Military Review

“Effective Managers” Defeated Russia More Than Hitler’s Invasion

268
“Effective Managers” Defeated Russia More Than Hitler’s InvasionDuring the years of liberal "reform" hundreds of factories and plants destroyed


When the media talks about the success of the Russian economy and the opening of new factories and plants, such news cause dual feelings. The emergence of new jobs is, of course, good and great, but at the same time, another moment behind the scenes remains.

It so happened that since 1991, the new owners of Russia have perpetrated such a rout of the domestic economy and destroyed so many factories that even Hitlerite gauleiters, who are known to be very careful with the production facilities in the occupied territories, would be horrified by such a pogrom.

As is known, in 1941 year, in accordance with the decree of the State Defense Committee No. 99ss of 11 in July, it was ordered to evacuate factories and plants from those territories that were threatened with occupation. Everything that could not be evacuated was subject to destruction. Nevertheless, zealous Nazis were able to put into operation most of the blasted factories and plants and to establish the production of much-needed Reich products.

What happened half a century later would surely have caused a state of shock among the Nazis. Domestic “businessmen”, who grabbed hundreds of factories and plants as a result of predatory privatization, turned out to be a hundred times worse than the Nazis, having only managed to ruin the captured production facilities and increase the army of the Russian unemployed.

In order not to be unfounded, it is worthwhile to look at the martyrology of the destroyed factories and plants and after that to draw a rather simple conclusion: the fascist invasion in 1941, with all its horrors, turned out to be flowers. But the berries hatch after 1991 year. And the post-Yeltsin years were especially destructive for the Russian economy, when the destruction of Russian plants and factories became widespread.

Moscow factory "Dynamo" conducts its history from 1897 year. The plant survived the revolution, the Civil War, the Great Patriotic War, but could not survive the pogrom of a democratic era. The country's largest manufacturer of electrical equipment, whose products were known throughout the world, fell victim to "effective managers." Currently, the Dynamo plant is an abomination of desolation and, of course, offices. Where are without them. The colossal funds invested in the Soviet years in the development of the enterprise went to pieces, as did the work of entire generations. We will modestly keep silent about the labor collective thrown out on the street ...

AZLK Automobile Plant appeared in 1930 year. In those years when, according to liberal historians, our country was ruled by Bolshevik cannibals led by executioner Stalin. Nevertheless, for some reason, the Bolshevik cannibals built factories, but the white and fluffy democrats, headed by ex-mayor Luzhkov, hurried to lie down under their French partners and take a more comfortable position. Heavenly, of course. Now the ex-AZLK, which changed its name to Avtoframos, produces low-cost cars for the third world countries. And this is not bad, since we managed to save at least some jobs. Although most of the territory AZLK ideal for filming postapocalyptic films.

The same can be said about ZIL. The “winds of change” and “effective managers” led by the same husband, the billionaire E. Baturina, brought the plant to the point that now it conducts illegal tours, similar to those that take place in Chernobyl. Both Chernobyl and ZIL became forbidden zones because of catastrophes: one because of ecological, and the other because of democratic. Once ZIL produced one of the best limousines in the world, trucks and very high-quality refrigerators that worked without problems for more than 30 years, and now “effective managers” turned the plant into a decoration for films about the Third World War. If salvo installations and a pair of artillery divisions worked in ZIL, it would have looked better. But there is no more destructive force in the world than “effective managers.” Especially from among the Austrian retirees and their changers.

The lot of the plant is predetermined: the precious Moscow land has long attracted all sorts of "investors" who sleep and see, as it were, as soon as possible to master the desired hectares. So what about the factory ZIL, the firstborn and the flagship of the domestic automotive industry, it has long been possible to speak only in the past tense. If something that will continue to produce a semi-cohesive stub of a car factory in the future, these are components for foreign automakers or, again, to assemble a “screwdriver” for foreign cars.

Those readers who still remember Soviet audio and video equipment will surely say a couple of kind words about such brands as Rubin and Vega. Berd Production Association "Vega" appeared on the basis of Kharkov plant number 1941 evacuated in 296 year. In 1946, the ogre cannibal Stalin transformed the plant into an independent enterprise, and since then the Vega brand has become one of the most desirable acquisitions from domestic music lovers. Of course, the new democratic masters did not want to put up with the legacy of the cannibal Soviet past, and in the year 1998, the Vega software went bankrupt. Or it was bankrupt. Why new owners are not smart enough to make their own enterprise work efficiently is a mystery. But in general, this example is very indicative of the Yeltsin era. Wood chopping - chips fly. The labor collective was put out on the street without a piece of bread - who cares about such “trifles” in the era of the tennis president exhausted by Narzan?

The example of the Rubin MTZ is even more indicative. If Vega was one of the most popular audio labels in the USSR, then Rubin TVs were out of competition. Of course, they did not reach the level of Sony or Philips, but often Rubin TVs worked for more than a decade, and this was something that went without saying. If this company was managed by smart and competent people, and not “effective managers,” then Rubin would have every chance to remain the current brand, rather than become Gorbushkin Dvor.

The Bolshevik fools, over whom only lazy people are not laughing now, built a plant in 1932, and for more than 60 years the company worked for the good of the country, enduring military hard times and evacuating, but was powerless before the semi-adequate team of “effective managers” who turned the honored brand “Rubin” "In the anecdotal" Hill ". In the martyrology of the destroyed domestic factories in the column “Date of death”, “Rubin” is 2003 year. But we are told that it seems like these were “fat" years ...

Why are there TVs and turntables! The domestic economy was killed much more widely. In the end, “rubies” and “vegs” pushed “samsungi” and “technics” out of the market, and there was no replacement for them, but what about, for example, the Krasny Proletary plant or Vladivostok Dalzavod plant? Something to replace them?

If someone does not know, then the “Red Proletarian” existed right from the 1857 of the year until… correctly, until the “fat” era, when, in fact, it was buried alive. The plant survived four kings, all general secretaries, a revolution, two world wars, but could not survive the plague of post-perestroika "managers" who drove him to the grave. Previously, the plant produced machines and was distinguished by unique productions that any country would be proud of, but in the post-Yeltsin era, the only thing that interested new owners of life was not the plant itself, and certainly not the people who worked on it, but the land that he held. For her now there is a serious squabble over the corpse of the enterprise, about which everyone has long forgotten. "Businessmen" need as soon as possible to throw out the mortal remains, so that they do not occupy the golden metropolitan area.

An even more interesting story with Dalzavod. Once the ships of the Pacific Squadron served at this enterprise, the very ones that heroically fought and died in Tsushima, and then, in the Soviet era, the ships of the Pacific fleet USSR. But then perestroika began, and a lover of narzan with his henchmen rose in power. As a result of the “reforms”, only the name remains of the previous “Dalzavod”. Korean SUVs are assembled in its workshops, and 1165 workers have been sent to "free swimming", since present-day Russia does not need their professional skills. Children of sunny Uzbekistan, even for three kopecks, can also fasten the wheels to the “ssang yongs,” and let the Vladivostok workers solve their problems themselves.

Is it any wonder that a beer restaurant and shopping centers will be built on the site of the former workshops of Dalzavod - that is, without which the workers and their families obviously cannot do? As for the repair of the Pacific Fleet ships, everything is not so sad: there will be some nook for them, especially since these retirement-age ships do not have much left. In the future, they will probably be “optimized” by “effective managers,” and the Russian fleet will soon be equal to North Korean or Taiwanese.

Tsushima, speak? Unmatched disaster? You seem to have a bad idea of ​​what “effective managers” are capable of. But what the North Koreans and Taiwanese will definitely not be is a beer restaurant on the former territory of a once regime object. So we are again ahead of the rest.

But "Dalzavod" is not alone. You can recall Petrozavodsk shipyard "Avangard". Restless cannibal, Stalin could not calm down, and the Avangard factory was born in 1939 year. Well, nothing can be done: Joseph Vissarionovich loved to build plants, do not feed him with bread. And not only them. Avangard existed for exactly 70 years, until the misfortune in the face of brilliant managers struck it.

The death sentence of the company was signed in 2010 year, and since then Avangard has taken its place in the martyrology of destroyed domestic factories. What happened to the workforce does not make sense to mention once again. It also does not make sense to talk about the means and labor invested in this enterprise. There are no new owners for this. It seems that their goal is the same - to bring Russia to the level of Senegal, and in this they succeed, even ahead of plans.

If someone doubts, then you can look at the Saratov aircraft factory. Sometime in the USSR, very good planes were built, but after 1991, the tennis president and his successors are somehow more looking towards the American aircraft industry. So the pride of the domestic aviation industry Il-96 recently received a black mark. As for the Saratov Aviation Plant, this enterprise, founded by the same restless Stalin in 1932, was declared bankrupt in 2010, the 30-thousandth team has long been dispersed, and now the IKEA market stands in place of the factory-plundered and torn buildings. SAZ survived the German Luftwaffe raid in 1943, which left the factory’s ruins, but was revived and then produced Yakovlev aircraft for many years, but what it could not survive was the post-perestroika industrial genocide.

The list of destroyed domestic factories and plants can be continued indefinitely. That’s what the Democrats have done, and even exceeded the plan, is to destroy their own economy and throw hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people on the street. The saddest thing is that even the Nazis, who, as history shows, were interested in saving jobs and industrial production, would not have behaved in this way. But after 1991, Russia was confronted with something more terrible than the Nazis, with some phenomenon that, if it can be described, then only from a medical point of view. And his name is “erosion”. Those same erosion, decay, rotting alive, that established in our country. Erosion devoured hundreds of factories and mills, threw them out into the streets and drove into the graves thousands of worthy people who remained unclaimed and thrown out of life.

If democracy has been established in Russia since 1991, in its present form it deserves more condemnation than Nazism. Only Nazism had its own Nuremberg, but Russian democracy is unlikely to be like that. Although everything that has been going on in Russia over the past 25 years, has long deserved a separate, close trial. Which, unfortunately, is unlikely to ever be possible ...
Author:
Originator:
http://www.km.ru/v-rossii/2014/01/13/yurii-luzhkov/729580-effektivnye-menedzhery-nanesli-rossii-bolshii-uron-chem-nas
268 comments
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  1. Christian
    Christian 17 January 2014 07: 15
    +21
    Even if they do not get what they deserve here, believe me, in eternal life eternal suffering threatens them very much!
    1. common man
      common man 17 January 2014 07: 29
      +21
      Your words, yes GOD in your ears.
      1. smel
        smel 17 January 2014 08: 03
        +31
        About the words in my ears - right. But the article should have ended with a description of the responsibility of the leaders of Nazi Germany to the world community. In addition, many of their accomplices were pulled up, shot and sent for a long time in the USSR to felling and extracting minerals in mines. But what about our young reformers, who promised to make everyone happy over the 500 days, the great foppish politicians who never lay down on rails, scoundrels surrounded by Americans and vying for one hundred millionth part in the form of vouchers for simple-minded old people? If my memory serves me, then NOTHING. The poor are tormented by excesses and worry about the looted good - that’s all responsibility. Yes, and from the current generation of destroyers do not need (the same Serdyukov). Ehhh. We write a tolerant story. Apparently this is the main fun. (Although by and large this is necessary)
        1. GDP
          GDP 17 January 2014 10: 05
          +17
          But what about our young reformers, who promised to make everyone happy over the 500 days, the great foppish politicians who never lay down on rails, scoundrels surrounded by Americans and vying for one hundred millionth part in the form of vouchers for simple-minded old people? If my memory serves me, then NOTHING. The poor are tormented by excesses and worry about the looted good - that’s all responsibility.

          All this fraternity has long been drinking Don Perenyon, somewhere in an old mansion near Paris or in London. And those who stayed have already prepared a place for themselves there, the children study and live already there, the house is there, the bank account is there, part of the business is there. Why do they need Russia and its enterprises?
          Russia is only interested in them as a source of resources and a sales market.
          One word - Parasites.
          1. Kunar
            Kunar 17 January 2014 17: 50
            +4
            He prefers to call himself an elite .... Or a golden billion)) There is no Stalin on them ... (c)
            My mom wink
        2. yehat
          yehat 17 January 2014 10: 48
          -26%
          do not give sentences and conclusions so easily.
          the authors of 500 days tried to somehow stabilize a crumbling state.
          They did not succeed, and believe me, the task was not an easy one.
          You want to punish them, but not a word about those who ruined them.
          Gorbachev did nothing harder than Chubais with his most ardent activity.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. aviamed90
            aviamed90 17 January 2014 10: 59
            +17
            yehat

            Gorbachev, Chubais.

            Radish horseradish is not sweeter!

            Who is more to blame, who is less. The result is one at all.
            1. sledgehammer102
              sledgehammer102 17 January 2014 18: 13
              +4
              Quote: yehat
              the authors of 500 days tried to somehow stabilize a crumbling state.


              When they try to stabilize, strategic enterprises don’t sell, although they don’t sell which one they sell, as I understand it, in the first wave of privatization it was not necessary to have a bag of money.
            2. GorynychZmey78
              GorynychZmey78 17 January 2014 21: 46
              +6
              damn here shas here are many in Belarus write that they say dad Lukashenko a collective farmer and an ineffective manager!

              apparently they are very thirsty to see in power just such very EFFECTIVE qualified managers who allowed the USSR fool
          3. CALL.
            CALL. 17 January 2014 12: 25
            +14
            Quote: yehat
            the authors of 500 days tried to somehow stabilize a crumbling state.
            They did not succeed, and believe me, the task was not an easy one.

            They tried so hard, tried so hard that they defeated the industry faster and more efficiently than the German Wehrmacht.
            1. Basarev
              Basarev 17 January 2014 13: 10
              +8
              Oddly enough, but even the Nazis for me become more decent people than all this pack
          4. nov_tech.vrn
            nov_tech.vrn 17 January 2014 13: 05
            +7
            Sin Yasinsky-Gaidar offspring
          5. luka095
            luka095 17 January 2014 21: 06
            0
            The author of 500 days, Yavlinsky, did not create a program, but a project. The market does not work normally until now, and he wanted to rebuild everything in less than two years. It could not work out. And this program is by no means stabilization. By the way, the author of 500 days is a pure theorist who did practically nothing.
            Both Gorbachev and Chubais - both engaged in ebullient activities. One began the collapse of the country, the other continues to this day.
          6. Gato
            Gato 17 January 2014 21: 35
            +2
            Quote: yehat
            Gorbachev doing nothing

            It would be better if he did nothing at all. And the mouth would close. And for a company with EBN I would die in childhood.
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. military
          military 17 January 2014 11: 14
          +8
          Quote: smel
          But what about our young reformers, who promised to make everyone happy for 500 days, the great foppish politicians who never lay down on rails, scoundrels surrounded by Americans and flashing one hundred millionth part in the form of vouchers to simple-minded old people?

          And what, their successors, who are in power today, are somehow better in this respect? ... The very ones who stubbornly mutter from the high rostrum about the impossibility of revising the results of privatization carried out by their predecessors ... Including the "Greatest" and his retinue ...
          Yes, the "young reformers" have robbed the people, I agree ... But today's "pseudo-state women" of the highest rank, who flew their predecessors near the trough, are quite satisfied with this order of things ... And all those who disagree - mantras about stability ...
      2. absalute
        absalute 17 January 2014 12: 25
        +3
        Why in the ears. The Lord said that you will bind on earth, the same will be in heaven ..
    2. 225chay
      225chay 17 January 2014 07: 39
      +16
      Quote: Christian
      Even if they do not get what they deserve here, believe me, in eternal life eternal suffering threatens them very much!


      The punishment should be today, now!
      And so wait until they are punished, then the rest of the industry will be finished off and taken away. The descendants will have nothing to convey, since everything will already be private - i.e. thief
      1. afire
        afire 17 January 2014 07: 50
        +14
        guys, yes sad, yes disgusting and disgusting, but enough about that.
        We need to live on, to prepare new enterprises in spite of those creatures, to leave the groundwork for the children, but what to do, we finished off the cattle, now somehow we need to get out and build.
        and plaintive moans are not our method, they are only angry, they do not affect the construction and development
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 08: 09
          +2
          Quote: afire
          and moaning is not our method

          Yes, how dare you go against complaints, we have nothing new to do, the plants are closed, everything is gone. Now they will sit crying, and soon a new article will show about new industries, how many of them are built in Russia. It’s a glance to say about three hundred and those who are sculpting cons and screaming loudly will shout cheers. Read and think that I read different things wink
          1. Dangerous
            Dangerous 17 January 2014 09: 08
            +7
            You just do not forget about this article about new industries. and soon when is it?
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 10: 13
              -6
              Quote: Dangerous
              You just do not forget about this article about new industries. and soon when is it?

              In the near future.
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 17 January 2014 10: 35
                +8
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                In the near future.

                What are they building? Maybe Putin is preparing a surprise for us? Sanya, wake up, there is no Santa Claus. hi
                1. Alexander Romanov
                  Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 10: 38
                  +1
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  Sanya, wake up, there is no Santa Claus.

                  If you knew how wrong you were, I won’t send you anything in PM, there will be an article with facts and specifics, there I will remind you of your comments wink
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 17 January 2014 10: 44
                    +8
                    Quote: Alexander Romanov
                    If you knew how wrong you are

                    Is there Santa Claus ??? belay
                    1. Alexander Romanov
                      Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 11: 06
                      -8
                      Quote: Ingvar 72
                      Is there Santa Claus ???

                      There is no Santa Claus, but there are factories and you will not believe it, but there are hundreds of them
                      1. Heccrbq.3
                        Heccrbq.3 17 January 2014 11: 17
                        +2
                        laughing are the holidays going on?
                      2. plut-k
                        plut-k 17 January 2014 17: 44
                        0
                        I do not drink so much
                      3. The comment was deleted.
                      4. 31231
                        31231 17 January 2014 18: 34
                        0
                        "do not drink, you will become a goat" (C) sister Ivanushki.
                    2. Andrey Yuryevich
                      Andrey Yuryevich 17 January 2014 19: 20
                      +4
                      yeah, here is the "office" of the Rezhevsky defense chemical plant. see below .... by the way, about 1500 people were fired.
                    3. Andrey Yuryevich
                      Andrey Yuryevich 17 January 2014 19: 42
                      +4
                      I can’t show the ruins from something ... I can’t insert the photo ... in.! this is an office .... here the parking was once ... a chemical defense plant ... artillery gunpowder was made, etc., and there were hundreds of such parking lots ....
                    4. Alex 241
                      Alex 241 17 January 2014 19: 47
                      +5
                      Rezhevsky Chemical Plant
              2. military
                military 17 January 2014 11: 19
                0
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Is there Santa Claus ???

                no ... there is a snowman with a bucket and a carrot ... laughing
            2. seller trucks
              seller trucks 17 January 2014 12: 47
              +6
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              I won’t send you anything in PM, there will be an article with facts and specifics, there I will remind you of your comments


              why wait? by simple manipulation through the proof, you can go to the SUN, where black and white ....

              Over the past year in Russia more than 200 Medium and Large New Manufactures, including projects implemented at existing enterprises. Among the new factories, workshops and production complexes 107 with investments ranging from 1 billion rubles, 51 launched with the participation of foreign investors, 134 built from scratch. The final review included 30 of the largest enterprises, the opening or completion of which took place in the 2013 year.


              http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/45774/

              as for the article itself: "The media talk about the successes of the Russian economy and the opening of new factories and plants"
              I do not know such media, acre, internet, can anyone enlighten?
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 17 January 2014 16: 12
                +4
                Quote: seller trucks
                Over the past year, Russia has opened more than 200 medium and large new industries,

                I climbed on your link, controversial achievements -
                In the Novokuznetsk district of the Kemerovo region, the launch of the Erunakovskaya-8 mine took place. The new mine has become one of the most modern coal mining enterprises in Russia.
                And how many have closed? There are single, new enterprises, but as a rule, with the participation of foreign capital.
                Petrozavodsk (Karelia) opened the first phase of the woodworking plant "Kalevala". The project investors were CJSC Compact (St. Petersburg) and the Czech Export Bank.
                And this is not the achievement of our government, our government is investing money in other places, for example, in US government bonds. hi
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. Egen
                  Egen 17 January 2014 16: 48
                  +3
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  In the Novokuznetsk district of the Kemerovo region, the launch of the Erunakovskaya-8 mine took place.

                  Well, yes, a new mine near us belongs to Yuzhka which belongs to Evraz. Well, Evraz clear coal does not hurt :)
                  They also wanted to do preliminary degassing for the first time in our country, to try on the same field, they did a project with the Australians who have been doing this for about eleven years, but in the end Evraz cut off money :( And there is enough methane there, God forbid, they would make a normal degassing system .. .
                3. ramzes1776
                  ramzes1776 18 January 2014 03: 38
                  +5
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  And how many have closed? There are single, new enterprises, but as a rule, with the participation of foreign capital.

                  Example of Penza. A plant for the screwdriver assembly of Finnish diesels by 300 workers will be built on the territory of Penzadieselmash OJSC. The production of our diesel engines will be gradually phased out, and workers and personnel (about 2500 people) will eventually be fired. Well, what are the advantages of opening a new plant ???
              2. Patriot
                Patriot 17 January 2014 16: 38
                +7
                I haven’t seen these 200 productions. I can only see how more and more stores and all kinds of eateries and domestic products are found. It’s also almost invisible to go to any store. All manufacturers are foreign or licensed to gather something domestic to find. it is necessary to climb the entire store and it’s not a fact that you will find
            3. nycsson
              nycsson 17 January 2014 19: 04
              +4
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              If you knew how wrong you are

              And in my opinion you're wrong.
          2. 31231
            31231 17 January 2014 17: 44
            +1
            What are they building? Maybe Putin is preparing a surprise for us? Sanya, wake up, there is no Santa Claus.

            What has Aliyev set up for you besides oil industry and bootlegging?
        2. nycsson
          nycsson 17 January 2014 19: 03
          +3
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          In the near future.

          Hi Romanov! Minusanul to you from the heart. negative
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Z.A.M.
      Z.A.M. 17 January 2014 10: 07
      +6
      Alexander Romanov
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      Yes, how dare you go against complaints
      .
      I was wondering - Hto you ..
      Today's comments, at this time (9.50), from 5.01 (!!!) - 33 PIECES! True, the majority on this topic, but not in a word-by-line, complete ...
      Your address THE INTERNET?
      Imagine, I won’t take into account how much you spank them per day.
      After THIS, do you call someone to WORK?
      Well, well ... "r a b o t n and c e k" ...
      ......
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 10: 15
        +2
        Quote: Z.A.M.
        After THIS, do you call someone to WORK?
        Well, well ... "r a b o t n and c e k" ...

        There Klim is now on the site, he is sitting at work and writing comments, and most of them are here. Question, now is a working day, there are a lot of people on the site and ????? Are you retired or are you also in the office?
        1. afire
          afire 17 January 2014 10: 20
          +4
          I’m also at work ... control of soldering paste application ...
          100 boards zafigachili already in the installer ...

          all work uncle Z.A.M.!
        2. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 17 January 2014 10: 42
          +6
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          . Question, now is a working day, there are a lot of people on the site and ?????

          Most of us work for our uncle, and understand that our efforts will not bring any benefits to the country. All our efforts will settle on the accounts of rich uncles, and materialize in the form of real estate abroad and luxury cars. With very few exceptions. hi
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 10: 48
            0
            Quote: Ingvar 72

            Most of us work for our uncle, and understand that our efforts will not bring any benefits to the country.

