It's hard to part with the dream of aircraft carriers

163

Russian admirals and shipbuilders do not part with the dream of creating aircraft carriers for the Navy and even aircraft carrier strike groups (AUG), and not one, but two or three, but, of course, five is more desirable. This painfully obsolete topic was once again the subject of an article by shipbuilding engineer Alexander Nikolsky "The Russian fleet is going under water" ("NVO" No. 41, 08.11.13). The author of the article, with specific figures in hand, proves, as twice two is five, and not four, that instead of 10 nuclear submarine missile cruisers (APRK) for the same money, you can build five aircraft carriers - one aircraft carrier every two and a half years. And 250-270 multipurpose carrier-based fighters for new ships should be taken from the Air Force without prejudice to combat readiness. Paradoxically, but this fantastic idea, completely divorced from life, aroused a warm response and approval of some naval specialists, including among the designers of nuclear submarines. Although they are just the least of all should be interested in the transfer of priorities in shipbuilding from the submarine fleet to the surface one. But the ways of designers are inscrutable.

However, let us return to real life and try to understand this problem, especially since the answers lie on the surface.

So, let's start with the question: where to build? In the Soviet Union, aircraft-carrying cruisers (“main caliber” of cruisers — rockets, and aircraft carriers — aircraft, it turned out not at all) were built only in Nikolaev. And now the Nikolaev shipbuilders and the Ukrainian government will not refuse such a seductive order. Here are just experts at the shipyard left with Gulkin nose.

If we build on Sevmash in Severodvinsk, then this means paralyzing the fulfillment of all other orders for several decades. In the workshop where the four hulls of nuclear submarines fit, there will barely be one aircraft carrier hull. And to block the gates of the shop for many years, through which ships take out to the outbuilding pool, means taking the workshop out of the production cycle for as long as the future aircraft carrier is being completed in the fresh air in the drained pool. Remember the example of the Vikramaditya, which for almost 14 years was locked up in this workshop by a civilian ship built to a commercial order.

Let's go further. Collect five deck regiments aviation they couldn’t have been in the Soviet Union. According to the technical passport, the aircraft carrier “Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Kuznetsov” can be based and serviced 16 aircraft Yak-41M, which were never on it, and 12 Su-27K, as well as more than two dozen helicopters Ka-27RLD (radar patrol), Ka-27PLO (anti-submarine defense) and Ka-27PS (search and rescue). Instead of helicopters, one would have to have long-range radar patrol and anti-submarine defense aircraft. But they were not there.

The 279 of the Su-24 aircraft (Su-33K) was part of the 27-th separate naval fighter aviation regiment; by the end of 2005, 22 remained. One aircraft lost in the 17 crash of June 1996 of the year and one in the 5 crash of September 2005 of the year. In reality, the Kuznetsov set off for combat service, having even fewer aircraft in its hangar.

Defenders of aircraft carriers offer to reduce orders for "land" promising aircraft MiG-29, Su-35, T-50, and instead order the deck. Tukhachevsky also proposed to mechanize the army at the expense of the technology of Ochakov's times and the conquest of the Crimea. He ended badly. For the five aircraft carriers there is not and will not be, because in the next 10 – 20 years it is necessary to replace the aircraft with more modern ones in the Air Force. The Navy will wait.

The proposal to transfer the pilots of the Russian Air Force to deck-based aircraft does not hold water. Today in Russia there are fewer deck pilots than astronauts. This is a "piece" specialist. It must first be grown, and then throughout its entire service, its flight training must be maintained and improved. He, as a doctor, must study all his life. And for this, too, need airplanes, training complexes - in a word, training infrastructure on the coast.

Carriers also need bases for parking and maintenance. For Kuznetsov, they built something similar to such a base in Vidyayevo - with a jetty, a boiler room (to provide the floating city with a ferry), an electrical substation. But the Kuznetsov stood there for long. In addition to steam and electricity, experts are also needed. And they traveled to Vidyaevo from Murmansk, or rather Rosta, where the 35 shipyard is located, more than 100 km away. Therefore, they thought and thought in the fleet and transferred the “Kuznetsov” to Growth - it turned out cheaper and more convenient for everyone.

In Soviet times, the main slogan of Glavpur (Main Political Directorate of the SA and Navy) was “First of all ships, and moorings later.” Under the berths meant the entire coastal infrastructure. Since then, I have not heard that somewhere built a new base with the latest technology and technology. So, for aircraft carriers it is necessary to create new bases. These are the costs that the initiator of the change does not envision: ten submarines per five aircraft carriers.

Now about the AUG itself. Alexander Nikolsky rightly remarked that the American grouping usually contains five or six escort ships: Ticonderog type missile cruisers and Arly Burk type squadrons.

The Russian Navy has one heavy nuclear missile cruiser, three non-nuclear missiles, the cruiser Moscow has been in service for 30 years, and four destroyers. That is, military escort ships are not recruited even for two aircraft carriers. So you have to build.

Well, now, the most important thing. No country in the world, except Russia, has experience in operating aircraft carriers in northern latitudes. You can not take off and sit on the icy deck. You can not prick the ice with a stem. A lot of things can not, even if you really want. It is known that aircraft carriers are weapon attacks, not defenses. And we have no one to attack. Neither in the southern latitudes, nor in the middle. And for the protection of our oil-producing platforms in the Arctic, for which, as suggested by military experts, a serious struggle will soon unfold, they are clearly not suitable.

So it remains to be guessed at the coffee grounds, who really need these aircraft carriers: shipbuilders - for the sake of profitable orders, but so far they cannot build a tanker fleet. Or today's captains of rank 1 - for the sake of getting admiral epaulets in the future. Here they are cruelly mistaken in their calculations - they will be fired into the reserve by age earlier than the first aircraft carrier is launched.

The bottom line is the dissatisfied feeling of a Russian patriot: the Americans have 12 aircraft carriers, and we have only one and the half cruiser. It's a shame.
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  1. AVV
    +47
    14 December 2013 14: 46
    You just need to build priorities and really assess your financial capabilities! And in the priority plan, we first need rocket ships, the ocean zone, to protect. Russia's economic interests are primarily in the northern seas and oceans, where there is already fuss now! !! Frigates, corvettes, BOD, as well as submarine missile carriers such as Yasen, Borey, until we saturate the fleet with these ships, the next stage, the construction of destroyers, and the restoration of existing cruisers, the modernization of Moscow, Lobov, Peter the Great !!! And after these works, it will be possible to talk about aircraft carriers !!!
    1. +16
      15 December 2013 08: 15
      Quote: AVV
      Frigates, corvettes, BOD, as well as submarine missile carriers such as Yasen, Borey, until we saturate the fleet with these ships, the next stage, the construction of destroyers, and the restoration of existing cruisers, the modernization of Moscow, Lobov, Peter the Great !!! And after these works, it will be possible to talk about aircraft carriers !!!


      I agree, while the Russian Federation is not going to become a world hegemon, we do not need these AUGs. Does it want to fight with all the oil countries, but it’s bad luck, all of them across the ocean, and not fight with Mexico, really? That's built.
      We have enough land borders, but the ships just above must deal with the sea.
      By the way, as for the airplanes, one important point, during all their operations in Iraq or Libya, aircraft carriers took off from the aircraft, if I am not mistaken, 20-30% of all flights, that is, the main load was still on airfields on land in some sort of SA .
      1. A.YARY
        -5
        15 December 2013 09: 38
        Sledgehammer102 AVV
        I'm just amazed at the existence of such "strategs" as you. Although the years of fooling were not in vain.
        For especially zealously "pressing the brakes"at the word, an aircraft carrier, THE NAVAL DOCTRINE OF THE COUNTRY NAMING THE "GREAT" and "MARINE" cannot but include aircraft carriers.AND IT WILL NOT BE DENIED BY ANYONE AS SO THE USSR - WAS A REALLY GREAT MARINE POWER!
        And the current Russian fleet has been relegated to an ordinary country like the same France, the current is below it (we buy from them !!!!). And all the conversations like - "We don't need to" - funny excuses.

        Aesop- "Fox and Grapes"

        In the meantime, "Chinese aircraft carriers will be built in Dalian and Shanghai" CHINA GREAT MARINE POWER!
        This topic was a little earlier and I already said-
        The one who can, will
        And the one who cannot, he calms himself, “I feel so good” - Of course, you feel good, as well as the Papuans, they just don't care about all this.
        1. -7
          15 December 2013 10: 25
          Instead of aircraft carriers with cruisers, we were asked, without asking us, to amuse the world with the Winter Olympics, worth about 50 billion US rubles. Long live the GDP - the great and terrible builder of the monument to himself. stop
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. +27
            15 December 2013 17: 33
            Quote: almost demobilized
            without asking us to amuse the world with the Winter Olympics worth about 50 billion US rubles


            Probably specifically for the 80 Olympics,% of this money was invested in the infrastructure of the Krasnodar Territory and Sochi in particular.

            Why the Olympics
            1) tens of kilometers of sewer pipes
            2) over 367 km of road bridges and roads
            3) over 480 km of gas pipelines
            4) over 201 km of rail
            5) over 550 km of high voltage power lines
            6) 690 km of engineering networks
            7) power plant with a total capacity of 1,2 GW

            And of course, all this will surely fall apart immediately after the 2014 year, as everything after the APEC collapsed, and bridges, roads, and sewers broke through, and the airport ... But this is written by the leader of the liberals, PRAVDOR Mr. Navalny ....
            1. +2
              15 December 2013 17: 54
              Quote: sledgehammer102
              1) tens of kilometers of sewer pipes
              2) over 367 km of road bridges and roads
              3) over 480 km of gas pipelines
              4) over 201 km of rail
              5) over 550 km of high voltage power lines
              6) 690 km of engineering networks
              7) power plant with a total capacity of 1,2 GW


              as a person who is involved in construction, I can say that this list looks pretty impressive. Is there any information about how much was spent on this and how these works were done? It would be very interesting to know about it.
              1. +10
                15 December 2013 18: 03
                Quote: lonely
                Is there any information about how much was spent on this and how these works are done?


                as you understand the list is far from complete, I mean infrastructure. But its share in total costs in the region of 80%, some sources say about 60%.

                Without denying the corruption component and outright gagging in the construction of some facilities, I can say with confidence, and I hope you will agree with me that the money was not wasted. This applies to APEC and SOCHI, by the way, Kazan is a very good prier in this regard. It was also probably the most expensive Universiade in history, but when I visited the city before and after, I had no feelings except joy for my country and its citizens. Sorry for arrogance
                1. +6
                  15 December 2013 18: 14
                  Quote: sledgehammer102
                  Sorry for arrogance


                  there is no need to apologize. If all this is done, then the money was really spent in vain. this is a huge job. The Olympics will end, and this will remain for the common people. It’s still better than pulling these 80% out of the country and appropriating hi
                  1. A.YARY
                    -6
                    15 December 2013 18: 58
                    Lonely

                    The Olympics will end, and all this will remain for the common people.

                    You are so naive. laughing
                    Everything is already "assigned" to the new owners for the future.This time.
                    But prices there will be such as they think forget it about the "common people"!
                    Of course no new "bar" will be as a "charity" to do "matinees" for the poor. And significant invite some kind of school for that only to make fun- "There we are."
                    1. +6
                      15 December 2013 19: 04
                      Quote: A.YARY
                      Everything has already been "assigned" to the new owners for the future. This time.


                      In particular, they (the new owners) are assigned sewerage with all the crap, which now, by the way, does not merge into the sea, as it was a year ago.
                      Also, all automobile and railway roads, bridges, station, airport, ski slopes, etc. are assigned to them. After all, it took 60-80% of all funds.

                      But the fact that they stole a lot there is obvious, but not always easy to punish ...
                      1. A.YARY
                        -6
                        15 December 2013 19: 28
                        Are you near or what?
                        Will the "new owner" not use this? Only "for residents and guests of the resort"?
                        Well, it’s just impossible to make a toll road?
                        Raise the tariffs? Oh yes, we do not raise tariffs and conduct experiments with the social norm, sorry, I forgot!
                        Stop talking nonsense. angry
                        and again lies
                        does not merge into the sea, as it was a year ago.

