Military Review

Aviation history. How MiG-31 closed the Soviet sky to the American strategic intelligence officer SR-71

134

Even if the SR-71 Blackbird supersonic strategic reconnaissance planes were never shot down during the entire period of service in the US Air Force, they were confronted with an adversary who could do it - the MiG-31 (NATO code - Foxhound), December, The Aviationist 11 wrote .


The SR-71 had impressive performance due to the unique properties of the airframe, the ability to fly at speeds above 3,5M at an altitude of 88 kt. Ft. (26800 m), a small EPR at that time, and a powerful electronic countermeasure system. Such high performance allowed this aircraft to make reconnaissance flights over the Soviet Union during the Cold War.

The only aircraft that had the technical capabilities of its interception was the American carrier-based fighter F-14 Tomcat with high-speed long-range air combat missiles AIM-54 Phoenix. But these missiles were optimized to intercept Soviet cruise missiles, which flew at the same height as the SR-71, but the Phoenixes, having an 4-5M speed, were fast enough to intercept this aircraft.

In order to stop SR-71 flights, the USSR developed an interceptor with F-14 capabilities. Before the MiG-31, the only Soviet combat aircraft with speed close to the SR-71 was the MiG-25. But if this interceptor could develop the maximum speed of the 3,2M, it could not withstand it long enough to reach the American intelligence officer. Another serious problem was the fact that the MiG-25 had P-40 (AA-6) missiles with insufficient interception capabilities for such targets.

These shortcomings were overcome in the 1980-ies with the creation of the MiG-31 and the P-33 (AA-9) missiles. These SDs were very similar to AIM-54, they could effectively shoot down not only American strategic bombers, but also targets like the SR-71. These findings are confirmed in Paul Crickmore's book Lockheed Blackbird: Beyond The Secret Missions.

In this book there is evidence from one of the first pilots of the MiG-31, Captain Mikhail Myagkoi, who on his fighter plane took off several times to intercept the SR-71. The pilot says that 31 January 1986, he could knock down the SR-71. “The SR-71 interception scheme was calculated to the last second. MiGs were supposed to take off exactly 16 minutes after the discovery of a scout. The signal to intercept came in 11.00, he was accompanied by a piercing call, then was duplicated on the speakerphone line. All this took place against the backdrop of frantic shouts with excessive excitement, the appearance of the SR-71 was always accompanied by nervousness, ”the pilot recalled. The captain took the SR-71 to escort at an altitude of 52 thousand feet (15900 m) at a distance of 120 km. The SR-71 immediately rose to a height of 65676 feet (20000 m), but, as Soft says, it still remained in the affected area. “If the plane violated the airspace, the missiles would be launched. He had almost no chance of dodging the P-33, ”says the captain. After this incident, "Drozdy" did not approach the borders of the USSR.

There was another case. 3 September 2012, an article appeared by Rakesh Krishman Simha (Rakesh Krishman Simha) on indrus.ru, that 3 June 1986, a similar incident was also recorded. On that day, a group of six MiG-31 sailed to SR-71 over the Barents Sea, where it imitated a group interception of a target with firing rockets from different directions. After this incident, SR-71 stopped flights to the borders of the Soviet Union and several years later were decommissioned. But even if we assume that the MiG-31 was not the main reason for the resignation of spy planes, it must be admitted that the Soviet air force had developed an effective tactic to intercept the SR-71.

Interceptors MiG-31 are still in service. But the future successor to Drozd, designated SR-72, capable of achieving 6M speed, should feel pretty safe at hypersonic speed.
Originator:
http://theaviationist.com/2013/12/11/sr-71-vs-mig-31/
134 comments
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  1. awg75
    awg75 14 December 2013 07: 54
    21
    this beauty still has no competitors !!!
    1. Argon
      Argon 14 December 2013 08: 33
      23
      The main enemy of the MiG-31 turned out to be age, Russia is not able to establish the production of this machine / its analogue, at the present time. Allegations that the T-50 in the future will be able to replace the "suitcase", many experts believe are not well-off. the speed of 6M, it seems, in my opinion, a rather difficult but solvable matter, however, the MGH interceptor missiles will be as follows (from the condition that its speed should be 1-1,5M higher than that of the "target"), what can we say about the MiG-31 as a carrier of such a rocket is not necessary, most likely a heavier carrier is required.
      1. clidon
        clidon 14 December 2013 10: 43
        10
        The main enemy of the Mig-31 is the cost of both production and operation, with a relatively narrow specialization. For the same reasons, the Americans F-14 thundered into a landfill.
        1. smprofi
          smprofi 14 December 2013 14: 20
          +9
          Quote: clidon
          the Americans F-14 thundered into a landfill.

          and the bearded in Iran F-14 Tomcat flies at full height



          in general, the passage in the article
          The only aircraft that had the technical capabilities to intercept it was the American F-14 Tomcat carrier-based fighter with high-speed long-range air combat missiles AIM-54 Phoenix.

          purely theoretical. and if it’s in the right place at the right time
          1. clidon
            clidon 14 December 2013 14: 33
            +6
            and the bearded in Iran F-14 Tomcat flies at full height

            Waiting for the introduction of the 5th generation Iranian fighter. )
          2. mvg
            mvg 15 December 2013 03: 06
            0
            F-14s do not fly with the Persians, there are no spare parts, and the venerable age does not allow them, they were delivered before the revolution. although these are the only carriers of "phoenixes", about 84 of the Persians had such super expensive and beautiful missiles. Mikoyan and Gurevich had record planes such as e-100, e-200, they also flew at 30 km in height, but there was absolutely no way up to Mach 3.5 .. 3.2 maximum, 10 minutes, and the Wed-71 flew for 2500-3000 km \ h. in general, shoot down only with air defense
            1. clidon
              clidon 15 December 2013 10: 11
              +1
              f-14 the Persians no longer fly

              Still fly, but certainly not all.
      2. AVV
        AVV 14 December 2013 21: 48
        +7
        For every tricky bolt, there is a nut !!! No need to exaggerate and downplay the capabilities of the states and Russia !!!
      3. Vasek
        Vasek 14 December 2013 22: 48
        0
        And can a person survive overload acceleration / maneuvering in the conditions of M5 and higher?
        Or is it worth transferring the authority of a UAV?
        1. Sibiriya
          Sibiriya 15 December 2013 01: 56
          0
          Maybe there is equipment, but this has not been necessary for a long time since 2000.
          Hyper - piper is in service with 95. and constantly updated.
          Among other things, there are those. and others
          DO NOT WORK
        2. Aleksey_K
          Aleksey_K 15 December 2013 22: 47
          0
          In space they fly with greater speed. To fly to the Moon, you need to develop the 2 th space velocity 11,2 km / s and the speed of sound (1М) = 331 m / s. So the American astronauts experienced speed - 33,8M. But this is elementary school physics. You surprise me!
          1. Prohor
            Prohor 16 December 2013 13: 08
            0
            A person can withstand the speed of light, here the question is about overloads, i.e. not about speed, but about acceleration. At a speed of 6M, maneuvers will be associated with overloads that are beyond the reach of humans.
      4. Astrey
        Astrey 16 December 2013 00: 42
        0
        Uh ... But after all, the DPRK established its production. Is not it so?
    2. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 14 December 2013 14: 44
      11
      one less today ... what a pity ... well the crew is intact ...
      1. sledgehammer102
        sledgehammer102 14 December 2013 21: 35
        +2
        It seems to me first you need to build a plane that can fly on 6M
  2. kaktus
    kaktus 14 December 2013 07: 54
    14
    First of all - planes! And "girls" from "Oboronservis" and don’t need it for nothing
  3. makarov
    makarov 14 December 2013 08: 16
    +2
    "But the future successor to the Drozd, designated SR-72, capable of reaching 6M, should feel pretty safe at hypersonic speed ..."

    We can do without words. Let's REALLY TRY !!!
    1. ytqnhfk
      ytqnhfk 14 December 2013 12: 35
      +7
      6 M is hard to believe! It seems to me so nonsense that all speeds are very high!
  4. tlauicol
    tlauicol 14 December 2013 08: 23
    +8
    Mig 31 just crashed in Primorye. The pilots are alive
    1. Apollo
      Apollo 14 December 2013 08: 37
      18
      Good morning everybody hi
      Theme video

      1. And Us Rat
        And Us Rat 14 December 2013 12: 02
        +1
        Quote: Apollon
        Good morning everybody hi
        Theme video


        To the heap:

        1. air defense veteran
          air defense veteran 15 December 2013 02: 53
          +1
          So this trough was not only lined with Soviet titanium, but also the fuel tanks flowed mercilessly in the cold state and required refueling immediately after takeoff ??? Not surprisingly, they were removed from duty.
      2. smprofi
        smprofi 14 December 2013 14: 10
        15
        Quote: Apollon
        Theme video

        And a bit more. fresh. and high resolution

        1. Vasek
          Vasek 14 December 2013 23: 31
          +1
          [quote = smprofi] Good morning everyone
          Videos on the topic [/ quote]
          [quote = smprofi]
          [quote = smprofi] To the heap: [/ quote]
          [quote = smprofi] and a little more. fresh. and high resolution
          [/ Quote]

