Military Review

Discussion of the implementation of the state defense order. Why without Rogozin, why without Shoigu? ..

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Last week, Russian President Vladimir Putin in Sochi held a series of meetings devoted to the consideration of issues relating to state defense orders and the general state of the Armed Forces. The theme of the first meeting (from November 27 2013 of the year) was directly related to the development of the Strategic Missile Forces.




The topic is definitely important. It is also important that the initiator of the raising of this topic for discussion is the president of Russia, and therefore the meeting should not be similar to the status of a sort of “near-defense mezhdosboychik”. However, from the very first personnel of the broadcast of the meeting in Sochi, people who are interested in the essence of the problems of the state defense order have some questions. And, perhaps, the main question: why is not among those invited by the president to this meeting:

a) Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, who is called upon by the government to supervise all issues related to the defense order,
b) Minister of Defense Sergei Shoigu, acting as the chief official of the ministry, who is the direct customer of the new military equipment and weapons.

Discussion of the implementation of the state defense order. Why without Rogozin, why without Shoigu? ..


It was especially strange because the meeting was the first one, and therefore, by definition, it should have been of high significance. There was a high significance, but the absence of the above-mentioned officials in the office set aside for discussing the supply of new weapons systems to the Strategic Missile Forces in Sochi was alarming, so to say.

From the military department, the commander of the Strategic Missile Forces, Colonel-General Sergei Karakaev, from industrialists, for example, Vladimir Degtyar, Director General (he is the Chief Designer) of the State Medical Center “Design Bureau named after Akademik Makeyev”, attended the meeting.

Before discussing the topic, Vladimir Putin noted that he had brought together two parties (customers and executors of the state defense order) to find out the main points of the implementation of the plans outlined earlier in the working productive conversation and to clarify how fast the customer finances and how clearly the obligations are fulfilled directly by industrialists.

Vladimir Putin:
Today’s meeting we will begin a series of meetings on the implementation of the state defense order, and I propose to look at this problem more broadly. Namely, I would like to hear from the chief designers and the commanders of the respective types and types of troops during these meetings: from the civilian part - how the customer formulates his order, how stable this order is, how the funding goes, how rhythmically, how administrative support is provided; I would like to hear from the military how the industry copes with its tasks, whether everything is done on time, whether the products are of proper quality.


So, the discussion of the situation with the implementation of the state defense order (segment of the Strategic Missile Forces) took place without, in fact, the main government officials responsible for its implementation. They did not participate in the meeting on the supply of new weapons systems in the Navy (in particular, the development of nuclear submarine forces), which was also held on November 27 in Sochi.



Meetings of this type continued the next day. The third meeting was devoted to the implementation of the state defense order in the segment of the Russian Air Force. And again an interesting point - the absence of Dmitry Rogozin and Sergey Shoigu at the meeting. Here the military department was represented by Commander-in-Chief of the Air Force, Lieutenant-General Viktor Bondarev.



Discussion of the situation on the development of the aerospace defense system (aerospace defense) from 28 in November 2013



Meeting to create high-precision weapons from 29 November 2013 of the year



Meeting on the development of the orbital grouping of military and dual-purpose spacecraft from November 29 2013.



As you can see, the situation is the same everywhere - the Minister of Defense and the relevant Deputy Prime Minister are not invited to the meetings.
In this connection, the preliminary commentary on the issue of “state-defense” meetings by the press secretary of the Russian President Dmitry Peskov looked even more strange. He said that such a meeting in the coming days will become the norm, and that they will be attended by both Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin. But, as we have already noticed, we were not present ...

The meeting held by the President and the Ministry of Defense itself, ignored the last news on its official website at the beginning of the Sochi meeting, the Minister of Defense 26 November took part in the Russian-Italian interstate consultations (with the Italian Minister of Defense Mario Mauro) in Trieste. And not a word about the consideration of problems with the implementation of state defense orders ...

Dmitry Rogozin 27 November informs readers of his microblog that quote: “Vladimir Putin is listening to general designers and military leaders” in Sochi, at the same time, for some reason without clarifying the reasons why he himself (Dmitry Rogozin) was not at the meeting.

It can be assumed that both Dmitry Rogozin and Sergey Shoigu eventually (after holding a meeting on the state defense order under the president without their participation) received all the materials in writing, in the form of, let's say, lengthy reports, and that all these materials were in front of others meetings, they will certainly study and draw the appropriate conclusions. But even if it was (will be), why is everything so complicated? After all, even in the most ordinary office, any meeting is held only when there is what is called a quorum and, most importantly, those who are directly in control of the situation and are responsible for solving the issues raised.

In other words, if it is discussed, for example, the question of how urban schools are equipped, then inviting separately the directors of these schools and the representatives of the teaching staff without inviting a person in the city administration in charge of the situation with local education is somewhat strange. No - you can, of course, discuss everything, having come to some conclusions and decisions, and without this official. But what will be the effectiveness of the decisions made in this case? Of course, it can be assumed that this official was unwell, and therefore he could not participate in the meeting, but in this case it would still be more expedient to wait for him to close the sick-list.

Although, according to available information, neither the Minister of Defense, nor in charge of military-industrial complex issues and the direct implementation of the state defense order, did the deputy chairman of the government go to the hospital. And if so, then what was their absence connected with, and how effective was the meeting under the president, which was held without their direct participation?

This question is indirectly answered by Vladimir Putin himself. He states that he would like to discuss issues related to the implementation of plans for the state defense order with the commanders-in-chief of the Armed Forces, commanders of military branches and military industrialists, hinting that he himself (without any intermediaries) is going to put together a base of opinions on the rearmament of the Russian army and draw your own conclusion based on these expert opinions. By holding meetings in this format, Putin demonstrates that he is not going to take up the situation with the course of modernization of the Armed Forces solely on the basis of reports that representatives of relevant government structures put on his table. What a sin to conceal, a considerable number of Russian citizens are well acquainted with how often the reflection of the situation in the reports of officials is far from the real situation. The majority of officials in our country are confident that their task is not to reflect the objective reality, but to report to their superiors without fail on the “successes”. If there is success, it’s excellent, and if there is no success, we’ll think it up, we concoct it ...

Putin made it clear that the notions, excuse me, “do not kill,” and that he himself will conduct a thorough monitoring of the situation with the state defense order. Well, at least I would like it to be that way ...

Is it possible in this connection to say that Putin does not trust those who are responsible for overseeing the defense order in the government? Well, here is the only way: trust, but verify. That, as they say, is ours.

