Military Review

Tupolev was able to build airplanes, and Stalin - Tupolev

175
Rudeness - the lot and the way of self-assertion of nonentities. For 25 years of freedom to reprove our past, they invented Stalin the nickname Sralin - and this exhausted all his creative reserves.


But anyone who bears the name of homo sapiens is not formal, Stalin is struck by the immensity of his nature and the gift of the greatest seer. All our weapon victories - from Molotov cocktails to Katyushas and fighters - were selected by him personally and turned out to be the most effective. It’s now, in hindsight, it’s easy to say that against the best tank The 2nd World T-34 huge five-tower "Tukhachevsky tank" - bullshit. But in the late 1930s, the choice between the front door, which caused pride for the country with its colossus and nonsense with just one gun, was terribly difficult. After all, something can be fixed later, when hundreds of factories are already tuned to one and not the other, it is impossible: the price of any mistake was death. And Stalin didn’t allow such a thing - unlike his current detractors, who had never hit the target!

In addition to the armory, he had the greatest instincts in the field of science and art. Tupolev, Korolev, Kapitsa, Kurchatov, Shostakovich, Bulgakov and dozens of other world-famous names are all his creatures. His work “Marxism and Questions of Linguistics” is still one of the best in its field; it is taught by philological students, although Stalin was never a philologist. But refuting the vulgar class theory of Academician Marr, dozez, according to his custom, to the bottom of the subject and made fundamental linguistic generalizations.

But perhaps the most long-term contribution of Stalin to our defense is the missile carrier Tu-95, which still threatens our opponents. The prehistory of the construction of this wonderful plane is as follows. When large-scale work on the creation of an atomic bomb began in 1945 in the USSR, Stalin immediately attended to the issue of its delivery. There are no bombs yet, she will appear with us only in 49, but his far-sighted eyes are already looking for what a plane should be to her.

After weighing and weighing everything, he calls Tupolev and sets him the task: to copy the American B-29, which was produced from 1943, and in 45, dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. At our disposal there were three such aircraft, with them, and it was necessary to blind their own. Tupolev, already recognized as the leader of the aircraft industry, who most could not bear to walk in a strange tail, was against it. A pier in the USSR is not adapted to American standards of production, and it is easier to build your original aircraft, which has already been designed. But Stalin is adamant: "So, it is necessary to create such production ..."

The replica plane, named Tu-4, went into the series as early as 47, and in the end Tupolev was forced to admit that Stalin was right. A huge work on modernization in two years led the aircraft industry of the post-war country to the most advanced world frontiers. But as it soon became clear, Stalin looked even further, and he needed the copying project only as a start to other, inconceivable then heights - which, by the way, today seem to be still inconceivable.

The Tu-4 had a range of 5,5 thousand km and, with the arms race started by the USA and the anti-Soviet NATO block they created in the 49, they could not fully protect us from their nuclear threat. And in 51, Stalin proposes that Tupolev create his own, unparalleled bomber ship with a flight range of 15 thousand km and a bomb load of 20 tons. For all his designer courage, Tupolev was stunned at first: this is unthinkable, this has not happened anywhere else! But Stalin pierces him with his muscular gaze: “Think, Comrade Tupolev. You are a good designer, the best in the USSR! And all that is needed for such an aircraft, the Soviet industry will provide you. "

And after two months, the plans of the super-airplane fall on Stalin's table - and then the incomprehensible mind of today's mind is going to follow. Already in 1952, the first Tu-95, an unprecedented, fundamentally new car with a revolutionary turboprop at that time, soars into the sky. Just to compare: our today's Superjet, in which there is nothing new, 6 was built for years, as many others were tested - and the world was amazed at the darkness of the money that was ditching it. And the Tu-95 was put into operation only 4 years after the bookmark - and already nearly 60 serves for years, it can deliver the largest nuclear charge to any part of the world, its lifespan is recognized as unlimited.

In 50, this “gift of Stalin to America” caused a shock in the States, where it was simultaneously built, in a completely different way, approximately equal to the jet bomber B-52. But then we were the most affected country in the recent war, and the USA was the most successful and prosperous country in it. And suddenly this grimy, burnt-down Russia almost gives such a breakthrough! Hatred of it to Stalin is shaking the States so far - and will apparently shake while this long-range bomber flies, killing all hope of our capture.

But almost even more shook America Khrushchev arrives there in 59-m on the civilian analogue of this tank Tu-114. For the giant plane, marveling at the crowds, there was not even an equal ladder - and our leader could look at this dumbfounded American for several extra minutes ...

I can also imagine what our pilots experienced in 52, who were flying yesterday to the plywood “La” and “corncobers”, at the sight of the deafening Tu-95, which is still taking aback right now. Surely it was a feeling of a real, huge miracle, participation in which even 30 years after Stalin's death forced the best sons of the nation to work wonders in military science, music, science. Today's power has killed this miracle-working in the root - the lifeless memory of which this non-wear aircraft remained.

... The great Tupolev was an extremely selfish, arrogant, self-contained person, which was his plus and minus. Such a character allowed him to break stereotypes and create brilliant cars: the world's first supersonic passenger Tu-144, the super-reliable Tu-134, the most popular Tu-154 in the USSR. And, of course, the most masterpiece - the Tu-95, which has not yet reached the ceiling for a screw machine for speed, reliability and economy. They stopped building it in 1992 — I suppose, not without pressure from the West that prevailed under Yeltsin. But this model, which was worked out and cheap in production, could be improved as we went, and we could still produce them now - just like in the USA, Boeing retirees are released. His cruise speed is like that of a Superjet, his payload is greater - if not even passenger, then the ideal cargo plane!

But this same stubborn Tupolev turned at the end of 50-x and a whole series of disasters of the world's first jet passenger Tu-104 - when he fell into a corkscrew from a height of 10 thousands of meters. Tupolev was asked to work on the construction, but he replied: “I’m never wrong, these are bad pilots.” The heroic pilot Harold Kuznetsov put the point in the fatal dispute: hitting a corkscrew and dictating the details of the fall before hitting the ground, proved that the rudder was insufficiently to blame. Only then did Tupolev admit his mistake and made a revision, after which the disasters stopped.

Working with such a hairy genius is not sugar, but Stalin was able to squeeze out of it for the benefit of the Motherland everything possible and impossible. For daring antics and embezzling public funds for his free ideas, Tupolev sat down in 37, but he got all the cards in his hands to construct in a "sharashka." And, a rare flint, not only did not put out its creative ardor during that landing, which it never offended, but also multiplied. After his release in 41, between two geniuses, organic skirmishes did not go out, but Stalin’s flint was always able to put into place Tupolev. And Tupolev, yielding to the one who saw beyond his artificial horizon, selflessly executed the Stalinist order, working on 25 hours a day - which was much more severe than any jail.

So all the Stalin descendants worked, having told Pasternak's words about their terrible, great and exciting years under Stalin: “On the blind chance of fate, I was fortunate enough to speak out completely, and what is the best in us — the artist — was not erased in my case and not trampled. "

Their harsh, but incredibly spiritualized life was close to real immortality, having happiness, already in the words of Mayakovsky, "dying, to embody in steamboats, in lines and in other long deeds".

Stalin owned the gift of the gift so to tune like Tupolev aces, that they were happy to break ground and do the most of what they could. But at the same time I left one incomprehensible, for me in any case, a riddle. How did he, with all his providence, fail to foresee the terrible cockroach battle of his companions after his death, which in the end wiped out everything he had erected? Why not attend to as reliable and unkillable as this Tu-95, the successor, who would not let him ruin his grand daring? Would you, like a merchant who devoured his securities with honey, carry everything to his grave with him? Do you imagine yourself immortal? Or, even more unlikely, relied on the saving communist chance? All this somehow does not fit in the head and does not fit in with his profile.

For all non-core assets, so to speak, he achieved complete success, recognized by even his most fiercest opponents like Churchill or Truman. Not being a techie, Tupolev set up to build the world's best airplanes; not being a musician, he brought out the music genius of Shostakovich. With the same brutal flair, he guessed future classics and Nobel laureates in Kapitsa, Sholokhov, Pasternak, Bulgakov, creating all the conditions for creativity for them ... And only in his direct cadre business he became so steadfast at the end of his life!

And I have only one guess about this. That this wagon as Leonardo da Vinci, not only a theorist, but also the strongest practitioner, grasped one terrible truth in his final: that there are simply no other equal to him. But the whole country has already managed to rely on his all-seeing eye, which, as can be seen from the archives, has corrected minor blunders on seeding turnips in Uzbekistan - and a huge nuclear project. And he, having taken upon himself such that he could not afford anyone else, simply waved his drained hand at the impossibility of repeating himself. Seeing this personnel deadlock, he did not even fight with him.

But in the end, we all became unwitting hostages of his exceptional nature. He, almost God for his contemporaries, and for others and more than God, with his success instilled in the whole nation a holy, infinite trust in the leader. And when further leaders were just not so absolute, this in-depth vaccine and killed us. All our protests of the last decades are a cry, appealing to the conscience of those simple men, fairly unscrupulous, who have taken the place of the genetically incorporated deity in us.

It is impossible to forget this genetics, as the first win at the races or roulette, leading then to the complete emptying of the pocket. To rise to his greatness, as to Christ, there is no power. And it remains only to insanely curse him or lift him up in hearts devoid of his own potency - which, incidentally, without this potency, is the same thing.

But even with all this, he, great and misunderstood, and now with this materially remaining plane from his fairy-tale era, as a kind of highly soaring shadow, protects us.
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http://roslyakov.ru/cntnt/verhneemen/noviepubli/tupolev_um.html
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  1. Denis
    Denis 16 December 2013 08: 06
    -7
    A copy aircraft, called the Tu-4, went into production in the 47, and Tupolev was eventually forced to admit Stalin was right
    However, Tupolev himself said that it was easier to construct a new
    everything is complicated
    1. vladimirZ
      vladimirZ 16 December 2013 08: 32
      44
      The great Stalin did a lot for the people and the country.
      Stalin brought Russia into one of two superpowers in the world. No dictator would do that. Stalin I.V. was not a dictator. He was a leader and beloved leader of the people. The people followed I.V. Stalin.
      He had little time to change the structure of power. Only 7 years after a deadly war.
      Stalin understood that it was necessary to change the structure of power. And he began a change of power. Stalin decided to transfer power from the party to the Soviets, leaving behind the party issues of ideology and cadres.
      But as soon as he began to carry out this work, the close associates of the 70-year-old Stalin, fearing to lose power, went against him.
      No wonder there is an opinion that Iosif Vissarionovich did not pass away himself, but he was "helped" by his "associates" Khrushchev and Campania.
      1. Zerstorer
        Zerstorer 16 December 2013 09: 55
        +1
        Well, maybe not Khrushchev ... But there really is a version that helped.
        1. Yarik
          Yarik 16 December 2013 13: 50
          +1
          Zerstorer Today, 09:55 ↑ New
          Well, maybe not Khrushchev ... But there really is a version that helped


          Alas, there is a whole bunch of interests intertwined. The main defendants are Lavrentiy and Khrushch. Stalin was a great man.
          1. DEfindER
            DEfindER 16 December 2013 17: 01
            10
            Quote: Yarik
            Alas, there is a whole bunch of interests intertwined. The main defendants are Lavrentiy and Khrushchev.

            Lavrenty was just the only successor to Stalin. But Khrushchev turned out to be trickier .. in the end, the Jester became King ..
            1. ValeraKrasovski
              ValeraKrasovski 22 December 2013 14: 42
              0
              Khrushchev was not only more cunning but also meaner than everyone. It was he who threw the Armed Forces back. It was under him that regression began in the navy, aviation, tank troops, and artillery. Almost all developments, with the exception of missiles, were frozen in the military-industrial complex. In the troops, only new models that entered service were destroyed. Only after the Gorbachev disaster did everything happen again. It was he who vilely avenged Stalin for the fact that the latter was a man in power, and not a scoundrel.
          2. pavlo
            pavlo 16 December 2013 21: 36
            +3
            Quote: makarov
            Roosevelt was not alive at that time. The Americans bombed the enemy territories, and the Ghoul destroyed its Russian


            There was nothing military in Dresden, just to frighten! You yourself are a ghoul !!!
            1. kenig1
              kenig1 17 December 2013 04: 24
              -12 qualifying.
              Roosevelt destroyed the Germans, and Stalin his. Ghoul!!! Feel the difference.
              1. CALL.
                CALL. 17 December 2013 18: 56
                0
                Bullshit Khrushchevtsev. Stalin did not destroy his own. Stalin destroyed the enemies of the USSR. At present, part of the story’s idiom, but mostly scum who are ready to disfigure history as they like for money, say that before the Second World War there were no spies in the USSR, no saboteurs, no saboteurs and repression of 1937-38. affected only the innocent. If you take this point of view, it turns out that intelligence services of all countries, from Britain and France in the west to Japan in the east, from Poland and Finland in the north to Turkey in the south, took money from their governments for the intelligence of the USSR, for the maintenance of subversive anti-Soviet organizations but they stole money and did not conduct any intelligence and subversive work in the USSR, that is, they lied to their governments. Could this be? Id_ sure you can. Let us doubt that the former comrades of the Bolsheviks — the Trotskyists — were sitting idle and were not going to return power to the USSR. After Trotsky’s expulsion from the country, his followers found themselves in a difficult situation: if Stalin now actually proves that his course towards building socialism in a single USSR is right, then the Trotskyists will be those who have fought against this course for almost 10 years, - albeit mistaken, but enemies of the people and revolution. It became vitally important for Trotskyists and Animals to remove Stalin and People from power. How to clean - everyone knows well. It is necessary to cause discontent among the population of the USSR with power and to overthrow it.
                On December 31, 1955, a meeting of the Presidium of the CPSU Central Committee was held, at which the question of repression and the “cult of personality” was discussed. And, unfortunately, few members of the Politburo had the courage not to throw a stone at the “dead lion”. The majority, obediently accepting the “new line of the party”, acted like the famous hero I. Krylov: “Why should I shy? And I kicked him: Let the donkey hooves know! ”
                A. Mikoyan, among other things, gives examples of how limits on arrests, approved personally by Stalin, were given in cities and republics. It’s a pity, just to confirm his words, he did not cite one note dated June 14, 1938: “Dear Joseph Vissarionovich! Ukraine monthly sends 17-18 thousand repressed, and Moscow claims no more than 2-3 thousand. I ask you to take urgent measures. ” But who was pushing for limits by complaining about the stinginess of the Kremlin? Let's see who the author of the note is: “N. Khrushchev, who loves you.”
                In 1954, the Minister of Internal Affairs of the USSR S.N. Kruglov provided Khrushchev with a report on the number of people executed and convicted under article 58 from 1923 to 1953. So, about 650 people were sentenced to death and about 000 were convicted. For 3 years. NTV voiced the same figures. Of course, and this is a lot. But these are not tens of millions. And of course, NTV kept silent that the favorites of the Democrats did their best, the creators of the thaw were the Khrushchevites.
              2. ValeraKrasovski
                ValeraKrasovski 22 December 2013 14: 50
                0
                Well, if for you their Vlasovites, executioners of Oberstandartenführer Komarovsky, independents UPA-UNSO, Lithuanian, Latvian and Estonian police battalions operating in Belarus from September 1941 to July 1944, as well as their fathers and other relatives, secretly and clearly acting on the territory of the USSR from 1920-191. then, yes, Stalin supported the organization of the struggle against anti-Soviet organizations. A person who is a little interested in history will never believe Goebels's followers.
        2. Denis
          Denis 16 December 2013 21: 25
          +3
          Quote: Zerstorer
          Well, maybe not Khrushchev ... But there really is a version that helped.

