Jet plane shocked West

119
How the MiG-15 made American bomber stay at airfields Aviation In Korea.

The Korean conflict continued for nearly six months by the morning of November 30 1950, when the US bomber B-29 Superfortress, which had raided the North Korean air base, was slightly damaged by a fighter that moved too fast and therefore could not identify, and the shooter bomber did not have time to fix it using the guidance system of his machine gun. Lockheed F-80 fighter jets with a rectangular wing, which accompanied the bomber, undertook a symbolic pursuit, however, having accelerated, the unidentified fighter quickly turned into a point, and then disappeared altogether.

Jet plane shocked West


The report of the bomber crew caused an organized panic in the American command chain. Although the description by the pilots of the intruding aircraft did not coincide with any of the samples used in this theater of operations, US intelligence quickly made a reasonable assumption. They said that it was a MiG-15 fighter that had risen, most likely, from an air base in Manchuria. Prior to this incident, analysts believed that Stalin had given permission only to use MiGs to protect Shanghai from the raids of Chinese nationalist bombers. This MiG was a grim omen: China’s involvement in Korea was growing, and Soviet technologies were spreading.

For the crews in the cabins of awkward “Super Fortress”, this plane, which was rapidly cutting through their structures, became a source of suffocating fear. “In my opinion, everyone was scared,” says former B-29 pilot Earl McGill, describing the noticeable lack of radio talks during the flight of his four-engine Boeing aircraft — these were the machines that ended World War II - just before the attack on Namsi airbase (Namsi), located near the border between North Korea and China. “In preparation for the first mission, we were provided with information about the interception that took place. I was so scared that day, more than ever in my life, even when I made combat missions on B-52 aircraft (in Vietnam). ” Earlier in conversations in the room for duty pilots had a lot of black humor. “The guy who instructed on the upcoming route looked like a funeral home,” adds McGill. He conducted this briefing in a special top hat, which the undertakers also wear.



One of the catastrophic days in October 1951 of the year - he was nicknamed "Black Tuesday" - MiGs shot down six of the ten "Super Fortresses". McGill's first meeting with these planes was typically short. “One of the shooters saw him. Only a small silhouette was visible, McGill recalls. “That's when I saw him ...” - the arrows opened fire on him. ” The centralized bomber firing system provided some protection against fighters, McGill stresses.

The pilot of the MiG-15 Porfiry Ovsyannikov was the target at which the arrows of the B-29 bomber were firing. “When they started shooting at us, the smoke came out, and think about it, whether the bomber was set on fire, or the smoke from machine guns?” He recalled in 2007, when historians Oleg Korytov and Konstantin Chirkin interviewed him to create an oral stories combat pilots who participated in the Second World War, as well as in the war in Korea (These interviews are posted on the website lend-lease.airforce.ru/english). Russian historians have asked Ovsyannikov to evaluate the small arms of the B-29 aircraft. His answer: "Very good." However, MiG pilots could open fire from a distance of about 700 meters, and from that distance, as McGill emphasizes, they had the opportunity to attack a group of B-29 bombers.

“Aircraft MiG-15 came as a very big surprise for us,” said Robert van der Linden, curator of the National Air and Space Museum (National Air and Space Museum). If we compare the Saber (Saber) with the North American A-86, which were urgently put into service after the appearance of the MiG-15, we can say that “the MiGs were faster, they had a better climb rate and greater firepower,” he notes. And the pilots who flew the Saber fighters knew this.



“You are absolutely right, it was humiliating,” says retired Air Force Lieutenant General Charles “Chick” Cleveland (Charles “Chick” Cleveland), recalling his first meeting with the MiG-15 fighter. He piloted the Saber in Korea in the 1952 year as part of the 334 squadron of fighter-interceptors. A few weeks before, the squadron commander, renowned ace of the Second World War, George Davis (George Andrew Davis) was killed in a battle with a Soviet fighter. (Davis was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor). At that moment, Cleveland, laying a steep turn to get away from the MiG, exceeded the parameters for dumping the Sabre and went into a tailspin for a short time - according to him, it all happened “in the midst of the air battle”. Cleveland, despite the mistake he made, was able to survive and then became an ace of the Korean War, having 5 in his account with confirmed downed MiGs, as well as two unconfirmed. Today he is president of the American Fighter Aces Association, and he still respects his opponent, whom he had to fight 60 years ago. “Oh, it was a wonderful plane,” he said by telephone from his home in Alabama. “It should be remembered that in Korea this small MiG-15 was able to successfully do what all these Focke-Wulfs and “Messerschmites” during the Second World War - he squeezed out the bomber aircraft of the United States of America from the airspace ”. From November 1951, B-29 aircraft remained on the ground during daylight hours, and combat missions took place only at night.



Inevitably, the history of the MiG-15 returns to fights with the Sabers, and this rivalry determined the outcome of the air war in Korea. However, the connection between MiGs and Sabers began during the previous war. Both of them took inspiration from the concept that arose as a result of a desperate search for weapons at the end of World War II, when the Allied air forces gained numerical superiority over the German Air Force. In a desperate situation, the Luftwaffe High Command held a competition. The winner of the “Extraordinary Fighter Competition” was a plane presented by the head of the design office of the company “Fokke-Fulf” Kurt Tank (Kurt Tank) and received the designation TA-183; it was a single-engine jet fighter model with a high T-tail. In 1945, British troops entered the Fokke-Fulf plant on Bad Ailsen and confiscated drawings, models, and data obtained during wind tunnel tests, and they immediately shared this with the Americans. And when Berlin fell, the Soviet troops engaged in the analysis of material in the German Ministry of Aviation and found there a complete set of drawings of the TA-183 aircraft, as well as invaluable data on wing tests. In less than two years and with an interval of only a few weeks, the United States of America and the Soviet Union introduced a single-engine jet aircraft with wings located at an angle of 35 degrees, with a short fuselage and a T-tail. These two aircraft were so similar to each other in Korea that the American pilots, eager to write down some MiG, mistakenly shot down several Saber aircraft.

None of these fighters was a copy of the Tank model. Primitive aerodynamic studies, as well as the limited availability of engines and the materials used at that time inevitably led to the similarity of the models being developed. The first jet aircraft developed by the Moscow-based design bureau of Mikoyan and Gurevich (MiG) was the MiG-9. The primitive MiG-9 engine — a BWM twin engine captured in Germany — was insufficient for the intended characteristics of the MiG-15, but Moscow had practically no experience creating superior samples. Instead, the MiG-15 was originally installed on the Rolls-Royce Nene engine, which was magnificent in terms of its innovativeness and thoughtlessly supplied by the British to the USSR.



Wanting to bring thaw into Anglo-Soviet relations, British Prime Minister Clement Atley (Clement Attlee) invited Soviet scientists and engineers to the Rolls-Royce plant to study how British engines are excellent in quality. In addition, Atlee offered the USSR licensed production, and this was done in response to the solemn promise to use these engines only for non-military purposes. This proposal struck the Americans, who made loud protests. And what about the Soviets? Born in Ukraine, the Soviet aviation historian Ilya Grinberg (Ilya Grinberg) believes that “Stalin himself could not believe it. He said: “Who, being in his right mind, would sell us such things?" "Greenberg, a professor of technology at the University of New York at Buffalo, stresses that the presence of Artem Mikoyan himself as a member of the delegation from the name MiG "- should have served as a warning regarding the consequences of the proposed transaction: the Rolls-Royce engines delivered in 1946 to the USSR were urgently installed on MiG-15 aircraft and successfully passed flight tests. By that time, when this fighter was ready for mass production, it was possible to solve all engineering problems associated with Rolls-Royce Nene engine technology, and as a result, a copy of it appeared under the designation Klimov RD-45. The British, according to Greenberg, complained about a violation of the license agreement, but "the Russians simply told them: listen, we made some changes, and now this can be considered our own development."

But, as in the case of copying in post-war Soviets cars from Western Europe, engines produced in the USSR were inferior in quality to the originals. The period from the beginning of the use of Klimov's engines to their failure was measured in hours. “Based on the state of the Soviet aircraft industry at the time, it was possible to assume that the quality control of MiG enterprises was lower than the level that existed in the West,” Greenberg said. Materials for parts subjected to high pressure did not meet the standards. Tolerances were insufficient. In fact, some of the problems on the MiG aircraft were related to the wings, which did not fully meet the requirements. Greenberg describes an archival photograph of an engine installation production line for the first generation of MiG-15 fighter jets. “What can I say here? - he notices in indecision. “These are not people in white overalls at high-tech production.”



However, by this time another Soviet design bureau, headed by Andrey Tupolev, had copied to the last rivet two Boeing B-29 airplanes, which had made an emergency landing on Soviet territory during World War II. Greenberg argues that the achieved production accuracy in the framework of the Tupolev project was transferred to work on the MiG program. In fact, “the B-29 copy project pulled along not only the Soviet aviation industry,” he stresses. Although MiGs continued to be inexpensive to manufacture and unnecessarily spartan, the final version of this aircraft, which rose into the air in the 1947 year, turned out to be strong and reliable.

The first wave of pilots of the F-86 fighters from the 4 air regiment included veterans of the Second World War. Obviously, they had to confront inexperienced Chinese pilots at the controls of the MiG-15, prepared by Russian experts. However, it soon became clear that quite recently graduates of flight schools were flying to the North Korean MiGs. The Saber fighter pilots called the mysterious MiG-15 pilots "honchos", which in Japanese meant "bosses." Today we know that in the cabins of most of the North Korean MiGs were hardened pilots of the Soviet air force.

Chick Cleveland describes meeting with MiG pilots whose skills involved not just training in classrooms. Cleveland was approaching the Amnokkan River at an altitude of about 12 000 meters, when a MiG flying at great speed appeared in front of it. The speed of both aircraft was close to the Mach number, when they flew next to each other. "I said to myself: These are no longer teachings, now everything is for real." Using the advantage of "Sabre" in speed and in the turning radius, he used the acceleration and was in the tail of the MiG. "I came very close to him, and it seemed that he was sitting next to me in the living room."

Remembering at this moment about the stories of pilots from the Second World War, who forgot to press the trigger at the height of the air battle, Cleveland looked down for a moment to check the position of the toggle switches on his Saybre. “When I looked up again, this MiG was no longer in front of me.” Cleveland looked ahead and back “and around itself across the horizon” - nothing. There was only one chilling opportunity. "I slightly turned my F-86, and he, of course, was right under me." It was a deft attempt to swap roles, made by the pilot of the MiG, who sharply limited the supply of fuel and, having dropped the speed, was at the bottom, and then behind the enemy sitting on his tail. “I gradually became a fox, and he turned into a dog,” says Cleveland, laughing. However, after several maneuvers, the Sabre regained its position and again found itself on the tail of a Soviet pilot, who was forced to resort to "the classic MiG tactics" - he began to sharply gain altitude. Cleveland fired several bursts on the engine and fuselage of the MiG, after which it slowly shifted to the left, made a dive down and went towards the ground. Given the characteristics of the MiG, a dive at high speed indicated a crash, not an exit strategy.

Due to the fact that MiGs questioned the superiority of the United States in the air, the Americans tried by all means to get Soviet technology at their disposal, but they managed to get the MiG-15 capable of flying only in September 1953 of the year when North Korean pilot defector But Gym Sok (No Kum-Sok) landed his fighter at Kimpo airbase (Kimpo) in South Korea. Flights on the Korean MiG should have clearly demonstrated what machines the American pilots had to deal with. To evaluate the Soviet fighter, the best pilots of the United States Air Force - Captain Harold Collins (Harold "Tom" Collins), from the test division of Field Wright airbase and Major Charles Yeger (Charles "Chuck" Yeagger) were sent to Kadena airbase (Kadena) in Japan. 29 September 1953, the first Western pilot took to the air in a mysterious MiG. This flight confirmed the expected great qualities, but also showed less pleasant characteristics of the MiG-15. “The defector pilot told me that the MiG-15 has a tendency to stall when it accelerates even one G, and also breaks into a corkscrew, which it often cannot get out of,” Collins noted in 1991, giving an interview for a collection of memoirs "Test flights at Old Wright Field". “A white stripe was drawn on the front panel, which was used to center the steering knob when trying to exit a corkscrew. He said that before his eyes his instructor went into a tailspin and then died. ”

Test flights showed that the speed of the MiG-15 did not exceed Mach 0,92. In addition, the aircraft control system was inefficient when diving down and performing sharp maneuvers. During the air battles in Korea, the American pilots watched as the MiG-15 fighters approached their limits, after which they unexpectedly fell at a high speed into a spin and collapsed, often losing wings or tail.

The Soviet pilots also knew the characteristics of the Sabers as American pilots - the capabilities of the MiGs. “You will not force me to attack them at the maximum turning speed,” said Soviet MiG-15 pilot Vladimir Zabelin in one of his oral presentations translated in 2007, “In that case, he could easily be on my tail. When I entered them in the tail, they knew that they could leave me only as a result of horizontal maneuvers ... I usually attacked them from behind and a little lower ... When he started the maneuver, I tried to intercept him. If I didn't knock him down during the first third of the turn, I had to stop the attack and leave. ”

In 1962, the Finnish Air Force purchased the MiG-21 aircraft from the Soviet Union, and also received four MiG-15 training aircraft so that their pilots could familiarize themselves with the exotic characteristics of the MiG cockpit. Retired test pilot Colonel Jyrki Laukkanen concluded that the MiG-15 was a well-controlled and maneuverable aircraft “provided that you knew its limitations and did not go beyond safe piloting. In fact, you needed to keep the speed not higher than 0,9 Mach and not lower than 126 nodes (186 kilometers per hour); otherwise, control began to get lost. ” Landing could be difficult due to manually-inflated pneumatic brakes that quickly lost their effectiveness. “If they warmed up, then you had no other options for control or braking, except to turn off the engine and observe where you ended up — usually everything ended up on the grass.”

