Military Review

Media: The only specimen of the secret 1.44 MiG conserved

235

The unique prototype of the fifth generation MiG 1.44 fighter has been sent for storage and has been mothballed in the hangar of the Gromov Flight Research Institute (LII), Izvestia writes on Thursday with reference to the message of the Russian MiG Aircraft Building Corporation.


The publication reminds that several months ago, with reference to satellite imagery data, the foreign media reported that the prototype of the fighter was stored on a “secret base” in the open air. The press service of the corporation "MiG" reported that the aircraft will not be disposed of.

“The plane, built in 1990-ies on the experimental program of the fifth generation, is in Zhukovsky. He does not fly, is in custody in the hangar, and no one is going to destroy it, ”said the press service.

Fifth generation fighters began to develop in the United States and the USSR in the 1970-e, specify "News". In the United States, the first aircraft were put into service in the 2001 year.

The project of the multifunctional fighter (MFI) was launched in 1980-ies, and by the 1999-mu a flight copy was received, which was called the MiG 1.44. The plane was supposed to confront the American F-22 Raptor. The Russian car flew twice in the 2000 year.

After that, the development was abandoned, and in 2002 the PAK FA project (a promising front-line airline complex) was announced aviation), which became the T-50. This is the development of the competitor of the MiG corporation - the Sukhoi company.

In the opinion of Colonel-General Anatoly Sitnova, the former chief of armament of the Armed Forces, the T-50 fighter that ousted Migov’s creation has no potential comparable to that of the 1.44 MiG.

On the eve of the commander-in-chief of the Russian Air Force, Lieutenant-General Viktor Bondarev announced that serial deliveries of the fifth-generation fighter T-50 to the Air Force will begin in the 2016 year.

Such machines can fly at supersonic speeds without the use of afterburner, have super-maneuverability, are hardly noticeable on radar, are equipped with control automation systems and can hit targets of different types with the same efficiency.
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235 comments
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  1. sergey72
    sergey72 27 December 2013 12: 05
    +33
    The fate of this last creation of the MiG is sad ...
    1. Guun
      Guun 27 December 2013 12: 07
      +15
      Why so? In China, he found a new life, and will soon be in service.
      1. Airman
        Airman 27 December 2013 12: 28
        +13
        Quote: Guun
        Why so? In China, he found a new life, and will soon be in service.


        It’s just that it’s bad that we’ll sift where we could strengthen our Air Force and make money. Poghosyanschina rules the ball.
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        4. sledgehammer102
          sledgehammer102 27 December 2013 16: 01
          +18
          Quote: Povshnik
          It’s just that it’s bad that we’ll sift where we could strengthen our Air Force and make money. Poghosyanschina rules the ball

          A very muddy story with Mig and the Chinese J-20 ...
          In many ways, it seems to me far-fetched, as it can be said with the same success that Lockheed Martin transferred f-35 technology to the Chinese, since it visually looks like J-31 .... Here are Ukrainians, yes, the whole they sold the prototype ...

          About Poghosyan, so generally a song, if he strangles Mig, then why do we have carrier-based aviation on the Kuz will be from Mig? Or will the short-haul be Yakovlev? And PAK YES will be Tupolevsky? And will the military transporter be Ilyushin? In my opinion, everything is fairly fair.

          Here by the way, a clear comparison of f35 and J-31
          1. Samminosh
            Samminosh 27 December 2013 17: 58
            -2
            The wing of a single aircraft carrier (initially training) in comparison with the number of Su-35s, the main fighter of the Russian Air Force, is not nearly close in scale.
            1. The comment was deleted.
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          2. Guun
            Guun 27 December 2013 18: 46
            +2
            Actually in the photo j-31, here it is - not j 20.
            1. bolonenkov
              bolonenkov 27 December 2013 19: 46
              +6
              Quote: Guun
              Actually in the photo j-31, here it is - not j 20.

              It says so.
          3. Guun
            Guun 27 December 2013 18: 46
            0
            Actually in the photo j-31, here it is - not j 20.
          4. cdrt
            cdrt 27 December 2013 21: 13
            +8
            Quote: sledgehammer102
            Quote: Povshnik
            It’s just that it’s bad that we’ll sift where we could strengthen our Air Force and make money. Poghosyanschina rules the ball

            A very muddy story with Mig and the Chinese J-20 ...
            In many ways, it seems to me far-fetched, as it can be said with the same success that Lockheed Martin transferred f-35 technology to the Chinese, since it visually looks like J-31 .... Here are Ukrainians, yes, the whole they sold the prototype ...

            About Poghosyan, so generally a song, if he strangles Mig, then why do we have carrier-based aviation on the Kuz will be from Mig? Or will the short-haul be Yakovlev? And PAK YES will be Tupolevsky? And will the military transporter be Ilyushin? In my opinion, everything is fairly fair.

            Here by the way, a clear comparison of f35 and J-31


            I totally agree.
            In fact, Poghosyan is the only one who was able not only to keep his company afloat in the 90s and 2000s, but also to achieve a decent financial condition, provided the development of new products.
            About his malice are yelling at losers working in other companies (KB first of all), having lost all their capital, having sold their achievements made with state money (this is about Yak), who have lived for 20 years with mantras and spells that stopped in the early 90s x projects.
            Well, they are echoed by those already alternatively gifted of all stripes - the position of prosralized polymers is shared a little more than half of people interested in aviation.
            And the facts:
            Yak - a new liner
            IL - revitalization of IL-76 and it seems like IL-112 will bring
            Mig - deck
            Tu - PAK DA
            nobody cares.
            The main thing to find the enemy, so the picture of the world is easier.
            And if the "enemy" is also successful, then this will only confirm the opinion of the paranoid that there is a conspiracy all around.
          5. Botanologist
            Botanologist 27 December 2013 22: 19
            -4
            Quote: sledgehammer102
            And PAK YES will be Tupolevsky?


            And how much will Tupolevsky be in PAK YES? Percent 15?
        5. asar
          asar 27 December 2013 16: 20
          -22%
          why "dry"? "Migi" are great planes! "pogosianism" - down with! HE IS NOT OUR PERSON !!! and who makes decisions in favor of "poggoss ..." are probably not our people either!
          1. lazy
            lazy 27 December 2013 16: 32
            +8
            because dry in fact is better
            1. Basileus
              Basileus 27 December 2013 18: 00
              -1
              So far I see only your unfounded statement and not a single fact.
              1. VAF
                VAF 27 December 2013 18: 20
                +8
                Quote: Basileus
                While i see


                Dear Radmir! drinks
                Not a lot off topic, but ... you can’t return to the PAK YES branch, so I’ll answer here.
                you expressed the opinion that China has its own development of a "promising bomber" based on the Tu-22M3 wink

                Here is a fresh Chinese photo ... it shows "freely" what it looks like .... the future "Chinese bomber" wink

                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. Basileus
                  Basileus 27 December 2013 19: 08
                  0
                  Yes, I threw a friend yesterday) I already managed to be surprised. It's a shame.
                3. 0255
                  0255 27 December 2013 21: 57
                  0
                  Here is a fresh Chinese photo ... it shows "freely" what it looks like .... the future "Chinese bomber jacket

                  Please discard the link to it. And this is not a photo-toad?
              2. cdrt
                cdrt 27 December 2013 21: 15
                0
                Quote: Basileus
                So far I see only your unfounded statement and not a single fact.


                The volume of sales on the world market Mig-29 in comparison with sales of the Su-27/30 speaks for itself.
                Despite the fact that the starting conditions in the early 90s were as if the same
                1. standby
                  standby 28 December 2013 02: 03
                  0
                  And each one occupied its own niche! smile
                2. Basileus
                  Basileus 28 December 2013 09: 52
                  +1
                  Sales of vases in Russia also far exceed the volumes of any other car. The sales volume of phones from one well-known brand with an apple, despite the triviality of these phones and the availability of better options on the market for less money, also exceeds all others. Will there be facts?
            2. typhoon7
              typhoon7 27 December 2013 18: 34
              0
              Which fact is better?
            3. Heccrbq.3
              Heccrbq.3 27 December 2013 19: 40
              +2
              This is a false statement, aircraft of different weight categories.
            4. APASUS
              APASUS 27 December 2013 19: 48
              +4
              Quote: lazy
              because dry in fact is better

              You can not compare these machines, they are of different classes, made for different purposes!
            5. kirieeleyson
              kirieeleyson 27 December 2013 23: 09
              +4
              Where did this nonsense come from, Su and MiGs were always different cars in the class. Heavy and front-line - Su, light and special - MiG. I’m sure Sergey will expand on in more detail. It’s time to even read and compare the parallax classes in both the USSR and the Russian Federation. Of course I’m not a flyer, but at least I understand it, this is the ABC. Comrades, excuse and correct in advance.
              1. clidon
                clidon 28 December 2013 08: 52
                +1
                Well, yes, the heavy Su-15, the light MiG-31. ) Yes, and Mig-1.44 to put it mildly not quite a light machine.
                1. kirieeleyson
                  kirieeleyson 28 December 2013 18: 17
                  0
                  MiG-31 high-altitude interceptor, no?
                  1. clidon
                    clidon 28 December 2013 21: 30
                    0
                    Yes, a heavy interceptor.
                    1. kirieeleyson
                      kirieeleyson 29 December 2013 01: 23
                      0
                      Well, I indicated above that this is a special-purpose vehicle. Still call a heavy MiG, which was mass-produced? We will not take 1.44 and 1.46, in fact, these are prototypes.
                      1. clidon
                        clidon 29 December 2013 09: 41
                        0
                        Well, you have a very strange understanding of the word "special". ) The MiG-31 is a fighter. And heavy. The "ancestor" of which was the MiG-25.
                        By the way, Su also had a lot of light "special" machines, Su-11, 15. Then the "special" Su-27, which was then transferred to the Air Force practically without any changes in design.
                        What I mean - there was no special division according to specialization classes between Su and Mig. There was only an undercover, full of intrigue, struggle for the "customer". Mig got more tasty orders - it got its name on the MiG-15 and therefore it took a long time for the Sukikhs to knock it out of the niche "frontline fighter".
                        Actually almost complete analogy of the helicopter Mi and Ka.
                      2. kirieeleyson
                        kirieeleyson 6 January 2014 19: 47
                        0
                        Special ones are classless, as the MiG 25 was originally created, and others in our time, such as AWACS, Atlant and others. The MiG 25 was created to counter all promising types of high-altitude US reconnaissance aircraft. Actually, that's why it should be difficult for him. The MiG 31 is undoubtedly multifunctional as an air defense element, an interceptor, a fighter, etc. It cannot be relegated to a separate class. For the rest, I agree that Sukhoi competently and consistently raised the line, while the MiG worked on government orders with thousands of machines 23,27,29 MiGs and somehow "did not reach the rest."
        6. sledgehammer102
          sledgehammer102 27 December 2013 16: 44
          +12
          Quote: asar
          why "dry"? "Migi" are great planes! "pogosianism" - down with! HE IS NOT OUR PERSON !!! and who makes decisions in favor of "poggoss ..." are probably not our people either!


