Military Review

China designs 110.000-ton "super-aircraft carrier" to compete with the US Navy

92
China designs 110.000-ton "super-aircraft carrier" to compete with the US Navy



China has announced the construction of an atomic aircraft carrier, reports ANI. The dimensions of the aircraft carrier will be large enough to compete with the largest US Navy aircraft carriers in the race of new systems weapons.

According to the China Daily, this news The Chinese website reported from sources in the "highest echelons of the People's Liberation Army." The aircraft carrier with a tonnage of 110.000 tons will be launched in 2020 year.

The news came at a time when tensions were rising in the South and East China Seas.

Reportedly, the design of the carrier will be based on the drawings of the atomic aircraft carrier of the former USSR with a displacement of 80000 tons capable of carrying 60 aircraft.
Originator:
http://news.yahoo.com/china-developing-11-0000-ton-39-super-aircraft-092729535.html
92 comments
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  1. soldat1945
    soldat1945 24 December 2013 07: 19
    +17
    There are two questions: how did the Chinese have the blueprints, apparently together with the magazine "Technology of Youth", and when will we have an aircraft carrier comparable to this in the region where so many interests intersect, and if there are specialists, tell me if there is a need for it?
    1. Ihrek
      Ihrek 24 December 2013 07: 26
      +1
      With such ambitions, they will tear their economy.
      1. Very old
        Very old 24 December 2013 07: 49
        +3
        From each yellow, one green - already ... "hell knows how much lemon!"

        I recommend the interested question:
        pravda.ru/politics/military/defence/1178160-avian-0
        1. ssergn
          ssergn 25 December 2013 05: 58
          0
          one and a half yar winked Yes
      2. mirag2
        mirag2 24 December 2013 07: 53
        +4
        Tear-tear.
        For some reason, Chinese nationalism and "rising from its knees" is expressed in a general gigantomania.
        I think it’s not size that matters, but efficiency.
        1. saturn.mmm
          saturn.mmm 24 December 2013 20: 49
          0
          Quote: mirag2
          what matters is not size but efficiency.

          This question was thought over when Ulyanovsk was created, the article says
          Reportedly, the design of the carrier will be based on the drawings of the atomic aircraft carrier of the former USSR with a displacement of 80000 tons capable of carrying 60 aircraft.
      3. VAS 84
        VAS 84 24 December 2013 09: 59
        0
        The Chinese "friends" have 3,5 TRILION dollars of gold reserves. Even if one aircraft carrier costs 50-100 billion dollars, they can afford 10 aircraft carriers.
        1. Canep
          Canep 24 December 2013 10: 37
          +1
          Quote: VAS 84
          The Chinese "friends" have 3,5 TRILION dollars of gold reserves.

          This while the dollar has value, if it collapses, then these gold reserves will be depreciated at a stroke, and they have 600 tons of gold, which is "only" 30 billion in modern prices. And if the Celestial Empire begins to drain its bucks, then they will definitely depreciate.
          1. VAS 84
            VAS 84 24 December 2013 11: 01
            +1
            Maybe in this way they want to reduce them a little, so that all gold reserves do not become garbage. We also provide assistance to the brothers from the stocks that are placed in American securities. As Popandopula said: "I feel that we are on the eve of a grandiose nix." smile
          2. Poruchik 90
            Poruchik 90 24 December 2013 11: 41
            +2
            Everything is much simpler, they have already stated that they don’t buy more the dollar and their securities, but will turn it all into gold. They have already set a goal for themselves and I think they will.
      4. zvereok
        zvereok 24 December 2013 12: 25
        0
        How much of our raw materials will be spent on this business ... Which is good in some way, but what goes cheap is already bad. Plus "Our raw materials", this is conditional, i.e. it is, as it were, ours, but at the same time mainly Deribaska and others like him. State companies are also "conditionally" state-owned.
      5. Rus2012
        24 December 2013 19: 02
        +1
        Quote: Jamal
        With such ambitions, they will tear their economy.

        they can simply turn debt announcements of mattresses into material in the form of AUGs ...
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Civil
      Civil 24 December 2013 07: 26
      +2
      We’ve already been explained a hundred times that there is no money for an aircraft carrier, there is no drill, there are no basing places. Therefore, the cost will be astronomical.
      1. GSH-18
        GSH-18 24 December 2013 07: 44
        +8
        Quote from the article: "The design of the carrier is reportedly based on blueprints for an 80000-ton nuclear-powered aircraft carrier of the former USSR, capable of carrying 60 aircraft."
        ====================================================================== =========
        It sounds like a slap in the face. An alien state of demand bases can easily use our military know-how to create its new serious weapon. And in the meantime, we continue to chew snot ... Some are probably still proud of how, according to our drawings, the world is arming itself against us. Where are the Russian carrier groups ??
        1. Greenwood
          Greenwood 24 December 2013 09: 17
          +13
          Quote: GSH-18
          Where are the Russian carrier groups ??
          Where the state that designed them is in the distant past, which ended 20 years ago.
        2. VAS 84
          VAS 84 24 December 2013 10: 13
          +1
          Maybe we need to build ships of the "PETER THE GREAT" class in a modern design, so that he could destroy the carrier group alone (including submarines)? Share your opinion sailors. hi
          1. Mairos
            Mairos 24 December 2013 13: 01
            0
            Ek, you swung. It will not destroy, it is basically beyond his power. Do you imagine the composition of the AUG? Learn materiel.))
          2. GSH-18
            GSH-18 26 December 2013 08: 00
            -1
            Quote: VAS 84
            Maybe we need to build ships of the "PETER THE GREAT" class in a modern design, so that he could destroy the carrier group alone (including submarines)?

            "Peter the Great" project 1144 "Orlan". Even with the best (fantastic) situation, he will not be able to withstand even one AUG. Look at the performance characteristics of the detection and attack ranges. A single "Orlan" will be easily detected and destroyed by carrier-based aircraft of an aircraft carrier long before an anti-ship missile salvo is approaching at a distance and receiving target designation. RF needs AUGs, otherwise we will sit in our territorial waters and limit ourselves to friendly visits. At the same time, the states actually use their aircraft carrier fleet in the oceans as a strong military-political argument and control the world's waters. China and India are striving to join them, building their aircraft carrier groups. Where are we on this list ??
        3. Petr1
          Petr1 24 December 2013 10: 23
          0
          And what are they for us? we, unlike the United States, do not plan to attack anyone so far, thank God. But the Chinese can be understood because they have nowhere to live, so long as they live on aircraft carriers, how to build 10 pieces and then open up new Chinese islands wink
          1. ssergn
            ssergn 25 December 2013 06: 06
            +1
            And you curious, find a map of the population density of China. Make sure they live where
      2. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 24 December 2013 08: 28
        +11
        Quote: Civil
        . Therefore, the cost will be astronomical.

