Military Review

Israel creates subtle shock UAV

2
Currently, several countries of the world are almost publicly engaged in the creation of low-profile UAVs. In particular, the USA is developing the X-47B deck apparatus and is already using RQ-170 Sentinel, the United Kingdom - Taranis, and France - nEUROn. Similar work is also being carried out in China (under the Lijian project). Against the background of such vigorous activity, the silence of one of the largest players in the industry of unmanned systems for a long time caused bewilderment of specialists. Recently, the situation began to clear up.


Currently, Israeli companies are involved in a number of programs related to the development of stealth technologies, conducted mainly in the United States. Including Israel produces wings for the fifth-generation American fighter F-35 Lightning II. Production is carried out at Israel Aerospace Industry (IAI) factories under a contract with Lockheed Martin Corporation. The results obtained can be used in the new generation of unmanned vehicles from Israeli companies.

The need for an unobtrusive Israeli air force drone is extremely high, since the military has to act on the territory of states with varying degrees of prohibition of air access. A few years ago, the Israeli military turned to drones manufacturers and set themselves the task of creating a new generation reconnaissance and drone UAV. According to its parameters, the new device should belong to the heavy class of drones, have take-off weight of more than 20 tons and take on board at least 4 tons of weapons. There were also requirements for flight duration (at least 10 hours), range (3-4 thousands of kilometers) and a high degree of autonomy of action.

Flightglobal, citing an unofficial source in the government of Israel, reports that defense industry enterprises are developing a "large" unmanned aerial vehicle with extensive use of stealth technology in various radar and infrared detection ranges. In addition, it is planned to equip the new UAV with engines based on the E-Fan technology, which will radically reduce its acoustic visibility - this is one of the points of the military demand. Among the projected skills of the new machine is the ability for limited air combat at medium and long range missiles air-to-air missiles, which will allow it to act as a hunter on the enemy's drones.

In particular, the state-owned company Israel Aerospace Industries, which had previously created the large reconnaissance vehicles Heron and Eitan, is developing the drone. According to a source in another publication, Israel has been creating an inconspicuous drone since the mid 2000-s. IAI itself does not comment on this information, which, however, is only an indirect confirmation for those who are familiar with the Israeli “do not confirm or deny” style used in cases when it comes to items of strategic importance. According to analysts, the new machine may enter the ranks of the IDF Air Force in the near future. Of course, it’s far from the fact that it will immediately become public domain, such as the Spike NLOS rocket system, which was classified for about 20 years, or the Jericho rocket series, which are not disclosed to this day.
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  1. Refund_SSSR
    Refund_SSSR 6 December 2013 07: 30
    +4
    The US is developing the X-47B deck vehicle and is already using the RQ-170 Sentinel, the UK is using the Taranis, and France is using the nEUROn. Similar work is also underway in China (under the Lijian project)

    It's sad ... It's sad that there are no Russians on the list.
    We are launching some kind of micro models and are terribly proud of it! Yes buy obsolete arab and israeli
    1. And Us Rat
      6 December 2013 07: 52
      +3
      Quote: We refund_SSSR
      It's sad ... It's sad that there are no Russians on the list.


      There was a project "Skat", even a full-scale model was built, but it was hacked to death, it is still unclear by the way why.

      1. Alexey Prikazchikov
        Alexey Prikazchikov 6 December 2013 20: 50
        +1
        They didn’t hack at least 4 bridges like a ramp !!! UAV. All the info on this program is just hard to classify something to get at all by zeros. And there’s infa (I won’t tell you where) what n7ash want to do right away with the AI, and not like the Americans first muddled the drone itself, and then they will do the AI, or maybe not. Yes, they say that for self-defense they will be equipped with air-to-air weapons. But this is still a rumor in one kb (do not even ask how I found out).
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. paninartem
      paninartem 6 December 2013 10: 03
      0
      And you saw that the Putin government posted on the network a database of all citizens of the CIS and the Russian Federation: phones, addresses, photo and video recordings,
      personal correspondence and much more. By the way, all the data is publicly available, but you can hide your profile if you do not want others to see it.
      Here is a link to that site [media = http: //5u2.ru/a7b]
  2. makarov
    makarov 6 December 2013 07: 50
    +1
    "..with widespread use of stealth technologies in various ranges of radar and infrared detection. .."

