Military Review

NATO on the verge of collapse?

114
The combat power of the North Atlantic bloc, so as not to overthrow the NATO phyla, is increasingly becoming decorative. And besides, the inside of the “allies” began such a discord that it is no longer possible to hide him behind the straining smiles of officials and the streamlined wording of press releases. In Germany, the voices of those who demand the country's withdrawal from the military alliance are openly distributed. The Germans are not at all smiling to pay with their lives to protect American interests in the hot spots of the planet.




But the Europeans, in truth, are at a dead end: they cannot leave NATO, because the national armies of any particular Western European country (except perhaps for Switzerland and Finland, but they are not members of the alliance) turned into a parade guard, hence , the exit from under the umbrella of America entails an increase in military spending, which the current economic crisis does not have. And to remain in NATO means to make your soldiers "minced for a meat grinder" in the interests of Uncle Sam. Therefore, Europeans choose not security, but the illusion of security. Comes to jokes. The Swedish prosecutor’s office recently took the commander-in-chief of the armed forces of this Scandinavian country, Sverker Joranson, who said that in the event of Russian aggression, the Swedes could hold out no more than a week. Do you think the prosecutors began to press the official for spoiling the relations of a neutral state with the Russian Federation? With her, by the way, Sweden doesn’t even have a common border, and therefore aggression itself is possible only “through the corpse” of Finland. No, the commander in chief tried to blame for the disclosure of military secrets. He, you see, revealed the secret of Polichinel about the inability of the 50-thousandth "professional" (that is, contract) Swedish army to protect the country in the event of a hypothetical invasion. Why did he assign Russians to the role of aggressor? Well, probably, Poltava hid him. Joranson is in favor of joining NATO, which, in his opinion, will increase the country's defense capability without additional financial costs. But the paradox is that joining NATO will only weaken the national armed forces, and only the US will benefit from this, and no one else. Yes, and the cost of "defense" will not be less, because the Swedes will now have to pay their share (and not only money, but also blood) in the next African or Asian slaughter provoked by Washington. One tiny Denmark was forced to spend $ 26,3 billion to finance its military contingent in Afghanistan !!!

The longest military conflict to date has been in Afghanistan, which has highlighted in all its glory:
- the inability of computerized armies to fight with savages-kozopasami;
- blatant lack of professionalism of the commanding staff, especially the senior;
- extremely low moral elasticity of the interventionists ... oh, sorry, peacekeepers;
- the blatant vileness of the American military in relation to their “allies” in NATO, which they use without any pity as cannon fodder, more precisely, as the Yankees themselves say, meat for the grinder - meat for the meat grinder.

The "allies," of course, from the manifestations of such a "militant fraternity" have cooled sharply towards the overseas "partner," and this cooling has its political consequences. Let's remember why the American invasion of Syria did not take place? No, not at all because Putin was against (how could he even hypothetically interfere?), But because Washington did not find those who want to fight for democracy in Europe in the Middle East. As a result, the Europeans also refused the US moral support, which automatically made the Americans aggressors. So the Kremlin did not prevent the invasion of Syria, it only helped Washington to save face, escape from shame when the winner of the Nobel Peace Prize Obama shook the East with his fist, and not only was nobody afraid of him, but Assad also weighed up a savory slap in the face of the cavalry, knocking the American F22 and four Tomahawk missiles. Yes, the sovereign dictator is not Milosevic's kisky for you.

But, actually, I did not mean to talk about big politics. A very interesting article Gunmeat came to me on the mailing list from the Stringer Bureau of International Investigations. Here truly sensational facts are made public, therefore, I will not retell, read for yourself. I will give just a few savory quotes (in italics) and add my 5 cents to the topic. So, talking about the fact that the Pindos in Afghanistan are hiding behind their European allies and other "peacekeepers", like a human shield.

“In 2001, the invasion of Afghanistan began in two columns. The first was a coalition of those who wanted to fight and consisted of Americans, British, Canadians, and several other countries seeking to curry favor with their big brother. And the second column, which received the UN mandate, entered contingents of states not ready to participate in active hostilities and shed the blood of their soldiers in the name of a dubious war against elusive terrorism. Nevertheless, Washington immediately began to demand from the member countries of ISAF “expansion of the mandate”, that is, minute transfer "peacekeepers" to be used in offensive operations carried out within the framework of operation "Enduring Freedom".

Yes, if someone does not know, then the military of even exotic countries such as New Zealand and Mongolia are included in the ISAF (International Security Assistance Force). Even Ukraine, as a sign of adherence to “democratic values”, sent a force of 25 people to Afghanistan in Afghanistan. For comparison: democratized Estonia, as a member of NATO, has to maintain a contingent of up to 300 troops in Afghanistan.

“As for joint operations, this was the case,” confesses Daniel Lücking, a senior lieutenant who took part in the German deployment. “Together with the Afghan army, we drove a group of militants to a remote place or village, and the Americans always have the right to deliver the final blow left to themselves "...

... Those are sending air support - attack aircraft, helicopters or drones - already directly to strike the target. And then, as in a children's yard game: who did not hide, I am not guilty. “The motto of the American operation:“ Eyes wide shut, ”German magazine Der Spiegel states with bitterness. That is why cases of the so-called“ friendly fire ”in Afghanistan occur more often than in the Iraq war ...

... Salon magazine quotes the squadron commander of naval assault helicopters, the American lieutenant colonel Jim Braden: "Many air force pilots with whom I worked seem to be just looking for an excuse to pull the trigger, without worrying where their comrades are at the bottom arms. Their position is: "Just give us the GPS coordinates and we will do our job."
As a result of cases when coalition allies came under American shelling, there are dozens and even hundreds. "

According to official data, up to a quarter of casualties in Iraq fell on "friendly fire." Given the maximum saturation of invaders sredsvami communication and electronic devices control the battle, this is just a fantastic figure. And this is a characteristic of the flagrant lack of professionalism of officers who are unable to organize the elementary interaction of the types of troops on the battlefield.

The Yankees also tried to entrust the dirty work to others: "At the request of the CIA office, the Bundeswehr military personnel participated in operations in violation of the German mandate back in the 2002 year," said former non-commissioned officer of the Airborne Forces, Achim Volgetan. According to him, the German soldiers from the international brigade of the ISAF were repeatedly sent to "delicate operations" far beyond the limits of their zone of responsibility, determined by a Bundestag decree. Volgetan himself participated "in at least ten such operations." Orders to attack and retreat were not formalized in any way, while they were given by the CIA ...

... Over time, almost all participating countries were forced to provide people to participate in American special operations. “The secret parts are the thousands of innocent civilian casualties,” says the famous German politician Oscar Lafontaine. ”

The authors of the investigation state: “It’s difficult to name the exact number of losses of the antiterrorist coalition and the ISAF due to the lack of an authoritative independent source of information. Washington sometimes turns out its own official statistics as it is required at a particular moment. But there is no doubt about the relative number of losses among the countries that have active in the Afghan war, the United States is at the very bottom of the list

NATO on the verge of collapse?


"In Europe, the statistics on injuries are underreported, in order not to disturb the society, already dissatisfied with the unpopular war. At the same time, special services created in the Pentagon to fight corruption in Iraq and Afghanistan revealed the existence of fraudulent schemes designed to inflate the number of injured Americans, to get a "tip" for injury for the subsequent "cut" between the unclean commanders ... ".



“Americans treat their allies extremely arrogantly. For example, Germans are called Nazis behind the eyes, they can say about Danes or Latvians who they say is from a country” the size of a postage stamp, ”admits a Scandinavian mission member in a private conversation. - In addition, the humanitarian ideas of Europeans meet their complete contempt. We are considered soft, weak, or "women" for initiatives that help, for example, make life easier for Afghan women. According to the Americans, it is necessary to act not with educational programs, but with murders and sweeps "...

... Swedish military journalist Fridolin Gustav describes his impressions of his American allies: “They were distinguished by their blatant lack of principle. They could, for example, negotiate with a well-known fighter on surrender and then shoot him. They took villages by storm and dragged the corpses of executed militants through the streets in order to show what happens to those who oppose the new authorities".

But the very monstrous attitude of pi-ndos to Afghan “comrades-in-arms”: "They rush into the thick of it, they shut up the most difficult areas. Their losses go to tens of thousands, which for some reason are being taken out of the general list. The Pentagon published a standard semi-annual (1 from April to 30 of September 2013) reports on the situation in Afghanistan The losses of the Afghan army and police increased by 79% over the reporting period! US Army lieutenant-general Mark Milli, the current head of the ISAF Joint Command, believes that the total losses of the personnel of the Afghan forces are approaching yu, which we have seen in Vietnam. "

By the way, this is the fundamental difference between the Soviet army and the ISAF (read by the Americans, since three quarters of the fighting forces in the region belong to them). Our military in Afghanistan trusted "green", as the army of the Kabul regime was called, only auxiliary functions. The 40 Army conducted military operations on its own, and, of course, suffered losses. Liberatians slobberingly admire the military skills of the Pindos - they say, they suffer losses five times smaller than "shuravi" because the respect for human life is in their blood. And our generals, they say, treated the soldiers as consumables - the women still give birth.

