Military Review

Free submarines for the Israeli Navy

106



- Monya, let's say you have six apples, half of which you gave to Abram. How many apples do you have left?
- Five and a half.


Paraphrasing the ancient Jewish wisdom (“To buy watches for a million is not a feat, the feat of being able to sell them”), we note that buying military equipment abroad is not considered a great achievement. Achievement - when some of the best submarines in the world are bought on extremely favorable terms: for half of their market value, or even completely free of charge, in the form of returning historical debt for the Holocaust and compensation for the criminal military-technical cooperation of Germany and Iraq at the end of 1980 that, in the opinion of the citizens of Israel, could harm their country.

The balance is the following - in the period 1998-2000. The Israeli Navy adopted three German-built submarines: INS Dolphin and INS Leviathan - their construction was fully funded by the German government; INS Tekumah - the cost of building this boat was divided in equal parts between Germany and Israel.

In 2010, a new round of cooperation between the Israeli Navy and Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft AG began. The following three boats are planned for construction: INS Tannin, INS Rahav and another submarine, whose name has not yet been announced.

Three new boats - an upgraded version of the INS Dolphin with an air-free GEM on hydrogen fuel cells. Modern technologies allow for 2-3 weeks to do without surfacing to the surface. With the right tactical use, the combat qualities of such submarines are identical to nuclear-powered ships - and in some important parameters (secrecy) even surpass them. Smaller size and power, the absence of thundering turbines and itchy pumps of the reactor coolant, a propulsion system operating without explosions and vibrations, giving a minimal thermal footprint — a non-nuclear submarine merges with the natural background of the ocean, becoming a deadly enemy. As shown by the results of the latest NATO exercises, in the duel situation, naval submarines in most cases are the first to detect nuclear submarines and strike first.


Dolphin type submarine device (2 sub-series). Underwater displacement - 2300 tons. Immersion depth - 200 meters. The submerged speed is up to 20 nodes. Crew 40 man.

Equipped with the most modern weapons and electronics. The cost of a German boat of this level in the world arms market reaches 700 million dollars. Israel pays 2 / 3 the cost of their construction, the remaining funds for the construction of boats once again come from the budget of Germany.

It is difficult to say how ethical is the conversation about the ratio of the saved millions and millions of human lives lost during the tragic events of 1939-45. Like the very fact of installing such a “monument” to the victims of Nazism - underwater vehicles created for new killings. Or does the German gift hint at the ancient “Eye for an Eye” law, calling for a fair revenge and provoking an armed conflict between Israel and Germany?

Free submarines for the Israeli Navy

Wrecked cabin of the INS Dakar submarine (formerly Bitansky HMS Totem, 1943), lifted from the depth of 3000 meters. The submarine died on the transition from the UK to Israel in 1968, under unclear circumstances.


No less surprising are reproaches in the criminal collaboration of German firms with Iraq. In fact, Saddam Hussein fought with weapons of Soviet and to a lesser extent French production. Scud missiles that fell on Israel have nothing to do with Germany. This is despite the fact that throughout the 80-ies, the US State Department recognized Iraq as a "friendly regime" - as opposed to religious fanatics from Tehran. There are more questions than answers, so I suggest turning to the technical side of the question.

So, a diesel-electric submarine of the Dolphin type.
It is a development of well-known submarines "Type 209" - high-quality German equipment, which is in service with 13 countries of the world (all Germans built a boat of this type for export 61)! An option for the Israeli Navy combines a number of elements of a new generation of submarines "Type 212", while it is somewhat shorter than the original design: the length of the Dolphin is only 57 meters with a maximum body width of about 7 meters. The boat looks unnecessarily “oklady” against the background of modern nuclear ships (for comparison, the Virginia-type PLA has a hull length of 115 meters with a width of 10 meters), but the “shorty” has the advantage of better handling and maneuverability.

The entire body of the submarine is permeated with nerve fibers and sensors of the combat information system STN Atlas ISUS 90-55. Not so much is known about this development by German specialists - for example, in 2000, during the tender for the supply of combat information systems for Collins-type submarines of the Australian Navy, the Australians conducted comparative tests of the German PIUS (on board the Dolphin) and the American BIUS Rayteon CSS Mk.2 (aboard the Los Angeles-type USS Montpelier PLA). The verdict of the experts was unequivocal - the German system is far superior to the American one in terms of classification and recognition of a large number of sonar contacts. It is able to allocate more useful information and is not prone to failures and “freeze” at the most inappropriate time. In addition, it is ideally compatible with non-nuclear submarines. Alas, the Australians were forced to sacrifice the interests of their sailors - the tender was canceled. The new program, adopted under pressure from the United States, envisaged the development of a CSS on the basis of CSS Mk.2.


Submarine type "Gal". A series of three British-built submarines 1976-77. Currently decommissioned.

But back to the Israeli "Dolphin". In addition to the high-tech BIUS STN Atlas ISUS 90-55, several other detection systems of own and foreign production are installed on board, including:

- 4CH (V) 2 Timnex radar radiation detector, developed by Elbit Systems Corporation (Haifa), capable of tracking directions to enemy radar with an accuracy of 1,4 °;

- Centimeter radar for searching for surface targets (developed by the Israeli company ELTA Systems);

- Hydroacoustic station CSU 90 in nose cone, PRS-3 noise-finding device and FAS-3 sonar with side-view antenna (supplier of all systems - German company Atlas Elektronik);

- two periscopes for searching and attacking targets set by the American company Kollmorgen.

Among other features of the Israeli Navy submarines - the most powerful composition of weapons. Ten torpedo tubes: six mm 533 caliber and four mm 650 caliber! Ammunition - 16 torpedoes, mines and cruise missiles. There is an opportunity for fixing on the case of containers with diving equipment and mini-bathyscaphes.

TA caliber 650 mm has not recently been used anywhere except in the USSR Navy submarines for launching “long torpedoes” and long-range anti-submarine missiles with a special warhead. Something similar is available on three American C-Wolfs - these submarines use a scheme with a self-made torpedo, which is why the TA caliber was increased to 660 mm (standard 533 mm ammunition is used). But how will Israel surprise us?

The authoritative reference book Jane's Fighting Ships indicates that large-caliber TAs are used as sluice chambers for exiting combat swimmers, as well as in the form of compartments for storing special equipment.

There is also evidence that Israeli boats are equipped with Popeye Turbo cruise missiles, an ammunition created on the basis of an air-to-surface Popeye missile with an increased launch range of up to 1500 km and the possibility of equipping nuclear warheads. In 2000, the United States refused to provide Israel with Tomahawk cruise missiles, citing an international agreement banning the export of cruise missiles and UAVs capable of carrying a payload of 500 kg over a range of over 300 km. The Israeli Navy had to urgently develop its own replacement - impromptu based on aviation missiles, which, alas, did not fit into the dimensions of a standard 533-mm torpedo tube. The test launch of such ammunition from a submarine of the Israeli Navy in the Indian Ocean was recently recorded by the intelligence of the U.S. Navy. The Germans themselves express justifiable fears about this - there is an opinion about the prohibition of the sale of such equipment to Israel, because this can lead to irreversible and frightening consequences. But now it’s too late to discuss anything - five of the six ordered boats have already been transferred to Israel (three in service, two are at the final stage of construction and retrofitting, transfer the fleet scheduled for 2014).

The Israelis themselves are moving away from a direct answer, explaining that launch glasses are inserted inside 650-mm TA - the system is used to launch conventional Sub-Harpoon anti-ship missiles (this is with six standard TA caliber 533 mm!).

Why is Israel submarine fleet?

The journalist who visited aboard the Dolphin shares delighted impressions of modern interiors of compartments and two dozen plasma panels in the boat's CPU, which displays all the necessary information: data from hydroacoustic stations and inertial navigation systems, parameters and readiness of weapons, compartments, information about stocks of fuel, air and fresh water - everything that officers of the ship need to know.



“Immersion! Immersion! ”- the order of Commander M., the speaker of the speakerphone system, is broadcast in the compartments. The helmsman gives away the steering wheel - and the boat obediently falls to the depth. Moving in 100 meters below the surface of the Mediterranean, the crew proceeds to localize the resulting "fire" in the engine room. Having successfully coped with the "fire", the boat floats to the periscope depth - commander M. raises the periscope and inspects the horizon: everything is clear! The boat does not pose a danger to shipping in the area of ​​the port of Haifa. Moving on ... Here, a couple of dozen kilometers from the coast of Israel, Dolphin fulfills the routine tasks of combat training. Commander M. is pleased with his ship and the competent actions of the crew ...

Jacob Katz, a The Jerusalem Post reporter, has become one of two media representatives who have been aboard Israeli submarines over the past 10 years. The Israelis carefully conceal information about their submarine fleet, leaving foreign researchers to guess at the strategy and tactics of the combat use of the Israeli Navy submarines.

In the meantime ... To help the three "Dolphins" (1 sub-series) hurry even more formidable ships of the 2 sub-series - "Tannin", "Rahav" and the sixth unnamed boat, which will join the ranks of the Navy in 2017. The new boats are longer than the “Dolphin” on 10 meters and are equipped with an air-independent hydrogen fuel cell propulsion system - like the German “Type 212”. Even with the partial co-financing of their construction by Germany, six non-nuclear submarines will become the most expensive system adopted by the Israel Defense Forces.



But why did the country smaller than the Moscow region need such complex, expensive and heavily armed submarines? Did Israel have a threat from the sea?

Among the most gloomy and mystical assumptions is the following: Israeli NNS provide the doctrine of guaranteed retribution in the event of an attack on Israel using weapons of mass destruction. Popeye Turbo missiles with nuclear warheads can reach targets in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Syria, or a troubled Sudan. The autonomy of sailing 8000 miles, coupled with the strategic range of cruise missiles, allows you to keep any country in the Middle East and on the African continent.


Possible route "Riders of the Apocalypse" to the coast of Iran


However, the Israeli submariners are faced with other, more urgent tasks - for example, covert transportation of combat swimmers and sabotage groups to the coast of the enemy. Successful raids using submarines were repeatedly conducted during the Six Day War and the Doomsday War (1973).

The covert observation of the coast and the movements of enemy ships, the adjustment of artillery fire, the setting of minefields, search operations related to the survey of the seabed - the range of tasks for the submarine fleet is enormous.

Finally, the main thing - fighting at sea. The presence of submarines of this level allows Israel to have a strategic advantage over any of the Arab countries: “Dolphins” are able to cut off all communications in the Mediterranean, Red or Arabian Sea, block the enemy coast and tear apart any frigate of the Iranian Navy or Saudi Arabia.

It is reported that due to the heightened tension in relations with Iran and fears around the Iranian nuclear program, Israel constantly holds one of its submarines in a position in the Indian Ocean, ready to deliver a deafening blow to the Iranian military infrastructure. In view of its outstanding combat capabilities, Dolphin-type submarines are identified as the main offensive force of the Israeli Navy.


Through the removed skin of the streamlined hull, cryogenic oxygen tanks and metal hydride tanks are visible





Ins tannin




Based on:
The Jerusalem Post
The Collins Class Submarine Story: Steel, Spies and Spin. Authors: Peter Yule, Derek Woolner
http://www.almanacwhf.ru,
http://www.wikipedia.org,
http://www.reuters.com,
http://www.migdal.ru,
http://www.mignews.com.
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  1. Papakiko
    Papakiko 16 December 2013 09: 13 New
    +4
    Due to its outstanding combat capabilities, Dolphin-class submarines are identified as the main offensive force of the Israeli Navy.
    These are not guardship missiles, it’s true.
    Adjustment of artillery fire.
    Search operations related to the examination of the seabed.

    Fiercely flipped crying already wept.
    Well, okay, at least it’s not written that intelligence and control of airspace. bully
    I was pleased with the picture of swimming around Africa.
    Didn’t there be enough kinds of little schemes about campaigns in the dead sea or did they kill his vokurat? wink
  2. Ptah
    Ptah 16 December 2013 09: 14 New
    13
    Why do Jews need fancy submarines? It is clear for what, any special level of "pimply" will justify you.
    For the same reason why the gift of nuclear weapons is to drive Hezbollons in the Arab quarters. What is incomprehensible ...
    And it’s not how dumb it is to those who inside the boat are matting GERMAN equipment built by those who know almost nothing about the Second World War, but are forced to build such devices on their taxes to the one whose grandfather sat out in a warehouse in Tashkent.
    1. Papakiko
      Papakiko 16 December 2013 09: 22 New
      +6
      Quote: Ptah
      And how dumb it is to those who inside the boat are matting GERMAN equipment

      They still ride on German cars and semi-German airbuses and much more that they use not only in production but also in everyday life.
      Interesting: Is it kosher machinery and equipment or what?
      1. just exp
        just exp 16 December 2013 13: 43 New
        +7
        if you got it for free, then yes, everything on the ball is all kosher.
      2. Pimply
        Pimply 17 December 2013 00: 03 New
        0
        Quote: Papakiko
        They still ride on German cars and semi-German airbuses and much more that they use not only in production but also in everyday life.
        Interesting: Is it kosher machinery and equipment or what?

        In Israel, it is extremely rare to meet a German car. However, you should not have expected anything else.
        1. And Us Rat
          And Us Rat 17 December 2013 00: 46 New
          +2
          Quote: Pimply

          In Israel, it is extremely rare to meet a German car ...

          ?? request??




          1. Pimply
            Pimply 17 December 2013 01: 12 New
            0
            Quote: And Us Rat
            ?? ??

            Except that. 8)
    2. Nayhas
      Nayhas 16 December 2013 09: 23 New
      +5
      Quote: Ptah
      And how dumb it is to those who inside the boat are matting GERMAN equipment

      And what's so "weird"? So the Jews and the Me-109 flew and fought ...
      1. pensioner
        pensioner 16 December 2013 09: 46 New
        +4
        Quote: Nayhas
        So the Jews and the Me-109 flew and fought ...

        Che, and never vomited them, or what?
      2. samoletil18
        samoletil18 16 December 2013 20: 09 New
        0
        Quote: Nayhas
        Quote: Ptah
        And how dumb it is to those who inside the boat are matting GERMAN equipment

        And what's so "weird"? So the Jews and the Me-109 flew and fought ...

        And Pz-IV
      3. atalef
        atalef 17 December 2013 13: 58 New
        0
        Quote: Nayhas
        And how dumb it is to those who inside the boat are matting GERMAN equipment

        What about the Russians? Or Germany only fought with the Jews? How then?
    3. Katsin1
      Katsin1 16 December 2013 13: 03 New
      -12 qualifying.
      Gnus, always when he heard about Tashkent, hit the snout. Look at statistics on Jews Heroes of the Soviet Union, in 4th place in terms of number and in first place in relation to population
      1. just exp
        just exp 16 December 2013 13: 54 New
        20
        for 3 million Jews there were 175 heroes of the Soviet Union, the number of Russians in 1939 was 99 million, 7998 heroes, that is, the population was 33 times more, and the heroes of the Soviet Union were 45 times more, so you tell your stories in another a place, otherwise we already know how cool you are advertising yourself, you and scientists have given you the most to listen (although you haven’t invented anything) and are at war best of all, give you free rein and then tell us that it was you who first flew into space. but there are people who are completely devoid of conscience (although yes, there are many exceptions, I admit, I personally know some, but the exception only proves the rule).
      2. Mairos
        Mairos 16 December 2013 14: 23 New
        +6
        At the expense of Tashkent - this is of course rudeness. But about your "statistics" - drive. )) And the authorities of Germany are simply weak-willed if they force the country and the people, who renounced fascism many years ago and have already paid everyone in full, to pay some reparations, and even on a national scale.
    4. Professor
      Professor 16 December 2013 22: 34 New
      -1
      Quote: Ptah
      whose grandfather sat out in a warehouse in Tashkent.

      Read my friend about "Tashkent storekeepers".
      Zamikhovsky Grigory Efimovich - Sailor of the Black Sea Fleet

      PS
      And your grandfather on whose side fought? But did you fight at all?
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 17 December 2013 00: 01 New
          +5
          Mine was an officer in the torpedo bomber in the Baltic. Cousins ​​- infantry, sergeant, twice wounded. Another - infantry, lieutenant, injured. Grandmother - survived the blockade.

          This is from the category of "incitement to the nation". Which, in general, is a violation of the site rules.
          1. sasska
            sasska 17 December 2013 00: 44 New
            +3
            well, I also have something to be proud of: one grandfather flew IL-2, ended the war as a lieutenant colonel with a full chest of orders and medals; the second - the captain, was also not deprived of awards. both returned with wounds.

            and you did not try to tell the creator of the quoted joke about Art. 282? he would have listened to you.
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 17 December 2013 01: 13 New
              +1
              Quote: sasska
              well, I also have something to be proud of: one grandfather flew IL-2, ended the war as a lieutenant colonel with a full chest of orders and medals; the second - the captain, was also not deprived of awards. both returned with wounds.

              and you did not try to tell the creator of the quoted joke about Art. 282? he would have listened to you.


              Therefore, you behave in the spirit of those with whom your grandfathers fought?
              1. sasska
                sasska 17 December 2013 01: 23 New
                +1
                you cannot force love.

                on this and finish, okay?
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 17 December 2013 01: 56 New
                  0
                  Quote: sasska
                  you cannot force love.

                  on this and finish, okay?

                  Nobody makes you love. Just stop pouring tubs of slops happily lagging behind in development - and no one will say a word to you.
                  1. sasska
                    sasska 17 December 2013 12: 30 New
                    +2
                    About the Holocaust: "Such a separation of the suffering endured by the Jews as a kind of quite special phenomenon hurts the moral feeling"
                    Igor Rostislavovich Shafarevich
                    Soviet and Russian mathematician, philosopher, publicist and public figure, academician of the Russian Academy of Sciences, doctor of physical and mathematical sciences.


