Clash of the Titans. "Gerald Ford" against "Zamvolta"

108


As you know, being rich and healthy is better than being poor and sick. The existing order of things, in which the fleet of one state in quantity and quality is an order of magnitude ahead of the fleet of the other side, has generated a distorted understanding of the strength and weakness of the naval forces. It has become customary to admire the full power of the Sixth fleet and laugh at the lone SKR “Shrewd” with air defense systems of the 60s. No doubt, it’s easy and simple to think in terms of “battleship Yamato versus eight aircraft carriers of the 58th operational formation” - the outcome of the battle is obvious in advance, without any complicated calculations.

Over the past 100 years, the oceans have plied a lot of decent fleets - each with its own characteristics and combat techniques. It happened that they fought with each other - and then it was impossible to predict the outcome of the battle. At the moment, American sailors are not equal in strength to the enemy. But global hegemony is a temporary phenomenon. What will happen when the dashing Captains of heaven will run into the same crazy Saviors of galaxies?

What if we compare the power of two modern ships of different classes, if both rivals are “advanced” combat units, created on the same technological level, with the most modern means of detection and weapons? Will there be a situation that, despite the 8 -fold difference in size and cost, their combat value will be the same?

The purpose of this metaphysical comparison is to try to find the answer about the most effective and balanced image of the fleet. The fleet to be built by Russia in the near future (regardless of the author’s opinion, the surface component of the Russian Navy needs to be updated as soon as possible).

Unfortunately, the equipment needed for comparison so far is available only on one side of the ocean - the supercarrier USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN-78) and the stealth shock destroyer USS Zumwalt (DDG-1000). Launched in the fall of 2013, both ships represent the quintessence of the most advanced technologies in the field of shipbuilding, radio electronics, metallurgy, physics of composites and all related fields of science and technology

Storm Hammer

The largest and most expensive warship in stories of humanity. Its length is 337 meters. Total displacement 112 thousand tons. Crew 4660 man.



Ford opened a new era in the history of supercarriers - an optimized layout with three lifts and a reduced island superstructure. Electromagnetic catapults EMALS. Advanced Arresting Gear (AAG) landing system with "intelligent" aircraft energy absorption - which reduces the stress on the structure of carrier-based aircraft and allows you to safely land "Drones". Nuclear reactor A1B, not requiring recharging for 50 years. Dual band radar system DBR. The PAWDS plasma system for burning household waste is an important element for a ship with a crew of many thousands. Self-defense systems based on PU Mk.29 (ESSM), RIM-116 and automatic anti-aircraft guns "Phalanx". Finally, a powerful air wing - F-35B, F / A-18E / F multi-role fighters, specialized EA-18G electronic warfare aircraft, X-47B reconnaissance and strike UAVs, E-2D AWACS aircraft, a squadron of anti-submarine and search and rescue helicopters of the MH- family 60… Formidable power!

Issue price - 17,5 billion. Taking into account all the research and development, but excluding the cost of aircraft.

Dreadnought of the XXI century

An inimitable stealth destroyer, as if descended from the screens of science fiction films. The length of the “Zamvolta” reaches 183 meters, the total displacement - 14,5 thousand tons. Staff crew 142 sailor. Amazing external forms - curtain sides, nose-breakwater, lack of masts and chimneys, superstructure, resembling a truncated pyramid in shape - “Zamvolt” shouts to an unwitting observer: Pay attention to me! Of course, this is a joke - all other things being equal, the radar visibility of this ship should be several times lower than that of similar-sized cruisers and destroyers of other countries. Enemy radar will not be able to detect the presence of "Zamvolta" from a long distance. According to the Pentagon, its effective dispersion area corresponds to the EPR of a fishing boat.

Clash of the Titans. "Gerald Ford" against "Zamvolta"


Due to the specific hull lines, the Zamvolta will have a too dim and weakly expressed wake track. Foam breaker breaks immediately after the stern of the ship, which will make the Zamvolt almost indistinguishable from space orbits. And an effective system for supplying air to the lower part of the hull, together with streamlined contours and low-noise mechanisms, will make the Zamvolt difficult to detect for the submarine's direction finders. Stealth destroyer completely dissolve against the backdrop of the ocean.

The secrets of the “Silver Bullet of the Pentagon” are not limited to stealth - the Yankees have made great strides in creating detection tools. One of the main know-how is the AN / SPY-3 multifunctional radar with three active PAR. In addition to tracking the horizon, the Raytheon radio-electronic miracle allows you to automatically scan the sea surface for the presence of mines and periscopes of submarines, to perform the functions of a navigation radar and a complex of electronic reconnaissance. Among other things, the SPY-3 performs the functions of radar targeting anti-aircraft missiles - radio command control of the autopilot on the cruise and the "illumination" of the target. And thanks to AFAR, the number of simultaneously illuminated goals can reach many dozens!



... At this point, the story of the superearsum makes an unexpected turn, and we finally move to the genre of "alternative history." Although who knows, maybe not such an alternative ...

The fact is that the Zamvolta radio electronic detection complex was originally built according to the DBR (Dual Band Radar) scheme. This is not surprising - on warships, two specialized radars usually perform the function of general overview and search for low-flying targets. For Zamvolt, AN / SPY-3 (centimeter range) and survey AN / SPY-4 (decimeter, also with three AFAR) should have been such. The existing samples of both radars exist in reality, they were reserved for space in the superstructure of the destroyer - alas, in the 2010 year, the Yankees were faced with the need for hard financial cuts.

It was decided to save money and abandon AN / SPY-4, because in the US Navy there is no shortage of ships with early warning radars (AN / SPY-1 of the Aegis system). As a result, the Zamvolt is positioned as a strike ship with object defense.

In our abstract comparison of “the whale with the elephant” I suppose it is acceptable to assume that the “Zamvolt” was completed according to the original project - with a complete set of radar stations to monitor the far and near zones. Let it add extra hundreds of millions to the final cost of the ship, but the destroyer will be able to provide a zone theater air defense — as the Yankees assumed, before the 2010 financial constraints of the year. In the future, we will consider this option.

The same applies to the ammunition - in reality, in the cells of the peripheral guards Mk.57 there will be a self-defense missile system RIM-162 ESSM, with a max. 50 km launch range (more long-range weapons are useless due to the absence of a long-range radar). But this does not mean a ban on equipping the destroyer with heavier and longer-range ammunition - the Mk.57 OHM can carry almost the entire range of missiles used by the US Navy, including heavy 2,7-ton containers with Tomahawks. In our case, “Zamvolt”, as it was originally intended, will be armed with a Zender family of “Stenderd” - with a firing range of over 200 km.

Now everything is in order, you can move on ...

Price

The price is extremely high. The construction of the Zamvolta flew into the US budget in 3,5 billion dollars, and, taking into account the development of the super ship and its super-weapon, it reached incredible 7 billion dollars!


Advanced Electric Demonstrator - ship-layout, built on the program "Zamvolt." Its cost is included in the final cost of the destroyer. With serial construction, R & D costs will not be so sensitive - the cost of destroyers must inevitably decrease.

It would seem that the difference in the cost of the aircraft carrier (17,5 billion) and the destroyer is quite small. The aircraft carrier is more expensive in 2,5 times, with incomparable size and combat capabilities. But this is only the tip of the iceberg ...

The Zamvolt, unlike the aircraft carrier, does not require an aircraft wing - fifty Fighter Hornet fighters at a price of 80 million dollars apiece (weapon cost FY2012). It is possible to calculate F-35C for the sake of interest - but then the calculation will take a very comical form.

It should be taken into account that airplanes are an expensive expendable material; during 40-50 years of the ship’s life, its wing will be renewed at least twice (moral and physical aging, accidents and combat losses). The red line highlights the cost of jet fuel, infrastructure, parts and man-hours of those. services, qualifications of pilots and their regular training. According to Henry Hendrix, US Navy Caprang, the cost of the bombs delivered in this way exceeds 2 million per unit - it is cheaper to shoot Tomahawks in local conflicts (despite the fact that there is an even simpler and more effective way to which we will return a little lower) .

It is curious that to manage the "Zamvolt" 30 times smaller crew required - what this means probably does not require explanation. Salaries are one of the main expenses of a fleet staffed with 100% contract soldiers.

Indirect costs - not every wharf will be able to provide the 337-meter ship basing. Air wing requires a coastal air base - to accommodate aircraft during docking and repair work on the aircraft carrier. Additional fees for the passage of the Suez Canal - for the wiring of an atomic warship of monstrous dimensions and the associated risks with the Americans "tear off" in full. Etc. "little things" for all occasions.

Finally, the costs of operation and maintenance of Zamvolt are several times lower than the costs of servicing the giant Gerald Ford - I don’t have exact figures, but this is obvious, as white and black.

Alien vs. Predator

2020 year. The place of action is the Sargasso Sea (transferring actions to northern latitudes would be unfair to an aircraft carrier).

In the "spherical vacuum", the battle between Ford and Zamvolt will resemble an attempt to checkmate with two horses. A lonely black king can only lose by making a series of blunders.

The pursuit of “Zamvolt” is a deadly task: at any moment the hunter risks turning himself into a game. To see a stealth destroyer, long-range radar detection aircraft will have to move closer to him at a distance of less than 100 miles - flying at high altitude the slow and clumsy E-2D “Hawk” will be an excellent target for ship-based air defense missile systems. Moreover, the destroyer itself can, until the last moment, use passive information collection systems without giving out its presence.



Having lost target designation, the strike group will find itself in a delicate situation - to fly forward, into the unknown, means sure death - they will repeat the fate of “Hokai”. A volley of HARM missiles, which are induced by radiation from an enemy radar, means throwing several million green wrappers into the ocean - to launch HARM, you need to know the bearing on the target with high accuracy. In the end, the HARM itself and its carrier can be destroyed by the ship’s air defenses, and the HARM guidance system can be neutralized by switching the Zamvolta radars to the passive mode. The function of memorizing the coordinates of the place where the radiation was last sent from is useless - by the time HARM reaches the calculated point, the ship will be hundreds of meters away from it.

