Military Review

Chronicle dive aircraft industry. How to stop the collapse of the domestic aviation industry

130
Chronicle dive aircraft industry. How to stop the collapse of the domestic aviation industry



Another plane crash and death at the end of last year again drew attention to the problems of air transport. It has long been no doubt that the aircraft industry and the operation of aircraft in Russia are experiencing a long systemic crisis.

In 1990, in our country 140 million passengers were transported, in the USA - 200 million. Then we abandoned the country's aeration policy, and the States continued it. As a result, in the 2012 year, we had only 74 million passengers, and in the US - 730 million.

In the United States, domestic flights account for 95% air traffic. So it was with us before 90-ies, and today the transportation within Russia is only 45%. The reason for this situation is not only that Russians began to fly abroad more often, but also because regional air traffic almost disappeared. To get from one Siberian or Far Eastern city to another, you often have to fly through Moscow.

The USSR possessed a powerful aircraft-building complex. 85% of these capacities were concentrated in Russia, about 13% in Ukraine and 2% in Uzbekistan, not counting individual small enterprises scattered throughout the Union. Almost all aviation science was located in the RSFSR.

There is an opinion that civil aviation we trailed behind the military and was built on the residual principle. Is it really? Suffice it to say that the development of IL-12, IL-14, IL-18, Tu-104, Tu-134, Tu-154, An-10, An-24, IL-62 began almost even during World War II and continued up to xnumx's. But it should be recognized that Soviet aircraft designers paid little attention to environmental, navigation, system-ergonomic and comfortable requirements. Only in later projects (IL-1980, Tu-86, IL-204) did they give greater importance to these issues. As a result, the USSR could export its civil aviation only to the countries of the third world and under certain conditions.

This led to the fact that structural imbalances in the aviation industry began to manifest themselves in the late 80-ies in connection with the destruction of the bipolar world system, the termination of the existence of the Warsaw Pact and the CMEA. The consequence of these events was a sharp reduction in the supply of aircraft to countries that were previously in the sphere of military-political and economic influence of the former USSR. When the collapse of the Union occurred, the Soviet aviation industry quickly fell into disrepair, unable to withstand competition with the West.

The current state of our aviation is characterized by almost complete chaos in the system of technical regulation and regulatory framework. Today's documents, such as the Air Code, aviation rules and standards are essentially only attempts to harmonize them with the rules in force in the world. Well-known design bureaus are no longer able to implement serious breakthrough projects. They "eat up" the Soviet backlog: new models of our aircraft have roots in the distant Soviet past. The complete absence of major programs led to the fact that the production facilities of aircraft factories turned into semi-abandoned workshops with outdated equipment.

According to experts, at present Russian factories do not offer a single mainline aircraft on the market that could compete on equal terms with Boeing and Airbus. The new developments of An-148 and Suhoi SuperJet 100 are regional planes that will be too expensive on long-haul flights. The MC-21 project currently under development will appear on the market no earlier than 2017 of the year. The most famous Russian project in the field of aviation - Super Jet Sukhoi, experts say, is worse than the current Brazilian Embraer.

One of the most acute problems of Russian aviation is flight safety. According to the Aviation Safety Network Database, 2011 air crashes occurred in 15 in Russia, in which 113 people died. In the second place of this sad rating is the Republic of Congo, in which for the same 2011 year there was an entire 3 air crash, where 111 people died. Then follow Morocco, Iran, Indonesia and Papua New Guinea.

True, there has been a positive shift in this issue: in 2012, the number of accidents associated with civil aircraft of commercial aviation of the Russian Federation, compared with 2011, decreased by 70,6% (53 people died). Also the year before, seven accidents occurred, 799 incidents, 14 emergencies and 101 damage to aircraft on the ground. With aircraft of general aviation happened 16 air crashes, which is 62,2% less than in 2011 year. The leaders of the list of “black” statistics were the An-2, An-28, MiG-29 and Su-25 aircraft. However, the participants of the two most tragic air crashes for Russia were the Franco-Italian aircraft ATR-72 and the rising star of the domestic aviation industry SSJ-100.

A frequent cause of plane crashes is the so-called human factor, or pilot error. Moral obsolete An-2, Yak-52 and Yak-18T are still exploited in flight schools. Pilots who have learned the old aircraft come to work on new cars without the necessary skills. And the number of flown hours is completely insufficient for good preparation. Preparing a pilot is not at all a cheap task, but by investing money in this training, you can reduce the risk of the “human factor” to a minimum.

Over the past two decades, more than a thousand of 1400 airports that existed during Soviet times were closed. The volume of passenger traffic on regional routes has decreased four times, and on routes within the region - by ten times. But local air travel in the regions of Siberia, the Far East and the Far North is the only way to get to your destination. According to experts, small civil aviation is the only affordable vehicle for the 15 of millions of people living in the country occupying the 60% of the total area of ​​Russia.

Performance indicators in civil aviation show some successes of domestic enterprises. In particular, ten SSJs were assembled in 2012. If you take the issue of civilian aircraft, there is improvement, but there is no fracture. Now manufacturers go to one plane per month. For our country, this is not bad, but compared to the global aircraft manufacturers, this is a drop in the ocean.

However, even these small successes were spoiled by the news of a possible bankruptcy: the manufacturer of Superjet liners, the Sukhoi Civil Aircraft (GSS) company, was on the verge of financial insolvency. She accumulated debts on 2,1 billion dollars and violated conditions on a number of loans. In particular, the company has delayed payments to the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development, and also violated the conditions for granting loans received in VEB and the European bank WestLB. However, it was possible to agree that during 2013, banks would not demand early repayment of loans, but during this time the company had to overcome financial difficulties. Recall that the regional Superjet airliner is the first aircraft developed and produced in Russia, and not in the USSR. In 2012, we managed to sell 12 machines, and 2013 airliners were on the 27 sales program of the year.

One of the acute problems of domestic aviation - training. Today, the personnel reserve of the industry is completely exhausted. In the old days, the 50-year-old commander of the crew was very rare, and now in flight work there are 24% pilots older than 50 years and about 50% approached this age. The average age of aircraft commanders is 49 years, while in 1991, it was less than 40 years, and second pilots were up to 30 years.

Annually deducted from flight work around 400 pilots, graduated from 200 educational institutions. At the same time, the most experienced, capable Russian aviators fly to work in India, Vietnam, and South Korea. There is a steady demand for our pilots abroad, because the level of their training, which was laid over the years, until 1990, was very high.

The state associates the prospects of aircraft industry with the Federal Target Program (FTP) “Development of Russian civil aviation technology before 2015 of the year”. This program is aimed at solving the problem of the competitiveness of the civilian sector of the aviation industry in the domestic and foreign markets. The department of aviation industry has analyzed the projects of light multi-purpose aircraft, developed over the past 10 years. There were a lot of projects, but none of them reached the finish, that is, mass production. For various reasons, most are either closed or implemented in a single instance.

The situation is better in the helicopter sector - here almost the entire line is filled with helicopters that are either already in operation or in the stage of initiative development. Proposals of OJSC "Helicopters of Russia" cover the whole range of needs of potential customers. In order to remedy the situation, the sub-program "Small Aviation" was adopted. The estimated amount of support up to 2025 of the year is 20,5 billion rubles. One can only hope that someday Russia will be able to rise to the sky again.
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Originator:
http://www.novopol.ru/-hronika-pikiruyuschego-aviastroeniya-text156694.html
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  1. kaktus
    kaktus 11 January 2014 16: 05
    +2
    Yeah ... they thought that the largest state in the world would not do without aviation - but we *** for 25 years ahead. UMPO, UPPO, UAPO, KuAPO - this is only a small part of the aviation industry ...
    1. GreatRussia
      GreatRussia 12 January 2014 16: 10
      0
      In 1990, 140 million passengers were transported in our country. As a result, in 2012 we had only 74 million air passengers, and in the USA - 730 million

      And what? In 1990, the population of the USSR was 288,6 million people. Now in the Russian Federation the population 143 million people and the population is poorer in the USA 316 and a half million.
      1. treskoed
        treskoed 12 January 2014 17: 22
        +23
        Quote: GreatRussia
        In 1990, 140 million passengers were transported in our country. As a result, in 2012 we had only 74 million air passengers, and in the USA - 730 million

        And what? In 1990, the population of the USSR was 288,6 million people. Now in the Russian Federation the population 143 million people and the population is poorer in the USA 316 and a half million.

        And if you compare the size of the territory? Yes, and plus the lack of motorways! Another picture is drawn!
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. sledgehammer102
          sledgehammer102 12 January 2014 20: 20
          +16
          Quote: GreatRussia
          And what? In 1990, the population of the USSR was 288,6 million people. Now in the Russian Federation the population is 143 million people and the population is poorer, in the USA 316 and a half million.

          You’re right, in general the article looks like another attempt to compare warm with soft in the genre "Crying the next patsreota".

          In the USSR, many aircraft were produced - YES
          USSR aircraft were comparable in reliability with their Western counterparts - rather, yes
          USSR planes were more comfortable and more economical than their Western counterparts - NO
          Aircraft industry in Russia in 90 was collapsed - YES
          The aircraft industry in the Russian Federation at a given moment is in decline (continues to fall or stomps in place) - probably not.
          Is it possible to restore the industry in 10 years? - NO
          Is there an obvious positive trend in the development of aircraft manufacturing in the Russian Federation? - Yes of course
          1. sledgehammer102
            sledgehammer102 12 January 2014 20: 20
            +15
            Now we will go through the theses and distortions of the author.
            aircraft construction and aircraft operation in Russia are experiencing a long systemic crisis.

            Not worried, but overcomes, and this crisis is far from systemic. With the advent of the UAC, the development and production system just appeared, now it takes time to restore complete production chains.
            As a result, in 2012, we had only 74 million air passengers, and in the USA - 730 million.
            Comparing 1990 and 2012 head-on is silly and wrong, the trend is important to us. We look at the schedule.

            [/ Center]

            As for the 2013 of the year, according to the Federal Air Transport Agency, despite all the crises and forecasts of Khazin, over the 11 months, Russian airlines transported 78,4 million passengers. This is 14,2% more than in the same period of the previous year. The occupancy rate of passenger seats was 80,1%. Everyone noticed that about 1991 million remained before the 6 indicator of the year (USSR)?
            http://www.gazeta.ru/business/2013/12/13/5801689.shtml

            In the United States, domestic flights account for 95% of air traffic. So it was with us until the 90-s, and today transportation within Russia is only 45%.

            So where could Soviet citizens fly during the USSR? Only domestically or in the Warsaw Pact countries.

            The reason for this situation is not only that the Russians began to fly abroad more often, but also because regional air traffic has almost disappeared.

            We look at the schedule.
            [/ Center]
            It is clearly seen that with the volume of domestic Russian air traffic increased by more than 3 times (the table does not contain data for 2012 and 2013 years when passenger traffic was growing dynamically).
            Separately for inter-regional air transportation here
            http://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2013/08/13/261374.html
            http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/31314/
            http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/39073/
            http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/28282/
            http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/38895/
            http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/38711/
            http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/39066/
            http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/29535/
            http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/15935/
            http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/39424/
            http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/35661/

            http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/25458/
            http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/35166/
            http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/32117/
            http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/23525/
            http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/20006/
            http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/33418/
            In comparison with the USSR, achievements are not so hot, but the dynamics are quite rosy.
            1. sledgehammer102
              sledgehammer102 12 January 2014 20: 21
              +19
              Let's continue the analysis.

              Well-known design bureaus are no longer capable of realizing serious breakthrough projects. They "eat up" the Soviet groundwork: new models of our aircraft have roots in the distant Soviet past.


              Does this 100 Superjet with MS-21 have Soviet roots? Well, then PAK FA is a stub of the Soviet aircraft industry.

              Russian plants do not offer a single mainline aircraft on the market that could compete on equal terms with Boeing and Airbus


              Discovered America! For 10 years to create a company for equal competition in the global market ... the USSR did not achieve this either.

              The new An-148 and Suhoi SuperJet 100 developments are regional aircraft that will be too expensive on long-haul flights. The MS-21 project currently under development will not appear on the market earlier than 2017.


              And he said that there are no new developments ...

              in the 2011 year in Russia there were 15 air crashes in which 113 people died. In second place in this sad rating is the Republic of Congo, in which, during the same 2011 year, there were only 3 plane crashes, where 111 people died. Then follow Morocco, Iran, Indonesia and Papua New Guinea.


              We choose a year that was rich in aircraft accidents and voila! We are the leaders! And what about a year earlier in 2010, for example? Although it must be admitted that there are problems, and they are serious, including "hack-work" in the training of pilots, but it is not worth exaggerating.

              If we take the issue of civilian aircraft, there is an improvement, but there is no turning point. Now manufacturers go on one plane per month.


              Well, actually, the dynamics show us a much more optimistic picture
              Total civil vessels from 2008 to 2013: 12-12.
              Threefold growth in four years. And at the end of the 2013 (from November), the Superjet has a cycle of 10 days, that is, at least 3 of the aircraft per month, and not 1. The plan for 2014 is already 60 boards. Let me remind you that the plan for the 2012 year Sukhoi fulfilled despite floods and other problems.

              Helicopters
              [/ Center]


              The aviation industry department analyzed projects of light multi-purpose aircraft that we have developed over the past 10 years. There were many projects, but not one of them reached the finish line, that is, mass production.

              And they did it right. It will be faster and better to localize an effective and reliable Embraer. What has already been done. And in parallel with this, already seek their import substitution, and not make citizens wait by the sea for weather in the field of interregional transport.

              That's about in this spirit, and you can make out each of the paragraphs of this epic.
              1. alexng
                alexng 13 January 2014 00: 46
                +9
                Quote: sledgehammer102
                The MS-21 project currently under development will not appear on the market earlier than 2017.


                My son works in this MS-21 project - they promise to take him into the air in the 2016 year. And it will be three modifications on regional, interregional and main. How did these whiners get: like, everything was gone and plus they add emissions of their internal bowel movements to the fan. It may be enough to whine, especially since for your whining you get only a cookie from your fate.
            2. Rus2012
              13 January 2014 10: 38
              +2
              Quote: sledgehammer102
              It is clearly seen that with the volume of domestic Russian air traffic increased by more than 3 times ...
              In comparison with the USSR, achievements are not so hot, but the dynamics are quite rosy.

