Military Review

Misadventures of Ukrainian armored personnel carriers in Iraq

72



2013 year for the Ukrainian "Ukrspetseksport" became very difficult. In the first place, this was due to the conflict situations that arose with regard to the supply of BTR-4 to Iraq.

So, according to the terms of the contract concluded in 2009, the Ukrainian side was obliged to supply the Arabs with aircraft, Tanks and 420 BTR-4. For Ukraine, this deal was the largest since the collapse of the USSR - the amount under the agreement was $ 2,4 billion.

At the beginning of 2013, as part of the fulfillment of obligations under this transaction, Iraq received 88 armored personnel carriers delivered in two batches: 26 units were shipped in April, 2011, and 62 armored personnel carriers were delivered to the customer in October, 2012.

But with the party, shipped to the Iraqi side in the spring of 2013, there was a conflict with the customer. 42 combat vehicles, which were delivered to the port of Umm-Qasr on the ship SE PACIFICA (owner - Singapore company White Whale Shipping), were not accepted by the Iraqi military because they were defective. The customer found cracks in the body of combat vehicles and flatly refused to accept the cargo. The vessel with non-loaded armored personnel carriers was anchored in the Persian Gulf for a long time, then sailed to the Indian shores with a cargo of metal.

The delay in the transfer of armored personnel carriers to an Iraqi customer led to a disruption in the delivery schedule of the metal to India: the ship and its cargo were arrested in the Indian port. After being released from arrest (the Indians demanded three months late payment from the supplier), the ship returned to the Persian Gulf in September. During his entire stay off the coast of Iraq, the ship’s commander repeatedly and unsuccessfully tried to obtain instructions and concrete decisions from the Ukrainian side regarding the future fate of the cargo. But it was in vain: Iraq by this time announced the cancellation of the contract with Ukraine. The long-suffering ship SE PACIFICA set off along the way with armored personnel carriers rejected by Iraqis. The dry cargo ship SE PACIFICA arrived in the beginning of January 2014 of the year in the port of Oktyabrsk, which since Soviet times was used to export weapons.

The sad finale of such a lucrative contract for the Ukrainian military industry has its own reasons. And each of the parties has its own vision of the situation with the fulfillment of rights and obligations under the transaction.

Misadventures of Ukrainian armored personnel carriers in Iraq


The Iraqi military does not hide its opinion on the operation of the BTR-4 in Iraqi territory. They note: “Very good and powerful weapons, but with the 30-mm ZTM-1 cannon there were a number of problems. In addition, the process of equipping the combat module with ammunition for the 30-mm cannon is quite complicated. The ribbon supply sleeve requires a better quality with smoother surface "The presence of anti-tank guided missiles deserves a good mark." But according to Iraqi customers, the BTR-4 MSA, although better than a number of Ukrainian and Russian, is still inferior to European systems. In addition, the Iraqi military during the operation of the BTR-4 were forced to replace the coolant with that used in Iraq - due to the fact that the coolant of the supplier of equipment did not lower the engine temperature to the required values. Also for the Iraqi military, the cause of pipeline leaks on many Ukrainian armored personnel carriers remained unknown.

According to Iraqi experts, test operation was carried out on high-quality roads and at not very high air temperatures (in the summer, the heat reaches 55 degrees), so the engine did not work at maximum load. But even in such circumstances, technology often broke down.

Summing up all the arguments, we can say that the Iraqi military believes that the BTR-4 is easier to operate than American or European vehicles, but this car is still poorly protected from land mines and RPGs. According to them, when mounted on the BTR-4 lattice screens, armored personnel carriers will become more protected from these weapons.

In addition, Iraqi technical experts are very unhappy with the training they took in Ukraine. In their opinion, the Ukrainian instructors were not competent enough, and the general level of training was very weak.

So what could be the main reason for the marriage of Ukrainian armored vehicles?

There is a fairly well-founded opinion that the cause of the cracks found in the BTR-4 hulls, delivered under the Iraq contract, was a high level of welding stresses that could arise when the welding technology was violated. According to experts, the welding mode was obviously violated, and the work was carried out in a cold workshop, in drafts. In this case, the weld is cooled much faster than it should be - because of this, thermal stress has been created in the metal. This assumption is confirmed by the fact that it was in the combat vehicles, the hull welding of which was carried out in the winter, cracks and other defects were found.








Experts say that in order to avoid this defect, metal parts after welding had to be placed in a high-temperature chamber (200-300 degrees) and slowly cooled.

The culprit in the marriage of the buildings was recognized by the Lozovsky Forging-Mechanical Plant (LKMZ). It is possible that the additional gas costs made the project unprofitable for LKMZ, and the production workers saved on gas in full confidence that the poorly executed work would go unnoticed. And so it happened - neither the state-owned Ukrspetsexport, which was obliged to provide authoring support for the entire project, nor the experts of the Malyshev Kharkov Machine-Building Plant either noticed or pretended not to notice the technical marriage allowed by LKMZ.

It should be noted that some experts say that in Soviet times such an attitude to work would be defined as sabotage and sabotage, but now other times and a different assessment of actions. The greed and dishonesty of those responsible for technology compliance led to the sad end of the Ukrainian-Iraqi military-technical project.

It is possible that what became known thanks to the information of numerous media outlets is only the tip of the iceberg. After all, Iraq refused not only the BTR-4 party, but also other planned deliveries of military equipment. This can also be a serious reason. As a result of a whole chain of adverse events, the Ukrainian budget will not receive huge foreign exchange earnings, and the reputation of manufacturers has also suffered significant damage. The state-owned companies Progress and Ukrspetsexport owed the shipowner for the direct transportation of armored vehicles to the shores of Iraq, for months of drift in the Persian Gulf. The return of armored personnel carriers will cost the Ukrainian treasury also expensive.

As soon as it became clear that all those involved in the transaction from the supplier of military equipment will not receive any commissions or profits, and that the funds spent on marketing will not be compensated (and they, according to some calculations, equal one third of all funds under the contract) to the prosecutor’s office was given the command to understand the situation.

It is not difficult to find the perpetrators of such a failure of the Ukrainian military industry - they are known. It's no secret that the reason for the failure to supply military equipment under the contract is not only the dishonesty of the production workers, but also the too large chain of intermediaries in the implementation of the contract. But many of them are abroad and continue their work on armory markets, including the Russian one, and are inaccessible to the Ukrainian justice. Their significant earnings are hidden in offshore accounts of foreign firms. Companies such as UST-Tech Consulting, Hectorian Services, British Lanefield Exports, owned by Belize-based companies Milltown Corporate Services and Ireland & Overseas Acquisition, Universal Investment Group (UIG), have been well known to Ukrainian law enforcement agencies for a long time - they were intermediaries in others. deals of Ukrainian gunsmiths.

In addition, problems with the Iraqi contract are also associated with D. Salamatin joining the Ukrspetsexport state corporation, who served as head of the Ukroboronprom. Failure to supply Iraq with military equipment cost the position of Ukrspetsexport general director D. Peregudov. His place was taken by A. Kovalenko. But this resignation did not help the Ukrainian Arms Corporation - instead of the Ukrainian BTR-4, the Iraqi side decided to buy Russian BTR-82.

It must be said that some media have passed information that 40 armored personnel carriers returned by the Iraqi side after arrival at the port of Odessa will be inspected, and if there are damages and defects, they will be repaired. If the Iraqi side agrees, after carrying out maintenance and repair, the armored personnel carriers will be able to go to the customer again. But if Iraqi customers believe their supplier?

Ukraine continues to work on the conclusion of new contracts for the supply of BTR-4 - buyers can become the armed forces of Kazakhstan, India, the United Arab Emirates and the armies of other countries. It remains to be believed that Ukrainian suppliers will take into account their own experience and mistakes in the implementation of other contracts.

Materials used:
http://andrei-bt.livejournal.com/258597.html
http://andrei-bt.livejournal.com/259038.html
http://btvt.narod.ru/raznoe/btr4iraq.htm
http://dumskaya.net/news/zabrakovannye-irakom-ukrainskie-btry-vozvraschay-031620/
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/705873.html
Author:
72 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Lumumba
    Lumumba 6 January 2014 10: 56
    +1
    Yes, tight in Ukraine without gas.
    1. Rustam
      Rustam 6 January 2014 11: 37
      +62
      Well, my friends are Photoshop experts!

      Some figures assured everyone 2 weeks ago that the cracks shown earlier in another photo were photoshop! And they told us about the worldwide conspiracy of the USA and Russia, against Ukrspetsexport.

      If the baron himself posted them (photo), or does he also work for her? Hello to a friend who argued with me that all the BTRs were accepted at the factory (and acceptance certificates are signed at the factory) -The Iraqis were drunk that did not notice it?

      Yes, special greetings to fellow tankmen-Sapran, Akim, Rebus, KapellaN, Gasta Claus69, Kars, _Camova_, Cristall and other specialists on cracks and world-wide unmaskers of conspiracies against the glorious Ukrainian Criminal Procedure Code

      you don’t need pictures, you need to write books, greetings to your clowns from Urspetsexport, who instead of quickly responding to the problem and solving it, mumbled for a year and said something about the machinations of enemies and competitors.
      1. rolik2
        rolik2 6 January 2014 11: 42
        -37%
        Well hello and you are a guest overseas, have you at least read the article carefully? The armored personnel carrier has not yet been unloaded and has not been inspected.
        And the photo - hell knows where it was shot, this building may rust on the outskirts of the Kharkov plant, because the author of the general plan does not.
        1. Corsair
          Corsair 6 January 2014 12: 08
          +10
          Quote: rolik2
          And the photo - hell knows where it was shot, this building may rust on the outskirts of the Kharkov plant, because the author of the general plan does not.