          And where do you get all this from .....
          The industry is on the rise, and the MiGs are also giving chances, they have projects, no one is strangling them, and the Su-35 and Su-30 will certainly be better than any of the ready-to-go MiGs. Add to this the well-developed tenological chain of production of Su-30MKI, thanks to India, and for any Miga project everything will need to be redone. Accordingly, the choice is obvious. Better new Dryers in the line than Mig on paper
          1. ty60
            ty60 28 December 2013 01: 22
            -7
            Better Poghosyan in Armenia than in Russia.
        7. cdrt
          cdrt 27 December 2013 21: 14
          +3
          Quote: asar
          why "dry"? "Migi" are great planes! "pogosianism" - down with! HE IS NOT OUR PERSON !!! and who makes decisions in favor of "poggoss ..." are probably not our people either!


          Here I am above actually about such alternatively gifted ones and wrote laughing
        8. PKTRL
          PKTRL 27 December 2013 22: 29
          +1
          you are Homer (blind man) ... Poghosyan is not from the Komsomol worker, but from the designers. You’ll guess the rest ...
        9. PKTRL
          PKTRL 27 December 2013 22: 29
          0
          you are Homer (blind man) ... Poghosyan is not from the Komsomol worker, but from the designers. You’ll guess the rest ...
        10. standby
          standby 28 December 2013 02: 00
          0
          Could you explain who your people are ?! Well, so that there was someone to compare.
        11. dmitrich
          dmitrich 28 December 2013 04: 58
          0
          but there are ours, worse than ours.
        12. Atlas
          Atlas 28 December 2013 10: 16
          +1
          Why is this Poghosyan not our man?
      2. vladimirZ
        vladimirZ 27 December 2013 17: 46
        +4
        Poghossianism rules the ball.


        You are not mistaken. Rebellion rules the ball.
        He rules the ball in aviation, and throughout the entire Russian economy, EBNschina, in the person of Gaidar, Chubayshchina and Putinism.
        And despite certain progress recently in aviation, and judging by the unsatisfactory forecasts of economic development until 2030, she does not intend to give up.
        Draw conclusions yourself gentlemen, comrades. lol
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. PKTRL
        PKTRL 27 December 2013 22: 22
        0
        envy is a bad feeling. dry planes are bad ?! fool
      5. PKTRL
        PKTRL 27 December 2013 22: 22
        0
        envy is a bad feeling. dry planes are bad ?! fool
    2. clidon
      clidon 27 December 2013 15: 43
      0
      What was he embodied in, and even in China?
    3. standby
      standby 28 December 2013 01: 57
      0
      And who ever said that he found a new life in China! Our radio did not broadcast this!
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. klimpopov
    klimpopov 27 December 2013 12: 09
    +34
    Mdaa sorry of course. But Mig deliberately kill. And who is doing this very clearly.
    Interesting car in my opinion!
    I’ll add a couple of photos.



    1. Tersky
      Tersky 27 December 2013 12: 33
      +22
      Quote: klimpopov
      Interesting car in my opinion!

      Klim, hi! Even more interesting is its latest modification under the 1.46 font. This is a deep upgrade to 1.44, far superior to its performance characteristics. At the time the project was closed, preparations were underway for the construction of a prototype.
      Specifications:
      Crew: 1 people
      Length: 17,3 m
      Wingspan: 11,99 m
      Height: 4,73 m
      Weight:
      empty: 18000 kg
      maximum take-off weight: 23500 kg
      Engine:
      Engine type: turbojet dual circuit with afterburner and thrust vector control
      Model: "AL-41F"
      Link:
      afterburner: 2 × 18000 kg
      Maximum speed: up to 2400 km / h.
      Flight characteristics
      Top speed at height: 3185 km / h
      Maximum speed at the ground: 1500 km / h
      Practical range: 4000 km
      Service ceiling: 20000 m
      EPR: less than 0,3 m²
      weaponry
      Cannon: 30 Built mm gun GSH-30-1
      Combat load: up to 12000 kg
      for air combat, in the weapons bays: 12 × P-77 or P-73
      against ground targets, in weapons bays: 2 × X-55, X-61, X-41, or 8 × X-29, X-31, or 12 × CAB-500, ODAB-500
      Suspension points:
      Internal: 12
      External: 8
      1. Tersky
        Tersky 27 December 2013 12: 40
        +18
        Well, in continuation of the topic:
        1. mirag2
          mirag2 27 December 2013 13: 53
          +7
          Bitter, insulting to tears ...
        2. edge
          edge 27 December 2013 18: 08
          0
          what a bewitching charm.
        3. Patriot.ru.
          Patriot.ru. 27 December 2013 22: 03
          0
          MIG-31 is the best in the WORLD and not surpassed.
      2. makarov
        makarov 27 December 2013 13: 26
        +6
        So maybe SKIN ???
        1. edge
          edge 27 December 2013 18: 12
          +2
          Quote: makarov
          So maybe SKIN ???

          because we are doing so ............... built squadrons on their labor
        2. edge
          edge 27 December 2013 18: 14
          +4
          Quote: makarov
          So maybe SKIN ???

          I remember in Soviet times there was a motto-donate to the Peace Fund, so that you do not have to donate to the Defense Fund .....
        3. ty60
          ty60 28 December 2013 01: 25
          0
          Going to the teeth? Yes easy.
      3. ATATA
        ATATA 27 December 2013 14: 40
        +13
        Quote: Tersky
        empty: 18000 kg
        maximum take-off weight: 23500 kg

        Quote: Tersky
        Combat load: up to 12000 kg

        Probably a typo somewhere?
        1. Tersky
          Tersky 27 December 2013 15: 09
          +6
          Quote: ATATA
          Probably a typo somewhere?

          Alex, hi ! Most likely, the data was taken from a trusted resource, but there is also a bungle for the old woman. yes !
      4. askort154
        askort154 27 December 2013 15: 23
        +4
        Tersky .... Combat load: up to 12000 kg.


        Obviously, one extra zero.
        1. Tersky
          Tersky 27 December 2013 15: 54
          +3
          Quote: askort154
          Obviously, one extra zero.

          Yes, I understand, understand ... yes . laughing ! (see my comment above)
      5. Pashhenko Nikolay
        Pashhenko Nikolay 27 December 2013 18: 03
        +3
        It results in a thrust-to-weight ratio of 1,5 at maximum take-off mass. That is, at maximum take-off mass, it also accelerates vertically upwards?
    2. cdrt
      cdrt 27 December 2013 21: 25
      +3
      But Mig deliberately kill

      How curious.
      In reality, they just need to be given freedom (as it was, for example, in the 90s) so that they themselves collapse.
      And in fact - the company has consistently lost all tenders since the beginning of the 90s in which it participated.
      It was she who could not provide a win ...

      But Sukhoi could (first Simonov, then the successor of his work Poghosyan).

      Despite the fact that Su - planes are clearly more expensive, i.e. in the markets of third world countries should have been sold no better than the Mig-29.

      But instead of thinking that everything is probably bad at Mig, and since the 90s, it’s easier to find the enemy in the face of a successful competitor.

      Well, because Naturally, the head of the KLA was not appointed by immigrants from the KB-losers, but by the head of the most successful company in our aviation industry — explanations ceased even to be required.
      Everything is clear - there are enemies all around.

      But in fact - it is self-defense of the psyche of collectives-losers.
      A person, especially after the age of 50, is extremely rarely ready to admit that he himself is alternatively gifted, usually this is the evil world around.
    3. PKTRL
      PKTRL 27 December 2013 22: 54
      0
      But Mig deliberately kill. And who is doing this very clearly. Dont clear! Your fantasy is sick. The aerodynamics of the MiG are sluggish, even when compared with the SU-27 of the 80s (seen with the naked eye). In order for such a crocodile (yes, ugly, he is) to "dashingly" maneuver, very complex automation is needed, and in the 80s there were no powerful processors. I respect the designers of the MiG, and looking at the plane, as if 1.44 is just a study for LOI. Journalists wrote him down as a legend. Poghosyan is in vain all Hayat. Their model for LOI SU-47 (by the way, made mainly at the expense of its own profits) has gone far from many modern aircraft. The bourgeoisie (with a reverse sweep ..) dumped. Compare 1.44 with the T-50, like the plane of the Wright brothers and An-2 (it seems, but only an idea).
    4. PKTRL
      PKTRL 27 December 2013 22: 54
      +1
      But Mig deliberately kill. And who is doing this very clearly. Dont clear! Your fantasy is sick. The aerodynamics of the MiG are sluggish, even when compared with the SU-27 of the 80s (seen with the naked eye). In order for such a crocodile (yes, ugly, he is) to "dashingly" maneuver, very complex automation is needed, and in the 80s there were no powerful processors. I respect the designers of the MiG, and looking at the plane, as if 1.44 is just a study for LOI. Journalists wrote him down as a legend. Poghosyan is in vain all Hayat. Their model for LOI SU-47 (by the way, made mainly at the expense of its own profits) has gone far from many modern aircraft. The bourgeoisie (with a reverse sweep ..) dumped. Compare 1.44 with the T-50, like the plane of the Wright brothers and An-2 (it seems, but only an idea).
    5. standby
      standby 28 December 2013 02: 11
      +1
      It was! ... Among the defining characteristics of the 5th generation is low radar signature! This plane will not be low. Yes, and the internal compartments for the placement of weapons, in order to increase the reflectivity here was not thought. In general, it seems to me that it is not entirely correct to compare this device with the T-50, they are different, the difference in the creation time here is determining, perhaps!
      1. Atlas
        Atlas 28 December 2013 10: 26
        0
        Yes, and the T-50 is much more beautiful ... Personally, my opinion ..
        Mig is more like an eurofighter, but in order to stay in the air you need constant monitoring of complex electronics as far as I know.
      2. Basileus
        Basileus 29 December 2013 20: 29
        0
        Determining characteristics on whose version? The USSR Air Force, apparently, low radar visibility was not very needed, since 1.44 turned out like this.
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. Ihrek
    Ihrek 27 December 2013 12: 10
    +2
    The main idea was not abandoned, but developed in the T-50.
  6. svp67
    svp67 27 December 2013 12: 12
    +5
    Quote: sergey72
    The fate of this last creation of the MiG is sad ...

    His children are still flying, although the children are Chinese, but this does not stop them from being "direct heirs"
  7. Civil
    Civil 27 December 2013 12: 46
    +15
    Time will put everything in its place, but the MiG cannot be lost.
    1. Siberian German
      Siberian German 27 December 2013 14: 02
      +6
      tell about it
    2. Vasek
      Vasek 27 December 2013 23: 14
      +2
      Quote: Civil
      Time will put everything in its place, but the MiG cannot be lost.

