Military Review

Russian trail of the virus Stuxnet

121
I am a professional programmer and a physicist by training, so everything that is stated in this article is not speculation, I can do all this on my own, with my own little hands. Yes, and I have much more information on the topic than I can state on this information site that is not relevant to me.
So if you object to the forum, think to whom you object.

This is not for youWeapon from the pass, where I look like an amateur, I am a professional in this subject, so take heed of yours with respect.

Let's start with stories a hundred years ago

In 1905, during the passage of the military column along the "Egyptian" bridge in St. Petersburg, it collapsed due to a strong “swinging” then said. Now we would say because of the resonance.



The basic version is that the design of the bridge could not withstand too rhythmic oscillations from the harmonious step of the military, which caused a resonance in it. This version was included in the school curriculum in physics as a clear example of resonance.

In addition, a new military command “to go out of step” was introduced; it is given a drill column before entering any bridge.

The history is instructive in the sense that when confronted with an unknown phenomenon, the military promptly understood it and took adequate measures to prevent it in the future.

We would now have such thoughtfulness and efficiency.

Accident at the Sayano-Shushenskaya HPP

In modern Russia, a hundred years later a similar catastrophe occurred. As a result of the accident of power unit No. XXUMX of the Sayano-Shushenskaya HPP 2 August 17, the machine room was destroyed and the HPP was completely stopped, the accident claimed 2009 human lives (no people died on the bridge).



Officially, the cause of the accident in the act of the commission of inquiry into the circumstances of the accident is formulated as follows:

Due to the repeated occurrence of additional loads of variable nature on the hydraulic unit associated with transitions through the not recommended zone, fatigue damage to the attachment points of the hydraulic unit, including the turbine cover, was formed and developed. The destruction of the studs caused by dynamic loads led to the breakdown of the turbine cover and depressurization of the hydraulic unit power supply line.

If you translate into an understandable language, the power unit (hydraulic turbine connected to an electric generator) collapsed due to long-term work in areas of load on which there are resonances of an electromechanical system.

A hundred years ago, the experts dealt with the situation and drew conclusions, which everyone has followed until now, no one will ever cancel the “upset step” command.

But at the present time they did not understand the reasons, and they did not draw conclusions.

The region of resonances in the document is vaguely called the “non-recommended zone.” Officials didn’t have enough courage to even call everything by their proper names, let alone draw conclusions. Events meanwhile developed further.

Stuxnet virus

Stuxnet was the first computer virus to damage physical objects. Because of him, many centrifuges at Iran’s nuclear facilities failed in 2010. The cyber attack at the Iranian uranium enrichment plant in Nethenes has delayed the development of Iran’s nuclear program for several years.



Military analysts admit that Stuxnet has become a new milestone in the development of cyber weapons. From the virtual space, it has passed into reality, since the attack of such a virus affects not physical but real objects.

The destruction of the centrifuges by the Stuxnet virus was carried out by the resonance method of the electromechanical design of the centrifuge. Explained on the fingers, the gas centrifuge has a fast-rotating shaft (20-50 thousands of revolutions per minute), which turns the electric motor. The electric motor is controlled by the controller, if this controller is reprogrammed so that it periodically changes the centrifugal shaft speed (called “frequency beats” for professionals), then at certain “beating” frequencies the system will go into resonance and the shaft axis bearings will collapse.

And it will look like a normal breakdown not related to the operation of the electronics and the programs of the electric motor control controller. First, the vibration will increase, then the nuts fasten the housing parts, then the bearings are broken and the system eventually wedges and loses tightness.

The Stuxnet virus, which hit the object, did just that, reprogrammed the Simatic S7 motor control controller so that it would produce a voltage with a beat frequency that is a multiple of the resonant frequencies of the rotating centrifuge shaft.

The process of increasing the amplitude of the resonance can take hours, if not days, so for the staff it looked like a design defect of the centrifuge itself.

The Iranians did not understand that their centrifuges were destroying the virus until programmers from Belarus discovered the virus itself and did not understand its functional load. Only after this, the Stuxnet virus gained worldwide fame, and Iran recognized that its nuclear facility had been purposefully attacked for at least one year by this very cyber weapon.

What happened at the Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric power station

The accident at the second hydraulic unit of the Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric power station occurred because of a resonance, as it was at the beginning of the twentieth century Petersburg, as it was a year later in Iran. Moreover, it can be argued that the equipment was deliberately introduced into resonance using the methods implemented in the Stuxnet virus.

The fact is that at the time of the accident the unit was controlled by automatics. Manual control for the issuance of constant power was turned off and the unit operated in the mode of compensation for the load pulsations in the power systems of western Siberia.

When commissioning the equipment, the resonant frequencies are checked and the acceptance certificates indicate the modes in which the equipment is prohibited.

Ukrainian experts in March, 2009, removed these most important parameters from the second unit (during scheduled maintenance) where and in which hands this data fell unknown, but it can be assumed.

Having these data, it is not at all difficult to swing the unit's system through the microcontroller of the control of the piped operator so that it gradually, over several hours, drives the turbo unit with the electric generator on the same shaft into the resonance zone.

After that, the studs began to turn away from vibrations holding the turbine cover, which was the direct cause of the disaster.

The operation of the turbine and the generator in automatic mode is controlled by a special system, called the group control system of active and reactive power (GRARM).

Russian trail of the virus Stuxnet


The electronic part of the GRARM control cabinet is made on the basis of a Fastwell PC-compatible microcomputer.

This system was activated at the time of the accident at the second unit. The system was installed and put into operation at the beginning of 2009, shortly before the accident. This system was developed and installed by the company "PromAvtomatika" on the basis of imported equipment.

Naturally, no one thought about Information Security then, this system had direct access to the Internet, the resonant frequencies of the unit were known.

I think no further explanation is necessary, something happened that happened ...

Colleagues from Israel and the United States successfully tested cyber weapons for the destruction of infrastructure facilities in practice, then of course you need to create a special kind of troops for its use, which the US did in the same 2009 year by organizing Cyber ​​Command with 10 people.

Cyber ​​weapon

Computer viruses in the third millennium became also weapons and were called “Cyber ​​weapons”, moreover, in many countries these weapons are allocated to a separate branch of troops, the generalized name of which with the light hand of Americans became the name “Cyber ​​Command”.



The commander of these armed forces received a very fantastic name, do not believe it, in the USA it is called “Cyber ​​King”, and the Russian word is used for the official name of the American commander.

This weapon has already been used in the undeclared war between the United States and Israel against Iran. Most likely it was used in Russia, at the Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric station, there is its trace in the accident on the Indian project of leasing nuclear submarines.

The same St. Petersburg firm there again lit up; it was the developer of fire extinguishing equipment, which, as a result of spontaneous triggering, led to the death of people on sea trials ... but this is a separate issue.
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  1. 311ove
    311ove 6 December 2013 07: 58
    50
    I don’t know about the hydroelectric power station, but how could it be a version, but the fact that our electronics, first of all the production of the element base was completely destroyed, for me it is absolutely certain! It began somewhere just in perestroika. If there was a lag, then the minimum - with respect to the TV, was expressed mainly in the design and material of the case. Inside Grundig or Philips of the beginning of the 80s, practically our 3STC .... But they took a step forward, and we are no longer ... recourse
    1. Canep
      Canep 6 December 2013 09: 01
      17
      Quote: 311ove
      But they took a step forward, and we are no longer ...

      Now you need to take 5-6 steps forward, or buy modern technology.
      And about the hydroelectric power station, I don’t think that the reason is resonance, and especially cyber weapons. Under load, the hydraulic unit rotates at a constant speed (independent of the load value) equal to the mains frequency (50 Hz) divided by the number of pairs of generator poles. If I decided to break down the station, it is easier to open the fully regulating gate (damper), and it is advisable to block its manual control, and then disconnect the load from the generator. The turbine unit will go into the distribution and is likely to collapse.
      1. GHG
        GHG 6 December 2013 10: 24
        17
        For this, there is a protection for the "excess of the speed of the hydrogenerator", the emergency repair gates are reset at a speed of more than 160% (?) But this is already the 2nd stage, the 1st stage is 120%: the emergency spool closes, i.e. full closure of the guide The G-Generator has enough hydro-mechanical protection, and only a fully prepared sabotage under the guidance of a qualified specialist would lead you to success.
        1. Canep
          Canep 6 December 2013 10: 47
          +9
          You are right to circumvent all protection systems can only a group of saboteurs under the guidance of specialist energy. And neither is it a virus. I honestly forgot about the guiding apparatus, it is not adjustable at thermal stations, though there are control valves and emergency protection valves. I am sure - the reason for poor-quality repairs.
          1. GHG
            GHG 6 December 2013 10: 56
            +2
            Given my humorous nature, I in turn conducted emergency training exercises, which were slightly related to this topic, to the operational personnel of the small hydropower plant.
            1. igor.borov775
              igor.borov775 8 December 2013 18: 16
              0
              And why should there be such a case, Boys from the forest in Kabarda disabled the Baksan hydroelectric station, the main feature of this station is that the units were pre-war and worked and there were no major accidents, and most surprisingly in good condition, And only a gangster attack forced to take up the replacement of these old turbines, It’s just the attitude to what you have been trusted, And they didn’t save wherever possible, And the diversion was completely squeezed out with saving money and materials, it seems to me that they saved where it’s impossible at all by definition not assembled a team of specialists,
            2. AVV
              AVV 9 December 2013 00: 19
              0
              Well, just recently, Kaspersky warned that this Virus is a rather dangerous infection, and as always, money for security is spared or stolen even worse !!! And what if such an Accident at a nuclear facility? This is a war, although there is an agreement with America in this area !!! But do the Yankees ever fulfill them ??? We must keep our ears sharp !!!
          2. Ptah
            Ptah 6 December 2013 10: 58
            +6
            For the fact that the article does not say a word about the degree of interaction between electronics and mechanics, at least it does not deserve a "+".
            Now, after accidents, we often hear the term "human factor" and calls to switch to electronic (cybernetic) methods of managing systems.
            But the author, it seems to me, suggests thinking about the possibility of sabotage through electronic stuffing, in particular remote access.
          3. Geisenberg
            Geisenberg 6 December 2013 19: 59
            +3
            Quote: Canep
            You are right to circumvent all protection systems can only a group of saboteurs under the guidance of specialist energy ...


            This is if something needs to be quickly and efficiently exploded. If the system is controlled by a processor connected to the network, a programmer and a mathematician are sufficient, that is, two people. In real life - one.

            The system can be vulnerable through the control system, through the periphery, if the first two objects are invulnerable then there are always design errors through which it is destroyed. This was manifested in the hydraulic unit - a vulnerable control system disabled the unit using design errors.
          4. StolzSS
            StolzSS 6 December 2013 20: 22
            0
            And here it is not so. Have you seen the vertical maps of various complex rooms? Using the same technology, you can disable passive safety features. Here, after all, the amount of information on the object also plays a role. If you know exactly where the piece of iron is and how it works then everything is in your hands.
            1. kavkaz8888
              kavkaz8888 12 December 2013 09: 08
              0
              And also in the article it is written about the Ukrainian specialists who took the data. So there were no problems with the "amount of information".
              And there is a question. The commission was a specialist computer specialists ???
          5. ser86
            ser86 12 December 2013 10: 08
            0
            The Rules for Technical Operation of Power Plants and Networks of the Russian Federation contain clause 5.9. Relay protection and electrical automation dedicated to equipment protection
            Usually Technological Protections give a command to reduce the load or shut down a power unit on an automated process control system
            at the station where I worked, technological protections are made on relay circuits, the electronics are minimal there, the protection units are independent of each other

            those. in order for the virus to pass and take effect, you must disable protection
            let's say at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant they did so to check the "run-out" of the generator, the switched on automatic protection would not allow this to be done

            In addition, the equipment at hydroelectric power plants and heating plants has not changed for a long time, because new equipment expensive it just does not change
            I'm sure 60 percent that ultrasonic flaw detection of a turbine unit revealed the presence of microcracks in it, which also served in the development of the accident
        2. shpuntik
          shpuntik 6 December 2013 13: 46
          +9
          GES RU Today, 10:24 ↑ New
          G-Generator has enough hydro-mechanical protections and only a fully prepared diversion under the guidance of a qualified specialist would lead you to success.

