Military Review

Poland chose M-346

48
Poland chose M-346

Hawk AJT aircraft (presented by BAE Systems) and US-South Korean T-50 (presented by Lockheed Martin UK) also took part in the final stage of the Polish Air Force competition. According to Polish media, both of these proposals significantly exceeded the budget limit in 1,2 billion zlotys allocated for the ZSSZ AJT program — BAE Systems’s proposal was announced in 1,754006167 billion zlotys and Lockheed Martin UK in 1,802757431 billion zł.


So far, Alenia Aermacchi has entered into contracts for the supply of X-NUMX M-48 aircraft - six (with an option for nine) for the Italian Air Force, 346 for Singapore, and 12 for Israel. Deliveries of the first production aircraft M-30 of the Italian and Singapore Air Forces were carried out in 346, however, to date, the rate of deliveries remains low - by now only three aircraft have been delivered for the Italian Air Force and four for Singapore.
Originator:
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/698425.html
48 comments
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  1. rugor
    rugor 26 December 2013 11: 51
    +14
    Apparently, to understand the article, you need to be a specialist; the NATO abbreviations are tight to me.
    1. Basileus
      Basileus 26 December 2013 11: 55
      +7
      Selected UBS. Chose) Our here still did not participate.
      1. Apollo
        Apollo 26 December 2013 12: 05
        +7
        quote-So far, Alenia Aermacchi has concluded contracts for the supply of 48 aircraft M-346 - six (with an option of nine) for the Italian Air Force, 12 for Singapore, and 30 for Israel.

        1. Patriot.ru.
          Patriot.ru. 26 December 2013 21: 26
          -1
          When there is nothing to show, they show such a bullshit.
      2. avg
        avg 26 December 2013 12: 29
        +30
        Quote: Basileus
        Our here still did not participate.

        Just here, our great participated.
        In the case of the M-346.K. Yakovleva actually acted as a technology donor. In 1993, working on the Yak 130, due to lack of funds, the Yakovlevites invited the Italian Aermacch as partners. At first they wanted to make a joint aircraft, but then, due to disagreements with the Italian partner, the joint development of the Yak-130 at the final stage ceased. Aermacchi received all the design and technical documentation for the airframe, and then released its own training aircraft - M-346. Russia, in fact, did not receive anything. The engine and all avionics had to be developed by ourselves. In addition, we are now forced to compete in the international market.
        1. Basileus
          Basileus 26 December 2013 12: 33
          +3
          Well, that I participated in the design of the aircraft. I'm talking about the participation of a Russian company.
        2. ed65b
          ed65b 26 December 2013 12: 49
          +7
          Quote: avg
          Quote: Basileus
          Our here still did not participate.

          Just here, our great participated.
          In the case of the M-346.K. Yakovleva actually acted as a technology donor. In 1993, working on the Yak 130, due to lack of funds, the Yakovlevites invited the Italian Aermacch as partners. At first they wanted to make a joint aircraft, but then, due to disagreements with the Italian partner, the joint development of the Yak-130 at the final stage ceased. Aermacchi received all the design and technical documentation for the airframe, and then released its own training aircraft - M-346. Russia, in fact, did not receive anything. The engine and all avionics had to be developed by ourselves. In addition, we are now forced to compete in the international market.

          And we are talking about the Chinese all the time laughing I do not need to be deceived, I myself am glad to be deceived. Well done. Ugh .....
        3. cdrt
          cdrt 26 December 2013 13: 21
          +5
          Quote: avg
          Russia, in fact, received nothing


          But was there no Italian funding in the most difficult years?
          1. avg
            avg 26 December 2013 15: 40
            +5
            Quote: cdrt
            But was there no Italian funding in the most difficult years?

            What kind of funding, what are you talking about. It looks more like a "gop-stop" in the driveway. What you had to pay millions for was bought for thousands, instead of billions, hundreds of thousands were paid. And so it was not only with the Yak 130, but also with the Yak 141, Tu 144, An 70 ... then with all the stops.
        4. va3610
          va3610 26 December 2013 16: 19
          +6
          And someone built a summer house for himself somewhere on the sidelines.
        5. 77bob1973
          77bob1973 26 December 2013 18: 55
          +4
          Enough to regret, the main thing is that the Yak-130 is released more than 100, and the M-346 is still an account for units.
        6. bif
          bif 27 December 2013 01: 27
          +2
          Quote: avg
          Our here still did not participate.