Light subsonic aircraft-based anti-ship missiles (and the Yankees do not have others) will face similar difficulties, even though they are even more vulnerable when a ship’s air defense breaks through.

To use laser-guided bombs with the Zamvolta system not suppressed, suicide.

In turn, “Zamvolt” also can not detect and catch up with “Ford” - the probability of their “close acquaintance” with each other tends to zero. Draw.

The real situation is much more interesting: at the time of the beginning of the attack, both opponents are within arm's length, within the line of sight. This was exactly the kind of naval battle that Soviet strategists saw - the Russian Navy practiced tracking the ships of a “likely enemy”, constantly “holding a gun” at the temple of the US Navy.

In just a few minutes, Zamvolt will kill any enemy squadron from its guns. Modern ships have nothing to oppose the six-inch projectiles - just one hit in the flight deck of the "Ford" threatens to fire disaster.

The Ballad of Guns

Superhero requires a super weapon! Shot! Shot! Recharge Shot! In the automated cellars of the Zamvolt, the tips of 600 shells gleam dully. The 320 of these deadly things is stored in the extra packing.

According to statistics, 30% of the world's population lives no further than 50 km from the sea coast. In the seaside strip 200 km wide, more than half the cities of the whole world are concentrated! Hamburg, Istanbul, Tokyo, New York, Shanghai, Madras, Rio de Janeiro ...


Americans recognize that most of the operations in which AUG participated in the last 30 years could have been successfully carried out with the help of naval artillery.

Two 155-mm AGS naval guns are capable of sending an 24 projectile to the target every minute. Due to full automation and effective cooling, the power of Zamvolt artillery is equivalent to an 12 land-based howitzer battery of the same caliber.

The claimed AGS firing range is up to 160 km (even if the real firing range is four times shorter, it will be a worthy result). Correction of fire - ground-based TacP groups, drones and own ship's OMS. It is terrible to imagine what will happen to coastal cities, ports and naval bases of the enemy, if a squadron of five “Zamvolts” approaches its coast.

Compared to aviation "Ford" naval artillery loses exactly, but instead has a number of outstanding abilities: guns are equally effective day and night, they are not afraid of poor visibility, fog, snowstorms and sandstorms. They work efficiently - they do not need to take off and gain altitude: a call has been received - in a minute the specified square will be mixed with stones and sand. They don’t care about the enemy’s air defense - the gunners “roll out” the S-300’s positions and burn any strategically important object (power station, airfield, railway junction), despite all the measures taken to protect them.



In the winter of 1983-84. years, the US Navy carrier strike group was unable to suppress the position of the Syrian air defense system in the Bekaa Valley (Lebanon). The battleship “New Jersey” was called for help - firing at 45 km, the veteran fired 300 shells along the coast, and blew everything there, including the command post with the commander of the Syrian contingent in Lebanon.

Finally, the cost of ammunition delivered in this way is two orders of magnitude lower than the cost of bombs and cruise missiles.

Pilots of the aircraft carrier "Ford" just bite their teeth in frustration.

The air group "Ford" remains the last two advantages - increased efficiency when attacking moving targets and the ability to strike deep into the continent. But “Zamvolt” is not simple - on its 80 rocket launchers, in each of which Tomahawk can be stored. The warhead of the rocket - 340 kg of powerful blasting. Low-altitude flight profile. Dozen attack algorithms. The launch range of 1200 ... 1600 km.

In the end, fighting deep in the land is the prerogative of the army and the air force, and the sailors have their own equally important tasks. For example - anti-submarine defense. However, for this task, Ford is useless. For an effective PLO, a hydroacoustic station with a rocker and towed low-frequency antenna, as well as a set of anti-submarine missiles (in this case, RUM-139 ASROC-VL), are needed. All this is on board the destroyer. No helicopter can match the reaction time with ASROC, and no buoys or lowered GUS compare in sensitivity and reliability to a sonar in the destroyer's nose bulb. By the way, about helicopters - two anti-submarine “Hawk” are based on board the Zamvolt.

Of the additional features of the destroyer "Zamvolt" it should be noted:

- the possibility of integration into the missile defense system, launching interceptor missiles to destroy targets in near-earth orbits;

- an increased level of security in the form of peripheral armored DPS, playing the role of a kind of “armor belt”;

- the presence on board of the UAV and uninhabited underwater vehicles - for reconnaissance, making passes in minefields and other specific functions;

- a spacious helipad in the stern of the destroyer;

- powerful and economical HES, built according to the FEP type (full electric movement);

- this quality will be important for Russia - unlike the classic AUG, the Zamvolt rocket and artillery is able to operate successfully in the waters of the Arctic and other areas of the globe with extreme climatic conditions;

- the non-nuclear “Zamvolt” can move without restrictions in the waters of the Black and Baltic Seas. The destroyer deftly bypasses all international prohibitions, moreover, that it is almost a greater threat than Nimitz and Ford combined.

Finale

Developing the idea of ​​the US Navy kapranrang Henry Hendrix, one should ask the following question: how much will the fleet's combat potential increase if instead of one atomic supergiant Gerald Ford build five destroyers Zamvolt at the same cost of the program and the life cycle of the ships.

Destroyers are autonomous combat units. Unlike an aircraft carrier, the formations of five such ships will not require any additional escort. They themselves are an escort - any Aegis-destroyer would envy their capabilities in terms of air defense / anti-aircraft weapons. They have no equal in effectiveness of fire support and bombardment of the enemy coast (in this they will be surpassed only by the old battleship "New Jersey", which has been preserved on the Delaver River since 2001).

As for the classic sea battle, in this matter the Zamvolt and Ford are equally ineffective. On the sea lanes, the submarines rule the ball - invisible merciless killers, ready in two accounts to deal with any enemy.

Of course, now the authoritative opinion will be heard that for a “balanced” fleet it is necessary to have both “Zamvolt” and “Gerald Ford”. It only remains to recall the popular wisdom that being rich and healthy is undoubtedly better than not being such. It should be understood that, according to the capabilities of the military-industrial complex, Russia is obviously inferior to the United States, which builds a fleet with money from the whole world and therefore think little of its value. We have to compromise. Carefully choose the best of the best - in order to have comparable opportunities at a lower cost.


"Gerald R. Ford" in November 2013


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108 comments
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  1. realist
    +11
    27 December 2013 09: 57
    Great article, devoid of bias and put everything in its place
    1. +12
      27 December 2013 10: 57
      The article is what you need. Thanks to the author. It cleans the brain well of abusive ideas, especially in a real economic situation.
      "... being rich and healthy is better than being poor and sick ..."What is there to argue?
    2. +6
      27 December 2013 11: 07
      Quote: Realist
      Great article, devoid of bias and put everything in its place

      I agree with you, the author thanks a lot for the work and ability to transfer the reader to another reality or virtual reality (I don’t even know how to express myself).
      If I correctly understood the respected author, he brings us to a dilemma between a high-tech destroyer or a no less high-tech floating airfield!
      I wonder if this airdrome will accompany the same newest destroyer?
      The capabilities of the new destroyer are really impressive, if it really is as declared by marine experts from the US Navy, but the main conclusion from Oleg’s article (hello Friendly hi ) which I made for myself is an adequate answer, that is, 4th generation submarines! Will their relatives manage (near their shores) both with destroyers and aircraft carriers?
    3. +27
      27 December 2013 13: 52
      Quote: Realist
      Great article, devoid of bias and put everything in its place
      And what has this article put "in its place"? You can just as well oppose the right arm to the left leg. Two ships of the same country are compared, moreover, not even created, as opponents of each other by class. Everything is powdered with compassionate concern for the Russian budget, but the conclusion is again the same - Russia does not need to take a steam bath. Think so Stalin, we would forever be left without an ocean-going fleet, because the time was hard, after the First World War and the Civil War. Our country went to the ocean fleet for a long time and difficult, but it had to be done, since the fleet is not built in one day. Interesting work for Oleg. We have only one aircraft carrier, they prove to us, and we don’t need to think about them at all, this is an "American" colonial weapon. We have nuclear missile cruisers, here, on the contrary, we do not need them, this is only our perversion, advanced Americans do not have them. According to Oleg, the unique Arctic boats, which were a hemorrhoid for the United States, which they first tried to destroy by financing their cutting, do not "fit" into the sea, are noisy, there are no missiles, in a word, the remaining Sharks must be urgently cut. Something is not opposed to the American aircraft carriers ekranoplan "Lun" (of course, again expensive), do not recall the missile "Bora" on an air cushion. There is a concern about the "Sharks" for which there are no missiles, but there is no concern about the problems of the "Boreys" for which, as it turns out, there may be no missiles. Aircraft carriers are persecuted, but laudatory odes and justifications for construction over the hill to the Mistrals, with a favorite example about the leader Tashkent. The fleet lives for more than one day, the same pre-war cooperation with Italy made it possible to design and build cruisers and battleships in the USSR, it took years. If we are now crying about our poverty, tomorrow it will be too late to catch up, we will lose power and personnel, perhaps we will not be able to build boats, not only ocean ships. I don’t want to think so, but Oleg’s ideological work, with his undoubted literary talent, rather deserves a medal of the Congress than approval in Russia.
      1. +15
        27 December 2013 13: 57
        Quote: Per se.
        There is only one conclusion again - Russia does not need to bathe like that.