          It is unlikely that they are a bit sykly for that. Years, they are years. Here you get tired of dragging a hump on a hump, and only a country ...
        3. CALL.
          CALL. 17 December 2013 07: 59
          +1
          Perhaps we will never know who killed Stalin? But for a number of circumstantial evidence, we can outline the circle of suspects. These are Khrushchev, Malenkov and Ignatiev.
          Typically, historians believe that the struggle for power is conducted to occupy some high prestigious positions. If we look at those who jumped up after the death of Stalin, we will see that at Khrushchev, at first glance, the position did not increase very much. Before the death of Stalin, he was one of the ten secretaries of the Central Committee and he remained the same. In addition, Khrushchev was the first secretary of the Moscow City Committee of the CPSU, and after Stalin's death he was relieved of this post. Due to the fact that Khrushchev was left only one, the highest position - Secretary of the Central Committee, we can assume that he received a promotion. But then he becomes First Secretary of the CPSU Central Committee.
          Malenkov received a net promotion: from the Secretary of the Central Committee, from the position of one of the leaders of the party, he became chairman of the Council of Ministers - the head of the country.
          Beria slightly dropped his post due to dilution of the amount of his posts - he remained the deputy chairman of the Council of Ministers, but he was additionally given direct control by the combined MGB and Ministry of Internal Affairs.
          Ignatiev made a sharp jump. He jumped from the MGB ministers to the post of Secretary of the Central Committee, i.e. became one of the four leaders of the CPSU, ex officio became equal to Khrushchev and, in addition, he was assigned the party leadership of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, i.e. he became the party leader of Beria. (True, Beria sharply and decisively dropped him from this post a month later.) Beria understood who killed Stalin. Unfortunately, they understood that Beria was not, unfortunately, and they guessed what awaited them if Beria was not stopped.
          So, if we decide to ask ourselves who benefited from the death of Stalin, then Malenkov and Ignatiev follow the order of the career jump, and Khrushchev behind them. His lie to Stalin was perfectly justified, by which he wanted to justify himself in the eyes of accomplices and his meanness.
          1. CALL.
            CALL. 17 December 2013 17: 34
            0
            Khrushchev day February 28 (Saturday) to March 1 (Sunday) 1953 recalls this. - “And then somehow on Saturday they called from him so that we would come to the Kremlin. He personally invited me, Malenkov, Beria and Bulganin there. Arrived. He says: "Let's watch a movie." We looked. Then he says again: "Come, eat at the Near Country." And historians have found that from February 17, Stalin was not in the Kremlin and worked without departures in the Middle cottage.
            One of the guards of the dacha, P. Lozgachev, recalls this night as follows: “On the night of March 28, I was at the cottage - on duty ... Under Stalin, the senior attached Starostin, his assistant Tukov, me and Matrena Butusova were on duty. That night, there were supposed to be guests at the facility, as the Boss called the members of the Politburo who came to him. As usual, when guests came to the Boss, we worked out a menu with him. On the night of February XNUMX to March XNUMX, we had a menu: “Majari” grape juice ... This is a young grape wine, but the Master called it juice for a small fortress. And this night the Master called me and says: “Give us two bottles of juice ...”
            So, the arrival of the guests was not spontaneous - Stalin specially prepared for their reception, and did not shout, taking off his overcoat: "Give us what is left in the kitchen!" And further. When in 1952, the long-term chief of the Stalin’s security was replaced by Lieutenant General N.S. Vlasik then other officials were replaced. To the post of commandant of the Kremlin, Stalin appointed one of his bodyguards, whom, apparently, he especially trusted, Major General Kosynkin. So, the young man, Major General Kosynkin, “died prematurely” just on February 17, if you remember, it was from that day that Stalin no longer went to the Kremlin and remained in the country.
            The same P. Lozgachev continues. “And when the owner of the guests escorted, the attached one also escorted - he closed the doors behind them. And the attached Khrustalev Ivan Vasilievich closed the doors and saw the Boss, and he said to him: - “Go to bed. I need nothing. And I also go to bed. I don’t need you today. ” And Khrustalev came and happily says: “Well, guys, there has never been such an order ...” And he gave us the words of the Boss ... - Here Lozgachev added: - And the truth, for all the time that I worked, this was the only time the Boss said: "Go to bed ...". Usually ask: "Do you want to sleep?" - and drill you eyes from head to toe. Well, what a dream there is! .. We were, of course, very pleased to receive such an order, and boldly went to bed. ”
            You don’t even know how to relate to this. Sleeping on duty is a war crime. Allowing to sleep on a post is allowing to commit crimes. Stalin could not give such a command!
            (By the way, the bodyguard of Stalin Khrustalev, whom Stalin allegedly gave the command to "sleep", soon after the death of Stalin also "died untimely", saving historians (or investigators?) From unnecessary questioning. And, not only the bodyguard of Stalin Khrustalev did not live very long after him death, “committed suicide” two more guards on duty that night). So, it turns out that after dinner on the night of February 28 to March 1, Beria first appeared at Stalin's dacha only around 9.00:2 on March XNUMX, together with the doctors. But Khrushchev and, according to him, Malenkov had already been there twice before! And in the presence of a third party, they managed to intimidate and instruct the guards how to slander Beria and the rest.
            1. CALL.
              CALL. 17 December 2013 17: 39
              0
              Academician, therapist, specialist in cardiovascular diseases A.L. Butcher died in 1965, left his memories of those tragic days. He wrote: -
              “Late in the evening of March 2, 1953, an employee of the special department of the Kremlin hospital drove into our apartment:“ I am behind you - to the sick Boss. ” I quickly said goodbye to my wife, we stopped on Kalinin Street, where prof. N.V. Konovalov (neuropathologist) and E.M. Gareev, and rushed to the cottage of Stalin in Kuntsevo ...
              Finally we are in the house (a vast pavilion with spacious rooms furnished with wide ottomans; the walls are finished with polished plywood). In one of the rooms was already the Minister of Health ...
              The minister said that on the night of March 3, Stalin had a brain hemorrhage, with loss of consciousness, speech, paralysis of his right arm and leg. Yesterday, until late at night, Stalin, as usual, worked in his office. The security officer on duty at 2 o’clock in the morning saw him at the table (he looked into the keyhole). All the time and further the light was on, but it was so instituted. Stalin was sleeping in another room, in the study was a sofa on which he often rested. In the morning at seven o’clock the guard again looked into the keyhole and saw Stalin spread out on the floor between the table and the sofa. He was unconscious. They put the patient on the sofa, on which he lay for the rest of his life. ”As you see, firstly, the guard postponed the time of the stroke on the morning of March 1. Since she called, even according to her, from the evening of March 1977, and twice saw Malenkov and Khrushchev at the dacha, she, of course, could not lie like that without them. That is, from the very beginning Khrushchev and Stalin's bodyguards were in conspiracy, that's why they “oust” Khrushchev in their testimonies, exposing Beria instead, since in XNUMX Beria was already a world monster, everything could be blamed on him.
              Secondly, it turns out that the guard was not completely helpless and could watch Stalin through the keyhole.
              Thirdly. It is completely unclear where they still found Stalin. According to the bodyguards - in the small dining room, according to Khrushchev - in the large, according to the original version - in the office by the sofa.
              1. CALL.
                CALL. 17 December 2013 17: 45
                0
                The third suspect: - Ignatiev is the purest party and hardware nomenclature, such as Yezhov, he made his career only along the party line. Ignatiev was the Minister of the MGB from August 1951 to March 1953. He was a very weak minister. And it should be said that on the part of the party and on the side of the government of the MGB, Khrushchev and Malenkov oversaw, i.e. Ignatiev depended on them, perhaps he was appointed to this position on their recommendation. And here is the one who supplied the conspirators with poison. This is S.I. Ogoltsov, who made a career in Leningrad under A. Kuznetsov during the war, was Lieutenant General, First Deputy Minister of State Security under Minister Abakumov, and then under Ignatiev. It was he who personally supervised both Laboratory-X and special operations with the use of poisons; it was he who led all the reporting documentation on poisons. Sudoplatov writes:
                “Reports on the Elimination of Undesirable Persons to the Government in 1946-1951 compiled by Ogoltsov as a senior official traveling to the venue and Savchenko, the Minister of State Security of Ukraine. They were stored in a special sealed bag. After each operation, the seal was opened, a new handwritten report was added, and the packet was resealed. There was a stamp on the package: “Do not open without the permission of the minister. Ogoltsov. " Sudoplatov repeatedly emphasizes that Khrushchev for some reason was very afraid of any connection between his name and the poisons of Laboratory X, although it would seem that he did not decide on the execution in this way - he only passed the order to the executioner.
                Everyone knows that Beria, having headed the joint Ministry of Internal Affairs-MGB, did a great job of reviewing the affairs of the employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and released many from custody. Question: did he just release them and arrest no one? Arrested. Guess three times - who? That's right - Ogoltsova. Now guess who Khrushchev first released as soon as Beria was killed? That's right - Ogoltsova.
                For more details see Yu. Mukhin "The Murder of Stalin and Beria"
      2. velikoros-xnumx
        velikoros-xnumx 16 December 2013 12: 35
        0
        How did he, for all his providence, not see the terrible cockroach fight of his companions after his death, which ultimately brought to nothing all that he had erected? Why didn’t he care about the successor as reliable and indestructible as this Tu-95

        Quote: vladimirZ
        Stalin decided to transfer power from the party to the Soviets, leaving behind the party issues of ideology and cadres.

        There is an opinion that just for this Mikhail Suslov was preparing to succeed, but as correctly noted, he did not manage to complete the planned changes in the management structure to the end.
      3. APES
        APES 16 December 2013 13: 48
        12
        Quote: vladimirZ
        No wonder there is an opinion that Joseph Vissarionovich


        said:

        "first they will curse me, and then erect a monument"

        and also respect him, for his first toast in honor of the Victory (there is also an opinion that this was so):

        "I drink to the Great Russian People - the Victorious People"
        1. kenig1
          kenig1 17 December 2013 04: 25
          -5
          Saying and doing two different things.
      4. The comment was deleted.
      5. Cherdak
        Cherdak 16 December 2013 15: 46
        +2
        Quote: D
        five-tower "Tukhachevsky tank"


        Yeah, this is something with something ... T-35. Weighed 54 tons, had 5 towers, 3 guns, 4 machine guns, 11 crew members. And such monstrous fools riveted as many as 61 pieces
        1. valerei
          valerei 17 December 2013 00: 24
          +4
          Cherdak, yes, riveted. But at that time, tank troops were a completely new branch of the army and no one really knew how to use them correctly. Tanks appeared at the end of World War I, did not play a decisive role in battles, and the war was already over. Multi-turret tanks were built in almost all "tank" states, respectively, and the USSR tried to keep up. One of the greatest tank theorists - Guderian did not immediately come to the concept of a single-turret tank, although he was more concerned with the combat use of a new type of troops. It is now, after a large number of wars with the use of tanks, the basic concept "settled", but then everything was just beginning and the tanks were built under the order of the military. We ordered a military breakthrough tank and received not an IS-1, but a T-2. Everything has its time.
        2. Denis
          Denis 17 December 2013 12: 54
          0
          Quote: Cherdak
          Yeah, this is something with something ...
          I will use a silly word, but as if the fashion was then. Not only in the USSR did they sin, everyone tried to increase the firepower by the number of towers
          and the T-28, too, with more than one tower, was not bad for its time
          This is Vickers 16-ton
      6. leks
        leks 16 December 2013 16: 46
        +8
        I read a lot about Comrade Stalin, I honestly admit there was a negative attitude towards him, which Collectivization cost in 30 years, but looking at that time and thinking what had to be done differently, you understand that if he hadn’t done this, the USSR would have entered the war practically with forks and braids industrialization was needed.
        Read the book The Privy Councilor of the Leader will learn a lot of new things, I learned from an interesting book that I.V. Stalin was an opponent of creating people's republics.
        Comrade Stalin, a great figure, he left a big mark in history, many will be forgotten, but he will be remembered in the same way as Ivan the Terrible.
    2. avt
      avt 16 December 2013 10: 29
      12
      Quote: Denis
      However, Tupolev himself said that it was easier to construct a new

      Normal resentment is human. However, the construction of the analogue gave a huge leap mainly not in the design school, but in the production base of the aircraft industry. Everything can be invented and drawn, but who and how will do it. In his youth, he thought like Tupolev, but after working, he understood the whole scope of the task and the correctness of the decision made by Stalin. Without it, the Tu-95 would take off in ten years.
      1. Denis
        Denis 17 December 2013 13: 01
        0
        Quote: avt
        Normal resentment human
        It’s all more complicated than that, they state it this way and that. We will only know the truth in the next world, if there is one
    3. wax
      wax 16 December 2013 11: 58
      +6
      However, Stalin was right, for a completely new aircraft industry was quickly created under the American copy, which then quickly mastered the completely new TU-95. Tupolev is the genius of aviation, Stalin is the universal genius of the organization.
    4. Rus2012
      Rus2012 16 December 2013 14: 50
      +3
      Quote: Denis
      Tupolev was eventually forced to admit Stalin was right

      ... the fact is that when copying the B-29, the Soviet aircraft industry was forced to master a new one and step onto another generation, the following, which was what it was:
      - new materials (for example, ceramic coating of turbocharger blades of a turbocharger of a piston engine), air conditioning systems, radio communications, navigation, new sciences - in control systems, energy generation, design ... and so on and so on ...
      Already on this new plane, much was not required during the creation of the Tu-95, the industry, mastered technologies have already allowed. Before the Tu-95 was the previous model - Tu-85, on piston engines ...

      By the way, although the Tu-4 was copied from the B-29, there were nonetheless significant differences:
      - the engines were of domestic development,
      - airborne weapons
      - rescue system (parachutes under booty :)
      - The bomb bay is also under our bomb designs.
      Even the radio communication equipment on the Tu-4 turned out better and newer than the source on the B-29. Because the Tu-4 has already been equipped with a new radio set copied from the equipment of the Mitchell B-25 bomber, from the last lend-lease deliveries. It already had the next generation radio equipment than the B-29.

      But what gave this copying for life - photoapparty FED :)))
      This is a separate story, similar to a humorous joke. In short, on one of the copies. B-29 found a household camera (I don't remember the model). For a long time they did not know what to do with this, but ANT said - "Comrade Stalin ordered to copy everything!" After that FA "FED" went to the people ...
      1. Taoist
        Taoist 16 December 2013 15: 16
        +5
        About FED is a legend. FED is a "watering can", and it went into the series even before the war.

        "At first, the camera was manually assembled by inmates of the Dzerzhinsky children's labor colony. Hence the name of the FED apparatus, which stands for Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky. Its serial production was started in 1934. The camera was constantly being improved, 18 thousand copies rolled off the assembly line per month." (from)
        1. builder74
          builder74 17 December 2013 04: 39
          +2
          Photographed them in the 80s.
      2. Landwarrior
        Landwarrior 17 December 2013 08: 04
        0
        Quote: Rus2012
        In short, on one of the copies. B-29 found a household camera (I don't remember the model). For a long time they did not know what to do with this, but ANT said - "Comrade Stalin ordered to copy everything!" After that FA "FED" went to the people ...

        Yeah, I heard this story. This is from a bomb carrier, which went into an emergency in 1945, after the Japanese had patted it, it hung on the chair of a navigator laughing
        Only not FED, but "Sharp" wink And then he went to all 4 Carcasses laughing
    5. Taoist
      Taoist 16 December 2013 15: 13
      +4
      The problem is not to build a new one, the problem is to modernize the industry. The technological chains created and mastered as a result of copying allowed us to create and build our own developments in huge series in the future. And then we had enough projects and experimental machines - but the production capabilities were far behind.
    6. Cherdak
      Cherdak 16 December 2013 15: 50
      +4
      Quote: with
      For impudent tricks and embezzlement of public funds for his free ideas, Tupolev crouched in the 37th - but received all the cards in his hands to design in a "sharashka".


      It would not hurt now to pass many flagships of the military-industrial complex through such a "cleansing shower" - and the Bulava would fall no more than once, planes after repairs would not immediately fight, and space was mastered faster.
    7. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 16 December 2013 18: 22
      +7
      The author of the article is right, insofar as Stalin FORCED A.N.T. work in a new way, and the entire aviation industry. A plaza-template method has been developed (read for yourself what it is ..., but the structural elements have become interchangeable, and it became possible to accumulate a "reserve" of parts during the production of the airframe and use them as a series of "products" is manufactured. VM Molotov flew to the States, something about 8 pieces were produced, and Tu-80 4. At the Tupolevs produced in the 847s and the first half of the 30s, the aircraft body parts were "knocked out" as in the carriage workshops of the 40th century The R-807 (RSB-70) radio station, an exact copy of the American one (model 1942), had TEN tuned channels (I personally drove 2 copies for repairs to Khabarovsk to the "Bolshoi airfield".
      Conclusion: correctly I.V. Stalin set the task of A.N.T.! Just like a naughty kitten he pointed to the right path of development!
      Quote: Denis
      However, Tupolev himself said that it was easier to construct a new

      It is possible to design a new one, but not at public expense! Here is a quote: "As of May 10, 1945, there were 32 Pe-8 (18 serviceable)." Taken from http://www.airaces.ru/plane/voennye-samoljoty-sssr/tb-7-pe-8.html
      Here is the reliability level of Tupolev cars!
      1. alone
        alone 16 December 2013 19: 57
        +7
        Stalin turned out to be the only normal thinking leader of the USSR. The rest were insignificant in comparison with him. But Khrushchev wasn’t even worth talking about Gorbatov. Two boots, one pair.

        Stalin also had mistakes. In this situation, there could be no mistakes. He is especially strong in strengthening statehood and its defense capability.
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 16 December 2013 20: 41
          +6
          Quote: lonely
          Stalin also had mistakes. In this situation, there could be no mistakes. He is especially strong in strengthening statehood and its defense capability.

