Military Review

Behind the elections, ahead - rations

245
One of the central Russian themes of the coming 2014 of the year is the introduction of so-called social norms for energy consumption. Regional officials are intensively engaged in calculating how much "normal" families spend kilowatt hours. Some accountants assure citizens that you should not panic: heck The "limit" is not as bad as it is painted. Others explain that they will not have to refuse from kettles and refrigerators. Still others are joking: but they will have to abandon freezers, washing machines and vacuum cleaners. The fourth are annoyed, stomping their feet and reminding the stupid electorate that the state has joined the WTO and, therefore, everything in Russia should cost the same as in the progressive West, including electricity.


Behind the elections, ahead - rations


Well, what about the president? And he, as the media says, at the congress of the All-Russian Popular Front сказалthat it is impossible to hurry with the dissemination of the experiment on social norms for the other utility services and other regions, because there are certain social risks in it. Ordinary and customary demagogy: the mention of “other services” means that soon people will be hit from all directions, and “you can't be in a hurry” means only that in 2013, the government limited itself to experiment, and in 2014, it will finally and irrevocably . The Kremlin will land citizens on elektropayek. Including limits is the right time: elections-2012 are already a bit forgotten, and before elections-2018 is still far away, and by that time people will get used to the norms. In addition, it will be possible to put forward a powerful election slogan to increase the "limit". Convenient, isn't it? The electorate has a short memory.

We will not rewrite what the media has already copied from someone else, but turn to the numbers directly to the legitimate source. Details about the social norms for electricity and calculation rules are given in the system. "Guarantor".

Let's start with the most important concept. The social norm of consumption of electric energy (power) is a certain amount (volume) of electric energy (power) that is consumed by the population and categories of consumers equivalent to it, within which and over which the supply of electric energy (power) is carried out at various regulated prices (tariffs) (Article 3 of the Federal Law of March 26 2003 No. 35-ФЗ “On the Electric Power Industry”). See you All this is invented more than ten years ago. Everything is clear: the state was preparing to join the WTO.

"Garant" indicates that Russian citizens and organizations consume electricity uneconomically. The data of the Ministry of Energy of Russia are also presented: annual losses of electricity as a result of its irrational consumption amount to about a third of the total amount of electricity used. Hence the search for legislators of new ways to stimulate the "careful use of electricity." These paths are described in the Federal Law of November 23 2009 №261-ФЗ “On Energy Saving and Energy Efficiency Improvement and on Amendments to Certain Legislative Acts of the Russian Federation”, which consolidated the principles of rational use of electricity. For the population, the main thing here is the social norm of consumption. It is fixed in the Resolution of the Government of the Russian Federation on 22 July 2013, No. 614 “On the procedure for establishing and applying the social norm of consumption of electrical energy (power) and on introducing amendments to some acts of the Government of the Russian Federation on the establishment and application of the social norm of consumption of electrical energy ( power) "). The resolution was signed by D. Medvedev. Its text and calculation formulas can be found on the "Guarantor" by link. The document is huge.

According to this decree, the so-called pilot projects for the introduction of the social standard of consumption of electrical energy (power) from 1 September 2013 were to be implemented in seven constituent entities of the Russian Federation: in the Trans-Baikal and Krasnoyarsk Territories, in Vladimir, Nizhny Novgorod, Orel, Rostov and Samara regions . (The Samara region still refused the experiment).

The method of calculating the social norm of consumption of electric energy (power), included in the resolution, determines both the procedure for establishing standards and benefits with allowances. We quote paragraph 1: “The social norm of consumption of electrical energy (power) ... is calculated in accordance with the Regulations on the establishment and application of the social norm of consumption of electric energy (power) ... in the subject of the Russian Federation, taking into account household groups and types of dwellings specified in the Regulations in the manner prescribed by this methodology. " That is, the document gave the definition of these very norms to the regional authorities.

The coefficients are set: 1,5 - for households in the emergency housing stock or dilapidated housing stock with a wear rate of more than 90 percent; 1,2 - for households in a dilapidated housing stock with a depreciation rate of more than 70 percent. Indoor electric cooker can give even 90 kilowatt-hours per month. There are other allowances, which is useful to know including for the sake of objectivity. For example, the formula for calculating the social norm for residential premises located in urban settlements, equipped with electric heating and (or) electric heating installations, for each group of households, taking into account the seasonal nature of the consumption of electrical energy for heating, has been defined. It calculates the value characterizing the consumption of electricity for heating in residential premises, which are equipped in the prescribed manner with electric heating installations in the absence of a centralized hot heat and water supply. Its value is set by the authorized body of the subject of the Russian Federation. The regulation allows no more than 3000 kWh per month per household.

If you heat the water with electricity, then the technique gives you another extra charge. This is a value that characterizes the consumption of electricity for water heating in residential premises, which, in the established order, are equipped with electric heating installations in the absence of a centralized hot heat and water supply. It also gives 100 kWh per month per person. The rules are valid, however, only in terms that determine the beginning and end of the heating period.

Lonely retirees (old age or disability) will receive benefits. For these people in the first year of application of the social norm, the amount of payment for the entire amount of electricity consumed is calculated according to the tariff of the social norm. From the second year onwards, the increment coefficient 1,5 is applied to the social norm for such households.

Garant writes that in a pilot project on the application of the social norm, which was launched on September 1, the minimum social norms calculated for the first group of households (living alone) were recorded in Vladimir and Nizhny Novgorod regions (50 kWh). The Oryol region turned out to be the most generous: there the size of the norm for electricity is 190 kW * hour, and if more than five people are registered in the living quarters, then 90 kW * hour of electricity is relied on each next one.

In the Trans-Baikal Territory, the norm is 65 kWh, in the Krasnoyarsk Territory, 75 kWh, in the Rostov Oblast, 96 kWh. The premium for the installed electric stove had the maximum value (90 kWh), however, there were exceptions - in the Rostov region its size was less than half of the legal maximum - 43 kWh.

Garant experts estimated how much electricity the household uses.

“So, on average per month, a refrigerator consumes about 50-60 kWh, a washing machine — 20-30 kWh, a computer — from 20 to 60 kWh, depending on usage intensity, a kettle — 10-20 kWh , iron - 10-30 kWh, TV - 10-30 kWh, microwave - 5-10 kWh, chargers - 5-10 kWh If we add up the minimum monthly indicators of energy consumption of this necessary household equipment, we get about 140 kWh. In addition, in Russian homes today, you can often find dishwashers, boilers, underfloor heating, very energy-intensive air conditioners and other appliances and devices that significantly increase the consumption of electricity. ”


To this, of course, could and should have been added vacuum cleaners, hair dryers, electric razors, clippers, coffee makers, light bulbs, heaters, electric tools like drills, drills, jigsaws or electric choppers, which are needed not only by the woolens in their “households”, but and city dwellers, etc. - Yes, there is still a lot more, up to a fairly powerful pump in the well (1,2 kW - not the most powerful, believe my great experience), if you live in a village and you do not have a centralized water supply. Yes, and a computer, if you surround it with peripherals like a scanner, a laser printer, a router or an ADSL modem, a UPS, and other things, eat more 60 kWh per month. And I'm not talking about any gaming computer, the power consumption of the power supply which is almost comparable to the gluttony of the iron. And I will not talk about home swimming pools with lighting, electrosaunas and so on. We attribute this to expenses purely "bourgeois".

In most cases, the population in the mean standard kilowatts will not fit. On the "Guarantor" they even give nicknames of social norms: "Light on the cards", "Electropay" и "Tariff" Lucina ". The latter is downright artistic.

Garant also quotes Alexander Grigoriev, Head of the Department of Fuel and Energy Complex Research (Institute of Natural Monopolies Problems):

“The thesis of the irrational use of electricity by the population has no evidence. In terms of the volume of average annual per capita consumption of electricity in everyday life, we are far behind developed countries: in Russia this indicator differs from EU countries in 1,5-2 times, from the USA - in 4! Citizens will fit in or not - given to the local authorities, who will set specific parameters. So far, the existing experience (social policy has existed for a long time in several regions) suggests that it is likely that it will be extremely difficult to meet the social standards.

Without increasing the transparency of the process of tariff setting and restoring order in this area, any experiments on norms will most likely not give the effect that their authors expect. ”


Here are the sad examples of the results of the "pilot project" of the government. They are not taken from the “yellow press”, but from "Rossiyskaya Gazeta" for October 24 2013 of the year.

In the Vladimir region, the experiment with social norms began in the year 2005. The limit was set to 50 kWh per month per person, in 2013, the authorities promised to raise it to 75 kWh, but they did not raise it.

“Such a rule was acceptable 20 years ago, but not today, when computers and other equipment appeared,” says Nadezhda Fursova, a mother of many children. - The old people, and those barely fit into this norm, saving literally everything. What to say about young families! ”

“The norm in 50 kW is the minimum not to live with a candle,” retired Galina Salova confirms. - It was invented by officials who do not know how the majority lives. In my month 100 kW burns. One refrigerator, which is economical, of the latest generation, takes the 30 kW. And this is despite the fact that I do not have a washing machine, or a computer, or an electric kettle, or a microwave, and I turn on the TV very rarely. ”

But Transbaikalia, where, as you know, is cooler than in Vladimir.

Social rules were introduced here back in the 2005 year, and there were no changes since 1 in September. 2013 was not there. Light Limit - 65 kW per person per month. Townspeople pay 2,28 rub. within social norms, 3,78 rub. - for excess kilowatts; villagers give respectively 1,59 rub. and 2,64 rub.

“Together with my husband, we fit into the standards only in summer, when it dawns early, it gets dark late and there is no need to turn on the heater,” says Irina, 30-year-old chitinka. - As soon as it gets colder, the electric heater is turned on: the heating in our houses is terrible, and the costs of light soar. How was it possible to introduce such insignificant norms in the region where the 9 months are winter, where there is almost no domestic gas, which means it is necessary to cook on electric stoves? ”

In the regional tariff service, Rossiyskaya Gazeta was told that the value of the social norms was determined with an eye to the budget possibilities: after all, the falling revenues of power engineers from the regional treasury. The budget of Transbaikalia will not master the larger norm.

There are enough examples. It makes no sense to bring them more. And without that it is clear: there are no people who are satisfied with social security among the population.

At present, officials of the Altai Territory are engaged in regional electrical calculations, where they are exploring the possibility of introducing social norms in the current year. Sergey Rodt, head of the local regional administration for state regulation of prices and tariffs says: "To determine the social standard, we take as a basis the power consumption in normal families using a normal set of household appliances." And he adds: “It’s groundless to talk about having to give up dummies, irons or refrigerators so as not to go beyond the social standard of electricity consumption.”

The social norm of electricity consumption will be established in the Vologda region. About this at a press conference Told Anna Popova, a lawyer for communal issues of the Vologda Public Relations Center: “The social norm is the minimum amount of electricity for a normal life at an affordable price. This amount of electricity in kilowatts per hour will be calculated per person. Its creation, firstly, is necessary in order to save utility resources. It is planned that this will help solve the problem of cross-subsidization, when prices for industrialists are artificially inflated due to price restraint for the population, therefore hopes for the introduction of a social norm are high, we hope that it will prove itself from the positive side. ”

So, the social norms in less than six months can step across the country.

In the article of Maria Khudovekova, “The deputies decided to abolish the social norms for electricity” ("Energy and Housing") from 11 December 2013 of the year states that the bill rejecting the social norms was submitted to the State Duma by representatives of Fair Russia. But the prospects for his approval are small.

The project was submitted by a group of State Duma deputies from the Fair Russia fraction of December 11. This was reported on the website of one of the authors of the bill Oksana Dmitrieva. The danger of introducing a new power supply throughout the country, the deputy sees in the fact that the tariff will be regulated, but outside the limit it can grow as you please. Comrade Dmitrieva said:

“We need to look for reserves not in the pockets of citizens, but in the energy companies themselves. It is necessary to fix all the detrimental consequences of the reform of the power industry according to Chubais, with numerous intermediaries and affiliated structures, an excessive number of managers, which doubled in the post-Soviet period with the same amount of electricity consumption. In addition, we should not forget that huge funds from both the federal and regional budgets are invested in the authorized capital of various power companies. ”


To the latter, you can easily add the so-called lobby - people from these companies never tire of promoting their commercial interests in the government and the Duma.

According to the authors of the bill, social norms in the “pilot” regions (see above the list of the “Guarantor”) were established by regional authorities without an economic justification. As part of an experiment in the Nizhny Novgorod and Oryol regions, the norms differ almost fourfold!

The explanatory note also noted that the population of Russia is quite economical in comparison with the population of Western Europe and the USA: on average, Russians consume 2 times less electricity than the Germans and the British, and 4,5 times less than the Finns and Americans. Why? The most common reason: the low standard of living.

People can not afford a large apartment, equipped with modern technology, and the technology itself is unlikely they can afford. The introduction of sotsnorm will lead to an even greater decline in the standard of living of the population.

The answer to the parliamentarian was given by the United Russia party. The answer is predictable.

Deputy from “United Russia” Pavel Zavalny believes that the law on “energy distribution" is not necessary to cancel, you can only finalize. As an argument, Mr. Zavalny referred to the "laws of economics."

“I just know that everything that the opposition contributes, especially“ Fair Russia ”, half smacks of populism. There are laws of economics that cannot be changed, canceled, ”the deputy noted in a conversation with the correspondent of RIA Energy and Housing and Communal Services. Zavalny noted that the problem of subsidizing electricity supplies to the population through industry was not solved in the country. And this every year - 240 billion rubles.

Everything is clear, let us add: the market. And the WTO, of course. What the Soviet Union would not bother with.

“As part of the development of the country's economy, there should be no subsidies - everything should cost as much as it costs. Because if at low prices electricity is supplied to people, then this is subsidized by industrial enterprises, and as a result, the cost of production increases. This product is not competitive, including in foreign markets, we can not sell it, competing in the global economy. And we joined the WTO, entered the global economy, in a global, in fact, competition. ”


Well what can you do - they entered so they entered.

I will finish the article by simple calculation. I lived in the village for a long time - in a house heated by an electric boiler on 380 volts. (The gasification of Russian villages, the “presidential program” were trumped before the 2012 elections of the year. Our gas will go to the Chinese sooner than it will be spent in small villages. That village I’m talking about is not to dream about gas. For ten years already " gasify. "Speech, by the way, about the Tyumen region.)

To live with relative heat (relative! Not plus 25 degrees, but about plus 18-20, depending on the temperature outside) in a house of slightly more than one hundred square meters. meters, built of good material (arbolitovye blocks, i.e. wood concrete), in the Siberian winter you need to run electric boiler no less than 6 kilowatts. With strong and stable cold (minus 25-30 and below) this is definitely not enough: people turn on additional heating elements, and the boiler already consumes 9, or even 12 kilowatts. But I count everything on 6. It is, of course, impossible to switch off the boiler for a long time in the winter - unless you have an alternative heating system, for example, solid fuel.

6 kilowatts multiplied by 24 hours per day and multiplied by 30 days. Total: 4320 kilowatt / hour per month. This is only electric boiler, and only on 6 kW. As a supplement (see above), the government promises us no more than 3000 kWh per month per household. Regional authorities may well lower this figure. But even if there is a maximum - 3000. As a result, 4320 - 3000 = 1320. 1320 kWh will have to pay at the so-called market price, thinking about the WTO. Judging by the results of the “pilot project”, the price of extra kilowatts is almost double.

Here electricity tariffs for individuals from Tyumen Energy Retail Company. We choose the tariff for the villagers, differentiated by two zones of the day (day - night): for the first half of 2014 - 1,53 rub. for 1 kWh and 0,77 rub. - for the same at night (eight hours of consumption). In the second half of the year, prices will be 1,59 and 0,80 rubles. accordingly (the price neatly rises twice a year).

It remains to calculate what amounts the “normative” and excess consumption will result in when using an electric boiler in the house. Believe the example of Transbaikalia (see the difference above) and assume that in the winter 2014-2015. prices for over-limit electricity will not rise 2 times, but 1,66 times.

You need to pay at the new price (2,54 rubles per kWh during the day, 16 hours every day, and 1,33 rubles per kWh at night, 8 hours every day) 1320 kWh. That is, two thirds of 1320 kW * h - 880 kW * h - will be paid for 2,54 rubles, and the remaining third - 440 kW * h - for 1,33 rubles. Multiply. We get 2235 rub. 20 cop plus 585 rub. 20 cop Total: 2820 rub. 40 cop

Do not forget that you have to pay for those 3000 kWh that the government has “granted” to the rural population. 2000 kWh per 1,53 rub. the villagers will fly into 3060 rubles per month, and 1000 nightly kilowatt hours - into 770 rubles per month. Total: another 3830 rubles in the winter month.

2820 rub. 40 cop + 3830 rub. = 6650 rub. 40 cop

This is in the best case, i.e., if the regional authorities give the population a maximum of social “surcharge” (3000 kWh), if the over-limit electricity is not twice as high as “social”, and if winter is mild . If, however, include a boiler on 1,66 and even on 9 kilowatts in very cold months, then, apparently, you need to take a bank loan for winter heating. Or go to the barn and hang on.

Do not forget that the tariffs of energy retail companies regularly - twice a year - are rising, keeping up with inflation.

And the salaries of people in the villages are small — ten to fifteen thousand rubles a month. 25 thousand is, consider, the local oligarch. Move to the shacks? .. Let Medvedev and Putin move.

Remember also that social norms are valid only during the heating season. That is, in cold September or May you will pay in Siberia for heating to the fullest. Well, or freeze.

Finally, I did not consider all other energy consumption: a borehole pump, a water heater, light bulbs, a computer with peripherals, a washing machine, an iron with a vacuum cleaner, a circulation pump that constantly drives water through the heating pipes, and everything else. Saw on my gasoline - and that is good. True, gasoline costs a little more than in Saudi Arabia ...

