Pensions and prices. Who will win?

81
Good day to all! After the publication of my note "About income" one of the readers left one very constructive comment. Namely:

pensioner
“It was just a thought to recount the income in some other equivalent. In the absence of a desire to engage in such recalculations, I give it to you ... And secondly (from my point of view, of course), the calculation of income using 1 (one) equivalent is unconvincing, no matter how fundamental it (equivalent) may seem ... In principle, it is I and had a thought. "

Well, rewriting an article just for the sake of it was not entirely from the hand, so the idea arose that "it would be nice to do the same with pensions." By the same thing, we mean the calculation of the growth (or stagnation) of a given statistical indicator not in such sea-demagogic indicators as rubles, dollars, interest, or something else, but directly in physical units. This is what we will do today.

The previous article caused a storm of indignation and emotion in the comments, therefore, in order not to raise the exact same holivar in the comments, I will begin today's article with a small educational program on the main issues identified.

1) Comments of several users were under the general thesis, namely: “The author of the kremlebot, and writes everything by request”, well, or something like that.

A.YARY
“Medvedev’s experiment“ on the “social” norm will soon begin, and our incomes will grow even higher - this is how the author will stick to us. ”

baltika-18
“In-in, to what just gentlemen agitators will not guess. The budget in barrels of oil is considered an increase in our income in liters of gasoline. And all for what? And all in order to prove how everything is beautiful and amazing, we thrive. Hurray, gentlemen or comrades! "

baltika-18
“Does it make sense, Asgard? Most of us already know the situation, judging by the comments and estimates, well, and the author, in my opinion, is useless, service is service. He is not the first time celebrated, the fourth article already. All are united by a common idea, everything is, in principle, good, the problems are small, but they are working on them, the overall dynamics are positive, we are beginning to flourish, the leadership is moving in the right direction, the main thing is stability, soon it will be even better, the main thing is not to twitch, bear and wait . I now wonder, the article about unemployment and migration will he or not? "

Monster_Fat (1)

“He is a troll. From the cohort of praiseware "achievements" of Putinomics. True, all their attempts in the field of economic justification and justification of the actions of the company "effective managers", despite the fact that they sound on different topics and voices, still boil down to one principle - the statement: "Everything is fine, not everything is still" polymers profukali "".

I think the situation is familiar to the pain to everyone who spoke on various resources of a particular trend, contrary to the general trend, be it Echo of Moscow or the blog of a certain “guardian”. In the first and in the second case, the authors receive the label "On Salary" with the only difference being that their employers are different. Moreover, both sides have every reason to assert that they are right. Well, oh well, I suggest everyone who somehow wants to express their opinion on this issue, to do it constructively, namely, pointing to where I lied, good quotes and screenshots are able to do everything.

2) The following thesis sounds something like this: “They are fattening in Moscow, and everything is bad outside the Ring Road”.

INTER
“+ Incomes in the regions, and not only in Moscow and St. Petersburg))))))) As you said there, 28800 rubles in the regions, haven’t heard about this, if 10 is sput, and then bread, many have such an opinion. It’s like a joke: as in our country, the average values ​​are determined, so imagine, two sat down to eat a chicken, one eats, and the other looks at it, it turns out that they ate the chicken equally, i.e. half one, half the other. "

PSih2097
“This is when steep subsidy subjects like the Caucasus will be removed from statistics from Moscow with St. Petersburg, then let them build graphs and tables ...”

If we talk about statistics in Moscow, then I present to all readers such a schedule.

Pensions and prices. Who will win?


I repeat, one can often hear common phrases: "There is no life outside the Moscow Ring Road", "Regions are dying out, and the capital is fattening on their bones." In fact, the trend of income growth is exactly the opposite. In 1999, the income of Muscovites was in 3,6 times higher than the average Russian income. By 2011, the gap was reduced by one and a half times: to 2,5 times. In 2012, the gap was approximately 2 times (2,19, to be exact). But these charts will never intersect, at least while the Kremlin is in Moscow, and not, for example, in Irkutsk.

3) It was not done without such a thesis as "The average is the average temperature in the hospital."

Airman
"The average per capita income of the population is like the average temperature of hospital patients, including the morgue."

homosum20
“The average temperature in the 36,9 hospital. And the morgue is full. Why did it happen?"

What can I say?

A) To begin with, I want to remind you that all analysts - liberal, pro-government or “independent” - use statistics in their works, including averages. That is, often, to prove something bad, the average indicator or any other, taken from the same Rosstat, goes with a bang, but when this method fails, then familiar clichés on the Rosstat lie theme are used and so on. .

B) In the previous article, specifically in order to avoid such comments, all the calculation options were given, up to how many percent of people receive a certain salary in the Russian Federation.

C) Using the tables there, you can cut off the 10% of the richest and 10% of the poorest and calculate the average of them. Changes will be in the area of ​​20-25%, which, in fact, suggests that the thesis about "chicken" or "morgue" itself disappears.

D) Rosstat, in theory, even plays up to those people who do not believe its figures, as it does not take into account gray salaries in principle and is based only on the tax reporting of the individual entrepreneurs, LLC and other organizations, that is, the “white salary”.

4) It is very often possible to meet the following thesis: “The author is lying because I do not see it.”

GDP (Stavropol)
“The proportion of workers whose salary accrued exceeded 25 thousand rubles, on average in the economy increased from 27% in April 2011 to 41% in April 2013. I wonder where these statistics come from. Among my friends somewhere 5% of people who have ZP more than 25000. ... If you are not a military man and not a builder, then the RFP from 25000 is overwhelmingly possible only in senior positions, and then not everywhere ... "

In principle, the discussion can be ended by saying that most of my acquaintances receive from 25000 for qualified work and from 15 for unqualified, for example, as a store consultant. Immediately after this, our conversation will fall into demagogy about who is right or left. About this I wrote in the beginning of the article "On income".

But, in addition, looking out the window, as we are often offered, you can see two men fighting for parking for their new cars, you can see that the pace of housing construction almost caught up with the best Soviet figures, and once built, it means there is someone to buy, Moreover, the house is often bought directly from the pit. You can look at the passenger traffic on air transport, which inexorably creeps up, the same applies to the number of tourists traveling abroad, sometimes with the whole family. So such an indicator as personal feelings, to put it mildly, is biased.

5) Coupled with the thesis “Author on Salary”, you can also find another: “The author has chosen a convenient option”.

baltika-18
“He has one dream. Tear off more. I appeal to the author of the article. Here he assesses welfare in liters of gasoline, and it turns out that the income of the population in liters of AI-92 increased 3,5 times compared with 2000 year. And if you count, for example, the income of the same population in terms of natural gas, so our income fell 2 times. ”

Well, actually, what is the question, let the user who says so simply give me the price of a cubic meter of gas or something else in 1999 and 2012 (of course, with the indication of the source of information), and the question will be cleared. There is no data on this subject in Rosstat, or I didn’t find it, or I looked badly. In any case, this information is also interesting to me.

6) Often some commentators unwittingly confuse theses of the article and their thoughts.

SolomonSS
“I may not have understood something, the author of the article wants to say that the cost of gasoline that we pay is justified? We cannot agree with this in any way. In small towns the salary is 10-12 thousand rubles, in villages it is even less - 6 thousand rubles. And what they say in the news about the growth of salary at a cosmic pace - deception and nothing but ".

I mean, the price of gas is justified, I didn’t write, and in general I think that we have to pay less for fuel, even if not like in Qatar or Arabia, but 20-25 are cheaper per cent than now.

7) But in parallel with this, another thesis appears that "in an oil-producing country, gasoline should cost a penny."

queen
“In the States in general, 12-14 rubles are for ours ... and it is imported. Now we will make a gift to NG, travel to the subway 40 p., Gasoline to 50 p., Utilities at 25%. A pitchfork already sharpen right now. About the tax on cars generally keep quiet, but with insurance so it is generally a complete deception and the imposition of services, housing prices are not from this galaxy. In general, we have stability))) ".

Severomorsk
“Gas prices!
Venezuela - 0,47 rub.
Turkmenistan - 0,68 rub.
Iran - 2,39 rub.
Libya - 4,17 rub.
United Arab Emirates - 12,27 rub.
Azerbaijan - 4,37 rub.
Kazakhstan - 17,97 rub.
USA - up to 18,00 rub.
Russia - 30 rub.


He is echoed by another user with a nickname PSih2097
“Well, we don’t have our own oil, everything belongs to corporations, which, in turn, belong to hell who knows ...”

Here we are dealing with a very tricky stuffing, when they bring out some well-known fact such as the price of gasoline in Arabia, and then they begin to openly lie.
Here here There is a site where fuel data is given for the United States. The price of Regular gasoline is $ 3.228 per gallon, which in terms of ours will be equal to 28 rubles at the CBR exchange rate for December 17 2013 of the year. The same applies to Azerbaijan, where the price per liter is equal 0.95 dollarsthat is, 31 ruble.

What do we see? That's right, lies! Moreover, for some reason, such is often silent oil producing a country like Norway, with the price of gasoline € 1,786, which is equal to 80,72 rub. per liter. Or in Iraq - for 1 dollar.

Considering that the author of the figure took and blatantly lied, I will not analyze the other indicators (in Arabia and Venezuela, the numbers are exactly correct), although, we must admit that prices could be lower.

8) There is another interesting thesis. "In the Russian Federation, there is a huge income disparity."

queen
“So the article was laid out as a pill calming down, but in fact the opposite effect. The rich get richer, the poor fall into the abyss. "

botsman80
“The average per capita income in 2012 was 22880 rubles. That is, the average family (4 person) income is already 22880x4 = 91520 rubles. For comparison: the financial condition of the average German family is estimated at 45000 dollars per year, that is, 45000 / 12x32 = 120000 rubles per month ... almost like ours. But the Gini coefficient in Russia is 41,7, and in Germany - 27. And then there is Moscow and the "regions" (example: average per capita income: Moscow - 48343 rubles, Saratov region - 13948 rubles) ... So do not carry BODY !!! "

The correct inequality indicator is selected - Gini index.
Gini coefficient is an indicator of inequality. Theoretically, this coefficient can take values ​​from 0 to 100, where 0 is absolute income equality, and 100 is absolute inequality, when all the incomes of a country belong to one person. The higher the Gini coefficient, the stronger the income inequality.

