Military Review

Armored vehicles "Tiger" pursues mysterious failures in India

55
Armored vehicles "Tiger" pursues mysterious failures in India



The situation with the refusal of India from the licensed production of infantry combat vehicles BMP-3, drew attention to the situation with armored Tiger.

So back in 2005, by the Bin Jabr Group (an Arab company producing a licensed copy of an armored car Tiger called Nimr) and an Indian Vectra Group. It was announced about the signing of an agreement on the establishment of a joint production of cars in India.

The Arabic version of the Tigr armored personnel carrier did not go into the series, although it was announced about the possible release of the 500 order of armored vehicles for the needs of the internal security forces and the ground forces of India.

But in the future, this decision opened up the possibility for the delivery of Russian SPM-1 "Tiger" armored vehicles with the wheel formula 4х4 to India. India's huge market and perennial история cooperation of the two countries, opened up bright prospects in Asia for the Arzamas engineering plant, which is engaged in the release of these armored vehicles.

So in 2008, an agreement was signed on the delivery to India of two Tiger armored vehicles in various designs for testing. The agreement was signed all with the same company Vectra Group. The Vectra Group company unites 18 companies that are engaged in various types of business in the Indian market, in Eastern Europe and other countries of the world. The main business areas of the company: aviation (in particular, the sale of helicopters), truck production, real estate, information technology, security systems, the oil industry.

The interest in the Tigr fighting vehicles was shown by units from the police, border guards and amphibious units. According to available information, in the case of successful tests already in 2009 year, it was planned to establish joint production in the number of 300 vehicles per year in India.

The armored cars "Tigr" differed from the base model primarily by the right-hand drive and single-door aft door and the installation of a special protective shield for the machine gunner on the roof, an automatic transmission and the installation of an air conditioner.

But further deliveries of experienced machines did not get. The tests showed the compliance of the armored vehicles with the tasks and demonstrated the high endurance and mobility of the Tiger combat vehicles, however, due to the complex decision-making system in the Indian Ministry of Defense, the contract was again frozen.



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  1. Argon
    Argon 14 December 2013 07: 56
    13
    Given the information about the automatic transmission and air conditioning (this modification is not mass-produced), some displeasure is read between the lines, regarding the quality of the modifications made. Which is generally characteristic of our car industry.
    1. Horde
      Horde 14 December 2013 10: 17
      +1
      Indians spoiled, give them all the comfort, however, if for the same money they find something like that, they put the flag in their hands. But as practice shows, bourgeois military cars are several times more expensive, the same will be the Italian-German solyanka with all their licenses.
      1. Vovka levka
        Vovka levka 14 December 2013 16: 24
        +3
        Quote: Horde
        Indians spoiled, give them all comfort.

        The customer is always right, because he pays.
        So if "The face is crooked, there is nothing to blame the mirror."
        Personally, I have a big doubt about the reliability of the "Tiger", perhaps I am mistaken. Although if you look at what is happening in the Russian car industry, then where a miracle can come from, I personally do not understand. What is your own design? Almost nothing, foreigners rule the ball.
        1. Day 11
          Day 11 14 December 2013 16: 36
          +3
          No, the difference is huge. These products do not stand on the conveyor belt like Lada Priora.
          1. morpex
            morpex 15 December 2013 00: 50
            0
            Quote: Den 11
            No, the difference is huge. These products do not stand on the conveyor belt like Lada Priora.

            Do you have something against Lada? So, For reference: Formula 1 pilot, 2007 world champion of the year, Finnish race driver Kimi Raikonen in an interview said that his first car was the Soviet Lada, which he found with his father almost in a landfill. After the car was repaired, Kimi loved her very much and said that she practically did not break.
            And about this news - the same garbage as with the Ukrainian armored personnel carriers. At the factory of receivers everything is fine and upon arrival at the destination problems begin. In my opinion, they stupidly bring down the price.
        2. avt
          avt 14 December 2013 17: 04
          +7
          Quote: Vovka Levka
          The customer is always right, because he pays.