By the way, 29 of November and Dmitry Rogozin and Sergey Shoigu still appear at the meeting with the president. Both the Deputy Ministers of Defense, the Minister of Industry and Trade Denis Manturov, and other members of the government appear here. Putin speaks to them as if he is trying to explain that the cunning will not work, that he himself, after a series of meetings, is aware of all the issues on the implementation of the state defense order, is aware of the real situation with the rearmament of the RF Armed Forces.



Vladimir Putin:

The conversation was principled and sometimes even, as they say in such cases, impartial, but we always proceeded from one thing only: from the fact that the assigned tasks should be solved, solved effectively and in the necessary time frame for the country.
We will continue to work in this composition in the future. I ask you, everything that we have agreed to bear in mind, we formalize all this in the relevant documents, where the performers and the deadlines will be named. Exactly in half a year we will gather and see what has been done, what has not been done and for what reasons.


PS The conversation was really important, but here are a few confused cooked wine bottles and wine glasses, lurking in the background - for officials of the Ministry of Defense.



Let us hope that there is a reason for noting, and it is connected exclusively with the fact that the re-equipment of the RF Armed Forces is on schedule, and that the industrialists fulfill their obligations in full ... And maybe in such vessels there is mineral water (reserve) in case of dryness in the throat of any of the speakers ...

PPS The initiator of writing the article was the reader of "Military Review" E.S.Kulaga - a veteran of the Russian cosmonautics (certificate number XXUMX).
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  1. Volkhov
    Volkhov 2 December 2013 07: 27
    -3
    If you look closely at the reports, you can clearly see - at the beginning of the meeting, the rubber Putin, at the end, with the conclusion - the real one. This means that 2 meetings are taking place in parallel, where the open one plays the role of a "waiting room" for experts.
    Since there is no fleet, the missiles have become a "white elephant", which means the topic of the second meeting is the Land Forces and their sad fate under the leadership of the "great strategists" ...
    1. white_f
      white_f 2 December 2013 08: 25
      +1
      Quote: Volkhov
      If you look closely at the reports, you can clearly see - at the beginning of the meeting, the rubber Putin, at the end, with the conclusion - the real one. This means that 2 meetings are taking place in parallel, where the open one plays the role of a "waiting room" for experts.
      Since there is no fleet, the missiles have become a "white elephant", which means the topic of the second meeting is the Land Forces and their sad fate under the leadership of the "great strategists" ...


      You can screenshots, if not difficult of course.
      1. Volkhov
        Volkhov 2 December 2013 08: 48
        -3
        http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201311281758-s36t.htm
        Here is the real one - he is old and smart.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cHwjjJBluOA
        Here and on most of the shootings in the article - rubber, it is young and with cheat sheets.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. ism_ek
      ism_ek 2 December 2013 10: 32
      +7
      In the presidential administration, this is called "canned food". Within a few hours, several news items are filmed with Putin, then within a week or a month everything is aired in portions. It often happens with the governor. It seems that I met with Putin, and the plot is being released in two weeks. They call the Governor on the day of the release to calm down during the day. With Rogozin and Shoigu, this is difficult to do.
      All these meetings are certainly good, but Putin is not the first year with the authorities. It’s time to see the results, a new technique ...
      1. Evgeniy-111
        Evgeniy-111 2 December 2013 12: 46
        +2
        http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/44326/
        http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/44322/
        http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/44329/
        http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/44318/
        http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/44317/
        http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/44298/
        http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/44270/
        http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/44265/
        and so on ...
        1. ism_ek
          ism_ek 2 December 2013 13: 05
          -1
          So what next ????
          At least one project of the scale of the Norilsk industrial region has been completed?
          2014 is the last year of the Russian ferrous metallurgy.
          Heavy industry (Uralmash, Izhmash, VgTZ, ChTZ) - already closed or sharply curtailed production.
          What is Putin proud of? - "By sawing up?"
          Under Stalin, more than 1500 major industrial facilities were built, including DneproGES, Uralmash, KhTZ, GAZ, ZIS, factories in Magnitogorsk, Chelyabinsk, Norilsk, Stalingrad. At the same time, over the past 20 years of democracy, not a single enterprise of this scale has been built.

          Already in the 1947 year, the industrial potential of the USSR was fully restored, and in the 1950 year it grew more than 2 times in relation to the pre-war 1940 year. None of the countries affected by the war by this time even reached the pre-war level, despite powerful financial injections from the United States.

          Prices for basic foodstuffs, during the post-war 5 years in the USSR, fell more than 2 times, while in the largest countries these prices increased, and in some even 2 more than times.

          http://kprf.ru/history/soviet/122133.html
          1. i.xxx-1971
            i.xxx-1971 4 December 2013 10: 39
            0
            In England, until the 50s, people received cards.
      2. Russ69
        Russ69 2 December 2013 13: 19
        +3
        Quote: ism_ek
        It’s time to see the results, a new technique ...

        Simply, eyes need to be wiped and you will see everything ...
        1. ism_ek
          ism_ek 2 December 2013 13: 47
          0
          Quote: Russ69
          Simply, eyes need to be wiped and you will see everything ...

          Wipe your eyes and you will see that instead of Uralmash there are panty warehouses. The lion's share of components for military and space technology is made in NATO countries or China.
          We buy metal for military equipment in China ....
          You are Muscovites, look what has become with ZIL in Moscow, other factories ... Do you think the Moscow Ring Road is different? Do you smoke pipes? Martens work?
          Still worse !!!
          1. Evgeniy-111
            Evgeniy-111 3 December 2013 10: 44
            0
            http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/43226/
            http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/42568/
            http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/41546/
            http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/41544/
            http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/43932/

            I apologize for the link to third-party sites, maybe all this is somewhere else ...
        2. dizelniy
          dizelniy 2 December 2013 21: 11
          +1
          Two fighters in Domna .....
    3. datur
      datur 2 December 2013 13: 22
      +2
      Volkhov - finally stop smoking any rubbish right in the morning !!!! wink laughing
    4. The comment was deleted.
      1. Volkhov
        Volkhov 2 December 2013 14: 37
        +1
        Well, you smoked before dinner ... hookah, I guess.
  2. nemec55
    nemec55 2 December 2013 08: 17
    +4
    We don’t need to worry about modernization as a mere mortal (right now). BB has reached such a level that his partners are ready to bite him by any means. Well, so that this does not happen, BB will keep Kuzkin’s mother in good condition.
    1. rsnv
      rsnv 2 December 2013 23: 56
      0
      It is not worth worrying for mere mortals, because "it is too late to drink Borjomi when the kidneys have failed."
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. ZU-23
    ZU-23 2 December 2013 08: 23
    0
    Yes, while these adversaries need to be controlled by Vladimir Vladimirovich, well, Shoigu and Rogozin can do this basically.
    1. alone
      alone 2 December 2013 20: 28
      -2
      Quote: ZU-23
      Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, called on the government to oversee all issues related to defense orders,


