Military Review

Konev and Zhukov were preparing a coup?

58
Konev and Zhukov were preparing a coup?

The first major biography of Marshal Konev claims the status of canonical


There were three of them - those to whom Stalin entrusted the capture of Berlin: Zhukov, Rokossovsky and Konev. The latter, according to the bibliography given by Sergey Mikheenkov, only in 2013, was awarded the first big biography (personal memoirs and memoirs of relatives do not count).

The Russian Planet, with the permission of the Young Guard publishing house, publishes a fragment of the biography of Marshal Ivan Konev written by Sergey Mikheenkov on the post-war relationship between Konev and Marshal Zhukov.

Among the military, we have long discussed one topic: the war is over, the work is done, the Boss is no longer needed, will bring closer and keep the most obedient and obsequious, the rest ...

And now Konev was called by the Deputy Minister of the Armed Forces of the USSR Bulganin and informed that it was urgent to fly to Moscow for a meeting of the Supreme Military Council. Konev’s relations with Bulganin were always complicated, and therefore he didn’t expect anything good from this call.

Whether Konev knew the agenda of the meeting of the Supreme Military Council is unknown. Apparently he soon found out. And consultations among the marshals, too, as you can imagine, took place. Otherwise, it is impossible to explain their fairly solid front, which they built during an attempt by party officials to destroy Marshal Pobeda Zhukov.

As you know, 31 May 1946, a few hours before the emergency meeting, a search was conducted at Zhukov's dacha. There is conflicting information about this event. Some biographers of Marshal Victory say that the search was conducted behind the scenes, that things were not withdrawn, but were only recorded in the list, which was then filed in the “Zhukov Case”. For a secret search, as you understand, the order was not issued because it was conducted not with the knowledge of the prosecutor, but with the knowledge of, most likely, Comrade Abakumov at the “request” of Comrade Stalin. Zhukov himself in his "Memories ..." told a completely different history: the search did not take place, because he threatened weapons and sent from his dacha "three good fellows" and so on.

But back to our hero.

Konev urgently flew to Moscow. 2 June 1946, Antonina Vasilievna, left alone at the resort in anxious anticipation, received a letter.

“Tony, honey! Yesterday the decision was made, and I was appointed instead of Zhukov. The owner offered to stay in Moscow and get to work. In this regard, you, my baby, also need to stop treatment, collect everything, pay for it, and go by car to Baden. There, in Baden, to load all valuables on the plane and fly to Moscow itself. In the plane, be sure to take my safe with documents, a suitcase with parade uniform, a suitcase with civilian suits and my jackets, a greatcoat. You will have a lot of trouble, but what should you do? Give my thanks to all the medical staff who treated and served us. Apparently, I will not come to Baden, and if I fly, I will call you in advance. Well, my dear, be careful and strict in everything. Miss you. I will wait for you with impatience. I kiss you tightly, your Vanya. "

And in Moscow, meanwhile, an event occurred that for almost seven decades, military historians and interpreters of Soviet politics of the second half of the 1940-s have been concerned.

The post-war policy of the country did not involve too much influence of the military. The war is over. Stalin no longer needed marshals and generals, especially those who knew how to take on a lot of responsibility and act independently, who felt the taste of this independence and power. Moreover, Stalin felt the danger emanating from them. The one whom he so elevated and generously showered with awards was especially dangerous, - Marshal Zhukov. George the Victorious, as he was sometimes called the environment. This was also reported to the leader.

Stalin himself led a meeting of the Supreme Military Council. He asked the Secretary of the Council, General Shtemenko, then the head of the Main Operations Directorate, to read out the interrogation materials of the Chief Marshal aviation Novikov, who was arrested in April and did his best to testify to the MGB investigators. The former SMERSH chief, and now the Minister of State Security, General Abakumov, daily reported to his "confessions" to the Boss.

When Shtemenko’s report sounded not only about Bonapartism Zhukov, but also about the fact that he was allegedly preparing a military conspiracy, the marshals realized that their hour had come. Today - Zhukov. Tomorrow - they are.

After General Shtemenko, Stalin spoke. He said that Zhukov appropriates all the victories of the Red Army, which, speaking at a press conference in Berlin, giving an interview for the Soviet and foreign press, “Zhukov repeatedly stated that all the main operations in the Great Patriotic War were successfully carried out because ideas were laid by him. "

Stalin pointed his finger at the former members of the Supreme High Command Headquarters and the members of the State Defense Committee, who now represented the Politburo and the Supreme Military Council, and said:

“So we were all fools?” Only one comrade Zhukov was clever, ingenious in planning all strategic operations during the Great Patriotic War?

Stalin ended his speech with this semi-rhetorical question, inviting all those present, including the marshals, to comment on Zhukov in order to "decide how to deal with him."

All those present understood that it would not be possible to get out of the show. Need to talk. And to speak means to express your position.

This is where the moment of truth came. The speeches were different in spirit and meaning. Some took a firm stand and, criticizing Zhukov’s personal human and business qualities, nevertheless recognized his military merit and loyalty to the party, to the government and personally to Comrade Stalin.

Most of the publications about this meeting say that, they say, the military did not give Marshal of Victory to be torn apart, and that the first deputy commander of the armored and mechanized troops, Marshal Rybalko, allegedly saved the word. It is true that Pavel Semenovich Rybalko spoke out resolutely for Zhukov’s political honesty, for acknowledging his many military merits. But the tone was set first by the speaker, Marshal Konev. And here we must be historically accurate. And what does it mean at such a meeting to say the first word across the word of the Host, it is hardly necessary to explain. No one has yet denied the accuracy of the atmosphere transferred to Konevoy, which reigned in the conference room, and the essence of what he said.

Konev said that Zhukov’s character was uneasy, "unsociable, difficult." He named flaws in the work of Zhukov, and then summed up:

“But if Zhukov was a dishonest person, he would hardly, with such perseverance, risking his life, follow the Stake’s orders, go to the most dangerous sectors of the front, crawl on his belly along the front line, watch the actions of the troops, assess the situation on the spot and help command in making certain decisions. A dishonest person, the more politically dishonest the Boe, will not keep himself that way!

Stalin suddenly realized that the situation was slipping from his hands. But he stood and waited for the end of speeches, without interrupting anyone. And only when the response word of repentance was given to Zhukov, did Stalin interrupt him and say, pointing his finger at Konev:

- Comrade Konev, he even assigned authorship to your Korsun-Shevchenko operation!

Throwing this remark, Stalin, of course, understood that he himself had taken a lot from him in order to give it to another, and when he got hot, he realized that his calculation that the Marshals Rokossovsky and Konev surrounded by Berlin triumph were above his hopes, Caucasian blown up: "He appropriated! .."


Broken German equipment at the site of the liquidation of the Korsun-Shevchenko group of Nazis. Photo: Alexander Kapustiansky / RIA News


But Stalin and this time was wiser than his innate rage, he gave way to the military. He yielded, knowing full well that it was precisely with this concession that he finally stopped the liberty of the marshals, that they were now in his fist. But the marshals felt their strength and the fact that the war was not over and we had to keep the powder dry.

Konstantin Simonov was interested in that meeting. Simonov’s record remained - the answer of Marshal Konev to his question: “... After all the speeches, Stalin spoke. He again spoke harshly, but somewhat differently. Apparently, at first he had a plan to arrest Zhukov after this Military Council. But, having felt our internal, and not only internal, resistance, having felt a certain solidarity of the military in relation to Zhukov and an assessment of his activities, he, apparently, oriented himself and retreated from his original intention. So it seemed to me.

In the defense of Zhukov in the same tone as Konev, were marshals Rybalko, Rokossovsky, Army General Khrulev.

On June 9, 1946, Stalin issued an order No. 009, with which he, in all likelihood, wanted to belittle the authority of Marshal Victory also among the troops. The order, among other things, included such words: “It was further established that the liquidation of the Korsun-Shevchenko group of German troops was planned and carried out not by Marshal Zhukov, as he stated about this, but by Marshal Konev, and Kiev was not released with a blow the south of the Bukrinsky bridgehead, as proposed by Zhukov, as a blow from the north, for the Stavka considered the Bukryn bridgehead unsuitable for such a large operation.

It was finally established that, recognizing the merits of Marshal Zhukov during the capture of Berlin, it cannot be denied, as Marshal Zhukov does, that without a strike from the south of Marshal Konev’s troops and a strike from Marshal Rokossovsky’s troops from the north, Berlin would not be surrounded and taken at that time in which he was taken.

Marshals Zhukov, Konev and Rokossovsky, really the most brilliant and talented commanders of the Great Patriotic War and the whole of the Second World War, are often called the three Russian heroes. In fairness, it should be noted that one of the Russian war marshals was a Pole. But that's not the point. All three glorified the Russian arms, raised the spirit of the Russian soldier and brought victory to the Russian people, who personified all the peoples of the USSR at that time. But they, the epic warriors - Ilya Muromets, Dobrynya Nikitich and Alyosha Popovich - did not always get along with each other.

But worse, they still had a relationship with the princes ...

In the 1947 year, on the very eve of his 50 anniversary, Konev received a letter from Podosinovets: countrymen in Lodeyno, in the house of his grandfather, Ivan Stepanovich Konev, decided to arrange a marshal's museum, asked him, so to speak, blessings. Konev answered his countrymen with a warm letter. He sent gifts: seven boxes of books for a rural library. And in the spring, to the sowing campaign, in the order of deputy assistance - a brand new truck. In the same device of the museum countrymen refused. Then he passionately wanted to serve, he saw ahead prospects, he felt his strength. A museum at home ... It would have gotten to Stalin. Yes, and in the Politburo people are different ... Do not.