These wretched USA-droch.eri do not take into account, firstly, that the Soviet Army successfully carried out all the assigned combat missions. The withdrawal from Afghanistan was a political decision, it was not the result of defeat in the war. The American war on terrorism ends with the fact that the “terrorists” drove the fighters to bases, from where they try not to put out their nose unnecessarily, and at night the “peacekeepers” are not able to control anything except the perimeter of their military towns. Secondly, Americans have been honored to pay the honor of paying with blood for democracy to the “green” ones, who suffer losses of the “Vietnamese level”.

“Most international observers believe that the American strategy of the war in Afghanistan has failed,” states Fridolin Gustav. “Residential buildings were bombed, one bloodbath was followed by another, and civilians were chasing asymmetrical enemies, bin Laden and al-Qaeda. Peaceful people were crippled. Every day Such a mob of Afghans ready to surrender to the Taliban forces is growing: they now have what to avenge, and according to the Islamist interpretation, it’s not just the US that is to blame, but the whole Western world. So the invasion of Afga Istan can be our biggest mistake. "

“This is a catastrophe. I hope that Afghanistan will be a lesson and we will no longer take part in the active phase of NATO’s military operations outside Europe,” says a Danish journalist who passed through Iraq and Afghanistan. Similar sentiments are popular in other European countries. From the universal savior and defender of the Second World War, the USA turned into a brutal occupier, and the first truly major joint operation by NATO resulted in a series of unmotivated losses caused, among other things, by inadequate actions of the American army ... "

Thus, to characterize the outcome of the 13-year-old "crusade" to Afghanistan, which according to the plan should be completed in 2014, in one word: DEFEAT. The only thing that got a “free world” as a result of this war was the traffic of Afghan heroin that grew dozens of times.

By the way, there is a version that the insignificant losses of Americans in Afghanistan (as well as in Iraq) are explained not only by their desire to hide behind others' backs, but also by the art of statistics, which, as we know, is one of the forms of lies. The concept of "American Army" today is a lie, because more than half of the US troops in hot spots are not made up of US citizens, but of foreigners who want to get a green card for military service. Their bodies are not sent to the States in stars and striped coffins, orchestras do not play over their graves and do not salute the marines, they often do not fall into the loss statistics at all, because for American society they are nobody, just like the Afghan military and police officers whose losses in the West are of no interest to anyone (there is simply no information about them). Finally, the statistics of American casualties do not include killed and wounded employees of private military companies (PMCs), who receive contracts to promote democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan. And the scale of presence of PMCs is truly enormous: if the ISAF military contingent numbers about 100 thousand people, then the contract soldiers of PMCs and PSCs make up a horde of 110 thousand people !!! Since companies are private, the level of losses in them is a commercial secret. Experts believe that the generally accepted 1200 estimate of mercenaries killed in Afghanistan is underestimated by several times.

Despite the fact that the headquarters of the majority of PMCs are located in the US or the UK, they are gaining fighters all over the world. It is believed that as part of private military firms in Afghanistan, at least 15% of the staff are from the countries of the former USSR. By the way, the scale of participation in the combat operations of mercenaries - there is another evidence that NATO is sour, the traditional armed forces of Western countries are no longer able to independently perform the functions assigned to them. However, private armies also did not gain fame on the battlefield, because their goal is profit, not victory.
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114 comments
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  1. Deniska999
    Deniska999 26 December 2013 08: 07
    +16
    If it falls apart - well, it does not fall apart now - it will fall apart later.
    1. Romn
      Romn 26 December 2013 08: 28
      +23
      The collapse needs to be helped in every way, why our channels throughout Europe do not shout about injustice, about the unequal rights in the bloc, we need to set them against each other, especially in countries where the number of victims is greatest, let them bite! Once there is an information war, it is time to go on the offensive.
      divide et impera! Divide and rule...
      1. My address
        My address 26 December 2013 09: 07
        +25
        I have the impression that Lavrov from the Foreign Ministry is capable of this, but he is being pulled back. And our media in general are often unclear for which team they play. An old question, for example, in the ideological orientation of Echo and MK, which are part of the Gazprom media holding. Well, where else on the money of the country allow you to vilify the country!
        1. Very old
          Very old 26 December 2013 09: 26
          +6
          In Russia, in the Russian Federation

          The bacillus of tolerance seems to have crept into our lives
          1. sledgehammer102
            sledgehammer102 26 December 2013 12: 10
            +7
            Quote: Very old
            And our media in general often do not understand which team they play for.

            If you look at the English-language Russia Today, everything falls into place, since their reports beat the ratings of all other "independent Western media", as they tell the truth and give facts.
            Coverage of the war in Afghanistan, Syria, Libya. Assange, Snowden and more. So what, and we can brag of our mouthpiece on the territory of the enemy.

            By the way, I post the photos of the next independent source Euronews about the death of Kalashnikov, the most offensive is that they do not filter at all that they admit to publication about Russia in an English-language resource.
            1. My address
              My address 26 December 2013 16: 18
              +6
              Paul!

              One "Russia today" is extremely small. Look at the comments of site visitors on the topic of media:
              1. Complete perplexity from the deaf defense negative .
              2. Complete indignation at the permissiveness of the ideological sabotage of "Echo", "TNT", "MK". Even NTV, as it comes to Victory Day, strives to present dirty tricks and is not afraid! They are fighting with us at our expense am !
              3. A complete misunderstanding of inertia on the external front. It is only worth what to get from the West, as our computer scientists stop. And who is stopping the creation of a couple of private, namely private, media outlets with interesting, not necessarily blissful, materials about Russia. And in between honestly tell the opinion of normal, ordinary Russian-Tatars-Udmurts about gays, Syria, a change minus confidence in Western values? Yes, and talk about in the West that they are silent. Yes, with smart work, they will howl angry ! They are used to fighting as they like, but so that they can only be gentlemanly with them.

              Only the defending side always loses.
              I don’t think that I’m so smart, but in the Kremlin there are completely id-d-d-diots. Everyone there understands.
              But why not?
              The question is, of course, interesting.
              1. does it
                does it 26 December 2013 20: 55
                +2
                Quote: My address
                Complete indignation at the permissiveness of the ideological sabotage of "Echo", "TNT", "MK". Even NTV, as it comes to Victory Day, strives to present dirty tricks and is not afraid! They are fighting with us at our expense!

                You forgot to mention the state channels, I’m silent about Discovery because it is American.
              2. alexdol
                alexdol 26 December 2013 21: 15
                +6
                My address is (1) SU "I do not think that I am so smart, but in the Kremlin there are all id-d-d-dyots. Everyone there understands. But why not? The question is, of course, interesting.
                ---------------------------------------------------------------
                That's why they don't do anything, because the question is INTERESTING! But seriously, take a good look at who is in power and in all these "ECHOs" and so on? When you see that all are the same faces, then you will understand everything ...
                For example, today in Ukraine, who is in charge of the "Maidan"? The year 1917 is just repeating itself, all the same Gevolutsioners, and in the power of the local people are not Slavic at all. I think if we analyze the composition of the Russian Duma, the result will be similar to the Verkhovna Rada in Ukraine! There are more than 50 percent Jews or half-breeds, and according to the calculations of our Kharkov Jew Eduard Khodos, there can be only one and a half people there, if we take from their total number! So much for democracy in action! As we used to say: if only a person was good! I agree, but besides this, the representation of the number of each nationality must be observed here! Otherwise, we get what we have now ...
                1. 222222
                  222222 26 December 2013 22: 04
                  +3
                  alexdol (1) UA Today, 21:15
                  December 28, 0% of Russians in the Kremlin Palace will celebrate Hanukkah’s national holiday.
                  Hanukkah is a celebration of candles that are lit in honor of the miracle that occurred during the consecration of the Temple after the victory of the troops of Yehuda Maccabee over the troops of King Antiochus in 164 BC ..
              3. VAS 84
                VAS 84 27 December 2013 01: 11
                +2
                Gazprom is controlled by "liberals", so Putin, together with Sechin (who represents a group of security officials) created the largest company in the "universe" ROSNEFT so that they would have the financial resources to resist them (the leaders), which is why recently the state (represented by the security officials) pushed through the permit for the sale of LNG (before the "Property of Russia" had a monopoly) to all interested companies such as Novatek and of course Rosneft. Now they have a GRYZNE over the pipeline (owned by the "WISHLIST") that runs from Eastern Siberia to the Pacific coast where Rosneft is going to cost a plant for LNG. Well, the conclusion can be drawn by ourselves, why "Echo Matzah", "MK" and a number of face-to-face publications pour so much SHIT on V.V. Putin, and they are not yet covered. Recently, Sechin poked his face in Milera's guano, saying that the largest corporation in the Russian Federation pays taxes 2 times less than Rosneft. I would also like to draw your attention to how RIA-news was dispersed, one fine day (no one knew anything) I think it was done so that the "Liver" could not prevent it.
                P.S. These are just my thoughts why these independent media, so to speak, will not close and they still STink. hi
              4. best_stas
                best_stas 20 March 2015 14: 38
                0
                The most important and terrible enemy is the media !!!!
                It is necessary to get rid of the corrupt, deceitful, vile press first of all! And believe me, when the world is ruled by "truth, honor, conscience ...", everything will be wonderful!
                Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, a good example for those who want to become a real person who has taken place in all good deeds and thoughts!
        2. My address
          My address 26 December 2013 10: 30
          +2
          Sorry recourse .
          I recalled that the ugly TNT, and not the ugly MK, is part of Gazprommedia.
        3. Boris55
          Boris55 26 December 2013 12: 38
          +3
          Quote: My address
          Well, where else with the money of the country allow you to vilify the country!