            Most companies do something, plastic windows or something else, but thanks to these uncles you get paid and save what you need there. Plus loot goes to a pension fund for your future pension and taxes that uncle unfastens to the budget replenishing it hi
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 17 January 2014 11: 11
              +12
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Plus loot goes to a pension fund for your future pension

              Sasha, I’m 42, and I don’t believe in fairy tales. I work as a locksmith, the official salary is 5500, I receive half of the salary from the trade union, the owners so evade taxes. That’s 13000. 2 personal income tax-5500 rubles, I can’t even get a loan. Is a big pension waiting for me?
            2. Far East
              Far East 17 January 2014 11: 26
              +1
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Most firms do plastic windows.

              Alexander, is this a factory? or a firmochka in the basement stamps these windows! here we are all working for uncle and not for the COUNTRY! Did you find out about retirement? or you even before retirement as to the moon? without sarcasm! hi
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 11: 36
                0
                Quote: Far East
                Alexander, is this a factory?

                300 plants have been built over the past half year, believe it not, or believe it will be a turn in your thinking
                Quote: Far East
                ! here we are all working for uncle and not for the COUNTRY!

                What is the budget of the country, not of your taxes? Or those who make planes and tanks also work for their uncle, and not for the country.
                1. Far East
                  Far East 17 January 2014 11: 48
                  +5
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  300 plants have been built over the past half year, believe it not, or believe it will be a turn in your thinking

                  is not it you deleted my koment? you tell your friends, children, beloved girl, we have 300 factories! I am an adult! I read, look and ride on our mother land! and you probably look from the window of your office and see those plants? taxes from us it is without debate! for such taxes you can all RUSSIA! for so many years to rebuild for a new one! hi
                2. The comment was deleted.
                3. 31231
                  31231 17 January 2014 17: 57
                  -3
                  taxes from us it is without debate! for such taxes you can all RUSSIA! for so many years to rebuild for a new one!

                  You feed your bureaucrats your taxes ?!
                  Poor thing, but I feed my parents with my taxes, stimulate fertility, medicine, the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
                  Instead of working and earning money, you only have the buzz in the network to raise the masters, like those raguli on the Maidan.
                4. Gato
                  Gato 17 January 2014 21: 41
                  +1
                  Quote: 31231
                  stimulate the birth rate,

                  laughing laughing laughing
                5. Far East
                  Far East 18 January 2014 04: 15
                  -1
                  Quote: 31231
                  stimulate the birth rate,

                  Are you a bull reproducer? laughing
                  Quote: 31231
                  medicine, the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

                  you sho cop? bully
                  Quote: 31231
                  You, instead of working and earning,

                  darling! I am still working! and for the Internet utilities you pay for me? YOU A FREAKER A MAN!
            3. tverskoi77
              tverskoi77 17 January 2014 17: 24
              0
              300 factories built over the past half year
              - Evgeni Primkov apparently doesn’t like this))) Maybe he doesn’t understand something? and I? )))
          2. military
            military 17 January 2014 11: 57
            +1
            Quote: Far East
            here we are all working for uncle and not for the COUNTRY!

            there is such a "uncle" ... yes
            we say "uncle" -
            we mean "COUNTRY",
            we say "COUNTRY" -
            we mean "uncle"

            and work for him ...wink
            1. CALL.
              CALL. 17 January 2014 12: 55
              +1
              About the construction of new plants here: http://stal-promcom.ru/blog/stroyka/
          3. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 17 January 2014 13: 09
            +9
            Quote: Far East
            Did you find out about retirement?
          4. afire
            afire 17 January 2014 15: 16
            -1
            Quote: Far East

            here we are all working for uncle and not for the COUNTRY!

            mmm again ...
            no need for everyone ...
            we have modern electronic production. Orders of Russian Railways, metro ...
            A huge enterprise. Of course, not everyone is happy with the RFP, but those who pull the production receive it with dignity; the ITR’s iPhones and pajerics are the norm.
            So there’s no need to answer for everyone, I’ve been at this job for the second month, before that I changed 4 enterprises for 5 years in a row, And - if I don’t like something, I’m also going to currency and don’t whine that my uncle pays me a little. There are no nearby enterprises - I’m going to another city. Damn good whining, who does not want, he is looking for reasons. Age certainly affects - I do not argue.
            1. Far East
              Far East 17 January 2014 16: 06
              +3
              I drove my own! can I go as a gastric to earn money! since their rulers do nothing for the people! so look for you probably need a young family to raise? I plowed into the country for hello! I want to live in dignity in my country! Here your children will grow up and tell them how to do it better! and where to go to work. me (us) and so they threw with savings! don't teach me how to live! But I want to work at the place of residence! if you are comfortable with driving around the country looking for work, these are your problems! then forget about your wife!
            2. 31231
              31231 17 January 2014 18: 02
              -6
              I plowed into the country for hello!

              But I work for my uncle not for hello, but I pay taxes to the country.

              since their rulers do nothing for the people!


              Get on the Maidan! There they promise panovanie.
    5. 31231
      31231 17 January 2014 17: 49
      -1
      Most of us work for uncle,


      That is, your uncle receives a salary for you and your uncle feeds your family?
      Bggg. Poor you, you’ve been deprived of everything. In addition to sticking out in the internet.
      1. Far East
        Far East 18 January 2014 04: 00
        0
        Quote: 31231
        Get on the Maidan! There they promise panovanie.

        If necessary, then I will go out in my country!
        Quote: 31231
        Poor you, you’ve been deprived of everything.
        Yes, my rulers stole all the savings! you probably didn’t have them! you probably 90.kh.years! ask your parents!
        Quote: 31231
        In addition to sticking out in the internet.

        I come from work and watch, read! not like some! hi
  • The comment was deleted.
  • skeptic
    skeptic 17 January 2014 11: 43
    +11
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    , nothing new costs here, the plants are shut down, everything is gone.


    Yes ... As it reminds, a carriage of onions was rotten, and now, in the spring, several sprouts peered out. And at once nezSprosraltsy convinced, something, well, is and even tries to grow. Still on such a multi-ton humus, a pair of sprouts would not survive.
    Yes, while this dead end bullshit will be - no industry, except for shopping malls and other consumer goods, will not shine. And, I’m lying - export-oriented enterprises will be built, especially environmentally hazardous.
    1. 31231
      31231 17 January 2014 18: 11
      -5
      As it recalls, the onion carriage was rotten, and now, in the spring, several sprouts peered out. And at once nezSprosraltsy convinced, something, well, is and even tries to grow. Still on such a multi-ton humus, a pair of sprouts would not survive.

      In the 90s, these two cars were not found either. You are all prospers, it is stupid to prove something, you have a comparison with the Union. But that's why Italy never compared its present times with the times of the Roman Empire. England has lost a bunch of colonies and, too, does not sprinkle ashes on its head, but works and produces. Only here demagogues and populists whine and caster the power. Well, Ukraine changes power every election, has it become a better life? Before that, they had already chosen that they see happiness in the EU, not noticing this coming "happiness" in the Baltics.
      You have all-prosraliters, if you built something, then you must have cut it, if something is closed, then the whole country is in crisis.
      1. skeptic
        skeptic 18 January 2014 14: 53
        +2
        Quote: 31231
        You have all-prosraliters, if you built something, then you must have cut it, if something is closed, then the whole country is in crisis.


        Well dear 31231! Perhaps inside the Garden Ring, or from a pot, the country looks more optimistic, but for the overwhelming majority of compatriots living among the ruins of its former grandeur, the emergence of new Pepsiko and other GMO chips is not raising the economy. And the construction of entertainment facilities, even sports the hands of foreign firms is not the construction of high-tech, machine-tool factories. Yes, with us, something, somewhere, is produced piece by piece, if only the production corresponds to the dangers. Having one child in families is also fertility, but this is a direct path to the degeneration of Slavic Russia. And so I would have shouted Hurray, give a real reason.
  • SolomonSS
    SolomonSS 17 January 2014 08: 35
    +1
    I agree with you that now they are only whining about this. And to do something, it is necessary to work and do it, not everyone can.

    But I can say for sure. To start some serious production, legal methods will fail. Taxation, interest rates on loans, kickbacks, bros (no one has canceled them) and so on to drive a person in such a way that remains necessary. And frankly, for 23 years (since 1991), I have not heard or seen that a person (several people) took (s) and built (s) a factory.
    Now the country is surviving on a buy-sell-steal basis. The latter applies to our dear not sleeping deputies and their "friends", the Olympics alone are worth something. You can write a whole book - "Olympics 2014-SOCHI. Or a guide how to spend the budget of several countries in a short period and get rich."

    The result is this. There is no point in whining. It is necessary to do business. Well, in case of emergency, if you squeeze everyone - the revolution has not yet been canceled (here maybe Nuremberg will be in Russian then).
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 17 January 2014 11: 23
      +4
      Quote: SolomonSS
      Well, in case of emergency, if you squeeze everyone - no one has yet canceled the revolution

      If it really approaches this, they will organize a war game for us, to let off steam on an external enemy.
      1. Valkyrie
        Valkyrie 17 January 2014 11: 32
        +6
        This is already happening. Zomboyaschik works for it.
    2. CALL.
      CALL. 17 January 2014 13: 27
      0
      Quote: SolomonSS
      Well, in case of emergency, if you squeeze everyone - no one has yet canceled the revolution

      In the UN Convention "On the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide" dated 09.12.1948/2/19.12.1966 in Art. 1: “In this convention, genocide refers to the following acts committed with the intention of completely or partially destroying a nationality, ethnic, racial or religious group as such ... (intentionally creating living conditions for any group that are designed to complete and partial physical destruction of it ... measures designed to prevent childbearing in the environment of such a group ...)? And further it is clearly stipulated that criminal persons are “liable to punishment” irrespective of whether they are rulers, officials or private persons responsible under the constitution. ” Persons accused of committing genocide or other acts listed in Article III shall be tried by the competent court of the state in whose territory the act was committed, or by such an international criminal court as may have jurisdiction over the parties to this Convention who have recognized the jurisdiction of such a court . In another document - "International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights" of XNUMX. in Art. XNUMX - it says: “All peoples, in order to achieve their goals, are free to dispose of their natural wealth and resources. And no people can in any case be deprived of their means of subsistence. ” It follows logically from the above documents that turning a country into a raw material base, robbing the indigenous population, creating conditions for extinction, is a crime against human rights. Depriving people of their inalienable means of subsistence (land, subsoil, water, flora and fauna) is a form of genocide.
      On December 10, 1948, by resolution 217 (A) III, the United Nations General Assembly adopted the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (hereinafter - the Declaration).
      Just in case, I would like to recall here that according to part 4 of article 15 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation, universally recognized principles and norms of international law and international treaties of the Russian Federation are an integral part of its legal system. If other rules are established by an international treaty of the Russian Federation than those provided by law, the rules of the international treaty shall apply.
      The declaration was ratified by the Russian Federation on May 5, 1998.
      So, in the preamble to the Declaration there are the following words. Whereas recognition of the dignity inherent in all members of the human family and their equal and inalienable rights is the basis of freedom, justice and universal peace; and taking into account that neglect and contempt for human rights led to barbaric acts that outrage the conscience of mankind, and that the creation of a world in which people have freedom of speech and belief and will be free from fear and need is proclaimed as a high aspiration of people ; and bearing in mind that it is necessary that human rights be protected by the rule of law in order to ensure that a person is not forced to resort as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression;
  • GDP
    GDP 17 January 2014 10: 08
    +8
    It is not a matter of lamentable groans, but of not forgetting what these Judeans have done to our country. To remember this, not only we, but also our children and grandchildren. So that these bastards in our history are not effective managers and reformers, but those who they are - traitors ...

    And of course, you need to work even harder, to make your small contribution daily to the future of our great country ...
    1. SolomonSS
      SolomonSS 17 January 2014 10: 16
      +3
      Yes, that's for sure. But to your and my regret, the history is written by those who are in power.
      And what we write here on the Internet will not change anything. So, outlet, no more. Changes will only happen when people are tired of this obscurantism. And what they do with the country and its people.
    2. SRC P-15
      SRC P-15 17 January 2014 15: 46
      +2
      Quote: GDP
      So that these bastards in our history are not effective managers and reformers, but those who they are - traitors.

      And no one considers them effective, except in quotation marks. They are traitors and there are, you can even say pests. They deliberately destroyed our economy, following the advice of overseas owners. They must be erased from history altogether so that there is not even a hint of their existence. Scum, she is scum.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  • Russ69
    Russ69 17 January 2014 10: 55
    +2
    Quote: afire
    and plaintive moans are not our method, they are only angry, they do not affect the construction and development

    +
    Without crying, many can no longer ... lament, it is always easier ...
  • killganoff
    killganoff 17 January 2014 11: 19
    +7
    Do you really believe that the attitude of the current government towards our homeland has changed ??? Nowadays, only the good is covered in the media, and the bad is not customary to show. Russia, as before, is sailing into the abyss.
  • Horla
    Horla 17 January 2014 11: 52
    0
    What you are talking about is possible only under socialism!
  • Horla
    Horla 17 January 2014 11: 52
    0
    What you are talking about is possible only under socialism!
  • Ustas
    Ustas 17 January 2014 08: 37
    +1
    Quote: 225chay
    The punishment should be today, now!

    And where today to find in Russia that force that can take power into the hands of Russia’s own good and punish all this pack, and also throw all foreigners who are godlessly robbing from Russian land?
    1. GDP
      GDP 17 January 2014 10: 17
      0
      Give a revolution! All power to the people!
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 10: 27
        +3
        Quote: GDP
        Give a revolution!

        Go do the revolution in the USA, and leave Russia alone.
      2. SolomonSS
        SolomonSS 17 January 2014 11: 07
        +2
        Quote: GDP
        Give a revolution! All power to the people!


        I am for. Nothing else can change in the country. Everything is rotten so that no other way. But you need to do everything wisely, you don’t need to chop off your shoulder with a saber.

        And who likes that the country is plundered and mocked at the peoples as they want, let them vote further for Putin and Medvedev and support this genocide of the Russian people.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 11: 38
          -1
          Quote: SolomonSS

          I am for. Nothing else can change in the country

          Well, tell me, dear, where and in which country have changes for the better as a result of revolutions in recent years?
          1. SolomonSS
            SolomonSS 17 January 2014 11: 57
            +2
            It depends on who makes them and for what purpose.

            You cannot watch for a short period. This is a long process of formation, which depends on many factors. Those screamers who lead the "opposition" are no more than clowns, nothing good will come of them.

            And which countries, according to the course of history, in one of such countries maybe you lived, dear, is called the USSR.
            Libya, Syria in the 20th century since the end of the 60s, until the interest of the United States and the world community converged on them.

            I agree with you that revolutions will not play beneficially for the state on the same day, and a lot of negative things will happen. A miracle does not happen at once, not in such a world we live. This is a long way associated with the stamina and work of people.
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 12: 05
              0
              Quote: SolomonSS
              It depends on who makes them and for what purpose.

              Oh well, and for what purpose revolution is being made, slogans everywhere promise paradise, but the result is everywhere poverty and blood.
              Quote: SolomonSS
              e screamers who lead the "opposition" are no more than clowns, nothing good will come of them.

              But aren't they behind the revolutions, and aren't they eventually coming to power?
              Quote: SolomonSS
              And which countries, according to the course of history, in one of such countries maybe you lived, dear, is called the USSR.

              I said in recent years, and by the way about the USSR, in 1917 those came to power who Stalin then soaked in toilets and did the right thing.
              1. SolomonSS
                SolomonSS 17 January 2014 12: 10
                0
                There is no point in arguing! How many people have so many opinions.
              2. skeptic
                skeptic 17 January 2014 12: 13
                +3
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                Oh well, and for what purpose revolution is being made, slogans everywhere promise paradise, but the result is everywhere poverty and blood.


                A striking example is restructuring.
          2. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 17 January 2014 13: 24
            0
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Well, tell me, dear, where and in which country have changes for the better as a result of revolutions in recent years?

            Do you even know a country in which a revolution has occurred in recent years? laughing
          3. Kunar
            Kunar 17 January 2014 17: 09
            0
            how many last years?
  • Patriot
    Patriot 17 January 2014 16: 29
    +2
    Yes, there’s nothing to pull away and to finish so that we have nothing to lose
  • Vadivak
    Vadivak 17 January 2014 08: 33
    +19
    Quote: Christian
    Even if they do not get what they deserve here, believe me, in eternal life eternal suffering threatens them very much!


    And our liberal luminaries were frightened and held another sabbath. Gaidar Shabash 2014.

    But I join you. DRINK SAME FOR the tar in the boilers to be hot and the devils evil
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 17 January 2014 10: 49
      +1
      Quote: Vadivak
      DRINK THE SAME FOR THAT

      Hi Vadim. hi It’s still morning, but you’re blowing a drink. laughing Whatever the resin cools down, you need to go for firewood.
    2. Kunar
      Kunar 17 January 2014 17: 12
      +2
      How many times will I see, so many times will I kill ... (c) Bumbarash
  • The comment was deleted.
  • 222222
    222222 17 January 2014 10: 19
    +4
    yesterday on the RBC TV channel An exclusive interview with Anatoly Chubais, Chairman of the Board of RUSNANO.
    http://rbctv.rbc.ru/archive/ekskluziv/562949990265012.shtml
    ..that Rusnano appears to have created and built 53 plants not to make a profit, but to "create a new business and attract investment." ....
    Gaidar forum http://www.gaidarforum.ru/ru/
    1. skeptic
      skeptic 17 January 2014 12: 10
      +6
      Quote: 222222
      ..that Rusnano appears to have created and built 53 plants not to make a profit, but to "create a new business and attract investment." ....


      Well, what did you want. At the beginning of perestroika, he was ruining the economy, arguing that he was hammering nails into the coffin of communism. Time has passed. As a sign of promotion, he was instructed to nail in the future of Russia. Apparently from the point of view of modern power, this entrusted him with - he is boiling up successfully.
  • kris
    kris 17 January 2014 10: 41
    +6
    quote:During the years of liberal "reform" hundreds of factories and plants destroyed
    The worst thing is that these liberal reforms are actively ongoing!
    but now these "effective" managers have moved to the next level.
    they are in the government, in deputies, in governors, etc.
    GDP also from theirs. St. Petersburg’s property was held under his leadership.
  • starshina78
    starshina78 17 January 2014 11: 01
    +6
    What will happen in eternal life is unknown, but the fact that they are fattening in the present and are not responsible for anything is bad. I've written about "effective managers" more than once. Some of them run the plant where I work. They worked so "effectively" that the plant, a monopolist in its industry, was left with horns and legs. They stole them for themselves, which is profitable (certain types of production, especially valuable ones, were removed from the plant in a closed joint-stock company), and the entire plant, which previously consisted of 22 workshops, is now 10 semi-abandoned workshops, in which no more than 20-30 workers work. When in Soviet times, two-thirds of the shops worked around the clock, and the payroll was about 800-1200 people. The salary is a penny, for which the director flies by helicopter, cars for at least 100000 euros. How! And you can't drive them out, they bought up the shares of the plant! So the owners! So that they have no bottom, no cover!
  • Alexander, M
    Alexander, M 17 January 2014 12: 40
    +4
    Reforms in Lipetsk were demolished, Europe’s machine-tool building complex is now here, Lipetsk Tractor Plant costs 10 years, it’s scary to look at the administrative building without window frames, the dining room is like after an explosion, the workshops are pouring water into them, etc. the workshops that operate on the military-industrial complex seem to be closed, they are being protected. LMZ Svobodny Sokol approved a deal to lease 64% of its property, halted pipe production because of their lack of demand. The main owner of NLMK Vladimir Lisin was interviewed by the magazine. the illegitimacy of the privatization of the 1990s, "as a result of which priceless enterprises fell into the hands of random people." What do you think about that?

    - Discussing the privatization of the 1990s is as interesting as the topic of perestroika and revolution. All this is history. The answer to your question can only give time. Although we can evaluate today. Random people can appear in any business. In business, the same thing. After all, we don’t remember many of the “heroes” of the 1990s. In this sense, crises are very useful. They clean the business, putting everything in place. - Periodically, there is talk about the illegitimacy of the privatization of the 1990s, "as a result of which priceless enterprises fell into the hands of random people." What do you think about that?

    - Discussing the privatization of the 1990s is as interesting as the topic of perestroika and revolution. All this is history. The answer to your question can only give time. Although we can evaluate today. Random people can appear in any business. In business, the same thing. After all, we don’t remember many of the “heroes” of the 1990s. In this sense, crises are very useful. They cleanse the business, putting everything in place. - Periodically there is talk of the illegitimacy of the privatization of the 1990s, "as a result of which priceless enterprises fell into the hands of random people." What do you think about that?

    - Discussing the privatization of the 1990s is as interesting as the topic of perestroika and revolution. All this is history. The answer to your question can only give time. Although we can evaluate today. Random people can appear in any business. In business, the same thing. After all, we don’t remember many of the “heroes” of the 1990s. In this sense, crises are very useful. They clean the business, putting everything in place.
  • Roman 1977
    Roman 1977 17 January 2014 14: 31
    +8
    I subscribe to every word in the article:


    1. VeryHardClown
      VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 14: 52
      +5
      and there is no centerpiece in the photo ... although yes, but somehow it’s not a complete composition ...
  • Stalnov I.P.
    Stalnov I.P. 17 January 2014 15: 01
    +2
    Who runs the economy now, JURIST, in the past became weak, a little representative of Gazprom, the state was ruled by a drunkard in the 90s, sorry for pinching stenographers by the ass. Here is a list of former managers and their minions no better than their masters. All of these figures have long gone to trial. he will come, at least a historical court is already going, how many times, they doused the monument to Yeltsin in Sverdlovsk and in Gaidar in Moscow, that’s the people's love for the JUDAH.
    1. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 17 January 2014 16: 06
      +3
      Quotation: I.P.
      Who runs the economy now JURIST, in the past weakened, a little representative of Gazprom
  • nycsson
    nycsson 17 January 2014 19: 00
    +4
    Strong article. Surprised that she posted!
  • Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 17 January 2014 19: 12
    +3
    many of the narrow-minded can now laugh, but the "ruby" is black and white, very highly quoted in western Europe only 30 years ago. because he himself is a witness ... and we also easily changed the "climber" to the "bluepunkt" with a surcharge, and the Germans did not skimp! so no need to find fault with Soviet electronics! if not for the nineties, half of Europe would have watched Ruby's plasma ...
  • invisibility
    invisibility 17 January 2014 07: 20
    +7
    I do not want to wait! May punishment befall them in this life! For such things you have to do the same as with the Nazi criminals! U ... ki crap ... e !!!!!
    1. alexdol
      alexdol 17 January 2014 08: 11
      +9
      invisible SU "I don't want to wait! Let punishment befall them in this life!"
      ---------------------------------------------------------------------
      Here I am of the same opinion! Just see what is happening? Take the same "Serdyukov" and the company, plundered the military budget and NOTHING, like water off a duck's back! Kvachkov, a patriot of RUSSIA, was sentenced to 13 years, then, however, they were knocked off for 5 years ... What can you expect from this THIEF government? Here one bear cub and all his entourage, for example, a relatively new figure - DVORKOVICH, must be judged and HANGED, but they are all free and continue their destructive activities! Making a conclusion? SOMEONE NEEDS THIS! And what about Putin, and the answer is SILENCE! Here I will give a link to my verse "Simple Law", there it is just a question of thieves who became "masters"
      http://www.stihi.ru/2009/06/26/2860
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 08: 17
        -3
        Quote: alexdol
        what Putin, and in response SILENCE!

        you will understand the madhouse in your homeland, and we will figure out who is who.
        1. VeryHardClown
          VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 08: 45
          +13
          and he is not Russian since he has a Ukrainian flag? for you, the nation is determined by the flag and not the language of the bearer of the culture? you are hopelessly stupid and disgusting once reproaches one single person who wrote here, a person who is interested in what they write in runets, Russian-speaking and more Russian by blood than you with your "royal" surname, since for you it has become a matter of parity "beyond doubt" ...
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 09: 08
            -14%
            Quote: VeryHardClown
            and what is he - not Russian since he has the Ukrainian flag?