        Looking at the Olympics, I have no doubt about it. If we build it, then the whole world will gasp from its price wassat
        1. GDP
          GDP 24 December 2013 11: 35
          +1
          In principle, when compared with the cost of ships of similar classes in the west, our cost is lower, and this is taking into account theft and kickbacks. The same Vikramaditya after all the revaluations of the cost, taking into account the air wing, cost 5 mlr dollars - not a high price for an aircraft carrier of this class ...
          1. zvereok
            zvereok 24 December 2013 12: 31
            +2
            Quote: GDP
            The same Vikramaditya


            Was it built from scratch?
        2. Rus2012
          24 December 2013 18: 54
          +1
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          If we build it, then the whole world will gasp from its price

          ... and the service will be commensurate with the price of the building, and the benefit is not higher than "Charles de Gaulle" ...
    4. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 24 December 2013 08: 26
      +5
      Quote: soldat1945
      how the drawings turned out to be from the Chinese,

      This is your rhetorical question, as I understand it and does not require an answer laughing
      Quote: soldat1945
      and when we have an aircraft carrier comparable to this

      Here, even if the new destroyers went to the Pacific Fleet, not to fat already request
    5. sergey72
      sergey72 24 December 2013 08: 56
      +3
      Quote: soldat1945
      how the drawings turned out to be from the Chinese,

      As how - which one to the top .... About "Ulyanovsk" cut with kakli on needles am forgot?
      1. VKabanov
        VKabanov 24 December 2013 10: 13
        +1
        Maybe the Russian Federation completed it? Why the hell to keep a bunch of metal unnecessary country?
        If the Ukrainian aircraft carrier stood on Sevmash in the same readiness, the same fate would await him.
    6. The comment was deleted.
    7. PSih2097
      PSih2097 24 December 2013 09: 01
      +4
      Quote: soldat1945
      tell me if there is a need for it?

      The need is only to cover the area of ​​the SSBN’s military alert (ensuring the combat stability of the naval component of the strategic nuclear forces), this is currently ...
      As for the drawings - this is the project 1143.7 ATAKR (heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser with a nuclear power plant) "Ulyanovsk",
      Quote: Civil
      no plane drlo

      The Chinese have - Yak-44, and not a layout like ours, but a flying one.
      But I think this one with the A-50 as an AWACS aircraft is more suitable:
      1. sergey72
        sergey72 24 December 2013 09: 34
        0
        Quote: PSih2097
        The Chinese have - Yak-44, and not a layout like ours, but a flying one.

        Where did he come from? It seems that the project was buried at the stage of full-scale layout, or am I mistaken? Clarify the question, if not difficult ..
      2. avg
        avg 24 December 2013 10: 38
        +3
        Quote: PSih2097
        But I think this one with the A-50 as an AWACS aircraft is more suitable:

        Obviously, is he taking off from Tiananmen Square? request
      3. Mairos
        Mairos 24 December 2013 13: 04
        +4
        A-50 is based on the IL-76. Do you know its mass-dimensional characteristics? For example, takeoff and landing - speed and take-off run (run)? Read ..)) http://www.planers32.ru/mc_16.html
        What deck should an aircraft carrier have?
    8. A.YARY
      A.YARY 24 December 2013 10: 22
      +3
      Uv Pavel
      You yourself can see how many "experts" in the naval doctrine to see prices on the site vomit bile at the word "AIRCRAFTER"! Do you think that there are fewer of them in the departments of the Ministry of Defense? They know best of all the GSSSSR what is needed by the current RUSSIA, as they assure everyone that "in the USSR, AIR CARRIERS NEVER BEEN"
      Although, as we all know, according to the doctrine in the USSR, it was planned to create at least EIGHT aircraft carriers, including atomic ones.
      Then these connoisseurs begin to "shoot bullets" in a different way.
      Like "you see, these plans ate so much money that the financial collapse in the USSR began"
      Then it becomes clear to the idiot that these "experts" put the cart in front of the horse, but these "experts" do not care that they were caught lying (by the way, this is a sign of a skillful liar), they will be louder and more obsessive to bend their own.

      The USSR said - we need aircraft carriers!
      If RUSSIA wants to return the status "GREAT MARINE" - WILL NOT LEAVE WITHOUT AIRLINE CARRIERS!
      1. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm 24 December 2013 21: 14
        +1
        Quote: A.YARY
        The USSR said - we need aircraft carriers!

        And he began to build them, in the photo (clickable) constructed building AB "Ulyanovsk" 79000 tons for 70 aircraft units.
        Soon the Chinese will have this, and we will all decide whether to continue Vasilyeva’s house arrest, and in which countries it is better for governors to build houses.

        For those who claimed on the site that the USSR did not have modular construction technologies.
        Nuclear aircraft carrier "Ulyanovsk" in 1989-91. on the slipway it was mounted as follows: the main volume 260 m long was built on the right half, and its bow, 65 m long, was built next to it, on the left. But these mega-cranes just carried out the installation of large-block sections weighing 300-900 tons. To the assembly site of the modules themselves, special car trailers brought smaller parts of the aircraft carrier, weighing from 100 to 200 tons. Space for such an assembly is reserved from the side of the "bow" construction.
      2. GSH-18
        GSH-18 26 December 2013 08: 24
        -1
        Quote: A.YARY
        The USSR said - we need aircraft carriers!
        If RUSSIA wants to return the status "GREAT MARINE" - WILL NOT LEAVE WITHOUT AIRLINE CARRIERS!

        I support. +
    9. GDP
      GDP 24 December 2013 11: 37
      +1
      There is one more question - how the strengthening of the Chinese fleet will affect the combat capabilities of our Pacific fleet ...
      1. Rus2012
        26 December 2013 10: 59
        0
        Quote: GDP
        There is one more question - how the strengthening of the Chinese fleet will affect the combat capabilities of our Pacific fleet ...

        According to many of our morimans, it will intensify!
        For joint exercises and campaigns are already being held.
        We learn from the same textbooks and from some teachers, even the traditions and form are almost the same!
    10. sledgehammer102
      sledgehammer102 24 December 2013 11: 37
      0
      Quote: soldat1945
      and when we have an aircraft carrier comparable to this in a region where so many interests intersect,

      Well, actually, why do we need an aircraft carrier there?
      Just explain the purpose and mission that he will fulfill there? Is it worth the resources that will be spent on the creation of the AUG to the detriment of the same Boreas, Warsaw and, in general, all armaments? There was not a single conflict where the aircraft carrier would play a key role. In Iraq, the vast majority of sorties were made from land, from airfields.
      Well, at the worst, we have our own TAKR Kuzya, with whom we probably mess more because of the lack of infrastructure for it
    11. Rus2012
      24 December 2013 19: 00
      0
      Quote: soldat1945
      and if there are experts tell me if there is a need for it?

      ... if you have a full room of people, flowering, growing multiplying. And the economy is amazing in its growth throughout the world. All the people - well-groomed, rich, honors you as a sovereign. And all the gold of the world is sailing into your bins. And you, plus everything else, print color pictures to serve the entire financial world ...
      Then you definitely need AUGs to position yourself and so that the rest do not forget who is the boss in the world :))))
      1. alone
        alone 24 December 2013 19: 33
        +1
        what I am sure that in 2020 we will see him. The Chinese have words and actions that do not yet diverge. They know how to work for their state. It’s enviable
    12. BB2117
      BB2117 4 January 2014 06: 02
      0
      Quote: soldat1945
      How did the Chinese get the blueprints?

      Just like they, the Chinese, turned out to be the aircraft carrier Liaolin ("Varyag"), or how the Indians turned out to be the aircraft carrier Wickrimaditya (our "Admiral Gorshkov").

      Quote: soldat1945
      When will we have an aircraft carrier comparable to this?