    Even in the days of the USSR, research was carried out, and a real result was obtained on the long-range detection of enemy submarines by systems based on new physical principles, namely, "by the smell" of diesel exhaust. Perhaps it is worth restoring this R&D, and even "fastening" it to the existing air defense detection systems. I think even with stealth and noiselessness, the drone will not stop farting with exhaust. Here are all the Israeli denyuzhki in those exhaust and fly out.
  3. Boot under the carpet
    Boot under the carpet 6 December 2013 08: 07
    +3
    Quote: We refund_SSSR
    The US is developing the X-47B deck vehicle and is already using the RQ-170 Sentinel, the UK is using the Taranis, and France is using the nEUROn. Similar work is also underway in China (under the Lijian project)

    It's sad ... It's sad that there are no Russians on the list.
    We are launching some kind of micro models and are terribly proud of it! Yes buy obsolete arab and israeli


    Most of the "innovations" in the creation of shock UAVs are the merit of Soviet scientists who emigrated in difficult years.
    1. Pimply
      Pimply 6 December 2013 10: 07
      +6
      Quote: Boot under the carpet
      Most of the "innovations" in the creation of shock UAVs are the merit of Soviet scientists who emigrated in difficult years.
      I hasten to disappoint, but the share of former Soviet scientists in the Israeli defense industry was striving for zero. More or less only in the last 10 years, they began to appear in some places other than assembly lines.
      The Israeli UAV program began in the early 70s, and technical specialists and engineers are mainly of the local spill, not for nothing that Technion is among the hundred best universities in the world.
  4. Lindon
    Lindon 6 December 2013 08: 08
    0
    USA, UK, China and Israel are developing. And the rest? Why is Russia not mentioned?
    1. olegff68
      olegff68 6 December 2013 12: 37
      +1
      Quote: Lindon
      USA, UK, China and Israel are developing. And the rest? Why is Russia not mentioned?

      What else do you not know?!?! The development and production of drones (aircraft carriers, multipurpose nuclear submarines ... small arms) is a very financially burdensome task that threatens to ruin the budget of the Moscow Region (military-industrial complex, the Russian Federation ... RusNano)
  5. Archikah
    Archikah 6 December 2013 08: 19
    +3
    A heavy UAV is being developed in Russia by Sukhoi. Again Mr. Poghosyan grabbed as much as possible, regardless of whether he would be able to cope with such a task. And as naturally, what could be expected, Poghosyan has already stated. That our drone will be created on the T-50 platform. Those. without further ado - he just takes the cockpit away and the UAV is ready. Of course, there are stealth technologies in the T-50, but this is not at all the level discussed in this article. Poghosyan does not understand this? I really won’t believe it. He is a professional in the field of creating heavy combat aircraft. But UAVs are a slightly different component. And here it would be desirable to connect - at least KB MIG or YAK. But all for yourself, all for yourself. This is the strategy of the head of the UAC. Sad But for these miscalculations, we will soon answer with losses in another. negative
  6. saag
    saag 6 December 2013 08: 33
    +1
    20 tons will perfectly "glow" in the meter range, such a thing will get lost
  7. Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 6 December 2013 10: 12
    +2
    (in disbelief) so why ... do we need such a fool? As for me, it is better to bring the line of "Eitan" to mind.
    1. Ascetic
      Ascetic 6 December 2013 10: 32
      +2
      Quote: Aron Zaavi
      Well, why ... do we need such a fool? As for me it is better to bring the line of "Eitan" to mind.


      The new device in its parameters should belong to the heavy class of drones, have a take-off weight of more than 20 tons and take on board at least 4 tons of weapons. Requirements were also made for the duration of the flight (at least 10 hours), radius of action (3-4 thousand kilometers) and a high degree of autonomy of actions.


      Iran, of course, all the more so in the light of recent political events, others suitable for the terms of reference
      States with varying degrees of prohibition of air access.
      on the horizon is not observed. I think so for the opening and destruction of air defense systems PU BRDSD first of all.
    2. And Us Rat
      6 December 2013 11: 47
      +3
      Quote: Aaron Zawi
      (in disbelief) so why ... do we need such a fool? As for me, it is better to bring the line of "Eitan" to mind.


      Why is the "fool" a generation newer and an order of magnitude more efficient than Eitan in all respects? Weird question. Probably because we don't live in Switzerland? request
      (Especially Eitan is not a stealth)
      1. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 6 December 2013 12: 07
        0
        Quote: And Us Rat

        Why is the "fool" a generation newer and an order of magnitude more efficient than Eitan in all respects? Weird question. Probably because we don't live in Switzerland? request
        (Especially Eitan is not a stealth)

        so I understand we are not talking about a UAV with a jet engine? Then what's the difference? "Eitan" carries up to a ton of payload and is in the air for 36 hours. So improve it. And new UAVs must go supersonic.
        1. And Us Rat
          6 December 2013 15: 20
          0
          so I understand we are not talking about a UAV with a jet engine? Then what's the difference? "Eitan" carries up to a ton of payload and is in the air for 36 hours. So improve it. And new UAVs must go supersonic.