      What Rogozin can tell such a shit, especially on the Strategic Missile Forces theme? I think everything I could say there has long been said through the media. But as for Shoigu, I was probably somewhere on the test or something like that. Judging by the composition, we collected those who are specialists in strategic missile forces.
      not Rogozin, not Shoigu are not specialists in the Strategic Missile Forces.
    2. dizelniy
      dizelniy 2 December 2013 21: 15
      +2
      What do they cope with? There is a plan, did you see someone strictly asked or punished for not fulfilling?
  5. Ivan Petrovich
    Ivan Petrovich 2 December 2013 08: 41
    +8
    and yet, Comrade Stalin is clearly not enough ...
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas 2 December 2013 09: 28
      +8
      Quote: Ivan Petrovich
      and yet, Comrade Stalin is clearly not enough ...

      Do not be sad when you meet him someday ...
      1. Mature naturalist
        Mature naturalist 2 December 2013 22: 24
        +2
        You are both right.
  6. aszzz888
    aszzz888 2 December 2013 08: 42
    +3
    PS The conversation was really principled, only the wine bottles and wine glasses that lurk in the background - for the Defense Ministry officials - were a little confused.


    In any solution of issues, even in principle, there are positive aspects and, accordingly, awarding distinguished. So the answer is simple - for those awarded (not for a wide range of people).
  7. askort154
    askort154 2 December 2013 08: 45
    +9
    Why without Ragozin, why without Shoigu?

    Perhaps to hear more truths. Because, in the presence of his immediate superior,
    the subordinate is not so "talkative".
    1. S-200
      S-200 2 December 2013 14: 05
      +2
      Quote: askort154
      Perhaps to hear more truths. Because, in the presence of his immediate superior,
      the subordinate is not so "talkative".

      The leaders of defense enterprises (General Designers) are ZUBRs of the military-industrial complex of Russia, Shoigu and Ragozin - technically incompetent political upstarts, often with stupid ideas, who should be shy to speak openly in order not to be ridiculed (on the sidelines) ...
      Therefore, Putin decided not to humiliate respected people by the presence of his incompetent lair ... so that he would not be ashamed of the obvious idiocy!
  8. os9165
    os9165 2 December 2013 08: 48
    +7
    Yes, we are dropping to the ass of the world - the growth of machine tools has fallen to zero, production is hopelessly out of date. There are no qualified engineers, technologists, workers, almost none. The training system for skilled workers and middle technical managers has been destroyed. Applied science destroyed. I can’t help but sneak up about scientific companies where gifted university students will solve applied military tasks - strongly. The question is who will create what. As you can see, money does not solve everything. Let us recall “PERSONNEL DECIDE EVERYTHING” by I. Stalin's brilliant saying.
    1. rsnv
      rsnv 3 December 2013 00: 26
      +2
      Quote: os9165
      machine tool industry growth fell to zero, production is hopelessly outdated.

      The growth of the Russian machine tool industry cannot fall to zero. For all the years of the existence of the independent Russia, machine tool production has been steadily declining. To better understand the situation of the domestic machine tool industry, it is worth considering some figures. Over the past twenty years, the manufacture of domestic machines has decreased by twenty times. In Soviet times 70 thousands machine tools, and today in Russia only 3 (three) thousand machine tools, while one hundred enterprises are involved in the manufacture.
      In accordance with the assessment of qualified specialists, the number of working machines throughout the Russian Federation varies from about 900 thousand to 1.5 million pieces. It should be noted that each year, from the above quantity, approximately 50 thousand pieces of equipment become unusable. The total depreciation of equipment is approximately 80 percent.
      Now, China is the world leader in machine tool manufacturing, followed by Germany, South Korea, Italy and Taiwan. The United States is in seventh place, and Russia in twenty-first.
      (source: "Machine-tool industry news" (www.4ne.ru) article "Russian machine-tool industry: current state")
  9. Grbear
    Grbear 2 December 2013 08: 53
    +7
    As everyone noticed, but P does not allow protocol errors. And if there are no Chiefs, then this means only one thing - there will be no "umbrellas". There will be specific responsible persons and their importance is emphasized by the absence of immediate supervisors.

    Conversation (and a little drinks ) with the "people" and "for life" is useful to everyone.
    1. not good
      not good 4 December 2013 00: 55
      0
      Or an "introductory" meeting, so that there would be something to talk about with the bosses
  10. Internal combustion engine
    Internal combustion engine 2 December 2013 09: 08
    +7
    For 13 years of ruling, Putin has not even learned the basics of leading human collectives. So he practices his "manual control" of the country. The leader cannot do everything himself, because you cannot cover everything purely physically and you will fail. One must be able to distribute responsibilities among subordinates and manage them, controlling their work from time to time. If subordinates do not cope with their duties, they are either transferred to another section, or kicked in the ass. Putin has the whole country at hand with huge personnel resources, so what's the matter.
    1. Fin
      Fin 2 December 2013 09: 56
      +5
      Quote: ICE
      You can’t do everything for the leader yourself, because you won’t cover everything physically and fail. You must be able to distribute responsibilities among subordinates and manage them, controlling their work from time to time.

      You write everything correctly. But apparently, a large schukher is brewing and it is better to have an idea of ​​what is happening in the sun, in order to know how long you can measure with individual parts of the body.
    2. Boris55
      Boris55 2 December 2013 10: 09
      +1
      Quote: ICE
      For 13 years of power, Putin ...
      Is everything all right with arithmetic? The first two presidential terms are 4x2 = 8 plus a year with a little now and that is 9.
      If you think that Medvedev is controlled by Putin, then you don’t understand anything in politics.
      Medvedev is a representative of the liberals-Westernizers.
      Putin is the representative of the siloviki - statesmen.
      These groups have completely different ideas about the fate of Russia.

      Quote: ICE
      ... We must be able to distribute responsibilities among subordinates ...
      Among the subordinates inherited from perestroika and brought up by the media on bribes and a thirst for personal enrichment in any way, and then running over the hill?

