Military Review

Chinese penalty. Anti-ship ballistic missile "Dongfeng-21D"

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Chinese penalty. Anti-ship ballistic missile "Dongfeng-21D"



Prologue

This история started exactly 30 years ago. In December, the first battery of medium-range strategic missiles MGM-1983C Pershing II was deployed in Germany 31.

A small deadly masterpiece, built by the specialists of the company Martin Marietta, was a mobile complex with a two-stage solid-fuel BR with a maximum range of 1770 km. In addition to a drastic reduction in flight time (the warhead only needed 10 minutes to fly to Moscow), the Pershing 2 prepared another surprise for the Soviet leadership - its circular deviation, which is traditionally low for American ballistic missiles, was reduced to incredible 30 meters!

The main secret of the "Pershing-2" was a maneuvering warhead equipped with the Radar Digital Area Guidance (RADAG) homing system.

Touching the stars at an altitude of 300 km, the warhead was rapidly returning to the Earth’s atmosphere. In the depths of the body, reliably protected from heat, cold and overloads, methodically ticked off the seconds on-board computer ... 428, 429, 430 - the Karman line was passed. It's time! Guided by the data of the gyroscopes of the INS, the combat unit "Pershing-2" was deployed in space perpendicular to the fall trajectory. Brakes! Brakes! Plasma streams shreds off the slippery surface of the hull and are carried away into the purple mist of the stratosphere. At first, weak and discharged, the atmosphere is already confidently whistling overboard, swaying in their streams the brave man who dared to defy the air of the ocean.

At an altitude of about 15 km, the Pershing-2 extinguished speed to 2-3 speeds of sound, the INS once again oriented the warhead properly - and the most interesting began. The radar of the RADAG system came to life under the ablative plastic fairing - the warhead received an annular image of the underlying relief by scanning around a vertical axis with an angular velocity of 2 rev / sec. Four reference images of the target area for different heights, recorded in the form of a matrix, each cell of which corresponded to the brightness of a given area in the selected radio wave range, were stored in the onboard computer's memory. Comparing the data obtained with the radar maps stored in the memory, the warhead determined its current position and the error of the ANN. Correction of the combat unit at trans-atmospheric altitudes was carried out with the help of a system of jet nozzles using a supply of compressed air; in the atmosphere - aerodynamic surfaces with hydraulic drive.

Having completed its task, the RADAG system was shut off at an altitude of about 1 km. Having received the last corrective impulse, the warhead swooped on the selected target along a ballistic trajectory, conducting a point-to-point destruction of protected command posts, communications centers, important military and civilian infrastructure on the territory of the enemy.

The nightmarish complex became one of the hot topics in the Soviet-American 80 negotiations. The Kremlin insisted on the immediate elimination of the "Damocles sword" hanging over the entire European part of the USSR: there was no way to defend against Pershing, a hundred missiles could disarm and decapitate the country in a few minutes. In connection with the restructuring policy that began and the sequence of mutual concessions, medium-range Pershing 2 medium-range missiles were removed from combat duty in 1988-89. under an international INF Treaty.


Two-stage solid-fuel rocket complex MGM-31C Pershing II in the context of: 1,2 - engines of the first and second stage; 3 - adapter; 4 - aerodynamic steering wheels; 5 - control system; 6 - warhead; 7 - radar and complex command devices on a stabilized platform; 8 - ballistic tip with contact fuse.
The length of the rocket in the initial position - 10,61 m. Starting weight - 6,8 tons. Head Weight - 1362 kg. The cost of a serial rocket - 1 million dollars in 80-s prices.

"Guns of the Island of Navarrone", or the Chinese equivalent of "Pershing 2"

It might have seemed to someone that we paid too much attention to the American Cold War rocket. But it is “Pershing 2” that is the best evidence that all our subsequent conversation lies outside the plane of theoretical speculation and assumptions. China is not bluffing. There are no fundamental prohibitions on the way of the realization of their daring plan: such systems appeared more than 30 years ago and proved their high potential in practice.

The idea of ​​creating anti-ship ballistic missiles arose during the modernization of the medium-range missile system "Dongfeng 21" ("East Wind 21"). Really existing weaponadopted by the PLA in the 1996 year (modification DF-21А). All subsequent 15 years, "Dongfeng" has been continuously improved - the last modification of the DF-21C, which reached operational readiness in the 2010 year, demonstrated a QUO less than 40 meters. At about the same time, data literally exploded from the Pentagon came from China: the Chinese Communists plan to use the new modification DF-21D as an anti-ship weapon!

As it became known later, the creators of “Dongfeng” tried several combined guidance schemes (INS / GPS / ARGSN), after all, having opted for the scheme used in the American “Pershing-2”. The rest of the DF-21D is the next stage in the evolution of the tested Dongfans: a mobile launch platform with medium-range missiles, a missile length of about 10 meters, a starting weight within 15 tons, a conventional (non-nuclear) warhead, the calculated launch range 1450 km, max. flight speed 10 Mach.


Sensational footage from the rocket range in the Gobi Desert. The "usual" medium-range BR, which demonstrates fantastic accuracy

The ballistic anti-ship missile has a number of brilliant advantages over conventional anti-ship missiles:
Firstly, the enormous launch range is 2-3 times as large as the heaviest Soviet PCR of the П-500 / 700 / 1000 family.
Secondly, moving in near-Earth space, the ballistic missile develops speed, inconceivable for conventional RCC. Despite the increased firing range, the flight time is several times lower than that of cruise missiles: the strategic Pershing-2 BR only had enough 10 minutes to fly from the banks of the Rhine to the walls of the Moscow Kremlin!

Third, the main advantage: being on the march, the ballistic missile is completely invulnerable to enemy air defenses. Transatmospheric altitudes and hypersonic speed (however, in the airless space this concept loses its meaning) do not allow taking any action to intercept it.