          Most likely it will be reactive, I don’t think that the E-Fan will pull the take-off of 20 tons, the E-Fan will most likely be like a parallel system (like hybrid cars) for barrage or stealth penetration at low altitudes. I think - they rivet something in the style of X-47B, only land-based. Tons of load are apparently small, and supersonic can also be if the jet is jet. Wait and see - if they rivet, then it’s necessary wink
    3. atalef
      atalef 6 December 2013 15: 31
      +1
      Quote: Aaron Zawi
      (in disbelief) so why ... do we need such a fool? As for me, it is better to bring the line of "Eitan" to mind.

      Abs absolutely agree with you. For us it’s a waste of money. UAVs with a radius of 3-4 t. Kilometers. What for ?
      1. And Us Rat
        6 December 2013 17: 37
        +2
        Quote: atalef
        Abs absolutely agree with you. For us it’s a waste of money. UAVs with a radius of 3-4 t. Kilometers. What for ?


        Because this is the future, at the first stage, exclude manned aircraft from air-to-ground missions and leave it solely for air superiority, and secondly, this is a step towards unmanned fighters for air-to-air missions, which may well appear in 15 -20 years. Those who do not go forward risk being left behind. Adopted or not, this is the tenth case, but the technology demonstrator must be assembled and tested, I believe. (The same skeptics at one time said about Lavi, but many technologies from the project were later used)
      2. igor67
        igor67 6 December 2013 17: 47
        +1
        Quote: atalef
        Quote: Aaron Zawi
        (in disbelief) so why ... do we need such a fool? As for me, it is better to bring the line of "Eitan" to mind.

        Abs absolutely agree with you. For us it’s a waste of money. UAVs with a radius of 3-4 t. Kilometers. What for ?

        Sanya agrees, the defense army seems to be, but 3-4 thousand is already no defense, it would be better if grandmothers invested in new jobs, otherwise they just close the enterprises and transfer them from China to Vietnam or Jordan am
        1. Ascetic
          Ascetic 6 December 2013 18: 57
          +1
          Quote: igor67
          otherwise they just close the enterprises and transfer them either to China or Vietnam or to Jordan


          NOVATEK will operate on offshore fields in Israel. On Friday, Avigdor Lieberman, Israeli Foreign Minister and co-chair of the Russian-Israeli intergovernmental commission on trade and economic cooperation, learned that Gazprom was inferior to potential Israeli shelf projects in the Mediterranean Sea to another Russian producer concern - NOVATEK. Agreement with Israel involves laying a pipeline towards Cyprus along the seabed, as well as construction of LNG facilities (production of liquefied natural gas). The constructed pipeline will allow the southwestern Asian state to export gas to Europe. Another topic discussed in the Russian-Israeli negotiations was the supply of Russian oil and the implementation of joint projects in the field of alternative energy. However, no concrete steps were taken; decision-making was postponed to the next 2014 year.
          link
          Here are new jobs for you, and in 2015. 5% lower the price of water for us, the average income of the buyer of an apartment in Tel Aviv is 57 thousand shekels a month. It’s almost half a million rubles. We don’t have such salaries. And you complain, jobs ... are being deduced .. With salaries like that. I have won 7000 shekels for yours with all business trips and bonuses and a pension of 2500 ... And when I found out that in electric and water companies the average salary is 18243 shekels .... what Our minister does not get so much.
          1. igor67
            igor67 6 December 2013 19: 51
            +1
            [quote = Ascetic] [quote = igor

            then I have stanislav sn less. plus our factory is being closed and they will be transporting coffee there from Vietnam for 10 bucks a month.
            1. Ascetic
              Ascetic 6 December 2013 20: 00
              +2
              Quote: igor67
              plus our factory is being closed and they will be transporting coffee there from Vietnam for 10 bucks a month.


              We have a technician in a helicopter club = "Aerosoyuz" in Yakhroma, a salary of about 6000 shekels is required plus compensation for meals and bonuses. Helicopters of Augusta, Robinson, Belly, Eurocopter and I don’t know what’s called

              1. igor67
                igor67 6 December 2013 20: 11
                0
                [quote = Ascetic] [quote = igor67] plus our factory is being closed and they will be carrying coffee from Vietnam for 10 bucks a month. [/ quote]

                We have a technician in a helicopter club = "Aerosoyuz" in Yakhroma, a salary of about 6000 shekels is required plus compensation for meals and bonuses. Helicopters of Augusta, Robinson, Belly, Eurocopter and I don’t know what’s called

                thanks. sincerely thanks
                1. Ascetic
                  Ascetic 6 December 2013 20: 26
                  +3
                  Quote: igor67
                  thanks. sincerely thanks

                  Now I’m watching Pashkov’s report about Israel. More precisely, about Gaydamak who returned from a Swiss prison, only who is interested in him in Russia to show on the federal channel ... Although the chairman of KEROR means a pimple.