            Maybe Russian, but he lives in another country, so far in another. So let him deal with his maidan.
            Quote: VeryHardClown
            for you, the nation defines the flag and not the language of the carrier of culture?

            And for you not? Or for you all people are brothers.
            Quote: VeryHardClown
            you are hopelessly stupid and vile

            I’m not good and stupid, but you’re screaming a lot and haven’t provided a single link to all your screams, so clever, where am I to you?
            1. 222222
              222222 17 January 2014 10: 43
              +8
              Alexander Romanov (2) RU Today, 09: 08 ↑
              "Maybe Russian, but he lives in another country, so far in another. So let them deal with their maidan."
              Here you are probably very mistaken that the Maidan is purely our-Ukrainian .. This is an international creation and primarily against Russia ..
              Now about nationalities and place of residence .. Anatoly Wasserman, who lives in Odessa, does more for the unity of the Slavic world than the sum of many forums and the Militia .. recently Anatoly Wasserman released a new book .. AA Vasserman, "Acute strategic failure". . read ???
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 10: 52
                -7
                Quote: 222222
                .. This is an international creation and, first of all, against Russia.

                And what, again, you will wait for someone to come and rake your problems. Russia will protect itself and it will protect Putin, and with your words Putin is quiet. It does what you (figuratively-politicians) do in Ukraine, where the devil knows what is happening I can not understand
                Quote: 222222
                .. recently Anatoly Wasserman released a new book .. Wasserman AA, "Acute strategic failure" .. read ???

                Advertise a book or something. Wasserman’s camps and so on the site constantly
                1. 222222
                  222222 17 January 2014 11: 03
                  +5
                  Alexander Romanov (2) RU Today, 09: 08
                  Sorry .. but you are inappropriately aggressive .. This is not good ... ok
                  1. Alexander Romanov
                    Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 11: 09
                    -4
                    Quote: 222222
                    Sorry .. but you are inappropriately aggressive ..

                    Well, where is the aggression in my comments above? quote if not difficult.
                    1. Alexander Romanov
                      Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 11: 27
                      -3
                      Minus set, and quotes will be?
                    2. 222222
                      222222 17 January 2014 11: 35
                      +1
                      Alexander Romanov (2) RU Today, 11: 09 ↑
                      "Well, where is the aggression in my comment above? Quote, if not difficult."
                      Not difficult..
                      @ And what, again, you will wait for someone to come and rake your problems. Russia will protect itself and protect yourself, and Putin, with your words, is a quiet thing. What do you (figuratively-politicians) do in Ukraine, where the devil knows what is happening I can’t understand @
                      Now, what is being done in Ukraine ... On January 16, the Supreme Council passed 10 laws ..
                      http://delo.ua/ukraine/kakie-zakonoproekty-segodnja-prinjali-v-rade-224468/
                      President of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych signed five of ten laws adopted by the Verkhovna Rada on Thursday, January 16.
                      http://news.mail.ru/inworld/ukraina/global/112/politics/16516482/
                      Now in society there is an acute debate over them .. For example, http: //news.liga.net/articles/politics/960446-chrezvychaynoe_po
                      lozhenie
                      _v_profil_10_zakonov_menyayushchikh_ukrainu.htm
                      Those Authorities are trying to find a way out of this situation and find it legally
                      1. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 12: 07
                        0
                        Quote: 222222
                        And what, again, you will wait for someone to come and rake your problems. Russia will protect itself and it will protect Putin, and with your words Putin is quiet. It does what you (figuratively-politicians) do in Ukraine, where the devil knows what is happening I can not understand

                        Is it aggression?
                        Quote: 222222
                        Now what is being done in Ukraine.

                        What is being done in Ukraine here and so everyone knows, articles are published constantly and Egoza helps.
                      2. 222222
                        222222 17 January 2014 12: 30
                        +3
                        Alexander Romanov (2) RU Today, 12: 07 ↑ New
                        Good advice - stop surfing the Internet .. in the fresh air .. well, in extreme cases, get a mistress ..
                      3. military
                        military 17 January 2014 16: 05
                        +3
                        Quote: 222222
                        .. into the fresh air .. well, in extreme cases, get a mistress ..

                        at the very least - two ... or - three ... laughing
        2. alexdol
          alexdol 18 January 2014 10: 39
          +1
          Quote: VeryHardClown "you are hopelessly stupid and disgusting"
          This was the answer to "Mr." Romanov! Thank you for this comrade, as it were, stood up for me, it's a pity that his comment was WHY deleted? But I myself am able to answer this "gentleman"! I completely agree with the characteristic that was given to him! I am not "Maybe Russian, but lives in another country", but RUSSIAN, and I think that I live in RUSSIA, in that its part, which today is called "Ukraine"! But what can be explained to such "gentlemen" as novels and the like? I have already met such people when they also "advised not to interfere in Russian affairs"! They think they are smart, but in reality show a complete absence of MIND! And if you take his "royal" surname - ROMANOV, then this is still a big question, who is hiding behind it? In any case, his behavior and REASONS are rather not a RUSSIAN person, and the chosen AVATARKA also says something about I personally watch it AGAINST, what kind of a NEW-RUSSIAN he is, if so, then most of them are not RUSSIAN at all! I don't want to say anything to this "gentleman" anymore ...
    2. Heccrbq.3
      Heccrbq.3 17 January 2014 11: 18
      +2
      The answer is in style --- Do-it-yourself cancer.
      1. VeryHardClown
        VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 14: 54
        +3
        Are you fake Alexandra Romanova, or is it just pleasure for you to lick so tightly?
  • invisibility
    invisibility 17 January 2014 20: 25
    0
    In order not to write above, I consider the Ukrainian SSR and BSSR my land, as well as Ukrainian and Belarusian, lay claim to part of our great Motherland. We are one people and should be together. It will be so.
  • makarov
    makarov 17 January 2014 07: 22
    +8
    Is it possible that the collapse of production occurred only in the Russian Federation ??? In Ukraine, he continues to actively move forward ... everything that is possibly cut and scrapped ... even cartridge lines are cut out, and if in the Russian Federation they are trying to restore something, then the Ukagan authorities in Ukraine do not know the restrictions, they live one day - grab more, and today !!!
  • morpogr
    morpogr 17 January 2014 07: 32
    +5
    These effective ones did the same thing on the basis of selling what was dishonestly acquired abroad with money. And I hope that he will be able to use his Nuremberg over all sorts of kokhs, chubays and ebn oh, and the better the faster.
  • Horn
    Horn 17 January 2014 07: 37
    +1
    In the guidepark, this article was sucked two days ago.
  • Fox
    Fox 17 January 2014 07: 39
    +2
    unfortunately (my), this list goes on and on ....
  • Combitor
    Combitor 17 January 2014 07: 43
    +7
    It worked again, as always. Died Brezhnev - became bad. They removed Gorbachev from cases - the same thing. They buried Yeltsin - again "my" bones are now for him. The current helmsman is now white and fluffy. Retirement - let's get down to it. So maybe it's time to start asking with him now? I have done enough with my lackeys and accomplices. We'll ask at least one during his lifetime. Moreover, there is a reason.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 07: 52
      0
      Quote: Kombitor
      So, maybe now it’s time to start asking from him

      What will you show? Russia's recovery from the poverty of the late 90s?
      1. VeryHardClown
        VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 07: 56
        +1
        at least only the nuclear submarine "Kursk", it will pull for execution
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 08: 10
          +3
          Quote: VeryHardClown
          at least only the nuclear submarine "Kursk",

          So Putin drowned her personally? Or would you just blink.
          1. VeryHardClown
            VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 08: 17
            -2
            from his words it turned out that she "drowned" - for me it is tantamount to the fact that he personally drowned her, rescuing the sailors who knew the reasons for the sinking of the nuclear submarine was unprofitable for him, despite the relatively shallow depth of sinking.
            100 meters is not a serious depth for our divers, there would be a team - everyone who survived was evacuated, but there was no command. the fact that the sailors are alive confirmed the documents left by the crew after torpedo explosion. but there is one thing, "she drowned"
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 08: 48
              +3
              Quote: VeryHardClown
              from his words it turned out that she "drowned" - for me this is equivalent to the fact that he personally drowned her

              It’s hard for you, sure.
              Quote: VeryHardClown
              the mouth of the sailors who knew the reasons for the sinking of the nuclear submarine was unprofitable for him, despite the relatively small depth of the sinking.
              100 meters is not serious depth for our divers

              Well, yes, rescuing people from an exploded boat, and even in the absence of rescue equipment, is the result of disarmament.
              Quote: VeryHardClown
              ... the fact that the sailors are alive confirmed the documents left by the crew after the torpedo explosion. but there is one thing, "she drowned

              You know, you are one of those who are not interested in looking for the real perpetrators. You are the one who yells Putin is to blame for everything. He probably ordered the torpedo attack. By the way, I don’t remember the South Korean frigate or corvette, it was sunk by a North Korean boat. Probably to blame South Korean president is that he drowned.
              1. VeryHardClown
                VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 08: 54
                +1
                the fact that there were no life-saving appliances and specially trained people - did Putin personally report to you?
                From the General Staff
                encouraging news from the Russian fleet that
                distressed submariners have almost everything - even warm blankets.
                To save the Kursk sailors, they first tried to use
                diving bells - but to no avail. Two days later in place
                disaster arrived ship with two underwater rescue vehicles-
                tami. For many days they swarmed at the dying submarine, with
                it is known what results of their activity. And only after five
                days after the accident began, senior Russian officials reached
                stole about getting help from the British with their minisubmarine LR-5.
                And almost simultaneously, another hurried to the disaster area
                Norwegian ship - this time without any submarine, but only with
                a team of divers. But all the hopes and attention of the public was only
                to the English LR-5, and to the Norwegian divers attention almost
                no one paid, and they went on their campaign almost
                smuggling - on their own initiative. And it’s not just like that:
                because the divers, in principle, were not able to pull out the living Russians
                sailors through a hundred-meter water column. The role of divers by all
                was supposed to be purely auxiliary. But it turned out that the divers
                - the only ones who were able to do at least something useful in this
                operations. And now everyone praises them. However, the public is simply not
                notices that these divers did NOT DO ANYTHING - they don’t
                saved not a single person, the only thing - opened the hatch, but great
                is there any benefit People died anyway ...
                1. Alexander Romanov
                  Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 09: 10
                  +4
                  Quote: VeryHardClown
                  the fact that there were no life-saving appliances and specially trained people - did Putin personally report to you?

                  Where is there ? I mean the fleet, in Kamchatka they saved it with the help of English scorpions. And along the divers, we still need rescue relations, or maybe tell me how to get people out of the compartments. Maybe with the help of broken torpedo tubes.
                  1. VeryHardClown
                    VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 09: 34
                    +2
                    the main task - the delivery of air to the ventilation system was not only not completed, it was not even set. with the supply of oxygen, submariners could live for a month waiting for outside help.
                    1. Alexander Romanov
                      Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 09: 37
                      0
                      Quote: VeryHardClown
                      the main task - the delivery of air to the ventilation system was not only not completed, it was not even set

                      What was personally present where tasks were set and orders were given? Where did the respected serve? And did you serve at all, since you write such crap.
                      1. VeryHardClown
                        VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 09: 55
                        +3
                        in March 1939, the Americans sank the submarine Skvolus, and at almost the same depth as the Russian Kursk - 90 m. And the Americans managed to save most of the crew of the submarine.
                        YEAR 1939 !!!! DEPTH SIMILAR !!! DO YOU REALLY AFFIRM THAT FOR HALF A WE HAVE SO SO MUCH, THAT WE CAN'T DOWN THE DIVERS FOR HUNDREDS OF METERS ?!
                      2. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 10: 18
                        0
                        Quote: VeryHardClown
                        in March 1939, the Americans sank the submarine Skvolus, and at almost the same depth as the Russian Kursk - 90 m. And the Americans managed to save most of the crew of the submarine.

                        I would see how they would save their modern boat if a torpedo flew into it.
                        And I understand my question: Have you served, will remain unanswered. Clearly, I have no more questions.
                      3. VeryHardClown
                        VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 10: 46
                        +7
                        you are simply hopeless, at first there were no technical means, then there were no divers, now the question is about the submarine itself due to its "modernity". and of course the transition to personalities ...
                        the question is not in me and not in you, but in how it is interpreted. we found out that to work at a depth of 100 meters, special equipment is not needed, the only thing that is needed for divers is a breathing mixture and hoses for supplying an air-helium mixture? the next moment - equipment - air bells? they were there, all issues of acceptability for decompression for the work of submariners are removed. to open the submarine’s hull - there were no blueprints or underwater welding? or maybe you really think that only a lightsaber Jedi sword is capable of this problem ??? frankly nonsense. there were no armored hoses for supplying a submarine crew to a depth of 100 meters? in addition, when air was supplied under high pressure, water could be squeezed out of the compartments.
                        modern divers work quite comfortably at depths of up to 300 meters, a depth of 100 meters is simply not serious. but the divers needed orders, what to do, what measures to carry out, what tasks were top priority. The primary task was to provide air supply, but no one set this task for divers.
                      4. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 11: 13
                        +1
                        Quote: VeryHardClown
                        at first there were no technical means, then divers, now the question is about the submarine itself, due to its "modernity".


                        And again the question: WHERE DO I SERVE?
                      5. VeryHardClown
                        VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 11: 31
                        0
                        am i obligated to answer? are you from the commandant’s office? what authority do you have for such statements?
                      6. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 12: 10
                        +1
                        Quote: VeryHardClown
                        am i obligated to answer?

                        And what is there to answer, where did he serve? Here many served and calmly answer where and when, no one does the mystery.
                        Quote: VeryHardClown
                        ? what authority do you have for such statements?

                        Powers ??? I asked, where did you serve or slope?
                      7. VeryHardClown
                        VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 12: 54
                        +2
                        I see no reason to answer such questions, you are a provocateur and a person deeply unpleasant to me, judging by your words, thoughts, statements and, accordingly, actions. I’m not going to feed such a troll as you - I’m not going to think of any food, suffer in guesses, this is a question of your libido, it is incommensurably huge for you. and the more libido the less brain
                      8. Alexander Romanov
                        Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 13: 44
                        -3
                        Quote: VeryHardClown
                        I see no reason to answer such questions

                        Well, say so, I did NOT SERVE, but I know better than anyone how to save the jokes laughing Although people like you won't kick in the army, you can see right away.
                        That's when you serve, then you’ll ponte here, but goodbye tongue
                      9. VeryHardClown
                        VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 14: 35
                        +2
                        I will repeat - this is just kicking your libido, it replaces you with a brain that you clearly do not have. you are limited and stupid and I'm not surprised why you "work" here as an administrator, because you have a position that you must protect or, as the watchmen used to shout, "ordered not to let go!" for you, the protection of the current occupation regime is only a service, you are in the service of the occupiers
        2. 31231
          31231 17 January 2014 19: 58
          -2
          Quote: VeryHardClown
          And the Americans managed to save most of the crew of the boat. YEAR 1939 !!!!

          16.04.1951/421/XNUMX HMS Affray (PXNUMX) United Kingdom - all submariners are mufflers.
          10.04.1963/593/XNUMX USS Thresher (SSN-XNUMX) USA - all overhead. It's strange how the mega-superpower didn't save them ?! Spiderman must have been "out of reach" in the Bahamas. And Batman does not save in the underwater world, otherwise he would, doooo!
          25.01.1968/77/XNUMX INS Dakar (Z-XNUMX) Israel is all a snag. Is it not otherwise that a shahid from Hamas got to the submarine fleet of Israel ?! By the way, poor Levi Eshkol was shot. Well, what about ?! It is only in the USSR (Russia) that the country's leadership is pardoned.
          27.01.1968/647/XNUMX Minerve (S-XNUMX) France. Such a general and president were not spared by the French, shot. As before, sometimes I cry for De Gaulle. For some kind of submarine, take his life. crying

          Further, continue?
        3. VeryHardClown
          VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 22: 24
          +1
          take the trouble to indicate the depth and yes, perhaps continue, but only with an indication of the occurrence at a depth, distance from the coast (nuclear submarine "Kursk" 175 km from the coast in the Barents Sea, at a depth of 100 meters, on the rescue ships that approached the crash site there were as many as 2 underwater bells, talking about the absence of divers, equipment and compressors is simply inappropriate)
        4. pl675
          pl675 17 January 2014 22: 46
          -1
          Quote: VeryHardClown
          take the trouble to indicate the depth and yes, perhaps continue, but only with an indication of the occurrence at a depth, distance from the coast (nuclear submarine "Kursk" 175 km from the coast in the Barents Sea, at a depth of 100 meters, on the rescue ships that approached the crash site there were as many as 2 underwater bells, talking about the absence of divers, equipment and compressors is simply inappropriate)


          I propose to end the argument that no one needs - no place and no reason.
          I’ll draw a line with your permission -
          let this secret remain on the conscience of those who allowed all this.
          this is not Putin.
          ps - for the phrase "she drowned" and "these prostitutes were paid ten dollars" - he must answer before God.
        5. VeryHardClown
          VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 22: 52
          +1
          Do not give an answer to print. I’m writing specifically what happened to which boat, but the filter doesn’t let me in!
          they still haven’t found French if Cho, Israeli after 30 years, English after 3 months, American just fell apart
          and yes - there is no God and the prostitutes know about it
      2. 31231
        31231 17 January 2014 23: 53
        -4
        Not only did he not serve in the army, but he also did not learn to use the Internet ?!
        Put "submarine accidents" into the search engine and read.
        In general, it’s better to go and serve. Perhaps you’ll find yourself in the submariners.
      3. VeryHardClown
        VeryHardClown 18 January 2014 00: 12
        +1
        Well, I’m just able to use it. all the fatal accidents you have laid out are quite natural for simple reasons.
        1) An Israeli ship was found 30 years later.
        2) French was not found at all
        3) an English submarine was discovered after more than 3 months
        4) the American submarine was depressurized and fell apart (into three parts) at a depth of 300 meters.
        QUESTION. Does at least one of the proposed special cases fit the description of the situation with the Kursk nuclear submarine?
        generally don't write me a meaningless piece
  • JIaIIoTb
    JIaIIoTb 17 January 2014 09: 08
    -1
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    The president of South Korea is probably to blame for the fact that he drowned.

    It’s Putin’s fault too.
    1. military
      military 17 January 2014 11: 42
      +2
      Quote: JIaIIoTb
      It’s Putin’s fault too.

      all-ringleaders: - Putin is to blame for everything!
      alleyschiki: - Putin is not to blame for anything!
      the truth is somewhere in the middle ... but this truth stinks pretty ...
    2. Normal
      Normal 17 January 2014 15: 51
      +2
      Quote: JIaIIoTb
      It’s Putin’s fault too.


      Putin is not to blame for the all-industrialists ...
      NEVER!
      NOT WITH ANYTHING!
      Directly some kind of "Rafik" is floating ..., "niu chom neinouaty"
  • Dazdranagon
    Dazdranagon 17 January 2014 11: 01
    +2
    Don't touch Kursk, there is most likely a muddy story, the truth about which may never be revealed ... hi
  • 31231
    31231 17 January 2014 19: 37
    -1
    at least only the nuclear submarine "Kursk", it will pull for execution


    Oga-oga, after all, the twins shot Bush over the towers. But Obama is shot almost every month, either for the crash of an airplane, or for a helicopter, or for the game of the Strategic Rocket Forces generals in a casino. wink
    But most of the shooting bullets go to Israeli prime ministers. What is not a terrorist attack, then keep the line from Uzi. wink
    That's just the bastard McCain did not answer for the aircraft carrier! But nothing will become president shot. fellow
  • Combitor
    Combitor 17 January 2014 08: 20
    +12
    Alexander Romanov, who is now most admired by the Russian Fuhrer, will then also water his slops with the same zeal. This can be seen in the example of all the previous leaders of our country. The same ardent Yeltsinists now, at every opportunity, do not miss the opportunity to throw a lump of dirt on the grave of their recent idol. So, I’ll wait for your comments on future articles about the affairs of Putininoids and their leader.
    And to "restore" the country the way putinoids "restore" it, sticking to the pipes from which hydrocarbons flow and making fortunes for themselves, invested in foreign assets - you do not need a lot of intelligence and talent. It is enough to seat the right "effective" managers in the right places. And "AZLK" collected foreign iron, and collects it.
    And so that people are sometimes touched by the Führer - you can give a foal to a girl from Khakassia.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 08: 50
      +2
      Quote: Kombitor
      Alexander Romanov, who is most admired by the Russian Fuhrer

      And I’m not enthusiastic, I don’t accept lies, which are not measured in comments now.
      Quote: Kombitor
      It is enough to seat the right "effective" managers in the right places. And "AZLK" collected foreign iron, and collects it.

      Then do it yourself and better, and then look at the result. Picking keys is easy, isn't it.
      1. VeryHardClown
        VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 09: 14
        +5
        you admire Putin and do not be lazy to minus anyone who is not loyal to the authorities at all. as noted below - you are from the same breed that does not breathe in the back of the head but a meter lower
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 09: 17
          0
          Quote: VeryHardClown
          you admire Putin and do not be lazy to minus anyone who is not loyal to the authorities at all.

          This is far from the case, I rarely even put Yarosvetu minuses, only when she starts to lie. And you are lying in every comment, and you blame others for lies. Why should you put a plus?
          1. VeryHardClown
            VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 10: 04
            +1
            and what do you say for your breathtaking nonsense about the lack of special equipment for the work of divers at a depth of 100 meters ?! what kind of special equipment is needed for the divers to work at a given depth? space suit? Jedi sword? teleport?
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 10: 20
              0
              Quote: VeryHardClown
              ! what kind of special equipment is needed for the divers to work at a given depth?

