Military Review

Musabaev: “We would like Russia to stay at Baikonur forever”

334
Musabaev: “We would like Russia to stay at Baikonur forever”

On the eve of the New Year, the governments of Russia and Kazakhstan agreed on a “road map” on the use and development of the Baikonur cosmodrome complex and the city of the same name. The head of the National Space Agency of the Republic of Kazakhstan, Talgat Musabayev, told Izvestia correspondent Ivan Cheberko what the rules would be for the planet’s largest space launch center to begin operating and operating from the beginning of 2014.


- Talgat Amangeldievich, are you satisfied with the Baikonur road map signed between Kazakhstan and the Russian Federation? Are the interests of Kazakhstan taken into account in the document?

- The adoption at the intergovernmental level of the “road map” on Baikonur is a big step in the development of partnerships. This step was given to us, frankly, not easy - with those who led the Russian Space Agency in previous years, we sometimes could not agree on very simple questions for many years. Now relations have become significantly better, I want to thank the new head of Roscosmos Oleg Ostapenko and Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin for their constructive approach. Finally, we managed to enter the territory of our own cosmodrome located in our country. Before that, the conversation was short: “We’re not empty, that's all, a secret object.” What's so secret about that? If that was, then now everyone knows everything. There were phrases about the observance of the non-proliferation regime of rocket technologies, but this is mostly an excuse.

- You say that you were not allowed to the cosmodrome. But at the same time, “Kazakhstan Garysh Sapary”, back in 2011, received permission to increase its stake in Kosmotras, an operator of launch services for Dnepr missiles. And the shareholders of the International Space Services Company, which leases the starting position for Zenit, were ready to sell you even a controlling stake in the company. Consequently, Kazakhstani structures could enter the launch services market even without an interstate agreement ...

- Against these transactions Roscosmos objected. The former management of the agency did everything possible to keep us out of Baikonur. Without the consent of Roskosmos, without guarantees of the continuation of programs along the same Dnipro, without reaching mutual understanding in matters of price policy, the acquisition of shares did not make sense, it would be money thrown to the wind. But I persistently raise the topic of Cosmotras at every meeting with Russian colleagues. To date, there is an agreement on the parity participation of Russia, Ukraine and Kazakhstan in the authorized capital of Kosmotras, each of the founders will have 33,3% of shares. However, the situation with Dnipro is not clear now. There is no official paper from the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, which would guarantee the continuation of the conversion program for these missiles. Dmitry Rogozin promised to provide such paper. As soon as the paper is ready, we will immediately launch the stock repurchase process.

- Can we say that relations between Kazakhstan and Russia on Baikonur and all space issues have warmed over the past year?

- Can. Now we have agreed on a “road map” that we have been preparing for the year. How did we cook it? You’ll write something, propose it, send it to Moscow, that is, to Roscosmos. Whatever you write, everything is wrong, nothing suits. Ostapenko appeared - everything immediately became so. Everything is the same, but everything is so. What can I say? Apparently, the point is not in some serious disagreements between the allied states, but in the position of individual officials. The human factor - as they say in aviation.

- What activities are provided for by the “roadmap”?

- The changes will affect the launch facility for Zenit carriers and the city of Baikonur itself. In fact, we agreed on the mode of their sharing and maintenance. We agreed and recorded on paper that the project to create the Baiterek rocket and space complex will be implemented using the Zenit launch vehicle. Until January 2015, this complex will be taken out of the lease of Russia and transferred to Kazakhstan, which will bear the cost of maintaining it - about $ 10 million. This, however, is about the joint use of the complex, not that we will independently work there and missiles run. We realize that today it is impossible. We also plan to upgrade Zenith in the future in order to create a heavy-class rocket based on this complex, so that it can later replace Proton. We also agreed to work out the possibility of co-creating a light-class rocket for Baikonur.

- To make a heavy class rocket out of Zenit means creating a new rocket ...

- No, you do not need a new one; deep modernization will make a heavy-class rocket, theoretical studies are already there. Modernization is planned by us for 2020 – 2022 years.

- Does it bother you that Russia, more precisely, the Russian company, has the Sea Launch complex, which also works with Zenit? Will there be excessive competition in the launch services of the same rocket?

- We still do not fully understand what will happen to the Sea Launch, the situation here is not clear for us, we will talk about this. Moreover, the Sea Launch, now owned by RSC Energia, has exclusive marketing rights for the Zenit rocket. Here still to understand and understand. But the main thing is that the decision as a whole has been made, and we will be able to agree on the details later.

- Literally on the eve of the signing of the Baikonur agreement, Dmitry Rogozin said on Russian TV that already in 2018, a manned spacecraft was launched from the East, and on the Angara rocket. Did you have a conversation about these plans with your Russian colleagues? Yet the topic directly concerns Baikonur ...

- I would not like to touch on the Eastern theme, this is absolutely not my diocese. Due to the fact that I still have some idea of ​​cosmonautics, I can assume: such statements are nothing more than a desire to improve the negotiating position with Kazakhstan.

- What are the plans of Kazakhstan to develop the launch services market?

- Our country plans to become a space power. Now we will launch rockets together with Russia. And they would like to do it together in the future. Neither I nor any sane person in Kazakhstan wants Russia to leave Baikonur. We are partners and allies, and for such a level of interstate cooperation it is normal to have joint strategic projects. If Russia ever wants to leave Baikonur, we would not want the spaceport to die. We will do everything we can to Baikonur and continue to be the gateway to space, we will implement the space program on our own. But I’ll stress: we would like Russia to always remain at Baikonur.

- In addition to the rocket theme, Kazakhstan is developing other areas of space activity. Tell about them.

“Within the framework of the national space program, we are creating a communication and broadcasting system based on KazSat satellites — now the Reshetnev ISC is finishing work on the third device, it is planned to be launched next April. At the same time, Kazakhstan specialists are teaching and practicing at Reshetneve. The ground control segment of the devices has already been created, equipped and staffed by our specialists. By launching KazSat-3, we plan to complete the formation of our own telecommunications satellite system.

Another area of ​​relevance for us, as the ninth country in the world in terms of area, is the area of ​​activity — the creation of a satellite system for remote sensing of the Earth. This project is implemented by the state-owned company “Kazakhstan Garysh Sapary” in collaboration with EADS Astrium, which is building one unit for us. Another satellite is being made by the British company SSTL. I can say that a state-of-the-art optical-electronic remote sensing system is being created, only a few states have such now.

We are also completing the construction of a high-precision satellite navigation system. We in 2008 year concluded an intergovernmental agreement on the sharing of GLONASS, and then began to create ground infrastructure, focused on the use of two systems - GLONASS and GPS. This is a network of differential correction stations that allow us to have highly accurate data. The project is implemented by “Kazakhstan Garysh Sapary” and the National Center for Space Technology in Almaty, which united a number of strong scientific organizations that remained from the times of the USSR. The 50 differential stations have already been installed, next year the system will be fully equipped and will begin operation. A maritime local differential station was commissioned near the city of Aktau on the Caspian Sea.

The building of the National Space Center of Kazakhstan has almost been built, where remote sensing services will be based, high-precision positioning, and there will still be a center for the production of spacecraft. This is our joint venture with EADS, we will learn to create satellites ourselves. Production of this level is not available anywhere else in the CIS; there will be a full cycle - from the idea to the finished, already tested apparatus. We have already agreed with the ISC Reshetnev on the formation of a community of enterprises - we want to create production cooperation in the future in order to mutually complement each other.

- What changes for the city of Baikonur are provided for by the “road map”?

- These changes will affect mainly the citizens of Kazakhstan. More subdivisions of the authorities of the Republic of Kazakhstan will appear in the city, which will provide public services on Kazakhstan legislation. We fundamentally agreed on the need to resolve the issue of applying the administrative legislation of the Republic of Kazakhstan to Kazakhstan citizens at the Baikonur complex. On this issue will be a special agreement. As you know, in 2008, the issue of the application of the criminal law of Kazakhstan was resolved. These issues have long prevented us in due time from ratifying the agreement to extend the lease of Baikonur to 2050.

At Baikonur, there will finally be an opportunity to train children in schools in Kazakhstan’s education standards and issue Kazakhstan-style education documents. Now, even in the Kazakh schools of the city of Baikonur, education is carried out according to Russian programs, according to Russian textbooks translated into Kazakh. Earlier it came to the fact that Kazakhstani children learned from these textbooks that our homeland is Russia, the capital is Moscow.

Also, Kazakhstan will now participate in the development of the infrastructure of the city of Baikonur, including helping the city with kindergartens and other social facilities. Polyclinic, school, hospital have already been built. Agreed on the need to develop business activities in the city of Baikonur. It was also agreed that the cellular companies of Kazakhstan will now be able to work at Baikonur.

- Could not before?

- No, only Bee Line and MTS were. Others were not allowed.

- Will the implementation of the plans set out in the “road map” somehow affect the main lease agreement for Baikonur by Russia before 2050?

- Now this is not a question. The “road map” was taken to solve the accumulated problematic issues and continue to continue long-term mutually beneficial cooperation. I can assure you that if the agreements reached will be implemented, no one will raise this issue.

- The amount of rent will not change?

- This issue has not been discussed. It should be understood that $ 115 million is a rather symbolic amount, it does not reflect any objective parameters. So at one time the heads of state agreed - Nursultan Nazarbayev and Boris Yeltsin. And since then, to discuss this amount has not been returned. I feel right. It is clear that $ 115 million 20 years ago and now is a different money. But the question of the cost of renting was never the main thing for us.

- Is the Proton missile theme sensitive for both Russia and Kazakhstan reflected in the Road Map?

- According to "Protons" the question is always acute. We already have an “anti-heptyl” society here. At the Russian Embassy stand with posters. When did it happen that they stand in Kazakhstan at the Russian embassy? We understand that in the near future, Russia will not be able to abandon the Protons. Alright, let them fly. But at least let them not fall! The “Protons” roadmap contains the following: “Preparation of recommendations on the number of launches of Proton-M launch vehicles from the 2016 year in order to reduce the environmental burden on the environment of the Republic of Kazakhstan”.

- The formulation is streamlined.

- It is important that the question is raised, there is a solution to it. On a further agreement.

- Was it possible to solve the issue of the selection of the RF fields of incidence for parts of the rockets that bring satellites to a solar-synchronous orbit?

- Fundamentally yes. As soon as a protocol on additions to the agreement on the Baiterek project concerning the use of Zenith launch vehicles is signed, we will immediately sign an agreement on the allocation of a new area of ​​incidence.
Author:
Originator:
http://izvestia.ru/
334 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 18 January 2014 15: 26
    +44
    It should be understood that $ 115 million is rather a symbolic amount, it does not reflect any objective parameters.
    Not a fig, symbolic, for a piece of bare steppe. But another thing is alarming, the idea that it seems nice to us to stay there, sounded only after Russia began to actively build the Vostochny spaceport. Geographically and geopolitically, Baikanur is more convenient, but I would like confidence in the future, because he needs a major modernization, and this is not cheap. The same as making repairs in a rented apartment - you will invest the money, and they will ask you to release her tomorrow, or they will raise the rent. hi
    1. GreatRussia
      GreatRussia 18 January 2014 15: 56
      +24
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      Not a fig, symbolic, for a piece of bare steppe. But another thing is alarming, the idea that it seems nice to us to stay there, sounded only after Russia began to actively build the Vostochny spaceport.

      Namely, such statements should be confirmed by deeds, and not by asking for money!



      We are also completing the construction of a high-precision satellite navigation system. In 2008, we signed an intergovernmental agreement on the joint use of GLONASS, after which we began to create a ground-based infrastructure focused on the use of two systems - GLONASS and GPS.


      It is quite possible to part with GPS:

      Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin instructed by January 31 to conduct an inventory of the GLONASS system infrastructure, as well as similar foreign navigation systems.
      In particular, it is necessary to provide information on where in Russia the stations for adjusting signals of foreign navigation systems are located, who owns them and who serves them.
      "Even such questions have not been resolved, who is the real owner of signal calibration stations for other navigation systems. We have a GPS signal. The question arises: how does the American GPS navigation system work in Russia? On the basis of what international decisions, who made the decision to import of this American equipment to our territory, where it is located, how many such stations, who supports their technical suitability? ", Dmitry Rogozin told reporters.

      http://www.rg.ru/2013/11/25/rogozin-site-anons.html



      And Russia wanted to spit on the prohibition by the US Congress of the deployment of ground-based GLONASS signal correction stations on the territory of the United States of America:

      In addition, Rogozin noted that the Russian GLONASS orbital group has a potential that allows it to work without the use of ground signal correction stations.
      “Already in the next year and a half, we will be able to enhance the quality of the GLONASS signal so much that it will be more competitive than the GPS signal due to mathematical solutions,” said the Deputy Prime Minister.

      http://vz.ru/news/2013/11/25/661283.html
      1. sledgehammer102
        sledgehammer102 18 January 2014 17: 11
        +22
        Women say: "All men are the same"
        The men say: "All women are the same"
        And money says: "All countries and politicians are the same"

        The situation was approximately the same with Europe and Gazprom before the signing of contracts with China, with Japan before the appearance of the Sakhalin 1 and 2 projects and the oil port. With the Balts before the appearance of the port of Ust-Luga, with the Ukrainians and our Sevastopol before the "gas wars", with England before the increase in Russian gas supplies and the need to build a nuclear power plant.

        In short, when someone says something like "Everything will be done on our terms and you won't go anywhere", then he must understand that this can go sideways ... Obama will confirm.
      2. Ascetic
        Ascetic 18 January 2014 17: 30
        +14
        Quote: GreatRussia
        allows it to work without the use of ground signal correction stations.
        “Already in the next year and a half, we will be able to strengthen the quality of the GLONASS signal so that it is purely due to mathematical solutions more competitive than the GPS signal”


        This he probably says about the "Scorpio" system, complex of long-range navigation radar systems . In the USSR, in the pre-satellite SNS, there was such an RSDN-10 which performed the functions of determining coordinates with an accuracy of up to 200 m. Then, with the advent of the SNA, it was no longer needed. Now work on the creation of such a complex is being resumed, like the GLONASS understudy which the Americans will mute in wartime. In Transbaikalia, they have already begun replacing three target systems. The principle is simple direction finding of signals from three or more sources (the same as on satellites) only instead of station satellites -the target points whose coordinates are known. In other words, knowing the exact coordinates of these stations, you draw straight lines on the map according to the bearing and your location will be at the intersection. Only in the modern system will all this be determined automatically by special devices.
        The Ministry of Defense has begun replacing RSDN-10 ground-based long-range radar systems with new Scorpion systems. In case of war, these ground-based coordinate systems will replace the space-based ones - GPS and GLONASS. The update program is designed until 2020, Izvestia writes.

        As a representative of the Russian Institute of Radio Navigation and Time, Yuri Kupin, noted, “during the fighting, all satellite signals traveling through space will be actively jammed by the so-called“ white noise ”. In service with Russia, the United States and several other countries there are airplanes with special equipment that are capable of blocking the entire near-Earth radio space with noise.

        In a similar situation, the Scorpion system is called upon to become a kind of GLONASS backup.

        The Scorpio system is capable of providing a large coverage area (1 thousand km versus 600 for RSDN-10). The system is able to automatically maintain the parameters of the emitted signal, can be controlled from a single remote control. The receivers of the system can be installed on aviation, land, sea and river equipment. "

        1. Ascetic
          Ascetic 18 January 2014 17: 38
          +13
          Currently, the main means of DRNO aviation of the RF Armed Forces are radio-technical systems for long-range navigation (RSDN). GLONASS is only an auxiliary tool. RSDN are designed to determine the location of moving objects at any time of the day or year with unlimited bandwidth in a given coverage area.
          Currently deployed and operated the following radio navigation systems:


          1. Phase RSDN-20 “Route”.
          2.Systems RSDN "Chaika":
          - European RSDN-3 / 10;
          - Far Eastern RSDN-4;
          - Northern RSDN-5.
          3.Mobile systems RSDN-10 (North Caucasus, South Ural, Trans-Baikal, Far Eastern).

          The first long-range radio engineering system, in the former USSR, RSDN-3 / 10, was created after the modernization of the RNS Meridian and Normal. It was commissioned as part of the Air Force at the beginning of the 70 of the last century.

          The RSDN-3 / 10 includes 5 distant radio navigation stations (DRN): three stations are located on the territory of the Russian Federation (the settlement of Karachev, the settlement of Petrozavodsk, the settlement of Syzran), one station in Belarus (n P. Slonim) and one station on the territory of Ukraine (settlement Simferopol).
          After the collapse of the USSR, the RSDN-3 / 10 operates in accordance with the intergovernmental Agreement on Long-Range Radio Navigation Support in the Commonwealth of Independent States of 12 in March 1993. According to Article 2 of this Agreement, its participants recognized the need to preserve the radio navigation systems operating in their territory, as well as the existing order of their activities.

          The analogue of domestic RSDN (Seagull) abroad is the radio navigation system (RNS) Loran-C (D) (USA).
          1. Takashi
            Takashi 18 January 2014 18: 12
            +1
            Tell me, what kind of RSDN is operating near the village of Elban, Khabarovsk Territory. It is not on the diagram.
            1. Ascetic
              Ascetic 19 January 2014 04: 12
              +2
              Quote: Takashi
              Tell me, what kind of RSDN is operating near the village of Elban, Khabarovsk Territory. It is not on the diagram.

              RSDN-20 "Route". Range of action - 10 thousand km from the leading station. Positioning accuracy 2,5 ... 7 km. It was put into operation in 1972. There are five transmitting stations in this system, how many receiving HZ. In the diagram I do not know only three transmitters - Novosibirsk, Krasnodar, Komsomolsk-on Amur (Elban is one of the receivers) just ... The sector is generally large, most likely they started "Scorpio" with her, so they keep secret ...
          2. ty60
            ty60 18 January 2014 20: 53
            +1
            Here in Syzran
        2. GreatRussia
          GreatRussia 18 January 2014 17: 40
          +3
          Now work on the creation of such a complex is resumingas a GLONASS understudy that the Americans will muffle in wartime. In Transbaikalia, they have already begun replacing three target systems. The principle is simple direction finding of signals from three or more sources (the same as on satellites) only instead of the target station’s satellites whose coordinates are known

          Cool!
        3. marshes
          marshes 18 January 2014 17: 55
          +4
          Hello, now the antenna fields around Almaty are clear.
        4. ty60
          ty60 18 January 2014 20: 51
          +4
          In November 2011, I cooked optics at such a point. The process is on
      3. A.YARY
        A.YARY 18 January 2014 17: 55
        +15
        Ingvar 72 (squealing by name)
        You are right, especially since the interviewed cosmonaut himself was plunged into history a la "Get out, I say get out and grab the vampire with you ...." So to speak, he was in the forefront of taking away the "apartment" from Russia.
        So we drove many around the cosmos, the current gratitude in the form of spitting is always in their bosom.
        To have your own "table" without "brotherly" help is a matter.
      4. 225chay
        225chay 18 January 2014 20: 01
        +11
        Quote: GreatRussia
        thoughts that it seemed nice to us to stay there sounded only after Russia began to actively build the Vostochny spaceport.


        Russia should be a self-sufficient state independent of anyone in absolutely everything, including space.
      5. ty60
        ty60 18 January 2014 20: 45
        +2
        Your words, yes to God’s ears
      6. Gronsky
        Gronsky 18 January 2014 21: 16
        +9
        Quote: GreatRussia
        It is quite possible to part with GPS:


        And correctly Rogozin instructed. It's time, tooth by tooth, so to speak.
        Remove to ..you canine their station signal adjustments and point. Develop your system, spread rot, not paying attention to screams (and they will be necessary) about protectionism, the destruction of competition and violation of the right to free choice. We didn’t start it; what is hi, such is the answer.
      7. AVV
        AVV 19 January 2014 11: 43
        +3
        IT IS NECESSARY TO CLOSE ALL AMERICAN GPS STATIONS in Russia !!! Each action should have its own opposition, but as they wanted !!! Competitive conditions must be the same !!!
    2. Yeraz
      Yeraz 18 January 2014 16: 02
      .
      Quote: Ingvar 72
      Not a fig, symbolic, for a piece of bare steppe.

      Are you an economist and you know how much it costs to rent such facilities ??
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 18 January 2014 16: 43
        +30
        Quote: Yeraz
        Are you an economist and you know how much it costs to rent such facilities ??

        I guessed two higher economic. But now I work as an ordinary locksmith. laughing
        A lease really costs as much as the lessor wants to receive, and the result will depend on how much this object is needed by the lessee. And of course, from relations between subjects. Let's consider the rental object. There is a bare steppe for hundreds of kilometers. around, and this territory has no other economic potential. The equipment is owned by Russia, as far as I know. So, the cost is determined only by the appetite of the leadership of Kazakhstan. Costs associated with operating costs are paid separately. hi
        1. Very old
          Very old 18 January 2014 16: 56
          .
          Here is a locksmith and stay.
          Dear descendant of pseudo-lzhenitsyn, did you even lie there nearby?
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 18 January 2014 17: 04
            +12
            Quote: Very old
            Here is a locksmith and stay.

            Time will tell.
            Quote: Very old
            Have you even been lying there?

            He served in Derzhavinsk and on Baikonur was, however, once, and then, two days in total.
            Quote: Very old
            Dear descendant of pseudo-lzhenitsyn

            What does it disagree with? Besides senile grumbling, are there any arguments? laughing
            1. Very old
              Very old 18 January 2014 17: 10
              .
              Heard. Heard. Heard.
              The economist?
              Yeah!
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 18 January 2014 17: 16
                +16
                Quote: Very old
                The economist?
                Yeah!