The author mentioned developing Russia (41,7) and highly developed Germany (27), and it seems like it's time to shout a guard, but in England this coefficient is 40,0, in China 47,4, in the USA 45,0, South Korea 41,9, and Turkey 40,2, in Israel 39,2, in Lithuania and Latvia 35,5, in France 32,7, in Holland 30,9, EU average 30,7, almost like in Armenia 30,9 ... and why they do not sit at home ??? How it's called? Half-truth - when they show part of the truth to create a certain picture in the head of the reader. So henceforth, I would advise not to write the words "BODY !!!" without full self-righteousness.

9) A separate group of comments is worthy of such a group of comments as "Lies".

GDP (colonel)
"A familiar submariner with no education at all gets 100000 p.".

Does the fleet take no education? Well, at least average? Especially in the submariners.

baltika-18 (army General)
“I appeal to the author of the article. Here he assesses welfare in liters of gasoline and he turns out that the income of the population in liters of AI-92 increased 3,5 times compared with 2000 year. And if you count, for example, the income of the same population in terms of natural gas, so our income fell 2 times. ”

Where does the data come from? I do not have a separate cubic meter, but there is a gas tariff per person per month. And if you express the incomes of citizens in this, you get the following:


As we see, in principle, there is nothing to be happy about, the price steadily follows the growth of incomes in percentage terms, only slightly lagging behind 2009, and being ahead after. But a lie "army general" it does not cancel.

baltika-18 (army General)
“Plus, there are regions where the average is higher than the national average, but there prices are higher, and there are regions where the average is lower than the national average. Ivanovo region for 2012 year - the average 13,5 thousands. And most of these regions.

Average per capita income in the Ivanovo region in 2012 year 15930,1 rub., according to this indicator, it takes place 13 from the end, while in the 31 region of the Russian Federation, this figure exceeds 20000 rubles.

queen
"In the States in general, 12-14 rubles for our ... and it is imported."

Given the links above, the price of US gas from 28 rubles per liter. Shale oil and freebies from enslaved Arab countries make up a large share of US factories, and oil also bobbed around in 90's about the same way.

Known who
"The 1,5-liter bottle of sparkling water in a stall near the house where I live, cost 12 rubles. And now - 40 rubles."

"Bon Aqua" costs 40 rubles, local - 12-20 rubles.

Setrac (army General)

"The average per capita income is calculated by dividing the GDP by the number of souls, but a small part of the GDP for wages is"

Are you sure that is considered so?

Samsebenaum (army General)

“To take revenues in Moscow and Altai Krai ... The difference is 40 times !!!!!!!”

Per capita income in the Altai region 14277,7 rub., the same indicator in the Moscow region is equal to 29699,1 rubles.

Monster_Fat (captain)

“He is a troll. From the cohort of praiseware "achievements" of Putinomics.

In my articles there is no mention of political figures. There is no praise and appreciation, dry statistics. Figures and facts.

soldier's grandson Col.

"The rise in prices is always several times faster than the growth of pensions and wages, prices are rising much earlier than wages and pensions."

How many times have prices overtaken pension growth? Read the article to the end, and find out that you're lying.

If I haven't clarified someone's question, then there are two options:

1) I did not notice him, for which I apologize.

2) An exhaustive answer has already been given to it, to which I cannot add anything, in one of the notes or in the comments in the "Answer" mode.

3) He was from a completely different opera.

Well, now get to the point.

As of April 2013, the average labor pension in Russia is 10400 rubles: this is approximately 38% of the average salary. The retirement age in Russia is 60 for men and 55 for women, so our retirees start receiving a pension on 5-10 years earlier than their peers from Western Europe and the USA. Since 2000, we have managed to reduce the gap in pensions between us and the West from monstrous 50 times to quite decent 2-4 times. In the post-Soviet space, Russia is the leader in terms of pensions. In absolute figures, only the Baltic states correspond to our indicators.



In general, by the year 2013 we can state the successful overcoming of the catastrophe of the nineties. Average pensions grow in 2 times faster than average consumer price inflation, while at the same time, pensions grew faster than 2010. After - slowed to a compensating level.
The state also subsidizes the costs of housing and utilities that exceed 22% of total income. Thus, the average pensioner after paying for average housing and communal services remains average 7000 rubles. If the situation does not change drastically, in the coming years, the average pensioner living in the average apartment will be able to spend about 130% of the subsistence minimum at its discretion after paying utility bills. I can not say that this is more than enough, but knowing that we inherited a lot of debt and an empty pension fund from the 90 liberals, the result looks quite good and inspires healthy optimism.

For those who have forgotten or did not know, let me remind you that after the collapse of the USSR, hyperinflation and the jumping dollar exchange rate put pensioners on the brink of survival. So, in 1995, the average pension was about 48 dollars per month, while it could also be delayed. After the collapse of the ruble in 1998, it became even worse. At the time of Yeltsin’s resignation, the average Russian pensioner received only 29 dollars a month. In addition, the change of the state system led to a huge number of problems with the calculation of seniority.

In Soviet times, the record of service took place according to employment records and the archives of the personnel services of enterprises. At the time of applying for a pension in Russia, many people suddenly discovered that:

a) individual records in labor were recognized as unreadable / invalid;

b) it was difficult to confirm the record with a certificate from the archive of the enterprise, since it could be collapsed or foreign;

c) the archive could disappear or burn completely or partially;

d) sometimes the data could be lost to one particular employee.

As a result, the person lost part of the work experience, which led to a significant decrease in the pension.

In addition, the change in the order of accounting of experience in the USSR and modern Russia led to the ambiguity of accounting for "work experience" for periods of pregnancy and maternity leave, as well as for the period of registration of studies in higher educational institutions (students and graduate students).

A separate negative factor of the nineties was the mass work "without labor", which negatively affected the pensions of workers who retired in the new millennium.

From 2000 to 2012, the average pensions in dollar terms increased more than tenfold, taking into account inflation more than five times. If in 1999, the average pension was meager 449 rubles, then already 2000, it rose to 700 rubles, in 2005, it rose to 2364 rubles, and in 2010 it reached 7476 rubles. On the 2013 year, as I said, the average pension is 10400 rubles.

We now turn to our calculations. Last time, we had a liter of gasoline as a natural unit, but since we are now talking about a very “specific” group of the population, namely pensioners, many of them, if not most, are deeply parallel to how many liters of gasoline they could buy at 1999 year and now. Therefore, we will change our natural unit for goods or products from the so-called "social basket". For convenience, we will call our natural unit word set.

So, in the set for the average senior citizen I included:
1) Boneless beef, kg.
2) Chickens (except chicken legs), kg.
3) Eggs, 10 pcs.
4) Rye Bread, rye-wheat, kg.
5) Buckwheat-Zadritsa, kg.
6) Potatoes, kg.

Let me remind you that we are not cooking soup and are not trying to see how much a loaf of bread, kg of meat or potatoes a pensioner can afford, but try to calculate the average pension in kind, therefore the products from different categories that fall into the category of everyday are taken as The main myth of all-propals is that “the overwhelming majority of our retirees are scavenging and dumping bottles with Olympic symbols“ Sochi-2014. ”Of course, speaking of the situation with pensions at the end of 90 and at the dawn of 2000, and I want to add to this "set" a bit of vodka, but, firstly, it’s against the rules of this wonderful resource, and, secondly, as popular wisdom says: “DRINK IS NECESSARY LESS !!!” (By the way, I wanted instead to add a liter of milk, but on Rosstat some This is a mess with that, with 1999 to 2009 there is “pasteurized whole milk 2,5-3,2%", and then the data disappears, and already there is only pasteurized drinking milk 2,5-3,5% ", which is different in price and taste).

And here we get a graph of price increases for these products for the corresponding period.



In my opinion, it is very clear, and the choice of products is fair enough, although I think the comments will have a lot of advice on what should be included in this set and what should be excluded. Well, actually, “we will see”, in principle, nothing prevents readers from making the same schedule themselves or sharing data with me, or simply giving advice.
As we can see, the rise in prices was uneven for different products, meat was the most expensive, the price of beef went up the most, followed by chicken. I don’t know about pork, I don’t have to eat it, and I don’t want to know how much it costs.

Now we will do the following. Summing up the prices of products over the years, we find out the cost of one set in a single year, then we divide the average pension by the cost of the set and as a result we get the average pension expressed in our "natural unit". I believe that this is even more true than our calculations of average per capita income in liters of gasoline, since the set contains goods from different price niches. So, we get the cost of one set in rubles from 1999 to 2013 years.

But, knowing that without regard to communal services, my calculations will be criticized every second, I tried to "dig up" as much information as possible about tariffs from Rosstat. I’ll say right away that there is a complete mess in the housing and communal services in the Russian Federation, since prices and tariffs vary from one HOA to another, even within the same city and microdistrict. So, here's what utilities services at Rosstat have data from 1999 to 2012 years.

1) Payment for housing for 50 m2 total area.
2) Cold water supply and drainage, per month per person.
3) Heating for 50 m2 total area.
4) Gas network, per month per person.
5) Electricity in apartments without electric stoves, for 100 kWh.

I must say that I did not find any other data. One who wants to polemize on "The author chose convenient options"I ask you to simply quote the prices for certain utility services with reference to the source.

Here is how these prices in Rosstat look.



Now, having data on average pensions for the same period, we will express pensions in our new “natural unit”. And we will do it the next way. From the average pension, we deduct the amount of the costs of the above utilities services (as a communal we pay once a month), namely: 100 kWh of electricity, housing fees for 50 m2 of the total area, cold water supply for the month per person, heating for the total area for 50м2, gas network for the month per person. The remaining amount we divide by "Set" food. Everything constructive comments and tips you can leave in the comments.