          Yes, with the Arabic "script" applied with a marker on the body ...
          Quote: rolik2
          The armored personnel carrier has not yet been unloaded and has not been inspected.

          When did the ship arrive at the port and what is the time for unloading?
          This article was posted before publication on the VO on the Political Review partner site before the New Year, and if I am not mistaken, the date of arrival at the port was indicated as part of 3 - January 5 ...
          1. rolik2
            rolik2 6 January 2014 12: 12
            -18%
            the ship came felts 31 felts 1 and the article was posted 2nd for lunch. Do not tell me who will unload in the new year ?? And the author probably wrote an article in a drunken stupor about cracks about loads, and then he issued that the pictures were not of this batch but of the previous one - now the question is what does the third batch have to do with ??
            1. Corsair
              Corsair 7 January 2014 01: 08
              +5
              Quote: rolik2
              article was posted 2nd at lunch.

              I repeat:
              Quote: Corsair
              This article was posted before publication on the VO on the Political Review partner site before the New Year
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Ihrek
          Ihrek 7 January 2014 13: 23
          +8
          Quote: rolik2
          Well hello and you are a guest overseas, have you at least read the article carefully? The armored personnel carrier has not yet been unloaded and has not been inspected.
          And the photo - hell knows where it was shot, this building may rust on the outskirts of the Kharkov plant, because the author of the general plan does not.

          Well then, wait for another greetings after unloading and inspection.
        4. Charon
          Charon 8 January 2014 00: 33
          +3
          Roller merged.
        5. The comment was deleted.
        6. CHILD
          CHILD 8 January 2014 16: 49
          +1
          exactly .... "good" cars, just the enemies on the way changed everything .... and the stupid Iraqis resist, suck all the shortcomings out of the finger .... but on hell .. to unload them now? that the jambs will pass by themselves ?. ..
      2. Rebus
        Rebus 6 January 2014 11: 55
        +4
        Quote: Rustam
        Yes, special greetings to fellow tankmen-Sapran, Akim, Rebus, KapellaN, Gasta Claus69, Kars, _Camova_, Cristall and other specialists on cracks and world-wide unmaskers of conspiracies against the glorious Ukrainian Criminal Procedure Code

        laughing He was never a tanker, nor a defectologist, and he did not expose conspiracies. But the photo you are talking about was really doubtful ... According to one photo published in the article that you are hinting at (http://topwar.ru/37396-skandalnye-peripetii-kontrakta-na-postavku-btr-4 -v-irak.
        html # comment-id-1777432), it is not possible to draw definite conclusions
      3. Akim
        Akim 6 January 2014 12: 04
        0
        Quote: Rustam
        Some figures assured everyone 2 weeks ago that the cracks shown earlier in another photo are photoshop

        I have stated and declare that in that photograph a crack is drawn. On these not. But the hull itself is not visible, only its parts.
        Iraqis do not drink - so they looked carefully at the reception.
        1. Corsair
          Corsair 6 January 2014 12: 18
          +7
          Quote: Akim
          Iraqis do not drink - so they looked carefully at the reception.

          You Akimyou think like in the famous studio interlude 95 quarter "Our America".
          ... Why did you sell him the broken tanks?
          He did not know, I sold ...


          Type in the name in a search engine and look, it looks very much like an Iraqi contract ...
          1. Rustam
            Rustam 6 January 2014 12: 26
            +3
            r
            olik2 (1)
            Well hello and you are a guest overseas, have you at least read the article carefully?


            Are we already on you? read my words more closely and go to the archives of military review in the article on cracks on btr-4-can see

            Akim I stated and declare that in that photo a crack is drawn


            That is, like 2 weeks ago, is it Photoshop? But why did Baron have to lay it out and talk about cracks - he’ve been trying to discourage the BTR-4 from us all year talking about intrigues of competitors — or bought it? You have nothing to cover
            1. Akim
              Akim 6 January 2014 12: 33
              +1
              Quote: Rustam
              That is, like 2 weeks ago, is it Photoshop?

              These photos are not painted. Luminous flux goes through the cracks correctly. You can’t draw them. About the marriage of the buildings, a bold statement, because there is one crack on two sheets. How it was posed is the question (maybe during welding, or maybe for another reason).
            2. rolik2
              rolik2 6 January 2014 12: 33
              -5
              Quote: Rustam
              can see clearly

              Why can I see there?
              The reason for the cracks in the THIRD batch is YOUR "experts" and the author of this opus calls it a lack of gas (high price), the fact that the hulls were cooked in cold workshops, some kind of stress (I don't understand anything about this), but at the same time the author posts a photo of the SECOND batch with cracks, whereas this party COULD NOT physically in winter.
              And the fact that the article was published on the SECOND day after the ship arrived at the port, and where is the photo of the THIRD installment ?? WITH YOUR cracks?
              1. Ascetic
                Ascetic 6 January 2014 15: 57
                +7
                Quote: rolik2
                the author uploads a photo of the SECOND batch with cracks, while this batch could not physically go into the winter.
                And the fact that the article was published on the SECOND day after the ship arrived at the port, and where is the photo of the THIRD installment ??


                There is still no photo of the third batch. But the second one is complete. Here for example
                Iraqi military inspect cracks in the armored personnel carrier of the BTR-4 armored personnel carrier delivered to Iraq as part of second batch of these cars in October 2012 years

                1. rolik2
                  rolik2 6 January 2014 16: 03
                  -4
                  Quote: Ascetic
                  But the second is complete.

                  Can you provide? Just please do not provide this, dubious quality

                  Yes, and she appeared for the first time on the Baron's blog laughing
                  1. PLO
                    PLO 6 January 2014 16: 05
                    +4
                    the photoshop of the original does not prove that the original is photoshop.
                    humble yourself.
                    1. rolik2
                      rolik2 6 January 2014 16: 10
                      0
                      Quote: olp
                      photoshop of the original, does not prove that the original is photoshop.

                      Well, if I was able to take photos, then why shouldn't the original be an asshole?
                      I understand you would like it to be true, but let's look at it, look at this batch and find cracks, we will sand the guilty, but for now we don’t grind it here.
                      And dear Ascetic, where are the "many" photos? Is there anything other than this?
                      1. PLO
                        PLO 6 January 2014 16: 20
                        +9
                        Well, if I was able to take photos, then why shouldn't the original be an asshole?

                        because it is flawed logic.
                        this is not a photoshop exclusively because it was not a photoshop, there was not a single original without a crack


                        I understand you would like it to be true, but let's look at it, look at this batch and find cracks, we will sand the guilty, but for now we don’t grind it here.

                        by and large I don’t give a damn, although I admit it’s funny to see how those writhes who a couple of months ago shouted that everything was fine and the reason for her machinations, after Ukrspetsexport issued a press release that everything was going according to plan ...

                        Well, so they examined the party, posted pictures that you still need? personally present)
                      2. The comment was deleted.
                      3. rolik2
                        rolik2 6 January 2014 16: 37
                        -7
                        Quote: olp
                        Well, so they examined the party, posted pictures that you still need? personally present)

                        Who examined her? she still stands in the holds.
                      4. PLO
                        PLO 6 January 2014 16: 42
                        +3
                        Who examined her? she still stands in the holds.

                        why are you so sure that they all stand in the holds?
                        why are you so sure that even if they are standing in the holds it is impossible to inspect them?
                      5. rolik2
                        rolik2 6 January 2014 16: 48
                        -4
                        Quote: olp
                        why are you so sure that they all stand in the holds?
                        why are you so sure that even if they are standing in the holds it is impossible to inspect them?

                        So where is the photo?
                        The ship came 31 do you really think that we have people who want to work on New Year's Eve? Or did the Duma miss such an opportunity to raise its rating?
                      6. PLO
                        PLO 6 January 2014 16: 55
                        +7
                        photo above.
                        On the 31st (and also on other holidays) those who are entitled to work.


                        Here's an example to you how the photo works real Asterisk factory
                        A few hours were left before the long-awaited holiday. However, work is boiling on the slipway.

                      7. rolik2
                        rolik2 6 January 2014 16: 59
                        -1
                        "the photo above" was taken in 2012, and according to the author, that and the color of that armored personnel carrier is quite different from those that are laid out with cracks today, but the author claims that they are from the same batch and were made in the same year
                        Quote: olp
                        A few hours were left before the long-awaited holiday. However, work is boiling on the slipway.

                        I congratulate you, but the clearance of goods arriving from abroad takes a lot of time, and does not depend on movers.
                      8. PLO
                        PLO 6 January 2014 17: 04
                        +3
                        "photo above" was taken in 2012 and then according to the author

                        I mean the photo is even higher)

                        it is possible to inspect the cargo without unloading it, but it’s ridiculous to say about clearance, no one will stop the port due to holidays
                      9. rolik2
                        rolik2 6 January 2014 17: 08
                        0
                        Quote: olp
                        I mean the photo is even higher)

                        So they are 12 years old laughing
                        Quote: olp
                        it is possible to inspect the cargo without unloading it

                        Yeah, customs and border guards and the rest zas.
                        Quote: olp
                        it's funny to talk about design

                        and about the design is not for you to tell me laughing Every day I watch how the cargo is processed and how much time it takes.
                      10. PLO
                        PLO 6 January 2014 17: 11
                        +4
                        So they are 12 years old

                        How interesting..
                        Can I have a link?
                        it turns out that these are pictures of the previous batch.