          What you think about this data is probably this:
          So, according to the EXPERT magazine (Moscow, September 21–27, 2009, No. 36, pp. 36–38) over the past two years (mind you, not a month) from the zone of the lower power mode (100 megawatts) of the turbine to the upper an area (600 megawatts) of the “second turbine” was driven out at least 20 thousand times (!). Just think (for lovers of numbers - 27,47 zone changes per day, or 1,14 regime changes in 1 hour), through which typhoon of resonant processes when changing “zones of its activity” this “technical creature driven to death” made its way! But "in life" the unit at extreme points should be 1-3 times !!

          http://expert.ru/expert/2009/36/pochemu_turbiny_letayut/
          1. GHG
            GHG 6 December 2013 16: 10
            +2
            The second turbine participated in the primary regulation of frequency and voltage, GRARM shifted the change in frequency and voltage in the system mainly to GA No. 2 without taking into account permissible load conditions according to the results of vibration tests.
            I would assign part of the responsibility to the "UES System Operator" and the HPP administration. This is definitely not sabotage, but criminal negligence.
            I do not need to judge anyone, this is the work of others, I just express my assumption.
            1. shpuntik
              shpuntik 6 December 2013 20: 46
              +1
              GES RU Today, 16:10 ↑
              ... GRARM shifted the change in frequency and voltage in the system mainly to GA No. 2 without taking into account permissible load conditions according to the results of vibration tests.

              The vibration of such a rotor is felt with its feet, without any sensors. If, for example, I have been working for 20 years on one object, I have a head on my shoulders, then I will see a malfunction and stop the mechanism. This is felt internally when there is experience. I think so.
              The second point: the watch operators were rattled, the rotor scuffed against the stator, the speed was 200 rpm, the rotor mass was less than the stator mass twice, should the stator break off the fasteners and "jump" up? Definitely not. It has centrifugal forces, the gap is small, it should have been jammed and that's it.
              Take any 2-10 kW electric motor, they probably changed the bearings in it: at first it rattles like a "victim" and heats up, and then it will go crazy completely (which I have never seen, it must be "hammered" on it for it to happen ), especially since the side mounts will not fly off, why on earth ??
              Additionally (when the turbine shaft is skewed), the impeller must also jam, there is also no limitless clearance.
              And what we are seeing: a turbine that jumped up and the official version of the "water hammer". For a water hammer, air is needed, it can break off the blades, but the consequences will be no more than I described above. And where does the air come from, if the water level is high, because the mechanism works with water pressure.
              Only an explosion in water (in view of its density) can give such a result. That's all. Well, this is my personal opinion, I do not impose it on anyone. hi
              I do not need to judge anyone, this is the work of others, I just express my assumption.

              And I would have planted, so 80 people, according to the number of victims. negative
              1. shpuntik
                shpuntik 6 December 2013 21: 04
                +1
                shpuntik RU Today, 20:46 ↑ New

                http://www.plotina.net/sshges-rassokhin-4/
                http://www.plotina.net/sshges-rassokhin-5/
                http://bikol-sajanges.blogspot.ru/
              2. GHG
                GHG 6 December 2013 21: 46
                +1
                Air is optional for water hammer. In small systems ... like a domestic water supply, a similar phenomenon is observed in air with water, but this is not a water hammer.
                Water hammer is a physical phenomenon observed when the shutoff valves are closed abruptly.
                Water hammer (water hammer) is a pressure jump in a system filled with a liquid, caused by an extremely rapid change in the flow rate of this liquid in a very short period of time. May occur due to abrupt closing or opening of the valve.

                By the way, in every hydraulic turbine there is an air inlet valve in the impeller zone. It opens when a pressure vacuum appears in the suction pipe, which manifests itself at idle and a small load. The continuity of the water flow makes itself felt, and the air valve makes itself felt by a nasty whistle in the area of ​​100-120 dB. So air is a must for any turbine.
                At the expense of stopping the turbine:
                Tangible Vibration is observed only during transients during the passage of a set-load shedding at non-recommended intervals.
                1. shpuntik
                  shpuntik 7 December 2013 01: 51
                  +1
                  GES RU Yesterday, 21:46 p.m. ↑
                  Water hammer is a physical phenomenon observed when the shutoff valves are suddenly closed.

                  Then, water hammer and speech should not be discussed if there is no slam, or no return. Typically, the flow is controlled by a valve shutter, there will be no water hammer.
                  So air is a must for any turbine.

                  I meant the air section in the pipe at the entrance to the turbine, a large volume. About the valve that you are talking about, air suction, as I understand it, not in a large volume, to compensate for the vacuum in the cochlea. There will still be air bags if the outflow is greater than the inflow, and the valve gives control of the process, averaging the negative.
                  Although I am not a dock in these turbines, the official version seems implausible.
                  1. GHG
                    GHG 9 December 2013 18: 08
                    0
                    Then, water hammer and speech should not be discussed if there is no slam, or no return. Typically, the flow is controlled by a valve shutter, there will be no water hammer.

                    Just the flow control is carried out by a guiding apparatus. Water hammer just happens when it is abruptly closed.
                2. gridasov
                  gridasov 7 December 2013 13: 08
                  +1
                  Let me note that the pressure jump is a magnetodynamic interaction. Which by the way, has very visible momentum direction vectors. It is after such a jump. That is, the energy impulse must be transformed in a vector that counteracts forces. So in the scheme proposed above, everything looks obvious. Where should the surge of this force be. Therefore, the turbine and raised.
                  1. shpuntik
                    shpuntik 7 December 2013 20: 39
                    +1
                    gridasov UA Today, 13:08 ↑
                    Let me note that the pressure jump is a magnetodynamic interaction. Which by the way, has very visible momentum direction vectors. It is after such a jump.

                    Yes, I understand you. The experts on sopromat and energy field argue about the same tricky way. Look at the links in my comment above. It will be interesting. And in this thread, I posted the video. There the flame erupts, an explosion is visible. The electric arc should not be in the water, the more protection on the short circuit always works out quickly, in a split second.
              3. gridasov
                gridasov 7 December 2013 01: 47
                +2
                Those who are familiar with hydrodynamics know that if water is supplied to the turbine from the periphery, then the centripetal flow causes a vector perpendicular to it. Therefore, the situation is elementary. The abrupt opening of the water supply created this vector. Everything else is nonsense. All this means that there are virtually no perpetrators. Blame the scientists who created and are creating such turbines without taking into account the transformation of flow vectors. Let water into the closed cone and see where the impulse of the flow will be. In this case, the turbine did not allow all the water to pass through and the exact flow vector formed that raised it. The conclusions of the commission are the conclusions of amateurs.
                1. shpuntik
                  shpuntik 7 December 2013 02: 14
                  +2
                  gridasov UA Today, 01:47 ↑ New
                  In this case, the turbine did not allow all the water to pass through and the exact flow vector formed that raised it.

                  Yoli-pali, what does it mean "raised" ?? She herself is 1500 tons, and M80 studs are made of special steel. How to raise such a thing ?! request
                  The momentum of the flow and the vector, this is understandable, but before that it worked, everything was calculated with a safety margin of 2, or even more.
                  About "missed", she shouldn't miss everything. After all, we are talking about hydrodynamics: in terms of design, it is a centrifugal pump with a back pressure, it only works for generation. Correspondingly, the flow control must be at the outlet of the turbine. If the speed of the impeller increases (load shedding, increased flow rate), then the flow area at the outlet is reduced.
                  The water in the pipe cannot pull out the faucet in your kitchen. Whatever the twists. The valve may whistle, rattle, but the plate should not fly out of it. Even Bernoulli will confirm. wink
                  1. gridasov
                    gridasov 7 December 2013 21: 26
                    +1
                    I don’t argue. Everyone sees and understands to the best of their abilities. Torn fasteners are only an indicator of what forces of interaction. For example, in shaft centrifugal pumps, when certain performance parameters are reached, an axial shift in the direction of suction of over ten tons occurs. He just tears off the bed. This is many orders of magnitude lower in flow performance. So, both the studs and the mass of the turbine itself are children's parameters.
                    Why am I writing? Because when we created our innovative turbine, we were faced with the question that the turbine should work in the balance of forces and vectors at the suction and at the outlet. Etc
                2. GHG
                  GHG 9 December 2013 18: 37
                  +1
                  Well, it's not that simple. You probably don't know that the volute is always under pressure? Even in a standing turbine, it is held back from pressure by the guide vanes, which in the "0" position are completely closed to prevent the slightest leakage.
                  To understand its principle of operation, I’ll throw the picture a little lower. Because, as I understand it, few people know what’s what.
            2. Mature naturalist
              Mature naturalist 6 December 2013 21: 12
              0
              Quote: GES
              This clearly does not look like sabotage, but criminal negligence.

              I would write: "for non-professionalism."
            3. The comment was deleted.
      2. Vovka levka
        Vovka levka 6 December 2013 12: 39
        +2
        Quote: Canep
        Quote: 311ove
        But they took a step forward, and we are no longer ...

        Now you need to take 5-6 steps forward, or buy modern technology.

        And who will sell you modern technology? They are certainly greedy, but not stupid. Firstly, secondly, even if they sell something, then while you start production, they will go to the front. Everything changes quickly. Thirdly, who will finance it all and do it, who cares, and what profit can be made from it? Do you think in modern realities it is interesting to someone? This is hemorrhoids in the back, who needs it? But oil, gas, metal is interesting, there is profit and fast, but you want someone to invest money and maybe in five years you will receive 5% of the profit. Although you can say with confidence in 100% that he will get a muzzle with poppy seeds.

        What about the accident?
        Of course you always want to find an enemy, preferably external, this is the easiest way. But here everything is simpler, it is the greed of leadership and sloppiness.
        1. Andrey57
          Andrey57 6 December 2013 13: 29
          12
          In Zelenograd, there is quite a modern system for the production of chips, no worse than imported ones, these chips provide all the equipment of the Strategic Missile Forces and much more, you just need to invest in expanding production, since there is someone who can design processors. By the way, a very decent percentage of Itella processors are being designed in Moscow ...
          1. Vovka levka
            Vovka levka 6 December 2013 15: 36
            +3
            Quote: Andrey57
            In Zelenograd, there is quite a modern system for the production of chips, no worse than imported ones, these chips provide all the equipment of the Strategic Missile Forces and much more, you just need to invest in expanding production, since there is someone who can design processors. By the way, a very decent percentage of Itella processors are being designed in Moscow ...

            As for the brains, there are no questions. We have gifted people, but the trouble is that nobody needs them.
            What about production? Vague doubts torment you?
            1. Mature naturalist
              Mature naturalist 6 December 2013 21: 18
              0
              Quote: Vovka Levka
              What about production? Vague doubts torment you?

              The old AMD-shny plant using 90-nm technology is the most modern. I don’t know if it was commissioned or not. Purchased, probably, about 10 years ago.
              The rest of the technology is even more ancient, but it’ll work for the defense industry - it performs its functions, though the equipment is bulky and heavy, and requires more power ...
              But now is not Soviet times. The slogan "DP (catch up and overtake)" no one will throw and will not execute :(
            2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Geisenberg
        Geisenberg 6 December 2013 19: 56
        +1
        Quote: Canep
        Quote: 311ove
        But they took a step forward, and we are no longer ...