          He who doesn’t do a damn thing is not mistaken ... (axiom)
          I strongly suspect that I.V. Stalin, while still working in the personnel management system, was thinking about those with whom he intended to work. About the criteria that the party members chosen by him must meet. A team of loyal associates was (and should be) with everyone who intends to conquer the pinnacle of power.
      2. aviator65
        aviator65 16 December 2013 22: 32
        +2
        In fact, the Pe-8 was generally a decent machine for its time. He had a lot, as they say now, innovations. But engines remained his sore spot throughout his life. The power plant of 5 (at first) engines, including the supercharger drive, did not add to the reliability. And the leapfrog itself with the engines: they put a diesel engine, then Shvetsov's "stars", then Mikulinsky ...
  2. makarov
    makarov 16 December 2013 08: 13
    -84 qualifying.
    The fact that Stalin was a person, I do not deny. The cannibal Mugabe, and Pol Pot, Ian Sari, and Enver Hodge and others were similar.
    But this does not in any way relieve Stalin of responsibility in the deaths of millions of innocent people whose bones are scattered in the vast expanses of the North ... tens of millions of Soviet families fell victim to the reign of Ghouls.
    The author certainly has the right to express his point of view in relation to certain historical personalities ... but this is just his point of view, and no more ..
    P.S. perhaps the author’s position is shared by some readers, thank God that I don’t belong to her.
    1. krasin
      krasin 16 December 2013 08: 58
      23
      KGB data: from 1930 to 1953, that is, for 23 years, 786 098 people were sentenced to death for counter-revolutionary activity. Moreover, 681 692 people were convicted in 1937-1938. That is, more than 80% of convicts were sentenced in only 2 years.

      The axiom is that we still live on the basis created by Stalin. Industrial, defense, scientific ...

      And what are we dissatisfied with ??????? belay
      1. 10kAzAk01
        10kAzAk01 16 December 2013 09: 57
        15
        And what are we dissatisfied with ???????

        under Roosevelt, in two days in Japan, the Americans destroyed 250 tons of people, and during the bombing of Dresden 135 tons of people .... even no one calls him WHAT ...
        1. makarov
          makarov 16 December 2013 12: 40
          -24 qualifying.
          Roosevelt was not alive at that time. The Americans bombed the enemy territories, and the Ghoul destroyed its Russian
          1. ImPerts
            ImPerts 16 December 2013 13: 03
            15
            Quote: makarov
            Roosevelt was not alive at that time. The Americans bombed enemy territories,

            Great American Famine
            In American history, there is a fact of a crime against one’s own people - this is the so-called Holodomor of the 1932 / 33 of the year, as a result of which the United States missed millions of its citizens ...
            ... Firstly, according to American statistics, over the decade from 1931 to 1940, the United States lost as many 8 millions of 553 thousands of people in terms of population growth dynamics. Moreover, the population growth indicators change immediately, simultaneously, two (!) Times exactly at the turn of the 1930 / 31 year, they fall and freeze at this level for exactly ten years. And just as unexpectedly, a decade later, they return to their previous values. There is no explanation for this in the extensive, in hundreds of pages, text of the US Department of Commerce's American report, Statistical Abstract of the United States, although it is filled with explanations on other issues that are not worthy of even mentioning ...
            ... In total, 8,5 million people passed through the American GULAG of public works - this is not counting the prisoners themselves ...
            ... Here are the child's true memories of these years: "We replaced our usual favorite food with a more accessible one ... instead of cabbage we used the leaves of shrubs, ate frogs ... within a month my mother and older sister died ..." ( Jack Griffin) ...
            http://topwar.ru/35790-velikiy-amerikanskiy-golodomor.html
            IMHO !!! Life and problems were the same everywhere ...
            1. Babon
              Babon 16 December 2013 13: 06
              15
              They called it Defarming, and they like to display photographs of hungry American farmers as photographs from Ukraine.
            2. makarov
              makarov 16 December 2013 14: 31
              -18 qualifying.
              at the time of grandfather Brezhnev, and this is the "golden time of socialism" around 1975, there were more than 3,5 million "home front workers" in the camps, and this was when all the social benefits were available to the workers.
              During Stalin's time, there was a Labor Army with forced labor for citizens of the USSR on an ethnic basis. Criminal liability for violation of the commandant's regime came from the age of 16. And there were many other "feats" that the murder regime had.
              I’m looking at the results, many advocate for Ghouls, I see your grandparents didn’t shoot, they didn’t rot in the camps for three spikelets, or I’m mistaken and it’s the children and granddaughters of the Stalinist VOHRA crawled out ..
              1. Babon
                Babon 16 December 2013 15: 17
                +5
                Here they dispossessed my grandfather's family and my grandmother's family because they did not want to give their farm to the collective farm. There was a period called "individual farmers", but for some reason they didn't rot anyone, they had to start living anew, and they went to get a job in the same collective farms, and then over the years (after the war), they allowed to start their own farm again.
              2. 11111mail.ru
                11111mail.ru 16 December 2013 19: 18
                11
                Quote: makarov
                and this is the children and granddaughters of the Stalinist MOX crawled out ..

                Of the 3 brothers of the grandfather who went to the front: ANDREY 1942. - near Leningrad; ALEXANDER 1943 - near Kursk; Ivan (younger) in 1942 near Kharkov was captured. He returned home in late 1946. Grandfather was called up to the labor front at the age of 52 in October 1942. He returned home in the fall of 1946. Grandmother with two older daughters and a son born in 1938 worked on a collective farm. Father was drafted into the Red Army in 1939 until 1942. He served in the KDVO, Barabash fortified area, then since 1944. at the front. He returned home in 1953. The MAGAZINE, you say? You are mistaken, rebuke, these are defenders of the Motherland!
              3. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker 16 December 2013 20: 46
                +9
                Quote: makarov
                I’m looking at the results, many advocate for Ghouls, I see your grandparents didn’t shoot, they didn’t rot in the camps for three spikelets, or I’m mistaken and it’s the children and granddaughters of the Stalinist VOHRA crawled out ..

                THIS "Stalinist VOKHRA" cleared the western Ukraine, Belarus and the Baltic states from Bandera abomination, as well as from AKovtsy. Looks like I didn't clean it up.
                And today, only NEDUMS can put on one board the NKVD, SS and executioners from the UPA-OUN-UNSO.
                1. General Frost
                  General Frost 17 December 2013 07: 52
                  +2
                  One trouble = (Poorly cleaned these guardians of world values ​​to the liberators who shot in the back, it was better to do it, it was better (to clean up).
              4. Snoop
                Snoop 17 December 2013 07: 09
                +2
                Announce the entire list, please, shot for three spikelets?
                Again about decree 7/8. It was directed against embezzlement on an especially large scale in transport, and the theft on an especially large scale of collective and cooperative property was equated. The fact that some of the judges on the ground had a nonsense, yes it was. But basically, such sentences were overturned by the relevant courts. And basically people were not brought under execution, but for 10 years in prison. And the first wave of rehabilitation was just the same Stalinist, they were reviewing cases by decree 7/8.
              5. CALL.
                CALL. 17 December 2013 19: 27
                +1
                I also forgot to add that for 20 minutes late for work they gave me a term of 15 years, I recently heard in a movie.
                "To establish that for absenteeism without good reason, workers and employees of state, cooperative and public enterprises and institutions are brought to court and, by the verdict of the people's court, are punished with corrective labor at the place of work for up to 6 months with deduction from wages of up to 25%." (Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR of June 26, 1940).
                “Along with isolation bodies, the Gulag system included the so-called“ Bureau of Correctional Work ”(BIRs), whose task was not to isolate convicts, but to enforce court decisions in respect of persons sentenced to serve forced labor without incarceration. In March 1940, there were 312 people registered with the GULAG BIRs who were sentenced to corrective labor without imprisonment. Of these, 800% worked at the place of their main job, and 97,3% worked in other places as designated by the NKVD.
                A few months later, the number of this category of convicts increased sharply, which was a consequence of the Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR of June 26, 1940 “On the transition to an eight-hour working day, a seven-day working week and the prohibition of unauthorized withdrawal of workers and employees from enterprises and institutions”, introduced criminal liability for unauthorized departure from enterprises and institutions, for absenteeism and being late for work for 21 minutes or more. Most of these “signs” were sentenced to forced labor at the place of primary work for up to six months and withholding from wages up to 25%.
                By the beginning of World War II, the GULAG BIRs were registered with 1 thousand people sentenced to forced labor without imprisonment. Among them, those convicted under the Decree of June 264, 26 constituted the vast majority. ”
                Here is how V. Almazov wrote about this: - “... I myself had two convictions under this decree, about which there are corresponding entries in the work book ... The war ended. Life has become easier. And I began to celebrate pay booze. But the boys where there is a drink, there are adventures. In general, for two delays - 25 and 30 minutes escaped with reprimands. And when I was late for an hour and a half, I received 3-15: from me for 3 months 15% of earnings were calculated. Just paid - hit again. Now at 4-20. Well, the third time I would have been punished by 6-25. But "this cup has passed me." I understood that work is a sacred thing. Of course, then it seemed to me that the punishments were too strict - after all, the war had already ended. But the older comrades consoled me with the fact that, they say, the capitalists have discipline even stricter and punishments worse: just a little - dismissal. And stand in line at the labor exchange. And when the turn comes to get a job again - it is not known ... And the cases when a person received a prison term for absenteeism are unknown to me. I heard that for "unauthorized withdrawal from production" you can get a year and a half of prison. But I don’t know any such fact. ”
            3. leks
              leks 16 December 2013 17: 04
              -13 qualifying.
              And you read about collectivization in the 30s in the USSR and what kind of victims we had or about the famine in the 20s in those years a lot of people died of starvation thanks to the progressive policy of the Bolsheviks !!!!
              1. aviator65
                aviator65 16 December 2013 22: 38
                +3
                Who do you propose to read? Specify the authors, please.
              2. CALL.
                CALL. 17 December 2013 19: 55
                +1
                One of the Ukrainian online magazines published an excellent work by Professor M. Tauger of the University of West Virginia, which does not leave a stone unturned by the Nazi myth of the 1932-1933 “famine” inspired by the authorities. http://you1917-91.narod.ru/tauger.html
                There is also a video http://kiwi.kz/watch/zko3dx7hghxo/
          2. Babon
            Babon 16 December 2013 13: 05
            +3
            Here in the West, and in the East there were many tyrannical rulers and they ruined many lives, there are even more Stalin, and somehow they idolize them for achievements in front of the country.
          3. Neil
            Neil 16 December 2013 22: 40
            +9
            "Dear" Makarov, one should not talk about great people, Ghoul, you are not good enough to talk about Stalin like that, I'm sorry for those history teachers who spent their precious time on you
        2. marmuzan
          marmuzan 16 December 2013 18: 37
          +8
          10kAzAk01 Under Roosevelt, for several bombardments of Tokyo in Japan, the Americans destroyed about 200 tons of people, this is a fact. Mostly people were burned, the Americans actively used napalm.
          During the bombing of Dresden during the week there were five raids, the Anglo-Saxons (2/3 of the British aircraft) actively used napalm.
          About various German estimates, from 100 to 300 tons died.
          There were no military units in the city.
          If possible, take a trip to Dresden.
      2. cdrt
        cdrt 16 December 2013 13: 59
        -3
        Quote: krasin
        KGB data: from 1930 to 1953, that is, for 23 years, 786 098 people were sentenced to death for counter-revolutionary activity. Moreover, 681 692 people were convicted in 1937-1938. That is, more than 80% of convicts were sentenced in only 2 years.

        The axiom is that we still live on the basis created by Stalin. Industrial, defense, scientific ...

        And what are we dissatisfied with ??????? belay


        The question is - how many died in the camps (including from illnesses), immediately after leaving them?
        How many died (apparently there is only demographic data) in collectivization, from the hunger caused by it?
        In total, a few million will be, moreover (if we take dekulakization as a model) of the best people, the most working, enterprising.

        Repression itself affected all types of elites (including engineering, scientific, etc.).
        It is clear that they survived only the most tenacious (which is not related to professional qualities), with the most flexible spine and a thin scent.
        As an example, we can recall a bacchanalia with Academician Vavilov and the squalor that replaced him (Lysenko).
        You can recall cybernetics (this is already close to me, one of my teachers at the institute was the founder of our cybernetics - I sat for it, then I received awards for it).

        So ... perhaps they are dissatisfied not just with the basis created under Stalin, but with the fact that several million innocents in most of their lives took its creation.
        I’m not writing about the repressed now, half of them definitely had something to go under for execution, at least for the very participation in the revolution and the Civil on the side of the Bolsheviks (it was well shown in a recent film about Tukhachevsky - he was interrogated and tortured by an investigator whose entire relatives died in the Tambov uprising), but rather about simple working peasants, simple camp prisoners who fell in large numbers on denunciations of neighbors and colleagues.
        1. Petrik66
          Petrik66 16 December 2013 15: 23
          +2
          and the source is artistic nonsense taken from the "Moscow News" edition of 1989?
        2. ImPerts
          ImPerts 17 December 2013 05: 17
          +3
          ... So, to summarize - for the entire period of Stalin’s reign the number of prisoners at the same time in prison never exceeded 2 million 760 thousand (Naturally, not counting German, Japanese and other prisoners of war). Thus, there can be no question of any “tens of millions of prisoners of the Gulag” ...
          ... However, even in the most difficult 1942 and 1943 years, the death rate of prisoners was about 20% per year in camps and about 10% per year in prisons, and not 10% per month, as claimed, for example, A. Solzhenitsyn. To the beginning of 50's in camps and colonies, it fell below 1% per year, and in prisons - below 0,5%.
      3. CALL.
        CALL. 17 December 2013 19: 09
        0
        Somewhat inflated data. Where are taken from. Can I have a source?
    2. askort154
      askort154 16 December 2013 09: 15
      11
      makarov ... But this does not in any way relieve Stalin of responsibility in the deaths of millions of innocent people whose bones are scattered in the vast expanses of the North ... tens of millions of Soviet families fell victim to the reign of Ghouls.

      Everything is relative. Under Stalin, several million were imprisoned, the rest lived
      behind the plywood door. Under Yeltsin, the whole country was seated behind iron doors and bars on the windows, where it is still located. It is possible to evaluate Stalin differently, depending on who the judges are and from what angle they want to see him. The West sees in Stalin only
      usurper, and imposes it on new generations. For me, in short, there would be no Stalin, there would be no USSR.
      1. Shadowcat
        Shadowcat 16 December 2013 10: 31
        +9
        I want to correct you about
        Quote: askort154
        several million were in jail


        The maximum number was in 1950 - 2.760.095.
        But I want to remind you that 5 years ago the most difficult war ended and it was necessary to raise not only the native country, but also very "grateful" neighbors. Plus let's add here those who are now accustomed to call terrorists. Plus those who disagree who have seized upon weapons. Plus cowards, deserters, Vlasovites and other nits. Also, in difficult years, crime increases. Here is the result - a growing figure.
        1. askort154
          askort154 16 December 2013 12: 35
          +1
          ShadowCat ... The maximum number was in 1950 - 2.760.095.


          Thanks for the specifics. Everything is correct. Just my generalized - "several million" (total), implies -
          the ratio to 145 million people in Russia at the time of Yeltsin’s arrival, when the installation of grilles on windows and iron doors began, that is, the whole country sits behind bars. The question is, what is better? ... Each has its own answer.
          1. aviator65
            aviator65 16 December 2013 22: 44
            0
            For me, for the rest of my life, the beginning of the 90s will be associated with ubiquitous window grilles and more. True, and how did we live behind plywood doors before that?
    3. makarov
      makarov 16 December 2013 09: 42
      -24 qualifying.
      P.P.S.
      Pillars went to our hut
      freedom, equality and fraternity;
      everything the slaves worked
      always works for slavery.
      И.Г.
      1. Proud.
        Proud. 16 December 2013 11: 06
        13
        Quote: makarov
        everything the slaves worked
        always works for slavery.
        A small paraphrase from a poem by V. Kozubov: "... It is outwardly difficult to distinguish people affected by the virus of anger ... If it is not ours, it will fill with blood: From now on, you are his enemy! With these words he will respond: Repression, prisons, barracks, GULAG ... "and this, L. Kornilov. is also from the modern: You see, Stalin did not die,
        It just ended the smelting of steel.
        Times rolled up different
        And in power - non-ferrous metals.
        The insole is soft, malleable soft-boiled, -
        Any betrayal for a bribe.
        True, they can, as soon as they cool,
        Useful for a bullet in the back of the head.

        You still are not tired of getting
        From non-ferrous metals to navara?
        You see, Stalin did not die,
        Steelworkers just ran out.

        Life is tempered by death
        In the clear fire of rebellion.
        Who rings copper there?
        Steel! Steel! Steel!

        Are we not Russians, or bears?
        And our fangs, or something, of copper?
        And under the arcs of our backs
        Bell of pocket coppers.
        Rubber Stab
        It is unlikely that steel has lost hardening.
        You know, we're just tired
        From colored ... And we yearn for steel.

        In chain mail steel growing breasts,
        Ross latami Russia latali.
        People die for non-ferrous metal,
        Only those in whom not a gram of steel.