                        You are lying because I know that you are lying and where the shit is being poured, I know for certain, I myself once laid the "points" on the bottom, there was such a "hack".
                      2. +4
                        15 December 2013 19: 46
                        Quote: A.YARY
                        Are you near or what?
                        Will the "new owner" not use this? Only "for residents and guests of the resort"?
                        Well, it’s just impossible to make a toll road?
                        Raise the tariffs? Oh yes, we do not raise tariffs and conduct experiments with the social norm, sorry, I forgot!
                        Stop talking nonsense

                        That's when after the Olympics there will be a toll road (you yourself know that you won’t appear) or a sewage system, then we’ll talk about a paid entrance to the train station and airport, but for now, these are all your smart dreams, I’m not far from yours))

                        By the way, living in an energy-deficient region is probably generally pleasant, especially for investors to invest, not far off
                      3. A.YARY
                        -1
                        15 December 2013 20: 17
                        PAUL
                        By the way, live in an energy-deficient region

                        This is so, but not entirely, its own power plant in Krasnaya Polyana, and it was not built by the current primier-experimenter over the people, but by this very people.
                        I’ve been fond of skiing since childhood, I went to Krasnaya Polyana every winter, before this craziness, but now there’s no way — PRICES however!
                        Where before there was everyone how much hosh-teper without a bag of money, no, no.
                        And I feel like talking to you is empty.
                    2. 0
                      16 December 2013 00: 31
                      I hope someday, when they will chase these owners by the collar, they will not take it all by themselves lol maybe then something will go to ordinary people what

                      everyone is dreaming. some are throwing about an aircraft carrier, others about AUG. I just dreamed about it once, they immediately called me naive laughing
            2. 0
              17 December 2013 17: 24
              Quote: sledgehammer102
              what about the olympiad
              1) tens of kilometers of sewer pipes
              2) over 367 km of road bridges and roads
              3) over 480 km of gas pipelines
              4) over 201 km of rail
              5) over 550 km of high voltage power lines
              6) 690 km of engineering networks
              7) power plant with a total capacity of 1,2 GV

              Previously, there was enough electricity for the Sochi people, who could know that the winter Olympics would be held in the southern city? Now they are sitting without light and water. But this is nonsense, right? But what hotels, fireworks, casinos, tracks ... Excellent cut! Sochi was probably no town at all, probably there was no canalization at all, and there was nothing at all! In your opinion, it’s just a great coincidence - and to hold the Olympics and fix the city, where in general it was not bad for an ordinary Russian . Yes, it was easier to put the Olympic village out of the blue, since we have no other places in the country to hold such an event. Better stop this worthless polemic, I already stop, all sane citizens of the country understand the problem of this greatest theft correctly.
          4. -2
            15 December 2013 23: 05
            Yes, even if at least 100 billion - but name it as in the same time frame as the preparation for the 2014 Olipiada Russia would have built at least one aircraft carrier (it needs about the Indian one - it was not built from scratch - the hull was already there, but in terms of time it was there generally sad). A modern frigate (project 22350) at a good shipyard (for Russia, of course) has been building for 7 years. Therefore, I think you can find fault with whatever you like - but you should evaluate it by the results. And the GDP is the same "manager" as the rest of the leaders of states - and if we judge by the deadline, it suits the "shareholders" completely laughing .
          5. -1
            15 December 2013 23: 05
            Yes, even if at least 100 billion - but name it as in the same time frame as the preparation for the 2014 Olipiada Russia would have built at least one aircraft carrier (it needs about the Indian one - it was not built from scratch - the hull was already there, but in terms of time it was there generally sad). A modern frigate (project 22350) at a good shipyard (for Russia, of course) has been building for 7 years. Therefore, I think you can find fault with whatever you like - but you should evaluate it by the results. And the GDP is the same "manager" as the rest of the leaders of states - and if we judge by the deadline, it suits the "shareholders" completely laughing .
          6. bif
            +3
            16 December 2013 02: 09
            Quote: almost demobilized
            Long live the GDP - the great and terrible builder of the monument to himself.

            - Why are you not happy with Putin?
            - It is difficult to find work without experience, prices are rising, rents are rising ...
            - Was it better in 90?
            - No problem. In the kindergarten I had breakfast, played and sleep! ..
        2. Fin
          +21
          15 December 2013 10: 55
          Quote: A.YARY
          I'm just amazed at the existence of such "strategs" as you. Although the years of fooling were not in vain.

          Did you read the article? It says in black and white that they have nowhere to build, and indeed it is. And from the fact that you throw slogans - nothing will change.
          1. +9
            15 December 2013 11: 32
            So you need to build a new shipyard with the appropriate capabilities.
            1. +11
              15 December 2013 14: 37
              Quote: Dart2027
              So you need to build a new shipyard with the appropriate capabilities.

              After all, it is said in the article that we can’t collect not only an aircraft carrier, but also a full-fledged AOG. It is quite possible to pay attention to missile technologies to destroy such AUGs. So to speak, a symmetrical answer
          2. A.YARY
            +10
            15 December 2013 11: 40
            UV Sergey
            During the existence of this power, NOTHING was built.
            Neither CVD nor SRH.
            For example, one "YugRybpromrazvedka" had a tonnage many times greater than the entire Russian fleet.
            And I say this with great sorrow!
            In the world's fleets, the "Fregat" was considered a unit only when counting pennants, but the ship (in this case) was not considered a coastal zone, alas.
            Assurances about the "jerk" already look like a fakir's pipe, but the reality is that it will remain a pipe.
            The stolen budget funds are many times larger than the budget itself, but thieves are not being planted, what does this tell you?
            The tax press on the people is increasing, but there are no real cases - what does this tell you?
            The budget of the holy of holies (in Soviet times) is being stolen by the Ministry of Defense, but what it is not able to realize, what does this tell you?
            And does all this tell you at least something?
            1. Fin
              +7
              15 December 2013 13: 09
              Quote: A.YARY
              The stolen budget funds are many times larger than the budget itself, but thieves are not being planted, what does this tell you?

              Andrew! Read the topic title again. I share your thoughts and pain for the country, and I would put "+" in the relevant topic. Come back to reality, I also want aircraft carriers to be, but there is nowhere to build, especially to the detriment of other classes.
              Quote: A.YARY
              In the world's fleets, the "Fregat" was considered a unit only when counting pennants, but the ship (in this case) was not considered a coastal zone, alas.

              According to our classification, the frigate corresponds to TFR. And he was never a coastal man.
              1. A.YARY
                0
                15 December 2013 13: 19
                SERGEI
                According to our classification, the frigate corresponds to TFR. And he was never a coastal man.

                Once, one madame told me that my husband is almost consistent with her jujul.
                And there is also a correspondence (some) of cellular and analog communication, and you can further enumerate similar "correspondences".
                There are maritime traditions in the gradation of ships, and in their and our relation to them.
                Let's stick to the rules of the fleet and not newfangled comparisons. The fleet is a conservative thing.
                There are cruisers are ships.
                There are aircraft carriers are ships.
                And other things, sorry, please-retinue (the right thing) but not the king at sea.
                1. Fin
                  +3
                  15 December 2013 14: 06
                  Quote: A.YARY
                  Let's stick to the rules of the fleet and not newfangled comparisons. The fleet is a conservative thing.
                  There are cruisers are ships.
                  There are aircraft carriers are ships.
                  And other things, sorry, please-retinue (the right thing) but not the king at sea.

                  Have you come up with this pun yourself or what? And what are the rules on the fleet, according to the classification of ships? As I understand it, do you write something on the principle of maintaining a conversation?
                  1. A.YARY
                    0
                    15 December 2013 14: 12
                    Sergey Probably you are acrimonious in the matter in view of the impending urges to exacerbate?
                    Classification was introduced sooo long ago by monitors.
                    And the most beautiful frigate has only 5 rank.
                    From SW.
                    PySy. By the way, you yourself perfectly compared with SKR, and his tasks in the sea are the protection of ships to which, by definition, he is attached, independently, alas, he is not a fighter.
                    1. Fin
                      +1
                      15 December 2013 14: 31
                      Quote: A.YARY
                      Classification was introduced sooo long ago by monitors.
                      And the most beautiful frigate has only 5 rank.

                      You are fond of sailboats, they are no longer at sea, with the exception of training.
                      Classification http://flot.com/publications/books/shelf/chainikov/5.htm
                      1. A.YARY
                        +3
                        15 December 2013 14: 46
                        I understand that you just do not care what to answer.
                        The USSR Navy did not have the concepts of corvette and frigate very clearly: bpk-mpk-mrk, cruiser, destroyer ... Moreover, the bpk and um were of the 1st and 2nd ranks ...
                        And now, just according to Our accepted classification, he is somewhere between MRK and IPK, but it’s a shame to advertise such a breakthrough in shipbuilding, and they’ll call me corvettes and frigates
                        Now a personal question, are you naval?
                      2. Fin
                        +2
                        15 December 2013 15: 29
                        Quote: A.YARY
                        And now, simply according to Our accepted classification, it is somewhere between MRK and IPK,

                        Andrey, well, at least go to the TTX Wikipedia, see the IPC and TFR. I'm already tired.
                        Quote: A.YARY
                        Now a personal question, are you naval?

                        Yes.
                      3. A.YARY
                        +2
                        15 December 2013 15: 57
                        And as I understand it, they served in Russia and not in the USSR?
                        And let's not wikiki and other riffraffers-dislike.
                      4. Fin
                        +1
                        15 December 2013 16: 16
                        Quote: A.YARY
                        And as I understand it, they served in Russia and not in the USSR?

                        I understand that they looked. So what's with the frigates, the coastal man, or what?
                      5. A.YARY
                        0
                        15 December 2013 16: 31
                        So what's with the frigates, the coastal man, or what?

                        I already answered you.
                        The frigate is not our concept, this Schaub did not jar and for the sake of "brotherly NATA" - our language is dark for them.
                        If we are talking about SKR, then (I translate) the Guard ship — security tasks in a group of ships or the border service (rarely)!
                        He has no prospects for action on his own. Go to the library, preferably in Kronstadt.
                        If you get knowledge, then in the first person. I can remember, but this is not good.
                      6. A.YARY
                        +1
                        15 December 2013 16: 40
                        Pysy
                        Do not find that we have deviated from the topic of conversation - I gave an example with a "frigate" for a clearer understanding of how small the fleet becomes under the current "leaders".And even if you do not take aircraft carriers (greatness and power) then what are they building? at least something similar to the Soviet fleet with them is not waiting for us.FACT!
                      7. Fin
                        +4
                        15 December 2013 17: 45
                        Quote: A.YARY
                        If we are talking about SKR, then (I translate) the Guard ship — security tasks in a group of ships or the border service (rarely)!
                        It has no prospects for action on its own.

                        Andrew! You, as I understand it, from the moon !! And now again look for SKR Zadorny, Hot, Easy, Brisk, Permanent, Worthy ... went around the world, including alone. Maybe after that it finally comes to the conclusion that they are not coastal workers and similar frigates too. Whether this is our concept or not, what difference does it make? The main thing is to have more.
                        Quote: A.YARY
                        at least something similar to the Soviet fleet with them does not wait for us. FACT!

                        I answer again: CANNOT yet !!!!
                      8. Fin
                        0
                        15 December 2013 16: 52
                        Quote: A.YARY
                        If you get knowledge, then in the first person. I can remember, but this is not good.

                        I immediately wrote to you frigate - TFR.
                      9. avg
                        +1
                        15 December 2013 18: 10
                        Dear, your argument has grown into an “uncompromising argument, for the sake of argument”. Everything is relative in our fast-paced world. Currently, the destroyer is considered to be the main, universal ship, but frigates, who so far cannot compete with them in autonomy, cruising range, etc., are rapidly catching up with them by the power of weapons. So, it is better to compare ships according to specific capabilities, and not according to a rather conditional classification. By the way, during the Union, NATO members called our BOD frigates. Yes
                      10. A.YARY
                        0
                        15 December 2013 19: 14
                        laughing And try in the English language say quickly: Large anti-submarine ship laughing
                        And so that you understand correctly, they will think that you order pizza. laughing
                        Yes, and for now you will say the northern animal will knock on board. wassat
                      11. avg
                        0
                        15 December 2013 20: 01
                        Quote: A.YARY
                        laughing And try in the English language say

                        ASW ship wink
                      12. Fin
                        +2
                        15 December 2013 20: 05
                        Quote: avg
                        Dear, your argument has grown into an “uncompromising argument, for the sake of argument”.

                        Yes, if it was a dispute. Andrey Yary decided to adjust the classification and began to talk a little (rank 5, between the IPC and RTOs, coastal ...). And now I decided to get out, but somehow somehow awkwardly, I will remember Jujulu, the leaders are bad, now I quickly pronounced BOD to him in English. And towards the end of the day already started to put emoticons. What is it for?
                        Andrey, well, if you didn’t freeze, admit it !!!
                      13. A.YARY
                        -1
                        15 December 2013 20: 42
                        Uv Sergey
                        Your generation "froze". So it froze that the chills will still break through, this time.
                        Second, learn a little manko for a reasoned conversation, on the books of those who created the USSR Navy, and not on articles in tyrnet.
                        Third, I have no reason to "get out", I'm right.
                        For sim everything.
                      14. A.YARY
                        0
                        15 December 2013 18: 51
                        Again, either not knowledge or forgetfulness is felt.
                        Solo swimming is undertaken for a number of reasons in the overwhelming advantage to the combat use of having no relationship.
                        And if you are a naval officer, you are obliged to know this.
                        Let's take a little rest in our argument - it’s hard for me to type text with one hand.
                      15. +2
                        15 December 2013 22: 25
                        Quote: A.YARY
                        The frigate is not our concept, this Schaub did not jar even for the sake of "brotherly NATA"

                        You already somehow decide. Then your frigate is not a ship at all, it’s so tidy with oars, and when you were poked with your nose, you decided to ignore this concept, like a frigate is not ours, ugly.
                      16. +1
                        15 December 2013 23: 43
                        Quote: Fin
                        Classification http://flot.com/publications/books/shelf/chainikov/5.htm

                        Sorry, I went through the link. This is not a classification but eclecticism at the amateur level. There is no division according to the FORCES of the fleet: underwater - surface. Further: ROCKET_ARTILERY ships (near the surface), ATOMIC SUBMARines WITH BALLISTIC R-TAMI ON THE BOARD (plarb-rpkSN) and so on each branch ... If you wish, look at the structure of the modern Navy, they still adhere to the classification. Good luck.
                      17. Fin
                        0
                        16 December 2013 09: 26
                        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                        Sorry, I went through the link. This is not a classification but eclecticism at the amateur level.

