Military Review

The collapse of the USSR - a crime without a statute of limitations

241
The collapse of the USSR - a crime without a statute of limitations



The anniversary of the Bialowieza collusion is a good reason to remember what the liberals motivated the destruction of a great country.

There are a lot of liberal myths - during the years of perestroika and the years of the so-called “reforms,” they wrote as many of them as the ancient Greeks probably could not come up with over the centuries of development of their Ancient Greece. Moreover, it did not occur to any of them to invent legends defaming Hellas. But in the patriotic mythology of liberal mythology there is nothing - on the contrary, the composers of fairy tales and fables seem to be competing with each other, who will hurt more painfully the country in which most of them were born - the USSR.

This topic has unexpectedly acquired a special urgency now because of Ukrainian events. After all, anti-Soviet myths are pushing thousands of residents of the Square to hold a rally, not knowing for what reason.

Someone may say that much of what will be given by me in response to liberal tales is obvious to them. But the paradox is that what is obvious to people with a Soviet mentality, for some reason, sometimes seems like an incredible sacrifice to capitalist education and liberal propaganda. So, voluntarily or involuntarily, one sometimes has to explain it for granted.

Actually, I will begin an analysis of the hot five tales about the great, but unfortunately, destroyed in Belovezhskaya Pushcha (today, by the way, we are celebrating the anniversary of this sad event) of the Soviet Union just with the fact that no one in those years doubted . In any case, before the beginning of the processes named by MS Gorbachev perestroika, which resulted in the strongest blow of enemies was directed in this direction.

So, the liberal myth №1 - the USSR was a "prison of nations", there was no friendship between them.

If the Soviet Union was a prison, then many nations gladly served their time in it. The Soviet government, in particular, gave many peoples in the Far North an opportunity to survive altogether.

The peoples of Central Asia were literally transferred in time from the Middle Ages into a completely industrial future. The whole country laughed at the funny adventures of Comrade Sukhov with the harem of Abdullah, and meanwhile, there was not enough ridiculous. The disenfranchisement of women, illiteracy, double oppression — local feudal lords and royal rulers — that is Turkestan before the revolution. And unfortunately, now in many respects there is a rollback in a number of republics to that distant and not very distant past.

Supposedly the occupied Baltic states, which they don’t like to remember, voluntarily became part of the USSR. Someone will say that not without coercion - not without it. But here Finland, for example, did not want to be part of it and did not enter, so historically the ways-roads are not as simple as many people think. In the USSR, the Baltic republics acquired industry. Everyone remembers the RAF, Dzintars and many other brands, as they would say now.

And the impoverished Moldavia, being in the “prison of nations”, was a prosperous republic, no matter how surprising it may seem to someone now. The fact is that for many years the “main occupier” worked there - personally, dear Leonid Ilyich Brezhnev himself.

Well, prosperity of the Caucasian republics. languishing, ostensibly in the dungeons of the empire, envied by all. Caucasian resorts are the dream of every Soviet vacationer.

The most happy went to the Crimea, presented only once in stories humanity "metropolis" (Russia) "colony" (Ukraine) as a sign of eternal friendship. Precisely her want to break up some associations (or rather, hallucinations) with the European Union. However, nothing will come of it - all the peoples of the USSR remember that great friendship of the peoples that was then.

Liberal myth №2 - The USSR was a colossus on feet of clay, whose leadership allowed itself to be drawn into an arms race, which led to the collapse of 1991.

In the arms race, the parties were not originally in an equal situation. In the 1946 year, when after the speech of Winston W. Churchill in Fulton, the Cold War began, our country literally lay in ruins. 27 of millions of victims, many thousands of cities and villages in the European part wiped out from the face of the earth, uncountable material losses - that was the price of victory in World War II, but otherwise we would have lost it and the whole world would have been struck by the brown plague of Nazism .

The United Kingdom, of course, also suffered from the German bombing, but the scale of the losses was incommensurable. As for the USA, they, as you know, fought, with the exception of the Hawaiian Islands, on foreign territory.

Nevertheless, the bloodless USSR had no other choice than to create its own nuclear missile shield under the most difficult conditions, which was done. Otherwise, we would just be destroyed. Americans in the Soviet years, declassified their plans. In their directive from 14 December 1945, when the battlefields, where the Russians and Americans fought together against the Nazi Nazis, had not cooled, the atomic bombing of the Soviet cities 20, including Moscow and Leningrad with all the inhabitants, their spiritual and historical monuments, was already planned.

So the USSR was forced against the will of its own to enter the cold war, which more than once offered to end. All those who lived in the Soviet era remember how L.I. Brezhnev mumbled endlessly about detente, peaceful coexistence, the need for general disarmament. The response of the United States and NATO as a whole became more and more new rounds of the arms race.

The ruinous arms race, of course, played a role in the destruction of the Soviet Union, but its ill-considered actions by M.S. Gorbachev and his entourage with the so-called restructuring.

Liberal Myth No. XXUMX - USSR collapsed on its own, in Belovezhskaya Pushcha they just stated his political death

Of course, one could simply recall V. Mayakovsky, who believed that the stars light up, if it is necessary for someone, and if they are extinguished, then there definitely wasn’t without someone's ill will. The USSR was not just a star, but a whole socialist galaxy.

In 1985, when Gorbachev came to power, the situation in the Soviet Union was not two. but five orders of magnitude more stable than now in the post-Soviet space. Despite economic difficulties and a slowdown (not a crisis, but a slowdown in the pace of development), the country was on the rise. And here the reformist itch began - the Gorbachevs decided to change what worked perfectly in the streamlined national economy. The result is an economic crisis. Gorbachevites launched a rash anti-alcohol campaign. The result is dissatisfaction with the widest sections of the population. Finally, under the guise of glasnost, unrestrained anti-Soviet agitation in the media began. The result is a spat upon the country's history, the loss by many people of faith in socialism.

And so unshakable, it would seem, as the Sphinx, the country reeled. Inter-ethnic unrest began, separatists of all stripes raised their heads. Finally, inside the CPSU is no longer hidden, but the former zealots of communism have directly identified themselves as ardent opponents of everything Soviet and socialist.

But the apotheosis of betrayal is the signing of the very Belovezhsk agreements. Yeltsin and Shushkevich, who did this, not only violated the country's Constitution, but also the results of the referendum. Kravchuk could hide behind the results of the repeated referendum on the territory of Ukraine. Although the big question is why it should have been carried out just six months after the All-Union.

Liberal myth №4 - the Soviet people did not protest against the destruction of the USSR in Belovezhskaya Pushcha

As for the fact that people almost indifferently perceived the death of their homeland - this, of course, to put it mildly, is not true. 17 March 1992, on the anniversary of the referendum on the preservation of the Union, on Manezh Square in Moscow gathered the so-called "National Assembly" - a rally organized by the communist and patriotic movements. A lot more people came to him than to modern liberal actions, although less so than before B.N. Yeltsin.

Often there were the same people: many of them changed their attitudes to sharply negative ones in just a year. There were two reasons for this: “shock therapy” in the economy and the signing of unconstitutional Belovezhsk agreements.

So people expressed their protest against the violation of their will in a referendum on one of the most popular actions in the history of Russia. And how could they not express it if the collapse of the USSR caused three wars on its territory at once - in Nagorno-Karabakh, in Transnistria and Abkhazia ?! Another thing is that the liberal propagandists, at first, hardly noticed the thousand-year-old “National Chamber”, calling the action “red-brown”, and then simply “forgotten” about it. And so a fairy tale was born about a people who silently contemplated how they destroyed their homeland.

Were those who welcomed the breakup of a great country? Unfortunately yes. Then the enemies of our Motherland triumphed, who achieved their goal - the country of the Soviets was destroyed. However, the aspiration of peoples to unity, no boundaries is not an obstacle. Sooner or later, the fraternal alliance in one form or another will be restored.

Liberal Myth No. XXUMX - It is better for Russia to live separately from the former fraternal republics and to all is better in the Commonwealth of Independent States than in one "communal apartment" of the USSR

It is this, if I may say so, argument, along with the supposedly original lack of viability, that the opponents of the Soviet Union put forward, justifying the signatories of the Belovezhskaya agreements. Unfortunately, it really seemed to many at that time that it would be beneficial for Russia to remain alone, because after a divorce from the national republics, the main reserves of oil, gas and many other mineral resources remained precisely on Russian territory. As for the CIS, it seemed to other credulous (especially since the masters of the masters of television arts so inspired) that this is nothing more than a change of sign, the rebranding of the USSR, so to speak.

In reality, everything turned out to be completely different. Over the years, the CIS has become an increasingly ephemeral community, eventually becoming only a sign that is very rarely remembered. The participants of the Commonwealth themselves unwittingly proved its virtuality, offering outside its framework other integration options, first of all, the Customs Union, the Eurasian, the CSTO.

Lost from the death of the Soviet Union all the republics, including Russia. After all, the USSR controlled Baku oil and Turkmen gas, which would now make it even more confident to feel on the strategically important energy market. And how painful it was for the Russian economy to break up the collapse of generations of connections — it is even difficult to assess.

A stream of migrants poured into our country. And this is also a direct consequence of the collapse of the Soviet Union - people simply do not have work in their native places, so they are ready to sell their labor for pennies and live in inhuman conditions. As a result, the criminogenic situation worsens, and consequently, everyone loses. And therefore everyone is also interested in the revival of this union instead of the ephemeral CIS.

Most of the USSR?

I am almost on 100% sure that if a referendum on preserving the USSR was now held again, the majority of citizens of the Russian Federation, and many other former Soviet republics, would have spoken the same way as 17 in March 1991, that is, “Yes” . Not only the older and middle generations who remember the words of the Soviet anthem, “And the Red Banner of the Glorious Motherland, we will always be faithful!”, But also those who were born years and even decades after its destruction in Belovezhskaya Pushcha.

In the capitalist realities, boys and girls are more and more interested in the time when their parents were like them, and grandmothers and grandfathers, like now fathers and mothers. Why? Because many of them would also like to live in a society where there are no beggars and oligarchs, where murder is an emergency, and not an ordinary event in the criminal chronicle, where your country is respected and hoped for all over the world, where the cost of a ticket to the 5 institute cents, well, the most important thing is where the vast majority of people skillfully make friends without looking at each other’s material and social situation.
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http://www.km.ru/v-rossii/2013/12/08/istoriya-khkh-veka/727152-razval-sssr-prestuplenie-bez-sroka-davnosti
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  1. PSih2097
    PSih2097 9 December 2013 07: 10 New
    83
    The collapse of the USSR - a crime without a statute of limitations

    You can’t even imagine a punishment for this trinity of drunks, to ruin such a country ...
    Let the fight in hell be a larger frying pan and the devils in the shrew until the other two wait (Kravchuk with Shushkevich and humpback there to the heap). ...
    1. Canep
      Canep 9 December 2013 07: 20 New
      78
      About the fourth, or rather, the first Judah, they forgot about Gorbach. He ruined the country, and these three only put a bullet in this. 1000 years of life Gorbachev, only in special. jail for life, for treason.
      1. vladimirZ
        vladimirZ 9 December 2013 08: 22 New
        25
        It is necessary to add the USSR destroyed, except for the indicated Judas, we all lived in the Soviet Union with our indifference, our, to be honest, "hatred" of the communist past.
        Many thought that we would clean up, as they called "damned commies" and we will live perfectly - we will not work, everyone will be a director at their machine - "I want to work, but I want to roll Vanka," and gingerbread and jam will pour into our mouths.
        Did not work out. Removed Article 6 of the Constitution of the USSR
        The guiding and guiding force of Soviet society, the core of its political system, state and public organizations is the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. The CPSU exists for the people and serves the people.
        Armed with Marxist-Leninist teachings, the Communist Party determines the general outlook for the development of society, the line of internal and foreign policy of the USSR, directs the great creative activity of the Soviet people, and gives a systematic, scientifically substantiated character to its struggle for the victory of communism.
        All party organizations operate within the framework of the Constitution of the USSR.

        и the USSR crumbled without a backbone, which was the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU).
        1. Kazakh
          Kazakh 9 December 2013 09: 54 New
          24
          It is necessary to add the USSR destroyed, except for the indicated Judas, we all lived in the Soviet Union with our indifference, our, to be honest, our "hatred" for the communist past. Just don't need to instill in us a sense of guilt if the fraudster deceived the victim of her "fault" only credulity and we were deceived by what and as you know very well. And we do not need to blame for this, the scammers do not blame, but quietly shift all the blame on us
          1. vladimirZ
            vladimirZ 9 December 2013 12: 18 New
            0
            Kazakh RU
            ... But we don't need to instill a sense of guilt here if the fraudster deceived the victim of her "guilt" only in gullibility and we were deceived with what and as you know very well ...


            Who has deceived you so naive?
            What did you not understand that instead of organized power and system, anarchy and the power of organized bandits and thieves would come?
            They didn’t understand that interethnic conflicts would flare up everywhere and blood would be shed, the state would fall apart?

            Yes, no.
            Just indifference. On the principle: what can I do and without my participation everything will be resolved, somehow.
            In the same way as at the present time in the election of the President, State Duma, governors and mayors and other elected bodies.
            More than half of Russia's population does not want to vote, and therefore opponents of the people climb into power and are elected by the bribed minority.
            Until we understand that our power depends on us and we decide the fate of our country, nothing will change.
            1. Sandov
              Sandov 9 December 2013 15: 02 New
              +4
              Quote: vladimirZ
              Who has deceived you so naive?
              What did you not understand that instead of organized power and system, anarchy and the power of organized bandits and thieves would come?
              They didn’t understand that interethnic conflicts would flare up everywhere and blood would be shed, the state would fall apart?
              Yes, no.
              Just indifference. On the principle: what can I do and without my participation everything will be resolved, somehow.
              In the same way as at the present time in the election of the President, State Duma, governors and mayors and other elected bodies.
              More than half of Russia's population does not want to vote, and therefore opponents of the people climb into power and are elected by the bribed minority.
              Until we understand that our power depends on us and we decide the fate of our country, nothing will change.

              Well, you can’t do that either. There were drawbacks to the advice. It was just that instead of collapse it was necessary to get rid of them systematically. EBN with humps could not wait, they accelerated the process. To judge these ignoramuses.
            2. Starina_hank
              Starina_hank 9 December 2013 21: 17 New
              +2
              Well, we get it, and the rhetorical question: "What to do?"
            3. Oboz
              Oboz 15 December 2013 17: 10 New
              0
              ... But we don't need to instill a sense of guilt here if the fraudster deceived the victim of her "guilt" only in gullibility and we were deceived with what and as you know very well ...
            4. The comment was deleted.
          2. Ivan.
            Ivan. 9 December 2013 16: 43 New
            +6
            Quote: Kazakh
            It is necessary to add the USSR destroyed, except for the indicated Judas, we all lived in the Soviet Union with our indifference, our, to be honest, our "hatred" of the communist past

            Well, let's say that hatred is not ours, but imposed on us by presenting an alternative rather than real story and turning facts from head to foot, we still do not have a clear answer to many questions of the past and the amount of lies about it has always gone through the roof.
            At the time of the collapse, few people understood what was happening, even among the protesters. Yes, and "trust" the party leading to a brighter future was taught from kindergarten. So, firstly and secondly, this is a betrayal of the authorities.
            So both then and now we look like a herd that graze (the media) and have always been under control, although not completely. In general, there are no easy ways to freedom, and last but not least, it is a revolution, you need to learn to think independently and not to chew gum for SMD.
            1. Stanislas
              Stanislas 15 December 2013 18: 50 New
              0
              Quote: Ivan.
              Well, let's say that hatred is not ours, but imposed on us by presenting an alternative rather than real story and turning facts from head to foot, we still do not have a clear answer to many questions of the past and the amount of lies about it has always gone through the roof.

              "It was less necessary to watch TV and read the Komsomol with a twinkle, then there would not be such an epic devastation" (FF Preobrazhensky).
          3. CALL.
            CALL. 10 December 2013 01: 57 New
            +6
            I agree. This is an old scam. The perpetrator always blames the victim - "it is her own fault" in order to justify herself. De-Sovietization and de-Stalinization are just a screen under the cover of which they are robbing Russia. Remember: - "Divide and Conquer"?
        2. SPLV
          SPLV 9 December 2013 11: 44 New
          20
          The party is a party, and it was destroyed by the one who allowed the possibility of doubting the greatness of the Motherland. The one who allowed the provocateurs to belittle the role of his own country in history. The one who made heroes out of thieves. The one who went to bow to other powers, showing his own weakness of spirit. Repentance before the whole world became a crime. Before removing the litter from the hut, everyone knew about it, but they were afraid to utter a word. And Gorbachev showed the whole world that we can be weak, which the enemies around us did not take advantage of. Not a single athlete flaunts his injuries before the fight, and our ruler clearly showed all the sore spots: "hit here so that it will hurt more!" Masochism on a national scale led to what we have. And for Gorbachev, I would abolish the moratorium on the death penalty.
          1. nov_tech.vrn
            nov_tech.vrn 9 December 2013 13: 33 New
            +9
            no, I would put Gorbachev in a cage and put him on life’s red square for life imprisonment, and let everyone could spit in his eyes, and let him live forever
            1. A. Yaga
              A. Yaga 14 December 2013 17: 40 New
              0
              Quote: nov_tech.vrn
              no, I would put Gorbachev in a cage and put him on life’s red square for life imprisonment, and let everyone could spit in his eyes, and let him live forever

              And I like it better
        3. alexdol
          alexdol 9 December 2013 12: 21 New
          27
          Canep SU "They forgot about the fourth, or rather the first Judas, about Gorbach."
          ---------------------------------------------------------------------
          Can you really forget him ?! Especially when some of the current Russian authorities managed to present him with the Order of St. Andrew the First-Called for his 80th anniversary! I can’t regard it otherwise as a SPIT in the face of all normal people! So what? But nothing ... This "little bear" is still in power and continues the work of "GORBI" on the collapse of now RUSSIA ...

          vladimirZ RU "to be honest," hatred "for the communist past."
          ---------------------------------------------------------------
          I don’t remember that I had a special hatred for the then system, even though I’m already 61 years old! Yes, I didn't like a lot, but I was not going to destroy that system! Of course, today something has changed in my views on the past. First of all, this is the attitude towards its first leaders, Lenin and Stalin. I must say right away that I was somehow neutral towards Stalin, but Lenin stood on my pedestal! But today the leader- Lenin has collapsed from this pedestal! This was the last bastion. But Joseph STALIN ascended this pedestal !!! Perhaps this is the only leader of the USSR who is worthy of RESPECT! I have noticed this tendency for a long time: the more someone is scolded, the more likely it is that it’s just the opposite! There are many historical examples. Here we can talk about the role of the PERSONALITY in history, but the role of the party has nothing to do with it! After all, look who made the coup? All former and not just privates ... The same g.i.d. a "kravchuv" - the first president of the Independent was the ideologist of the party ... The fish, as everyone knows, rots from the head ... They all climbed there. for career reasons. So it was yesterday and so, unfortunately, it will probably be TOMORROW ...
          1. Canep
            Canep 9 December 2013 13: 11 New
            10
            Quote: alexdol
            But today the leader, Lenin, has collapsed from this pedestal! This was the last bastion. But Joseph STALIN ascended to this pedestal !!!