        Life is tempered by death
        In the clear fire of rebellion.
        Who rings copper there?
        Steel!
        Steel!
        Steel!
      2. wax
        wax 16 December 2013 12: 10
        0
        everything the slaves worked
        always working for slavery

        Interesting. It is clearly visible on the fate of an independent Ukraine after it gained independence.
      3. Sirs
        Sirs 16 December 2013 15: 01
        0
        Here is the fact - Stalin did not take loans from the United States for the restoration of the country (this is +), and minus these are big sacrifices of the people for the restoration of the country.
        If they had taken loans, there would have been no aviation industry, Soviet (Russian) space, or a developed military-industrial complex. etc. etc.
        And the USSR did not fall into bondage to the capitalists.
        After all, Europe is still paying off these loans one way or another (meaning any agreements).
    4. complete zero
      complete zero 16 December 2013 10: 03
      -5
      Yes, a tyrant and despot of millions of ruined lives, but at the same time Stalin was building an economy (unlike Lenin who destroyed it), albeit an ugly one based on slave labor, but tell me who could have built it at that time? when the best minds either emigrated or were destroyed? -who remained illiterate peasants and no one else! Personality cannot be assessed unambiguously, otherwise then the settlers of the "wild west" building railways are completely murderers (who destroyed the buffalo and thus the indigenous population of the states) ... well, and Peter the first, who built Russia on bones? .. PS, I'm not a Stalinist, but one must really look at and evaluate such a person in history.
      1. Proud.
        Proud. 16 December 2013 11: 23
        +3
        Quote: complete zero
        but at the same time, Stalin built an economy (unlike the Lenin who destroyed it), albeit the ugly one based on slave labor
        It's strange ... The very course of history, as well as all sorts of ideologists and theorists (on practical examples) proved that slave labor is not effective. While, on the example of the first five-year plans or the example of the Renaissance after the War, everything was built. If it is very bad, "on oh ... b ", then why is it still functioning? Or (I am inclined to this, or rather already inclined) was this work free?
        1. complete zero
          complete zero 16 December 2013 11: 42
          +1
          "we will build our new world" (I forgot to clarify that ideology was at the forefront - a terrible (in a good sense of the word) power from here and such breakthroughs are not explainable from the point of view of logic (and this is also not a small merit of Stalin) - I do not know why they minus me here))) The only thing I said was that Stalin was a person, not an ordinary person, but a person.
        2. cdrt
          cdrt 16 December 2013 14: 07
          -10 qualifying.
          Quote: Be proud.
          Quote: complete zero
          but at the same time, Stalin built an economy (unlike the Lenin who destroyed it), albeit the ugly one based on slave labor
          It's strange ... The very course of history, as well as all sorts of ideologists and theorists (on practical examples) proved that slave labor is not effective. While, on the example of the first five-year plans or the example of the Renaissance after the War, everything was built. If it is very bad, "on oh ... b ", then why is it still functioning? Or (I am inclined to this, or rather already inclined) was this work free?


          The phrase about the inefficiency of slave labor makes sense in the LONG-TERM perspective, 100-200-300 years.
          For history, 20-50 years is not a deadline.

          You could say that.

          Russia in the 20th century.

          Russia created industry through the use of slave labor of its fellow citizens.
          I drove the best minds out of the country and destroyed the best hands (this is me about prosperous peasants).
          After that, after 30-40 years, she herself destroyed her industry.
          Thus, by the end of the century, Russia came in a state comparable to the beginning of the century, but with large-scale losses in human potential (both quantitatively, which is more important and qualitatively).
          1. IS-80
            IS-80 16 December 2013 14: 39
            +7
            Quote: cdrt
            Russia created industry through the use of slave labor of its fellow citizens.
            I drove the best minds out of the country and destroyed the best hands (this is me about prosperous peasants).


            My parents were not slaves, if some maniac kept you in slavery, I sympathize with you, but you should not project your personal experience on everyone.
            I wonder what minds created in particular our space industry?
            Wealthy peasants? Are you talking about the fists taking the last from your people?
            1. cdrt
              cdrt 17 December 2013 00: 23
              -6
              Quote: IS-80
              Quote: cdrt
              Russia created industry through the use of slave labor of its fellow citizens.
              I drove the best minds out of the country and destroyed the best hands (this is me about prosperous peasants).


              My parents were not slaves, if some maniac kept you in slavery, I sympathize with you, but you should not project your personal experience on everyone.
              I wonder what minds created in particular our space industry?
              Wealthy peasants? Are you talking about the fists taking the last from your people?


              Considering that millions passed through the Gulag, and your ancestors were not slaves (i.e., past the Gulag), you simply confirmed my old suspicion: every real Stalinist or descendant of the OGPU-NKVD-MGB-kov or descendant of those on whose denunciations they sat down .

              Well pure probability theory:
              - over the years of the Gulag passed through it (of course, but considering 2,7 million for 1951 and from 1.8 to 2,7 for 1939 it seems quite true) 15-18 million people, of which about 1,5 million died in the camps . There was at least one scammer for every person who sat down. With family members we get somewhere 130-144 million people sitting with relatives and knocking with relatives.
              - The militarized guard for 1941 was about 135 thousand people with an average experience of less than 3 years plus 38 thousand NKVD escort troops. Total during the gulag on average we get up to a million guards. Accordingly, since these are young people, with family members up to 6 million people. (because, as I understand it, they didn’t take with relatives who were in the NKVD)
              In total, up to 150 million people are in one way or another connected with the gulag (72 million sitters and relatives, up to 78 million antitanks and scammers with family members).
              Given the population of 1939 at 170 million. and considering that your ancestors did not sit, we get that the assumption that you are either a descendant of a scammer or a descendant of an anticircuit has the maximum probability.
              Choose what you like best.

              And by the way, the main personality of our space program is a man who has been a slave (this is me about the Queen).
              1. ivshubarin
                ivshubarin 17 December 2013 05: 44
                +2
                And you delved into the question for what Korolev was convicted of, for embezzlement. You do not please, Stalin shot thieves, bad. Putin does not shoot, also bad. But Stalin’s methods are much more effective than the current chatter
                1. stalkerwalker
                  stalkerwalker 17 December 2013 15: 24
                  +4
                  Quote: ivshubarin
                  Stalin shot thieves, bad. Putin does not shoot, also bad. But Stalin’s methods are much more effective than the current chatter

                  This is a CAPITAL DILEMMA.
                  No way jumping too fast. The belly button is untied. And someone will think that jumping is better than walking.
                  Mao Tse-Tung tried the Great Leap Forward theory in China in the 60s and 70s. Today the PRC is developing "on foot", but dynamically and confidently, overtaking any "kangaroo".
              2. The comment was deleted.
          2. Proud.
            Proud. 16 December 2013 15: 00
            +1
            Quote: cdrt
            Russia created industry through the use of slave labor of its fellow citizens.
            I drove the best minds out of the country and destroyed the best hands (this is me about prosperous peasants).
            A. Here it is .. Russia is initially to blame. "The best minds" is an abstract phrase, also with regards to the word "best." "She destroyed the best hands" (wealthy peasants). Do not confuse kulaks and wealthy peasants. In all directives, the Soviet authorities I repeated, do not confuse kulaks and prosperous peasants! I will not write about what is called "excesses". It was, is and will be. There are enough die-hard people in the localities.
            Quote: cdrt
            After that, after 30-40 years, she herself destroyed her industry.
            It is generally not correct to compare Russia at the beginning and the end of the 20th century. This is about industrial potential.
            Quote: cdrt
            Thus, by the end of the century, Russia came in a state comparable to the beginning of the century, but with large-scale losses in human potential (both quantitatively, which is more important and qualitatively).
            I do not know where these quotes come from, but if possible, in numbers (about the causes of losses too). And what about "quality" .. Whose conclusions are these?
            1. cdrt
              cdrt 17 December 2013 00: 26
              -2
              Quote: Be proud.
              Quote: cdrt
              Russia created industry through the use of slave labor of its fellow citizens.
              I drove the best minds out of the country and destroyed the best hands (this is me about prosperous peasants).
              A. Here it is .. Russia is initially to blame. "The best minds" is an abstract phrase, also with regards to the word "best." "She destroyed the best hands" (wealthy peasants). Do not confuse kulaks and wealthy peasants. In all directives, the Soviet authorities I repeated, do not confuse kulaks and prosperous peasants! I will not write about what is called "excesses". It was, is and will be. There are enough die-hard people in the localities.
              Quote: cdrt
              After that, after 30-40 years, she herself destroyed her industry.
              It is generally not correct to compare Russia at the beginning and the end of the 20th century. This is about industrial potential.
              Quote: cdrt
              Thus, by the end of the century, Russia came in a state comparable to the beginning of the century, but with large-scale losses in human potential (both quantitatively, which is more important and qualitatively).
              I do not know where these quotes come from, but if possible, in numbers (about the causes of losses too). And what about "quality" .. Whose conclusions are these?


              This is not a quote - this is a hyperbole (written in the form of a quote), showing that from the point of view of history, such a look at the history of Russia in the 200th century is also possible in 300-500-20 years. And the question (namely the question, not the position) is not in the assessments of the author of the text, but in concrete facts refuting this point of view (in the sense - please list the numbers and bring the logic to refute this hyperbole)
              1. Proud.
                Proud. 17 December 2013 07: 45
                -1
                Quote: cdrt
                such a look at the history of Russia in the 20th century is also possible.

                Quote: cdrt
                in specific facts, this point of view refutes (in the sense - please list the numbers and bring the logic to refute this hyperbole)
                They were deliberate. Intentionally? Should I refute, or confirm, what has not happened yet? Are you bored? Can you not answer.
          3. builder74
            builder74 17 December 2013 04: 56
            +1
            Well, now everything is fine: no slaves, the best minds are leaving innumerable hordes abroad, education has been destroyed, science has been crushed, industry is remnants, the army is no comparison, drug addiction and corruption is no comparison! This is in 20 years of "recovery" after the communist "destruction "my country! Yes, I forgot, there is no country either!
            1. cdrt
              cdrt 17 December 2013 12: 42
              0
              Quote: builder74
              Well, now everything is fine: no slaves, the best minds are leaving innumerable hordes abroad, education has been destroyed, science has been crushed, industry is remnants, the army is no comparison, drug addiction and corruption is no comparison! This is in 20 years of "recovery" after the communist "destruction "my country! Yes, I forgot, there is no country either!


              It is better if these minds go abroad than if they disappear to the OGPU-NKVD (like the same Kondratyev, for example, Vavilov).
              And the minds themselves are better off, and for people they can bring benefits.
      2. wax
        wax 16 December 2013 12: 21
        +3
        Stalin "despotically" implanted universal literacy of the population, turned the USSR into the most reading country, the democrats "gently" lowered education and science to the bottom of life. In your,
        illiterate peasants
        created advanced science and technology for 20 years after the end of the Civil War, which allowed to crush the most advanced technical power on the continent - Germany? For almost thirty (!) Years, Russia has been accelerating, but can not reach the level of 1989. Stalin is too tough for the illiterate.
      3. Sirs
        Sirs 16 December 2013 15: 04
        +1
        + one must face the truth. Stalin is Stalin, you are you - history is history, it is up to you to decide how you understand history.
      4. DEfindER
        DEfindER 16 December 2013 17: 24
        +1
        Quote: complete zero
        Yes, a tyrant and a despot millions of ruined lives, but at the same time, Stalin built the economy

        And what does Stalin have to do with it? Are people in other countries not killing lives for crimes? Tell me imprisoned for political persuasion? Well then, read the 58th article for the sake of interest, there is nothing political at all, here are the main articles:
        Betrayal of the Motherland, Armed uprising or invasion in order to seize power, Contacts with a foreign state for “counter-revolutionary purposes”, Espionage, Undermining state industry, transport, trade, Terrorism, etc.
        http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D1%F2%E0%F2%FC%FF_58_%D3%E3%EE%EB%EE%E2%ED%EE%E3%E
        E_%EA%EE%E4%E5%EA%F1%E0_%D0%D1%D4%D1%D0
        1. Shadowcat
          Shadowcat 17 December 2013 09: 47
          0
          So it is necessary to read and think - it is easier to shout, and when poked - to shout louder)
    5. kind
      kind 16 December 2013 10: 04
      17
      The fact that Stalin was a person, I do not deny. The cannibal Mugabe, and Pol Pot, Ian Sari, and Enver Hodge and others were similar.

      I do not see any analogy. Stalin created, and had a mind, and looked many years ahead.
      Those with whom you are comparing them are ordinary dictators who have done nothing but terror. Stalin did not play in democracy, and useless talkers such as Navalny made him benefit from any northern construction site. But in a short time the country has gained better science and education and industry. We need to work, and not solve the problems of fagots at the state level. Then we will live well.
      1. 10kAzAk01
        10kAzAk01 16 December 2013 10: 16
        +8
        Stalin created, and had a mind, and looked many years ahead.

        .... took a backward, agrarian country ...... and left it with a developed prosperous industry ..... under Khrushchev he was slandered greatly ...
      2. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 16 December 2013 20: 54
        +1
        Quote: Good
        Stalin did not play democracy

        True - he followed her principles, and did not play.
    6. Shadowcat
      Shadowcat 16 December 2013 10: 19
      +2
      Oh yes ... Then let's take the apogee of US democracy, because according to the arguments of the majority, it has the fairest judicial system.
      For killing a person, you can get as we said - so, i.e. the death penalty. According to the letter of the law. All, at least become a sodomite, but according to the law is guilty and, as a consequence, the death penalty. Whether you have been negotiated or evidence was fabricated, but according to the letter of the law you become guilty. Not just like that. This I brought down immediately the Google Troy Davis case.

      It turns out that according to the Law and the judicial system, you do not honor (no matter what. The law is the law - it was under Stalin or Ion the Terrible, but the Legislation is the legislation), and as a result, you probably will not admit guilt for the fact that, say, a gang of gopniks ran into a passerby and beating him took all the money.
      According to your logic, this is normal - because the law, even if it is registered in the Criminal Code, is not worth following.

      If I'm wrong, please give a refutation.
      1. PSih2097
        PSih2097 16 December 2013 10: 50
        +3
        Quote: ShadowCat
        The law is the law - it was under Stalin or under Ion the Terrible,

        you can still remember Ivan the Terrible, who in the West is called a bloody tyrant who destroyed according to the available data from two to three thousand people, then what about Elizabeth I, who arranged hell on earth for the Catholics of England, and what did they do in their colonies?
        about Charles IX, who, with his mother Catherine de Medici, massacred the Huguenots in France, on the night of August 24, 1572, on the eve of St. Bartholomew’s day,
        King of Spain Philippe II and the Spanish Inquisition who executed in various ways up to 4 million people?
        And it’s in the Middle Ages, I’m silent about the USA in general - what only they didn’t do with the Indians, and this from the filing of the supreme power, about the Poles who committed atrocities in Ukraine.
        makarov

        The list goes on and on, so there’s nothing to get personal ...
        1. 1c-inform-city
          1c-inform-city 16 December 2013 12: 41
          +3
          I fully agree Elizabeth "virgin" personally signed over 70000 death sentences.
          1. Doctorleg
            Doctorleg 16 December 2013 14: 06
            +1
            Quote: 1c-inform-city
            I fully agree Elizabeth "virgin" personally signed over 70000 death sentences.

            It is unlikely that she personally signed 70 thousand sentences. The first place is taken by the Duke of Alba - 18600 individual (not list) sentences signed personally
            1. Shadowcat
              Shadowcat 16 December 2013 15: 32
              0
              An interesting statement, but at the same time everyone believes that I.V. Stalin personally carried out executions.
            2. cdrt
              cdrt 17 December 2013 00: 44
              0
              Quote: DoctorOleg
              Quote: 1c-inform-city
              I fully agree Elizabeth "virgin" personally signed over 70000 death sentences.

              It is unlikely that she personally signed 70 thousand sentences. The first place is taken by the Duke of Alba - 18600 individual (not list) sentences signed personally


              Well, for the sake of justice, I must say that Alba did not just rule the country, but added fire and sword to the revolution and the war of liberation.
              Although I did not know that the Spaniards in the Netherlands signed the verdicts personally by the ruler - I thought it was terror a la our civil war or Vendée in France
        2. aviator65
          aviator65 16 December 2013 22: 52
          +2
          Any of our rulers, who stood across the throat of the West, a priori recorded in tyrants. However, now this rule applies not only to Russia.
          1. cdrt
            cdrt 17 December 2013 01: 16
            0
            Quote: aviator65
            Any of our rulers, who stood across the throat of the West, a priori recorded in tyrants. However, now this rule applies not only to Russia.


            And this is also true. Only the support of one or another point of view by the West does not change historical facts
      2. Babon
        Babon 16 December 2013 13: 49
        +1
        And you look at the case of the Cuban "five" there is nothing impartial and objective in this matter.
        1. Shadowcat
          Shadowcat 16 December 2013 16: 02
          0
          What is this sir? if to my first line, then there is irony and sarcasm
      3. cdrt
        cdrt 16 December 2013 14: 10
        -4
        Quote: ShadowCat
        Oh yes ... Then let's take the apogee of US democracy, because according to the arguments of the majority, it has the fairest judicial system.
        For killing a person, you can get as we said - so, i.e. the death penalty. According to the letter of the law. All, at least become a sodomite, but according to the law is guilty and, as a consequence, the death penalty. Whether you have been negotiated or evidence was fabricated, but according to the letter of the law you become guilty. Not just like that. This I brought down immediately the Google Troy Davis case.