I predict a stormy reaction of a highly respected public, associated with the appearance in the US Navy’s arsenal of the RIM-161 Standard-3 interceptor missile, which is capable of hitting targets in low near-earth orbits. No, gentlemen, comrades. "Stand-3" can not be a reliable shield against the Chinese ballistic anti-ship missiles. The reason is simple - the missile flying time is too short: even after finding the torch of the launching Dongfeng using advanced F-35 onboard systems (which is unlikely), the Yankee has eight minutes to spare. The Aegis ships' radars cannot control space at such a distance - at best, they will notice Dongfeng on the descending branch of the trajectory, at a distance of 300-400 km. This is too late. Calculate the trajectory of a speeding rocket in two minutes and launch a kinetic interceptor in response is an unrealistic task.

The Yankees demonstrated the capabilities of their Stender-3 by successfully intercepting a failed USA-193 space satellite moving at an altitude of 247 km at the first space velocity — but it was a goal with a predetermined trajectory. The turtle is able to catch up with Achilles - the main thing is to be at the right place on the track at the right time. The cruiser advanced in advance to the desired point of the oceans, took aim in advance and ... fired right on target. How long did the preparation of the entire operation last? A working group of 300 specialists from Raytheon, the Navy, and NASA prepared the necessary data and instructions for a month and a half! In the case of the DF-21D, the time will be on the side of the Chinese.

Having made a short suborbital throw, Dongfeng will return to the dense layers of the atmosphere. The last stage "Stand-3" is a space interceptor probe - it is effective only in airless space, but is constrained to maneuver at low altitudes.

Finally, a few curious facts for completeness: at the present time, the 37 ships in the world are capable of using the Stand-3 (among them, six Japanese destroyers). The fleets of other countries are in principle devoid of any means to intercept targets in the upper atmosphere. And the cost of one kinetic interceptor reaches 24 million dollars!


Missiles of the Dongfeng family

You can try to intercept the Chinese ballistic anti-ship missile on the final part of the trajectory when it reduces the speed to “adequate” 2-3М and starts searching for a target using on-board radar. The best of the existing American missiles - the RIM-156 Standard 2ER Block IV hits the 24 400 meters high (the maneuverability of the RIM-156 at the extreme height is not large - aerodynamic control surfaces are inefficient in discharged air).

However, in this case too, the victim (that’s the name of the target of the ballistic missile) is in a completely disadvantageous position:
1. The flight time from this point does not exceed 30 seconds.
2. Ballistic "Dongfeng" attacks the victim from the zenith. Outside the sector of the review of the radar of modern ships - after all, they were counting on threats in the Earth’s atmosphere with a more “flatter” trajectory.

Main question

How realistic is a ballistic missile to hit the ship? The ship is a moving target. But to what extent can this “mobility” affect the success of the Dongfeng mission?

Even the most high-speed AUGs in ideal weather conditions cannot move faster than 30 nodes (≈56 km / h, in practice, even lower). The speed of the ships is negligible compared to the speed of a ballistic missile. “Dongfeng” approaches its goal so quickly that in the reference system related to the surface of the Earth, its own motion of the AUG will not create any difficulties in developing corrective impulses of the GOS of the rocket. The computational capabilities of the homing head make it easy to solve such problems in the same way as all modern supersonic anti-ship missiles are aimed at.

The anti-ship "Dongfeng" to some extent should have an advantage over the "Pershing 2" - in contrast to the US medium-range BR, which needed to find a specific building / hangar / site among thousands of other relief features - buildings, forests, fields and hills dotted with a network of roads , power lines and embankments w / d.

The Chinese anti-ship missile has a simpler task: to isolate a huge 330-meter steel structure against the background of an absolutely identical sea surface. However, the 150-meter destroyer is also difficult to call imperceptible - when viewed from the zenith, all his stealth techniques lose their effectiveness.

The only possible problem is EW funds. The last, saving chance for those who are in the affected area is to try to “hammer” the terrible rocket’s radar with all sorts of interferences, take it off course with the use of dipole clouds, etc. “false targets”. Will the giant aircraft carrier be hidden from the Dongfeng gaze? And will the existing EW facilities and anti-missile anti-missile systems with such an unusual trajectory be effective? In any case, this is the only real chance to try to avoid a catastrophe - to use other interception systems is useless.

Target designation

The most important stage, without which any weapon with a trans-horizon shooting range becomes useless. Who will determine the approximate coordinates and location of the target at a distance of 1500 km? How to detect the approaching AUG, which is able to move 1000 km in 24 hours?

The Chinese shrug - as usual. Using radio interception stations, over-the-horizon radars and reconnaissance space satellites. If possible, ships, submarines and Aviation. The main role is given to space reconnaissance equipment: according to open data, since April 2006, China launched 18 satellites of the Yaogan Weissin series, electronic, and radar reconnaissance into orbit. In addition to conventional optical-electronic means and radio interception systems, some of the satellites (for example, Yaogan-5, launched on December 15, 2008) were equipped with active side-scan radars with a synthesized aperture. Nowadays, the operation of satellites with radar does not require extremely low orbits and nuclear energy sources (hello ICRC “Legend”!), Which significantly reduces the cost of the spacecraft and increases its service life by an order of magnitude.


The wake trail is much larger than the size of the ship itself.
The main unmasking factor when detected from space

Space reconnaissance systems are capable of transmitting images of moving naval targets and their giant wake tracks stretching for tens of miles, detecting the thermal radiation of ships and locating radio sources on board them.
Radar satellites are able to independently detect a target at any time of day under any weather conditions, using active radar.

A definite role is assigned to terrestrial over-the-horizon radars, which use in their work the effect of diffractive surface propagation of radio waves (the so-called ground wave). Such systems have been used in different countries for decades - to control the marine economic zone and coastal waters.


Over-the-horizon "Wave" radar, which uses the effect of surface waves in operation. Located on the coast, in the district of Nakhodka. The estimated detection range of marine targets (large ships and ships) reaches 3000 km

Finally, coastal stations, airplanes and electronic reconnaissance ships, submarine barriers - all of them are capable of giving an approximate position of the enemy's AUG and KUG.

A lot of ways. The main problem is the rapid obsolescence of data. After an hour, the area of ​​the probable location of the AUG will turn into a circle with a radius of 50 kilometers. The exact characteristics of the Dunfeng 21D rocket are not known at this time: the height of the firing, the sensitivity, the viewing sector ... can the warhead detect the target located at a distance of 50 ... 100 km? In any case, the Chinese should hurry. Multi-square salvo shooting increases the chances of success. At the same time, one hit of the DF-21D rocket is enough to disable any modern ship.