            I have the same.
            1. Current 72
              Current 72 10 December 2013 02: 38 New
              +5
              You forget one essential detail: there would not be LENIN, who started a revolution in the minds of workers and peasants, there would be no STALIN, who would continue and strengthen those ideas that were laid down by LENIN. So in my opinion, both LENIN and STALIN are giants in our lives, and I am afraid that such giants will not appear soon.
              1. alexdol
                alexdol 10 December 2013 04: 30 New
                0
                Tok 72 BY "there would be no LENIN, who started the revolution in the minds of the workers and peasants, there would be no STALIN, who continued and strengthened the ideas that LENIN laid down."
                -------------------------------------------------- -----------------
                You know, I thought so too eight years ago! Even more, I thought that if Lenin had lived longer, we would have achieved MUCH great success, but it turned out that I was mistaken! Today I figured out a little about this issue and therefore said that for me Lenin fell off the pedestal! Then someone considered it in the literal sense and urged not to destroy the monuments, apparently the person did not understand everything. And I recommend that you familiarize yourself with the books by Yuri Kozenkov of the series "The Calvary of Russia! You will find a lot of interesting things for yourself in them. And Kozenkov himself seems to have been killed, so draw your conclusions after that ... So for me only STALIN remained a giant, and if not for him , then you and I today just might not be!
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. Millibyte
                  Millibyte 14 December 2013 16: 00 New
                  0
                  Yuri Kozenkov is a well-known anti-Semite. All his books are imbued with terry "Zhidomason" conspiracies against poor Russia.
                  And under the guidance of V.I. Lenin, the Bolsheviks took power in Russia. If there had been no Lenin, there would have been no USSR!
          2. Valkyrie
            Valkyrie 9 December 2013 13: 42 New
            25
            Alexander! I have exactly the same opinion! I am younger than you, but I remember very well that happy childhood, carefree youth, confidence in the future that we had in Soviet times. And very clearly only now I understand what Stalin was for our country. All that former power of the USSR became possible at that time thanks to the role of his personality, wise, strong and far-sighted personality.
            1. alexdol
              alexdol 9 December 2013 16: 53 New
              +6
              Valkyrie SU "Alexander! I have exactly the same opinion! I am younger than you,"
              -------------------------------------------------- ----------------
              Apparently this comment is relevant to me! Therefore, I will answer. I am always PLEASANT to realize that no PROMOTION can cloud the reason of THOUGHT people, especially this applies to the YOUNG generation! Thank you Valkyrie for that! Here I will give such links to my poems about Stalin: http://www.stihi.ru/2010/12/23/3067 and the need to fight for the minds of young people: http://www.stihi.ru/2009/08/02 / 1254
              1. Jogan-xnumx
                Jogan-xnumx 9 December 2013 20: 17 New
                +9
                Quote: alexdol
                no propaganda can cloud the mind of THINKING people

                hi I am 49, but my opinion is similar to yours! Although, all the same, without the Lenin revolution there would have been no industrialization and victory of Stalin. I bring up my sons in the same spirit - patriotism towards the USSR. soldier
            2. Simon
              Simon 9 December 2013 22: 02 New
              +6
              When Stalin died, the whole country, the Soviet Union, was sobbing. But EBN died, Russia met this indifferently. Although liberals, they say that Stalin was a cruel monster, but the people respected him anyway and now respects him. No liberal has done as much for the country as Stalin did. Throughout the world, the developed capitalist states were afraid of him, and the peoples of the underdeveloped countries respected him.
          3. Cherdak
            Cherdak 9 December 2013 16: 24 New
            +7
            Quote: alexdol
            some of the current Russian government managed to present the Order of St. Andrew the First-Called for the 80th anniversary!


            Fisherman fisherman ...
            1. Simon
              Simon 9 December 2013 22: 06 New
              0
              Who decided to bend to the west?
          4. demel2
            demel2 9 December 2013 16: 59 New
            10
            Yes, they criticize Stalin, who are full of insignificance, who are nothing, can only lick well ... European and Washington hosts, look who scolds him, I do not even want to think about this scum.
          5. Rusich51
            Rusich51 9 December 2013 19: 12 New
            +6
            alexdol
            I would not ruin any monuments at all, let them stand for history. In Spain there is a monument to Franco.
            Yes, and hi stands, history lessons before my eyes.
          6. Stanislas
            Stanislas 15 December 2013 20: 10 New
            0
            Quote: alexdol
            But today the leader, Lenin, has collapsed from this pedestal! This was the last bastion. But Joseph STALIN ascended to this pedestal !!!

            A year in 88, maybe even earlier, in the magazine Moscow, which was then called "red-brown" along with Our Sovremennik, the attitude of Trotsky and Lenin to Russia was called into question. What a howl then rose in the left press: "not a step back in 37 years!" mixed with spitting on our Afghans. GDP recently for the first time from a high rostrum right-left in place. We called the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, and then the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, "leftists". SPS - with Ryzhim Kh. Declared "right". Everything was exactly the opposite. These are thimblers - "twist and twist". The left - Yakovlev and others like him, who "climbed there because of career considerations," wanted to merge Russia into Western capital in almost the same way as Lenin and Trotsky once wanted to light the fire of the world revolution with it and establish global communism. Only Yeltsinoids poured it into the global market for money. Now it is necessary to create a truly right-wing party, let the EPs be centrists.
        4. Tartary
          Tartary 9 December 2013 12: 27 New
          +8
          Quote: vladimirZ
          It is necessary to add the USSR destroyed, except for the indicated Judas, we all lived in the Soviet Union with our indifference, our, to be honest, "hatred" of the communist past.
          Many thought that we would clean up, as they called "damned commies" and we will live perfectly - we will not work, everyone will be a director at their machine - "I want to work, but I want to roll Vanka," and gingerbread and jam will pour into our mouths.

          No need to add anything if you don’t know ... It's ridiculous straight ...
          Someone who spoke about Kummunyak? Someone who hated them?
          The stupidity said by someone and not double-checked, gives rise to the further spread of this stupidity, then the learned stupidity gives rise to action. sometimes creepy and not at all necessary ...
          Do not read the works of any liberal ghouls, for example, Novodvorskaya ... and others like her at night ...
          Do not read any Rezunov-Solzhenitsyn ... And do not advise anyone to do this ...

          And there will be happiness!
        5. The comment was deleted.
        6. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 13: 39 New
          +4
          Quote: vladimirZ
          and the USSR crumbled without a backbone, which was the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU).

          whether someone likes it or not, but Russia is an imperial type of country and as soon as the empire’s symbol is destroyed the country is torn by centrifugal forces, it was like this at 17, so it happened at 91, only at 91 no one was able to create a new Empire
        7. CTEPX
          CTEPX 9 December 2013 13: 55 New
          +6
          Quote: vladimirZ
          Removed Article 6 of the Constitution of the USSR

          Quote: vladimirZ
          and the USSR crumbled

          There is a version that the change in the Stalinist Constitution of 1936 in 1977 precisely in this part (the consolidation of the CPSU with a leading and guiding force) was the mine that exploded in 1991. This implies that in the early 70s, a part of the top leadership of the CPSU, having caught the Americans in the "lunar lies", entered into "commodity-money" relations with them, forming a class of underground millionaires. The 1977 Constitution enshrined the actual transition from the principles of socialism to the principles of state capitalism, and the presence of Article 6 allowed the traitors to do what they did)).
        8. Vlaleks48
          Vlaleks48 9 December 2013 21: 00 New
          +6
          Do not forget, dear one, that the Great State was destroyed and plundered precisely by "abortions" from this very party, the so-called "ridge".
          And the beginning of this was laid by the "maize" giver of the Crimea!
        9. Akuzenka
          Akuzenka 13 December 2013 23: 28 New
          +1
          Do not sing war songs, colleague! There was a referendum for the USSR - 94% - for it. And the liberals bought all one ruined.
        10. Nusret adigezalov
          Nusret adigezalov April 17 2019 18: 58 New
          0
          And for the vulgar MOST, the bead - the collapse of the Union - was just an imitative-compulsory "CHANGE OF MASKS in the theater of empty laughs". (We all saw THEN their faces and behavior! By the way, it is mainly they and their children NOW chorus "nostalgic" for the Soviet Union, picking up the OLD and outdated MASKS THROWN by them THEN [but already too torn]). ...
      2. yan
        yan 9 December 2013 08: 33 New
        26
        Khrushchev is also the fifth, this was the starting point in the process, and these last ones completed what was begun
      3. demon184
        demon184 9 December 2013 08: 57 New
        13
        Together, these stsuki were muddied, it was a conspiracy not without the participation of foreign intelligence services
        1. Normal
          Normal 9 December 2013 09: 22 New
          12
          Quote: demon184
          Together, these stsuki muttered,

          And the daily, routine work on the collapse of the country and the transition from socialism to "friendly", oligarchic-special service capitalism was carried out by the leaders and representatives of a glorious organization called to stand, so to speak, on guard - the KGB. I will never believe what happened without them.
          1. seller trucks
            seller trucks 9 December 2013 10: 02 New
            41
            Everyone, have a nice day, on the table?





            1. yan
              yan 9 December 2013 10: 26 New
              +8
              Thanks for the photo selection, a quivering feeling though ...
            2. Valkyrie
              Valkyrie 9 December 2013 13: 48 New
              17
              It is impossible to look at these pictures without tears now. Then they thought that it would always be so.
              1. Tartary
                Tartary 9 December 2013 16: 26 New
                +7
                Quote: Valkyrie
                It is impossible to look at these pictures without tears now. Then they thought that it would always be so.


                The same reaction ... But there are propagandists who are trying to tell me / you something that was not there? What kind of people are these Gamno (Granto) food? Do not feed bread, let shit be thrown around, and even in such topics where it is definitely "not in the tooth with a foot" ... request
                1. Yarosvet
                  Yarosvet 9 December 2013 16: 59 New
                  +6
                  Quote: Tartary
                  But there are propagandists

                  Yeah - are
      4. Vasia kruger
        Vasia kruger 9 December 2013 11: 01 New
        +8
        What's the point? This one received so little for his betrayal. Others were making capital while collapsing, and it was not only the country that was profiled ... it was EVERYTHING profiled at all.

        And that makes it even sadder. If the country was destroyed by a cynical thief ... and it was destroyed by complete insignificance.

        Although all of them in hell are especially hot pans cooked.
      5. GDP
        GDP 9 December 2013 11: 52 New
        22
        Gorbachev and Yeltsin are traitors which Russia has not had for its thousand-year history. Russia has never gone under the hammer, by the will of a microscopic bunch of Judas ... In geopolitical terms, even Hitler did less harm to our country, for the simple reason that it was a clear enemy that could be fought ...
      6. starshina78
        starshina78 9 December 2013 12: 37 New
        20
        Before the signing of the Belovezhskaya Accord, if anyone does not remember, a referendum was held on the preservation of the USSR, and the signing of the "Belovezhskaya Agreement", or, more simply, a conspiracy to destroy the USSR, was held after the Referendum, at which most of the inhabitants of the USSR spoke in favor of preserving the USSR. It turns out that these three renegades, political prostitutes, went against popular opinion. With great regret, Yeltsin has already passed away, Shushkevich and Kravchuk are in good health, and it is a pity that it is impossible to bring them to court in order to convict them. I, yes, I think many in Russia, are enraged that the memory of Yeltsin is being perpetuated, they call him the name of the library and the street, and not vice versa, that is, his name should only sound like the name of a renegade, traitor and destroyer of the Motherland, his name should disappear from streets of our cities. The liberals like him, so let them dig him up in the Novodevichy cemetery and bury him in Rublevka and pray for him there. And Gorbachev, while he is alive, should be put on trial, instead of awarding him with the highest order of Russia.
      7. Max_Bauder
        Max_Bauder 9 December 2013 13: 36 New
        27
        There is such a good joke in the subject that applies to almost any post-Soviet country:

        A foreign journalist in Ukraine shares with a local colleague:
        You have such a politically correct and tolerant country, I wonder how can all your deputies be gay?
        “Why did you decide that?” - the colleague asks.
        - Well, with that, no matter what kind of politician I asked the ordinary population, everyone starts a conversation with the words:
        - Ah, this one, p ... doras
        1. Sandov
          Sandov 10 December 2013 18: 12 New
          +1
          Quote: Max_Bauder
          A foreign journalist in Ukraine shares with a local colleague:
          You have such a politically correct and tolerant country, I wonder how can all your deputies be gay?
          “Why did you decide that?” - the colleague asks.
          - Well, with that, no matter what kind of politician I asked the ordinary population, everyone starts a conversation with the words:
          - Ah, this one, p ... doras

          wassat Cool joke. +
      8. avdkrd
        avdkrd 9 December 2013 14: 24 New
        +7
        Quote: Canep
        1000 years of life Gorbachev, only in special. jail for life, for treason Rodin

        of course there is a point in this, but I would personally like to spit on his grave, but I won’t live as much ...... sad
      9. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 9 December 2013 17: 44 New
        18
        when will the "order" be on the neck? am
      10. saxa2103
        saxa2103 9 December 2013 18: 53 New
        +5
        quote from the last watch—— Mr ... I'm not to blame for anything! We all mourn the death of Victor! Mr. ... comrade!

        He said the last word in Russian. What old action movie did he remember from?

        - What's wrong with you? - Now I'm already confused. He came closer to him. Am I really lucky, and on the move I came across a man who knows something, who is involved in the murder? Otherwise, why such a panic?

        - Do not kill me, I am not guilty of anything! - blurted out the guy. His skin was now whiter than makeup. - Comrade! Satellite, vodka, restructuring! Gorbachev!

        “That’s for the last word in Russia they can certainly be killed,” I muttered and reached into my pocket for cigarettes.
      11. AVV
        AVV 13 December 2013 00: 08 New
        +1
        Drive him from Russia to foggy Albion, where he spends his anniversaries !!!
      12. Nusret adigezalov
        Nusret adigezalov April 17 2019 18: 55 New
        0
        Collapse of the Union. How could this happen? Where did the cunning "masters of the Empire" and their powerful special services look? ...

        Truth (truth) is that "GOTH nonsense", which BETTER explains the observed (SEND) reality.

        Everything was banal simple and off.
        The "gods" of the Soviet empire were clearly shown that in the event of a nuclear war, Russian missiles would no longer reach America (perhaps one in a thousand), because of the obviously better American missile defense system (which they secretly developed despite the "agreements")! More cunning Americans have thrown us all. I had to "negotiate" the terms of the "governorship". Well, what can you do? Who could have known in advance? Even if I knew. One must be able to lose (without the "suffering breakdown of honesty"). You need to choose the LESS OF LOSSES correctly. ... It is simply not necessary to exaggerate the capabilities of the "central tsar" and belittle "to @ yf" local "boyars". Moreover, all of them (these "scoundrels of life" who have succeeded in politics) have been accustomed from childhood to "humiliate themselves" before the stronger (superior) and "bark" at the weaker (lower). Unfortunately for moral people, this is the law of real struggle and success in life in this selfish hypocritical World. It is we, a morally deceived honest bead, who suffer because of such things, but they DO NOT.
        Local separatists (direct "destroyers of the Union") were sponsored by the same impudent overseas organizers of "orange revolutions" and "accelerators of the fall of the Evil Empires"!
        The "democratic" Gorb @ chev (as a "political toastmaster" playing the role of a "cultural good master" for the "slaves of the state") simply "FORCEDLY INDELIVELY" turned a blind eye to this, with the connivance-indication of the ALREADY CAPITULATED central allied [real] authorities- "The bosses of the LOST [behind the scenes] Empire", LOST the arms race and finally understood the EXPLICIT techno-force superiority of the Enemy, already the ONE "nuclear T&RR @ Rist in law" and the thug "gendarme-overseer" on the planet, and reasonably agreed on a small shame of half-hidden phased neutralization and final VASSALIZATION "(so that the" Santa Claus "was completely sure that the" Santa Claus "would never again be able to" bark seriously "and would not really try to surpass him).

        Tryndya bidlu about "patriotism", the rulers themselves did not care about their homeland. And when they were shown "Kuz'k's grandmother", they knelt down and poured this homeland almost to the last warhead!

        Unfortunately, there is no better explanation (why, from whose stubborn "flaws" this "terrible" Union collapsed, without going, for example, along the path of semi-capitalist China, which in terms of the number of ethnic groups and population is a MUCH larger Empire) - unfortunately, no!
    2. A.YARY
      A.YARY 9 December 2013 10: 16 New
      23
      And REALLY, WHY NOW DO NOT HOLD REFERENCES ON THE RESTORATION OF THE USSR ???

      "Has anyone tried to eat an elephant ?!"

      k \ f Little Red Riding Hood.

      The skins in the "governments" will shoot themselves ----- or rather they will shoot whoever starts doing it!
      1. Criceta
        Criceta 9 December 2013 10: 59 New
        -17 qualifying.
        With Tajiks and Uzbeks in one state, let them come, live, breed. Well, well ... Such an idea could only occur to people who were nostalgic for their childhood.
        1. GDP
          GDP 9 December 2013 12: 00 New
          16
          Previously, they had a different standard of living and the culture was significantly different. I am not opposed to Tajiks or Uzbeks living in Russia if it is a friendly, educated and civilized people.
          Having united into a single whole, we would have become stronger and would not only have risen ourselves, but also raised them, so that the flows of migrants would have rolled back all the same their homeland is there ...
          What for money to spend on strangers? Let's escape one by one? This is not the principle of Russia to step on someone’s head in order to survive on its own. All this is forcibly instilled into our consciousness ... Our strength in collectivism - even if it doesn’t sound very beautiful, when we tried to go the other way, we always lost ...
          1. Criceta
            Criceta 9 December 2013 12: 32 New
            -8
            it will be a friendly, educated and civilized people

            Yeah, rather the sky will fall to earth. In fifty generations on Russian subsidies, they may and will become a "more civilized" people.
            1. smile
              smile 9 December 2013 14: 40 New
              14
              Criceta
              For two generations of Soviet power, they have risen on the same level with us from wild feudalism ... and are in no way inferior to us. And of course, they had to help with this. Now their leadership, which treats us about the same as you treat them, in one generation has dropped them almost to the initial level.
              And do not forget that in the USSR they made a rather big contribution to the development of our state, including with blood during the Second World War.
            2. Starina_hank
              Starina_hank 9 December 2013 21: 24 New
              +3
              If we are so degraded, then what could happen to less developed nations?
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 13: 42 New
          12
          Quote: Сriceta
          With Tajiks and Uzbeks in one state ...

          not a single state in the post-Soviet space began to live better, neither we nor they.
        4. smile
          smile 9 December 2013 14: 34 New
          13
          Criceta
          And RI and the USSR were strong precisely because all nationalities were equal, all worked together for the benefit of a common Motherland, and there were no fascist sentiments like yours .... without internationalism, we would never have built such a powerful state. Otherwise, everyone would have lived in their principality. It was such ideas, like yours, that killed the Union - without nationalism and xenophobia, carefully cultivated, including with help from abroad, we would never have collapsed and the Union would have endured everything.
          Today you don’t like Uzbeks, tomorrow Tatars, the day after tomorrow Karelians ... and after the day after tomorrow what? Will you stay within the garden ring? Will it be a little crowded for you? Congratulations, you are the true product of a new era, with the help that Russia is now craving to dismember. You have a place in the swamp ....
          1. erg
            erg 9 December 2013 16: 45 New
            +8
            I will add, regarding ideology. What actually distinguishes communism from capitalism (and in particular libertarianism) and nationalism in the national question. Capitalism is not trying to change anything. You live according to your own laws, we live our own way, the main thing for us is to arrange a business with you and that’s it. But since civilizations can be at different levels of development, with this approach contradictions appear over time and the more developed ones begin to incline the less developed towards their order. Under various pretexts, such as rights are violated there, etc. You can often hear that in their colonies the capitalist countries brought civilization. But this was done not for the sake of the local population, but for the convenience of the colonists, well, and for that category of the local population that decided to adopt an alien way of life. These could be used to control the colonies, while not recognizing them as equal to themselves.
            With nationalism, everything is clear. There are higher and lower. Higher - gentlemen, lower - slaves. They either do not communicate with the lower ones or destroy them.
            Communist ideology recognizes that the development of peoples is not even and that there are peoples who have overtaken others in social development. And those who are at a higher stage of development of society MUST help others reach this stage. Not to reject, not to look indifferent, hiding behind centuries-old customs, but to help develop, as a more experienced person helps a less experienced person while recognizing him as his equal.
            Now, if we unite on such principles, the difference in lifestyle will not become an obstacle and will be overcome, not immediately, of course.
            1. smile
              smile 9 December 2013 18: 32 New
              0
              erg
              A good addition, in general - I agree.
          2. Criceta
            Criceta 10 December 2013 10: 41 New
            -3
            Quote: smile
            You have a place in the swamp

            If I hadn’t lived in St. Petersburg, I would definitely have been on Bolotnaya Square.
            1. svp67
              svp67 29 December 2013 10: 34 New
              0
              Quote: Сriceta
              If I hadn’t lived in St. Petersburg, I would definitely have been on Bolotnaya Square.
              You are our heroic, but what prevents you from going to any square of St. Petersburg and declaring your views? Isn’t the party or courage not enough?
              1. Kolovrat77
                Kolovrat77 29 December 2013 10: 47 New
                0
                He left alone in St. Petersburg on August 2 to fight for his rights, but the local brothers were not very happy, they suppressed the pluralism of opinions.
      2. Vasia kruger
        Vasia kruger 9 December 2013 11: 03 New
        +9
        Quote: A.YARY
        And REALLY, WHY NOW DO NOT HOLD REFERENCES ON THE RESTORATION OF THE USSR ???


