Military Review

Under the sign of the North Star. Warships in the Arctic

73



A place where a person without special protective equipment dies in a few minutes. This is not the surface of the moon or distant Mars. This is the beloved Arctic of all - a territory extending above 66 ° 33 ′ s. sh. (Arctic Circle) and favorably differing from the rest of the Earth by a negative average annual temperature. In this case, under the "special protective equipment" understand the most insulated clothing and indoor areas with a mandatory source of heat.

As you know, a man in his original form is able to spend several days behind the ship and calmly transfer the air temperature above + 50 ° C. But in the Arctic, such tricks will not work. This place is more dangerous than the Sahara and the Californian Death Valley, taken together, is one careless step in the frosty mist, and the cold will turn the brave fellow into a ram's horn. In the morning, the comrades will find only a stiff mummy with forever bent limbs.

“The country of icy horror” - this was how the Norwegian Fridtjof Nansen described the Arctic after many years of expeditions in these parts.

An unavoidable obstacle to the development of these places is an endless winter night (the duration of the polar night depends on the latitude).
When the edge of the sun disk flashes again in the southeastern side of the sky, and the snowy landscape of the hills lights up with a soft pink light, the Holiday of the Sun is celebrated in Murmansk. Residents of Moscow and the Kuban do not understand why they are so happy in the thickened twilight of 300 thousands of lucky people - inhabitants of the world's largest city, built beyond the Arctic Circle.

The Arctic was not intended for human habitation. As if nature itself cursed this place, forever holding down the earth and the ocean with a layer of ice-resistant rock. Monotonous snowy landscape and endless night - among the polar explorers go mystical legends about the "white noise" and "call of the Polar Star". A strange mental disorder, known among the coast-dwellers as "meryarenie" - a person loses his mind and runs into the icy desert. According to legend, the unfortunate always run strictly north.

But no matter how harsh these northern territories are, they belong to us by right. Paraphrasing Admiral Essen: “We have no other waters. We will have to use these. ” And if so, the Russians had to master this unfit living area and learn to extract the maximum benefit from it.

The main treasure of the Arctic today is the Northern Sea Route (NSR) - a strategic transport route on the way from Europe to Asia; historically established national unified transport communication of Russia in the Arctic, stretching along the entire northern coast of the Urals, Siberia and the Far East.

Fighting for the Arctic Ocean

The length of the sea borders of the Russian state - 38 808 kilometers! Of which 19 724 km pass along the coast of the Arctic Ocean: the Barents, Kara, Laptev, East Siberian and Chukchi seas. Year-round navigation without icebreakers is possible only in the Barents Sea, off the coast of the Kola Peninsula - where the warm Gulf Stream warms the water and air, driving the ice far to the north. And then begins the “country of icy horror” - all ports of the Northern Sea Route, with the exception of Murmansk, work on 2-4 months of the year - during the summer-autumn navigation.

An obligatory attribute is the icebreaker fleet - contrary to the widespread statement about “the longest sea frontiers”, Russia de facto is the owner of the longest ice borders in the world. Multimeter pack ice covers us from the north direction more reliably than any Coast Guard and navy. With all the advantages and disadvantages.

The unique Arctic campaign of warships of the North fleetheld in September of the outgoing year, still raises mixed opinions: domestic and foreign analysts have expressed doubts about the advisability of the presence of the Peter the Great nuclear missile cruiser in high latitudes. To the question of whether such operations were previously conducted using surface warships, the former commander of the 5th Mediterranean Operational Squadron, the head of the Main Staff of the Navy, Admiral Valentin Selivanov answered directly:

No, we had nothing to do with it - just waste time and money. Ships go to sea or to combat training - the closer their range, the more economical and easier it is, or to combat service in the area of ​​potential contact with the enemy. On the Northern Sea Route, the enemy never existed. We had no reason to send ships there.


TARKR "Peter the Great" was created as a hunter for the convoys and ship groups of the enemy, but it is absolutely impossible to imagine the US Navy aircraft carrier group in the Kara Sea. First, for her there are no tasks. Secondly, the US surface fleet is categorically not adapted for operations in the Arctic.

The last time an enemy appeared in these waters during World War II was in August 1942, the heavy cruiser Admiral Scheer broke through to the Kara Sea. As a result, the raider was unable to catch up with the convoy on the way to the Velkitsky Strait - when Soviet ships and icebreakers crawled at 5 speed knots., The Germans hardly gave out 1-2 knots. Arctic nature turned the sea battle into a farce.



After wandering around the Kara Sea, the cruiser sank the icebreaking ship Sibiryakov in an unequal battle, unsuccessfully fired at the port of Dickson and retreated. The Germans did not dare to risk a super-ship for such useless results.
But that was then. Now things are different.

The uniqueness of the Arctic campaign 2013 of the year was that all the nuclear surface ships of Russia (the Navy cruiser and four icebreakers of Rosatomflot) participated in the operation.

It is impossible to remain indifferent to the view of the icebreakers “Yamal”, “Taimyr”, “Vaigach” and “50 Years of Victory” wading through the ice - power that knows no boundaries! These magnificent cars will pass where any other ship will get stuck forever and will be crushed under the onslaught of heavy ice. In 2013, the icebreaker “50 Years of Victory” celebrated a fantastic anniversary - it reached the North Pole for the hundredth time. These ships have unlimited autonomy for fuel reserves, a long-term supply of food on board, carry aircraft, the latest navigation and communication systems, and have the ability to destroy ice more than 2,5 meters thick. The true rulers of the Arctic - they are able to penetrate into any area of ​​this icy world.


"Taimyr" and "Vaigach". Handsome!

However, four icebreakers are a reason to think. To escort three warships and seven support vessels (TARKR Peter the Great, landing ships Kondopoga and Olenegorsky Miner, rescue tugs, medium sea transport and tanker) - the entire icebreaking fleet of Russia was needed to lead such a caravan to the coast of the Novosibirsk Islands ! Given that the campaign was carried out in the ideal time of year - the beginning of September, the height of navigation. When daytime air temperatures exceed 0 ° С, and the southern edge of pack ice moves far to the North.

No doubt, in the last decade, sailors have noted the simplification of the ice situation - at the beginning of the XXI century there were precedents when during a single navigation of the Northern Sea Route single ships passed without icebreaker escort. Pictures from space confirm the situation - the area of ​​ice in the Arctic has noticeably decreased.

But ... it was only to turn from the usual route - take a little to the north, in the direction of Fr. The boiler room (the Novosibirsk Islands archipelago), - and immediately needed the help of four nuclear-powered icebreakers!







Naive Canadians still hope that the melting of the Arctic ice will become irreversible - even a little bit, and the north-western passage in high latitudes along the northern coast of Canada will open. Direct competitor of the Russian SMP!

Hell no. The myth of global warming is a global deception - unscrupulous scientists and experts who exploit this hypothesis are not inclined to tell the whole truth. The amount of ice in the Arctic has really decreased. But at the same time, the ice shell of Antarctica, on the contrary, increased in thickness and size. The cycle of substances in nature!

It seems that we are dealing with some unexplored cyclic process between the northern and southern hemisphere - it is possible that in a few decades the Arctic will begin to drag on with ice again. Sweet dreams of banana palms on Franz Josef Land and arguments in the form of oil reserves on the Arctic shelf (100% evidence that lush tropical forests grew millions of years ago) should not lead the average man astray. It was hundreds of millions of years ago. And it will not happen again very soon.