              ... only now ... on whose devices is this an achievement?
              1. sledgehammer102
                sledgehammer102 13 January 2014 11: 15
                -1
                Quote: Rus2012
                ... only now ... on whose devices is this an achievement?

                And what do you want, to achieve such achievements on the Tu-154? Everything will be, only a period is needed, especially since the two projects that we really need are developing very dynamically.
          2. alone
            alone 12 January 2014 20: 29
            +3
            Quote: sledgehammer102
            The aircraft industry in the Russian Federation at the given moment is in decline (continues to fall or stomps on the spot) - rather, NO.



            Quote: sledgehammer102
            Is it possible to restore the industry in 10 years? - NO


            Pavel, what a disagreement it is. If the answer to the first question is really NO, then the answer to the second question is generally incomprehensible.
            logically, if the industry is subject to recovery, then the answer to the first question ASAP NO is untrue.
            1. sledgehammer102
              sledgehammer102 12 January 2014 20: 45
              +8
              Quote: lonely
              Pavel, what a disagreement it is. If the answer to the first question is really NO, then the answer to the second question is generally incomprehensible.


              The fact that the industry is in decline (all the same in terms of pace and volume of production we still have to cut and saw) is obvious. But the concept of DROP is broad enough, as is the obvious difference between such conditions as KOMA (as in A. Sharon) - STROKE - MULTIPLE Fractures (and this is our case) - ARI.
              After the collapse of the USSR, all industry faced three problems
              1) Break in production chains (fractures)
              2) Management and total discord in the state
              3) Lack of orders, and, accordingly, financing


              Now many plants are loaded to capacity, and in parallel with this is an active technical re-equipment, including in the aviation industry. But resuscitation is not a quick matter.

              Actually, therefore, we have just such a situation with the answers YES and NO
              1. Normal
                Normal 12 January 2014 22: 07
                +7
                Quote: sledgehammer102
                But resuscitation is not a quick matter.

                As usual, you write something that you don’t even realize.

                For reference; if resuscitation is not started in the first 5-7 minutes after cardiac arrest, then even if the patient was able to return from the other world, irreversible consequences in the mental and physical state are not inevitable. If the patient’s resuscitation measures do not give positive results within an hour, then doctors with a clear conscience can stop tormenting the body. Resuscitation is quickotherwise it’s only visibility

                All your graphs are not worth one AN-2. Can you name the domestic development mastered in at least pilot production capable of replacing this aircraft in the coming 3-5 years?
                The desire for unreasonable optimism in numbers and percent does not replace real machines, pilots and functioning aerodromes
                1. sledgehammer102
                  sledgehammer102 12 January 2014 22: 23
                  +5
                  Quote: Normal
                  As usual, you write something that you don’t even realize.

                  For reference; if resuscitation is not started in the first 5-7 minutes after cardiac arrest ...


                  В resuscitation a person can get with a beating heart, but with many other problems. And as for our aviation industry, we almost reached this state.

                  Quote: Normal
                  All your graphs are not worth one AN-2. Can you name the domestic development mastered in at least pilot production capable of replacing this aircraft in the coming 3-5 years?


                  1) An-2 is now a Ukrainian plane.
                  2) This year, Rostec and the Austrian Diamond Aircraft signed an agreement this year to establish in Russia the production of light passenger aircraft with capacities from 9 to 19 people.
                  3) for the production of regional aircraft: Rostec State Corporation will produce in Canada Q400 Canadian Bombardier.
                  http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/45768/

                  Since we need airplanes here and now, everything is done correctly. In parallel with this, you can think about your project, moreover, having on hand a license or technology from leading companies.

                  How long should the project to create an analogue of An-2 take? From drawing to mass production?

                  P.S. When throwing replicas like "you write about what you don't know / understand" or "at your age it is still too early to talk about it" against very specific figures, it looks more like the White Flag
                  1. Normal
                    Normal 12 January 2014 23: 57
                    0
                    Quote: sledgehammer102
                    A person can also get into intensive care with a beating heart, but with many other problems.

                    You only confirmed that:
                    you write something that you don’t even realize.

                    For especially self-confident and gifted:
                    The concept of resuscitation literally means "revitalization" or "return of life". But at the present stage it includes the whole range of measures to restore and maintain vital (vital) functions of the body.

                    From a medical point of view, in intensive care can be identified:

                    cardiopulmonary resuscitation (SCR) is an emergency measure, the need for SCR arises with a sudden cardiac arrest or breathing.
                    intensive therapy is a set of measures taken to eliminate the consequences of respiratory arrest and / or heart function. Also, the tasks of intensive care include eliminating or alleviating the pathological condition that led to the development of a life-threatening disruption in the body.

                    neotlozhnaya-pomosch.info/reanimaciya.php


                    Ie resuscitation is a process, a set of measures, ACTION.
                    You use jargon
                    Also, the word "resuscitation" is used as jargon in relation to intensive care units, medical institutions and specialized emergency teams. For example: transferred to the intensive care unit, the intensive care unit left for the accident.

                    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resuscitation

                    Quote: sledgehammer102
                    An-2 is now a Ukrainian plane.

                    An-2 is first of all a SECONDARY PLANE. And do not engage in demagogy and boltology.
                    Quote: sledgehammer102
                    for the production of regional aircraft: Rostec State Corporation will produce in Canada Q400 Canadian Bombardier.

                    About that and speech. A great aviation power, including the efforts of the current government, has slipped to the level of third-rate countries such as Canada and Brazil, and you are glad about that, how happy a young child is to import chewing gum.
                    Quote: sledgehammer102
                    Since we need airplanes here and now, everything is done correctly. In parallel with this, you can think about your project, moreover, having on hand a license or technology from leading companies.

                    To listen to you this way everything that the current rulers are doing is correct. They are destroying the domestic aviation industry - rightly so, since it allegedly does not meet modern requirements. They give the market to foreign developments - again, it is correct, as there are leading airlines in Canada and Brazil. So soon we will be buying advanced aerospace technologies from Kenya and at the same time "thinking about our project"
                    1. Russ69
                      Russ69 13 January 2014 03: 44
                      -2
                      Quote: Normal
                      Destroy the domestic aviation industry - right, because it supposedly does not meet modern requirements.

                      Why is it collapsing? The pace of production is growing, very decently. New aircraft are being developed.
                      They give the market to foreign developments - again correctly, since Canada and Brazil have leading airlines.

                      We will be forced to purchase aircraft for the simple reason that they are needed now. And in the coming years on their own, it is simply not realistic to saturate the market.
                    2. demel2
                      demel2 13 January 2014 06: 24
                      +2
                      We are already buying UAVs from Arabs, and we will soon reach Kenya with such a leadership.
                  2. Normal
                    Normal 12 January 2014 23: 57
                    +2
                    Quote: sledgehammer102
                    When replicas are thrown .... against very specific numbers, this is more like the White Flag

                    One more time:
                    Quote: Normal
                    All your charts (and "specific numbers") are not worth one AN-2. Can you name a domestic development mastered in at least pilot production capable of replacing this aircraft in the next 3-5 years?


                    Instead of a white flag, you throw out a bunch of meaningless words and think that it will work? There is reality, and there is statistics which, as a rule, has nothing to do with reality. You like optimistic statistics, but I don't like pessimistic reality.
                    1. sledgehammer102
                      sledgehammer102 13 January 2014 04: 32
                      +3
                      Quote: Normal
                      An-2 is first of all a SECONDARY PLANE. And do not engage in demagogy and boltology.


                      Ruslan is also a Soviet aircraft, so what? Like Sevastopol - the Soviet port. The problem is that the USSR is not, and the plants where AN-2 was built are in Ukraine. Accordingly, the question is, what place is this Russian plane?


                      Quote: Normal
                      About that and speech. A great aviation power, including the efforts of the current government, has slipped to the level of third-rate countries such as Canada and Brazil, and you are glad about that, how happy a young child is to import chewing gum.


                      It was great, but it was more of a military orientation, and it remained, but with the civil aviation industry we had nothing to do in the world market even under the USSR, they only sold it to Iran and Libya, and even then, for "thank you".

                      Quote: Normal
                      To listen to everything that the current rulers do is right. Destroy the domestic aviation industry - right, because it supposedly does not meet modern requirements.

                      First, open your eyes and re-read my messages. Where do I write that everything is fine with us? The same thing happened with my articles about salaries and pensions, where you used the same dirty trick as "juggling".

                      Quote: Normal
                      They give the market to foreign developments - again correctly, since Canada and Brazil have leading airlines.

                      In order not to give up the market, it is necessary to have something to supply there, but for now it is better to have three factories on your territory and finished aircraft in a year or two than plans and drawings. About the same with an aircraft carrier, to scratch your self-esteem of your own importance and build an avik is an option, but from the point of view of pragmatics - this is far from the primary task.

                      Quote: Normal
                      So soon we will be buying advanced aerospace technologies from Kenya and at the same time "thinking about our project"

                      For some reason, just the opposite. The United States launches rockets into space on our engines, and for Airbus and Boeing, a number of nodes are also acquired in Russia.

                      Quote: Normal
                      Also, the word "resuscitation" is used as jargon in relation to intensive care units, medical institutions and specialized emergency teams. For example: transferred to the intensive care unit, the intensive care unit left for the accident.

                      And then, you write that I don’t understand what I’m writing))) I understand just that, just in the absence of any arguments, you start using another dirty trick - changing the thesis and pulling words out of context.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. aviamed90
                        aviamed90 13 January 2014 10: 43
                        +5
                        sledgehammer102

                        Regarding the production of An-2, you are only partly right.

                        In the USSR, An-2 was mass-produced:

                        "1949-1952 - at the aircraft plant number 473 in Kiev, produced 185 cars.
                        1953 — 1963 - at the aircraft factory number 473 in Kiev, produced 3164 machines.
                        1966-1971 - at the Dolgoprudny Machine-Building Plant (Dolgoprudny, Moscow Region), 506 An-2M modification machines were produced. "(VKP)

                        So it really Soviet aircraft.
          3. Bersaglieri
            Bersaglieri 13 January 2014 02: 03
            0
            I agree for 100%
          4. Rus2012
            13 January 2014 10: 35
            +2
            Quote: sledgehammer102
            The aircraft industry in the Russian Federation at the given moment is in decline (continues to fall or stomps on the spot) - rather, NO.


            It depends on which industries ...
            The military rather pushed off the bottom and goes into positive dynamics. Especially for fighters, attack aircraft ... in short for light aircraft. On heavy - everything is also more likely in decline.
            But, not even that is regrettable ...
            It is regrettable that the GA is in the crap ... The market is almost completely dominated by western airplanes. And as you know, GA is a military locomotive. Only a balance of military and civilian products can ensure the positive dynamics of the entire industry ...
            So, in the aircraft industry there is still a lot of work ... and the land is not plowed ...

            Mb close cooperation with China will provide a breakthrough in the long-distance segment and will allow to regain its lost share ...
            1. sledgehammer102
              sledgehammer102 13 January 2014 11: 14
              -2
              Quote: Rus2012
              It is regrettable that the GA is in the crap ... The market is almost completely dominated by western airplanes.


              No one denies this, but in the absence of their projects, which takes a lot of dough, and most importantly time - 10 years, there is nothing to worry about. One project was implemented at the world level in terms of technology, the second is on the way to the 2016-17 year. The wide-body will be joint with Chinese aircraft manufacturers. Moscow was not built in a day.

              Quote: Rus2012
              And as you know, GA is a military locomotive.

              And not vice versa??? Although, at present, these are two industries that are very distant from each other.
              Swedes make civilian aircraft?


              Quote: Rus2012
              Only a balance of military and civilian products can ensure the positive dynamics of the entire industry ...

              100%. Very correct judgment, we still have a strong imbalance, due to the lack of projects and capacities for GA

              Quote: Rus2012
              So, in the aircraft industry there is still a lot of work ... and the land is not plowed ...

              And we take the first, but very peppy steps ... drinks

              Quote: Rus2012
              win back your lost share ...

              We never had this share, but it was unclear what kind of deals were with the allies and countries of the Warsaw Pact, since the former could not buy anything from the West, and the others could not.
              1. Rus2012
                13 January 2014 11: 25
                +1
                Quote: sledgehammer102
                We never had this share.

                ... Wait, almost all long-distance routes even Aeroflot performs on watermelons and Boeing, even inside the country ... 6 or 4 IL-96 do not make the weather ...
                1. sledgehammer102
                  sledgehammer102 13 January 2014 12: 09
                  -3
                  Quote: Rus2012
                  ..Although Aeroflot performs almost all the long-distance routes on watermelons and Boeing, even inside the country ... 6 or 4 IL-96 do not make the weather ...


                  But why the hell should they fly on old carcasses or Ilah? They are inferior in fuel efficiency, and in the number of crew members.
        3. 31231
          31231 12 January 2014 21: 23
          +6
          And if you compare the size of the territory? Yes, and plus the lack of motorways! Another picture is drawn!

          Something I misunderstood your comment. Do we have hectares of territory flying in airplanes?
          Lack of motorways ?! Now or in the Union?
          And if we compare it with the Union, then the passenger flow must now be taken not only from the Russian Federation, but also from all the former republics. Now they fly dozens of times more abroad than under the Union.
    2. Civil
      Civil 12 January 2014 16: 17
      +8
      Performance indicators in civil aviation show some successes of domestic enterprises. In particular, ten SSJs were assembled in 2012. If you take the issue of civilian aircraft, there is improvement, but there is no fracture. Now manufacturers go to one plane per month. For our country, this is not bad, but compared to the global aircraft manufacturers, this is a drop in the ocean.


      What aircraft manufacturing ?! In the country, trouble with homosexuals! Europe is in danger, and you're talking about the aviation industry!
      1. GreatRussia
        GreatRussia 12 January 2014 16: 20
        +8
        How to stop the collapse of the domestic aviation industry

        Probably, as it was done in the domestic helicopter industry.