                        Yes, I threw him the first one that came so that he would not leave the watchdogs from the time of the war. But still useless.
                    2. +3
                      15 December 2013 23: 28
                      Quote: A.YARY
                      Classification was introduced sooo long ago by monitors.

                      And as a marine, you must admit that she was constantly improving until she came to the modern look: 1 -4 rank.
                      Quote: A.YARY
                      And the most beautiful frigate has only 5 rank.

                      there's no such thing. If you are interested, then this is the ships of the FAR SEA. Yes, not oceanic (D float more than 5000 nautical miles), but the far zone.
                      "Project 22350 frigates - project (type) of a multipurpose frigate far sea zonedesigned for the rearmament of the Russian Navy. "http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/22350
          3. +7
            15 December 2013 12: 42
            Actually, they are planning to build shipyards in the Far East with the Koreans, and somewhere near St. Petersburg.
            So far, Russia is undergoing relaxation, but if nothing is done then in ten years any middle-state state will put Russia on all fours. And then there are no planes, ships have nowhere to build, and if you build frigates for 10 years and submarines for 20, it’s time to wake up already, the world is moving forward, all the issues cannot be resolved with oil and gas. They survived, they can’t make a gun for a frigate.
            1. typhoon7
              +2
              15 December 2013 16: 26
              I subscribe to your words.
            2. avg
              0
              15 December 2013 17: 44
              Quote: saturn.mmm
              So far, Russia has gone through a slack, but if nothing is done then in ten years any middle-state state will put Russia on all fours ... They have survived, they cannot make a gun for a frigate.

              So let's sabras, help. At least make a gun on a frigate. wink
              1. +2
                15 December 2013 20: 07
                Quote: avg
                So let's sabras, help. At least make a gun on a frigate.

                But Motovilikhinsky factories and Arsenal will do what?
                We are making our contribution to the defense, and have not yet heard any complaints.
          4. +3
            15 December 2013 14: 26
            -Fin: it says in black and white that there’s nowhere to build them ...
            And to serve SOME.
            Today, the service life in the Russian Navy is 1,5 years. This time, according to the military, is CATASTROPHIC enough for the training of a sailor - the only way out of this difficult situation is to transfer the entire crew on a contract basis.
            From 1993 to 2007, a significant drop in the birth rate was observed in Russia - by 750 thousand people per year. And the number of students with deferrals from the army is growing. Therefore, a massive shortage of not only draftees, but also contract soldiers.
            PS I think that the Yankees have the same problems (demographic). But China and India do not.
            1. Fin
              +3
              15 December 2013 14: 41
              Quote: knn54
              Today, the service life in the Russian Navy is 1,5 years.

              Service life 1 year.
        3. +6
          15 December 2013 14: 39
          China has an egg in a vice, we don't. Having built aircraft carriers, we will leave something more needed without resources. The USSR had practically no aircraft carriers, it had floating batteries of air defense missile systems like the "eagles" and "Atlantes". Before bombing someone in Africa, it would be nice to assemble the country at least as a part of Ukraine without the West and Belarus, plant your people in Central Asia, enslave Poland and the rest of the Euro bastard, ...
        4. +5
          15 December 2013 17: 21
          Quote: A.YARY
          THE NAVAL DOCTRINE OF THE COUNTRY NAMING THE "GREAT" and "MARINE" cannot but include aircraft carriers.


          You are not being told that we do not need them at all, but in the situation in which we found ourselves after the slogans of the all-fledged 1991 ala "75 years to nowhere" we cannot build the AUG and the main infrastructure for it and escort ships in a short time.

          This is called prioritization. The choice is
          1) kill a lot of money and build the first AUG for 10-15 years, while abandoning nuclear submarines, frigates and missile cruisers

          2) Build an effective means of destroying enemy AUGs, while increasing the underwater and surface ship composition. And already from this moment, or slowly, in parallel with the process of rearmament, to begin the construction of a shipyard, infrastructure and the development of the project of the first real aircraft carrier.
        5. -1
          15 December 2013 21: 32
          Correctly. This is from the category of utterances of the early 90s: why do we need space if we didn’t eat sausages to the full? Nonsense and heresy, but the opinion is still very widespread. Alas!
        6. -2
          15 December 2013 21: 57
          No, we need noses! Only non-defective floating airfields like Invisibles, which have only three anti-aircraft guns in their armament. We need carrier cruisers capable of fighting a whole squadron alone
        7. The comment was deleted.
        8. +1
          15 December 2013 22: 57
          Please specify, where do you think Russia can use its aircraft carriers?
          Just not about "showing the flag" and "great sea power" - but the real protection of the state. Because the current fleet is clearly not naval and, accordingly, Russia cannot compare itself with America and China (although by the number of ships) (I hope that "still", not "already") YET cannot.
        9. standby
          +1
          16 December 2013 01: 17
          Of course your patriotic impulse is inspiring! I also propose to be realistic! The USSR was a superpower spending the lion's share of the budget to strengthen its defense capabilities, and therefore could project its strength anywhere in the world’s oceans. Russia has a budget deficit and extremely low economic growth rates, millions of low-income people, an undeveloped social sphere and a bunch of other urgent problems, the solution of which requires money! We are not popuars, of course, God willing, we will never become them, on the contrary, we will continue to produce weapons, and much more to sell to them! But we must live within our means! What is included in the defense order now is urgent measures, and is it worth it to project power on the far shores, it is the United States that brings democracy to the world, their economy depends on it very much! And we would have to sort out our problems. I propose to refrain from comparing with China because our GDP and economic growth rates differ significantly, and this directly affects defense costs!
        10. bif
          +1
          16 December 2013 02: 08
          Quote: A.YARY
          THE NAVAL DOCTRINE OF THE COUNTRY NAMING THE "GREAT" and "MARINE" cannot but include aircraft carriers.
          1. 0
            16 December 2013 23: 05
            If I am not mistaken, the ships of Project 1144 were just planned to be used for escorting the aircraft carrier "Ulyanovsk". Four super-powerful multipurpose ships plus a full-fledged air group equals a US Navy nightmare.
      2. Lesnik
        -4
        15 December 2013 16: 21
        You dear, like the author of the article, turn the situation upside down.
        I have not heard that Russia is giving up its role as one of the poles of influence in the world !!! I'm not saying that nuclear submarines are not needed, especially since I am not saying that aircraft carriers are not needed. The strategy and even more so the tactics of using "slightly" differ! And this is the main advantage of the aircraft carrier !!!
        1. VAF
          VAF
          +4
          15 December 2013 17: 30
          Quote: Forestman
          The strategy and even more so the tactics of using "slightly" differ! And this is the main advantage of the aircraft carrier !!!


          The advantage of an aircraft carrier is its combat capabilities, which are due to:

          1. Unlimited stay in the database area.
          2. The presence of an aviation wing that allows solving problems:
          - on air cover.
          -to destroy objects at sea.
          -to destroy objects on land.
          - availability of trained flight personnel.

          We do not have a single one of the above items, as a result of which we, in the present period of time, REALLY cannot carry out any B.Z.
          Is that .. Somali pirates .. "drive" soldier
      3. 0
        15 December 2013 19: 41
        Quote: sledgehammer102
        while the Russian Federation is not going to become a world hegemon

        whatever it is according to Hegel ... Russia is your mother, not just what you have to, but you have to respect .... (C)
        Since there is an interest in Russian capitalists, they will build Stopudovo, it was the USSR that could not take a steam bath, not our bathhouse wink , and all the reasons were sharpened on the economical destruction of the aggressor, and now the "aggressor" = this is a "companion", do not dare to offend laughing , but in a simple way, I hope they know and figured out how much easier and cheaper just to become "your own" in the region = look at the work of our Chinese "brothers" = they completely copy the work of the USSR, and very successfully belay
      4. +2
        15 December 2013 21: 54
        But the Brazilians, without further ado, simply built a naval combat aircraft platform to protect the oil field. Cheaper and more versatile. The runway length is significantly greater than any flight deck - as far as I remember, the length of the runway on the Brazilian platform is more than 1300 meters. And this allows you to base much more heavy aircraft.
    2. pahom54
      +14
      15 December 2013 10: 23
      for AVV
      Totally agree with you. Here you can still recall the example of Nazi Germany - not battleships that did not play almost any significant role in the 2nd World War, namely the powerful submarine fleet, which gave both Amers and Britons a request.
      We will have a powerful submarine fleet - there will be a powerful counterargument to the Amer AUG.
      I myself would be happy to learn that Russia suddenly had not only aircraft carriers, but also everything that was left, that is, AUGs, but I understand perfectly well that today Russia will not be able to bear this overwhelming economic burden, so that the development of the submarine fleet will be more effective - then frigates-SKR - BOD - and only then, God forbid, we get to the construction of aircraft carriers and the formation of the AUG.
      1. +5
        15 December 2013 11: 45
        Admirals are also people. And they also have the right to dream. 5 AUGs! Why not 7?
        If a schoolboy had such dreams, I would understand. Can it be that the admirals don’t know that creating these 5 AUGs requires a huge amount, and now the economy is not able to do this.

        Effective managers did their best to keep 5 AUGs a dream.
    3. S_mirnov
      +8
      15 December 2013 11: 41
      Quote: AVV
      You just need to set priorities and really assess your financial capabilities! And in the priority plan, we first need rocket ships, the ocean zone, to protect. Russia's economic interests are primarily in the northern seas and oceans, where there is fuss now! !!

      The main thing is who needs it! So you and Russia need rocket ships, and the leadership needs the World Cup and the Winter Olympics in the southern city of Sochi, for which we will buy snow machines in Israel and Mistral ships, which is also more necessary than domestic shipbuilding.
    4. Airman
      +7
      15 December 2013 11: 51
      Even Kozma Prutkov said: "You cannot embrace the immensity," and therefore our state needs a clear and clear military doctrine, what we want and what we give priorities. And now there is only shuffling from side to side: nuclear submarines without missiles (Bulava cannot fly), the Strategic Missile Forces are taking out old missiles, but no new ones, etc. The government, together with the guarantor, chews snot, instead of making tough organizational conclusions. We need aircraft carriers, but, in my opinion, we have not grown to them (our industry) and therefore, rather than 10-15 years to build one aircraft carrier, it is better to have more nuclear submarines with "flying" missiles.
      1. S_mirnov
        +3
        15 December 2013 12: 09
        Quote: Povshnik
        and therefore, our state needs a clear and clear military doctrine of what we want and what we give priority to.

        This is what our leadership has been saying and talking about for many years, and will continue to speak for a long time until oil and gas can be pumped from Russian land. And it will do completely different! Because there is no one to ask them, there is no responsibility of the president and the government to the people of the Russian Federation !!! Steering wheels as you want!
      2. Onyx
        +1
        15 December 2013 23: 47
        Quote: Povshnik
        Strategic Rocket Forces old missiles decommissioned, but no new ones

        Is Yars not a missile for the Strategic Missile Forces?
    5. +10
      15 December 2013 12: 46
      If the concept of warfare does not include the use of aircraft carriers, and priority is given to other means, then why spend money on this now? Let's first restore what we lost in 20 years of crap and liberalism. During the USSR, we had no aircraft carriers, but Western "friends" trembled when they heard the word "Navy". Therefore, first the completion of the nuclear submarine, the repair of existing ships and the commissioning of new ones. soldier
      1. -2
        15 December 2013 22: 42
        But the Soviet naval doctrine saw in the carrying cruisers a means of ensuring the combat stability of nuclear submarines. It’s no secret that the main enemy of submarines is aviation of all stripes, and away from the coast only a carrier cruiser can protect underwater missile carriers with its carrier-based aircraft. So we need carrier cruisers if we want our boats to reach the distance of launching anti-ship missiles to American AUGs.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. 0
          15 December 2013 22: 46
          From the North Pole, the ICBM approach time to New York is 30-35 minutes. Why is there an aircraft carrier?
          1. 0
            15 December 2013 23: 33
            ICBMs and anti-ship missiles are not the same thing
          2. Onyx
            +1
            15 December 2013 23: 48
            Quote: maxcor1974
            From the North Pole, the ICBM approach time to New York is 30-35 minutes. Why is there an aircraft carrier?

            from there the time is about 20 minutes no more
    6. +2
      15 December 2013 22: 42
      Quote: AVV
      You just need to prioritize and really evaluate your financial capabilities!

      The economy is primary. A powerful economy is a powerful state budget. And with a strong budget, you can pull the submarines, cruisers, and aircraft carriers. Only liberal Gaidarites should be driven out of the government and attract business executives, production organizers, strong economists such as Glazyev for example ...
    7. 0
      16 December 2013 01: 34
      In my opinion, absolutely true.
  2. makarov
    +2
    15 December 2013 08: 07
    Truth is born in a dispute, but as long as this dispute continues on the pages of the magazine, it remains only words. For anyone, the decision to BE, OR NOT BE, is taken by the TOP. Do they read the opinions of ordinary commentators and publicists (?), I do not know, then why break spears in disputes ?????
    1. +4
      15 December 2013 11: 17
      Makarov: For anyone, the decision to BE, OR NOT BE, take the TOP. Do they read the opinions of ordinary commentators and publicists (?), I do not know, then why break spears in disputes ?????