                        and I don’t need to tell you about clearance laughing every day I observe how cargo is processed and how long it takes

                        ok to hell with them with the design, you have not yet answered what is the problem to inspect without unloading?
                      11. rolik2
                        rolik2 6 January 2014 17: 13
                        -1
                        please, the author’s revelations on the page of his blog, to the question where the photo came from the answer

                        Military goods are accepted and processed according to a different scheme than civilian ones. After you get permission to unload the equipment, see as many
                      12. PLO
                        PLO 6 January 2014 17: 20
                        +7
                        wow (s)
                        I will not hide it even steeper than if there were cracks only on this batch, which could be explained precisely by temporary problems. and so this is the problem of all previously issued armored personnel carriers.
                        here, by the way, you can recall Barosha as he six months ago, without batting an eye, claimed that everything was ok.

                        Well, then we'll wait for the photos of the current armored vehicles it seems to me they will be much more interesting ..
                      13. rolik2
                        rolik2 6 January 2014 17: 25
                        -1
                        Quote: olp
                        here, by the way, you can recall Barosha as he six months ago, without batting an eye, claimed that everything was ok.

                        Recently, he is not at all adequate, articles on this topic are feast for the eyes "mixed in a bunch of horses, people"
                        Here you can talk, go to his blog to read it, sandwiches the third installment, and the photo uploads the second, and FORGETS to report it.
                        And what version of welding in cold shops is just a masterpiece.
                      14. PLO
                        PLO 6 January 2014 17: 31
                        +1
                        it seems to me the last post about cracks is a step of hopelessness, that is, the baron decided to play ahead of schedule to present the Old in his own way.

                        but about the cold workshops there is a really very interesting artistic story)
                      15. Rustam
                        Rustam 6 January 2014 17: 45
                        +4
                        PLO
                        it seems to me the last post about cracks is a step of hopelessness, that is, the baron decided to play ahead of schedule to present the Old in his own way.


                        Naturally, from her darling, he fought for the whole year assuring that everything was fine with BTR-4 and Mokskali (BMPD)
                        the damned specifically lie to denigrate the glorious guys from Ukrspetseksport

                        Here’s the picture here - they all locked in photoshopers — but there will be no stand until the end — Kiev behind us

                        in a normal society, after such an embarrassment, I shoot myself or repent like they were wrong and all that is not these from another test.

                        It's like a zombie - only an aspen stake will save the patient.

                        ps-how you can conduct further discussions with them on other topics-zombie people
                      16. Kars
                        Kars 6 January 2014 17: 51
                        +1
                        Quote: Rustam
                        in a normal society, after such an embarrassment, I shoot or repent like they were wrong and all that is not these from another test

                        Oh well, how many people in Arzamas shot up when plans for the BTR-82 were ruined even though he (BTR-82) wasn’t very different from the original.
                        And now tank engines are coming to the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation that are not capable of producing even the warranty period.
                      17. Rustam
                        Rustam 6 January 2014 17: 59
                        +4
                        Oh well, how many in Arzamas got shot when plans for the BTR-82



                        I'm talking about you and your friends Photoshop experts — that you are like a zombie, and when you are already locked, you are trying to get out somehow, but you have nothing to cover, everyone has locked you!

                        about AMZ, can you find me at least one word in defense of their failure under the state defense order? I was one of the first to identify this problem, despite the cries of some people addressed to me, and named the main scammers among the allies.

                        so do not sing war songs.
                      18. Kars
                        Kars 6 January 2014 18: 18
                        +1
                        Quote: Rustam
                        - what are you like zombies

                        We don’t need to flatter us, we still have to grow and grow in the zombies. With no analogues in the world.
                        Quote: Rustam
                        but you have nothing to cover, everyone has pinned you!

                        Why bother about what? Who are you? And what is the reason for it?
                        Quote: Rustam
                        about the AMZ, find me at least one word of mine in defense of their failure under the state defense order?

                        Who are you so that I would look for your words? Somewhere in other branches? I have enough here
                        Quote: Rustam
                        in a normal society, after such an embarrassment, I shoot myself or repent like they were wrong and all that is not these from another test.

                        They wrote, confirm. I gave you examples of embarrassment. Or do you not pretend to be a normal society?
                        Quote: Rustam
                        so no need to sing war songs
                        And this is what?
                      19. Rustam
                        Rustam 6 January 2014 18: 53
                        +9
                        I see it is useless to talk with you - on this post we finish

                        it’s still up to you to grow and grow. With no analogues in the world.


                        here it is possible in more detail, if you say A, then it should be B

                        why bother about what? Who are you?


                        The fact that cracks are reality and photoshop is not here, and this is the mischief of enemies and competitors

                        make up for your memory
                        __
                        Kars (4)  December 18, 2013 01:35 ↑

                        And in fact, how much money is the third question. And the first is a crack in the photoshop. There are no official statements about the cracks. If there were problems with a gun that was not produced in the territory of Ukraine under the USSR, it was officially announced about them and also eliminated.
                        ____

                        Well now? You must be able to answer for your words, you don’t know how and are trying to get off,but to admit your kanfuz your pride does not allow you

                        They wrote, confirm. I gave you examples of embarrassment. Or do you not pretend to be a normal society?


                        I kind of answered you, ay, I repeat

                        I first identified problems with AMZ

                        - I didn’t speak out about the engines and the resource on the t-90, on the contrary, I always criticized Uralvagonzavod


                        so all the best
                      20. Kars
                        Kars 6 January 2014 19: 16
                        +1
                        Quote: Rustam
                        I see it is useless to talk with you - on this post we finish

                        It would be better not to start you.

                        Quote: Rustam
                        here it is possible in more detail, if you say A, then it should be B

                        Well, you are not aware of the unparalleled in the world?

                        http://lurkmore.to/%D0%9D%D0%B5_%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%8E%D1%89%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%B
                        0%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B2_%D0%B2_%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%B5

                        Quote: Rustam
                        ars (4)  December 18, 2013 01:35 ↑

                        And in fact, how much money is the third question. And the first is a crack in the photoshop. There are no official statements about the cracks. If there were problems with a gun that was not produced in the territory of Ukraine under the USSR, it was officially announced about them and also eliminated.

                        And what? Have you at least refuted and secured something? Is there a second photo with a crack indicated by the Iraqi military? What chassis number is this crack on?
                        Where is the official statement of the Iraqi side? etc.
                        Quote: Rustam
                        Well now, you need to be able to answer for your words, you don’t know how and are trying to get off, and your pride does not allow you to admit your kanfuz

                        Well, if you follow my comments, you can look in a similar topic today.
                        Quote: Rustam
                        I first identified problems with AMZ

                        Right first? So who shot himself then? Or on his knees apologized?
                        Quote: Rustam
                        - I didn’t speak out about the engines and the resource on the t-90, on the contrary, I always criticized Uralvagonzavod

                        And then someone shot himself?
                        And note this with such astronomical funding and for your own army, and not for export.
                        Quote: Rustam
                        so all the best

                        Good riddance of the track.
                      21. Rustam
                        Rustam 6 January 2014 19: 36
                        +6
                        it’s impossible to leave you like that

                        It would be better not to start you.


                        But Chezh did not start, then you and your friends tank crews told us Krylov's fables about Photoshop and the machinations of competitors

                        Well, you are not aware of the unparalleled in the world?


                        Lastly, you did not address these reproaches to the right address — on the contrary, I always reacted sharply to the uploader
                        type created Coalition has no analogues in the world so you gave a mistake here.

                        Right first? So who shot himself then? Or on his knees apologized?


                        Yes, one of the first and I do not hide when everyone told how well there, but they are struggling to fulfill the defense orders and export orders, and production of 500 units a year is also good
                        And I don’t need to shoot, I did not stop them and did not say that everything is gorgeous there, unlike you and your friends

                        And then someone shot himself?


                        Your language is bad, read more books, this is useful, we are talking about you and your words

                        Good riddance of the track.


                        Have a nice one you too
                      22. Kars
                        Kars 6 January 2014 19: 49
                        +1
                        Quote: Rustam
                        it’s impossible to leave you like that

                        Make an effort on yourself.

                        Quote: Rustam
                        But Chezh did not start, then you and your friends tank crews told us Krylov's fables about Photoshop and the machinations of competitors

                        Well, you still have not refuted photoshop. A specific photo submitted earlier. With a circle.
                        As for the machinations of competitors - well, they cannot be ruled out either, maybe the Iraqis would have accepted it with cracks if they didn’t return the cracked early ones. What difference does it make to ditch them.
                        Quote: Rustam
                        Yes, one of the first and do not hide

                        And who are you? Someone from the factories? Are related to the military-industrial complex of the Russian Federation?

                        Quote: Rustam
                        and production of 500 units per year is also not bad

                        Well, do not be distracted from quality and characteristics by quantity.
                        Quote: Rustam
                        I don’t need to shoot

                        How is this not necessary? Do you live in a normal country?
                        Quote: Rustam
                        in normal society, after such a cannonose, I shoot or repent

                        Quote: Rustam
                        Your language is bad, read more books, this is useful, we are talking about you and your words

                        Books do not help, verified. And we are talking about your words. Did I quote you or didn’t you say that?
                        Quote: Rustam
                        Have a nice one you too

                        Wind in the back.
          2. rolik2
            rolik2 6 January 2014 17: 52
            -7
            Quote: Rustam
            Here’s the picture here - they all locked in photoshopers — but there will be no stand until the end — Kiev behind us

            What are you using? The fact that they published a photo of the cracks is not clear why? It is difficult to determine the type of armored personnel carrier from them, not to mention WHERE it is located. Maybe he is lying in a landfill in Kharkov?
            We all know perfectly well what junk our drive can sometimes drive.
            But in this case there are more questions than answers. If Iraq refused the third installment, then show the photo of the cracks of the THIRD installment and the official refusal, but there are no rumors and clandestine photos on which it is not possible to say anything specifically.
  2. PLO
    PLO 6 January 2014 17: 27
    +6
    After you get permission to unload the equipment, see as many

    apparently this tricky plan didn’t work with Iraqis? winked
  3. I am a Russian
    I am a Russian 8 January 2014 13: 33
    +1
    Quote: olp
    apparently this tricky plan didn’t work with Iraqis?