                  Recently, they put the navigation equipment there and found out. And we also have a helicopter taxi, you pay 1000-2000 dollars per hour. and you fly to inspect the suburban Switzerland of New Jerusalem = Zagorsk-Zvenigorod.
                  At Robinson cheaper at Eurocopter more expensive.
                  New Jerusalem


                  View of Istra
              2. Ptah
                Ptah 6 December 2013 22: 46
                +2
                This is the familiar "heliport" Douglas MD-520.
                ф

                Bundasia is full of MD-600 (900) police officers.
                Very quiet and agile.
                йй


                alljets.ru/content/md-600n
          2. alone
            alone 6 December 2013 23: 20
            0
            Quote: Ascetic
            Our minister does not get so much.


            why does the minister need such an amount? he has enough stolen goods.
        2. Ascetic
          Ascetic 6 December 2013 20: 16
          +4
          Quote: igor67
          defense army


          In general, this term is political cunning. A priori, no army in the world is a defense army in the full sense of the word. Defense is a loss of strategic initiative and, as a result, defeat or heavy losses in the struggle to return this initiative. In modern warfare, this is unacceptable. The army has the advantage of a more diverse and high-quality set of offensive weapons. It is shock and offensive weapons that are designed to fight for strategic initiative, and not defensive missions.
          1. igor67
            igor67 6 December 2013 21: 48
            +3
            [quote = Ascetic] [quote = igor67] army of defense [/
            Gaydamak earned his billions in Africa, most likely with a second Jew like Bout, but as a person he is at least not bad, organized a camp for the inhabitants of the north in 2006 during the war, though his government didn’t stroked, they said that such events should be organized by state structures, but after all, Mr. Putin didn’t. The drones are constantly hanging and buzzing overhead, it’s practically invisible, only by the sound you can determine where it is like a camara annoying, so you need to make a noiseless radius, then what’s the radius for three or more thousand kilometers, except for export, probable enemies and so they are within a radius of several hundred km, again (for Israel) under agreements with neighboring states, there are no serious military units along the border, even the Syrians do not have tanks there, then why such a machine ?. If only there was no stagnation in the scientific sector,? !! Most likely, the Air Force is likely to be still the Air Force with their number for such a territory, tanks and armored personnel carriers are still defensive, except that the submarines ordered in Germany are again not very popular. Yes, and the Jordan River, of course, does not compare with Istra, but in 40 degree heat and in cold water!
            1. Ascetic
              Ascetic 6 December 2013 22: 18
              +4
              But we have crocodiles in Istra, and fishing ... though now I am getting out into wilder places. In the Moscow region, only reservoirs are not leased to which it is impossible to pass because of the fences of "garden non-profit partnerships". Where there are none yet, they will soon be.

              1. igor67
                igor67 6 December 2013 23: 25
                +1
                [quote = Ascetic] But we have crocodiles in Istra. And fishing ... though now I am getting out into wilder places. In the Moscow region, only reservoirs are not leased to which it is impossible to pass because of the fences of "garden non-profit partnerships". Where there are none yet, they will soon be.

                I’m sorry for the crocodile, they froze it, we didn’t have fishing this year, mostly catfish, I didn’t peck carp, they’ve gone like butter, tomorrow I’ll go to the forest,
                1. igor67
                  igor67 6 December 2013 23: 35
                  +3
                  Somiki, took pictures on the phone, their ear is good drinks
            2. Ascetic
              Ascetic 6 December 2013 22: 33
              +1
              Quote: igor67
              tanks and armored personnel carriers are still defensive,

              Well, tanks were never a defensive weapon. Or the term strategic nuclear forces that was coined recently. In fact, in all documents and treaties they appear as strategic offensive arms (for weapons) or SNA (for troops). The word Offensive also disappeared.
            3. And Us Rat
              7 December 2013 08: 37
              +2
              Quote: igor67
              unless the submarines ordered in Germany, and again were not very popular


              And where are such conclusions? Just because their activities are not advertised? Then why are their fleets expanding from 3 to 6?
              And by the way, Iran, nuclear Islamic Pakistan, and supplying our enemies with weapons and missile technology, North Korea is much further than a couple of hundred kilometers.
              The long-range UAV is needed for the same reason that the range of the Jericho rockets in the 3 generation was improved to almost intercontinental. Tell me what is the reason, or have you already understood? wink
              1. igor67
                igor67 7 December 2013 13: 42
                +2
                Quote: And Us Rat
                Quote: igor67
                unless the submarines ordered in Germany, and again were not very popular


                And where are such conclusions? Just because their activities are not advertised? Then why are their fleets expanding from 3 to 6?
                And by the way, Iran, nuclear Islamic Pakistan, and supplying our enemies with weapons and missile technology, North Korea is much further than a couple of hundred kilometers.
                The long-range UAV is needed for the same reason that the range of the Jericho rockets in the 3 generation was improved to almost intercontinental. Tell me what is the reason, or have you already understood? wink