                    "Nationalism in me is so natural that no internationalists can ever erase it from me."
                    Dmitri Ivanovich Mendeleev
                    1. Pimply
                      Pimply 17 December 2013 12: 36 New
                      +1
                      Quote: sasska
                      "Nationalism in me is so natural that no internationalists can ever erase it from me."
                      Dmitri Ivanovich Mendeleev

                      Do not take quotes and meanings out of context.
                      Nationalists and Nazis are usually two different things. Then there was no concept of ethnocentrism, for example. One means being proud of one’s nation, the other is hating others. You hate others.
                      1. sasska
                        sasska 17 December 2013 19: 20 New
                        +1
                        oh how everything is running ...
                        you know, I have subordinates and friends, and Estonians, and Ukrainians, and Russians, and Belarusians, whom I hate so much ... I hate it so much ... well, I can’t eat directly!
                        It seems to me that you are confusing the hot with the green. I will explain personally to you: I do not like Jews. I have a rather critical attitude towards modern Israel and freezing money on the theme of your fellow tribesmen who died in that terrible war, which has nothing to do with anti-Semitism. though, the money doesn't smell.
        2. And Us Rat
          And Us Rat 17 December 2013 01: 04 New
          -1
          Quote: sasska
          from the category of anecdotal "Still, where did you see Evgei with a shovel?"

          Emphasis on the word Anecdotal. lol
          And Israel like a holy spirit was built ...

          1. sasska
            sasska 17 December 2013 12: 09 New
            0
            And Israel like a holy spirit was built ...
    5. Pimply
      Pimply 17 December 2013 00: 05 New
      0
      Quote: Ptah
      And it’s not how dumb it is to those who inside the boat are matting GERMAN equipment built by those who know almost nothing about the Second World War, but are forced to build such devices on their taxes to the one whose grandfather sat out in a warehouse in Tashkent.

      Tell me, have you refused anything German in your life?
      The question, dear, is not only in the memory of past generations, but in the survival of the present and future.
      Do you think that for such a region with so many regional opponents, Israel does not need submarines? Funny joker you.
  3. ramsi
    ramsi 16 December 2013 09: 22 New
    +6
    I don’t understand who presses Germany so coolly? Or in the world there is not a single independent politician left
  4. King
    King 16 December 2013 09: 23 New
    +8
    in a word - the Jews and that says it all
  5. ed65b
    ed65b 16 December 2013 09: 31 New
    20
    I read the brochure. Only to the question of how the Jews surprised the answer with nothing, the Germans surprise and the bugs clinging to the body of Germany by all sorts of methods suck their blood. Soon, under the brand name "Holocaust", Adam and Eve will be let down, then the whole world will owe them. He is a Jew and a Jew in Africa.
    1. just exp
      just exp 16 December 2013 13: 57 New
      +1
      and you read about the fact that there is cooperation with Iraq in the 80s, if the Jews felt that it was a danger to them, then this automatically gives them a reason to take everything from the Germans for free, given that Russia and the Arabs from the 60s (and, in fact, earlier) cooperated and armed them, then I represent the volume of their claims to Russia if NATO defeats Russia either.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 17 December 2013 00: 07 New
        0
        Quote: just explo
        and you read about the fact that there is cooperation with Iraq in the 80s, if the Jews felt that it was a danger to them, then this automatically gives them a reason to take everything from the Germans for free, given that Russia and the Arabs from the 60s (and, in fact, earlier) cooperated and armed them, then I represent the volume of their claims against Russia if NATO defeats Russia either

        Russia did not arrange the Holocaust, but saved the Jews.
        And despite the USSR’s help to the Arabs, they don’t forget about the help of the USSR to the Jews and their role in the Second World War in Israel.
        1. sasska
          sasska 17 December 2013 19: 35 New
          0
          in general, Israel, having become a state thanks to J.V. Stalin, quickly "snapped its tail" and - stuck to the Anglo-Saxon camp, now becoming their springboard.
          verily, the dead do not have shame, and money does not smell.
    2. Pimply
      Pimply 17 December 2013 00: 08 New
      0
      Quote: ed65b
      He is a Jew and a Jew in Africa.


      And a fool is a fool in Africa. Anti-Semite and anti-Semite in Africa. Everyone sees what he wants.
      1. sasska
        sasska 17 December 2013 00: 58 New
        +2
        I will quote them to you, nothing?
        On our site you need to behave respectfully to all visitors to the site. No insults to the participants, it is always superfluous. Insulting other visitors is considered one of the most serious violations and is strictly punished by the administration.

        You would also need to refresh your equipment, otherwise you don’t notice your log in your eye.
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 17 December 2013 01: 14 New
          +1
          Quote: sasska
          You would also need to refresh your equipment, otherwise you don’t notice your log in your eye.


          I would recommend that you read the rules not selectively, but as a whole.
  6. mizantrop22
    mizantrop22 16 December 2013 09: 55 New
    +4
    Quote: Papakiko
    Quote: Ptah
    And how dumb it is to those who inside the boat are matting GERMAN equipment

    They still ride on German cars and semi-German airbuses and much more that they use not only in production but also in everyday life.
    Interesting: Is it kosher machinery and equipment or what?


    Well, German cars (especially expensive ones) are many times less than ours and airbuses, as well as any other German technology. So reproach yourself dear.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. atalef
        atalef 16 December 2013 14: 04 New
        +2
        Quote: Papakiko
        So let's pay reparations to Russians in equal proportions with the Israeli

        Well, if we talk about reparations (if you know what it is) - the USSR received at times more.
        If we talk about pensions to prisoners of concentration camps, Russians also received compensation.
        If we talk about cars - Russia is definitely ahead - European cars are not popular with us - Japanese and Korea - much more,
        Well, if we talk about a kind of free weapon, first ask yourself how much of its USSR and Russia have been given all over the world, since 100 is bigger than Germany. What about a loan to Venisuele (4 billion bucks) - where? Gave it. Now, give 2 billion to Egypt. Look at yourself.
        1. just exp
          just exp 16 December 2013 14: 09 New
          +5
          The USSR received only what it was able to take out from Germany, which had already been BATTERED TO THE HOUSES, and what every Russian victim in the war would pay in a century was not the same as now Russia, which was destroyed and lost much more, doesn’t get something from Germany, it’s just it’s in your blood that if you can take something from another, then you will take it, give me just an excuse. against the Germans you found him and will drink their blood until they have a new hitler and send you away.
          1. faraon
            faraon 16 December 2013 17: 18 New
            -3
            And YOU are glad for the German blood that the damned Jews drink. But then we can say that the Russians take it and share it in blood, only that it is deposited in Swiss banks on the accounts of individuals of the party economic elite
            1. just exp
              just exp 16 December 2013 19: 03 New
              +7
              no, I am glad for justice, it’s enough for you to go to heaven on someone else’s hump, and at the same time scratch everyone that you’ve built a Middle Eastern miracle, and in fact, the states only give the army more money than some countries have an annual budget (Moldova’s budget of 1 billion dollars for the whole year, for everything, help from the states was only 3 billion for you from the states), then the Germans will lay out the sums with a bunch of zeros for the Holocaust, then they will give the products, why not live like that, but just do not poke others with what they say you fucked statesmen, in fact being parasites.
              1. atalef
                atalef 16 December 2013 22: 42 New
                -1
                Quote: just explo
                no, I am glad for justice, it’s enough for you to go to paradise on someone else’s hump, and at the same time scratch everyone that you built a Middle Eastern miracle, and in fact, the states only give the army more money than some countries have an annual budget (budget of Moldova 1 billion dollars for the whole year, for everything, helping you from the states to the army alone was 3 billion)

                Really. where's the justice . Israel's annual budget is 108 billion bucks-- this is 108 Moldova.
                We would probably give you 3 per annum of your budget, it’s only 2% of ours, but still I’ll offer you to work, not cry.
                1. Rider
                  Rider 16 December 2013 23: 04 New
                  +4
                  Quote: atalef
                  We would probably give you 3 per annum of your budget

                  word surely in your post - the main thing.

                  when did Israel give something to someone?

                  laughing
                  1. atalef
                    atalef 17 December 2013 07: 54 New
                    0
                    Quote: Rider
                    Quote: atalef
                    We would probably give you 3 per annum of your budget

                    word surely in your post - the main thing.

                    when did Israel give something to someone?

                    laughing

                    And are we obligated to give something to someone? Rabrtayte and you will succeed laughing
                    1. Rider
                      Rider 17 December 2013 12: 27 New
                      +1
                      Quote: atalef
                      And are we obligated to give something to someone?

                      so am I about it, Jews altruists - nonsense.
                      1. Pimply
                        Pimply 17 December 2013 12: 41 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Rider
                        so am I about it, Jews altruists - nonsense.

                        I recommend that you read about the concept of Mitzvah, ask how many Jewish charitable foundations exist, and also ask about the number of Jewish volunteers in different countries, especially during various disasters.

                        If you are illiterate and do not like Jews, this does not mean that Jews correspond to your ideas about them.
                      2. Rider
                        Rider 17 December 2013 13: 12 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Pimply
                        I recommend that you read about the concept of Mitzvah, ask how many Jewish charitable foundations exist.

                        Come on, Evzheny, I can also throw in examples of the "charity" of Jewish arganizations. (mostly in their favor)
                        the whole point of my posts is that I catch your brother in juggling and witching.
                        as in the post of Pharaoh about "peaceful Israel"
                        I am aware that the situation was complicated, and (I wrote about it) that from a military point of view, this is even justified.

                        BUT

                        all over the world, the aggressor is the one who attacked first.

                        don't you agree?
                        or are you a fan of one traitor who claimed that Stalin FORCED Hitler to attack the USSR, since he himself was preparing for war.
                2. atalef
                  atalef 17 December 2013 13: 09 New
                  -3
                  Quote: Rider
                  the word is probably in your post - the main thing.

                  No, the main thing in my post is to work laughing
                3. The comment was deleted.
              2. just exp
                just exp 17 December 2013 04: 09 New
                +2
                and how much of 108 billion Israel earned itself?
                1. And Us Rat
                  And Us Rat 17 December 2013 05: 59 New
                  0
                  Quote: just EXPL
                  and how much of 108 billion Israel earned itself?


                  + \ - 105
                2. atalef
                  atalef 17 December 2013 07: 58 New
                  +3
                  Quote: just EXPL
                  and how much of 108 billion Israel earned itself?

                  We have this year, only one company with a staff in 100 brought to the budget a little less than the whole of Moldova earned in a year
                  Google has bought the Israeli navigation service Waze. This was reported on June 11 on the official Google blog.

                  Waze developers will continue to work on it in Israel, and the service itself will remain an independent product. At the same time, some functions of the service will be used in the map service Google Maps. Waze will gain access to Google’s search features in return.

                  Google does not disclose financial details of the transaction. Earlier, Bloomberg reported that Waze will cost the corporation 1,1 billion dollars. The Israeli edition of Globes estimated the deal at 1,3 billion dollars.
                3. Pimply
                  Pimply 17 December 2013 12: 42 New
                  0
                  Ask, for example, what kind of plant the Teva Corporation is building in Yaroblast, and what the Teva Corporation is. And this is just one of thousands of Israeli companies.
            2. sasska
              sasska 16 December 2013 23: 25 New
              +2
              colony of bacteria in nutrient broth, yes.
              benefits - the same, and even with the requirements of "broth" to renew, otherwise the bacteria will die.
              1. And Us Rat
                And Us Rat 17 December 2013 05: 52 New
                0
                Quote: sasska
                colony of bacteria in nutrient broth, yes.
                benefits - the same, and even with the requirements of "broth" to renew, otherwise the bacteria will die.



                On the little things

                Israeli researchers have created a "biological heart rate driver" that regulates heart rhythm disturbances.
                Our scientists have developed the 5-year-old vaccine for the treatment of viral respiratory diseases, which is the usual "nose drops".
                Hebrew University of Jerusalem created a new revolutionary medicine for the treatment of heart vessels, which helps prevent re-blockage of the venous vessels of the heart after balloon catheterization.
                Israeli stem cell technology is used today in the United States and around the world for treatment - restoration of heart cells, as well as for the treatment of blood cancer and other oncologies.
                Israeli company GivenImaging Ltd. first developed a swallowed video camera in the form of a small pill, which from the inside gives doctors an overview from the intestines, allowing them to study tumors or digestive disorders, which helps in accurate diagnosis and choosing the best treatment.
                Two of the most revolutionary drugs in today's drug market, Copaxone, which treats Multiple Sclerosis and Rasagaline, which helps with Parkinson's Disease, have been discovered and released for use by Israeli pharmaceutical company TevaPharmaceuticals in Israel.
                Israeli researchers first proposed a fully computerized, non-irradiation diagnostic device for detecting breast cancer.
                Israeli scientists have created a new device that directly helps the heart pump blood into the bloodstream, which potentially saves the lives of patients with heart failure. This device, in coordination with a video camera, helps doctors diagnose the mechanical processes of the heart.
                It was the successes of Israeli doctors in treating almost any ailments that allowed the American magazine Newsweek to make one of the Israeli medical centers one of the ten leaders in world medical tourism, and the Israel Children's Medical Center was placed at 2-position in the world in terms of quality of services and effectiveness in treating children.

                For a snack, (in general, this list can be continued for a long time)



                And what was given to the world YOU recently?
                1. sasska
                  sasska 17 December 2013 19: 48 New
                  0
                  I personally or Russian?
                  if I personally, then ...
                  let's start by praying: I created a normal family and built my House (I'm not talking about building); raised a child (26); gave his debt to his homeland, having served in the Soviet army; planted 4 trees; for sure, there was something else that you should not be shy about. hi

                  if you were interested in the successes of the Russian people in science, technology - google it.
            3. Tourist Breakfast
              Tourist Breakfast 16 December 2013 23: 51 New
              -3
              only at the same time it is not necessary for others to poke that they say you are fucking statesmen, in fact being parasites.

              We will not point fingers, but some have still not paid for the Lend-Lease. And all there to take other people's money.
            4. And Us Rat
              And Us Rat 17 December 2013 06: 13 New
              -1
              Quote: just EXPL
              in fact being parasites.
              ... said the man in fact being completely incompetent in information about Israel ...

              A small part of the contribution "freeloaders" in world progress:

              Drip irrigation is a method that allows Israel to maintain a high level of agricultural exports, and is now common in many countries.

              Epilator (yes, I didn’t even know that this instrument was also "blue-white", that is, invented in Israel!)

              BabySense is a baby breathing monitor designed to prevent death in the carrycot.

              Pillcam is a pill-camera that patients swallow, and it passes through the digestive tract and takes hundreds of photos, passing them through the bluetooth and helping to diagnose various problems without surgery.

              USB flash drive - or a flash drive in a simple way.

              The Intel Pentium MMX processor was developed by an Israeli intelligence lab. By the way, if you look at the list of processor code names, the first are places in Oregon, but in the M series the processors are called Banias, Dotan and Yona.

              Kinect's 3-D sensor was developed by PrimeSense, an Israeli startup. True, the new version of the Xbox will no longer have their sensor - there will be a sensor of another Israeli startup, which Microsoft bought to bring to mind an in-house solution.

              Google Suggest, this pop-up that offers you options for ending the phrase that you type in the search box, was developed by Israeli Google engineers.

              ICQ, which in Russian is called ICQ - an Israeli company bought by AOL. In general, instant messaging was implemented for the first time in Israel. Another Israeli startup doing the same was Ubique, who bought Lotus, which IBM bought.

              voicemail technology was first implemented by Israeli Comverse.

              Well, one cannot fail to mention Waze, which everyone in Israel knows, and now it is rapidly spreading in the States, especially after purchasing it by Google this summer. For those who don’t know, this is the best navigator program that draws a route taking into account traffic jams and other obstacles using data on the speed of advancement from all included Waze applications in the district.

              Teva, an Israeli pharmaceutical company, is not only the largest producer of generics and one of the twenty largest pharmaceutical companies in the world, but also has developed and produces medicines for multiple sclerosis and Parkinson.

              Israel has the highest percentage of people with higher education.

              In Israel, the largest number of per capita startups in the world, and in absolute numbers the number of Israeli startups is second only to American ones. Like the amount of Israeli venture capital funds. And the number of Israeli companies on NASDAQ is second only to American and Canadian.

              And Israel is one of the largest exporters of citrus fruits, flowers, and decorative fish. And in recent years it has become an important player in the export market for high-quality black caviar.
        2. Pimply
          Pimply 17 December 2013 00: 19 New
          -2
          Quote: just explo
          The USSR received only what it was able to take out from Germany, which had already been BATTERED TO THE HOUSES, and what every Russian victim in the war would pay in a century was not the same as now Russia, which was destroyed and lost much more, doesn’t get something from Germany, it’s just it’s in your blood that if you can take something from another, then you will take it, give me just an excuse. against the Germans you found him and will drink their blood until they have a new hitler and send you away.


          You are trying to calculate the value of six million killed. I will tell you - every soul there is priceless.

          The USSR refused phased reparations in connection with its policy. In this case, reparations were taken through the export of material assets, specialists, as well as the use of prisoner labor.