    Once again, the outskirts of the steep have shown their limitations, partial incompetence (as if not quite), greed and not foresight.

    Once again, a bolt with ...

    And maybe it's just a PR move on the outskirts ... so as not to go into oblivion.
  4. 31231
    31231 6 January 2014 17: 12
    +2
    And what does anyone have a desire to pay for a simple vessel?
  5. se-ma
    se-ma 12 January 2014 14: 42
    0
    I wonder how the relevant services missed such an explicit marriage.
  6. The comment was deleted.
  7. rolik2
    rolik2 6 January 2014 17: 33
    0
    The article was published on Dumskaya exactly half a year after the first publication.
    And the phrase
    Quote: Ascetic
    did not speak only lazy.

    it sounds strange, the company said, but not around the world? Remember when they revealed the marriage of guns - it was of. it was announced that a marriage was found, in all the forums Ukraine was pissed off and that's it. But there was nothing you could look for cracks before being published on the pages of the Duma at all.
    And in the photo BTR-4MV photo it wasn’t delivered to Iraq and I don’t see it. I’m not an expert on cracks
  8. Ascetic
    Ascetic 6 January 2014 17: 30
    +7
    Quote: rolik2
    I understand you would like it to be true, but let's look at it, look at this batch and find cracks, we will sand the guilty, but for now we don’t grind it here.

    Quote: rolik2
    I understand you would like it to be true, but let's look at it, look at this batch and find cracks, we will sand the guilty, but for now we don’t grind it here.


    As they say in Ukroboronprom itself, that there were cracks in the armor of this batch of armored personnel carriers, only the lazy did not speak in the company. I have no doubt that, informing the president about the solution of problematic issues and receiving a guarantee from the government, would-be heads of state-owned companies knew about the cracks in the armor. Of course, it is necessary to thoroughly investigate the question of which of the officials of Ukroboronprom and Ukrspetsexport, in spite of the revealed defects, gave the order to send the batch with defects to the customer.

    Also quite interesting how and why Minister of Defense D. Salamatin signed an order on the adoption of this type of military equipment with numerous defects and deficiencies in the armament of the Ukrainian army. By the way, the Prosecutor General’s Office has already thought about this, which, as it became recently known from prosecutors, opened criminal proceedings upon abuse of authority by officials of the Ministry of Defense.

    Did the Iraqi military know that there were cracks in the armor of this batch of equipment? I think they knew, but, quite possibly, they relied on very "weighty arguments."

    According to the old Ukrainian tradition, after the arrival of the equipment at the military base in Tajji, the figures from Ukrspetsexport forgot about the transfer of "weighty arguments" to the interested Iraqi military. It was after this that the Iraqi military began to "actively" identify cracks in the armor.

    I remember all your cracks
  9. I am a Russian
    I am a Russian 8 January 2014 13: 48
    +1
    Quote: Ascetic
    it is necessary to carefully investigate the question of which of the officials of "Ukroboronprom" and "Ukrspetsexport", despite the revealed defects, gave the order to send the batch with defects to the customer.


    if you look for the guilty ... is it necessary?

    a simple Ukrainian - he doesn’t care or will not do anything anyway. And the rest - so they are at the trough.
  • Akim
    Akim 6 January 2014 16: 49
    -5
    Quote: Ascetic
    Iraqi military inspect cracks in the armored personnel carrier of the BTR-4 armored personnel carrier delivered to Iraq as part of the second batch of these vehicles in October 2012

    Imagine, but not here! 5 minutes of work. Now, if there was an original of 300 points, then it makes sense to prove. And so, the crack is painted, though quite roughly.
    1. PLO
      PLO 6 January 2014 16: 57
      +4
      pathetic attempts.
      it would make sense if we saw this photo before the original)
      and now this is just a proof of your powerlessness sad
      1. Akim
        Akim 6 January 2014 17: 06
        -1
        Quote: olp
        it would make sense if we saw this photo before the original)

        Generally does not make sense. just ready to take a picture. I understand - you are an American! In Soviet films, only a kiss and the light turned off - and in the next episode, a child. and everyone knew how he appears,
        1. Akim
          Akim 6 January 2014 17: 14
          0
          PS Now, I increased it. Look at the stains from the eraser and airbrush, not to mention light shadows. But I say, you need the original.
        2. PLO
          PLO 6 January 2014 17: 25
          +3
          with logic I look at you problems
          so far it’s you who are being taken into this picture.
          given the fact that there are cracks there for sure. which has already been confirmed by other photos, a special photo-ass of this particular photo does not make sense
          and deal with it yourself
        3. Akim
          Akim 6 January 2014 17: 37
          -1
          Quote: olp
          with logic I look at you problems
          so far it’s you who are being taken into this picture.

          Really - problems. Then why her Ascetic showed? I said she was fake. Others are real, but torn from pieces.
      2. Zeus
        Zeus 6 January 2014 18: 37
        0
        And where are the stains from the eraser and the airbrush?))) And why use the eraser when drawing strips? What kind of light shadows?
  • Zeus
    Zeus 6 January 2014 18: 32
    0
    Can you give a photo without a crack of the same resolution as with a crack? And right away I say if manually increase the resolution on a low-resolution photo, I will see traces of interpolation.
    1. Akim
      Akim 6 January 2014 19: 33
      -1
      Quote: Zeus
      And where are the stains from the eraser and the airbrush?)))

      In the lower third, the crack sticks together. Drawing it is not a problem. It needs to be implanted. And at a computer resolution of 72 or 96 points, this cannot be done. Therefore, the jambs are visible.
      And they did not have the original photo from the camera. Therefore, the canopy is visible.
      1. Zeus
        Zeus 6 January 2014 20: 28
        +4
        Show the arrow where something is sticking together. Once again: in order to draw a strip, you do not need to work with an eraser. And the airbrush tool is used in the pro-old versions of Photoshop.
        Can you show a picture without a crack, the same resolution as a picture with a crack?
        Judging by the quality of the pictures, this is the source. Made by some kind of smartphone shit. However, what you presented without a crack is of even worse quality.
        If your crack is so easy to draw, I assume that you can do it. Can you draw a crack of a different shape in another place of the photo provided and lay it WITHOUT a decrease in quality and resolution?
      2. Akim
        Akim 6 January 2014 21: 06
        0
        Quote: Zeus
        However, what you presented without a crack is of even worse quality.

        This is the same photo, I just covered it (crack).
        And with regards to it, I can or not. Previously, he could, when several years ago he was looking for himself in civilian life and worked as a designer. There is no practice for a long time. But try. There are so many cracks.
      3. Zeus
        Zeus 6 January 2014 21: 29
        +1
        Here on your photos you can see the processing of a photo that was originally laid out on the network with a crack. And I do not see cracks in the last instance.
        I’m saying this by the fact that from the photo that was posted on the network, more precisely, its framed piece with an accent circle, it is impossible to determine 100% that this crack was drawn in a graphical editor. If you have the source from the camera, then this can be set with 100% accuracy. But once again I say: by the quality of the image, by the size of the photo, we can conclude that the photo after shooting was not adjusted for quality, but only an accent circle was cropped and drawn. The size, quality, structure of noise allow us to conclude that it was a camera in a mobile phone or smartphone. If so, then this is not a fake. But if not, then the fake was made with a high-quality photo and it was made by a good specialist.
      4. Akim
        Akim 6 January 2014 21: 42
        -2
        Quote: Zeus
        I’m saying this by the fact that from the photo that was posted on the network, more precisely, its framed piece with an accent circle, it is impossible to determine 100% that this crack was drawn in a graphical editor. If you have the source from the camera, then it can be set with 100% accuracy

        And what did I say before ?! Give the original photo with a crack, then I won’t believe in it. But your statement about the expert is wrong. The difference in color depths is visible.
      5. Zeus
        Zeus 6 January 2014 21: 54
        +6
        Quote: Akim
        Quote: Zeus
        I’m saying this by the fact that from the photo that was posted on the network, more precisely, its framed piece with an accent circle, it is impossible to determine 100% that this crack was drawn in a graphical editor. If you have the source from the camera, then it can be set with 100% accuracy

        And what did I say before ?! Give the original photo with a crack, then I won’t believe in it.


        No no, you just categorically stated that the crack in this photo is drawn. Moreover, they declared more than once.

        For example:

        Quote: Akim
        ]
        I have stated and declare that in that photograph a crack is drawn.


        Quote: Akim
        But your statement about the expert is wrong. The difference in color depths is visible.


        Give examples of previously laid out pictures, indicate the place on them where there is a difference in color depth. So that everyone can measure it. I’ll accurately measure.
  • I am a Russian
    I am a Russian 8 January 2014 13: 57
    +1
    Quote: Zeus
    in order to draw a strip, you do not need to work with an eraser.


    before painting, cracks were putty for ... yes, the Ukrainian putty was visible ... could not stand it ...
  • Akim
    Akim 6 January 2014 12: 26
    0
    Quote: Corsair
    He did not know, I sold ...

    That's exactly how everyone sells. The equipment is assembled in some conditions, but in another climatic regime it can be a mess. New An-32s for Iraq were not "broken", but at the beginning of operation they began to kick out. The problem was solved without leaving the base.
    1. Rustam
      Rustam 6 January 2014 12: 41
      +3
      Akim
      The problem was solved without leaving the base.