          Champion video! good
          Thank you! good
          I liked both the previous ones!
          (I do not agree only: in the first (MIG-31) - with music, and in the second (SR-71 Blackbird) - with propaganda). laughing
          I also noticed 2 details:
          What is in the MIG-31, what is in the SR-71 Blackbird - the cabins are paired and the controls are duplicated (is it not in case of loss of consciousness from overloads in one of the pilots?);
          To overclock the engines, the SR-71 Blackbird burns almost all of its original fuel, while ours is "heated" by a pair of Urals, albeit specialized ones.
          Enlighten who can?
          1. smprofi
            smprofi 15 December 2013 00: 12
            0
            Quote: Vasek
            Enlighten who can?

            so that you don’t have to press keys for a long time (especially since it was done a long time ago) read:
            http://nnm.me/blogs/smprofi/zona_51_chast_iiif/
            this is the last part exactly on the SR-71 Blackbird, it contains links to the previous ones.
            but in general, the entire "cycle" of articles in another comment I gave to the last part (again: there are links to all the previous ones)
            1. Vasek
              Vasek 15 December 2013 00: 17
              +1
              Quote: smprofi
              so that you don’t have to press keys for a long time (especially since it was done a long time ago) read:
              http://nnm.me/blogs/smprofi/zona_51_chast_iiif/
              this is the last part exactly on the SR-71 Blackbird, it contains links to the previous ones.
              but in general, the entire "cycle" of articles in another comment I gave to the last part (again: there are links to all the previous ones)

              Thank you.
    2. jjj
      jjj 14 December 2013 10: 05
      +4
      Ejection from it does not pass without a trace for health. Let's hope that nothing threatens the peasants
  5. Ihrek
    Ihrek 14 December 2013 08: 55
    22
    Glory to the Soviet designers who created such a technique. Almost 30 years have passed and the MIG-31 is still the best in the world in its class.
    1. Prapor-527
      Prapor-527 14 December 2013 22: 55
      +1
      Good bastard! What can I say ...
  6. 10kAzAk01
    10kAzAk01 14 December 2013 09: 02
    10
    MOSCOW, Dec 14 - RIA News. According to preliminary data, the cause of the crash of the fighter-interceptor of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation MiG-31 in the Primorsky Territory was a technical malfunction of the aircraft, a source in power structures told RIA Novosti.

    RIA Novosti http://ria.ru/incidents/20131214/984058837.html#ixzz2nQFdrT2Z

    Both pilots are alive!
    1. Andrey KZ
      Andrey KZ 14 December 2013 10: 06
      +7
      Both pilots are alive!
      Thank God the pilots are alive, and the "iron" will grow.
      1. alone
        alone 14 December 2013 10: 56
        +9
        Quote: Andrey KZ
        Thank God the pilots are alive, and the "iron" will grow.

        Unfortunately, it is impossible to establish the production of these machines in the current realities. So each broken one is out of the total number of machines that can still fly!

        And as for the pilots, you are right! It’s even very good that the pilots are alive. Human life is most important.
  7. saag
    saag 14 December 2013 09: 08
    +2
    I wonder what the SR-72 is for. If the reconnaissance, that is, the mass of satellites for surveillance and radio reconnaissance, if the percussion is better than a rocket for such purposes as an interceptor, then the pilot will not greet the hypersound
    1. Rus2012
      14 December 2013 09: 37
      +3
      Quote: saag
      I wonder what the SR-72 is for.

      for quasi-orbital flight?
      Those. fly to a height above 100km. walk over enemy territory at heights above 50-60, over the boundary of plasma formation. And to bring down such a device no way, like a spacecraft ...
      1. Vasek
        Vasek 14 December 2013 23: 44
        +1
        Quote: Rus2012
        walk over enemy territory

        Well walked, so what?
        More beautiful than satellites will not photograph; has no weapons ...
        Is that - tease air defense, but our flyers dream break?
        1. Rus2012
          15 December 2013 01: 48
          0
          Quote: Vasek
          has no weapons ...

          it is assumed that it can make a high-precision kinetic impact in one of the "random passes" ...

          Well,
          our flyers dream break

          it is as if by itself.
          The main thing by this moment would be to dot: what we perceive as a threat, what type - by. Those. internationally agree to schedule collisions so that there are no "accidental falls" on defense facilities ...
        2. Aleksey_K
          Aleksey_K 15 December 2013 22: 58
          +2
          The fact is that space photographs are very difficult to interpret. It is very difficult to make out objects on the ground if they do not have visual access on the ground. This requires low-altitude shooting. Moreover, shooting from an airplane gives a pseudo-volume effect. First, the object is visible in front, then from above and then from behind. In conjunction with the notching of various emissions from objects of interest, the most complete picture of the strategic situation in the study area is obtained.
    2. clidon
      clidon 14 December 2013 11: 17
      +1
      And how much is the "mass of satellites"? wink
    3. smprofi
      smprofi 14 December 2013 14: 38
      +2
      Quote: saag
      If intelligence, that is, a mass of satellites for species and radio

      hmm ... what is such confidence based on? on Hollywood movies? To improve education, I recommend that you read:
      http://www.gizmag.com/darpa-disposable-satellite-swarm/21821/
      only in 2012, the well-known DARPA began to implement the SeeMe (Space Enabled Effects for Military Engagements) program, according to the results of which a grouping of satellites that can only after 90 minutes provide information on the area of ​​interest. and then, this is only at work.
      in the 91st, during the Desert Storm, a gringo bit his elbows that sent the SR-71 Blackbird to resign.
      at the moment, with all the "abundance of satellites" and drones, the "old man" U-2 Dragon Lady is still in service, and at work



      photo taken August 12, 2013 (99th Expeditionary Reconnaissance Squadron is part of the 380th Air Expeditionary Wing (380 AEW), based on Al Dhafra Air Base in the UAE).
    4. smprofi
      smprofi 14 December 2013 14: 51
      +3
      Quote: saag
      then the pilot will not be greeted with hypersound

      similarly, there were stories about 100 km / h in a car. then it was claimed with confidence about airplanes and the speed of sound ...
      the first cosmic speed is the minimum speed at which a body moving horizontally above the surface of the planet does not fall on it, but moves in a circular orbit

      for the Earth is V ≈ 7,9 km / s. this is "somewhat" higher than hypersound. and nothing. not one person died at the start.
      Quote: saag
      I wonder what the SR-72 is for.

      by Lockheed Martin SR-72 Darkbird, if interested, read what is planned:
      http://nnm.me/blogs/smprofi/zona-51-chast-v/
      By the way, according to the project, the SR-72 Darkbird should eventually be unmanned. only the prototype is supposed to be manned.
    5. viktor_ui
      viktor_ui 14 December 2013 15: 02
      +1
      saag- "I wonder what the SR-72 is for" ... NASA is taking advantage of one or two machines winked
    6. The comment was deleted.
    7. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 15 December 2013 22: 57
      0
      The fact is that space photographs are very difficult to interpret. It is very difficult to make out objects on the ground if they do not have visual access on the ground. This requires low-altitude shooting. Moreover, shooting from an airplane gives a pseudo-volume effect. First, the object is visible in front, then from above and then from behind. In conjunction with the notching of various emissions from objects of interest, the most complete picture of the strategic situation in the study area is obtained.
    8. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 15 December 2013 23: 04
      0
      Quote: saag
      then the pilot will not be greeted with hypersound


      In space they fly with greater speed. To fly to the Moon, you need to develop the 2 th space velocity 11,2 km / s and the speed of sound (1М) = 331 m / s. So the American astronauts experienced speed - 33,8M. But this is elementary school physics. You surprise me!
  8. zlyden2013
    zlyden2013 14 December 2013 09: 10
    +1
    MIGI 31 BEAUTY Saw them a shaving impression is gorgeous especially when a group
  9. drop
    drop 14 December 2013 09: 15
    30
    The radio engineering systems that were developed with my participation and guidance are being mass-produced and are now in service with this aircraft. This interceptor stopped not only the flights of American scouts to our territory, but also the flights of enemy fighters. I remember how Marshal E. Savitsky asked to give him at least four MiG-31 to intercept these fighters in the Far East. He needed to close the area where they left our territory, and he did it. The Americans then analyzed this situation and flights to our border stopped. The pilots on the MiG-31 are brave, competent professionals. I spent many months at the STCI of the Air Force when testing this handsome man. I remember that part of the flights to test the systems of our research institute was conducted by Bezhevets, we signed flight missions for him.
  10. Rus2012
    14 December 2013 09: 34
    +2
    Confrontation MIG-31 and SR-71 Blackbird in Kamchatka,
    the real story of the MiG-31 pilot about how he flew to intercept and simulate the SR-71 attack.

    http://4avia.ru/content/%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D
    0%BE%D1%8F%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5-%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%B3-31-%D0%B8-sr-71-blackbird-%D0%BD
    %D0%B0-%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BC%D1%87%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BA%D0%B5
  11. VADEL
    VADEL 14 December 2013 09: 38
    +1
    Quote: zlyden2013
    MIGI 31 BEAUTY Saw them a shaving impression is gorgeous especially when a group

    It would be even more impressive if the goal itself was. God forbid.
  12. Landwarrior
    Landwarrior 14 December 2013 09: 59
    +4
    The SR-71 is a serious machine. A serious sword needs a serious shield. In those days, it was somehow not customary to save on such things
  13. Volodya Sibiryak
    Volodya Sibiryak 14 December 2013 10: 55
    24
    Near the house there was a regiment with these handsome men. All who served in the 763 IAP fiery greetings! Perished in the performance of military duty eternal memory!
  14. saag
    saag 14 December 2013 11: 07
    +1
    Quote: Rus2012
    for quasi-orbital flight?
    Those. take off to a height of over 100km.