      I'd like to answer: “Never-yes”, but I will say this: “The construction of large aircraft-carrying vessels has now been recognized as unpromising in view of: firstly, their long-term commissioning (by 2025 they will be obsolete); secondly, the lack of appropriate production capabilities; and finally, economically and technically, it’s much easier and faster to build several ships of a different type, which in principle will have a much greater tactical, therefore, strategic effect. ”
  2. Civil
    Civil 24 December 2013 07: 19
    +8
    Drawings from Nikolaev, of course.
  3. Shadowcat
    Shadowcat 24 December 2013 07: 20
    +2
    Well ... the measurement began ahem aircraft carriers ...
  4. Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 24 December 2013 07: 20
    +4
    will be based on the drawings of the atomic carrier of the former USSR
    Who would doubt that. It’s not good that they are arming at our side.
  5. Ihrek
    Ihrek 24 December 2013 07: 23
    0
    They never built any aircraft carriers. And here they want to build such a colossus. It is unlikely that alone they will be able to produce something of high quality.
    1. yehat
      yehat 24 December 2013 11: 21
      0
      I would order construction in South Korea on the site of the Chinese, or at least cooperate with them. There is vast experience in the construction of large ships and the best shipyards in the world. And Aviks are being built there in series.
      1. GDP
        GDP 24 December 2013 11: 38
        +1
        I would order construction in South Korea on the site of the Chinese, or at least cooperate with them

        South Korea is a potential enemy. Especially now. Specific threats are already being exchanged between the two countries.
        There is a real struggle between them over sea and air borders and there is a strong suspicion that in this case the United States will merge these allies, as the West used to be - Poland ...
        It is unlikely that Koreans will help the Chinese build something against themselves ...
    2. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 24 December 2013 21: 21
      0
      Quote: Jamal
      It is unlikely that alone they will be able to produce something of high quality.

      They can, they want this and this is the main thing for them, and not another trip to Egypt.
  6. alex56
    alex56 24 December 2013 07: 30
    +1
    Not knowing how for anyone, but let me build it for me. And tear yourself up.
    Such projects in the above privacy, and the arms race in general, are exhausting the economy. Launching the USA and China butting. And we will stand aside, take a look and wait.
    The main thing for us is to get too carried away by ourselves. But it is important to keep up.
    1. alex-s
      alex-s 24 December 2013 09: 42
      +3
      You just can’t wait, you need to modernize your armed forces! And as quickly as possible!
  7. tungus
    tungus 24 December 2013 07: 35
    +11
    They said that China would build analogues of Liaoning. How can you build an aircraft carrier for 100000 tons, especially a nuclear one, without having the experience of creating them, without having a school, the practice of building such ships? The entire achievement of China in this field is the completion of the Varyag.
    I can still believe that they are able to copy our 1143.6 project, since there is a model. They may even be able to improve it by changing electronics and weapons. But to create from scratch a new ship with a displacement twice the size of the sample is from the realm of fantasy. The USSR has been moving towards this for decades, starting with helicopter carriers and gradually increasing and improving ships, gaining experience and developing a school. And here, from a clean slate.
    Even if all the documentation for the Ulyanov was sold to China, it is still not a Toyota to copy. They cannot do their own long-range bomber, there is still no normal nuclear submarine, and then nuclear aircraft carriers will begin to rivet, yeah.
    1. Odysseus
      Odysseus 24 December 2013 07: 41
      +1
      Quote: tungus
      They said that China would build analogs of Liaoning.

      This is until 2020. And nuclear after it.
    2. Alexey
      Alexey 24 December 2013 07: 43
      +6
      There is no fundamental difference of 60000 or 110000t. More expensive, yes. But basically no more complicated. Specialized equipment is essentially the same. Less skepticism, all that China needs to do this is quite capable of creating.
      1. tungus
        tungus 24 December 2013 10: 39
        +1
        Capable. Years in ... twelve. And what does "no difference" mean? It may not make a difference for a barge, and even then, not everyone can build some kind of tanker with a capacity of 100 thousand tons. And here is a warship.
        If there is no difference, why did the USSR fail to create such a thing? After all, we built heavy aircraft-carrying cruisers, in the amount of 45-50 thousand tons. It would seem, increase the displacement by two, put a reactor instead of boilers, and that's it. However, 18 years have passed from the start of construction of the aircraft carrier "Kiev" to the start of construction of "Ulyanovsk". And at the heart of "Ulyanovsk" is the same project 1143. And this is in the USSR, a country with the strongest military industry and science.
        China has mastered the construction of submarines perfectly. Why are there no normal nuclear submarines? Based on your logic, what prevents you from increasing the displacement of the Varshavianka and installing the reactor? Nothing? So why hasn't China done this and doesn't have an adequate nuclear submarine fleet?
        China has no experience creating something of its own. They can only copy. And even then, these copies are worse than the original.
        The USSR also copied a lot, but then he creatively processed these copies, developed them, and based on them did something different, not similar to the original. And China is stamping in Xerox mode. What prevents him from the same SU-27 to develop and develop? No, he wants to buy SU-35 as a sample. Because, there is no something to develop.
        So it is with an aircraft carrier. He will be able to copy the Varyag. The characteristics will be worse than those of the same Vikramaditya, but it will do. But to develop the project, no. Not in the coming years.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  8. makarov
    makarov 24 December 2013 07: 36
    +3
    And why is it so weak, only a 110.000-ton “super-aircraft carrier”, according to Chinese morality, you need a 310.000-ton “hyper-aircraft carrier” in order to immediately catch up and overtake, and then the Olympics can be held on it regardless of the time of year .. fellow
  9. Odysseus
    Odysseus 24 December 2013 07: 37
    +4
    Sweet news. Americans like it)))
    In general, it’s logical, first, the completion of the Varyag / Liaonin, then the construction of two aircraft carriers a la Liaoning, but most likely with a steam catapult (already under construction), and then the atomic aircraft carrier a la Ulyanovsk with an electromagnetic catapult.
    The first 3 aircraft carriers will put the J-15, and on the atomic one the marine modification of the 5th generation fighter.
  10. negeroi
    negeroi 24 December 2013 07: 39
    +4
    The USSR alone, or the whole world in 10 years created itself an industrial giant? Given that before that, Russia was not just an agrarian country, that is. I didn’t have a skilled worker, but even a backward agrarian country, not having qualified peasants who annually went hungry and couldn’t feed themselves. Not to mention technology and technological culture. Where did the USSR take all these wonders?

    Now China is much more powerful and stronger than the USSR of the 29-40s, both in technology and in the economy and quality of the proletarians.
    1. velikoros-xnumx
      velikoros-xnumx 24 December 2013 11: 03
      +3
      Quote: negeroi
      Where did the USSR take all these miracles?

      No, of course, sleep ... from Mozambique.
    2. Zeus
      Zeus 24 December 2013 11: 21
      -1
      Oh yes, it is so "stronger" that it is not able to design its own advanced weapons, it licks everything off other people's developments. China, unlike the USSR, is a product of the United States, the market in the United States will collapse - narrow-eyed people will die in hundreds of thousands.
      1. negeroi
        negeroi 24 December 2013 14: 30
        0
        Exactly !!! It’s so much stronger. We were not able to do it in any condition at all, and bought projects and specialists in packs, because we didn’t have ours, and there were no specialists. We cultivated them, and we brought them to mind already during the war. With you, China is licking, and licking is necessary not only to be able to, but also to have the technology, but with all this, China has already grown its engineers and workers. Well, and what licks? What does it change? And we lick and lick. You say that China invented espionage and copying. All the powers are head to head. An institute has been created in the USA, an entire institute is analyzing what we have plundered, we have been digging wherever we can, starting from a nuclear bomb, now we don’t even disdain lighters .But China can shoulder not only lick but also build. Why the hell is it that we steal someone’s secret if there are no factories and workers? But China has ANY industry. Well, maybe the ballet hasn’t been worked out yet. And we in ballet a long time ago not the first.