Laukkanen believes that there were certain oddities in the cockpit of the MiG-15. "The artificial horizon of the MiG-15 was unusual." The upper part of this device, representing the sky, was brown, while the lower part indicated, as a rule, the earth and was blue. This device was made in such a way that when lifting the symbol of the aircraft dropped down. “It worked as if it were assembled upside down,” Laukkanen wonders. “But that was not the case.” The fuel gauge on the MiG-15 also, in his opinion, was “particularly unreliable,” so the Finnish pilots learned how to determine the amount of fuel using a clock. Being the main test pilot, Laukkanen flew more than 1 200 hours on a delta-winged MiG-21 aircraft. (He was also the only Finn to fly alone on the P-51 Mustang.) “In my opinion, the MiG-15 had no special mysticism,” he says. - My favorite aircraft, which I unfortunately could not fly, was the F-86 Saber.

A more objective indicator of the relative strength of MiG and Saber fighters is the number of enemy aircraft shot down, but this kind of loss ratio is difficult to obtain. So, for example, at the end of the Korean War, Chick Cleveland had in his account four downed MiGs, two supposedly downed and four damaged MiGs. “And when was the last time he saw the MiG in a deadly high-speed dive down?” My follower and I pursued him during a speed descent and an attempt to hide in the clouds at an altitude of about 700 meters. I was sure that he could not do it. But we did not see the ejection or collision of an airplane with the ground, and therefore it was counted as supposed. ” After a thorough research done by another Saber pilot after half a century, his “probable” MiG was eventually replaced by a confirmed shot down by the Air Force’s Correction of Military Records Commission. In the 2008 year, he was lately called an ace.

The Soviet method of confirming the results, according to Porfiry Ovsyannikov, was not particularly accurate. “We made attacks, returned home, landed, and I gave a report,” he said. - We participated in a dogfight! I attacked B-29. And it's all. In addition, the enemy spoke openly about this and reported the data on the radio: “In such and such a place, our bombers were attacked by MiG fighters. As a result, one of our aircraft fell into the sea. The second one was damaged and crashed while landing on Okinawa. ” Then there was a film from a camera mounted on a gun, and we studied it. It showed that I opened fire from close range. As for the other pilots, some did it and some did not. They believed me, that's all. ”



Immediately after the war, the data on the superiority of the Sabre were greatly exaggerated. 792 downed MIGs were reported, while the United States Air Force acknowledged the loss of only 58 Sabre. The Soviets, for their part, recognized the loss of about 350 MiGs, but they claimed that they had shot down an incredibly large number of F-86-640 aircraft, which made up the majority of this type of fighter in Korea. “I can only say that Russians are terrible liars,” said the Saber pilot Cleveland. “At least in this case.”

In 1970, the United States Air Force conducted a study codenamed "Saber Measures Charlie", and the number of casualties in the air battles involving the MiGs was increased to 92 - as a result, the loss ratio of the F-86 was seven to one. After the collapse of the USSR, archives of the Soviet air force became accessible to scientists, and as a result, the loss of Soviet MiG fighters in Korea was set at the level of 315 machines.

If we restrict statistics to a certain period, we can draw important conclusions. Retired Air Force Colonel Doug Dildy notes that when piloting the MiG-15 with Chinese, Korean and newly arrived Soviet pilots, statistics actually indicate a loss ratio of nine to one in favor of the Sabre. But if we take the statistics of the 1951 fights of the year, when the Americans were opposed by Soviet pilots who fought against the Luftwaffe during the Great Patriotic War, the loss ratio is almost completely equalized - 1,4 to 1, that is, only slightly in favor of the Sabre.

Data on the Korean air war show support for this interpretation. When the honchos returned to the Soviet Union, the less experienced Soviet pilots who arrived to replace them could no longer compete on an equal footing with the F-86 pilots. The Chinese lost a quarter of the aircraft from the first generation of MiGs in aerial combat with an upgraded version of Sabre, which caused Mao Zedong to suspend MiG flights for a month. The Chinese received modernized MiG-15bis fighters in the summer of 1953, but at that time it was already planned to sign a cease-fire agreement. MiG-15 aircraft were soon replaced by MiG-17, in which the necessary improvements were made - mainly due to the cloning of technologies from two captured F-86 Saber fighter jets.

By the spring of 1953, Soviet pilots remaining in Korea began to avoid collisions with American aircraft. Stalin died at that time, a truce in Panmunjom seemed inevitable, and no one wanted to be the last victim of the war. Ilya Greenberg summarizes the opinions of people who visited the cockpit of this good fighter: “The Soviet pilots at the helm of Mig-15 viewed air battles in Korea simply as work that had to be done. Ultimately, they did not defend their homeland there. They considered Americans as opponents, but not enemies. ”

While the outstanding aircraft of the Mikoyan-Gurevich design bureau was making a name for itself in the West, Soviet citizens had almost no idea what this name meant. The F-86 "Saber" became the symbol of American air superiority in the pop culture of 1950-s - it was included in the film scripts, got on the covers of magazines, as well as stencils of metal boxes for school lunches. However, in those years, the MiG-15 fighter remained a mystery to the Soviet public. “We didn’t even understand what the name meant, and we learned this much later than you think,” notes Greenberg. “You can see the image of the MiG-15 in any Russian aviation magazine, but the signature will always be like this: a modern jet fighter”.

In the middle of the 1960-s, a policy change that was inexplicable and typical of the Soviet bureaucracy took place, and this fighter, deprived of secrecy, found itself in public parks. “I remember very well when the MiG-15 was set up in our district park,” says Greenberg. The plane was not put on a pedestal and was not part of a monument, as is often done now, but it was simply driven into the park and brake pads were placed under the wheels. “I remember very well how excited I was when I saw this MiG for the first time. We children climbed on him, admired his cabin and all its instruments. ”

And a decade earlier, among the pilots of the air forces of the Warsaw Pact countries, as well as some countries in Africa and the Middle East, information about the success of the MiG-15 in Korea gradually began to spread. Ultimately, this fighter was used by the air forces of 35 countries.
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  1. +28
    10 January 2014 09: 25
    Mikoyan and Gurevich at all times in Russian history ...
    1. +12
      10 January 2014 09: 33
      Ingenious designers.
      1. +23
        10 January 2014 09: 44
        Quote: klimpopov
        Ingenious designers.

        Come on, all Mikoyan's "genius" was in his relationship with Anastas Mikoyan, who allowed him to take away his development of a fighter with a team of designers and equipment from Polikarpov. By the way, Mikhail Iosifivich Gurevich worked with Polikarpov on the topic of a high-altitude fighter with an I-200 liquid-cooled engine until Mikoyan pocketed it ...
        1. +7
          10 January 2014 09: 48
          Paraphrase. Brilliant leaders ...
        2. +16
          10 January 2014 10: 08
          Quote: Nayhas
          Come on, all Mikoyan's "genius" was in his relationship with Anastas Mikoyan, who allowed him to take his fighter development from Polikarpov


          It was. He is rather a good organizer than a constructor. He was a representative of military acceptance at the factory number 1 named. Aviahima. The NNPolikarpov Design Bureau was located at this plant and the plant was engaged in the production of the I-153 Chaika fighter. First, Mikoyan was engaged in the acceptance of aircraft, and then was appointed representative of the customer (Air Force) at the Polikarpov Design Bureau. There he pocketed the future MiG-1 Polikarpovsky, while the main one was in Germany.

          But I repeat, Koshkin was also not the inventor of the T-34, however, it was created under his leadership and if it weren’t for him and his tank’s solution there simply could not have been. As is the case with Mikoyan. But Gurevich talent, he was the chief designer of KB
          1. +3
            10 January 2014 16: 55
            Quote: Vadivak
            But I repeat, Koshkin was also not the inventor of the T-34, but it was created under his leadership and if it hadn’t been for his tank solution, it simply could have not existed.

            Well, it's hard to compare. Koshkin, of course, is not a constructor, he is a commissioner, his promotion to the top is rather dark, at first he became deputy, then after a while the boss was arrested, and he took his place and so on everywhere. But he had the talent to push the product, which in Soviet times was valued more than design ability, for example, Polikarpov was not strong in this, and therefore lost everything in spite of his genius. Without Koshkin T-34 in 1941. would not be, it is a fact. Mikoyan against his background is only a loud surname and a high patron ...
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. +10
          10 January 2014 10: 34
          Kinship is kinship, but you should not discount Artyom Ivanovich's personal organizational skills and the ability to choose the right direction. That is why their "tandem" with the undoubtedly talented MI Gurevich was able to achieve truly outstanding achievements. The MiG-25 alone is worth something. Although, of course, I myself have heard from older employees of the company that the name - GUM - would be more correct lol but still MiG is more beautiful good .
          1. +4
            10 January 2014 13: 30
            Quote: aviator65
            Only one MiG-25 which only costs.


            Gurevich plane.
            1. +2
              10 January 2014 14: 41
              And nobody argues with this. drinks
          2. +5
            10 January 2014 17: 31
            Well, this is a family one, Anastas Ivanovich was also a good organizer, which did not prevent him from being insidious and unprincipled. The death of Chkalov served Artem Ivanovich a "good" service, the competitor was simply eaten, including Yakovlev. Polikarpov was not acquitted and his conviction was not removed, and there was not even a conviction, but a death sentence, so that it is clear that the forces were unequal. Maybe it would have been possible to put Polikarpov, but Stalin didn’t let him, he said that the U-2 was a good plane, it brought a lot of benefit to the country and was left behind, but they didn’t let work and the projects of the country's potentially strongest fighters did not go into series.
          3. vtur
            +1
            11 January 2014 10: 14
            Quote: aviator65
            kinship by kinship, but do not discount Artyom Ivanovich’s personal organizational abilities and ability to choose the right direction.
            .
            It would not hurt to remember what Artem Ivanovich did with his design bureau from 1941 to 1945 ...
            DIS-200? Combined SU aircraft?
            And after the MiG-9, Mikoyan, in fact, became the "king of fighters", seizing the leadership (Yakovlev fell into disgrace, and Lavochkin was reprofiled), leaving Sukhoi on the sidelines for many years ...
            1. 0
              11 January 2014 12: 51
              Experimented. Which allowed us to break ahead and seize leadership.
            2. +4
              11 January 2014 15: 37
              Quote: vtur
              It would not hurt to remember what Artem Ivanovich did with his design bureau from 1941 to 1945 ...

              I publish in the reverse order from 45 to 41
              MiG-13 with pvrd aka I-250 flew at 45. In 1946, 8 aircraft were built

              MiG-9 poured Polikarpovsky I-185 built 5

              DIS-200 MiG-5 (also a copy of Polikarpovsky TIS) built 2
              1. +1
                11 January 2014 17: 09
                I-224 (4A) - high-altitude interceptor fighter with a pressurized cabin, AM-39FB engine and TK-300B turbocharger. The first flight of the I-224 took place on September 16, 1944. Development of the I 221-223 machines. Even outwardly it looks more "advanced" among "fighting" compatriots (IMHO)

                And look what Yakovlev, for example, for the same period, is everything for the front, not before experiments - Yak 7, Yak-9, Yak-3.

                Again, Shavrova read in childhood and forgot a lot, but did not find it in the Internet ... But no one else had such a range of prototypes.

                aviator65 everything is perfectly painted below.
              2. 0
                11 January 2014 18: 41
                A little clarification. The MiG-9 shown here is just an experiment to install the ASh-3 engine on the MiG-82. After the success of La-5, almost all of our design bureaus carried out such work in a directive manner. Even Ilyushin did the same with the Il-2. But this did not develop. No "spitting" I-185 can be seen there. I advise you to familiarize yourself with the drawings or at least the projections of these machines.
                DIS-200 MiG-5 (also a copy of Polikarpovsky TIS) built 2
                And I-200, aka MiG-1/3, a copy of what? How can one consider machines created from the backlogs of Polikarpovsky's design bureaus to be copies of Polykarpovsky machines? The fact that all this was inherited by A. I. Mikoyan has not been disputed by anyone for a long time
                1. +2
                  11 January 2014 20: 47
                  Quote: aviator65
                  No "spitting" I-185 can be seen there.


                  Study the topic and see that the I-200 is the same I-180 with an AM-37 engine, in addition to the I-200, Polikarpov also had another similar airplane

                  I-173 and then I-174 - ITP
                  (heavy cannon fighter) with AM-37P or M-105P.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. 0
                    11 January 2014 23: 10
                    I am quite familiar with this topic.
                    Do you want to prove something?
                    To begin with, compare the I-180 and I-173/174: the same plane is direct, only the motors are different. Yes You have a strange idea of ​​similarity.
                    Everything that you posted here is nothing more than the evolution of I-16. No one is going to belittle Polikarpov's genius. All these machines are the embodiment of his fighter concept. The fact that Mikoyan and Gurevich used his ideas and best practices speaks only of continuity. Do not confuse the concept of similarity and copying. Children of one parent will always have common features.
                    1. +2
                      12 January 2014 10: 08
                      Quote: aviator65
                      Everything that you posted here is nothing more than the evolution of I-16.


                      Here it is. Then based on your logic I-16


                      this is the evolution of I-15, only without the upper wing
                      And I-15 is the evolution of I-5

                      Directly related to monkey relative Darwin
                      1. 0
                        12 January 2014 11: 53
                        Do you think there is a desire to argue with you? hi
                      2. +1
                        12 January 2014 12: 09
                        Quote: aviator65
                        Do you think there is a desire to argue with you?