We live in the coldest epoch in stories Land - all the fault of Antarctica. If on the place of ice-covered land in that place there was the Southern Ocean, then the climate on Earth would be fundamentally different. Antarctica is cooling the Earth, serving as an excellent reflector of sunlight and the storage of huge stocks of ice. Alas, we will not see any palm trees in high latitudes until this damned “refrigerator” crawls to another place, obeying the eternal movement of lithospheric plates.

In the meantime ... ships make their way through the cold water along the coast of Russia. The icebreaker leads a caravan - despite the broken, discharged ice, the crew activates the air wash system (POU - is used to reduce the friction of ice on the hull). This allows you to maximize the channel astern of the icebreaker and to facilitate the movement of ships and vessels in the wake of a wake. Without knowledge of such subtleties in the northern seas can not survive.

Under the sign of the North Star. Warships in the Arctic

The icing of the shafts of the towers of the Belfast cruiser group of companies during the wiring of the Arctic convoy



Shapeless ice figure - setting RBU-6000. Large anti-submarine ship "Admiral Isachenkov", Norwegian Sea, 1977



Ice-covered BOD "Admiral Yumashev"

The use of a squadron of surface warships in the Arctic presents considerable difficulties: the ships are constrained in maneuver. Such an unpleasant process as the icing will be an additional gift for trespassers of the northern waters. A terrible thing, during bad weather and a storm, it can in two accounts deactivate a ship, chaining all launchers, tools and radar with indestructible chains. Polar night, changeable weather, disgusting visibility - the rule rather than the exception for those latitudes. Obviously, even with assistance, in the form of nuclear-powered icebreakers, cruisers and destroyers (not to mention the Mistral) have absolutely nothing to do in the Arctic.

And yet there is single class warshipsable to challenge the primacy of nuclear-powered icebreakers in the fight for the title of Master of the Arctic.


The Nautilus was the first ship to reach the North Pole, 3 August 1958.

Black sleek submarines that rush to the North Pole without encountering any resistance. Nuclear submarines do not pay attention to the field of impassable pack ice, they are not afraid of the most severe frosts and polar blizzards. They do not suffer from icing and poor visibility. They are powerful, fast and able to navigate the Arctic Ocean at any time of the year.

Ice, on the contrary, is an ideal cover and protection for them - no aircraft can set up a sonar buoy or drop a torpedo. And no anti-submarine ship will be able to keep up with the submarine in those latitudes - it will firmly get stuck in the ice, without the ability to apply its weapon.

If necessary, the underwater acoustics will prompt the crew for the presence of ice-hole or ice of suitable thickness: the submarine will gently press against the inner surface of the ice, blow through the tanks and - voila! - scattering blocks of broken ice, rises to the surface. In this sense, the giant “Shark” was the most spectacular: thanks to its size, the heavy SSBN of 941 Ave could destroy the ice of two meters thick with its cabin!





Photos of the squadron of the Russian Navy in the Arctic - http://pavel-vish.livejournal.com
Author:
73 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. svskor80
    svskor80 30 December 2013 09: 00
    +22
    It will be cold or hot, it does not matter. We have to fight for the Arctic, besides with our traditions this is actually our habitat - which Canadians are sorry for.
    1. sledgehammer102
      sledgehammer102 30 December 2013 10: 38
      +11
      Quote: svskor80
      We have to fight for the Arctic, besides with our traditions this is actually our habitat - which Canadians are sorry for.


      Is it funny to everyone from the embarrassment that sea powers are trying to save our ship in the Antarctic? Where do they fight for the North Pole ....
      1. Lelek
        Lelek 30 December 2013 14: 08
        +7
        Our ship, but rented by Australia and the team gives the Australian leadership. stop
        1. Armata
          Armata 30 December 2013 20: 04
          +1
          To Oleg a question. When in the SF people fall overboard. Is it almost impossible to pump it out after 40 seconds? Extremely rare cases when it was revived.
          1. Santa Fe
            30 December 2013 20: 28
            +1
            Quote: Mechanic
            When in the SF people fall overboard. Is it almost impossible to pump it out after 40 seconds?

            That's why, Zhenya, this place is called the Arctic))
            1. Professor
              Professor 30 December 2013 21: 47
              -3
              Quote: Mechanic
              To Oleg a question. When in the SF people fall overboard. Is it almost impossible to pump it out after 40 seconds? Extremely rare cases when it was revived.

              Canadians also seem to be related to the Arctic. According to them, death will occur only after 5 minutes if without clothes and 8 minutes in clothes.
              1. haron
                haron 2 January 2014 18: 12
                +1
                Quote: Professor
                According to them, death will occur only after 5 minutes if without clothes and 8 minutes in clothes.

                Quote: Mechanic
                After 40 seconds, is it practically impossible to pump it out?

                Everything is logical. Within 5 minutes in water - you can die, do not call a pathologist. if it is not Sami or Icelander.
                We got it after 1 min (40 sec) - you can pump it out, but hard.
                The question is what to use for revitalization and who fell.
                Quote: Professor
                8 minutes in clothes.

                What clothes? Wetsuit or wool, Cotton, polystyrene ..
                1. Professor
                  Professor 3 January 2014 15: 25
                  -1
                  Quote: haron
                  The question is what to use for revitalization and who fell.

                  First aid for hypothermia

                  Hypothermia or hypothermia.

                  Quote: haron
                  What clothes? Wetsuit or wool, Cotton, polystyrene ..

                  Usually, light clothing such as a woolen tracksuit is meant.
            2. novobranets
              novobranets 31 December 2013 18: 38
              +6
              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              After 40 seconds, is it practically impossible to pump it out?

              Many die within a second, temperature shock, rupture of the heart.
  2. Know-nothing
    Know-nothing 30 December 2013 09: 03
    +6
    And yet there is only one class of warships capable of challenging the primacy of atomic icebreakers in the fight for the title of Master of the Arctic.

    Not just a class in itself, but with a perfect torpedo weapon, equipped with excellent sonar countermeasures, working with integrated lighting systems for underwater and surface situations, which are served by professionals.

    If this is not the case, but the opposing side has it, then in case of conflict the submarine turns into a mass grave.
  3. smart ass
    smart ass 30 December 2013 09: 20
    +2
    Oleg well done! First wanted to put a plus sign, but did not have time)
    1. Panikovsky
      Panikovsky 30 December 2013 12: 29
      +4
      This is a New Year’s article under Kaptsov on Mondays.
  4. Professor
    Professor 30 December 2013 10: 00
    +7
    As you know, a person in its original form is able to spend several days overboard and calmly transfer air temperatures above + 50 ° C.

