Military Review

"Dry" in exile. Why is our plane scolded at home and praised in the West?

150
The recent catastrophe in Kazan made many people ask themselves: why buy foreign airlines, if we have our own new airplanes? The same "Dry Superjet" (SSJ100), for example.


"Dry" in exile. Why is our plane scolded at home and praised in the West?


But this proposal was made on the Internet by online hamsters who deride everything Russian, be it buckwheat or Lada-Kalina. As soon as they didn’t bother with the plane, how many evil passages were thrown onto the Net. But okay, hamsters - SSJ100 was also disliked by the leading Russian carriers: they often break down, and therefore fly a little, and in general many of them are closer to foreign technology.

So, the attempt to create a replacement for the Tu-134 and Yak-42, the liner, which was called "the hope of the Russian aviation industry", the first civil aircraft developed in Russia from scratch for the first time since 1991, failed?

From Komsomolsk-on-Amur to Mexico City

News that the Mexican airline Interjet, the country's second largest carrier, decided to buy the Sukhoi Superjet 30 looked quite unexpected. Until now, the Mexicans flew Airbus A320, which the airline already has 39 pieces, and felt pretty good. When they decided to increase the fleet, they were offered their cars by the Brazilian Embraer and the Canadian Bombardier Aerospace, considered to be the leaders of the global market for passenger regional aircraft. But the choice was made in favor of Russia. And the choice is serious: the cost of the contract for the supply of 20 aircraft SSJ100, taking into account the catalog price (35 million dollars) - 700 million dollars, and subject to the transfer of 10 options into solid orders in general will exceed 1 billion dollars.

So Interjet became the first customer of SSJ100 in the Western Hemisphere.

The first "green" aircraft with a tail number 95023 took off from the airfield of the assembly plant in Komsomolsk-on-Amur 5 in October 2012 of the year and, flying in transit through Novosibirsk and Zhukovsky, landed in Venice in October 6. There, in the Customization Center, the plane was painted in the colors of the airline Interjet, the best Italian designers equipped the salon. A special feature of the aircraft was the interior - the 93 seats are spaced with the 86,36 seat pitch, which allows passengers to feel quite free: usually, this step is 76,2 to 78,74 for airlines.

"To save weight - that was our goal: both the interior and the shelves saved 500 kg," said Nazario Kauchelia, head of SuperJet International.

While we were busy with the board in Venice, a spare parts warehouse was created in Florida, and SJI, which became a provider of training services for SSJ100 crews around the world, trained 44 pilots from Interjet, as well as 8 flight attendants and 100 technical personnel.

The first "Dry Superjet" was transferred to the Mexicans this summer at the air show at Le Bourget. 23 flew to Mexico in July and, having made two technical landings in Keflavik (Iceland) and Bangor (Maine, USA), was in Toluca (near Mexico City).

Regular flights began on September 18. Today, both “Dry”, to which a third has recently been added, fly from Mexico City to 6 cities in the country. The longest route is Mazatlan - Mexico (1 h 45 min.), The shortest - Mexico City - Aguascalientes (42 min.). It is expected that in two or three months the geography of flights will significantly expand, including through routes to the countries of the Caribbean and the United States.

Paradox of "Superjet"

And recently, the first results were summed up, which turned out to be quite unexpected. In Mexico, cars dangle like primordial ones: if the average daily SSJ100 fleet in Aeroflot, as reported by pilots on blogs, rarely exceeds 4,5 hours (in Muscovy - 7,2 hours), in Mexico in the first 4 weeks the maximum flight time was higher than 11 hours, and operational reliability was more than 99%. 738 flights have been completed for a total of over 794 flight hours. Only 7 delays were recorded for an average of 23 minutes. Airplanes performed per day before 16 (!) Flights.

According to experts, these are very good results for a narrow-body short-haul aircraft, the Superjet is considered to be a regional airliner designed for short-distance flights, and for him such figures can be called excellent.

“We conducted a survey among our passengers, and its results turned out to be quite revealing: the SuperJet is more like it than the Airbus A320,” seems to have been impressed by the Interjet executive director José Luis Garza. - The distances between the seats, the noiselessness, the volume of the luggage shelves, which are much larger than those established on the А320, - after all, these indicators are of paramount importance for passengers. Fully electric remote control system is more advanced than on А320. On the other hand, we, engineers, financiers and technicians, need reliability, safety, endurance, efficiency, as demonstrated by the new SSJ100. This is a cost-effective product, which is achieved using advanced on-board technologies, low fuel consumption and low operating costs, significantly better than the competition. Moreover, today it is the only regional aircraft in the configuration of 5 seats in a row, which provides passengers with comfort comparable to long-haul aircraft.

According to reviews of Mexicans, "Sukhoi Superjet" became the key for Interjet in terms of airline development. The car confirmed the excellent aerodynamics and performance.

“For many decades in the civilian aircraft industry, we have chosen from 4 aircraft holdings: Airbus, Boeing, Embraer and Bombardier,” adds Miguel Aleman, president of Interjet. - Now the fifth company is entering the market - Sukhoi Civil Aircraft, which will take part in this competition. In terms of the Mexican regional aviationThe appearance of the SSJ100 may affect ticket prices throughout the region. This will be our contribution to the country's economy and help people, as tickets will become cheaper. Compared to the Embraer, the SSJ100 is lighter and more advanced. The cost of its operation is 2,5 times lower than that of analogues, but for us it is a lot. It is equipped with modern avionics, engines provide fuel savings of 10%. Finally, just carry out its maintenance. This is the best plane we had.

Italian pilots from SJI and Mexican from Interjet also note the characteristics of the Russian aircraft, in conversations with us they expressed their compliments to the car. And in particular, in terms of fuel consumption, which turned out to be not just an “excellent”, and even better.

“The Sukhoi Superjet behaves amazingly in the air,” admitted the pilot of the Mexico-Mazatlan flight, Diego Esquivel. - It is maneuverable, easily gaining height, it is pleasant to manage. I worked for many years on Airbus, and honestly, I am surprised by the Russian plane.

Where are the records?

Why is SSJ100 criticized in Russia, and in Mexico it demonstrates more than good results? There are several versions. According to one of them, domestic airlines simply do not have enough destinations where such a plane is in demand. Another possible reason: Mexicans got more technically advanced cars, they are no longer in the top ten, but seriously, taking into account all the remarks, refined (this assumption is also supported by the fact that in Aeroflot the daily average SSJ100 is constantly growing as reported by pilots, exceeded 7 hours). Probably, both black PR and a bias towards the car of some of our “aviation specialists” play a role.

In any case, the experience of Mexicans showed: how the plane is served and planned, so it flies, the rest is talk in favor of the poor. History The success of the same A320 also began not very smoothly.

From the dossier

The first flight of the Sukhoi Suprejet took place in May 2008. At present, the airlines delivered 21 aircraft SSJ100. In addition to the Mexican Interjet, they are present in the fleets of 6 airlines: Aeroflot, Yakutia, Muscovy, Gazprom-Avia, Indonesian Sky Aviation and Lao Central Airlines. Recently, several small Chinese airlines have announced their intention to buy 50 SSJ100.

There are about 200 firm orders for the aircraft.
Author:
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http://www.rg.ru/2013/11/28/superjet.html
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  1. Soldier
    Soldier 2 December 2013 06: 31
    21
    All this is certainly good, but how many percent is this plane RUSSIAN? And do not say that this is world practice, little by little the best. Okay, we don’t know how to make mobile phones, but we can build airplanes. .As Vereshchagin said - ,, It's a shame for the state, Why is it bad for example TU-334?
    1. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 2 December 2013 08: 24
      21
      Quote: Armeec
      All this is certainly good, but how many percent is this plane RUSSIAN?

      At 100. Or will Boeing and Airbus be considered Russian, because they have parts made in Russia? No, for some reason everyone calls the Boeing an American, and they don’t complex about the details of foreign production.
      Quote: Armeec
      What is bad for example TU-334?

      And what is good? Compared to the same superjet?
      1. AVV
        AVV 2 December 2013 15: 49
        +7
        It’s good when there are several, different opinions, you need to collect statistics and after that only draw conclusions about the planes! And do not listen to the biased comments of interested persons !!!
      2. BBM
        BBM 2 December 2013 17: 24
        -12 qualifying.
        Quote: Rakti-Kali
        At 100.

        100% nonsense. 85% of components are directly related to production either with Boeing or Airbus. That is, 85% of the funds from state subsidies for this miracle go directly to Boeing and Airbus. You won’t say anything interesting way to support the Russian aviation industry. And what kind of Russian design bureau created the project of this airplane do not tell me - however, I will tell you this Boeing
        1. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 2 December 2013 17: 57
          +6
          Quote: BBM
          That is, 85% of the funds from state subsidies for this miracle go directly to Boeing and Airbus

          Publish supporting financial documents.
        2. saturn.mmm
          saturn.mmm 2 December 2013 20: 33
          +5
          Quote: BBM
          And what kind of Russian design bureau created the project of this airplane do not tell me - however, I will tell you this Boeing

          Actually, "Boeing" is made by Russian engineers.
          http://topwar.ru/17835-samolet-mechtolet-ili-chto-delaet-boing-v-rossii.html
      3. igor.borov775
        igor.borov775 2 December 2013 21: 54
        +7
        Hi, The question was a little bit wrong, What is the localization of SUPER and what is the TU-334, Answer yourself this question and understand everything, With a civilian air fleet it’s just a disaster, attempts are made to really localize the production of IL-76 or rather modifications at a different level of development aviation equipment ,,, The same problem faces Carcasses, another handsome MS is approaching, They just started to carefully examine what is left and how much finance is needed to upgrade the entire aviation industry infrastructure, But there are many problems there, the only thing that so far is stable for RUSSIAN HELICOPTERS , Yes, and it’s too early to wait for something now, they will also say quietly about ANNA, Everyone ahead will clearly get out of the pit that we were helped to create on the site of our aviation or not,
        1. Gluxar_
          Gluxar_ 3 December 2013 05: 28
          0
          Quote: igor.borov775
          Hi, The question was a little bit wrong, What is the localization of SUPER and what is the TU-334, Answer yourself this question and understand everything, With a civilian air fleet it’s just a disaster, attempts are made to really localize the production of IL-76 or rather modifications at a different level of development aviation equipment ,,, The same problem faces Carcasses, another handsome MS is approaching, They just started to carefully examine what is left and how much finance is needed to upgrade the entire aviation industry infrastructure, But there are many problems there, the only thing that so far is stable for RUSSIAN HELICOPTERS , Yes, and it’s too early to wait for something now, they will also say quietly about ANNA, Everyone ahead will clearly get out of the pit that we were helped to create on the site of our aviation or not,