                        I believe that no longer. hi
                2. 0
                  17 January 2014 06: 05
                  it was more correct to say they communized when Polikarpov fell into disgrace, a very ugly story
            3. +3
              11 January 2014 16: 14
              It was the ability during the war to engage in experimental work, in particular high-altitude fighters, that allowed Mikoyan’s design bureau to make a real breakthrough in the creation of jet technology immediately after its completion. It is worth recalling that the MiG-1946 created in 9 was a fundamentally new aircraft with characteristics that made it possible to consider it a full-fledged jet fighter. In contrast, the Yak-15, which appeared at the same time, was only a well-deserved Yak-3, converted for the installation of a jet engine. And this was quite natural, since during the war Yakovlev Design Bureau, like Lavochkin Design Bureau, were busy to the point of constantly bringing to mind their fighters delivered to the front. Therefore, they could not have any serious groundwork for the transition to jet technology.
              As for the Sukhoi Design Bureau, during the war it was also actually in the "reserve" and created quite a lot of experimental designs, and in 1947 it issued a twin-engine Su-9 jet fighter (not to be confused with the interceptor of the same name) on the mountain, which was also declared a plagiarism for the external similarity with the Me-262. But the MiG-15 turned out to be a more promising machine and the stake was placed on it. By the way, at the same time Lavochkin presented his La-15, an aircraft that was quite successful and surpassed the MiG-15 in some parameters. It was even built in a limited series, but it turned out to be more technologically complex than the Mikoyan car, and this decided its fate.
              I do not agree with the statement about the disgrace of Yakovlev and even more so about the supporting roles of Sukhoi. You just need to consider the situation in the context of the time when this all happened. And the time was like this: the war was just over, half the country was in ruins, and it was necessary to restore the economy, to create jet aircraft, to engage in missile technology, and even to implement a nuclear project. There was little time, funds and resources too. Therefore, the bet was placed on those design bureaus that could quickly give the desired result. And Mikoyan and Gurevich did it. After some time, the work of Yakovlev, Lavochkin and Sukhoi were also in demand. The same design bureau of P.O. Sukhoi after its restoration firmly occupied its niche and was not inferior in achievements to its colleagues from the design bureau A.I. Mikoyan. A certain specialization of these groups has developed, therefore, it cannot be said that someone was on the sidelines.
    2. +14
      10 January 2014 10: 57
      And their ingenious teacher
  2. +1
    10 January 2014 09: 36
    The title is just like from a neighboring banner, I just didn’t even immediately understand that this is an article and not another link laughing
  3. makarov
    +15
    10 January 2014 09: 52
    even a little bit interested in the history of the war in Korea, it is known how the MiG-15 was let out by the Americans ..
    1. Vovka levka
      -12
      10 January 2014 10: 36
      Quote: makarov
      even a little bit interested in the history of the war in Korea, it is known how the MiG-15 was let out by the Americans ..

      Well, yes, just why did the North Koreans climb into the tunnels?
      1. makarov
        +3
        10 January 2014 12: 37
        Well, of course, for comfort and coolness. laughing
        1. Vovka levka
          -7
          10 January 2014 13: 06
          Quote: makarov
          Well, of course, for comfort and coolness. laughing

          Have you tried to stay in the tunnels for a bit?
      2. +31
        10 January 2014 14: 35
        Hello, who is bursting about tunnels here, What ignorance and complete ignorance of history so close that you can easily imagine what you know about the period 1939-1945, the emergence of new aircraft from the north was a very strong surprise for the UN wax which was based on the Yankees, a huge landing landed near Seoul and rattled with motors quickly moved north, Possessing a colossal advantage over a weakly armed enemy, the Yankees organized 41g on an even larger scale, Within a few days all the aircraft were completely destroyed and she was a rotor-motor Yankis modestly silent and the destruction counted, the Korean Army was not it’s simply defeated and destroyed by massive use of heavy weapons, and the aircraft reigned all the way to the border with China, MacArthur was waiting for the president’s permission to start military operations in northern China, he was 100 percent sure that the councils didn’t fit in, they restored what was destroyed, Pyongyang was almost taken the yankees pulled themselves up and grouped their howls ska to throw to China, Now that the documents are published, we know that a few days separated us from the big war, It was then that the Chinese made decisions to help the Koreans and ours to cover the Chinese troops with aviation, the largest Yankee raid was clouded by numerous smoke from the wrecked cars, plus and the group of troops in the north received a good lesson, the Yankees began to dare and not weakly, Now the Yankees are modestly silent and then the downed live pilots said to hear the MIG gun’s turn, they were krants, the Cannon was unique at that time, the Yankees spent a lot of money to create something like that, Such a sad story, Yes, and with the beginning of the war, not everything is smooth though they accuse the northerners but no one was able to answer how it turned out that a weak, poorly armed, not numerous army was able to break up a larger one, they are still silent and why it was not found in the barracks ,
        1. +3
          10 January 2014 22: 38
          Quote: igor.borov775
          Hi, who's cracking about the tunnels, K


          What was it was. Americans are afraid to enter the tunnel in September 1950. The entrance to the tunnel is covered by a machine gunner and an infantryman.
          1. Alex 241
            +1
            10 January 2014 22: 46
            Skydivers jump out of a military transport aircraft C-119
      3. +6
        10 January 2014 19: 03
        Quote: Vovka Levka
        Quote: makarov
        even a little bit interested in the history of the war in Korea, it is known how the MiG-15 was let out by the Americans ..

        Well, yes, just why did the North Koreans climb into the tunnels?

        The Americans fought not by skill but by number. Read Abakumov's memoirs "View from the cockpit of a MIG." ..
        1. Vovka levka
          -1
          10 January 2014 19: 41
          Quote: morpex
          Quote: Vovka Levka
          Quote: makarov
          even a little bit interested in the history of the war in Korea, it is known how the MiG-15 was let out by the Americans ..

          Well, yes, just why did the North Koreans climb into the tunnels?

          The Americans fought not by skill but by number. Read Abakumov's memoirs "View from the cockpit of a MIG." ..

          Memories and documents are different. Everything must be read, and only then certain conclusions must be drawn. And cap-hatred leads to trouble, at least so when it was taught.
          Our pilots did everything possible and impossible, but not everything was smooth, as some ur patriots boast here.
          1. +1
            10 January 2014 20: 57
            Quote: Vovka Levka
            Memories and documents are different. Everything must be read, and only then certain conclusions must be drawn. And cap-hatred leads to trouble, at least so when it was taught.
            Our pilots did everything possible and impossible, but not everything was smooth, as some ur patriots boast here.

            And I, what against? Honor and praise to our aces! But I'm talking about the plane itself! At that time he was the best in his class. And in terms of armament and maneuverability. At a speed of one to one. On the radar is better.
            They, too, were in good order. D. McConnell flunked 16 MIGs.
            By the way, our Pepelyaev has 23 victories.
            1. Vovka levka
              0
              10 January 2014 21: 29
              Quote: morpex

              On the radar is better.

              Is radar better?
              Please explain if I don’t know something. Personally, I am very interested.
              1. +2
                10 January 2014 21: 56
                Quote: Vovka Levka
                Is radar better?
                Please explain if I don’t know something.

                Radar????

                Instrumentation MiG-15 bis

                The flight-navigation group of instruments includes a speed indicator KUS-1200, an altimeter VD-15 or VD-17, a low-altitude radio altimeter RV-2, a horizon AGI-1 or AGK-47B, a slip indicator IUP-46, variometer VLR-75, DGMK-3 remote gyromagnetic compass, M-0.95 Mach number indicator, ARK-5 radio compass.

                The radio equipment includes an OSP-48 approach system (it absorbs information from the ARK-5 radio compass, the RV-2 altimeter, the MRP-48 marker receiver), the SRO-1 state recognition transponder, and the RSIU-ZM radio transceiver.

                An ASP-ZN sight is mounted in the upper part of the dashboard, the PBP-1B optical sight is used for aiming bombing and launching unguided missiles, the S-13 photo-machine gun is mounted on the aircraft to record the results of an air target attack. Film machine gun film contains 150 frames. The shooting speed is 8 frames per minute.
                1. Alex 241
                  +3
                  10 January 2014 21: 59
                  In color, the link can be viewed at http://album.reality.hu/tag/cockpit-panorama/
                2. +2
                  11 January 2014 10: 21
                  Quote: Vovka Levka
                  Is radar better?
                  Please explain if I don’t know something. Personally, I am very interested.


                  Quote: Vadivak
                  Radar????


                  Among the other factors that helped the southern coalition maintain parity in the air was a successful radar system (because of which MiGs began to install the world's first radar warning systems developed by the Soviet single inventor V. Matskevich, who learned about the heavy losses of the Soviet pilot in the Korean War due to the use of active F-86 "Saber" active radio range finders, which can detect the target much earlier (2,5 km versus 150 m within sight). F-86, proposed a passive radar scheme with acoustic signaling, detecting the enemy’s active radar over 10 km.
                  1. Vovka levka
                    +1
                    11 January 2014 15: 46
                    Quote: morpex

                    Among the other factors that helped the southern coalition maintain parity in the air was a successful radar system (because of which MiGs began to install the world's first radar warning systems developed by the Soviet single inventor V. Matskevich, who learned about the heavy losses of the Soviet pilot in the Korean War due to the use of active F-86 "Saber" active radio range finders, which can detect the target much earlier (2,5 km versus 150 m within sight). F-86, proposed a passive radar scheme with acoustic signaling, detecting the enemy’s active radar over 10 km.

                    Well yes, but it's not a radar. Do not confuse the sinful with the righteous. Good luck to you.
                  2. +2
                    11 January 2014 16: 20
                    Quote: morpex
                    Having studied the captured trophy F-86, he proposed a passive radar circuit with acoustic signaling that detects an enemy’s active radar for 10 km.


                    As a radio engineer, radio engineering.

                    The radio rangefinder was not a locator, but the "Sirena" was triggered by the usual sparking of the buzzer. And if it was triggered by irradiation with a rangefinder, this does not mean that the target can be detected with this rangefinder. This is not what it is intended for.

                    In the fall of 1952, a dozen and a half sets of Sirena SPO were installed on Migas 133 and 216 IADs. It's all. Mass installation began after the Korean War. And already on the MiG-17 "Sirena-2"
                    1. +1
                      12 January 2014 00: 03
                      Quote: Vadivak
                      As a radio engineer, radio engineering.

                      Thanks for the help. I saw it myself on the MIG-17. I just had info that from the beginning of 1953 on all 15 MIGs (exactly those that took part in the hostilities) they began to put the modified "Siren" because its original copy was easily blown from the slightest interference in a humid atmosphere. The problem was solved by pouring rice resin on the radar sensors.
                      Well, you yourself know about this no worse than me. Of course, these are not modern radars, but at that time it was just a radar. By the way, there is an opinion that it was because of this that the threat of the Third World War was eliminated. I don’t know if this version is true or just a beautiful legend, but it’s obvious that they played a crucial role in the air war in Korea ..
                      1. +3
                        12 January 2014 10: 32
                        Quote: morpex
                        but at that time it was precisely the radar.


                        All the same, I do not agree. These are early radars, the American P-38M Lightning night fighter equipped with radar


                        Here is the Blenheim Blenheim radar (Modification of the Mk IF of 54 OTU (operating traning unit, squadron code YX). The aircraft in the photo has serial number K7159 and is equipped with the radar A. Mk IV.


                        And this is the radar. German night fighter Bf.110G equipped with the Liechtenstein radar

                        but what we are talking about is rather a sensor because it does not use the method of radiation of radio waves
                      2. Vovka levka
                        0
                        12 January 2014 18: 45
                        Quote: Vadivak

                        All the same, I do not agree.

                        There is a category of people who are almost impossible to prove something. In vain you are trying, although you have a clear position and thank you very much for that.
                        People like illusions, so what to do about it.
            2. +7
              11 January 2014 14: 43
              Look how hooked, but unfortunately a lot of things are what you want, Unfortunately the Yankees (planes) at that time were equipped an order of magnitude higher, Nobody hid this, on the contrary, all the efforts of our designers were aimed at at least neutralizing the capabilities that American machines possessed, Our industry could not yet achieve what the Yankees could, And they wrote about the radar in vain it was necessary to listen to and read the memories of people who actively participated in those battles, There were many complaints made by pilots that participated in those battles, In our country there was peace and trained pilots died in battles because of the machine’s perfection, Scientists and designers were closely involved in the comments of the pilots, I read the pilots' memories then it was not memories but reports on the operation of new equipment or the unit, now they just don’t know what then went into serial production was checked there , Modification but simply a new car in this building was paid for by the blood of our pilots, the car arrived at the end of 1952 about a completely different one, although recognizable in silhouette, And it was already in no way inferior in its combat characteristics, surpassed the American strategic aviation escort combat aircraft, Now almost no one stutters what type of ooze was in the first MIG aircraft with the climate there and if not you know read, the Yankees encountered it in the war with Japan and found a solution, and we encountered this problem immediately at the beginning of hostilities, I pay tribute to the courage of our troops of all military branches, The experience that was gained at a high price became the basis for creating new systems weapons with completely different characteristics, Read the memories of designers and scientists of that distant time, Respectfully everyone who participated in the discussion of this now completely forgotten war, We must remember one thing that our military showed the Yankees that we just can’t take it, and we can stand up for yourself, Now of course you can spit on everything that our ancestors did, but life stubbornly proves who will destroy his story sprinkle ash on your head and bitterly regret it,
              1. Vovka levka
                +2
                11 January 2014 15: 43
                Quote: igor.borov775
                Look how hooked, but unfortunately a lot of things are what you want, Unfortunately the Yankees (planes) at that time were equipped an order of magnitude higher, Nobody hid this, on the contrary, all the efforts of our designers were aimed at at least neutralizing the capabilities that American machines possessed, Our industry could not yet achieve what the Yankees could, And they wrote about the radar in vain it was necessary to listen to and read the memories of people who actively participated in those battles, There were many complaints made by pilots that participated in those battles, In our country there was peace and trained pilots died in battles because of the machine’s perfection, Scientists and designers were closely involved in the comments of the pilots, I read the pilots' memories then it was not memories but reports on the operation of new equipment or the unit, now they just don’t know what then went into serial production was checked there , Modification but simply a new car in this building was paid for by the blood of our pilots, the car arrived at the end of 1952 about a completely different one, although recognizable in silhouette, And it was already in no way inferior in its combat characteristics, surpassed the American strategic aviation escort combat aircraft, Now almost no one stutters what type of ooze was in the first MIG aircraft with the climate there and if not you know read, the Yankees encountered it in the war with Japan and found a solution, and we encountered this problem immediately at the beginning of hostilities, I pay tribute to the courage of our troops of all military branches, The experience that was gained at a high price became the basis for creating new systems weapons with completely different characteristics, Read the memories of designers and scientists of that distant time, Respectfully everyone who participated in the discussion of this now completely forgotten war, We must remember one thing that our military showed the Yankees that we just can’t take it, and we can stand up for yourself, Now of course you can spit on everything that our ancestors did, but life stubbornly proves who will destroy his story sprinkle ash on your head and bitterly regret it,