      Quote: ICE
      If subordinates do not cope with their duties, they are either transferred to another site or kicked in the ass.
      A good leader is engaged not only in the selection of personnel, but also in their education.
      There are new cadres in the so-called "presidential reserve" trained under the strict guidance of our enemies - they are unlikely to be better than the old ones.

      Quote: ICE
      Putin's whole country is at hand with huge resources for personnel, so what's the matter.
      Thirsty to share everything and not to offend themselves - a lot, but only few statists ... and even on their foreheads they have not written about it.

      If you think that the president is a king, general secretary or god, by moving the little finger on whose left hand slaves prostrate, then you are deeply mistaken.
    3. ism_ek
      ism_ek 2 December 2013 13: 17
      +3
      Quote: ICE
      So he practices his "manual control" of the country.

      Putin never ruled the country "by hand". His strong point is the creation of various commissions and departments, on which mistakes can always be attributed. Name at least one decision that Putin personally made!

      35 officials were involved in the preparation of the London Olympics. This is the "manual" control.
      We have only 25 departments in Olimpstroy !!! Forty personal drivers !!!
    4. Mature naturalist
      Mature naturalist 2 December 2013 22: 29
      0
      Quote: ICE
      ... So what's the deal.

      As my company commander used to say: "You can't even trust your own wife, because she can fiddle around and get lost."
  11. shpuntik
    shpuntik 2 December 2013 09: 10
    11
    And who is Shoigu? Foreman, master of the trust, where did he get the military rank without service and military school?
    Who is Rogozin, an internship journalist in Brussels.
    Perhaps the professional warriors did not accept them as leaders, did they grumble among the military? And Putin, as a mediator, persuades them to work as they should, put up with a reduction in armaments? Promised gingerbread, celebrated with champagne. Maybe you are right.
    Quote:
    In July 2013, Sergei Shoigu, being the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation, paid an official visit to Sweden. During negotiations with his Swedish counterpart Karin Enström [sv], Shoigu remarked:
    Russian-Swedish military cooperation has a long history and very deep roots.


    The bloody massacre near the walls of the Supreme Council of Russia began at the moment when on October 3, 1993. Sergei Shoigu, chairman of the State Committee for Civil Defense and Emergencies, handed out a large number of machine guns to Yegor Gaidar, first deputy chairman of the Council of Ministers, who was preparing to “defend democracy” from the Russian Constitution. More than 1000 small arms (AKS-74U assault rifles with ammunition) from the Ministry of Emergency Situations were distributed by Yegor Gaidar into the hands of “defenders of democracy”, including Beitar militants.
    http://www.rospisatel.ru/tarasov93.htm
    1. Apollo
      Apollo 2 December 2013 09: 29
      +6
      quote-Is it possible in this connection to say that Putin does not trust those who are responsible for overseeing the defense order in the government? Well, here is the only way: trust, but verify. This, as they say, is our way.

      I am inclined to trust this version here. I do not rule out that in the very near future VV Putin will visit those military units of the RF Armed Forces in which rearmament is planned, according to the plans of the State Defense Order.
      1. tilovaykrisa
        tilovaykrisa 2 December 2013 09: 33
        +5
        The GDP does not trust anyone in the campaign, perhaps even himself, all of whom he brought to power, he was framed, as an example, Serdyuk, iPhone and others. It is time for him to start already 38 years old, and begin with pests in the Kremlin.
      2. shpuntik
        shpuntik 2 December 2013 09: 56
        +3
        Apollon AZ Today, 09:29 AM ↑ New
        I do not exclude the possibility that Vladimir Putin will visit in the very near future, first of all, those military units of the RF Armed Forces in which rearmament is planned, according to the plans of the State Defense Order.

        Hope dies last.

        Colonel-General
        tilovaykrisa (3) RU Today, 09:33 ↑ New
        It is time for him to start already 38 years old, and begin with pests in the Kremlin.

        Here we boldly apply the Bolshevik method: "faith in a good tsar." smile
      3. Ascetic
        Ascetic 2 December 2013 10: 35
        +7
        Quote: Apollon
        I do not exclude the possibility that Vladimir Putin will visit in the very near future, first of all, those military units of the RF Armed Forces in which rearmament is planned, according to the plans of the State Defense Order.


        Greetings Apollo! Quite right, after six months when the report on the work done is scheduled to be heard, it will be in the army that there will be final checks and exercises following the results of the winter training period and the probability of the presence of the High Command in the troops is quite high. Many correctly understood the reason for the absence of Shoigu and Rogozin at these meetings, because for a person who knows the service and the army from the inside, it is obvious.
        Quote: askort154
        Perhaps to hear more truths. Because, in the presence of his immediate superior,
        the subordinate is not so "talkative".

        Moreover, the Supreme Command can hold meetings and inspections in any format and the Protocol does not apply here. In addition, the main persons who actually manage and are responsible for the state defense order were present. From the Ministry of Defense was Borisov and the commander-in-chief (who, under Shoigu, are directly responsible for the implementation of plans to modernize their types and provide them with weapons, all the more research institutes and military operations were returned to them as it was in the Union. The first point is money and terms, the second point is partially due of the first, this is the brewing conflict between the Ministry of Defense in the person of Borisov and the military-industrial complex in the person of Rogozin and their groups of influence. Differences are especially critical in matters of fleet development strategy. The same conflict over multipurpose nuclear submarines. The other day there was an article from "RG" where a report of a certain expert council at the military-industrial complex was published, which states that the project Ashvery complicated and expensive, and it is proposed to follow the American path of replacing the expensive Seawulf project with the Virginia project, that is, to limit the construction of Project 885 boats to 4-6 hulls and build nuclear submarines of a new project, "unified with Yasenem in the main systems, but simplified weapons Borisov, however, insists on continuing the project to create a powerful unified nuclear submarine capable of performing a wide range of tasks and powerful weapons, rather than spraying funds for the construction of diverse boats with a narrower range of tasks and simplified weapons.
        That is, Putin did the right thing for the High Command, personally delving into the essence of the issue without Shoigu and Rogozin, equating them and not pushing their foreheads, thereby showing that state interests will prevail at the heart of all issues of rearmament, and not the ambitions and corporate interests of officials and commanders.
        Well, the wine, Probably one of those present had a birthday.
        1. shpuntik
          shpuntik 2 December 2013 11: 13
          +2
          AvatarMarshal
          Quote: Apollon
          I do not exclude the possibility that Vladimir Putin will visit in the very near future, first of all, those military units of the RF Armed Forces in which rearmament is planned, according to the plans of the State Defense Order.