Khrushchev will also confront Konev with Zhukov. And this clash will be more cruel and have very painful consequences for both marshals.

1957 year. Zhukov's popularity has increased again. Khrushchev, once saved by Zhukov from defeat in the struggle for power with the Malenkov-Molotov group, decided to weaken the influence of the military. Indeed, in the event of a new aggravation of the struggle for power, they could have taken not his side ... Khrushchev, in order to crush all the marshals and generals in one fell swoop, struck at the main one — Zhukov.

Konevu in this party drakke not lucky most.

After the plenum of the CPSU Central Committee, when the marshals, including Rokossovsky, and Zakharov, and Chuikov, and Eremenko, and Sokolovsky, unanimously condemned Zhukov as a "presumptuous Bonapartist", Konev had the "honor" to sign the article prepared in the Central Committee. It was called "Strength of the Soviet Army and Fleet - in the leadership of the party, inextricably linked with the people. ” It spoke of Zhukov's Bonapartism, his mistakes in work and, first of all, the underestimation of the party’s role in the army.

Of course, then and now, it does not matter who wrote this article. It is important - who signed. Konev this time gave way. Paradoxically, but as a politician Khrushchev in a similar situation turned out to be stronger than his predecessor Stalin. He led the intrigue in such a way that a newspaper with an article against Bonapartism, Marshal Zhukov, was published in the newspaper Pravda, signed by his deputy yesterday, the most reliable subordinate.

When the courier delivered the text of the article from the Central Committee, Konev sat over it all night. Rules agreed on the phone. Tried to soften. Delayed deadlines. Khrushchev was constantly reported on Konev's "author's torment." Nikita Sergeevich gloated: "Try, do not try, anyway the article will follow your signature."

After reading the signed version of the article, Khrushchev immediately called him:

- Tomorrow in Pravda read your article. And without tricks. Got it?

Zhukov was mortally offended. Konev also felt guilty. Both understood that politicians are stronger than them. Divide and conquer ... But the feeling of insult for some time proved to be insurmountable.

Once they met on the street. We talked. Zhukov said:

- Ivan Stepanovich, write a refutation.

- Georgy Konstantinovich, you understand that no one will print it. This is the decision of the party, and in our country it is the law.

But there is another version of this story. Some researchers admit that Zhukov and Konev were indeed preparing a coup in the country. They were supported not only by Shtemenko and Moskalenko, but also by many military men. Including in military units, in districts. They say that when Khrushchev, then still a benevolent Zhukov, grateful for his salvation during the Kremlin intrigue, complained that, they say, now I would bring order to the MVD, but there is no suitable person, Zhukov unexpectedly, with soldier directness, reported: "There is such a person ". - “Who?” - “My deputy is Konev”. It was here that Khrushchev found a bald spot, he realized that these two of him were being shoved into two accounts ... Khrushchev, who had a sense of conspiracy and a sophisticated conspirator himself, outwitted his real and potential adversaries.

And Konev, signing the article, in these circumstances, chose between life and death. In the most literal sense. He well remembered how Khrushchev dealt with Beria, Merkulov, Kobulov and others. He knew why General Sudoplatov was sitting in a madhouse. So it was decided for him: to be shot or not to be shot. Like the American-German-Japanese spy. A fool, like Sudoplatov, he will not pretend. I didn't want to lay my head on the scaffold.

But Konev’s letter to Zhukov was said to be all the same. Its text has not been published anywhere yet. Perhaps it will someday become part of the history of the relationship between these two generals. Their final reconciliation took place on Konev's 70 anniversary, in an apartment on Granovsky Street (now Romanov Lane), when all his comrades and friends came to congratulate the marshal.

As Natalia Ivanovna Koneva recalls, that evening the atmosphere of military fraternity reigned in their house. Zhukov was one of the first to congratulate Konev on his birthday. And they embraced. Everyone closely watched their movements, their faces, their remarks. And everyone breathed a sigh of relief. Konstantin Simonov, who was also sitting at the festive table, later wrote about Zhukov: “His invitation to this day, to this house, to his arrival there had a special meaning. Fate turned out that for many years Zhukov and the owner of the house were separated from each other by circumstances that were dramatic for both, for each in its own way. ”
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  1. invisibility
    invisibility 20 January 2014 10: 39
    +50
    Khrushchev, who had a flair for conspiracy and the sophisticated conspirator himself, outwitted his real and potential opponents here.
    A scoundrel and a coward! A petty and insignificant person! I understand that these are emotions, but he is a decent bastard ....
    1. Sasha 19871987
      Sasha 19871987 20 January 2014 10: 46
      +6
      invisible, agree
    2. Civil
      Civil 20 January 2014 10: 53
      +24
      The excellent military in Russia cannot survive as politicians, due to the presence of principles, honor and dignity. Thugs use these qualities as a weak spot.
      1. apro
        apro 20 January 2014 11: 40
        +20
        Great military men should first of all be engaged in military affairs and carry out tasks and not go wherever their dog did not poke. By and large, our military men broke so much firewood during that war that it was not in vain that IVStalin said that the winners can and should be judged. that gods over IVS Stalin have over the Soviet people in the country that there are fewer problems to admire them? Ambition is a useful thing, but duty and honor are more important for a soldier.
        1. Alekseev
          Alekseev 20 January 2014 14: 13
          -1
          Quote: apro
          The military leaders imagined themselves gods over IVS Stalin over the Soviet people

          Painful perception of reality.
          No one imagines himself to be any gods.
          Soviet marshals were flesh from the flesh of their people and did not meddle in politics, like Bonoparte.
          Maybe in vain, it would be worse than Nikita and Beria they would not be.
          1. apro
            apro 20 January 2014 15: 50
            +11
            Quote: Alekseev
            Soviet marshals were flesh from the flesh of their people and did not meddle in politics, like Bonoparte.

            And participation in the coup in June 53 related to the assassination of the LPBeria by the command of the Moscow Air Defense District.
          2. wax
            wax 21 January 2014 01: 31
            0
            There was a day in the history of the USSR when it was necessary to take power into our own hands - in August 1991. I think that Zhukov would have decided.
        2. Sakmagon
          Sakmagon 20 January 2014 14: 34
          +24
          The military leaders imagined themselves gods over IVS Stalin over the Soviet people in the country ...

          - this first effect after reading this opus. There was only one such "eagle", for which it was eventually removed. Do not All smear with shit.
          Now let's take a closer look:
          There were three of them - those to whom Stalin entrusted the capture of Berlin: Zhukov, Rokossovsky and Konev.
          Rokossovsky was just pushed away from the capture of Berlin, Zhukov was put in his place. And Konev was "turned over" to Berlin, after Stalin realized that Zhukov was bogged down in the super-powerful defense of Berlin, and the "allies" were in a hurry. It was after this that Zhukov began to "play" that he was the only one who took Berlin, for which Konev publicly almost stuffed his face ... So Konev and Zhukov did not have a good relationship.
          By the way, Zhukov had no good relations with anyone, the wrong person was ...
          Okay, we go further. The wife received a letter ...
          Yesterday a decision was made, and I was appointed instead of Zhukov ... The landlord proposed to stay in Moscow and get to work. In this regard, you ... need ... to go by car to Baden. There, in Baden, to load all the valuables on the plane and fly to Moscow myself ... I probably will not come to Baden, and if I fly, I’ll call you in advance.

          And how long did it go? With the order "you have to" ... and the phones no longer work? "Take the safe" .. yeah ... favorite accordion and cranberry basket ....
          Some researchers admit that Zhukov and Konev were indeed preparing a coup in the country.

