Military Review

More about problems with the quality of armor Ukrainian BTR-4

57
The dry cargo ship SE PACIFICA with the Ukrainian BTR-4 rejected by Iraq arrived in the port of Oktyabrsk. The port of Oktyabrsk since Soviet times specializes in the export of weapons.


The reason for the refusal of the delivery of the third batch of the BTR-4 was the marriage of the housings of the machines supplied earlier, manufactured in cold rooms of the LKMZ without compliance with the technology. Here is such a New Year's gift presented to the country by domestic defense figures.

The mentioned cracks are not at all “photoshop” and not fiction, as readers can easily see from the presented photos.
The marriage of the corps was allowed by the “Lozovsky Forging-Mechanical Plant” (LKMZ), as was written earlier in the report The situation with the BTR-4.

The question arises - where did the representatives of the state company Ukrspetseksport, KMDB, who were supposed to carry out the author's support of the production, and the plant named after them, looked at it? Malysheva, who could not miss the defects.

In the old days, a similar situation was called wrecking and sabotage.

More about problems with the quality of armor Ukrainian BTR-4




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  1. ReifA
    ReifA 6 January 2014 09: 45
    +10
    In the old days, such a miracle would not have come out of the factory.
    1. makarov
      makarov 6 January 2014 10: 57
      +21
      It left the factory whole. The apparatuses were welded in winter in unheated workshops, everything was within normal limits during acceptance, but when they were roasted in the sun during transportation, it made itself felt in places of stress - everything is natural. That party, which was made in the summer, had no complaints whatsoever. All the result of greed and saving on heat for workers. So let now eat the deed.
      1. vladimirZ
        vladimirZ 6 January 2014 15: 37
        +7
        A clear violation of production technology. Effect managers save on specialists, on providing technical requirements of technology, on control, and the result is disruption of orders, billions of dollars in losses, decline in prestige and loss of the market.
        In the time of I.V. Stalin of such managers in their affairs was recorded as pests and accomplices of the enemy, with all the ensuing consequences.
      2. Sergh
        Sergh 6 January 2014 18: 59
        +7
        Quote: makarov
        . The devices were welded in the winter in unheated workshops, at acceptance everything was within the norm, but when they were fried in the sun

        Stop, stop ..., welded products just have to undergo heat treatment, I already faintly remember, but it seems that it is annealing, not normal, normalization, etc., which affects the joint weld viscosity, stress relieving to change the carbon grain, if not changes memory, then for large designs a special inductor device. Well essno, exposure to time and temperature. This thing is necessary for welding products, whereby it is quickly detected, even NOT when the temperature changes, and during the first or second operation, the structure simply bursts. Very time consuming and expensive operation. (For a long time he worked as a thermist at a large enterprise in the USSR).
        1. Cynic
          Cynic 7 January 2014 16: 01
          0
          Quote: Sergh
          Stop, stop ..., welded products are simply required to undergo heat treatment, I already faintly remember

          This is you, dear Sergh About THAT component parts.
          More precisely about one of the nuances of the technological chain of preparation and manufacture (welding) of a welded structure. And you can even say ordinary.
          The welding process itself _ heating, used inert gas or fluxes, steel grades, currents ...
          In general, it can be said in the words of businessMENA _
          they also have mouse pads !!!
    2. Rustam
      Rustam 6 January 2014 11: 39
      +10
      Well, my friends are Photoshop experts!

      Some figures assured everyone 2 weeks ago that the cracks shown earlier in another photo were photoshop! And they told us about the worldwide conspiracy of the USA and Russia, against Ukrspetsexport.

      If the baron himself posted them (photo), or does he also work for her? Hello to a friend who argued with me that all the BTRs were accepted at the factory (and acceptance certificates are signed at the factory) -Irariks were drunk that they didn’t notice this?

      Yes, special greetings to fellow tankmen-Sapran, Akim, Rebus, KapellaN, Gasta Claus69, Kars, _Camova_, Cristall and other specialists on cracks and world-wide unmaskers of conspiracies against the glorious Ukrainian Criminal Procedure Code

      you don’t need pictures, you need to write books, greetings to your clowns from Urspetsexport, who instead of quickly responding to the problem and solving it, mumbled for a year and said something about the machinations of enemies and competitors.
      1. evil hamster
        evil hamster 6 January 2014 14: 55
        +1
        Oh, you evil, Rustam is not kind, well, think of the cracks, "the contract is being fulfilled in accordance with the plan" (c) laughing
      2. Hug
        Hug 6 January 2014 23: 58
        +1
        - Oh, and you are the vindictive one!
        - No, I’m not vindictive: I’m just evil and I have a good memory! am

        But seriously, it's just very embarrassing: I didn't believe in these cracks until recently. I kept thinking "The intrigues of the imperialists" negative
      3. Cristall
        Cristall 7 January 2014 03: 11
        +1
        Quote: Rustam
        Yes, special greetings to fellow tankmen-Sapran, Akim, Rebus, KapellaN, Gasta Claus69, Kars, _Camova_, Cristall and other specialists on cracks and world-wide unmaskers of conspiracies against the glorious Ukrainian Criminal Procedure Code

        The speech concerned the photograph provided - there is Photoshop.
        On the contrary, I wrote that we should wait until January and see what happened to them.
        A photo with the Iraqi military and an incomprehensible crack is a very real photoshop.
        You are gloating in a hurry to write down all adequate Ukrainians as liars. Although only evidence of our side was required - that is, pictures of the armored personnel carriers themselves made with us. Note - they were not hidden but laid out .. which is very commendable. And you gloat ... ah you glooder)
        Threat and in general the processing technology is violated. Lozovsky was cursed for a long time ... on the blog of the Kharkov plant, the masters knowingly cursed at him-that they were remaking the marriage after him.
    3. Kars
      Kars 6 January 2014 13: 22
      +1
      Quote: ReifA
      In the old days, such a miracle would not have come out of the factory.

      Well, why did the wickedness come out. Yes.
      And on the topic --- what to say went well.
      Quote: svp67
      Some figures assured everyone 2 weeks ago that the cracks shown earlier in another photo are photoshop! And

      Yes, and now I would assure you, do not come the ship back.
      Quote: Rustam
      Hello to a comrade who argued with me that all the BTR were accepted at the factory (and acceptance certificates are signed at the factory) -Irariks were drunk that they didn’t notice this?

      Quote: makarov
      It left the factory whole. Devices were welded in winter in unheated workshops,
      The question is why there was no escort on the ship in order to quickly .. stucco, the cracks are not so huge.
      1. demeen1
        demeen1 6 January 2014 21: 41
        +4
        Indeed, it was possible to think of cracks like this and stick them together.
      2. Refund_SSSR
        Refund_SSSR 9 January 2014 01: 55
        +2
        Quote: Kars
        The question is why there was no escort on the ship in order to quickly .. stucco, the cracks are not so huge.

        And after THIS statement, is there anything else you want to tell about the wonderful Ukrainian "quality" of armored vehicles ??? "Plaster" laughing negative
        And note, the equipment just stood on a dry cargo ship! about any combat exploitation of speech has not yet gone ... but already that ..
        Quote: Kars
        Yes, and now I would assure you, do not come the ship back.

        Those. Are you openly declaring Ukrainian and your fraud personally? laughing It’s like not even a fine, it’s a real time and at least a loss of credibility and image!
        Although you and others like you do not know such words, do they?