        Or military aircraft:

        Russian aircraft industry relies on military transport aviation
        http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/28213/
        1. Samaritan
          Samaritan 12 January 2014 17: 35
          +7
          Well, of course, a few dozen civilian aircraft (36 for 2013) are few for Russia,
          but still it’s a rise, take-off, taxiing to take-off, etc.))) .... but not like it’s not a peak (((

          Five-Year Schedule:


          That's very good. detailed link to new aircraft: http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/45585/
        2. Andrey57
          Andrey57 12 January 2014 22: 50
          +3
          The state associates the prospects of aircraft industry with the Federal Target Program (FTP) “Development of Russian civil aviation technology before 2015 of the year”. This program is aimed at solving the problem of the competitiveness of the civilian sector of the aviation industry in the domestic and foreign markets. The department of aviation industry has analyzed the projects of light multi-purpose aircraft, developed over the past 10 years. There were a lot of projects, but none of them reached the finish, that is, mass production. For various reasons, most are either closed or implemented in a single instance.


          And Mr. Poghosyan, who has completely stifled all the designs of Design Bureau Ilyushin and Design Bureau Tupolev, and not allowing ready-made design planes of Design Bureau Tupolev to serial production, is sleeping and sees when his shitty Superjet will be covered and really Russian planes will start making, not his screwdriver trash !!! fellow
          1. Rakti-kali
            Rakti-kali 13 January 2014 00: 43
            0
            Quote: Andrey57
            And Mr. Poghosyan, who in the bud strangled all the developments of Design Bureau Ilyushin and Design Bureau Tupolev

            Uh-huh ... I personally strangled the unfortunate Desdemona - Tu ... But the Tu company does not have an aircraft. Absolutely no. What has been in reserve since the times of the USSR for 15 years does not meet modern standards. But effective Tupolev managers, continuing to sip on state money, do not stop shedding tears of crocodiles over the "stranglers", instead of developing new ones or bringing them to mind (although it's probably easier to do something new than to change something ... already have) old projects.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. aviamed90
              aviamed90 13 January 2014 10: 56
              +4
              Rakti-kali

              Yes?

              And Tu-204, Tu-214, Tu-334?

              Out of date? Maybe!

              But only by what such parameters? Call me!
              No GPS? No LCD displays in the cockpit? Are the engines noise-friendly? Not enough soft seats?

              So modify them as you need, launch in a series and fly!
              1. sledgehammer102
                sledgehammer102 13 January 2014 11: 17
                0
                Quote: aviamed90
                But only by what such parameters? Call me!


                For example
                1) number of pilots,
                2) accessories with international certificate
                3) Fuel efficiency of engines
                4) Noise

                To bring everything to mind in the same Tu-334 - you need to build a new plane
              2. Rakti-kali
                Rakti-kali 14 January 2014 00: 49
                -2
                Quote: aviamed90
                And Tu-204, Tu-214, Tu-334?

                These bagless suitcases are already so uncomfortable to pull that it is high time to throw them away.
                Quote: aviamed90
                Out of date?

                About 15 years ago.
                Quote: aviamed90
                So modify them as you need, launch in a series and fly!

                They do not need to be modified, but FULLY REDUCE. Tu-204, 214 - heavy, outdated engines, avionics, in terms of fuel efficiency, it will lose to everything that is possible, the declared characteristics did not show. Tu-334 - you need a new wing, engines, avionics, fuel efficiency is the same as that of the older brother, the claimed characteristics, too, could not show. Moreover, its operation in the existing version can be dangerous due to errors in the design of the wing.

                For example

                Thank you, sledgehammer102, for answering the question asked me, you did it more concisely. good
      2. ty60
        ty60 12 January 2014 16: 59
        0
        I apologize, like instead of a plus, I minus
        1. Samaritan
          Samaritan 12 January 2014 17: 39
          +3
          Schedule
      3. 11111mail.ru
        11111mail.ru 12 January 2014 17: 49
        +9
        Quote: Civil
        In the country, trouble with homosexuals! Europe is in danger

        Well, what can I say, someone that hurts, that about MOT and g ....
      4. Rus2012
        13 January 2014 11: 22
        +2
        Quote: Civil
        And as you know, GA is a military locomotive.
        And not vice versa??? Although, at present, these are two industries that are very distant from each other.
        Swedes make civilian aircraft?

        The meaning of the phrase is that releasing the GA - the aviation industry keeps plants, people busy, trains them. Example - VT is also not evenly produced, and civilian products are massively mass produced in large quantities ...
        Although, of course, innovation and the most advanced with the military are roaming the civilian (and massively replicated, but then) ...

        As for the Swedes - and they, besides the lungs, do not seem to let out anything else ...
        Unable to produce long-range liners - it will not work and produce heavy bombers. Everything is interconnected...
        1. sledgehammer102
          sledgehammer102 13 January 2014 12: 12
          -1
          Quote: Rus2012
          The meaning of the phrase is that releasing the GA - the aviation industry keeps plants, people busy, trains them.


          Actually, Rogozin speaks about this in every interview, just now nobody is letting the military plants stand idle

          Quote: Rus2012
          Unable to produce long-range liners - it will not work and produce heavy bombers. Everything is interconnected...

          We are able to produce airplanes that can fly to America, the same wide-body from Ila, where the issue of comfort and fuel efficiency is not as acute as with the GA.
          And the problem with us is that all the 90x projects, having no time to make the first flight, were already inferior to all their analogues in terms of operating costs and compliance with international requirements.
    3. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 12 January 2014 17: 47
      +2
      Quote: kaktus
      KuAPO is only a small part

      Not advertising rights, but in terms of "filtering" bazaar "". Countryman, by letter, just for you: "Kumertau Aircraft Manufacturing Enterprise", or in a new, commodity-money version of JSC "KumAPP". Nothing personal, just accuracy in the presentation of thought forms.
    4. da113
      da113 12 January 2014 18: 00
      +7
      It is necessary to block the possibility of receiving kickbacks for each foreign aircraft purchased, as well as leasing of imported aircraft older than 5 years. To expand the ability of Russian airlines to acquire Russian aircraft on favorable terms and to encourage them, to reduce the tax burden for each new board purchased. To give enterprises an interest-free long-term development loan!
      1. Vovka levka
        Vovka levka 12 January 2014 19: 06
        +3
        Quote: da113
        It’s necessary to block the ability to receive kickbacks!

        This is already like a spell.
        There is such a wonderful film "Beware of the car". And there the father-in-law (Papanov) speaks in court: "What would you be dead, that you would live on one salary." That is, this lesser evil will die, not living on one salary. In general, it is surprising that the Caesura missed this anti-Soviet, but the point is different. It was already a big problem then, but now it is a national disaster.
        In general, the countries of the former USSR, I personally call the countries of "Rollback", because everything is built on this. And surprisingly, it doesn't matter whether you are dealing with state structures, or with private ones. Here's a paradox. Are you talking about aircraft construction?
        Before any production, it is necessary to lay at least 20-30% of the cost of the product on kickbacks. Here is such a reality.
        1. samoletil18
          samoletil18 12 January 2014 22: 23
          +5
          Quote: Vovka Levka

          There is such a wonderful film "Beware of the car". And there the father-in-law (Papanov) speaks in court: "What would you be dead, that you would live on one salary."

          "The Diamond Arm". It must be a shame, comrade!
          1. Vovka levka
            Vovka levka 12 January 2014 23: 05
            +2
            Quote: samoletil18

            "The Diamond Arm". It must be a shame, comrade!

            Wrong, it happens. Probably getting old. Thanks so much.
        2. alexng
          alexng 13 January 2014 10: 42
          +2
          Quote: Vovka Levka
          Before any production, it is necessary to lay at least 20-30% of the cost of the product on kickbacks. Here is such a reality.


          Over the hill, this is legalized and called bonuses, but the essence remains the same. It's just that our managers adopted this scheme, but called it differently. So we have a banal forgery of concepts both in the West and in our country, whose name is corruption. Yes, and Russia, in these parameters, still falls short of the Western values ​​of "kickback bonuses". These are the kitten pies.
          1. Vovka levka
            Vovka levka 13 January 2014 12: 17
            +1
            Quote: alexneg

            Over the hill, this is legalized and called bonuses, but the essence remains the same. It's just that our managers adopted this scheme, but called it differently. So we have a banal forgery of concepts both in the West and in our country, whose name is corruption. Yes, and Russia, in these parameters, still falls short of the Western values ​​of "kickback bonuses". These are the kitten pies.

            In suitcases, cash on the hill is almost not worn, but with us it’s for health.
        3. The comment was deleted.
      2. Starina_hank
        Starina_hank 12 January 2014 19: 31
        +8
        Somehow I don’t understand, there’s a tax on used foreign cars, but there’s no tax on used foreign cars! It looks like the automotive lobby will be abruptly aviation!
    5. starshina78
      starshina78 12 January 2014 19: 17
      +9
      Let's start with the fact that in the USSR everything was state-owned! And in modern Russia all companies are private, with the exception of Aeroflot, where the state has a stake. In the nineties, Boeing and Airbus put a lot of effort and money so that our planes were not bought or produced. Russia is a huge market! So we got what the gentlemen of the crap wanted! An open market and competition, that's just a one-sided open market and one-sided competition. The authorities cannot order private companies, such as Transaero, to order the purchase of Russian planes, but it can create conditions for these planes to be bought, but it is doing something sluggishly. Even Aeroflot, which is half state owned, does not even take Russian planes. Although many experts claim that our Il-86 and Tu-214 are not bad planes. SSJ is not a Russian aircraft, more than half are imported parts, but at one time there were excellent aircraft with which there were practically no accidents (Il-18 and Il-62, for the entire period of operation, the accident rate is the lowest in the world, and then a large proportion of accidents occurred due to the fault of the crews). So it is necessary to revive civil airliners again, because it was possible once.
      1. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 12 January 2014 19: 47
        +16
        For that fought for it and ran. They hammered into our heads the myth of the inferiority of EVERYTHING domestic, and now we are surprised at what is happening. They destroyed their own, and the capitalists were supported by opening new markets to them. Only now, at all attempts to revive the aviation industry, liberals will scream about the violation of democracy and the revival of imperial ambitions.
        Personally, my opinion is: it’s time to close up our sleeves and tidy up the industry without regard to the various bleating of those who disagree; otherwise, private companies will continue to cut loot on the western junk and will be ahead of the rest in disaster.
        1. konvalval
          konvalval 12 January 2014 20: 55
          +5
          Yes, not only in the industry, in the state, either.
        2. Skiff_spb
          Skiff_spb 12 January 2014 22: 35
          +6
          In fact, there are pluses.
          Remember the late 90s? "We'll fly again on the 154, when they are written off, they constantly fall, it would be better if they flew on an old Boeing!"
          And now the trend is more and more "Boeing has fallen again, when will this old be written off, when will our new planes be?"

          So now there is a tendency for their planes to become more and more quoted.
      2. sledgehammer102
        sledgehammer102 12 January 2014 20: 58
        +8
        Quote: starshina78
        Although many specialists claim that our IL-86 and Tu-214 are not bad planes. SSJ is not a Russian aircraft, most half are imported spare parts.


        1) The role is played by the price + operating costs and the number of pilots, on the Tu-214 as I understand them, 3, and not 2?

        2) The reason for choosing foreign suppliers is not only the lower weight or higher reliability of the systems. The main and main criterion is the possibility of certification of components separately, and systems in the aircraft - according to EASA / FAA. As well as the ability to create these systems for reasonable time, money, with a guarantee of quality and price stability. Russian suppliers did not undertake to provide either the first, second, or third. And the task was unequivocal: the possibility of certification SSJ according to international standards. This is one of the basic principles, if you want, of the “cornerstones” of this project, without which it would not have been implemented.

        For this reason, there is a leak detection system in the Superjet air conditioning system: it was not used in the Russian air conditioning systems, but the same Liebherr has been familiar with it for a long time. And it is impossible to certify an airplane in Europe without this component. And such "nuances" are present in almost every system. The plane might have been praised for the choice of domestic suppliers, only for the SSJ itself, market opportunities were very vague.

        Think about what would happen if the superjet were NOT put all the best that was at the time of design. And put on the principle of "if only domestic." The answer is very simple: it would have turned out another Tu-334, an airplane that was not certified in the west and not sold even in Russia itself.

        Airbus, Boeing, Embraer, MRJ and CRJ have the same situation with units. All aircraft manufacturers put on their liners the best that is on the planet and no one bothers with pseudo-patriotic ideas in the style of "put the domestic".

        For fun, you can look at the "American Boeing", which is American, only the tail assembly.
        1. Makk
          Makk 12 January 2014 21: 33
          0
          For fun, you can look at the "American Boeing", which is American, only the tail assembly.

          All this is so, only these countries are some kind of American.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Russ69
            Russ69 12 January 2014 21: 56
            +4
            Quote: Makk
            All this is so, only these countries are some kind of American.

            The middle part of the new Boeing, developed in Russia. At my side, the factory makes components for it.
          3. sledgehammer102
            sledgehammer102 12 January 2014 22: 00
            +3
            Quote: Makk
            All this is so, only these countries are some kind of American.


            For example, Russia, which supplies components to both Airbus and Boeing, or American Germany, together with Korea and Japan.
            Sorry, but I did not quite understand how to distinguish an American country from a non-American one. Only highly developed countries can be partners in the aviation industry, and it is clear that components for a Boeing will not be brought from Iran or the DPRK, but from Russia they can, and from Germany, and from Canada, as in these countries there is an aircraft industry.

            P.S. American China supplies magnets for f-35 ....
        2. Normal
          Normal 12 January 2014 22: 32
          -5
          Quote: sledgehammer102
          SSJ


          Oh great SUPERJET! You are our (not quite ours of course, most likely only pro-government) hope, you are our excuse, you are our EVERYTHING !!!
          It does not matter that you are the only one in the entire post-Soviet industrial space, and that you are just a regional plane (In the Union of such "regionals" there were at least two Tu-134 and Yak-42, not counting any Il-18, An- 24 and other little things) the main thing - YOU ARE !!! And it doesn't matter that your numerous glorious predecessors-hard workers Yak-40 and Yak-42, Tu-134 and Tu-154, Il- 62 and IL-86. You're cooler !! True?!
          1. sledgehammer102
            sledgehammer102 12 January 2014 22: 42
            +1
            Quote: Normal
            And it doesn’t matter that you, as the only son and a bad-looking grandson in ripped jeans, tucked, pierced, and tattoos are watched reproachfully by your many glorious predecessors-hard workers Yak-40 and Yak-42, Tu-134 and Tu -154, Il- 62 and IL-86. You're cooler !! True?!


            It is really cooler, since the above models you immediately became banned from abroad due to their characteristics.