    This is unlikely, the engine stalls and then does not start, Virgin Galactic wants to ride tourists on a suborbite
    1. Rus2012
      14 December 2013 15: 06
      +2
      Quote: saag
      This is unlikely, the engine stalls and then does not start, Virgin Galactic wants to ride tourists on a suborbite

      racers should throw him to such a height ...
      and the engines will only turn on below 55 ... 50km.
      The launch is announced, then, as it were, the spacecraft leaves the orbit from the first turn ...
      It seems that the conflicts of international agreements allow such things to be done ...

      See needle flight profile
    2. Prapor-527
      Prapor-527 14 December 2013 23: 09
      +1
      With 500. Interception height to 200 km ...
      1. Rus2012
        15 December 2013 01: 57
        0
        Quote: Prapor-527
        With 500. Interception height to 200 km ...

        by itself...
        But we must agree to share the dangers, but we cannot shoot down any object flying in these ranges (i.e., above aerodynamic targets, 30-40km) ...
        Cases may be different, for example, a manned descent spacecraft unexpectedly abnormally enters the atmosphere on our territory. We cannot take it and destroy it ...
  15. Letterksi
    Letterksi 14 December 2013 12: 10
    +6
    Unfortunately, today the MiG-31 crashed in the Primorsky Territory. This is the second one this year. The first is in February in Kazakhstan. That's a lot in such a short time.
    1. marshes
      marshes 14 December 2013 12: 57
      +6
      Quote: LetterKsi
      Unfortunately, today the MiG-31 crashed in the Primorsky Territory. This is the second one this year. The first is in February in Kazakhstan. That's a lot in such a short time.

      And both sides underwent repairs before that: Kazakhstan in Rzhev, Russian in Primorye, aircraft plant 322.
      1. SRC P-15
        SRC P-15 14 December 2013 17: 31
        +3
        Searches began at the enterprise repairing the collapsed MiG-31




        publication time: 11: 55
        last update: 12: 15
        blog print save mail photo





        MiG-31



        The Investigative Committee opened a criminal case into the crash of the MiG-31 fighter in Primorye. Investigative actions have already begun: documents are being seized at a plant near Ussuriysk, where the fighter was being repaired, Interfax reports.

        The case was initiated by the military investigation department of the Investigative Committee of the Russian Federation for the Vladivostok garrison, the article is "violation of the rules of flights or preparation for them."

        The UK confirmed that the plane was flying after repairs. "The investigation found that today at 5 hours 8 minutes Moscow time, the MiG-31, after the completion of repairs at the branch of JSC" 322 Aircraft Repair Plant "located in the Primorsky Territory, went on its first test flight, - quotes the ITAR-TASS message. At 5 hours, the interceptor fighter disappeared from the radar screens. " After some time, the pilots got in touch and reported that the MiG-32 had lost control and crashed about 31 hours 5 minutes. The pilot and navigator ejected. After the search team found them, the pilots were taken to the General Hospital of the Pacific Fleet, nothing threatens their health.

        The plane crashed near the village of Olenevod Nadezhda district of Primorye. They added to the UK that the MiG was detected and, according to preliminary estimates, cannot be restored. There are no victims and destruction on earth.

        The MiG-31 twin supersonic fighter-interceptor is the first Russian fourth-generation combat aircraft. Created 25 years ago, today it is the fastest and highest altitude combat aircraft. MiG-31 is able to intercept and destroy cruise missiles flying at extremely low altitudes.

        More than 500 MiG-31 aircraft of all modifications were built. More than 350 such fighters are now in service with Russian air defense. Several dozen MiG-31s ​​are available in the Kazakh Air Force
      2. The comment was deleted.
  16. 0255
    0255 14 December 2013 12: 15
    0
    Is it true that today MiG-31 from old age can not fly at a speed of more than 1500 km / h?
    1. Rus2012
      14 December 2013 15: 09
      +4
      Quote: 0255
      Is it true that today MiG-31 from old age can not fly at a speed of more than 1500 km / h?

      not because of old age, but because glazing may not stand it. Therefore, they imposed such a restriction. Yes, and there are no suitable goals on the 3 machine yet :))) And so the glazing and binding resource is extended ...
      1. clidon
        clidon 14 December 2013 18: 00
        0
        Is it on modernized ones or those who are waiting for repairs (garbage dumps)?
        1. Rus2012
          14 December 2013 23: 52
          0
          Quote: clidon
          Is it on modernized ones or those who are waiting for repairs (garbage dumps)?

          ... yes, it doesn’t matter on which ones, just when flying at 3, glazing has a small resource, literally before 10 flights. And if you do not exceed 1,5M - the resource is not critical ...
          1. clidon
            clidon 15 December 2013 00: 01
            +1
            Interestingly, later machines have a much longer glass resource. Of course, not up to 3 flights, but obviously more than 2 ... The same Su-27 and Mig-29, which are available for flight control.
  17. bubla5
    bubla5 14 December 2013 12: 37
    0
    At this stage, the 6M speed for manned aircraft such as an airplane is not realistic, and no materials have been invented.
    1. Taoist
      Taoist 14 December 2013 13: 14
      +7
      Really, and there are no problems with materials. But such speeds are possible only at high altitudes, and in principle it is not necessary to talk about the maneuverability of vehicles moving at such speeds. The same Drozd when flying on the cruising 3M had a turning radius of the order of 100km.
      1. Vasek
        Vasek 14 December 2013 23: 56
        0
        Quote: Taoist
        had a turning radius of the order of 100km

        Does the video say 100 miles (= 160 km)?
  18. Taoist
    Taoist 14 December 2013 13: 10
    13
    The very idea of ​​the article is trash. The MiG 31 is an excellent interceptor, but to consider that such a long-range intercept combat complex was developed to counter a dozen "blackbirds" is just an attack of narcissism ...
    And the reason for the cancellation of Drozdov was precisely not MiG - but the overall low efficiency and exorbitant operating costs.
    1. Max otto
      Max otto 14 December 2013 13: 38
      +4
      That's for sure, taking into account the fact that the SR-71 never flew over the USSR, but only along the borders, without entering the airspace of the USSR, the article is generally empty.
      1. Black
        Black 14 December 2013 13: 53
        +4
        Quote: Max Otto
        That’s for sure, given the fact that the SR-71 never flew over the USSR, but only along the borders,


        The author does not claim that Migi caused Sshatami to discontinue production of "thrush", nor does he say that they invaded the airspace of the USSR.
        Normal article, in the mind, in essence.
      2. Rus2012
        14 December 2013 15: 22
        +3
        Quote: Max Otto
        while also reading that, SR-71 never flew over the USSR, but only along the borders, without entering the airspace of the USSR

        ... in general, at the level of unconfirmed rumors, such stories had to be heard from guys from air defense, such as flew in and out.
        BUT, O5 the same rumors or tales ...
        Mb whoever related would give reliable information ...
    2. Rus2012
      14 December 2013 15: 14
      +4
      Quote: Taoist
      And the reason for the cancellation of Drozdov was precisely not MiG - but the overall low efficiency and exorbitant operating costs.

      Say softer, dear colleague:
      - the presence of a worthy antidote to a potential adversary and everything else associated with huge operating costs and low efficiency. Because in other places its use would indeed be unjustified. And it was easily provided by other means, less expensive ...
      laughing
      1. smprofi
        smprofi 14 December 2013 17: 16
        +2
        Quote: Rus2012
        Quote: Taoist
        And the reason for the cancellation of Drozdov was precisely not MiG - but the overall low efficiency and exorbitant operating costs.

        Say softer, dear colleague:
        - the presence of a worthy antidote to a potential adversary and everything else associated with huge operating costs and low efficiency.

        From what I saw on the internet on the SR-71 Blackbird about the reasons for the resignation, there are a lot of speculations, but in reality - this is the decision of Larry D. Welch, the Chief of Staff of the United States Air Force since July 1, 1986 on June 30, 1990. It was said about him that he did not want to hear anything about the plane if it could not carry either bombs or missiles. Larry was also "pleased" by the cost of one SR-71 flight: a squadron of fighters could fly with this money for almost a month.
        and the need for SR-71 gringos was very well remembered during the Desert Storm, but the train left.
        Quote: Rus2012
        Because in other places its use would indeed be unjustified.

        Yes? those. do you think the SR-71 Blackbird flew only across the borders of the Union? North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Nicaragua and Libya, and the same Falklands - were these not goals?
        Quote: Rus2012
        And it was easily provided by other means, less expensive

        hmmm ... can you find out which ones? satellites? the efficiency of receiving a "picture" from a satellite can be calculated in days. and not alone. in the case of the SR-71 Blackbird, a few hours. "time is money" is for business, for the military it will most likely be "time is blood". and sometimes very large.
        1. Rus2012
          14 December 2013 18: 07
          +2
          Quote: smprofi
          hmm ... can I find out which ones?