          The difference between SSJ and carcasses is that SSJ is already produced in series and according to the wishes of the customer. But the carcasses are as they are, and the state must pay. GSS does not exist on public funds, but on loans from foreign banks.
          1. igor.borov775
            igor.borov775 3 December 2013 12: 02
            +2
            There is one caveat: Having made Sukhoi the main supplier of civilian products you managed to at least a little stop the downward movement of the entire industry, you just missed one moment all cooperation collapsed and what was left was barely possible, but it was hopeless without finances, Ours is that can’t produce anything high quality on a world level Maybe !! Another question is how to deploy it all into mass production, Stop moaning here that all our rubbish is now being tried at the expense of the budget for the defense industry to turn everything back to normal, the only way you can understand all these decisions that were made recently, The bet has almost been made on Ulyanovsk and to Irkutsk, from these aircraft factories located in these cities the start of new aviation equipment should take place, there are some shifts that are difficult to judge, but apparently the control over the creation of this industry cluster is starting to tighten, and the Jets will be collected as it was now an attempt expand the assembly of these machines by attracting the Chinese, but it’s too early to judge, And the new technologies that make noise here are enough for us all the problem is how to start it all, But this is really a problem, Even the Moscow Region raised this problem, Somehow, after the serial production starts, it starts rising prices for components, But this problem will have to be seriously solved, Lukashenko, no matter how I treat him, raised another The region and what to say, he’s right one hundred percent, although our liberals are not happy with such an unexpected blow to the prestige of the system that we have created, And although negative news about our industry and banks has flashed more somehow, we said goodbye to the old KAMAZ The series went completely another car under the old brand and production will increase, good news? Definitely!
    2. Slon1978
      Slon1978 2 December 2013 08: 35
      23
      Come on ... In the civil aircraft industry there is no urgent need to have a fully domestic component component, because it's not about defense, but about a purely commercial product. The Chinese are now world leaders in shipbuilding, they build most of the tonnage, but nevertheless the overwhelming number of ships are equipped with western engines (Wartsila, RollsRoyce, Cummins, Catterpillar, etc.). The Chinese retain the lion's share of the additional product, but they also give the equipment manufacturers a living. What's bad about it? To listen to you "offended for the power" - so it is worth developing everything in the Russian Federation first - to the last bolt, and then start selling and producing it - only by that time no one will buy these aircraft, tk. technology will step forward. And where to get the money, Zin, for a technological breakthrough and new models - if you do not participate in sales?
      1. alone
        alone 2 December 2013 19: 31
        -1
        Quote: Slon1978
        . And where to get the money, Zin, for the technological breakthrough and new models - if you do not participate in sales?


        and there is no money. they simply do not. all that could have been withdrawn already over a hill. and all that they did not have time to be kept in Western banks in the form of reserves. request
      2. Gluxar_
        Gluxar_ 3 December 2013 05: 32
        +1
        Quote: Slon1978
        Come on ... In the civil aircraft industry there is no urgent need to have a fully domestic component component, because it's not about defense, but about a purely commercial product. The Chinese are now world leaders in shipbuilding, they build most of the tonnage, but nevertheless the overwhelming number of ships are equipped with western engines (Wartsila, RollsRoyce, Cummins, Catterpillar, etc.). The Chinese retain the lion's share of the additional product, but they also give the equipment manufacturers a living. What's bad about it? To listen to you "offended for the power" - so it is worth developing everything in the Russian Federation first - to the last bolt, and then start selling and producing it - only by that time no one will buy these aircraft, tk. technology will step forward. And where to get the money, Zin, for a technological breakthrough and new models - if you do not participate in sales?
        All right. Although it is desirable to produce everything in the Russian Federation, but if there is no such possibility, then you need to buy wherever there is. The most important thing is that the plane is produced and it flies well. The project is actually very positive, when I just started talking about it, I had doubts. Especially after the events of 2008, it seemed that they would close the shop. Well, no, business is business and Western partners have done their part of the work with dignity.
    3. The comment was deleted.
      1. queen
        queen 2 December 2013 08: 56
        14
        Quote: Slon1978
        In the civilian aircraft industry, there is no urgent need to have a fully domestic component, as it's not about defense capability, but about a purely commercial product.

        Our country is not small, so we are obliged to do everything ourselves for anyone. This is both employment and the development of technologies. It would be great not to depend on third-party suppliers. They are better from us)
        1. Shadowcat
          Shadowcat 2 December 2013 19: 40
          0
          The highlight is that these suppliers are interested in taking these planes. To put it simply, "Sukhoi takes the product from us. The more Sukhoi planes are bought, the more they buy products from us. Therefore, it would be nice to tell my friend Pedro that the Sukhoi plane is good."
          In the case of purely domestic, on the contrary, thoughts go differently "X does not take the product from us. The more X planes are bought, the less we can sell products to Y planes, because they do not take them. Therefore, it would be nice to tell my friend Pedro that it is better to take the plane U ".
          1. Gluxar_
            Gluxar_ 3 December 2013 05: 33
            0
            Quote: ShadowCat
            The highlight is that these suppliers are interested in taking these planes. To put it simply, "Sukhoi takes the product from us. The more Sukhoi planes are bought, the more they buy products from us. Therefore, it would be nice to tell my friend Pedro that the Sukhoi plane is good."
            In the case of purely domestic, on the contrary, thoughts go differently "X does not take the product from us. The more X planes are bought, the less we can sell products to Y planes, because they do not take them. Therefore, it would be nice to tell my friend Pedro that it is better to take the plane U ".

            This is called cooperation.
      2. velikoros-xnumx
        velikoros-xnumx 2 December 2013 10: 06
        10
        Quote: Slon1978
        Come on ... In the civilian aircraft industry there is no urgent need to have a fully domestic component, because it's not about defense capability, but about a purely commercial product.

        I absolutely agree, but the Tupolev planes, and in particular the Tu-334, were undeservedly crushed by the Armenian "lobby" in the person of Poghosyan angry , as well as other groups (Yakovleva, Mikoyan).
        1. Ezhaak
          Ezhaak 2 December 2013 14: 19
          0
          Quote: velikoros-xnumx
          undeservedly crushed the Armenian "lobby" in the person of Poghosyan

          This speaks only about one little things. The ability to properly deliver the business managers of the company. Only.
        2. ytqnhfk
          ytqnhfk 2 December 2013 18: 17
          +7
          I feel a set of minuses but it doesn’t really bother me! My opinion is a cool guy Poghosyan - who is he? - Correctly, the head of an air corporation if I were in his place I would do the same because you need to work to strengthen the country and pay people if you can’t prove that your plane is the best — then you won’t receive any orders or money! But differently, in the country many were bought by the West and they are brazenly lobbying our own developments because this is a loss of the market and many millions of dollars! The market not only in Russia but also in the world, as practice shows, is the plane that is needed and needed by everyone!
    4. kris
      kris 2 December 2013 09: 12
      0
      Quote: Armeec
      All this is certainly good, but how many percent is this plane RUSSIAN? And do not say that this is world practice, little by little the best. Okay, we don’t know how to make mobile phones, but we can build airplanes. .As Vereshchagin said - ,, It's a shame for the state, Why is it bad for example TU-334?

      here is a hitch.
      if there is a conflict with the geyropa, they will quickly cut off the supply of spare parts and all the dupers will joke.
      1. Midshipman
        Midshipman 2 December 2013 10: 35
        14
        And we will block the gas and the whole of Europe will become a joke.
      2. fzr1000
        fzr1000 2 December 2013 12: 32
        +5
        Do not block, profit is more important. You can always find someone who offers something bypassing sanctions. Or, at worst, they will sell a license.
        1. stranik72
          stranik72 2 December 2013 20: 49
          +2
          Keep your pocket wider, tried to buy a license for a shish engine in oil received.
    5. tilovaykrisa
      tilovaykrisa 2 December 2013 09: 46
      +5
      Yes, all the filling in it is not of Russian production, our only glider is there, everyone fucked the mercenaries, tu204 and that rotten in order to please a superjet like cooperated with foreigners.
      1. Felix2012
        Felix2012 2 December 2013 19: 15
        16
        TU 204 ruined the Tupolev Design Bureau, a disregard for the operators
        Here is a quote from the airline
        Despite the fact that our other company Blue Wings invests private money in the purchase of Western equipment and is able to do it yet, Red Wings is in a state of petitioner with the UAC. Tu-204 is an aircraft designed for the 27st century, and it has everything to work safely and efficiently. But the characteristics of the aircraft are artificially worsened by people in the Design Bureau. Tupolev. These people make him uncompetitive. I have extensive experience working with Western aircraft manufacturers Airbus and Boeing. Both companies hold large conferences two to three times a year to discuss aircraft operation topics. The operators are asked about what needs to be done to make the aircraft better. They also pay us for this. In Russia, the situation is absolutely the opposite. We send to the Design Bureau our recommendations on how to make an aircraft efficient, and do it not constructively, but change the package of documents. They tell us: pay the money. I already paid the money by buying this plane, and you should thank me for knowing how to make the plane efficient. I lose 134 thousand rubles. on each flight to Hurghada only because the design bureau for a 11st century aircraft applied the technical transit service regulations that were still applied on the Tu-XNUMX. No one has it, but we have it. We still have the discharge of liquid from the toilet included in the category of maintenance, and, accordingly, in a non-basic airport, I must have engineers who will do this. The same goes for operating, loading, and everything else. The situation with spare parts is generally disastrous. XNUMX months ago I placed an order to buy windshields.
        Until now, the order has not been completed. The situation with brake pads is generally ridiculous. Brake pads do not work and a third of the assigned resource, and they are not on the market. There is no alternative supplier of spare parts and assemblies. Every day I am disturbed by various "spider bugs" who call and offer the same units, but only for cash. We do not buy anything for cash, because we have clean, transparent accounting. The artificial shortage, I am sure, is created by people who work in these enterprises. Unfortunately, we and KB speak different languages. If you look at the structure of Boeing - Civil Aircraft, you will see five to ten people in the top management who used to work in air transport. They headed both the technical departments and the airlines themselves. They understand what the operators need. Only the presence of such a whip as free access to the market of Western aircraft will make the design bureau and the UAC turn before us.


        Again the evil Poghosyan is to blame ?? !!
        1. alone
          alone 2 December 2013 19: 34
          -2
          Quote: Felix2012
          Again the evil Poghosyan is to blame ?? !!