              What are you really ****, to pull people out of a submarine, you probably need wire cutters. Finish the nonsense to write, first serve in the Navy, then you can understand what a boat is.
              1. VeryHardClown
                VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 10: 57
                +2
                electrical equipment, milling cutter and drill. ALL. this is the only thing you need to install high pressure hoses to supply air to a depth of 100 meters. in my opinion, air supply and saving people are tasks that can be carried out in parallel, but the priority is air supply to the submarine ventilation system
                1. Alexander Romanov
                  Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 11: 01
                  0
                  Quote: VeryHardClown
                  electrical equipment, milling cutter and drill. ALL. this is the only thing you need to install high pressure hoses to supply air to a depth of 100 meters

                  Where were you so smart when you needed to. There in the Navy all morons did not know what to do. How did you remind you of the choking in the little Kamchatka?
                2. Heccrbq.3
                  Heccrbq.3 17 January 2014 11: 23
                  0
                  Why are you talking to him? He pours general phrases, Nikerta himself does not understand. Milling cutter, a drill he did not see this live.
                  1. VeryHardClown
                    VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 11: 40
                    0
                    clear ... but you saw everything, you know everything, ate all the dogs, water and copper pipes passed fire! and in general in Russia everything is so bad and miserable that we don’t have a damn thing, no equipment, no people who can work at a depth of 100 meters and generally drank all polymers !!?!
                  2. Alexander Romanov
                    Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 12: 12
                    0
                    Quote: VeryHardClown
                    no people able to work at a depth of 100 meters and generally drank all the polymers !!?!

                    So you write that everything is prosradt. Only you have no idea about the life-saving equipment and sat. You don’t even want to answer about the place of your service, if of course there was one at all laughing Probably a white ticket wink
                  3. VeryHardClown
                    VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 12: 45
                    +3
                    I write that there are people and equipment, but there are people like you who say that there are no people or equipment, and supplying oxygen to a submarine to a depth of 100 meters is like pulling an oxygen hose into low Earth orbit.
                    your statements are obvious, at first there are no people, then there is no equipment, and finally it’s completely nonsense - a modern submarine can not be processed by metal-cutting equipment ... all other questions are not just not in essence, they are not worth the calories spent on a key press
  • Normal
    Normal 17 January 2014 10: 13
    +5
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    I do not accept lies, which is now not measured in comments.


    An example of "lies":

    OJSC “First Moscow Instrument-Making Plant named after V. A. Kazakova ”(Moscow)

    The history of the enterprise begins in 1928, when, by decision of the government, the first specialized Aviapribor factory for the production of aircraft devices was created in Fili.

    Currently, the plant is not functioning, the territory is open. There are many offices of third-party companies.
    wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=55.740714&lon=37.512002&z=15&m=b&show=/5822005/en/
    О
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 10: 40
      -3
      Quote: Normal
      An example of "lies":

      Normal, well, we’ll soon meet in another topic, I hope you will be present. We’ll sit, I bet I hope wink
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Egen
    Egen 17 January 2014 11: 27
    0
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    And I’m not enthusiastic, I don’t accept lies, which are not measured in comments now

    Here! Alexander hi don’t swear, but let’s do the facts, you yourself always love this :)
    I did not really understand who exactly the author accuses of what happened.
    Let's take a look at an example of ZIL. I will not say about the rest, not my path, but at ZIL as a future motorist :) I did an internship. In the very first year of perestroika. In stamping. "Normal" people worked only at the beginning of the shift of a couple of foremen and, in my opinion, 1 person of instrumentation, now I certainly don't remember. They got something, and the rest - just to stretch out to eat. Even in a month I did not earn a return ticket home: (And there were 30 workers of us students and the same number of Vietnamese are also temporary. This is a shift. The foreman was 1 young smart and the second old one ... yay :) Equipment - healthy presses exported from Germany, half of ours but small, and one unique German in 2, and worked! :)
    They mainly made frames. And holes in them. Probably already guessed that such personnel on such old equipment often made holes on the edge or bend ... Especially on the night shift :)
    But what is the strangest thing, do you think the beam with the wrong holes was then rejected? nothing like that! On assembly further as Khazanov said the same as we worked! :)) After that, I wondered for many years, how did these cars go after us, such ?! Yes, even as they drove, they served in a motorcade long after the production was stopped, and one Zilok still makes inter-workshop transportation at a nearby factory ... How can he take pride for a Russian person! I'm quite serious.
    This is me all the long story to what.
    If at least someone understands business, they will understand that with such a "legacy" from the modern times - equipment and personnel and a system of motivation - you will not get any competitive products. Even if you are Lee Yakoka :) To do this, you need to completely replace everything - in a simplified way, all sections of the business plan :) And in order to build something new, you need to destroy (remove) the old, and this is understandable money. Therefore, guys, this is elementary - why spend extra money on a RE-deal when you can buy an already finished product much cheaper ?! And what have managers got to do with it when it's capitalism ?! Today we build like this :( Which one was chosen ... someone ... and we have (us) :(
    Also, we take China: I wrote a lot about their cost, who doesn’t remember, I’ll tell you, but the result is the same for them. Sibur built polypropylene, well, let's see ... And this is called globalization :)
    But for example, Old Man's situation is different. His same Mogilev Khimvolokno already in the last Soviet years built half of the country with the latest equipment and technologies. Therefore, in comparison with others, he had a "head start" :)
  • Combitor
    Combitor 17 January 2014 12: 18
    +2
    Alexander Romanov, I’m doing a good job that I’ve been trained to (extinguish fires). And I bring to your attention a non-large list of plants - the result of the activities of those who "succeeded" in the destruction process (far from complete - the format does not allow it. Some are already listed in the article, but will not interfere in this list). Enterprises that went bankrupt, ceased production of their main products or closed after 2000 as a result of the “fruitful activity” of “effective managers” of the Putin era. Among them are many enterprises working for the defense industry. Such enterprises could be ruined only by enemies of our state. But for some reason, neither the Kremlin nor the government prevented them from doing this. (Based on materials from online publications).
    1.AZLK (1930–2010)
    Historical names of the plant: Moscow Automobile Assembly Plant named KIM (from 1930 to 1939 year); Moscow Automobile Plant named after KIM (from 1939 to the Great Patriotic War); Moscow plant of small cars - ZMA or MZMA (from 1945 to 1968 year); Leninsky Komsomol Automobile Plant - AZLK (from 1968 to 1992 year); JSC "Moskvich" (after 1992 year).
    In the most successful years, AZLK employed up to 25 thousands of people.
    In 2001, the plant, having released the last complete cars, finally got up.
    In subsequent years, all technological equipment, technological documentation and even the infrastructure equipment of the enterprise, despite the introduction of external management, were completely lost.
    In 2006, OAO Moskvich was officially declared bankrupt.
    A significant part of the territory of OJSC Moskvich (the former unfinished engine factory) in 1998 was included into the joint-stock company Avtoframos CJSC (about 94 percent of shares belong to Renault, 6 percent to the Bank of Moscow), currently engaged in full-scale (welding, painting, stamping (from foreign metal) body) assembly of cars Renault Logan and Renault Sandero.
    In 2009, the final transition to Avtoframos of the territory of the former OJSC Moskvich occurred in order to expand the production of Logan and Sandero cars to 160 thousand per year.
    In September 2010, the bankruptcy procedure was completed. According to the bankruptcy manager of the plant, Alexander Ivanov, the plant fully paid off wage arrears, and also paid compensation for damage to health and compensation for moral damage.
    A significant part of the vast territory AZLK now used by tenants for a variety of purposes.
    2. THE RED PROLETARY PLANT (1857 - 2010)
    Moscow Machine-Tool Plant "Red Proletariat" named after A.I. Efremova - one of the oldest and leading enterprises of machine tools in the USSR. He played a significant role in the development of machine tools in the USSR. He produced universal screw-cutting and special machines. In 1944, for the first time in the world practice of machine tool construction, a conveyor assembly of machine tools was introduced at the plant.
    Now the plant exists as OJSC KP and transferred to a new territory, at Art. m. "Kaluga" ("Construction Site"). Production of machines on it is actually suspended.
    For 11 hectares of the old plant are disputed by Vedis Group and Rosneft. This explains why so far the territory of the plant is practically not developed.
    In general, the production of metal cutting machines in Russia is about 2-3 percent of the 1990 level (about 3,5 thousand units compared to 75 thousand units in 1990).
    3. Izhevsk MOTORCYCLE PLANT (1928 - 2009)
    In January 2008, almost the entire labor collective of the Izhevsk Motorcycle Plant (LLC "IzhMoto"), which is about 480 people, received notice of the upcoming dismissal. One of the most famous brands of the republican industry - motorcycles "Izh", produced since 1929, ceased to exist.
    1. Combitor
      Combitor 17 January 2014 12: 26
      +1
      Alexander Romanov - continued:
      4. IRBIT MOTORCYCLE PLANT (1941)
      During the years of Soviet power, every fourth Irbiter worked on a motorcycle factory.
      After Ukraine gained its independence, the Irbit Motor Plant became the only company in the country producing heavy-duty motorcycles. In 1992, he was awarded the International Gold Star for quality and business initiative in Madrid. 26 October 1993. A three millionth motorcycle rolled off the IMZ conveyor.
      As of the end of 2010, the Irbit motorcycle plant went through a bankruptcy procedure more than once, a limited liability company was established on the basis of the enterprise, most of the assets of IMZ were sold and leased.
      Motorcycles brand "Ural" are well known in the world market. There are several Ural owners clubs in Europe and the USA. Several "Urals" owned by the King of Jordan. In 2010, around 800 Uralov was released (in the best years, up to 30 – 50 thousands of cars a year). Now the factory employs 155 people.
      Currently, the production of motorcycles in Russia is almost stopped, due to the enthusiasm of individual production units, about 2-3 thousand motorcycles are produced per year (up to 800 thousand units were produced in the RSFSR).
      5. OJSC SCHETMASH (1948–2009)
      In 2009, one of the largest enterprises of the Central Administrative District, the Kursk-based Accounts Plant, went bankrupt.
      A part of the production facilities of “Schetmash” was bought by the St. Petersburg “Electrosila”, however, the enterprise ceased to exist as an independent production unit. Instead of one large-scale production, the new owners created several small ones, most of the workers of the ex-giant of Soviet electronics were forced to quit.
      6. PAVLOVSKY INSTRUMENTAL FACTORY (1820–2011)
      By the end of the Soviet era, Pavlovsky Instrument Works was one of the largest manufacturers of fitting and assembly tools in the USSR, which are used to equip the automobiles of most of the country's automobile plants. In addition, the plant produced a tool for plumbing when servicing various types of equipment, when working under voltage, a tool for working in everyday life, necessary for each family.
      In February 2011 of the year, PIZ was ruthlessly bankrupt (strictly speaking, the story of the bankruptcy of the plant lasted from 2004 of the year).
      In general, the production of the machine tool industry in Russia is about 2-3 percent of the 1990 level.
      7. MTZ “RUBIN” (1932–2003)
      MTZ Rubin is one of the five largest sponsors of the United Russia party; in 2009, it transferred 47,8 million rubles to the needs of the ruling party.
      Until recently, TVs under the Rubin brand were produced (not in very large quantities) at the enterprises of the South Korean company Rolsen (in Kaliningrad and Voronezh).
      Currently, there are no actual references to Rubies on the official website of Rolsen.
      All of the above gives the right to declare that Rubin, as an enterprise producing television sets (despite the continued existence of a company with the same name), has been completely destroyed.
      1. Combitor
        Combitor 17 January 2014 12: 48
        +1
        More for Alexander Romanov:
        8. LIPETSK TRACTOR PLANT (1943–2009)
        In the fall of 2004, the plant was declared bankrupt. It was replaced by another enterprise, the Lipetsk Tractor, which is part of the Russian machine-building concern Tractor Plants.
        In 2009, the production of chassis for military equipment was separated from the structure of OJSC Lipetsk Tractor into a separate enterprise, Lipetsk Tracked Tractor Plant, which is also part of the Tractor Plants concern.
        Already at the end of 2009, the plant ceased production of agricultural tractors LTZ-60, LTZ-155, as well as street-cleaning machines, loaders, welding units based on tractors, and excavators.
        During 2009 – 2010 machine building and machine assembly shops did not function; only auxiliary metalworking enterprises were partially working. Some non-performing workshops were demolished, more unfinished workshops along 3 September Street were demolished.
        After the acquisition of assets, the Tractor Plants concern, as its main activity, chose to lease the production premises of the plant. Thus, today there are several small private enterprises in the territory of LTZ. For example, blacksmith.
        9. ALTAI TRACTOR PLANT (Rubtsovsk) (1942–2010)
        Altai Tractor Plant until 1991 was one of the largest engineering enterprises in the east of the country.
        Under the Soviet regime, the ATZ produced up to 30 thousands of tractors per year.
        In 2006-2009, the plant went through bankruptcy proceedings. The owner of Altai Tractor Plant Alttrak, Novosibirsk, RATM Holding, has committed to fully repay salary arrears to employees of the enterprise.
        From 2009 to the present, the production of tractors at the Altai plant was not restored.
        "Altrak" is the main enterprise of Rubtsovsk. The plant still counts several thousand residents, the former Alttraka Thermal Power Plant provides two thirds of its citizens with heat and hot water.
        There is information that the owner decided to resume production, reprofiling the tractor plant for the release of new models of welding machines and agricultural equipment.
        Tractor production in Russia, if not completely destroyed, then fell tenfold. In 2009–2010 On average, about 3-4 thousand tractors were produced per year. In Soviet times, the production of tractors of all types in Russia approached 230 thousand units per year.
        10. SHIPBUILDING PLANT “VANGUARD” (Petrozavodsk) (1939–2010)
        In 2010, the plant was declared bankrupt, the buildings sold out for debt.
        1. Combitor
          Combitor 17 January 2014 12: 52
          0
          Continuation of the list for Alexander Romanov:
          11.SARATOVSKY AVIATION PLANT (SAZ) (1931–2010)
          The Saratov Aviation Plant (SAZ) is an aircraft manufacturing company located in Saratov, right up to the actual liquidation of the plant in 2010. Yakovlev Design Bureau aircraft were manufactured here - the legendary fighters of the Great Patriotic War Yak-1 and Yak-3, passenger Yak-40, Yak-42, deck aircraft with vertical take-off and landing (VTOL) Yak-38, planes and helicopters of others KB
          Between 1974 and 1989 The plant produced more than 200 ship-based attack aircraft Yak-38 (the first in the USSR serial VTOL aircraft - a vertical take-off and landing aircraft).
          Since 1990-x plant is in a state of crisis, the number of employees has decreased several times. The last Yak-42 aircraft was delivered to the customer in 2003 year. Then the aircraft production was actually stopped, the plant was mainly engaged in the repair and maintenance of previously produced aircraft, the production of spare parts, and the repair of units.
          In 2009-2010, more than half of the plant’s territory was sold, together with buildings and equipment. As of 2011, there is a pit in this territory for the construction of an IKEA store. Cases, the central entrance of the plant, warehouses were demolished, unique equipment was sold out or scrapped. The remaining polo-wine of the territory of the plant is empty and cut off from communications. Equipment is sold or scrapped. The fuselages of unfinished aircraft are cut and scrapped. In the assembly shop there is one canned Yak-38 aircraft, one Yak-42D (they will never take off), the EKIP device.
          In 2010, the plant practically ceased to exist, the bankruptcy procedure was resumed. From the once-30-thousandth team left about 200 people. The airfield "Saratov-Yuzhny" is closed, its territory is for sale. Practically all the hangars and the runway were dismantled, the guards were almost completely removed, as a result of which almost all factory property was looted. Unique documents, photos and video archive disappear in dilapidated buildings.
          In 2011, the Saratov Aviation Plant would have turned 80 years.
          At the end of the 80 of the last century, more than 100 civil aircraft were produced in the RSFSR annually.
          12. FSUE "OMSK PLANT OF TRANSPORT ENGINEERING" (1896-2009)
          The State Unitary Enterprise "Omsk Transport Engineering Plant" was a specialized tank enterprise with a closed technological cycle of tank production.
          The main activity: production and repair of T-80 type tanks.
          In addition, the company produced civilian products and consumer goods: wheeled tractors with a capacity of 60 and 80 hp. with rear-wheel drive and all-wheel drive and more than 30 types of engineering equipment based on wheeled tractors (excavators with a bucket of 0,28 cubic meters, loaders-excavators PEF-1B, front-end loaders PF-1, snow blowers, trenchers, drilling rigs, etc.) .
          13. CHELYABINSK WATCH FACTORY “LIGHTNING” (1947–2009)
          The Chelyabinsk Watch Factory produced watches of the “Lightning” brand widely known in the USSR, as well as some special products for the army (watches for airplanes and helicopters).
          At the beginning of 2000, the plant was in a situation of bankruptcy for a long time. In 2010, the production of almost all types of watches in Chelyabinsk was discontinued. The legal entity “CHCZ” remaining from the plant is going to start production of denim and clothing.
          14. UGLICH CLOCK FACTORY “THE SEAGUE” (1938–2009)
          15. SECOND MOSCOW CLOCK FACTORY “SLAVA” (1924–2006)
          In 2006, most of the premises of the Slava plant (Moscow, Leningradskoye shosse, the owner were given for the construction of an office center.
          16. CHISTOPOLSK WATCH FACTORY "EAST" (1941–2010)
          1. Combitor
            Combitor 17 January 2014 12: 56
            +1
            Alexander Romanov - ending:
            17. Moscow Machine-Tool Plant named after Sergo Ordzhonikidze (1932–2007)
            18. Machine-tool plant "Sverdlov" (1868–2005)
            In the autumn and winter of 1941, the plant produced shells, then production was discontinued until 1944. In the post-war years, production of metal-cutting machines of our own designs (horizontal boring, coordinate boring, copy-milling, such as the “machining center”, etc.) was launched. In 1962, the Machine Tool Building Association was established on the basis of the plant.
            In 2003, a bankruptcy procedure was initiated against the company.
            In 2005, the Phoenix business center was opened in the administrative building of the bankrupt plant.
            19. STANKOMASH, Chelyabinsk (1935–2009)
            Chelyabinsk "Stankomash" - in the past, the largest machine tool company in the Urals.
            20. Ryazan Machine Tool Plant (1949–2008)
            Ryazan Machine Tool Plant was founded in 1949 year, covers an area of ​​52 hectare.
            In 2008, the factory started a bankruptcy procedure, which has been going on for almost three years now. The property of the plant, including land and buildings, is largely sold out, although the plant still continues to exist and produce products.
            21. CENTROLIT Precision Casting Plant (1963–2009)
            In 1975, a new method of metal casting was developed at the plant - the continuous casting method; a hospital was opened near the plant. In 1978, received the status of cost-effective. Delivered products to many enterprises of the USSR, as well as to Germany, Japan, USA, Italy, Great Britain, Switzerland.
            30 September 2009, the plant stopped the production of iron products and dismissed workers. Production workshops are now used as warehouses for household appliances.
            PS Who, then, is at the head of our state if such enterprises were liquidated, bankrupted, or reprofiled?
            1. VeryHardClown
              VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 13: 17
              0
              I know these facts, but he doesn't care, the main thing for him is to "prove" that you are wrong and his proofs are of the same dubious quality as his behavior. the situation resembles "beads in front of pigs", so support the opinions of those who care about your opinion and, accordingly, skimp on the opinion of those who despise you and your opinion.
        2. Far East
          Far East 17 January 2014 12: 59
          0
          yes sho you prove it! I think he lives on the internet!
          1. Far East
            Far East 17 January 2014 14: 08
            +1
            Well, sho you are minuscators! arguments!
  • Dangerous
    Dangerous 17 January 2014 09: 16
    +2
    Commander, it’s very difficult to argue with such people. you are some convictions, he is different. What is the difference in principle. we are not in Ukraine, where the Western Slavs beat the eastern face and vice versa)
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Combitor
      Combitor 17 January 2014 13: 01
      +1
      Dangerous RU Today, 09:16, scuffle can not be resolved. Yes, and we do not need this. It is necessary to call things and people by their proper names. And to each one deservedly pay his deeds.
    3. Combitor
      Combitor 17 January 2014 14: 06
      +4
      Someone tried, deleting my previous comments, where I gave a small list of enterprises, brought "to the handle" by "effective managers" of the Putin era. These deletions only confirmed that I got to the point. The truth is for the putinoid lackeys - like a bone in the throat.
      1. VeryHardClown
        VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 14: 29
        +3
        This is Alexander Romanov, he is the administrator. threatens me in private, throws warnings supposedly for a mat
      2. Far East
        Far East 17 January 2014 14: 40
        +3
        Quote: Kombitor
        Someone tried deleting my previous comments,

        not you alone! I say the site is bought!
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Yarosvet
    Yarosvet 17 January 2014 14: 14
    0
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    What will you show? Russia's recovery from the poverty of the late 90s?

    278 Criminal Code will arrange?
  • VeryHardClown
    VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 07: 54
    +3
    the article focuses on the post-Yeltsin era. all currently erected factories are just a fiction, a parade in the media for zombies that everything is in order, the country is developing and there is no social explosion on the horizon. according to the change in the Constitution "white and fluffy" will be up to 22 years
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 08: 18
      -1
      Quote: VeryHardClown
      all the factories now built are just fiction

      Yes, well, how come on specifically, where and what plants were erected, since he is so smart and all-knowing.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 08: 51
          0
          Quote: Sacmagon

          With the birth of the new troll us!

          Yes, he will not last long, too much nonsense bears and does not exist. laughing
      2. VeryHardClown
        VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 08: 31
        +4
        you get personal, it's not only indecent - it's disgusting. although you are a pro-Putin Troll, it can be seen on the quotation branch
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Sakmagon
          Sakmagon 17 January 2014 08: 35
          +2
          VeryHardClown - WELL MUCH HEAVY CLOWN!

          This is not a transition to personality, it is literal translation of YOUR nickname!
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 08: 53
            0
            Quote: Sacmagon

            This is not a transition to individuals, this is a literal translation of YOUR nickname!

            I wanted to write it to him, but did not finish off the poor fellow laughing
          2. VeryHardClown
            VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 11: 51
            -1
            thanks! otherwise I didn’t know
  • INC_1254
    INC_1254 17 January 2014 07: 45
    +3
    Damn, it’s not even comprehensible to the mind, I’m just not able to perceive the whole scale of the disaster, and how it was allowed at all.
  • INC_1254
    INC_1254 17 January 2014 07: 48
    +1
    The United States worked well, straightforwardly. Just a crazy situation, I think I’m obscene, but I don’t know how to write.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • VeryHardClown
    VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 07: 51
    +3
    but 200+ billion in Sochi plumped ...
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 08: 11
      -1
      Quote: VeryHardClown
      but 200+ billion in Sochi plumped ...

      But do not we swell in new productions?
      1. VeryHardClown
        VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 08: 23
        +5
        which new ones? for 1 to people? and city-forming for 10-15 to people close? you know, there is arithmetic and the concept of negative quantities. it turns out that our industry is developing steadily in the red
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 08: 29
          0
          Quote: VeryHardClown
          which new ones?

          Yes, hundreds of them have been built in the past, only half a year, and if you do not know this, then you are not interested and you came here just to yell and no more.
          1. Dangerous
            Dangerous 17 January 2014 09: 18
            +3
            Hundreds ?? Will you give links or will you unfoundedly affirm?
          2. The comment was deleted.
      2. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 17 January 2014 11: 06
        +4
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        But do not we swell in new productions?