          U2, UAV, RC, RB, RF ...
          1. smprofi
            smprofi 14 December 2013 19: 11
            0
            U-2 Dragon Lady - yes, still in service, but the SR-71 Blackbird was made after. and still did.
            So, an analysis by Skunk Works engineers showed that the best chance of not getting hit will have a super-high and ultra-fast aircraft.

            that's why the SR-71 Blackbird was born
            Quote: Rus2012
            RC, RB, RF ...

            neither provide flight range, flight safety, nor the quality of reconnaissance
            A significant portion of the reconnaissance equipment used was specifically designed for the SR-71. The composition of reconnaissance equipment varies depending on the task. Reconnaissance equipment consists of aerial cameras, side-view radars and infrared equipment. Aerial cameras can be located in the nose instrument compartment: panoramic (lens focal length - 610 mm), the so-called Operational Objective Cameras (OCCs), developed by Hycon, or telephoto for lateral perspective shooting, Technical Objective Cameras (TEOCs) with the focal length of the lens - from 9144 to 12192 mm (manufactured by Itek Corporation), later TEOCs were replaced with a CAI 16764 mm focal length camera. It was noted that from a height of 24 km in 1 hour of flight, on-board equipment allows reconnaissance of an area of ​​155 (260) thousand km². For radar surface reconnaissance, aperture-controlled radars (Advanced Synthetic Aperture Radar, ASARS I) manufactured by Goodyear or Loral were used. Receiving sensors that provide registration of ASARS reflected signals, as well as emitted by various sources on the ground, are associated with electronic warfare equipment (Defensive Electronic Systems, DEF), which is constantly being improved. The DEF A2C digital system is currently in use.

            UAVs appeared relatively recently. and the thing, in principle, is not bad, but anyway: you can’t put serious equipment there. although everything does not stand still.
            1. Vasek
              Vasek 15 December 2013 00: 03
              0
              Quote: smprofi
              U-2 Dragon Lady - yes, still in service, but the SR-71 Blackbird was made after. and still did.
              So, an analysis conducted by Skunk Works engineers showed that the super-high and ultra-fast aircraft would have the best chance of not being shot down.

              Everything is very reminiscent of the current hysteria with hypersound.
              Is the game worth the candle, or maybe asymmetries look for an answer?
            2. Landwarrior
              Landwarrior 16 December 2013 23: 04
              0
              Greetings comrade! hi I knew that after your articles in the topic about "Blackbird" you will not be able to unsubscribe drinks good
  19. saag
    saag 14 December 2013 13: 50
    0
    Quote: Taoist
    The MiG 31 is an excellent interceptor, but to consider that such a long-range intercept combat system was developed to counter a dozen "blackbirds" is just an attack of narcissism.

    And why was such a high-altitude, heavy and high-speed machine still being developed? By the way, was it not designed for the SR-25 Mig-71?
    1. Black
      Black 14 December 2013 14: 01
      +2
      Quote: saag
      And why was such a high-rise, heavy and high-speed machine still being developed?

      Oddly enough, for the interception of cruise missiles, including those going at ultra-low altitude.
    2. clidon
      clidon 14 December 2013 14: 13
      +7
      The MiG-25 was developed primarily to intercept the American supersonic bombers B-70 Valkyrie and B-58 Hustler. But the first was not accepted into service, and the second, by the beginning of production of the Mig-25, had already been removed from service. Cruise missiles began to come to the fore, as well as bombers that could perform flights at ultra-low altitudes. The MiG-25 was not ready for such threats, and on its basis they began to develop the MiG-31 variant.
    3. Taoist
      Taoist 15 December 2013 00: 08
      +1
      Well, first of all, to cover the northern border with a "continuous air defense field". Exactly for the same reason the Tu 128 was developed at one time. The MiG is primarily not a record speed, but the possibility of long-term patrolling as part of a group and the possibility of long-range interception of any air and aeroballistic targets without using ground guidance stations.
  20. Black
    Black 14 December 2013 14: 08
    +5
    For the first 10 years (note, these years of "setting" on the wing, revision, fine-tuning) there was not a single loss. the first board crashed in 1989 .... 2013 is the second loss in a year ...
    1. 123dv
      123dv 14 December 2013 15: 20
      +3
      Were sucks. Upgrading is not troubleshooting. They began to fly more often, here the jambs accumulated during the time and climbed. Otherwise it can not be. Absolutely natural losses. I think that as the hours fly, everything will return to normal.
  21. saag
    saag 14 December 2013 14: 09
    0
    Quote: Chen
    Oddly enough, for the interception of cruise missiles, including those going at ultra-low altitude.

    This is really strange and even very
  22. propolsky
    propolsky 14 December 2013 14: 33
    16
    The MiG-25 is an amazing aircraft, but expensive to manufacture and operate, the MiG-31 is redesigned to a very high level, and in electronics another aircraft, with completely different tasks, chasing thrushes is like that, from boredom to keep warm .. .
    1. aviator65
      aviator65 14 December 2013 23: 10
      +3
      "MiG-25 - the aircraft is amazing, but expensive in production and operation"
      However, this did not stop to build it in the amount of more than 1000 pieces. all modifications. Against the one-piece SR-71s, we could raise the "25" shelves. Maybe it was this circumstance that puzzled the Americans?
      1. clidon
        clidon 14 December 2013 23: 14
        -6
        However, this did not prevent to build it in an amount of more than 1000 pieces. all modifications.

        And then the economy of the USSR, could not stand it and cracked ... Do you want to raise the military budget? Who will take the money from? Health again?
        1. 11111mail.ru
          11111mail.ru 15 December 2013 08: 39
          +3
          Quote: clidon
          Would you like to raise the military budget? Who will take the money from? Health again?

          We won’t touch the doctors for the wallet, they are be-be-be-her-e-one! It’s easy to explain to the oligarchs that for them personally (exclusive!) There is a VIP camera (of course prison!) And that it’s better to voluntarily ..., you know!
          1. clidon
            clidon 15 December 2013 09: 11
            +1
            Well, in general, you are proposing a small requisition revolution, a change of order? But this is not included with the heir to the MiG-31. You have to work with what you have. That is, with the existing legislation and the budget, which are so "non-rubber".
            1. 11111mail.ru
              11111mail.ru 15 December 2013 15: 17
              +2
              Quote: clidon
              You have to work with what you have. That is, with the existing legislation and the budget, which are so "non-rubber".

              So I say: "There is no other way for us ...". Let's call them "people". These creatures keep stolen in foreign "piggy banks", on "", which they think they do not care about us. It's just that their amerskie friends gently announced to them the tasks of maintaining order in the territory to which they were put as "overseers." As M.N. Zadornov said in a well-known program: EVERYTHING AS IN THE ZONE ... With THIS government, EREF had no prospects, and never will. And nothing depends on my or your desire by definition!
              1. clidon
                clidon 15 December 2013 16: 37
                +1
                I will not discuss political conspiracy theories, enemy mercenaries, and so on, "Fedorovshchina". The fact is, we have a budget and choices that are generally easy to make.
  23. understudy
    understudy 14 December 2013 17: 41
    0
    Quote: lonely
    Unfortunately, to establish the production of these machines in the current realities is impossible.


    It is bitter and painful to realize the truth of these words. How so? The leaders draw fantastic perspectives, and we are sliding down step by step. "From simple to complex!" ... for a fucking cloud of years, a formula for harmonious upbringing of a personality was derived. The same is with technology ... but we, under the enthusiastic applause of the inhabitants, are "fighting" with offshore companies. In words ... and nichrome in deeds.
    You know, I recommend reading Oleg Divov's "Culling" - the action is taking place today, through tough measures, order has been restored in the country over several years. At the forefront of the policy was the Social Security Agency, which literally eradicated "enemies of the people". This definition included chelas from oligarchs to gopots. A kind of "White Arrow", "Shield", but with full government support.
    We will not succeed as long as the focus of the activities of state institutions is ... chatter about a "bright future."
    By the way, they noticed ... in the President’s appeal to the FS, the issue of combating corruption was simply conceived.
    1. clidon
      clidon 14 December 2013 18: 02
      -3
      Mig-31 is much more primitive than what goes under the T-50 index. Therefore, the production of these machines (of this class, because the Mig-31 itself is outdated) makes it difficult to establish, rather, cost savings.
      1. aviator65
        aviator65 14 December 2013 19: 37
        +6
        It doesn't seem to you that the T-50 is already turning into a kind of icon for which we simply have to pray. However, the facts are such that "what goes under the T-50 index", no matter how successfully its tests pass (according to official information, of course), is still an experimental apparatus, on which to work and work. And no matter how outstanding it is as a result, it will not replace everyone and everything. The MiG-31 has been in service for a quarter of a century. It still remains the unrivaled car in its class. Let him be a "narrow specialist", but he is a highly qualified specialist. And no station wagon can fully replace it. And the cost savings, for the sake of which some want to write off these interceptors in retirement, is more like "patching up a trishka caftan." As we have more than once happened in modern history, first we will destroy, and then it turns out that there is nothing better to replace, nothing at all.
        1. clidon
          clidon 14 December 2013 20: 19
          -5
          The 31st is over 30 years old. He remains so in his class for only one reason - in his class he is generally the only one. There was also an F-14 with similar tasks, but the Americans wrote them off. The trouble with the Mig-31 is not only that it is already quite substantially outdated, but also that it is expensive to operate. Therefore, they will be kept in service, reducing the number and modifying the resource, but no one will especially stick to this car. The time of narrow specialists has passed.
          1. aviator65
            aviator65 14 December 2013 22: 48
            +2
            It is as outdated as the Tu-95, for example. And they will be older.
            1. clidon
              clidon 14 December 2013 22: 59
              -5
              They are his peers, if that ... Well, there is a small difference in the size of the abyss between the tasks of the "flying platform for launching the CD" and the task of "conducting modern air combat".
              Or do you think that, like 30 years ago, it is enough for him to intercept several tomahawks and calmly fly home with a sense of accomplishment?
              1. aviator65
                aviator65 14 December 2013 23: 26
                +2
                Quote: clidon
                They are his peers if that ..