                All right, in the case. An excellent analysis of the situation, but how do you read some and think, am I really blind, deaf and stupid.
                1. 0
                  16 January 2014 18: 27
                  Hi, I specially drew the attention of everyone on the cannon and it was ignored, All the downed pilots alive were talking about the MIGS weapons precisely about that. They began to be afraid of getting hit by the MIGA, you just didn’t pay attention and the Yankees panicked not in KOREA but in WASHINGTON, MIGA put an end to all plans that so persistently and for a long time prepared WASHINGTON, this is the most important
          2. xan
            0
            10 January 2014 21: 03
            Quote: Vovka Levka
            Memories and documents are different. Everything must be read, and only then certain conclusions must be drawn. And cap-hatred leads to trouble, at least so when it was taught.
            Our pilots did everything possible and impossible, but not everything was smooth, as some ur patriots boast here.

            Thanks for the fresh thoughts!
            1. Vovka levka
              -1
              10 January 2014 21: 30
              [quote = xan] [/ quote]
              Thanks for the fresh thoughts! [/ Quote]
              You're welcome.
      4. +1
        16 January 2014 18: 15
        Hello, it’s very simple, the Germans Pilots fought with the skill of their PIECES (Junkers) hung over our troops and targeted air strikes inflicted great damage to our troops, the Yankis didn’t suffer such accuracy, They used the experience tested by the war or forgot, They had their skate Rugged bombing the memories of our veterans of that war brought a terrible effect, They just completely destroyed the square of the territory where they were in danger, They did not care what the settlement is in this square or something else, The main thing was that the effect was terrible, And they succeeded in this, you even you can’t imagine what our pilots and other specialists felt, the Yankis completely outdid the Germans in using aviation, and this horror had to be stopped, I bow my head before the feat of our ancestors who in difficult conditions could not only stop but punish these villains and bandits, Low bow to them
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +10
      10 January 2014 21: 36
      According to Soviet data, the pilots of the 64 corps made 64000 sorties and in 1182 air battles shot down 1106 UN planes (November 1950-December 1951 - shot down 564 aircraft, lost - 71. 1952 were shot down in 394, losses were 172 cars In 1953 the enemy lost - 139, 64 Corps - 92). Their losses were 335 MiGs and 120 pilots. A total of 1525 enemy aircraft were shot down. OVA fighters (Chinese and Koreans) held 366 battles in which they destroyed 271 enemy aircraft, losing 231 their car and 126 pilots.
      The overall result of the air war in Korea between the USSR and the USA is expressed by the score 3,4 against 1. Our pilots counted 1.097 victories (own losses: 319 planes / 110 pilots). The regiment in which Lev Schukin fought lost 18 combat vehicles (of which 15 - irretrievably); shooting down an 101 American plane. Losses 1 to 5,6. Killed 8 pilots, of which only 2 in battle, the rest - when trying to land damaged aircraft.
      The total number of destroyed enemy aircraft in the sky of Korea, together with ground-based anti-aircraft units of the USSR (687) air defense, China and Korea, amounted to 2805 aircraft. If we add to it the victories in air battles and the victories destroyed at the airfields of South Korea by the pilots of the DPRK and the PRC on piston planes, the total number of enemy planes destroyed during the war will reach 2900.
      The Americans admitted that they lost more than 2.000 aircraft, but they attributed 55% of them to non-combat losses. If, for example, a plane shot down in battle crashes into the sea - this is a “non-combat" loss. If the wing of a V-29 shell riddled with shells for 5 km fell off a strip, this is also a “non-combat” loss, even more “obvious non-combat” - if the plane went missing. Artful arithmetic allowed them to trumpet the whole world about a "victory" in the air ...
      According to it, 954 Soviet, Chinese and North Korean aircraft were shot down, incl. 827 MiG-15. The US Air Force lost 138 aircraft. The Navy and the Marines also announced the loss of five vehicles. The Americans recorded their victories only by a photo-machine gun (FKP), tk. the situation in Korea did not allow receiving confirmation from the ground. This method, according to the Hero of the Soviet Union K.V. Sukhova, was about 75% effective. Although the testimonies of other pilots were additionally taken into account, the statistics of the US Air Force remained far from sinless. For example, the Americans said that in the battle on April 3, they destroyed 4 MiG-15s. In fact, that day one was shot down and 3 fighters of the 176th GIAP were damaged. And this is not an isolated fact. There are fewer known cases of MiG losses than the Pentagon announced. The Americans could partly “blame anti-aircraft gunners” for their aircraft shot down in air battles, partly as missing or as lost due to unexplained circumstances. For example: on January 12, 1953, pilot 535 IAP, senior lieutenant Ya. 3. Khabiev was shot down by an RB-29 scout. The US Air Force said this was the work of ground-based air defense systems. It is possible that some of their losses in the Pentagon could have been hidden - after all, the official data were intended to be published in the press, and one cannot exclude the presence of an ideological subtext in them. (Soviet data for decades were strictly classified, and only in recent years have they leaked to the press.)

      MiG-15 with DPRK identification marks.


      and his main opponent, the F-86E-10-NA aircraft, Colonel Royal W. Baker from the 336-FIS 4-FIW
  4. -5
    10 January 2014 10: 07
    solid article
    1. +2
      10 January 2014 14: 43
      Do not forget one more thing then, and our aviation had very few of these machines, we just started to rearm our army, and the Yankees in that war for the first time massively used new aviation or forgot helicopters, another smut for our designers and scientists,
      ,
    2. 0
      13 January 2014 23: 19
      The article, frankly, is so-so. But the comments on it are much more interesting than the article itself, for which respect and respect for aviation history experts are respected and respected. hi
  5. +4
    10 January 2014 10: 37
    We still flaunt in front of the building of the former flight school.
  6. +6
    10 January 2014 10: 38
    Jet plane shocked West
    I remember that Kurt Tank and Messerschmitt almost blamed the creators of the MiG-15 for plagiarism. True, the question remains unclear: why they themselves did not do this. Moreover, they began to engage in the construction of jet aircraft much earlier ...
    1. +6
      10 January 2014 10: 42
      Well, according to their thoughts, well, they could not create anything sensible in the Union, but if they created it, it means it was stolen. Ideology...
    2. +4
      10 January 2014 11: 58

      Why didn't the tank do the same? Everything is very simple, he did not have time. The Focke-Wulf Ta 183 fighter was ready for mass production by May 1945, the Luftwaffe even managed to place an order for them.
      1. +6
        10 January 2014 13: 09
        Quote: Saburo
        Why didn't the tank do the same? Everything is very simple, he did not have time. The Focke-Wulf Ta 183 fighter was ready for mass production by May 1945, the Luftwaffe even managed to place an order for them.

        But its design has nothing more than an ideological similarity to the design of the MiG-15, that is, the use of bearing planes to create lift, while the planes are swept to improve their air flow at high speeds. To call the MiG - "the same as the Ta 183" - the height of irresponsibility.
        1. HOUSES
          +3
          10 January 2014 13: 39
          The Germans were developing a jet plane before the start of World War II. And they would have created a truly powerful, large-scale aircraft ... But then their own self-confidence failed them, the ME-109 turned out to be so much better than the enemy aircraft that the development of the jet fighter was turned off, and when it was resumed there were no longer any resources. Those German jet aircraft that were used in World War II were far from perfect.
        2. +3
          10 January 2014 18: 50
          Immediately you rush to me to prove something. I did not write that the MiG is the Ta-183 with red stars, with the naked eye it can be seen that the planes, to put it mildly, are different. I just wanted to note that by the end of the war the Germans came close to what we had only at the development stage.

          With the same success, neutral Swedes can be blamed for plagiarism, with their Saab 29, he is in the picture.
      2. +5
        10 January 2014 13: 38
        Quote: Saburo
        The Focke-Wulf Ta 183 fighter was ready for mass production by May 1945,


        And flew after the war.
      3. +2
        10 January 2014 13: 38
        Quote: Saburo
        The Focke-Wulf Ta 183 fighter was ready for mass production by May 1945,


        By the way, there was still a Focke-Wulf Ta 183 airplane similar to the Mess p1101
      4. +13
        10 January 2014 13: 48
        Comparison W with a finger, StG 44 with AK. I apologize for the emotionality, this PROFANATION was simply tired. And it is depressing that it is useless for some to show blueprints, to talk about a similar morphology, sequence and often parallel development. People are brainwashed, they WANT to think that our designs were stolen, and the losses are monstrous.
        1. +3
          10 January 2014 14: 47
          Quote: Nexus 6
          And it is depressing that it is useless for some to show blueprints, to talk about a similar morphology, sequence and often parallel development.

          By the way, in the UK, Gloucester created the Meteor twin-engine heavy fighter jet, which took off for the first time in March 1943 and was put into serial production by the end of the year. Without German developments.
          1. +1
            10 January 2014 15: 11
            I will not go into the Internet now and check myself ... But the first flight from the turbojet engine was made in 1939 by the English Gloucester model, I do not remember.
            1. +5
              10 January 2014 16: 45
              Quote: Nexus 6
              the first flight from the turbojet engine was made in 1939 by the English Gloucester - I don’t remember the model.

              The first aircraft to fly to the sky with a von Ohain HeS 3 turbojet engine (turbojet engine) was the He 178 (Heinkel Germany), operated by a test pilot, airborne captain Erich Varzitz (August 27, 1939)

              Gloucester "E-28/39" "Pioneer" about which you are writing made its first flight, May 15, 1941. it lasted 17 minutes and was successful

              In the photo is a German.
              1. 0
                10 January 2014 17: 44
                Really! It was necessary to check all the same)
                1. +2
                  10 January 2014 19: 01
                  Quote: Nexus 6
                  Really! It was necessary to check all the same)


                  They went head to head, this is Gloucester "Pioneer" first flight
        2. Moon bird
          -2
          10 January 2014 21: 25
          they don’t want to think that way, for the most part they don’t know how. it is a feature of the national mentality - to rush to extremes. hence, on the one hand, eternal disorder, on the other - the breadth of the soul.
      5. +5
        10 January 2014 14: 05
        It’s kind of like another redannounced scheme. And the MiG-15 is designed in a completely different way. This plane is probably not MiG-9 or similar to the Yak-15Y ...
        1. +2
          10 January 2014 14: 36
          Here! Directly "removed from the tongue"))
          1. +2
            10 January 2014 14: 54
            Quote: Nexus 6
            Here! Directly "removed from the tongue"

            Sorry! hi I can put it back ... feel
        2. +3
          10 January 2014 14: 56
          Quote: retired
          And the MiG-15 is designed in a completely different way. This plane is probably not MiG-9 or similar to the Yak-15Y ...


          And who the Germans generally compares with him. They are probably similar to sweep of the wing and all. Here the Germans as practitioners were out of competition,
          1. +1
            10 January 2014 15: 08
            Quote: Vadivak
            And who the Germans generally compares with him.

            It seemed to me that Saburo ...
          2. +1
            10 January 2014 15: 17
            Quote: Saburo
            Why didn't the tank do the same? Everything is very simple, he did not have time. The Focke-Wulf Ta 183 fighter was ready for mass production by May 1945, the Luftwaffe even managed to place an order for them.
            This is not a comparison? And I’ve met many times before.
          3. +3
            10 January 2014 20: 07
            The swept wing was first considered in a report by Adolf Busemann
            “Supersonic Speed ​​Lift” at the Congress in Rome in 1935,
            published in the proceedings of Congress.
            1. +3
              10 January 2014 21: 37
              Quote: Simple
              The swept wing was first considered in a report by Adolf Busemann


              That's it. I would put a dozen pluses. After World War II, he worked in the United States and had a hand in Saber.
  7. +17
    10 January 2014 10: 52
    As usual amers' article is trash. On the one hand, in the headline: "The jet plane that shocked the West." But in the article itself: “I can only say that the Russians are terrible liars,” says the pilot of the Saber Cleveland. "At least in this case."
    As usual...
    There is a pseudo-documentary film "fighters" on the explorer channel ... there, too, "brave American pilots are knocking down MiGs in hundreds ...".

    Somehow it does not fit ... The Russians flew in a "wunderwaffe" stolen from the Germans ... but nevertheless, American pilots shot them down in a ratio of 1 to 14, then "more modest" 1 to 7 ...
    1. +6
      10 January 2014 13: 44
      Quote: Taoist
      Somehow it does not fit ... The Russians flew in a "wunderwaffe" stolen from the Germans ... but nevertheless, American pilots shot them down in a ratio of 1 to 14, then "more modest" 1 to 7 ...


