A world without heroes. 955 "Borey" submarine missile carriers

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A world without heroes. 955 "Borey" submarine missile carriers


Boats named “Borey” became known in Russia and abroad long before they entered service, all thanks to the expected successes and loud failures when launching underwater-launched ballistic missiles “Bulava”.

Every opinion should strive for objectivity. Convulsive enthusiasm ("has no analogues in the world") and frenzied criticism ("will not float, will not fly") should be based on concrete knowledge and facts. The submarine submariner clearly does not deserve a scornful attitude - a clot of military matter weighing 15 thousand tons, capable of destroying life on the whole continent ...

The boat slides silently at a depth of 400 meters - where the pressure on every square meter of the hull reaches 40 tons! Squeezed into a monstrous vise, its body is elastically deformed under the onslaught of millions of cubic meters of water, but the crew is calm - it is still far to the depth of crushing. The jokers stretch the thread across the compartment and watch how it sags as the boat sinks into the abyss - a shell of high-strength alloyed steel reliably protects people from a hostile environment.

Borey nuclear-powered icebreaker is capable not to appear on the surface for months. It extracts air and fresh water directly from the outboard water. He is fast, low-noise and well aware of everything that happens behind his side: the main 7-meter and auxiliary antennas of the Irtysh-Amphora-B-055 hydroacoustic complex are able to track ships and vessels tens of miles around, detect sonar signals of enemy sonars, measure the thickness of ice, look for openings and divorces in polar latitudes, promptly warn about the presence of mines and torpedoes going to the ship.

The 955 project “Borey” sometimes causes not only sincere admiration. Appreciate actions, words do not cost anything - skeptics adhere to precisely this point of view, offering to take a look at the current successes of “Boreev”. There is success, but there are not so many of them yet.

For example, the head and so far the only one in the composition fleet Project 955 boat - K-535 "Yuri Dolgoruky" - has never yet entered combat patrol. In general, the situation is natural - the boat was accepted into the Northern Fleet in January 2013, the crew needs time to test new equipment. However, the last unsuccessful launch of the serial Bulava, made on September 6, 2013 from the board of the K-550 Alexander Nevsky submarine (the missile crashed in the 2nd minute of the flight, crashed into the Arctic Ocean), confirmed serious concerns - Bulava "Was adopted prematurely.

The identified problems in the design of the SLBM and the decision to suspend the state tests of the Alexander Nevsky and Vladimir Monomakh submarines soon pose a certain threat to achieving operational readiness in time for all the submarines of this project.



"Yuri Dolgoruky" - the only nuclear submarine, adopted by the Russian Navy over the past 12 years and the only strategic submarine, adopted by the last 23 of the year. After these facts, the calculations of analysts from the FAS (Federation of American Scientists) with all the possible engagement of this resource no longer seem so shocking implausible: the strategic submarine carrier of the Russian Navy performed 2012 combat patrols for the 5 year - less than ever.

There is an urgent need to increase KOH (coefficient of operational voltage) and increase the readiness of maritime nuclear forces - a key element of the country's security. However, the Boreas, for various reasons, are not in a hurry to impose responsibility on themselves for the protection of Russia's borders. Most modern boats prefer to spend time on state trials.

Let's hope that the problems described will be solved in the very near future. To date, three missile carriers of this project have already been built. The head K-535 "Yuri Dolgoruky" was accepted into the Navy and is preparing for its first combat campaign, which is scheduled for 2014 year.

K-550 "Alexander Nevsky" successfully completed state tests (the only doubt is its main weapon - P-30 "Mace". The only launch from his side failed. The second test run was canceled). It is expected that the new missile carrier will be accepted into the Navy at the end of 2013 - the beginning of 2014.

The third boat, the K-551 "Vladimir Monomakh", launched in December 2012 of the year, is under way trials.

Future plans for the Navy include building another 5 submarines of this project.

30 July 2013, in the presence of the first persons of the state, was laid down, the fourth in a row missile carrier "Prince Vladimir". This ship is built on the modernized project 955U "Borey-A". The main differences from the first "Boreev" will be less noise and more accurate and stable "retention" of a given depth - a critical moment in salvo firing SLBMs.

It is expected that “Alexander Suvorov” will be laid in 2014. A year later - the next ship. And so on - 8 total of formidable combat units, which will be replaced at the post by the missile carriers Ave. 667BDRD Kalmar and 667BDRM Dolphin.

Real heroes?

В stories “Boreev” has a lot of paradoxical facts, many of which can cause sincere bewilderment.

The fact that Yuri Dolgorukiy was laid in 1996, launched in 2008 and transferred to the Navy in 2013, is not surprising: the well-known political and economic events at the turn of the XX-XXI centuries. dramatically slowed the pace of construction of Russian submarines, turning them into "protracted" worthy of the Guinness Book of Records. To date, the situation has improved significantly: the third in a row, “Borey” - “Vladimir Monomakh” - was laid in 2006 year and, very likely, will become part of the Navy already in 2014. The construction duration is still more than the Soviet standards in 2-3 times, but still the progress is obvious.

Another feature of the “Boreyev” appears even more controversial: in their construction, ready-made sections were used from the dismantled and dismantled submarines of the 971 Avenue “Pike-B”.


Nuclear submarine pr. 971 "Pike-B"

The submarine, known as the Yuri Dolgoruky missile carrier, was originally a Kugar K-337 multi-purpose submarine. Launched in 1992, it turned out to be unfinished and was finally dismantled on the stocks in order to “cannibalize” its sections for new submarines.

"Alexander Nevsky" was once "Rysyu". "Vladimir Monomakh" - "Ak Bars". K-480 Ak Bars has served in the 24 Division of the Northern Fleet Submarines since 1989. In 2008, it was excluded from the Navy, sections of the hull were used to complete the construction of "Vladimir Monomakh."

There is a version that this explains the recent news about the early cancellation of the K-263 “Barnaul” multipurpose atarins — sections of this boat are necessary for the completion of the next Borey missile carriers.

The author more than once had to come across the opinion that the newest submarines are just a “hodgepodge of rusty rubbish” with a flightless Bulava, outdated radio electronics, and also turned into an infernal unfinished.

What can you say to this? “Rusty trash” is a clear exaggeration, high-strength austenitic steel of the AK-100 brand, from which the submersibles of the 971 avenue submarines were made, is practically not subject to corrosion. According to one of the versions, in the process of completion only the sides of the durable boat hull of the 971 Ave were used - all the “stuffing” was unrecognizably updated. In this case, the use of backlog from disassembled submarines to accelerate the completion of the Boreev - if not good news (rejoice that instead of two submarines built one - absurdity), then at least evidence of a zealous attitude to what was saved after the era shocks and bacchanalia "free market".

The second question directly arising from the fact of borrowing sections from the boats of previous projects is whether the Boreas can be counted as a new submarine, so-called. "Fourth" generation? Among the basic requirements for such submarines is low noise background, whose value approaches the natural noise background of the ocean. Better situational awareness, advanced detection tools and weapons. Also a feature of such boats is the presence of high-tech techniques and new products that increase their versatility and combat capabilities. For example, a multifunction optoelectronic mast instead of the usual periscope, a lock chamber for combat swimmers, or a set of uninhabited underwater vehicles for making passages in minefields, available on board American Virginia submarines.

Is there anything similar on board the domestic Boreas?

The exact characteristics of "Boreas" are classified, but something is already known now. In addition to the sections of the hull, the Borey uses a number of other mechanisms and systems similar to those used in the construction of the 971 Shchuka-B submarines and aircraft carrier killers of the Antey Ave 949A. Among them are the OK-650В nuclear steam generating plant with a thermal power of 190 MW and the main turbo-gear unit (a steam turbine with a reducer) OK-9ВМ. Itchy coolant pumps and a roaring GTZA are one of the main sources of noise. If all the elements remain the same, then the background noise could not undergo significant changes. For comparison: the new Russian multi-purpose nuclear-powered icebreaker, the 885 Pr. Ash, uses a similar GEM, but at the same time it has its own know-how, a small feature that radically increases its secrecy. At low speed, in the “sneaking up” mode, the GTZA is disconnected from the shaft with a special clutch - the propeller shaft is rotated using a low-power electric motor.

Among the positive aspects of the "Borea" I would like to mention its jet propulsion, whose use was to reduce the noise during the movement of the submarine. Among the other attributes of the new generation of boats is the highly sensitive spherical antenna of the Irtysh-Amfora State Joint Stock Company, which deals with the entire bow of the ship. The use of this scheme, typical of foreign submarines, indicates a change in the entire paradigm in the domestic shipbuilding: special attention has been paid to detection devices.

The use of an “outdated” OK-650В reactor installation instead of low-noise reactors that are gaining popularity abroad, with an emphasis on the natural circulation of the coolant, as well as with a long service life without the need to recharge them, is a justified decision.

