Military Review

Villains or heroes of the Fatherland?

32
One criterion - a personal contribution to the cause of strengthening and prosperity of the Russian state


A lot of old problems and troubles have accumulated in our army over the past decades, which, it seems, have begun to be solved. The military budget is growing. The Armed Forces are quickly rearming, changing their appearance. Military increased salaries. A long-term housing epic, painful for people in uniform, ends. Today the army at first glance looks much better than a few years ago. But one of the unresolved, old, overripe is the question of the ideology, spirit, glorification of its military stories.

Any army cannot exist without an idea, traditions born from it and, of course, heroes. This is like a refueling for military equipment, when the most modern aircraft loaded to the eye of ammunition does not take off if it has dry tanks. Our army’s ideological “tanks” are not empty, but so many differently “fuel” are surprisingly mixed in them: from high-quality kerosene to, excuse me, donkey's urine, that its longitude, range and safety of its “flight” should be doubted.

Name Rosa Luxemburg

At the time of the birth of the Red Army, which arose as if out of the blue, in the pantheon of the glory of its heroes, who inspired the revolutionary fighters to the feat, was gaping emptiness. The first, in the absence of their own, were the heroes borrowed "over the hill": Spartak, Marat, Robespierre, Rosa Luxemburg, Karl Liebknecht, Clara Zetkin ... This is not counting, of course, the founding fathers of the Red Army themselves: comrades Trotsky, Lenin, Stalin and others , whose names were called airplanes, armored cars and armored trains. Popular were then the popular rebels Stepan Razin and Emelyan Pugachev, who fought with the autocracy for the freedom of the working people. In 30-s, thanks to radio and cinema, the names of the “first marshal” of Voroshilov, Budyonny, Chapaev thundered all over the country ...

In connection with the unsuccessful beginning of the Great Patriotic War, time demanded a change of heroes for the soldiers and commanders of the retreating Red Army. Luxembourgers and libknechts, as well as Trotsky and others, who by then were enemies of the people, former party allies, were archived. And one of the frosty days of November 41 in the central square of the country almost forgotten names sounded from the rostrum of the Mausoleum: Alexander Nevsky, Alexander Suvorov, Dmitry Pozharsky, Dmitry Donskoy. For a long time, all of them were listed as hostile elements, representatives of the exploiting classes.

With the enemy in the same trench

Alas, with the end of the war, the revision of the ideological policy did not happen. It’s just that the “ideological trench” along with the former domestic revolutionaries and insurgents turned out to be a loyal Tsar servant Alexander Suvorov, who was persecuting the troubled Poles (who became our allies), the thief and the kata Emelku Pugachev. Or the holy blessed Prince Alexander Nevsky, known not only as the winner of the Germans and Swedes, but also as the initiator of the suppression for the interests of all of Russia of the uprising raised by the Novgorodians. However, this is not the only incident, stumbling block standing in the way of the return of the Russian army to its true origins and true heroes.

On the eve of another significant event - the Decembrist uprisings, I would like to consider closer people who for a long time were almost models, standards for Soviet officers of later generations, who became dull and incomprehensible to the images of Chapaev and Voroshilov, who gradually migrated into anecdotes and bikes.

The Decembrists, though considered “terribly far from the people,” were nevertheless favored by Soviet propaganda as the “right” nobles — people of honor, conscience, and duty, who decided to rid the people of the hated monarchs by establishing a democratic republic. Who has not heard of the support of their ideas by young Pushkin, other beau monde workers of that time? Who has not watched the film “The Star of Captivating Happiness,” did not read books romanticizing their feat of self-sacrifice for the sake of a bright future? And how was it really? What kind of people were these? We will use some documents of that era, including the memoirs of eyewitnesses, contemporaries, and protocols of their interrogations.

Stars of deceptive happiness

So, what did their commanders promised the soldiers, giving the order to go to the Senate Square in connection with the need to swear allegiance to Emperor Nicholas, who came to the throne instead of his brother Constantine who had refused him? For example, captain Alexander Bestuzhev, without batting an eye, lied to his guards dragoons: “Konstantin sent me to you. If you believe in God, you will refuse to swear to another king than the one to whom you swore allegiance ... "And Lieutenant Anton Arbuzov, who commanded the naval guards crew, frankly blackmailed his subordinates:" An entire army stands in the vicinity of the capital, and we will be destroyed if we swear oath to Nikolai. " By the way, “Long live the Constitution!” - soldiers deceived by officers shouted, believing that this was the name of Konstantin Pavlovich’s wife.

Villains or heroes of the Fatherland?After Nikolay Pavlovich’s attempt to persuade the rebels to surrender, which ended in a firefight, the governor of the capital, army favorite of Infantry General Mikhail Miloradovich, departed to the rebel troops. He addressed the soldiers who knew him well - the veterans of the Patriotic War with the simple question: “Which of you was with me at Kulm, Lutzen, Bautzen?” Those, hiding from shame eyes, were silent. "Well, thank God," exclaimed the general, "that there is not a single Russian soldier here!" After these words of the beloved combat general in the ranks of the rebellious troops, there was a noticeable excitement: among the grenadiers there were many of his comrades, participants in the glorious foreign campaign. And then dismissed from the army in due time for “noise and various indiscretions ... failure to pay money to the pastry shop and laziness to serve”, Lieutenant Peter Kakhovsky treacherously shot into the back of the national hero. First he coolly killed the commander of the Life Guards Grenadier Regiment, Colonel Nicholas Styurler.