      Your words can be attributed to almost any topic raised on the site. But nevertheless, you come here for some reason? And leave comments? You can drink a vodka in your kitchen, and talk ??? recourse
  3. +3
    15 December 2013 08: 09
    Russian admirals and shipbuilders do not part with the dream of creating aircraft carriers for the Navy

    it’s hard to give up any dream. and it’s almost impossible with such a thing. Yes, and admirals can be understood, absolutely legally and justifiably do not want to be in the oceans in the second, and even in the third roles
  4. +13
    15 December 2013 08: 25
    Need aircraft carriers or not ?? Yes, of course we need !!!! It’s just that they won’t be there until a handful of homosexual thieves-liberals (you understand) who have dragged our Motherland in their pockets, will not be removed from power ... That's when Abramovichs, Deripaska and others like them will not buy yachts, football clubs in the west, to withdraw money from the country, then all issues can be resolved with infrastructure (berths), and with construction (shipyards), and with an air wing ..... And as long as these helminths manage the economy, all the talk about aircraft carriers, normal education, decent medicine, and the other, and the other will remain talk ...
    As the saying goes: Sea pass - a pair of bellum .......
  5. +5
    15 December 2013 08: 52
    Quote: So it remains to speculate on the coffee grounds, who really needs these aircraft carriers: shipbuilders - for the sake of profitable orders, but they still cannot build a tanker fleet. Or today's captains of 1 rank - for the sake of getting admiral epaulets in the future.

    If the author speaks about the construction of aircraft carriers with such sarcasm - do not expect objectivity in his reasoning.
    I wonder who thought to plan the construction of 5 aircraft carriers at once. Even the US cannot afford it. Or is it the notion of the author himself? It turns out some kind of shyness in maximalism! Or he might think and build one aircraft carrier for the Far East. And continue the nuclear submarine construction program. You cannot treat such a serious matter so superficially.
  6. +2
    15 December 2013 09: 04
    I wonder what the author tried to prove? the fact that now Russia has few ships and it is not up to aircraft carriers? Well, of course, the economy is weak, although it contains cruisers of 30 thousand tons of displacement and even plans to introduce more after modernization. The fact that the USSR could not be built is also extremely doubtful, it was simply not the will of the leadership to do this, but the will of the leadership appeared and the USSR quite safely built the nuclear submarines with two! titanium! strong cases with a displacement of 50 !! thousand tons. Could a surface ship of 70-80 thousand tons not be mastered? It’s a rhetorical question, they just decided to build no less expensive apl, simultaneously deploying an even more expensive space target designation system, how much it all cost no one really points out, but they love to bring the price of an aircraft carrier, striking the layman with billions of bucks.
    1. A.YARY
      +5
      15 December 2013 10: 10
      The fact that the USSR could not build is also extremely doubtful


      Эit’s not doubtful but a blatant lie!
      All sold and sawn except for the miraculously survived "Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Kuznetsov" SOVIET AIR CARRIERS !!! it would be if it were not for the humpbacked and not his singers like this author!








      1. Lesnik
        -1
        15 December 2013 19: 24
        Quote: A.YARY
        All sold and sawn except for the miraculously survived "Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Kuznetsov" SOVIET AIR CARRIERS !!! it would be if it were not for the humpbacked and not his singers like this author!


        Totally agree good
      2. +1
        15 December 2013 22: 45
        I absolutely agree. The soul just hurts, remembering the fate of the magnificent carrier cruisers like Kiev ...
    2. +2
      15 December 2013 13: 14
      Quote: barbiturate
      Premier League already with two! titanium! strong cases with a displacement of 50 !! thousand tons

      If you mean pr.941 then they were steel, someone wrote the wrong on the wiki.
      I completely agree with you all the rest.
      The Ulyanovsk hull was assembled, catapults developed, ship planes too, but perestroika came ....
      1. +2
        15 December 2013 22: 48
        There was also a very similar story about the remarkable VTOL aircraft named Yak-141. It did not even stop perestroika, 4 serial aircraft were built, tests were successfully carried out, but then the USSR collapsed and the most advanced VTOL aircraft in the world collapsed with it ... Yakovlev Design Bureau did not survive this blow
  7. +14
    15 December 2013 09: 33
    Do not be like Ellochka the cannibal and her struggle with the American billionaire of 12 chairs.
    “Two hundred rubles that her husband received monthly at the Elektrolyustra plant was an insult to Ellochka. They could not help the grandiose struggle that Ellochka had been waging for four years, the struggle was waged with a full exertion of strength. She absorbed all the resources. Ellochka four years ago noticed that she has a rival overseas. Mr. Schukin, who had long cherished the dream of buying a new drawing board, was somewhat depressed. The next issue of the fashion magazine included portraits of the damned rival in four forms: 1) in black and brown foxes, 2) with a diamond star in the forehead, 3) in an aircraft suit (high boots, a very thin green jacket and gloves, the trumpets of which were encrusted with emeralds medium) and 4) in the ballroom toilet (cascades of jewelry and a little silk).
    Elochka mobilized. Papa Schukin took a loan at the mutual assistance fund. He was not given more than thirty rubles. A new powerful effort fundamentally undermined the economy. I had to fight in all areas of life. Photos were recently taken of Miss at her new Florida castle. Ellochka also had to get new furniture. ”
    God forbid, restore the fleet, and then engage in manilism.
    1. +5
      15 December 2013 17: 10
      Quote: Stinger
      God forbid, restore the fleet, and then engage in manilism.

      The Russian airbag in the amount of about half a trillion dollars lies in American banks at 0,5% per annum and to some extent does not allow the American economy to collapse, which has an annual military budget of approximately 650 billion, while Russian banks lend to industry at 12%.
      Here is a portrait in black and brown foxes.
  8. +12
    15 December 2013 09: 35
    Do Russia need aircraft carriers or not? A moot point. There are plenty of opponents and supporters and you can argue until hoarseness. The decision will be made by the government and the military. The main thing is that it would be balanced and calculated by 100%. The author correctly identified the problems that will have to be solved if a decision on construction is made. I express my opinion, at the moment Russia does not need aircraft carriers. These colossal funds can be spent on the construction of surface (non-aircraft-carrying) and submarines, the development of the Air Force, the rearmament of the ground forces, and the development of new types of weapons.
  9. +2
    15 December 2013 10: 10
    Having resolved the issue of re-equipping the army and air force with new weapons, we must carefully approach the re-equipment of the fleet, and what and how to do this should be decided by specialists ...
  10. +4
    15 December 2013 10: 15
    I am for any investment in the fleet, whether it be a submarine or an AB, this is at least beneficial for Russia, and if everything ends with projects and conversations ... Billions fly away abroad, settle in bureaucratic pockets ...
  11. +10
    15 December 2013 10: 25
    Quote: A.YARY
    I'm just amazed at the presence of such "strategs" as you. Although the years of fooling were not in vain. For especially zealous "pressing the brakes" at the word-aircraft carrier

    Andrey, take a good look at the state of our economy today, the lack of prospects for its growth in the near future, the lack of the Cabinet of Ministers even an understanding of how to revive it. In such a situation, throwing billions of dollars into projects that are dubious in terms of ensuring their defense capability and implementation time, to the detriment of the real prospect of renewing the strategic nuclear forces is insane. 1-2 AUG will not ensure the maintenance of the country's defense as a whole, it is still an offensive weapon. It is the strategic nuclear forces that cool the ardor of the most ardent supporters of "democratization" in Russia. Besides, judge for yourself, our "friends", if we have a developed infrastructure for the construction of aircraft carriers, in response to the construction of 1-2 aircraft carriers in our country, during this time they can build 5-7. This is a hopeless race, we are initially in unfavorable conditions. Those who advocate the construction of an aircraft carrier fleet are doing a great service to the State Department, I can imagine how they will be delighted with such a decision.
    1. +4
      15 December 2013 11: 39
      Quote: maxcor1974
      1-2 AUGs will not provide support for the country's defense as a whole, it is still an attack weapon.

      1-2 AUGs will provide cover when the SSBN enters combat duty areas and provide cover for aircraft PLOs during the search for enemy submarines.
      1. 0
        15 December 2013 11: 59
        Quote: PSih2097
        1-2 AUGs will provide cover when the SSBN enters combat duty areas and provide cover for aircraft PLOs during the search for enemy submarines.

        Preliminary "extinguishing" of the AUG foes with ballistic RDDs with UBB will nullify all attempts at cover, don't you think?
        Moreover, air cover by fighters (SU for example) on an 1000 mile from the base of the SSBN exit is elementary provided ...
  12. ReifA
    +11
    15 December 2013 10: 30
    Russia does not need foreign territories; it would be proper to master its own. Therefore, aircraft carriers are needed last. Now we would have missile destroyers, icebreakers and more submarines.
  13. +8
    15 December 2013 10: 47
    You need to live within your means and wisely. Put in order what is. So that this would go on hikes and not rot at the berths and be only on paper. Make sure that the submarine was built not for 10-15 years, but as in Soviet times 2, for a maximum of three years.
    But Abramovich’s and Deripaska’s family could be planted only because they bought football clubs and yachts from the country. The Greek millionaire Averov built a cruiser with his own money, now a natsgeroy. And these heroes because they put shoes on their own country. How many ships could would build on their money? FLEET!!!
    Including large toys - aircraft carriers.
    Further, we need shipbuilding facilities for this, we need training centers for training crews. When all this will function well, then build aircraft carriers in accordance with the doctrine. And now even the same "Kuznetsov" goes to sea every other time and then in a group with a tanker and one APC ...
    Live within your means and wisely.
  14. +5
    15 December 2013 10: 47
    Everything is written correctly. The aircraft carrier is the top of the pyramid. But without the underlying layers, this pyramid is fragile. First, there are maintenance and repair bases, then a "retinue" of defense and support ships. And only then the aircraft itself.
  15. +3
    15 December 2013 10: 53
    The dream will be over after the instant and absurd death of one of the newest American aircraft carriers at its base and in calm weather.
    But I am a supporter of nuclear-powered ice-class helicopter carriers that can already be built in the Baltic.
    1. 0
      15 December 2013 22: 08
      Another special has appeared.
      I’m a supporter of the icebreaker class nuclear-powered helicopter carriers Firstly, not the ICE CLASS, but the ICE CLASS or the ICE-TYPE. And secondly, how and why you are going to use them.
  16. +12
    15 December 2013 10: 58
    Someone really wants Russia at this stage to dive into the abyss of the AUG construction, abandoning the construction of other important tasks
    1. +7
      15 December 2013 11: 10
      My colleague completely agrees. We need AUG last. For this money, you can solve many other, more important problems. There is a saying, "If you want to ruin the country, give it an aircraft carrier." This could be afforded by the Americans who were furious with fat in their time and, as we can see, they achieved it. We need to go in a less costly and no less effective way.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. 0
      15 December 2013 22: 10
      The most sensible thought. Probably someone wants to warm their pocket on its development and construction.
    4. The comment was deleted.
  17. +1
    15 December 2013 11: 17
    It's hard to part with the dream of aircraft carriers

    This weapon is not for defense, but for the promotion and protection of their interests around the world.
    You also need to think about this, but first you need to put things in order at home - get away from dependence on $ US.
    Only then will we have our own interests in the world and the need to protect them.
  18. +1
    15 December 2013 11: 23
    Dreaming is not harmful; it is harmful not to dream. We must live within our means, but having outlined the goal, 5 AUGs, we must do everything to achieve it.
  19. +4
    15 December 2013 11: 28
    Americans are launching drones from under the water. And we have "Sharks" without missiles ... What are not aircraft carriers ... That would be where the means and design genius to apply ...
    1. +4
      15 December 2013 11: 40
      Quote: MstislavHrabr
      And we have "Sharks" without missiles ...

      This is a question for our leadership, which closed the Bark project of the Design Bureau named after Makeeva did not want to come to an agreement with YuzhMash ...
      1. +3
        15 December 2013 12: 22
        Quote: PSih2097
        did not want to agree with YuzhMash ...

        On the subject of what did not agree, dear colleague?
        After all, Ukrainians, receiving sovereignty, have signed before the whole world that they will not be a nuclear and military-rocket-producing country. It is unacceptable to even negotiate with them on this topic ...
        1. +2
          15 December 2013 14: 10
          engines could help. After all, work with Satan was going on. As for me would do ..
          By the way, the question is ... since our "great country" the Nikolaev shipyards cannot afford it ... is it possible to buy them out and build the buildings there? I'm afraid they are finishing the queen's legacy.
    2. -1
      15 December 2013 22: 13
      Yes, and also teach the "Sharks" to fly. laughing
  20. stranik72
    +4
    15 December 2013 11: 33
    Yes, we have strained both with cruisers and destroyers, so what about aircraft carriers?
    Moreover, there are matters and more importantly, for example, education and healthcare, when when we reach the level of the USSR even in these matters then we can dream about aircraft carriers.
  21. +1
    15 December 2013 11: 45
    Quote: Boris55
    It's hard to part with the dream of aircraft carriers

    This weapon is not for defense, but for the promotion and protection of their interests around the world.
    You also need to think about this, but first you need to put things in order at home - get away from dependence on $ US.
    Only then will we have our own interests in the world and the need to protect them.