          You did not learn history, apparently. Do you saliva stands out on the word Jew?
    2. atalef
      atalef 16 December 2013 14: 04 New
      -3
      Quote: Papakiko
      So let's pay reparations to Russians in equal proportions with the Israeli

      Well, if we talk about reparations (if you know what it is) - the USSR received at times more.
      If we talk about pensions to prisoners of concentration camps, Russians also received compensation.
      If we talk about cars - Russia is definitely ahead - European cars are not popular with us - Japanese and Korea - much more,
      Well, if we talk about a kind of free weapon, first ask yourself how much of its USSR and Russia have been given all over the world, since 100 is bigger than Germany. What about a loan to Venisuele (4 billion bucks) - where? Gave it. Now, give 2 billion to Egypt. Look at yourself.
    3. faraon
      faraon 16 December 2013 14: 22 New
      -1
      So let's pay reparations to Russians in equal proportion with the Israeli kalakost and then we will think

      You are here claiming about reparations, so what's the problem? After the Great Patriotic War, half of Europe was exported by the USSR on reparations. Almost all industry was exported from Germany. and in the workshops there were lathes from the Kruppov factories and so on everywhere, starting with the first Muscovite and ending with motorcycles.) Where is all this, contact the Russian government as the legal successor of the USSR., and also valuables that have no price were removed from the Dresden gallery.
      The only tragedy is that the losers began to live many winners, moreover, they became a counterbalance to the dollar system.
      It doesn’t make you think that you don’t have to knock on the clave and look with envy at little Israel, and finally you need to begin to improve the country. A country with rich natural resources, huge land resources, a country with huge human potential.
      1. Mairos
        Mairos 16 December 2013 14: 30 New
        +5
        oh well .. half of Europe)) Don't tell me. There are mostly ruins left. Well, in the end, the USSR defeated Germany and had the right to reparation, and Israel, as a state, which side was involved in this victory? Sir, these are purely "lawyer's" quirks - cleverness in its purest form. It would be okay to pay compensation directly to individuals - okay, but to the State of Israel, from which side to give the perfection?
        1. faraon
          faraon 16 December 2013 14: 41 New
          -2
          oh well .. half of Europe))

          A good answer (+) means there were not ruins everywhere that the retention columns and other equipment were taken out.
          What side will Israel answer. As a percentage of the dead, Israel was the most affected in this disaster. The people from which all movable and immovable property was confiscated were primarily destroyed, for their attitude to Jewry alone.
          well, and the last one, Germany was the first to offer reparation, that is, initially the initiative came from the leadership of western Germany, which was rejected by the Israeli government, and only after lengthy negotiations did it begin to compensate in the form of weapons, submarines are one of the parts of this reparation.
          1. andrey-ivanov
            andrey-ivanov 16 December 2013 15: 09 New
            +9
            In fact, the Slavs were destroyed no less than the Jews. It's just that it is not "fashionable" to discuss it in the West, and even in Russia itself. Or, in your opinion, Soviet citizens of only Jewish nationality lived in Belarus and Ukraine without exception? And the millions of dead Soviet prisoners of war were also entirely Jews? And in general, it is strange and ridiculous - how is this state, which did NOT EXIST during the 2nd MV, receives some compensation for the allegedly received damage !!!!
            The issue of reparations was dragged out in every way by the German government almost until the end of the 80s. After his coming to power, Gorbachev closed this question altogether - he simply refused all payments, saying that now there are new times, perestroika, etc. Or does someone think that he just got the Nobel Prize? So, I didn’t receive any special financial preferences from the USSR after the war.
            1. faraon
              faraon 16 December 2013 15: 56 New
              0
              No one denies the sacrifice of the Soviet people in this Second World War. Imagine a small (according to the world concept) nation that was on the verge of destruction and you will understand. That a loss of 27000000 is a heavy irreplaceable loss in the vastness of the USSR, and if out of (suppose) 10000000, 2000000 is left already felt
              1. andrey-ivanov
                andrey-ivanov 16 December 2013 16: 29 New
                +6
                I was not talking about the Soviet people in general, but about the Slavic population, which, according to the directive "On special treatment" and "Rules of war in the east" (if I am mistaken in the names, please correct) were not considered people at all. And it was destroyed no less zealously, but already without export to concentration camps, but usually in the field. At the same time, for some reason no one is shouting about the "Slavic Holocaust". Nobody in the West cares about that. And the Germans did not bother with the property of these people.
                1. faraon
                  faraon 16 December 2013 16: 58 New
                  +1
                  I spoke not about the Soviet people as a whole, but about the Slavic population,

                  Eternal memory of those killed in the Second World War, regardless of religion. And nationality.
                  But I didn’t understand one thing, that there was an alternative where it would be better to die burnt in Khatyn and undergo inhuman humiliation in a concentration camp and finally fly out of the crematorium’s pipe with haze?
                  I wrote above that when 20 million and 200 million die, it’s a difficult and irreplaceable pater, but when 2 million out of 10 million remains, this is a tragedy.
                  1. sasska
                    sasska 17 December 2013 19: 59 New
                    0
                    Eternal memory of those killed in the Second World War, regardless of religion. And nationality.

                    Yeah. however, characterizes.
                    you famously included in the same list both the dead Soviet fighters who defended their homeland from the invaders, and the fascist invaders, and the killed policemen, and the 14th SS grenadier division “Galichina” SS (1st Ukrainian), and the Estonian 20.Waffen -Grenadier-Division der SS (estnische Nr. 1) ...
                2. atalef
                  atalef 17 December 2013 09: 18 New
                  0
                  Quote: andrey-ivanov
                  according to the directive "On special treatment" and "Rules of war in the east" (if I am mistaken in the names, please correct) was not considered as people at all. And it was destroyed no less zealously, but already without export to concentration camps, but usually in the field.

                  Do not tell tales and do not say nonsense. There was no directive on the destruction of the Slavs. On enslavement, yes. About the destruction - only Jews (and gypsies at a later stage) did not do this with respect to the Slavs, therefore, as a fact - over 3 million Slavs serving in the Nazi army (as military personnel and civilian employees), as well as a million or more - stolen to Germany to work (including my Ukrainian father-in-law). It was hard for them, but they weren’t shot or poisoned in the cells just because they were Slavs. I'm not talking about the Slavic countries - Hitler's allies - like Bulgaria and Serbia. - these are the same Slavs - as with them? Therefore, do not write nonsense.
                  1. sasska
                    sasska 17 December 2013 20: 06 New
                    0
                    Hitler hated the Slavs in general, and especially the Russian, Belarusian and Ukrainian peoples. The slogan of the struggle against Bolshevism raised by the Nazis on the shield was only a “fig leaf” to cover up plans for the destruction of the Soviet peoples, especially the Slavs. Obsessed with ideas of racial superiority and the need to expand living space, the Nazis did not try to hide their goals. The Baltic states, Crimea, Ukraine, Belarus and Russia to the Urals were to be included in the Reich. Where should the indigenous inhabitants of these most densely populated areas of the USSR go? Some of them, those who could have had to leave for Siberia. The rest is to be Germanized or die. The second for the Nazis was much more preferable.
                    All the actions of the Nazis in the occupied territories were directly aimed at the killing of as many Soviet people as possible, primarily Russians. The inhuman treatment of prisoners of war - depriving them of food, medical care and more or less conditions for a normal existence, led to their mass death. On July 23, 1942, Bormann, in a letter to Rosenberg, stated the views of the Führer on the Russian question: “The Slavs are called upon to work for us. When we stop needing them, they can calmly die. Therefore, mandatory vaccinations, the German health system are unnecessary for them. Reproduction of the Slavs is undesirable ... We are gentlemen. We are above all. ” Already on July 16, 1941, Hitler, at a meeting of the fascist elite in East Prussia, bluntly stated that it was time to move on to a final solution to the Slavic issue without advertising these actions. However, he demanded that his subordinates act extremely harshly. Even Stalin’s order to deploy guerrilla warfare behind the fascists in the rear, he praised positively, since now it was possible to shoot all those undesirable as partisans. “We are now facing the need to cut the cake in accordance with our needs in order to be able, firstly, to dominate this living space, secondly, to manage it and, thirdly, to exploit it,” he told his minions.
                    The plans for the mass settlement of Germans liberated from the people of the Soviet territories were not destined to come true, but they managed to exploit. An extremely small part of the population was planned to be maintained and used as slaves for a period until the German population became sufficient. With the Germans characteristic pedantry of these people, they even planned to teach counting to no more than one hundred. All German plans for the colonization of Slavic lands were in fact plans for the complete destruction of these peoples, and in the first place the inseparable Russian, Ukrainian and Belarusian peoples.
                3. atalef
                  atalef 17 December 2013 09: 18 New
                  -1
                  Quote: andrey-ivanov
                  according to the directive "On special treatment" and "Rules of war in the east" (if I am mistaken in the names, please correct) was not considered as people at all. And it was destroyed no less zealously, but already without export to concentration camps, but usually in the field.

                  Do not tell tales and do not say nonsense. There was no directive on the destruction of the Slavs. On enslavement, yes. About the destruction - only Jews (and gypsies at a later stage) did not do this with respect to the Slavs, therefore, as a fact - over 3 million Slavs serving in the Nazi army (as military personnel and civilian employees), as well as a million or more - stolen to Germany to work (including my Ukrainian father-in-law). It was hard for them, but they weren’t shot or poisoned in the cells just because they were Slavs. I'm not talking about the Slavic countries - Hitler's allies - like Bulgaria and Serbia. - these are the same Slavs - as with them? Therefore, do not write nonsense.
              2. carbofo
                carbofo 16 December 2013 18: 35 New
                +2
                Quote: faraon
                and if out of (suppose) 10000000, 2000000 is left, it is already felt

                It’s okay if there wouldn’t be any left, nobody would cry, especially the Arabs.
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 17 December 2013 00: 23 New
                  +2
                  Quote: carbofo
                  It’s okay if there wouldn’t be any left, nobody would cry, especially the Arabs.


                  Of course. Who would argue.
                2. The comment was deleted.
                  1. carbofo
                    carbofo 17 December 2013 12: 22 New
                    0
                    Quote: faraon1
                    All your eyes are closed to you, that you think you’ll slip through, no, this quiet Muslim expansion will be worse than the Tatar-Mongol yoke.

                    I see what is happening, well, or only part, you can not grasp the immense.
                    We are discussing you now.
                    But our problems do not bother you!, Or are you afraid that after us you will spend days on account?
              3. The comment was deleted.
                1. Pimply
                  Pimply 17 December 2013 00: 25 New
                  0
                  Quote: Papakiko
                  Since when did the Jews become a nation-nation?
                  In the presence of GIURA !!!
                  There are a lot of moral subhumans in the Israeli town


                  Do you have a tantrum? Drink some water.
                2. faraon1
                  faraon1 17 December 2013 04: 50 New
                  0
                  Since when did the Jews become a nation-nation?

                  Jews were and will be a nation and nation, regardless of circumstances. The Roman Empire, the Babylonian kingdom, the Khazar Khaganate, the Tatar Mongols, and the Jews all live.
                  Well, as for moral subhumans in an Israeli town, in Russia there are more such freaks. This is a country that has pulled all the hardships of war on itself. I lost 27 million only to the dead, marches are organized with fascist symbols and fascist slogans and greetings. Shame !!!!
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                    1. Pimply
                      Pimply 17 December 2013 12: 44 New
                      -1
                      Quote: carbofo
                      Since when are slaves, a nation ??
                      I hope I do not confuse anything in ancient history :)

                      Troll? Yes, so thick?
                    2. carbofo
                      carbofo 17 December 2013 13: 12 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Pimply
                      Troll? Yes, so thick?

                      Since when reliable historical facts, trolling ??
                    3. sasska
                      sasska 18 December 2013 13: 18 New
                      0
                      since then, when there are no arguments, but I want to say something. it also happens that they write about the Rules for the same reason. lol
                  2. carbofo
                    carbofo 17 December 2013 13: 12 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Pimply
                    Troll? Yes, so thick?

                    Since when reliable historical facts, trolling ??
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. atalef
              atalef 17 December 2013 09: 22 New
              0
              Quote: Papakiko
              Since when did the Jews become a nation-nation?

              Since then, when there was still no Russian in sight.

              Quote: Papakiko
              In the presence of GIURA !!!

              Tell that half-Ethiopian - Russian Pushkin.
              Quote: Papakiko
              There are a lot of moral subhumans in the Israeli town

              Do not choke on saliva laughing
              1. carbofo
                carbofo 17 December 2013 12: 28 New
                +1
                Quote: atalef
                Quote: Papakiko
                Since when did the Jews become a nation-nation?

                Since then, when there was still no Russian in sight.

                Quote: Papakiko
                In the presence of GIURA !!!

                Tell that half-Ethiopian - Russian Pushkin.
                Quote: Papakiko
                There are a lot of moral subhumans in the Israeli town

                Do not choke on saliva laughing

                1- Well, they killed the children of Egypt and were washed away, you are our noble ones.
                2- Thank God that he is not a Jew, it is already easier.
                3- Some orthodoxes are worth.
                1. atalef
                  atalef 17 December 2013 13: 19 New
                  0
                  Quote: carbofo
                  1- Well, they killed the children of Egypt and were washed away, you are our noble ones.

                  Slave owners - be precise. And if the Russians were serfs (which, in general, is unambiguously slavery) before the year 1867, then the Jews were free. And they did it themselves. long before Russians arose as a nation.
                  Quote: carbofo
                  2- Thank God that he is not a Jew, it is already easier.

                  Take the pill, Pushkin's grandfather - Arap Peter the Great - Ganiball Abram Petrov
                  The son of a sovereign prince ("Neger" of noble birth, according to the notes of his youngest son Peter) Ibrahim (Abram) was probably born in 1688 (or 1696) in Africa. The traditional version (coming from Pushkin’s familiar German biography of Hannibal, compiled by his son-in-law Rotkirch) connected the homeland of Peter's Arap with the north of Ethiopia, probably from an ethnolinguistic group of Ethiopian Jews or Amhar

                  Quote: carbofo
                  3- Some orthodoxes are worth


                  What kind of Orthodox do you mean - Orthodox Christians?
                  If the Jews - then this is a problem you certainly do not concern. Deal with your orthodox Muslims in the Caucasus
                2. carbofo
                  carbofo 17 December 2013 15: 05 New
                  +1
                  Quote: atalef
                  Slaveholders - Be Accurate

                  tell pimply, otherwise he is not aware of your story.
                  And even as serfs, we did not kill newborns.
                  But you are a great nation hmm :)) you can.
                  little pathetic evil killers.
                  Free from what? from one to another slaves and period.

                  Quote: atalef
                  Take the pill, Pushkin's grandfather - Arap Peter the Great - Ganiball Abram Petrov

                  I’m on the drum who he is and where, it’s only your hobby to always find out nationality, because Russian in a sense is not nationality :)
              2. atalef
                atalef 17 December 2013 13: 19 New
                -2
                Quote: carbofo
                1- Well, they killed the children of Egypt and were washed away, you are our noble ones.

                Slave owners - be precise. And if the Russians were serfs (which, in general, is unambiguously slavery) before the year 1867, then the Jews were free. And they did it themselves. long before Russians arose as a nation.
                Quote: carbofo
                2- Thank God that he is not a Jew, it is already easier.

                Take the pill, Pushkin's grandfather - Arap Peter the Great - Ganiball Abram Petrov
                The son of a sovereign prince ("Neger" of noble birth, according to the notes of his youngest son Peter) Ibrahim (Abram) was probably born in 1688 (or 1696) in Africa. The traditional version (coming from Pushkin’s familiar German biography of Hannibal, compiled by his son-in-law Rotkirch) connected the homeland of Peter's Arap with the north of Ethiopia, probably from an ethnolinguistic group of Ethiopian Jews or Amhar

                Quote: carbofo
                3- Some orthodoxes are worth


                What kind of Orthodox do you mean - Orthodox Christians?
                If the Jews - then this is a problem you certainly do not concern. Deal with your orthodox Muslims in the Caucasus
        2. sasska
          sasska 16 December 2013 23: 44 New
          +4
          and the better the Jews of the same American Indians? why other affected peoples do not require preferences for themselves? they probably shouldn't - they are not Jews, cho.
          oh, it was not in vain that the decree of Empress Catherine II put the limit on the settlement of Jews in the Russian Empire
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 17 December 2013 00: 28 New
            +1
            Quote: sasska
            and the better the Jews of the same American Indians? why other affected peoples do not require preferences for themselves? they probably shouldn't - they are not Jews, cho

            Require. And they get it. Have you heard about the existence of the Bureau of Indian Affairs, for example, in the USA? Or the Department of Indian Affairs in Canada? Have you heard about benefits, autonomy, subsidies for the Indians? No? Well, this is purely your problems and illiteracy. Should I start giving more examples?
      2. andrey-ivanov
        andrey-ivanov 16 December 2013 16: 33 New
        +6
        By the way, long before the Soviet Union began to export equipment from factories (surviving) in Germany, this same Germany took a lot out of the occupied territory of the Soviet Union. And something so far has not returned ....
        1. atalef
          atalef 16 December 2013 22: 44 New
          -1
          Quote: andrey-ivanov
          By the way, long before the Soviet Union began to export equipment from factories (surviving) in Germany, this same Germany took a lot out of the occupied territory of the Soviet Union. And something so far has not returned ....

          By the way, before it began to export something from the USSR, it confiscated all Jewish property in all occupied countries --- and something that it still hasn’t returned.
          1. Rider
            Rider 16 December 2013 23: 01 New
            0
            Quote: atalef
            and something that still hasn’t returned.

            Abyd yes?

            By the way, atalef, did you read the book I recommended to you?
            She is especially welcome in connection with your statement.

            laughing
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 17 December 2013 00: 31 New
              -1
              Quote: Rider
              bydny yes?

              By the way, atalef, did you read the book I recommended to you?
              She is especially welcome in connection with your statement.


              Funny, interesting, would you say something like that about property that was stolen by the Germans in the USSR. You, apparently, are a worthy successor and admirer of Hitler. It is shameful to see this in a country that defeated this villain and suffered so much from him.
            2. atalef
              atalef 17 December 2013 08: 08 New
              -1
              Quote: Rider
              Quote: atalef
              and something that still hasn’t returned.

              Abyd yes?

              By the way, atalef, did you read the book I recommended to you?
              She is especially welcome in connection with your statement.

              laughing

              No, we’ll survive, it’s you who are drooling, not even for your grandmothers — for the Germans, the Germans know what they paid for, and still paid a little for everything that Hitler did. And you don’t have to make altruists out of your dreams, the USSR has taken out enough for reparations, I don’t even want to quote Google, and it doesn’t matter, the last reparations were paid to Israel in 1951, after that if they were paid, then only pensions to people (not to the state) ) to the victims of the Second World War (Russians, by the way, received the same thing), but help- let the German government decide for themselves who and how to help, Russia how much dough gives away every year - from Venezuela to Syria? Vietnam, Cuba and so on? Count your grandmothers, we certainly don’t live on your grandmothers
              1. Rider
                Rider 17 December 2013 12: 41 New
                +3
                atalef and pimply
                (in one bottle)

                where did you get what I'm worried about because of your money?

                however, many Jews with foam at the mouth assure that ALL the achievements of Israel are made by him.
                and here it turns out that they give you weapons and throw money.
                but talk about it somehow is not comme il faut?
                Quote: atalef
                The Soviet Union exported enough, I don’t even want to quote

                and you work hard.
                and then Pharaoh assured that the USSR FLOOR OF EUROPE taken out.
                and your quote about the reperation must be confirmed by reference. not just a set of letters.
                Quote: atalef
                the last reparations were paid to Israel in 1951, after which if they were paid, then only pensions to people (not the state) who suffered in the Second World War

                you still read the little book.
                then get rid of the illusions

                and most importantly.
                The USSR received indemnity because our country suffered huge material damage from the actions of the aggressor.
                But what damage Israel received from the actions of the Wehrmacht, I would like to know.
              2. carbofo
                carbofo 17 December 2013 15: 10 New
                +2
                Quote: atalef
                No, we will survive


                Take a word, you won’t survive, the clock is ticking, and the distribution of gas masks is the first tick, how much does the timer cost? nobody knows.
                But you already know one thing, the clock is started and time is rapidly returning you back, but you don’t want to, really.
              3. And Us Rat
                And Us Rat 17 December 2013 20: 53 New
                -2
                Quote: carbofo
                Quote: atalef
                No, we will survive


                Take a word, you won’t survive, the clock is ticking, and the distribution of gas masks is the first tick, how much does the timer cost? nobody knows.
                But you already know one thing, the clock is started and time is rapidly returning you back, but you don’t want to, really.