                Pathological rejection of economists? Did you retire your pension incorrectly? Believe me, it's not me.repeat
                1. Very old
                  Very old 18 January 2014 17: 20
                  .
                  I believe.
                  You are not responsible for my pension.
                  But everything cannot be reduced to "grandmothers"
                  Kazakhstan ... and what else do we have
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 18 January 2014 17: 31
                    +14
                    Quote: Very old
                    Kazakhstan ... and what else do we have

                    I do not bring. I sincerely hope to unite in the future. But eastern features must be taken into account, especially at this level. Eastern people, as you say, are slightly cunning, and Nazarbayev is still a fox. Smart and cunning.
                    P.S. Nothing on you?
                    1. Very old
                      Very old 18 January 2014 17: 37
                      +2
                      SECURITY!
                      I do not respond to insults
                      1. Ingvar 72
                        Ingvar 72 18 January 2014 19: 56
                        +6
                        Quote: Very old
                        SECURITY!
                        I do not respond to insults

                        Is this an insult? Well then, I apologize to you. Although I asked
                        Quote: Ingvar 72
                        Nothing on you?
                    2. Andrey KZ
                      Andrey KZ 18 January 2014 20: 17
                      +22
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      Nazarbayev is still a fox. Smart and cunning.

                      In vain they zamusnuvalu.Ingvar, now look around, and who, besides Kazakhstan, has Russia as allies, well, except for the Army and Navy, of course? So who, even in the dashing 90, when it was a turn to kick a wounded bear, didn’t turn away, but was nearby, holding out his brotherly hand? And it is not our fault that Yeltsin pushed this hand away. If such allies are scattered, then I don’t know request
                      1. Onizuka teacher
                        Onizuka teacher 18 January 2014 20: 35
                        +3
                        Quote: Andrey KZ
                        If such allies are scattered, then I don’t know

                        Many here look at Kazakhstan from high.
                      2. cherkas.oe
                        cherkas.oe 19 January 2014 00: 42
                        +8
                        Quote: Teacher Onizuka
                        Many here look at Kazakhstan from high.

                        You are not right, not high, but soberly and practically without undue enthusiasm, we will become dearer and closer with time, but for now, many remember the nationalist frenzy of the late 80s and early XNUMXs, when the Russians, who devoted their whole lives to industrialization and the enlightenment of Kazakhstan, with great resentment and pain, left their homes and left. (I’m talking about my uncle)
                    3. The comment was deleted.
                    4. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 18 January 2014 20: 43
                      +6
                      Quote: Andrey KZ
                      The old ones were vainly mined

                      I didn’t minus him, I even pushed him once, but he doesn’t behave beautifully, he goes over to personality. About the fact that you need to live peacefully with your neighbors, I agree. hi
                    5. ty60
                      ty60 18 January 2014 21: 03
                      +5
                      not everything is so simple. It would be necessary to LIVE in Kazakhstan. Years in the 80s of the last century. in the 90s. And everything will become clear and transparent.
                  2. ekzorsist
                    ekzorsist 19 January 2014 16: 50
                    0
                    Quote: Ingvar 72

                    Eastern people, as you say, are slightly cunning, and Nazarbayev is still a fox. Clever and cunning.

                    Yes, not with a sly one, but let's face it with a big sly ..... Well, "... Nazarbayev is still a fox. Clever and cunning ..." also with great appetites and ambitions.
                    1. Onizuka teacher
                      Onizuka teacher 20 January 2014 08: 09
                      +3
                      Quote: ekzorsist
                      Yes, not with a sly one, but let's face it with a big sly ..... Well, "... Nazarbayev is still a fox. Clever and cunning ..." also with great appetites and ambitions.

                      Nazarbayev pulled Kazakhstan out of one place, I myself am Ukrainian and I see behind an ekzorsist nickname an ungrateful parasite who insults people who have sheltered his ancestors and himself. I have a Kazakh wife and I know her relatives and I know what kind of people are Kazakhs, I even learned the language. I am here in my homeland, but you see that you were mistaken that you live here and your double face is one on the forum and the other on the street says a lot. After all, people like you will never tell the Kazakhs what they think, and you are a hero to write. Do you feel sick ekzorsist ...
                    2. cherkas.oe
                      cherkas.oe 20 January 2014 12: 31
                      0
                      Quote: Teacher Onizuka
                      I’m familiar with her relatives and I know what kind of people the Kazakhs are, I even learned the language. I'm here in my homeland

                      If you are in your homeland, then your wife's relatives should simply KNOW, and not be "familiar" with them, the KNOW LANGUAGE FROM CHILDHOOD, and not "learn" and by the way, the Motherland is written with a capital letter. And so; taking into account all these indirect signs of your, to put it mildly, not sincerity, I conclude: -Your presence here is just a job for which you are paid, you do not have a wife, you are not a Slav, judging by the avatar, some kind of "mazafaka" , not Onizuka. So, there is no need to spit at anyone and stigmatize, go up to the mirror and spit, it will be fairer.
                  3. The comment was deleted.
        2. Very old
          Very old 18 January 2014 18: 17
          -8
          You are a coward. And I do not respect cowards.
          You could not even adequately answer - but a grumbling, etc.
          Dirty
      2. Platov
        Platov 18 January 2014 17: 29
        +8
        The locksmith with the initial will repair the pipes in the emergency communal room, and the locksmith and the ship will collect spaceships.
    3. Kazbek
      Kazbek 18 January 2014 17: 30
      .
      Looks like fake, they told you in Russian that they signed 20 years ago. What do you want to say that your lousy 115 llamas did not depreciate over 20 years? For one year, prices are rising like yeast for everything, so you would be silent. If you would like to be raised a long time ago, go in bare steppes in bulk and run races so dearly.
      1. sevtrash
        sevtrash 18 January 2014 18: 25
        +29
        Quote: Kazbek
        your lousy 115 lyamov

        You must either leave Baikonur or pay, but without any additional obligations. Otherwise, it will turn out that it is Russia that will modernize the sites, the city, create a rocket, at the same time create personnel for the Kazakhs for free, and then they will say - "your lousy ...". Why create competitors, there are already enough of them.
        1. Andrey KZ
          Andrey KZ 18 January 2014 20: 24
          +5
          Yes, but we forgot about the Ukrainians. Do not worry, you also
          Today, there is an agreement on the parity participation of Russia, Ukraine and Kazakhstan in the authorized capital of Kosmotras - each of the founders will have 33,3% of shares
          Read the article carefully. Regards hi
          1. marshes
            marshes 18 January 2014 20: 39
            +6
            Quote: Andrey KZ
            Yes, but we forgot about the Ukrainians.

            Andrew heard that you are Ukrainian, my best friend is the same Ukrainian, his ancestors from Khmelnitsky.
            1. Andrey KZ
              Andrey KZ 18 January 2014 20: 48
              +6
              Quote: marshes
              Andrew heard that you are Ukrainian, my best friend is the same Ukrainian, his ancestors from Khmelnitsky.

              Everything is confused, my father is Ukrainian (Kirovograd), my mother is Russian. And I was born in Kazakhstan.
              1. marshes
                marshes 18 January 2014 21: 02
                +7
                Quote: Andrey KZ
                Everything is confusing, dad is Ukrainian (Kirovograd),

                It is clear, your father is from the center, and I have a Kent "Bandera" laughing by the way a couple of times went with him laughing , his father, Uncle Semyon, party laughing . At one time was a battalion commander in one of the parts of Kazakhstan, in the mid 80's.
                1. Andrey KZ
                  Andrey KZ 18 January 2014 22: 32
                  +8
                  Quote: marshes
                  his father is Uncle Semyon, a party

                  And my grandfather, uh, "Stalinist" was, the kingdom of heaven to him. Here he really wept when the Union collapsed.
                  1. marshes
                    marshes 18 January 2014 22: 37
                    +5
                    How old was it for grandfather?
                    Another interesting point, my wife’s ancestors were sent from Ukraine somewhere in the 20s, though they had documents left for the churn and the estate, on their hands, it’s interesting if Ukraine joins the European Union, they will return it as it was in the Baltic states.
                  2. Andrey KZ
                    Andrey KZ 18 January 2014 22: 49
                    +3
                    Quote: marshes
                    it’s interesting if Ukraine enters the European Union, they will return it as it was in the Baltic states.

                    So you need to (just kidding) on ​​Euromaidan. Grandfather 92 was. His fate left Ukraine, the Far East, Kazalinsk, Baikonur, the Bugunskoye reservoir, and this is where he settled.
                  3. marshes
                    marshes 18 January 2014 22: 59
                    +3
                    Quote: Andrey KZ
                    So you need Euromaidan (just kidding)

                    Why, a brother living in Kharkov pays for gas half as much as I do. smile We have a cube in the region of 22 tenge; they have about 16 tenge.
                    The cousin is a cousin, a retired pilot, he has our pension of 60 thousand, he still doesn’t have 40, the prices are several times lower than ours, I’ll check in the summer. smile
                  4. Zymran
                    Zymran 18 January 2014 23: 38
                    +4
                    And I pay 387 (!) Tenge for a cube. They also say that Astana is fattening.
                  5. marshes
                    marshes 18 January 2014 23: 53
                    +4
                    Quote: Zymran
                    And I pay 387 for a cube

                    This is from gas tanks, propane-butane mixture-oil gas, expensive of course. I myself used to buy 30 liter cylinders and then for cooking and the house was heated with coal with stove fuel and electricity, during the season about a million came out and the payment can be said - right away, now a little more than 15 thousand a month, in summer 600-700 tenge. Of course, the apartment is cheaper, but I can't, cars have to be installed, etc. "Birdhouse".
                2. 225chay
                  225chay 19 January 2014 06: 09
                  0
                  Quote: marshes
                  Why, a brother living in Kharkov pays for gas half as much as I do. We have a cube in the region of 22 tenge; they have about 16 tenge.
                  The cousin is a cousin, a retired pilot, he has our pension of 60 thousand, he still doesn’t have 40, the prices are several times lower than ours, I’ll check in the summer.

                  Quote: Zymran
                  And I pay 387 (!) Tenge for a cube. They also say that Astana is fattening.

                  Quote: marshes
                  now a little more than 15 thousand a month, in the summer 600-700 tenge. Of course, the apartment is cheaper, but I can't, the cars have to be installed, etc.

                  Guys, I’m sorry, you can translate numbers into rubles, or at least in dollars, otherwise I'm confused ...
                3. Andrey KZ
                  Andrey KZ 19 January 2014 08: 28
                  +1
                  Quote: 225chay
                  Guys, I'm sorry, you can translate numbers into rubles
                  Delhi at 5, you will get prices in rubles.
    4. Clegg
      Clegg 19 January 2014 12: 25
      +7
      Quote: Andrey KZ
      Everything is confused, my father is Ukrainian (Kirovograd), my mother is Russian. And I was born in Kazakhstan.

      As Gennady Golovkin said: "Mom is Korean, dad is Russian. And I am Kazakh.")))
      1. Andrey KZ
        Andrey KZ 20 January 2014 18: 49
        +2
        Quote: Clegg
        As Gennady Golovkin said: "Mom is Korean, dad is Russian. And I am Kazakh.")))

        Well, something like this, I disagree with Gena a bit (just don’t tell him). I position myself rather as an Orthodox Kazakh.
  • ty60
    ty60 18 January 2014 21: 14
    +2
    one friend came to Russia. He worked for a year, got citizenship. He turned to Kazakhstan. He sells computers. Why? The verbatim answer is where in Russia I’ll find a woman to buy an IP server instead of a computer server or with super video cards, shorter than everyone’s ears unnecessary. For reference: grandparents
  • cherkas.oe
    cherkas.oe 19 January 2014 00: 50
    +2
    Quote: sevtrash
    . Why create competitors, they are enough.

    About three months ago, we were already discussing this problem on the site (Baikonur). I am the same, said word for word. good
  • ty60
    ty60 18 January 2014 21: 05
    +2
    Well, right across Nazarbayev, a man with a STATE WARNING OF MIND!
  • knn54
    knn54 18 January 2014 22: 22
    +5
    It is important that Musabaev understands that the friendship between Russia and Kazakhstan is UNALTERNATIVE.
    And the procurers and exporters of non-ferrous and ferrous scrap only FOR - they want a repetition of the situation of the 90s.
    If Russia leaves, Baikonur will repeat the fate of the nuclear submarine repair base in Balaklava.
    PS Altai-territory of Russia "takes" the 3rd stage of missiles.
    1. ekzorsist
      ekzorsist 19 January 2014 17: 16
      0
      He can and understands, BUT! Do everyone else understand? - Here is a big question.
      In reality, Kazakhstan its entire industry simply ... wondered, the remnants of what was just - handicraft. But at the same time, having the opportunity to become a large agricultural country fool for some reason, too, they are not realized in any way - in fact, only petty-partisan semi-farms, half-strokes ... negative Although everyone in the world has long understood that a farmer or smallholder will not do any weather. Nune will even be able to feed his country, and even more so with someone somewhere to compete.
      The same is with Baikonur - a lot of screams like - "... this is ours! ... yes, we will launch such rockets here ourselves !!!" But in fact, if at one time Russia had not assumed all the costs of conservation and restoration of the infrastructure of the same Baikonur (town) and launch sites ... then in reality at the moment there would really be a real Kazakh steppe - naked, with ruins, remnants of former buildings ... and NOTHING else!
      If you do not believe it, look what remains of Emba ... and even hundreds of other cities and towns - they simply disappeared altogether.
      So, talk about the cost of rent ... to put it mildly - provocation and really still need to look - and who should pay and to whom! Training staff also costs money, and not small, but here they want to freebie, and for what really create competitors for themselves? Especially since having several levels of lower qualification will simply interrupt prices?
  • ultra
    ultra 19 January 2014 12: 53
    +2
    Quote: Kazbek
    your lousy xnumx llamas for xnumx years have not depreciated

    Depreciated fact! That's just the question is whether 115 or nothing! Russia will still transfer launches to its territory, it is a matter of time!
    1. T80UM1
      T80UM1 23 January 2014 15: 25
      0
      Well, fine! Good luck to you.
  • Pilat2009
    Pilat2009 19 January 2014 14: 52
    +2
    Quote: Kazbek
    your lousy xnumx llamas for xnumx years have not depreciated

    They are not our lousy but American. And they grow with the course
    Quote: Kazbek
    you bare steppes go in bulk and run races so expensive.

    We’ll soon build Vostochny. And in Guiana there is a platform. At Baikonur the light did not converge
  • The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. Kasym
      Kasym 18 January 2014 18: 03
      +11
      Kazbek, hello! It’s not worth boiling, I think so. Let’s better clarify.
      So: this is a diagram of the Baikonur cosmodrome (bare steppe, as our friend writes). I copied this scheme from the series of articles "Spaceports of the world" which was written by one of our respected members of the forum.
      Area: 6717 sq. M. kilometers or 671 ha. That is a square of 700 km. per 67km .. This is the area of ​​a small state. The cost is $ 100 or $ 115 per 000 ha. (000 to 171 meters). To be continued.
      1. Kasym
        Kasym 18 January 2014 18: 41
        +22
        Further. I forgot to note that the rent of Baikonur is 4,2% of the budget of Roscosmos and is not critical. Baikonur was built since 1955. And leaving Russia with him would be criminal negligence. Since the infrastructure was built there for all types of launch vehicles: light (Cosmos, Cyclone, Dnieper, Rokot, Arrow), medium (Union, Zenith), heavy (Proton, Cyclone, Energy). Copying such an object is very expensive (see diagram. There are 2 airdromes, hundreds of kilometers of reinforced railways). And to say that the East can replace this is stupid. But Russia is STRATEGICALLY IMPORTANT TO HAVE YOUR OWN SPACE. And this is clear to everyone, and it is desirable to have a spare launch pad for a fire accident.
        Now it is at least clear what the agreement on Baikonur was. That's right: we need to unite efforts in space, because it is expensive, but necessary. I think that the Hero of Russia and the Hero of Kazakhstan will find a middle ground. And the former "owner" of Roscosmos Popovkin was not fired for nothing. And, please, no need to talk about the "eastern cunning" - Kazakhstan ALWAYS FULFILLED THE COMMITMENTS TAKEN ON ITSELF, MORE TO RUSSIA (ON WHICH PERSONS CERTAIN HOPES FOR THE UNION REVIVAL). THERE IS NOT A SINGLE CASE OF UNFAIR RELATIONSHIP TO RUSSIA. We Kazakhstanis understand this, because the second largest people living in the Republic of Kazakhstan is Russian. But the Russians do not always understand this and they are waiting for a catch. Any Kazakhstani politician, if he goes against the CU and the new Union, will not enjoy great support of the people. hi
        SO "FRIENDS, LET'S LIVE PEACEFULLY".
        1. avt
          avt 18 January 2014 19: 08
          +12
          Quote: Kasym
          And to say that the East can replace this is stupid.

          request So a person can say that he has never been there at any site.
          Quote: Kasym
          Now it’s clear what they agreed on in Baikonur. That's right: we must combine space efforts,

          Joining forces is good, no, really, without a trick. But before uniting something, one must clearly understand in the name of what unification is, what is the goal and is it the same for all. That's when Baikonur was being built, yes, the goal was clear for the citizens of the USSR, consisting of different nations. Well, now what is the purpose of the unification? To live, as they say, is good, but it is even better to live well? To raise money on commercial launches, or in It's not the goal to float on them, by the way, not only for Kazakhstan, this also applies to Russia Do you think that a joint defense and space program has been developed? I doubt it very much. From the interview I see only an attempt at a civilized divorce and Musabayev's fear of failure to fulfill the task of building a new "space power", well, the thrashing of the leaders about the "Vostochny", which arranged the VVP on camera, which I already wrote about today, strengthens me in my thoughts. It's a pity about the cosmodrome, very much, like anyone who saw the launch live there and prelaunch before that.
          1. Kasym
            Kasym 18 January 2014 20: 20
            +8
            ABT. Read the comments of specialists on the East once you need it.
            One general writes that making 20 launches from Vostochny a year is simply impossible, since BAM will be shut down for a month. Can Russia afford it?
            Further, you want to prescribe all your life in one day - it comes to general programs. So far, I see the association in terms of creating satellites - it’s already good (even if the Republic of Kazakhstan can only help with money now - that’s not enough. Infa. Personally for you — under the USSR, studying at the Moscow Higher Technical School was not available for the Kazakh). Are you only living with money? Musabaev was persuaded to accept this department. Do you think he is holding on to a chair? I do not know . So it's not for us to judge.
            Baikonur will not die, I assure you. Iran, Pakistan, DPRK. At least Kazakhstan sends 15 students abroad (000 at the expense of the state). And the priority is techies and specials. in the natural sciences. You think we are dumber than the above countries. Russia will not leave Baikonur just because it does not want to get a competitor and break off relations with us (one might say from all of Central Asia).
            If the RK would like to somehow spoil the Russian Federation, this would have been done long ago. Because we do not walk with outstretched hands. And we have much more opportunities than that of Ukraine, if you think carefully.
            1. avt
              avt 18 January 2014 21: 01
              +5
              Quote: Kasym
              What do you want to prescribe all your life in one day - it comes to general programs

              request I assure you, let’s get to the point - yesterday it was early, today it is too late.
              Quote: Kasym
              infa. personally for you - under the USSR, studying at the Moscow Higher Technical School for the Kazakh was not available)

              smile Pushkin is our everything. ,, The fish said nothing, just waved its tail "in a personal
              Quote: Kasym
              And the priority is techies and specials. in the natural sciences. You think we are dumber than the above countries.

              request And when did I say that!?
              Quote: Kasym
              At least Kazakhstan sends 15 students abroad (000 at the expense of the state). And the priority is techies and specials. in the natural sciences.