      The wisest answer!
      I do not understand only: what is the argument about?
      Are all those who developed, built, tested, serviced and flew on "flashes" (as well as on "dryers") - not patriots? or not ours?
      The management leaned in favor of the PAK 50 for practical reasons: apparently, we cannot currently afford to develop both projects.
      Although, the insult of the migrants who have invested such a large piece of their life in this beautiful bird is understandable ...
      On the other hand, you don’t need to be an aviator to understand that a smaller and lighter aircraft (than the PAK 50, also of incredible beauty) is more suitable for carrier-based aviation.
      Maybe here is waiting for MIG rebirth?
      Wait and see...
      1. ty60
        ty60 28 December 2013 01: 33
        +1
        Ponte Olympiad, Gas flows, migrant workers from Transcarpathia at the Gazprom construction sites, we have enough of our hard workers !!! Why not chop off their wages with cheap crests!
  8. URAL72
    URAL72 27 December 2013 13: 21
    +14
    "The fate of this last MiG brainchild is sad ..."

    Bite off your tongue! In aviation they say "extreme", although there are newer developments. I'm sure the MiG will still have new and unique machines!
    1. PKTRL
      PKTRL 27 December 2013 22: 57
      +1
      Let it be said in aviation, but we are on a military review forum ..
    2. PKTRL
      PKTRL 27 December 2013 22: 57
      0
      Let it be said in aviation, but we are on a military review forum ..
  9. Migari
    Migari 27 December 2013 13: 24
    +6
    In the late 1990s, Mikoyan Design Bureau showed the first Russian fifth-generation aircraft MiG 1.44 MFI (Multifunction Front-line Fighter).
    The fighter began to be developed as far back as 1983, in 1991 an outline design of the IFI was created with an indication of the planned performance characteristics.
    1. Cherdak
      Cherdak 27 December 2013 14: 47
      +9
      Quote: Migari
      Mikoyan Design Bureau showed the first Russian fifth-generation aircraft MiG 1.44 MFI



      The Russian MiG 1.44 fighter began to be created back in 1979, as opposed to the American F-22 fighter, and surpassed its American rival in a number of characteristics. Requirements of supersonic cruising speed, super-maneuverability and stealth were made to the aircraft.

      To implement these requirements, a number of industry research institutes conducted a large amount of research. The first working drawings were released in the 1986 year. However, in 1992, the funding for the program was sharply reduced, and the work was frozen until 1998. An experienced 1.44 fighter was first shown to 12 on January 1999 at the airfield in Zhukovsky, and on February 20, the fighter took to the air for the first time.

      Serial production of the fighter was supposed to be at the Nizhny Novgorod Sokol aircraft plant. However, it was never started. Due to insufficient funding in the 90s Russian fighter technologies have become obsolete and increasingly inferior to American ones. As a result, the project was decided to close. MiG 1.44 remained the experimental Russian prototype of the fifth generation fighter.

      see http://topwar.ru/6435-svoe-berezhem-mig-otvetil-na-obvineniya-v-prodazhe-tehnolo
      giy-pyatogo-pokoleniya-kitayu.html

      This option is chewed again, which might have been good 30 years ago, but time goes on.
      1. Vasek
        Vasek 27 December 2013 23: 27
        +1
        Quote: Cherdak
        This option is chewed again, which might have been good 30 years ago, but time goes on.

        Experience remains experience, even if it is negative.
        And I’m sure that they will come in handy.
        Example: After the Tiger was approved, Porsche did not give up, but created on the basis of the "loser" Ferdinand - the best ACS of the Wehrmacht.
        (sorry for the example from the adversary laughing)
  10. A.YARY
    A.YARY 27 December 2013 13: 33
    +8
    Sergey Bodryzlov
    The fate of this last creation of the MiG is sad ..
    I completely agree! Like many of the greatest achievements of our military technology, space missile, scientific
    but research thought!

    We will spend a day and more than one just listing those masterpieces that were just "canned" and are now rotting in the open air!
    Or they "feed" our Chinese, SyShyShny "neighbors".
    Goodbye MiG 1.44! crying
    1. vell.65mail.ru
      vell.65mail.ru 27 December 2013 18: 26
      +1
      Why goodbye, let them now try to prove that the MiGs are the best in their class.
  11. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 27 December 2013 13: 40
    +8
    and handsome, whatever you say ... such a machine, by definition, should be good ...! whatever you say, but the Soviet school brought up cool designers! is the current contingent able to take this place ...
  12. Siberian German
    Siberian German 27 December 2013 13: 50
    +6
    It’s sad for one reason - the loot - and they were able to get to their distribution and all in the end we are about 10 years late - although in the early 2000s the twinks could already go to pieces and improve but not fate
    1. Cherdak
      Cherdak 27 December 2013 14: 32
      +5
      Quote: Siberian German
      prayed and


      Today, on December 27, in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, the next Sukhoi Superjet 100 aircraft made its first flight, having registration number 97011 (serial number 95046) - the 40th production aircraft and the 10th under the contract for Interjet Airlines

      By the way, I had to .. smile
      1. Lyapis
        Lyapis 27 December 2013 15: 39
        +7
        Why are you really with your 40-th Superjet, who cares ...
        Another thing is to groan in the spirit of "pogosyans-fucked-up-polymers-ruined-wunderwaffe" This is relevant, it is aptly useful, not like all sorts of PAK FA and Superjets. wassat
        1. sledgehammer102
          sledgehammer102 27 December 2013 17: 18
          +5
          Quote: Lyapis
          Why are you really with your 40-th Superjet, who cares ...

          All crawlers, sir!

          There are several such terms that describe such people "nihilism", "alarmism" and "pseudo-patriotism" .... People like bae want everything to be better and the country more beautiful, but at the same time they are ready to create any good event in the country ...

          The Universiade in Kazan is professional against students, although there were a lot of participants in the Olympic Games and the World Cup from other countries, and even if we take away all the medals of our Olympic athletes, including team types, we are still the first to give a damn.

          Winter Universiade - we won again, but for some reason these "patriots" are silent ...

          Superjet - drank dough, Poghosyan kills our aircraft industry. Although it was with him that now each design bureau has its own cool project.

          Ilyushin - Il-76MD-90А. It so happened that the technical equipment and all the documentation were abroad. It was possible to establish the production of a new aircraft under a well-known brand by the joint efforts of the Ilyushin Aviation Complex and the United Aircraft Corporation. The first tests Ulyanovsk IL-76 passed with flying colors.
          Tupolev - PAK DA and Tu-204
          Mig - drones and most likely Mig 35
          Even Ukrainian Antonov is going to Kazan

          Russia is the world leader in the space industry - aaa all missiles are falling

          The mace is the best ICBM in the world, during the test period it has better reliability indicators than all previous Soviet ICBMs, which fell significantly more during testing

          And so on on the list ...
          1. cdrt
            cdrt 27 December 2013 21: 36
            +4
            Quote: sledgehammer102
            Quote: Lyapis
            Why are you really with your 40-th Superjet, who cares ...

            All crawlers, sir!

            There are several such terms that describe such people "nihilism", "alarmism" and "pseudo-patriotism" .... People like bae want everything to be better and the country more beautiful, but at the same time they are ready to create any good event in the country ...

            The Universiade in Kazan is professional against students, although there were a lot of participants in the Olympic Games and the World Cup from other countries, and even if we take away all the medals of our Olympic athletes, including team types, we are still the first to give a damn.

            Winter Universiade - we won again, but for some reason these "patriots" are silent ...

            Superjet - drank dough, Poghosyan kills our aircraft industry. Although it was with him that now each design bureau has its own cool project.

            Ilyushin - Il-76MD-90А. It so happened that the technical equipment and all the documentation were abroad. It was possible to establish the production of a new aircraft under a well-known brand by the joint efforts of the Ilyushin Aviation Complex and the United Aircraft Corporation. The first tests Ulyanovsk IL-76 passed with flying colors.
            Tupolev - PAK DA and Tu-204
            Mig - drones and most likely Mig 35
            Even Ukrainian Antonov is going to Kazan

            Russia is the world leader in the space industry - aaa all missiles are falling

            The mace is the best ICBM in the world, during the test period it has better reliability indicators than all previous Soviet ICBMs, which fell significantly more during testing

            And so on on the list ...


            I think there are about three reasons for the presence of such people "through-polymers":

            1. for people from 50, it used to be really better: the pressure was normal, the girls were younger, and they refused less often, there were less sores.
            Ahead was the future.
            Now, it seems, and life is arranged, and ahead is not the future, but something else (as there Makarevich said in the film - "the future disappeared").
            It is clear that in such a situation, everything was better before ("in my childhood the trees were big and the snow was white")

            2. for people under 30, these are really just young people with a characteristic nihilism.
            Each of these people, of course, knows better than those who are already above him on the social ladder how everything should be arranged

            3. worst of all, from 30 to 50.
            It is apparently already clinical alternative gifted laughing because and nihilism by age should already have passed, and by age it is not supposed to be envious of the young.
        2. Siberian German
          Siberian German 1 January 2014 20: 13
          0
          Yes, horseradish with a child prodigy - but then explain to me about the carcasses of silt, ana - then they just have to be written off in the rubbish where the grandmas for their production, after all, everything is in the UAC - there is such a principle 20 percent of the products give 80 percent of the profit, so in this situation if the country needs super, we will give him 80 percent of the financing and the remaining 20 for other projects - but this does not happen
      2. Cherdak
        Cherdak 29 December 2013 00: 34
        +2
        It remains to add that this is already the 35th airliner that took to the skies this year in Russia:
        SSJ-100: 23
        En-148: 6
        En-140: 3
        Tu-214: 2
        IL-96-300: 1

        Production of airliners and military transport aircraft in Russia by years:
        2009: 12
        2010: 12
        2011: 19
        2012: 22
        2013: 35 * (until the end of the year another 3.5 days), growth compared to the previous year + 59%.
        2014: ~ 60 * (forecast - 42 superjets, 3 Il-76MD-90A, 2 Be-200, 6-8 An-148 and several more An-140, Tu-204/214, Il-96)
  13. Army1
    Army1 27 December 2013 15: 04
    +2
    It’s interesting to shoot our territory of the USA, otherwise they are painless
  14. edge
    edge 27 December 2013 18: 05
    +3
    wow, what a handsome .............
  15. PKTRL
    PKTRL 27 December 2013 18: 22
    +4
    I absolutely agree with you. And, I don’t understand why the author, once again, sucks 1.44 ..?! Mock ..?!
  16. PKTRL
    PKTRL 27 December 2013 18: 22
    0
    I absolutely agree with you. And, I don’t understand why the author, once again, sucks 1.44 ..?! Mock ..?!
  17. major071
    major071 27 December 2013 18: 43
    +4
    As this one is tired of nobody but money bags, an unnecessary struggle between the two great schools of aircraft construction. negative
    1. cdrt
      cdrt 27 December 2013 21: 38
      0
      Quote: major071
      As this one is tired of nobody but money bags, an unnecessary struggle between the two great schools of aircraft construction. negative


      Well, that means no one needs it.
      For many years, it was the presence of two schools that created competition, which gave the best ideas.
      Now it’s true, because aviation seems to be at a technological impasse, the cost of development has increased so much that it is too expensive to conduct alternative projects.
      Actually because in 1990-2000 around the world, a wave of mergers of aerospace companies swept.
  18. Sibiriya
    Sibiriya 27 December 2013 19: 47
    +3
    It’s sad because it doesn’t correspond to TK. 50 also flies on supersonic without afterburner, etc. etc. It’s a pity the work of people, but that’s why competition is to win the best. T-50 is better today and the work on it is not curtailed. Very inaccurate article.
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 27 December 2013 19: 49
      +2
      Do you have TK at MFIs?
      1. cdrt
        cdrt 27 December 2013 21: 39
        0
        Quote: Basileus
        Do you have TK at MFIs?