        PS Well, for you personally, as a "tanker", a count with a minus, since these are "little things" for you, then apparently the words "impact strength" or "fracture toughness" are empty words for you negative
        PPS Tell me, do you have "Oploty" the same "best tanks in the world" as your armored personnel carriers ??? laughing

        As the saying goes: "Once you've lied ..."
        Well and personally to you a wish: you would be in this armored personnel carrier and "hot spot" for a walk laughing
        1. Kars
          Kars 9 January 2014 02: 15
          +1
          Quote: We refund_SSSR
          And after THIS statement

          Would you like to know the result of your IQ test?
          Quote: We refund_SSSR
          And after THIS statement, is there anything else you want to tell about the wonderful Ukrainian "quality" of armored vehicles ??? "Plaster

          I have something to tell? you are really strange. How could you make such a conclusion? Can you give a logical chain?

          Quote: We refund_SSSR
          Those. Are you openly declaring Ukrainian and your fraud personally?

          how did you come to this conclusion? I say that photos with cracks are fake, how can you blame me for fraud? for what?
          Quote: We refund_SSSR
          It's not even a fine, it's a real time

          Who is the term? What article?
          Quote: We refund_SSSR
          at least loss of credibility and image!

          The loss of authority and image is only an official recognition of this incident, but it does not exist. And all the ASSUMPTIONS that you are building are not worth anything, and in principle Ukrspetsexport can file a civil lawsuit against you for libel. And you will be justified by referring to a photo from an Internet) )))
          Quote: We refund_SSSR
          Well, for you personally, as a "tanker", a count with a minus, since for you these are "trifles
          At least two minuses, I'll put you a plus for the fun.


          Quote: We refund_SSSR
          then apparently the words "fracture toughness" are empty for you

          Fracture toughness (\ mathbf {K} _c)
          Characterization of the ability of a material to resist the onset of motion and the development of cracks under mechanical and other influences.
          And? Campaign empty sound is you.
          Quote: We refund_SSSR
          PPS Tell me, do you have "Oploty" the same "best tanks in the world" as your armored personnel carriers ???

          Of course the best.
          Quote: We refund_SSSR
          As the saying goes: "Once you've lied ..."
          look who's Talking)))

          Quote: We refund_SSSR
          PPS

          Then what’s the matter to you? Do you think there was no marriage in the USSR? Even the Nuclear-powered cruisers broke in half)) so I had to cut through the bottom mechanisms that didn’t require repair during the whole operation period, and this is after six months)))
          1. Refund_SSSR
            Refund_SSSR 9 January 2014 10: 19
            -1
            Quote: Kars
            Would you like to know the result of your IQ test?

            Quote: Kars
            I have something to tell? you are really strange. How could you make such a conclusion? Can you give a logical chain?

            And wouldn’t you go a respected forest?
            After all your sayings, which I read in this thread, I somehow do not want to enter into dialogue with you at all.
            You are zero, noisy zero.
            1. Kars
              Kars 9 January 2014 14: 46
              +1
              Quote: We refund_SSSR
              And wouldn’t you go a respected forest?

              This is just an excellent answer to the question about the level of intelligence, and almost does not require any additional clarifications. Everything becomes obvious.
              Quote: We refund_SSSR
              You are zero, noisy zero

              Well, what can I say if you managed it from the first comment, then what remains for you. Would you be smarter would not write anything at all)) you would calmly return the USSR to yourself
        2. Kars
          Kars 9 January 2014 02: 17
          +1
          Quote: We refund_SSSR
          Well and personally to you a wish: you would be in this armored personnel carrier and "hot spot" for a walk

          )))))))))))))))

          Kars UA January 7, 2014 14:24 | More about problems with the quality of armor of Ukrainian BTR-4
          Quote: MIKHAN
          they drag along all Western media .. The point can I explain to you ..?
          Can I link to an article on Inosmi? Is there a defense there or someone else?
          Quote: MIKHAN
          I am sure that these machines with arms and legs would be bought ..
          I personally wouldn’t buy it. And against that, if they don’t sell, they would be put into service with the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

          http://topwar.ru/38072-esche-o-problemah-s-kachestvom-broni-ukrainskih-btr-4.htm
          l # comment-id-1829969
  2. svp67
    svp67 6 January 2014 09: 53
    +4
    I hope now Ukrainian opponents will not prove that this is also Photoshop ...
  3. Arhj
    Arhj 6 January 2014 10: 09
    +5
    It is hard to believe that such a marriage could not have been noticed at the factory when the batch was produced. I just can’t understand - this is unprofessionalism or stupidity. Given the current competition in the armaments market, this cannot be done with a client. Or they believed that Iraq, for its money and out of love for Ukraine, would close its eyes to all the shortcomings.
    1. svp67
      svp67 6 January 2014 10: 16
      +9
      Quote: Arhj
      It is hard to believe that such a marriage could not be noticed at the factory when the batch

      Based on these images, it can be assumed that the grade of armor steel is incorrect or obvious and severe violations of welding technology - pay attention to the cracks coming from the joints of the armored plates by welding ... In any case, this is a manufacturing defect and it will hit the image and export very much the capabilities of the Malyshev plant ...
      1. Kars
        Kars 6 January 2014 13: 25
        +1
        Quote: svp67
        this is a manufacturing defect and it will hit the image very much

        By the way, they don’t really hit. You look at how now cars are regularly returned to plants for repair. And very large plants. Ford Mitsubishi and so on. Problems are and are everywhere.
        1. Gronsky
          Gronsky 6 January 2014 18: 13
          +1
          Quote: Kars
          You look at how now cars are regularly returned to factories for repair. And very large plants. Ford Mitsubishi, etc. There are problems and are everywhere.

          Yeah, only their bodies at the seams do not fall apart. Because for decent firms, welding technology is not something prohibitively difficult and unattainable.
          And then, of course, they won’t hit, they just won’t buy, that's all.
        2. svp67
          svp67 6 January 2014 20: 47
          +1
          Quote: Kars
          By the way, not really hit

          Of course I understand your patriotism, but military equipment is somewhat different, and in this case it is now necessary to check the armor altogether, I'm afraid that it will no longer meet the requirements ...
          1. Kars
            Kars 6 January 2014 20: 50
            +1
            Quote: svp67
            but military equipment is a little different

            One to one. And similar misadventures, with little desire, can be found in any country. And even with more technological products. For fun, you can recall the thorny path of the most expensive tank of his Leclerc period in the Middle East. Yes and the T-90 in India also did not take root smoothly .
            Quote: svp67
            I'm afraid that she will no longer meet the requirements ...

            Don’t be afraid.
            1. svp67
              svp67 6 January 2014 21: 00
              0
              Quote: Kars
              And the T-90 in India, too, did not take root smoothly.
              Normally, he took root there and his armor does not crack ...
              Quote: Kars
              Don’t be afraid.

              Yes, you don’t worry about me, it’s something I would support you, and I have many completely different reasons for the unrest and the problems of the Ukrainian military-industrial complex to occupy an honorable millionth first place.
              1. Kars
                Kars 6 January 2014 21: 05
                +2
                Quote: svp67
                Normally, he took root there and his armor does not crack

                Well, I would be surprised if the crack protection armor started cracking. And it took root heavily, engines, electronics and so on burned.
                Quote: svp67
                Yeah you don't worry about me

                Well, how can it be that it’s not that worrying, you’re worried.

                Quote: svp67
                the problems of the Ukrainian military-industrial complex occupy an honorable millionth first place.

                What a horror, what do you have so much more than a million.)))
                1. Kars
                  Kars 6 January 2014 21: 15
                  +2
                  In the meantime, expensive Russian-made ammunition was ordered. But the Invar tank guided missiles produced in Russia were found to be unusable and were sent back to Russia. Due to faulty assembly, they were found to be defective.

                  http://pro-tank.ru/blog/769-contract-to-supply-indias-main-battle-tanks-t90s

                  for fun

                  as the newspaper Business Standard reports - it received full information after interviewing officials who were implementing this contract; and characterizes the current situation as "Russian arrogance" against the background of "Indian submission".