Of course, in addition to the electric boiler, since there is no gas, you can have a stove with a wood or coal-fired boiler in the house. But, first of all, someone must drown her — and drown constantly in severe cold. But if people go to work during the day, who will do it? But the tenants want to return to a warm house, in which the pipes are not frozen. To drown is vital. Secondly, firewood or coal, and also their delivery costs money too. And the price of them with the introduction of "socnorm" will inevitably soar - in accordance with the very "laws of economics" that Mr. Zavalny mentioned.
Author:
Photos used:
The Associated Press
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  1. ReifA
    ReifA 17 January 2014 08: 00
    61
    Yes, everything is simple - they found another way to milk the people. The rest is husk.
    1. A.YARY
      A.YARY 17 January 2014 08: 20
      78
      Alexey
      You are right only partly!
      It is not simple
      a way to milk the people.
      this is another way to choke those who remember that this is all ALL THIS economy belongs to the PEOPLE WHO CREATED IT and those "effective managers" who come up with "ways" brought up in the same kagala with Chubais and Gaidars.
      The war against the people continues.
      For myself, I have already decidedI will not get along with these rulers, but with the adoption of these "norms" they will become enemies.
      1. SolomonSS
        SolomonSS 17 January 2014 08: 45
        49
        Soon, as in the fairy tale "Chipolino" will be, for rain, thunder, thunder we will pay.
        1. Oskar
          Oskar 17 January 2014 10: 16
          35
          Yeah, as in L. Solovyov's novel "Khoja Nasreddin": let's introduce a tax on tears, it will cause new tears, and so you can go on forever (I don't remember literally)!
          1. Cristall
            Cristall 18 January 2014 18: 03
            +1
            Tolstoy Peter 1-A, let's introduce a tax on bast shoes, but there is no tax on them. Truly - men take down 12 pairs of bast shoes a year. For the money for a couple, and beat the Khan!
        2. Gluxar_
          Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 13: 20
          +3
          Quote: SolomonSS
          Soon, as in the fairy tale "Chipolino" will be, for rain, thunder, thunder we will pay.

          So in Germany they have already paid for rain for more than one year, and in the USA there are similar fees. So our neighbors from Lithuania have the same plans.


          So you need to look where excessive liberalization leads ...
          1. Canep
            Canep 17 January 2014 17: 01
            -2
            So things are with us in Ekibastuz:
            According to the order of the Department of the Agency of the Republic of Kazakhstan for the Regulation of Natural Monopolies in the Pavlodar Region, Ekibastuzenergo LLP introduced the following electricity tariffs on 01.01.2014, depending on the volume of its consumption by individuals:

            1st level at which the minimum fee is charged - 10,37 tenge including VAT

            up to 110 kWh per person for consumers using electric stoves;
            up to 90 kWh per person for consumers who do not use electric stoves.
            2nd level at which a fee is charged at the average rate - 12,71 tenge including VAT

            from 110 to 180 kWh per person for consumers using electric stoves;
            from 90 to 150 kWh per person for consumers who do not use electric stoves.
            3rd level at which a fee is charged at the maximum rate - 15,89 tenge including VAT

            over 180 kWh per person for consumers using electric stoves;
            over 150 kWh per person for consumers who do not use electric stoves.
            (the rate of infection increased was 9,64 11,83 and 14,78 but not about that. the rate of 4,6 tenge per 1 ruble))
            If the author decided to use electricity for heating, then let him not complain about the high cost of this process, you can drown banknotes with dope. If the standard heating furnace is loaded with coal, then it will burn in it for up to 6 hours, and for the remaining 6 hours the house will not defrost, unless of course the house is made of plywood, but has normal thermal insulation. In Ekibastuz, a heating main is connected to all the houses, no one drowns us with gas, or coal (we have it in the sea), or central heating.
            Such a system of payments for electricity in Kazakhstan for a long time I do not even remember when it was introduced.
            And the prices for electricity for the population are set by the antimonopoly committee (state structure) according to the calculations of the supplier, despite the fact that the electricity supplier is Ekibastuzenergo LLP, that is, a private company and no one in our country whines about high prices, and Tajiks (of whom we have almost no) they do not arrange a bakery in a residential building, and the private owner has his own profit for development, the owner can afford some luxury - to go to the Maldives. The state tightly controls such enterprises.
            1. Canep
              Canep 17 January 2014 17: 48
              +1
              Tariffs in Almaty: http://www.esalmaty.kz/index.php/ru/rates-and-services/tariff-plans
              Tariffs, differentiated depending on the volume of electricity consumption (including VAT - 12%):

              first level tariff - 14,36 tenge per 1 kWh
              second level tariff - 19,44 tenge per 1 kWh
              tariff of the third level - 24,32 tenge per 1 kWh
              Tariffs differentiated by day zones (including VAT - 12%):

              With a dual-zone accounting system:

              daily tariff rate (from 7-00 to 23-00) - 20,78 tenge per 1 kWh;

              night tariff rate (from 23-00 to 7-00) - 4,57 tenge per 1 kWh

              With a three-zone accounting system:

              daily tariff rate (from 7-00 to 19-00) - 16,21 tenge per 1 kWh;

              tariff rate during maximum hours (from 19-00 to 23-00) - 33,95 tenge per 1 kWh;

              night tariff rate (from 23-00 to 07-00) - 4,57 tenge per 1 kWh.

              Tariffs in Kustanai: http://www.kec-eso.kz/
              Tariffs in Astana: http: //www.astanaenergosbyt.kz/tarif
            2. kolla
              kolla 18 January 2014 17: 42
              +1
              Mr. Minesweeper. Indeed, no one whines, we are not dogs. Such discussions and battles were about tariffs. The most interesting thing is that ETEC, which supplied ten percent of the energy resources in the USSR, now has a heat tariff higher than in the regional city. And electricity prices in Kazakhstan do not depend on transportation, but depend on the number of RESs to the consumer. No one disputes that a heating main has been connected to each house (but in a different way). Only the city is more like a chemical plant, all around are pipes that cross the sidewalks, close arches, playgrounds. What kind of private trader are you talking about if energy-intensive industries are closing due to high tariffs?
              We just live in different Ekibastuz.
              1. Canep
                Canep 19 January 2014 07: 03
                +1
                If there was no heating main to each house, then the city would not resemble a chemical plant, but an underworld due to the smoke of coal stoves.
        3. Combitor
          Combitor 17 January 2014 14: 28
          10
          There will be many more interesting things. And before the 2018 elections, that is, the appointment of the current Fuhrer himself for a new term, the electorate (as we are now called) will again be given handouts and next macaroni in the form of regular populist promises and hung on the ears of the Russian people, all 146% of voters, one, again climb into the same cesspool.
      2. Field
        Field 17 January 2014 09: 48
        48
        The main law of any democratic capitalist economy is simple - THE END USER PAYS FOR EVERYTHING.
        those. we are dear citizens of the Russian Federation.
        Look at the news of the central channels, they are directly drumming into us "we have to pay more" under the guise of "saving" electricity. "Experts" all sorts of speaking about Europe-America tell.
        And about climatic conditions, at least a word? In Siberia, we have a winter of 7-8 months in fact. And in your home? water supply and then on electricity (I am silent about heating, repairs, household. work).
        This is another anti-popular law, lobbied by oligarchic groups.

        But, however, again, "Russians", we will swallow in silence, and we will shout "Putin is our president !!!"

        How much nonche give for calling for the overthrow of power?
        1. Alexander I
          Alexander I 17 January 2014 13: 38
          11
          if everything turns out well, then the order, or the street will be called by your name. If unsuccessful - 13 years in prison.
          1. Field
            Field 17 January 2014 16: 45
            +4
            I'm already wondering when the “Russians” will wake up?
            Then the repressive apparatus will not help (under the pretext of combating terrorism and extremism).

            For a long time, the cup of patience overflows, but if it overflows ...
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. brelok
          brelok 18 January 2014 07: 26
          +2
          Quote: Field
          The main law of any democratic capitalist economy is simple - THE END USER PAYS FOR EVERYTHING.
          those. we are dear citizens of the Russian Federation.

          What the hell sorry economy! The village will be bent right away. Lord, who will feed you?
          1. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 18 January 2014 13: 51
            +2
            Quote: brelok
            and who will feed you?

            Monsanto
      3. mirag2
        mirag2 17 January 2014 13: 00
        +4
        Yes, there are things that are NOT made from pure populism (such as bread didn’t rise in price in the USSR, but it was necessary) - this is not the entry of a higher retirement age.
        And the rise in price of electricity, water and other things in the rent is abnormality (like the price of gasoline).
      4. Gluxar_
        Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 13: 17
        -6
        Quote: A.YARY
        this is another way to hinder those who remember that this is ALL THIS economy belongs to the PEOPLE WHO CREATED IT, and those "effective managers" who come up with "ways" are thieves brought up in the same kagal with Chubais and Gaidars.
        The war against the people continues.
        For myself, I have already decided, I will not get along with these rulers, but with the adoption of these "norms" they will become enemies.

        And it seems to me that the war continues with the "consumer society", which does not care what will happen tomorrow, the main thing today is to fill your belly.
      5. Andrey57
        Andrey57 17 January 2014 13: 34
        +9
        XVIII century. New Poor Laws were being prepared, the philosopher and politician Lord Townsend wrote: “Hunger will tame the most ferocious beast, teach the most vicious people good manners and obedience. In general, only hunger can hurt the poor to make them work. The laws have established that you need to make them work. But the law enforced by force causes disorder and violence. While power breeds evil will and never prompts good or acceptable service, hunger is not only a means of peaceful, inaudible, and continuous pressure, but also the most natural stimulus to work and diligence. The slave should be forced to work by force, but the free man should be left to his own decision. "


        Everything is as old as the World! And the methods of enslavement are still the same! It is this Anglo-Saxon policy that is guided by all those creatures that are ruining the country and robbing its wealth, and the whole rag called "United Russia" is just executors. negative
      6. Far East
        Far East 17 January 2014 13: 49
        +1
        Quote: A.YARY
        "effective managers"

        Dear, but it is possible in RUSSIAN! hi
      7. MAG
        MAG 17 January 2014 14: 15
        +7
        They will "milk" the people until the people bleed, and there the people will bleed the power for them. There will also be a new tax on overhaul in new offshore companies and we will have to pay without fail, although the consumer law explicitly states that we must pay for the "rendered" services and not vice versa.
      8. gsg955
        gsg955 17 January 2014 14: 33
        +6
        Jump before the revolution.
        1. O_RUS
          O_RUS 17 January 2014 21: 10
          +1
          Quote: gsg955
          Jump before the revolution.


          will not allow
      9. samoletil18
        samoletil18 18 January 2014 09: 49
        +6
        The country lives in conditions of total 3,14 interference of the authorities and "Effective management". Something like this:

        The price of electricity for the population, if correctly calculated, should be 3-3,5 rubles per kilowatt hour, said Sergei Novikov, head of the Federal Tariff Service, speaking in the State Duma. The current price on average is 2 rubles per kilowatt hour.

        At the same time, according to the head of the service, the cost of production of this kilowatt hour in Russia is from 50 kopecks to 1,5 rubles. Says an electricity industry analyst at VTB-Capital Investment Bank Dmitry Skryabin:
        - Since 2000, the cost of electricity, according to my estimates, has grown by about 6 times. But at the same time, domestic gas prices in Russia increased 5 times. This is the main reason for the increase in electricity prices ...

        Two-thirds of all electricity in Russia is produced at thermal power plants, almost half - at gas. Aleksandr Kotikov, a power analyst at the Troika-Dialogue investment company, notes that gas tariffs rose by about 2008% in 25, 2007% in 15, 2006% in 14, and 2005% in 31

        Not a word about nuclear power plants and hydroelectric power plants. And there the cost is terribly lower. About 1/2 + 2/3, as part of a whole ... (scolded). But the "people hawala" the nonsense of an "effective manager" of a large investment company.
        Vladimir Vladimirovich! We have already elected a mayor not from "Edra". Let's start expelling edrosovskih sly_opic single-mandate members from the city council to drive. And by 2018. I will not forget and I will remind everyone.
        The tariffs of natural monopolies are easily compensated by subsidies, by raising taxes for them, for my personal, according to the constitution, coal gas, etc.
        http://www.svoboda.org/content/article/1850347.html
    2. GreatRussia
      GreatRussia 17 January 2014 08: 21
      +5
      Quote: ReifA
      Yes, everything is simple - they found another way to milk the people. The rest is husk.

      Apparently, this is done:

      A Just Russia leader Sergei Mironov pointed out that overpayments on a pilot project for the introduction of a social rate of electricity consumption in the Rostov region, we went to remunerate members of the board of directors of Donenergosbyt CJSC and purchase executive class cars, a REGNUM correspondent reports January 15.


      , in spite of:

      The issue of introducing a social norm for energy consumption is very sensitive for people, but a final decision has not yet been made. This was stated by Russian President Vladimir Putin on December 19 during a "big press conference", answering a question from a REGNUM correspondent about the distortions already observed in the regions.

      "The social norm has been introduced only for electricity and only in some regions. These decisions, if adopted, are aimed at energy and heat conservation. But they should not lead to an increase in pay ", - said the President of the Russian Federation. If this happens, the authorities should respond to this, he stressed.

      Listened to Putin's officials? The answer is obvious.
      http://www.regnum.ru/news/1754611.html
      1. A.YARY
        A.YARY 17 January 2014 08: 41
        52
        GREAT RUSSIA
        Quote
        Listened to Putin's officials?

        Nenad, that's just a shag grandmother!
        Officials are bad and Putin is white and fluffy!
        http://s39.radikal.ru/i084/0811/0d/fda73d396c0e.jpg

        This is extremely interesting to me, those who oppress this line on the site, consider us idiots? Type Putin separately and officials (whose?) Separately? Are they living in another country? On another planet? And Putin is not their boss?
        FUNNY!
        1. GreatRussia
          GreatRussia 17 January 2014 08: 48
          -3
          Quote: A.YARY
          Listened to Putin's officials?


          request

          I wonder why only enterprises:

          Starting January 1, 2014, in the Primorsky Territory, electricity tariffs for entrepreneurs will be reduced by 10%, the region’s administration said. About 85 thousand different enterprises and organizations of Primorye will be able to save money.

          Vladimir Putin spoke about the high cost of electricity during his recent visit to Vladivostok.

          "People are asking to somehow reduce, I do not know how much it is possible, to reduce tariffs. We must, in any case, prevent their growth," the president said.

          The Governor of Primorsky Territory Vladimir Miklushevsky believes that the regional authorities should do everything possible to create a favorable entrepreneurial climate and help businesses implement their projects. Therefore, he initiated the reduction of electricity tariffs.

          The promise is fulfilled. Starting January 1, 2014, in the Primorsky Territory, the electricity tariff was reduced at low voltage by 4,2%. In addition, the actual cost of electricity was reduced by 7% due to transmission rules.

          http://www.obeschania.ru/documents/promises/Snizit-tarifu?utm_source=twitter&utm

          _medium = persons & utm_campaign = auto
          1. A.YARY
            A.YARY 17 January 2014 09: 24
            20
            FROM THE PREVIOUS TOPIC!
            Evgeny Primakov makes it clear that today's neoliberal economic policy leads to an artificial outstripping tariff increase, which ultimately It affects both producers and consumers of certain goods and services.

            !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
          2. valerei
            valerei 17 January 2014 11: 39
            12
            GreatRussia, "minus", however, and for what? For citing an article? The point is not that they have reduced it - this is good, but that the figures for the reduction are taken from the ceiling. The fact that Putin does not know how much the tariffs can be reduced is not his business. Another thing is that both in the internet and in the media the opinion is persistently created that it is impossible to calculate the cost of electricity! Any, professional, not purchased audit will put everything on shelves. This is where all the costs will be revealed, everything, without exception !! And for gas for power plants and for a bloated apparatus and for "khurshaveli" and for super-salaries to the authorities, etc. But no one is interested in audits, except for us, consumers, but we, unfortunately, are not able to appoint them.
            1. Gluxar_
              Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 13: 36
              +2
              Quote: valerei
              GreatRussia, "minus", however, and for what? For citing an article? The point is not that they have reduced it - this is good, but that the figures for the reduction are taken from the ceiling. The fact that Putin does not know how much the tariffs can be reduced is not his business. Another thing is that both in the internet and in the media the opinion is persistently created that it is impossible to calculate the cost of electricity! Any, professional, not purchased audit will put everything on shelves. This is where all the costs will be revealed, everything, without exception !! And for gas for power plants and for a bloated apparatus and for "khurshaveli" and for super-salaries to the authorities, etc. But no one is interested in audits, except for us, consumers, but we, unfortunately, are not able to appoint them.

              You can calculate the cost of generation without any problems. All the "salt" in distribution systems. And it is not "bad officials" or "effective managers" who are to blame for this. The fact is that the costs of distribution systems include many unknowns. For example, programs to restore infrastructure or repair existing networks, investment programs are worth new facilities, the creation of backup delivery channels. And the main problem here is the deterioration of old networks. At whose expense is all this done? Mainly at the expense of the consumer, but where the money is going is not always clear. In one case, it can be theft, and in the other, real costs. So one size fits all revenge.
            2. Papakiko
              Papakiko 17 January 2014 14: 09
              +6
              Quote: valerei
              But audits are of no interest to anyone except us consumers, but we, unfortunately, are not able to assign them.

              What is so direct or how?
              And conscience probably doesn’t allow people to go out, or do you think how they will pay for the Maidan in Ukraine?
              For the truth, the uterus for snot usually get.
              And here the shaggy hand of "democracy" is sinking deeper and deeper into the pocket of the man in the street, and it seems that it is no longer in his pockets.
              And the people are "happy", they don't even wipe them off.
              "Reform on reform" and nothing in the direction of social improvements for citizens there.
              Everyone on the barricades or wait for the "Morning of the Strelets' Execution" !!!!!!!!!
          3. atalef
            atalef 17 January 2014 14: 49
            +4
            Quote: GreatRussia
            Vladimir Putin spoke about the high cost of electricity during his recent visit to Vladivostok.

            interestingly introducing consumption standards, does the state establish the responsibility of the same companies for unexpected blackouts, voltage drops, or surges? Or should people continue to eat the same thing - paying more?
          4. Nicola
            Nicola 17 January 2014 23: 43
            +5
            It's ridiculous! Acquaintances from the energy sales department said that the cost of electricity at the Volga Hydroelectric Power Plant was 24 kopecks per kilowatt hour that year. Count how many intermediaries are fattening without producing anything. Moreover, most of the turbines are out of work and do not enter the market. let in excess energy. In order not to bring down prices. Energy from nuclear plants should cost a penny. I support what was said above, there is a massive war with the Russian people. To destroy.
        2. GreatRussia
          GreatRussia 17 January 2014 09: 02
          12 th
          Quote: A.YARY
          This is extremely interesting to me, those who oppress this line on the site, us idiots consider?

          Just do not need such primitive games to the public, with an appeal to the public.


          Records for non-payments for electricity and gas breaks the North Caucasus, where the amount of debt exceeds 60 billion rubles. True, there it is formed in a different way. It is believed that money is deposited with reseller companies, which cannot be influenced due to the fact that they are private and do not have a single control center. Also in the region, the norms of electricity losses in networks are overestimated. In the Russian Federation as a whole, the norm is 15%, and in Ingushetia - 40%, in Chechnya and Dagestan - 35%. “Losses” mean unauthorized connections to networks, which is nothing more than theft.

          Previously, the “New Region” cited Gazprom’s estimates: on average, the population of the North-West of Russia pays 99% of the gas consumed, while the Caucasus as a whole - only 68%. At the same time, the Caucasian non-payments are actually covered by the rest of the population of the Russian Federation, including due to the outstripping growth of tariffs.




          Quote: A.YARY

          Type Putin separately and officials (whose?) Separately? Are they living in another country? On another planet? And Putin is not their boss?