            And there is no need to rub in here about the fact that he is alone. He is a pilot project of the UAC project, it will have a NG modification, and the MS-21 will appear in parallel, but for some reason it seems to me that your message will not change the tone, only the word "one" will change to the word "three".
            1. Normal
              Normal 13 January 2014 00: 35
              +2
              Quote: sledgehammer102
              He's really cooler

              Of course! And Rogozin Orsis is really cooler than Kalash.
              Quote: sledgehammer102
              since the above models you immediately became banned due to their characteristics.

              How old are you? Who is the one to travel abroad?
              Yak-40 in the Western world

              The certificate of airworthiness of Italy and the Federal Republic of Germany was obtained in 1972 and thus the Yak-40 became the first domestic aircraft [5] [6], which was given the opportunity to be operated by companies in capitalist countries.


              Used since 1970 in 19 countries

              Angola - 5 pcs, a / c "TAAG";
              Afghanistan - 3 pcs;
              Bulgaria - 13 units, of which 10 are in the Balkan airport, 2 are in the aviation department, 1 is in the air traffic control inspectorate
              Hungary - 1 pc, flying laboratory;
              Vietnam - 8 pcs;
              Honduras - 1 unit, sold in 2000 [19] by the Kamchatka airline;
              Zambia - 2 units, presidential squadron;
              Italy - 3 pcs;
              Cambodia - 3 units, were leased with a replaceable Soviet crew for 5 years;
              Cuba - 17 units, of which 8 in the a / c "Cubana" and 9 in the government squadron;
              Laos - 2 pcs;
              Madagascar - 2 units, government squadron;
              Poland - 19 units, almost all in the government squadron;
              Syria - 7 units, a special detachment of the Ministry of Defense;
              Czechoslovakia - 26 pcs.;
              Germany - 5 pcs;
              Equatorial Guinea - 2 units, of which 1 is the presidential board and 1 passenger in the a / c “LAGE”;
              Ethiopia - 1 pc., Presidential board;
              Yugoslavia - 6 units, government squadron.

              en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yak-40


              Tu -154 -ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Operators_TU154.png

              IL-62
              81 aircraft was manufactured for export to the socialist camp countries: Angola, Hungary, East Germany, North Korea, China, Cuba, Mozambique, Poland, Czechoslovakia.

              en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Il-62

              Quote: sledgehammer102
              He is a pilot project, a UAC project, he will have a modification of NG, and MS-21 will appear in parallel,

              That's when they appear then he will not be alone. In the meantime, he is alone
              1. sledgehammer102
                sledgehammer102 13 January 2014 04: 46
                -2
                Quote: Normal
                Of course! And Rogozin Orsis is really cooler than Kalash.

                Are you sarcastic, or are you really comparing a brick with a kilogram?

                Quote: Normal
                Tu -154 -ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Operators_TU154.png

                http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ru/thumb/4/44/%D0%9E%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%
                B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%8B_%D0%A2%D1%83-154.png/800px-%D0%9E%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D
                0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%8B_%D0%A2%D1%83-154.png

                What should this photo tell me? That we pushed our planes free of charge to Mozambique and Cuba and a number of other "allied" countries?

                Quote: Normal
                81 aircraft was manufactured for export to the socialist camp countries: Angola, Hungary, East Germany, North Korea, China, Cuba, Mozambique, Poland, Czechoslovakia.

                Same question.

                Quote: Normal
                That's when they appear then he will not be alone. In the meantime, he is alone

                In the meantime, pour snot on the topic "All is lost !!!!"
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. aviamed90
              aviamed90 13 January 2014 11: 21
              +4
              sledgehammer102

              Why is the SSJ cooler, for example, the Yak-42 in terms of LTX and flight safety?

              Avionics? By engines?
              Or is comfort in the cockpit and saloon crucial for you?

              Modify it with these modern "pribluds" and "trick" and fly to your health.
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. aviamed90
          aviamed90 13 January 2014 11: 14
          +4
          sledgehammer102

          Yes. On the Tu-204 of all modifications (except Tu-204cm) 3 crew member (2 (!) pilot and flight engineer). Tu-214 - modification of Tu-204 (formerly Tu-204-200).

          Ну и что?
          What prevents you bortoch?

          We and the Westerners different crew layout and distribution of duties among crew members.
          Who says our option is worse and less secure?


          For example, on Embrarer-195 there are 2 crew members (pilot and pilot-operator). In fact, there is 1 pilot (aka - captain). 2nd (pilot-operator) does not have the right (and does not know how) to control the aircraft and only works with fittings in the cockpit. This is not a piloting "pilot".

          Cheaper? At first glance, yes. Cheaper. But is it safer? Not. Not safer. And in the end (given the load on the pilot and possible emergency situations due to his fault) is not cheaper.

          So what is better - 1 or 2 pilot?
    6. varov14
      varov14 12 January 2014 20: 00
      +4
      Why the devil is the 3rd Moscow ring of the highway for me, I’ll ride through bumps, and these ... rings, build a ring. Let the people's money for the revival of the aviation industry.
    7. Reasonable, 2,3
      Reasonable, 2,3 13 January 2014 03: 54
      +5
      Quote: kaktus
      Yeah ... they thought that the largest state in the world would not do without aviation - but we *** for 25 years ahead. UMPO, UPPO, UAPO, KuAPO - this is only a small part of the aviation industry ...

      The author is right. I was a witness to the conversation between Ilyushin and the Boeing. They did not hesitate to directly declare a quote. We will not let you build a wide shuttle. and quote: Our economy will not pull it. Here and think who is to blame. And I can name specific names.
      1. sledgehammer102
        sledgehammer102 13 January 2014 04: 49
        -3
        Quote: Reasonable, 2,3
        I was a witness to a conversation between Ilyushin and a Boeing.


        Strong!!! Is it under such circumstances that Boeing had to bother with such conversations?

        Quote: Reasonable, 2,3
        The French, when they found out that we were already running an 2 glider (Tu-154, Tu-144) were stunned and quote: Our economy will not pull this.


        At that point, I didn’t even get it if you are talking about Soviet times. There were planes, but there was no sausage.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. aviamed90
          aviamed90 13 January 2014 11: 30
          +4
          sledgehammer102

          So are we talking about planes or sausage?
          1. sledgehammer102
            sledgehammer102 13 January 2014 12: 17
            -2
            Well look.
            Quote: varov14
            We and the Westerners have a different crew layout and distribution of duties among crew members.
            Who says our option is worse and less secure?


            And the salary will have to be multiplied by three and all the associated costs of training and maintenance. Therefore, the option with three pilots may be safer, which I very much doubt in our century of automation, but airlines vote in rubles


            Quote: aviamed90
            So what is better - 1 or 2 pilot?

            Both pilots are able to control the plane, and landing in most cases is done in a semi-automatic mode. And in general, there’s nothing to talk about, since no one will buy airplanes with three pilots, Boeings are not the first ten to fly like this, and nothing has been released so far.
  2. AVV
    AVV 12 January 2014 12: 57
    +12
    Gorbachev, Yeltsin made their efforts to destroy what was created in the USSR for decades !!! Hitler is just resting! After 1945, a huge breakthrough was made in the industrialization of the country! The development of Siberia and the Far East, the opening of new industries !!! If to take the periods of 20 years of development of our country 1945-1965 and compare with 1993-2013, the result will not be in favor of the latter! Although then the country was in complete ruin after the Great Patriotic War !!! But the enthusiasm of the population was at its best, that's the result! !!
    1. klim44
      klim44 12 January 2014 16: 13
      +7
      Gorbachev, Yeltsin made their efforts to destroy what was in the USSR
      If we take the periods of 20 years of development of our country 1945-1965 and compare with 1993-2013, the result will not be in favor of the latter
      Gorbachev was not in power near 1993
      Yeltsin was left to rule for 6 incomplete years
      The question is who has ruled the RF for the last 14 years. What does this same leader do if avmaprom dives steeply down?
      1. Samaritan
        Samaritan 12 January 2014 18: 04
        +8
        The results of work in 2013 were summed up at the Tolmachevo airport in Novosibirsk. Over the past 12 months, the air harbor has served significantly more passengers than a year earlier. The plans for the coming year are even more ambitious.

        The growth in passenger traffic amounted to 14,7%, the number of passengers amounted to almost 3,75 million. At the airport, it was noted that about 1,6 million people were served on international routes, and nearly 2,2 million on domestic flights. From January to December 2013, 20 aircraft landed and took off from Tolmachevo, which is also more than the indicator of the previous period. For 838 months, according to preliminary data, 12 29 tons of cargo and mail were handled at the airport.

        I can do everything else, but I'm afraid it’s not interesting for you ... You memorized mantras, you can’t get out of a trance ...
        1. varov14
          varov14 12 January 2014 20: 30
          +1
          Imagine dear comrade, now on TV they show hundreds of passengers thrown at airports, when you count them for statistics, they bought tickets, and your statistics will trample uphill.
      2. sledgehammer102
        sledgehammer102 12 January 2014 20: 25
        +1
        Quote: klim44
        The question is who has ruled the RF for the last 14 years. What does this same leader do if avmaprom dives steeply down?


        Since 2003, growth in all respects.
        1. varov14
          varov14 12 January 2014 20: 45
          0
          Samaritan. I remember, in Soviet times, there were failures and for some reason (it was always known), we did not fulfill the plan and then wrote a pencil, I wanted to get a prize. But the next month, we tore ass @ itza and blocked the plan. But then, now I am inclined to believe only in the indestructible power of a pencil, the frames are the same, but with a gut already flush, corrupted.
        2. varov14
          varov14 12 January 2014 21: 04
          0
          sledgehammer102 ---- I remember in Soviet times, there were failures and for some reason (it was always known) we did not fulfill the plan and then wrote a pencil, I wanted to get a prize. But the next month, we tore ass @ itza and blocked the plan. But then, now I am inclined to believe only in the indestructible power of a pencil, the frames are the same, but with a gut already flush, corrupted.
        3. sergeschern
          sergeschern 13 January 2014 02: 06
          -1
          Housing and communal services, or what?
      3. AVV
        AVV 13 January 2014 09: 33
        +1
        Quote: klim44
        The question is who has ruled the RF for the last 14 years. What does this same leader do if avmaprom dives steeply down?

        Yes, he only does that, which corrects what the last two presidents have done !!! First of all, he re-equips the army, so money reaches the civilian aircraft industry according to the residual principle! If the first two didn’t bring the army to this state, then the latter would gladly spend this money on civilian aircraft manufacturing !!! Priorities are set, must be fulfilled !!! Otherwise there will be no normal weapons, America will crush under itself and the remains of the aircraft industry, and even destroy what it is! I agree that the money give little to the aviation industry, but we do not have the Fed that prints money like candy wrappers !!!
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. sledgehammer102
        sledgehammer102 12 January 2014 20: 26
        -1
        Quote: 11111mail.ru
        .....................deleted by moderator Apollo


        Well, that's why it’s very funny for me to hear criticism of everything and everything that happens in our country from the lips of those who had the right to vote in 90.
        1. 11111mail.ru
          11111mail.ru 12 January 2014 21: 58
          +1
          Quote: sledgehammer102
          who had the right to vote in the 90s.

          Personally, in 1991 he voted against Mr. Elson B.N. for A.G. Tuleyev. Guilty, not a democrat, sir!
          Hallo. Apollo! V 1990 iv 1995 ja lichno golosoval protiv vuperdushei zapada. And you gentlemen - comrades for whom did you vote? Vot i celuite seichas siebia vd "up" u.
    3. varov14
      varov14 12 January 2014 20: 23
      +3
      Fate Lack of ideas, petty goals, inadequate power - zero results
    4. demel2
      demel2 13 January 2014 10: 19
      +2
      so far no one can explain the phenomenon of the technological breakthrough of 1945-1965, there has never been such a thing before or after.
  3. fzr1000
    fzr1000 12 January 2014 13: 06
    +19
    SuperJet no worse than Embriere.

    "A brief comparison.
    I managed to fly on Embraer 175 (both in economy and in business) before flying on SSJ and I can say with confidence that:
    1. There is more "air" in the Superjet, there is no feeling that you are in a bank with other sprats. The 175th Embraer is far behind here. The Superjet makes you feel like you're in an A320.
    2. The seats in SSJ are wide. Wider than the seats on the Embraer, and even on the A330 (I barely fit in the first chair after the business in the A330!). The neighbor does not push his elbows (maybe I was lucky).
    3.On July 10, it was hot in Moscow, about 24 degrees in the shade around 10 am. It was NOT hot on the plane. I like to turn on individual airflow almost always, but its absence on the Superjet didn't bother me too much. "

    Distance to armchairs
    1. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 12 January 2014 18: 15
      -12%
      Quote: fzr1000
      SuperJet no worse than Embriere

      Glad for you and for your tactile sensations, and tequila under the ajar chest of the stewardess also produces a good feeling. Life is good when you drink slowly ...
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 12 January 2014 18: 45
        +8
        Quote: 11111mail.ru
        and tequila under the ajar chest of the stewardess

        Duc ... wassat
        And I would not refuse lol and under the open ... hehe.
        As an airliner passenger, the comfort and service are pleasant to me. Especially in this "transcription". laughing
    2. Samaritan
      Samaritan 12 January 2014 19: 02
      +2
      Usually foreigners have so much space only at the emergency exit! Oh, I wish there would be faster with Yak))) MS - 21 let the whole world wake up .. get drunk !!!!
    3. 31231
      31231 12 January 2014 21: 33
      +1
      I flew in Embraer, I didn't like it. Slightly better than our "ANYUTA" for comfort. I haven't seen the Superjet yet.
    4. Skiff_spb
      Skiff_spb 12 January 2014 22: 41
      +4
      In fact, the amount of free space is not an indicator. Here, as the company orders, so will the chairs be instructed. Essno companies are trying to push as many people as possible and narrow the place. They used the places at the emergency exits and made up standing places, but the rules forbid =)
    5. The comment was deleted.
    6. aviamed90
      aviamed90 13 January 2014 11: 34
      +2
      fzr1000

      Do you judge the merits of certain aircraft only by the comfort of passenger seats in their cabins?

      But what about the rest?
  4. fzr1000
    fzr1000 12 January 2014 13: 08
    +9
    The answer to this article.
    As you know, in the United States, domestic flights account for 95% of air traffic. So it was with us until the 90s, and today air transportation within Russia makes up only 45% of air traffic (that is, 55% of air traffic in Russia is made up of international flights).