    Not at all. Transfer plus 50 only for a short period of time. The body temperature will reach 42 degrees, the protein will collapse and the funeral for mom. Now, about the fact that "a man in his original form is able to spend several days outside the ship." During the course of rendering assistance to an emergency nuclear submarine, we were given a chipboard for literature, among which was a book on human survival in an extreme environment (the Nazis made such books mocking our prisoners of war). There was a table of survival time as a function of temperature (in clothing and in its original form, in the presence of currents and food). I remember even then it struck me how at a water temperature of plus 30 degrees, the time a person can stay in it can be quite limited. The answer is simple, hypothermia occurs at a body temperature of plus 33 degrees, a little lower, and again a funeral. So if you paddle in its "original form" warming yourself up from the inside, then the marathon runner can survive in the warm Mediterranean Sea for several days, but this will be the exception rather than the rule.
    1. Santa Fe
      30 December 2013 13: 01
      +7
      Quote: Professor
      Transfer plus 50 only for a short period of time. Body temperature will reach 42-x degrees

      The human body is not a stone. It will take a long time to heat up
      Natural Thermoregulation Mechanisms - Moisture Evaporation
      Finally, if you don’t stand by the idol, but put on an awning, drink water, leftovers - pour t-shirts behind the collar ... Thanks to such SIMPLE measures, you can easily survive for weeks

      In the Arctic - even dancing, even in the shade, even in the sun, with such an arsenal (awning, T-shirt, bottle of water), you’ll recline in a couple of minutes
      Quote: Professor
      I remember even then it struck me how at a water temperature of plus 30 degrees the time a person was in it could be completely limited

      I don’t know, prof, what the Germans counted there
      Here's a real case: the sinking of the cruiser Indianapolis, July 30, 1945
      From 1196 sailors - 300 drowned with the ship
      They did not have time to lower the boats, ~ 880 people remained in the water.
      THREE DAYS, 2 of August, the rescuers managed to raise from the water 317 zinger.
      There could have been much fewer victims, but most Yankees ate sharks.
      Here is the alignment for three days

      Drowned Indianapolis in the equatorial region of the Pacific Ocean, 12 city. N

      1. Professor
        Professor 30 December 2013 13: 29
        -2
        Quote: Professor Migrate plus 50 only for a short period of time. Body temperature will reach 42 degrees
        The human body is not a stone. It will take a long time to heat up

        Not at all for long. Stone, unlike the human body, does not have a metabolism and does not heat up by itself. Nevertheless, if you lie in the shade and drink a soda, and even turn on the air conditioning, this is one. And if at plus 50 to run leisurely 3 km, then there will be units of survivors. The EMNIP marathon in Copenhagen is indicative when, due to the 30-degree heat, a couple dozen well-trained athletes finished at the cemetery. Last year, a dozen in a coma at a TLV marathon, one in a cemetery, and this at a temperature of only 28 degrees.

        Natural Thermoregulation Mechanisms - Moisture Evaporation
        Finally, if you don’t stand by the idol, but put on an awning, drink water, leftovers - pour t-shirts behind the collar ... Thanks to such SIMPLE measures, you can easily survive for weeks

        Eskimos survive for months in harsh conditions and even breed and multiply. Is it worth therefore to judge about the Arctic conditions?

        Quote: professor I remember when I was struck by how at a water temperature of plus 30 degrees the time a person can stay in it can be quite limited
        I don’t know, prof, what the Germans counted there
        Here's a real case: the sinking of the cruiser Indianapolis, July 30, 1945
        From 1196 sailors - 300 drowned with the ship
        ~ 880 people remained in the water without boats.
        After THREE DAYS, on August 2, rescuers managed to raise 317 livestock from the water.
        There could have been much fewer victims, but many Yankees were eaten by sharks.
        Here is the alignment for three days

        Drowned Indianapolis in the equatorial region of the Pacific Ocean, 12 city. N

        I was taught this not by the Germans, but in our Soviet Black Sea Fleet, teaching me a military specialty. During exercises in the Black Sea to rescue the crew of a submarine in a depressurized compartment, it usually turned out that the crew conditionally died
        a) from a lack of oxygen,
        b) from hypothermia
        even before we had time to get to the place from Sevastopol. By the way, as you know, they were not naked in the compartment ...
        I understand that the Russian proverb says that there are more frostbite than scalded bones and it doesn’t break bones, but I would not neglect the temperature of plus 50. No T-shirt will save you and you won’t have enough water to drink - heat stroke however.
        1. Santa Fe
          30 December 2013 14: 08
          +6
          Quote: Professor
          if you lie in the shade and drink soda, and even turn on the air conditioner is one thing.

          There was no talk about air conditioning
          Quote: Professor
          Eskimos survive for months in harsh conditions and even breed and multiply. Is it worth therefore to judge about the Arctic conditions?

          A little like the naked Papuans from Polynesia

          Quote: Professor
          On exercises in the Black Sea

          World Cup considered cold
          1. Professor
            Professor 30 December 2013 14: 54
            -1
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            There was no talk about air conditioning

            And without them, at + 50 degrees, a fighter is not a tenant.

            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            A little like the naked Papuans from Polynesia

            Nevertheless, they have been surviving there for thousands of years. I think hardly anyone will argue with this. In Polynesia, +50 IMHO does not happen. wink

            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            World Cup considered cold

            Again. Even in the warm Black Sea, the crew of the submarine located chest deep in water did not survive (fortunately conditionally) before the deployment of rescuers, and this despite the fact that we had their coordinates. And if they still had to look for them, then they would have practically no chance.
            1. saturn.mmm
              saturn.mmm 30 December 2013 17: 02
              +1
              Quote: Professor
              Again. Even in the warm Black Sea

              In Sochi, the water temperature in the World Cup, at the end of June, is approximately 15 degrees. in Celsius, you kind of worked at a factory in Nikolaev, compared to the Laptev Sea (cold flow) is warm.
              1. Professor
                Professor 30 December 2013 17: 44
                0
                Quote: saturn.mmm
                In Sochi, the water temperature in the World Cup, at the end of June, is approximately 15 degrees. in Celsius, you kind of worked at a factory in Nikolaev, compared to the Laptev Sea (cold flow) is warm.

                As the Navy taught us: do not confuse the southern coast of the North Sea with the northern coast of the Black Sea. laughing And again, to the temperature, even in the Black Sea in the summer in the heat, a person will not survive for a long time and die from hypothermia. sad
                1. saturn.mmm
                  saturn.mmm 30 December 2013 18: 25
                  +1
                  Quote: Professor
                  And again, to the temperature, even in the Black Sea in the summer in the heat, a person will not survive for a long time and die from hypothermia.

                  So I’m talking about the same, only the Black Sea is not warm, the water warms up properly by mid-July, and before that meltwater from the Dnieper and Don. Due to the warm current in the summer in the coastal, southern regions of the Barents Sea, the temperature is 10-12 degrees Celsius , almost like on Black until July.
                  1. Beast
                    Beast 31 December 2013 17: 17
                    +2
                    I could not hold out in the White Sea for more than five minutes, and this taking into account that I was very young and hot and the air temperature was under 30 and it was mid-summer. Yes, at about 10 degrees the temperature of the water.
                2. ICT
                  ICT 30 December 2013 18: 36
                  +1
                  Quote: Professor
                  supercooling.
                  '

                  this is understandable, in childhood he stuck out in the water until he turned blue on his lips until he was kicked out.
                  but as if a real example
                  cold. the crew of the submarine "Komsomolets" seems to have blocked all the standards of the Black Sea Fleet, it was there that the campaign was not correctly taken people out after hypothermia, somewhere data with numbers came across. but not at hand

                  here I’m serving a video to the Soviet Union 1989 (I watched it myself at school. I'll review later)
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEre0gnQxhQ
                3. Santa Fe
                  30 December 2013 18: 43
                  0
                  Quote: Professor
                  And again, to the temperature, even in the Black Sea in the summer in the heat, a person will not survive for a long time and die from hypothermia

                  At least 12 hours will last
            2. Santa Fe
              30 December 2013 18: 40
              +1
              Quote: Professor
              And without them, at + 50 degrees, a fighter is not a tenant.

              You take an extreme case
              If worn like crazy in the sun, then you can grab a heat stroke and drop your hooves with plus 30

              That's not the point!
              If the task is to SURVIVE, it is enough to have an awning with a T-shirt and a bottle of water (let 5 l). Enough of these simplest waysto feel comfortable with + 50

              In the Arctic, something more is needed to survive. A complete set of warm clothes with shoes, hat and mittens. Well-insulated room and source of fire, fuel. Hot tea and high-calorie food
              Quote: Professor
              Nevertheless, they have been surviving there for thousands of years.