On the one hand, no special measures were taken to reduce the noise during the operation of the SSEI — the maximum was limited to new beds and better noise insulation. And this is bad. On the other hand, the pursuit of long life of fuel assemblies does not lead to anything good: firstly, all the efforts of American designers led to the fact that the lifetime of the S6W reactor core exceeds the similar OK-650 value by a maximum of 10 years - not too much a great result, despite the fact that the process of recharging boat reactors itself is not something special or requiring supernatural efforts. Secondly, in order not to lose face, the Yankees go for a deliberately forgery - 30 years without reloading? Easily! But only with a limited number of outlets at sea.

A few more kind words about OK-650В. The installation is well mastered by domestic sailors and nuclear specialists, for 30 years of operation its structure has been studied and “ground” to the smallest detail. Two NPIs of this type proved their reliability by surviving a monstrous explosion aboard the Kursk and automatically drowning out their active zone. OK-650B is one of the best submarines in the world, and the need to replace it is not at all as obvious as it might seem.

From my personal point of view, the requirements for the "fourth generation" submarines should be determined by their purpose. It is incorrect to compare the tasks and capabilities of the multi-purpose SeaWolf, Virginia, or Ash trees with the Borey strategic rocket carriers. What kind of “multifunctionality” and “wide range of tasks” can we talk about if the main and only task of the SSBN is to silently write out “eight” in the depths of the ocean and in readiness upon the first order to launch its ammunition load in the cities and military bases of the “probable enemy”?

Generations of strategic missile carriers to a greater degree are determined by the performance characteristics of the ballistic missiles deployed on board, rather than by their own characteristics of submarines. Given that the noisiness of "Borea", other things being equal, should be lower than that of the Squid and Dolphins of the previous generation. The sensitivity of the Irtysh-Amphora hydroacoustic complex should also be higher than that of any SAC used on Soviet-built boats — which is a giant spherical antenna in the nose of the Boreas! Powerful and reliable reactor. The presence of an injecting emergency capsule that can accommodate the entire crew of 107 people.

The main caliber of the boat is 16 solid-fuel underwater-based ballistic missiles P-30 Bulava. Even during the development of the Bulava, the opinion was repeatedly expressed that this project was useless. The fact is that Soviet and Russian SSBNs are traditionally completed with rockets with liquid-propellant engines. The reason is simple: in terms of the specific impulse of the LRE, it always exceeds the solid propellant rocket motor (liquid rocket with the same mass of fuel will fly farther than the solid fuel). The rate of outflow of gases from the nozzle of modern liquid propellant rocket engines may reach 3500 m / s or more, while for solid propellant solid propellant engines this parameter does not exceed 2500 m / s. The second problem - the production of solid propellant rocket motors requires the highest technical culture and quality control, the slightest fluctuation of humidity / temperature will have a critical impact on the stability of fuel combustion.


"Mace" rides in the sky in front of astonished Norwegians

But why on solid-state submarines usually use solid-propellant SLBM, despite all their apparent flaws? Polaris, Poseidon, Trident ...

RDTT has its own advantages, first of all - storage safety. Suffice it to recall the death of K-219, to understand what was going on. The spontaneous launching of a solid propellant rocket motor in a mine of a submarine is almost impossible, unlike the LRE, which can leak components of fuel at any time. With regard to the increased requirements for the storage conditions of solid-fuel missiles - a thermostable container, and no threat of cracking / wetting of fuel plates.

Among other advantages of solid propellant rocket motors - the relative cheapness of manufacture and operation. The thermal container and the stability control of the parameters of solid fuel cannot be compared with the turbopump units, the mixing head and shut-off valves of the LRE. In addition, solid fuels are non-toxic. The shorter length of solid-propellant rockets is the absence of a separated combustion chamber (the solid propellant rocket motor itself is the combustion chamber).

Ease of start-up - A solid propellant rocket motor does not require such complex and dangerous operations as filling fuel lines and cooling jackets or maintaining boost in tanks. After completing these actions, there is no way to start from the start (or to drain the fuel components and send an emergency rocket to the factory).

Finally, the last condition, whose relevance increases with each passing year, is that solid-fuel missiles are more resistant to missile defense.

The first attempt to create a “like the Americans” missile ended in failure — a “boat that doesn’t fit in the ocean” and the monstrous X-NUMX-tonnant R-90 X-ray submarine missile (the main weapon of the Shark Ave. The Soviet industry was unable to create gunpowder with the necessary characteristics, the result was an indomitable growth in the size of the rocket and the carrier.


Bulava comes out of the Dmitry Donskoy TRPKSN launch shaft
(test complex on the basis of the submarine type "Shark")

"Mace" - a fresh look at the problem of solid-propellant rockets. Yuri Solomonov, the General Designer and the former Director of MIT, managed the impossible: under conditions of underfunding to build a solid-propellant SLBM of acceptable dimensions, with decent performance and launch range 9000 + km. While partially unified with the ground complex "Topol-M".

And let by the specific impulse, launch range and weight of the thrown load, the Bulava is inferior to the R-29РМ “Sineva” liquid - in exchange, the domestic submarine fleet acquired a simple and safe in operation rocket, which, without any irony, surpasses any in service with the Navy of the USSR and Russia. Failures occur already in the course of the flight - but this issue is resolved by conducting new test launches and a comprehensive study of the results (ideally, the construction of a test bench for ground tests, for which, as usual, there are no funds).

"Bulava" and "Boreas" are necessary for the domestic fleet. And this question is beyond doubt.









Those. Consultation Specialist - Postman
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47 comments
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  1. +30
    19 December 2013 08: 31
    The main task of these boats is staff reduction. For example, the state of Arkansas ...
    1. Airman
      +8
      19 December 2013 16: 59
      Quote: VohaAhov
      The main task of these boats is staff reduction. For example, the state of Arkansas ...

      The main task of these boats is to carry databases, and they are at the pier, and their maintenance is expensive.
  2. jjj
    +8
    19 December 2013 08: 55
    Interesting pictures. I haven’t seen them yet
    1. +17
      19 December 2013 09: 52
      Quote: jjj
      Interesting pictures. I haven’t seen them yet

      This is the author's handwriting! OLEG thanks for the work. The article is ambiguous and causes mixed feelings (at least for me). We go forward but the problems are higher than the trajectory of the "Bulava"!

      solid rockets are more resistant to missile defense.
      Here I would like to know in more detail what are the nuances and what exactly is the advantage over liquid ???
      1. Magellan
        +3
        19 December 2013 10: 46
        Quote: Arberes
        Here I would like to know in more detail what are the nuances and what exactly is the advantage over liquid ???

        1.low-altitude quasi-ballistic trajectory of the Bulava (in this case, the lower energy of the TT rocket went to her advantage)
        2. Laser fire on a fuel tank with asymmetric dimethylhydrazine under pressurization. Or simulate a close anti-missile explosion - a solid rocket has more chances to survive
      2. postman
        +2
        19 December 2013 22: 52
        Quote: Arberes
        Here I would like to know in more detail what are the nuances and what exactly is the advantage over liquid ???

        mmm ... it was I who "advised" him, wrote at night, with his left foot, looking with one eye, without "decoding", meaning on the acceleration section(the most for interception)
        JUSTIFICATION:

        Quote: Postman

        as well as solid propellant rocket engines have an advantage over rocket engines for missile defense:
        - less active area (less weight, less operating time, different trajectory)
        - less gabbare (probability of "hitting the target")
        -lower flame temperature (IR visibility), because less energy component
        - less radar visibility (case), case composite, no cardan, TNA, nozzle and CS made of metal
        - more durable (for both kinetic and high explosive, high explosive or radiation exposure): a solid propellant rocket engine is not only a housing, but also an array of a fuel bomb ..
        and the rocket launcher body is a filigree, THIN-WALL (milled, waffle) structure made of LIGHT (weak) metal, WHICH CAN'T LOSE TIGHTNESS IN ANY EVENT (strength + boost pressure - stability of the operation of the TNA and the LRE as a whole
      3. bif
        +1
        19 December 2013 23: 45
        Quote: Arberes
        Here I would like to know in more detail what are the nuances and what exactly is the advantage over liquid ???

        Thanks to the author for the article, let me notice something.
        With the main advantages of "liquid-propellant" rockets (high energy and vast experience in the creation and operation), the choice in favor of solid-fuel missiles is more than justified.
        I will explain, with the advantages indicated by the author:
        RTTT has its own advantages, first of all - storage safety

        the relative cheapness of manufacture and operation ... e requires such complex and dangerous operations

        solid rockets are more resistant to missile defense

        If you exaggerate the appointment of a strategic submarine, then it boils down to a HIDDEN being in a certain district not awaiting an order for a volley .... God forbid. With the continuous improvement of detection tools, including acoustic, so reducing noise is a priority. The absence of these drawbacks in solid fuels was decisive.
        "disadvantages inherent in rockets with liquid propellant engines - increased media noise (SSBN) due to the larger amount of equipment for servicing missiles, for launch preparation ("wet start") .. "
  3. 0
    19 December 2013 09: 07
    Yuri Solomonov, the chief designer and former director of MIT, managed the impossible: under conditions of underfunding, to build solid-fuel SLBMs of acceptable dimensions, with decent performance characteristics and a launch range of 9000+ km.

