Military Review

Official notice of the delivery of six Osprey converters in Israel

126
The US Department of Defense's Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA), 13, on January 2013, sent an official notification to the US Congress about the upcoming delivery of six Bell Boeing V-22B Block C Osprey to Israel. The estimated cost of delivery through Foreign Military Sales (FMS) will be 1,13 billion dollars. As previously reported, the delivery will be financed against US military aid to Israel.


Block C is the most modern version of the MV-22B convertiplane used by the US Marine Corps, although it is inferior in terms of equipment richness of the CV-22B version of the US Air Force used in the interests of the US Special Forces Command.

In this way, Israel became the first foreign customer of the convertible V-22 Osprey. The second foreign customer, V-22, is likely to be Japan, which officially included the purchase of 14 units in a prospective five-year procurement plan for the Self-Defense Forces.


Figure convertible Bell Bell V-22B Osprey in the coloring of the Israeli Air Force (c) Al Clark / janetairliners.com
Originator:
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/
126 comments
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  1. evgenii67
    evgenii67 16 January 2014 11: 38 New
    +4
    "The estimated cost of delivery through Foreign Military Sales (FMS) will be $ 1,13 billion" for 6 "turntables", even if unusual, this is more than $ 180 mln. And how did the Americans persuade the Jews?
    1. klimpopov
      klimpopov 16 January 2014 11: 42 New
      +8
      Yes, no one persuaded, they just said
      "-nado Fed, nnnado"
      1. bask
        bask 16 January 2014 12: 33 New
        +4
        Quote: klimpopov
        "-nado Fed, nnnado"

        Better so Klim. Nado Abram-nado. angry
        But from the bottom line, now Israel doesn’t need them.
        Flight range without refueling with 24 paratroopers 720 km.
        Tsahal, preparing for operations in Syria and Iran.
        They are not needed to Israel anymore !!!
        клик
        1. A.YARY
          A.YARY 16 January 2014 13: 55 New
          +2
          bask
          Quote
          getting ready for operations in Syria
          they are already there!
        2. AVV
          AVV 16 January 2014 15: 01 New
          -1
          Yes, just helicopters, both more reliable and cheaper, that they promised Abram that you just won’t scout on the chaff, but here they lit it up !!! And it's not just that !!!
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 16 January 2014 16: 38 New
            +7
            Quote: AVV
            Yes, just helicopters, both more reliable and cheaper, that they promised Abram that you just won’t scout on the chaff, but here they lit it up !!! And it's not just that !!!

            A helicopter for its tasks, Osprey for its own. Nobody refuses from helicopters
            1. APASUS
              APASUS 16 January 2014 19: 10 New
              +2
              Quote: Pimply
              A helicopter for its tasks, Osprey for its own. Nobody refuses from helicopters

              What kind of tasks is beyond the power of a helicopter or what tasks can only Osprey solve in Israel?
              It is very reminiscent of an advertising company with far-reaching goals. Because Osprey has too much ambiguous reputation, I have already copied clippings from American newspapers where it was called problematic, etc.
              1. Pimply
                Pimply 16 January 2014 19: 40 New
                +5
                Quote: APASUS
                What kind of tasks is beyond the power of a helicopter or what tasks can only Osprey solve in Israel?
                It is very reminiscent of an advertising company with far-reaching goals. Because Osprey has too much ambiguous reputation, I have already copied clippings from American newspapers where it was called problematic, etc.

                Delivery of more wounded or reinforcements at twice the speed than a helicopter, for example. Enough? Yes, for me. Israeli pilots are thrilled with the car. Or do you think that Israel has too little theater?
                Any new technique is problematic. Do you propose to abandon it in principle, along with progress? The Americans managed to overcome the problem. What did you want? They operate an apparatus similar to which no one had in the series. Naturally, they are the first to get all the bumps. But the fruits also reap first
                1. APASUS
                  APASUS 16 January 2014 19: 53 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Pimply
                  Delivery of more wounded or reinforcements at twice the speed than a helicopter, for example. Enough? Yes, for me

                  If you take your assertion as a basis, does Israel have an unprecedented loss on the nose? All the battle tactics in the Israeli army are designed to minimize losses, the Merkava tank was rebuilt there to protect the crew, because they have every person counting.
                  No, I think your statement is wrong, maybe the goals are different
                  1. Pimply
                    Pimply 17 January 2014 00: 28 New
                    0
                    Quote: APASUS
                    If you take as a basis your assertion, then Israel has an unprecedented loss on its nose?

                    And what does this follow from? Unexpected losses are when the evacuation of the wounded or the delivery of ammunition or reinforcements is not taken care of in advance. What nonsense, the right word.
                    Minimization of losses involves high-quality logistics, the rapid transfer of troops and ammunition, the delivery of the wounded from the battlefield to hospitals as soon as possible. And not just Merkava armor
                    1. APASUS
                      APASUS 17 January 2014 19: 45 New
                      0
                      Quote: Pimply
                      Minimization of losses involves high-quality logistics, the rapid transfer of troops and ammunition, the delivery of the wounded from the battlefield to hospitals as soon as possible. And not just Merkava armor

                      To build logistics, make miliary purchases, train flight personnel, personnel despite the fact that you are not preparing for war ........... or all the same, losses are planned and the war is natural ??? What kind of such costs? for the sake of logistics?
                2. Vasek
                  Vasek 16 January 2014 21: 27 New
                  +3
                  Quote: Pimply
                  Any new technique is problematic. Do you propose to abandon it in principle, along with progress? The Americans managed to overcome the problem. What did you want? They operate an apparatus similar to which no one had in the series. Naturally, they are the first to get all the bumps. But the fruits also reap first


                  The car is really - interesting, innovative and (like everything new) ambiguous.
                  I heard a lot of pilots and marines died while they learned how to overcome the vortex.
                  But the main question remained unanswered:
                  Why does Israel have a 300 km long landing convertiplane with a radius of over 700 km?
                  Somehow does not fit into the defensive doctrine, and indeed the name of the Israel Defense Forces?
                  1. tforik
                    tforik 16 January 2014 21: 33 New
                    +1
                    Over the past 10 years, Israel has actively conducted operations outside its territory. Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and a little earlier Egypt, etc. .... + they are ready for war with all objectionable Arabs.
                    And the doctrine of their IMHO is not as peaceful as ours.

                    And why do we need then t50?))
                  2. Pimply
                    Pimply 17 January 2014 00: 27 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Vasek
                    Somehow does not fit into the defensive doctrine, and indeed the name of the Israel Defense Forces?


                    Israel has nowhere to retreat. Russia had the opportunity to surrender vast territories in order to subsequently regroup and counterattack. Israel does not have such an opportunity. Therefore, his strategy involves preventive strikes (as in the 67th, when the Arabs began to draw the army to the borders) and the withdrawal of the theater of operations on the territory of the enemy
      2. Vasia kruger
        Vasia kruger 16 January 2014 12: 59 New
        +1
        Quote: klimpopov
        Yes, no one persuaded, they just said
        "-nado Fed, nnnado"


        And traditionally they offered a loan ...
      3. knn54
        knn54 16 January 2014 15: 23 New
        +1
        By the way, the tiltrotor is not included in the military assistance that the United States provides to Israel, but Jerusalem will receive them even earlier (out of turn) than in the National Marine Corps.
        In this case, the United States will receive all comments on the product from (what to hide) PROFI, which are Israeli pilots. Given the desert-mountain region (Iran, Lebanon ...) the best equipment for landing / evacuation of special forces can not come up with. The Yankees have a chance to look at work in REAL / combat conditions. And if something happens, then with "strangers."
        At the same time, if you need a document (or worse), a suicidal wave, and the prime minister refuses, he will press than ... the counter is ticking.
        1. Saboteur
          Saboteur 17 January 2014 08: 09 New
          +1
          Osprey have long been flying in Afghanistan. Battle experience is already there.
        2. Saboteur
          Saboteur 17 January 2014 08: 09 New
          0
          Osprey have long been flying in Afghanistan. Battle experience is already there.
    2. RUSS
      RUSS 16 January 2014 11: 53 New
      +6
      . And how did the Americans persuade the Jews? [/ Quote]


      That's something, but the Jews have almost no problems with the finances for armaments, the modern army for Israel is the guarantee of the existence of their country, in many ways more than for other countries.
    3. makarov
      makarov 16 January 2014 11: 57 New
      +2
      Maybe they want to test in combat conditions (?), And that’s why t.s. "is free"???
      1. zanoza
        zanoza 16 January 2014 12: 29 New
        +6
        But such a remotely (outwardly) resembling a tiltrotor, the MI-12 helicopter (according to NATO classification) - the heaviest and hoisting helicopter ever built in the world, flew into the USSR in 1968 in the year.
        1. klimpopov
          klimpopov 16 January 2014 13: 50 New
          +3
          As if visually Mi- 12. A tiltrotor was developed in the USSR.

