Military Review

Project of strategic bomber DSB-LK

75
The fifties of the last century are deservedly considered a period of rapid development aviation. The advent of jet engines, new materials and new technologies has allowed aircraft designers to tackle the most daring projects. So brave that some of them are still amazing. A large number of projects of that time were not embodied in metal, but served as an excellent source of new ideas and a way to test their prospects. One of these projects was the DSB-LK, developed by employees of the Leningrad Red Banner Air Force Engineering Academy. A.F. Mozhaysky (LKVVIA) in the late fifties.


Project of strategic bomber DSB-LK


In the second half of the fifties, the leading aircraft building organizations of the Soviet Union commissioned by the General Staff of the Air Force conducted work on the theme "Finding ways to develop supersonic long-range hydroplanes." Among others, LKVVIA engineers under the direction of A.S. Moskalev and A.I. Smirnov. They conducted a pre-sketch development of several variants of a supersonic aircraft in the configuration of a strategic bomber, an amphibious aircraft and a hydroplane. Three preliminary projects differed from each other in different details of the appearance, but they were united by high cruising speed of flight. The purpose of the research was to determine the best configuration of a promising supersonic aircraft.

At the beginning of work on the three projects, the requirements for new aircraft were rather vague. It was assumed that by creating a pre-draft design that fits within the established broad framework, it will be possible to determine the requirements for aircraft that will fly in the future. Therefore, the bomber, seaplane and amphibious take-off mass could be in the range from 150 to 500 tons, the flight speed was set at M = 2-4, and the flight height at the target level was at least 20 km. With such characteristics, the developed aircraft had to carry 5-15 tons of combat load.


Search layout schemes of a heavy bomber, the development of LKVVIA them. A. F. Mozhaisky


Employees LKVVIA considered a large number of options for the layout of promising aircraft. Prospects for the usual layout, “flying wing”, tailless and “duck” were tested. Aircraft could get swept, triangular, rectangular, trapezoidal or sickle-shaped wing. Turbojet engines with and without an afterburner were considered as a power plant, as well as a combined version with turbojet and direct-flow engines.

Developed projects in the future could become the basis for aircraft for various purposes. The demands made allowed both a strategic bomber and a high-speed long-range transport aircraft to be made. It was assumed that the bomber will carry aircraft ballistic projectiles (aeroballistic missiles) or cruise missiles. The combat capabilities of the aircraft were considered on the basis of the specified parameters of weapons. So, when launching from a height of 20-30 km, the ballistic projectile had to fly 2500 kilometers, the cruise missile to the line of sight.

Especially for the "land" version of the aircraft were introduced some restrictions on the mass and take-off and landing characteristics. Given the capabilities of the existing airfields, the take-off mass of the promising bomber was limited to 300 tons. The plane had to break away from the lane at speeds up to 350 km / h, and the landing needed to bring to 250 km / h. Run and mileage are limited to 1600 meters. The seaplane and amphibian did not have such restrictions, since they could use large bodies of water as a runway.

As a result of comparing several variants of a promising supersonic aircraft, the best one was chosen. The winner of this competition was a long-range aircraft, made according to the “flying wing” scheme with six turbojet engines. This appearance allowed to achieve the highest possible flight performance without loss in combat qualities. After determining the best option, the next stage of the program for studying promising supersonic aircraft began. To work except LKVVIA them. Mozhaisky were involved TsAGI, VVIA them. NOT. Zhukovsky and OKB-23, headed by V.M. Myasishchev.



The aircraft, designated DSB-LK (Long-range strategic bomber - “flying wing”), was designed in the shock version, although the possibility of creating an intelligence modification was not ruled out. The project was considered as a continuation of the previous works, because of which the construction and testing of the aircraft were not planned. According to some reports, during the development of the project, the appearance of the DSB-LC bomber was slightly modified. It took into account the best practices in other projects developed earlier.

The layout of the "flying wing" allowed to correctly assemble the internal volumes of the aircraft. With the length of the 49-52 meter and the wingspan of the 36-38 meters, the take-off weight of the DSB-LC was supposed to be increased to 250-280 tons. The dry weight of the aircraft, according to calculations, was equal to 88,5 tons.