      Do you acknowledge that the BTR-4 is defective? and the clowns from Ukrspetsexport finally buried a promising contract with their movements, and most importantly, the hand of the USA and Moscow has nothing to do with it, and here the greed and greed of Ukrainian businessmen, and inability to solve the problems that arose.

      What do you think, in other countries everything is covered, no, of course everyone has problems with quality, someone has more, someone has less (there’s the story with the Algerian MIGA), but it was quickly resolved at that time, without aloofing relations and Algeria’s main client is Rosoborona in North Africa, the seller’s task is to quickly solve the problems that have arisen, both with products and their subsequent support, that’s his task

      You know that I always omit our grief VPkashnikov-who also happen to want to get rich quick-forgetting about quality and logistics

      And otmazyvat and talk about world conspiracies is ridiculous, must be done so that in the future this is not repeated

      that's all
      1. Akim
        Akim 6 January 2014 12: 50
        +1
        Quote: Rustam
        Do you acknowledge that the BTR-4 is defective?

        I admit that the guns, in hot climates, were delayed, the problem was solved by replacing the slider and lighter oil.
        And I didn’t talk about conspiracies, I don’t need to ascribe too much
        1. Rustam
          Rustam 6 January 2014 13: 00
          +7
          Akim I admit that guns, in hot climates, were delayed,


          And with the buildings all right, huh? Everything is clear, even though they squeezed it, but I'm stubborn and I will go to the end, even if the whole world burns, it’s hard for you, you don’t know how to admit your wrong and erroneous judgments

          I repeat the question! Why did the Baron have to voice the problem with the cases and upload photos? Please answer.


          And I didn’t talk about conspiracies, I don’t need to ascribe too much


          Do not flatter yourself, do not, especially for you underlined in red!

          __ ___
          Akim  December 17, 2013 12:24 ↑ ↓

          This is a snapshot, hit the net not today. He has been walking her since September. But a single shot is not proof. Need pictures and from other angles.
          In general, an anti-campaign against Iraq’s Ukrainian armored vehicles is currently underway in Iraq. The quality of the planes satisfies them, although there were also minor problems on the spot from the summer, but the Antonov specialists adjusted everything.
          The BTR-4 stands, along with the BTR-80 not armed with the 36th brigade. This does not suit Americans who want to transfer the entire 9th division to their equipment.
          __ ____

          Know how to lose!

          1. rolik2
            rolik2 6 January 2014 13: 08
            -1
            Quote: Rustam
            Why did the Baron need

            And you direct him and ask
            http://andrei-bt.livejournal.com
            Well, at the same time, and ask the question why the photo material does not fit with the text?

            Quote: Rustam
            And with the buildings all right, huh?

            That hell knows them, in Ukraine no one has seen them yet.
          2. Akim
            Akim 6 January 2014 13: 57
            0
            Quote: Rustam
            This does not suit Americans who want to transfer the entire 9th division to their equipment.

            Is that a conspiracy? I thought it was uncle Sam using selfish interests. They just want to monopolize the arms market in Iraq. They start with the weaker ones. But this is not a conspiracy. A conspiracy is when an information anti-company unfolds in order to discredit the public's opinion about the product. And this is not in the English-language media. Or find - in order to convince.
            Quote: Akim
            What for? if there is evidence of the crappy quality of the BTR, let them just show it. This contract makes me neither warm nor cold. If he really is rubbish - and rightly so. 28.13.13/XNUMX/XNUMX
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Roman 1977
              Roman 1977 6 January 2014 14: 54
              +2
              Maybe the Americans, especially since they are actively pushing the Iraqis into their second-hand "shoe boxes" - M-113, in total, the Americans must supply 1026 M-113 to Iraq, according to an agreement signed in 2010, in 2011 the Americans delivered 200 armored personnel carriers , in 2012, according to the data provided to the UN Register of Conventional Arms, 449 M113A2 armored personnel carriers, 30 M577A2 command and staff vehicles were transferred to Iraq.
              Thanks to the supply of obsolete equipment, the US Army will save 31 million dollars in the storage of armored vehicles and their subsequent demilitarization.
              http://www.arms-expo.ru/049057054048124051050050057050.html


              M-113 Iraqi Army
              1. EvilLion
                EvilLion 6 January 2014 19: 45
                -6
                M113 is a good thing.
            3. I am a Russian
              I am a Russian 8 January 2014 14: 12
              0
              Quote: Akim
              Is that a conspiracy?


              not ... another crusade of Ukraine ... in search of the guilty.
  • Ascetic
    Ascetic 6 January 2014 15: 25
    +6
    Quote: Akim
    Iraqis do not drink - so they looked carefully at the reception.


    Even as they drink .. they reassure but they drink arak because it is not wine prohibited by the Book of the Prophet. It is something like anise vodka.
    Iraqi technicians are very unhappy with the training they received in Ukraine. In their opinion, the Ukrainian instructors were not competent enough, and the general level of training was very weak.

    Here, rather, the trainees are stupid, and even have not withstood the test of Ukrainian vodka with bacon after the arak. By the way, they crack bacon too, which I was convinced of back in the Soviet period in a military sanatorium in Sukhumi where they were repeatedly "treated" with them.
    1. Akim
      Akim 6 January 2014 15: 50
      -2
      Quote: Ascetic
      articles and fat they crack, too, which was convinced in the Soviet period in the military sanatorium in Sukhumi

      Turkmens studied at my institute. And they drank vodka and cracked bacon. Allah does not see under the roof. But for this, you have to live in our society for six months. And at the expense of the instructors, I can and agree. We do not have these machines in our troops and they do not know all the "pitfalls".
  • PLO
    PLO 6 January 2014 16: 04
    +1
    how much the word "halva" do not say in your mouth will not become sweeter.
    the truth is that there was no photoshop, the cracks are real, your excuses like photoshop used to be, but now they probably don't look silly.
  • pensioner
    pensioner 7 January 2014 23: 58
    +3
    Quote: Rustam
    Some figures assured everyone 2 weeks ago that the cracks shown earlier in another photo were photoshop!

    Well, for example, I also suspected Photoshop then. Such a quality of pictures was, and now I see that everything is fine ... A classic of the genre. All the cracks shown in the photo are the so-called cold cracks. The only reason for their occurrence is a violation of welding technology. Well, if we discard the very stupid reason-the mismatch of steel grade TD.
    1. Corsair
      Corsair 8 January 2014 03: 35
      0
      Quote: retired
      .Classics of the genre.

      I can't imagine HOW the Ukrainian side will "launder" ...
  • badger1974
    badger1974 9 January 2014 13: 20
    0
    you will not believe, but the repaired equipment is put into operation (even after through holes), we are talking about the fact that the failed overseas activity of Ukrainian arms providers, that is, either they sold themselves on purpose at the expense of certain companies (countries) or stupidity, both in the first and in the second case it is HARMFUL, and it should be punished by SHOOTING, otherwise there is no other way, let me remind you, a contract with KrAZmi in Iraq (for some reason, Kamaz arrived in Iraq), a contract with Turkey for the supply of scimitars (Euroported T-64s, and Leo arrived in Turkey, with what scimitar levs were still pulled out of the mud), Yuzhmashev's "zeniths" to the sea start-complete, drowned about 30 near-earth navigation satellites of the customer, with An-70 and An-140 to speak at once !!!!!! and so on, do not fatty fingers
  • O_RUS
    O_RUS 7 January 2014 21: 08
    +1
    Quote: Lumumba
    Yes, tight in Ukraine without gas.


    Sorry ... what kind of nonsense are you talking about?

    Suppose there really are cracks. And then the matter is not the availability of a sufficient amount of gas, but a completely different matter.

    And in Ukraine there are craftsmen who can weld good steel. But do the foremen give the steelworkers a normal job?

    And with whose filing did they miss with such an explicit marriage?

    I repeat once again - are there any cracks?
    1. family tree
      family tree 7 January 2014 21: 27
      +3
      Quote: O_RUS
      Suppose there really are cracks. And then the matter is not the availability of a sufficient amount of gas, but a completely different matter.

      There, during rental, constant heating is needed for tempering, and then the edges of the sheet are substandard, especially when deviating from the technology. They are usually cut, but apparently they decided to save on metal. In general, the ends must be sought from the suppliers of the sheet and from the manufacturers of the cases. In general, the scammers are trivial, either they gave out sheets for condition, all in size, or others cut the condition, but the grandmas were in someone’s pocket. Cracks, not due to welding, welding, usually go along the seam, and in the photographs, count everything along the normal to the seam.
  • Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 6 January 2014 11: 16
    +8
    Daaaaaa .... There is a degradation not only of the culture of production, but also of management in general. Please ... such a contract !!! Nothing, assimilated with Geyropa, just ... the entire industry as a whole. Service contracts for "real" Europeans in bars, salons and construction sites are easier to execute.
  • rolik2
    rolik2 6 January 2014 11: 17
    -2
    According to experts, the welding mode was obviously violated, and the work was carried out in a cold workshop, in drafts.

    According to the author who posted the photo of the cracks, this is a photo of the cracks of the second batch of armored personnel carriers delivered to Iraq in October 2012. Cases of this batch could not be physically cooked in a cold workshop (spring, summer and autumn 2012 were quite hot).
    Touched by the arguments of the so-called experts
    The culprit of the marriage of cases recognized Lozovo Forge and Mechanical Plant (LKMZ)

    The APCs have not yet been unloaded or inspected, and the perpetrator has been appointed and punished.