          The creation of the Mi-30 was included in the weapons program for the 1986-1995 years. Unfortunately, due to economic difficulties, the propeller plane did not leave the stage of analytical design research. In 1991, OKB specialists designed three types of propeller planes: Mi-30С, Mi-30Д and Ми-30Л, with a carrying capacity of 3.2, 2.5 and 0.95т and a passenger capacity of 21, 11 and 7 people, respectively. The first two with a maximum take-off weight of 13t were supposed to be equipped with power plants from two TV7-117 engines, and the third (with 3.75t weight) from two AL-34 engines. We also considered combat options for propeller planes.
          At the beginning of the 90-ies, the possibility of participation of the Mil Moscow Millennium Cost Center in the European Eurofar program, including the Eureka program for the creation of a convertiplane similar to the Mi-30 scheme, was studied. However, at that time there were still no conditions for joint projects.
          Mi-30 - a project of the Soviet multi-purpose tiltrotor, developed by the cost center. M.L. Mila under the leadership of M.N. Tishchenko in the 1972 year. Inside the design bureau, this design scheme had its own name "propeller". The main task was to provide such parameters of speed and flight range that would exceed the similar parameters of helicopters. The Mi-30 tiltrotor was considered as a replacement for the Mi-8 multipurpose helicopter in the future. As a power plant, it was proposed to use two TV3-117 engines located above the cargo compartment, which were supposed to drive by means of a transmission two rotary-tensioning screws whose diameter was 11 m each. The estimated flight speed was to be 500 - 600 km / h, flight range - 800 km, take-off weight - 10,6 tons. Mi-30 in the initial project was intended for the transportation of passengers and passengers by 19 or 2 tons of cargo. Subsequently, the carrying capacity was increased to 3 — 5 t, and passenger capacity to 32 people.

          Another Kamov theme was Ka-22
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. atalef
          atalef 16 January 2014 14: 46 New
          +6
          Quote: zanoza
          But such a remotely (outwardly) resembling a tiltrotor, the MI-12 helicopter (according to NATO classification) - the heaviest and hoisting helicopter ever built in the world, flew into the USSR in 1968 in the year.

          This is a helicopter, it is not a priori a tiltrotor.
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 16 January 2014 15: 13 New
            +6
            MI-12 (V-12) was created for the transportation of ballistic missiles.
            1. Ascetic
              Ascetic 16 January 2014 23: 02 New
              +2
              Quote: Alex 241
              MI-12 (V-12) was created for the transportation of ballistic missiles.


              Khrushchev was going to transport rockets to it in the taiga ... It was such a thing. But eight world records and then oblivion ..
              M.L. Miles wrote in his diary:
              "NATO’s concept of a four to five-day nuclear war. All security factors, including geographic distance, no longer apply. Instead, constant mobility. Therefore, we need ... a powerful helicopter at one end of the field and an airplane at the other."
              A similar concept was developed in the United States. A heavy Boeing HLH helicopter was built there, but it did not even take off.
              Now, in my opinion, in a single copy in Monino at the Aviation Museum, he did not go into the series.
              1. Alex 241
                Alex 241 16 January 2014 23: 13 New
                +1
                Good evening, Stanislav. The KhSN-62 helicopter was developed under the HLH (Heavy Lift Helicopter) program, which provided for the creation of a heavy transport helicopter with a carrying capacity of 20 tons for the US Army. In its design, the company sought to avoid the duplication that occurred earlier when the army invested in the Chinook helicopter development program, and the Marine Corps - the Sikorsky SN-53A Sea Stellion helicopter, which had similar characteristics. The KhSN-62 helicopter was made according to a twin-screw longitudinal scheme with three gas turbine engines Allison XT701-AD-700 with a capacity of 8080 h.p. The dimensions of the helicopter gave reporters a reason to compare it with the Boeing 747 wide-body aircraft and the Lockheed S-5 Galaxy heavy military transport aircraft. Its estimated take-off weight was 53,525 kg, and the payload mass was 20,410 kg. When flying over short distances, the helicopter was able to carry cargo weighing 31,750 kg. The firm also investigated a variant with a take-off weight of 67,130 kg. The Boeing company began to build an experimental helicopter, but as a result of the cancellation of the HLH program in 1976. to the end did not finish it. The photo shows a partially finished helicopter HSN-62, which in 2006 due to poor storage in the open air, it became unusable and was destroyed.
                1. Ascetic
                  Ascetic 16 January 2014 23: 48 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Alex 241
                  Good evening Stanislav

                  Good evening, Alexandra! If you count how many different pepelats did not go into the series, then probably a whole helicopter regiment will be typed ... And Osprey in Afghanistan was good as a transport and landing pepelats. Loaded fuel barrels, paratroopers and here's an airfield for you to refuel or jump for the Chinuk in an inaccessible area.
                  The truth is I do not know how he is opposed to MANPADS and whether there were military losses in Afghanistan from MANPADS fire. This pepelats has already been discussed here. I remember with Pupyrchaty came to a consensus that between the shortcomings and the advantages, the balance is somewhere in between. By the way, Hagel promised Israel 17 cars and delivered only six,
                  Currently, the United States conducts an active marketing campaign to promote tiltrotor on the world market. Named, in particular, those countries that are negotiating the sale of Osprey: UAE (intend to purchase 10 devices), Israel (6), Qatar (12), Canada (12 – 15), Japan (6 – 10), Brazil (10). Requests for the provision of information on converters have also been received from the UK, Libya, Italy, India, Singapore and Australia. US Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel has promised Israel 17 convertible plans, although it is not yet clear which Israeli production vehicles will be purchased by the Israelis and when the contract will be signed. At his press conference in Tel Aviv 22 on April, Chuck Hagel announced new shipments of weapons to this state, which include the Osprey V-22 and can make this country the first foreign importer of this type of device. According to the Israeli Air Force Command, convertible planes or convertible aircraft (PLA), a hybrid of an aircraft and a helicopter with turning screws, can completely change the tactics of combat operations in the region. As one of the Israeli pilots who performed familiarization flights on the Osprey tiltrotor in the United States, these devices would be especially useful when performing tasks for evacuating special forces and the wounded, who were deep in the rear of the enemy. In addition, convertiplanes could act very effectively in the interests of the Israeli Navy. The Israeli Air Force commanders recommended that the Defense Ministry leadership purchase a V-22 batch, including several convertible plans for special operations, and also lease six to eight ground forces vehicles.