          So they paid for the aircraft carrier, they told them - do not brick the boilers with Chinese brick, so no, they are very smart, asbestos is carcinogenic for them - the captain on the bridge suffocates to asthma. laughing Well, well-wishers, like that, started a song about a backward Russian shipbuilder. Moreover, the Indians themselves did not issue penalties under the contract, as well as claims for the boat that we repaired and exploded in theirs, even now they ask for two more to be repaired. then you write your own girlish. After all, it is clearly stated in the article - "The tests showed the correspondence of armored vehicles to the assigned tasks and demonstrated the high endurance and mobility of the" Tiger "combat vehicles," so no
          Quote: Vovka Levka
          So if "The face is crooked, there is nothing to blame the mirror."
          It is, of course, clear that there is no better "Oplot" machines in nature. laughing Well, there is no way to kick the Russian one, even if this car is “Bin Jabr Group (an Arab company producing a licensed copy of the Tiger armored car called Nimr).” And it was a joint production of Arabs with the Indian Vectra Group. And that's how he says
          Quote: Rustam
          they have a requirement - they themselves must produce at least 50% of components. When we looked at production in 2008, it became clear that they could not pull more than 30% of components
          What do we need - to build a vocational school for national cadres there and teach them workers!?
          So if you see a crooked face in the mirror, immediately after reading the article, know this is yours.
          1. Vovka levka
            Vovka levka 14 December 2013 21: 49
            +2
            Quote: avt
            It is, of course, clear that there is no better "Oplot" machines in nature.

            From "Oplot" absolutely no capture. There are a lot of children's problems in it, but this is not the main thing. This is a machine of the past, but we must look ahead and there are problems here.
            What about the aircraft carrier? The boilers are moody and unsuccessful. Our people, thanks to their ingenuity and perseverance, manage to work for them. And can the Indians? I don’t know, I personally have big doubts. However, after 10 years it will be possible to see.
            And about our people, I will briefly tell you this story:
            In the 80s, in the Lviv region in Rozdol, the French built a large chemical plant, almost similar to that located in the Stavropol Territory. It was all done. In the field of automation, CPUs were built, shutoff valves, sensors installed, cable routes extended. But the Americans did not put controllers with software, because of the dual purpose of the plant. And that the factory worked manually. There were a lot of problems, accidents, as they say, everything is as always. But the factory worked. In this state, he could work only with us, but not with them. As they say, that the Russian for health, the German death.
            If you make a technique for them, then it must be done for them. And not only do, but also do full-fledged technical support and maintenance. And here, as usual .opa complete.
          2. bask
            bask 14 December 2013 23: 05
            +1
            Quote: avt
            So if you see a crooked face in the mirror, immediately after reading the article, know this is yours

            Armored car ,, Tiger ,, from company: Textron Land Systems .
            Combat Masaa 8,8 tons.
            Can play 6 fully equipped soldiers.
            STANAG 3+ protection can be set up ... reservation.
            клик

        3. DEfindER
          DEfindER 15 December 2013 01: 22
          0
          Quote: Vovka Levka
          What is your design? Almost nothing, the ball is ruled by foreigners.

          Well, how is nothing designed? Literally, Grant did not have time to crawl through the hordes of Russia, when Kalina 2 began to be sold, not to mention Largus, and a new Niva was coming ... But what good cars for that kind of money, ask the owners if you don't believe it, Grant almost off-road jeep.
          1. Vovka levka
            Vovka levka 15 December 2013 01: 30
            -1
            Quote: DEfindER
            Quote: Vovka Levka
            What is your design? Almost nothing, the ball is ruled by foreigners.

            Well, how is nothing designed? Literally, Grant did not have time to crawl through the hordes of Russia, when Kalina 2 began to be sold, not to mention Largus, and a new Niva was coming ... But what good cars for that kind of money, ask the owners if you don't believe it, Grant almost off-road jeep.

            Largus - do not tell, ask what kind of car it is? This is Renault (Dacia), which by the way has already been discontinued in Romania. Niva is a Chevrolet.
            So I’ll tell you, to release and design these are slightly different things.
            1. DEfindER
              DEfindER 15 December 2013 14: 09
              0
              Quote: Vovka Levka
              Largus - do not tell, ask what kind of car it is? This is Renault (Dacia),

              And what of this, any machine is made on the basis of something, deo Nexia, for example, it is an Opel Cadet, and there are many such examples. If a good base, why not take it as the basis of the new machine, just take into account all the shortcomings of the old one. And at the expense of ChevyNiva, study more closely, in it from our Niva much more than anything new.
              1. Vovka levka
                Vovka levka 15 December 2013 16: 29
                -2
                Quote: DEfindER
                Quote: Vovka Levka
                Largus - do not tell, ask what kind of car it is? This is Renault (Dacia),

                And what of this, any machine is made on the basis of something, deo Nexia, for example, it is an Opel Cadet, and there are many such examples. If a good base, why not take it as the basis of the new machine, just take into account all the shortcomings of the old one. And at the expense of ChevyNiva, study more closely, in it from our Niva much more than anything new.

