Late Soviet “Poverty and Failure”, or How We Believed in the Objectivity of Words on Food Deficit

Recently, it has become popular to compare the standard of living, filling shelves with various goods, the quality of these products, labor productivity, industrial production rates and the level of purchasing (or, as is often said, consumer) ability of an average citizen of modern Russia and a citizen of the Soviet Union. As a starting point for comparison, the reporting data of the Council of Ministers of the USSR and the data of the current Cabinet (or information from so-called independent audit agencies) are usually used.

On the basis of such a comparison, some people conclude that “life has become better, life has become more fun,” others argue that the situation has become much worse than it was in the USSR, and others are inclined to say that it’s incorrect to compare, in principle. Each on this account has a series of his own arguments, and the arguments of some often do not impress others, and vice versa.

To compare statistically, really, is not easy. It is not easy, at least for the reason that a priori it is necessary to trust the data provided by the Soviet authorities and the authorities (or “independent” appraisers) of the present. And this idea, for obvious reasons, to put it mildly, does not always correlate with objective reality, and it often looks like the “average temperature in the hospital.” However, there are numbers, and therefore (even if one assumes that they have been imprisoned then, they are still coaxing), then, in principle, one can come to a certain objectivity of comparison.

For a start, it is worth presenting information that relates to the level of the so-called purchasing power of the average Soviet citizen and citizen of modern Russia. Comparison in this case can be carried out on food products (cars, apartments or household appliances as purchased goods, for obvious reasons, it is senseless to use as an object of comparison). Immediately, it is necessary to emphasize that the comparison can be carried out more or less, as it is now commonly said, taking into account the USSR figures of the late eighties - the beginning of 90's (more or less open information) and the indicators of modern Russia.

So, how many could afford one or another product to acquire a Soviet citizen (of course, the average) sample 1989-1990. and the average modern citizen. In order to form a situation that is suitable for statistical analysis, it is necessary to make a start not from the abundance or absence of goods on the shelves of shops and on the market stalls (more about this later), but solely on the level of income and prices for certain types of goods. Prices and average per capita income of the 1990 sample of the year are presented on the basis of the reporting materials of the USSR Council of Ministers and separately by the USSR State Committee on Statistics (data for November 1990), as well as on the basis of the FBK analytical center. Current data on food prices and incomes of the population are presented by Rosstat.

The average monthly salary in the USSR in 1990, according to the USSR State Committee for Statistics, was 303 rubles. The average monthly salary in Russia in 2013 year, according to Rosstat, will be about 29 thousand rubles. Based on these salary parameters and average price levels in the country, it turns out that a Soviet citizen in 1990 could buy (for each type of product as a whole) his wages, for example, 757 kg of potatoes, 130 kg of beef, about 1010 l of milk, 337 kg of sugar, 178 liters of sunflower oil, 606 kg of flour or 17 liters of vodka. Again, he could have done it purely mathematically (the coupon distribution and other “charms” of this particular Soviet period are not taken into account). The average modern Russian can afford the average wage (if we talk about the same products) 117 kg of beef, 790 l of milk, 951 kg of flour, 86 l of vodka, 374 l of sunflower oil, 717 kg of sugar or 1397 kg of potatoes.

If we are guided by these data, it turns out that a modern Russian can buy 10% less beef at his average monthly salary, 21% less milk, but for all the other products mentioned, the modern Russian citizen is already inferior to the Soviet citizen 1990. Particularly impressive is the increase in the availability of vodka - it is more than fivefold (and this is only at prices and wages, not to mention such a concept as the late Soviet deficit)! The possibility of buying flour has increased compared to the late Soviet period by 57%, potatoes - by 84%, vegetable oil and sugar - more than doubled.

Now it’s about the late Soviet deficit. Having survived this deficiency, each on his own, forgive, the skin, having stood in lines with the coupons squeezed in a fist for sugar or chicken eggs, today we hear: they say, they are to blame themselves ... But adherents of this argument often rely on information allegedly about a huge decrease in labor productivity at the end of 80-x - the beginning of 90-x in the USSR, for crop failures, “arrears” and the complete failure of the planned economy. They say they didn’t sow anything in the fields and didn’t clean it, they didn’t work properly, but you think about the possibility of a sufficient amount of goods in Soviet stores ...

Many fellow citizens really believe such an argument and are inclined to believe that in the last few years of its existence, the Soviet Union did not produce anything, but only expected the arrival of its own end. In fact, talking about the fact that the empty shelves of 1990-1991’s Soviet stores are the result of total Soviet parasitism and sloppiness is nothing more than a “black myth”. The share of capital investments in agriculture in 1990 was 17,1% (today is about 16%), while the efficiency of Soviet agriculture in modern Russia is still significantly lagging (a gap of about 20% is an average) from Soviet efficiency even in the late period. In the 2012-2013 years, the production level of the livestock production complex is no more than 70% of the 1990 production level of the year, and crop production - 88%. The fish catch in 1990 amounted to 8 mln. Tons, in 2012 - 4,1 mln. Tons (here, however, it is necessary to take into account the decrease in the number of ports used in the Baltic, Caspian, Black Sea). However, at the beginning of 90's, the shelves of Soviet stores were empty, but the shelves of modern outlets literally bursting with various kinds of products. Its quality is a separate issue, but now it’s not about that.

So what's the matter, where did the products go from the Soviet fields, from the collective farms, for whom the processing industry worked? Where have food disappeared at all, and where did the deficit come from, if the level of food production in the USSR in 1990 was in many ways even higher than today?

All these questions find the answer, if we turn to the following fact: as soon as the statesmen decided to switch to complete liberalization of the economy with an unrestrained price increase, the store shelves began to fill up again with goods. And in a number of cases it happened that even “last night” the shelves of the city shop were empty, and “this morning” they had vegetables and meat, and a sufficient amount of bakery products, canned goods, and much more, but already completely different prices. Is it too fast, considering all the talk about the fact that the country allegedly did not produce anything anymore ...

These dramatic changes caught millions of citizens, realizing that the deficit was clearly artificial. That is, the goods were actually produced in the former (or close to the same) volumes, but they were not sent to the store shelves, but to warehouses, which is called “until better times.” Obviously, such perturbations without the knowledge of the higher authorities of the state could not take place, no matter how strong or weak these authorities were. That is, there was a place to be, shall we say, a tacit consent to planting the idea of ​​insolvency and deficiency. In many ways, it resembles the famous “bread riots” of 1917 of the year ... It seems that the deficit of the beginning of 90's, like the shortage of essential goods of 1917, are segments of one whole - that contributes to the artificial formation of public opinion about the state's insolvency. Were the authors of this strategy inside the state, or outside it - already separate story... Some (ideologues or simple performers) were later even awarded ...

Comments

[builder]

Food stamps and a business card of a resident of Leningrad are stored at home. The daughter considers them with bewilderment.
Cool Gorbachev and the company mocked the people with ... ka.

[builder]

Blockade grocery cards and Gorbachev coupons are things of the same order. Only some were tried in Nuremberg, while others are still hanging orders.

[Rink]

.... Moreover, in a number of cases it happened that even “last night” the shelves of the city store were empty, and “this morning” vegetables and meat appeared on them, as well as a sufficient number of bakery products, and canned goods, and much more , but at completely different prices. Is it too fast ...

The reverse processes (disappearance of goods) in the same way occurred in an organized and instantaneous manner. For example, in the summer of 1990, for two days, a smoky disappeared throughout a mighty country. Just these days I was riding the Kharkov-Novosibirsk fast train, and I watched in a hurry this process along the entire rather big route. Moreover on any all the same it was possible to buy a cigarette station: from gypsies! the truth is five times more expensive than the store price ...

Trade doesn't work like that.
Warehouses in different cities must be emptied at different speeds, depending on stocks. Some of them immediately before the crisis should come the last wagons with products, and for some stocks will already be at a minimum.

And while there were no reports of stopping tobacco factories, they continued to work normally.

Someone with tremendous power gave orders throughout the country, and the Soviet trading network instantly complied. Who and why did this? This is still a mystery to me.

[Andriuha077]

What secrets can there be ?! !! In the video, one of the performers confesses

Where are they now, shot, in prison, or continue to hold important posts?

Around the same period, enemies eliminated
Anti-Theft Department socialist of property (OBKHSS) - the department for combating the theft of socialist property in organizations and institutions of state trade, consumer, industrial and individual cooperation, procurement agencies and savings banks, as well as in the fight against speculation.


Video: Chubais told the truth about privatization
youtube.com/watch?v=Odk0GgLKPcY
And this emu echoes: "someone had to do it" - about the destruction of my country
youtube.com/watch?v=YJXjZCcrceU

[gsg955]

Before the overthrow of Khrushchov in 1963. store shelves were also empty, but as Brezhnev reigned, everything appeared immediately.
There is a conspiracy.

[My address]

In my city, shelves were filled around the 65 year. Around then, the village relatives sighed from the cessation of stupidity, from the prohibitions to work on their farmstead, from a bunch of people checking the work of a dwarf collective farm. Under Khrushchev, the giant collective farm was torn into several. Well, straight liberal shit-democrats did!

[sledgehammer102]

Quote: gsg955

Before the overthrow of Khrushchov in 1963. store shelves were also empty, but as Brezhnev reigned, everything appeared immediately.
There is a conspiracy.

Doesn't this remind you of the current situation? The only difference is that then there was really nothing on the shelves, but now they just say about it, that there is NOTHING DOMESTIC in the stores?

Or the same stories about food security, "WE WILL NOT FEED OURSELVES", although we have serious problems only with beef and milk, their import exceeds the established indicators of the doctrine of Food Security of the Russian Federation.

These two pictures serve as a striking example of this imputation.

[zvereok]

I still do not understand, the author was comparing the Russian Federation with the USSR or the RSFSR? And so, yes, a lot of food "raw materials of low" degree of processing go abroad. It is much more profitable to sell it for dollars than for the ever-devaluating ruble. A business is not bad if it is large and has connections in the government, and with connections - soft loans from the state. Probably because the servants of the people rushed into agriculture 8-10 years ago - oil / gas was divided for a long time, and then there is a new wave, but the kids are growing up, all the kids seem to lack seats on the boards of banks and state companies.

[Vadim2013]

In 1977-1978 I went to Konakovsky power tool factory for work. At the request of the factory workers with whom he had production affairs, he brought them meat, butter, sausage from Moscow.

[Sour]

All right, you say, dear compatriot.
I hate those who are lying. Thanks for the truth about those times.
Even in the best of Soviet, in Brezhnev’s times, in the Russian outback there was simply nothing to buy, even in co-trade or in the market. They went to Moscow for food. There was such a joke:
French President Brezhnev: "How do you supply such a huge country?"
Brezhnev to the President of France: "Yes, we only supply Moscow and Leningrad, and then they deliver themselves."
th youngsters who have heard enough of their mother's and grandmother's ramblings about the soviet "paradise" know nothing of this. And their mothers-grandmothers are again Muscovites and Leningrad.
Now we can buy everything in Moscow in Nizhny Novgorod. Unless, of course, you sit idle and earn.
And at that time, apart from canned fish, "soup sets", vinegar and "sandwich" butter (this oil is a rare trash, young people do not know about it) there was nothing.
So they would go to hell, little gaggles, youngsters whose parents even have no idea how Russia lived then.