          Khrushchev and Zhukov carried out the coup, and then one ate the other, that's all. And the rest of the arguments from the series "They say when Khrushchev"
          In short, an article from: "FRESH FOOD, YES GRAY WITH LABOR"...
      2. vladimirZ
        vladimirZ 20 January 2014 14: 50
        +7
        I consider the most objective additions to the article a complete order to remove Zhukov from the posts of Commander-in-Chief and Deputy Minister of the USSR Armed Forces, signed by I.V. Stalin.
        ORDER OF THE MINISTER OF ARMED FORCES OF THE UNION OF THE SSR No. 009 June 9, 1946
        Moscow Top Secret
        Council of Ministers of the USSR by decree of 3 June p. approved the proposal of the Supreme Military Council of June 1 for the release of Marshal of the Soviet Union Zhukov from the post of Commander-in-Chief of the Ground Forces and by the same resolution freed Marshal Zhukov from his duties as Deputy Minister of the Armed Forces.
        The circumstances of the case are as follows.
        The former commander of the Air Force Novikov recently sent a statement to the government against Marshal Zhukov, in which he reported on the facts of unworthy and harmful behavior on the part of Marshal Zhukov in relation to the government and the Supreme High Command.
        The Supreme Military Council at its June 1 meeting. considered the statement Novikov and found that Marshal Zhukov, despite the high position created by him by the government and the Supreme Command, considered himself offended, expressed dissatisfaction with the decisions of the government and spoke hostilely about him among his subordinates.
        Marshal Zhukov, having lost all modesty, and being fascinated by a sense of personal ambition, believed that his merits were not sufficiently appreciated, attributing to himself, in conversations with subordinates, the development and conduct of all major operations of the Great Patriotic War, including those operations to which he had nothing to do.
        Moreover, Marshal Zhukov, being himself angry, tried to group around himself the disgruntled, failed and suspended from the work of the chiefs and took them under his protection, thus opposing himself to the government and the Supreme Command.
        Being appointed commander-in-chief of the ground forces, Marshal Zhukov continued to express his disagreement with the decisions of the government in the circle of people close to him, and some of the government’s measures aimed at strengthening the combat effectiveness of the ground forces were regarded not from the point of view of the interests of the defense of the homeland, but as measures aimed at infringing on him , Zhukov, personality.
        Contrary to the statements by Marshal Zhukov outlined above at the meeting of the Supreme Military Council, it was found that all plans for all major operations of the Patriotic War, without exception, as well as plans to ensure them, were discussed and adopted at joint meetings of the State Defense Committee and members of the Stavka in the presence of the relevant front commanders and staff of the General Staff, and often the chiefs of the armed forces were involved in the case.
        1. vladimirZ
          vladimirZ 20 January 2014 14: 59
          +4
          continuation of the order of Stalin I.V.
          It was further established that he had nothing to do with the plan for the liquidation of the Stalingrad group of German troops and the implementation of this plan, which Marshal Zhukov ascribes to himself: as you know, the plan for the liquidation of German troops was developed and the liquidation itself was started in the winter of 1942, when Marshal Zhukov was on another "front, far from Stalingrad.
          It was found, further, that Marshal Zhukov was also not related to the plan for the liquidation of the Crimean group of German troops, as well as to the implementation of this plan, although he attributed them to himself in conversations with subordinates.
          It was further established that the liquidation of the Korsun-Shevchenko group of German troops was planned and carried out not by Marshal Zhukov, as he declared this, but by Marshal Konev, and Kiev was not released from the south, from the Bukrinsky bridgehead, as Marshal Zhukov suggested, but a blow from the north, for the Stavka considered the Bukrinsky bridgehead unsuitable for such a large operation.
          It was finally established that recognizing the merits of Marshal Zhukov during the capture of Berlin, it cannot be denied, as Marshal Zhukov does, that without a strike from the south of Marshal Konev’s troops and a strike from the north of Marshal Rokossovsky’s troops, Berlin would not have been surrounded and taken at that time, in which he was taken.
          Towards the end, Marshal Zhukov said at a meeting of the Supreme Military Council that he had really made serious mistakes, that he had the arrogance, that he certainly could not remain as commander in chief of the land forces and that he would try to eliminate his mistakes at another place of work.
          The Supreme Military Council, having examined the issue of the behavior of Marshal Zhukov, unanimously recognized this behavior as harmful and incompatible with its position and, on this basis, decided to ask the Council of Ministers of the USSR for the release of Marshal Zhukov of the post of Commander-in-Chief of the Ground Forces.
          The Council of Ministers of the USSR, on the basis of the above, adopted the above decision on the release of Marshal Zhukov from his posts and appointed him commander of the troops of the Odessa Military District.
          This order shall be declared commander in chief, members of military councils and chiefs of staff of groups of forces, commanders, members of military councils, chiefs of staff of military districts and fleets.
          The Minister of the Armed Forces of the USSR Generalissimo of the Soviet Union I. STALIN

          APRF. F.45. Op. 1. D. 442. LL. 202-206. Script.
          Published: Military History Journal, 1993, No. 5.
        2. captain
          captain 4 February 2017 13: 19
          0
          Regarding the signature of Konev under the letter, I will answer the words of the young Platov: "Honor, more precious than life." And the act of General Karbyshev, but could save his life and leave for a neutral country. It all depends on education and fortitude.
      3. Cherdak
        Cherdak 20 January 2014 19: 55
        +1
        Quote: Civil
        Great military men in Russia cannot survive as politicians, due to the presence of principles, honor and dignity.



        Ek, you are bent. Or is it by analogy with Kasparov (amers-Fisher)? A brilliant chess player and useless politician? In Ukraine, now this is a great boxer trying to crank.
      4. StolzSS
        StolzSS 20 January 2014 20: 45
        +1
        Yes sir. I know such politicians ... famously they get it alas (((
    3. Khrushchev
      Khrushchev 20 January 2014 11: 27
      .
      Yes, in the Donbass they don’t do such things anymore. Yanukovoshch can’t even be compared.
      But Khrushchev is proud of all Ukraine vid Syanu to Don
      1. RBLip
        RBLip 20 January 2014 12: 23
        +6
        Quote: Khrushchev
        But Khrushchev is proud of all Ukraine vid Syanu to Don

        no offense. but you have a nickname ... as if a Colorado potato beetle with a boot is a khrushch !!!
      2. andrejwz
        andrejwz 20 January 2014 13: 05
        +6
        Quote: Khrushchev
        But Khrushchev is proud of all Ukraine vid Syanu to Don

        To be ashamed would be more true. Is it not from there that the ears of your current problems grow.
      3. Panikovsky
        Panikovsky 20 January 2014 13: 57
        +1
        Quote: Khrushchev
        Yes, in the Donbass they don’t do such things anymore. Yanukovoshch can’t even be compared.
        But Khrushchev is proud of all Ukraine vid Syanu to Don

        it seems so to you.
      4. Ihrek
        Ihrek 20 January 2014 14: 45
        0
        Quote: Khrushchev
        Yes, in the Donbass they don’t do such things anymore. Yanukovoshch can’t even be compared.
        But Khrushchev is proud of all Ukraine vid Syanu to Don

        They are a brace.
      5. The comment was deleted.
      6. 11111mail.ru
        11111mail.ru 20 January 2014 17: 14
        +1
        Quote: Khrushchev
        Khrushchev is proud of all Ukraine vid Syanu to Don

        So what? Viisko Donskoe tezh in Ukraine, chi no? Don't bother slut halich! Don-Ivanych "Ukrainian-polskim" NEVER WILL BE!
    4. Cherdak
      Cherdak 20 January 2014 19: 50
      +2
      Quote: invisible
      A scoundrel and a coward!


      Bastard then he, bastard, and so smeared the Boss that until now all writers can not resist such pearls: "Stalin this time was wiser than his innate rage"Here and the" swift jack "is liquid pale.
  2. NAV-STAR
    NAV-STAR 20 January 2014 10: 40
    +4
    It is difficult to assess the affairs of victory marshals from their current positions, but there is no smoke without fire.
    1. Aryan
      Aryan 20 January 2014 11: 30
      +6
      example from my life
      my friend dad was a Soviet tanker
      they are from Russian Germans
      So, we always met on New Year’s
      and under the chiming clock, the first toast with Uncle Zhora was always for Zhukov and Victory
      then matyuki met clowns and p *** comrade pop
      they took a bottle of vodka and went to the kitchen to chop in dominoes
      under the knock of knuckles and the roar of petradast outside the window
      also raised for Marshal
      It was my best unforgettable New Year's Eve.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. AK-47
      AK-47 20 January 2014 13: 02
      +4
      Quote: NAV-STAR
      It is difficult to assess the affairs of the marshals of victory from the current position ...
      + + + + + + + +
      The truth of the events of the war dies on the battlefield!
      1. Corsair5912
        Corsair5912 20 January 2014 16: 27
        +2
        Quote: AK-47
        The truth of the events of the war dies on the battlefield!

        Glory is the sun of the dead.
        A man who is eager for glory in his lifetime, can be posthumously posthumous.
  3. erased
    erased 20 January 2014 10: 44
    +17
    Strange stuff. Here it is advisable to familiarize yourself with the documents. And beware of the word authors beware. As soon as they didn’t spit on Stalin and Zhukov, another little change in their direction. But questions on the material remain.
    1. Khrushchev
      Khrushchev 20 January 2014 11: 15
      .
      Quote: erased
      Stalin and Zhukov

      to put on one board the person who saved the Soviet Union in 1941 and the half-educated seminarian who had corrupted everything at the beginning of the war can only be completely inadequate
      1. svp67
        svp67 20 January 2014 11: 27
        +27
        Quote: Khrushchev
        to put on one board the person who saved the Soviet Union in 1941 and the half-educated seminarian who had corrupted everything at the beginning of the war can only be completely inadequate

        If it weren't for this "dropout", the "savior" WOULD NOT DO ANYTHING ... The fact that people went into battle "For Stalin" and not "For Zhukov" is worth a lot ... Not to mention such particulars as the organized evacuation of production and the establishment of production in the depths of the country ... Yes, a lot of things that the "dropout" did ...
        1. Khrushchev
          Khrushchev 20 January 2014 12: 56
          .
          for this very adjustment, the chairman of the USSR State Planning Committee Voznesensky received gratitude from the comrades of the Georgians in the form of a bullet in the back of the head in 1950 ...
      2. mak210
        mak210 20 January 2014 11: 36
        +11
        Who is this hinting at? On the Chief of the General Staff Shaposhnikov or Defense Minister Zhukov? Who, being military specialists or considered to be such, sang the famous song: "Everything is fine, beautiful marquise ..." Or maybe on Konev, who drove the 19th army into an encirclement near Smolensk, abandoned his troops without control and left alone almost in civilian clothes by tearing off the shoulder straps. Or a half-educated seminarian who created (by order of the military, of course), by exerting all the forces of the country, multiple superiority in all types of mobile warfare?

        I also don’t remember who was the representative of the rate on the failed Western front in the early days of the war. But definitely not shot Pavlov.
      3. erased
        erased 20 January 2014 11: 38
        +9
        For "Khrushch" - Sir, you made the wrong site. Liberasts, tolerasts and others are a handful of other resources.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. 11111mail.ru
            11111mail.ru 20 January 2014 17: 43
            +2
            Quote: Khrushchev
            the leash used a burnt-out counter which any decent comrade immediately put to the wall.