              Well, you understand that, under favorable conditions, they will only create a school that we are losing on the territory of the former USSR, do you really think like this, they will learn from sight and do everything right away? The countries you mentioned, add China and India, are following the beaten track, they are not inventing anything new, breakthrough. Even China. The presence of a UNIFIED program would give incomparable advantages on the basis of the Soviet school, which has not yet been finished off by the "reformers" worshiping "Holy Investments"
              Quote: Kasym
              If the RK would like to somehow spoil the Russian Federation, this would have been done long ago

              Yes, and it makes no sense, they themselves found adventure.
              Quote: Kasym
              And we have much more opportunities than that of Ukraine, if you think carefully.
              No, not yet. They haven’t done everything yet, there were people who were rooting for the case, few, but they remained and the production reserve wasn’t yet completely drunk. Maybe over time ... but that's another story and you need to look at what you actually plan for the long-term. And since I don’t know, I can’t assess, I can’t conduct an examination - there is no admission. laughing
              1. Kasym
                Kasym 18 January 2014 23: 03
                +6
                And good evening to you, ABT! Well, it’s not for us to decide, but joint activity - this is logical and necessary. Well, Russia will leave, the Chinese or Europeans will come, which is also not for us to decide. What good is this? Yes, and I do not believe that the Russian Federation will leave.
                As for the stupidity, you probably understood. I meant that we are not stupider than the same Pakistanis and that our secondary education is higher. In the physics and mathematics school, where I studied yesterday, the Olympics ended. 1. Russia 2. Kazakhstan, etc. I don’t even know. But I know that we were from Indonesia (two arrived in shirts, thought it was warm here), Mongolia, and others. countries.
                Block the transit of the same gas from Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan, cotton, etc., etc. . Putin: Everything that Kazakhstan does not offer, it is ready to sign immediately, almost without reading. Because Kazakhstan did not offer anything bad and infringing on the interests of Russia. What I can not say about others.
                I have nothing to add. If anyone believes that Kazakhstan is a problem for Russia, I’m not going to argue.
                I meant financial opportunities, about Ukraine. Was there in the summer. I visited the people of Kiev 2 times. "This is what stability means. And what are the roads. You, Kazakhs, can explain to me for at least a hundred years that Nazarbayev is so weak. But give it to us. We are falling apart, what an economy, if they have been sharing power for 20 years. If you set tasks for 30, 50 years. Then we do not know what will happen tomorrow. And your programs, this is just fantastic for us. "Find 10% of the required, the rest will be given by the state + half of the interest on the loan will pay off for you + preferential treatment will give + half of the infrastructure will take over ". This in Ukraine is just fantastic. We have a problem to buy land, and some banks take household land as collateral from you." What should I add.
                About students - this speaks about the possibilities of the country. And her policies in this area. Well, since you studied at the Moscow Technical University, all the more so in the course. And we are not in a hurry and understand where we are going - YESTERDAY WAS A MESSAGE OF THE PRESIDENT TO THE PEOPLE OF KAZAKHSTAN. This man is stubborn, has already proved something.
                ABT. WE WILL JUST WE WILL BUY SPECIALISTS, AND BAIKONUR WILL LIVE.
                And honestly you don’t need about launch vehicles. In fact, a can with fuel and a rocket engine. We'll figure it out if it touches. WE ARE ALL REPRESENTATIVES OF THE RUSSIAN SCIENTIFIC SCHOOL. A Tochka missile was going to in Petropavlovsk, if that. BUT I THINK THIS MATTER WILL NOT ACHIEVE, COSMOS IS AN EXPENSIVE BUSINESS. RUSSIA IS NOT ALSO BEFORE FAT - ISSUE ISSUES. ONE OLYMPIAD WITH THE WORLD FOOTBALL CHAMPIONSHIP FOR EYES IS ENOUGH, THE ARMY SHOULD RE-EQUIPMENT (we have started this process since 2007, every year it is modernized or comes up with 10% instead of the old weapons of the Republic of Kazakhstan - Russia is a little late here).
                1. avt
                  avt 18 January 2014 23: 56
                  +4
                  request The fact that the joint activity is obvious and logical is not discussed. But you need to do this with a very specific, common goal and already develop a mechanism for achieving it.
                  Quote: Kasym
                  WE WILL BE SIMPLY BUYING SPECIALISTS,

                  request A small example - Medvedev considered the boat afloat - "Yuri Dolgoruky", the admirals grieved for him about the problems with the sonar. "Tell them they won't do it - we'll buy it from others." We have already passed this station, if we will buy something. You know, it doesn’t work out very well in practice, as there was not enough specialists, there is not enough and even for money they cannot find, especially cool working performers, but managers, lawyers are a pond dozen, turn to the chiefs.
                  Quote: Kasym
                  About students - this speaks about the possibilities of the country. And her policies in this area.
                  I did not say that this is bad - it is an investment for the future, at least 5-6 years after receiving a quality education and creating working conditions, they will create their own school.
                  Quote: Kasym
                  COSMOS IS AN EXPENSIVE BUSINESS. RUSSIA IS NOT ALSO BEFORE FAT -

                  Well, I always say that Russia will not extend the volume and pace of space exploration since the USSR.
                  Quote: Kasym
                  WE ARE ALL REPRESENTATIVES OF THE RUSSIAN SCIENTIFIC SCHOOL.

                  Which we hold with great difficulty with very vague prospects.
                  Quote: Kasym
                  Well, Russia will leave, the Chinese or Europeans will come,

                  Europeans? Then they would not call Barmina table for 7ki in French Guiana. Are the Chinese? These squeezed a lot from us and in Lobnor. If they take something for disassembly, they do it at home. If China comes to Baikonur, it means that it is no longer in Kazakhstan. Baikonur is OUR JOINT headache, and so far I don’t see a successful resolution, maybe I’m mistaken, but I don’t see any concrete arguments against it. There is no real, promising joint program.
              2. Kasym
                Kasym 18 January 2014 23: 37
                +3
                ABT. And for what minus they slapped you did not understand. wink . Corrected.
                1. avt
                  avt 19 January 2014 00: 04
                  +2
                  Quote: Kasym
                  And for what minus they slapped you did not understand

                  request They can’t say anything - they really want to, but maybe they don’t want to. It happens . It’s much more interesting to get a minus followed by a comment.
        2. ty60
          ty60 18 January 2014 21: 17
          +2
          I was born in Uralsk. I grew up there. I left.
        3. Kasym
          Kasym 18 January 2014 23: 18
          +4
          Sorry, of course, a rectangle 67 by 100 km .. Or a square with a side of 82 km .. It became a shame, because the mathematician himself. repeat
        4. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 19 January 2014 18: 01
          0
          Quote: Kasym
          Baikonur rent is 4,2% of the budget of Roscosmos and is not critical

          And how much is critical? 50%?
      2. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 18 January 2014 20: 04
        +4
        Spaceport facilities are the property of the Russian Federation, if not mistaken.
        Quote: Kasym
        that the rent of Baikonur is 4,2% of the budget of Roscosmos and is not critical

        I agree.
        Quote: Kasym
        And leaving Russia with him would be criminal negligence

        I also agree, but with a reservation. At your heights raised the topic of rent increases. And this is speculation in good neighborly relations. Not good to eat.request
        Quote: Kasym
        SO "FRIENDS, LET'S LIVE PEACEFULLY".
        Strongly agree. drinks
        1. Kasym
          Kasym 18 January 2014 20: 37
          +7
          Ingvar 72, hello! In my opinion, what kind of property is there, there is the same Art. site under Zenith to shaman and shaman. All cables are new. And so on and so on .. Where the money is necessary - we will take it upon ourselves. There we are already pulling Ukraine by both hands. After all, we can really lose Zenith if Ukraine joins the "association."
          You do not know about the lease - the RK refuses from it to show the Russian Federation that we are not walking with outstretched hands. Read my comments on this topic will understand that it is logical on our part.
          Well, for your health drinks .
          1. avt
            avt 19 January 2014 00: 22
            +2
            Quote: Kasym
            After all, Zenith can really lose if Ukraine joins the "association"

            With Zenith, may Ascetic correct me, the situation is already rather muddy. It began for health, but now I'm afraid for peace it turns out. “Sea Launch" got up and not because of insurmountable technical problems. In Plisetsk, they shot a lightweight version of the seven - obviously a variant of replacing the Zenith with an easy Angara. , some kind of dirty game is going on around Yuzhmash.
            1. Kasym
              Kasym 19 January 2014 02: 57
              +5
              As far as I know, Kazakhstan is ready to pay a few (dozens) of launch vehicles at once so that Ukrainians do not soar with money. In short, there the National Academy of Sciences is ready to cling to death, right up to pay for research and the modernization of Zenith. With Yanukovych at the summit, the CIS seemed to be talking about this topic.
              Understand that in our country the president himself is engaged in economics. Baikonur is his priority. This is how Russia sets itself the task of watered. the arena of peace in the Middle East.
              About the specialists. If you think it will only rely on growing. special, then practice says something else. He always hired the best - he spared no money. If he needs to get Ablyazov out of the West, he will hire Blair. I am not kidding . You have heard what Nazarbayev University is (here I do not share the position of NAS) in Astana. And about science, you are absolutely right. This is also an expensive pleasure - science. Therefore, I believe that sooner or later there will be a unification of efforts. The question is: just how soon will this understanding happen. Okay, communication at the level of universities has been lost, but a huge chain of specialized research institutes and cooperation in production have been destroyed (the National Academy of Sciences, just spoke about their restoration within the Union, he said in his message yesterday that funding for science will bring up to 3% of the budget (practically, as an army). He also spoke about high-tech industries and nuclear energy. "The country takes 1st place in the world for production. God himself ordered us to have the entire chain of nuclear fuel production (do not forget that the Republic of Kazakhstan is investing in Angarsk to enrich uranium, which I think is profitable and RF). And also environmentally friendly nuclear energy. "Kazakhstan has already made it clear to the Russian Federation that it is ready to invest in the production of reactors (and some of the materials for it are produced by us) and create a" dump "of nuclear waste and fuel (oh, how we love these green Here, too, Kazakhstan is ready to make capital investments with the interest of Russia, and the National Academy of Sciences is ready to grab a bulldog's grip here.
              Honestly, we in RK often see the following situation. When Kazakhstan puts forward something (the economy), then in Russia, at first, at a loss, then they begin to puff, then digest, and only then that it is right.
              A bunch of examples. Railway . How many times under Yeltsin they spoke to facilitate the passage of citizens through the territory of the Republic of Kazakhstan and the Russian Federation (with the Far East). In the end, they built their branch about 500 km. Only gr. RF Putin comes, and the earlier they thought? I went to ask ANAS. Well, where is the logic? Electricity is a big topic. Red so narulil that she came from the RK cheaper to the Urals than the Russian Federation supplied us in the West. Kaz .. The Uzbeks and the Kyrgyz also added fuel to the fire. In short, they built a closed system (Kanat Bozumbayev was engaged - a class manager, 44 years old, now the governor of Pavlod. Region) and were ready to launch. And suddenly everyone came running and started saying that we shouldn’t do it, and Redhead quickly adjusted the price. And how many dibs were spent all in a drum. RK naturally did everything as friends want. I don’t even want to rummage further, but I’m sure my countrymen can still throw something.
              Here is my absolute Baikonur association. In the end, we have presidential countries, and we know that they meet almost once a month. No wonder I think the three of them wipe their pants. But the Union will set the shaft of tasks in such a way that sooner or later some of the functions will force it to create a supranac. authorities with great authority. Otherwise, you have to spend the night together. wink drinks hi
              1. avt
                avt 19 January 2014 10: 57
                +2
                Quote: Kasym
                As far as I know, Kazakhstan is ready to pay a few (dozens) of launch vehicles at once so that Ukrainians do not soar with money. In short, there the National Academy of Sciences is ready to cling to death, right up to pay for research and the modernization of Zenith.

                It's not about the money . I have a strong conviction that Zenith is being drowned, it is a competitor to many players on the market, you can consider me a conspiracy theorist, but it’s not possible without the “universal” ones, otherwise the sea launch would function, but there are enough of them “devotees” in Russia in abundance for all levels.
                Quote: Kasym
                About the specialists. If you think that he will rely only on growing. special., then practice speaks of another. He always hired the best - he did not spare money.

                To hire specialists, as well as train your own for the school being created, you need a clear goal and program. Just like Stalin did.
                Quote: Kasym
                Kazakhstan has already made it clear to the Russian Federation that it is ready to invest in the production of reactors (and some of the materials for it are produced here) and create a "dump" of nuclear waste and fuel (oh, how we love these green topics). Here, too, Kazakhstan is ready to make capital investments with the interest of Russia. NAS is ready to grab hold of a bulldog here.

                request I think that it is enough to read Sudoplatov’s memoirs to understand how the industry developed and what place the Asian republics occupied in the Soviet project. It’s not even Sempsk’s problem, we had the smart guys in the leadership to conduct an underground explosion and not far from Moscow - strategists were tested for strength in the upper Volga. So, the National Academy of Sciences noted this topic correctly, we’ll wait for the result.
                Quote: Kasym
                When Kazakhstan puts forward something (the economy), then in Russia, at first, at a loss, then they begin to puff, then digest, and only then that it is right.
              2. avt
                avt 19 January 2014 11: 15
                +1
                Quote: Kasym
                When Kazakhstan puts forward something (the economy), then in Russia, at first, at a loss, then they begin to puff, then digest, and only then that it is right.
                A bunch of examples. Railway . How many times under Yeltsin they spoke to facilitate the passage of citizens through the territory of the Republic of Kazakhstan and the Russian Federation (with the Far East). In the end, they built their branch about 500 km. Only gr. RF Putin comes, and the earlier they thought?

                Well it's simple! The idea is not mine, but it is sensible and the people supported it - we have no economists in our government, there is a totalitarian sect, so now they have come up with a name for it - "Gaidar's witnesses", led by a LADY who worships "Holy Investments", so the logic is sometimes it is difficult to search in decision making.
                Quote: Kasym
                sooner or later will force to create a supra-national. authorities with great authority. Otherwise, you have to spend the night together.

                request And here is the problem of all problems. How will the elites agree with the transfer of powers and subordination of decisions of bodies. I don't see a solution yet, an example of this is the "union state" and the point is not even who is bad - GDP or Old Man, there is a complete analogy with the biblical Tower of Babel - the USSR, everyone says it seems even in one language, but they mean each his own, and even sometimes they do a third. God grant that it would grow together and not too late. Maybe the first signal for this will be a single means of payment. But how will they agree on a single emission center request ? Again, the example of Belarus comes to mind. Again, I have already noted that we need an IDEOLOGY of unification, which is aggressively promoted on real positive examples, indicating shortcomings with an indispensable recipe for eliminating them. But the corresponding information resource is not observed, and this is a minus very large. Something like that . hi drinks
      3. Egoza
        Egoza 18 January 2014 20: 31
        0
        Quote: Kasym
        This is the scheme of the Baikonur cosmodrome (bare steppe, as our comrade writes).

        Sorry to interfere. It's just that my classmate's father was one of the leaders of the Baikonur construction. And many of these were scattered across other republics. Is it okay that the cosmodrome was built under the USSR and at the expense of the entire people? Maybe before setting the price for the rent, it would be necessary to take into account the investments, and the state of the current owner of the "apartment"?
        1. Onizuka teacher
          Onizuka teacher 18 January 2014 20: 45
          +6
          Quote: Egoza
          it would be necessary to take into account the investments, and in what condition does the current owner of the "apartment" support?

          Dear Ascetic wrote that the former heads of RosKosmos blocked ANY attempt of Kazakhstan to enter Baikonur with help. Not just for free, but with money. Blame yourself in
          Quote: Egoza
          "apartment"
          they didn’t let in for repairs.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Kasym
          Kasym 18 January 2014 22: 18
          +7
          Elena, have a nice weekend to you! Well, we don’t write that we built everything together that the Nazis destroyed. I think it is futile to argue to whom and what was built during the Union and who had what territory. Documents are all signed.
          Since I am a Kazakh and a Kazakh by nationality, I know more about Baikonur than, for example, ordinary Ukrainian, Kyrgyz or Russian.
          For example, a lease was signed in 1998. How did the spaceport exist? Maybe there were no launches? And how much has Kazakhstan invested (lost) in your money? Read Ascetic's comments here. And Musabaev explains a lot. What should I add? Regards, Dauren.
  • kush62
    kush62 18 January 2014 18: 38
    -1
    I guessed two higher economic. But now I work as an ordinary locksmith.

    And how many electronic engineers with higher education come to me.
    A soldering iron cannot be distinguished from tweezers. There is a very good saying: For whom he studied, he succeeded.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 18 January 2014 20: 11
      +3
      Quote: kush62
      . There is a very good saying: For whom he studied, he succeeded.

      Do not row all under one comb. Do you think that it’s really possible to get a job in a specialty, especially in economics? Do not promise, life sometimes changes direction, in any case it happens.
      P.S. Minuses are not from me. hi
      1. ty60
        ty60 18 January 2014 21: 25
        +2
        Not everything is the sun that rises in the mornings. There are a lot of people who DO NOT have higher education. Talented needleworkers. They come up with their own technologies. Not all engineers understand. Against the background of the diplomas I bought, I didn’t put a minus either. informative content criterion
    2. kush62
      kush62 19 January 2014 06: 53
      +1
      My older brother has a higher radio engineering education and a higher economic education, but he could not find himself. Not everything depends on education, but also on character and determination.
  • Yeraz
    Yeraz 18 January 2014 19: 01
    +2
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    I guessed two higher economic. But now I work as an ordinary locksmith.

    Well then, you, as a former economist, should know the simple truth of 115 million concluded then it is not those 115 million that right now. Therefore, it turns out that now this is really a symbolic sum.
  • ty60
    ty60 18 January 2014 20: 58
    0
    Exactly so. Actually, for the development of this area, the Kazakhs, as it were, should ...
    1. Kasym
      Kasym 18 January 2014 23: 53
      +9
      Eugene (TU60), but you are already almost AKSACAL. But we all went through joys and tribulations. And the hunger of the 30s (where the Kazakhs lost more than 40% of their number) and sat in the Gulags and built, and stood near Moscow to death, and rebuilt everything that was destroyed together. So now it’s our fault that almost 20% of our territory was allocated to landfills (including nuclear, which partially influenced the current state of the nuclear weapons of the Russian Federation? And what are the Kazakhs the tenth largest people in Russia, and the Russians the second largest in Kazakhstan? What didn’t even do nails, reinforcement and wire?
      And the documents are signed about the borders. And it's not for us to decide this. I would understand if the young wrote, but YOU!?
  • plotnikov561956
    plotnikov561956 18 January 2014 16: 10
    +10
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    The same as making repairs in a rented apartment - you will invest money, and they will ask you to release her tomorrow, or they will raise the rent.

    It seems like we already went through with many of our friends and brothers ... we don’t even have to list ... everything is fresh in my mind ..
    1. Suhov
      Suhov 18 January 2014 17: 28
      +8
      Quote: plotnikov561956
      It seems like we already went through with many of our friends and brothers ... we don’t even have to list ... everything is fresh in my mind ..

      That's right.
      Alternative features such as:
      - the Vostochny cosmodrome,
      - north, south and other "streams",
      - new ports,
      - etc. etc.
      contribute to the strengthening of friendship between nations.
      Now many have understood this, but until now it has not reached some of the "Balts".
      They continue to be mischievous ...
      Vodka should be drunk, not brake fluid.
      I recently heard a new "interpretation"old truth:
      "Don't hold a stone in your bosom. Keep it in your fist!"
      Rude, but honestly!
      hi
      1. ty60
        ty60 18 January 2014 21: 29
        +2
        here I’m really building the Nord Stream. Up to the design capacity. The funny thing is half the Transcarpathian finishers. Although weeping, at least laugh
  • Shpagolom
    Shpagolom 18 January 2014 16: 15
    +8
    ... confidence in the future is built on the steps and deeds of today, only joint projects will help the KZ and the Russian Federation to remain in the same Eurasian team, and together it is always easier! PS, 115 million is really not much for renting Leninsk, launch sites, etc.
    1. GreatRussia
      GreatRussia 18 January 2014 16: 19
      +2
      Quote: Shpagolom
      ... confidence in the future is built on the steps and deeds of today, only joint projects will help the KZ and the Russian Federation to remain in the same Eurasian team, and together it is always easier! PS, 115 million is really not much for renting Leninsk, launch sites, etc.

      This will work if the tens and hundreds of millions of dollars paid by Russia to Kazakhstan are not spent on "symbolism":
      It should be understood that $ 115 million is rather a symbolic amount, it does not reflect any objective parameters.

      , and on the development of the spaceport itself, etc.
      1. Shpagolom
        Shpagolom 18 January 2014 16: 33
        +2
        Do you think that KZ.not rationally spend the money received for rent?
        1. GreatRussia
          GreatRussia 18 January 2014 16: 44
          +3
          Quote: Shpagolom
          Do you think that KZ.not rationally spend the money received for rent?

          Honestly, I have no idea what Kazakhstan is spending such amounts on. And who is spending.
          I would be grateful if statistics were provided.
        2. ty60
          ty60 18 January 2014 21: 37
          0
          One thing I can admit is that it’s become very clean not only in cities. For the rest, I don’t know.
    2. Andrey57
      Andrey57 18 January 2014 16: 41
      +6
      And about the other costs for the maintenance of the cosmodrome and the city of Leninsk do not want to remember? And there is far from 115 of millions of dollars, but much more, the city is completely on the Russian budget.
      1. ty60
        ty60 18 January 2014 21: 40
        -1
        And we’ll buy textbooks in the Kazakh language. We will only teach children in Russian. Kazakh-additionally. Ethnic Kazakhs — as Nazarbayev orders.
    3. old rocket man
      old rocket man 18 January 2014 20: 10
      +1
      Quote: Shpagolom
      ... confidence in the future is built on the steps and deeds of today, only joint projects will help the KZ and the Russian Federation to remain in the same Eurasian team, and together it is always easier! PS, 115 million is really not much for renting Leninsk, launch sites, etc.


      Launching sites, Leninsk, thermal power plants, technical and residential sites were never the property of Kazakhstan, the territory is yes, everything else is not. Under all laws, it is the landlord who must ensure the operation and maintenance of the leased object, hence the cost of the lease.
      Of course, the desires of Kazakhstan are understandable, but there is no need to push and greyhound, I hope this is also clear. It is necessary to negotiate, but to agree reasonably and benevolently, without blackmail and ambition. drinks
    4. Ihrek
      Ihrek 18 January 2014 20: 44
      +3
      Quote: Shpagolom
      115 million is really not a lot for the rental of Leninsk, the start of sites, etc.

      But this is not all. And jobs for Kazakhs, infrastructure, roads, etc. Russia will leave from there and wither away, Baikonur will be bankrupt. In addition, Russia allocates more than 1 billion rubles to the local budget at no cost. But hardly anyone else will come to the place of Russia. So, getting $ 115 million without doing anything is not bad at all.
      1. Ihrek
        Ihrek 18 January 2014 21: 03
        +1
        Quote: Jamal1974
        So, getting $ 115 million without doing anything is not bad at all.

        Of course, Kazakhstan wants Russia to stay there forever. But this is possible only if the two countries are united into one state, unfortunately Kazakhstan will not go beyond the CU in my opinion.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    5. The comment was deleted.
  • Andrey KZ
    Andrey KZ 18 January 2014 16: 25
    +9
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Not a fig, symbolic, for a piece of bare steppe.

    The article has an answer to your question
    But the question of the cost of rent was never the main thing for us.
    As 20 agreed on a rental price years ago, they didn’t return to this issue. Moreover, Kazakhstan did not receive this cash in cash; due to the lease, military equipment was repaired and the Kazakhstani military was trained in the Russian Federation.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 18 January 2014 16: 49
      +5
      Quote: Andrey KZ
      Moreover, Kazakhstan did not receive this cash in cash, due to the lease repair of military equipment and training of the Kazakhstani military in the Russian Federation was carried out.