    Oleg, was there any underfunding? Maybe the opposite?
    1. +5
      19 December 2013 09: 10
      Solomonov is not a con man similar to Ashurbeyli (who promised to bring down the Chelyabinsk meteorite from C-400)
      1. +3
        19 December 2013 09: 50
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Solomonov is not a con man similar to Ashurbeyli (who promised to bring down the Chelyabinsk meteorite from C-400)

        What I mean is that MIT did not state underfunding, at least I did not meet, on the contrary, Bulava was a priority project and was funded with a clear excess.
        PS: you shouldn't be talking about Ashurbeyli, because the S-400 is now "our everything", they will begin to accuse of all mortal sins ...
        1. +1
          19 December 2013 20: 22
          Quote: Nayhas
          What I mean is that MIT did not state underfunding, at least I did not meet, on the contrary, Bulava was a priority project and was funded with a clear excess.

          Lack of stands for ground tests
          The history of H-1 repeated - flight tests immediately began, the result is predictable. The only difference is that the Mace is cheaper - and it can be started more often and slowly brought to mind

          All over the world, such things are first worked out at the stands (i.e. all mace accidents are common practice, rocket engine problems are always detected during bench tests, but mace accidents became known to the whole world, because they happened in space before our eyes everyone has)
          1. postman
            +2
            19 December 2013 23: 23
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Lack of stands for ground tests

            ?

            Throwing range launch of the 3M30 Bulava missile from the SM-E336 full-scale stand. The first frame - the starting solid propellant rocket / PAD is working, the second frame - free flight, the third frame - the 1st stage solid propellant engine is started, the fourth frame - the 1st stage of the rocket is operating. The 18th engineering testing ground of the Russian Ministry of Defense, the site of the KBSM training ground in Elizavetinka near St. Petersburg (still from the film "MIT. 60 years in a strategic direction").

            May 24, 2004 in Votkinsk during firing tests of solid propellant rocket propulsion of one of the steps there was an explosion.


            tender for testing the "Bulava" complex developed by the design bureau of special mechanical engineering (Support of the Russian defense industry. // National Defense No. 4/2011).


            Full-scale throwing stand SM-E336 for testing the Bulava missile (Support of the Russian defense industry. // National Defense №4 / 2011).
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. freedom2013
        0
        19 December 2013 22: 01
        Thank God, Ashurbeyli was removed 2 years ago, although my opinion should have been judged for corruption. The entire family in subsidiaries servicing Almaz-Antey is sitting as directors (military-industrial complex - telecom, military-industrial complex - construction, etc.)
    2. AVV
      +3
      19 December 2013 11: 11
      The necessary weapons, the marine nuclear component !!! But Makeevtsy are also on the alert, making their reliable capsule missiles with outstanding characteristics !!!
  4. +2
    19 December 2013 09: 32
    Oleg, thanks for the article ..... but when the eights will be written out in the Pacific, it would be great to be covered not only by hunters, but also by an air wing (which is not there yet) .... then and only then I will I’m sure that the answer will be ADEQUATE and there will be perfect peace on the planet .... in the meantime, mattresses for each borea (dolphin-squid) have a couple of three moose, and it’s far from the fact that we’ll have time to shoot !!
  5. +1
    19 December 2013 10: 08
    "Mace" rides in the sky in front of astonished Norwegians

    Indescribable beauty! Only because of the lack of knowledge of the materiel, I don’t understand - is this a bad launch, or a successful one?
    1. Magellan
      +9
      19 December 2013 10: 39
      Quote: Maxsh
      "Mace" rides in the sky in front of astonished Norwegians
      Indescribable beauty! Only because of the lack of knowledge of the materiel, I don’t understand - is this a bad launch, or a successful one?

      The nozzle jammed, it sausages in a circle

      And here is another one, this time the American "Trident2". Flutters like a swallow, and in fact it contains 60 tons!
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. freedom2013
        +1
        19 December 2013 22: 04
        Two dead loops without wings - this is aerobatics !!! wassat
      3. postman
        +1
        19 December 2013 23: 28
        Quote: Magellan

        The nozzle jammed, it sausages in a circle

        As far as I know (although I may be mistaken, there is no open information) the nozzle at the first stage NOT ROTATING, IMHO nothing there could "jam"


        further yes, rotary
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. postman
            +1
            19 December 2013 23: 56
            Quote from rudolf
            Do not exclude the presence of PUSs (rotary control nozzles)

            No, of course. Perhaps the presence of aerodynamic rudders
            I'm just talking about "the nozzle is stuck"
            Although the same is not a fact (lack of a central rotary nozzle)
            Because as if "Bulava" is a "descendant" of RSS-40 Courier - SS-X-26

            And he has
            1st stage:
            - Swivel partially recessed into the combustion chamber
            - Controls: Swivel nozzle and aerodynamic steering wheels
    2. Volkhov
      +1
      19 December 2013 12: 39
      This is the pre-signal of a comet - in 30 years there will be a desert, if not to bring down. Propaganda is fog.
  6. +14
    19 December 2013 10: 34
    I have nothing against the "Boreys", but I think that it is so barbarous to cut the "Sharks" while the "Bulava" is actually not there, FULL MADNESS.
    1. +6
      19 December 2013 10: 44
      There are no missiles on Sharks and are not expected.
      1. +11
        19 December 2013 12: 44
        And this is very bad. "Sharks" were really a weapon of retaliation, and no "Orion" found it under the ice of the North. fool
        1. postman
          0
          20 December 2013 09: 41
          Quote: ZABVO
          no "Orion" found her under the ice of the North

          But why?
          when next to the Shark would graze
          -Los Angeles and Seawolf submarines
          -Submarines such as Swiftsure class and Churchill class
          -Rubis-type submarines
          + bunch of diesel-electric submarines of other NATO countries
          It’s practically impossible to lose the shark (lose contact)
          1. 0
            22 December 2013 08: 23
            But that's the point, they are all afraid to walk under the ice of the North. It is very dangerous for NATO "sea wolves" to turn out to be. wink
          2. 0
            22 December 2013 08: 23
            But that's the point, they are all afraid to walk under the ice of the North. It is very dangerous for NATO "sea wolves" to turn out to be. wink
      2. +2
        19 December 2013 12: 44
        And this is very bad. "Sharks" were really a weapon of retaliation, and no "Orion" found it under the ice of the North. fool
      3. +7
        19 December 2013 22: 35
        Quote: Wedmak
        There are no missiles on Sharks and are not expected.
        The "Sharks" shaft diameter is large enough to fit under another rocket, it would be okay the other way around. The Americans converted four of their SSBNs (Ohio, Michigan, Florida and Georgia) to cruise missiles. We cut our own, and they store, preserve or re-equip. All right, we have new boats under construction in record time, no, slaughter the finished, not having a replacement! This is not only madness, this is betrayal. "Shark" is one of the best boats in the USSR, which the Yankees first of all tried to destroy. The photo shows the converted missile silos of American submarines, each of which received an arsenal of 154 cruise missiles.
  7. avt
    +4
    19 December 2013 10: 51
    I put a plus, that's just for - “Rusty trash” is an obvious exaggeration, “I would put it without reading the rest. Oleg changed his opinion and accepted the arguments expressed to him on the forum! And in general, the article is balanced both in text and in illustrations. No, a really good article, popular and tasteful.
    1. +7
      20 December 2013 03: 03
      Quote: avt
      And in general, the article is balanced both in text and illustrations. No, really a good article, popular and tasteful.