Only after that, Nikolai Pavlovich ordered the use of artillery that put an end to the rebellion. A few days later, the Chernigov regiment stationed in Ukraine rebelled. However, here the situation got out of control of Lieutenant Colonel Sergei Muravyov-Apostol and Lieutenant Mikhail Bestuzhev-Rumin, who had led the rebellion, for another reason. Their subordinates (about a thousand people), after drinking heavily, apparently, for the courage of wine (184 buckets), began to rage, tearing off their epaulettes from officers, robbing civilians. They were beaten and the regimental commander, Lieutenant Colonel Gustav Gebel. They brought to life only gun volleys.

Heroes from the inside

What did the Decembrists want all the same, who often appealed to God as the highest authority? Graf de Toll noted in his notes: “On the more than a hundred Decembrists living in Chita, only thirteen remained Christians, most of them were fond of Christianity either indifferently, or skeptically, or outright hostile ... They often mocked faith and especially observance of holidays , fasting and prayers. " But this did not prevent them from remaining fighters for freedom. And what is interesting: all the Decembrists were noble landowners, had serfs. And although Alexander I, at the beginning of his reign, issued the law “On Free Plowmen”, according to which landowners could release the peasants to the will (and always with the land), the freedom-loving Decembrists for some reason did not rush to use it. But the imperial general Miloradovich fallen from their hands did it at once, freeing all his peasants.

Well, what did the Decembrists see Russia of the future, freed from the despot tsar? Prince Sergei Trubetskoy was appointed to lead the rebel forces during the uprising, who were given the rights of a dictator. That is, in the event of their victory, Russia was not expected by a republic, not by democracy, but by a military dictatorship by the junta. The ideologue of the uprising, the author of Russkaya Pravda, a program document for the Decembrists, Colonel Pavel Pestel, believed that “gendarmes would be sufficient for the entire state to compile the internal 50 000 guards ...” And with the stranglers of freedom - the Romanovs, the number of gendarmes hardly reached five thousand. Further, the freedom-loving and free-thinker would consider deploying a network of secret agents and sex-workers: “Secret investigations and espionage are therefore not only permissible and lawful, but ... one can say the only means by which the highest piety is supplied.” It is felt that the rebels were strong-willed, resolute and probably very persistent and courageous people.

Is it so? Not really. For example, the failed dictator Colonel General Staff Prince Trubetskoy in the fateful day did not appear at all on the square. During the investigation, he first denied everything, and when, during the interrogation, irrefutable evidence was brought against him, he fell at the feet of the emperor and begged him for mercy. The same Pestel wrote penitential letters from the chamber of the Peter and Paul Fortress: “... I cannot justify myself before His Majesty. I ask only for mercy. ” The murderer Peter Kakhovsky confessed to his sovereign during interrogation: “My intentions were pure, but I see that he was mistaken in his methods. I do not dare ask you to forgive me of my delusion. I am already torn to pieces by your mercy to me ... "The romantic uprising is the poet Alexander Odoyevsky, who exclaimed on the square:" We will die! Oh, how glorious we will die! ”, Being in bonds, began writing denunciations of all the participants in the conspiracy known to him. And in this he was, alas, not alone. Perhaps the most disgusting thing that they gave out was not only the organizers, but also their subordinates, soldiers, who had been shot down by them for insurrection. However, the money needed for the “holy” uprising, the officers took the gentlemen from the same soldiers, not shunning to get into the regimental cashier.

"Deep in Siberian ores"

Interestingly, the prisoners were not beaten, tortured, or humiliated. During the investigation, they were put in solitary cells of the Peter and Paul Fortress, shackled and transferred to bread and water. Only five of them were executed, and the remaining 120 members of the uprising from among the nobles were sentenced to hard labor and settlement for various periods in Siberia. But they committed a state crime, a military coup, planned to take the life of the monarch, his family members, killed several people. For such things in other democratic countries they would be threatened with something more terrible. For example, in good old England, where only for talking about changing the laws of Her Majesty Colonel Edward Despéradi in 1807, they first hanged it, but after a minute they took it out of the loop. Then he had the entrails torn out, which were thrown into a fire laid out in front of him. And only after that he was beheaded, and the body was quartered.

And, finally, a lot of tears and wails have been shed over the bitter sufferings that the unfortunate "in the depths of Siberian ores" underwent. And what was really? Two years later, the shackles were removed from the Decembrists and the hard labor became something of an occupational therapy for them. “In the summer,” an eyewitness testifies, “a moat fell asleep, the watchmen and servants of the women bustled around, carrying folding chairs and chess to the work site. The guard officer shouted: “Gentlemen, it's time to go to work! Who is coming today? If there were not enough volunteers, the officer imploringly said: “Gentlemen, have anyone else add! And then the commandant will notice that very little! ". The watchmen carried shovels. Arriving at the place, having breakfast, drinking tea, playing chess. The soldiers settled down to rest. The warders finished the prisoners' breakfast. When exiles, as is well known, lived wives. Gradually, the husbands received permission to visit them first, and subsequently moved to live with them from the prison. It should be added that many Decembrists had a serf servant with them. For example, princes Volkonskaya and Trubetskoy for 25 people.

On the day of his coronation, 26 August 1856, Emperor Alexander II the Liberator, meanly killed then by the followers of the Decembrists, pardoned all those involved in the events 14 December 1825.