So, we look.



Any questions? Everything is clear to me, in real terms in 2012, in comparison with 1999, the pension increased almost 5 times in the year. Moreover, if you exclude beef from the set, the difference will be 7 times, but it will not be fair, since there is a whole list of products that have risen in price, like meat, so the difference in 5 times is the most objective result.
I do not consider the retirement of our grandfathers and fathers great or even fair, in the sense that during the Soviet years they laid the foundation for us, whose durability resource allowed our country after 10 years "New Time of Troubles" fast enough not only to get up on your feet, but also confidently go forward. Someone does not agree, but this ... well, in general, you understand me)))

As I promised at the beginning of the article, I post calculations of average per capita incomes expressed in “sets”. It is important to note that here we use the set number XXUMX - the same as the first one, but only there we added the price of gas from the article "On Income".



Total: in 2012, the average per capita income of the population in comparison with 1999 year increased by 3,2 times. Let me remind you that, calculating revenues only in gasoline, we got the figure in 3,5 (or 3,42, to be exact). The discrepancy, as they say, "within the framework of error."

Conclusions(on current and previous note):

1) The average per capita incomes of citizens of the Russian Federation in physical terms increased approximately 3 times.

2) Average pensions of citizens of the Russian Federation in physical terms increased 5 times.

Offtop output: In Russia, the price of gasoline is significantly lower than in Europe, but, based on the level of production and production volumes, it should definitely be even lower (20-30% is purely subjective).
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  1. +2
    18 December 2013 07: 07
    As for the calculations, how to estimate salaries and pensions! In Europe, the reference to gasoline is quite widespread as gasoline is constantly increasing in price! Products grow in many respects and for fuel and lubricant costs when harvesting and delivering them. In states, some in big maks consider purchasing power parity, the big mama index is stupid, of course, but like any theory it has the right to life laughing
    1. +2
      18 December 2013 07: 22
      Quote: Sid.74
      As for the calculations, what is the value of salaries and pensions!


      You follow the link to the previous article "On Income", it’s just that, it’s calculated there, but I’d better not say anything about the obstruction that fell on the article for this approach) Read it yourself.
      1. +1
        18 December 2013 07: 30
        sledgehammer102 hi ! I read the article on another site. For article + in great detail!
        1. bif
          0
          20 December 2013 00: 10
          Quote: Sid.74
          I read your article on another site. For article + very detailed!
          Join.
      2. VAF
        VAF
        +9
        18 December 2013 14: 16
        Quote: sledgehammer102
        You follow the link to the previous article "On Income"


        Dear author! Your article, what is the previous one, what the current one is .. I will not repeat all the "numerous epithets" that the forum users have awarded her, but I will write simply .. PROFONATION for "people who already .. suck"!

        Are you there, in the Kremlin, stubbornly believing some people who can’t count. Do you write and ... even speak with difficulty? wassat

        According to the first article, you took specifically one Income and one Gasoline and .. "par for the brains of people", but modestly keeping silent about the fact that the increase in gasoline prices immediately pulls and not even immediately, but as soon as there are rumors about this, then "flies "up EVERYTHING !!!!! Although you cannot see this in the "Kremlin" state, you can still have a 60-course portion for 5 rubles in the "cafeteria" wassat

        The second is your pathetic attempt to somehow justify your "proedrosovskuyu" policy .. failed miserably .... because. only one "increase in reasonable tariffs" on housing and communal services .. "eats" all "pension" "increments"
        In general, you are the deepest minus! hi
  2. +16
    18 December 2013 07: 16
    The price of gas to Ukraine is reduced.
    Maidan, in Yatsenyuk’s voice, shouts about a reduction in housing and communal services tariffs in Ukraine.
    What turns out: now will the population of Russia compensate for the losses by raising these tariffs, but already among our population?
    Good layout fellow but where does my wallet?
    1. +3
      18 December 2013 07: 25
      Quote: individ
      What turns out: now will the population of Russia compensate for the losses by raising these tariffs, but already among our population?


      Loans are not given "out of the blue", strategic enterprises and guarantees are laid under them. We gave them in dollars, not in hryvnias, and accordingly, we will have to return them in Baku, or "in kind", factories, GTS, transit, Sevastopol, and a number of other political concessions
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Akatsubasa
        +2
        18 December 2013 08: 33
        Russia has recently forgiven about $ 30 million of debt to Cuba. either out of pure good feelings, or because of the understanding that they will never give up. Ukrainians can also adhere to the same tactics with gas, and now even with these $ 15 billion, without any guarantees or obligations that, in theory, should have gone to the needs of Russia and Russians. This can be regarded as a betrayal of the country, as Gorbachev at one time, when he froze all nuclear development.
        1. 0
          18 December 2013 09: 02
          Ukrainians can also adhere to the same tactics with gas, and now even with these $ 15 billion, without any guarantees or obligations that, in theory, should have gone to the needs of Russia and Russians.


          In 5-6 years, the South Stream will be launched and Ukraine will be doomed to honest behavior, extortion with the help of the GTS will not work. Plus, debt can be collected at the expense of renting Sevastopol.
      3. +3
        18 December 2013 08: 51
        Quote: sledgehammer102
        strategic enterprises and guarantees are laid under them. We gave them in dollars, not in hryvnias, and accordingly, we will have to return them in Baku, or "in kind", factories, GTS, transit, Sevastopol, and a number of other political concessions


        Fear God, what are the guarantees? UkrAin cannot give any guarantees, since it is not a question of whether there will be a default on UkrAin, the question is how quickly it will come.
        No one will return anything to us in any "Baku" ones, not even in hryvnia.
        In kind, factories, gas transportation systems, they will not be returned to the state of Russia, but to oligarchs close to GDP.
        "... by transit, by Sevastopol ... and ... by political concessions" - "The tradition is fresh, but hard to believe", and the legend is already of second freshness. Have you seen a lot of political concessions to Russia from UrAina? Concessions, both political and economic, are exclusively the prerogative of Russia.
        1. +5
          18 December 2013 09: 49
          Quote: Normal
          UkrAin cannot give any guarantees, since it is not a question of whether there will be a default on UkrAin, the question is how quickly it will come.


          OVDPs are Ukraine’s guarantees in case of default. Firstly, for obligations related to foreign currency bonds, the state issues 100 percent guarantees. (unlike ruble (hryvnia). Secondly, these securities can bring investors a big "fat" in case of default, a sharp drop in the hryvnia and, against this background, a sharp rise in the purchasing power of the dollar, especially in the Ukrainian market, where everything will cost Therefore, when Putin invested 15 billion from the NWF into Ukrainian Eurobonds, more precisely, he transferred from American papers to Ukrainian. Of course, the shit will boil that this money was taken from our pocket due to the failure of the pension reform by raising the tariffs for the same gas, They will say that they saved the Ukrainian Svidomites at the expense of the Russians, while no one will explain what the NWF is and remember that the same hated anti-people Putin froze the tariffs of natural monopolies for industrial enterprises and for the population the growth will not be higher than the official inflation rate, i.e. next year it’s 5% and not twenty as it was every year. And what is the NWF? It was just created in 2008 after the resignation of Kudrin and the division of kubysh Ki stabilization fund which lay dead weight in two parts of the NWF and the Reserve Fund.
          National Welfare Fund represents a part of the federal budget funds subject to separate accounting and management for ensuring co-financing of voluntary pension savings of citizens of the Russian Federation, as well as ensuring the balance (deficit) of the budget of the Pension Fund of the Russian Federation.

          according to the Decree of the Government of the Russian Federation of January 19, 2008 No. 18 "On the procedure for managing the funds of the National Welfare Fund"
          "... Debt obligations of foreign countries, in which funds of the National Wealth Fund can be placed, include debt obligations in the form of securities of the governments of Austria, Belgium, Great Britain, Germany, Denmark, Ireland, Spain, Canada, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, the USA, Finland , France and Sweden

          Ukraine is not in this list. And now, on the one hand, Putin is already threatened with impeachment for breaking the bell
          , According to lawyer Dmitry Krainev, Putin, having decided to place NWF funds in Ukrainian securities in violation of existing legal acts, exceeded his authority, which is a serious crime, and an impeachment procedure may be launched against him
          at the same time stirring up excitement with another scam about the robbery of the Russian people in favor of the hated x..ov, on the other hand, the Americans are threatening Ukraine with economic sanctions.
          US Congress threatens sanctions to Ukrainian authorities
          1. +7
            18 December 2013 09: 50
            In fact Russia, on American securities, actually pledged the Ukrainian economy.
            Thus, we took them away not from ourselves, not from our own economy, but from the same West, albeit in violation of our own liberal laws that, for the sake of business, we can introduce the necessary amendment. Transferring Ukraine’s debt to the West as Ukraine’s debt to Russia, the latter strengthens its influence on neighbor’s policy, at the same time saving it from external bondage. And at the same time, he only saves his own money from the hands of hopeless Western debtors.
            Europe can gnash its teeth, threaten with all sorts of punishments, even finally losing face, flood the Kiev Maidan with its authorized political representatives. The only thing the EU cannot do is give Ukraine what it really needs - money. He himself simply does not have them, it is necessary to take from Russia. So why is Russia such a strange zigzag, in which we are blamed for our money, creating an enemy from the fraternal country? No, we are better ourselves, we can support the benefit not only verbally and with much more intelligible prospects.

            In fact, the West found itself in a situation of a famous Russian proverb, when for my rubles I was ....
            1. +3
              18 December 2013 10: 12
              the price of a cubic meter of gas or something else in 1999 and in 2012 (of course, indicating the source of information), and the question will be removed. In Rosstat, there is no data on this score, or I did not find it, or I searched poorly. In any case, I am also interested in this information.