          Ascetic SU Today, 10:35 ↑
          Well, the wine, Probably one of those present had a birthday.

          Stanislav, salute hi I welcome Apollo hi , sound reasoning with you. But these fortunetellers could be understood in the first year of rule. And now?
          Who shuffles them if not Putin: the Ministry of Defense, the chief of the General Staff, the beginning. military branches?
          What is the reason, such a personnel leapfrog, do you think?
          1. Ascetic
            Ascetic 2 December 2013 12: 35
            +8
            Quote: shpuntik
            fortunetellers could be understood in the first year of rule.


            Do you know that in the first years of Putin’s rule, Russia could not resist the so-called disarming strike US precision and conventional weapons? We lost control of the space segment of the "OKO" early warning system, holes were gaping in the ground part of the early warning missile system. The aircraft did not fly, the fleet was rusting at the bases. The Americans even had a plan to deliver strikes with AUS and the Ohio nuclear submarine with axes from different directions and we could not oppose this strike because even Granites remained a useless toy in the absence of the Legend ICRC. Then in 2010, this American plan became public, because already in the tenth year of Putin's rule, who had managed to "ruin everything" during this time, became impracticable. I don’t remember what it was called, but then there was an active discussion on TV with pictures and diagrams. At that time, the Americans had one but essential problem for them - the possibility of reliable XNUMX% confirmation of the destruction of the potential of a retaliatory strike in real time.Who served in the Strategic Missile Forces know the differences in concepts-sky-ready PU and PU in a delay to start.So the Americans could not determine with the help of all types of reconnaissance what would be completely unreadable and what would still be capable of taking off. In the first years of Putin's rule, we simply did not have time to inflict a counter-counter strike. Few people know about this and take Putin's words that Russia was on the verge of bankruptcy and disintegration just as PR. In 2006. the first spacecraft of the early warning system appeared, the construction progress of the new Voronezh radar and the timing were discussed here many times, the first Lotuses and Peonies appeared in orbit, and now we have target designation for long-range anti-ship missiles, a complete GLONASS constellation
            with laser stations for differential correction, and we are already talking about creating a single radar field of the country. And this is not a complete list of what has been done to strengthen the defense of the country, which could even turn into Yugoslavia or Iraq, which can be bombed with impunity by flying zones.
            1. shpuntik
              shpuntik 2 December 2013 22: 32
              +3
              Ascetic SU Today, 12:35 ↑ New
              Do you know that in the first years of Putin’s rule, Russia could not resist the so-called US disarmament strike with precision and conventional weapons?

              I could not resist as in the USSR, but I could answer. Therefore, the ShA did not attack, there are no fools. You won’t make money in the nuclear desert, and even in the contaminated territory, you’ll spend it alone.
              Everything is as you say, but at what cost? In approximately the same way, comparing the achievements of the ShA and the USSR it is reasonable to ask the same question. State district power plants, nuclear power plants, blast furnaces for metal melting and similar achievements in the West were made without much effort, without the Gulag Institute and other costs in the form of human casualties.
              Today: take the export of raw materials, divide by 140 million inhabitants, and you will receive the amount by which any family can afford to pay $ 1000 monthly to the national defense. This is not working. Gazprom, Rosneft and similar companies work, let it be 5% of the working population. Now give the rest 95% work. Buy machines, build factories, and you will get Switzerland squared. In the sense of security. For the speed of mobilization from them, the same example can be taken.
              Where is the Khabarovsk plant "EVGO", Komsolsk "Avest", what does the Far East do? That's right: they are driving round timber to China, there are oil-producing platforms (only metal structures), tugs to provide platforms, a shipyard is being built in the closed city of Bolshaya Kamen - there will be gas carriers and tankers. The filling, respectively, is all imported, from diesel engines to a plotter.
              I am not talking about seafood, fishing fleet.
              I will not get angry, I summarize: GDP and its team are economic criminals. As for the Strategic Missile Forces, the S-500 is the protection of resources (Shtokman and much more that we do not know.). Anyway, the bull is stroking the same before slaughter. So what is my vision of the situation.
              which could still turn into Yugoslavia or Iraq, which you can bomb with impunity by flying zones.

              Could, but then others would pump resources. Now the home-grown oligarchy, as it were, is more loyal. May be.
              1. Ascetic
                Ascetic 3 December 2013 00: 52
                +5
                Quote: shpuntik
                shpuntik

                What you are talking about is called supporting the economy on domestic demand. Which under the conditions of the liberal market, our economy will not be able to satisfy because it is uncompetitive and unprofitable. Under Putin, a system was created in which profits from excess profits (at least a large part of them) through a system of economic relations and through the budget were nevertheless redistributed and allowed to plug holes in the economy and ensure its growth in a liberal market. in particular, through the creation of the Central Bank's backup banks and the Welfare Fund. That is, unlike the Yeltsin era, the money went into development, including defense. People began to receive salaries and pensions, because money appeared, and not like when Eltsin pounded helmets and received salaries with coffins, because all the proceeds were pumped out by the Khodorkovsky oil oligarchs, Abramovich and Berezovsky. Now there is such a situation that these excess profits (the price of oil is stably high) can no longer cover the decline in profitability of their own economyWhere will it be high if the profit from the export of raw materials is converted into the American economy through gold and foreign currency reserves, plus the discount rate of the Central Bank on loans, to put it mildly, does not contribute to the competition of our entrepreneur with a foreign one, where does the profitability come from? In Russia, most of the consumer goods are imported and an increase in purchasing power will lead to increased demand for the currency and, ultimately, to the devaluation of the ruble and, in the best case, to the return of purchasing power, at worst due to financial panic, to its reduction. We need a single market of about 300-400 mln. Mouths and we need a convertible ruble not pegged to the dollar or at least become one of the currencies. How to develop the manufacturing sector without long and cheap loans in a competitive environment and also in a country with not-so-good logistics and energy-intensive climate? You can create a single Switzerland in the Moscow region for which the province works, and here we will have a model of the Western neocolonial world order in which without any GULAG in Switzerland they get rich and die of hunger in Mali, provided that there is more gold in Mali than in all Swiss banks. Therefore, without changing the monetary policy of the Central Bank and the tax policy, the whole system that was created in the 90s by Gaidar reformers, there will be no internal economic growth and consumer demand, since no one will invest in it, it will not be able to make a profit and will not develop, because it will remain unprofitable. And in order to reorient the economy to domestic supply markets, it is necessary, firstly, to have a market with a population of both the USSR and the social camp and a unified monetary system. This is where the struggle for the TS and EurAsEC and, in particular, for the Ukrainian market of 80 mln.
                1. studentmati
                  studentmati 3 December 2013 01: 10
                  +1
                  Competently and reasonably! good
                2. shpuntik
                  shpuntik 3 December 2013 10: 40
                  0
                  Ascetic SU Today, 00:52 ↑ New
                  Therefore, without changing the monetary policy of the Central Bank and the tax policy, the entire system that was created in the 90s by Gaidar reformers, there will be no internal economic growth and consumer demand,