      I read how Kozhedub almost in one burst filled two mustangs over Berlin. In general, the best ace in Korea is our Evgeny Pepelyaev 23 victories.
      1. typhoon7
        +3
        10 January 2014 16: 36
        The story is real. While patrolling the sky over Berlin, our and amerovskoy planes, it is not known for what reason, but the Americans knocked down two of our planes, both pilots were killed. I don’t remember exactly right away, or not, Ivan Kozhedub went up to the sky alone on Lavochkin, caught this pair on Mustangs and knocked both of them down. One pilot died, one fell out with a parachute, he was picked up by their own. When asked: “Who shot you down?” He replied: “Messer with a red nose.” By the way, we had a forum called “Alley of Red Commanders” where the author tried to roughly break through the number of losses in fighters, ours and amerovs, not counting those that allegedly fell from amers for technical reasons. So there are no planes shot down by Kozhedub and his equal commanders. On the first mission, Kozhedub's regiment shot down, I don’t remember exactly, about 240-270 amers (even if not all Sabers were there, it was still not sickly), losses regiment of 23-24 aircraft, 11. Kozhedub himself shot down quite a few, forgot how many, the figure is about Yevgeny Pepelyaev. All of him and people like him air battles were not documented, they could fly in large. And he was shot down just above the front line between the North and the South. ”The fight was not sickly for him, but it seemed to be recaptured. And there were many aces commanders like Ivan Kozhedub. So one and a half hundred can be added to the Amerov's losses.
        1. Fox
          +1
          10 January 2014 23: 47
          Quote: typhoon7
          : "Messer with a red nose

          in the original fokker ...
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +2
      10 January 2014 15: 02
      Alexei! Here enlighten if you can. Still, Kozhedub fought in Korea or not? The fact is that about 2 years ago there was information somewhere that Adjutant Kozheduba, who was with him in Korea, died. And as if he had told his son before his death that Kozhedub still fought, shot down at least a dozen aircraft, was shot down himself, was wounded and Koreans saved him. Almost pulled out of the hands of amers. Enlighten please if you know anything. Well, Kozhedub could not fly! Not such a man was.
      1. +7
        10 January 2014 15: 35
        Quote: retired
        . Still, Kozhedub fought in Korea or not?


        Of course I fought. Colonel Ivan Nikitovich Kozhedub (pseudonym Krylov) took part in the Korean War, being the commander of 324 fighter aviation division of 64 fighter aviation corps of the USSR Air Defense.

        Kozhedub himself did not fly on combat missions - by the decision of I.V. Stalin he was strictly forbidden to take part in battles with the enemy. He carried out operational management of air battles from the command post of the division. However, according to the memoirs of the aircraft technician from the 196th IAP, Pyatov Ivan Anisimovich, who happened to serve as a technician in the command line of the 324th IAD at the Andun aerodrome and serve the plane of Kozhedub itself - the division commander still made one combat flight to the sky of Korea, and the flight night. An American reconnaissance plane took out a commander, who flew almost every night to the Andun area and circled over the airfield. Kozhedub decided to teach this American a lesson and one night flew onto the MiG-15 at night to intercept him. Given the weak capabilities of our air defense systems at night, as well as the lack of a radar sight on board the MiG-15, without which the enemy’s plane was almost impossible to detect at night, Kozhedub was unable to intercept and shoot down this scout. The enemy’s RTS assets located on his ships in the Yellow Sea, detected the departure of the enemy fighter from the Andun airfield and warned the crew of the reconnaissance aircraft, and he wisely left the Andun area. After that, reconnaissance aircraft did not dare to approach Andun at night. - So on the account of Ivan Nikitovich, there is one night, sortie! In addition, he regularly flew the MiG-15 to maintain flying skills over Andun, or sometimes flew the Yak-11 to Mukden on business.

        Here he is in Chinese uniform without insignia. China 1951
        1. +1
          10 January 2014 18: 12
          Quote: Vadivak
          or sometimes flew on the Yak-11 to Mukden on business.

          It seems that Kramorenko described it. And how Kozhedub once ordered S. Kramarenko: “Baida! Ready? Let's go!” There is a whole story about Baida ...
        2. +1
          10 January 2014 18: 37
          Quote: Vadivak
          the division commander nevertheless made one combat flight to the sky of Korea, with a night flight.

          My dear Vadim! This is what I know! But about the adjutant evongo and the son of the same chela ... I swear: I heard from reliable sources !! hi
          Moreover ... A military instructor died in Gubakh in 78g. We were brought and shown a new military commander. He didn’t have a right hand ... It turned out that he was shot down by an Amersov scout in LA-9 (as I remember right now) in Karelia, who also fired at him, so much so that he had to drop the plane and jump with a parachute ... That's it. ..
          1. +1
            10 January 2014 18: 52
            I mean, I'm not used to 3,14 children ...
            1. Alex 241
              +5
              10 January 2014 19: 06
              Hello Jura! Ivan Kozhedub was awarded the title of Hero of the USSR three times, along with Pokryshkin and Zhukov. So what is the secret of this young guy - a native of a Ukrainian poor peasant family? By the end of the war, he shot down 62 enemy aircraft. Such a stunning result was not only among Soviet pilots, but also among allied aviators. Also, during the fighting in Korea in the 50s, Ivan once again demonstrated his superiority over American pilots. According to official data, Ivan Nikitovich was sent to Korea as the commander of an air division and did not personally take part in the hostilities. However, having studied the numerous testimonies of his colleagues, relatives, as well as archival documents, a sensational conclusion was drawn that Ivan Kozhedub, contrary to Moscow orders, personally fought in Korea with the Americans and was even shot down.
              1. +3
                10 January 2014 20: 37
                Quote: Alex 241
                Such a stunning result was not only among Soviet pilots, but also among allied aviators


                Sasha - Achtung, Pokryshkin in der play. The flight book burned down together with staff documents and it contained 15 enemy aircraft shot down by him. He didn’t say a word, this is the widow of the Marshal of Aviation - Maria Kuzminichna Pokryshkina provided an opportunity to get acquainted with her personal diaries, letters, notebooks.

                And I don’t know the truth or not

                One of the private aviation museums in France houses his front-line "Airacobra"
                1. Alex 241
                  +6
                  10 January 2014 20: 53
                  Vadim, I welcome, I’ve heard about France for the first time, but in Novosibirsk, his Cobra is standing. Near the Novosibirsk College of Metallurgy and Mechanical Engineering. Pokryshkin American aircraft "AeroCobra" R-39 A.I. Pokryshkina. Three times Hero of the Soviet Union drove him from Tehran along with his fellow soldiers.
          2. +3
            10 January 2014 19: 20
            Quote: retired
            My dear Vadim! This is what I know! But about the adjutant evongo and the son of the same brow ..


            Kramorenko and Pepelyaev would write a read interview

            E.G. Pepeliaev: "..... I do not mean the commander of the 324th division, IN Kozhedub. Moscow forbade him to participate in air battles. It was absolutely the right decision. It is likely that our famous ace would be hunted down." And further: "Not being able to take part in hostilities, Ivan Nikitovich was from dawn to the onset of darkness at the division command post ...."
            From the book of B.S. Abakumova "In the sky of North Korea"
            "American guidance posts were located on almost all the islands up to the Chinese border, and their radars and eavesdropping systems controlled our mode of operation. They immediately communicated to the leaders of the groups all the information they obtained, often interfered in the control of the battle from the ground in Russian, but they could not no way to fake Kozhedub's cooing bass, his intonation, which each of our pilots caught perfectly and did not fall into the network of false commands. "


            But then (I don’t even know what to call it) what you probably asked
            "In general, my grandfather Kozhedub knew, including drinking with him in Kubinka. Kozhedub then told how an American pilot knocked him down in Korea, - he had to jump with a parachute. When he landed on the ground, the American passed over him - but did not" finish off " "(The Germans finished off - although this is beyond the ethics of the pilots.) According to his grandfather, Kozhedub then issued the following phrase:" It would be interesting to shoot if he knew who he shot down? .. "Another grandfather described how while serving in China, during the Korean War he ensured the loading of Kozhedub under the guise of a Chinese pilot on the railway. (The Americans accused the USSR of helping Korea, including the fact that Kozhedub is fighting there - the USSR denied the charges and it was required to present Kozhedub in Moscow) In general, I'm not sure how to deal with And also - on the downed American planes - he said so about them "Well, these were on account of a future war" -
            And this film is most likely fantastic. walked along ORT
            Secrets of the century. Two wars of Ivan Kozhedub quote Ivan Kozhedub, contrary to the orders of Moscow, not only personally fought in Korea with yesterday's American allies, but was once shot down in the sky over Korea. Many of the film’s materials - diaries and personal letters of Ivan Kozhedub from family archives, a personal file, an account card, award sheets and unique photo documents from the Central Archive of the Russian Defense Ministry confirming Kozhedub’s participation in the Korean War will be shown to the viewer for the first time.
          3. +2
            10 January 2014 19: 40
            Quote: retired
            It turned out that on LA-9 (as I remember right now) in Karelia, an Amersov scout shot down him, who also fired at him, so much so that he had to drop the plane and jump with a parachute ..


            I don’t know the count of Karelia, and on April 8, 1950, a unit of fighters from the 30th Guards IAP under the command of Captain Donkin intercepted an American four-engine reconnaissance over the Baltic Sea in the area of ​​the Libava naval base. But it was La-11, although in principle it was La-9m, and veterans have no complaints to you, for example Fedorov, for example, Ivan Evgrafovich, he is also Baron Münghausen of the Soviet Air Force Total officially downed planes - 11 + 1; stated 49 personally downed planes and 47 more group victories. Potiom added to 134, and then lost the score, brought up to almost 200.
            He flew to Korea with Beria

            - I brought Beria to Korea in 1951. While Lavrenty Palych went about his business, I begged Ivan Kozhedub, who then commanded our fighter aircraft in Korea, to give me the opportunity to fly. Ivan during the Great Patriotic War fought under my command. From old memory, and allowed. For four days, seven Americans shot down.

            In the Korean war, which Fedorov talks about, he did not participate at all, and he never shot down American planes.

            Kurchatov personally asked for the first languid bomb. But in fact, that was

            For the unworthy behavior of a senior officer, expressed in extortion and fraud, as well as unsatisfactory work as a division commander, I petition for the removal of Colonel FEDOROV from his post and for his appointment with demotion.
            Commander of 16 VA Lieutenant General of Aviation S. I. Rudenko 7.04.1944/XNUMX/XNUMX



            Like this. Yours faithfully
            1. +1
              10 January 2014 19: 57
              Quote: Vadivak
              there are all kinds of veterans

              Our veteran was also awarded with orders! It is for the downing of this scout. To their shame, they did not ask him ... And at the beginning of the 80th, he died ... And they sent us a paratrooper ... Well, that was where it started ... I mean, I ... Gad-3 set me up according to the results of 10 years. And this is for me, an athlete, an almost legendary person in Gubakh!
              1. +1
                10 January 2014 20: 09
                Quote: retired
                ..At the beginning of the 80th year and he died ..


                1963?
                1. +3
                  10 January 2014 20: 42
                  Quote: Vadivak
                  1963?

                  15.12.1962/63/17. It so bothered me in sports !!!! I studied with the 62rd! So he flew at the competitions simply by the year of birth. And the fact that I was born 63 days later and it would be all according to the law didn’t bother anyone ... Not any concessions! That's how I hung out between the XNUMXnd year (of which everything was without me all the way) and the XNUMXrd year, from where I was expelled due to the wrong year of birth! sadness! crying
                  1. +3
                    10 January 2014 20: 54
                    Quote: retired
                    5.12.1962.


                    Peers in general.
                    1. +2
                      10 January 2014 20: 59
                      Quote: Vadivak
                      Peers in general

                      Take care of yourself, dear! hi
                      1. +2
                        10 January 2014 22: 00
                        Quote: retired
                        Take care of yourself, dear!


                        Thank you and you do not get sick hi
            2. +1
              10 January 2014 20: 10
              Quote: Vadivak
              for example, Fedorov, for example, Ivan Evgrafovich, aka Baron Münghausen of the Soviet Air Force Total of officially shot down planes - 11 + 1; declared 49 personally shot down planes and another 47 group victories. Potiom added to 134, and then lost the score, brought up to almost 200.

              He also said that he traveled to Germany as part of the Soviet commission and got acquainted with new models of aircraft. So: archival documents do not confirm this. I can reduce it to historians. Like this...
              1. +3
                10 January 2014 20: 46
                Quote: retired
                I can reduce it to historians.


                Thank you talked with Vyacheslav Kondratiev, sensible man
                1. +1
                  10 January 2014 20: 52
                  Quote: Vadivak
                  talked with Vyacheslav Kondratiev

                  Well, what can I say ... My capabilities are much more modest ... But my friends, historians, are no worse than Kondratyev! Well ... I feel like thinking ...
            3. +1
              10 January 2014 20: 21
              Quote: Vadivak
              Kurchatov personally asked for the first languid bomb again.
              Well, that’s what I probably know better ... (Well, it seems to me ...) Still, Kikoin taught with us ... Not Ilya, really, but his brother Abram. He gave 5 years to our atomic project. Nobody dropped the first atomic charge! There was a ground explosion. The explosive device was a stationary structure located on a decent area ... I don’t remember the details anymore. I remember roughly the scale: commensurate with a 9-story building ...
              Besides. Abram Kikoin was a climber before the war. So: in 42nd year, he and other (few) climbers were strained about the preparation of the mountain parts of the Red Army. I told a lot of interesting things ...
    4. 0
      10 January 2014 19: 14
      Quote: Taoist
      Somehow it does not fit ... The Russians flew in a "wunderwaffe" stolen from the Germans ... but nevertheless, American pilots shot them down in a ratio of 1 to 14, then "more modest" 1 to 7 ...