      God forbid, I do not drive a wedge between us, I just drew attention to slippery moments. After all, your management had conversations about increasing rents. hi
      1. Very old
        Very old 18 January 2014 18: 02
        .
        Gentlemen of UDODA!
        Do you want to stand apart?
        Do you want it alone? "God forbid" after you shout (not a fig for YOU?)
        1. ty60
          ty60 18 January 2014 21: 43
          +2
          Do not be rude, please. I do not care what you zhuz
    2. old rocket man
      old rocket man 18 January 2014 20: 12
      -1
      Quote: Andrey KZ
      at the expense of the lease, military equipment was repaired and the Kazakhstani military was trained in the Russian Federation.


      And this, you must understand, is it worth nothing? laughing
      1. Andrey KZ
        Andrey KZ 18 January 2014 20: 41
        +1
        Quote: old rocket
        Quote: Andrey KZ
        at the expense of the lease, military equipment was repaired and the Kazakhstani military was trained in the Russian Federation.


        And this, you must understand, is it worth nothing? laughing

        Of course it’s worth, but this money remained in Russia.
        1. old rocket man
          old rocket man 20 January 2014 09: 14
          +1
          Quote: Andrey KZ
          Of course it’s worth, but this money remained in Russia


          Well, just like the Jews,
          Well, let's pay the rent, but you will pay for the repair and training, and what will change? The amount does not change from the change of location.
          And this is called offsets, the usual practice in the calculations, and if you want to go for a walk, then please wassat
          1. Andrey KZ
            Andrey KZ 20 January 2014 17: 22
            +1
            Quote: Old Rocketman
            And this is called offsetting, the usual practice in the calculations,

            That's right, and it’s also called mutually beneficial cooperation, it’s just that some people claim that Kazakhstan puts huge amounts of money into one wicket.
      2. Kasym
        Kasym 18 January 2014 20: 44
        +3
        It is understood that ordinary Kazakhstanis do not see anything from this. That is, living money does not go to the budget of the Republic of Kazakhstan.
        And one more fact - the lease was signed in 1998. Ask how the cosmodrome survived before, and at whose expense. I will prompt. Yeltsin and Putin were very grateful to the hands of the republic. But just for what?
  • Andrey57
    Andrey57 18 January 2014 16: 38
    +6
    So there, more than 5 billion rubles are spent annually on the very maintenance of the cosmodrome and the city, so in comparison with them, the rent may really seem "symbolic". And if Mr. Musabayev dreams not of a "symbolic" one, then Kazakhstan will have to finance both the city and the cosmodrome from the budget. And the remark about the fact that Kazakhstan is striving to become an independent space power just smiled. hi
    1. Andrey KZ
      Andrey KZ 18 January 2014 16: 50
      +8
      Andrei, Kazakhstan has long wanted to participate in the life of the city and the spaceport, to invest its finances, to join the stake, so to speak. Please note that Kazakhstan DOES NOT ASK for money, but offers it. And why not, it’s not a secret that it’s hard for Russia to drag all the programs, you still have modernization of the Armed Forces, why not combine your efforts and money, and not forget some large-scale program?
      1. Samaritan
        Samaritan 18 January 2014 16: 57
        +8
        Better yet, unite in one state, all problems will be resolved immediately !!! Sorry for an unrealizable idea !!!
        1. Onizuka teacher
          Onizuka teacher 18 January 2014 17: 40
          +4
          Quote: Samaritan
          Better yet, unite in one state, all problems will be resolved immediately !!! Sorry for an unrealizable idea !!!

          Oh my God! Well, when will you forget about associations? We personally do not need this, we would like to unite. Friendship is friendship at home in strife.
          1. ty60
            ty60 18 January 2014 21: 47
            +1
            Who voluntarily gave up power? They didn’t then share it. The sovereigns divorced ...
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. kush62
          kush62 18 January 2014 18: 39
          +3
          Better yet, unite in one state, all problems will be resolved immediately !!! Sorry for an unrealizable idea !!!

          Pros ... ral boriska unfortunately ...
        4. Ram chandra
          Ram chandra 19 January 2014 01: 09
          +2
          According to your cries in the direction of the union states - YOU, it is up to you, and not us, to unification is very far away. That's when every YOUR citizen will behave in a culturally and benevolent manner towards us, then only you can open your mouth to unite.
          Now we only see the negative from you. If it is, it means that we deserve it, or that YOUR disposition still needs to be earned. And therefore ??? no time to unite!
      2. Ascetic
        Ascetic 18 January 2014 17: 58
        +21
        Quote: Andrey KZ
        Kazakhstan has long wanted to participate in the life of the city and the spaceport, to invest its finances, to join the stake, so to speak. Please note that Kazakhstan DOES NOT ASK for money, but offers it


        I have already told your colleagues from Kazakhstan on the website while Popovkin is in Roscosmos and the chairman of the interdepartmental commission, Shuvalov, will not let you go anywhere, on the contrary, they have paid 2 billion dollars. with Baiterek, there, to put it mildly, other priorities than cooperation and attraction of Kazakhstan, on the contrary .. Popovkin even rubbed Rogozin's glasses on the terms of commissioning of current facilities in Uglegorsk. Last year, he squealed there at a meeting calling everyone saboteurs, our organization also got it, although we had nothing to do with our tasks prepared, arrived on time, but let down the subcontractors, they wanted to write off everything for the flood, but it did not work out. For which Popovkin paid it was already the last straw that overflowed the bowl of his "constructive jambs". With Ostapenko, now I hope you will have the opportunity to negotiate with Russia even to the detriment of our interests, I emphasize this... For such is the political task set by the supreme commander.
        1. Onizuka teacher
          Onizuka teacher 18 January 2014 18: 21
          +8
          Ascetic appreciate your wisdom, shoot rarely but very accurately!
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. avt
          avt 18 January 2014 19: 43
          +2
          Quote: Ascetic
          I now hope with Ostapenko that you will have the opportunity to negotiate with Russia even to the detriment of our interests. I emphasize this ... For such is the political task set by the Supreme Commander.

          Who knows, who knows. Here at Vysotsky - “Will by will, but if the forces are not in the turn? And I got carried away, I jerked ten thousand like five hundred and baked. "Something tells me that all this is a" civilized divorce ", yes, they will give the site from Zenit, Leninsk will be transferred smoothly, well, as long as we have interest to the objects without which we cannot. But there is no single program, which Kasym speaks about, and is not foreseen. There will be no longer any work as the cosmodrome worked in Soviet times - a medical fact. It's a pity.
          1. Kasym
            Kasym 19 January 2014 03: 21
            +4
            I meant joint projects. It’s a no brainer that the Russian Federation has "secret" things. Moreover, the National Academy of Sciences declared about the interest of the Republic of Kazakhstan in the East. It is a fact . And what, besides money, can we help, based on logic?
            "Since the cosmodrome worked during the Soviet era." If we are rich and there is a need, I see no problem. Generally .
            Ascetic, as always. + Our Soviet Man! If you say something, that from the Fourth Zhuz - the Kazakhs will understand everything and the beshparmak is provided. hi
            1. kush62
              kush62 19 January 2014 11: 12
              0
              Why beshparmak and not beshbarmak?
              1. aksakal
                aksakal 21 January 2014 07: 26
                0
                Quote: kush62
                Why beshparmak and not beshbarmak?

                - generally besbarmak smile
    2. Jeber
      Jeber 18 January 2014 16: 50
      +5
      And there is nothing to smile! This amount is spent on the autocracy of the city itself, where Roskomos employees live! This is what Comrade Musabaev meant! If you judge so, then the Russian Federation will spend the same amount if it transfers the city to the balance of the Republic of Kazakhstan and will operate its shift camp (following the example of oil workers). So here the amount is just for show.


      You are right, we want to become a space power since the entire object will remain unsuitable after the departure of your personnel. We want to continue to operate it for its intended purpose. We also sponsored the Baiterek project, which was largely based on the Hangar project. Noooooo RF threw us so to speak. We never saw any money or documentation! What do you think it was fraternally?
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 18 January 2014 17: 00
        0
        Quote: Jeber
        And there is nothing to smile! This amount is spent on autocracy the city itself, where Roskomos employees live!

        You mean content? laughing But does Russia not pay utility bills separately?
        Quote: Jeber
        We also sponsored the Baiterek project, which was largely based on the Hangar project.

        In what ratio?
      2. Andrey57
        Andrey57 18 January 2014 17: 06
        +13
        Nobody threw you with the "Angara", just the conditions for the "Baiterek" project, put forward by the same Musabayev, were such that it was decided that it would be easier to build another cosmodrome. So do not blame your sore head on a healthy one, it is only now that Musabayev began to speak "affectionately", and earlier he did not differ in this very accommodatingness and realism of his conditions, we will not even remember how many agreed starts were deliberately thwarted by dragging out bureaucratic delays by the department the same Musabayev.
        As for the fact that "we ourselves would like to operate the cosmodrome complexes" - this is from the realm of fantasy, since they are all made for specific launch vehicles. If you force Russia to leave Baikonur, as was done in Azerbaijan in Gabala, then there will be simply nothing to start up from Baikonur, and to launch foreign missiles there it will be necessary to rebuild everything, and this is absolutely unnecessary, since the rest of the potential clients there are cosmodromes much to the south, respectively, they can carry a large load into orbit with their carriers and not spend money on rebuilding launch pads at Baikonur.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Andrey KZ
          Andrey KZ 20 January 2014 17: 36
          +1
          Quote: Andrey57
          Nobody threw you with the "Angara", just the conditions for the "Baiterek" project, put forward by the same Musabayev, were such that it was decided that it would be easier to build another cosmodrome. So do not get off your sore head on a healthy one,

          For your approval, I will simply quote the ASKET
          I have long told your colleagues from Kazakhstan on the website while Popovkin is in Roskosmos and the chairman of the inter-commission commission Shuvalov will not let you go anywhere, on the contrary they divorced you for 2bn. with Baiterek, to put it mildly, other priorities than cooperation and attracting Kazakhstan, on the contrary ..
      3. ty60
        ty60 18 January 2014 21: 57
        0
        All Russians, my friend, brotherly squeezed out of Kazakhstan into Russia, were accepted. Have the economists calculated the price of the question? And send compensation? Everything is fraternal.
    3. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 18 January 2014 16: 53
      -1
      Quote: Andrey57
      5 billion rubles annually

      5 billion rubles is only 15,5 million dollars. Rent much more. But in general, the thoughts are correct. hi
      1. Andrey57
        Andrey57 18 January 2014 17: 16
        +5
        Ingvar, I apologize, in the "heat of discussion" confused the order of the numbers, this is what Kazakh officials themselves are talking about: "Meirbek Moldabekov explained to the parliamentarians that the annual expenses of the Russian Federation on Baikonur are not limited to $ 115 million. According to Moldabekov,“ in addition, Russia annually spends $ 100 million to maintain the facilities of Baikonur in operational condition and another $ 100 million to maintain the life of the cosmodrome, that is, the Russian Federation is investing about $ 315 million in the cosmodrome. ”Moreover, Moldabekov believes that these costs already seem excessive to Moscow. That is why a decision was made to build a new cosmodrome in the Far East. In 10 years, when it goes into operation, Russia may cancel the lease of Baikonur ahead of schedule, the deputy chairman of the National Space Agency of Kazakhstan warned the deputies. "
        1. ty60
          ty60 18 January 2014 22: 10
          -2
          Everyone must bear his own cross.
      2. S-200
        S-200 18 January 2014 18: 39
        +2
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        5 billion rubles is only 15,5 million dollars.

        but it seemed to me that 5 billion rubles is about 150 million dollars wink
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 18 January 2014 20: 20
          0
          Quote: S-200
          and it seemed to me that 5 billion rubles is about 150 million dollars

          Now it's time for me to apologize, when dividing zero on the calculator, I didn’t do it. repeat
  • The comment was deleted.
  • APASUS
    APASUS 18 January 2014 18: 29
    +8
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    The same as making repairs in a rented apartment - you will invest money, and they will ask you to release her tomorrow, or they will rent

    Yes, it is only incomprehensible to our partners! The situation was the same with hundreds of objects throughout the former USSR. Who except Baikonur needs Russia? Kazakhstan simply cannot pull it technically and financially. The situation was the same with Mukachevo, Gabala, Skrunda, Irbene. As soon as Russia left there, the object was pulled apart for the floor years, the local MO as a rule such infa and opportunities are not needed.
    That's what remains in Irbene Secret RT-32 radio telescope
    1. ty60
      ty60 18 January 2014 22: 15
      0
      Kazakhs do not want to understand this. We sponsored Yanukovych. And they blew up Daryaly at home.
      1. Kasym
        Kasym 19 January 2014 00: 03
        +1
        Darial, as far as I know, did not really have time to put into operation. Russia itself blew up, not us. Therefore, the old one is working now. There is talk of a new one in our territory.
        1. marshes
          marshes 19 January 2014 00: 09
          +5
          Quote: Kasym
          , did not really have time to put into operation

          There were condensation tanks there, terrible chemistry only the Germans agreed to process them, it was about three years ago. For that they began to be allowed to rare-earth metals.
          1. Kasym
            Kasym 19 January 2014 03: 22
            +3
            Oh how! Thank you, SWAMP! hi
  • Civil
    Civil 18 January 2014 18: 45
    +4
    The Ukrainian Verkhovna Rada and the State Duma of the Russian Federation on Tuesday ratified an agreement to extend the stay of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol for 25 years after 2017. The issue’s price - $ 100 million a year in real money - is not much more than what Russia is paying now. As part of the rent for the Black Sea Fleet based in the Crimea, the gas discount that Russia provided to Ukraine will also be taken into account.

    This is plus another 30% discount on gas, a $ 15 billion loan that no one is going to give.

    So the miserable $ 115 is bullshit compared to the requests of the "brotherly" people.

    And yet, if the power changes in Ukraine, the Chernomortsev will kick or start crap like under Yushchenko.
  • 225chay
    225chay 18 January 2014 18: 59
    +4
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Not a fig, symbolic, for a piece of bare steppe. But another thing is alarming, the idea that it seems nice to us to stay there, sounded only after Russia began to actively build the Vostochny spaceport. Geographically and geopolitically, Baikanur is more convenient, but I would like confidence in the future, because he needs a major modernization, and this is not cheap. The same as making repairs in a rented apartment - you will invest the money, and they will ask you to release her tomorrow, or they will raise the rent.

    Absolutely true!
    Today, people in the leadership are sane, as Talgat said, and tomorrow some pro-Chinese or pro-Anglo-Saxon comrades will come and issue an invoice of $ 115 billion, or they will say "get the unfaithful out of here" from our land, and leave the little things ...
    So what you want, if you don’t want, you need to have your own spaceport, or even two
  • ty60
    ty60 18 January 2014 20: 43
    -2
    it’s as always_you will leave and who will bring the money? Only for what you are here. It looks like the naval forces of Kazakhstan in the PAVLODAR area. All infrastructure is funded by Russia and now Kazakh textbooks have been sold with the program. You can bargain, give Russia the original Cossack lands-Uralsk and Guryev (otyrau). Almost all the Russian-speaking population was squeezed out from there. It will be possible to print textbooks in ALL of Kazakhstan in response,
  • Tersky
    Tersky 18 January 2014 20: 47
    +5
    Sorry for the offtopic, but it's worth it-"From Cyprus came the sensational news that the Russian Armed Forces will be able to fully use the services of the Cypriot Andreas Papandreou airbase in Paphos and the main port of Limassol. It was with this wording (" The Russian military will now be given full use of a Cypriot airbase and the main port at Limassol ") On January 10, the influential local newspaper Famagusta Gazette published an article "The Russian army receives the coveted bridgehead in Cyprus". Other Cypriot media, for example Cyprus Weeklyalso confirm this information. " Fully read here.
  • Geisenberg
    Geisenberg 18 January 2014 21: 22
    +5
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Not a fig, symbolic, for a piece of bare steppe


    Not just a piece of steppe, but a piece of steppe with a spaceport. 115 this is actually a purely symbolic figure, should in theory be an order of magnitude higher.

    About the rest. A person correctly says everything - it is necessary to negotiate.
  • machete
    machete 18 January 2014 21: 40
    +3
    115 million not for the bare steppe. Several starting tables with the appropriate equipment and infrastructure.
  • pawel1961
    pawel1961 19 January 2014 00: 19
    0
    I agree to all 100%.
  • 2014Bog2014
    2014Bog2014 19 January 2014 05: 45
    0
    I totally agree with you!
  • 2014Bog2014
    2014Bog2014 19 January 2014 06: 45
    +1
    I agree ha 100% hi
  • aksakal
    aksakal 20 January 2014 07: 43
    +2
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    But another thing is alarming, the idea that it seems nice to us to stay there, sounded only after Russia began to actively build the Vostochny spaceport.

    -something, dear, you are thinking about the fact that before East Kazakhstan you were thinking of driving Russia away from Baikonur. Not overslept, or what? Talgat Musabaev has never said such a thing! He is a sober politician and a good manager, after all, an astronaut (and they didn’t take imbeciles there in Soviet times) and a technician scientist. Nazarabev did not say anything like that either. All other statements on Baikonur from any heads of opposition parties or even deputies can be put upside down - they are NOT AUTHORIZED in the topic of Baikonur! If we would seriously take all of your Zhirinovsky’s statements regarding Kazakhstan, then relations between Kazakhstan and Russia would be worse than with Georgia! So calm down, read statements on Baikonur only from the author of the Sabzh and the President of the Republic of Kazakhstan, only they are authorized to make any statements on Baikonur and generally on the space theme.
  • plotnikov561956
    plotnikov561956 18 January 2014 16: 07
    +12
    The algorithm of the Baikonur-Vostochny chain is easily tracked .. if the Kazakhs gently spoke on the issue of Baikonur ... therefore, you don’t need to go to your grandmother. Things are going well in the East ..
    1. Guun
      Guun 18 January 2014 16: 57
      +4
      To be honest, the people and I personally support the closure of Baikonur. In the Karaganda region, the city of Karaganda, a complete cancer oncology - so let this Musabaev help these poor people before trying garbage and nonsense. Let in the East, not poorer than a couple of bureaucrats.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 18 January 2014 17: 13
        +5
        Quote: Guun
        Karaganda full cancer oncology

        Yes, this situation is not only yours, not the fact that the spaceport is to blame, look at what we eat and drink.
      2. avt
        avt 18 January 2014 18: 01
        +8
        Quote: Guun
        Let in the East,

        Will definitely be.
        Quote: Guun
        so let this Musabaev help these poor people before trying to rubbish bullshit and nonsense.

        It's funny, that Proton is so and so and not environmentally friendly, but Musabaev, who is flying Dnipro on practically the same kind of poison, is happy to put on Baikonur. laughing In general, from all this blizzard from the ex-cosmonaut, it follows only - “There will be more subdivisions of the authorities of the Republic of Kazakhstan in the city, which will provide state services according to Kazakh legislation.”, Read Kazakh precinct police officers, the Russians will smoothly take the city as they move from Leninsk Well, this is an objective reality, let it be the way it was before - first, the houses will be looted, the windows will be taken out, and then - we moved in, make us beautiful. The next thing is, "We agreed and fixed on paper that the project Baiterek will be implemented using the Zenit launch vehicle. By January 2015, this complex will be withdrawn from the lease of Russia and transferred to Kazakhstan, which will bear the cost of its maintenance - this is about $ 10 million. using the complex, it’s not that we will work there and launch rockets on our own. We realize that today it is impossible.We plan to modernize Zenit in the future in order to create a heavy-class rocket on the basis of this complex, so that later it could replace the Proton. "But this right is fun, especially in the light of what he said below," We still do not fully understand what will happen to Sea Launch, the situation here is not clear to us, we will talk about this topic. start ", which now belongs to RSC Energia, exclusive rights to marketing the Zenit rocket. There is still to understand and understand. But the main thing is that the decision as a whole has been made, and I think we will be able to agree on the details in the future." laughing We say we talk, and you work, that's all you need to become - “Our country is planning to become a space power." ?? Or maybe it's better to figure it out first? But this is not our business - with a mustache, they know that At best, as we have already said, we will leave Leninsk in a civilized manner, the rest is written with pitchforks on the water, especially a heavy rocket based on Zenith, the future “space power.” But this is another story and not ours at all ...
        1. marshes
          marshes 18 January 2014 18: 26
          +5
          Quote: avt
          “Dnipro” Musabaev is happy to put on “Baikonur”.

          Musabaev does not want to deliver the Dnepr program to Baikonur; Kazakhstan launches satellites from the Orenburg region are just expected to launch; according to the first agreement, the launch was supposed to be in January this year, until it was postponed to May.
          And then you have to rent three remote sensing satellites from France.
          France will send another satellite into space, in the near future the truth is from Kourou, they refused to launch this satellite with the help of Roscosmos.
          1. Kasym
            Kasym 18 January 2014 18: 50
            +5
            Marshes, salem! Thanks for the info, very interesting. There is simply no time to delve into, and this topic is very interesting to me.
            And we will still be doing satellites, judging by the words of Musabaev. I must, I think, take a direction that is poorly developed or ruined in the Russian Federation, so that the Allies understand that we are not going to compete. hi
            1. marshes
              marshes 18 January 2014 19: 05
              +6
              Quote: Kasym
              Thanks for the info, very interesting

              The French are not a bad companion for us.
              Remember Kasymov provided satellite images that were taken after the events in the Aksai gorge, these are the French.
            2. ty60
              ty60 18 January 2014 22: 26
              +4
              but these are already the words of an ally and brother. Neither take away nor add. And at the same time help each other with existing developments. It looks more promising!
          2. avt
            avt 18 January 2014 19: 15
            +1
            Quote: marshes
            Musabaev does not want to put Dnepr program on Baikonur

            There, at Baikonur, there is already a table.
            1. marshes
              marshes 18 January 2014 19: 18
              +3
              Quote: avt
              There, at Baikonur, there is already a table

              The one that still did not have time to pour concrete?
              Strategic Rocket Forces left.
        2. S-200
          S-200 18 January 2014 18: 42
          +4
          so there (in Leninsk) and so the settlement steppes goes with might and main, with all the colorful features of being ... bully
          Need statistics on residents of Leninsk?
          there you are :
          The population is 73 people (as of January 127, 1).
          As of January 1, 2011 the number of registered in the city of Kazakhstan citizens was 37,1 тыс. people.
        3. ty60
          ty60 18 January 2014 22: 22
          +1
          And naval forces. Like a Zenith rocket. Heavy ..
      3. sevtrash
        sevtrash 18 January 2014 19: 02
        +6
        Quote: Guun
        To be honest, the people and I personally are for closing

        The phrase, of course, is interesting - ... the people and I ..., although not vice versa, and that’s good. Isn’t it too cool to consider your opinion as the opinion of the people?