[11111mail.ru]

Quote: Sour

teenage throats, whose parents even have no idea how Russia lived then.

There was such a case, returned in November 1985 from a business trip to Khabarovsk in Dalnerechensk, and in a store at the "Bolshoi Aerodrome", not far from the headquarters, I bought 2 kg. oil, in Dalnerechensk they gave 300 gr. per capita. So this is butter, which is 2 kilos on the occasion bought, which is 300 gr. one could eat freely on the free market, it was OIL, real CREAM, not a modern product, which is now identified with butter only by name.
We have a concept, "sour", how the trade workers lived and how ordinary hard workers lived. For some reason, homeless people were not observed in such numbers on the streets, and the number of prisoners in prisons, as it were, was "per capita". The student on the scholarship was not flamboyant, of course, but if you go a couple of times to a good detachment, then even a suit (produced by the NDP 120 rubles) and a coat with an astrakhan collar for 180 rubles. I bought myself after 3 courses (1978). In the spring of 1980 in April for a week with his wife in St. Petersburg hit the road. They played a wedding on their own money. Student proverbs helped out: You can't forbid to work hard and live beautifully! Do you want to live, know how to spin! There was health, optimism and confidence in YOUR country.

[Aleks75070]

People, how I want confidence in the future! When still young and want to live!

[cdrt]

Quote: 11111mail.ru

Quote: Sour

teenage throats, whose parents even have no idea how Russia lived then.

There was such a case, returned in November 1985 from a business trip to Khabarovsk in Dalnerechensk, and in a store at the "Bolshoi Aerodrome", not far from the headquarters, I bought 2 kg. oil, in Dalnerechensk they gave 300 gr. per capita. So this is butter, which is 2 kilos on the occasion bought, which is 300 gr. one could eat freely on the free market, it was OIL, real CREAM, not a modern product, which is now identified with butter only by name.
We have a concept, "sour", how the trade workers lived and how ordinary hard workers lived. For some reason, homeless people were not observed in such numbers on the streets, and the number of prisoners in prisons, as it were, was "per capita". The student on the scholarship was not flamboyant, of course, but if you go a couple of times to a good detachment, then even a suit (produced by the NDP 120 rubles) and a coat with an astrakhan collar for 180 rubles. I bought myself after 3 courses (1978). In the spring of 1980 in April for a week with his wife in St. Petersburg hit the road. They played a wedding on their own money. Student proverbs helped out: You can't forbid to work hard and live beautifully! Do you want to live, know how to spin! There was health, optimism and confidence in YOUR country.

We got these nonsense about "... that was butter ...", and now
1. Most like a moaning handicraftman without a motor of 12 chairs
2. It is clear that they were younger then, it was better, but the current oil does not get worse from this
3. Butter with buttermilk 72% fat was created in the USSR, I remember even someone gave a prize for this to some of the academics
4. Go to a normal store (I can tell you the names in Moscow, St. Petersburg, Kazan, Naberezhnye Chelny) and buy Vologda oil (GOST, 82,5% fat) and you will be happy. By the way, I remember in the days of the USSR the Vologda Year since 1980 in Moscow they were given either in orders (I suppose they forgot the word “inventors of Paradise USSR”) once a year, or in special distributors (for party bonuses), or in Birch for checks (exchanged for currency )
5. I myself lived in the USSR and I remember everything very, very good, both good and bad

[11111mail.ru]

Quote: cdrt

1. Most like a moaning handicraftman without a motor of 12 chairs

1. Are you trying to reproach me with Polesovshchina? In vain. In my comment, "moaning" was not present even in the form of a hint! Re-read it again if you find it and prove it - I will apologize for the "groaning". And since there were no "groans", you are a liar, and not just an arrogant liar, but an arrogant liar with aplomb and signs of DE JA VU. Be humble and everything will be fine with you.
Point 2 - are you probably referring to yourself?
Point 3 - you saw the good in the USSR, you said, mind you, not me.
Point 4 - the cities you indicated were well supplied under the communists.
On urgent service, they conducted an experiment with especially greedy and hungry people like you - they gave the rations of the entire department to the "starving" and forced them to eat, then we observed the result - unforgettable!
Point 5 - Read my comment, Moscow is not indicated there, only the Khabarovsk and Primorsky Territories. Ergo: geographically, these are former territories of the USSR.

[yehat]

Quote: cdrt

Quote: 11111mail.ru

Quote: Sour

teenage throats, whose parents even have no idea how Russia lived then.

There was such a case, returned in November 1985 from a business trip to Khabarovsk in Dalnerechensk, and in a store at the "Bolshoi Aerodrome", not far from the headquarters, I bought 2 kg. oil, in Dalnerechensk they gave 300 gr. per capita. So this is butter, which is 2 kilos on the occasion bought, which is 300 gr. one could eat freely on the free market, it was OIL, real CREAM, not a modern product, which is now identified with butter only by name.
We have a concept, "sour", how the trade workers lived and how ordinary hard workers lived. For some reason, homeless people were not observed in such numbers on the streets, and the number of prisoners in prisons, as it were, was "per capita". The student on the scholarship was not flamboyant, of course, but if you go a couple of times to a good detachment, then even a suit (produced by the NDP 120 rubles) and a coat with an astrakhan collar for 180 rubles. I bought myself after 3 courses (1978). In the spring of 1980 in April for a week with his wife in St. Petersburg hit the road. They played a wedding on their own money. Student proverbs helped out: You can't forbid to work hard and live beautifully! Do you want to live, know how to spin! There was health, optimism and confidence in YOUR country.

We got these nonsense about "... that was butter ...", and now
1. Most like a moaning handicraftman without a motor of 12 chairs
2. It is clear that they were younger then, it was better, but the current oil does not get worse from this
3. Butter with buttermilk 72% fat was created in the USSR, I remember even someone gave a prize for this to some of the academics
4. Go to a normal store (I can tell you the names in Moscow, St. Petersburg, Kazan, Naberezhnye Chelny) and buy Vologda oil (GOST, 82,5% fat) and you will be happy. By the way, I remember in the days of the USSR the Vologda Year since 1980 in Moscow they were given either in orders (I suppose they forgot the word “inventors of Paradise USSR”) once a year, or in special distributors (for party bonuses), or in Birch for checks (exchanged for currency )
5. I myself lived in the USSR and I remember everything very, very good, both good and bad

in the USSR, supplies often depended on deliveries; in ordinary stores, something was always missing, however, those who worked and worked for something usually had access to special supplies and largely compensated for the deficit. Although the system brought something from there, it still remained. But not that there was nothing to eat at all.

Nevertheless, I already forgot the real taste of bread, butter, sausage, and pastries. Now 70-80% of food is below the GOST of the USSR.
Not GROWTH of the Russian Federation, but GOST of the USSR!
Of course, in the USSR there were strange things with sausage or oil from oil,
but they could simply be ignored.
Perhaps it was difficult only with fruit.

[yehat]

Quote: cdrt

Quote: 11111mail.ru

Quote: Sour

teenage throats, whose parents even have no idea how Russia lived then.

There was such a case, returned in November 1985 from a business trip to Khabarovsk in Dalnerechensk, and in a store at the "Bolshoi Aerodrome", not far from the headquarters, I bought 2 kg. oil, in Dalnerechensk they gave 300 gr. per capita. So this is butter, which is 2 kilos on the occasion bought, which is 300 gr. one could eat freely on the free market, it was OIL, real CREAM, not a modern product, which is now identified with butter only by name.
We have a concept, "sour", how the trade workers lived and how ordinary hard workers lived. For some reason, homeless people were not observed in such numbers on the streets, and the number of prisoners in prisons, as it were, was "per capita". The student on the scholarship was not flamboyant, of course, but if you go a couple of times to a good detachment, then even a suit (produced by the NDP 120 rubles) and a coat with an astrakhan collar for 180 rubles. I bought myself after 3 courses (1978). In the spring of 1980 in April for a week with his wife in St. Petersburg hit the road. They played a wedding on their own money. Student proverbs helped out: You can't forbid to work hard and live beautifully! Do you want to live, know how to spin! There was health, optimism and confidence in YOUR country.

We got these nonsense about "... that was butter ...", and now
1. Most like a moaning handicraftman without a motor of 12 chairs
2. It is clear that they were younger then, it was better, but the current oil does not get worse from this
3. Butter with buttermilk 72% fat was created in the USSR, I remember even someone gave a prize for this to some of the academics
4. Go to a normal store (I can tell you the names in Moscow, St. Petersburg, Kazan, Naberezhnye Chelny) and buy Vologda oil (GOST, 82,5% fat) and you will be happy. By the way, I remember in the days of the USSR the Vologda Year since 1980 in Moscow they were given either in orders (I suppose they forgot the word “inventors of Paradise USSR”) once a year, or in special distributors (for party bonuses), or in Birch for checks (exchanged for currency )
5. I myself lived in the USSR and I remember everything very, very good, both good and bad

in the USSR, supplies often depended on deliveries; in ordinary stores, something was always missing, however, those who worked and worked for something usually had access to special supplies and largely compensated for the deficit. Although the system brought something from there, it still remained. But not that there was nothing to eat at all.

Nevertheless, I already forgot the real taste of bread, butter, sausage, and pastries. Now 70-80% of food is below the GOST of the USSR.
Not GROWTH of the Russian Federation, but GOST of the USSR!
Of course, in the USSR there were strange things with sausage or oil from oil,
but they could simply be ignored.
Perhaps it was difficult only with fruit.

[smart ass]

And now you can buy excellent oil, you just need to choose not a cheap Mr.

[smart ass]

I completely agree with Swami, he personally stood in line with Batya for gasoline ... The command and administrative economy is inefficient in itself, the end of the USSR could be delayed, but it was inevitable.

[paunch]

I agree, dear Sour. I'm from Dzerzhinsk. and I remember how under Brezhnev (!!!) when it seemed like "everything was" (hee-hee), my grandmother, mother and brother stood all day in the store for sausage, which (oh, miracle!) was "thrown away" without coupons. They gave me a gram in hand, so the whole family stood there. And personally, I do not understand the last paragraph of the article by the esteemed Mr. Volodin.

[Boris55]

What would the people themselves want change (perestroika), it must be prepared for this ...

[RussianRu]

Probably everyone remembers; "dry law", queues at the only store selling vodka (at least in our city). And since 1991 alcohol "ROYAL" and other imported alcohol have appeared in free trade. Was there a "dry law" at all?

[Boris55]

Quote: Russian

Probably everyone remembers; "no alcohol law" ...

The people, like a spring, were squeezed by "dry law", and then they were released - they filled up with cheap alcohol and until the people came to their senses - they divided everything quickly ... We were not taught that at school, since we were so simply bred ...

[Lapotnik]

That was taught, that. Labor, honesty, and more. The state acted as a buffer against Western "values" and led us like children by the hand. And the West at that time was gaining experience in "razvodilov" on its own citizens, and in the colonies. That is why it turned out - they taught us the right things, but they didn’t get "inoculated" from "Western values".

And then, for, as you say, "a simple divorce", it was necessary to destroy the greatest power, since only after the collapse at the top, the collapse went to all structures. Most of the people were left with the necessary values, but they did not find their bearings in the situation, and aggressive criminality and other rubbish senses weakness and quickly hits the weakest points.