        It’s strange, but I have a conclusion that we need to build a cruiser in the likeness of Zamvoltov.
        1. +8
          27 December 2013 21: 08
          Quote: Kars
          It’s strange, but I have a conclusion that we need to build a cruiser in the likeness of Zamvoltov.
          First of all, I meant aircraft carriers. Regarding "Zamvolt", here is the text from the article - "As for the classic naval battle, in this matter," Zamvolt "and" Ford "are equally ineffective. Submarines rule the show on sea communications - invisible ruthless killers, ready to deal with any enemy. " Why then describe the ideas of the valiant raiding "Zamvolt" than it is better than the previous ideas on submarines, the question is. The Americans did not design these ships for the tasks that were colorfully painted by Oleg ("Alien vs. Predator"), although the destroyer is multipurpose, but the main emphasis in it is made to attack coastal targets and ground targets, and not to fight the enemy's AUG, and, no it makes sense to oppose five such destroyers to one aircraft carrier. The Americans have a clear military doctrine, according to which they develop their navy, and do not oppose different organs of the same organism to each other, do not look for how many "fingers" are needed to replace one "member". Finally, why is it necessary to compare everything to the absurdly with the United States, and not with the same China or another country with a strong navy, and why is Russia being exposed forever so poor and sick that it must seek these miserable "compromises"?
          1. +3
            27 December 2013 21: 39
            Quote: Per se.
            As for the classic naval battle,

            Also an unlikely event.
            Quote: Per se.
            Why then describe the ideas of the valiant raiding of "Zamvolt"

            Well, I wouldn’t say raiding - here it’s rather a British imperial cruiser, at gunpoints of which the natives exchange ivory for mirrors (oil for dollars)
            Quote: Per se.
            and not against the enemy’s ACG,

            And where is the enemy’s AUG somewhere? And Oleg vryatli considers the hunt for US aircraft carriers as the main task of the Russian fleet.
            Quote: Per se.
            it makes no sense to oppose five such destroyers to one aircraft carrier

            Why? You may not need to bleed them, but consider who is more efficient / cheaper / faster / safer to perform a specific task.
            Quote: Per se.
            why Russia is forever exposed so poor and sick,

            Well, you know better
            1. +1
              27 December 2013 22: 21
              Quote: Kars
              why Russia is forever exposed so poor and sick,
              Well, you know better

              Found who to taunt and where to pin up

              It’s better to compare Ukraine with some Germany (even East) or South Korea - that’s where dullness and wretchedness are. Even funnier than the eternal comparison of Russia vs USA
            2. +5
              27 December 2013 22: 43
              Quote: Kars
              Why? You may not need to bleed them, but consider who is more efficient / cheaper / faster / safer to perform a specific task.
              What task can a "Zamvolt" like in the Russian Navy perform? We read from Oleg - "the non-nuclear" Zamvolt "can move without restrictions in the waters of the Black and Baltic Seas. The destroyer cleverly bypasses all international bans, moreover, it poses almost a greater threat than" Nimitz "and" Ford "combined" where Oleg determines and his main task is not what the Americans created him for - "In the end, combat operations in the depths of land are the prerogative of the army and the air force, and the sailors have their own, no less important tasks. For example, anti-submarine defense." So, anti-submarine defense by a "stealth destroyer", which also "In just a few minutes," Zamvolt "will kill any enemy squadron from its cannons. Modern ships have nothing to oppose to six-inch shells - just one hit on the flight deck of" Ford "threatens that with a fiery catastrophe ". So many fantasies and ways to put pants over your head, for the sake of one thing - Russia does not need aircraft carriers, neither now nor after (Carthage must be destroyed).
              1. +2
                27 December 2013 23: 04
                Quote: Per se.
                the non-atomic Zamvolt can move without restrictions along the waters of the Black and Baltic Seas.

                I think maybe.
                Quote: Per se.
                where Oleg is determined and his main task is not what the Americans created him for

                so he interprets for the Russian Federation. although it would be interesting who is better cheaper and so on would iron Georgia .. Russian ..zamvolt or Kuznetsov (who is an aircraft carrier)

                Quote: Per se.
                For example - anti-submarine defense. "

                here I’m not sure. but personally, I would have made a special anti-submarine lockup for a pair of artillery.

                Quote: Per se.
                In just a few minutes, Zamvolt will kill any enemy squadron from its guns.

                it would be interesting to see the Russian zavolst fight with the Turkish squadron in the Black Sea.
                Quote: Per se.
                For so many fantasies and ways to put on pants over their heads, for the sake of one thing, Russia does not need aircraft carriers, neither now nor after

                But what do they really need? I personally think that your money - build whatever you want.

                But in fact, it is interesting who will win if the island countries are given a fixed amount of money, and the task of ruining the opponent’s economy by force of arms is those who will build a supercarrier or a neo-battleship.
                1. +3
                  27 December 2013 23: 56
                  Quote: Kars
                  it would be interesting who is better cheaper and so on would iron Georgia .. Russian ..zamvolt or Kuznetsov (which is an aircraft carrier)
                  The Black Sea and the Baltic are not relevant for our aircraft carriers, but, here, the Mediterranean and beyond is another matter. It is cheaper and easier to "iron" Georgia with land-based complexes, this is not an overseas territory, but a border area for us. Bora-class ships could well have dealt with the Turks on the Black Sea, plus basic aviation. Aircraft carriers are needed as long as aviation is needed at sea, I always repeat, as soon as aviation is not needed, its carriers will not be needed either, however, the need for aviation is only increasing. Who knows, perhaps nuclear-powered missile-artillery battleships-icebreakers will still return to the waters of the Arctic.
                  1. +2
                    28 December 2013 00: 01
                    Quote: Per se.
                    and, here, the Mediterranean and beyond, is another matter

                    Are you going to shoot Sardinia? Or can provide fire support to Assad?

                    Quote: Per se.
                    Carriers needed as long as aviation needed at sea

                    And why is she there? With whom in the middle of the ocean are you going to fight?
                    Quote: Per se.
                    however, the need for aviation is only growing

                    Where? In the open ocean?
                    Quote: Per se.
                    Who knows, perhaps the nuclear missile-artillery battleships-icebreakers still return to the waters of the Arctic.

                    Unless in my dreams.
        2. 0
          8 January 2014 01: 12
          only such a destroyer will be in the area of ​​the strait 50-100 km wide. At the same time, a stealth drone is not expensive to find it. You can launch 10-20 guided self-guided anti-ship missiles at serious speeds. You can spare a dozen drones to figure out an approximate square; it's too expensive to risk it.
      2. +5
        27 December 2013 19: 34
        I agree. If not nonsense, then an alternative lure. Compare these two ships, how to compare armored personnel carriers and the main tank, each in its own need and good. Why attract by the ears, then why not? Americans would print dollars if these prospects were real.
    4. Airman
      +2
      28 December 2013 13: 42
      Quote: Realist
      Great article, devoid of bias and put everything in its place


      Kaptsov, as always, embellished it a little. A VGAS cannon with a firing range of up to 180 km was planned for Zimvolt, but it did not go. Adopted by the AGS, on tests it fired at a maximum of 110 km, and the maximum rate of fire was 10,7 rounds per minute. The shell costs 35 thousand green. "Zimvolt" is hardly noticeable only on head-on courses, it shines well from the side. I understand the article is intended to convince us of the uselessness of aircraft carriers. If there is no radar of the decimeter range, then there is no missile defense at 200 km.
  2. +2
    27 December 2013 10: 09
    from the Don.
    Yes! There is something to think about for our shipbuilders!
  3. Yarikizyarika
    -4
    27 December 2013 10: 15
    Our newest RTOs "Grad Sviyazhsk" and "Uglich" will smash this chalabuda to smithereens and in half. Let them just stick around ... wassat
    1. +3
      27 December 2013 20: 13
      Good sarcasm wassat
    2. 310815
      0
      5 January 2014 01: 00
      God forbid that they would be stuck, otherwise Port Arthur is waiting for us in the scale of the universe (full PPC)
  4. Corporal
    +1
    27 December 2013 10: 15
    It remains only to verify the calculations in practice. drinks
  5. +29
    27 December 2013 10: 19
    Here's a real elephant fight with a whale laughing
    1. Why are these AWACS radars not upgraded to detect a stealth adversary? Yes, and to put on the anti-ship missile systems not the radar seeker when the Tsumwalt enemies appear, the modernization is not great
    2. EMNIP ESSM requires illumination at some stage, and at least before the shot, the radar will turn on. From here - goodbye stealth. Determined by passive means. In short, we are invisible (or rather, we see not from 400 km, but from hundreds) until we fight, as we fired (or rather decided to shoot), we see right away.
    3. Organization of a group attack on a ship in the absence of a radio location contact - see WWII history - not a problem, a question of working out on exercises (for the task itself was solved as early as the 1940s)
    4. EW acts on everyone, even on Tsumwalt's radars. Hence the question of competent preparation of the attack of such a ship
    Well, and about the execution of the AUG warrant from guns - well, it’s just a kindergarten (and I’m your tank, and I’m your tank by plane laughing ) Apparently no one will put any interference on Tsumwalt's control systems. A central control station for a hundred kilometers will work perfectly, and at that time the aircraft will stand peacefully on the deck, and the security ships will not let the missiles out of the politeness of the missile either from the cannon (at a range already
  6. +20
    27 December 2013 10: 20
    Many thanks to Oleg, otherwise they got articles like "The collapse of the orange blitzkrieg in Ukraine", "The Baltic panorama: they clearly lack a" sensible occupation "...", "Failed Congress and failed Obama: two boots of a pair" ...
    Okay, now on the topic. Confrontation Ford Zamvolt you described extremely categorically. In any case, Ford will find Zamvolta first, because It has a lot of intelligence, Hawkeye-D, UAV type X-47 (or whoever will be there instead), Growler. Even with the loss of Hokai (and for Ford it will certainly be sad, but not tragic), the air group from Ford will be able to determine the square in which the invisible enemy is located. For example, using the same UAV of the X-47 type (invisibility versus invisibility, of course, this is a difficult question). Ford's aircraft can strike at Zamvolt with the help of a mass of missiles and an even greater mass of false targets such as MALD-J, Zvolvta’s air defense will not survive such an attack, and Ford can make more than one such attack. For Zamvolt, hitting a single anti-ship missile system is fraught with incapacitating part of the electronic equipment and, accordingly, reducing the possibility of air defense systems.
    In the winter of 1983-84. years, the US Navy carrier strike group was unable to suppress the position of the Syrian air defense system in the Bekaa Valley (Lebanon). The battleship “New Jersey” was called for help - firing at 45 km, the veteran fired 300 shells along the coast, and blew everything there, including the command post with the commander of the Syrian contingent in Lebanon.

