Military Review

As a newborn Ukraine in the XVII century, was looking for its place in Europe and what came of it

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As a newborn Ukraine in the XVII century, was looking for its place in Europe and what came of it



Ukraine in its stories more than once suffered the torment of political self-determination. In the middle of the XVII century, it, like today, rushed between the West and the East, constantly changing the vector of development. It would be nice to recall what this policy cost the state and the people of Ukraine. So, Ukraine, XVII century.

Why Khmelnitsky needed an alliance with Moscow?

In the 1648 year, Bogdan Khmelnitsky defeated Polish troops sent against him three times: under the Yellow Waters, under the Korsun and under the Pilas. As the war flared up and military victories became more and more significant, the final goal of the struggle also changed. He started the war by demanding limited Cossack autonomy in Naddniprovschina, Khmelnitsky had already fought for liberation of the entire Ukrainian people from Polish captivity, and the dream of creating an independent Ukrainian state in the liberated Poles from the territory did not seem unrealizable.

The defeat at Berestechko in 1651, Khmelnytsky bit sobered up. He realized that Ukraine was still weak, and alone could not resist in the war with Poland. Getman began to look for an ally, or rather, the patron. The choice of Moscow as an “elder brother” was not at all predetermined. Khmelnitsky, together with the foremen, seriously considered the options of becoming an ally of the Crimean Khan, a vassal of the Turkish Sultan, or returning to the Commonwealth as a confederative component of a common state. The choice, as we already know, was made in favor of the Moscow Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich.

Did Moscow need Ukraine?

Unlike the current situation, Moscow was not at all eager to lure Ukraine into its arms. To accept the citizenship of the Ukrainian separatists meant the automatic declaration of war of the Commonwealth. And Poland of the XVII century is a large by the standards of the European state, which included the vast territories that are now part of the Baltic republics, Belarus and Ukraine. Poland had an impact on European politics: it was not even 50 years that its members had taken Moscow and put their protege in the Kremlin on the throne.

And the Moscow kingdom of the 17th century is not the Russian Empire at the beginning of the 20th century. The Baltic states, Ukraine, the Caucasus, Central Asia are still foreign territories, and in the annexed Siberia the horse did not roll either. There are still people who remember the nightmare of the Time of Troubles, when the very existence of Russia as an independent state was at stake. In general, the war promised to be long, with an unclear outcome.

In addition, Moscow fought with Sweden for access to the Baltic Sea and relied on Poland as a future ally. In short, except for a headache, the adoption of Ukraine under his arm promised absolutely nothing to the Moscow Tsar. Khmelnitsky sent the first letter with a request to take Ukraine into citizenship to Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich in 1648, but for 6 years the king and the boyars refused all letters of the Ukrainian hetman. The Zemsky Sobor, convened in 1651 for decision-making, spoke, as they would say today, for the territorial integrity of the Polish state.

The situation is changing

After the victory at Berestechko, the Poles went to Ukraine by punitive expedition. On the side of the Polish crown were the Crimeans. The villages were burning, the Poles executed the participants of the recent battles, the Tatars were full for sale. In Ukraine, devastated starvation began. The Moscow Tsar abolished customs duties on grain exported to Ukraine, but this did not save the situation. The peasants who survived the Polish executions, the Tatar raids and the famine went in droves to Muscovy and Moldova. Volyn, Galicia, Bratslavshchina lost up to 40% of its population. Khmelnitsky ambassadors went again to Moscow with requests for help and protection.

Under the hand of the Moscow Tsar

In this situation, 1 in October 1653, the Zemsky Sobor took the fateful decision for Ukraine to accept her citizenship, and on October 23 declared war on Poland. By the end of 1655, by joint efforts, the whole of Ukraine and Galician Russia were liberated from the Poles (which the Galicians cannot forgive Russia to this day).

Taken under the sovereign’s hand, Ukraine was not occupied or simply annexed. The state maintained its administrative structure, its legal proceedings independent of Moscow, the election of the hetman, colonels, foremen and the city administration, the Ukrainian gentry and the laity retained all the property, privileges and liberties granted to them by the Polish authorities. Practically, Ukraine was part of the Moscow state as an autonomous entity. A strict ban was imposed only on foreign policy activities.

Parade of ambitions

In 1657, Bogdan Khmelnitsky died, leaving to his successors the largest state with a certain degree of independence, fenced from external intervention by the Ukrainian-Moscow treaty. And what did the colonels do? That's right, sharing power. Elected on the Chigirinsky Rada 1657, hetman Ivan Vygovskoy enjoyed support on the right bank, but had no support among the population of the left bank. The reason for the dislike was the pro-Western orientation of the newly elected hetman. (Oh, how familiar this is!) A rebellion broke out on the left bank, the leaders were the ataman of the Zaporizhzhya Sich Yakov Barabash and the Poltava colonel Martin Pushkar.

Problem Ukraine

To cope with the opposition, Vygovskoy called for help ... the Crimean Tatars! After the suppression of the rebellion, Krymchaks began to rush throughout Ukraine, collecting prisoners for the slave market in the Cafe (Theodosia). Rating hetman dropped to zero. In Moscow, in search of the truth, offended by the Vyhovsky foremen and Colonels, bringing with them news, from which the king and the boyars went round: taxes are not collected, 60.000 gold, which Moscow sent for the maintenance of registered Cossacks, disappeared unknown where (nothing like?), the hetman cuts the heads to obstinate colonels and centurions.

Treason

To restore order, the king sent an expeditionary force to Ukraine under the command of Prince Trubetskoy, who was defeated by Konotop from the combined Ukrainian-Tatar army. Together with the news of the defeat, news of open treason against Vyhovsky comes to Moscow. The hetman concluded a treaty with Poland, according to which Ukraine returns to the bosom of the Commonwealth, and in return provides troops for the war with Moscow and the consolidation of the position of the Ukrainian hetman. (Hadiach agreement1658) The news that Vygovskaya still swore to the Crimean Khan did not surprise anyone in Moscow.

