Military Review

What is behind the transfer of part of the Amur Islands to China

62
Having been in Khabarovsk, it is impossible not to discuss the issue that worries many Russian citizens, and Khabarovsk especially worries. Chinese territory is visible from the beautiful promenade of this city with the naked eye. Nearby flows the majestic Cupid. There are several islands in the middle of the river. In 2008, Russia transferred the island of Tarabarova and part of the Big Ussuriisky Island to China.


Why did this happen? The liberal public and a part of the most emotional patriots made and submit the incident as a “one-sided” and “unreasonable” concession on the part of our country towards China.

The best way to understand the situation is to look at the facts.

About this article Khabarovsk Artem Yakovlevich Krivosheev, who tried to make out the whole situation, as they say, "by the bones"




Why did Russia agree to transfer the island of Tarabarova and part of the Big Ussuri Island to China? Indeed, it is difficult to agree that the concession 337 square. km Russian territory is the success of our diplomacy. However, gentlemen journalists shouting about “selling the interests of Russia,” however, as always, act in short-term interests and greatly simplify the problem. Let's try to figure out what made the Russian President do that. BUT история The issue originates in 1858 year ...

Until 1858, the modern Amur Region, the Jewish Autonomous Region, the Southern part of the Khabarovsk Territory and the Primorsky Territory under the Nerchinsky Treaty of Russia and China 1689 of the year was, as it were, a “neutral territory”. Then it suited both states. However, with the beginning of the confrontation between Russia and England (after the Napoleonic wars), the situation with the significance of the modern territory of the Amur region begins to change. The danger of the occupation of these territories by the British and French increased, and then, having a kind of wedge penetrating the continent, the powers of the sea could successfully launch a struggle against both mainland China and continental Russia.

The consequences of such a development of events were well represented by the Governor-General of Eastern Siberia, N. N. Muravyov: “There was not an unfounded assumption that the British would occupy the mouth of the Amur,” N.N. reported on February 25, 1849. Muravyov to Emperor Nicholas I. - What then will the forces and resources of the government be required so that Eastern Siberia does not become English when an English fortress becomes at the mouth of the Amur and the English ships go along the Amur to Nerchinsk and even to Chita? ... If instead of an English fortress a Russian fortress had become at the mouth of the Amur, as well as at the port of Peter and Paul in Kamchatka, and between them flotilla“And for the sake of caution, so that in these fortresses and the flotilla the garrisons, crew and superiors would be delivered from inside Russia, then these small means would forever ensure the possession of Siberia and all its inexhaustible wealth for Russia forever.”

The Crimean War and the ongoing opium wars in China clearly demonstrated that if the Russians do not occupy the Amur region, the British will do it, or, in extreme cases, the French going to the wake of their policies. Being a talented politician and having authority from the emperor, Governor-General N. N. Muravyov initiated the conclusion of a new border treaty with China. According to the Aigun Treaty, the entire left bank of the Amur River to the mouth of the river departed from 16 in May of 1858 of Russia. A direct addition to the agreement was the Beijing Treaty concluded between Russia and China 2 (14) November 1860 of the year in the framework of a series of treaties between China and European countries in Beijing burned and plundered by the British and French. The border between the two countries was established along the Amur, Ussuri and Sungari through the lake. Khanka, to r. Tumyndzyan. Russia, thus, finally secured the Ussuri region. The western border between the two countries was also secured. The contract provided for the subsequent determination of the boundary on the ground, both on the east and on its western sections.

What is behind the transfer of part of the Amur Islands to China


According to the agreement, the eastern border between Russia and China was established, starting from the confluence of the Shilka and Argun rivers, downstream. Cupid to the place of its confluence with r. Ussuri. The contract bypassed the question of the islands. However, within the framework of the demarcation works by the Russian side, a map of 25 versts in inches was drawn up and appended to the contract, attached to the text of the Beijing Treaty. An indication of the presence of such a card is in the 1 article of the text of the contract, which reads: “Above this, in fulfillment of the ninth article of the Tianjin Treaty, the mapped map is affirmed, on which boundary line, for greater clarity, is indicated by a red line and its direction is shown in letters of the Russian alphabet: A, B, C, D, D, E, F, 3, I, I, K, L, M, N, O, P, P, C, T, U. This map is signed by the representatives of both states and sealed with their seals ". It was on this map that Count N. P. Ignatiev drew a red pencil along the Chinese line along the Amur and Ussuri rivers, and in the Khabarovsk area along the Kazakevichev canal. However, at the conclusion of the Beijing Treaty, the Chinese representative, Prince Gong, refused to sign this card, and in 1861 - 1886. a description of the boundary line was drawn up only in its section from the mouth of the river. Ussuri to the mouth of the river. Foggy, which seriously confused the demarcation of the state border along the Amur. Thus, the Beijing Treaty provided for a gradual work on the demarcation of the border. This work was carried out in Primorye, Central Asia, on Argun, but on the Amur until the beginning of the 1990-s there was no work on the demarcation of the state border, only a general delimitation line was fixed.

Thus, although it is surprising, Russia and China did not define a clear border on Amur for various reasons for more than 100 years - from 1860 to 1990 a year.

All this has generated a lot of controversy and difficulties. The Beijing Treaty did not say anything about the ownership of the islands, the Chinese representative, according to the terms of the contract, did not sign the card. However, the emperor of China approved the decree along with the map. In addition, the contract stated that the border runs downstream. Cupid to the place of its confluence with r. Ussuri. The question was what to consider as the confluence of the Ussuri River in the Amur. Even among Russian scientists there was no unity about what is considered the mouth of the river. Ussuri: points located in the area of ​​art. Kazakevichy or in the Khabarovsk region.

However, understanding the strategic importance of these islands for the then military post of Khabarovka, Russia immediately established control over the islands of Great Ussuriisky and Tarabarov. To avoid border conflicts, all activity on the islands was limited to mowing. To fix the line of the state border on the ground, the Russian-Chinese demarcation commission in 1861 on the Chinese coast opposite the village of Kazakevicheva established a wooden pole with the letter “E”, which had the coordinates 48º16'20 ″ n. and 152º37 'E In 1886, the wooden pole was replaced with a stone one installed in the same place. The archipelago was designated as the territory of Russia on the “Map of China and the Amur River banks” (1859) and the Map of Manchuria (1897) published in Russia. Despite this, the Chinese side has repeatedly made claims on the archipelago, accusing the other side of deception and unauthorized transfer of the demarcation pillar.

However, until the beginning of the First World War, the demarcation of the state border along the Amur was not carried out. Narimer, according to the instructions of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia, to the coastal population in 1911, it was proposed before the end of the disengagement "to use those islands that they recognize as belonging to them, not paying attention to the protests of the Chinese." In addition, the definition of the border on the main fairway (the maximum depth of the channel) on the Amur and Ussuri was very difficult. The point is in the features of their flow. These rivers carry a lot of silt, which constantly settles on the bottom - and, of course, exactly where the main stream flows, that is, along the fairway. As a result, the fairway of the rivers is constantly shifting. There are a lot of islands on the rivers. As a rule, the sludge settles on one side of the island, and on the other side at the same time the bottom sediments are eroded over. Therefore, the fairway now and then moves from one side of the island to the other. Thus, the island, which was recently considered to belong to one of the parties, according to the rule of the fairway, is owned by the other. Based on this principle, the ability to determine the ownership of the islands of the Great Ussuriysky and Tarabarov is generally not possible. Since there was no clear understanding of what should be considered the main fairway. This feature of the Amur and Ussuri rivers was used by the Chinese side in conducting “irrigation wars” in the region of the Bolshoi Ussuriysk and Tarabarov with a serious aggravation of relations with the USSR under Khrushchev, and later under Brezhnev. The meaning was simple: the Chinese were drowning sand barges in Kazakevicheva, intensifying its silting, which subsequently caused the departure of the fairway to the north and the automatic connection of the disputed islands to Chinese territory. Accordingly, we carried out dredging. It came to curiosities: at night the Chinese fell asleep to the canal, and during the day we deepened it.