It is necessary as soon as possible to deal with the villains and heroes in national history, to separate the wheat from the chaff. There should be one criterion: a personal contribution to the cause of strengthening and prospering of a single powerful Russian state, its stability and security. No supranational interests such as proletarian internationalism, European integration or world globalism, the ephemeral ideas of freedom, equality and fraternity should not weigh over the just and legitimate interests of the state-forming Russian people.
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32 comments
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  1. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets 26 December 2013 08: 49
    +7
    An attempted coup and seizure of power, nothing more.
  2. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 26 December 2013 08: 58
    +11
    But I happened to read somewhere that when Mikhail Andreevich pulled out a bullet and it turned out that it was from a pistol, he said: "Thank God not a soldier, now I will die in peace." And generally speaking about the Decembrists, I think it is correctly written in an article that a military dictatorship or a junta in the Pinochetta style would await us. In general, why did Alexander I put a pig on Russia in the form of his brother, an outspoken liberal of the moronic kind of Constantine? he liked "enlightened Poland" where he could play like in a sandbox. Nicholas I can be kicked as much as he wants for his conservatism and hatred of various kinds of revolutionaries, and indeed, his stupidity in Hungary in 48 cost us dearly, but we must remember that the young The sovereign had to start right away with firing cannons, and this is probably a little unsettling.
    1. washi
      washi 26 December 2013 13: 49
      +3
      Quote: Standard Oil
      Why did Alexander I plant a pig in Russia?

      Why did he kill his father?
      The Romanovs (cats) as they were corrupt with ... we remained. Their individual representatives may have done something for the benefit of the population of Russia, but these are exceptions.
      Why didn’t they enthrone the descendant of the Rurikovich - Pozharsky?
      1. Siberian German
        Siberian German 27 December 2013 05: 01
        0
        well, if there is scratching, then in them from Romanov’s blood there may not be anything — Alexander and Pavel — whose granddaughters and sons
    2. unclevad
      unclevad 26 December 2013 16: 55
      +2
      "... but you have to remember that the young sovereign had to start right away with firing cannons, and this is probably a little unsettling."

      The Decembrists really made their contribution to the development of "democracy" in Russia. If they had not started a confusion, it is unlikely that Nikolai I would have been called Nikolai "Palkin". When such responsibility is heaped on you "out of turn", and moreover they immediately arrange a putsch (by strangeness, without killing at an accidental meeting), then willy-nilly you will get stress for the rest of your life.
    3. Uhe
      Uhe 29 December 2013 01: 45
      0
      That the Decembrists, that Alexander were Masons, so it was the internal showdown of the Masons, the enemies of the Russians and Russia. They looked at the Russians as if they were, but dreamed of the West. The legs of liberalism grow out of Masonic ideas.

      Surprisingly, it was Nicholas 1 who ordered the search for Russian epics, songs, legends in the villages, collect and study them. It was with him that the nobility began to familiarize themselves with Russian culture :) For this he must be said "thank you".
  3. svskor80
    svskor80 26 December 2013 08: 59
    +10
    The poet of the uprising, Alexander Odoevsky, exclaimed in the square: “We will die! Ah, how gloriously we will die! ”, Being in bonds, he began to write denunciations to all participants in the conspiracy known to him. And in this he was, alas, not alone.

    People are the same at all times. Back in school, I was surprised like bloody tsarism, and I was punished almost bloodlessly for such a serious speech against the government.
    1. pahom54
      pahom54 26 December 2013 10: 41
      +8
      for svskor80
      We can also recall the trial of Vera Zasulich, who shot at the Governor-General of St. Petersburg for “insulting the human dignity of her lover, an anarchist student,” by ordering to flog him with rods for boorish behavior (note, the student was already a prisoner) ... The bloody tsarist regime justified her ...
      Try to pull the governor’s grabber now ...
      1. Hitrovan07
        Hitrovan07 26 December 2013 20: 12
        +2
        Mdaaa, there are so many grabbers among EP - at least use machine guns.
        And the most forgetful thing is that they themselves "first choose" - and then they "catch". Is this sport like that among the ruling elite?
      2. Hitrovan07
        Hitrovan07 26 December 2013 20: 12
        +1
        Mdaaa, there are so many grabbers among EP - at least use machine guns.
        And the most forgetful thing is that they themselves "first choose" - and then they "catch". Is this sport like that among the ruling elite?
    2. Uhe
      Uhe 29 December 2013 01: 47
      0
      Because at school you did not know that they were masons of one or close lodges. They didn’t know, right? ;)

      Just the so-called. the Decembrists carried their disputes out of the shadows of secret societies to the square. Hence the "soft" punishment. Believe me, now it seems to us mild, and at that time and for the nobles from one sect, the punishments were very severe.
  4. Boris55
    Boris55 26 December 2013 09: 25
    +6
    The Russian army has just defeated Napoleon.
    The Decembrist uprising is the first open confrontation of the Masons of legitimate authority.

    From Pestel's speech: "The main and initial action is the opening of the revolution by means of indignation in the troops and the abolition of the throne. The Synod and the Senate must be forced to declare a provisional rule with unlimited power ..."

    It was their attempt to subordinate Russia to their interests in a different way.
    1. Uhe
      Uhe 29 December 2013 01: 49
      0
      The "legal" government was exactly the same Masonic as the Decembrists :)))
  5. predator.3
    predator.3 26 December 2013 09: 29
    +6
    Yes, all of them were Masons, Russian spill, even the organization was first called "free masons".