          Not long to tweet left.

          1. Dilshat
            Dilshat 26 December 2013 18: 37
            +2
            Blah blah blah. So you don’t say that the patriots should be at the helm of the media. And drive out the fifth column at once and set up normal ones.
          2. alone
            alone 26 December 2013 19: 45
            0
            Well, and what's new in this video? As if this is new? After all, it was like that even during the USSR.
          3. does it
            does it 26 December 2013 21: 08
            -5
            Quote: Boris55
            Not long to tweet left.

            And to the point! pseudo-patriotism from blue screens to "water", showing "happy" faces of paid extras. I remember the coverage of the event about the victory over Georgia, on all channels they showed Medvedev reporting with a smart look and paid extras that screamed We won, we won. I also remember the leading state. channels that cut off the information, thereby distorting it, moreover, they still grimaced at the same time, at the same time they gave "complete" information to Russia -24.
            1. aksakal
              aksakal 26 December 2013 23: 52
              +1
              Quote: kvirit
              paid

              _ You will laugh, but as a citizen of a third-party country that has nothing to do with the conflict 080808, I can tell you that Russia really won! Within 5 days! Not without a hitch, with great and inconvenient costs, BUT I WON outright, very quickly, preventing the transition of hostilities into a protracted phase. You didn’t know about it, because you were outraged by the joyful faces of the Russians after this victory. If this is “pseudo-patriotism”, in your opinion, then “patriotism”, you must assume, will call the eternal pulling out of the hair on your ass for any reason, even for success, the eternal whining about “how bad a new Russian is living, without caviar for life is not sweet for bread! " No, if Russia is all inhabited by such "patriots", then excuse me, it is better to stay away from such a Russia! Somewhere in China. For it is fraught - they will flood with tears. And now a lot of whining is impossible in Runet, and even here on the resource besides you, the arrogant lights walk around, because of the minimum wages, life is not sweet for them! Ay, yarosvet, the minimum wage will still be reduced! I hope he will believe and finally engage in suicide, otherwise everything threatens, threatens, everything scares, scares, but does not act like a man! He said that I cannot live with such a minimum wage - don't live like that! But no, the yaki singer Ruslana is doing - she also threatens to burn herself, but she will not burn laughing Yarosvet, do not be like Ruslana, be a man, act at least once in your life as a man! Maybe then the minimum wage will increase, even though a good deed and good!
        4. Patton5
          Patton5 26 December 2013 14: 32
          +4
          I just watched the military secret program on REN TV))) in one of the stories it was said about the PLA exercises, about how they say they conducted land exercises where they practiced a 50 km throw march! Where is the Soviet army with a throw to the English Channel)))) good So much for "media"
          1. igor36
            igor36 26 December 2013 15: 34
            +1
            Quote: Patton5
            I just watched the military secret program on REN TV))) in one of the stories it was said about the PLA exercises, about how they say they conducted land exercises where they practiced a march to throw 50 000 km!

            Is that round the world teaching? lol
            Tooth I give an eyepiece crept in.
            1. Patton5
              Patton5 26 December 2013 18: 41
              +1
              so I myself almost fell off the chair)))
          2. edeligor
            edeligor 26 December 2013 17: 21
            0
            Quote: Patton5
            where they practiced a march of 50 km!

            We pedaled in the first stage of the rocket that sent the Chinese lunar rover !!!!! wassat
        5. 10kAzAk01
          10kAzAk01 26 December 2013 16: 28
          +3
          I have the impression that Lavrov from the Foreign Ministry is capable of this, but he is being pulled back. And our media in general are often unclear for which team they play. An old question, for example, in the ideological orientation of Echo and MK, which are part of the Gazprom media holding. Well, where else on the money of the country allow you to vilify the country!

          Yes, there at the UN and Churkin is able to stir up a lot, only "face" nobody shouts ...
        6. bif
          bif 26 December 2013 22: 07
          +2
          Quote: My address
          An old question, for example, in the ideological orientation of Echo and MK, which are part of the Gazprom media holding

          If we say DE-JURE .. "Currently 66% of all shares of CJSC Echo of Moscow are owned by Gazprom-Media Holding, 34% are divided among the journalists of the radio station, of which 18% belong to Alexey Venediktov personally (Chief Editor) .. Despite the fact that the controlling stake in ZAO Ekho Moskvy belongs to Gazprom-Media Holding, according to the Russian media law, founders or shareholders are not allowed to interfere in editorial policy. The Echo of Moscow Statute prescribes that an editorial course may be determined solely by the editor-in-chief."
          De-FACT, why strangle Pug ... "the dog barks, but the caravan moves on"
      2. Orel
        Orel 26 December 2013 09: 13
        +7
        The collapse can happen only if Europe ceases to be a "chain lapdog" of the United States and starts thinking about its own interests. If you look closely, Europe solved many of the problems of the USA at the expense and loss. Take the same Libya, now there is a terrorist state on the border of the EU, not the US, and this is now a European problem, not an American one, the same is with Yugoslavia and Kosovo. Albania is the same. Afghanistan from the same opera. What has Europe forgotten there? Bin Laden did not attack Europe. Syria can also be written there. The United States is solving its own problems, and new ones are being created for Europe, which the United States no longer concerns ... If Europe finally begins to pursue an independent policy, then the gradual unification of Europe and Russia into one alliance with the creation of common European armed forces will be inevitable. But this is the worst nightmare of the Anglo-Saxons, as it would mean ending their dominance forever ...
        1. GDP
          GDP 26 December 2013 10: 21
          +7
          The fact that Europe does not act rationally to please the United States and to the detriment of its own prospects is a fact. But Europe will never go to unite with Russia. We are for them the geopolitical enemy number 1.
          Different civilizations and different approaches to achieving goals and solving problems.
          1. Orel
            Orel 26 December 2013 11: 08
            +2
            We are the number 1 geopolitical enemy for them.
            Different civilizations and different approaches to achieving goals and solving problems.


            Here I disagree with you. You shouldn't judge Europe by the Baltics and Poland, they just have a birth trauma from breaking off relations with us. There are phobias in Europe, but they are gradually fading away (Russophobia and unparalleled love for America). Both of these phobias go away, but more time is needed. The EU and Russia have a huge trade turnover, what is not the basis for unification? And Europe is no less interested in Russia than Russia is in Europe. European investments, their markets, trade, technologies are important for us. We can offer, in response, the removal of the security problem in general, through the gradual creation of joint armed forces and, naturally, the possibility of developing natural resources. If you look globally, we have much more in common with Europe than it might seem at first glance, but between us there is always a wedge between the United States and Britain or the "NATO Komsomol".
          2. Quiet
            Quiet 26 December 2013 14: 03
            +3
            But Europe will never go to unite with Russia

            What ?? They don’t want to go to the bathhouse as often as Russians !!!! wassat drinks fool fool
          3. The comment was deleted.
        2. Fin
          Fin 26 December 2013 10: 24
          +4
          Quote: Orel
          The collapse can happen only if Europe ceases to be a "chain lapdog" of the United States and starts thinking about its own interests.

          And for this it is necessary that the contingent from Europe get in the face in a local battle with dozens of corpses.
          Quote: Orel
          then the gradual unification of Europe and Russia into one alliance with the creation of a common European armed forces will be inevitable.

          And why do we need this? What kind of army are there, and in 5-10 years there will be a club for homosexual interests.
          The article is normal, but Moska could not resist - she yelled:
          No, not at all because Putin was against (what could he, at least hypothetically, have prevented?), But because Washington did not find anyone in Europe willing to fight "for democracy" in the Middle East either.

          I probably forgot about France, I didn’t know about our ships that blocked the line of fire, when I didn’t see GDP at the summit.
          1. Orel
            Orel 26 December 2013 11: 16
            +3
            And why do we need this? What kind of army are there, and in 5-10 years there will be a club for homosexual interests.


            At least for the reason that Russia is also Europe, but it is also a bridge to Asia. Our geographical position is capable of creating something more that neither the USA, nor Europe, nor China can create. We can unite the continent, but this unification will mean that the Anglo-Saxons will no longer dominate, and they are fighting against this. Scaring Europe by Russia. And why are we in favor of a single sun with Europe? It’s simple, if Europe really defends its own interests, and not American ones, it will turn out that the interests of Russia and Europe turn out to coincide. In a united army, it is easier to repel threats; it will be possible to reduce it somewhat and significantly damage salaries to military personnel and upgrade equipment by 100%. Together, it’s all the same easier than one, and so anyway Russia cannot have parity with the USA and NATO on conventional weapons. Therefore, if Europe turns its back on the United States and creates a European armed forces and Russia will participate there, and NATO will disappear as unnecessary ...
            1. Fin
              Fin 26 December 2013 11: 55
              +5
              Quote: Orel
              Our geographical position is capable of creating something more that neither the USA, nor Europe, nor China can create.