It was with such a baggage of contradictions that the state border existed all the years of the First World War, the revolution and the civil war in Russia. In the 1929 year, taking advantage of the conflict on the CER as a pretext, our troops occupied Bolshoi Ussuriysky Island. Being in the immediate vicinity of Khabarovsk and previously not controlled by our troops, the island could be used to bombard the city, where industry began to be built. In 1931, Manchuria was occupied by the Japanese. In the light of these events, a military presence on the islands was absolutely necessary. In addition, the USSR took control of almost all the islands on the Amur and the Ussuri. Actually, the border remained in such a position until the creation of the People's Republic of China in 1949. The young state was obliged to the USSR by much, besides the general ideology, a competent policy in relation to China of the Stalinist USSR did not give a reason to flare up the border problem. The PRC and the USSR acted as a united front against the common enemy — the Anglo-Saxon powers. 14 February 1950. in Moscow, the Soviet-Chinese Treaty of Friendship, Union and Mutual Assistance was signed for 30 years, which, according to I.V. Stalin "to serve the cause of ensuring peace in the Far East against all and all aggressors and arsonists of war." In accordance with the treaty of friendship of the union, mutual assistance (1950), the Soviet-Chinese border, prior to the start of the audit of bilateral relations, was the border of good neighborliness, where active contacts were maintained between the people of the border areas, lively trade was conducted, cultural exchange was established. Cooperation agreements were concluded in a number of frontier areas, including the “Agreement on the order of navigation along the border rivers Amur, Ussuri, Argun, Sungach, and oz. Khanka and on the establishment of navigable conditions on these waterways ”(1951), on forestry, on joint fight against forest fires in border areas, etc. Under these agreements, the actual guarded border line has not been questioned [. Confirms the absence of claims from the Chinese comrades, the transfer to China of topographic maps with the designation of the entire border line. On the Chinese side, there were no comments on the border line.

The problems began with the death of Stalin and the coming to power of Khrushchev. By this example, one can clearly see the consequences of the misunderstanding of the canons of geopolitics by the country's leader. For several years, this “search designer” managed to surrender a number of positions to the Anglo-Saxon powers and severely spoil relations with the allied China. However, up to 1960, China’s territorial claims were not made. It is this year that the long-standing and unresolved territorial issue begins to rise, as a reflection of the general sharp deterioration in relations between the countries. In whose interests? In the interests of the United States, of course. In 1960, the USSR unexpectedly recalls Soviet specialists from China and almost simultaneously the first episode occurred at the border, which showed the existence of disagreements between the USSR and China on the issue of the border line and the ownership of certain sections. We are talking about the 1960 incident, when Chinese cattlemen grazed livestock in the territory under Soviet jurisdiction (in the area of ​​the Buz-Aygyr Pass in Kyrgyzstan). When the Soviet border guards arrived, the shepherds said they were in the territory of the People’s Republic of China. Later it turned out that they acted according to the directive of the authorities of their province. On this occasion, the Ministries of Foreign Affairs of China and the USSR sent each other several notes and made oral statements in which, for the first time since the founding of the PRC, a different understanding of the border line with the Soviet Union was revealed at the official, diplomatic level.

From the autumn of 1960, the systematic exits of Chinese citizens to the islands on the border rivers of the Far East, which are under our control, began. They declared to the Soviet border guards that they were on Chinese territory. The reaction of Soviet border guards to incidents has changed. If earlier they simply ignored the Chinese peasant industries in a number of territories under Soviet jurisdiction, then, starting from 1960, we tried to stop them.

In this situation, the Presidium of the CPSU Central Committee decided to create an interdepartmental commission of specialists from the Foreign Ministry, the KGB and the Ministry of Defense, whose task was to select and study contractual acts on the border with the PRC. The commission identified 13 sites where there were discrepancies on the maps of the parties and 12 where no islands were distributed. The boundary line itself did not have a clear indication on the ground, since 141 was preserved from 40 in the original form; 77 was in a destroyed state, 24 was absent altogether. It was also noted that the description of the boundary in contractual acts is often of a general nature, and many contractual maps are drawn up on a small scale at a primitive level. In general, at the conclusion of the commission, it was noted that the entire border line with the PRC, except for the section on the Pamirs south of the Uz-Bel pass, is defined by treaties. In the case of border negotiations, the commission proposed to draw the border not along the banks of the rivers, but along the middle line of the main fairway on navigable rivers and along the middle of the river on non-navigable rivers, and not as it was marked by a red line on the map attached to the Beijing Treaty, according to which the border went along the Chinese coast. That is, the border was determined very roughly, it needed a new demarcation. The uncertainty of the border on the ground gave an excellent reason to create conflict situations.

And China has actively used the border problem as a cause for conflict. Violations statistics showed that from 1960 to 1964 the number grew rapidly, and in the second half of 60, incidents became more acute. In 1960, the number of violations was about 100, in 1962 already around 5 thousand. In 1963, more than 100 thousand Chinese civilian and military took part in the illegal crossing of the Soviet-Chinese border. Thus, Khrushchev’s quarrel with China marked the beginning of a very difficult and painful process of demarcating the entire state border. Under Khrushchev, in February 1964, consultations began with the PRC on cross-border issues. And the Chinese made obviously unrealistic demands. So China demanded to recognize the Treaty of Beijing and Aigun as "unequal". Here it is necessary to understand that the task of China at that time was not to resolve the territorial disputes, but to aggravate them and provoke a conflict, demonstrating to the United States its determination to resist the USSR.

In April, 1964, the parties exchanged topographic maps indicating their understanding of the boundary line and created a working group, after which they began to look directly at the boundary line. As a result of studying the Chinese maps and comparing them with the Soviet ones, it was found that there are discrepancies in the plotting of the border line on these 22 sites, of which 17 are located on the western part of the Soviet-Chinese border (now the Central Asian republics of the former USSR) and 5 sites - on eastern border. These plots roughly coincided with the plots that the 1960 Interdepartmental Commission indicated in their note. On the Chinese maps, 3 plots were also indicated which did not appear in the commission’s materials, including a rather large plot in the area of ​​the Bedel Pass (Kyrgyzstan) and islands in Khabarovsk.

Following the consideration of maps in Moscow, it was concluded that negotiations could be held not on individual sections, as previously assumed, but on the entire border, as the Chinese delegation insisted. Such an approach became possible, since for the most part of the extension of the boundary line there were no vital differences. According to the longest line that required clarification - the river border in the Far East, the parties had the same understanding that the border should have passed along the main channel. In this regard, the delegation was given additional instructions - to confirm the border line in areas where the parties understand it in the same way.