            So what does it mean your relatives on the paternal and maternal side in the role of "decent! Comrade?" did this? Where did such skills come from in the practice of working r "g" of the evolutionary t "r" ibunal?
          2. The comment was deleted.
      4. alone
        alone 20 January 2014 11: 54
        +10
        Quote: Khrushchev
        put on one board the man who saved the Soviet Union in 1941


        this savior, as chief of the General Staff, lost the first months of the war and would have continued to lose if he had not been sent to the front.
      5. smersh70
        smersh70 20 January 2014 14: 21
        +6
        Quote: Khrushchev
        the half-educated seminarian who had failed everything at the beginning of the war can only be completely inadequate

        I didn’t understand whether Stalin had to train personnel or generals. why the NKVD troops were highly trained and even occupied cities on foreign territory, and entire motorized corps were regained by the regiments. Stalin's business was to figure it out, so he figured it out , gradually leading to leading cadres of real specialists.
        and in 41 USSR saved the Soviet people under the leadership of Stalin, restraining the enemy from the last forces
      6. 11111mail.ru
        11111mail.ru 20 January 2014 17: 36
        +1
        Quote: Khrushchev
        can only complete inadequate

        A question from what you think, in the Western way, from you designated as "inadequate" (also, by the way, some kind of Newspeak!): Who are we so-called? "Inadequate" put on the board?
        http://www.rudata.ru/wiki/Высказывания_Черчилля_о_Сталине
        September 8, 1942 - Speech in the British Parliament following a visit to Moscow in August 1942:
        "Russia was very lucky that when it was in agony, it was led by such a tough military leader. He is an outstanding personality, suitable for harsh times."
        Dear, about G.K.Zhukov from W. Churchill do not share a quote? Just do not be at ease, reset the link. People will check.
      7. invisibility
        invisibility 20 January 2014 20: 08
        0
        Khrushch, you have seen enough of Fedka's "Stalingrad", may people forgive me for such a neighborhood, or that they used more heavily?
    2. Colonel
      Colonel 20 January 2014 12: 05
      +1
      Quote: erased
      Strange material
      Put it mildly. For such a question - frivolous, at the level of OBS (one grandmother said). I recommend to those who are interested in this moment of our history to read V. Karpov's "The Opal of Marshal Zhukov" and K. Simonov "Through the eyes of a man of my generation." And opinions, and links, and names.
    3. RBLip
      RBLip 20 January 2014 12: 26
      +2
      Quote: erased
      Strange stuff. Here it is advisable to familiarize yourself with the documents. And beware of the word authors beware. As soon as they didn’t spit on Stalin and Zhukov, another little change in their direction. But questions on the material remain.

      I completely agree! without documents, you can pull such tales ... they say Konev is an alien from Alpha Centauri. he now steers in the USA, Snowden has everything ... (you can think of such garbage, oohokh)
    4. Panikovsky
      Panikovsky 20 January 2014 15: 04
      +4
      Quote: erased
      Strange stuff. Here it is advisable to familiarize yourself with the documents. And beware of the word authors beware. As soon as they didn’t spit on Stalin and Zhukov, another little change in their direction. But questions on the material remain.

      and watch out correctly. the article is like from the Spark of the times of V. Korotich, when pseudo-historical sensations were spied on a weekly basis, posing as the ultimate truth.
    5. The comment was deleted.
    6. Deniska999
      Deniska999 20 January 2014 18: 53
      +2
      It is a pity that Stalin did not shoot Khrushchev.
  4. svp67
    svp67 20 January 2014 10: 56
    +14
    Now it is very difficult for us to understand THEM, WHO HAVE DONE BIG BUSINESS ... One thing I can say is that no matter who says what, but then the "people's servants" were more STATE GOVERNMENTS, that is why the country developed and all its inhabitants lived better every year and better ...
  5. family tree
    family tree 20 January 2014 11: 06
    +1
    People! What kind of car in the photo on which the DShK is (or similar to the DShK what ), with a cross, killed.
    1. Committee
      Committee 20 January 2014 11: 16
      +2
      Sd Kfz 250 "Alte" armored personnel carrier
    2. not good
      not good 20 January 2014 11: 29
      0
      This is a German armored personnel carrier Sd Kfz250 Gerat892 although it may be 893 very similar in appearance
      1. Committee
        Committee 20 January 2014 11: 31
        +1
        No, this is "Alte" - diamond-shaped board. "Gerat" has a straight board.
        1. family tree
          family tree 20 January 2014 12: 40
          +2
          Yeah, thank you, I found a tip
  6. creak
    creak 20 January 2014 11: 07
    +1
    But they say the letter of Konev Zhukov was - who says, but few people talk about anything ... This also applies to other statements and assumptions of the author. In support of any version, one must still rely on facts, and not on rumors more like gossip ... Not seriously, all this is somehow ...
  7. Vladimir.z.
    Vladimir.z. 20 January 2014 11: 10
    +1
    Quote: NAV-STAR
    It is difficult to evaluate the affairs of the marshals of victory from the current position, ....


    Quote: erased
    Here it is advisable to familiarize yourself with the documents ....


    Of course, I would like to know everything, but memoirs and documents carry a certain subjectivity of those who wrote these memoirs and those who prepared documents .... But as they say a lot is seen from a distance, we can definitely say that despite the difficult personal relationships in the leadership of the country and the army at that time, the Soviet Union won the war and began to reckon with it. And this is a big + !!!
  8. predator.3
    predator.3 20 January 2014 11: 13
    0
    The main merit of Zhukov was that in the 41st Leningrad and Moscow defended, and Konev was saved from the fate of the gene. Pavlova, and Stalin (headquarters) managed to organize the evacuation of industry, establish the release of military equipment and prepare reserves, and of course the further strategic planning of the war, Zhukov also played an important role here, but after the war, of course, many marshals and generals leapfrogged, I’m not myself ... and as for junk, it’s not just Zhukov who took trophies out in wagons, and mostly furniture, rags, dishes! not paintings (like Vasiliev) or gold with pebbles.
    And there was no conspiracy, not against Stalin, nor against Khrushchev.
  9. Sergey Medvedev
    Sergey Medvedev 20 January 2014 11: 19
    +1
    Another attempt to muddy the victorious marshals. Personally, I’m much more interested in the real affairs of these people in the war, their invaluable contribution to the Victory, than the backstage intrigues of politicians. From this article carries a swamp, minus her.
    1. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 20 January 2014 20: 35
      +4
      Zhukov doused himself with mud so that he could not wash himself with anything. A coup, but in favor of Khrushchev ... Khrushchev was a gifted, straightforward genius, about such Vysotsky said "a black light is burning in their souls." Whatever Khrushchev did, everything destroyed the USSR and hurt the people, absolutely everything! Even corn ... what would seem more harmless ?! In dozens of regions of the country, still reeling from hunger, zoned varieties of cereals were handed over to the blanks under the panicle! And corn did not grow (it itself needs to be zoned for decades) and the harvests have disappeared. And you can go on like this endlessly, whatever the fool does, he does everything wrong!
      And Stalin felt sorry for his marshals. Oh, and in vain he felt sorry for them, oh, in vain! The military is not a political figure. Never. Never. A military man should not even allow thoughts of governing a country as a civilian about command of a front. A lot of the driver will command? How much blood will be shed? Wild, right? Nevertheless, with manic persistence, the top military commanders begin to judge and argue how they will equip Russia!
      But military thinking is unsuitable for civil administration. Entirely and completely unsuitable, the military relies on a country that he did not completely build, since a builder is made of it like a bullet of shit, I'm sorry. Even the engineering troops are not at all that a civilian SMU, and the approaches, goals, and methods are completely different. Stalin grew old, relaxed, I already wanted peace ... Well, here he is the result, look around. That’s all that surrounds us. We must thank Zhukov and Khrushchev. How, let us give a bow to the Marshal of Victory, who did not give up fighting both within his country and among the highest authorities? Oh ...
  10. pahom54
    pahom54 20 January 2014 11: 27
    +7
    Intrigues at the top, the struggle for power were, is and will be ... And the fact that the general secretaries and the presidents appoint "their" ministers of power structures on the basis of loyalty to them - it was, is and will be ...
    The problem of the military in politics is straightforwardness, a sense of pride and honor - that is, those factors that are not inherent in "professional" politicians (both former and current). Even modern history of Russia proves that a military man in politics is nonsense, if he starts to cut the truth, or try to do "the right thing" - he is removed.
    Always with personal resentment, I perceived the change of General Gromov, who, in my personal opinion (and it may be subjective), went into the service of current politicians (therefore, he stayed on the governor's stool for so long). But such as Rokhlin, Swan and others - they kill, plant ...
    Now it’s not for us to judge such quantities as Marshals Zhukov and Konev. I think that if they started a coup, they started it as patriots of their country, and not like traitors, so I repeat once again - it's hard to judge.
    Only here articles of this type seem to me rather suspicious, provocative. It seems to me that they belong to the category of "works" of Viktor Suvorov and others like him "historians-researchers" - to denigrate at least something great people of USSR_Russia, thereby belittling their role in its history, and, naturally, crossing out, destroying distorting Russian history.
    Yes, Zhukov killed many people, was cruel. But at that time, such a person and with such a character was needed. And now there is nothing to obs..it them, the current (or rather, the former) Taburetkin-Serdyukov is worthy of a positive mention in history ???
    We will not talk about the CPSU, it has long been gone. And now what, if the military does not agree with EdR’s decisions in some way - he’ll be in place ...
    He always said and believed that politics is a dirty business, and for the military - like Russian frost for the Germans and French.
    1. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 20 January 2014 17: 51
      +2
      Quote: pahom54
      here such as Rokhlin, Swan and others - kill, plant

      I will subscribe for General L.Ya. Rokhlin, but a hero, a real soldier! But the second - this is my personal opinion, this was Yeltsin's singing along (1995 elections, surrender to the Chechens).
  11. Committee
    Committee 20 January 2014 11: 29
    0
    It should be added that they were very different people, they had more different than general, character - especially. It is unlikely that they could be united by anything other than service, but rather not.
  12. Khrushchev
    Khrushchev 20 January 2014 11: 40
    -7
    but what Zhukov himself says. http://lib.rus.ec/b/150413/read
    Simultaneously with the announcement of the resolution of the Central Committee Plenum, an article about Marshal KONEV was published in the press about me, full of idle fabrications and slanderous attacks.