              Why, they don’t run naked
              Quote: Professor
              Even in the warm Black Sea, the crew of the submarine located chest deep in water did not survive (fortunately conditionally) before the deployment of rescuers

              317 people survived from the crew of the Indianapolis cruiser. Three days. Let's argue with the obvious?

              World Cup - 45 Latitude. This is a very cold sea, from the point of view of Indians, Filipinos, Italians and other inhabitants of the southern countries

              Fur liners for polar explorers' boots, the so-called "untenok". These are the means you need to survive in those conditions.
              1. Professor
                Professor 30 December 2013 21: 37
                -2
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                At least 12 hours will last

                I definitely can’t say this; there is no table at hand. How long it lasts depends on the presence of currents (washing with water), temperature, what is dressed, age, physical fitness, fatigue, what I ate and drank before that.
                PS
                Will not last, see table below. sad

                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                If the goal is to SURVIVE, it is enough to have an awning with a T-shirt and a bottle of water (even 5 liters). Enough of these simplest ways to feel comfortable at +50

                Do not bend. Drive to the Arava Valley in the summer with a bottle, there are only about 40. I guarantee a heat stroke by the evening despite the t-shirt. About comfortable feeling at +50 you specifically turned down. This is a very dangerous temperature in the shade.

                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                In the Arctic, something more is needed to survive.

                And no one says that to survive in the Arctic is a trifling matter. Nevertheless, even the Eskimos live there for thousands of years without tea, down jackets and thermal packages.

                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                317 people survived from the crew of the Indianapolis cruiser. Three days. Let's argue with the obvious?


                Glad for them and their loved ones. Nevertheless, hypothermia is fatal even at a temperature of +33 degrees. Unfortunately, an instruction with a survival table for the USSR Navy cannot be provided.

                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                World Cup - 45 Latitude. This is a very cold sea, from the point of view of Indians, Filipinos, Italians and other inhabitants of the southern countries

                Do not believe me, but I can see through the window the warm Mediterranean Sea. In summer, the water temperature is +30, but even then you can die from hypothermia in it.

                For the road. Survival in cold water - look at the graphs and tables.

                http://www.tc.gc.ca/publications/en/tp13822/pdf/hr/tp13822e.pdf

                http://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/2010/fishing_vessel/presentations/5-Hiscock-CBro




                oks-Survival-In-Cold-Water-2001.pdf


                1. Santa Fe
                  30 December 2013 22: 12
                  +2
                  Quote: Professor
                  Will not last, see table below

                  The table is interesting, but there is a real story - the death of the leader "Kharkov" and two destroyers of the Black Sea Fleet, October 6, 1943
                  The tragedy occurred in the area with the coordinates of 44 grad. 15 min N, 36 city 00 min east

                  The surviving sailors kept on the water. The third wave of low-level bombers shot at the sailors and continued to bomb the destroyer Svobodny, which was rescuing the crews of sunken ships from the water. A strong explosion of depth charges took place on it. At 18 hours 35 minutes, the ship began to quickly sink into the water ...I had to swim in cold water for one day, for two, the last sailor was picked up only on the fourth day. In total, the arrived boats were able to pick up 123 people from the water. 692 died.


                  Let's argue with the obvious?
                  Quote: Professor
                  Drive to the Arava Valley in the summer with a bottle, there is only about 40. I guarantee a heat stroke by the evening despite the t-shirt.

                  You forgot about the awning!
                  + 40 in the tropical sun - that's all 70
                  Quote: Professor
                  at + 50 you specifically bent. This is a very dangerous temperature in the shade.

                  + 50 and -50 (no sun)
                  in which case the undressed person will live longer
                  Quote: Professor
                  Glad for them and their loved ones. Nevertheless, hypothermia is fatal even at a temperature of + 33 degrees.

                  But they survived, being in the water for three days!
                  Obviously, death from hypothermia required a little longer in the ocean
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 30 December 2013 22: 20
                    0
                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    Let's argue with the obvious?

                    1. The group will live longer. Moreover, it is not clear whether they were in the water or on watercraft at hand.
                    Survive in cold water

                    2. You open two links. These are official documents of the Canadian government. Will we argue with them? wink

                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    You forgot about the awning!
                    + 40 in the tropical sun - that's all 70

                    Where without a tent? We a priori temperature + 50 in the shadow measurements. By the way do you know why? wink

                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    + 50 and -50 (no sun)
                    in which case the undressed person will live longer

                    We decided to throw them naked? Is it like in the Terminator? laughing

                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    But they survived, being in the water for three days!

                    Let's say wet. because we do not know what they were sitting on ...

                    PS
                    Men survive many times more than women, and fat more than thin.
                    1. Santa Fe
                      30 December 2013 23: 10
                      0
                      Quote: Professor
                      Will we argue with them?

                      We will.
                      Because there are real precedents proving the opposite

                      http://nita.spox.ru/ru/blog/3361.plovets_ekst.html - 28 часов в Боденском озере без гидрокостюма, при Т воды 18 град. Пусть даже он закаленный, с обмазанным телом и пару раз принимал горячие напитки. Но 28 часов!! При такой низкой температуре воды

                      http://www.internovosti.ru/text/?id=72410 - 60 часов в воде. Спортсменку испугал не холод, а медуза (плыла без костюма)
                      Quote: Professor
                      Where without a tent? We a priori temperature + 50 in the shadow measurements. By the way do you know why?

                      Well then, everything is in order. If there is a bottle of water, an awning (umbrella) and there is no place to rush - the terrain will be passed
                      Quote: Professor
                      + 50 and -50 (no sun)
                      in which case the undressed person will live longer
                      We decided to throw them naked?

                      Put on slates, shorts and a T-shirt. Give both 5 liters of water and a parasol.
                      Who will die first?
                      Quote: Professor
                      Nevertheless, even the Eskimos live there for thousands of years without tea, down jackets and thermal packages.

                      With down jackets, tea and a warm house with a heat source. Living or surviving is another matter.
                      Quote: Professor
                      Let's say wet. because we do not know what they were sitting on ...

                      Well, since their sharks were eating, do you think they were sitting
                      Most didn't even have cork vests.
                      1. Professor
                        Professor 31 December 2013 12: 38
                        0
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        http://nita.spox.ru/ru/blog/3361.plovets_ekst.html - 28 часов в Боденском озере без гидрокостюма, при Т воды 18 град. Пусть даже он закаленный, с обмазанным телом и пару раз принимал горячие напитки. Но 28 часов!! При такой низкой температуре воды

                        Lyrics again? A fat man, smeared with grease and heated from the inside to row to a loss of strength ... A normal man would have survived in such water 1:45 (see the documents I laid out earlier).

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        http://www.internovosti.ru/text/?id=72410 - 60 часов в воде. Спортсменку испугал не холод, а медуза (плыла без костюма)

                        Again, an athlete with an accompanying boat. It is not known what she is wearing, how she was warming herself, etc.

                        In all the examples you have given, there is no "man in his original form capable of spending several days outside the ship and calmly transferring the air temperature above + 50 ° C." But the documents I have cited show that a person outside the ship has not been a tenant for a long time.

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Well then, everything is in order. If there is a bottle of water, an awning (umbrella) and there is no place to rush - the terrain will be passed

                        No, it will not. In a heat of 30 degrees, you need to consume a liter per hour. Any IDF soldier knows this. At 50 degrees, no sweating is enough to cool the body to a safe temperature - "you can't take that much water and drink it." And if the humidity is still about 80%, then sweating generally rests since evaporation is very weak.
                      2. saturn.mmm
                        saturn.mmm 31 December 2013 15: 40
                        +2
                        Quote: Professor
                        And if the humidity is still about 80%, then the perspiration generally rests as the evaporation is very weak.