      According to the latest data, one Russian aircraft accounts for 3,4 American ..
      There is even a case where a North Korean PO-2 was shot down by an American jet F-94! laughing
      1. +2
        10 January 2014 22: 19
        Quote: morpex
        PO-2 North Koreans shot down an American jet F-94!

        The American soldiers called the Po - 2 - "Bedcheck Charlies" ("The little ones who get out of bed", that is, do not let you sleep).

        Only he did not bring him down. F-94B, having detected the Po - 2 radar, went on the attack sharply reduced the speed of the aircraft, for which it released flaps and even the chassis, not only speed but also altitude was lost. The plane crashed into a hill, and the crew died. Po-2 won.
        1. Alex 241
          +5
          10 January 2014 22: 33
          After the end of World War II, the glorious “corn-growers” ​​were in no hurry to leave for a well-deserved rest. They provided communications, took part in activities to eliminate armed gangs - in general, were engaged in “peaceful” work. Soon (as was reported in the foreign press), fate prepared some of them for another difficult battle, in which these wooden-percale biplanes had to face in the air ... the latest American fighter jets of that time.
          This happened more than 40 years ago in the sky of North Korea, where at first the trouble-free hard workers Po-2, along with the Yakovlev trainers Yak-18, all in the same role as a light night bomber acted very successfully. They were used mainly to undermine the combat effectiveness of enemy fighter aircraft. With the onset of darkness, the sky above its front-line airfields was filled with a low-pitched chirping of low-powered engines compared to the roar of jet engines. At first, the Americans did not pay much attention to this, having apparently forgotten the lessons of the Second World War. Yes, and they did not realize at first that one of the tasks of light-bombing aircraft (as indicated in the Manual on the conduct of hostilities on Po-2, P-5 and I-15 aircraft) was "exhausting the enemy’s troops and reserves."
          The systematic nightly bombardments carried out by “annoying mosquitoes” eventually began to drive the Americans into a frenzy: at such moments their condition was akin to the constant nervous tension experienced by their fellow sailors during the war with Japan at sea, with fear of waiting for kamikaze attacks .
          Soon, in addition to anti-aircraft weapons, fighters joined the fight against “mosquitoes”: “twin mustangs”, “tigerkets” and “corsairs”. However, their crews did not achieve the expected success. Then the Americans decided to throw their AT-6 Texan training aircraft into battle. But ... failure again. And this is not surprising: it was difficult for pilots to find camouflaged, slow-moving, clinging to the ground Po-2 in the night sky. In addition, the Americans were afraid to search for an air enemy at low altitudes, especially in mountainous areas. And if you recall, then the Nazis during the war years could not find effective means and methods of dealing with our “Rus plywood”. So the Americans acted in North Korea “by typing,” learning from their own mistakes.
          On-2
          Meanwhile, the “celestial slow-moving” continued to bomb, demoralize the troops and personnel of the enemy air units. In the fight against “mosquitoes” he had to test his newest twin-seat fighter jet, the R-94E Starfire, equipped with a radar sight. I must say that the R-94 crews did not immediately prevail in this battle: there were losses among them. When the pilot of one of the interceptors discovered Po-2 in the air and went on the attack, he did not take into account the high speed of approach and ... collided with the enemy. Both crews died. Another American pilot, having learned the bitter experience of his compatriot, released the chassis and brake flaps before the attack, but apparently “overdid it” - lost control of speed, entered the stall mode and got into a tailspin.
          The first victory over the mosquito rattling in the dark American pilots managed to win in May 1952.
          Only after that did the Po-2 battle laborers finally resign.
          History probably does not know of another similar case of confrontation in the air of airplanes belonging to the epochs of aviation development so distant in time from each other and so different in their purpose.
          .
          1. Alex 241
            +1
            10 January 2014 22: 35
            "... On June 27, F-82s from 68, 339 and 4 squadrons and F-80s from 8 FBWs covered the evacuation from the port of Incheon and from the Gimpo airfield. Four Twinmustangs from Squadron 68 were patrolling between Gimpo and Suwon on 1 m, while a trio of 300 FAWS were above them at 339 m, and four more "Twins" of 2 FAWS settled behind a thin layer of clouds at an altitude of 600 m. After three hours of fruitless "cutting circles" in thickening clouds, one of the American planes was suddenly attacked. After being damaged, Lt. Charles B. Moran of the 4th FAWS told his comrades - "They are shooting at me!" Lt. William "Skitir" Hudson ( Lt. William G. Hudson) and radar operator Lieutenant Carl Fraser) from 4th Squadron, on a Twin Mustang with the inscription "BUCKET O'BOLTS" on the fuselage noticed the enemy in the break of the clouds and sat tightly on him tail (the enemy fighter was identified as a two-seat Yak-000U).there was not enough speed to pull away from the heavy Twinmustang. The first turn fell on the tail of the Yak fuselage, pieces flew from it. The pilot tried to get out of the fire with a steep right bend, the second round pierced the right wing plane of the enemy fighter. As a result, the fuel tank caught fire and the aileron flew off. Through the glass of the lantern it was visible how the pilot in the Yak's cockpit turned around and said something to his observer, apparently ordered him to jump. The observer was either killed or frightened, he did not use the parachute. The pilot jumped out a moment before the plane went into a random fall and crashed into the ground. "
            []
            The frame of the William Hudson F-82 machine gun makes it possible to confidently identify his opponent as the Yak-11.
          2. Alex 241
            +3
            10 January 2014 23: 34
            It was in one of the flight schools, when piloting skills were still received on the Po-2. Instructor at the back, cadet at the front.
            One teacher had a bad habit of cranking such a feint.
            In flight with the cadet, this instructor showed certain exercises, shouted to the cadet: “Do as I do!”, And then unscrewed his control knob and tapped it on the glass. The cadet turned around and saw the instructor's pen flying overboard. Good method. Maybe that instructor was taught how to swim in childhood: thrown to the depths - and swim ...
            In general, in this situation, the cadet had no choice but to feverishly recall everything that was hammered into him and, if you want, you don’t want to, learn to fly. And there’s still landing in a cold sweat. And then another whole company combed through the airfield in search of the damn pen. In short - do not bring, Lord!
            But cadets are cunning people. Here is one such quietly took a spare handle with him.
            Flight. The instructor shows pa, shouts “do as I do”, unscrews the handle, knock-knock with it and throws it out in FIG.
            The cadet, squinting slyly (from the wind, of course), takes a pen from the zagashnik, turns around, also taps the instructor's visor and "throws it overboard into the oncoming wave."
            Well, what is there to tell what the instructor’s face was.
    5. +1
      12 January 2014 14: 10
      The article is, first of all, for the American reader: sources - former American pilots or persons who escaped from the USSR. The information displayed in the article on the effectiveness of the battles does not agree with the official (350 MiG-15 by 90 Ceibs, despite the fact that the Soviet cars were better armed and, when piloting them by Soviet pilots, were inferior mainly in equipment - this is not even funny, it's statistics method).
  8. +19
    10 January 2014 10: 56
    The article did not reveal anything fundamentally new. There are a few interesting episodes, but in general it all comes down to the fact that "yes, the MiG-15 is an outstanding aircraft, and it made American pilots very nervous, but their Saber is still better." Moreover, an endless "song" about the ratio of losses between MiGs and "Sabers". Listing the shortcomings of the Soviet fighter, the author only casually mentions in what conditions the MiG was created, and in what - the F-86. As for the use of German developments, it would be worth mentioning who still managed to play more. In short, a typical American approach to assessing our technology.
    1. +4
      10 January 2014 15: 32
      Gentlemen, what are you writing about? The very first battles with these airplanes completely repelled the Yankees' desire to get into a war with China, But Truman was not a weak politician, he was kept by losses and MacArthur besieged him so that he didn’t go so far, This hero MacArthur even signaled his resignation protest that they don’t listen to him, It was like that,
    2. +1
      10 January 2014 19: 33
      Quote: aviator65
      The article did not reveal anything fundamentally new. There are a few interesting episodes, but in general it all comes down to the fact that "yes, the MiG-15 is an outstanding aircraft, and it made American pilots very nervous, but their Saber is still better." Moreover, an endless "song" about the ratio of losses between MiGs and "Sabers". Listing the shortcomings of the Soviet fighter, the author only casually mentions in what conditions the MiG was created, and in what - the F-86. As for the use of German developments, it would be worth mentioning who still managed to play more. In short, a typical American approach to assessing our technology.

      Of course, propaganda stinks per kilometer.
      But it is always useful to know the point of view of the adversary.
      I also liked the constant references to the anti-Soviet historian-aviator Ilyusha Grinberg. wassat
      Although they usually heroize themselves even more, so, in comparison with other "historical" articles by American authors, this one looks almost objective.
      1. +1
        11 January 2014 17: 13
        Yes, it’s so bad that now, in the afternoon with fire, you won’t find those copies of interrogations of downed US pilots in Korea, it was more interesting to read them, and not newbies and pilots who had experience of war got off, Now they boast of their exploits and then they were simply shocked by this machine and they were even more surprised by the survivability of the machine, considering the dimensions, you just don’t understand. The MIG put an end to all the American air force power, Time passed and the Yankees started a massive attack on those events, you are not surprised at one interesting observation many planes were shot down by anti-aircraft artillery, reports of anti-aircraft guns from that time they completely refute all this, they simply stated that they need completely different means and methods of dealing with airplanes, air defense is not effective and the number of barrels does not play a role here, efficiency quickly approaches zero but helicopters once in the affected area are destroyed very quickly, the bad thing is that these there are no documents on the sites and American fabrications are in full swing, They are read by our children and believe them we have now education e. There is a struggle for the minds of youth, the good soil is fertile, even here you can see these results,
  9. -4
    10 January 2014 10: 59
    Quote: retired
    I remember that Kurt Tank and Messerschmitt almost blamed the creators of the MiG-15 for plagiarism. True, the question remains unclear: why they themselves did not do this. Moreover, they began to engage in the construction of jet aircraft much earlier ...

    How can one be blamed for plagiarism if the design of the aircraft is completely different, but the fact that the engines were borrowed from Messer is for sure hi
    1. +2
      10 January 2014 11: 03
      In the sense of? Have you read the article?
      Instead, the Rolls-Royce Nene engine was originally installed on the MiG-15
    2. +6
      10 January 2014 13: 27
      Quote: Andrew Peter
      engines borrowed from Messer is for sure

      Absolutely not! On the first MiGs there were copies of the NIN engine, with a thrust of about 2,5 tons. Rolls Royce. They were a standalone English product. By the way, there is a legend that Mikoyan won them at billiards! Then they began to install our own, domestic developments. I forgot the brand already. But not a copy of NIN.
      1. +5
        10 January 2014 15: 30
        Quote: retired
        On the first MiGs there were copies of the NIN engine, with a thrust of about 2,5 tons. Rolls Royce. They were a standalone English product.


        Rolls-Royce turbojet engines (turbojet engines) purchased in England: Dervent-V with a thrust of 1590 kgf, Nin-I with a thrust of 2040 kgf and Nin-II with a thrust of 2270 kgf.
        We are interested in Nina

        “Nin-I” had a welded gas collector body, and “Nin-II” had a cast one, which allowed not only to reduce the mass of the latter from 790 kg to 745 kg, but also to increase traction.
        Specialists of Design Bureau No. 45 of the plant took six Ninas, including two Nin-II, to take drawings, analyze materials, and also for experimental and lengthy tests. So in 1947 appeared RD-45 Nin-1 and RD-45f Nin-2. created on the basis of Ninov purchased under license, but without design and technological documentation. Subsequently, the taxiways were called VK-1; its thrust was 2650 kgf with its own weight of 825 kg. Resource: 100-200 hours. It was produced at the GAZ-116 plant.

        Why Ning?
        The NIN-1 engine was used by the British on fighters “Vampire”, “Meteor”, “Shuting-Star”, E-10/44 and did not have a single flight accident due to a design fault.
        1. +2
          10 January 2014 19: 26
          Quote: Vadivak
          Why Ning?
          My dear Vadim! Several of my friends (unfortunately everyone is already deceased ...) just captured this topic ... Well, for example: Gennady Alexandrovich Marchenko (do not attract Wikipedia! There is about furniture ...). Who knows, he knows ...
          1. +3
            10 January 2014 19: 59
            Quote: retired
            My dear Vadim! A few of my friends unfortunately are all already deceased


            No less expensive Yuri. I’m sorry, but which of us is getting younger with age? When in half an hour, you already begin to look at life differently
            1. +2
              10 January 2014 20: 02
              Quote: Vadivak
              When in half an hour, you already begin to look at life differently

              Yes. hi
    3. +3
      10 January 2014 13: 58
      Quote: Andrew Peter
      what engines borrowed from Messer is for sure

      On 15 there were copies of the English engines, but on the instant-9, but copies of the German, but the instant-9 did not fight.
      1. +3
        10 January 2014 15: 58
        Quote: cherkas.oe
        Mig-9 did not fight.


        Rather, there is no documentary evidence. The MiG-9 served in Germany, delivered to China: in 1950-51 and the fight against enemy bombers, the MiG-9 could carry out quite successfully, which was confirmed by air battles with the Tu-2. Somewhere over any hassles were.