        And do you have?
        1. Basileus
          Basileus 28 December 2013 09: 56
          0
          Examples are given by one who proves. So let him lay out TK on IFIs to prove that 1.44 does not correspond to him.
  19. vell.65mail.ru
    vell.65mail.ru 27 December 2013 20: 23
    +2
    Drying has always been characterized as interceptors, MiGs are like fighters and they are lighter, which means the number of weapons can carry different things. So who is better in close combat, who is on distant approaches, is decided by professionals. We can only state the facts. hi
    1. cdrt
      cdrt 27 December 2013 21: 40
      +1
      Quote: vell.65mail.ru
      Drying has always been characterized as interceptors, MiGs are like fighters and they are lighter, which means the number of weapons can carry different things. So who is better in close combat, who is on distant approaches, is decided by professionals. We can only state the facts. hi


      Is the F-15 interceptor?
      Is the Su-27 interceptor?
      Aircraft weight and maneuverability are not necessarily correlated.
      It seems like the F-15 was much more maneuverable than lighter fighters. Similarly, I think the Su-27.
      1. Vasek
        Vasek 27 December 2013 23: 51
        0
        Quote: cdrt
        Aircraft weight and maneuverability are not necessarily correlated.


        But the cost of operation when performing secondary / unforeseen tasks is "necessarily correlated."
  20. Kolya
    Kolya 27 December 2013 21: 50
    +1
    how something new is brought so immediately to conservation. Units of equipment enter the army. Apparently they are more profitable to develop than to improve the country's defense.
    1. alone
      alone 27 December 2013 23: 38
      0
      While d..effective were looking for ways to cut and destroy everything, the Chinese were busy with business. Here and the result.
  21. valokordin
    valokordin 28 December 2013 00: 44
    0
    why sad, because Poghosyan paid for his order. Everyone knows how generous the Caucasian peoples are to them.
  • ReifA
    ReifA 27 December 2013 12: 08
    +9
    Sorry. Beautiful plane.
    1. Airman
      Airman 27 December 2013 12: 13
      +5
      Quote: ReifA
      Sorry. Beautiful plane.


      I generally like MIG cars, especially the MIG-21.
      1. vell.65mail.ru
        vell.65mail.ru 27 December 2013 20: 29
        +2
        I completely agree, but at that time 74, against our su-15s, looked like they were hitchy and too nimble, maybe our irons got boring?
  • svp67
    svp67 27 December 2013 12: 09
    +15
    It’s just a pity that the Chinese were previously given the opportunity to familiarize themselves with the materials on this machine, of course a thing of the past, but it was not worth it ...
  • Guun
    Guun 27 December 2013 12: 10
    +7
    There he is. The Chinese version is maximum similarity. But there are rumors that the valuable MiG employees went to China and work for the good of the PLA.
    1. A.YARY
      A.YARY 27 December 2013 14: 14
      +25
      that valuable MiG employees went to China and work for the good of the PLA.
      This is unpatriotic .... but let's think about it:
      SirDuke
      Mayors of cities (in placers)
      Senators (also not one)
      Chubais
      yes, etc.
      All those who steal our money and want to make money on us.
      And the workers watched this twenty-year show "Who is a sucker in life?", And decided to go where they are valued much higher at least in monetary terms!
      So that .... I do not judge them!
      Here, at our expense, "salaries" are going to the "deputies" of parasites and thieves to raise, but if they needed specialists, they would raise not a hundred tysh, but the workers would have at least ten fifteen tysh !!! !!!
      1. cdrt
        cdrt 27 December 2013 21: 42
        0
        Quote: A.YARY
        that valuable MiG employees went to China and work for the good of the PLA.
        This is unpatriotic .... but let's think about it:
        SirDuke
        Mayors of cities (in placers)
        Senators (also not one)
        Chubais
        yes, etc.
        All those who steal our money and want to make money on us.
        And the workers watched this twenty-year show "Who is a sucker in life?", And decided to go where they are valued much higher at least in monetary terms!
        So that .... I do not judge them!
        Here, at our expense, "salaries" are going to the "deputies" of parasites and thieves to raise, but if they needed specialists, they would raise not a hundred tysh, but the workers would have at least ten fifteen tysh !!! !!!


        Why unpatriotic?
        Homeland does not offer them a job.
        People find work not prohibited by the state (although they must have been checked).
        That’s nothing to do with patriotism (i.e., by definition, love for one’s homeland)
      2. valokordin
        valokordin 28 December 2013 00: 49
        0
        Quote: A.YARY
        So .... I do not judge them! Here they are going to raise the "deputies" of parasites and thieves at our "salary" account, but if they needed specialists, they would raise them not by hundreds of tysh, and the workers at least ten fifteen tysh !!!!!!

        Well, you and Yary, you should know that parent number 1 and parent number 2 care about us and you.
      3. ty60
        ty60 28 December 2013 01: 48
        0
        Wipers in Moscow don’t work for this money. Even Tajiks, sir
    2. PKTRL
      PKTRL 27 December 2013 18: 30
      +2
      maybe .. because not a single Chinese can copy a plane from photographs (at least they joke about it ..)
    3. PKTRL
      PKTRL 27 December 2013 18: 30
      0
      maybe .. because not a single Chinese can copy a plane from photographs (at least they joke about it ..)
  • Chicot 1
    Chicot 1 27 December 2013 12: 10
    +7
    Yes, what kind of "secret" he is, if everyone and everyone knows about him ...
    1. klimpopov
      klimpopov 27 December 2013 12: 12
      +2
      Yeah and pictures in bulk in the network)))
      1. 0255
        0255 27 December 2013 22: 18
        0
        Quote: klimpopov
        Yeah and pictures in bulk in the network)))

        and in all the photos he stands on the ground. And two videos - how it was rolled out of the hangar in 1999:

        and videos of disgusting quality about the first flight:

        and you can also find here and there a video about the second flight - for a whole few seconds. For example, in the film from "Wings of Russia" about the PAK FA.
        In general, why did his tests stop after 2 flights? What prevented him from flying further? After all, the Su-47 flew for test purposes, was demonstrated at MAKS:
  • itr
    itr 27 December 2013 12: 12
    +2
    very secret)))
  • V. Ushakov
    V. Ushakov 27 December 2013 12: 13
    +15
    The position of Pogosyanchikov - this MiG - will weaken ... Take away this family - the development of Russian aviation, military and civilian - the MiG will accelerate. Pogosyans are torn into handshake oligarchs, at the cost of Russian aviation ...
    1. Cherdak
      Cherdak 27 December 2013 14: 34
      +19
      Quote: V. Ushakov
      Pogosyans are torn into handshake oligarchs, at the cost of Russian aviation ...


      And this one did not please?
      1. vadson
        vadson 27 December 2013 22: 46
        +2
        Quote: Cherdak
        Quote: V. Ushakov
        Pogosyans are torn into handshake oligarchs, at the cost of Russian aviation ...


        And this one did not please?

        Remember how aviation projects developed in the USSR - it was a competition between your own design bureaus, so the best one was chosen, and he went into the series. Now there is no competition between Russia’s design bureaus, or rather it will always be, but lobbying and kicks of competitors will not lead to good. accordingly, now what we have will compete in the international market, and this leads to the fact that we will constantly only catch up with the West, which is bad. By the way, the amers now have our old scheme for the struggle for projects from the defense industry. remember f22, there were two projects, they chose a more adequate one.
        generally a monopoly in some industry is bad. another example is t 72 and t80. Tagil znobil tank building in Omsk, everywhere they push 72,90 and the old 80 in the military offer to remake into water carriers. it will take a thousand years and wither away without competition, look at modernization 72, the floor of the tower without dz. if ours will work with Ukraine, I think Kharkov citizens will throw firewood into the fire.
    2. cdrt
      cdrt 27 December 2013 21: 44
      +1
      Quote: V. Ushakov
      The position of Pogosyanchikov - this MiG - will weaken ... Take away this family - the development of Russian aviation, military and civilian - the MiG will accelerate. Pogosyans are torn into handshake oligarchs, at the cost of Russian aviation ...


      I agree.
      In the 90s, it was clearly evident that Simonov-Poghosyan was pests and losers, and Mig, Tu, Il - well done.
      And the results of the development of these firms clearly confirm your statement.
      1. ty60
        ty60 28 December 2013 01: 55
        +1
        Drive Pogosyan from the budget-steal in favor of relatives. Clan policy, not state
    3. ty60
      ty60 28 December 2013 01: 51
      0
      But how all the lumps loot rub!
      1. Atlas
        Atlas 28 December 2013 10: 32
        -1
        They are far from Russians, they don’t even dig ... already nowhere ..
  • Saburo
    Saburo 27 December 2013 12: 14
    +4
    Well, at least they don’t dispose of it, and that’s good.
    1. 0255
      0255 27 December 2013 22: 21
      0
      Quote: Saburo
      Well, at least they don’t dispose of it, and that’s good.

      someone wrote on the Paralay forum that the engines removed from the MiG 1.44 are launched once a year, in the hope that it will still fly
  • Andrey Peter
    Andrey Peter 27 December 2013 12: 31
    +13
    Quote: Jamal
    The main idea was not abandoned, but developed in the T-50.

    So the T-50 is a competitor to the MIG. And for the corporation * MIG * it is really insulting, of course it is clear that there is not enough money for all, but still .....
    1. Akim
      Akim 27 December 2013 12: 52
      +24
      Quote: Andrew Peter
      So the T-50 is a competitor to the MIG. And for the corporation * MIG * it is really insulting, of course it is clear that there is not enough money for all, but still.

      Russia needs, in addition to the heavy and light aircraft of the 5th generation.
      1. samoletil18
        samoletil18 27 December 2013 19: 10
        +7
        Quote: Akim

        Russia needs, in addition to the heavy and light aircraft of the 5th generation.

        Here it is, SERMUZHNAYA TRUTH! And to me, as a Russian. MiG MFI is needed together with PAK FA, and not a salary of 250t.r. at the mad printer, and not a limousine for bureaucrats, and not Ruble with residents worthy of a loop on his neck.
        1. cdrt
          cdrt 27 December 2013 21: 50
          0
          Quote: samoletil18
          Quote: Akim

          Russia needs, in addition to the heavy and light aircraft of the 5th generation.