                Largus is not done at the base, this is a copy, and almost complete.
                I will tell you so, it is impossible to be the first everywhere, because others are not fools either. There are excellent developments in other areas. Especially in areas where the capitalists did not see the benefits and meaning. But excuse me, but the region of the automotive industry, without exception (the former USSR), is a dense taiga. And what you call machines is cheap consumer goods, in principle, for us, because we are mostly poor people. The wagon is also a vehicle.
                1. DEfindER
                  DEfindER 16 December 2013 12: 10
                  0
                  Quote: Vovka Levka
                  But excuse me, but the region of the automotive industry, without exception (the former USSR), is a dense taiga. And what you call machines is cheap consumer goods, in principle, for us, because we are mostly poor people.

                  Who did you give a damn about? Did you communicate with the owners of foreign cars and our cars? Everything breaks down the same way, there are no ideal cars. But in the repair of our car is much easier and cheaper! At the expense of the fact that we are poor, it depends on what to compare, we must not measure the salary, but what we can buy, with huge salaries in the West, with their taxes and payments, they can buy much less than we do! Just look at which cars drive with us and which ones they have, and draw a conclusion.
                  1. Vovka levka
                    Vovka levka 16 December 2013 13: 10
                    0
                    Quote: DEfindER

                    Who did you give a damn about? Did you communicate with the owners of foreign cars and our cars? Everything breaks down the same way, there are no ideal cars. But in the repair of our car is much easier and cheaper! At the expense of the fact that we are poor, it depends on what to compare, we must not measure the salary, but what we can buy, with huge salaries in the West, with their taxes and payments, they can buy much less than we do! Just look at which cars drive with us and which ones they have, and draw a conclusion.

                    Conclusions made a long time, in my experience. I went and ride different cars. And been in different countries and during the Union and now. And I don’t have absolutely any illusions where anyone lives and how. If you like to call black white, but for God's sake, on health. This is your life and your right. Good luck in your world.
    2. Cherdak
      Cherdak 15 December 2013 04: 21
      +1
      Quote: Argon
      What is generally characteristic of our car industry.


      More other reminds:

      Director Technologist:
      - Well. Well I told you right away: THE DAMNED PLACE - and you are "hands from zopa, hands from zopa ..."


      и

      "if you don't grease a Hindu, the Turuses won't go *"

      / * "Turuses on wheels" - the phraseological unit of the Russian language, meaning "nonsense", "nonsense."
      According to Dahl’s dictionary, “Turus”, “Tarusi” is a dialect word with the same meaning.
      According to one version, the word turus is associated with the name of the tour (lat. Turres ambulatorie) - a wooden siege tower, covered in animal skins.
      1. sergo0000
        sergo0000 15 December 2013 10: 04
        0
        "if you don't grease a Hindu, the Turuses won't go *"

        With this, the Indians are all right!))) As elsewhere, however, in the world.
        Well this is not North Korea, where they will not regret their uncle.)))
        http://newsland.com/news/detail/id/929431/
        1. bask
          bask 15 December 2013 11: 05
          0
          Quote: morpex
          In my opinion, they stupidly bring down the price.

          Is it even cheaper ???
          Quote: sergo0000
          "if you don't grease a Hindu, the Turuses won't go *"

          Here with this, we should not have problems at all what : what is the TRAINING base at defense industry enterprises.
          Armored vehicles "Tiger" pursues mysterious failures in India

          To complete the order, for India, you need to upgrade SMP2,, Tiger ,,.
          Bring ballistic protection and mine protection to GAZ 2330 (Tiger 6A).
          Strengthen the chassis, part, increasing the carrying capacity. That would be able to install additional reservations (composite armor).

          And it is better to offer the Indians, tested (to undermine NO), SMP3,, Bear ,,,.
          With the Indians, they would have undermined, they showed the reliability of the armored capsule.
  2. makarov
    makarov 14 December 2013 08: 01
    13
    In my opinion, everything is much simpler and more prosaic: either someone outbid the contract, or they just spoiled it from dirty tricks. let the services of the Russian Federation work, this is their field of activity, and can we make fulies here on the site?
    1. avt
      avt 14 December 2013 11: 03
      +9
      Quote: makarov
      In my opinion, everything is much simpler and more prosaic: either someone outbid the contract, or they just shamed it from dirty

      I think it's even simpler, the answer in these lines of the article is, “The tests showed the compliance of the armored vehicles with the assigned tasks and demonstrated the high endurance and mobility of the Tiger combat vehicles, however, due to the complex decision-making system in the circles of the Indian Ministry of Defense, the contract was again frozen.” Bakshish. a good one was not brought into the circles of the Ministry of Defense of India, or brought, but little, or not into those "circles". "The system" is more complicated for them than ours, there are so many tenders in flight and for helicopters and airplanes, the last floats with "Rafal" are worth something.
  3. Semurg
    Semurg 14 December 2013 08: 57
    +6
    India is moving away from the practice of buying almost everything from a single seller. Yesterday they wrote a bmp today, a tiger and tank towers. I think the quality has fallen dramatically in factories, even if in rockets the sensors manage to stick upside down, then what about other products.
    1. avt
      avt 14 December 2013 11: 36
      +2
      Quote: Semurg
      India is moving away from the practice of buying almost everything from a single seller.