    What conclusion can be drawn from these numbers? Well, for example, you can understand this so that US citizens are de facto limited in their ability to leave their country and fly away to rest or on business abroad - while Russian citizens fly abroad a lot and willingly. It follows from this that the United States is a closed, encapsulated country in itself - like the USSR that “closed the border” (which is what the similarity of the air traffic structures of the current USA and that of the USSR tells us), and today's Russia is an open country, achieving real freedom of movement for its citizens.

    Do you know what a noteworthy Russophobe will see in these numbers? Well, of course - the fact that "Wed @ naya Raska is rolling to Wed @ naya g @ vno". In all seriousness, they explain such numbers by the fact that "regional air traffic in Rashka has almost disappeared. To get from one Siberian or Far Eastern city to another, you often have to fly through Moscow."

    These clowns don’t even understand that the flight from point A to point B with a transfer to another flight in Moscow is considered in statistics as TWO flights, and this practice, on the contrary, should lead to an overestimation of the number of regional flights (which, incidentally, happens in the USA - there connecting and connecting domestic flights are quite popular). And by the way - the trend in Russia is exactly the opposite, the number of direct direct flights is growing, as a result, with an increase in passenger turnover and transported passenger kilometers, the statistical number of flights performed may even decrease. Optimization.

    But the most advanced "experts" go further. For example, Vladimir Gurvich in his article "Chronicle of Dive Aircraft Industry" (http://www.novopol.ru/-hronika-pikiruyuschego-aviastroeniya-text156694.html) stated literally the following:

    Suffice it to say that the development of Il12, Il14, Il18, Tu104, Tu134, Tu154, An10, An24, Il62 began almost during the Great Patriotic War and continued until the 1980s. As a result, the USSR could export its civil aviation only to third world countries and under certain conditions.

    Did you understand? Tu-154, it turns out, began to develop during the Great Patriotic War. The "expert" is unaware that the Boeing-727, from which the Tupolev Design Bureau copied the main ideas of the Tu-154, flew for the first time on February 9, 1963, and only by the end of the same 1963 the Tupolev and Ilyushin Design Bureau was given a task to create a Soviet analogue.
    1. Fin
      Fin 12 January 2014 16: 08
      +12
      Quote: fzr1000
      It is enough to say that the development of IL12, IL14, IL18, Tu104, Tu134, Tu154, An10, An24, Il62 began almost during the Great Patriotic War

      From the wiki:
      The development of the IL-62 was started in the early 1960s, when Aeroflot developed requirements for a long-range aircraft capable of non-stop flights from Moscow to Khabarovsk and Havana.
      The development of a new twin-engine passenger aircraft An-24, intended for operation on local airlines, began at GSOKB-473 named after O.K. Antonova in 1958 in accordance with the decree of the Council of Ministers of the USSR No. 1417–656 of December 18, 1957.
      Tu-134 (according to NATO codification: Crusty— “Tough”) is a Soviet passenger aircraft for short and medium-haul airlines, developed in the early 1960s at OKB im. Tupolev and mass-produced from 1966 to 1984
      The development of the AN-10 of the new four-engine passenger aircraft “U” (“Ukraine”), designed for operation on airlines with a length of 500 to 2000 km, began at the ANTK them. O.K. Antonova at the end of 1955 in accordance with a government decree of November 30, 1955.
      This Gurvich is lying like Trotsky.
      1. 11111mail.ru
        11111mail.ru 12 January 2014 18: 39
        -1
        Quote: Fin
        Gurvich is lying like Trotsky

        It would be better to separate the comma to the filthy word HOW filthy Leib Davidovich Bronstein from Comrade Guvich!
        In the elementary grades of the school of the 60s of the last century, arithmetic problems were solved in comparison with the time of flight of the Soviet Tu-114 plane through the Atlantic Ocean with an American plane and the problem was solved taking into account the greater speed of the Tu-114. Maybe I was wrong in solving puzzles for primary school children?
    2. Reindeer herder
      Reindeer herder 12 January 2014 17: 25
      +5
      What can I tell you .. only + deliver. When liberoid personalities pathetically declare that we have no enemies, I can partly agree. What for are our enemies if there are such "patriots" as Gurvich. This "patriot" does not even understand the price of the opus he wrote. His lies are another reason for enemies to discredit the patriotic movement.
      1. Sid.74
        Sid.74 12 January 2014 17: 30
        +6
        Quote: Reindeer Herder
        This "patriot" does not even understand the price of the opus he wrote. His lies are another reason for enemies to discredit the patriotic movement.

        good I read your comment and remembered what Dmitri Puchkov witnessed early witty videos about intellectuals and elites, I advise you to watch!
        1. killganoff
          killganoff 12 January 2014 20: 35
          +5
          A goblin is not a good person. I am far from being a designer, I was born and raised in the village, my relatives are in the same place: none of the people I know voted for the chosen leaders. My colleagues, officers, did not vote either. This power has long been not chosen by the people.
          1. Botanologist
            Botanologist 12 January 2014 23: 53
            +6
            Quote: killganoff
            This power has not been chosen by the people for a long time.


            Sorry - the people. Just not your co-workers, but other co-workers.
            But the Goblin says something else - that reality is objective (the so-called sensory), and there is mythical. Objective is how you live. And the mythical is what you think about through the prism of another’s opinion and another’s ideals. For example, there are a lot of visitors on our website who tell us how wrong Putin controls the country and how to do it right. This is just mythology, because none of them even managed the ministry, and they don’t know the realities of managing large heterogeneous structures with elements of external uncertainty. You can cite a lot of such examples, they do not change the essence - almost all people on this site discuss things that they know little about, but want to know more. And including me. It’s just that some lead positive discussions and get useful information, while others post cheap demotivators and reduce the discussion to an assessment of their position. Which, in fact, is uninformative.
            As for ratings, I deal with them regularly and professionally, and I want to say that in different environments there are different electoral preferences. If all the officers are for Cygnus, then all the prisoners are for Zhirinovsky. And all the ladies up to 40 years old and divorced - for Hakamada. So what?
    3. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 12 January 2014 18: 27
      -14%
      Quote: fzr1000
      Well, for example, you can understand this in such a way that US citizens are de facto limited in the ability to leave the borders of their country and fly away to relax or on business abroad - while Russian citizens fly a lot and willingly.

      Did you say that?
      Quote: fzr1000
      Do you know what a noteworthy Russophobe will see in these numbers? Well, of course - the fact that "Wed @ naya Raska is rolling to Wed @ naya g @ vno". In all seriousness, they explain such numbers by the fact that "regional air traffic in Rashka has almost disappeared. To get from one Siberian or Far Eastern city to another, you often have to fly through Moscow."

      So count, dear, in what form of geometry the sum of any two sides in the triangle would be LESS than the third side?
      Quote: fzr1000
      Did you understand? Tu-154, it turns out, began to be developed during the Great Patriotic War.

      Do you know, dear "fzr1000", that in modern ErEfii the main criterion for assessing the knowledge of an object is "Unified State Exam"?
    4. venerius
      venerius 12 January 2014 19: 51
      +4
      Air transportation also depends on the cost of flights. In the 90s
      years, a ticket from Leningrad to Ufa was 30 rubles. Student scholarship 40 rubles. All flew.
      1. 11111mail.ru
        11111mail.ru 12 January 2014 21: 19
        +4
        Quote: venerius
        In the 90s
        years a ticket from Leningrad to Ufa was 30 rubles. Student scholarship 40 rubles. All flew

        The answer is: 02.04.1979/27/50 Ufa-Pulkovo (45 rubles 5 kop.) Stipa UAI (without blood pressure) 5 rubles. (for those who are not in the know = 6 course +6 rubles, the friend above did not lie). So, gentlemen, shitcrats, a Soviet student during the time of "totalitarianism" had the opportunity to fly to pre-graduation practice in "Peter" for a week, look at a couple of museums in between pubs, arrange a "promenade" along the Nevsky in the evening, and the Moldovan "sukhachi" - they did not take away the commies at the airports. I bought it on the 7th line of Vasilievsky Island, next to the station. "Vasileostrovskaya". Liters for XNUMX-XNUMX were taken out by the c / s "Pulkovo". The tooth was removed in the clinic on the street. Cash on Vasilievsky Island two (or three) tram stops from the hotel overlooking Kronstadt.
  5. fzr1000
    fzr1000 12 January 2014 13: 09
    +16
    After this, other passages of the "expert" can no longer surprise:

    The most famous Russian project in the field of aircraft construction - Sukhoi Super Jet, according to experts, is worse than today's Brazilian "Embraer".

    Well-known design bureaus are no longer capable of realizing serious breakthrough projects. They "eat up" the Soviet groundwork: new models of our aircraft have roots in the distant Soviet past. The complete absence of major programs has led to the fact that the production facilities of aircraft factories have turned into half-abandoned workshops with outdated equipment.

    It is characteristic that the model of the "today's" Embraer, which is supposedly better than the Sukhoi Super Jet, is not named by the "expert". But we know that the SSJ's competitor is the Embraer 190. Let's hear what the operators think of it:

    The president and chief executive officer (CEO) of the low-cost airline JetBlue Airways is disappointed with the fleet of Embraer 190 aircraft. Mr. Barger also expressed dissatisfaction with the General Electric CF34 engines that are installed on the aircraft of the Brazilian aircraft manufacturer. “We are not particularly happy to see these engines on Embraer airliners.” David Barger regretted making an order for E-190 aircraft.

    There are currently 54 Embraer 190s flying at JetBlue. If I remember the report for BlueJet for 2011 correctly, this airline changed the contract for the supply of Embraers, reducing their number from 100 to 75. Although she had to pay a penalty for this. In addition, part of the Embraers purchased by the airline is being leased to other airlines because it is inefficient to use them on its lines. The essence of the problems is low reliability, a large amount of maintenance, poor fuel economy, a cramped cabin (the Embraer has 4 seats each, and the SSJ has five seats, and with a wider aisle between them, respectively, the SSJ has a larger fuselage diameter and cabin volume, more space above your head, many times more luggage racks and so on).

    People have already calculated the average fuel consumption of Embraer 190 on a bunch of real flights, it amounted to 2061 kg / h. For comparison, the average fuel consumption of the actually operated SSJ-100 is 1615 kg / h, and even in the most disadvantageous mode of short flights it does not exceed 1800 kg / h. So this figure alone is enough to bury the Embraer 190. Moreover, the catalog price of the E-190 is $ 40 million, the SSJ-100 is $ 36 million. That is, Embraer is not only worse, but also more expensive.

    Embraer is aware of this, and is already preparing a new line of E-Jets E2 - but alas, these machines will fly no earlier than 2018, if at all.
    1. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 12 January 2014 18: 41
      -3
      Quote: fzr1000
      these cars will fly no earlier than 2018, if at all.

      Answer for the forecast? I will bet!
      1. Uralean
        Uralean 12 January 2014 21: 19
        0
        Do you have your own head? So think about taking risks or not? Betting is such a thing .. You can lose, but you can win? And then they want a tricky one with insurance? .. However..)))
    2. not good
      not good 12 January 2014 20: 22
      0
      If they buy it, then it is beneficial for someone, most likely one of those whose signature is under the contract!
    3. Rus2012
      13 January 2014 12: 20
      +1
      Quote: fzr1000
      It is characteristic that the model of the "today's" Embraer, which is supposedly better than the Sukhoi Super Jet, is not named by the "expert". But we know that the SSJ's competitor is the Embraer 190.

      They say there is still a Chinese competitor ... ARJ21
      http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/COMAC_ARJ21_Xiangfeng
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. aviamed90
      aviamed90 13 January 2014 12: 43
      +2
      fzr1000

      I will support you.

      Our AK acquired at the end of the 2013 2 Embraer-195 (also known as a modification of Embraer-190) on lease. The problems started right away.

      1. First - with customs clearance. Aircraft stood in England 2 month.

      2. Airplanes are not new. Managed to fly to the UAE for about 5 years. Replaced engines. The fuselages were painted in AK colors. Well, the general marafet was brought up. And that’s it.

      3. Several pilots retrained in Paris on this type of aircraft. The rest study on the spot under the supervision of Brazilian and Ukrainian instructors. The costs of paying for their services, I assure you, are not small.

      4. The technical staff is forced to retrain for a new type of Sun and, in addition, take English courses with an aviation technical bias (all technical documentation is only in English). Also, the costs are not small.

      5. Then the hose adapters on our TK did not fit. I had to order from the manufacturer. Aircraft have been parked for more than 1 months. Do not fly - again losses. All this time they were heated with heat guns (huge expenses). For this reason, even part of the lighting of the apron was turned off.

      6. It turned out that the voltage in the electrical network is with large differences. And the on-board computer always gives "Not ready for service". Note - not for flight, but for service! We solved the problem somehow.

      7. Before the flight, the crew must know the exit scheme (and even a bunch of data) already at the stage of preparation for the flight. All this is entered into the computer, which gives its decision about the possibility of flight (in the parking lot). There have already been cases of confusion with the scheme of leaving the RA, loading the side.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. aviamed90
        aviamed90 13 January 2014 12: 46
        +3
        Read more.

        For this reason, the runway-12 is not advisable. Because when fully loaded by passengers, the computer does not show readiness for flying at an insufficient take-off distance (in addition, 5 cm of the antenna protruding above the safe zone interferes). The computer calculates all this and says: reduce the load of passengers or baggage (there is an option to cut off the antenna). Losses again. Or fly with Runway-30! And if the wind or the air does not allow?

        8. It is permissible to taxi only on the 1-th taxiway (from 3-x) on PCN and ACN. For the same reason, only 3 parking is used.

        9. But all the problems have been successfully resolved and the board is on the executive. During takeoff, the computer takes as a reference point the point of a specific runway threshold (exceeding the threshold relative to sea level) with the corresponding takeoff heading and calculates. And he did not realize that our runway is with a downward slope. Difficulties arise during takeoff, because the plane starts to slow down at the command of the computer, which is very dangerous. The computer thinks that the aircraft should scatter along the horizontal runway and go up, and instead the aircraft scatters "down" (relative to the take-off threshold) and only then up. In general, troubles.

        10. Because the engines are powerful, a stepless set of echelon is almost always required, which is also not always possible for various reasons.

        11. The engines are very low to the runway. all that is bad. Care is required for runway and taxiway maintenance. The load on the aerodrome service and again the costs (aerodrome equipment also needs to be refueled with something).