        Now you need to take 5-6 steps forward, or buy modern technology.
        And about the hydroelectric power station, I don’t think that the reason is resonance, and especially cyber weapons.


        Nenad, we run nowhere and chase after no one. All that is needed is to improve what is without looking at others. It is necessary to observe and draw conclusions unconditionally, but to chase is pointless.

        Regarding HPPs, what you don’t think about can not be an obstacle to programming a controller on a turbine. Hydroelectric power station, one of the oldest in this country, could not just pick up and hit on the fact that you do not think something.
      4. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 6 December 2013 21: 31
        +4
        The easiest way is to overhaul the Varangians, consisting of an account and a round seal, which was done. The repair performed on the coppers left after the robbery by some kind of left-handed boys did not improve the performance much by the order of the tired unit. Of course, the idea that someone was pumping the speed of the unit for hours and the DIS did not notice anything, this is of course the juice. But...
        Yes, this is all fundamentally possible. As I have written many times - WHY do the hydraulic unit, its control circuits, access to the network? There is nothing more to do but to drive a data array to some distant uncle? Why on earth? In both the first and second cases, not only full monitoring capabilities were left. There was access to remote programming !!
        The mental inferiority of both the manual and the programming specialists is simply amazing. Both of these can be understood. The bosses are as if afraid of smart subordinates. Therefore, their own specialist in working with the hardware-software complex is worse for them than death. The authors of the control systems want to receive money regularly and a lot - for the maintenance, configuration and reprogramming of the systems.
        Only one is missing. Horror does not reach the Master. Joseph Vissarionovich, damn it ...
      5. igor.borov775
        igor.borov775 8 December 2013 17: 39
        0
        Good reasoning, Mr. SAPER, but far from life, turbinists will now smile, for such a case there is an independent such device, you can’t turn it off, you can’t disconnect the button, you can only dismantle it when the unit is on, and if you dismantle it, everyone will see right away it’s probably all easier there is, otherwise there will be no bonus And there really has been trouble with Nerpa until now, there is no clear explanation yet, It’s not so easy for nothing the court rushes about in one place, it’s not guilty, the jury’s conclusion, There really needs a very competent scientific examination, And it must put all the points, And what presented in court does not convince, And what's interesting with Protons is not so simple, we checked that there was no one where the sensor was turned upside down, and which flew upside down, it doesn’t remind you anything, I can’t believe that the specialist didn’t take the boy and turned it over wondering who behind an inverted sensor, I’m not talking about a worker; everything seems a lot more serious there than we are presented with, otherwise everything that has fallen can be pulled there, We’re where we don’t find out that in fact there was a very high level of secrecy,
      6. nov_tech.vrn
        nov_tech.vrn 12 December 2013 13: 06
        +1
        well, who will sell this equipment? There is definitely no US firm, there is an appropriate mechanism for blocking such transactions, through the control of the licensing system, foreign companies associated with the United States also cannot be resolved. All research in which scientists or materials related to US research centers will be involved will also not provide materials. You don't have to be blind kittens. They sold us old stuff, working 90 nm is not better, these are two generations, which means that all solutions there are 15 years out of date. No Skolkovo will help with all sorts of foreign "professors", they know that they will live and work in the West, and in the Moscow region , they earn extra money, only their national developers, there are still heads, only state programs, no "businessmen" will get into the sector with such high risks, which will give an unknown return. Another question, where is the national software? For the French, the overwhelming majority of PCs in government services work on their own Linux-based developments, all of us are eager for Windows, what are they motivating well? In schools, computer science is used to study Microsoft, Livanov - AU, "who pays for tuition - are they or we?"
    2. Andrey KZ
      Andrey KZ 6 December 2013 10: 58
      +9
      Quote: 311ove
      Inside Grundig or Philips of the beginning of the 80's, practically our 3USCT .... But they took a step forward, and we are no longer ...

      The last truly domestic TVs were the 4USCT, with domestic microcontrollers and non-volatile memory. By functionality, they were in no way inferior to the foreign counterparts of that time. All subsequent ones, alas, by and large, are screwdriver assemblies.
      1. Canep
        Canep 6 December 2013 11: 58
        +2
        Quote: Andrey KZ
        The last truly domestic TVs were 4USTST,
        This is the end of the 80s and the beginning of the 90s and then .... There were true 5USTC but they were no longer Unifiedand Stationary Color TVs because each plant has its own city.
      2. 311ove
        311ove 6 December 2013 12: 03
        +8
        I agree, but I was comparing exactly the "euro" of the early 80s .... And so I even liked our 3USCTs even more in terms of location, circuit solutions, as the manufacture of some elements (the same circuits and chokes immediately come to mind) laughing In microcircuits, too, the transition to "increased density" was almost ready, I'm not talking about the 133 and 155 series, they have already been produced ... But the enemy's skillful "marketing and vpenduring" and our "effective management" covered the whole industry ...
    3. Vovka levka
      Vovka levka 6 December 2013 12: 25
      0
      Quote: 311ove
      I don’t know about the hydroelectric power station, but how could it be a version, but the fact that our electronics, first of all the production of the element base was completely destroyed, for me it is absolutely certain! It began somewhere just in perestroika. If there was a lag, then the minimum - with respect to the TV, was expressed mainly in the design and material of the case. Inside Grundig or Philips of the beginning of the 80s, practically our 3STC .... But they took a step forward, and we are no longer ... recourse

      There was no electronics in the USSR! Almost the entire elemental base is imported analogues that have been copied.
      Our televisions are copies of the same Philips and Grundig, and the lag was about 5 years. And I must honestly say that the chosen copy option as for me was unsuccessful. The modular design chosen was due to the poor quality of the component base, and modular replacement simplified the repair. And it was necessary to repair constantly, at one time he personally earned quite a lot on this business. At least at work, I got many times less than repairing the so-called electronics in the evenings.
      And the electronics industry has died due to the high cost and unreliability. As soon as the opportunity appeared to buy foreign, the consumer chose it.
      1. 311ove
        311ove 6 December 2013 13: 58
        +5
        Ah-ah-ah ..... Yes, the fact is, I also made good money on them, and very often I had to redo the vocational schools repeat But I’ll tell you a secret that when a consumer chose to import: Philips, Funai and many others. then I earned a lot more .... about somewhere until 2003 repeat Then, honestly gave up this occupation, "I found where cabbage soup is thicker and pearls are larger" hi Yes, I’ll add: there was a lag, I wrote about it, but the electronics was ITS... And who "tore" from whom, there is a dispute without a subject, purely for the sake of a dispute
        1. Vovka levka
          Vovka levka 6 December 2013 15: 31
          0
          Quote: 311ove
          Ah-ah-ah ..... Yes, the fact is, I also made good money on them, and very often I had to redo the vocational schools repeat But I’ll tell you a secret that when a consumer chose to import: Philips, Funai and many others. then I earned a lot more .... about somewhere until 2003 repeat Then, honestly gave up this occupation, "I found where cabbage soup is thicker and pearls are larger" hi Yes, I’ll add: there was a lag, I wrote about it, but the electronics was ITS... And who "tore" from whom, there is a dispute without a subject, purely for the sake of a dispute

          And who are you in your specialty?
          In the university where he studied, from the flow of 200-240 people, about 20 people graduated from the university. The rest were eliminated and this was during the USSR. But these brandies about the electronics of the USSR, you tell the guys with a slingshot.
          1. 311ove
            311ove 6 December 2013 16: 16
            +4
            The diploma says "Radio engineer". In general, I don’t consider our entire course of graduates to be "lights", but I am a fool either .... About your opinion that everything is "drained" to me, everything is clear to me, just explain what you can do in a diode, a transistor, a logic microcircuit, by the way, let's remember about LEDs ... I'm trying to say, yes, they lagged behind in many ways, but they did OWN. Yes, and now there is very little of course, but they are creating something like a radar station, for example, and I think air defense is still doing without iPhones. So, something like this .. By the way, and you are an expert in what industry? hi
            1. Vovka levka
              Vovka levka 6 December 2013 16: 59
              +1
              Quote: 311ove
              The diploma says "Radio engineer". In general, I don’t consider our entire course of graduates to be "lights", but I am a fool either .... About your opinion that everything is "drained" to me, everything is clear to me, just explain what you can do in a diode, a transistor, a logic microcircuit, by the way, let's remember about LEDs ... I'm trying to say, yes, they lagged behind in many ways, but they did OWN. Yes, and now there is very little of course, but they are creating something like a radar station, for example, and I think air defense is still doing without iPhones. So, something like this .. By the way, and you are an expert in what industry? hi

              Slightly different orientation from your + definition.
              No one argues what they did. They did it, the technology was limping with might and main, that they could select it. But we never were ahead in the overall standings. In some segments, there were good developments, but as a rule, this all ended.
              If I offended you, I apologize. I just don't like ur patriotism. If we worked as a trend, we would not have a price.
              1. 311ove
                311ove 6 December 2013 20: 10
                +3
                Yes, you did not offend me. I’m just a realist rather (well, I think so myself) ... I’m certainly a patriot, but not ... and I have imported cars and TVs too, but they don’t have candles and I’m not looking at them wassat ... By the way, in the village of the father-in-law in the attic, b / w is still spring Spring, though it is already with PTK-11Д laughing But grandfather swears that she worked in the summer, like he checked it - once I myself collected it from different things for the summer cottage. And so it seemed to me about your "admiration" for the "labels" ... I'm glad that they understood each other hi And my specialization was of course ... rather a practitioner ... but it wasn’t accepted to write it in a diploma drinks
                1. Vovka levka
                  Vovka levka 6 December 2013 21: 14
                  +2
                  drinks
                  You need to look at things realistically and not fly in the clouds. That’s my moral. I just saw what disconnection from realities leads to.
                  1. 311ove
                    311ove 6 December 2013 21: 45
                    0
                    By the way, somehow I observe that those who work do not trend, there is no time to see ... And those who trend and manage, then they have never worked .... This is an addition to the previous comment.
      2. badabing
        badabing 6 December 2013 20: 47
        0
        http://malchish.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=390&Itemid=33
        Everything was in the USSR!
  2. Volkhov
    Volkhov 6 December 2013 08: 07
    -19 qualifying.
    At the school’s hydroelectric station, the Chechens used a RKG-3 grenade with a timer, which they themselves reported. The cumulative jet caused the windings to close and the generator took off - very beautiful physics and no computer science.
    1. Volkhov
      Volkhov 6 December 2013 08: 14
      +4
      Achinea about resonance - a consequence of the exam. All generators from the network are synchronous and the frequency is changed simultaneously in the entire industrial area, depending on the load. No Internet can slow down and accelerate Gigawatt power.
      1. Zabvo
        Zabvo 6 December 2013 09: 03
        +6
        Let me remind you that already in the early 90s a "virus" was invented capable of affecting the mechanical parts of a PC, it could "overclock" the processor to the limit so that it simply burned (if the memory does not change, then the processors were I-486) Technique and brains now allow you to disable any mechanism, if it is, of course, connected to the Internet.
        1. shpuntik
          shpuntik 6 December 2013 13: 54
          +3
          ZABVO SU Today, 09:03 ↑
          Let me remind you that already in the early 90s a "virus" was invented capable of affecting the mechanical parts of a PC, it could "overclock" the processor to the limit like this ...