                About North Korea, by the way, can you remember the scandal? Who supplied the rubberized tracks for tanks and infantry fighting vehicles, Israel, that I don’t really understand in politics, but I can clearly see how the civilian sector is dying, how many ordinary citizens have already lost their jobs this year? How many factories have moved to China? I’ll be useless with these missiles if I don’t have a job, again, how can I believe in a bright future in the USSR I have a street in Safed in Safed, almost all of which is populated by orthodox people, well, they don’t work, don’t pay taxes, go abroad, can they protect them? Well then, yes. .
                1. And Us Rat
                  7 December 2013 13: 46
                  +1
                  Quote: igor67
                  again as in the USSR


                  Not like in the USSR, there were no half a billion who wanted to come to your house and cut off your child’s head for being yahud and kafir.
                2. And Us Rat
                  7 December 2013 13: 52
                  +2
                  Quote: igor67
                  almost all are already populated by orthodox


                  This gesheft will not last forever when there are no ways to financially get out of politicians - penguins will be driven to kicks when they begin to pose themselves as a momentary strategic threat to the budget system. In the meantime, nothing can be done - nobody has canceled the tolerance yet.
                  (It’s my will - they would have planted the Negev yesterday in orderly rows)
                  1. igor67
                    igor67 7 December 2013 15: 13
                    0
                    Quote: And Us Rat
                    Quote: igor67
                    almost all are already populated by orthodox


                    This gesheft will not last forever when there are no ways to financially get out of politicians - penguins will be driven to kicks when they begin to pose themselves as a momentary strategic threat to the budget system. In the meantime, nothing can be done - nobody has canceled the tolerance yet.
                    (It’s my will - they would have planted the Negev yesterday in orderly rows)

                    Yes, no one will drive the penguins to work as a buddy, such money is spinning there, plus all our politicians are afraid of the wrath of the rabbis, but how do you like in our democratic country for the refusal of the mother to circumcise his son with a rabbinical court (Sharia court laughing ) awarded her a fine for each day of deferring 500 shekels, the woman said that she was not religious and did not want to circumcise, but there is always, but if the secular court now really confirms the decision of the religious (and this is in a democratic country) she will fly in full and this is just a small example, if you remember a man stayed in prison by the decision of the same Rabbinic court for 20 years, nonsense,
                    1. atalef
                      atalef 7 December 2013 15: 22
                      +1
                      Quote: igor67
                      Yes, no one will chase penguins work buddy

                      Igoryanich, they themselves will go - everyone wants to eat

                      Quote: igor67
                      such money is spinning there,

                      Not at all

                      Quote: igor67
                      and how do you like in our democratic country for the mother’s refusal to circumcise her son, the rabbinic court (Sharia court) awarded her a fine of 500 shekels for each day of deferment

                      Everything is much more complicated there. This is about the divorce proceedings and the mother just wants to take revenge on her religious father - you know, circumcision is the cornerstone of Judaism - and it's just a family showdown

                      Quote: igor67
                      if you remember a man spent in prison by the decision of the same rabbinic court for 20 years, nonsense,

                      Not nonsense, you know why, he did not give a divorce, and without the consent of a man - there will be no divorce, and undiluted - of course, he cannot live a normal life (including property problems) and get married again. Therefore, he was sent to prison until he agrees to a divorce --- a stubborn fellow. Many usually agree in a month or two.
                    2. And Us Rat
                      7 December 2013 15: 26
                      0
                      Quote: igor67
                      for mother’s refusal to circumcise her son


                      Amendment, a claim put forward by the father of the child, there would be no suit - the rabbis could fall to the feeding trough, and their verdict is a recommendation, nothing more, and does not oblige anyone, and the secular court will send them with a forest,
                      1. forced surgical intervention without the consent of the patient or guardian is illegal,
                      2. to indicate who is the boss in the house,
                      3. and if only because it’s in trend now - to cut gesheft penguins. bully
                      1. igor67
                        igor67 7 December 2013 16: 04
                        +1
                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        Quote: igor67
                        for mother’s refusal to circumcise her son


                        Amendment, a claim put forward by the father of the child, there would be no suit - the rabbis could fall to the feeding trough, and their verdict is a recommendation, nothing more, and does not oblige anyone, and the secular court will send them with a forest,
                        1. forced surgical intervention without the consent of the patient or guardian is illegal,
                        2. to indicate who is the boss in the house,
                        3. and if only because it’s in trend now - to cut gesheft penguins. bully

                        In a democratic state, which we are, or at least in all forums and so on, our politicians say so, should disputes be resolved by a legal court, not religious Sharia, and how then do we differ from the same Saudi or Iranian? Judaism, as I say at work all the time, says majgiah is the observance of traditions, traditions and not laws of obligations
                      2. atalef
                        atalef 7 December 2013 16: 16
                        +2
                        Quote: igor67
                        In a democratic state, which we are, or at least in all forums and so on, our politicians say so, should disputes be resolved by a legal court, not religious Sharia, and how then do we differ from the same Saudi or Iranian?