New hetman, new contract

The contract concluded by Vyhovsky did not find support among the people (the memory of the Polish order was still fresh), the suppressed rebellion broke out with a new force. Hetman leave the last supporters. Under the pressure of the "foreman" (leading top), he renounces the mace. In order to extinguish the flames of civil war, Yury is chosen to be the hetman of Bohdan Khmelnitsky’s son, hoping that everyone will follow the national hero’s son. Yuri Khmelnitsky is going to Moscow to ask for help for Ukraine bloodied for civil war.

In Moscow, the delegation was met without enthusiasm. Treason sworn allegiance to the king Hetman and Colonels, the death of the troops specifically spoiled the atmosphere at the talks. Under the terms of the new treaty, the autonomy of Ukraine was curtailed; in order to control the situation, large-scale garrisons of Moscow archers were located in major cities.

New treason

In 1660, a squad under the command of the boyar Sheremetev came out from Kiev. (Russia, declaring war in 1654, Poland, still could not finish it.) Yuri Khmelnitsky with his army hurries to help, but hurries so that he does not have time. Under Slobodyshchem, he stumbles upon the Polish crown army, from which he is defeated and ... concludes a new treaty with the Poles. Ukraine is returning to Poland (although no autonomy is out of the question) and is committed to deploying troops for war with Russia.

The left bank that does not want to go under Poland chooses its hetman, Yakov Somka, who is raising Cossack regiments to the war against Yuri Khmelnitsky and sending ambassadors to Moscow asking for help.

Ruїna (Ukr.) - complete collapse, devastation

You can continue further. But the picture will be endlessly repeated: more than once the colonels will raise revolts for the right to possess the hetman's mace, and will not just run from one camp to another. The right bank and the left bank, choosing their hetmans, will endlessly fight against each other. This period entered the history of Ukraine as “RuPina”. (Very eloquently!) By signing new treaties (with Poland, the Crimea or Russia), the hetmans each time paid for military support with political, economic and territorial concessions. In the end, from the former "Square" there was only one memory left.

After the betrayal of hetman Mazepa, Peter destroyed the last vestiges of Ukraine’s independence, and the hetman’s very breathing incense was abolished in the 1781 year, when the general provision on gubernias was extended to Little Russia. That's how ingloriously ended the attempts of the Ukrainian elite to sit on two chairs at the same time (or alternately). The chairs parted, Ukraine fell and broke into several ordinary Russian provinces.

The problem of choice

It is fair to say that for the Ukrainian people the problem of choosing between the West and the East never existed. Taking enthusiastically every step of rapprochement with Russia, the villagers and ordinary Cossacks always sharply negatively greeted all attempts of their pantry to go over to the camp of its enemies. Neither Vyhovskaya, nor Yuri Khmelnitsky, nor Mazepa could gather a truly popular army, like Bogdan Khmelnitsky, under their banners.

Will the story repeat?

According to knowledgeable people, history repeats itself all the time, and there is nothing under the sun that there would not be before. The current situation in Ukraine painfully recalls the events of more than three hundred years ago, when the country, like today, faced a difficult choice between the West and the East. To predict how things can end, it’s enough to remember how things ended 350 years ago. Will the current Ukrainian elite have enough wisdom not to plunge the country, like its predecessors, into chaos and anarchy, followed by a complete loss of independence?

Slipy: “We'll break.”
Author:
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  1. shark
    shark 16 December 2013 08: 54
    21
    Only a blind man steps on the same rake twice. Article plus. A lot becomes clear.
    1. Letnab
      Letnab 16 December 2013 09: 02
      13
      Time passes, but the problems are the same! Here it is numb .. And they strive to eat fish, and sit on a little baby ...
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Klim podkova
          16 December 2013 10: 55
          +8
          In the 17th century, Ukraine was part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, and its inhabitants were considered subjects of Poland. Those considered themselves and the Ukrainian gentry. (Then such a term was used) Bogdan Khmelnitsky fought as a Polish citizen as part of the Polish army, participated in the siege by the Poles of Smolensk in 1634, and even received a golden sword from the Polish king for bravery. Ukrainian gentry repeatedly appealed to polish king with complaints of harassment of the Polish gentry.
          1. Nicholas C.
            Nicholas C. 16 December 2013 11: 56
            +8
            Quote: Klim Podkova
            Bogdan Khmelnitsky fought as a Polish subject in the Polish army, participated in the siege of the Smolensk Poles in 1634

            That’s how it’s all running for you. But it’s nothing that Smolensk, according to the Deulinsky truce of 1618 (19), went to Poland and belonged to it before the Andrusovsky truce. In 1634, Smolensk was a Polish city. How could the Poles besiege him? True, in 1633, he was besieged ... by the troops of the Russian kingdom.

            Quote: Klim Podkova
            Ukrainian gentry

            There was no such state as Ukraine, respectively, and there were no Ukrainian gentry. The territory of modern Ukraine then for the most part was part of the Crimean Khanate. A small strip in the north after the Blue Waters departed from the Golden Horde to Lithuania. Accordingly, there was a hereditary Lithuanian gentry. But, as you know, at the conclusion of the Union of Lublin, the Poles annexed this northern strip of modern Ukraine from Lithuania.
            1. Klim podkova
              16 December 2013 12: 27
              +1
              Quite rightly, in the Smolensk war 1633-1634 Smolensk was in the hands of the Poles, and the Russians besieged it, but does this change anything in the biography of B. Khmelnitsky? In 1634, he considers himself a subject of the Polish king, serves him faithfully and is not going to rebel.
        2. GastaClaus69
          GastaClaus69 16 December 2013 12: 36
          -4
          Quote: Nikolai S.
          I will knock out the whole Rusz people from lyatsk captivity "- the Russian people, not the Little Russian"

          In fact, Ruthenian, not Russian.
          In the Ukrainian language, there is a division between Russia and Russia: Russian - Russian (names of the nation from the name of the country Russia), Russian - Russian (from the ethnonym Rus)
          1. GDP
            GDP 16 December 2013 13: 43
            0
            That Russia, that Russia - this does not change the essence, and here and there the basis of the state was the Russian People.
            1. GastaClaus69
              GastaClaus69 16 December 2013 14: 27
              -6
              Distorting the name is not good!
              1. Rebus
                Rebus 16 December 2013 15: 24
                +1
                Quote: GastaClaus69
                Distorting the name is not good!