"They play the role of a stick, which you can drive away a dog that ran into your yard, but no one will attack with a stick on the house where this dog lives",
- say the Chinese military about the defensive nature of the system DF-21D


Realistic Design

Please flip your keyboard and see what is written there. Made in China. What a surprise!

A country that clothes the whole world and supplies it with everything you need - from irons to the most complex personal computers, is not like someone who throws words to the wind. The Chinese are launching giant supertankers (Xin Buyan), building the largest and most modern ports in the world (Shanghai), laying railways in high-altitude Tibet, setting up high-speed train lines, building skyscrapers and other fantastic engineering structures throughout the country. They copied the American destroyer "Berk", the C-300 SAM and the Su-33 fighter, completed the Soviet aircraft carrier, created their own nuclear submarine fleet. Launch spacecraft and moon rovers. They have at their disposal the entire technological potential of the USA and Europe. It is in China that such giants as Apple and IBM translate their production. Smartphones, rockets, helicopters, cars and road-building equipment - they copy everything, constantly moving forward and creating their own samples based on copies, surpassing the original in terms of price / quality ratio.

Doubts that China will not be able to copy the ancient "Pershing-2" - at least not grounded and naive. The same applies to the development of the homing head on a modern elemental base - the Chinese are not afraid of hard work and are used to overcoming difficulties.
The DF-21D system will reach operational readiness, giving rise to the creation of new impressive models of naval weapons.





Mobile missile system of the Dongfeng family



The flight path of the Pershing-2 BR. Of particular interest is the final plot with correction on four radar maps of the terrain.



Pershing!
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  1. makarov
    makarov 6 December 2013 08: 47
    +4
    Everything goes to the apocalypse ..... humanity is its manufacturer.
    1. avt
      avt 6 December 2013 11: 32
      +3
      Quote: makarov
      Everything goes to the apocalypse ....

      No, as we have on TV, one petty politician said - "Argamedon gentlemen!", To him the journalists - "How did you say!?" "Yes, yes, Argamedon!" laughing
      1. USNik
        USNik 6 December 2013 13: 29
        0
        Quote: avt
        Quote: makarov
        Everything goes to the apocalypse ....

        No, as we have on TV, one petty politician said - "Argamedon gentlemen!", To him the journalists - "How did you say!?" "Yes, yes, Argamedon!" laughing

        It seems that public figures completely forget the Russian language and make reservations on purpose, either fecal carriers, or the State Duma ... And on the topic of the article, we can say that the Chinese, like the Americans, hit the target with previously known coordinates, and still not moving. What will happen in the case of AUG will only show time.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. anunahs
        anunahs 2 September 2015 17: 46
        0
        Do not worry. Americans know how to fight only with the Papuans, and that is not always successful.
    2. datur
      datur 6 December 2013 13: 52
      0
      [quote = makarov] Everything goes to the apocalypse ..... humanity is its manufacturer .--- some of its representatives! 1 wink
    3. datur
      datur 6 December 2013 13: 52
      0
      [quote = makarov] Everything goes to the apocalypse ..... humanity is its manufacturer .--- some of its representatives! 1 wink
  2. 755962
    755962 6 December 2013 08: 52
    +4
    Berries ahead ...
    It's only the beginning...
    Yuan outperformed the euro, becoming the second most traded currency in the world
    According to the World Interbank Financial Telecommunications Community (SWIFT), the Chinese yuan bypassed the euro as the second world most used currency in the calculations.

    http://mixednews.ru/archives/45000
  3. Sanyht
    Sanyht 6 December 2013 09: 25
    +3
    Putin, if he is an intelligent person, is obliged and must build a new capital of the Russian Federation in the middle of the country, in the regions of the Ural Mountains !!! after all, Nazarbayev did such a thing !!! a lot of WORK, a big SALARY - A PROMISING COUNTRY AND HAPPY PEOPLE !!! and the defense system will be easier for us and more difficult for ENEMIES.
    1. Bongo
      Bongo 6 December 2013 13: 05
      +6
      Clever and honest is not the same thing.
    2. ilea123456
      ilea123456 6 December 2013 21: 07
      0
      Not the most successful example about Nazarbayev
    3. POBEDA
      POBEDA 7 December 2013 03: 22
      +4
      Yeah, but maybe it would be wiser to push the borders of the country away from the capital? AND?
  4. VohaAhov
    VohaAhov 6 December 2013 09: 50
    +2
    It is time for Russia to think about a similar complex. Under the guise of anti-ship missiles, create an anti-ship ballistic missile with a launch range of 2500-3000 km.
    1. Rus2012
      Rus2012 6 December 2013 11: 22
      +1
      Quote: VohaAhov
      It is time for Russia to think about a similar complex. Under the guise of anti-ship missiles, create an anti-ship ballistic missile with a launch range of 2500-3000 km.

      Already working ... :)))
    2. Nayhas
      Nayhas 6 December 2013 12: 07
      +2
      Quote: VohaAhov
      It is time for Russia to think about a similar complex. Under the guise of anti-ship missiles, create an anti-ship ballistic missile with a launch range of 2500-3000 km.