        It turns out that according to the Law and the judicial system, you do not honor (no matter what. The law is the law - it was under Stalin or Ion the Terrible, but the Legislation is the legislation), and as a result, you probably will not admit guilt for the fact that, say, a gang of gopniks ran into a passerby and beating him took all the money.
        According to your logic, this is normal - because the law, even if it is registered in the Criminal Code, is not worth following.

        If I'm wrong, please give a refutation.


        You are not interested in a refutation - only your words laughing
        Well ... bringing the opponent’s thought (or attributed thought) to the point of absurdity and its refutation is one of the definitions of demagogy.
        1. Shadowcat
          Shadowcat 16 December 2013 15: 37
          0
          Sir, I just voiced how I understand all these statements, including citizen Makarov. If I’m not right in my understanding of this statement, then explain simply and intelligibly what you are going to say (and you didn’t say that I was not interested, which is by no means true) and you think that citizen Makarov wanted to say his statement.
          Otherwise, you unfoundedly blame me.
      4. cdrt
        cdrt 17 December 2013 00: 34
        -1
        Quote: ShadowCat
        Oh yes ... Then let's take the apogee of US democracy, because according to the arguments of the majority, it has the fairest judicial system.
        For killing a person, you can get as we said - so, i.e. the death penalty. According to the letter of the law. All, at least become a sodomite, but according to the law is guilty and, as a consequence, the death penalty. Whether you have been negotiated or evidence was fabricated, but according to the letter of the law you become guilty. Not just like that. This I brought down immediately the Google Troy Davis case.

        It turns out that according to the Law and the judicial system, you do not honor (no matter what. The law is the law - it was under Stalin or Ion the Terrible, but the Legislation is the legislation), and as a result, you probably will not admit guilt for the fact that, say, a gang of gopniks ran into a passerby and beating him took all the money.
        According to your logic, this is normal - because the law, even if it is registered in the Criminal Code, is not worth following.

        If I'm wrong, please give a refutation.


        Well, the most obvious difference is that 12 ordinary people are sitting between the prosecution and the verdict in the United States, who listen to both the prosecution and the defense, and in Stalin's time there were a trio headed by the local head of the punitive body (both the investigating and the accusing).
        In other words, in the first case, the parties to the process are equal (at least that is how the system is built), in the second we are talking about formality, because in fact there is only the prosecution, it also makes decisions.
        You can also recall the presence of the presumption of innocence in the first case and the achievement of proletarian justice (as I understand it - the achievement of Vyshinsky) - the possibility of sentencing based on only the testimony of the accused - this is the second case
        1. Shadowcat
          Shadowcat 17 December 2013 09: 34
          0
          Quote: cdrt
          Well, the most obvious difference is that 12 ordinary people are sitting between the prosecution and the verdict in the USA, who listen to both the prosecution and the defense

          Immediately I want to note that you are wrong
          http://dokumentika.org/lt/specialiosios-tarnybos/senat-ssha-odobril-bessrochnoe-
          zakliuchenie-pod-strazhey-i-pitki-bez-suda-i-sledstviya
          those. Since 2012, officially the United States can do without any judicial systems - just suspicion or a sidelong glance at the policeman is enough.
          Of the unofficial - the most famous Guantammo prison or CIA prison in Europe where people are held without any charges. Or the murder of M. Kadafri, Osama bin Laden without trial. (I remind you that at the insistence of I.V. Stalin, a trial was conducted on the Nazi-fascist elite (the Nuremberg trial)) It is very civilized and democratic, right?

          As for the triples, you are telling the truth, but lies hiding in it - just look at the same Vika
          The 1936 Constitution of the USSR stipulated that justice in the USSR was carried out by the judiciary, court proceedings were conducted openly, the accused was given the right to defense, and judges were independent and obeyed only by law. These principles have indeed found expression in practice in relation to civil and general criminal cases.

          It turns out that the judicial system was.
          Regarding triples and statistics on them - there are articles on topvar that show how statistics are made regarding the USSR, therefore, it is not worth believing in a pro-Western vetch, and especially Khrushchev, so I do not cite them.

          By the way, another argument from the life of a very respected and glorious man Konstantin Konstantinovich was arrested in 1937, but co-founded in 1940 with full restoration of office and withdrawal of charges. What he personally wrote about:
          that the enemy sowed doubts and deceived the party - this led to the arrest of the innocent.


          But here is a fact from life due to which you can also start a business
          "At the same time, it should be noted that the repressions were not always completely unfounded. So, the future Marshal of the Soviet Union K. K. Rokossovsky was convicted under Article 58. What grounds were put forward? Being the commander of a cavalry division in Transbaikalia, Rokossovsky neglected warnings about the upcoming a sharp change in the weather, raised the division on alarm and brought it out into the field. The cavalrymen were caught in torrential rains, and then frost struck. The horses did not have insulated sweatshirts and blankets, were shod in the summer. Did not have cloaks and overcoats and personnel. As a result, many the horses fell ill and fell or broke their legs on the ice. There were cases of colds with a fatal outcome among the personnel of the division. The case can, of course, be qualified as criminal negligence, but in 1938 KK Rokossovsky's actions were considered sabotage. "

          Purposeful sabotage or the commander’s mistake, as they found out under the investigation.
          There are many such cases - Tupolev, Polikarpov, Korolev and many others - all had sins.
        2. Shadowcat
          Shadowcat 17 December 2013 09: 40
          0
          I’ll also add that in the world there existed and exists two legal systems - the Anglo-Saxon (the United States refers to it) and the Romano-German (continental European countries). At the latter, taking particulars for the country, the judicial system of the USSR was built.
    7. Bazilevs81
      Bazilevs81 16 December 2013 11: 07
      +4
      Well, I do not agree, if you put today's leaders in his place at the time, what could they do after the 1st world and civil war, a big question. Here we need a deep analysis, there were many questions. How was it necessary to get people to work after these cataclysms, how many were those who did not want to work? How was it necessary to provide people with bread in the cities, if people fled from villages to the city, who would grow grain (the fist could not give as many jobs as the collective farm)? The country needs new technologies. West sold them only for grain, would we have won the Second World War without them? How many careerists came to power, how many of them were pests? How many competitors did Stalin have bent their destructive line? And were these millions innocent, and were these millions at all?
      And now let us ask ourselves the main question: how much should today's officials, businessmen, managers of large enterprises and their relatives who see that they do not honestly earn millions, and do they deserve to die? Because the result of their activities can be much deplorable to the people.
      1. cdrt
        cdrt 16 December 2013 14: 13
        -6
        Quote: Bazilevs81
        The country needs new technologies. West sold them only for grain, would we have won the Second World War without them?


        Well, we can recall that European fascism spread precisely under the threat of the onset of communism ... and the aggressive nature of the Bolshevik regime - the whole world knew about the bringing of the World Revolution on the bayonets of the Red Army.

        You can recall that before the revolution, Russia was not excluded from the technological development of the whole world and the issue of attracting ANY technology was solved much easier (as an example, the revolution in Russian artillery of the second half of the 19th century was created by cooperation with Krupp) - the purchase of equipment without special restrictions.
        1. IS-80
          IS-80 16 December 2013 14: 50
          +3
          Quote: cdrt
          Well, we can recall that European fascism spread precisely under the threat of the onset of communism ... and the aggressive nature of the Bolshevik regime - the whole world knew about the bringing of the World Revolution on the bayonets of the Red Army.

          You can recall that before the revolution, Russia was not excluded from the technological development of the whole world and the issue of attracting ANY technology was solved much easier (as an example, the revolution in Russian artillery of the second half of the 19th century was created by cooperation with Krupp) - the purchase of equipment without special restrictions.


          This impudent lies already got tired. Come up with something fresher, more sophisticated. Already a bunch of articles were and posts in which it was all thoroughly dismantled.
      2. cdrt
        cdrt 17 December 2013 00: 52
        0
        Quote: Bazilevs81
        Well, I do not agree, if you put today's leaders in his place at the time, what could they do after the 1st world and civil war, a big question. Here we need a deep analysis, there were many questions. How was it necessary to get people to work after these cataclysms, how many were those who did not want to work? How was it necessary to provide people with bread in the cities, if people fled from villages to the city, who would grow grain (the fist could not give as many jobs as the collective farm)? The country needs new technologies. West sold them only for grain, would we have won the Second World War without them? How many careerists came to power, how many of them were pests? How many competitors did Stalin have bent their destructive line? And were these millions innocent, and were these millions at all?
        And now let us ask ourselves the main question: how much should today's officials, businessmen, managers of large enterprises and their relatives who see that they do not honestly earn millions, and do they deserve to die? Because the result of their activities can be much deplorable to the people.


        Here, in my opinion, a little upside down.
        As for the millions of victims - there would be a desire to find - you will find. And crossing a couple of sources that are not biased by the parties to the dispute, you will get numbers.
        On the subject of famine and flight to cities: famine since 1924 has never been as bad as in 1932-1933. Moreover, agriculture developed at a good pace. By 1927-1928, in many positions, they reached 1913. But after 1928-1931, productivity also fell, which, combined with "skillful" management (no matter how badly the Bolsheviks were treated, I don't think they deliberately starved millions of people), led to monstrous hunger 32-33.
        The exodus to the cities seems to have begun in 1928, which coincides with the beginning of collectivization.
        Recently there was work - compared the development strategies of Russia in the 20th century. - look, the work is slightly biased, but curious
    8. Dan Slav
      Dan Slav 16 December 2013 11: 50
      +2
      You live on Earth only because the Country had such a Leader who greets the people of his Power to Victory.
    9. wax
      wax 16 December 2013 12: 04
      +1
      the deaths of millions of innocent people

      You need, firstly, to count the "millions", secondly, to separate the innocent from them (and here you will encounter the paradox that those who served time, with rare exceptions, did not consider themselves innocent). After that - the result with the studio.
    10. Lukich
      Lukich 16 December 2013 12: 10
      -4
      makarov UA

      The cannibal Mugabe, and Pol Pot, Ian Sari, and Enver Hodge and others were similar.


      ... what is the analogy ??? ... in all respects they are cockroaches in front of him and ...
    11. Babon
      Babon 16 December 2013 12: 57
      +2
      Something you went over Stalin with such people to compare that Pol Pot made Cambodia a nuclear power? Tried to raise the industry? He had a peculiar concept of equality for all.
    12. Petrik66
      Petrik66 16 December 2013 15: 21
      0
      What would you suggest?
    13. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 16 December 2013 18: 36
      +2
      Quote: makarov
      Thank God that I do not belong to her.

      Not to the CREATOR, but to the mammon give praises!

      Quote: makarov
      in no way relieve Stalin of responsibility in the deaths of millions of innocent people

      "The British Encyclopedia of the 1964 edition, volume 5, page 250, information about Stalin:
      From a speech by W. Churchill in the House of Lords on December 21, 1959, on the occasion of the 80 anniversary of the birth of I.V. Stalin:

      “It was a great happiness for Russia that during the years of difficult trials Russia was led by the genius and unshakable commander IV Stalin. He was an outstanding personality, impressed by the cruel time of the period in which his whole life passed ... "
    14. stranik72
      stranik72 16 December 2013 20: 38
      0
      Quote: makarov
      The fact that Stalin was a person, I do not deny. The cannibal Mugabe, and Pol Pot, Ian Sari, and Enver Hodge and others were similar.

      It’s not a cheap, notorious Stalinophobe to speak in a similar tone about a great time, not the same scale masturbate to your image - this is your destiny.
  3. Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 16 December 2013 08: 23
    +9
    ... Great Tupolev was extremely proud, arrogant, stubborn in his own right person ...-if IT were different, there would be nothing. And TU-95 IS THE CENTER OF CREATIVITY!YES, I myself was a mechanic of the "Success" radar station. Qualitatively, conveniently, reliably! soldier drinks
    1. The comment was deleted.
  4. Dimy4
    Dimy4 16 December 2013 08: 31
    +5
    came up with a nickname for Stalin ...

    Honestly, I haven’t heard it yet; I’m reading the wrong literature.
  5. Ivan Petrovich
    Ivan Petrovich 16 December 2013 08: 41
    +3
    there are few equal rulers with Comrade Stalin in the history of Russia, builders of the EMPIRE. Well, probably Ivan the Terrible, Petr1, Catherine 2 with Potemkin ... well, probably that's all
    1. ivshubarin
      ivshubarin 17 December 2013 05: 55
      0
      No wonder they went down in history as GREAT.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  6. wulf66
    wulf66 16 December 2013 08: 54
    10
    Article plus! He never generalized the bloody bacchanalia of Leninist Trotskyists and Stalin’s construction of POWER !!!
  7. Stiletto
    Stiletto 16 December 2013 09: 09
    +1
    Comrade Stalin was building half the world, for that matter.
  8. Igor39
    Igor39 16 December 2013 09: 16
    -18 qualifying.
    Stalin summons Gorky and says: Comrade Gorky! You wrote a good story called "Mother", I want to ask you to write the same story called "Father".
    Gorky: Joseph Vissarionovich, I would love to write, but I’m only old and the memory is not that ...
    Stalin: Do not worry for memory, comrade Beria will remind you !!!
    1. Volkhov
      Volkhov 16 December 2013 11: 42
      +6
      In fact, Gorky did not find the era of Beria, they could only intersect in Georgia - in the anecdotal computer of Svobodovtsev there was no program of chronological coordination.
      1. Igor39
        Igor39 16 December 2013 12: 44
        +2
        Apparently the joke did not like, or not everyone is okay with a sense of humor laughing
        1. olviko
          olviko 16 December 2013 13: 04
          +3
          "Stalin possessed a prophetic gift"

          If you allow another joke in the subject.
          Football match Russia-Germany. Score 2-0 in favor of the Germans.
          - Guys! - yells from the rostrum grandfather-veteran. - We drenched them near Stalingrad, Kursk, on the Dnieper, in Berlin! And you bastards, disgrace us !!!
          Seated nearby Georgians philosophically remarks:
          - Then you had another trainer ...
          1. ImPerts
            ImPerts 16 December 2013 13: 18
            +3
            Post-perestroika realities:
            - You know, he has recently changed a lot for the better - both as the leader of the country, and as the supreme commander in chief, and simply as a person!
            - Are you about Putin?
            - What does Putin have to do with that ?! I'm about Stalin!

            и

            When deciding what to do with the captured German navy, Stalin
            offered to divide, and Churchill made a counter-proposal: "Flood."
            Stalin replied: "Here you are, and drown your half."

            и

            A conversation between two political scientists:
            - There is a person - there is a problem, there is no person - there is no problem.
            - This was said by Stalin.
            - No, Obama said this after the assassination of Gaddafi.
            1. ImPerts
              ImPerts 16 December 2013 13: 26
              +1
              How it all ends:
              - The plan to de-Stalinize Russia will lead to the cessation of steel production
  9. Omskgasmyas
    Omskgasmyas 16 December 2013 09: 28
    +7
    As far as I know, Tupolev and Co. were sent to the United States to acquire licenses for aircraft needed by the USSR. We bought 3 licenses without bothering to oblige the seller to convert the drawings from inches to centimeters. And for the money saved, they bought for themselves, for their loved ones, refrigerators, an unprecedented thing in the USSR at that time. Then he and the brigade, already in sharashka, remade himself what the seller had to do. After all, even in Tsarist times, for ships ordered in the United States, Americans made drawings in the metric system, this was not a problem. And who will say that the villain in vain planted a genius?
    1. askort154
      askort154 16 December 2013 10: 22
      +1
      Omskgazmyas ..... As far as I know, Tupolev and Co. were sent to the United States to acquire licenses for aircraft needed by the USSR. Purchased 3 licenses.

      It seems like a fiction. If not, cite the source. In the history of the creation of the Tu-4 (copy of the B-29), nothing like that was said. The technical documentation, which appeared on one of the 4 sides, was translated independently. Not any license
      was not. The Americans themselves were in shock when they first saw the Tu-4 at the parade in 1947.
      1. fzr1000
        fzr1000 16 December 2013 10: 29
        +4
        The case described above was before the Second World War, and Tu-4 after.
        1. askort154
          askort154 16 December 2013 13: 07
          +1
          fzr1000 ... The case described above was before the Second World War, and Tu-4 after.

          Yes, I apologize to the post "Omskgazmyas"! I found it myself. Tupolev really was
          with a delegation (and wife Julia) in the United States in 1936, where he bypassed the company’s official deal and set tasks with Sikorsky. Before that, he was in France (he owned French). After which, he and his wife were accused of trying to sell drawings
          and espionage. He served his sentence from 1939 to 1941, in (cunningly invented by Beria,
          to increase disability and secrecy), special - SHARASHKE.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Ihrek
            Ihrek 16 December 2013 14: 55
            +4
            Sat, it means he was guilty. This did not work for Stalin. It is now possible to plunder half of the Army or drink half of the country and it’s fine. They can also give a new position. The main thing is to have your own person. And if not yours, then they can plant you for food for 500 rubles. By the way, under Stalin, bread in canteens was free, eat as much as you want. Hrush came and canceled it the next day. Stalin did not drag his son out of captivity. Saying "Why is he better than other prisoners." And if Khrush was in Stalin's place and his son would have gotten, it's scary to think.
  10. Neighbor
    Neighbor 16 December 2013 10: 08
    +4
    This is now one Poghosyan plows like a bee on the galleys. And Stalin had Polikarpov, Sukhoi, Lavochkin, Yakovlev, Ilyushin, Mikoyan with Gurevich, Bardzini, Myasischev, Tupolev .... Socialist competition, however.
  11. kind
    kind 16 December 2013 10: 18
    +2
    This is now one Poghosyan plows like a bee on the galleys.