The plane DSB-LC did not have a pronounced fuselage. This part of the design slightly protruded from the wing in the nose, but then smoothly passed into it. On the sides of the nose fairing, the center section began, gradually expanding towards the middle part of the aircraft. Approximately in the middle of the length of the vehicle, engine nacelles were located on the center section, the lower part of which protruded slightly from the wing. On the sides of the engine nacelle to the central part of the wing were mounted trapezoid in terms of the console. The center section sweep was equal to 72 °, consoles - 42 °. Over the engine nacelles supposed to place two keels.



As a power plant in the project DSB-LK, six turbojet VK-15М engines with nominal thrust of 10000 kgf and afterburner 15800 were considered. With the help of six engines placed in two nacelles, a promising bomber could reach speeds of up to M = 2,8. Estimated practical ceiling reached 35 km. Maximum flight range at full refueling exceeded 16,5 thousand. Km.

Applied layout "flying wing" could provide good take-off and landing characteristics. The length of the bomber’s run should have been a little more than 1100 meters, the range was 1050 m. The plane should be off the ground at speed 330-335 km / h, landing speed did not exceed 180-190 km / h.

In the central part of the fuselage, between the engine nacelles, was cargo compartment. Its size allowed to transport weapons weighing up to 15 tons. As the main weapons prospective cruise missiles and aircraft ballistic shells were considered. In addition, if necessary, the DSB-LK bomber could use bombs of caliber up to 5000 kg.



For self-defense, the aircraft could carry two (on the upper and lower surfaces of the wing) turrets with automatic guns. The use of guns with a shooting rate of up to 7-9 thousand shots per minute was considered optimal. The estimated ammunition of each of the guns consisted of 700-1200 shells. Additional weapons for self-defense aircraft could be air-to-air missiles with a range of up to 10 kilometers.

Depending on the composition of the complex of electronic equipment, the crew of the DSB-LK bomber could consist of two, three or four people. In the version of the reconnaissance aircraft crew size could change.



In 1960, the Leningrad Red Banner Air Force Engineering Academy. A.F. Mozhaisky and related organizations have completed a preliminary design of a promising bomber DSB-LC. This project was initially considered as a trial and was of a research nature. For this reason, in the same year, the project was discontinued, and the documentation was transferred to several aircraft manufacturers. The experience gained during the development of a pilot project was useful in creating many new aircraft.







On the materials of the sites:
http://testpilot.ru/
http://alternathistory.org.ua/
http://crimso.msk.ru/
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  1. svp67
    svp67 16 January 2014 08: 47
    +34
    Yes, if something similar appeared in our country at that time ... American "blackbirds" would "nervously smoke on the sidelines", as apparently the "spirits" ...
    1. sledgehammer102
      sledgehammer102 16 January 2014 10: 00
      +4
      Quote: svp67
      Yes, if something similar appeared in our country at that time ... American "blackbirds" would "nervously smoke on the sidelines", as apparently the "spirits" ...