    Even if these photos of the Iraqi armored personnel carriers of the second batch, it is embarrassing that the Iraqi side did not present any claims to this shield. On the cannons, only the lazy did not suck this information, but on the hulls - no. Data on cracks appeared after publications on the Dumskaya.net portal, like all subsequent photos, and not from the Iraqi Ministry of Defense, because the warranty period has not yet expired, and can I replace a defective APC with a new one?
    1. Corsair
      Corsair 6 January 2014 11: 55
      +4
      Quote: rolik2
      Can I change a defective APC to a new one?

      According to the trading rules for 2 weeks laughing
  • Akim
    Akim 6 January 2014 11: 45
    -1
    The culprit of the marriage of cases recognized Lozovo Forge and Mechanical Plant (LKMZ)

    If LKMZ set the marriage, then only the plant is to blame for them. Malysheva. which, this marriage took for assembly.
    But so far no cracks have been identified.
    1. Corsair
      Corsair 6 January 2014 11: 53
      +2
      Quote: Akim
      But so far no cracks have been identified.

      WelcomeAkim In the new year!
      But then it is necessary to "sound the alarm", to defend the honor and dignity of Ukrainian producers and exporters ...

      WHY Silence ???
      1. rolik2
        rolik2 6 January 2014 12: 03
        -1
        Quote: Corsair
        But then you need to "sound the alarm", oh

        What to beat about? Armored personnel carriers have not yet been unloaded or inspected. And why is there really a fig who knows, maybe there are cracks (then shame on the manufacturer), maybe not (then maybe ... laughing ) After the inspection will be seen. And trembling on an empty self is more expensive.
      2. Akim
        Akim 6 January 2014 12: 09
        -2
        Quote: Corsair
        But then you need to "sound the alarm," defend the honor and dignity of Ukrainian producers and exporters ..

        Happy New Year! Armored personnel carriers only, as two days unloaded. Now the holidays, but it is necessary to conduct a complete defect. It’s too early to say anything.
        1. Corsair
          Corsair 6 January 2014 12: 11
          +4
          Quote: Akim
          Armored personnel carriers only, as two days unloaded. Now the holidays, but it is necessary to conduct a complete defect.

          And for the sake of prestige, the powers could gobble and tear ...
          1. Akim
            Akim 6 January 2014 12: 16
            +1
            Quote: Corsair
            And for the sake of prestige, the powers could gobble and tear ...

            A few days will not solve anything, despite the fact that the Iraqis intentionally go to break the contract. Nobody will be lucky back.
            1. Corsair
              Corsair 6 January 2014 12: 27
              +2
              Quote: Akim
              despite the fact that the Iraqis intentionally go to break the contract.

              If there are cracks there, but I think THERE IS, then ANY in their place would break the agreement ...
              This is not a fact for me and you, but they "felt" them ...
              1. Akim
                Akim 6 January 2014 12: 39
                -1
                Quote: Corsair
                This is not a fact for me and you, but they "felt" them ...

                And before that they were women, did they feel something in Kharkov? Acts of initial acceptance, we have not seen, but since the vessel went to Iraq, their representatives took armored personnel carriers in Ukraine.
                1. Corsair
                  Corsair 6 January 2014 12: 45
                  +2
                  Quote: Akim
                  And before that they were women, did they feel something in Kharkov?
                  And who knows, maybe the women were "driven" to them, so that they were more compliant, they could have thrown off and "warm up" the money ...

                  This is all "ZAKULISE".
                  1. Akim
                    Akim 6 January 2014 12: 56
                    0
                    Quote: Corsair
                    This is all "ZAKULISE".

                    For the Egyptian officers there were women and a sauna in Kremenchug and they were taken to a nightclub and they hookah smoked there, but there the party of KrAZs was well received, and the Iraqis apparently were mentally weak.
                    1. Corsair
                      Corsair 6 January 2014 13: 20
                      0
                      Quote: Akim
                      and the Iraqis were apparently weak mentally.

                      But Arabs say they are born traders ... wassat laughing lol
                      1. Akim
                        Akim 6 January 2014 14: 00
                        0
                        Quote: Corsair
                        But Arabs say they are born traders ...

                        I have not been to Egypt, but acquaintances who rested say that they are not bargaining for that.
  • Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 6 January 2014 11: 54
    +11
    Ours in the late 90s, too, decided to play such games with the Chinese. Found the old MZKT chassis. To save on new ones. Painted, shamanized, installed equipment according to the contract and sent to customers. And those are not fools, upon their arrival they organized a march-throw at 500 km. After 60 km, both cars became due to brake failure due to destruction due to old rubber hoses of the braking system. Many then received a hat. Now this x ... th do not do.
    1. rolik2
      rolik2 6 January 2014 12: 06
      -1
      You are comrade Rurikovich probably not from smart Rurikovich will laughing Where will the old buildings come from? or do you think that they were cooked during the union? fool Here, either marriage or politics is not the third.
      1. Corsair
        Corsair 6 January 2014 12: 23
        +3
        Quote: rolik2
        Here, either marriage or politics is not the third.

        In vain are you so on Rurikovich, he wrote:
        Many then received a hat. Now this x ... th do not do.
        laughing
        1. rolik2
          rolik2 6 January 2014 12: 36
          -1
          Quote: Corsair
          In vain you are so on Rurikovich, he wrote:
          Many then received a hat. Now this x ... th do not do.

          If they didn’t catch it, it doesn’t mean that they don’t do it, we have it everywhere, where more is less, who has enough arrogance.
          1. Corsair
            Corsair 6 January 2014 12: 41
            +4
            Quote: rolik2
            If you do not catch it does not mean that they do not

            So he is from BELARUS, there you will not spoil the "father" ... fellow
          2. Rurikovich
            Rurikovich 6 January 2014 18: 21
            +3
            This is your trouble ... That's when all potential buyers turn away. then start turnip chuzhat and think what to do and how to be ...
          3. EvilLion
            EvilLion 6 January 2014 19: 58
            +1
            You, it means in Italy.
      2. Rurikovich
        Rurikovich 6 January 2014 18: 18
        +6
        Dear, in those years I worked at the Minsk factory, which equipped these very MZKT chassis with electronics and sat behind their wheel due to its clallification. And if more than one person told me that the chassis was taken from a party that had not found buyers at one time and had not been stored for several years in the open air for more than one month (or even a year), then IT'S BETTER to know the truth I say or not.
        Today, a lot of military equipment has been at storage bases since the days of the USSR. And it needs to be put somewhere. Another thing is if during the sale to potential buyers it will be disassembled to the screw and reassemble. And if not??? It can be seen this happened then. They just cheated. They didn’t look ...
        It’s just that I am inclined to believe that if you work, then work HONESTLY for principles, and not scandalously for the sake of money.
        But sometimes I said these chassis because there was a similar case with the MTLB chassis. But then at the time they changed their minds and went over completely, with the replacement of substandard parts.
        Therefore, I, as an agent, dare to ask you to apologize to me in connection with a doubt in my abilities and in my intellect, sir yes
        Then maybe I will forgive you hi
        1. rolik2
          rolik2 6 January 2014 18: 20
          -2
          Quote: Rurikovich
          Today, a lot of military equipment has been at storage bases since the days of the USSR. And it needs to be put somewhere. Another thing is if during the sale to potential buyers it will be disassembled to the screw and reassemble. And if not??? It can be seen this happened then.

          Maybe for fun show SOVIET BTR-4 ?????

          And at the expense of my mind

          Well, then we’ll discuss hi
          1. Rurikovich
            Rurikovich 6 January 2014 18: 42
            +3
            Our country is small. What we have is more than enough for us. If you need our developments, then read the news about Umka. I just described how in our time they tried to drive a hack.
            But if there will be buyers for our equipment, which, since the time of the Union, thousands of women have been at storage bases, then we’ll sell it, and boast about who I think more or better below my dignity. I just have enough that I know.
            The meaning was about proser..e contract.
            And we have enough other problems than spending money on inventing what to sell (not to blow away, but to sell) is not really possible.
            By the way, where is the apology ???
            1. rolik2
              rolik2 6 January 2014 18: 44
              -6
              Quote: Rurikovich
              The meaning was about proser..e contract.

              And who sifted it?
              In addition to these photos where there are no messages in the yellow press, there is nothing concrete
        2. Corsair
          Corsair 7 January 2014 00: 03
          +1
          Quote: Rurikovich
          Today, a lot of military equipment has been at storage bases since the days of the USSR.

          And it must be admitted in Belarus. STORAGE is 100% STORAGE, this was an article about it recently.
  • vostok1982
    vostok1982 6 January 2014 12: 28
    +3
    We blinded him from what was.
  • rolik2
    rolik2 6 January 2014 12: 53
    -5
    Che there to argue, unload armored personnel carriers will inspect. if there are cracks, we will sand the Ukrainian military-industrial complex, if it doesn’t, then it’s mo..lei laughing
  • Kars
    Kars 6 January 2014 13: 32
    +1
    All the same, the official information from the Iraqi representatives is interesting. So far, there is no information on the termination of the contract.
    1. Ascetic
      Ascetic 6 January 2014 16: 11
      +4
      Quote: Kars
      All the same, the official information from the Iraqi representatives is interesting. So far, there is no information on the termination of the contract.


      and it will not be. The penalties stipulated by the same contract will most likely follow. as was the case with the AN-32B aircraft when they set a fine for the failure of the contract in the amount of 165 thousand dollars. The same for BTR The penalty for the failure of the contract is 1% per month of the cost of the equipment not delivered (starting from the second month of the delay). Iraq has the right to demand no more than 10% of the total. And this is - 55 million dollars (including 9,9 million dollars for airplanes).
      An exception - Iraqi decision or force majeure like an earthquake, flood, or an international embargo.
      Therefore, the Iraqis themselves will not terminate the contract

      1. Kars
        Kars 6 January 2014 16: 13
        +1
        Quote: Ascetic
        Iraq has the right to demand no more than 10% of the total. And this is 55 million dollars.