    Masonic lodges consisted of at least 23 people: P.I. Pestel (1812-1819), A.N. Muravyov (1811-1818), brothers Matvey Ivanovich (1816-1820) and Sergey Ivanovich (1817-1818) Muravyov- Apostles, N.M. Muravyov (1817-1818), Prince S.P. Trubetskoy (1816-1819), F.P. von Vizin (1820), Prince S.G. Volkonsky (1812), M.F.Mitkov (1816-1821), F.P. Shakhovskaya (1817), M.S. Lunin, N. Bestuzhev (1818), brothers Wilhelm (1819-1822) and Mikhail (1818) Küchelbecker, G.S. Batenkov (1818), A.F. von der Briggen (1817), Yantaltsev (1816), S.G. Krasnokutsky (1816-1818), N.I. Turgenev (1814-1817), K.F. Ryleyev (1820-1821), E. Musin-Pushkin (1821), I. Yuryev. In addition, it is known that the members of foreign Masonic lodges were the Decembrists V.A. Perovsky, P.P. Kaverin and N.I. Lorer.

    It can be argued that at least a fifth, i.e. 20% of the Decembrists committed to the Supreme Criminal Court were members of Masonic lodges. In addition, a number of persons were still Masons - members of the Decembrist secret societies involved in the investigation as witnesses. Among them: P. Ya. Chaadaev, Prince I. A. Dolgorukov, M. N. Novikov, F. N. Glinka, Prince P. P. Lopukhin, P. I. Koloshin, Count F. P. Tolstoy, General P. . S. Pushchin, V. Glinka, I. Bibikov, V. N. Bakunin, Baron G. Korf, N. V. Meyer, A. Skalon, F. V. Gurko, I. N. Khotyaintsev, V. F. Raevsky, Prince S.P. Trubetskoy, V.L. Lukashevich, G.F. Olizar, Prince M. Barataev, V.P. Zubkov, S. Proskura, Count P.I. Moshinsky.

    Thus, even according to the most minimal estimates of Masons, there were at least 50 people among the Decembrists. “Further research,” historian V.I.Semevsky, who first introduced these figures into scientific circulation, expressed hope, “one must think that the number of persons in which the direct connection of Russian political secret societies with Masonic ones was manifested will increase even further” http: //www.gumer .info / bibliotek_Buks / History / masony / 12.php
  6. pahom54
    pahom54 26 December 2013 09: 44
    -7
    I read the article and thought ... So, the author tried to dispel another myth about the "defenders" of Russia and its people ... debunk, debunk, debunk ... And what happens in the end? Suvorov is also an enemy - of course, he chained the troublemaker Pugachev into shackles and brought the queen, and so on, and so on ...
    Before debunking, you need to think about the fact that, roughly and simply put, an idol, totem, banner, banner, guiding ray of light in the dark kingdom ALWAYS was, is and is needed to educate modern generations, including modern officers. And the people whom we have always been presented with as examples of service to the Fatherland should not be forgotten, there were just ordinary people like ourselves, and each had its own flaws, so to speak, each had its own skeletons in its closet. If you inflate something, then among people not only in Russia but throughout the world there will be no person worthy of imitation. And now I, having read the article, thought and sit, scratching turnip ... But the truth is, here is the example of whom to educate modern future and present officers ??? !!! My dads, but in fact, there are practically no such examples (this is based on the logic of many modern authors who tirelessly debunk the halo surrounding the historical personality of Russia).
    So I want to ask a question to the authors of such works a question: to whose mill are you pouring water, gentlemen-comrades ??? This direction of "coverage" of our Russian history is even worse than various swamp gatherings with their political commentaries, these "coverage" try to show that Russia does not have a glorious history and glorious people worthy of imitation.
    Such an attempt to comprehend Russian history will not bring to good. So I'm sitting, I think, scratching turnip ...
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 26 December 2013 10: 09
      +8
      Quote: pahom54
      Here, the author of another myth about the "defenders" of Russia and its people tried to dispel ...