        And the next one is also not weak - "... the city of Karaganda, complete oncology of cancer ..."
        In any city in any country in the oncology department are patients with cancer and, unfortunately, filled.
      4. old rocket man
        old rocket man 18 January 2014 20: 25
        +6
        Quote: Guun
        To be honest, the people and I personally support the closure of Baikonur. In the Karaganda region, the city of Karaganda, a complete cancer oncology


        Where is the sea, and where is the ship?
        To reduce oncology, it is necessary to reclaim coal dumps and demolish panel houses where coal slag, which gives an increased radioactive background, was used as filler in the panels. And listen less to the grannies on the bench.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • AIR-ZNAK
    AIR-ZNAK 18 January 2014 16: 25
    +12
    Brother Kazakh does not agree on something. It seems to me that just the following- ** We’ll squeeze you out anyway from Baikonur, but by this time you should hand over to us modernized and serviceable launcher systems and prepare our national specialists ** And do we need this ????
    1. Andrey57
      Andrey57 18 January 2014 16: 53
      +12
      By this time, you will hand over to us modernized and serviceable sets of starting devices and prepare our national specialists


      And there is no sense, all the launching positions were built purely for specific launch vehicles, moreover, in the equipment of launch pads, almost all structures were made in the USSR / Russia. It is impossible to launch anything else from them without a global restructuring of the entire launch complex, and this is practically building a new one. Accordingly, only Russian missiles can be launched there. Energia has exclusive rights to Zenit. It turns out that if Russia stops making starts from Baikonur, then no one will do it at all, and Leninsk will again turn into what it was in the early 90s - into boxes without windows and doors, when the progressive population of independent Kazakhstan pulled out even the window frames.
      This is the reason for Musabaev’s affectionate speeches, and things are clearly going better at the new cosmodrome than he would have liked.
      1. ty60
        ty60 18 January 2014 22: 30
        0
        and at the same time create a Zenith production in the form of a rental fee, not a rental fee. Have you asked for it so far in the open?
    2. avt
      avt 18 January 2014 18: 20
      +2
      Quote: AIR-ZNAK
      By this time, you will hand over to us modernized and serviceable sets of starting devices and prepare our national specialists ** And do we need this ????

      Well, judging by how VVP, following this "road map", polished the industry leadership on camera on the issue of inadmissibility of delaying the deadlines for the execution of work at "Vostochny" - but for nothing.
      Quote: Andrey57
      This is the reason for Musabaev’s affectionate speeches,

      Concerning the "cooperation" in the creation of a new "space power" ?? Well, he's not really fool , he understands that only money can be made, and there is no one to work there. Here, MAREK has already voiced the methodology for the formation of a new "great space power" - for two a month in Baku, all Russian and Ukrainian specialists will line up, the Kazakhs will not have time to select the necessary ones.
      1. ty60
        ty60 18 January 2014 22: 33
        +2
        even Moldovans with Transcarpathians and Magyars are selected.
  • FREGATENKAPITAN
    FREGATENKAPITAN 18 January 2014 16: 32
    0
    ..We would like....... They wanted, of course they wanted, ..... in which case there was something to blackmail Russia, as it was just recently ................ Symbolic, not symbolic payment, but built by Baikonur Well, not Kazakhstan at all, but the USSR, or rather Russia. I think that it would be enough for Kazakhstan, that Russia would share with it the results of space and defense research and work (the same GLONASS, TV, communications and the like)
  • AIR-ZNAK
    AIR-ZNAK 18 January 2014 16: 44
    +3
    I have minuses for the comment and I have pluses. It's good. So the topic itself hurts people for the living. And the truth is born in the discussion, and not the opinion of one person
  • avg
    avg 18 January 2014 16: 48
    0
    At Baikonur, there will finally be an opportunity to train children in schools in Kazakhstan’s education standards and issue Kazakhstan-style education documents. Now, even in the Kazakh schools of the city of Baikonur, education is carried out according to Russian programs, according to Russian textbooks translated into Kazakh. Earlier it came to the fact that Kazakhstani children learned from these textbooks that our homeland is Russia, the capital is Moscow.

    And what are the difficulties? In order to write, or just say, my homeland is Kazakhstan, the capital Astana was lacking an intergovernmental agreement? I am afraid, as it were now, in administrative delight, local officials did not go to the other extreme. And then specialists will run away from there and soon there will be nothing to share.
    1. nikcris
      nikcris 18 January 2014 17: 11
      0
      here you are mistaken! Today, any Kazakh will tell you that his capital is Astana, tomorrow is the Kyzyl-Horde, the day after tomorrow is Alma-Ata, then Orenburg, and further on Beijing.
      PS And the experts will not run - they are there on a business trip from Russia.
      1. Onizuka teacher
        Onizuka teacher 18 January 2014 17: 44
        +7
        And you, any Russian will say where his pope is well there and his homeland. Isn't that so? But then why are you writing this? And also your PEOPLE artists live in the USA and celebrated the New Year there in YOUR houses, but they toured the Russian Federation, but apart from Sergey Zverev who was relaxing at the SEA hotel. So whose cow would moo.
        1. marshes
          marshes 18 January 2014 18: 02
          +9
          Quote: Teacher Onizuka
          but besides Sergey Zverev who was relaxing at the hotel SEA

          Off-topic, Serega Zverev used to live and work in Almaty in a hairdressing salon in the area of ​​Baitursynov (Cosmonauts) and Shevchenko, closer to Zhambul. Nearby is a culinary specialist and Tropican.
        2. nikcris
          nikcris 18 January 2014 18: 03
          +9
          People’s, and especially Zverev, are never our people.
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. FREGATENKAPITAN
          FREGATENKAPITAN 18 January 2014 19: 20
          +3
          Yes, not everyone will say that OUR oligarchs and artists live in London, YES! Only their names are Abramovich, Alikperov, Berezovsky, Friedman, Abramov, Khan, Deripaska, Kobzon ... and other, other ...... and everything is immediately obvious to the Russians! So that the cows in your stall moo more
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. ty60
      ty60 18 January 2014 22: 38
      0
      Russian citizens living in Kazakhstan are not obliged to study in the Kazakh language. The indigenous nation has every right to do this. What is stopping you? Kazakhs do not want to spend a little money on their own?
      1. Egoza
        Egoza 18 January 2014 22: 56
        +4
        Quote: ty60
        Russian citizens living in Kazakhstan are not required to study in the Kazakh language.

        Learning all subjects in Kazakh is not required. But to know the Kazakh language is a must. This is the only way to maintain mutual respect and in the future avoid youth clashes.
  • andrei332809
    andrei332809 18 January 2014 16: 51
    +10
    Finally, we managed to enter the territory of our own spaceport,

    about how ... the heritage of the entire Soviet people is the property of a separate republic. and the cosmodrome is alive thanks to the money and specialists of the Russian Federation.
    I am waiting for indignation posts from sovereign citizens of the Republic of Kazakhstan fellow
  • AnpeL
    AnpeL 18 January 2014 16: 57
    +3
    But once the territory of the north of present Kazakhstan belonged to Russia
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Guun
      Guun 18 January 2014 17: 11
      -6
      Yes? Or maybe the whole SA was Russia? The lands of the south, Russia belonged to the nomads, Omsk, Orsk, Orenburg and a couple of lands where these cities were built - although it’s simply pointless to explain to a person who does not know stories.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 18 January 2014 17: 24
        +17
        A picture from a Kazakhstan history book? In the Baltic states, pictures in textbooks are cooler. laughing What historical period does this map cover?
        1. ekzorsist
          ekzorsist 20 January 2014 20: 55
          -2
          This is not the most "modern map" on the "new world history of Kazakhstan" ... there is also a cooler one, but they are not yet shown much ... they are probably shy.
      2. andrei332809
        andrei332809 18 January 2014 17: 36
        +2
        Quote: Guun
        The lands of the south, Russia belonged to nomads, Omsk, Orsk, Orenburg

        I advise you to read "St. Petersburg Ambassador" Sergeev A.N.
      3. 11111mail.ru
        11111mail.ru 18 January 2014 18: 23
        +4
        Quote: Guun
        The land of the south, Russia belonged to nomads

        Then tell me about the Blue Horde. Tell the people how the Kirghiz built your "zhuzes" by rank. What written sources were you guided by the publication of your tricolor picture?
        1. Onizuka teacher
          Onizuka teacher 18 January 2014 21: 31
          +6
          Quote: 11111mail.ru
          Then tell me about the Blue Horde. Tell the people how the Kirghiz built your "zhuzes" by rank. What written sources did you follow when publishing your three-color picture?

          The Blue Horde or the Khanate of Abulkhair, in short, the state of nomadic Uzbeks from which Dzhanybek and Kerey separated, migrated to the territory of Mogolistan. What are the Kyrgyz? Each territory had its own kind, of which the largest at that time were Kipchaks, Arguns and Naimans who were the main backbone of the White Horde Kasym. And what does the Kyrgyz have to do with it?
        2. The comment was deleted.
      4. The comment was deleted.
      5. FREGATENKAPITAN
        FREGATENKAPITAN 18 January 2014 19: 23
        +2
        Do not confuse dear colleague- historian, concept state and the area for nomadic lamb and horses, I'm sorry I do not rebuke, but the Kazakhs didn’t even have a written language ... what state is there ???
        1. Onizuka teacher
          Onizuka teacher 18 January 2014 20: 52
          +4
          Quote: FREGATENKAPITAN
          but the Kazakhs didn’t even have a written language ... what state is there ???

          Oh come on! Ancient Türkic runic writing (Orkhon-Yenisei script) - a writing used in Central Asia for recordings in Turkic languages ​​in the XNUMXth – XNUMXth centuries.

          Orkhon-Yenisei writing served a single literary language (sub-dialect koyne) of that time, which is usually called the language of Orkhon-Yenisei inscriptions.

          Researchers distinguish 7 groups (belonging, respectively): Lensko-Baikal (Kurykan), Yenisei (Kyrgyz Kaganate), Mongolian (East Turkic Kaganate), Altai (West Turkic Kaganate), East Turkestan (Uyghur Kaganate in Mongolia), Central Asia (Uyghur state in East Turkestan), Eastern European (Bulgars, Khazars and Pechenegs).

          The names are given: 1) in the form of signs resembling Germanic runes; 2) according to the places of finds in the Orkhon valley (Second Turkic Kaganate) and the upper Yenisei (Kyrgyz Kaganate). The alphabet of the classical period (VIII century A.D.) in the Orkhon variety consisted of 38 letters and a word mark. In total, taking into account regional and chronological options, there are more than 50 graphemes. The direction of the letter is horizontal, from right to left. A word-mark is placed between the words, the end of the sentence is not beaten off. The alphabetical order is unknown, and most likely was not traditionally fixed.

          Ancient Türkic runic writing is an alphabetic (not syllable) system: individual signs designate either vowels or consonants (a total of 25-26 phonemes); about ten letters are used to convey combinations of two consonants or a vowel with a consonant. The original feature of the letter is the presence of pairs of independent letters for most velar and palatal consonants. This made it possible to construct the writing system in such a way as not to write out broad root vowels and, in most cases, all vowels of affix syllables, with the exception of finite open syllables, saving on the length of words.

          Has only a capitalization spelling. Do not write nonsense just do not know what it is about! Questions? Oh yes, as for the states, study the Turkic Khaganates and throw away the nonsense about the backwardness of the steppe.
          1. Yeraz
            Yeraz 18 January 2014 21: 32
            +1
            Quote: Teacher Onizuka
            Do not write nonsense just do not know what it is about! Questions? Oh yes, as for the states, study the Turkic Khaganates and throw away the nonsense about the backwardness of the steppe.

            Remember, Azerbaijanis were in trend. Right now it’s gone to Kazakov. So that they don’t speak, before the Russians came to Turkic (and indeed to other lands) they were all monkeys. They let us down, washed, dressed, taught us to read their alphabet (Cyrillic is their considered) taught to write, but we are all so ungrateful))
            The features of the macaw are firmly embedded in many personalities))
            1. Veteran Vlad.
              Veteran Vlad. 18 January 2014 22: 53
              +3
              And what do you and your countrymen live in Russia then, live in your own sunny Azerbaijan
            2. cherkas.oe
              cherkas.oe 19 January 2014 01: 41
              +1
              Quote: Yeraz
              They let us down, washed, dressed, taught us to read their alphabet (Cyrillic is considered them) taught to write, but we are all so ungrateful))

              Well, why did you, such intelligent cultural and ancient people, have not created an empire with "your" culture, science, etc. "Most-pri-most" advanced among you Turks, Turks, and they do not know how to fly into space, what is that, huh? With the "parking brake" as you can not remove?
              1. smersh70
                smersh70 19 January 2014 02: 00
                +1
                Quote: cherkas.oe
                their "culture, science, etc." Most-prized-most "advanced among you Türks, Turks, and

                let-let, who got to Vienna, who held someone else for 300 years .... wassat
                Quote: cherkas.oe
                they don’t know how to fly into space,

                surprised by space .. so everyone is already flying there .. and the Iranians and Chinese .. and those who pay 15 million dollars as a tourist ....
                who told you this - we already have our own satellite ... not to mention the Turks .... and the Kazakh astronaut ...
                and about the ancients-tipun to your tongue, otherwise our neighbors will be offended. They are the oldest ..)))))))))))))
                1. Veteran Vlad.
                  Veteran Vlad. 19 January 2014 14: 25
                  0
                  "excuse me, excuse me, who got to Vienna," excuse me, excuse me, but who got LULEY there, and then more than once received in the Balkans from Prince Eugene of Savoy?
              2. Yeraz
                Yeraz 20 January 2014 00: 19
                +3
                Quote: cherkas.oe
                Well, why did you, such intelligent cultural and ancient people, have not created an empire with "your" culture, science, etc.

                Having written this, you have already shown where your knowledge and culture are. At leisure, read about the Turkic empires.
                Quote: cherkas.oe
                The most advanced among you Türks, Turks, and they do not know how to fly into space, what is that, and

                Then, according to your version, 90% of nations are unwashed, uncultured monkeys, because only a few people know how to fly into space (I mean the whole production and sending cycle. Because the Azerbaijani astronauts were in space and the Turkic countries have satellites). So all cultures are worthless only because that they don’t know how to fly into space, cool logic.
          2. sevtrash
            sevtrash 18 January 2014 22: 45
            +3
            The Kazakh language belongs to the Nogai-Kypchak branch, the Kypchak subgroup. The literary Kazakh language took shape in the 2nd half of the 19th century, and the Arabic font was used.
            Orkho-Yenisei belongs to another branch, isn’t it, teacher?
          3. FREGATENKAPITAN
            FREGATENKAPITAN 18 January 2014 23: 11
            +1
            Based on the foregoing, it does not follow that the Kazakhs had an alphabet and writing, By the way, the letters came from somewhere from the Cyrillic alphabet ............................ ..In general, in the Ukrainian yellow press, Adam is seriously considered a Ukrainian, as well as the fact that all languages ​​originated from Ukrainian, I will not be too lazy to look for a link .................... Not take the trouble, dear, to prove something, no one says -kazakh- this is bad, Just the meaning of everything that has been said in the discussion is to remain people, do not repeat the mistakes of the late 80s and early 90s - "Russians get out", ..... Do not to think that we have forgotten everything
          4. The comment was deleted.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. ty60
          ty60 18 January 2014 22: 45
          -1
          The current one was invented only in the USSR
      6. volvo
        volvo 18 January 2014 21: 54
        -1
        YOU ARE NOT ABLE) THIS IS THE LAND OF KALMYKOV!
      7. ty60
        ty60 18 January 2014 22: 43
        -2
        globe of Kazakhstan
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Guun
      Guun 18 January 2014 17: 17
      +4
      But the present Baltic states belonged to Russia once. Yes, and these cards are taken from Russian sources.
      1. Tersky
        Tersky 18 January 2014 17: 34
        +9
        Quote: Guun
        But the present Baltic states belonged to Pрossiйand when

        What is so small bite? Have you forgotten about Alaska? Finland, Poland?
        1. Onizuka teacher
          Onizuka teacher 18 January 2014 17: 48
          +7
          AnpeL began, and the respected Gahan answered. Who first started? Here, the fool is understandable. Let's not touch the territories of the neighbors well? What was what was and what wasn’t but also the troll with her.
          1. Tersky
            Tersky 18 January 2014 18: 07
            +5
            Quote: Teacher Onizuka
            AnpeL began, and the respected Gahan answered.

            You are a part-time cadi. That's just how it turns out strangely, "AnpeL" for some reason is just "AnpeL" and Gahan is "respected". The fact that once someone's ancestors grazed cattle or hunted somewhere does not mean that this land belonged to these ancestors. I made this clear in my commentary on Alaska for both commentators.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Andrey57
          Andrey57 18 January 2014 17: 57
          +3
          So the little thing always yaps more. than biting, nothing to bite and tear for real, and "correcting mistakes" a trifle makes even more angry hi
    5. marshes
      marshes 18 January 2014 18: 05
      -1
      Quote: AnpeL
      But once the territory of the north of present Kazakhstan belonged to Russia

      And when Muscovy belonged to Altyn Orda and paid yasak.
      1. Tersky
        Tersky 18 January 2014 18: 39
        +15
        Quote: marshes
        And when Muscovy belonged to Altyn Orda and paid yasak.

        Be politically correct laughing , not yasak, but a loan, which with huge interest was returned by Ivan the Terrible with the help of LLC "Bailiff Ermak and K."
        1. marshes
          marshes 18 January 2014 18: 52
          +2
          Quote: Tersky
          "Bailiff Ermak and K."

          Ermak then made a mistake with the legal entity; he had to turn to Kazan but not Siberian.
          1. Tersky
            Tersky 18 January 2014 19: 04
            +8
            Quote: marshes
            Ermak then made a mistake with the legal entity; he had to turn to Kazan but not Siberian.

            So he first of all (in 1552 during the third campaign of Ivan VI to Kazan), arrived in Kazan with a lawsuit to recover.
            1. marshes
              marshes 18 January 2014 19: 21
              +3
              Quote: Tersky
              So he first of all (in 1552 during the third campaign of Ivan VI to Kazan), arrived in Kazan with a lawsuit to recover.

              So where does the KOK Horde?
              1. Tersky
                Tersky 18 January 2014 22: 51
                +5
                Quote: marshes
                So where does the KOK Horde?

                Here, and I’m talking about the same thing, where is the yasak Altyn Orde, and the Kazakhs ...
      2. SRC P-15
        SRC P-15 18 January 2014 18: 57
        +3
        Quote: marshes
        And when Muscovy belonged to Altyn Orda and paid yasak.

        And in my opinion, is altyn a Russian monetary unit equal to three kopecks? wassat
        1. marshes
          marshes 18 January 2014 19: 06
          +9
          Quote: СРЦ П-15
          And in my opinion, is altyn a Russian monetary unit equal to three kopecks?

          And the barn is an outbuilding.
          1. SRC P-15
            SRC P-15 18 January 2014 20: 22
            +4
            Quote: marshes
            And the barn is an outbuilding.

            Yeah, and around the barn - tyn (a fence in the village made of stakes nailed vertically) wassat
          2. The comment was deleted.
        2. Tersky
          Tersky 18 January 2014 19: 06
          +6
          Quote: СРЦ П-15
          And in my opinion, is altyn a Russian monetary unit equal to three kopecks?

          Everything is true, but it came from the Turkic numeral alta - six. The counted altyn in the Russian principalities appeared at the end of the XIV century, simultaneously with the beginning of coinage, money and was equal to 6 money. In the Russian language there are a lot of words borrowed from the Turks, the same pencil is a literal translation: Kara-black, dash-stone.
          1. marshes
            marshes 18 January 2014 19: 23
            +4
            Quote: Tersky
            Everything is true, but it came from the Turkic numeral alta - six. The counted altyn in the Russian principalities appeared at the end of the XIV century, at the same time as the beginning of coinage, money amounted to 6 money

            ALTYN-gold.
            1. Tersky
              Tersky 18 January 2014 22: 52
              +1
              Quote: marshes
              ALTYN-gold.

              There is also such a definition of this word, but in the countable sense it is the sum - six. The folk etymology from the Türkic-Tatar "altyn" and, accordingly, other Türkic languages ​​"gold" is untenable, since gold has never been the metal for the minting of these coins. hi !
          2. SRC P-15
            SRC P-15 18 January 2014 20: 29
            +1
            Quote: Tersky
            Everything is true, but it came from the Turkic numeral alta - six.

            I agree, but later 3 copecks were called that.
            1. old rocket man
              old rocket man 19 January 2014 01: 24
              +1
              Quote: SRC P-15
              Quote: Tersky
              Everything is true, but it came from the Turkic numeral alta - six.