      Why reinvent the wheel when it is enough to withdraw from the INF Treaty ...
    3. rolik
      rolik 6 December 2013 12: 22
      +4
      Quote: VohaAhov
      It is time for Russia to think about a similar complex. Under the guise of anti-ship missiles, create an anti-ship ballistic missile with a launch range of 2500-3000 km

      We have made such missiles more than 30 years ago.
      R-27K (URAF index of the Navy - 4K10, START code - RSM-25, according to the classification of the United States Defense Ministry and NATO - SS-N-6 Mod 1, Serb) - Soviet liquid single-stage ballistic missile of the D-5 complex deployed in submarines ( SLBM) of project 667A and 667AU. The development of the rocket was carried out in SKB-385 under the leadership of the chief designer Makeev V.P. from 1962 to 1968. Adopted March 13, 1968. Currently withdrawn from service.
      1. desava
        desava 7 December 2013 05: 45
        0
        Only its launch range was 900 km. But this is the 60s !!! I am sure that in our time it is more than realistic to create its development with higher performance characteristics.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    4. AVV
      AVV 8 December 2013 23: 58
      0
      The Chinese missile is certainly good, but calibers with a range of 2500 will be better, because. it’s harder to detect and flying above the ocean at 10 m they do not give a chance, even if a volley of several missiles was fired, and the Aegis system is not designed to fight KR !!! http: //topwar.ru/17745-podlodku- severodvinsk-vooruzhat-krylatoy-raketoy-s-pre
      delnoy-dalnostyu-poleta-bolee-2500-km.html
      1. Windbreak
        Windbreak 9 December 2013 11: 31
        0
        Quote: AVV
        but calibers with a range of 2500 will be better
        This is an ordinary subsonic missile for hitting ground targets. Anti-ship calibers have a range of 350-375 km
    5. byben
      byben 14 December 2013 23: 25
      0
      The INF Treaty does not allow.
      Only if with a ship or submarine.
  5. ramin_serg
    ramin_serg 6 December 2013 10: 03
    0
    There will be no end to this, as the struggle of armor and steel each time will be a new development of missiles or anti-missiles
  6. avt
    avt 6 December 2013 10: 11
    +6
    laughing Seeing a picture of an aircraft carrier drowned by ballistic missiles, I immediately realized - the author is Oleg.
    Quote: VohaAhov
    Putin, if he is an intelligent person, is obliged and must build a new capital of the Russian Federation in the middle of the country, in the regions of the Ural Mountains !!!

    And then back, or somewhere else. Movement is life ! laughing You can think of a mobile option, again we will raise the mechanical engineering. A little championship and olympiad? And can still put things in order? Although the "reformers" inflated Moscow to disgrace, nailed production and design bureaus, one trade and a bunch of loitering managers with anxious look as if they were deciding something important, fateful, or looking for a free toilet, however, it became a rarity in the capital with a huge crowd of people.
    1. ben gun
      ben gun 6 December 2013 11: 03
      +5
      Aha!
      Quote: avt
      Quote: VohaAkhovPutin, if he is an intelligent person, is obliged and must build a new capital of the Russian Federation in the middle of the country, in the regions of the Ural Mountains !!! And then back, or somewhere else. Movement is life ! You can think of a mobile option, again, mechanical engineering will raise.

      And you can also come up with an inflatable, self-runaway layout of the capital! like a bait, deceive the adversaries! drinks
      and inflatable mock up factories and steamboats!
      1. Rus2012
        Rus2012 6 December 2013 12: 47
        +2
        Quote: ben gun
        and inflatable layout

        such a model of aircraft carriers will soon have to drag mattresses along the Akian seas :))))))))))
    2. rolik
      rolik 6 December 2013 12: 33
      +3
      Quote: avt
      You can think of a mobile option

      This was already with the Mongols))))) The capital of the horde Karakorum, was transported in carts)))))
  7. saturn.mmm
    saturn.mmm 6 December 2013 11: 06
    +3
    Thank you for the article. I would like to know the opinion of the author about the PGRK “Speed” project.
  8. Rus2012
    Rus2012 6 December 2013 11: 19
    +7
    Bravo, Oleg!


    There are many ways. The main problem is the rapid obsolescence of data. Within an hour, the area of ​​the probable location of the AUG will turn into a circle with a radius of 50 kilometers. At the moment, the exact characteristics of the Dongfeng-21D missile seeker are unknown: turn-on altitude, sensitivity, field of view ... can the warhead detect a target that is 50 away from it ... 100 km?

    On the Soviet R-27K - a passive seeker made it possible to identify a radio-contrast target within a radius of 150-170 km (from memory). If we apply optical comparison (the theme "Aerophone" and at different wavelengths: from UV to IR, to increase all-weather resistance), the vaunted electronic warfare systems will be practically useless ...
    Unlike Pershing, target guidance can be divided into several stages: atmospheric guidance - AGSN-radar, atmospheric (with the upper boundary - 40 ... 25km) after the plasma formation zone.
    And yet, as Ascetic wrote, to break through the missile defense system (if they appear), launch a taxiway along an energy-consuming pseudo-stable trajectory with a PCB :))))))))
    And AUGs will walk only when we deign! bully
  9. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 December 2013 11: 39
    +8
    Let's just take and take on faith absolutely everything that Oleg Kaptsov writes about the Chinese rocket, namely:
    1) The rocket acts like a pershing
    2) warhead missiles able to allocate an aircraft carrier and go at him
    So what do we have? And we have an ordinary ballistic warhead moving along a ballistic trajectory. The next question. Can modern air defense systems destroy such targets?
    We go here and look at the performance characteristics of our S-400 "Triumph" http://old.raspletin.ru/produce/adms/s400/
    Read
    Range of defeat of tactical ballistic targets, km - to 60.
    Target hight, km - 30
    The maximum speed of the hit targets, m / s - 4800
    For С-300ПМУ2 these characteristics are more modest - the complex can hit ballistic targets at 40 km, the maximum target speed is 2,8 km / s.
    Thus, today we already have complexes capable of hitting ballistic ammunition flying at a speed close to hypersonic. But targets with the speed of 2-3М (up to 1000 m / s) are not able to hit the Standard-2ER, it’s even, perhaps, Standard-1.
    How will it look like? The radar of the general view of the ship will "draw" the enemy ballista long before approaching the target. By the time the missile warhead enters the atmosphere, their trajectories will be calculated, the missiles will be prepared for launch. Oleg writes
    However, in this case too, the victim (that’s the name of the target of the ballistic missile) is in a completely disadvantageous position:

    And fantasy begins
    1. The flight time from this point does not exceed 30 seconds.

    What is more than enough to launch a rocket ready for it and successfully hit at least one 10 warhead. Unless, of course, everything is ready for this. But according to Oleg, the ship could not be ready to hit a ballistic missile. Why?