          So the point is, the tender is in Poland, they will rather fly on a broomstick than they will buy something from the Russians.
          In the case of the M-346. Yakovlev Design Bureau actually acted as a technology donor
          It was rather a symbiosis, do not forget, it was 1993 year !!! Not to fat, to be alive.
      3. EvilLion
        EvilLion 26 December 2013 19: 17
        0
        On bmpd they say that in the early stages our MiG-ATs were even offered.
      4. Geisenberg
        Geisenberg 26 December 2013 20: 12
        +5
        Quote: Basileus
        Selected UBS. Chose) Our here still did not participate.


        Even if they participated vseravno would lose ... it's the Poles, they can only fart in our direction ...
    2. f4b2
      f4b2 26 December 2013 12: 12
      +4
      No no need.

      To understand the essence of the problem, just read the story on the Internet about the creation of the UTS Yak-130 aircraft.
      and at first glance (and at the second too) the planes look like brothers.

      In general, another attempt by Yakovlev’s bending OKB to somehow resolve the issue of its existence during the post-Soviet liberalist transformations.
      With predictable results in advance.
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 26 December 2013 19: 19
        0
        But nevertheless, they survived, and on MS-21 they got their right to apply the mark as they release it.
    3. VADEL
      VADEL 26 December 2013 12: 50
      +3
      "It's elementary rugor- these are dancing men (from bezishodnost). laughing
    4. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 26 December 2013 17: 41
      -1
      Quote: rugor
      NATO abbreviations are tight.

      Where did you find them? request
  2. Chicot 1
    Chicot 1 26 December 2013 12: 11
    +9
    M-346 is essentially the twin brother of our Yak-130 ... But national pride apparently prevented the Yak-130 from entering the competition. But it is understandable - they are Poles after all ...
    Although at one time, the NDP produced its own training aircraft. But the times of socialism have sunk into oblivion, and with them the Polish aircraft industry ... And it seems that helicopter building still seems to be moving there, giving out a tuned Soviet-made Mi-2 to the mountain, but under the original Polish name ... Only interesting, but for a long time Is he left? .. After all, Italians (and not only Italians) also produce helicopters. And I must say very good helicopters ...

    Times of CMEA and OVD. Polish trainer aircraft PZL TS-11 Iskra. Now, in the days of the EU and NATO, the aircraft are imported ...
    1. Akim
      Akim 26 December 2013 13: 48
      +3
      Quote: Chicot 1
      But national pride apparently prevented the Yak-130 from entering the competition. But it is understandable - they are Poles after all ..

      Russia did not submit an application for participation in the tender.
      1. Chicot 1
        Chicot 1 27 December 2013 01: 19
        +1
        Quote: Akim
        Russia did not apply for tender

        Ay-yai-yay ... What a pity ... laughing
      2. Semen Semyonitch
        Semen Semyonitch 27 December 2013 14: 09
        0
        There is a distinction between the supply chain 346 and Yak
      3. The comment was deleted.
  3. major071
    major071 26 December 2013 12: 16
    +9
    Have less to drink! wassat Something all mixed up in my head: Poland chose and chose something, but they delivered 3 pieces to Italy and 4 to Singapore, and when to Poland and what will they put? And in general, why supply something there? drinks The article is certainly a plus! drinks
    1. VADEL
      VADEL 26 December 2013 13: 01
      -1
      NO. We must also drink and buy one and a half V-52 from SuShiAu. smile drinks
      1. VADEL
        VADEL 26 December 2013 14: 15
        +1
        "-"? - then you need another one and a half. Will you master a quarter? smile drinks
  4. Roman 1977
    Roman 1977 26 December 2013 12: 17
    +9
    The problem of Italians in the American competition and American components. If you choose, they will be in chocolate. If not (most likely not), then their car will die quietly and slowly. And the Yak-130 certainly has a great future, its potential did not even begin to reveal. There will be new engines and a new avionics and a partner Yak-152. But at the moment, the entire project is simply supporting the military-industrial complex and urgent measures to support the flight skills of young pilots. The economy of the complex is crap. It will develop in parallel with the T-50. Everything has its time. Choosing the M-346, the Poles abandoned the development of their TCB EM-10 Bielik. Here it is, the fate of the European colony.