                  link
                  1. Alex 241
                    Alex 241 17 January 2014 00: 04 New
                    +1
                    As far as I know, there were no casualties from fire from the ground, as for security: all important systems are spaced apart to reduce the likelihood of their destruction by one ammunition;
                    armored seats crew and personnel;

                    propeller blades are made of composite materials;

                    the cabin and cargo compartment are equipped with a powerful ventilation and pressurization system to prevent WMD, combustion products and other harmful substances from entering them;

                    the system of electromagnetic protection of the main electric circuits against induced current pulses that occur when lightning strikes or conduct nuclear explosions in the area of ​​the aircraft is applied;

                    heavy structural elements, such as engines and gearboxes, are located at the maximum distance from the crew to prevent injuries in the event of an emergency landing;

                    reinforced the design of the bow of the fuselage and the cockpit to prevent injuries and death of the crew during the destruction of the aircraft. The cabin saves 85 percent. its volume when falling from a height of 20 m, the nose cone can absorb energy that occurs when it hits the surface at a speed of up to 120 km / h;

                    the chassis completely absorb energy in a collision with the surface at a speed of up to 30 km / h;

                    the wing and propeller blades are designed in such a way that they do not cause damage to the cabs, during an emergency landing, for example, when touching the surface with gondolas turned horizontally, the fragments of the blades fly apart from the fuselage;

                    cargo securing system withstands normal overloads from -5 to +16 g and tangential up to + 10 g;

                    after splashdown, the aircraft can maintain buoyancy for almost 10 minutes with a sea wave of 5 points. It was planned to install the fuselage cannon systems Remote Guardian System (RGS)
                    1. Alex 241
                      Alex 241 17 January 2014 00: 29 New
                      +2
                      Serial Number Number MV-22 Mishap Date Description of the failure class
                      163914 04 July 20, 1992 Reportedly test aircraft crashed under Quantico VA; 4 died
                      163915 05 June 11, 1991 Reportedly, the test plane crashed on the runway; ( Photo )
                      164942 10 February 12, 2003 It is not reported that the aircraft tests overestimate (photo); scrapping
                      165433 11 April 8, 2000 Not reportedly hard landing on Marana, Arizona; scrapping 04 April 6
                      165434 12 Unknown Not reported, scrapping 02 October 7
                      165436 14 April 8, 2000 reportedly crashed after rolling over on Marana, Arizona, 19 were killed
                      165437 15 Unknown Not reported; overestimate; GIA in New River, North Carolina; Photo
                      165438 16 Unknown Not reported; overestimate the GIA in New River, North Carolina; Photo
                      165439 17 Unknown Not reported; overestimate; scrapping September 13, 2004
                      165440 18 December 11, 2000 Reportedly crashed near New River, North Carolina, 4 killed
                      165441 19 Unknown Not reported; overestimate; GIA in Pensacola FL
                      165442 20 Unknown Not reported; overestimate; store at NAVAIRSYSCOM
                      165844 30 April 11, 2012 Reportedly crashed in Morocco; two dead
                      165948 49 November 6, 2007 Reported in-flight engine fire; badly damaged; kept by New River, North Carolina
                      166385 53 March 28, 2005 Inappropriate as a Class B; hydraulic / fire truck on the New River, North Carolina
                      166388 55 21Aug 2007 Inappropriate as class B; bow wheel crash during an emergency landing in Yuma, Arizona
                      166389 56 March 27, 2006 Inadequately as a basis for failure; Scrap 14Jul09.
                      166390 57 December 7, 2006 Inappropriate as class B; fire damage; store at New River, North Carolina
                      166480 59 July 10, 2006 Inappropriate as class B; engine destroyed compressor stalls; emergency landing in Iceland
                      166735 100 June 21, 2013 Reportedly destroyed by fire
                      Unknown Unknown June 21, 2008 Inappropriate as a Class B; the engine decayed during the flight; emergency landing in Jordan.
                      167902 113 July 11, 2011 Reported but not taken into account in Okinawa's report; sailor killed cargo while in flight, Afghanistan
                      167910 121 May 2009 Inappropriate as class B; engine grip and fire while in flight
                      Unknown Unknown July 9, 2012 Cross-shaft failure required emergency landing at Wilmington NC
                      Unknown Unknown 2013 Not reported, accident landing in Afghanistan
                      168241 191 August 26, 2013 Reportedly destroyed after fire and hard landing.
                      1. Ascetic
                        Ascetic 17 January 2014 01: 02 New
                        +1
                        Yes, it’s about 200 vehicles for 20 accidents since the beginning of operation. But for example, MI-26 accidents and casualties, there were a total of 18 (since 1985, a total of 310 pieces were made.), Especially the terrible accident in Chechnya in August 2002 after the defeat MANPADS Needle.
                        the rocket hit the right engine of the helicopter, while the left engine was simultaneously out of order. A fire broke out in the helicopter, hydraulic systems and helicopter control systems failed, and burning fuel penetrated the cargo compartment, which led to thermal damage to passengers on board. The helicopter was landed on autorotation, but 119 people out of 152 on board died in the fire. Those in the middle of the passenger compartment were crushed by a collapsed burning engine. Among the survivors - five crew members

                        link
                      2. Alex 241
                        Alex 241 17 January 2014 01: 06 New
                        0
                        Stanislav follow the link that he posted for Zhenya, there are also links there, they are highlighted in blue. Something is wrong in the Kingdom of Denmark!
                      3. Ascetic
                        Ascetic 17 January 2014 01: 31 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Alex 241
                        Stanislav follow the link that he posted for Zhenya, there are also links there, they are highlighted in blue. Something is wrong in the Kingdom of Denmark!


                        Somewhere I’ve already read something similar in Russian. Because the Americans are vigorously drawing it in to everyone as having no analogues,
                        The Torment of Osprey
                        According to the official publication of the Israeli Air Force IAF Magazine, two pilots - Lieutenant Colonels Nimrod and Avi - arrived in the United States in December 2012 to conduct Osprey appraisal flights. While testing American convertiplanes, the pilots found a number of shortcomings. According to Avi, the pilot of the CH-53D Sea Stallion transport helicopter, in flight, the tiltrotor is capable of quickly and dramatically gaining speed, which somewhat complicates control. “The pilot uses a control stick and a system similar to a traction control device. In one mode (helicopter mode), the control knob is responsible for altitude, and “thrust” for speed. In another mode (airplane mode), they change roles. In the transition mode, it feels as if you are losing control, ”Avi said.
                        The American consortium Bell-Boeing explained that it is necessary to get used to managing a tiltrotor in transit, it is not dangerous, and all the necessary skills are quickly acquired as you gain experience.
                        The Israelis tried the convertiplanes: on the C grade
                      4. The comment was deleted.
            2. Pimply
              Pimply 17 January 2014 00: 33 New
              +1
              There will certainly be an option, at first the cars will operate, they won’t throw so much money right away
              1. Alex 241
                Alex 241 17 January 2014 00: 34 New
                0
                Read Zhen, I have somehow reduced enthusiasm! http://www.g2mil.com/V-22Amishaps.htm
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 17 January 2014 00: 53 New
                  0
                  http://www.g2mil.com/V-22safety.htm
                2. bask
                  bask 17 January 2014 01: 25 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Alex 241
                  I have somehow reduced enthusiasm

                  Sash.
                  When new technologies are developed and implemented, it is always GUT.
                  We Russia, we must offer something of their own.
                  But for now, there is nothing.
                  We will watch and read about yankerskaya.
                  Airplanes and helicopters (in my words Mikoyan) if beautifully made, it means beautiful and they fly.
                  клик
                3. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 17 January 2014 01: 29 New
                  +1
                  Quote: bask
                  in my words Mikoyan
                  Hi Andryush, these are the words of Tupolev, I don’t argue with a beautiful car, but in the ideology itself there are so many contradictions, not a plane, not a helicopter.
  2. zanoza
    zanoza 16 January 2014 16: 40 New
    +4
    "This is a helicopter; it is not a priori a tiltrotor."
    atalef. I am not talking about this.
    Quote: atalef
    ... remotely (outwardly) resembling a convertiplane, helicopter MI-12(NATO classification) ...