        Churov will be considered. 146% say NO.
      3. ekzorsist
        ekzorsist 9 December 2013 20: 24 New
        +5
        The thought is certainly not a bad one. but there is a big BUT !!! But what about the leaders of the former republics sitting at the "helm" and "feeding troughs" and their ilk, the so-called "elite" of assholes (?!?) Raised by them, are so direct and will allow this referendum to be held?!?
        Figurines - yes they will lay down their bones with their own and folk’s, they will flood everything and everything around with blood, if only they would not take the feeder.
        After all, then many questions will arise:
        And how did you suddenly become the owner of a large plant built with national (union) money?
        But how did you manage to buy a villa in San Antonio with your staff in addition to your very modest salary?
        Yes, and many other very, very slippery issues can arise ... and then they can even put them to the wall ... according to the Criminal Code of the USSR - theft of state property on an especially large scale.
        Not for nothing, for example, in the same Kazakhstan, even in the constitution (!!!!!!) they recorded (as the basic law !!!) - the first (he is the only and eternal president) of Kazakhstan and his family are beyond jurisdiction - NEVER AND NEVER To whom!
        And in other republican constitution there are similar twists. After all, they know whose oil they ate!
        So, of course, such a referendum is necessary, but only according to the Egyptian version with the direct control of the Army. Otherwise .... alas, there are a lot of ghouls now (the example is Ukraine), and they are well organized, and they are not too modest.
    3. klimpopov
      klimpopov 9 December 2013 12: 49 New
      17
      The most interesting thing is that the original of the Bialowieza Agreement is missing.

      "... The originals of the Belovezhskaya Agreement, which actually marked the collapse of the USSR, have not been preserved in the archives of any of the states that signed it - neither Russia, nor Ukraine, nor Belarus. On November 1, at a briefing in Kiev, the head of the State Archival Service of Ukraine told reporters Olga Ginzburg, a REGNUM correspondent reports.
      “We, as well as the archives of the Federal Archival Agency of Russia, and the Department for Archives and Records Management of the Ministry of Justice of the Republic of Belarus, constantly receive requests to provide the original of the Belovezhskaya Agreement for review. We shrug our shoulders - neither in Ukraine, nor in Russia, nor in Belarus does not have the original of this document, "the official said.
      She also said that this is not an isolated case of loss of documents, but did not specify what the legal consequences of losing the agreement might be ... "
      Bialowieza agreements do not exist. Thus, taking into account the referendum on the preservation of the Union, we have a coup carried out by a group of persons in collusion.
      1. Altona
        Altona 9 December 2013 13: 19 New
        14
        As for the denunciation of the 1922 Union Treaty, silence is also ... Actually, all the signatories and those who did the technical training, starting with Burbulis and then alphabetically ... Smudge the hell out of the wall!
        1. klimpopov
          klimpopov 9 December 2013 13: 27 New
          +6
          I read the memoirs of one of the traitors (I don’t remember anyone), and so he said that they thought and feared for a very long time (I mean the direct signing), REALLY were afraid of arrest and the like, but the authorities were already castrated and there were no consequences for them, but rather all kinds of good ...
          Anyway, there’s a story with Yazov ... And there’s a lot of other things under the bar ...
    4. vyatom
      vyatom 9 December 2013 12: 53 New
      18
      I am for the Soviet Union.
      The future belongs to socialist society.
      1. klimpopov
        klimpopov 9 December 2013 13: 14 New
        +9
        No return! The USSR cannot be returned - it’s high time to understand this. If we want to learn, then we need to move forward. The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics DISSOLVED (whether the question is legal or not). In fact, we have what we have.
        The challenge is moving towards unification. As a basis, take the USSR system as amended for the economy and so on. This is not one decade (if at all possible).
        At the same time, the MAIN task at the moment is to keep Russia at least within its present borders, so that that backbone remains for the future. I just wrote this very simply and schematically, in fact there are many BUTs, a lot of BUTs. First of all, you need to deal with the fifth column, without its destruction (total and already "chips") there will be no movement, there will only be regression and collapse. Look at how society has degraded over the past 10 years (it was during these ten years when the generation of the 90s grew up).
        At the same time, I sincerely believe that we have not yet passed the point of no return, but literally on the verge (a year or two)
        These are my thoughts, based on what I see, they are condensed into a very small comment format. Globally "what to do" I do not know, but where to start I see ... After the purge, the nationalization of the main and the state is certain. At the same time, it is necessary to develop the institution of entrepreneurship (I am also sure of this, but not the huckster, namely entrepreneurs, the service sector and small-scale production, by the way, the problem of the Union). Now all this is impossible due to corruption and the actions of the fifth column. And so on ... Again, just start, and there will be movement. But when (fiction, of course) we will "heal" the rest will ask themselves, because they always adjoin and unite with a strong and leader, I noticed from elementary school ...
        1. Altona
          Altona 9 December 2013 13: 33 New
          +8
          The worst thing is that the Union fell apart in the minds ... The territory remained ... There is no main thing for restoration, no authoritative elite generator, before the CPSU together with other public organizations, the Komsomol, the All-Union Central Council of Trade Unions, and pioneering at the adolescent level carried out the main control and training. ..Now who rotates? Anyone what’s called ... There were no public funds that quietly pulled away, through which sports training for young people, cultural leisure and recreation of workers was carried out ... The Planning Institute also functioned by distributing resources across industries and regions so that there weren’t hyperpolises and dying villages ... All this did not require the destruction of the country, all this was completely strengthened with the expansion of modern technical means and capabilities ...
          1. klimpopov
            klimpopov 9 December 2013 13: 36 New
            +5
            The worst thing is that the Union fell apart in the minds

            Very true! Nobody perceived the Union inside anymore. Everyone saw a "bright future".
            As for the frames, it is again true. In my commentary I spoke about numerous "BUT", yours will be one of the main ones. This is where to start (well, if we are talking about some kind of revival). Cadres, cadres and again cadres with subsequent succession, science, sports, to embrace and occupy a person from an early age and prepare with a cog in the state. Again, I'm probably an idealist ((((and I see everything in pink glasses (((((
            1. Altona
              Altona 9 December 2013 13: 43 New
              +2
              We are all idealists ... If we return something, then we will again get involved in the civil war ... The picture from Ukraine is on the TV ...
              1. klimpopov
                klimpopov 9 December 2013 13: 52 New
                +3
                Oh yeah. Your truth. But is the evolutionary path possible (although there is room for revolutions)? That is, sequentially step by step. I understand that from out of there is a strong influence. But purely theoretically? ...
        2. Valkyrie
          Valkyrie 9 December 2013 14: 04 New
          +9
          Quote: klimpopov
          After the purge, most likely the nationalization of the main and state. At the same time, it is necessary to develop the institution of entrepreneurship (I’m also sure of this, but not the huckster, namely entrepreneurs, the service sector and small-scale production, by the way the problem of the Union). Now all 6 is impossibly because of corruption and the actions of the fifth column.

          Agree. But Old Man Lukashenko has such experience. It could be used to revive a social state with a share of medium-sized business. those. entrepreneurship in the economy. Everything that you described exists and works in Belarus. And the fifth column is not there. Old Man is clearly looking at this.
          1. soldier's grandson
            soldier's grandson 9 December 2013 14: 09 New
            +6
            what is the fifth column? what is it so with impunity that everything slows down in us? is Serdyukov with DAM? or ordinary people? in my opinion there is no column, but if there is, then this is our power
            1. klimpopov
              klimpopov 9 December 2013 14: 27 New
              +4
              and if there is, then this is our power

              You probably do not understand the meaning of the expression "fifth column".
              At the same time, you yourself answer your question in your comment))))
          2. klimpopov
            klimpopov 9 December 2013 14: 29 New
            +2
            You see, our entire so-called vertical is built on corruption. They are promoting her, they are fighting her, she is even officially recognized. If they "learn from experience" then they themselves (those in power) will have to put themselves in prison on their own. Something like this.
            1. soldier's grandson
              soldier's grandson 9 December 2013 14: 32 New
              0
              Well, yes, as I understand it, it used to be and lasted until 1917
            2. Valkyrie
              Valkyrie 9 December 2013 16: 38 New
              +6
              Definitely understand. Dear klimpopov, you just dreamed a little about what needs to be done in our situation. If you do something with us, then only another government can do it. And use the existing experience in Belarus. And we are creating all sorts of departments to fight corruption. This is clearly not to put themselves in jail. And they cut down some money for free from the budget and at the same time show the people once again how they tear their navel up in the fight against corruption.
              1. klimpopov
                klimpopov 9 December 2013 17: 24 New
                +4
                Everything is just like that. The department to combat the department to control the department to combat the department of control ..... At the same time - this is a system ...
          3. alone
            alone 9 December 2013 19: 37 New
            +1
            Quote: Valkyrie
            And the fifth column is not there.


            even if one imagines that the USSR can be restored, it will never be the same as before. Yes, and in principle, the restoration of the union looks very problematic. Firstly, not all states want this, and secondly, the majority of those who want this state are in a deplorable state .With weak joining, you cannot create a strong country. This is absurd and illogical.
      2. Criceta
        Criceta 9 December 2013 13: 42 New
        -9
        Quote: vyatom
        The future belongs to socialist society.

        What is one country where socialism has stood the test of time? Poverty Cuba, where those who have not left for the United States are engaged in either dancing or prostitution? Or the theater of the absurd North Korea, or ...? And that's all.
        And to speak with slogans "The future belongs to socialism !!!! Hurray comrades ..."

        Just do not talk about Scandinavia and China. In fact, China has long moved away from socialist values, and Scandinavia, in addition to leveling off through a progressive taxation scale, has not come close to them. Socialism, if my memory serves me, is a ban on the private ownership of the means of production.
        1. Altona
          Altona 9 December 2013 13: 49 New
          +8
          And no one speaks for the means of production ... But you can weigh everything, consider how best to arrange it ... The means of production are more difficult to move from country to country, this is not electronic money that flutters on exchanges and cards of financial speculators ... By in fact, the capitalist producer, in the presence of a strong union at its factory, is the first socialist ... In every more or less social state, this is understood ... France, Germany ...
          1. klimpopov
            klimpopov 9 December 2013 13: 59 New
            +4
            It's like that. I agree. In general, the very concept of socialism and socialist is perverted.
        2. Valkyrie
          Valkyrie 9 December 2013 14: 09 New
          10
          You are confusing concepts. Socialism is a teaching in which the implementation of the principles of social justice, freedom and equality is put forward as a goal and ideal. And the goal can be achieved in many ways.
          1. Criceta
            Criceta 9 December 2013 14: 51 New
            -10 qualifying.
            I don’t confuse anything. You have taken one of the definitions. And they, by the way, are like dirt, and in the majority we are talking specifically about the means of production, and not about romance, freedom and equality ...
            For example:
            1. Political and economic theory or a system of social organization based on collective or state ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange.
            2. The first phase of communism, the social system, the basis of production relations of which is public ownership of the means of production in the conditions of the dictatorship of the proletariat and the destruction of the exploiting classes and in which distribution according to labor is carried out.
            3. The social system, the basis of production relations of which is public ownership of the means of production; the first phase of communism.

            And what can I say, they tried to build socialism in Russia - it didn’t work ... Everyone, we drove through. It is necessary to develop further, and not to seek oblivion in the nostalgic memories of the smell of childhood.
            1. Starina_hank
              Starina_hank 9 December 2013 21: 41 New
              +3
              And where much further, it seems we come. Can you think a little?
            2. Sandov
              Sandov 10 December 2013 18: 16 New
              +2
              Quote: Сriceta
              And what can I say, they tried to build socialism in Russia - it didn’t work ... Everyone, we drove through. It is necessary to develop further, and not to seek oblivion in the nostalgic memories of the smell of childhood.

              Do not be naive. The West did not allow to build and their rats had a hand.
        3. Saburov
          Saburov 9 December 2013 23: 11 New
          0
          Sweden, Switzerland, this is essentially a model and a mixture of a socialist state with a capitalist one. Although all the Scandinavian countries belong to the same model of socialism as Sweden, it is also called the Swedish model, even in 84 documentary films showed us about the country of the victorious socialism of Sweden.
          1. Criceta
            Criceta 10 December 2013 10: 54 New
            -1
            Why did they drag Switzerland here?
            And as for Sweden, without any essence and mixture - means of production in private ownership? In private! Everything, the word socialism and Sweden are not particularly compatible. The social programs and guarantees that exist in Sweden are the merit of capitalist society. Maybe it's worth saying that Sweden is a country of victorious capitalism? AND?
            1. Saburov
              Saburov 10 December 2013 12: 24 New
              0
              Before the creation of the eurozone, all Scandinavian countries developed successfully and social programs in these countries were state-owned, read about the Swedish model of socialism at your leisure and what is more, private property, we are talking about socialism in the public sector, in the USSR, the car and cottage were also private property .
              1. Criceta
                Criceta 11 December 2013 00: 23 New
                0
                Quote: Saburov
                the car and the cottage were also privately owned.

                We read carefully and thoughtfully my messages - Private ownership of the means of production. In this phrase, the main meaning in the words PRODUCTION. So cars and dachas aren’t at all here. wink
                PS Yes, and leisure time to read about the Swedish model of socialism, or rather about our definition of the Swedish model of capitalism (and as you probably know, there is also the British model of capitalism), happened in the 88th year, back in school))) So, not It’s worth trying to surprise me and others with their sacred knowledge about the world order.
                With respect.
        4. Rusich51
          Rusich51 9 December 2013 23: 30 New
          +2
          Griseta name at least one country where capitalism has made man happy. Everywhere enslaves, robs, kills, rapes.
          1. Criceta
            Criceta 10 December 2013 11: 05 New
            -3
            Some kind of rhetorical question. Question slogan ... laughing
            Well, name at least one country where socialism has made man happy? Probably North Korea, where there is no slave labor, there are no labor camps with slave labor for soldering Korean cabbage and a bowl of rice on holidays. Yes?
            1. Sandov
              Sandov 10 December 2013 18: 19 New
              +2
              Quote: Сriceta
              Well, name at least one country where socialism has made man happy?

              How do you like the USSR. He was quite happy and sympathized with others living in the rotten west.
              1. Criceta
                Criceta 11 December 2013 00: 30 New
                -2
                Quote: Sandov
                How do you like the USSR.

                Somehow not very ... I lived in it for 18 years, but did not like it.
      3. AVV
        AVV 13 December 2013 00: 19 New
        +2
        Yes, now the most important thing is Ukraine, they won’t give these fagots, they’ll ruin it to zero !!! And then there will be a civil war there !!! Wow, that Western propaganda is doing with people !!! They climb onto the scaffold and put their heads under an ax !!!
    5. StolzSS
      StolzSS 9 December 2013 23: 43 New
      0
      Why can’t you imagine? You can even imagine everything up to us. It means that we undress this trash and we sew in the donkey’s skin just refreshed and throw it out in the sunshine in the garbage, then somewhere near Tripoli let it fall into decay ...
    6. Thunderbolt
      Thunderbolt 12 December 2013 22: 07 New
      +1
      Quote: PSih2097
      You can’t even imagine a punishment for this trinity of drunks, to ruin such a country ...


      It seems to me that this trinity is just performers, killers, so to speak, but I think few people know the names of the customers. People who had a hand in this, people who were accomplices, we know, many are still in power ... But those who "steered" the process for many years, and are still driving, are unlikely. I am not a supporter of conspiracy theories, but where there is a lot of money and power, there are secrets ... But of course those who did this can be called a generalized "world capitalist system"
  2. smel
    smel 9 December 2013 07: 11 New
    24
    I would like to return everything, but, unfortunately, this is impossible. It would be enough to collect the Slavs in one union, and there others would have pulled themselves together. But the most important thing, in my opinion, is to pull up all the organizers of that collapse, and whom the Lord has already tidied up, then write the truth on the monument so that descendants know
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 9 December 2013 07: 50 New
      +9
      Quote: smel
      I would like to return everything, but, unfortunately, this is impossible

      Poorly, slowly, slowly we are creating a new Union of TS. Slow but break do not build hi
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. ele1285
      ele1285 9 December 2013 08: 13 New
      10
      I also believe that at this stage it is simply not possible to restore the Union. They say that the most powerful drug is power, so who can refuse it? Now, if you make a change of power in the former republics (perhaps except Belarus), then it is quite possible.
      1. demel2
        demel2 9 December 2013 17: 40 New
        +4
        First you need to change your own power.
    4. Turkestan
      Turkestan 9 December 2013 10: 37 New
      12
      [quote = smel] I would like to return everything, but, unfortunately, this is not possible.

      THIS IS NOT TRUE. Many historians, legal scholars and political scientists, claim for a number of gross violations by the Belovezh signers and ratifying the parliaments' agreements the provisions of the Soviet constitutional legislation (in particular, only the Congress of People's Deputies of the RSFSR could change the constitutional system, and not the Supreme Council of the RSFSR), The USSR in a strictly legal sense still exists.
      1. Egoza
        Egoza 9 December 2013 11: 23 New
        10
        Quote: Turkestan
        in a strictly legal sense, it still exists.

        Quite right! Only now it will be VERY difficult to tear the "supreme" figures from the trough. But in principle, I do not exclude that by annexing Ukraine to the CU (and this will happen sooner or later), it will be possible to talk about the restoration of the USSR. - Let not all republics want to return (well, let them sit in the gamerope). However, first of all, Russia remains the flagship. That would really be noticeable was the real struggle with the enticed officials, social standards would rise, the people would tumble down - in the sense of joining. IMHO
        1. smel
          smel 9 December 2013 11: 28 New
          +4
          Well, if you dig so deeply, then the Helsinki agreements regarding the invariability of borders at the end of the Great Patriotic War (2-th World War) no one denounced and, accordingly, no one canceled. So the existence of a huge number of European countries, including a united Germany, is not entirely legitimate
        2. GDP
          GDP 9 December 2013 12: 05 New
          +5
          Right! This corruption is that brown puddle in which the former fraternal republics constantly poke us. Cut this factor to the root and everything will work out ... The current president has the power and the strength to do this, would have a desire ... But with a desire ... for now the question ...
          But you need to start from the head and not from the bottom.
          1. Tersky
            Tersky 9 December 2013 14: 32 New
            +5
            Quote: GDP
            Right! This corruption is that brown puddle in which the former fraternal republics constantly poke us.

            and in the fraternal republics it has long been eradicated .... Let them start, beys, bais, khans, yard presidents, etc. The neighbor’s children are always worse.
          2. Starina_hank
            Starina_hank 9 December 2013 21: 45 New
            +1
            In my opinion HE is a political impotent!
        3. Turkestan
          Turkestan 9 December 2013 15: 47 New
          +7
          I am sure the Soviet Union can be recreated only for this, the WILL of the peoples of the former Soviet Union and leaders, patriots of their homeland devoted only to the ideas of RE-CREATING THE SOVIET UNION are needed
        4. Starina_hank
          Starina_hank 9 December 2013 21: 44 New
          +2
          In the current state, Russia clearly does not pull on the role of the flagship of the Slavic states, Belarus is more likely the leader.
          1. domoskan70
            domoskan70 9 December 2013 23: 14 New
            0
            There is no such country !!!
            1. Was mammoth
              Was mammoth 9 December 2013 23: 15 New
              0
              Quote: domoskan70
              There is no such country !!!

              What diagnosis? wink
      2. EwgenyZ
        EwgenyZ 9 December 2013 12: 34 New
        -2
        From a legal point of view, the Russian Empire still exists! Nicholas II did not have the right to renounce his son in favor of his brother. However, now it would never occur to anyone to rush to restore a lost empire. We must live by today's realities: the USSR is not, as is the Russian Empire. Do not be sad about the past, but you must go forward and live the future. And in the future, I’m sure (!), A Great Country awaits us, which will incorporate all the best from previous states.
        “The Russian state has the advantage over everyone else that it is controlled directly by the Lord God Himself. Otherwise, it’s impossible to explain how it even exists. ”
        (Field Marshal H.A. Minich, 1765)
      3. Altona
        Altona 9 December 2013 13: 54 New
        +4
        Quote: Turkestan
        claim for a number of gross violations by the Belovezh signers and ratifications of the agreements by the parliaments of the provisions of the Soviet constitutional legislation (in particular, only the Congress of People's Deputies of the RSFSR could change the constitutional system

        ----------------------------------
        Only who recognizes this? Then the sweetest pie from destruction will fly to hell — the legitimacy of the privatization of the 90s at mortgage auctions for its ...
  3. Volkhov
    Volkhov 9 December 2013 07: 20 New
    18
    The USSR, like the Russian Empire, was ruined by the top and did not at all try to punish itself for this crime - on the contrary, those who tried to save the state were arrested and removed - the corps commander who offered help to Nicholas II after the abdication and members of the Emergency Committee.
    Since the current state, following the example of the past, will also destroy the "elite", it is time to build a new one without it, choosing foremen and creating all structures, primarily scientific, in order to know what is happening.
    1. DimychDV
      DimychDV 9 December 2013 10: 26 New
      +2
      I already read ideas about creating a virtual Russian state. Believe me, as soon as it comes to creating its financial system, they will grab your savings and disappear into the net. Where are the grandmas? Internetuti!
      If in real life they will not guess in any way to choose a lame, red-haired, crooked Jew as the chief cashier - so that he does not hide anywhere, if he runs away with money. If in real life and red, and crooked, and even "this" - do not even hide, having stolen, and no one threatens them with anything ... then what do you want?
    2. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 9 December 2013 11: 28 New
      +7
      Quote: Volkhov
      creating all structures, primarily scientific, to know what is going on.
  4. calocha
    calocha 9 December 2013 07: 24 New
    16
    “Humpbacked” must be judged! ”A flywheel spun from him ...
  5. Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 9 December 2013 07: 26 New
    29
    President of the RSFSR Yeltsin, President of Ukraine Kravchuk and Chairman of the Supreme Council of the Republic of Belarus Shushkevich, headed by Gorbachev, are the main criminals of the 20th century.
    1. domoskan70
      domoskan70 9 December 2013 23: 08 New
      -5
      If the stupid commies didn’t interfere and didn’t get the silly onions ... Maybe everything was completely different !!!
  6. mirag2
    mirag2 9 December 2013 07: 35 New
    +6
    Yes, the attitude to their own people, to their needs as a mass, and not a personality, was ruined.
    Yes, and in today's Russia, this crawls out.
  7. Boris55
    Boris55 9 December 2013 07: 41 New
    19
    Khrushchev, having killed Stalin, launched the mechanism of the collapse of the USSR. Humpbacked with EBN drove the last nails into the coffin lid.