      Nothing is particularly debunking here, I remember when I was still at school when I was asked a question when passing this material through history, but what did they do in the revolution that they were so extolled? An attempt at an ordinary coup against the backdrop of the change of the king failed.
      1. pahom54
        pahom54 26 December 2013 10: 34
        +1
        Vladimirtsu
        In fact, I’m not talking about exactly what the author debunks the Decembrists, I also asked myself a question at school, but in fact I say that many different authors are constantly trying to prove to ME and other people that how Russia lives shitty, even its heroes are not for imitation - that’s what it is about. And the fact that this coverage of our history will lead (if it has not already led) young people to the idea that, as always, there are no heroes and prophets in their Fatherland ... And this is impossible. For that matter, then, as with the Bolsheviks, heroes must be created to follow.
        And then, although we are talking here mainly about the military side of social life, but why not create positive images of people of work and not bankers, and, for that matter, positive images of military heroes are not in the image of a Marshal General, and a lower rank ...
        If we talk about serving the Fatherland in modern time - then what, we don’t have such heroes? There are, only for higher boyars they are not heroes at all, but ... cannon fodder ... In general, the essence of the problem is not in the Decembrists, are they bad or good, but much deeper ...
        1. andru_007
          andru_007 26 December 2013 20: 13
          +2
          The turmoil in historical affairs is certainly in the face, and this is not surprising since in the last hundred years Russia has officially twice: after the revolution of 1917 and the collapse of the USSR in 1991 (and in my opinion four times, do not forget 1941 and 1956. ), changed its ideological dogmas (respectively giving birth to new and demonizing old heroes).
          In the face of more than one breakdown of dogma, lack of ideologists and real waging, against our country of information warfare, the confusion in the minds of not only society but also historians is not surprising.
          Although, in my opinion, glimmers of hope are visible!
          Firstly: there is a society’s request for ideology (this is why the ever-growing popularity of Stalin’s personality is not surprising);
          If you ask yourself why Stalin? I will answer. As it turned out in 1941, the people did not want to die for Marx, Engels and Klara Zetkin ...
          In an appeal to the Soviet people, he turned to historical memory.
          - ... May the courageous image of our great ancestors - Alexander Nevsky, Dimitry Donskoy, Kuzma Minin, Dimitry Pozharsky, Alexander Suvorov, Mikhail Kutuzov inspire you in this war! May the victorious banner of the great Lenin overshadow you! ... (from the speech of I.V. Stalin of 07.11.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX)
          Stalin ideologically reconciled white and red, built his Red Empire!
          It is a pity, but it was 1956 later, when Khrushchev began to destroy the ideological foundation and in 1991, the Red Empire, which was sought by the liberals, was crushed ...
          Secondly: at least timid, but symbolic, attempts by the authorities (so far in the person of Putin) to reconcile all periods of our history are heard. Such attempts include the Munich speech of the GDP and the quoting of Stalin and the recent message on traditional values ​​(and this excuse me is a hint of ideology)
          Thirdly: the voices of statesmen are getting louder (in this direction I like the work of members of the Izborsk club).
          What do we have in the dry residue? Personally, I see the struggle, the struggle of the patriots (I will not be afraid of the word) with liberal scum. Our history is one of the fronts of the struggle. Yes, you may have to give a new assessment to the old names and events, rethink something, raise someone from the ashes, but the most important thing is to overcome that crying evil that distorts our Great (no need to fear these words) story!
      2. valerii41
        valerii41 27 December 2013 20: 11
        -2
        It was the Bolsheviks who made heroes of them, mostly serf-owners, bums, idlers, slackers in philosophy. In the Soviet "popular" editions, friction on the estate was noted. Here is who and how at home and abroad at the expense of our ridges
    2. creak
      creak 26 December 2013 10: 57
      +7
      Well, let's continue to present such an example of service to the Fatherland as a person like Kakhovsky, who vilely killed the hero of the war of 1812 Miloradovich, who really gave his whole life to serving and protecting Russia. A good example to imitate and educate the modern generation. And Suvorov is our pride, an example of serving military duty - be it the war with the Turks or the French, the suppression of uprisings in Poland or Pugachev .... His profession was to defend such a homeland ... But the Decembrist uprising is the same attempt at a palace coup as those that brought Catherine and Elizabeth to power, only unsuccessful .... And there is no need to bring a glossy textbook gloss on adventurers ....
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. pahom54
      pahom54 26 December 2013 11: 56
      +3
      Here again I scratch turnip - why is it minus? In general, it’s not boring life, there is always something to think about ...
      1. dmb
        dmb 26 December 2013 15: 13
        +5
        Congratulations, you have more to scratch than your opponents. Much of what I wanted to write is reflected in the comments pol 1972. The reasons for "Nikolaev's humanism" are quite objectively stated there. Therefore, I will turn to the author. A graduate of a political school, who has absorbed the devotion to the party and the people, Mr. Ilyushchenko reproaches the Decembrists for "betrayal." That's for sure: "Whose cow would bellow," - In August 1991, having forgotten "the text of the Oath, he successfully retrained into Orthodox ideologists and not so long ago told us that if Orthodoxy had not been, we would never have defeated anyone. This is perhaps his only independent thought, and the rest of the text he shamelessly stole from their books by Bushkov, without even bothering to refer to the latter.
    5. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 26 December 2013 17: 47
      +3
      Quote: pahom54
      So I'm sitting, I think, scratching turnips ..

      Read, you will not regret: http://esper.narod.ru/ru/emp/herz.htm (Naum Korzhavin)
      Love for Goodness to the sons of nobles burned a heart in dreams,
      But Herzen was sleeping, not knowing about evil ...
      But the Decembrists woke Herzen.
      He did not sleep enough. Everything went from here.

      And freaking out of their daring deed,
      He picked up a terrible world chime.
      What accidentally woke Chernyshevsky,
      Not knowing himself what he did.

      And that one from sleep, having weak nerves,
      I began to call Russia to the ax, -
      What disturbed Zhelyabov’s sound sleep,
      And that Perovskaya did not let him sleep.

      And I wanted to fight with him right away,
      Go to the people and not be afraid of rearing.
      So the conspiracy was born in Russia:
      The big deal is a long lack of sleep.

      The king was killed, but the world did not heal again.
      Zhelyabov fell, fell asleep unsweetened.
      But before that he prompted Plekhanov,
      So that he went in a completely different way.

      Everything could get by with the passage of time.
      Russian life could be drawn into order ...
      Which woke Lenin ?!
      Who bothered that the baby is sleeping?
      1. pahom54
        pahom54 29 December 2013 14: 49
        0
        Although a little late in my answer, it's still better than never. I am completely right with the opinion of the author of the poem, and in fact, I wanted to say the same thing where the minuses were pushed to me ... So to speak, I could not convey the idea ... But "What kind of ... ...
  7. Yun Klob
    Yun Klob 26 December 2013 09: 48
    -4
    I respect the Decembrists.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 26 December 2013 10: 25
      +1
      Quote: Yoon Klob
      I respect the Decembrists.