                Are you a linguist?
                Or are you a native speaker of the "reference" language, like Valery Bebik? ...
              2. Shur
                Shur 17 December 2013 01: 47
                0
                Read G. Grinevich , you will see names like Rosiyuniya .. Rosiya .. Yes, and genetically one people and essentially one.
              3. Drlivsi
                Drlivsi 17 December 2013 01: 47
                0
                And yet an interesting fact: http://warfiles.ru/show-44249-moguchie-belorusy-i-nichtozhnye-pribalty.html
          2. EvilLion
            EvilLion 16 December 2013 15: 10
            0
            There is no Ukrainian language. And with your Russian language go to hell.
          3. Baemaley99
            Baemaley99 16 December 2013 20: 33
            -1
            Well then, the Ukrainian language is nothing more than a mixture of Polish and Russian languages. The Poles wanted to enlighten Maloros lands and corroded not only their native language but also their faith. From Orthodoxy to Catholicism.
    2. ShturmKGB
      ShturmKGB 16 December 2013 10: 53
      +5
      Apparently, for the safety of its own people, Ukraine constantly needs a "master", so that it can give hands and butts in time ...
    3. Horde
      Horde 16 December 2013 19: 26
      -2
      As a newborn Ukraine in the XVII century, was looking for its place in Europe and what came of it


      EVERYTHING WAS NOT SO ...


      this time the middle of the seventeenth century, the second half is the most interesting in the history of Russia-Russia.
      First of all, talking about UKRAINE as an independent state with a capital, flag, anthem, governing bodies, army is NOT CONSTITUTELY and historically false. Ukraine is a product of the 20th century.
      Secondly, the difficult time for Russia — the Time of Troubles — is WAR FOR THE THRONG of one TsAR-IMPERIAL kind. As they called it, historians have safely forgotten that TI are called the Rurikovichs, but everyone understands that the NORMANIAN THEORY for Russia was invented by the Germans in the 18th century. In short, the founding father of the Polish, and then the Swedish family VAZA was the SON of Ivan4 Dmitry, who did not die as a child, and occupied the western imperial lands of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, however, as it was called about the state, it is no longer known. His sons began to own the lands of Sveisky and Polish and Crimean all the noble royal clans in Europe went from him, presumably that Simeon Bekbulatovich went to the GIREEV family in the Crimea. But at the same time, they were all considered the LEGAL HEIRS of the MOSCOW EMPIRE-HORDE. Therefore, all these numerous wars, that's why everyone is Crimean, and Poles, and the sights of VAZ and Girei, everyone wanted to take the throne of the EMPEROR, King of MOSCOW.
      Thirdly, a remarkable moment at that time there were no other STATE LANGUAGES, the language was ONE FOR EVERYONE - RUSSIAN. There are ancient documents, for example, SLEEPY SPEECH at the funeral of SVEYSKY King Charles 11 written in Latin, but IN RUSSIAN.


      Naturally, the KAZAKIs are the imperial troops everywhere they were called differently by the MONGOLS THE GREAT, the TATARS is already later and the westernizing name.
      http://istclub.ru/
    4. Horde
      Horde 16 December 2013 19: 45
      -1
      The eighteenth century is notable for the fact that Tsar Alexei, for some reason called Alexei Mikhailovich, as a boyar, some kind of stupid prefix, QUIET. He turned out to be a true collector of Russian lands. The royal commanders Buturlin and Bogdan Khmelnitsky were able to defeat the Polish-Lithuanian-Swedish alliance. called ALL THE EARTH FROM DNIPER TO THE DANUBE.
      Yes, so that LITHUANIA ceased to exist. Here is an excerpt from the son of the Antiochian patriarch PAUL ALEPSKI former, just at that time with a visit to MOSCOW.
      Here is how the contemporary of events, Pavel Aleppsky, describes the military conquests: “They (voivode Buturlin and Bogdan Khmelnitsky) took twenty-eight fortresses and cities from the Poles, including a city named Lublin, which in their language means“ a city of assembly ”, for Poles in the era of their power gathered in it for meetings. They defeated the great hetman Lyakhov Pavel Pototsky "(1). The acquisitions touched precisely the Polish lands, Bogdan Khmelnitsky fought along with the royal governor Buturlin, because initially he represented not the Zaporozhye robbers, but the famous Russian army.


      this is the general !!! and they hang noodles on our ears, saying that they say Alexey Mikhalych - the SILENT mole.
      1. Horde
        Horde 16 December 2013 19: 56
        -1
        Quote: Horde
        The eighteenth century is notable for the fact that Tsar Alexei named for some reason by historians Alexei Mikhailovich, as a boyar


        seventeenth sorry ...
  2. Igor39
    Igor39 16 December 2013 09: 03
    11
    As the articles about Ukraine are so sick, let them go wherever they want. Time will judge everyone.
    1. rerbi
      rerbi 16 December 2013 09: 23
      0
      It's not so simple, there are some nuances:

      http://www.allmirest.org/news/vernite_vse_nashe_i_valite/2013-12-15-300

      wink
      1. rolik2
        rolik2 16 December 2013 10: 47
        -14 qualifying.
        Quote: rerbi
        there are some nuances

        So who needs these nuances?
        And so it is clear that the author took the story by the ears in confirmation of his theory. At that time there was such a mess that this hour will figure out that there is no way.
        The main purpose of the article is to rekindle another Russian-Ukrainian srach.
        To oppose one people to another.
        I want to ask the aftor do you have the appropriate education? Or did you use the Internet to write articles?
        For whose money do you work Gaspadin author?
        1. ATATA
          ATATA 16 December 2013 11: 01
          +5
          Quote: rolik2
          I want to ask the aftor do you have the appropriate education? Or did you use the Internet to write articles?
          For whose money do you work Gaspadin author?