        12. The tail unit is practically not provided with an anti-icing system. For this reason, flying through the appropriate clouds is undesirable. And at low temperatures and appropriate meteorological conditions on the ground, a constant dousing with an anti-icing fluid is required. And forget about the usual "Arctic". The sun is so "gentle" that it has its own type of liquid. Again expenses.

        13. All radio communications in the aircraft cockpit between pilots (even with a Russian crew) and between the pilot and the dispatcher are in English only. Not that it caused difficulties, but nervousness brings in.

        14. The aircraft is piloted by QNH (sea level) at all stages of flight. A scheme of aerodromes are calculated by QFE (airfield pressure). It is necessary to give QFE crews and altitudes to QFE, and, upon request, QNH pressure. And he himself recalculates the heights.

        This is the "charm" our AK acquired. It remains a mystery - WHY? Why do we need such problems and costs?
        It's only the beginning. We'll see.

        And if the SSJ is worse than the Embraer-195, what "delights" are in store for it?
  6. fzr1000
    fzr1000 12 January 2014 13: 11
    +12
    The "expert" tells us about "the complete absence of major programs" - but in reality the Russian aviation industry is operating at its capacity limit. The queue for SSJ has stretched for 15 years, and although the output doubles every year (this year 24 aircraft were handed over to customers, one aircraft every 15 days) - there are much more people who want to buy an SSJ than there are opportunities to produce it.

    In fact, the main problem of the Superjet is that the plane was created under the "damned bloody Pu regime". And therefore, for any Russophobe, he will always be bad.

    We all know how to play football, how to build a plane and how to manage the state. It is a pity that all these geniuses are already working as janitors, journalists or taxi drivers.

    Or here's another "expert" writes:

    The volume of passenger transportation on regional routes decreased four times, and on routes within the region - ten times.

    Well, the fact that it is not indicated for what period the volume has decreased does not surprise us anymore, does it? Another thing surprises us - the number of passengers of Russian airlines in 2012 increased by 15,5% (compared with 2011), the total volume of work of Russian air carriers increased by 13,7% (compared with 2011) and amounted to 22,7 billion tons -kilometers. That is, such a healthy growth, just like leaps and bounds. The maximum passenger turnover (available transport capacity) amounted to 249,9 billion passenger kilometers (+ 15,8%), of which 97,9 billion passenger kilometers (+ 6,1%) on domestic airlines (international flights) and international airlines (MVL) - 152 billion pkm (+ 22,8%). Actual passenger turnover reached 195,8 billion pkm (+ 13,4%). So the graphs confirm:
    1. bddrus
      bddrus 12 January 2014 18: 51
      +1
      all is true - only unless 24 dry transferred to customers? or built 24, but transferred half as much - or not?
      1. bddrus
        bddrus 13 January 2014 11: 14
        +1
        AU people !!! minuses and pluses - it's all great, but I’d just like to know how many dry jets were handed over to the customer?
        1. sledgehammer102
          sledgehammer102 13 January 2014 12: 18
          -2
          Quote: bddrus
          AU people !!! minuses and pluses - it's all great, but I’d just like to know how many dry jets were handed over to the customer?


          erase on Wikidot.
          superjet.wikidot.com
          1. bddrus
            bddrus 14 January 2014 18: 36
            0
            an answer in the style of "google help", a forum for that and a forum for people to communicate
    2. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 12 January 2014 18: 55
      -2
      Quote: fzr1000
      So the graphs confirm:

      So confirm your credentials! Just kidding. And if without jokes, then give a link to the source of information. Any student armed with a Chinese calculator can now build the curve Y = 0,3 * X (in 2 degrees). At one time, we needed a slide rule.
      1. 11111mail.ru
        11111mail.ru 12 January 2014 21: 21
        -2
        Links to the studio! Minusyar to Amsterdam!
  7. fzr1000
    fzr1000 12 January 2014 13: 12
    +13
    One can see the growth of absolutely all types of transportation - including regional ones. Where did the prosralopolymer come from?

    And I'll tell you where. I will reveal the secret of the "correct" statistics on the recipes of the Oval Witness sect.

    You just need to take the figure for the volume of air traffic for 1991. This year, millions of people rushed to shuttle with Chinese clothes, and the airlines, still state-owned, but already moving towards privatization, began to steal jet fuel and money for aircraft maintenance - for which they cheerfully attributed passenger traffic. As a result, this year, on paper, some completely absurd number of passengers were transported - almost more than in the United States. And starting from those figures, one can cheerfully write about "the fall in air travel during the bloody Pu" and about the excellent Soviet aviation that we have lost. In addition, you can take the figure for the USSR, and compare it with Russia - the fuckers still will not understand where they are being thrown.

    True, if we start from 1991, it turns out that flights abroad have now increased about twenty times. But you can simply keep silent about this - let the suckers be indignant and curse the "bloody regime".

    The only problem is that such distortions quickly become noticeable. And the guys have to write "devastating" articles under the schizophrenic headings "The growth of passenger traffic is not happy" (seriously, this is not a joke - this is the original of such an article http://www.ato.ru/content/rost-passazhiropotoka-ne-raduet).

    The stump is clear, if a person is convinced that "Wed @ naya Raska is rolling into a mean g @ vno", then no objective successes please him, because they cause deep cognitive dissonance and pain. So the person writes:

    One can only hope that someday Russia will be able to rise again into the sky.

    The 250 billion passenger-kilometers flown by Russian aviation in 2012 were, of course, not in the sky.

    The reality is this:

    As you can see, the volume of air transportation of passengers in Russia exceeded the peak Soviet level (moreover, achieved only on paper, with the aforementioned postscripts) back in 2010, and since then it has surpassed the Soviet level by about a third, and the volume of cargo transportation by air has exceeded the Soviet level almost doubled. These are the facts. If someone wants to say that this is a collapse of aviation, then what should be called a lift?

    Yes, there are problems. But these are problems of a lower order, and they can be solved in a working order, without hysterics about "lost aircraft".

    Please accept this article as an alternative point of view. Never a cheer patriot, just the truth is always somewhere in between.
    1. hell hell
      hell hell 12 January 2014 16: 22
      0
      Have a wise guy the time will come!
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 12 January 2014 17: 08
      +7
      Quote: fzr1000
      Please accept this article as an alternative point of view. Never a cheer patriot, just the truth is always somewhere in between.

      Sergei! I like your position more than the article of the graduated polymerist. There is a position, logic, graphs, analysis. It feels like you're in the subject. This is all great.
      As a simple passenger, I am worried about the question: why did I fly to Spain on an A-320, to Greece on a Boeing-747, the Czech Republic again on a Boeing, and so on. The pilots are all young and cheerful. Where are ours? Kaliningrad squadron - all B-737 were. And as can be seen from the situation with the Superjet, these machines will not appear on our domestic airlines soon. Even you do not say anything about domestic long-haul vehicles in your article. Apparently the matter is completely seams, if we talk about MS-21 "not earlier than 2017". So "the truth is somewhere near."
    3. Rus2012
      13 January 2014 12: 11
      +1
      Quote: fzr1000
      As you can see, the volume of air transportation of passengers in Russia exceeded the peak Soviet level (moreover, achieved only on paper, with the aforementioned postscripts) back in the 2010 year, and since then it has surpassed the Soviet level by about a third somewhere, and the volume of cargo transported by aircraft almost doubled the Soviet level. These are the facts. If someone wants to say that this is a collapse of aviation, then what should be called a lift?

      ... about5 on whose sides?
      I suppose that the lion's share of foreign cars, then this is the collapse of the domestic aviation industry, but the rise of air transport ...

      Here's an interesting question - in case of cataclysms, for example with one western country, bigger than grizzly, let Colombia attack Venezuela - what will we transport goods and fighters for, will it work on watermelons and Boeing, or will it not reach?
  8. Stinger
    Stinger 12 January 2014 13: 57
    +5
    The issue is being decided by increasing import duties on aircraft of a certain class to stimulate the purchase of domestic equipment. There are no other ways. Especially for our goons who want to get everything at once. If there are no domestic customers, then there is no domestic aviation.
    1. clidon
      clidon 12 January 2014 20: 16
      +1
      Over with cars, they decided in this way, they decided, and what was the use.
  9. Shkiper
    Shkiper 12 January 2014 14: 24
    +12
    An article by a certain Gurvich, who has nothing to do with any technology other than office equipment (the conclusion follows from its content) is 100% reminiscent of another report "in the light of the latest decisions and instructions" of the Russophobic international. The editorial board of Voennoe Obozreniye, apparently, will be satisfied with any "teapot" for "sanctifying" the stated topic, if only he made the "correct" conclusion, that is, with an anti-Russian, Russophrbian bias, following the example of Echo of Moscow, TV "Rain" and other swamp media.
  10. alone
    alone 12 January 2014 15: 57
    +2
    The article, of course, raises a number of questions, there are a certain number of inaccuracies.
    But the fact that the aircraft industry is not in a joyful situation is a fact. The fact that the Superjet is in line for 15 years ahead doesn’t mean anything. Foreign flights are used on flights, which for the most part also have a large shortage of flight personnel .
    1. bddrus
      bddrus 12 January 2014 18: 57
      +1
      I don’t understand much, but it seems like the ssd-100 is not quite an analogue of the used А320 and B-737 - they are not the same ranges and capacities - therefore they are inactive at Aeroflot, here the MC21 will have an analogue (as I understand it) - and it will just have to be pushed to supplant imports
  11. Khrushchev
    Khrushchev 12 January 2014 16: 00
    -10%
    The article is excellent. SSJ - ... well, you get the point. En - THE BEST FOREVER or simply the best forever.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  12. stalkerwalker
    stalkerwalker 12 January 2014 16: 10
    +14
    Some kind of strange article ... She would have appeared 10 years ago ... On the subject of diving the domestic aircraft industry.
    About the SSJ. Did not fly. There is nothing to compare with as a passenger. But I remember the transatlantic flight to the A-310 - for the last 2 hours, all passengers were washed, and the Lufthansa stewardesses rushed around the cabin with wet wipes, so that people would not expire completely.
    And the products from McDonell-Douglas Tupolev cars did not surpass in terms of comfort - barely shoved his knees, he remembered the 134th ...
    SSJ flies, and flies, judging by the numerous comments, not bad.
    If desired, you can find more than one drawback in any aircraft, car, despite the cost and manufacturer.
  13. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 12 January 2014 16: 11
    +2
    Quote: The state connects the prospects of aircraft construction with the Federal Target Program (FTP) "Development of Civil Aviation Equipment in Russia until 2015". This program aims to address the competitiveness challenge of the civilian aviation industry ...

    Only as a result of the headshoting of the leading elite, in Russia, the harmonious system for the production and operation of aviation transport, including one of the best in the world training system for flight and engineering personnel, has been destroyed. Ahead is either the final collapse of aviation in Russia or the beginning of a real restoration of the civil aviation industry and flight training system This work is expensive. We need a lot of money and the will of leadership. You just need to and the work will go.
    1. ty60
      ty60 12 January 2014 17: 23
      +3
      Another Muscovite store on the site of the Saratov aircraft factory. Yak 38, Yak 40, Yak 42
      1. sleepy
        sleepy 13 January 2014 04: 34
        +2
        Quote: Ivanovich47
        "Only as a result of the bungling of the ruling elite, Russia destroyed the harmonious system of production and operation of air transport, including one of the world's best training system for flight and engineering personnel ..."


        Maybe not headache, but wrecking?

        "Make a decision on full exemption for a period of five years from customs duties, dues and taxes for Boeing-750 aircraft, Douglas-DC10 aircraft imported into the territory of the Russian Federation in 1994-1995 and operated on domestic and international airlines." (Order of the Chairman of the Government of the Russian Federation V.S.Chernomyrdin N 1489Р dated October 7, 1996)

        “Unfortunately, recently there has been an extremely dangerous trend of thoughtless lobbying of the interests of the domestic aircraft industry by government structures. We ask you to support the issue of the inadmissibility of the serial launch of the TU-204 aircraft on Russian air routes and the continuation of the doctrine of the acquisition of advanced models of western aircraft in leasing". (Letter of the Assistant to the President of the Russian Federation for Economics A. Livshits to the Government Рhttp: //kan-kendarat.livejournal.com/17641.htmlФ N А-1-1268Л dated April 3, 1995)

        In St. Petersburg, they quietly covered up the Aviation Instrumentation College (formerly LTAPiA).
        And what in return? Renamed LIAP to SUAI.
        Graduates of St. Petersburg State University of Aerospace Instrumentation (SUAI) receiving a diploma easily know how to properly distribute cash flows so that no one is offended.
        They know how to buy and sell profitably. They know how to eliminate costs.
        Such are the specialists.
      2. sleepy
        sleepy 13 January 2014 04: 34
        0
        But the Chinese are taking all the best and are already looking down on the Americans.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJpTzrHwHN4
  14. voliador
    voliador 12 January 2014 16: 30
    -9
    Pogosyasha with his superjet got into his sled, and now he is a natural result.
  15. Edward
    Edward 12 January 2014 16: 38
    +6
    .. Suffice it to say that the development of IL12, IL14, IL18, Tu104, Tu134, Tu154, An10, An24, Il62 began almost during the Great Patriotic War ...

    n-yes ..
    in this case, it will be true to say that Zhukovsky was developing Buran.
  16. andrei332809
    andrei332809 12 January 2014 16: 45
    +7
    flew a Boeing (I don’t remember which one) and Ile 96th. one way on one, back on the other. So in silt more spacious and more convenient. and in the Boeing, the only plus was the TV was hanging. movies were shown to us. but there was nowhere to put the legs request
  17. rodiy2007
    rodiy2007 12 January 2014 16: 50
    +9
    After reading this article I want to say that everything is collected in a heap and a lot of empty chatter with a liberal bias! In Russia, as always, everything is bad, but we do not know how to make planes! I'm not even talking about the figures given in the article, going from the ceiling. And what do you think, aircraft construction is a lot of money and compensation. After the collapse of the 90s, arranged by Gorbachev, Yeltsin and their lackeys, there was no funding for the industry, in the 2000s funding appeared, albeit in an insufficient number, but another problem arose - a shortage of personnel! There is no instant result, even with a huge infusion of funds, in this industry. MC - 21 (Yak - 242) will appear in the near future, it has a very good chance of success!
  18. calocha
    calocha 12 January 2014 16: 55
    +3
    We need several models for air transportation, and not one superjet. To oblige airlines to buy a local aviation industry, and to impose fines (taxes) on scrap metal imported from abroad. For 25 years there has been a powerful lobby inside the country, something needs to be done with these guys too ....
  19. Strashila
    Strashila 12 January 2014 16: 57
    +11
    When they talk about hundreds of millions of passengers in Soviet times, they forget to say that it was formed in the regions ... there the aircraft worked like an air taxi ... for example, Krasnoyarsk-Yeniseysk ... it took about 8 hours to get on the bus ... on an airplane 40- 50 minutes of summer, and the difference in tickets was ridiculous.
    Having destroyed the air transportation system ... their service structures have collapsed ... including aircraft factories.
    In the country there is no single control ... the private trader to the stars to the state he is only interested in loot.
    Even where in the structures there is a state priority, orders still go abroad.
    So, we invest in tens of billions of dollars in the United States ... but they themselves did not interfere.
    Machines are garbage ... we lost our shots ... not in one decade they were going to ... everything went into the sewers.
    1. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 12 January 2014 19: 03
      +3
      Quote: Strashila
      aviation worked like an air taxi ...