          The processor is a little different. Resonance can destroy, it is a fact. It can destroy electric sound, but it is only an explosion that can break off all fastening studs instantly. Even an air bubble causing a water hammer is hardly capable of this. Yes, and where does he come from?
          PS I’m not even talking about sensors, about watch-walking around premises, the spacing will be immediately noticeable.
        2. Pon69
          Pon69 7 December 2013 00: 11
          +2
          not the processor was overclocked, but the hard drive. A command was given to increase the revolutions of the plates and the chaotic movement of the read head. When touching the head and plate, physical destruction of these occurred. And in the processor there is nothing to collapse - this is a stone, if you do not name the system unit as the processor.
          1. nov_tech.vrn
            nov_tech.vrn 12 December 2013 13: 21
            0
            I remember it even in "quarantine" for a long time, constant requests and in the end either the heads touched the drives, or something else, somehow opened the hard drive, saw an obvious scratch.
      2. atalef
        atalef 6 December 2013 09: 12
        12
        Volkhov Today, 08:14 ↑ New
        Achinea about resonance - a consequence of the exam. All generators from the network are synchronous and the frequency is changed simultaneously in the entire industrial area, depending on the load. No Internet can slow down and accelerate Gigawatt power.

        Yes, the author can of course be a physicist and a programmer, but certainly not a power engineer, it is not realistic to accelerate a separate generator in an electrical system (synchronized), with an increase in the number of revolutions (theoretically) and the continued operation of this generator, the voltage it generates and does not coincide in phase shift with the system - it will immediately cause (like minmum) k, z on the tires of the exit vehicle and instantly shut off in the switchgear (this is understandable if the virus type somehow blocks the mechanic and continues to supply water to the turbine blades). Kotoche about Shushenskaya hydroelectric power station is nonsense, but in general cyber weapons definitely exist and there is no secret
        1. 528Obrp
          528Obrp 6 December 2013 13: 09
          +6
          Quote: atalef
          when increasing the number of revolutions (t

          - The frequency is increasing - the protection system is triggered
          Quote: atalef
          phase shift with system

          - the system is not synchronous - protection is triggered
          - Vibration grows - protection works
          The protection system (RPA, PAZ, etc.) is separate and independent. In principle, no virus can affect it (for example, a fuse or an overcurrent relay). There are intelligent protection systems for example in switchgears, substations, protection of transformers, motors - for example Sepam, but these are "second level" protection
          The operation of these protections will lead to an emergency stop, but not to disaster.

          Quote: atalef
          Kotoche about Shushenskaya hydroelectric power station is nonsense, but in general cyber weapons definitely exist and there is no secret

          I absolutely agree.
      3. andranick
        andranick 6 December 2013 09: 51
        +5
        Nonsense about the dependence of the network frequency on the load you carry, dear. And do not forget about the possibility of modulating the load on the shaft by periodically increasing / decreasing the power given by the generator, there is no question of gigawatts. Modulation is possible, because the resonance frequency is lower than the network frequency.
        1. 528Obrp
          528Obrp 6 December 2013 14: 07
          +2
          Quote: andranick
          carry network frequencies from the load

          frequency is stable + - 0.5Hz (so in my opinion) frequency up or down - emergency

        2. atalef
          atalef 6 December 2013 14: 43
          +1
          Quote: andranick
          Nonsense about the dependence of the network frequency on the load you carry
          Interestingly, how does the frequency change when the load exceeds the generator power?

          Quote: andranick
          And do not forget about the possibility of modulating the load on the shaft by periodically increasing / decreasing the power given by the generator

          And? You want to say that the speed of this changes?

          Quote: andranick
          Modulation is possible, because the resonance frequency is lower than the network frequency.

          you want to say . that the generator can spin and therefore produce voltages below the mains frequency?
          You, sorry full zero in the energy sector.
          1. 528Obrp
            528Obrp 6 December 2013 15: 12
            +3
            Quote: atalef
            interestingly, how does the frequency change when the load exceeds the generator power?

            Not like that. Protection will work if there is no reserve power.



            Quote: atalef
            Quote: andranick
            And do not forget about the possibility of modulating the load on the shaft by periodically increasing / decreasing the power given by the generator
            And? You want to say that the speed of this changes?

            The speed does not change. If the generator is running in the system, excess or lack of power is compensated by overflows

            Quote: atalef
            you want to say . that the generator can spin and therefore produce voltages below the mains frequency?
            You, excuse me with a complete zero in the energy sector.


            The situation when the generator produces a voltage with a frequency below the network it operates on is IMPOSSIBLE. This is a short circuit! Therefore, the generator protection system will work
            1. atalef
              atalef 6 December 2013 17: 54
              +3
              Quote: 528Obrp
              Not like that. Protection will work if there is no reserve power

              In general, we are not talking about protection. excess of power leads to a loss of speed (revolutions) and, as a consequence, a drop in the frequency of the generated voltage


              Quote: 528Obrp
              The speed does not change. If the generator is running in the system, excess or lack of power is compensated by overflows

              here I am about that. and someone is trying to prove. that the momentum will change

              Quote: 528Obrp
              The situation when the generator produces a voltage with a frequency below the network it operates on is IMPOSSIBLE. It's short

              good hi
    2. Eugeniy_369
      Eugeniy_369 6 December 2013 08: 59
      12
      Quote: Volkhov
      At the school’s hydroelectric station, the Chechens used a RKG-3 grenade with a timer, which they themselves reported. The cumulative jet caused the windings to close and the generator took off - very beautiful physics and no computer science.

      The version is interesting. I think our "effective managers" squeezed all the juices from the hydroelectric power station (the price of kilowatts from the hydroelectric power station is the lowest, the water is free laughing ), and here, by the way, the repair was entrusted to the office of a station close to the management (guess who signs the acceptance certificates wink ...
      In short, I don’t know about Iran, viruses and terrorists, but the fact that corruption, theft and banal gouging ... killed 75 people and brought a huge loss to the state, I have no doubt.
      PS It's interesting about viruses, just don't shield someone with the help of them. Yes, and it is not worth casting a shadow on the "K" department of the FSB and their consultant Kaspersky bully .
      1. atalef
        atalef 6 December 2013 09: 17
        +2
        In short, I don’t know about Iran, viruses and terrorists, but the fact that corruption, theft and banal gouging ... killed 75 people and brought a huge loss to the state, I have no doubt.

        But this is closer to the body - as Maupassant said,
        Therefore, dear author, your theory of a high-tech conspiracy on Shushenskaya is likely to be smashed into the harsh reality of undeveloped embezzlers who donate money without using an advanced banking system - but in ordinary envelopes, do not look for a black cat in a dark room if there is a large white scribe on the threshold laughing
        1. IS-80
          IS-80 6 December 2013 10: 07
          +9
          Quote: atalef
          Therefore, dear author, your theory of a high-tech conspiracy on Shushenskaya is likely to be smashed into the harsh reality of undeveloped embezzlers


          Cyberkaznokrad you will avenge your words. Having synchronized the coffee maker with the microwave through the network, they will pour hot coffee over you and fire at the grilled chicken sandwiches. laughing
          1. atalef
            atalef 6 December 2013 17: 58
            +1
            Quote: IS-80
            they will pour hot coffee on you and shell grilled chicken sandwiches.

            I will let out a lattice from viruses and I will redistribute all buters. wassat
        2. Eugeniy_369
          Eugeniy_369 7 December 2013 00: 57
          0
          Quote: atalef
          But this is closer to the body - as Maupassant said,

          I would say "Ilf and Petrov" wink maybe The great Leonid Gaidai....
      2. HollyGremlin
        HollyGremlin 6 December 2013 09: 48
        +6
        Exactly, it’s like with missiles: as soon as our satellites fly, the missiles fall, and as foreign ones everything is in normal mode - it’s amazing. Here they are real terrorists and animals: first they stole money, and then, to cover up tracks, blow up weapons stores, drop missiles, and write off everything to Vasya from the repair shop and do not take into account the victims and losses for the country.
        1. Volkhov
          Volkhov 6 December 2013 18: 32
          +1
          So abroad, there is another principle for selecting leaders for outer space - they are interested in science, in particular geophysics and its changes in recent years. And it’s useless even for Russian Federation to report ready conclusions - they will continue to send missiles as infantry to machine guns - maybe someone will run. The West is better to cancel the launch several times before a favorable moment than lose the satellite.
          Here is the last supposedly launched Proton with an increasing skirt of the discharge glow about a minute before the explosion.
  3. smart ass
    smart ass 6 December 2013 08: 09
    0
    It could even be
  4. saag
    saag 6 December 2013 08: 10
    +6
    Incredibly, high-risk equipment has direct Internet access.
    1. Ptah
      Ptah 6 December 2013 08: 22
      +3
      Quote: saag
      Incredibly, high-risk equipment has direct Internet access.

      And I immediately thought of the same thing. No, not only protection, but even elementary measures of "computer hygiene".
      The company where I work has its own internal network, although there is no interest for specials. The company does not represent services. (It seems to me)
      And then, the terms of the contract, it is strictly forbidden to rummage through all sorts of social networks and dubious sites from a working computer. Under threat of instant dismissal with subsequent fines.
      And here are the objects of strategic importance. Truly gouging.
      Or basic ignorance of the comp. technology, or paid diversion. In any case, those admins - a filthy broom from a position ....
      1. Krasnoarmeec
        Krasnoarmeec 6 December 2013 15: 40
        0
        Incredibly, high-risk equipment has direct Internet access.


        About the Internet like the author did not mention request yes, okay "Shusha", but so that in the Iranian nuclear program, at least someone does not have access to the Internet belay !?!?!?! I think they will be fired without any allowance "for livelihoods" bully

        If it’s a virus, then only with personal introduction ... so the cyber weapon is not perfect, again currents, if you rely on this article. hi
  5. bomg.77
    bomg.77 6 December 2013 08: 16
    +1
    You want to say that the Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric power station was tested cyber weapons before combat use in Iran?
    1. Ptah
      Ptah 6 December 2013 08: 35
      +6
      Quote: bomg.77
      You want to say that cyber weapons were tested at the Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric station

      Maybe it's too loud to call it "weapon", but "CYBERPACK" is absolutely accurate. And the point here is not what such a "couple of kilobyte prog" can do with the remotely executed code at the right time, but the vulnerability of the equipment from external intrusion.
      Any city water utility during the summer heat or CHP during winter frosts, as well as more serious objects, can easily get into the list of "SSH HPPs".
      You will be surprised, knowledgeable, how easy it is to view your computer screw for "anti-fresh photos". With some knowledge of the converged factors and your safety, of course.
  6. hohryakov066
    hohryakov066 6 December 2013 08: 25
    +5
    Very similar to the truth. The official version of the accident, although it does not directly indicate the use of the virus, does not contradict this scenario. I myself have to do with the use of just uranium centrifuges.
    1. Samy
      Samy 6 December 2013 12: 28
      0
      Very unlike the truth. Especially on boats braided to the end, where "horses and people are mingled in a heap", ie. the accident on Nerpa was transferred to India for some reason. This has nothing to do with it, which casts doubt on the previous conclusions. And the Iranians at all, bring the control of centrifuges to the Internet?
  7. Su-9
    Su-9 6 December 2013 08: 35
    +3
    Well, since the author so asks to heed with respect - respect.
    And you can learn more about "Fastwell PC-compatible microcomputer". I thought that Fastvel does everything on Intel (sometimes on AMD) - by stamping it into a shell developed by the Soviet defense industry in the 80s ... Isn't that so? And then they have a whole microcomputer!
    Then, and those people that are at the strategic facility in 2009 !!! year did not think about information security and could put an unprotected control unit on the Internet - or pests or spies. Somehow I can’t even believe that this can happen (even in Siberia ...). So any Misha-hacker could bang him. Stuxnet is not necessary.
    Or does the author suggest that the enemies loaded the insidious virus through the vile Bendera, who took the indicators?
    And so by the way - Stuxnet has been very well described and researched. In general, he worked against Siemens PS & S / S7. The author, as a "professional programmer and physicist by education," could have mentioned this. As far as I understand, there were no Siemens systems at the S-Sh HPP. Is not it?
    If you really want to write that a sabotage was organized at S-Sh HPP through "swinging the turbine" (which of course can be theoretically done), then you need to come up with a more plausible story without such inconsistencies. But I would, be a foe, if I rocked something with malicious intentions - that's not it.
    And so - the topic raised is certainly interesting and promising. Also as a "professional security specialist and military education" I say.
    1. Ptah
      Ptah 6 December 2013 08: 43
      +4
      Quote: Su-9
      But I would be an enemy, if I were swinging something with malicious intentions - that’s not it.