    So, after all, our military doctrine is defensive and, according to it, the fleet provides protection for the territory of our country. 90% of the seas in our country are covered with ice and the operation of aircraft carriers in the winter is impossible or very difficult. Something is not visible to the amers in the Barents and Okhotsk seas, not to mention the Kara and others.
  22. +2
    15 December 2013 12: 00
    Quote: A.YARY
    The budget of the holy of holies (in Soviet times) is being stolen by the Ministry of Defense, but what remains to be realized, what does this tell you? And does all this tell you at least something

    Comrade Ardent. In your indignation, of course, you are right. But this is about another problem. She needs to be addressed. But by other means. The author of the article under discussion draws attention simply to the real problems of the TODAY'S state of shipbuilding. And offers to make decisions based on realities. And it offers quite reasonable views.
    And if the problem of political will is solved (?), It will be possible to think about changing the shipbuilding strategy. Why not?
  23. +4
    15 December 2013 12: 16
    The author of the article correctly "painted" the untimely idea of ​​building aircraft carriers for the Russian Navy.
    Perhaps he overlooked, or left unattended, only one aspect, namely, modern means of combating AHG are able to put them to the root to rot.
    Not without reason, the GDP said about these components: ground-space communications, reconnaissance and target designation, new equipment for warheads for long-range missiles. And he said that in this direction we will move ...
  24. +10
    15 December 2013 12: 17
    The author’s position is clear, the argument - alas, let us down.
    If you build on Sevmash in Severodvinsk, this means paralyzing the execution of all other orders for several decades

    This is "a little" wrong - Sevmash was building nuclear submarines in parallel and deeply modernizing Vikramaditya
    But the funniest thing is - imagine that Joseph Visarionych would start "stretching his legs over his clothes" and make plans for the growth of the USSR economy on the basis of the tsarist industry at his disposal ... Hitler would have taken Vladivostok in 1941.
    If we don’t have something - workshops, workers, equipment, etc. - then we need to build a workshop, create equipment, and train workers. The state has money for this, you just need to abandon deliberately idiotic projects like the Olympics, scattered, skolkovo ... And a little clean up among those who spend state money. And it is not in vain that the expression has already become winged - as soon as the state starts to implement the project for a billion, one billionaire in Russia immediately becomes more.
    Government orders are a great driving force of the economy. F.D. Roosevelt precisely by expanding the state order saved the United States from the "Great Depression" (not only to them, but to them too) Investing in the same aircraft carriers will become a huge contribution to industrial construction (the same works on a workshop and a swimming pool is not a nine-story building) machine-tool industry (it is clear why) chemistry and composite materials, aviation industry, radar, (program for the creation of AWACS aircraft) + a legion of related subcontractors. I'm not even talking about electromagnetic catapults - here is science, and the dual purpose of technologies and so on and so forth.
    Workers - it is placing orders that is the best way to speed up the attraction and training of working specialties - when they say to a person, you come, get a specialty, work + more or less decent salary.
    Instead, we invest in guest workers in Sochi.
    Defenders of aircraft carriers offer to reduce orders for "ground" promising MiG-29, Su-35, T-50 aircraft, and instead order deck ones.

    Well, let's count. In order for the fleet to constantly have at least one aircraft carrier, at least two of them are needed. At the same time, even if now we lay down the second aircraft carrier, then it will be good to expect its commissioning, if so in 8 years, or even all 10. By this time, Kuznetsov will have to be sent for major long-term repairs, even if the average they will still make repairs to him (which I strongly doubt)
    In general, the situation when we see TWO aircraft carriers in the fleet at the same time is a matter of a VERY distant future, even if you start doing it right now. I guess years through 15.
    Well, after these 15 years we will need 2 air wings, one to Kuzyu, the second to new ABs. By the way, Kuzya already ordered Migi. An increase in aviation capacities so that in 15 years it would be possible to build 4 a dozen new aircraft - is this an unsolvable task of the Century that will tear the Russian budget? Oh, Vissarionitch is not on you ...
    1. +5
      15 December 2013 12: 18
      The aircraft carrier’s wing (while the aircraft carrier is under repair, let’s say) can quite perform the tasks of naval aviation - actions on the coastal flank, covering the coast and coast, air defense, and finally, not distract the Air Force
      In general, a very far-fetched problem
      The proposal to transfer the pilots of the Russian Air Force to deck-based aircraft does not hold water. Today in Russia there are fewer deck pilots than astronauts. This is a "piece" specialist. It must first be grown, and then throughout its entire service, its flight training must be maintained and improved. He, as a doctor, must study all his life. And for this, too, need airplanes, training complexes - in a word, training infrastructure on the coast.

      Yeah. But the Air Force pilot doesn’t need all this - 8 hours of flying time at the flight school and into battle, right? am
      The Air Force pilot is for the author to know, ALSO a piece specialist.
      Well, now, about the most important thing. Not a single country in the world, except Russia, has experience operating aircraft carriers in the northern latitudes.

      But do we have that? So what do we need other countries for? And DV, if anything, at our service
    2. The comment was deleted.
  25. Volkhov
    +2
    15 December 2013 12: 25
    The article is dull pragmatism, and the authorities demand creativity and put forward various slogans, when combined, the aircraft carrier fleet will be born:
    - troops created in the Arctic will capture a flat iceberg
    - migrants arrested in Biryulev crowbars will give him the form of an aircraft carrier
    - tugboats delivered to the fleet will drag him to storm America along the Titanic highway
    - airplanes of all types prohibited for operation in the Russian Federation will fly to an iceberg and scare the whole world
    - drillers trained on Prirazlomnaya directly from the iceberg will be drilled to oil and will always refuel tugs, planes and an iceberg refrigerator!
    More optimism!
  26. +5
    15 December 2013 12: 33
    Quote: A.YARY
    For especially zealous "pressing the brakes" at the word "aircraft carrier", the NAVAL DOCTRINE OF THE COUNTRY NAMING "GREAT" and "MARINE" cannot but include aircraft carriers.

    You are absolutely right. And this must be sought.
  27. +2
    15 December 2013 12: 38
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    If we don’t have something - workshops, workers, equipment, etc. - then we need to build a workshop, create equipment, and train workers.

    That is exactly what China is doing! Take a look, all from scratch! It just needs the will and desire and strategic thinking.
    1. +2
      15 December 2013 12: 43
      Quote: Ross
      It just needs the will and desire and strategic thinking.

      Here I am about the same. The road will be overpowered by a walker.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  28. -5
    15 December 2013 12: 48
    AGAIN and AGAIN, beaten, about the Racean aircraft carrier !!!
    AGAIN the next autoshka is numbed, from a calories material I slap an article. AGAIN I will get minuses for my opinion about these articles about our fantastic aircraft carrier, but when will this calendaring about AV RF end?
    This is not even science fiction, it’s mirages ... on the basis of picking in one place ....
  29. +1
    15 December 2013 12: 53
    aircraft carriers are weapons of attack, not defense. And we have no one to attack. Neither in the southern latitudes, nor in the middle

    Not entirely correct. For example, the mentioned cruisers of Project 1164 are also exclusively offensive weapons, so what. "Fleet in being" is still relevant, which is confirmed by the development of events around Syria. And the more powerful the fleet, the more it influences events in the world. In addition, perspective must not be forgotten. The appearance of these very aviation regiments for AB without the AB themselves is not possible. And the absence of targets for attack now does not mean that they will not appear in the future.
  30. 0
    15 December 2013 13: 01
    I put the article "minus". Again for whining that we do not need to attack and there is no one, that we have nothing to do in the southern latitudes, but in the northern latitudes we need to chop the ice with a bow. The question is, why should we always defend and not attack, why our interests should remain off the coast of Russia, and not extend to the entire planet, why, if we are a great country, we should look at someone, ask for something, explain something to someone. It feels like we should always make excuses to everyone, apologize. But this is the position of cowards, and cowards are either beaten or lowered in full.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. -1
      15 December 2013 18: 18
      My dear, voice who you are going to attack? We have 150 million people and a huge territory that no one can develop, why do you need someone else?
      If you are ready to spend a billion in bucks on an 1 aircraft carrier, you should take care of creating a doctrine of its application. At the moment she is not.
      Otherwise, such cheers-patriotism as yours is probably well paid from the State Department, because the construction of an aircraft carrier will suck out a lot of money from the defense budget, and this is at a time when even the strategic nuclear forces on our lower border are permissible and require updating.
      It is not the presence of aircraft carriers that keeps the "friends" from exerting force on us, but their understanding of receiving unacceptable damage as a result of a "retaliation strike" against any attempt at forceful action. Maintaining a combat-ready state of the strategic nuclear forces, their improvement is the priority that should come first before the state. They support our independence. Then the systems of air defense, missile defense, ground forces, air force, navy (nuclear submarine). And the aircraft carrier is a large, beautiful, vulnerable target, which no one is afraid of, but which, like an expensive Rolls-Royce, requires huge funds for its maintenance.
      The Reagan administration managed to drag the USSR into a knowingly losing arms race. You can not step on the same rake a second time.
      1. Fortnite
        0
        19 December 2013 15: 13
        Quote: maxcor1974
        If you are ready to spend a billion in bucks on an 1 aircraft carrier, you should take care of creating a doctrine of its application. At the moment she is not.

        Yeah, but forgiving billions of Soviet debts is a trend ...

        PS - the article put MINUS - nagging and juggling ...
  31. +4
    15 December 2013 13: 05
    In the Soviet Union, as I understand it, aircraft carriers were built on the Black Sea shipyards, shipbuilding capacities of Ukraine, which had all the capabilities and specially trained people for this ... Now this tab can be done conditionally-theoretically ... I don’t know the capabilities of Russian shipyards and what size ships there you can lay ...
    Second, an aircraft carrier is a means of projecting its forces in any oceanic region and the basis for building up a strike force in case of a possible attack ... Also, an aircraft carrier requires a convoy of a large squadron of ships and ships of various classes, in fact, a whole fleet ... Does Russia have such opportunities now and to whom will we demonstrate our shock capabilities and for what purpose? We have practically no sea allies ...
    In general, you need to answer such questions. to determine the need for ships of this class ... And building a steam-turbine cruiser with a small air group, of course, is still not an analogue of a nuclear-powered Nimitz-class aircraft carrier with two power plants (Gerald Ford in the future) ...
  32. Andrey Ulyanovsky
    +5
    15 December 2013 13: 09
    "Tukhachevsky also proposed to mechanize the army at the expense of technology from the times of Ochakov and the conquest of the Crimea."
    Truth? The author personally referenced the selected works of Mikhail Nikolaevich: http://militera.lib.ru/science/tuhachevsky/index.html Do you need quotes? You are welcome:
    “The new engines are being sought in the form of a diesel, which will give more reliable action, eliminate magneto and the possibility of exposure from the ground, and also eliminate the flammability of the aircraft and facilitate long-distance flights due to the very economical consumption of fuel [182]. The Junkers aircraft diesel engine is large an achievement in this regard.
    In addition, intensive work is underway to design aircraft turbines, both gas and steam.
    Finally, a highly secret but intensive work is underway to create a jet engine. "
    "... If the country prepares itself for the widespread production of airborne landing forces capable of seizing and stopping the enemy's railways in decisive directions, paralyzing the deployment and mobilization of its troops, etc., then such a country will be able to reverse the previous methods of operational actions and give the outcome of the war a much more decisive character. The strongest in a future war will be the country with the most powerful civil aviation and aviation industry. "
    "It can be said without error that modern warships are not yet prepared to fight a powerful air enemy. And this air enemy is growing into more and more power ..." (1928 !!!)

    And a few words from the Preface:
    "The idea expressed in this report by MN Tukhachevsky about the procedure for protecting the line fleet from attacks from the air, which found application during the Second World War, deserves attention. [14]
    “The protection of the linear fleet,” wrote M. N. Tukhachevsky, “from air attacks should be entrusted to special vessels bearing:
    a) aviation capable of taking off at any moment to repel enemy attacks. "

    This is 1928. Dear author, do not you think that at least your phrase, indicated at the beginning of the comment, deserves a revision of the position?
  33. +2
    15 December 2013 13: 20
    The question is whether AB is needed to demonstrate the flag or for a real confrontation with China and the United States. In the case of the real, nuclear weapons may very well come into play. Judging by the articles on this site, work has been carried out on managed and homing units and quite successfully. I think these works continue according to modern information. But a nuclear warhead is not necessarily a direct hit, just a few kilometers and all ships will turn into coffins with a slow death from for induced radiation. The first warhead is detonated at a distance and cripples the entire air defense for 20 minutes (due to electromagnetic radiation and strong ionization of the atmosphere), there is no interference to the rest, but this is of course in a direct collision and the subsequent beast with blue fur. neither in understanding the application nor financially.
    1. +2
      15 December 2013 14: 49
      Any direct confrontation with the United States or China will inevitably lead to the use of nuclear weapons.
  34. +3
    15 December 2013 13: 49
    Of course, hottsa a couple of new aircraft carriers, as the saying goes: "Let it be."
    But still, today they are not a priority. First you need to upgrade conventional weapons, and only then think about such expensive toys as an aircraft carrier.
  35. +1
    15 December 2013 14: 01
    Quote: Volkhov
    - troops created in the Arctic will capture a flat iceberg