                I haven’t laughed like that for a long time laughing
                1. Such mantras are heard daily, for almost 67 years.
                2. Over all this time, Israel has been STABLE becoming stronger, richer, the standard of living is rising, science is flourishing, positions in various fields are moving towards the leading ones (and in some it is already confidently leading) - on a global scale.

                The dog barks - the caravan goes on, and you continue to mutter mantras. lol
                The main irony is that the timer is ticking just for you - with your own hands.
              4. carbofo
                carbofo 20 December 2013 14: 24 New
                0
                Quote: And Us Rat
                I haven’t laughed like that for a long time

                The one who laughs last laughs well.
      3. sasska
        sasska 16 December 2013 23: 53 New
        +1
        and how many Amber rooms have not been returned to the Jews?
        announce the whole list please yes
        1. Pimply
          Pimply 17 December 2013 00: 11 New
          -2
          Quote: sasska
          and how many Amber rooms have not been returned to the Jews?
          announce the whole list please


          Trolling, and not even skilled. Have you watched the site rules?
          1. sasska
            sasska 17 December 2013 00: 47 New
            +3
            an argument from the category "you yourself are"?
            breathe deeper, count to ten.
          2. Pimply
            Pimply 17 December 2013 01: 14 New
            0
            Quote: sasska
            an argument from the category "you yourself are"?
            breathe deeper, count to ten.


            And again - read the rules of the site about trolling.
      4. faraon1
        faraon1 17 December 2013 04: 55 New
        0
        and how many Amber rooms have not been returned to the Jews?

        Well, as far as I remember, not the Jews but the Russians, or rather the Russian state
        museum. And museum property is a public treasure, so you demand it.
  7. Pimply
    Pimply 17 December 2013 00: 29 New
    -1
    Quote: andrey-ivanov
    By the way, long before the Soviet Union began to export equipment from factories (surviving) in Germany, this same Germany took a lot out of the occupied territory of the Soviet Union.


    Someone talking about the injustice of Soviet reparations?
  • Mairos
    Mairos 16 December 2013 15: 23 New
    11
    I emphasize and repeat - the Jewish people suffered, yes! STATES Israel DID NOT EXIST during the 2 World War !! How could he be the most affected if he was neither de jure nor de facto ?!
    1. Tourist Breakfast
      Tourist Breakfast 16 December 2013 15: 49 New
      -3
      I emphasize and repeat - the Jewish people suffered, yes! STATES Israel DID NOT EXIST during the 2 World War !! How could he be the most affected if he was neither de jure nor de facto ?!

      During WWII, the Nazis appropriated the money, property and real estate of European Jews. Most have no heirs. Therefore, the state of Israel declared itself the heir of these people and on this basis received compensation from Germany in the early 50s, EMNIP.
      1. Cat
        Cat 16 December 2013 15: 59 New
        +8
        Quote: Tourist's Breakfast
        During WWII, the Nazis appropriated the money, property and real estate of European Jews. Most have no heirs. Therefore, the state of Israel declared itself the heir of these people and, on this basis, received compensation from Germany

        Yeah. That is, if my employer, a childless billionaire, did not pay me a salary, and then suddenly died without leaving a will - then, as a victim, I have the right to declare myself an heir, and lay claim to that part of the property that I consider sufficient to compensate for my own suffering. And do not care that the certificate from the accounting department indicating the unpaid amount - I do not have, in principle, as well as witnesses (except for myself).
        Original jurisprudence is obtained, yes ...
        1. Santa Fe
          16 December 2013 16: 20 New
          +2
          Quote: Cat
          oh I, as a victim, have the right to declare myself heir

          And there is. Paying back with creditors
          Quote: Cat
          it is on that part of the property that I consider sufficient to compensate for my own suffering

          Why distort so immediately
          Compensation in the form of six donated submarines is purely symbolic, 2 billion does not mean anything nationwide
          Quote: Cat
          I am absent in principle, as are the witnesses (except myself).

          Witnesses and testimonies are available.





          1. Ptah
            Ptah 16 December 2013 16: 50 New
            +7
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Witnesses and testimonies are available.

            Yes, we do not need these propagandized photos now. They'll come to us for wallets, bashing some Izya, for the fact that he "had the luck" to stay alive after five rounds, and, for example, my uncle died in the camp from hunger and disease.
            So he died without leaving children. Due to youth. But his relatives remained. Where do they get it, nipped by the Nazis (who basically NEVER, NEVER PAY !!!), pfenning.
            What if your or my relative is in the picture? Do not exclude? And how do you imagine the same classic evgey?
            I will disappoint you, perhaps, but there are NO DOCUMENTS, NO DESCRIPTIONS certifying SUCH FOOTWEAR, SUITCASES, GLASSES, PROSTHESES, TOYS / DOLLS, DENTAL BRUSHES, etc., compiled by pedantic Germans in the camp you are here for . And even those who were the first to enter do not confirm these garbage heaps from all over Europe.
            Even scandals happened in socialist Poland when a signature like "Oksana Pribyvaiko" was found on a children's shoe. Well, a purely Jewish name and surname .....
            1. Pimply
              Pimply 17 December 2013 00: 36 New
              -1
              Quote: Ptah
              Yes, we do not need these propagandized photos now. They'll come to us for wallets, bashing some Izya, for the fact that he "had the luck" to stay alive after five rounds, and, for example, my uncle died in the camp from hunger and disease.
              So he died without leaving children. Due to youth. But his relatives remained. Where they get it, nipped by the Nazis (who, in principle, ANYONE, NEVER PAY !!!), pfenning.


              You got it. In the form of the development of certain industries in the USSR.

              Or I don’t understand something, and you are trying to figure out whose dead are more expensive, and you are jealous of the fact that a third of the nation was killed by the Jews. Return to the Jews one of the dead and take all the money by means of compensation. Believe me - there will be no doubt here.
            2. carbofo
              carbofo 17 December 2013 13: 01 New
              +2
              Quote: Pimply
              envy the Jews killed a third of the nation

              Third? you ofigeli dear, you like ... uh, so many that even count that share 0. ..% of your loss is impossible, as well as the total number of cockroaches, poor, unhappy you ours.
              One-third in only one country, with a total population of 1939 in 80.600.000 +
              now count with the world's population 2 300 000 000.
              Entertaining math.
            3. And Us Rat
              And Us Rat 17 December 2013 21: 29 New
              -4
              Quote: carbofo
              Quote: Pimply
              envy the Jews killed a third of the nation

              Third? you ofigeli dear, you like ... uh, so many that even count that share 0. ..% of your loss is impossible, as well as the total number of cockroaches, poor, unhappy you ours.
              One-third in only one country, with a total population of 1939 in 80.600.000 +
              now count with the world's population 2 300 000 000.
              Entertaining math.


              The fascists have their own math, as I see it, with cockroaches - will you compare your fascist offspring, understand ?! Keyboard fighter. angry
            4. carbofo
              carbofo 23 December 2013 10: 57 New
              0
              ja ja gerr officer :)
    2. Cat
      Cat 16 December 2013 17: 29 New
      +6
      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      And there is. Paying back with creditors

      do not confuse creditors with assigns, these are different concepts.
      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      Why distort so immediately
      Compensation in the form of six donated submarines is purely symbolic, 2 billion does not mean anything nationwide

      In addition to these six submarines, there are also cash payments, of a very, very comfortable size. Plus all sorts of benefits, both political and economic. And so on and so forth. And if you put everything together, and count it on submarines - dad Doenitz will gnaw at the coffin with envy.
      And most importantly, the final amount of claims, as far as I know, has not yet been announced. And under the pretext of "payment for the Holocaust" more and more buns are constantly being knocked out from Germany.
      But all the other countries that lost a lot more people than the Jews in the war with Germany - for some reason they don’t get any such submarines. Or maybe I just don’t know, and the vast expanses of the steppes of Ukraine have long plowed the squadrons of 212's? Enlighten, plz.

      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
      Witnesses and testimonies are available.

      Oleg, do not drive the demon ... What are the witnesses and testimonies? Are there really complete archives of Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Warsaw and other other ghettos, indicating the exact amounts - how many and who did the Germans take from? Or maybe those Jews who died in concentration camps and left no heirs - somehow managed to convey from the other world an inventory of the lost property? So w.
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 17 December 2013 00: 37 New
        -2
        Quote: Cat
        In addition to these six submarines, there are also cash payments, of a very, very comfortable size. Plus all sorts of benefits, both political and economic. And so on and so forth. And if you put everything together, and count it on submarines - dad Doenitz will gnaw at the coffin with envy.

        Do you envy Holocaust survivors?
        Or maybe they are ready to bring a third of the Jewish nation back to life?
      2. carbofo
        carbofo 17 December 2013 13: 04 New
        +3
        You cannot lose a third, since no one knows your strength.
  • Tourist Breakfast
    Tourist Breakfast 16 December 2013 16: 22 New
    -1
    Yeah. That is, if my employer, a childless billionaire, did not pay me a salary, and then suddenly died without leaving a will - then, as a victim, I have the right to declare myself an heir, and lay claim to that part of the property that I consider sufficient to compensate for my own suffering. And do not care that the certificate from the accounting department indicating the unpaid amount - I do not have, in principle, as well as witnesses (except for myself).
    Original jurisprudence is obtained, yes ...

    Your example is not relevant to this situation. You can argue for a long time about whether this claim is fair or unfair. And does Israel have a moral right for such actions. In the end, in defense, it can be said that Israel is committed to accepting those who were followed by the Nazis because of Jewish roots. But what has been done is done. One thing is not clear - why is the question of Israeli-German calculations so worried about the inhabitants of the former one sixth of the land? Do you have other, more pressing problems there?
    1. Douste
      Douste 16 December 2013 17: 14 New
      +5
      [quote = Tourist's Breakfast] [quote] the former one sixth of the land
      We are still alive.
    2. Cat
      Cat 16 December 2013 19: 37 New
      +5
      Quote: Tourist's Breakfast
      One thing is not clear - why is the question of Israeli-German calculations so worried about the inhabitants of the former one sixth of the land?

      Because it was the inhabitants of this very "one-sixth" who broke the back of the Nazis, and took Berlin, and signed on the Reichstag. And they paid a huge price for this - 26 million lives, according to the latest data. That's just, unlike some, on "one-sixth" never and no one was divided into "more" or "less" victims - although it is clear to anyone that residents of some Yakutia suffered less than residents of Ukraine, through which the fiery shaft rolled twice. Just then it was one countryand the losses were - general. Because everyone fought for the same Motherland.
      But when the German was finally crushed, it suddenly turned out: there is such a people who are not just victims, but the most affected. And to whom we owe the most. Interestingly, there were enough representatives of this people on our "one-sixth", and they fought in the same way as Russians, Belarusians, Ukrainians, and so on ... and died in the same way, leaving widows and orphans. But for some reason, they were not among the “most affected”. Probably because they fought and died in battle - and not like those who marched in columns into the ghettos and concentration camps, silently and resignedly, like a flock of sheep. And who ultimately turned out to be - "heirs". And if someone doesn’t vyaknet something against, immediately high on the whole globe rises - denial of the Holocaust, of course, the most terrible crime, where is the Waffen-SS with their Auschwitz ...


      And now, without pathos: according to the Internet, there are about 14 million Jews on the ball, 6 million of whom live in Israel (less than half, that is). Which of the Jews and how many relatives lost thanks to Hitler - there is hardly such data anywhere ... but it seems to me doubtful that all of them would fundamentally move to the Promised Land, spitting on all other countries. Most likely, approximately the same half of the "heirs" live in Israel, plus or minus a couple of percent. But, nevertheless, Israel receives compensation for everyone. In general, the citizens are Jews - they even manage to cheat their fellow believers, not to mention other peoples who do not receive any buns from Germany at all.
      1. Tourist Breakfast
        Tourist Breakfast 16 December 2013 23: 21 New
        -2
        But compensation, however, Israel receives for all. In general, Jewish citizens - even fool their co-religionists, do not talk about other peoples who do not receive any goodies from Germany at all.

        Listen, study first the essence of the issue that so excites you. Israel, as a state, today does not receive any compensation from Germany. Private individuals, both Israeli citizens and citizens of the countries of the former USSR, who meet certain criteria, get it. Israel received 3 billion marks for reparations
        from the 52nd to the 65th year. Allies and the USSR also received reparations.
      2. Cat
        Cat 17 December 2013 12: 16 New
        +3
        Quote: Tourist's Breakfast
        Listen, study first the essence of the issue that so excites you.

        as it was not said by me that:
        Quote: Tourist's Breakfast
        During WWII, the Nazis appropriated the money, property and real estate of European Jews. Most have no heirs. Therefore, the state of Israel declared itself the heir of these people and, on this basis, received compensation from Germany

        Translated into Russian, this means that the state of Israel has declared itself the heir of those people who have never been citizens of that state. Is this normal from your point of view? With mine, no.
        Next:
        Quote: Tourist's Breakfast
        Israel received 3 billion marks for reparations
        from the 52nd to the 65th year. Allies and the USSR also received reparations.

        USSR and allies - were aggressed by Nazi Germany. There are many different versions and opinions about who sponsored Hitler and pushed him to war, but this is a topic for another conversation. De facto, both WWII and WWII were launched by Germany. Accordingly, the Union and the others, who finally won the Germans, were entitled to reparations. But Israel did not participate in WWII, for the simple reason that no such Israel at that time existed on the globe at all. And for the same reason - did not take any part in the defeat of the Third Reich. The question is: with what fright did Israel find itself among the states that received reparations from Germany?
        You say - aggression, they say, was not Israel, but the Jews - which accounted for these same 3 lard of Deutschmarks. Let's say. But then another question: for what such merits receive compensation
        Quote: Tourist's Breakfast
        private individuals, both Israeli citizens and citizens of the countries of the former USSR that meet certain criteria

        is that - the lard received by Israel was not enough, so let's introduce personal payments? And how they end - we’ll come up with some printers, the Germans are not poor, they’ll share. Somehow it turns out ...
        Well, about "compliance with certain categories" - so what is there to correspond ... it is enough to have the correct nationality, that's all. Get the money and sign. But the others, who are without nationality, will be trampled. Once upon a time, they paid something to former Ostarbeiters, so let them rejoice.

        Original, in general, policy, according to the principle: Love your neighbor - otherwise the neighbor will love you, and he will rejoice. In the best traditions of the Jewish nation, yes ...
      3. Tourist Breakfast
        Tourist Breakfast 17 December 2013 13: 16 New
        +1
        I'm tired of proving anything to you. You do not own the question. In particular, you are not aware that today compensation from Germany is received by residents of the countries of the former USSR who were hijacked to work in Germany and who have nothing to do with either Jews or Israel. Why are you scribbling such long posts without first learning the gist?
      4. Cat
        Cat 17 December 2013 20: 21 New
        +3
        Quote: Tourist's Breakfast
        You do not own the question. In particular, you are not aware that today compensation from Germany is received by residents of the countries of the former USSR who were hijacked to work in Germany and who have nothing to do with either Jews or Israel.

        that's exactly, "residents who were driven to work in Germany" - get. Rather, they received until 2006, after which payments, at least to residents of Ukraine, stopped. But the Jews receive and will continue to receive, and even those whom no one has stolen anywhere.
        For example: "In 2008, Jews who survived the siege of Leningrad were equated with victims of the Holocaust and upon presentation of documents receive a one-time payment of 2556 euros." (C)
        Also, those who survived the war in the occupied territories will be considered victims of the Holocaust (with all the consequences), or maybe already officially considered. Is this right or not so? So, after all, all residents of Ukraine should be recognized as victims of Nazism, with the subsequent payment of compensation, yeah.
        By the way, how much, say, did the State of Israel receive from Germany, just 3 lard marks? Indeed, a trifle ... especially considering that "The Association for Jewish Material Claims Against Germany (Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany) has received about $ 1951 billion from the German government since 70." (C)
        And here is the link to the website of this Claims Conference: http://www.claimscon.org, I ask you to pay special attention to the bottom of the page where the address is indicated - is something far from Jerusalem, do not you think? . And why? Not otherwise, most victims of the Holocaust live in New York.
        But these 70 lard dollars are not everything, here is the news for 2013, the month of May: An agreement on further compensation was reached between representatives of the Jewish Association and the German government. It is estimated that $ 266 million will be paid in 2015, another 273 million in 2016 and 280 million in 2017.. (c) The main point of this news is that it is only the next compensation, and how many more will there be, due to "newly discovered" circumstances?
        When do you finally stop milking the graves of your ancestors ???
        For some reason it seems to me - never. Even if the last person born before May 9, 1945 dies, Germany will owe something to the Jews. Even if not to all, but only to individual organizations such as the "Association for the Material Claims of Jews to Germany," but it will be. And let not only Domnitsers sit in that association - the rest, too, want to eat, often and tasty, it's not to drive them out into the street ...
    3. Rider
      Rider 17 December 2013 13: 24 New
      +3
      Quote: Cat
      is that - the lard received by Israel was not enough, so let's introduce personal payments? And how will they end - we’ll come up with some printers, the Germans are not poor, they’ll share


      actually it is
      I advise you to read
      Holocaust industry - N. Finkelstein.

      the author, as you can see, is a purebred ari .. uh, Jew.
      moreover, his parents went through German camps.
      it is difficult to suspect bias.
    4. Tourist Breakfast
      Tourist Breakfast 17 December 2013 13: 37 New
      -1
      Holocaust industry - N. Finkelstein.