              Affiliation takes place around the strong. Therefore, it’s too early to talk about this, to sort it out first, to raise the economy. How many nations, nationalities, etc. I think we should not say.
              Quote: Orel
              In a combined army, it’s easier to repel threats,

              Do not make me laugh. Command a company where 1 platoon is Russian, 2 Poles, 3 French and you will understand everything. Or remind the allies of England, France, Poland in WW2? The smell of fried naglosaksy threw everything home, they forgot about Poland altogether. Or an ally of the Germans - Italians, who got involved in a fight, and then the Germans raked. And there is Austerlitz, where the allied armies could not decide who is cooler and more important. Should we all subscribe to them again?
            2. igor36
              igor36 26 December 2013 15: 44
              +1
              Quote: Orel
              In a combined army, it’s easier to repel threats,

              And who will command? In turn, on schedule, or what? After all, the army is subordinate to politicians, and the politics of countries even belonging to the same military bloc can differ significantly. In such an army, there is not the most important thing that our army has: unity and confidence that the neighboring unit will carry out the order, and not depart by order of its government.
              1. Orel
                Orel 27 December 2013 06: 25
                0
                Dear Igor and Fin! You concentrate on particulars. Everything can be solved. Speaking about the united Armed Forces, I’m not talking about the complete absence of a national command structure, I’m talking about the general planning, forecasting and general plan of defense and protection of European interests. Each country operates within its own armed forces. Command is quite possible on the principle of creating a committee of chiefs of staff from countries participating in joint forces. They will already choose who will carry out overall coordination. The tasks will be set by the national army and it will already solve it. Thus, the question of the tactical use of troops of one country or another within the framework of the assigned task will be decided by the generals of this country, and not by someone else. Roughly speaking, the task is to take this and this area. How you will do this is your personal business. Such a system successfully worked in the Roman army. Yes, and talented generals are not only in Russia, I assure you. Yes, and future conflicts most likely will not be the same as during the Second World War, so there will most likely be no permanent fronts, neighbors on the right and left, swift actions without any attention to the flanks and rear, a strong bias towards the Air Force and precision weapons, use special forces ...
                1. igor36
                  igor36 27 December 2013 11: 03
                  0
                  Quote: Orel
                  Command is quite possible on the principle of creating a committee of chiefs of staff from countries participating in joint forces. They will already choose who will carry out overall coordination.

                  Such a command with the principles of election and re-election during military operations is death for the army. The main principle of commanding troops is one-man command. The commander-in-chief is a god and a king for the army, and not a coordinator who reads out the minutes of a meeting of a "certain committee". The cases of such command are described above in the article.
        3. Sergey Sitnikov
          Sergey Sitnikov 27 December 2013 07: 38
          0
          I agree with you ... on my own I will expand your thesis about the war in Yugoslavia (which struck me), here (all) notice how active ecologists are in Europe, in general the European attitude towards ecology ...
          And how so smart they could not figure out and understand what the military actions over the Danube are fraught with - the main waterway of Europe ...
          I don’t give a damn to the pirates, but the Eurogays somehow)))) about ten bridges to the river dropped all oil pipes, shells with depleted uranium are still at the bottom of the Danube - to allow solving the problems of amers in their territory - DEBILS
      3. Vovka levka
        Vovka levka 26 December 2013 13: 36
        -2
        Quote: Romn
        The collapse needs to be helped in every way, why our channels throughout Europe do not shout about injustice, about the unequal rights in the bloc, we need to set them against each other, especially in countries where the number of victims is greatest, let them bite! Once there is an information war, it is time to go on the offensive.
        divide et impera! Divide and rule...

        Russia also needs to join NATO, paradoxically as it is. Past grievances must be forgotten, because China is very serious, and India will not help here. China is not in vain investing in Pakistan, it is investing in a counterweight to India.
        There will soon be big problems with China, and neglecting it will cost Russia dearly. And you need to think about it now, while there is still time, but it leaves and leaves very quickly.
        And if someone thinks that nuclear forces are a guarantee of security, then this is not so. This is a guarantee of the end, and for everyone.
        1. yehat
          yehat 26 December 2013 14: 45
          0
          China has more counterbalances than India - Japan + to some extent South Korea, Malaysia and Australia.
        2. yehat
          yehat 26 December 2013 14: 45
          0
          China has more counterbalances than India - Japan + to some extent South Korea, Malaysia and Australia.
      4. knn54
        knn54 26 December 2013 15: 40
        +1
        -Romn: collapse needs to be promoted in every way ...
        This “Alliance of Enemies” could repeatedly destroy the “cod wars” between Iceland and the UK, the fragile peace between Turkey and Greece (Cyprus). And this year marks three hundred years of England’s capture of the “Rocks” - Gibraltar, with which Spain categorically disagrees.
        TODAY NATO does not act as a guarantor of security in the region, but on the contrary - incites hostility, an arms race and aggravates contradictions between countries, being a factor of destabilization of the situation.
        Does Europe need SUCH An Alliance that prolongs its suffering by driving further into a stalemate ???
        PS To protect its interests, Iceland (NATO MEMBER) bought ships in the USSR! The Yankees urgently ran into the British ... the latter lost. By the way, the Hague international court ruled that the nuggets were right, but Iceland simply IGNORED this decision !!!
      5. bif
        bif 26 December 2013 21: 58
        0
        Quote: Romn
        why our channels throughout Europe do not shout about injustice

        Surprise, but shout, at what actively with 2008 and their popularity is growing exponentially. It’s just that these channels are English-speaking (there is also French), and our citizens don’t watch this, give them TNT and other rubbish.
        1. bif
          bif 26 December 2013 22: 58
          0
          Quote: bif
          Surprise, but shout, at what actively with 2008 and their popularity is growing exponentially. It's just that these channels are English-speaking (there is also in French),

          Here are some examples .. RT Channel
          In the states:"According to Nielsen Media Research, in November 2009 in Greater Washington, RT ranked first in primetime audience among foreign news channels. By January 2010, RT had become the second most popular foreign channel in the United States, following the BBC. b. The Russian channel is 6,5 times ahead of Al Jazeera in third place. "
          In Europe: "According to Synovate, in October 2009, RT had a European audience of 7 million, with 12% turning on RT every day, 53% citing high quality programming, and 23% citing RT as their favorite news channel."
          In England:“According to BARB, the nationwide UK TV rating system, RT is watched by over half a million (555) people aged 4 and over each week. RT has a monthly audience of over 1,3 million and a quarterly audience of almost 2,5 million. Thanks to this, RT is 2 times ahead of Euronews, 3 times the popular American TV channel Fox News, and also ahead of the Qatari TV channel Al Jazeera English in terms of the number of viewers "
          "On June 3, 2013, Russia Today became the world's first news TV channel to surpass 1 billion YouTube views,"
          "According to Forbes, RT showed the highest percentage of new visitors (51,37%), while the number of visits to arabic.rt.com exceeded 50 million in a year. Popularity ratings were compiled by Forbes Middle East, based on Google Analytics.
          The Russian information TV channel in Arabic "Rusiya al-Yaum" was launched in May 2007. On December 26, 2012, the Rusiya al-Yaum TV channel began broadcasting from the new RT studio complex in high definition (Full HD) format. Today the channel is available to more than 350 million viewers in the Middle East, North Africa and Europe. According to a Nielsen study, more than 5 million people watch the channel in seven Arab countries alone. The audience of "Rusiya al-Yaum" is larger than the audience of the leading Arabic-speaking European TV channels Deutsche Welle Arabic, France 24 Arabic and Chinese CCTV Arabic combined. "
        2. bif
          bif 26 December 2013 23: 10
          0
          Quote: bif
          It’s just that these channels are English-speaking (there is also French), and our citizens don’t watch this

          "Comments of French viewers of the online channel ProRussia (Voix de la Russie - Voice of Russia):
          59. Laurent 14 / 01 / 2013
          Thanks to Russia from the bottom of my heart for giving us this video magazine that defends the truth, patriotism and the French people!
          We in France are strangled by an Atlantis-Zionist clique that controls our press, our political parties and our economy, serving foreign interests. We would need the French Vladimir Putin, the head of the French state.
          Long live the Russian and French peoples, who, I hope, will be able to unite in order to protect themselves from those who plan to imprison them!
          And long life Prorussia.TV!
          58. Derenne Marc 13 / 01 / 2013 19: 27
          It’s bravo to Russia, because we are more and more in France, those who are already fed up with this information, which our large French media are manipulating, these mass media, decomposed by the left, which act on the orders of the current socialist authorities and which seek to change the population in our country. the country, knowing that new voters who have left the mass Islamic-African immigration will vote for the socialists!
          56. THE SWISS COSSACK 13 / 01 / 2013 15: 26
          Russia has become free. Free to speak out, where they do not spy on you and do not create all kinds of problems. As General Gisan, General de Gaulle, President Putin is a true fighter, good luck in the future and what a pleasure to listen to Prorussia TV, as it was from Radio London during the German occupation.
          55. Sojdiana 13 / 01 / 2013 03: 28
          Thank you!
          We are prevented from having good relations with the Russians, it is economically bad not only for Russians, it is bad for Europe, but who is the winner in this story and who wants to create a Russian enemy, who wants to establish a shield around Russia, who wants to use the countries of the former USSR and to unite them with Europe in order to use them against the Russians, there is a risk of unification up to the economic collapse of Europe, who is the real winner in this game?
          54. Victoire 12 / 01 / 2013 23: 56
          Finally, television information where you hear the truth. Thank! Instead of demonizing Russia, France should have taken an example from it, Putin is much more reliable than our state leaders. This is a real man, not a jerk, like our French "elite", which holds our country hostage.
          53. Ania 12 / 01 / 2013 14: 03
          Finally!
          Have a happy journey to those who wish to discover this fabulous country, its culture and its people.
          although the people are more or less poor, you will not find anywhere else equal to what is happening in the French suburbs !!!
          http://www.routard.c...dest/russie.htm
          52. Enrico 12 / 01 / 2013 12: 02
          If 30 years ago the Russians came to the West, I would take up arms, today I would meet them as liberators.
          51. Josette 12 / 01 / 2013 09: 50
          Thank you for all this information that is hidden here in France.
          49. MEX 11 / 01 / 2013 20: 09
          I opened this channel.
          Thank you and long live the Russians and Russia.
          47. Hermann 11 / 01 / 2013 17: 05
          Recently, I said that at 1940 de Gaulle left for England to organize a “Free France” and restore the country at a distance ... Today it would not be possible. Fortunately, Russia remains for us to “receive” us and allow us, once again at a distance, to restore the mentality and our beautiful country. Schaslivovo puti i spassibo bolchoe!
          The whole list is here http://ursa-tm.ru/forum/index.php?/topic/41556-prorussiatv-%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1
          %82%D0%BE%D0%BA-%D1%81%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%BE-%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0
          %B4%D1%83%D1%85%D0%B0/
    2. ziqzaq
      ziqzaq 26 December 2013 11: 30
      +2
      Quote: Deniska999
      If it falls apart - good