    What did he plow then?
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 16 December 2013 10: 54
      +2
      Quote: Good
      What did he plow then?

      Su-37, Su-47, "Skat" from MiG, MiG-35, etc ...
      1. kind
        kind 16 December 2013 11: 30
        0
        And where is all this?
      2. Sirs
        Sirs 16 December 2013 14: 54
        +1
        Poghosyan plowed something, but how many promising projects I think hacked because they go against the dry policy (such a competition).
  12. kartalovkolya
    kartalovkolya 16 December 2013 10: 25
    +6
    Our whole trouble is that we very easily believe all scoundrels and crooks who can speak beautifully, but at the same time mediocrity and round zeros! What did their so-called "reforms" give us apart from the collapse of the Great Country? And these scoundrels, in animal fear from only one shadow of the Great Stalin, are trying to defile all his deeds and his name, out of fear of responsibility for the perfect betrayal of the Motherland! But they were cruelly mistaken and they did not manage to cloud the minds of the people with beautiful words and sensational "revelations "Stalin. So gentlemen, liberals, get ready: there are enough quilted jackets for all of you, and dry the crackers yourself before it's too late! HANDS OFF THE GREAT STALIN!
    1. Orik
      Orik 16 December 2013 11: 30
      0
      Quote: kartalovkolya
      Our whole trouble is that we very easily believe all scoundrels and crooks who can speak beautifully, but at the same time mediocrity and round zeros! What did their so-called "reforms" give us apart from the collapse of the Great Country? And these scoundrels, in animal fear from only one shadow of the Great Stalin, are trying to defile all his deeds and his name, out of fear of responsibility for the perfect betrayal of the Motherland! But they were cruelly mistaken and they did not manage to cloud the minds of the people with beautiful words and sensational "revelations "Stalin. So gentlemen, liberals, get ready: there are enough quilted jackets for all of you, and dry the crackers yourself before it's too late! HANDS OFF THE GREAT STALIN!

      The most important thing here is not those who can speak beautifully, but those superior who like to listen to it without understanding, and often love when their ass licks.
  13. Azzi
    Azzi 16 December 2013 10: 34
    +4
    But at the same time, he left on his own an incomprehensible, for me, at least, a riddle. How did he, for all his providence, not see the terrible cockroach fight of his companions after his death, which ultimately brought to nothing all that he had erected?


    Take a closer look at Beria, an explicit receiver. But why it turned out, how it turned out .... A bunch of books, a bunch of theories have been written, but in my opinion, judging by the facts and history, a banal betrayal is in the face.
    1. PSih2097
      PSih2097 16 December 2013 10: 57
      +2
      Quote: Azzi
      on the face is a banal betrayal.

      Stalin was traumatized, and Lavrenty Palych did not have time to quickly react and raise the NKVD troops ...
  14. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 16 December 2013 11: 06
    +8
    The generations of our "democratic" leaders who came to power on the brutal criticism of Stalin, showed their complete failure as leaders of the country. Most of the strategic tasks that Russia faced at the beginning of the 90-th years turned out to be impossible for our leading elite. The country falls lower and lower, the people are in poverty. In ordinary people in thought: Stalin is not on you ...
    1. Orik
      Orik 16 December 2013 11: 31
      +1
      Yes, Putin himself went to the wall, as the organizer.
    2. Neighbor
      Neighbor 16 December 2013 15: 02
      0
      And who is this epic Hero and even an order bearer
  15. Nu daaaa ...
    Nu daaaa ... 16 December 2013 11: 21
    -9
    A Vy, uvažhaemye, ne zabyli, chto Stalin i Tupoleva v 1937 godu posadil? Za spionaz v polzu Frantsij i za prodazhu chertezhei ... Kak i Petljakova, Mjasištševa, Koroleva i mnogie drugie konstruktory.

    http://www.warheroes.ru/hero/hero.asp?Hero_id=10008
    1. wax
      wax 16 December 2013 12: 39
      +1
      We remember a lot. The result is that Stalin rises above both Roosevelt and Churchill - the most outstanding Western figures of that era.
      1. vardex
        vardex 16 December 2013 14: 57
        0
        naturally, he made the imperialists fight against each other at the time, this was at a time when the Soviet Union hated and Hitler applauded everything, including America and all this is a gay center
      2. cdrt
        cdrt 17 December 2013 01: 00
        -2
        Quote: Wax
        We remember a lot. The result is that Stalin rises above both Roosevelt and Churchill - the most outstanding Western figures of that era.


        Well over Roosevelt - hardly. All the same, the United States became the first country in the world after WWII, which later could unite most of the world against us, and win the Cold War.
        And we - became the number two power with claims to number one.
        But Churchill's duet Stalin-Roosevelt outplayed this fact.
        The question is that the system created by Stalin did not survive the creator for a while, and the Roosevelt system - well, until the end of the 1990s, it lived out for sure
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 17 December 2013 15: 32
          +3
          Quote: cdrt
          Well over Roosevelt - hardly

          This is because there were no Khrushchevs in England to throw the dead out of their graves and rewrite the history of the country "for themselves".
          Quote: cdrt
          And we - became the number two power with claims to number one.

          Enlighten your power - this where? laughing
          Quote: cdrt
          All the same, the United States became the first country in the world after WWII, which later could unite most of the world against us, and win the Cold War.

          If your house burned down, and a neighbor who helped put out the fire turned out to be an arsonist and blackmailer ... Morality and political correctness are inapplicable to "mattress mats".
    2. Proud.
      Proud. 16 December 2013 13: 12
      +1
      Quote: Nu daaaa ...
      Za spionaz v polzu Frantsij i za prodazhu chertezhei
      Let me answer you with the words of an Indian, or a Pakistani, from the second part of the series "The Sopranos", translated by the Goblin. So, literally (with an indescribable accent): "You are telling me, X ... Yu!". Use the link to the biography of Tupolev , which, in turn, is represented by a certain Anton Bocharov, who refers to a source called: "Ponomorev AN (Doctor of Technical Sciences, Colonel General of Aviation) / Soviet Aviation Designers / Moscow. 1990", is somewhat inappropriate.
      1. Nu daaaa ...
        Nu daaaa ... 16 December 2013 14: 53
        -4
        A vy, uvažaemyi, chitaite togda naprimer memuar Leonida Kerbera naprimer. Gde opisana, kak etih vseh konstruktorov possadili, kak oni sideli i chto ob etom dumali. Ili chitaete ondogo iz samyh blizkih sotrudnikov Andrei Nikolajevitša tozhe "... somewhat inappropriate." ??

        http://militera.lib.ru/memo/russian/kerber/01.html
        1. Proud.
          Proud. 16 December 2013 16: 16
          +2
          Quote: Nu daaaa ...
          chitaite togda naprimer memuar Leonida Kerbera naprimer.
          First, it is unclear why Kerber himself was imprisoned, he modestly keeps silent about this. Then, later, all these "misunderstandings", like the silence, became "repressions of innocent convicts." Second. Kerber was Tupolev's deputy. Later, of course, from 1953 goda.Therefore, I think so, he did not under any guise, did not write the truth about his boss, in his opus "Tupolev Sharaga". This work, by the way, came out in the publishing house "Posev" (a very authoritative office, for a certain circle of people! ), under a pseudonym. And Tupolev also became an "agent of French intelligence." Do you think that Kerber's memoirs should be read as true? I have a different opinion.
          1. cdrt
            cdrt 17 December 2013 01: 06
            +1
            Quote: Be proud.
            Quote: Nu daaaa ...
            chitaite togda naprimer memuar Leonida Kerbera naprimer.
            First, it is unclear why Kerber himself was imprisoned, he modestly keeps silent about this. Then, later, all these "misunderstandings", like the silence, became "repressions of innocent convicts." Second. Kerber was Tupolev's deputy. Later, of course, from 1953 goda.Therefore, I think so, he did not under any guise, did not write the truth about his boss, in his opus "Tupolev Sharaga". This work, by the way, came out in the publishing house "Posev" (a very authoritative office, for a certain circle of people! ), under a pseudonym. And Tupolev also became an "agent of French intelligence." Do you think that Kerber's memoirs should be read as true? I have a different opinion.


            Well, Tupolev’s articles seem to be 58-6,7,8,911 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR
    3. Nu daaaa ...
      Nu daaaa ... 16 December 2013 15: 57
      -5
      Udivljaet tupost nekotoryh forumchan. Vaši minusy ni kak faktov ne menjajut- Tupoleva possadili i ob etom Stalin ochen i ochen horošo znal. Kak io sidenie mnogih drugih vydajuštših konstruktorov, Nachinaja Grigorovicom s Polikarpovym i konchaja Korolevom. Vy hot sobstvennuju istoriu vyucili, cudaki.
      1. Proud.
        Proud. 16 December 2013 17: 34
        +1
        Quote: Nu daaaa ...
        Udivljaet tupost nekotoryh forumchan.
        I agree with this phrase. And therefore I will repeat myself. With a question. Why did I know or did not know? Nobody denies this. It's about the fact that the same Tupolev and Korolev were not "innocent". But later, all this was covered by a vague the wording - "repressed". By the way, I did not minus you. But now I will put it. And about history, we teach, an eccentric man, we teach, therefore we do not repeat the mantra about "KGovuyu Gebnyu".
      2. Max otto
        Max otto 16 December 2013 21: 39
        +2
        Quote: Nu daaaa ...
        Udivljaet tupost nekotoryh forumchan. Vaši minusy ni kak faktov ne menjajut- Tupoleva possadili i ob etom Stalin ochen i ochen horošo znal. Kak io sidenie mnogih drugih vydajuštših konstruktorov, Nachinaja Grigorovicom s Polikarpovym i konchaja Korolevom. Vy hot sobstvennuju istoriu vyucili, cudaki.

        Ja tebe sejchas po detski objasnju: Tupoleff byl v komandirovke, ego poslali za obrazcami sovremennoj tehniki. A on privez ustarevshie obrazcy, da esho i chertezhi byli sdelany v dujmah (dlja perevoda chertezhtej v metricheskuju sistemu trebovalos' goda 2-4). Chto rascenilos' kak sabotazh i rastrata. (Wow, how you write that, I can’t put my mind to it. Tired.) In modern terminology, this is called - cutting public funds. In your very democratic country, how much do you give? 10-20 years with confiscation, no?
  16. ImPerts
    ImPerts 16 December 2013 11: 50
    +4
    Add my three pennies:
    "The most famous of the published documents containing summary information on repressions is the following memo addressed to N.S. Khrushchev3):
    1 February 1954 city
    To the Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU, Comrade Khrushchev N.S.
    In connection with the signals received by a number of persons from the CPSU Central Committee about the illegal conviction for counter-revolutionary crimes in previous years by the OGPU Board, the NKVD Troika, the Special Conference, the Military Collegium, the courts and military tribunals, and in accordance with your instructions on the need to review cases against convicted persons for counterrevolutionary crimes and currently held in camps and prisons, we report: during the period from 1921 to the present, 3.777.380 people have been convicted of counterrevolutionary crimes, including 642.980 people for VMN NIJ in camps and prisons for a period of 25 years and below - 2.369.220, in exile and expulsion - 765.180 people.
    Of the total number of convicts, tentatively, the following were convicted: 2.900.000 people - by the OGPU Board, the NKVD Troika and the Special Conference and 877.000 people - by the courts, military tribunals, the Special Collegium and the Military Collegium.
    ... It should be noted that created by the Decree of the Central Executive Committee and the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR from November 5 of November 1934 of the year, the Special Conference of the NKVD of the USSR, which lasted until September 1 of 1953 of the year, sentenced 442.531 people, including 10.101 people to VMN, to imprisonment - 360.921 person, to exile and expulsion (within the country) - 57.539 person and to other penalties (offsetting the time spent in custody, expulsion abroad, forced treatment) - 3.970 person ...
    Attorney General R. Rudenko
    Minister of the Interior S. Kruglov
    Minister of Justice K. Gorshenin ...
    ... So, to summarize - over the entire period of Stalin's rule, the number of prisoners at the same time in prison has never exceeded 2 million 760 thousand (of course, not counting German, Japanese and other prisoners of war). Thus, there can be no question of any “tens of millions of prisoners of the Gulag” ...
    ... Nevertheless, even in the most difficult 1942 and 1943 years, prisoner mortality was about 20% per year in camps and about 10% per year in prisons, and not 10% per month, as A. Solzhenitsyn claims, for example. . By the beginning of the 50-ies in the camps and colonies, it fell below 1% per year, and in prisons - below 0,5% ...
    ... Thus, among the prisoners held in the camps of the Gulag, the majority were criminals, and the "repressed", as a rule, was less than 1 / 3. The exception is the 1944-1948 years, when this category received a worthy replenishment in the person of Vlasovites, policemen, elders and other "fighters against communist tyranny." Even less was the percentage of "political" in forced labor colonies ...
    Read more here:
    http://wiki.istmat.info/миф:число_расстрелянных
  17. Ihrek
    Ihrek 16 December 2013 12: 06
    +5
    The author of the article is a bold plus. He expressed the opinion of many millions of people, if not the majority. Stalin is a great genius, a great land of Soviets. Thanks to him, the USSR won the Second World War. After all the devastation, he lifted the country from its knees, and made it a superpower, equal to America, which was snickering against the background of other people's troubles. It is thanks to his foresight, toughness, wisdom that we are now. Otherwise, America would have swept away our country long ago. We still use his successes. The same TU-95. Under Stalin, 70% of all countries were either our ally, or were about to become one. And then Khrush appeared to the people, and off they went. "Victory" point put EBN and marked (disgusting even to call their names). Stalin did not have enough 20 years for a complete victory in the whole world. He is a very honest person, he did everything only for the prosperity of the country. There was nothing to bury him with. And his famous phrase - "I am not changing a simple soldier for a field marshal."
  18. saag
    saag 16 December 2013 12: 15
    +1
    Quote: kartalovkolya
    Our whole misfortune is that we very easily believe all the villains and crooks who can beautifully

    The whole misfortune of people is that they believe in what they would like to believe, no matter what ...
  19. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 16 December 2013 13: 07
    +3
    Here, more and more, Stalin is saying that, Stalin is this, but how did he have to act? He had to go after every official or worker and persuade him? Or let him steal? That's because the villain didn’t allow. There is a law, please execute it and if you occupy it a high position, it’s an honor and praise to you, but the corresponding responsibility, is it possible for any official to feel at ease and what’s better? Well, have we learned to criticize and work? Make better and more Stalin for the country, and then start scratching your tongue , only now I feel for the whole time of crappy democratization I won’t get even one millionth of the benefit that Stalin brought to Russia / USSR.
  20. chenia
    chenia 16 December 2013 13: 26
    +3
    Quote: makarov
    But this does not in any way relieve Stalin of responsibility in the deaths of millions of innocent people whose bones are scattered in the vast expanses of the North ... tens of millions of Soviet families fell victim to the reign of Ghouls.


    Mr. Liebe is growing, something that you and others like you do not know how to (or knowingly lying), I understood a long time ago (and not only me, people are already laughing and mocking liberal statistics).

    The demographic losses of the Soviet Socialist Republic in 1918-1959 were 70 million people, where 39 million WWII (12 million unborn, 27 million loss of real people (but 2-4 million of them is emigration).

    The remaining 32 million (8 mln. - unborn, 5 mln. Emigration after the Civil, 8,5 mln. Hispanic (5% of the population.
    The remaining 10-11 million. Red and white terror, civil war, all famines (and famine 47g.) And repression, and typhoid, etc.

    And when you jump out of these numbers, this is an indicator of your stupidity.

    And who will be responsible for the liberal experiment, when demographic losses reached the same 70 mln. People, and the complete collapse of the economy in 25 years?
    And there didn’t seem to be a terrible war, and there were no repressions and famines.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 16 December 2013 13: 52
      -1
      Red terror? And was he? And then the facts do not confirm.
  21. EvilLion
    EvilLion 16 December 2013 13: 51
    +2
    Just to compare: our today's Superjet, in which there is nothing new, was built for 6 years, it was tested as much again - and the world was amazed, except by the darkness of the money ditched for it.


    The author apparently does not know that before any aircraft is allowed to carry people, he goes a long way of testing and certification, in this regard, the SSJ performed even better than the average, but the Tu-95 fought for tests, and they were tests. And the approach that maybe in a year from 100 all 5 cars will be beaten, but the country will have something to bring the bomb to, is not acceptable for less extreme tasks.