So, let us remember - Khrushchev initiated the border problem, who doused Stalin, who had been an indisputable authority for Mao Dzedun, and carried out a number of unfriendly actions against China. The result of Khrushchev's short-sighted policy was the fighting on Damanski Island, as well as in Kazakhstan and, most importantly, the reversal of China from friendship and cooperation with the USSR to the United States. That in many respects, determined our geopolitical defeat at the beginning of the 1990s. The border issue was the result of this policy.

Further events developed as follows. During Gorbachev’s time when negotiations were held in 1987 - 1991, which culminated in the signing of the Agreement on the Soviet-Chinese border 1991, it was established that the border on the Amur should pass along the main fairway of the river. According to this agreement, many islands that were previously controlled by the USSR, in Among them, Damansky Island turned out to be Chinese territory.

Now the question. Does anyone remember the wrathful articles of the liberals that Gorbachev was trading in his homeland and gave several dozens of "originally Russian islands" to China at once? Nevertheless, here Mikhail Sergeyevich, with his passion for unilateral concessions, nevertheless helped to resolve the long-term border problem, largely initiated by the policies of Khrushchev.

However, this agreement bypassed the solution of the border problem near the islands in the Khabarovsk region. And the reason you can see on the map below. The southernmost channel between China and the Tarabarov and Bolshoy Ussuriysky islands is the Kazakevich channel. If we consider it the confluence of the Ussuri and Amur, then all the islands are Russian territory. And if we consider the location of the Ussuri and Amur to be a place to the north of the Big Ussuri Island, then the islands are completely Chinese territory. And this option is unacceptable for Russia, since then the border will be held right in the immediate vicinity of Khabarovsk (the left bank will be the Chinese, and on the right there will be Khabarovsk



In fact, this was the last unresolved territorial dispute with China (together with the Abagaytuy island on Argun) at the time President Putin took office. Now you need to understand the geopolitical context in which Putin acted in the early 2000-s. From 2003 to 2004, Vladimir Putin initiates a vivid lesson for those who want to give Russian bowels under the control of US monopolies and, by order of Americans, to buy up the State Duma (the YUKOS case and Khodorkovsky’s landing), abolishes the law of the PSA (Section Agreement products), will introduce the mineral extraction tax (“Mineral Tax”) that fills the current state budget. Following Putin takes the next step. In October, Russian-Chinese negotiations open in Beijing, in which, together with a number of unpublished agreements, additional agreements are signed that settle all the existing territorial disputes between Russia and China.

Since in the case of the Khabarovsk Islands it was impossible to apply the principle of delimitation along the fairway, the parties agreed to divide the Big Ussuriisky Island into southern China and Northern (most developed) Russian parts. In addition, in exchange for the northern part of the Bolshoy Ussuriysk, we lost half of the island of Abagaytuy to Argun. A new principle was applied - territories were divided according to landmarks.

Through the cries of the liberals “on trade in the motherland,” the fact was missed that for the first time in the history of Russia and China, all claims and controversial points were removed from all over the 4300 km of the Russian-Chinese border. Of course, the transfer of part of the islands cannot be definitely called a success, and I’m far from thinking of justifying our President, but non-persistent journalists for some reason do not say that the situation with the state border at the beginning of 2000 went to Putin from Khrushchev and Gorbachev. Where the first quarreled with our main geopolitical ally, as a result of which the territorial issue was initiated, and the second successfully solved this problem, finally having ditched the country that he was in charge of. As a result, the Russian Federation in terms of strength and influence in the world, and most importantly, the presence of trumps at the negotiations in 2004, was a far from Stalinist USSR of the model 1952 of the year. In 1952, a border treaty could be concluded on terms that were favorable to us, since the space for diplomatic bargaining was incomparably wider.

Was it possible to resolve the territorial issue in the conditions of our time in some other way? This is a big question. The transfer of part of the island near Khabarovsk was the result of almost 150 years of history of our victories and defeats, strengthening and weakening Russia, and was not a “one-time concession from Russia”. So why are liberal journalists criticizing Putin like this and overly emotional patriots? Let's look at the facts. In October 2004, border agreements are signed in Beijing, the border issue is finally settled. Immediately thereafter, 31 of December 2004 of the year issued an order of the Government of the Russian Federation No. 1737-p on the design and construction of the Eastern Siberia-Pacific Ocean oil pipeline (ESPO) with branches to China. (Legal border clearance was completed only in July 2008, when Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi signed an additional protocol describing the line of the Russian-Chinese border in its eastern part.

The leadership of Russia and China has taken a course on cooperation and good neighborly relations with each other, eliminating the last territorial disputes that could seriously spoil relations between the two countries and lead to the Russian-Chinese war, which the US needs so much. This is not like the liberal bloggers and journalists, or rather their overseas sponsors.

They need confrontation, and better war between the two most powerful continental countries.

And the more reasons for conflicts there are, the better.

In short, the whole story about the ownership of the islands on the Amur.
Author:
Originator:
http://pandoraopen.ru/2013-10-08/chto-stoit-za-peredachej-chasti-amurskix-ostrovov-kitayu/
62 comments
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  1. kaktus
    kaktus 7 December 2013 06: 58
    +8
    The leadership of Russia and China has taken a course on cooperation and good neighborly relations with each other, eliminating the last territorial disputes that could seriously spoil relations between the two countries and lead to the Russian-Chinese war, which the US needs so much. This is not like the liberal bloggers and journalists, or rather their overseas sponsors.
    Well, if so! And if this is the last territorial dispute, the Russian Federation borders on 16 states, everyone needs something from us ... and not only to the neighbors angry
    1. mirag2
      mirag2 7 December 2013 07: 19
      +1
      Hooray, hooray! My ban has expired! I won’t even drive in and for what?
      there were 2 warnings, a ban for 4?
      Yes, not everything is as simple as it seems, he took and gave the land.
      And I remember in the 90s how many people shouted, "give the islands back to the Japanese! They will give us money, they will build a TV factory to assemble ...."
      Heh heh heh ...
      And the situevina in Ukraine may end like this, they will live even worse, the country's credit rating has fallen, the state will take the money, there is nothing to give (because only food will go from Ukraine to the EU, from the west) - "where can we get the money? Let's give the Lviv region to Poland- They will pay our debts! That's great! And most importantly, people are "for".
      This is where unbridled greed and arrogance leads. Billions Yanukovych constantly wants, like our officials, millions "for corporate events."
      And besides his belly, there are millions of other stomachs in the country, and if the country is in the pope, then filling the budget, constantly pinching a penny from the people for officials is the easiest way, but that they work to fill those other millions of stomachs, and not their own they don’t enter.
      1. Chertkov Oleg
        7 December 2013 17: 45
        +4
        I served in the Kuril Islands 92-94. In those years, the Japanese paid in cash to move the Kuril residents to the mainland. They called "involuntary resettlement", some moved. And what beauty is there (Kunashir Island), two volcanoes, hot and cold springs, dwarf bamboo, red tree. It is necessary to do resorts there, but the pagranzone, in any way. Carrots with a hat, not the Kuriles
    2. N.Sergh
      N.Sergh 7 December 2013 08: 32
      +3
      I will add just a little about the case of Gorbaty, and then the continuation of this issue of Yeltsin's participation.