        Not so scary. On the supply of spare parts beat off.
  • family tree
    family tree 6 January 2014 14: 35
    +4
    In addition, the Iraqi military during the operation of the BTR-4 was forced to replace the coolant with the one used in Iraq - due to the fact that the coolant of the equipment supplier did not lower the engine temperature to the required values. Also, for the Iraqi military, the reason for the leakage of pipelines on many Ukrainian armored personnel carriers remained unknown.

    According to Iraqi experts, test operation was carried out on high-quality roads and at not very high air temperatures (in the summer, the heat reaches 55 degrees), so the engine did not work at maximum load. But even in such circumstances, technology often broke down.

    They, too, did not like the two-stroke. It was necessary Tarasenko, translate into Arabic and give read what
    1. Alekseev
      Alekseev 6 January 2014 15: 39
      +6
      Quote: perepilka
      It was necessary Tarasenko to translate into Arabic and give read what

      This is completely useless, not for that they keep clerks like Tarasenka. wink
      That is why the case was cooked in some repair shops in Lozova?
      After all, at the time, Malyshev was cooked at the time, so cooked with the highest quality!
      And the process is not so complicated. At one time, he was organizing a brigade for welding an additional sheet of armor on the VLD of our tanks (after the adoption of a new BPS in NATO). So the soldiers were cooking there, under the guidance of a true specialist. Right in the parks of parts. And nothing, not any cracks.
      The conclusion, in my opinion, is clear. Normal production pro .. or. Contract money was shared by various intermediaries and "industrialists" like vultures falling like carcasses in the savannah.
      None of them (as you put it. Ivanovich) is not "Jawaharlal like Nyuru" yes. They were afraid that it was true that they would arrange a maidan.
      And here is the result. crying
      And what’s the reason: bodies with cracks, non-fire cannons, supermotors, coolants or something else is already secondary.
      Probably, just a little. request
  • Prapor-527
    Prapor-527 6 January 2014 14: 59
    +6
    Judging by the photo, if you fart hard in the landing, then the hull will fall apart to surprise the enemy ... smile
  • Timeout
    Timeout 6 January 2014 15: 31
    +10
    I sit and look at all these wonders of photoshopists. Himself in the distant pheasant past, welded 5th grade. For those who are not knowledgeable, I can explain how to cook with a semiautomatic device and in an inert gas environment, including copper-nickel alloys. Such breaks and cracks can only appear in very poor metal. Like German armor 44 years old, when ours cut off the supply of alloy metals. Rolled homogeneous armor is a type of steel used for armoring vehicles. The steel for the armor must be hard and ductile to withstand high velocity projectiles. Steel with similar characteristics is produced by rolling hot steel of a certain size to plates of the required thickness. Rolling reduces the number of weak points in the steel, which in turn increases its strength. Also, this procedure creates "steel fibers" inside the plates, which increases the stress resistance of the metal due to a more even distribution of the impact load throughout the plate. Rolled homogeneous armor is called so due to the fact that its structure and composition is uniform throughout its entire volume. In contrast to homogeneous steel, there is a heterogeneous (hardened) steel, the face of which is reinforced at the structural level. The front side of such steel (heterogeneous armor is obtained from a homogeneous one) after heat treatment (hardening) becomes less ductile, but more solid.
    So in Photoshop, it turns out that this is an ordinary tin ... There are times to not like the Ukrainians, but this is not a reason to spread rot. Kharkovites can create decent equipment, the t-80 is the answer!
    1. Timeout
      Timeout 6 January 2014 16: 23
      +3
      The most short-minded minus the obvious, I’ve seen this more than once ... And judging by the truncated scores not lower than half a pound. People, be obvious, if the great scribe touches, then it will touch everyone in the former union ... And it will not be a govnosrach in the internet!
      1. Motors1991
        Motors1991 6 January 2014 17: 32
        +3
        I completely agree with you, such cracks can form if glass was brewed, steel cannot crack like this, even cast iron does not burst, and then there are cracks in the body of the armor longer than 20 centimeters. If it were clear at the seam then, it would be possible write off the technology, and so the armor burst, what will happen to it, if it doesn’t even have a shell, but a bullet from a heavy machine gun gets hit, will fly apart like a crystal vase? The most interesting thing is that the seams are whole, there’s not a single badly cooked one, otherwise shown.
        1. Timeout
          Timeout 6 January 2014 18: 19
          +1
          Seams horseradish who will show. This is an indicator of quality. It all depends on the configuration of the welded parts. But the photo does not indicate more than one loaded. So everything published is a complete fake. I never considered my brothers to be idiots in order to release sucks on the international market ...
        2. Volkhov
          Volkhov 6 January 2014 23: 23
          +3
          Look at price lists for carbon steel with cementation and alloyed with nickel and vanadium - saving. The seams do not crack, because welding wire always doped with manganese at least.
          1. Timeout
            Timeout 7 January 2014 13: 35
            +2
            Quote: Volkhov
            carburized carbon steel

            If you are a little more careful, you should know that for a long time no one has released Harvey armor with high carbon content and surface cementation. All alloys used in the construction of the BTR and BMP of recent years are classified as light (based on aluminum) or ordinary rolled homogeneous.
            Quote: Volkhov
            and alloyed with nickel and vanadium

            And these are other types of armor. Learn respected materials science. No one will boil homogeneous armor with manganese wire. This is a complete violation of the technological cycle! Here you are for self-education http://popgun.ru/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=250226&start=750
            1. pensioner
              pensioner 8 January 2014 19: 05
              0
              Quote: Timeout
              Harvey
              Ha (p) dfilda maybe? 110G2l- (as an option) in Russia.
              Quote: Timeout
              no one has let out for a long time.

              They release it. yes In small volumes, but still poured.
    2. Walking
      Walking 8 January 2014 13: 51
      0
      Quote: Timeout
      Kharkovites can create decent equipment, the t-80 is the answer!


      It seems that the T-80 was made in Leningrad.
      1. Kars
        Kars 8 January 2014 14: 01
        +1
        Quote: Hiking
        It seems that the T-80 was made in Leningrad.

        Also in Kharkov and Omsk. And the T-80 of Leningrad received the first series of towers from T-64
  • valerei
    valerei 6 January 2014 15: 43
    -6
    In this case, our rulers betrayed the interests of Russia, having forgiven Iraq for its billions of dollars of debt, and Iraq, in turn, also betrayed Russia by buying defective APCs in Ukraine. This is the foreign policy of our rulers. Well, they shouted, well, forgiven - so not from your own pocket! But Russia and its population will somehow get killed, we don’t get used to being ragged, even by some Iraqis there.
    1. Rustam
      Rustam 6 January 2014 18: 09
      +7
      also betrayed Russia by buying defective APCs in Ukraine. This is the foreign policy of our rulers


      Yes, reading this, you understand that there are so many inadequate people living in their own world and their reality.
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 6 January 2014 18: 52
    +2
    In addition to these photos where there are no messages in the yellow press, there is nothing concrete [/ quote]
    There is no smoke without fire! By the bony signs you can always determine the answer that doesn’t give directly. Another thing is that there was only one defect, and the elephant was inflated from the flies. You need to fight for contracts with quality and terms, if you want and continue to receive them.
  • washi
    washi 6 January 2014 20: 37
    +3
    Some media outlets reported that 40 armored personnel carriers returned by the Iraqi side after arrival at the Odessa port will be inspected, and if there are damages or defects, repairs will be carried out on them.
    Sorry, but HOW can repair work be done on the HOUSING.
    A complete replacement is required.
    1. chunga-changa
      chunga-changa 6 January 2014 23: 02
      +4
      Brewing cracks is not difficult. It is not clear how to eliminate stress in the hull; without this, new cracks will appear continuously during exploitation.
      1. Volkhov
        Volkhov 7 January 2014 01: 36
        -1
        Cut gaps across the seams and weld with stainless wire.
    2. Corsair
      Corsair 7 January 2014 13: 15
      +2
      Quote: Vasya
      Sorry, but HOW can repair work be done on the HOUSING.

      Yes, HOW ... Here is SO: fellow
      "Lips smear" and look for a sucker who will buy them ...
  • Hitrovan07
    Hitrovan07 7 January 2014 00: 35
    0
    If the Ukrainians have learned to work again, now they need to work efficiently, so they will become part of the Russian Federation - the number will come and the quality will come.
    1. Akim
      Akim 7 January 2014 06: 18
      -6
      Quote: Hitrovan07
      here they will be part of the Russian Federation - on a count and quality will come.

      Get along. What a maneuver for some Russians to absorb neighboring states ?. Satisfy your appetites, at the beginning of Tajikistan, so that the gaster legally drove out of it.
      1. Rustam
        Rustam 8 January 2014 11: 57
        +3
        Akim get around. What a maneuver for some Russians to absorb neighboring states ?.