    2. Ballistic "Dongfeng" attacks the victim from the zenith. Outside the sector of the review of the radar of modern ships - after all, they were counting on threats in the Earth’s atmosphere with a more “flatter” trajectory.

    I cry, no, I cry in three streams. Oleg, would you even climb into Wikipedia before writing such a heresy or something. AN / SPY-1 radars on Arly berks are located under 45 hail. And each AN / SPY-1 grille provides a viewing sector in 90 degrees both in azimuth and elevation. So absolutely everything on escort ships will be visible.
    1. Santa Fe
      6 December 2013 15: 19
      +3
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      Read
      Range of defeat of tactical ballistic targets, km - to 60.
      Target hight, km - 30
      The maximum speed of the hit targets, m / s - 4800

      How was this data obtained?
      Yankees - even though they conduct missile defense exercises annually. But how did the creators of the S-400 calculate their performance characteristics - those who have not yet made a "long-range" missile, although so much is said about it. I remember Ashurbeyli publicly promised to shoot down the Chelyabinsk meteorite))

      Secondly, what side of the C-400 with the fleet? Is the complex installed on at least one ship?
      With the same success, you can talk about the capabilities of the A-135 "Amur"
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      The point is that such a goal is inhibiting up to 2-3M warhead

      What prevents to increase speed in the final section
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      In order to reduce the issuance of target designation from satellites from 1-2 days to one hour, it was planned to create the Discovery-2 system of 42 EMNIP satellites in geostationary orbits.

      But the Chinese do not need TSU over the entire surface of the Earth
      It is enough for them to have 1 (several) satellites over a given area of ​​the surface - the South China Sea.

      Finally, things like airplanes and ships of RT reconnaissance and submarines - AUG will burn before it barks
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      And each AN / SPY-1 grille provides a viewing sector in 90 degrees both in azimuth and elevation.

      But this will not help Peter. Or Daring - in vain the Britons want to equip him with a third AFAR, looking at the zenith.
      And according to SPY-1, it’s not so simple - in connection with New Threat Response more rays are allocated for the search for NLCs.
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      RL need to REDUCE SPEED to 2-3M. Otherwise, the radar simply does not work.

      simply EARNS. Nothing depends on speed here
  10. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 December 2013 11: 40
    10
    (Continued)
    The point is that such a target - a warhead braking up to 2-3М, flying along a ballistic trajectory, is a completely tidy and even legitimate target for almost any modern (or even not too) air defense system.
    Now the second question
    Target designation

    Then general reasoning begins. In which the most important figure was never (and could not have been) voiced - so how long will it take between the detection of an aircraft carrier and the readiness of the Dongfeng to attack? General reasoning in smart words about
    synthesized aperture active side-scan radars

    they do not replace at all the simple fact like mooing that the Americans, in order to reduce the output of target designation from satellite data from 1-2 days up to one hour planned to create a system "Discovery-2" from 42 EMNIP satellites in geostationary orbits. But they seem to have refused, because the cost is too high. What is an hour? Oleg writes
    Within an hour, the area of ​​the probable location of the AUG will turn into a circle with a radius of 50 kilometers. At the moment, the exact characteristics of the Dongfeng-21D missile seeker are unknown: turn-on altitude, sensitivity, field of view ... can the warhead detect a target that is 50 away from it ... 100 km?

    Laughter parses me. Pershing turns on its radar at the height of FIFTEEN KILOMETERS. Suppose I saw a Pershing radar aircraft carrier 50 km away ... And then what? Call Superman? Is it really not clear that at 15 km of altitude it is simply impossible to correct the point of incidence at 50-100 km?
    But okay, Oleg writes about dongfeng. Maybe he doesn’t turn on the radar at 15 km, but at 50 km — who knows?
    Maybe (although it is more than doubtful, and those who remember at least a school physics course at least in the volume of the 6th grade will understand me). But the point is that in order to turn on the radar, you need to REDUCE THE SPEED to 2-3M. Otherwise, the radar simply won't work. In total, the warhead will turn into a "lame duck" already at an altitude of 50 km, and the same Americans will not have time to get ready for the shooting, but they will also have time to drink coffee before the launch of the anti-missiles :)))
    Although it seems even to Oleg it became clear that
    In any case, the Chinese should hurry

    I will not argue that over-the-horizon radars, with their multi-kilometer antennas, will be disabled at the very beginning of the war. That the Spy satellites still need to dump the data they received on the mainland, and this all happens by no means in real time - against the background of other Oleg’s blunders, these are such trifles, right :)
  11. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 December 2013 11: 40
    12
    (ending)
    But here is one little thing that I just can’t get past
    Multiple salvos with multiple ocean squares increase the chances of success.

    Volley ballistic missile firing from the territory of a nuclear missile power will most likely be recognized as a nuclear missile attack, because launching a ballistic missile with a range of 1,5 thousand kilometers is not too different from launching an ICBM. In other words, a full-scale atomic armageddon may be the answer to such a launch.
    However, what can you not risk in order to kill an aircraft carrier that is hateful to the heart? laughing
    1. Taoist
      Taoist 6 December 2013 12: 31
      +6
      Let's just say, if it comes to the need to put the AUG to the bottom, then all this will no longer matter much. In the event of a serious conflict between the nuclear powers, "vigorous loaves" will fly in any case.

      By the way, another version of the ballistic anti-ship missile system is not being considered - its use from submarines. Here, and the range can be smaller and easier with targeting ... And the interception of 10-12 missiles in a salvo ... this is from the category of "fantasy"
      1. Rus2012
        Rus2012 6 December 2013 12: 44
        +2
        Quote: Taoist
        By the way, another version of ballistic anti-ship missiles is not considered - its use from submarines.

        It is considered, why not :))
        The Soviet Union was also planning the D-13 complex with the P-33 anti-ship missile on the 667B pr.
        And R-27K spent five years in trial operation on the SSBN, etc. 605

        Well, at present, if there is a materiel, then why not, for example, a universal head - UBB is suitable for both Topol-M and Bulava ... :)))
      2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 December 2013 12: 50
        +2
        Quote: Taoist
        Let's just say, if it comes to the need to put the AUG to the bottom, then all this will no longer matter much. In the event of a serious conflict between the nuclear powers, "vigorous loaves" will fly in any case.