[Boris55]

Quote: Lapotnik

... led us like children by the hand ... did not orient in the situation ...

It’s profitable for the authorities to hold us for naive children and lead us by the hand where they need to be.
Until we master the entirety of the management information, we will remain children of needy guide dogs.

[Yarosvet]

Quote: Boris55

That’s not what we were taught at school, since they just divorced us ...
Until we master the entirety of management information, we will remain children of guide-needing people.

Quote: Lapotnik

The state acted as a buffer against Western "values"; it led us like children by the hand

From the series "we warned you" ...

[Boris55]

Quote: Yarosvet

From the series "we warned you" ...

I’m wondering, today, apart from BER, is anyone promoting the principles of management (DOTU - a sufficient general theory of management) to the people or something like that?

[Yarosvet]

Quote: Boris55

I’m wondering, today, except for BER, someone is promoting the principles of management

These comrades do not promote management principles, but apply .
You don’t seem to understand in any way that each person uses the full set of any principles and political manipulations with one or another success (depending on the characteristics of thinking and the nervous system) on a daily and completely natural basis - the only question is access to adequate information (Ulyanov said number about it)
But all kinds of kobes do what those in power have always done - they try to convince everyone that in order to manage something it is necessary either to be born super gifted, or to learn tons of some kind of schemes, moreover, never verified by anyone.

[Boris55]

Quote: Yarosvet

But all kinds of kobes do what those in power have always done - they try to convince everyone that in order to manage something it is necessary either to be born super gifted, or to learn tons of some kind of schemes, moreover, never verified by anyone.

You didn’t see the video ... By the way, the video says that if you impose the wrong culture on society, then it will die within three generations. Don't you think that today's Europe is a good example of this?

In the bunker of all 209 pages, I think I can read it for everyone. And if there is no desire for us to be driven again as in the 90's, then at least learn the basics of control, starting with driving a tricycle. To do this, it is absolutely not necessary to be super gifted or to be born into a Jewish family ...

Download DOTA: http://yadi.sk/d/P3jnyQtuETsfH

ps
Any word spoken or read is management.

[Yarosvet]

Quote: Boris55

Look at the video you did not watch ...

Watched (by the way, we are from the last discussion on "YOU").

the video says if you impose the wrong culture on society, then it will die within three generations

Although it says something completely different from what you "retell", it is still sucked from one place - evidence of these statements 0.

Don't you think that today's Europe is a good example of this?

Why? Both Europe, the USA and the Russian Federation are heterogeneous, and even the correction for the stupid TV propaganda of the European problems needs to be done: of those friends of mine who have wound up in the EU or the USA there is not one who would notice serious cultural differences between them and us. But the differences in relations between the state and the person in terms of social guarantees and enforcement of legal norms are out of the question for everyone, and these differences are not in favor of the Russian Federation.

IN DOTA...

You got confused by conspiracy theories and unproven balabolism - just try to think logically, discarding all unproven and not interfaced with the rest of the elements of the logical system.

Any word spoken or read is management.

Have you directed a lot?

[Boris55]

Quote: Yarosvet

Have you directed a lot?

Well, did you answer me?
Isn't that management? Depending on what we write, we get an answer.
If the word did not rule, it would not be there.

Flyers, newspapers, media, pictures, movies ... Tell me, do they only reflect reality? Only reality was somehow different with us and with them, about us and about them ... And such a statement as: "To tell the truth, only the truth, nothing but the truth and never when the whole truth" heard?
It is in this "never the whole truth" that the control element lies.

Do you remember the hype now with salt, then with buckwheat? Warehouses were full, there was no place to put a new crop. A couple of replicas on TV and stale goods left at an overpriced price.

And about Hussein’s chemical weapons ... from the beginning there was a word with a test tube - then a gallows ... It didn’t work with Sadam, it was ours against their words.

The constitution, laws (written word) doesn’t it regulate, control our behavior?

Any word spoken or written is management.

[Yarosvet]

Quote: Boris55

Isn't that management?

Is communication the same for you?

If the word did not rule, it would not be

Following your logic, I have to assume that your bladder periodically controls you

Leaflets, newspapers, media, paintings, movies ... Tell me that they only reflect reality?

They provide information and are partly able to shape the worldview. Management is a conscious process in which a word can only be a tool.

It is in this "never the whole truth" that the control element is laid

Rather, wisdom driven by experience.

Do you remember the hype now with salt, then with buckwheat? Warehouses were full, there was no place to put a new crop. A couple of replicas on TV and stale goods left at an overpriced price

See about management tool and logic.

And about Hussein's chemical weapons ... from the beginning there was a word with a test tube - then a gallows ... It didn’t work with Sadam, against their words - ours was

You knead everything in one pile ...

The constitution, laws (written word) doesn’t it regulate, control our behavior?

It does not regulate, it regulates the understanding of the need to prevent a mess and possible repressive measures (and it doesn’t affect everyone)

Any word spoken or written is

Once again I ask - do you have your own thoughts, or do you think memorized cliches?

[Boris55]

Again, we have a difference in understanding ...
Let's decide what management is.
Management society and people - this is primarily an information impact.

... a word can only be an instrument

management tool?
What other management tools are there? Please announce the entire list

Quote: Yarosvet

Following your logic, I have to assume that your bladder periodically controls you

And try to ignore his urges, then either the bubble will burst or sate, if you do not recover in time. In one and in the other case, the smell is not pleasant.
We are part of nature and fighting with it is dearer to ourselves.

[Yarosvet]

Quote: Boris55

Management society and people - this is primarily an information impact

Not really: management in the context under consideration is a conscious process with an intermediate goal of stimulating an individual / group to action / inaction, which allows achieving a relatively final goal.
In a broad sense, any impact is informational (including a blow to the head with a brick), in a narrow one it is far from always (the same blow by the same brick is a physical impact).
In both senses, informational impact is not necessarily a word. If this is still a word, then it is an effect only if the planned effect is achieved - if the effect is not achieved, then this is not an effect, but simply information.

What other management tools are there? Please announce the entire list

Actions (more effective by the way), gestures, facial expressions, individual sounds, images.

Quote: Yarosvet

And try to ignore his urges, then either the bubble will burst or sate

Yes, but where does the management?

[Boris55]

Quote: Yarosvet

management in this context is conscious process

And with those who did not realize we begin "actions (more effective by the way), gestures, facial expressions, individual sounds, images"...

Quote: Yarosvet

Yes, but where does the management?

And I did not understand what it is - "Following your logic, I have to assume that your bladder periodically controls you"

I'm sorry. That's all for today. Affairs.

[Yarosvet]

Quote: Boris55

And with those who did not realize ...

The main thing is that you realize what you are doing and why - for the time being your assumptions and assumptions are based

Quote: Yarosvet

And I do not understand what it is

Well, of course - you say that "if the word did not rule, it would not exist": therefore, continuing the course of your thoughts, I have to admit that since you have a bladder, it means that it controls you

[user]

Do you guys accidentally confuse the site?

[Botanologist]

Quote: Boris55

Management of society and people is primarily an information impact.

In principle, it is wrong. You can "influence information" for years, but there will be no control. In general, PR is a more complex matter, there is no need to simplify.

What other management tools are there? Please announce the entire list

I will not announce the whole thing, but offhand - laws, power structures, myths, relationships, traditions, morality and more. The media work on the themes of myths, relationships, morality. And something else

[cdrt]

Quote: Boris55

Quote: Yarosvet

But all kinds of kobes do what those in power have always done - they try to convince everyone that in order to manage something it is necessary either to be born super gifted, or to learn tons of some kind of schemes, moreover, never verified by anyone.

You didn’t see the video ... By the way, the video says that if you impose the wrong culture on society, then it will die within three generations. Don't you think that today's Europe is a good example of this?

In the bunker of all 209 pages, I think I can read it for everyone. And if there is no desire for us to be driven again as in the 90's, then at least learn the basics of control, starting with driving a tricycle. To do this, it is absolutely not necessary to be super gifted or to be born into a Jewish family ...

Download DOTA: http://yadi.sk/d/P3jnyQtuETsfH

ps
Any word spoken or read is management.

What is management you misunderstand.
Do you want to know what it is - or military regulations read what management is, well, or a textbook on cybernetics

[common man]

Stupidity. The image does not match the sound.

[Gardamir]

They taught that, but we did not believe. We thought all this for a long time, and ran into the market, as if in ...

[avt]

Quote: Russian

since 1991 alcohol "ROYAL" and other imported alcohol have appeared in free trade.

And "tobacco crisis"? And then, how dashingly and quickly Moscow factories became branches of tobacco multinational companies? it was under Brezhnev.

[Rider]

Quote: avt

And the tobacco crisis?

by the way on the "tobacco crisis"
in 1988 in the USSR there were 4 tab factories.
so 3 of them were SIMULTANEOUSLY stopped for re-equipment.
and nicotine deficiency appeared.
and then (as you said) the factories converted for the state account were bought up by foreigners on a cheap basis.

analyzing the topic of deficit, you can find a lot of interesting things.
for example, many are aware of a deficiency of washing powders of shampoos and soaps.
however, according to statistics, the release of these items not only did not stop, but also increased, only the lion's share of the product went abroad (at very reasonable prices) and settled in warehouses.

I remember in 1992, at work, my father was given laundry detergent in simple packs without marking and label.
only issue stamp and year - 1988.

this is how the "deficit" appeared

and without frank betrayal of the upper ranks there could not have done.

Suffice it to recall the statement of Yakovlev (the ideologue of perestroika) "we broke the back of the scoop."

[atalef]

Quote: Rider

At 1988 in the USSR there were 4 tab factories. So 3 of them were SIMULTANEOUSLY stopped for refitting. So there was a shortage of nicotine. And then (as you said) factories converted for state accounts were bought up by foreigners on a cheap basis.

C'mon 4 factories, Only in St. Petersburg there was 2, but all in alliance

The USSR (1975) ranks third in the world in the production of tobacco products. There are enterprises producing cigarettes and cigarettes in almost all republics, and tobacco-fermentation plants in the southern regions of the country. Large tobacco enterprises: Leningrad Factory named after Uritskiy, Rostov factory (DGTF), Moscow factories "Java" and "Dukat", Krasnodar and Kishinev factories.

And you can add, Kiev, Minsk, Vitebsk
, Grodno, In general, over 50 large and medium enterprises.

Quote: Rider

For example, many people are aware of a shortage of washing powders of shampoos and soaps. However, according to statistics, the release of these items not only did not stop, but also increased, but only the lion's share of the product went abroad (at very reasonable prices) and settled in stores.

Can you link to statistics? And then I remember the same deficit and I wonder who bought our washing powder?

Quote: Rider

Suffice it to recall the statement of Yakovlev (the ideologue of perestroika) "we broke the back of the scoop."

Can I link to the source? Or again not?

[poquello]

Empty shelves in the USSR is just the lack of goods on the shelves. For the appearance of the goods on the counter, it was necessary the desire for commodity ed, warehouse, director of the store.

for the goods to go to the store, you needed a desire to bring them the goods, the warehouse, the director of the supply base, and so on towards enlargement.