        RosNano? Stop it, Sash, they open an enterprise for 600 jobs, and on the other they cut 5000. I live in Tolyatti, that VAZ was almost completely taken away, it all comes down to screwdriving foreign cars. What workers receive is not positive, the main profits of Renault-Nissan are taking over the hill. But before the sale of the controlling interest to the French, all tax debts were written off and several billion were raised. Why is it being sold? After all, there was a profitable enterprise. We cook fish soup from goldfish ... crying
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 11: 43
          -1
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          RosNano? Stop,

          I’ve written something about Ros NANO, it’s either you read it on top of someone or you found it on the Internet. I don’t want to write about new military factories, where all those who are now yelling wrote URA. I don’t want to, if you just pay attention when I ask for a link to new productions they don’t give. But they are.
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 17 January 2014 12: 08
            +4
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            I'm talking about Ros NANO wrote something

            This I distort, excuse me.
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            But they are.

            Yes, I do not argue. But it closes and falls apart no less, more. At this rate, stagnation cannot be defeated. We shout, Hurray, that the hand was cured, but about the fact that both legs were cut off, we are silent. request
        2. Normal
          Normal 17 January 2014 16: 06
          +2
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          I live in Tolyatti


          I've been. Once in Bakhilova Polyana, Zolnoe, Solnechnaya Polyana, Shiryaevo people used "Meteora" to get there. Then somewhere in the year 2002-2003 I was in Zhiguli and was struck by the void on the Volga. There is not that Meteors, almost nothing at all. One ship per hour and a half and silence. In the midst of navigation.

          How is it now?
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 17 January 2014 16: 29
            +2
            Quote: Normal
            How is it now?

            Yes, the same way. No passenger traffic. Some poachers blocked the entire Volga with networks. Almost no fish, caught, nature does not have time for Chinese nets. Fish surveillance does not catch mice, in the subject.
            Quote: Normal
            Bahilova Glade, Ash, Solnechnaya Polyana, Shiryaevo

            Beautiful places, Volga from the mountains at a glance.
            1. Normal
              Normal 17 January 2014 21: 48
              +2
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Yes, the same way. No passenger traffic.


              Sad ...

              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Beautiful places, Volga from the mountains at a glance.


              The slide is your favorite point. True, local tourists met at it said that there is a view and cooler, but I did not find, there was no time. And in 2010, they were not allowed to go into the mountains at all - hot summers, land, fires. A pine forest burned near Togliatti. A yellow Italian airplane flew - extinguished.
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 17 January 2014 22: 09
                +2
                Quote: Normal
                A pine forest burned near Togliatti.

                Pine forest, with centuries-old pine trees burned out almost completely. Rumor has it that they set fire to it on purpose, under construction. They promised to plant a new one, but things are still there. hi
      3. JonnyT
        JonnyT 17 January 2014 16: 47
        +4
        Most of the new industries are very tiny compared to the Stalinist giants and they are built by private owners! Most of the government money that goes to support the prom. enterprises and sciences are stolen by members of the clan in power (bloated estimates, contractors). Now the money goes to the defense because Vova and the company are afraid of the fate of the cadaffy and the anger of their own people. And those crumbs that fall from the defense order to related enterprises significantly raise them! Purposefully, no one supports national production; to the tune of state subsidies, there is an active cut by all the same members of the power clan!
        Moreover, we were clearly told that we will continue to sit on oil and gas, no industrialization and naukolizatsiya speech is out of the question.
    2. JIaIIoTb
      JIaIIoTb 17 January 2014 09: 12
      +2
      Quote: VeryHardClown
      but 200+ billion in Sochi plumped ...


      And let them swell. I for what would be in the development of cities vbuhali (as you say), more. Or are you not living in Russia?
    3. brainkiller
      brainkiller 17 January 2014 13: 22
      0
      Quote: VeryHardClown
      but 200 + billion in Sochi plumped.
      you still say that money was stolen from the budget, to complete the picture and so that more pluses from nonsense flew =))
  • major071
    major071 17 January 2014 07: 52
    +15
    Here recently, Dimon-iPhone shouted from the screen that our economy was leaping ahead of the rest and our industry was developing. He’s lying a bastard, only in my area during the years of shit democracy the 1 large factory and two small enterprises (people at 700-800 workers) were closed, and around the 20 enterprises were closed in the city, which was always industrial, but they set up shopping and entertainment centers.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 07: 55
      -2
      Quote: major071
      He’s lying a bastard, only in my area during the years of shit democracy 1 large factory and two small enterprises were closed (a person for 700-800 workers)

      He doesn’t lie, but they build factories, and the factories are new and modern. And if you like criticism so much, then first of all you need to criticize Putin, not Medvedev. They took a dumb fashion to blame all the troubles on Mdvedev, and Putin then who is in our country?
      1. VeryHardClown
        VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 07: 59
        +7
        Medvedev zits-chairman, all the failures and provocative reforms on it, while all the bonuses and imaginary achievements to Putin. circus tent in one word on 1/6 sushi
      2. Sakmagon
        Sakmagon 17 January 2014 08: 20
        +5
        They took a stupid fashion to blame all the troubles on Mdvedev, and then who is Putin in our country?

        Alexander, since the site seems to be "MILITARY ..." then approach the question in a military way.
        Why in part REALLY 2 COMMANDER? Yes, the commander and chief of staff (having ALL the power of the commander), whose orders can only be canceled by the commander himself.
        BECAUSE, that the commander works "upward", brigade commander - to the commander, commander - to the commander of the district troops ... and the 1-th deputy-chief of staff - "down". Such is the army division of labor. And for the work of the government, for what is done INSIDE the country for its INTERNAL development, first of all, the GOVERNMENT and personally Medvedev are responsible! THERE IS HOW IT HEARS IT (namely RESPONSIBILITY) - this is already a question for Putin.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 08: 34
          -3
          Quote: Sacmagon
          Why are there REAL 2 COMMANDERS in the unit?

          Actually, the commander is one, Putin, but he is legally engaged in foreign policy, and internal Medvedev, but again he agrees with Putin and bears it for signature. As for responsibility, I already wrote to Medvedev's article that if he fulfills his promises to open 25 million new modern jobs — let my opinion work. With regards to criticism, it’s up there asking me what plants have been built ????? An article about the constructed facilities will soon be seen, but I do not think that the critic and the screaming that everything is missing appears in that article above.
          1. Sakmagon
            Sakmagon 17 January 2014 08: 40
            +1
            up there, I’m asked what plants were built ?????

            STE another thing ... in one of the previous articles, comradeSch demanded data on "enterprises with high-tech breakthrough technologies with HIGH ADDED VALUE"!!!!!!!!
            Hey, you have a question, for a "C" ... laughing
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 08: 54
              0
              Quote: Sacmagon
              Something else ... in one of the previous articles, tovarSch demanded data on "enterprises with high-tech breakthrough technologies with HIGH ADDED VALUE" !!!!!!!!

              I’ll throw it off in PM, but don’t put it on the website, the article is being prepared for people like this. Then poke it with your nose.
          2. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 17 January 2014 14: 44
            +1
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Actually, the commander is Putin, but he is legally engaged in foreign policy

            Aren't you tired of driving the blizzard? By what law? laughing
        2. military
          military 17 January 2014 12: 50
          +2
          Quote: Sacmagon
          THERE IS HOW IT HEARS IT (namely RESPONSIBILITY) - this is already a question for Putin.

          and HE has already answered ... HE is personally satisfied with the work of the government ... the government has an untapped potential (HE personally "sees" it) ...
          for those who do not understand HIS "message", I will decipher ... "do not *** those brains to me and go all the forest" ...
      3. major071
        major071 17 January 2014 09: 34
        +7
        Alexander Romanov
        He doesn’t lie, but they build factories, and the factories are new and modern. And if you like criticism so much, then first of all you need to criticize Putin, not Medvedev. They took a dumb fashion to blame all the troubles on Mdvedev, and Putin then who is in our country?

        Alexander, I understood Medvedev here only as the person who said this from the screen. And if you criticize in full, then here you can start with Humpback, etc.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 11: 16
          0
          Quote: major071
          , here you can start with Humpback, etc.

          He was only not enough to complete happiness here. He will die, remember, and note.
      4. Heccrbq.3
        Heccrbq.3 17 January 2014 11: 27
        +2
        Well, what factories? A couple of examples? Everything is clear with you. Tsar, just Tsar laughing
      5. military
        military 17 January 2014 12: 39
        +4
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        and then who is Putin in our country?

        how is that "who"? ...
        the one who only "determines the main directions of internal economic development ..." (and further blah-blah-blah) ... the one who initiates a campaign to fight corruption and recalls "not the 37th year" when they catch someone by the hand some of the closest "companions" ... the one who wets terrorists in the toilets, looking for amphorae in the "paddling pools" of children's beaches and in a white robe with a beak at the ready climbs on a hang glider ... the one who stood at the origins of the construction of EdRa and for many years was the "leader" of the party, not being a member of it ... the one who hastened to disown EdRa, but did not consider it correct to register as an independent candidate, but went to the elections as a candidate from this party, hotly "beloved" by the people ...
        THOSE WHO ARE THE CHIEF OF THE STATE, BUT NEVER AND FOR ANYTHING THAT IN THE COUNTRY PERSONALLY RESPONSE ...
        the question is not, "Who is he?", but the question is, "Why do we need him (the president) at all?" ... and is not this link (from which the demand is like water off a duck's back) the most useless and superfluous in the structure of government? hi
        1. alone
          alone 17 January 2014 20: 08
          0
          To criticize and criticize everything is certainly easy and does not require much work. But when criticizing, one must adhere to objectivity. Russia's GDP for 2013 amounted to $ 2,1 trillion. Do you think this whole amount comes only from the sale of natural resources? I don’t think. There is industry in Russia, this is undeniable. But how to raise industry even higher, that's what I have to here to talk.

          )) I’m sure that after my comment questions-reproaches about my country will begin)) Azerbaijan’s GDP is 76 billion dollars. Oil share 45%. According to the state program, in 3-4 years the share will fall by 20%
  • Celmz
    Celmz 17 January 2014 07: 55
    +2
    and on the scale of the Union, if the damage cannot be calculated, the same policies that the terrorists and the elite mercenaries are pursuing have given a green light to destruction and it has coped with the task.
  • Warhead-xnumx
    Warhead-xnumx 17 January 2014 07: 59
    +9
    I want to note that this trend is happening not only with factories, but also with agriculture. I myself am the Far East, and my father and wife come from the Kuban. I remember what it was like in a union, around fields, gardens and farms. In the 90s, all this was almost bent, but in the mid-2000s some farms began to revive and people began to be hired. Now everyone has bought Muscovites and purposefully ruin enterprises
    1. VeryHardClown
      VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 08: 01
      +3
      last year, official statistics flashed that more than 12% of all arable farmland already belongs to agricultural firms with foreign capital
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 08: 22
        -1
        Quote: VeryHardClown
        last year, official statistics flashed that more than 12% of all arable farmland already belongs to agricultural firms with foreign capital

        Again a lie! ..In total, less than 400 million hectares are intended for farmland in our country. Arable land of which is about 115 hectares. But actually a little over three quarters (77 million) are processed. And only about 2% of the arable land is controlled by foreigners.

        Official sources give lower numbers, according to them, agricultural firms of foreign origin own more than half a million hectares (568 thousand). However, only about 20% is correctly registered in ownership, the rest is rent and peasant shares.
        http://delonovosti.ru/news/1678-selhozugodiya-rossii-kupili-inostrancy.html Вы хоть темой то интересуитесь или справки наведите,прежде чем чушь нести.
        1. Yarosvet
          Yarosvet 17 January 2014 15: 12
          +4
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Again a lie!
        2. VeryHardClown
          VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 15: 33
          +2
          I remind you of Putin’s oath to not allow GMOs in the Russian Federation, so ... 3 years have passed and GMOs in our country are not only openly cultivated in those very agricultural companies with foreign capital, but also recommended to other collective farms. Do you understand where this leads? because no one canceled the cross-pollination, this leads to sterility of grain and other sowing crops, and the food industry will sooner or later be placed in conditions of dependence on such corporations as Monsanta and others
          1. military
            military 17 January 2014 16: 11
            +3
            Quote: VeryHardClown
            I remind you of Putin’s oath not to allow GMOs in the Russian Federation

            "- Vasily !!! Don't you believe me? ..."
            (film "Love and Doves")
            laughing
        3. VeryHardClown
          VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 22: 15
          +1
          The hoes from Kushchevka were co-owners of the agricultural company with the participation of foreign capital ... here they are, the faces of those who sold themselves and felt their complete impunity in front of people and the law. so you can wipe your agitation
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 08: 12
      0
      Quote: CU-3
      Now everyone has bought Muscovites and purposefully ruin enterprises

      For example, where and what, if you are talking about the port of Vanino, there are really problems, but the rest is specific, if possible.
      1. Warhead-xnumx
        Warhead-xnumx 17 January 2014 09: 29
        +5
        I wrote about the Krasnodar Territory, Yeisk district, with. Alexandrovka, p. Stepnoy, etc.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 09: 30
          -2
          Quote: CU-3
          I wrote about the Krasnodar Territory, Yeisk district, with. Alexandrovka, p. Stepnoy, etc.

          Clearly, I thought about the DV.
      2. Far East
        Far East 17 January 2014 16: 25
        0
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Vanino port, there are really problems

        Sasha, I live from Vanino 40km. in short, they bought all the Muscovites and don’t want to invest, they’ll wait for PSEZ when we can remove the cream from US with you! and no more about sore!
    3. Vadivak
      Vadivak 17 January 2014 09: 05
      +6
      Quote: CU-3
      I myself am the Far East,

      and you will respond to this, I mean the Chinese?

      Swedish company Black Earth Farming is the first agricultural company to admit buying up agricultural land in Russia. Her interests in our country are represented by the Russian "granddaughter" Agro-invest, which manages more than 300 thousand hectares in the Central Chernozem region. The holding is engaged in crop production and intends to develop dairy farming, pig farming and poultry farming.

      A few other foreign companies also appeared on the market. So, the chairman of the board of directors of Danish Trigon Agri Ulo Adamson admitted that his company controls 100 thousand hectares of agricultural land in the Penza and Samara. According to him, more than 2009 million euros will be invested in the development of these lands by 100. And by 2010, Trigon Agri is going to increase the area of ​​cultivated land in Russia to 150 thousand hectares. Moreover, as Adamson honestly stated, the acquisition of land accounts for the smallest part of the company's investments.

      Lithuanian Agrowill Group AB, according to Remigius Zhvirblis, deputy director general of the company, intends to control up to 0,5 million hectares in Russia in three to four years, since there is an opportunity to acquire large arrays of high quality, and the cost of cultivating the land is lower than in Lithuania. The company is interested in plots of at least 10 thousand hectares, preferably with a ready-made infrastructure for crop production and in the Black Earth region.

      Finally, according to some information, one of the largest owners of Russian lands is the Kazakh company Ivolga-holding, headed by Vasily Rozinov. According to another landowner, Igor Pinkevich, the Oriole in Russia has about 500 thousand hectares.

      However, according to experts, the above firms are just the surface part of the iceberg. It is worth visiting Primorye to make sure: in this region, Chinese have been growing vegetables for wholesale for a long time. No wonder our Primorye, the Chinese already call Hei-Han-She, which in translation, they say, means "Northern Province." In the Sverdlovsk and Irkutsk regions, local authorities also express their willingness to lease abandoned farmland to China for a long-term lease. Rosleskhoz offered the Chinese 1 million hectares of forest in the Tyumen and Tomsk regions for 49 years. And the village of Plotava in the Altai Territory has been called the Wan Yuan for three years now (after the collective farm that once existed here became the Chinese Wan Yuan Plotava LLC).

      China itself owns only 9% of the world's arable land, although the number of Chinese working in agriculture is 40% of the total number of farmers on the planet. It is clear that with this ratio in the Celestial Peasants there is simply nowhere to turn around. The new government program in China encourages farmers to buy arable land abroad: two problems are simultaneously solved - the supply of food is increasing and peasant unemployment is decreasing. Already in 2007, China imported 60% of all soybeans consumed in the country, and now it is actively negotiating with Brazil on the purchase of land for soybean crops. Negotiations are underway in other countries of South America and Africa, where the land is the cheapest. And right next to it, by the way, are the vast expanses of Russian Siberia and the Far East. It is impossible to calculate how many Chinese are already working in these fields. For comparison: in little Kyrgyzstan, without any state program, several tens of thousands of Chinese citizens work in the fields. After Beijing officially approved this expansion, you can be sure that the Chinese will raise the agriculture of the Far East.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 09: 15
        0
        Quote: Vadivak
        Rosleskhoz offered the Chinese 1 million hectares of forest in the Tyumen and Tomsk regions for 49 years.

        Vadim, crap is all, it was already, only places are changing. Khabarovsk, Primorye, but everywhere 1 million hectares. Crap 100% !!!
      2. Warhead-xnumx
        Warhead-xnumx 17 January 2014 09: 38
        +10
        I just live in the Primorsky Territory of Ussuriysk, the Chinese really bought a large amount of land, near the city on which they grow vegetables. Yes, they feed us, but they dirt the earth with pesticides of dubious composition in large quantities.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 09: 55
          -1
          Quote: CU-3

          I just live in the Primorsky Territory of Ussuriysk, the Chinese really bought a large amount of land, near the city on which they grow vegetables

          Yes, I know that, it was about 1 million hectares of wood being leased to the Chinese. Consider half of Primorye. I write crap about that.
  • ZU-23
    ZU-23 17 January 2014 08: 02
    +2
    Haha, I remember how Prokhorov said, Russia needs a good effective manager, indeed the whole brain has been taken away from the loot, obviously the person does not understand the meaning of the government’s work.
    1. Kunar
      Kunar 17 January 2014 17: 15
      +1
      Russia does not need Prokhorov ...
  • Aleksandr222
    Aleksandr222 17 January 2014 08: 02
    0
    Hitler's invasion killed 26,6 million people.
    Hitler's invasion of the USSR caused damage to the national economy and the population of the USSR in the amount of 2 trillion 679 billion rubles in prices at the beginning of 1941 (excluding the cost of the war)
    Was destroyed, burned or destroyed
    Cities - 1710
    Villages and villages more than 70 thousand
    more than 6 million buildings left homeless more than 30 million people.
    industrial enterprises - 31
    railway track over 65 thousand km
    railway stations - 4100
    hospitals and other medical institutions about 40 thousand
    schools, technical schools, universities, research institutes - 84 thousand
    libraries - 43 thousand
    clubs, theaters - 44 thousand
    museums - 427
    Busted and plundered
    collective farms - 98 thousand
    state farms - 1876
    MTS - 2890
    Selected -
    Horses - 7 million heads
    heads of cattle - 17 million
    pigs - 20 million
    heads of sheep and goats - 27 million
    birds - 110 million heads.
    This is all for three years 10 months.

    Now gentlemen, provide a similar register of the activities of effective managers.
    While it is not, such articles are nonsense.
    Never before or after World War II did Russia suffer such damage as during the invasion of Hitler. IMHO.
    1. vladkavkaz
      vladkavkaz 17 January 2014 10: 45
      +3
      Aleksandr222
      It’s not difficult to refute your argument, it’s apparently difficult for you to go around the internet pages so that you can open your own eyes that it’s not so good now?
      http://www.situation.ru/app/rs/books/articles/agro.htm
      Or so
      http://www.rusproject.org/current/current_1/itogi_20_let_simonjan
      Or like this
      http://www.cogita.ru/a.n.-alekseev/kontekst/r.-simonyan.-rossiiskie-reformy-1990
      -h-godov-i-ih-sovremennye-posledstviya.-chast-1
      Or so
      http://s-pravdoy.com/library2/sit-korrupcia/1568-2009-03-23-10-31-23.html
      TOTAL are your speculations that the alleged losses are EASY equal to the cost of a bunch of horseradish on a bad market day and then, already near the garbage can.
      how not to hide the TRUTH, she will always find a way out
      And for Freshening, or vice versa, to expand your knowledge, please, so as not to write sheets of comments with minimal semantic load, because there is no truth in them, read this, where it will be useful for you.
      http://www.docme.ru/doc/186/rossijskie-reformy-v-cifrah-i-faktah
      1. Aleksandr222
        Aleksandr222 17 January 2014 12: 17
        -6
        In agriculture, I can answer like this
        “You don’t remember the cards for bread in 1990-1991, I remember so wrap yourself in your sheet and go and at least wash yourself chtoli in the bathhouse today, once again, Friday.

        For the rest of the sheets, you can add just that.
        The Soviet economy was sick and sick of such ailments as low labor productivity, product quality below the plinth, and the development of new products was not carried out for decades.
        You can recall the TVs of the Record brand or the Emeralds, which are soldering from overheating. And the pursuit of imported goods. There is a lot more to add. So, come to power "reformers" do not come hard landing of the Soviet economy was ensured. And the crisis of the 90s too.

        Now about the truth. The results of Hitler’s activities in the USSR are documented and presented in the form of a charge at the Nuremberg Tribunal.
        Read for a general uplift of culture, so to speak.
        1. vladkavkaz
          vladkavkaz 17 January 2014 17: 43
          +4
          Alexander222 RU
          You feel the old propagandist, from the time of the hunchback building, acting according to Yakovlev’s recipes, who, in turn, took more than one of Goebbels’s tips — lie more often, lie more, sometimes tell the truth, but always dilute it with a lie.
          You have it wonderfully - one passage with coupons-on which you have all the memories tied, they already say that you are talking nonsense, for all this confusion with coupons, the notorious deficit, was thought, carried out and done, in order to like you, they assured themselves and others that supposedly socialism is "incurably" sick, while the warehouses, factories-STOCKED were both products and the same tobacco.
          Lie something else.
          Just enough to lie about the quality of the technology - we took this technology with pleasure and abroad - you are a LIAR, professionally lying, otherwise how will you explain that with Turkey, with which the Union did not have an agreement on trade, 100000 TVs and 5oooo refrigerators in those 90 years turned out, so there was a demand for them, even in Turkey, a NATO member country, who has access to all kinds of panasonic and sleepyheads? Knowledgeable people about the state of the Union's economy -DICTIONAL- "The Union suffered from a slight runny nose, but the so-called" doctors "cut it off head-surnames of these "doctors to name, or from shame you do not remember them point-blank?
          In general, the LIAR you are primary, though stupid and inept.
  • Sakmagon
    Sakmagon 17 January 2014 08: 07
    +2
    Everything seems to be true, everything seems to be right ...
    But you start to get a grasp ...

    Rubin TVs were generally out of competition. Of course, they did not reach the level of Sony or Philips, but often the Rubin TVs worked for more than a dozen years ...