                  Russia behaves in the same way under other contracts - and as an example, the overstatement of the price for the supply of the aircraft carrier "Gorshkov" is cited, and the situation with the T-90 contract strikes at the Indian defense. The Russian Embassy in India ignored the request for an explanation of the situation on this issue.
                2. svp67
                  svp67 6 January 2014 21: 25
                  +2
                  Quote: Kars
                  And it took root heavily, engines, electronics and so on burned.
                  Well, less than on the T64 ... That's where the tankers then had to repent ...
                  Quote: Kars
                  Well, how can it be that it’s not that worrying, you’re worried.
                  Oh well, you don’t need to raise your importance SO, alas, the Malyshev plant now poses no threat to UVZ in terms of foreign sales, and after that, it will take a very long time to work on restoring the image.
                  Quote: Kars
                  What a horror, what do you have so much more than a million.)))

                  Yes, thank God much less, it's just a pre-reserved number for this problem ...
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 6 January 2014 21: 32
                    +2
                    Quote: svp67
                    Well, yes, less than on the T64

                    Well, what do you compare the first new generation tank of new generation with the 17 modification of the T-72
                    Quote: svp67
                    That's where the tankers then had to repent ...

                    Yes, tankers are generally looming. That’s what I never wanted to become a tanker. But I want to knock out a tank.
                    Quote: svp67
                    Yes, thank God much less, it's just a pre-reserved number for this problem ...

                    Well, if you reserve such numbers, then there is a reason.
                    1. svp67
                      svp67 6 January 2014 22: 09
                      0
                      Quote: Kars
                      Well, what do you compare the first new generation tank of new generation with the 17 modification of the T-72

                      What "euromukha" bit you today. All your attempts to prove that when the armored personnel carrier with obvious defects are returned - "a good mine, with a bad game" ... You just have to go through it and think about how to live on ..
                      Quote: Kars
                      Well, if you reserve such numbers, then there is a reason.
                      With what is going on there now, it will not be superfluous ...
                      1. Kars
                        Kars 6 January 2014 22: 24
                        +1
                        Quote: svp67
                        What "euromukha" bit you today.

                        And where does the euro then?
                        Colonel General Alexander Postnikov, Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Ground Forces, seems to have quarreled the Russian Ministry of Defense and Rosoboronexport to death. During his speech on March 15 at the Federation Council, Commander Postnikov very scornfully spoke about the combat qualities of the main Russian battle tank T-90 Vladimir, which, in his words, “is actually the 17th modification of the Soviet T-72, which was produced since 1973.

                        Quote: svp67
                        All your attempts to prove that when the armored personnel carrier with obvious defects is returned - "a good mine, with a bad game."

                        And you suggest sprinkling ash on your head. I showed that this is not such a rare situation, as those who think little are interested in the topic of weapons and their sale in general.
                        Quote: svp67
                        You just need to survive and think about how to live on.

                        The shells are brewed at another factory.
                        Quote: svp67
                        With what is going on there now, it will not be superfluous ...
                        And what do we mean? Our problems in your classification should go a million second place, etc.)))))


                        It is not clear why you are silent on the Ingvars.

                        Quote: Kars
                        In the meantime, expensive Russian-made ammunition was ordered. But the Invar tank guided missiles produced in Russia were found to be unusable and were sent back to Russia. Due to faulty assembly, they were found to be defective.
                        http://pro-tank.ru/blog/769-contract-to-supply-indias-main-battle-tanks-t90s
                      2. svp67
                        svp67 7 January 2014 10: 41
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        But the Invar tank guided missiles produced in Russia were found to be unusable and were sent back to Russia.

                        You know very interesting information and most importantly how it characterizes Russia, really like PROCOL. But only when you look at the date of this material
                        Author: pro-tank.ru
                        04.12.2011 PM10:50
                        and suddenly you find out that in 2012 году
                        Credible sources report that contracts have been concluded or are being prepared for the purchase of 25000 Invar tank guided missiles (TOUR) and 66000 armor-piercing fired sub-caliber projectiles (BOPS) for T-90S tanks,
                        and read in the same Author:
                        pro-tank.ru 22.10.2012 PM17:03
                        All in all, the Indian Ministry of Defense plans to buy 200 BrahMos for Su-30MKI fighters and ten thousand Invar missiles for India's T-90 tanks. India plans to spend on the purchase of Invar anti-tank missiles 20 billion rupees... Russia will supply ten thousand purchased missiles, and then it is planned to conclude an agreement on licensed production in India of another 15 thousand Invar.
                        Somehow you calm down and understand that something is wrong here ...
                      3. The comment was deleted.
                      4. Kars
                        Kars 7 January 2014 12: 34
                        +1
                        Quote: svp67
                        But only when you look at the date of this material

                        And where is India Devata? If she already bought tanks? They returned and hopes that the new ones will do better.
                        Quote: svp67
                        Somehow you calm down and understand that something is wrong here ...

                        Well yes
                        Quote: Kars
                        k reports the newspaper Business Standard - she received full information after interviewing officials who were involved in the implementation of this contract; and characterizes the current situation as "Russian arrogance" on the background "Indian humility".

                        top to bottom.
                        and then we read the article
                        Russia loses India
                        July 24 2013
                        http://topwar.ru/31154-rossiya-teryaet-indiyu.html
                      5. svp67
                        svp67 7 January 2014 12: 56
                        +1
                        Quote: Kars
                        And where is the India Devata?

                        How where, for example, turn to Ukraine. Your "Kombat" is the native "brother" of our "Invars", and it is quite possible to use them on our T90s, after some alteration ... You also have new BPSs, but India is in no hurry to come to you, perhaps realizing that Ukraine's capabilities are several times lower than Russia's ...
                        Quote: Kars
                        and then we read the article
                        Russia loses India
                        Business is alive and does not tolerate stagnation, so everything is vital here, the main thing is that the article "Ukraine finds India" does not appear
                      6. Kars
                        Kars 7 January 2014 13: 18
                        +2
                        Quote: svp67
                        How where, for example, turn to Ukraine. Your "Kombat" is a native "brother" of our "Invars", and they can be used on our T90s, after some alteration,

                        Oh well? And the Russian Federation will not roll out a claim for violations of licensing agreements? Yes, and a lot of things will change, and the Indians have already riveted a lot of T-90s. So it's expensive.
                        Quote: svp67
                        You also have new BPSs,

                        So they do not fit obsolete guns and AZ T-90S, even the Russian Federation says that for the T-72B3 / T-90MS type you make a new AZ so that shells with a larger extension can be used.
                        Quote: svp67
                        maybe understanding that the capabilities of Ukraine
                        Well, he buys aviation missiles in Ukraine, in Artemovsk))

                        Quote: svp67
                        The main thing is that the article "Ukraine finds India" does not appear

                        Of course, it’s better to appear (oh already, I’m sorry) the United States receives contracts with India, Israel. And Ukraine will receive its contracts from India.
                      7. svp67
                        svp67 7 January 2014 13: 46
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        Of course, it’s better to appear (oh already, I’m sorry) the United States receives contracts with India, Israel. And Ukraine will receive its contracts from India.

                        Yes, for God's sake, the market is big - there is enough money for everyone, you look and we will fall ...
                      8. Kars
                        Kars 7 January 2014 13: 51
                        +2
                        Quote: svp67
                        Yes for God's sake, the market is big

                        )))))))))))
                        Quote: svp67
                        point, so that the article does not appear "Ukraine finds India "
                      9. svp67
                        svp67 7 January 2014 13: 57
                        +2
                        Yes, I all wanted to get to the bottom of what you are so offended. Do not worry, and on your street someday a truck with sugar will roll over ...
                      10. Kars
                        Kars 7 January 2014 14: 25
                        +3
                        Quote: svp67
                        Yes, I all wanted to get to the bottom, what are you so offended

                        Are you so interesting to me?
                        And why did you decide that I was offended, and not you too high an opinion about yourself?
                        Quote: svp67
                        Do not worry, and on your street someday a truck with sugar will roll over ...
                        You wish me diabetes and caries))))
                      11. svp67
                        svp67 8 January 2014 09: 58
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        And why did you decide that I was offended, and not you too high an opinion about yourself?