      I also share the opinion of Marshall, put +, BUT, I would like to insert my 5 cents. I believe Oleg will not be offended.
      1. Oleg was clearly modest, believing that Borey "Hears for tens of miles." The target detection range of the SAC is more than 220-230 km, which is 100-120 miles. The number of simultaneously tracked hydroacoustic targets is at least 30.
      2. Reproach to the crew that since January 2013 of the year he had never gone on combat patrols was not fair: the spent crew was released into the autonomous region, and as a rule, with the presence of the 2 crew ready to accept the hull (boat) after returning to base. It is all determined Training courses, cyclical delivery of tasks. At the end of January, the media published infa: "In the near future, it is planned to work out the tasks L-1 (Organization of a submarine and its preparation for battle and campaign, 60 days) Then it will be worked out task L-2 (Organization of swimming submarines, 60 days) After that, SSBN will enter deep sea tests to a depth of 600 meters and the performance of torpedo firing from great depths. Next will be training personnel on task L-3 (Conducting hostilities) in order to make possible the use of weapons and the introduction of SSBNs as part of the readiness forces. By the end of 2013, it is planned to prepare two SSBN crews. In January, the 2014 planned to begin loading missile ammunition and at the end the boat will be put on alert " With P-30 - problems, but without weapons you can’t go to sea.
      3. The question is somewhat embarrassing: is it possible to rank Borey among the 4 generation boats. I believe that in terms of noise and combat potential it is possible.
      "PL pr.955 have 5 times less noisethan PLA pr.971 and pr.949A (statement of General Director of the Central Design Bureau "Rubin" A.A. Dyachkov, 21.12.2010) ".
      I believe that the statement that SSBN generations were determined by SLBMs is not correct. This is a common methodological mistake: to separate the carrier and its weapons as a single combat system. Excellent rpkSN pr.667BDRM when filling the silo gap during the prelaunch preparation of the Republic of Kazakhstan is perfectly audible on the controller ship. I think Elks hear it too. And this is an immediate torpedo salvo at the NMC. Further to tell? or is everything clear already? With the prelaunch preparation of SLBM TT, there is no need to fill in the short circuit. PAD throws the district from the container installed in the silo.
      4. About fuel tiles in solid propellant rocket engines. There are no tiles there. Monolithic, capricious by T * and P checker. Microcrack - and detonation. What is dangerous. At least the staff had it, maybe it’s different with us.
      5. About writing "8" in the RDB or on the route. Not correct. Usually in a box, or HERE-HERE (back, you and me are pleased, but the foe is not very good!). Such maneuvering makes it impossible to determine underwater targets by their wake, which negatively affects the support forces (971pr).
      It was interesting and informative to read the comments of colleagues (the Handbook, Rudolph, SEC Prikhodyashchiy, etc.), to get acquainted with thoughts and views on the problem that you put forward, Oleg, for discussion.
      Thank you so much for your work.
      PS. December 05, 2013 - it is reported that K-535 "Yuri Dolgoruky" arrived at PO "Sevmash" to undergo repairs. It is planned to repair the anti-hydroacoustic coating of the hull. Earlier it was planned that the ship would take up combat duty at the beginning of 2014, but now the dates are shifted to the second half of 2014. At the same time, there is information that the boat will return to Gadzhievo by the end of 2013.
  8. Magellan
    -2
    19 December 2013 10: 53
    Alexander Nevsky "was once a" Trot. " “Vladimir Monomakh” - “Ak Bars”. K-480 Ak Bars has served in the 24th division of the Northern Fleet submarine since 1989. In 2008, she was expelled from the Navy, sections of the corps were used to complete the "Vladimir Monomakh."

    Have you expected anything different from the Kremlin loungers? They only build and know how

    Obeschalkin speaks at the ceremony of laying the SSBN "Prince Vladimir" (licked, so licked!)
  9. +8
    19 December 2013 10: 56
    There are no ups without falls.
    It’s time for Russia, and even more so for the Moscow Region, to limit information about the trials, state admissions and the like, and do as in the USSR:
    “Today such a submarine has been commissioned or a rocket (any other weapon) has been adopted so that those who like to make money even from failures have cooled down.
    They know less (who should not), a stronger country.
  10. +1
    19 December 2013 11: 06
    Fuzeler
    + totally agree! Photo where together Borey and Shark are wonderful. Well, what a bad addition to boreas?
    And there will be a mace ... Well, modify the sharks, as far as possible, put the maces.
    1. +6
      19 December 2013 12: 25
      I write again forget about the Sharks. All these boats are gone and never will be again. There are several reasons for this. The road is in operation. No rockets. Deadlines. Bringing the fleet to a single image. And the most interesting thing now under the agreement can be 14 carriers (therefore, the United States and re-shared 4 of its Ohio), it seems like according to the new agreement it should be 10. And now we count 6 bdrm 3 bdr 3 sharks 1 Borea = 13 plus 2 Borea on the way. So what are we going to saw? Obviously not BDRM and not BDR who have passed or are undergoing repair and modernization. When Borev is put into service, first sharks, then bdr and then the first bdrm will be withdrawn from the fleet. By 2021 (as promised), most likely we will have the following composition of 8 Borev + 2-4 Bdrm with the continuation of the construction of project 955 boats or new project boats. And this is normal practice and it should be so. And do not bring nonsense about the modernization of sharks in the media cr. firstly very expensive. Secondly, imagine such a carrier in - and 24-48 000 tons built for the northern latitudes in the Mediterranean Sea. What secrecy can we talk about?
  11. +20
    19 December 2013 11: 26
    Quote: Wedmak
    There are no missiles on Sharks and are not expected.

    Are you probably the head of the RAV service in the Navy that so confidently declare?
    The first attempt to create a “like the Americans” missile ended in failure — a “boat that doesn’t fit in the ocean” and the monstrous X-NUMX-tonnant R-90 X-ray submarine missile (the main weapon of the Shark Ave. The Soviet industry was unable to create gunpowder with the necessary characteristics, the result was an indomitable growth in the size of the rocket and the carrier.(author)
    The rocket turned out to be too big but reliable. When the Americans did Trident-2, their rocket, compared to the Trident-1, grew significantly, only 2,5 meters shorter than the P-39, and the Trident-2 flies 11000 km without a combat load and with a load of 7600 km and they say that the Americans saved on reserving the warhead, and the nuclear submarine pr.941 "Shark" which does not fit in the ocean in length is equal to the American "Ohio", only twice as wide and a little higher. But only "Ogaya" after 4 missiles released so it starts to sausage that you have to stop firing and wait for the boat to calm down, and "Shark releases all its ammunition without choking. "Shark freely breaks ice 2,5 meters thick, and" Ohio "ice, on which fishermen are afraid to walk. If" Shark "was a useless pelvis, then the Americans would not use so much money and effort to cut them.
    For the rest, I liked the article, thanks to the author.
    1. stjrm
      +3
      19 December 2013 11: 58
      Well, there really are no rockets. Under the contract, all were depleted by the shooting method.
      Of course, such ships are a pity; they could also serve.
      1. not good
        +2
        19 December 2013 13: 16
        Can be converted into an underwater mine layer.
    2. typhoon7
      +3
      19 December 2013 18: 42
      I subscribe to your words. Most likely, the Sharks, like many other ships of the fleet, are a political decision.
    3. +4
      19 December 2013 20: 28
      He visited the Sharks while working on Sevmash, they are insanely sorry for them, a real imperial cruiser, only takes pride in the country that created SUCH ships. I can’t say for all Sharks, and the 712 order (factory code) developed the reactor core by only 8 percent (according to the factory team), then rocket mines were cut out and the boat was transferred to the plant for subsequent disposal. In terms of maneuverability, again from the words of the factory team, it has no equal among the SSBNs due to special thrusters. So she climbed into the ocean perfectly, and what are the combat services worth 6 months each?
  12. +1
    19 December 2013 11: 32
    Oleg, thanks for the work. I read.
    There is a version that this explains the recent news about the early decommissioning of the K-263 Barnaul multipurpose atomic tank - sections of this boat are necessary for the completion of the following Borey rocket carriers.

    Interesting idea. I would like the K-263 "Barnaul" to live at least in this sense. A kind of "deep modernization" ....
  13. +12
    19 December 2013 11: 39
    Somehow during the years of service 91-93, I visited a shark, wandered there on the rocket deck, a strange feeling of shock and stunned by the size ... But taking into account the tasks assigned to this class of boats, and their uniqueness it’s so stupid to cut them ... For such wrecking it is necessary to shoot.
  14. stjrm
    +21
    19 December 2013 11: 46
    1. I did not understand how a missile on a TT is more resistant to missile defense than a missile on a VT.
    2. Does the author know that the APT can be interrupted before the onset of irreversible processes on the rocket with VT. What can be done to release pressure from rocket tanks? That such a rocket can be prepared several more times for launch? Yes, the storage time of such a product in a submarine mine is limited. Yes, rockets with VT require an attentive and gentle approach, I would say. This, by the way, is provided by vocational training and education of l / s. Including the maintenance of the mat. parts of the Republic of Kazakhstan in good condition.
    3. It is not correct to compare the RK RPK SN K-219 with the complex there which is on the BDR and BDRM. It is enough to say that the oxidizer is drained on these ships into the hold of the compartment, which must be filled with water before that. On BDR and M, this procedure takes place in the outboard space.
    4. The fleet, unfortunately, did not acquire either simple or safe? rockets in the face of the Mace. We simply do not have it in service. And the RPK SN without the main weapon, it’s just big, expensive, it may well be a good, but absolutely useless UNDERWATER STEAM.
    5. It is not at all natural that the crew accepting the boat, even a new one, YEAR does not fulfill the BATTLE TASKS.
    At one time, when BDRs and BDRMs were being built, this process went much faster, more useful. New ships were loaded with ammunition in the North, made the transition to the TF, performed BS and only then went to the base, to Rybachy. Well, not all of course, yes.
    6. Why Americans do not have rockets on VT. Not at all because they made the safety of their missiles the main criterion. But also because they could not do something like Makeevsky missiles.
    Of course we need a new RC for the PKK SN. It would not be very bad if he was with a solid rocket. The preparation time for the launch, the time of the launch itself is greatly reduced, which undoubtedly affects the combat stability of the PKK SN. Now, if we now had at least two times more BDRMs, we could calmly engage in bringing the new complex and the ship to mind and complete readiness for SERVICE.
    I now believe that the BDRM itself did not exhaust its modernization potential as a ship. RK is very decent, relevant and reliable for today and for the coming years. A very good project, our only hope for today.
    Eight new RPK SN that are going to be built, given that the BDRs and BDRMs will be withdrawn (not forever serve, my own "steamer" is already over thirty!), But it's about nothing. Considering what is and what is being built by our sworn "friends".
    The article is good for the magazine "Ogonyok", to raise the morale of the layman not connected with the navy.
    Well, I think so.
    1. +1
      19 December 2013 12: 32
      If it's not a secret, which case is yours and years.
      1. stjrm
        0
        19 December 2013 21: 28
        From 82 to 92.
        K-223 is native. I went to K-433, after driving away the steamer, the Kontron took K-506.
    2. postman
      +1
      19 December 2013 23: 59
      Quote: stjrm
      1. I did not understand how a missile on a TT is more resistant to missile defense than a missile on a VT.