                Yah? One was developed in the early 50s, and the second in the second half of the 70s.
                Quote: clidon
                Well, as it were, between the tasks of the "flying platform for launching the CD" and the task of "conducting a modern air battle" there is a small difference in the size of the abyss.

                To conduct an air battle with cruise missiles or with a "flying platform for launching a cruise missile" at the long range of interception, or with the same SR-71?
                Quote: clidon
                Or do you think that, like 30 years ago, it is enough for him to intercept several tomahawks and calmly fly home with a sense of accomplishment?

                And, what, the T-50 will have an inexhaustible ammunition and bring down enemies like a Maxim machine gun with an endless belt?
                1. clidon
                  clidon 14 December 2013 23: 58
                  -1
                  Yah? One was developed in the early 50s, and the second in the second half of the 70s.

                  No, what is now in service, namely the Tu-95MS, was developed just in the same years as the Mig-31, and it was produced in general at the same time.

                  To conduct an air battle with cruise missiles or with a "flying platform for launching a cruise missile" at the long range of interception, or with the same SR-71?

                  Cross out the SR-71 - it has long been removed from service. Stupid Americans did not understand that the "narrow expensive pro" is a piece of equipment they need.
                  That is, I guessed the same thing as 30 years ago with the same opponents. Despite the fact that the conditions have long changed.

                  And, what, the T-50 will have an inexhaustible ammunition and bring down enemies like a Maxim machine gun with an endless belt?

                  Do not be naughty. T-50 is a modern machine with the corresponding capabilities.
                  1. aviator65
                    aviator65 15 December 2013 00: 27
                    +2
                    Quote: clidon
                    Do not be naughty. T-50 is a modern machine with the corresponding capabilities.

                    That is, "appropriate capabilities" - do they imply an endless ammunition reserve? Or, having failed several targets and left without missiles and shells, he will not fly home with a sense of accomplishment? Maybe, taking advantage of super-maneuverability, he will go for a ram?
                    1. clidon
                      clidon 15 December 2013 09: 00
                      -1
                      The capabilities of the T-50 imply universality (we even digress from the fact that it is the 5th, and the Mig-31 is the 4th generation). Just the T-50 will be able to intercept the KR and shoot down a strike aircraft and engage in battle with an enemy fighter and deliver a bombing strike in the depths of the enemy’s territory. At the same time, possessing, of course, the best VPH.
                      Mig-31 will smoke aside and wait for the arrival of the Kyrgyz Republic or the bombers.
                  2. 11111mail.ru
                    11111mail.ru 15 December 2013 09: 08
                    +4
                    Quote: clidon
                    Do not be naughty. T-50 is a modern machine with the corresponding capabilities.

                    Dear, between desires and their fulfillment, as a rule, there is a huge distance. Three questions for you, I am not asking for an answer personally, but think about it: 1. Is the engine for the future aircraft developed on the basis of the T-50 already in series production? So far, the "prototype" does not fly on "its" engines.
                    2. Is the armament complex for the future fighter also ready for installation on a glider?
                    3.Without an engine and an armament complex, will a prototype be allowed to type tests (confirmation of conformity to TIPU of an aircraft)
                    I am almost ready to believe you that the T-50 is better than the MiG-31, however CONCLUSIONS: The MiG-31 is real and flies; even the CIA does not know when combat units will receive a "plane based on the T-50".
                    1. clidon
                      clidon 15 December 2013 09: 14
                      +1
                      What did I write about the fact that the MiG-31 urgently needs to be removed from service, because the T-50 is already on the conveyor?
                      1. 11111mail.ru
                        11111mail.ru 15 December 2013 15: 29
                        +2
                        Quote: clidon
                        I wrote that the MiG-31 urgently needs to be removed from service

                        I do not observe commas, even wearing glasses (unfortunately +2,5).
                        The assigned resource will work out, there will be no extension of operation, they will put it on the storage base for 5 years, then they will drag it away to spare parts for still flying copies (but with the remainder of the resource, for some reason) that will not be planned to land (like they were working? BUT NOT READY! )
                        Quote: clidon
                        because the T-50 is already on the conveyor?

                        Did I tell you this? Go to the top and review my THREE questions again!
                        Laziness? Well, so I repeat to you:
                        1. Is the engine for the future aircraft developed on the basis of the T-50 already mass-produced? So far, the "prototype" does not fly on "its" engines.
                        2. Is the armament complex for the future fighter also ready for installation on a glider?
                        3.Without an engine and an armament complex, will a prototype be allowed to type tests (confirmation of conformity to TIPU of an aircraft)
                        Your move, time has run!
          2. aviator65
            aviator65 14 December 2013 22: 59
            +1
            "it is expensive to operate"
            Well, the T-50, of course, will be cheaper. Yes, and Su-30 / -35, come on, are also inexpensive?
            By this logic, we would now have some MiG-21P would be just right.
            1. clidon
              clidon 14 December 2013 23: 12
              -2
              The T-50 is the fifth generation, it is an aircraft of air superiority and, in general, the hope and support of the Air Force in the relatively distant future. As well as the Su-30/35 in the near future. Without them, we can say that Russia has no future for the modern air force.
              The MiG-31 is a highly specialized vehicle - an interceptor of CD and bombers. "Moments" are already few, and there will be even fewer. Not new and at least as expensive to operate.
              If the Air Force has to choose between a modern station wagon and not a new "narrow specialist", you shouldn't even think about what they will choose. However, they have already chosen.
              1. aviator65
                aviator65 14 December 2013 23: 58
                +4
                Quote: clidon
                If the Air Force has to choose between a modern station wagon and not a new "narrow specialist", you shouldn't even think about what they will choose. However, they have already chosen.

                How such "elections" are being held in our country is a separate topic. In fact, what should they choose from? Can the infantry also be offered to choose between a machine gun, a pistol or a grenade launcher?

                Quote: clidon
                The T-50 is the fifth generation, it is an aircraft of air superiority and, in general, the hope and support of the Air Force in the relatively distant future.

                Well, for sure, an icon!
                In the USSR, it was generally not accepted to speak out loud about projects of this scale. Simply, "once" the MiG-25, MiG-29 or Su-27 appeared and really proved that they are really the best and outstanding. It was then that the well-deserved fame came to them. And now it's all about marketing. There is still no product, but advertising is already in full swing, and the packaging is beautiful.
                1. clidon
                  clidon 15 December 2013 00: 09
                  -1
                  about the essence, what should they choose from? Can the infantry also offer to choose between a machine gun, a pistol or a grenade launcher?

                  That is, the entire world infantry, the poor people are fighting with only machine guns, but we still have grenade launchers. So choose an automaton.

                  Well, for sure, an icon!

                  This is the only main project on which everything will be held on until (possibly) they create a more massive single-engine machine. Using modern technology from the same T-50.

                  In the USSR, it was generally not customary to talk about projects of this magnitude aloud

                  Under the USSR, you would not have discussed it here, most likely. Postcards with a muddy image of the Mig-21 people were considered sufficient for pride in their Air Force.
                  But the USSR rested in the Bose ... Together with the money "Na! It's not a pity!" for the military-industrial complex. Therefore, "one day, suddenly" will be gone. And out of nowhere another remarkable fifth generation fighter will not appear.
                  The T-50 will not work and our Air Force will look poor and pale. This would not be desirable, so everyone hopes that the PAK FA project will succeed.
                  1. aviator65
                    aviator65 15 December 2013 00: 54
                    +3
                    Quote: clidon
                    That is, the entire world infantry, the poor people are fighting with only machine guns, but we still have grenade launchers. So choose an automaton.

                    They did not catch the point. For each type of weapon its own tasks are defined. Therefore, the infantry are fighting not only machine guns. Also, a fighter for gaining superiority in the air cannot be an alternative to a heavy interceptor with a powerful radar, in fact, a flying air defense system.
                    Quote: clidon
                    This is the only main project on which everything will be held on until (possibly) they create a more massive single-engine machine. Using modern technology from the same T-50.