                        Well, in the light of the past holiday, apparently I need to say THANKS for pointing out my flaw repeat
                        Quote: Kars
                        You wish me diabetes and caries))))
                        Well, why so sad, I wish all of Ukraine and personally to you, a sweet life ... laughing
                      12. Kars
                        Kars 8 January 2014 12: 43
                        +2
                        Quote: svp67
                        Well, in the light of the past holiday, apparently I need to say THANKS for pointing out my flaw

                        Not necessarily.
                        Quote: svp67
                        Well, why so sad, I wish all of Ukraine and personally to you, a sweet life ...

                        Well, a sugar truck for all of Ukraine is not enough for a sweet life, for me personally a lot, and even from the ground / asphalt))) so something like that constructing phrases does not give out sincerity of wishes.
                      13. svp67
                        svp67 8 January 2014 18: 18
                        +2
                        Quote: Kars
                        from the ground / asphalt))) so something like that building phrases does not give out sincerity of wishes.

                        Come on, you suspect Russia of something, of which you should not suspect. Ukraine is not enough truck with sugar? Well, we have given you 15 dollars and you are all not happy ...
                      14. Kars
                        Kars 8 January 2014 18: 30
                        +1
                        Quote: svp67
                        Come on, you suspect Russia

                        Why do you associate yourself with the Russian Federation?
                        From the moment of the truck and the wishes about the appearance of the article, it is about personalities. Not countries.
                        Quote: svp67
                        Well, we have given you 15 dollars and you are all not happy ...

                        I personally didn’t get anything. And to give it at 5 percent, and even with the purchase of Eurobonds - these are gifts except in a Jewish family))
                        --and now kids buy presents
                        Jewish Santa Claus shouted at the matinee.

                        and other events only show that obstacles to trade and interaction between the Russian Federation and Ukraine were artificially created, you know which side.
                      15. svp67
                        svp67 8 January 2014 19: 31
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        Why do you associate yourself with the Russian Federation?
                        Well, I'm actually a citizen of this country, so the Russian Federation is Me, I am the Russian Federation ...
                        Quote: Kars
                        I personally didn’t get anything. And to give it at 5 percent, and even with the purchase of Eurobonds - these are gifts except in a Jewish family))

                        Yes, what do you say ... and you did not have to take a loan from any Ukrainian bank? I assure you that if you are offered to take it at 5%, take it and don’t think about it, since inflation is more ...
                        Quote: Kars
                        and other events only show that obstacles to trade and interaction between the Russian Federation and Ukraine were artificially created, you know which side.
                        Well, what can you say, if your side does not feel any guilt in that development of the situation, then explaining something is like "throwing peas at the wall ..."
                      16. Kars
                        Kars 8 January 2014 19: 45
                        +1
                        Quote: svp67
                        Well, I'm actually a citizen of this country, so the Russian Federation is Me, I am the Russian Federation ...

                        Lucky you are not a citizen of Honduras (joke)
                        Quote: svp67
                        Yes, what do you say ... and you did not have to take a loan from any Ukrainian bank?

                        I personally do not, I'm not so rich that I would sponsor banks.
                        Quote: svp67
                        I assure you that if you are offered to take it at 5%
                        Well, why do you compare commercial banks and small-scale lending with interstate loans.

                        Quote: svp67
                        Well, what can I say if your side does not feel any fault for that development of the situation

                        And why should we feel guilty? That someone found a poisonous substance in sweets, and then does not want to expose it? Or that palm oil in cheese is closer to me. Which then was re-exported to Hungary and passed EU certification and did not find vegetable fats there?
                      17. svp67
                        svp67 8 January 2014 19: 48
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        Well, why do you compare commercial banks and small-scale lending with interstate loans.
                        The principle is one. And if in your country inflation, even officially, is above 5%, then I'm sorry to give someone a loan at 5%, this is to forgive him part of the debt in advance ...
                      18. sapran
                        sapran 8 January 2014 19: 59
                        0
                        stupidity ... since the loan is not in national currency, to put it mildly. in addition, it is a "quick" loan. You need to give it to the ambulance,
                        Putin clearly threw a "stranglehold on Yanukovych's balls, so he is on top." And we, with such a loan, are clearly in ... opera. And by the way, by the way, they will make us extreme without asking ...
                      19. svp67
                        svp67 8 January 2014 20: 17
                        +1
                        Quote: sapran
                        stupidity ... since the loan is not in national currency, to put it mildly. in addition, it is a "quick" loan. You need to give it to the ambulance,
                        Putin clearly threw a "stranglehold on Yanukovych's balls, so he is on top." And we, with such a loan, are clearly in ... opera. And by the way, by the way, they will make us extreme without asking ...

                        How strange you look at things. And the fact that without this loan, not to Yanukovych, but to the whole of Ukraine, the ICF would have "ripped off eggs" to pay off debts, to somehow sort out the situation ... What are you not happy with? The fact that loans should be given? So excuse this life. The Russian Federation has been "struggling" to pay off the debts of the USSR, but they did not ask you for them. Why were you silent at that moment? By the way, it is not too late and now to take part in this process, debts for "Lend-Lease" have not yet been paid to the end ...
                      20. Kars
                        Kars 8 January 2014 20: 24
                        +2
                        Quote: svp67
                        What loans should be given?

                        So this is not a gift?
                        Quote: svp67
                        ... The Russian Federation has been "struggling" to pay off the debts of the USSR, but they did not ask you for them.

                        lacked, you don’t tell me where the state property of the USSR went abroad. where are the USSR Sberbank denges, gold and reserve reserve?
                        Quote: svp67
                        all over Ukraine ICF would "tear off eggs"

                        Well, yes, after they helped with the price of gas for three years, they arranged a trade war, they threw Yanyka at the Kharkov agreements.
                3. svp67
                  svp67 8 January 2014 19: 51
                  0
                  Quote: Kars
                  Lucky you are not a citizen of Honduras (joke)
                  Something I began to misunderstand, do you think that a person born in the state of Honduras should already feel from birth, at least some inconvenience from this, or a sense of shame? Yes, you, my friend Chauvinist. Read the history of the state of Honduras - they have something to be proud of with their flag and country.
                4. svp67
                  svp67 8 January 2014 19: 59
                  +1
                  Quote: Kars
                  And why should we feel guilty? That someone found a poisonous substance in sweets, and then does not want to expose it? Or that palm oil in cheese is closer to me. Which then was re-exported to Hungary and passed EU certification and did not find vegetable fats there?

                  I am not a specialist of Rospotrebnadzor, and honestly, I would be more happy if this organization looked more at the products of our enterprises, but the fact that in ANY of the batches of products of your factories, I can quite admit that ... to react, one could simply indicate to the enterprise, but Onishchenko, considered himself, once again "holier than the Pope" ... for which, by the way, he paid with a place and now sits where he cannot throw out such "tricks" ... And if it comes to that, then you have your own "political Onishchenko" "above the roof" ...
                5. svp67
                  svp67 8 January 2014 20: 00
                  0
                  Quote: Kars
                  And why should we feel guilty?
                  That is, what happened is not your fault?
                6. Kars
                  Kars 8 January 2014 20: 09
                  +2
                  Quote: svp67
                  That is, what happened is not your fault?

                  The fact that the Russian Federation announced .. not declared .. a trade war?
                  Quote: svp67
                  SOMETHING from the batches of products of your factories that I could find quite admit ..