        And why should the market in the USA collapse? If the market in the USA collapses ... If my grandmother had a member, she would be called grandfather. In the meantime, China is not just a competitor to us, but also a potential enemy of Namba van. If only because the United States ready to pit them with us, as we used to pit with Germany.
        1. Zeus
          Zeus 24 December 2013 17: 21
          0
          I didn’t say "if the US market crashes," it will crash, a matter of time. And it collapses with the fact that the population has no money. First, it is credited up to the tonsils, all property, including houses and apartments, is mortgaged. Second, every year US consumers receive subsidies, that is, handouts, from the US government in the amount of $ 3 trillion. Thirdly, since due to full debt load, the credit policy to support demand does not work, demand began to fall. Fourthly, the emission subsidy program this year stopped working, since in the financial markets through which these funds are redistributed to consumers, this unsecured money is being cut in favor of the liberal part of the US elite. Therefore, this year, various parts of the US elite have been dogging themselves for a month about the continuation of the emission program. And according to the latest news from the Fed, they began to cut emissions. Bottom line: US demand is already falling, the US economy is falling. If you want to discuss the economic crisis in more detail, please visit the forum http://worldcrisis.ru/ There they will explain the reasons for the global crisis in even more detail.
          With regard to scientific and technical achievements. Unlike China, we did not copy purchased Western samples. We looked at the principles of their work and, based on the knowledge gained, did our work. Or can you list the technical devices copied from Western samples produced by our industry, like our fighters and air defense systems in China, and more? And about science. Do you know when the Academy of Sciences was established in Russia? You would at least look at the list of Russian and Soviet scientists of that time and the scientific work they carried out. Chemistry and physics are especially impressive. So we had technologies in order to create our own, on the basis of knowledge obtained from Western samples, and not that China, for how many years has been "communist", but still produces copies of foreign technology, only the name changes.
          1. negeroi
            negeroi 24 December 2013 19: 58
            0
            . If you want to discuss the economic crisis in more detail, please visit the forum http://worldcrisis.ru/ There they will explain in more detail the causes of the global crisis.

            If you explain them, then I myself can a couple without leaving the place, and the link is incomprehensible. Do you think they are only discussing there, and or only there they know about everything? No one, no country in the world has money. The population is uncontrolled inflation. Therefore, there are various schemes and mechanisms for withdrawing money, and not the garbage that you quoted as voluptuous words, not understanding what they really mean. Or at least not take it as work, read the Stalinist finance minister Zvereva, there about this in detail and at an affordable level, the book is thin.

            "The bottom line: US demand is already falling, the US economy is falling."

            You probably go to that site too often. And you have to listen to the news with your own ears. The US Economy is GROWING. I monitor the stock market every day and I don’t have to pour nonsense into my ears, let alone give out white for black. Try not to sleep on the economic news block, RBC or Russia 24, they chew it by pouring propaganda. I don’t say anything about Bloomberg and others, I understand it myself, they sound like curses.

            . We, unlike China, did not copy Western purchased samples. We looked at the principles of their work and based on our knowledge we did our work.

            I don’t even know what to say. What are you talking about? We copied stupidly in the 30s and 40s before riveting. I will not talk about the Russian Brand, not in time. And our Korolev is Werner von Braun, before riveting! As China did not so long ago. Everyone is doing it, and it is NORMAL. And stupid to talk. Academy of Sciences? I just know, and I know not recently. By the way, by the number of scientific papers, as well as the number of patents. China has not even bypassed Russia, but dusted it by flying past , and now the point is on the horizon.
            What are you talking about? Tales of some kind. Are you a racist? What does China displease you with? They do everything as they can, yet Britain, before becoming the sovereign of the seas, copied technologies, accumulated engineers, money, etc. .d .. the United States to become what they began to copy and buy. There is nothing to talk about or argue about.
            1. Zeus
              Zeus 24 December 2013 21: 25
              0
              not the bullshit that you quoted


              On what grounds do you say that I quoted this? These are my own words.
              And since in your opinion this is garbage, in theory you should have your own explanation of the global crisis. Spell out!

              not realizing what they really mean


              This is pure slander.

              Do you think they are only discussing there, and or only there they know about everything?


              At least on that resource there is the only theory of the crisis that fully explains it.

              The US economy is GROWING. I monitor the stock market every day


              Official statistics cannot be trusted; it makes the figures that the government needs. And besides that, the United States, every time GDP growth slowed down or stopped, they began to adjust the method of calculating their GDP so that the new GDP calculation method was higher than with the old method of calculating goods and services produced. The last time it was in June of this year, they introduced R&D costs into the methodology for calculating GDP.

              Try not to sleep on the economic news block


              Sorry, but I didn’t ask for your advice.

              We copied stupidly to rivets in the 30s and 40s. I will not talk about the Russian Brand, not at the time. And our Korolev is Werner von Braun, before rivets!


              That is, we began to fly into space on the FAU-2, and fought on "tigers" and "panthers"?

              By the way, by the number of scientific papers, as well as the generation of patents. China did not even go around Russia, but dusted it by flying past


              And why in this case new technologies appear not in China, but in the USA? Why, then, the Chinese do not use their technology to develop their technology, but copy others?

              Are you a racist? What did China displease you with?


              There is nothing to do with racism, China didn’t please me because it has a long-term plan to shift its border to our territory, which doesn’t suit me at all, and therefore I treat China as a rival of my country, and a supporter of the attitude towards China an appropriate policy was pursued.

              Britain, before becoming the mistress of the seas, copied technology, accumulated engineers, money, etc. .. to become what they began to copy and buy.


              Britain, the United States, like many other Western European states, robbed other countries in order to become what they are. They robbed and killed, carried out the genocide of many peoples and took out the wealth created by these peoples.

              What are you talking about? Tales of some sort.


              A completely liberal statement.

              There is nothing to talk about or argue about.


              Forums exist for discussion. They go to them in order to "speak". But I am not going to impose on you with my conversations, you do not want to "say" whatever you want.
              1. negeroi
                negeroi 25 December 2013 02: 09
                0
                "Britain, the United States, like many other Western European states, to become what they are, plundered other countries. They robbed and killed, carried out genocide of many peoples and took away the wealth created by these peoples."

                Um, are you talking about copying elephant riding technology? And what about high technology?


                "That is, we began to fly into space on the FAU-2, and fought on" tigers "and" panthers "?

                Exactly! Our space began with exact copies of V-2, and they fought on tigers .. - this is already twitching. I did not want to touch Kalashnikov, but in "his" weapons group there was Schmeiser. And Schmeiser has a product for a number of units and mechanisms painfully reminiscent ...


                And for some reason Korolev made his product No. 1 similar to a "baby" to rivet.

                "Sorry, but I didn't ask for your advice."

                And here you are right. Sorry. Hmm, but it wasn’t the first I started sending it :)


                "Quite a liberal-style statement." I am not close either in essence or in spirit to the liberal ideology, but children's accusations or labels do not float at all. Whoa, call me a member. By the way, I'm still a racist. So say a scientific racist, and sexual, I don't like black women. A racist not in terms of superiority of some others, and in the question of the emergence of races and my racism, the classical racists will not like much, because it is based on material artifacts of the Neanderthal culture, which classical racists just consider subhuman. True, the general public does not know the postulates of the theory I profess, but here ... in short, another topic is needed that By the way, there is an explanation for the technological achievements of individual peoples and lands. And China is an outsider, despite its erectus, then Bish Sinanthropa. But the leaders are still not the United States. The United States buys, China steals. On a global scale and for a long period of time , technology leaders .. I will not name it, this is really a separate topic. And in a short-term consideration, say in 2 centuries, China is no worse than others, is no different, Normal copying, as everyone interrupts each other.