          Here it is, SERMUZHNAYA TRUTH! And to me, as a Russian. MiG MFI is needed together with PAK FA, and not a salary of 250t.r. at the mad printer, and not a limousine for bureaucrats, and not Ruble with residents worthy of a loop on his neck.


          1. It is unclear why two planes of the same class are needed - in my opinion this is called squandering folk remedies.
          It is understandable, of course, if you are only in a "corporation" - i.e. either a military man, or working in a military-industrial complex, i.e. direct recipient of money). This is direct income for you.
          And to me, for example, as a good taxpayer, you need ONE type of heavy fighter (in principle, it doesn't matter which company Mig or Su).
          In my opinion, in the story of the T-64 / T-72 / T-80, only an alternatively gifted person can not learn lessons.
          2. I agree about the LFI, and it is needed from the point of view, because it is rather expensive to build the Air Force on heavy fighters alone. The question of course is whether KB Mig is able to give birth to anything at least now.
          1. samoletil18
            samoletil18 27 December 2013 22: 56
            +3

            1. It is unclear why two planes of the same class are needed - in my opinion this is called squandering folk remedies.

            One is heavy, the other is light. One is more for gaining superiority, an operational link, the other is a front-line soldier, tactics. The vastness of Russia is huge. What to do if they climb from different angles? With normal production and management of MiG, it is much cheaper than Su. And they should complement each other, and not replace.
            Yes, competition should be mandatory for Poghosyan.

        2. ty60
          ty60 28 December 2013 02: 06
          +1
          Respect to you! I absolutely agree
      2. ty60
        ty60 28 December 2013 02: 05
        +2
        And here the Poghosians want to speed up the Yak-130 Ukrainians by force of Ukrainians. And it seems that everything looks good for Russia and Ukraine in a share. It will be more sold ... Dumb managers who do not know how the whole system works are the main problem of Russia in all sectors . They are effective in the field of sales, and no more. God-godly, the pilot is exactly what HE will fly on. And not the financial projects of Pogosyanov.
        1. Akim
          Akim 28 December 2013 02: 49
          0
          Quote: ty60
          And here the Poghosians want to accelerate the draft by the forces of Ukrainians Yak-130

          Question. What does the Yak-130 have to do with the much needed 5th generation fighters?
    2. Cherdak
      Cherdak 27 December 2013 14: 37
      +7
      Quote: Andrew Peter
      And for the corporation * MIG * really insulting,



      ... in the next three years, the Air Force will receive 24 MiG-35 aircraft. And what offensive?
      1. typhoon7
        typhoon7 27 December 2013 15: 55
        +6
        Russia has a huge sky, these are not numbers. We need both MiGs and Dry and many, very many. The car park is very old.
      2. Wiruz
        Wiruz 27 December 2013 17: 31
        +3
        You do not confuse with the order for the MiG-29K? The decision to purchase the 35th seems to be postponed until 2016.
        1. Cherdak
          Cherdak 27 December 2013 20: 09
          +3
          The family includes:
          - ship fighters MiG-29K (single) and MiG-29KUB (double);
          - front-line MiG-29M fighters (single) and
          MiG-29M2 (double);
          - front-line fighter MiG-35 (single) and
          MiG-35D (double).
          All fighters of the family have a high degree of unification in design, powerplant, on-board systems, electronic equipment and weapons. A unified family of fighters will be produced and improved for a long time.
      3. 0255
        0255 27 December 2013 22: 23
        0
        ... in the next three years, the Air Force will receive 24 MiG-35 aircraft. And what offensive?

        and when will he enter the army? Its adoption is constantly delayed. request
        1. Cherdak
          Cherdak 27 December 2013 22: 43
          0
          Quote: 0255
          and when will he enter the army?


          The new MiG-35 and Su-35 fighters will begin to enter the Russian Air Force en masse in the next three years, there are problems with the completion of state tests of these models, Deputy Defense Minister of the Russian Federation Yuri Borisov told reporters on Wednesday.

          "I think that in the next three years they will already begin to enter the troops en masse," the deputy minister said, answering the question of when the Russian Air Force will be able to receive the new MiG-35 and Su-35 fighters.

          He recalled that the supply of Su-35 and MiG-35 is provided for by the state armament 2020 program.
          1. Cherdak
            Cherdak 27 December 2013 22: 51
            0
            The MiG-35 was created on the basis of the MiG-29 and looks almost the same from it. However, in terms of internal filling, it can be attributed to the fifth generation. The MiG-35 can carry promising Russian and foreign-made aircraft weapons. It has super-maneuverability due to powerful thrust vectoring engines. One of the main features is the presence of the Zhuk-A radar with an active phased antenna array. The radar makes it possible to operate in parallel in the "air-to-air" and "air-to-surface" modes, to recognize and classify group and single air objects at a distance of 150 km, and sea objects at a distance of 250 km.
  • bubla5
    bubla5 27 December 2013 12: 42
    +4
    In Russia, if they talk about the unification of all aircraft manufacturing companies, then this is equivalent to what they are reforming, and if they reform, then 100% means they are destroying
    1. Cherdak
      Cherdak 27 December 2013 15: 54
      +1
      Quote: bubla5
      if they reform, then 100% means they destroy
      fool

      look at the three largest aircraft manufacturers in Europe - the EADS concern, the French Dassault Aviation and the Italian Finmeccanica

      The European Aerospace and Defense Group (abbreviated as EADS - European Aeronautic Defense and Space Company) (Euronext: EAD) is the largest European aerospace industry corporation. On July 31, 2013, EADS announced the upcoming renaming of the Airbus group. The main shareholders of the company: the French government and the French concern Lagardere - 27,53% of the shares, the company Daimler AG - 22,52%, the Spanish state holding SEPI - 5,46%, Russian state Vnesheconombank - 5,02%, the remaining shares are distributed between management, investment funds and are traded on European exchanges.

      EADS is the world's second largest aerospace company (after the Boeing concern). EADS is also Europe’s second-largest arms and military equipment manufacturer (after BAE Systems.) The company designs, manufactures, and markets civilian and military aircraft, launch vehicles, and related systems.
      EADS is the sole shareholder (100%) of Airbus SAS, a company manufacturing passenger, freight and military transport aircraft. The concern also owns:
      100% Eurocopter (helicopters),
      100% EADS Astrium (satellites),
      50% ATR (turboprop aircraft),
      47% Dassault Aviation (fighters),
      40% MBDA (missiles).

      And did it fall apart?
    2. cdrt
      cdrt 27 December 2013 21: 51
      0
      Quote: bubla5
      In Russia, if they talk about the unification of all aircraft manufacturing companies, then this is equivalent to what they are reforming, and if they reform, then 100% means they are destroying


      Well, yes, the aircraft industry is clearly being destroyed.
      And production figures from year to year show death more clearly (sarcasm).
  • Mercenary
    Mercenary 27 December 2013 12: 44
    +8
    ugliness! perfection is born in competition. during the times of the Union in the military-industrial complex there was intense competition and the losers were not destroyed but made it possible to prove themselves ...
    1. Cherdak
      Cherdak 27 December 2013 16: 30
      +6
      Quote: Mercenary
      perfection is born in competition


      Competition competition is different. Most of all, lobbying now benefits from this. Forget about Stalin's times, although there, too, could not do without it.

      And Russia is simply not able to throw money away for 2-3 alternative projects. And the States no longer allow themselves, although they are sitting on a printing press ...
  • Basileus
    Basileus 27 December 2013 12: 47
    +6
    Recently, Rogozin said that a new light fighter is needed. Rogozin is still a balabol, but what the hell is not joking? Perhaps in the new LI, the Mikoyanites will revive the ideas embodied in the IFIs.
    1. Wiruz
      Wiruz 27 December 2013 17: 35
      +3
      By the way, yes! Moreover, in the 90s it was planned to develop MiG LFI based on the MiG MFI 1.44.
  • Unisonic
    Unisonic 27 December 2013 12: 53
    +9
    In general, on the one hand, the Sukhoi should be made by a T-50 heavy fighter, and LFI - RSK MiG, for the YAKi aircraft carriers, the attack aircraft should be given to Tupolevs. Ilyushin - transport aircraft.

    And we have a serious bias, Sukhoi is littered, and the MiG and the rest are idle idle. And the personnel are lost, for plants the lack of orders is a disaster. As a result, in 10 years there will be a monopolist who does not care about everything, there is no co-competition, therefore, why worry about the fate of the order, increase efficiency, reduce cost, the order is already in your pocket.
    1. alex-s
      alex-s 27 December 2013 13: 17
      +3
      Poghosyan just "rolls back" does not seem sour! That's all the orders he has. As well as everywhere in our country. sad
      1. cdrt
        cdrt 27 December 2013 21: 56
        -1
        Quote: alex-s
        Poghosyan just "rolls back" does not seem sour! That's all the orders he has. As well as everywhere in our country. sad


        Rollback is a general rule of work with the state. Moreover, both parties are interested in it: during a rollback it is not only officials who take it, a fair amount of funds usually "sticks" to the rollbacker's hands.

        And since roll away everything, then the question is really who, what can.

        If a company cannot give birth to anything, then, in spite of its rollbacks to the PAK FA program, for example, they will not choose.
    2. Basileus
      Basileus 27 December 2013 13: 27
      +5
      Tupolem rather strategists, attack aircraft - this is part of Sukhoi and Ilyushin.
    3. typhoon7
      typhoon7 27 December 2013 17: 03
      0
      Our Lobby has monstrous power and Rogozin acknowledged this in his interview. Even if light (medium) cars have a number of advantages over heavy ones, but with heavy ones everything is grasped. And he is powerless, and this at a time when the government is constantly whining about the lack of money, where is the logic? Both cars are beautiful, but at least they should be released equally. At least let them look at it purely from a financial point of view. Money and power should not cloud the mind. the country's leadership should have people on the team who speak the truth, and not what you want to hear. Imagine, they changed the leadership of the UAC and someone begins to spread rot on Sukhoi. It is unacceptable. The current system in the KLA is vicious, it seems that not only in the KLA. On account of the MiG-1.44. The opinion of the amateur, why not make a 31st replacement on its basis. No need to invent from scratch, the savings are big and it is already now, and not in 15-20 years.
      1. cdrt
        cdrt 27 December 2013 21: 59
        0
        Quote: typhoon7
        Our Lobby has monstrous power and Rogozin acknowledged this in his interview. Even if light (medium) cars have a number of advantages over heavy ones, but with heavy ones everything is grasped. And he is powerless, and this at a time when the government is constantly whining about the lack of money, where is the logic? Both cars are beautiful, but at least they should be released equally. At least let them look at it purely from a financial point of view. Money and power should not cloud the mind. the country's leadership should have people on the team who speak the truth, and not what you want to hear. Imagine, they changed the leadership of the UAC and someone begins to spread rot on Sukhoi. It is unacceptable. The current system in the KLA is vicious, it seems that not only in the KLA. On account of the MiG-1.44. The opinion of the amateur, why not make a 31st replacement on its basis. No need to invent from scratch, the savings are big and it is already now, and not in 15-20 years.