      It is the same as advising to study the history of the Second World War on the works of Rezun.
      I'm waiting for you to remember about Israel Shamir.
    5. Rider
      Rider 17 December 2013 14: 00 New
      +1
      Quote: Tourist's Breakfast
      It is the same as advising to study the history of the Second World War on the works of Rezun.

      and you can disprove reasonably 7
      Well, although, as in the example of the same cutter, it turned out a lot of books where they poke frank lies in his fraud.
      but according to the above-mentioned Finkilstein there is something like that?

      I’ve bothered to read his book, and I assure you that it is replete with quotes and links to completely reliable documents.
      and in my opinion, the book is very true.
    6. Tourist Breakfast
      Tourist Breakfast 17 December 2013 20: 18 New
      0
      I’ve bothered to read his book, and I assure you that it is replete with quotes and links to completely reliable documents.
      and in my opinion, the book is very true.


      Likewise, the works of Rezun "abound in quotations and references to quite reliable documents." The problem is that the author gives only those citations and references that fit into his theory and rejects everything that contradicts it. The alphabet of conspiracy.
    7. Rider
      Rider 17 December 2013 20: 38 New
      +1
      Quote: Tourist's Breakfast
      So the works of Rezun in the same way "are replete with quotations and links to quite reliable documents

      I can just give you a couple of books (at least the same "antirezun") that debunk the traitor's ravings.

      and from you I will wait for at least something other than YOUR negative attitude to the author?

      by the way, you are not the first who immediately called the author a liar (both atalef and puppy from your cohort), but neither THEY, nor YOU, ARGUMENTS have ever brought.

      you would at least read what I recommended for a change.
      then try to refute.
    8. Tourist Breakfast
      Tourist Breakfast 17 December 2013 22: 27 New
      -2
      I can just give you a couple of books (at least the same "antirezun") that debunk the traitor's ravings.

      and from you I will wait for at least something other than YOUR negative attitude to the author?

      In relation to Finkelstein, there is also his own "Antirezun", and not one. Such comrades as Alan Dershowitz, Omer Bartov, etc.
    9. Rider
      Rider 17 December 2013 23: 05 New
      +1
      Quote: Tourist's Breakfast
      In relation to Finkelstein, there is also his own "Antirezun", and not one.

      Can I be more specific?

      Having glanced quickly at the title of their publications (mainly in English, translated by Google), I did not notice the mention of "anti-Finkilstein"

      can you concretize?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • atalef
    atalef 17 December 2013 14: 14 New
    0
    Quote: Rider
    I advise you to read the Holocaust industry - N. Finkelstein

    Filkin's letter from Filkinstein
    I read the same thing here, or rather an ancient legend
    About the ancient Kazakhs

    Oct 6th, 2010
    by Askar.


    The ancient Kazakhs were tall blue-eyed blondes. And not because being a small narrow-eyed brunette is somehow not high, but because everyone knows that real Kazakhs are blue-eyed blondes. The legend says - once in ancient times, in one aul in which narrow-eyed and black-haired Kazakhs lived, blue-eyed blondes came, and then all the inhabitants of the aul went out and said to the blondes - you blondes are real Kazakhs, and we are not real. And the blondes asked fake Kazakhs - Why are we real Kazakhs? And then the fake Kazakhs answered the blondes - And because the real Kazakhs are blue-eyed blondes. Here is such an ancient legend

    Or better yet
    Noah was Ukrainian and lived in Atlantis. His descendants who survived the Great Flood settled throughout Eurasia, carrying everywhere their language - Sanskrit. Then they entered Japan and South America. Such a revolutionary view of world history was set forth by Lviv general practitioner Vasil Kobylyukh in the TV show “Phenomenon of Ukraine”, shown last week on Sevastopol television.

    Pan Vasil believes that the legendary Atlantis was not at all in the Atlantic Ocean, but in the area of ​​the present Carpathians. There, on the horseshoe-shaped ridge, the Proto-Ukrainians rescued by Noah 650 thousands of years ago were saved from the great flood caused by the melting of the Arctic ice.


    And of course it
    Is there a Russian nation? I’m not at all sure of this. The slogan "Russia for the Russians" means today - forward to the Moscow principality of the times of Ivan III, for the Russian nationalist will definitely not be satisfied with the Moscow kingdom by the end of Ivan the Terrible's reign. It was then that the Kazan, Astrakhan and Siberian Khanates were included in the hereditary possessions of the Rurikovich, and with them the Tatars, Bashkirs, Chuvashs, Mordovians, Udmurts, Mari. By the way, some Siberian peoples, which gradually fell under the power of Russia during the 16th – 17th centuries, today there are 37. In other words, by the end of the reign of Ivan the Terrible, Muscovy finally ceased to be a state, predominantly a Great Russian nation. This is a country of Koryak, and Aleutorets, and Kereks, and, God forgive me, Nganasans. If “Russia for Russians”, then where to put them with all the shamans, walrus fangs and mother Tyulenichoy, and at the same time with oil, gas and diamonds? Tell me, Orthodox, what should we do with the Yakut deity of the upper world, Yuryung Ayy Toyon

    http://www.snob.ru/selected/entry/63417
  • Rider
    Rider 17 December 2013 14: 28 New
    +2
    Quote: atalef
    Filkin's letter from Filkinstein

    that is, I can’t wait for the arguments
    (however, as I expected)
    and for the rest, you decided to flood the topic.

    Do you want me to reprint anti-Semitic nonsense from some sort of Nazisite?
    there is also enough pearl.

    learn to be responsible for your words.
    and not just post a set of letters.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • atalef
    atalef 17 December 2013 14: 36 New
    -3
    Quote: Rider
    that is, I can’t wait for the arguments

    How beautiful it is to flood, bring at least one proof, at least drop the quote. what would be what to refute. For now, only I am posting documents, as are links.
    Quote: Rider
    Do you want me to reprint anti-Semitic nonsense from some sort of Nazisite? There, after all, there are also enough pearl.

    This is what you periodically do. and Filkinshtein is not worth more than quotation books from which I have given you or that blue-eyed Kazakhs are not true, by the way, please refute that the Ukrainians did not descend from the Atlanteans. Very beautiful and harmonious theory
    Quote: Rider
    learn to be responsible for your words. and not just post a set of letters

    Are you talking to yourself?
  • Rider
    Rider 17 December 2013 15: 25 New
    +1
    Quote: atalef
    For now, only I am posting documents, as are links.

    WHAT KIND DOCUMENTS ?!!!

    a link to a muddy article without citing the source - is this a DOCUMENT?
    Quote: atalef
    and Filkinshtein is not worth more than quotation books from which I brought you


    can you confirm your words?
    arguments like: the rabbi said that this book is byaka,
    you can keep it with you.

    so let's go in order.

    The USSR exported from Germany 100500 mulleins of junk cars.
    and documentation, please.

    Finkilstein is a liar and a provocateur, and his book is full of distortions, and outright lies.
    and then a refutation.
    supposedly the Swiss did not pay money to Jewish holocaust organizations, or paid, but not so much, and so much but all the money reached the descendants of the account holders.

    let's atalef.
    do not be a balabol.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 17 December 2013 00: 38 New
    -2
    Quote: Cat
    Because it was the inhabitants of this very "one-sixth" who broke the back of the Nazis, and took Berlin, and signed on the Reichstag. And they paid a huge price for this - 26 million lives, according to the latest data

    And in Israel they don’t forget about it, if you don’t know.

    Only for some reason you consider it permissible to dance, like the Nazis, on the bones of the Jewish dead, and envy the dead. You are disgusting, excuse me.
  • Cat
    Cat 17 December 2013 12: 35 New
    +3
    Quote: Pimply
    Only for some reason you consider it permissible to dance, like the Nazis, on the bones of the Jewish dead, and envy the dead. You are disgusting, excuse me.

    it's the dancing on the bones that infuriates me. Jews who went through the Nazi ghettos and camps - how many are there? Units, hundreds, maximum thousands. And how many Jews receive compensation "for the atrocities of the Nazis"? Name a number - so that I do not look in unreliable sources and then listen to claims about bias. Name it yourself. And at the same time, try to clearly explain - for what such merits they receive this compensation. They did not sit in the camps, did not experience persecution, and indeed they were not in the project at that time. Nevertheless - they regularly receive money, they also scream - suddenly someone dares to challenge the truth about the nation most affected by Nazism. Although, I repeat, they themselves did not see Nazism or its horrors.
    This is what I personally consider - dancing on the bones. Finally, let your ancestors fall asleep calmly, enough already with their blood to pull a percentage ...

    PS: if you suddenly think that all my words are the result of pathological hatred of your people - then you better not think so. Because in the same way I am enraged by our "dancers on bones", in every possible way propagandizing their own Holocaust - which is the Holodomor. Moreover, the most ideological people of Holodomor are not like themselves, even their great-grandfathers, great-grandmothers, did not know any such Holodomor, since then they lived in a completely different state. Which, however, does not prevent them from considering themselves "victims of Stalin's atrocities" and demanding who knows what is unknown from whom.
  • sasska
    sasska 18 December 2013 13: 56 New
    0
    I advise you to readand remember this in Israel?
    The term "mishlinge" in the Reich called people born of mixed marriages of Aryans with non-Aryans. Despite the legal "spoilage" of people with Jewish genes and in spite of the loud propaganda, tens of thousands of "mishlinges" lived peacefully under the Nazis. They were usually recruited into the Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine, becoming not only soldiers, but also part of the generals at the level of commanders of regiments, divisions and armies. Hundreds of "mishlinges" were awarded Iron Crosses for bravery. Twenty soldiers and officers of Jewish origin were awarded the highest military award of the Third Reich - the Knight's Cross. Adolf Rotfeld, the head of the Lviv Judendrat, also collaborated with the Gestapo. And the officer of the German (!) Security Police of the same Lvov, Max Goliger, received a promotion for his sophisticated cruelty. The Jewish police of the "Galicia district" - "Yudishe Ordnung Lemberg" - "the Jewish order of Lvov" was formed from young and strong Jews, former scouts. They wore the uniform of policemen with badges on their caps, on which was written YOL, it was them who called themselves "havers" who were instructed by the SS to arrange mass torture of Soviet prisoners of war in concentration camps and then they themselves were surprised at the cruelty with which young Jews treated the captured soldiers. And this is just one Lviv ... The aviation of Hitlerite Germany destroyed how many Soviet cities and villages, how many civilians were killed by shrapnel of air bombs? There are many, very different things ... We remember this, but we probably forgot that a potential repatriate was in charge of these "aces" to Israel Erhard Milch. Jewish Field Marshal, who received the title of honorary Aryan from the hands of Hitler. In January 1944, the personnel department of the Wehrmacht prepared a secret list of 77 high-ranking officers and generals "mixed with the Jewish race or married to Jewish women." All 77 had personal identification Hitler on “German blood.” Among those listed on the list are 23 colonels, 5 major generals, 8 lieutenant generals and two full general.
  • faraon1
    faraon1 17 December 2013 05: 13 New
    -1
    Then, according to Internet data, go to the Yad Vashem website, where you will find the information you are interested in up to the birthday and the day of the death of every Jew who died in the camp, in battle, who died in the rear.
    What still is not in Russia, and not only is it not so far found by the charred soldiers who died in this war. And this is in the country that defeated fascism. As reparations, it took half the Europe. And this is stated by a representative of a country covering an area of ​​one sixth of the globe , with huge natural resources.
    envious of the reparations that Israel receives.
  • carbofo
    carbofo 17 December 2013 13: 08 New
    +3
    Quote: faraon1
    What is still not in Russia, and not only is it not so far found not yet charmed

    We are Russian and not Jews, your attitude towards money is alien to us.
    And you even strive to convert to coin.
    We do not make a mint from our death.
  • atalef
    atalef 17 December 2013 13: 37 New
    -3
    Quote: carbofo
    We are Russian and not Jews, your attitude towards money is alien to us.

    This is especially evident in your salivation for German money. laughing
    I’m personally on the drum how many Russians received compensation from Germany (my father-in-law, including Ukrainian for a minute) -
    no matter how much they get, it’s not too long. Until the end of the life of the last veteran and prisoner, Germany was obliged to pay for all the grief that it caused these people.
    Quote: carbofo
    We do not make a mint from our death.

    The USSR refused reparations and compensations to the victims of Nazism? The first time I hear, or bring some kind of document in the confirmation. not just your personal desires
  • carbofo
    carbofo 17 December 2013 14: 58 New
    +2
    Quote: atalef
    This is especially evident in your salivation for German money.

    Well, quickly read what I wrote, where is it about money? I don’t care at all.
    Do not measure me by my standards, it has not grown yet.
  • atalef
    atalef 17 December 2013 13: 49 New
    -1
    Quote: Cat
    Yeah. That is, if my employer, a childless billionaire, did not pay me a salary, and then suddenly died without leaving a will - then, as a victim, I have the right to declare myself an heir

    No, you have the right to demand from his legal successor or heir
    The first time you hear about this - read about the Russian law on property of the USSR

    Quote: Cat
    And do not care that the certificate from the accounting department indicating the unpaid amount - I do not have, in principle, as well as witnesses (except for myself). Original jurisprudence is obtained, yes ...

    The Germans are punctual enough and not suckers, they know why and why they pay.
    The criteria for compensation are developed by the German government. Compensation requests are reviewed by German commissions through the mediation of German law firms. If you are not comfortable. can contact at
    Documents should be sent to: Claims Conference Hardship Fund, Sophienstrasse 41, 60487 Frankfurt am Main.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • andrey-ivanov
    andrey-ivanov 16 December 2013 16: 20 New
    +6
    Bliiiin ... Oh, we are Russian muddlers !!! During the Tatar-Mongol campaigns, money, property, real estate, family members of many residents of Russia were appropriated. but Russia didn’t exist yet! But now we simply must declare ourselves heirs and present the bill to Mongolia. Who agrees?
    1. Ptah
      Ptah 16 December 2013 19: 18 New
      +3
      Quote: andrey-ivanov
      Oh, we are Russian muddlers! Money, property, real estate, family members of many inhabitants of Russia were appropriated.

      Take "shirshe", Andryush. What are you so "wedge caught" on the Tartar-Mongols in the topic about the Jews wrung out through the rotten approach from the "fiercely against them" Germans. Type in a search engine, do not read attention to adherents of internationalism! - "DENACIFICATION OF GERMANY". Just think about what happened to the NATION. WITH THE GERMAN NATION !!! Not to be confused with Hitlerism.
      With the German nation !!! Schiller who gave birth (not a pimple Schindler, obroz. Those who learned it for state funds;
      Goethe ... (who among the readers does not know a couple of his lines for memory?) Ugandoshili Germashka ..... trained ..... Russia to get ready ......

      Please, comrades, remind me of a RUSSIAN MAN with a "yabreyskiy surname", than I am obliged "for reparations" to slobber the Israeli Navy. but my, in fact, a nut, is chasing ...
      Well, you understand .....
      1. faraon1
        faraon1 17 December 2013 05: 31 New
        -1
        Please, comrades, remind me of a RUSSIAN MAN with a "yabreyskiy surname", than I am obliged "for reparations" to slobber the Israeli Navy. but my, in fact, a nut, is chasing ...
        Well, you understand ...

        And, not drooling, and do not unfasten, you are a patriot of Russia, not Germany. And in general, what are you doing there, that you wanted to drink sausages with Bavarian beer?
        And didn’t you think about why the vanquished live better than the winners?
        So I will answer you it is necessary to work for the good of the Motherland in Russia, and not for the good of great Germany.
  • samoletil18
    samoletil18 16 December 2013 20: 27 New
    +1
    Quote: Tourist's Breakfast
    the state of Israel declared itself the heir of these people and on this basis received compensation from Germany in the early 50s, EMNIP

    This is what an ethnic group can do, where there are more lawyers than peasants and workers
    1. samoletil18
      samoletil18 16 December 2013 21: 12 New
      +2
      Somehow I have no doubt from whom "-"
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. atalef
      atalef 17 December 2013 13: 39 New
      -3
      Quote: samoletil18
      This is what an ethnic group can do, where there are more lawyers than peasants and workers

      You need to learn, then you don’t have to go for the plow.
      1. samoletil18
        samoletil18 17 December 2013 16: 32 New
        +3
        Quote: atalef
        Quote: samoletil18
        This is what an ethnic group can do, where there are more lawyers than peasants and workers

        You need to learn, then you don’t have to go for the plow.

        Personally, I am a doctor, but I also served the homeland, and worked at the plant - as a simple worker, which I am not ashamed of
  • faraon
    faraon 16 December 2013 15: 49 New
    -2
    I completely agree with you, the state did not exist but the people existed. Well, until 1948 this strip of land was called Palestine and there was Jewish limited presence on it for all ages, this is an indisputable fact, and if representatives of the British administration allowed Jews from Palestine Europe, then perhaps the Holocaust and these reparations would not have happened.
    1. sasska
      sasska 17 December 2013 00: 06 New
      +2
      and you have not tried to join the Jewish Autonomous Region to Israel? there, too, was and is now "there was a limited Jewish presence"?
      if the representatives of the British administration allowed Jews from Europe to Palestine, then the Holocaust would probably not have happened
      oh, don’t tell my slippers!
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 17 December 2013 00: 12 New
        -3
        Quote: sasska
        and you have not tried to join the Jewish Autonomous Region to Israel? there, too, was and is now "there was a limited Jewish presence"?
        if the representatives of the British administration let Jews from Europe into Palestine, then perhaps the Holocaust wouldn’t happen, oh, don’t tell my slippers!

        And again trolling. 8)
      2. faraon1
        faraon1 17 December 2013 05: 47 New
        0
        And why did you say that? Birobidzhan is the capital of the Jewish autonomous region where today about 80% of the Russian-speaking population lives. What does Israel have to do with the Far Eastern region of Russia.
  • atalef
    atalef 16 December 2013 22: 46 New
    -3
    Quote: Mairos
    I emphasize and repeat - the Jewish people suffered, yes! STATES Israel DID NOT EXIST during the 2 World War !! How could he be the most affected if he was neither de jure nor de facto ?!