                As for the economy. Yes, put on official statistics, as if only official analysis systems exist. Mass media always lie, business and government only partly, how to lie to those who do business and politics, and no worse than state experts understand the issue ?. The United States may not be in chocolate, but there is no reason to panic. The system has been working and will work for a very long time, neither China nor the United States or the European Union are ready to fight for the New World Order, and therefore will keep the old. All economists in the world are strong in chewing what happened, everyone has diplomas. Only real businessmen have buttons and politicians, and they never share their plans with anyone. And it’s not necessary to talk about NA forecasts. But the United States looks too good for a dying man. 80 years ago, as an experiment. But the experiment was successful, and state subsidies and subsidies did not ruin the United States, neither then nor now. The USA again raped the whole world, forcing to pay for their pieces of paper, and you say that they have everything to do Lo: They have a lot of problems, but who does not have them?

                Continue? :)
                1. Zeus
                  Zeus 25 December 2013 15: 38
                  0
                  Um, are you talking about copying elephant riding technology? And what about high technology?


                  High technology high only for contemporaries. At that time, both the compass and the quadrant were new technologies, and science in Western Europe began to take shape after the feudal system began to crumble and these ki began to rob Asia and then America, and the little girls also robbed the Spaniards who carried the loot themselves. And only then, at the dawn of capitalism, when the bourgeoisie itself rebelled against the church in the name of unwillingness to share the dough with it, the church could no longer crush science.
                  Without robberies, these creatures would have lived in their primitive communal system. They even learned to wash from the Byzantines. Dirty, greedy barbarians. As were cattle, so cattle still remain.

                  Exactly! Our space began with replicas of the V-2


                  Korolev’s appearance was similar to the FAU-2 only the first three missiles: P1, P2, P5, but only similar, all four missiles were even TTX different. And our space began with the seven P7, and this is a completely different rocket. This is where the application of our science and technology lies. The V-2 was taken for research, but we designed our missiles to improve the technology we received with our technologies. This is the fundamental difference with copying.

                  And they fought on tigers ..- this is a distortion.

                  So, you didn’t specify what exactly we copied. But by the way, with tanks the same topic as with missiles.

                  I didn’t want to touch Kalashnikov, but Schmeiser was in "his" weapons group. there is a product on a number of nodes and mechanisms painfully resembling ...


                  And not only Schmeiser, there are a few more machines from razor Soviet designers who painfully resemble AK. If you argue in such categories, so out and aircraft from different countries of the same generations are similar to each other. Not the same, but similar! Su-27, MiG-29, F-15 are similar. T-50, F-22, F-35 are also similar. And in the automotive industry there are also similarities in person and in ships. This is a consequence of the fact that the laws of nature act equally on everyone, and a person creates technical devices on the basis of the laws of nature. And different generations of products demonstrate that level of knowledge of laws for the period of creation of products.

                  but it’s not I who first started sending that


                  I did not send you, I invited you. Welcome or welcome.

                  how to lie to those who themselves do business and politics, and no worse than state experts understands the issue?


                  Just the US officials are these businessmen who, at the time of their post, have only officially ceased to do business, or are direct lobbyists of businessmen and, after retiring from their posts, occupy some good position in the state corporation. A complete copy of the Senate of Ancient Rome. The Senate in Latin is the advice of the elders. Only the Romans had these elders as slaveholders, and in the USA they are businessmen lobbying for the interests of business. What common decision they come to, such is US policy. For example, with Bush and Cheney, grandmas were invested in the oil industry in CA. But the war in Iraq and Afghanistan met not only their interests, but also the interests of other influential people. Otherwise, Bush and Cheney lost their job just like both Kennedy.
                2. Zeus
                  Zeus 25 December 2013 15: 39
                  0
                  The system works and will work for a very long time, neither China nor the United States or the European Union are ready to fight for the New World Order, and therefore they will keep the old one.


                  What are they doing right now? Already since 2011. The most telling example is the U-turn of US foreign policy in the Middle East - Syria, Iran. And this is a consequence of the split of the world elite into parts. Some realized that capitalism is no longer a tenant, while others continue to fight for the old world order. This has already happened in history with the change of order. Each shift was accompanied by a class struggle and social restructuring of society. Those feudal lords who realized that the feudal system had become obsolete, became bourgeois and fought against the Catholic Church and those feudal lords who fought for the feudal system. And with capitalism as well. The system does not change quickly. It takes one or two centuries. The agony of capitalism went to the second century. All the wars of the twentieth century are a struggle to preserve capitalism, which has ceased to meet the interests of society.

                  But the US looks too good for a dying man.


                  Awesome good. There are more unemployed than the population of Ukraine and their number is growing. Revenues are falling, the number of homeless people is growing, and GDP is falling.

                  and state subsidies and subsidies did not ruin the United States

                  So imagine the state of the economy that the rich began to easily distribute money to the poor. When has this ever happened? They are ready to strangle a penny. In a healthy economy, such emission pumping is not needed by any unsecured dough. The United States will become a regional power, at least for the time of its hard collapse so accurately. But as the end of the past and the beginning of this century shows, the global hegemony of one state is not viable.
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  11. Christian
    Christian 24 December 2013 07: 40
    +11
    Chinese hunveibins can easily turn bayonets against us! No wonder they issue such cards for students -
    1. I am
      I am 24 December 2013 07: 51
      0
      it is necessary to apply the mining of the border with China's tactical charges and just let it slip !!!!
    2. Odysseus
      Odysseus 24 December 2013 07: 58
      +3
      Quote: Christian
      Chinese hunveibins can easily turn bayonets against us!

      Theoretically, of course they can: it's just not clear why?
      From an economic, geopolitical point of view, expansion into Burma, for example, is more important for the PRC than expansion into Russia.
      I'm not talking about the fact that we still have more than 2500 nuclear warheads.
      PS By the way, Taiwan, and not China, has territorial claims on Mongolia and part of Russia.
    3. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 24 December 2013 08: 17
      -1
      Quote: Christian
      Chinese hunveibins can easily turn bayonets against us! No wonder they issue such cards for students -

      Captain inadequacy fellow
      Why are you not asleep? Does your mind boil indignant? wink
      You will be surprised, but I absolutely agree with you about this card. yes  
      During the reign of Mao put forward a global goal: "We must conquer the globe ... In my opinion, our globe is most important, where we will create a powerful state." Here is a list of “lost territories”: Burma, Laos, Vietnam, Nepal, Bhutan, northern India, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Korea, the Ryukyu Islands, 300 islands of the South China, East China and Yellow Seas, Kyrgyzstan, South Kazakhstan, Afghan Badakhshan province, Mongolia, Transbaikalia and the south of the Far East up to Okhotsk. “Lost territories” amount to more than 10 million square meters. km This exceeds the territory of China (9,6 million sq. Km). No other state in the world makes such claims. Nowadays, these claims are not declared in the foreign policy arena, but are voiced inside the PRC, but this approach has remained to history.
      I'll even give you a plus repeat
      laughing
      1. Christian
        Christian 24 December 2013 10: 02
        0
        Eh, Judas ... What to take from you ...
        1. And Us Rat
          And Us Rat 24 December 2013 12: 25
          -3
          Quote: Christian
          Eh, Judas ... What to take from you ...