                  Recently, news of government grants for the HSE appeared on the website; it was organized in 1992, as did Gaidar's institute, the IET. From Wiki:
                  By a decree of the President of Russia dated April 25, 2012, participants in the work on Strategy 2020 were awarded orders and medals. Experts working on the development of the updated “2020 Strategy” were awarded government awards, including employees of the E.T. Gaidar

                  In principle, we are talking about the same thing, only I argue that a glass above half cracked, it can’t be filled with these people. We will stay at our place. hi
        2. Onyx
          Onyx 2 December 2013 13: 58
          +1
          Quote: Ascetic
          From Moscow was Borisov

          Borisov was not at any of the meetings
          1. Ascetic
            Ascetic 2 December 2013 14: 17
            +2
            Quote: Onyx
            Borisov was not at any of the meetings


            Yes exactly. confused it with a meeting at the "Pribor" in Moscow. Just a week before Sochi, Borisov was holding a meeting on the Ground Forces.
            1. Onyx
              Onyx 2 December 2013 14: 21
              0
              Quote: Ascetic
              Yes exactly. mixed up

              It happens. And so, as it seemed to me, he is a competent specialist.
              1. Ascetic
                Ascetic 2 December 2013 15: 59
                +2
                Quote: Onyx
                It happens. And so, as it seemed to me, he is a competent specialist.


                He was first in the army since Suvorov School. Then he graduated from the Pushkin Military School of Radio Electronics of Air Defense and Moscow State University. For 20 years he served in the army as an officer. , radio electronics engineer.
                July 2, 2008 - by order of the Government of the Russian Federation No. 960-r was appointed Deputy Minister of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation.
                Under his leadership, a development strategy for radio electronics and the corresponding federal target program were developed, and attention to this industry grew noticeably.
                March 2011 - Prime Minister Vladimir Putin signed a decree appointing Yuri Borisov as First Deputy Chairman of the Military-Industrial Commission under the Government of Russia, relieving him of his previous position as Deputy Minister of Industry and Trade.
                “Borisov is a talented official, he did a lot for the development of electronics in Russia,” says Boris Avdonin, general director of the Central Research Institute of Electronics.

                November 15, 2012 - Vladimir Putin appointed Yuri Borisov Deputy Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation. Under the leadership of Borisov, the Ministry developed a strategy for the development of the electronic industry and the corresponding federal target program. The decree of Vladimir Putin appointing Borisov to the post of deputy defense minister does not indicate his responsibilities.
                In fact, he is a deputy for military and military equipment,
                “Chief in weapons and technology” in “Shoigu’s office”
      4. dmb
        dmb 2 December 2013 14: 36
        +1
        But in my opinion, everything is much simpler. Why is it necessary to rattle about this meeting on all federal channels in all news and analytical programs? It is correct that gullible fellow citizens could once again shout: "Putin is raising Russia from its knees." If work issues were resolved there, then 30 seconds and once a day is enough. and the rest - to the specialists, whom, as rightly noted, neither Putin nor Shaoigu and Rogozin are. In general, it is very amusing when Vova, talking with some minister, tells him about 20 minutes. what his ministry is doing, and he nods his head in agreement.
    2. alone
      alone 2 December 2013 20: 32
      +3
      Quote: shpuntik
      Russian-Swedish military cooperation has a long history and very deep roots


      In this he is right, cooperation begins just with Peter the 1st and Charles the 12th wassat
      1. shpuntik
        shpuntik 2 December 2013 23: 26
        +1
        lonely (1) AZ Today, 20:32 ↑
        In this he is right, cooperation begins just with Peter the 1st and Charles the 12th wassat

        Of course, he said diplomatically correctly, you can’t blame him for stupidity.
        In general, Shoigu correctly speaks, without water, in this he is similar to Sobyanin. But the Ministry of Emergencies should be a ministry for the prevention of emergency situations, and not just an emergency. I don’t take earthquakes and the like, I take forest fires and safety measures.
  12. saag
    saag 2 December 2013 09: 33
    0
    "... from industrialists, for example, Vladimir Degtyar, General Director (aka General Designer) of the Academician Makeyev Design Bureau."
    Interestingly, from MIT it means no or not mentioned, it can be assumed that Bulava will go in a small series, and there will be a transition to Makeevka liquid rockets
    1. Ascetic
      Ascetic 2 December 2013 12: 06
      +3
      Quote: saag
      Interestingly, from MIT it means no or not mentioned, it can be assumed that Bulava will go in a small series, and there will be a transition to Makeevka liquid rockets


      I beg you Solomon (far right) and Nikulin (did not get into the frame).
      Putin so that there are no conflicts and confusion and vacillations, he is building a leadership system based on the Soviet model. The appropriate body will be created in the AP, or the service will monitor the modernization of the army and navy (as the corresponding department of the CPSU Central Committee). The government and the military-industrial commission (MIC) operating under it, headed by Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, will perform purely technical functions (like a similar body in the Union). Strategic Missile Forces (Strategic Missile Forces) will remain "The main component of strategic nuclear forces" and will develop in priority order. Which, given the crisis state of the country's economy, is understandable. Strategic Rocket Forces - the most low-cost military branch. At one time, ex-Minister of Defense Igor Sergeyev stated that, solving almost 100% of the strategic tasks of the country's defense, only 8% of military spending is spent on the Strategic Rocket Forces. In the future, not only solid fuel, but liquid heavy missiles capable of overcoming the US missile defense will develop. That is, there will be no one-sided bias towards PGRK.
      The reason for this decision lies on the surface. We carefully read Putin
      "Is coming large stable financing weapons programs, but at different stages there are “setbacks and failures”, and “a number of key projects are floating in time”.
      In this regard, the president will personally oversee this process.
      1. Onyx
        Onyx 2 December 2013 14: 08
        -2
        Quote: Ascetic
        In the future, not only solid fuel, but liquid heavy missiles capable of overcoming the US missile defense will develop.