          And what exactly do you think is not true in the article?
          1. rolik2
            rolik2 16 December 2013 11: 11
            -4
            Quote: ATATA
            And what exactly do you think is not true in the article


            The course of history was laid out in principle without distortion, but are the author’s conclusions based on his own guesses and beliefs, or did the author see Khmelnitsky’s memoirs or diaries, or someone else who made history then?

            I consider the interpretation of history without proper knowledge in this area, and even less soiling and customizing it under my political views, unacceptable.
            1. kagorta
              kagorta 16 December 2013 12: 44
              +9
              This is just the opinion of the author. Conclusions are not the main thing, the main thing is genetics ... wink .
              And dry facts without the conclusions of the author. I liked most of all about Konotop. Trubetskoy negotiated with Vygovsky for forty days (he swore an oath to the tsar, who was appointed hetman by the tsar until his maturity, and then approved by the hetman) so that he would not break the oath, and that Tatars called at this time. Then he was forced to besiege Konotop, since you cannot ask for treason, you understand. And here in the rear of Vygovskaya with friends of the Ukrainian people, Tatars and Poles. The Russian cavalry is killed in an ambush, rushing to save the rear. He dies out of stupidity, of course, since he does not conduct intelligence. And then the infantry retreats almost without loss. But what the betrayal of part of the Ukrainian elite at that moment resulted in, for Russia. Only the Crimean Khan won, who in August 1659, devastating the lands of Eletsky, Livensky, Novosilsky, Mtsensky, Kursk, Bolkhovsky, Voronezh (and this is all Russia) and other counties, drove more than 25 people to Crimea. And then the Ukrainians quarreled with you. And then you have "Ruin" because of your foolishness. And you send Yurka to us to ask to save you. So I imagine the tsar sits "scratching his turnips" and thinks about it, whether or not it’s the son of a friend of the Russian people Khmelnitsky, or maybe all the same on the count ...
              Russia needs to split Ukraine along the Dnieper. And take only "yours". Namely Donbas, Kharkiv, Dneprpetrovsk, Kryvyi Rih and Crimea. Let everything else go through the forest, even Kiev. This should be done through the distribution of passports, friendship of border regions. Suppose, for example, Belgorodtransgaz sells gas to Kharkivtrangaz for a cheap price. All kinds of development and cooperation, plus propaganda and cultural exchange, a quota for students from these regions in the best universities in the country. And for all the rest of the Ukrainians to make it so that the sky was like a sheepskin.
              1. ele1285
                ele1285 16 December 2013 14: 46
                +3
                One Ukrainian underground, two partisan detachment, three Ukrainian partisan detachment with a traitor.
              2. Horde
                Horde 16 December 2013 19: 51
                +1
                Quote: kagorta
                Russia needs to split Ukraine along the Dnieper. And take only "yours". Namely Donbas, Kharkiv, Dneprpetrovsk, Kryvyi Rih and Crimea. Let everything else go through the forest, even Kiev


                yes no buddy KIEV is also our land and, in general, if the little ones are not friends, oh they will be enemies unambiguously, however, the Zhydovsk Kremlin has Slavic drum experiences ...
            2. Shur
              Shur 17 December 2013 02: 05
              0
              An appropriate comment on the background of statements in the style of Ukraine-Russia ..
        2. Fin
          Fin 16 December 2013 12: 39
          +3
          Quote: rolik2
          The main purpose of the article is to rekindle another Russian-Ukrainian srach.

          Well, actually here about the story, it is written in textbooks.
        3. Shur
          Shur 17 December 2013 02: 01
          +1
          That's just "srach" is needed not by the author of the article, but by the authors of "Ukraine and Europe". Hardly for the money, we are brotherly sorry for you .. That's just from the newly minted ukrov I hear about different nations. How are they different? Appearance, kinship, differences in the language of culture, faith, blood? Even though I have roots from Zaporozhye, I do not consider myself a half-breed. Grandfather and he said, one blood. Who are you there anyway then? Damn all the Cossacks over the Siberia were dispersed under the Red Terror .. So that you know by blood and the Poles are our brothers and not only them .. Take the boundaries out of your head first, Maydauns ..
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Fin
      Fin 16 December 2013 12: 36
      +1
      Quote: Igor39
      As the articles about Ukraine are so sick, let them go wherever they want. Time will judge everyone.