              I can offer Old from the site of Gazprom Izhevsk
              Dynamics of retail gas prices sold to the population of the Udmurt Republic
              link
              Or statistics on gas consumption compared with the EU
              here
              In general, you can find it if you search, the Author plus for the work done, unfortunately did not go deep into both articles because once, the only thing I want to say is that any statistical tool or method of counting in boas, parrots or big macs is fraught with many contradictory and controversial points , with the numbers in hand, you can prove that polymers are all-out or vice versa that everything is kosher, but the truth, as always, is somewhere in between.Not on the side of indiscriminate Putin critics, but not on the side of cheer patriots with pink glasses. Although the blackening of everything and everything in Russian reality is actively promoting a kind of brand and a sign of advancement and creativity.
              1. +1
                18 December 2013 15: 10
                Quote: Ascetic
                Dynamics of retail gas prices sold to the population of the Udmurt Republic
                link
                Or statistics on gas consumption compared with the EU
                here


                Thanks for the link, I will have in the arsenal, now I am waiting for data from another friend for 1999 or 2000 year, now it’s possible purely for Udmurtia
            2. VAF
              VAF
              +1
              18 December 2013 14: 57
              Quote: Ascetic
              Russia, on American securities, actually pledged the Ukrainian economy.


              Stanislas drinks you said a lot of true in pst and naturally it is better to have 6% from Ukraine than 2% from the USA, but .... wink +! drinks
              1. bif
                0
                20 December 2013 00: 16
                Quote: vaf
                Of course it is better to have 6% from Ukraine than 2% from the USA, but ..

                As I understand it, you are a fairly competent and authoritative person (on this resource) in the field of aviation. Sorry for the immodest question ... Do you have an economic education and experience in applying this education?
      4. VAF
        VAF
        +1
        18 December 2013 14: 36
        Quote: sledgehammer102
        strategic enterprises and guarantees are laid under them.


        It's just ... "no comment" belay Author, do you have ... is DIAGNOSIS? wassat
        Although the respected NORMAL tried to "reason" with you below in the comment, but I think .. it's useless wassat
    2. +3
      18 December 2013 07: 32
      Quote: individ
      The price of gas to Ukraine is reduced.
      Maidan, in Yatsenyuk’s voice, shouts about a reduction in housing and communal services tariffs in Ukraine.
      What turns out: now will the population of Russia compensate for the losses by raising these tariffs, but already among our population?
      Good layout, but where does my wallet?


      Follow this link
      sputnikipogrom.com/politics/7318/namitingovaly/

      It’s hard to come up with a better comment for this news.
      1. +8
        18 December 2013 08: 12
        Almost by Nekrasov ... this groan is called retirement ...))))
        Unfortunately, this is the reality ....
    3. VAF
      VAF
      +3
      18 December 2013 14: 28
      Quote: individ
      The price of gas to Ukraine is reduced.


      And 15 more lard ... presented recourse or thrown away request you can at least formulate it, but "the essence of the piano does not play" wassat
      But 80% of members of the forum in the ceiling with boiling water ..... delighted with the "multi-walk of the great PU" request
      What is the "charm"? Or our gas price for lard is 2 times lower for ourselves, and as a result of this, prices for EVERYTHING have decreased and we began to live better?
      And by the way, 15 lard is from the "national heritage" as it were wink

      Quote: individ
      shouting about a reduction in utility bills in Ukraine.


      So in Ukraine they have long been paying for utilities. much less than ours and products. what's in the store. what's in the market .. much cheaper!

      Quote: individ
      Now the population of Russia will compensate for the losses by raising these tariffs, but already among our population?


      That's right .. just not NOW, but AGAIN or AGAIN ... for "delivery2 to China at reduced tariffs, do we pay? And nothing .. although 1 cubic meter was immediately increased by 1 ruble!" wassat

      Quote: individ
      but where does my wallet?


      And when was it different? request HIM .. own wallet) national treasure), and we have our crying
      1. +3
        18 December 2013 14: 39
        Hi Seryoga!
        Quote: vaf
        And by the way, 15 lard is from the "national heritage" as it were

        Well, Ukraine itself, as if part of our country, only torn off temporarily. So here is a double-edged sword, how and what and why request
        1. VAF
          VAF
          +3
          18 December 2013 15: 03
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Well, Ukraine itself, as if part of our country, only torn off temporarily.


          Sanya, hi! Here I agree, but the fact remains the fact .. Ukraine is an independent state, no way .. it is for them to decide and they must make their own choice.
          And the fact that the brothers, yes, that you need help .. yes, only here is help, some kind of one-sided comes out request
          Give a loan, give a gas, give everything, don’t levy duties on Sevostopol too .. give it ...
          Will not be too much?
  3. 0
    18 December 2013 07: 16
    Severomorsk
    “Gas prices!
    Venezuela - 0,47 rub.
    Turkmenistan - 0,68 rub.
    Iran - 2,39 rub.
    Libya - 4,17 rub.
    United Arab Emirates - 12,27 rub.
    Azerbaijan - 4,37 rub.
    Kazakhstan - 17,97 rub.
    USA - up to 18,00 rub.
    Russia - 30 rub.

    In Kazakhstan, gas costs 115 tenge, or 25 rubles.

    In general, the standard of living in Russia (and in Kazakhstan) is approximately at the level of Eastern European countries, and significantly higher than the world average.
    1. -3
      18 December 2013 07: 26
      Quote: Canep
      In Kazakhstan, gas costs 115 tenge, or 25 rubles.

      I’m saying that I didn’t check further, it’s clear that the impurity dump on the fan
  4. +3
    18 December 2013 07: 18
    It is not only this topic that bothers me - our future pensions depend, among other things, on endless pension reforms, after which you don’t even know whether it is worth saving for retirement.
    Each pension reform essentially turns into a soap bubble, and the goal of the reformers is to reduce pension accumulations of citizens in various tricky ways (they simply get into the pocket of citizens).
  5. +12
    18 December 2013 07: 23
    At the beginning of the article, everything is quite convincing. And about statistics and about comments. But I read up to this paragraph
    looking out the window, as is often suggested to us, you can see two men fighting for parking for their new foreign cars, you can see that the pace of housing construction has almost caught up with the best Soviet indicators, and since they are building, it means there is someone to buy, especially since the house often redeemed directly from the foundation pit. You can look at the passenger flow on air transport, which is inexorably creeping up, the same applies to the number of tourists traveling abroad, sometimes with the whole family. So such an indicator as personal feelings, to put it mildly, is not objective.
    and could not resist.
    Yes, men on new foreign cars, but foreign cars, despite the fact that almost all of us are already assembled, are just like foreign cars. In addition, even with an income much higher than 25000, men get into a loan to buy a car, that is, in bondage, given what interest is paid.
    YES, where I live, the pace and volume of housing construction has long surpassed Soviet indicators. But! Despite the fact that houses are already being bought at the stage of excavation, the number of new settlers is very modest. Apartments are redeemed for investment purposes and are empty for years or repeatedly resold. Someone already has a dozen apartments, and someone does not have the opportunity to simply improve housing conditions.
    Yes, the passenger traffic by air has increased. But here is the same system as in averages in statistics. The chief flies abroad 4-5 times a month, and the "manager" once every 1 years. The chef ensures an increase in passenger traffic.
    You can also pay attention to the increase in passenger traffic in the metro and the nationality of those who provide this increase.
    Of course, personal sensations are a subjective indicator, and yet a person lives precisely personal, subjective sensations. Objective reality in sensations is given to us.
    1. -1
      18 December 2013 07: 43
      Quote: Normal
      Yes, men on new foreign cars, but foreign cars, despite the fact that almost all of us are already assembled, are just like foreign cars.


      This is explained by the simple logic of companies.

      1) The cheapest car in the Russian Federation is a VAZ, respectively, any foreign car should cost more, because it is higher in comfort or class.

      2) The degree of localization of production is not as high as we would like, I don’t know the exact numbers, but it is hardly higher than 60-75%, and import parts are taxed, even if less.

      3) In slang, this is called "major", when the price is raised and the demand is looked at, if it does not fall, then it is good, and they do this until demand falls, the same was done by VAZ at the beginning and middle of 00x.

      And in conclusion, in the Russian Federation there are some of the cheapest cars in Europe, it is easily verified op off. sites. I'm talking about cars from scratch, not second-hand drive.
      1. jjj
        -2
        18 December 2013 08: 53
        It is clear that "Logan" is somehow difficult to consider as a foreign car. But. "Logans" are for taxi drivers on the periphery or summer residents. Cars drive along the streets at a price of about 1 million rubles. This is the psychological frontier when one is not ashamed of a foreign car. Such cars are bought not from a salary, but taking a loan. Accordingly, the price rises to one and a half million. But this amount is not paid off in ten years. And the vast majority of car owners are satisfied with this, they manage to service the debt.
        And one moment. There is no excitement in household appliances stores. All who needed it all replaced.
        1. +4
          18 December 2013 09: 30
          Quote: jjj
          It is clear that "Logan" is somehow difficult to consider as a foreign car. But. "Logans" are for taxi drivers on the periphery or summer residents.

          I have Logan. And I'm not a taxi driver, not on the periphery and not a summer resident, but having an income of 10 tr per family member (000 people wife on maternity leave) I had to take about a third of the cost to buy it. Well, that gave a good relationship and without interest.
        2. VAF
          VAF
          +2
          18 December 2013 15: 27
          Quote: jjj
          It is clear that "Logan" is somehow difficult to consider as a foreign car.


          Is it like that? belay

          Quote: jjj
          Cars drive around the streets for about 1 million rubles


          Yes .. in extreme times, a lot of divorced .. especially women, anecdote about a blowjob and traffic cop remember?

          just don’t buy with a full, but a peride in a normal configuration and with a mechanics of 600-700 thousand will fit in easily!

          Quote: jjj
          Such cars are not bought with a salary, but taking a loan.


          A loan, like a mortgage, is a voluntary suicide!
          If you can't bear to buy a "pontovoz", then only on lease!

          Quote: jjj
          And the vast majority of car owners are satisfied with this, they manage to service the debt.


          Who told you that suits you? belay and precisely .. "it turns out", but how sideways this "turns out" comes out .. this can only be told after .. "a glass of tea"!
        3. +2
          18 December 2013 19: 49
          Quote: jjj
          It is clear that "Logan" is somehow difficult to consider as a foreign car. But. "Logans" are for taxi drivers on the periphery or summer residents. Cars drive along the streets at a price of about 1 million rubles. This is the psychological frontier when one is not ashamed of a foreign car.