        If a serious (that is, a global nuclear missile) conflict arises, then launching an AOG will no longer be necessary.
        Quote: Taoist
        And the interception of 10-12 missiles in a salvo ... this is from the category of "fantasy"

        From the category of science fiction - this is the guidance of 10-12 ballistic missiles at AUG. But shelling 10-12 targets is a documented function of an air defense system
    2. Santa Fe
      6 December 2013 15: 22
      +2
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      Volley ballistic missile firing from the territory of a nuclear missile power will most likely be recognized as a nuclear missile attack

      I think it’s a lot easier, Andrey. The United States will never fight with China.
      Dongfeng is an interesting precedent for AUG vulnerability in modern conditions, because the system has occupied all the upper bands in reports to Congress
      1. Nayhas
        Nayhas 6 December 2013 15: 57
        0
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Dongfeng is an interesting precedent for AUG vulnerability in modern conditions, because the system has occupied all the upper bands in reports to Congress

        Oleg, this is a clear bug that they use as an excuse to get into the US budget. DF-21 without target designation system an empty place. And your reference to the fact that SPY-1 will not see a falling b / h is not correct, it will not be a problem to find it for a destroyer or a cruiser located one kilometer from an aircraft carrier. B / h will have to slow down in order for the GOS to have time to detect the target, select it and trigger it. The GOS itself is vulnerable because it is impossible to cover it with armor and a close detonation of the b / h missile launcher will disable it and the further flight will be uncontrollable.
        1. Santa Fe
          6 December 2013 16: 24
          +2
          Quote: Nayhas
          for a destroyer or cruiser located one kilometer from an aircraft carrier, finding it will not be a problem

          this is not the problem. and in the operation mode of the radar - according to the NTR program, they are focused on the search for low-flying aircraft and anti-ship missiles
          Quote: Nayhas
          B / h will have to slow down in order for the GOS to have time to detect the target, make its selection

          4-5M what will prevent the head from operating at such speeds?
          doubt the speed of modern computers?
          Quote: Nayhas
          The GOS itself is vulnerable because it is impossible to cover with armor

          Well, how to say it is vulnerable))) It withstood a fall from space altitude (ablation removed some of the protection - but, you see, the protection is higher than that of conventional anti-ship missiles)
          Quote: Nayhas
          DF-21 without target designation system is empty.

          Satellite in geostationary orb. over a selected area of ​​the terrain, a constellation of Naval Ocean Surveillance satellites (they will have to be created in any case), patrols of submarines and AWACS aircraft. Optionally - over-the-horizon radars, control centers from civilian "Trojan horses", ground-based RTR reconnaissance stations, etc.
          Few?

          While the task is to transmit the current coordinates with an accuracy of several minutes. Only.
          1. Nayhas
            Nayhas 6 December 2013 16: 38
            -2
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Satellite in geostationary orb. over a selected area of ​​the terrain, a constellation of Naval Ocean Surveillance satellites (they will have to be created in any case), patrols of submarines and AWACS aircraft. Optionally - over-the-horizon radars, control centers from civilian "Trojan horses", ground-based RTR reconnaissance stations, etc.
            Few?

            Well, while China does not have much with this.
            Their naval aviation is rather weak, their range is small. No one really knows about the satellites; with the sub-melting, so far, everything is bad with them too. They have room to grow, and they also have the means to build up. But while the DF-21 is only a scarecrow for the layman. Satellites are rather unstable, optics depend on clouds, radar does not guarantee identification, targeting from a satellite is in my opinion fantastic.
            1. Santa Fe
              6 December 2013 17: 02
              +1
              In China, everything is even very
              18 scouts of the "Yaogan" series launched, in 7 years
              create your own navigation system
              recently sent Lunokhod (Chanye, 1 December 2013 g.)
              Quote: Nayhas
              Their naval aviation is rather weak, their range is small

              moreover, naval aviation. This is the task of the Air Force.
              the Chinese have several thousand aircraft, including the 300 modern Su-30. Purchase of Su-35 is blocked

              Air defense missile system of the PLA (based on IL-76) at the MAX-2013
  12. alex-kon
    alex-kon 6 December 2013 12: 46
    +2
    The memory of the on-board computer contained four reference images of the target area for different heights, recorded in the form of a matrix, each cell of which corresponded to the brightness of a given area in the selected range of radio waves. Comparing the data obtained with the stored radar maps, the warhead determined its current position and the error of the ANN

    That was the main purpose of the construction battalion. While the rocket flew, they quickly changed the terrain. laughing
    1. Rus2012
      Rus2012 6 December 2013 13: 10
      +2
      Quote: alex-kon
      While the rocket flew, they quickly changed the terrain.

      And this was envisaged -
      The radar homing system uses, for example, a one-piece warhead of an American medium-range Pershing missile. This missile is designed specifically for the first, sudden "disarming" attack on our ICBMs.
      In memory of the warhead of this missile, a radar "picture" of the target and the area of ​​its location is laid. When a warhead falls on a target, it scans the earth’s surface all the time, highlighting the desired target against its background, and accordingly adjusts its trajectory. At the same time, corrections are automatically introduced for zooming in connection with the rapid reduction in the distance from the warhead to the target. Radar homing in the final flight phase with a similar target recognition and guidance system is carried out by the American Tomahawk cruise missile.