    This does not meet the military doctrine of landscape changes, to protect the Arctic from encroachments from Sochi, ice-making machines will be brought and icebergs will be made
    1. Volkhov
      +1
      15 December 2013 15: 23
      No, all Sochi refrigerators are used to freeze the Bosphorus blockade - even under the Tsar there was a special art corps in Odessa, the polar explorer Kolchak was preparing the landing for the 1st World War, and now there are refrigerators.
  36. dpurpur
    +2
    15 December 2013 14: 11
    I’m certainly not an expert, but I don’t understand why an aircraft carrier is in the North, where there is ice around. Yes, and with whom there to fight the aircraft. In the Baltic, he has no maneuver, he is just a target. In the south, in order to fully use it, it is possible only after the capture of the straits from the Turks. It turns out only the Pacific Fleet. Or away from their native coasts by the seas and oceans, but then bases with a powerful infrastructure are needed, but they are not. They almost kicked out of Syria. It is probably better to invest in modern ships: cruisers, destroyers, submarines.
  37. +3
    15 December 2013 14: 15
    What, however, is an inexhaustible topic - to be or not to be a Russian aircraft carrier. But everything is clear - for the construction and maintenance of the ACG, a breakthrough of funds is needed, and the state of the economy is not similar to the USA and China. Nuclear deterrence forces and their modernization are vital, especially in connection with the development of American missile defense. Drones are needed. Cyber ​​military. We need funds for special services and a lot, the internal threat has not even gone away at all.
    Talking about Skolkovo, Rusnano - well, all the same, these are attempts to revive the economy, it is clear that with all kinds of kickbacks, who knows, there may be an effect, at least somehow doubtful.
  38. Andrey Ulyanovsky
    0
    15 December 2013 14: 33
    An aircraft carrier is an airfield, mobile, protected and saturated with aviation, not a flagpole for "displaying the flag". And these airfields are needed in all fleets.
    And by type they are at least not one. And by the way, there were no aircraft carriers in the USSR — there were TAKRs — completely independent ships with powerful missile weapons.
  39. +3
    15 December 2013 15: 00
    Many commentators, just a woman's whine, like: "I want panties from Saint Laurent."
    Carriers, in the long run, like dreadnoughts, are doomed to degeneration.
    Very quickly developing air defense. She can already fight with high-speed missiles, and planes are just seeds. It is expected the emergence of laser weapons that can neutralize any aircraft.
    For the destruction of aircraft carriers, precision-guided weapons systems have been developed that allow the warhead to precisely hit the desired target.
    Cranes to aircraft carriers! There will be no benefit from them.
  40. +2
    15 December 2013 15: 04
    Wasteland I’m not a sailor, but it’s clear that there is no money for aircraft carriers, but there are a lot of other problems. In order to start building the AUG first, at least it is necessary to develop AWACS planes, build the bases, and do a huge bunch of everything, and this despite the fact that you need to have time to solve both current and problems in the short term. Moreover, for every non-Russian AUG there are a couple of nuclear answers, as a last resort.
    So we will build aircraft carriers, but when we need it, in 30 it may be years when the 1 ruble will weigh much more than the 1 roll of green toilet paper. We must be patient and work, work, work.
  41. 0
    15 December 2013 15: 06
    Quote: nik6006
    at least develop AWACS aircraft

    It was something like the An-38, at least I saw such a picture, but then it didn’t go
    1. 0
      15 December 2013 22: 32
      Not based on the An-38, but an independent Yak-44 project.
      1. 0
        16 December 2013 23: 01
        An excellent aircraft would have come in handy, but alas, they did not manage to do it. This topic can be continued, there is a reserve, and with a new elemental base.
  42. 0
    15 December 2013 15: 12
    well, it’s not bad to dream, there’s still not decided on Kuzya, and you’re already making plans, if they start building no earlier than 18 years. there’s simply nowhere, as many here noted, even there are no pilots and this is true.
    there are a lot of unsolved problems, and it’s not clear what’s happening in the heads of admirals, in general the situation is not the most rosy, but it’s not worth dusting your head with ashes. a lot depends on project 22350. if everything goes according to plan, then they will be the basis of the fleet and the basis of the escort for future AB ...
    1. Volkhov
      0
      15 December 2013 18: 18
      Kuzey was fully decided 10 days ago ... and therefore an article about the uselessness came out.
      Six months later, an article will be published somewhere in London or Miami that the Russian Federation was not needed ...
  43. 0
    15 December 2013 15: 14
    Quote: Dart2027
    So you need to build a new shipyard with the appropriate capabilities.

    Can you throw some money out of your pocket?
    1. +4
      15 December 2013 19: 43
      First, there is money in the country. The main problem with personnel who "decide everything" is that we need workers and engineers, not lawyers and economists.
      I myself am a design engineer.
      Secondly, do you have anything against the construction of shipyards "for an aircraft carrier" as such? If necessary, such a shipyard will be able to safely build other ships, the same cruisers and destroyers.
  44. The comment was deleted.
    1. VAF
      VAF
      +4
      15 December 2013 17: 54
      Quote from rudolf
      Ready for the cons.


      Only +! soldier drinks
    2. +1
      15 December 2013 18: 24
      Quote from rudolf
      Ready for the cons.

      And here we take it and put it on! Yes, you write everything right, My friend! hi
      The next 20 years is just a dream! But striving for possession of such ships is necessary. For the state, in the historical context of 20 years - nothing, but you need to think for decades to come! I strongly disagree with my colleagues claiming that aircraft carriers will soon die out, as a class? No, they will not die out and for a long time they will be a significant trump card in the hands of politicians and the military! If only there was a will, the rest would come with time.

      Vaf Only +!
      And immediately!
      vaf (1)hello friend! hi
  45. +3
    15 December 2013 15: 51
    Comrade suckers.
    First, go on an excursion to the village of the Pacific Primorsky Territory, and then talk about aircraft carriers.
    There, both "Lazarev" and "Ural" were killed.
    Build aircraft carriers as much as you want.
    Just go serve them yourself. And maintain their combat readiness on them.
    For submarines in Kamchatka, at least they built life.
    If you are in Texas (Pacific village), ask to spend in Pavlovsk.
    There were based pl.
    It’s easy to write any garbage.
    Try to serve.
    1. Fortnite
      +1
      19 December 2013 15: 29
      Quote: Vasya
      Try to serve.

      Tried ... 8 years - normal flight. The parameters are normal, no comments.
      Don't be too scary to catch up. Yes, the ship is complex, but, with the appropriate approach, it is quite tough. Again, I will repeat somewhere - all the troubles of "Kuznetsov" are due to the fact that the industry has forgotten how to design large ships. Here the problem of quantity directly translates into quality. I can't cover all the "byak" - the forum will not be enough, but if we take into account the experience of building and further operation of the "Kuznetsov" everything should work out ... I think that the presence of even one ship, even in the form of a training airfield for deck pilots, is already worth the candle. .. By the way, it is my deep conviction that "Kuzya" survived only thanks to the support of the pilots. Yes
  46. 0
    15 December 2013 15: 57
    Russian army to defend the country, not an attack. And all the construction goes in line with this strategy. For protection, a 100% retaliatory strike and counteraction at sea requires nuclear submarines. What shall we protect them? Who to attack? And most importantly, how much do we need to build them to defeat at least some states? And where are the pilots to take so much? Our officers in 2008 led the troops by mobile, and here we are thinking about the AUG ...
    1. coserg 2012
      +1
      15 December 2013 17: 17
      Respected! To defeat the United States, we need to settle in their territory, but for this we need a huge number of IP. Otherwise, suffocate from the stench that they will frighten when we appear. And so that we do not (missiles, ships, planes) win which will not. Personally, I do not want to win (read to seize the territory), but I want to shut up and not come to me with my homo-lesbian, etc. democracy.
  47. +2
    15 December 2013 16: 27
    Quote: pahom54
    Here you can still recall the example of Nazi Germany - not battleships that did not play almost any significant role in the 2nd World War, namely the powerful submarine fleet, which gave both Amers and Britons a request.

    --------------------------------------------
    And in modern history, our submarine was exactly under the belly of an aircraft carrier during the "Desert Storm" in 1991 and was just waiting for an order to organize a disastrous kick for the American squadron ...
    In World War II, the ever-memorable Tirpitz performed only frightening functions, militarily turned out to be a Cyclops with awkward power, which was very expensive to use in comparison with the targets being killed ...
  48. Harmony
    +2
    15 December 2013 16: 43
    I agree, sea airfields (aircraft carriers) are needed. Someone must cover our marine connections in the oceans from the air. Air direction is one of the most dangerous. The fact that it is difficult to do it now is understandable. But, you need to do !!! At least now it is necessary to conduct scientific and technical research on how and how many aircraft carriers need to be built. Where and how they will be made, how much it will cost. And how to do it all faster, cheaper and more efficiently, and even so that they are head-ahead in terms of prospects ahead of the US. Because while we build ...
  49. +7
    15 December 2013 16: 46
    Oh brothers, I read everything, - "I shed a tear." Of course, I really want AIR CARRIERS in the Russian fleet to have not two or three, but neither money, nor the ability to build, operate, equip them with aviation and highly professional personnel, unfortunately NOOOOOO !!! and in the next 20-25 years will not. At least kill, at least minus. sad
  50. +6
    15 December 2013 17: 22
    I agree with the author. For the same reasons:

    1) There is nowhere to build and no one (the question can be solved but it will require huge resources and a lot of time - you won’t learn specialists in a year)

    2) Such ships have nowhere to be based. The sad fate of the 1143 project is an example of this. The basing situation has not improved since then.

    3) Today the Navy does not have tasks for which such ships are required. And if we talk about the prospect, first you need to clearly define the concept of the combat use of the fleet. This is also not yet.

    If we talk about the revival of ships with aircraft weapons, then first of all it is worth understanding what kind of aircraft weapons are required. Personally, I would first of all consider not the strike forces but the capabilities of anti-aircraft defense, air defense, as well as reconnaissance and target designation. To solve such problems it is not at all necessary to build full-fledged aircraft carriers.
    1. VAF
      VAF
      +3
      15 December 2013 17: 59
      Quote: Taoist

      If we talk about the revival of ships with aircraft weapons, then first of all it is worth understanding what kind of aircraft weapons are required. Personally, I would first of all consider not the strike forces but the capabilities of anti-aircraft defense, air defense, as well as reconnaissance and target designation.


      Almost completely agree, +! soldier Only about the Percussion, not in the first place, in my opinion, you are in vain.
      Since I consider the total "destruction" of the MPA to be a direct betrayal! soldier
  51. 0
    15 December 2013 17: 42
    Before the First World War, if I’m not mistaken, we built 1 battleships, they inflated a lot of money, and they stood in the port throughout the war. And at the front there was 5 rifle for three. And the Germans in the 1nd had all the battlecruisers poking around the skerries. The same thing with aircraft carriers, in 2 years they will place weapons in space and from there it will be a big mess for all the ships, so why spend money on targets. And to demonstrate the flag, you can paint a couple of eagles and that’s good.
    1. No Name
      +3
      15 December 2013 17: 51
      Quote: yashka12007
      Before the First World War, if I’m not mistaken, we built 1 battleships, they inflated a lot of money, and they stood in the port throughout the war.

      All seven RIF battleships entered service during the war. The last of them was not completed, as were all four battlecruisers.
      By the way, the Black Sea battleships did not defend themselves in ports, but acted very intensively. And if they had not been there, then the army would have had a hard time in the Caucasus, since “Goeben” and “Breslau” completely threatened Russian communications.
  52. +11
    15 December 2013 17: 49
    The most important thing that Russia does not have now is that there is no need for aircraft carriers! There is an urgent need for modern aviation, especially in the North, there is an urgent need for airfields, there is an urgent need for pilots, but not for aircraft carriers! We have the world's largest unsinkable aircraft carrier - our country, but it must be defended... All our interests now are either within the country or around it! The Arctic is our main problem for the near future... Aircraft carriers are ships of the open ocean (I don’t mean Kuznetsov, that’s basically neither this nor that), but we don’t have feasible tasks there!
  53. VAF
    VAF
    +2
    15 December 2013 17: 55
    Quote: serezhafili
    There is an urgent need for modern aviation, especially in the North, there is an urgent need for airfields, there is an urgent need for pilots, but not for aircraft carriers! We have the world's largest unsinkable aircraft carrier - our country, but it must be defended... All our interests now are either within the country or around it!