      Yeah. Pictures are impressive. I am confused that the project was given to Tupolev .... There are big doubts that they are in principle able to pull it
      1. svp67
        svp67 16 January 2014 13: 56
        +6
        Quote: sledgehammer102
        I am confused that the project was given to Tupolev .... There are big doubts that they are, in principle, able to pull it
        Do you mean this or that time? Then - such a project is clearly only Myasishchev would have "pulled", but today ..... there is simply no choice sad
        1. yehat
          yehat 16 January 2014 15: 28
          +5
          Tupolev lobbied conservative aircraft in the interests of the industrial lobby of the military-industrial complex of those years, so that something less needed to be changed. Projects of dry weaving, submarines of titanium at one time caused a very serious confrontation, because the industry was not ready for such technology. Even the B-29 aircraft made a copy of the Tu-4, it seems, by the direct order of Stalin.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Evgeniy-111
          Evgeniy-111 19 January 2014 15: 17
          +1
          There was also IL-52 (here they wrote about it).
          Very original car.
      2. silver_roman
        silver_roman 16 January 2014 19: 04
        +2
        they probably want one shot of two birds with one stone: to restore KB, and to get PAK YES. God grant that the hares succumb to such a risky project!
      3. Imigrantt
        Imigrantt 17 January 2014 00: 51
        +3
        Why invent a bike! This airplane is made of modern materials, with modern engines, modern avionics and the latest weapons using new technologies !!! Yes, Americans will sniff into two holes and learn to read Murzilka! I'm certainly not an aircraft designer but a technical education. I think that the characteristics that are given are 50-60 years. And now is 2014! It needs to be modernized! And I think the cost will be much less !!! hi
    2. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 17 January 2014 00: 09
      +3
      Quote: svp67
      Yes, if something similar appeared in our country at that time ... American "blackbirds" would "nervously smoke on the sidelines", as apparently the "spirits" ...


      So they already smoke. SR-71 has no weapons in principle, a maximum of one barrel - the pilot to shoot himself, Colt.
      1. Kir
        Kir 17 January 2014 02: 33
        +1
        Well, you have to give the Yanks their due attempts to create another miracle nevertheless were made, and as I recall this was just before the thrush, this interceptor was called YF-12A.
    3. mr.fafes
      mr.fafes April 17 2017 23: 45
      0
      We have been, and still are, and much better, the MiG-25 and MiG-31.
      American blackbirds, after the appearance of the MiG-25 and MiG-31, went to the eternal parking lot.
  2. Stiletto
    Stiletto 16 January 2014 09: 18
    +8
    It may also appear. After all, everything new is well forgotten old ...
  3. AK-47
    AK-47 16 January 2014 09: 22
    +4
    You can't say anything handsome, it's a pity that: "the project was initially considered a trial and had a research character".
  4. JonnyT
    JonnyT 16 January 2014 09: 28
    +7
    and these are the 50 years of the last century! This is what was developed in the aircraft industry!
    I wonder why this project was not implemented ..... seemingly a very decent device
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 16 January 2014 09: 44
      +21
      Quote: JonnyT
      I wonder why this project was not implemented.


      The project was just ahead of its time. Like this Moskvich 2144 Istra. Circa 1984
      Automatic transmission, diesel with a consumption of 2.2-3.5 l / 100 km. Weight 700 kg. Projection of information on a windshield. Single side door opening upstairs.
      1. family tree
        family tree 16 January 2014 11: 19
        +9
        Because a certain Khrushchev N.S., being the Secretary General of the CPSU, decided that the Air Force and Navy could be greatly curtailed, and the heap, if anything, with rockets with nuclear heads, could be gouged. hi
        1. JonnyT
          JonnyT 16 January 2014 12: 30
          +10
          it is unfortunate that Comrade Stalin did not leave behind a worthy successor - the successor of the ideas of scientific and secular development. After all, under him, domestic industry and science reached such high rates of development that if we could sustain this pace, the near space would have already been mastered
          1. Vadivak
            Vadivak 16 January 2014 14: 26
            +5
            Quote: JonnyT
            it is unfortunate that Comrade Stalin did not leave a worthy successor



            I chose, Panteleymon Kondratievich Ponomarenko, the first secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Belarus, even the document on his appointment as chairman of the Council of Ministers of the USSR was endorsed in February 1952 by many members of the Presidium of the Central Committee (Molotov, Mehlis, Bagirov, Shepilov. - A.Ch.), but death Stalin prevented the fulfillment of his will. And then it began .... Khrushchev and Malenkov were pushed as much as ambassador to the Netherlands. But a very worthy man, a partisan, always directly expressed his point of view, cited many arguments in favor of his views, and did not avoid discussions.
      2. wanderer_032
        wanderer_032 16 January 2014 14: 33
        -2
        How did you decide that Istra is an AZLK project?
        As far as I remember, this is a VAZ project and the entire "tenth" VAZ family, this is its serial embodiment.
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 16 January 2014 14: 38
          +8
          Quote: wanderer_032
          How did you decide that Istra is an AZLK project?