          You have a pretty postcard. To this a nice rhyme.


          Cat threw kittens
          This is Putin's fault.
          The hare was thrown by the mistress
          Guilty Guess!
          Here ends the board
          At the unfortunate goby,
          Our Tanya cries loudly
          Near Putin, not otherwise!
          The lights went out, the fence fell
          The car stalled motor
          Healthy tooth removed
          Ile climbed into the apartment thief.
          Did not like the movie,
          You have come to r ... but
          Any cataclysm
          One explanation:
          Every Democrat knows
          This is Putin's fault !!!
          1. Oskar
            Oskar 17 January 2014 09: 33
            52
            "Thank you Vova for stability! For the fact that debility has begun! For the fact that we do not have income from increasing expenses! Thank you Vova for the country! Grass overgrown with virgin soil, for the fact that there is no future, but in the present there is only delirium Thank you Vova for all of us !!! For the gas sold to Europe, for the big pockets for the people, for the prosperity of the freaks !!! Thank you Vova ... medicine, I was clamped like a clamp, ripping off my last pants, for hemorrhoids we owe her !! Thank you Vova for the loans, I was killed by him for the rest of his life !!! And he finishes housing and communal services, he would be killed without sin !!! Thank you Vova for school, for drugs and Coca Cola! Education in the country, has long been in shit !! Thank you for the Auto VAZ! He erected a monument for you! So much dough to bury, for this it is worth living !!! Thank you Vova for the people, for the wonderful divorce ... For the life of officials in Paradise, I am tired of writing to you Vova !!! Thank you for my mother ... You don't give a damn about the disabled! For this pension in the country, we'll be in shit to death! Thank you for Sochi, Gelendzhik! It's only more expensive in the Caribbean, de chevle rest in the Bahamas, some money will remain in your pockets ... Thank you Vova for the Caucasus! Now he is praying for you! After all, Allah gives them money, Without Vova Putin, they will collapse !!! Thank you Vova for the House - 2 ... And for the kind words, about the fact that the evil Bonderlogs will break their legs about you !!! Thank you for the ringing of coins, there is this ringing, there is no salary !!! Your taxes eat it, you don't care about alarm !!! There is no stability in Russia ??? Why are you Vova - this is nonsense !!! Everything is stable with us ... Thank you for that, Vova !!! "
            1. Oskar
              Oskar 17 January 2014 09: 54
              19
              Quote: GreatRussia
              Any cataclysm
              One explanation:
              Every Democrat knows
              This is Putin's fault !!!

              If he does not want to be guilty of anything and is afraid of responsibility and criticism (this is the president): you are welcome to retire - VON from the Kremlin and let his comrades-in-arms run ahead of him! Although, why "if"?
              1. Charley
                Charley 17 January 2014 12: 38
                +2
                I don’t like our government either, but let's really look at things, what do you think Putin will leave now, and the other will be honest and kind, but there will be no such people by definition and cannot be, and who else will come is a big question some thieves will leave others will come, because they go there for this and a holy place does not happen to be empty.
                1. Gluxar_
                  Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 13: 45
                  -8
                  Quote: Charlie
                  I don’t like our government either, but let's really look at things, what do you think Putin will leave now, and the other will be honest and kind, but there will be no such people by definition and cannot be, and who else will come is a big question some thieves will leave others will come, because they go there for this and a holy place does not happen to be empty.

                  Yes, this is a liberal get-together, they don't care what the main thing is to throw their "kakakhi" into the minds of other people. I would not be surprised that this is one of the NSA bot programs, and not a bunch of provocateurs. It is from here that their "mass character" and the minusculeness of people with a different view of the world come from.
              2. Gluxar_
                Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 13: 43
                10 th
                Quote: Oskar
                If he does not want to be guilty of anything and is afraid of responsibility and criticism (this is the president): you are welcome to retire - VON from the Kremlin and let his comrades-in-arms run ahead of him! Although, why "if"?

                What are you talking about ? The fact that someone crap is to blame for someone else? Where do you come from? Do you at least work for decency in the team for a year and see how smoothly you manage to fulfill the plan.
                I have a lot of questions for Putin, but when I read such nonsense I just involuntarily become a lawyer ... well, I can’t do otherwise, I can’t tolerate violence against common sense and crimes of stupidity of quackers.
            2. kostiknet
              kostiknet 17 January 2014 10: 26
              19
              “As part of the development of the country's economy, there should not be subsidies - everything should cost as much as it costs.
              We are taught that the Country owes us nothing, but we must give the Country EVERYTHING !!! And a little more (to feed the bureaucrats). I don't want to live in such a country. It is curious, but people who came up with such "rules of the game" measured out three lives for themselves? Or did you feel like MacLeods? I am calm in life as an elephant, but if my family is driven into a "dead end", I can do miracles. And now let's imagine that there will be several millions of such "driven elephants", and they (like me) won't want to change the Country !!! Are they not scared at all? The earth is a small planet. You don't hide for a long time ...
            3. ia-ai00
              ia-ai00 17 January 2014 11: 45
              22
              And I should also add thanks for the dominance of Russia by migrants of all stripes - "From Moscow, to the very outskirts" ...
              - for their calls - “Allahu Akbar!” and promises to make Moscow such a nightmare that it won’t seem enough, and for their assertion that they are here at home. http://www.rusichi-center.ru/e/3171106-obkurennyie-dagestantsyi-obeschayut-ustro
              it-mos
              - for the fact that thieves in the treasury are transplanted into warm armchairs.
              - for the fact that: - "The law cannot be the same for everyone."
              - for the fact that Russia is turning into a "house of" tolerance ", with the vaccination" ttolerance"...
            4. valerei
              valerei 17 January 2014 11: 46
              17
              Oskar, bravo! I subscribe to every word. Everything is just like that. Only a little sense - after all, nobody reads us, except for ourselves.
              1. Oskar
                Oskar 17 January 2014 14: 43
                15
                Alas, that's all true. Putin's apologists are increasingly reminiscent of members of a totalitarian sect with completely brainwashed (or completely absent) and lack of organs of perception of the outside world. There are those who easily make a deal with their conscience for the sake of their material well-being, inseparably linking their interests with "stability." Therefore, even the desire to argue with these "devil's advocates", I personally disappeared!
                1. Normal
                  Normal 17 January 2014 22: 01
                  +4
                  Quote: Oskar
                  Therefore, even the desire to argue with these "devil's advocates", I personally disappeared!

                  And I don’t really want to, but ... it’s necessary, you understand? It is necessary!
                  No other way. Conscience torment.
                2. Orang
                  Orang 18 January 2014 20: 37
                  +2
                  Quote: Oskar
                  Alas, that’s all. Putin’s apologists are more and more reminiscent of members of a totalitarian sect with completely brainwashed (or completely absent) and the absence of organs of perception of the outside world

                  In the top topic about the Olympics such darkness. The main ideas: "Long live Putin, he won the homosexuals. The Olympics will raise the country's rating to unprecedented heights. They do not steal."
          2. Gluxar_
            Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 13: 40
            +4
            Quote: GreatRussia
            You have a pretty postcard. To this a nice rhyme.


            Cat threw kittens
            This is Putin's fault.
            The hare was thrown by the mistress
            Guilty Guess!
            Here ends the board
            At the unfortunate goby,
            Our Tanya cries loudly
            Near Putin, not otherwise!
            The lights went out, the fence fell
            The car stalled motor
            Healthy tooth removed
            Ile climbed into the apartment thief.
            Did not like the movie,
            You have come to r ... but
            Any cataclysm
            One explanation:
            Every Democrat knows
            This is Putin's fault !!!

            This is not a poem, but the State Department’s work plan in the Russian direction. Where did you get such an insider?
          3. Tatanka Yotanka
            Tatanka Yotanka 17 January 2014 16: 44
            17
            Quote: GreatRussia
            Did not like the movie,
            You have come to r ... but
            Any cataclysm
            One explanation:
            Every Democrat knows
            This is Putin's fault !!!

            Mistress left the bunny-guess who is guilty?
            - who spread rot and implements the WTO
            Tanya or Marinka cries, wipes herself with a tear
            Knowing around her lezginka happens with shooting
            He set foot in the city ... but at the entrance, your civilian shoe
            Illegal migrants have given a push here
            "The Citadel" - watched once, my neurons were shaken
            The Mikhalkovs-all masterpieces are removed from the budget
            The healthy tooth was removed and the entire jaw was brought to one side.
            So you did not pay, medicine costs grandmas
            The light went out, suddenly an electric device burned out immediately
            Because it ruled everything - the "effective" red thief
            Adults and children know to achieve all sorts of benefits.
            Someone must be responsible, otherwise life is a mess
            1. Oskar
              Oskar 17 January 2014 18: 06
              +6
              Very much! +++
        3. Normal
          Normal 17 January 2014 09: 09
          42
          Quote: A.YARY
          Are they living in another country? On another planet?

          Of course! Is this not known?

          Putin (and his officials) never stand in traffic jams.
          Putin (and his officials) do not buy food in the store.
          Putin (and his officials) do not fly in the economy class.
          ....................... do not pay for utilities.
          ....................... are not treated in ordinary hospitals and do not sit in queues in clinics.
          ....................... have no problems with housing or a mortgage.

          Criminal law does not apply to Putin (and his officials), they are not under jurisdiction at all (and if suddenly, as an exception to the general rules, they are jurisdictional, then under some other criminal procedure code that is inaccessible to ordinary citizens).
          They (Putin and his officials) together and live not in Russia, but in the AUTHORITATIVE OLYMPUS
          1. GreatRussia
            GreatRussia 17 January 2014 09: 35
            22 th
            Quote: Normal
            Criminal law does not apply to Putin (and his officials)

            Slogans - this is certainly wonderful, in turn, let me refer to the user sledgehammer102, in particular, on his detailed consideration of this issue Today, 08: 53:

            http://topwar.ru/38447-liberaly-vrut-po-odnoy-metodichke.html#
            1. Normal
              Normal 17 January 2014 10: 20
              15
              Quote: GreatRussia
              Slogans are certainly wonderful


              Alas, these are not slogans, IT IS FACTS

              Quote: GreatRussia
              in turn, let me refer to the user sledgehammer102,


              No need to refer to intermediaries and third parties. Link directly to "Sdelanounas"
          2. kontrol
            kontrol 17 January 2014 10: 55
            +9
            in short, well-fed hungry does not mean. while it will be so, nothing good can be expected
            1. godun
              godun 17 January 2014 12: 41
              +7
              In support of your words, I will quote our president: “.... now it will always be so.” It sounds of course arrogant, but it very accurately defines his attitude to everything that happens in the country.
        4. Heccrbq.3
          Heccrbq.3 17 January 2014 10: 58
          +6
          This line, dear, moderators are bending, our generalsimuses wassat , accordingly, it is clear who they get paid from. And now, comrade marshals, look at the number of comments about this article and the mood of people.
        5. valerei
          valerei 17 January 2014 11: 23
          18
          A. YARYI, it’s funny if it weren’t so sad. An example of this is "stooltkin" and his bl. Babskaya company. How many years did they steal and did not inform Putin about it? I do not believe. So he was interested in the process.
        6. yehat
          yehat 17 January 2014 12: 52
          +2
          and yet separately.
          rather dumb clan representatives are only concerned about profit and see nothing further than their nose.
          Putin, although he defends their interests, still sees further, and therefore tries to keep them from excesses, so that the next clamp is dressed without a hitch,
          and you can tighten it tighter gradually ...
        7. The comment was deleted.
        8. Papakiko
          Papakiko 17 January 2014 15: 15
          +3
          Quote: A.YARY
          White and fluffy

          For some reason, an image very distant about fur comes up in the eyes:
      2. valerei
        valerei 17 January 2014 11: 17
        21
        GreatRussia, And Putin and officials - all at the same time. I do not think that the introduction of this anti-popular law took place without, at least, notifying Putin about it. In the USSR, industry and agriculture worked, practically, at the same electrical capacities, and the limit was introduced only during the war. And now industry and agriculture are in the "corral", and there is not enough electricity? All this is a lie and the desire of a bunch of thieves to rip off us all once again. Putin has the ability to repeal this anti-people law, but, obviously, he has no desire. Now everyone is referring to the fact of joining the WTO. How many copies were "broken" about this and what? But nothing! Putin wanted to join and joined. Yes, it would be fine himself, one entered, and he would pay for this "pleasure" from his own pocket - so he stuck the whole of Russia into this shit. Now another rip-off of the Russian half-impoverished people has been started. How accurate is the question: "Is there life beyond the Moscow Ring Road?"
        1. yehat
          yehat 17 January 2014 12: 56
          +3
          Quote: valerei
          How accurate is the question: "Is there life beyond the Moscow Ring Road?"

          answer: life exists!
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Yarosvet
          Yarosvet 18 January 2014 14: 20
          +1
          Quote: valerei
          Putin has the opportunity

          First of all, duty
        4. Orang
          Orang 18 January 2014 20: 44
          +1
          Quote: valerei
          "Is there life beyond the Moscow Ring Road?"

          Psogolavtsy there. Shaving with an awl, basking in smoke.
      3. Gluxar_
        Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 13: 31
        -1
        Quote: GreatRussia
        Leader of "Fair Russia" Sergei Mironov

        After these words, reading the text is simply ridiculous. This shot will find officials who drink donated blood, if only to offend the people.

        I live in this "pilot" area. And the social norm did not increase electricity bills. The tariff is 3,50 against the previous 3,62.
        1. GreatRussia
          GreatRussia 17 January 2014 14: 14
          -9
          Quote: Gluxar_

          After these words, reading the text is simply ridiculous. This shot will find officials who drink donated blood, if only to offend the people.

          I live in this "pilot" area. And the social norm did not increase electricity bills. The tariff is 3,50 against the previous 3,62.

          I don't really believe that either ...
          I tried here to ask about tariffs in the regions, to discuss constructively, but you see how some answered here. The slogan is more important for rating. )))
          1. atalef
            atalef 17 January 2014 14: 52
            +3
            Quote: Gluxar_
            I live in this "pilot" area. And the social norm did not increase electricity bills. The tariff is 3,50 against the previous 3,62.

            Why then is it needed?
            1. Gluxar_
              Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 18: 49
              -9
              Quote: atalef
              Why then is it needed?

              In order for people to think about rational energy use. Social norm does not increase the cost of energy, but gives a discount on some part of the energy consumed. And some provocateurs turn everything upside down. You can consume at least 2000 kW / h and pay as before, but 100 or 190 kW / h will cost you less. Why so much? Someone thought that this was enough for a comfortable life, provided that a person leaving the room extinguishes the light, but does not leave it burning for half a day.

              What a person writes in an article about how expensive it will be for him to heat the house ... so when he was building a house for himself, the prices were not the same? What a provocation with the fact that the price of the "excess" will double? where did he get it?

              Well, the article is full of feces, the article is minus. I think, in addition to a group of local all-mutters, it’s not interesting.
              1. ia-ai00
                ia-ai00 17 January 2014 19: 32
                +5
                You can consume at least 2000 kW / h and pay as before, but 100 or 190 kW / h will cost you less ...

                Do not flatter yourself, dear Gluxar_ RU ... In Kazakhstan, already in 2012, it was "implemented". The tariff for the "social norm of 90 kW" did not become lower, but above the norm - the tariff is significantly higher. But in modern life, try to "keep within" these norms. Ultimately, people began to pay more, and lonely retirees sometimes simply do not turn on the light bulb.
                1. Gluxar_
                  Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 20: 15
                  -8
                  Quote: ia-ai00
                  Do not flatter yourself, dear Gluxar_ RU. In Kazakhstan, already in 2012, it was "implemented". The tariff for the "social norm of 90 kW" did not become lower, but above the norm - the tariff is much higher. But in modern life, try to "keep within" these norms. Ultimately, people began to pay more, and lonely retirees sometimes simply do not turn on the light bulb.

                  I am not flattering myself, but I say what is happening to me. You shouldn't put pressure on the "pensioners", as if they are already burning torches.
                  96 kW / h for one is enough to use everything you need. Especially to the pensioner. If your spending on housing and communal services exceeds 15% of total family income, then you can receive subsidies that will cover all that is higher. For retirees the same thing. So no crocodile tears are needed here.
                  Social norms is a project of "reminding" people that we are responsible for the future, not pig consumers of everything and everyone.

                  You can discuss the topic of unreasonable growth of the tariffs themselves, you need to instill citizens with responsibility for their lives and property. It is necessary to develop HOAs and educate people.
                  You definitely don’t need to carry nonsense and turn upside down good ideas, do not call white black.
          2. Gluxar_
            Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 18: 44
            11 th
            Quote: GreatRussia
            I don't really believe that either ...
            I tried here to ask about tariffs in the regions, to discuss constructively, but you see how some answered here. The slogan is more important for rating. )))

            I don’t give a damn about the rating. Here a bunch of provocateurs are working to undermine our people. What to take from them, from the wretched? They are two dollars more important than the homeland.
            1. Orang
              Orang 18 January 2014 20: 47
              +3
              Quote: Gluxar_
              They are two dollars more important than the homeland.

              It looks more like you are making money.
    3. nokki
      nokki 17 January 2014 08: 38
      23
      And not only - "milk". As Ivan Vasilyevich Bunsha used to say: "I am tormented by vague doubts .." Are the authorities consciously (testing the people's patience) leading Russia to rebellion or is greed overshadowing reason? After all, there are historical examples: for example, the idiotic social policy of the Provisional Government in 1917 basically led Russia to a civil war. It is somehow difficult to blame everything on the machinations of the West.