          I’m an atheist, how many times do you need to repeat, dunce wassat
          1. Christian
            Christian 24 December 2013 13: 26
            0
            Believe in Christ the Savior! You remove part of the curse from your people and you yourself will be happy!
            1. And Us Rat
              And Us Rat 24 December 2013 14: 32
              +1
              Quote: Christian
              Believe in Christ the Savior! You remove part of the curse from your people and you yourself will be happy!

              Primitive, and boring, understanding of GOD absolutely everyone modern religions - the idea is even more absurd than ant understanding of quantum physics. The insolence of trying to explain GOD from the mouth of a person is nonsense. Do you take the liberty of claiming that you know the motives for the actions of GOD ?! This is ignorance, GOD is a priori an unexplained person.
              Religion is an arrogant and ridiculous attempt to embrace the immensity! negative
              1. Christian
                Christian 24 December 2013 14: 45
                +1
                And we don’t explain God (Orthodox)! He Himself was on Earth, in Ancient Judea, in particular. Your ancestors communicated with him, by the way many believed in him as the Messiah promised by all the ancient prophets of Israel and were saved. He himself told about himself, true Faith, True God. Why should we add anything? Just believe, and you will be happy in this life and inherit eternal life.
                1. And Us Rat
                  And Us Rat 24 December 2013 15: 02
                  +1
                  Quote: Christian
                  And we don’t explain God (Orthodox)! He Himself was on Earth, in Ancient Judea, in particular. Your ancestors communicated with him, by the way many believed in him as the Messiah promised by all the ancient prophets of Israel and were saved. He himself told about himself, true Faith, True God. Why should we add anything? Just believe, and you will be happy in this life and inherit eternal life.

                  I told you as something that I am - to be precise - an agnostic. I believe in God, I do not believe in rituals, freeloaders (in the form of priests, mullahs and rabbis) who seek power through religion over weak (and therefore easily inclined to fanatical) minds. Faith is in the heart, but in religious books - delirium and heresy. A STRONG and SMART person does not need any conventions, rules, restrictions "like from above" to be elementary a GOOD PERSON, it is enough to have HONOR and WILL POWER. And Religions (not to be confused with faith) have brought more evil to the world than all thieves, rapists and murderers combined for all time. I despise cults and those who profit from them.
                  And yet - one should not try to shove God into the familiar framework explained by human words.
                  Any technology ahead of us in the era will seem to our contemporary - a miracle of the Lord. (A. Clark) - a reason to think
                  1. Christian
                    Christian 24 December 2013 19: 32
                    0
                    In vain ... But Christ came to save before others the Jewish people ... He loves you, and you deprive yourself of happiness to be with God who loves you! Although the prophecy says that Jews will turn to Jesus at the end of time! However, your lost tribesmen are waiting for the reconstruction of the 3 Temple and the transgression of the false messiah-antichrist into it ... 2000 years of delusion, bitterness throughout the world in a sense of exclusivity, suffering and persecution ... For what !?
                    1. And Us Rat
                      And Us Rat 25 December 2013 00: 08
                      +1
                      Quote: Christian
                      In vain ... But Christ came to save before others the Jewish people ... He loves you, and you deprive yourself of happiness to be with God who loves you! Although the prophecy says that Jews will turn to Jesus at the end of time! However, your lost tribesmen are waiting for the reconstruction of the 3 Temple and the transgression of the false messiah-antichrist into it ... 2000 years of delusion, bitterness throughout the world in a sense of exclusivity, suffering and persecution ... For what !?

                      Loves me? I am sincerely glad for him, send my regards from me, I can’t help with anything else, it’s corny to me NOT INTERESTING.
                      I am happy and self-sufficient with God and without the mediation of Religion - ANY. And I don’t see adequate reasons to change something.
                      The prophecies? Sorry - I can’t take all sorts of fairy tales about miracles seriously.
                      Quote: Christian
                      2000 years of delusion, bitterness all over the world in a sense of exclusivity, suffering and persecution ...

                      Not relevant. Especially for me - I do not feel any bitterness, nor exclusivity, nor persecution, I do not care what is in the past, I live looking to the future, starting from the present, and not bother with all kinds of nonsense. wink
                      PS - I am especially amused by the statements that "the Jews sold Christ", I do not remember that I would PERSONALLY sell someone, for me it is absurd request
                  2. saturn.mmm
                    saturn.mmm 24 December 2013 22: 01
                    +1
                    Quote: And Us Rat
                    Faith is in the heart, but in religious books - delirium and heresy. A STRONG and SMART person does not need any conventions, rules, restrictions "like from above" to be elementary a GOOD PERSON, it is enough to have HONOR and WILL POWER. And Religions (not to be confused with faith) have brought more evil to the world than all thieves, rapists and murderers combined for all time. I despise cults and those who profit from them.
                    And yet - one should not try to shove God into the familiar framework explained by human words.

                    I fully support, I have a similar worldview.
    4. Zeus
      Zeus 24 December 2013 11: 26
      0
      This is a long-term perspective - 50-60 years. Over the course of half a century, much will change, and the vast majority of consumers in China — the USA, the EU — will cease to be such. And when China loses almost all of its external demand, the question will be whether they can become a self-sufficient country or not and rest before the start of the last century. If they cannot invent their own technique and built the economy only thanks to technologies and factories displaced from the USA, then there are great doubts about their abilities. And then territorial claims from their narrow-eyed heads will fly out.
    5. Aleksandr222
      Aleksandr222 26 December 2013 10: 44
      +1
      If this was a Chinese work, then they would have included Vietnam and Korea in China. Linden.
  12. SIBIR38RUS
    SIBIR38RUS 24 December 2013 07: 48
    +6
    Such news is not at all encouraging .... WAIT! ... your mother .. By 2020, China will have atomic carriers and atomic carriers similar to poplars and yars at such a pace, and in our country, unfortunately, there are a lot of corrupt prostitutes in uniform. Therefore, I won’t be surprised if the Chinese analogs of Boreas and S-500 are added to the same plans ... we change military developments to Chinese consumer goods, felt-tip pens and toys made of stinking plastic. It's a shame but a fact ...
  13. saag
    saag 24 December 2013 07: 50
    -1
    Quote: Christian
    Chinese hunveibins can easily turn bayonets against us! No wonder they issue such cards for students -

    Russia needs to focus on robotics, let the Chinese with androids butt :-)
  14. saag
    saag 24 December 2013 07: 51
    0
    The main thing is that he then does not run into a mine ... during the Russo-Japanese War :-)
  15. Alexey Prikazchikov
    Alexey Prikazchikov 24 December 2013 07: 59
    +3
    Let these amers get together the main thing so that they don’t come to us.
    1. Yves762
      Yves762 24 December 2013 08: 14
      +1
      Unfortunately, recent history suggests the opposite: when the USSR and the USA "fought", they got into all the ebony, one way or another.
      IMHO, the need for the presence of AUG in batches (in the same APR) was proved by the Second World War.
    2. GSH-18
      GSH-18 24 December 2013 08: 18
      +4
      Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
      Let these amers get together the main thing so that they don’t come to us.

      And where are such guarantees? But the new maps of China are already being drawn ... And we will continue to amuse ourselves with the hope that the Chinese aircraft carriers (and aircraft carriers in general! wassat ) and the coolness of our new submarines. Some are convinced that the nuclear submarine is an ideal naval weapon, with which you can solve any military task, and do without aircraft carriers. Only the rest of the world doesn’t think so for some reason. The USA has 11! aircraft carriers and are going to build more. Why, if they are so inefficient, expensive and vulnerable ???
      1. Alexey Prikazchikov
        Alexey Prikazchikov 24 December 2013 08: 42
        -3
        The USA has 11! aircraft carriers and are going to build more


        The states have an economy of $ 15 trillion, while we have only 3 trillion gained.