      Therefore, the logical "our answer to Chamberlain" is to change the radar picture of the area directly in the area of ​​the missile shaft. Moreover, it cannot be changed in advance, even in peacetime: the orbital constellation of the reconnaissance satellites of our “sworn friends” constantly monitors all changes in the area of ​​potential targets, and before launching the Pershing or Tomahawk, the latest intelligence information is stored in his memory. Therefore, the “picture” should change at the very last moment, when the warhead is already flying to the target. Having received a signal from an early warning system about a missile attack, special pyrotechnic devices throw dipoles into the air - wire cuttings and metal foil, creating a cloud impervious to radio waves. As a result, the whole “picture” changes beyond recognition: the picture itself, consisting of bright spots from large objects visible in the radio range, as well as the general radar terrain, changes. As a result, the homing system cannot recognize the object and attach it to the image that is in its memory. The warhead becomes non-homing, and an off-design miss is assured. Of course, it will fall in the region of the target, but at a much greater distance from it than planned by the enemy, and all the damaging factors of the explosion will be taken over by the good old reinforced concrete.

      from here - http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/pub/oborona/oborona.shtml
    2. Reserve buildbat
      Reserve buildbat 7 January 2014 19: 57
      +2
      Only the Strategic Missile Forces quickly change the terrain smile
  13. Rus2012
    Rus2012 6 December 2013 13: 02
    +1
    About Persching-2 ...
    In TTX indicated KVO-50 meters. The Yankees themselves could indicate other data. Just a method for determining the CVO Soviet and they vary. They always love to brag on occasion ...

    108 launchers (120 missiles) for Pershing-2 missiles were deployed on the territory of West Germany at three missile operating bases.
    The Persching-2 rocket was placed on a launcher mounted on a wheeled semitrailer, and was raised to a vertical position before launch. The missile did not have a transport and launch container, and to protect it from the effects of precipitation, dust and dirt, special covers were used.In peacetime, all missiles and equipment, as a rule, were in stationary hangars. It was envisaged, with a transfer to the highest degree of combat readiness, to withdraw them to the wooded areas of Bavaria, where the missile batteries took up launch positions and were preparing to perform combat missions.

    Unlike the foe, domestic "Pioneers" made marches almost quarterly and 1/3 of the total staff was always on alert in field combat starting positions. The remaining 2/3 were on the base station at the points of permanent deployment in "Kroni". And also in a matter of minutes they could shoot directly from these structures ...

    As veterans of the "pioneer leaders" say, the exchange of 108 PU for over 600 PGRK "Pioneer" was clearly unequal ...
  14. Andriuha077
    Andriuha077 6 December 2013 14: 32
    +2
    Some kind of joke, Oleg?
    "This story began exactly 30 years ago. In December 1983 of the year"
    Actually:

    In November 1973 years with a diesel-electric submarine of the Navy the USSR The K-102 launched a ballistic missile, the head of which accurately hit the target ship. The launch was carried out as part of the tests of the D-5 marine missile system. R-27K became the first ever ballistic missile capable of hitting moving surface ships.

    Details can be found on the website.
    1. Santa Fe
      6 December 2013 15: 40
      +1
      Quote: Andriuha077
      "This story began exactly 30 years ago. In December 1983"
      Actually:

      What really

      The R-27K was guided by the radars of enemy ships (like the big Shrike). She did not know how to look for a goal on her own
      Quote: Andriuha077
      R-27K became the first ballistic missile in history capable of hitting moving surface ships.

      If a powerful beacon is installed on the target - why not.
      1. Andriuha077
        Andriuha077 6 December 2013 16: 55
        +2
        Of course, an aircraft carrier is a great phonet. Well, starting with P-29, visual guidance is preferred. Through smoke, clouds, on a standing and silent target. This has now become more compact and even reduced to portable anti-tank.
      2. Andriuha077
        Andriuha077 6 December 2013 16: 55
        0
        Of course, an aircraft carrier is a great phonet. Well, starting with P-29, visual guidance is preferred. Through smoke, clouds, on a standing and silent target. This has now become more compact and even reduced to portable anti-tank.
  15. alex84
    alex84 6 December 2013 14: 43
    0
    And the launch of such a missile will not provoke an automatic missile defense system of nuclear countries? After all, there will not know the nuclear head of this missile or not. In response to such a launch, real nuclear missiles can also be launched. I remember when Bush Jr., the Americans wanted to remove the nuclear head and put the standard one on and launch it from the strategists, but then they refused, because the missile defense system of nuclear countries can take the launch of such a missile as a nuclear attack
  16. Nayhas
    Nayhas 6 December 2013 15: 27
    +2
    Around the same time, data literally blew up the Pentagon from China: Chinese Communists plan to use the new DF-21D as an anti-ship weapon!

    I believe that any news after which the Pentagon supposedly begins to panic is nothing more than a reason to dissolve taxpayers for another couple of billion dollars. Generals in the Pentagon look with white envy at "people in white coats" on whom the state spends four times more, more than 2,2 trillion. dollars!
    The ballistic Dongfeng attacks the victim from the zenith. Outside of the radar survey sector of modern ships, all of them were calculated on threats in the Earth’s atmosphere with a more “gentle” trajectory.

    Well that sounds very stupid. Even if we accept as an axiom that a b / h is flying steeply from above an aircraft carrier, then in relation to an escort cruiser or destroyer this will be at an angle to it, because it goes at a certain distance from the aircraft carrier, in the end the flight path is ballistic ...
    The Chinese anti-ship missile has a simpler task: to isolate a huge 330-meter steel structure against the background of an absolutely identical sea surface. However, the 150-meter destroyer is also difficult to call imperceptible - when viewed from the zenith, all his stealth techniques lose their effectiveness.

    So simple? This would be so if only warships were at sea. But besides them, the sea is literally teeming with fishing trawlers, container ships, tankers and other vessels. And the aircraft carrier is far from the largest representative of maritime shipping. If by optical means there is at least some chance, then radar (meaning radar seeker missiles) is not an option at all. The same applies to coastal over-horizon radars, they can only give out the presence of targets, but it is unrealistic to identify. The same applies to wake detection systems, since there are a lot of these tracks in the sea.

    Container ship of the Emma Mærsk type, length 396,84 m., Width 63,1 m., Displacement 157 thousand tons. Looks like?

    So the high efficiency of anti-ship BRDS is openly contrived. Such a missile needs external guidance, and for this it needs marine reconnaissance aircraft covered by fighters. Those. without the carriers unloved by Oleg in any way.

    PS: By the way, about Pershing 2. BRDS DF-15B, why not Pershing?
    1. Santa Fe
      6 December 2013 15: 33
      0
      Quote: Nayhas
      Such a missile needs external guidance, but for this it needs marine reconnaissance aircraft covered by fighters. Those. without the carriers unloved by Oleg in any way.