    Here's what I said: MI-12 HELICOPTER. Understand the meaning of words atalef
  3. viktor_ui
    viktor_ui 16 January 2014 17: 46 New
    +3
    atalef - maybe someone is just trying to compare the hell with a finger ... at the same time confessing the minimum similarity of machines? Once again, for me it will be convinced that a toad strangles a certain cohort of speakers drinks
  • mirag2
    mirag2 16 January 2014 18: 36 New
    +2
    They have long been working in combat conditions.
  • Saboteur
    Saboteur 17 January 2014 08: 11 New
    0
    Osprey have long been flying in Afghanistan. Battle experience is already there
  • Saboteur
    Saboteur 17 January 2014 08: 11 New
    0
    Osprey have long been flying in Afghanistan. Battle experience is already there
  • Sanyl
    Sanyl 16 January 2014 12: 21 New
    +4
    why persuade? The article also says that the supply in the framework of American military assistance to Israel. Those. free for Israel. Another budget cut due to the growth of public debt.
    1. Vasek
      Vasek 16 January 2014 21: 36 New
      0
      Quote: Sanyl
      why persuade? The article also says that the supply in the framework of American military assistance to Israel. Those. for Israel free. Another budget cut due to the growth of public debt.


      I am sure that it is not free.
      They call any loan at the most draconian interest "help".
      Recall at least a Lend-Lease or Marshall Plan: we help you, but do not forget to calculate! lol hi
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 17 January 2014 00: 34 New
      +1
      Which is free. Influence, technology, and even Israel Sinai gave to Egypt. There is no free breakfast
  • smel
    smel 16 January 2014 13: 50 New
    0
    Zhi (I'm sorry) Jews will get them for free - under the program of American assistance
    1. klimpopov
      klimpopov 16 January 2014 13: 56 New
      0
      Americans free then Jews will not give anything)))))))
  • Luzhichanin
    Luzhichanin 16 January 2014 14: 00 New
    +1
    Somebody?! moves convertiplane technology ... in view of the prospects ?! use of dual-mode flight, take-off and hovering in a helicopter, fast movement - in hypersound ...
    But today there is not only hypersound, but also tolerable supersonic, in this regard gyroplanes and ekranoplanes will be both cheaper and safer ...
    Only now, these technologies were mainly developed in the USSR, although now in places in Russia, mainly on sheer enthusiasm. But the further development of these technologies is hampered by financial pressure, especially gyros.
  • Gluxar_
    Gluxar_ 16 January 2014 16: 23 New
    0
    Quote: evgenii67
    "The estimated cost of delivery through Foreign Military Sales (FMS) will be $ 1,13 billion" for 6 "turntables", even if unusual, this is more than $ 180 mln. And how did the Americans persuade the Jews?

    The price is just fantastic, but the bucket itself is somehow rusty.
    Who can explain to me what kind of beast it is and why the Americans are so desperately trying to sell it that they advertise in all the media? How safe is it in operation and expensive to maintain? Only in 2013, two such turntables burned down, despite the fact that several dozen of them were operated. What is their accident rate?
    This freak Osprey costs ten times more expensive than our Mi-8/171, but what is it better than the price? The mass of the transported cargo is almost the same, the same amount of passengers is transported, the dynamic ceiling is the same, the osprey’s combat radius is only 100 km more, cruising speed is 400 km / h versus 240 km / h with Mi. Speed ​​indicators of course vary greatly, but they do not give a fundamental tactical advantage. If we compare the cost of operation and maintenance ...
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 16 January 2014 16: 40 New
      -1
      Quote: Gluxar_
      This freak Osprey costs ten times more expensive than our Mi-8/171, but what is it better than the price

      The fact that it is not a helicopter. This is a different type of car.
      1. Gluxar_
        Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 01: 07 New
        0
        Quote: Pimply
        The fact that it is not a helicopter. This is a different type of car.

        I understand it. But still...
        Now, honestly, is this car worth so many conversations about itself?
        Well, what does she give the troops? Or at least special forces?
    2. Windbreak
      Windbreak 16 January 2014 16: 40 New
      +4
      Quote: Gluxar_
      combat radius osprey only 100 km more
      the maximum range Mi-8
  • chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 16 January 2014 16: 52 New
    +3
    Quote: evgenii67
    And how did the Americans persuade the Jews?

    This is in the humor section, "the delivery will be financed at the expense of American military assistance to Israel." The Americans "sell" them at their own expense to the Jews.
  • Saboteur
    Saboteur 17 January 2014 08: 04 New
    0
    You also need to be persuaded to help?
  • kelevra
    kelevra 16 January 2014 11: 56 New
    -8
    These cars are very vulnerable! I don’t understand why Israel bought them. Hamas will shoot them down from its territory with ordinary RPGs!
    1. nazgul-ishe
      nazgul-ishe 16 January 2014 12: 00 New
      0
      This is a must see.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Pimply
      Pimply 16 January 2014 12: 27 New
      +4
      Quote: kelevra
      These cars are very vulnerable! I don’t understand why Israel bought them. Hamas will shoot them down from its territory with ordinary RPGs!

      Of course of course
    4. Vasia kruger
      Vasia kruger 16 January 2014 13: 00 New
      +1
      Quote: kelevra
      These cars are very vulnerable! I don’t understand why Israel bought them. Hamas will shoot them down from its territory with ordinary RPGs!


      Why?
    5. The comment was deleted.
    6. atalef
      atalef 16 January 2014 14: 48 New
      +5
      Quote: kelevra
      These cars are very vulnerable! I don’t understand why Israel bought them. Hamas will shoot them down from its territory with ordinary RPGs!

      Why spend RPGs, get knocked off a slingshot.
    7. leon-iv
      leon-iv 16 January 2014 14: 52 New
      +10
      And let me give you an RPG and you will get into a tank moving along the road, well, for the sake of interest.
      Although Osprey is still a miracle in feathers, but to shoot down aircraft from RPGs is idiocy worthy of computer games.
  • Christian
    Christian 16 January 2014 11: 56 New
    +1
    US supplies fascist Israeli regime for free.
    1. ReifA
      ReifA 16 January 2014 12: 15 New
      +1
      You forgot to mention matzo and blood.
    2. Far East
      Far East 16 January 2014 12: 51 New
      +1
      Quote: Christian
      US supplies fascist Israeli regime for free.

      Well, yes, they threw a bone! let them know who the boss is! only the "booth" is not enough! then in and look, they will soon lower them from the leash! wassat
    3. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 16 January 2014 13: 48 New
      +3
      Quote: Christian
      US supplies fascist Israeli regime for free.

      Captain inadequacy fellow I see that you simply physically cannot go past an article mentioning Israel, a painful addiction is direct some sort of, like a dose to an addict laughing
      1. Christian
        Christian 16 January 2014 14: 58 New
        -1
        Merry Christmas! (I was a little mistaken, I am the senior lieutenant of the reserve, but in case of a call in wartime, yes, immediately the captain!).
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. atalef
          atalef 16 January 2014 15: 01 New
          +1
          Quote: Christian
          Merry Christmas! (A little wrong - I'm the senior lieutenant of the reserve

          My life !!!!!!!
        3. ReifA
          ReifA 16 January 2014 15: 26 New
          0
          Have you finished celebrating the New Year? Maybe it’s time for the pohmelizzo? :-)
      2. mirag2
        mirag2 16 January 2014 18: 39 New
        +3
        Just like you with only a different attitude.
  • itr
    itr 16 January 2014 11: 56 New
    0
    yes given a loan most likely
  • nazgul-ishe
    nazgul-ishe 16 January 2014 12: 05 New
    +3
    Why blame something that has not yet been used in a combat situation. Special equipment for the marine corps.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 16 January 2014 12: 28 New
      0
      Afghan, as far as I remember
      1. leon-iv
        leon-iv 16 January 2014 14: 57 New
        +3
        Yeah, and all the problems were mainly with the mat part from the penetration of the marksman.
        1. igor67
          igor67 16 January 2014 15: 02 New
          +5
          Quote: leon-iv
          Yeah, and all the problems were mainly with the mat part from the penetration of the marksman.