    This is certainly true, but since that time, the level of "smart" weapons has grown significantly. Now it would be done with a pair of Axes.
    According to statistics, 30% of the world's population lives no further than 50 km from the sea coast. In the coastal strip 200 km wide, more than half of the cities of the whole world are concentrated! Hamburg, Istanbul, Tokyo, New York, Shanghai, Madras, Rio de Janeiro ... Two 155-mm AGS sea guns are capable of sending 24 projectiles every minute.

    As it were, yes, but not for all purposes 155mm power is enough. shell. Somewhere and b / h at 300kg. need or special concrete munitions. In aviation, the range of ammunition is much wider especially in terms of power.
    It should be understood that in the capabilities of the military-industrial complex, Russia is obviously inferior to the United States, which are building a fleet with money from around the world and therefore think little about its value. We will have to compromise. Carefully choose the best of the best - in order to have comparable opportunities at a lower cost.

    We now need to think more about education and medicine, otherwise there will be nobody to come up with. They will come up with ...
  7. avt
    +20
    27 December 2013 10: 22
    Well, it started. laughing How else to annoy the aircraft carriers? We have already had submarines, well, let us play them off in the astral plane with Zumvolt, to the delight of Oleg's admirers. ”And now the grateful apologists have checked out another dose of anti-aircraft creativity.
    Quote: Realist
    Great article, devoid of bias and put everything in its place

    Quote: borisjdin1957
    Yes! There is something to think about for our shipbuilders!

    Straight some sort of totalitarian sect. And the "stupid" Americans, as before, not reading Oleg's works and not listening to the opinion of the followers of his sect, are still building, within the framework of the adopted strategy, aircraft carriers, UDC and DK for their non-existing over-the-horizon landing. Well, stupid !!! laughing
    1. ed65b
      +4
      27 December 2013 12: 12
      everything in order avt. Zadolbalo the work of politicians, even let us take a soul laughing But agree Olezh, beautiful, how did you fail? A. We follow the discussion and bring in its own 5 kopecks. hi
  8. +2
    27 December 2013 10: 26
    It’s easy to squander money on such weapons when you rob the whole world ...
    1. +8
      27 December 2013 11: 56
      Zamolt’s ad amused. About invisibility. While the ship is in a passive state, it is quite difficult to find, even the typical Arly Burke torment while you find it. But in passivity, the ship as a combat unit is of little use, and, therefore, all this invisibility will mainly help only when advancing to the right square. EPR boats? Radar planes and helicopters will not miss such a target.
      The ship is undoubtedly outstanding. His chip is not at all stealth technology, but an unprecedented energy supply. The ship was created so that it could use electromagnetic pushing and lasers.
      In general, an interesting thing. By the way, before the USSR built missile cruisers - they intersect in some way.
    2. -2
      27 December 2013 22: 16
      Quote: DAGESTANETS333
      It’s easy to squander money on such weapons when you rob the whole world ...


      Tell me, what did the Americans personally rob you of?
      Well, not in general terms, but in a specific amount - what kind of material benefits did you receive and in what quantity due to the presence of the dollar in the world laughing
      If possible with the calculation
  9. +6
    27 December 2013 10: 55
    The Americans are working out the latest technologies and the possibility of using various military equipment in various conditions, and in this they have practically no equal. Based on the errors found, more advanced combat systems will be built. Unfortunately, we are far from them in this respect, but there is a way out. We need to learn from mistakes of our potential adversaries, to study the possibilities and shortcomings of their technology. And this can be helped by intelligence, which has repeatedly proved and justified the funds spent on it. I hardly believe that all Americans are very close McCain hates us and our country, there are others who can help us in this matter.
  10. +4
    27 December 2013 11: 29
    Whale or elephant, who will win?)) What is there with the railgun that they wanted to put on the Zumvolts in the future? Judging by the open materials (propaganda ??), this is feasible in the foreseeable future. And such a situation is not at all pleasant. If they bring to real production models, it will be necessary to urgently catch up and then the presence of such weapons will become the most important topic. But! Even with a firing range of 300 km, the Zumvolts in the open sea (if there are less than 20 of them) have no chance against the AUG, why so the comrades here have already painted everything. Well, if you fantasize, then please, let's say Zumvolt is so invisible, then, the search network from small drones of drones from an aircraft carrier. They do not even need to detect anything, to locate the places of their destruction and triangulate. And no Hokai need to sacrifice.
  11. +4
    27 December 2013 11: 38
    Man assumes, but God disposes! hi
    Analytics is certainly good, but in the nature of using something, there are many phenomena and factors that refute calculations, theories and analysis.
    It does not even seem to me that the statement is superior to the superiority of the HUD over the submerged one, because at different depths the density, flow, etc. are different, and the Hook is always on the same level. ocean), almost always there is little excitement and the current therefore, while drifting, at some point, the Zumvolt board may be perpendicular to the radar radiation or the current will turn it the same side.
    Well, starting firing cannons along the coast, it is enough to cover Zumvolt’s firing range with the volley fire system from the coast and you don’t have to look for it; in battle, nobody will certainly count money, the result is important.
    And so, of course, it’s interesting to analyze and comparehi
  12. 0
    27 December 2013 11: 42
    Many thanks to Oleg, as always, for the article and, as a continuation of her comments.
    We are waiting for the appearance of Andrew smile
  13. ed65b
    +1
    27 December 2013 12: 09
    Well done Oleg. laughing Do not wash so skating. We will wait for the response of AUG fans. I like it.
    1. +4
      27 December 2013 13: 05
      I am not a fan of AUG, but the answer is obvious - both ships are American.
      Looking at the pace and quality of work of our military-industrial complex in the field of shipbuilding, I’m afraid that when we have an analogue of a sound boom in terms of capabilities, American AVs such as J. Ford will already be cut into needles and forgotten.
  14. +1
    27 December 2013 13: 06
    Thank you Oleg, it’s always nice to read your articles, they correspond to the site, otherwise geopolitics got it drinks
    1. 0
      27 December 2013 22: 20
      +100500
      Although he is an opponent of the religion "death to aircraft carriers", but at least on the topic.
  15. +2
    27 December 2013 13: 09
    155 mm cannon and several hundred shells in a coastal war this little less than nothing.
    1. +3
      27 December 2013 14: 01
      Quote: EvilLion
      in coastal war this little

      Well, why - since the Korean War, the accuracy of artillery guns has increased slightly.
      even though I would prefer 203-254 mm
      1. +2
        27 December 2013 20: 34
        Quote: Kars
        Well, why - since the Korean War, the accuracy of artillery guns has increased slightly.
        even though I would prefer 203-254 mm

        Even more is needed, for the power is 155mm. the projectile is relatively small given that part of the projectile is occupied by the guidance and correction system.
  16. +7
    27 December 2013 14: 17
    unlike classic aug, rocket-artillery "Zamvolt" is able to successfully operate in the waters of the Arctic and other areas of the globe with extreme climatic conditions;
    Does it have ice-breaking properties? And how thick is it capable of breaking ice? Judging by the shape of the nose, he will crawl under the years and, floating up, enchantingly break the ice. And what about the stability of the sides from compression by ice fields? Will it turn out like a Pomeranian goat or dive?
    wassat
    1. +1
      27 December 2013 14: 39
      Quote: abrakadabre
      Does it have ice-breaking properties? And how thick is it capable of breaking ice?

      He will follow the icebreaker
      1. +8
        27 December 2013 14: 44
        and the icebreaker will have stealth contours and speed in the ice of knots 30 :))
        1. +5
          27 December 2013 15: 11
          and the icebreaker will have stealth contours and speed in the ice of knots 30 :))
          This is in pack ice. And in the simpler ice, he will generally overtake the Flurry rocket torpedo. Again, you can disguise yourself under the ice.
        2. -1
          27 December 2013 15: 48
          Quote: Tlauicol
          there will be stealth contours and speed in the ice nodes 30 :))

          there the key question is whether he will be able to crawl to a given area of ​​the Akrtiki and shell the coast

          Zamvolt will be able to. The width of its hull is less than the width of the icebreaker. Somehow they will cope with icing - it will thaw, clean it. Guns hit in any weather.
          1. +2
            27 December 2013 16: 10
            for what ? so as not to burn raspberries
            1. +2
              27 December 2013 16: 30
              Quote: Tlauicol
              for what ? so as not to burn raspberries

              Do not know request
              The same Kremlin is constantly buzzing about an increase in military presence in the Arctic and future wars in those latitudes.

              In general, a senseless raid of the TKR "Admiral Scheer" in the Kara Sea, 1942
              1. +1
                27 December 2013 16: 58
                the boat will make the same senseless raid both faster and less noticeable. Zamvolt for something else is needed. maybe Venezuela’s turn is already request
                1. -1
                  27 December 2013 17: 11
                  Quote: Tlauicol
                  the boat will make the same senseless raid both faster and less noticeable.

                  Who cares, it’s all the same meaningless

                  The artillery fire of a German submarine on 25 August damaged the Cape Zhelaniya polar station.

                  On July 27, U-601 entered the Maly Kormakuly (north of the Belushya Bay) in a surface position and destroyed two seaplanes of polar aviation, three houses, and two wintering warehouses here with artillery fire.