      And what do you, as a "potential enemy" and "brain-pumped bad guy" do not like "turbine swing"?
      From the point of view of saboteurs. There are many victims, and the economic damage is evident. It is difficult to trace where the "breeze came from".
      Can this be considered testing / debugging a specific program?
      It is possible that similar "rootkits" are already sitting on other objects.
      And also new ones are created.
      Opinion among kopm. pros one. Escalation in this area is only growing. And defense methods are always a bit late for attacks.
      1. Su-9
        Su-9 6 December 2013 09: 18
        -1
        It is not possible to arouse sympathy with actions against civilians. And the buildup of a hydroelectric turbine is an action against the civilian population. Who benefits? The enemy couldn’t even push this to Putin.
        1. Ptah
          Ptah 6 December 2013 09: 54
          +2
          But I didn’t think about Putin.
          In my opinion, there could be a fact of the use of new malicious code. Tc "test in test mode".
          Unfortunately, I must admit - successful. And what to expect in the future. I really hope that we have learned not only in commerce around the station, but also in the comp. protection.
        2. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 6 December 2013 14: 37
          +1
          Quote: Su-9
          . And the buildup of a hydroelectric turbine is an action against the civilian population. To

          The US tested the atomic bomb in front of Hiroshima in Nevada. And the virus can be tested in another country. It is possible that we have experienced. And successfully, if you stick to the author’s version. hi
  8. lotar
    lotar 6 December 2013 08: 40
    +4
    The more time passes from the day of the disaster, the more versions appear with some degree of probability corresponding to reality. I would like to recommend the author of this article: If you want to be believed, you should not write in this way:
    I am a professional programmer and a physicist by training, so everything that is stated in this article is not speculation, I can do all this on my own, with my own little hands. Yes, and I have much more information on the topic than I can state on this information site that is not relevant to me.
    So if you object to the forum, think to whom you object.
    This is not “Weapon from the Pass”, where I look like an amateur, I'm a professional in this topic, so listen with respect

    This, unwittingly, causes distrust of the declared.
  9. Takashi
    Takashi 6 December 2013 09: 09
    +8
    1) The first words from the article that made me strain:
    "I am a professional programmer and physicist by education"

    oil, oily. Professional programmers at our university prepares a university for the special "Computing Systems" or "Applied Mathematics".
    It seems that the author is a bad physicist and a lousy programmer, of whom it’s just got divorced ... as "not cut dogs"

    2) "(called" beat frequency "among professionals)" - In a high school course, this effect is also called. In any case, 15 years ago he was in my physics textbook. :) :) :)

    3) The problem with Iran was the "trust" (by default), which is widespread in the world among the means of industrial automation. No one would think to check the CNC system of a machine that is supplied from abroad.
    The main thing - was that it is not clear for what reason - the automation system of an important industrial facility (nuclear) had access to the Internet. !!!

    5) at the Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric power station - problems with the 2nd power unit started when it was created, the first director of the hydroelectric power station wrote about them. Most likely, a turbine made and assembled incorrectly (with a marriage), which was undergoing repair for many years, and many years later, with the connivance of the management / carrying out falsified repairs \ collapse and theft - led to such sad results.
    1. IS-80
      IS-80 6 December 2013 09: 54
      +3
      Quote: Takashi
      Most likely, a turbine made and assembled incorrectly (with a marriage), which was undergoing repair for many years, and many years later, with the connivance of the management / carrying out falsified repairs \ collapse and theft - led to such sad results.


      The most reliable version. Effective managers and not that can drive.
      It remains to be hoped that in nuclear energy everything is much stricter.
    2. IGS
      IGS 6 December 2013 14: 06
      +6
      The main thing - was that it is not clear for what reason - the automation system of an important industrial facility (nuclear) had access to the Internet. !!!
      Alas, she didn't. The virus was spread all over the Internet, had a valid signature (certificate) by Realtek Semiconductor and JMicron Technology, replicated itself, and got to the speaker via removable media. If there was the Internet, it would be possible to twist things up abruptly, taking over complete control through remote access, and it would be easier to do everything without flashing malicious code and substituting. Too serious actions had to be taken before releasing him. The virus had no feedback, the decision to attack was "made" by itself, SCADA SIEMENS (a software package for production control and management) is quite widespread, and it could have done something wrong at "its" enterprises. I think I had to inform many people, at least partially. And the four previously unknown (to us) Windows vulnerabilities that he used are more likely a "backdoor" of Microsoft itself.
      As for the article ... I don’t know ... I was immediately alerted by this
      Stuxnet was the first computer virus to harm physical objects.

      Excuse me like that ... Stuxnet is essentially a more advanced Chernobyl. "Chernobyl" destroyed the BIOS firmware (it also rubbed the disks), after which the computer could not start, in fact the same as Stuxnet does, which changes the firmware of the S7-315 controllers through (PLC) Step 7.
      Who said that Stuxnet used a resonant frequency to destroy? He stupidly overclocked the centrifuges, and exceeded the speed limit, showing the operators that the speed is ok, why complicate it?
      so that it periodically changes the speed of the centrifuge shaft

      This, Mr. (comrade) scientist, "Stuxnet" definitely did not do.
      As for hes ... damn conspiracy theory. And the Ukrainians suddenly drew themselves, by the way.
      Naturally, they didn’t think of any Information Security then,

      It is a masterpiece...
      And even specialists, maybe I'm wrong, but according to the idea, vibration sensors should be on the turbine, and from experience knowing that if something, they would switch something on-off-turn off without any reference to the software, or even to electronics, but only to electrical engineering, a simple glass mercury breaker, for example, or am I wrong?
      But the topic itself is very serious, which arose not yesterday, and not the day before yesterday. And the problems in it are enough for us to solve the far-fetched ones. And here’s the video for the author, there are enough such programs on the network, for floppy and for hard (in fact they change the speed of moving parts) download and try using the resonance to disable some device. By the way, there seem to be no viruses that physically remove the hard drive, except for the sledgehammer, of course, because they have a strict speed limit, but they didn’t think about resonance ... go for it.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Mature naturalist
        Mature naturalist 6 December 2013 21: 32
        +2
        Here is a curious video
  10. Corporal
    Corporal 6 December 2013 09: 24
    +5
    I'm a professional in this thread, so listen with respect.


    Do such passages bother me alone?
    1. amicus
      amicus 6 December 2013 09: 44
      10
      Not only you! Just in case, I read the article while standing! laughing
    2. Grbear
      Grbear 6 December 2013 10: 10
      0
      no, not one. The only reliable fact is the bridge. The rest of the OGG (one citizen said).

      From the US everything is clear there. Another thing is that there is no "planting" or compensation to the state (people were chirped more or less) from the owners and participants in the destruction process. This is very important.
    3. WWSW
      WWSW 6 December 2013 12: 56
      +1
      When I read this phrase, I immediately remember the institute's tale: "When a person hangs a float on his jacket, he forgot everything he was taught." Does everyone remember what the float is?
  11. STALGRAD76
    STALGRAD76 6 December 2013 09: 45
    +2
    Wow, so that's what the bridge "danced" from in Volgograd, not like the intrigues of "cyber" spies recourse
  12. smart ass
    smart ass 6 December 2013 09: 54
    0
    Here's what my friend and data security specialist said about this article.

    Dr_Brown (11:06:00 6/12/2013)
    what about access to the Internet at hydroelectric power stations is doubtful ...

    Dr_Brown (11:06:32 6/12/2013)
    so what is the year 2009, who would coordinate such a scheme at such an object

    Норби (11:07:00 6/12/2013)
    Do you think there is *** protection?

    Dr_Brown (11:07:30 6/12/2013)
    yes *** even on Russian Railways computers are not directly connected to the Internet))

    Dr_Brown (11:07:46 6/12/2013)
    through a secure network and a bunch of proxies

    Dr_Brown (11:07:55 6/12/2013)
    and here at the hydroelectric power station ... xs xs ..

    Dr_Brown (11:09:00 6/12/2013)
    another thing is that the virus could well be dragged stupidly into the internal grid. and this is how to judge by the book of the great hacker one is not at all difficult, he could have learned a lot on the phone and did not need to break anyone))

    Dr_Brown (11:09:43 6/12/2013)
    we drag all threats into the net from the house on flash drives)

    Dr_Brown (11:10:01 6/12/2013)
    therefore, right now and there is a general ban on different carriers, sdromy, etc.
    1. Login_Off
      Login_Off 6 December 2013 10: 41
      +3
      As far as I know, Internet access is, of course, not direct, but there is. Control is carried out not only on site but also remotely. Let this network be protected, but how to get around this is another question.
      At the same gas pipelines and oil pipelines, along all the pipes are sensors, an optical cable that transfers data to the medical facilities (linear pumping unit), data is already duplicated from them and transferred to the center. Gate valves also all work in automatic mode (of course there is also manual).
      So, I think it’s quite possible to wedge into a knot and do a dirty trick.
      And those who say that there is no access to the Internet are right. You don’t look at sites, but the network is there, and in the end it is not small, and therefore the flash drive is not needed, you just need to find a hole.
  13. Wedmak
    Wedmak 6 December 2013 09: 59
    +1
    Let me doubt the conclusions of the author.
    Connecting computers directly controlling important and dangerous objects directly or through other devices to the Internet is prohibited. It is forbidden to transmit data to a third party about the work and parameters of strategic objects. It is also forbidden to transmit operating protocols and software management methods for such objects.
    If this was done, it is no longer a cyber war; it is a normal sabotage operation.
    The conclusion was that the virus made it, too, with a pitchfork written in water; the author of the virus hardly knew the protocols for exchanging the controller and executive devices. It was much easier to disable the hydraulic unit by stupidly changing the controller firmware. But this is also a diversion, because implies direct intervention by staff.
    US Cyber ​​Troops live only on the Internet. And focused only on espionage, mostly industrial. Troops use other forms of communication, moreover encrypted. No sensible commander will send an order via Email to relocate troops or other important maneuvers.
    1. I think so
      I think so 6 December 2013 23: 04
      +1
      Oh dear, you are our forbidden that much, but who observes this? And especially in modern Russia ...
      "US cyber troops live only on the Internet. And they are focused only on espionage."
      Do not make the audience laugh. To you, that these US cyber military are reporting what they are doing ...
  14. albatross
    albatross 6 December 2013 10: 03
    +1
    The destruction of the studs caused by dynamic loads led to the breakdown of the turbine cover and the depressurization of the water supply path of the hydraulic unit.