          AZLK in the Office of Design and Experimental Work, a group of promising developments was created under the guidance of design engineer A.V. Kulikova. The group worked on a promising model for the new Moskvich-2144 Istra car. The design of the new car was developed by HKB design engineer S. Ivakin.
          1. wanderer_032
            wanderer_032 24 January 2014 12: 55
            0
            Sorry. I just as a child read about it in the UT magazine and for some reason I remembered that it was a VAZ development.
            repeat
      3. Maxsh
        Maxsh 16 January 2014 14: 52
        0
        This project looks a lot like a VAZ 10
      4. silver_roman
        silver_roman 16 January 2014 19: 10
        +1
        stunned. and this layout really could all this or was planned, what can? projection onto glass, etc.!
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 16 January 2014 19: 56
          +4
          Quote: silver_roman
          stunned. and this layout really could all this or was planned, what can? projection onto glass, etc.!


          I still found the novel in the AZLK museum, so I immediately wrote about him, I really didn’t see how and what works for him, but the application was serious, everything seems to be complete without a warrior.

          The diesel was simple in design and could run on diesel fuel, kerosene and vegetable oil. If it had not been for the restructuring, such motors would have been mass-produced in Kurgan (after conversion at Kurganmashzavod, where the latest BMP-3 was being produced at that time). And they were installed on the usual 41st Muscovites. For this, almost everything was ready, except for the last financial injection, without which the Germans who promised to help with the diesel turned off cooperation.

          And before that, and then a project with an engine and completely stalled by the oil-rich is not profitable, on the contrary, it is necessary that more fuel is consumed.
          1. silver_roman
            silver_roman 16 January 2014 20: 02
            +2
            Based on its performance characteristics, it is still largely relevant. I think they will remember it again when we examine more bearing problems. For now, the new Prior is nothing like that)))
            1. Kir
              Kir 16 January 2014 20: 13
              +3
              And someone remembers such a Miracle as am Pangolin, he was even shot in science fiction films, but he was made by a private trader in general. Nevertheless, our country is still interesting. The people are talented and quick-witted, but for the most part, it’s a misfortune with the authorities, and more often the lower and middle managers work as a brake. An example with ZAZ is noteworthy, the prototype of Tavria was still shown to L. Brezhnev and gave the go-ahead, and already with it we could set up serial production, and in which year we saw it on the roads of the USSR, but at least let it out, and how much we poher ..... ...
              1. Tishka
                Tishka April 13 2015 15: 12
                +1
                Pangolin is unique, it was recently shown on TV! The new owner, replaced the engine with a more powerful one, the body remained original. By the way, at that time, these guys were invited to the VAZ, but one 2 years he designed a nut for the shaft, the second, he left in a month! VAZ, their ideas are not needed. I remember my grandfather brought a string bag in the net, a rotary engine for 105 horses, assembled in a barn, Vaz, collected a dozen, none worked!
              2. The comment was deleted.
    2. yehat
      yehat 16 January 2014 15: 31
      +1
      materials - new, methods for their preparation and processing ...
      it was this that held back a huge number of projects.
      Why was Mig-25 made of steel? Because nothing like that that stands on the F-22, it was stupid.
      1. Kir
        Kir 16 January 2014 18: 44
        +2
        Forgive me, are you sure that there are all the materials used from the know-how series ?, I personally have doubts as though a decent part was not based on our developments. And by the way, let's really compare the comparable - the aircraft of "competitors" of comparable years of development and adoption, or progress in a separate "aviation kingdom-state".
        And with regards to the prototype, it now looks very modern, both externally and in terms of its main characteristics, and this is perhaps the main thing, as it says, I'm sorry about some global stagnation of ideas!
    3. The comment was deleted.
  5. LaGlobal
    LaGlobal 16 January 2014 09: 39
    +2
    Judging by the projects - this is a real flying monster! He would terrify our enemies! And this is at the end of 50's !!!!!!
  6. Hort
    Hort 16 January 2014 09: 40
    +1
    in those years there were many amazing and beautiful projects. It is even strange that after them new aircraft continue to do according to the "classical"
  7. Ruslan
    Ruslan 16 January 2014 09: 41
    +1
    damn what a handsome man! beautiful bird!
  8. NOMADE
    NOMADE 16 January 2014 09: 50
    +2
    Handsome, impresses. Now I would reanimate it and modify it under new engines, avionek and materials.
    Oh, dreams, dreams ..
    The cost would probably surpass ..
  9. Blot
    Blot 16 January 2014 10: 58
    +2
    Damn, handsome !!! My breathing stopped, my knees trembled !!! Handsome man! If only they did !!!
  10. DAGESTAN333
    DAGESTAN333 16 January 2014 11: 00
    +9
    Damn ... how am I dragging myself from Russian aviation thought ... Incredible aesthetics ...
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 16 January 2014 11: 16
      +11
      Quote: DAGESTANETS333
      Damn ... how am I trudging from Russian aviation thought ..