      Quote: Postman
      as well as solid propellant rocket engines have an advantage over rocket engines for missile defense:
      - less active area (less weight, less operating time, different trajectory)
      - less gabbare (probability of "hitting the target")
      -lower flame temperature (IR visibility), because less energy component
      - less radar visibility (case), case composite, no cardan, TNA, nozzle and CS made of metal
      - more durable (for both kinetic and high explosive, high explosive or radiation exposure): a solid propellant rocket engine is not only a housing, but also an array of a fuel bomb ..
      and the rocket launcher body is a filigree, THIN-WALL (milled, waffle) construction made of LIGHT (weak) metal, WHICH CAN'T LOSE TIGHTNESS IN ANY EVENT (strength + boost pressure — stability of the operation of the TNA and the LRE as a whole)

      Quote: stjrm
      can be interrupted before the onset of irreversible processes on the rocket with VT. What can be done to release pressure from rocket tanks?

      To "start" (ready to start, you need 6
      -to inflate tanks
      - "START" (untwist THA): 25000 rpm
      -fill lines with fuel components
      and if it is theoretically possible to "pressurize" it, it is still possible to return to its own place (bleed off), then everything else is NOT: THA resource and its reliability, fuel line fittings and volume (the calculated one is fighting for kg) -NOT ANYMORE.
      Return to factory
      Quote: stjrm
      that the oxidizer is drained on these ships in the hold of the compartment

      You remember what happens when you return
      Quote: stjrm
      The fleet, unfortunately, did not acquire either simple or safe? rockets in the face of the Mace.

      In principle, there is a strategic mistake.
      WE (USSR) on technological restrictions went the other way - liquid ICBMs
      and achieved PERFECTION in this
      Yes, the low accuracy (at that time) of the SU was compensated by the larger cast mass, which also caused the rocket's energy.
      But estimate, now, having perfect control and guidance, as well as the refined LRE technology, what a masterpiece would have turned out (Sineva 2,3 etc.)
      1. postman
        0
        19 December 2013 23: 59
        Quote: stjrm
        Not at all because they made the safety of their missiles the main criterion. But also because they could not do something like Makeevsky missiles.

        ??
        in the second half of the 40s employees of the jet engine laboratory (USA), who proposed crystalline particles of potassium perchlorate (KClO4) or ammonium (NH4ClO4) as an oxidizing agent embedded in a mass of polysulfide synthetic rubber (fuel) as solid rocket fuel.
        The invention of mixed fuel together with the development of a new technology for the manufacture of fuel charges made a real revolution in the field of solid propellant rocket engines and all rocket technology.
        - it became possible to manufacture charges disproportionately large in size than before
        - mixed fuels can burn stably at pressures of only a few megapascals, which can significantly reduce the mass of the solid propellant rocket engine design
        - elimination of unnecessary "elements of fastening the fuel charge to the body
        and so on, etc. + operational readiness and "reusability" of readiness for start-up + technological and chemical ability of the industry to produce UNCOOLED NOZZLES (carbon fiber reinforced plastic)
        the creation of this "simple" engine requires an extremely high development of theoretical knowledge, chemical engineering, technology of production processes, as well as mastering many technical "secrets"
        - the high density of solid fuel allows you to create propulsion systems in which the design accounts for only 5-7% of the total mass (when using a liquid propellant rocket engine this indicator is 1,5 times worse)
        1. stjrm
          +2
          20 December 2013 11: 53
          So what?
          That's when OURS will make a rocket for submarines reliable, not gigantic sizes on TT, I will be very happy. In the meantime, for now, you can only rely on the BDR / BDRM with their weapons. Reliable enough and well-established. Shooting full ammunition confirmation of this. Now, if at least once every 5-7 years to arrange this, wow. smile
          1. postman
            +1
            20 December 2013 20: 48
            Quote: stjrm
            That's when OURS make a reliable rocket for submarines,

            And I already wrote!
            Why climb into an area in which we are not pros?
            SLBM with liquid propellant engine, this is our "strong point"
            Now the technologies of the control system and the central engine are completely different, such a loaded tank is not needed.
      2. stjrm
        +1
        20 December 2013 12: 53
        Yes, no, and will not be in the coming decades, as I think, an effective missile defense system that allows you to shoot down launch missiles. Look at the map, at least the Sea of ​​Okhotsk (to me it’s just sweeter smile ) Can you tell where they will shoot? Could there be a missile defense carrier that no one knows about?
        It’s good to observe the launch of a rocket from the missile support vehicle, knowing where the firing ship is, what course it is on, the exact time when the launch will be and a fairly narrow sector in which the flight of the practical rocket and head will take place. And if you don’t know all this?

        And the R-29RKU (01,02), R-29RMU (2) missiles are already technical perfection. Our "partners" treat them and their speakers with great respect. And they are very happy that we do not have many such ships and that the intensity of the BS is not great. (This summer I talked with one former theirs ... wink )
        1. postman
          0
          20 December 2013 20: 52
          Quote: stjrm
          Can you tell me where they will shoot?

          North Cape, SM-3, Block 4,5,6
          There is a wonderful record of the Norwegian about the test launches Mace

          +
          The Northern Arctic is now "free" to visit (it is our own fault, "thanks" to Shevardnadze, in my opinion

          Quote: stjrm
          And if you don’t know all this?

          Well, approximate launch areas are known after all. Or?

          Quote: stjrm
          In the summer, I talked with one of their former ..

          I talked in 2012
          1. stjrm
            +1
            20 December 2013 21: 19
            There is no U. Postman, what is known about the areas of launching practical missiles, this is understandable. Although they are changed periodically.
            The areas of combat service they can presumably be known. Well, like in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk. But where exactly and how - it does not even refer to "00".
            Practical shooting, it can be carried out from a strictly limited, relatively very small area, in a strictly defined sector in the direction. This is all for security reasons.
            Yes, I just forgot to say there, after draining the oxidizer, the rocket is only for unloading.
            1. postman
              0
              20 December 2013 22: 58
              Quote: stjrm
              Yes, I just forgot to say there, after draining the oxidizer, the rocket is only for unloading.

              I'm talking about what.
              and for solid propellant rocket engines?
              except to let the gyroscopes "run out" and de-energize, nothing is needed.
      3. stjrm
        +1
        20 December 2013 17: 32
        Here about the accident with missiles (I quote only starting with R-29)

        "The operation of modern intercontinental sea missiles shows that their accident rate mainly depends on the quality of personnel training, as well as on the design features of the missile system and the missile itself, and not on the type of fuel. For example, during operation in order to improve safety and reduce the impact subjective factor on the D-9RM complex and its modernized versions, a set of measures was implemented that ensured trouble-free operation.

        As a result, the number of emergencies decreased. For complexes with intercontinental missiles in absolute numbers, it amounted to: for D-9 - 72, for D-9R - 25, for D-19 - 16, for D-9RM - 7. If we take into account (in a first approximation) the number of exploited missiles and to divide the accident numbers given by the number of missile shafts deployed, we obtain the following relative accident values: D-9 - 0,26, D-9R - 0,11, D-19 - 0,13, for D-9RM - 0,06– 0,07. Both relative and absolute numbers of accidents do not testify in favor of solid fuel missiles.