      Article 5.
      The Contracting Parties agreed that the state border line between the USSR and the PRC described in Article 2 of this Agreement runs along navigable rivers in the middle of the main channel of the river, and on non-navigable rivers in the middle of the river or in the middle of its main branch.
      Those. The USSR agreed to use the main channel as a general principle in determining the boundaries of navigable rivers. The main fairways of the Amur and Ussuri, I note, respectively, pass north and east of the islands and are connected exactly in front of the center of Khabarovsk.

      Article 8.
      The Contracting Parties agreed that ships of various types, including military ones, can freely navigate from the Ussuri (Usulijiang) River to the Amur (Heilongjiang) River past the city of Khabarovsk and vice versa. Swimming rules will be developed by the competent authorities of the Parties.
      Those. this article gave the PRC the right of unhindered passage of foreign military vessels through its (de facto) territory, and also separately subscribed to the fact that the main channel runs north and east of the islands of Tarabar and Bol. Ussuri. Thus, the Chinese claims on both islands completely became (with the consent of the USSR!) Even more significant. This agreement was ratified by the Supreme Council on February 13, 1992 - after the collapse of the USSR.
      Further, during Yeltsin’s visit to Beijing in December of the same year, 1992, the following document was signed.

      JOINT DECLARATION ON THE BASIS OF RELATIONS BETWEEN THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION AND THE CHINESE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC. BEIJING. 18.12.1992/XNUMX/XNUMX.
      Article 12
      .
      Here, Russia once again recognizes that a) two islands are controversial and b) at the border, it is ready to be guided by generally accepted norms of international law. And the generally accepted norms of international law just establish in such cases the main channel as a dividing line.
      It can be seen from the documents cited that Gorbachev, a traitor to Russia, laid a mine under Russia's extremely weak position on the disputed territories. This once again indirectly proves my opinion that there is someone over our government, whose will they unquestioningly fulfill. They had never evoked warm feelings in me before, and now even more so. "Mr. President" swore to the Russians to respect the territorial integrity of the state. He wanted to spit on his own promises.

      Read more on:
      http://www.slavyanskaya-kultura.ru/news/politics/putin-otdal-ostrova-a-kitai-na-

      nih-stroit-megapolis.html
      1. Heccrbq.3
        Heccrbq.3 7 December 2013 09: 59
        -24 qualifying.
        The author's post with a noose around his neck!
    3. soldier's grandson
      soldier's grandson 7 December 2013 10: 31
      +4
      according to your reasoning, giving up to the Urals will be considered as cooperation and good-neighborly relations, with our "guarantors" this is not the last
      1. Chertkov Oleg
        7 December 2013 18: 02
        0
        Quote: demotivator
        The author writes: "... Let's try to figure out what made the Russian President do this. And the history of the issue dates back to 1858 ...".
        And why does he think that this story originates in 1858, and not much earlier? What, until this year, there were no other events in this territory? For those who need references to authorities, I refer to the British Encyclopedia 1771. Kotraaya indicates that once there was a huge country Tartaria, the provinces of which had different sizes. The largest province of this empire was called the Great Tartary and covered the lands of Western Siberia, Eastern Siberia and the Far East. In the southeast, it adjoined Chinese Tartary (Chinese Tartary) [request not to be confused with China (China)]. In the south of Great Tartary was the so-called Independent Tartary [Central Asia]. Tibetan Tartaria (Tibet) was located northwest of China and southwest of Chinese Tartaria. In the north of India was the Mongolian Tartaria (Mogul Empire) (modern Pakistan). The Uzbek Tartaria (Bukaria) was sandwiched between Independent Tartaria in the north; Chinese Tartaria in the northeast; Tibetan Tartary in the southeast; Mongolian Tartaria in the south and Persia in the southwest. In Europe, there were also several Tartaries: Muscovy or Moscow Tartaria (Muscovite Tartary), Kuban Tartaria (Kuban Tartars) and Little Tartaria (Little Tartary).
        Whoever has little British, let him look into the Spanish Encyclopedia. There is also preserved information about Great Tartaria. In the 6-volume Spanish encyclopedia "Diccionario Geografico Universal" 1795 of the year of publication, and, in a slightly modified form, in later editions of the Spanish encyclopedias. For example, back in the 1928 year, the Spanish encyclopedia "Enciclopedia Universal Ilustrada Europeo-Americana" contained a rather extensive article on Tartaria, which begins with the 790 page and occupies about 14 pages. This article has a lot of truthful information about the homeland of our ancestors - the Great Tartaria, but at the end “the spirit of the times” already affects, and inventions appear that we are familiar with now. So, China was given primordially Russian lands!

        I don’t believe in foreign cartoons, the author of the article (from the link at the bottom of the article) cites 15 documents in confirmation. In our opinion, bears still walk the streets like this, however.
        1. Su24
          Su24 8 December 2013 06: 42
          0
          To talk about all kinds of Tartaria, the same thing as about UFOs and Bigfoot. On maps of the 16th century, Russia is called ... Russia! Suddenly, huh? And Siberia is called ... You won’t believe Siberia!
    4. alone
      alone 7 December 2013 11: 25
      +5
      Quote: kaktus
      The leadership of Russia and China has embarked on cooperation and good-neighborly relations with each other, eliminating recent territorial disputes that could seriously spoil relations between the two countries and lead to the Russo-Chinese war, which the United States needs so much


      So it would be so, but there is one thing.

      recent territorial disputes,

      After the transfer of the islands at a joint meeting of the commissions of China and Russia, which are engaged in the demarcation of the border, the Chinese side put forward about one and a half hundred new
      claims to Russia about the territories. So the problem has not yet been resolved by transferring 337 sq. km
  2. demotivator
    demotivator 7 December 2013 07: 08
    +3
    The author writes: "... Let's try to figure out what made the Russian President do this. And the history of the issue dates back to 1858 ...".
    And why does he think that this story originates in 1858, and not much earlier? What, until this year, there were no other events in this territory? For those who need references to authorities, I refer to the British Encyclopedia 1771. Kotraaya indicates that once there was a huge country Tartaria, the provinces of which had different sizes. The largest province of this empire was called the Great Tartary and covered the lands of Western Siberia, Eastern Siberia and the Far East. In the southeast, it adjoined Chinese Tartary (Chinese Tartary) [request not to be confused with China (China)]. In the south of Great Tartary was the so-called Independent Tartary [Central Asia]. Tibetan Tartaria (Tibet) was located northwest of China and southwest of Chinese Tartaria. In the north of India was the Mongolian Tartaria (Mogul Empire) (modern Pakistan). The Uzbek Tartaria (Bukaria) was sandwiched between Independent Tartaria in the north; Chinese Tartaria in the northeast; Tibetan Tartary in the southeast; Mongolian Tartaria in the south and Persia in the southwest. In Europe, there were also several Tartaries: Muscovy or Moscow Tartaria (Muscovite Tartary), Kuban Tartaria (Kuban Tartars) and Little Tartaria (Little Tartary).
    Whoever has little British, let him look into the Spanish Encyclopedia. There is also preserved information about Great Tartaria. In the 6-volume Spanish encyclopedia "Diccionario Geografico Universal" 1795 of the year of publication, and, in a slightly modified form, in later editions of the Spanish encyclopedias. For example, back in the 1928 year, the Spanish encyclopedia "Enciclopedia Universal Ilustrada Europeo-Americana" contained a rather extensive article on Tartaria, which begins with the 790 page and occupies about 14 pages. This article has a lot of truthful information about the homeland of our ancestors - the Great Tartaria, but at the end “the spirit of the times” already affects, and inventions appear that we are familiar with now. So, China was given primordially Russian lands!
    1. sergerz
      sergerz 7 December 2013 07: 41
      12
      Quote: demotivator
      So, China was given primordially Russian lands!