    1. alone
      alone 9 December 2013 19: 40 New
      +1
      [quote = Boris55] Khrushchev, having killed Stalin, launched the mechanism of the collapse of the USSR. Humpbacked with EBN drove the last nails into the coffin lid.

      Moreover, they did this with the help of ordinary people who, with their indifference, and sometimes outright stupidity, brought the country to a final collapse
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Boris55
        Boris55 9 December 2013 20: 39 New
        -2
        Quote: lonely
        with the help of ordinary people who, with their indifference and sometimes outright stupidity

        Congressman Robert Andrews:
        “The Cold War was a global military operation, extremely dangerous and sometimes fatal for the brave soldiers, sailors, pilots and marines who participated in this campaign. The millions of American veterans who have served around the world to help us defeat this conflict deserve a unique medal in recognition and respect for their service. ”



        Hillary Clinton:
        “Our victory in the Cold War was made possible only thanks to the readiness of millions of Americans in military uniforms to repel the threat posed by the Iron Curtain. Our victory in the Cold War was a huge achievement, and the men and women who served at the time deserve a reward. ”



        The cold war is a war of ideologies
        .
        1. alone
          alone 9 December 2013 22: 04 New
          +1
          Boris, of course I respect the opinions of all people who do not go beyond the bounds of decency and permissibility! And I respect your opinion as a person who was disappointed to lose a big country!
          Who raised Yeltsin to the tank? Hillary? or maybe Congressman Andrews flapped his ears on Horbatogo’s delirium? they were customers. the humpback and EBN were performers. and all of us former Soviet citizens clapped their hands and nodded their heads, chewed chewing gum, searched for worn jeans, looked for a beautiful and reckless life, and that's all! why am I writing about stupidity and inaction! hi
          1. Boris55
            Boris55 9 December 2013 23: 52 New
            +1
            Quote: lonely
            Who raised Yeltsin to the tank? Hillary? or maybe Congressman Andrews was flapping his ears on Hunchback's delirium?

            I’m talking about the ideological war that we lost and thanks to which we became all those that you listed. It took them 40 years to turn us into a herd. To deny this is to condemn us once again to failure. Fell everything on EBN with Humpback - the same is not right. All the leaders of the CPSU, starting with Khrushchev, had a hand in this. I repeat once again - exactly leaders brought the people and country to such a state. hi
  8. makarov
    makarov 9 December 2013 07: 47 New
    16
    "..So, the liberal myth No. 1 - the USSR was a" prison of peoples ", there was no friendship between them ..."

    If you follow this definition, then in the Bialowieza Forest gathered the most important prison Pahany. It turns out that prisons and earlier, except for Yanukovych fell into power ....
    Everything is simpler, each of the gathered people wanted to BE THE LEADER OF A NEW COUNTRY, and, by sherry, the interests of the PEOPLE
  9. Sergey Sitnikov
    Sergey Sitnikov 9 December 2013 07: 51 New
    39
    I know a welder (in cars), he has very long hair and a huge beard during his work, I asked how he did, he answered that he made a vow - until Gorbachev dies, he will cut his hair and shave - this is the attitude of ordinary people to you treason humpback contraceptive
    1. Greenwood
      Greenwood 9 December 2013 08: 56 New
      12
      I feel that he still has to walk overgrown for a long time. Unless Gorbach dies of old age.
    2. kavkaz8888
      kavkaz8888 9 December 2013 08: 57 New
      34
      Say hello to the welder. God grant him a haircut as soon as possible.
  10. Stinger
    Stinger 9 December 2013 07: 59 New
    19
    Napoleon said: "In order to destroy the fatherland, even one villain is enough: there have been many examples of that in history." Which was confirmed.
    1. Apollo
      9 December 2013 08: 41 New
      14
      Good morning everybody hi

      First of all, we all, without exception (the very liberals make the exception), need to repent for the collapse of the USSR. By our inaction, to some extent, contributed to this very collapse. Let's be honest, to ourselves,what did to prevent?! Surely a counter question will sound what can i?! Here is this nonchalant or rather criminal inaction and led to the collapse. Alone, Gorbachev and his clique could not have collapsed, we all collapsed.
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov (2) Today, 07: 50 ↑
      Quote: smel
      I would like to return everything, but, unfortunately, this is impossible
      Poorly, slowly, slowly we are creating a new Union of TS. Slow but break do not build

      So let's even now as Romanov wrote, we will contribute to the revival, which once lost our native state.
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 9 December 2013 09: 36 New
        0
        Quote: Apollon
        By our inaction, to some extent, we contributed to this very collapse.
        I’ll say for myself.
        The power of the CPSU to the beginning of perestroika (from 53 to the beginning of 90's) has already completely discredited itself in the eyes of the people.
        I was glad to cancel the 6 article of the constitution on the leadership of the CPSU - they got it!
        Did I want the collapse of the USSR - NO! Do I want to repent for the collapse of the USSR - NO!

        Lenin also destroyed the USSR, dividing Russia according to nationalities (as now modern Russia is already divided into 21 republics), with his work "The Right of Nations to Self-Determination" - that's what they decided ... by the way, very harmful work aimed at destroying Russian civilization.
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 9 December 2013 12: 24 New
          0
          The book "Stalin against the Party. The Solution to the Death of the Leader" by Kostin.
          He convincingly argues that Joseph Stalin fell victim to many years of struggle with the party that he led, and the immediate cause of his death was the attempt to reform the CPSU and the system of state administration of the USSR, to transfer all power from the party nomenclature to the soviets, to the people. He was right. It was the leaders of the CPSU that destroyed the USSR. Each of them grabbed as much as he could ...

          Do I want to restore the USSR as before - NOT!
          1. Egoza
            Egoza 9 December 2013 13: 21 New
            +1
            Quote: Boris55
            Do I want to restore the USSR in its previous form - NO!

            And according to the Stalin plan?
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 9 December 2013 13: 35 New
              -8
              Quote: Egoza
              And according to the Stalin plan?

              Time is not right. Better according to Putin's plan: Customs Union from the Atlantic to the Pacific ...
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 14: 08 New
                +6
                Quote: Boris55
                The Customs Union from the Atlantic to the Pacific ...

                the problem is that a generation has already grown in the republics with hatred looking at Russia sad
        2. EwgenyZ
          EwgenyZ 9 December 2013 12: 43 New
          -2
          Quote: Boris55
          dividing Russia by nationality (as modern Russia is now divided into 21 republics)

          However, not everyone understands this. The "bomb" under the USSR was laid during the formation of the state, the time has come and it "exploded".
      2. Very old
        Very old 9 December 2013 12: 05 New
        11
        It's like that.
        But I disagree with you on one point, Apollon, there is nothing to repent of for everyone on the forum.
        Who served, who worked ... None of us were in B. Pushcha, no one shot B. House, no one tore the red star
        And nobody fucked not a bit
  11. bairat
    bairat 9 December 2013 08: 35 New
    10
    The USSR collapsed due to ideological stubbornness: in no way could we allow even small business. We had a huge country, and there was nothing to eat in it. In general, there was nothing, neither normal clothes, nor things (although there is an opinion that everything was in Moscow and in the Union republics). It was necessary to lower these primitive things to the lower level, even if enterprising people produce basic necessities, and the CPSU Central Committee would not think about where to sew what caps and what to sow, but about the general course. The Chinese were able to adapt ideology to the realities of life, and now they are on horseback.
    1. Greenwood
      Greenwood 9 December 2013 08: 58 New
      11
      So they talked about this, it was necessary to give the light industry to the private trader, and the counters would be littered with food, clothing and other consumer goods. And the heavy and mining industries should have remained state-owned. But the people who came to power were well aware that light industry would not give such astronomical profits in a short time. Hence the problems of Russia.
      1. Prometey
        Prometey 9 December 2013 09: 06 New
        +6
        Quote: Greenwood
        But the people who came to power were well aware that light industry would not give such astronomical profits in a short time.

        Money turnover is always faster in light industry - it works with the direct supplier of money supply - the population. And recessions are reflected in it more easily than in heavy and mining industries.
        1. Yuri Y.
          Yuri Y. 9 December 2013 09: 44 New
          +4
          Quote: bairat
          couldn’t let us at least let’s
          entrepreneurship.

          It is difficult to determine something here, with such a powerful ideological pressure of the West as it would now come out, most likely the same thing. China is already talking about the bourgeoisie of the party apparatus. As you know, crime has served as guides in the form of guilds.
          Although if they were in sight it might have been different, then again, who did not know about them from those who should. Now we can only guess.
      2. Normal
        Normal 9 December 2013 09: 45 New
        +3
        Quote: bairat
        The USSR collapsed due to ideological stubbornness: in no way could we allow even small business. We had a huge country, and there was nothing to eat in it.

        Quote: Greenwood
        So they talked about this, it was necessary to give the light industry to private owners, and the counters would be littered with food, clothes and other consumer goods


        This is the "500 days" program of Shatalin-Yavlinsky. The mere mention of Yavlinsky causes such hysteria among the pro-government officials that it becomes clear where, when and why we went "wrong."

        Quote: Greenwood
        But the people who came to power were well aware that light industry would not give such astronomical profits in a short time.


        Personally, they will not. And the country could be saved. But that was not the purpose of those who came to power.
      3. washi
        washi 9 December 2013 11: 47 New
        +8
        Quote: Greenwood
        So they talked about this, it was necessary to give the light industry to the private trader, and the counters would be littered with food, clothing and other consumer goods. And the heavy and mining industries should have remained state-owned. But the people who came to power were well aware that light industry would not give such astronomical profits in a short time. Hence the problems of Russia.

        It was all under Stalin. Destroyed all cooperative production and household plots Khrushchev
    2. dmb
      dmb 9 December 2013 09: 57 New
      17
      I don’t remember anyone starving to death. Yes., They did not fatten, but the necessary set of products was on the table. Somewhere there was more fish, somewhere meat. Interruptions in food supplies became especially noticeable after the "tagged" man and his team came to power. Never welcomed conspiracy theory, but the analogies are obvious. Products disappeared exactly after the introduction of cooperatives. So small business in itself is not a panacea. I have already written about China. He is moving towards the same oligarchic capitalism as we are, only he is doing it gradually. is it good or bad? Bad for the bulk of the people, good for the billionaire CCP members. Not only do they appropriate most of the GDP, they also manage to "sanctify" it with the communist ideology, which is based on social equality. So we can safely say: Chinese oligarchs. much smarter than ours.
      1. bairat
        bairat 9 December 2013 10: 37 New
        0
        Quote: dmb
        Yes., Did not fat, but the necessary set of products was on the table.

        I don’t argue, in some places in the USSR it was very good, we came to Moscow and went nuts from abundance. And in my native Kazan, I stood in the line in the morning for milk and bread, who didn’t be late, for lunch only flies ran on the counter. How can this be allowed in an agricultural country, we have so many fields and meadows that you can feed half the world. The same thing in Cuba: for centuries they supplied Europe with sugar, with the advent of the Communists they introduced sugar coupons, sugar became scarce, they began to import it from neighboring countries. Well, the State Department is traditionally to blame for everything and not the lousy ideology that Karl Marx, who fiercely hated Russia, came up with.
        1. Egoza
          Egoza 9 December 2013 11: 41 New
          11
          Quote: bairat
          How can this be allowed in an agricultural country, we have so many fields and meadows that you can feed half the world.

          And all because Khrushchev destroyed the Stalinist system of government, when economists were responsible for the economy, and the Party for politics and ideology! Imagine himself a great connoisseur - where to sow corn, and where wheat! And then it rolled like that. The smart ones immediately figured out how to fill their pockets! But Glushkov created a system / program (sorry if the term is inaccurate), which itself would distribute to which sectors of the economy how much money needs to be distributed. But this is "O horror!" an encroachment on the power of officials and thieves! So they hacked to death!
          And even kill - I do not believe that the death of the young leader of Belarus was accidental. After all, he could become the next Secretary General, and not Brezhnev. And given his activities in the partisan detachment, they would have a completely different calico!
        2. dmb
          dmb 9 December 2013 11: 55 New
          16
          Indicate the year of the "flying flies". I want to remind you that for this "lousy ideology" people deliberately gave their lives not to me and you are a couple. Or were they stupider than you? About the hatred of Marx. Did you read that at Narochnitskaya's? So until 1991, this ideology suited her perfectly, and she (judging by her career) loved Marx more than her own great-grandfather. Well, about coupons for sugar in Cuba, where did you get it? Let me remind you that despite the lack of assistance in Cuba, the level of free medicine and education is higher than in our native capitalist homeland. I admit that you are not satisfied with the communist idea, then I would like to hear what you offer in return.
          1. bairat
            bairat 9 December 2013 12: 24 New
            -9
            Walking at grocery stores was hanged on me somewhere in the 80th year.
            Quote: dmb
            Well, about sugar coupons in Cuba, what source did you get from?

            for example, from the reviews of tourists, they write about two kilograms per person per month. http://www.kettik.kz/?p=12502
            Quote: dmb
            I admit that the communist idea does not suit you, then I would like to hear what you are offering in return.

            Private peasant farms are the basis of the country. You are communists and came to power on a promise to give land to the peasants, now Zyuganov has started an old record again, he offers to give each family a hectare of land. Do you think they will believe you for the second time?
            1. dmb
              dmb 9 December 2013 13: 40 New
              +9
              Well, let's point by point. 1. Something I don’t remember that the tsar-father or his successors promised the land to anyone. ". 2. There have been no communists for 20 years, and the" foundations of the country "are not felt. Judging by the fact that you ran through Kazan shops from an early age, in 91 you were 16 years old. I believe that you still walk around them, do not rush to become the "basis", and even if Gena's "globular" gives you a hectare of land, you simply speculate on it. What is actually happening now. There are mainly Israeli garlic and Dutch pepper in stores, and by hook or by crook the land is translated under cottage construction 3. About the great agrarian countries, where have you read this? Are you obviously going to plow with a plow? 4. Tourists' reviews are of course a more than serious source. Perhaps the rest could not have been written, but still I’ll ask, what public system will be in your "Great Peasant Empire?"
              1. bairat
                bairat 9 December 2013 13: 57 New
                -7
                Quote: dmb
                1. Something I don’t remember that the tsar-father or his successors promised the land to anyone. "

                What does the tsar have to do with it, Lenin promised land to the peasants.
                Quote: dmb
                2. There have been no communists for 20 years now, and the "foundation of the country" is not felt.

                Well, for 70 years, the base was etched, the performers were left waiting for the order from the district committee.
                ... I believe that you are still walking on them, do not rush to become a "base", and even if Gena's "globular" gives you a hectare of land, you will simply speculate on it. What is actually happening now. In the shops there are mainly Israeli garlic and Dutch pepper, and by hook or by crook the land is being transferred to cottage construction.

                So to me, what are you making these claims? Present to your communists, who have tarnished the country, clung to their ideology to the last.

                Quote: dmb
                3. About the great agricultural countries, where did you read this? Are you obviously going to plow plow?

                One does not interfere with the other; one can be a great industrial and agricultural country.

                Quote: dmb
                4.Reviews of tourists is of course a source of more than serious.

                Sorry, I don’t have a document signed by Raul Castro. If you do not agree, disprove a source worthy of your attention.
              2. The comment was deleted.
            2. Bumbik
              Bumbik 9 December 2013 14: 34 New
              -1
              Quote: bairat

              Private peasant farms are the basis of the country. You are communists and came to power on a promise to give land to peasants
              The Communists promised, but destroyed the peasantry, which was passed down from father to son for generations. Maybe from here Russia cannot feed itself with domestic products
              1. Yarosvet
                Yarosvet 9 December 2013 14: 52 New
                +9
                Quote: Bumbik
                Quote: bairat

                Private peasant farms are the basis of the country. You are communists and came to power on a promise to give land to peasants
                The Communists promised, but destroyed the peasantry, which was passed down from father to son for generations. Maybe from here Russia cannot feed itself with domestic products
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 15: 24 New
                +9
                Quote: Bumbik
                Maybe from here Russia cannot feed itself with domestic products

                the Communists didn’t destroy anything, in the first place, if I remember correctly, only 10-15% of the population can work independently, the rest can be excellent performers, but alas, there is no independent work of initiative.
                Further, without collective farms (large agricultural enterprises), it is IMPOSSIBLE to feed the country.
                Small, private courtyards can diversify our table but there is no way to feed everyone.
                and the problem with domestic products lies precisely in the fact that the communists created enterprises for their social system, while the democrats, having destroyed collective farms, began to bliss about the very regulation of the market and the government’s inadmissibility of managing it, the result is on our tables
                1. bairat
                  bairat 9 December 2013 15: 31 New
                  -4
                  Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                  Further, without collective farms (large agricultural enterprises), it is IMPOSSIBLE to feed the country.
                  Small, private courtyards can diversify our table but there is no way to feed everyone.

                  Do not confuse private farmsteads (grandmother's garden) with farms.
                  1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 15: 36 New
                    +6
                    Quote: bairat
                    Do not confuse private farmsteads (grandmother's garden) with farms.

                    Well, let's move on to farming. Well, the farmer contains 100 cows, then what? !!!!!

                    and about grandmother’s gardens you are extremely wrong, there was such a structure under the Union - consumer cooperation, it was with pleasure that I bought up surpluses from the population.

                    there are two such firms, Mercedes and Brabus produce essentially the same thing - a car, but a different price, different volume and different quality. if you remove the gelding, then the brabus the whole market will never saturate
                    1. bairat
                      bairat 9 December 2013 16: 28 New
                      +1
                      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Well, let's move on to farming. Well, the farmer contains 100 cows, then what? !!!!!

                      Then he sells milk and meat, develops an economy and supports his family. What else is required of him? Yes, if every peasant farm had 100 cows ... More often, we see unplowed fields overgrown with forests. We had a case: a farmer took a subsidy, built a farm with this money and reported. They brought a case against him and dragged him through the courts, it turns out that the subsidy cannot be spent on completion, you can only build something new. This is what our peasant has to fight with such nonsense.
                      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 16: 41 New
                        +4
                        Quote: bairat
                        We had a case: a farmer took a subsidy, built a farm with this money and reported. They brought a case against him and dragged him through the courts, it turns out that the subsidy cannot be spent on completion, you can only build something new. This is what our peasant has to fight with such nonsense.

                        we really need to fight against stupidities, including those like you described, took a target loan, read on, that you can spend it, so that you don’t sob after.
                        Quote: bairat
                        Then he sells milk and meat, develops an economy and supports his family
                        judging by this you are from 17 to 25, forgive the knowledge and understanding of the topic zero.
                        once again for victims of the exam, the cost and volume of small farms will NOT ALLOW to feed the country, I have not in vain cited the example of Merc and Brabus, but you seem to all of those who have a warm heart, but a small brain
                      2. bairat
                        bairat 9 December 2013 16: 53 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        judging by this you are from 17 to 25, forgive the knowledge and understanding of the topic zero.
                        once again for victims of the exam, the cost and volume of small farms will NOT ALLOW to feed the country, I have not in vain cited the example of Merc and Brabus, but you seem to all of those who have a warm heart, but a small brain

                        Vladimir, to shit on others sitting at the keyboard is not a great feat; in person, I think your language would be in a famous place. But on the topic, I do not see you have valid statements, but only transcendent conceit.
                      3. The comment was deleted.
                      4. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 17: 12 New
                        +1
                        Quote: bairat
                        shitting on others sitting at the keyboard is not a great feat, in person I think your language would be in a famous place

                        I express my point of view, under my name, you think you have something to present, an address in a personal inf
                        Quote: bairat
                        But on the topic, I do not see you have valid statements, but only transcendent conceit.