        Over the past 25 years, there have been no accidents with marine missiles, including the period of intensive operation of modern liquid rockets of the R-29R and R-29RM types. The accident, which is sometimes attributed to the R-29RM rocket, took place in 1989 during tests on the Hippopotamus and it happened not with a rocket, but with its layout. The cause of the accident was a design error (the corrosive properties of the material of the pressure signaling tube in the fuel simulator medium were not taken into account, as a result of which its patency was impaired) in combination with violation of the operating documentation that led to the shutdown of the pressure blocking indicators.
        The consequences of recent missile accidents involving submarines are more dependent on the architecture of the submarine, and not on the type of fuel used. So, for example, the accident with R-39 in a submarine of project 941 in 1991, connected with the destruction of a rocket, occurred after an abnormal pressurization of a missile shaft, and not an interstage compartment when two malfunctions were combined.

        The destruction of the rocket was accompanied by the ignition of its engines and a powder pressure accumulator. The cowlings on two mine shafts were torn off, the acoustic cover of the light hull burned out, some of the copper pipelines in the wheelhouse burned out, the propeller was slightly damaged, the special hydraulic control pipes of the emergency mine cover were destroyed inside the compartment (this mine was decommissioned after an accident). It should also be noted that the consequences could become almost catastrophic if during the accident the maneuver “urgent immersion” that removed the destroyed rocket from the submarine would not have been performed.

        In the case of earlier accidents with liquid-propellant intercontinental missiles, damage to the submarine's structures also did not lead to serious consequences (in 1976 and in 1977, R-29). In an accident with an R-29R missile on a submarine in 1982, emergency systems were involved (draining the oxidizer, irrigating the emergency mine) and the damage was minimized. There were no accidents on R-29RM missiles. "
    3. postman
      +1
      20 December 2013 00: 00
      Quote: stjrm
      Why Americans do not have rockets on VT. Not at all because they made the safety of their missiles the main criterion. But also because they could not do something like Makeevsky missiles.

      ================
      LGM-25C Titan II (On its basis, the Titan II GLV and Titan 23G launch vehicles were developed
      http://www.encyclopediaofarkansas.net/media/gallery/photo/titan_launch_f.jpg
      Number of steps 2
      Length 31,4 m
      Diameter 3,05 m
      Starting weight 154 t
      Cast weight 3 kg
      Type of fuel liquid, aerozine / dinitrogen tetroxide
      Maximum range 15 000 km
      Head type Monobloc, Mark 6
      The number of warheads 1
      Charge power W-53, up to 9 Mt
      Mine basing method

      Quote: stjrm
      . Why Americans do not have rockets on VT.
      ...
      BECAUSE!!!
      September 19, 1980 at the silo 374–7 of the 374th strategic missile squadron of the 308th strategic missile wing (Little Rock air base)When carrying out work to increase the boost pressure in the oxidizer tank of the second stage, the technician who performed the work dropped the 20K socket head of the socket wrench, which, flying about XNUMX meters, pierced the fuel tank of the first stage.The calculation of the starting position was evacuated after the arrival of a team of specialists to liquidate the accident. A reconnaissance group of 2 people sent to the mine recorded the presence of explosive components in the silo. They did not manage to fulfill the order to evacuate the reconnaissance group and the emergency team - an explosion of 110 tons of self-igniting components of fuel. The shock wave of the detonating first stage pulled out a closed reinforced concrete protective device of the mine (cover) weighing 740 tons, and the second stage together with the standard warhead Mk.6 c nuclear the W53 were thrown out of the mine. The damaged second stage flew out of the mine and exploded with 26 tons of toxic fuel. As a result of the second stage explosion, a 4-ton warhead was thrown into the air by 200 meters, and collapsed in the fall. 1 and 21 more people were injured. ICBMs and the mine were completely destroyed (the mine was never rebuilt). About 1400 residents were evacuated from the five-mile zone around the mine, however, according to official data, no radioactive products were leaked.
      After the last Titan 1987 rocket was removed from combat duty in May 2, the last W53 warhead was dismantled by 1988.

      Original: Titan II Missile Explosion
      http://www.encyclopediaofarkansas.net/encyclopedia/entry-detail.aspx?entryID=254
      3
      1. stjrm
        +2
        20 December 2013 11: 40
        Dear Postman!
        Why don’t I remember, but which of the American submarines is carrying the Titan missile? belay
        After all, I meant the RK on the submarine.
        About "it is theoretically possible to play off ...."
        Not theoretically, but actually it can be done.
        Of course, an APP of a liquid rocket is more complicated and longer than a TT rocket, this is understandable.
        By the way, during the APP there are already two pressurization, preliminary and prelaunch, yes.
        The story about the "key flight" made me especially happy, yes. This means that not only we have disasters due to negligence and slovenliness. The thing is that when working with a rocket in our mine (maybe the Yankes are so stupid that they don’t do it, which is hard to believe), special mats are laid around the rocket, tightly fitting to the rocket. This is so that an accidentally unscrewed bolt does not get stuck between the shock absorbers and the side of the rocket, but does not scratch the paintwork or, God forbid, rip it open. And the whole set of tools, designed for working with a rocket, it has bracelets. Well, it means that they do not drop it on a rocket or into a mine. Like this. And to monitor the implementation of all these measures is usually the KGU BCh-2 (the commander of the control group) and the KBCH-2 itself.
        While loading a rocket in Sovetskoye, when the rocket is tilted into a vertical position, a bolt suddenly falls from the boom of the Daugava rocket carrier. So hefty, it seemed to me that he fell forever. Everyone who stood on the rocket deck froze, I don't remember who, but put it succinctly and succinctly, piz ...! But, strangely lucky, he did not come. Just a little shuffled in the area of ​​the first stage oxidizer tank. He didn't even peel off the paint to metal. Industry, after inspection, allowed shipping.
        It would be closer to me to hear about the accident with a rocket, on the BDR, in Kamchatka in 1982. Well, this is when in the final part of the rocket remained in the mine, and the other part, together with part of the second-stage fuel tank, naturally with the instrument and heads flew to the side ..... So to speak, ".. the falling rocket was smoking ..". There are no casualties or destruction. What are the Americans to me then? wink
        1. postman
          0
          20 December 2013 17: 19
          Quote: stjrm
          After all, I meant the RK on the submarine.

          Well, I did not understand, I assumed that in general. SEALED, sorry.
          about LRE:
          Practical work on creating a rocket engine was started in 1921 by the American R. Goddard, who a little later, in 1926, launched a small rocket with a rocket engine.
          Quote: stjrm
          Not theoretically, but actually it can be done.

          Yes, but after that the BR will have to be sent to the manufacturer, if I am not mistaken on the mainland it was impossible to "refuel" and check the TNA and fuel fittings.
          OR?

          Quote: stjrm
          The story about the "key flight" made me especially happy, yes

          it was a WONDERFUL VIDEO (real shooting) -Removed ... (whether the term, or something else)
          Quote: stjrm
          The thing is that when working with a rocket in a mine, we

          I personally saw TWO ruined mines on Baikonur (in the environs) ... with human casualties (I don’t remember the details now), in one I filled TK with tiles from Buran, which were dumped there

          Quote: stjrm
          Daugava "suddenly, a bolt falls.

          1.Well, there is justice in the world. It pleases. I know your feeling ... we had a "minor" spill of NDMG at the joint venture for the S-200 ... everything passed by, but even in the OZK, thoughts became ticklish ... we before that, the frog was lowered according to the second timer. I don't remember for 10 seconds or a little more
          2. Here, by the way, about the protection against missile defense (on the active part essno) BR with LRE.
          BOLT!!! all under the influence of gravity
          Quote: stjrm
          in the BDR, in Kamchatka in 1982.

          I’ll try to draw a story from our nerd about the same (almost) on Baikonur
          1. stjrm
            +1
            20 December 2013 17: 50
            The missile system and the rocket, allows after pre-ampulization to carry out several prelaunch preparations. If the start did not take place, then the product can still be stored for several months in the mine. Then naturally unloading. The oxidizing agent merges.
            According to NNDMG, if the memory does not change the maximum concentration limit of 0,0015 mg per 1 cube?
            If a bolt on a solid rocket rocket ...., the result would be less dangerous, but the rocket is all one minus.
            The whole thing needs caution smile
            1. postman
              0
              20 December 2013 19: 17
              Quote: stjrm
              The oxidizing agent merges.