      It's time, how much you can lace ....
    3. Quiet
      Quiet 26 December 2013 13: 58
      +2
      If it falls apart - well, it does not fall apart now - it will fall apart later.

      Lousy Europe after the collapse of the USSR began to decompose. Until their brains, intoxicated by Washington and London, will not soon reach the policy that VOVA started !!! Russia laughed at their "Blue" policy from a high hill !!!! They do not understand that we are laughing at their hysterical visas !! Right now she (EU), ALREADY can’t vyaknut without agreeing with VOVA !!! As a result, the times will return when, without the consent of Mother of All Russia EKATERINA, "NOT A SINGLE GUN IN EUROPE HAS THE RIGHT TO MAKE A SHOT" !!!!! <Time will show that I am right - remember !!! > .....
    4. Quiet
      Quiet 26 December 2013 13: 58
      0
      If it falls apart - well, it does not fall apart now - it will fall apart later.

      Lousy Europe after the collapse of the USSR began to decompose. Until their brains, intoxicated by Washington and London, will not soon reach the policy that VOVA started !!! Russia laughed at their "Blue" policy from a high hill !!!! They do not understand that we are laughing at their hysterical visas !! Right now she (EU), ALREADY can’t vyaknut without agreeing with VOVA !!! As a result, the times will return when, without the consent of Mother of All Russia EKATERINA, "NOT A SINGLE GUN IN EUROPE HAS THE RIGHT TO MAKE A SHOT" !!!!! <Time will show that I am right - remember !!! > .....
    5. Patton5
      Patton5 26 December 2013 14: 24
      0
      Such a good cheer is a patriotic article, with reference to the opinion of some experts .... When did the SAA bring down the F-22? Apparently I missed something what
    6. Lord of the Sith
      Lord of the Sith 26 December 2013 14: 32
      0
      I wrote earlier, I can repeat it. Europe needs to get out of NATO and build up its European security forces. To reduce armies and concentrate on quick reaction forces and special services. Which would act only if someone climbs to Europe. Europe did not fit into the Middle East. They would be engaged in anti-terror and crime related to migration. They would save a ton of money.
      1. Lord of the Sith
        Lord of the Sith 26 December 2013 15: 16
        -1
        By the way, I go to the operas and this site. There you can see the date of death, the cause of death, the rank of military man. http://icasualties.org/OEF/index.aspx
    7. APASUS
      APASUS 26 December 2013 21: 33
      0
      Quote: Deniska999
      If it falls apart - well, it does not fall apart now - it will fall apart later.

      Do not fall apart. And here it is written correctly
      they cannot get out of NATO, because the national armies of any individual Western European country have become the full guard, therefore, getting out of America's umbrella entails an increase in military spending, which the current economic crisis does not have

      They will endure humiliation and remain silent in response to the insult.
    8. bif
      bif 26 December 2013 21: 54
      0
      Quote: Deniska999
      If it falls apart - well, it does not fall apart now - then it falls apart

      I agree, thanks to the author.
      Here
      The combat power of the North Atlantic bloc so that there is no bawling NATO Fobmore and more becomes decorative
      meaning more appropriate Nato phil
    9. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 27 December 2013 07: 27
      +1
      Yes, it’s not about the collapse as such, the question is about the bases at our borders, they are unlikely to be removed.
  2. avant-garde
    avant-garde 26 December 2013 08: 11
    +1
    What not to be avoided, we stock up on beer with fish and wait for the collapse of NATO drinks
    1. tronin.maxim
      tronin.maxim 26 December 2013 09: 35
      +5
      Quote: avant-garde
      stock up on beer with fish

      Wow, the main thing is not Coca-Cola chips — it is bad for our health! And then we will become like Americans:
      1. alone
        alone 26 December 2013 19: 48
        +4
        Quote: tronin.maxim
        Wow, the main thing is not Coca-Cola chips — it is bad for our health! And then we will become like Americans:


        Look at the photo carefully. In the upper left corner there is a poster advertising a gamberger.
        The inscription on the poster is written in either Georgian or Armenian. Well, where are the Americans?
    2. Botanologist
      Botanologist 26 December 2013 09: 44
      +8
      The situation in NATO within the meaning of the article.
  3. saag
    saag 26 December 2013 08: 13
    +5
    They used to write about decaying capitalism, it doesn’t rot at all, now about the collapse of NATO, well, France came out of it before, then returned back, another illusion, why should these articles create a false impression?
    1. Valkyrie
      Valkyrie 26 December 2013 08: 59
      +2
      The trend towards weakening certainly exists, in many respects it is true, and the economic crisis is also doing its job, but the collapse of NATO is really very far away, I'm afraid we will not live to see it, although it is difficult to predict something definite now. Let's hope that everything will be so, let their homosexual policy ruin them themselves.
  4. andrei332809
    andrei332809 26 December 2013 08: 16
    +11
    NATO on the verge of collapse?

    yes and x ... with them
    1. Stiletto
      Stiletto 26 December 2013 09: 20
      +4
      Quote: andrei332809
      yes and x ... with them


      For a long time already it is no longer really a military, but a bureaucratic organization in which "there is no agreement between the comrades." The States will burst - and this alliance will not survive for two minutes, torn apart by internal problems and contradictions.

      Andrey - hello! And good morning to all of us hi
      1. andrei332809
        andrei332809 26 December 2013 09: 21
        +1
        Quote: Stiletto
        Andrey - hello! And good morning to all of us

        Hi hi
    2. Aryan
      Aryan 26 December 2013 10: 46
      +7
      Nata on the verge of collapse
      falling apart into homosexuals and pedophiles

      and what for us in Nato
      us and without nato p-dato drinks
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. major071
      major071 26 December 2013 17: 45
      +8
      andrei332809
      NATO on the verge of collapse?
      yes and x ... with them

      drinks Gentlemen, comrades, brothers! Geopolitics, with such crap that NATO will fall apart or not fall apart - this is not known to science, but as they say there is no smoke without fire! drinks Please forgive me, but today my beloved mother-in-law came to visit, and for her health, yes, under the mushrooms, and not just one-and-a-half little white, yes I put on that NATU ... drinks
      1. alone
        alone 26 December 2013 19: 51
        +4

        my favorite mother-in-law

        what belay lol
        For the first time I see a man who overturns vodka for the health of his mother-in-law.

        laughing For your mother-in-law, major! drinks
        1. My address
          My address 26 December 2013 21: 26
          +2
          And I have a normal relationship with my mother-in-law. She is only offended by one thing - I’ll make money for it or don’t buy it. And she does not like to be obliged to whom.
          А drinks it’s necessary for a major, a normal mother-in-law is only with a normal son-in-law. That I praised myself ...
          1. major071
            major071 26 December 2013 21: 45
            +5
            Thank you guys! I bow to you for your support! drinks
        2. major071
          major071 26 December 2013 21: 31
          +7
          alone
          For the first time I see a man who overturns vodka for the health of his mother-in-law.
          laughing For your mother-in-law, major! drinks

          Thank you, for 19 years after the wedding, my mother-in-law never said anything against me. The question is why? Yes, it’s just that my wife is golden, she is standing by the wall for her husband. And the mother-in-law is also for me, but against it it turns out no one! good
  5. makarov
    makarov 26 December 2013 08: 18
    +4
    If we take as a basis that NATO is a military bloc of interests, with the relevant rights and obligations of the parties, then, despite certain internal differences, it is really far from collapse. In the near future, I suppose the collapse will not take place, although the increase in internal conflicts is not decreasing.
    1. old rocket man
      old rocket man 26 December 2013 09: 00
      +2
      Quote: makarov
      If we take as a basis that NATO is a military bloc of interests, with the relevant rights and obligations of the parties, then, despite certain internal differences, it is really far from collapse. In the near future, I suppose the collapse will not take place, although the increase in internal conflicts is not decreasing.