    KONEV impressed me with his unscrupulousness.

    As you know, KONEV was my first deputy. He had to replace me at least three months a year as Minister of Defense, therefore, very often I had to carry out all the basic tasks that the Ministry of Defense had, daily contacting them with the Central Committee and the Government. And I do not know the case when he would have a special point of view from me on all fundamental issues. He often boasted that for many years of working together we had developed a common point of view on all the basic issues of the construction and training of the armed forces.

    As an old political worker, I appreciated KONEVA and listened to his advice on training personnel and practical issues of party political work.

    KONEV often assured me of his constant friendship.

    However, here he is frankly disingenuous. Between Zhukov and Konev there has always been a rather strained relationship; this is marked in his memoirs by almost all military commanders of that time. Konev’s support during the time of Stalin was caused by the need for self-preservation in the fight against Stalin's executioners. Konev was an intelligent and decisive person, and understood perfectly well that if Zhukov was blamed, then his personal fate would most likely be exactly the same as that of most marshals who supported the execution of Tukhachevsky — that is, he would end on the chopping block.
    1. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 20 January 2014 17: 52
      0
      Quote: Khrushchev
      what Zhukov himself says. http://lib.rus.ec/b/150413/read

      This is in what revision in order of the revision inserts?
  13. moremansf
    moremansf 20 January 2014 11: 42
    0
    There are a lot of articles on this issue, opinions are contradictory, where it is true and where fiction is not clear ... we need documents, but as I understand it, the deadline has not yet arrived, they are in the archives, so we will wait for the true version of these events based on facts .. . although there is no smoke without fire ...
  14. bistrov.
    bistrov. 20 January 2014 12: 02
    0
    There was constant friction between the two marshals Zhukov and Konev. Zhukov himself does not say anything about this, but this can be understood from his "Memories and Reflections." For example, Alex Gromov writes about this in his documentary novel about Zhukov. There is evidence from other sources The friction began during the Second World War, after the war they only intensified. The latter terribly envied Zhukov and considered himself undeservedly bypassed by fame and awards. Stalin, who after the war no longer needed authoritative experienced marshals, especially Zhukov, tried to eliminate them, but from he didn’t manage to do it to the end, but still he partially humiliated and disgraced them. Also, Khrushchev, who was a good psychologist, used this in his accounts with Zhukov, who did not put him into anything, considering him a stupid upstart. But Khrushchev was able to use Zhukov for his own purposes, for example, to eliminate Beria, and then settled with Zhukov Yes, politics is a very dirty business, there are no friends and relatives, there are only temporary allies, from whom one should always expect a knife in the back.
    1. creak
      creak 20 January 2014 12: 34
      +8
      It seems to me that neither Zhukov nor Konev - they both suffered from an excess of modesty ... In this regard, KK Rokossovsky, who made no less contribution to the Victory, was never noticed by anyone in sticking out his own merits ... And One cannot even speak of his purely human qualities, few of our military leaders treated subordinates with such respect and enjoyed their reciprocal love. He never intrigued and simply fulfilled his duty as a Soldier ... Perhaps that is why he did not have any lost battles, even in the initial period of the war, the victories were simply brilliant (Bagration’s one operation is worth it) ...
      1. Ivan Petrovich
        Ivan Petrovich 20 January 2014 15: 03
        +5
        Comrade Stalin valued Rokossovsky above all. Put him in first place. This is a known fact.
    2. creak
      creak 20 January 2014 12: 34
      +4
      It seems to me that neither Zhukov nor Konev - they both suffered from an excess of modesty ... In this regard, KK Rokossovsky, who made no less contribution to the Victory, was never noticed by anyone in sticking out his own merits ... And One cannot even speak of his purely human qualities, few of our military leaders treated subordinates with such respect and enjoyed their reciprocal love. He never intrigued, but simply fulfilled his duty as a soldier and had the courage to defend his point of view at any level, including Stalin. Perhaps that’s why he didn’t have any lost battles, even in the initial period of the war, the victories were simply brilliant (Bagration’s one operation is worth it) ...
    3. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 20 January 2014 17: 56
      0
      Quote: bistrov.
      Between two marshals ... You should always expect a knife in the back.

      Is this a brief retelling of the article’s article content by you? Thank you, I do not need help, I read above in full!
  15. AlexxxNik
    AlexxxNik 20 January 2014 12: 03
    +5
    A search and inspection at the dacha of the former Commander-in-Chief of the group of Soviet occupation forces in Germany, "Marshal of Victory" G.K. Zhukov revealed, in particular:

    "... Two rooms of the dacha have been turned into a warehouse, where a huge amount of various goods and values ​​is stored. For example: woolen fabrics, silk, brocade, pan-velvet and other materials - over 4000 meters in total; furs - sable, monkey, fox, seals, astrakhan, astrakhan fur - only 323 skins; top quality chevro - 35 skins; expensive carpets and tapestries of large sizes exported from Potsdam and other palaces and houses in Germany - only 44 pieces ... valuable paintings of large classical painting in artistic frames - only 55 pieces, hung in the rooms of the cottage and partially stored in a warehouse; expensive sets, dining and tea utensils (porcelain with artistic decoration, crystal) - 7 large boxes; silver sets of cutlery and tea utensils - 2 boxes; accordions with rich artistic decoration - 8 pieces ; unique hunting rifles from Holland-Holland and others - only 20 pieces ...
    The whole atmosphere, from furniture, carpets, dishes, decorations to curtains on the windows - overseas, mainly German. In the country, there is literally not a single thing of Soviet origin, with the exception of the paths lying at the entrance to the country. There is not a single Soviet book in the country, but in the bookcases there are a large number of books in fine bindings with gold stamping, exclusively in German. Having entered the house, it is hard to imagine that you are near Moscow, and not in Germany ...
    ... 70 valuable gold items (pendants and rings with precious stones, watches, earrings with diamonds, bracelets, brooches, etc.), 740 silverware and silverware items, and moreover, another 30 kilograms of various silver items ... "

    8 accordions in the room ... I can imagine how Marshal Zhukov sits Shiva on the carpet number 3 in Germany and stretches 16 accordions with his 8 hands and sings his Red Army ditties.

    The search protocol was signed by Minister of State Security of the USSR Abakumov on January 10, 1948.

    about drove off operatives with a pistol, then the beetles shy
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas 20 January 2014 12: 41
      0
      Quote: AlexxxNik
      about drove off operatives with a pistol, then the beetles shy

      Well, in hindsight, he was very brave, and the balabol was still the same. The example with the Korsun-Shevchenko operation is still so-so, he appropriated the Stalingrad operation for himself, and most Russians really consider him the author, they say he developed and carried out, even the journalists attribute it to him. And even here they write about the "savior of Moscow and Leningrad" ...
      1. bistrov.
        bistrov. 20 January 2014 21: 56
        0
        Quote: Nayhas
        And even here they write about the "savior of Moscow and Leningrad" ...

        Whatever it was there, but it was Zhukov Stalin who sent to the most critical areas. And Stalin was well versed in people. Yes, Zhukov was terribly proud and stubborn, had developed strong-willed qualities, and this was noted in all his characteristics as a flaw, but on the other hand it only benefited his commanding qualities. But apart from all this, Zhukov possessed and developed strategic thinking, intuition. Yes, he was not an intellectual; by the style of his leadership, he remained a royal non-commissioner, but he won! And whom? The best experienced German field marshals with higher academic education. Zhukov also had a parish village school, two classes of a real school and a half-year non-commissioned officer school. True, he completed several Red Army advanced training courses. But there was no question of any fundamental education there. But he studied a lot and persistently on his own, studied and analyzed all the battles of World War I, studied the works of military theorists. They wouldn’t say anything there, but this man was in his place and went down in history as the winner of fascism, it was he who accepted the capitulation of fascist Germany.
  16. Andrey Ulyanovsky
    Andrey Ulyanovsky 20 January 2014 12: 22
    +7
    The editing and interpretation of the events of OUR history is engaged in by anyone who is not lazy. How long? According to observations, now the stream is going to denigrate all the events of the life of the USSR and World War II - and they wanted to attack - Hitler got ahead (fabulist Rezun), and the marshals of Victory were completely ghouls and the soldier’s life was never put up, and fascist Germany was filled up with corpses - they never knew how to fight, and the Allies' contribution to the defeat is so great that the USSR would die, etc., etc.
    Black and white people write and shoot videos - not historians with a name, not archival workers, not eyewitnesses of events - but ANYONE who thinks he is a connoisseur, and in 100% of cases if they refer to that - so on Wikipedia, where any, excuse me, a dropout student can edit and write an article independently. THIS IS NORMAL????
    The law should be promulgated on criminal liability and prosecution of persons INTENTIONALLY distorting historical facts and treating them.
    What pleases is that there are more and more people thinking, looking for documents and reading.
    It's not about the article above, it’s boiling up.
  17. vlad.svargin
    vlad.svargin 20 January 2014 12: 41
    +1
    Whatever they write about these marshals now, we must not forget that it is they and other commanders led by Stalin IV. liberated our Earth and Europe from the fascist predator.
    And we must keep a bright memory of them. And we must not forget that THEY were also people with their minor flaws, which are NOTHING compared to what they left us. And, God forbid, that our Army would correspond to the WWII Victory Army, despite the recent collapse of its liberals (the fifth column of the West) to please our overt and implicit enemies.
  18. Normal
    Normal 20 January 2014 13: 13
    +3
    Just the opinion of the author. Perhaps something coinciding with the true state of affairs, or maybe not. That we will never know. The author is clearly admired by Zhukov, sympathetic to Konev and with a considerable share of negativity to Stalin. All three had strengths, there were flaws, and there were failures. The number of skeletons in the cabinet of the marshals is hardly less than that of Stalin. Suffice it to recall Rzhev.
  19. Khrushchev
    Khrushchev 20 January 2014 13: 34
    -6
    Quote: Andrey Ulyanovsky
    Black and white people write and shoot videos - not historians with a name, not archival workers, not eyewitnesses of events - but ANY who thinks he is a connoisseur, and in 100% of cases, if they refer to that, it’s Wikipedia, where anyone, excuse me, a dropout student can write an article and edit and write yourself. THIS IS NORMAL???