                        In traditional Russian steam baths, they are steamed with wet steam with a moisture content of up to 60-70% at a temperature of 50-60 degrees and certainly with a broom.
                        Have you ever been to a Russian bath?
                        That's about sweating, if interested.
                        http://teplodaryug.ru/banya/pot-v-bane.html
                        Happy New Year! Happiness and health to you, peace and quiet to your country!
                      3. Professor
                        Professor 31 December 2013 17: 30
                        0
                        Quote: saturn.mmm
                        Happy New Year! Happiness and health to you, peace and quiet to your country!

                        And all the same to you. drinks
                      4. saturn.mmm
                        saturn.mmm 31 December 2013 22: 43
                        +2
                        Quote: Professor
                        Quote: saturn.mmm
                        Happy New Year! Happiness and health to you, peace and quiet to your country!
                        And all the same to you.

                        Thank. Perhaps I will add something to the wish, I think you will not mind.
                        Happy New Year! Happiness and health to you. Peace, peace and prosperity to your country!
                      5. Professor
                        Professor 31 December 2013 23: 37
                        -1
                        Quote: saturn.mmm
                        Peace, peace and prosperity to your country!

                        There will be no peace anyway, but otherwise I agree.
                      6. saturn.mmm
                        saturn.mmm 1 January 2014 03: 24
                        +2
                        Quote: Professor
                        There will be no peace anyway, but otherwise I agree.

                        Man suggests and God disposes.
                        Your situation is really complicated. But you do not occupy worldly wisdom.
                      7. Professor
                        Professor 2 January 2014 11: 21
                        -1
                        Quote: saturn.mmm
                        Your situation is really complicated. But you do not occupy worldly wisdom.

                        For the world, the desire of at least two parties is necessary, and this is a problem.
            3. Bad_gr
              Bad_gr 4 January 2014 00: 18
              +3
              Quote: Professor
              At 50 degrees, no sweating is enough to cool the body to a safe temperature - "you can't take that much water and drink it."

              I was in Jalalobad (Afghanistan) in 1983 in August - it was 75 in the sun, I don’t know in the shade (probably around 50). You will go into the washbasin, soak a T-shirt, on yourself and again on the street (mounted a diesel power station at the hospital) for some time you feel quite comfortable. By the way, in wet clothes, you can go out in the sun and catch a cold (water evaporates from the clothes and draws heat out of the body).
              We lived in a module, with air conditioning. But with the air conditioner turned on, the room was over 30. It was practiced to wet a sheet under the tap, and then she should take cover. The sheet dried out in about 40 minutes. Well, it’s at night, but in the afternoon it’s already managed. By the way, when you enter a room from the street, the body sometimes got goosebumps - it seemed that it was cold (I remind you that the room is under 30).

              Only the flies were worse than the heat.
            4. Professor
              Professor 4 January 2014 13: 16
              -1
              Quote: Bad_gr
              I was in Jalalobad (Afghanistan) in 1983 in August - it was 75 in the sun, I don’t know in the shade (probably around 50).

              I don’t want to sound boring, but there is no such thing as "air temperature in the sun." For two reasons:
              1. Place the thermometer in the sun and you will not measure the temperature of glass or thermocouples exposed to solar radiation. Indications will not be related to air temperature. For example a solar boiler. On a sunny day, at an air temperature of 20 degrees, the water easily heats up to +60.
              2. Air has poor thermal conductivity and its temperature in the shade where the thermometer is installed and side by side "in the sun" is practically the same.



              Quote: Bad_gr
              Only the flies were worse than the heat.

              In the Arava valley, the number of flies is not real - clouds. In the "barracks" a blue lamp also helps a plastic bag with water. These flies bring the greatest harm to farmland. They fight them with an interesting method. They raise sterile males and release millions of these flies from the plane. Of course, they do not leave a legacy and the population of these parasites is greatly reduced.
              PS
              In +40 heat, even flies "wither". hi
            5. Bad_gr
              Bad_gr 5 January 2014 09: 55
              0
              Quote: Professor
              In the "barracks" a blue lamp also helps a plastic bag with water.
              Before going to bed, everyone took up fly swatter, and in the room they destroyed all the flies. If at least one is left, she won’t be able to sleep: even if she wraps herself in a sheet with her head, she’ll surely find a hole, crawl under the sheet and run around the body. In addition, they are carriers of infection: a fly can fly into the toilet, and then into the kitchen and go over the bread. As a result, hepatitis or typhoid fever. He was in parts where up to 98% of all personnel had these diseases.

              By temperature, I can add that in the evening, standing on the street, if you turn your head in one direction, and then in the other, then with air it burns first one cheek, then the other. Like in the steam room. This is me about the same Jalalobad.
              In August (1983), three of the soldiers died of heat in DSB.

              Where the thermometer stood, which showed the temperature, I won’t say - the figure was voiced by the fighters, it didn’t even cross-check. But with us the thermometer is usually placed on the window frame so that the readings can be seen from the room.
      2. Professor
        Professor 31 December 2013 12: 38
        0
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Put on slates, shorts and a T-shirt. Give both 5 liters of water and a parasol.
        Who will die first?

        How did I miss when the competition began? request In fact, both will die. 5 liters is like a dead poultice.

        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        With down jackets, tea and a warm house with a heat source. Living or surviving is another matter.

        Eskimos live, not survive, and even breed hundreds of years if not millennia. No one there forcibly holds them. And imagine, they even come out of their shelters with a source of heat. But few live in +50.
        By the way, what does the Eskimo toilet look like? wink

        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Well, since their sharks were eating, do you think they were sitting
        Most didn't even have cork vests.

        Fell asleep, slipped from the barrel and ...

        Let's summarize. "man in his original form NOT able to spend several days overboard (and only with the help of melt means and heat sources) and Not able to calmly transfer the air temperature above + 50 ° C " even for one day... Rare exceptions don't prove the rule. Hypothermia leads to death when the body temperature drops to +33 degrees, heatstroke does the same at +42. As proof, I cited official documents with a sea of ​​links. If anyone is interested in the topic, then let them google "water immersion survival" and he himself will be killed how fragile the human body is. hi
      3. Santa Fe
        31 December 2013 16: 36
        -1
        Quote: Professor
        In fact, both will die

        Who will die first.
        Light clothing, water, a parasol. + 50 and -50

        It's time to confess, Prof. - cold is much more dangerous for a person than heat.
        Quote: Professor
        Hypothermia leads to death when the body temperature drops to + 33 degrees

        The health team was monitored by a whole team of doctors - they measured pressure, pulse, temperature. The swimmers had no deep hypothermia - body temperature did not fall below 32 degrees.
        http://prm.ru/sport/275699/
        Quote: Professor
        At 50 degrees, no sweating is enough to cool the body to a safe temperature - "you can't take that much water and drink it." And if the humidity is still about 80%, then sweating generally rests since evaporation is very weak.

        You might think you've never been in a sauna

        The world record for men in this sport is about 18-19 mines in 2000-2004 years.
        Conditions in the SS - the temperature is around 100 ° С - it is still without steam (according to the conditions of the competition 2010 in the final, the temperature can reach 120 ° С). The publications do not indicate temperature and humidity with steam supply.
        As already mentioned, once every 30 sec half a liter of water is poured onto hot stones (Fig. 10.4).