[atalef]

Quote: Rider

At 1988 in the USSR there were 4 tab factories. So 3 of them were SIMULTANEOUSLY stopped for refitting. So there was a shortage of nicotine. And then (as you said) factories converted for state accounts were bought up by foreigners on a cheap basis.

C'mon 4 factories, Only in St. Petersburg there was 2, but all in alliance

The USSR (1975) ranks third in the world in the production of tobacco products. There are enterprises producing cigarettes and cigarettes in almost all republics, and tobacco-fermentation plants in the southern regions of the country. Large tobacco enterprises: Leningrad Factory named after Uritskiy, Rostov factory (DGTF), Moscow factories "Java" and "Dukat", Krasnodar and Kishinev factories.

And you can add, Kiev, Minsk, Vitebsk
, Grodno, In general, over 50 large and medium enterprises.

Quote: Rider

For example, many people are aware of a shortage of washing powders of shampoos and soaps. However, according to statistics, the release of these items not only did not stop, but also increased, but only the lion's share of the product went abroad (at very reasonable prices) and settled in stores.

Can you link to statistics? And then I remember the same deficit and I wonder who bought our washing powder?

Quote: Rider

Suffice it to recall the statement of Yakovlev (the ideologue of perestroika) "we broke the back of the scoop."

Can I link to the source? Or again not?

[Beck]

Quote: atalef

Can I link to the source? Or again not?

The author of Soviet times is a journalist, or what?

It was then MGIMO graduates who worked as journalists abroad and part-time acting as KGB officers, or vice versa worked as KGB officers, and part-time were journalists, wrote similar articles. Comparing the average salaries and purchasing power of our citizens and Western citizens. And in all seriousness, they made such calculations that Soviet citizens live much richer than citizens of damned capitalism. You read such an article and it became somehow more satisfying, against the background of half-empty counters and total deficit.

If in the West, wages were calculated according to the formulas for the production of products, their quality, the size of the surplus value of the product, etc. That in the USSR were completely different criteria.

MAIN CRITERION. The salary of a Soviet citizen was calculated so that he would have enough of it right next to the next salary, well, maybe with some insignificant margin.

FROM WHAT. Just because a citizen was not rich, to completely depend on the state. And prosperity breeds independence and one's own opinion. It is from here that the ban on private property is born, precisely from here the defeat of the kulaks (this standard of prudent farming), and it is from here the collective farms. This dependence can rightfully include free apartments. If you are against the government, you won’t get an apartment.

And since the salary was enough from now until now, "nonsense" flourished in the country. Whoever worked where, he dragged. Food, nuts, paper, wire, grain and so on.

This is so offhand, without a detailed analysis of the refutation of the author’s article.

[Sour]

Quote: Beck

MAIN CRITERION. The salary of a Soviet citizen was calculated so that he would have enough of it right next to the next salary, well, maybe with some insignificant margin.

I am not a supporter of the Soviet system, but I will object to you. salaries were also different. I worked as a driver before the army, and received 400 rubles a month, and office workers in our fleet received 110-130 rubles, my boss received 150. After college, I worked as a mechanic in a convoy, and received much less than drivers.

[Beck]

Quote: Sour

I worked as a driver before the army, and received 400 rubles a month, and office workers in our fleet received 110-130 rubles,

Of course, the salaries of specific representatives of a particular profession were different. But I talked about the general structure. Secretaries also received not feeble money.

[poquello]

Quote: Beck

Quote: Sour

I worked as a driver before the army, and received 400 rubles a month, and office workers in our fleet received 110-130 rubles,

Of course, the salaries of specific representatives of a particular profession were different. But I talked about the general structure. Secretaries also received not feeble money.

)))) Of course, about the general structure, and also (I suggest) there isn’t much money.

[kostella85]

I have a father (by the way today is his birthday, 61 years old) from the workshop mechanics - hydraulic artists, went to a locksmith, since the salary at the assembly was 2 times higher !!!!

[cdrt]

Quote: Sour

Quote: Beck

MAIN CRITERION. The salary of a Soviet citizen was calculated so that he would have enough of it right next to the next salary, well, maybe with some insignificant margin.

I am not a supporter of the Soviet system, but I will object to you. salaries were also different. I worked as a driver before the army, and received 400 rubles a month, and office workers in our fleet received 110-130 rubles, my boss received 150. After college, I worked as a mechanic in a convoy, and received much less than drivers.

And the candidate of sciences, a very strong biologist (now by the way the head of one of the leading Russian academic institutes on the topic) received 130 rubles, with all the premiums - 150 rubles.
Having left on a contract in the USA, he was already receiving 75 thousand dollars (this was in 1989, there were other dollars, and there were also wages in them too)

[Beck]

Quote: cdrt

A Ph.D., a very strong biologist

I don’t know how much our fellow countryman gets in a specially created laboratory for him in the USA. But probably orders of magnitude more than being the head of the military laboratory in the Sov. The army.

He is a colonel of medical services, a microbiologist. Creator of the fighting plague strain.

A laboratory in the USA seems to be developing defense against bacteriological weapons.

[user]

Then the question is vain.
When did blacks (sorry African Americans) get suffrage?
I mean, if you compare us with foreign countries, then you need to take into account such trifles.

[user]

For those who are minus, like that I would not pin them.
in the 60s of the last century, African Americans received the right to elect and be elected.

[poquello]

Quote: Beck

...
MAIN CRITERION. The salary of a Soviet citizen was calculated so that he would have enough of it right next to the next salary, well, maybe with some insignificant margin.

go nuts, do not tell me which of the salaries I receive in approximately one time span meets this criterion -110 rubles and 240 rubles, and how then to be with the second?

[Beck]

Quote: poquello

go nuts, do not tell me which of the salaries I receive in approximately one time span meets this criterion -110 rubles and 240 rubles, and how then to be with the second?

Both that, and another. It’s just that you had to save more or less in order to reach the next payday.

[poquello]

Quote: Beck

Quote: poquello

go nuts, do not tell me which of the salaries I receive in approximately one time span meets this criterion -110 rubles and 240 rubles, and how then to be with the second?

Both that, and another. It’s just that you had to save more or less in order to reach the next payday.

Either your life was and is any other, or you have fun with philosophy.

[Beck]

Quote: poquello

Either your life was and is any other, or you have fun with philosophy.

First, you probably read inattentively.

The second follows from the first. The essence of the article. The bottom line is that the author wants to convince us that the salary in the USSR ensured a normal standard of living and that today's salaries are lower than the USSR salaries in terms of a living wage. In this case, the author juggles and juggles.

I say that this is not so. And I give an example of such propaganda comparisons of communist writers, who in all seriousness claimed that wages in the United States are lower than the cost of living than in the USSR.

And specific salaries, yours or mine or the third, in Soviet times, are not some kind of criterion. This is private. If the secretary of the district committee received 1000 rubles, this does not mean that all the people lived well.

[cdrt]

Quote: Russian

Probably everyone remembers; "dry law", queues at the only store selling vodka (at least in our city). And since 1991 alcohol "ROYAL" and other imported alcohol have appeared in free trade. Was there a "dry law" at all?

If in doubt - go to the Crimea, talk to winemakers, they will tell how the vineyards were cut down during the fight against alcohol

[Humpty]

More about the black Russophobic (anti-Soviet) myths of the time of the hunchback. The Kirghiz were convinced that there wasn’t enough lamb, since it was full in Leningrad, and the shelves were breaking. According to the logic of hoaxes, Leningraders ate Kyrgyz rams with a wild meal. Now the Kirghiz must have eaten heartily, the number of livestock has decreased. About how the population in the Armenian SSR was already convinced of the shortage of dairy products, it was despite the fact that in Armenia there was the highest in the union (it is possible that they consumed these products in the world. In the Kazakh SSR they fought for the cessation of nuclear tests (which is quite understandable), for nature means.
Why, then, during the years of independence, the saiga was on the verge of extinction.

[Shurale]

As in 17 and 90, food shortages were created artificially ...

[Nayhas]

Quote: Shurale

As in 17 and 90, food shortages were created artificially ...

How old are you? Deficit in the 90s where they saw? If there was always a deficit.

[Mower]

They confuse warm with soft ..... I imagined myself buying 130 kg of beef, by this time she certainly was, but in commercial stores .... and at other prices.

[Mower]

Someone wants to argue? Or anonymously put the cons more interesting?

[Sunjar]

I didn’t minus you personally, but I’ll explain that the article is about the fact that an artificial shortage of goods was created. And the fact that in some places and at different prices was one of the means of escalating the situation. Should local princes have somewhere to buy tasty food for themselves, didn’t they stand along with everyone in the lines with coupons? They did not have personal farms and cooks then. Only village ones could feed themselves. But no matter how urban, unless someone had their own cottage, but there too, insufficient food can be grown.

[Nayhas]

Quote: Sunjar

that the article is precisely about the fact that an artificial method created a shortage of goods.

Yeah, and milk was also stored in secret warehouses? What about cars?

[poquello]

Quote: Nayhas

Quote: Sunjar

that the article is precisely about the fact that an artificial method created a shortage of goods.

Yeah, and milk was also stored in secret warehouses? What about cars?

What about cars? They also had two prices, the price when buying in turn and the market. There was also a price when buying by pull, between the market and in turn, but it fluctuated greatly from the height of patronage.

[poquello]

Quote: Sunjar

... They did not have personal farms and cooks then. Only village ones could feed themselves. But no matter how urban, unless someone had their own cottage, but even there, insufficient food can be grown.

Well, it’s in vain you think so, with princes it may not be with everyone, but life from the life of cogs was very different.

[cdrt]

Quote: Sunjar

I didn’t minus you personally, but I’ll explain that the article is about the fact that an artificial shortage of goods was created. And the fact that in some places and at different prices was one of the means of escalating the situation. Should local princes have somewhere to buy tasty food for themselves, didn’t they stand along with everyone in the lines with coupons? They did not have personal farms and cooks then. Only village ones could feed themselves. But no matter how urban, unless someone had their own cottage, but there too, insufficient food can be grown.

For non-living in those days I explain:
Local kings did not mix with the "cattle" called Soviet citizens. There were Special Distributors in which all the right quality products were always available at cheap prices. And some were also given out free kits. It began, in my opinion, with the secretaries of the district committees of the CPSU of our party and Soviet employees, starting from similar levels of the hierarchy. There were special state farms that were raised for them, at all large meat processing plants there were special workshops that worked for special distributors

[baltika-18]

Quote: CASTLE

Someone wants to argue?

I’ll just tell you. At that time I lived in Siberia, in the city we had OPC supply. If you were an adult at that time, then there was no need to explain that this was not necessary. In 90-91, I had to work for about six months in OKS (capital construction department) , at work once was on the basis of the ORS (the railway branch was one of our warehouses were located with theirs), they were looking for our equipment, it was pushed into them by mistake. The warehouses were filled with products and materials, and supplies did not stop, wagons for unloading Storekeepers said that letting go to stores is prohibited only according to the standards set from somewhere above. By the way, when the prices were released, the stores really filled up instantly.
Nothing was released to collective farms and enterprises, neither materials nor spare parts. Then, when "freedom" came, all this began to be sold, and for cash and exchanged for another product, there were many schemes. Why do I know all this? I had to take part in this Bacchanalia Interesting years, you can write an adventure novel.