    Before proving with unsubstantiated language, first learn the language of a potential adversary.
    From 2 February, as the Chief of the General Staff, and Deputy Minister of Defense of the USSR, Zhukov took part in drawing up the "Strategic plan for deploying of the Soviet Union in the case of war with Germany and its allies" [24 ] The plan was completed no later than 15 May 1941. In this document, one paragraph states:

    Germany is mobilizing most of its army to the border and actively building its reserves. That fact warns us that a surprise attack may take place. In order to prevent this, I suggest it is necessary to take the strategic initiative against the Third Reich in any case, including forestalling the enemy and deploying a pre-emptive offensive against the German units when we definitely verify the time when they will attack. We must ensure they have no time to prepare in order to create an advantage in combat power

    from there
    Zhukov predicted that the Soviet-German war could not be avoided and that the Red Army needed to build independent motorized and tank units to satisfy the new conditions of the expected war. His suggestions, however, were not accepted by Soviet leaders. When war broke out, the harsh reality of the battlefield painfully proved the correctness of most of Zhukov's ideas about the role of tanks and motorized units in modern warfare

    especially for uneducated can translate
    1. Colonel
      Colonel 20 January 2014 14: 11
      +1
      Quote: Khrushchev
      I suggest it is necessary to take the strategic initiative against the Third Reich in any case, including forestalling the enemy and deploying a pre-emptive offensive against the German units when we definitely verify the time when they will attack. We must ensure they have no time to prepare in order to create an advantage in combat power

      And what is it for? Rezun's laurels do not give rest?
      1. Khrushchev
        Khrushchev 20 January 2014 21: 37
        -1
        and you are a crafty zvizdyuk. So if by chance cut off the top of the quote. But it is precisely thanks to such conjuncturers and propaganda ... that the Rezun-Suvoro closed up the kasa.
        If the idiological department of the CPSU Central Committee did not pose as holy purity, but simply honestly told about the situation that developed before the war when "gunpowder seriously smelled in Europe" and the fact of the impending war became absolutely clear even to idiots like Stalin. In such conditions, the preparation of war, at least, does not look sensational, but should be taken seriously and we understand its inevitability as a necessity due to the need for physical survival ...
    2. negeroi
      negeroi 20 January 2014 15: 04
      0
      Those. you just need to persuade? And you do not immediately agree? What you are however mysterious.


      Okay Damn linguistic persuaded-Translate Pra-a-ativny!
      1. Khrushchev
        Khrushchev 20 January 2014 21: 26
        -1
        Quote: negeroi
        Okay Damn linguistic persuaded-Translate Pra-a-ativny!

        especially for a particularly advanced case of PGM -
        Germany is mobilizing most of its army to the border and actively building its reserves. That fact warns us that a surprise attack may take place. In order to prevent this, I suggest it is necessary to take the strategic initiative against the Third Reich in any case, including forestalling the enemy and deploying a pre-emptive offensive against the German units when we definitely verify the time when they will attack. We must ensure they have no time to prepare in order to create an advantage in combat power

        Germany draws most of its armies to the border and creates reserves for them. This fact warns us that a surprise attack may take place.
        In order to prevent such a situation, I suggest it is necessary to take a strategic initiative in relation to (against) the 3 Reich in any way (in any case). Including anticipation of the enemy and the development of preventive defense against the German troops when we definitely make sure that (when) they are going to attack (they will attack). We must be sure (to make sure) that they will not have time to fame superiority in combat power.
        As we see from the specialists from the General Staff of Yusovshchyna there is no doubt whatsoever about the mental abilities of the Chief of the General Staff of the Red Army. Moreover, the avaricious quote quoted above shows what the USSR was in real situation, but the local sublimies of Stalin will still prove. That the USSR did not have plans for a war against Germany because the world may friendship with Hitler, and Stalin is a chenius of all time. Well, to print
        Zhukov predicted that the Soviet-German war could not be avoided

        Zhukov predicted that war was inevitable. But it turned out, as always, everything exactly according to Dzhugashvili’s sudden abasratushki
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Andrey Ulyanovsky
      Andrey Ulyanovsky 20 January 2014 17: 34
      +1
      I also speak English fluently. What does the quote you quoted say? More about the illiteracy of American translators who cannot even correctly translate the title of the UNSIGNED G.K. Zhukov ONLY copy of the document "Considerations according to the plan for the strategic deployment of the forces of the Soviet Union in case of war with Germany and its allies. "

      Inaccuracies in translation from Russian and in the above translation of the paragraph of Considerations:
      In total, Germany and its allies can deploy up to 240 divisions against the USSR. Given that Germany is currently keeping its army mobilized, with its rear deployed, it has the ability to warn us of deployment and deliver a surprise strike. To prevent this, I consider it necessary in no case to give initiative to the German Command, to forestall the enemy in deployment and attack the German army at a time when it will be in the deployment stage and will not have time to organize the front and cooperation of the armed forces.

      The stubs of phrases you cited (by the way, as I said - without source) allow us to talk about "unsubstantiated fluttering of the tongue" ??? What are you talking about???
  20. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 20 January 2014 13: 46
    +3
    As always, no references to documents, no references to cases, or recorded words of witnesses. Only rumors, speculation and copyright interpretations. The history of the country is written by anyone, whatever they want. The most interesting people hawala everything that they don’t write.
    In addition, as we all know, Zhukov’s patron was the victorious George, who granted him all the victories and kept him from all troubles. The fact that Konev’s heavenly patron, who granted him all the victories and protected the marshal, was not indicated and not mentioned, causes bewilderment and suspicion that the author did not study the hero’s life sufficiently deeply. He’ll invent such a thing that the marshal was an atheist. How can you trust him after that. If this goes further, we will someday read that the victory was not due to, as everyone knows, the icon of the Kazan Mother of God and contrary to Stalin, but due to some kind of heroism of the people under the leadership, as everyone knows, of the criminal government and party.
  21. negeroi
    negeroi 20 January 2014 14: 59
    +1
    Article ... as an article. Doubtful? Yes. So they are all doubtful. A dude found a letter and suck it out from various sources. And not from the worst sources. But .. building a version based on a letter does not contain anything and all sorts of accents set. And then Zhukov, and Stalin dreamed about that. In general, so this little article, on the C grade. On the other hand, the dude didn’t seem to utter a swear, didn’t call him names, he didn’t confuse the right with the left, it’s already a plus.))
  22. Shadowcat
    Shadowcat 20 January 2014 15: 12
    +8
    They wrote all sorts of nonsense already disgusting. If you want ideal people, read the biography of Eisenhour, MacArthur, Lee Grand, and with Bushev you probably need to write an iconostasis ... oh, they seem to have a closet that’s not open from the skeletons and it's scary to dig the garden. So what am I ... what the hell do you climb with your dirty hands into our pure and holy? The war was won by the Soviet People who were led to victory by the leader of the peoples, Comrade I.V. Stalin, with the help of his generals, who later became marshals.
    Do you think that an American suffering from cirrhosis of the liver got so cool and defeated everyone? No answer anyone - this is a movie.
    Or the crowd broke in and defeated everyone? No, they will answer again - after the invention of the machine gun, crowd attacks became insane and useless.
    Any normal person will answer that they need to win: a carefully planned operation, provided with everything necessary (you won’t believe the army needs not only tanks, planes and rifles, but also simple dratva and threads, not to mention food), an army and a united people. Without the first, the army turns into a crowd, without the second the army will be incapacitated, without the last the army will not receive anything and it will not make sense to defend.
    Get your dirty hands away from our Great Patriotic War! If you want stories, first publish about your family. And there it turns out that the grandfather cut his throats in his own dark alleys and you can dig up many more skeletons. Why won't the jek do this, huh? I don’t rush my skeletons into my eyes, and is it better to hide in the darkest closet, and pour better people with mud?
  23. demotivator
    demotivator 20 January 2014 15: 21
    +11
    ... Stalin this time turned out to be wiser than his innate rage