                  And I don’t, because I personally engaged in the Perefasov cheese of the Piryatinsky factory returned to the Russian Federation to resell it.
                  Quote: svp67
                  but Onishchenko, considered himself, once again "holier than the Pope."

                  Are you so naive and consider Onishchenko an independent figure?
                  Quote: svp67
                  any inconvenience from this or a feeling of shame?

                  It was strange that he specially wrote a joke in brackets.

                  Quote: svp67
                  The principle is one.

                  Yes, only the rates are different. The IMF and the EBRD can give loans at a lower interest rate. Zaporozhye received a similar loan to modernize water treatment - there is generally a percentage of about 1%
                  Quote: svp67
                  Yes you, my friend Chauvinist
                  Racist: Nationalist and not particularly shy.
                  Quote: svp67
                  then you have your own "political Onishchenko" "above the roof" ..

                  Can I have a couple of surnames? And products of the Russian Federation that are forbidden for import without reason?
                  Quote: sapran
                  Utin clearly threw a "stranglehold on Yanukovych's balls, so he is on a horse
                  How will he present Eurobonds to early repayment? X can only be sold to anyone else.

                  Quote: svp67
                  Read the history of the state of Honduras
                  How to interrupt. In the immediate (and distant) plans to visit these blessed lands.
                7. svp67
                  svp67 8 January 2014 20: 30
                  0
                  Quote: Kars
                  The fact that the Russian Federation announced .. not declared .. a trade war?
                  "Every action gives rise to opposition ..."
                  Quote: Kars
                  Are you so naive and consider Onishchenko an independent figure?

                  You have some strange ideas about Russia, here many officials are completely independent, within the framework of their duties, however, like Onishchenko, sometimes they try to push this framework and climb into something other than their own field ... As a result, they "leave" ...
                8. Kars
                  Kars 8 January 2014 20: 36
                  +2
                  Quote: svp67
                  "Every action gives rise to opposition ..."

                  What is such an action by Ukraine? What Ukraine has banned from importing? Where has it refused to cooperate? Maybe the GTS did not want to sell it?
                  Quote: svp67
                  Do you have any strange ideas about Russia,

                  Of course. Putin said gas at 280. Gazprom answered yes, although it seems to be considered a joint-stock company.
                  Quote: svp67
                  ..As a result, they "leave" ...
                  Of course. You can’t always sit in one place forever. Or Onishchenko left the article?

                  Quote: svp67
                  , You do not understand all the jokes.
                  Well, don’t know, don’t know - especially where specifically signed.
                9. svp67
                  svp67 8 January 2014 20: 41
                  0
                  Quote: Kars
                  What is such an action by Ukraine? What Ukraine has banned from importing? Where has it refused to cooperate? Maybe the GTS did not want to sell it?
                  Well, for example, the fact that from underground storage facilities on the territory of Ukraine "sometimes", every year, a certain amount of gas, our gas, which we MUST supply to the West disappears, so here ... everyone has accumulated enough resentment, everything is simply necessary do not proceed from them, but from something else, otherwise nothing good will be for us not for you ...
                10. Kars
                  Kars 8 January 2014 20: 54
                  +2
                  Quote: svp67
                  sometimes ", every year,

                  Bring evidence? Where are the lawsuits? So it’s better not to mix it up.
                  How much by the way in 2011, for example, disappeared?
                  Quote: svp67
                  so here ... resentment

                  Well, you have to invent them.
                  Quote: svp67
                  1) no one forces anyone to take a loan

                  Did Russia give a loan? She bought Eurobonds, which are on free sale.
                  Quote: svp67
                  3) in the case of states, the IMF gives money to cover the budget deficit

                  what?
                11. svp67
                  svp67 8 January 2014 21: 02
                  0
                  Quote: Kars
                  How much by the way in 2011, for example, disappeared?


                  According to Denis Sakva, since Ukraine has already taken a significant amount of gas from underground storages (gas reserves in the storages amounted to about 16 billion cubic meters at the end of 2011 compared to 22,3 billion cubic meters at the end of 2010), further gas pumping out may be technically impossible, especially in February.

                  Data from your site http://ubr.ua/market/industrial/apasy-gaza-v-ukrainskih-hranilishah-zakanchivaut


                  sia-119299

                  So, you don’t have to invent anything. Kars is in any conflict, both sides are to blame for 95%, and honestly I’m not particularly pleased that you, like an adult, do not understand this ...
                12. Kars
                  Kars 8 January 2014 21: 10
                  +1
                  Quote: svp67
                  http://ubr.ua/market/industrial/apasy-gaza-v-ukrainskih-hranilishah-zakanchivaut



                  sia-119299


                  And where is the theft / disappearance of gas? Where is the suit?
                  Quote: svp67
                  So, you don’t have to invent anything

                  Well, you invented something from scratch


                  here is the full text

                  Since Ukraine has already taken a significant amount of gas from underground storage, in February it will be necessary to significantly increase gas imports. This was in a comment by UBR.UA senior analyst at Dragon Capital Denis Sakva.

                  "Based on the planned volume of gas imports by Naftogaz of Ukraine, gas consumption in the country should be 6,9-7,4 billion cubic meters in January and 6,8-7,1 billion cubic meters in February, which is an underestimated forecast, since last year, these indicators were 8,3 billion cubic meters and 8,2 billion cubic meters (in 2010 - 9,0 billion cubic meters and 7,5 billion cubic meters), respectively, "he says.

                  According to Denis Sakva, since Ukraine has already taken a significant amount of gas from underground storages (gas reserves in the storages amounted to about 16 billion cubic meters at the end of 2011 compared to 22,3 billion cubic meters at the end of 2010), further gas pumping out may be technically impossible, especially in February.

                  "Thus, the volume of imports planned for January is realistic, but it will be significantly increased in February (up to 5 billion cubic meters)," the expert predicts.

                  As a reminder, NJSC Naftogaz Ukrainy plans to import 2,1-2,5 bcm of Russian gas in January and 3-2,5 bcm in February, as well as take an additional 2,8 bcm from underground storage facilities this year. month and 3 billion m3 in February, depending on weather conditions.


                  What confused you here?
                  Quote: svp67
                  95% are guilty of both sides, and honestly I’m not particularly pleased that you, like an adult, do not understand this.

                  give yourself 5% and that's the answer.
                13. Kars
                  Kars 8 January 2014 21: 30
                  +1
                  Quote: svp67
                  Well, for example, the fact that from underground storage facilities on the territory of Ukraine "sometimes", every year, a n-th amount of gas, our gas, disappears

                  by the way about .. OUR ..

                  Gazprom believes that 25 billion cubic meters of natural gas should be pumped into the UGS, while Naftogaz assures that 20 billion cubic meters will be enough. Gazprom even intends to issue a loan to purchase additional gas reserves, but the Ukrainian side does not agree to do so.
                  In the winter of 2011-2012, Gazprom had problems with gas supplies to Europe due to the fact that Naftogaz refused to store additional volumes of fuel in its UGS. However, in July of this year, two gas companies were able to agree. Gazmprobank granted Naftogaz a loan in the amount of $ 2 billion, for which Naftogaz had to purchase reserve gas in order to sell it to European consumers in the next heating period and receive additional income.
                  http://www.newsvm.com/ukraina-otkazyvaetsya-zapolnyat-podzemnye-gazoxranilishha/


                  what doesn’t look like gas in Ukraine’s gas storage facilities YOUR
    2. svp67
      svp67 8 January 2014 20: 31
      0
      Quote: Kars
      It was strange that he specially wrote a joke in brackets.
      let's say 1: 1, you do not understand all the jokes ...
    3. svp67
      svp67 8 January 2014 20: 35
      0
      Quote: Kars
      Yes, only the rates are different. The IMF and the EBRD can give loans at a lower interest rate. Zaporozhye received a similar loan to modernize water treatment - there is generally a percentage of about 1%
      1) no one forces anyone to take a loan.
      2) if someone decided to take a loan, the conditions are determined by the one who gives the money.
      3) in the case of states, the IMF gives money to cover the budget deficit, otherwise the country will be in a big ass. need a loan or not, the country decides (see paragraph 1)
  4. Corsair
    Corsair 7 January 2014 12: 48
    0
    Quote: Kars
    The shells are brewed at another factory.
    Question:
    - for which contracts?
    Let me explain - the reputation of Ukraine is seriously "tarnished" as a result of an attempt to involve Iraq in an open marriage.
    Although VO still voiced timid attempts to whitewash the Ukrainian supplier, but the point is being made in this epic it will be put not in favor of manufacturers ...
    At least the reaction of official structures has not yet followed, although it would have been necessary to "move", because the incident turns into not only financial losses, but also the likelihood (and not a small) loss of confidence in suppliers from Ukraine in general ... In the meantime, the "excuse" sounds. about New Year's holidays.