                        He justified his opinion and believes that it’s not right to refute, but nonsense - about how a small farmer feeds the country
                      5. bairat
                        bairat 9 December 2013 17: 25 New
                        0
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        justified his opinion

                        There was a statement: small farms will not feed the country. Next came a bunch of small Mercedes-Benz Brabus (this car brand is not interested, therefore did not delve into it), brain sizes and exam results. Which of them is considered a justification?
                        Well then, I’ll delete
                      6. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 17: 33 New
                        0
                        Well, if you do not understand then, and explain the meaning of a pardon no.
                        If it’s very interesting, read about Brabus and Meren, what is it and how is it different.
                        apologized below with an explanation
                      7. Normal
                        Normal 9 December 2013 22: 54 New
                        0
                        Quote: bairat
                        There was a statement: small farms will not feed the country.

                        Moreover, the author of this statement (if I'm not mistaken) is himself a farmer.
                        Apparently, despite the fact that the economy allows you to feed yourself and your family, thoughts about the country, Brabus and Mercedes are haunted. laughing
                      8. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 10 December 2013 01: 17 New
                        0
                        just apparently the author represents the real volume that he can produce
                      9. Normal
                        Normal 10 December 2013 02: 21 New
                        0
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        just apparently the author presents

                        But for life, teaching children, once a year to relax, enough, I hope?
                      10. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 10 December 2013 12: 55 New
                        0
                        we are not talking about this now, it’s possible to live on earth and in principle with comfort, we are saying that a small private trader is not a panacea and unfortunately he will not be able to feed the whole country, for this he also needs large enterprises.
              4. ekzorsist
                ekzorsist 9 December 2013 20: 55 New
                -1
                Dear Vladimir Vasilenko !!!
                I fully support you and am simply amazed at your patience and work - trying to explain the foundations of the political economy to a not very educated very modern (I find it difficult to choose a definition ...) bairat.
                It’s just that this subject is apparently very strong or has read some abstruse books (apparently Novodvorskaya mesmerized them with poison) or just from such a long standing in lines (standing and standing already in the 80s) the bairat developed a complex ...
                Thank you Vladimir Vasilenko for your efforts.
              5. bairat
                bairat 9 December 2013 21: 35 New
                +2
                Quote: ekzorsist
                not very educated, very modern (I find it difficult to choose a definition ...) bairat.

                Do not bother with the selection of epithets, value judgments do not hurt me much. Now, if you press the facts then another thing.
          2. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 17: 17 New
            0
            for such a harsh answer, I apologize, I confused you with a "grandson", but about the fact that a small farmer can feed the country, sorry ...
          3. bairat
            bairat 9 December 2013 18: 05 New
            +2
            Try to understand me too. This is not the case when you need to consider which is more profitable. Soon they will tell us: you are not profitable, we will bring Asians instead of you, they eat little and do not get sick. Agricultural holdings absorbed all the nonsense of the modern economy, with wage workers living in apartments, inanimate milk and rubber tomatoes. The peasantry disappears, along with it the layer of culture disappears. We just need the cooperation of small farms (well, small only in words, the average size is 40 hectares) and a coherent subsidy policy. We may well provide ourselves with products, even if they will be a little more expensive than in countries where there is no winter, but people will be busy with business and the land will not be empty.
          4. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 18: 40 New
            0
            Quote: bairat
            This is not the case when you need to consider which is more profitable

            the question is what is meant by profit, because it is not only money
            Quote: bairat
            The peasantry disappears, along with it the layer of culture disappears. We just need the cooperation of small farms (well, small it is only in words, the average size is 40 hectares

            40 hectares is a lot in the city, but not very much.
            cooperation is already a collective farm icing the creation of large complexes, if 5 farms continue to keep their cows, pigs, goats, it doesn’t matter who each in their own cattle doesn’t change anything, automation, which means you can’t introduce a cheaper price
            Quote: bairat
            clear subsidizing policy. We may well provide ourselves with products, even if they will be a little more expensive than in countries where there is no winter, but people will be busy with business and the land will not be empty

            this is all fine, but once again I repeat that only 10-15% of the population can do independent work, the rest is not, which means that all one needs enterprises where they will work; small farms are fine and necessary, but not tens of hectares are needed for feeding, and thousands
          5. The comment was deleted.
    3. Normal
      Normal 9 December 2013 22: 48 New
      +1
      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
      you seem to have a hot heart but a small brain

      .......
      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
      I knowingly cited the example of Merc and Brabus,

      .......
      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
      there are two such firms, Mercedes and Brabus produce essentially the same thing - a car, but a different price, different volume and different quality. if you remove the gelding, then the brabus the whole market will never saturate

      Judging by your knowledge of the automotive industry and the ease with which you transfer your ignorance to this issue to agriculture, IT IS YOU from those with a small brain.
      Daimler AG is one of the world's leading automakers, the fifth largest automaker in the world. As of December 31, 2007 (or for fiscal year 2007) [7]:
      The market capitalization of the concern is about 67,4 billion euros
      Group revenue of 99,4 billion euros
      About 2.1 million cars were sold in all divisions
      The group employs 272 people.
      The concern owns assembly plants in 17 countries
      ........
      Brabus GmbH (Brabus) is a company located in Bottrop (Germany), which specializes mainly in motor and body tuning, primarily Mercedes-Benz cars, as well as others manufactured by Daimler, Smart and Maybach cars . It is also registered as an independent car manufacturer .... It is the largest independent tuning studio in the world. In 1999 it became a division of DaimlerChrysler ......
      Celebrated as an atelier focused on expensive and exclusive tuning.

      If you were to compare, for example, the Volkswagen Group, as a manufacturer of mass, relatively affordable cars, and, for example, Ferrari SpA as a manufacturer of expensive sports cars designed for a very narrow circle of connoisseurs and adherents of the brand, then this comparison could be considered legitimate. But you compared, sorry, "oops" with a finger. Moreover, this "finger" is in the "opera" itself
      Based on your logic (if you can call it logic), you should immediately close your farm, because with its help it is impossible to saturate the market.

      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
      justified his opinion

      You have not presented the justification, namely
      ravings

      .....
      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
      If it’s very interesting, read about Brabus and Meren, what is it and how is it different.

      Well, apparently, YOU have not even read about these cars and companies.
    4. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 10 December 2013 01: 23 New
      0
      Judging by your knowledge of the automotive industry and the ease with which you transfer your ignorance to this issue to agriculture, IT IS YOU from those with a small brain.
      in your knowledge of brabus and meren you yourself answered my question, the first is designed for limited buyers who want to buy an elite product, the second is designed for a mass buyer the same is essentially a farmer producing an elite expensive product in comparison with "agricultural holdings", the former are not able saturate the mass market because of the cost and the second is not able to give the quality of "hand-assembled" the first, these are absolutely two different market segments
    5. Normal
      Normal 10 December 2013 02: 15 New
      +1
      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
      in your knowledge of Brabus and Meren you yourself answered my question

      There was no question, therefore I did not answer him.
      There was an absolutely illiterate, amateurish statement:
      there are two such firms, Mercedes and Brabus produce essentially the same thing - a car,

      Mercedes is not a "firm", but the 5th concern in the world in terms of the number of cars produced.
      Brabus is a tuning studio, which deals with the fact that Mercedes puts plastic spoilers, rear wings, tuning discs, carbon inserts, leather salons and knees of the gearbox with its logo and others on already manufactured cars. The most serious thing until recently was done by this company - chip tuning of engine control units, installation of reinforced brake discs and calipers, advanced shock absorbers. Despite the fact that Barbus (as indicated by the wiki) is registered as an independent car manufacturer, I am not fully aware of the completely designed and manufactured car of this company from beginning to end.
      To compare Mercedes with Brabus is the same as to compare an agricultural holding with an Azerbaijani merchant in the vegetable market and call the Azerbaijani a producer of agricultural products on the grounds that he washed the carrots before the sale.
      If we talk about serious tuning, then this is not Brabus but AMG
      But this is not about cars, but about C / X.
      Here I will not argue with you as a specialist. Of course, you cannot fully provide the country with food ... alone. Will 300 thousand farmers be able to? In cooperation, where necessary. With selective and meliorative support of the relevant organizations. With state protectionist policies. Will they be able to?
      I remember that in Soviet times, the state farm provided 6 acres of potatoes for one worker on the farm, technical assistance (plowing, planting, transporting crops to the cellar - not for free). So, having 12 acres, they provided themselves with their mother completely with potatoes, handed over part of the crop to consumer cooperation and sold them on the market. And all this without interrupting the main work, without manure, without "advanced" seed material, without advanced Dutch technologies and on poor soils near Moscow.
    6. soldier's grandson
      soldier's grandson 10 December 2013 09: 35 New
      +1
      I understand that just Merc is an agricultural holding, and Brabus is a farmer who can take sausage or milk from an agricultural holding and tune them
    7. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 10 December 2013 13: 01 New
      0
      Quote: Soldier's grandson
      I understand

      brave claim
    8. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 10 December 2013 13: 01 New
      0
      Quote: Soldier's grandson
      I understand

      brave claim
  12. The comment was deleted.
  13. Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 10 December 2013 13: 00 New
    +1
    Quote: Normal
    Mercedes is not a "firm"

    it’s already particular and you stupidly find fault with the words and not the point, you don’t like this comparison, here’s another thing for you - a sewing factory and a private trader engaged in sewing, the quality of the second will be much higher, the price is more expensive, the volume is less if you go to leave only private traders we will walk naked
  • The comment was deleted.
  • soldier's grandson
    soldier's grandson 9 December 2013 15: 34 New
    +5
    it’s absolutely true, the way it is, farmers cannot single-handedly provide the whole country with agricultural products, they need state support, they need to be completely exempted from taxes, they need to be provided with agricultural equipment and fuels and lubricants, or agricultural enterprises should be created with full state support
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 15: 42 New
      +4
      Quote: Soldier's grandson
      farmers alone cannot provide ...

      a small farmer, in principle, will not be able to provide, 1) insufficient volume, 2) high cost (with higher quality than in a large enterprise)
      The small private owner and the "collective farm" are not competitors to each other; they are two different market segments.
      uto someone can afford expensive meat grown on natural feeds, but someone can’t, and they want to eat everything, therefore, you also need cheap products, albeit not of the same high quality as the private seller’s products
    3. pl675
      pl675 9 December 2013 17: 11 New
      +4
      Quote: soldier's grandson
      it’s absolutely true, the way it is, farmers cannot single-handedly provide the whole country with agricultural products, they need state support, they need to be completely exempted from taxes, they need to be provided with agricultural equipment and fuels and lubricants, or agricultural enterprises should be created with full state support


      from my communication with a classmate, he has been "on the ground" since childhood - you do not need to do any of the above.
      it is enough to remove the Central Asian-Caucasian layer between the peasant and the consumer - everyone will be fed normal foods for normal money.
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 17: 14 New
        0
        Quote: pl675
        it is enough to remove the Central Asian-Caucasian layer between the peasant and the consumer - everyone will be fed normal foods for normal money.

        sorry will not
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. pl675
          pl675 9 December 2013 17: 19 New
          +2
          sorry will not

          I believe you.
          but I believe my eyes more -
          I buy all agricultural products from grandparents. starting with cucumbers and ending with wine. Yes, I live in paradise.
        2. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 17: 36 New
          0
          Quote: pl675
          I buy all agricultural products from grandparents. starting with cucumbers

          you proceed from personal possibilities - there is money, there is an opportunity to buy (go to these very grandmothers) how much will your grandmother grow cucumbers in your garden, neighbor, neighbor, neighbor, and the rest will watch ?!
    4. Very old
      Very old 9 December 2013 22: 55 New
      0
      Intermediaries, wrapping,
      Non-manufacturers?
      Then you are right
  • Che Guevara
    Che Guevara 9 December 2013 20: 16 New
    +6
    A vivid example of Belarus. The father of the collective farm has now been preserved even in Kazakhstan we are eating dairy and meat products from the agricultural enterprises of Belarus, but our meat was not enough, we imported from Brazil and China, although in the USSR the whole SA ate Semipalatinsk stew and livestock per capita Kazakhstan’s population was in the 3rd world leaders (Australia and New Zealand ahead), although now the land is not spit private, sheep and cows everywhere, but industrial production, with institutes, laboratories is mute. Capitalism damn it.
    1. Very old
      Very old 9 December 2013 23: 13 New
      0
      1956 year.
      Grandmothers on a bench - Semipalatinsk is the best
      In!
  • Starina_hank
    Starina_hank 9 December 2013 21: 57 New
    0
    But how did we, under the tsar, feed ourselves and sell to others?
    1. Landwarrior
      Landwarrior 12 December 2013 08: 35 New
      0
      Quote: Starina_Hank
      But how did we, under the tsar, feed ourselves and sell to others?

      You forget that at that time Russia was almost completely an agrarian country. Yes, they sold bread, but only one thing: but what did the money go from selling bread to the west? Yes, they didn’t go anywhere, they remained in the West in the same place. With this money, RI bought what it did not produce itself. The analogy with modern Russia is evident, but instead of bread, right now mineral resources. Yes, which we produce, but here are just a lot of things we buy over the hill. hi
  • The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • SPLV
    SPLV 9 December 2013 11: 58 New
    +6
    Quote: bairat
    and there was nothing to eat in it

    Well done! Continue the work of Gorbachev! That just started with this.
    Indeed, there was nothing to eat after the war. Tell me, if there was nothing to eat in 70 and 80, how could people survive, where mass starvation of death? Or did Vlasov, Jabotinsky and the USSR hockey team eat you up? Probably not enough black caviar? In Soviet times, I experienced hunger only through my own fault, when I went out with friends without food. And millions of people in 90 were not able to feel it of their own free will.
  • Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 9 December 2013 08: 39 New
    10
    A generation has grown up for which the USSR was both a prison of peoples and a source of all ills for their unfortunate states, so they were brought up. Therefore, the reconstruction of the USSR is unlikely to succeed - there is no new I.V. Stalin. It's a pity hi
    1. 10kAzAk01
      10kAzAk01 9 December 2013 08: 49 New
      +8
      A generation has grown up for which the USSR was both a prison of peoples and a source of all ills for their unfortunate states, so they were brought up. Therefore, the reconstruction of the USSR is unlikely to succeed - there is no new I.V. Stalin. A pity hi

      You can argue with you ... 5 years of active propaganda and youth will be for the idea of ​​uniting peoples ...
      1. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee 9 December 2013 09: 22 New
        10
        And I will not argue ... Only who will promote?
        There are no personalities like I.V. Stalin. There are only "effective managers" left, and you know their abilities!
        1. yan
          yan 9 December 2013 09: 29 New
          19
          the surest way to manage effectively
          1. Uncle lee
            Uncle lee 9 December 2013 09: 40 New
            11
            For "counter bourgeois" - I agree!
          2. Vasia kruger
            Vasia kruger 9 December 2013 11: 06 New
            +2
            War communism is the best crisis management.
            1. Prometey
              Prometey 9 December 2013 11: 20 New
              +6
              Quote: Vasia Kruger
              War communism is the best crisis management.

              If in relation to the oligarchs - then yes, but if in relation to the bulk of the population - then state gangsterism.
        2. 10kAzAk01
          10kAzAk01 9 December 2013 09: 49 New
          +3
          There are no personalities like I.V. Stalin. Only "effective managers" remained

          for propaganda a person can be "blind", remember the times of the USSR, Zoya Kosmedemyanskaya, Marat Kazei, Lenya Golikov, etc. etc. a precedent is needed ... I feel a precedent on the Maidan will soon "happen"
          1. Uncle lee
            Uncle lee 9 December 2013 10: 25 New
            11
            It is possible to "blind" a person, but whether it will be a PERSONALITY is the main question.
            "There are few real violent,
            So there are no leaders "
  • soldier's grandson
    soldier's grandson 9 December 2013 08: 58 New
    10
    in order to re-create the USSR, it is necessary to nationalize resources, the Kremlin will not do that, the heads of the nearest republics will not do either, our great poo will not come off the pipe
    1. Starina_hank
      Starina_hank 9 December 2013 22: 04 New
      +1
      In order to recreate the union, a powerful Slavic state is needed, neighbors will unwittingly stick themselves to a strong state!
  • pensioner
    pensioner 9 December 2013 09: 11 New
    18
    Forgive me, the author will forgive me, but I didn’t even read the article ... There is no mental strength to relive this tragedy again ... Even on such a microscopic scale ... I hope retribution will overtake all the traitors, even after their death.
    1. My address
      My address 9 December 2013 10: 18 New
      +9
      Hi, Jura!

      And how to evaluate the actions of Mitka Medvedev am , demonstratively in the 2011-th awarded Michael the Spotted am Order of Andr. The First-Called ?! And in 2012 he personally handed over the order to Michael ?!
      1. pensioner
        pensioner 9 December 2013 10: 54 New
        +9
        ABOUT! Sasha! Hello! drinks Well, how, how ... Like another spit in the soul. Supplemented, in any way ... He’s about a year old ... He will survive to his own execution. Hunchback, unfortunately, will die. Sorry...
      2. Vasia kruger
        Vasia kruger 9 December 2013 11: 07 New
        +5
        Quote: My address
        Hi, Jura!

        And how to evaluate the actions of Mitka Medvedev am , demonstratively in the 2011-th awarded Michael the Spotted am Order of Andr. The First-Called ?! And in 2012 he personally handed over the order to Michael ?!



        Like a betrayal.
      3. My address
        My address 9 December 2013 11: 07 New
        10
        I answer myself. Just got it.
        Mitek without Michael's betrayal would have been an unhappy, petty law teacher in every sense. By reward he thanked the traitor and expressed contempt for us.
        My, as he sees this Mitka on TV, spits and calls him very offensive words. Pompous, narcissistic, silly smiling laughing .
      4. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 9 December 2013 11: 43 New
        11
        Quote: My address
        And how to evaluate the actions of Mitka Medvedev, who pointedly in 2011 awarded Mikhail the Spotted Order of André. The First-Called ?! And in 2012, he personally awarded the order to Michael ?!

        Just like this:
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 9 December 2013 11: 50 New
          -1
          Vladimir Putin on the collapse of the USSR

          1. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 9 December 2013 13: 32 New
            13
            Quote: Boris55
            Vladimir Putin on the collapse of the USSR

            From modesty, he clearly will not die, but about the "democrat" Sobchak - this is generally something laughing (although nothing surprising).
    2. Egoza
      Egoza 9 December 2013 11: 49 New
      10
      Quote: retired
      There is no mental strength to relive this tragedy again ... Even on such a microscopic scale ... I hope retribution will overtake all traitors, even after their death.

      Yura! Hello! No need to despair! We still have everything ahead! And there will be a new Stalin! In the most difficult hour, LEADERS appeared in Russia! And now it will be so! you just need to wish it with all your heart! In the end, even Vanga said "In the first quarter of the 21st century, the USSR will be reborn"! So we just have a little to wait and act - to educate young people, to promote OUR values! We need to live up to this moment, AND WE WILL LIVE!
      1. pensioner
        pensioner 9 December 2013 13: 17 New
        10
        Thank you Lenochka!! Comforted ... love And on the example of my son and his friends, I can say that Stalin is becoming more and more popular with young people. At least Starikov’s books about Stalin went hand in hand. Ok so let's go ...
        1. Che Guevara
          Che Guevara 9 December 2013 20: 29 New
          +2
          The fact that Starikov began to read pleases,
          I GIVE A LINK TO THE AUDIO BOOK (you can listen in the car, on the train, etc.) STALIN. REMEMBER TOGETHER
          http://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4224915
          I RECOMMEND TO ALL.
  • Prometey
    Prometey 9 December 2013 09: 14 New
    +6
    Quote: Soldier's grandson
    to re-create the USSR

    It is necessary for the Russian economy to enter at least a dozen of the world's economies and become an example for the closest neighbors - Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Belarus. However, apart from total corruption, crumbling infrastructure and uncontrolled growth in prices for basic services, we have nothing more to "boast" about. Well, even dubious projects like the Sochi Olympics.
    1. Setrac
      Setrac 9 December 2013 12: 52 New
      +2
      Quote: Prometey
      It is necessary that the Russian economy be included in at least the top ten economies in the world and become an example for its closest neighbors - Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Belarus.