    This line alone causes complete disgust and unwillingness to continue reading the article further. How could this Sergei Prostakov know such subtleties of Stalin's character as to blatantly ascribe to him "innate rage"? By analogy, I can assume that the author himself is innate, mixed with cretinism, caveman anti-Stalinism and anti-Sovietism. Well, what else is there, but a whole bunch of all sorts of other "isms".
    Thank you for not giving up Stalin's wisdom at least. I had to read what his contemporaries thought about Stalin, those who, together with him, forged victory over German and European fascism. And none of them noted "innate rage" in him. Where did this little mongrel get this?
    Now about the "Marshal of Victory", I'm not specifically about Zhukov, but about the term. Neither immediately after the war, nor for a long time afterward, there was no such thing as a "Victory Marshal" at all. Because during Stalin's life, and after his death, everyone understood well who actually forged victory. And it never occurred to anyone to attribute it to someone else. Because all the marshals of the USSR, and such at the time of Germany's surrender, equally made their worthy contribution to the Victory. And who tried, like Zhukov, to appropriate only to himself personally all the successes in the war (and war trophies at the same time), then his comrades, just like him, no less tinned marshals and generals, quickly pointed to the place. It was only later that the enemies of the USSR, anti-Stalinists, began to exorbitantly inflate the figure of only Zhukov, belittling or keeping silent about the role and importance of other commanders in the war. Tell me, isn't Marshal Rokossovsky drawn to "Marshal of Victory"? He spent less time at the front than Zhukov, less than he carried out victorious operations? Just compare such data - from the first to the last day of the war, Rokossovsky actually commanded the troops - armies and fronts, while Zhukov most of the time during the war was just a representative of the Supreme Command Headquarters, i.e. high-ranking adjutant to Stalin. He only carried out orders from Headquarters, go there and do this, and also make sure that everything was done correctly. Here are all the features. Well, where can you show your talent for a commander? Carry out other people's decisions (Stakes) and orientate yourself to subordinates - is this a military leadership? Let me remind you that even the headquarters was not assigned to the Headquarters representative - not a great figure, not independent means. And after the war, many marshals were out of work. Peaceful time has come, a massive reduction of the army has begun. A significant part of the officer corps, especially among those who before the war were agronomists, teachers, accountants, engineers, etc. and became officers already at the front, easily found a place for themselves in a peaceful life. But it was not so with the marshals - each of them has a lot of ambitions, and there are few high military posts - you cannot attach all of them with defense ministers. So all sorts of grievances, grief began, and then some were drawn into conspiracies - also from resentment at injustice. I understand, "Marshal of Victory" and me for looting in some Odessa district commander (!!!). Not to the camp on the bunk - but to the commander! Well, something like this.
    1. S_mirnov
      S_mirnov 20 January 2014 15: 25
      +1
      Very sensible comment! Thank.
      For those who want to plunge into the atmosphere of those times, I advise you to read the book by Y. Mukhin "USSR named after Beria".
  24. demotivator
    demotivator 20 January 2014 15: 37
    +3
    And more about Zhukov, as long as we were talking about him. What do we know about the defense of Leningrad? Usually, the Germans almost took him from Marshal Voroshilov, but the hero Zhukov arrived and defended Leningrad. But who knows that Zhukov was not going to Leningrad with this task?
    On September 8, the Germans broke through to Lake Ladoga, took Shlisselburg and thereby completely blocked Leningrad from land. On one side of the corridor occupied by the Germans up to 20 km wide were the troops of the Leningrad Front, on the other - the troops of the 54th Army. On the same day, G.K. Zhukov was appointed commander of the Leningrad Front and took command on September 10. At the same time, Marshal G.I. Kulik joined the command of the 54th Army.
    Zhukov was tasked not only to keep the city from being captured, but, until the Germans had created a defense around the city, to release it — to break through towards Kulik. And Kulik was tasked to break through to meet Zhukov. This is a very important point!
    But, as a result of the fact that this order of the Stavka was not executed, in the very first blockade winter in the city more than 700 thousand people died of starvation. You can immediately say who is to blame for the fact that Leningrad did not break the blockade in September 1941 - G.K. Zhukov. This can be confidently said on the basis that neither in the History of the Second World War, nor in the short course Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union, there is a word about this operation. The Great Patriotic War encyclopedia is also silent. And Zhukov himself in his “Memoirs and Reflections” speaks of anything in connection with Leningrad, but not about that. To be absolutely precise, in the version of his memoirs of 1972, in the chapter “From Yelny to Leningrad”, there is only one line about the 54th army: “K. E. Voroshilov September 11 on the instructions of I. V. Stalin flew into the 54th army of Marshal G. I. Kulik. " And that’s all.
    This, incidentally, is not the only unsuccessful operation of the Soviet troops under the leadership of G.K. Zhukov, which was erased from the pages of our military history. Everyone knows the operation "Uranus" - an operation to encircle German troops near Stalingrad. But who has heard of Operation Mars? And it, under the leadership of Zhukov, was carried out simultaneously with the operation "Uranus" and was called the Rzhevsko-Sychevskaya operation (not to be confused with the Rzhevsko-Sychevskaya operation in the summer of 1942). If near Stalingrad 1,1 million people, 15,5 thousand guns, 1,5 thousand tanks and 1,3 thousand aircraft were concentrated for the operation "Uranus", then 1,9 million people, 24 thousand guns, 3,3 thousand tanks and 1,1 thousand aircraft were allocated for Operation Mars.
    Commanding Operation Mars, G.K. Zhukov lost half a million people and all tanks, but did not achieve success.

    But back in 1941 to the Leningrad Front.
    Having taken the front on September 10, Zhukov concentrated all his efforts to fight off the "eight regiments of rabid Germans" (as in his memoirs) from the south, and he simply was not able to organize a breakthrough towards Kulik. Perhaps he calculated that he was personally responsible only for the defense of Leningrad, and he was responsible for the deblockade along with Kulik.
    Now let Kulik himself break through. And then, perhaps, he reasoned that, they say, Stalin would not allow Leningrad to remain in blockade, and he would find troops for this somewhere. And Zhukov concentrated his troops only to fulfill his narrow task - to prevent the Germans from breaking into the city from the south, on a front section of about 25 km. To do this, he had the 42nd, 55th combined arms armies, all the artillery of the Baltic Fleet, 125 thousand sailors ashore, 10 divisions of the national militia, etc. And Kulik on the same front would break into Leningrad from their 8th divisions.
    Two days after Zhukov took command of the Leningrad Front, the Germans stopped storming the city and the main force of the German strike by the time described was directed to the 54th Army of G.I. Kulik, and not to Zhukov's troops.
    1. Shadowcat
      Shadowcat 20 January 2014 17: 12
      +2
      Quote: demotivator
      But who has heard of Operation Mars?

      Many have heard. Operation Mars can now be viewed from several angles. But first of all, with a strategic one.
      Do not forget that this enemy group threatened Moscow, and Hitler did not lose hope of taking it, so he kept an attack group there in order to use and take the capital at the slightest opportunity.
      Also, do not forget that two fronts, and even more so two operations, are difficult to sponsor, all the more so since the country's border guard fell and recovered, but not enough to ensure two operations at once.
      Thirdly - the Blood of the war, Oil, was in the USSR only in Baku and its loss would be the strongest blow from which it was possible to recover vryatli.
      If we consider these operations separately, then naturally there may be an opinion about the defeat in one. BUT. But first, the Germans had a ghost of a defeat in the winter of 41 years near Moscow, and where is the fact that the USSR will not be able to give them another gift?
      But secondly - Operation Mars fettered a large group of enemy shock - German divisions dragging them into battle during Operation Mars. By the way, it is worth noting that at first a distracting or secondary blow is applied so that the enemy concentrates his main forces on him, allowing the main blow to pass with less resistance.
      Most likely the Germans considered that the attack from Stalingrad was distracting (Operation Uranus began on November 19), and when the second attack hit them (Operation Mars, November 25), they considered that the Russians were trying to move their troops away from the capital (Hitler was a fad on her capture) and threw all their strength into holding their positions near Moscow, but they could not send reserves to Paulus in large numbers or transfer their shock and most powerful divisions there.
      As a result, the defeat of the millionth enemy group, the 6th army was destroyed, which took Paris, France (a big blow to the reputation) and the supply of the cross on the possibility of the capture of Baku oil by the enemy. As you can see, not everything is so simple.
      Also read about the unfamiliar operation that you are talking about.
      http://liewar.ru/epizody-vojny/203-operatsiya-mars-i-sovremennye-marsiane.html
    2. Colonel
      Colonel 20 January 2014 17: 27
      0
      Quote: demotivator
      But back in 1941 to the Leningrad Front.

      On the day when Zhukov accepted the Leningrad Front, Halder wrote in his diary:
      "On the front of Army Group North, significant successes were noted in the offensive against Leningrad. The enemy is beginning to weaken ..."

      Entry September 13:
      "Leningrad has made significant progress. The withdrawal of our troops to the inner side of the fortifications can be considered complete."

      And on September 23 (not two days later), he wrote the following in his diary:
      "In the area of ​​Lake Ladoga, our troops advanced slightly and,
      apparently suffered heavy losses. For the defense of forces here is quite enough, but for a decisive defeat of the enemy, they probably will not be enough. "

      And September 25:
      "Day 24.9 was an extremely critical day for OKW. This was due to the failure of the 16th Army offensive near Lake Ladoga, where our troops met a serious enemy counteroffensive, during which the 8th Panzer Division was thrown back and the occupied area on the eastern bank was narrowed. Not you".