        And where are such guarantees? But the new maps of China are already drawing ...


        No offense, but when I read this I understand one thing: fools in the Russian Federation are in store for 100 years ahead.

        The submarine is an ideal naval weapon with which you can solve any military task


        Well for uryakalok maybe ideal. But for normal people, this is just an asymmetric answer justified by our capabilities.

        And finally, if you really build aircraft carriers, then more than 5 RF tries to do it.
        1. GSH-18
          GSH-18 24 December 2013 08: 51
          +3
          Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
          Well for uryakalok maybe ideal. But for normal people, this is just an asymmetric answer justified by our capabilities.

          "Asymmetric answer" is a fairy tale for children of the younger group of kindergarten. Our capabilities far exceed your beliefs. Olympiad 1,3 trillion rubles. Where is the all-Russian crisis ?? belay
          Russia needs THREE fully equipped aircraft carrier groups — this is completely enough to adequately respond to modern threats and position military force in any geopolitically important region of the world for Russia yes
          1. Alexey Prikazchikov
            Alexey Prikazchikov 24 December 2013 18: 44
            0
            Olympiad 1,3 trillion rubles. Where is the all-Russian crisis ?? belay


            This investment in infrastructure, believe me, this money will then pay off many times. Especially there before the devastation was. They built roads from scratch, gas extended to many cities restored. The villages have resulted in a human form. And yes then all this WILL BRING A PERMANENT INCOME. But Augs, they will give impetus to industry and technology, but MONEY AND LOTS ARE NEEDED for their maintenance.

            Russia needs THREE fully equipped aircraft carrier groups - this is completely enough


            From 3 to 5. Just as long as one aircraft carrier in the sea another is served. Change is needed.
          2. The comment was deleted.
        2. Yves762
          Yves762 24 December 2013 09: 00
          +3
          Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
          But for normal people, this is just an asymmetric answer justified by our capabilities.

          Interestingly what French probably also thought hunching over at construction Maginot lines.
          However, divisions 1 SS Panzer Division "Leibstandart SS Adolf Hitler" did parade around Paris am .
          1. Alexey Prikazchikov
            Alexey Prikazchikov 24 December 2013 18: 46
            -3
            I wonder what the French probably also thought, hunching over the construction of the Maginot Line.
            However, the subdivisions of the 1st SS Panzer Division "Leibstandart SS Adolf Hitler" still paraded in Paris am ....


            Stop carrying garbage.
            1. Yves762
              Yves762 25 December 2013 03: 38
              +1
              Well yes .... easier to send than to think, right? .....
              1. Alexey Prikazchikov
                Alexey Prikazchikov 25 December 2013 05: 28
                -3
                I'm allergic to dullness.
                1. Yves762
                  Yves762 25 December 2013 21: 47
                  +1
                  Quote: Alexey Prikazchikov
                  I'm allergic to dullness.

                  And how do you stand yourself ???
                  Empty.
                  You just have an inflated PSV. From the opera where the bearer of the type is D'Artagnan, and all the rest are Achtungs.
                  There was no sense in wasting time on YOU ....
                  1. Alexey Prikazchikov
                    Alexey Prikazchikov 26 December 2013 01: 38
                    -2
                    Well here are the goodies.
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      3. Yves762
        Yves762 24 December 2013 08: 45
        +3
        Quote: GSH-18
        Some are convinced that the nuclear submarine is an ideal naval weapon, with which you can solve any military problem, and do without aircraft carriers. But the rest of the world doesn’t think so for some reason.

        German submarines, although having drunk quite a bit of blood, could neither block the Foggy, nor stop the Arctic convoys.
        1. Guun
          Guun 24 December 2013 09: 48
          +2
          Duc Enigmu was intercepted and covered with a copper basin, and the Germans drowned the vessels with a bang, they only built ships at such a rate that it was impossible to drown everyone.
          1. VKabanov
            VKabanov 24 December 2013 10: 16
            -1
            + Asdick. Wolves have no chance left.
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        3. yehat
          yehat 24 December 2013 11: 39
          +4
          2 fleets with a total number of about 8-9 million people fought against German submarines: hundreds of escort ships, including about 80 (!) escort aircraft carriers, naval bases, patrol airship and aircraft service, direction finding stations, hunter cruisers, submarines , trap vessels, squadrons of torpedo bombers and fighters (against the FW-200 Condor), used revolutionary means of location, direction finding and ASDIC and struggled to defeat, losing millions of sunken displacement.
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  16. andrey682006
    andrey682006 24 December 2013 08: 28
    -2
    There was an article on the site in which Americans argue about the size of the new aircraft carrier - that it needs to be made smaller (and cheaper).
    And the Chinese will make goliaths ...
  17. ed65b
    ed65b 24 December 2013 08: 49
    +1
    Citizens do not see cards for idiots. In every country in the world there are similar ones. Now what is it to crap one's pants every time ??? And China wants to build, let it build, see what happens, in any case, declares does not mean to do
    1. Per se.
      Per se. 24 December 2013 09: 35
      +3
      Quote: ed65b
      Citizens do not see cards for idiots. In every country in the world there are similar ones. Now what is it to crap one's pants every time ???
      Of course, of course ... We sell the Globe of Moscow, but, here, there are no maps with other people's territories. Finally, to hell with them, these maps, where does the optimism come from in relation to China, its "peacefulness"? A country that officially has territorial claims to all neighbors, moreover, the total territory of their claims exceeds the modern area of ​​China itself, by definition, cannot be considered harmless, especially when it is actively arming at our doorstep. If you continue to be touched by their "friendship", then soon they will not start selling the globes of Moscow, but the globes of China, and this will no longer be a joke.
      1. ed65b
        ed65b 24 December 2013 21: 29
        0
        Quote: Per se.
        Quote: ed65b
        Citizens do not see cards for idiots. In every country in the world there are similar ones. Now what is it to crap one's pants every time ???
        Of course, of course ... We sell the Globe of Moscow, but, here, there are no maps with other people's territories. Finally, to hell with them, these maps, where does the optimism come from in relation to China, its "peacefulness"? A country that officially has territorial claims to all neighbors, moreover, the total territory of their claims exceeds the modern area of ​​China itself, by definition, cannot be considered harmless, especially when it is actively arming at our doorstep. If you continue to be touched by their "friendship", then soon they will not start selling the globes of Moscow, but the globes of China, and this will no longer be a joke.
        Tajiks with Uzbeks occupy us faster. So it will not be up to China.
  18. runway
    runway 24 December 2013 09: 17
    +7
    Does China have no experience building such ships? But everything is once done for the first time .... Taking into account the fact that the Chinese economy comes out on top in the world, they have no problems building their most high-tech products. Recent achievements in the implementation of their Space Program confirms this.
    With the growth of China's capabilities, its ambitions will grow. And who was hoping for something else?
  19. tomket
    tomket 24 December 2013 09: 19
    +1
    as I understood it is a bloated "Ulyanovsk"?
  20. Chukcha
    Chukcha 24 December 2013 09: 48
    +2
    I’m wondering if there is a dispute on the forums in China - do China need aircraft carriers or not?
    1. avant-garde
      avant-garde 24 December 2013 10: 27
      +2
      Quote: Chukcha
      I’m wondering if there is a dispute on the forums in China - do China need aircraft carriers or not?