      India NEVER bought and does not buy anything from one seller. They ALWAYS diversify the supply of weapons, even sometimes at the expense of common sense. Well, if, as with the leasing of nuclear submarines from the USSR and now from Russia, they get on the one hand, it’s as simple as this no one else would be happy to take.
      1. bask
        bask 14 December 2013 13: 13
        +5
        Quote: avt
        India NEVER bought and does not buy anything from one seller. They ALWAYS diversify arms supplies

        AVT, now with the Indians, a clear installation.
        Only licensed production in India, or a joint venture with the transfer of all technologies.
        And the Indians choose the best on the world arms market, since the choice is huge.
        "" Ashok Leyland, the largest supplier of military trucks for the Indian army, announced ... with the Stallion armored vehicles, a multipurpose armored vehicle, an armored bus and a mine-protected vehicle.
        The new armored combat vehicle is being developed on the basis of the project of the armored vehicle "Matador" with a 4x4 wheel arrangement of the South African company, ... The first prototype of the armored combat vehicle was assembled by Paramount Group in South Africa just 6 months after the start of the project http: //www.military -informant.com/images/stories

        /army/mpvnewm.jpg

        Armored Cars: Stallion in India, Stallion 2 in Jordan laughing
        1. avt
          avt 14 December 2013 13: 35
          +2
          Quote: bask
          , now the Indians have a clear installation.

          Well, again, nothing new. They have always pushed through licensed production whenever possible, our MiGs, for example. Even at the dawn of independence, "Marut" themselves, with the help of the Germans, were allowed into the series, but again they returned to the Sukhi and "Jaguar". The only question is the availability of production facilities and qualified personnel.
          1. bask
            bask 14 December 2013 14: 23
            +3
            Quote: avt
            . They are always licensed wherever possible.

            So it is necessary to cooperate, with the Indians in this area, sales and production, armored vehicles.
            They created the Indians, based on the licensed Ural 4320 in India, together with BAE Systems and the South African Casspir Mk 6 on the chassis of the Urals.
            Successful, and most importantly relatively cheap and easy-to-use technology for manufacturing MCI.
            It was necessary for both the Indian company and Mahindra Mahindra in India to continue to develop this topic.
            With the release of the Ural MRP both in India and here in Russia.
            Without such cooperation, our companies will continue to lose tenders in India.
            1. TSOOBER
              TSOOBER 14 December 2013 19: 16
              +1
              Looks great! good And this would not hurt us!
        2. Rustam
          Rustam 14 December 2013 15: 25
          +2
          bask
          Only licensed production in India, or a joint venture with the transfer of all technologies


          Think right dear comrade wink

          hi
          it's actually easier

          But it didn’t grow together for one simple reason -
          they have a requirement - they themselves must produce at least 50% of components. When we looked at production in 2008, it became clear that they could not pull more than 30% of components. But they did not agree to the screwdriver assembly, like the Chinese themselves. That's all inhibited.
          1. bask
            bask 14 December 2013 15: 36
            +1
            Hi Rustam.

            Quote: Rustam
            b. And on the screwdriver assembly, like the same Chinese,

            What are the cunning Indians and Chinese lol here and now they want to develop their car industry.
            It’s a pity, it’s a pity, an excellent joint venture could have been. The Indians still do not steal (practically).

            And how did they manage to establish a joint production of MPI with Paramount Group.
            Probably an armored car only South Africa, the rest is an Indian truck Ashok Leyland.
            1. wanderer_032
              wanderer_032 14 December 2013 17: 06
              +3
              I support your opinions guys.
              Perhaps the catch is in setting up production on the spot.
          2. bask
            bask 14 December 2013 19: 44
            +3
            Quote: Rustam
            . And on the screwdriver assembly, like the same Chinese

            The Chinese are generally a separate issue.
            On such ,, little things ,, No. they don’t need a joint venture, not a LICENSE, for a product.
            Just -TUPO take a sample and copy, in accordance with their Chinese technological capabilities (include Chinese Xerox).
            Chinese MCI CS / VP3. Explicitly copied from RG -31.
  4. rolik2
    14 December 2013 09: 14
    +1
    Quote: Semurg
    either someone outbid the contract, or just shame from dirty

    Was there a tender at all ??

    an Arab company producing a licensed copy of a Tiger armored car called Nimr

    When have you already managed to sell it ??

    Quote: makarov
    let the services of the Russian Federation work, this is their field of activity

    Are they here? The fact that the Arabs were not able to suck in a car to the Indians?
    1. self-propelled
      self-propelled 14 December 2013 12: 45
      +3
      Quote: rolik2
      When have you already managed to sell it ??