                  Quote: Tlauicol
                  Zamvolt for something else is needed. maybe Venezuela’s turn is already

                  unlike the classical AUG, Zamvolt is able to operate in areas with extreme climate. as necessary - let Washington and the Kremlin decide
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. +5
                27 December 2013 20: 58
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                The same Kremlin is constantly buzzing about an increase in military presence in the Arctic and future wars in those latitudes.

                I wish someone could become the master of the Arctic, but some short-sighted people ...
                1. 0
                  27 December 2013 23: 16
                  I wanted to add, the TK-202 has already been sawn, a photograph of 1990.
                  1. +1
                    28 December 2013 01: 29
                    Quote: saturn.mmm
                    I wanted to add, TK-202 is already sawn

                    They were initially unviable
                    R-39 missiles are no longer there, as is the need for such 90-ton SLBMs
                    Quote: saturn.mmm
                    1990 year shot.

                    It’s rare that I save it to the computer, but, with your permission, I’ll take it to the archive. Heartbreakingly beautiful photo
                    1. 0
                      28 December 2013 13: 23
                      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                      R-39 missiles are no longer there, as is the need for such 90-ton SLBMs

                      You can make multipurpose ones from them, you can put a Bulava, a lot of things, there is a lot of space and energy, experts say that it is very maneuverable.
                      Personally, it’s not my professional opinion that Zamvolt has little chance of surviving in the ice of the Arctic, you don’t really use GAS, you won’t do the anti-torpedo maneuver, the helicopter is useless.
                      The photo is not mine http://pikabu.ru/story/apl_pr_941_akula_sistemyi_tayfun_tk202_iyul_1990_g_arktik
                      a_87_gr_ssh__305943 but I think the author will not mind.
                      Partially figured out the F-22 EPR, Lockheed Martin experts stated that the F-22 EPR was classified, but when certain parts of the aircraft were irradiated at certain angles, they received an EPR of the order of -40 dB cm2 ... somewhere like that.
                      Interestingly, does this apply to you in any way?
                      http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/news/press-releases/2013/december/131223ae_swee
                      t-sixteen.html
                      1. 0
                        28 December 2013 16: 19
                        Quote: saturn.mmm
                        You don’t really use GAS, you won’t do the anti-torpedo maneuver, the helicopter is useless.

                        But the fluffs are shooting! And this is the main point
                        Quote: saturn.mmm
                        Interestingly, does this apply to you in any way?
                        http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/news/press-releases/2013/december/131223ae_swee

                        t-sixteen.html

                        No, this refers to the 16 account of SuperGalexy
                        but it turned out funny))
                      2. 0
                        28 December 2013 17: 26
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        But the fluffs are shooting! And this is the main point

                        Perhaps you won’t frighten the ice with this.
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        No, this refers to the 16 account of SuperGalexy
                        but it turned out funny))

                        Probably the specialists of Lockheed Martin are looking through the Military Review.
          2. +4
            27 December 2013 16: 15
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            for what?
            there the key question is whether he will be able to crawl to a given area of ​​the Akrtiki and shell the coast

            Zamvolt will be able to. The width of its hull is less than the width of the icebreaker. Somehow they will cope with icing - it will thaw, clean it. Guns hit in any weather.


            Oleg, then why is there Zamvolt? if this is the way to deliver artillery to those latitudes and for this purpose (firing cannons), then it’s possible to re-preserve the old battleships
            1. +1
              27 December 2013 16: 38
              Quote: Delta
              then you can re-preserve the old battleships

              do we have old battleships?

              however, the idea is not bad - for example, for the Yankees using the 70 drawings of the summer ago to build Baltimore with 203 mm artillery.

              look online for documents 2007-05_JFSC_Thesis_NFS_and_DDG-1000
              a story about why zamwolt is ineffective and with these funds it was possible to build an even steeper ship for coasting - Capital Surface Warship (CWS)
              1. +4
                27 December 2013 16: 43
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                do we have old battleships?


                we do not have. You compared in a subject two of american the ship. They have as museums, but it’s still possible to bring them into a state of war. Yes, and the same Ticonderoga - are not suitable for shelling the coast ?.

                unlike the classical AUG, the rocket-artillery Zamvolt is able to successfully operate in the waters of the Arctic and other regions of the globe with extreme climatic conditions


                and this phrase is yours
                1. 0
                  27 December 2013 16: 56
                  Quote: Delta
                  we do not have. You compared two American ships in the subject.

                  Reactivate Iowa is unlikely to succeed. Too ancient

                  But here is the discussion of the Naval Gunfire Suppurt and the creation of the neo-battleship (CWS project) - the conversations are on the official level (links a little higher). Someday it will become reality, much has already been embodied in Zamvolta


                  The replacement of two DDG-51 ships with two CSW in the OMFTS scenario demonstrates a 30% to 70% increase (based on target type) in combat power placed at the hands of the Joint Force Commander. CSW delivers much greater firepower than either DDG-51 or DDG-1000. The two CSW garners kills greater than 80 aircraft sorties which include a B-52.
                  1. 0
                    27 December 2013 20: 43
                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    But here is the discussion of the Naval Gunfire Suppurt and the creation of the neo-battleship (CWS project) - the conversations are on the official level (links a little higher). Someday it will become reality, much has already been embodied in Zamvolta

                    As far as I understand, you are a supporter of the idea of ​​a neo-battleship, such as a story repeating in a spiral?
              2. 0
                27 December 2013 22: 25
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                Quote: Delta
                then you can re-preserve the old battleships

                do we have old battleships?

                however, the idea is not bad - for example, for the Yankees using the 70 drawings of the summer ago to build Baltimore with 203 mm artillery.

                look online for documents 2007-05_JFSC_Thesis_NFS_and_DDG-1000
                a story about why zamwolt is ineffective and with these funds it was possible to build an even steeper ship for coasting - Capital Surface Warship (CWS)


                In my opinion, both Zumwalt and similar ships are the inertia of thinking and the admirals disagreeing with the fact that aviation is the main striking force for both strikes on the sea and strikes on the coast.
                Especially for blows along the coast.
                It seems like not a single large-scale sea-against-coast battle has been fought since the WWII without the presence of land airfields with strike aircraft near the sea side
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. 0
                  28 December 2013 01: 33
                  Quote: cdrt
                  , and for strikes along the coast, the main striking force is aviation.

                  hit a lot on the coast in Lebanon in 1984

                  And here’s another shot - HMS Cardiff after shelling the coast in the morning (just for the Falkland-82 campaign, British ships fired 14 000 shells of the caliber 114 mm)
                  Quote: cdrt
                  disagreement of admirals to accept that aviation is the main striking force for both strikes on the sea and strikes on the coast.

                  The conclusion is about nothing. Just your desire to prove your fantasies
          3. 0
            30 December 2013 11: 36
            there the key question is whether he will be able to crawl to a given area of ​​the Akrtiki and shell the coast
            Icebreaker or Zumvolt? The icebreaker will definitely be able to.
            Judging by the population density of the Arctic coasts, this unit needs to be fired five to ten times farther than the claimed 100-200 km.
      2. +3
        27 December 2013 17: 14
        Having the stem of the reverse slope and at the same time the GAS in the nose bulb, and not under the bottom, I think he has nothing to do in such areas.
        1. 0
          27 December 2013 17: 40
          Quote: mhpv
          Having the stem of the reverse slope and at the same time the GAS in the nose bulb, and not under the bottom, I think he has nothing to do in such areas.

          Peter has repeatedly walked that route
          1. +1
            27 December 2013 21: 30
            Oleg! Well, you know perfectly well that icebreakers work by leaning on the ice, breaking it with a stem, and not ramming it with it. In this case, Peter will still push the ice floes crushed by the icebreaker, the stem, and not like Zumvalt, which has a bulb And the collision even with small ice floes is very scary, believe me, I had a chance to experience this on the running gear in March in Tikhiy, we immediately left the area on Pr.1124, by the way, you should know about the Chevron GAS submerged on this project, and about " Argun "slick. I only heard in the work of" Argun ", I can not imagine how submariners hear it, but probably like in" Das Boot "it is scary when they see you and do not let go. In general, service at sea is a huge risk for the crew, because there are fewer chances to be saved than on earth.
            1. 0
              27 December 2013 22: 01
              Quote: mhpv
              in this case, anyway, Peter will push the ice floes, crushed already by the icebreaker, foreshortened, and not like Zumwalt, who had the bulb earlier.

              Bulb goes beyond the extreme point of the waterline in both cases

              The tilt of the stem does not matter at all
    2. 0
      27 December 2013 22: 21
      Quote: abrakadabre
      unlike classic aug, rocket-artillery "Zamvolt" is able to successfully operate in the waters of the Arctic and other areas of the globe with extreme climatic conditions;
      Does it have ice-breaking properties? And how thick is it capable of breaking ice? Judging by the shape of the nose, he will crawl under the years and, floating up, enchantingly break the ice. And what about the stability of the sides from compression by ice fields? Will it turn out like a Pomeranian goat or dive?
      wassat


      How Zumwalt will fight was shown in the film "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" - there Captain Nemo's ship is exactly the same as Zumwalt by the contours laughing
      1. 0
        27 December 2013 22: 29
        Quote: cdrt
        "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" - there is Captain Nemo's ship just like Zumwalt in lines