      In the 16 century, peasants in a place with their land were made serfs.
      Decembrists offered to give serfs freedom BUT without land - they broke off.
      In the 17 year of the last century - it turned out ...
      Could you clarify what exactly you respect them for?
      1. Uhe
        Uhe 29 December 2013 01: 51
        0
        The serfs were released without land under Alexander 2, that is, with the grandson of Alexander 1, and not at 17 :)))
    2. IRBIS
      IRBIS 26 December 2013 11: 53
      +4
      Quote: Yoon Klob
      I respect the Decembrists.

      Do you like the name?
    3. washi
      washi 26 December 2013 13: 55
      +2
      Quote: Yoon Klob
      Reply

      You know that the main profession of Bushkov is a historian.
      Yes, and he knows among adequate people there, and access to the Siberian archives (stored in Tomsk).
      I like his series about "Russia, which was not." There and about the Decembrists with all the footnotes and links to sources.
  8. Not hearing
    Not hearing 26 December 2013 10: 24
    -2
    Here is Alexander Sergeevich Pushkin, whose patriotism I personally do not doubt at all, wrote these lines, which, by the way, the author also cites: "In the depths of Siberian ores, keep proud patience. Your sorrowful work and high aspiration will not be lost." He would not write such lines to outright scoundrels, as many now want them to be. Pushkin was a contemporary of events, he personally knew many Decembrists and was their friend, and I trust him more than other researchers. You see, Alexander Sergeevich has a little more merit to the Fatherland than some authors.
    The division itself solely into black and white, ours and not ours, seems unproductive to me. Life is more complicated, multifaceted, and it has more colors. And a number of historical events and persons cannot clearly interpret this good or evil.
    1. Boris55
      Boris55 26 December 2013 10: 32
      +5
      Quote: Not Hearing
      Here is Alexander Sergeyevich Pushkin, whose personal patriotism I personally do not doubt a bit ...

      When the sovereign asked who he would be in St. Petersburg, Pushkin answered - with the Decembrists. To the king’s question why? Pushkin answered - to stop them.
      Quote: Not Hearing
      And a number of historical events and persons cannot be clearly interpreted whether this is good or evil.

      Do you have the same attitude towards a historical person like Hitler?
      1. Not hearing
        Not hearing 26 December 2013 22: 58
        +1
        Quote: Boris55
        When the sovereign asked who he would be in St. Petersburg, Pushkin answered - with the Decembrists. To the king’s question why? Pushkin replied - to stop them.

        Pushkin’s conversation with Nikolai was without witnesses and is known from third parties. And today there are two answers to Pushkin’s tsar. You bring one of them. There are other options, for example, this interpretation of this conversation:
        "This is how in 1848 Nikolai Pavlovich told Count A. F. Orlov and Baron M. A. Korf about this:
        “What would you do if you were in Petersburg on December 14th?” I asked, by the way, of Pushkin.
        “I would join the ranks of the rebels,” he replied.
        To my question whether his way of thinking has changed and whether he gives me the word to think and act differently, if I let him out, he told me a lot of compliments about December 14, but he hesitated a simple answer for a very long time and only after a long silence he extended his hand with a promise to become different. "
        The same question and the same answer, but already from the words of Pushkin, was recorded by his Moscow acquaintance, A. G. Khomutova.
        “... All covered with mud, they brought me into the emperor’s office, who told me:
        “Hello, Pushkin, are you satisfied with your return?”
        I answered him as I should. The sovereign spoke to me for a long time, then asked:
        “Would you take part in the 14th of December if you were in Petersburg?”
        “Surely, Emperor, all my friends were in a conspiracy, I could not help but participate in it. My absence alone saved me, for which I thank God. "
        Quote: Boris55
        Do you have the same attitude towards a historical person like Hitler?

        You give too simple an example, the answer is obvious to any normal person, especially to a Russian. There are two dead in my family. There are persons much more complicated and interesting.
    2. IRBIS
      IRBIS 26 December 2013 12: 00
      +2
      Quote: Not Hearing
      You see, Alexander Sergeyevich merits to the Fatherland, well, a little more than some authors.

      A.S. Pushkin is a poet, undoubtedly a great poet. But what are his merits just before the Fatherland?
      Quote: Not Hearing
      Pushkin was a contemporary of events, personally knew many Decembrists and was their friend ...

      Precisely a contemporary. And, like many nobles of that time, he was "infected" with the bacilli of the French Revolution.
      Read the program of these "friends" of his, there are such points that really raise doubts about their "patriotism" towards Russia.
      Quote: Not Hearing
      and I trust him more than other researchers.

      Do not make yourself an idol...
      1. PPL
        PPL 26 December 2013 13: 45
        0
        ... what are his merits just before the Fatherland?


        And for a long time I will be so kind to the people,
        What kind feelings did I awaken with lyre,
        That in my cruel age I praised freedom
        And mercy to the fallen called.

        A.S. Pushkin
        1. IRBIS
          IRBIS 26 December 2013 16: 58
          +2
          Quote: PPZ
          And for a long time I will be so kind to the people,
          What kind feelings did I awaken with lyre,
          That in my cruel age I praised freedom
          And mercy to the fallen called.