        But aren't solid-propellant missiles capable of overcoming US missile defense? Yes, Degtyar said something about the need for a rocket "with increased payload", but Putin said nothing about it.
        Quote: Ascetic
        That is, there will be no one-sided bias towards PGRK.

        Poplars-M and Yars are placed not only on the PGRK, but also in the mines, so there will be no one-sided deviation towards the PGRK
      2. saag
        saag 2 December 2013 18: 32
        0
        Putin signed a decree on the creation of a joint rocket-building corporation, now we need to see who will be headed if Solomonov, then the main trend is towards TT missiles, if anyone else means something else, tracing in one word with UAC
        1. Onyx
          Onyx 2 December 2013 19: 18
          +1
          Quote: saag
          Putin signed a decree on the creation of a joint rocket-building corporation, now we need to see who will be headed if Solomonov, then the main trend is towards TT missiles, if anyone else means something else, tracing in one word with UAC

          Not this way. "Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a decree on the establishment of the United Rocket and Space Corporation (URSC) OJSC on the basis of the Scientific Research Institute of Space Instrumentation" (NII KP) ". URCS will unite civil rocketry enterprises. Solomon has nothing to do with
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. Nayhas
    Nayhas 2 December 2013 09: 36
    +1
    Yes, just that! Kuzhugetych thumps, but they did not take the talker. he doesn’t know a damn thing ...
    1. AK-47
      AK-47 2 December 2013 11: 34
      +1
      Quote: Nayhas
      Yes, just that! Kuzhugetych thumps, but they did not take the talker. he doesn’t know a damn thing ...

      Tough, but such a version has a place to be.
    2. Onyx
      Onyx 2 December 2013 14: 10
      0
      Quote: Nayhas
      Yes, just that! Kuzhugetych thumps, but they did not take the talker. he doesn’t know a damn thing ...

      Do you drink with him?
      1. alone
        alone 2 December 2013 20: 33
        +1
        Quote: Onyx
        Do you drink with him?


        Well, why immediately plump? Slowly drink and have a bite lol
  15. Stinger
    Stinger 2 December 2013 10: 18
    0
    Most likely, he decided to deal with a tangle of problems himself, having listened to them firsthand. The rocket men have been fighting for a long time between the solid-armed officers (MIT) and the Makeevtsy-liquid-armed men, the Tushniks and Ilyushintsy were hanging in the air forces and the submarines are arguing in the fleets. I think so. By the way, Stalin, in order to disavow the desire of the front commanders to embellish the situation, kept the representatives of the Supreme Command Headquarters independent from them.
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  17. veteran56
    veteran56 2 December 2013 10: 20
    0
    The situation with the meeting in Sochi is very incomprehensible. It seems that VVP and Shoigu are friends, but they were not invited to the meeting. Maybe “the dog is buried somewhere else.” I would like to.
  18. mountain
    mountain 2 December 2013 10: 32
    +1
    I, like many, also drew attention to the absence of Shoigu and Rogozan. I don’t see anything in this that would alert and cause concern. If you are not a formal leader, then the opinions below those who hold and hold responsible posts are very important and may have their own opinions and experience. Only in the current case, and it develops, the real picture.
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  20. Averias
    Averias 2 December 2013 11: 11
    +1
    In my opinion, there is nothing strange here. Putin, at these meetings, spoke with the "techies". with people "from the machine" so to speak. People who know the specifics. And why Mr. Rogozin and Mr. Shoigu? They are not specialists. They are curators, what could they say in principle, without knowing the subtleties and specifics of the same Strategic Missile Forces?
    Now they will discuss, match the results, and only then there will be a conversation with Rogozin and Shoigu.
  21. shurup
    shurup 2 December 2013 11: 15
    +3
    The president can provide more necessary assistance than the minister or deputy prime minister can afford.
    A survey of claims against superiors should be conducted without the presence of superiors and not under video recording. The survey should be conducted unexpectedly for superiors. A glass of wine during the survey creates a confidential atmosphere. Sochi is a better place for this than a carpet in the Kremlin office.
    Rubbing glasses is getting harder for Putin.
    1. Avenich
      Avenich 2 December 2013 11: 42
      +1
      I agree. I was extremely surprised by the range of issues discussed at the meeting in Sochi. Is that the link "100 days before the order" (sorry before the Olympics).
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  23. DmitryK
    DmitryK 2 December 2013 11: 57
    +1
    I drew attention to the uniform of the military. Shoigu was invisibly present in these samples of sloppy-clown coloring, T-shirts under a flesh-colored tunic of women's tights. First he dressed the Ministry of Emergencies in the form of a design level of the district clothing house, now they have been allowed to the army.
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  25. samoletil18
    samoletil18 2 December 2013 11: 59
    +1
    An analogy with the times of the Second World War arose. In the memoirs: the new commander of the army, or even the corps, before leaving for the front, meets with Stalin for a conversation. I hope a big kipish at the moment is not worth the wait. It was like before the war there were meetings with chief designers, directors of key industries and the military.
  26. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 2 December 2013 12: 20
    0
    Perhaps Shoigu will be pulled higher and now the receiver is watching, well, but Rogozin obviously can not cope and maybe he will go lower, and again there are bride shows.
    1. Onyx
      Onyx 2 December 2013 14: 15
      +1
      Quote: chunga-changa
      Looks of the receiver.

      And what kind of receiver will it be: a radio receiver, a TV, maybe GLONASS?
      1. chunga-changa
        chunga-changa 2 December 2013 15: 05
        +1
        Yes you are right, successor. But the receiver and the receiver are still different things.
        1. Onyx
          Onyx 2 December 2013 17: 19
          0
          Quote: chunga-changa
          receiver and receiver are still different things.

          What is the difference?
          1. chunga-changa
            chunga-changa 2 December 2013 18: 00
            0
            Obviously spelling and sounding.
            1. Onyx
              Onyx 2 December 2013 18: 28
              0
              And by value it is one and the same
              1. chunga-changa
                chunga-changa 4 December 2013 00: 45
                0
                No, not the same thing. In this context, "successor" is the misspelled word "successor". Now, if I had written "VHF range receiver" then yes, the word "receiver" would have been misspelled and it would have meant the same thing. And so it looks like you attribute your fantasies to me.
  27. DmitryK
    DmitryK 2 December 2013 13: 32
    0
    Nah ..... much higher? Above it is necessary to have strategic thinking, the experience of the manager will not be enough.
  28. DmitryK
    DmitryK 2 December 2013 13: 32
    0
    Nah ..... much higher? Above it is necessary to have strategic thinking, the experience of the manager will not be enough.
  29. runway
    runway 2 December 2013 14: 10
    0
    When discussing the state. defense. there was no order Shoigu and Rogozin? And what does that change? All meetings Obeshchalkin holds in mode monologue. The members of the government and those invited are silent extras who, at best, are allowed to say: "Thank you, Vladimir Vladimirovich, for telling us how to be and what to do .... Yes, after your instructions, what are we doing now ... ".
    "And nothing has changed". (Krylov's fables).
    1. Onyx
      Onyx 2 December 2013 14: 20
      +5
      Quote: piston
      And what does that change? All meetings Obeshchalkin holds in monologue mode.