      Yes, the fact of the matter is that they themselves will not go anywhere. Each pan considers himself great, independent and solely smart.
      I read Ruin - the ass is full. And here at stake is a bunch of acquired overwork.
    3. GastaClaus69
      GastaClaus69 16 December 2013 12: 38
      +1
      This people have long been ... forgotten all the worries, and Rome, that once
      He handed out everything: legions, and power, and ligament lictors,
      Restrained now, and worries about only two things:
      Bread and circuses!
    4. Powder donut
      Powder donut 17 December 2013 13: 19
      0
      And I wouldn’t abandon mine, it’s better to cut Ukraine into two parts, eastern and western. And it’s even better to tie them to us. There are peaceful ways.
  3. Rebus
    Rebus 16 December 2013 09: 04
    +8
    From the lair of the serpent,
    From the city of Kiev, ...
    N. S. Gumilev

    Or was Gumilev right about the den?
    1. 222222
      222222 16 December 2013 09: 44
      21
      Rebus (2) RU Today, 09:04 AM New
      From the lair of the serpent,
      Out of the city ... Washington
      The guests are often filthy for us,
      Overseas gifts were brought
      Treated with cain cookies
      They promised life to us paradise ..
      European non-Slavic
      1. avt
        avt 16 December 2013 10: 09
        +7
        Quote: 222222
        The guests are often filthy for us,

        Yeah ! And after feeding the US Deputy Secretary of State with biscuits and filming the concert with a senator, surrounded by Klitschky who was hard-pressed and indulged, I don’t even want to laugh. There’s a fairy tale about a kid of a monstrosity. This is already some kind of phantasmagoria, here obviously the maydauns need psychiatrists urgently.
        1. 222222
          222222 16 December 2013 10: 19
          +4
          avt (3) SU Today, 10:09 ↑ New
          Yeah ! And after hand-feeding, the USA Deputy Secretary of State .. "
          This is all extras .. look who is the conductor ..
          “On Monday, December 16, the People's Deputy of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko will hold a meeting in Brussels with the President of the European Union, Poroshenko said on Sunday, December 15, from the stage of the Euromaidan during the People's Council.
          "Tomorrow I will go to Brussels, and I will have a meeting with the President of the European Union. Ukraine will be in Europe, Ukraine will sign an association agreement," Poroshenko stressed ... "
          ..and he turned to the Maidan so that the Maidan would give him the authority to go to Europe and negotiate .. did you understand what it is ????

          http://obozrevatel.com/politics/73094-viche.htm
          http://www.mignews.com.ua/ru/articles/151331.html
          1. avt
            avt 16 December 2013 13: 29
            +1
            Quote: 222222
            ..and he turned to the Maidan so that the Maidan would give him the authority to go to Europe and negotiate .. did you understand what it is ????

            In general, this is a palace coup in a classical performance with unpredictable consequences, such as February 1917. And if in 17th, even in October, it all came down to a farce, compared with the ongoing world war, you cannot call a leapfrog in power otherwise. , independent "country, this is no longer funny! The crow of Washington is not in vain flocked to the Maidan - they will correct financial affairs by killing the state" Ukraine ". Sells Poroshenko's country, the whole, with the entire population, in bulk.
  4. borisjdin1957
    borisjdin1957 16 December 2013 09: 54
    +8
    from the Don.
    Pick up to the Dnieper, fucking, and let the rest be cheated in Geyropu! Tired, no strength !!!
    1. stroporez
      stroporez 16 December 2013 10: 37
      0
      almost like balls ------- "Oh, split everything ...". there is no way ........
    2. ATATA
      ATATA 16 December 2013 11: 02
      +6
      Quote: borisjdin1957
      from the Don.
      Pick up to the Dnieper, fucking, and let the rest be cheated in Geyropu! Tired, no strength !!!

      And Crimea and the South. It did not belong to Ukraine in 1654.
      1. borisjdin1957
        borisjdin1957 16 December 2013 11: 49
        +2
        from the Don.
        I agree!!!
        1. Motors1991
          Motors1991 16 December 2013 17: 13
          +2
          What are you scattering with state lands, the svidomye did not conquer a single piece of Ukraine and they rightfully owned two arshins of land, one in length and the other in depth. According to the article. In Soviet times, the role of the people in history was exaggerated (wise people, people knows) and the role of personality was diminished. Now, on the contrary: Khmelnitsky decided, Vygovsky decided, etc. But these people in their actions relied on certain segments of the population, if you look from this point of view, much becomes clear. Khmelnitsky fled in the late autumn of 1647. Zaporizhzhya Sich, they didn’t accept him there as a “banita” (bandit) of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. All winter he hid on the Bottom, the Bottom is a hack that the Cossacks despised and didn’t let on the Sich. From this hog created Bogdan Khmelnitsky created no the army and with this army he moved to Sich in the spring and captured it, in fact it was his first victory, not the Yellow Waters at all. So, during his activity B. Khmelnitsky relied on the mob, namely the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealths The villagers were the basis of his army, not the Cossacks, because in his actions he took into account the mood of the common people. And the people were drawn to Russia for the simple reason that the peasant lived in Muscovy much easier. Under the law, he worked three days for a gentleman, three days for themselves and Sunday off, they could neither sell nor kill him. The Cossack elite did not like it, they were satisfied with the position of the peasants, as in Poland they had undivided property, I note that even ordinary Cossacks despised the peasantry. They believed that the Commonwealth Orthodox God was allowed to pray and enough of them. From here there were unrest and riots, as a result, ordinary people simply fled from the Right Bank to the Left Bank from the Cossack lawlessness under the scepter of the Russian Tsar. Since then, it turns out: the people and the elite have different aspirations, because the state of Ukraine, even if the state of Ukraine, it is artificially created, it will certainly fall apart.
      2. Canep
        Canep 16 December 2013 12: 14
        +3
        Crimea and so on this side of the Dnieper. And you are right about the south. But without blood, this full house will not work. It would be better if the management of the independence would make some kind of decision. Already many are tired of pulling the cat's balls. This cannot go on forever.
    3. Teacher
      Teacher 16 December 2013 16: 40
      0
      No need to pick up, they themselves will come, and along with several areas west of the Dnieper, the rest will vegetate, growing cilantro for the brown-eyed Europeans.
  5. Prohor
    Prohor 16 December 2013 09: 54
    +5
    In my opinion, it is high time to recognize that there are two Ukraine - right-and left-bank, with pronounced European and Russian orientation, respectively. And they will never agree. Why would they not quietly disperse, how did the Czechs and the Slovaks disperse?
    To reproach the Slavic brothers for the lack of love for us is ridiculous. If someone doesn’t love me, it doesn’t mean that this “someone” is necessarily bad, maybe it’s me who is bad?
  6. MOPKOBKA2000
    MOPKOBKA2000 16 December 2013 10: 30
    -12 qualifying.
    hellish nonsense, a tale from his bell tower
    1. ATATA
      ATATA 16 December 2013 11: 07
      +1
      Quote: MOPKOBKA2000
      hellish nonsense, a tale from his bell tower