          There is no healthy competition. That's the problem. The one who invented the tender is smart. Pay to the one who suits this and the whole industry is yours. Checked for years.
          1. Felix2012
            Felix2012 2 December 2013 20: 45
            +1
            There is competition: Boeing, Airbus, Embraer, Bombardier
        2. stranik72
          stranik72 2 December 2013 21: 00
          -2
          Don't read Russian newspapers. The problem is not in the OKB; in principle, it is no longer there. The problem is in the system and Poghosyan is a very necessary person in this regard, his own for those who ruin the Russian aircraft industry. Your quote "But the characteristics of the aircraft are artificially deteriorated by people in the Tupolev Design Bureau" gives you a person who is very far from the essence, worsens the characteristics of the AR IAC there is such an organization in the Russian Federation that is engaged in aircraft certification, so it is really a clear and very effective enemy of the Russian aviation industry, and all complaints about it come across the Russian authorities who indulge them in this. The supply of the spare parts is managed by the UAC, changing the ED is again the IAC AR without it and you cannot sneeze, in short. As for the whip in the form of free access to the western market, even discuss it with a middle-class tröpmanegr.
    6. common man
      common man 2 December 2013 09: 49
      -1
      In fact, all the electronics of a modern airplane are like 100000 mobile phones. But we do not know how to make them.
    7. starshina78
      starshina78 2 December 2013 12: 22
      +7
      Everything is correct! We can build airplanes, and the fact that many imported parts are used when assembling the Superjet does not mean that this aircraft is not Russian. Now everything in the world is based on the principle that why invent something new if someone is already doing it well. Therefore, a product with a label of a well-known company does not mean that this product is completely made of parts from this company. Everything is done in conglomeration with other firms. And as far as gritting everything Russian is concerned, comedians from the Comedy Club are the best at it. Oh, they are trying their best! But, alas, Medvedev is dancing with them, which means they are out of control. Almost the entire Higher School of Economics (HSE) can be connected to them, these are also very good at Russian. For them it is like a red rag for a bull.
    8. EvilLion
      EvilLion 2 December 2013 13: 09
      -2
      Everyone has been aware of this for a long time, the idiotic rear-engine layout, the 3 man’s carriage, is overweight, that is, it was archaic even at the beginning of the 90s.
    9. Sirs
      Sirs 2 December 2013 14: 25
      +1
      Who developed the basic units and funded their aircraft can be considered. IMHO
    10. Felix2012
      Felix2012 2 December 2013 18: 52
      +3
      Suppliers for AN-148
      - air conditioning and boost - from Liebherr (France);
      - all radio communications, FMS consoles and radio altimeters - from Rockwell-Collins (USA);
      - course-lines - from Litef (Germany);
      - batteries - from Varta (Germany);
      - Generation channels (EPGS) - from Thales (France);
      - Sockets, relays and contactors - from Deutsch (France);
      - all wires and cables - from Raychem (UK);
      - icing indicators and fire-overheating sensors - from Vibro-Meter (Switzerland);
      - hydraulic filter units - from Pall (Germany);
      - a water-vacuum system (simply a toilet) and all "plumbing" - from Monogram (USA);
      - tires - dunlup
      - all lighting equipment - from Hella (Germany);
      - EVEN the helms, and those from Crouzet (France), perhaps for the first time in the history of domestic (in the sense of the CIS) aviation ...

      ... well, and the little things ... in the end - total:
      47 manufacturers from 12 countries plus 34 manufacturers from Ukraine - it turns out that the 81 manufacturer is not from Russia and for their share, EVERY aircraft, approximately VASO should put about $ 18-20mln!

      And how much then remains for the share of manufacturers from Russia? AND? And who thought that?

      And if you suddenly think about the airlines ... Our, of course, airlines.
      Then all these "elements" from time to time refuse - well, what about geography, is it fun? from here

      From the Russian components of the An-148, enlarged:
      - KSEIS;
      - self-propelled guns and emf;
      - fire extinguishers - automatic and manual;
      - oxygen equipment;
      - radio compass, radio navigation system, glonass, air traffic transponders;
      - units of hydraulic systems;
      - units and fuel control and indication system;
      - emergency beacons and radio stations;
      - electric cranes, some sensors ...
      - passenger seats1
      - wheels, tires2, brakes
    11. Felix2012
      Felix2012 2 December 2013 19: 08
      +2
      TU 334 is a retarded aircraft with an unsuccessful design. All the equipment remained in Ukraine, and they are asking for a lot of money.
      In general, the government gave money three times for the production of TU-334, only now they are all stolen, there is no production. Apparently, thieves who want to steal money again are pleased for the production of TU-334 ...
      1. stranik72
        stranik72 2 December 2013 21: 03
        0
        "In general, the government gave money three times for the production of TU-334"
        Promised, but never singled out.
      2. Edward
        Edward 2 December 2013 21: 41
        0
        Quote: Felix2012
        In general, the government gave money three times for the production of TU-334, only now they are all stolen, there is no production. Apparently, thieves who want to steal money again are pleased for the production of TU-334 ...
        Felix, but from here you can draw the exact opposite conclusion. Namely:
        - Foreign lobby in the Russian aviation industry, is squandering Russian developments.

        Two examples.
        1. The fall of Boeing in Kazan.
        2. many years of lobbying for permission so that foreign pilots could be crew commanders in the Russian Federation.

        Now there is another reason for the lobby to talk about the inability of local people to fly, etc., including about poor development, let's say the same TU-334, supposedly much worse than everything that is in the world)) If only there is nothing to create in Russia and do not fix.
        So who looks like a thief here?
        1. Edward
          Edward 5 December 2013 18: 37
          0
          http://news.yandex.ru/yandsearch?cl4url=rbcdaily.ru%2Fsociety%2F562949989850312&
          lang = ru & lr = 213
          "Foreign pilots will be able to work in Russian airlines" - this foul news was expected.
    12. Gluxar_
      Gluxar_ 3 December 2013 05: 25
      0
      Quote: Armeec
      All this is certainly good, but how many percent is this plane RUSSIAN? And do not say that this is world practice, little by little the best. Okay, we don’t know how to make mobile phones, but we can build airplanes. .As Vereshchagin said - ,, It's a shame for the state, Why is it bad for example TU-334?

      The plane is 100% Russian. But foreign partners are involved in the project. Just like our Avisma supplies the most important components for Boeing engines, moreover, in many respects 100% of all deliveries.
      Moreover, the share of localization in the Russian Federation even of foreign nodes is constantly increasing. So do not worry about this, because the plane has not even reached the planned pace of production. When it comes out, I think the localization will reach 80-90% and will grow every year. Regarding the trim, this is a separate conversation, but there are also progress in this direction. It is important to understand that the plane goes to Western markets, this has never happened before.
  2. Revolver
    Revolver 2 December 2013 06: 37
    21
    But this proposal aroused on the Internet network hamsters that make fun of everything Russian, whether it is buckwheat groats ...
    And I basically buy only Russian buckwheat, although it is more expensive. Basically, here, even in "Russian" stores, they sell under the guise of Russian Chinese (all the inscriptions are in Russian, and below in small print Product of PRC), but if you look closely, you will almost always find Russian.
    1. Serg 122
      Serg 122 2 December 2013 17: 33
      +5
      Recently, several small Chinese airlines announced their intention to buy 50 SSJ100s.

      But this is not necessary! And then in half a year a new product - "ChinaSuperjet" will fall out on the market ..... laughing
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. tronin.maxim
    tronin.maxim 2 December 2013 06: 42
    +6
    Everything is clear here, the work of liberalists! It doesn’t matter that we do the most important thing for them to do. But abroad (albeit not everywhere) people are sane. If it has proved to be good, then the low price should be taken!
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 2 December 2013 07: 13
      +5
      Quote: tronin.maxim
      Everything is clear here, the work of liberalists! It doesn’t matter that we do the most important thing for them to do. But abroad (albeit not everywhere) people are sane. If it has proved to be good, then the low price should be taken!

      Meksa has not yet thought of diluting with kerosene donkey urine *.
      wassat

      * © Alibabaev Vasily Alibabaevich, "Gentlemen of Fortune".
  5. bomg.77
    bomg.77 2 December 2013 06: 43
    11
    At least one article in defense of Superjet and Poghosyan, otherwise only for poor Tu-334
    1. Apollo
      Apollo 2 December 2013 09: 13
      +2
      Quote: bomg.77
      At least one article in defense of Superjet and Poghosyan,


      I suppose either you are a relative or have friendly or friendly relations with the above type. Otherwise, what is the reason for you to defend him so violently.
      1. bomg.77
        bomg.77 2 December 2013 10: 31
        +4
        Quote: Apollon
        I suppose either you are a relative or are in a friendly or friendly relationship with the above type.
        Do not think correctly.
        Quote: Apollon
        Otherwise, what is the reason for you to defend him so violently
        The reason is that you need to listen to two sides, for objectivity, it helps! When I hear "DRY" I associate with supplies, new technologies, and new contracts, and with TU, only complaints and groans, what a bad Pogosyan.
        1. Dmitry 2246
          Dmitry 2246 2 December 2013 11: 19
          +9
          It is very pleasant to read a positive article in the morning.
          I wish the project Dry success.
          I trust the election of the president of the country regarding Pogosyan 100%, you can recall Mikoyan and the designer, and the pilot, and even the minister.
          A moment and now the embodiment of power and horror for American pilots.
          I am very calm about any nationality and there are enough heroes and scoundrels for everyone.
          It must be remembered that the state is defined by borders.
          And in our country there is enough of everyone.
        2. Apollo
          Apollo 2 December 2013 11: 34
          17
          Quote: bomg.77
          Do not think correctly.

          So everyone with his own opinion.
          Quote: bomg.77
          The reason is that you need to listen to two sides, for objectivity, it helps!

          I absolutely agree with this promise.
          Quote: bomg.77
          When I hear "DRY" I associate with supplies, new technologies, and new contracts

          And another aircraft concern, what doesn’t count ?!
          Quote: bomg.77
          but with TU, only complaints and groans, what a bad Poghosyan.

          In fact, it is not the Sukhoi concern itself that annoys me, but a personality like Poghosyan. There are a lot of talented engineers and designers in the concern and in the Russian aviation industry in general. If you proceed from your logic, then the Russian aviation industry will die ?! Your logic is strange.
          I categorically believe that Poghosyan’s policy is harmful and vicious, even more so, criminal for the aviation industry of the Russian Federation. I smashed the entire aviation industry of the Russian Federation for myself.We need competition in the aviation industry and not monopoly.Now I am observing only monopoly on the part of Poghosyan. Tomorrow my uncle aunt daughter-in-law and eventually all my relatives. I turned the aircraft concern into my own estate, you see. Where such a policy will lead, I think it's not hard to guess.

          PS
          I won’t be surprised at all. When, in a couple of years, dad Poghosyan will hand over the reins to the concern, his son. It’s time to stop this vicious practice. This is not a family shop and patrimony but the property of the whole Russian people.
          1. Apollo
            Apollo 2 December 2013 12: 07
            -1
            In continuation of the written.

            Quote: bomg.77
            When I hear "DRY" I associate with supplies, new technologies, and new contracts, and with TU, only complaints and groans, what a bad Pogosyan.


            While you are arguing here how Poghosyan is a chick, a wonderful fellow and his boyfriend on the board, innocent people are dying in Russia. Simple citizens. Now look at the photos who will answer for this ?! New civilian aircraft for the aviation industry of the Russian Federation would be produced on time and would not have to look at these terrible shots. Look and do not look away, and then think in your own words.







            1. smart ass
              smart ass 2 December 2013 13: 02
              +3
              What pogosyan shot down this plane ???
              1. Apollo
                Apollo 2 December 2013 13: 13
                +1
                Quote: Clever man
                What pogosyan shot down this plane ???

                No need to explain and poke fun, the forum is about the grief of the families of those killed in the crash.

                The following quote is especially for you if you have poor eyesight.

                Quote: Apollon
                Would be produced on time New civilian aircraft for the aviation industry of the Russian Federation and would not have to look at these terrible shots
                1. Cherdak
                  Cherdak 2 December 2013 13: 41
                  +6
                  Quote: Apollon
                  New civilian planes for the aviation industry of the Russian Federation would be produced on time and would not have to look at these terrible shots.