        II Parts in which stood the MiG - 9:
        • The 14th fighter air corps of the 303rd fighter air division of the 1st Air Army.
        • The 5th fighter air corps of the 309rd fighter air division of the 7st Air Army.
        • 1st Guards Fighter Air Corps of the 3rd Guards Fighter Air Division of the 16th Air Army.
        • The 10th fighter air corps of the 15rd fighter air division of the 14st Air Army.
        • 11th Fighter Air Corps of the 5th Guards Fighter Air Division of the 15th Air Army.
        • 1st training and methodological aviation center
    4. +2
      10 January 2014 14: 47
      As far as I know, on the MIG-15 was our revision of the British engine
      1. +1
        10 January 2014 19: 19
        Quote: Andrey Peter
        ..... but the fact that the engines were borrowed from Messer is for sure hi

        You are wrong, not from Messer No.
        At the end of 1946, a delegation was sent from the Soviet Union to England, which was then the leader of the world jet engine engineering, consisting of the Chief designers: aircraft designer A.I. Mikoyan, engine engineer V.Ya. Klimov and leading specialist in aviation materials science S. T. Kishkin. The Soviet delegation managed to purchase the most advanced Rolls-Royce turbojet engines: Dervent-V with a thrust of 1590 kgf, Nin-I with a thrust of 2040 kgf and Nin-II with a thrust of 2270 kgf. Already in February 1947, the Dervent-V engines (a total of 30 units) and Nin-I (20 units) began to arrive in the USSR, and in November 1947 - Nin-II engines (5 units) . Subsequently, the latest English engine building products were successfully copied and put into serial production. Dervent-V was produced by the domestic industry under the name RD-500, and Nin-I and Nin-II, respectively, turned into RD-45 and RD-45F.
        From here --- http://www.opoccuu.com/mig-15.htm

        And here is an interesting historical fact smile ---
        1. +1
          10 January 2014 23: 21
          A good pseudonym, combat - the third Kansi - Strong wind, a whirlwind.
  10. HAM
    +2
    10 January 2014 11: 13
    And I remember in the "Children's Park" of Armavir in the 60s of the MIG 15th, an amateur was to climb on it!
  11. predator.3
    +2
    10 January 2014 11: 35
    Atley offered the USSR licensed production, and this was done in response to a solemn promise to use these engines only for non-military purposes. This proposal struck the Americans, who made loud protests. And what about the tips? Soviet-born aviation historian Ilya Grinberg, born in Ukraine, believes that “Stalin himself could not believe it. He said: “Who, in their right mind, would sell us such things?” ”


    And what our current ones are doing, all of China's armament is "copied" Soviet technology! Looks really our "current" "are not in their right mind"!
    1. +5
      10 January 2014 13: 22
      About the "solemn promise" I want to smile strongly. How, interestingly, it was possible to use this jet engine for "non-military" purposes, if in 45 - 47 years there was nothing to use it except for fighters. The British also created it for their "Meteor". A little later, they were equipped with bombers. They have Canberra, we have IL-28. And then there was no question of jet passenger cars. It's just that ours managed to hurry up on the wave of victorious euphoria that has not yet subsided in Europe before the official announcement of a new, now "cold" war. Everything is according to the laws of business, within the framework of (for now) partnerships. And all these statements, including those they themselves put into Stalin's mouth, are nothing more than belated nibbling by our potential opponents of their elbows.
      "... Ilya Grinberg thinks ..."Very dubious reference. Did he talk with Stalin on this subject?
      As for China, it was initially considered our very great friend. We were "brothers forever" after all. So everything was brotherly there. They received their first licenses from us then, and even then they began to practice copying. And now this is just a side of the business. Ours will not sell, so they will buy from others. There are enough offers. The Chinese aircraft carrier is an example of this.
  12. +17
    10 January 2014 11: 49
    “However, after several maneuvers, the Saber regained its position and again found itself on the tail of the Russian pilot,” we can read it as a pleasant phrase about the continuity of generations, since the pilot was Russian.
    “In my opinion, the MiG-15 had no particular mysticism,” he says. - My favorite plane, which, unfortunately, I did not have the opportunity to fly, was the F-86 “Saber,” which is a very objective opinion of an independent European expert who never flew on the best plane.
    Fu, propaganda is such propaganda))
    1. HOUSES
      +5
      10 January 2014 13: 55
      I read this article on INosmi. There, the commentators of the author were thrust into the asphalt. In fact, here it is necessary to consider not whose plane is better or worse, but the skill of the pilots flying on these machines. Agree ASA of the Second World War on both sides and yesterday’s Korean and Chinese cadets.
    2. typhoon7
      +1
      10 January 2014 19: 20
      I do not understand that Western articles were poured into our site. Some kind of psi attacks. That about drones in "cages". By the way, I would have believed it if the former Chief of the General Staff Makarov or Serdyuk would sing about these drones, but not Shamanov. Shamanov would have thrown his interlocutor out of the plane without a parachute for such questions. War in Korea. Vietnam will be coming soon. And about Ivan Kozhedub, the program was, according to the recollections of his friends, colleagues, where they clearly indicated that Ivan Kozhedub had few victories in the sky of Korea. It is necessary by the way to look in the internet, perhaps this dock. the film is on the internet.
      1. Alex 241
        +2
        10 January 2014 19: 31
        The film is called "Two Wars of Ivan Kozhedub", posted above on the branch.
  13. +4
    10 January 2014 13: 11
    And what do you want, it is published in the section "Foreign Press Translations, History, Aviation".
    You will also remember the top ten "best" tanks according to Discovery.
    1. DMB-78
      0
      12 January 2014 00: 11
      oooooooo, about tanks this is generally a masterpiece)))))))))))))) this heal ....))))))))
  14. ka5280
    +2
    10 January 2014 13: 15
    An article typical of US patriots. Especially about the loss ratio of 9 to 1 in favor of the F-86. I wonder why not 90 to 1. And the MiG-15 itself is a beautiful car, a kind of stocky boxer light heavyweight. A F-86 is similar to a protein-fed pitching.
  15. Sephid
    0
    10 January 2014 13: 31
    I heard that part of the thing was that we had RDX in the shells, but they still haven't. Although the planes are almost identical.
  16. rolik
    +4
    10 January 2014 13: 39
    Aircraft are almost identical but not in everything:
    Our fighter had superiority in vertical maneuver, while the American pilots tried to impose a battle in the horizontal plane, where the Sabers had the advantage. The MiG-15 had a slight advantage over the F-86 in the ceiling, rate of climb and specific thrust-to-weight ratio, yielding in flight range and critical speed (critical speed: MiG-15bis-0,92M, after which "felling" began, and the plane lost control; F- 86 -
    0,95M, after which the shaking began). "Saber" faster picking up speed at pike-
    In Miami, MiG was superior to Saber in armament power - one 37mm. and two 23mm.
    against six machine guns 12,6mm. Electronic flight and navigation equipment
    The Sabers were better than on the MiG-15. In addition, American pilots have
    anti-overload suits. Thanks to them, pilots easier to carry high
    overloads and less tired. The main fighter of our aviators at the beginning of hostilities was the MiG-15, and since 1951 MiG-15 bis began to arrive. This plane had an engine with more thrust. This increased its rate of climb and thrust-weight ratio. If compared
    MiG-15 thread with similar enemy aircraft, then in its combat qualities
    superior to any of them, with the exception of the P-86 that appeared in Korea in December 1950.
    Subsequently, new, more advanced modifications of the F-86E appeared (since August
    1951) and F-86F (since March 1952).
    October 30, when 21 "Super-Strength" and a large number of exterminate-
    lei bombers were sent to strike at the Namsi airfield under
    covered with F-86 fighters (about 200 aircraft in total). The interception was raised
    44 MiG-15s of both divisions. Another 12 cars remained on the ground as a reserve. Years old-
    the cheeks, having discovered the bombers, did not get involved in battle with the fighter
    tiya, and in pairs, diving through their formation attacked the B-29. As a result, 12 were shot down
    B-29 and 4 F-84. In addition, many "Fortresses" were damaged - almost
    each returning crew brought dead or wounded. Americans managed to bring down
    just one MiG-15. This day went down in the history of the US Air Force as Black Tuesday. After
    of this defeat, the "Fortress" was used exclusively at night. Great success was achieved by the pair M. Averin from the 148th GIAP, who shot down on February 10, 1952 the leading ace of the US Air Force in Korea, Major D. Davis. The American pilot, who had 14 victories in this war and 7 in World War II, could not leave the burning fighter. He was so popular among his colleagues that a 3-day mourning for the famous pilot was announced. A pilot of the 821st regiment of 190 Iad Zabelin shot down 39 aircraft (officially recognized) 9 Sabers and 8 F-1 in 84 air battles.
    1. +3
      10 January 2014 13: 46
      Quote: rolik
      The MiG-15 had a slight advantage over the F-86 in the ceiling, rate of climb and specific thrust-weight ratio

      And especially in weapons. 2-23mm. and 1-37mm. The hit of even 1 shell of the "big" (as the pilots themselves called it) of the cannon almost certainly led to the shooting down of the aircraft (but not the B-29). This also happened when hitting 4-5 23mm. shells. In principle, one is enough - into the cockpit ... I seem to remember so ...
      1. +2
        10 January 2014 16: 03
        Quote: retired
        The hit of 1 even a "big" shell (as the pilots themselves called it) of the cannon almost certainly led to the shooting down of the aircraft


        It used to be that some were lucky
        Glenn Todd Eaglestone examines the damage received by his F-86A BuNo 49-1281 aircraft in a battle with Sergey-Kramarenko MiG-15. 17 June 1951.
        1. +1
          10 January 2014 19: 06
          Well ... It can be seen that the shell exploded "tangentially." The fragments went into ... So you can live! What if the shell exploded behind the skin? Northern animal anyway!
        2. Kassandra
          0
          14 March 2015 04: 47
          Saber sowed 4,5 times more often and 2,5p longer could do it
          hit of two 12,5mm is equal to one 23mm
          37mm generally gave an arch over the American.

          a clear advantage in the armory was behind Sebr. MiG had the best altitude and thrust-weight ratio (1,5 times).

          precise tailings were rare, the fire was mainly at the toe, so the advantage in rate of fire was especially significant.

          therefore, in 1953 the Americans already shot down more than 2 times, until the summer of 1952 - the USSR Air Force (not air defense).
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. rolik
      +8
      10 January 2014 13: 46
      Quote: rolik
      Aircraft are almost identical but not in everything:

      I will continue. Now data on losses from the two sides of the confrontation.
      According to the General Staff of the SA, the pilots of the 64th Jacob produced during the military
      of actions of 64300 sorties, participated in 1872 air battles and from the strike of 1106 United Nations Air Force planes (including 651 Sabers). Another 153 enemy aircraft (including 40 Sabers) were shot down by corps anti-aircraft artillery fire. At the same time, AviationOVA made 22300 sorties, participated in 366 air battles and shot down 271 aircraft (including 181 Sabers). Unfortunately, there is no data on losses from Korean anti-aircraft artillery.
      According to other data provided in the historical form of the 64th Jacob, the Soviet
      pilots made 63229 sorties, participated in 1790 air battles. 1309 enemy aircraft were shot down, including fighter aircraft - 1097 and 212 - fire-fighting artillery. As a result of air battles, the Soviet side was captured and transferred to the Chinese and North Koreans 262 American pilots. The losses of the Soviet side amounted to 142 officers (including 126 pilots), 133 sergeants and
      soldier 335 aircraft. According to other sources, Soviet losses amounted to 351 cars and 311 dead pilots. The United Air Army (China and North Korea) lost 126 pilots and 231 aircraft.
      During the Korean War, 51 Soviet pilots became ace, having won five or more victories. Mr. H. Sutyagin shot down 22 aircraft, Mr. E. Pepelyaev -19. The results of American pilots are more modest. The most successful of them were: captain J. McConnell - 16, captain Tan J. Jabar - 15 ,. And only 40 pilots became aces.
      In averaged form, data from various Soviet sources look like this: the loss of the UN aviation of about 1600, including 870 Sabers; USSR, PRC and DPRK lost 570 aircraft (of which about 520 MiGs) and 400 pilots.
      The data of the Soviet side differ significantly from Western sources. In particular, the book "Air Power is the Decisive Force in Korea" notes: "For 32 months of the war, since November 1950. and through July 1953. shot down 802 MiG and 56 Sabers ".
      And here is data from other Western sources: "For 34 months of the conflict, aviation
      The 5th VA shot down 819 enemy aircraft, 650 of which were MiG-15s. 611 was shot down by American F-86 "Saber" aircraft. As a result of air battles 79 F-86 Sabers were lost by the American side. "" The main losses of the 5th VA were from ground weapons, and not from participation in air battles. Thus, losses from ground fire amounted to 619 aircraft, compared with 106 shot down in the air. "At the same time, the total losses by their recognition amounted to 2837 aircraft. Note the coincidence" exactly the opposite of the ratio of losses of UN aircraft from anti-aircraft artillery and fighter-
      According to our data, it’s 1:10, the Americans counted 6: 1. The experience of the 2nd World confirms the Soviet and not the American figure. Of the total losses of UN aviation (2800), only about 25% (700) are classified as military, which is also not confirmed by the experience of the last war. Thus, they seem to admit that their pilots could not fly, and the equipment was no good, otherwise it is impossible to explain such a number of aircraft crash losses and pilot errors.
      1. rolik
        +10
        10 January 2014 13: 59
        Quote: rolik
        such an amount of loss of aircraft failure and pilot errors is impossible.