          Hi, my friend, during our Afghan "company", I just started work on repairing the Mi 6, the bottom in the cars changed 100%, due to the penetration of small arms, it was a sieve.
          1. leon-iv
            leon-iv 16 January 2014 15: 12 New
            +7
            Hi, here I read about Africa so ours (Russians and Ukrainians) from the UN mission are steadily bringing over a couple of marks for the flight. And recently, the Mi-24 was contracted for evacuation of smallpox from the EMNIP CAR. And in my opinion one crashed on the spot.
            1. igor67
              igor67 16 January 2014 15: 20 New
              +2
              Quote: leon-iv
              Hi, here I read about Africa so ours (Russians and Ukrainians) from the UN mission are steadily bringing over a couple of marks for the flight. And recently, the Mi-24 was contracted for evacuation of smallpox from the EMNIP CAR. And in my opinion one crashed on the spot.

              The car is still interesting, but for Israel with its limited territory, the necessary car, all the same, Soviet (Russian) turntables will not be clear for what reasons (avionics do not count, it’s still set), but I want to see it from the technical side. Mi 24 are part of the UN forces, they are required to accompany such operations
              1. Alex 241
                Alex 241 16 January 2014 15: 26 New
                +8
                Igor, from the point of view of the idea, it’s interesting, but from the point of view of a technical solution .......... the weak point is the imbalance of engine thrust, and here, as they say, without options!
                1. igor67
                  igor67 16 January 2014 15: 35 New
                  -3
                  [quote = alex 241] Igor, from the point of view of the idea is interesting, but from the point of view of a technical solution .......... the weak point is the imbalance of engine thrust, and here, as they say without options, Hello Sanya, well, this in the beginning, you know how many cars crashed at the beginning of the development of jet aircraft in the USSR and the West, they’ll bring it, in theory there should be a sensor responsible for the distribution of revolutions in the engines, so that this situation does not arise, this is not a spinner
                  1. leon-iv
                    leon-iv 16 January 2014 15: 38 New
                    +1
                    Oga, and how this miracle will sit on autorotation.
                    1. igor67
                      igor67 16 January 2014 15: 50 New
                      +1
                      Quote: leon-iv
                      Oga, and how this miracle will sit on autorotation.

                      I wrote that this is not a spinner
                      1. leon-iv
                        leon-iv 16 January 2014 15: 53 New
                        0
                        Oga, and imagine that it gets MANPADS
                      2. leon-iv
                        leon-iv 16 January 2014 15: 53 New
                        0
                        Oga, and imagine that it gets MANPADS
                      3. igor67
                        igor67 16 January 2014 16: 20 New
                        +2
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        Oga, and imagine that it gets MANPADS

                        The question is complicated, but where will it get? A simple example came to repair 24ka from Afghanistan when Stinger’s MANPADS got into the radio compartment, of course, to all the appliances there were faucets, the hatch was riveted with nails, the whole transmission or repaired, but the car under its own power to repair to Ukraine,
                      4. leon-iv
                        leon-iv 16 January 2014 16: 23 New
                        +3
                        I'm talking about getting into the engine. Tk is the most heated part.
                        And about the combat survivability of the Mi-24, legends go. One Calypso is worth it.
                      5. igor67
                        igor67 16 January 2014 16: 30 New
                        +3
                        Quote: leon-iv
                        I'm talking about getting into the engine. Tk is the most heated part.
                        And about the combat survivability of the Mi-24, legends go. One Calypso is worth it.

                        Into the engine, then from the cubes They will collect the word happiness laughing
                      6. Pimply
                        Pimply 16 January 2014 16: 36 New
                        0
                        Are we talking about canceling helicopters? Are they suddenly gone?
                        Helicopters for their tasks, Osprey for their own. It is not necessary to imagine that all helicopters were suddenly replaced by Osprey. Or do you propose to abandon planes and drones due to the lack of autorotation?
                      7. igor67
                        igor67 16 January 2014 16: 45 New
                        +3
                        Quote: Pimply
                        Are we talking about canceling helicopters? Are they suddenly gone?
                        Helicopters for their tasks, Osprey for their own. It is not necessary to imagine that all helicopters were suddenly replaced by Osprey. Or do you propose to abandon planes and drones due to the lack of autorotation?

                        No, Zhenya is not going to refuse anyone, just the MI 30 circuit seems to me more reliable
                      8. Pimply
                        Pimply 16 January 2014 16: 48 New
                        0
                        Maybe not argue
                      9. yehat
                        yehat 16 January 2014 17: 27 New
                        +4
                        more reliable than what? Americans used Osprey for direct infantry support; they usually held light fire. This is not an attack helicopter, but a transport one.
                        As for the savings - the benefits in comparison with the helicopter are obvious.
                        In addition, the size of the osprey is related to the size of a conventional infantry squad. Do we have so many Mi-24s? No! A few cars will carry him. And this is not so good.
                        For specific tasks, Osprey is a perfectly suitable machine.
                      10. Vasek
                        Vasek 16 January 2014 21: 54 New
                        +1
                        Quote: yehat
                        In addition, the size of the osprey is related to the size of a conventional infantry squad. Do we have so many Mi-24s? No! A few cars will carry him.


                        Sorry, I'm not a helicopter pilot, but I remember that there are eight foot soldiers in the motorized rifle division.
                        Is it really so problematic to find a place for 8-10 people in a helicopter? (I don't mean specialized percussion machines.)
                      11. Gluxar_
                        Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 01: 24 New
                        0
                        Quote: yehat
                        more reliable than what? Americans used Osprey for direct infantry support; they usually held light fire. This is not an attack helicopter, but a transport one.
                        As for the savings - the benefits in comparison with the helicopter are obvious.
                        In addition, the size of the osprey is related to the size of a conventional infantry squad. Do we have so many Mi-24s? No! A few cars will carry him. And this is not so good.
                        For specific tasks, Osprey is a perfectly suitable machine.

                        Saving money? What are you talking about ? How much does an Osprey flight cost? The machine is two times heavier than the Mi-8, and equal in capacity and carrying capacity. Only on the eight also have weapons to support the infantry. So, together with the osprey, do you also need to send fire support helicopters, and by their characteristics they will chase after the osprey? and How much will such a joint departure cost?
                        That is, "theoretically" the potential of the car seems to be there ... but in practice, again, "delirium".
                    2. The comment was deleted.
                  2. Aaron Zawi
                    Aaron Zawi 16 January 2014 18: 13 New
                    +4
                    "Osprey" is necessary for this economy.
                    A new unit for planning and conducting operations "in the depths of enemy territory" has been created in the IDF. This was announced on Thursday, 15 December, Chief of the General Staff of Israel Beni Ganz.
                    The new unit will be headed by reserve general Shai Avital, who in the past commanded the elite special forces Saeret Matkal.
                    The Mako website reports that Shay Avital has returned to active duty to lead a new unit, which will be responsible, inter alia, for preventing arms smuggling from Iran into southern Lebanon and the Gaza Strip. The new unit will include about 100 officers.
                    The Ynet website notes that the new unit is a belated response to the report of the Vinograd commission investigating the miscalculations of the Israeli army during the Second Lebanon War.
                    And for what and why they lack "Yasurov", only they know.
                  3. Gluxar_
                    Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 01: 18 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Pimply
                    Are we talking about canceling helicopters? Are they suddenly gone?
                    Helicopters for their tasks, Osprey for their own. It is not necessary to imagine that all helicopters were suddenly replaced by Osprey. Or do you propose to abandon planes and drones due to the lack of autorotation?

                    Is it advisable to finance two developments? More than 50 billion have already rolled up in these osprey. For this money, it would be possible to create industry in Somalia and to solve all the economic problems of almost half of Africa. Then "special operations" against terrorists would not be needed.
      2. leon-iv
        leon-iv 16 January 2014 15: 38 New
        0
        Oga, and how this miracle will sit on autorotation.
        1. igor67
          igor67 16 January 2014 16: 13 New
          -2
          Quote: leon-iv
          Oga, and how this miracle will sit on autorotation.