      Well, let's fight with China for these islands, which drowned almost completely this summer. I visited during the years of service on these islands in the 70s. The squalor, I tell you, is absolute. And to give the lives of our border guards for this, and even spoil relations with the great power, which China is today. Then you have to fight for Tibet, and you will go, or you may give your children to this matter. Tartaria may or may not have been. Anglo-Saxons can easily rewrite books, just to embroil Russia with China. Let's believe them together. But is it not better to live in peace, to accumulate strength. The forces needed are by no means for the conquest of the lost territories, but for repelling the Anglo-Saxon aggression, which nevertheless is an existing fact. Unfortunately, we have unused territories in the Far East, and God grant us to use them. I’m telling you as a border guard. But there are no former border guards.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 7 December 2013 07: 56
        +7
        Quote: sergerz
        Well, let's fight with China for these islands, which drowned almost completely this summer

        China and Russia are jointly speaking at the UN now, because we don’t need any disagreements with China now, otherwise we’ll all be alone, although we don’t get used to it, but it’s undesirable now.
        1. Thunderbolt
          Thunderbolt 7 December 2013 08: 21
          +4
          Sash, the question of the islands is a bluff, it is such an international usual practice to fix ... the state of affairs between the two states ... And this simple question is used by provocative clicks and those who repeat it without understanding the meaning. Hello, Far East!)) )
    2. bashmak
      bashmak 7 December 2013 07: 53
      +8
      well done!!! treat the history of Russia in the British Encyclopedia. you still try Guadeloupe. then Muscovy will be Guadeloupe.
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 7 December 2013 08: 11
        +3
        Quote: bashmak
        well done!!!
        these fellows would like our land to become Oceania. And it is a stronghold, the bells hang in the belfries immovably, and they buzz on the whole earth only when the priest blesses. The same Russian triad sits in mines or dangles in the sea, but the word of his military the patriarch is always ready to hear.
        1. bashmak
          bashmak 7 December 2013 12: 07
          +3
          I fully support, but neither the British nor other Europeans write history! Fortification near Voronezh 30000 years! Americans are digging !!
          1. Lapotnik
            Lapotnik 9 December 2013 10: 20
            0
            Explain the meaning of the phrase. Contradict yourself.
          2. The comment was deleted.
      2. Login_Off
        Login_Off 7 December 2013 08: 20
        +3
        You fell chtoli from oak?
        There were somehow in Khabarovsk ... and I live there.
        Fighting for the islands? Yes, it beats !!!
        I can recall the whole history of the issue, which was not mentioned here. The border passed along the fairway. China began to strengthen its side of the coast and to dredge, thereby shifting the Amur riverbed.
        Russia did not bother to take retaliatory measures and everything was limited to some sort of negotiations.
        As a result, if they had not signed the treaty, the Amur riverbed went to the side and the island became Chinese.
        Not wanting to invest money, the President took a "heroic" step and divided everything in half.
        As a result, China is already fully equipping its part of the island.
        But we do not.
        1. sergerz
          sergerz 7 December 2013 08: 54
          12
          It may have collapsed, but unfortunately the territories north of Khabarovsk (50 km) are dead places. There the population is 1 person per square kilometer. What we do not master is that. In the 70s, dredgers walked along the Amur River and deepened the channel in the channels. But even then, in August, chalk channels and Chinese barges were carried along Khabarovsk. And a bunch of troops dispersed in the districts of Khabarovsk and waited for provocations from the Chinese. And they did.
          And in other places of the Amur border guards stupidly did not know how to protect the islands. It seems that both ours and the Chinese can’t fight. In the 60s before Damansky, they fought against the Chinese with clubs. After Damansky, the Chinese could already shoot.
          And all because in the days of Muravyov-Amur border due to the weakness of the then China led the border along the Chinese coast. It happened in the 70s border guards in hand-to-hand Chinese from the islands threw. Attended.
          You, if you think that we have collapsed with oak - try it. They are small, but there are many like cockroaches. On Damansky frontier guards showed unreal heroism. Do not believe me - read it. Only 58 fighters died the death of the brave.
          Today you can arrange such a meat grinder, and we need it?
          In the first years after the transfer of the islands, I myself swore at Putin, and I knew all these matters with the state of affairs at the border in detail. Now thinking - I silently agree. We can’t fight with China today. We are as weak as ever. We must gain strength, and having gained strength, China and I need to be friends. Russia and China have other enemies.
          1. Thunderbolt
            Thunderbolt 7 December 2013 09: 35
            0
            Quote: sergerz
            It’s necessary to gain strength
            That's the point, the point. It’s necessary to work. The rest of the remarks resemble the screams of October 16th in front-line Moscow. Special talkers did not even live to see the Parade
        2. Thunderbolt
          Thunderbolt 7 December 2013 09: 06
          +2
          Then publish the economic calculations: how many tugriks did the Russian land lose from the ... attention ... of the interstate agreement on the state of borders? You see, in the centuries of the absence of nuclear weapons, Russia took as many pieces of land as it wanted. And now either nuclear-limited states or no one can claim the territory of a neighbor. Live life to the fullest, comrades, China in this century is not going to turn into a nobody. Improve your competitiveness and demography, then our defense capability will increase. Now, and therefore, as it were, for always, every piece of the border between Russia and China IS UNSALABABLE and NON-TAKING. now some "graters" will arise then and we must be puzzled.
        3. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 7 December 2013 09: 42
          +2
          Quote: Login_Off
          As a result, China is already fully equipping its part of the island.

          Everything that has sunk into the water, so that we are pragmatists laughing
    3. alicante11
      alicante11 9 December 2013 12: 37
      0
      And why does he think that this story originates in 1858, and not much earlier? What, until this year, there were no other events in this territory? For those who need references to authorities, I refer to the British Encyclopedia 1771. Kotraaya indicates that once there was a huge country Tartaria, the provinces of which had different sizes.


      You still refer to the magazine "Murzilka". What is the legal significance of Encyclopedia Britannica? And even earlier, encyclopedists believed that the Earth was flat and stood on three whales. You are given legally binding documents. Well, we were strong, and China was weak, we squeezed the islands from the Chinese. China became strong, it was necessary to return too much. You can not resist with rams. Mine and that's it, there is a joint, we pay, we are not Americans.
  3. Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 7 December 2013 07: 19
    +4
    hi In detail all of course, BUT, .. During the time of Gorbachev during the negotiations in 1987-1991, which culminated in the signing of the 1991 Agreement on the Soviet-Chinese border, it was established that the border on the Amur River should pass along the main channel of the river ...-read the "Law on the State Border" ... One hundred with regards to territorial claims against Russia from China, I'm sure everything is ahead. And not all claims will necessarily be resolved at the government level.