      there I think the leadership will not be spoiled, said it is necessary it means it is necessary, under the peak and forward.
  21. Altona
    Altona 24 December 2013 09: 48
    +2
    As I understand it, this monster will be the flagship of the AUG for the protection of the Strait of Malacca if something happens ... In addition, such a toy is always needed to demonstrate strength to equal opponents, this is the Navy of India, Japan and the USA ... If they decided to bookmark this ship, then probably the infrastructure is being prepared ... In general, despite peaceful assurances, China is building up offensive strike power ...
    Comparison with yesterday's article about Chinese BZHRK inspired: "How steamers sail away, not at all like trains ... Slow sea waters are not like rails in two rows ...")))
    1. yehat
      yehat 24 December 2013 12: 00
      +1
      China just needs control over the coastal regions.
      aviation and patrol ships are not suitable for this, you need something thick like a missile cruiser, a universal landing ship or an aircraft carrier
    2. yehat
      yehat 24 December 2013 12: 00
      0
      China just needs control over the coastal regions.
      aviation and patrol ships are not suitable for this, you need something thick like a missile cruiser, a universal landing ship or an aircraft carrier
  22. velikoros-xnumx
    velikoros-xnumx 24 December 2013 10: 55
    +1
    Reportedly, the design of the carrier will be based on the drawings of the atomic aircraft carrier of the former USSR with a displacement of 80000 tons capable of carrying 60 aircraft.

    Who would doubt that
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. Altona
    Altona 24 December 2013 11: 11
    +1
    Quote: alex56
    Not knowing how for anyone, but let me build it for me. And tear yourself up.
    Such projects in the above privacy, and the arms race in general, are exhausting the economy. Launching the USA and China butting. And we will stand aside, take a look and wait.
    The main thing for us is to get too carried away by ourselves. But it is important to keep up.

    --------------------------
    For example, it seems to me that China is geographically very vulnerable, and geopolitically too ... I looked here just now the defeat by Marshal Vasilevsky of the Kwantung Army in two weeks, those are true Japanese, but not the point ...
    1. Rus2012
      24 December 2013 18: 45
      0
      Quote: Altona
      For example, it seems to me that China is geographically vulnerable, and geopolitically too ...

      They need aircraft carriers ... And there is money :)))
      Let them learn, help ...;)
      And then, if necessary, Mona will order from them :)))
  25. Ross
    Ross 24 December 2013 11: 39
    0
    Quote: GSH-18
    Quote from the article: "The design of the carrier is reportedly based on blueprints for an 80000-ton nuclear-powered aircraft carrier of the former USSR, capable of carrying 60 aircraft."
    ====================================================================== =========
    It sounds like a slap in the face. An alien state of demand bases can easily use our military know-how to create its new serious weapon. And in the meantime, we continue to chew snot ... Some are probably still proud of how, according to our drawings, the world is arming itself against us. Where are the Russian carrier groups ??

    Looks like a Ukrainian trace.
    1. Rus2012
      24 December 2013 18: 47
      0
      Quote: Ross
      An alien state of demand bases can easily use our military know-how to create its new serious weapon.


      ... without demand? :))))
      It seems that we don’t know much ...
      We can only guess. But this is entertaining;)
    2. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 24 December 2013 22: 29
      0
      Quote: Ross
      The foreign state of demand bases easily uses our military achievements

      They took it and didn’t ask. Claim.
  26. negeroi
    negeroi 24 December 2013 14: 37
    0
    Looks like a Ukrainian trace. What is the trace?
  27. kelevra
    kelevra 24 December 2013 16: 54
    0
    In the right direction, their head thinks.
  28. Rus2012
    24 December 2013 18: 42
    +1
    China is interested in technical assistance from Russia and Ukraine to create a nuclear carrier

    The last Soviet aircraft carrier Ulyanovsk was not built, but the experience of its design and construction can be useful for China, which is launching a program for the construction of nuclear aircraft carriers.

    Earlier, the website of the Chinese shipbuilding group announced that the development of “key technologies and research in the field of safety” and “a small nuclear reactor with subsequent demonstration of application” is beginning. This message was a signal that China is launching a program to create a nuclear carrier.

    Some analysts believe that in the first stage, China will build four aircraft carriers with a conventional power plant, then at least two nuclear aircraft carriers will be built (2020 year).

    The aircraft carrier Ulyanovsk (project 1143.7) was to become the next ship after the Kuznetsov (ave. 1143.5) and Varyaga (ave. 1143.6). Construction began on 22 on November 1988 at the Black Sea Shipbuilding Plant (ChSZ) in Ukraine and is due to be delivered to the fleet in 1995. The ship (order 103) was planned to be equipped with four KN-3 nuclear reactors (installed on nuclear-powered cruisers of the Kirov type). The cost of the ship was estimated at 800 million rubles.

    The length of the ship is 321 m, the width of the flight deck 79,5 m with two Mayak steam catapults, nevertheless, on the bow there was a springboard 33 m long for take-off of aircraft, standard displacement 62580 t. For the construction of the aircraft carrier, the shipyard was modernized with plans to expand production area.

    The ship could carry 70 aircraft, including Su-27K and MiG-29K fighters, Yak-44RLD aircraft, Ka-27 anti-submarine helicopters and Ka-31 radar guns. The aircraft carrier was equipped with launchers of P-700 Granit supersonic anti-ship anti-ship missiles, short-range missile defense systems and Kashtan missile defense systems.

    The ship was built without major technical difficulties. In 1991, blocks of 2700 tons were assembled, and work was underway on the installation of four nuclear reactors (two in the front and two in the lump of the ship) with a total weight of 1400 tons. The plant began to receive reactors, steam generators, pumps, steam pipes, etc. In the same year, welding was completed at the first reactor plants. In 1992, the laying of a second ship was even planned.
    Until November 1991, the ship was ready at 17-20%, but the USSR completely stopped financing the project. On February 4, on November 1992, the Ukrainian government ordered a complete cessation of work; in November of that year, the dismantling of the ship was completed. Thus, Ulyanovsk was the last Soviet aircraft carrier.

    Based on the 1143.6 Aircraft Varyag hull, China created its first Liaoning aircraft carrier, which completed the sea trials phase in September 2012. The rapidly changing situation in the East China and South China Seas is forcing China to urgently build up its naval power, and the decision to build a nuclear aircraft carrier is based on this task. China cannot receive technical information and assistance from the West in the construction of a ship of this class, but Russia and Ukraine, with experience in design and construction, can become “mentors” in the development and construction of the Chinese nuclear carrier.

    http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/2013-06-15/0924728101.html
  29. Power
    Power 24 December 2013 19: 51
    +1
    They say recently at the grave of Gagarin someone left the inscription "Yura, we all asked ... Ali."
  30. sigdoc
    sigdoc 24 December 2013 22: 26
    0
    The larger the cabinet, the louder it falls!
  31. Wiruz
    Wiruz 26 December 2013 18: 46
    0
    Damn, well, this is "Ulyanovsk" request request request
  32. tomcat117
    tomcat117 12 January 2014 22: 17
    +1
    Quote: sigdoc
    The larger the cabinet, the louder it falls!

    I agree.
    But our construction of the same aircraft carrier would have pulled the construction of escort and support ships.
    But "better" we will build and arm everything for the narrow-eyed in the hope that the Chinese cabinet will fall louder. Russia feed the Chinese army, no matter how it goes sideways.