    Who will cooperate with a country leading a dishonest game in the market ...
  5. Kars
    Kars 7 January 2014 13: 21
    +1
    Quote: Corsair
    Who will cooperate with a country leading a dishonest game in the market ...

    And who leads an honest game in this market))))))) Show?
    Quote: Corsair
    At least, there has not yet been a reaction from official structures, although

    First show the reaction of the official structures of Iraq?
    Quote: Corsair
    Although on VO e

    ))) Well, yes, potential buyers of military equipment are sitting on VO))))))
  6. Corsair
    Corsair 7 January 2014 13: 34
    0
    Quote: Kars
    First show the reaction of the official structures of Iraq?

    It is unloaded at your port. Nothing is more eloquent about the reaction of official Iraq and no one will say ...
    Quote: Kars
    ))) Well, yes, potential buyers of military equipment are sitting on VO))))))

    No, your compatriots, hoping to the last hope for confirmation of the ORDER of the Ukrainian side and Iraq’s WRONG ... And it seems in vain.
    Quote: Kars
    And who leads an honest game in this market))))))) Show?

    Well, well, keep up the good work and see how Ukraine will be "kicked out" of this segment of international trade ...
    If you don’t repent, and don’t recognize the "stocks", then success, in attempts to lose a significant source of replenishment of the treasury ...
  7. Kars
    Kars 7 January 2014 13: 49
    +1
    Quote: Corsair
    It is unloaded at your port. Nothing is more eloquent about the reaction of official Iraq and no one will say ...

    So you are not able to provide the official reaction of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs / Defense of the Republic of Iraq. So we will write down.
    Quote: Corsair
    No, your compatriots, hoping to the last hope for confirmation of the ORDER of the Ukrainian side and Iraq’s WRONG ... And it seems in vain.

    Why do they do this at VO? For compatriots there are more loyal sites. Yes, and compatriots are not potential buyers.
    Quote: Corsair
    Well, well, keep up the good work, and see how Ukraine is "kicked out" of this segment of international trade.

    somehow we get out. The Russian Federation looks the Indians in the eye after a wild divorce with Admiral Gorshkov))) or the Fritz with whom they could not sell their super leopard to their NATO allies without bribes))
    Quote: Corsair
    If you do not repent and do not recognize the "jambs"
    and what is going on over you or something? or are you aware of what is solved there in Iraq?)) By the way, one more time you proved your phenomenal thinking abilities))))
  8. Corsair
    Corsair 7 January 2014 13: 55
    +1
    Quote: Kars
    By the way, one more time you have proved your phenomenal mental abilities))))

    Have you sniffed dichloroethane in the morning?
    You babble like a dumbass ...
  9. Kars
    Kars 7 January 2014 14: 26
    +1
    Quote: Corsair
    Have you sniffed dichloroethane in the morning?
    You babble like a dumbass.

    and that dichloroethane has some kind of not such properties?

    and babble you. and I just proved it. kaitsa before the clown somehow you see le it is necessary, and even on the pages IN)))
  10. Corsair
    Corsair 7 January 2014 14: 48
    0
    Dichloroethane (1, 2-dichloroethane, ethylene chloride) ClCH2CH2Cl is a colorless liquid with a smell resembling chloroform.
    Quote: Kars
    and that dichloroethane has some kind of not such properties?

    Stop writing comments in toxic fumes ...
  11. Kars
    Kars 7 January 2014 14: 54
    +1
    Quote: Corsair
    Dichloroethane

    I know what it is. And I have it. But I have never noticed any strange properties behind it. By the way, now I use Revel's glue. Yes, and I did not glue it again this year.

    Quote: Corsair
    stop writing comments in toxic fumes ...

    it’s necessary that it turns out to be you even in toxic frenzy)) you can allow yourself to be different)))
    quickly you have nothing to say on the topic)))
    Quote: Kars
    somehow we get out. The Russian Federation looks the Indians in the eye after a wild divorce with Admiral Gorshkov))) or the Fritz with whom they could not sell their super leopard to their NATO allies without bribes))
    Quote: Corsair
    If you don’t repent, and don’t recognize the "jambs" and what is the problem above you or what? Or are you aware of what is being decided there in Iraq?)) On the other hand, once again you proved your phenomenal thinking abilities))))

    By the way, even very phenomenal)))
  12. Corsair
    Corsair 7 January 2014 14: 59
    0
    Quote: Kars
    I proved it elementary. Kaitsa before a clown

    Elementary - unicellular, go to church repent, today is just right.

    Merry Christmas!
  13. Kars
    Kars 7 January 2014 15: 02
    +1
    Quote: Corsair
    Elementary - unicellular, go to church repent, today is just right.

    I? For BTR-4?) Well, you and .. clever .. even to compare with unicellulars you don’t want to, still offend))

    and in fact I'm not religious))))
  14. Corsair
    Corsair 7 January 2014 15: 05
    +1
    Quote: Kars
    and in fact I'm not religious))))

    By FACT, you are NEVER.
    Quote: Kars
    Me for the BTR-4?

    For his rotten essence ...
    The Lord is merciful, he will forgive and enlighten ...
  15. Kars
    Kars 7 January 2014 15: 11
    +1
    Quote: Corsair
    By FACT, you are NEVER.

    It is strange that you turn your mind-boggling comments to this, and with such persistence.
    so the campaign you feel that you are lower than I. and if I'm not, it’s even hard to imagine who you are)))
  16. Corsair
    Corsair 7 January 2014 15: 22
    0
    Quote: Kars
    It is strange that you turn your mind-boggling comments to this, and with such persistence.

    If others are squeamish about you, then I have to put you in your place.

    But apparently time is wasted in vain.
    Due to your complete lack of moral and ethical principles, an attempt to correct Humpback is futile.

    Well, stay so de *** ohm, which you are.
  17. Kars
    Kars 7 January 2014 15: 30
    +1
    Quote: Corsair
    Since others are squeamish about you, I have to put you in my place

    And who are the others? You are so .. smart .. a lot? Or is it in your head?
    Quote: Corsair
    But apparently time is wasted in vain.

    Are you trying to analyze? What took so long? In relation to me, you already have a couple of hundred comments. And in each topic I lower you to a hysterical state, and are you so hard-going?
    Quote: Corsair
    In view of your complete lack of moral and ethical principles

    Do you like them?)))
    Quote: Corsair
    Well, stay so de *** ohm, which you are.
    Well, who would say))) you can even say a compliment from you. You can see how you feel your worthlessness, and at least try to assert yourself)))

    And so by the way, why should I kayats for BTR 4? And to whom and to whom do kayats need to be?