              I agree, but later 3 copecks were called that.


              That's right, money is half a penny, six money-altyn = three pennies hi
          3. The comment was deleted.
          4. nikcris
            nikcris 19 January 2014 03: 15
            +1
            Pencils were also invented by Kazakhs? Like everything else?
            1. SRC P-15
              SRC P-15 19 January 2014 10: 10
              +2
              Quote: nikcris
              Pencils were also invented by Kazakhs? Like everything else

              Yes, yes, and the Kazakhs brought the crucian carp, and they came up with a cannon (hit in the billiards), and a lot of all kinds of punishment ... laughing
            2. The comment was deleted.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. ty60
        ty60 18 January 2014 22: 47
        0
        Go to Fomenko and Nosovsky. Who was the Horde?
    6. ty60
      ty60 18 January 2014 22: 43
      +2
      Not only. The Ural Cossacks, Guryev, the northern part is virgin. The Ural region, Stalin stuck to Kazakhstan in December 1936.
  • tradizia
    tradizia 18 January 2014 17: 10
    +8
    For some reason I’m sure that the Kazakh brothers will beat everything up!
    Why would they (the Kazakhs) launch rockets themselves?
    They (Kazakhs) are not bad warriors, they love their Motherland, etc., etc., but they are not rocket launchers!
    And this: “We would like Russia to stay on Baikonur forever” - complete nonsense!
    *
    Anecdote:
    "Jew-miner, Kazakh-Chief designer of missiles"
    1. Guun
      Guun 18 January 2014 17: 19
      +10
      I agree with you, we do not need this Baikonur. I wish you to quickly complete your spaceport and close the Baikonur.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • askort154
    askort154 18 January 2014 17: 11
    +14
    Quote ... "but the issue of rent has never been the main issue for us."

    Oh deceit, the only astronaut of Kazakhstan Talgat!
    We remember, we remember your visits to Russia, about the low rent for Baikanur. They appeared in unison with the demands: Ayzerbajan - 300 liam. instead of 7 lam. for Gabala, (as a result: not Lyamov, not shit, but the new Armavir), Takzhikistan - who requested 150 Lyamas. for the lease of our base (but then there was a conflict on the border with Afghanistan) and it swelled up. So the collective hit on the "sucker" Russia turned into a complete J.
    Are you white and fluffy now? Do you not respect the country that raised you into space from the steppes of the nomads ?!
    Have you been lured by green candy wrappers ?! I am sure when you become an elder, you will understand and regret it!
    1. Yeraz
      Yeraz 18 January 2014 19: 10
      0
      Quote: askort154
      Ayzerbadzhana - 300l. instead of 7 lam. for Gabala, (as a result: not lyamov, not horseradish, but the new Armavir

      Well, thank God we are not rogues who are stuffing 7 million into the allies, this is laughter. In Azerbaijan, 1 kilometer of road costs 10 Lyamov. And experts know how many they love to build in Azerbaijan. And what the good guys built Armavir !!! Only in Gabala with personnel of 1 thousand Russian soldiers on Azerbaijani territory is not needed.
      1. marshes
        marshes 18 January 2014 19: 25
        +5
        Quote: Yeraz
        .In Azerbaijan, 1 kilometer of road 10 Lyamas

        We have no less, now your fellow countrymen are building a road in the Kyzylorda region, western China-western Europe.
        1. Oh no no no
          Oh no no no 18 January 2014 19: 48
          +1
          Now your countrymen are building a road in the Kyzylorda region, western China and western Europe.


          Do our people know? or bypassing Russia? belay
          1. marshes
            marshes 18 January 2014 20: 22
            +3
            Quote: Ay-yay-yay
            Do our people know? or bypassing Russia?

            Yes, somewhere in the Orenburg area should go.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Yeraz
          Yeraz 18 January 2014 20: 33
          +3
          Quote: marshes
          We have no less, now your fellow countrymen are building a road in the Kyzylorda region, western China-western Europe.

          They build everywhere. And what doesn’t always have legal Azerbaijani companies in Russia, many such companies operating in different fields, companies owned by Azerbaijani officials and Azerbaijani capital, and on paper Russian capital and a Russian company. I buy a lot of things. Right now, multibillion-dollar projects burst into eastern Europe tourism, and buying up huge billions in Turkey. Recently, Austrians have already bought shares in sales of aviation fuel in Turkey, which is 25% of their market))
          Therefore 7 lyamas, this .... fool
          1. marshes
            marshes 18 January 2014 20: 44
            +5
            Quote: Yeraz
            Therefore 7 lyamas, this.

            One of the highlight will be in Aktau.
            I hope to visit Baku, I liked it, heads and tails, May Almighty drinks
            1. Yeraz
              Yeraz 18 January 2014 21: 23
              +6
              Quote: marshes
              I hope to visit Baku, I liked it, heads and tails, May Almighty

              inshallah brother, but I myself go there as a guest)) And the eagle and tails, that the first, that the second nonsense is complete. They even half half of what was not shown. Especially the Hochmo were supposedly settled in the most expensive apartments, although this is not so) )
              We support the relationship with the Cossacks, and I’m definitely organizing some kind of meeting there.
              We will take you to the Gazakh region in the west of Azerbaijan))
              1. marshes
                marshes 18 January 2014 21: 38
                +3
                Quote: Yeraz
                heads and tails, that the first, that the second is complete nonsense.

                Honestly Brother, I liked the city, I looked in comparison and other issues, they did better than our two cities. I liked the hotel or business center where the "fire played", but the taxi and the cost of the hotel I heard she makes me happy, but the question is what is the best time for pissing?
                1. Yeraz
                  Yeraz 18 January 2014 22: 46
                  +5
                  Quote: marshes
                  .I liked the hotel or business center where "the fire played

                  and there, each building has its own function, it is flirting with different videos, I like the way a guy with an Azeri flag waving to the whole city on the screens of this building.
                  Quote: marshes
                  yes taxi

                  Thank God they did a taxi, otherwise the boss got for how much, and how much you give)))
                  Quote: marshes
                  the only question is what is the best time for clearing?

                  if the sea is summer, the month of May.
                  I am a man who grew up in the cold and parents from the mountains, therefore, all the seasons there are warm for us) therefore from May to September.
                  If you want to go to Novruz (and I love this season) then March. Nevertheless, the traditions of Novruz are stronger than all the Turks of S.A. Russification influenced and the new year prevailed)) Therefore, Azeri was responsible for organizing Novruz in the university from A to Z. It was fun when all the Turks celebrated together.
                  1. marshes
                    marshes 18 January 2014 23: 09
                    +4
                    Quote: Yeraz
                    . It was fun when all the Türks celebrated together.

                    Yes, Nauryz has also become a big holiday for us, usually a month is celebrated.
                    In general, I like to celebrate holidays, they used to put some yurts in the steppe, the young people cooked and the old people met at least once a year, mostly after May 1, now of course it has become easier - we rent a room in a restaurant. But earlier the smell of the steppe was in spring, tulips .. .-not to convey at all. Another Kurban Ait holiday is different there, but again we rent the hall.
                    In general, I trudge from the smell of the steppe in the spring.
                    Basically, the celebration was after the sheep were sheared and bathed in Creole, then they were driven to the mountains.
              2. smersh70
                smersh70 19 January 2014 01: 08
                +4
                Quote: Yeraz
                We will take you to the Gazakh region in the west of Azerbaijan))

                stop on the road in Ganja)) just on the highway built a fortress in a 9-storey building good
                1. Semurg
                  Semurg 19 January 2014 01: 21
                  +3
                  Now I’ll ask for a visit to the heap. (if I collect money for the trip) laughing . Shish kebab Caucasian very respect ah.
                  1. smersh70
                    smersh70 19 January 2014 01: 29
                    +3
                    Quote: Semurg
                    Now I’ll ask for a visit to the heap.

                    just don’t forget to bring horse sausage))) I love .. but then there isn’t)))))))
                    1. Semurg
                      Semurg 19 January 2014 01: 38
                      +4
                      agreed with me kazy wink how about juaya, card, vein.
                      1. Andrey KZ
                        Andrey KZ 20 January 2014 17: 57
                        +2
                        Quote: Semurg
                        how about juaya, card, vein.

                        This I take!
                    2. The comment was deleted.
                2. The comment was deleted.
      2. Veteran Vlad.
        Veteran Vlad. 18 January 2014 22: 58
        +3
        And what do you live in Russia then, live in your own sunny Azerbaijan. And then your republic is only for you, but Russia is obtained for everyone. And do not want to leave my country
        Patriot of independent Azerbaijan, and Russian citizenship, so live in Azerbaijan
        1. Yeraz
          Yeraz 19 January 2014 00: 23
          +4
          Quote: Veteran Vlad.
          And what do you live in Russia then, live in your own sunny Azerbaijan.

          I am a citizen of Russia, like all my relatives, it was not necessary to call us to the defense of Leningrad, so that later we would remain here.
          Quote: Veteran Vlad.
          And then your republic is only for you, but Russia is obtained for everyone.

          Why go live for me, and not for you. Do not confuse the presence of military personnel with civilians, in Azerbaijan, Russians live quietly and have their own church and their deputy in Medzhil (State Duma)
          Quote: Veteran Vlad.
          And do not want to leave my country

          Deprive citizenship and send.

          Quote: Veteran Vlad.
          Patriot of independent Azerbaijan, and Russian citizenship, so live in Azerbaijan

          Yes, a patriot of Azerbaijan, but I also do not parasitize Russia and behave better than some indigenous representatives.
          1. Veteran Vlad.
            Veteran Vlad. 19 January 2014 11: 26
            0
            The defense of Leningrad has nothing to do with it. It’s just that you’re comfortable living in Russia - business conduct, etc. Sly Yeraz.
            And Western Azerbaijan is also nothing to do with. It’s just that you are comfortable living in Russia - business conduct, etc. Sly Yeraz.
            Your homeland is not only Western, but all of Azerbaijan, just as some Kazakhstanis put it here (these are not my words) "where the ass is warm there and the homeland" is why you are here, so Leningrad and Western Azerbaijan have absolutely nothing to do with it
            Your relatives emigrated to Russia in the XNUMXs, and you personally haven’t long ago, so Leningrad and Western Azerbaijan have absolutely nothing to do with it
            I repeat once again, as some say here (these are not my words) "where the ass is warm there and the homeland" is why you are here, so Leningrad and Western Azerbaijan have absolutely nothing to do with it.
            About parasitism - I don’t know you and haven’t personally met, so I can’t object or present anything, although I personally doubt it
      3. cherkas.oe
        cherkas.oe 19 January 2014 02: 01
        +2
        Quote: Yeraz
        ! Only in Gabala with personnel of 1 thousand Russian soldiers on Azerbaijani territory is not needed.

        your traders, gangsters, etc., there are not so many shushers in Russia either. And you will need to come again and sit on the * opera quietly.
        1. alone
          alone 19 January 2014 02: 05
          +1
          Quote: cherkas.oe
          your traders, gangsters, etc., there are not so many shushers in Russia either. And you will need to come again and sit on the * opera quietly.


          ))) that again we wave our fists and threaten from powerlessness?))) for now, sit quietly and breathe evenly.
        2. smersh70
          smersh70 19 January 2014 02: 08
          -1
          Quote: cherkas.oe
          orgash, bandits, etc., rushers in Russia

          I didn’t understand, but what if you only do business, and yours don’t, everyone in state enterprises, I didn’t know that you have communism bully and bandits, you have more and local ones.
          Quote: cherkas.oe
          We’ll come again and sit on the * opera quietly and calmly.

          come and fly away in a zinc coffin, unless of course you fly away wassat come on .. and then recently one also promised to come ....
    2. Kasym
      Kasym 18 January 2014 19: 52
      +13
      askort154, good evening to you! There are three of them:
      1.Toktar Aubakirov (Hero of Russia and Kazakhstan, the first to land the MiG-29K on the deck of the aircraft carrier "Admiral Kuznetsov"). 1991
      2. Talgat Musabaev (Hero of Russia and Kazakhstan) .1994
      3.Yuri Malenchenko (Hero of Russia and Kazakhstan) .1994, citizen of Russia.
      What raids, if the rent began to be paid in the form of training our military, weapons and its repair since 1998. I also want to inform you that there are still a bunch of military facilities that Russia uses on the terrain. Kazakhstan - "Sary-Shagan, early warning station, Center for Communication with the Pacific Fleet. And which to replace, due to the location of the Republic of Kazakhstan, is very difficult. According to statistics:
      1. Gold and foreign exchange reserves of the Republic of Kazakhstan $ 100, which is more per capita than in Russia.
      2. The country's GDP will reach $ 1994 in 14, which is almost equal to the Russian Federation. GDP growth of 500% in 6, in the Russian Federation 2013%. In 1,4 2014-6% is expected.
      3. RK is among the 50 most competitive economies in the world and the goal is to enter 30. And also to reach the level of 60 $ per capita GDP.
      4. Kazakhstan at the end of the last decade restored its economy at the level of indicators of the Kazakh SSR.
      5. The army of Kazakhstan is the most modernized in comparison with the armies of the former USSR (near Azerbaijan)
      Why do you think that Musabayev does not respect Russia (he is a Hero of the Russian Federation)? Where is it said? Alexander, we have long been not those wild nomads about which you write. Why do you think that the DPRK is capable of creating a launch vehicle, while the ROK is not capable of it? For example, we have mathematicians who have solved such complex problems as the "hypothesis of Nagata" (Umirbaev) and one of the 7 problems of the millennium, the Navier-Stokes equation (Otelbaev). We have developed nuclear physics. But the question is: is it necessary, if there is in Russia and Ukraine?
      And nobody lured us with candy wrappers, since since 1994 (the speech of the National Academy of Sciences at Moscow State University) has been insisting on post-Soviet integration. And recently the ice has finally broken. And Nazarbayev's great merit in this. Putin V.V .: "Kazakhstan (Nazarbayev) is the engine of integration." So, they bought it with candy wrappers from the Russians Yeltsin and Gorbachev. Is not it ? hi
      1. 225chay
        225chay 18 January 2014 20: 08
        +2
        Quote: Kasym
        So, they bought it with Russian wrappers, Yeltsin and Gorbachev. Is not it ?


        Dear Yeltsin, I was not a Russian person, and humpbacked
      2. FREGATENKAPITAN
        FREGATENKAPITAN 18 January 2014 23: 18
        +1
        To sense! You are like Mongolia, you have to pay $ 2 million (US -1 million) for the citizenship of the country when the Mongolian ambassador to the Russian Federation was asked (then there was a woman) Why so (asked with a catch) She proudly answered, Yes you .... .What is America, here we have something to live! You are now reminiscent of the Ambassador of the Mongols
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. The comment was deleted.
      5. FREGATENKAPITAN
        FREGATENKAPITAN 18 January 2014 23: 20
        0
        Now the Olympic Games will begin, let's count how many Kazakh names there will be ....... only a coach and doctors? hi
      6. old rocket man
        old rocket man 19 January 2014 01: 31
        0
        Quote: Kasym
        Why do you think that Musabaev does not respect Russia (aka Hero of the Russian Federation)?


        Dudaev was also a Hero of Russia, and so what?
        And Gamal-Abdel Nasser, did it somehow hold them back?
        1. alone
          alone 19 January 2014 12: 01
          +2
          Quote: Old Rocketman
          Dudaev was also a Hero of Russia, and so what?
          And Gamal-Abdel Nasser, did it somehow hold them back?


          They were the heroes of the USSR, not Russia))
          1. old rocket man
            old rocket man 19 January 2014 19: 12
            0
            Quote: lonely
            They were the heroes of the USSR, not Russia))


            Ay-ya-yay, what's the difference? The main thing is that it’s not Kazakhstan and not Chechnya, and especially not Egypt, you still notice that there was a UAR then.
            That is why there is a relationship as to younger brothers, because only the latter tend to dig into the little things, forgetting about the essence of the issue.
    3. ty60
      ty60 18 January 2014 22: 51
      +1
      Right on a horse in space, the main thing is that the return of the slingshot does not kill the astronaut.
  • saag
    saag 18 January 2014 17: 15
    +4
    Earlier, there were other statements from Musabaev’s lips, and so the realization that such money was buried and buried in Vostochny that not using it would be impossible to change the rhetoric, but I think it will not change the trend for finding a new spaceport, in which case the payload will be thrown to East
  • polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 18 January 2014 17: 23
    +4
    If everything was built there under the missile launches of the end of the last century, I would like to know the opinion of specialists on the topic, will Russia need it in the foreseeable future? I think we need to agree with the Kazakhs, to be friends at home, that’s all, all the same, the underbelly of Russia, it’s necessary to strengthen the union, yes and the neighbors are not asleep.
    1. andrei332809
      andrei332809 18 January 2014 17: 26
      +4
      Quote: polkovnik manuch
      make friends with houses

      Friendship at home is great and real. but homeowners think more about the personal rather than the tenants request
    2. Andrey57
      Andrey57 18 January 2014 17: 42
      +7
      The question of "necessity" of Baikonur in the future depends on the terms of the lease; with the sky-high dreams of the Kazakh side, it may not be necessary, you just have to invest in the construction of launching positions at other Russian cosmodromes. At the present time, of course, it is needed, but the same Musabayet has already disrupted launches of Protons more than once, as a result, Russia suffered very large losses due to non-fulfillment of contractual obligations. In addition, after such tricks of the Kazakh side, the cost of insuring launches of launch vehicles from Baikonur has sharply increased, these losses, coupled with the cost of renting and maintaining the cosmodrome and the city, forced Russia to make a decision to build a new cosmodrome.
      1. Onizuka teacher
        Onizuka teacher 18 January 2014 17: 51
        -1
        In China, missiles do not fall often and fly, but your Protons just fall more often. What rocket fuel is known to many, and what sky-high dreams explain ... well, I'm waiting.
        1. sevtrash
          sevtrash 18 January 2014 18: 38
          +4
          Quote: Teacher Onizuka
          In China, missiles do not fall often and fly, but your Protons just fall more often.

          Will you give statistics on launches or is it your imagination?
          1. Onizuka teacher
            Onizuka teacher 18 January 2014 19: 18
            -1
            Yes please. Here she is from the wiki.
            http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D1%EF%E8%F1%EE%EA_%EA%EE%F1%EC%E8%F7%E5%F1%EA%E8%F
            5_%E7%E0%EF%F3%F1%EA%EE%E2_%D0%EE%F1%F1%E8%E8_%E2_2013_%E3%EE%E4%F3
            1. sevtrash
              sevtrash 18 January 2014 19: 28
              +5
              Quote: Teacher Onizuka
              In China, missiles do not fall often and fly, but your Protons just fall more often. Yes please. Here she is from the wiki.


              Yes Yes. We take it and consider it elementary - Russia has 32 starts and 1 failure, China has 15 starts and 1 failure. Through complex calculations, we get 3,1% of unsuccessful launches in Russia and 6,6% in China, that is, 2 times more in China.
              And how and what did you consider?
            2. Concept1
              Concept1 18 January 2014 20: 40
              +2
              Infographics for 2013.
              Site "Made by us"
          2. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. avt
        avt 18 January 2014 18: 34
        +3
        Quote: Andrey57
        The question of "necessity" of Baikonur in the future depends on the lease conditions,

        Well no ! And here is a rental! It was the cosmodrome of another country, the USSR and the tasks of space exploration there posed a completely different scale, incommensurable with current, as well as defense projects. Today, neither Russia, nor even Kazakhstan will pull such a thing. And to collect dough on commercial launches is not the goal of a space power at all. So the spaceport is slowly but surely dying. So, we still support it with launches in the absence of an alternative site at a similar latitude.
        1. VADEL
          VADEL 18 January 2014 19: 33
          +1
          I am sorry I missed, put "-". I completely agree with you. repeat
  • nikcris
    nikcris 18 January 2014 17: 28
    +1
    Interestingly, how much do the citizens of the most shabby country headed by the barracks for Guantanamo pay Cubans today? Probably more than Russia to the CSTO member for Baikonur.
    1. andrei332809
      andrei332809 18 January 2014 17: 32
      +3
      Quote: nikcris
      how much do the citizens of the most shitty country pay Cubans

      there is different. the Yankees are yanking for Cuban debts there. but the castro began to pay accelerated, so that the Americans quickly dumped. but it’s such ticks (insects) ... they don’t voluntarily leave, they only need to be burned out
      1. Tersky
        Tersky 18 January 2014 17: 47
        +5
        Quote: andrei332809
        there is different. the Yankees are yanking for Cuban debt

        As far as is known, since 1960 of the year Cuba has not accepted any rent for the base. After all, a piece of the original Cuban territory is held by the American military against the will of the Cubans, it was illegally occupied and usurped. Moreover, under pressure and a far-fetched pretext for defending Cuba against various kinds of opponents. For a long time, the Base has no strategic or military significance for the United States. It is endowed only with political meaning. And it consists in humiliating the Cubans, in keeping the Island in constant tension.
        1. andrei332809
          andrei332809 18 January 2014 18: 07
          0
          Quote: Tersky
          After all, a piece of the original Cuban territory is held by the American military against the will of the Cubans,

          you can’t argue with that. somehow I watched the gear, so the Cubans give the Yankees for something money. The sums are funny, but still ...
    2. Tersky
      Tersky 18 January 2014 17: 46
      +2
      Quote: nikcris
      Interestingly, how much do the citizens of the most shabby country headed by the barracks for Guantanamo pay Cubans today?