              1. making a drain, we reduced the supply of the TK — we can not drop the PN at the required range — SIE is critical (not always, but still).
              (about the environment and other dangers of calculation .. I’ll keep silent)
              2. "launching" the THA - we begin to develop its resource (the component is toxic, THa - the resource of work = max. Minutes) - which can be critical for the performance of a combat mission
              3. The same with fuel valves.
              I have never heard that after such "manipulations" the ph would remain on the database ...
              True, I didn’t have SLBMs-xs

              Quote: stjrm
              According to NNDMG, if the memory does not change the maximum concentration limit of 0,0015 mg per 1 cube?

              http://topwar.ru/18583-primeneniya-geptila-i-at-v-mirnyh-zapuskah-ekonomiya-ili-
              vred.html
              Quote: stjrm
              Had a bolt on a solid rocket.

              do not care. probably it will be on the drum even if you shoot from the AKM (my assumption), because the case is not only the case itself but also the TT charge, which never burns to the END (on a controlled path), separation occurs earlier.
              This is due to the peculiarities, since the thrust (impulse) is proportional to the combustion area
              I can’t pretend to say ... but it seems to me there are cases when they were dropped in the ground, in the literal sense.
              As an example:
              RDTT ISS Spey Shuttle .... rattling (into the ocean) from such a height, with decent speed, being towed by sea ... check, refueling = ready for reuse
              from the rocket to the rocket engine this will not drive
  15. +2
    19 December 2013 12: 15
    stjrm !!
    I completely agree with you. By the way, sewed SSBN off the coast of the United States, with the advent of long-range ballistic missiles, they do not go. Therefore, in my opinion, even if something, God forbid, would happen, the Northern Fleet would have had the strength and resources to provide assistance to the wounded submarine cruiser. Still, the Barents Sea is not the Central Atlantic.
    1. stjrm
      0
      19 December 2013 21: 30
      And the Sea of ​​Okhotsk will soon become inland .... wink
  16. The comment was deleted.
  17. +7
    19 December 2013 15: 31
    Everyone is good with the Bulava except for one thing - it still flies once, which for strategic missiles means only one thing - she does not fly

    "Sharks" should be used as platforms for long-range anti-ship missiles and strategic missile launchers, to be developed... If the fleet had 100500 ships of different displacement, then at least the Sharks would have evaporated, no difference.

    But when every ship is considered in the fleet, destroying what can be used is simply wrecking
  18. +3
    19 December 2013 17: 30
    "monstrous" as the author of the P-39 writes, they frightened the Americans so much that they were ready to do anything so that they were not, and with them the "SHARK" during one of the shootings of these missiles, after the twentieth successful launch, American observers were green from fear and anger ran away from the deck !!! but remind me how many successful launches were made by Comrade Solomonov's brainchild ??? no matter how good the project 955 is, but it is unarmed !!! IMHO
  19. +2
    19 December 2013 17: 36
    And again !!! "SINEVA" is a very complicated and expensive rocket, but it flies !! "BULAVA" is simpler and cheaper, but it does not fly! from what such strategic considerations, the main weapon of the new boats was chosen what does not fly ??? This is in any way "effective managers" had a hand!
  20. +2
    19 December 2013 17: 56
    I would like to believe that BS "Boreya" in 2014 will be held without incidents. And a series of these nuclear submarines will really become the backbone of the Navy
  21. +3
    19 December 2013 19: 14
    Quote: Magellan
    1. low-altitude quasi-ballistic trajectory of "Bulava" (in this case, the lower energy of the TT rocket went to her advantage) 2. Fire the laser at the supercharged unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine fuel tank. Or simulate a close explosion of an anti-missile - a solid-propellant missile has a better chance of surviving

    For a "low-altitude" trajectory, just a higher energy is needed. And "Low" it is rather arbitrary. All the same goes into outer space. And there (ONLY THERE) she can be hit with a laser. But she goes there after OUT.
    And anti-missiles bring down only warheads. And they are the same for liquid and solid fuel rockets. So there is no difference in the type of fuel to overcome missile defense.
    And the "fuel tanks" work out their still in the atmosphere, where laser beams from satellites do not penetrate. And potential friends don't have many lasers. If there is any.
    Here a colleague quite rightly remarked that ampouled liquid rockets were no less reliable than solid fuel ones.
    And nobody canceled the vibration on the boat. And it is from them that the cracking of solid fuel charges occurs over time.
    What attracts rockets with solid propellant rocket propulsion for mobile missile systems is non-toxicity. It's true.
    But, by the way, Makeyevites can also make solid-fuel missiles. Their technical solutions for the layout, transition compartments, "recessed" nozzles, which they implemented in their time in Bark, and today no one makes. Bark's unsuccessful tests were due to failures in the control system. And then Solomonov hurried in advance in order to pull funding over to himself. But he could not make a sensible rocket. And his Poplars - rather awkward missiles for mobile launches - are too long. He cannot do otherwise. That is why 8-axle PU with its Topols can be considered "mobile" with great stretch. And all because of the long missiles.
    So you can expect the Mace for a long time.
  22. Volodya Sibiryak
    +2
    19 December 2013 19: 32
    I consider Monsieur Kaptsov a popularizer of the fleet, I read all the articles with interest and wait for new ones to familiarize myself, thanks to the author for his work!
  23. +4
    19 December 2013 19: 46
    Quote from the author: "in terms of the specific impulse of a liquid-propellant rocket engine, it always surpasses solid propellant rocket engines (a liquid-propellant rocket with the same mass of fuel will fly further than a solid-fuel rocket). exceeds 3500 m / s. "
    Then the author got excited. And he lowered the rockets with the solid propellant rocket engine too much. The specific thrust impulse (in fact, the flow velocity) at 2500 m / s was only 8k98 with steel bodies 50 years ago. Current solid propellant rocket motors with organoplastic bodies reach up to 2800 - 2900 m / s. And LRE on high-boiling components give out no more than 3200 - 3300 m / s. But such a difference is also a lot. Therefore, it is more important not that a liquid rocket flies further. For boat missiles, range is not so critical. You can swim to a likely friend. It is more important that a liquid rocket with the same mass is smaller in size (liquid fuel is denser) and (most important!) Can carry a heavier combat stage. So - equipped with a large number of means to overcome missile defense (false targets, active jamming stations). That is, ceteris paribus, a liquid rocket to overcome missile defense is more effective.
  24. 0
    19 December 2013 19: 46
    Quote from the author: "in terms of the specific impulse of a liquid-propellant rocket engine, it always surpasses solid propellant rocket engines (a liquid-propellant rocket with the same mass of fuel will fly further than a solid-fuel rocket). exceeds 3500 m / s. "
    Then the author got excited. And he lowered the rockets with the solid propellant rocket engine too much. The specific thrust impulse (in fact, the flow velocity) at 2500 m / s was only 8k98 with steel bodies 50 years ago. Current solid propellant rocket motors with organoplastic bodies reach up to 2800 - 2900 m / s. And LRE on high-boiling components give out no more than 3200 - 3300 m / s. But such a difference is also a lot. Therefore, it is more important not that a liquid rocket flies further. For boat missiles, range is not so critical. You can swim to a likely friend. It is more important that a liquid rocket with the same mass is smaller in size (liquid fuel is denser) and (most important!) Can carry a heavier combat stage. So - equipped with a large number of means to overcome missile defense (false targets, active jamming stations). That is, ceteris paribus, a liquid rocket to overcome missile defense is more effective.
    1. postman
      0
      19 December 2013 22: 49
      Quote: AlexA
      Then the author got excited.

      At that I gave him these numbers, yesterday, at night, from memory.
      in any case, about 30%, and the point is this:
      separate storage (oxidizing agent and fuel) allows you to use the most energy-intensive fuels as well as optimal Km, during the combustion of which huge amounts of energy are released. The high temperatures that arise Do not threaten combustion chambers. Unlike solid propellant rocket motors, the duration of which is limited by overheating of the walls, in the LRE the walls of the combustion chamber can be cooled with liquid fuel, which then goes to the nozzles ... well, etc.
      composite rocket solid fuel (SRTT) parameters:
      http://rudocs.exdat.com/docs/index-49453.html?page=8

      Quote: AlexA
      Current solid propellant rocket motors with organoplastic bodies reach up to 2800 - 2900 m / s.

      ?

      Eeee
      IA is an indicator of effectiveness jet engine. BUT NO RN (rockets)
      Theoretically, the specific impulse is equal to the rate of expiration of the combustion products
      and it’s not connected with the material of the rocket’s body, but is connected with the chemical composition, T and P in the short circuit and the nozzle, pressure (well, T and humidity os naturally) on the nozzle exit

      ICBM MX LGM-118 Peacekeeper UI MARCH RDTT from Hercules made of Kevlar epoxy composite by winding= 3090 !!! (in vacuum)
      for ammonium perchlorate + binder NEPE
      and at the steering (EXIT) LPRE 2550 !! (in vacuum) for monomethylhydrazine and nitrogen tetroxide.
      (the case is the same)?
      Quote: AlexA
      Therefore, it is more important not that a liquid rocket flies further.

      in principle, launchers with LRE throws more (payloads more).
      Quote: AlexA
      More importantly, a liquid rocket with the same mass is smaller in size

      Dimensions are MORE !!
      1.Large mass of thrown PN
      2. Dimension (length) of the combustion chamber + cardan suspension + TNA
      Recall "Blue" -March engines of the stages are liquid-propellant rocket engines (LRE), "sunk" in the tanks. ("Drowned" KS)
      The mass of the rocket is 40,3 tons, the mass of the head is 2,8 tons, Length - 14,8 m diameter - 1,9 m
      UGM-133A Trident II (D5)
      Length, m 13,42
      Diameter, m 2,11
      Maximum take-off weight, kg 59 078 The maximum thrown weight, kg 2800
      or