    An article was published on the forum of the Chinese military portal club.mil.news.sina.com.cn, which the author entitled “Russia returns Siberia and the Far East to China, which contributes to Sino-Russian friendship and world peace!” It should be noted that such stuffing has become characteristic of the Chinese Internet, and with the help of them the Chinese authorities are not particularly openly forming public Chinese opinion on this issue.-you can believe it, you can NOT believe it, but you should pay attention. seehttp: //via-midgard.info/news/20537-kitajcy-obsuzhdayut-zaxvat-rossii.html
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 7 December 2013 07: 57
      +2
      Quote: Valery Neonov
      An article was published on the forum of the Chinese military portal club.mil.news.sina.com.cn, which the author entitled “Russia returns Siberia and the Far East to China, which contributes to Sino-Russian friendship and world peace!”

      It’s already laid out here, an ordinary Chinese Natsik, sits and writes all kinds of garbage. Our own liberals, they themselves are ready to divide and tear the country apart so that not one Chinese woman can ever dream of.
  4. almost demobil
    almost demobil 7 December 2013 07: 24
    +2
    As far as I know, among the Chinese this is not the last claim on the lands of the Far East. I myself haven’t seen it of course, but there is a fairy tale about a certain Chinese map, where the borders of China and Russia are very significantly pushed to the north. what
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 7 December 2013 07: 59
      +1
      Quote: almost demobilized
      I myself haven’t seen it myself, but there is a fairy tale about a certain Chinese map, where the borders of China and Russia are very significantly pushed to the north

      There is a map, and there is also a map of Russia on the Internet, so there Russia is Alaska and almost all of Europe and China itself, well, all of Japan, of course laughing
    2. Viator
      Viator 7 December 2013 08: 24
      +3
      Everyone has fairy tales. Someone about Russian elephants in Africa or the Arctic homeland, someone about the fact that there was not a Mongol conquest, but just a new dynasty - you never know they have appeared different over thousands of years. The Russians won, the Germans were tsars, and we have Mongols - why are we worse ... I met maps where half of Eurasia was Chinese, but this is all on such resources that are not just official, but at least just, say, you cannot call historical. So - high .. splashes of the blogosphere. They should not be taken either for the generally accepted sentiments among the people, or, moreover, for the official point of view of the authorities. Look at the Russian neo-pagan or neo-Nazi forums - there are the same eggs, the view from Hyperborea. By the way, I don’t know how everything is presented at school, but I saw the Chinese University Short Course on Russian History (Peking University Press) - there is not even a hint of something in the style of "they took our lands", I have not seen a single program on this the topic on more or less official channels, and among numerous Chinese acquaintances, I have never met such mentions in more than five years of my life in the country. I think there are, of course, local nationalists (as elsewhere), but they do not do the weather at all.
  5. makarov
    makarov 7 December 2013 07: 45
    -2
    The Chinese people at school teach that all the lands to the Urals belong to them, and the Russians are their subordinates. I don’t know what is correct and what is not in the section, but it’s known that if you put a finger in your mouth, they will gnaw off your hand to your shoulder ... and then they will take the second one.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 7 December 2013 07: 59
      0
      Quote: makarov
      The Chinese people at school teach that all the lands to the Urals belong to them, and the Russians are their subordinates

      A textbook in the studio! or link to it.
      1. makarov
        makarov 7 December 2013 10: 24
        +1
        SW Alexander. Infa in the network about it abound. I want to get acquainted, look. I’m not the right age to prove something on the net with foam at the mouth - I said that, and the way I think.
        1. Bigriver
          Bigriver 7 December 2013 13: 16
          0
          Quote: makarov
          SW Alexander. Infa in the network about it abound. I want to get acquainted, look. I’m not the right age to prove something on the net with foam at the mouth - I said that, and the way I think.

          I hear these tales from the boy's age when I was still living across the river with China in the 70s.
          You don’t find it strange that for 35-40 years of this talk about textbooks, would it be high time for some sane sources to show up?
          Or do you perceive individual cries in the NETWORK as a source?
        2. Andrew 447
          Andrew 447 7 December 2013 19: 34
          +2
          The Chinese people at school teach that all the lands to the Urals belong to them, and the Russians are their subordinates. Sorry for being rude, but this is nonsense. A good friend lives in China for 6 years, works on a contract, his son is 11 years old at an ordinary Chinese school. Well, there’s no such stupidity in their textbooks, I asked him (in the sense of a friend) several times .
    2. Andrey57
      Andrey57 7 December 2013 09: 57
      +1
      "Not subordinates, but barbarians, although the Chinese consider everyone who does not use chopsticks to eat food as barbarians. So we can relax - all spoon and fork eaters of food are barbarians, from the Chinese point of view!" fellow
      1. Andrew 447
        Andrew 447 7 December 2013 19: 39
        +1
        and according to the Chinese village beliefs, only BROWN eyes "see", light-colored eyes are "blind" and they are in the demons. As it was in the Chinese village in the south, a gang of children ran ahead of me and looked into my eyes (gray-blue) and with wild screaming in all directions, then they explained why. laughing
  6. Humpty
    Humpty 7 December 2013 07: 51
    +2
    According to my conservative estimates, due to the territory of the former USSR, China increased its territory by about 5000 km2. Today, the Chinese allegedly have no territorial claims in the north. I do not believe in this.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 7 December 2013 09: 45
      0
      [quote = Humpty] According to my conservative estimates, due to the territory of the former USSR, China increased its territory by about 5000 km2 [/ quote]
      Yes, well, can then confirm with the facts that they wrote? [Quote = Humpty Dummy]
      1. Humpty
        Humpty 7 December 2013 11: 03
        +2
        Figures are approximate. The Saryjaz basin is 150 km2. The sources of the Kokshaldarya -Uzengigush 850 km2. Eastern Pamir, Badakhshan - Sarykol ridge 3500 km ". Islands on the Amur.
        1. Humpty
          Humpty 7 December 2013 11: 07
          +2
          Uzengigush. The old border is marked in red.
  7. Nayhas
    Nayhas 7 December 2013 08: 29
    -4
    How the author wrapped the goose! He has an excuse for everything. Especially the reference to the times of the Russian Empire, to which the USSR, as well as its successor, the Russian Federation, has nothing to do, delivered. Legally. The USSR was not the successor of the Republic of Ingushetia and any claims against a nonexistent state do not apply to the Russian Federation. Tell comrade author easier, pissed in front of China and drained the land. But rejoicing that supposedly all territorial problems with China have been resolved, they forgot about the old adage "appetite comes with eating" ...
    1. Chertkov Oleg
      7 December 2013 18: 30
      -1
      ..But rejoicing that supposedly all territorial problems with China have been resolved, they forgot about the old saying "appetite comes with eating" ...