                    The most frightening word here is "one". And if it doesn't work out? Or not quite as intended? You don't have to go far. Suffice it to recall how the Su-27 was born. If not in the know, then the actually finished car had to be completely redesigned. But that was back in the Soviet Union, when "Oh! Don't mind!" for the military-industrial complex. What will happen now? Now we even have to develop fighters of different classes (light and heavy) on a first come, first served basis.
                    1. clidon
                      clidon 15 December 2013 08: 49
                      0
                      aviator65
                      The whole world is forced to live without heavy interceptors (and many generally with one fighter, or light or "medium"), but only we are rich enough to continue to produce machines of different classes? Alas, this is not the case. For a long time not so. The Russian Air Force, even in size (which, in my opinion, is hardly a secret to anyone, hardly really exceeds a thousand cars) will not pull the required number of cars. You have to sacrifice something.

                      The most frightening word here is "one". And if it doesn't work out?

                      So pray for it to work out. Since the icon. Are there any alternatives?

                      Now we are even forced to develop fighters of different classes (light and heavy) in the order of a living line.

                      You will be surprised, but now this is the norm in the world. Even the wealthy USA, which throws money on weapons almost more than anyone else in the world combined, are forced to make fifth-generation cars "in turn" and pray for it to work.
                      1. aviator65
                        aviator65 15 December 2013 10: 48
                        0
                        Quote: clidon
                        The Russian Air Force, even in numbers (which, in my opinion, is hardly a secret to anyone, actually exceeds a thousand vehicles) will not pull the required number of vehicles. Something will have to be sacrificed.

                        Dear clidon! In this situation, God forbid, if something terrible happens, you will have to sacrifice our people and our territory.
                        Quote: clidon
                        So pray for it to work out. Since the icon. Are there any alternatives?

                        That's for sure! Then we can only pray.
                        As for the "rich USA", it is worth recalling that both the Raptor and the F-35 appeared as a result of a competition, and their appearance was successfully insured by a large fleet of 4+ fighters.
                        The situation in our country was accurately described by the "legendary" cat Matroskin: "... We have the means. We don't have enough intelligence ..."
                      2. clidon
                        clidon 15 December 2013 12: 10
                        0
                        aviator65
                        In this situation, God forbid, if something terrible happens, you will have to sacrifice our people and our territory.

                        There is another option to poke everything in the nose, with our nuclear weapons, which in general has worked for less than the past 20 years.

                        As for the "rich USA", it is worth recalling that both the Raptor and the F-35 appeared as a result of a competition, and their appearance was successfully insured by a large fleet of 4+ fighters.

                        Of course, I can say that our T-50 is not the first "search" on the 5th generation topic - at first the MiG-1.42 (44) and C-37 were rejected. But in general, there is no time for fat here, we just do not have so many living fighter design bureaus.
                        Well, for now there is an option with the Su-35, which can still be upgraded to some kind of silent mod.
                      3. aviator65
                        aviator65 15 December 2013 15: 41
                        +2
                        Quote: clidon
                        Of course, I can say that our T-50 is not the first "search" on the 5th generation topic - at first the MiG-1.42 (44) and C-37 were rejected. But in general, there is no time for fat here, we just do not have so many living fighter design bureaus.

                        You can safely address such statements to "specialists" familiar with aviation from the game AIR COMBAT and the like. This is how the Mikoyan "1.42 (44)" and the Sukhovsky S-37, aka C-47, aka "golden eagle" were rejected? As for the first, in 92 the MFI program (aka "I-90") was stupidly closed, like a number of other promising developments of the Mikoyan Design Bureau. At the same time, they did not even let the finished flight specimen, already transported to Zhukovsky, be lifted into the air. For it was said: "There are no more enemies. Enough to arm. Let's give the money to teachers, doctors and other indigent." (They are now fattening! Well, doctors, that is ...) The fact is that I was lucky to have time to work with this car and her biography, I know very well.
                        On the second. This one is from another opera. A purely experimental machine designed to refine the layout and technology. Moreover, in fact, on the initiative of the OKB. In a successful scenario, in the future it was considered as a possible replacement for the deck Su-33. But, something did not work out.
                        And then the UAC is formed, headed by Pogasyan, and the PAK FA program starts right there. Here we have such a contest.
                        As for the fighter design bureaus, we had only 3 of them: MiG, Su and Yak. Moreover, the latter was rather multidisciplinary.
                      4. clidon
                        clidon 15 December 2013 16: 35
                        0
                        This is all the lyrics. The military looked at one and the other car, and when they decided to implement the 5th generation, they actually chose the American concept. How they made the decision, on what basis there were a lot of conversations, there was only one fact - neither machine was taken into account.
                        Mig, called heavyweight (which is easy to believe looking at its size), S-37 - evil tongues generally nicknamed Pogosyan’s personal whim.
                        However, this all has little to do with the essence of our discussion - there is one fact - now there are practically one living KB. And it makes a T-50.

                        then we had them and there were only 3: MiG, Su and Yak.

                        Well then, "Tu" is also necessary here. )
                      5. aviator65
                        aviator65 15 December 2013 17: 07
                        0
                        Well, you know better. hi
                    2. 11111mail.ru
                      11111mail.ru 15 December 2013 21: 00
                      0
                      I will not throw + 100%, but I completely agree with you 99,99%. Those who have not been to a serial plant, have not communicated with military representatives, do not know, to start a conversation, GOST B15.307 should be studied. Anyone who is not familiar with guests with the letter B, before the name, a complete "zero", not "zero, but simply" zero "and he will never be a full-fledged" zero "! Before" entering "the topic, you must at least to read the fundamental documents, not even STUDY, but simply READ.
                      Quote: aviator65
                      And then the KLA is formed, headed by Pogasyan

                      I'm sorry, I'm such a bore! It seems that the "roofer" of the MIG company should be called Pogosyan ...
                    3. aviator65
                      aviator65 15 December 2013 21: 10
                      +1
                      Quote: 11111mail.ru
                      It seems that the "roofer" of the MIG company should be called Pogosyan ...

                      I apologize for a typo. Although what a difference! Well, it’s so in our opinion: strangle competitors, and then declare that there is no more choice. good
                    4. clidon
                      clidon 15 December 2013 21: 51
                      0
                      Excuse me, I'll intervene here, about "strangled". And who prevented Mig from selling (modernizing) its aircraft in the hundreds in the 90s, as Sukhi did? Poghosyan? Did he get involved in squabbles with Russian Avionics?
                    5. aviator65
                      aviator65 15 December 2013 22: 15
                      0
                      Excuse me, but from which company was the new head of the OKB im. Mikoyan? And what tasks were assigned to the Design Bureau by this head after 92, do you know? And what happened to serial production, with the same "Banner of Labor", too, did not hear?
                      Sold hundreds of "dryers" in the 90s, you say? Oh well.
                    6. clidon
                      clidon 15 December 2013 22: 27
                      0
                      The fact that there is a special love between Sukhoi and MiG ("Ka" and "Mi") I have heard, but about the fact that it was "dry" that led to the crisis of the campaign, which (in my opinion) has not stopped since the beginning of the 90s and to this day, I hear it for the first time.
                      I've heard a lot about the "Banner of Labor" (in general, any production in Moscow, one way or another of the Khan).
                      Please explain to me why the Su-27/30 was sold abroad, but the MiG-29 was not. This is despite the fact that Mig, our most common fighter brand.
                    7. aviator65
                      aviator65 15 December 2013 22: 38
                      0
                      And you ask this question to the one who is engaged in sales.
                    8. clidon
                      clidon 15 December 2013 23: 58
                      0
                      Well, I get a bummer. (The cars are wonderful, the projects are wonderful, and those who could not sell and Poghosyan are to blame.
                    9. aviator65
                      aviator65 16 December 2013 10: 17
                      0
                      Well, what you really say!
                      Mr. Poghosyan is our hope and support. How can he be guilty ?! This is only the fault of the creators of such "sludge" as the MiG-25, MiG-29, MiG-31. The sellers turned out to be bad. They all, somehow, tried to create new planes, but they had to deal with trade. They are naive. They believed that fighters were needed first of all for the defense of their country, and only then for the market.
                      What now to talk about it! We will pray on the T-50 and Mr. Poghosyan. They will definitely provide us with a bright future. hi
                    10. clidon
                      clidon 16 December 2013 14: 11
                      0
                      Yes, that's the difference. If Poghosyan realized that it was necessary not only to be able to make planes ("which will take it anyway"), but also to sell them, then at the "Miga" they sat and waited ... What was just waiting for this question. Return of the USSR? Money flow from heaven? And not to say that
                      Now the question remains, what will happen next with "Mig".
  24. Taoist
    Taoist 15 December 2013 12: 04
    +2
    You are missing out on the fact that our country is perhaps the only one in the world that has such a size northern air border that it is almost impossible (or insanely expensive) to cover with conventional "object" air defense. So for us, the presence of heavy long-range interceptors is perhaps not a luxury but a necessity determined by the security of the northern direction.
  25. clidon
    clidon 15 December 2013 12: 44
    -1
    And you miss the fact that a small number of heavy interceptors will not be able to cover it either. Times when such cars were stamped by hundreds have sunk into oblivion.
  • not main
    not main 15 December 2013 02: 08
    +1
    Now everyone has become specialists in all fields! "We all learned anything, whatever!" And the future belongs to narrow specialists! For it is impossible to grasp the immensity!
    1. clidon
      clidon 15 December 2013 08: 52
      0
      With limited financial capabilities, you, with a staff of 3 people, will not hire a separate milling machine operator, individual turner, locksmith, manager, accountant, cleaner, storekeeper, painter, safety inspector and director. Despite the fact that they are in themselves excellent narrow specialists.
      1. jagdpanzer
        jagdpanzer 15 December 2013 17: 51
        +3
        I wildly apologize, but a talented cleaning lady probably cannot, in my opinion, be a talented accountant and a locksmith at the same time. So whatever one may say, but you have to have a full staff, otherwise it will turn out what we get and, more specifically, a mess!
        1. clidon
          clidon 15 December 2013 20: 17
          0
          No, you cannot expand the staff, by definition, you have no money for it ... Alas, it will not work. Or stay without heating for the winter, materials.
          Therefore, you will ask a locksmith at the same time to wash the premises, and to look after the manager for the warehouse, etc.
          All this is reality, not fiction with endless money.
          1. aviator65
            aviator65 15 December 2013 21: 54
            +1
            Quote: clidon
            Therefore, you will ask a locksmith at the same time to wash the premises, and to look after the manager for the warehouse, etc.
            All this is reality, not fiction with endless money.