      GM-118A Peacekeeper

      Rocket Diameter: 2,34 m
      Missile assembly length: 21,61 m
      Curb weight: 88,443 t
      FILLED MASS (
      Weight dilution step (PN) = 3,81 tons:
      curb breeding stage (without KSP PRO, BB / warhead and head fairing): 1,179 t
      combat equipment (AP / warhead): 2,131 t
      KSP PRO: 0,5 t

      BZHRK UR-100N (Stiletto)
      Weight: 105600 kg
      Diameter: 2,5 m
      Length: 24/23 m
      Thrown weight: 4350 kg

      It would be 2,4 m difference in length ....
      But the joke - the head fairing was "folding"
      ===============
      and now compare their maximum ranges, km
      1. postman
        0
        19 December 2013 22: 49
        3. Dimension No. 2
        in solid propellant rocket motors, you can "sink the" nozzle "into
        Thiokol SR118 mid-flight engines (1 stage) and Aerojet Strategic Propulsion solid propellant engines (2 stage) and Hercules solid propellant engines (3 stage) at LGM-118 Peacekeeper HAVE PARTIALLY REINFORCED AT COP (in solid propellant rocket engine) nozzles (controlled by REQUEST- masterpiece)
        "partially" recessed in a cc or tank NOZZLO for a liquid propellant engine is ... nonsense, technical nonsense, and not realizable
        Quote: AlexA
        (liquid fuel is denser)

        ??
        AT + UDMH 1,195 g / cm2 (I really do not take all sorts of Oxygen + hydrogen)

        Combined fuel RDTT TR-N1178: 1,710 g / cm2
        and where is the "denser liquid fuel" ????
        + see item 4.
        4. Dimension No. 3
        in LRE, fuel and oxidizer are separated (AS RULE, well, except for single-component ones), and these are:
        two tanks + a lock m / a + compensating volume + fittings + filling, drain and bleed valves (top and bottom points) and so on.

        Combined fuel RDTT TR-N1178: 1,710 g / cm2
        AND??? With what fright "is it more dense"?
        Quote: AlexA
        That is, ceteris paribus, a liquid rocket to overcome missile defense is more effective.

        only on the final site !!
        as well as solid propellant rocket engines have an advantage over rocket engines for missile defense:
        - less active area (less weight, less operating time, different trajectory)
        - less gabbare (probability of "hitting the target")
        -lower flame temperature (IR visibility), because less energy component
        - less radar visibility (case), case composite, no cardan, TNA, nozzle and CS made of metal
        - more durable (for both kinetic and high explosive, high explosive or radiation exposure): a solid propellant rocket engine is not only a housing, but also an array of a fuel bomb ..
        and the rocket launcher body is a filigree, THIN-WALL (milled, waffle) construction made of LIGHT (weak) metal, WHICH CAN'T LOSE TIGHTNESS IN ANY EVENT (strength + boost pressure — stability of the operation of the TNA and the LRE as a whole)
  25. postman
    0
    19 December 2013 21: 30
    Quote: Author
    Those. Consultation Specialist - Postman

    Touched. And maybe I do not agree !!!
    1. 0
      19 December 2013 21: 55
      Excuse me, comrade, but these were your calculations

      / and in general, say thank you for not reporting where you need to lol although it should! various wise men go here, confuse Holy Russia with fables about Western technology /
      1. postman
        0
        19 December 2013 22: 59
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Excuse me, comrade, but these were your calculations

        Nice thing ... I, maybe, my permission for the operation (ugh PUBLICATION) did not give
  26. +3
    19 December 2013 22: 07
    Among the other attributes of the new generation boats is the highly sensitive spherical antenna of the SJSC “Irtysh-Amphora”, which covers the entire bow of the ship. The use of this scheme, characteristic of foreign submarines, indicates a change in the entire paradigm in the domestic shipbuilding industry: special attention has been paid to the means of detection.
    Here the author gives out wishful thinking. This is true for the initial design. http://paralay.com/955/955200.jpg There the antenna GUS REALLY TAKES THE ENTIRE BOW. But on the built boats the bow of the submarine pr.971 was used, which is clearly visible in the photo. Visible are located in the bow TA, PU GPA, torpedo loading hatch. And so the SPHERICAL antenna simply does not fit there (on Yasen, where such an antenna stands, TAs are moved closer to the midsection). http://paralay.com/955/955201.jpg And therefore such information is more reliable:
    SJSC MGK-600B "Irtysh-Amphora-B" ("Irtysh-Amphora-Borey") of a new generation developed by the Central Research Institute "Morfizpribor" (Concern "Oceanpribor", St. Petersburg, R&D 1980-1987, produced by plant "Priboy") consisting of:
    - conformal large-sized main antenna "Amphora" with digital signal processing using digital libraries of the automatic target classification system "Ajax-M"; According to unconfirmed reports, the GAS "Skat-09551M" is installed on the submarine of pr.3, the use of the GAS "Irtysh-Amphora-B" is expected on the submarine of pr.09552. GAS "Stak-3M" is a modified main antenna GAS "Skat-3" (used on PLA pr.971) combined with the hardware and information part of the "Irtysh-Afmora-B" complex, including optical columnar information transmission lines and a durable capsule with equipment for primary information processing.

    http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-338.html
  27. +1
    20 December 2013 03: 59
    Quote: Povshnik
    Quote: VohaAhov
    The main task of these boats is staff reduction. For example, the state of Arkansas ...

    The main task of these boats is to carry databases, and they are at the pier, and their maintenance is expensive.

    Such boats "downsizing" can be produced at the pier.
  28. 0
    20 December 2013 07: 33
    Good informative article! good
  29. tooth46
    +1
    20 December 2013 17: 41
    Let me put in your three kopecks. The article is interesting, the comments to it are no less interesting. A question from the landlord jumped up: are they too frank in their comments? I understand that the possession of information entails a keen desire to share it, this is well known. It can be seen with the naked eye that some of the expressed moments are drawn to "00", in any case, in the service they had and have the appropriate vultures. And the information on this site is being analyzed by enemies. Maybe be careful, eh?
    1. stjrm
      +1
      20 December 2013 18: 09
      Yes brost smile In the specialist I ran through the comments, there is nothing that deserves not only "oo" but also "o". Everything is in open sources.
      But if an insidious enemy suddenly finds out that when working with a rocket in the mine, it is not bad to lay mats, preventing foreign objects from falling into the mine or that the tool must be attached to the hand ..... well, let woodpeckers use it. smile
  30. +1
    20 December 2013 17: 57
    , Do not despair so much about the use of parts of the cases. This is a normal and global practice. No normal, unworn metal is sent to remelting. The same states used backwater from Sea Wolf and Ohio for Virginia. And this is done not only for the fleet.
  31. +1
    20 December 2013 19: 28
    Quote: Postman
    recessed in the cop or tank the nozzle for the rocket engine is ... nonsense, technical nonsense, and not realized

    With the density of liquid fuel - here I just confused. I admit it.
    IN MAKEEV'S ROCKETS THE WHOLE second-stage LRE is TOTALLY located in the OXIDATOR TANK of the first stage. it is in fact a realized construction.
    Quote: Postman
    Theoretically, the specific impulse is equal to the rate of expiration of the combustion products and is not connected in any way with the material of the rocket body, but is related to the chemical composition, T and P in the short circuit and nozzle, pressure

    WHIT is associated with the DEGREE OF EXPANSION of the gas in the nozzle. At the upper stages, it can be provided even at low pressure in the chamber by lowering the pressure at the cut (increasing the cut area) as long as the stage diameter allows. And at the first stage, the cutoff pressure is slightly below 1 atmosphere. The expansion ratio (flow rate, WSP) can be increased ONLY by increasing the pressure in the chamber. This increases the wall thickness and body weight. There comes a moment when the increase in WIT is "eaten" by the increase in the mass of the body. The rocket itself "cannot drag". This ultimate pressure is easily calculated. The maximum allowable chamber pressure depends on the specific strength of the body material. Steel beats durable - 25 km, for titanium - 40 km, for organoplastics - more than 100 km. The mass of the body made of organoplastics grows more slowly with increasing pressure in the chamber. And you can raise the pressure, which means - increase the WIT. So the UIT depends on the material of the body at the first stages in a decisive way.
  32. +2
    20 December 2013 20: 07
    Quote: Postman
    IA is an indicator of the efficiency of a jet engine. BUT NO RN (rockets)

    And what, the formula of Tsiolkovsky has already been canceled? What decree of the President? I somehow missed.
    The speed at the end of the ATU (ceteris paribus - the flight range) is determined by the SPEED OF EXIT (PS) multiplied by the logarithm of the ratio of starting and final mass. Or is the flight range no longer a characteristic of MISSILES?

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