        Quote: Professor
        Fell asleep, slipped from the barrel and ...

        Nothing like this

        A lot of men were without life jackets. The kapok life jacket is designed with a space in the back. Those who had life jackets that were injured, you could put your arm through that space and pull them up on your hip and keep them out of the water. And the men were very good about doing this. Further more, those with jackets supported men without jackets.

        ... The second night, which was Monday night, we had all the men put their arms through the life jacket of the man in front of him and we made a big mass so we could stay together. We kept the wounded and those who were sickest in the center of the pack and that was my territory. Some of the men could doze off and sleep for a few minutes. The next day we found a life ring. I could put one very sick man across it to support him.

        The water in that part of the Pacific was warm and good for swimming. But body temperature is over 98 and when you immerse someone up to their chin in that water for a couple of days, you're going to chill him down. So at night we would tie everyone close together to stay warm. But they still had severe chills which led to fever and delirium. On Tuesday night some guy began yelling, 'There's a Jap here and he's trying to kill me.' And then everybody started to fight. They were totally out of their minds. A lot of men were killed that night. A lot of men drowned. Overnight everybody untied themselves and got scattered in all directions. But you couldn't blame the men. It was mass hysteria. You became wary of everyone. Till daylight came, you weren't sure. When we got back together the next day there were a hell of a lot fewer.

        They lasted in the water for 110 hours.
        Someone without saved. vests, one saved. circle at all. 317 survivors
      4. Professor
        Professor 31 December 2013 17: 25
        0
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        It's time to confess, Prof. - cold is much more dangerous for a person than heat.

        37 degrees normal temperature, 33 death, 42 death. The take-off run is 4 and 5 degrees, respectively, and the difference in degrees. So arithmetically you are right. laughing
        Which is more dangerous? When it is very cold, you can get dressed. When it’s very hot, you won’t tear off the skin.

        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        The health team was monitored by a whole team of doctors - they measured pressure, pulse, temperature. The swimmers did not have deep hypothermia - the body temperature did not drop below 32 degrees.

        hypothermia
        Deadly (below 33 C)

        You might think you've never been in a sauna

        I went to the sauna and was a "walrus" when I lived in Ukraine. In both cases, the time I spent in extreme temperatures was calculated in minutes.

        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        They lasted in the water for 110 hours.
        Someone without saved. vests, one saved. circle at all. 317 survivors

        Do you need to translate everything? They kept those who were without lifejackets, and most importantly: they were stacked.

      5. Santa Fe
        31 December 2013 18: 23
        0
        Quote: Professor
        When it's very cold, you can get dressed

        If you have something to dress
        Quote: Professor
        When it’s very hot, you won’t tear off the skin.

        Practice shows that + 50 - subject to minimum security measures (shadow, drink, without heavy physical stress) - a person can exist for a long time and fun in its natural form
        Who will die first.
        Light clothing, water, a parasol. + 50 and -50

        again the same question
        Quote: Professor
        They kept those who were without lifejackets, and most importantly: they were stacked.

        So, what is next. The simplest measure lasted three days

        Expose the entire Indianapolis crew in the same form in 40-degree frost. How many survivors will be on the third day? (allowed to stack)
      6. Professor
        Professor 31 December 2013 23: 35
        0
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        If you have something to dress

        Engaged in demagoguery? And if there is no water at +50? belay

        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        So, what is next. The simplest measure lasted three days

        And then the fact that they were not "in their original form" and for some reason not all survived. In "its original form" see attached table of survivability - materiel however.

        So, did you read my links about water survivability? Do you lie bastards? wink
      7. Santa Fe
        1 January 2014 16: 43
        0
        Quote: Professor
        And if there is no water in + 50?

        They lived for 8 days, having with them a single flask
        with drink, they walked more than 100 miles (160 km) in the monstrous heat. The remains of five of them were found in 80 miles (130 km) from the crash site.

        (The story of the death of the crew of B-24 (Lady be good). Libyan desert. April 1943)

        What do you think, having similar clothes and a flask of water, the crew of the "Liberator" would have gone a long way in a frost of minus 40 ... 50 degrees. FROM?
        Quote: Professor
        So, did you read my links about water survivability? Do you lie bastards?

        At T water 4,4 deg. C - time to loss of consciousness (death?) Is defined in 10 seconds.

        This is a lie - just look at the bathing hole in the hole on the feast of Baptism. He himself was a witness in Chelyabinsk, on the lake. Smolino people bathed at minus 20. short run - descent into the ice hole on a wooden staircase - swim for 5 meters - climb up the same stairs - then run 20 meters to a tent with warm tea. In ice water, citizens spent at least 10-15 seconds (and some dived and bathed longer, in swimming trunks alone). No death or loss of consciousness.
        Quote: Professor
        So, did you read my links about water survivability?

        And you answered the question:
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Who will die first.
        Light clothing, water, a parasol. + 50 and -50

        Quote: Professor
        And then the fact that they were not "in their original form"

        weak excuse

        Even from your tables (which I don’t really trust) it follows that clothing extends the time spent in water by only 25%.

        Heaping is also not capable of radically affecting anything.

        And yet, people held out in the water THREE DAYS! 317 saved
      8. Know-nothing
        Know-nothing 1 January 2014 21: 57
        0
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        they walked more than 100 miles (160 km) through the monstrous heat.

        Most likely they walked at night, and at night in the desert (let the professor correct me) it is cool.
      9. Santa Fe
        1 January 2014 22: 39
        +1
        Quote: Dunno
        Most likely they walked at night, and at night in the desert (let the professor correct me) it is cool.

        No matter how they walked. The fact that they survived without water for 8 days

        Hence the question - how long would the crew of the "Liberator" have lived in winter on Taimyr (without high fur boots, hats and sheepskin coats)
    2. Professor
      Professor 2 January 2014 11: 41
      0
      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      What do you think, having similar clothes and a flask of water, the crew of the "Liberator" would have gone a long way in a frost of minus 40 ... 50 degrees. FROM?

      Why are you sending naked all the time? Eskimo, in his igloo without heating and in primitive outfits, survives in any frost and throughout his life.

      At what temperature did the crew you mentioned move? Are you heartbreaking stories like at +30 people die in the desert for a couple of hours to bring or limited to documents?

      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      At T water 4,4 deg. C - time to loss of consciousness (death?) Is defined in 10 seconds.

      Where did you see this? Be careful !!! This is 10 minutes.

      And you answered the question:

      So I didn’t read the links and didn’t look through the documents. request
      And your question is not so serious. The naked man will last longer at +50. However, this does not justify your erroneous statement in the article - which is exactly what we are discussing and what I brought the documents to.

      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      Even from your tables (which I don’t really trust) it follows that clothing extends the time spent in water by only 25%.

      Heaping is also not capable of radically affecting anything.

      Nevertheless, people stayed in the water THREE DAY! 317 saved

      Everyone trusts, but he does not trust. laughing Look at the links and see how "clustering" prolongs life. 317 people at what temperature did they splash?
    3. Santa Fe
      2 January 2014 16: 16
      +1
      Quote: Professor
      Why are you sending naked all the time?

      This is the whole joke - to save yourself from the cold, you need a hell of a lot of warm clothes - hats, scarves, mittens, warm jackets ....