      Alas, you are right. All NATO members are united by persistent hatred and fear of Russia and the "leading hand" of the United States. Within the bloc squabble will grow, but no more than disputes in the gang over the division of the booty. request
      1. Bagatur
        Bagatur 26 December 2013 11: 34
        +2
        We don’t have a hatred for Russia ... for the Poles, the Ruman Madar you can think of! Rather, fears that a country outside of NATO is indispensable as a sanctioner. The Vedas were so threatened when Bulgaria was in no hurry to join them, there is no NATO, there is no EU ... Isolation is allowed and we can .. now Serbia wants to join the EU too, thank God no one is forced to go to NATO after Kosovo ...
  6. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 26 December 2013 08: 22
    +3
    the inability of computerized armies to fight the savage goats;
    laughing Russia will probably have to learn to fight them as always ..))) (then NATO will not fall apart and just scatter ...) bully
    1. S-200
      S-200 26 December 2013 09: 19
      +2
      Quote: MIKHAN
      the inability of computerized armies to fight the savage goats

      when it feels like it, these "goat herders" will be poisoned like fleas, quietly, without noise and any humanism ...
      1. And Us Rat
        And Us Rat 26 December 2013 11: 42
        0
        Quote: S-200
        Quote: MIKHAN
        the inability of computerized armies to fight the savage goats

        when it feels like it, these "goat herders" will be poisoned like fleas, quietly, without noise and any humanism ...

        The problem is that all the goats will have to be poisoned for this.
        1. old rocket man
          old rocket man 26 December 2013 12: 57
          +2
          Quote: And Us Rat
          The problem is that all the goats will have to be poisoned for this.


          What is the problem, little dichlorvos? laughing
          1. And Us Rat
            And Us Rat 26 December 2013 15: 27
            +2
            Quote: old rocket
            Quote: And Us Rat
            The problem is that all the goats will have to be poisoned for this.


            What is the problem, little dichlorvos? laughing

            Nah, the defenders of "goat herders" and other accompanying unclean things ... will raise the stench of living creatures laughing
    2. Bagatur
      Bagatur 26 December 2013 11: 36
      +5
      They turned the war into a kind of gamer competition ... click a button and ... done! A simple thing cannot be understood in any way: "There is war, war is war, people go to war and die!"
      1. andranick
        andranick 26 December 2013 13: 30
        +3
        This is true. Behind the figures of economists / financiers - people are not visible, and the button - does not smell like fresh blood.
  7. Semenov
    Semenov 26 December 2013 08: 55
    +3
    If there is an external enemy, they will never fall apart, they will be afraid. But there is a great and terrible enemy in our heads - the USSR (Russia), how excited they were at a humorous video about the Swedish homosexual army.
  8. S-200
    S-200 26 December 2013 08: 58
    0
    From the point of view of the "couch strategist" winked so, in my opinion, the collapse of this monster (on the European theater of war) needs to be prepared slowly ...
    Why should we wish for the collapse of NATO in peacetime? So that they can create a new, stronger international military organization ??
    (In peacetime, "collapse" will not occur for a variety of political, economic and military-technical reasons. I will not list them, they are obvious for the participating countries.)
    let soupostat have some confidence in the unity of the block ... wink
    In the European theater of operations, we need "bridgehead countries" from whose territory (in case of war) it is possible to successfully combat operations - forcing or crushing the armed forces of neighboring NATO member states. For example - Ukraine!, Serbia, Slovenia, Belarus, Transnistria, Syria, Algeria ... Expand political, economic, military-technical cooperation with these countries, build and expand military bases on their territory, train personnel for their Armed Forces in our higher educational institutions. ..Train their civilian specialists.
    Then we will have some certainty that we can act against NATO (on EuroTVD) from different strategic directions.
    And the NATO "six", in the event of our successful actions, will jump out of the bloc like fleas after dichlorvos ... There are historical examples! hi
  9. Nickanor
    Nickanor 26 December 2013 09: 03
    +1
    If the pin-dos and NATO are opposed by a real well-equipped enemy, and not by "goat herders", then all the fun will begin.
    1. old rocket man
      old rocket man 26 December 2013 13: 01
      +2
      Quote: Nickanor
      If the pin-dos and NATO are opposed by a real well-equipped enemy, and not by "goat herders", then all the fun will begin.


      Have you ever been to the slaughterhouse of a meat processing plant?
      I assure you, nothing interesting drinks
  10. luka095
    luka095 26 December 2013 09: 08
    +2
    Of course, it would be good if NATO collapsed. But there is no need to hope for that. NATO will not fall apart, although there are enough internal problems in the bloc. The participating countries are more likely to "mow" from the military initiatives of the Americans, referring to anything at the same time. For a crisis, for example. Another thing is that a stick in their wheels can be put, propaganda. Pedaling in every way to the existing problems, to the American dictatorship.
    1. washi
      washi 26 December 2013 11: 49
      +2
      Quote: luka095
      Of course, it would be good if NATO collapsed. But there is no need to hope for that. NATO will not fall apart, although there are enough internal problems in the bloc. The participating countries are more likely to "mow" from the military initiatives of the Americans, referring to anything at the same time. For a crisis, for example. Another thing is that a stick in their wheels can be put, propaganda. Pedaling in every way to the existing problems, to the American dictatorship.

      But the Europeans, in truth, are at an impasse: they cannot get out of NATO, because the national armies of any single West European country (except perhaps Switzerland and Finland, but they are not members of the alliance) have become the full guard, therefore Out of America's umbrella entails an increase in military spending, which the current economic crisis does not have.
      Why should they leave NATO? Can be expelled from NATO USA. We will promise the rest that if there are no amers in their territory, then we will not attack the first.
      And if they still recognize Russian as the state language (at least the second or the language of interethnic communication), then we will also protect it.
    2. yur
      yur 26 December 2013 21: 58
      0
      Thirty years ago, I would have been ready to lay my right hand on the fact that the USSR will live forever, and now I will not give a cigarette butt (I will not give up this business) for the reason that NATO will not fall apart.
  11. groin
    groin 26 December 2013 09: 18
    +2
    NATO - Military international pyramid (type MMM). World bosses will have their own (or better, God forbid, they will have), depositors, as usual, will "fly by."
  12. Denis_Rossiya
    Denis_Rossiya 26 December 2013 09: 30
    0
    But can you learn more about the downed f-22?
    1. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 26 December 2013 10: 15
      0
      Quote: Denis_Rossiya
      But can you learn more about the downed f-22?

      Yes, of course - here is the link:
      http://pegas-publishing.com.ua/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%
      B7%D0%BA%D0%B8-%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%B0-%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81.jpg
    2. GDP
      GDP 26 December 2013 10: 16
      +1
      About F22 brought down by Syria and tomahawks - this is pure lie. F22 has never been shot down by anyone, especially Syria ...
      1. Sargord A.
        Sargord A. 26 December 2013 10: 20
        +3
        Quote: GDP
        F22 no one has ever shot down

        Well, that does not fly, it cannot be shot down.
        1. My address
          My address 26 December 2013 21: 29
          +1
          Normally you commented!
          good
      2. Bagatur
        Bagatur 26 December 2013 11: 38
        +2
        Yeah .. expensive shuka! God forbid they lost, as he will explain that this is not a prodigy worth 300 million per pike!
    3. Poppy
      Poppy 26 December 2013 10: 39
      +3
      Turkish shot down, wrote about it
      1. Bagatur
        Bagatur 26 December 2013 11: 39
        +3
        F-4G-yesterday's den, he is the same age as the MiG-21 in the full normal that shot down!
    4. alone
      alone 26 December 2013 21: 51
      0
      You can. It just wasn't there)) lol
  13. Predator-74
    Predator-74 26 December 2013 09: 48
    +2
    Speck off NATO!
    It seems those who claim that the USSR lost in the Cold War - they hurried a little, the USSR may have lost, but there are certainly no winners.
  14. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 26 December 2013 09: 57
    +2
    Quote: S-200
    Quote: MIKHAN
    the inability of computerized armies to fight the savage goats

    when it feels like it, these "goat herders" will be poisoned like fleas, quietly, without noise and any humanism ...