      I testify! Bible and Quran at hand nemae, so take our word for it! By plane to Ufa 1,5 hours at 5 rubles per flight plus 45 kopecks from the Airport to "eight-story buildings" - Ufa 1973. By bus 6-6,5 hours for 3 rubles 50k. In normal health (not with a hangover), An-2 was chosen.
      1. Starfish
        Starfish 12 January 2014 19: 35
        +4
        yes it was. now go to the north of the region by bus from 6 to 12 hours by bus (depending on where), and earlier on an-2 to 2 hours maximum, on l-410 2 times faster. Now there is nothing, neither aviation, nor airports, and even the runway as after the bombing.
        here one writes bravely about the increase in passenger traffic from Novosibirsk, so now almost all of the neighboring cities go there to fly somewhere. since from my cities I missed flights once or twice, and tickets are much more expensive than in N-sk.
  20. valokordin
    valokordin 12 January 2014 17: 04
    +4
    In order to restore the domestic aviation industry, it is necessary to take political measures, that is, replace the effective managers managing Russia, with real patriots of the country and everything will go. And to restore effective managers to 37 years.
    1. AleksUkr
      AleksUkr 12 January 2014 17: 28
      +7
      Better late than never .... ask experienced rulers for advice, not successful managers.
      1. 11111mail.ru
        11111mail.ru 12 January 2014 19: 07
        -3
        Quote: AleksUkr
        Better late than never.

        Dear, replace the picture more often, the image of I.V. Stalin in the company with the creature of A.A.Sobchak is already somewhat blurred by you.
      2. Volkhov
        Volkhov 12 January 2014 22: 54
        0
        Better than Lenin - in the mausoleum.
  21. Tektor
    Tektor 12 January 2014 17: 14
    +5
    According to experts, at present, Russian plants do not offer a single mainline aircraft on the market that could compete on equal terms with Boeing and Airbus.
    This is the absolute fuck @ e) / (. IL-96-400 is much better, including in terms of efficiency (with a load of 35 tons, the range is 13500 km, it takes up to 370 passengers), and 767, and 777 Boeing (it is too early to compare with 787 )
  22. AleksUkr
    AleksUkr 12 January 2014 17: 20
    0
    "" "" "Chronicle of the dive aircraft industry. How to stop the collapse of the domestic aircraft industry" "" ""

    Truth lies on the surface - NEEDS POLITICAL WILL. And to her great regret - NO!
    WHILE ...
  23. saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm 12 January 2014 17: 26
    +4
    So I also think that with the article the author was ten years late. Statements that there are a lot of foreign parts in the SSJ 100, and Russian manufacturers make parts for Bobik and Apbuz, are now such cooperation. Not all plants survived, but those that survived are technically re-equipped and begin to spin the flywheel.
    GSS video
    1. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 12 January 2014 17: 54
      +6
      Video on Aviastar, also does not look like a bending enterprise.
      1. Edward
        Edward 12 January 2014 23: 18
        -3
        Well, and who is served there?)
        you can embellish this ad for investors with them .. let's say with the option: "our rehtovka is the best in the world, it will be possible to teleport a little bit" ..
        but what does "our" factories have to do with it ?! Are they ours ?!
  24. zen1963
    zen1963 12 January 2014 17: 28
    +2
    It is Manturov and Poghosyan who are trying. The newspaper Argumenty Nedeli has been raising this topic for many years, even writing an open letter to Putin asking him to take action. But Putin does not see or hear. Poghosyan, to please his Superjet, does not allow Ilam, TU to develop. MIGam. He planted his people everywhere, who carry out his instructions. And what is most ugly, he continues to beg for money for his "Superjet", although he has already eaten a lot of money
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. valokordin
      valokordin 12 January 2014 18: 16
      +1
      Quote: zen1963
      It is Manturov and Poghosyan who are trying. The newspaper Argumenty Nedeli has been raising this topic for many years, even writing an open letter to Putin asking him to take action. But Putin does not see or hear. Poghosyan, to please his Superjet, does not allow Ilam, TU to develop. MIGam. He planted his people everywhere, who carry out his instructions. And what is most ugly, he continues to beg for money for his "Superjet", although he has already eaten a lot of money

      What a pig is minus you, but you are right.
    3. Russ69
      Russ69 13 January 2014 03: 31
      0
      Quote: zen1963
      This is Manturov and Poghosyan trying.

      Not tired of everything, always looking for someone to blame ... But, just not your beloved ones.
  25. treskoed
    treskoed 12 January 2014 17: 29
    -4
    The current state of our aviation is characterized by almost complete chaos in the system of technical regulation and the regulatory framework.

    I believe that manual control is also necessary here: it will give GDP an indication and the airport will develop in the right direction and within the specified time frame. As preparation for the summit or for the Olympics. Expenses, however, will be .....
    1. Starina_hank
      Starina_hank 12 January 2014 19: 57
      +3
      This makes no sense! So are we going to sit and wait for the instructions of the "great Pu"?
      1. treskoed
        treskoed 12 January 2014 20: 44
        0
        Quote: Starina_Hank
        This makes no sense! So are we going to sit and wait for the instructions of the "great Pu"?

        It turns out so ...
    2. Russ69
      Russ69 13 January 2014 03: 28
      +2
      Quote: treskoed
      I believe that here we also need manual control: give the GDP an indication and the airport will develop in the right direction and on time
      Give instructions, do not give ... To make a plane from scratch, it takes about 10 years.
  26. Nasty pirate
    Nasty pirate 12 January 2014 17: 36
    +4
    Sorry, but the article is about everything and about nothing.
  27. polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 12 January 2014 18: 09
    +1
    "Ivanych" is right !!! Effective managers have broken (as well as in other industries) the very system of production and operation of air transport and, of course, the system of personnel training. Two years ago, I flew on the "Airbus" from Rostov to Moscow, personally observed how rivets from the left the wings flew out, but they could not fly from Moscow to Kaliningrad (the flight attendants brought the commander to the board ready-made "in the trash", thanks to the "Esbeshniki" they did not let him in, they waited 2 hours for a new crew. CONCLUSION: huge money is needed, specialists and a strong-willed decision of the Kremlin!
    1. GreatRussia
      GreatRussia 12 January 2014 18: 44
      +3
      Quote: polkovnik manuch
      they could not fly from Moscow to Kaliningrad (the flight attendants brought the commander to the board ready-made "in the trash"

      ?

      In the US, a drunk pilot was detained, who was already preparing to board the airliner

      Video:
      http://www.1tv.ru/news/world/223402

      In London, a 44-year-old pilot of United Airlines, an American airline, was arrested on board an aircraft at Heathrow Airport. He is suspected of being intoxicated during work. This was announced on Monday by a police spokesman, writes Gazeta.
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/ukrainian/rolling_news_russian/2013/11/131122_ru_n_britain_
      drunk_pilot.shtml



      More video:
      http://rutube.ru/video/22a6ec72f4467a116268566ee313e525/?bmstart=3
  28. stranik72
    stranik72 12 January 2014 18: 12
    0
    "The situation is better in the helicopter sector - here almost the entire line is filled with helicopters, which are either already in operation or are at the stage of proactive development."
    As for the better, this is the magic of sales figures, in fact, everything is even sadder than in aircraft aviation, the main sales unit is the Mi-8MTV, AMT and their modifications such as Mi-17, Mi-171, Mi-172, etc. The "new" Mi-38 was developed by the USSR in the late 80s. For military aviation, the Mi-28, the development of the late 70s, the Mi-35M, the modification of the Mi-24, is the same based on the developments of the 80s, the same is for KA-im helicopters. Russian helicopters did not solve the main task, they did not create a reserve for a leap into the future, or at least reduce the gap, nothing of this is in sight. As usual in our country, if people are not responsible for the result, then they are generally engaged in advertising their "achievements".
  29. pvv113
    pvv113 12 January 2014 18: 19
    +7
    Gorbachev was not in power near 1993
    Yeltsin was left to rule for 6 incomplete years
    CORRECTLY, BUT THE DECOMPOSITION STARTED BY THE HUMPTER AND CONTINUED BY YELTSIN BETWEEN THE SHOULDERS, ALREADY GIVEN ITS FRUITS
  30. Hauptam
    Hauptam 12 January 2014 18: 33
    +1
    Chronicle of a dive aircraft industry. How to stop the collapse of the domestic aircraft industry ????? All this is a consequence of the main reason. And laws and people and technology and political will, etc. etc. We live in an occupied country. Well, judge for yourself who will let us develop the strategic sector of the national economy? Colony she is a colony we live Soviet groundwork. They couldn’t collapse at once all that grandfathers and fathers have gained. Since 1993 we have been diving and not falling. The main peak in our heads is that we are aware of where we are and why we will leave any peak .........
  31. RMRS
    RMRS 12 January 2014 18: 35
    +4
    I read it, I often have to fly for work on business trips, so the only thing that depresses is that there are few of my own planes, and it’s just a nightmare to fly in Russia. When they explain this to me, then you can fly calmly, without this sediment on your soul. A banal example: people are very willing to fly even through Moscow, because after the New Year it was necessary to get from St. Petersburg to Novorossiysk, 2 weeks before departure I bought a ticket for 5t.r. without transfers direct to Krasnodar, out of curiosity I looked, what can Russian Railways offer me! How surprised I was, looking at this, sorry, p * rnography. A ticket in a compartment on a regular train to Krasnodar costs the same !!!! !! And I don’t want to talk about the brand -8t.r.! So let these "experts" tell you about how people do not fly here ...
    1. varov14
      varov14 12 January 2014 21: 00
      -5
      People do not fly with us, they fly over, however, we have a good language, but God du @ kov rewarded us.
  32. dizelniy
    dizelniy 12 January 2014 18: 41
    +6
    [quote = rodiy2007] After the collapse of the 90s, arranged by Gorbachev, Yeltsin and their lackeys [/ quote] You can specify who you had in mind. The current Minister of Industry is a psychologist by education, who was the last Minister of Defense, you probably remember. So, taking programs for cutting the budget, we have fun walking, and no one knows where the country is going, which means that you can’t ask for results. There’s still a crisis in our heads that’s not stopping, the whole class, we are swinging money westward, the so-called the elite, as in troubled times, fearfully looking around, thinks to whom it would be more expensive to sell.
    1. sleepy
      sleepy 13 January 2014 04: 21
      0
      "When Lee Kuan Yew, the creator of the Singapore miracle, was asked how he defeated corruption in traditional Chinese (the majority of Singapore's population) society,
      he replied: "He planted two friends - the rest themselves understood everything."
      This sounds wildly against the background of a long-standing saying that “the only position that cannot be fired is a friend of the first person in the state”.
      Do not "plant"! - “fire”.
      http://delyagin.ru/articles/41789.html
    2. sleepy
      sleepy 13 January 2014 04: 21
      0
      Quote: dizelniy
      "... the so-called elite, as in a time of troubles, fearfully looking around,
      thinks to whom to sell at a higher price. "


      Different elites happen, one solves problems for decades,
      and the other for millennia.

      "Goal, which we have constantly pursued for three and a half thousand yearsis finally within reach. And, since the proximity of the goal is obvious, this obliges us to strengthen our efforts and caution tenfold.
      I can tell you with confidence that ten years will not pass,
      as our race will take its rightful place in the modern world... ".
      http://zarubezhom.com/Rabinovich.htm
  33. dpurpur
    dpurpur 12 January 2014 18: 58
    +5
    The conclusion is this: in order to start the aircraft industry, and not only it is necessary to take the same measures that were taken in the Soviet Union. Only without repression, although some Democrats could have been spanked. Sorry for the bloodlust.
  34. nikcris
    nikcris 12 January 2014 19: 03
    +5
    Quote: ty60
    Another Muscovite store on the site of the Saratov aircraft factory. Yak 38, Yak 40, Yak 42

    YAK-42D takes off as if it was launched from a slingshot, sits down like a coal iron - it flopped down, braked, and for five minutes it went to the terminal. The only plane that deeply respect.
    And the factory is no more ...
    PS He, bl, and the ladder is not needed
    1. waisson
      waisson 12 January 2014 19: 16
      +2
      yes, instead of the factory, the shopping center ORANGE shop Oshan Obi, etc.
  35. waisson
    waisson 12 January 2014 19: 21
    +4
    in the 80s, I allowed myself to fly from Krasnodar and Saratov and back, the ticket cost 25 rubles; I worked in Novorossiysk in the port; I received 350-450 rubles and now .................
    1. andrei332809
      andrei332809 12 January 2014 19: 27
      +2
      Quote: waisson
      from Krasnodar and Saratov and back ticket cost 25 rubles

      in the USSR, every year parents were transported to Belarus through Moscow. adult Orenburg-Moscow cost 29.50. tongue
  36. Samsebenaum
    Samsebenaum 12 January 2014 19: 27
    +8
    "Chronicle of the dive aircraft industry. How to stop the collapse of the domestic aircraft industry"
    So ask the Guarantor. He knows better ....
    But a wise saying for thinking - "cadres decide everything ..."
    Here is the Main frame and its environment just directly and involved in everything that we have. Is not it?
    1. sergeschern
      sergeschern 13 January 2014 02: 49
      0
      +100500 "in the very hole"!
  37. Valentine77 64
    Valentine77 64 12 January 2014 19: 32
    +1
    "The Pentagon has criticized the first aircraft carrier Gerald Ford in 40 years. It may be less effective than the outdated type" Nimitz ", which now serves in the US fleets. At the same time, the Western press unexpectedly praised it, calling it "practically invulnerable." (http://vz.ru/economy/2014/1/12/667546.html)
    And you say x_novo in Russia
    1. nikcris
      nikcris 12 January 2014 19: 44
      +1
      This ... About Fear Danians never heard? crying
    2. Samsebenaum
      Samsebenaum 12 January 2014 19: 47
      +4
      Valentine77 64
      Dear, and in fact in Russia everything is really good ...
      We are giving up our last positions. Only a blind person or an adept from "ours" does not see this.
      Individual copies of individual industries are not an indicator of a strong state.
      This is like ENEA. There is something to see, but in one place and in one copy.
      I'm not a fatalist, but maybe stop lying to each other?
    3. Uralean
      Uralean 12 January 2014 21: 36
      +1
      Dear, HERE conversation, if you notice a more mundane .. NOT at all, but about the industrial civil aviation industry, and the Russian Aviation at the moment ...))
  38. cherkas.oe
    cherkas.oe 12 January 2014 19: 49
    +1
    In general, the article was written by an eccentric with the letter "ME", as Vasily Makarych Shukshin said, only "pearl" on the topic that the Il18 and Tu-154, in a compartment with the Il-96 were designed during the Great Patriotic War, threw me into a technocratic shock, and when I read the aftor's surname a little relieved from my heart, - I realized: - "another" Jewish zakaznyak ". And therefore I appeal to the gentlemen" administrators "and" Moderators "well, please, watch what you publish on the site, otherwise it’s not disgusting only read but also visit it. ...... am
  39. Valentine77 64
    Valentine77 64 12 January 2014 19: 50
    +1
    Quote: nikcris
    And the factory is no more ...