      The fact is that initially the vehicle (which later became the "Tiger") was developed for a foreign customer. The order for the creation of an armored vehicle was received by the designers of GAZ from the leadership of the armed forces of the United Arab Emirates (UAE) in the late 1990s.
      Prototypes and documentation for the machine were transferred in 2000 to the customer - the Bin Jaber Group (UAE). The Arab side refused from further joint work on this project. Using these prototypes, the "Nimr" car was later created in the UAE. At GAZ, in turn, they decided not to put the project on "shelves to gather dust", but to create a multipurpose vehicle ...
      1. rolik2
        14 December 2013 12: 46
        0
        thanks enlightened laughing
  5. VADEL
    VADEL 14 December 2013 09: 16
    +6
    It's not about the location of the steering wheel. Chassis-shit. The picky box-razdatka. I went, I know. Why? Question to the manufacturers.
    1. servant
      servant 14 December 2013 12: 57
      +1
      The steering is such that you cannot catch it at the speed of the steering wheel. Why? Question there ....
  6. jjj
    jjj 14 December 2013 09: 20
    +5
    Got test results in the tropics, passing into the desert and mountains. The results are good. Well, if the product is good, then there is a buyer.
    I recall the situation of the 70s of the last century. Africa. One of the countries suddenly ordered a large batch of UAZ vehicles. The generals and all sorts of high-ranking officials began to ride them. Our people asked: why such a metamorphosis occurred, why they abandoned the Japanese jeeps, which they drove before. The answer was something like this:
    “When a jeep hits a mine, everyone dies. When "Oise" runs into a mine, it tears off the driver's legs
  7. Day 11
    Day 11 14 December 2013 09: 41
    +4
    ..., again the MiG-31 crashed. Well, at least the flyers are alive. How many are left there (MiGs)? The satellites were about to shoot down ... I agree, out of place.
    1. sashka
      sashka 14 December 2013 10: 24
      +4
      Quote: Den 11
      I agree, out of place.

      Similarly. And after all there is nothing to say. Again the extreme will be a simple locksmith and not outdated equipment ..
      -------------------------------------------------- -----
      Quote "The MiG-31 fighter went on a test flight, having recently passed the planned events at the 322nd Aviation Repair Plant"
      -------------------------------------------------- ------
      Where to get the frames? So we will ruin people and technology while education will be e-cache.
      1. Day 11
        Day 11 14 December 2013 10: 52
        +2
        Absolutely agree with you Sasha! Also heard that he was only after the repair. Maybe VAF what will tell?
        1. alone
          alone 14 December 2013 11: 03
          +4
          Denis hi !! I don’t know what VAF will say, but the fact that the plane crashed after repair means only one thing.
          1. Day 11
            Day 11 14 December 2013 11: 25
            +4
            Yes, Omar, there are only economists and effective managers left. Techies go to the West for young people. It's all sad. We need a COMPLETE reformatting of consciousness. Earlier (under the Communists), excellent machine operators and processors came out of the vocational school environment (there is always a demand for them (exactly GOOD) was good). And now? Ugh ... My mind is boiling indignant !!!
            1. saber
              saber 14 December 2013 13: 54
              0
              Oh well! don't bury us, now big, just global changes for the better are taking place
              1. alone
                alone 14 December 2013 14: 19
                +1
                Now the problem is to find a good turner or locksmith of the 6th rank. But D. effective managers and lawyers like dogs in a municipal garbage dump. otherwise they entrusted the aircraft repair to the boob, and it fell. Well, the pilots are still alive. And not only did the boobies ditch such an airplane, they could leave children orphans !!
                1. saber
                  saber 14 December 2013 14: 33
                  +1
                  turner and locksmith note. I know, and I know from the inside, but believe me, the situation is changing for the better. we have many young and highly educated workers, and that’s good, because technologists are quite lazy and stupid
      2. core
        core 14 December 2013 13: 02
        +3
        so that airplanes do not fall, skilled workers are needed, and not smart people with diplomas, they do not teach workers at institutes, they were taught at vocational schools, but we do not need these educational institutions, we all want our kids to have university diplomas. WHO will work as a state guest? 40 percent of universities must be dispersed along with teachers.
        1. old rocket man
          old rocket man 15 December 2013 00: 28
          0
          Quote: core
          WHO will work as a gostorbaytor.
          .