      Mikhail Yuryev once said correctly in a Glavradio program on Mayak: "Russian businessmen and officials should be kept in a cage. In a cage of the law. And at the slightest attempt to" stir up "something like that, act like Stalin: plant and shoot ..." This, of course, is not literal, but I conveyed the meaning. Only who will do it? The question is rhetorical. If the President does not start doing this, moreover, in the near future, the consequences will be catastrophic ...
    4. Tersky
      Tersky 17 January 2014 08: 51
      30
      Quote: Oleg Chuvakin
      Zavalny noted that the country has not resolved the problem of subsidizing electricity supplies to the population at the expense of industry. And this is 240 billion rubles every year.
      I wonder why Zavalny did not note the average monthly income of this population? And again the question is, which industry? How much of that industry remains in Russia? I myself work in an energy sales company and I can clearly see at the expense of which category of consumers the population is subsidized. As such, they are entrepreneurs, budgetary institutions of all levels that are maintained again by OUR tax deductions, agricultural producers, breathing in the cold and surviving from credit to credit. In the USSR, the cost of kWh for enterprises was 1 kop., For the population of 4, but (!!!) IN THE USSR, there was an INDUSTRY, AND there was something for the population to subsidize in order to lower the cost of final products. Well, this is the near future (i.e. to say the Russian alternative energy source):
      1. A.YARY
        A.YARY 17 January 2014 09: 00
        22
        Victor Good day!
        In the USSR, the state did not live from extortion of the population, it invested money from taxes in production and construction. This is a fundamental difference from the current temporary workers. Because we had everything for a penny!
        And these ineffective managers "feed" from the levies of electricity.
        1. Old scoop
          Old scoop 17 January 2014 12: 57
          -5
          Because there was industry, there was an economy, there was egalitarianism, low wages, lack of goods "for a penny", well, another bunch of imperfections in the system. Let's look back a little and ask ourselves, was everything good before Putin? Do not take events out of the temporal context of history, the integrity of the picture is lost. The article is speculative. And let's once again cry together over the expensive electricity for a dishwasher, a hair dryer and the devil knows what household garbage, it's so difficult for us to survive without these necessary things.
      2. Mart
        17 January 2014 09: 07
        33
        Quote: Tersky
        Well, this is the near future (that is, to say the Russian alternative energy source)


        Good afternoon, Victor! Here it is, this very source:
        1. Nayhas
          Nayhas 17 January 2014 09: 22
          +6
          Quote: Mart
          Here it is, this very source:

          Well, the maker-warmed up, dragged-warmed up, burned, well, of course ...
          The house is big?
          1. Mart
            17 January 2014 09: 37
            +8
            Quote: Nayhas
            The house is big?


            Quote: Oleg Chuvakin
            in the house area of ​​slightly more than one hundred square meters meters, built of good material (arbolitovy blocks, i.e. wood concrete)


            This is from an article ...
        2. Tersky
          Tersky 17 January 2014 09: 47
          11
          Quote: Mart
          Here it is, this very source:

          Good health, Oleg! Alas, I live in the steppe zone, we don’t have such a source, laughing !
          1. klimpopov
            klimpopov 17 January 2014 10: 59
            +7
            , we don’t have such a source either,

            Only dried cow poop ...
            Hello Victor!
            Interesting cards on email. will they introduce energy?
            1. Tersky
              Tersky 17 January 2014 19: 35
              +3
              Quote: klimpopov
              Interesting cards on email. will they introduce energy?

              Hi Klim! This is unlikely. In some region (if the memory of one of the cities of the Saratov region does not change), a pilot version of the meters with a card reader and an ASKUE controller was launched, i.e. you transfer money in any way possible to the energy card, then enter the desired amount into the meter (in the flesh before the advance payment) using this card. The system is simple, as long as there is money - there is electricity, run out - the system automatically cuts off the power supply before warning by a temporary shutdown. But this is for consumers of legal entities. I just don’t know if this system has taken root ...
        3. 311ove
          311ove 17 January 2014 09: 51
          +7
          The source is that, but I strongly disagree about the near future, for me this is the present and the past .... I have been heating my "little candle factory" for 7 years now ... Belgorod Region. Gasification 100%, there is no coal for this reason (if only somewhere in an old village barn recourse ) If earlier sawmills were on their own waste, but I probably "due to the lack of Gazprom shares" was heated with this, now there are pipes in the district ... Almost all newly created "innovative production" on the basis of former warehouses, hangars, workshops, etc. P. use this most environmentally friendly type of fuel ... repeat sad In short, the WTO, we already surpassed in some way recourse
        4. Ascetic
          Ascetic 17 January 2014 11: 01
          +9
          Quote: Mart
          Good afternoon, Victor! Here it is, this very source:


          Oleg! At least, firewood will cost us even more electricity. Birch trees from 1200 per cubic minimum. And during the winter, if you live in a private house, it takes three or four cubes. For example, I order ZIL 5 cubes, and if I live in the house all the time, and there’s a bath there, the car will leave for sure, or it’s not enough. I still refused the electric kettle, immediately saving 25 kW per month. But in the Oryol region, in a village, a wife there gives relatives pensioners firewood for free, plus electricity with the introduction of social norms for rural residents is cheaper, I didn’t understand the scheme but they said that if before the introduction of social norms they paid 2p.10kop, now they pay 1p.90k. at a rate of 190 kW / h. Plus some cross-subsidies from local authorities to pensioners and other categories. And in their house they all have household appliances like in an apartment, plus the Internet with Wi-Fi, satellite TV, gas, too, they set some standards, although the village of 10 houses will drive horseradish in the winter, from the village of 5 km, to the district center-Novosil -20 km . So it all depends on the greed and egghead of the local authorities.
          In Moscow, even chopped firewood in the net sells 4 logs of 200 rubles. and laughter and sin. And now prices have again risen to 1500 rubles. chipped and 1400 chipped.
          1. Mart
            17 January 2014 11: 22
            +6
            Quote: Ascetic
            Oleg! Firewood, at least with us, will cost even more than electricity. Birchwood from 1200 per cubic min. And for the winter if you live in a private house, the cube goes three-four. For example, I order ZIL 5 cubes


            I spent 15 cubes over the winter. The machine of not chipped birch (ZIL) cost 3 thousand rubles. Now it costs 4-5 thousand. The benefit compared to electric boiler was no less than 1,5 times. Not less, I emphasize.
            1. atalef
              atalef 17 January 2014 14: 55
              0
              Quote: Mart
              I spent 15 cubes during the winter. The car of not chopped birch (ZIL) cost 3 thousand rubles. Now it costs 4-5 thousand. The benefit compared to the electric boiler was no less than 1,5 times. No less, I emphasize

              What about convenience? Bring, prick, fold. swamp, throw out the ash, God forbid you close the damper ahead of time, well, it didn’t protopulate - the house was cold. And here all the same automation.
          2. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker 17 January 2014 12: 01
            +8
            Quote: Ascetic
            But in the Oryol region, in a village, a wife there gives relatives pensioners firewood for free, plus electricity with the introduction of social norms for rural residents is cheaper, I didn’t understand the scheme but they said that if before the introduction of social norms they paid 2p.10kop, now they pay 1p.90k. at a rate of 190 kW / h. Plus some cross-subsidies from local authorities to pensioners and other categories

            My mother lives there. I confirm - 1,90 rubles per kWh. And I have a house there, in the village. Just cry for a ninety rupee. And firewood there, I order from a forester, both oak and birch (in the form of sawn trunks) at a price of 6-8 cubes for 5-6 thousand tugriks. Chopping wood for the local contingent costs 1000 rubles.
            Mother uses AGV, in winter she pays about 3-3,5 thousand per month for utilities. In the summer about 2 thousand
            I have a Russian stove in my house.
            But actually you can already buy a gas generator. And in the event of a power outage, and in case of an urgent heating of the room in the winter with a heat gun, and in case of the use of energy-consuming construction and repair equipment.
          3. soaring
            soaring 17 January 2014 12: 56
            11
            Good afternoon, Ascetic! We are in the Nizhny Novgorod region. tariffs are changed when the governor wants .... And so that the people in these schemes can not figure it out! I have a 2nd group and I am "retired" with almost no experience, so my pension is 6700 rubles ... This is with surcharges ... A year ago, they disconnected from the boiler room and in our 4-apartment building everyone put in an email. boilers. In winter, frosts hit and I had to increase the heating, and then not to the maximum, and when the receipt came and the bill of 9000 my mother and I were shocked ... Her pension is 300 rubles lower than mine ... So just count how much money will go purely for heating ... And sometimes I also want to eat and sit at the computer ... I would not mind that our governor, who loves to sing to the people, and the LADY and the Great Patriotic War for the winter in our homes with families and on our pensions, and then maybe they will understand countries-rulers, how the people live outside the walls of the Kremlin and outside the Moscow Ring Road! It's a pity that this will never be, but I would like to ...
            1. Ascetic
              Ascetic 17 January 2014 22: 06
              +2
              Quote: soaring
              ! We have in the Nizhny Novgorod region. tariffs change when the governor wants to ..

              So I'm about the same. I don’t know your tariffs, I’ll count on Mosobl. By the way, my wife's pension is exactly the same. so in your case it is 2.81 per kWh in homes with electric stoves and electric heating. The heating rate is about o3Gcal per sq.m. let’s say your apartment is odnushka pl. 40sq.m means according to the standard you pay 2000 rubles for an even account. and for the drainage of the order of 100 rubles. And now, to this sum, you need to calculate the total electricity consumption and divide it into four apartments. If you take 9000 from your 2000 for heating itself, it turns out that from your one apartment they charge for electricity based on the consumption of almost 2500 kW / h per month. Well, nonsense at what tariffs do not count. So much as not a single heater does not ignite. And most likely your tariffs are not higher than in Mos.obl. In one of the cities (it seems in Lobny), the same crap was when the boiler house was not connected to the new buildings and the boilers were put in 10000 r. showed. just last winter when the bear allowed the regions to set standards.
        5. sssla
          sssla 17 January 2014 11: 03
          +3
          Why are there so many firewood? Enough and one sleepers Frozen sleepers on the back and around the house to bask laughing
        6. Jin
          Jin 17 January 2014 12: 05
          19
          Quote: Mart
          Good afternoon, Victor! Here it is, this very source:


          Hi Oleg! Thank you for the article! Here I read comments and think, where are the former pro-Putin sentiments? This is not about you, it is about the past mass of enthusiasm and squeaks on the branches of VO, how VV does cool things, how good he is, etc.
          Many years ago I changed my attitude to him (the president) ATTITUDE. Here I look at him, a cool guy like! It has to itself, after EBN, so in general the savior is direct! But the delight ended a long time ago, the benefit of my wise father, the Kingdom of Heaven, once explained to me what was happening, opened my eyes, so to speak, and I looked at many things in a completely different way ... it became sad and dreary like something on the soul.
          I have always said and say: Yes, Putin is beautiful and, like on business, presents, looks decent against the background of "colleagues in the shop", it's nice to look straight! Yes, Putin is a fine fellow in foreign policy! Yes, Putin is forcing to slowly respect the Russian Federation and reckon with it! BUT!!! What is happening inside the country is terry lawlessness and anarchy !!! Official arbitrariness and complete impunity (not counting the ostentatious landings of particularly annoying and inappropriate rulers) !!! The complete absence of influence and fear among subordinates !!! Take theft in Sochi, in Moscow ... yes EVERYWHERE !!! Complete corruption of everyone and everything, from kindergartens to the Kremlin itself !!! Putin, where are you ??? I understand that, on the one hand, he should not directly deal with EVERYTHING! BUT!!! He simply MUST compel everyone to do this, those people who should deal with problems, for which they were put in their chairs !!! If he cannot do this, then why is he needed at all, such a president, to sharpen the fringes - "to soak in the toilets"?
          There is absolutely wonderful comment about what the state only takes, completely refusing any obligations !!! Everything is passed on to the shoulders of the Russians, absolutely everything !!! And this "energy ration" is just another nail in the lid of the coffin called RUSSIAN PEOPLE sad !!! It's a shame, sad, nasty ...
        7. Boris55
          Boris55 17 January 2014 12: 06
          0
          Quote: Mart
          Good afternoon, Victor! Here it is, this very source:

          You may also be interested in the "most delicious" about alternative energy sources, post it here:
          http://kpe.ru/sobytiya-i-mneniya/ocenka-sostavlyayuschih-jizni-obschestva/mirovo
          zzrenie-nauka-obrazovanie / 4464-metastazy-15-1
      3. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 17 January 2014 14: 18
        +5
        I’m still interested in the cost of electricity. Of course, I understand that this cost is different at hydroelectric and hydroelectric power stations, but still I would like to know the real numbers. And then they say that ordinary citizens get it cheaper than that. Something is not believed. We have a bike that the director of the Zhigulevskaya hydroelectric station said that if the hydroelectric station received 5 kopecks per kilowatt, it would be gold.
        (Samara region still refused the experiment).
        Thank God and Merkushkin. Before him, Artyakov was, Vova, by the way, posed, so he and the VAZ and the region collapsed.
        1. atalef
          atalef 17 January 2014 14: 58
          +1
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          I’m still interested in the cost of electricity.

          In general, it is different. Like end users, different. 100kV, 10kV or 380 V - different prices for the consumer. And they sell to each consumer at an average price (depending on the voltage). Put yourself your KTP (by 10 kV) - in theory the price should be less.
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 17 January 2014 16: 00
            0
            Quote: atalef
            100kV, 10kV or 380V

            Hi, my left-wing friend. hi How do kilowatts and volts intersect? As far as I know, kV is power, 380v is voltage. I'm interested in the cost of one kV 220v. There must be a calculated price. hi
            1. atalef
              atalef 17 January 2014 17: 27
              +2
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              How do kilowatts and volts intersect?

              If the power feeder is 100kV (volts). 10kV - the shorter the lower the voltage level - the more expensive the cost of a kilowatt hour. because includes the cost of transporting electric energy - lines, transformers, service staff, etc.

              Quote: Ingvar 72
              As far as I know, kV- power

              kV (kilovolt) voltage, kW - power
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              I'm interested in the cost of one kV 220v. There must be a calculated price.

              It is usually calculated as follows
              The cost of kW sold by the generating station (power station) then went up the markup.
              we say so
              power station (x) - line 400 \ 160kV (x + 15%). lowering to 24Kv (x + 15% + 15%) lowering to 380 \ 220V (x + 15 + 15 + 15%) - something like this.
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 17 January 2014 18: 05
                0
                Quote: atalef
                kV (kilovolt) voltage, kW - power

                Well, I'm not an electrician, I'm sorry, that's why I ask. Although 220 I felt ten times on myself. laughing
                Quote: atalef
                reduction to 380 \ 220V (x + 15 + 15 + 15%) --- something like this.

                I understood the formula, thanks. Now to find out what is hiding behind X. hi
                1. atalef
                  atalef 17 January 2014 18: 12
                  -1
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  I understood the formula, thanks. Now to find out what is hiding behind X.

                  For (x) I hide. as an employee of an electric company, I don’t pay for electricity at all. Although I burn about 18000 kW per year. tongue
                  ps How are you doing at all? How is the weather ? hi
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 17 January 2014 19: 16
                    +1
                    Quote: atalef
                    For (x) I hide. as an employee of an electric company

                    Yes, I already understood.
                    Quote: atalef
                    I don’t pay for electricity at all. Although I burn about 18000 kW per year.

                    Here it is, Jewish happiness. Freebie. We also love her, but for some reason she is not very us, more than you. And why so?
                    Quote: atalef
                    ps How are you doing at all? How is the weather ?

                    Snow again piled today, horror. We are raking. hi
                    1. atalef
                      atalef 17 January 2014 19: 42
                      0
                      Here it is, Jewish happiness. Freebie. We also love her, but for some reason she is not very us, more than you. And why so?

                      Igoryanich, you must know, old wisdom
                      Save money, don’t spare

          2. Tersky
            Tersky 17 January 2014 20: 01
            +3
            Quote: atalef
            In general, it is different. As end users are different. 100kV, 10kV or 380 V - different prices for consumers

            Consumers are not different, different voltage levels at the point of transmission of electric energy from the supplier to the consumer. There are only four of them, VN (High voltage from 110 kW and above), SN-1 (Secondary average from 35 to 10 kW), CH -2 (10 kW), LV (0,4 kW). Here, the cost depends on the voltage level, the higher the voltage of the transmitted electric energy, the lower the cost. But usually with consumers having powerful current collectors, the calculation for the consumed electric energy is carried out from the receiver power, i.e. not in kWh but in kilowatt-ampere hours, or in megawatts. hi
            1. atalef
              atalef 17 January 2014 20: 29
              +1
              Well, I’m talking about something, only in a simpler language, tea or all electricians hi
        2. Tersky
          Tersky 17 January 2014 19: 57
          +2
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          I’m still interested in the cost of electricity. Of course, I understand that this cost is different at hydroelectric and hydroelectric power stations, but still I would like to know the real numbers.

          Where within the ruble 1. (When adding the cost of kWh generated at all types of power plants) But here is what and how the tariff is made up: Cost of electricity in% of the cost for 1 kWh
          Services System Operator-0,0625%
          Services of a commercial operator -0,0375%
          Transmission Services (Transit) -41,55%
          Weighted average cost of electric power-38,44583%
          Sales mark-up of energy sales company-4,625%
          VAT-18%
          Services of the Financial Settlement Center-0,0125%
          Now all this can easily be converted into a monetary equivalent in accordance with the tariff for which electricity is paid. Ingvar, Alexander, hi !
        3. Jin
          Jin 20 January 2014 20: 20
          +1
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Thank God and Merkushkin. Before him, Artyakov was, Vova, by the way, posed, so he and the VAZ and the region collapsed.


          Hello fellow countryman! Yes, Artyakov kapets what a nonsense was sad They say about Merkushkin, sensible like a man ... we'll see.
      4. Oskar
        Oskar 17 January 2014 15: 00
        +7
        Quote: Tersky
        AND THE PUBLIC HAS BEEN SUBSIDIDED

        And now paying fees, we subsidize EP!
    5. Andrey57
      Andrey57 17 January 2014 10: 52
      16
      It's even easier, they got into the WTO for oil and gas and several other raw material clans, only 30 families with a small one, they will fatten, for the rest of the country, about 85%, the fate of cattle in the stall is prepared, and so that it does not even rock the boat , he needs to be brought to complete dependence on the authorities, since the beggar does not really care about anything, since he is completely focused on the elementary survival of his family. Energopayki - the first steps to corral the cattle into the stall. and then the rest of the communal services will be transferred to a similar system, in accordance with the "laws of economics."
      Mikhail Khazin writes in his works that as the structural crisis develops, the "Pie" for the Russian "elites" will inevitably decrease and it will not be enough for everyone, as before. Redistribution of this "pie" will begin and the transfer of the entire burden of financial costs onto the shoulders of the poorest part of the population, and in our country it is the same 85% of the population. This is what we see in the form of "songs about social norms of consumption." And nm one of those who pursues this vile policy did not say a word about the fact that our climate in most of the territory is not at all the same as in Europe or mattresses, despite the fact that we still consume 2 times less electricity than in Europe.
      1. Garrin
        Garrin 17 January 2014 12: 11
        +6
        Quote: Andrey57
        Mikhail Khazin writes in his works that, as the structural crisis develops, the "Pie" for the Russian "elites" will inevitably decrease and it will not be enough for everyone, as before. Redistribution of this "pie" will begin and the transfer of the entire burden of financial costs onto the shoulders of the poorest part of the population, and in our country it is the same 85% of the population. This is what we see in the form of "songs about social norms of consumption."

        That's right. I wrote and talked about this without Khazin for a long time.
      2. Jin
        Jin 17 January 2014 12: 30
        +7
        Quote: Andrey57
        Power rations - the first steps on the cattle corral to the stall.


        Yes, no colleague, far from the first! How many have already been ...
    6. Gluxar_
      Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 13: 16
      -4
      Quote: ReifA
      Yes, everything is simple - they found another way to milk the people. The rest is husk.