      Had the crew of that "Liberator" been on the Taimyr in winter, it would not have lasted even a few hours.
      Quote: Professor
      Eskimo in his igloo without heating

      The interior is usually covered with skins, sometimes the walls are covered with skins. For heating the home and its additional lighting, pans are used. As a result of heating, the inner surfaces of the walls melt, but the walls do not melt, since snow easily removes excess heat outside the hut. Therefore, in a hut, a temperature comfortable for human life can be maintained. In addition, the snow hut absorbs excess moisture from the inside, resulting in a fairly dry hut.
      Quote: Professor
      and in primitive outfit

      Prof, why you distort)) Primitive is a T-shirt with shorts. And the Eskimos walk wrapped in three layers of warm clothes, a funny fur hat and warm fur boots
      Quote: Professor
      At what temperature did the crew you mentioned move?

      In the Libyan Desert, hamsin blows in the spring - “50 days wind”, strong gusts of which occur about three times a month from March to early June. When the hamsin blows (two to three days without a break), the air temperature rises to 40 ° or more
      (B-24 crashed in April 1943)

      It’s not so much a joke in movement (it could have been at night), but in the fact that a group of eight people survived without water during 8 days in the middle of the Libyan desert
      Quote: Professor
      how with + 30 people die in the desert in a couple of hours

      1. Scorching sun
      2. Exhausting physical. load

      I'll tell you more, at -30 people in weak clothes without a hat and mittens die in a couple of tens of minutes - and no physical. loads and bunching cannot save. A complete set of warm clothes is needed - without this a quick and painful death.
      Quote: Professor
      Where did you see this? Be careful !!! This is 10 minutes.

      Oh sorry. I run to the store for points
      Quote: Professor
      The naked man will last longer at + 50.

      Not just longer. An order of magnitude longer.
      -50 (minutes).
      + 50 (day or more)
    4. Professor
      Professor 2 January 2014 16: 43
      0
      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      This is the whole joke - to save yourself from the cold, you need a hell of a lot of warm clothes - hats, scarves, mittens, warm jackets ....

      Let's go in the third round. And in + 50 and -50 without clothes and special equipment, a person is not a tenant.

      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      Prof, why you distort)) Primitive is a T-shirt with shorts. And the Eskimos walk wrapped in three layers of warm clothes, a funny fur hat and warm fur boots

      The igloo is not always heated. Sometimes there’s nothing to burn, but the Eskimos survive. Their outfit is primitive and has not changed from the primitive system. This is its primitiveness. They still hunted for a mammoth in this.

      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      Khamsin blows in the Libyan desert in spring - “50 days wind”

      Khamsin - in Arabic "50" blows only 5o days a year, not 50 days in a row. What was the temperature just then, in April 1943, do you know or not?

      Imagine, there the snow falls and it rains. wink



      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      It’s not so much a joke in movement (it could have been at night), but in the fact that a group of eight people without water survived for 8 days in the middle of the Libyan desert

      Cool tale. 8 days without water in the desert and even 160 km passed. I also had a similar incident while fishing ... good
      Here is what literature tells us about dehydration: A human body, on average per day in moderate climates, such as the United Kingdom, loses about 2,5 liters of water. As you know, our body consists of 75-80% of water. Loss of 25% of this water is fatal. Now tell us again how they are 8 days in the desert without water ...

      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      1. Scorching sun
      2. Exhausting physical. load

      What is the sun? We, under an awning and a T-shirt, slowly weave toward civilization.

      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      + 50 (day or more)

      Money for fish again? At +50 your person will not survive a day. Dying of heat stroke. Can I ask a personal question? Have you been to the desert yourself? What is your temperature record?
    5. Santa Fe
      3 January 2014 18: 37
      +1
      Quote: Professor
      Let's go in the third round. And in + 50 and -50 without clothes and special equipment, a person is not a tenant.

      - That is, without water, at a temperature of plus 50, you can live three to four hours if you move.
      Hegelsky:
      “Three to four hours.” Attention, in active mode. If you go, then in three to four hours - that's it. If, where you run out of the last drop of water, dig in the sand and try to do it right. Where there is vegetation or on the other side of the dune or dune, where the sun does not fallthen you, I apologize for the naturalistic, then you will die 36-40 hours. In 36-40 hours, anything can happen.

      http://vladimir.kp.ru/radio/stenography/74303/

      Now tell me how many minutes death will occur without clothes and special equipment at -50 temperature (it is allowed to run, pile up, dig in the snow, etc.)
      Quote: Professor
      Their equipment is primitive and has not changed since the primitive system.

      Why change there. Fur is the best heat insulator of all time. Includes warm shoes and mittens
      Quote: Professor
      What is the sun? We, under an awning and a T-shirt, slowly weave toward civilization.

      Then why "heartbreaking stories like at +30, people die in the desert in a couple of hours"

      These people died in the open sun, under serious physical. loads, had heart disease, etc. (or a selective combination of all of the above). In the usual case, having shade and water - plus 30 is not heat. It is a paradise.
      Quote: Professor
      With + 50, your person will not survive a day.

      Having a shadow and liters 5 of water?)))
      Quote: Professor
      Have you been to the desert yourself? What is your temperature record?

      I can walk from Arad to the Dead Sea, but a towel is needed there - otherwise the neck and shoulders will be burned (after all, under the sun)

      From Murmansk to Roslyakovo in winter in the same equipment I can not crying
    6. Professor
      Professor 3 January 2014 21: 43
      0
      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      Now tell me how many minutes death will occur without clothes and special equipment at -50 temperature (it is allowed to run, pile up, dig in the snow, etc.)

      What is not a healthy craving for nudists? wink For a naked person, -50 is more dangerous than +50. Now let's leave the nudist beach and turn to the indigenous people. At -50 live and breed, but at +50 no one lives. And so for thousands of years. request

      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      Quote: Professor
      With + 50, your person will not survive a day.
      Having a shadow and liters 5 of water?)))

      Having all the shadow of the universe and 5 liters is not a tenant. At plus 30 in the desert, a liter per hour is required. No amount of water is sufficient to ensure perspiration to "calmly transfer the temperature above + 50 ° C

      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      I can walk from Arad to the Dead Sea, but a towel is needed there - otherwise the neck and shoulders will be burned (after all, under the sun)

      From Murmansk to Roslyakovo in winter in the same equipment I can not

      Can you or did you go? My temperature record is +43, and yours?

      Dog-drawn Aborigines will overcome without problems, but at +50 who will pass the same distance? That's right, nobody. But it doesn’t matter, so we are only interested in naked ... wassat
    7. Beast
      Beast 3 January 2014 21: 58
      0
      Kids, take it easy. Survive both at room temperature. Neither -50 nor +50 can survive naked. And even dressed for the weather, but without the proper equipment. The only question is how long the agony will last.
  • Know-nothing
    Know-nothing 30 December 2013 22: 29
    +2
    By the way, there is a curious moment in Buchheim's "Boat" (along with the second one):
    - Probably, such things can only be done with children because they, as they call it, are not yet mature enough. They have no obligations to anyone. Of the serious troubles, almost always only officers come out alive. Who have wives and children! It's funny Once we picked sailors from a sunken destroyer - one of ours - dragged from the water. We arrived there two hours after he went to the bottom, which in such cases is considered very fast. It was summer, and the water was not very cold. But most young people dangled in their life jackets - already choked. They simply surrendered, hung their noses in the literal sense of the word, although the excitement at sea was only between medium and stormy. Only aged people fought. One of them - he was over forty, he was seriously injured - and he survived despite the fact that he had lost a lot of blood. But eighteen years old, without a single scratch - no.

    The old man is silent for a moment, obviously, looking for the right words to summarize what has been said. Then:

    - Seniors, as a rule, survive - children are likely to surrender.