      According to various estimates, the fifth or eighth world economy. What other examples are needed?
      1. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 9 December 2013 13: 33 New
        0
        Quote: Setrac
        According to various estimates, the fifth or eighth world economy

        In terms of GDP.
      2. Prometey
        Prometey 9 December 2013 18: 52 New
        +2
        Quote: Setrac
        Quote: Prometey
        It is necessary that the Russian economy be included in at least the top ten economies in the world and become an example for its closest neighbors - Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Belarus.

        According to various estimates, the fifth or eighth world economy. What other examples are needed?

        Here it is necessary to add such an indicator as the standard of living. Also in 5-8th place?
      3. Che Guevara
        Che Guevara 9 December 2013 20: 32 New
        +2
        In my opinion, the Russian Federation has 7 economies in the world, if Kazakhstan and Belarus are added here, I think we’ll be in the top five, just laziness
  • Lindon
    Lindon 9 December 2013 09: 18 New
    +7
    To the minus author. Too superficial. He didn’t really highlight the role of Gorbachev, but maybe he deliberately obscured his huge contribution. What exactly did Gorbachev do (briefly from memory):
    1) Introduced the fight against unearned income (and then suddenly allowed cooperatives, etc.)
    2) He violated the unwritten rules of relations between the "Center and the national republics" - this caused the growth of nationalism - since the rights were grossly violated.
    3) He discredited the Army and special services by suppressing the growth of nationalism which he himself provoked by interfering in the internal affairs of the republics.
    4) Gross errors and campaigning during the anti-alcohol campaign and publicity - everything has crossed all conceivable boundaries. The discredit of the CPSU and its role in the country began.
    5) Gorbachev naively (or consciously?) Believed to preserve the USSR’s house by dismantling such load-bearing structures: the Army and special services, the CPSU and communist ideology, the consensus of central and regional elites, interethnic harmony, private individual economic freedom and planned economy.

    The author naively believes the possibility of restoring the USSR, confusing it with the creation of a new entity (like the Eurasian Union). Otherwise, you will have to repeat the path of the Stalinist "cleansing" - the replacement of the bourgeois element and the cultivation of the Soviet man again? The Eurasian Union does not propose a return to a planned economy, but the construction of an analogue of the EU.
    1. olviko
      olviko 9 December 2013 10: 36 New
      13
      "Blunders and Campaign".

      I must disappoint you, this is not a mistake. Here are just some excerpts from the speech of MS. Gorbachev at a seminar at the American University in Turkey American University in Istanbul, 1999:
      "The goal of my whole life has been the destruction of communism, an unbearable dictatorship over people. I was fully supported by my wife, who understood the need for this even before I did. It was to achieve this goal that I used my position in the party and the country. That is why my wife is all time pushed me to consistently occupy a higher and higher position in the country. When I personally got acquainted with the West, I realized that I could not deviate from my goal. And to achieve it I had to replace the entire leadership of the CPSU and the USSR, as well as the leadership in all socialist countries. I managed to find associates in realizing these goals. Among them, A.N. Yakovlev and E.G. Shevardnadze occupy a special place, whose merits in our common cause are simply invaluable. A world without communism. will look better. ”An era of peace and shared prosperity will come after 2000. But there is still a force in the world that will impede our movement towards peace and creation. ah. I visited China during the big student demonstrations when it seemed that communism in China would fall. I was going to speak to the demonstrators on that huge square, express my sympathy and support to them and convince them that they must continue their struggle so that perestroika can begin in their country too.
      And so on and so forth, it’s not possible to list everything. The whole USSR rested on the power of the CPSU, from top to bottom. This villain certainly understood this perfectly well, it was a no brainer — the destruction of the CPSU, this is the destruction of the USSR!

      Source: Odessa Forum. http://odessaforum.0pk.ru/viewtopic.php?id=205
      © When copying materials, a reference to the source is obligatory. http://odessaforum.0pk.ru
  • KLIM
    KLIM 9 December 2013 09: 25 New
    12
    The collapse continues. The old ideology was taken away from the population, but a new one was never created, education and science are being destroyed. The industry has practically ceased to exist in 28 years. The younger generation, trained in the new education system, is, for the most part, an amorphous mass that does not know the history of their country and is not accustomed to independent thinking. From 1985 to 2013, everything was ruined. During the same 28 years of Soviet power from 1917 to 1945, we went through three wars each time restoring the country, developing education, industry, science, and eventually becoming a state with indisputable authority - and today our democratic leaders call this an ineffective state system. While such "figures" rule the country, there can be no talk of any unity of peoples.
  • vlbelugin
    vlbelugin 9 December 2013 09: 26 New
    13
    How they hate everything Soviet. It has become fashionable to vulgarize everything that is Soviet. Right now I am listening to the morning entertainment program on St. Petersburg TV - Channel 5. There is a clown with a butterfly, the presenter, talking about alarm clocks for some reason, remembered the "Soviet alarm clock" for some reason in a bucket. But why? Maybe his grandfather had such an alarm clock? So it was his grandfather who put the alarm clock in the bucket. What does the Soviet have to do with it?
    Do not calm down bastards. So Soviet times were worthy. And now these creatures, for whatever reason, are blaming the Soviet era.
    1. ziqzaq
      ziqzaq 9 December 2013 11: 26 New
      +7
      Quote: vlbelugin
      There is a clown with a butterfly, the presenter, speaking about alarms, for some reason remembered the "Soviet alarm clock" for some reason in a bucket

      Lovers of "sleep" set an alarm clock in a bucket or pan, while there were no cell phones with a "vibro-alarm clock" ....
      Liberasts really need to pour mud at that wonderful time, so that they themselves do not look as smelly as they really are .....
      Anecdote in the topic:
      Old friends gathered to celebrate the meeting, they have not seen each other for a long time. Drank "little white", talked for life, well, stayed up until night ... Then one of the guests asks the owner:
      Seryoga, why do you have an iron basin hanging on the wall?
      This is an alarm clock - Sergey answers.
      Oh well, and how does it work? - the guests are asking.
      Sergey comes to the basin and begins to hit him. From behind the walls a voice:
      Three in the morning, as much as you can ...
  • groin
    groin 9 December 2013 09: 29 New
    +8
    Most families (USSR) are falling apart because of "everyday life". There is little money, the wrong things, etc. This is especially acute when the neighbors (the West) have the opposite. And our "everyday life" and a beautiful picture from the West - a long-term development of special services at the behest of the world's financial tycoons. And our specialists lost here. And all the names in the article, our feelings and actions at that moment, these are the actors and the entourage to a terrible performance called the collapse of the USSR. Not all neighbors act like neighbors, many cannot sleep because of envy. For the republics of the former USSR, the Chinese wisdom "A neighbor is closer than a distant relative" is appropriate.
  • albatross
    albatross 9 December 2013 10: 12 New
    0
    An article about nastaligia on the past. But having noticed Yeltsin and the planned collapse, they don’t notice the execution of Tsar Nikolai, with family. It all started with that. A happy blood society cannot be built, time has proved it. First, the expropriators were expropriated, then the expropriators were expropriated. In Russian: twice shod.
    1. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 9 December 2013 10: 29 New
      +9
      And then the shooters were shot ...
      1. EwgenyZ
        EwgenyZ 9 December 2013 13: 07 New
        +1
        Yurovsky, Nikulin, Ermakov, Medvedev / Kudrin (!) Died their deaths. Only two were overtaken by a bullet of Medvedev and Voikov. So not everyone was shot. Vladimir Ilyich and Yakov Mikhailovich (the versions of the beating and poisoning have not yet been confirmed) also, quite themselves, died on their own ...
    2. user
      user 9 December 2013 12: 37 New
      +8
      "they do not notice the execution of Tsar Nicholas, with his family."

      I already wrote about this. There was no king. The whole tsar ended when he (which is especially important, voluntarily) abdicated in favor of his brother Mikhail, the prince remained (albeit a great one, but princes in Russia are like uncut dogs) at that time that there was no Cheka, but also the Bolsheviks who sat, who "knocked around" abroad, and it was the most democratically elected Duma. It was Nicholas II who began his reign from Khodynka. I do not support the story of the execution, but the facts should not be distorted. It was after the renunciation that a series of events began that continue today.
    3. Landwarrior
      Landwarrior 12 December 2013 08: 42 New
      0
      Quote: albatross
      First, the expropriators were expropriated, then the expropriators were expropriated. In Russian: twice shod.

      But nothing surprising. Each previous repressive machine prepares a place for the next.
      You can not even cite the USSR as an example, but the French Revolution. hi
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 9 December 2013 10: 18 New
    +7
    In our post-Soviet society, which is imposed on "liberal" ideas, and even in a perverted form, it is difficult to achieve a fair trial over the ideologists of the collapse of the USSR. In the former Soviet republics (mainly Central Asia), almost medieval relations were established. which are led to the multi-million migration of the disadvantaged population. Heaps of former partomenclature workers captured extractive industries and shake their sky-high profits. They will never allow the restoration of the USSR. And what about Russia? If the main initiator of the collapse of the Soviet Union is awarded the highest order of Russia, comments are unnecessary ...
  • Ivan Pomidorov
    Ivan Pomidorov 9 December 2013 10: 57 New
    +5
    The current trials that fell to the lot of the peoples of the USSR are not accidental and not in vain.
    The USSR had many shortcomings; from afar, only the good is remembered, the bad is forgotten.
    The new reunion, I hope, will be more sustainable, if only because we all got
    a good "inoculation" from carelessness and irresponsibility to the fate of their country.
    Now we know what it is. Now mother Russia will gather silushki to send
    far away from the western jackals and will be able to take under their wing all the nations that previously lived in the world
    and consent. I think it will be so.
    The USSR does not make sense to restore, there are no longer those bonds and ideologies that connected it.
    We need new ideas of brotherhood and good neighborliness, understandable and beneficial to most citizens
    all post-Soviet republics.
    And the leadership of countries joining the union should bear strict responsibility before
    Union for the observance of the interests of the Union, as a guarantor of the general positive development of all
    members of the union of countries.
  • pluginigor
    pluginigor 9 December 2013 11: 08 New
    +8
    To summarize: I read all the comments, all for the USSR and against Judas. There is only one conclusion! I think everyone is clear.
    1. morpex
      morpex 9 December 2013 12: 28 New
      +7
      Quote: pluginigor
      To summarize: I read all the comments, all for the USSR and against Judas. There is only one conclusion! I think everyone is clear.

      And someone will take our conclusion into account? Logically, both in Russia and Ukraine, power under the Constitution belongs to the people. and he must decide how to live. But somehow our authorities do not really listen to these people. Conclusion - the current structure of power, we can only dream and nostalgic about that Great Country and our conclusions and desires for them deeply ...
  • sasska
    sasska 9 December 2013 11: 11 New
    +5
    Quote: Greenwood
    I feel that he still has to walk overgrown for a long time. Unless Gorbach dies of old age.

    (dreamily) well, maybe the advertised pizza will gobble up
  • P-15
    P-15 9 December 2013 11: 30 New
    10
    He recalled an old joke:
    Restructuring, the period of the anti-alcohol company. A man stands on Red Square opposite the Spasskaya Tower and looks thoughtfully at his watch. A guard comes up to him with a question - what are you looking for?
    Man: - Yes, I think if this watch were like a time machine, then I would unscrew the hands back until the time when Gorbachev was conceived and forced his mother to have an abortion.
  • Bakht
    Bakht 9 December 2013 11: 54 New
    13
    Nostalgia is a pleasant thing. But dangerous. Creates illusions. Even the ancients said that it was impossible to enter the same river twice. Recreating not just the USSR, but a normally functioning CIS is impossible. And the farther, the less likely. Living outside of Russia, I see a tendency, so to speak, from the outside. Young people speak Russian worse and worse. Young people are worse off at the idea of ​​unification. Most young people are aimed at the West. Consumer society is a tempting thing. For some reason everyone thinks that they will be the ones to consume. Nobody wants to believe that they will consume.

    The task should be set a little differently. In the Eurasian space, Russia remains the number 1. So far, nambra van. :-) If the disintegration processes continue, then not for long. Therefore, an alliance with Russia at this stage, the former union is unprofitable. I speak with pain, as a citizen of the USSR and Russophile. If Russia can tidy up its internal affairs and stop the processes of separatism, restore order in industry and strengthen economically, then the attitude will change.

    But while people like the Bear are sitting in the Kremlin, talking about it is simply not serious. The man is clearly inadequate. Over the past year, at least three times, he said live, for which the term should be life-long. I can’t say anything about the president. But, judging by some indirect data, he is the same as Yeltsin and other bullshit liberals. So the Russian leadership mainly looks to the West.

    What is the meaning of the former republics to unite with the servant of the West if you can unite with the owner? They’ll have it anyway. So maybe even pay.

    The site is Russian and the problems of Russia should be discussed. Do not think that I have any complaints against Russia. Just take it as a fact. There is no sense in uniting with today's Russia. If I say such a thing, you can imagine what the outcome of the referendum will be.

    Summary. The article is good. But the project is not feasible.
    1. SPLV
      SPLV 9 December 2013 12: 17 New
      +5
      Quote: Bakht
      Summary. The article is good. But the project is not feasible.

      Then:
      1. United Kievan Rus - 1000 year.
      2. Separate principalities - several centuries.
      3. United Russia, Russia and the USSR 500 years.
      4. CIS, TS -?
      5. MegaRussia -?
      wink
  • Dan Slav
    Dan Slav 9 December 2013 12: 03 New
    +4
    Thanks to the time in which we lived!
    We saw a prosperous Power, which was reckoned with and which was an example for the rest of the world.
    It provided an opportunity for the working class and ordinary people around the world to live a normal life, as there was a clear and clear example before their eyes.
    Surrendered to the country special services. They sniffed among themselves and sold their homeland. Without these shit, nothing would have happened.
  • VADEL
    VADEL 9 December 2013 12: 07 New
    +8
    About life in the era of the USSR, you can write volumes. There were many pluses and minuses more than enough. The main thing is that in those days people were kinder, helped each other, celebrated holidays merrily with songs and festivities. For the education of the child, there was no need to worry about work. To write, not to rewrite (please emphasize correctly). And at the expense of the collapse of the union, I visited the former republics. In Lithuania on New Year's Eve 1982 a crowd of young people went and screamed a fascist salute, the road was there for them, in Central Asia, to put it mildly, there was a semi-Soviet power with its beks and bays, they had their own way, etc. hi
  • Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 9 December 2013 12: 17 New
    +6
    In all this, it is "touches" to appeal to the so-called "will of the people." Let's honestly answer one question to ourselves, when, by and large, did the so-called will of the people worry one of the rulers? NEVER and ANYWHERE!
    There was a united Russia of Yaroslav the Wise, literally overnight it was pulled apart by his sons. Have the people asked? We fought with each other. By the "will of the people"? The center of forces began to move to Moscow, under which Russia began to unite again. Not otherwise than by the will of the people ... Etc., etc. up to this day.
  • Algor73
    Algor73 9 December 2013 13: 05 New
    +4
    To find something you need to lose. History shows that the power of states in their union. Remembering the USSR, we remember only the best, while forgetting (or not remembering) the negative, which was also a lot. The union rested on strength and idea. And power was in the leading role of the party. The CU is not a panacea (an example is the EU, which is cracking at the seams); it is impossible to build a united state by economic aspects alone. Need an idea. Or a special case. But what could be the idea when clans rule countries? Who wants to give back the overwork?
    PS Many complain that the collapse began since the time of Khrushchev. This is not true. The state developed, grew, developed technologies with which one cannot survive in a confined space. And when it grew, what needed to be changed, Gorbachev appeared. But, alas, it’s not at all the person who led the country in the right direction. More precisely, in the wrong direction. The starting point is precisely 1985.
  • morpogr
    morpogr 9 December 2013 13: 07 New
    +5
    THEY CRIMINALS AND PEOPLE HAVE SENTENCED THEM. GUILTY!
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 14: 11 New
      +7
      Quote: morpogr
      ... THE SENTENCE HAS TAKEN OUT

      but unfortunately the sentence was not carried out
  • soldier's grandson
    soldier's grandson 9 December 2013 13: 50 New
    +3
    Putin will never create the USSR, it is him and his team like a bone in the throat, on the contrary they will do everything against it and they will do it, privatization, cutting the budget on different projects, what is the Olympics worth, but does a simple hard worker need it ?, Skolkovo devouring huge money for staff support and the drug Kagocel, which kills the reproductive function of men, and at least Maskvabad is an abyss where money from all over Russia flows, constantly rising prices for fuel and lubricants and products, gold that does not belong to the people and goes to international banks, in general, the power of bankers hoisted the country on loans
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 14: 14 New
      -3
      Quote: Soldier's grandson
      but a simple hard worker needs it ?,

      if after the Olympics, at least 20 out of a hundred boys in the place of the gateway go in for sports, then the Olympiad will pay off 100%
      Quote: Soldier's grandson
      gold that does not belong to the people

      and what do you think gold belongs to the people? !!! winked
      1. soldier's grandson
        soldier's grandson 9 December 2013 14: 20 New
        +2
        and who do you think it belongs to? even if it does not linger in Russia?
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 14: 23 New
          +1
          Are you from Odessa ?!
          Well, in addition, I asked you what does gold mean to the people? !! about is there an ingot for everyone or what? !!
          1. soldier's grandson
            soldier's grandson 9 December 2013 14: 27 New
            0
            Well, just as oil and gas should belong, those should be a gold fund belonging to the country and not to a handful of oligarchs
            1. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 14: 32 New
              0
              What does the country mean? !!!
              the golden background already belongs to the country!
              without clearly spreading your thoughts, you can clearly explain where, how, who should have the PF, who should manage it and how
            2. The comment was deleted.
              1. soldier's grandson
                soldier's grandson 9 December 2013 14: 36 New
                +2
                I’ll explain in more detail, the gold mined in Russia does not remain inside the country, but goes to foreign banks, those abroad and nothing remains with us, we are a raw materials appendage
                1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                  Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 15: 29 New
                  0
                  Quote: Soldier's grandson
                  the mined gold in Russia does not remain inside the country, but goes to foreign banks, those abroad and nothing remains with us, we are a raw materials appendage

                  specifically how do you think you should handle gold ?! where and under what conditions should it be stored?
                  otherwise, forgive me, it reminds me - "I don't know how, but not so"
                  1. soldier's grandson
                    soldier's grandson 9 December 2013 15: 39 New
                    0
                    you understand that it does not belong to Russia at all, but it is mined from us, after mining it goes to foreign banks in the West and there it is disposed of at its discretion
                    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 15: 44 New
                      0
                      Quote: Soldier's grandson
                      understand that it does not belong to Russia at all ...

                      apparently you don’t quite understand, but oh well, specifically YOUR OFFER
                      1. soldier's grandson
                        soldier's grandson 9 December 2013 15: 49 New
                        +2
                        my suggestion is nationalization of resources
                      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 15: 53 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Soldier's grandson
                        my suggestion is nationalization of resources

                        sorry this blah blah show, that is, there are no offers, one criticism and quite illiterate
                      3. soldier's grandson
                        soldier's grandson 9 December 2013 16: 04 New
                        +2
                        I got the impression that I communicate with rotten hemp, all the best
                      4. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 16: 19 New
                        0
                        detailed response.
                        well, let's say you nationalized production, then what? !!!!!
                        how are you going to manage the gold reserve further, I'm sorry, but this relationship is very distant to mining.
                      5. The comment was deleted.
              2. The comment was deleted.
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 9 December 2013 15: 01 New
    -4
    Putin paid all the debts back in 2003-2004. Since then, they do not like him. So stop the heresy to carry.
    1. soldier's grandson
      soldier's grandson 9 December 2013 15: 04 New
      +3
      paid out of your pocket ?, and who dialed them?
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 15: 30 New
        -1
        Quote: Soldier's grandson
        and who got them?

        this is generally what? !!!
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. EvilLion
        EvilLion 9 December 2013 15: 38 New
        +3
        And who was Putin before the 2000 year? Illiteracy, it is worse than liberalism.
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 14: 12 New
    0
    what kind of garbage every post pops up twice ?!
    1. CTEPX
      CTEPX 9 December 2013 14: 23 New
      0
      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
      what kind of garbage every post pops up twice ?!