          gastarbeiter, in Russian transcription gastarbeiter, the word German, if you don’t know how to write (not everyone knows German and read newspapers carefully), write in Russian-foreign worker hi
    2. me
      me 14 December 2013 11: 18
      +3
      But how everyone loves to gloat when Amer fighters fall.
  8. kelevra
    kelevra 14 December 2013 11: 48
    0
    Well, the situation is clear, the cars were put in, and the Indians weren’t taught to ride!
  9. AlexA
    AlexA 14 December 2013 11: 53
    +2
    Quote: avt
    Bakshish good was not brought into the circles of the Ministry of Defense of India, or brought, but little, or not into those "circles"

    I am inclined to support this opinion. I have experience in negotiations with a large Indian state concern. There are openly structures there that "organize" the necessary negotiations and skidding. Apparently, they turned to the wrong people.
  10. AlexA
    AlexA 14 December 2013 12: 14
    +1
    Colleagues motorists. Technical question: I can't understand the idea of ​​developing Tiger-type armored vehicles. After all, 60 years ago there was an BTR-40 of approximately the same dimensions and layout. Why go back to such an archaic scheme? In addition, the BTR-40 had a muzzle of oblique edges. They are clearly better at resisting the action of ammunition at the target. This is written in any textbook on resistance materials. And other advantages are not visible from the outside. And the same BRDM also swam. So what is the secret plan of creating "new" armored vehicles?
    1. bask
      bask 14 December 2013 15: 06
      0
      Quote: AlexA
      any textbook of sopromat. And other advantages are not visible from the outside. And the same BRDM also swam. So what is the secret plan of creating "new" armored vehicles?

      All that is new is well forgotten old.
      Faced Americans in Afghanistan and especially in Iraq, with a total high-explosive war.
      Losses immediately began to grow, HUMVI, even armored spread to shreds.
      We immediately remembered the South Rhodesian and South African developments and mine-protected armored vehicles with a V-shaped body.
      And they began to rivet on serial freight cars, firms Navestar Defense, MPAP Maxx Pro, and stamped them already about 30 thousand .. units ..
      Stupidly strengthening the chassis of the truck and screwing it to RAMBER TRUCK BRONECOUS.
      It came out mine and mine protection. On this, and not on the ballistic defense, the main emphasis was placed on the protection of the armored car.
      1. wanderer_032
        wanderer_032 14 December 2013 17: 23
        +2
        Of all the Tigers, only one model (6A for the transportation of command personnel) is protected from explosions on mines, the rest are not.
        Quote: AlexA
        Technical question: I can not understand the idea of ​​developing Tiger-type armored vehicles

        So the question is open.
        1. bask
          bask 14 December 2013 21: 38
          0
          Quote: wanderer_032
          the apparel (6A for the transportation of command personnel) is protected from explosions by mines, the rest are not.

          6A is (not the official name of the machine) ballistic protection ,, Tiger ,,on NO GRAVITY PROTECTION.
          Quote: wanderer_032
          So the question is open

          Quote: self-propelled
          The matter was that initially the vehicle (which later became the "Tiger") was developed for a foreign customer. The order for the creation of an armored vehicle was received by the designers of GAZ from the leadership of the armed forces of the United Arab Emirates (UAE) in the late 1990s.

          Here is the answer Self-propelledI agree with him.
    2. bask
      bask 15 December 2013 00: 02
      +1
      Quote: AlexA
      . And the same BRDM also swam

      But the BRDM-2 must be upgraded.
      Install torsion bar suspension, strengthen ballistic and mine protection.
      And it may turn out, a very modern multi-purpose armored car ....
      So modernized at Textron Systems, the old BRBMku ,, Commando ,,.
      In the early 60s, the Cadillac company created a new BRDM, which was produced in 1963 under the designation V-100 ,, Commando ,,.
  11. rolik2
    14 December 2013 12: 32
    +2
    Quote: AlexA
    what a secret plan to create "new" armored vehicles

    Cheaper, by the logic of things, the cost of such a car should be much less than an armored personnel carrier, but in practice, it somehow doesn’t work out.
  12. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 14 December 2013 12: 45
    +2
    Quote: The Ministry of Defense will stop purchasing Tiger armored vehicles from 2014. According to the Ministry of Defense, Izvestia was told that instead of them, the Italian IVECO LVM-M65 armored cars, which in Russia were called the Lynx, will be delivered to the troops. Existing 50 Tiger armored vehicles will continue to operate in special forces as army jeeps. Thus, the military history of one “Russian hammer” will be completed.
    Hindus are intelligent people. They understand that why buy a car that is not in demand in the manufacturing country, Russia? "Tiger" has class 3 armor protection. Small arms expert Viktor Korablin explained that a vehicle with class 3 protection is fired from a conventional machine gun. “Almost all bullets for machine gun cartridges are now made with a heat-strengthened core. They break through the 3 class of meters with 10, but the 5 class cannot be broken.
    Comments are said to be superfluous.
    1. servant
      servant 14 December 2013 13: 00
      +2
      So it turns out that Serdyukov did everything right in this matter buying iveko? Or then we must admit that the new minister is doing something wrong!
    2. Kibalchish
      Kibalchish 14 December 2013 13: 35
      +1
      Tiger and Iveco in the snow