    Quote: waisson
    yes, instead of the factory, the shopping center ORANGE shop Oshan Obi, etc.


    When perestroika began, there was talk of a new secret technology being developed in Saratov. Huge funding. Schaz ... And here we are dulea from M.S. Gorby, just that time coincided with the "grandiose" visit of Kashpirovsky (to the recreation center "Rubin"). I remember this time well
    1. nikcris
      nikcris 12 January 2014 20: 02
      +2
      Are you talking about a flying saucer, or a flat screen from Ayatskov? This figure became famous for his resignation as ambassador. Then, being the rector of PAGS, with impunity demolished the ventilation system of underground shelters - they spoiled the view.
      And yes - a cool dude, he liked to smear curbs with lime ...
  40. Valentine77 64
    Valentine77 64 12 January 2014 20: 11
    0
    Quote: nikcris
    Are you talking about a flying saucer, or a flat screen from Ayatskov?

    This was before him. And so I agree, he was a cool guy. And even now, God grant him health in PAGS, the rector. But with him the "Falcon" flew high
  41. Valentine77 64
    Valentine77 64 12 January 2014 20: 20
    +2
    Quote: Samsebenum
    I'm not a fatalist, but maybe stop lying to each other?

    The country has been falling apart since 1985. And finished off and finished off. And now, bit by bit, it is necessary to collect: "Don't rock the boat there - don't take it there - don't touch that one - it's my family" What to do ??? When clamped on all sides ??? This is not I.V. Stalin with L.P. Beria. We have liberalism. Let the man collect that bit by bit. what we and our fathers sold for Pepsi.
    1. alone
      alone 12 January 2014 20: 31
      +3
      Quote: Valentine77 64
      Let the man grab it bit by bit. what we and our fathers sold for Pepsi.

      what I wonder if there will be enough life for a person to collect all this bit by bit?
  42. borys
    borys 12 January 2014 20: 21
    0
    The article has outspoken blunders. But the fact remains - volumes
    production and the number of employees today in the aviation industry at times (if not in
    days) less than in the Union. In the mid-80s, industry work
    at least a million people. The main plants produced several
    thousand aircraft per year. I don’t have exact numbers, but it would be nice
    These figures are here to see and compare with today's.
  43. nov_tech.vrn
    nov_tech.vrn 12 January 2014 20: 22
    +3
    a flock on a question that literally burns, but is written in no way, and about nothing. Without deciphering a few points
    - insanely expensive loans for the manufacture of products requiring a long time of the manufacturing process;
    - chatter instead of a coherent state policy, the Prime Minister, so to speak, ruins the domestic aircraft industry with its inadequate actions, for every problem;
    - certification of air junk imported to Russia by some kind of left-wing structure, such as an interstate structure, and its head has a percentage of shares in a company actively operating air junk;
    - hysteria at every plane crash in the mass media disinformation, no one is responsible for the veracity of the information, everyone serves "fried";
    - the lack of a coherent state-controlled system for the training and retraining of flight personnel;
    Enough? Each item requires a separate serious analytical article and is far from certain that the list is final.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. sleepy
      sleepy 13 January 2014 04: 44
      +1
      Many people remember how the collapse of the domestic aircraft industry began,
      and are not going to forget.
      From lobbying to foreign airlines.

      The order of the Government of the Russian Federation of July 7, 1998 N 913-r
      "... Accept the proposal of the FAS Russia, agreed with the Ministry of Finance of Russia, the Ministry of Economy of Russia, the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation, the State Customs Committee of Russia and the State Tax Service of Russia, on complete exemption from customs duties (except for customs duties) 10 B-737 aircraft, 4 aircraft A-310 and 2 aircraft B-777, as well as engines and flight simulators ... "

      The order of the Government of the Russian Federation of December 28, 1999 N 2130-r
      "On complete exemption from customs duties (except for customs duties) for 4 B-767-300 ER aircraft and aircraft engines for them ..."

      The order of the Government of the Russian Federation of December 28, 1999 N 2131-r
      "On the extension for five years of the validity period of the Government order
      Russian Federation of December 2, 1994 N 1898-p "

      Decree of the Government of the Russian Federation of August 02, 2001 N 574
      The Government of the Russian Federation decides:
      "1. To establish that with regard to foreign aircraft imported on the basis of previously adopted decisions of the Government of the Russian Federation,
      spare parts and engines for it, as well as simulators,
      the condition of full exemption from customs duties and taxes remains ... "

      Decree of the Government of the Russian Federation of December 25, 2002 N 927
      "... about full exemption from customs duties
      (excluding customs duties) for Airbus A319 / 320/321 type aircraft (18 units) and Boeing 767 (5 units), including engines, spare parts
      and simulators for them ... "
  44. sanyabasik
    sanyabasik 12 January 2014 20: 23
    -3
    Quote: Samsebenum
    Dear, in Russia everything is really good ...
    We are losing the last position.


    Not true! At us, in Russia, everything is wonderful! And we will not hand over positions!
    (members of the cooperative "Lake", total ... signatures ..)
    1. sergeschern
      sergeschern 13 January 2014 03: 00
      0
      Delivered +, minus signers would at least look out of the window or something and not at the zombie creator, but they would rub their eyes!
  45. AlexA
    AlexA 12 January 2014 20: 28
    +4
    Quote: fzr1000
    As you can see, the volume of air transportation of passengers in Russia exceeded the peak Soviet level ... These are the facts. If someone wants to say that this is a collapse of aviation, then what should be called a lift?

    Something men clung to each other. And you just have to think.
    This article and many comments about the collapse of AIRPROM. It is sad and dangerous for many. After all, the aviation industry is a high-tech production. In it, people, of necessity, acquired high qualifications. For her, it was necessary to master serious knowledge and skills. And that means - the standard of living was qualitatively different. And also - this is a mass of HIGHLY QUALIFIED jobs in education, vocational training, materials science, precision engineering, design bureaus, basic sciences. This is not a product to be scattered on the market, not to bring coffee in countless eateries, not to wave a shovel, not to stand a column in countless security agencies. Yes, and we live in the majority - to be honest - so far in residential areas built at the aircraft industry plants (machine tool industry, tractor industry, defense industry, etc.). And now this is not. And for a long time not expected.
    Yes, we are doing many things worse than in the west. Less quality, I would say. And the USSR did less efficiently. But at least he tried to reach the stars. And in some ways it was even better than anyone in the world.
    And recently a message popped up: IL-96 production ceased. Although in terms of parameters, he (already indicated here in comments) is no worse than Boeings.
    The increase in air travel is, of course, good. Only he - especially on imported aircraft - does not drag so many qualified jobs. And because of this, the country as a whole is drawn into a peak. With danger, over time, it will inevitably and finally turn into Upper Volta. Without rockets, without planes, even without shovels. So there’s nothing to rejoice about, in general. Although I would like to.
    Well, and you, mister fzr1000, can remain calm from vigorous statistical reports. The Lord did not take anyone’s will.
  46. Valentine77 64
    Valentine77 64 12 January 2014 20: 32
    +1
    Quote: AlexA
    After all, the aviation industry is a high-tech production. In it, people, of necessity, acquired high qualifications.

    It's just not clear what the "Silicon Valley" is doing
    1. sergeschern
      sergeschern 13 January 2014 03: 04
      +2
      Previously, "rubber was pulled", but now silicone.
  47. Valentine77 64
    Valentine77 64 12 January 2014 20: 35
    +2
    Quote: lonely
    I wonder if there will be enough life for a person to collect all this bit by bit?

    Even if there is a national policy, one person is not enough. But who will come ??? That is the question.
    The system of presidential elections was invented by Western liberals in order to remove the unwanted. There has always been continuity in Russia. So that the son continues his father's work (with a good upbringing, of course, and not during the period of the arrival of German settlements in Russia). Big Dad was responsible for his people and knew that he would live with them. And then, please, 1991 passed for you and the Nobel Peace Prize and comfortable living in the west (from the word "fall down") and the best doctors in Germany
  48. arnur
    arnur 12 January 2014 20: 36
    +4
    all profuched and now we bite our elbows, we need to build up both research institutes and design bureaus; we need to restore; all fighters can build and planes too, for example, IL-96 or TU-204 are very good, I flew them and very worthy
    president flies on il-96
    1. sanyabasik
      sanyabasik 12 January 2014 20: 50
      +2
      Quote: arnur
      president flies on il-96

      not only .. he still drives Kalina laughing
  49. bubla5
    bubla5 12 January 2014 20: 41
    +2
    unable to compete with the West.
    It’s good to blame everything on competition, and the venality of the authorities and bureaucrats, kickbacks for foreign trash, for the examination of accidents, where the crew is always guilty, must answer for everything to the fullest extent possible, without repayment of the statute of limitations
  50. Samsebenaum
    Samsebenaum 12 January 2014 20: 51
    +8
    I will answer as I see and understand ...
    So many times in figures and facts it was proved, in what terms after the Second World War the USSR rose from ruins.
    Now I’m endlessly brainwashed with certain figures that the situation after the 90s is worse than after the war ...
    And the fact that our modern national leader is simply a Hero compared to Stalin and Brezhnev.
    He is a hundred times worse ...
    I just laugh at this approach. These are bikes for suckers.
    Who is writing this? Who is writing?
    But our steering is frankly weak. Weak and all. And I wanted to spit on ratings, as well as on custom articles. Go to Tver, Pskov, Smolensk, Bryansk, Oryol. area. Do not forget to taxi to Karelia, stick your nose in Altai. Siberia and the Far East, too, are sobering up the brain.
    There, people just cry with happiness. From beautiful conditions and care ...
    Need to list more?
    And in the notebook note along the way abandoned villages, collapsed factories, etc.
    A mean male tear to help you ...
    Is there a desire to live there? And this is also Russia.
    1. Barakuda
      Barakuda 12 January 2014 21: 09
      -2
      Yes, Russia, and before you whine and hysteria, did you at least do something for her beloved Russia? Without attendants, but just like that?
      1. Samsebenaum
        Samsebenaum 12 January 2014 21: 37
        +3
        Barakuda
        Are we on "you"? Why on earth?
        Dear, I will not keep a report in front of a person whom I have not seen in my eyes and also under the Ukrainian flag. You are not a Bandera, an hour?
        Understand there, otherwise it's disgusting to look like on the Maidan under the EU, bend ..
        And before Motherland-Russia, my conscience is clear. And what I am writing is from the pain that I have been experiencing from the beginning of perestroika to this day.
        And pretending not trained.
        1. Normal
          Normal 12 January 2014 22: 49
          +5
          Quote: Samsebenum
          Go to Tver, Pskov, Smolensk, Bryansk, Oryol. area.


          Greetings, Valery.

          It’s not even necessary so far from the center. 100 km from the capital and already complete opa. Weeds above the roofs of crumbling village houses if you move off the main roads. What the hell is the aviation industry?
          In the union, we provided our aviation needs INDEPENDENTLY AND FULLY, and even the solid part of the world did not leave our attention. And now we boast of the only SSJ which is ours only partially.
          1. sleepy
            sleepy 13 January 2014 04: 16
            +1
            Quote: Samsebenum

            "Go to Tverskaya, Pskov, Smolenskaya,
            Bryansk, Orel. area. "


            Yes, do not go anywhere.
            There is the Internet.

            "Abandoned objects in Russia".
            http://urban3p.ru/objects/?country_id=1

            "Abandoned objects of St. Petersburg".
            http://urban3p.ru/objects/?region_id=15
          2. sleepy
            sleepy 13 January 2014 04: 16
            0
            The blogosphere is discussing a list of closed military schools and academies,
            including the military pilot school in Barnaul.
            http://www.bankfax.ru/news/82098/
      2. Cristall
        Cristall 14 January 2014 13: 02
        0
        Quote: Barracuda
        Have you at least done something for her beloved Russia? Without attendants, but just like that?

        like that, for the call to do something for the Motherland just like that - you're Bendera ...
        the logic is just ... titanium!
        And they still fight for the title of a house of high culture and life! wink
        I remembered the Soviet posters, I remembered Kennedy - Don’t ask what the country has done for you ..
        generally Barakuda half right.
        The guys need to start from the bottom - to vote in rubles for the necessary actions (flying in the domestic for example) once a consumer society. If we buy cheaper (maid in tea) and drop a man’s tear about the past, we will not see the future.
        Threat-do not stir up ethnic hatred-motivating one only the Ukrainian flag. This trend must be radically burned! And then VO is not at all something to turn into.