            And work for three, five, they agree for one salary? The reality is likely to be such that it is unlikely to save significantly. Or you will work one for all.
            1. clidon
              clidon 15 December 2013 22: 07
              0
              You will pay more for one person for combining three specialties or three separate specialists.
              The reality is that everyone saves it that way if you look at the business. It was in Soviet times that the artist was kept at the factory so that he also did the decoration. )
              1. aviator65
                aviator65 15 December 2013 22: 25
                0
                This is good for a business of "serious company will rent a hole punch" scale. In a normal leader, everyone does their own thing.
                However, again, you know better. hi
              2. clidon
                clidon 15 December 2013 22: 29
                0
                Well, we will not bring cars to people "one-to-one.") Otherwise, we can agree that dozens of types of aircraft should be put into service. "You can't live otherwise."
  • 11111mail.ru
    11111mail.ru 15 December 2013 09: 24
    0
    You are right, dear, in the part concerning. Bearing in mind the narrow specialization of aircraft, and indeed military equipment, here a specially "sharpened" apparatus at the expense of ONCE will "make" a station wagon. But, in the part concerning the "narrow" specialist, the classic immediately comes out, it just sticks out:
    "A specialist is like a gumboil: its completeness is one-sided."
    101th aphorism from the collection of thoughts and aphorisms “Fruits of Meditation” (1854) by Kozma Prutkov.
    We all sin with one-sidedness and categoricalness. I try not to sin with common truths like "learn history", "learn materiel." It was nice to talk to!
    1. clidon
      clidon 15 December 2013 09: 39
      0
      Reread slowly again what I wrote above. In addition, technology does not stand still, before the crews of aircraft consisted of 6-12 people, and now from 2, although they fly further and carry more.
  • 11111mail.ru
    11111mail.ru 15 December 2013 08: 46
    +2
    Quote: clidon
    Mig-31 is much more primitive than what goes under the T-50 index. Therefore, the production of these machines (of this class, because the Mig-31 itself is outdated) makes it difficult to establish, rather, cost savings.

    Dear, read to increase the level of posing the question at least about the difference between the production of a product with the letter "O" and the SERIES of the same product, but without the specified letter. I have no doubt that you will learn a lot of what was hidden before you! I wish you success!
    1. clidon
      clidon 15 December 2013 09: 40
      0
      Let's get to the root of the question - are you saying that the fifth generation is "the same" or "simpler" than the MiG-31?
      1. 11111mail.ru
        11111mail.ru 15 December 2013 21: 37
        +1
        Incorrect formulation of the question. Do not get involved in useless verbiage. God is God, and Caesar is Caesar! In the Gospel of Matthew (chap. 5, art. 37), Jesus tells his hearers about the uselessness of oaths and deity: “But let your word be: yes, yes, no, no; but I read over it, that of the evil one. "
        I just declare, for the unbeliever Thomas, that the production of the MiG-31 by the ErEfii industry at this stage is still possible. able to restore (again, subject to the restoration of cooperation ties). And to put at least 30-40 "outdated" MiG-31 machines back into combat units, then excuse me ... here even the GENIUS of GDP and LADIES do not rule! It's too late, my friend, to drink "Borjomi" when the kidneys have fallen off!
        No, so far the Russian Federation has a 5th generation aircraft. There is groundwork for the airframe, for the engines, and that's all ... Not ready for the series, neither in terms of technological groundwork, nor funding ... Give your brotherly greetings to the CIA and pass them on to the terrible military secret set out in the previous sentence! You can send me 100 barrels of jam, 10 thousand cases of cookies and a thousand servings of ice cream! It is true with the signed: bad boy and also say hello to the descendants of AT Gaidar, I love to kick the memory of this "writer".
        1. clidon
          clidon 15 December 2013 22: 10
          0
          No, so far the Russian Federation has a 5th generation aircraft. There is a backlog on the glider, on the engines, and that’s all ..

          There are already five flying prototypes. About 5 years ago, I was assured by oath that "no fifth generation can lift the RF into the air. Everything is gone."
          However, the Su-35 is already in the series, and the T-50 is on the wing so that they don’t speak there. Time will tell.
  • Rus2012
    14 December 2013 18: 26
    +1
    By the way, who refers to the mythical Aurora SR-91?
    Was / didn’t?
    1. 0255
      0255 14 December 2013 20: 53
      +2
      Quote: Rus2012
      By the way, who refers to the mythical Aurora SR-91?
      Was / didn’t?

      Most likely, the rumors about such a plane were spread by the Americans themselves. And all sorts of journalists began to draw his fuzzy photo-toads:

      with such music, I am ready to believe in the existence of this aircraft laughing
      In the late eighties, the Northrop B-2 bomber project bore the name "Aurora".
      By the way, they wrote on VO that the Chinese are developing a 6-7 flywheel reconnaissance bomber. Will he be copied from these "photos"? laughing
  • ssss157
    ssss157 14 December 2013 19: 20
    +4
    I do not agree with the article completely. You look at the dates of the first flights.

    SR-71 First Flight December 22, 1964 Start of operation 1966
    MIG-31 First flight September 16, 1975 Start of operation May 6, 1981


    How the non-existent MIG-31 prevented the United States from conducting reconnaissance flights over the USSR for 11 years.

    My answer is: NO. SR-71 did not violate our borders because it was afraid of the MIG-25 and its missiles could carry 4 long-range hyper sonic missiles (M> 5) of the type (R-40T; R-40TD; R-40R; R-40RD maximum launch range on a high-altitude target on a collision course - 35-60 km)

    For reference, the MIG-25 first flight March 6, 1964 Start of operation 1970

    Data taken from wiki
    1. 123dv
      123dv 14 December 2013 19: 53
      -3
      Quote: ssss157
      SR-71 didn’t violate our borders because he was afraid
      lol
      Well, finally!
      ON RU SHAL! Many times with pleasure, and before 81 years and after. The capitalists are not wasting money; they have bought equipment, and this is how it works. I didn’t need it, so it sucks, or to landfill.
      1. typhoon7
        typhoon7 14 December 2013 22: 07
        +5
        I did not need it because of our air defense and interceptors. If he flew, then practically by the edge of the wing and left, because they, too, are not kamikazes. At the request of the US military, Drozd had a maximum speed of about 4700 km / h, but in reality pilots were advised not to exceed 3400 km / h. He also had a very big problem (affecting his resignation) of takeoff and landing, especially landing. Most of the accidents with this aircraft occurred precisely for this reason. When the pilot landed the car, he waited a certain time for it to cool down and only then left it. The car was very expensive and very expensive to operate. Pilots on it flew extra class, you can say a doctor of science. He was therefore written off because he could be intercepted over the territory of the USSR and we could get the technology. Therefore, with the exception of several samples, all the rest were destroyed, as well as all of those. documentation, assembly lines for these machines, spare parts and so on, literally everything. Our designers were very smart, they created serial vehicles, military vehicles, compared to Drozd simple. At the expense of the lantern on the 31st, 2500 always flew, the 25th flew, but the 29th and Sukhariki if necessary fly 2000 without problems. What a muddy problem, like all the problems around the Mikoyan and Gurevich Design Bureau.
      2. ssss157
        ssss157 14 December 2013 22: 37
        0
        I do not consider a flight along the border with a 1-2 km deep to our territory to be a violation
    2. aviator65
      aviator65 14 December 2013 19: 54
      +2
      I agree. As someone has already noticed here, the article smells of narcissism. And the facts are really far-fetched. The story of "Captain Myagkov" is interesting. In that sense, to whom, I wonder, did he tell all this?
  • ded10041948
    ded10041948 14 December 2013 20: 31
    +5
    In 81-83, he served on Novaya Zemlya as a launch officer at the S-75 complex. In good weather, one could see a shiny point (SR-71) in the TZK when it was in a U-turn. There were no cases of intrusion into the airspace of the USSR, but, according to the plotting, it passed very close to the border (within the error in determining the coordinates). Twice they even prepared missiles for launch (the commander then joked about the holes prepared for tunics for awards). The capabilities of the complex allowed to bring down such a target, but with its flight parameters, the defeat would occur outside the country's airspace and the wreckage of the target would fall in neutral waters. The planes that went up to intercept (MiG-25) also captured the target for escort and conducted it, but, for the same reasons, did not carry out a combat launch, limiting themselves to imitating an attack.
    1. smprofi
      smprofi 14 December 2013 21: 26
      +1
      Quote: ded10041948
      In the years 81-83 he served