                  Do not confuse sour with solid. And especially not jump on other people's bones. Tragedies have always been, and your approach is disgusting
                2. Rakti-kali
                  Rakti-kali 2 December 2013 17: 30
                  +5
                  Quote: Apollon
                  No need to explain and poke fun, the forum is about the grief of the families of those killed in the crash.

                  And you do not use someone else’s grief as an argument in the dispute, have respect for people who have lost loved ones.
                3. EvilLion
                  EvilLion 3 December 2013 01: 20
                  0
                  No, it’s not Pogoshye’s fault, but you personally, and don’t try to argue.
            2. Rakti-kali
              Rakti-kali 2 December 2013 17: 28
              +4
              Quote: Apollon
              While you are arguing here how Poghosyan is a chick, a wonderful fellow and his own guy on the board, innocent people die in Russia. Simple citizens.

              Poghosyan personally, threatening with a pistol, forced the airlines not to purchase modern aircraft and obliged him not to carry out repairs and maintenance?
              1. Apollo
                Apollo 2 December 2013 17: 54
                -4
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                Pogosyan personally, threatening with a gun,

                You were present in person, by the way a criminal offense and is punishable by law, let's go further
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                forced airlines not to buy modern aircraft

                You have documented everything and filmed all this, I hope in the video, then provide the facts. This very minute.
                Quote: Rakti-Kali
                and obligated not to carry out repairs and maintenance?

                You are not tired of driving bullshit here, maybe there is evidence on this score ?! You are free.
                1. Rakti-kali
                  Rakti-kali 3 December 2013 13: 39
                  -1
                  Quote: Apollon
                  You are not tired of driving bullshit here, maybe there is evidence on this score ?! You are free.

                  Your doctor didn’t tell you that you should not skip taking medications, because schizophrenia is an insidious disease, an aggravation can always happen.
          2. Cherdak
            Cherdak 2 December 2013 12: 28
            10
            Quote: Apollon
            In fact, it is not the Sukhoi concern itself that annoys me, but a person like Poghosyan.


            Is it like your old ethnic hatred?
            The roots of M. Poghosyan from Nagorno-Karabakh — the mother’s parents ended up in Moscow in 1924-1925, after the revolution, and his father - during the Great Patriotic War, after being wounded.

            Maybe you will appreciate him not because he is from an Armenian family, but simply an excellent designer and a keen leader? Mikhail Aslanovich is clearly worthy of being appreciated for what was specifically done.
            1. Apollo
              Apollo 2 December 2013 12: 44
              -5
              Quote: Cherdak
              Maybe you will appreciate him not because he is from an Armenian family, but simply an excellent designer and a keen leader?


              What side did you find yourself in Finland and do not live in Russia ?! Helping Finland is much more important than Russia, isn't it ?!
              As for its roots, I didn’t even try to find out for myself, it was you, not me, who put on God's light and public viewing, his autobiography.
              And finally, the last Russian aircraft industry should be led by a Russian and not a person of a different nationality. Is this my answer that suits you ?!
              1. Cherdak
                Cherdak 2 December 2013 13: 39
                +5
                Quote: Apollon
                You were in Finland and do not live in Russia ?!


                Yes, I’m from St. Petersburg, only the cottage is painfully far away.

                Quote: Apollon
                Russian aircraft industry should be led by Russian and not a person of a different nationality.


                That's the number! And then what kind of Tupolev? What about Sikorsky? Something does not fit, good mister.
                1. Cherdak
                  Cherdak 2 December 2013 14: 00
                  +8
                  Mikoyan Artem Ivanovich - p. Sanahin, Tumanyan region of the Armenian SSR - Soviet aircraft designer.

                  To delete it from history too? On the 5th article, so to speak. Since he was not an Azerbaijani, he couldn’t come up with anything himself?
                  1. Cherdak
                    Cherdak 2 December 2013 16: 55
                    +3
                    For me, anyone with a Russian passport is Russian. And the point. Be it even with Alpha Centauri.
                    1. lilit.193
                      lilit.193 2 December 2013 23: 48
                      +1
                      Quote: Cherdak
                      For me, anyone with a Russian passport is Russian

                      Yes, you old man is cosmopolitan rootless. wink And minus you just for that.
                2. silver_roman
                  silver_roman 2 December 2013 16: 08
                  -4
                  Well, at the expense of Sikorsky, you shouldn't have remembered ... that mother-in-law "patriot" ...
                  dumped as soon as the fried smell.
                  Well, your essence is clear!
                  1. Cherdak
                    Cherdak 2 December 2013 17: 21
                    +9
                    Quote: silver_roman
                    Well, at the expense of Sikorsky, you vainly remembered ...


                    It's not for us to judge him. Igor Ivanovich was a decent person who did not violate this oath. It’s just that life turned too cool. I had to leave.

                    In exile, he headed the Tolstoy and Pushkin societies, studied philosophy and theology, and also took part in the activities of the monarchist movement. Sikorsky was a member of the Sovereign Conference in 1920-1930, organized by Kirill Vladimirovich, and was also a member of the Russian National Union in America, close to Ivan Solonevich’s “captain’s headquarters movement”.

                    The beginning of his activity in the USA was very difficult. So, it is known that the outstanding Russian composer Sergey Rakhmaninov personally participated in his enterprise, holding the position of vice president. To save Sikorsky’s company from ruin, Rachmaninov sent a check for $ 5000 (about $ 80000 in 2010). In 1929, when the financial condition of the company improved, Sikorsky returned the money to Rachmaninoff with interest.

                    This means that the oath should be given only once. Seen enough of the "democrats" who publicly burned their membership cards. Betraying times, betraying again.
                  2. saturn.mmm
                    saturn.mmm 2 December 2013 20: 39
                    +1
                    Quote: silver_roman
                    Well, at the expense of Sikorsky, you shouldn't have remembered ... that mother-in-law "patriot" ...
                    dumped as soon as the fried smell.

                    Could you please describe in more detail how Sikorsky dumped.
              2. funt12
                funt12 2 December 2013 14: 29
                15
                The Russian aircraft industry should be led by talented aircraft designers, not Russians, Armenians, etc.
              3. The comment was deleted.
              4. silver_roman
                silver_roman 2 December 2013 15: 58
                +4
                Quote: Apollon
                And finally, the last Russian aircraft industry should be headed by Russian and not a person of a different nationality

                and then the Ministry of Defense should also head the Russian ??? let's not delve into the roots and origin. That, even though he is a Chukchi, if only the sense was from his leadership, if only the industry grew ...
                as they say: "Russian is not a nationality, it is a state of mind!"
              5. EvilLion
                EvilLion 3 December 2013 02: 52
                -1
                Russian national complexes do not suffer, however, yes, there were many citizens with the surname na -yan faithfully serving Russia and glorifying it in it, but there is no one to remember from Azerbaijan. Kasparov, perhaps, and that Armenian Jew and.
              6. EvilLion
                EvilLion 3 December 2013 02: 55
                0
                And yes, if in the republics there weren’t national cadres with Russian deputies to somehow manage, but those who would be appointed from Moscow, even if he were Chukchi, then the Union would still be standing.
          3. bomg.77
            bomg.77 2 December 2013 13: 11
            +2
            Quote: Apollon
            In fact, it is not the Sukhoi concern itself that annoys me, but a person like Poghosyan.
            I even know the reason for this stress)))
            Quote: Apollon
            The concern has a lot of talented engineers and designers and in general in the aviation industry of the Russian Federation.
            Undoubtedly, there are engineers and designers, but you forgot that you still need to be a good organizer and leader and have a punchy character, Poghosyan, in my opinion, has these qualities, therefore, "Sukhoi" and achieves its goals.
            Quote: Apollon
            .Now I am only observing monopoly on the part of Poghosyan. Tomorrow my uncle aunt daughter-in-law and finally all my relatives. I turned the aircraft concern into my own estate, you see. Where such a policy will lead, I think it's not hard to guess
            When you write Apollo about your son and about your father, remember about the Aliyevs, or are you against the fact that Ilham became president after Heydar Aliyev))
          4. user
            user 2 December 2013 14: 45
            +2
            I do not understand what you write with kerosene?
            Maybe the Armenian name just turns you on or is it a purely national trait.
            Well, maybe just a good leader and organizer to have that name? We in the aviation industry say that Komsomolsk on the Amur was just lucky. The man managed to keep production in difficult times, provided work and managed to keep the collective. Superjet, whether someone likes or not the first production passenger plane in Russia, and not what we got from the USSR.
            1. lazy
              lazy 3 December 2013 05: 53
              0
              the difficult time is the 90s and where does Pogosyan and Komsomolsk, the director of the design bureau in the 90s not, the director of the plant not pogosyan. I do not need to ascribe other people's merits to him
        3. stranik72
          stranik72 2 December 2013 21: 11
          -1
          Poghosyan, almost 50% of the money allocated by the state for the development of civil aircraft manufacturing in the Russian Federation was driven into the superfood, thanks to him, KB TU and IL, factories in Omsk and Saratov were bent and did a lot of things so that the time would come and he would be recognized as the same leader in the field of aircraft, like labeled and Yeltsin.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    2. Anubis Gorynych
      Anubis Gorynych 2 December 2013 10: 05
      +3
      yes, indeed, interesting. And then for several years I saw a lot of criticism. Including the accusation against Gauleiter Medvedev, under which the superjet got a "start in life", that he cut down other more viable projects.
      It’s not worth it, however, to forget that this is still not a 100% Russian product. I was only pleased that there was a hope that he would bring some benefit to our Motherland ...
    3. Cherdak
      Cherdak 2 December 2013 12: 23
      +7
      Dates of the first flights for 2013:
      1 95032/12.02.13/06 _ 95031. 03.06.13 11/95034/28.08.13 _ 16. 95040 02.11.13/XNUMX/XNUMX _ XNUMX. XNUMX XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX
      2 95025/22.02.13/07 _ 95036. 20.06.13 12/95035/15.09.13 _ 17. 95042 12.11.13/XNUMX/XNUMX _ XNUMX. XNUMX XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX
      3 95028/24.03.13/08 _ 95009. 29.06.13 13/95037/26.09.13 _ 18. 95041 21.11.13/XNUMX/XNUMX _ XNUMX. XNUMX XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX
      4 95027/27.04.13/09 _ 95029. 02.07.13 14/95038/06.10.13 _ 19. 95043 01.12.13/XNUMX/XNUMX _ XNUMX. XNUMX XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX
      5. 95030 20.05.13/10/95033 _ 09.08.13. 15 95039/18.10.13/XNUMX _ XNUMX. XNUMX XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX

      And also 2013 has not ended.

      "Birds, fly, fly, through midnight, and the sun is at its zenith. ..." (c)
  6. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 2 December 2013 06: 55
    +4
    no need to rub us that the jet is purely Russian development! it's a Lego constructor ...
    1. Cherdak
      Cherdak 2 December 2013 14: 04
      +6
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      this is a Lego constructor


      And for sure, you can’t tell! And why did Poghosyan suffer? Would buy sets and deal with the end.