                        In Israel, no one or two times a civil court overturned court decisions (for Jews - Rabbinic, for Christians - I don’t know how their courts are, for Muslims - Sharia) You know that in Israel these courts only know about marriage and that’s it.
                        In Iran, Saudi Arabia and Egypt and other countries, the Sharia court is in charge of the whole spectrum from criminal and property to family relations.
                        If you got married through rabbis, Islamic or Christian services, then you don’t fall under their judicial system. As thousands of Israelis do, and even then all their family disputes are resolved in an ordinary court.
                      3. igor67
                        igor67 7 December 2013 16: 25
                        +1
                        Quote: atalef
                        Quote: igor67
                        In a democratic state, which we are, or at least in all forums and so on, our politicians say so, should disputes be resolved by a legal court, not religious Sharia, and how then do we differ from the same Saudi or Iranian?

                        In Israel, no one or two times a civil court overturned court decisions (for Jews - Rabbinic, for Christians - I don’t know how their courts are, for Muslims - Sharia) You know that in Israel these courts only know about marriage and that’s it.
                        In Iran, Saudi Arabia and Egypt and other countries, the Sharia court is in charge of the whole spectrum from criminal and property to family relations.
                        If you got married through rabbis, Islamic or Christian services, then you don’t fall under their judicial system. As thousands of Israelis do, and even then all their family disputes are resolved in an ordinary court.

                        Sanya, I do not mind, but if a person got married through a rabbinic, and then became an atheist, well, he doesn’t want to live according to religion, but does the sword hang over him for the rest of his life?
                      4. atalef
                        atalef 7 December 2013 16: 44
                        +2
                        Quote: igor67
                        Sanya, I don’t mind, but if a person got married through a rabbi, and then became an atheist,

                        We are often responsible for decisions made in our youth.

                        Quote: igor67
                        and then he became an atheist, well, he doesn’t want to live according to religion, but does the sword turn out to hang over him for the rest of his life?

                        Why, a divorce sword or what? agree with your wife and decide in a regular court, but you can’t agree - in general, divorce is a problem, and for both, and when both sides start playing stubbornly, the only ones who like it are the lawyers.
                        By the way, imagine the reverse process, a man married a civilian (not through rabbis marriage) and became religious. According to his notions, they didn’t have a marriage at all, and once she was brought to court on him - a civilian notice - and he seemed to not recognize him - according to his current convictions, there was no marriage as such (well, like in the church not married). So what ?
                        The problem is therefore, before you get married you need to think about where, how and through what. That then would not be excruciatingly painful.
          2. And Us Rat
            7 December 2013 14: 02
            +2
            Quote: igor67
            how many ordinary citizens have already lost their jobs this year


            According to statistics - less than they found, and in general - who wants to work - finds work, not justification. Enraging me in the oligimy of small-town, too quickly forgot all the bad and got used to the good.
            My father - a construction engineer, when we arrived - huddled in the closet, and another construction engineer lived in the next.
            So - today, after my father’s 20 + years, my father has his own successful engineering and architectural bureau, and our neighbor still lives in that closet, aching like everything is bad, but he’s not even learned the Hebrew for these 20 years. The civilian sector does not die, but modernizes, it is often a cruel process that leaves those who do not know how to adapt overboard, but the alternative is a stagnation in development, then the civilian sector will surely die after it loses its competitiveness even against banana republics.
            1. igor67
              igor67 7 December 2013 14: 26
              0
              Quote: And Us Rat
              Quote: igor67
              how many ordinary citizens have already lost their jobs this year


              According to statistics - less than they found, and in general - who wants to work - finds work, not justification. Enraging me in the oligimy of small-town, too quickly forgot all the bad and got used to the good.
              My father - a construction engineer, when we arrived - huddled in the closet, and another construction engineer lived in the next.
              So - today, after my father’s 20 + years, my father has his own successful engineering and architectural bureau, and our neighbor still lives in that closet, aching like everything is bad, but he’s not even learned the Hebrew for these 20 years. The civilian sector does not die, but modernizes, it is often a cruel process that leaves those who do not know how to adapt overboard, but the alternative is a stagnation in development, then the civilian sector will surely die after it loses its competitiveness even against banana republics.