[Mower]

there was no stable meat in stores all the nineties starting from the 80th, at best, supersets and half-dead chickens (blue). So whether you like it or not, I don’t really believe in the cosyrological version. Although I read articles about it just recently. Well, or such

http://www.sovross.ru/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=589752

It was certainly easier to wander around Moscow, but do not forget about the KGB, which knew almost everything, and everything was completely everything in the country’s security (albeit food) issues. And of course I know the ORS and OXs

[avt]

Quote: baltika-18

The storekeepers said that it was forbidden to let them go to the shops only according to the standards set from somewhere above. By the way, when the prices were released, the stores really filled up instantly. And the OPC bosses later became the most successful businessmen. The same thing happened at the bases of Agropromsnab.
Nothing was released to collective farms and enterprises, neither materials nor spare parts. Then, when "freedom" came, all this began to be sold, and for cash and exchanged for other goods, there were many schemes.

“The Chekists gave free rein to the swindlers, having their own interest of diamonds. And at the same hour the gentlemen threw off their bast shoes from the common swamp, now they are in good order and" honored ", rowing lava from the common pond.

[Mower]

So, what am I talking about? In the year 90 of this beef ..... in the afternoon with fire at the prices of the author of the article.

[poquello]

I confirm about the bases, but argue with what?

[cdrt]

Either the absolutely stubborn fan of the USSR or a young sheep can write about the artificiality of the deficit.

I remember well how meat was in short supply and the anecdote of those times
- And what is it that you have meat with chips, wool, a chain hanging down somehow?
Saleswoman Answering Patter
- what do you want, dog 5th grade, chopped with a booth

You can recall the sausage trains, you can bluebirds (these are the very hens who died with their death) and how the shops stood in line, waiting for them to be taken out. You can recall how the queue for the year on the terrible Romanian walls was recorded.

Many things.
It just needs to be remembered (and then today's life will seem much, much more comfortable) or to know (well, studying this real statistics, good now these data are open, well ... think before making conclusions

[Sunjar]

Here you are, comrades, examples from the real state of affairs of the time. A couple of examples are more specific, and one according to recollections from the media of that time. I’ll start with the media: since the railway networks in the USSR were not badly developed and there was a lot of different branches, we decided to drive off a couple of trains to Siberian forests to create this very artificial shortage (how many tons of sugar?). And figs would know if these compounds were found, but whole gangs of bears began to shy away in the vicinity, and even apparently bukhov (real). Traced shorter after them, and stumbled upon these compounds. And the bears are drunk, because the sugar slowly fermented and turned into a swill. But for bears, happiness was ...

And two more specific examples. In those days, the Perm Bicycle Plant (produced Kama) was a very successful enterprise (and there were also some military facilities there, and because of this, the state followed it very closely), and bicycles were sold on the fly: sometimes even a pre-order had to be made. And one fine day an order came from above (after all, the director of the plant could not have come up with such a thing: he would have put him for arbitrariness): do not deliver bicycles anywhere. But production continued. So many bicycles were made that they filled all the warehouses to the eyeballs, and then they began to store them simply on the street. At first they covered it with tarpaulin, and then in general they just left it in the rain.
One pharmacist (he was then the head of the warehouse) also said that once the director came and ordered the goods not to be delivered anywhere. The warehouse was again jam-packed, even in the corridors they began to make up boxes with medicines.

In view of this, when the monkey talks begin that the commies gobbled up everything - I give these examples. They, damn it on figs, and nibbled or searched for bicycles, they ate all the soap or soap, and much, much more.

As well as about the possibilities of people and their purchasing power: with what ease could a person go by train wherever he wanted? Tickets for the train then cost a lot less, both for the train and for the plane. One of the workers of the same bicycle factory once a quarter or even a little more often flew to Perm from Moscow to Moscow to buy rare products and clothes. How often can the average residents of Russia afford the average salary?

[Motors1991]

I can add my own five kopecks. For some reason, no one pays attention to the emergence of cooperatives if memory serves us in 1988. So, in those days, enterprises didn’t dare to use cash, say our ATP - five hundred cars, one thousand one hundred people working, but the chief accountant had the right to spend 10 (ten) rubles a month in cash, while at the same time, cooperatives, led entirely by Komsomol leaders, could turn millions of cash, and they threw these millions into buying up liquid goods, you can always put a couple of tens of thousands rubles and he will drive the trains wherever you say. By that time, by the way, planning had been pooped and the plan had ceased to be law. Enterprises were allowed to develop horizontal ties and here the Komsomol members with their cooperatives were very welcome. And there, by the way, again released prices and the party-Komsomol barefoot raped us in full.

[user]

In the very beginning of the 90s, at our airbase, in ZabVO there was a train with aviation kerosene. All capacities were occupied and there was no where to empty the train, while the railway workers demanded money for a simple carriage, there was no money for that either. Fuel was drained directly down the slope.
I mean, with such an organization, nothing will ever be enough and there will never be anything.

[Soldier]

Of course, the deficit was created artificially. From early memories, in Novosibirsk, like in many other cities, there was a terrible deficit in the buckwheat and condensed milk shop in the late 80s, and in the neighborhood in V / Ch the usual “consumable product”

[Mower]

After the army, I didn’t eat buckwheat after 15 years, though it was 10 years earlier.

[makarov]

Around 1985 in the neighborhood, the floor was bought by visitors from the Yaroslavl region. They fucked up with the abundance of goods on the shelves of the store, and without any queues. They told me that at that time they had noodles and pasta sold by coupons, and not everyone got it yet .. I found it hard to believe

[Mower]

it was also present. The north was supplied well, the southern regions as more productive most likely due to local food production. But the central regions were poorly supplied, but I won’t lie, it’s just with words.

[baltika-18]

Quote: CASTLE

. But the central regions were supplied poorly, but I will not lie, it is only with words.

Well, I wouldn’t say that. In the 80s, Ivanovo Region. The products were constantly, dumplings (not comparable with the current ones), chicken, milk. Of course, I don’t remember what they were, but everything else is free. The meat in the shops was shitty, but On the market without any problems, more expensive of course. Even in the village we had cattle in almost every yard. The mother kept two piglets all the time, one for herself, one for sale. It was cheap bread, 14 kopecks, it was called chicken, to feed cattle the most. There were 16 kopecks and 18 each, that’s good for people. And the deficit began in the early 80s, one of the reasons was the theft of trade. Left a lot, was sold at inflated prices through markets , then part of the money was spent through stores, it seems like the sale went through, the rest is affordable.

[Mower]

I can’t say about the central regions, I myself went to the seas in Murmansk, visited Krasnodar and Crimea. I knew about the shortage of products in the center from the words of the guys from the crew of the ship. There was no sugar abroad either, just my problems ..... but a freebie tooth on a Soviet steamer cure the queue in small Britain.

[baltika-18]

Quote: CASTLE

I can’t say about the central regions, I went to the seas in Murmansk myself, visited Krasnodar and Crimea. I knew about the shortage of products in the center from the words of the guys from the crew of the ship

You know, it’s hard to compare pretty much. If we take Moscow, we are 350 km from it, then we have a shit compared to it. And if Nizhny is 200 miles, then it’s about the same, but our beer was better than in Nizhny.

[Sour]

Quote: baltika-18

Products were, dumplings (not compare with current)

Such creepy crap like Soviet store dumplings is hard to find. Every second dumpling crawled during cooking. Offal and waste were put in the minced meat (I know from a friend, she worked at the meat-packing plant then).
Although dying of nostalgia for the scoop, of course, I am unanimously opposed.

[Sour]

Guilty, wrong. It’s impossible to objectively argue, only quietly minus.
Some jerk, having heard a lot of mom’s and father’s tales about the scoop, put a minus.
He himself did not smell this scoop, or lived then in a well-fed capital. Now would be a time machine, but send it to the soviet provincial town. You would look, and the brains would be aired, and the present would appreciate.

[cdrt]

Quote: Sour

Quote: baltika-18

Products were, dumplings (not compare with current)

Such creepy crap like Soviet store dumplings is hard to find. Every second dumpling crawled during cooking. Offal and waste were put in the minced meat (I know from a friend, she worked at the meat-packing plant then).
Although dying of nostalgia for the scoop, of course, I am unanimously opposed.

Since dumplings since childhood in the 70s, my favorite dish is fully support you.
In Moscow, they really soured somewhere from 1984-85. The good truths only appeared a year ago so in 2008

[cdrt]

Quote: baltika-18

Quote: CASTLE

. But the central regions were supplied poorly, but I will not lie, it is only with words.

Well, I wouldn’t say that. In the 80s, Ivanovo Region. The products were constantly, dumplings (not comparable with the current ones), chicken, milk. Of course, I don’t remember what they were, but everything else is free. The meat in the shops was shitty, but On the market without any problems, more expensive of course. Even in the village we had cattle in almost every yard. The mother kept two piglets all the time, one for herself, one for sale. It was cheap bread, 14 kopecks, it was called chicken, to feed cattle the most. There were 16 kopecks and 18 each, that’s good for people. And the deficit began in the early 80s, one of the reasons was the theft of trade. Left a lot, was sold at inflated prices through markets , then part of the money was spent through stores, it seems like the sale went through, the rest is affordable.

That's about the reason for the deficit that a lot went to the left - I completely agree, but this is one of the reasons

[paunch]

in 1989 was in Borisov (BelSSR). I was also surprised that they have many goods in the public domain. And here in Nizhny Novgorod (Gorky region), much without coupons could not be bought.

[Normal]

Compare what was with what is impossible.

Based on these salary parameters and average price levels for the country, it turns out that in 1990 a Soviet citizen could acquire, at his wage (for each type of product as a whole), ...

The fact of the matter is that he could not. Then the word "buy" was not in use, there was the word "get." The word "buy" erases the difference between these concepts and masks all the idiocy that existed long before the introduction of coupons in 90-91.

But the fact that idiocy in providing consumer goods, a shortage of everything and everything was created and maintained artificially, I have no doubt.
By the mid-70s, a certain part of the Soviet elite had completely degenerated.
The party, economic, military and special services pseudo-elite finally and irrevocably broke away from the bulk. Colossal monetary and positive resources were accumulated which could not be realized within the framework of the existing system.
What de pseudo elite had de facto needed to be legalized de jure. The creation of a deficit in everything is one of the main mechanisms that allowed the Soviet pseudo-elite to justify the transition from a socialist development path to a capitalist one.

[baltika-18]

Quote: Normal

But the fact that idiocy in providing consumer goods, a shortage of everything and everything was created and maintained artificially, I have no doubt.
By the mid-70s, a certain part of the Soviet elite had completely degenerated

I agree with that, Vladimir. The deficit is very beneficial for a certain part. He gave both money and a certain power.

[oracul]

In personnel management, when it becomes necessary to reorganize (reorganize) a company, western management recommends the following actions:
- destroy the company's paradigm - speak believably, but not necessarily truthfully;
- It is advisable (to speed up the process) to organize artificial suffering.
Put the state in the company's place and here's the answer - which, in fact, was done. No wonder the boys studied at Harvard.