      In 1902, Washington imposed an enslaving agreement on Havana (the “Platt Amendment”), according to which it received a base in Guantanamo for an unlimited lease. Later, in 1934, the “shameful Platt Amendment” was formally canceled under the pressure of Cuban public opinion, but instead, a new treaty stated that the United States could abandon the base only by mutual agreement of both parties. Havana has long agreed. The Americans do not give their consent, which is quite understandable where they gave it or give when it comes to the WB ...
  • nikcris
    nikcris 18 January 2014 17: 36
    0
    What to take from them?
    Over the past 100 years, their capital in St. Petersburg, then in Urda, then in Moscow, then in Kzyl-horde, now in Orenburg, then in Alma-Ata, then in Tselinograd - nomadic people ...
    Where there is a bay car, there is a capital.
    1. nikcris
      nikcris 18 January 2014 19: 54
      -2
      Parry besides minuses nothing?
      PS I rub the handles.
      1. hommer
        hommer 18 January 2014 23: 35
        +2
        Quote: nikcris
        PS I rub the handles.

        Little hands do not break, rubbing, troll.
  • Sadikoff
    Sadikoff 18 January 2014 17: 42
    +2
    Cuba was paid a penny, which the kubashi refused, since the Americans did not go for review and did not leave.
    The issue of money always comes first when the basis for pulling money (bypass pipelines, spaceports) is kicked out, only then another understanding of the issue appears.
  • AIR-ZNAK
    AIR-ZNAK 18 January 2014 17: 43
    +4
    Baikonur was built where it is, also for a couple of important details; 1 drop of carrier steps occurred in a sparsely populated area. emergency landing of the astronauts was supposed to take place on the territory of the USSR in the event of abnormal work of 1 or 2 stages. (one of the Unions, Ship Commander Lazarev V.G.) 2- and remoteness from external borders to impede the intelligence activities of NATO and their means of destruction. Eastern - point 1-ocean. Point 2 is not as relevant as in the 50s. It was not for nothing that a decision was made to build the East, and the decision was thought out in the 90s half-starved for the country. Cooperation with Kazakhstan in the field of rocket and space launches was not so ideal. And how it goes further, another question
  • Stinger
    Stinger 18 January 2014 18: 01
    +2
    They would like to. It is natural. What is the National Space Agency of the Republic of Kazakhstan without the Baikonur Cosmodrome? This agency should pay Baikonur for the training of Kazakh specialists. It is not yet known what is more expensive, renting or studying. Or the calculation of a freebie?
    1. ty60
      ty60 18 January 2014 23: 02
      0
      The question is already answered. By the way, you know what a freebie is
  • pvv113
    pvv113 18 January 2014 18: 04
    +7
    COOPERATION IS GOOD. BUT BAIKONUR SHOULD BE RUSSIAN, AT LEAST ON THE EARTH OF KAZAKHSTAN. AT ITS TIME, AT THE BEGINNING OF THE 90S IN KAZAKHSTAN, THE BASE OF STORAGE OF LONG AVIATION AIRPLANES IN THE SEMIPALATINSK REGION ARE CREATED. THERE TUR-16 AIRCRAFT THROWED THROUGH THE UNION ALL TERRITORY THERE. Tell me, at least one plane after the collapse of the USSR remained?
  • Shpagolom
    Shpagolom 18 January 2014 18: 05
    +4
    ... I don’t understand why such a stink and s.rach between Kazakhs and Russians is constantly .... what
    1. sevtrash
      sevtrash 18 January 2014 18: 44
      +10
      Quote: Shpagolom
      ... I don’t understand why such a stink and s.rach between Kazakhs and Russians is constantly ....

      This is for a long time, the USSR swelled billions of dollars into Kazakhstan, Kazakhs cannot forgive this now.
    2. sprut
      sprut 18 January 2014 21: 04
      0
      Because the Kazakhs imagined too much of themselves, trying to behave arrogantly (forgive my friend, but this is true). And they forget from whom they have such a territory, who pulled them out of the Middle Ages, who generally preserved their people. If they do not forget this, then the stink will resolve itself. A vivid example is Belarusians, they realize that Russians are an older brother, from that or love between nations. A good example to Kazakhs. Here it is.
  • Pushkar
    Pushkar 18 January 2014 18: 06
    +4
    Foreign land is a foreign land. It is high time for the strategic object - the cosmodrome to leave for its territory. And I'm glad the business is moving. And the opinion of the citizens of another country does not interest me.
    1. Veteran Vlad.
      Veteran Vlad. 18 January 2014 23: 14
      +1
      I agree with you - Alien land is a foreign land
  • dmitrij.blyuz
    dmitrij.blyuz 18 January 2014 18: 12
    +2
    Quote: plotnikov561956
    The algorithm of the Baikonur-Vostochny chain is easily tracked .. if the Kazakhs gently spoke on the issue of Baikonur ... therefore, you don’t need to go to your grandmother. Things are going well in the East ..

    Kazakhs need denyuzhka. So back down. And about Vostochny, not everything is so rosy. But it would be better if it was built. We must have our own launching sites, and not depend on someone. Today they sing to us, and tomorrow asked to dump.
    1. Onizuka teacher
      Onizuka teacher 18 January 2014 21: 02
      +2
      The rent has not changed since 98. Yes, and paid us the training of our troops and all. We won’t go broke without you, because we survived 90 and are now flourishing, we have built the city of Astana and your 115mln will not change us. As it was written earlier, the board is symbolic and despite the fact that RosKosmos brazenly did not let us in finding a hundred and a thousand excuses. And this despite the fact that we offered our help and finances of course. Questions?
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • marshes
    marshes 18 January 2014 18: 15
    +6
    As an Almaty resident noted that after frequent missile launches, the weather in the city changes dramatically. On the day of launch in Almaty, it is sunny but late in the evening it changes sharply with decreasing temperature and heavy rainfall, north-southwest prevail in the city, I harvest healthy tomatoes and cucumbers I don’t dream anymore, I have to build canopies over the beds of polygal (cellular polycarbonate)
    To be honest, I don’t care, who’s obsessing with what kind of cosmic ambitions, but for me the health of my loved ones is important.
    1. sevtrash
      sevtrash 18 January 2014 18: 51
      +9
      Quote: marshes
      after frequent missile launches, the weather in the city changes dramatically. On the day of launch in Almaty

      More than a thousand kilometers from Alma-Ata to Baikonur, the launch trajectory is in the other direction.
      "... Gray smog constantly hangs over the city. More than 80% of air pollution in the city is caused by motor vehicles. According to the latest data, there are 800 thousand cars in Alma-Ata, and their number is growing every day. Every year these cars are emitted into the air of the city. about 250-260 thousand tons of hazardous waste. Thus, for every inhabitant of the city there are more than 200 kg of hazardous substances ... "
      It is clear that Russia is to blame, who would doubt it.
      1. marshes
        marshes 18 January 2014 19: 11
        +2
        Quote: sevtrash
        ... Each year, these vehicles emit about 250-260 thousand tons of hazardous waste into the air of the city. Thus, for each resident of the city there are more than 200 kg of harmful substances ... "
        It is clear that Russia is to blame, who would doubt it.

        Well, probably the residents of the Zhambyl region are also confirmed by harmful substances that are in the atmosphere of Almaty, talked with the Meskhetian Turks who have fields near Taraz.
        1. sevtrash
          sevtrash 18 January 2014 19: 20
          +1
          You at least read your own comments, first you are talking about Alma-Ata, and then you jump to another place.

          Quote: marshes
          probably residents of the Zhambyl region


          What is so throws?
          1. marshes
            marshes 18 January 2014 19: 30
            +2
            Quote: sevtrash
            What is so throws?

            You at least look at the geographical maps, In the morning the weather in Taraz in the evening in Almaty.
            1. sevtrash
              sevtrash 18 January 2014 19: 47
              +7
              Quote: marshes
              look at geographic maps

              Yes, I `m watching. Between Taraz and Alma-Ata, almost 500 km. Or is it the same for you? It seems that you essentially have nothing to say, you start to change the topic, jump. First, it was about Alma-Ata, then they jumped to Taraz, then where to?

              About ecology in Taraz - "... Due to the fact that there were three large enterprises of the phosphorus industry in the city (including the Novodzhambul phosphoric plant and the Khimprom plant), the city was heavily smoggy. Due to the economic crisis of the mid-late 1990- In the early XNUMXth century, the activities of the factories were almost completely suspended, and one fine day Taraz residents were surprised to find that their city was surrounded by mountains on both sides. As a result of the resumption of the factories, the ecological situation again deteriorated, but at the moment the mountains are clearly visible ... "
              1. marshes
                marshes 18 January 2014 20: 31
                0
                Quote: sevtrash
                As a result of the resumption of the work of the factories, the ecological situation has deteriorated again, but at the moment the mountains are clearly visible ... "

                I visit Taraz several times a year, mother-in-law with a father-in-law, so everything is fine with the environment, and the factories are working at half strength, which are not worth it, it's windy.
                So, Sergei, I do not want to wish you to live in the vicinity of cosmodromes, nuclear test sites, testing grounds for bacteriological and chemical weapons.
                1. sevtrash
                  sevtrash 18 January 2014 21: 34
                  0
                  Quote: marshes
                  So, Sergei, I do not want to wish you to live in the vicinity of cosmodromes, nuclear test sites, testing grounds for bacteriological and chemical weapons.

                  I agree and do not wish anyone. Although it was necessary and still closer than you are to Baikonur.
                  But you must admit that the impact on the weather of launches that take place over 1000 kilometers, especially in the form that you describe, is very doubtful.
                  It is necessary to develop a logical hypothesis, an observation plan, statistical analysis, and deriving correlations. This with emissions from machines and enterprises is understandable, although maybe not all.
  • Baikonur
    Baikonur 18 January 2014 18: 23
    +2
    nikcris (2) RU Today, 17:36
    "What to take from them?
    Over the past 100 years, their capital in St. Petersburg, then in Urda, then in Moscow, then in Kzyl-horde, now in Orenburg, then in Alma-Ata, then in Tselinograd - nomadic people ...
    Where the bai wagon is, there is the capital. "
    The darkness is complete, another dense Natsik. Peter, in Moscow, Urde never was!
    1. nikcris
      nikcris 18 January 2014 20: 41
      -1
      Are you afraid that the Urdinians will not stick the flippers to you? And Babai-Lenin, the first construction site - amgamble, sent there
      1. nikcris
        nikcris 19 January 2014 03: 41
        -1
        There is even a train station. Without railway. Algemba, however ...
        You are dense)))
  • Baikonur
    Baikonur 18 January 2014 18: 37
    +4
    As for the symbolic price, this is true. Here are the arguments
    cosmodrome area - 6700 sq. km or 670000 hectares for 115 million $ we get $ 171 per hectare and this is not counting the fall areas + Heptil, Amil all this "super useful for the environment and public health" KRT.
    1. old rocket man
      old rocket man 18 January 2014 20: 38
      +1
      Quote: Baikonur
      As for the symbolic price, this is true. Here are the arguments
      cosmodrome area - 6700 sq. km or 670000 hectares for 115 million $ we get $ 171 per hectare and this is not counting the fall areas + Heptil, Amil all this "super useful for the environment and public health" KRT.


      Just keep in mind that this is not arable land, there is nowhere to even graze sheep, only along the Syr-Darya shore, which is not included in the landfill, with the exception of a small area in Leninsk itself negative
  • individual
    individual 18 January 2014 18: 44
    +5
    From Kazakhstan between the lines it is written:
    You update the material part of the Baikonur sites.
    We train on your developments of content and launches for your own money, and then ...
  • Baikonur
    Baikonur 18 January 2014 18: 47
    +6
    About a group of representatives of the antiheptil social movement.
    A classic example of “Political Prostitutes” is “Antiheptil,” led by activist Makhambet Abzhan and the like, how much and who will pay for (or against) they speak out. Being a branch of ROO Shanyrak, the site is directly designated as “grantees” from the European Commission and the Institute for Freedom and Democracy of the United States. At the same time, they themselves use rocket fuel in the USA and Europe (France) (America - "Titan", France - "Arian") similar (also based on nitrogen tetraxide) here are double standards, but they are silent about the harm. The bottom line is that there is fierce competition in the space launch market, and often competition takes on direct discriminatory forms.
    For some reason, Greenpeace employees were silent and silent about the accidents in the Gulf of Mexico, the accident at Fukushima. Such are the "grant eaters". While an ordinary person is scratching his head and thinking how to get free help and adapt it to a specific case, the grant eaters will do everything with lightning speed during this time. They are mobile and will write business plans and justifications for the use of any amount in a matter of seconds. And it doesn't matter what the money will be spent on - the grant eater does not care what to do: sweep the streets, fight for freedom or introduce democracy and the institutions of an open civil society into the insemination of barren (that is, barren) cows in some collective farm "40 years without a crop" ... They will immediately create the necessary structures (such as "Charter-4", Antiheptyl, the international convention "For Three", the public initiative "Only for us" or the open fund "Ball of the Future or Future Balls - 3rd Millennium") and begin to master. The anti-Heptylovites did not even bother to visit Baikonur, of course, Baikonur would not have had such a PR effect as in Astana, this is what all their performances in Astana are mainly aimed at (counting before the customer).
    We are just talking (writing). And we are losing independence. We do not understand that grants are simply a bank deposit in us. Which will have to give with interest. And if we do not want to understand this, then the reckoning will take us by surprise. And nuclear landfills, with the approval of the puppet government, are the least that Kazakhstan expects in this case.
    PS A weak "heptyl-meptyl" to oppose the American biological laboratory in Almaty, which is being built with the money of the Pentagon to "study" especially dangerous viruses, etc., with unclear goals. Or do they not dare against the owners?
  • AIR-ZNAK
    AIR-ZNAK 18 January 2014 18: 48
    +3
    Cosmodrome is a strategic object. In the world, only one more spaceport is located in the territory of another state. In France. But ... in French Guiana. So Kazakhstan should not be offended by Russia because it does not allow access to its facilities in Baikonur, but by children who are beneficial to each region by sovereignty, and by street by president.
  • Baikonur
    Baikonur 18 January 2014 18: 53
    0
    There is a movement "Antigeptil" here is their https://www.facebook.com/Antigeptil
  • alexander 2
    alexander 2 18 January 2014 19: 04
    0
    Russia will remain in Baikonur forever in only one case. When our states unite. And this will happen sooner or later because the separation occurred against the will of the people.
  • hell hell
    hell hell 18 January 2014 19: 12
    .
    What a WISE thing the internet is. Everyone is barking, their saliva is blowing out, but the goal has been achieved. THE COUPLE WENT TO THE WHISTLE of the Lord — comrades.
  • AIR-ZNAK
    AIR-ZNAK 18 January 2014 19: 25
    +2
    Quote: ow hell
    What a WISE thing the internet is. Everyone barks, spit out their saliva, but the goal is achieved. THE COUPLE WENT TO THE WHISTLE of the Lord - comrades

    It looks like there is a big game between NASA, ESA and RSA for the redistribution of the services market. Everything else stems from this. By and large.
  • scientist
    scientist 18 January 2014 19: 25
    +6
    Musabayev is right that a lot depends on the individual, especially in strategic industries such as missile and nuclear technology. At the same time, Musabayev himself is a very ambitious and incompetent person. More than 10 years of development of Kazakhstan's space industry have resulted in more than $ XNUMX billion wasted. The stake on the Zenit rocket, which actually led to the bankruptcy of the Sea Launch project, was initially a dead end; it is developing the same disastrous directions with the remote sensing and KazSat communications satellites. The first satellite was lost, the Ishim air launch project was ruined, high-precision navigation is developing only on paper, since most of the stations were purchased by the geodetic services of construction companies. The idea of ​​developing a national navigation system based on the IFRNS was buried by the ambitious pseudo-patriot Musabaev, and this is not the whole list.
    In addition, it should be borne in mind that despite the declarations of strategic partnership, Kazakhstan remains a multi-vector state, which unties the hands of the political clans governing the state, to act on the principle of who gives and promises more. And for modern missile technologies, Kazakhstan's neighbors can give and promise a lot, especially since spies of almost all countries, agents of influence, recruiters and missionaries of international terrorists feel like at a resort there, the "status of the KVO" is observed and the principle does not touch them, and they neither who is not touched. If the Nazyrbayev family of billionaires wants to have toys like their own cosmodrome and the super city of Astana, let them develop and invest on their own. A couple of joint projects should be left at Baikonur in order to maintain formal warm relations. Everything else needs to be transferred to Vostochny as soon as possible, until a truly competent, adequate leader, capable of working for the future, comes instead of Musabayev.
    1. ty60
      ty60 18 January 2014 23: 15
      0
      we’ll leave the starters. Launch what will be -Musabaeva on a horse or in a yurt?
  • Arh
    Arh 18 January 2014 19: 27
    +3
    I think Friendship is the most important thing, and the money issue is easily resolved when you are a Friend! ! ! ))) smile
    1. Committee
      Committee 18 January 2014 19: 50
      +3
      Friendship is somehow original - while you pay rent.
  • nikcris
    nikcris 18 January 2014 19: 42
    +1
    Quote: Yeraz

    Well, no need and no need. Your relatives are also not needed - we will live.
    1. Yeraz
      Yeraz 18 January 2014 21: 14
      +2
      Quote: nikcris
      Well, no need and no need. Your relatives are also not needed - we will live.

      hmm, my relatives, including me, are citizens of the Russian Federation, so it won’t work. We have told people with Russian passports and caps, who are military personnel, and the rest WELCOME drinks
      1. Veteran Vlad.
        Veteran Vlad. 18 January 2014 22: 48
        -1
        And we say return to our homeland to live
        1. Yeraz
          Yeraz 19 January 2014 00: 59
          +1
          Quote: Veteran Vlad.
          And we say return to our homeland to live

          Come on??
          I’ll tell you a secret, my homeland of Western Azerbaijan (now Armenia), which was created by tsarist Russia at first by gradually supplanting, then by soviets. Return my original lands then I will return with great pleasure to my native mountains. And right now you support the aggressor in holding 20% ​​of already independent Azerbaijan of the 21st century .When you leave our lands, then you will have the right to say something to me.
          1. Veteran Vlad.
            Veteran Vlad. 19 January 2014 15: 16
            -2
            "When you leave our lands, then you will have the right to tell me something." Yes, we left them a long time ago. Azerbaijan has long been independent. And why should WE return, let the Armenians themselves return, otherwise they will also begin to demand that we return them, otherwise only we have only claims and demands, we owe something to everyone, we are obliged and we are bad, colonialist exploiters, and we ourselves do not lag behind can: You are not Armenians, not Georgians, not Central Asians, and by the way, Putin also can't keep up with you
            It is you who all must leave our lands: Azerbaijanis, Armenians, Georgians and so on. And the remaining Russians are your lands. Then there will be no mutual claims no offense.
            1. Yeraz
              Yeraz 19 January 2014 20: 59
              +2
              Quote: Veteran Vlad.
              And why should we return

              You populated them, and we were evicted. Everything is just logical.
              Even forget about the hell with him.
              Stupidly, at least right now you don’t support just the aggressor, I myself will be the first to dump.
      2. Veteran Vlad.
        Veteran Vlad. 18 January 2014 23: 11
        +5
        (So ​​far we have told people with Russian passports and caps that are military personnel)
        You see how you are two-faced, and you yourself strive to obtain Russian citizenship by all means. You all want your independent republics to be just for you - and my country is for all of you
        1. Yeraz
          Yeraz 19 January 2014 00: 56
          +1
          Quote: Veteran Vlad.
          You see how you are two-faced, and you yourself strive to obtain Russian citizenship by all means. You all want your independent republics to be just for you - and my country is for all of you

          And how is this connected ??? Go get it is not forbidden to anyone. There are rules for receiving. No one is forbidden. It is not entirely correct to compare the civilian people and the military personnel of another state sitting in a closed facility.
  • volvo
    volvo 18 January 2014 19: 45
    +2
    I noticed so, it is worth appearing a brow with a short circuit, then n-topic
  • Committee
    Committee 18 January 2014 19: 47
    +5
    A new cosmodrome is being built, it is probably better to leave the steppe, for a wait the sum is huge and this is not the limit! The "owners" have very good appetites. In addition, everything is "not our own" around, it is better to transfer these funds to your cosmodrome!
  • volvo
    volvo 18 January 2014 19: 48
    0
    I want to play with the Kazakhs zovitefseekh
  • nikcris
    nikcris 18 January 2014 19: 49
    +3
    Quote: andrei332809
    Quote: nikcris
    how much do the citizens of the most shitty country pay Cubans

    there is different. the Yankees are yanking for Cuban debts there. but the castro began to pay accelerated, so that the Americans quickly dumped. but it’s such ticks (insects) ... they don’t voluntarily leave, they only need to be burned out

    Quote: andrei332809
    Quote: nikcris
    how much do the citizens of the most shitty country pay Cubans

    there is different. the Yankees are yanking for Cuban debts there. but the castro began to pay accelerated, so that the Americans quickly dumped. but it’s such ticks (insects) ... they don’t voluntarily leave, they only need to be burned out

    True? It's cool that FSE left Russia with gesheft ...
  • S-200
    S-200 18 January 2014 19: 50
    +4
    Is Russia (or France) sharing space technology with French Guiana for using the Kourou spaceport?
    Enough with us and the Chinese ...
  • Shadowcat
    Shadowcat 18 January 2014 19: 50
    +2
    "Chef, everything is gone. The plaster cast is being removed, the client is leaving ..." (c)
    They ran in when they bit under the tail, they realized that the alternative appeared and more fingers could not be bent.
    1. Drummer
      Drummer 19 January 2014 19: 04
      +2
      Fingers bends, or rather bent, just Roscosmos.
      And now the understanding has come that the time when Russia dictated conditions in the field of space launches is passing, the prospects of Vostochny are vague, and no one needs Angara at all.
      So you have to turn to Kazakhstan face, and not what you are used to.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. nikcris
      nikcris 18 January 2014 20: 05
      +1
      I couldn’t have you - I don’t mess with animals, and Ta-Yes - I caught something by the tail. Something called the Uyghur. The stump is clear, I acted as it should.
    2. ty60
      ty60 18 January 2014 23: 18
      0
      you yourself, by and large, have. In the brain, because you are not literate.
  • volvo
    volvo 18 January 2014 19: 54
    -2
    Talgat Musabaev
  • volvo
    volvo 18 January 2014 19: 55
    -2
    Talgat Musabaev I respect this person
  • dmitrij.blyuz
    dmitrij.blyuz 18 January 2014 19: 59
    +1
    Quote: Baikonur
    As for the symbolic price, this is true. Here are the arguments
    cosmodrome area - 6700 sq. km or 670000 hectares for 115 million $ we get $ 171 per hectare and this is not counting the fall areas + Heptil, Amil all this "super useful for the environment and public health" KRT.