        Feed you? God forbid, you have one way to Eurointegration - and you’ll sell everything and everyone like Greece and Spain — maybe then it will come to you and your leaders that when everything is completely gone without Russian orders,well settled i'll look


        ps-you know what always shook me - eating from the table, but I always say that the owner of the table is a bad person and wants to absorb everyone (to put it mildly, it's a pity there is a filter)
        1. Akim
          Akim 8 January 2014 13: 02
          0
          Quote: Rustam
          eating from the table, but I always say that the owner of the table is a bad person and wants to absorb everyone (to put it mildly, it's a pity there is a filter

          The topic has gone away from the Batars - to hell with him. What does Ukraine gobble up at you? Recently I watched the last "Ural dumplings". When the western hemisphere of the brain of the "Ukrainian boy" chooses Santa Claus, and the eastern one is Father Frost. This is not true. Both Eastern and Western Ukraine celebrate a single holiday - St. Nicholas.
          And so it is in life: Russia is not the owner of the table, but also the buyer. like Europe. Only buys more valuable and technically sophisticated Ukrainian goods.
          1. Corsair
            Corsair 8 January 2014 13: 16
            0
            Quote: Akim
            Only buys more valuable and technically sophisticated Ukrainian goods.

            And this is a sign ....(It would be nice if you continued the proposal, setting out your view on the essence of your expression quoted by me).
            1. Akim
              Akim 8 January 2014 14: 23
              -3
              Quote: Corsair
              And this is a sign ...

              And this is a sign that Russia UNTIL such groups of Ukrainian goods are needed, until then in Russia they will not make import substitution and will not establish the need for production, in full, at home. And do not understand this, maybe except that durbetselo, like the Westerners on the Maidan, which require immediate European integration. Yanukovych simply took a respite from the inevitable.
              But, this does not mean that Russia is the master of the table. Now there are Ukrainian dishes on the table.
              1. Corsair
                Corsair 8 January 2014 14: 45
                0
                Quote: Akim
                Now there are Ukrainian dishes on the table.

                I do not argue, in general, your answer is arranged.
          2. Corsair
            Corsair 8 January 2014 13: 22
            +2
            Quote: Akim
            when the western hemisphere of the brain of the "Ukrainian boy" chooses Santa Claus, and the eastern one is Father Frost.

            This is nothing ...
            It's bad when a "Ukrainian boy" starts "turning his head" (or his back ...) "stirring the poles" ...

            THEN it is THEN it is not clear at all: "Where is he, WHO is he, and WHERE are his things ..."
          3. Cherdak
            Cherdak 8 January 2014 15: 08
            0
            Quote: Akim
            Russia is not the owner of the table, but also the buyer. like Europe. Only buys more valuable and technically sophisticated Ukrainian goods.
            1. Akim
              Akim 8 January 2014 15: 13
              0
              Quote: Cherdak
              Cherdak

              ?????????????????????????????????????
              1. Corsair
                Corsair 8 January 2014 23: 51
                +1
                Quote: Akim
                ?????????????????????????????????????

                !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! laughing
  • your1970
    your1970 7 January 2014 01: 55
    +2
    Quote: rolik2
    Quote: olp
    why are you so sure that they all stand in the holds?
    why are you so sure that even if they are standing in the holds it is impossible to inspect them?

    So where is the photo?
    The ship came 31 do you really think that we have people who want to work on New Year's Eve? Or did the Duma miss such an opportunity to raise its rating?

    I’m not sure about the ships in the port, on the railroad they load day and night both in NG and at Christmas, etc., because a simple wagon drips automatically and well on the fault of a non-unloaded person on the railway. By the way, that’s why holidays like hired movers pay more :).
  • hitech
    hitech 7 January 2014 03: 48
    +1
    Not guys, if you've already cheated, then learn to at least admit your mistakes, otherwise "I'm not me, and the house is not mine" (c)
  • tnship2
    tnship2 7 January 2014 13: 02
    +2
    This is a common casting defect. These cracks have nothing to do with welding. Well, Ukrainians know a lot about welding. But why did such sheets miss control? This is a question. And another question arose. Any welder with brains will say less-What to cure such a crack is the third grade of the second quarter. Generally there are no questions. Why left as it is? Just some kind of mess.
    1. Corsair
      Corsair 7 January 2014 13: 07
      +1
      Quote: tnship2
      This is a common casting defect. These cracks have nothing to do with welding

      But what, sheet armor is now LET, and not ROLL?
      Something is wrong with your comment ...
      Or am I just misunderstanding something?
      1. tnship2
        tnship2 8 January 2014 03: 31
        +1
        It happens. Inhomogeneities of the crystal lattice. Quenching structures. Another bunch of parameters that need to be carefully monitored. When rolling, cracks appear at the edges.
        1. starhina01
          starhina01 8 January 2014 16: 14
          0
          I agree with you to welding work, such damage doesn’t have a relationship most of all with the low-quality material from which these products are made hi
    2. Corsair
      Corsair 9 January 2014 00: 26
      0
      Quote: tnship2
      As far as welding is concerned, Ukrainians are a good judge.


      Sculpture "Motherland - Mother" in the city - the hero Kiev.


      Excerpt from Wikipedia :
      The metal frame is made of stainless steel, smelted in Zaporozhye. The steel plating was welded by experts of the Paton Electric Welding Institute from sheets of 50x50 cm in size, 1,5 mm thick. The total length of the joints was about 30 km. A sculpture of this size was made for the first time in the USSR. It was made at the Paris Commune factory in Kiev, taking into account the recommendations of the E.O. Paton Electric Welding Institute for welding stainless steel elements in separate blocks-sections weighing 25-30 tons. The height of the sculpture "Motherland" (from the pedestal to the tip of the sword) is 62 m.
      Total height with pedestal - 102 meters
      In one hand the statue holds an 16-meter sword weighing 9 t, in the other - a shield measuring 13 × 8 m with the emblem of the USSR (weighing 13 t)

      According to the conclusions of experts, the monument "Motherland" should stand for more than 150 years.

      From the following:
      Here HOW need to work!
  • stranik72
    stranik72 7 January 2014 13: 20
    +1
    Profit decides everything, "there are no crimes that the capitalist would not commit with the possibility of obtaining 300% of the profit" we have the same problems in Russia, just cry less (for now), and for the next years orders on helicopter topics from over the hill are significant decreased and one of the problems is the low quality of the supplied products. Although the MiG-29 with delivery to Algeria, it seems, should have scared our "trepmanegrs" because the real terms (though they have already amnestied the inmates) were received, but everything is not the same as before; production-manufacturing is cheaper, more expensive for sale = a bonus for yourself, and then not their problems.
  • Riperbahn
    Riperbahn 7 January 2014 14: 48
    +2
    This is a conspiracy against Ukraine! Could not putty for cosmetics for seams and cracks? Or wild Arabs shone them, as the Register seams ship hulls ???
  • kukara4an
    kukara4an 7 January 2014 16: 32
    +10
    LKMZ ... City Lozova, Kharkiv region. In the 70s, my father worked in the BTsRP (the workshop in which the armored personnel carriers were assembled). He spoke recently with his cousin, who finished working there until he retired and still has not lost touch with production. The work there is now carried out "on the knee", by hand - almost all the equipment was handed over to ferrous metal. My father, at one time, received up to 700 rubles there (can you imagine what 700 rubles is at a time when bread cost 16 kopecks and "Zhigul" - seven thousand?). But then there was a shot-blast and a heat chamber and other benefits of production - well, there is ventilation, etc. Now they pay three thousand a month. And a minimum of mechanization and other pleasures. Young people do not want to go to ruin their health, there are almost no intelligent specialists left - they died out like mammoths. Long live independence!
  • konvalval
    konvalval 7 January 2014 23: 44
    +1
    This is the result of the independence, independence, democratization, free market, in short, the collapse (and not collapse) of the Soviet Union.
  • Navuxonastupil
    Navuxonastupil 8 January 2014 03: 09
    +1
    As Zadornov says, well, dumb! For the whole batch of putty they regretted! Then, even if they split up in battle, we don’t know anything!
  • iSpoiler
    iSpoiler 8 January 2014 07: 51
    +2
    Haha BTR82, here is a wonderful BTR90 Berezhok, 4 cornet, 30mm machine gun and AGS30.
  • Petrol
    Petrol 8 January 2014 11: 37
    +2
    Well ... damn no good without a bad ... Maybe the motorized rifle regiment of Ukraine will receive (finally) modern equipment in the amount of 420 units ....
  • Badger
    Badger 8 January 2014 12: 46
    0
    Again Ukrainians patched up. They ruined their production, dismantled specialists, put politics above the economy and the result on the face. And svidomye blame the vile on everything.
  • stalkerwalker
    stalkerwalker 8 January 2014 15: 15
    +4
    If you do not take into account unclear details, given the absence of official comments from both sides, it seems that the Iraqi side wants to get high-quality armored vehicles at the price of a tram ticket.
  • Tex
    Tex 8 January 2014 21: 55
    -1
    Unfortunately, this situation with a violation of production technologies (and not so advanced ones) is no exception, this also applies to the defense industry and any other products, take at least spare parts for cars !! and by the way in Russia, too, the massive savings and the lack of qualified young specialists will ruin the leftovers Soviet factories, and there is only one prospect, to buy up a booty of artisans from the Middle Kingdom))
  • Kunar
    Kunar 15 January 2014 20: 53
    0
    Quote: Teks
    Unfortunately, this situation with a violation of production technologies (and not so advanced ones) is no exception, this also applies to the defense industry and any other products, take at least spare parts for cars !! and by the way in Russia, too, the massive savings and the lack of qualified young specialists will ruin the leftovers Soviet factories, and there is only one prospect, to buy up a booty of artisans from the Middle Kingdom))

    ....... And there, too, the Kunets are hereditary! Can’t forging .... lol
  • shelva
    shelva 24 January 2014 21: 51
    0
    Whatever crooks were mediators and contractors messed up. A shame - to offer defective weapons to the foreign market .., the USSR would be in shock. Given the existing competition, losing such an order is no definition.
    To make a weapon is not a "small change for your pockets" - you need to be able to do it.