    ... if they didn’t burn and explode during the first year! I remember mourn ...
    IN THE MORNING YOU ARE GOOD!
    (IF YOU DON'T DIE AT NIGHT ...)
    As for the repair of Pacific Fleet ships, everything is not so sad: and for them there is some kind of nook, all the more so since there are not so many ships of these retirement age left

    He praised how he cheated ...
    HERE IS INTERESTING, DOES THE AUTHOR HAVE CHILDREN?
    If there is - I present the picture:

    In the morning at the table Author Alexander Plekhanov with his family - his wife speaks: "Children, do you remember that your dad bought a cake for your holiday? And today there is no cake, which means it is not a holiday ..." Mother-in-law: "But it is winter outside, that's why dad won't bring you apples and grapes today either ... ". Children (choking on tears) "Yes, we understand ... THIS IS WHAT OUR DAD IS ..."
    I KNOW! YOUR SUGGESTIONS?
    Or is the author again from the series "What conclusions are there - finished from the process itself"?
    "Are you in a good mood in the morning? Are you confident in yourself and in your abilities? Do you love your country, are you proud of its people?" bully Go to the site MILITARY REVIEW! "
    1. Aleksandr222
      Aleksandr222 17 January 2014 12: 49
      +3
      I remember Rubin my second color TV, he confused colors. And the first one was shililis, that on the third day it began to buzz like a steaming buzzer. And the third Soviet central heating station Chaika honestly worked for 3 months and caught fire in a bright flame. After that, I started to buy these heavy chests at a price of 700-800 rubles (five of my then salaries. Translated to the current one hundred thousand turn out) I bought a black and white record. In the 90s, a Japanese Sharp bought it with his hands. He worked for another 10 years, at the turn of the century, he broke down. I dismantled it and on the label from the kinescope I found out the date of manufacture 79 years.
      1. Kunar
        Kunar 17 January 2014 17: 19
        +1
        And my "Rainbow-704" arr 1977 was changed to Samsung in 1996. Still at the dacha. It works (decoder and no problems)) You were just out of luck ....
  • VeryHardClown
    VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 08: 07
    +1
    Quote: afire
    guys, yes sad, yes disgusting and disgusting, but enough about that.
    We need to live on, to prepare new enterprises in spite of those creatures, to leave the groundwork for the children, but what to do, we finished off the cattle, now somehow we need to get out and build.
    and plaintive moans are not our method, they are only angry, they do not affect the construction and development

    where do you come from? "mournful groans are not our method" - look around, those who built communism are now rummaging through the trash heaps and eking out a miserable existence, cannot pay for electricity and utility bills, they built all those factories, and you here are trying to fool your brains using propaganda stamps not наш method, plaintive groans. "just an encouraging speech from the dynamo team
    1. Kyrgyz
      Kyrgyz 17 January 2014 08: 25
      0
      Quote: VeryHardClown
      where do you come from? "mournful groans are not our method" - look around, those who built communism are now rummaging through the trash heaps and eking out a miserable existence, cannot pay for electricity and utility bills, they built all those factories, and you are here trying to fool your brains using propaganda stamps "cattle, not our method, plaintive groans. " just an encouraging speech from the dynamo team

      Why did the builders allow the Yeltsin coup to take place? stupefied? are you tired? scared? or expected benefits? or disappointed?
      Not all builders are in the garbage dumps; always someone is in the garbage dump as a result of changes.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 08: 35
        -1
        Quote: Kyrgyz

        Why did the builders allow the Yeltsin coup to take place? stupefied? are you tired? scared? or expected benefits? or disappointed?

        No, they threw out school tickets and announced that they are now liberals. And they did not lie *****.
        1. VeryHardClown
          VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 12: 08
          +1
          you know, my father's party card is still among the memorable documents, although he kept it for himself in memory of the era, and not of those who replaced these new "communists". it was so intimate for him that he did not even talk to me about his convictions and disappointments. but the fact that it was hard for him - I saw it
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Egen
            Egen 17 January 2014 13: 09
            +1
            Quote: VeryHardClown
            My father’s party card is still among my memorial documents.

            hi
            also a party card of the father-in-law and the Order of Lenin and the Red Banner of Labor, until his death he considered himself a Communist in a good understanding of the word and was very worried about how everything turned upside down :(
        2. Kunar
          Kunar 17 January 2014 17: 23
          +1
          I do not agree only in terminology. Not liberals, but liberals .. (hereinafter, pip to half-sheet)
      2. VeryHardClown
        VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 08: 48
        -3
        suitcase train station home
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 08: 57
          +2
          Quote: VeryHardClown
          suitcase train station home

          What are you already flying away?
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 08: 26
      +1
      Quote: VeryHardClown
      those who built communism are now rummaging around

      Oh well, if these are the homeless people who ran through the bins built communism, then I am not surprised that the USSR was gone. This is sarcasm, but nevertheless specifically give, where are the builders of communism rummaging through the brooms?
      Quote: VeryHardClown
      and you here are trying to fool your brains using the stamps of the agitprom "

      Mr. Zyuganov, or who are you there, and you’ll specifically cite facts or links, or will you yell about how everything is lost?
      1. VeryHardClown
        VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 09: 00
        0
        I think that with you good lampshades would come out if you use Gozman's vocabulary, you are a fat Troll
        1. JIaIIoTb
          JIaIIoTb 17 January 2014 09: 23
          +1
          You have some kind of soul problem. You are not a troll ... You are sick.
          1. VeryHardClown
            VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 09: 58
            0
            I read comments of some types and my soul really hurts. the level of corruption and corruption of society seems to have reached an apotheosis, but there is no depth to this fall into the abyss of immorality
            1. JIaIIoTb
              JIaIIoTb 17 January 2014 09: 59
              +2
              Quote: VeryHardClown
              I read comments of some types and my soul really hurts. the level of corruption and corruption of society seems to have reached an apotheosis, but there is no depth to this fall into the abyss of immorality


              What you wrote above is immoral.
              1. VeryHardClown
                VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 10: 16
                +2
                I used Gozman’s stamp which, as a Semitic, mentioned lamp shades that he would certainly have turned to if they hadn’t been for the same deadmen who opposed SS soldiers. this is not immoral, I understand the nature of the statements of the person who comments in defiance of me and I understand that he has the same problems as Leonid Gozman, the question of self-identification of a person, for me personally, such doubts do not exist.
                1. Alexander Romanov
                  Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 11: 44
                  0
                  Quote: VeryHardClown
                  I used Gozman's stamp to

                  That's noticeable
      2. vladkavkaz
        vladkavkaz 17 January 2014 10: 28
        +4
        Alexander Romanov
        I wonder why such a direct wild rejection of the CIPFG and Zyuganov?

        Really, he managed to steal novels in the country so much that he knows for sure that Zyuganov came to power, and even he, with his soft very soft reaction to the activities of all kinds of thieves, it doesn’t matter under what flags he will be forced to be big thieves, as well as the whole public itching on Ineta, newspapers and TV, DELETE AND SEND TO PLACES FAMILIAR, BUT NOT TOO CONVENIENT FOR LIFE.

        AND AFTER SUCH APPROVAL LETTERED TO HIMSELF ROOMAN, DOES HE DARE TO SAY THAT HE IS NOT A TROLL-PROPAGANDIST THAT DOES THERE EXIST NOW? (and there is a heavy machine)?

        In fact, it’s time for Romanov to know — in a society in which there is no criticism, no opposition from a healthy opposition — or decay or degeneration, into something that will not bring any good to the country.

        It would be worth knowing that all kinds of BAT, in mink coats and other tinsel, barking something, supposedly on power, is the same, EXTREME form, this power, which will gobble up its imaginary opponents and will bring down the country with it.

        But in the Communist Party and Zyuganov, this, attributed to him all kinds of paid agitators, is not mentioned.
        At least sometimes, they listened to their idol PUTIN, who plainly said, in Russian politics, the second figure is Zyuganov, and not all kinds of clowns like Zhirinovsky-Mironov and other marsh alkonauts.
        1. VeryHardClown
          VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 11: 08
          +1
          that Zyuganov, that Putin, that Oval - all are smeared with one myrrh, the only right decision is to smear with green ...
          1. vladkavkaz
            vladkavkaz 17 January 2014 11: 48
            0
            VeryHardClown (1) SU
            Do not confuse sour with green and square with a flat.
            1. VeryHardClown
              VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 12: 05
              +1
              now there is such borscht that anyone who was or tried to be a cook "earned" his right to either green paint or a telegraph pole. purely my opinion
              1. vladkavkaz
                vladkavkaz 17 January 2014 16: 59
                +3
                VeryHardClown
                Some yes, they really deserve both a cross from green and a pole from aspen.
                That’s why such a howl costs, it’s worth only at least something positive to say about the Union, or, in the opinion of the mummies, both liberal and erovish
                , about Stalin, according to which these bormotologists always use only black color and increased pus secretion ..
                1. VeryHardClown
                  VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 21: 42
                  +1
                  I believe that the majority, because I do not believe in the thesis "for they do not know what they are doing," starting from the judiciary, which is the main filter for the supply of the elite at the regional and regional levels, as well as a regulatory institution for controlling management policies, and ending with municipal bureaucrats who just "in the subject" .. far from some
          2. Kunar
            Kunar 17 January 2014 17: 27
            +1
            If the ass is in vain. And if the forehead, so I’ll get there .... laughing
        2. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 11: 49
          -2
          Quote: vladkavkaz
          I wonder why such a direct wild rejection of the CIPFG and Zyuganov?

          But didn’t he assert and continue to assert that nothing new has been built?
          Quote: vladkavkaz
          Actually, it’s time for Romanov to know, in a society in which there is no criticism,

          I know this, but you should know how criticism differs from stupidity. If people don’t want to notice the facts of building hundreds of enterprises, they don’t want to do this, but ask for links. After receiving the links, some say thanks, others say nothing, but stupidly say it’s a lie.
          Quote: vladkavkaz
          At least sometimes, they listened to their idol PUTIN,

          He is not my idol!
          1. VeryHardClown
            VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 13: 05
            +2
            Quote: Alexander Romanov

            He is not my idol!

            your idol is money, you are corrupt, mercantile and dubious, I made just such a conclusion about you. you are comfortable with its mode, so you protect the status quo
          2. vladkavkaz
            vladkavkaz 17 January 2014 17: 03
            +1
            Alexander Romanov (2)
            “Didn't he assert and continue to assert that nothing new has been built?” - NO DID NOT APPROVE.
            "PUTIN-He's not my idol!" - Your logic is strange. Then who is your idol-Zhirik or the main steam locomotive whistle of all Russia? Or who? Do not be lazy to indicate your position on this issue.
            And finally, "I know that, but you should know how criticism differs from stupidity" THEN why are you demonstrating stupidity under the label of "opinions"?
  • Orik
    Orik 17 January 2014 08: 08
    +1
    The post-Yeltsin years, when the destruction of Russian plants and factories became widespread, became especially destructive for the Russian economy.

    So it is, after the 1998 crisis, due to the cheap ruble, the industry revived, the Soviet potential made it possible to sharply increase domestic production, but the fat 00s ... finished it off. If you look at employment, then:
    Indicative changes over the past ten years in the structure of employment. In 2000 most of all Russians were employed in the manufacturing sector, and agriculture was in second place. In 2010, the first line is already occupied by the direction of trade and repair. By the share of traders and repairmen, Russia surpassed any of the Western countries. In addition to manufacturing and agriculture, other sectors of material production have also reduced their importance: mining; production and distribution of electricity, gas and water; education. Along with the article of trade and repair, the share in the structure of employment increased: financial activity; real estate operations, rental and services; construction; hotels and restaurants; transport and communications; government controlled; the provision of communal, social and personal services.
  • bashmak
    bashmak 17 January 2014 08: 13
    +7
    Not only enterprises but also entire industrial regions are collapsing. I am from Kuzbass. They close mines and open pits. Coal is energy, metallurgy. The largest metallurgical production in the country, ZAPSIB, KMK, are practically collapsed! This cannot happen without the knowledge of the government !!!
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 08: 27
      -2
      Quote: bashmak
      ! This cannot happen without the knowledge of the government !!!

      Sorry, but who is the owner (owner) of your mines?
    2. Bigriver
      Bigriver 17 January 2014 09: 18
      +4
      Quote: bashmak
      ... The largest metallurgical production in the country ZAPSIB, KMK actually collapsed! This can not happen without the knowledge of the government !!!

      Evraz Group closed a steel plant in America in the fall. Who's to blame? US Congress and Obama?
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 09: 56
        0
        Quote: BigRiver
        Who is to blame there? US Congress and Obama?

        Putin, who else laughing
      2. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 17 January 2014 11: 43
        +4
        Quote: BigRiver
        Who is to blame there? US Congress and Obama?

        If you argue from the point of view of the capitalist, then of course not. Only business, nothing personal. And if from the point of view of the people, it is they who are to blame, since they allowed a foreign company to deprive US citizens of work. hi
        1. Bigriver
          Bigriver 17 January 2014 11: 55
          0
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          ... If you argue from the point of view of the capitalist, then of course not. Only business, nothing personal. And if from the point of view of the people, it is they who are to blame, once allowed a foreign company to deprive US citizens of work. hi

          I am interested in a long-range sight!
          I have a small business myself. Here, I'm trying on ... Suddenly I have to fire someone, cut: //
          So, from the point of view of the common people, you say Putin will be to blame?
          It has become easier for me wassat
          hi
        2. VeryHardClown
          VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 11: 59
          +5
          when they seek profit in everything, not optimization — to wait for trouble, the state’s task is to protect its citizens, the business’s task is to squeeze all the juices out of the workforce for the sake of fat. when the state merges with business, the functions of the state recede into the background, since the humanitarian-implant task of state power becomes a fiction in front of obligations given to business.
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    6. Egen
      Egen 17 January 2014 12: 19
      +2
      Quote: bashmak
      I am from Kuzbass

      Alexander, as I understand it, you are from the Forge, that is, Stalin’s :)
      Quote: bashmak
      Close mines, cuts

      ... not exactly. New ones open. And in our north - Vladimirovskaya, Kostroma, and in the south - Zhernovsky, etc. Prokop was closed, yes :( But did Mazikin’s appearance watch on Shakhtar’s day? What did he say? They began to get more coal than during the USSR, this is +. But he also said - and few people noticed - that the number of miners decreased by 3 times , this is due to intensification ... and exploitation ... This is the main fact!
      If we look further, then really, if you are an Alexander miner, you may have visited the mines of Europe and Australia, our miners are the most privileged in the world - by the number of days of rest and shift hours underground - comparing with those foreign enterprises where I was. Well, salary is another question :)

      "ZAPSIB, KMK have actually collapsed" - for a long time and for a long time, while: (But there are still aluminum, ferroalloy and most importantly Universal :))
      Well, why are you forgetting about the North, but what about the Yurmash defense industry, as well as other machines and our Tereshkovskaya troika Khimvolokno, KShT and ... "lining"? :) :(
  • sawmill
    sawmill 17 January 2014 08: 18
    +5
    There are a lot of such revealing articles in which authors compete in who will more clearly draw a picture of the disaster. And as a rule, in such articles there is not a word about the reasons for what happened. Worse they are Hitler or better, let's compare with Mom or Bonopart.
    What is the reason that the state created by Lenin-Stalin went astray? Why was the economic model unsuccessful?
    Go ahead .
    Why did attempts to implement a liberal economic model lead to a degeneration of the economy into an oil pipe?

    How did it happen that one Soviet INDUSTRIAL potential was destroyed and the new liberal one does not think to be created? Skolkovsky sawed the project, I think, it doesn’t even look like an attempt at such a creation.

    Who would answer these questions?

    I hope that the country is on the verge of change, they have matured, even overripe.
    But what will be the changes and what will be the result depends on a competent understanding of the past. And in the article there is only a statement of known facts, and even adorned with frank inaccuracies.

    For example:
    The ships that fought heroically in the Battle of Tsushima at Dalzavod were not serviced, they never made it to it, the squadron left the Baltic and never made it to the Pacific ports, the long voyage ended in almost complete destruction of the entire squadron. "
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 08: 37
      -6
      Quote: sawmill
      How did it happen that one Soviet INDUSTRIAL potential was destroyed and the new liberal one does not think to be created? Skolkovsky sawed the project, I think, it doesn’t even look like an attempt at such a creation.

      I’m not going to touch on Skolkovo, but the rest is just a minus for a lie. hi
      1. sawmill
        sawmill 18 January 2014 17: 53
        +1
        The accusation of lies is a serious thing.
        And it requires facts.
        What and where did I lie?
        Is there no more Soviet industry?
        Or is that a new industry has not been created?
        Or is it that under the leadership of your esteemed Putin, the economy has degenerated into an oil pipe for a handful of courtiers?

        Your love for Tsar Vladimir is not a reason to deny the obvious things.
  • Kyrgyz
    Kyrgyz 17 January 2014 08: 20
    -7
    The author distorts and openly lies, firstly, the term "effective managers" is the period of Putin's rule, the Yeltsin period is the "young reformers", The author believes that under Putin the damage is like under Hitler?
    You can hate both Gorbachev and Yeltsin for a lot and this will be fair; to say that the damage to the national economy of the RSFSR is higher than in the Great Patriotic War in either the gold equivalent or in human resources would be untrue. But preserving the USSR with its feudal estate in the late 80s was no longer possible, because it was abolished with the tacit consent of the majority of citizens, many mistakes, now looking into the past it is easy to poke mistakes and blaming someone, it will be more correct to draw conclusions and move on .
    1. calocha
      calocha 17 January 2014 09: 18
      +11
      Don't "whistle" !!! It was possible to save the USSR and it IS NECESSARY! The consent of the citizens you say, well, well, who explained what to the Citizens ?! simple - they made us fall for the beautiful life of the West, they fooled you and me !!! Our steam locomotive rushing towards LIGHT turned into darkness. The sooner we make an analysis of that time, we will correct it, the easier it will be for us and our children! Capitalism is bent, we need to look for a new model or to follow the Soviet "corrected" model. The Chinese are coming, so it takes everyone's breath!
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Kyrgyz
        Kyrgyz 17 January 2014 09: 32
        -4
        Quote: calocha
        And who explained to the citizens?!?!

        Did citizens need to explain that shooting a white house is bad? or what the signatories of the Bialowieza agreements seem to give too much? How many words do people need to understand? Maybe when tearing off cowards and bending over with cancer, they will first explain what and where they will stick?
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 17 January 2014 11: 51
          +4
          Quote: Kyrgyz
          Maybe when tearing off cowards and bending over with cancer, they will first explain what and where they will stick?

          You’re talking nonsense. During the union, the bulk of the people believed what was said from the high stands. And we were told that everything will be fine, and so it is necessary. Like tolerate a little bit. Everything went from above, and we practically could not influence it. hi
          1. military
            military 17 January 2014 13: 13
            +3
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            And we were told that everything will be fine, and so it is necessary. Like tolerate a little bit. Everything went from above, and we practically could not influence it.

            has something changed since then? ...
      3. Bigriver
        Bigriver 17 January 2014 10: 30
        -2
        Quote: calocha
        ... The conclusions are simple - forced to peck at beautiful life of the West, fooled us with you !!! Our steam engine rushing to LIGHT turned into the darkness ....

        "Beautiful life" and "Bright future" - antitheses?
        "Forced, fooled" ... Kindergarten.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 17 January 2014 09: 42
      +6
      Quote: Kyrgyz
      The author distorts and openly lies, firstly, the term "effective managers" is the period of Putin's rule, the Yeltsin period is the "young reformers", The author believes that under Putin the damage is like under Hitler?

      The author does not lie, you are mistaken.
      Effective managers are young reformers.
      Under Yeltsin, it was closed as unprofitable, and the factories, mines, factories that worked for the domestic market, and not for export, were plundered to the ground.
      The entire economy was sharpened to serve the needs of the West, not Russia. Earning convertible currency was the main goal of "effective managers" and prostitutes.
      They earned currency at the cost of ruining their economy, and what of this? The current currency is not worth the paper on which the dollars are printed, at any time it can depreciate to zero.
      1. Kyrgyz
        Kyrgyz 17 January 2014 10: 05
        -3
        Quote: Corsair5912
        Under Yeltsin, it was closed as unprofitable, and the factories, mines, factories that worked for the domestic market, and not for export, were plundered to the ground.

        Here, too, one must understand that it was not that they closed but closed, nobody wanted to take the product inside and the company whose product is not needed is difficult to close
        Quote: Corsair5912
        The entire economy was sharpened to serve the needs of the West, not Russia. Earning convertible currency was the main goal of "effective managers" and prostitutes.

        The enterprises were faced with competition, and honestly lost it, because you won’t argue that the products of the USSR plants for the domestic market were acceptable, why on earth should people buy bullshit and the director of the factory producing bullshit should surround themselves with comfort (by the way, in the USSR 85-92 )
        Quote: Corsair5912
        They earned currency at the cost of ruining their economy, and what of this? The current currency is not worth the paper on which the dollars are printed, at any time it can depreciate to zero.

        The result of the desire of the peoples of the USSR with outstretched friendship for the better, they thought they would feed and ate them
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Corsair5912
          Corsair5912 17 January 2014 12: 05
          +3
          Quote: Kyrgyz
          Here, too, one must understand that it was not that they closed but closed, nobody wanted to take the product inside and the company whose product is not needed is difficult to close

          You are poorly versed in economics and production. There were no unnecessary goods, any goods always found their buyer, if not over the hill, then in their own country. Moreover, the company could easily change the range and improve the quality
          Quote: Kyrgyz
          The enterprises were faced with competition, and honestly lost it, because you won’t argue that the products of the USSR plants for the domestic market were acceptable, why on earth should people buy bullshit and the director of the factory producing bullshit should surround themselves with comfort (by the way, in the USSR 85-92 )

          Competition is different, equal and unequal. All countries, even the most developed, protect their domestic market and their producers from unequal competition, this is necessary to maintain the sovereignty and living standards of their people.
          Nobody produced any bullshit, Soviet goods were quite in demand and superior in quality to imported ones, second only to them in design and behind in technology.
          You confuse shadow workers with factory directors. Gorbachev allowed the creation of private enterprises in Soviet factories. On state-owned equipment, from private materials, private traders, all kinds of partnerships and cooperatives, produced products that they sold, as their own, at bargain prices. Not always the directors have had a lot of it.
          1. Kyrgyz
            Kyrgyz 17 January 2014 13: 20
            -3
            Quote: Corsair5912
            You are poorly versed in economics and production. There were no unnecessary goods, any goods always found their buyer, if not over the hill, then in their own country.

            Consumer goods were anecdotal in quality and capabilities, and even arguing ridiculously on this topic, some of the goods were not produced electronics or light industry at all, or were produced in small quantities, which allowed the price to skyrocket using the deficit - remember that word? or wasn’t it?
            Quote: Corsair5912
            Moreover, the company could easily change the range and improve the quality

            It could have been without problems, but it couldn’t have been without investments in equipment and staff, the engineering staff was consumed, the engineers had lost the habit of thinking ahead, and time was needed even with money, the technological lag in microelectronics and light industry could be enormous for a long time.
            I do not condone either Gorbachev or Yeltsin, I can’t look at inventing legends about the USSR, I lived there, and this country had pluses, but not where they are invented, there were no advantages in producing pluses
            Quote: Corsair5912
            Gorbachev allowed the creation of private enterprises in Soviet factories. On state-owned equipment from state materials, private traders, all kinds of partnerships and cooperatives, produced products that they sold, as their own, at negotiated prices. Not always the directors have had a lot of it.

            Because the losses from production were unthinkable, unit costs. products are enormous due to the backwardness of the machine park and the excess of manpower, cooperation was already hysteria from impotence, and impotence from incompetence, and from the common herd of rams "specialists" gave birth to Gaidar
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    5. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 17 January 2014 10: 05
      +8
      Quote: Kyrgyz
      But it was already impossible to save the USSR with its estate-feudal system at the end of the 80x, because it was abolished with the tacit consent of most citizens, many mistakes, now looking into the past it’s easy to poke mistakes and blame someone, it will be more correct to draw conclusions and move on. .