      And a little about Kulik - on September 20, Stalin sent him (Kulik) a telegram:
      "On these two days, on the 21st and 22nd, it is necessary to make a gap in the enemy's front and unite with the Leningraders, and then it will be too late. You are very late. We must make up for the lost time. Otherwise, if you are still late, the Germans will have time turn every village into a fortress, and you will never have to unite with the Leningraders. "

      Need to comment something?
      And last but not least, I want to quote Simonov’s words with which he describes his impressions of watching Keitel at the time of signing the unconditional surrender:
      Watching him during the surrender procedure, I several times saw with what close attention he was following Zhukov, namely and only him. It was the bitter, tragic curiosity of the vanquished for the force that Zhukov personified here, as the force most hated and most deciding the outcome of the war.
  25. demotivator
    demotivator 20 January 2014 15: 48
    +2
    Order of the Minister of Armed Forces of the USSR

    9th of June 1946
    № 009
    Moscow
    The Council of Ministers of the USSR with a resolution of June 3, p. G. Approved the proposal of the Supreme Military Council of June 1 to relieve Marshal of the Soviet Union Zhukov from the post of commander in chief of the Ground Forces and by the same decree relieved Marshal Zhukov of his duties as deputy minister of the Armed Forces.
    The circumstances of the case are as follows.
    The former commander of the Air Force Novikov recently sent a statement to the government against Marshal Zhukov, in which he reported on the facts of indecent and harmful behavior on the part of Marshal Zhukov in relation to the government and the Supreme High Command.
    The Supreme Military Council at its meeting on June 1, p. d. He examined this statement by Novikov and established that Marshal Zhukov, despite the high position created by the government and the High Command, considered himself offended, expressed dissatisfaction with the decisions of the government and spoke hostilely about him among his subordinates.
    Marshal Zhukov, having lost all modesty and being carried away by a sense of personal ambition, believed that his merits were not sufficiently appreciated, while attributing to himself in conversations with his subordinates the development and conduct of all the main operations of the Great Patriotic War, including those operations for which he had no relationship.
    Moreover, Marshal Zhukov, being embittered himself, tried to group around his discontented, failed and suspended bosses, and took them under his protection, thus opposing himself to the government and the Supreme High Command.

    Being appointed commander-in-chief of the Ground Forces, Marshal Zhukov continued to express his disagreement with the decisions of the government in the circle of people close to him, and some of the government’s measures aimed at strengthening the combat effectiveness of the ground forces were not regarded from the point of view of the defense of the Homeland, but as measures aimed at infringing on him , Zhukov, personality.
    Contrary to the statements made by Marshal Zhukov above, it was established at a meeting of the Supreme Military Council that all plans for all significant operations of the Patriotic War, as well as plans for their support, were discussed and adopted at joint meetings of the State Defense Committee and members of the Stavka in the presence of the respective front commanders and chief staff of the General Staff, and often involved in the work of the chief of the armed forces ...
    .... It was finally established that, recognizing the merits of Marshal Zhukov during the capture of Berlin, one cannot deny, as Marshal Zhukov does, that without a strike from the south of Marshal Konev’s troops and a strike from the north of Marshal Rokossovsky’s troops, Berlin would not have been surrounded taken at the time in which it was taken.
    At the end, Marshal Zhukov said at a meeting of the Supreme Military Council that he had really made serious mistakes, that he had arrogance; that he, of course, cannot remain on the post of commander in chief of the Ground Forces and that he will try to eliminate his mistakes at another place of work. The Supreme Military Council, having examined the issue of the behavior of Marshal Zhukov, unanimously recognized this behavior as harmful and incompatible with its position and, on this basis, decided to ask the Council of Ministers of the USSR to relieve Marshal Zhukov from the post of commander in chief of the Ground Forces.
    The Council of Ministers of the USSR, on the basis of the above, adopted the above decision on the release of Marshal Zhukov from his posts and appointed him commander of the troops of the Odessa Military District.
  26. demotivator
    demotivator 20 January 2014 15: 57
    +5
    Protocol of interrogation of the arrested C AND D N E V A Aleksey Matveevich
    from 6 February 1948 of the year
    SIDNEV L.M., born in 1907,
    native of the mountains. Saratov
    with incomplete higher education,
    member of the CPSU (b) since 1931.
    Former chief of the operational sector of the Ministry of Internal Affairs in Berlin.
    Last time he worked as Minister
    State Security of the Tatar Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic,
    Maj.-Gen.
    ... ANSWER: - I am guilty of the decomposition of my subordinates and this, of course, significantly affected the operational work. But again, to a considerable degree, SEROV is to blame for this, who almost did not manage me, being, as I have already shown, busy with personal affairs ...
    ... SEROV and ZHUKOV often visited each other, went hunting and provided mutual services. In particular, on behalf of SEROV, I had to transfer to the car repair workshops subordinate to me, sent by ZhUKOV for remaking three daggers, which belonged in the past to some German barons.
    A little later, a crown was sent from Zhukov to me, belonging in all respects to the wife of a German Kaiser. Gold was removed from this crown for finishing the stack, which ZhUKOV wanted to present to his daughter on her birthday.
    (Interrogation interrupted.)
    The protocol is written down from my words correctly, I read it.
    Sidnev

    Necessary comment - I understand Zhukov's fatherly love for his daughter and his desire to give her an expensive gift. But why should he do it at someone else's expense? Is such a valuable military trophy as the crown of the spouse of the German Kaiser his personal property? And then, isn’t this crown itself an invaluable work of art, which has a place in some museum of the USSR, and isn’t that wild savagery — to spoil it to finish the stack - the usual whip? And is it really that the daughter of the marshal has already gotten bored with riding a horse without a precious stack?
    And we are racking our brains, where do we get such @ ki as the mistress Seryukova - Vasilyeva. Yes from there!
  27. demotivator
    demotivator 20 January 2014 16: 04
    +5
    Quote: Khrushchev
    especially for the uneducated I can translate

    Do not. The uneducated will somehow get by with the Russian language. It's a pity that the site's rules do not allow using it in all its glory in order to send the "educated" to their rightful place - at the bucket.
  28. rate
    rate 20 January 2014 16: 12
    +5
    Quote: invisible
    Khrushchev, who had a flair for conspiracy and the sophisticated conspirator himself, outwitted his real and potential opponents. A scoundrel and a coward! A petty and insignificant person! I understand that these are emotions, but he is a decent bastard ....

    It is necessary to clearly realize that without the roof of the military (Zhukov first of all) Khrushchev would not have done what he did. He killed Stalin and Beria. And Malenkova with all the other members of the Politburo frightened it with the support of the military. How can this be arranged in the center of Moscow (when Beria was killed) in July 1953? Yes, there is nothing to be done there without a direct order of the marshals. And there was a questionnaire sent out in 52 to the districts in 51 with a survey as officers (each) and under what circumstances he met on June 21, 1941. And the answers were interesting .... That's where the legs grow about the Soviet Union's unpreparedness for war. To hide their jambs (Beetles). And this legend (Stalin, unprepared for war and forbade us) still lives on. And he was in 41 direct sabotage. In general, there is not just everything. Dig and dig. The author very vainly drives Stalin.
  29. So_o_tozh
    So_o_tozh 20 January 2014 16: 16
    0
    And when it would be possible to open archives on the 2nd WWII, I wonder? To analyze the pros and cons of all battles, operations, honestly admit losses ... identify the perpetrators for repentance ... In a word, create a real encyclopedia without censorship.
    1. user3970
      user3970 30 November 2016 11: 38
      0
      Not under the current president. Access to the archives of the Ministry of Defense of the RF Armed Forces located in the city of Podolsk is closed, an "audit" is being carried out, the destruction of documents allegedly not of interest.
  30. Corsair5912
    Corsair5912 20 January 2014 16: 18
    +6
    Among the military, we have long discussed one topic: the war is over, the work is done, the Boss is no longer needed, will bring closer and keep the most obedient and obsequious, the rest ...

    Another liberal spit in Stalin.
    If Stalin surrounded himself with lackeys, it would not have been possible to make the country a Great Power. Konev, Zhukov, Rokosovsky were not angels and were mistaken, but they did not go down to infamy, people of the wrong level.
    All this rat fuss of commanders for prestige and career, allegedly former in the USSR, was invented by liberals, commissioned by sworn enemies of Russia.
    An article from a series of dirty slander, an example of obshraniya winners of fascism.
  31. 11111mail.ru
    11111mail.ru 20 January 2014 18: 09
    +3
    The article stretches not even on a weak "C grade", but right on the ch "flax. However, the comments of the majority of colleagues place the correct accents in the understanding of the read" reading matter. "And the mishandled" kOzachki "or simply in Russian KOZLY failed to persuade the discussion of an openly weak article to condemn “each other.” Discussions are a big PLUS, an article is a BIG MINUS.
  32. konvalval
    konvalval 20 January 2014 20: 08
    +2
    Yes, they blamed everything on Stalin. And this specialist in the undercover fight has done so much harm to the country that it seemed to no one. Crimea, aviation, corn, subsidiary plots of peasants, etc., etc. I remember how his rural workers hated.
  33. Power
    Power 20 January 2014 22: 02
    +1
    Our power pygmies in comparison with people who were before, the scale is different, so it’s difficult to judge actions. Some now sell for a pair of sneakers and the ability to twist their home arrows.
  34. Pohmelniy
    Pohmelniy 21 January 2014 07: 10
    +1
    Quote: Khrushchev
    Khrushchev

    Khrushchev - there is a fat troll zaregis in order to throw shit on the fan. And thickly trollite, very thick. Do not pay attention to him, do not feed him.
  35. Cherdak
    Cherdak 21 January 2014 14: 16
    +1
    Just every December 9, silently raise 100 grams for an extraordinary person.
  36. Akuzenka
    Akuzenka 8 February 2017 16: 09
    0
    Author. You would like the liberoids to sell the article, as they would rejoice. Since an article under the heading "opinions", then my opinion - an article - is a poor fantasy. A fantasy cutter, very similar. He also invented "historical" dialogues.
  37. core
    core 27 February 2017 10: 49
    0
    no matter what the military talents of our generals were, but politically they were short-sighted and weak. and about Stalin’s desire to arrest Mr. Zhukov, stupidity and liberal notions from history. Stalin is hundreds of times smarter than these idiots of publicists.