          I don’t know, I just thought how possible, and it turned out there was a Mi30 project, engines on a glider, transmission through a transmission, as in a turntable
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 16 January 2014 17: 37 New
          -3
          By the way, it will still be.
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 16 January 2014 16: 34 New
      0
      Hi Sasha. As far as I remember, they increased reliability in this regard
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 16 January 2014 16: 52 New
        +1
        Hi Zhen, I know, but there are problems with hydraulics, with software too.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 16 January 2014 17: 11 New
          -1
          There is. But each aircraft has its own glitches. Well, they are actively working on the osprey
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 16 January 2014 17: 14 New
            +3
            Zhenya, and with the "vortex ring" mode, there are more problems than the "turntables"
          2. Pimply
            Pimply 16 January 2014 17: 26 New
            -1
            Quote: Alex 241
            Zhenya, and with the "vortex ring" mode, there are more problems than the "turntables"

            I don’t argue, Sasha. But therefore, they conducted an increased number of tests, and as a result, just with this, there were no special problems with the device. That is, one of the 4 disasters was associated with this, but there is a controversial situation. After the accident, the vertical speed of descent for the Osprey VTOL was limited to 240 m / min at a translational speed of not more than 70 km / h (a limitation typical for helicopters). And since then no significant problems have arisen with this.
  • leon-iv
    leon-iv 16 January 2014 15: 30 New
    +1
    The car is still interesting

    And I do not deny that it is interesting as an ekranoplan. But here again I repeat why we need it. With its combat resilience?
    Mi 24 are part of the UN forces, they are required to accompany such operations

    There, it’s just that the Americans were infuriating some country because they provided them with cover.
    1. igor67
      igor67 16 January 2014 15: 45 New
      +1
      Quote: leon-iv
      The car is still interesting

      And I do not deny that it is interesting as an ekranoplan. But here again I repeat why we need it. With its combat resilience?
      Mi 24 are part of the UN forces, they are required to accompany such operations

      There, it’s just that the Americans were infuriating some country because they provided them with cover.

      It’s interesting that a lot of interesting things are happening in Africa now, I think in more than BV, only information and video materials are not enough, the war for Africa is not weak
      1. leon-iv
        leon-iv 16 January 2014 15: 52 New
        +3
        Hohoho left the white man. They finished off the entire infrastructure, but I’d like to eat and are fighting. The black continent is aflame again.
        For example, the CARs of France have been involved in the full program there. Already 2 thousand soldiers are there. And blacks (Christians vs musliks) continue enthusiastically cutting each other.
        It’s a pity that Europe is liberal right now and there isn’t that generation of “shaved backs” that were in the 60-80s.
        1. leon-iv
          leon-iv 16 January 2014 16: 05 New
          0
          Although no, not everyone has lost weight

          Chevron is written
          "Meine Ehre heist treue" "my honor is fidelity" - SS motto
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • Gluxar_
    Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 01: 14 New
    0
    Quote: igor67
    The car is still interesting, but for Israel with its limited territory, the necessary car, all the same, Soviet (Russian) turntables will not be clear for what reasons (avionics do not count, it’s still set), but I want to see it from the technical side. Mi 24 are part of the UN forces, they are required to accompany such operations

    Any car is interesting from the point of view of an engineer. But through movies and video games some supernatural utility of these machines is imposed. And what is the essence or tactical advantage of such a “turntable”? That 6 cars can deliver 120 fighters to a distance of 700 km? For a PMC special operation, this is good, but for the state ... and investing 1,2 billion in 6 cars is still very expensive.
  • Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 16 January 2014 20: 00 New
    0
    Quote: igor67
    I just started work with Mi 6 repair,

    Helicopter pilots, and you do not happen to know what kind of rumors that pendes allegedly opened a large training center on our turntables? hi
  • Russ69
    Russ69 16 January 2014 12: 18 New
    +2
    The device, in principle, is not bad, but expensive ....
  • svp67
    svp67 16 January 2014 12: 25 New
    +1
    Well, soon "light up ...."
  • pensioner
    pensioner 16 January 2014 12: 33 New
    +5
    Happily fly fellow Jews !:
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 16 January 2014 16: 37 New
      -2
      Quote: retired
      Happily fly fellow Jews !:

      AND? Are you surprised that the equipment is falling? And what if there are pictures of fallen planes or helicopters here? This is the first such car in its class, and yes, it has childhood diseases. Most of which the Americans quite successfully managed to get rid of
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 16 January 2014 20: 03 New
        +4
        Quote: Pimply
        Most of which the Americans quite successfully managed to get rid of

        Well, in the experience of F35 we know this. laughing
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 17 January 2014 00: 36 New
          +1
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Well, in the experience of F35 we know this.

          The F-35 has already flown a hundred boards of a small series. And they successfully get rid of jambs. The fact that you do not hear about the jambs of the T-50 does not mean that they are not. Just a different level of attitude to information
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi 16 January 2014 23: 20 New
          +1
          Feel better? Then another glass and bainki. lol
          1. pensioner
            pensioner 18 January 2014 02: 00 New
            -2
            I followed your advice! True, in your case, a glass was not enough ... To compensate for the harm from communicating with Israel
            children need 1000ml ... Schaub nasty disappeared ...
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 18 January 2014 02: 30 New
              +1
              Are you the stereotypes about Russian support? Forward to cirrhosis?
        2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Gluxar_
        Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 01: 34 New
        +1
        Quote: Pimply
        AND? Are you surprised that the equipment is falling? And what if there are pictures of fallen planes or helicopters here? This is the first such car in its class, and yes, it has childhood diseases. Most of which the Americans quite successfully managed to get rid of

        This does not surprise anyone. But the situation turns out, they just taught the child to ride a bike so that he does not fall. So the next day he picks up a skate in his hands ...
        And now, is everything in the US okay to create new “childhood diseases” or does it still make sense to solve economic problems, reduce excess mouths so as not to go bankrupt?
        Theoretically, such a class of cars is needed, about this back in the 80s films and series were shot, such as "blue thunder." However, in the United States over the past 10 years there have already been several super expensive and failed military programs. This is F-22 / F-35 gold coffins that do not fight. These are the “ships of the coastal zone” with a speed of 50 knots, but only without excitement more than 3 points. These are the disputes at $ 200 million apiece ... And flying lasers, and missile defense that do not hit their slowly soaring targets, and magnetic guns with two power plants for charging ...

        Maybe the public should say something to the American warriors besides sighing from their seats when watching the “next transformers,” where the brave supermen jump from the ospreys?
  • Roman 1977
    Roman 1977 16 January 2014 12: 39 New
    +5
    The Americans have already flown ...
    The Western Internet got around this picture of an American marine with a cigarette and a can of energy at the background of the fallen Osprey in Afghanistan, which he made on his cell phone and posted it on the net:
    “We flew for several months to the Ospreyi missions, they constantly had hydraulics leaking, so we’ve got used to it. This time the crew commander also said OK and we flew. The flight stopped somewhere in the middle of the planned 45 minutes - there was a strong pop , then the propellers got up, the flight to the night, from the outside it wasn’t visible from what height we fell. They landed on the ledge, the whole body howled from the blow. The rear ramp was blocked, we had to climb through the right hatch arrow.
    Took up defense, shelling began in 10 minutes. The crew of the Osprey almost immediately took another helicopter - and we thought that "the captain was the last to leave his ship." We were ordered to guard the unit.
    About a week he was dismantled and taken away. Well, that we were supported by tankers and infantry. "

    http://nosikot.livejournal.com/1257958.html

    1. RUSS
      RUSS 16 January 2014 13: 20 New
      +5
      While aircraft will be heavier than air and ships heavier than water, some will continue to fall while others will sink.
  • rodiy2007
    rodiy2007 16 January 2014 12: 49 New
    +4
    Whatever anyone says, but the car turned out very good. We also tried to create cars of this class, but somehow it did not work out!
  • VADEL
    VADEL 16 January 2014 13: 20 New
    +3
    I like this device, BUT I would not fly on it. recourse laughing
  • svoi
    svoi 16 January 2014 13: 37 New
    +4
    The machine is interesting, I think the next step in helicopter engineering will survive the growing pains, there, you see - the price tag will drop to the level of sanity.
    1. yehat
      yehat 16 January 2014 14: 19 New
      +1
      it’s not a growth disease. The F-16 is far from a revolutionary aircraft and is very massive at such rates that one bolted bolt there costs about $ 20.
      Therefore, these are the final price tags.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • Rustam
    Rustam 16 January 2014 14: 34 New
    +13
    yehat Therefore, these are the final price tags.