    Alenia Aermacchi M-346 Master

    failed Polish TCB EM-10 Bielik
    1. Akim
      Akim 26 December 2013 13: 51
      +1
      Quote: Novel 1977
      . Choosing the M-346, the Poles abandoned the development of their TCB EM-10 Bielik

      The Poles abandoned him a long time ago. A year ago, they still wanted to make a plane that would replace the Su-22, and this year decided to replace them with shock drones.
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 26 December 2013 16: 19
        +5
        Quote: Akim
        A year ago, they still wanted to make a plane that would replace the Su-22, and this year decided to replace them with shock drones.


        And do not make them but stupidly buy.
        1. Akim
          Akim 26 December 2013 17: 16
          +1
          Quote: Vadivak
          And do not make them but stupidly buy.

          So cheaper.
          1. 31231
            31231 26 December 2013 20: 26
            0
            In the same way, it would be cheaper for Ukraine in the EU to buy foreign weapons than to produce its own.
            It seems that fresh "Gay Europeans" are being sterilized.
            1. Akim
              Akim 26 December 2013 21: 39
              +1
              Quote: 31231
              In the same way, it would be cheaper for Ukraine in the EU to buy foreign weapons than to produce its own.

              Would you turn logic on before you run into? Yes, it’s cheaper to buy or rent a grippen than to develop your own fighter. It takes a series to pay off. What is really cheaper to produce at home, Ukraine does not refuse that idea (Corvette, missile and river boats, anti-ship missiles, helicopter, grenade launchers, anti-tank systems, etc.).
              1. Semen Semyonitch
                Semen Semyonitch 27 December 2013 14: 05
                0
                Maybe cheaper with us, huh? As Belarusians, as theirs drinks
                1. Akim
                  Akim 28 December 2013 08: 10
                  -1
                  Quote: Semyon Semyonich
                  Maybe cheaper with us, huh?

                  Belarus is a member of a military bloc. Ukraine occupies a non-aligned position. It so happened that half of the country gravitates toward military cooperation with Russia, less. but also a significant half - to NATO.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. Corsair
                    Corsair 31 December 2013 11: 35
                    +2
                    Quote: Akim
                    Belarus is a member of a military bloc. Ukraine occupies a non-aligned position. It so happened that half of the country gravitates toward military cooperation with Russia, less. but also a significant half - to NATO.

                    So break the situation, join the Ukrainian "bayonet" to the Russian "Kalash" ...
              2. The comment was deleted.
  5. Sultan
    Sultan 26 December 2013 12: 20
    +4
    Yeah, I already thought it was our Yak-130 ... Already painfully similar ...
  6. andrei332809
    andrei332809 26 December 2013 12: 32
    +7
    Well, the Psheks do not want to abandon the dream of the Commonwealth from Mozh to Mozh. and so yes they went into the loop
    1. HAUSER
      HAUSER 26 December 2013 15: 18
      +9
      The Pole is not a nationality; the Pole is a diagnosis.
    2. major071
      major071 26 December 2013 17: 53
      +5
      andrei332809
      Well, the Psheks do not want to abandon the dream of the Commonwealth from Mozh to Mozh. and so yes they went into the loop

      hi I would write differently - from rzhachki ...
      1. andrei332809
        andrei332809 26 December 2013 18: 40
        0
        Quote: major071
        I would write differently - from rzhachki.