      Don't blow your cheeks. Putin has taken the right, difficult, not populist step. Issues were resolved and documents signed on all disputed territories. Cases have been archived! Future claims will be on the territory of the state of Russia, and not on the disputed (documented delimited) land-water as it was. Now everyone who can post "blank spots" on the cards. Russia is taking care of most of the Arctic, but there will still be roofing felts, the jackals will not just give it to us.
    2. alicante11
      alicante11 9 December 2013 15: 55
      0
      As a matter of fact, in matters of continuity there the devil himself will break his leg. But the fact that the Gorbachev USSR was negotiating with China and signing legally significant documents (ON THIS QUESTION), relying on agreements concluded with the Russian Empire, makes it impossible to reject these Chinese claims on the basis that the Russian Federation is not the legal successor of the Republic of Ingushetia. Since the Russian Federation is the legal successor of the USSR.
  8. krot
    krot 7 December 2013 09: 44
    -6
    They did everything right! And from the point of view of geopolitics, because China is almost our only ally against amers, and from the point of view of good neighborliness on the basis of the aforementioned treaties of the 1800s. All Siberia has left us, do not forget!
    1. Ihrek
      Ihrek 7 December 2013 12: 34
      +2
      He is an ally today, when he himself is in de because of disagreements with the USA and Japan. And how life will change in them, they can be the most dangerous and treacherous enemies under our side. An example in history was.
  9. Ahmed Osmanov
    Ahmed Osmanov 7 December 2013 09: 54
    +3
    Here the gentlemen are talking. What is happening, to whom we are giving away territories to everyone, something is needed from us. And look at the claims made by almost all countries.
    At the expense of China, he is not an easy partner, as his power increases, both economically and militarily, claims against Russia will be more and more. Their population is not "small" - 1,5 billion people, but our Far East is empty. So we draw conclusions. By the way, next year there will be a large-scale exercise Vostok-2014
  10. morpogr
    morpogr 7 December 2013 10: 34
    +1
    He served just at the time when the border was demarcated and the demarcation was consistent with the maps of the USSR. I served 92_94 and the border passed along the fairway. Amur was recognized as a common river for shipping, and this was happening. Especially the Chinese people fished on their junks (their boats were called). as well as collecting logs that fell from rafts from logs to rafts by our lumberjacks. Passenger ships between settlements both in China and in our country went full swing. The Chinese had such rarities as a wheeled steamer. And the Chinese border guards as well as we served boats and ships. It used to be organized who are faster, our boats won more often.
  11. Bongo
    Bongo 7 December 2013 11: 13
    +5
    It turns out that in vain our guys sacrificed their lives in Damansky?
    1. DimychDV
      DimychDV 7 December 2013 23: 12
      +1
      The guys performed their military and border duty. With honor and courage. But for those who have not resolved territorial issues between the two COMMUNIST powers, that is the BOLT for their careers.
      There is still a Khabarovsk citizen calls to fight for the island. For hayfields. They still need to be poured with Krrrrow ... Yes, the whole civilized world spends along the fairway of the border! And you propose on the eve of the fight with the Anglo-Saxons - for the controversially divided (by no means the last) crust of bread, fill the face of your own comrade-in-arms. Like, is he right there or wrong - the sediment remains, but this matter is only solved by massacre.
      And I've been all my adult life, since I was eight, I've been at the mass grave of 15 "damants" in Kamen-Rybolovo, my father was digging it. After March 2, 1969, 60 people from the local (then still Komissarovsky) border detachment were sent to reinforce at Iman. Every fourth did not return. I read the war leaflets brought from Damansky. Ml. Sergeant Stanislav Yurin, falling over the hillock, saw a lemon falling on the other side. And at the same moment I saw a Chinese grenade launcher aiming our armored personnel carrier. Yurin knew that now the grenade on the other side of the bump would explode. But he got up and cut a line of the Chinese RPG-schnick. And he died from a grenade explosion, but saved 10 -12 people in an armored personnel carrier (then they did not ride on armor yet). It was in this group of border guards there was that guy about whom they wrote the song "When it fell on white snow, he wrote the name of that girl in blood." When the Chinese knocked ours out of the island, they "made the sign of the cross" from the machine gun Yuri Akhmetshin. But he continued to crawl on the ice towards our coast and, according to legend, printed the name of the girl in blood on the snow. So it was or not - who will say now. The helicopter pilots took him off the ice, took him to the Imansky hospital, and he died on the operating table. The battle sheet says that his last words were "It is a pity that he did not serve much at the border." Maybe a political "delight", but maybe not - the guys were from the Ufa orphanage, 47-50 years old. Vladimir Bildushkinov from Ulan-Ude firmly grabbed the machine gun, the doctors refused to cut the tendons, the guy was put in a coffin with a disassembled PKK.
      The demarcation of the border must be completed, not inferior to the fact that ours is rightfully, but not hoping for the right of the strong. In the course of such demarcation, mutual compensations of territories are undoubtedly observed when straightening certain sections of the border. And the Chinese struggle for the fairway is understandable. They and Damansky joined themselves in the same way. After all, their Russian diplomat simply fooled, drawing the border along the water edge on the Chinese banks of the rivers. To live by the river and not have the right to use it for transport and fishing purposes (mainly during periods of aggravation of relations) - what is this?
      This is what gom the riverine Chinese of us, Russians, should consider! ..
  12. AK-47
    AK-47 7 December 2013 11: 27
    +3
    This is what the Chinese think about Russia and its citizens.
    ... I have a natural hatred of Russia. I am a young man from Northeast China. From a young age, in my family, adults told me: “They didn’t shame, otherwise“ hairy ”[“ Lao Mao Tzu ”- the common name for Russians in Manchuria will come!” Then I thought that the “hairy” are some kind of fabulous monsters. When I grew up, I realized: “hairy” is the Soviet Union, this is Russia. Then she was oh how strong! ... On the map of Eurasia, its territory hangs over our China with a huge spot. If not for Russia, China would be so big. However, in comparison with Russia, it is so small! I looked at the map - and the seeds of hatred sprouted deep in my heart. Now the northern bear has fallen - there is no one to fight back. The territorial issue is a matter of resources. It is also a matter of dignity. The polar bear not only seized our resources - it trampled on our dignity. Let me give you an example: let’s say that we are neighbors. My ancestors once robbed you of a garden. Now my family owns a large plot where my children can freely frolic, play and ride. You have a large family, and the site is small. What will you answer when your children ask - why do neighbors have so much land? I do not believe that our people cannot experience hatred and shame. The Russians robbed China of 1,5 million square kilometers of land. Mongolia - another 1,5 million. How many riches are there, how many beauties - forests, rivers, rare animals! As many as 3 million square kilometers! ... The Israelis are fighting the Arabs over several kilometers of territory. Their main argument is that 2000 years ago, Jews were the predominant people in these places. So why are we giving up such a vast territory? For the sake of an alliance with Russia? For the sake of several Su aircraft? For the sake of the fact that Russia has nuclear weapons? We have no reason to refuse [from these lands]! ..
    1. SmirnoFF
      SmirnoFF 7 December 2013 12: 32
      +5
      The mood in the article does not correspond to the true mood of the Northeast Chinese. I say this as a person who lived in Blagoveshchensk for many years and traveled all over China. I know many Chinese people personally, they do not hate Russians. Here they have a terrible attitude towards the Japanese, no one even buys Japanese cars.
    2. Chertkov Oleg
      7 December 2013 18: 39
      -3
      A simple agitation that can be printed among the Wahhabis, Banderlog, Crimean Tatars, in the Baltics with changes in geographic location. On the Internet, all infa "flows" like a stream, and it is impossible to hide such "mass" sentiments.
  13. alone
    alone 7 December 2013 11: 29
    +7
    he who says that China is an ally of Russia is very deeply mistaken. It is better to have a worthy enemy than such an ally.
    1. Bigriver
      Bigriver 7 December 2013 14: 23
      -2
      Quote: lonely
      the one who says that China is an ally of Russia, he is very deeply mistaken. It is better to have a worthy enemy than such an ally.