    Yes, what to do with that. that after the Second World War it was this affected people who began to live in Germany. Yes, in general. What do you all think German grandmothers? It’s better to calculate how many * reparations * from the USSR were taken from Vietnam and Cuba. to all the Arab countries and half of Africa. And then the Soviet Union when the war broke out?
  • Pimply
    Pimply 17 December 2013 00: 33 New
    -1
    Quote: Mairos
    I emphasize and repeat - the Jewish people suffered, yes! STATES Israel DID NOT EXIST during the 2 World War !! How could he be the most affected if he was neither de jure nor de facto ?!

    AND? You do not know that before long before you asked this question, and even long before you were born, very specific answers were given to it. I recommend you to do history.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 17 December 2013 00: 20 New
    -1
    Quote: Mairos
    oh well .. half of Europe)) Don't tell me. There are mostly ruins left. Well, in the end, the USSR defeated Germany and had the right to reparation, and Israel, as a state, which side was involved in this victory? Sir, these are purely "lawyer's" quirks - cleverness in its purest form. It would be okay to pay compensation directly to individuals - okay, but to the State of Israel, from which side to give the perfection?

    Such that the German government considered itself obligated to compensate the surviving Jews for the death and robbery of a third of the nation. Before the war, there were 16 million Jews. After her left 12.

    You may not see reasons - this is purely your problem. The government of Germany sees these reasons.
  • Rider
    Rider 16 December 2013 22: 53 New
    +3
    Quote: faraon
    After the Great Patriotic War, half of Europe was exported from the USSR for reparations. Almost all industry was exported from Germany.

    this I understand the scope!
    but didn’t take the black earth from the Deutschland of the USSR?
    Of course, I know that equipment from factories was taken out of non-metal, but your frivolous statement FLOOR OF EUROPE, this is too much.
    you would cut the sturgeon (or hold the tongue)
    Quote: faraon
    and also values ​​that have no price from the Dresden Gallery were exported.


    and you do not know that the Dresden Gallery of the USSR returned Germany?
    or the main thing is to blurt out?

    and returned after restoration!

    you'd better study the history of the subject under discussion.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. atalef
      atalef 17 December 2013 09: 30 New
      +1
      Quote: Rider
      Now I understand the scope! But didn’t take the chernozem from the Deutschland of the USSR?


      Your irony does not cancel the fact of receiving Soviet reparations from Germany
      The following agreement was reached at the Potsdam Conference 1945: USSR reparation claims will be satisfied by seizure from the eastern zone of Germany and through German assets located in Bulgaria, Finland, Hungary, Romania and East Austria

      Ie not only at the expense of Germany, then move on to the list
      According to the data of the Main Trophy Directorate published by Russian researchers Mikhail Semiryaga and Boris Knyshevsky in the 1990 years, about 400 thousand railway cars, including 72 thousand construction material cars, 2885 plants, 96 power plants, 340 thousand, were exported from Germany to the USSR machine tools, 200 thousand electric motors, 1 million 335 thousand livestock, 2,3 million tons of grain, million tons of potatoes and vegetables, half a million tons of fat and sugar, 20 million liters of alcohol, 16 tons of tobacco. Telescopes from the Humboldt University Astronomical Observatory, Berlin subway cars and cruise liners were brought to the USSR. In particular, in 1950, the Compressor Plant [1], which is being built in Krasnodar, was equipped with confiscated technological, energy and lifting equipment from Germany. In the city of Kemerovo, at the enterprise KOAO Azot, to this day, captured trophy compressors 1947 manufactured by the Schwarzkopf company are used.

      At the Central Telephone Station in Moscow, the numbers of which began at “222” and which served, inter alia, the Central Committee of the CPSU, until the 1980-s the equipment of the telephone center of the Reich Chancellery was used. According to historian and economist Gavriil Popov, even the eavesdropping technique used by the Soviet state security after the war was of German origin.

      According to the German side, in Russia and the CIS countries there are currently about 200 of thousands of museum exhibits taken out after the war, two million books and three kilometers of archive folders.

      60 thousand grand pianos, 460 thousand radio sets, 190 thousand rugs, 940 thousand pieces of furniture, 265 thousand wall and table clocks, which were mainly distributed for a small fee between Soviet nomenclature orders and were officially confiscated from residents of the Soviet zone of occupation of Germany senior officers. The documents of the trophy department also include 1,2 million male and female coats, 1 million headdresses and 186 wine cars

      I am absolutely sure - this is the little that Germany was obliged to pay and paid. In my opinion, she paid so little and must continue to pay all those who suffered from Hitler - to pay as long as the last veteran, invalid, prisoner of the Second World War is alive.
      1. Rider
        Rider 17 December 2013 12: 53 New
        +1
        Quote: atalef
        Your irony does not cancel the fact of receiving Soviet reparations from Germany

        yes does not cancel.

        however, I would like to know the SOURCE of your numbers.
        if he is from here http://ru.exrus.eu/%D0%A2%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%84%D0%B5%D0%B9%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F-%D0%93
        %D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F--id4f4106246ccc196f162480c4

        it looks really biased.

        You really give the data of the "researchers" themselves, otherwise I remember the USSR at that time and admitted guilt for Katyn.
        but the trouble is, those "secret documents" turned out to be so secret that the Poles, after their transfer, did not publish them.

        to whip up were arrogant.

        not from the same folder your information?
        1. atalef
          atalef 17 December 2013 13: 06 New
          -4
          Quote: Rider
          You really give the data of the "researchers" themselves, otherwise I remember at that time the USSR and acknowledged the guilt for Katyn. But the trouble is, those "secret documents" turned out to be so secret that the Poles, after their transfer, never published them.

          Present your facts - if mine do not fit. Or do you discard the very fact of obtaining Soviet reparations?
          1. Rider
            Rider 17 December 2013 13: 19 New
            +3
            Quote: atalef
            Present your facts - if mine do not fit. Or do you discard the very fact of obtaining Soviet reparations?

            you please do not get out.
            since we started to "debunk the myth" so be so kind as to confirm your words.
            and according to a sample made from the quotations you cited, on ALL Internet found only ONE (the same article) reprinted in many publications.
            even the document of the commission of Smiryaga and Kneshivsky did not find.
            all requests return to this article.

            here doubts torment me
            - was there a boy -

            and I do not dispute the fact of reparations.
            however, the USSR suffered from aggression, had the right to it.

            What aggression did Israel suffer from?
            1. atalef
              atalef 17 December 2013 14: 29 New
              -1
              Quote: Rider
              you please do not get out. Since you have already undertaken to "debunk the myth" so be so kind as to confirm your words.

              I presented my evidence - I do not like it - imagine yours. Who gets out, so in my opinion you - or evidence in the studio

              Quote: Rider
              and according to a sample made from the quotations you cited, on ALL Internet found only ONE (the same article) reprinted in many publications.

              Find a refutation or present your version of how much and when did the USSR receive reparations?
              Quote: Rider
              I didn’t even find the document of the commission of Smiryaga and Knezivsky.

              I sure found something else, like
              http://www.bing.com/search?q=&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IE8SRC
              http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/russian/russia/newsid_6634000/6634155.stm
              http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/russian/russia/newsid_6634000/6634155.stm
              What kind of Internet do you have - or are you not able to search?
              Just dial German reparations of the USSR
              How much interesting
              Quote: Rider
              however, the USSR suffered from aggression, had the right to it. What aggression did Israel suffer from?

              Jews lived not only in the USSR and their descendants, like the survivors, but deprived of everything by the Nazis, had the right to compensation - or you have the same problems, but the fact that they moved to live in Israel is like that. Further, all that the Nazis confiscated, and the owners were destroyed (Jews), and there were no heirs left, the German government decided that Israel was the legal successor to this property.
              Or is this the same kind of problem you have?
              Maybe here somehow Russian - Soviet grandmother hesitated? What kind of pfening in someone else's pocket does my heart hurt?
              1. Rider
                Rider 17 December 2013 15: 18 New
                +1
                hello atalef!
                I asked you to provide a DOCUMENT.
                and not a link to ONE AND ALREADY article.
                and it is YOUR duty to CONFIRM YOUR WORDS.
                you blurted out about 10500 miles of wagons of goods transported to the USSR. you and confirm that it was.
                bother not to be unfounded.
                Quote: atalef
                Nazis were entitled to compensation

                had, that's just how much compensation should be paid?
                one-time?
                annually?
                forever?
                You don’t find what to demand compensation after 60 years is already too much?
                You demanded documents, and you read the recommended book by me?
                and there it is written in black and white that the Jewish holocaust organizations
                They demanded (and received) money from Switzerland from the Jews stored in the accounts of 2MB.

                do not you think that demanding someone else's money (after all, most depositors have died) is it like a hutspa of the highest standard?

                you still read the book
                then you will ask less silly questions.
                1. atalef
                  atalef 17 December 2013 15: 34 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Rider
                  Ale Atalef! I asked you to provide a DOCUMENT. And not a link to ONE AND ALREADY article

                  Read carefully . there is not one and the same article. Further, you have something to refute? Even if this would be one article (which is not the case) - it is much more than yours since you did not set anything at all
                  besides his verbiage
                  Quote: Rider
                  had, that's just how much compensation should be paid? one-time? annually? forever? you don’t find what to demand compensation after 60 years is already too much?

                  All claims against the German government. as please your opinion on this article
                  Nazi victims from Poland, Russia, Ukraine and Belarus called on the German railways Deutsche Bahn to pay 445 compensation in the amount of millions of euros for transporting people to death camps during the Second World War.

                  On Friday, at a press conference in Warsaw, representatives of veteran organizations said that this call was signed by more than 20 organizations from Poland, Russia, Ukraine and Belarus, including the Polish Association of Victims of the Third Reich, the Ukrainian Union of Prisoners - Victims of Nazism, the Belarusian Association of Former prisoners of German concentration camps, as well as the International Union of Young Victims of Nazism, whose members are citizens of 11 states of the former USSR, RIA Novosti reports.


                  Quote: Rider
                  You demanded documents, and you read the recommended book by me?

                  And you, recommended by me?
                  Or maybe they somehow answered my questions with a document - apart from drooling, no intelligible answers
                  Quote: Rider
                  do not you think that demanding someone else's money (after all, most depositors have died) is it like a hutspa of the highest standard?

                  In addition, you also have knowledge of Hebrew.
                  By the way, Russia claims the legacy of Berezovsky, how about this?
                  Quote: Rider
                  you still read the book, then you will ask less silly questions.

                  You offer me to read Israel Shamir laughing
                2. Rider
                  Rider 17 December 2013 15: 49 New
                  +1
                  Quote: atalef
                  . there is not one and the same article. Further, you have something to refute? Even if this would be one article (which is not the case) - it is much more than yours since you did not set anything at all

                  article ONE AND SAME.
                  just the links are different.
                  but since you said "A"
                  Please confirm your arguments.
                  Quote: atalef
                  as please your opinion on this article

                  firstly, you must provide a reference to the original, and not just the text.
                  as for my opinion, this is a regular hop-stop.
                  dug up the railways, and then what?
                  the auto industry, whose vehicles sometimes transported prisoners?
                  or immediately to the owners of the autobahns on which prisoners traveled / drove / went?
                  do not you think that this is stupidity in terms of logic, and meanness in terms of morality of a NORMAL person.
                  Quote: atalef
                  In addition, you also have knowledge of Hebrew.

                  I have already advised you twenty times to read the book "The Holocaust Industry" but you refuse with persistence worthy of a better application.
                  then what to talk about?
                  Quote: atalef
                  You offer me to read Israel Shamir

                  did not even hear about this.
                  but all the same, can you ARGUMENTALLY refute the author you don’t like so much?

                  at least once cite a DECENT source as an argument.
                  not a tabloid article.
                3. The comment was deleted.
                4. atalef
                  atalef 17 December 2013 16: 01 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Rider
                  at least once bring as an argument a DECENT source. but not a tabloid article

                  I understand perfectly well that all sources that you do not like or do not fit your opinion are a priori not worthy. You would rather refute me at least somehow - flattering in your opinion. And then naked flood and idle talk. You can not refute. so wrong. hi
                  By the way, what about 4's tobacco factories throughout the USSR - will the same remain exclusively your truth? Or confirm your words somehow? laughing
                5. Rider
                  Rider 17 December 2013 16: 26 New
                  +1
                  Quote: atalef
                  I understand perfectly well that all sources that you do not like or do not fit your opinion are a priori not worthy

                  so you bring WELCOME sources.
                  and not the speculations of the "truth-writers"
                  because I could not even find this commission.
                  and tobacco factories
                  here please
                  Large tobacco enterprises: Leningrad factory them. Uritsky, Rostov factory (DGTF), Moscow factories "Java" and "Dukat", Krasnodar and Chisinau combines.
                  http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/bse/137682/%D0%A2%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%B0%D1%87%D0%BD%D
                  0% B0% D1% 8F

                  there are 6 of them, plus a few smaller ones.
                  but I am sorry that this information was laid out by me from the memory of more than 7 years ago.
                  Then I had an electronic archive with a lot of interesting data.
                  but unfortunately, the tin burned out and they all disappeared.

                  however, you will confirm your words, or as usual get off with a flood?
    3. carbofo
      carbofo 23 December 2013 10: 59 New
      0
      Quote: atalef
      . Or do you discard the very fact of obtaining Soviet reparations?

      They are legal, secured by the unconditional surrender of Germany, and the corresponding agreement.
      And what have you got to do with it?
  • atalef
    atalef 17 December 2013 13: 06 New
    -1
    Quote: Rider
    You really give the data of the "researchers" themselves, otherwise I remember at that time the USSR and acknowledged the guilt for Katyn. But the trouble is, those "secret documents" turned out to be so secret that the Poles, after their transfer, never published them.

    Present your facts - if mine do not fit. Or do you discard the very fact of obtaining Soviet reparations?
  • spravochnik
    spravochnik 18 December 2013 02: 48 New
    +2
    As for the Dresden Gallery, you are a lie. All her masterpieces were SAVED by the Soviet troops, restored and returned to the Dresden Gallery back in the 50s, after its restoration (in which Soviet specialists also helped). By the way, how many works of art were exported from the USSR and still not returned?
  • Pimply
    Pimply 17 December 2013 00: 10 New
    -5
    Quote: Papakiko
    So let's pay reparations to Russians in equal proportion with the Israeli kalakost and then we will think about kosher

    How beautiful. You so earnestly earn yourself a ban and a possible lawsuit. Continue, I am very happy 8)
    1. smirnov
      smirnov 17 December 2013 01: 31 New
      -1
      Pypyrchaty today you are irresistible, how long did you have to wait, do you take notes?
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 17 December 2013 01: 57 New
        -2
        Quote: smirnov
        Pypyrchaty today you are irresistible, how long did you have to wait, do you take notes?


        No, besides the site, I actually have life.
  • Ruslan
    Ruslan 16 December 2013 11: 07 New
    0
    here is nonsense. in the minds of Germans, Vava is large and not overgrowing.
  • Know-nothing
    Know-nothing 16 December 2013 11: 17 New
    -5
    Can the Israelis melt the Russian Mediterranean squadron?
    1. Santa Fe
      16 December 2013 11: 22 New
      -1
      The question was not correctly asked, comrade Dunno

      How many minutes Israeli Dolphins will deal with the former. Soviet tankers, tugs and landing barges, pretending to be warships for solidity
      1. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm 16 December 2013 12: 00 New
        +1
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        How many minutes Israeli Dolphins will deal with the former. Soviet tankers, tugs and landing barges, pretending to be warships for solidity

        Iran has some experience with minefields.
        1. faraon
          faraon 16 December 2013 15: 16 New
          0
          Iran has some experience with minefields

          Exactly what is not which. And this fact is also taken into account.
          1. saturn.mmm
            saturn.mmm 16 December 2013 17: 36 New
            +1
            Quote: faraon
            Exactly what is not which. And this fact is also taken into account.

            Was some of Hezbollah's anti-tank experience also taken into account in 2006?
            1. faraon1
              faraon1 17 December 2013 05: 37 New
              0
              This is not an indicator, hezbollah is already paying for it.
              1. sasska
                sasska 18 December 2013 14: 12 New
                0
                well something like that laughing
      2. sub307
        sub307 16 December 2013 12: 34 New
        +2
        "Dolphins" in air-independent performance and with our 877th project have very good chances to "deal".
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. Flooding
        Flooding 16 December 2013 13: 34 New
        +3
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        How many minutes Israeli Dolphins will deal with the former. Soviet tankers, tugs and landing barges, pretending to be warships for solidity

        Do not exaggerate. I think BOD is not so toothless even against modern submarines.
    2. faraon
      faraon 16 December 2013 14: 30 New
      +1
      And actually, what does the Mediterranean squadron represent? - something that could tear itself away from the mooring wall in Sevastopol, according to the statement of the representative of the US naval department, which does not pose a real threat to the 6th US fleet.

      Let’s look at the facts realistically, without cheers of patriotic statements, China has now overtaken Russia in all respects in terms of armaments. While it is silent but not far away, when it starts to snap.
      And YOU reparations why Israel submarines, the Germans are fools ......
      1. Mairos
        Mairos 16 December 2013 15: 31 New
        +1
        Are you delusional? What does it mean "Now China has already overtaken Russia in all indicators of armament"?
        Are you talking about quality or about quantity? If about quality, then drive bullshit. If the amount ..)) Then let's measure the nuclear missile potential.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Santa Fe
          16 December 2013 16: 28 New
          +2
          Quote: Mairos
          Are you talking about quality or about quantity?