          A.S. Pushkin

          Well, I'll throw a quote:
          "Somewhere in the capital, full of patriots,
          But they feel their homeland better in the trenches ... "
          I. Kreshchenok, "Black Berets"
          1. 11111mail.ru
            11111mail.ru 26 December 2013 17: 59
            0
            Timur Sultanovich Shaov's song "Other times, rereading Galich" says:
            "Who should open a boutique, who should open a trench ..
            And from Tver the country is not visible "
        2. 11111mail.ru
          11111mail.ru 26 December 2013 17: 56
          0
          Yeah, there are earlier things:

          "We will amuse good citizens
          And at the infamous pillar
          Gut last pop
          We'll strangle the last king. "
        3. andru_007
          andru_007 26 December 2013 20: 22
          +2
          What are you noisy about, folk-like?
          Why anathema threaten you Russia?
          What angered you? unrest in Lithuania?
          Leave: this is a dispute between the Slavs,
          Home, old dispute, weighted by fate,
          A question that you will not solve.

          For a long time among themselves
          These tribes are at war;
          More than once bowed under a thunderstorm
          Theirs, then our side.
          Who will stand in an unequal dispute:
          Puffy Lyakh, il true Ross?
          Will Slavic streams merge in the Russian sea?
          Will it run dry? here is the question.

          Leave us: you have not read
          These bloody tablets;
          It’s incomprehensible to you, alien to you
          This is a family feud;
          The Kremlin and Prague are silent for you;
          Pointlessly seduces you
          Fights of desperate courage -
          And you hate us ...

          For what? answer: for whether
          What is on the ruins of flaming Moscow
          We did not recognize the brazen will
          Who were you trembling under?
          For the fact that they plunged into the abyss
          We are idol over kingdoms
          And redeemed with our blood
          Europe, freedom, honor and peace? ..

          You are formidable in words - try it in practice!
          Or the old hero, deceased on his bed,
          Unable to screw up your Izmail bayonet?
          Is the Russian tsar already powerless to speak?
          Or should we argue with Europe new?
          Il Russian weaned from victories?
          Or a little of us? Or from Perm to Tauris,
          From the Finnish cold rocks to the flaming Colchis,
          From the shocked Kremlin
          To the walls of immobile China,
          Shiny bristles,
          Will not the Russian land rise? ..
          So send us to us, Vitia,
          His angry sons:
          There is a place for them in the fields of Russia,
          Among the coffins that are not theirs.

          A.S. Pushkin "Slanderers of Russia"
      2. andru_007
        andru_007 26 December 2013 20: 19
        +1
        Quote: IRBIS
        Quote: Not Hearing
        Pushkin was a contemporary of events, personally knew many Decembrists and was their friend ...
        Precisely a contemporary. And, like many nobles of that time, he was "infected" with the bacilli of the French Revolution.

        I do not agree that I was "infected" with the bacilli of the French Revolution. The verse "To the Slanderers of Russia" clearly illustrates this.
        Quote: Boris55
        When the sovereign asked who he would be in St. Petersburg, Pushkin answered - with the Decembrists. To the king’s question why? Pushkin replied - to stop them.

        That seems to be true!
      3. Uhe
        Uhe 29 December 2013 01: 57
        0
        The merits of Pushkin to the Fatherland, at least in the fact that he preserved for us, albeit in a revised form, those Russian legends about which neither the tsar nor the other nobles heard or heard of. What did the tsar do for Russia, and not for Russia, as a Western project, in the current language, Peter 1? Nothing. The first tsar to start raising Russian at the state level was Nicholas 1. Before that, there were only ascetics like Lomonosov and Pushkin, but never at the time of the state, ideology since the time of Peter 1. The Russian Empire arose as a Western state and according to the Western model , where Russian was considered dirty, masculine, and the western - enlightened and noble.

        But Pushkin thought differently, thanks to his nanny, which is why we Russians are valuable, although he was a freemason himself.
    3. washi
      washi 26 December 2013 14: 12
      +2
      Quote: Not Hearing
      Here is Alexander Sergeevich Pushkin, whose patriotism I personally do not doubt at all, wrote these lines, which, by the way, the author also cites: "In the depths of Siberian ores, keep proud patience. Your sorrowful work and high aspiration will not be lost." He would not write such lines to outright scoundrels, as many now want them to be. Pushkin was a contemporary of events, he personally knew many Decembrists and was their friend, and I trust him more than other researchers. You see, Alexander Sergeevich has a little more merit to the Fatherland than some authors.
      The division itself solely into black and white, ours and not ours, seems unproductive to me. Life is more complicated, multifaceted, and it has more colors. And a number of historical events and persons cannot clearly interpret this good or evil.