      And what nonsense is that?
      Have you ever taught history?
    2. Rider
      Rider 16 December 2013 11: 32
      +4
      Quote: MOPKOBKA2000
      hellish nonsense, a tale from his bell tower


      respected vegetable, type in "ruin" in Google and make sure that EVERYTHING is true.
  7. Des10
    Des10 16 December 2013 10: 44
    +3
    Not tired of proving the benefits of an alliance with Russia and the CU? .. would it be much easier if Ukraine were associated) with the EU. All + and - would be designated by themselves, and then they would not have to agitate anyone.
    1. Bezarius
      Bezarius 16 December 2013 11: 10
      +1
      In principle, I hold a similar position. But still ... There are too many Russians in Ukraine, I would not want to leave them.
      1. Rider
        Rider 16 December 2013 11: 35
        +2
        Quote: Bezarius
        There are too many Russians in Ukraine, I would not want to leave them.

        why quit?
        after the second ruin, all who remain alive will return to the arm of the next Russian Tsar.
        there is no other alternative.

        either with Russia, or again to the slaves.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  8. Semenov
    Semenov 16 December 2013 11: 01
    +2
    Not my words, but ... "This is the theater of the absurd - watching a handful of people on the Maidan call on the government of 46 million Ukraine to significantly reduce wages and pensions, sharply increase unemployment and ruin agriculture, liquidate industry and production, increase gas prices and the impoverishment of the population. And the people believe that failure to sign an agreement with the EU is a betrayal and deprivation of a "bright future."
  9. ed65b
    ed65b 16 December 2013 11: 02
    +2
    Will the current Ukrainian elite have the wisdom not to plunge the country, like its predecessors, into chaos and anarchy, followed by a complete loss of independence?
    Judging by the story, no.
  10. Bezarius
    Bezarius 16 December 2013 11: 09
    +2
    Will the story repeat?

    Those who do not know their stories are doomed to repeat it.
  11. Oberst_71
    Oberst_71 16 December 2013 11: 12
    +1
    Yes, God bless him with the European Union. then obviously it will be NATO. Moreover, if this issue is not resolved by the voluntary consent of the Ukrainian government, then this issue will be resolved again on the Maidan, which certain circles will gather. This very circles understood that it is still quite easy to manipulate the masses in Ukraine.
    1. Prohor
      Prohor 16 December 2013 11: 25
      +1
      Quote: Oberst_71
      Yes, God bless him with the European Union. then obviously it will be NATO. Moreover, if this issue is not resolved by the voluntary consent of the Ukrainian government, then this issue will be resolved again on the Maidan, which certain circles will gather. This very circles understood that it is still quite easy to manipulate the masses in Ukraine.

      And what prevents us from doing this? Cheap and effective.
  12. kirgudu
    kirgudu 16 December 2013 14: 24
    0
    I don’t even know how to relate to the article. It seems that the partition of Ukraine seems to be suggesting itself, but that is what the overseas are seeking the owners friends of power and protest.


    It seems that only under the Union of the Ukrainian SSR and lived without any civil strife there.
    1. Klim podkova
      16 December 2013 14: 41
      +1
      Do not rush between the two banks. Having joined Russia as a junior partner with a voice, Ukraine lost its statehood during its maneuvers, and by the beginning of the 20th century, being part of Russia, did not even have the status of Poland or Finland. Today's constant voyages of the Ukrainian presidents from Moscow to Brussels and back will have the same consequences. Ukraine has the full right to make a decision. So when will it be accepted?
  13. EvilLion
    EvilLion 16 December 2013 15: 22
    +2
    Having started the war by demanding limited Cossack autonomy in the Dnieper region, Khmelnitsky has already fought for the liberation of the entire Ukrainian people from Polish captivity


    What nafig the Ukrainian people? There were no Ukrainians then. There were "Russians". And the whole war is only the result of the Polish system, when anyone with a saber and a gang of thugs could defend their rights, and Khmelnytsky was stupidly offended with a farm and his wife was kidnapped, but the authorities did not resolve the issue. And spreading the storm, in which he even won militarily, he did not take Warsaw, since he was not going to change anything.

    Surviving after Polish executions, Tatar raids and famines, the villagers in droves left for Muscovy and Moldova.


    They had already fled there from the monsieur lawlessness.

    taxes are not collected


    Taxes? Getmans even in the era of Mazepa did not pay anything to the treasury, but only stole. And Moscow endured, if only they would not run across, which, however, did not save. In general, this clearly demonstrates that Russia does not need any Ukraine, Chernihiv, Poltava, Kiev, etc. regions are needed, otherwise this process will be endless.
    1. Cristall
      Cristall 17 December 2013 02: 57
      -1
      Quote: EvilLion
      and Khmelnitsky stupidly offended with the farm and his wife stole

      By the way, he probably loved his wife. But at the same time his son was mortally beaten (the guy died from beating) who was trying to protect the house. Actually, it’s like an ordinary case - but wife + son + house (took Chaplinsky to himself, and the hop documents were invalidated)
      About his wife Hmel is still a fine fellow ... changed 3 times. And he returned the stolen wife (though Timokha pulled her up at the gate, well, it's like "welding")
      The essence does not change --- the mess of the Polish administration in the absence of any rights and opportunities of the Rusyns generated hatred of rebellion and revenge ... it caught fire like kerosene.
      Hop was a good skillful lighter and leader.
      Quote: EvilLion
      Russia does not need any Ukraine, Chernihiv, Poltava, Kiev, etc. regions are needed, otherwise this process will be endless.