        I conclude my comments on this article. By averaging the figures obtained from various sources, it can be established that the US Air Force and those who joined them shot down 920 aircraft (850 MiG-15 Soviet and Chinese). The combat losses of the US Air Force amounted to 170 aircraft and about the same went missing.
        If we add to them the losses of the US Navy and the Air Forces of other countries, the total losses will not exceed 400 aircraft and the losses from anti-aircraft artillery fire of 619 aircraft. Indirect confirmation of the inaccuracy of American data can serve as the same figure of the number of pilots saved by the rescue service -1000 people. If we take into account that at least 260 pilots were captured (see above), and the casualties were no less than ours, then we will get at least 1650 crew members of downed aircraft. Given that in the vast majority of these were single-seat aircraft, we get 1300-1400 aircraft, roughly coinciding with Soviet data.
        What can explain such a serious difference between the two warring parties? Firstly, the Americans counted their victories from photographs of a photo of a machine gun movie, taking into account the testimonies of other pilots. This made the statistics far from sinless. The photo of the movie machine gun recorded only the fact of getting on the plane, and not its fall. For example, the Americans said that in the battle on April 3 they destroyed 4 MiG-15s. Actually, one fighter was shot down on that day and 3 fighters of the 176th GIAP were damaged. The MiG-15 was very tenacious with respect to the fire of the Saber machine guns. There were cases when MiGs, which received a hundred or more holes, safely landed at their airfields and again made sorties again after a small field repair. Secondly, Americans often attributed their shot down planes as missing or as lost due to unexplained circumstances or technical reasons. On April 3, Mr. I. Yablokov (176th Regiment) defeated the Saber, piloted by Major Ronald Shirlow. The American pilot, despite the fact that the fuel tanks of his plane were broken, managed to land on a damaged plane near the village of Fenian. The pilot was captured, and the plane was destroyed during the F-84 raid. The US Air Force attributes this loss to a malfunction in the fuel system while the Yablokov photo machine gun leaves no doubt about the cause of this “malfunction”. Thirdly, the Pentagon could simply hide part of its losses - after all, official data on losses was published in the press and, for ideological reasons, they could be underestimated. Soviet data was strictly classified, and only in recent years hit the press. In Soviet air units, the main thing was confirmation of ground units, without which a downed plane, as a rule, was not counted. In addition, representatives of the regiment went to the place where the enemy machine fell, photographed it and had to bring some detail, best of all, a factory tag with a number. The testimony of the pilots themselves was almost not taken into account. For example, the pilot of the 16th IAP L. Morschikhin shot down a Saber that exploded in the air, debris scattered over a large territory. As a result, the pilot was unable to prove his victory. If a downed plane crashed into the sea, then most often it was also not counted. After a certain time, the combat accounts of squadrons, regiments and divisions were checked by high authorities, which adjusted the number of victories in the direction of reduced. Knowing all these nuances, we can reliably relate to the data of the Soviet side, which gradually accustomed the Chinese and Koreans to this order.
        Well, American statistics are such statistics. As they say:
        - Good show off, more expensive than money))))
      2. Alex 241
        +2
        10 January 2014 19: 44
        .................................................. .....
        1. Alex 241
          0
          10 January 2014 19: 47
          ...................................................................
  17. +3
    10 January 2014 13: 43
    “While the outstanding aircraft of the Mikoyan-Gurevich design bureau was making a name for itself in the West, Soviet citizens had almost no idea what the name meant. The F-86 Saber became a symbol in 1950s pop culture American air supremacy - it has been included in movie scripts, magazine covers, and stencils for school lunch boxes. "
    This is how American air superiority was created. With metal school lunch boxes! And we didn't have them! That is why the Saber turned out to be stronger. fellow
  18. Shogun23
    +3
    10 January 2014 13: 56
    On one of the American sites I read that the pilots of the F-80 "Shooting Star" reported 110 or 120 MiGs they shot down, but later their number "slightly decreased" to 4-8 MiGs shot down.
    In general, the Americans initially announced more than 1000 downed MiGs, ours had nothing to answer, officially we were not there.
    1. +2
      10 January 2014 14: 52
      Overstating victories and understating losses is common to all parties to the conflict.
  19. apostrophe
    +5
    10 January 2014 14: 05
    Another Amer’s propaganda, read better the memoirs of Kozhedub and others, there is also a ratio of losses.
    1. rolik
      +2
      10 January 2014 14: 42
      Quote: Apostrophe
      Another Amer propaganda

      More precisely, the real is passed off as the desired)))), which, in principle, is not surprising for these "warriors".
  20. 0
    10 January 2014 14: 46
    Quote: cherkas.oe
    but on Mig-9, yes copies of the German, but Mig-9 did not fight.

    So I had in mind the first developments.
  21. +2
    10 January 2014 14: 55
    The Americans nicknamed the area where MiGs had overwhelming superiority - the MiG Alley.
  22. Vadim-61
    +1
    10 January 2014 15: 36
    A cousin served at the base in the DPRK, was awarded the Order of Lenin and another order from the PRC.

    from his memoirs - "for our pilots who went through the Patriotic War, at first it was difficult to get used to the fact that they were fighting against their former allies."
  23. T-12
    -5
    10 January 2014 16: 07
    The entry was so creepy, well, I think Americans in 51st will have to surrender to Kim. But as we know, the entire Korean Peninsula was plowed by bombers, and especially the north. Question to the authors who bombed North Korea, if the bombers were fun? Lee Xi Qing of course ruined the mess for the Amers pilots, but not so much as the author drew in his enthusiasm.
  24. +1
    10 January 2014 17: 58
    After reading, I remembered for some reason Hamlet, the Danish prince. Yes, yes, the one whose father was killed by pouring poison into his ear.
    So the author of this opus is engaged in a similar matter _ Pours into the ears of readers the deadly poison of lies.
    How's the classic_
    The best lie is a dosed, well-chosen truth
    hi
  25. +4
    10 January 2014 18: 52
    The article leaves a double impression. It really looks like American crafts on the Discovery channel. And all sorts of greenbergs like that, you see the production of low-tech and white coats, he did not see. Here is the Finnish regiment, in whose opinion the airplane is so-so, a log of a log, but the F-86, on which it never once flew, is yes-ah-ah, that’s also a razor.
    I would like to see what the height of American technology would be if a German ice rink would ride across their territory, four years in a row, and have at least one of their lesser living relatives of Greenberg. Aircraft rivals cost each other, both had their own shortcomings, both had their own advantages. Everyone knows how the Korean War ended and the merit of the MiG-15 in this result is enormous, even considering that it was collected by people who did not have white robes.
  26. +2
    10 January 2014 19: 21
    Considering how Americans assess their contribution to the Victory in World War II (Germany was defeated by the Americans with the "help" of the USSR), I absolutely do not believe the "facts" given in the article. We know American "honesty". The article is a bold minus.
  27. +1
    10 January 2014 20: 37
    I RECOMMEND!!! Korean barrier!
    1. rolik
      +1
      11 January 2014 03: 49
      Quote: vm68dm
      Korean barrier!

      Thank you very much for the video, I watched it with pleasure (I haven’t seen it for 5 years).
  28. Alf
    +1
    10 January 2014 21: 35
    The most interesting thing is that everywhere, in all pseudoscientific literature, it is considered good form to declare that the MIG-15 was created by Kurt Tank, just did not manage to bring it to the series, and the bloody Russian barbarians stole this design from him. But, for some reason, nowhere is it said about the German contribution to the creation of Saber.
    So it breaks from the tongue - "They see a speck in someone else's eye, but they don't notice their own log." Pi..os-what to take from them ...
    1. +2
      10 January 2014 22: 53
      Quote: Alf
      But, for some reason, nowhere is it said about the German contribution to the creation of Saber.


      H'm. In my opinion, this is so clear. Plowed on the states and von Braun and Lippisch and V. Messerschmitt, K. Tank, E. Heinkel, A. Busemann, A. Betz, V. Goethert, H. Multhope, H. Schlichting, in the photo captured German designers participants of the project "Paper paperclip "USA
  29. +1
    10 January 2014 23: 00
    And I talked with Jurkki Laukanen, and even the plane helped him roll away. He is already over 80, but he is still flying.
    Here he is on the 1938 Gauntlet fighter of the year.

    http://www.panoramio.com/photo/72028658
    Below Yurkki - the far right, and I'm wearing glasses;)

    http://www.panoramio.com/photo/72069460
    There are still pictures of this year, but did not upload to the Internet.
  30. Alf
    +1
    10 January 2014 23: 14
    Quote: Vadivak
    Quote: Alf
    But, for some reason, nowhere is it said about the German contribution to the creation of Saber.

    Um. In my opinion this is already so clear. Plowed at the states and von Braun and Lippisch and W. Messerschmitt, C. Tank, E. Heinkel, A. Buzeman, A. Betz, V. Getert, X. Multhop, X. Schlichting,

    No one disputes, it is simply considered bad form for mattresses to say that someone helped them and someone did something for them, but in others they really like to poke a finger.
  31. 0
    10 January 2014 23: 27
    Quote: Alf
    The most interesting thing is that everywhere, in all pseudoscientific literature, it is considered good form to declare that the MIG-15 was created by Kurt Tank, just did not manage to bring it to the series, and the bloody Russian barbarians stole this design from him. But, for some reason, nowhere is it said about the German contribution to the creation of Saber.
    So it breaks from the tongue - "They see a speck in someone else's eye, but they don't notice their own log." Pi..os-what to take from them ...

    Saber was developed on the basis of the German Me.P-1101. I read an article in a local magazine. hi
  32. gardener
    0
    11 January 2014 00: 44
    Airfield New building, Okha on Sakhalin.
    583rd Order of the IAP Red Banner - January 1959.
    As part of the regiment and the MiG-15bis with Korean patches in 1953.
  33. gardener
    0
    11 January 2014 00: 46
    In the same place, the same - July 1960
  34. 0
    11 January 2014 08: 17
    A masterpiece! .. What can I say ...
  35. 0
    12 January 2014 00: 01
    No current MIGs distinguished themselves in the skies of Korea, the same La-11s performed well when used properly, for example, Karelin Anatoly Mikhailovich at one night in the light of floodlights heaped up one fortress plus another seven or eight on the Mig-15.
  36. 0
    12 January 2014 03: 47
    Quote: aviator65
    A little clarification. The MiG-9 shown here is just an experiment to install the ASh-3 engine on the MiG-82.


    I will supplement for completeness:

    Excerpt from the Decree of the State Defense Committee on measures for the study and development of German jet technology:

    ... 2. To oblige the People's Commissariat of Industry - Comrade Shakhurin and Comrade Dementyev, the heads of institutes, chief designers and directors of plants to carry out the following work on the study and development of German jet technology - jet gas turbine engines, aircraft liquid propellant engines, jet planes and missile planes:

    a) To the head of the NII-1 NKAP - Comrade Bibikov and Deputy Chief - Comrade Bolkhovitinov, to ensure the study and development of the German liquid-propellant engines Walter, BMW and engines serving as accelerators for take-off aircraft; the study of fuels and oxidizing agents used by the Germans in liquid propellants; the study of the German fighter Messerschmidt-163 with a liquid-propelled jet engine Walther; study of all scientific works and materials of German research organizations and experienced design bureaus in the field of liquid-propellant engines and jet-propelled aircraft with liquid engines;

    b) TsAGI Head - Comrade Shishkin - to ensure the study of all research and experimental materials received from German research institutes and design bureaus in the field of aerodynamics of jet aircraft and jet engines;

    c) The Head of TsIAM - Comrade Polkovsky - to ensure the study of all work on jet gas turbine engines YuMO-004, BMV003, Heinkel; the study of all the research papers and materials on these engines obtained from DVL and the design bureaus of Junkers, Heinkel and BMW;

    d) The head of VIAM - Comrade Tumanov - to ensure the study of the physical and mathematical properties of materials used in German aircraft gas-turbine and liquid-propellant engines, as well as jet aircraft;

    e) The chief of the LII — Comrade Chesalov — to launch flight tests and studies of all received samples of jet aircraft;

    f) The chief designer - Comrade Klimov and the director of the N 26 NKAP plant - Comrade Balandin, to study and master (copy) the German YuMO-004 jet gas turbine engine and organize its serial production;

    g) To the chief designer - Comrade Kolosov and the director of the N 16 NKAP plant - Comrade Lukin, to study and master (copy) the German BMW-003 gas turbine engine and organize its mass production;

    h) to the chief designer, Comrade Yakovlev, to design and build a jet fighter aircraft using the German jet gas turbine engine YuMO-004;

    i) to the chief designer, Comrade Mikoyan, to design and build a twin-engine fighter with the German jet gas turbine engine BMW-003;

    j) To the chief designer, Comrade Lavochkin, to design and build a jet fighter aircraft using the German jet gas turbine engine YuMO-004; ...

    CHAIRMAN OF THE STATE COMMITTEE OF DEFENSE (I. Stalin)
  37. 0
    12 January 2014 14: 19
    14 September 1946 issued the order of the NKAP N 618с:

    "CM by resolution N 2049-846 of September 12 this year:

    1. MAP obliged to ensure release by October 20 of this year. at the plants 21, 31, 301 21 jet aircraft, including:

    a) aircraft A.S. - 15

    b) aircraft S.A.L. - 6

    Besides:

    c) by October 20 of this year. to produce 381 8 aircraft of A.I.M. with jet accelerators. "(2024,107).


    September 14 1946 on the basis of the order of MAP No. 618 at serial plants No. 31, No. 21 and experimental No. 301 urgently organized the production of small series of fighter jets OKB A.S. Yakovlev and OKB S.A. Lavochkin. At the factory number 31 - 20 of Yak-15 aircraft, of which 15 was required to be delivered to the Air Force by October 20, at plants No. 21 and No. 301 - respectively 3 and 5 of I-150 aircraft, of which 20 and 2 were to be ready, respectively, for October 4 381 cars. Also, by the above deadline, factory No.8 was ordered to complete the construction and transfer to the Air Force 250 fighter I-11128 (XNUMX).

    In mid-September, 1946 received data on the results of blowing in the TsAGI pipe T-106 of the Su-9 - Su-11 (2956) understudy model.

    In September, the 1946 MiG-9 was launched into the series on the model of the experimental, transferred to the state. tests. By the end of the year, 10 (559,3) was released.

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned)

“Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev Lev; Ponomarev Ilya; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; Mikhail Kasyanov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"