        everyone "creates" to the extent of their depravity tongue
  7. 1c-inform-city
    1c-inform-city 26 December 2013 12: 42
    +5
    In my opinion, the M-346 is the same Yak-130 only without the possibility of using weapons. The Poles in their time, albeit more expensive, but not with the Russians. I remember there were articles by polymer workers, they say Italy will now produce these aircraft, and we will envy them because we ourselves are not capable. Well, where are the sons of Rome now? They have three, and the Unas is probably already under 60, 48 only for our air forces.
  8. mountain
    mountain 26 December 2013 13: 12
    +7
    I read the article and realized that some sold, others bought. But then I read the comments and I don’t understand what. Cool plot twisted, but informative.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  9. Committee
    Committee 26 December 2013 14: 25
    +6
    Aeromacaca is a rather successful plane, our MiGs, etc., in principle, did not participate, so it’s not worth it to be upset. In addition, Polish Russophobia sometimes rolls over. But what’s interesting is that on some of our TCBs (on Yashki in my opinion) you can simulate any (!) Airplane in the world, Aeromacaca cannot do this, although it produces 3 models.
  10. 1c-inform-city
    1c-inform-city 26 December 2013 14: 40
    +4
    The cost of the m346 is about 30 million yak130 in the region of 15 million the main difference is the engines. The flight parameters are almost the same since the glider, if any, is slightly different. Oh yes, the Italians abandoned the possibility of armament.
    1. samoletil18
      samoletil18 26 December 2013 20: 48
      +1
      Quote: 1c-inform-city
      The cost of the m346 is about 30 million yak130 in the region of 15 million the main difference is the engines. The flight parameters are almost the same since the glider, if any, is slightly different. Oh yes, the Italians abandoned the possibility of armament.

      It is necessary for Russia to participate in all Polish tenders. It’s like, everyone will start buying at a double price, and the ruin will befall this NATO member. But at the same time, the EU has problems. Glory to Polish nationalism! fellow wassat
  11. The comment was deleted.
  12. VADEL
    VADEL 26 December 2013 15: 33
    +1
    Quote: major071
    Have less to drink! Something all mixed up in my head: Poland chose and chose something, but they delivered 3 pieces to Italy and 4 to Singapore, and when to Poland and what will they put? And in general, why supply something there? The article is certainly a plus!

    Sir! First of all, deal with your thoughts, secondly with smiles, thirdly, think for yourself. With good wishes for you for the New Year, and not grief for the sake of the benefits for the servant of God ...
  13. RBLip
    RBLip 26 December 2013 15: 38
    +2
    Yes, and FSU. let’s get more iron. heels are vigorous loaves and from Poland some unpleasant memories.
  14. edeligor
    edeligor 26 December 2013 15: 50
    +2
    In fact, it’s funny, without participating in the creation of the aircraft, the Italians got everything they wanted. First of all - a ready-made glider, which saved hundreds of millions, if not billions, and two decades of work. Plus a complete test program. As a result, the plane is a direct competitor to Yak-130, where are our lawyers?
  15. Leshka
    Leshka 26 December 2013 16: 33
    0
    very similar to yak-130! It’s interesting that they were ripped off from us or they are ours
  16. The comment was deleted.
  17. Arh
    Arh 26 December 2013 17: 13
    +1
    [media = http: // http: //youtu.be/01exd_mZ4fc]
    It makes no difference to me that Poland and anyone else, we have SU-35 good
  18. Semen Semyonitch
    Semen Semyonitch 26 December 2013 17: 30
    +1
    Yeah ... Thanks to the venality of Chemezov and Fedorov, who sold an almost finished plane for nothing (one to Italians, the other to China), we are suffering enormous losses on the international market. And the Chinese counterpart is even better than ours thanks to more powerful Ukrainian engines. At one time, they raised the Korean auto industry, now almost for nothing have created a Chinese defense industry. Three hooray, and bonnets in the air ...
    1. Kir
      Kir 26 December 2013 17: 51
      +2
      I agree with you. here’s just one thing But, the fact that China inspires respect for bending its own line, but with regards to it for free there are strong doubts, at least there was some kind of bargaining, but what we bargained for, we see only what is available as it is customary to say to the general public . And with regards to the agreement with Italy, because we don’t know the same thing, including to whom and how much, and most importantly, what happened?
      With regards to Ukraine, well, there’s politics in general, and in the USSR we have the same number of enterprises and institutes from Russia in the Union Republics that we have scattered, it’s like we should have learned with whom to make friends. and with whom in general not only to be friends, but also to contact would not be worth it!
    2. zennon
      zennon 26 December 2013 19: 06
      +5
      Quote: Semen Semenych
      almost for nothing created a Chinese defense industry. Three hooray, and bonnets in the air ...