      There was no class-feudal system in the USSR. Where did you get such information? In the USSR, everyone could make a career and get to the post of Secretary General, if desired.
      My father and my childhood friend had tractor drivers on the same collective farm. In 1970, we finished school, I went to university, and my friend joined the army. After the army, he, on a Komsomol trip, went to the factory. First he became the Komsomol secretary of the workshop, then the factory. He joined the Communist Party, offered a job in the city committee, and then in the regional committee. Could easily get to the Central Committee of the CPSU, if not for perestroika.
      The USSR was partitioned secretly, according to the thieves, there was no tacit agreement, the people were confronted with a fact. Benya Reltsin screamed that he would lie on the rails, if the people's standard of living fell, the people believed. The standard of living declined 2,5 times, but it did not fall into Pascud.
      1. VeryHardClown
        VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 10: 12
        +4
        everything is true, but it is profitable for someone to support the version of the "grin of Bolshevism"
        1. dmb
          dmb 17 January 2014 11: 07
          +10
          Why are you surprised? The most respectable "Kirghiz" will never share your views. You quite rightly remarked "that the builders of communism ended up in the trash heaps." But not everyone built communism. So your opponent (judging by his comments) did not want to build communism, but preferred to snatch a part of what we all built. Therefore, he is naturally satisfied with the current state of society. I simply do not see any other reasons to criticize the Soviet regime and praise the current one. But the reasons for the attitude of the people to its fall are really interesting. I think that the reason was the confidence instilled in this power in the future. After all, all citizens who cried about democracy naively believed that free housing, penny housing and communal services and the ability to fearlessly go out into the street in the evening would remain, and the amount of sausage in the store and the free sale of porn would appear. Oh, and you can also drink fired whiskey in Antalya.
          1. VeryHardClown
            VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 11: 23
            +2
            I am loyal to your views on the current reality, but I have my own views and they are known only to me. Russia has always been a large and multinational country, it was a conglomerate capable of absorbing centuries-old hostile relations and hostility regarding interethnic relations, whether by force, by persuasion, but it all came down to assimilation and equality. Now the situation is different, too many nationalist centers are trying to unleash the centrifugal force of Nazism, both Russian and ethnic (Middle Asia, the Caucasus, Ukraine, the Baltic States) and you do not stand in this line, those who are rocking the boat.
          2. Kyrgyz
            Kyrgyz 17 January 2014 13: 43
            -3
            Quote: dmb
            Why are you surprised? The most respectable "Kirghiz" will never share your views. You quite rightly remarked "that the builders of communism ended up in the trash heaps." But not everyone built communism. So your opponent (judging by his comments) did not want to build communism, but preferred to snatch a part of what we all built. Therefore, he is naturally satisfied with the current state of society. I simply do not see any other reasons to criticize the Soviet regime and praise the current one. But the reasons for the attitude of the people to its fall are really interesting. I think that the reason was the confidence instilled in this power in the future. After all, all citizens who cried about democracy naively believed that free housing, penny housing and communal services and the ability to fearlessly go out into the street in the evening would remain, and the amount of sausage in the store and the free sale of porn would appear. Oh, and you can also drink fired whiskey in Antalya.

            Yes, I am against building anything for everyone at my own expense, I follow the interests of a single Russia, which wasn’t in the USSR 70-90, I criticize the power of the USSR for arrogance and incompetence, I praise the current government for overcoming the consequences of its predecessor, but I criticize for slowing down although I understand what they are caused by.
            I’m an entrepreneur, but I have never privatized anything (except for an apartment), but I think that at first he is to blame for the person and then others, and I completely agree that the fact that did not kill us made us stronger, or smarter that in general the same thing
            1. dmb
              dmb 17 January 2014 14: 35
              +5
              Well, suppose you are not building Russia today. You build your own "business", and you do it at the expense of others. There are a lot of entrepreneurs on the site, they, I hope, will explain to you how long your business has existed, you pay all taxes, and without giving bribes to firemen, SES officers, tax officers, Obepniks, prosecutors, judges .... Naturally, you cover your "costs" from our pocket. So don't hide behind Russia. The fact that you, criticizing the USSR, piled twenty years in a heap, is also not in your favor, because the USSR is Russia, and those who think differently are supporters of Yeltsin, who is criticized by them. Comparing the leadership of the USSR and the current one by swagger and competence is simply ridiculous. Although, if there is such a desire, I will read with curiosity what our current "modest guys" and their children are different for the better. It is difficult to comment on your last phrase; if this is a slogan, then I would like to know to what and whom is he calling?
              1. Kyrgyz
                Kyrgyz 17 January 2014 18: 23
                0
                Quote: dmb
                Well, suppose you are not building Russia today. You build your own "business"

                I am not asking for awards and honor, but all the same I am already paying sensitive taxes and began to wonder where this is going. And Russia, let's say, consists of many personal "businesses" of families of success and other problems of one and a half hundred million
                Quote: dmb
                and do it at the expense of the rest.

                what an incomprehensible phrase, the rest is who? and what am I taking from them? but I'm not ashamed
                Quote: dmb
                There are a lot of entrepreneurs on the site, I hope they will explain to you how long your business lasted, you pay all taxes, and without giving bribes to firefighters, SES officers, tax officials, Obepniks, prosecutors, judges

                the problem is not to pay or not to pay, the problem is more that one pays and the other does not receive a non-market advantage, the state cannot ensure equality before the law and this is the main problem, you exaggerate the problem of the departments you listed, everything is much simpler and calmer with us and the main problem is competition
                Quote: dmb
                Naturally, you cover your "costs" from our pocket. So do not hide behind Russia.

                I don’t really understand what you mean, but the price of civilian consumption products in the bulk is dictated by the market to a greater extent and costs to a lesser extent, hide behind Russia I don’t know yet how
                Quote: dmb
                The fact that you, criticizing the USSR, have been dumped in a pile of twenty years, is also not in your favor, for the USSR is Russia, and those who think differently are supporters of Yeltsin criticized by them.

                I agree that the USSR is Russia I do not agree that Russia should spend resources on all the troubles away from the borders
                Quote: dmb
                Comparing the leadership of the USSR and the current one by swagger and competence is simply ridiculous. Although, if there is such a desire, I will read with curiosity what our current "modest guys" and their children are different for the better.

                the elites of the USSR have exhausted the resource of trust and, as a consequence, the current opportunities are still not available, we’ll see until 2018, if they don’t leave the same, only they have a less educated people
                Quote: dmb
                It’s difficult to comment on your last phrase; if this is a slogan, then I would like to know what and who is he calling for?

                Do not invent fairy tales that you like to believe in, and do not blame others before you assess how much you are to blame
                1. 31231
                  31231 17 January 2014 18: 42
                  +2
                  the problem is not to pay or not to pay, the problem is that one pays and the other does not receive a non-market advantage, the state cannot ensure equality before the law and this is the main problem, you exaggerate the problem of the departments you listed in Novosibirsk everything is much simpler and calmer and the main problem competition

                  I absolutely agree with you. People are either far from managing enterprises or entrepreneurship, who chat without thinking, or live in Chita, where there are still plenty of atavisms of the 90s.
                  Our office now does not shine the entire salary, but this is not the tax fault, but the competitors who bring down prices below the baseboard. Moreover, many competitors are not so much working as just knocking down prices.
                  1. sawmill
                    sawmill 17 January 2014 23: 43
                    0
                    Let's imagine that everyone pays taxes, and in general the rules of the game are the same for all entrepreneurs.
                    Do you think there will be economic growth?
                    And it seems to me that there will be an even greater displacement of our products from the market by Chinese and even European goods.
                    Will we raise duties?
                    We have already higher prices for consumer goods than the world, still raise.?
                    Ultimately, in general, we will bring everything and take away oil.
                    In my opinion, the problem is that the economy is strangled by taxes and the collected taxes will fill the budget that is being stolen.
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      3. Kyrgyz
        Kyrgyz 17 January 2014 13: 31
        +1
        Quote: Corsair5912
        There was no class-feudal system in the USSR. Where did you get such information? In the USSR, everyone could make a career and get to the post of Secretary General, if desired.

        Social elevators began to collapse under Brezhnev by the year 88, were they completely destroyed, do you think that special service shops are acceptable when declaring socialism and equality?
        The construction of communism stopped with the death of Stalin, then the status of elite squos was growing and the restraint was in the stall, the first time it held for the last 150 years under the Romanovs, the second time it lasted 10-15 years, now the formation of elites
        Quote: Corsair5912
        The USSR was partitioned secretly, according to the thieves, there was no tacit agreement, the people were confronted with a fact. Benya Reltsin screamed that he would lie on the rails, if the people's standard of living fell, the people believed. The standard of living declined 2,5 times, but it did not fall into Pascud.

        Yeltsin then did not begin to punish, and why? they expected something good, one of those who expected received it, but it’s never enough for everyone, so you should always drive the supporters of sharp movements into the neck, because of them, many will fly out of the body, and of course it will become more especially quick for some
  • Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 17 January 2014 08: 31
    +12
    I don’t remember that in the USSR they would close the railway, but they would close it and sell the rails, but only 80 km: the city of port - reg. Centre. And there were more than 100 steamboats, and only 16 remained. The fishing fleet - ALL went to the nails! And this development ????
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 08: 59
      -1
      Quote: Uncle Lee
      : port city - reg. Centre. And there were more than 100 ships, and only 16 remained.

      Is there a port city name?
      1. vladkavkaz
        vladkavkaz 17 January 2014 11: 56
        +5
        Alexander Romanov (2
        Interestingly, but from the fact that they write the name, do you personally change something?
        So I give you a name, the city of Vladikavkaz, now open the Google, look at how many enterprises there were, including defense ones, and then look what is there now, instead of the enterprises in general.
        If I see, during the YEAR, that something has changed in the city - at least the OZATE plant has earned full power, instead of buying and selling the Arctic home, I will believe that a certain Alexander Romanov is good for something other than chatter on the Internet — such statement of a question?
      2. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee 17 January 2014 12: 25
        +12
        The answer is: the city of the port of Kholmsk, Sakhalin region. It was: Paper mill; UMRZF-KhBPTF - about one hundred mining and processing vessels with infrastructure and housing stock; plant "Stroydetal". The fishing port with refrigerators - handles only the oil industry, there are no refrigerators. "Lakobanka" - provided the entire Far East with banknotes, now only to order in small batches. SakhMP had more than 100 steamers, now it is 16. The railway depot and the road to the capital of Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk - ordered to live long. And is this development or decline?
        1. Far East
          Far East 17 January 2014 13: 01
          +2
          Quote: Uncle Lee
          And is it development or decline?

          this is complete CRASH! here on the Far East. everything collapsed!
          1. Uncle lee
            Uncle lee 17 January 2014 14: 09
            +8
            Prisoners on Sakhalin were laid on government kosht. And now we have freedom!
        2. 31231
          31231 17 January 2014 18: 54
          -2
          Here they say that they are building a trifle now, judging by the 80-km non-profit piece of iron on Sakhalin, this is just HORROR! Maybe it’s time already several hundred kilometers to the North? There both Sakhalin-1 and Sakhalin-2 are built.
          1. Far East
            Far East 18 January 2014 04: 19
            0
            Quote: 31231
            judging by the 80-km non-profit piece of iron on Sakhalin, it’s right HORROR! Maybe it’s time already several hundred kilometers to the North?

            Do we have a bridge to Sakhalin? I live nearby and don’t see laughing well, you are the storyteller "egorka" bully
  • Jarilo
    Jarilo 17 January 2014 08: 49
    +5
    Factories fell victim to economic policies, and effective managers are like vultures flocking to. Production should be profitable, and in the face of high interest rates on loans, which result from the refinancing rate of the Central Bank and the heavy tax burden, enterprises are simply not able to survive. The logic of our government is as simple as a club: we need money, we need to raise taxes. And it does not occur to you that lowering taxes can increase the tax base and in absolute terms tax collections will also increase. Not only domestic manufacturers are bending or leaving the country, but foreign manufacturers do not go to Russia, they try to get components, i.e. actually finished product, and just unscrew it with us in order to bypass customs duties.
    1. VeryHardClown
      VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 09: 06
      +4
      plus the climatic features of Russia and infrastructure support costs are imposed. 10-15 million people are quite enough for servicing gas and oil fields, the rest of the population, the costs that should disappear to please the chosen course of development and are fully invested in the concept of the "golden billion", although a billion is clearly overstated, they just do not want to frighten.
  • calocha
    calocha 17 January 2014 09: 05
    +8
    I had VEGA !! I remember it with joy, because they could ... It’s a pity that the introduced pests destroyed such an enterprise. After the revolution 93, why lie to yourself, it was a capitalist revolution, greedy predators came to power and they didn’t give a damn all for them GOD DOLLAR !!!!
  • Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 17 January 2014 09: 12
    +6
    Yeah, the fact that Russia during the collapse of the USSR lost enormous territories with millions of people, thousands of industries, schools, hospitals, etc. This type is not considered, like it's not corpses, so separated. Millions of those who were not born as a result of a fall in the standard of living are also not considered, it’s, like, vertically. Yeah. Type and there is no damage. That's just what kind of tribe Russia is from, everything rises and rises, and cannot rise.
  • Altona
    Altona 17 January 2014 09: 24
    +2
    Quote: Kyrgyz
    But it was already impossible to save the USSR with its estate-feudal system at the end of the 80x, because it was abolished with the tacit consent of most citizens, many mistakes, now looking into the past it’s easy to poke mistakes and blame someone, it will be more correct to draw conclusions and move on. .

    ----------------------------
    Yes, it was impossible to preserve ... But the layer did not go anywhere, it became even more powerful and crushed the state under itself, inflating small-townism, nepotism, obscurantism and other "charms" ...
  • Same lech
    Same lech 17 January 2014 09: 30
    +2
    I believe that the main loss of RUSSIA from the actions of stupid reforms is a lost generation of young people - the connection between them and our ancestors was broken - this gap was very DIFFICULT TO RESTORE.

    But still, I believe that we will crawl out of this hole and we will receive a very important lesson for the future.

    You can’t trust your future PASSERS in power - you need to filter them starting from kindergarten.
  • Corsair5912
    Corsair5912 17 January 2014 09: 31
    +7
    Only Nazism had its own Nuremberg, but Russian democracy is unlikely to shine like that. Although everything that has been going on in Russia over the past 25 years has long deserved a separate, close trial. Which, unfortunately, is unlikely to ever be possible ...

    The people have already condemned the liberals, only the right moment is needed and the sentence will be carried out. The Romanovs with their gang of "blue princes", officials, priests, gendarmes, merchants, kulaks, to the last, considered themselves inviolable and not subject to trial and punishment.
    The story is not over yet. Any revolution consists of 4 stages:
    1. Coup (was in 1991 year)
    2. Terror (attacked Russia in the 90 years)
    3. Stagnation (started after 2000 year)
    4. Restoration (they are talking about a return to socialism more and more often at all levels).
  • jjj
    jjj 17 January 2014 09: 44
    +2
    It is necessary to separate the production facilities that were deliberately closed and those that were closed due to the lack of demand for products. Here AZLK was not needed. But the WHA works. There are furniture and food production facilities, the entire former Sredmash, we have new metallurgical facilities, garment workers are already pushing the Chinese. These facts are not secret. And yet, who will tell you how many factories should be closed for uselessness, but they are kept so as not to expose people "to the frost"
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 17 January 2014 09: 59
      0
      Quote: jjj
      But the WHA is working.

      Quote: jjj
      There are furniture and food production facilities, the entire former Sredmash, we have new metallurgical facilities, garment workers are already pushing the Chinese. These facts are not secret. And yet, who will tell you how many factories should be closed for uselessness, but they are kept so as not to expose people "to the frost"

      You wrote it in vain, since there is nothing to cover the trolls, they will stupidly put a minus and run by.
      1. kotvov
        kotvov 17 January 2014 11: 55
        +5
        it’s interesting for you. Someone who is not happy with Putin is the leader for you, and who, like you, is the creator. But it doesn’t seem to you that Russia is huge and for the most part it is the destruction of what is left. then I have to eat. I UNDERSTAND THAT EVERYTHING IS NOT CONSTRUCTED IMMEDIATELY, but larceny can be stopped. And in our country it’s possible to steal one who is close, and whoever doesn’t share it is prison. Here and I think Putin who created this system is to blame .
    2. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 17 January 2014 11: 58
      +4
      Quote: jjj
      But the WHA is working.

      I will not put a minus. I am from Togliatti, and above is my koment about VAZ. He is already French. hi
  • demotivator
    demotivator 17 January 2014 09: 54
    +3
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    So Putin drowned her personally?

    "She drowned."
  • Oleg Sobol
    Oleg Sobol 17 January 2014 10: 00
    -3
    Quote: VeryHardClown
    plus the climatic features of Russia and infrastructure support costs are imposed. 10-15 million people are quite enough for servicing gas and oil fields, the rest of the population, the costs that should disappear to please the chosen course of development and are fully invested in the concept of the "golden billion", although a billion is clearly overstated, they just do not want to frighten.


    You have an extraordinary mess in your head. You picked up all sorts of "information", but absolutely did not learn to analyze it, comprehend it, it is easier to separate the grains from the chaff ... You should first understand the difference between Homo Sapiens, Homo Ereticus and Homo Scriptum ... Although you have already decided "post factum".
    1. VeryHardClown
      VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 10: 07
      -2
      Well, well ... you somehow forgot that the border of the Upper Paleolithic is relative to "yesterday", while your homosapiens and homoeretikus are obviously taken from the Vakhi? FOR PAPHOS !!! 11
      1. VeryHardClown
        VeryHardClown 18 January 2014 02: 49
        0
        a person writes homo ereticus instead of "homo erectus", the only place where he could meet homo ereticus in the fictional universe of warhammer 40k.
        the boundary of the Upper Paleolithic is the end of the formation of the homo sapiens species.
        Homo scriptum who I do not know, can again be taken from the warhammer 40K infected with the obliterator virus. on this my assumptions end.
        In general, gentlemen, who are less well-read and do not understand the style of the answer, please refrain from commenting. those who first read about the Upper Paleolithic in these comments - I also ask you to refrain from commenting, because op is really PAPHOSNY
  • Bigriver
    Bigriver 17 January 2014 10: 08
    +3
    The author, in the pathos of exposing nameless democrats and managers, forgets a very significant point.
    Products produced at sunset in the USSR were non-alternative, and they would have been consumed domestically in any situation.
    With the reforms of the early 90s, we became open to the foreign market. And it became clear that we can hardly offer a damn competitive mass demand in the outside world.
    TV "Rubin", you say .., amplifiers and tape recorders "Vega"? ...
    In the late 80s, I somehow bought a Japanese Technics amplifier (used) for 600 rubles. For this cost, you could buy three Soviet amplifiers. But why?
    In a word, in order to continue the production of the entire range of products manufactured in the USSR, a large-scale reconstruction and re-equipment of enterprises was required, based on economic analysis — where, in which niches can we be competitive?
    How was it possible to do this if the property was distributed to former farmers and Komsomol functionaries?
    The article is stupid.
    Hitler still dragged from his, allegedly, desire to restore production in the occupied territories.
    The saddest thing is that you wouldn't even behave like that the Naziswhich, as history shows, were interested in job preservation and industrial production.

    The saddest thing is that the author draws conclusions about the processes about which he heard something somewhere.
    I would be interested in WHICH enterprises worked in these territories? Brains would be cleared.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Egen
      Egen 17 January 2014 12: 52
      +1
      Quote: BigRiver
      if the property was distributed to former farmers and Komsomol functionaries

      Quote: demotivator
      Having taken power, the Komsomol dilettantes "steering" together with the same party consultants ruined the country

      About the Komsomol members: I don't want to offend anyone personally; we have a not-so-small "Red October" factory in Leninsk for the repair and production of GSHOs. About 10 years ago, the owner decided to appoint the former secretary of the Leninist city committee of the Komsomol to the board of directors and head of the management company. Well, he liked him for something :) For the first month, he began by taking his relative and his wife as his deputy and, as it were, sold an official "Nissan" to himself and bought a Zhiguli enterprise with the proceeds :)
  • demotivator
    demotivator 17 January 2014 10: 10
    +2
    "Party, let me steer!"
    The well-known joke about the Komsomol during the late perestroika in fact turned into a tragedy for the country. Having taken power, the Komsomol dilettantes "steering" together with the same party consultants ruined the country.
    1. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 17 January 2014 10: 42
      0
      Quote: demotivator
      “Party, let me steer!” The well-known joke about the Komsomol during the late perestroika in fact turned into a tragedy for the country. Having taken power, the Komsomol dilettantes "steering" together with the same party consultants ruined the country.

      Not true.
      There were no Komsomol amateurs in the USSR leadership; in the PB and in the Central Committee of the CPSU, the average age of functionaries was at least 60 years.
      "Youth", Gorbachev and Yeltsin, in 1985 were 54 years old, also not a Komsomol age.
      The superintendents of perestroika, too, were by no means Komsomol members, in 1991, e. Gaidar - 35 years, Chubais - 36 years.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Boris55
      Boris55 17 January 2014 10: 44
      +3
      Quote: demotivator
      "Party, let me steer!"


    4. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 17 January 2014 12: 12
      +4
      Quote: demotivator
      Komsomol dilettantes "steering"

      Yes, they are not amateurs, but traitors.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Corsair5912
        Corsair5912 17 January 2014 13: 16
        +2
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        Yes, they are not amateurs, but traitors.

        It is not for nothing that the Yankes paid their suitcases of bucks for lectures and "books".
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 17 January 2014 14: 41
          +3
          Quote: Corsair5912
          It is not for nothing that the Yankes paid their suitcases of bucks for lectures and "books".

          Even the Americans admitted that they actively participated in the collapse of our economy through privatization, and Chubais, even though they had pisses in his eye, would argue that he had never heard of this.
    5. Kunar
      Kunar 17 January 2014 17: 31
      0
      They were given a steering wheel))) Let them first hold on for the clutches ...
  • cdboy
    cdboy 17 January 2014 10: 28
    +9
    Good day! An interesting comparison, the "executioner" Stalin, came to power and carried out thousands of repressions against the "innocent", thus bringing an agrarian, destroyed and underdeveloped country into the space age. All liberals shouted that he was a concentrated global evil. The story goes in a spiral. Now, in order to become a country at the level of the Stalinist country, it is necessary (according to the members of the forum): Return all the money from the bins of the oligarchs, repress their punishments and edifications + with them, together with all their assistants for less, and in pursuit and assistants assistants + deputies + a good part government + roofing both from the authorities and from the lads + those who supported them and justified them in the media. I think that also more than one thousand organisms will turn out. Conclusion: after all, Stalin did what D.B. and he did it clearly and skillfully. It looks like he gave a recipe for a long time how to deal with enemies, and we all come up with ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 17 January 2014 10: 51
      +4
      Quote: cdboy
      I think that not one thousand organisms will succeed either. Conclusion: But Stalin did what d. and he did it clearly and jewelryly. It seems he has long given a recipe for how to deal with enemies, and we all come up with ...