          You live for cheap show-offs, who has more pipiska? Honestly disgusting for people like you. Many are not ashamed of moving around on old, inexpensive machines, the main thing is to remain a person in any situation. It may be a shame for those who steal, engage in crime, for their actions or inaction at a crucial moment, but not for the car. I have an old Toyota Rafik 4 and in the city I can drive absolutely everywhere and always find a parking place and you know I’m not ashamed and deep in the drum for ponte and pontorez. And I think there are a lot of such people.
      2. VAF
        VAF
        +2
        18 December 2013 15: 17
        Quote: sledgehammer102
        This is explained by the simple logic of companies.


        Never try to cover an aspect of a topic that you don't understand.

        1. VAZ in the Russian Federation is not a car, but .. a vehicle. I’m asking you for an example in a studio where at least some Malomali official or manager visits an autoRF wassat

        2. All car manufacturers of "screwdriver" type are located exclusively in the FEZ!

        3. in slang it is called .. "lobbyism" (this was before joining the WTO), when Yarslavna was crying and customs duties were raised and AvtoVAZ immediately "pulled up" its price for its Buckets.

        Conclusion - write a complete nonsense, because. WE HAVE THE MOST EXPENSIVE MACHINES for US that are imported, that are domestic.
        The most popular Logan starts with 290 thousand, Dzhilik with 360.
        Hopefully prudence is enough not to compare the Buckets with these MACHINES lol

        Quote: sledgehammer102
        not a second drive.

        And we are talking about new ones, but if for second-wheel drive, then .. it’s better to have a 3-5 year old BU, but a car than a new Bucket !!! soldier
    2. jjj
      0
      18 December 2013 08: 43
      People really fly, at least in the European part of Russia. My retired wife flies to St. Petersburg several times a year to visit her granddaughter. On airplanes, the business class is almost always empty. But ordinary salons are almost always full of the most ordinary people. And in summer, the southern resorts are far from full of top managers.
      For some reason, I didn’t live like that in Soviet times.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Akatsubasa
        +2
        18 December 2013 08: 45
        All the same, we have not yet reached socialism. And we won’t live at such a pace)
      3. +5
        18 December 2013 09: 36
        Quote: jjj
        For some reason, I didn’t live like that in Soviet times.

        In Soviet times, we underwent medical examination for free and always once a year. In Soviet times, we did not pay for education and medicine. In Soviet times, we ate maybe not so abundantly and variedly, but natural foods. In Soviet times, housing was accessible to EVERYTHING, just work. In Soviet times ... how many things happened in Soviet times?
        1. +3
          18 December 2013 16: 10
          May I add? And the fact that there was a shortage of goods, so everything was sharpened "for the front and victory", half of the world was credited without compensation. In general, I believe that if it were not for perestroika, but politics would have been a little smarter ... then hell, we would now be inferior at least in something to China.
      4. VAF
        VAF
        +4
        18 December 2013 15: 35
        Quote: jjj
        On airplanes, the business class is almost always empty.


        Do you know prices in business? wink
        Quote: jjj


        But ordinary salons are almost always full of the most ordinary people.


        If so it would be "happiness" for airlines .. in the summer, yes, but in the rest of the period only 60-70% at best!

        So why do not you send your spouse a steam locomotive? Do you want to admit that, among other things, a steam train is more expensive?

        Quote: jjj
        For some reason, I didn’t live like that in Soviet times.


        How is it? belay Rostov-Yekaterinburg cost 27 rubles a ticket .. although .. fly in!
      5. VAF
        VAF
        0
        18 December 2013 15: 36
        Quote: jjj
        On airplanes, the business class is almost always empty.


        Do you know prices in business? wink
        Quote: jjj


        But ordinary salons are almost always full of the most ordinary people.


        If so it would be "happiness" for airlines .. in the summer, yes, but in the rest of the period only 60-70% at best!

        So why do not you send your spouse a steam locomotive? Do you want to admit that, among other things, a steam train is more expensive?

        Quote: jjj
        For some reason, I didn’t live like that in Soviet times.


        How is it? belay Rostov-Yekaterinburg cost 27 rubles a ticket .. although .. fly in!
    3. -4
      18 December 2013 09: 46
      In addition, even with an income much higher than 25000, men get into a loan to buy a car, that is, in bondage, given what interest is paid.


      Big purchases on credit is a world practice. Another thing is that the rates in Europe and the USA are lower than ours.
      1. VAF
        VAF
        +2
        18 December 2013 15: 40
        Quote: 31231
        Another thing is that the rates in Europe and the USA are lower than ours.


        This is the "PR" of the "pro-edrosov policy" belay SLIGHTLY LESS wassat
        At the bottom there is REALLY 3-4% (this is the ceiling, but a real percentage) and for US "start from 15% (declared, otherwise you can get under 60% wassat )
        1. -3
          18 December 2013 20: 17
          Yes, yes, remember your shortcuts. Proedros, putinoids, cheers patriots. You seem to be an adult, and hang labels like a student.
          Banks are private organizations, and they want to, and they turn it around. But of course, Putin is to blame for you.
  6. +3
    18 December 2013 07: 23
    The author did a titanic work on the selection of statistical data. I liked the article. Thank.
  7. +4
    18 December 2013 07: 24
    Incomes of citizens and prices for gasoline. Who will win?-This article is from the same opera?
    And what is there how many times increased or decreased pension in kilograms of tablets?
    1. +1
      18 December 2013 07: 47
      Quote: avant-garde
      And what is there how many times increased or decreased pension in kilograms of tablets?


      Take and count, or at least provide a link to a data source. And so, this is a usual empty call for the absence of arguments
      1. +1
        18 December 2013 07: 55
        If you have not read the article on VO from 16.12.13 entitled "Citizens' Incomes and Gasoline Prices. Who Will Win?"
        Where the author concluded that from 1999 to 2012 household incomes in liters of AI-92 gasoline rose 3,5 times.then you won’t understand why I wrote this wink
        1. +1
          18 December 2013 09: 08
          You are the author and appeal ....
        2. +2
          18 December 2013 09: 43
          Quote: avant-garde
          If you have not read the article on VO from 16.12.13 entitled "Citizens' Incomes and Gasoline Prices. Who Will Win?"
          Where the author concluded that from 1999 to 2012. incomes in liters of AI-92 gasoline rose 3,5 times., then you won’t understand why I wrote this

          I’ll tell you a little secret - the author talked to both articles with you :) Only about this shhh - to anyone! lol
          1. +1
            18 December 2013 09: 48
            Quote: artifox
            Only about this shhh - no one!

            Have agreed wassat
            I was just under the impression I didn’t look at the author, only you don’t lol
            1. -2
              18 December 2013 12: 46
              Quote: avant-garde
              I was just under the impression I didn’t look at the author, only you don’t

              Well, when we figured out XU from XU, I am waiting for your constructive comments.
  8. raf
    0
    18 December 2013 07: 30
    Well done, the author has laid out everything very well! But the "all-proprietors" will still not be happy! After all, if a person is initially negatively disposed, it is not possible to convince him! Well, the Lord is with you gentlemen-comrades "negativists", you like to shout that you are shouting badly, your will! it slowly rises, albeit slowly but rises! And it makes me very happy!
    1. AK-47
      +4
      18 December 2013 11: 29
      Quote: raf
      Well done author .... Russia is slowly rising ...

      And immediately comes to mind the famous phrase:
      1. -1
        18 December 2013 12: 47
        Quote: AK-47
        And immediately comes to mind the famous phrase:


        Well, in fact, everything is clear with propaganda, only to the article what will be the subject of comments? She's lying?
        1. Yarosvet
          +5
          18 December 2013 13: 57
          Quote: sledgehammer102
          She's lying?

          Not - just a camouflage problem. laughing

          What is the REAL cost of living in the country for groups (children, able-bodied, disabled) of the population, and how do the incomes of these groups correspond to it?

          And I repeat once again: what amount do you need for a COMPLETE food during the year, provided that the existing prices remain unchanged and you have no subsidiary farming (the answer "I have enough" - does not roll)?
          1. 0
            18 December 2013 14: 27
            1)
            Quote: Yarosvet
            Not - just a camouflage problem.


            2)
            Quote: Yarosvet
            What is the REAL cost of living in the country for groups (children, able-bodied, disabled) of the population, and how do the incomes of these groups correspond to it?


            3)
            Quote: Yarosvet
            And I repeat once again: what amount do you need for a COMPLETE food during the year, provided that the existing prices remain unchanged and you have no subsidiary farming (the answer "I have enough" - does not roll)?


            Name a specific moment of "camouflage".
            Give specific figures for the rest of your calculations, then we'll talk.

            There should be three responses from you. And not one "chosen one", which is usually used by demagogues.
            1. Yarosvet
              +5
              18 December 2013 15: 45
              Quote: sledgehammer102
              1) what demagogues usually use.
              Self-critical.

              Name a specific moment of "camouflage"
              The average nominal positive dynamics is shown, but there is no correlation with the growth of real inflation.
              The conclusion is based on the principle of pushing the reader to the idea that everything is not so bad (after all, the numbers seem to be talking about this).
              At the same time, the initial incredible understatement of salaries / pensions and the ability of the economy to provide a minimum wage of 30 thousand are not specifically taken into account.
              The conclusion also completely ignores a number of articles of the Constitution.

              2) 10 / 20 / 15

              There should be three answers from you
              To the question about the amount you need for a nutritious diet, should I answer? laughing
        2. VAF
          VAF
          +4
          18 December 2013 15: 59
          Quote: sledgehammer102
          only here to the article what will be the subject of comments?


          So at the very beginning of the tape I wrote my opinion, both articles are complete PROFONATION!

          Quote: sledgehammer102
          She's lying?