      Of course, they cannot fly from the shore
      1. Nayhas
        Nayhas 6 December 2013 15: 45
        +2
        Good afternoon, Oleg.
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Of course, they cannot fly from the shore

        They can, but here it is necessary not only to fly 2 thousand km., But also to patrol, and if necessary, to fight, and also return home to the joy of his wife and son. On average, the patrol time for an AWACS aircraft is 6-8 hours; not a single coastal fighter can cover it for so long at a distance of 1500 km. from the coast, only an aircraft wing from an aircraft carrier located in the same area.
        1. Santa Fe
          6 December 2013 16: 05
          0
          Quote: Nayhas
          no coastal fighter can cover it for so long at a distance of 1500 km. from the coast, only an aircraft wing from an aircraft carrier located in the same area.

          Air tankers not invented either

          The average duration of F-18 flights on the route: AB in the Arabian Sea - flight - 2 hours of duty over the mountains of Afghanistan - return was 10 hours.
          The Yankees, of course, were kidding when they drove their air waffles there - in the same mode they could fly from Al-Dafra, the UAE (which was what the F-15E did). All these were jokes. If it was a serious war, the Yankees could once or twice break the leadership of any Kyrgyzstan or Pakistan (Manas base, etc.)
      2. Rus2012
        Rus2012 6 December 2013 18: 26
        0
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Of course, they cannot fly from the shore

        By the way, Tupolev's "Raven" was planned to be suspended on a carrier;)))
        I drove a couple of kilometers away, let them fly further ...
    2. Rus2012
      Rus2012 6 December 2013 18: 05
      +1
      Quote: Nayhas
      And the aircraft carrier is far from the largest representative of maritime shipping. If by optical means there is at least some chance, then radar (meaning radar seeker missiles) is not an option at all.

      ... Each seagoing ship has its own radar portrait. Both active and passive. Is not it? The higher the irradiation frequency, the more multifactorial ...
    3. Rus2012
      Rus2012 6 December 2013 18: 16
      0
      Quote: Nayhas
      Such a missile needs external guidance, and for this it needs marine reconnaissance aircraft covered by fighters.

      Why exactly "naval reconnaissance aircraft"?
      ZgRLS, passive location systems, active / passive reconnaissance and target designation spacecraft - do you think it is insufficient? Well, let there be strategic UAVs, such as "Raven" Tu for additional reconnaissance and fixing the fact of destruction ...
      Description
      Design Bureau named after A.N. Tupolev
      The designation "Raven"
      Type Reconnaissance UAV
      Dimensions & Weight
      Length, m 13,06
      Wingspan, m 5,8
      Height, m ​​2,08
      Wing area, m2 37
      Weight at the moment of separation, kg 6300
      Mass at the time of separation with an accelerating ramp, kg 14120
      Empty weight, kg 3450
      Mass of fuel, kg 2850
      Power point
      Number of 1 engines
      Propulsion engine ramjet RD-012
      Maximum flight thrust, kgf 1350
      Accelerator thrust, kgf 47500
      flight data
      Flight speed on the route, km / h 3500-3800
      Altitude, m 23000-26400
      Range, km 4600

      It’s clear that according to modern capabilities, the characteristics will be better, well, for example, with the same mass and dimensions, the speed behind the 4-5machine is short-term, the altitude is up to 60km above the target (let's say on a rocket engine)
    4. Rus2012
      Rus2012 6 December 2013 18: 32
      +1
      Quote: Nayhas
      ballistic flight path

      ... unforgettable - quasi-ballistic, because it maneuvers and is aimed at the target, and this is an off-design mode for a missile defense. Inaccuracy in calculating more than 1km at 1000 range-all misses, not enough energy and shunting capabilities of missiles like SM-3 ///
  17. Panikovsky
    Panikovsky 6 December 2013 15: 36
    0
    Uv.Oleg Kaptsov, in addition to fundamental knowledge in the field of military equipment, I would like to note your recognizable literary style from the first paragraph. In this regard, I want to ask who are you by profession?
  18. Pashhenko Nikolay
    Pashhenko Nikolay 6 December 2013 20: 10
    0
    Everything is fine in this rocket. It is only very unlikely that the ships of a potential enemy of China will approach the coasts at a distance of the flight of this rocket. Some have much longer arms.
  19. D_L
    D_L 8 December 2013 23: 57
    0
    China is growing before our eyes!
  20. sumcream56
    sumcream56 10 December 2013 12: 52
    0
    It seems to me better to make a smaller rocket following the example of your Iranian friends - with a range of up to one thousand (1000) km. And let her off the ground effect vehicles. Fortunately, thanks to the Russian designer V. Kolganov and his firm ZAO NPK TREC, the work of the Chinese has made significant progress (smot
    rite trekivolga site) go ahead. And Chinese dreams [media = http: //im2-tub-ru.yandex.net/i? Id = 192438783-29-72 & n = 21В]
  21. psiho117
    psiho117 11 December 2013 17: 29
    0
    But well done Chinese ... do not stand still, conduct a synthesis of Soviet and NATO technologies, refine ideas unfinished in the Union.
    Yes, in its current form, Dongfeng is really just a scarecrow for the US Senate (more than a dollar to the god of the dollar!).
    But modern electronics and industrial espionage can do so much that if the Chinese seriously engage in this topic, then in 5 years we can expect a qualitative breakthrough - for example, ballistic missiles with multiple warheads, a dozen blendes, and a plasma shield from MIG-MFIs, aiming at the target with the help of a multi-band all-weather gsn, and even corrected from a satellite and connected in a "flock" like our Granite.
    After all, the only thing is perseverance and financing - and China can provide both this and that.
  22. Black Raven
    Black Raven 22 December 2013 14: 18
    0
    Quote: USNik
    What will happen in the case of AUG will only show time.


    better not need time to show anything ...
  23. ivan222
    ivan222 2 January 2014 16: 20
    0
    everything comes from discipline. said all done. unfortunately we have a der ... democracy has even come to the army ...
  24. Azaleptin
    Azaleptin 10 September 2014 00: 57
    0
    The Chinese are great! Another would be to compare with our latest developments ... Our "Bastion" is probably not worse?