      More precisely - the Soviet period - the highest stage in the development of domestic aviation thought
      1. yehat
        yehat 16 January 2014 15: 35
        0
        what the hell is this ??? I can not identify!
        1. Kir
          Kir 16 January 2014 18: 50
          +4
          What you deign to call crap is the brainchild of the Genius Bartini- VVA ...., it is easy to find it by request Bartini's ekranoplan, this unit, like much that came out of the pen "of this Russian Italian, was far ahead of its time.



          This is also his Heavy, distant, supersonic. 1955 g
          1. Kir
            Kir 16 January 2014 20: 15
            +1
            Thank you, of course, but I didn’t attach these things, as well as the phrase
            This is also his ..........
            1. Vadivak
              Vadivak 16 January 2014 23: 18
              +3
              Quote: Kir
              Thank you, of course, but I didn’t attach this,


              You are welcome. I just added to the topic so to speak
              1. Kir
                Kir 17 January 2014 02: 14
                +1
                Vadivak Sorry, but how did it happen that at least it looks to me as if I were writing?
          2. dmitrij.blyuz
            dmitrij.blyuz 19 January 2014 01: 19
            +1
            The development of Bartini was ahead of its time. Then there was no opportunity to create such a machine. Flying prototypes are a little different. Bartini is an unrivaled genius in aviation.
            1. Kir
              Kir 19 January 2014 03: 02
              0
              Well, here I think ANT played not the last violin, although Genius himself was from God, but he could well cut others! In general, if I remember correctly, the main obstacle to part of his Creations is the lack of suitable motors.
        2. Proud.
          Proud. 16 January 2014 22: 31
          +2
          "Dragon"
      2. The comment was deleted.
  11. Kipish
    Kipish 16 January 2014 11: 58
    0
    It seems to me here
    "So, when launched from an altitude of 20-30 km, a ballistic projectile was supposed to fly 2500 kilometers, a cruise missile - at a line-of-sight distance."
    an error crept in
  12. Taoist
    Taoist 16 January 2014 12: 36
    +2
    Well, in fact, the LC circuit in those days was worked out (and not only worked out) by many designers. It is worth recalling the work of the same Northop. Unfortunately, none of these developments went into mass production. There are several reasons.
    The first is dynamic instability and centering difficulty. Prior to the advent of stable EDU systems, flying "wings" was a relative pleasure.
    The second is the limitation of the dimensions of the combat and payload compartments, as they are directly related to the thickness of the wing profile, and therefore with its aerodynamic quality. (By the way, this is one of the reasons why NORTOP B-35 did not go into the series - the nuclear weapons of that time simply did not fit into its bomb bombs). The same problem complicated the placement of the power plant - the use of nacelles spoiled the wing and nullified the aerodynamic superiority of the circuit.

    Another question is when it became necessary to use Stealth technology. - here LC with its minimal ESR turned out to be out of competition. So it is possible that they will partly return to this project during the development of PAK YES. Anyway, I hope so.
    1. pensioner
      pensioner 16 January 2014 14: 20
      +1
      Alexei- hi
      Quote: Taoist
      It is worth recalling the work of the same Northop.