    Interesting version, but has soil. If there was a long resonance, then the studs could not burst at the same time. During the tour it would be noticed. Moreover, constant work with vibration, no one will risk it. Only hydroblow can raise such a mass. Where does the air come from in the flow with backwater. He is not there. Therefore, water hammer is possible only in case of explosion. Or a supply of compressed air, a balloon explosion - which is unlikely. A small explosive pack with neutral buoyancy, brought by the flow of water into the turbine impeller, and a corresponding fuse. This is a diversion, definitely.
    1. shpuntik
      shpuntik 6 December 2013 14: 05
      +2
      [Quote] albatross RU Today, 10:03 AM
      This is a diversion, definitely.
      [/ quote]
      I agree +
      The virus can turn off the equipment, disrupt the work, but people on the watch should have time to react, suspect something was wrong. And the event happened instantly. Here is an interesting video:
  15. pike79
    pike79 6 December 2013 10: 11
    +7
    R_T_T do not write about what you do not understand. Fantasies not related to reality and so on the net above the roof. For the main mistakes:
    1) Control system for hydraulic units of the Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric station
    Designed, installed and maintained by RAKURS http://www.rakurs.com/. As well as a vibration monitoring system. For this, Shoigu was still trying to get to the bottom of it, but as it turned out there was nothing to the point - the SU worked until it was completely destroyed and managed to save several generators by disconnecting them from the load before flooding.
    2) The control system at the Sayano-Shushenskaya HPP was built on the basis of the CS1D programmable controllers from OMRON (Japan). The controllers are never PC compatible and are pretty "oak", their architecture is different than that of the simatic, for which Stuxnet was written. After the accident, they did not write about this (with varying degrees of understanding) only those who were very far from the automated process control system.
    3) Fastwell could be there only as a collection of secondary signals (of which there is darkness). Although usually RACURS (integrator) puts modules for collecting secondary signals "of their own" production.
    4) It is easy to find on the Internet that the turbine has almost exhausted its resource and for 1,5 years there has been an attempt to extend its resource (very controversial from the point of view of materials science) methods, but nature has taken its toll - aging metals (as a result of alternating loads) cannot be reversed succeeds.
    1. GHG
      GHG 6 December 2013 10: 43
      +2
      After the SSHHPP was put into continuous operation (2000), the station management terminated its contractual relations with JSC Lengidroproekt as a general designer. Work on the reconstruction and modernization of equipment and facilities began to be carried out by the Directorate of SSHHPP with the involvement of subcontracting organizations, including NPF Rakurs, ECRO and Promavtomatika. Some employees associated with labor relations with Lengidroproekt began to privately collaborate with NPF Rakurs, the winner of the tender for the development of industrial control systems for SShHPPs. In the period 2005-2007 individual employees of the institute committed violations of the procedure for conducting correspondence, unauthorized use of the title pages of the institute and reused archival inventory numbers of documentation for the development of which the Lenhydroproekt Institute did not conclude contracts and did not develop design decisions.
      In 2006-2008 active powers, group control of voltage and reactive power were put into trial operation, and then into the industrial subsystem of group regulation, but the algorithm for influencing the hydraulic unit with these subsystems was not coordinated with the manufacturer of hydraulic turbines - Power Machines OJSC.
      NPF Rakurs at the SShHPP hydraulic units installed vibration sensors manufactured by the Canadian company Vibrosystem. The sensor system performs an informational task for operating personnel; it does not have a spectral vibration analysis unit and a quick buffer memory for storing vibration parameters during abnormal operating conditions.
      The vibration monitoring system installed at GA-2 in 2009 was practically not used by the operational personnel and the station management to analyze the vibration state and make management decisions.
      .
      1. pike79
        pike79 6 December 2013 15: 13
        0
        An article on the modernization of the Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric station before the accident, signed by Rakurs:
        http://www.remmag.ru/admin/upload_data/remmag/09-1/Rakurs.pdf
        News after the accident:
        http://www.rakurs.com/press/news/detail.php?ID=1537
        "24.02.2010
        Today the Prime Minister of Russia V.V. Putin from the central control panel of the Sayano-Shushenskaya HPP turned on the hydraulic unit number 6 under industrial load. The fully updated automated control and protection systems have been installed and adjusted on the launched unit. Some of these systems were developed, supplied and adjusted by the specialists of Rakurs NPF LLC.
        ..."
      2. pike79
        pike79 6 December 2013 15: 13
        0
        An article on the modernization of the Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric station before the accident, signed by Rakurs:
        http://www.remmag.ru/admin/upload_data/remmag/09-1/Rakurs.pdf
        News after the accident:
        http://www.rakurs.com/press/news/detail.php?ID=1537
        "24.02.2010
        Today the Prime Minister of Russia V.V. Putin from the central control panel of the Sayano-Shushenskaya HPP turned on the hydraulic unit number 6 under industrial load. The fully updated automated control and protection systems have been installed and adjusted on the launched unit. Some of these systems were developed, supplied and adjusted by the specialists of Rakurs NPF LLC.
        ..."
        1. I think so
          I think so 6 December 2013 23: 20
          0
          Dear pike79 You are wrong.
          The "oakiness" of the controllers used in the lower levels of the system's control does not provide any reliability if the upper levels of the control system are subject to malicious modification. The author of the article says that the hydroelectric power station collapsed due to the fact that the TOP level of the control system for a CONSTANTLY LONG TIME forced the unit to operate in an UNACCEPTABLE frequency mode, which led to its destruction. And here you are talking nonsense about the "oakiness" (reliability in your opinion) of some controllers, they say they cannot be reprogrammed. So they do not need to be reprogrammed, and so, with their correct operation, they WILL ENSURE THE DESTRUCTION of the turbine, if this turbine is forced to constantly work at the frequency of its resonances ... Dear would not disgrace with such comments ...
          1. pike79
            pike79 7 December 2013 10: 36
            +1
            Inadmissible modes are blocked at the controller program level, as the controller in the control system is also a basic element of ensuring the safety of the installation.
            The author bears nonsense - the upper level to drive the system in dangerous modes so that the operators do not notice and do not chop off the crazy AWP is not possible, especially since the control mode without a PC is provided. Stuxnet did not just spoil SCADA, but replaced the FB loaded into the controller in order to ensure the execution of the zazache. "Oak" - just means that it will not work with those controllers.
            Separately, about the resonance - after the accident, the data from the vibration monitoring system got into the network, there was no resonance on them, for that changes characteristic of the "gradual" physical destruction of the analyzed object were visible.
            And in general, workstations on PCs have been doing for a long time, viruses not targeting PCs are also an old trouble. And the PC is not a very reliable element. Therefore, a lot of methods have been developed to secure the control system. Now the problem is more in new non-core "programmers" who know what is best, "drive in the opposite direction" and teach others.
            PS About "being ashamed": how many control systems for industrial facilities or installations have you designed, launched and serviced?
  16. shurup
    shurup 6 December 2013 10: 16
    +1
    A professional programmer and physicist by education writes a little differently, including on "non-core sites".
    But an unprofessional journalist - a blogger who pretends to be a secret agent with long arms, writes just that.
    When submitting a version, please, provide links to "specialized sites", because I and many of those present here are non-professional programmers, but not sensitive housewives.
  17. AlexA
    AlexA 6 December 2013 10: 25
    10
    Quote: albatross
    If there was a long resonance, then the studs could not burst at the same time.

    Yes, just could. Even in the frames shown on TV, it was seen that the fracture pattern of the studs is typically fatigue - with a flat granular section of the fracture, without a characteristic "yield neck". Such a kink appears when the number of loading cycles exceeds the fatigue threshold. This number of cycles is easy to calculate. The formula is given in any textbook on resistance materials. The prerequisite for such an accident is also eliminated according to the textbook: you just need to change the attachment points when the estimated number of cycles is exceeded for any - at first glance, even completely serviceable - attachment points. And in the accident report, it was directly established that the established repairs were not carried out. For such a unit, it is really very expensive. That's the whole reason - uterine greed. Another question: such an expensive renovation certainly belongs to the concept of "major deal". The director's decision is not enough for him. The approval of the board of directors, that is, representatives of the owners, is required. In other words: the owners COULD NOT KNOW that the necessary repairs were not being carried out. And we WERE OBLIGED by the Civil Code to approve it. This means that they must be prosecuted. But not attracted. But this is already a political question. And a signal to all owners: save money. You won't get anything. So, in particular, "Tatarstan" saved on training pilots. Sadly, however.
    1. Mature naturalist
      Mature naturalist 6 December 2013 21: 37
      0
      Quote: AlexA
      So, in particular, "Tatarstan" saved on training pilots.

      Rumor has it that one of the passengers was allowed to fly, although in this case the pilots are to blame.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  18. JonnyT
    JonnyT 6 December 2013 10: 26
    +2
    At all prom. the control networks are localized and do not have access to the Internet ..... but sometimes local programmers open the gateways to be able to work remotely, stupidly stretch a twisted pair from the cabinet with the controller to their working computer, on which there is an Internet ... then an attack is possible ..... another question ..... when entering critical operating modes in any system, wired automation should work ...... in bourgeois automated systems, automation parameters can be adjusted, the programmer can set m the maximum number of revolutions, speed, etc. .. And yet, this virus could just change the parameters of the turbine .... that is, the turbine started to work in peak mode, the same virus could not send a signal to the operator’s console about the real characteristics of the work .. .. since it was old then it started to fall apart so personally I don’t exclude the possibility of an attack on the hydroelectric power station
  19. AlexA
    AlexA 6 December 2013 10: 35
    +1
    Quote: Wedmak
    Let me doubt the conclusions of the author. Connecting computers directly controlling important and dangerous objects directly or through other devices to the Internet is prohibited. It is forbidden to transmit data to a third party about the work and parameters of strategic objects. It is also forbidden to transmit operating protocols and software management methods for such objects.

    You are absolutely right. This should not be the case in decent important sites. But "effective managers" are deeply into the light bulb. And the "specialists" hired by these managers can do anything.
    Quote: JonnyT
    ..... but sometimes local programmers open the gateways to be able to work remotely, stupidly stretch a twisted pair from the cabinet with the controller to their working computer, on which there is an Internet ... then then an attack is possible ....

    And here is the confirmation. Respect.
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 6 December 2013 12: 08
      0
      And here is the confirmation. Respect.

      Even then, an attack is unlikely. Not only does the virus need to penetrate the system of the attacked machine, it also needs to penetrate the process that controls the hydraulic unit controller (I don’t know how it controls it and how it is controlled (from where, under which OS, etc.), but the author said what is there! what ), issue commands to the controller. And I strongly doubt something in the absence of duplicating and control devices in the development of such commands.
      1. I think so
        I think so 6 December 2013 23: 37
        0
        Dear Wedmak. The virus does not need to know how the hydraulic unit is controlled. He does not need to reprogram the controller. The accident occurred due to the CONSTANT and FREQUENT use of a hydraulic unit in modes with an unacceptable speed, which coincided with the resonant frequencies of the hydraulic unit. And this is elementary to do without touching any controllers on the hydraulic unit. It is enough to change the EXTERNAL load on the hydraulic unit in an appropriate way, either increasing it or decreasing it. In principle, this can be done by changes in the control system of the top-level station (and it most likely was connected to the Internet for sure) or by connecting and disconnecting external LARGE loads (well, such as an entire aluminum plant) in a certain order. After an increase in the external load, the station control system begins to spin turbines, and when they are unwound, they ALWAYS go through resonant frequencies. So slowly and slowly the station will come, unless of course its control system is done poorly. And we made sure that the station control system was poorly made - it (the station) collapsed ...
    2. smart ass
      smart ass 6 December 2013 13: 13
      +1
      Eeeee manager please do not touch
  20. Stas57
    Stas57 6 December 2013 11: 12
    +2
    but! So did the enemy virus kill people in the Sayano-Shushenskaya station?
    but I thought something sloppiness, theft and negligence of the so-called Managers and in Russian grabbers.
    offset excuse, author respect, managers jump from happiness, the virus is to blame and not they
  21. iConst
    iConst 6 December 2013 11: 23
    0
    I myself am susceptible (sometimes) to attacks of a "universal conspiracy", but here it is somehow dumb ... laughing
  22. RussianRu
    RussianRu 6 December 2013 12: 02
    +1
    At first, the introduction cut. Then, after reading the article, I wondered if the author was Kaspersky. If so, then great respect for him. For his work on creating an antivirus. And the article, in principle, cannot exclude anything.
  23. Turkestan
    Turkestan 6 December 2013 12: 14
    +1
    [quote = Canep] [quote = 311ove] But they took a step forward, but we are no longer ... [/ quote]
    Now you need to take 5-6 steps forward, or buy modern technology.