    The contract in the package, through the FMS line, it includes all services, training, supply of spare engines, etc. This is not the price of airplanes per se.



    ps-According to Osprey, first create something like that, run it in a series, and then say what kind of g_
    , it’s right if we did this, it would be a product that has no analogues in the world!
    1. leon-iv
      leon-iv 16 January 2014 15: 00 New
      +3
      This is understandable, but where to shove it? What tactical niche of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation?
    2. leon-iv
      leon-iv 16 January 2014 15: 00 New
      0
      This is understandable, but where to shove it? What tactical niche of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation?
      1. Rustam
        Rustam 16 January 2014 15: 17 New
        +3
        leon-iv where to shove it? What tactical niche of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation?


        Airborne and Marine Corps
        1. leon-iv
          leon-iv 16 January 2014 15: 27 New
          +2
          And where is this miracle to them more precisely, what should they do with it.
          In the DShB?
          Transporter? It pulls a little more than the Mi-8 of old models on the new ones is about the same. He wins greatly in range. BUT whether we need to transfer to such a range. And also it needs to be covered and than with turntables or planes? And the turntables are more relevant here, but they don’t have that speed.
          Drummer well, this is generally beyond the scope of his scheme.
          + We do not have the cost of a flight hour (real)

          KMK is more interesting to work on a high-speed helicopter or gyroplane.
          1. Rustam
            Rustam 16 January 2014 15: 36 New
            +1
            leon-iv
            And where is this miracle to them more precisely, what should they do with it.
            In the DShB?


            Miracle? Well, take it easy, I would like for us to have such a miracle in the series

            -Airborne Forces - for lightning-fast deployment of units to a given area, another question is that the Airborne Forces also need their own transport helicopters and attack helicopters.

            -Marines -Same
            1. leon-iv
              leon-iv 16 January 2014 15: 47 New
              +4
              Miracle? Well, take it easy, I would like for us to have such a miracle in the series

              But not me. On this subject, I had a conversation just the same with a hobby colleague from the Airborne Forces of our Ivanovsky on the topic of convertiplanes. So there they have nothing to carry, for example. For drugs there are planes and helicopters attached. Yes, the lightning speed of the Airborne Forces is provided by the VTA. But again we return to the topic of landing cover. For while Osprey flies in the area not saturated with MANPADS from the Afghans (the best air defense they have is the DShK, although the Americans say they already intercepted MANPADS from Libya), what will happen to him after the engine is damaged or it stops? And here are examples of the turntable when she was sitting on the autorotation car and a small cart with a trailer.
              1. Rustam
                Rustam 16 January 2014 16: 14 New
                +2
                leon-iv And I do not.


                This is your position, my other — for this we are talking — to come to some denominator.

                Believe me, if we had such a thing, he would have found a place in the structure of the Armed Forces, since such an apparatus would not be expected to speak if it were then, although we analyzed the possible use in our army.

                According to the airborne forces, they would have got their own helicopters - although Shamanov had recently held talks with representatives of the Russian Helicopters - although he could have seen something in the west

                our then it is clear what they can offer

                - shock mi-35m, MI-28N, KA-52
                - transport mi-8mvt-5 or amtsh
                1. leon-iv
                  leon-iv 16 January 2014 16: 21 New
                  0
                  According to the airborne forces, they would have got their own helicopters - although Shamanov had recently held talks with representatives of the Russian Helicopters - although he could have seen something in the west

                  our then it is clear what they can offer

                  - shock mi-35m, MI-28N, KA-52
                  - transport mi-8mvt-5 or amtsh

                  FOR THE VDV I don’t argue they need turntables like air. BUT about the drummers, I'm not quite sure of their necessity. As well as the timing and methods of transfer to the theater, BTA?
                  And as for the place, they managed to adopt the ekranoplanes. Although he was of no use to them, like from drummers and transporters like from a goat of milk.
            2. bask
              bask 16 January 2014 17: 15 New
              +3
              Quote: Rustam
              Miracle? Well, take it easy, I would like for us to have such a miracle in the series

              Quote: Rustam
              -Marines -Same

              Rustam. hi
              Interesting car.
              BDK ,, Mistral ,,, purchased (immediately there were questions about what to equip) here are the convertiplanes, just for these ships.But of course, turntables, both percussion and multipurpose, transport.

              Marines in the Russian army should become together with the Airborne Forces, an elite strike force.
              And for this we need modern technology.
              клик
              1. Rustam
                Rustam 16 January 2014 17: 36 New
                +2
                bask Marines in the Russian army should become together with the Airborne Forces, an elite strike force


                So far, the least attention has been paid to the Marine Corps, and the current armament cannot be called a crowbar. Now, with the arrival of our UDC, will the equipment situation change?

                Д
                To ,, Mistral ,,, purchased (at once questions arose what to equip) here are the tiltrotopes, just for these ships. But of course the turntables, both percussion and multipurpose, are transport ones.


                Yes, according to the UDC, I thought, but in width it will crawl, we must seeotya what to watch if we don’t have this!

                The problem with the transporter and training is acute, for ka-52 it is clear, but for the transporters silence is what causes concern
                - there is no movement from the side of the Navy and time goes by and the boat is built
                - there’s no talk from helicopters of Russia and Kumertau, but if the same ka-28, for example (new), then we must order
                Or are they going to row along the fleets and get used KA-27? In general, there is a problem.

                ps-I certainly would like to have such an NH90 (in the naval and amphibious versions) but this is a dream, there is no Taburetkin (he could make such a decision) and these depend on the lobbyists of our defense industry
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 16 January 2014 23: 38 New
                  +1
                  .................................................. .........
            3. Gluxar_
              Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 01: 49 New
              0
              Quote: Rustam
              Miracle? Well, take it easy, I would like for us to have such a miracle in the series

              -Airborne Forces - for lightning-fast deployment of units to a given area, another question is that the Airborne Forces also need their own transport helicopters and attack helicopters.

              -Marines -Same

              Airborne need such trash? Like paratroopers and paratroopers that jump from heaven. Jump with armored vehicles. And they fly not 600 km, but wherever they say.

              The only use of such toys is operations of special forces or PMCs. And that is very doubtful.
          2. iwind
            iwind 16 January 2014 16: 44 New
            +4
            Quote: leon-iv
            And where is this miracle to them more precisely, what should they do with it.

            At least for the evacuation of the wounded, it is not uncommon for a difference of 20-30 minutes to be critical for the patient.
            Also, the reinforcement transfer here, too, the faster the better.
        2. Vasek
          Vasek 16 January 2014 22: 09 New
          0
          Quote: Rustam
          leon-iv where to shove it? What tactical niche of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation?

          Airborne and Marine Corps


          Cheaper to hang out. soldier
          There, the Supreme has already mastered. laughing
    3. Gluxar_
      Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 01: 43 New
      0
      Quote: Rustam
      The contract in the package, through the FMS line, it includes all services, training, supply of spare engines, etc. This is not the price of airplanes per se.