      Tell the Tupolevites - let them urgently go to Denmark. That's where the aviation paradise is! There even the Legoland park is completely made from Lego
    2. Felix2012
      Felix2012 2 December 2013 20: 56
      +6
      Only for some reason, “true patriots and specialists”, equating the entire Russian component of the cost of SSJ, exclusively with the cost of materials, assembling the airframe and its units, pretend that this airframe miraculously appeared out of nowhere, “out of thin air”. And immediately with all the aircraft systems (fuel, hydraulics, SCR, electrics), pipelines, electric harnesses, fuel tanks ... It’s all about shoving racks with imported blocks and valves into empty seats, and connecting pipes and connectors to them. Then they will “agree” with each other - which of them, to whom and how many working fluids, air and electricity should give out, what signals and in what sequence to exchange. They are “smart” - imported, after all. Supporters of the theory of creating an SSJ in the form of “assembling finished parts from a children's designer,” probably believe that only when developing aircraft with Russian components, Tupolevsky, Ilyushinsky and Antonovsky designers needed to be able to design, grow their school, calculate the design, blow models in pipes, test. And with import systems, you don’t need to be able to do anything, just like in Lego - you select from the common heap and dock the “bricks” and the plane is ready, and no worse than any Boeing and Airbus, you just have to fly around it, and Type Certificate in your pocket. And you don’t have to spend a lot of money on TsAGI, TsIAM, LII, SibNIA, on purges, static and resource stands, SDE-shny algorithms, frequencies, flutters and other “turbidity”. True, you still have to spend a little on maintaining science for the PAK FA and MIGarey. Enough Russia has its own fighters, and the creation of transport and passenger aircraft can be ordered in developed countries that can design them (USA, France, Ukraine, Brazil, China ...), and then rivet them under license at their plants (VASO, KAPO, AVIASTAR and etc.). At worst, you can just buy ready-made planes from the same countries.

      However, all over the world, the ownership of an aircraft (like any other product) is determined by the one whose design bureau designed the product itself, and not by where it was assembled under license, or by the percentage of its components. And all the converse statements are from the evil one. The costume, designed, tailored and sewn in Versace’s workshop from Indian fabric and with Chinese buttons, will not become Indian or Chinese from this. All rights to this model will belong to Versace and no one else. Designed by Ilyushinsky Design Bureau Il-76, after its manufacture in Tashkent, it is still a Russian aircraft, and the An-140, assembled in Iran or on Aviakor, is Ukrainian in both cases. For the whole world, the ARJ-21 will always remain Chinese, and the Mitsubishi will remain Japanese, no matter who makes the systems for them and wherever these aircraft are assembled later.
  7. pawel1961
    pawel1961 2 December 2013 06: 56
    +4
    it’s good that they did the plane from scratch. Well, I can’t understand why the funds were given to those who did not engage in civil aviation. neither of which I have against dry KB, but still it is primarily fighters. Why reinvent the wheel?
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Slon1978
      Slon1978 2 December 2013 08: 42
      +6
      I think that we are talking about a certain developed culture of production at Sukhoi, and they were instructed, because there was a good deal of confidence in the impact. You can sit and lament that Poghosyan lobbied everything, they brought him everything on a silver platter, and we are so fluffy and good and know how to design airplanes, but they gave us nothing. But as you know, the one who is lucky is lucky. In this example, it can be translated as follows - those who moved in difficult times, kept their developments at their own expense, fought and received export orders, kept the team, and did not just sit and "rot" in anticipation of government money and orders, he set the sail before anyone else, when this money appeared. Therefore, I received "Sukhoi", and the fact that they know how to master other means - there is no doubt about it. And probably even something would have been built too, but I repeat - those who are lucky are lucky.
    3. Rakti-kali
      Rakti-kali 2 December 2013 17: 35
      0
      Quote: pawel1961
      Well, I can’t understand why the funds were given to those who did not engage in civil aviation

      And the Tupolevites were also given money, only they were stupidly losing their time ... uh-uh ... lost.
  8. And Us Rat
    And Us Rat 2 December 2013 06: 58
    10
    The recent catastrophe in Kazan made many people wonder: why buy foreign air junk if we have our own new aircraft?


    What for? His Majesty Rollback. request
  9. lotar
    lotar 2 December 2013 07: 11
    +3
    Any project will be developed in stages. I hope that when the SSJ100 will be equipped only with domestic components, when their number in the world will exceed the combined aircraft of the same class of such companies as Airbus, Boeing, Embraer, Bombardier. Well, this is only the first bird, and after it others will appear.
  10. Laserson
    Laserson 2 December 2013 07: 52
    +8
    Strange questions about how Russian SuperJet is? For some reason, no one asks about such a question about Boeing, although they are also going to the whole world.
    1. Serg 122
      Serg 122 2 December 2013 17: 47
      +3
      No, of course it would be very nice if the Superjet were purely Russian. But since it didn’t happen like that, you should probably pay attention to the fact that the plane turned out to be very worthy, albeit in collaboration with someone ....
      As for TU brand aircraft, one can recall recent articles about how Tupolev himself crushed no less talented designers and their designs. (Of course, being also no less talented). Just was in favor at court ....
  11. svskor80
    svskor80 2 December 2013 08: 05
    +6
    According to one of them, domestic airlines simply do not have enough directions where such an aircraft is in demand.

    Wow. In our vast country now we have to fly everywhere through Moscow or shake endlessly on the train. We also need such flights within the country, naturally with inexpensive tickets.
  12. Stinger
    Stinger 2 December 2013 08: 34
    +6
    We always scold those who do something. Who does nothing, there’s nothing to blame. Break into the international market, it must be able to! It is simply amazing with such a mess with aviation in our country. And we do not need to look for thoughtful critics with us, they are always available.
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. HAM
    HAM 2 December 2013 08: 37
    +1
    We can’t get through the fashion of cherishing all our soviet thinking ..
    1. Apollo
      Apollo 2 December 2013 09: 04
      +3
      quote-Why is SSJ100 criticized in Russia, but in Mexico it shows more than good results? There are several versions. According to one of them, domestic airlines simply do not have enough destinations where such an aircraft is in demand. Another possible reason: the Mexicans got more technically advanced machines, they are no longer from the top ten, but seriously, taking into account all the comments, improved (this assumption is also supported by the fact that in Aeroflot the average daily flight time of the SSJ100 is steadily growing today was reported to have exceeded 7 hours). Probably, black PR and prejudice to the car of some of our "aviation specialists" also play a role.

      According to one of them, domestic airlines simply do not have enough directions where such an aircraft is in demand.
      1. Nonsense.
      Another possible reason: the Mexicans got more technically advanced machines, they are no longer from the top ten, but seriously, taking into account all the comments, they were finalized
      2. I totally admit.
      Probably, black PR and prejudice to the car of some of our "aviation specialists" also play a role.
      3. Delirium.Since when is criticism punishable. A large fundamental and strategic mistake has been made in principle:
      3.1.That was entrusted only to the Sukhoi concern and personally to Poghosyan.
      Work on the creation of medium-haul aircraft was to be carried out in parallel with the Yakovlev concern.
      3.2.I consider it necessary to expand the rights of the FSB. Provide the FSB with the right of control for execution of decisions all companies involved in defense, shipbuilding, rocket
      trip and aircraft manufacturing.
      1. fzr1000
        fzr1000 2 December 2013 12: 43
        +3
        3.2. I consider it necessary to expand the rights of the FSB. To provide the FSB with the right to control the execution of decisions by all companies involved in defense, shipbuilding, and missile
        trip and aircraft manufacturing.


        In current realities, this is a double-edged sword. The FSB is not the KGB. Further, you yourself know everything.
      2. kaktus
        kaktus 2 December 2013 17: 09
        +4
        but this version: they sell an export version abroad recourse
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. The comment was deleted.
  17. rekrut
    rekrut 2 December 2013 09: 36
    +2
    Just someone profitable to buy other people's planes.
    1. Apollo
      Apollo 2 December 2013 09: 39
      +8
      Quote: rekrut
      Just someone profitable to buy other people's planes.

      Loot, loot and again loot.

      1. kris
        kris 2 December 2013 09: 47
        +6
        Quote: Apollon
        Loot, loot and again loot.
        1. Apollo
          Apollo 2 December 2013 09: 49
          +6
          Is it only Russia ?! In my opinion, all the countries of the entire post-Soviet space.
          1. kris
            kris 2 December 2013 09: 57
            +1
            Quote: Apollon
            Is it only Russia ?! In my opinion, all the countries of the entire post-Soviet space.

            it is a fact.
          2. alexng
            alexng 2 December 2013 12: 54
            +2
            And not only the countries of the post-Soviet space, but all the countries of the world. Only there, in another way, all this is called -type bonuses. But the essence of this does not change.
          3. The comment was deleted.
          4. escobar
            escobar 2 December 2013 18: 01
            -7
            You are the enemy of Russia, go to your fucking Aliyev
        2. dimon-media
          dimon-media 2 December 2013 10: 31
          +1
          Corruption in other countries is no less than in Russia. Only we hear little about it and speak little about it for well-known reasons. For example, in the USA, talking about corruption is not politically correct. Just like black is called a nigga.
  18. ReifA
    ReifA 2 December 2013 10: 07
    0
    To criticize - not to build, not to offer - mind is inappropriately.
  19. Evgeniy46
    Evgeniy46 2 December 2013 10: 14
    +5
    if someone does not know - Yakovlev Design Bureau and Ilyushin offered to participate in the development. However, they refused, having designed only a number of aircraft systems. Sukhoi Design Bureau in general should be thanked for preserving the lion's share of aircraft designers. While other design bureaus in the 90s were distributing space and waiting for money, the Sukhovites made new projects and modernized the existing ones. As a result of this, PAK FA and SSJ were born - if anyone does not know, Yakovlev and Ilyushin Design Bureau were invited to participate in the development. However, they refused, having designed only a number of aircraft systems. Sukhoi Design Bureau in general should be thanked for preserving the lion's share of aircraft designers. While other design bureaus in the 90s were distributing space and waiting for money, the Sukhovites made new projects and modernized the existing ones. As a consequence, PAK FA and SSJ-100 were born
  20. sheih_merden
    sheih_merden 2 December 2013 10: 20
    +5
    There is a little trick with which foreign planes look better than ours - this is pre-flight training (maintenance). In foreign aircraft, it is usually more expensive, more solid and takes longer. And the bottom line is the number of replaced (so to speak consumable) parts and assemblies, because the list of consumables and assemblies on our aircraft is much smaller than on the western ones. Just a resource on our nodes is much larger, and change them less often.

    On western aircraft, even when leaving the factory, there is a list (in the form of a maintenance manual), where all weak and structurally deficient components are subject to constant and periodic replacement, under the guise of maintenance. You can sell the plane cheaper, money ..., anyway, you will return it for maintenance (spare parts). In foreign countries, even everything is mounted so that any unit can be easily and quickly replaced. And our airplanes unfortunately (for reasons completely opposite) are very difficult to repair. And the complete critical wear and tear of our airplane can occur much earlier, although all nodes are more durable. And our payback, due to lower maintenance costs, is much faster.