      They say "explorer" conflicts with our site)).
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 14: 36 New
        0
        Quote: ctepx
        They say "explorer" conflicts with our site)).

        and here it was not without ov !!! am
      2. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 14: 36 New
        0
        Quote: ctepx
        They say "explorer" conflicts with our site)).

        and here it was not without ov !!! am
  • 222222
    222222 9 December 2013 14: 27 New
    +4
    Lessons from the counter-revolution (at first he wrote "collapse, but ... it was not a collapse - it was a creeping counter revolution, committed by both internal and external forces ..):
    1. An economy based on energy exports is highly dependent on external influences. Whether it be the USSR, the Russian Federation or Saudi Arabia ... because of the control of the main areas of their production and transportation routes from the powerful ..
    2. The power of the army and even the presence of nuclear weapons and power structures do not guarantee a change of power in the state. And even the social system.
    3. The presence of one powerful ruling party in a state unchanged for 10 years does not guarantee its collapse and the collapse of the state.
    4. The artificial declaration of the multinational people of one state does not guarantee the national unity of peoples. “National self-determination and originality, no matter how they obscure it, goes to the first place for the self-determination of nations and peoples and the formation of national states. (Europe is still ahead ..)
    5. A prolonged and uncontrolled stay by the people in the highest power and party apparatus creates a new state community — a state party official who does not bear any responsibility for his affairs and actions and acts in his own selfish interests and often contrary to the interests of society and the state. Hierarchy of officials in the “seat” (Kremlin-Moscow-region – district – city – village ..) —the backbone of this monster and the driving force behind their career growth, often independent of the knowledge, skills and abilities in managing complex structures. The presence of 2 = x state laws, for authorities of different levels and people only contributes to the growth of the monster’s ambitions and appetites .. This is the “governing revolution”. Leading to the opportunity to ..
    6. "Erosion from the inside" - the main way to collapse any system ...
    There are three components: power-people-abroad ...
    Power officials ”grew out of their pants. “They were no longer satisfied with state ownership of the means of production. Since being “in communism” with a lot of privileges for each circle of power, depending on the application of the 5th point, when “tripping” it lost everything .. and the change of ownership made them and their children. grandchildren .. hereditary by private property ..
    “The first and only president of the USSR Mikhail Gorbachev in 2012 received from the hands of the head of the Russian state Dmitry Medvedev the order of the Holy Apostle Andrew the First-Called, which he was awarded in March last year,
    Accepting the award, Gorbachev admitted that he was experiencing excitement and gratitude. “I accept the highest award of the Russian state with excitement and gratitude. Before my eyes, my whole life passes. I’m not ashamed of what I’ve done,
    Abroad correctly found a weak link in the system of power of the USSR, for which I pulled .. having created a network of agents of my influence and promoting them to various government and party posts up to the highest ..
    No need for nuclear wars and military incursions - to find dissatisfied inside the structure - to water well - to cultivate and go on ... to the orange outrages ...
    1. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 9 December 2013 15: 00 New
      +2
      Quote: 222222
      it was a creeping counter revolution
      Exactly.

      Abroad correctly found the weak link in the system of power of the USSR, for which she pulled .. creating a network of agents of her influence
      And this is nonsense: do not influence the thief in order for him to steal.
      1. 222222
        222222 9 December 2013 15: 14 New
        +3
        Yarosvet (6) RU Today, 15:00 ↑ And this is nonsense ...
        everything in the world is perishable ..
        1. Dallas plan for the collapse of the USSR
        2. Protocols of the Zionist sages .. (? They say that a fake ???)
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 9 December 2013 15: 22 New
          +2
          Quote: 222222
          Protocols of the Zion wise men .. (? They say that a fake ???)


          “Zion Protocols” - the authenticity of which was proved in court in Switzerland in 1930, and no one but Zionist propaganda raises doubts. The protocols themselves: http://klin.ucoz.net/forum/15-76-1
        2. Yarosvet
          Yarosvet 9 December 2013 15: 52 New
          0
          Quote: 222222
          1. Dallas plan for the collapse of the USSR
          Stop watching ren TV, the Dulles plan is fake, although there have probably been many prepared such strategies.

          2. Protocols of the Zionist sages .. (? They say that a fake ???)
          The issue is controversial and of no special significance: everything that is in the protocols is in the Tanakh and Talmud.
          1. 222222
            222222 9 December 2013 17: 49 New
            +1
            Yarosvet (6) RU Today, 15:52 ↑
            NSC 68: United States Objectives and Programs for National Security
            (April 14, 1950)

            A report to the president
            Pursuant to the President's Directive
            of January 31, 1950

            TOP SECRET

            [Washington,] April 7, 1950
            http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nsc-hst/nsc-68.htm

            notice -fas.org the site of the federation of American scientists .....
            By the way, the background of the US budget this year highlighted many sites that are on state payment .. they were not updated until the loot did not go ..
            1. Yarosvet
              Yarosvet 9 December 2013 19: 15 New
              -1
              Quote: 222222
              And?
              1. 222222
                222222 9 December 2013 19: 22 New
                0
                Yarosvet (6) RU Today, 19:15 ↑ New IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII. ???? .bach ,.
                fake from FAS ....... ohrenet..IIIIIIIIIIIIIIII ....

                Sergey Kurginyan about the elite and not only ..http: //politobzor.net/show-9194-mina-pod-sssr.html
      2. Boris55
        Boris55 9 December 2013 15: 18 New
        0
        Quote: Yarosvet
        And this is nonsense: do not influence the thief in order for him to steal.

        Thieves are not born - they become thieves.
        Under the influence of a particular ideology, a worldview is being formed. In ideological terms, the CPSU lost the war. The collapse of the USSR is the result of an established worldview of the elite.

        ps
        So what kind of power is higher: legislative, whose laws did not save the USSR from dismemberment, or ideological, which without a single shot destroyed the country together with its laws and imposed its own laws?
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion 9 December 2013 15: 39 New
      +2
      The economy based on the export of mobile phones is even more dependent, you can live without mobile phones.
      1. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 9 December 2013 16: 11 New
        +2
        Quote: Boris55
        “Zion Protocols” - the authenticity of which was proved in court in Switzerland in 1930, and no one but Zionist propaganda raises doubts.
        They are not in doubt only among you, Boris (apparently because of your penchant for mysticism and conspiracy theology).

        The "authenticity" was "proved" not in the 30th, but in the 37th, and the court of appeal (in the 35th the authenticity was completely refuted), and this is suggestive: after all, a rapidly developing Germany was sticking out next to Switzerland, the official policy which became anti-Semitism.


        Quote: Boris55
        Thieves are not born - they become thieves
        Sometimes they are born (especially the nervous system, mental activity, hormonal balance, etc.)

        Under the influence of a particular ideology, a worldview is formed
        The current Russian Federation has a liberal (in a good sense) - a socialist ideology that has the status of the Basic Law - does it form a strong worldview?

        In ideological terms, the CPSU lost the war. The collapse of the USSR is the result of an established worldview of the elite
        Do not confuse declarations with reality: first, the upper ranks were reborn, and only then real deeds were knocked out from under the right words, thereby purposefully discrediting the right words.

        So what kind of power is higher: legislative, whose laws did not save the USSR from dismemberment, or ideological, which without a single shot destroyed the country together with its laws and imposed its own laws?
        The power of public control over the institutions of power, which society was deprived of Khrushchev & ko.
        1. Boris55
          Boris55 9 December 2013 16: 36 New
          -1
          Quote: Yarosvet
          Sometimes born
          I'm not talking about those 5-10% deviations from the norm, but about the average.

          The current Russian Federation has a liberal (in a good sense) - a socialist ideology that has the status of the Basic Law - does it form a strong worldview?
          Art. 13. The variety of ideologies ... where did you find the socialist ...
          Do you think the youth of 50 is absolutely similar to today's?

          top reborn first
          What prompted them to do this?

          The power of public control over institutions of power ...
          There are a variety of societies on planet earth. European society is different from Russian - how?
          Which society has the power to control trust?
          1. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 9 December 2013 17: 25 New
            +1
            Quote: Boris55
            where did you find the socialist
            Open the dictionary already and see what ideology is, and then re-read the first 2 chapters of the Constitution.

            Do you think the youth of 50 is absolutely similar to today's?
            Youth at all times is similar, although not absolutely (absolutely, even representatives of today's youth are different)

            What motivated them to do this
            lack of control.

            There are a variety of societies on planet earth. European society is different from Russian - how?
            Cultural stereotypes differ.

            Which society has the power to control trust?
            Society, in the existing context, is the totality of all citizens of a country.
            1. Boris55
              Boris55 9 December 2013 18: 10 New
              -2
              Quote: Yarosvet
              Open the dictionary already and see what ideology is ...

              Ideological power.

              Ideological power puts the concept of social management in attractive forms for the masses of people, or at least for a managerially significant share of the population. Ideology is a form of manifestation of the concept of management in certain historical conditions of the development of society. Many ideologies can correspond to one concept, which generates many parties in one country, which is observed in the "democratic" countries of the West, and now in Russia. In all these countries, society is ideologically divided and lives according to the biblical project of buying up the world through usurious interest, which is legalized by the doctrine of Deuteronomy - Isaiah, which corresponds to the concept of evil.

              In a crowd of “elitist” society, the content of the concept can be arbitrarily far from the attractive forms and declarations of propagandists of good intentions. Such an attractive and veiled form that carries the ideology of the biblical concept in the global historical process is Judo-Christianity: Judaism, which carries ideology for the “race of masters,” and the post-Nikonian Orthodox Church (now the Russian Orthodox Church), which carries ideology for the crowd (slaves). The same form that carries the ideology of the biblical concept for the Muslim world is historical Islam, which violates the moral standards of the Koran. The secular modification of the biblical concept, its ideology, is Marxism.
              1. Boris55
                Boris55 9 December 2013 18: 10 New
                -1
                Explanation:

                In 1654 year (666 years after the official "Christianization" of Kievan Rus - 988 year), with the filing of Patriarch Nikon, church reform was carried out in Russia. As a result of the Nikonian reform in the state “Christian” religion of Russia, its Vedic branch with the Russian traditions of Orthodoxy originating from paganism was destroyed. Instead of the destroyed traditions of Orthodoxy, the reformers made a formal substitution: the Christian Orthodox Church was renamed the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC), using the fact that, long before the "Christianization" of Russia, our ancestors justifiably called themselves Orthodox. (About this in the explanation of the section "Vedic culture, the present and the future of mankind", Chapter 5).

                The "Christian values" of churches after the Ecumenical Council in Nicaea (325 AD), and Marxism are two faces of the Biblical concept, since hierarchs of churches and communist parties equally protect in silence the activities of international Jewish usurious clans on supranational management of a foreign economy by usury lending . Moreover, “elitist privileges under Marxism-Trotskyism (pseudo-socialism) are taken for granted by default. Therefore, it is not surprising that Perestroika, which began in the USSR with the ideas of economic acceleration, socialism with a human face and the fight against drunkenness, was transformed for each thesis into its opposite. Hence the conclusion: the meaning of ideology in the crowd-"elite" society is to hide the true goals of governance.


                At present, our state does not have its own ideology; it is not even provided for by the Constitution of the country. ^ In Russia, the ideology of consumerism and “making” money, alien to the Russian people, dominates, which, according to the announcement, proclaims “human rights and freedoms,” and by default is aimed at molesting young people, demoralizing and degrading the population, destroying Russian culture and enslaving all the peoples of Russian multinational civilization . It is time to immediately make a crucial decision on the transformation of Russia - on the transition to a righteous ideology, which should reflect the national ideal, corresponding to the vitality of rational humanity of good will. We are talking about a bright, pure, righteous, humane and truly humanistic ideology that insists on one’s own right to be oneself and recognizes the same right for others. Ideological power should be concentrated in the hands of the people, in its elected People’s organ of ideological power. The main function of this ideological authority should be the management of information flows in society, including: ensuring the information security of the country's population; control and coordination of the actions of all mass media (not to be confused with censorship), television, cinema, theaters and other means expressing the culture and principles of human behavior.
                1. Boris55
                  Boris55 9 December 2013 18: 12 New
                  -1
                  Explanation:

                  Information security - ensuring a stable course of the process of managing the Object (self-management of the Object), within the limits of permissible deviations from the ideal prescribed regime, in the context of targeted external or internal attempts to withdraw the managed Object from the prescribed regime.

                  To control - to take care that everything is done in accordance with the norms and laws in force in the country.

                  Coordinate - to connect, unite, synchronize common actions and efforts.

                  JV Stalin, understanding the importance of ideology and ideological power, during his reign, the country whose territory occupied 1 / 6 part of the planet’s land, was personally involved in managing information flows, “filtering” NEGATIVE and POSITIVE, giving the “way” to POSITIVE in people's creativity different types of art. “The style reflecting strength of mind and a healthy body should prevail in the paintings. “No depressing freaks!”, - so JV Stalin instructed and directed people of art. The main directions of painting and sculpture of those years were: Soviet man engaged in labor; Soviet man on vacation; Soviet sportsman; Soviet man in the army; large-scale paintings of Soviet construction; happy Soviet children; historical and heroic themes and other topics from the life of the people.

                  ^ The music of I.V. Stalin also paid great attention. “Dynamism, energy, but most importantly - melody. No cacophony! ”- said I.V. Stalin.

                  The Stalinist journalism of those years is a special kind of art. This is a genuine journalistic work, providing for: a clear definition of the topic; collection of facts; literary construction, plot and stylistic, that is, not just to communicate a fact, but to show a positive example, and when necessary - a negative one.

                  The accusation of the period of those years in the absence of democratic "freedoms" is a LIE! The Constitution of the country 1936 of the year, popularly called "Stalinist", states: "Art. 125. In accordance with the interests of the working people (emphasized by us) and in order to strengthen the socialist system, citizens of the USSR are guaranteed: a) freedom of speech; b) freedom of the press; c) freedom of assembly and rallies; d) freedom of street processions and demonstrations. ”

                  Another thing is that after the death of I.V. Stalin, the "interests of the working people" began to be determined first by the "Khrushchev", then the "Brezhnev", and then the "Gorbachev" party "elite" (Politburo and the Central Committee of the CPSU). This “discredited” socialist freedoms. Freedom of speech is not “freedom of idle talk” when “they talk with impunity” to please the West (hushing up questions and suggestions that are crucial for the country), at the same time instilling in our souls a panic that destroys negative life, plunging them into depression and hopelessness, which generally works for the moral decay of society and the destruction of the country. Freedom of speech, this is an objective TRUTH, even if it’s “bitter,” but it is the TRUTH OF OUR LIFE, for which we ourselves must be accountable to ourselves, our descendants and God. Stalin's journalism is an outstanding example when journalists helped and inspired to build a LIGHT future, but nevertheless Trotskyist N. Khrushchev with his minions he managed, having deceived the people, “to turn out a light bulb” and plunge the country into darkness.

                  I.V. Stalin paid special attention to the quality of film production. Films before 1953 of release exceeded Hollywood ones. Once, after watching the film "Circus" by Alexandrov, the famous American comedian C. Chaplin admitted: "We are not able to do this in Hollywood ...". And I.V. Stalin himself, once, having watched the pre-war film “A guy from our city,” said: “This film is worth the division.”
                  1. Boris55
                    Boris55 9 December 2013 18: 12 New
                    -1
                    Extension

                    I.V. Stalin personally controlled the creation of works of art from ideas to their implementation. He is the true master of the matrix of his era. On his initiative, at the People's Commissariat of Culture, Unions of Artists, Composers, Journalists, Writers, Theater Workers, Cinematographers, Architects were created, which were given the CREATIVE DIRECTION OF CREATIVITY. And for some time, even after the death of I.V. Stalin, they worked in self-government for the benefit of our people and country. Thus, I.V. Stalin exercised control over creativity, its creative direction, thereby he carried out structureless management together with masters of art, that is, he carried out the education of generations in line with the righteousness of Russian multinational civilization.

                    Nowadays, the management of information flows that extend to Russia is carried out by the "world behind the scenes" - the owners of Hollywood. It is they who set the DESTRUCTIVE DIRECTION of “creativity”, NEGATIVE is sown, and the themes of works of art, theater and cinema are continuous violence and criminal “showdowns”. Historical subjects are crammed with a distortion of facts directed against our glorious ancestors, the true patriots of their homeland. All this is done to suppress in our younger generation a positive outlook on the development of the individual and society in order to grow him weak-willed and depressed, deliberately preparing the fate of slaves for him.

                    Thus, modern Russia, not having its own ideology, has lost its ideological power and, having entrusted it to the ideologists of the West, is now unable to ensure the information security of its citizens. The population of the whole country is subjected to massive informational influence from an alien ideology aimed at the moral decay of the population and the corruption of young people, at falsifying the past, at destroying the present and depriving the future. (It is known that if you inspire a person with the consciousness of “WHAT he is,” he will soon learn to be THAT what he “should be”).
              2. Yarosvet
                Yarosvet 9 December 2013 18: 54 New
                0
                Boris, I repeat: open the dictionary (normal, not Kobov's .....)
                1. Boris55
                  Boris55 9 December 2013 18: 58 New
                  -1
                  We are talking about different things. I am about ideological AUTHORITY. You are about ideologies. We will not understand each other.
                  1. Yarosvet
                    Yarosvet 9 December 2013 19: 36 New
                    0
                    Quote: Boris55
                    We are talking about different things. I am about ideological AUTHORITY. You are about ideologies. We will not understand each other.

                    And why the hell are you repeating to me the Kobov dregs about ideological power, if before that the conversation was about ideology? smile
                    1. Boris55
                      Boris55 9 December 2013 19: 48 New
                      0
                      Probably because what kind of ideology will dominate - this is how life will be. The "variety of ideologies" enshrined in the constitution is a new verbiage in the old package - "pluralism of opinions". We are all aware of what this led the USSR to ...
                      1. Yarosvet
                        Yarosvet 9 December 2013 21: 52 New
                        0
                        Spruce the fire, Boris ...

                        Ideology is a system of values.

                        The ideology of the Russian Federation is the benefit of the individual person in particular and society as a whole (they are equivalent in the absence of force majeure and extreme situations, and all care for the person and society is the goal and meaning of the state)

                        No ideology (religious, atheist, social Darwinist, etc.) can be state due to the fact that it infringes on the rights of groups with a different system of values, but neither a state nor a person without ideology can exist, regardless of whether he wants to have it or not (just a value system is an integral part of the thought process).

                        But you picked up the idea somewhere that all the problems are due to the lack of ideology, you circulate this nonsense, never understanding what you are talking about.

                        That’s the ideology of the Russian Federation - does power follow it?
  • DAGESTAN333
    DAGESTAN333 9 December 2013 14: 54 New
    -2
    all the peoples of the USSR remember the great friendship of peoples that was then.
    - the author, once again say this, and you are stumbled on this site ...
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 9 December 2013 15: 00 New
    +6
    Something does not hurt, there are many who want to see Uzbeks and Tajiks in Russia. Enough, and then as in factories, so are all Russians, but as in a bazaar, so are all Uzbeks.

    Historical Russia, it is the Russian Federation, Belarus, Ukraine without western territories, where Russians were exterminated in WWI, some Galicians remained, part of Kazakhstan, which Khrushchev gave away. The Baltic countries, which had no statehood at all and was obtained by Peter I as a result of the Northern War, more precisely, Peter bought it from Sweden.

    The only reason for the entry of all these khanates at one time was that there were more independent problems with them than if you planted your administration. There’s nothing to fuck with them except Azerbaijan with its oil. So no one feels much regret about their separation.

    Back to the USSR there can be only one condition, no distinctive cultures, no national cadres, and the unity of laws for all, and not so that the Chuchmeks can, but not the Russian, or a normal empire with a dominant Russian population.
  • soldier's grandson
    soldier's grandson 9 December 2013 15: 08 New
    +3
    Quote: EvilLion
    Putin paid all the debts back in 2003-2004. Since then, they do not like him. So stop the heresy to carry.

    Russia's foreign debt is $ 624 billion as of November 1, 2013, this year it amounted to $ 83 billion
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 9 December 2013 15: 46 New
      -1
      Do you distinguish between state debt and other debts? Immediately obvious that no. The state external debt of the Russian Federation is several percent of GDP. http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public debt

      And 624 Lard is a debt for which the Russian Federation in many cases may not even answer, it is the debt of a variety of business entities.
      1. soldier's grandson
        soldier's grandson 9 December 2013 15: 51 New
        +3
        do not poke me, did not drink, did not sit at the table
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 9 December 2013 17: 08 New
          -3
          And why do you "kick"? For illiteracy?
          1. soldier's grandson
            soldier's grandson 9 December 2013 17: 11 New
            +4
            just argue with me, it’s not more literate, but your percentage of GDP is piz ... Well from DAM
            1. EvilLion
              EvilLion 9 December 2013 20: 52 New
              -3
              And who are you to take your opinion seriously?
              There is Google, go learn the materiel.
              1. soldier's grandson
                soldier's grandson 9 December 2013 20: 54 New
                +1
                what kind of attention to me? are you gay go yourself and teach, you don’t have to teach me
  • VADEL
    VADEL 9 December 2013 15: 12 New
    +4
    Once upon a time, they joked, sang, "the union of the hungry republics not destroyed ..."
    A joke of that time: Brezhnev and Carter exchanged secretaries. A month later, an encrypted message to Washington: "Mr. President, take me out of here URGENTLY. Fashion is changing, skirts are getting longer and longer, no one pays attention to ME." At the same time, our encrypted message was sent to Moscow: "Comrade General Secretary, URGENT call me back to the union. Fashion changes every day, the skirts are getting shorter and shorter - you can already see the holster and eggs." smile
  • uhjpysq1
    uhjpysq1 9 December 2013 15: 36 New
    +3
    you need to chip in an ice ax for the people's avenger. In vain is there a hunchback mark on his forehead.
  • EdwardTich68
    EdwardTich68 9 December 2013 15: 56 New
    -4
    Most funds went to the defense industry, the government of gerontocrats lagged behind the realities of life, west
    I took advantage of this. The result is deplorable. The only question is why the economy was not started to be transferred to civilian rails, at least in 1985.
    1. anip
      anip 9 December 2013 16: 42 New
      +2
      Quote: EdwardTich68
      . The only question is why the economy did not begin to be put on a civilian footing, at least in 1985.