      Of course this is a comprehensive contract. But the program alone is already worth $ 52 billion, and 160 units have been built, a couple of dozen of which are already in the landfill.
      And with such calculations, the cost of one car is already 325 million dollars. In some countries, the cost of one such machine is the budget and the program for a whole class of weapons. The same mistral stands as 2-3 Osprey ... think so at your leisure.
      Quote: Rustam
      ps-According to Osprey, first create something like that, run it in a series, and then say what kind of g_
      , it’s right if we did this, it would be a product that has no analogues in the world!

      Already created something like that, 30 years earlier. and having tested it well, we came to the conclusion that the idea is interesting, but not profitable.

      But in the subject
  • Kunar
    Kunar 16 January 2014 14: 48 New
    +1
    And, excuse me, didn’t we have this? belay
    1. atalef
      atalef 16 January 2014 14: 52 New
      +3
      Quote: Kunar
      And, excuse me, didn’t we have this? belay

      Forgiven. Did not have.
      1. avg
        avg 16 January 2014 15: 16 New
        +5
        Quote: atalef
        Forgiven. Did not have

        Do not forget, do not forgive!

        At the end of 1961, the Soviet Ka-22 tiltrotor during the test flight set a record for carrying capacity. This final departure was preceded by a series of flight tests, during which records were set for lifting goods to a height of more than 2000 meters with a cargo weight of 1 to 15 tons. The culmination was the fact that the load was raised at 16, 485 tons to the ceiling up to 2557 meters. Half a century has passed, and the record remains unsurpassed.
        1. Windbreak
          Windbreak 16 January 2014 16: 10 New
          +5
          Quote: avg
          Do not forget, do not forgive!
          Those who mistakenly call the Ka-22 a tiltrotor, not a rotorcraft. "
          When registering the first world records in the International Aviation Federation (FAI), rotorcraft were not divided by take-off weight, and the use of additional propulsion devices was not taken into account, which put the aircraft in unequal conditions. In 1953, the FAI, in accordance with the sports code, developed and approved a new classification of world helicopter records, taking into account the characteristics of rotary-wing vehicles of various schemes. In accordance with this classification, all rotorcraft assigned to class E (classe E - Giravions-Rotor Planes) were divided into four subclasses:
          - E-1 - helicopters;
          E-2 - rotorcraft;
          - E-3 - gyros;
          E-4 - convertiplanes"
          “In a record flight on November 24, 1961, a cargo weighing 16485 kg was lifted to a height of 2588 kg. This made it possible to establish and register seven world records: flight altitudes of 2588 m without cargo and with a load of 1000, 2000, 5000, 10000, and lifting a maximum load of 16485 kg to a height of 2000 m, which have become absolute world records in subclass E-2 for rotorcraft and not surpassed to date. "
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • Kunar
    Kunar 16 January 2014 14: 59 New
    +2
    Sorry, comrades, but I do not agree with the terminology. This is a propeller plane, gyroplane, but not a convertiplane)))
    The screen (aka envelope) plan Lun.And this is sorry shit what
    1. klimpopov
      klimpopov 16 January 2014 15: 06 New
      +3
      I also thought about a gyroplane. But how does this happen? One illiterate reporter said the second copied and everyone picked it up.
      1. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm 16 January 2014 15: 38 New
        +6
        Quote: klimpopov
        I also thought about a gyroplane

        There was a Mi-30 convertiplane project in its purest form
        Mi-30 - a project of the Soviet multi-purpose tiltrotor, developed by the cost center. M.L. Mila under the direction of M.N. Tishchenko in 1972. Inside the design bureau, this design scheme had its own name "propeller". The main task was to provide such parameters of speed and flight range that would exceed the similar parameters of helicopters. The Mi-30 tiltrotor was considered as a replacement for the Mi-8 multipurpose helicopter in the future. As the power plant, it was supposed to use two TV3-117 engines located above the cargo compartment, which were supposed to actuate by means of a transmission two main rotors with a diameter of 11 m each. The estimated flight speed was to be 500 - 600 km / h, flight range - 800 km, take-off weight - 10,6 tons. The Mi-30 in the original project was intended for passenger and freight transportation of 19 passengers or 2 tons of cargo [1]. Subsequently, the carrying capacity was increased to 3-5 tons, and passenger capacity up to 32 people [2].
        1. klimpopov
          klimpopov 16 January 2014 16: 12 New
          +1
          Well, like the top I wrote about him ...
    2. RUSS
      RUSS 16 January 2014 15: 20 New
      +2
      Quote: Kunar
      Sorry, comrades, but I do not agree with the terminology. This is a propeller plane, gyroplane, but not a convertiplane)))
      The screen (aka envelope) plan Lun.And this is sorry shit what

      Once self-propelled strollers were a crap paradox. Maybe OSPRI is damp, but certainly not a dead end branch of development.
      1. Gluxar_
        Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 01: 58 New
        0
        Quote: RUSS
        Once self-propelled strollers were a crap paradox. Maybe OSPRI is damp, but certainly not a dead end branch of development.

        No one says that the idea itself is bad. Always need speed and range, and that without the need for an airfield. But under $ 200 million apiece ...
        Bring to mind, reduce costs and then advertise and sell. No, PR is not clear what and why. When only money is in the interest, cars are made by shit ...
  • Kunar
    Kunar 16 January 2014 15: 03 New
    +1
    And then! 144 paratroopers for 1,13bn. Is so American)))))
  • de bouillon
    de bouillon 16 January 2014 16: 37 New
    0
    by the way

    personnel of the presidential squadron HMX 1.
    In the background are machine parts - CH-46, VH-60N, VH-3D and MV-22B.
  • de bouillon
    de bouillon 16 January 2014 16: 39 New
    +4
    another picture of Osprey

    shines, then shines ..
  • Pimply
    Pimply 16 January 2014 17: 14 New
    +1

    Refuel Osprey
  • Pimply
    Pimply 16 January 2014 17: 18 New
    0
    And this list explains the cost

    16 Rolls Royce AE1107C Engines
    6 AN / APR-39 Radar Warning Receiver Systems
    6 AN / ALE-47 Countermeasure Dispenser Systems
    6 AN / AAR-47 Missile Warning Systems
    6 AN / APX-123 Identification Friend or Foe Systems
    6 AN / ARN-153 Tactical Airborne Navigation Systems
    6 AN / ARN-147 Very High Frequency (VHF) Omni-directional Range (VOR) Instrument Landing System (ILS) Beacon Navigation Systems
    6 Multi-Band Radios
    6 AN / APN-194 Radar Altimeters
    6 AN / ASN-163 Miniature Airborne Global Positioning System (GPS) Receivers (MAGR)
    36 AN / AVS-9 Night Vision Goggles
    Joint Mission Planning System
    support and test equipment
    software,
    repair and return
    aircraft ferry services
    tanker support
    spare and repair parts
    publications and technical documentation
    personnel training and training equipment
    US Government and contractor engineering and technical support
    and other elements of technical and program support
  • polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 16 January 2014 18: 59 New
    +1
    Well, for Jews, if for free, it’s clear, they’ll try to see, drive the Bedouins through the desert. And why do Mikado warriors visit our islands? Or how is the rescue system?
  • Orakyl
    Orakyl 16 January 2014 22: 19 New
    +3
    I read, trying to understand "why the hell is a goat button accordion?" rather, as many as six. So far I have found only one answer: "what would happen"! Or have their states been handed over to Israel like a pawnshop? after all, everyone knows the poor fellow’s problems with the budget, and they’re sucking in to their brothers in arms all trash, at least some penny.
  • Leopold
    Leopold 17 January 2014 09: 28 New
    0
    It was necessary to give a bribe to the Americans in a billion. A common practice is when a thing for 10 million is sold for 110. The goal is apparently lobbying for their interests in Congress.
    A tiltrotor itself is a unique thing, because it allows you to deliver loads of huge weight quickly to the desired area without runway. But certainly it is not worth 112 million. For it has not yet learned to fly into space request .