      The initiative is dubious, but it forces owners to better understand the relationship with the housing department.
      We have introduced social norms since September. There were no changes. The house has a fridge, 2 TVs, two computers, a washing machine, a kettle and all small things. Social norm 190 kW / h, month after month I fall within the limits of social norm. The same for ODPU. Tariff 3,50 per kilowatt. A month for a family of 4 = x people, 700-750 rubles are obtained.

      What has changed is that the local housing department did not bother with calculations and now we pay directly to the supplier. From the second month they began to "play around" with the readings of the ODPU, increasing them by 2-3 times. But unlike in previous years, residents quickly realized that it was worth defending their rights. They organized a meeting, chose an initiative group to verify the readings of the general house meters. As a result, the markups of the previous ones were recalculated for 4 months and everything returned to normal. Now we are discussing the issue of repairing the basement and replacing pipes, which has not happened for the last 20 years.

      My opinion is that there is nothing wrong with social norms. Moreover, it is most likely a "light form" of subsidies for pensioners in the context of future tariff increases. At the very least, this encourages people to save energy. I myself replaced conventional lamps with energy-saving ones back in 2008 and did not regret it a single day. Some have not changed even once.

      So all sorts of "apocalypses" for our people should not be drawn and frightened either. Why is this being done and why is it necessary to save and not increase generation? Well, probably our country has a slightly different outlook on the future. After all, it is not so important how much each kilowatt costs, because for production you still need to burn several kilograms of fuel. So it is better not to measure consumption against the West, but to develop energy-saving technologies. One of the computers is a laptop, and it does not consume 60 kW per month, as described in the article.
      1. Goodmen
        Goodmen 17 January 2014 14: 32
        +5
        There is nothing wrong with frugality, and you are absolutely right in that. Only the people of power do not believe because of previous cases of its unrighteous, but the rage of the unbridled))))))))))))
        He sees only what he is used to seeing, i.e. the very essence of the next reform)))))))))
        This is equivalent to:
        1) Blooming garden. People from this garden are raising money for a new flowerbed with strange flowers. What's bad about it? Residents hand over money and after some time receive the promised flowerbed.
        2) Garbage-wildly wrecked garden. Constant requisitions for reforming into a flowering garden. Mountains of newly imported garbage. Trees without knots, they say it is necessary, so progressive. Poor garden paths in pits and potholes))))) Instead of birds of paradise - hellish crows))) And here they offer residents to chip in a new flowerbed with strange flowers. What's bad about it? )))))))))))
        1. Gluxar_
          Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 18: 53
          -2
          Quote: Goodmen
          There is nothing wrong with frugality, and you are absolutely right in that. Only the people of power do not believe because of previous cases of its unrighteous, but the rage of the unbridled))))))))))))
          He sees only what he is used to seeing, i.e. the very essence of the next reform)))))))))
          This is equivalent to:
          1) Blooming garden. People from this garden are raising money for a new flowerbed with outlandish flowers. What's bad about it? Residents hand over money and after some time receive the promised flowerbed.
          2) Garbage-wildly wrecked garden. Constant requisitions for reforming into a flowering garden. Mountains of newly imported garbage. Trees without knots, they say it is necessary, so progressive. Poor garden paths in pits and potholes))))) Instead of birds of paradise - hellish crows))) And here residents are offered to chip in a new flowerbed with outlandish flowers. What's bad about it? ))))))))))))

          What nonsense in your head? Do you yourself understand what you write?
          1. The first example is clear and true, and it happens.
          2. But the second is some kind of distorted perception of yours. If they take something from you, then they give it to you. We have well-groomed flower beds near houses, because no one pays for them. In Europe, residents pay for everything. And we have exactly the way that you want to pay and get it.

          Where your indignation is directed is not clear. You perceive something wrong.
          1. Goodmen
            Goodmen 18 January 2014 01: 22
            0
            2. I’ll tie a scarf, a knot tighter, and I will go weeding through a lead cold ...
      2. Fin
        Fin 17 January 2014 17: 13
        +4
        Quote: Gluxar_
        Social norm 190 kW / h, month after month I fall within the limits of social norm.

        Will you fit into the norm of 65 kW / h? About this and the article that every official from the "bully" sets norms.
        1. Gluxar_
          Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 18: 59
          -1
          Quote: Fin
          Will you fit into the norm of 65 kW / h? About this and the article that every official from the "bully" sets norms.

          Where is this norm? We have 96 kWh per person. And what does "fit in" mean? Do you even understand what the conversation is about? Are you forbidden to burn more? You just get a DISCOUNT on the consumption rate. Anything higher you pay at the same rates. The growth of tariffs is a separate conversation and has nothing to do with social norms.
          The consumption rate is not "bread cards", as the author of this vyser is trying to show. These are discount coupons that reward rational people.

          And the norms are set not from the bulldozer, but on the basis of the "necessary energy consumption". If you are so interested in this area, go to courses for HOA workers. They are held in each city several times a month, free of charge. There you can ask questions and you will understand how and what is happening. I was at such a meeting, a local official came and told everything. Anyone can ask a question and suggest any changes. All this is taken into account in the development of the final bill, as long as this is a pilot start.

          So if you want to do something useful, do it. But sitting on your ass and cursing everything a lot of mind is not necessary.
          1. Fin
            Fin 17 January 2014 22: 36
            +3
            Quote: Gluxar_
            Where is this norm? We have 96 kWh per person. And what does "fit in" mean? Do you even understand what the conversation is about? Are you forbidden to burn more?

            I quote the article:
            In the Trans-Baikal Territory, the norm is 65 kW / h, in the Krasnoyarsk Territory - 75 kW / h, in the Rostov Region - 96 kW / h.

            Quote: Gluxar_
            And the norms are set not from the bulldozer, but on the basis of the "necessary energy consumption".

            Are you familiar with the card? Now explain where the winter is longer and colder: in Rostov or the Trans-Baikal Territory? And who counted so? Where is that taken into account?
            To ensure that your post does not work vyser, read the article carefully.
            Yes, about enter, it is a synonym for the word "fall within the social norm" from your post.
    7. atalef
      atalef 17 January 2014 14: 46
      +5
      Quote: ReifA
      Yes, everything is simple - they found another way to milk the people. The rest is husk.

      Yes, the norms are just ridiculous, it is even below the poverty level. Worldwide . the level of electricity consumption - characterizes the total wealth. Here they are just trying to get rotten and not give a normal life
      1. Gluxar_
        Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 19: 13
        -5
        Quote: atalef
        Yes, the norms are just ridiculous, it is even below the poverty level. Worldwide . the level of electricity consumption - characterizes the total wealth. Here they are just trying to get rotten and not give a normal life

        What is this nonsense? What is the relationship between poverty and electricity consumption rates? And what is the cost of the energy itself. Remove the social rate discount and calculate the cost of excess kilowatts. In Russia, 3,62 for ANY kilowatt and 3,5 for "standard".
        In Europe, the cost of ANY kilowatt costs from 10 rubles. In Germany from 11 rubles. Plus there are various "environmental fees". That is, energy costs at least 3 times more.
        What kind of poverty are we talking about?
        Article vyser and cheap provocation.
        There are similar norms everywhere, in Ukraine, for many years.
    8. Stalnov I.P.
      Stalnov I.P. 17 January 2014 15: 05
      +3
      The whole government is in dilapidated housing and put on lemits and the salary of a nurse.
    9. The comment was deleted.
    10. Stalker
      Stalker 17 January 2014 17: 00
      +1
      Yes, everything is simple - they found another way to milk the people. The rest is husk.

      Oh well !!! Again Dima stirs up water. Sales of household appliances will fall. Mistresses will return to the broom and dustpan. We will wash in washing machines at work (who has this opportunity), and charge mobile phones too. We will bring home boiling water from work in thermoses in the evening, to a cup of tea before going to bed. MR. BEARS, DOESN'T IT SEE YOU THAT YOU ARE GOING OUT OF MIND ????? wassat fool
    11. alone
      alone 17 January 2014 23: 48
      +1
      Quote: ReifA
      Yes, everything is simple - they found another way to milk the people. The rest is husk.


      Milking is almost nothing. One drop))
  2. TAIM
    TAIM 17 January 2014 08: 04
    11
    and then they also want to introduce a limit on mountains and cold water supply. the plans are the same for gas. it will be necessary to install meters and gas. In short, more fun and more fun will live by international standards.
    1. Jin
      Jin 17 January 2014 12: 10
      +5
      Quote: TAIM
      it will be necessary to install meters and gas


      Is the counter itself bad? No, on the contrary! I have a second year, I "beat off" myself a long time ago (I live in a private house), tk. in the summer I pay practically nothing (gas heating). The TARIFFS that our umans want to introduce are bad, so that they are lifted and not immediately lowered (((
      1. Ascetic
        Ascetic 17 January 2014 12: 45
        +5
        Quote: Jin
        . The TARIFFS that our umans want to introduce are bad, so that they are lifted and not immediately lowered (((


        I’m taking my fat and looking at about 60%, it’s not going to RATE, that is, utility bills, but to OPERATION AND SERVICE, that is, as they say for the maintenance and repair of housing,heating takes the second place in price. In total it is about 80% of payments. I don’t know, maybe you get more light and gas than thieves do communal services, but this is exactly what we have. The rest is the so-called. tariffs of monopolies are already trifles compared to this. Bads are not TARIFFS but local communal crook, covered by administration and law enforcement.Here we have all the plumbers and electricians-janitors from the villages of Central Asia in the remote control, do not need to explain why and who covers all this? And for example, in the same city in the suburbs, the picture is completely different, there is more order and openness and there are almost no Gaster, at least in a communal apartment.
        And the fact that they roof here is an example from fresh
        The deputy chief of police for the Moscow district "Biryulyovo Vostochnoye" was detained on suspicion of assisting the organizers of illegal business, the press service of the Main Directorate of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation for Moscow reported.

        The deputy chief of police of the "Biryulyovo Vostochnoye" police department detained
        In general, Primakov correctly said on the Mercury forum
        ,
        neoliberals are usually emphasize the monopoly inherent in natural monopoliesbut do not pay due attention to "oligarchic" monopoly of private business, which, for example, leads through trade to higher prices for food and other consumer goods. This is where one of the direct causes of inflation in Russia is.

        And you from the Gaidar Forum say everything about tariffs ... Well, wait for the guys of the second coming of Chubais with Mints with free oligarchic comprador capital instead of officials and Putin's bloody gebni.
        Something no one screams that the eggs in the retail chains are already gold at 70 rubles. and I apologize for the average pension only, it’s left to go ... When the intermediary sits on the intermediary, it comes to the point that in France the real price of rolls is only 7% of the final price-93% goes to speculators .. And you tariffs are, among other things, FROZEN in 2015-2016. limited by inflation. But OPERATIONAL payments depend solely on LOCAL management companies.
        exist utilities consumption rates, which are different in each region. The establishment of these standards is the prerogative of local authorities, who are actively using this tool. As a result, paradoxical situations arise where, for example, payment at a reduced rate for a reduction in water consumption will ultimately mean an increase in fees,
        несмотря на Putin's decree about 6%, Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev allowed raising utility tariffs for citizens in the second half of 2013 within 12%, provided that there was no growth in the first half.

        The rationale is simple. If prices rise not from January 1, as it was before 2012, but from July 1, then this means that the output is exactly 6 presidential percent.
        So we are waiting for the liberals to come to power and overthrow the hated Putin. The rake has probably been standing in the hallway for a long time ..
        1. Jin
          Jin 17 January 2014 14: 26
          +1
          Quote: Ascetic
          eggs in retail chains are already gold at 70 rubles. and on average I apologize for retirement only to go to shit to go left ..


          "And then Ostap suffered ..." Dear Ascetic, I usually read your comments with interest and find a lot of common sense in them, but here you either did not understand me a bit, or you understood, but did not penetrate! In the post, I continued the topic I had begun and I mean exactly those tariffs that want to introduce by analogy with light! You know what I mean? And that is exactly bad, bad and bad again!!!
          I will explain how we do with gas. Before installing the counter, I paid about 1700 rubles / month, now, as I understand it, even more expensive! At what from October to April (well, it depends on the weather) I drowned in a gas boiler and paid 1700r, and from April to October - NO and still paid 1700r! Do you think there is a difference? Now in the indicated period, and this is almost 5-6 months, i.e. 8500-10200 rubles of savings (at the same old rates again) !!! Well, a little less, because I use a stove, but it's a penny !!! and if they are driven under any * e tariffs, then none of the consumers will definitely benefit from this! I wrote about this!
          They write - it should cost as much as it costs! Yes, damn it, then I want to pay for as much as I burned gas, without any increase in cost and they went to f * ck with their tariffs !!!
          1. Ascetic
            Ascetic 17 January 2014 21: 32
            0
            Quote: Jin
            Before installing the counter, I paid about 1700 rubles / month, now, as I understand it, even more expensive!


            Well, for example, if there is no meter according to the Mosoblgaz standard of 10 cubic meters per person at a price of 5.18, I pay accordingly 51.80 for each registered family member a month, regardless of whether I exceeded these!) cubes or not. How many thousands you say. Have you gone crazy?
            But in a house with AGV they take without a meter they take, based on the standard, 7 cubic meters per square meter at a price of 4.50 per cubic meter, respectively, the square of housing will cost 31.47. So for a house with AGV 100 sq.m without a meter you pay about 3100 rubles.
            If there is one, you pay for the cube of actually consumed gas all the same 4.50 per cube. I strongly doubt that with gas heating you will spend 100 cubes per month
            So all the rest of the payments, except for the approved standards if the meter is UNLAWFUL, gas is not included in the common house needs of the apartment building (AGV is your business how to pay it to the meter, but it’s more profitable for the meter) as well as electricity where the common device is at the input. So I don’t know why you have no difference.
            1. Jin
              Jin 17 January 2014 23: 40
              0
              Quote: Ascetic
              So I don’t know why you have no difference.


              He answered in PM, I’m saying that there is a big difference.
            2. Vladimir 23rus
              Vladimir 23rus 23 January 2014 23: 42
              0
              In winter, up to 1200 cubic meters per month in the Krasnodar Territory! (Count in the cold winter.)
  3. Know-nothing
    Know-nothing 17 January 2014 08: 09
    +6
    Aunty reads about the implementation of the state defense order?
    1. Mart
      17 January 2014 08: 29
      +6
      Quote: Dunno
      Aunty reads about the implementation of the state defense order?


      Plus from me.
  4. Onizuka teacher
    Onizuka teacher 17 January 2014 08: 13
    +7
    They brought Europe to the people by raising prices, amazing deputies in the State Duma. By the way, do the products come to European prices too?
    1. Mart
      17 January 2014 08: 28
      15
      Quote: Teacher Onizuka
      They brought Europe to the people by raising prices, amazing deputies in the State Duma. By the way, do the products come to European prices too?


      According to partially verified rumors, market limits will also be imposed on products. 1 kg of sugar per month - social norms, for the second kilogram you will have to pay at the superlimit price. Social indicators are not set for pressed caviar and wine from 1979 grapes.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Hon
        Hon 17 January 2014 09: 03
        -7
        Quote: Mart
        According to partially verified rumors, market limits will also be imposed on products. 1 kg of sugar per month - social norms, for the second kilogram you will have to pay at the superlimit price. Social indicators are not set for pressed caviar and wine from 1979 grapes.

        But this is nonsense, the government does not affect the price of sugar. Moreover, you can always drive up to the farmer and buy a couple of bags, much cheaper than in the store.
        1. Mart
          17 January 2014 09: 12
          15
          Quote: Hon
          But this is nonsense, the government does not affect the price of sugar. Moreover, you can always drive up to the farmer and buy a couple of bags, much cheaper than in the store.


          Sense of humor, wake up, the sun has risen.
          1. Hon
            Hon 17 January 2014 09: 27
            +2
            Quote: Mart
            Sense of humor, wake up, the sun has risen.

            smile
          2. The comment was deleted.
        2. common man
          common man 17 January 2014 10: 26
          +2
          From Siberia, but to Ukraine (or where do we produce sugar in Cuba?) To a farmer for a bag of sugar! Precisely cheaper. than in the store. And for rice to China.
          1. 311ove
            311ove 17 January 2014 11: 42
            0
            Wait, wait, gentlemen, but where do the farmers produce sugar ??? For this business, large factories are built ... Many of them are also cut now. But the rest we have, in any case, "as if in one kubla" ... a corporation, as in cement, for example. bully
      3. mamba
        mamba 17 January 2014 14: 21
        +1
        Quote: Mart
        On the caviar and wine from grapes from the 1979 harvest, social norms are not established.

        Fi, what you, my friend, bad, bite! negative For whom do you hold our greatest? request
        Caviar is only beluga and only granular. The coiled - pressed - this is for the poor. For them, it’s fierce, if income allows. yes
        Champagne - only "Dom Perignon Moet and Chandon" vintage 1976. Since 1958 it has been supplied to the British royal court. good
  5. makarov
    makarov 17 January 2014 08: 16
    10
    In Ukraine, where electricity is "in bulk" and a lot is exported, they have long ago made a limit of 75 kW / h per month FOR a SUBSCRIBER of a simple individual, and the word "subscriber" means a single apartment without taking into account the presence of residents there. They introduced them in silence, voted, and wanted to spit on public opinion, since the owners of the oblenergos are Akhmetovs, Yanukovychs, Firtashs and others like them, that is, persons representing the state power.
    1. botur
      botur 17 January 2014 11: 56
      +3
      In Belarus, it looks like this.

      For citizens living in houses equipped with electric stoves, with a monthly consumption of up to 250 kWh of electricity, payment will be made at the rates established by law. When consuming from 250 to 400 kWh, inclusive - at established tariffs using an increasing coefficient of 1,3, but not higher than tariffs, providing full reimbursement of economically justified costs for their provision. If electricity consumption exceeds 400 kWh per month, payment will be made at tariffs that provide full reimbursement of economically justified costs for their provision.

      For those whose houses are not equipped with electric stoves, with some exceptions, a similar system for paying for electricity is provided. So, with a monthly consumption of up to 150 kWh - at the established rates, from 150 to 300 kWh, inclusive - at tariffs with an increase factor of 1,3, over 300 kWh - at tariffs that provide full cost recovery.

      For citizens whose houses are not equipped with electric stoves and centralized hot water supply and natural gas supply systems, with consumption up to 300 kWh inclusive, payment is provided at the established rates, over 300 kWh - at tariffs with an increasing coefficient of 1,3.