    The chef who appeared gives me a bewildered look. The commander continues:

    - In fact, we must be able to manage a much smaller number of people. I often dream of a boat that would require a team of two or three people. Exactly like in an airplane. In fact, the main reason all these people gathered here on board the boat is because of the design flaws. Most team members perform purely mechanical functions. They are only links filling in the gaps left by designers in the chain of mechanisms. It can hardly be called fighters of people who open and close valves, or switch circuit breakers. I can’t listen to the commander of the submarine fleet trying to inspire everyone with the advertising slogan: “Attack! Win! Destroy! ”Complete nonsense. Who is attacking? Commander and no one else. Sailors do not even see the enemy.
  • pakfa-t-50
    pakfa-t-50 30 December 2013 10: 27
    +4
    our Arctic and no one else will be sick!
  • moremansf
    moremansf 30 December 2013 10: 47
    +3
    Five countries that are located on the ring of the Arctic Ocean, namely: USA, Canada, Denmark, Norway and Russia. The stakes are great:
    The Arctic Circle covers an area of ​​21 million square kilometers of land and 13 million square kilometers of mostly ice-covered sea surface. For comparison, the total land area of ​​India is 3,3 million square kilometers.
    According to estimates, the region may have more than 40% of modern global oil and gas reserves. There may also be significant reserves of coal, zinc and silver. Global warming leads to melting ice, and even if this process takes a limited period of time, commercial use of these resources becomes possible.

    Read more: http://www.inosmi.ru/world/20120206/184833929.html#ixzz2owEGKq40
    Follow us: @inosmi on Twitter | InoSMI on Facebook
    1. Professor
      Professor 30 December 2013 13: 30
      +1
      Quote: moremansf
      Five countries that are located on the ring of the Arctic Ocean, namely: USA, Canada, Denmark, Norway and Russia.

      You explain this to the Chinese. They also claim the Arctic.
      1. Firstvanguard
        Firstvanguard 2 January 2014 15: 45
        +1
        Prokhfesor, as always, in his role as a megatroll wassat
  • moremansf
    moremansf 30 December 2013 11: 01
    +1
    Russia has already applied to the UN to expand its economic zone, but was refused "due to insufficient evidence." Russia planted a flag on the bottom of the ocean at the North Pole In 2007, a Russian expedition led by Russia's most famous explorer, Artur Chilingarov, conducted research on the ocean floor near the North Pole and planted a Russian flag there.
    "The Arctic belongs to Russia," Chilingarov said earlier. "We must prove that the North Pole is an extension of the Russian coastal shelf." Russia claims that the seamount, known as the Lomonosov Ridge, is an extension of Russian territory, and in response to Chilingarov's expedition, Canada has doubled funding for cartographic research in the Arctic to $ 40 billion, according to Western media. In addition, Canada plans to open an Arctic military training center in Resolute Bay for low-temperature training, a deep-water port on Baffin Island, and build a fleet of patrol ships to guard northern waters.
    In the West, they fear that Russia seeks to expand its control over energy resources bypassing international agreements. In particular, the West is concerned about the presence of Russian atomic icebreakers in the Arctic, which outnumber British and American ships, which are not equipped with nuclear facilities, writes the Daily Telegraph.
  • moremansf
    moremansf 30 December 2013 11: 04
    +1
    Anatoly Tsyganok, head of the Russian Center for Military Forecasting and author of the article "Battle for the Arctic. An undeclared war for resources is already underway," does not exclude that the struggle for the Arctic shelf is fraught with serious conflicts. Melting snow can make navigation in the North easier and open up new transport routes.
    In turn, the main Arctic highway of Russia - the Northern Sea Route (historically the Northeast Passage), according to estimates by Harvard climatologist Robert Corell, by 2050 year, 100 may be opened instead of the current 20 days in a year.
    Now Canadians and Americans are arguing about who owns the Northwest Passage, because it can reduce travel time by 3-4 weeks. In 2007, the Northwest Passage off the coast of North America suddenly became navigable: an unprecedented melting of glaciers was observed in the region.
    The passage is considered the shortest sea route from Europe to Asia, and, at first glance, promises a huge reduction in transportation costs. Currently, five states with direct access to the Arctic Ocean are actively fighting for control of the Arctic - Russia, Canada, the USA, Norway and Denmark.
    In total, more than 20 states have declared their desire to conduct development of the Arctic shelf.
  • saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm 30 December 2013 11: 48
    +1
    Thank you very much for the article, I waited a long time for something like that.
    It seems that we are dealing with some unexplored cyclic process between the northern and southern hemisphere - it is possible that in a few decades the Arctic will begin to drag on with ice again. Sweet dreams of banana palms on Franz Josef Land and arguments in the form of oil reserves on the Arctic shelf (100% evidence that lush tropical forests grew millions of years ago) should not lead the average man astray. It was hundreds of millions of years ago. And it will not happen again very soon.
    That year the autumn weather
    It was a long time in the yard,
    Winters waited, nature waited.
    Snow fell only in January
    On the third night.
    A.S. Pushkin "Eugene Onegin" (circa 1823-1831)
    Special thanks for the photo selection, the worn out warships impress with their oppressive, icy longing.
  • sub307
    sub307 30 December 2013 12: 00
    +1
    Russia needs to establish itself in the Arctic!
    1. Lelek
      Lelek 30 December 2013 14: 14
      +3
      Already established. Visit the sites of Gremikha, Kitsa, Polar, Hot Creek ... you will see everything for yourself. crying
  • Tektor
    Tektor 30 December 2013 12: 28
    +4
    The remaining Sharks (Typhoons) should be preserved, modernized and armed ...
    1. rubin6286
      rubin6286 20 January 2014 19: 19
      0
      - Boatswain, something rocked us.
      -Starp received a radiogram. The wife with a hahal drove off to Naples.
      -So what?
      -Duc, there is none now, Naples.
  • Boris63
    Boris63 30 December 2013 16: 05
    +1
    Maybe we need to think about and build anti-submarine ships of the heavy icebreaker type with underwater launch of torpedoes, because not only our submarines get there. In addition, the "struggle" for the Arctic is not joking.
  • psyholirik
    psyholirik 30 December 2013 18: 15
    0
    The Arctic will be ours! And Canada ... figs to you wink
    1. stroporez
      stroporez 4 January 2014 12: 53
      0
      Quote: psyholirik
      Canada ... fig you
      ----- Strongly disagree ... Canada will be ours too .......
  • voliador
    voliador 30 December 2013 23: 25
    0
    And not only Canadians this figure under their nose!
  • coserg 2012
    coserg 2012 31 December 2013 14: 24
    +1
    Good article thanks.
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 1 January 2014 22: 03
    0
    The Arctic is my favorite childhood region. He has been to the Federation Council several times at work. The severe service there among the sailors in the Northern Fleet, unlike the almost resort conditions of the Black Sea Fleet. I appreciate these courageous people!
  • sergo1979
    sergo1979 2 January 2014 00: 25
    +1
    Here are the weirdoes tired of reading your dispute the temperature of a healthy person is 36.6 and now think which one is closer to it
  • blizart
    blizart 2 January 2014 06: 47
    +2
    This is how Russian sailors are gradating their fleets. KBF - Red Banner Baltic Fleet - Like a fleet.
    Black Sea Fleet Black Sea Fleet
    Pacific Fleet Pacific Fleet - The same fleet,
    And finally SF-Northern Fleet-The most fleet. Everything is clear, cool and very witty. And Saxons 1000 years warmed up at the Gulf Stream now give them the Arctic. Come and get it.
    1. coserg 2012
      coserg 2012 2 January 2014 18: 53
      +1
      Our person! hi