      You can take indictments from trials on the affairs of enemies of the people and only change the surname, everything else is so precisely formulated that neither diminish nor add, even the corpus delicti. am
      Closing indictment


      in the case of Bukharin N.I., Rykov A.I., Yagoda G.G., Krestinsky N.N., Rakovsky HG, Rozengolts A.P., Ivanova V.I., Chernova M.A., Grinko G.F., Zelensky I.A., Bessonova S.A., Ikramova A., Khodzhaev F., Sharangovich V.F., Zubarev P.T., Bulanova P.P., Levina L.G., Pletneva D.D., Kazakova I.N., Maksimova-Dikovsky V.A. and Kryuchkova P.P., -
      SUSPECTS THAT THEY on the instructions of intelligence hostile to the Soviet Union of Foreign States to draw up a conspiratorial group called "Right-Trotskyite bloc" has set the goal of spying for a foreign state, wrecking, sabotage, terrorism and undermining the military power of the Soviet Union, provocation of military attack THESE STATES IN THE USSR RACHLENENIE USSR and isolation from it Ukraine, Belarus and the Central Asian Republics, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Primorye THE FAR EAST - THE BENEFIT REFERRED TO FOREIGN COUNTRIES FINALLY overthrow in the Soviet Union existing socialist social and political system and Recovery CAPITALISM, RESTORATION OF BOURGEOIS POWER.
    3. Kunar
      Kunar 17 January 2014 17: 34
      0
      Applause....
  • brainkiller
    brainkiller 17 January 2014 10: 45
    +1
    Perhaps the most incident of the situation is that in the country there are just not enough effective managers. (if as the criterion of efficiency we take precisely the ability to manage investments or an already built enterprise).
    There are no such people. No business executives, no managers. The USSR has long been gone, and management approaches have changed only in some offices, which are now characterized by a positive balance.
    1. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 17 January 2014 11: 04
      +2
      Quote: brainkiller
      Perhaps the most incident of the situation is that in the country there are just not enough effective managers. (if as the criterion of effectiveness we take precisely the ability to manage investments or an already built enterprise). There are no such people. No business executives, no managers. The USSR has long been gone, and management approaches have changed only in some offices, which are now characterized by a positive balance.

      Where will the skilled managers come from, if 15 years, from 1985 to 2000, only people were reduced at the enterprises, and those that remained did not actually work or worked, but did not receive a salary. Everyone who was younger left plants, factories, plants and mines, and wherever.
      So far, we retired workers haven’t died at the production site, and we don’t see a change, they are all traders, lawyers, economists, and there are no engineers.
      1. brainkiller
        brainkiller 17 January 2014 11: 27
        -1
        I’m far from retiring, but I’m inclined to think that the sooner pensioners stop dragging production, the sooner positive changes will occur. But there are engineers, not those that used to be, of course, but there are simply they are not going to you, but where there is more money, i.e. to transnationals.

        By the way, there was and is now a very fashionable trend to put reserve officers in senior positions. This symptom allows you to diagnose a complete absence of specialists.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Corsair5912
          Corsair5912 17 January 2014 12: 23
          +1
          Quote: brainkiller
          I’m far from retiring, but I’m inclined to think that the sooner pensioners stop dragging production, the sooner positive changes will occur. But there are engineers, not those that used to be, of course, but there are simply they are not going to you, but where there is more money, i.e. to transnationals.

          There are already so many shifts that there is nowhere else to go, only collapse further.
          Who told you that transnationals have more money? For 5 years I worked as a chief specialist in a Moscow multinational company, the salary was not high, and they were constantly detained. I am not a trader, but an engineer.
          They are very willing to work with us, our GUIs receive 100-120 thousand rubles, leading specialists in 50-70 thousand, but there’s no one to choose from, the level of knowledge coming below is low, but professional skills are zero.
          What positive shifts can be with such frames? They need to be taught and taught for several years, all that is not given at universities.
          1. brainkiller
            brainkiller 17 January 2014 12: 35
            0
            Quote: Corsair5912
            They are very willing to work with us, our GUIs receive 100-120 thousand rubles, leading specialists in 50-70 thousand, but there’s no one to choose from, the level of knowledge coming below is low, but professional skills are zero.

            the problem is ripe, how to solve it? You need to go to a specialized institute and in advance of the course still select personnel on the 3rd. Stimulate young professionals. Strategic management implies planning the work of the company for 5-10 years ahead. And let's say the same German Siemens acted exactly like this about 6 years ago (as I don't know now). Now generation "Y" are such dunce that explanatory ones are brought in the form of comics =)

            Who in your company was supposed to do this and think it over? Right, head.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Egen
              Egen 17 January 2014 12: 57
              +2
              Quote: brainkiller
              You need to go to a specialized institute and in advance know how to select personnel on 3

              We do it and give it as Nicholas writes - there is but little efficiency :( The whole system in the country is not the same, the institutes teach for money - on a commercial basis all the teachers, even my remaining Soviet-era teachers, still don’t move anything for free do it or explain it. And the students just don’t care - they look at them as a source of income and not how to hammer knowledge. Unfortunately, in recent years 4-5 it has become a fait accompli :(
              Therefore, early selection of personnel is good, but not like before :(
              1. brainkiller
                brainkiller 17 January 2014 13: 10
                0
                Then give up. Now the release of the guys will be 93 born, I think 5 will not have to wait for an influx of specialists because of the low birth rate in those days.
                There remains a struggle in the labor market and the preservation of existing ones.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • tank64rus
    tank64rus 17 January 2014 11: 08
    0
    This is the result of the "stormy activities" of foreign special services and the decomposed party nomenclature plus criminals. Now all this g..but floats at the top and finishes off the remnants of Russia.
    1. brainkiller
      brainkiller 17 January 2014 11: 41
      +2
      Quote: tank64rus
      This is the result of the "stormy activities" of foreign special services and the decomposed party nomenclature plus criminals. Now all this g..but floats at the top and finishes off the remnants of Russia.
      This is of course nonsense, but suppose so. What's next? A pitchfork in your hands? =) Whom do we set as king? I don’t remember something during the collapse of the USSR and the further destruction of such appeals.
      And when there was a real chance to save the country by supporting GK PE in 91, we did not use it. Today's retirees have spoiled the country.
      Give the current, my generation, to disentangle this mess without brewing a new one.

      This city, floating in the minds of people and in yours in particular, has already twice destroyed the state at the root worse than any wars, does history really teach nothing?
      1. SRC P-15
        SRC P-15 17 January 2014 18: 23
        +1
        Quote: brainkiller
        Today's retirees have spoiled the country. Give the current, my generation, to disentangle this mess without brewing a new one.

        Are you sure that you are smarter than the older generation? So far, one thing has been heard from young mouths: to take and share. But without blood, you are unlikely to succeed. But I'm afraid if we saved the USSR, you would now blame us for this.
        1. 31231
          31231 17 January 2014 18: 56
          0
          But I'm afraid if we saved the USSR,

          So didn’t they save it ?! The wind of change in the ass blew? Does he still seem to be blowing, hoping to achieve a new future?
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • valeriklukin
    valeriklukin 17 January 2014 11: 43
    +2
    Power behaves as the people allow it!?
  • Goldmitro
    Goldmitro 17 January 2014 12: 10
    0
    <<< "Effective managers" caused more damage to Russia than the invasion of Hitler >>>
    It seems that this institution of "effective managers" was imposed on Russia on purpose in order to inflict as much damage on Russia as possible with the help of scientific theories of management and, above all, the management of cash flows and state property, which we see in the classic example of an "effective manager" in fact, a primitive grabber (optimizer of public funds and material assets in his own interests) Taburetkin! And how many such "managers - optimizers" in Russia are quietly WORKING in the sweat of their brow for the good, of course, WHOM! No national wealth will be enough to satisfy the needs of this SVORA!
  • Goldmitro
    Goldmitro 17 January 2014 12: 11
    +2
    <<< "Effective managers" caused more damage to Russia than the invasion of Hitler >>>
    It seems that this institution of "effective managers" was imposed on Russia on purpose in order to inflict as much damage on Russia as possible with the help of pseudoscientific theories of management and, above all, the management of cash flows and state property, which we see in the classic example of an "effective manager" in fact, a primitive grabber (optimizer of state funds and material assets in his own interests) Taburetkin! And how many such "managers - optimizers" in Russia are quietly WORKING in the sweat of their brow for the good, of course, WHOM! No national wealth will be enough to satisfy the density of this SWORA!
  • vkrav
    vkrav 17 January 2014 12: 13
    +6
    ... And the manager brushed off a stingy pederastic tear, ate a fierce offense with a boutique with black caviar, washed down the melancholy with cognac, got naughty from the nerves of an elite whore, got into a goddamn Maybach, and went to an impoverished office ... Because "there is such a job-- to sell homeland "(c). And so that you hang yourself with your censorship filters!
    1. VeryHardClown
      VeryHardClown 17 January 2014 13: 40
      +1
      + trillion! exactly! especially final quote
  • Not hearing
    Not hearing 17 January 2014 12: 20
    +1
    Many enterprises privatized in an interesting way. First of all, the labor collective had the right to privatization, and it was he who owned a controlling stake. Some part of the shares went into free flight for sale. Naturally, in the collective itself, most of the shares belonged to the leadership of this enterprise - director, deputy, chap. engineer, beginning departments, beg. workshops, etc. Well, some part of the shares was held by the workers. I know of two large factories in my hometown in Nizhny Novgorod where this scheme worked, these are the Gorky Machine Tool Plant and the Gorky Automobile Plant.
    The machine tool essentially ordered a long life. Formally, according to the papers, it exists, one or two workshops remained there, that they sculpt there, although this is no longer a factory. According to the papers, they are part of a machine-tool holding with a center, if I am not mistaken, in Ryazan.
    The car factory now belongs to Deripaska. It belongs to him, because the collective leaked his shares to him, that is, he sold it. They tried to resist at GAZ, there was such an order from the directorate that they would immediately dismiss the factory for the sale of shares, and some would be dismissed. But the sale process did not stop. And why? So my electrician worked at GAZ, he has the whole family at the factory: father, mother, wife, son. And they gave all their vouchers to the factory, plus, in addition, they gave them a certain number of shares. When he sold his shares he bought the Volga. And this despite the fact that he did not have a large stake. But he is a simple worker. And for how many representatives of the administration were selling their shares, that’s the question? And at the same time, all these bosses are our Soviet people who made a career from the bottom - many of the villages, 90% are former members of the CPSU party.
    And my conclusion is that at a number of factories the former members of the CPSU themselves, voluntarily sold their factories to the current effective managers. An old Russian proverb: "There is no point in blaming the mirror if the face is crooked."
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Corsair5912
      Corsair5912 17 January 2014 12: 42
      +6
      Quote: Not Hearing
      And my conclusion is that at a number of factories the former members of the CPSU themselves, voluntarily sold their factories to the current effective managers. An old Russian proverb: "There is no point in blaming the mirror if the face is crooked."

      You have a poor idea of ​​the privatization process.
      First bought vouchers, and then stocks. At very many enterprises, before privatization, they didn’t pay salaries for half a year, or even more, and people who were sitting without funds sold their shares, which they got a tiny amount of.
      Do you think where the Deripaska, Potanin, Prokhorov, Abramovich and other Berezovsky took millions of rubles to buy shares?
      They took loans from a state-owned bank (there were no other banks at that time) without caring about loan repayments, because the 2 stage of robbing the people, galloping inflation, was launched and soon everyone became millionaires, before the 1998 denomination of the year.
      Loans at the state bank were given not to everyone, but only to their own. Billionaire Prokhorov had friends. One was in the presidential administration, and the second was the governor of the Krasnoyarsk Territory, in which the Norilsk Nickel Plant is located, which enriched Prokhorov.
      1. Egen
        Egen 17 January 2014 13: 04
        +2
        Quote: Corsair5912
        You have a poor idea of ​​the privatization process

        Nikolay, you also have a poor idea of ​​the privatization process :)
        It was even easier at our mines :) What loans, what are you talking about, why? The director twisted the income from external sales and received% of the bank for the deposit. For six months (it happened before 8 months) the people didn’t receive a salary, and what to do - I sold the shares to the director for the same% of the bank for scrolling him, work, salary. If you remember, in the middle of 90's the percentage of the bank reached 240% (true per annum). Who taxied finances could take the company into their hands for several months without anything at all.
        Well, then the second shift began :) The mafia comes and puts the director on the table a Kalash and a diplomat with grandmothers - choose :) Half the diplomat chose, and of the remaining half I won’t even say how many directors are left ...
        1. Corsair5912
          Corsair5912 17 January 2014 20: 11
          +1
          Quote: Egen
          It was even easier at our mines :) What loans, what are you talking about, why? The director twisted the income from external sales and received% of the bank for the deposit

          And so it is.
          Not everyone had the opportunity to take millions of loans and buy out the world's largest mills. Here, too, the director twisted the budget money that was on the accounts of the enterprise, and bought up shares from workers.
          For a controlling stake, 25% was enough for him and this business cost him 20 million rubles. It was impossible to accumulate so much from the salary even in 10 years.
      2. Not hearing
        Not hearing 17 January 2014 15: 10
        0
        Well, why do I imagine myself poorly, I agree that you write about the delay in salaries, there was a hungry time. But I do not pretend to disclose the topic throughout privatization. I can say specifically for the car factory. An office was established at the plant where factory workers carried their vouchers in exchange for shares. The plant at that time worked in three shifts, the salary was also sometimes delayed, but not for six months. They didn’t starve at GAZ. Directly at the factories, so-called Chinese shops were created (the products there were mostly Chinese) and there they sold products and clothes. It was possible to take the goods, and if the salary was delayed, then accounting deducted from the salary. At that time, GAZ was the only large enterprise in the city successfully operating. It was considered prestigious to work on. Cars flew like hot cakes - just give, even the quality has fallen.
  • Goodmen
    Goodmen 17 January 2014 12: 23
    +3
    And the saddest thing is that these "effective managers" or their henchmen are still at the trough. Although even the dumbest sheep understands that they are enemies ... And the authorities pretend that everything is a bunch - well, they made a small mistake, with whom it does not happen ... And there is not a single competently implemented reform ... Industry belongs to Western capital .. .Agriculture is slowly striving ... National and social policies leave much to be desired ... There are attempts to "get up from their knees", but they are slow-moving in the long term ("inflation" will gobble up all the achievements), and what grandmothers are laundered to implement them. .. One understanding of the fact that more than 300 billion dollars were spent on the Olympiad, which is 80-100 !!! times more than at the Olympiads in other countries, gives an understanding of the "effectiveness" of the ruling "elite" ... But there is no opposition to the existing government, pro-Russian-minded leaders are not visible ... only pocket or pro-Western clowns ...
    Some hopelessness ... A little reassuring is that Russia was already going through troubled times ... though then there were other times ...
  • moremansf
    moremansf 17 January 2014 12: 28
    +2
    Efficiency was expressed in the sale of state property, factories into the hands of businessmen far from patriotism, as a result there is no industry, the fleet and the army were practically destroyed, the people became impoverished, the country turned into a raw material appendage of the West, the proceeds were hidden in offshores, their own life and all relatives up to the seventh generation provided for a long time ... the country was not ready for such efficiency, due to the low awareness of the population and education ... take at least the famous "privatization", people were promised mountains of gold, as a result, they were left without a livelihood ... no one knew what to do with these checks, but the "effective managers" who came up with this trick did not lose out ... so you will remember the words of Ilyich: - "Study, study and study again!" Only the smart ones learn from the mistakes of others ... however, in this case, there was a fooling of the country's population on a national scale ...
  • kaktus
    kaktus 17 January 2014 12: 33
    +2
    http://www.rospisatel.ru/predprijatija.htm - список уничтоженных предприятий.

    5 small firms for installing plastic windows against one factory - quantitatively, of course. more ... lies simple, arrogant, statistics and reality ....
  • Power
    Power 17 January 2014 13: 08
    +1
    I think the "Nuremberg Trial" Above ours (or not ours anymore? Shpanoy Elite As Brzezinski asked) is still necessary. You need to give each "vegetable" and "fruit" a name. The people should know who "HU" is. And if some "comrades" and can not do anything and are afraid to leave. The worse and harder the consequences for the country will be.
  • polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 17 January 2014 13: 10
    +2
    The authorities want, they don’t want, the people have already woken up. I think the suitcases of compromising evidence “haven’t gone anywhere”, but only multiplied. In the special services, managers do not work and I think they haven’t forgotten anything and have not forgotten about anyone. And the Office “L” will be re-created.
  • Jeglov
    Jeglov 17 January 2014 13: 20
    +4
    The issue of production degradation is certainly interesting.
    I can judge this fairly objectively. Since I live in the industrial city of Donetsk region of Ukraine - Mariupol. Without exaggeration, industrial engineering and metallurgical enterprises here are city-forming. In addition, most of my career I work at one machine-building enterprise. Despite the fact that I work as a lawyer, I can judge the state of the machine-building sector without the cretinism inherent in the majority of “humanities” who did not see production at point blank range. The fact is that he worked for a long time at this enterprise in “personnel” and was engaged in the selection of personnel. Roughly speaking - labor for workshops. At this time, he managed to decently "pay attention" regarding the specifics of production.
    In this regard, I was interested to see the report of the Russian RTR-planet about the seminar in Moscow, conducted by the Russian government. As I understand it, the most liberal part of the Medvedev team was completely represented.
    The question arose about personnel issues and that the fight against unemployment should be conducted by the method, as it were ... Labor migration. They say that if there are a lot of workers in one place, then you do not need to keep them. To reduce nafig. And so that the trousers do not spend time in employment centers for nothing - to organize their retraining by state forces (I draw attention to the state!) And arrangement in the area where there is a shortage of labor. How beautiful it sounds! How logical! I understand that, ideally, this would look like this: in Uryupensk, 2 people were fired at the GAYEK winding plant, and they were retrained through the state employment center and sent to Khatsapetovka to the "Bolt winding up" plant.
    Beautiful, yes! In liberal terms, it’s simple and clear. One, the question is - the one who invented this plant not seen on TV? Looks like no! Moreover, he does not know anything about the heavy imprint that the market economy has left on the once-advanced industrial production! As Skobelev used to say: “It was smooth on paper, but they forgot about the ravines!”
  • Jeglov
    Jeglov 17 January 2014 13: 21
    +4
    Right now, there is such a legend that is actively exaggerated by neoliberals, as they say, in Ukraine (and Russia, too), a huge shortage of production personnel. Say, they spawned lawyers and economists, but you cannot find a decent turner. I will say in Ukrainian - nonsense! Of course, the economy does not need such a number of “lawyers and economists” —Most of them are useless ballast that produces nothing. However, do not confuse cause and effect. Such a number of "humanities" has bred, because they currently have no use directly in the production sphere.
    There are fewer skilled workers, not because many “lawyers and economists” graduate, but because the current capitalists, who have acquired industrial giants for free during privatization, do not feel the need for such a labor force. In short, industrial (especially machine-building) enterprises are so weakly loaded from their real capacities that it is absolutely pointless to carry out a full-fledged reception of qualified personnel in such conditions. Reduce those that are.
    Let me give you an example so as not to be unfounded. Machine-building enterprises have always had a need for machine tools. Qualified turners in price. Another thing is how this need is being met. If in Soviet times the need was met methodically and systematically. First, a school, then a specialized educational institution, then industrial training at the enterprise (VERY IMPORTANT STAGE), then years of work at the machine. The output was a highly skilled machine operator of the 5th, 6th category, who knew his machine tool as his “genital organ”. Borers, merry-go-rounds, special caste operators of CNC were especially appreciated. After the collapse of the USSR, the system began to rapidly degrade. The low workload of enterprises generated the outflow of good specialists abroad. Whom - where. All this was aggravated by the degradation of vocational education in educational institutions (vocational schools) and the systemic degradation of vocational training in enterprises. It became absolutely unprofitable for private owners to fully educate the younger generation. You will train a machine operator, and tomorrow he will run away to a competitor because of a low salary and poor working conditions. Who needs this?
    As a result, the situation became absolutely sad, it looks like this: personnel updating at the expense of young people does not occur, old people spend their days at retirement, and able-bodied skilled machine tools who still remain rush from one enterprise to another, depending on who offers what. As a result, if the company receives a good order where machining is necessary, hysterical throwing begins in search of those who are able to do this.
    Only clear planning can change the situation, if you want a return to a “planned economy" —when the company knows exactly what will happen tomorrow, or better within the next 5 years. What will be the load, how many production workers are needed, whom to train and which of them will be next. In a “liberal” economy, this is not possible. So the human resources departments will rush about in search of “5 borers and 10 carousels”.
  • Jeglov
    Jeglov 17 January 2014 13: 22
    +7
    Now I would like to return to the Moscow seminar of the Russian government. Say, it is necessary to reduce and retrain. The question arises: why reduce the same borer and retrain him for something else if he does not have a load? This is tantamount to retraining the jeweler as a window cleaner. All this leads to the final degradation of the workforce. Lose her valuable skills. A person is not a robot - they don’t install a program in his head in 30 minutes! This takes years! And losing skills can be very easy.
    In addition, who will retrain at the "state" expense - employment centers or what is there in Russia? No offense to the employees of these centers - this is a waste of time for the unemployed and budgetary funds of the state. Roughly speaking, retraining welders at flower growers. Then, flower growers continue to receive unemployment benefits. Almost no one needs florists. The system when out of 300 retrained 1 or 2 employed - is clearly inefficient. Full-fledged retraining can be given only by PRODUCTION TRAINING DIRECTLY AT THE ENTERPRISE, but the gentlemen of the capitalists must fork out for this, but they don’t need a hundred years.
    The normal way to solve the problem of unemployment is not to transport the unemployed from city to city (labor migration), hoping that they will get settled somewhere and finally find a permanent job, but to revive and build industry. To modernize working and build new enterprises, and they themselves will retrain whom they need.
    In another way, the liberals will continue to retrain 5th grade welders as cashiers at the trading floor in supermarkets.

    Yours!
    1. drop
      drop 17 January 2014 15: 16
      +2
      Dear Konstantin, very competently you have laid out for the ignoramuses all aspects of the work of an industrial enterprise. Now a decent owner of the plant is needed, which should have a future, and the country should have a system for providing orders to socially significant enterprises, especially defense ones. Then you don’t have to retrain the welder as a cleaner, an installer as a locksmith. Everyone will do the work that he has chosen in life. It was all destroyed by the liberals, who convinced everyone that the market would put everything in its place. The crime turned out-destroyed everything, did not create anything. Those who created nothing enriched themselves.
      1. Jeglov
        Jeglov 17 January 2014 15: 59
        +2
        Thank you very much!
        But the matter is not in the personalities - the bad or good owner of the plant, but in the system itself. I can’t say a good or bad person is an oligarch in and of itself. Maybe he himself is a wonderful person - he loves children, dogs and cats. Maybe he embroiders beads at night and sews butterflies on butterflies, but as they say - business is business! For example, let’s turn to the classics of cinema - “The Godfather”. Was Carleone a bad person? No! Very smart and decent person! But let's face it. Carleone was a thug. And his methods were gangster. Yes, he acted, obeying the requirements of the system - also gangster. If he acted differently, the System would simply crush him like a tomato. And here the state should already be acting. The state’s task is not to eliminate Carleone, but the entire system in the bud.
        So it is with industry. If you change something, then the system, and not a bad owner for a good one. They themselves are changing quite well.