    +! soldier
  54. coserg 2012
    +2
    15 December 2013 18: 32
    It seems to me that the northern sea route requires not ordinary warships, which, no matter how the icebreaker runs around it, will take a long time to be repaired after each voyage, but military icebreakers with good weapons. Boats and aircraft will help if anything happens!
  55. +5
    15 December 2013 18: 39
    The Soviet Union fell in no small part because we lost the information war; this war has not ended and will never end. Our sworn “friends” did not destroy our fleet so that it would now be reborn. What we “don’t need” are aircraft carriers, unique Arctic boats of the “Shark” class, VTOL aircraft and tiltrotors, BMPT and BMP-3, our airborne forces and many other things that interfere or may interfere with our enemies. Demagoguery and hypocrisy, under the guise of common sense and “concern” for the Russian budget. With all this, a contract army, “outsourcing”, and division of Defense Ministry property are being imposed. It’s high time to remove from our gardens all those “advisers” who plucked “cabbage” from the State Department and the CIA in them, frolicking under Gorbachev and Yeltsin. This is in general, but about the article, if the author here singles out “weapons of attack,” he is either sincerely naive, or he is grist to someone else’s mill. On top of everything, this “iron” logic is that if we don’t have it now, we can’t, and we don’t have to! Necessary! If you don’t start now, then it will be too late, especially since you will have to start not with 5-6 AUGs, but with the revival of personnel, capacities, and the creation of infrastructure. A long journey begins with the first step, for us it is in preparing the construction of the first aircraft carrier, which will also take 10 years, if not more, during which time we need to train pilots and create new carrier-based aircraft and helicopters. The fleet needs to be revived, the country needs to be revived, without this Russia cannot survive. If you don’t do anything now, the old people, designers, engineers, craftsmen, workers who knew and could leave the defense industry, then it will be too late. Apparently, this is what our “well-wishers” are trying to achieve.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +2
      15 December 2013 18: 54
      Yes, you are a romantic! It doesn't take much talent to write so much crap with a patriotic tint. The State Department probably pays you for such comments? You apparently don’t understand that in order to maintain the security of the state with rather limited resources, you need to concentrate on performing specific tasks. And in the future they will remain the same - maintaining strategic nuclear forces, the entire nuclear triad. Wars are won not only in battles, but also in factories, production workshops, and the economy. The creation (design and construction) of one AUG is comparable in price to the construction of 3-4 nuclear submarines, capable of potentially destroying up to 1/4 of the territory of a potential enemy. Based on this, draw a conclusion for yourself, what do we need more, what is more important now? Although if you look at your comment from the point of view of the American State Department, then of course the aircraft carrier is more important to us now...
      1. +2
        15 December 2013 19: 42
        Quote: maxcor1974
        It doesn't take much talent to write so much crap with a patriotic tint. The State Department probably pays you for such comments?
        I'm not the one writing the crap. Russia is no poorer than China or India. Price of one AUG! Did you finish reading the comment, or did you immediately start objecting? It seems that the essence is not important to you. An aircraft carrier is not an end in itself, if you cannot understand this with your arithmetic, and I was talking about the fact that wars are won not only in battles, but also in factories, in production workshops, in the economy. How long can you pit an aircraft carrier against a submarine? In order not to have to bring matters to a nuclear triad, a strong fleet with its daily work is needed, but with your logic, a country without an army and a navy will be left with only police and a “nuclear triad”.
        1. 0
          15 December 2013 19: 55
          Since even the state has not yet bothered to create a doctrine for the use of AUG, you probably know about this. Please give a hypothetical example of our use of an aircraft carrier. Or, as with Kuznetsov, let’s build it first, and then think about how to use it (By the way, no one still knows what it’s capable of, except demonstrating the flag, with its 20 flying units, at least not to scare the Americans). It takes a lot of money to operate. And in 17, it will undergo major repairs, so do you think the Yankees will immediately capture us, and this will undermine the defense capability of the Motherland?
          1. +3
            15 December 2013 20: 35
            Quote: maxcor1974
            Please give a hypothetical example of our use of an aircraft carrier.
            Do you know an example of the use of the “nuclear triad” on our part? There are many examples where the fleet and aircraft carriers were used “not on our side”, even if you don’t remember the victory of aviation over the Doenitz boats in the “Battle of the Atlantic” and the triumph of aircraft carriers in the Pacific Ocean in World War II, they were actively used in “peacetime” . The war for the Falklands, Iraq, Yugoslavia, everywhere, with the help of the fleet and aircraft carriers, the desired scenario was pushed through. If Russia had an AUG in the Mediterranean, many issues regarding Syria would be resolved faster, better and easier for us. The presence of our AUG at sea would be very useful for our strategic boats, which were left without cover. The fact that you do not see the role of the surface fleet, and aircraft carriers with their aircraft in particular, in defending Russia’s interests and preventing a major war, does not mean that this is not important and not necessary.
            1. -1
              15 December 2013 20: 54
              This is why strategic nuclear forces exist so that they will never be used. This is a guarantee that AUG will not be used against us. The beginning of the use of strategic nuclear forces is the end of civilization. And the example you gave of the use of aircraft carriers, excuse the beard. Yes, and they were used against countries that were not able to get the same USA or England in another way. That is, they were used outside the territory of the states of their owners (USA vs. Japan, England vs. Argentina). But against Germany in the Second World War, aircraft carriers were practically not used; they would have immediately sunk to the bottom from German submarines. Even in 1945 they were not used. Regarding the cover of our nuclear submarines. You probably heard the president's speech. The main danger for both us and the United States is from boats under the “cap”, those that are more or less tracked on the high seas. But I haven’t heard about the invention of icebreaker-class aircraft carriers yet, who should we cover at the pole?
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      2. +5
        15 December 2013 20: 29
        A full-fledged military base with an airfield, air defense and good security in Syria or Egypt could replace our aircraft carrier in this region... The Mistral should be left in the Black Sea for reinforcement, plus the climate is suitable... Kuznetsov must be modernized, repaired and preserved its resource because in the near future we will not have a new aircraft carrier... Its place is in the Pacific Ocean... Build its berthing wall there. A large-tonnage civilian shipyard could also be built there, which could, on occasion, carry out its repairs and in the future... The Far East and Siberia from possible aggression, deliver "Rubezh" and more than one... And more airfields and aircraft...
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        2. 0
          15 December 2013 20: 35
          Sound Reasoning
        3. -2
          15 December 2013 20: 53
          Quote: MstislavHrabr
          A full-fledged military base with an airfield, air defense and good security in Syria or Egypt could replace our aircraft carrier in this region...
          Calculate how much cheaper such a permanent base with all the infrastructure, security, supplies and rent will be, especially when it is needed today in Syria, and tomorrow in Somalia, Vietnam or Venezuela. Finally, aircraft are needed not only off the coast, but also to cover the fleet on the high seas, on the “here and now” principle, which basic aviation is not able to do, or it needs time for this.
          1. +1
            15 December 2013 20: 59
            Maybe we should leave Somalia, Vietnam and Venezuela alone for now? Ukraine and the Caucasus may be more important. Let's leave distant countries to the "hegemons of democracy", they will soon burst from overexertion...
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    3. +3
      15 December 2013 19: 21
      Quote: Per se.
      Apparently, this is what our “well-wishers” are trying to achieve.

      ...future wars, they say, will mostly be non-contact, network-centric. Maybe...
      If so, then they are already on their way. There is a battle for minds...
      And for now “they”, i.e. our opponents are prevailing in them...
      Look around, everywhere we see the same picture - we, our way of life, traditions, history, are being bullied. They try to lead you to false goals, false values, the so-called. democratic: tolerance, sodomytolerance...and so on and so forth.
      And including an exaggerated presentation of the superiorities of foreign military equipment.
      On the same side, kmk, is the promotion of the idea of ​​our inferiority without the presence of aircraft carriers.
      Jesuitical behavior and a subtle play on pseudo-patriotism...
      Look what they present to us:
      - They definitely need to be built, it’s prestige, a demonstration of the flag, a projection of power.
      - AUGs are impregnable, everything we have against them is worthless to them, at 1000 km they will not let our strike forces near...
      Stealthily pushing obvious but silent things means wasting a lot of money on something that is not needed in the near future. But, spending resources on “panties from Senloran” rather than on what is needed today and now...

      These people are among us. Look at them, the work of the “minus launchers” will begin in a minute and you will be able to recognize them by their nicknames... bully
      1. +1
        15 December 2013 19: 49
        I fully support you! I’m trying to reach out to the patriots who advocate for AUG, but it’s useless. The service life of many strategic nuclear forces facilities is ending, they need updating and modernization, and these unfortunate patriots demand an aircraft carrier! According to official estimates, the design and construction time is 10-12 years, but knowing our practice, it is 15-20. This is despite the fact that we don’t even have a doctrine for their use (if I’m wrong, please refute it).
        Our “friends” love to use the divide and conquer dogma - in this situation, dispersing forces, diverting funds from priority tasks for “star wars”, this is their goal.
        I ask aircraft carrier supporters to give an example of its hypothetical use. Well, as you see it. I'll read it with pleasure.
        And all you can hear is: “Hurray! Hurray!” And no specifics. I'm waiting.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. +4
        15 December 2013 20: 11
        Quote: Rus2012
        Stealthily pushing obvious but silent things means wasting a lot of money on something that is not needed in the near future.
        What else will we not need in the near future? The Chinese will not build a base on the Moon today, but today they are doing it. Let's deal only with commercial launches; tomorrow we will lag behind in space and in other directions. Weapons have no nationality or political affiliation, and their division into defensive and offensive is very arbitrary. An aircraft carrier is not a whim, not an attribute of fashion, it is a consequence of military evolution at sea, to which aviation came, and the carrier of which was the aircraft carrier. And, unlike flights to the Moon and Mars, we need aviation over the sea not in the vague future, but now. No one is calling for urinating with boiling water, competing with America in terms of the number of AUGs, or not complying with military development priorities, but voluntarily castrating the fleet due to a flawed understanding of “savings” is stupid.
        1. +1
          15 December 2013 20: 20
          Don’t you think that effective means of fighting aircraft carriers have already appeared, missile weapons for example? But a plane from another aircraft carrier really can’t get close to it (refute it if you can). So why spend money on something that is no longer relevant. China and India need aircraft carriers; they have territorial disagreements with less powerful neighbors, but what about us? Geopolitical rivals: USA, NATO, perhaps in the future China, how will you use aircraft carriers against them?
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. 0
          15 December 2013 20: 30
          Quote: Per se.
          What else will we not need in the near future?

          To win the 3rd World War, while in the network-centric phase, we don’t need AUGs in any form, don’t you think?
          And God forbid in the “hot phase” too...
          Now, later, when a world gendarme with heavy weapons, including AUG, is needed, perhaps...
          And for sure, then forces and means will be equipped to “humble” the recalcitrant under the auspices of the new UN (as they did against the Somali pirates) laughing
          And not before... And then, for sure, the Yankees, or whoever remains with them, will rush to transfer their remaining aircraft carriers for these needs. So maybe you won’t have to build anything...

          And as for the Moon, Mars, thank God, promising work and groundwork are being created... and for a long time...

          The same would be true for aircraft carriers, if only it had been done - without noise, dust, childish hysterics...
          But, no, they demand - right away and now and certainly 5 or more. And if it sounds “no”, then you are an enemy, an unpatriot, and finally a flawed loser...
          But everything is exactly the opposite...
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          3. +5
            15 December 2013 21: 36
            Quote: Rus2012
            To win the 3rd World War, while in the network-centric phase, we don’t need AUGs in any form, don’t you think?
            I can't find it. For example, the border must always be protected, for this there are border guards; the fact that at the outbreak of war they will not be needed does not mean that there is no need to spend money on improving the border in peacetime. This seems obvious and indisputable, but as soon as it comes to the invisible “border” of national interests, a conversation begins about the uselessness of such a class of ships as aircraft carriers. Well, okay, here we are talking about attempts to convince them to build squadrons of battleships, aircraft carriers, like destroyers, submarines, all the significant fleets of the world are being built or want to have. What is the problem? Have you been coded, if an aircraft carrier, then a “world gendarme”? We are not Mongolia, which does not need a fleet, and not Honduras, which has enough patrol boats. Russia needs a fleet and needs a strong fleet, that is, a full-fledged one, surface and underwater, from all classes of modern ships. And there is no need to lie, we are not talking about “5 or more” aircraft carriers now. This is a prospect, a possible prospect of a strong Russia. If you do not see the revival of the country, you are going to beg forever and save on everything, then, really, can we talk about some kind of patriotism here? And, the Third World War will never begin if Russia is strong enough, not only in the nuclear triad. If a global nuclear war happens, not only aircraft carriers may not be needed, but all equipment and soldiers in general.
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. +3
              15 December 2013 21: 58
              Sergey, with all due respect to your opinion, I still disagree. The army rests on the economic capabilities of the state; more precisely, the state can maintain such an army and navy that the economy can support.
              I’ll give you an example, if you don’t remember: at the beginning of the 90s, the USSR Navy had 4 aircraft-carrying cruisers, cities of heroes... Where are they? But they were not as bad as they now believe; in addition to aircraft, they carried missile weapons. Well, the state could not support them during a period of economic chaos. And even if we had full-fledged aircraft carriers at that time, they would still not have been used, would have rotted, or would have been sold.
              The fact that we survived as an independent state at that time is a merit of the strategic nuclear forces; they feared us because of them. But now their service life is coming to an end, they are extending it + new models are being put into operation, which requires large expenses. But the situation in the economy is not brilliant, and in my opinion, in the recent speeches of the president and prime minister, no significant improvement is expected in the near future. Therefore, it is necessary to concentrate resources on strengthening strategic potential, and not chase the mythical “crane”, which, with all due respect, no one dares to call a strategic weapon.
              Russia will be alive as long as it has adequate strategic nuclear forces, and the presence or absence of one or even five aircraft carriers will not affect this in any way, and diverting forces from modernizing strategic nuclear forces to “castles in the air” is McCain’s dream...
              1. +1
                16 December 2013 07: 22
                Quote: maxcor1974
                I’ll give you an example, if you don’t remember: at the beginning of the 90s, the USSR Navy had 4 aircraft-carrying cruisers, cities of heroes... Where are they? But they weren't so bad
                This is how I will answer you, Maxim, here. According to various estimates, we lost up to 85% of our fleet, this pogrom is not even comparable to Tsushima, and, perhaps, after the First World War and the Civil War, we had more ships surviving in percentage terms. This is not normal, just as it is not normal to live focusing only on this, without rebirth. The fact that we have survived as an independent state is due, first of all, to our scientific and technical potential, which made it possible to have these strategic nuclear forces, as well as a strong army, which did not instantly weaken by abandoning its weapons. You rely on nuclear deterrence, but life does not stand still, weapons and tactics change. Georgia knew about Russian strategic nuclear forces when it shot our peacekeepers in Tskhinvali; it was not nuclear weapons that stopped that aggression, but our sailors, infantrymen, paratroopers and pilots. The Chinese leadership knew about the powerful strategic nuclear forces of the USSR when the events at Damansky occurred in 1969. Let me draw your attention once again, no one is now calling for you to jump out of your pants and rush to build squadrons of aircraft carriers, as you will not understand! We are talking about the preservation and development of scientific and technical potential, without which we may lose the reproduction of Soviet achievements, let alone create new ones, about the harmonious development of our armed forces, and not just strategic nuclear forces.
              2. +1
                16 December 2013 15: 39
                Forces cannot be diverted from modernizing strategic nuclear forces! But it is necessary to build shipyards for the construction of large-tonnage civil ships... And this project should be financed not only by the state, but also, first and foremost, by business. It is desirable that there be profit... The state should help in every possible way the development of this project, even to the point of creating a special one. technical schools and other educational institutions for this project... At the same time, it is necessary to calculate the option of possible construction at these facilities and military orders, up to an aircraft carrier...
            3. +3
              15 December 2013 23: 14
              Quote: Per se.
              If you do not see the revival of the country, you are going to beg forever and save on everything