      here you are an adult, but why say that the S-75 could bring down the SR-71 Blackbird ?. neither the original version, nor further ones, modernized, were able to do this. on the ceiling, it’s like, a rocket will get. and that’s it. detection range, target capture range do not allow to intercept the SR-71 Blackbird at its speed.
      Do you think the Vietnamese did not try to really shoot down the SR-71? But they had the S-75. and, believe me, the Vietnamese had more of your practice in using the S-75. perhaps, in theory, the Vietnamese were somewhat weaker than the Soviet officers. but here in the skills of controlling equipment - thank you, here the Vietnamese plugged almost everyone in the belt. After 25 years of military service, his father was a teacher at the Air Defense Academy. and taught foreigners. according to the results of practical exercises at the training ground, in his estimation, the Vietnamese were the best.
      about the possibility of the defeat of the SR-71 Blackbird SAM 2K11 "Circle" similar tales circulate in the internet. I can also say - impossible.
      perhaps the C-200 could handle Blackbird, but the gringos weren’t fools and they didn’t go out on it.

      in general ... colleague (greetings from the head of the SNR 1C32 from the "Circle"), I would like to believe in the capabilities of Soviet weapons, but reality, unfortunately, says something else ...
      1. ded10041948
        ded10041948 14 December 2013 21: 43
        +3
        There are certain difficulties when firing at such a target, but the launch of three missiles is quite possible and the probability of hitting the target is quite high.
        As for the Vietnamese air defense system, look, if possible, the complexes (their performance characteristics and the year of manufacture) that were available in Vietnam and compare with the capabilities of equipment in 75 and subsequent years. I'm not even talking about the warning and detection systems and the conditions of their operation (I hope you have an idea of ​​the closing angles) when the enemy uses electronic warfare. Well, and similar "little things".
        The Vietnamese, during the flights over their territory, the "SRs" had no idea about the "Volkhov M3" and its missiles, and the SRC they had not "the latest squeak of fashion"!
        1. smprofi
          smprofi 14 December 2013 22: 07
          0
          Quote: ded10041948
          The Vietnamese, during the flights over their territory, the "SRs" had no idea about the "Volkhov M3" and its missiles

          colleague! do not be stubborn in your delusions ...



          Photo of the air base of the Soviet base in Kamran, Vietnam. On the field of TU-95, TU-16 and MiG-23.
          Photo taken 9 February 1987 g

          or did you think of the times of the gringo war in vietnam?

          PS about S-75 I have a vague idea, but the Internet tells
          M-2 "Volkhov-M" (according to the classification of the US and NATO Defense Forces - SA-N-2 Guideline) - medium-range anti-aircraft missile system ship based. Marine version of the S-75 complex.
          1. ded10041948
            ded10041948 15 December 2013 01: 28
            +1
            M-2 "Volkhov-M" and "Volkhov M3" are completely different systems. This is the first thing. Now the second and most important thing (for you, as a person familiar with such questions, I hope, it will be quite a weighty argument): In the middle of the 70s, the task of shooting at the RM imitating the flight of the "SR" was included in the number of tasks of the Shooting Course. In the 80th year at the Ashuluk test site, I had a chance to perform it. Fell down with the first missile. During his service on the NZ, he was convinced that the complexity of the task execution conditions actually exceeded the difficulty of shooting at the "SR": Altitude - 22000 m, target speed - 1000 m / sec, the rest is the same.
            During two years of service on the NZ I made sure that the "SR" was constantly walking at an altitude of 20300m at a speed of 2900 - 3000 km / h. At the test range, target designation was issued at the start of the RM, at the NZ we received it from the radar station located on the Kola Peninsula, about 17-20 minutes before the "foe" approached the archipelago. By the way, who would give the Vietnamese target designation 20 minutes before the target? Maybe japa. By their own forces, the Vietnamese could detect it only 7-8 minutes before the moment the border of the airspace was violated.
            Here is such an alignment in numbers, and "in pursuit" of such targets and now is problematic to shoot.
            By the way, the picture of the base in Kamran was taken from a height of no more than 9-10 km. Pay attention to the cumulus clouds! At such heights, the "SR" constructively cannot work!
            1. smprofi
              smprofi 15 December 2013 02: 56
              0
              Quote: ded10041948
              In the 80th year, at the Ashuluk training ground, I happened to carry it out

              if you said on Emba, site no. xx, then I would believe you. because all the "older generation" of air defense officers, with whom we had to communicate, said "we fired at Emba." "Ashuluk polygon" - an open name, circulates in the internet. among the officers NEVER was mentioned.
              hi
              1. ded10041948
                ded10041948 16 December 2013 00: 55
                0
                Do not confuse SV Air Defense and Country Air Defense. We are talking about different things. If possible, consult your father.
                However, you can consider me one of the Grimm brothers (storyteller).
                Is it possible that, in your opinion, the Balkhash training ground does not exist?
                1. ded10041948
                  ded10041948 16 December 2013 01: 25
                  0
                  Balkhash is also called Sary-Shagan.
      2. sivuch
        sivuch 17 December 2013 17: 05
        0
        Hello
        Could you answer a few questions around the Circle?
        You can in PM
        Best regards
        Igor
  • Pushkar
    Pushkar 14 December 2013 21: 55
    +7
    He served in the Far East in the same years, after mastering and taking up combat duty of the MiG-25, the Americans changed the tactics of using the SR-71. Deep visits to our territory stopped, and the "bird" was accelerated from Alaska and in a gentle arc "touched" the eastern border of the KDVO and landed in Japan. So, even the MiG-25 they began to be afraid, the MiG-31 just finished the job.
  • aiden
    aiden 14 December 2013 23: 11
    +1
    There was a long fantastic article here about sr-71, more precisely about his hijacking in the USSR. It may be interesting to someone http://topwar.ru/30129-ohota-za-chernym-drozdom.html
  • pvv113
    pvv113 15 December 2013 01: 39
    +9
    MiG-31 interceptors are still in service
    Until now, the achievements of the Soviet Union in the field of military aviation are of enormous benefit, and there is nothing special to replace them.
  • saag
    saag 15 December 2013 21: 46
    0
    Quote: clidon
    And how much is the "mass of satellites"?

    Quote: smprofi
    hmm ... what is such confidence based on?

    here - www.ucsusa.org/nuclear_weapons_and_global_security/space_weapons/technical_issue
    s / ucs-satellite-database.html
    satellite database, select the file format - pdf, txt, xls and look
    1. clidon
      clidon 15 December 2013 22: 13
      0
      Excuse me, this newsletter comes every quarter, so I kind of keep up with it. So I ask, where is the "mass of satellites"? Have you read these pdf, txt, xls files?
  • shvindin2012
    shvindin2012 15 December 2013 23: 21
    -5
    Blah blah blah. I understand, of course, Soviet technology is wonderful: reliable, modern for its time, unsurpassed in some aspects. BUT! It's one thing to create an airplane with an unattainable Mach 3,5, and another thing is an air platform with Mach 1,5 for carrying missiles. The MiG-31 was not created as a super-high-speed aircraft, but only a typical supersonic interceptor, nothing more, it is not adapted to the conditions that were overcome by the SR-71. At such speeds that the "Blackbird" flew, it would have collapsed to hell !! At the same time, the "Yankees", as they are called in the Internet communities, have created one that has no analogues in the world. We had this only on paper and in the minds of the designers, but we are proud of the usual "supersonic", inferior in all respects, except for maneuverability. We need to praise the R-33 (AA-9) missiles, flying at such speeds and capable of shooting down even such a legend as "BlackBerd" !! But it's one thing to create an unmanned rocket, BUT it's another thing to create a "rocket" with a pilot on board !!
    1. ded10041948
      ded10041948 16 December 2013 01: 13
      +4
      Excuse me, where does infa come from? You did not serve as a referent for Makarov or Serdyukov?
      The happiness of the MiG-31 is that it does not know your opinion. Perhaps that is why it flies, as indicated in the statement of work for development. By the way, the May bug also did not care about the opinion of scientists and flew.
      1. sivuch
        sivuch 17 December 2013 17: 10
        0
        Do not interfere with the person. Maybe something more unbanal will say. 3 and a half Mach, who is more?
  • Berserker
    Berserker 16 December 2013 10: 29
    +1
    They fly over Perm every day! Beauties!
    1. 123dv
      123dv 16 December 2013 15: 51
      0
      And there is a video up there, just above Perm.
  • kelevra
    kelevra 18 December 2013 18: 08
    0
    The genius of Soviet designers is not so easy to surpass!
  • Savignon
    Savignon 23 October 2018 17: 19
    0
    some nonsense is written. The interception of the blackbird taking off from the American air base in Turkey was carried out once by the USSR Air Defense Forces once, the pilot was captured and was subsequently exchanged. relations between the USSR and Turkey were spoiled, as the Soviet authorities threatened to bomb this air base in Turkey should this happen again.