          And about the quality, and about the quantity


          Air defense destroyer type 051S. Equipped with the S-300FM complex - as on the nuclear cruiser "Peter the Great". The Chinese copied the air defense system under the designation HQ-9 - the following ships of the PLA Navy were equipped with this particular system of their own production


          And here is the 448 radar of the S-300FM air defense system on the Liuzhou destroyer

          Quote: Mairos
          Then let's measure nuclear missile potential.

          can and measure

          SSBNs of the 094 type, armed with 12 ballistic missiles Juilan-2 (the first stage is a turbojet engine, the second stage is a liquid-propellant rocket engine, the launch range of 8-12 is thousand km, up to 10 RGCh IN is the load weight up to 3 tons). During the 1999-2010 year, 4 boats of this type were built. They continue to build, the new modification will be equipped with 16 missiles

          Chinese frigates visiting Malta this summer. This is a type of 054, from 2007 of the year the Chinese built 15 of such ships, and 2 are still being completed
        3. faraon
          faraon 16 December 2013 17: 10 New
          +1
          Are you delusional? What does it mean "Now China has already overtaken Russia in all indicators of armament"

          I haven’t even smoked or drank, I just see what China is doing for itself and what it is sending for export to Russia. Believe me, China now has unmeasured means of the latest technology, which make it possible to quickly and cheaply produce high-quality everything from condoms to spacecraft (production lunar rover China is already on the moon), and YOU say China
    3. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 17 December 2013 13: 25 New
      -2
      Quote: Dunno
      Can the Israelis melt the Russian Mediterranean squadron?


      You dear region made a mistake a little, think for yourself, the so-called "squadron" and 400 combat aircraft at a distance of 20 minutes of summer .... stupid question fool
      1. carbofo
        carbofo 20 December 2013 14: 29 New
        +1
        Well, a hydrogen bomb doesn’t care what kind of right guys live in the affected area. Think.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • xomaNN
    xomaNN 16 December 2013 12: 10 New
    +3
    In the photo, the submarine looks like a harmless keg wink And BIUS and GUS are really strong on them.
  • ed65b
    ed65b 16 December 2013 13: 11 New
    +5
    Well, of course, the Jews in their German boats sleep and see how they will sink Russian pigs on rusty troughs. Are you the Jewish apologists who decided so seriously? And ho ho not hehe? Zaebut .. swallow dust.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 17 December 2013 00: 43 New
      -2
      Quote: ed65b
      Well, of course, the Jews in their German boats sleep and see how they will sink Russian pigs on rusty troughs. Are you the Jewish apologists who decided so seriously? And ho ho not hehe? Zaebut .. swallow dust.

      Do not invest your complexes in the mouths of others.
  • faraon
    faraon 16 December 2013 13: 38 New
    +3
    Let’s take a look on the other hand, whether the Jews need to sink Russian ships, that they have no other problems. The country is concerned about guarding its sea borders, as well as protecting its shelf. Moreover, there are good reasons for this. The frigates have ordered, they are waiting completion of work on boats, this is normal friendship is good but gunpowder should be dry anyway.
    1. just exp
      just exp 16 December 2013 14: 00 New
      +3
      and why when you defend your interests, it is democratic and deserves worldwide approval, encouragement and financial infusion, but as other countries do the same, it is a mordor and an attempt to change the balance of power in the region, and, accordingly, an occasion to impose sanctions for the bombing as well?
      or according to the type of quotas, Yovi is a lyceum, is it a non-Bowie? and who told you that you are Yovi?
      1. faraon
        faraon 16 December 2013 14: 49 New
        0
        and why when you defend your interests, it is democratic and deserves worldwide approval, encouragement and financial infusion, but as other countries do the same, it is a mordor and an attempt to change the balance of power in the region, and, accordingly, an occasion to impose sanctions for the bombing as well?

        Well, let’s start from the very beginning. Israel during its existence never threatened its neighbors and did not declare war. And also did not show any aggression to its neighbors, who treacherously attacked him 6 times for the purpose of destruction, and suffered defeat. This forces Israel to have a strong army and navy equipped with the most modern weapons. And it will not tolerate an invasion of its territory, as well as a violation of its borders. This is the East, respect the strong and crush the weak. Despite nationality, or religion, which we observe in a number of countries with Muslim religion
        1. just exp
          just exp 16 December 2013 15: 05 New
          +3
          Well, just I don’t need to tell fables, otherwise I somehow remember the story of the creation of the state of Israel, and about the methods in the same way, and stop making innocent lambs from myself.
          Threat Iran YOU began to threaten even BEFORE Ahmadinejad began his style of rhetoric about "erase Israel", I have been following this topic since 2003 and I remember very well who first started.
          1. faraon
            faraon 16 December 2013 15: 14 New
            +1
            Well, just I do not need to tell fables

            Here you are not quite right, Iran, before the revolution, worked closely with Israel in all sectors of both industry and agriculture. Israeli hospitals treated the country's top leadership and probably would have continued, but then a revolution came about and Iran changed its priorities, hence the misunderstanding, Well, when Ahmedinidzhad arrived, then generally the threat of the destruction of the state came from him, and these were not salon conversations but messages to the whole world.
            What do you think the Israeli government should have responded to these statements.? That’s the whole point of the conflict, the point is not that Iran is building nuclear power plants, the other is that Iran enriches uranium to weapons-grade, but this cannot be allowed from Israel.
            1. just exp
              just exp 16 December 2013 16: 03 New
              +3
              the fact that Iran changed its pro-American (and therefore loyal to Israel) course with the arrival of the ayatollah is a fact, but it was a different matter, the Iranian nuclear program originates a long time ago, although in fact it is the end of the 90s, the technological threshold was passed in 2003 when Iran is already guaranteed got the result he needed and in THEORY he could develop nuclear weapons, Israel then screamed all over the world and called for bombing Iran, then Iran was silent in a rag and nobody threatened Israel with anything, and then in 2003, American intelligence officially recognized that Iran nuclear weapons It does NOT work out, but Israel did not stop it, the cries of the whole world continued, and after a year and a half, it’s evident that the annoyed Ahmadi is already beginning to start retaliatory rhetoric, and lo and behold, all that Ahmadinejad said was presented by the West one-sided and it seemed that Ahmadi was insane, and Israel is holy, and no one wrote anything that Israel said the same thing against Iran.
              standards they are so double double.
              but what cuts down the most is the fact that Israeli citizens consider themselves so educated and smart, in fact they sometimes allow us to carry such nonsense about this (not you specifically) that it’s a shame for the human race at all.
              1. faraon
                faraon 16 December 2013 17: 13 New
                0
                Well, the fact that you are defending Ahmadenijad is YOUR right, but why does he need plutonium enriched to the level of weapons. You think about it, and not that he is building a nuclear power plant,
                1. carbofo
                  carbofo 16 December 2013 18: 39 New
                  +4
                  Quote: faraon
                  but why does he need plutonium enriched to the level of an arms

                  Plutonium is never weapons-grade; plutonium is plutonium not to be confused with uranium.
                  1. And Us Rat
                    And Us Rat 17 December 2013 22: 14 New
                    -2
                    Quote: carbofo

                    Plutonium is never weapons-free ...


                    Less for lack of education.

                    Weapon-grade plutonium is plutonium in the form of a compact metal containing at least 93,5% of the 239 Pu isotope. Designed to create nuclear weapons.
                    They call him "Armory" to distinguish it from "reactor". Plutonium is formed in any nuclear reactor operating on natural or low enriched uranium, containing mainly the 238 U isotope, when it captures excess neutrons. But as the reactor operates, the weapons-grade isotope of plutonium quickly burns out, as a result, a large number of 240 Pu, 241 Pu and 242 Pu isotopes accumulate in successive captures of several neutrons accumulate in the reactor, since the burnup depth is usually determined by economic factors. The smaller the burnup depth, the less isotopes 240 Pu, 241 Pu and 242 Pu will contain plutonium extracted from irradiated nuclear fuel, but the smaller the amount of plutonium in the fuel.
                    The special production of plutonium for weapons containing almost exclusively 239 Pu is required mainly because isotopes with mass numbers 240 and 242 create a high neutron background, making it difficult to construct effective nuclear munitions, in addition, 240 Pu and 241 Pu have a significantly shorter period half-life than 239 Pu, because of which the plutonium parts are heated, and the heat sink elements have to be additionally introduced into the design of the nuclear munition. Even pure 239 Pu is warmer than the human body. In addition, the decay products of heavy isotopes spoil the metal crystal lattice, which can lead to a change in the shape of plutonium parts, which is fraught with a failure of a nuclear explosive device.
                2. just exp
                  just exp 16 December 2013 18: 58 New
                  +3
                  and who said that Iran produces plutonium?
                  maybe it’s enough to slander other people just because you don’t like them?
                  1. sasska
                    sasska 17 December 2013 00: 15 New
                    +2
                    this is how prerequisites are created.
                    and then money can be demanded for "threatening the existence of peaceful Jewry"
                    1. Pimply
                      Pimply 17 December 2013 01: 16 New
                      -1
                      Quote: sasska
                      this is how prerequisites are created.
                      and then money can be demanded for "threatening the existence of peaceful Jewry"

                      Interestingly, your grandfathers fought against Nazism. And you carefully follow his dogmas. Bravo.
                      1. carbofo
                        carbofo 17 December 2013 12: 20 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Pimply
                        Interestingly, your grandfathers fought against Nazism. And you carefully follow his dogmas. Bravo.

                        What does it have to do with this, don’t interfere with poop with honey.
                        Peaceful Jewry is the most militarized state in the world.
                        Yes, they fought with us, but what did you do, took the land from the poor? original occupation, while our grandfathers were protecting their home.
                        And after that, you still have the right to say something!?
                  2. Pimply
                    Pimply 17 December 2013 00: 44 New
                    -1
                    Quote: just explo
                    and who said that Iran produces plutonium?
                    maybe it’s enough to slander other people just because you don’t like them?

                    The IAEA, for example, presents very clear reports. Russia supports sanctions - if you are not in the know.
                  3. carbofo
                    carbofo 17 December 2013 15: 16 New
                    +1
                    Quote: just explo
                    and who said that Iran produces plutonium?

                    Well, let's say they have a reactor that produces plutonium, and it works on uranium, somehow.
                    You don’t even have to make an atomic bomb out of plutonium, just spray it on the ground.
                  4. And Us Rat
                    And Us Rat 17 December 2013 22: 34 New
                    -1
                    Quote: just EXPL
                    and who said that Iran produces plutonium


                    Plutonium is planned to be produced at the heavy water plant in Arak.
        2. Rider
          Rider 16 December 2013 23: 18 New
          +1
          Quote: faraon
          Well, let’s start from the very beginning. Israel, during its existence, never threatened its neighbors, and did not declare war. Nor did it show any aggression to its neighbors, who treacherously attacked him 6 times for the purpose of destruction, and were defeated.

          Well, you should better study the history of your country.
          ask who started the six-day war.

          no, I understand that the decision was ABSOLUTELY correct (from a military point of view)
          but you should not say that you are so peaceful, peaceful, and NEVER attacked first.

          Well, about the Lebanon war 82g, it’s also worth mentioning, because there is not everything clear, in the sense of the CTO, he started first.
          1. Pimply
            Pimply 17 December 2013 00: 45 New
            -1
            Quote: Rider
            Well, you should better study the history of your country.
            ask who started the six-day war.

            And I would recommend that you study the reasons for the outbreak of war. For example, the pulling of troops to the borders of Israel, the demand by the Arab countries for the withdrawal of UN troops, as well as the interception of radio communications and memoirs of military leaders of that time.

            Israel has no opportunity to retreat deep into the country, as Russia did in World War II and in the Patriotic War, for example.
    2. Far East
      Far East 16 December 2013 14: 22 New
      +6
      Quote: faraon
      The country is concerned about the protection of its maritime borders, as well as the protection of its shelf.

      I studied in the USSR. Dear! explain to me., what kind of their land! without sarcasm, with respect! and facts! hi
      1. faraon
        faraon 16 December 2013 15: 04 New
        +1
        I studied in the USSR. Dear! explain to me., what kind of their land! without sarcasm, with respect! and facts!

        I also studied in the USSR, but there history did not say why Israel began to grow in territories and on what basis. Since the creation of the state of Israel there have been six wars and many minor military conflicts. In addition, Israel was not the initiator of these wars. In the process of victories, Israel began to grow in order to protect itself from neighboring countries, that is, annexed the territory. After signing the peace treaties, he returned the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt. Jordan refused East Jerusalem and lands to Jordan, but also signed a peace treaty with the proviso that the lands are transferred to Israel but with minor restrictions, namely Jordan is actively involved in deciding the exploitation of these lands. With Syria, the treaty was not signed as she did not agree with the annexation of the Dutch Heights. but this is her right, and not the right of the winner.
        Well, the last one, don’t you think if Israel transfers the land to the Palestinian leadership tomorrow, as it is commonly called (occupied), then after tomorrow the Jordanian army will go in there and put things in order without any democratic norms.
        1. Far East
          Far East 16 December 2013 15: 19 New
          +2
          Quote: faraon
          Well, the last one, don’t you think if Israel transfers the land to the Palestinian leadership tomorrow, as it is commonly called (occupied), then after tomorrow the Jordanian army will go in there and put things in order without any democratic norms.

          I do not know! what will the Jordanians do! I am not a predictor! but to be honest it’s not your land! if so then we need to give almost all of Europe! hi
          1. faraon
            faraon 16 December 2013 16: 12 New
            +3
            You see, you yourself answered your own question, but no one has canceled the right of a winner in the war. In any case, as regards modern history. And as for the ancient, it is ancient Israel that has archaeological evidence. Well, finally, if you take the religious part of the question here and there is the Torah, and the Bible indicates who and how came to this land, who lived on this land before the arrival of the Jews and by whom it was conquered, in any case, the right of the winner. And this cannot be denied. As Russia’s exit to black the sea, access to the Baltic Sea and much more that relates to Russian history.
            1. Far East
              Far East 16 December 2013 16: 21 New
              +3
              Quote: faraon
              as for ancient, this is ancient Israel; there is archaeological evidence for this.

              I do not dispute this! and now I ask you to explain to me why YOU do not like! it is fundamentally! from your lips! without sarcasm with respect! hi
              1. faraon1
                faraon1 17 December 2013 06: 07 New
                +1
                I’ll answer you something like this: Israel is not a red girl to love him or not. Let it be a small but self-sufficient country that wants to live in peace with its neighbors. (Jordan, Egypt is an example) If someone is an eyesore of reparation from Germany, then take it easy, the German government decided to compensate for the damage it caused to the Jews. As regards the military budget, Israel must be a strong country with strong armed forces to resist any aggressor.
                And love or not love is your right, only while living in Israel I constantly see how my former compatriots come to Israel and see everything with my own eyes (the oppressed Palestinian people driving in cool cars, living in more respectable houses than the average Russian resident. Receiving medical world-class service, without paying bribes, or buying medicine for your treatment.
                1. Far East
                  Far East 17 December 2013 10: 43 New
                  +2
                  Quote: faraon1
                  Israel is not a red girl to love him

                  Dear, I'm not talking about Israel! I'm talking about nationality! I LIVE BETTER! all of you taken, notice in YOUR COUNTRY!
                  Quote: faraon1
                  than the average resident of Russia at home. He receives medical care at the level of international standards, while not paying bribes, and not buying medicines for his treatment.

                  and we are stooped! laughing but honestly! you say again, you’re white-fluffy and don’t take bribes from you! fellow hi
                  1. Pimply
                    Pimply 17 December 2013 12: 50 New
                    0
                    Quote: Far East
                    and we are stooped! but honestly! you say again, you’re white-fluffy and don’t take bribes from you!

                    They take it. And most importantly - they plant for it. In Israel, the level of corruption is 31st in the world. Russia - 167th. Yes, and this is in the table, where the larger the number, the higher the level of corruption.
                  2. And Us Rat
                    And Us Rat 17 December 2013 13: 20 New
                    -1
                    Quote: Far East
                    ... and they don’t take bribes from you! fellow hi


                    As I understand it, it is almost physically difficult for you to realize the existence of a different managerial concept? request
        2. just exp
          just exp 16 December 2013 16: 06 New
          +2
          the fact is that in the Crimea in the first about the middle of the first millennium the Gottes lived, they had a kingdom there, all this is described in mythology and other sources, as I understand it, the Germans have every right to establish their own state on the basis of mythology?
          Threat I mean that the Torah is not a legal document and does not give a legal reason for the founding of a new state.
          1. faraon
            faraon 16 December 2013 16: 23 New
            +2
            Threat I mean that the Torah is not a legal document and does not give a legal reason for the founding of a new state.

            It is possible, but then the tale of the prophetic Oleg is also no reason to claim the Courland, Livonia and other lands.
            Yes, this is not a legal document, but Judaism is that root from which two more world religions were formed: Christianity and Islam, you will not deny.
            1. carbofo
              carbofo 16 December 2013 18: 42 New
              +1
              faraon al nusra do not care for your roots, they will eat your hearts, and nothing will help you, a matter of time.
              1. just exp
                just exp 16 December 2013 19: 09 New
                +2
                will not, they (the Islamists) are completely controlled by the Americans.
                1. carbofo
                  carbofo 17 December 2013 15: 19 New
                  +2
                  Quote: just explo
                  will not, they (the Islamists) are completely controlled by the Americans.

                  It can’t be stupid controlled, under control only those who manage the blanks, and the blanks themselves do not care who to cut. By the way, it was already a couple of years ago they caught a gang in Syria, so they were sure that they were fighting against the Jews !.
              2. faraon1
                faraon1 17 December 2013 06: 13 New
                0
                Israel doesn’t really care about this Al-Nusra. But I can only say that Israel is not Syria and will not think about the name and ethnicity for a long time. If necessary, they will find it on the edge of the earth and destroy it.
                Remember the case when an engineer from the Gaza Strip was removed from a train near Kharkov and after 4 hours they were interrogated in Israeli intelligence.
              3. And Us Rat
                And Us Rat 17 December 2013 22: 58 New
                -2
                Quote: carbofo
                faraon al nusra do not care for your roots, they will eat your hearts, and nothing will help you, a matter of time.


                Aaaga lol only bad luck ...

            2. just exp
              just exp 16 December 2013 19: 08 New
              +3
              and no one even says that the tale of the prophetic Oleg is a document that gives something right.
              this is a story about the inevitability of fate. all . there is nothing more in it, therefore Russia does not conquer Ukraine, because Kiev was the capital of Kiev RusI, although according to your logic we can do it (Western logic is generally an amazing thing, according to it the states can bomb one person (benny is wrong) and conquer the country (Afgan) and at the same time the damned eastern Mordor (Russia) cannot do the same with the holy and immaculate Great Britons, for not issuing zakay and other evil spirits).
              1. faraon1
                faraon1 17 December 2013 06: 18 New
                0
                And, no one claims, but I read and listened to lectures on history at Novgorod University, in particular with regard to the tale of the prophetic Oleg and what followed. Professor Shumilov introduced the lecture.