[My address]

A. Volodin.
I completely agree with you. When my mother was with me, a friend from TORG (or what kind of snab, I don’t remember and don’t understand) during the deficit said that the warehouses were full, that they refused to supply, asked to be allowed to "throw" the surplus into stores, but did not give it.
I also know that the stores are empty and the refrigerators are full. Including those bought from a private trader. The hype, the people are waiting for further deterioration and are grabbing everything.

About other.
I suggest everyone to go over the comments of Volodin and Martha (Dude) and our writers instruct the pros. Raise them in ranks. For the cause.

[Prometey]

Quote: My address

When my mother was with me, a friend from TORG (or what kind of snab, I don’t remember and don’t understand) during the deficit said that the warehouses were full, that they refused to supply, asked to be allowed to "throw" the surplus into stores, but did not give it.

My mother at the TORGA base worked in a small town (then everything was distributed centrally to shops from this base). Warehouses, indeed, were crammed with all kinds of crap, which were not sold in stores. Although, yes, during the holidays they always kept part of the goods to throw on the shelves, for example, the same crystal.

[Old scoop]

. Apparently the author -> author -> the author decided to raise a muddy wave of stink, but somehow crooked and not skillful. Learn to troll professionally.

[11111mail.ru]

Quote: Old scoop

Learn to troll professionally

Finally, a professional has appeared! Now teach!

[realist]

Well, I don’t know, I don’t have all the information to argue, but I’ll say that I saw it myself in the 80s - in the province the shops were empty YEARS! All my relatives and friends went to Stavropol and minvody, and once a year to Moscow to buy at least something! And this despite the fact that our region was still prosperous.

[caxapob]

There was an artificial shortage, there were also goods from the market and from consumer cooperation, but at different prices. However, in Soviet times, my income was above average, and now more than 2 times lower than average (like many in the outback of the Russian Federation). The question is, how much can I buy food now? If you subtract the costs of housing and communal services (in the USSR, a penny), health care and education (in the USSR, almost for free) ... Maybe here is one of the reasons for today's abundance?

[Mower]

Well, given that three rubles I paid 3 rubles 71 kopecks, so I say they compare warm to soft. The level of consumption was much lower .... and not only in the Union

[Prometey]

I would argue a bit about the numbers in the article, although this is not important.
The average monthly wage in the USSR in 1990, according to the USSR State Statistics Committee, was 303 rubles.
This s / n was already above average. The salary of hard workers was an average of 150-200 rubles. Although it all depended on the region of residence.
The average monthly salary in Russia in 2013, according to Rosstat, will be about 29 thousand rubles.
Even so? Or are these indicators of Moscow and St. Petersburg? In our region, completely different indicators are 15-18 thousand.
The first coupons appeared before Gorbach. My grandfather was the chairman of the street committee and was in charge of the targeted issue of the coupon in the village. He began to issue them back in 1983.
And about the shortage of goods, it is probably difficult to find a sane explanation. Although from a narrow-minded point of view, the situation is seen in the moronic system of management and distribution in the late USSR, in the absence of economic independence of enterprises. For example, a relative worked for me at a sewing factory in a small town. The work and orders were in bulk. Pretty good sewn clothes for both adults and children. But all the products of the factory did not enter the local market at all, but went outside the region and into the union republics. And they were waiting for us when there would be an delivery of things, for example, from somewhere from Belgorod. Is there any explanation for this insanity? So it’s interesting: did anyone try to calculate the economy of the enterprise with such stupid logistics? Therefore, it is not surprising that in such a situation, the final indicator of labor productivity in the USSR was low when costs were apparently not considered.

[Nayhas]

Quote: Prometey

And about the shortage of goods, it is probably difficult to find a sane explanation.

You yourself gave the answer, quite sane:

Quote: Prometey

So it’s interesting: did anyone try to calculate the economy of the enterprise with such stupid logistics?

The manufacturers had absolutely control over how and where the goods will be sold, their task is to fulfill the plan and get a bonus for it. Absolutely no one cared whether consumers needed this product at all, whether they wanted to give their hard-earned money for it. I’m silent about quality, about this the Soviet media tried for years.

[cdrt]

Quote: Prometey

I would argue a bit about the numbers in the article, although this is not important.
The average monthly wage in the USSR in 1990, according to the USSR State Statistics Committee, was 303 rubles.
This s / n was already above average. The salary of hard workers was an average of 150-200 rubles. Although it all depended on the region of residence.
The average monthly salary in Russia in 2013, according to Rosstat, will be about 29 thousand rubles.
Even so? Or are these indicators of Moscow and St. Petersburg? In our region, completely different indicators are 15-18 thousand.
The first coupons appeared before Gorbach. My grandfather was the chairman of the street committee and was in charge of the targeted issue of the coupon in the village. He began to issue them back in 1983.
And about the shortage of goods, it is probably difficult to find a sane explanation. Although from a narrow-minded point of view, the situation is seen in the moronic system of management and distribution in the late USSR, in the absence of economic independence of enterprises. For example, a relative worked for me at a sewing factory in a small town. The work and orders were in bulk. Pretty good sewn clothes for both adults and children. But all the products of the factory did not enter the local market at all, but went outside the region and into the union republics. And they were waiting for us when there would be an delivery of things, for example, from somewhere from Belgorod. Is there any explanation for this insanity? So it’s interesting: did anyone try to calculate the economy of the enterprise with such stupid logistics? Therefore, it is not surprising that in such a situation, the final indicator of labor productivity in the USSR was low when costs were apparently not considered.

The author should not have guessed, but rather read economists who, since 1987, have clearly put a diagnosis of deficiency in my opinion. Starting from 1984-85, the authorities simply increased inflation by raising wages and incomes of the population, which, under the conditions of planned distribution, led to the sweeping of goods from the shelves.
Naturally, since the demand exceeded supply, prices should have started to grow, but they were set as planned, respectively, the balancing of supply and demand began using non-market methods (hiding goods in warehouses, distribution through their own, etc.) - not without reason then "The right people" and "rich" then became the trade workers (as admitted to the distribution mechanism and receiving for this the very difference in prices between the centrally established and determined real with the ratio of supply and demand).
From this point of view, the decision to allow cooperatives was a matter of the time it took for "traders" to lobby for interests in party circles. Not without reason, by the way, the first cooperators were "traders", shop assistants and Komsomol members (as curators). The next step has already been to build "cooperatives" into industrial value chains.

This is actually the year in 1990 was written ...
One had only to search the Internet

[kirgudu]

As I remember these times. When out of 23 tobacco factories, suddenly close for repairs 21.
When everything from the store suddenly disappears, and at some bases there is plenty of food that is being buried with a bulldozer.
Potato rots in vegetable storages - empty in stores.

Deficit in the USSR at the end of the 80s is a deliberate wrecking activity of a separate group of people. There is no way to explain.

And the desire to punish the guilty for the millions of victims during this troubled time has not gone away. Humpbacked is still alive, Yakovlev, Yeltsind, Gaidar, Chubais, Nemtsov ...

[Klim]

I understood all this back in 88

[cdrt]

Quote: Klim

I understood all this back in 88

This is literally a quote from the Golden Calf pickey vests.

[vladim.gorbunow]

Organization of the deficit is one of the directions. There is a lot of evidence of the simple destruction of products. Many remember the reports on dumps of allegedly expired meat products. Even more destructive were import purchases. They were made in an unplanned, emergency manner. External debt sharply increased, high-tech goods and machine tools, metals and energy were exported. All at bargain prices. Imports were treated the same as sausages. But the CMEA countries turned out to be creditors of the USSR. We were obliged to Romania and the Czech Republic from $ 3 to 6 billion, and these countries in those years became oil exporters, opened representative offices at the London Oil Exchange. A separate song is Chernobyl. Planned a dirty bomb. They could not have predicted that the superheated cooler on the zirconium rods would decompose into an explosive mixture. Her explosion broke the casing, water poured into the reactor and slowed down the reaction. Instead of deadly strontium, a column of steam raised iodine 131, much less dangerous. The USSR could fall apart already in 1986. The Gulf War killed us.

[Mower]

Yes, yes. And I also remember rumors and articles about the nomenclature and their satisfying rations, the well-wishers of a known nationality insinuatingly whispered about it in literature and on the box. They sang sweetly ... here we will change and live happily, but then other uncles came ... .which didn’t have any principles, and in 1991 they didn’t even pay child benefits.

[user]

Of course it was all, only I remember that the secretary of the district committee retired, so we often met him in a dairy store with a grocery store. That was in the mid-70s. Can you imagine this now?
Maybe of course in Moscow they were all taken to carts, and here in Siberia it was much easier. Although probably when he did not retire, he also had his rations.

[cdrt]

Quote: user

Of course it was all, only I remember that the secretary of the district committee retired, so we often met him in a dairy store with a grocery store. That was in the mid-70s. Can you imagine this now?
Maybe of course in Moscow they were all taken to carts, and here in Siberia it was much easier. Although probably when he did not retire, he also had his rations.

About special forces starting with the secretary of the district committee - a fact (Ivanovo), a friend had a grandfather

[Begemot]

In 1978, with an institute friend, I worked as a loader on a commercial trading base during the holidays. To say that everything was there on the subject of a farm was nothing to say. But the sales did not go through stores, but directly from the base, and goods were written off to the store as sold through the counter. During the month there were several rigging rifles, this is when a wagon or two goods arrive and it needs to be quickly unloaded and distributed. I don’t remember at all, but wagons came with German sewing machines, Czech chandeliers, Finnish paint (by the way - miranol and tikkurila, 78 year!), Chinese thermoses, refrigerators from Minsk and three or four more, I don’t remember. 20 percent got to the warehouse, the rest was immediately taken to the RAFiks, Volga, etc. for labor collectives, party and state apparatchiks. The remaining 15% diverged on their own and approximately 5% was sent to trade. Those. the appearance of a shortage of goods was created artificially, so it was beneficial to the traders and their owners. On New Year's Eve in 1990 in the city it was impossible to buy champagne. By the will of fate at that time I ended up at one of the fish bases - I received sets of red caviar and fish delicacies for the team. In a warm warehouse I made out stacks of champagne, no less than 100000 bottles, they were kept, because a new price tag was to come. This is the reason for the famine. Everything was, but it was all distributed according to the gray scheme.

[vladim.gorbunow]

Arabs - oil exporters, dissatisfied with the American policy of cheap oil (barrel = $ 15, August 1990) decided to repeat 74 and hired Saddam Hussein to attack Kuwait, naturally guaranteeing him cover. In November, barrel = $ 35. The Americans threaten Iraq, but they are clearly cowardly to bomb, the forecast is up to $ 100. The witness and participant of the further was personally. The Tyumen-Surgut railway line was filled with trains with a pipe of oil assortment in the northern direction and tanks in the southern direction. The stunted passenger traffic was virtually canceled. Transshipment by pipe depots has grown many times over. When the daily approach of 45 cars instead of 5 is a lot. Then the columns of Uralov and Krazov poked the pipe on the drilling rigs, where the predatory exploitation of the seams was carried out, skimmed the cream. The hottest were November and December. A great, but unknown economic feat, comparable to the labor exploits of the Second World War, was accomplished. Oil workers, metallurgists, power engineers, miners, transport workers were heroes. The country invested its last reserves in it. And in February 91, Desert Storm began. The smoke from the Kuwait oil fields stretched for hundreds of kilometers, the price of a barrel was $ 12. Apparently, we gave away some of the oil for free, since the transport possibilities were exhausted, if only we agreed to take it. Bush Sr. thanked oil producers for saving the world economy from the energy crisis.