  17. +2
    27 December 2013 14: 48
    I read the article, I was happy for the Americans. That's how much money was spent for the creation of TWO !!! ships. And if you run them in a series? So it seems that with the construction of new ships two mints are being built in parallel to print additional green papers.
    But seriously, these ships are good while they are quiet. As soon as they prove themselves to be fighting, they are dead.
    Let me explain - No one canceled the ammunition with EMP.
    1. +1
      27 December 2013 20: 26
      NWF is already a nuclear war. Can ships not be built at all now, is there an NWF?
    2. 0
      10 June 2014 10: 29
      "Zumwalts" will be built only 3 pieces. "Gerald Fords" - also 3. The opinion is that "Zumwalt" is not a destroyer, but rather a BOD. Some new cruiser will be built to replace the "Tickenderogs" will be replaced by "Virginias"
  18. +6
    27 December 2013 14: 51
    A good article, but the battle of an aircraft carrier vs a destroyer, as usual with Oleg) Here, everyone has already described in the comments, but even the simplest simulation in the head shows that Zamvolt will be detected first or mutually detected if you destroy Hokai or another reconnaissance and surveillance aircraft . Next, a drone and a duty link with a pair of anti-ship missiles each in radio silence mode, for example, at low altitude, will be sent, then reconnaissance of the target, jump, strike and maintenance of the horizon and the agony of the destroyer will begin)
    The Americans understand this well and invest tens of billions of dollars clearly not in vain, because of their stupidity. An excellent ship escort, support, etc. and obviously very strong in battle, but Ford's weapon is aviation, and its capabilities are well known.
    And when Zamvolt reaches all the declared parameters, and this, as usual, will happen in some modification after 10 years (change the Zamvolt block 3), then we will see how the armament of the aircraft carrier will change, although it is now enough.
    If you choose ships for the Russian Navy, then I agree with the author, a balanced fleet begins generally with minesweepers, etc. to an aircraft carrier as the quintessence of the size of expenses and power, but if there are no normal destroyers (and other smaller ships), then an aircraft carrier is not needed and for Russia 5 modern destroyers are better than 1 new aircraft carrier.
    The Americans returned to the good old six-inch and I have long been a supporter of artillery, the time of large guns will not be very soon, because in a number of combat parameters, artillery is unparalleled. We will be back, I think. In Soviet times, the 152 mm caliber on modern ships was actively developed (and even a larger caliber)
  19. +1
    27 December 2013 15: 04
    The article is pure fantasy. Although the author admits that he fantasizes a bit with the equipment of ships. To begin with, at the moment this aircraft carrier is just a bare dummy hull and will stay for a long time since: Electromagnetic catapults for him do not exist and there is not even a working prototype, and you can’t put a steam hull anymore.
    The same story for him with radars, no one saw them in working form. We have not yet begun to design the aerofinish and what it will be incomprehensible. Now let’s go through Zamwolt: The author mentioned about radars but forgot to say that only the gun part is functioning from the entire list of weapons, and that is not an ordinary weapon in terms of the declared parameters and after all, special shells were developed for him, in fact controlled missiles with unitary charge and firing ordinary shells and they are not possible. The destroyer bus does not work as well as on the LCS. And I believe that it is unfair to call these unfinished ships the quintessence of military power.
    1. 0
      27 December 2013 15: 42
      Quote: 1c-inform-city
      The same story for him with radars, no one saw them in working form.

      The current AN / SPY-3 model, installed aboard the destroyer "Paul F. Foster"
  20. +1
    27 December 2013 15: 11
    An interesting and peculiar article .. there is something to think about and argue about ... that's what the Voennoye Obozreniye website is for, otherwise we have somehow become politicized, although this also concerns us ... In a dispute, truth is born ... And the topic really interesting, article "plus".
  21. -3
    27 December 2013 15: 17
    By the way, the Americans still do not have a distinct anti-submarine weaponry, what they now experience in terms of parameters reaches only the Bell, and only Harpoon with anti-ship ones with a less serious caliber.
    1. +1
      27 December 2013 20: 51
      Quote: 1c-inform-city
      By the way, the Americans still do not have a distinct anti-submarine weaponry, what they now experience in terms of parameters reaches only the Bell, and only Harpoon with anti-ship ones with a less serious caliber.

      The erroneous opinion, in terms of anti-submarine equipment, they jumped us for a long time. Starting from the towed ASG and RSL (we always always lagged behind them, which is nothing but a bad copy of the US), ending with aviation systems and uninhabited autonomous underwater vehicles. In the end, the best anti-submarine weapon is a submarine, and the United States has many times more.
      The main anti-ship weapon of the United States is a plane + anti-ship missiles, which is much more effective than a ship / submarine + anti-ship missiles.
      1. +1
        27 December 2013 21: 23
        Quote: Nayhas
        which is much more efficient than a ship /Sub+ RCC.

        Based on what is determined?
        1. +2
          28 December 2013 05: 49
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          Based on what is determined?

          1: The range of the radius of the aircraft and the range of the rocket.
          2. Aircraft carrier RCC carries its own means of detecting surface targets despite the fact that not a single RCC radar has even half the power of an aircraft’s radar, and if we take into account the fact that radars with AFAR are now installed on planes, this ratio will be even greater. It’s too wasteful to put radar with AFAR on the RCC.
          3. An airplane can launch anti-ship missiles together with several false targets, thereby increasing the chance of hitting a target, while the cost of a false target is relatively small.
          4. Well and most importantly, speed and the ability to maneuver in three-dimensional space. The ship moves in comparison with the plane 20-30 times slower, and only along the plane of the water surface.
          1. -1
            28 December 2013 16: 32
            Quote: Nayhas
            1: The range of the radius of the aircraft and the range of the rocket.

            The plane can not get close to the target, while remaining unnoticed
            The submarine can.

            The submarine is absolutely invulnerable to enemy RCC
            Quote: Nayhas
            2. Aircraft carrier RCC carries its own means of detecting surface targets despite the fact that not a single RCC radar has even half the power of an aircraft radar

            The modern hull has a comparable range
            Quote: Nayhas
            Aircraft can launch anti-ship missiles along with several false targets

            The submarine can give an 8 torpedo salvo
            The destructive power of an underwater explosion is 10 times greater than that of any anti-ship missiles - the ship breaks in half
            Quote: Nayhas
            the ability to maneuver in three-dimensional space

            And the submarine supposedly does not have))

            5. Submarine is cheaper than Nimitz in 20 times
  22. +1
    27 December 2013 15: 19
    Quote: Yarikizyarika
    Our newest RTOs "Grad Sviyazhsk" and "Uglich" will smash this chalabuda to smithereens and in half. Let them just stick around ... wassat


    Dear, learn geography. Where "Grad Sviyazhsk" and "Uglich" are based, and where "D.Ford" and "Zamvolt" are based
    1. +1
      27 December 2013 21: 17
      There is a key phrase, let them just turn up ...
  23. +5
    27 December 2013 15: 56
    And I only thought in the morning. that Oleg is exhausted. But there it was. Not all bird cherry has been thrown into your window yet ... laughing

    According to the article - everything is as usual. Oleg talks about the weakness of the helicopter in the PLO compared to the capabilities of the destroyer and immediately writes about the helipad on the destroyer as an additional benefit (opportunity) for him. So why the hell are helicopters in that case? extra option, it turns out
    1. +2
      27 December 2013 16: 12
      Oleg speaks about the weakness of the helicopter in the PLO

      weakness does not mean that it is useless. An additional element of PLO, albeit not the most important. Fully relying on helicopters is a futile undertaking
      Quote: Delta
      and then he writes about the helipad on the destroyer, as an additional benefit (opportunity) for him. So why the hell are helicopters in that case?

      Check out the area of ​​the ball Helipad



      Not like SeaHawk, this is where MH-53E can land. And these are all additional features - minesweeping, delivery of any bulky cargo or a group of evacuees on board, and finally, an extra "jump airfield" for turntables

      1. +1
        27 December 2013 16: 23
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Fully relying on helicopters is a futile undertaking


        of course. So no one relies on them only. As before, when you destroy aircraft carriers, you forget (or pretend that you forget) that aircraft carriers go as part of a group. And there are the same destroyers. And helicopters. And much more. When you say that you can’t completely rely on helicopters, why don’t you hear the same about AUGs? Supporters of aircraft carriers have repeatedly told you that aircraft carriers were not created for independent victories.
        1. 0
          27 December 2013 17: 03
          Quote: Delta
          As before, when you destroy aircraft carriers, you forget (or pretend that you forget) that aircraft carriers go as part of a group. BUT

          the question is whether the Zamwolt group needs such a "fifth wheel" in the form of a Ford. They know how to do everything themselves

          Despite the fact that Ford stands, like all Gapes combined
          Quote: Delta
          When you say that you can’t completely rely on helicopters, why don’t you hear the same about AUGs?

          the basis of PLO AUG - sonar destroyers.

          Ford is of little use for these purposes - its 6-8 turntables are successfully placed on board escort ships, and he can offer nothing more

          1. +5
            27 December 2013 17: 18
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            the question is whether the Zamwolt group needs such a "fifth wheel" in the form of a Ford. They know how to do everything themselves, besides, that Ford stands like all the Zamwolts put together


            With the aircraft carrier, Zamvolty will become much stronger, there is such a thing as synergy. They themselves can do a lot, but comparatively little by little (I compare fire performance along the coast, along ships, for reconnaissance and additional reconnaissance of targets, and even according to the capabilities of anti-aircraft defense)


            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            the foundation of the AUG PLO is destroyer sonars. Ford is of little use for these purposes - its 6-8 turntables are successfully placed on board escort ships, and he can offer nothing more


            Oleg, you know very well that PLO planes were removed from the aircraft carriers in the wake of the disappearance of the threat and transferred to purely strike missiles along the shore. In reality, when a worthy adversary arises, the Americans will quickly put PLO planes onto the decks - experience, aircraft manufacturers and people who understand what and how they have in this business, and there is a lot of money too) And the best PLO are their submarines covering AUG, and with this the amers also have no shortage.
            1. +1
              27 December 2013 21: 04
              Quote: barbiturate
              Oleg, you know very well that PLO planes were removed from the aircraft carriers in the wake of the disappearance of the threat and transferred to purely strike missiles along the shore. In reality, when a worthy adversary arises, the Americans will quickly put PLO planes onto the decks - experience, aircraft manufacturers and people who understand what and how they have in this business, and there is a lot of money too) And the best PLO are their submarines covering AUG, and with this the amers also have no shortage.