    Quote: Corsair
    Since you do not repent
    ))))
  18. Kars
    Kars 6 January 2014 22: 26
    +1
    Oh, and as if they knew in advance)))
    Arms scandal in Greece: German businessmen bribed Greek officials for arms contracts


    ___________
    The prosecutor's office in Munich began a preliminary investigation in connection with the bribe-taking during the sale of Greek armored vehicles by KMW.
    The head of the Department of Armaments of the Ministry of Defense of Greece Kantas admitted receiving a bribe when buying 170 Leopard-2 tanks.
    ___________
    ))))))
  • demeen1
    demeen1 6 January 2014 21: 44
    +1
    Truth recalls the manufacturer, not the buyer
    1. Kars
      Kars 6 January 2014 21: 51
      +1
      Quote: demeen1
      Truth recalls the manufacturer, not the buyer

      That yes, if someone gets into an accident and proves that this is a factory defect / engineering error, they will sue so much that they won’t show much.
  • APASUS
    APASUS 6 January 2014 12: 18
    +1
    Quote: Arhj
    - This is unprofessionalism or stupidity.

    This is called no technological opportunity!
    Half-destroyed the enterprise led to the loss of professional technologists, welders and engineers. Such things as the temperature of welding work, the creation of additional stresses does not count at all!
    And then the shaft went !! Come on Come on !!!
  • Genur
    Genur 6 January 2014 17: 02
    0
    There is a reason to say that the OTK "" worked ...
    1. Genur
      Genur 6 January 2014 18: 31
      0
      ... Russians from Moscow ...
  • Andrey57
    Andrey57 6 January 2014 10: 09
    +5
    Yeah, the degradation of the defense industry is complete, even forged and rolled armor have completely forgotten how to, the entire legacy of the USSR in the production of armored vehicles has ended, if they make tanks of the same armor, they will prick like nuts from any hit by a shell request
  • your1970
    your1970 6 January 2014 11: 01
    +3
    Yeah, if you get a regular disc there is a chance of falling apart. It's all strange ...
  • kelevra
    kelevra 6 January 2014 11: 43
    0
    I think this is a real sabotage, you need to find the perpetrators and punish them hard!
    1. svp67
      svp67 6 January 2014 11: 46
      0
      Quote: kelevra
      I think this is a real sabotage, you need to find the perpetrators and punish them hard!
      I am afraid that in this case Ukraine will lose all the leadership of the Kharkov plant, since here it is most likely not sabotage, but pure theft and cut ...
      1. alone
        alone 6 January 2014 12: 00
        +2
        Quote: svp67
        I’m afraid that in this case Ukraine will lose all the leadership of the Kharkov plant,


        Yes, I would force them to eliminate the whole marriage at the expense of their pocket, it is much more effective than just throwing them out of work.
  • alexbg2
    alexbg2 6 January 2014 12: 16
    +3
    Quote: makarov
    It left the factory whole. The apparatuses were welded in winter in unheated workshops, everything was within normal limits during acceptance, but when they were roasted in the sun during transportation, it made itself felt in places of stress - everything is natural. That party, which was made in the summer, had no complaints whatsoever. All the result of greed and saving on heat for workers. So let now eat the deed.

    The only difference between the summer party is that the stresses in the metal were smaller and did not lead to cracks. But these stresses remained in the design !!! How they appear during operation is still unknown. The only solution for both summer and winter welding is the forced heating of the entire structure in the chamber and holding to relieve stresses, and not hope for summer time, it will probably blow.
    It should be noted that the paintwork is weak, rust streaks are not only in cracks.
    1. Gronsky
      Gronsky 6 January 2014 16: 17
      +1
      Quote: alexbg2
      The only solution for both summer and winter welding is the forced heating of the entire structure in the chamber and holding to relieve stresses, and not hope for summer time, it will probably blow.

      Look at the root, but this does not concern the time of year, but the grade of steel being welded. Some require preheating, others allow welding without it.
  • velikoros-xnumx
    velikoros-xnumx 6 January 2014 13: 23
    0
    Akim? Kars, oooh, answer me. We are looking forward to your comments.
    1. Kars
      Kars 6 January 2014 13: 59
      +1
      Well, what are you with your nickname leshesh B. clown?
      Quote: Kars
      Kars (4) Today, 13: 22

      Quote: velikoros-xnumx
      velikoros-88 Today, 13:23 PM

      )))))))) I’ll come without your snot
      1. velikoros-xnumx
        velikoros-xnumx 6 January 2014 14: 18
        +3
        Quote: Kars
        Well, what are you with your nickname leshesh B. clown?

        Well, when will you, dear, learn to write relatively competently. I don’t know about you, but they taught me at the circus school (as we say, “even bears can be taught to ride a motorcycle”), but you can see it is far from even a bear. And then surely the bear is a strong proud animal, the owner of the forest, and you ...
        1. Kars
          Kars 6 January 2014 14: 53
          +1
          Quote: velikoros-xnumx
          Well, when are you dear to learn to write relatively competently

          and you don’t understand what I wrote?
          Quote: velikoros-xnumx
          "even bears can be taught to ride a motorcycle"

          I don’t doubt. But to teach yourself how to think - you can’t see it beyond your strength.
          Quote: velikoros-xnumx
          And it’s true that the bear is a strong proud animal, the owner of the forest, and you.

          and I am a man. but you are far from a hedgehog.
  • Zomanus
    Zomanus 6 January 2014 13: 59
    +2
    And how many trains went downhill in Russia due to the marriage of wheeled trolleys of Ukrainian origin? Until they began to control every product upon arrival to us. The guys apparently got used to working with Africa, where you can’t get involved, putting someone on your paw.
  • Gronsky
    Gronsky 6 January 2014 16: 13
    0
    From time to time I have the opportunity to observe the "quality" of the products of the Ukrainian military-industrial complex, not related to armored vehicles, so to speak personally, on purpose, close up. He stopped being surprised and pulled out his hair.
    I found an explanation for myself and now I'm just watching and waiting for my personal forecasts regarding the Ukrainian defense industry to come true. request
    1. Botanologist
      Botanologist 6 January 2014 20: 02
      +2
      Quote: Gronsky
      Stopped wondering and tearing hair.


      The point is not in surprise, but in some wild chaos throughout the country. My wife’s uncle is the only engineer at the Zaporozhye plant who can read blueprints! And he is already far beyond retirement, and the plant at some point may simply not overpower some not-so-great products.
      1. Gronsky
        Gronsky 6 January 2014 20: 25
        +1
        Quote: Botanologist
        My wife’s uncle is the only engineer at the Zaporozhye plant who can read blueprints!

        But what about the technologist who is not able to use and read the calipers or the chief engineer of the production unit who is unable to hold gears in his hands, determine the gear ratio and does not understand the meaning of the size tolerance or turner, in which the diameter variation under the bearing fits is plus or minus 2 mm Or a designer who does not know how to quickly estimate the strength of an elementary beam. Further more, but better not. crying
        1. Cynic
          Cynic 7 January 2014 16: 08
          0
          Quote: Gronsky
          a designer who does not know how to quickly estimate the strength of an elementary beam.

          But why actually?
          1. Corsair
            Corsair 8 January 2014 03: 57
            0
            Quote: Cynic
            Quote: Gronsky
            a designer who does not know how to quickly estimate the strength of an elementary beam.

            But why actually?

            This expression in the commentary is given apparently to describe the General decline of the elementary literacy of engineers ...
            1. Cynic
              Cynic 8 January 2014 08: 23
              0
              Quote: Corsair
              given apparently to describe the general decline of elementary literacy engineering ...

              Yes Yes .
              Everything can be, that's just at the time of these instances, usually not in the military-industrial complex, were not uncommon.
              By the way, I asked a question, since from the context of the post of a respected forum member Gronsky it follows, in my opinion, that he himself is not entirely guided by the realities of TTX ( laughing ) of the aforementioned engineers. Somehow in a book, cinematic.
              Life is even simpler and worse.
              hi
              1. Corsair
                Corsair 8 January 2014 23: 47
                0
                Quote: Cynic
                Yes Yes .
                Everything can be, that's just at the time of these instances, usually not in the military-industrial complex, were not uncommon.