[SCHUZMAN]

And there were books with durable goods, like coupons only for a family were given. I remember from that book a refrigerator, a washing machine were put 1 piece for 10 years, a vacuum cleaner 1 for 5 years, etc.

[cdrt]

Quote: SCHUZMAN

And there were books with durable goods, like coupons only for a family were given. I remember from that book a refrigerator, a washing machine were put 1 piece for 10 years, a vacuum cleaner 1 for 5 years, etc.

But I don’t remember that

[paunch]

Apparently they lived somewhere in the center :)

[Dimon-chik-79]

One gets the impression that the deficit of the early 90s, like the shortage of essential goods of 1917, are segments of a single whole - that contributes to the artificial formation of public opinion about the insolvency of the state.

- and what, there are some doubts that the state, or rather the "then" Communist Party that ruled the country at that time was insolvent? These grief reformers were not only unable to carry out an effective and adequate political and economic modernization of the country, but they were unable to keep power in their hands, ultimately plunged the state into chaos, which brought hunger of deprivation, wandering and death in the conflagration of numerous wars that broke out on the remains of a great country! By the way, these "steering changes" were nurtured by the "Brezhnev stagnation" and were the fruit of "sloppy selection of personnel" (which decide everything!)
Of course, there were forces that took advantage of dementia and weak-willed elite in their political or selfish ends.
But the main responsibility for this catastrophe lies with the people who "led" the country at that time!

[Volodin]

Apparently, you have slept badly today, as you are reading the article either in fragments, or not reading at all, but you are taken to comment.

Sausage? Meat? For many years?

How many more years? Where did you, our attentive, read it in the article? It is written that the goods immediately found themselves on store shelves after the adoption of the law on price liberalization. If you are over 10 years old, then you must remember this perfectly. And if you also served in the army, you should also know about such an "incident" as storing meat in the NZ mode in warehouses (meat of cows slaughtered in the 70s - have you heard this? ..)
And where is sour cream in general (although you probably do not know that even 80% sour cream is made from powdered milk) - this is by the way.

Have you got up early or got up on the wrong foot? It happens...

[dmb]

I will support. I oppose you quite often, but I try to argue my disagreement. The current fighter for a "bright capitalist tomorrow" reduces everything to the presence of sausage. which essentially differs little from the liberal public of the 90s, who accused the people of having traded "freedom for Soviet sausage." Yes, now there is no need to stand in lines, there are none, though mostly due to the fact that most of the population simply cannot purchase goods that previously constituted the notorious deficit. In addition, this same part of the population cannot afford qualified medical care, normal education for their children and, most importantly, housing. Does your opponent want to see the queues today? Yes, let him go to the local doctor or inquire about the number of people on the waiting list-beneficiaries from among the disabled, orphanages, etc. who will NEVER buy a home. In general, you can do without smoked sausage, but hardly without a roof over your head.

[edmed]

A little out of line, but I had to work in the Central Arsenal of the Pacific Fleet, a serviceman told a story about how the tar barrels were loaded onto the submarine, and it happened 79. What was the surprise of the crew when they opened the barrels and found raw smoked sausage in the sawdust, there was a stamp on the lids " People's Commissariat for Defense-39g. " And now on the topic, ask the old-timers of Bratsk when the coupons were introduced, just in the Olympics-80, from what I remember 200g. butter, 0.5kg of meat products, 2l. milk if it had time for distribution, so that the formed caste of distributors mat. values ​​won over material communism, it became cramped within this framework, hence the rapid collapse of the USSR. PS By pure chance, having got into the collective drunkenness of the party's assets, at the beginning of the 80s, I heard how THEY relate to ordinary citizens of the country, " power in our hands, we will arrange everything! "So set it up, life for yourself and your descendants, and existence for others, for the main message of those like them" Will break into people "and not" Be human. " Sorry for being chaotic, but somehow so.

[cdrt]

Quote: edmed

A little out of line, but I had to work in the Central Arsenal of the Pacific Fleet, a serviceman told a story about how the tar barrels were loaded onto the submarine, and it happened 79. What was the surprise of the crew when they opened the barrels and found raw smoked sausage in the sawdust, there was a stamp on the lids " People's Commissariat for Defense-39g. " And now on the topic, ask the old-timers of Bratsk when the coupons were introduced, just in the Olympics-80, from what I remember 200g. butter, 0.5kg of meat products, 2l. milk if it had time for distribution, so that the formed caste of distributors mat. values ​​won over material communism, it became cramped within this framework, hence the rapid collapse of the USSR. PS By pure chance, having got into the collective drunkenness of the party's assets, at the beginning of the 80s, I heard how THEY relate to ordinary citizens of the country, " power in our hands, we will arrange everything! "So set it up, life for yourself and your descendants, and existence for others, for the main message of those like them" Will break into people "and not" Be human. " Sorry for being chaotic, but somehow so.

+100500 to you. It was also funny at the same time to listen to the KGB-kov - "... cattle-people need to be controlled, and only we know how they will be better ...". This is a quote from a retired KGB general, my classmate's father.

[cdrt]

Quote: dmb

I will support. I oppose you quite often, but I try to argue my disagreement. The current fighter for a "bright capitalist tomorrow" reduces everything to the presence of sausage. which essentially differs little from the liberal public of the 90s, who accused the people of having traded "freedom for Soviet sausage." Yes, now there is no need to stand in lines, there are none, though mostly due to the fact that most of the population simply cannot purchase goods that previously constituted the notorious deficit. In addition, this same part of the population cannot afford qualified medical care, normal education for their children and, most importantly, housing. Does your opponent want to see the queues today? Yes, let him go to the local doctor or inquire about the number of people on the waiting list-beneficiaries from among the disabled, orphanages, etc. who will NEVER buy a home. In general, you can do without smoked sausage, but hardly without a roof over your head.

It’s interesting ... my son entered this year’s best university in the country for free - though 2 years before that he worked hard at the Olympics, but he didn’t pay a penny for tutors.
The first (former) spouse is married to a poor dude (zp apparently 40-50 thousand), she has a very sick child from him, she fights to cure and remove the disability.
So, ALL treatment, including a fairly high-tech one (including all kinds of hemodialysis, already 5 complex operations) is free !!! Doctors sometimes refuse to take "gratitude".
All treatment is free (if paid, it’s scary to think how much it would cost).
And next to her are also all the free moms with children from the districts. If that is Tatarstan.
So ... not so worse, but in many ways better

[Nayhas]

Quote: Volodin

It is written that the goods immediately found themselves on store shelves after the adoption of the law on price liberalization.

What kind of products? TVs Horizon and Emerald? A kitchen set of the Sibselmash plant (Novosibirsk will understand)? If you stood in lines (albeit not for groceries), then maybe you remember what you stood for? Services, carpets, furniture, shoes, clothes, tile, wallpaper, mixer, sanitary ware ... BUT production of either Eastern Europe or friendly countries. From the Soviet people stood in lines (for many years) behind an apartment, a car, a VCR El.VM-12. Enemies hid all this in warehouses preventing the development of Soviet industry?
PS: by products. What was stored in the warehouses of the National Assembly of the mobilization reserve is absolutely not relevant to this topic. The capacity of these warehouses was not rubber; it would not work to place new meat dishes every year there, so do not talk nonsense about the fact that somewhere the enemies hid the meat from the 70s every year replenishing supplies, so that in 1992. dump it on the market.

[Volodin]

Well, I say: definitely did not get enough sleep. Read the title of the article! Have you seen the word "food"? What "sanitary ware", what "mixers", what "carpets" ...

[zvereok]

Is Bush’s leg now a myth? Those. if meat appeared on the shelves, why bother the paws of the dinosaurs on them?

[Forest]

Watch the story of how revolutions and unrest are made - food is hidden and instigators point to the "guilty". So it was before the revolution of 17g. it was so in 91. And now it is no coincidence that buckwheat groats and eggs suddenly start to rise in price - they are checking the leverage.

[Harmony]

Yes guys! They raped us! Where did the KGB look, interesting ?!

[Yarosvet]

Quote: harmony

Where did the KGB look, interesting ?!

It didn’t look - it had

[cdrt]

Quote: harmony

Yes guys! They raped us! Where did the KGB look, interesting ?!

It looked that in the calculations their share was not reduced

[Isk1984]

The author paid me an average salary of 29000 across the country, in our region in the city (I keep silent about the village), it will probably be closer to 12-15, as for the deficit, today it definitely is, there are fewer and fewer quality products, for example a chocolate cake with peanuts that I remember in the 80s, I have never come close to analogues and have not met in our time ...

[Volodin]

Ivan, the average salary level is indicated on the Rosstat website. For what I bought, as they say, for what I sell. Well this is how the average temperature in the hospital.

[zvereok]

My wife has 8. salary, plus bonus 50% of salary, plus for combining and for training new employees. Total comes 19t. But this is more recently, when the stealing boss was transferred to another place to steal. With him there was 12-14, if she went to the sick-list, she could receive thousands of 5 — last spring it was. The nearest suburbs by the way.

[kostella85]

About 30 thousandth average salary - it's just a joke !!! Or some of them console themselves with these figures, they say: "I'm not that kind of g ... n, that's how people live well !!!"

[konvalval]

Quote: stroitel

Blockade grocery cards and Gorbachev coupons are things of the same order. Only some were tried in Nuremberg, while others are still hanging orders.

And then who is the current (former) prime minister (president). Means approving.

[saag]

Quote: Nayhas

From the Soviet people stood in lines (for many years) behind an apartment, a car, a VCR El.VM-12.

1985, Astrakhan, in the "Radio" store there is an Electronica VM-12 video recorder, but nobody needs it with its price of 3200 rubles

[SRC P-15]

I found the cards and I remember everything well. But, interestingly, there was no famine as such. He did not buy meat, kept pigs, chickens, ducks, etc., etc. I went to Moscow for sausage (which really was meat sausage). We bought everything in advance, it was enough for half a month. So it was possible to live. But when the full kirdyk came, it was after the 93rd. Neither salaries, nor feed for cattle. Cows began to be massively cut into meat in order to cash in on the management of state farms. Indeed, people were starving, for which thanks to the young reformers. Who at that time was fat, he is now in openwork.

[Sour]

Quote: СРЦ П-15

But, interestingly, there was no famine as such

So it is still gone. And even close.
But, of course, here on the forum not everyone will agree with this.
Just read that about snickering oligarchs and starving people.

[saag]

Quote: СРЦ П-15

He did not buy meat, kept pigs, chickens, ducks, etc., etc. I went to Moscow for sausage (

Well, you give, they kept pigs, but they went to Moscow for sausage, like it's the other way around :-)

[SRC P-15]

Quote: saag

Well, you give, they kept pigs, but they went to Moscow for sausage, like it's the other way around :-)

You probably have never had a farm. The piglet was usually slaughtered when frost began. For the whole year you can’t do any sausages, even if you have a freezer. Yes, we have few who made home-made sausage, stew yes, salt was salted. The meat is tasty when fresh, and ice cream is not the same. We went for sausage for a change: sausages there, sausages, and, of course, sweets for children. Excess meat was sold on the market, or handed over to the procurement office, there were such.