              But whoever wants to find a job, but to a minimum and without any additions, here’s how to live with a minimum of adult children and loans now, it’s not possible, further, there is such garbage practicing now from a boar, a team of Arabs working for a minimum and requiring neither What social additives, surcharges for overtime, even in factories related to military production, plus not all Jews are doctors and engineers, hard workers, age is another problem, what kind of adaptation are you talking about? Perhaps you live in the center of the country where industry is concentrated, in the north of the country of industry zilch, here is our factory Kofe Elit, ordered to live long, all because it is impossible to turn off production on Shabbat, it’s not profitable, you asked rabbis, you can’t be kosher, that's all is the coffee that is being delivered now from abroad kosher, nonsense? !!, there the factories don’t stop for the weekend, and they don’t make kashrut shops, but it turns out that you can print the kosher
            2. atalef
              atalef 7 December 2013 14: 30
              +3
              Quote: And Us Rat
              According to statistics - less than they found, and in general - who wants to work - finds work, not justification.
              It is clear that you have to look for her, however - this does not mean that these people are easy.

              Quote: And Us Rat
              Enrages me in the oligility of small-town, too quickly forgot all the bad and got used to the good

              To do this, it is absolutely not necessary to plunge back into d ... mo every 5-7 years, and it does not make sense to thank endlessly and fight in ecstasy, just because it was worse there

              Quote: And Us Rat
              My father - a construction engineer, when we arrived - huddled in the closet, and another construction engineer lived in the next.

              Yes, everyone went through it

              Quote: And Us Rat
              and our neighbor still lives in that closet, aching like everything is bad, but even Hebrew has been wise for these 20 years .. he didn’t really learn.

              There are some, but talk about something else. There are people who want to work, but in their area and because of the age of work, there is simply no. Of course, no one will whine, but understanding that you have to change your place of residence and get used to another team is far from ice

              Quote: And Us Rat
              , leaving those who do not know how to adapt,

              Those who do not know how to adapt are the same people, and often at the age of 50 and beyond, this is simply not real. And until retirement another 20 years request

              Quote: And Us Rat
              but the alternative is a stagnation in development, then the civilian sector will surely die after it loses competitiveness even against banana republics.

              This is understandable, unfortunately many of us are just cogs in this process and often are thrown into the trash - along with an improperly upgraded part
              1. And Us Rat
                7 December 2013 15: 39
                -1
                Quote: atalef
                this does not mean that these people are easy.

                But does anyone have a Signed Guarantee from the Lord God that life is an easy thing? request

                and it makes no sense to thank endlessly and fight in ecstasy

                As well as sitting on the railroad station, spewing out a continuous stream of complaints and scolding, those who feel really bad take and leave, and the rest are just whiners by nature. am

                Those who do not know how to adapt are the same people, and often at the age of 50 and beyond

                There is nothing to do with age, there are people who adapt in 80, and some from birth are worthless drones. negative

                This is understandable, unfortunately many of us are just cogs in this process and often throw in the trash

                Yes, it's a pity - let's all take hold of the hands and cry together, maybe the realities of this world will change a bit from this. crying
                1. atalef
                  atalef 7 December 2013 15: 48
                  +2
                  Quote: And Us Rat
                  But does anyone have a Signed Guarantee from the Lord God that life is an easy thing?

                  Of course not, but realizing it doesn’t make it easier
                  Quote: And Us Rat
                  As well as sitting on the railroad station, spewing out a continuous stream of complaints and scolding, those who feel really bad take and leave, and the rest are just whiners by nature.

                  You do not have to be so categorical and when you are 50 (- +) you will not be so harsh in judgments.

                  Quote: And Us Rat
                  There is nothing to do with age, there are people who adapt in 80, and some from birth are worthless drones.

                  do not go to extremes. The reality is that for a person aged 45 (+) in the Israeli labor market (if you are not a genius, a unique profession or a cool specialist), finding a job (with a decent salary and conditions) is quite difficult

                  Quote: And Us Rat
                  Yes, it's a pity - let's all take hold of the hands and cry together, maybe the realities of this world will change a bit from this.