              I absolutely support. The US is building up its forces in the direction in which the threat is more likely. China began to build up its surface fleet, the question immediately arose of a new anti-ship missile system, if China (or another new enemy) builds up an underwater component without a surface fleet, then anti-submarine systems will prevail in the armament of the US Navy. Although the United States has enough of them. Many submarines were molested ... But in addition to submarines, they are developing anti-submarine systems on the basis of uninhabited autonomous underwater vehicles.
            2. -1
              27 December 2013 22: 41
              Quote: barbiturate
              I compare fire performance along the shore, on ships

              Five Zavoltov will be higher by an order of magnitude

              The replacement of two DDG-51 ships with two CSW in the OMFTS scenario demonstrates a 30% to 70% increase (based on target type) in combat power placed at the hands of the Joint Force Commander. CSW delivers much greater firepower than either DDG-51 or DDG-1000. The two CSW garners kills greater than 80 aircraft sorties which include a B-52.
              firing with two battleships (Capital Surface Warship project) is equivalent to 80 sorties B-52

              5 Zamvoltov is 1 CSW + Tomahawks
              So much for the synergy
              Quote: barbiturate
              reconnaissance and follow-up goals

              The only positive quality, although not so obvious in reality. To do this, there are always UAVs, own radars and ground-based spotter groups (TAC-P special forces)
              if necessary, you can always call from the shore E-8 J-STARS (on board Nimitz there is nothing like it)
              Quote: barbiturate
              and even according to the capabilities of PLO

              Destroyers are the basis of the PLO of any compound. Ford didn’t lie nearby
              Quote: barbiturate
              Oleg, you know very well that PLO planes were removed from aircraft carriers

              Airplanes / helicopters PLO mean little. Auxiliary agent, no more
              Quote: barbiturate
              and the best PLO are their submarines,

              And what are these submarines going to fight with the discovered submarine?
              The last Yankee missile torpedo was taken out of service at 1989
              Torpedo Mk.48 will go to the target hour
              Contact with NK - a loss of time, by that time until they establish a sound supply connection, while they update the data and launch ASROK - the connection will be covered
              1. +2
                28 December 2013 07: 56
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                Five Replacements will have an order of magnitude higher The replacement of two DDG-51 ships with two CSW in the OMFTS scenario demonstrates a 30% to 70% increase (based on target type) in combat power placed at the hands of the Joint Force Commander. CSW delivers much greater firepower than either DDG-51 or DDG-1000. The two CSW garners kills greater than 80 aircraft sorties which include a B-52. Firing with two battleships (Capital Surface Warship project) is equivalent to 80 B-525 Zamvolt combat missions - this is 1 CSW + Tomahawks

                Oleg, well, you understand that so far this is all Wishlist and the real fire performance of 5 locks nobody knows in comparison with the aircraft carrier, but everyone knows and understands the versatility and firepower of aviation, the depth of its impact, responsiveness, etc. I am a big fan of battleships when working on the coast and artillery in the above privacy, but this is still a relatively narrow coastal strip from the coast + the need to come close to the coast, which is still bearable for a strong battleship, but for cardboard Zwolvta one or two hits in response will be fatal for combat readiness + I do not yet believe in the enormous firing ranges of conventional artillery (such as 160 km with normal accuracy) and if they do, I strongly suspect that this will not be artillery but something else and extremely expensive and capricious.

                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                The only positive quality, although not so obvious in reality. To do this, there are always UAVs, own radars and ground-based spotter groups (TAC-P special forces), if necessary, you can always call from the shore of the E-8 J-STARS (there is nothing like it on board Nimitz)


                It is possible, of course, from hopelessness), but all these problems will be solved much more successfully and will be 2 orders of magnitude faster (purely my opinion) if the connection includes an aircraft carrier and UDC or at least a DVDC (such as San Antonio)

                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                Airplanes / helicopters PLO mean little. Auxiliary agent, no more


                well, in vain you’re so) It’s just a distant PLO, when the boat still cannot use its weapons, and its ship is already terrifying - PLO planes and this is a red thread in the statements about the PLO of the probable enemy of our submariners, but just the ship’s GAS is much worse. I read a lot about this at one time and my conviction was stable, an airplane + a submarine is the best anti-submarine weapon for connecting ships.

                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                And what did these submarines intend to fight with the discovered submarine? The Yankees last disengaged missile launcher in 1989 The torpedo Mk.48 will go to the goal of an hour


                Well, here Oleg, I think that you do not think so, but simply defend your position))
                you can argue here for a long time, but hear from you !, that a submarine with a submarine can not do anything ...)
  24. +1
    27 December 2013 16: 12
    Well, the article is certainly not bad, although the author's sincere "love" for ships with aircraft weapons shows through literally in every word.

    However, the truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle. Undoubtedly, the operation of "full-fledged" aircraft carriers and their confrontation with the "new generation" of artillery ships will surely show that the world has changed. But in fact, there are many nuances here and I personally would not bury the carrier-based aircraft outright.

    The question is complex and probably requires consideration in a separate article. Which, if of course there is enough time and the "lazy toad" does not strangle it, I will try to write. In any case, the options here are clearly not limited to a pair of "aircraft carrier-destroyer" - and the economy also tells us about this.
  25. +1
    27 December 2013 16: 15
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    Quote: 1c-inform-city
    The same story for him with radars, no one saw them in working form.

    The current AN / SPY-3 model, installed aboard the destroyer "Paul F. Foster"

    I did not mean the radar for the destroyer. This was a complex of radars for an aircraft carrier. And this radar is not supposed to be installed on Ford.
    1. +1
      27 December 2013 16: 25
      Quote: 1c-inform-city
      And this radar is not supposed to be installed on Ford.

      Just AN / SPY-3 is included in Ford’s DBR, along with the AN / SPY-4 s-band surveillance radar (although the heck the aircraft carrier needed such a cool radio complex - it’s unclear. Av is not an air defense destroyer, many DBR capabilities will remain unclaimed, but the price has increased significantly)

      Pay attention to the Ford superstructure - two "squares" - reserved places for AFAR antenna arrays spy-3 and spy-4
  26. +1
    27 December 2013 16: 56
    Advertising is the engine. But the Zumvolt’s price is so exorbitant that even if the United States even manages to build those ships mentioned in Article 5, Russia has something to protect itself from: surveillance systems, missile and artillery coastal systems, the same RTOs of the Buyan type — and at the price of one Zumvolt, Russia build (built) protection for any theater of maritime action (the borders are now maritime with us hoo).
  27. +2
    27 December 2013 17: 34
    I wonder when there will be an article about the yacht "Arizona" with two turrets of hyperboloids and its prospects? :-)
    1. +5
      27 December 2013 17: 46
      Quote: saag
      I wonder when there will be an article about the yacht "Arizona" with two turrets of hyperboloids and its prospects? :-)

      I would like to see a detailed article about the yacht "A" of the oligarch Andrey Melnichenko.

      "Russian Zamvolt" worth 300 million dollarsdesigned by Philippe Starck and Martin Francis and built by Blohm & Voss at the HDW shipyard in Kiel. The yacht was ordered in November 2004 and transferred to the customer in 2008. The yacht has a length of 119 m and a displacement of 6000 tons, which makes it one of the largest yachts in the world.



      Gold-plated handrails of stairs, silver toilets, a horizontal bed rotating in a trachrome bed ... Know ours!

      (do not think that I am a goon and a fighter for egalitarianism - but A. Melnichenko, unlike some Paul Allen, didn’t invent anything, didn’t create and didn’t build it — only, taking this opportunity and with the connivance of the authorities, he robbed his native country and very much proud of it)
      1. 0
        27 December 2013 18: 26
        "Varyag" has not reached Australia today, but the oligarchs did not shame the honor of the golden fleet!
      2. 0
        27 December 2013 18: 34
        Was your fantasy just up to Zamvolt enough? crying

        Famous architect Zaha Hadid designed a super yacht for the Hamburg shipyard Blohm + Voss:


        http://segelreporter.com/panorama/superyachtbau-wie-sich-star-architektin-zaha-h

        adid-ein-schiff-vorstellt /

        http://www.zaha-hadid.com/
      3. 0
        27 December 2013 21: 23
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        (do not think that I am a goon and a fighter for egalitarianism - but A. Melnichenko, unlike some Paul Allen, didn’t invent anything, didn’t create and didn’t build it — only, taking this opportunity and with the connivance of the authorities, he robbed his native country and very much proud of it)

        And what is better than others: an English football club, an American basketball team ... and almost all Russian folk artists in the USA live.
        1. +2
          27 December 2013 22: 02
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          and almost all of Russia's folk artists in the United States live.