      And can Zimmermann's "pancakes" be considered made according to the LK scheme ?:
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 16 January 2014 14: 33
        +4
        Quote: retired
        And can Zimmermann's "pancakes" be considered made according to the LK scheme ?:


        Definitely not. This is not the LK but the LB - a new aerodynamic shape "flying Pancake". smile
        1. pensioner
          pensioner 16 January 2014 15: 02
          +1
          Quote: Vadivak
          Definitely not. This is not the LK but the LB - a new aerodynamic shape "flying Pancake".

          Thank! And then I just could not understand: what is it?
          1. yehat
            yehat 16 January 2014 15: 32
            +1
            This is an Amersky promising interceptor, created at the end of the war.
          2. The comment was deleted.
  13. orsker
    orsker 16 January 2014 12: 45
    +3
    I'd like to hope that PAK-DA will look just like that. Of course with modern engines and avionics.
  14. puskarinkis
    puskarinkis 16 January 2014 12: 55
    +1
    A very interesting idea! The moment smiled: "The use of guns with a rate of fire of up to 7-9 thousand rounds per minute was considered optimal. The estimated ammunition load of each of the guns consisted of 700-1200 shells ..." I wonder who to fight off for so long?
    1. Taoist
      Taoist 16 January 2014 17: 54
      +2
      That's right, given the projected speed and possible angular velocities of the attacking interceptors, the only way to ensure a sufficient probability of hitting a target is to increase the rate of fire. The nominal rate of fire of modern aircraft cannons is 6-8 thousand rounds per minute. Well, and the ammunition ... It is clear that with such a rate of fire, no one planned to create "fire curtains" and continuous shooting. A volley of 0.1-0,2 seconds ... especially since targeting and decision-making at the time of opening fire is provided only by automatic equipment.
  15. kind
    kind 16 January 2014 13: 29
    +1
    Very interesting project!
  16. pensioner
    pensioner 16 January 2014 13: 32
    +5
    It looks fantastic, of course! Maybe his time will come ...
    A little off topic ... as I saw LC - so I immediately remembered one aircraft-DBLK, which we created on the eve of the war. Designer Belyaev (sort of ...) HE also looked very unusual! And, they say, he flew very well! They abandoned it because of its very exotic appearance. Yes, and the only instance was broken when landing ...
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 16 January 2014 14: 45
      +7
      Quote: retired
      I immediately remembered one aircraft-DBLK, which on the eve of the war we created

      And I'm K-7 with an inhabited wing. Although there was even a tail, there was an impressive wing.
      1. pensioner
        pensioner 16 January 2014 15: 07
        +3
        Yeah ... Nothing like that was ever built in the world. It’s a pity that it crashed ... Then they remembered Kalinin ...
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Taoist
      Taoist 16 January 2014 17: 56
      +2
      Not only because of the exotic appearance ... The main disadvantage of the DB-LK was the unavoidable poor view down-forward-to-side with the chosen scheme ... We could not talk about the accuracy of bombing under such conditions.
      1. pensioner
        pensioner 16 January 2014 20: 16
        +1
        Alexei! There were planned 2 people in gondolas! Type: everyone, to the best of their abilities, watched the air situation ...
      2. pensioner
        pensioner 16 January 2014 20: 18
        +1
        Quote: Taoist
        Not only because of the exotic appearance ...
        Thanks Alexey for answering! hi
  17. brainkiller
    brainkiller 16 January 2014 14: 01
    +4
    yes ... here there used to be graduation theses =))))
  18. Akuzenka
    Akuzenka 16 January 2014 15: 08
    +2
    Do you think there are no bold projects now? And there is. They are just secret now. But these are no longer there.
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 16 January 2014 17: 25
      +3
      Quote: AKuzenka
      Do you think there are no bold projects now? T