    3. Anatole Klim
      Anatole Klim 14 December 2013 17: 25
      +2
      Quote: Ivanovich47
      Quote: The Ministry of Defense since 2014 will cease to buy armored vehicles "Tiger". As the Ministry of Defense told Izvestia, instead of them, the Italian armored cars IVECO LVM-M65 will be delivered to the troops,

      Unfortunately, you did not provide a link to the above quote from the Izvestia newspaper, I managed to find this message, it is dated January 2012. I give you a more recent message:
      The Russian military department is suspending the purchase of Italian Lynx armored vehicles (Iveco LMV M65 Lynx) under the existing contract and is not going to conclude new contracts for the supply of vehicles of this type. Henceforth, the RF Ministry of Defense intends to focus on the domestic manufacturer.
      “The contract for the further purchase of Iveco armored vehicles with Italy has been suspended. What has already been paid, we have almost taken it all away, we are collecting it, we will use it, we will not buy more, ”RIA Novosti quotes the commander-in-chief of the Russian Ground Forces.
      The Commander-in-Chief of the Ground Forces noted that Russia has enough of its own developments. “We have a family of“ Bear ”,“ Tiger ”,“ Wolf ”, development work has been opened that will allow us to create a family of lightly armored vehicles on which it will be possible to install combat modules.
      «This was all started under the previous leadership of the Ministry of Defense and we, you understand, in order to keep the brand of a good customer, in fact, we are fulfilling the terms of that contract. http://army-news.ru/2013/01/minoborony-otkazhetsya-ot-pokupki-b
      ronemash
      in-rys /
    4. The comment was deleted.
  13. APASUS
    APASUS 14 December 2013 16: 31
    +3
    To answer this question, you need to know the structure of military imports of India.
    There, almost clan management and the change of at least one of the officials can radically change the procurement structure! A very uncomfortable negotiator, almost always trading for 1 rupee.
  14. Dmitriy85
    Dmitriy85 14 December 2013 16: 48
    0
    Kazakhstan begins construction of a new plant for the production of wheeled armored vehicles

    In Astana, a capsule was laid in a new plant for the production of special military and civilian vehicles with the participation of the Minister of Defense of the Republic of Kazakhstan Adilbek Dzhaksybekov and the mayor of the capital, Imangali Tasmagambetov.

    Within the framework of the project, it is planned to build a technological complex with a capacity of 2015 to 120 special military and civilian vehicles per year in the territory of the Industrial Park of the SEZ “Astana - zhala kala” by 360.

    Modern robotic equipment that allows you to implement a full cycle of work such as cutting and welding armor sheets, painting and assembling machines, conducting output quality control. The project provides for the production of not only military equipment, but also city buses.

    The participants in this project are JSC National Company Kazakhstan Engineering, Paramount Group (South Africa) and Kazakhstan Engineering Distribution LLP, which signed in November this year a tripartite memorandum on the production of combat wheeled vehicles and their maintenance in Kazakhstan.

    Such a project is being implemented for the first time in Central Asia and will create a highly profitable joint venture capable of providing a qualitative breakthrough in the defense and engineering industries.
    1. avt
      avt 14 December 2013 20: 16
      0
      Quote: Dmitriy85
      Such a project is being implemented for the first time in Central Asia and will create a highly profitable joint venture capable of providing a qualitative breakthrough in the defense and engineering industries.

      We have heard about this. But what exactly will you tear up with a good quality? What specific samples will you make? Or it is not yet known and they are building this way, generally for the future.
    2. bask
      bask 14 December 2013 23: 20
      0
      Quote: Dmitriy85
      The participants in this project are JSC National Company Kazakhstan Engineering, Paramount Group (South Africa) and Kazakhstan Engineering Distribution LLP, which signed in November this year a tripartite memorandum on the production of combat wheeled vehicles and their maintenance in Kazakhstan.


      Azerbaijan has been doing this since 2009.
      You will be producing excellent MRAPs, Matador, and Marader, and possibly BTR 8/8, Mbombbe,.
      1. alone
        alone 14 December 2013 23: 48
        +2
        Yes, you are right, we carry out licensed assembly of these machines and install weapons on the roof that are controlled from inside the machine.
        By the way, we were also offered the assembly of the Tigers. But our military-industrial complex refused. I don’t know the reason, but apparently they were.
        1. bask
          bask 15 December 2013 00: 34
          +2
          Quote: lonely
          By the way, we were also offered the assembly of the Tigers. But our military-industrial complex refused. I don’t know the reason, but apparently they were.