              ...I don’t know what you’re doing, dear opponent, but I’ve been in the defense sector since Soviet times. I’ve seen all sorts of things, so I think you spoke out of place and at the wrong time!
              Quote: Per se.
              World War III will never start

              ...she is already on her way, alas, and you need to be blindly arrogant or imagine the 5th column, lulling that everything is in order and continue to sleep, dear ones...
              1. 0
                16 December 2013 07: 49
                Quote: Rus2012
                it is already coming, alas, and you need to be blindly arrogant or imagine the 5th column, lulling that everything is in order and continue to sleep, dear ones...
                That’s right, it’s coming, but it’s not nuclear yet. I don’t want to repeat what has already been said, you contradict yourself when you talk about the “5th column, lulling that everything is in order.” It’s not in order, the army and navy are being destroyed, we are losing qualified personnel, experience and technical capabilities. Relying on strategic nuclear forces alone is vicious and erroneous, as is focusing on endless difficult times, without further prospects for development and strengthening. We paid too much to have a fleet, we spent a lot of time and effort until we learned how to build various modern ships, all this is easy to lose, but after that it will be difficult or impossible to revive. It doesn’t matter what I or you think, but what matters is what public opinion is shaping up, what political decisions will be made. You admit that an information war is going on, and we can lose it again. They will recommend a lot of things to us here as “unnecessary”, under the most compassionate pretexts.
    4. Fortnite
      0
      19 December 2013 15: 34
      ++ drinks
      Well, here's to the revival!!!
  56. 0
    15 December 2013 19: 06
    Quote: lonely
    Quote: sledgehammer102
    Sorry for arrogance


    there is no need to apologize. If all this is done, then the money was really spent in vain. this is a huge job. The Olympics will end, and this will remain for the common people. It’s still better than pulling these 80% out of the country and appropriating hi

    Quote: lonely
    Quote: sledgehammer102
    Sorry for arrogance


    there is no need to apologize. If all this is done, then the money was really spent in vain. this is a huge job. The Olympics will end, and this will remain for the common people. It’s still better than pulling these 80% out of the country and appropriating hi

    - Are you sure that everything will remain for the common people? This is no longer the USSR.
    1. 0
      15 December 2013 19: 36
      Quote: NSG42
      - Are you sure that everything will remain for the common people? This is no longer the USSR.


      Where will the railway road, the train station, and thousands of kilometers of infrastructure disappear? sewer???
  57. 0
    15 December 2013 19: 58
    "Where will the sewer go?"
    This is a difficult question, such a question can easily kill you! :-)
  58. amp
    amp
    +1
    15 December 2013 20: 18
    Aircraft carriers are expensive toys and floating coffins.
  59. sxn278619
    +1
    15 December 2013 21: 19
    50% of pensions and 25% of public sector salaries are paid from the budget from oil and gas revenues. There is a global crisis in the yard, tomorrow oil will drop to $80.
    What kind of aircraft carriers are they talking about here? Almost according to Gogol.
  60. +2
    15 December 2013 21: 31
    Beautiful, of course... but still unattainable
  61. karavay1982
    +2
    16 December 2013 00: 03
    Boiling up!
    Please answer me a number of questions about an aircraft carrier for Russia.
    Political plane.
    Why does Russia need an aircraft carrier in terms of foreign policy?
    Russia does not spread democracy around the world, Russia has no colonies, no friends whom we must help and do not have common borders (we screwed up Yugoslavia), no economic claims against other states and which must be intimidated.
    Just don’t talk about WAS greatness and the title of superpower.
    No offense. Russia cannot “keep” its closest neighbors in its sphere of influence, with whom it has developed various ties.
    To protect the Arctic shelf or to scare Japanese poachers near the Kuril Islands - for this Russia needs aircraft carriers?!
    Who will Russia use aircraft carriers against? Against terrorists, right?!
    It’s somehow chic to chase militants in the North Caucasus using planes from an aircraft carrier or Somali pirates.
    The tasks seem too small for an aircraft carrier group?!
    And now without decoration.
    Southern direction - China, and the Taliban. The land border fight as much as you like, but millions of Chinese or Taliban will fit in.
    The southwestern direction - Turkey - the Black Sea - it’s easier to get hit from the shore here, as they say.
    Western - NATO and there is a land border or we will sail to bomb England - somehow inadequate. The same thing is easier from the shore.
    And the most delicious USA. Do you naively believe that if, God forbid, a military conflict arises, then we will fight them with conventional weapons?! The Americans will use nuclear weapons without hesitation, but I’m not sure about us. And where will the collision of aircraft carrier groups take place? The aircraft carriers will arrive when troops are landing on the infected area. radiation on Russian soil, and whether they will come.
    And I met - an aircraft carrier group should help submarines break away from the ships of “probable opponents”.
    The question is, supposedly our submarine on the surface enters a patrol area, the captain shows the muzzle of the destroyer to the enemy and shouts, now an aircraft carrier will arrive and you won’t find us. What nonsense.
    This is from the field of politics.
    Now the economy.
    Let's start from the beginning - at the moment there is a ready-made project for the construction of an aircraft carrier. As far as I remember, no!!!
    How long will it take to draw it? But there’s no need for pompous words - they’ll say it and draw it. As I understand it, they will draw from 3 years to infinity, and the amount of drawing will amount to more than one BILLION rubles.
    The next thing is where to build. All shipyards are involved, either stop producing submarines and modernize the shipyard for an aircraft carrier (at the same time) or build a new one. As Russian practice shows, construction will take a long time and again the cost will be hundreds of billions. Well, we don’t know any other way.
    I don’t even know how long this will take.
    This has already been noted here - there are not so many carrier-based aviation pilots in Russia. They will also study for more than one year and this again means funding.
    Airplanes - they need to be built - time and money. And the idea that they can be taken from ground units smacks of insanity; there are already not enough modern machines there.
    About infrastructure (berths) the same time and billions of rubles.
    And for information, Russia is the longest country from west to east. And there are no high-speed railways in Russia.
    As a result, huge amounts of money will be spent and a long time will pass until Russia has at least one new aircraft carrier.
    Moreover, it is not a fact that it will work out, but the funds will not go offshore, while the fleet will not receive submarines, destroyers, frigates, etc.
    And your own respect. Look at Germany.
    Almost all European countries owe it money, it ranks 5th in terms of GDP (as of 2011), and yet it doesn’t even have an aircraft carrier in sight.
    But we need to hide our pride and keep quiet, otherwise the commissioning of a tugboat into the fleet will soon be an event!!!
    1. +3
      16 December 2013 07: 29
      Quote: karavay1982
      Russia does not spread democracy around the world, Russia has no colonies, no friends whom we should help

      One question - what are our ships doing in the Mediterranean?
      It’s amazing to me - outside the window, you know, life flows in all its splendor. For some reason you don’t want to see her point blank. IN FACT, we have a situation where Russia needed to represent its interests outside the coastal seas. And in order to do this, it was necessary to scrape together ships from all fleets. And all they could do was to indicate their presence, since it turned out to be impossible to project power with the existing composition. Where is the guarantee that tomorrow we will not have to carry out a projection of power in some region where the gentlemen democratizers will again decide to frolic?
      Quote: karavay1982
      To protect the Arctic shelf or to scare Japanese poachers near the Kuril Islands - for this Russia needs aircraft carriers?!

      You look at the Far East and calculate how many air bases need to be built there in order to more or less adequately cover from the threat of an AUG or AUS attack, at least in the most important places. Despite the fact that in the foreseeable future, not only Americans will have these same AUGs - the same Chinese, for example.
      I’m generally silent about the Kuril Islands. Without carrier aircraft there is simply nothing to cover them with.
      Quote: karavay1982
      And I met - an aircraft carrier group should help submarines break away from the ships of “probable opponents”.
      Question - supposedly our submarine is on the surface

      The answer is - try to go through a “layer cake” with the Northern Fleet - the exits to the Atlantic are covered in three layers by SOSUS, base aviation and naval forces. Just don’t talk about Atrina and Aport - firstly, the BEST of those we had went there, and secondly, there was no war at that time.
      Quote: karavay1982
      Let's start from the beginning - at the moment there is a ready-made project for the construction of an aircraft carrier. As far as I remember, no!!!

      EMNIP has been doing this since 2012
      Quote: karavay1982
      As I understand it, they will draw from 3 years to infinity, and the amount of drawing will amount to more than one BILLION rubles.

      It will take a long time to draw, because the aircraft carrier project is a little more complicated than a cake in a sandbox, yes.
      Quote: karavay1982
      The next thing is where to build. All shipyards are involved,

      What, instead of Vikramaditya, new submarines were laid down? laughing
      Quote: karavay1982
      As Russian practice shows, construction will take a long time and again the cost will be hundreds of billions. Well, we don’t know any other way.

      Who's to blame? :)
      1. +2
        16 December 2013 07: 29
        Quote: karavay1982
        This has already been noted here - there are not so many carrier-based aviation pilots in Russia

        Let's not build aircraft carriers - they will die out as a class.
        Quote: karavay1982
        Airplanes - they need to be built - time and money

        In about 15 years (the new aircraft carrier won’t be able to enter service anyway) to create an air group of aircraft for 40... hmm, the budget will be torn in half laughing
        Quote: karavay1982
        Moreover, it is not a fact that it will work out, but the funds will not go offshore, while the fleet will not receive submarines, destroyers, frigates, etc.

        One should not be opposed to one another; if desired, funds can be found for everything. And about offshores... USC didn’t seem to run away when contracts for new ships went through?
    2. +1
      16 December 2013 08: 32
      Quote: karavay1982
      Moreover, it is not a fact that it will work out, but the funds will not go offshore, while the fleet will not receive submarines, destroyers, frigates, etc.

      I support. Even if benefits, pensions, subsidies are cut, necessary projects are frozen now and an aircraft carrier is built. What's next? Go fishing on it? Even standing on a bank, it will require multimillion-dollar maintenance costs. To take this money away from the people, they are not so rich here. The aircraft carrier itself is a big target. An escort group is needed to protect him. Attaching more ships and submarines to it, which are already in short supply, is not very wise. As a result, you will only have to watch with sadness in your eyes as thoughtlessly spent billions rust against the wall. My friends, let’s be realistic.
    3. Fortnite
      0
      19 December 2013 15: 48
      Guard... Dear, before counting aircraft carriers, count how many grammatical errors you made in your post... You should not hide your pride, but your ignorance, however...
  62. +2
    16 December 2013 00: 42
    "sledgehammer102" Probably specifically for the sake of the Olympics, 80% of this money was invested in the infrastructure of the Krasnodar Territory and Sochi in particular.

    Why the Olympics
    1) tens of kilometers of sewer pipes
    2) over 367 km of road bridges and roads
    3) over 480 km of gas pipelines
    4) over 201 km of rail
    5) over 550 km of high voltage power lines
    6) 690 km of engineering networks
    7) power plant with a total capacity of 1,2 GW

    I live nearby!!! I don’t know about everything, but the asphalt (M4 highway) was resurfaced 5 (FIVE!!!!) times before my eyes, i.e. put it down and tore it down. This is despite the fact that I work a shift and am at home only 3 months a year! THE OLYMPICS THE MOST GRAND CUT IN THE HISTORY OF RUSSIA!!!!!!
  63. kelevra
    +2
    16 December 2013 01: 11
    It’s a pity, of course, that we missed the opportunity at one time, but aircraft carriers are needed and this cannot be taken away! Perhaps not too many, but in the most key fleets, the Pacific and Northern, you need to have one each. It is likely that there are no shipyards to build such watercraft, which is even more depressing. But, there is an option to buy a couple of aircraft carriers from the same China. The option seems not bad to me!
  64. 0
    16 December 2013 08: 07
    aircraft carriers again. what a fucking hesitation...
    It is known that aircraft carriers are weapons of attack, not defense. And we have no one to attack. Neither in the southern latitudes, nor in the middle ones.

    That's why such a simple proposal never enters people's heads?
    1. +3
      16 December 2013 08: 23
      Quote: rpek32
      It is known that aircraft carriers are weapons of attack, not defense.

      Quote: rpek32
      That's why such a simple proposal never enters people's heads?

      Maybe because the very division of weapons into “weapons of attack” and “weapons of defense” is delusional by definition?

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