      The above payment procedure does not apply to large families and family-type orphanages; families raising children in which both parents in a complete family (single parent in an incomplete family) are group I and II disabled, and also in which one of the parents in a full family is a group I disabled person, and the second takes care of him and receives an allowance prescribed by law; single-parent families raising a disabled child; Citizens making payments for electric energy at tariffs differentiated in accordance with the legislation for different periods of time. This also does not apply to the volumes of electric energy consumed by permanently installed electrical receivers (electric boilers) with connected power of more than 5
      1. atalef
        atalef 17 January 2014 15: 02
        +5
        Quote: botur
        In Belarus, it looks like this.

        in Israel it looks like this. There are no norms - spend as much as you want. Price per kilowatt - 4 rubles. The state compensates pensioners and low-income groups of the population 200kW per month - i.e. pays half. It looks simple. In an electronic company, the state automatically transfers funds according to lists and pensioners (like my mother say) pay 200% for the first 50 kW.
  6. Metlik
    Metlik 17 January 2014 08: 18
    +8
    All these norms were invented to reduce the Russian population in Russia. At first they brought to poverty, now they will forbid to buy electrical appliances, so as not to repair the power supply.
    1. atalef
      atalef 17 January 2014 15: 04
      +1
      Quote: Metlik
      All these norms were invented to reduce the Russian population in Russia. At first they brought to poverty, now they will forbid to buy electrical appliances, so as not to repair the power supply.

      Such an impression. that not Russian Russians pay differently.
      1. Metlik
        Metlik 17 January 2014 15: 34
        +2
        Quote: atalef
        Such an impression. that not Russian Russians pay differently.

        They may pay the same amount, but one can only dream of such subsidies as Chechnya, for example.
  7. Sanyht
    Sanyht 17 January 2014 08: 27
    25
    ELECTRICITY SHOULD COST, HOW IN THE WEST ??? ... FORGOTTING that a black man in Europe has unemployment benefits higher than our salary?
  8. askort154
    askort154 17 January 2014 08: 29
    15
    Just once to see - "the pilot project will be implemented on Rublevka".
    1. Mart
      17 January 2014 08: 30
      14
      Quote: askort154
      Just once to see - "the pilot project will be implemented on Rublevka".


      For them, there are likely to introduce benefits.
      1. Ascetic
        Ascetic 17 January 2014 11: 28
        16
        Quote: Mart
        For them, there are likely to introduce benefits.


        Yes, you can’t make them pay an extra ruble, it won’t work there ...
        There have been cases when residents have achieved their goal and the cost of a communal apartment decreased. This happened in the village of Nikologorsky (Cotton Way) - one of the most famous and largest on Nikolina Gora, where there are 220 cottages and infrastructure. The owners seriously took up the management company, conducted an audit of its activities and as a result optimized operating costs from 800-1000 to 250-300 dollars per month. fellow

        Except for utility bills - light, gas, water, which go through the meter, the operational in the "golden ghetto" look something like this
        Barvikha-2 and Romashkovo-3 - $ 1 per square meter of house area
        Novorizhsky, the noble estate - $ 10 per hundred square meters Baltic - $ 300
        Petrovo-Dalnee - $ 100-130 Forest Stream - $ 150
        Novospasskoye - up to $ 100 Myakinino - $ 350 Polynovka - $ 150
        Naturally, in order to maintain such a level according to the law of communicating vessels, if they arrive, then most will lose. When I went to Petrovo-Dalnee, Gorki. Znamenskoye, Nikolina Gora, where Stalin’s path used to catch myself thinking that this is a good area of ​​fire, but here a small toe and a crease for advancing to the assault group's throw, and on a high-rise it would be nice to establish a firing point, and in the lowland a mortar battery ... and there will be happiness to these inhabitants ..
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 17 January 2014 12: 09
          +9
          Quote: Ascetic
          I find myself thinking that here is a good sector of fire, and here is a toe and a fold for advancing to the assault group, and on a high-rise it would be nice to set a firing point, and in the low ground there is a mortar battery ... and there will be those inhabitants of happiness ..

          Do you take volunteers? laughing
        2. Jin
          Jin 17 January 2014 12: 39
          +2
          Quote: Ascetic
          Yes, you can’t make them pay an extra ruble, it won’t work there ...


          Of course! After all, there they just dug in, who himself makes everyone pay! sad
        3. Horla
          Horla 17 January 2014 12: 44
          +3
          Increasingly visited thoughts like Ascetic.
    2. Nayhas
      Nayhas 17 January 2014 09: 23
      +5
      Quote: askort154
      Just once to see - "the pilot project will be implemented on Rublevka".

      Are there any electric meters there?
      1. yehat
        yehat 17 January 2014 13: 18
        +4
        there is, but there the energy supply is under special agreements.
        as a result, per kilowatt it is paid 4-10 times cheaper than ordinary citizens.
        The mansion with outbuildings with a total area of ​​about 500 sq. M and a lot of equipment pays for energy as much as an ordinary city apartment.
        In the summer there was an article about this ...
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Jin
        Jin 17 January 2014 14: 28
        +1
        Quote: Nayhas
        Are there any electric meters there?


        Yeah, they just spin in the opposite direction! And their owners are paid extra at our expense ...
  9. marxlight
    marxlight 17 January 2014 08: 30
    +4
    Well, if it is pushed through, it will not add to the popularity of the authorities. It would be better to shake the snickering power engineers, on the contrary, there would be solid pluses.
    1. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z 17 January 2014 13: 20
      +5
      I think the matter is not only in the energy sector, but also in the governing authority.
      I saw something like on TV the alignment of prices for gasoline and diesel fuel.
      So there is almost half the tax, and also VAT and it turns out.

      And I would like social standards for electricity first for themselves and for deputies with local authorities to try on those who came up with this.
      For half a year we would live according to invented standards, and then we would discuss!

      And then, as in the demotivator:
      Why do those who live on the cost of living introduce us a living wage ?!
  10. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 17 January 2014 08: 32
    26
    Our state is doing everything to shift its spending and responsibilities onto the shoulders of the country's population. And it is not necessary to say that this is done by officials, bypassing state bodies and the president. It is at the behest of the president that such "innovations" are made. I hope you all remember how a few years ago, Mr. P mentioned at some meeting that the payment for housing and communal services in Russia should be at the European level in the amount of 300-500 euros, and in some countries, allegedly, there is even payment for housing and communal services in advance. Allegedly, in Russia they consume the same amount and even more services than in Europe, but pay less. So the officials immediately reacted, literally the following payments came to people with payments increased by 50-70%, and in some places even two or three times. An incredible noise then rose and pensioners in some places, protesting, took to the streets. The authorities immediately backed down. Poo..n, he said that supposedly he was misunderstood and that yes, it is necessary to bring housing and utilities payments to the European level, but gradually, with the growth of salaries and the type, as they approach the average European, then higher tariffs should be introduced. Dashingly got out. And look carefully: after that, every year some mythical "statistical" data on the "growth" of average wages in Russia began to be published. And so, it reached in 2013, allegedly more than 27000 rubles, and in 2014 it should reach 30000 rubles. What is not a reason to introduce "European" rates for housing and communal services. And the "go-ahead" was given from above. So, the author is right a thousand times when he writes that the power, and the most supreme one, is in collusion with entrepreneurs and business executives who are too presumptuous and insolent from impunity. The next stage in the "Europeanization" of housing and utilities payments will be the introduction of prepayment.
    1. kostiknet
      kostiknet 17 January 2014 10: 45
      10
      But it is necessary for the people's deputies, Putin and Co. "average salary" to pay. Why should a CHINUSHA have a salary TEN AND HUNDRED times higher than the minimum wage? Everything is clear with businessmen, they earn money, but what is happiness for this "civil servant"? The Martians have completely forgotten how the population of Russia on planet Earth lives with our salaries.
      1. Starover_Z
        Starover_Z 17 January 2014 13: 22
        +1
        And let them pay for their average salary their housing and the entered electric energy!
        As well as salaries to their drivers and gasoline for personal cars!
      2. Jin
        Jin 17 January 2014 14: 31
        +1
        Quote: kostiknet
        But it is necessary for the people's deputies, Putin and Co. pay "average salary".


        I support! Even so, the living wage of a working person, in Samara, is about 8500 rubles / month ... only today I heard on the radio ... and the road to work became even more bleak ...
    2. atalef
      atalef 17 January 2014 15: 11
      +2
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      P mentioned at some meeting that the payment of housing and communal services should be in Russia at the level of Europe in the amount of 300-500 euros

      I don’t know how in Europe, but we have a municipal tax of 1200 bucks per year I (depending on the size of the land and the prestige of the area) I pay to the maximum. and there are areas where he is 200 bucks a year. , then for water and sewage - 300 bucks a year (on average), well, and electricity (we are warming it - which is not long, but in the summer the air-conditioners work without stopping).
      In general, all this is much-nm less than 300 euros per month.
    3. 787nkx
      787nkx 17 January 2014 18: 20
      +1
      Our "guarantor" in the first term, when they just started talking about the WTO,
      he publicly commented on the WTO’s demands for raising the price of all energy heaters to world ones. Then he said very beautifully that our bowels and all that is our natural and integral miracle that we bask in our harsh winters.
      And it should cost much less in Texas, where you do not need to warm anything and everything is hotter. In general, figs are for you, not a price increase.
      What we observe today:
      gasoline - almost at the level
      gas - every year more and more fun
      It remains to establish electricity and everything will be as required by the WTO.
  11. FC SKIF
    FC SKIF 17 January 2014 08: 34
    15
    My parents live in the private sector and they are very active retirees. For example, they grow geese and ducks. To do this, you need an incubator, an electric pump, good lighting. With the entry of such norms, they, as they say, sailed. By the way, it was from them that I learned about this norm. There was not much joy in their eyes. They will have to collect mushrooms, collect chtoli, or all sorts of herbs (it seems that entry into the forests is still free).
    1. GreatRussia
      GreatRussia 17 January 2014 08: 42
      -3
      Quote: FC Skif
      . With the entry of such norms, they, as they say, sailed.

      And what is the norm and cost per sq / h in your region and what is the cost above the norm?
    2. 311ove
      311ove 17 January 2014 10: 07
      +7
      Just in case, I asked about getting out of the forest, otherwise ... hi
  12. suomi
    suomi 17 January 2014 08: 35
    +6
    We sit without light. We will increase the birth rate. What else to do in the dark? We will increase the birth rate and save Russia. smile
    1. RBLip
      RBLip 17 January 2014 13: 14
      12
      Quote: suomi
      We sit without light. We will increase the birth rate. What else to do in the dark? We will increase the birth rate, save Russia

      without light - okay. without heat - okay. no roads - okay. with normal cops only in TV shows - okay. with the army only on the star channel - okay. with medicine in the "Interns" - okay. I wonder what else to stir up such Pu with the company, so that people say enough? FUCKED THESE NITS. SOON YOU WOULD BURST ALREADY.
      1. Jin
        Jin 17 January 2014 14: 32
        +7
        Quote: RBLip
        Quote: suomi
        We sit without light. We will increase the birth rate. What else to do in the dark? We will increase the birth rate, save Russia

        without light - okay. without heat - okay. no roads - okay. with normal cops only in TV shows - okay. with the army only on the star channel - okay. with medicine in the "Interns" - okay. I wonder what else to stir up such Pu with the company, so that people say enough? FUCKED THESE NITS. SOON YOU WOULD BURST ALREADY.


        A plus! Could put + 1000! I wonder who pasted a minus and for what? Like every word in 10!
  13. a.hamster55
    a.hamster55 17 January 2014 08: 35
    +3
    To begin with, it would be necessary to carry out a xkriment in Moscow, having previously strengthened the protection of the Moscow Kremlin. And in the provinces, a couple of riot policemen will have to be attached to each electrician, otherwise they will be "short-circuited".
  14. Gray-haired Siberian
    Gray-haired Siberian 17 January 2014 08: 42
    13
    Well, vote for them! Who will say that the elections do not decide anything, that everything is falsified - I object. Maybe the bourgeoisie will not give up power without a war, but if at least 2/3 of the population votes against them, they will think about it. And if we have the other way around, the people will vote 2/3 for them, then what should they be afraid of? And before the election, Pu again says a couple of correct phrases, smiles sweetly and again 2/3 for them. Is it really not clear that they cannot be trusted ?!
    1. yehat
      yehat 17 January 2014 13: 27
      +1
      Are serious alternatives to power allowed at the polls? They are diluted with all sorts of psychopaths such as Zhirik, etc. And people choose the smaller of the ZOL. They have no alternatives! If someone seriously tries to organize a political struggle, then he has no chance, because
      1. without a party you are nobody, and whether there will be a party or not, it is not you who decides
      2. All permissions for advertising, fundraising, public speaking must also be obtained
      3. Even if everything is there, they will cut all the way to the media and no one will hear you.
      And in the elections no one will read your program.

      The only way to somehow rise is to follow the path of the Nazis in the book of minekampf:
      daily gather in taverns and beat, beat, beat ...
      But this is criminality, and with this in the election, too.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. mamba
      mamba 17 January 2014 14: 42
      +2
      Quote: Gray-haired Siberian
      if at least 2/3 of the population vote against them, they will be thoughtful.

      Comrade Stalin once said: "It doesn't matter how they vote; it's important how they count." yes
  15. Yun Klob
    Yun Klob 17 January 2014 08: 46
    +9
    In some regions = more light, in some less, colder - warmer, there is gas - there is no gas (some houses even have electric stoves). Lawmakers generally do not pull the strap.
    It's just that a bear is stupidly and idioticly promoting its energy-saving light bulbs.
  16. ed65b
    ed65b 17 January 2014 08: 51
    16
    Thanks Oleg touched upon the painful, and I won’t know how to deal with this. But they are torn away from us in full, and by rich Pinocchio poh. how much to pay, and they will leave a loophole for themselves 100%. I feel that air consumption standards will be introduced soon, we will breathe through once. But how will they in the Caucasus introduce these norms if they cannot raise money without norms? We will pay for them, and already pay all their expenses and theft. Bl..y even buy a machine.
  17. ed65b
    ed65b 17 January 2014 08: 52
    +7
    damn what to do ??? As rams, they have us in all places, and we all nod and nod. You have to go out into the streets. These rulers famously failed. people are dissatisfied so it’s not us it’s your guber atu its atu. Or maybe really Atu all of them?
    1. Jin
      Jin 17 January 2014 14: 37
      +5
      Quote: ed65b
      You have to go out into the streets.


      Colleague, they adopted such laws there, go just go out, but try just say something! Ur * odes will reproach with a blow! And so long ago all the sticks on the hump must be driven! They know this and pisses, they just bred cops around themselves ... like parasites and bribe takers themselves. It’s true that they did it, but somehow it’s not very noticeable!
  18. La-5
    La-5 17 January 2014 08: 58
    +6
    It is not for nothing that the State Duma was nicknamed the State Duma by the people.
  19. Same lech
    Same lech 17 January 2014 09: 01
    +6
    In general, we disentangle the consequences of the CHUBAIS REFORMS in electricity.
    1. ed65b
      ed65b 17 January 2014 17: 45
      +1
      Quote: The same Lech
      In general, we disentangle the consequences of the CHUBAIS REFORMS in electricity.

      S.uka, he was Red, like singing fairy tales about privatization, I realized that all P.I.
  20. Boris55
    Boris55 17 January 2014 09: 03
    +4
    So they set us standards for that, and does anyone take into account the biological needs of a person? Where is the sound expert opinion of the Academy of Medical Sciences? No! So, until it is gone, all these restrictions are complete nonsense and mockery of human nature.
    ps
    Very strange way
    force to breed
    go to bed early
    and not be washed ... wassat
    1. runway
      runway 17 January 2014 10: 21
      +5
      And Zhirinovsky is here, as here, with the rules of sexual life once a quarter .... Here is how he will control it in the dark?
    2. ed65b
      ed65b 17 January 2014 17: 48
      0
      Quote: Boris55
      Does anyone take into account the biological needs of man?

      Damn, as soon as I got to this place in koment, I thought you thought about the norm for feces and urine to introduce laughing Just do not share these thoughts with the government or they will introduce it.
  21. zadorin1974
    zadorin1974 17 January 2014 09: 03
    13
    In our Perm Territory, bringing natural gas to the house and connecting (at least specifically for me) pours out 135 thousand plus a boiler with associated ones and the output is sky-high. Payback 15 years. According to the same scheme in the Kirov region, the connection and connection from 8 to 15 thousand (compared with relatives - I have a pipe 6 meters longer! ??? the rest is the same) At the moment, there are also these limits. In winter, okay, my electricity consumption is reduced (I invested, I put LEDs everywhere) and what to do in the summer ? At me (and practically at all) the construction does not stop - the concrete mixer, the circular one, the welder plus garden watering and what to do? Is there an administration in the village of Foki - they have not agreed with the power engineers and have been living with the generator for several years (and By the way they say that it’s much cheaper to buy a solarium every day than to pay for light) So you’ll think about either taking up a pitchfork or putting a homemade windmill. My opinion is that if my family introduces consumption standards (there are almost 7 of us Arshy will soon marry) will be a concrete opponent of the current government right up to acts of disobedience. When will these stsuki choke on their greed?
    1. Mart
      17 January 2014 09: 11
      +5
      Quote: zadorin1974
      In our Perm region, bring natural gas to the house and connect (at least specifically for me) pours into the 135 thousand plus the boiler with the attendant and the output is exorbitant.


      Within a radius of approximately 150 km from Tyumen, this same thing will cost thousands of two hundred rubles, no less. For heating with gas, for example, in December or January, residents pay about 3500 rubles at home in a hundred squares. And the price is rising.
      1. Same lech
        Same lech 17 January 2014 09: 43
        +5
        Do not forget to check in the future of gas equipment also costs a lot of money.
        1. baltika-18
          baltika-18 17 January 2014 10: 05
          +4
          Quote: The same LYOKHA
          Do not forget to check in the future of gas equipment also costs a lot of money.

          We pay for the service of 50 rubles a month, that's all. The truth has never appeared in the past year. If there is any repair, at separate prices. Gas can be spent within 150 thousand. The price for a cube is 4 rubles 30 kopecks. If the winter is not very cold, like this year, 500-600 cubic meters per month consumption. The house is private, log cabin, 4 rooms, kitchen, hallway (heated rooms). But I left the wood boiler in reserve, paralleled with gas. Chopped wood 1000 rubles per cubic electric power 3,20 , XNUMX kW / h. For now. Prices hit shorter in the pocket for a solid deal. Ivanovo region.
      2. Jin
        Jin 17 January 2014 14: 44
        +4
        Quote: Mart
        In a radius of about 150 km from Tyumen, the same will cost two hundred thousand


        I live in Samara. I’m selling a plot with a house, the buyer wants to put a house 200 sq + bath, I had 47 residential, so they ask 250 000 rubles to change part of the pipe to a larger diameter ... They say because pipe, type, end-necessary, if there was a passage, then it would be labile, and so-necessary! Well, we think what to do, we must! I’m asking the neighbors, they don’t have an end pipe, so from them 100000 were cut off for an eyeliner ... Where is the truth to be found? They squeeze money outright and it’s all legal, sort of ... Damn, where we live is simple tryndets.
        1. Yarosvet
          Yarosvet 18 January 2014 14: 49
          -1
          Quote: Jin
          Damn, where do we live
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 18 January 2014 14: 59
            +2
            Quote: Yarosvet
            Yarosvet

            Yarosvet, laid out the garbage again. For the theft of cheese in the supermarket you will not receive a term; this is an administrator, not a criminal.
            And the war veterans are not living badly here now, so-
            1. Yarosvet
              Yarosvet 18 January 2014 15: 29
              -2
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              so that-

              - the essence of juggling in this case does not change.