          The first is a complete juggling and juggling. Second full LIES! soldier
        3. AK-47
          0
          18 December 2013 16: 35
          Quote: sledgehammer102
          She's lying?

          No, but from this, it’s somehow not easier. hi
    2. 0
      18 December 2013 12: 33
      More capacious name of raguli. Let the arguments be against their forehead, but the strength of the forehead allows these arguments not to be noticed.
  9. makarov
    +4
    18 December 2013 07: 36
    In the conclusions, the author indicates how many times the average per capita income of citizens of the Russian Federation and their pensions have increased, while modestly does not mention how many times the category of essential goods necessary for the existence has increased. I forgot to put panties, socks, soap, powder, toothpaste, slippers, shoes, boots, seasonal clothes, etc. into the consumer "basket".
    The author is sorry for being straightforward, but your conclusions are bullshit ...
    1. 0
      18 December 2013 07: 51
      Quote: makarov
      I forgot to put panties, socks, soap, powder, toothpaste, slippers, shoes, boots, seasonal clothes, etc. into the consumer "basket".


      Underpants and socks can still be bought for 20 rubles, everything else will fit in an amount equal to 25-50 rubles apiece.

      Quote: makarov
      The author is sorry for being straightforward, but your conclusions are bullshit ...

      You will enter the hit parade of "templates" in the next article))) And why is it so characteristic of some army generals)))

      PS. You are the first who so zealously claims that cowards and socks have critically risen in price))) + 100500
      1. +3
        18 December 2013 08: 46
        Quote: sledgehammer102
        Quote: makarov
        I forgot to put panties, socks, soap, powder, toothpaste, slippers, shoes, boots, seasonal clothes, etc. into the consumer "basket".

        Underpants and socks can still be bought for 20 rubles, everything else will fit in an amount equal to 25-50 rubles apiece.

        Dear, please give the address of the store in which I can buy soap, powder, toothpaste, slippers, shoes, boots, seasonal clothing, etc.- all this within 50 belay rubles how do you say
        1. +2
          18 December 2013 10: 00
          I just went to the store today for all this: soap - the cheapest 25, found a toothbrush for only 54 rubles, toothpaste - 83 rubles, bought bread for 38, two cans of stew for 125 rubles. I live in the Magadan region, not far from Magadan, in Kolyma villages it is still more expensive.
          1. +3
            18 December 2013 10: 03
            Quote: vjatsergey
            I just went to the store today for all this: soap - the cheapest 25, found a toothbrush for only 54 rubles, toothpaste - 83 rubles, bought bread for 38, two cans of stew for 125 rubles. I live in the Magadan region, not far from Magadan, in Kolyma villages it is still more expensive.

            Well, you hurried, we would have dear author would have thrown off the address or name of the store where you would have bought all this for 50r, and would have dressed. By the way, I hope that this is a chain of stores in Russia.
          2. 0
            19 December 2013 01: 11
            No comments
            The average salary in Russia is 27339
            The average salary in the Magadan region-52796
        2. -2
          18 December 2013 12: 49
          Quote: avant-garde
          Dear, kindly give the address of the store where I can buy soap, powder, toothpaste, slippers, shoes, boots, seasonal clothing, etc. - all this is within 50 rubles, as you say


          even a cursory reading of my comment catches the eye the phrase "apiece"

          Underpants and socks can still be bought for 20 rubles, everything else will fit in an amount equal to 25-50 rubles apiece.


          And you can buy it in any large network store such as AUCHAN, OK or Vietnamese.
        3. VAF
          VAF
          +4
          18 December 2013 16: 19
          Quote: avant-garde
          please give the address


          Well, so they tell you their "feeding troughs" and .. "opened" wassat Like in Greece ... they have everything ... or according to Kartsev, remember the famous monologue in the special distributor ... "and there are sheepskin coats, and how much do you have?" wassat

          They still believe that for us the benefit is the minimum living wage and the consumer food "basket" fellow

          Here's a dream, honestly ... to collect all this shoblu. Yes and to the island .. and let live on this. Minimum and basket .. although I would have 3 months! soldier
      2. VAF
        VAF
        +4
        18 December 2013 16: 14
        Quote: sledgehammer102
        Underpants and socks can still be bought for 20 rubles, everything else will fit in an amount equal to 25-50 rubles apiece.


        The author ... you are not on Pluk or on the territory of the State of the Garden Ring now.

        The minimum cost of summer men's underwear, in the common people is called men's trys. On the market it "starts" at 250 rubles apiece.
        Normal socks from 50-70 rubles per pair!

        Quote: sledgehammer102
        You are the first who so zealously claims that underpants and socks have critically risen in price)


        You still can’t see the people because of the high red brick wall or windows of a tinted car, not of Russian production, by the way!
        Everything rises in price more than once a quarter, but once a month !!!
    2. raf
      0
      18 December 2013 07: 53
      When calculating the average per capita income, it’s not possible to take everything into account! An unimaginable amount of work will have to be done, and the article will become so large that few dare to read it!
    3. VAF
      VAF
      +3
      18 December 2013 16: 05
      Quote: makarov
      The author is sorry for being straightforward, but your conclusions are bullshit ...


      Ay .. young man, +! drinks
      And in the first article, the author is bread for 15 and milk for 25 belay
      This is the bread that on dry, imporning yeast from which it is moldy, and you can’t eat black at all, because. heartburn such that climb the wall belay
      And milk .. is that with a shelf life of up to 1 year?
      My cat doesn’t go into the kitchens and doesn’t go into the day, after he pours such milk from a bag .. although a 100% natural product is written wassat
  10. +6
    18 December 2013 07: 52
    Gentlemen from the government and the Duma are calculating the increase in the standard of living of citizens of the Russian Federation, based on the growth of their own salaries. She grows with them, like Prince Elisha. fellow
    1. Yarosvet
      +3
      18 December 2013 14: 05
      Quote: Lelek
      Gentlemen from the government and the Duma are calculating the increase in the living standards of citizens of the Russian Federation, based on the growth of their own salaries
  11. +3
    18 December 2013 07: 55
    Quote: raf
    Well done, the author laid out everything very well!

    And to the question posed in the article, (Pensions and prices. Who is who?), He did not answer us. So what if he came to the conclusion that pensions increased 5 times? And how did prices rise? And who is who, as a result? Maybe I’ve been a millionaire for a long time, I don’t know about it yet?
    1. +1
      18 December 2013 08: 11
      Dear, it is not possible for one person to take into account all possible indicators in one article! As one person can take into account inflation, rising prices, rising average contributions to the pension fund, housing prices, gasoline prices, a surplus or budget deficit, rising prices for medicines and do it not for the country on average, but locally in cities and villages! The author will need to put life in order to calculate the rate of this year compared to another! The whole profile committees and departments are involved in this and you demand the impossible about the author! IMHO hi
    2. -2
      18 December 2013 12: 53
      Quote: demotivator
      So what if he came to the conclusion that pensions increased 5 times? And how did prices rise? And who is who, as a result?


      How to explain to a blind man what is green?
  12. 0
    18 December 2013 08: 17
    I am not a fan of the current government, but the author is right and well done, he can defend his point of view.
  13. -1
    18 December 2013 08: 19
    The author, well done, everything is reasoned. Now Yarosvet will come running with pictures and will assure that they lived better in the 90s. And the main indicator for him will be the growth of GDP at PPP.
  14. -2
    18 December 2013 08: 25
    By the way, two or three months ago, Volodin Alexei was worried about the low GDP growth in 2013. Today on TV I saw a report by an international agency. Everyone in the world experienced a decrease in growth. In Europe, the maximum value is 2,0%.
  15. Valery Neonov
    +2
    18 December 2013 08: 28
    The average pensions of citizens of the Russian Federation in kind increased by 5 times.- if you take into account the figures indicated in the article (housing and communal services and prices for products from the "set"), then this is possible and so; but nothing to do with reality hi
    1. 0
      18 December 2013 09: 51
      Well, then scan your receipts and lay out, or else just words.
    2. 0
      18 December 2013 12: 56
      Quote: Valery Neonov
      if we take into account the figures indicated in the article (housing and communal services and prices for products from the "set"), then this is possible and so; but with reality nothing to do


      Give me an example of the thing that could not be bought for the specified amount?

      Kg of beef? Or kg of potatoes? Honestly, half of what I laid out can be bought cheaper by 20-30%, if desired. Instead of a supermarket, go to the market by season, or even drive to the village.
  16. 0
    18 December 2013 08: 45
    Quote: a52333
    The author did a titanic work on the selection of statistical data. I liked the article. Thank.


    Join.
  17. 0
    18 December 2013 08: 49
    Prices depend solely on the paying capacity of citizens. The more income, the higher the prices. Prices rise as long as the population is able to pay. Rising prices, when no one can buy anything, will lead to the ruin of the "promoter".

    As long as the results of labor of citizens, depending on the place of work, in Moscow or Uryupinsk, in America or Africa, while the results of labor are not endowed with a measure, for the same work - the same pay, regardless of the place of work, so it will be - arbitrariness of prices will coexist and salaries.

    The lack of measures on labor and the results of labor allows them to keep the people in a bestial state - in slavery, in slavery in self-service.
  18. +2
    18 December 2013 08: 52
    "All is well, lovely marquise ...!"
    A man is far from life. Draws graphs.
    1. rereture
      +1
      18 December 2013 09: 09
      A person does not say that everything is fine, just shows that not everything is so bad.
    2. +1
      18 December 2013 10: 35
      Quote: There was a mammoth
      A man is far from life. Draws graphs.

      Do you know other comparison methods? Suggest - discuss.
      1. +3
        18 December 2013 18: 53
        Quote: Boris55
        Do you know other comparison methods?