      Do you remember the situation in our military-industrial complex from 91 to 01 years? Chinov’s orders practically saved the little that was not bent due to our effective managers. The rank in the early 80s was in a mountain-a-ah-worse situation than we. A billion hoes and nothing else. Does the Ride like it wants on our developments? That's it. Now imagine that we switched places. Would we act differently? No! The forum would be crammed with health resorts to our smart government for nothing buying up innovative developments suckers. They just behave correctly. Look how we and they spent the last 30 years and you will understand everything. We ourselves are to blame for our troubles. We must understand this. First, a hunchback remodeling (not a typo), then a drunk as a carpet clown, and people seem to have nothing to do with it.WE deserve them, and this is an okay time. Want to see the perpetrators, look in the mirror. I sincerely hope that everything that does not kill makes us stronger. Let the incident serve us all a good lesson, if we cost something, and if it doesn’t we are worth nothing, that’s how we need it ...
      1. Kir
        Kir 26 December 2013 19: 47
        +2
        And let's also remember how China with "its" rabble - embezzlers and so on, and how we have like a spell for 37 years, and can we start the car again?, But how to steal and lobby someone else's so who is straight out of his skin, and how to answer then all are straight invalids and prisoners of conscience, well, well ..... And now I am sure to announce now such as yapping from everywhere and sabotage will begin.
        1. zennon
          zennon 26 December 2013 20: 44
          0
          Quote: Kir
          And then how to steal and lobby someone else’s, so someone who’s climbing straight out of their skin, and how to respond, everyone’s directly disabled and prisoners of conscience, well, well ..... And now I'm sure to announce something like yapping and sabotage from everywhere.

          This is not an integral part of the system that was built after the collapse of socialism. Of course, under the guise of Dr.E.R.M.O.K.R.A.T.I.A. and a mechanism was created to evade responsibility for robbery and the collapse of the wealth of the country. Do you remember, there are already more than a dozen amnesties for some 20 years! Obviously, those in power amnesty themselves and their vassals like Serdyukov. Who will restore the 37th year for you?
      2. edeligor
        edeligor 26 December 2013 20: 04
        +1
        good good good
        Our children and grandchildren will count and present bills, I believe in it!
      3. Semen Semyonitch
        Semen Semyonitch 26 December 2013 22: 12
        -1
        You look in the mirror, I did not look for the guilty. I understand that you answered me, like so, to join the conversation? I know very well that time, and the fact that we didn’t deserve such "rulers" is 100%. I, in fact, talked about the discharge of the finished Yak-130 project to the Chinese. You make excuses as if you got something from This deal will go badly for us (I mean providing the Chinese with technology).
        1. zennon
          zennon 26 December 2013 22: 57
          0
          Quote: Semen Semenych
          You look in the mirror, I did not look for the guilty. I understand that you answered me, like so, to enter into a conversation?

          No, I didn’t want to enter into a conversation. This is so, thinking out loud, that is, to the site. And I’m not making excuses. There’s nothing. I’m trying to draw conclusions from what happened.
          This will all come sideways to us (I mean providing the Chinese with technology).

          What do you want? Like the French: “When need knocks at the door, you have to sell the family silver.” It’s strange that you don’t understand this, knowing full well that time. weapons and technologies for its production? Nothing ...
          We are responsible for those who govern us. Each nation has the government that it deserves. I understand that, you are not.
          1. Semen Semyonitch
            Semen Semyonitch 27 December 2013 03: 33
            0
            I do not dispute that the sale of weapons and non-critical technologies was necessary for the survival of the military-industrial complex, but in what barbarous way was this done? Documents were taken from the secure enterprise by trucks. Are you for such a survival ???
            1. zennon
              zennon 27 December 2013 10: 15
              0
              You are looking for enemies, and I am the truth. You are very simple. Black and white. For you there is good and bad. Just make me guilty, for example. Make me make excuses. It will not work. The world is much more complicated than you imagine.
              Documentation was taken out from a sensitive enterprise by truck.

              And who told you that there will be a civilized exchange in the country without laws, without power, but with corrupt officials at every step? We have gone through a terrible period. It’s important to learn a lesson!
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. Semen Semyonitch
                Semen Semyonitch 27 December 2013 14: 02
                -1
                Did you have to play cards with a sharpie? I think you will understand ...
              4. The comment was deleted.
          2. The comment was deleted.
      4. The comment was deleted.
  19. Altona
    Altona 26 December 2013 17: 56
    +1
    Quote: avg
    Just here, our great participated.
    In the case of the M-346.K. Yakovleva actually acted as a technology donor. In 1993, working on the Yak 130, due to lack of funds, the Yakovlevites invited the Italian Aermacch as partners. At first they wanted to make a joint aircraft, but then, due to disagreements with the Italian partner, the joint development of the Yak-130 at the final stage ceased. Aermacchi received all the design and technical documentation for the airframe, and then released its own training aircraft - M-346.