[tooth46]

I disagree with the article. From the very beginning of the 1960s the USSR could hardly provide itself with food and other things. And it was hard before. The increase in the provision of meat in 1963 was associated with a poor harvest and the ensuing forced mass slaughter of livestock, which there was nothing to feed. And in the future, the situation with food, as well as products of the light industry, electronics, was never rectified. In the reports and reports they wrote one thing (postscripts and eyewash plus outright deception of the party), but in reality it was not at all fun. If you believe those reports, on the milk yield in particular, then at least tear off the boobs of the cows, and it was technically impossible to squeeze out so much milk from the available livestock. Coupons-cards for the right (I emphasize - the right) to purchase scarce products and goods appeared in the late 1970s. I saw it myself, riding on business trips. Nevertheless, the population's refrigerators were not empty. But this only confirms the dedication of our women-housewives in the matter of feeding their families. And then off we go, but it got worse and worse. Have the older ones forgotten about the Food Program (remained unfulfilled)? In my opinion, it is the total deficit and lack of many things, including all sorts of rubbish, but without which life seems not very joyful, and caused the people to be attracted by the ideas of perestroika and, as a result, to build today's "bright future." Who is to blame: the bourgeoisie, or is it our leaders of those times, the great talkers and demagogues? Since the era of war communism, we have been convinced that the happiness of the people in millions of tons of smelted pig iron, mined coal, etc., and normal food and clothing is a second time, will be tolerated. The number did not work, as a result, a great country collapsed in exchange for sneakers with a thick, thick layer of chocolate (and then soy). What is surprising is that there are few drunkards in my black earth regions. The old ones died out like mammoths, and the young people don't drink much, although vodka has become much more accessible. Are we getting smarter, or what?

[Andrey Peter]

Quote: Yarosvet

It didn’t look - it had

It not only had, it took full part in this. It came to the point that they wanted to bend under themselves one of the structures of the Ministry of Internal Affairs-OBHSS. Since the OBKhSS was engaged in the verification of those same enterprises, warehouses, bases and shops, etc. Ie had completely financial and commodity information. And in general, I don’t understand where so many traitors got in at that time. Not only did they allow the hunchback traitor to come to power, so the KGB began to dance to his tune, and then often merged with the organized crime group to participate in privatization

[Yarosvet]

Quote: Andrey Peter

It not only had, it took full part in it.

This is what is meant by the word "have."

It came to the point that they wanted to bend under themselves one of the structures of the Ministry of Internal Affairs-OBHSS

They did not want to crush them - they competed: for such an "operation" it was necessary to interact with all key representatives of the authorities and law enforcement agencies - from the top of the CPSU and the KGB to the prosecutor's office and the army (the Ministry of Internal Affairs is no exception).

And in general, I don’t understand where so many traitors gathered in those days

It’s hard to say where, but definitely not in those days, but earlier: active actions to destabilize began somewhere in the early to mid-70s, and Andropov, who came to power through strange deaths and pushed Gorbachev into power, was probably the key figure.

[Normal]

Quote: Andrew Peter

It not only had, it took full part in this.

Quote: Yarosvet

They did not want to crush - they competed: for such an "operation" it was necessary to interact with all key representatives of the authorities and law enforcement agencies - from the top of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and the KGB, and ending with the prosecutor's office and the army (the Ministry of Internal Affairs is no exception)

By the mid-70s, a certain part of the Soviet elite had completely degenerated.
The party, economic, military and special services pseudo-elite finally and irrevocably broke away from the bulk of the population.

Quote: Andrew Peter

And in general, I don’t understand where so many traitors got in at that time. Not only did they allow the hunchback traitor to come to power, so the KGB began to dance to his tune, and then often merged with the organized crime group to participate in privatization

Quote: Yarosvet

It’s hard to say where, but definitely not in those days, but earlier: active actions to destabilize began somewhere in the early to mid-70s, and Andropov, who came to power through strange deaths and pushed Gorbachev into power, was probably the key figure.

Weak person. But Stalin has already died. The generation of the past war was bloodless. Those who didn’t have time for it and grabbed the post-war dare already wished for a peaceful and happy life, prosperity, position in society and tranquility for the acquired, not to mention their life.

What the pseudo elite had de facto had to be legalized de jure. Hence the mass of "traitors", hence Andpropov and Gorbachev. Hence the double-dealing of the special services.

[Yarosvet]

Quote: Normal

What the pseudo elite had de facto had to be legalized de jure. Hence the mass of "traitors", hence Andpropov and Gorbachev. Hence the double-dealing of the special services.

Hello Vladimir.
Everything said is clear and true, but I would like to determine the root: there is always the first vampire

[Normal]

Quote: Yarosvet

there is always the first vampire

Good morning.

Prince of this world.

And if we talk about the USSR, then of course Andropov is far from the last.

[Sour]

The deficit of the late 80s was created artificially, and primarily for political purposes.
By whom and for what - the question is ambiguous.
But he touched primarily on Moscow. In the provinces, as before, there was nothing, and in the late 80s there was nothing. In small provincial mono-cities, as well as in some regional centers, the introduction of coupons for some products was even perceived positively. For example, I know a city with several tens of thousands of population, where it was simply impossible to buy vodka and tea in the 70s. Such cities did not suffer with the introduction of the coupon system. Dear Muscovites and Leningraders (as well as those who lived then in the "fraternal republics"), don't judge by yourself. In the Russian province, even under Gorbachev, there was a deficit, even before him.

[SRC P-15]

I will never believe that somewhere, from someone, coupons were introduced in the 70s. It wasn’t that. In those years, life was not very bad. That they didn’t sell vodka (in my opinion) until 10 am, yes, it did. But there was no shortage of it at that time. Himself in 1973, he traveled as an forwarder to the city of Kashin for alcoholic drinks for vodka. It cost a penny for the state, and they sold it for 3 rubles.62 kopecks. and 4 rubles. 12 kopecks

[SRC P-15]

I will never believe that somewhere, from someone, coupons were introduced in the 70s. It wasn’t that. In those years, life was not very bad. That they didn’t sell vodka (in my opinion) until 10 am, yes, it did. But there was no shortage of it at that time. Himself in 1973, he traveled as an forwarder to the city of Kashin for alcoholic drinks for vodka. It cost a penny for the state, and they sold it for 3 rubles.62 kopecks. and 4 rubles. 12 kopecks

[Andrey Peter]

Quote: Yarosvet

It’s hard to say where, but definitely not in those days, but earlier: active actions to destabilize began somewhere in the early to mid-70s, and Andropov, who came to power through strange deaths and pushed Gorbachev into power, was probably the key figure.

This is unlikely. Andropov from the old committees and the rules did not last long, but the hunchback came after Chernenko. So it started later (I mean the political background, not the economic one). The economy was not yet ruined.

[Yarosvet]

Quote: Andrey Peter

This is unlikely. Andropov from the old committees

<< It not only had - it took full part in this >>

rules are not long

Why would a sick person climb into power (at the very top) and remove the KGB from submission to the Council of Ministers?

and the hunchback came after Chernenko

Who died under strange circumstances (along with Grechko, Kulakov, Masherov, Kosygin). What structure in the USSR was able to organize strange circumstances?

So it started later (I mean the political background, not the economic one). The economy was not yet ruined.

It was in the early to mid-70s that the shadow economy was growing rapidly, which for some reason was looked at through the fingers for some reason.

[Andrey Peter]

Quote: Yarosvet

It was in the early to mid-70s that the shadow economy was growing rapidly, which for some reason was looked at through the fingers for some reason.

I don’t remember that in those years. Give at least one example. In my opinion, the possibility of a shadow economy increased with the permission of cooperatives, and this is 1988.

[Andrey Peter]

By the way, the first traitor in the ranks of the KGB leadership was V. Bakatin. which with the filing of a hunchback gave the US more than one secret. And the supervisor Kryuchkov V.A. by the way he died after a short illness. In general, the devil will break his leg all the same it all started in 1981-84.

[Yarosvet]

Quote: Andrey Peter

In my opinion, the possibility of a shadow economy increased with the permission of cooperatives, and this is 1988.

At this time, it was essentially legalized.
It’s difficult to cite examples (I already wrote that there was almost no struggle with the phenomenon, and therefore there were no cases), but by the scale of the cooperative movement (often quite widely set) and the number of criminals hatched in the white light, one can judge the scope - the workshops and professional . crime worked together (I think this is obvious).

Quote: Andrey Peter

By the way, the first traitor in the ranks of the KGB leadership was V. Bakatin. which with the filing of a hunchback gave the US more than one secret. And the supervisor Kryuchkov V.A. by the way he died after a short illness. In general, the devil will break his leg all the same it all started in 1981-84.

Version:

[Goldmitro]

<<< Some (ideologists or simple performers) were later even awarded ... >>>
... the Nobel Prize (which is quite natural) and the Order of St. Andrew the First-Called (which is simply unnatural)!

[Yarosvet]

Quote: Goldmitro

and the Order of St. Andrew the First-Called (which is simply unnatural)!

On the contrary - it is very natural: there would be no these "some" - there would be no one to reward Andrey.

[Alfonso]

Quote: Motors1991

I can add my own five kopecks. For some reason, no one pays attention to the emergence of cooperatives if memory serves us in 1988. So, in those days, enterprises didn’t dare to use cash, say our ATP - five hundred cars, one thousand one hundred people working, but the chief accountant had the right to spend 10 (ten) rubles a month in cash, while at the same time, cooperatives, led entirely by Komsomol leaders, could turn millions of cash, and they threw these millions into buying up liquid goods, you can always put a couple of tens of thousands rubles and he will drive the trains wherever you say. By that time, by the way, planning had been pooped and the plan had ceased to be law. Enterprises were allowed to develop horizontal ties and here the Komsomol members with their cooperatives were very welcome. And there, by the way, again released prices and the party-Komsomol barefoot raped us in full.

The cooperatives were given the right to purchase raw materials at state prices, export products abroad, trade for foreign currency, the police were forbidden to control the foreign economic activity of the cooperatives. In 1989, 1990, cooperatives exported abroad THREE !!! made in the USSR.
M. Poltoranin writes about this in his book "Power in TNT Equivalent". The young bourgeois A. Tarasov, known for having paid a million rubles in party fees, boasted in the film "Golden Calves" that he bought several cars of aluminum ducklings at KAMAZ for 3 rubles and sold them with fat abroad as scrap aluminum. And so throughout the country. In the film "WESTERN" in an interview, a European says that they lived very well in the early 90s, when everything in Europe = everything was a lot and cheap, and then it got worse.

[zlyden2013]

Quote: My address

A. Volodin.
I completely agree with you. When my mother was with me, a friend from TORG (or what kind of snab, I don’t remember and don’t understand) during the deficit said that the warehouses were full, that they refused to supply, asked to be allowed to "throw" the surplus into stores, but did not give it.
I also know that the stores are empty and the refrigerators are full. Including those bought from a private trader. The hype, the people are waiting for further deterioration and are grabbing everything.

About other.
I suggest everyone to go over the comments of Volodin and Martha (Dude) and our writers instruct the pros. Raise them in ranks. For the cause.

agree