      If you don’t even have the mind to understand that only the opening words of Putin get into the media, this does not mean that the meetings are held in the form of a monologue
      1. runway
        runway 2 December 2013 14: 26
        0
        How do you know that I did not attend such meetings?
        Be careful and you will not be sent.
        1. Onyx
          Onyx 2 December 2013 14: 50
          0
          Quote: piston
          How do you know that I did not attend such meetings?

          This is understandable from the nonsense that you wrote.
          Quote: piston
          Be careful and you will not be sent.

          Turn on your head just
  30. The comment was deleted.
  31. DimychDV
    DimychDV 2 December 2013 15: 13
    +1
    I think Shoigu simply had nothing to do with the approval of the plans, the results of which were discussed. Rogozin is more of an ideological value than an economic one. And here all the same - a working conversation on issues of state acceptance. And alcohol in the background is so that no one builds versions: "Really, no one will chop after such and such a gangway? Not in a military way ..."
    EVERYTHING IS NECESSARY, EVERYTHING ON THE MILITARY, IN RUSSIAN! And who can’t keep an eye on themselves is a filter at the same time.
    I once wrote about the fighter, when Putin handed medals and orders to a large group of soldiers. Urgent composition - tea, coffee, juices, compotes, buns and more. With the officers - we drank a glass of wine, with conscripts sat at tea. And he gave everyone two weeks of vacation. By citizen, in a hotel and cultural center, among a bunch of girls at an international festival and with a treatment center at hand - but still centrally, under the commanders. In restaurants - by a civilian group, and any dishes - but without alcohol.
    Ask - for what? And this is after they hunted on Gelayev for about a month in the mountains. It was important for the GDP for our paratroopers to reckon with him. And the soldiers were counted, honestly, as taught.
    True, then - in February, or something - he crawled out from somewhere and a couple of Dagestan border guards with him fired - but already in the next world, finally. And the versions on this score sounded contradictory. Although the guys Heroes of Russia have been appropriated.
  32. tank64rus
    tank64rus 2 December 2013 15: 41
    +6
    Comrade Stalin, before holding a meeting on a particularly important problem, always began with the grassroots or middle managers. A comrade summoned to the Kremlin told his understanding of the problems in this direction. They could have been called by several people until the Supreme reached the core of the problem. As you know, lying in this case was deadly. Then the Supreme had already held a meeting with senior officials and it was impossible to give him anything, therefore they spoke there as in confession, and even there the junior ones began to report, so that the older ones would not be crushed by authority. The Supreme listened to everyone, sometimes throwing lines, at the end he spoke his decision.
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  34. The comment was deleted.
  35. a.hamster55
    a.hamster55 2 December 2013 15: 51
    -1
    Dear ism_ek! Well, why do we need so much metal to develop new deposits - at us
    what a lot of extra money? Scrap metal and so with an overabundance - all collection points are littered to the brim. Yes, and use ferrous metal less and less. But good steels are few. I admire the passages from the set of Studebaker cars delivered under Lend-Lease - this is steel. If you personally do not have enough iron, then go to the pharmacy.
  36. Andrey Skokovsky
    Andrey Skokovsky 2 December 2013 16: 52
    0
    we like some scribblers everywhere stick their nose
    the president’s simple and primitive desire to figure out the situation and talk to the direct executors in the absence of their immediate bosses doesn’t even seem to come to their brain,
    no, we would have had something to look after, have seen enough of a fucking "onolytic"
    a definite minus to this whole canoe
  37. Andrey Skokovsky
    Andrey Skokovsky 2 December 2013 16: 52
    -1
    we like some scribblers everywhere stick their nose
    the president’s simple and primitive desire to figure out the situation and talk to the direct executors in the absence of their immediate bosses doesn’t even seem to come to their brain,
    no, we would have had something to look after, have seen enough of a fucking "onolytic"
  38. PQ137
    PQ137 2 December 2013 18: 17
    +1
    I come to the conclusion that the reason (the absence of Shoigu and Rogozin) is banal and it is on the surface. Not a single subordinate will be so frank in his leadership, much less a military one. GDP knows this, an obvious fact. It's like a father commander, well, sons, confess where you press, how you press. It’s not intricate, but at the same time you won’t lie, and who knows what happened after the part open to the press, maybe there was a small relaxing and relaxing sabantuychik with frank questions and answers.
  39. Metlik
    Metlik 2 December 2013 19: 37
    0
    Shoigu and Rogozin were not at the meeting? Not surprised at all. They do not fit into the president's PR campaign "there is no alternative to me."
    1. alone
      alone 2 December 2013 20: 36
      0
      Quote: Metlik
      Shoigu and Rogozin were not at the meeting? Not surprised at all. They do not fit into the president's PR campaign "there is no alternative to me."


      Think Rogozin an alternative to Putin? or Shoigu?

      Heh, Shchutnik! you’ll make a barbecue out of this net, do not forget to invite !! laughing
      1. Metlik
        Metlik 2 December 2013 20: 43
        0
        Quote: lonely
        Think Rogozin an alternative to Putin?

        Rogozin is a politician, and quite successful, the Kremlin understands this, otherwise he would not have been given a position and would not have been sent to Brussels. All more or less prominent people are expelled from Moscow, and then they make a sad face "Who else but Putin?"
  40. Evkur
    Evkur 3 December 2013 01: 32
    +1
    Quote: Mature Naturalist
    Quote: ICE
    ... So what's the deal.

    As my company commander used to say: "You can't even trust your own wife, because she can fiddle around and get lost."

    Mine also said the same))))
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  42. I think so
    I think so 3 December 2013 21: 18
    0
    The usual empty-handed chatterbox at the president’s level ... I still don’t remember what this president did from the PROMISED ... And then the DEFENSE ... they will talk paint on the screen and forget ... as usual though ...