    And where is the guarantee that when purchasing a new technology some kind of BYAK is not laid
  24. lexat7
    lexat7 6 December 2013 12: 46
    10
    Dear author, "a professional programmer and a physicist by education," I will answer you as a "professional power engineer and power engineer by education" ... In my opinion, in this tragedy, at one of the most beautiful hydroelectric power plants in the world, the plant's management and the so-called "effective managers" are to blame, who for the sake of a "mythical" profit are ready to ditch both the personnel and the station. These, so to speak, "experts in all areas of the national economy" are like locusts for energy, today - we need more and more profit, and tomorrow, even if the flood, it did not take long. Bright memory to colleagues.
    1. Locksmith
      Locksmith 6 December 2013 14: 40
      0
      In the first days after the accident, there was a version on the Internet that repaired the upper support using welding, without stopping the unit, and there, in the unit, the cooling quality shrank and turned the upper support. sad
  25. Nexus 6
    Nexus 6 6 December 2013 13: 10
    +2
    The author is a professional conspiracy theorist laughing But! The conspiracy theorist is not a "caveman". The article, like "Weapons from the Pass", is, to put it mildly, controversial, but intriguing after all. What is this, "thin" trolling?) It is informative to read the comments of experts on such materials. +
  26. WWSW
    WWSW 6 December 2013 13: 13
    0
    Turn on the logic. If so, then who would prevent these cyber-attackers from walking through all the hydroelectric power stations in our country, especially since no one knew anything at that time. No, they had to exert a lot of efforts (probably) to search for one, not the most modern (and you can say the old) power plant.
    1. I think so
      I think so 6 December 2013 23: 48
      0
      Your doubts can be answered simply ... They tried it and HURRY IT WORKED! And now ... WHEN IT IS NECESSARY to "walk through all the hydroelectric power plants in our country" they will do it ... Is this argument convincing? The same can be said about the lead boat "Kursk". They drowned ... they tried ... it turned out ... the Russians didn't even suspect ANYTHING (thanks to the country's leadership), and now WHEN IT'S NECESSARY about all the submarines of these idiots, their president will say - "... she drowned ...".
  27. ovokasi08
    ovokasi08 6 December 2013 13: 23
    0
    We say that this is not possible, then why did the Iranians recognize this ???
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 6 December 2013 14: 48
      +1
      Quote: ovokasi08
      We say that this is not possible, then why did the Iranians recognize this ???

      To write off the centrifuge accidents on the machinations of Israel and YSA. Thus, "nourish" the image of the enemy, rally supporters in the face of an external threat.
      1. I think so
        I think so 6 December 2013 23: 58
        0
        Doesn't it seem to you, dear one, that it is stupid to "feed" the enemy's image by destroying your equipment, killing your nuclear engineers, and wasting your money on repairs senselessly? It is much cheaper to "feed" the image of the enemy by showing simple things on TV (especially since you don't need to invent anything, all of this IS ALREADY):
        1. How Israeli aircraft bombed the cities of Syria, Palestine.
        2. How pi.dosovskie drones kill civilians in Pakistan.
        3. As Pi.ndosovsky soldiers kill peaceful Iraqis, Afghans (and they have nothing for it).
        and so on an ENDLESS amount of BARBARRY from the "civilized" and "democratic" countries ... And you are such nonsense to us here ...
  28. Penek
    Penek 6 December 2013 13: 56
    0
    Quote: JonnyT
    At all prom. the control networks are localized and do not have access to the Internet ..... but sometimes local programmers open the gateways to be able to work remotely, stupidly stretch a twisted pair from the cabinet with the controller to their working computer, on which there is an Internet ... then an attack is possible ..... another question ..... when entering critical operating modes in any system, wired automation should work ...... in bourgeois automated systems, automation parameters can be adjusted, the programmer can set m the maximum number of revolutions, speed, etc. .. And yet, this virus could just change the parameters of the turbine .... that is, the turbine started to work in peak mode, the same virus could not send a signal to the operator’s console about the real characteristics of the work .. .. since it was old then it started to fall apart so personally I don’t exclude the possibility of an attack on the hydroelectric power station

    Most likely, a combination of gouging (vibration, yes with it) and the imperfection of the automation of protection. With the current multi-level automated control systems, the option of access via the Internet is quite possible. Why drive programmers from St. Petersburg when all the parameters are already visible through the network. It remains only to find specialists, for example from Caucus, a simple PC-PLC engineer can handle the rest.
  29. SOUTH,
    SOUTH, 6 December 2013 14: 21
    0
    I don’t think that under normal continuous load of the secondary school, the generators are controlled in manual mode, this requires constant staff voltage. On the contrary, all regular modes are automated. One of the causes of the accident was just work in emergency mode, which is unusual for a high-pressure hydroelectric power station, it was manual control that was used to adjust the power due to the lack of communication between the system dispatchers and the dispatchers of the Bratsk hydroelectric power station, the Generator which broke down, stopped several times and started while passing through revolutions (modes) dangerous for it. Unambiguously, such a breakdown was primarily caused by the lack of proper repair and replacement of parts that had exhausted their service life.
    The main argument in the article does not correspond to the truth - this is the control of the automation of the unit’s speed in an emergency mode. Previously, at the DWG.RU forum where designers communicate, there was a serious debate about the accident. I even copied all the pages from the forum myself. But later deleted, and on the forum for some reason they were deleted. It’s a pity, now it would be possible to raise everything and push the author where it should be. So he painted himself, and so he is.
    1. postman
      postman 6 December 2013 17: 27
      +2
      Quote: SOUTH,
      that with the regular mode of constant load of the secondary school of hydroelectric power plants, the generators are controlled in manual mode, this requires constant voltage from the personnel.

      why only in "regular"?
      Transient Monitoring System (SMPR) for RAO "UES of Russia" facilities based on specialized recorders (RPP) / PowerLog PL132 manufactured by Aenea (Germany) or analogs /

      The collection server is built on the basis of an industrial personal computer of the PxV406 type from Kontron (Germany) and operates under the operating system Windows XP, as well as specialized application software developed by RTSoft CJSC.

      The collection server provides continuous data collection from all MIP-01, which are part of the system, with a period of 20 ms. Data recording by the collection server to the archive is provided according to the following criteria:

      - Exceeding the frequency change (decreasing or increasing the frequency) in excess of the setting equal to 0,005-2 Hz / s in increments of 0,005 Hz;
      - Lowering the effective value of any of the phase voltages below the setting selected from the range 0-120%;


      During the first half of 2006, 20 Smart-WAMS recorders were installed at several large facilities of the UES of Russia, including: Sayano-Shushenskaya HPP, Kharanorskaya GRES, Troitskaya GRES, Ryazanskaya GRES, PS Leningradskaya, PS Yuzhnaya, etc.
      1. SOUTH,
        SOUTH, 6 December 2013 23: 45
        0
        Of course, I’m far from special and I don’t know the whole situation.
        Quote: R_T_T
        Manual control for constant power output has been disabled.
        is he lying or not? Where did he get this manual control. And he didn’t seem to call you the named system. Lying? If such a system exists
        Quote: Postman
        provides continuous data collection from all MIP-01 included in the system
        Then these collected data could confirm the actions of automation that led the units to resonance. Surely these data are researchers.
        1. postman
          postman 7 December 2013 01: 28
          +1
          Quote: SOUTH,
          Lying?

          Yes
          Quote: SOUTH,
          Surely these data are researchers.

          clear stump
  30. Technologist
    Technologist 6 December 2013 15: 33
    +1
    I think it’s a completely wealthy version.
  31. Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 6 December 2013 15: 40
    +7
    Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric power station
    "Vague doubts torment me ..." (c)
    1. SSH HPP is a strategic object, both in terms of functionality and consequences of destruction. It is under the control of Rostekhnadzor. The virus is a virus, but those. safety has not been canceled! Therefore, I propose to take a look at the Act of the RTN commission following the results of the investigation of the technical DISASTER with human casualties. Who is to blame and what to do?
    "At the time of the accident, the power of the station was 4100 MW, 9 hydroelectric units were in operation, automatic protections on most of which did not work. All hydraulic units of the station received damage of varying severity; the most powerful, up to complete destruction, are hydraulic units No. 2, No. 7 and No. 9. The immediate cause of the destruction of hydraulic unit No. 2 was fatigue failure of turbine cover mounting studs as a result of vibration, that occurred during power unit power mode transitions through the “forbidden zone” range. (Act of technical investigation of the causes of the accident at the Sayano-Shushenskaya hydroelectric station. Rostekhnadzor (2009-10-03).
    In the act of the commission of Rostekhnadzor six officials indicated, involved, in her opinion, "in the creation of conditions conducive to the occurrence of an accident", including the former head of RAO "UES of Russia" A. B. Chubais, the former technical director of RAO "UES of Russia" BF Vainzikher, the former head of OJSC " RusHydro ”V. Yu. Sinyugin and former Minister of Energy I. Kh. Yusufov. In addition, the act contains the names of 19 officials "responsible for the prevention of incidents and accidents at the plant" and lists the violations identified by the commission in the exercise of their duties. Among these persons are the management of JSC RusHydro, headed by the Acting Chairman of the Management Board V. A. Zubakin, as well as the management of the hydroelectric power station, headed by its director N. I. Nevolko.
    Now answer: did any of them bear criminal liability? And why, while fulfilling their duties, receiving substantial money for this, 19 people (!) Did not scream that it is impossible to continue to operate the G / A with such impellers! That the overhaul periods cannot be rescheduled! It turns out that there were such, but they quickly shut their mouths, they say even from a very high top. (President of the Russian Federation D. A. Medvedev expressed the opinion that one should not overly dramatize the situation and make “apocalyptic” comments. 19rus.info (25 of August 2009).
    2. In the country of victorious capitalism, the Golden Calf rules. And the legendary names of the unsinkable say that the guard at the calf is thorough (from the tribe of the chosen god) for profit. IMHO
  32. postman
    postman 6 December 2013 16: 19
    +3
    Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
    "Vague doubts torment me ..." (c)

    And me too
    Quote: author
    This is not “Weapon from the Pass”, where I look like an amateur, I’m a professional in this topic, so listen with respect.

    got it .... cool idea with microhypersonic bullets looks "more serious"

    1.Massive and low-speed hydraulic turbines in large hydropower plants rotate at a speed of (TOTAL that): 150 rpm


    2. Three-phase power supply system - System balance, synchronous integration of power systems
    Turbine ARV (or ARS), Primary Frequency Control and General Primary Frequency Control
    Operational dispatch control in the electric power industry
    http://so-ups.ru/fileadmin/files/company/r-n-tpolitics/frequency/specdocs/
    sto_standard / STO_17330282.29.240.002-2007.pdf


    3. RPA of hydrogenerators and RPA of turbine generators (the idea of ​​a "virus" is very suitable for TPP / TPP)
    And the protection of the rotor shaft, in my opinion, has not been implemented, despite the circular number Ts-05-88
    Most likely the version is "more mundane" and more banal
    - Hydro unit No. 2 was launched November 5 1979 years
    - The system of continuous vibration control installed on the hydraulic unit No. 2 in 2009, It was not put into operation and was not taken into account by operational personnel.
    -number of transitions и the length of time spent in it hydraulic unit through an area of ​​not recommended work in the process of changing their capacity according to GRARM commands
    ]

  33. leon-iv
    leon-iv 6 December 2013 16: 51
    +4
    Even write broke describing this nonsense. By the nature of the activity, engineers in IT and I can say that this is nonsense because I know how these networks are built. Good to all.
    1. I think so
      I think so 7 December 2013 00: 12
      0
      Apparently, such "engineers" created a system at this hydroelectric power station ... And then, with aplomb, they "fouled" everyone who tried and is trying to say that ALL THIS SYSTEM IS SUBJECTED to external attacks. God forbid you were entrusted or instructed to participate in something serious and responsible ... God forbid ...
  34. Makarov
    Makarov 6 December 2013 17: 38
    0
    I have one question for the "genius" .... So you write: "the system will go into resonance ..." by introducing the system into resonance, the virus stops working or, without changing the frequency change algorithm, continues to work?
  35. uzer 13
    uzer 13 6 December 2013 17: 40
    +2
    There was information in the CHIP journal that some components are flashing a virus or control program at the manufacturing stage. It is difficult to detect by conventional means, because the hardware of the device is involved and the initially malicious code is inactive. Activation is possible in different ways, not necessarily through the Internet.
    1. postman
      postman 6 December 2013 21: 35
      0
      Quote: uzer 13
      that some components are flashing viral or

      Even a reasonable "hint" to such a tab-BANKRUPTCY of this manufacturer.
      HERE EVEN NO ONE WILL EVER BUY THE EYE TOILET PAPER
      Quote: uzer 13
      Activation is possible in many ways, not necessarily via the Internet.