    And it is precisely this situation that forces many people who do not want to think to consider the quality of Russian and Soviet aircraft to be low compared to Western ones. Although the situation is exactly the opposite.
  21. The comment was deleted.
  22. kapitan281271
    kapitan281271 2 December 2013 10: 22
    +4
    Come on, only the countries of the former union !!!! There are no kickbacks in the states, there is no corruption, there is no crime. The country is the most corrupt and the most sawing budget, and our stupid people have a good mind enough for a new villa on a reviera or a yacht, and in the most democratic country, the guys of the presidents are felling, and if you can work hard with babosy, it’s possible to arrange September 11 so that kickbacks and corruption which only with us I would not say so.
    1. dimon-media
      dimon-media 2 December 2013 10: 33
      +1
      +++! I just wrote about it a little higher :) I completely agree.
  23. erofich
    erofich 2 December 2013 11: 18
    0
    They write about Tu334, but they don’t know the details. Tu334 is an outdated design, made according to the canons of the 70s, but time is something else. And all Tu-type aircraft were outdated constructively, just a very long time ago. The Tupolevs did not want to make planes at the right time, but they shared money and something else, but now they are reaping the benefits. Although independent bureaus are needed for the competition and survival of the fittest.
  24. 1c-inform-city
    1c-inform-city 2 December 2013 11: 20
    +1
    Such kickbacks as in the west we only dream about.
  25. Chicot 1
    Chicot 1 2 December 2013 12: 06
    +3
    Yes, at least take advantage of the already promoted "Super-Jet-100" from Senor Poghosyan, as well as the Mexicans who bought it, and domestic air carriers will still prefer not it, but the An-148 (and the future An-158) assembled from Russian components at Russian factories ... Yes, and the comrades from the Lubyanka preferred the "Ukrainian" Antonov, and not the "effective" Poghosyan. And this is a very indicative fact ...
    As for the Mexicans ... Yes, to health, let them buy ...

    An-148 - a plane for the Russian sky! ..
    1. Cherdak
      Cherdak 2 December 2013 12: 36
      +4
      Quote: Chicot 1
      domestic carriers still prefer not him, but An-148 (and in the future, An-158)



      Preliminary for 2013:

      19 publicized "Super-Jet-100" tongue
      5 An-148
      3 An-140
      1 IL-96
      1 Tu-214

      While 29 aircraft. And in December, another 2-3 Superjets will definitely be raised. Well, maybe one An-148.

      65% of the output is a real achievement.

      An-168 is the same An-148, only with a VIP cabin. And with An-178 - nothing:
      President of Motor Sich Vyacheslav Boguslaev noted that the development of a new aircraft will require about $ 150 million and the state budget of Ukraine is unable to allocate such an amount. In his opinion, the company expects to receive the necessary funds from the Russian United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), a partner of Motor Sich

      those. again, Russia will beg for money, the same Pogosyan. repeat
    2. Cherdak
      Cherdak 2 December 2013 17: 28
      -5
      Quote: Chicot 1
      An-148 - a plane for the Russian sky! ..


      An-148 production is deployed at the facilities of the Aviant Kiev aircraft plant in Ukraine and the Voronezh Aircraft Engineering Society (VASO) in Russia. In Voronezh, the construction of serial An-148 is under Ukrainian license.

      I will agree with the title if this license is canceled
      1. Felix2012
        Felix2012 2 December 2013 18: 50
        +2
        So who has more imported components? And if you take into account that for Russia, that deliveries from Ukraine, that from the west is still a currency, and at the same time, a prerequisite is half of the assembly - Ukrainian (although much of this can easily be done in Russia - the chassis, for example), rises it is a legitimate question, what is Russian in it, and where is more than the western one? Can ROCKWELL COLLINS supply solders or does DUNLOP deliver the rubber compound to the Yaroslavl tire factory?

        And how then to claim that the An-148 is a Russian aircraft? Top hypocrisy!

        On SSJ, at least understandable contractual conditions under which the appearance of Russian co-executors is only welcome. For example, it became necessary to introduce a data concentrator into avionics, but Thales did not have time to develop it. We took advantage of the development of UKBP as a temporary hut. But this decision turned out to be so successful that Thales included him in his composition. By the way, he successfully passed not only Russian, but also European certification.

        You should stop fooling people about where there is more imported, and who sponsors whom. The fact that the main money from the An-148 goes to Ukraine is without a doubt.

        Yes, the people of Kiev developed an airplane, made prototypes on their knees, were able to conduct certification to a minimum (for such inventiveness they are worthy of respect). They even managed to make a car for sale from an experimental car (and this is admirable), but the whole burden of preparing the production and launching the series fell on Russia, and this in any case is no cheaper than all the previous costs. Any industrial economist knows this very well.

        In civilized countries, with this approach, they enter into business on an equal footing. But in this case, these conditions were dictated by ANTK. And the fifth column in Russia helped him in this. And for greater persuasiveness, we launched an unprecedented, shameless PR company. So arrogant and rude that they did not even consider it necessary to answer the GSS.
  26. IOwTZ
    IOwTZ 2 December 2013 12: 25
    +2
    Quote: Laserson
    Strange questions about how Russian SuperJet is? For some reason, no one asks about such a question about Boeing, although they are also going to the whole world.


    Let these Boeings gather all over the world. We must assemble our aircraft at home, in Russia, from Russian components. We are a leading aircraft manufacturing power, so let them adapt to us. I don’t consider SSJ a Russian airplane, our candy wrapper, everything else in it is jobs, the economy, the brains of other countries that our beloved president pays. For this aircraft (SSJ), the runway must be cleaned so that there is no speck left, as engines are very low.
    1. Cherdak
      Cherdak 2 December 2013 13: 50
      0
      Quote: IOwTZ
      SSJ I do not consider Russian aircraft


      Sergey, how old are you?
      You then do not consider all Soviet tanks to be Soviet, but persistently call them Christie tanks, designed by John Christie and made in the USSR on the basis of prototypes. The USSR purchased several tanks and used them in the development of the BT-2 and T-34.
      And about planes in general, I'm afraid to scare you.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 2 December 2013 15: 09
        +2
        Quote: Cherdak
        Sergey, how old are you?

        I'm over 40, but I think the same.
        Quote: Cherdak
        You then do not consider all Soviet tanks to be Soviet, but persistently call them Christie tanks, designed by John Christie and made in the USSR on the basis of prototypes.

        You are now comparing an assembly of components to buying and borrowing other people's ideas. And these are different things. The fact is that in recent years the Russian economy has been integrated into the global corporate system. At VAZ, GAZ now everything comes down to screwdriver assembly of foreign cars. Someone may say that there is nothing wrong with this, our people are working. But this is a small-town opinion. We have a great country, and great, talented people, and we should never forget this, and develop our homeland and not someone else's. hi
        1. Cherdak
          Cherdak 2 December 2013 15: 48
          +1
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          At VAZ, GAZ now everything comes down to screwdriver assembly of foreign cars


          I just remind you that GAZ is Ford, VAZ - Fiat, the former AZLK - Opel.

          Quote: Ingvar 72
          We have a great country, and great, talented people, and we should never forget this, and develop our homeland and not someone else's.


          And who is arguing?
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 2 December 2013 15: 59
            +4
            Quote: Cherdak
            I just remind you that GAZ is Ford, VAZ - Fiat, the former AZLK - Opel.

            We, too, once reminded us of tadpoles. laughing
            1. Cherdak
              Cherdak 2 December 2013 16: 20
              +2
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              We, too, once reminded us of tadpoles.
  27. The comment was deleted.
  28. Algor73
    Algor73 2 December 2013 12: 28
    +5
    You can't sing odes and shout praises (pump money and place orders) only to one KB. Even under the USSR (with a planned economy) there was competition, a competition of projects. We no longer hear about the projects of Yakovlev, Tupolev, Il switched to modernization ... I do not argue that the SSJ-100 is a good plane, but ... Some wrote that in the 90s only Su worked, and the rest of the areas were rented ... Su wasn't the only one who worked. The MiG also worked. But thanks to military orders. And Sukhoi, thanks to the SSJ-100, significantly improved his financial position without having practice (hence the increased financial costs) in designing civil aircraft. Now the project can be called successful, but in the long term the state has lost from this project.
    1. arnulla
      arnulla 2 December 2013 13: 33
      +6
      MS-21 will be Yak-242. This is about KB Yakovlev ...
    2. lazy
      lazy 3 December 2013 06: 04
      0
      look how much export was delivered in the 90s and how many Su, it was precisely military orders that allowed Sukhoi not to lie upside down and upgrade production, in moment 29 export potential was worse than money
  29. kartalovkolya
    kartalovkolya 2 December 2013 12: 30
    +2
    Yes, it all boils down to the formula: “Business is business and nothing personal!” Sell as many Dry supers as possible, but make your own for domestic airlines, otherwise, looking at the dominance of foreign air traffic, I stopped flying altogether (scary)!
  30. kartalovkolya
    kartalovkolya 2 December 2013 12: 30
    +1
    Yes, it all boils down to the formula: “Business is business and nothing personal!” Sell as many Dry supers as possible, but make your own for domestic airlines, otherwise, looking at the dominance of foreign air traffic, I stopped flying altogether (scary)!
  31. Horde
    Horde 2 December 2013 13: 35
    +1
    Sukhoi "in exile. Why is our plane scolded at home and praised in the West?"

    Well, that’s my favorite Temka from done, they don’t stop looking at her and do not boast about the super-duper and are ready where not to kiss at least in the ass.
    In general, how much can you suck the superfood? because the plane is not ours, and even the name is imported, our people on the entom airplane do not earn anything and there’s nothing to say here ...
  32. VyacheslavMA
    VyacheslavMA 2 December 2013 13: 40
    +2
    Maybe you will appreciate him not because he is from an Armenian family, but simply an excellent designer and a keen leader? Mikhail Aslanovich is clearly worthy of being appreciated for what was specifically done.


    Go to the KnAAPO workshop and say that they stumble you there. This leader makes people work for a penny almost 12 hours a day. The staff loss of up to 30% per year, the working atmosphere is depressing. Do not like Wali. Working from eight in the morning until late in the evening and on Saturdays, the master will receive 30-50, a worker up to 70, an engineer about 20.
    Quality suffers from this. The guys building super jets do not recommend flying on it. When the first plane was handed over to the Armenians, this Armenian was so pumped up with vodka that he signed everything.
    Before Poghosyan, it was not bad at KnAAPO with him, many fleeing or dreaming, it’s just difficult to escape from the comic.
    1. alex popov
      alex popov 2 December 2013 14: 53
      +8
      Quote: VyacheslavMA
      The guys building super jets do not recommend flying on it.