    Yeah. Heptyl is still such a fig. It’s not bad like fuel. But if it spills out, it’s dead kilometers. I had business with him. I was the director of the plant for the production of missiles for nuclear submarines. Because of heptyl, my legs were in trouble. I was in a rocket, when there were breakdowns of launches and they were brought back. Just with the chief engineer they cut a hatch in the case and looked for a malfunction. We found it. Violation of production technology by the Miass factory. The components came from there. The pipes for the fuel were made of the wrong metal. They simply dissolved in heptyl.
  • volvo
    volvo 18 January 2014 20: 01
    -4
    some here take advantage of the lack of oirats; it’s not necessary for Hasigam to burn about their owners
    1. Onizuka teacher
      Onizuka teacher 18 January 2014 21: 26
      +5
      I’m not a Kazakh, a descendant of kulaks from Ukraine, but let me ask, I’m very curious, but after the Oirat vile attack of Aktaban-Shubyrynda in 1723 and the miserable defeat in 1728 of the battle called Kalmak-Krylgan, the genocide of the Dzungaria Empires Qing, dare you say something? They could have enslaved you even under Kasym, but he only died. The Chinese were your masters and they armed you and then disposed of as unnecessary material. The Kazakhs won the war with the Dzungars. In the early 50s of the XNUMXth century, the Dzungaria weakened under blows from two sides, from the West from the Kazakhs, from the East from the Qing Empire and the latter slaughtered all Oirats in this territory. Dzungaria collapsed and disappeared from the political map of Central Asia. All points above “ё” have long been placed: Dzungaria - no, but Kazakhstan exists. It would seem that what else can I say? Of course, let everyone believe what he wants. But you won’t go against the facts. Of the Oirats, only the Tolenguts, that is, slaves, survived. Questions? Facts? Alas, there was nothing left of the Oirats.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. dmitrij.blyuz
          dmitrij.blyuz 18 January 2014 22: 00
          +2
          Volvo Who did you call a jackal, an abortion victim? Who are you anyway? Are you afraid to open? Pascudenok. Goldfinch still poke me. Leave the site ..
          1. Onizuka teacher
            Onizuka teacher 18 January 2014 22: 06
            +3
            dmitrij.blyuz leave this teenager volvo with complexes of not fully learning the history that he does not know. After all, he is from an endangered people.
          2. The comment was deleted.
        2. Onizuka teacher
          Onizuka teacher 18 January 2014 22: 01
          +4
          volvo but the fact that you have become slaves and your culture has disappeared iron fact. I studied as a historian so that you know and love her. And the Battle of Orbulak, where in the gorge there are a thousand Kazakhs under Khan Dzhangir, was surrounded by the Dzungar army of 50 people. In this battle, the jungars lost 000 people. To reinforce the Dzungars, an army of Zhalantos Batyr arrived 10 people. Later Kazakh-Jungar conflicts did not subside. In 000, a kurultai was convened in the Karakum region, at which it was decided to create a people's militia led by Bogenbai Batyr. In 20, the militia invaded the territory of the Dzungars and defeated them. The return campaign of the Dzungars ended in failure. But due to the fragmentation of the Kazakh Khanate into zhuzes, the Kazakh sultans again disintegrated, and could not inflict decisive defeat on the Dzungars. The Dzhungars, having recovered, continued their campaigns until they had played out, the rest I wrote above. This is the Chinese source of my young interlocutor. And do not insult and spittle, muslims and slaves anyway, but not yours but God himself, like all people, you are no exception.
        3. The comment was deleted.
      2. nikcris
        nikcris 19 January 2014 04: 00
        0
        I didn’t even enter - if everyone was cut out, then this is hurt and not genocide at all ...
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. marshes
        marshes 18 January 2014 21: 51
        +5
        Quote: Teacher Onizuka
        Of the Oirats, only the Tolenguts, that is, slaves, survived.

        Okay, tired of the story, the Tolenguts became Kazakhs, forgave no matter how Türks, even the Shorts and Altai were still Uighurs there, okay.
        The fact that the Republic of Ingushetia supplied the Kalmyks with weapons and also military advisers, we know, at one time it annexed the northeastern manchuria, the qing empire was at that time occupied with the struggle against the Dzungars.
        At the expense of weapons, my direct ancestor intercepted caravans with weapons that went to the jungars, laughing he died in his bed at the age of 92 in Turkestan.
        About the supply of the Dzungars, one can say by one name Yogan Gustav Renat, who allegedly escaped from Russian captivity.
        1. Ram chandra
          Ram chandra 19 January 2014 01: 36
          +5
          Yes, it sounds unpleasant, but the Dzhungars were insulted from two sides - and the Chinese and ... attention - Russians! The Russians supplied them with guns and even military advisers. Sadly, it is better to act with the wrong hands. Colonization went easier on the prepared land either.
  • dmitrij.blyuz
    dmitrij.blyuz 18 January 2014 20: 06
    +1
    Cosmodrome "Vostochny" - guys! Yes, nothing really is being done there. Well, it's a long-term construction. In 2015 there will be no launch. The workers are leaving there. Someone is breaking through their interests. They are fighting each other for federal money. The building has practically died out, sadly.
    1. bomg.77
      bomg.77 18 January 2014 20: 41
      +1
      Quote: dmitrij.blyuz
      . Workers leave from there. Someone breaks their interests there. They are at war with each other for federal money. The construction has almost died out. Sadly.
      It seems like a couple of months ago Rogozin was there and said that, with a slight delay, but the work is moving or is it "show-off" to calm down?
      1. dmitrij.blyuz
        dmitrij.blyuz 18 January 2014 20: 53
        +2
        Alexey! hi Look at the sites. I have an engineer cousin there. He left two months later. They delay the salary. They drive concrete instead of the 600th. The 400th. Living conditions - tents and wagons. Without heating. Water shortage.
        1. bomg.77
          bomg.77 18 January 2014 21: 17
          +2
          Thank you Dmitry, when a person speaks in his own words, it causes more confidence hi!
          1. dmitrij.blyuz
            dmitrij.blyuz 18 January 2014 21: 28
            +2
            All the same, it's sad. The control is somewhere above the roof, and, somewhere, bye-bye ...
    2. ty60
      ty60 18 January 2014 23: 24
      +1
      live to see
  • volvo
    volvo 18 January 2014 20: 23
    -4
    I grieve for you Kazakhs, inadequate, when you have defeated the Dzungars at least once)))))))))))) Oh
    1. Onizuka teacher
      Onizuka teacher 18 January 2014 21: 38
      +3
      Take a textbook on stories and sit down to read if you can, otherwise I can see with your grammar and the Russian language tight. And take a look at the map. What do we see? In the early 50s of the XVIII century, Dzungaria weakened under attacks from two sides, from the West from the Kazakhs, from the East from the Qing Empire and the latter slaughtered all Oirats in this territory. Dzungaria collapsed and disappeared from the political map of Central Asia. All points above “ё” have long been placed: Dzungaria - no, but Kazakhstan exists. Here is the answer, questions?
      1. dmitrij.blyuz
        dmitrij.blyuz 18 January 2014 21: 51
        +2
        Maysi "+". And you can ask for something, a photo on your nickname. Although the owner is a master! drinks
      2. sevtrash
        sevtrash 18 January 2014 21: 59
        0
        Well, if you read about the Dzungarian invasion of Kazakhstan, then in a series of battles the Mongols often won, not without reason the Kazakhs asked for a protectorate from Russia. And then, the Kazakhs and Dzungars already together fought against the Chinese. And the Dzungar Khanate was condemned by the Qing Empire.
        There is no Dzungar Khanate, but the Mongols exist, like Mongolia.
        1. Onizuka teacher
          Onizuka teacher 18 January 2014 22: 10
          +5
          Quote: sevtrash
          Well, if you read about the Dzungarian invasion of Kazakhstan, then in a series of battles the Mongols often won, not without reason the Kazakhs asked for a protectorate from Russia. And then, the Kazakhs and Dzungars already together fought against the Chinese. And the Dzungar Khanate was condemned by the Qing Empire. There is no Dzungar Khanate, but the Mongols exist, like Mongolia.

          You are mistaken, the Dzungars had excellent unity and the Kazakhs did not have it. I will not give you the whole textbook and I will write in brief.
          Kazakh-Dzungarian war - military operations between the Kazakh and Dzungarian khanates. They started back in the XNUMXth century. The strategic goal of the Dzungars was to subordinate the Kazakh expanses to their influence. In military affairs, the Dzungars posed a danger not only to the Kazakhs, but to Central Asia, as well as to Russia.

          The first meeting of Kazakhs with the Dzungars was recorded in 1643, under Khan Dzhangir. The battle was called the Battle of Orbulak. In this battle, the army of the Kazakhs, which numbered about a thousand people of the khan's guard, defeated the Dzungar army of 50 people. In this battle, the jungars lost 000 people. To reinforce the Dzungars, an army of Zhalantos Batyr arrived 10 people. Later Kazakh-Jungar conflicts did not subside.

          In 1710, a kurultai was convened in the Karakum region, at which it was decided to create a people's militia led by Bogenbai Batyr. In 1711, the militia invaded the territory of the Dzungars and defeated them. The return campaign of the Dzungars ended in failure. But due to the fragmentation of the Kazakh Khanate into zhuzes, the Kazakh sultans again disintegrated, and could not inflict decisive defeat on the Dzungars.

          The Dzungars, having recovered, continued their campaigns. In 1718, a battle took place near the Ayagoz River. The Kazakhs were defeated. Apart from the Dzungars, the raids of the Bashkirs, Uzbeks, Siberian Cossacks complicated the situation. The years 1723-1727 went down in the history of Kazakhstan as the "Years of the Great Disaster." In 1726 - the battle near the Bulanty River, the Kara Siir area, the complete victory of the Kazakhs. The area was called “Kalmak karylgan” (Kalmyks bits). In the 1720s, a battle took place near the city of Ordabasy (border with the Dzungaria). The army of Kazakhs was dispersed on the basis of belonging to the zhuzs, there was no single command. One of the commanders of the Kazakh army was Abulkhair Khan (Khan of the younger zhuz).

          In 1730, the bloodiest battle took place in the area of ​​Anrakai (Battle of Anrakai). The combined army of the Kazakhs, led by Bogenbai Batyr, inflicted a crushing defeat on the Dzungars, however, after the battle, there was a split and disagreement of the Kazakhs. The independence of the Kazakhs was threatened.

          In 1731, the annexation of the Kazakh Khanate to the Russian Empire began. The first to join the Younger Zhuz, at the initiative of Abulkhair Khan, in 1735. Later, already in the 1740s, the Middle Zhuz joined at the initiative of Sultan Abylay (after - Abylay Khan). Senior Zhuz remained independent. In this regard, the attacks of the Dzungars ended. The Russian empire militarily far surpassed the Dzungars.

          After the death of the Dzungar commander Galdan Tseren in 1745, the hostile actions of the Dzungars weakened even more. Civil strife began in Dzungaria, one of the candidates for the throne of Amursan tried to take power with the help of the Chinese, but was defeated and was forced to seek support from Sultan Abylay.

          In 1755, the Manchurian-Chinese troops defeated the Dzungars. In 1756-1758, Dzungaria was finally defeated, and in 1758 it ceased to exist, turning 1761 into the Chinese province of Xinjiang. And once again the source is Chinese.
          1. sevtrash
            sevtrash 18 January 2014 22: 22
            -2
            Quote: Teacher Onizuka
            You are mistaken, the Dzungars had excellent unity and the Kazakhs did not have it.

            Yes, I didn’t talk about unity. He said that the Dzungars more often won that the Dzungars and Kazakhs fought together against the Chinese and that the Mongols did not disappear. Actually, Kalmyks too.
            1. marshes
              marshes 18 January 2014 22: 29
              0
              Quote: sevtrash
              that the Jungars and Kazakhs fought together against the Chinese and that the Mongols did not disappear. Actually, Kalmyks too.

              The Dzhungars are Kalmyks, in the place they never fought against the Chinese, or rather against the Qing Empire, there was an embassy there. There was one random clash, though not on our territory but outside the Dzungar Gate, they decided peacefully.
              1. sevtrash
                sevtrash 18 January 2014 22: 51
                0
                Quote: marshes
                Dzhungars are Kalmyks, in the place they never fought against the Chinese, or rather, against the Qing Empire


                Kazakh units fought on the side of the Amoysan noyon against the Sino-Manchu troops in the period from 1755 to 1758 in the battles at Ili, Tarbagatai and Khorgos.
                Read the story
                1. marshes
                  marshes 18 January 2014 23: 13
                  +2
                  Quote: sevtrash
                  Kazakh troops fought on the side of the Noyon Amursany

                  And what kind of war? Under the leadership of Noyon Amursany?
                  I myself am interested.
                  1. sevtrash
                    sevtrash 18 January 2014 23: 19
                    0
                    Quote: marshes
                    I myself am interested.

                    Well, if you're interested, take a story and read. It’s not for me to educate you.
                    ... the Kazakh rulers assessed the current situation and came to the conclusion that: "The Dzungar Khanate was not a previous threat to the Kazakhs, and, while helping with his army the Dzungar Khan Amursan, Ablai tried to help him maintain a single state." He reasoned: "It is better to have Dzungaria, which has lost its former power, on its borders than the Qing Empire." Moreover, Amursan, with whom Ablai was close friends, being in captivity, was called Ablai's "friend" ...
                    1. marshes
                      marshes 18 January 2014 23: 29
                      0
                      Quote: sevtrash
                      . It’s not for me to educate you.

                      Please give me a link from where you take.
                      There are simply opinions of scientists who wrote and edited them during the USSR, as well as about the famous proverb about Kara China, though the truth is there is a continuation of foul language.
                      1. Zymran
                        Zymran 18 January 2014 23: 44
                        +4
                        In fact, Ablai really supported Noyon Amursana against the Qing Empire, however, only Ablai and his warriors participated in these matters, of which there were only a few thousand. The remaining leaders of the Kazakhs not only did not provide assistance, but also attacked the Dzungarian nomads.
                        Since 1757, Ablai concludes an anti-Dzhungar alliance with the Chinese, the Qins hand over all the captured Dzungars to the Kazakhs as a sign of goodwill and demand that Ablai hand over Noyon to Amursan. However, Ablai chose to "let him go" and he fled to Russia on the sly. Further, the Kazakhs and the Chinese conduct a number of joint operations against the remnants of the Dzungars, the latter being massively captured. The Dzungar state was destroyed. Kazakhs begin to populate the deserted nomadic Oirats, which leads to periodic clashes with the Chinese.
                      2. sevtrash
                        sevtrash 18 January 2014 23: 47
                        0
                        Quote: marshes
                        Please give me a link from where you take.

                        To get started, go to the wiki, and there already follow the links that you will see and which are of interest.
                        What does the mat and ktai have to do with what?
                      3. Zymran
                        Zymran 19 January 2014 12: 20
                        +1
                        Everything is well painted here.
                        http://www.vostlit.info/Texts/Dokumenty/Mongol/Arch_mat_Amursana/frametext.htm
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. volvo
            volvo 18 January 2014 22: 28
            -1
            THIS IS NOT YOUR LAND)))))))
            1. Onizuka teacher
              Onizuka teacher 18 January 2014 22: 37
              +7
              volvo your writing is empty and does not make sense. Prove, please, come on. Yes, only this is impossible. Your land is now in China, and the Kazakhs are on their own which is confirmed by history and historians. If you mind prove, come on. Questions? Kazakhstan became my homeland, because I was born here and the Kazakhs accepted us before letting us die in the bare steppe.
            2. The comment was deleted.
        2. The comment was deleted.
      3. volvo
        volvo 18 January 2014 22: 03
        -2
        STUPID- YOU! KZ IS -While Nazarbay IS!
        1. marshes
          marshes 18 January 2014 22: 18
          +3
          Quote: volvo
          -While you eat!

          I’m a quarter of my father myself, I’ll take other families there and all my relatives go out, so don’t worry!
          1. volvo
            volvo 18 January 2014 22: 32
            0
            WHY DO YOU TALK ME YOUR KIND? UNTIL YOU HAVE A KIND YOU ARE WEAKNESS)))))))) YOUR PROBLEM THAT YOU ARE BREATH! KAZAKH KAZAKH DO NOT EARTH)) = - THIS I SAID IN ARMY))))
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Andrey KZ
      Andrey KZ 18 January 2014 22: 24
      +5
      Quote: volvo
      I’m grieving you for inadequate Kazakhs, when did you ever beat Jungar at least once)

      "in ihda", we are gutarim about space.
  • old rocket man
    old rocket man 18 January 2014 20: 30
    0
    Quote: marshes
    Musabaev does not want to deliver the Dnepr program to Baikonur; Kazakhstan launches satellites from the Orenburg region are just expected


    In the Orenburg region? There is a new launch pad? laughing Is it possible for more?
    1. marshes
      marshes 18 January 2014 20: 50
      +5
      Quote: Old Rocketman
      In the Orenburg region? There is a new launch pad? Is it possible for more?

      You don’t need to know the old missile, Yasny is a Russian spaceport located on the territory of the Dombarovsky Strategic Missile Forces positional area in the Yasnensky District of the Orenburg Region of Russia. It is used to launch spacecraft through the Dnepr launch vehicles. The cosmodrome operator is Cosmotras international company.
      the whole joke that my older brother graduated from a military school in Perm and still served, laughing. And he is not poor. laughing He did not trade secrets; he writes programs.
      1. old rocket man
        old rocket man 19 January 2014 01: 17
        0
        Quote: marshes
        Quote: Old Rocketman
        In the Orenburg region? There is a new launch pad? Is it possible for more?

        You don’t need to know the old missile, Yasny is a Russian spaceport located on the territory of the Dombarovsky Strategic Missile Forces positional area in the Yasnensky District of the Orenburg Region of Russia. It is used to launch spacecraft through the Dnepr launch vehicles. The cosmodrome operator is Cosmotras international company.
        the whole joke that my older brother graduated from a military school in Perm and still served, laughing. And he is not poor. laughing He did not trade secrets; he writes programs.


        In Yasnoye there is no cosmodrome, but a positional area of ​​a missile division, besides, the Orenburg region is Russia, or do you already consider it yours? Well, they launched a modified 15A18 from the mine with a satellite instead of a "head", so what?
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. dmitrij.blyuz
      dmitrij.blyuz 18 January 2014 20: 57
      +2
      Why insult the people? Are you adequate in your opinion, or have you taken a little on your chest?
      1. Onizuka teacher
        Onizuka teacher 18 January 2014 22: 30
        +5
        It’s just that volvo doesn’t know that when humiliating another people, you will never exalt your own or just a wild and uneducated nation that is classically Negro-African.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • volvo
    volvo 18 January 2014 20: 56
    -2
    I WILL SAY MORE, ORGANIZED, MUCH ZUNGAR HAS MUCH! NOBODY YOU WANTED TO DESTROY! THE WRONG, YOU WERE CALLED UNDER OUR FLAG JUNGARS - THESE ARE MONGOLS AND TURKES AND MUCH CONFESSIONS
    1. dmitrij.blyuz
      dmitrij.blyuz 18 January 2014 20: 58
      +3
      Make changes in the nickname. JUNGAR will do.
    2. Onizuka teacher
      Onizuka teacher 18 January 2014 21: 46
      +4
      Oh, I like to prove to those who can prove it, in principle, because of their lack of literacy in some areas. Dzungaria is an artificial state created by the Qing Dynasty and they destroyed it after the defeat and threat of invasion of the Kazakh army and the subsequent seizure of this territory and the transition under the Kazakh and eventually the Russian Empire. And if you called Kazakhs, then some clans of the elder zhuz came under your power and the subsequent after your destruction were either destroyed or captured in slavery. As for organization, the Kazakhs often liked to fight with each other and there was no solidarity, and the Dzungars solidified after the invasion of the millionth Qing army. By the way, the Kazakhs fought with you with swords and bows when you had guns and rifles delivered by the Chinese for an early victory over the fragmented Kazakhs.
      1. volvo
        volvo 18 January 2014 22: 05
        -1
        , HE SAY THAT THE MAIN FRONT WITH CHINA, AND HE PURGU ABOUT WEAPONS))))))))))
        1. Onizuka teacher
          Onizuka teacher 18 January 2014 22: 21
          +6
          And once again I will answer the young interlocutor of volvo, the Qing dynasty artificially created the Dzungaria to weaken the entire SA and the subsequent easy seizure of this territory. If the Qing Army totaled millions! soldier with firearms and guns do you want to say that you could handle it? Qing could not mobilize such an army to invade the SA because there was no logistics and food would not be enough for a month. Therefore, when the Dzhungars and Kazakhs kill each other, they would send small expeditionary forces numbering 30 to capture land. By the way, Abylai Khan was afraid to face them and adhered to exhaustion tactics that bore fruit so that the exhausted Chinese returned home. And the fact that China supplied you with a firearm is a fact.
        2. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    3. The comment was deleted.