        "Shadow on the fence". wink
        According to the author’s schedules, my wife began to live five times better. Thanks to the author, I enlightened. And given the previous article, I thought about moving to Rublevka.
        1. +3
          18 December 2013 19: 29
          so the fact is that we are trying in different ways, starting from charts and ending with numbers and percentages, to try to prove that we all live well. I propose to take the pension amount, say 2003 and buy gasoline for this amount. and now we take the current amount pension and buy gasoline too, only at current prices. and compare the difference. in 2003, the best gasoline cost 12,5 rubles. 2013th gasoline costs 30 rubles. belay
          the average pension in Russia in 2003 was 1627 rubles. 2013th, the average pension is 10 rubles. And now we are calculating. In 065, 2003 liters could be bought for the average pension. 130-m 2013 liters.

          P. S. Sum of pensions are indicated by average data. It is clear that not everyone receives such a pension. That's where it all starts. Everyone considers average values. This is beneficial. To some))

          If my neighbor ate one whole chicken, but I fell asleep hungry, then on average my neighbor and I ate half a chicken. laughing
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. +1
            18 December 2013 19: 50
            Quote: lonely
            so the fact is that we are in different ways, starting from charts and ending with numbers and percentages trying to prove that, we all live well

            In the late 70s, I received only 240 rubles wink ... Imagine how much I have become "better" to live. And pensioners then a maximum of 132 rubles. received. Even if the current average pension is divided by 132 ... Mind-blowing times will turn out !!! This is the time to compare with, otherwise it’s 1999. Finely. I think the author will take into account the flaw wink
            1. 0
              19 December 2013 01: 58
              Mammoth
              Probably earned or received. This is more than one and a half average salary in the country at that time.
              1. +1
                19 December 2013 08: 37
                Quote: corn
                Mammoth
                Probably earned or received. This is more than one and a half average salary in the country at that time.

                At that time I was already working on 6th grade. You are right, then there was a ceiling of 220 rubles. And few earned more. Only the military received more.
          3. +1
            19 December 2013 01: 49
            Lonely.
            When you take a hundred neighbors, it doesn’t work out that fifty of them ate chicken and fifty nothing (because in a couple of weeks these fifty will take away 50 chickens from others).
            You understand this very well, but trying to use the method of demagogy - bringing to absurdity.
            I can’t understand: on purpose or out of thought. If it weren’t for your virtual rank, I wouldn’t comment on your statements.
            1. +1
              19 December 2013 19: 19
              To be honest, I didn’t understand your comment. We are trying to prove to everyone that we are not living very badly (this applies to the entire USSR) and refer to average indicators. What do I care about average indicators, if the deputy is supposed to receive $ 6000 per month, and an ordinary person is only 300 dollars. when calculating the average salary, they add and minus all this, multiply and divide. And it turns out that the average salary is the N-th amount. But in reality more than half of the population has been dreaming of such salaries for more than 20 years sleep. Now I hope you understand what my comment hi

              PS About the fact that 50 neighbors will take away chickens from the other 50. Do not even hope. People have long turned into obedient tools. As long as they are not robbed, they still bend.
              1. 0
                21 December 2013 19: 31
                Lonely!
                Sorry, just now I saw your comment.
                Compared with all of the former USSR, we, in Russia, live better than the rest.
                I don’t know another way to compare the standard of living, you know, tell me.
                Human nature (my opinion) can be described by the expression - "In the wrong hands ... always thicker"
                As a rule, we compare ourselves with those who live, in our opinion, better. From this, our subjective opinions appear, and changing your opinion is very difficult. And the process of forming an opinion is quite inert.
                You've probably heard of the three stages of the new
                “This cannot be”, “there is something in this” and “who does not know this?”
                Try to look at some things from this position.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  19. +1
    18 December 2013 08: 57
    Why compare with 99 year (complete collapse, and the impoverishment of the people after default)? Compare with the pensions of the years so 85-90.
    1. 0
      18 December 2013 10: 01
      Quote: pv1005
      Why compare with 99 year? Compare with the pensions of the years so 85-90

      Do you propose comparing the period of developed socialism with the period of a reviving Russia after a global catastrophe? Do you think it will be honest?
      1. -2
        18 December 2013 12: 58
        Quote: pv1005
        Why compare with 99 year (complete collapse, and the impoverishment of the people after default)? Compare with the pensions of the years so 85-90.


        It would be more logical then to compare the 1917-1941 period and the 1999-2012 period with each other, IMHO a more adequate comparison.
    2. -2
      18 December 2013 12: 36
      Or maybe even 25-30 comparable ?! The times of socialism are also important.
  20. +6
    18 December 2013 09: 06
    from the Don.
    Again, a song from the same opera! Hedgehog understands that incomes and pensions have grown since the 90s. But I can’t put these average statistics in my pocket! I already wrote that my friends and I have a pension from 7000 thousand to 9000 thousand. I am disabled 2 gr. This month I paid about 4000 thousand for a communal apartment, about 2000 thousand for drugs. The rest is 1000 thousand rubles. What basket should I go to the store with or with a bag? My friend worked for 40 years on a tractor. The pension is 9000 thousand rubles. I go to the store in: Gazelle: go ?
    1. -6
      18 December 2013 12: 39
      Once again, show a receipt for rent and a certificate from a pensioner. So far you are only writing a gag.
    2. 0
      18 December 2013 13: 05
      Quote: borisjdin1957
      Again the song from the same opera! Hedgehog understands that incomes and pensions have grown since the 90 years. But I won’t put these average statistics in my pocket!


      You are right, you can’t put a schedule in your pocket, and an indexed pension outstripping inflation YES.


      Quote: borisjdin1957
      I already wrote, I and my friends have a pension from 7000tyr to 9000tyr. I am disabled 2 gr.


      My acquaintances and personally grandmothers begin their pensions from 11500, a disabled person of the 3 vision group, a former teacher. But it's all called "pointless demagoguery". Since the fact that if the social circle in which you are in retirement is below the average, this does not cancel other pensioners who are robbed from time to time or they give some fortune teller according to 150 - 300 thousand savings.

      Quote: borisjdin1957
      This month I paid about 4000tyr for a communal apartment, about 2000tyr for drugs. The rest is 1000tyr.

      You are not required to pay so much, a maximum of 22% of the total family income. Or HOA is fooling you, or you are fooling me.

      Most likely you do not live alone, but with your spouse, and more people are registered in your house and you do not know the laws of the country in which you live.

      Quote: borisjdin1957
      Familiar 40 years worked on a tractor. Pension-9000tyr

      If a tactorist is paid 9000 rubles, then what about engineers and highly skilled workers?
      1. +2
        18 December 2013 17: 09
        from the Don.
        I’m not accustomed to lying from childhood. Yes, my wife works and gets within 12tyr. My son is also registered. I pay all the counters. Gas-4,9 per cube, light-2,7 per kW. Telephone with Internet-750 rubles. If neither where not to call, only locally. Yes, it’s easier in the summer. And we have one law: you don’t pay, we cut it off!
        1. Yarosvet
          +3
          18 December 2013 17: 21
          Quote: borisjdin1957
          Yes, it’s easier in summer
  21. pahom54
    +4
    18 December 2013 09: 18
    For myself, I personally came up with such a scale of income and expenses for a long time: as much as I could before - in the 60-70-80-90s I could buy BREAD and VODKA (I’m not an alcoholic, but to what - Now you will understand).
    Depending on the age of the members of the forum, each count, and now you get only one result: BREAD can be bought less, and VODKA - more! What is this talking about? Yes, nothing good ...
    1. Yarosvet
      +2
      18 December 2013 14: 16
      Quote: pahom54
      For myself, I personally came up with such a scale of income and expenses for a long time: as much as I could before - in the 60-70-80-90s to buy BREAD and VODKA on average pension (or salary)

      In terms of purchasing power, the Soviet 70 rubles of the minimum wage in the mid-80s are approximately equal to the current 20-25 thousand.
  22. The comment was deleted.
  23. +6
    18 December 2013 10: 00
    Dear Author of Sledgehammer102.


    I appreciate your desire for objectivity and reliability in the presentation of the topic under study, but this topic will never be grateful because:
    • Everything good happens gradually, as if by itself and, it seems, it should be so, only troubles (crisis, winter, etc.) fall at once and a lot - this is a feature of human perception.
    • Considering the sphere of consumption is a thankless thing, because consumption is a purely subjective and multifactorial category.
    • Numerical indicators of consumption are not correct to consider in isolation from real production. In this context, the claims of the population are quite justified. Actually, production is in a state of stagnation, and the outflow of capital ... One way or another, but people compare these things. And they don't get a response. The question of changing the structure of GDP in the direction of services (not to the population) is not even raised here.

    All in all, your work has convinced me that Russia is a fabulously rich country, which can afford to "feed" half the world and somehow support social programs. Any of your arguments will be broken on the stratification in society, which is not justified either by merit, or by contribution to development, or by mind or work. Moreover, your articles only emphasize the inconsistency of the existing situation with the sense of social justice, which is still present in the Russian people. It’s even scary to think about how pensioners would live if ... In the comments, this is what we are talking about.
    Best regards hi .
    1. 0
      18 December 2013 10: 54
      Quote: GrBear
      In general, your work has convinced me that Russia is a fabulously rich country that can afford to "feed" half the world and somehow support social programs.
      That's for sure! Another indisputable thesis - "You need to drink less" ... laughing Everything else is still quite ambiguous - what to compare with. But the main problem, I think, with a certain increase in "welfare" in general, its extremely uneven distribution "in particular" ... I join. hi
    2. -1
      18 December 2013 13: 14
      Quote: GrBear
      To consider the sphere of consumption is an ungrateful thing, because consumption is a purely subjective and multifactorial category.


      Much more multifactorial, oh yes, they suggested that I include panties and soap in the sample.

      Quote: GrBear
      Numerical indicators of consumption are not correctly considered in isolation from real production.


      Consumption and production have nothing to do with it at all, it was clearly said, "We do not cook soup." Brost, one natural unit was created, which includes such parameters as "Nutrition" and "Housing and Communal Services".

      Quote: GrBear
      Production itself is in a state of stagnation, and capital outflows

      In my profile, you can read about stagnation in Agriculture, which for some reason brought many indicators to the level of the Soviet era, some indicators generally went around it many times, some returned to the level of the beginning of 90x, when there was still a long way off.