                It’s somehow customary (and long time ago) to underestimate intelligence and professionalism All Engineering at the ode of the USSR ...

                I do not argue that there were inveterate "oaks" who bought diplomas for bacon.
                But there were PROFESSIONALS, bright heads, and the most complex enterprises built from the project to the last stone with their hands, confirmation of this ...
                1. Cynic
                  Cynic 9 January 2014 18: 49
                  0
                  Quote: Corsair
                  It is somehow customary (and long time ago) to underestimate the intelligence and professionalism of ALL engineers from the USSR ...

                  And just come from the environment of those engineers. laughing
                  By the principle of _ And what? There are those _ Te. And we are still nothing.
                  Not the ability to use a caliper, a micrometer, by the meter This is not an indicator. Not knowledge and (most important) not a desire to know the worst.
                  For my generation, this is a consequence of the reform of higher technical education in the early 70's!
                  hi
            2. Gronsky
              Gronsky 8 January 2014 12: 41
              0
              Quote: Corsair
              This expression in the commentary is given apparently to describe the General decline of the elementary literacy of engineers ...

              So.
              The question, frankly, crippled morally, so I did not answer. hi
      2. Kars
        Kars 6 January 2014 20: 36
        +1
        Quote: Botanologist
        . My wife’s uncle is the only engineer at the Zaporozhye plant who can read blueprints!

        I wonder what kind of plant is this?
        1. Kars
          Kars 6 January 2014 20: 54
          +1
          Quote: Kars
          I wonder what kind of plant is this?

          ))))))))) 00 not really interesting. I'm also from Zaporozhye.
          1. Kars
            Kars 6 January 2014 21: 02
            +1
            ))))))))))))))))))))
          2. Botanologist
            Botanologist 8 January 2014 23: 24
            0
            Quote: Kars
            really interesting. I also come from Zaporozhye.


            Frankly, I don’t know what kind of plant. Not interested. Most likely from the GOK - the uncle had a close relationship with the mining industry.
            1. Kars
              Kars 8 January 2014 23: 32
              +1
              Quote: Botanologist
              Frankly, I don’t know what kind of plant. Not interested.

              Wow, they didn’t take such an interest. They threw it into the throw.
              1. Cynic
                Cynic 9 January 2014 19: 30
                0
                Quote: Kars
                Wow

                It is this (and most importantly not only that) in the forum
                More about problems with the quality of armor Ukrainian BTR-4
                laughing
                Verily idle mind - devil workshop.

                drinks
  • zulu_1
    zulu_1 7 January 2014 00: 06
    +2
    Everything is simpler - shitty steel. During the war, T34 hulls were cooked in unheated workshops and nothing cracked
  • Cristall
    Cristall 7 January 2014 04: 09
    0
    I don’t think - it cracked, but maybe it didn’t (the 34 did a lot and went out of order --- the tank of the soldiers all the same ...)
    What is boron cheese about? Poke the plant? The plant has nothing to do with it - Lozova cooked .. she has many complaints because of marriage. The factory workers swore at them for a long time and established production at the factory itself, and not at the contractor.
    We will wait for the details of all the re-drinking. So far, all these topics are from the category - And let's kick the neighbor - but cho, because everything is good for the people themselves and can be kicked for any reason
    Kars - keep it up. Cons nothing - to give an answer - that's it.
    1. Botanologist
      Botanologist 8 January 2014 23: 26
      0
      Quote: Cristall
      Cons nothing - to give an answer - that's it.


      Does giving an answer help someone?
  • D_L
    D_L 7 January 2014 13: 15
    0
    Metal apparently alloyed and yes nevelegirovany!))
  • Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 7 January 2014 14: 20
    0
    In the old days, a similar situation was called wrecking and sabotage.
    I don’t want to engage in controversy .. I’m sure that such photos and all this hype are aimed at discrediting the Ukrainian military-industrial complex .. These armored vehicles are already lugging around all the Western media .. Can I explain the point to you ..? Ukraine doesn’t need it, they are not able to produce something .. (except fat and vodka ..) On the Maidan they said it directly .. (we will put fat instead of brandy and coca-cola vodka) .. I’m sure that these machines are with hands and would buy it .. just afraid! I don’t agree with the quality of the fountain (if you play a prank) then they will be able to make a breakthrough .. It’s just that I have a feeling .. that they are trying to omit Ukraine methodically, in principle, like Russia ..! The armor is strong and our tanks are fast ..! And Alaska is nearby .. bully
    1. Kars
      Kars 7 January 2014 14: 24
      +1
      Quote: MIKHAN
      they drag along all Western media .. The point can I explain to you ..?

      Can I link to an article on Inosmi? Is there a defense there or someone else?
      Quote: MIKHAN
      I am sure that these machines with arms and legs would be bought ..

      I personally wouldn’t buy it. And against that, if they don’t sell, they would be put into service with the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
  • sapran
    sapran 8 January 2014 19: 54
    +1
    Commentators are evil, but they have a right to it!
    Kars - the situation with the APC is certainly not pleasant, but not so fatal. There are many problems, but they obviously do not start from the factory.
    It’s also wildly unpleasant for me to see some blunders in the photo, especially when you see frank hack. Way out yes to start waiting for the official information - what decision was made:
    1) the contract is terminated - forfeit (who is hanged or there is a punishment)
    2) part of the machines is accepted corresponding to the rest for processing (replacement) we pay a penalty (guilty punishment)
    If the issue with the contract is resolved, then a tender should be announced for the supply of armored personnel carriers to Iraq, while negotiations are underway and a search for a solution and a way out of this situation is under way.
  • Cristall
    Cristall 8 January 2014 20: 32
    0
    It's a shame that at VO it became dangerous to kick something in defense of something Ukrainian. Recently I saw how Akim was kicked with all legs for an innocuous offer to extend the rental of Thread, while Yeisk was being built and brought up. Wait, Kars was rudely called out, and he was also harassed (not the first time, of course, he was not used to it). And he is in many ways right. But it’s fashionable. Come on lads - we stumble it, it’s here against the general line of the party.
    Yes, there are 4 problems with the BTR, problems in production (by the way, the car is new, but right away, without running in and fixing it, we decided to export it) there are a lot of problems. nobody argues. But how sweet to kick ..
    It is not surprising that there are Cotobots .... every action gives rise to opposition!
    There is a forum Ukrainian tanks - I read there what difficulties are there in general in the production of Bastions and BTR 4 ... I am still amazed at how they generally do something. But they do.
    1. Botanologist
      Botanologist 8 January 2014 23: 30
      -1
      Quote: Cristall
      Wait, Kars was rudely called out, and he was also harassed (not the first time, of course, he was not used to it). And he is in many ways right.


      We all get periodically. Favorite fun - poke a dead chicken in the nose of a neighbor, like the road has crossed the wrong way. And as for the APCs - spring will show who is where ... This is only a reflection of the struggle for sales markets, but in this struggle they are not taken prisoner and do not give mercy.
  • vkrav
    vkrav 8 January 2014 23: 37
    0
    For some reason, the most vital option is not even discussed - already cracked sheets were welded ...
    1. Cynic
      Cynic 9 January 2014 19: 15
      +1
      Quote: vkrav
      the most vital option - already cracked sheets were welded ...

      Sorry, but you definitely do not have a technical background.
      So, as an option _ already painted cracked sheets were welded ... wink
      You do not find this hypothesis more consistent with the photographs? And then the paint somehow falls out of this assumption.
      But in fact, even a team about welding cracked sheets is .... You know, I couldn’t even pick up a word, even obscene!
      smile