    But Tupolev really had to be built, otherwise he stole, for which he was sitting, and crushed others.
  22. chenia
    chenia 16 December 2013 13: 56
    +3
    I want to note that the possibility of solving such a range of problems (the creation of nuclear weapons and nuclear energy, missiles of all kinds, jet aviation, radio electronics and the technological breakthrough in general) is primarily due to the significantly increased educational level of our people in the mid-forties (then cultural and educational Bolshevik politics).
    And there was a wider selection of talented people.

    And the Stalinist method of selection, organization and responsibility made it possible that from that moment on we were able to solve any technical problems independently.
  23. EvilLion
    EvilLion 16 December 2013 14: 00
    +3
    how pensioners-Boeings are issued in the USA


    They have not been released for a long time.

    As he, with all his providence, did not see the terrible cockroach fight of his associates on his death


    1) Kirov was killed in the 1934.
    2) Stalin foresaw everything, but the struggle for power did not subside even for a minute, the party scum was going to drive back to the 30s, then it didn’t work out. But Stalin had mistakes; he was not a god, but was building a state that had no analogue.
  24. Algor73
    Algor73 16 December 2013 14: 22
    +6
    Well, Stalin's merits cannot be underestimated. Especially when a lot of time has passed and almost everyone who writes to remove articles and comments did not live in those days, but draws information from the Internet. We already judge Stalin's deeds as the deeds of Peter I, etc., that is, cold calculation, the result from the height of the past years. But all because we are all tired of living in a country where there is a mess, we want order, regardless of the cost of achieving such order (And now I’m not even going to know how to achieve it!). But I remember when in the late 80s, already under the so-called glasnost, I asked my grandfather, who went through the Second World War (he fought first in the infantry, then as an artilleryman, not the NKVD), how life was under Stalin. He replied "It was hard life, it was a terrible time." And he did not tell in detail. He did not believe that it was possible to talk about him (Stalin) like this, calmly and without concealment. And when I read him the newspapers (he did not see well), I kept repeating that it couldn’t be so that everyone would write like that openly. He said that one must wait for trouble, because all this "publicity" will not lead to good. As he looked into the water ...
  25. i.xxx-1971
    i.xxx-1971 16 December 2013 15: 03
    +5
    Tupolev looked after Beria rather than Stalin. It was Beria who was engaged in breakthrough technologies. So, when Beria reported that the Tu-4 bombs were leaky, as a result of which the Product was subjected to critically low temperatures, Tupolev was instructed to make the bombs airtight. This indication Tupolev was traditionally ignored. Then Beria, a very tactful and restrained person who turned to the designer solely by his first name and patronymic, wrote at the second order: TUPolev - bomb bombs must be airtight!
  26. tchack
    tchack 16 December 2013 15: 32
    +6
    Glory to comrade Stalin !!!
  27. wbigfire
    wbigfire 16 December 2013 15: 51
    -8
    I put a minus to the article. There is a lot of pathos and admiration (superficial?). In short, "don't make yourself an idol."
    1. Valkyrie
      Valkyrie 16 December 2013 16: 10
      +1
      There is a lot of pathos in the speeches of the current "idols", but there is zero sense. And if after more than half a century it becomes clear what is actually true and what is false - even without statistical data, then it is clear who is really an idol and who is just a chatterbox and a liar. And this is not pathos, but simply pride in our great past. For a historical personality who showed the whole world that the Russian people are capable of making the impossible possible when they have a great and bright goal in front of them.
    2. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 16 December 2013 17: 36
      +5
      Quote: wbigfire
      Put article minus

      In vain ...
      Quote: wbigfire
      There is already a lot of pathos and adoration (superficial?).

      That is unlikely.
      And in the context of Stalin, you can add such a fact as one of the clauses of the Soviet-German trade agreement, according to which the USSR undertook to supply Germany (for a fee) iron ore. Ore began to be supplied in accordance with the letter of the contract. But the Germans made a complaint - the iron content in the ore was below 20%. To which the IVS replied: "What questions? Do you have enrichment factories in Germany ...". The percentage of iron was not specified in the contract. And in the USSR by that time there were no enrichment plants ...
      According to A. Tupolev.
      For all his non-talent (and maybe genius), he did not shy away from taking what "lies badly." An example is a competition for a promising strategic bomber, where the famous aircraft designer did not hesitate to exhibit a "militarized" version of the Tu-144, which was directly indicated to him by the military. The "guy" did not hesitate - having carefully examined the projects of competitors (Sukhoi's "weave", Myasishchev's model, which, by that time, the disgraced designer was assembling in the hangar), and using the support and connections in the Council of Ministers, he promoted his Tu-160. And you can recall the start of production of Tu-22, without waiting for the final verdict of the military ...
    3. AlNikolaich
      AlNikolaich 16 December 2013 22: 07
      +1
      Quote: wbigfire
      I put a minus to the article. There is a lot of pathos and admiration (superficial?). In short, "don't make yourself an idol."

      I think the article did not deserve a minus!
      Paphos is a bit much, of course ... But the facts!
      Calling Stalin a genius, a great leader, this is of course pathos! Everything is easier!
      Stalin is an experienced manager who created the powerful personnel system of a huge country and knows how to set the right tasks for it.
      The result of the work of Comrade Stalin, as a manager:
      -Creation of an industrial state;
      - Providing the country's industry with the necessary raw material base;
      -Creation of a qualified personnel reserve for the country;
      -Introduction in society of innovative thinking tuned for the future;
      In short, Stalin took over the country with "Ilyich's lamp", and passed it on to his descendants with an atomic bomb!
      And this, given the terrible war, famine and sabotage, as well as a hostile environment.
      Something like this...
  28. demotivator
    demotivator 16 December 2013 15: 53
    +1
    Quote: i.xxx-1971
    Tupolev looked after Beria rather than Stalin. It was Beria who was engaged in breakthrough technologies. So, when Beria reported that the Tu-4 bombs were leaky, as a result of which the Product was subjected to critically low temperatures, Tupolev was instructed to make the bombs airtight. This indication Tupolev was traditionally ignored. Then Beria, a very tactful and restrained person who turned to the designer solely by his first name and patronymic, wrote at the second order: TUPolev - bomb bombs must be airtight!

    This example once again confirms the assertion that a lot of superfluous things were hung on Beria, as well as on Stalin, something that was not really there. As you can see, Beria correctly pointed out to Tupolev important flaws in the design of the aircraft, he understood it, and eliminated the flaws. The usual working situation for creative people engaged in one common thing - serving the homeland.
  29. The comment was deleted.
  30. pvv113
    pvv113 16 December 2013 16: 11
    +6
    For 25 years of freedom to blame our past, they came up with the nickname Stalin, Stalin, and this exhausted their entire creative supply.
    S.Ya. Marshak wrote a cool poem "Not so" about such critics who themselves have not done anything useful, and do not know how, but are engaged in throwing mud at those who have achieved something. As exactly noted. http://www.world-art.ru/lyric/lyric.php?id=4357 hi
  31. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 16 December 2013 16: 22
    +2
    How? How did Stalin do this? Why did he do this to people? I don’t think I’ll say anything revolutionary new ... Firstly, he himself was a man of great knowledge, who tirelessly replenished (someone reminds me of this ... oh yes! Ivan the Terrible, aha ... which is characteristic - both were busy with nothing nibut and the management of a huge power. but the question - why not read? they were not asked. because they tirelessly read, studied, studied, studied ...), and secondly, he well understood the basic condition under which smart people will reach the greatest heights.
    All his life, Stalin crushed fools. Repression. Thieves ... and fools! Those who wish can easily understand - under Stalin, fools were caught everywhere. Stupidity at the very top was especially persecuted. The result was completely predictable. Man does what promotes him in life. If it is mind, talent, work, it develops them. So dizzy from great things. But what if stealing is enough to advance in life? To be someone's relative? Dexterously rub in, grab and run away? If to grab a piece above all skills - the ability to share correctly? Well then...
    The highest and highest authority may not control anything at all. Her job is to set standards of behavior and management! Had the highest authorities now dealt exclusively with catching and sanitizing - a wide-body aircraft, not seen anywhere else in the world, would be ready in two years. Yes, and we would have healed differently, and literally in a year everything would have changed so, just do not know! Wherever there ... we are still "not 37 years old." We steal, we net, we are not responsible for anything. No, not 37 with us. Not 37 at all ...
  32. leks
    leks 16 December 2013 17: 15
    +1
    Quote: Babon
    Here in the West, and in the East there were many tyrannical rulers and they ruined many lives, there are even more Stalin, and somehow they idolize them for achievements in front of the country.

    In the west, Ivan the Terrible is considered a bloody king, while they somehow do not remember that in those days their kings destroyed tens of times more people than our king, Grozny, in comparison with their kings, a child.
  33. leks
    leks 16 December 2013 17: 31
    0
    Quote: full zero
    Yes, a tyrant and despot of millions of ruined lives, but at the same time Stalin was building an economy (unlike Lenin who destroyed it), albeit an ugly one based on slave labor, but tell me who could have built it at that time? when the best minds either emigrated or were destroyed? -who remained illiterate peasants and no one else! Personality cannot be assessed unambiguously, otherwise then the settlers of the "wild west" building railways are completely murderers (who destroyed the buffalo and thus the indigenous population of the states) ... well, and Peter the first, who built Russia on bones? .. PS, I'm not a Stalinist, but one must really look at and evaluate such a person in history.

    I don’t understand why someone wants to say that he’s wrong, justify his minuses !?
  34. Not hearing
    Not hearing 16 December 2013 18: 32
    +4
    There was absolutely no difficult choice between the T34 and T35 at the end of the thirties, as the author writes. Firstly, these are cars of different classes, one T34 is medium, another T35 is heavy and, accordingly, their tasks are also different. Secondly, the T34 appeared in 1939, and the T35 was seven years earlier in 1932 and by the year 39 was already noticeably outdated. Moreover, all the leading tank-building powers suffered from the enthusiasm for the multi-turret tank concept, but not all launched such tanks into serial production. Thirdly, in 1939, three heavy tanks were designed and tested: SMK and T100 - these are multi-tower tanks and single-tower KV1. As a result of tests, including military ones on the Karelian Isthmus, the choice was made in favor of KV1.
  35. daem00n
    daem00n 16 December 2013 18: 53
    0
    Quote: leks
    And you read about collectivization in the 30s in the USSR and what kind of victims we had or about the famine in the 20s in those years a lot of people died of starvation thanks to the progressive policy of the Bolsheviks !!!!

    Now everyone is smart to criticize the 30s, but if you are returned to that country and its condition ... I understand it this way - there was a choice either or it was made the only right one at that time, thanks to which I and you are including were able to be born, receive a FREE (not the worst education), stable work and all other benefits that we use so far. Otherwise, 70% of the country would remain illiterate and clogged and 30% would go to maybach.
    According to the article, Tupolev could design a new aircraft from scratch, but could not build it, thanks to TU-4, industries and plants appeared that were able to ensure the implementation of TU-95 in such a short time.
    1. leks
      leks 16 December 2013 20: 18
      -2
      Quote: daem00n
      Quote: leks
      And you read about collectivization in the 30s in the USSR and what kind of victims we had or about the famine in the 20s in those years a lot of people died of starvation thanks to the progressive policy of the Bolsheviks !!!!

      Now everyone is smart to criticize the 30s, but if you are returned to that country and its condition ... I understand it this way - there was a choice either or it was made the only right one at that time, thanks to which I and you are including were able to be born, receive a FREE (not the worst education), stable work and all other benefits that we use so far. Otherwise, 70% of the country would remain illiterate and clogged and 30% would go to maybach.
      According to the article, Tupolev could design a new aircraft from scratch, but could not build it, thanks to TU-4, industries and plants appeared that were able to ensure the implementation of TU-95 in such a short time.

      There is always a respected choice, the Bolsheviks themselves drove the country into such a hole that Stalin had to pull it out in this way, each of us looks at those years differently as they say "Winners write history" And as for my and your birth, I think your remark is inappropriate, since our birth was predetermined by the chain and sequence of events and accidents thanks to which we were born. It is pointless to argue about the role of the Bolsheviks of Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, since both sides will have their own arguments in favor of one event or another.
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 17 December 2013 15: 31
        0
        The Bolsheviks drove? It would be something to drive. The empire decayed completely for 20-30 before the revolution.
  36. nod739
    nod739 16 December 2013 18: 58
    +1
    Quote: makarov
    But this does not in any way relieve Stalin of responsibility in the deaths of millions of innocent people whose bones are scattered in the vast expanses of the North ... tens of millions of Soviet families fell victim to the reign of Ghouls.


    Yes, even with a finger to the sky:
    the economy grew like mushrooms, oil in exports was less than 10%
    the population was constantly growing, not like the last 25 years of democracy that we have what you have, and all of our neighbors
    - the economy, if it is creeping, is then a fraction of a percent (although computers, energy saving, etc. should be better), the people-population has gone down by a couple of tens of millions !!!! but it’s not like war !!!! but how many were not born? and accordingly how much has not been done !!!
    once I read the light, the new world, Solzhenitsyn, oh this scoundrel Stalin !!!, and now I understand more and more that everything is diametrically the opposite !!!!
    yes there are mistakes, it’s overdone, in places it’s not sickly, but it’s not mistaken, the one who does nothing,
    but what about the rest? debit will be reduced to credit,
    The Tu-95 is still in service, and instead of the East, the Union, although the latter under Khrushchev had already been completed, but the school was laid down by Stalin, and the Baikonur was built. at 53 came and at 57 the satellite was already picking from orbit

    when did a lot of people descend? - so during the 90s-00s more fell ill and were not born.

    and how much money from the country is taken away annually ??? Yes, for 10 years at least the entire US national debt,
    and this is not enough for them.
    I do not use the subjunctive mood, but. I can’t help it — for a long time Westerners would have bent with their democratization, LGBT and the principle of profit, if we had our own modern Stalin and our country would work. strengthened, and did everything for the people, and not for the elect
  37. Grif
    Grif 16 December 2013 19: 42
    +1
    Glory to Comrade Stalin!
  38. leks
    leks 16 December 2013 20: 24
    -4
    Quote: nod739
    Quote: makarov
    But this does not in any way relieve Stalin of responsibility in the deaths of millions of innocent people whose bones are scattered in the vast expanses of the North ... tens of millions of Soviet families fell victim to the reign of Ghouls.


    Yes, even with a finger to the sky:
    the economy grew like mushrooms, oil in exports was less than 10%
    the population was constantly growing, not like the last 25 years of democracy that we have what you have, and all of our neighbors
    - the economy, if it is creeping, is then a fraction of a percent (although computers, energy saving, etc. should be better), the people-population has gone down by a couple of tens of millions !!!! but it’s not like war !!!! but how many were not born? and accordingly how much has not been done !!!
    once I read the light, the new world, Solzhenitsyn, oh this scoundrel Stalin !!!, and now I understand more and more that everything is diametrically the opposite !!!!
    yes there are mistakes, it’s overdone, in places it’s not sickly, but it’s not mistaken, the one who does nothing,
    but what about the rest? debit will be reduced to credit,
    The Tu-95 is still in service, and instead of the East, the Union, although the latter under Khrushchev had already been completed, but the school was laid down by Stalin, and the Baikonur was built. at 53 came and at 57 the satellite was already picking from orbit

    when did a lot of people descend? - so during the 90s-00s more fell ill and were not born.

    and how much money from the country is taken away annually ??? Yes, for 10 years at least the entire US national debt,
    and this is not enough for them.
    I do not use the subjunctive mood, but. I can’t help it — for a long time Westerners would have bent with their democratization, LGBT and the principle of profit, if we had our own modern Stalin and our country would work. strengthened, and did everything for the people, and not for the elect

    And you sit down and look on the Internet how much goodness was taken out of the country from 1917 to the arrival of Stalin and how many innocently ruined souls were from 1917 to 1950. Or, as Comrade Stalin said, "one death is a tragedy, a million deaths are statistics."
    1. Proud.
      Proud. 16 December 2013 21: 36
      +1
      Quote: leks
      "one death is a tragedy, a million deaths are statistics"
      Or as comrade I.V. Stalin did NOT say. This paraphrased quote was attributed to him. This is how the manipulation of consciousness occurs.
      1. ImPerts
        ImPerts 16 December 2013 22: 11
        +1
        Quote: Be proud.
        one death is a tragedy, a million deaths are statistics

        "The death of one person is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic" This phrase also does not belong to Stalin. This is a phrase from Remarque's novel "The Black Obelisk" (1956): "But, apparently, it always happens this way: the death of one person is death, and the death of two million is only statistics" [1] Earlier, a similar phrase appeared in Tucholsky's essay "Französischer Witz "(1932): Darauf sagt ein Diplomat vom Quai d'Orsay:" Der Krieg? Ich kann das nicht so schrecklich finden! Der Tod eines Menschen: das ist eine Katastrophe. Hunderttausend Tote: das ist eine Statistik! "
        http://clubs.ya.ru/4611686018427428008/replies.xml?item_no=9020
        1. Proud.
          Proud. 16 December 2013 23: 41
          0
          Quote: ImPerts
          This phrase also does not belong to Stalin.
          I know where this phrase comes from. I did not claim that this is a quote from Stalin. I wrote: ".. Or as J.V. Stalin did NOT say ..". Comrade Stalin is credited with the following phrase: "There is a person - there is
          problem, no man, no problem. "In fact, the writer Rybakov inserted it into Stalin's mouth in" Children of the Arbat ".
          1. ImPerts
            ImPerts 17 December 2013 05: 10
            0
            This is me for others who have already planted millions and know about the billion executed personally ...
  39. baytygan
    baytygan 16 December 2013 20: 32
    +5
    how many Georgians crap Russia-Shevardnadze and Saakashvili, Svanidze and Akunin, but for the two great patriots of Stalin and Beria, thank you very much, Georgia!
  40. Basilevs
    Basilevs 16 December 2013 20: 33
    +5
    Quote: leks
    And you sit down and look on the Internet how much good was taken out of the country from 1917 until the arrival of Stalin, and how many innocent ruined souls were from 1917 to 1950


    Have you ever imagined yourself in the place of Stalin? What and how would YOU personally do with the country at that time? In what ways and where would you take money for development? I can’t imagine in a nightmare. Immense difficulties, the problem was solved. How? Probably not the worst way. The happiness that it was not Leib Bronstein, or Bukharin, who stood at the helm. Then they would have a sip ...
  41. daem00n
    daem00n 16 December 2013 20: 34
    0
    Quote: leks
    It is pointless to argue about the role of the Bolsheviks of Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, since both sides will have their own arguments in favor of this or that event.