                  The realities will not change, but let's consider the difficulties in finding a job, paying bills and the morale of the dismissed person. This is the same reality and you have to live with it.
                2. And Us Rat
                  8 December 2013 00: 36
                  +2
                  Golden words - "this is reality and you have to live with it", and from the fact that we poke and paw - it will not change, and it will not become easier for anyone either, I went through the bankruptcy of an esek 4 years ago, because of the bankruptcy of a client, I got divorced against this background with his wife, and then silently clenching his teeth, he plowed in his profession for 2.5 years for 12-14 hours a day and with one day off a month, closed his tails, saved up money and started all over again, and I didn't whine to anyone, because I knew - that by and large nobody cares about it, and will not change anything. Who wants - is looking for opportunities, and who does not want - reasons, if someone lost his job and decided that he was in trouble - let him tell this to a homeless African orphan girl dying of AIDS due to gang rape and at the same time begging to feed her little brother my legs were blown off. am
                  And minus thanks, that this stupid rating would be my biggest problem in this life am
                3. atalef
                  atalef 8 December 2013 00: 43
                  +1
                  nobody will feel any easier either, 4 years ago I went through the bankruptcy of the SSEC, because of the bankruptcy of the client, I divorced my wife against this background, and then silently gritted my teeth I plowed on My profession for 2.5 years, 12-14 hours a day and with one day off a month , closed his tails, saved up money and started all over again, and I didn’t whine about this because I knew that by and large it doesn’t interest anyone, and nothing will change. Who wants to - is looking for opportunities, and who does not want - reasons if someone has lost his job and decided that he therefore has trouble

                  That's about it, you can’t relax-- you know why. It’s easy to be strong - when you are strong in life, but not all people are strong - but they, too, have the right to a decent life,
                  We don’t understand many problems, because I myself never asked for anything and achieved everything myself, and I continue to work for 12-14 hours, or even more, but I can understand others and idlers, it’s just difficult sometimes for people and not at all their fault, but in general respect to you hi
                4. And Us Rat
                  8 December 2013 01: 47
                  0
                  Quote: atalef
                  It's easy to be strong ...


                  Nothing of the kind, the easiest way is to be weak, blame the "unjust world" for everything, never take responsibility for anything, and go with the flow like g .. but in an ice hole. But being strong is hard work, sometimes so much that you want to howl. And for the core in the spine, I can only say thank you to the army - they have firmly hammered into their heads one simple truth: "If not me, then who?" And this is how life is.
              2. igor67
                igor67 8 December 2013 22: 20
                0
                Quote: And Us Rat
                Golden words - "this is reality and you have to live with it", and from the fact that we poke and paw - it will not change, and it will not become easier for anyone either, I went through the bankruptcy of an esek 4 years ago, because of the bankruptcy of a client, I got divorced against this background with his wife, and then silently clenching his teeth, he plowed in his profession for 2.5 years for 12-14 hours a day and with one day off a month, closed his tails, saved up money and started all over again, and I didn't whine to anyone, because I knew - that by and large nobody cares about it, and will not change anything. Who wants - is looking for opportunities, and who does not want - reasons, if someone lost his job and decided that he was in trouble - let him tell this to a homeless African orphan girl dying of AIDS due to gang rape and at the same time begging to feed her little brother my legs were blown off. am
                And minus thanks, that this stupid rating would be my biggest problem in this life am

                I put the minus, that the respected one has taken you to the wrong steppe, therefore the wife left you too, because I'm sorry and the nickname matches you, you are our army, and I have responsibility for the wife of the parents' children and father-in-law, when you find out what responsibility for the neighbor, and not for money, then you will become a person, not a businessman, and for 12 hours, in my opinion, everyone in Israel works and not in their specialties am
              3. And Us Rat
                9 December 2013 02: 03
                +1
                Quote: igor67
                I put the minus, that the respected one has taken you to the wrong steppe, therefore the wife left you too, because I'm sorry and the nickname matches you, you are our army, and I have responsibility for the wife of the parents' children and father-in-law, when you find out what responsibility for the neighbor, and not for money, then you will become a person, not a businessman, and for 12 hours, in my opinion, everyone in Israel works and not in their specialties


                Petty, disappointed. This is my life and my opinion - whoever does not like my opinion, let it be kind enough not to meddle in my life. As far as I remember, no one has yet introduced totalitarianism in our country, and I am not obliged to adhere to any "party" points of view, and I know perfectly well what responsibility for my neighbor is, which is why I am trying to achieve more in this life, but don't give a shit about my opinion those who think about themselves that they have the right to teach others how to think and how to live. And it's not for YOU to lecture me. And if you please do not be rude to me in the future. negative
  • And Us Rat
    7 December 2013 08: 24
    0
    Quote: Ascetic
    In general, this term is political cunning. A priori, no army in the world is a defense army in the full sense of the word. Defense is a loss of strategic initiative and, as a result, defeat or heavy losses in the struggle to return this initiative. In modern warfare, this is unacceptable. The army has the advantage of a more diverse and high-quality set of offensive weapons. It is shock and offensive weapons that are designed to fight for strategic initiative, and not defensive missions.


    Absolutely right 100
    1. Thunderbolt
      Thunderbolt 7 December 2013 08: 39
      +1
      A war of terms, that's all. Japan's self-defense forces hone amphibious operations. belayThe Foreign Ministries and the General Staffs of neighboring countries treat such measures at least neutrally, respectfully ... here the main thing is to see everyone with binoculars. If they give it to you bully
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