        Well, with that, whether you only need heavy or heavy / medium mix (well, not light MiG-29 with its weight then - average) there are many questions. I remember when defining future projects in the 70s there was a very serious discussion in the specialized institutes of the Air Force.
        And it seems that the victory of the heavy / medium concept was won, as it were, far from just because of military expediency.

        For example, the heavy / light mix does not raise questions for me.
        But the heavy / medium ones already have questions - why then heavy, if the medium can be brought (F-18 as an example)
        1. typhoon7
          typhoon7 27 December 2013 23: 21
          +2
          Mig-29 medium is yes, like Rafa and Typhoon, but this is not a disadvantage, but an advantage. The price advantage of the Mig-35 is 45-50 million (Su-35 70-100), economy, the MiG’s flight hour is cheaper, new economical engines with good traction. Avionics and new weapons on the Mig appeared earlier than on Sukhoi (AFAR Zhuk-AE, anti-ship and anti-radar missiles, etc.). An oxygen-producing station, refueling in the air, is cheaper and easier to operate, with ten tons easier. Europeans know how to count money, that's why they created medium-sized cars with a large missile and bomb load not inferior to heavy machines, with a long flight range and 10-12 tons lighter. Mig-35 also has all this. The average car is an ideal option, devoid of the disadvantages of both light and heavy machines. And if all of the above, we do not take into account when taking machines into service, then the search for logic there is useless. So you minded in vain, I brought my arguments and they were not collected from scratch. You know, because of all these stories, I decided to thoroughly study the MiG-35, its creation, characteristics, and you know I used to think that the MiG-35 is a good car, now I think it's a great car. He still has an option, a controlled thrust vector, turn it on and he will not be equal in the sky. This is the best fighter, and Rogozin has such a position to promote the good that he wants to strangle this or that lobby. Good luck.
          1. clidon
            clidon 27 December 2013 23: 49
            0
            There are still no Zhuk-AE on Mig ....
      2. ty60
        ty60 28 December 2013 02: 12
        0
        Absolutely right decision !!!
    4. Wiruz
      Wiruz 27 December 2013 17: 36
      +5
      In general, on the one hand, the Sukhoi should be made by a T-50 heavy fighter, and LFI - RSK MiG, for the YAKi aircraft carriers, the attack aircraft should be given to Tupolevs. Ilyushin - transport aircraft.

      Well, yes, and then more land - to the peasants, factories - to the workers laughing laughing laughing
      1. 11111mail.ru
        11111mail.ru 27 December 2013 17: 50
        +1
        Quote: Wiruz
        and then more land - to the peasants, factories - to the workers

        .... water-sailors, and stupid prompts-ch "en on the cheek!
        1. Wiruz
          Wiruz 27 December 2013 21: 31
          +2
          water-sailors

          I had about the peasants in the subject, you have about the member and the water is not very No.
        2. cdrt
          cdrt 27 December 2013 22: 00
          +1
          Quote: 11111mail.ru
          Quote: Wiruz
          and then more land - to the peasants, factories - to the workers

          .... water to the sailors, and stupid prompts-ch "en on the cheek!


          With such fantasies, you probably need not go to "Military Review" laughing
    5. cdrt
      cdrt 27 December 2013 21: 54
      0
      Quote: Unisonic
      In general, on the one hand, the Sukhoi should be made by a T-50 heavy fighter, and LFI - MiG RSK, for Yaki aircraft carriers, give attack aircraft to Tupolevites. Ilyushin - transport aircraft.

      And we have a serious bias, Sukhoi is littered, and the MiG and the rest are idle idle. And the personnel are lost, for plants the lack of orders is a disaster. As a result, in 10 years there will be a monopolist who does not care about everything, there is no co-competition, therefore, why worry about the fate of the order, increase efficiency, reduce cost, the order is already in your pocket.


      And what interesting is it that the stormtroopers are famous for actually peacefully reposed today
      Design Bureau Tupolev.
      Rook sort of like a Su-25 ...
  • Bashkaus
    Bashkaus 27 December 2013 12: 54
    +2
    Of course, the employees are upset that the 5th generation MiG has no place in the RF Air Force yet, they are probably even offended, but the phrases "... Yes, they went to the abscissa OX, OU and one more 4th dimension, they do not allow building a 5th generation aircraft, we will build the 6th ... "evoke optimism at heart;)
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 27 December 2013 13: 27
      +4
      Who said that the MiG 5G has no place in the Air Force? Light fighter should be their basis.
      1. Wiruz
        Wiruz 27 December 2013 17: 39
        +1
        Someone from the upper ranks recently said that Russia’s second 5G will not be developed - we’ll go straight to 6G.
        1. 11111mail.ru
          11111mail.ru 27 December 2013 17: 52
          -2
          Quote: Wiruz
          Someone from the top recently said that they say

          Someone, something, somewhere, somehow ... And specifically? Link!
          1. Wiruz
            Wiruz 27 December 2013 21: 35
            0
            Alas, now Google on such requests only gives Rogozin's promises. Although about half a year ago who (and even Rogozin himself) had an article on mail.ru, they say that the second fighter of the fifth generation of Russia is not needed, we will immediately work on the sixth.
            1. ty60
              ty60 28 December 2013 02: 20
              0
              and did Rogozin fly anything? Except in a dream?
        2. Basileus
          Basileus 27 December 2013 17: 56
          0
          Rogozin said that LI 5G will be developed, because LI sells better.

          And I also heard about "6G right away", but nothing prevents me from doing it in parallel, especially since the Americans are already doing this.
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 27 December 2013 13: 17
    -4
    To the museum and all that is there to argue.
  • shinobi
    shinobi 27 December 2013 13: 28
    +7
    Dry, it’s the weight of air combat. Conquering air supremacy. Mid-air migrations. Front-line aviation and target interceptors. They have different niches. Both firms will exist. And we have a lot of fun that the West only dreams of in sweet dreams. a product, even if very promising, is one thing. And to establish a series is completely different.
    1. URAL72
      URAL72 27 December 2013 13: 50
      +1
      Dry, this is a battle of air combat. The conquest of dominance in the air. Migi middle weight.

      Well, yes, the MiG-31 is not at all heavy ....
      1. iSpoiler
        iSpoiler 27 December 2013 14: 47
        +23
        Mig31 is an interceptor, and was created for other purposes, its task is to intercept ANY aircraft at ANY altitude, whether it be a fighter, a bomber, a high-altitude reconnaissance or a cruise missile. He must not gain superiority in the air, he must not launch missile-bomb strikes, his task is to see catch up and destroy. In combination - my favorite plane)) Simplicity and power in one bottle))
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 27 December 2013 13: 42
    +7
    Apparently, the time is passing when the country could launch fighter planes of two design bureaus at once - Sukhoi and Mikoyan. And yet Mig will still say his word. After all, Russia will always need a light fighter. On this optimistic note, we will celebrate the New Year!
    1. cdrt
      cdrt 27 December 2013 22: 05
      0
      Quote: Ivanovich47
      Apparently, the time is passing when the country could launch fighter planes of two design bureaus at once - Sukhoi and Mikoyan. And yet Mig will still say his word. After all, Russia will always need a light fighter. On this optimistic note, we will celebrate the New Year!


      The Mig-sheep did something ideologically like Gripen, only of the 5th generation - this would be a worthy continuation of the Mig-21 business
  • Sharingan
    Sharingan 27 December 2013 13: 49
    +4
    With such an air intake, you can forget about the low ERP, and this is one of the main characteristics of the 5th generation.
    1. typhoon7
      typhoon7 27 December 2013 17: 25
      +3
      It’s true, but Eurofighter with its air intake and Rafal say that beautiful cars, both in terms of weight and combat, and buyers of these cars do not make a panacea from EPR.
      1. cdrt
        cdrt 27 December 2013 22: 06
        0
        Quote: typhoon7
        It’s true, but Eurofighter with its air intake and Rafal say that beautiful cars, both in terms of weight and combat, and buyers of these cars do not make a panacea from EPR.


        Only these machines belong to generation 4 (with all sorts of marketing signs winked ), and 1.44 seems to have been generation 5, where stealth is one of the generic traits
      2. 0255
        0255 27 December 2013 22: 33
        0
        Quote: typhoon7
        It’s true, but Eurofighter with its air intake and Rafal say that beautiful cars, both in terms of weight and combat, and buyers of these cars do not make a panacea from EPR.

        both Eurofighter and Rafal showed their superiority in close combat with the F-22 Raptor in training battles, although the F-22, according to the Pentagon, is not possible to shoot down wassat By the way, in the book "Modern Fighters" in 1994, "Rafale" and "Eurofighter" belonged to the 5th generation.
        Quote: Sharingan
        With such an air intake, you can forget about the low ERP, and this is one of the main characteristics of the 5th generation.

        And did anyone check MiG 1.44 for EPR? The maximum that you can work on it in 2 short flights is takeoff and landing.
  • mountain
    mountain 27 December 2013 14: 01
    +3
    We regret and regret, there are already dozens of this secret technique and only the lazy one does not know about it. Let the Chinese whales flanch, and we will fly on new, truly secret and modern ones. Beautiful infection, this prototype MIG 1.44. But everything that is not done is for the best.
  • polkownik1
    polkownik1 27 December 2013 14: 10
    +5
    The history of aviation knows a great many such cases. Remember at least the I-185, which promised to become the best fighter of the Second World War, but did not ... Today, reaching for the T-50 MiG is late, and it is not necessary. A new niche for a small single-engine fighter opens, in which the MiG could use its vast experience working with the MiG-21 and MiG-23. Given the requirements and prospects of today and tomorrow, of course.
    1. cdrt
      cdrt 27 December 2013 22: 09
      0
      Quote: polkownik1
      The history of aviation knows a great many such cases. Remember at least the I-185, which promised to become the best fighter of the Second World War, but did not ... Today, reaching for the T-50 MiG is late, and it is not necessary. A new niche for a small single-engine fighter opens, in which the MiG could use its vast experience working with the MiG-21 and MiG-23. Given the requirements and prospects of today and tomorrow, of course.


      The position "could have been the best ..." was always impressive.
      There is no need to answer.
      And after all, there will always be hundreds of reasons (enemies alone, as the reason for all the evils that are worth).
      And it is not necessary to answer for the fact that he became the second one.

      It's like every loser can say - "I could be the best hockey player in the country, but since they didn't buy me a club, I didn't." And most importantly, it doesn't matter after that that he's been an alcoholic since the age of 18 laughing
      Such a window to an alternative universe laughing
  • K-36
    K-36 27 December 2013 14: 14
    +14
    I read today on the blog Baranets V.N. Skopipastil ...

    The famous LII them. Gromova. Funeral preparations

    Thursday, December 26, 2013 13:51 p.m. + in quote book

    Once upon a time there was a famous LII named after Gromova. One of the best flight testing laboratories in Russia and the world.