      In Ukraine today there has been an inflow of capital, is that good?

      Quote: GrBear
      In general, your work has convinced me that Russia is a fabulously rich country that can afford to "feed" half the world and somehow support social programs.

      I didn’t write anything like that, you confuse your thoughts with theses.

      Quote: GrBear
      Any of your arguments will be divided into stratification in society, which is not justified either by merit, or contribution to development, or by mind or work. Moreover, your articles only emphasize the inconsistency of the existing situation with the sense of social justice that is still present in Russian people.


      I AGREE! + 1. But life, by definition, is unfair, and from birth, someone is born in the family of alcoholics or in Angola, and someone in the family of David Beckham, although in principle they should be completely equal in all respects.
  24. +2
    18 December 2013 10: 48
    If everything is fine with us. What am I then EVERY day I see minma 10-15 old women selling their modest swag / green or just standing all day in the cold.
    Well, housing and communal services 46 m costs 7 rubles per month + phone.
    1. 0
      18 December 2013 12: 41
      Can I have a scanned receipt ?! How many souls and in which region ?!
    2. -4
      18 December 2013 13: 18
      Quote: iwind
      If everything is fine with us. What am I then EVERY day I see minma 10-15 old women selling their modest swag / green or just standing all day in the cold.


      what does "hobby" have to do with pensions? Now, if every day you would see 10-15 pensioners in the trash, this is an indicator, and you saw them, some 14-15 years ago.
      By the way, on the delivery of bottles or cans you can earn more than a bunch of dill.

      Quote: iwind
      Well, housing and communal services 46 m costs 7 rubles per month + phone.

      A phone costs 100 rubles a month with the Internet.
      At the utilities you pay no more than 22% of income, if a pensioner is even less.
      1. +3
        18 December 2013 13: 42
        Quote: sledgehammer102
        what does "hobby" have to do with pensions? Now, if every day you would see 10-15 pensioners in the trash, this is an indicator, and you saw them, some 14-15 years ago.
        By the way, on the delivery of bottles or cans you can earn more than a bunch of dill.

        No cometaries. Hobie ... I just have no words.
        When in an hour I will again see grandmother sitting on the newspaper in the passage. I will have to say no need to be engaged in "hobi", go home. I confused nothing?

        Quote: sledgehammer102
        A phone costs 100 rubles a month with the Internet.
        At the utilities you pay no more than 22% of income, if a pensioner is even less.

        Yes, my mom is registered here (By the way, a pensioner), I personally absolutely Don't bother paying her quart. fee (and my share is there).
        the phone costs 300-400 rubles.
        1. -4
          18 December 2013 13: 46
          Quote: iwind
          phone costs 300-400 rub


          The Beeline and Megafon tariffs allow you to dissuade several hundred minutes and download about 1 gig for an amount in the region of 100 rubles, you can say more, you will pay 200 rubles a month.


          Quote: iwind
          Yes, my mother is registered here (By the way, a pensioner), I personally do not bother to pay her quart. fee (and my share is there).

          What can I say, nothing to write half truth.
          1. +5
            18 December 2013 13: 57
            Quote: sledgehammer102

            The Beeline and Megafon tariffs allow you to dissuade several hundred minutes and download about 1 gig for an amount in the region of 100 rubles, you can say more, you will pay 200 rubles a month.

            http://mgts.ru/home/phone/offer/tariff
            Where is 100 rubles with the Internet?
            Quote: sledgehammer102
            What can I say, there is nothing to write half the truth.

            I wrote how much I pay for utilities. Where is the half truth?
            Although after your words about grandmothers, the desire to discuss with you absolutely disappeared ... just horror.
            We assume that he lied, and the life of pensioners is wonderful amazing.
  25. +4
    18 December 2013 12: 26
    In fact, it is worth thinking about something else. Yes, people's real incomes have grown (although in the last two years there has been a stagnation in income growth and an increase in "compulsory expenses" - that is, there are crisis phenomena. But it is worth remembering this, unlike the USSR, we are now put in very tough conditions of "physical survival "- as soon as you become seriously ill and become incapacitated your balance of" income-expenses "is destroyed instantly and irreversibly. Sick you are not interesting to the employer - and even if you are not fired having found a formal reason, your income will be sharply reduced because" sick leave payments "are much less s / n. The cost of drugs reaches prohibitive values ​​- and you can count on "preferential" only if you are recognized as a "chronicler" - and before that you will buy with your own - up to dressings. The real cost of "conditionally free insurance medicine" is also known to everyone ...

    It is precisely this - the absence of "guarantees of survival" for a huge layer of people living "from paycheck to paycheck" that causes irritation and the main problems. Unfortunately, in the existing "liberal market" paradigm, aggravated by our general "lack of jurisdiction of the authorities", the solution to this problem does not exist in principle. "Back tu yu YSSR" is also unlikely. So it turns out that all this will end in the next 17th year ...

    "On a military road, in the end, the repeated year will
    and, with the people, they will become gray hair on the culprit of our tribulations!
    Near the Volga reach rusted the wheels in the weeds braided by wattle fence.
    We will drive old cars in the front of the fighters, we will mold the solarium in gas tanks.

    Rumble our tanks for commercial banks and stocks to warm raw,
    where, in theory, the Jewish villains are sitting: Killer, Dealer and local Reuben.
    Crawl through arable land cannon towers to the capital in a blind fog.
    We will work, we will bother, we will burn with the overhead hammer and we will use the collective farm serp! "(C)
    1. -3
      18 December 2013 13: 23
      Quote: Taoist
      Yes, people's real incomes have grown (although in the last two years there has been a stagnation in income growth and an increase in "compulsory expenses" - that is, crisis phenomena are evident.


      From here to the end of your message, I would like to hear a substantive conversation. What? How many? Where?
      Let me remind you that a substantive conversation is not a reference to personal experience, etc. Since the specific mine and my family completely refutes what you have stated.

      Quote: Taoist
      "Back tu yu YSSR" is also unlikely. So it turns out that all this will end in the next 17th year ...


      Alexey Navalny and Co., including the entire edition of Echo of Moscow, applauds you standing !!!!! good
      1. +2
        18 December 2013 15: 28
        Well, first of all, I don’t understand what does “cheeky” have with “yehu” ... If you think that I am delighted with the prospect of another “senseless and merciless” you are mistaken.
        Secondly, we can give figures and arguments that de facto will not determine anything until "hoarse before a fight". Because we are talking about a non-"monetized" substance - an attitude towards a person as a function.
  26. makarov
    +4
    18 December 2013 13: 55
    SW komenty !! Do not argue, THE AUTHOR SAID that YOU are pensioners, ALL WITHOUT AN EXCLUSION YOU ARE LIVING WONDERFUL, and only because of your stupidity you can’t appreciate it, and give due tribute to the STATE CARE about YOU !!!!
    1. +1
      18 December 2013 14: 19
      Quote: makarov
      BECAUSE THE AUTHOR SAID that YOU are pensioners, EVERYTHING WITHOUT EXCLUSION IS LIVING WELL, and only because of your stupidity you can’t appreciate it,

      I read the article and the comments to it and I can not get rid of the feeling that the author has matured, wiser and received a good education ... a gopnik, a puny from the sixties and seventies. So it reads in his requirements for commentators of numbers, analysis and verified data, the old and unkind boyish-contemptuous, pronounced exclusively after spitting through teeth and twisting his mouth; "And you, damn it, prove it!"
      1. VAF
        VAF
        +5
        18 December 2013 15: 48
        Quote: Normal
        I read the article and the comments on it, and I can’t get rid of the feeling that the author has grown up, wiser and got a good education ... gopnik, punks from the sixties and seventies.


        Dear, you are wrong here, +! drinks
        Firstly, this is not the author, but a group of comrades watered technologists, PR managers and image makers who "work out their bread" for a completely non-"retirement" salary for the glory of the Great and Almighty Ruler ... just they did not calculate that here, on the site, there are a lot of people of "mature age" who "experienced" all the delights of these Taxis, Perestroika and Tandem Boards on their backs.
        Well, it didn't work for them to "do" .. "How to live well in Russia" .... all the same, they will never "reach" the classics (well, how could it be otherwise, after all, the reforms of everything and everything + EG, very .. "expensive stand " wassat ).

        So we use it as before - "Who lives well in Russia" !!! soldier
        1. 0
          18 December 2013 20: 28
          How trite you think. If someone does not agree with you, then putinoid, urapatriot or proedros.
          If a person begins to explain reasonably with numbers, you declare "profonation! We know we have lived!"
          On the Maidan, raguli also consider themselves the most intelligent and the most true-thinking, only they have no solid arguments, all words and emotions.
  27. kaktus
    +6
    18 December 2013 17: 54
    Pension 11000, sq. Payment for Khrushchev-2300. Besides eating - ..t, even a pensioner needs winter clothes and shoes and at least analgin-nitroglycerin-phenolphthalein. Than argue with the author, I’ll go and testify to my Musya.
    "Be healthy, live richly,
    as your salary allows you
    and if the salary doesn’t allow,
    well, do not live, no one is in bondage! "

    All similar articles are bold minus IMHO
  28. +2
    18 December 2013 18: 23
    Quote: sledgehammer102
    Quote: AK-47
    And immediately comes to mind the famous phrase:


    Well, in fact, everything is clear with propaganda, only to the article what will be the subject of comments? She's lying?
    the article is bad in that it is poorly perceived, heaped up a bunch of numbers and graphs, some quotes were pulled ... people need a correct and simple presentation in comparison. Where are the inflation statistics? She eats all your laudatory remarks at a time.
  29. Yarosvet
    0
    18 December 2013 20: 37
    --------------------------------------------
    1. +1
      19 December 2013 10: 35
      It is time to introduce into the Criminal Code Article 58, as under Father Stalin, "the enemy of the people." and all this .... there.
  30. 0
    19 December 2013 10: 33
    But the bottle of vodka had to be taken into account. Indeed, in the folk wisdom to which there is a link - "you need to drink less", it is clearly said "you need to drink ....".

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned)

“Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"