      Not true! Generally speaking, the economy has always been civil, otherwise how would the country live at all? And in the last years of the USSR, its civil industry began to develop more and more, this is especially noticeable in household appliances and audio-video equipment. Its quality grew and in terms of its parameters the technique was more and more approaching the Western and Japanese counterparts of a high level. The same can be said for cars. Google at least UAZ-3172. Be surprised. Nothing worse than the current "Mercedes Gelendvagen".
      Sometimes it seems that it was because of the Hunchback that the West bought it at that time, because if they had been 5 years delayed, then the Anglo-Saxons and ... Masons would have NOTHING ANYTHING with the collapse of the USSR.
      1. anip
        anip 9 December 2013 17: 07 New
        +4
        Here is the UAZ-3172
        1. EdwardTich68
          EdwardTich68 9 December 2013 17: 52 New
          -8
          Don’t wake the beast in me, please. This is your only shot of the only car, it’s just ridiculous. In the USSR, up to 70% of GDP went to the military-industrial complex. If you certainly understand what I mean. When people have money and there’s nothing to buy, it’s called hidden inflation. The standard system speaks for itself, in the domestic sphere
          it was a disaster, it was precisely because of the disaster in the domestic sphere that the USSR disappeared.
          1. soldier's grandson
            soldier's grandson 9 December 2013 18: 03 New
            +6
            Well, by whose order in the 80s did they dig products into pits to create a deficiency and a coupon system? We had enough in the USSR until a hunchbacked mark came
            1. EdwardTich68
              EdwardTich68 9 December 2013 18: 42 New
              -6
              Only in your inflamed brain there are orders, pits and products buried in them in the USSR. Sorry, but it seems to me that you are writing from a mental hospital. wassat
              1. soldier's grandson
                soldier's grandson 9 December 2013 18: 45 New
                +3
                This was told to me by those who directly transported these products to the pits, in this case it was in Tashkent
                1. EdwardTich68
                  EdwardTich68 9 December 2013 19: 02 New
                  0
                  Then Gdlyan and Ivanov worked in Uzbekistan, maybe there they buried money in the foundation pit?
          2. EvilLion
            EvilLion 9 December 2013 20: 55 New
            +2
            My dear, I will tell you a terrible secret. The USSR spent about 50% of GDP on military needs only during the Second World War. In practice, even 10% only occurs when a country is at war.
            1. EdwardTich68
              EdwardTich68 9 December 2013 21: 25 New
              0
              That is, the whole huge stronghold worked for the national economy and as a result could not provide itself, excuse me for the expression, with toilet paper?
          3. anip
            anip 9 December 2013 23: 04 New
            0
            Quote: EdwardTich68
            This is your only shot of a single car is just ridiculous.

            Then the line of that UAZ was developed. Small, but still there were several models and everything was in metal. Google help. This is the first.
            And here is the second: the first satellite also once had a single image, and the satellite itself was one. What became funny? Well, laugh.

            Quote: EdwardTich68
            When people have money and there’s nothing to buy, it is called hidden inflation.

            And now grace: there is nothing to buy, but there is no money for what is. But inflation is also hidden: 6% write, and + 15% of those who remain in their mind.


            Quote: EdwardTich68
            The coupon system speaks for itself, in the domestic sphere
            it was a disaster, it was precisely because of the disaster in the domestic sphere that the USSR disappeared.

            So when was the coupon system? And who, and for what purpose, organized this coupon system? Something before Humpback (and at first under Humpback) there was no coupon system.

            Quote: EdwardTich68
            Do not wake the beast in me, please

            Werewolf? Judging by the cons - yes.
          4. Dimon-chik-79
            Dimon-chik-79 11 December 2013 09: 54 New
            0
            Zaminusali for the truth! Or that the memory refused, they forgot how they stood in lines literally for everything. They lived like the Holodomor, because almost all of the industry was oriented towards the military industry. The people were provided on a residual basis.
            1. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 11 December 2013 10: 30 New
              +1
              Quote: Dimon-chik-79
              Lived like a famine

              well, frankly lying so why, of course there were queues, for example it was difficult to buy milk after 12, because they would take it apart as soon as they brought it, and even before 12 it would not stand, sour, the milk was real.
              I don’t know about you, but I didn’t go hungry and I don’t fluff from hunger
            2. The comment was deleted.
      2. smersh70
        smersh70 9 December 2013 17: 13 New
        +1
        Quote: anip
        not worse than the current "Mercedes Gelendvagen".


        ..it looks more like a Hyundai Galloper..or Mitsubishi Pajero! smile even though it began to develop. more precisely, it did the first sprouts ... but it was too late ..... this had to be done in the late 70s or early 80s .... fewer tanks had to be riveted and sold to the Arabs. more precisely, to give .. ......
      3. Normal
        Normal 9 December 2013 23: 43 New
        +1
        Quote: EdwardTich68
        . The only question is why the economy did not begin to be put on a civilian footing, at least in 1985.

        Why didn’t they start? At the end of the 80s, working at a factory manufacturing Mig-29, he participated in the development and production (conversion program) of a bulk goods packaging machine, the production license of which was acquired in Germany in 1936.
        Quote: anip
        Google at least UAZ-3172. Be surprised. Nothing worse than the current "Mercedes Gelendvagen".

        UAZ is certainly cool! Where there is Gelen (seriously, where UAZ will take place, Gelen has nothing to do) But to compare it is necessary not to GO, but to steer, and preferably not only along the track from the timber trucks, but simply along the highway laughing .
        Especially since
        serial production of the UAZ-3172 was never launched. Only a few were produced (according to some reports 9 [1])

        A Mercedes-Benz G-Class is available (and successfully sold, especially with us) from 1979 to the present.
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion 9 December 2013 20: 53 New
      0
      The USSR never spent too much on the defense industry, this is bullshit. Maximum 15%, if you do not know, then do not write.
    3. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 10 December 2013 16: 53 New
      0
      Quote: EdwardTich68
      The result is deplorable

      The result is paid for: "the first president of the USSR" is the best German of the year, has its own feeding trough - the Gorbachev Foundation. The second got the opportunity to "lead" without leaving an alcoholic coma. And their accomplices - who is Norilsk nickel, who is grown, who is some other piece of national property ...
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 16: 04 New
    +7
    Quote: EdwardTich68
    Most of the funds went to the defense industry.

    but at the same time, the entire children's assortment was subsidized and spilled at a price below cost, utilities even do not make sense, education, children's leisure, food ...
    1. EdwardTich68
      EdwardTich68 9 December 2013 18: 09 New
      0
      We see the result of that economic system that even smart people could not quickly rebuild, and no one expected anything else from Misha.
  • tomich
    tomich 9 December 2013 16: 23 New
    -2
    if yes, if only ... then it’s necessary to plant those who in those years held a rally for democracy, sneakers and other crap
    1. ekzorsist
      ekzorsist 9 December 2013 21: 02 New
      -1
      It was better not to plant - but to shoot!
      More reliable. And then this shit will not come up anywhere else.
  • Samsebenaum
    Samsebenaum 9 December 2013 16: 33 New
    +8
    ... The collapse of the USSR-a crime without statute of limitations ...
    No doubt about it. Here are just some criminals somehow, humanly treated with chur ...
    Someone even got medals on their chests, and some were surrounded by relatives with care.
    So look for justice after that ...
    1. anip
      anip 9 December 2013 16: 45 New
      +6
      Quote: Samsebenum
      ... The collapse of the USSR-a crime without statute of limitations ...
      No doubt about it. Here are just some criminals somehow, humanly treated with chur ...
      Someone even got medals on their chests, and some were surrounded by relatives with care.
      So look for justice after that ...

      What justice is it now? If Taburetkin is still not doing anything.
  • Bakht
    Bakht 9 December 2013 16: 42 New
    +1
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    detailed response.
    well, let's say you nationalized production, then what? !!!!!
    how are you going to manage the gold reserve further, I'm sorry, but this relationship is very distant to mining.

    Apparently, you are well versed in the topic. Then make one point clear. What is gold for? And where should the country's gold reserves be kept. To me, ignorant, it always seemed that the country's gold reserves are stored in the country. And nowhere else can it be stored simply anywhere else. By definition, it cannot.

    If I'm wrong - then tell me.
  • me
    me 9 December 2013 16: 43 New
    -12 qualifying.
    Again, some kind of commies the collapse of the USSR does not give rest. Egegei man! The 21st century is in the yard, we have Russia and we must make it strong, and not smear the snot. And in general, all that is not being done is for the best, consider that we just dropped the ballast.
    1. anip
      anip 9 December 2013 16: 53 New
      +6
      On the avatar, it seems your idol and (or) hero?
      Yes, such a ballast as you and your idol should have been reset for a long time.
      1. me
        me 10 December 2013 16: 24 New
        0
        So go and throw it away so brave))
    2. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 9 December 2013 17: 22 New
      +3
      Quote: i
      And in general, everything that’s not being done is for the best, consider that we just dropped the ballast

      Your phrase is perfect for the continuation of the song: "It's okay, beautiful marquise!"
      For you, the ballast is: Russian-speaking non-citizens in the separated republics, the dead - agriculture, industry, space, science, education in ErEfii.

      Quote: i
      Egegei man! 21st century in the yard

      Excite yourself? What smoked?
      1. me
        me 10 December 2013 17: 01 New
        -1
        Yes, I wanted to spit on these citizens, they made their choice a long time ago and it seems they do not really regret it. If they like to be "blacks", the Balts have their problems, nothing prevents them from returning to the Russian Federation, Putin is already tired of inviting, but they are not coming. The killed farm? This is not a consequence of the disintegration, but the absence of managers, because God himself ordered our country to be agricultural. power, the rest of the points are the same.
        P.S. No, I don’t smoke, but I’ll advise you, you can even eat fun mushrooms, maybe a more creative nickname will come up.
  • demotivator
    demotivator 9 December 2013 17: 06 New
    +4
    It turns out that there is an opinion that the USSR is legally alive. Indeed, in order for him to be legally dead, it was necessary to carry out the procedures established by the law “On the procedure for resolving issues related to the exit of the Union Republic from the USSR” (3.04.1990/6/15). The decision on the withdrawal of a Union republic from the USSR shall be considered adopted “by means of a referendum if at least two-thirds of USSR citizens who permanently reside in the republic by the time the question of its withdrawal from the USSR is raised” voted for it (Article XNUMX). Citizens of the USSR living in a separating republic were guaranteed "the right to choose citizenship, place of residence and work, and the leaving republic would compensate for all the costs associated with relocating citizens from the borders of the republic" (Article XNUMX).
    As is known, no referendum on secession from the USSR was held in any of the Union republics. Although, in this regard, it was guaranteed by the Constitution of the USSR. And for the RSFSR, USSR, BSSR - also the UN Charter.
    Referendums are not a substitute for the unilateral declarations of independence of the RSFSR (12.06.1990), Moldova (23.06.1990), Ukraine (16.07.1990), Uzbekistan (20.07.1990), Belarus (27.07.1990), Turkmenistan (22.08.1990), Armenia (23.08.1990), Tajikistan (24.08.1990), Kazakhstan (25.10.1990) ), Georgia (14.11.1990), Kyrgyzstan (15.12.1990). And even more so - the decision of the incomprehensible “State Council” on cutting off from the USSR and “recognition of independence” of the Lithuanian, Latvian and Estonian Union Republics ”(6.09.1991).
    According to the results of the referendum alone, it was possible to deprive 280 million people of USSR citizenship, taking into account Art. 15 Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Art. 33 of the Constitution of the USSR, Art. 20 of the Law "On Citizenship of the USSR" (23.05.1990), Art. 5 Declaration of Human Rights and Freedoms (5.06.1991), etc.
    The signing in the Bialowieza Forest of the 3-sided Agreement on the Establishment of the CIS (8.12.1991), in which it was announced that the USSR “ceases to exist” did not comply with the legislation in force at that time and contradicted the will of the people expressed in the All-Union referendum of 17 on March 1991, when 76,4% of Soviet citizens voted to preserve the USSR. In addition, the existence of an inter-republican CIS does not abolish the USSR.
    Legally, the membership of the Soviet Union in the United Nations was not terminated. The Bialowieza Agreement was not properly ratified and was not submitted to the UN Secretariat, as it should.
    The inviolability and integrity of the state territory of the USSR was fixed and still has not been canceled in the Final Act of the meeting on security and cooperation in Europe (1.09.1975/XNUMX/XNUMX)
  • klim44
    klim44 9 December 2013 17: 07 New
    -3
    What is the crime?
    Here from the 1977 Constitution of the CCSS
    Chapter 8. The USSR - Union State
    Article 70. The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics -
    a single union multinational state formed on
    basis of the principle of socialist federalism, as a result
    free self-determination of nations and voluntary association
    equal Soviet Socialist Republics.
    Article 72. The right is reserved for each Union Republic
    free exit from the USSR.
    In fact, in the Bialowieza Forest, the three republics agreed to withdraw from the USSR. Even earlier, three Baltic republics and Georgia left the Union. Everything is based on the constitution.
    And now for the myths:
    - So, the liberal myth No. 1 - the USSR was a “prison of peoples”, there was no friendship between them.
    Friendship was certainly bosom, especially those who served in the SA remember how pleasant it was to serve, for example, a Slav in the Caucasian army team.
    -Liberal myth No. 2 - the USSR was a colossus with feet of clay, whose leadership allowed itself to be drawn into the arms race, which led to the collapse in 1991
    Of course, the USSR was not to blame for the arms race, only the largest army on the planet was, 60000 tanks riveted, a bunch of all kinds of weapons (which are still traded by all the CIS), and consumer goods were not released. Likely you who lived then remember the general deficit.
    - Liberal myth No. 3 - the USSR collapsed on its own, in Belovezhskaya Pushcha they only ascertained his political death.
    Unfortunately, the Soviet Union collapsed on its own, strong empires do not fall apart, and in a country in which there is no toothpaste on sale there is nothing to hope for. By the way, Yeltsin had the results of the referendum on June 12, 1989, I can’t say anything about Shushkevich, I just don’t remember.
    =
    - Liberal myth No. 4 - the Soviet people did not protest against the destruction of the USSR in Belovezhskaya Pushcha. PEOPLES OF THE FORMER USSR were not protesting. And the rally indicated by the author of the article is more like waving fists after a fight
    - Liberal myth No. 5 - Russia is better off living separately from the former fraternal republics and everyone is better off in the Commonwealth of Independent States than in one "communal apartment" of the USSR
    It’s hard to say anything about this, I think that for us the inhabitants of the Russian Federation nothing has changed, as our authorities buy the love of the ruling elites in the CIS, they will probably pay further for friendship. Only hal that gn out of his personal pocket, but from the budget of the Russian Federation.
    - Most of the USSR? I think in Russia yes - the majority, but in other countries - who knows the answer?
    1. 222222
      222222 9 December 2013 19: 01 New
      +2
      klim44 RU Today, 17:07
      In fact, in Belovezhskaya Pushcha, three republics agreed to secede from the USSR. Even earlier, three Baltic republics and Georgia left the Union .. Everything is obtained on the basis of the constitution .. "
      in order to give legal status to the issue of the republics' exit on April 3, 1990, the USSR Armed Forces adopted the law ... Signing of the Bialowieza Agreement. December 8, 1991
      PROCEDURE FOR RESOLVING ISSUES RELATED TO THE EXIT OF THE UNION REPUBLIC FROM THE USSR

      LAW THE SUPREME COUNCIL OF THE USSR April 3, 1990 N 1409-I

      http://ru.wikisource.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BD_%D0%A1%D0%A1%D0%A1%
      D0%A0_%D0%BE%D1%82_3.04.1990_%E2%84%96_1409-I
      ..read ..
      Article 2. The decision on the withdrawal of a Union republic from the USSR shall be made by free expression of the will of the peoples of the Union Republic by referendum (popular vote). The decision to hold a referendum is made by the Supreme Council of the Union Republic on its own initiative or at the request of one tenth of the USSR citizens permanently residing in the republic and having the right to vote in accordance with the legislation of the USSR
      Article 6. A decision on the withdrawal of a Union republic from the USSR shall be deemed adopted by means of a referendum if at least two-thirds of USSR citizens who permanently reside in the republic at the time of raising the question of its withdrawal from the USSR and have the right to vote in accordance with the legislation of the USSR are voting for it.
      Article 7. The Supreme Council of the Union Republic submits to the Supreme Soviet of the USSR the results of the referendum. ..If it is established that the referendum is held in accordance with the law, the Supreme Soviet of the USSR submits the issue to the Congress of People's Deputies of the USSR ...
      Article 20 From the moment such a decision was adopted by the Congress of People's Deputies of the USSR, the exit of the Union Republic from the USSR is considered to have taken place, and People's Deputies of the USSR from the departed republic lose their authority.

      The Congress of People's Deputies of the USSR makes the corresponding amendments to the Constitution of the USSR

      Who authorized the trinity to sign? People, Congress of Deputies ... NOBODY ..
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 9 December 2013 17: 07 New
    0
    Quote: Bakht
    You are well versed in the topic

    exactly as much as they teach economics at a university
    Quote: Bakht
    And nowhere else can it be stored simply anywhere else. By definition, it cannot

    Well, actually not always like that In the 1930s, many countries, fearing the invasion of the Germans, moved their gold reserves to the USA for storage, where they are still stored to this day.

    Two-thirds of the gold and foreign exchange reserves of the Russian Federation are located in Moscow at the Central Bank of Russia on Pravda Street
  • fumanchu
    fumanchu 9 December 2013 17: 30 New
    +1
    What happened is gone. It's a pity of course, and anger takes. But neither of which will not return.

    Now, if in 20 years to build something similar on the basis of the Eurasian Union and without any organized crime groups at the top, then even in old age, I returned to my homeland. All the same, with Soviet education in a foreign land, this one feels like a black sheep.

    Now, wherever you look, everywhere the same eggs but in profile. But many would return back if there was at least some hope.
  • 11111mail.ru
    11111mail.ru 9 December 2013 17: 35 New
    +5
    Only those who are frostbitten like "yaneyaikuchkanemoya", who left their stinking thoughts in the previous commentary, can not experience the collapse of our Motherland with their hearts.
    Unfortunately, Vladimir Kvachkov is not mentioned above, a real fighter for our and YOUR future, baldly accused of attempting a redhead. Freedom to the national hero!
    1. EdwardTich68
      EdwardTich68 9 December 2013 18: 01 New
      -3
      Well, what kind of a hero is this, do they commit such assassination attempts? From AKSU to armored
      a car, for me it’s necessary to heal him. I made everyone laugh, even Chubais
      He was not afraid but indignant at the stupidity of the assassins and the underestimation of his person. laughing
      1. 11111mail.ru
        11111mail.ru 9 December 2013 20: 08 New
        0
        Quote: EdwardTich68
        Do they commit such assassination? From AKSU to armored
        a car, for me it’s necessary to heal him. I made everyone laugh, even Chubais
        He was not afraid but indignant at the stupidity of the assassins and the underestimation of his person.

        Do you have a script? Contact the Chubais secret police, let them calculate the probability. Have preferences, 30 shekels will throw on poverty.
        I personally think that AB Chubais is not a person like you, but just a Thief, even on a state scale.
        The mythical attempt on this rat was so obvious that V.V. Kvachkov was initially acquitted by a jury on June 5, 2008.
        But if V.V. Kvachkov was the Chubais and other enemy gang APPOINTED guilty, then here you are: "an attempt at a coup d'etat" and a new term for a fighter for our freedom.
        1. EdwardTich68
          EdwardTich68 9 December 2013 20: 57 New
          +1
          I personally think that AB Chubais is not a person like you, but just a THIEF
          You can consider Kvachkov a hero, but as a reasonable person I consider him
          the hirer who completed the Chubais order for good money.