                Well, as for international relations, this is to Lavrov. He is more competent than me in this regard.
  • Panikovsky
    Panikovsky 16 December 2013 13: 49 New
    +5
    but fly in the middle of the ocean
    black flag and sails.
    eight Shmuley, three Nathan,
    at the stem of Isak.
  • Neighbor
    Neighbor 16 December 2013 14: 30 New
    0
    It turns out that if I have a heap of gypsies in my yard for my chicken, I’ll have to give the boat to him tomorrow. What if he wants a yacht?
  • barbiturate
    barbiturate 16 December 2013 15: 10 New
    +4
    A good article and a topic that has not been worn out) I have little information about these boats, I read it with pleasure, but the Jews are great, for a small country, as many as 6 modern NPLs are cool. Recall for fun, how many boats in Germany itself?)
    1. katsin2
      katsin2 16 December 2013 15: 13 New
      +3
      Well, at least someone was happy for us)))
      1. Panikovsky
        Panikovsky 16 December 2013 15: 42 New
        +3
        why don’t you rejoice, you’re your own, you can say relatives. as there Huberman:
        even the sword belts
        trotters dance softly.
        all Budenovites are Jews,
        because the Cossacks.
    2. Ptah
      Ptah 16 December 2013 16: 26 New
      +1
      Quote: barbiturate
      Recall for fun, how many boats in Germany itself?

      What is already here, at Edren shit Feigi, the "joke" will be funny for you, but the German Navy has 6 (!!!) boats of bn. U31-U36, of which only the first are in service 4, the rest are in the stage of acceptance. True, it must be said that the "oldest" was built in 2001, but giving such "swallows" to "sandy dromedary drivers" is akin to the behavior of "Serdyuk". Moreover, for nothing .....
      If we assume that the Middle East "come in large numbers" and have old troughs, then the country, one of the most effective members of NATO in armament, with centuries-old maritime traditions and experience in building the most advanced ships, has a smaller fleet than the occupiers in Palestine.
      Truly bedbugs .......

      Shl. And the one who "praised" you for "was glad" at the top is grimacing and rude under the second nickname, thereby violating the site's rules about accounts. And on his avatar is a photo of a snub-nosed (?!?!) Israeli soldier who has just "captured" the RUSSIAN CITY OF JERUSALEM. So that.....
      й
      1. Rider
        Rider 16 December 2013 23: 26 New
        -1
        Quote: Ptah
        RUSSIAN CITY OF JERUSALEM. So that.....

        (yo ... bent his head on the table)
        no, I’m kaneshno is also a terrible antisi ... uh, lover of matzo lovers.
        and I believe that the God-chosen ones are to blame for everything (apyori) even in the fact that the sun rises in the east (would rise in the west, we would sleep longer wassat )

        but since when has Jerusalem become Russian?
  • jjj
    jjj 16 December 2013 16: 29 New
    +1
    Boats of the German project 207 are quite an ancient project. The Germans themselves recognized it as not very successful and offered it for export. For themselves they have pr. 212. Here we see a shortened version with a poorly developed aft rudder. Doubts immediately arise about good handling. To stuff a forty-man crew, weapons, an engine and a power supply system, electronics, ballast tanks, etc., into such a hull. Apparently, after all, this is a boat for the defense of its coast. Well, like, like once in Russia there were "popovki"
  • faraon
    faraon 16 December 2013 16: 47 New
    +1
    Well, why did Germany need a larger fleet of imperial ambitions in 1945, it is a member of NATO, that is, it is automatically protected by the countries of the community.
    As for the occupation and occupiers, you obviously took a stick, and that’s why, based on your theory, Russia should give half of Europe and enter the principality of Moscow. Nobody canceled the winner of the war, Russia annexed the lands captured by the war, here Israel acts according to these rules. Remember all of eastern Europe how the USSR occupied it. Or it’s called a liberation campaign, of course, the people born from the brown plague said thanks and sacredly honor the memory of the dead Soviet soldiers. But who asked to impose socialism on countries that were initially oriented towards capitalist development
    1. Dimitri
      Dimitri 16 December 2013 17: 22 New
      +1
      Then how did the European countries oriented towards capitalist development create the socialist European Union with its planned economy?
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. faraon
      faraon 16 December 2013 17: 03 New
      0
      What can I tell you about this photograph, YOU deny the Holocaust of the Jewish people, deny the existence of a Jewish state, of course, your right, and they all deny what can be done in the family not without a freak.
      1. Santa Fe
        16 December 2013 17: 36 New
        0
        Quote: faraon
        YOU deny the Holocaust of the Jewish people, deny the existence of a Jewish state

        Oh really? Where did you read that?
        1. DimychDV
          DimychDV 16 December 2013 19: 18 New
          +4
          It would be nice for LGBT people who are only concerned about their problems to blame for neglecting the problems of the Holocaust. It will be the SIGN! Our Jewish friends of TAAAK salt will sprinkle on their tail !!! And they will beat, beat and beat until they make the reptiles pay indemnity in the amount of the annual budget of Germany. lol
          1. carbofo
            carbofo 17 December 2013 15: 49 New
            +1
            Quote: DimychDV
            It would be nice for LGBT people who are only concerned about their problems to blame for neglecting the problems of the Holocaust. It will be the SIGN! Our Jewish friends of TAAAK salt will sprinkle on their tail !!!

            Well, actually they have carbon-black songs, and those have something.
  • Ross
    Ross 16 December 2013 17: 39 New
    0
    Quote: ramsi
    I don’t understand who presses Germany so coolly? Or in the world there is not a single independent politician left

    Have you just found out about this?
  • vasiliysxx
    vasiliysxx 16 December 2013 18: 29 New
    0
    America’s floor will be washed off soon crying , Amers will not be up to the Jews, here they are from the sea and are arming themselves, and we will build a base in Tartus, sail for a visit hi
  • Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 16 December 2013 18: 42 New
    +1
    Here I am, in matters of the Navy, that in the Air Force, as the Chukchi, "Reader, not a writer." I read an article that as an Israeli cannot but interest me and really wanted to read serious comments about the strengths and weaknesses of the IDF Navy P / L, about the possibilities of their use, and what did I read? "You are such a Jew," "And you yourself are not better," and t / d and t / n. Mentally talked called.
    1. Rider
      Rider 16 December 2013 23: 32 New
      0
      Quote: Aron Zaavi
      Mentally talked called.

      well shaw padelaesh?

      probably this is loubof

      laughing
  • barbiturate
    barbiturate 16 December 2013 19: 19 New
    +4
    the article is written about an interesting project of boats, and here people rolled down to buzz on Israel and the Jews) It would be better if the boats were discussed and how they can be used, as well as to compare the forces of the probable enemy, the alignment of countries and their Navy in this region.
    And Israel was so disliked, as if crowds of muslim fanatics in the Middle East would give a Russian girl candy and Jews would kill. And even if someone threatens Russia, it’s not the Israeli army in any way) Jews fight for the right to live in their own state and dream of dreaming of fighting the Russian Far East (for example))
    Personally, Israel is prettier to me than the Arabs, although this is all a different issue, and it was about boats
    1. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 16 December 2013 20: 34 New
      +1
      Quote: barbiturate
      And so disliked Israel

      Yes, and where to get to a poor Jew.
      I sometimes think that the Jews themselves like to argue on the site, for any insignificant and not very reasonable attack they start to argue vehemently and prove how right they are and ahead of the rest.
      Quote: barbiturate
      as if crowds of muslim fanatics in the Middle East gave a Russian girl candy and Jews would kill

      Yes, there is no special difference between them, only from the Arabs you know what to expect and from the Jews there.
      But the fact that this national question often spoils very interesting topics on the site completely agrees with you.
      1. carbofo
        carbofo 23 December 2013 11: 08 New
        0
        Quote: saturn.mmm

        But the fact that this national question often spoils very interesting topics on the site completely agrees with you.

        Well, the article was originally nationalistic in the circumstances.
        the paisans squeezed the submarine from the Germans for free, this is a de facto reason to die if they had bought, the degree of passions and bans would have been much lower.
        Then I heard the news that they were gathered in the vehicle, and for what they are to us ??
        we will live without matzo.
        and having an American setup on my side is unpleasant for me.
  • kurare77
    kurare77 16 December 2013 20: 27 New
    +2
    Political background in this matter will always be present. And the fact that Israel buys submarines from Germany is rather natural. If you look at who in the world can produce this type of system, there are not so many. In my opinion, the hydrogen solution is dead end and insanely expensive. The most optimal option is the Stirling engine, which, by the way, is also being worked on in Russia. But Sweden, with its extremely liberal views, will never sell such systems to Israel.

    But what’s wrong with buying wisely weapons to protect your country, here I absolutely can’t understand some ... And the fact that Israel has someone to defend itself from is also indisputable in my opinion.
    1. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 16 December 2013 23: 18 New
      +2
      Quote: kurare77
      And the fact that Israel has someone to defend itself from is also in my opinion indisputable.

      Do you think Israel is only defending itself?
      1. kurare77
        kurare77 18 December 2013 02: 44 New
        -1
        I suppose yes. Let's just remember the story, including the six-day war that Israel physically started, but de facto - this war was started, in my opinion, at the moment when the Arab neighbors began their rhetoric of war and backed it up with distance.

        I have not heard from Israel statements that they want to drown their neighbors in the sea and throw them out of this land.

        Frankly, the official policy of Israel is far from being the most peaceful and based on good neighborliness. But when a neighbor constantly wants to kill me, I find some particularly good words for this neighbor ...

        But again, this is all politics. But about the submarine, which is what the article actually refers to. Who else could buy these complex systems from Israel? No one! And believe me, Germany does not lose from this. Something tells me that in other things she gets hers back. For example, drones from Israel .. wink This is just my guess.
  • ed65b
    ed65b 16 December 2013 20: 39 New
    0
    And what is our Warsaw woman worse ????? And than if yes.
    1. carbofo
      carbofo 24 December 2013 00: 04 New
      0
      Quote: ed65b
      And what is our Warsaw woman worse ????? And than if yes.

      they can not be squeezed out for a show off! :) you have to pay grandmother.
  • Pimply
    Pimply 17 December 2013 01: 05 New
    0
    Oleg, your trouble is that starting with the facts, you do not dig them out to the end, but
    a) get lost on ernichane
    b) You interrupt them with your thoughts and, not even trying to suggest any other version, you are angry in this direction.

    For starters, I would recommend that you carefully look at the materials about the boats themselves.

    Otherwise, you would not mix two types of boats, old Dolphins and new ones, into one whole. The new Dolphins will have a displacement of 2300 tons and a length of 68 meters.
    Armament - 15 torpedoes and 5 missiles.

    "By design," Dolphin 2 "is a cross between 214 and 212. It has 3 decks, like 212 (214 out of 2), but the location of the VNEU tanks is the same as 212. He also has X rudders like 212. By displacement" Dolphin 2 "is significantly larger than both: 2300 tons versus 1860 tons for 214 and 1830 tons for 212".

    The first Dolphin was somewhere in between the 209th and 212nd projects. This is the main jamb of the article.

    Secondly, there are not one or two documents on the cooperation of the Germans in Iraq. And why the claims were specifically to them. German firms supplied components that improved Iraq's racial and chemical weapons. Do you post links with names and amounts?
  • ed65b
    ed65b 17 December 2013 08: 22 New
    +2
    The cooperation of the Germans and Iraq. how ashamed and what kind of crime against the Jews has this collaboration caused? But comrades, Jews, what about your compatriot who, along with Hitler, was bumming stolen paintings?
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 17 December 2013 12: 52 New
      -1
      Quote: ed65b
      The cooperation of the Germans and Iraq. how ashamed and what kind of crime against the Jews has this collaboration caused? But comrades, Jews, what about your compatriot who, along with Hitler, was bumming stolen paintings?

      There is quite concrete evidence and data which one. With the mention of firms, amounts, and in which specific area they collaborated. If you are scarce in knowledge, this does not mean that something was missing.
    2. kurare77
      kurare77 18 December 2013 02: 50 New
      0
      The family has its black sheep, they say so. And how many Russians, Ukrainians, French, British, etc. who collaborated with Hitler. Unfortunately, there are people who are ready to sell, humiliate, kill for the sake of profit ... Do you want to equalize the whole people on them? Not worth it, right.
  • carbofo
    carbofo 17 December 2013 16: 29 New
    +2
    Snow fell in Jerusalem. The army launched military vehicles to clear roads. An old Jew is sitting at a bus stop. Nearby, young people speak Russian loudly. Jew to himself: Snow ... tanks ... Russian ... WHERE am I? !!
    1. Rider
      Rider 17 December 2013 16: 34 New
      0
      Quote: carbofo
      Jew to himself: Snow ... tanks ... Russian ... WHERE am I? !!


      powerfully !!!

      laughing
  • sasska
    sasska 18 December 2013 11: 01 New
    +1
    Quote: faraon1

    in Russia there are more such freaks. It is in a country that has drawn out all the hardships of war. I lost 27 million only to the dead, marches are organized with fascist symbols and fascist slogans and greetings. Shame !!!!

    well, I will also remind:
    The top of the Zionist organizations, which had long and unreasonably arrogated to themselves all the pain and blood of the Jews who suffered in the Second World War, was not particularly enthusiastic about the work of their fellow countryman Brian Michael Rigg. Rigg, a professor of history at the American Military University and a Ph.D., recently published two sensational books: “Jewish soldiers of Hitler: the untold story of Nazi racial laws and people of Jewish descent in the German army” and “Saved from the Reich: how one of Hitler’s soldiers saved the Lubavitcher rebbe ". Why didn’t the militant Zionists like these books? The fact that far from all Jews during World War II massively died in concentration camps. Many of them, it turns out, fought in the Wehrmacht and the SS troops. And some Jews were the leaders of these same camps. Many of them were quite conscientious Nazis. And some headed the local fascist organizations, even military units and associations. Jews, of course, did not give “true Aryans” peace, and at the beginning of 1944, in the depths of the personnel department of the Wehrmacht, a list of Jews who held top positions in the army was born. The list includes 77 people. Among them are 23 colonels, 5 major generals, 8 lieutenant generals and two full army generals. Each of them had a personal identity card from Adolf Hitler, confirming his Aryan origin. Do not think that the Jews served only in senior positions. There were many among the rank and file of the army. The military brotherhood did not allow the Germans to extradite “their” Jews. And those, in turn, served from the heart. Hundreds of Jews were awarded one of the highest awards of Nazi Germany, the Iron Cross. The case when a soldier with this award came to a concentration camp to visit a Jewish father was a textbook. The commandant, shocked by this event, stated literally the following: “If not for your reward, you would instantly find yourself in the same place as your father.” Rigg wrote his book on the basis of 400 interviews he had taken from Wehrmacht veterans of mixed origin. Many Wehrmacht veterans with Jewish roots themselves do not understand how to relate to the past. “If I served in the German army and my mother died in Auschwitz, then who am I, the victim, or one of the persecutors?” - asks the 86-year-old veteran of the SS troops, one hundred percent Jew. One of the most odious figures of the Third Reich, Reinhard Heydrich, had Jewish roots. It was he, as head of the RSHA, who headed the Gestapo, police, intelligence and counterintelligence. It was he who in 1942 at the Wannsee Conference put at the forefront "the final solution of the Jewish question." According to B. Riga, 150 Jews fought in Nazi troops. This information is also found in other confirmations. Military History Journal No. 9 of 1991: "10 thousand 173 Jews officially fought against the Soviet Union on the side of the Nazis in the Nazi Wehrmacht troops were officially registered in our prisoners of war camps."
    And the indignation of the Terry Zionists is understandable. Indeed, recognizing the active participation of a large number of Jews in World War 2 on the side of Hitler, it is much more difficult to make your own gesheft on compatriots tortured in the bowels of the Reich.
    1. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 18 December 2013 11: 52 New
      -3
      Quote: sasska
      well, I will also remind:
      The top of the Zionist organizations, for a long time and without reason ...

      ... the fruit of your sick imagination fool


      to the work of his compatriot Brian Michael Rigg ...

      Research results led Rigg to SUBJECTIVE the conclusion that in the ranks of the Wehrmacht served up to 150 thousand descendants of Jews in the second and third generation, most of whom considered themselves Germans и were considered as such under the Nuremberg Laws.
      1. sasska
        sasska 18 December 2013 14: 16 New
        +1
        In January, the Wehrmacht personnel department of 1944 prepared a secret list of 77 high-ranking officers and generals "mixed with a Jewish race or married to Jews." All 77 had Hitler’s personal identification of “German blood”. Among those listed in the list are 23 colonel, 5 major generals, 8 lieutenant generals and two full generals.

        lie, come on?

        I didn’t drink at the Brudershaft and we are not relatives. bother contacting you.

        And the indignation of the Terry Zionists is understandable. Indeed, recognizing the active participation of a large number of Jews in World War 2 on the side of Hitler, it is much more difficult to make your own gesheft on compatriots tortured in the bowels of the Reich.
        1. And Us Rat
          And Us Rat 18 December 2013 21: 36 New
          -1
          Quote: sasska

          I didn’t drink at the Brudershaft and we are not relatives. bother contacting you.


          For "you" I appeal to people who deserve my respect, and to the fascists - to YOU ​​- and with an admixture of disgust and contempt. You have already shown that you are a biased interlocutor, and your brains are washed out by fascist slogans and cliches - when you learn that people differ in their upbringing (and this is purely individual) and not nationality - then I will start to take you seriously. Learn to think with your head, it will come in handy in life, but if you don’t want to - go in front of the mirror, draw the swastikas, re-read the Mein Kampf - you look it will feel better.
          negative
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 19 December 2013 03: 37 New
      -1
      Quote: sasska
      og, og. for sure ...


      I have a new avatar for you, try on - may like lol Get out of the closet.

    2. And Us Rat
      And Us Rat 19 December 2013 03: 47 New
      +1
      Quote: sasska

      in principle, the Zionists are the same.