      You know, I would be dumb, honestly, to have such "guys" as friends, from the category: we did this, I do not advise using ...
      In my life I follow the practice: it is better to do nothing than to make a marriage. And I naturally despise rukozhopov, not for natural ineptitude, but for "and so it will do" ... And if your "guys" know that they have made a marriage and at the same time consistently go for a salary ... then they are for 20 and 000 100 will do marriage, because marriage is, first of all, a lack of production culture, and not "I am paid little." I'll give you an example. Ural Locomotives produce 000ES2ES6,2 - new electric locomotives developed from scratch for Russian Railways. Ukrainians, Kazakhs, Belarusians tear them off with their hands. Orders for hundreds of locomotives in advance. They are easier to manufacture than airplanes, who would argue, but the work culture is maintained there, and the same hard workers who receive 10 re with processing are proud of what they produce. Although people are everywhere different, there are "fuckers" at every production facility, but I have never heard from anyone on the Locomotives: this is de..mo, do not drive it ... The money, as you can see, is comparable. But the attitude ... There were problems with the new "top ten", they were solved, they were looking for options, there were problems with the bandage, then they were completely removed from transportation, the subcontractors were doing a lot. the problem with wheelsets was solved for almost a year, but they were solved. And no one ever said ... it's a threshing floor, don't take it ... New production, new mechanisms, problems always arise. And they can and should be solved ...
      In general, your post smacks of marginalization and an attempt to throw a fan ...
    2. user
      user 2 December 2013 15: 01
      0
      VyacheslavMA SU Today, 13:40

      This leader makes people work for a penny almost 12 hours a day. The staff loss of up to 30% per year, the working atmosphere is depressing. I do not like wali.

      And to collect empty bottles is not better, there is not a standardized working day. And secondly, because if you think that it is wrong to change jobs, and not cry in a vest. We who didn’t like it all went to trade, only as you sit with a glass of tea with them they still remember how they worked on the assembly and production at the factory, although now they have much better money than at the factory.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 2 December 2013 15: 25
        +5
        Quote: user
        And to collect empty bottles is not better, there is not a standardized working day. And secondly, because if you think that it is wrong to change jobs, and not cry in a vest.

        The standard excuse of all managers is not to pay a decent salary. I work in a different field, but when I raise the question of raising, the answer is the same - I do not like it, go ahead. The price of finished goods is growing, but the salary is the same as 5 years ago, but managers have an overwhelming bonus. Labor Code does not work, no liability.
        And to collect empty bottles is not better, there is not a standardized working day.
        With this logic, you can return to the 90s, then the designers and engineers did just that.
        1. Cherdak
          Cherdak 2 December 2013 17: 09
          -4
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          and the salary is the same as 5 years ago


          The average wage is 42 rubles.
    3. Cherdak
      Cherdak 2 December 2013 17: 05
      +2
      Quote: VyacheslavMA
      makes people work for a penny



      Komsomol Aviation Plant invites you to work

      The average wage is 42 rubles.

      All professions are enrolled in training.
      Scholarship for students increased to 12 rubles.
      Lifting 166 rubles are paid.
      Nonresident hostel is provided.

      http://www.knaapo.ru/rus/personnel/vacancies/index.wbp
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 2 December 2013 17: 52
        +4
        Quote: Cherdak
        The average wage is 42 rubles.

        Zamanuha. The temperature in the hospital is also 36.6. Are top managers also averaged?
        1. Cherdak
          Cherdak 2 December 2013 18: 47
          0
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          Zamanukha.



          PHONES: (4217) 526-526, 526-555

          Call and make sure. You can’t keep people promises.
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 2 December 2013 20: 26
            +1
            Quote: Cherdak
            Call and make sure. You can’t keep people promises.

            I can give several phones in Togliatti. Such a salary is offered only by recruiting agencies where you need to pay, and then they will give a list of outdated vacancies.
            P.S. my s / n 12-13t.r. + leftist 8-10 t.r. but this is the maximum. hi
            1. Cherdak
              Cherdak 2 December 2013 20: 48
              0
              Then you urgently need to engage in the Komsomol Aviation Plant!

              Phones are direct, without intermediaries!
  33. runway
    runway 2 December 2013 13: 55
    +3
    Does the country need domestic civil aircraft? Unconditionally!
    If only because then not to end up in "bondage" with a Western manufacturer. Look - today we send Boeings to America for routine maintenance and Airbases to Europe .... Will tickets for the Super Jet be cheap if we buy 80% of the components for dollars? The "Super Jet" aircraft is new and still "raw" with its "troubles". For example, a landing gear designed for good runway coverage ..... Therefore, the firms that have bought this aircraft repair it more than operate it.
    Only on these grounds can it already be argued that domestic aircraft are REQUIRED for us. And if we take into account the creation of additional highly qualified jobs and the work of our industry in high-tech developments, then any doubts will disappear.
  34. runway
    runway 2 December 2013 13: 55
    0
    Does the country need domestic civil aircraft? Unconditionally!
    If only because then not to end up in "bondage" with a Western manufacturer. Look - today we send Boeings to America for routine maintenance and Airbases to Europe .... Will tickets for the Super Jet be cheap if we buy 80% of the components for dollars? The "Super Jet" aircraft is new and still "raw" with its "troubles". For example, a landing gear designed for good runway coverage ..... Therefore, the firms that have bought this aircraft repair it more than operate it.
    Only on these grounds can it already be argued that domestic aircraft are REQUIRED for us. And if we take into account the creation of additional highly qualified jobs and the work of our industry in high-tech developments, then any doubts will disappear.
  35. IOwTZ
    IOwTZ 2 December 2013 14: 18
    +2
    Quote: Cherdak
    Quote: IOwTZ
    SSJ I do not consider Russian aircraft


    Sergey, how old are you?
    You then do not consider all Soviet tanks to be Soviet, but persistently call them Christie tanks, designed by John Christie and made in the USSR on the basis of prototypes. The USSR purchased several tanks and used them in the development of the BT-2 and T-34.
    And about planes in general, I'm afraid to scare you.


    Soviet tanks produced in the Union from the bolt to the whole machine. Same thing on airplanes. What is now in Russian-made SSJ? I will answer you: the operators (not the pilots as in the Union) who look at the monitor and are pampered by how beautiful they are in the FOREIGN cockpit, and as soon as an emergency occurs, they don’t know what to do.
  36. IOwTZ
    IOwTZ 2 December 2013 14: 18
    0
    Quote: Cherdak
    Quote: IOwTZ
    SSJ I do not consider Russian aircraft


    Sergey, how old are you?
    You then do not consider all Soviet tanks to be Soviet, but persistently call them Christie tanks, designed by John Christie and made in the USSR on the basis of prototypes. The USSR purchased several tanks and used them in the development of the BT-2 and T-34.
    And about planes in general, I'm afraid to scare you.


    Soviet tanks produced in the Union from the bolt to the whole machine. Same thing on airplanes. What is now in Russian-made SSJ? I will answer you: the operators (not the pilots as in the Union) who look at the monitor and are pampered by how beautiful they are in the FOREIGN cockpit, and as soon as an emergency occurs, they don’t know what to do.
    1. Cherdak
      Cherdak 2 December 2013 14: 58
      +2
      Quote: IOwTZ
      What is now in Russian-made SSJ?


      The plane was developed in Russia, from scratch. There are no borrowings in it. Yes, indeed, the project involves more than 40 suppliers of systems and components from 10 countries. This was demanded by the market, the need to maintain the economic efficiency of the project from a business point of view. The use of Western systems and components - the best solutions of modern aircraft manufacturing - reduces development time, which is fundamentally important from the point of view of timely entry into the market, facilitates certification according to international standards and the organization of an after-sales service system. But all systems are supplied to the Russian integrator. And the intellectual property of the aircraft itself remains in Russia.

      Calculation of the share of imports in for 9 months of 2012

      import share: 54.03% (average for 3 quarterly reports)
      of which, engines: 13.165% (average share)
      import share, taking into account that half the engine is created in the Russian Federation: 47.43%
      however, the cost item "Purchased components, semi-finished products" is only 51.15% of the cost price (page 26 of the 3Q2012 report)

      Therefore, "purely to the west" went: 47.43% * 51.15% = 24.26%

      About a third of the cost of each Superjet goes west, and not 70-80-90% in any way, as critics of the project sometimes write about.

      According to the results of 2013, it is expected that the share will decrease to 25%
    2. Cherdak
      Cherdak 2 December 2013 15: 05
      +1
      Quote: IOwTZ
      Soviet tanks produced in the Union from the bolt to the whole machine.


      But this is thanks to Comrade personally. I.V. Stalin and the global crisis. You can now go the same way, but personally you obviously will not like it.

      The late USSR actively used cooperation within the CMEA framework, so you decide what period it is about.

      Russia is integrating into globalization, which is neither good nor bad. It's just that life now is such that somewhere someone is doing better and cheaper. There are critical nodes (especially dual-use), but there is something for which you should not bother, making it worse and more expensive.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 2 December 2013 15: 29
        +1
        Quote: Cherdak
        Russia integrates into globalization, which is neither good nor bad

        This is bad. Russia has always had its own path, and we have always been self-sufficient. hi
        1. Cherdak
          Cherdak 2 December 2013 15: 52
          -3
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          we have always been self-sufficient.


          Just remind me when? I do not know such a time in modern history or in earlier.
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 2 December 2013 15: 58
            +2
            Quote: Cherdak
            ? I’m such a time in recent history,

            Learn the story. In the USSR, more than 98 percent of the components of civilian aircraft were manufactured by us. It is not necessary to give an example of the facts of single purchases. hi
            1. Cherdak
              Cherdak 2 December 2013 16: 23
              +3
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              Learn the story. In the USSR, more than 98 percent of the components of civilian aircraft were produced here.


              Read at least GOST 19705-89 (ST SEV 4333 - 84) for power supply systems for helicopters and airplanes.

              For example: "IL-114."

              We can say that it was not just the Union that made it, but the whole socialist camp.

              Bulgaria was supposed to produce plumage, Poland - propellers and landing gears, Czechoslovakia - engine, passenger seats and trainers, Romania - detachable wing parts and fuel system. Yugoslavia - engine nacelles and mock model. A new turboprop engine was made in Leningrad, to reduce the noise level in the passenger compartment and on the ground at the Aerosila Design Bureau in Stupin, special six-bladed propellers made of composite materials were developed. The aircraft crew consisted of two pilots, at the disposal of which was the most modern dashboard with five color displays, digital flight-navigation complex TsPNK-114.
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 2 December 2013 17: 55
                +1
                Quote: Cherdak
                We can say that it was not just the Union that made it, but the whole socialist camp.

                I agree. So was the support of satellites.
                1. Cherdak
                  Cherdak 2 December 2013 18: 49
                  +2
                  Then there is no need to lie that "In the USSR, more than 98 percent of civil aircraft components were produced here."
                  1. Ingvar 72
                    Ingvar 72 2 December 2013 20: 34
                    -2
                    Quote: Cherdak
                    Then there is no need to lie that "In the USSR, more than 98 percent

                    The allegations of lies do not color you. stop Want to discuss the percentage of components?
                    1. Ingvar 72
                      Ingvar 72 2 December 2013 20: 55
                      0
                      Minus the answer? Strong argument. fool 98 percent is not my data, and they are not for one IL-114. hi
              2. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 2 December 2013 22: 21
                0
                Quote: Cherdak
                GOST 19705-89 (ST SEV 4333 - 84)

                I read it. Date of introduction 1990-01-01, the last days of the USSR. And what did you want to draw my attention to there? Not a single link to the production of components, only those. parameters. Why then links to GOSTs? fool
                Quote: Cherdak
                Czechoslovakia is the engine
                and right there
                Quote: Cherdak
                A new turboprop engine was made in Leningrad,
                ?????
              3. stranik72
                stranik72 3 December 2013 06: 18
                +1
                For example: "IL-114."