      So you can’t save yourself the volosts if you distribute them. Either all or nothing. Actually, when Poland and Finland were also part of the Republic of Ingushetia.
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 17 December 2013 15: 57
        0
        I have in mind the complete liquidation of the formation of Ukraine itself, divided into regions and annexed to the Southern and / or Central Federal Districts. Well, the Galicians to Poland. This is a punishment.

        How did Finland enter ... It is better not to have such entries at all.
  14. Ross
    Ross 16 December 2013 15: 41
    +1
    Quote: shark
    Only a blind man steps on the same rake twice. Article plus. A lot becomes clear.

    Unfortunately genes ... They form the behavioral psyche. In addition, then there was still no such powerful machine of total lies as today's media. In Ukraine, they work at 100% to the West.
  15. Ross
    Ross 16 December 2013 15: 44
    +1
    ShturmKGB
    Apparently, for the safety of its own people, Ukraine constantly needs a "master", so that it can give hands and butts in time ...

    To the very point! The whole previous story is an example.
  16. xan
    xan 16 December 2013 15: 50
    0
    The Ukrainian Ruin ceased when the strengthened Russian state was able to solve problems with Poland, the Crimea, local hitans, and sometimes all together. Catherine abolished hetmanism when it became an unnecessary relic of the past.
    All measures of the Russian government can be explained by practical expediency from the point of view of Russian statehood. Ukrainians can also be understood, some consider themselves separate from the Russian people, and want to live as a separate state. Normal desire, who is against? But what about the lands that the Russians accidentally ended up in Ukraine? The hit people consider them their own, which, according to the Russians, is not fair. What to do with this?
  17. zub46
    zub46 16 December 2013 16: 37
    0
    So will Ukraine go to the EU as a carcass or a scarecrow?
    1. Rider
      Rider 16 December 2013 17: 56
      +2
      Quote: zub46
      So will Ukraine go to the EU as a carcass or a scarecrow?


      CANCER.
  18. komandir8
    komandir8 16 December 2013 18: 13
    0
    History only teaches that it never taught anything to the nations ... A pity.
  19. Cristall
    Cristall 16 December 2013 18: 16
    +1
    Well, when Poland was strong, the people of Ruthenians (namely Ruthenians, not Ukrainians or Russians) did not rock the boat. Although there were rebellions for granted. You can give examples of the reign of Stephen Bathory.
    But Poland with its state. the device and the Sejm got not only Rusyns but also mine. Their king for a view-diet is blocked by anyone. Everywhere the will of the lords. Naturally, no rights of the Rusyns were discussed there. Before Hops there were a lot of uprisings. He is the only one who succeeded in the uprising. Do not forget that he knew the whole Polish system. He knew politics (he was educated, the clerk worked hard) In general, his talent and leadership impulse easily led to success. The real leader everyone was following. By the way, you don’t find that he is only with Muscovy. He thought with the Swedes (in our textbooks this is presented as the best option, where the patron has no border with you) and began an uprising with the Tatar corps.
    In principle, if it were not for the difficult situation and age, perhaps he would have been able to form a strong administration that would not have allowed the "Ruinists" to do business.
    And so "shcha may be that may"
    People’s) Vizvolva’s war) war is not an example of today's situation. Thank God we lived in the USSR and education means something.
    Enough Maidan to equate with all the people. The people are working. Throat-gorlapanyat. I read the comments on various articles and came to the conclusion that the people have a good sense of humor (an offer to collect gasoline for Ruslana, for example, or purgen + sleeping pills for food for Maidanists) and this is good. No splits. Splits are only in the head of some. And the country does not rave about it. The bad thing is that they all fell at once and the 5th column and external well-wishers.
  20. Booby
    Booby 16 December 2013 18: 50
    +1
    Quote: Cristall
    . (in our textbooks this is presented as the best option, where the patron has no border with you)

    Do not Americans write textbooks there for you? )))
    1. Cristall
      Cristall 17 December 2013 02: 48
      0
      when Hops sent an embassy to the Swedish king, there was no mention of amers (17th century)
      Well, there are similarities in choosing a patron) Perhaps, Poland’s path from the great to the bed is proposed ... Ukraine, unlike the Poles, chose the opposite.
      You’ll laugh, but sometimes Americans (Canadians) really write us textbooks. They say they in the diaspora understand better than ours what to teach children ...
      I made a note to myself how to present the very subject of history to children. So that teachers could not enter the malware into the Bius of children.
  21. Leshka
    Leshka 16 December 2013 18: 51
    0
    how much time has passed and there is nothing to remember
  22. homosum20
    homosum20 16 December 2013 19: 25
    0
    I don’t remember where:
    .. hedgehogs pricked cacti, cried, but continued to eat them ..
    Well, right about the Ukrainians.
  23. uzer 13
    uzer 13 16 December 2013 20: 40
    0
    In the historical novels of G. Senkevich (Flood, Fire and Sword, etc.), some events of that time are described in more detail. Poles in them, of course, always defeat enemies, but there are many household details, a description of customs, etiquette, and features from the life of the gentry.
  24. unknown
    unknown 16 December 2013 21: 04
    0
    Actually, Stefan Batory is based on the latest research from the Magyars. Of ours, that is
    Well, there are no Finno-Ugric peoples, this Mordovia is one, no matter how you call it by different names.
    And the name itself is very strange for the king-Stephen, Stepan in our opinion, and even Bathory, Batyr, Bogatyr.
    The strange royal name is just right for the Cossack chieftain.
    And the whole history of the Polish state is strange.
    Before the Great Troubles, the territory of so-called Poland was part of the Moravian state with its capital in Prague. Krolevets (in the pseudo-German history of Koenigsberg) was founded precisely by the Czech king.
    No gentry noblemen (gangs of robbers off the high road, organized by family) had no relation
    The gentry rose during the Time of Troubles and the death of a single state, its fragmentation into independent fragments.