    amers were offered to poison Afghan poppy (chemistry is harmless and effective ..) You can’t say ... they will begin to starve ..))) Well, of course it’s heroin, after all, it goes to Russia in tons .. bully
  15. ATATA
    ATATA 26 December 2013 10: 01
    +5
    Litter!
    But I put "-" in the article.
    Written in the style: "Throw in hats."
    A little nauseous after reading ...
    Patriot, this is not the one who loots enemies, but the one who loves the Motherland. hi
  16. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 26 December 2013 10: 03
    +2
    Of course, the basis of the military power of NATO is US troops. The European military, hiding under an American umbrella, under the pressure of the economic crisis reduce their armed forces causing legitimate American anger. For such actions, the Yankees despise the representatives of the old world, which is well shown in the article. At the same time, the Americans are swallowing this bitter pill, as the Europeans are taking part in "peacekeeping" (read aggression) operations in various parts of the world, giving the purely American operation an international character.
  17. MolGro
    MolGro 26 December 2013 10: 08
    +1
    NATO is a gathering of competitors of the EU and the Penis dos are poles of power that interfere with each other!
  18. Semurg
    Semurg 26 December 2013 10: 08
    +2
    NATO was created as a threat to the USSR. There is no USSR, Europe has no external threat. The only ones who can leave the sanitary cordon from the East European countries from the mythical threat from the Russian Federation are all.
  19. Song Hu Chan
    Song Hu Chan 26 December 2013 10: 20
    +3
    The goats, as they are called, keep this whole armada of democrats in fear.
  20. The comment was deleted.
  21. Sharingan
    Sharingan 26 December 2013 11: 09
    +2
    NATO’s internal conflicts are likely to lead to qualitative changes in the alliance, rather than collapse.
    For example, the weakening role of the United States, the change of the actual doctrine from aggressively attacking to passive-defensive, etc.
  22. shinobi
    shinobi 26 December 2013 11: 15
    +3
    Hhe! Indeed, an open secret. As the Chinese comrades put it about NATO, a paper tiger. But don't relax, it's too early.
  23. crambol
    crambol 26 December 2013 11: 18
    +6
    Go, my faithful friends!
  24. Renat
    Renat 26 December 2013 11: 50
    +1
    That is, there are US citizens and the rest of the world. And it doesn’t matter if he is a NATO member.
  25. washi
    washi 26 December 2013 11: 53
    +2
    And in the article I liked the map of the deployment of troops.
    The Germans with the Scandinavians in the north. They know that the closer to us, the calmer.
    (especially considering our agreements and influence in Afghanistan)
  26. Egoza
    Egoza 26 December 2013 12: 02
    +2
    Recently, the Americans have been urging their European "partners" to increase funding for NATO. And EUROPE HAS NO MONEY! But the United States is having a hard time with it! And this is good! When there is no money, the alliance will gradually collapse. It is possible that it is easier for the EU to create its own NATO, especially since there is a tendency to free itself from the US dictate. As a result, both American and European NATO will be formidable in name only.
  27. Bosk
    Bosk 26 December 2013 12: 27
    +4
    Before the collapse of NATO, it’s like walking to the moon, what NATO is, is the USA, England, France, Germany, and everything else is just a husk from seeds, or rather, a bridgehead. For these four NATO countries, not only a military bloc, but also an economic one, they make a lot of capital on it and I doubt that they will give up the "Pabla", they would rather start a war themselves, just not to lose the opportunity to "cut down the attendants"! money is spinning in this organization ...
  28. Altona
    Altona 26 December 2013 12: 58
    +4
    Quote: me
    How they fight and what they leave behind is another question, the main goal is achieved.

    -------------------------------
    What specific goals can you clarify? I don’t remember that the American army alone would achieve the declared goals ... All recent wars have been waged by MULTINATIONAL FORCES, starting with the ever-memorable war in Korea ... This is firstly ... Secondly, yes, the American army has managed to achieve great successes in logistics, transferring huge manpower and rear reserves around the world, but military success is still not impressive ... Even backward Iraq, with destroyed air defense and fighters buried in the ground, took suitcases with money, since the praised Abrams froze on the outskirts of Baghdad ... But Basra generally resisted as a Brest Fortress, to death ... Yugoslavia was stupidly thrown from the air, and not by the positions of the military, but the civilians were ironed (a war crime actually) ... Further, the occupation is actively supported by private military companies the army is fenced by roadblocks and tanks ... The British SAS is usually charged with preparing and reconnaissance operations in the front line ... In general, in a nutshell, success is evident ...
    ---------------------------------
    I reposted my own commentary to another article "A Dead Hand for Tomahawks" ... Earlier ...
  29. Dymkovsky
    Dymkovsky 26 December 2013 12: 59
    0
    Bosk, sensible!
  30. Andron_by
    Andron_by 26 December 2013 13: 30
    0
    In a relationship, positive is important! When the head Chef Uncle Sam was spreading a sandwich, Europe, wiping its drool with appetite, sat down at a banquet ... We had a good walk. Later, the hospitable Sashka broke down at work: "Guys, I have things to do! Clean up please" ....
  31. Vedmed_23
    Vedmed_23 26 December 2013 13: 40
    +1
    The collapse of NATO is hardly possible in the near future, but for the money, the Americans can well tear themselves,
    They seem to have come to the limit of their ability to print money free of charge, they will soon have to pay the bills, and then again there will be a need for a war for resources somewhere. Here we will see the desire of the other NATO "members" to fight.
  32. silver_roman
    silver_roman 26 December 2013 13: 54
    +1
    at the expense of the downed f-22 and tomogawks - complete nonsense.
    and about the insolvency of NATO-a fact.
    a meat grinder in Libya is evidence of this.
    It is customary to evaluate the state of the armed forces by the number of military equipment, the size of the army, and the equipment of personnel. But if you look from the other side: I don’t remember which NATO member country has an F-16 fleet of 50 aircraft, but there’s nothing to bombard! this was one of the main problems. Unless to hire a kamikaze.
    It seems to me that the authority of the USA will steadily decline, but I am also sure that the whole of Europe and NATO's "ally" of NATO are on a very tough needle in the form of loans from the FRS. the states foresaw all this and I can very simply manipulate the "uiomass" as they want.
    As for me, this period of history is the most unprincipled, disgusting, vile and disgusting. And I thank all the "leader" !!!
    I wish I could live to see the collapse of this whole pack of jackals in the form of Western "democracy"!
    The words of V.V. Rutin that the collapse of the USSR was the greatest tragedy of the 20th century are becoming increasingly relevant!
    There should not and cannot be a unipolar world order ... at least in its current form!
    1. mitya24
      mitya24 26 December 2013 16: 20
      -1
      God grant that even our children do not live to see this collapse. Because the collapse will be big and loud ............. and also radioactive
      1. silver_roman
        silver_roman 26 December 2013 16: 34
        +1
        Well, depending on what kind of collapse you thought. I personally am talking about the collapse of the Fed, dollar dependence, color revolutions around the world, terrorism sponsored from abroad, drug trafficking, etc.
        because if everything goes as it goes, then maybe our children will not exist at all!
        without significant changes, it definitely won’t get better.
        The task of our state is to minimize the consequences of the collapse!
    2. mitya24
      mitya24 26 December 2013 16: 20
      0
      God grant that even our children do not live to see this collapse. Because the collapse will be big and loud ............. and also radioactive
  33. Panikovsky
    Panikovsky 26 December 2013 14: 51
    +1
    when it falls apart, trampled on the ruins, and until then qualitatively and purposefully rearm and modernize the army. no matter what happens to this, we must not relax.
  34. escobar
    escobar 26 December 2013 14: 58
    +1
    I don’t know, I don’t know .. But here is an article that makes you think, almost a sensation:
    http://vremia.ua/rubrics/zarubezhe/5052.php
    1. silver_roman
      silver_roman 26 December 2013 16: 37
      +1
      that I would not call it a sensation.
      just in the light of recent events, the states are forced to reorient all their forces and resources in the Asia-Pacific region to contain China. They do not need a war on several fronts. For this, they conclude a "peace" with Syria and Iran.
  35. The comment was deleted.
  36. kelevra
    kelevra 26 December 2013 15: 17
    +1
    Interesting graphs! The USA shouted, “Let's go forward to Afghanistan!” And they themselves sit down in holes and watch their allies hammering everywhere! It's purely American!
  37. Asan Ata
    Asan Ata 26 December 2013 15: 26
    +2
    What is NATO? This is the Sher Khan with Tobacco liqueur. According to the plot, Tabaki will roll away from Sher Khan as soon as he feels weakness.
  38. Sharingan
    Sharingan 26 December 2013 15: 31
    0
    Ura-patriot icteric propaganda is doing its job: the US military is already unprincipled, immoral and cowardly people. Although they have more than enough examples of personal heroism when two of them voluntarily went out against dozens of enemies.
    It must be assumed that everything in Russia is good, that the capture of Grozny was the pinnacle of military art, that hundreds of drive to kill green recruits are ideal tactics, that we have no cowards and traitors, that we did not throw Yugoslavia, that we did not invade Finland and Afghanistan etc. etc.
    "A log in the eye .."
    1. Kolovrat77
      Kolovrat77 26 December 2013 15: 52
      +2
      Quote: Sharingan
      invaded Finland and Afghanistan, etc. etc.

      This is generally a pearl, brave gentleman from Tambov.


      Quote: Sharingan
      that we did not throw Yugoslavia

      Well, since we are invaders, what would not leave Yugoslavia? AND?
      1. Sharingan
        Sharingan 26 December 2013 16: 07
        -3
        Quote: Kolovrat77
        This is generally a pearl, brave gentleman from Tambov.

        What's wrong? Finland and Afghanistan are sovereign states. In both wars, the USSR pursued purely its geopolitical interests, ignoring either the norms of international law or the international community (for which it was expelled from the League of Nations). Doesn't it remind anyone?
        Or did they attack us, huh?
        So here, uncle.
        1. Kolovrat77
          Kolovrat77 26 December 2013 16: 23
          +5
          Yes, I personally only for what we attacked. And I personally am not ashamed not for the country, not for my grandfather, not for the Afghans. But for Yugoslavia there is a shameful moths. And I advise you to decide. So there you go, kid.
          1. Sharingan
            Sharingan 26 December 2013 18: 44
            -1
            Quote: Kolovrat77
            Yes, I personally only for what we attacked

            So, and who against? There are no good or bad ones, but only a conflict of one’s own interests and those of others. And that’s all.

            Quote: Kolovrat77
            And I personally am not ashamed not for the country, not for my grandfather, not for the Afghans.

            Just do not need to escalate pathos here. Fathers and grandfathers did their duty to the end, for which they honor and honor. But that does not make these wars better or more ethical.