          I’ll tell you more, Mikhail — the children of all Soviet leaders live in the USA — Stalin’s daughter, Khrushchev’s son, etc. That's where the disgrace is.
  28. Jedi
    0
    27 December 2013 18: 14
    thanks to the author for the article. everything is correct and intelligible. it’s even surprising that without popular patriotism and diarrhea ...
  29. +1
    27 December 2013 18: 41
    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
    the bed rotating in the horizontal plane





    More like a hospital bed in the operating room. smile
  30. Biolant
    +1
    27 December 2013 20: 14
    Yeah, it turns out dozens of lockups and all Russian S 300 Khan?)) And tried to shoot down the S-300? I tried in the Navy, to be honest, it doesn’t work out very well ((And they will shoot farther than the guns at the bungee. And even if it doesn’t reach a bit, the nuclear warhead will do its job)) And at the moment there is something better than C -300.
  31. Yankuz
    +1
    27 December 2013 21: 44
    Well, colleagues - the time has come! I suppose it would be time for us to start preparing our answer to Zumwalt:
    1. andreirib
      -1
      28 December 2013 00: 54
      The Americans have long had such a miracle. As always ahead of everyone))) !!!
      1. 0
        10 June 2014 10: 42
        They still don’t have such a miracle. They only have inconspicuous ships of the near sea zone, the Gerald Fords and Zumwalts. We have project 11661 patrol ships, project 20380 corvettes, project 20380 corvettes are operated, project 21630 small artillery ships, frigates project 22350, small missile ships of project 21631 and will build some kind of stealth destroyer
    2. 0
      28 December 2013 07: 01
      It’s time, time .. today is January 28, 2013. And Someone promised to accept this corvette in 2014 wassat
  32. +1
    27 December 2013 22: 05
    It remains to wait for the domestic analogue of a super-destroyer (cruiser) with similar breakthrough technologies in armament wink
  33. +1
    27 December 2013 22: 53
    The next essay of this analyzer will probably be - Zumwalt against a boatman with a grenade, the fateful creak of an oarlock will decide the fight.
  34. SIT
    0
    27 December 2013 23: 46
    Why the US AUG is clear from their military doctrine. Who will be able, based on the current military doctrine of the Russian Federation, to derive the goals and objectives of our ACG? Fight their AUG? So there are 10 of them. We will even be left without Chinese underpants if we start riveting as much. And why should the naval battle now look like squadron battles of the warring parties? Ships like Nimitz, Ford are not WWII carriers. If they are destroyed, then it will not work to build as many new ones right there. And to destroy them, you can use the experience of Pearl Harbor only taking into account the 2st century. On conventional container ships, install hundreds of anti-ship missiles. Maybe even in the dark. The crew just do not know what is in the container. Track the situation through the satellite and when all AUGs are in the zone of reaching the maximum number of RCCs, press the red button. Hundreds of anti-ship missiles capable of working like a wolf pack, exchanging information with each other and being under the same control of one missile of the leader of the pack, will penetrate any air defense. AUGs are not designed for such opposition. To bomb all kinds of Bantustans with an air wing is not to fight at the same time with a hundred low-flying speed targets, maneuvering and interfering. For the same poor fellows on aircraft carriers, whom hour X will find in narrownesses, to store the batteries of the torpedo Shkval disguised in which thread of the old sunken galoshes. To salvo with a fan point-blank with 21-5 miles on the bearing of the screws. Here, just do all the ballast aviation.
  35. +1
    28 December 2013 00: 32
    Quote: SIT
    Who will be able, based on the current military doctrine of the Russian Federation, to derive the goals and objectives of our ACG?

    Currently, the Navy has the following tasks:

    deterrence from the use of military force or the threat of its use against the Russian Federation;
    protection by military methods of the sovereignty of the Russian Federation, extending beyond its land territory to inland waters and the territorial sea, sovereign rights in the exclusive economic zone and on the continental shelf, as well as freedom of the high sea;
    creation and maintenance of conditions for ensuring the safety of the RF maritime activities in the oceans;
    ensuring the naval presence of the Russian Federation in the oceans, the demonstration of the flag and military force, visits of ships and vessels of the Navy;
    ensuring participation in military, peacekeeping and humanitarian actions carried out by the world community that meet the interests of the Russian Federation.
    Depending on the state of the military-political situation in the world and its regions, the tasks of the Navy are differentiated as follows:

    In peacetime:

    strategic patrol and combat duty of strategic missile submarines (RPLSN) in the established readiness for delivering strikes at designated targets of a potential enemy;
    combat support of the Strategic Rocket Forces (ensuring the combat stability of the Strategic Rocket Forces) on routes and in areas of combat patrol;
    the search for nuclear missiles and multipurpose submarines of the likely enemy and tracking them on routes and in areas of solving problems in readiness for destruction with the outbreak of hostilities;
    observation of aircraft carrier and other naval strike groups of a potential enemy, tracking them in the areas of their combat maneuver in readiness to strike at them with the outbreak of hostilities;
    opening and obstruction of the activity of enemy reconnaissance forces and means in the seas and ocean areas adjacent to our coast, monitoring and tracking them in readiness for destruction with the outbreak of hostilities;
    ensuring the deployment of fleet forces in the threatened period;
    identification of communications and equipment of oceanic and marine theaters in strategically important areas of the oceans;
    the study of the likely areas of hostilities and the conditions for the use of various branches of the Navy, the use of weapons and technical equipment;
    intelligence over the activities of foreign ships and aircraft;
    shipping protection;
    implementation of foreign policy actions of the government;
    participation in strategic nuclear forces in strategic nuclear deterrence;
    ensuring non-nuclear deterrence from the threat or use of military force against the Russian Federation from ocean and sea directions;
    protection and protection of the state border of the Russian Federation in the underwater environment;
    protection and protection of the State border of the Russian Federation in the airspace and control of its use;
    defense of the state border of the Russian Federation on land and sea by military methods;
    Assistance to the Border Troops of the Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation in protecting the State Border, the territorial sea and the exclusive economic zone of the Russian Federation;
  36. The comment was deleted.
  37. +3
    28 December 2013 09: 55
    Put article minus.
    Analysis of the combat stability of the platforms is superficial.
    And after the episode about using the battleship to shell the Syrians, reading had to be completely stopped.
    Such theses are for children.
    1. +1
      28 December 2013 10: 29
      Good. Then we ask you to present YOUR theses. Criticizing - without specifying one's position - is always easy. So I ask you to enlighten others. I personally put the article +. O. Kaptsov, as always, clearly and in the matter stated his position. But since it is usually necessary to listen to all parties concerned, I would be glad to listen to you as well. Perhaps from you I will learn something new.
      Sincerely, Egor.
      1. +1
        29 December 2013 00: 32
        I do not want.
        Here, without me, there are enough writers.
        They will explain.
        What he called "clear and to the point" is a cormorant cormorant.
        1. 0
          29 December 2013 15: 05
          Hm. Nevertheless, I would like to hear directly your opinion. Purely out of interest and increase of horizons. I will be very grateful for your understanding.
          Sincerely, Egor.
          1. +2
            30 December 2013 15: 14
            battleship "New Jersey" - shoots at a distance of 45 km along Sevas ...
            And according to Vladik !?
            Can Norfolk be rolled out with real art fire?
            It’s impossible, because you’ll be guaranteed to be destroyed three times on the way.
            The Syrians had nothing to oppose to mattresses in response.
            That’s the whole secret of success.
            It is unlikely that the ships under discussion were created for the war with the banana republic.
            And to cite this as an argument, as a clear advantage over the airstrike - is not competent, at least.
  38. +1
    28 December 2013 17: 04
    The following is important to me. That the author briefly touched. Infrastructure and provision. You won’t put an air mat to every wall. And she needs a specific supply. And the retinue in her campaign is like that. that we don’t get one Kuzma right now. So it’s too early for us to think about the Aviation Mat. It is necessary to build ships of the near and far ocean zone. And already when we will be able to precisely allocate sufficient forces to cover the aircraft, without exposing the fleet, then we can talk about the aircraft carrier. It is true that if the Chinese finish their ballistic missiles anti-ship, they should generally consider whether it is necessary to sweep money into such a large target.
  39. +2
    28 December 2013 23: 40
    it is necessary to pay tribute to the literary abilities of the author while you read only believe The author again misleads the destroyer they are sweating how to drink give the above have already described how this will happen and the author has not challenged them. now if you take five of them to equalize the price, you get a draw. Ford just doesn't have enough planes. Only this, in theory, in practice, an aircraft carrier in a compartment with protection will chase them and will finish half-blind half-lame.
  40. +3
    29 December 2013 00: 22
    There is an incorrect propaganda that all forces must be thrown into submarines, and with the rest how it goes. That's why he and the fleet, which should complement each other. The fleet is not built in a year or two. Maybe now only one aircraft carrier and cruiser like Peter the Great is enough to amuse his vanity, but you can’t go far on one self-deception. We need ships, we need a presence in the oceans. And you need to build such ships until you have forgotten how. This is not just a ship on the water, it is a huge number of specialists, education, the transfer of experience, the development of technologies, the future, the deterrence factor and the ability to show what is what to answer and how to prevent. In the future, the role of the oceans will increase and you need to be prepared for this.

    Why were projects such as Lun, Lira / Alpha destroyed? After all, the Americans were afraid of them like a dog of thunder.
    If the ekranoplan is a specific project, then at least Lira could be reanimated, yet another "no money" is just an excuse, there is money, it's just not profitable for someone to invest it in the development of advanced technologies, it's easier to buy Mistrals ..

    Regarding the article, the author’s biased attitude spoils the whole impression.
    Maybe not the topic, but for some reason I recalled this episode of our history:
  41. +1
    29 December 2013 04: 13
    And all these super aircraft carriers are drowning 1-3 yars. Fleet fleet, but in all our wars the main blow was held by our infantry. And with what and how are our ground forces now armed? What is the connection? Here is the same. It will be too late when our soldiers will be cut out at night because we don’t even have NVD in the army in sufficient numbers. And you are dreaming about aircraft carriers. Wake up already at last.
  42. +2
    29 December 2013 10: 54
    who about what, and lousy about the bath ...
  43. 0
    29 December 2013 15: 15
    Quote: Tetros
    Wake up already at last.

    When there was a large MODERN fleet, it not only held the blow, but also hit it like that. Let us recall Ushakov. An example of a war against a qualitatively superior enemy is the Crimean War of 1853-1856. What then did you have to do with the Black Sea Fleet? And on land they got it, but in the Baltic, where there were modern floating batteries and forts, the enemy did not poke in. Leskov's left-hander just before this war tried to shout "in England they don't clean guns with bricks" ... Sorry for offtopic.
    1. 0
      29 December 2013 22: 14
      Tetros probably forgot how the naval guns were removed to protect the coastline, and how the sailors and infantry fought on land on an equal footing.
  44. +1
    3 January 2014 15: 20
    It was smooth on paper ... it’s still unknown. Both Ford and Zumwalt are unfinished ... and the catapult and radar ... and all the innovations have not yet been implemented .. or have not even been fully developed .. the ships will only be on paper soon ready..

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