      At the same time, Pushkin is almost an official court poet. Decembrists support in words - is still a favorite pastime of the intelligentsia.
      By the way, because of this poem he was made a "genius" under Soviet rule. And who can remember the poems of D. Davydov, D "Antessa and other no less interesting poets.
      Well, there was no TV under the royal authority. So the high society dabbled in rhymes or pampering with females (and separate and male, about which there are indications).
      What can’t you make up to chick a heifer?
      Let's talk about love
      Or maybe about the grandmother?
      How I will spend it for you.
      In the beginning we’ll buy tanks
      then we take the air defense system.
      After all, everything is for you.
      To live a long time.
      To avoid attacks.
      ...............
      And then write yourself.
      After all, are there poets on the site?
      1. SlavaP
        SlavaP 27 December 2013 00: 26
        0
        Ha, Pushkin knew a lot of things and thought about something. And he did not express everything directly. For example, with the hands of Onegin, "He replaced the old corvée with a light yarem; And the slave blessed his fate." Further in the text, "Eugene Onegin", chapter 2 verse 4.
        And the fact that all the Decembrists were Freemasons is no secret. But I do not know of any attempt to declare Pushkin a Freemason.
  9. pol1972
    pol1972 26 December 2013 13: 51
    +2
    The author evaluates the actions of the Decembrists as a state crime based on the norms of modern law, completely ignoring the realities of Russia at that time. In the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, the coup d'etat became almost national fun for the Russian nobility. The court parties seated on the throne Catherine I, Peter II and Anna Ioannovna. Ivan V received the throne by will, but was overthrown by Elizabeth and later killed. Elizabeth bequeaths the throne to Peter III. Overthrown by Catherine and killed. Catherine bequeaths the throne to Paul. Overthrown and killed.
    Nicholas receives the throne according to the will of his brother. Well, how can one not overthrow and kill?
    The moral of the Decembrists was not villainous, but typical of the Russian nobility of that period.
    Well, that they were not tortured, beaten or humiliated or starved in hard labor, this is also a consequence of their belonging to the privileged estate of the nobility. “Corporal punishment shall not touch upon the noble” (Letter of Merit to the nobility of 1785). Nicholas I simply did not dare to encroach on noble rights - he then remembered the fate of his father and grandfather.
  10. Boris55
    Boris55 26 December 2013 16: 08
    -1
    Video on the topic: "About the Decembrists on TVC".

  11. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 26 December 2013 19: 36
    +1
    Our great warriors and commanders of the historical past of our country, Prince Dmitry Donskoy, Saint Alexander Nevsky, A.V.Suvorov, F.Ushakov M.I. Kutuzov, G.K. Zhukov and many other outstanding defenders of the Russian land for the current generation of Russian warriors armies are a model of service to their homeland. Each defended his country in due time. Among them were both boyars and nobles. And if A.V.Suvorov had serfs and he brutally destroyed riots on the orders of the Tsarina, he is a great commander. defender of our homeland and his "Science of Victory" and science to today's soldiers! And the Decembrists who fought against Napoleon are heroes!
  12. Stinger
    Stinger 26 December 2013 22: 19
    +2
    Official villains or heroes become depending on political addictions and relevant propaganda. The people have their own heroes and villains, their ruling. Examples are darkness. I trust the people more. The people are not corrupt, unlike politicians.
    1. Uhe
      Uhe 29 December 2013 02: 02
      0
      That is why the people have heroes - Stenka Razin and Emelyan Pugachev, and not these kings. But from the point of view of the state, they were rebels. For the people - heroes, for the authorities - rebels. Maybe the government was anti-people, so the heroes opposed the government? For some reason, many people don’t even want to think about it - even think about the fact that power can be anti-Russian and anti-people, and that the people have the right to fight such power. Previously, the Russians legally drove out the princes and took others to themselves, and then it was commanded that he got hold of it and do what you want, but no one blathers. This is not a Russian custom.
  13. invisibility
    invisibility 26 December 2013 22: 25
    +2
    And on one frosty November day of 41 on the central square of the country, almost forgotten names suddenly sounded from the rostrum of the Mausoleum: Alexander Nevsky, Alexander Suvorov, Dmitry Pozharsky, Dmitry Donskoy. Before all of them for a long time were considered hostile elements, representatives of the exploiting classes.

    The author himself invented it or suggested who?
    "A. Nevsky" film of 1938, "A. Suvorov" 1940.
    And the 1938 film "Peter the First".
    Where are the forgotten names?
    1. Uhe
      Uhe 29 December 2013 02: 04
      0
      Right. In general, Stalin began to unite tsarist and Soviet history, to find common ground without changing the current ideology, that is, to build the continuity of generations. Continuity is right.
  14. invisibility
    invisibility 26 December 2013 22: 26
    -1
    And this does not include books and theater.
    1. andru_007
      andru_007 26 December 2013 23: 21
      0
      Prelude does not replace the act. And we celebrate birth, not conception ... hi
  15. demotivator
    demotivator 27 December 2013 06: 35
    0
    Quote: Vladimirets
    An attempted coup and seizure of power, nothing more.

    So what? Are they the first? Catherine II, ascended the throne also as a result of a coup d'état, accomplished by the way by the military - the guards. True, before that her lovers had to kill the legitimate sovereign - Emperor Peter III. But this is so, a trifle, who are interested in these details. Then Catherine’s grandson, Alexander I, following the example of his grandmother, participated in a conspiracy against his own father, Paul I, as a result, dad was strangled in his tsar's bedchamber, and his son ascended the vacated throne. And there are a lot of such examples. And everywhere in conspiracies there is a guard, which before that swore an honest and faithful service to the overlord. To whom she immediately willingly cheated, as soon as someone needed it.
    1. Uhe
      Uhe 29 December 2013 02: 07
      0
      The winners write the story, therefore the Decembrists became rebels, and Alexander 1 became the legitimate authority :) Here, if the Decembrists won, they would become the legitimate authority, while this one would become a murderer and usurper.

      Princes and kings were constantly slaughtered. But when they understand each other, this does not arouse special feelings among those in power, but when people try to change their unjust power, it immediately becomes a terrible phenomenon. The power of the minority over the majority. Not the best, decaying minority, unfortunately.
  16. captain
    captain 29 December 2013 17: 06
    0
    Vain people who thought only of themselves.