    I agree.
    Quote: leks
    There is always a respected choice, the Bolsheviks themselves drove the country into such a hole that Stalin had to pull it out in this way, each of us looks at those years differently as they say, "The Winners write history"

    There were, there are, There are times when there is no choice, it is necessary to proceed from the real situation - the fact that the Bolsheviks actually provoked the Civil War is a fact, but in that situation there was no choice from either the Bolsheviks or the Provisional Government and it is not known what would be better. I do not consider Tsarist Power at all because of the lack of such by the year 17. The Bolsheviks simply picked up power that nobody needed, but how did they use it?
    Quote: leks
    pointless to argue
    - for each of us there will be different results.
  42. demotivator
    demotivator 16 December 2013 21: 15
    +1
    In order to understand what Stalin was like, it would be nice to remember what leader of the state of Russia before him was Emperor Nicholas II. His entire service to Russia was reduced to the fact that he did his best to shift his responsibilities to someone else. Nicholas demanded one thing - not to be disturbed or upset. Under him, Russia was led by advisers from prime ministers to Grishka Rasputin. And the king was glad of it. The advisers dragged him into two wars, in which Nicholas got involved, completely not interested in either state or military affairs. After all, the initiator of the First World War, in fact, was Russia. It was she who first announced the mobilization and refused to stop it at the request of Germany. Then Germany declared war on Russia and herself began mobilization. In response, Russia's allies, France and England declared war on Germany. There was a terrible war for Russia, and in the rear they stole everything that anyone could. Well, at least the king would hang a dozen thieves to others for wit! But Nicholas II was "kind." On the fronts, losses reached 200-300 thousand people a month due to a shortage of shells, and private capital inflated prices for them twice or three times against state-owned factories. At a state-owned factory, 122-mm shrapnel cost 15 rubles, and private traders demanded 35 for it. The head of the GAU, General Manikovsky, tried to squeeze the robbers, but the tsar immediately called him.
    “Nicholas II: They complain about you, that you restrict the initiative of society in supplying the army.
    Manikovsky: Your Majesty, they already profit from the supply by 300%, and there were times when they received even more than 1000% of the profits.
    Nicholas II: Well, let them profit, if only they would not steal.
    Manikovsky: Your Majesty, but this is worse than theft, this is open robbery.
    Nicholas II: Still, there is no need to annoy public opinion. ”
    1. leks
      leks 16 December 2013 21: 40
      -1
      This is how they distort history, Russia became the initiator of the First World War. From the course of history. After the murder in Serbia of the heir to the Austrian throne, Franz Ferdinand.
      A few days later, the Austrian government prepared an ultimatum for Serbia. The points of this ultimatum violated the sovereignty of the Slavic state. The Serbs were ready to satisfy the requirements of the Austrians only partially. Then, Austria declared war on Serbia. The First World War began on July 28, 1914.
      The situation has escalated to the limit. Much in those days depended on the ability of diplomats to carry out their work efficiently. Unfortunately, some forces did not want peace. Nicholas II asked William, Chancellor of Germany to curb the obstinate ally. The chancellor did not want to. Then mobilization was declared in the Russian Empire. The German ambassador demanded to stop her. The Russian ministers categorically refused. The abolition of mobilization threatened serious problems for the Russian Empire in the event of the outbreak of war, for the Russian army would not have time to take the positions necessary for a productive war. On August 1, 1914, Germany declared war on the Russian Empire. So the First World War began for Russia. On the third and fourth of August, France and England entered the war.
      1. Basilevs
        Basilevs 18 December 2013 11: 07
        0
        Quote: leks
        A few days later, the Austrian government prepared an ultimatum for Serbia. The points of this ultimatum violated the sovereignty of the Slavic state. The Serbs were ready to satisfy the requirements of the Austrians only partially. Then, Austria declared war on Serbia. The First World War began on July 28, 1914.

        "... Until now, many and willingly write about the ultimatum presented by the Austrians to Serbia after the assassination of the archduke. Some say that this ultimatum was rejected because the demands contained there were incredibly humiliating for a sovereign state. Others - that the ultimatum was generally Serbia. adopted, with the exception of the most humiliating, the most unacceptable clause. In the old days, there were even cynical judgments: “Austria-Hungary made demands on Serbia that meant direct intervention of Austria in the internal affairs of Serbia, which led to the loss of Serbia's political independence. Serbia on the advice of Russia took all measures to resolve the conflict, showing extreme compliance. However, at the insistence of Germany on July 28, Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia "(Notes to the memoirs of General Brusilov, Voenizdat, 1983)
        In the latter case, as we see, the concept is completely different: the ultimatum was humiliating, but Serbia nevertheless “showed extreme compliance”, however, the Austrians were attacked anyway, the aggressors were nasty ...
        Tellingly, no one writing on this topic has ever quoted the text of the Austrian ultimatum. At the most, they quoted a single point, which the Serbs nevertheless rejected - and besides, they distorted its essence! They wrote that Austria demanded that Serbia "allow the Austrians to conduct their own investigation on its territory." And this, excuse me, is nonsense! ... "
        Bushkov. Rasputin. shots from the past.
        1. Basilevs
          Basilevs 18 December 2013 11: 17
          0
          "... And I once set myself the task: to find the full text of the ultimatum. After six months of intensive searches, I unearthed it in one of the volumes of the collected works of Academician Tarle, published already in 1958. In his work" Europe in the era of imperialism. 1871- 1919 ”, which, if republished since that time, was in very inconspicuous circulations (if republished at all).
          Even Tarle does not have an authentic text, only a retelling, but a more detailed one, that is, what we need. So!
          “This ultimatum demanded that the Serbian government formally condemn all propaganda against Austria in Serbia, condemn all Serbian officials and officers who participated in this propaganda (judging by the construction of the phrase, we are in no way talking about a court condemnation, rather a“ moral condemnation ” , statements that it, the Serbian government, does not approve and reject any idea of ​​any interference in the fate of the inhabitants of any part of the Austro-Hungarian territory.All this is committed by the Serbian king in an order for the Serbian army and printed in the official organ of the Serbian army , as well as in the body of the Serbian government “on the first page.” In addition, the Serbian government is obligated to ban all publications hostile to Austria-Hungary or “the general direction of which is against the territorial integrity of Austria”; immediately close the People’s Defense society and confiscate its funds propaganda and do the same with all the other hostile Austro-Weng by societies: immediately remove all those teachers who campaign against Austria: eradicate, in addition, in the field of education everything that “can serve” propaganda against Austria; remove from the military service and from the administration all the officers and officials whose names the Austro-Hungarian government will indicate to the Serbian; start a judicial investigation of all circumstances concerning the participants in the conspiracy, which Franz Ferdinand fell victim to, and “DELEGATES FROM THE AUSTRIAN-HUNGARIAN GOVERNMENT WILL TAKE PART IN THE RESEARCH” (Tarle marked these words in italics, and I in capital letters); arrest Major Tankovich and Tsyganovich (These two were the direct executors of the Black Hand, the curators of the terrorists); to punish customs officials who helped the killers of the Archduke cross the border; to provide explanations regarding the “unacceptable” words of the highest Serbian officials regarding the Sarajevo murder. ”

          Such is the ultimatum. It may seem cool to some, but one should not forget that Serbia actually organized a hell of a lot of subversive organizations on Austrian territory, not only campaigning in words, but also organizing terrorist acts. That the anti-Austrian propaganda in Serbia itself was carried out in the open and lashed out beyond any conceivable limits. That Bosnia and Herzegovina (okay, okay, let them be captured by Austria! Although this is certainly not the case) never belonged to Serbia, and the Serbs did not have not only a legal, but also a purely moral right to cover these areas with a dense network of their residencies, to circulate subversive literature and send weapons. That the aforementioned customs officials (and border guards) really helped the terrorists to cross the border ... ... "Ibid.
          1. Basilevs
            Basilevs 18 December 2013 11: 20
            0
            “... I remind you: Serbia accepted all the conditions of the ultimatum - except for the item on“ delegates. ”Everyone has the right to have their own opinion, but personally it seems to me that the requirement to remove officers and officials from military service and administration according to the attached list is even much more humiliating for sovereignty than the arrival of "delegates" to participate in the investigation. Seriously, much more humiliating.
            Nevertheless, Serbia accepted these conditions: it was ready to fire officers with civilian officials, everyone whom the Austrians would show, teachers to be fired, and in the field of education all anti-Austrian propaganda was uprooted, and everything else was ready to fulfill ... Everything, except for the paragraph on "Delegates."
            Where does such stubbornness come from in a question that is generally secondary?
            And the fact is, the catch is that the participation of observers from Austria would absolutely show: high-ranking officials from the Serbian secret military junta were actually involved in the attempt. But Serbia’s affairs would become very bad. Roughly speaking, they would have poked her face in front of the whole world in her own.
            And nowhere to go - one hundred percent to blame ... "

            Ibid.
            I do not affirm the unequivocal correctness and truthfulness of the statements, but the material is very interesting and informative.
    2. Basilevs
      Basilevs 16 December 2013 21: 53
      +3
      And for what is a person minus? For poor Nikolenka?
      Add:
      “... The famous Russian military theorist Dragomirov left a murderous statement about Nicholas II:“ Sitting on the throne is good, but STANDING at the head of Russia. ”The Minister of Foreign Affairs NP Durnovo believed that Nikolai“ has a secondary education of a Guards colonel of a good family ", Which is not enough for a man at the head of the empire ... The famous lawyer Koni is no less categorical:" His view of himself as the providential anointed of God sometimes caused in him tides of such self-confidence that he put all advice and warnings to nothing those few honest people who were still found in his entourage. ”He also wrote about the king:“ Cowardice and betrayal passed through his whole life, through his entire reign, and in this, and not in a lack of intelligence and will, one must look for some of the reasons for how both ended for him. "This was written a year before the execution of the royal family in Yekaterinburg. Not a lack of intelligence, but" lack of heart and the lack of self-esteem, - wrote Koni, - as a result of which, amid the humiliation and misfortune of all those close to him, he continues to drag out his miserable life, unable to die with honor.
      British Prime Minister Lloyd George is no less categorical: the Russian Empire was “an ark that was completely lacking in seaworthiness. Its entire skeleton was rotten, and the crew was no better. The captain was only suitable for a pleasure yacht in calm waters, and the navigator was chosen by his wife, who was relaxing on a couch in the cabin. " The Englishman described Nicholas as "a crown without a head ... the end was tragic, but the country cannot be held responsible for this tragedy in any case." ... Stolypin once said: "No one can take away from the Russian sovereign the sacred right and duty to save the power entrusted to him by God in the days of difficult trials." But the point is that Nikolai himself, voluntarily, relieved himself of this right. "I renounced, as I surrendered a company ..." "... On April 10, 1917, there was a cold semi-official response from the British Foreign Ministry to Kerensky, who was trying to" fuse "the tsar with his family on the shores of Albion:" His Majesty's government does not insist on the invitation of the royal family "..."
  43. vm68dm
    vm68dm 16 December 2013 22: 03
    0
    Comrade Stalin also had backup options. hi
  44. nod739
    nod739 16 December 2013 23: 35
    +1
    Quote: Be proud.
    Quote: cdrt
    Thus, by the end of the century, Russia came in a state comparable to the beginning of the century, but with large-scale losses in human potential (both quantitatively, and what is more important, and qualitatively). I do not know where these quotes come from, but if possible, in numbers ( about the causes of losses too). And what about "quality" .. Whose conclusions are these?


    and your penny:
    after the war it is known that the economy was constantly growing. and even by the mid-80s, there was growth, not big but there was
    where there was a decline in 88-89, well, about 90 it’s clear
    but now for the most part indicators (the most universal is the generation of electricity), the Russian Federation has caught up and has stepped over the level of 90-91, a kind of peak or almost peak.
    Of course, this primarily applies to raw materials, semi-finished products. and it doesn’t apply for example to tractors and other things .... but the trend is clear, and there is no limit to perfection
  45. nod739
    nod739 16 December 2013 23: 46
    +1
    Quote: leks
    from the country from 1917 until the arrival of Stalin, and how many innocent ruined souls were from 1917 to 1950.


    I understand what you mean, I agree. but partially

    I just want to remind you, but by whom and for what purpose is the revolution arranged? and civil war, and intervention? and indeed the 19th century?
    did we climb to them? they wanted to weaken us and did it by all means - war 5th column, liberals ...

    therefore, all the troubles of the beginning of the century are not due to the fact that we are Russia-armless, but because we are RUSSIA- a strong country that the West does not need.

    ... and by the way in the 90s, too many goods were taken out. one unique equipment, machine tools. not to mention brains (I recently read Pentium 3 recently (in '98) - the architecture is mostly taken from the Soviet Elbrus processor 91 years old !! - our specialist went to intel)
    a lot of it was exported all for just so-someone in your pocket,
    and the young Soviet government, for example, exported gold in exchange for equipment machines and technologies


    and second:
    The death of one person is a tragedy, the death of millions - statistics
    - This is not Stalin said. this after him is a slightly altered phrase from Remarque’s novel “The Black Obelisk” (1956): “But, apparently, it always happens this way: the death of one person is death, and the death of two million is just statistics”
  46. freedom2013
    freedom2013 16 December 2013 23: 52
    0
    Quote: Denis
    A copy aircraft, called the Tu-4, went into production in the 47, and Tupolev was eventually forced to admit Stalin was right
    However, Tupolev himself said that it was easier to construct a new
    everything is complicated

    What Tupolev was proposing at that time was not suitable for B-29. And creating the Tu-4 had to master such technologies that allowed him to further create the Tu-95 masterpiece.
  47. chenia
    chenia 16 December 2013 23: 59
    0
    Quote: leks
    And you sit down and look on the Internet how much goodness was taken out of the country from 1917 to the arrival of Stalin and how many innocently ruined souls were from 1917 to 1950. Or, as Comrade Stalin said, "one death is a tragedy, a million deaths are statistics."

    Quote: chenia


    The demographic losses of the Soviet Socialist Republic in 1918-1959 were 70 million people, where 39 million WWII (12 million unborn, 27 million loss of real people (but 2-4 million of them is emigration).

    The remaining 32 million (8 mln. - unborn, 5 mln. Emigration after the Civil, 8,5 mln. Hispanic (5% of the population.


    further 10-11mln. Red and white terror, civil war, all famines (and famine 47g.) And repression, and typhoid, etc.


    From here, Stalin's famines and repressions took no more than 7 ml. person. Yes, a lot, but the country survived and became a superpower.

    Look at present-day Russia (I am silent about Ukraine in general), how many people are crying, both the noose and the bullet.

    The result of their activities is the loss of the same 70 mln. People with complete devastation and uncertain prospects (and all elements of pride are from the Soviet era).
  48. George
    George 17 December 2013 00: 01
    0
    My grandfather told me one story, unfortunately the characters (namely the designers of the aircraft) were forgotten, but the point was that Vissarionovich invited the young designer with his drawings of the new aircraft to himself, and at the same time called for another designer.
    The plane was good, but the competitor complained:
    “Something I don't like about his nose,” he said.
    “Not the nose, but the fuselage,” the leader corrected.
    I can’t vouch for accuracy, I told him from memory, if there are those who know this story in detail, let them correct it.
  49. Drlivsi
    Drlivsi 17 December 2013 01: 12
    +1
    And genetics - pseudoscience and Chizhevsky ... generally ended badly.
    Although for some reason, for the entire learned people - Chizhevsky - genius and genetics - science.
  50. Apologet insane
    Apologet insane 17 December 2013 07: 58
    -1
    "And Stalin pierces him with his muscular gaze ..." Ahaha, the author of Stalinism is still the same =) Yeah, pathetic sadists and maniacs in history will always have fans, even Chikatila and Breivik have fans =)