    And then MAKS came to its territory. For the time of MAKS, LII rented the land to the triplers and received a lot of money for this. And then the trade and exhibition company "Russia" appeared, which first rented a land plot, and then completely got it into property. And now, TCE is planning to deploy a full-fledged triple-based airport there: civil aviation, cargo transportation and experimental military flights. How in this case LII Gromov will test the aircraft and where his shots will go - and the hell knows. The competition has already passed, it was won by a Lithuanian company. Airport construction unfolds. Residents of Zhukovsky, "tied" to the LII, began to ring the bells. They even raised their Public Chamber to its feet. We came there and wept together. Even the famous test pilot Hero of Russia Anatoly Kvochur was invited there. Kvochur also murmured: they say, even with us, test pilots, no one asked anything "... Well, what next? But nothing. There will be a large airport, but there will be no LII. The report is finished.
    1. lapo32
      lapo32 27 December 2013 17: 57
      +2
      Yes, Baranets is clearly not a stupid man.
    2. VAF
      VAF 27 December 2013 18: 44
      +5
      Quote: K-36
      And then MAX came to its territory.


      Write everything correctly, about the "situation", that's just MAX here .. absolutely nothing to do with it!
      And what does LOUKOSTER do.
      And LII .... will go to Novosibirsk, sailors to Dubna, there will remain TsAGI and some LIIiDB ... that’s such sadness.
      This "news" will be about half a year already, just now it has begun .. "active" movement crying
  • Santa Fe
    Santa Fe 27 December 2013 14: 21
    +6
    The only sample of the secret MiG 1.44 is preserved

    Is it so secret? Everyone who had the chance to stand next to 1.44 probably signed the third form of admission with a restriction on traveling abroad)))

    Chengdu J-20 - a promising fighter of the Chinese Air Force

    1. Cherdak
      Cherdak 27 December 2013 16: 33
      0
      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      Chengdu J-20 - a promising fighter of the Chinese Air Force


      Looks like the unfinished freak from "Transformers"
      1. Santa Fe
        Santa Fe 27 December 2013 17: 33
        0
        Quote: Cherdak
        Looks like the unfinished freak from "Transformers"

        He looks like a MiG 1.44

        another matter is how compatible stealth and aerodynamic "duck" design are
        1. Cherdak
          Cherdak 27 December 2013 20: 14
          0
          According to one version, the Chinese could copy the stealth technology when creating the J-20 from the American F-117 that crashed in 1999 in Serbia. They may have bought the wreckage from local farmers.

          The Chinese themselves categorically deny that they built their aircraft on the basis of other people's technologies, and assure that this is an exceptional merit of their own developers and engineers. This is confirmed by the Chinese test pilots: one of them said that some of the characteristics that the J-20 possesses are a real technological breakthrough in the country.

          However, according to Wired, while the J-20 are imported russian engines. So until the Chinese create their analogue, the latest fighters will not go into mass production.
          1. 0255
            0255 27 December 2013 22: 37
            0
            According to one of the versions, the Chinese could copy the stealth technology when creating the J-20 from the American F-117, which crashed in 1999 in Serbia.

            not crashed, but shot down from S-125
            The Chinese themselves categorically deny that they built their aircraft on the basis of other people's technologies, and assure that this is an exceptional merit of their own developers and engineers.

            so they and J-11 have their own development, purely by chance similar to the Su-27 laughing
            1. 0255
              0255 27 December 2013 22: 40
              0
              and their promising deck J-15 is also quite by chance similar to the Su-33 laughing
              1. 0255
                0255 27 December 2013 22: 42
                +1
                and so, perhaps, MFI-2003 should have looked, having lost the tender with PAK FA. J-20 also looks like it by pure chance fellow
      2. demel2
        demel2 27 December 2013 18: 04
        0
        It will probably also fly.
        1. Guun
          Guun 27 December 2013 19: 11
          0
          Quote: demel2
          It will probably also fly.

          The J-20 is a complete copy of the MiG 1.44. It will fly the same way - but everything rests on the engine for him.
          1. Cherdak
            Cherdak 27 December 2013 20: 16
            0
            Quote: Guun
            J-20 is a complete copy of the MiG 1.44


            Sure?
        2. The comment was deleted.
  • Slevinst
    Slevinst 27 December 2013 15: 08
    +2
    But I don’t understand why the 50 is worse than this instant? purely outwardly, it looks better all licked
    1. clidon
      clidon 27 December 2013 15: 46
      +3
      T-50 is better than this Miga. But this is Mig, and then the T-50. )
    2. Basileus
      Basileus 27 December 2013 18: 05
      +1
      PAK FA is better. But the MiG was designed according to Soviet requirements for the 5th generation in the absence of information about competitors, and when the PAK FA began to design, the Raptor went into series.
  • me
    me 27 December 2013 15: 09
    -1
    It’s right that they hid it, otherwise the Chinese would look at the satellite photos and make a copy.
    1. 0255
      0255 27 December 2013 22: 44
      0
      already copied, see comments above
  • vadutc
    vadutc 27 December 2013 15: 19
    0
    No panic. If, nevertheless, dear comrade Bogdan (the hero of Russia) says that the T-50 is a good car, then it is! I think if there was a turd, he would say no matter what threats.
  • rereture
    rereture 27 December 2013 15: 19
    0
    Don’t worry, you’ve mothballed it, and you can use it in other planes.
  • USNik
    USNik 27 December 2013 16: 10
    +2
    According to the former chief of armaments of the Armed Forces, Colonel General Anatoly Sitnov, who replaced the creation of Migov T-50 fighter does not have potential comparable to that laid down in MiG 1.44.
    Not, always amazed the ability of "former bosses" to make such unambiguous and far-reaching conclusions. Apparently Anatoly belongs to that small cohort of people who, in all seriousness, believe that the MiG-29 is better than the Su-27 and are endlessly arguing comparing the incomparable.
    EPR: less than 0,3 m²
    How was it measured? Using a ruler over a photo or irradiating a monitor with radar? The car could have turned out great without a dispute, but at that time it was "not to be fat, I would live" ...
    1. lazy
      lazy 27 December 2013 16: 42
      +1
      as for the mig-29 versus su-27, it would be nice to compare export contracts, nobody seemed to refuse to buy su-27, and clones were also riveted.
      1. typhoon7
        typhoon7 27 December 2013 17: 33
        +3
        YES, but the Sukhoi are lobbied by the leadership, put into service with the country, and the MiGs spread rot. Foreigners say so: "Why do you offer something that you do not put into service."
    2. polkownik1
      polkownik1 27 December 2013 16: 44
      +2
      Dear Comrade Sitnov, speaks of the potential inherent in the MiG. May be. But let's remember what the general director of MAPO im. Dementieva? And for the fact that when it was time to report on the funds spent on this MiG, he had to roll out a mock-up under the guise of a finished airplane to show the MO. If this is true (I can’t say that the information was not particularly disseminated), then the potential was only on paper. Alas...
  • Bugivugi
    Bugivugi 27 December 2013 16: 30
    +1
    somebody knows? how in this moment stealth is realized?
    1. user1212
      user1212 27 December 2013 16: 36
      0
      I thought about it. True PGO is not the best choice for an aircraft with low visibility. About the air intakes written above. So it is unlikely that this MIG would be the first Russian five
      1. Basileus
        Basileus 27 December 2013 18: 08
        0
        It seems to me that he would have become the first Russian five. And not like PAK FA - the Russian five in American tracing paper.
        1. user1212
          user1212 27 December 2013 18: 20
          0
          A duck plane? IMHO unlikely. Maximum 4 ++. The forward horizontal tail (clearly visible in all photos) increases the aircraft's radar signature. The air intakes appear to be simply straight, which does not contribute to the shielding of the turbine blades. Although the radar blockers can be tricky. HZ. So, you can most likely forget about low RCS, and this is one of the main requirements for fifth-generation aircraft.
          1. typhoon7
            typhoon7 27 December 2013 18: 52
            +2
            Su-35, Su-37 is the same 4 ++, but even on the discovery they say that Su-37 is better than F-22. The Americans are fixated on this, in Europe this is not a tragedy, and their cars are still cool.
            1. user1212
              user1212 27 December 2013 19: 15
              0
              So that's why they are developing PAK FA so that it is not 4 ++ but 5.
              1. Basileus
                Basileus 27 December 2013 19: 22
                0
                You are obsessed with modern 5G requirements. We have already said below that the IFI was implemented according to Soviet requirements for the 5th generation, and judging by the resulting aircraft, the bet was on versatility and super-maneuverability. Then, as they said below, our military wanted a Russian raptor - under the influence of the Poghosyan lobby, or they reached it, no matter - the main thing is that they received it, and the IFI program was closed. I think for their time, the requirements were conscious - nevertheless, the stealth at that time was an American chip, but ours decided to beat with their pluses.
          2. Basileus
            Basileus 27 December 2013 19: 10
            0
            What are the requirements? Dictated by the raptor? Or do you have a TTZ at the IFI?
            1. user1212
              user1212 27 December 2013 19: 20
              0
              Something I do not understand you. Do you consider low visibility unnecessary and oppose the development of new Russian fighters?
              1. Basileus
                Basileus 27 December 2013 19: 24
                0
                Above, I expressed my opinion. This is the fifth generation now - low visibility, and you proceed from this. When given the assignment for IFIs, the vision of a fifth-generation fighter in the Soviet Union was different.
                1. user1212
                  user1212 27 December 2013 19: 30
                  0
                  Did I say somewhere that 1.44 is bad? I said that it does not meet the MODERN requirements of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.
                  1. Basileus
                    Basileus 27 December 2013 19: 47
                    0
                    You said that "1.44 would hardly be the first Russian top five." You didn't say anything about modern or non-modern requirements. I believe that I would, and it would be Russian, according to domestic requirements, and not according to tracing paper from the West. But I already wrote this in the discussion.
                  2. user1212
                    user1212 27 December 2013 19: 59
                    0
                    The difference in the Soviet and Russian approaches to the fifth generation is, by and large, only in relation to low radar visibility. Do you find it unnecessary?
                    Mattresses out there consider over-maneuverability unnecessary. Well, yes, they are the judge smile
                    1. Basileus
                      Basileus 27 December 2013 20: 22
                      +1
                      I didn’t say anything like that. I just said that it is definitely impossible to call 1.44 the fourth or fifth generation - it all depends on the approach. In American, there is a lack of stealth, in Soviet, everything is fine. Your statements that he is definitely not 5 generations do not even imply a different opinion.
                      1. clidon
                        clidon 27 December 2013 20: 50
                        +1
                        5th generation is generally a concept more for the public than for military-technical documentation. The Swedes, (already a little sore, an example) considered their "Gripen" quite a fifth generation ...)
                        Therefore, in general, I personally agree with you - this was a domestic view of the fifth generation. But there was a "stealth revolution" and now, without stealth, the plane is not considered appropriate for the time.
                      2. 0255
                        0255 27 December 2013 22: 49
                        0
                        The Swedes, (already a little sore, an example) considered their "Gripen" quite a fifth generation ...)