    -----------------------------------
    I also wanted to note this nuance ... By the way, about the Poles and Italians ... Poles see all Italian people in memory of Monte Cassino ... Now they’re apparently nostalgic ... soldier
  20. Konsmo
    Konsmo 26 December 2013 17: 57
    +5
    I read the statements of Yak Ovlev specialists. They were pleased with the cooperation with the Italians. Pasta bakshish. then paid. It helped to survive.
    I remember the beginning of 90. They twisted their heads around how to earn money for food in the next month.
    The plants got up and what you knew how to ... no one needs. crying
    1. Semen Semyonitch
      Semen Semyonitch 26 December 2013 18: 05
      +1
      Why shouldn't they be happy? In those hungry times, they were thrown a piece of 77 million not very green (for which they sold the finished plane to pasta), and they are covered in chocolate. And the hidden part of the "iceberg" settled in the pockets of traitors to the nouveau riche a la Chemezov Fedorov Frolov and others like them ...
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. zennon
      zennon 26 December 2013 19: 11
      0
      Absolutely sure Konsmo! That's it. You +. hi
  21. baku1999
    baku1999 26 December 2013 18: 56
    0
    -------------))))))))))))))))))
  22. alone
    alone 26 December 2013 22: 26
    +2
    An interesting case. Someone said that the Poles in Germany clean their toilets because they do not have work. But here the leopards buy articles, wolverines, and now also the M-346 UBS. And how did they succeed if economically they kirdyk, as some have claimed?
  23. Avdy
    Avdy 27 December 2013 00: 16
    0
    Quote: Chicot 1
    national pride apparently prevented the Yak-130 Poles from competing.

    Yes, the Poles will rather buy the old L-39 from some Honduras and at exorbitant prices, than with us the new Yak-130 laughing
  24. Bezyana God
    Bezyana God 27 December 2013 00: 28
    0
    ____ Actually, the design is quite recognizable! These characteristic "vortex generators" - influxes in front of the wings, in general, the airframe contours are more similar to SU and MiGs (only slightly more compact and with a curvy tail) than any rafals, gripenes and similar typhoons! ... The Italians just screwed us, terminating the contract after receiving such a miracle ...
  25. Kir
    Kir 27 December 2013 05: 18
    0
    But it’s interesting what kind of fuel the cars will fly on, I just remembered the program about our Assy from Kubinka, and so when they were speaking in the United States, one of the cars almost had a catastrophe, the engine died out, though then it worked again, it was all about Amer fuel, it is not suitable for ours, so not everything is so simple.
  26. Nitarius
    Nitarius 27 December 2013 06: 31
    0
    Quote: avg
    Quote: Basileus
    Our here still did not participate.

    Just here, our great participated.
    In the case of the M-346.K. Yakovleva actually acted as a technology donor. In 1993, working on the Yak 130, due to lack of funds, the Yakovlevites invited the Italian Aermacch as partners. At first they wanted to make a joint aircraft, but then, due to disagreements with the Italian partner, the joint development of the Yak-130 at the final stage ceased. Aermacchi received all the design and technical documentation for the airframe, and then released its own training aircraft - M-346. Russia, in fact, did not receive anything. The engine and all avionics had to be developed by ourselves. In addition, we are now forced to compete in the international market.


    of everything above the SPEAKED! HOW THE Europeans THIEF WERE ORDER AND STAY!
    In the present and in the past, INDUSTRIAL THEFT HAS ALREADY BEEN CONSIDERED THAN EVEN -BEATABLE
  27. alexxxxx
    alexxxxx 27 December 2013 06: 32
    0
    Was there a tender?
    1. Akim
      Akim 27 December 2013 08: 03
      0
      Quote: alexxxxx
      Was there a tender?

      Yes. Czech, English, Korean, Italian UBS.