      I think there is. 2014 Olympics. 2018 World Cup.
      1. yehat
        yehat 16 January 2014 17: 32
        +4
        Instead of changing the Zenit Stadium construction project, one could put the PAK FA link for Peter’s defense.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  19. Alex
    Alex 16 January 2014 15: 51
    +1
    Quote: retired
    They refused him because of his very exotic look

    There were claims for poor visibility forward and down, demanded the addition of a cockpit for the pilot and navigator in the center. It was in the 1940th year. Maybe they just didn’t have time before the war.
    1. pensioner
      pensioner 16 January 2014 20: 30
      +2
      Maybe ... But HOW our engineers thought !! Go crazy ... I (it happened ...) was faced with the generation of rocket launchers (60-70s ...) in the mid-late-early 80-90s ... Holy people ... Romantics. ..Ready to fling themselves to ashes and lay them paths to the graves of their friends ...
  20. Flatter
    Flatter 16 January 2014 16: 08
    +4
    At the time of Khrushchev’s National Assembly, and possibly later, there was a peculiar approach to new projects in senior management — does the USA have this? No, well, that means we don’t. According to the memoirs of test pilot Shelest, he spoke from general designers.
    1. Kir
      Kir 16 January 2014 18: 57
      +1
      Unfortunately, we often had the tops with a strong ossification, but what about the Westerners, and for this reason, there is always a reason to be especially progressive, the Russians always do afterwards. And with regards to Khrushchev, well, he has plenty of frankly very extravagant antics, well, a Trotskyist, although he supposedly "realized", he is a Trotskyist - everything with a twist.
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 16 January 2014 23: 25
        +2
        Quote: Kir
        well, a Trotskyist, although he allegedly "realized" he is a Trotskyist


        + for knowledge of the topic smile This is a historical fact. Khrushchev was a supporter of Trotsky at the time, repented to Stalin that he had contacts with the Trotskyists,

        Memoirs of Valeria Borts, a member of the Young Guard:
        - May 11, 1956 (shortly after the May 9 holiday), five of us who were then alive young guards, as well as A.A. Fadeev, invited N. Khrushchev to his cottage near Moscow. There he started a conversation about ... forgiveness (after the prescription of years) of the betrayer (under torture) of the members of the headquarters of the "Young Guard" Viktor Iosifovich Tretyakevich. It turns out that he was the son of a friend N.S. Khrushchev, a fellow countryman from s. Kalinovka Kursk region. Like, none of us is guaranteed that withstand the torture. The four of us spoke out, from surprise, apparently, somehow vaguely. I said that, of course, I cannot guarantee that I could withstand the torture. But ... we swore an oath that said that if one of us even betrays his comrades under torture, then “let him curse him for the rest of his life”, etc. Khrushchev did not like it. He began to speak hotly incoherently. We were silent. Suddenly, A.A. Fadeev jumps up and angrily throws Khrushchev in the face that he is a former Trotskyist and something else. Khrushchev blushed terribly. Fadeev terribly white.
        1. Kir
          Kir 17 January 2014 02: 21
          +1
          Forgive me, but you don’t know how the work of the son of a khrushchok is interconnected in the field of rocket science, and forgive you only as wrecking and do not call your attitude to artillery and aviation, I generally keep quiet about the attitude to the Fleet, and even the role of G.K. Zhukov in this unseemly history will have to be recalled.
          1. Vadivak
            Vadivak 17 January 2014 20: 10
            +2
            Quote: Kir
            and even the role of G.K.Zhukov in this unseemly history will have to be recalled.


            It’s better not to. On the search report, Marshal 63 minus the ogreb.