      Which ones?
      The shallow fluctuation of the Higgs field? or gravity field?
      IMHO: there must be a receiver, a signal handler and at least AIP (after all, the "return code" can come when the equipment is OFF / de-energized)

      ===============
      Is something observable?
  36. your1970
    your1970 6 December 2013 17: 56
    +1
    Quote: Krasnoarmeec
    Incredibly, high-risk equipment has direct Internet access.


    About the Internet like the author did not mention request yes, okay "Shusha", but so that in the Iranian nuclear program, at least someone does not have access to the Internet belay !?!?!?! I think they will be fired without any allowance "for livelihoods" bully

    If it’s a virus, then only with personal introduction ... so the cyber weapon is not perfect, again currents, if you rely on this article. hi

    They found out - a USB flash drive brought to work from home by one of the scientists with the virus picked up somewhere .....
  37. viktor_ui
    viktor_ui 6 December 2013 18: 20
    +3
    I read the reviews and even got sick to me ... why ??? ... Yes, because it has become very convenient to blame the IM MANAGERS (who hide their incompetence in absolutely any technical issues ... except for a quick dough) on MYTHICAL HACKERS-SHPUYONOV, who spoil all the raspberries for these creative "correct" metropolitan guys. .. because from this we and the turbines in the ceiling of the hydroelectric power station fly away and satellites fall, warehouses explode and the military budget with a pension has been stealing for a year ... well, etc .. Do you want a stupid example ??? At the Cellulose Plant, 30 km from the city, we have TWO containers of 40 tons each of residual dust from cellulose carpets ... well, if they SUDDENLY BOOT, then half of the city will blow the roof off (he himself was an engineer at one time, if in their integrated system, God forbid, at least one tracking sensor will fail) ... well, we need a hacker shpuyon in this matter, if it's just enough of a creative leader (count in his drawbar), who doesn't care about the concept of the laws of the technological chain ?? ? How many days at this hydroelectric power station vibration of the dome of the energy module was observed in the chambers? What did the leading engineer say about the consequences to the goat managers of this hydroelectric power station ??? ... to continue the line of events I have already scrapped ... you are EXACTLY DEBLES, if all around you began to look for spuyens and enemies ... well, the flag is in your hands because the humpbacked grave will fix wassat Let's chat in real life?
    1. calocha
      calocha 6 December 2013 23: 30
      0
      About shpuyenov holoso is known since the time of Stalin. Cali machines of foreign countries became "suddenly" lamazza. They became pilnavats (guard). Those who were caught in their hands had detailed drawings indicating the units that need to be taken out of order ... During the withdrawal of these, all who worked for The machine became unemployed, because the machine was not subject to restoration. All of the above - you need to check! Since this version has the right to life. The guilty are severely punished. And to do so that this would not happen again in the future.
  38. saag
    saag 6 December 2013 18: 56
    0
    Quote: viktor_ui
    40 tons each residual dust from cellulose carpets

    Is the dust dry, not wet?
    1. viktor_ui
      viktor_ui 6 December 2013 19: 28
      +1
      absolutely dry fine ... at one time the Finns ran scalded until the tracking sensor system was rebuilt .... well, after the bunker was completely filled, all this crap was taken out and taken out to the dumps of lignin and burned ... wellooo burns bully Article 100 pounds custom-set minus.
  39. Aristarch
    Aristarch 6 December 2013 19: 50
    +1
    Imported equipment, as well as accessories to it, or mounted of them connected to the network, these are the risks that the author spoke about. But the question is, what did Ukrainian experts do on Sayank ???
    Quote; "In March 2009 Ukrainian specialists removed these important parameters."
    How to understand this? What did they do there? and then the author himself does not know, but our State was worried about cybersecurity even before the beginning of 2000. since there have been cases of procurement of the current comp. for state institutions in whose chips certain tracking teams were sewn. So the state is vigilant, but agrees with the author that security is a priority in these matters.
  40. homosum20
    homosum20 6 December 2013 20: 18
    +1
    So, you don’t even have to add anything to the element base. It is enough to hammer the corresponding block into the system software of the controller. Any program has debugging inputs known only to programmers. They are not documented. What makes it difficult to create another undocumented entry?
    By the way, according to Boeing's black box that crashed in Kazan, all the aircraft's equipment worked properly until the very end. But the speech recorder, the design of which is designed for the most severe blow, "lost" the cell with the record. Found later.
    The most likely explanation is a seizure of control. Well, there will be no pilot in his right mind to give the helm away all the way to takeoff. But the controller on command can easily simulate a signal at its output, regardless of the input upon receipt of the corresponding command.
    And so that the astonished reaction of the crew was not detected, the voice recorder is damaged.
    1. igor.borov775
      igor.borov775 8 December 2013 20: 24
      0
      It’s impossible, because there the plane has already gained altitude, it seems 700 meters and then, for some reason, having carried it to the bottom, I don’t believe in something like that, there is something special to take control here and it can only be in one place and it’s doubtful, no need to blame for something that wasn’t, But the idea needs to be thrown to the Poles and along the way to say they say there they did something you know where, Joke! It’s very jarring
  41. 11111mail.ru
    11111mail.ru 6 December 2013 20: 21
    0
    B.Sh. Okudzhava: Why are you Vanka Morozova? After all, he is not to blame for anything!
    It is clear that the author does not “cut” in the generator protection system. Well, a timely question was thrown! About cybersecurity not ours, not the national economy!
  42. fbm1949
    fbm1949 6 December 2013 21: 13
    -1
    Quote: 11111mail.ru
    20-50 thousand

    First of all, I will thank the author of the article for the courage.
    A bit late, but nonetheless relevant article.
    I myself conducted a private investigation into the cause of the accident, as well as the processes that occurred at the time of the accident.
    The cause of the accident has been established; almost all the processes that occurred during the accident have been identified.
    Now everything consists in finding a publisher for the book under the working title "ACCIDENT and TRAGEDY of the Northern Sh. HPP".
    In essence, the hypothesis expressed by the author of the article, I can say the following: The theme of destructive resonance, when secondary harmonics are superimposed on the primary harmonics, etc. It’s very interesting, but I draw the attention of the author to the processes of rotation speeds compared to him and to whether it is possible to construct harmonics corresponding to the destructive resonance in such rotation processes.
    Undoubtedly, the topic of resonance in the water stream, the stream itself in the UK and the Republic of Kazakhstan and its further development in the OT, interaction with the harness under the Republic of Kazakhstan, it is necessary to study what corporate science in RUSHYDRO actually does today.
    As regards the cyber security of strategic targets, this problem raised by the author is very relevant and then the author’s idea becomes clear through the version of the accident at the NW HPP proposed for discussion to draw attention to the cyber security of these facilities. EXTREMELY TIME!
    1. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 7 December 2013 21: 38
      +1
      Boris Mikhailovich, I did not print any "20-50 thousand" in my commentary! What are the complaints against me? I'm not a boy either, and I read my comments for insurance. It is possible to correct the information just entered, so use this function! The button is to the right of the "Quote" button and is named "Edit". All the best to you!
  43. qwert1707
    qwert1707 6 December 2013 22: 40
    -1
    I don’t know about viruses and attacks of the Pentagon at the secondary school of hydroelectric power plants ..
    And on vacation, I watched a program about an accident ... that water creates such a pressure on the turbine blades, with air bubbles, which destroys the metal on the blades ... what causes the turbine to be unbalanced, loosens it on the mounts and finally pulls it out ..
    And so it was at the secondary school of hydroelectric power plants ... and, as always, it ... obviously and saving led to an accident ...
    It was necessary to check the turbine, but no one did it ... as always GREAT AND POWERFUL AVOS
  44. APASUS
    APASUS 6 December 2013 22: 50
    0
    I do not exclude the possibility of remote access, but the author did not disclose at all the data that pointed to this virus.
    Or didn’t want to?
    This accident was not the first, the first was an explosion at the gas pumping station of the Yamal-Europe gas pipeline in my opinion in 82, but there the guys quickly gutted all their brains and proved the resonance was the result of a software tab.
    In this particular case, my opinion is the human factor !!
    Everyone knew perfectly well the problems of this unit, its legally unauthorized start-up and technical flaws. But it was still launched, the signature on the document was Chubais himself. Specifically, the unit ruined the greed of the owner, who was not used to investing money, squeezing all the people and equipment to the last .
    This is the new Russian capitalism - to buy on occasion from your official and make yourself a second fortune in the world in 2 years !!!
  45. VADEL
    VADEL 6 December 2013 22: 57
    -1
    The truth is somewhere nearby, the truth is somewhere there. As with the Kursk nuclear submarine. There are sacrifices, but there is no truth. Here and "Piggy" understand them, these "fateful rulers" and "zooplazers".
  46. KG_patriot_last
    KG_patriot_last 6 December 2013 23: 10
    0
    Well, of course, the author is right and probably the viruses were found in computers after the accident? Or were the computers in another building away from the turbines? Or did someone manage to launch the virus and then hide the traces? Then how does the author know about this? Yes, have I really solved the crime? Is the author a resonator?
    An article in the spirit of the paragraph I wrote above ...
  47. calocha
    calocha 6 December 2013 23: 16
    -2
    The FSB- sleeps in shafts. There is sabotage. Enter the term - Enemy of the People! Need cleaning! With such sabotage Putin's promises are worthless on market day. Saboteurs work precisely and efficiently, and counteractions are invisible. Unscrew this flywheel and .. roll show court.
    1. SOUTH,
      SOUTH, 8 December 2013 21: 13
      0
      That’s the reason Putin is to blame. uli take galosh!
  48. studentmati
    studentmati 6 December 2013 23: 42
    0
    This article is a good reason to think about it and take appropriate measures for electronic equipment operators, because 99% of it is built on a foreign element base!
  49. studentmati
    studentmati 7 December 2013 00: 16
    0
    By and large, and figuratively speaking, we have already launched a Trojan horse for a long time, which in the form of the simplest microcircuits has settled in all our computers, TVs, refrigerators, cars, ... And on the scale of the State in all production lines, control systems and control. And even Glonass-M is built on a French platform ... sad
    And these weapons over time will be much more effective than any nuclear warheads.
  50. Flatter
    Flatter 7 December 2013 00: 20
    0
    How can one imagine a vibration of a mass of several thousand tons? A working hydraulic unit is practically inaudible. Its rotation speed during operation is constant, determined by the number of generator poles and unchanged for any permissible change in electric load. The delivered electric power is regulated by a relatively small excitation current on one side and pressure water from the other. Protection devices, in emergency situations, are worked out and reliable, both mechanical and electronic circuits and high technologies are not needed there and the safety of the facility depends on the personnel. As an option: the voltage on the generator has disappeared, the whole mass of water is from a height of hundreds meters spin the turbine in the blink of an eye, with idle protection devices. Weakly believe in low-quality bolts.