              So what about the 278 Criminal Code?
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 18 January 2014 15: 48
                +1
                Quote: Yarosvet
                - the essence of juggling in this case does not change.

                Still changing, petty theft 7.27 fine of at least 1000 rubles or arrest up to 15 days.
                Theft of 158, and this is already a period, depending on the part of Article 158.
                Quote: Yarosvet
                So what about the 278 Criminal Code?

                What do you want to seize power?
                1. Yarosvet
                  Yarosvet 18 January 2014 18: 20
                  +1
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Still changing, petty theft 7.27 fine of at least 1000 rubles or arrest up to 15 days
                  This is distortion, or rather exaggeration.

                  But what can you say about the correlation of prices for books and vodka, for milk and beer, for calling the indicated characters, fines, and ration?
                  Maybe you don’t know about cases when an ambulance travels longer than pizza, when veterans live in bestial conditions, you don’t know how to arrange a child in kindergarten and who buys part of the benefits required for school?

                  Yes - the text in the picture distorts and exaggerates, but the tendency is described correctly, and the essence of the distortions does not change.

                  Quote: Yarosvet
                  What do you want to seize power?
                  You asked what to present to Volodya.
                  1. Alexander Romanov
                    Alexander Romanov 21 January 2014 08: 05
                    +1
                    Quote: Yarosvet
                    This is distortion, or rather exaggeration.

                    Who I am distorting here, you said that you can get a term for a stolen cheese. I said that it’s impossible and that’s it. Or should I agree with the nonsense about 5 years in prison for a stolen cheese laughing
                    Quote: Yarosvet
                    But what can you say about the correlation of prices for books and vodka, for milk and beer, for calling the indicated characters, fines, and ration?

                    Books and vodka are different, there is cheap vodka, and there is expensive. For what is the price, where it brings you, buy a wallet and that's it.
                    Quote: Yarosvet
                    and when veterans live in bestial conditions,

                    There have been such cases before, now I can tell you that in our city all the apartments of veterans were repaired at a budget expense, others were given new housing who lived very poorly. You call this a trend. And if you recall, all these veterans lived in barracks in 90 e. You talk about this trend. In the 90s and early 2000s, you won’t get into kindergarten without a bribe, now it has become easier with us, even though there are more children.
                    As for the school, you lie again, my son goes to school and now he receives all the textbooks at school, although two years ago we bought them in a store or in a market. Yes, you need to buy a form.
                    So where is your tendency for the worst?
                    Quote: Yarosvet
                    You asked what to present to Volodya.

                    But he has seized power or you want to think so. You need to answer for the bazaar. Go write a statement on the fact of Putin’s seizure of power, file it in the Supreme Court, collect signatures or go to the rally. Although no, what rally, you are the hero of keyboard battles and a meeting with OMONOM is not included in your plans laughing
    2. jjj
      jjj 17 January 2014 10: 04
      0
      Gassing is a waste. It is generally not clear why this is offered for private households. The combination of wood heating (fuel briquettes) in modern convection-type furnaces with electric convectors gives an optimal result.
      1. Jin
        Jin 17 January 2014 15: 05
        +2
        Quote: jjj
        The combination of wood heating (fuel briquettes) in modern convection-type furnaces with electric convectors gives an optimal result.


        Chive-chive? What convectors? And half of Europe is not our gas fueled by gas? Do you understand what you wrote about? Yeah, I didn’t have enough, for complete happiness, to run with briquettes and to heat the stove! As once my grandmother with a firewood golanka! It is necessary to drive it less to China and Europe, and sell it to Ukraine by halvah, and even with installments and loans, and thump billions into various construction projects such as Sochi! Let’s sell everything to them, again, the people are just a penny only to those in power, of course, and we ourselves will rush about with briquettes! They're really fucking fucking! Then it will not be wasteful. And, what would you say, you must first raise the level of salaries at times, infrastructure, and indeed life in general, so that I could buy and provide all this economy and then die of hunger!
    3. common man
      common man 17 January 2014 10: 40
      +9
      And in the Perm Territory, the price of electricity in rural areas already in 2013 was more than 2 rubles. And you won’t get gas. And winter is not warmer than in Tyumen. In general, the number of controllers from electricity is amazing. They seem to have less linear electricians than checking ones. Moreover, the number of organizations is amazing. This is Permenergo sales, and MRSK-Urals. and some kind of multimedia from electro. And all the grandmothers chop. But the light will be cut down, there is no one to repair.
      1. zadorin1974
        zadorin1974 17 January 2014 13: 10
        +3
        With network breakdowns, we systematically sit for three four days without light (and this is in the city). The price tag for light in the house as well as in apartments (there are no discounts for the private sector) .But everyone was stuck with electronic meters with remote shutdown. The manager is sitting behind I turned you off with a computer and with one click, and for the fact that he presses the four buttons on the clave and connects you, they take eight hundred scars. The cost of chopped firewood is 4.5 thousand per lawn (God forbid that they throw three and a half cubes). But the Perm Territory is experimental, ahead of the rest
      2. mamba
        mamba 17 January 2014 14: 58
        +7
        Quote: man in the street
        They seem to have less linear electricians than checking ones.

        There was an old lady living next door to my mother who saved on electricity as much as she could. The controllers from the SPHPP came and began to shake it, why does it turn out no more than 60 kW per month? They replaced her counter, and the "native" was taken away for verification. A month later, the old woman again has 60 kW. Again they replaced the meter for her, and what they set themselves was taken away for verification. A month later, the old woman again has 60 kW. It is not known how the matter would have ended, but the old woman died. crying
        1. atalef
          atalef 17 January 2014 15: 43
          +5
          Quote: mamba
          A month later, the old woman again 60 kW. It is not known how the matter would end, but the old woman died

          Probably tried in the dark dungeons of RAO EU. They wanted to find out a terrible formula. How she deceived Chubais wassat
          1. mamba
            mamba 17 January 2014 22: 19
            +2
            Quote: atalef
            They wanted to find out a terrible formula. How she deceived Chubais

            Is it really possible? recourse
  22. Dovmont
    Dovmont 17 January 2014 09: 07
    +2
    Simply, people will stop paying for electricity or will pay at the lowest rate! Putinoids are tortured to extort money from the population, if it takes on a massive scale!
    1. Field
      Field 17 January 2014 10: 09
      +8
      Quote: Dovmont
      Simply, people will stop paying for electricity or will pay at the lowest rate! Putinoids are tortured to extort money from the population, if it takes on a massive scale!


      Well, in court, and with a court decision, accompanied by the FSSP, they will describe the property
      Apartments are already being selected, and you are tormented
      1. Garrin
        Garrin 17 January 2014 12: 19
        +8
        Quote: Field
        Well, in court, and with a court decision, accompanied by the FSSP, they will describe the property
        Apartments are already being selected, and you are tormented

        That's for sure. It’s difficult to organize production, but they learned how to make money out, worse than any racketeers.
        1. mamba
          mamba 17 January 2014 15: 01
          0
          Quote: Garrin
          they learned well to extort money, worse than any racketeers.

          No, just racketeers called collectors and hired.
      2. Starina_hank
        Starina_hank 17 January 2014 21: 16
        0
        That's right, we have a "rule of law" state.
  23. Nitarius
    Nitarius 17 January 2014 09: 16
    0
    To expel from the government - THOSE WHO THIS LAW ADVANCED AND THINKED! and the law will cancel!
  24. major071
    major071 17 January 2014 09: 25
    13
    Guess where the money from the new tariffs will go to the state treasury? yes figushki, go to the pocket of Chubais and others like them. Because our energy industry is private, everything has long been bought up, and the rest is stolen. How many new power plants were commissioned, not a single campaign. They live on old stocks and try to grab even more until it is completely cleared.
    1. yehat
      yehat 17 January 2014 13: 38
      +5
      and you dig deeper - the industry lives, but how does it live?
      In Zelenogors (Krasnoyarsk Territory), the state district power station-2 was modernized.
      We installed a "new" boiler, but this boiler is Chinese, the cheapest one with disgusting efficiency and uses fuel that needs to be brought in.
      And they could supply equipment for burning peat coal, which is mined near the station. As a result, prices are wild, everyone is squinting at each other, and the situation was created by clever people from the RAO EU, who are generally aloof.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  25. nov_tech.vrn
    nov_tech.vrn 17 January 2014 09: 28
    +7
    The liberal government of Dmitry Medvedev, especially his so-called financial and economic bloc, is thoroughly saturated with the poison of theories pushed by the group formed by the so-called Gaidar Foundation and the HSE, now, they have already managed to be well noted at the Gaidar Forum, the evil is not only that they introduce theories are saturated with hatred and contempt in Russia, but also with the fact that, having entrenched in all power structures, they support each other, allowing any areas of economic science that do not correspond to their dogmas to develop.
  26. koksalek
    koksalek 17 January 2014 09: 32
    +1
    Simply, the population will steal electricity even more than before, and there are enough examples of republican scale to follow. Well, what, they steal in a brazen arrogance and do not pay, and everything gets away with it, a bad example is contagious.
    1. Mart
      17 January 2014 09: 35
      +6
      Quote: koksalek
      Simply, the population will steal electricity even more than before, and there are enough examples of republican scale to follow. Well, what, they steal in a brazen arrogance and do not pay, and everything gets away with it, a bad example is contagious.


      In the villages, counters are already being hung on poles, moreover with remote control of consumption.
      1. SRC P-15
        SRC P-15 17 January 2014 09: 57
        +3
        Quote: Mart
        In the villages, counters are already being hung on poles, moreover with remote control of consumption.

        Meters in villages are hung on poles so that there is no connection past the meter (at the entrance to the house) and for more convenient control of electronic consumption. energy. It is not necessary to contain the extra staff of controllers, all meter readings come to the computer en. supply organization. And when the meter is in the house, try to get into this house, you will not find the owner, and some will not let them go on purpose.
        1. yehat
          yehat 17 January 2014 13: 42
          0
          I think that the knowledge of the 8th grade school is enough to understand how to slightly modernize the meter so that it shows the consumption necessary for the owner of the house)))
          1. mamba
            mamba 17 January 2014 15: 11
            +2
            Quote: yehat
            the knowledge of the 8th grade school is enough to understand how to slightly modernize the meter so that it shows the consumption needed by the owner of the house

            If the counter is induction, then yes. And if modern with a processor inside, an optical port, fixing and remembering each connection, then you need a qualified programmer and electronic engineer.
            1. 787nkx
              787nkx 17 January 2014 18: 00
              0
              Nowadays there are modern counters for sale with built-in "chemistry".
            2. Gluxar_
              Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 18: 26
              0
              Quote: mamba
              If the counter is induction, then yes. And if modern with a processor inside, an optical port, fixing and remembering each connection, then you need a qualified programmer and electronic engineer.

              Here again start the song about how to "fuck" someone. And in the end, you all get fucked up. The counter will not help to twist, the point is to defend their interests by common efforts, and not to "outwit" the neighbor.
              1. 787nkx
                787nkx 17 January 2014 18: 32
                +1
                If they catch, from the moment the meter is installed, the figure with many zeros will be calculated by the total power of household appliances, it won’t seem a little, you will turn off the noise in FIG.
                1. Gluxar_
                  Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 20: 26
                  +1
                  Quote: 787nkx
                  If they catch, from the moment the meter is installed, the figure with many zeros will be calculated by the total power of household appliances, it won’t seem a little, you will turn off the noise in FIG.

                  I agree. It will be so. But the main thing to understand is that you don’t need to fuck yourself. Live, work, assert your rights and prosper. Everyone is trying to drive us into some sort of obscurantism, where each is a wolf to everyone. and if you are not successful, then you are a failure. This Western Satanism is not inherent in the Russian soul.
                  1. T-73
                    T-73 17 January 2014 20: 53
                    +1
                    Quote: Gluxar_
                    Live, work, assert your rights and prosper

                    Too many people in the country, working people notice, are placed in such conditions that
                    Quote: Gluxar_
                    work, assert your rights

                    и
                    Quote: Gluxar_
                    prosper

                    not synonymous. Rather, and even to the point, everything is exactly the opposite. And now many are ready to steal bypassing the meters. Some from bezishodnost, some from habit, some "by principle." But who do you think steals the most?
                    "And yet he is a great rogue, tell me what is his name?" Of course, this is not Buratino ... But he is sure that everything is possible in the "country of fools"
                    1. Gluxar_
                      Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 21: 22
                      0
                      Quote: T-73
                      not synonymous. Rather, and even to the point, everything is exactly the opposite. And now many are ready to steal bypassing the meters. Some from bezishodnost, some from habit, some "by principle." But who do you think steals the most?
                      "And yet he is a great rogue, tell me what is his name?" Of course, this is not Buratino ... But he is sure that everything is possible in the "country of fools"

                      I don't want to guess on the coffee grounds. When I saw the "extra" kilowatts in my receipt, I went to the "office". We started to "tell" something about the OBPU, etc. On the next Saturday, a meeting was organized in the house, a group was selected to check the indicators. The next month, my apartment was recalculated for 300 kilowatts. I am satisfied, I defended my rights myself and how much I pay for electricity today suits me. If something changes and there are unreasonable increases, we will all already fight this. But to become "good and just" you need to take it and do it. Fight for your rights, and not shit and swear or rob your neighbors.
                      1. T-73
                        T-73 17 January 2014 22: 25
                        +1
                        I agree with you.
                        Quote: Gluxar_
                        shitting and swearing or robbing your neighbors

                        I’m not going to, and I’m not hitting others. Moreover, I’ll say, I’m shocked by my management company: a year ago, LED lamps with sound sensors were installed in the hallways of our house. I didn’t pay a dime over. But I think that this is an exception, or a regional energy saving program (this is a fantastic option). They don’t tell us. The apartment counters changed themselves, the whole house, with a margin not weak truth. But not godless. In the end, the Krasnodar counter in the Arctic can cost 1,5 -2 times more expensive))) 3rd belt, damn it. Plus installation, sealing and verification of the initial readings by the housing and communal services inspector. Only 1000 rubles. But I think this, if not an exception to the rule, is close to that. Everything is not so rosy in general. I am glad that I understand: in principle, everything is civilized possible. Only a lot of such exception towns? I think very little. And it’s stupid to fool people if most of them work at the largest energy generating enterprise in the region. His resource will end - and that’s it, the fairy tale is over. Therefore, I do not think that my shirt is closer to the body
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. DON-100
          DON-100 17 January 2014 15: 09
          0
          In fact, the requirements of energy supplying organizations for installing electricity meters on the street are illegal.
          1. atalef
            atalef 17 January 2014 15: 43
            0
            Quote: DON-100
            In fact, the requirements of energy supplying organizations for installing electricity meters on the street are illegal.

            Why
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. DON-100
      DON-100 17 January 2014 14: 39
      +3
      And the population will be punished. You do not forget that in our country it is possible to steal with impunity only in large volumes, it does not matter if it is money or something else.
      Quote: koksalek
      Well, they steal it insolently and don’t pay, and they get away with it, a bad example is contagious.
  27. pahom54
    pahom54 17 January 2014 09: 43
    32
    I appeal to members of the forum - please judge whether I bourgeois and how I personally can survive with these norms.
    I am a pensioner and disabled person, suffered 2 strokes, did not go for a long time. It has become vitally important to purchase a treadmill - NOTE !!! Not for running, but just for walking (I’m not leaving my apartment for 5 years), and I walk quietly no more than 300-400 meters a day, and even with breaks (and it no longer works), I bought a treadmill on credit, which paid 1,5 years.
    I live in a one-room apartment on the 5th floor of a 5-storey building. In recent years, such an extreme heat has begun that the first year of such heat to survive (the heart stops, figuratively speaking) - lived almost all summer in a bath with water. I bought air conditioning again on credit, including, although rarely, when the kaput comes, but even so, he manages to wind up decently kW / h.
    Further - the wife can no longer do the washing by hand - and polyarthritis, and a bunch of everything. They also bought a washing machine for 14 rubles on credit.
    And the question is: do I bourge from the fact that I have such gadgets in my apartment at home, and how can I get into these social norms AND DON'T DIE?
    I would like the unsinkable Chubais to be at least in such conditions as I, and all the deputies too.
    I am sure that many Russian people have problems with these social norms even more abruptly than mine.
    In general, this is a tattered WTO, the entry into which the leadership of the country has so long sought, except for negativity, has yielded nothing. If they require that the electricity cost US as much as they do, then why do not they demand that our salaries and pensions allow us to live worthily ???
    Chubais has pocketed the national treasure and is eating, and the poor people must replenish his vast and insatiable pockets ... Lord, how tired of everything ...
    1. Jin
      Jin 17 January 2014 15: 12
      +1
      Quote: pahom54
      I would like the unsinkable Chubais to be at least in conditions like me, and to all deputies too


      Do not get me wrong, dear! How I, too, from the very bottom of my heart wanted this for them! What would a simple person understand! Only without a Conder and cars to the heap! Yours faithfully!
    2. ed65b
      ed65b 17 January 2014 17: 55
      +1
      Quote: pahom54
      I appeal to members of the forum - please judge whether I bourgeois

      Well, judging by what the government does, you are not just a bourgeois, but a whole oligarch.
    3. Gluxar_
      Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 18: 34
      -1
      Quote: pahom54
      I am sure that many Russian people have problems with these social norms even more abruptly than mine.
      In general, this is a tattered WTO, the entry into which the leadership of the country has so long sought, except for negativity, has yielded nothing. If they require that the electricity cost US as much as they do, then why do not they demand that our salaries and pensions allow us to live worthily ???
      Chubais has pocketed the national treasure and is eating, and the poor people must replenish his vast and insatiable pockets ... Lord, how tired of everything ...

      What is your problem? The difference between the social norm and its excess is not great, a few cents. You can calculate how much each wash or heating of an electric kettle costs, in the end a few cents.
      Why succumb to such provocations? The social norm was introduced not to reduce the pay of the socially vulnerable population. Who consumes how much, he pays so much. Everything is as it was. Social norm 190 kilowatts, burned 250. So you burned so much before. Only 190 pay reduced rates. Do you want to save - save, do not want do not save.
      Why turn it upside down. Tariffs have always increased, if it were not for this phrase "social norm", there would be no noise. There are simply provocateurs who do not want people to start just thinking about how to effectively use what we have. They only need one thing for us to consume more and more like pigs. Therefore, they try to defile every common idea and distort its meaning.
      1. atalef
        atalef 17 January 2014 18: 38
        +2
        Quote: Gluxar_
        The social norm was introduced not to reduce the pay of the socially vulnerable population.