                        Eurofighter and Rafal were also considered the fifth generation in the early 1990s. This is now the Americans say - like we are so cool, the first to come up with the 5th generation aircraft F-22 and YF-23, and stubbornly consider the T-50 generation 4 ++, an analogue of the F-15SE, and not the Raptor.
                      3. clidon
                        clidon 27 December 2013 23: 19
                        0
                        Yes, all in turn consider their new cars "five" because these statements do not carry anything special. The truth about the T-50 is, on the contrary, the Americans came across with the opinion that this is the third "five generation" in the world.
  • clidon
    clidon 27 December 2013 18: 22
    +5
    As the "migovtsy" wrote at one time - "In terms of TTZ, stealth was not the main task" and as it is noticeable, they were not particularly fond of it. Therefore, before us is the Soviet vision of the fifth generation - a heavy maneuverable "multifunctional" machine. Then our military wanted an analogue of the Raptor, and 1.44 started having problems, which, coinciding with the financial, political and other crises, led to the lack of demand for the car.
  • v53993
    v53993 27 December 2013 16: 54
    +2
    MIG was, is and will be. And then we will have the best fighters in the world.
  • user1212
    user1212 27 December 2013 17: 05
    +1
    The T-50 does not have a potential comparable to that in MiG 1.44.

    A man apparently fell from a Christmas tree and was hurt by his head. Or is it more likely that the journalism is writing a gag again
    1. ty60
      ty60 28 December 2013 02: 39
      0
      Yes, not in the subject simply ..
  • Jedi
    Jedi 27 December 2013 17: 28
    -2
    Quote: v53993
    MIG was, is and will be. And then we will have the best fighters in the world.

    as always, we continue to enjoy ourselves admiring ourselves in the mirror with an enduring thought about how great we are! it remains to ask the Chinese, Europeans and staff members that they would stop developing for 10-15 years and wait for us ... and then we will definitely catch up with them and overtake them ... Americans generally consider their rapper f-22 a dull junk. they have the x-37v landing on deck better than the pilot, and the x47v flies in near-earth orbit for half a year and we don’t even know what it is armed with. and let me ask you from what hangover did you think that our fighters WILL BE the best in the world? it once was ???
    1. Ihrek
      Ihrek 27 December 2013 17: 48
      +1
      Our military aircraft is at least one of the best in the world. Although I am more inclined that she is the best. And in order for it to remain so, painstaking daily work is needed. The USSR achieved this superiority not by admiring the mirror, but by really working. After the collapse of the USSR, there was a tendency to lag, but it is not critical, the main thing is to take urgent measures.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. user1212
      user1212 27 December 2013 17: 55
      +5
      Quote: Jedi
      f-22 consider dull junk

      Pruflink will or balabol?
      Quote: Jedi
      they have the x-37v sits on deck better than the pilot

      Cool for an unmanned orbital aircraft that is stuffed into orbit by a rocket and which is not intended to land on an aircraft carrier at all. He doesn't even fly. He controllably falls from orbit smile
      Quote: Jedi
      x47 in half a year in low Earth orbit flies and we don’t even know what it is armed with

      But this one got on an aircraft carrier. Once. The truth does not fly into space.
  • core
    core 27 December 2013 17: 37
    +1
    not beautiful cars do not fly, this is the law of aviation. and MIG 1.44 NOT A BEAUTIFUL PLANE.
    1. typhoon7
      typhoon7 27 December 2013 18: 30
      +4
      He is ugly for you. In our history, there are many beautiful beautiful cars that do not fly, and not only here. The car is beautiful. If you gravitate toward Sukhoi with your heart, this does not mean that everyone else has not come out face-to-face. With such considerations, we can generally be left without aviation.
    2. 0255
      0255 27 December 2013 22: 51
      +1
      Quote: core
      not beautiful cars do not fly, this is the law of aviation. and MIG 1.44 NOT A BEAUTIFUL PLANE.

      normal plane good
  • Just Vasilich
    Just Vasilich 27 December 2013 17: 52
    +2
    From the article: A unique prototype fifth-generation fighter MiG 1.44 sent to storage and preserved in the hangar ...

    Did you check the roof of the hangar?
    1. 0255
      0255 27 December 2013 22: 54
      +1
      Quote: Just Vasilich
      From the article: A unique prototype fifth-generation fighter MiG 1.44 sent to storage and preserved in the hangar ...

      Did you check the roof of the hangar?

      well, even sent to the hangar, and that’s good. And how long did he stand in the open air with a cabin wrapped in rags?
  • Sergey47
    Sergey47 27 December 2013 17: 58
    +6
    In comparison with the T-50, of course it is ugly. Let's hope that the MIGs will still surprise the world, as has happened more than once. Why is the Armenian Poghosyan so disliked by the Armenian Mikoyan?
    1. ty60
      ty60 28 December 2013 02: 44
      +1
      When did Mikoyan-Poghosyan sheep pass
  • Jedi
    Jedi 27 December 2013 18: 21
    0
    in the numbers of the names I could be wrong ... but who understood the topic ...
  • Jedi
    Jedi 27 December 2013 18: 23
    +1
    and f-22 no longer do. and f-35 they themselves say that the last of the manned
    1. user1212
      user1212 27 December 2013 19: 27
      +1
      Well, since you know what they say about the 35th, so maybe look what they say about the reasons for abandoning f22?
      1. Basileus
        Basileus 27 December 2013 19: 27
        +1
        "Too expensive"
        1. user1212
          user1212 27 December 2013 19: 44
          0
          "Too expensive" is putting it mildly. $ 400 million. That is, an aircraft weighing 19700 in terms of technical specifications costs as much as 10 tons of gold
  • PKTRL
    PKTRL 27 December 2013 18: 27
    0
    The article is very short, and nothing new. Most likely, she (the article) is like a bullet launched at night in a dense forest. Those. statistics collection ...
  • musya
    musya 27 December 2013 19: 02
    +1
    How much time, health, mind was spent on developing the MiG and all for nothing. Sold or given to China, friends. Forgot about about. Damansky.
  • vo.dum
    vo.dum 27 December 2013 19: 46
    0
    I just don’t have words from such stupidity ... How can MiG be pulled-one of the world leaders in the military aircraft industry ... and so on ... there will be no competition with the same dry loss in the general level of aircraft manufacturing ... I'm just in x ...... !!!!!
    1. Cherdak
      Cherdak 27 December 2013 20: 29
      0
      Quote: vo.dum
      I just have no words from such stupidity ...


      In vain lol

      By combining aviation enterprises, they create a powerful research and production complex that is easier to compete in on the global market than individual enterprises.
  • kelevra
    kelevra 27 December 2013 19: 58
    0
    It would be possible to try and bring to a prototype with subsequent serial production.
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 27 December 2013 20: 00
      0
      And in the video, in your opinion, what?
  • Jedi
    Jedi 27 December 2013 20: 15
    +1
    Quote: Basileus
    user1212 Today, 19:27 ↑ New
    Well, since you know what they say about the 35th, so maybe look what they say about the reasons for abandoning f22?

    yes in the know. they say that the plane is very expensive, and a worthy enemy in the sky is not expected in the next 15-20 years ... if you heard something else, share it. I will be grateful
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 27 December 2013 20: 23
      0
      This is not my quote)
    2. user1212
      user1212 27 December 2013 20: 28
      +1
      I do not understand. Then
      Quote: Jedi
      f-22 consider dull junk.
      that
      Quote: Jedi
      and a worthy adversary in the sky the next 15-20 years is not expected

      A fighter that has no opponents, by definition, cannot be a gloomy junk
  • Jedi
    Jedi 27 December 2013 20: 36
    +1
    very much even can. made it, a lot, a lot of money was invested in its development, but in fact it turned out that he had no one to fight ... and he was not the only one. Do you know the fate of the Comanche?
    1. user1212
      user1212 27 December 2013 20: 53
      +3
      Yeah. The Americans cried from resentment against the evil Russians (who did not create a worthy adversary) and blamed all the hell smile
    2. clidon
      clidon 27 December 2013 21: 06
      +3
      Comanche fell victim not only to a change in concept and financial problems, but also to technical miscalculations.
  • Jedi
    Jedi 27 December 2013 20: 48
    -1
    the American Minister of Defense's pockets in breeches are not bottomless like those of Serdyukov ... if he needs to, they will not only crawl into his pocket, but also into other parts of the body ... and the people of the United States can ask him at any time: why do we need f-22, f -35, "Glocks" or "Beretta" are the same ...
    1. user1212
      user1212 27 December 2013 20: 54
      0
      So why is junk?
  • individual
    individual 27 December 2013 21: 08
    0
    So what's the point of publishing a secret MiG 1.44.
    If you said "A", then it is desirable to hear "B"))))))
    1. Cherdak
      Cherdak 27 December 2013 21: 29
      0
      Quote: individ
      So what's the point


      ... so, lightly throw it on the fan.

      Relaxes before the holidays.
  • Kulneff2009
    Kulneff2009 27 December 2013 21: 19
    -1
    Instantly drunk prez sold to the mercury verticals! Then they did it themselves. Now they will do this Chinas. Everything is exactly. Wow, all over the hill! Class!
    1. Cherdak
      Cherdak 27 December 2013 21: 30
      +3
      Quote: Kulneff2009
      drunk prez


      so they judge him according to his deeds ...
  • Jedi
    Jedi 27 December 2013 22: 08
    0
    Quote: Cherdak

    user1212 Today, 20:54 ↑ New
    So why is junk?

    Duc because years take their toll, but what did you think
  • Jedi
    Jedi 27 December 2013 22: 10
    0
    because they like x-37 more than raptor or lightning-2
    1. user1212
      user1212 28 December 2013 05: 22
      0
      Again 25 ...
      X 37 is not a fighter. And NEVER will be a fighter (in the usual sense). He is not able to conduct an air battle. Do not compare warm to soft.
  • DPN
    DPN 27 December 2013 22: 24
    0
    Quote: sledgehammer102
    than Mig on paper


    The point is not in MIGA, but in the earth on which the MIGA plants are standing. An earthen in the capital cities is like a road, more expensive than the MIGA.
  • duchy
    duchy 27 December 2013 22: 24
    0
    To me, an ordinary resident of the country in which I live, honestly and frankly on the "drum", which aircraft will protect me, because the main thing is to save those. who is forging VICTORY in the rear, Aviation, with the transition to market economy, divided the sky between the design bureaus, "to whom soap, who was awed, who was chaff." God would grant that the most advanced developments of all design bureaus were used jointly (exchange of experience). And MIG 144 most likely did not live up to its time. Let's hope that the design bureau will create a more advanced aircraft that are being created now. FORWARD good drinks
  • studentmati
    studentmati 27 December 2013 22: 24
    +1
    Media: The only specimen of the secret 1.44 MiG conserved

    ... in the hope of better times !!! ...