    Our 90s cast into the past.

    Having got to power, the bandits of those years appropriated the history of neighboring lands.
    True Poland is Little Russia, and true Lithuania is Little Russia.
    And their union from sea to sea is People’s Sich.
  25. unknown
    unknown 16 December 2013 21: 07
    0
    True Lithuania-White Russia. More correct
  26. unknown
    unknown 16 December 2013 21: 07
    0
    True Lithuania-White Russia. More correct
  27. voliador
    voliador 16 December 2013 22: 22
    0
    It is not a matter of wisdom, but of self-interest. So much dough is at stake - any of the current Ukrainian political elite will want to warm the handles.
  28. olegom
    olegom 16 December 2013 23: 15
    0
    The Customs Union - in 1918!

    When the third Hetman’s cabinet was formed in October 1918, the post of Minister of Trade and Industry in it went to the prominent sugar factory owner and landowner Sergei Mering (he kept his portfolio in the next Gerbel government). He was the son of a famous doctor in Kiev, Professor Fedor Mering.

    His ministry at that time occupied the premises of the current Institute of Geology along Stolypinskaya Street (now Olesya Gonchara), 55-b.

    The correspondent of the newspaper "Kievskaya Mysl" interviewed the newly appointed minister. He emphasized his non-partisanship and noted that he came to the government, being opposed to "artificial restraint of the boundaries of the economic activity of the people." Developing this topic, Sergei Mering resorted to rhetoric that strikingly resembles the present time:

    "To promote the development of trade and industry, it will be necessary to carry out a number of urgent measures ... It is very important to have the correct tariff and customs policy, which should be aimed at protecting the weak Ukrainian industry from the dominance of Western Europe and at least establishing a customs union between Ukraine and the rest of the country. of the former Russian empire. Without such a union, Ukraine will, on the one hand, have to compete with Western Europe in marketing its products to the rest of Russia, and on the other hand, Ukraine will become a field of exploitation for Western European industry, not held back by competition from Russian industry. "
  29. The comment was deleted.
  30. Cristall
    Cristall 17 December 2013 03: 11
    0
    Yes, it’s difficult for us, it’s difficult to conduct an independent policy, it’s not rich. Yes, and we are ideally between a rock and a hard place. A total of 45 million people cannot influence the processes in the world and even in the region. Especially do not claim and did not claim any leadership anywhere. If you think that our land gave geniuses, but rarely great managers ... traders of scientists and so on, yes, but the statesmen were either bored here and they quickly dumped them in St. Petersburg (K. Rozumovsky example) or did their work here (Mazepa, Sahaidachny) by virtue of his skills, it did not matter.
    We probably have the main difference between the veins (I do not want to say that we are different) is not - to do great things here. In the USSR, when the main consciousness was that you were primarily a Soviet citizen and 1/6 of the land --- it directly forced the mind and body to try to comply with this. And now 600 km45 and 3 million people are not contributing to this. Not that consciousness is not consistent. Here, in general, you can find the only difference between Russian and Ukrainian (recognition of the great, first of all, from the grandeur of a country of its size) who is so ..hot and chaotic. We were all like that when we were allied, and separately the most heinous features of nationality sometimes wake up in us (having plucked XNUMX carbovanets and into a tavern - similarly to Tolstoy - I hacked a penny and a tavern)
    1. Corsair
      Corsair 17 December 2013 03: 21
      0
      Quote: Cristall
      having plucked 3 carbovanets and into the tavern - similarly to Tolstoy - he hijacked a half of the tavern

      Well, here, forgive me, there is a tremendous difference between "nazaruvav" (synonymous with theft) and "bargain".
      But in general, the phrase better reflects the mentality of those who seized power so:
      "I’ll make a ruble for forty, I will"
      1. sapran
        sapran 17 December 2013 19: 17
        0
        Well, there’s no arguing against the truth ... For there hasn’t been a single statesman in modern Ukraine ...
  31. MaxRus
    MaxRus 20 November 2015 13: 03
    0
    The trouble of Ukraine is the inability of its own identification, hence Bandera, Shushkevich and Mazepa! Therefore, tell me who your friend is ... But, build your statehood on dubious grounds, namely: the aggression of Russia, the passionarity of the Ukrainian people and a sense of belonging to European civilization! Yes, it will not be easy to fill the gaps in history, culture, art!

    And the funny thing is that our government is the same as in Ukraine, it’s just richer and can steal arrogantly and unscrupulously, shouting, at all angles, about the sociality of power, justice and bypassed.
    But in fact, Sochi with a budget exceeded seven times!
    One Olympics for the price of seven!

    SAD
  32. MaxRus
    MaxRus 20 November 2015 13: 08
    0
    [quote = MaxRus] The trouble of Ukraine is the inability of its own identification, hence Bandera, Shushkevich and Mazepa! Therefore, tell me who your friend is ... But, build your statehood on dubious grounds, namely: the aggression of Russia, the passionarity of the Ukrainian people and a sense of belonging to European civilization! Yes, it will not be easy to fill the gaps in history, culture, art!

    And the funny thing is that our government is the same as in Ukraine, it’s just richer and can steal arrogantly and unscrupulously, shouting, at all angles, about the sociality of power, justice and bypassed.
    But in fact, Sochi with a budget exceeded seven times!
    One Olympics for the price of seven!

    SAD :(