        In general, then why. In general, it’s not clear why the word is present social norm.

        Quote: Gluxar_
        Want to save - save, don't want don't save

        so
        saving is absolutely ghostly


        1. Gluxar_
          Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 20: 29
          -3
          Quote: atalef
          so
          saving is absolutely ghostly

          So what is the conversation about. The article is vyser and does not bear anything under it. 90% of the population will not notice any changes at all. Average cost overruns will be insignificant, and the difference in tariffs will be minimal. The very concept of "social norm" is introduced at least for some sort of orientation, so as not to be off the head.
          1. Field
            Field 18 January 2014 12: 27
            +1
            Quote: Gluxar_
            So what is the conversation about. The article is vysel and does not carry anything.

            The same opinion about your posts
      2. T-73
        T-73 17 January 2014 20: 30
        +3
        Quote: Gluxar_
        Why put upside down.

        Indeed, why are you putting everything upside down?
        Quote: Gluxar_
        what is your problem

        Quote: Gluxar_
        Tariffs have always increased, if it were not for this phrase "social norm", there would be no noise.

        Are you used to "no dust and noise"? And here in the top ten:
        Quote: Gluxar_
        Just have provocateurs

        Or is pahom54 really being provoked? Or do you consider him a provocateur? AND
        Quote: Gluxar_
        just think about what you need to effectively use what we have
        Of course it is necessary for the people. After all, this people gave away for pennies what was acquired by generations, this people forbade themselves to use incandescent bulbs above 100 watts, this people set tariffs for everything for themselves, this people cuts a shelf from an old one with a jigsaw (electric! Svol.chi ..) cupboard to the kitchen. Really like pigs. No need to go to Ikea - they are everywhere - just spend, do not skimp! Already said that pahom54 bourgeois. In your opinion it is. And not a shadow of embarrassment. Or conscience.
        But I would say "yes" to ANY "every sensible idea", if the urges promoting it themselves would sit on them. But iPhones are not yet charged from space ... Therefore, the "ration" does not shine for the chosen ones. And do not be like your mythical provocateurs, who are certainly not liberal, and therefore dangerous. Good luck to embody
        Quote: Gluxar_
        every sound idea

        that
        Quote: Gluxar_
        trying to defile and distort its meaning
      3. Jin
        Jin 18 January 2014 00: 29
        +4
        Quote: Gluxar_
        You can calculate how much each washing or heating of an electric kettle costs,


        Well, if in your opinion, you can still calculate how much water will take to wash the plate for the second, and how much for the first, how many spoons for dessert, dining and tea ... Question: "Who needs it ???" One thing is absolutely clear that in the presence of transparent schemes of any payments, there remains a minimum of questions and it does not even come to mind that there is no thought. Well, and when, the bureaucratic offspring begins to muddy the water, in which it is easier to catch fish, it is here that the common people and the question arises: "Does the goat have a button accordion?" At the genetic level, they have already been grafted!
        Do you understand what I mean? Not on that save our rulers gathered and not at the expense of those people!
        I don’t remember in recent years, not a single innovation or laws, from which it would become really easier to live and which would be observed! The same applies to all kinds of reforms and "social programs" like them tariffs ... gasoline, gas, electricity, rent, education, medicine. And the notorious Armed Forces with the Ministry of Internal Affairs, and of the Russian Academy of Sciences already ... This CASCO-OSAGO insurance is finally where you get tired of swallowing dust and saliva out of anger and frustration for such "generous" payments! Everywhere nae (gi) is spoiled !!! And here, look, everything will be honest, without deception, like that wizard ?! Why would you be an altruist, right?
  28. SRC P-15
    SRC P-15 17 January 2014 09: 46
    +1
    Don’t worry, everything will be fine! As soon as energy soldering is introduced in Moscow, the wetlands will raise such a storm, and not only the wetlands, there will be little power. These are obedient and patient people in the province, but in Moscow just give a reason, the answer will be right there. And it will no longer be white-bellies, but a simple, for the most part, people. So, I think, everything will be settled. Putin will not allow these standards to be introduced.
    1. Vladimir 23rus
      Vladimir 23rus 24 January 2014 00: 12
      0
      They will introduce such norms hi that they won’t go anywhere.
  29. The comment was deleted.
  30. report4
    report4 17 January 2014 09: 53
    19 th
    Hmmm .. article then article, but where is the solution to the problem from the "author"? You don't need to shit a lot of reason, but to offer something sensible is already brain work. Well, I would also like to ask the author who would implement his "plan".
    About an electric boiler it’s, in general, wild borsch. Even at peak times, let us illuminate the territories with industrial floodlights, install electric heating for lawns and use an electric cannon to clean the snow from the paths to the house. Let the wiring in the house smoke, and let all neighbors cut light every five minutes.
    In principle, the idea of ​​reducing electricity consumption is a good one, but you need to look at the implementation.
    1. Field
      Field 17 January 2014 10: 12
      14
      Quote: report4
      Hmmm .. article then article, but where is the solution to the problem from the "author"? You don't need to shit a lot of reason, but to offer something sensible is already brain work. Well, I would also like to ask the author who would implement his "plan".


      Well, let's offer, for example, sense? Who will take this for consideration?

      Reduce consumption in the face of growing number of electrical appliances? Where do you live? not with Agafya Lykova?
      1. Starover_Z
        Starover_Z 17 January 2014 13: 54
        +2
        Or maybe a "comrade" from Rublyovka ?!
      2. Gluxar_
        Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 18: 38
        -3
        Quote: Field
        Well, let's offer, for example, sense? Who will take this for consideration?

        Reduce consumption in the face of growing number of electrical appliances? Where do you live? not with Agafya Lykova?

        And for more imagination or education is not enough? For example, you can change the lamp to energy-saving and save 6 times more energy. You can buy a refrigerator category A, and much more. Turn on the imagination.
        Or, as always, you need everything for free?
        1. Field
          Field 17 January 2014 22: 15
          +4
          Not for you to judge my education and imagination.
          You are so smart (even hunting is left), and the rest are fools.
          To power engineers about light bulbs and tell 6 more times. How much launcher spends energy to ignite it? Saving will be with prolonged burning of this lamp (provided that it does not burn out, which often happens).
          You can also category A washing machine and microwave and dishwasher, induction oven, etc.
          Plus, charging mobile phones, computers, laptops, electric razors, heating circulation system, water supply, other electrical appliances and you suggest saving on bulbs? Can a splinter go to chop?
          Or light a lamp?
          By the way, I figured out "to put a windmill" is not the most - a couple of millions without delivery and installation, and you are light bulbs.
          And this has nothing to do with a freebie
          It's about another thing: that under the guise of saving electricity (a good deed in fact), people are trying to fuck an even bigger gesheft.
    2. T-73
      T-73 17 January 2014 10: 22
      15
      Yes, this is an article. And this is the job of a journalist - to tell, to identify the problem, since it exists, and not to solve it. Otherwise, why the heck do we need a horde of "specially trained people" in their places? Or others should have for them
      Quote: report4
      brain work
      ? And the idea of ​​reducing energy consumption is not a good one. The idea of ​​saving is yes. We are told: develop production, give birth to children, take a mortgage and live better. In the dark, silence and with a bicycle generator? Oh well...
      1. Mart
        17 January 2014 10: 44
        10
        Quote: T-73
        Yes, this is an article. And this is the job of a journalist - to tell, to identify the problem, since it exists, and not to solve it. Otherwise, why the heck do we need a horde of "specially trained people" in their places?


        Right. Thank.

        "By demanding a conscious attitude to work from the artist, you are right, but you are confusing two concepts: the solution of the question and the correct formulation of the question. Only the latter is obligatory for the artist." Chekhov.
      2. godun
        godun 17 January 2014 13: 39
        +3
        I agree with you, and in any case, all these movements are made solely for the purpose of squeezing the dough from 85% of the population known to everyone.
      3. Gluxar_
        Gluxar_ 17 January 2014 20: 31
        -3
        Quote: T-73
        And the idea of ​​reducing energy consumption is not a good one. The idea of ​​saving is yes. We are told: develop production, give birth to children, take a mortgage and live better. In the dark, silence and with a bicycle generator? Oh well...

        Just if there is a large family of social norms, too, will grow, for each person. At least one person, at least seven use the refrigerator. Do you at least read the law for a change.
        1. T-73
          T-73 17 January 2014 21: 11
          +1
          To use a TV (hardly any one), a computer (also) (a washing machine, microwave oven, light, etc.), at least one, at least seven - is there no difference? One refrigerator, by the way, is hard for seven to manage. Here we were talking, by the way, about more energy-consuming electrical equipment. And what to read for a change, I will decide without your advice
    3. 311ove
      311ove 17 January 2014 11: 59
      +6
      Quote: report4
      In principle, the idea of ​​reducing electricity consumption is a good one, but you need to look at the implementation.

      And why did you suddenly decide that the idea is to reduce power consumption ???! "I'm surprised at you .." The idea here is how to rip off more! And as they say, you don't have to shaggy your grandmother! And these social. norms - the principle of the director of the shelter - "blue thief" from "12 chairs" .... Read the "classics" gentlemen, everything is described there !!!
    4. vjatsergey
      vjatsergey 17 January 2014 12: 47
      +3
      with a price of 4p12 kopecks per kW and so everyone is already saving, this price is in our village Palatka, Magadan Region.
    5. yehat
      yehat 17 January 2014 13: 48
      +1
      yes offers - the sea, if only everything was honestly implemented
      Start at least with normal thermal insulation of houses, pipes, windows.
      Replace wiring, start advertising and sale of really electro-efficient equipment,
      change the audit rules of the housing contractor to become more transparent.
      Etc. But everything rests on the fact that it’s very, very hard to do it from the bottom up,
      and from top to bottom, nobody just does it.
    6. ed65b
      ed65b 17 January 2014 17: 58
      +1
      Quote: report4
      About an electric boiler it’s, in general, wild borsch.

      In Irkutsk, for example, 90 percent on electric boilers. What is the game ????
  31. greenk19
    greenk19 17 January 2014 10: 06
    +8
    Our deputies got it. All their affairs are aimed at stripping just the people. Ordinary people suffer from their reforms, laws. But the oligarchs only increase their welfare. When they tighten something, reform, increase some fines, they say that this is normal in Europe. It would be normal for all these creatures with their broods to be sent ten years to a village in the Far East and just let them live, work like all the locals there. Maybe it will reach them that their comparisons are, to say the least, incorrect with Europe. Otherwise, they will not reach ...
  32. nokki
    nokki 17 January 2014 10: 06
    +2
    Quote: Tersky
    Quote: Mart
    Here it is, this very source:

    Good health, Oleg! Alas, I live in the steppe zone, and we don’t have such a source either, laughing !


    And dumplings?)))
  33. Kovrovsky
    Kovrovsky 17 January 2014 10: 10
    +3
    Quote: Nayhas
    Quote: askort154
    Just once to see - "the pilot project will be implemented on Rublevka".

    Are there any electric meters there?

    Yes, but twist in the opposite direction! wassat
  34. jjj
    jjj 17 January 2014 10: 16
    10 th
    Reread the documents again. Excess payments are made at tariffs that are already in effect. And "social norm" is at a discount. The rates are different in different regions. Where growth was previously artificially restrained for political reasons, a real jump should be expected and there regional authorities will try to muddy the water
    1. Mart
      17 January 2014 10: 42
      +6
      Quote: jjj
      Excessive payments are made at rates that are already valid.


      The tariffs of power supply companies are being raised, and in advance, twice a year. What kind of "discounts" can we talk about in such conditions? Ordinary capitalist profit, and nothing else. The capitalist will throw in 100% and then dump 1% - and push the talk almost about a Christmas sale.

      When these "social norms" are introduced in July (if they do, the issue will be resolved, probably in March), I will count everything again ...
      1. jjj
        jjj 17 January 2014 23: 24
        0
        Tariff revision is only legislatively fixed once a year since July 1 for two years now. Everything else is amateur performance. She is jurisdictional
    2. valerei
      valerei 17 January 2014 12: 29
      +5
      jjj, didn’t read the docs, maybe it’s written like that. However, how many times we have been ripped off, they still rip off us. It is written today as it is in today's document, and then, on the sly, everything will be the other way around. Example: when they began to introduce hourly payments for telephone calls, the initial tariff was 6 kopecks / min. A year later, the tariff was raised to 11 kopecks / min. "Deputies" were immediately found who began to raise the people to rallies on the occasion of the "robbery". Governor !!! personally !!! canceled 11 kopecks. 5-6 years have passed, so what? Now one minute costs 66kop. That's all that can be said about this.
  35. tank64rus
    tank64rus 17 January 2014 10: 24
    +6
    Let's put the State Duma on rations, according to the standards of the pre-trial detention center,
  36. Kibalchish
    Kibalchish 17 January 2014 10: 26
    +7
    Bastards !!! To the forks of freaks!
  37. Mhpv
    Mhpv 17 January 2014 10: 34
    +8
    But does our people give a lot of milk? You won’t milk in a day, your hand will get tired!
  38. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 17 January 2014 10: 35
    -1
    Read carefully: social norms will be regulated and dated by the state, that is, the tariff within their framework will be set by the state, and everything from above is released into the "free float", at the discretion of service providers, that is, it will be limited only by their greed and wishes ... Moreover, these "Wishlist" will also be initially "regulated" - within three years, the increase in "extra" tariffs from "social" should not exceed: the first year-15-25%, the second year-25-35%, the third year-35- 50%, depending on inflation, etc., and then at the discretion of suppliers.
  39. stalkerwalker
    stalkerwalker 17 January 2014 10: 41
    +9
    The main problem of this issue is inefficiency of the structures themselves, from RAO UES to local energy sales.
    I explain with the example of Norway, where the cost of 1 kW / h varies from 10 to 40 ø (1 ø - 6 kopecks, 1 Norwegian krone - 6 rubles). Such a solid spread is explained by geography (in the north - more expensive) and the possibility of choosing a supplier. There are NO heating pipelines and gas pipelines in Norway - electricity is used everywhere. If you add in one-time annual payments for the use of networks for the transmission of electric energy, for connecting to a consumer’s house, then the average cost goes at the level 1,5 - 2,5 rubles per 1 kWh without any social norms. The only minus is that only a qualified electrician can make every alteration of the wiring in the house / apartment for a fee (of course, rather big). Therefore, extension cords are so popular in Norway.
    Output.
    The housing and communal services system, as well as the system of local energy sales, are the most criminal civil structures that form the cost of services locally "from the lantern", not caring at all about cutting costs, hoping that the consumer will pay for EVERYTHING. That is why the so-called reform of housing and communal services will never be carried out.
  40. Stinger
    Stinger 17 January 2014 10: 49
    +2
    Polygons for testing new consumption standards should be arranged in the open spaces of the authors of the project, starting with the State Duma.
    1. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z 17 January 2014 19: 50
      0
      At their "work" let them also pay for their coverage - salaries allow!
      And as for the mansions, Chubais himself ordered laughing
  41. Armavir
    Armavir 17 January 2014 10: 50
    16
    Good day to all!
    I, as an energy engineer, want to say that we can’t even talk about any savings, so judge for yourself, who benefits from this? to generating companies? —no, of course, all network companies (FSK, IDGCs) are not there either, it’s their profit and they are all interested in increasing consumption, but they are given a hand and are not completely allowed to increase the cost, so they thought up that way you can’t raise it to make you go beyond what is permitted.
    In general, nay ... how they want and continue to tell tales from all sides that we do not live economically, but we all live sooooo economically and how ..
  42. Kibalchish
    Kibalchish 17 January 2014 10: 51
    12
    I don’t understand a damn thing, do we have socialism or capitalism? If socialism with its social norms, then where are the socialist buns? And if capitalism, then there is no social norm at all.
  43. kontrol
    kontrol 17 January 2014 11: 02
    +7
    I know how to reduce any tariffs by 50%; I need to reduce the salary of top managers by 32 times; make it in rubles and that's it
  44. zyxerjdbx
    zyxerjdbx 17 January 2014 11: 08
    +1
    Yes, my cat knows how to turn off the light in the toilet ....
  45. Taoist
    Taoist 17 January 2014 11: 15
    +3
    Yeah ... here they wrote everything about winter and heating. But in our area in the summer the same air conditioner is not a luxury but a means of survival. And you will definitely fit into the "ration" - even if you don't include everything else ...
    For a long time now I've been sucking on the idea of ​​installing an "autonomous system" - but with such our approaches, they will soon be forced to pay for both sun and wind ...
  46. calocha
    calocha 17 January 2014 11: 25
    +6
    It is necessary to decide whether we are a SOCIAL State or not?! If yes, then the State should DIE the greed of the NE-capitalists in the country !!! Indicate the price corridor. Otherwise, it will end in riot or civil war, with such a policy as it is now possible ... much.
  47. dmb
    dmb 17 January 2014 11: 32
    +2
    "How can you" throw mud at the country "- from a statement on the next branch. The author is also present here.
  48. zzz
    zzz 17 January 2014 11: 39
    +1
    Quote: valerei
    How accurate is the question: "Is there life beyond the Moscow Ring Road?"


    Of course, there is Rublevka.))))))
    1. svoboda1970
      svoboda1970 17 January 2014 12: 23
      +2
      For MKAD there is no land for THEM! angry
  49. SPACE
    SPACE 17 January 2014 12: 06
    -3
    The author then had to give schedules of electricity consumption in the RSFSR and Russia and roughly divide each person ...
    Strange, here they lament over the collapse of production in Russia, the deterioration of the standard of living of people, etc., all are advised to change the government, begin nationalization and industrialization. At the same time, for some reason everyone began to resent the restrictions on electricity consumption, to see from a very bad life, well, not otherwise at night on the Internet, you won’t have to sit ... Besides, you need to do electricity to industrialize, and if there are no plants in Russia at all , all types have collapsed, why do they need electricity then and why then limit people. Unclear... what laughing
    1. Starina_hank
      Starina_hank 17 January 2014 21: 34
      +1
      You can sell the resulting surplus over the hill, for example, the Chinese!
  50. kaktus
    kaktus 17 January 2014 12: 07
    +3
    When industry collapsed in the 90s and, accordingly, energy consumption, sucks became everything. The economy didn’t really recover to the level of 1990. On agriculture and again consumption is not better am From state employees - a little sense. With whom to take at higher tariffs, whom to turn off the power bourgeois ??? Sadness ... The fitters and electricians are being reduced, and there are more and more managers, they need good salaries. Sadness ... Thought, thought, and now come up fool
    1. 787nkx
      787nkx 17 January 2014 17: 54
      0
      They came up with back in 2003 how to reform the energy sector.
      They should have finished in 2014, but they are stalling with the deadlines.