          Cause; probably what requirements were presented by the country's leadership for performance characteristics, a promising armored car.
          And companies from South Africa, all the same, offer the latest technologies to the arms market, according to the mine-protected armored vehicles of the MPRA.
          Which you can buy on the world market, yankers and English, may not sell their armored cars .., referring to the secrecy of the development.
  15. uzer 13
    uzer 13 14 December 2013 17: 36
    +1
    Russian car manufacturers, of course, can do such nonsense as to confuse a domestic buyer with a foreign one. Habits are preserved, make an openly unfinished design, and even from dubious components, and dump it all on special request to the army, where the military should make semi-finished products are full-fledged cars. Where do they go if the homeland ordered? And why do foreign buyers need this? The situation is aggravated by the fact that domestic arms dealers are the same officials. They can neither sell nor bargain. There was no competition for these positions, which means they are handed out to their people on patronage or for a bribe, as a profitable place. Therefore, they and no need to fuss.
  16. AlexA
    AlexA 14 December 2013 18: 32
    +1
    Quote: bask
    It came out mine and mine protection

    Quote: rolik2
    the cost of such a car should be much less than an armored personnel carrier

    Quote: wanderer_032
    Of all the Tigers, only one model (6A for the transport of command personnel) is protected from explosions on mines

    Colleagues, thank you for the clarification. Accepted. But the question is really open. And what, besides mines, there are no other means of warfare? But against them, the new armored vehicles are worse even than 60-year-old cars. And cheapness ... So, for the sake of cheapness, let the soldiers pay with their lives for the "economic efficiency" of the new leadership of the Ministry of Defense? All this is absolutely disgusting.
    1. bask
      bask 15 December 2013 00: 13
      0
      Quote: AlexA
      ? But against them, the new armor plates are worse than even 60-year-old cars. A cheap

      But worse than AlexA, the ballistic and most important mine protection is better.
      And the main task of the MCI, under the cover of armor, is to deliver the soldier from point A to point B, alive and preferably without injury.
      These are not assault vehicles, but essentially an armored personnel carrier, an armored personnel carrier.
      To do this, create a BTR-T / BMP-T, tracked.
      Although both are already created in the troops of their ZERO.
      There are 12 units of BMO-T-machine of flamethrowers (BTR-T) and everything. For the whole army, but this is already traceless and does not care about the lives of ordinary soldiers !!!!
    2. old rocket man
      old rocket man 15 December 2013 00: 46
      +1
      Quote: AlexA
      And what, besides mines, there are no other means of warfare?


      The answer is simple, this car is not for battle, it is a transport car, and mainly for internal troops.
      The commander of a motorized rifle regiment is in battle in the KShM on the basis of an armored personnel carrier or an infantry fighting vehicle, the commander of a tank is similar or in a commander’s tank. No one cuts across the field in the UAZ, although it is put in staff, there are BRDM for scouts, SO smile
  17. homosum20
    homosum20 14 December 2013 19: 29
    +2
    In the comments I read: "The customer is always right, because he pays."
    As a professional salesman, I want to correct: a stupid customer is always right. In fact, it is very difficult to select what really corresponds to the TOR and most often it is not present in the pure form on the market. Collaboration between the customer and the supplier is needed to refine the closest product. This product is needed by the customer, and the supplier does not care, because there are no guarantees for concluding a contract - and therefore there are no costs for completion. So there is mutual dependence.
  18. avt
    avt 14 December 2013 20: 19
    +2
    Quote: homosum20
    Collaboration between the customer and the supplier is needed to refine the closest product. This product is needed by the customer, and the supplier does not care, because there are no guarantees for concluding a contract - and therefore there are no costs for completion. So there is mutual dependence.

    good As my friend says - "for your grandmother we will chrome a tree for you" laughing
    1. bask
      bask 14 December 2013 21: 30
      +2
      Quote: avt
      As my friend says - ,, for your grandmothers we will chrome a tree for you


      Or the armored personnel carrier will be redone in the truck tongue : for your money, any whim (it says my friend).
      This is in the military-industrial complex, should not be in principle.
      On the Volga, many of these bridges over the past 2 years have divorced.
      1. old rocket man
        old rocket man 15 December 2013 00: 52
        +2
        Quote: bask
        Quote: avt
        As my friend says - ,, for your grandmothers we will chrome a tree for you


        Or the armored personnel carrier will be redone in the truck tongue : for your money, any whim (it says my friend).
        This is in the military-industrial complex, should not be in principle.
        On the Volga, many of these bridges over the past 2 years have divorced.

        And I liked it laughing , for hunting and fishing just right, only tanning salons laughing