            Quote: Kolovrat77
            And I advise you to decide.

            With what?
        2. silver_roman
          silver_roman 26 December 2013 18: 19
          +3
          Well, actually, a revolution was initiated in Afghanistan, and it was the legitimately elected government that asked for help from the USSR. It seemed so. NATO, being a secret source of many revolutions, themselves attack sovereign countries. This is essentially anarchy from the point of view of international law. But they also managed to adjust their actions to laws: there is such a point in the UN Charter: if 10 or more countries agree on the same opinion, then this opinion or decision can be considered generally accepted. It seems the item was adopted in the 60s. So a pack of Western countries can declare anything and fit it into law. base. In the end, everything looks legitimate, but in fact, outrage!
          1. Sharingan
            Sharingan 26 December 2013 18: 47
            -2
            Quote: silver_roman
            Well, actually, a revolution was initiated in Afghanistan, and it was the legitimately elected government that asked for help from the USSR.

            Oh yes, that’s how it was. The president of Afghanistan was killed at night almost in his bed by the Soviet military.
            The pretext "international duty" is no better than the pretext "fighting the terrorist Taliban."

            Quote: silver_roman
            NATO, being a secret source of many revolutions

            Presumably, the USSR did not help the communist revolutions around the world, right?
            1. silver_roman
              silver_roman 26 December 2013 19: 44
              +5
              well, listen, it’s one thing to help the communist parties, and another thing is to use the notorious terrorists who kill children and women and at the same time talk about some kind of democracy.
              all is not without a sin, but there is a limit!
              1. Sharingan
                Sharingan 26 December 2013 22: 53
                0
                Quote: silver_roman
                well, listen, it’s one thing to help the communist parties, and another thing is to use the notorious terrorists,

                You are a naive person. One would think that the Soviet Union did not prepare and did not support terrorist groups, the very Palestinians who then blew up civilians in Israel.
                1. silver_roman
                  silver_roman 27 December 2013 01: 52
                  0
                  you know how they say: not proven, not a thief! do you have any reliable information?
                  and what is happening in the Middle East just personifies indifference to the opinion of the rest of the world community. The West is the same as what it looks like. If earlier, when mentioning double standards, conclusions were drawn, now these are empty words, to which they will not even pay attention!

                  Quote: Sharingan
                  One would think that the Soviet Union did not prepare and did not support terrorist groups, the very Palestinians who then blew up civilians in Israel.


                  Those. You want to say that under the sponsorship of the USSR hundreds of thousands of people were killed ??? don't talk nonsense and all the more you shouldn’t draw conclusions about me, because we didn’t drink at the brudershaft!
                  In addition, Israel with its Mosad has never been an ally to us, and even was an enemy. Syria did not blow into the beloved buildings of your beloved buildings, did not suit the attacks!
                  It is one thing to carry out a special operation in the rear undercover, it is another thing to demolish the country to hell, destroy hundreds of thousands of families. and it's not just Syria. As soon as the states leave the Middle East in the Asia-Pacific region, then everything will calm down there, and it will begin right at our side! will see!
  39. zyxerjdbx
    zyxerjdbx 26 December 2013 15: 43
    +1
    I’ll answer Romn to somehow say. Everyone needs to have something to talk about. And WE already have nothing to say. I mean the media. Closed-circuit power broadcasting in the HF and LW bands; closed Broadcasting in the HF band - what do we want?
  40. Alex
    Alex 26 December 2013 15: 46
    +3
    Quote: S-200
    when it feels like it, these "goat herders" will be poisoned like fleas, quietly, without noise and any humanism ...

    There were no ceremonies in Vietnam, and it arose specifically amers. And the only thing they did not try from the Viet Cong was, but the result is known to everyone ...
  41. mitya24
    mitya24 26 December 2013 16: 17
    +2
    In Tolkien's imperishable "The Lord of the Rings" many in the West tried to see the Russians in the orcs, and in Mordor, Moscow. The events of the "zero" years (Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, homo-orange revolutions) show who the real ORKI are. The parallels suggest themselves.
  42. mountain
    mountain 26 December 2013 16: 38
    +1
    To his surprise, he noticed that Europe no longer belongs to itself and, as the Americans have always succeeded. I don’t understand how NATO was going to fight with peoples of different mentality, or is it ever easier, as the younger ones are always at the forefront, and the older ones rule. If it goes on like this, then America itself would stay afloat, but what NATO will do in Europe if they begin is interpersonal problems, and they are already on the face.
  43. Altona
    Altona 26 December 2013 16: 40
    +3
    Quote: Sharingan
    Ura-patriot icteric propaganda is doing its job: the US military is already unprincipled, immoral and cowardly people. Although they have more than enough examples of personal heroism when two of them voluntarily went out against dozens of enemies.

    --------------------------
    We, too, also make alaverds, and much more ineptly ... All sorts of films like "James Bond-agent 007" and "Topgan", "Rocky-3" ... This is really not jaundiced propaganda, where Russian Ivan in a vest and a hat - a triukhe with half-down ears almost like a club by the barrel of a Kalashnikov assault rifle, and even after a bottle of vodka drunk in a valiant gulp? About two voluntarily against dozens of enemies, you bent a little ... At first, a dozen enemies are poured with everything they can, and then two can go out, or rather drive up to the "Bradley" and finish off the remnants of the M60 ... This is what I am in their movie about Iraq saw ...
  44. Altona
    Altona 26 December 2013 16: 49
    +2
    Quote: silver_roman
    It is customary to evaluate the state of the armed forces by the number of military equipment, the size of the army, and the equipment of personnel. But if you look from the other side: I don’t remember which NATO member country has an F-16 fleet of 50 aircraft, but there’s nothing to bombard! this was one of the main problems. Unless to hire a kamikaze.

    -------------------------------------
    In a pitiful 5-million Libya with a 25-strong army, practically all NATO (its elite part) released its entire stock of Tomahawks from submarines, which is about 187-200 units ... And that's all ... The presence of a long-term "no-fly zone "It was also questionable, since the expenses were incredible, the Italian bases became the main bases ... Everyone, in general, strained financially, so the" forces of good and justice "had no options but to quickly" wet "Gaddafi ...
    1. silver_roman
      silver_roman 26 December 2013 18: 06
      +2
      Well, from submarines, only the Americans could shoot a bullet with tomogavs. their "Ohio" are converted for this case. I'm not sure about the brit.
      I know that they pulled almost steel bars lol
      they would have fought a couple more weeks, they probably would have clung bricks to their suspension points to their attack aircraft))
  45. Altona
    Altona 26 December 2013 17: 02
    +2
    Quote: Sharingan
    Finland and Afghanistan are sovereign states. In both wars, the USSR pursued purely its geopolitical interests, ignoring either the norms of international law or the international community (for which it was expelled from the League of Nations). Doesn't it remind anyone?

    ------------------------------------------
    And what? I now sprinkle ashes on my head and fall to my knees in repentance, or will you say that my grandfather wasted the Finns in vain? I myself am a quarter Finn, I know very well that in that era everyone pursued "geopolitical" interests around the world. The Finns were offered an exchange, they did not agree. The disagreement of a weak country was then perceived as a desire to get a portion of Lyuli ... It was approximately according to this principle that the Germans and the Poles successfully rolled out timid, albeit armed to the teeth, Czechoslovakia, and much earlier than us ... Nazi Germany also arranged a "friendly" Anschluss of Austria. How would Adolf Aloizovich go to his beloved Linz to listen to the blackbirds, remember the smells of childhood? France was also crushed, but what about Bordeaux-Champagne, Parisian cocottes, Cote d'Azur? And we, with sweat and blood, took the swamps and taiga of sunny Karelia, where noisy Karelians live (at the rate of 2 people per square km), which "quiet and spakkoy suomiainenny" cannot stand ... So, like that, dear comrade ...
  46. edeligor
    edeligor 26 December 2013 17: 27
    +1
    but Assad also delivered a savory slap in the face to the presumptuous cowboy, knocking down an American F22 and four Tomahawk missiles
    I have not heard. Someone, throw a link to enlighten.
  47. Altona
    Altona 26 December 2013 17: 52
    +1
    Quote: Stiletto
    The States will burst - and this alliance will not survive for two minutes, torn apart by internal problems and contradictions.

    ---------------------------------------
    It all ends when the money runs out ... At least they have it for sure ... We already had it ...
  48. Arkan
    Arkan 26 December 2013 18: 32
    +1
    Even in droves, am, they failed to defeat the Afghans. It's trash, not warriors. Now the fortunate rod is in tan shaft, strictly according to quotas. Just before they saw them in Finnish, the cold climate of the north is not a problem for refugees.
  49. Stinger
    Stinger 26 December 2013 18: 46
    +1
    That's why it is NATO.
  50. alone
    alone 26 December 2013 19: 59
    +1
    It’s too early to write off NATO. It’s not for this that they created it, that suddenly it would just collapse.
    Only Gorbaty is capable of such a thing. And in order to break up NATO, it is necessary to work hard at the international level and not spare money for it.
    1. edeligor
      edeligor 26 December 2013 22: 03
      0
      NATO just doesn’t have to interfere, there are so many of them that they don’t know which of them spoke a minute ago. About this article and about the hegemony of the elder brother or the owner
      Doesn't remind of anything?
      Their Russophobia, hatred of everything that does not support their values, KILL ALL THEIR ORGANIZATION!