            "... Two rooms of the dacha have been turned into a warehouse, where a huge amount of various goods and values ​​is stored. For example: woolen fabrics, silk, brocade, pan-velvet and other materials - over 4000 meters in total; furs - sable, monkey, fox, seals, astrakhan, astrakhan fur - only 323 skins; top quality chevro - 35 skins; expensive carpets and tapestries of large sizes exported from Potsdam and other palaces and houses in Germany - only 44 pieces ... valuable paintings of large classical painting in artistic frames - only 55 pieces, hung in the rooms of the cottage and partially stored in a warehouse; expensive sets, dining and tea utensils (porcelain with artistic decoration, crystal) - 7 large boxes; silver sets of cutlery and tea utensils - 2 boxes; accordions with rich artistic decoration - 8 pieces ; unique hunting rifles from Holland-Holland and others - only 20 pieces ...
            The whole atmosphere, from furniture, carpets, dishes, decorations to curtains on the windows - overseas, mainly German. In the country, there is literally not a single thing of Soviet origin, with the exception of the paths lying at the entrance to the country. There is not a single Soviet book in the country, but in the bookcases there are a large number of books in fine bindings with gold stamping, exclusively in German. Having entered the house, it is hard to imagine that you are near Moscow, and not in Germany ...
            ... 70 valuable gold items (pendants and rings with precious stones, watches, earrings with diamonds, bracelets, brooches, etc.), 740 silverware and silverware items, and moreover, another 30 kilograms of various silver items ... "
            1. Kir
              Kir 17 January 2014 21: 34
              +1
              Please tell me such a name and surname as Georgy Telitsyn, something says? He spoke rather unflattering about Zhukov, and very well about Rokossovsky.
              1. Vadivak
                Vadivak 17 January 2014 23: 47
                +2
                Quote: Kir
                He spoke rather unflattering about Zhukov, and very well about Rokossovsky.


                Stalin called Rokossovsky by the patronymic, only he and Marshal B. M. Shaposhnikov received such treatment
                1. Kir
                  Kir 18 January 2014 02: 04
                  0
                  Unfortunately, my relative (he is my uncle) didn’t have any written memoirs about the Second World War, and I didn’t find him already, although given his position (not by rank but by rank, he’s general’s) he probably could leave a lot of things in the form of a written heritage.
  21. Governor
    Governor 17 January 2014 04: 19
    0
    Yes, in those days this was pretty often, in the sense of very promising and unnecessary projects of brilliant designers. Even too promising ... Remember the ideas of the same Bartini - pure star wars! I, like many others, believe that technology will soon return to these "miracles"; at least they will be looked back on.
  22. Basileus
    Basileus 17 January 2014 10: 24
    0
    Though now use in PAK YES)
  23. Evrepid
    Evrepid 17 January 2014 18: 10
    0
    Variations on the theme of YES:
  24. Evrepid
    Evrepid 17 January 2014 18: 11
    0
    Here is a variation:
  25. Evrepid
    Evrepid 17 January 2014 18: 11
    +1
    And this one:
  26. Evrepid
    Evrepid 17 January 2014 18: 14
    +1
    Here is an option:
    1. Kir
      Kir 17 January 2014 18: 49
      +1
      It is a pity that he was not even embodied as an experimental machine !!! And so, given its contours, it is very even possible to fit into the concept of stealth with a small proof-reading.
  27. Strategist
    Strategist 20 January 2014 09: 27
    0
    Rather, it will be based on the T-4 "Sotka"
    1. Evrepid
      Evrepid 21 January 2014 10: 42
      0
      The production technology necessary for his building was lost with a probability of 90% of the people who did it already probably only found on graveyards. :(
      This is more likely to indicate what will happen with the use of traditional materials and carbon fiber with ceramics.
      1. Kir
        Kir 21 January 2014 16: 46
        0
        T-4 with titanium, so .......
  28. Al_lexx
    Al_lexx 21 January 2014 18: 08
    0
    Thank you, a very interesting and detailed article. It’s a pity that the development ahead of its time in terms of technology and our then management, in terms of a thoughtful approach.
  29. svp67
    svp67 24 January 2014 13: 01
    0
    But then there were many such projects ...
    Dry

    Myasishchev ...
  30. Sledgehammer
    Sledgehammer 30 January 2014 17: 37
    0
    As far as I know, supersonic and stealth is a bad combination, the question is: What are the requirements of the Air Force for the new
    bomb-ku, stealth, or the old way, like the Tu-160. I won’t be surprised if it is carefully processed
    Tu-160 in new "clothes".