      And who is talking about this? .. who is mistaken :))
      This is a strategic PARTNERSHIP, which does not deny the same partnership with the opponents of China in the Asia-Pacific region - India, Vietnam, Malaysia .., and Japan and South Korea.
      What, PARTNERSHIP with China limits our foreign policy maneuver?
      Does it impose any obligations on us?
      The foreign policy line in this direction, IMHO, is impeccable. It pursues the goal of walking along the fine line of "cooperation" without getting involved in the graters of the "Big Blocks".
      Clarification of the relationship: who is the "coolest" in the APR - should be a side picture for us.
      1. Chertkov Oleg
        7 December 2013 18: 41
        -2
        I approve, everything is so.
  14. Ihrek
    Ihrek 7 December 2013 11: 48
    +2
    The result of the mediocre policy of Khrushev and Gorbachev. Putin most likely made the right decision, but the residue, as they say, remained. And this residue is very unpleasant. Remember how the slogan sounded in the heroic time "MOTHERLAND - MOTHER is calling!" I think Motherland and mother should be synonymous. Selling your Motherland is like selling your mother.
    1. Chertkov Oleg
      7 December 2013 18: 43
      -3
      Nonsense, MOTHER no one trades. Read the article and comments carefully.
  15. SmirnoFF
    SmirnoFF 7 December 2013 13: 04
    +2
    A curious relationship between the fact that the Chinese authorities changed the channel of the Amur River, and the flood in 2013 in the Far East ...
  16. Bigriver
    Bigriver 7 December 2013 14: 35
    +1
    Plus an article, as a Khabarovsk citizen, and a man who has been living on the border with China for about 40 years.
    God forbid you to experience the feeling of a Russian living on the Amur in the Mao era of the early 70s. In each yard, "trunks" were counted. In interpersonal communication repeat
    Dull cons - minus no opportunity repeat With this - nothing to do. There will always be know-it-alls who have opinions contrary to judgment.
    I read the whole thread with interest. "Minushers" in the case did not say WHAT! Acre of slogans.
  17. soldier's grandson
    soldier's grandson 7 December 2013 14: 37
    +4
    the Chinese hate us in the open and at our house, I went into a Chinese store, and there a Chinese woman told me that the store would not work for two hours, when I asked if they had such a product, then in response I heard: "Settled nah Russian pig ", now I hate these monkeys and do not buy anything from them, but I forgot to add that the store burned down after that, apparently she was rude to someone else, these ungrateful monkeys forgot who saved them from complete destruction
  18. The comment was deleted.
  19. sasska
    sasska 7 December 2013 14: 58
    +1
    Quote: Alexander Romanov

    There is a map, and there is also a map of Russia on the Internet, so there Russia is Alaska and almost all of Europe and China itself, well, all of Japan, of course laughing


    Well, Finnish schoolchildren show such a map of Russia in textbooks (watch carefully!)
    1. alone
      alone 7 December 2013 17: 34
      -1
      Quote: sasska
      Well, Finnish schoolchildren show such a map of Russia in textbooks (watch carefully!)


      Who made the map? Brothers Grimm or Hans Christian Andersen?
    2. Chertkov Oleg
      7 December 2013 18: 48
      0
      Otkel firewood? Hurt.
  20. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 7 December 2013 15: 14
    +3
    The difficult problems with territorial disputes between Russia and China are extremely felt when you are in these disputed territories. In the 1969 year, passing to Sakhalin, he visited Khabarovsk. The time was alarming. Daman had just finished off. For a long time he stood on the "high bank of the Amur", looked at the Chinese land. The thought treacherously entered my head: and if now shy away from Khabarovsk. After Damansky, one could expect anything from them.
  21. Ross
    Ross 7 December 2013 15: 24
    +2
    Quote: lonely

    After the transfer of the islands at a joint meeting of the commissions of China and Russia, which are engaged in the demarcation of the border, the Chinese side put forward about one and a half hundred new
    claims to Russia about the territories. So the problem has not yet been resolved by transferring 337 sq. km

    It all started when Muravyov gave the Chinese the lands of Chinese Tartaria south of the Amur River, which had never belonged to them. Now, the Chinese Han, having absorbed the lands of their geopolitical adversary, who had opposed the Han Chinese for thousands of years, are making claims on the rest of the lands of Tartaria.
    1. Bigriver
      Bigriver 7 December 2013 17: 39
      -1
      Quote: Ross
      ... It all started when Muravyov gave the lands of Chinese Tartaria to the Chinese ...

      EVERYTHING starts with stupidity. Only particular - from knowledge and mind.
      Stupidity - always stands on the lack of knowledge and exploits the desire of the masses in simple answers.
  22. Yarosvet
    Yarosvet 7 December 2013 16: 24
    +5
    ----------------------------------
  23. Christian
    Christian 7 December 2013 16: 37
    +5
    The transfer of the territory of the Russian Empire is betrayal. Do not explain ...
    1. creak
      creak 7 December 2013 22: 17
      0
      And what about the transfer of the PRC naval base of Port Arthur and the city of Dalniy in the early 50s, also abundantly watered with the blood of our soldiers? Many have already forgotten about this ... So even in the days of the USSR, the matter was not limited to Damansky ... The policy of unilateral territorial concessions in the future will only push China to new territorial claims, and not strengthen bilateral relations. A precedent is very important in politics, but it already exists and it is not a matter of the size of the transferred territory ....
      1. Mikado
        Mikado 8 December 2013 00: 28
        +3
        Port Arthur was not our territory legally then, this was a lease for a period of 30 years, it was stopped ahead of schedule. Just like the Hanko Peninsula in Finland, which was never ours legally, but there was only a rent, which was stopped ahead of schedule and no less blood was shed on it
  24. sasska
    sasska 7 December 2013 23: 17
    +1
    Quote: Oleg Chertkov
    Otkel firewood? Hurt.

    picture - from here http://nstarikov.ru/blog/20473
  25. sasska
    sasska 8 December 2013 00: 14
    +1
    Quote: Ross
    Now, the Chinese Han, having absorbed the lands of their geopolitical adversary, who had opposed the Han Chinese for thousands of years, are making claims on the rest of the lands of Tartaria.

    personal opinion and does not pretend to the foreign policy of the Russian Federation: what about them, Asians, in ... ("back gate").
    Apparently, the right time has not come yet.
  26. Mikado
    Mikado 8 December 2013 00: 22
    0
    The author beautifully writes "... for the first time in the history of Russia and China, all claims and controversial issues were removed from the entire 4300 km stretch of the Russian-Chinese border." Forgets to say that China is again putting forward territorial claims to Russia, for the same Amur in 150 places, plus in Altai. China withdrew claims and raised again, so the Chinese brothers cheated Vovchik, but now he sings songs on TV that he should be imprisoned for 20 years for calls to give up part of the territory, handsome
  27. SmirnoFF
    SmirnoFF 8 December 2013 13: 09
    0
    I read somewhere a version that Muravyov himself did not know exactly where the border (passed) between Tartary and China was. And after the conquest of the first, having gathered a council with the participation of a Chinese delegation, he proposed to draw the border along the Amur (not knowing that the border between Tartary and China passed along the "Chinese wall"). The Chinese agreed with great pleasure.