                We can say that it was not just the Union that made it, but the whole socialist camp.
                By this we tried to support THEIR they did according to our developments and according to our drawings and control.
                Only now they practically didn’t even manage to do anything, however, like TAPO and I who produced these airplanes.
  37. The comment was deleted.
  38. IOwTZ
    IOwTZ 2 December 2013 15: 13
    +1
    Quote: Cherdak
    Quote: IOwTZ
    What is now in Russian-made SSJ?


    The plane was developed in Russia, from scratch. There are no borrowings in it. Yes, indeed, the project involves more than 40 suppliers of systems and components from 10 countries. This was demanded by the market, the need to maintain the economic efficiency of the project from a business point of view. The use of Western systems and components - the best solutions of modern aircraft manufacturing - reduces development time, which is fundamentally important from the point of view of timely entry into the market, facilitates certification according to international standards and the organization of an after-sales service system. But all systems are supplied to the Russian integrator. And the intellectual property of the aircraft itself remains in Russia.

    Calculation of the share of imports in for 9 months of 2012

    import share: 54.03% (average for 3 quarterly reports)
    of which, engines: 13.165% (average share)
    import share, taking into account that half the engine is created in the Russian Federation: 47.43%
    however, the cost item "Purchased components, semi-finished products" is only 51.15% of the cost price (page 26 of the 3Q2012 report)

    Therefore, "purely to the west" went: 47.43% * 51.15% = 24.26%

    About a third of the cost of each Superjet goes west, and not 70-80-90% in any way, as critics of the project sometimes write about.

    According to the results of 2013, it is expected that the share will decrease to 25%


    I don’t even want to write anything
    1. Cherdak
      Cherdak 2 December 2013 15: 53
      0
      Quote: IOwTZ
      I don’t even want to write anything


      It pleases, so you will not throw noisy maxims, for which you will then have to blush
  39. crambol
    crambol 2 December 2013 16: 44
    +4
    I like the Superjet more than the Airbus A320, it seems that Interjet CEO Jose Luis Garza himself is amazed.

    Good news to God’s ears!
  40. Greenwood
    Greenwood 2 December 2013 17: 26
    +1
    Why is the SSJ100 criticized in Russia, and in Mexico it is showing more than good results?
    It may still be because we are accustomed to the fact that the country independently, on its own, produced a completely domestic aircraft with completely domestic components, which few could boast of, and did not assemble it in cooperation with several dozen states, as in the case of the SSJ100. This is quite normal for a small country that does not have a developed industry or its individual branches to ensure a full production cycle on its territory, but not for Russia. In addition, the promotion of SSJ is not very clear with a bunch of unrealized or openly ditched projects, such as Tu-204, Tu-334, IL-96, etc. (long to list).
    I admit that we are unable to produce normal cars (although this can also be questioned), so the solution to this situation may be the organization of the production of foreign cars in Russia, but aircraft building and shipbuilding are strategically industrial sectors, by the way, we have always been at their best and no worse than Western models, and therefore it causes rejection among citizens. Of course, the Mexicans do not understand this. For them, he is a ready-made foreign product.
    1. Felix2012
      Felix2012 2 December 2013 19: 06
      +2
      In short, the TU204, Tu334, IL-96 are ruined due to the fact that they are heavier than analogs, and hence there is more fuel consumption. ALL. The rest is not important, no one will voluntarily buy them !!!
      And CCJ is EASIER than competitors !! And engines are more reliable and economical !!! Therefore, this is a promising model of technology. And localization of production is ongoing. The Russian company will already produce the chassis, because it has confirmed certification. Those are the notorious standards for which Azarov demanded 160 billion greens)
  41. Felix2012
    Felix2012 2 December 2013 18: 47
    +3
    To all the "guardians" of the Russian AN-148 "
    List of Western Suppliers on An-148

    From the Antonov presentation, in Paris.

    ROCKWELL COLLINS CROUZET AUTOMATISMES LITEF PHILIPS LR DUNLOP GEVEN
    HONEYWELL LIEBHERR-AEROSPACE GOODRICH HELLA AEROSPACE DRIESSEN AIS
    ASCC THALES HAWKER VENTAIR
    CST C.E. DEUTSCH PALL
    LEACH INTERNATIONAL SOURIA STABILUS GMBH
    TYCO SOURIAU
    MONOGRAM
    MEGGIT


    And this is without taking into account the fact that the An-148 engines, APU, landing gear, part of the avionics, wing, half of the entire nose of the fuselage, the entire central part of the fuselage and center section are Ukrainian - that is, for Russia it is the same import.
    1. Cherdak
      Cherdak 2 December 2013 18: 52
      0
      Absolutely agree!

      Moreover, for this "miracle" Ukraine brazenly receives royalties!
      And he is trying to shove more into Russia with all his might.
    2. BBM
      BBM 2 December 2013 19: 28
      +1
      Quote: Felix2012
      And this is without taking into account the fact that the An-148 engines, APU, landing gear, part of the avionics, wing, half of the entire nose of the fuselage, the entire central part of the fuselage and center section are Ukrainian - that is, for Russia it is the same import.

      how Ukraine is just thinking about joining the EU or not. So right away, "yes, you brothers completely. There are gays alone, we are one people, the Ukrainian aircraft and mechanical engineering industry is zvizdets." And giving billions in injections into the Boeing budget is not pressing. So be friends after that ...
      1. Cherdak
        Cherdak 2 December 2013 20: 57
        +2
        In Voronezh, the construction of serial An-148 is under Ukrainian license. If Ukraine is drawn into the EU, then customs duties will increase and Ukrainian equipment will rise sharply. And there will always be a body (EU, NATO, USA) that will cover this business.

        And the fig of Russia such Julio Iglesias?

        From the joke: Because of the screen, the patient's confused voice: - Hy, doctor, let’s either go here or here. And your stupid "here-here-there-here" annoys me!
        1. BBM
          BBM 3 December 2013 00: 04
          -1
          Quote: Cherdak
          If Ukraine is drawn into the EU, then customs duties will increase and Ukrainian equipment will rise sharply.

          In the tragedy of how to import a complete set from the same European Union for the "Russian" Superjet, there is nothing. And from the thought of buying from the same EU (if Ukraine still enters there) for a much more Russian An-148 in fact - turns up the face? from their own hypocrisy is not sick ???

          Quote: Cherdak
          And the fig of Russia such Julio Iglesias?

          ask the managers of international co-operation of GSS who purchase components from these Iglesias (including Spain) ...
          êàî, it is useless to explain something.
  42. Felix2012
    Felix2012 2 December 2013 19: 00
    +1
    Ruined TU334, read to everyone !!!!
    But weakly ... again remember about the Tu-334 ...?



    We have already written a lot about such shortcomings of the “Carcass” as a three-membered cabin, outdated avionics, etc. This is just fixable - there would be a desire and intellectual resources. It’s much harder to fix the aerodynamics: you actually have to design a new plane. Chief Designer I. Kalygin admitted in a number of interviews that the “Carcass” requires a new wing and a new engine. I can add that the engineers who previously worked in the Tupolevskiy ZhLiDB and participated in the 334 tests (as engineers and pilots) sometimes ironically expressed that the car reached its ceiling “only due to the curvature of the earth’s surface”. I must say that this joke reflects the real features of the sun. RLE Tu-334-100 is available on the network in PDF format, which allows you to estimate the real LTH of an aircraft. The document describes the basic version - 102 economy class seats (the step of the chairs is 31 inches, two toilets), however, only one kitchen is indicated on the layout diagram. By the way, this equipment is close to 95007 Armavia - 98 economy-class seats (32-inch pitch, two toilets, a full-size kitchen in the back and a semi-kitchen in front).

    The following airplane weights are shown in the RLE: max. take-off - 47900 kg, max. landing - 43500 kg., max. useful load - 12000 kg, max. weight without fuel - 41650 kg. This gives an equipped weight of 29650 kg. On the website of the Airport, the figure is 30050 kg - perhaps this is for a two-class layout. Thus, with a payload of 10200 kg (102 passengers per 100 kg), 8050 kg remains for fuel.




    under ISA conditions, with a full cabin, 334 can fly at echelons no higher than 10100 ... 10600 m, at M = 0.73 ... 0.75, at a range of about 2 thousand km. VPHs are also not very impressive: the required runway length is 1900 ... 2100 m. When the temperature deviates from the ISA plus, the characteristics naturally decrease even more ... All these data are taken from the RLE (most likely for the experimental machine) and hardly nomograms in this the document was painted by “liberal liars” on the secret order of M. Poghosyan.



    So the reasons why there was no line of buyers for the plane are quite simple and obvious: the achieved characteristics do not correspond to the level of modern aircraft of a similar class. But it is much more tempting to explain all the problems with the secret machinations of enemies.
  43. Takashi
    Takashi 2 December 2013 19: 07
    +2
    maybe the forum admin will highlight a separate topic about SuperJet. At the same time, tanks, ... another four-thread? :) :)


    Is SuperJet a domestic product?
    This is a question from the plane - Lada (VAZ-2101) - our development, copying (with improvement), a gift from aliens?

    0. Creation
    0.1 In 2003, I personally held in my hands the drawings of SuperJet, then RRJ. All the drawings were in English, in the inch system, obviously not made in accordance with GOST, and the inscription was: Boeing's property.
    0.2 In general, even the development of the aircraft is going on quite interestingly. The point is that GSS has received and creates electronic models in Catia. And at Sukhoi (design bureaus and factories) they officially have CAD - Unigraphics. Therefore, a separate design unit in the SCAC in KnA is engaged in broadcasting models from Catia-> Unigraphics. With the correction of errors, and further transfer to the plant.
    0.3 Our designers - slightly corrected the design of the aircraft. The most noticeable change is the complete change in chassis and electrical equipment. (Remember copying the Tu-2 :) :))
    0.4 Transferring Boeing Blueprints -> GSS Was Absolutely Not American Philanthropy
    1) Boeing company - received a 20% price discount (and even more) for deliveries of TITAN from the VSMPO plant (Verkhnyaya Salda, Sverdlovsk region) for several years for its Boeing.
    For this, consent was obtained from the Government of Russia.
    2 *) “this is my personal opinion” - the Americans thus tried to demilitarize the military enterprise, slow down (for a certain period) or destroy the production of Sukhoi's military products (PAK FA, etc.).
    3) I don't think Americans see SuperJet as a competitor. It is enough to see how much BOEING produces per month and how much in KnA. Aviation enthusiasts - Russian-speaking so bluntly said that they produce a large civil aircraft at a military plant that does not have any stocks and premises, an obvious "utopia".

    2. Production
    2.0 Aircraft production and preparation in KnA began after
    in 2001, a large contract on the transfer of production of the Su-27 to China
    in 2002-2003 in KnA fulfilled a small contract for China (it seems, 20 cars) Su-33 ?? I won’t lie, I don’t understand these modifications, for me all these clones of the Su-27 are on one face, except for the Su-34).
    after 2003, the KnAAPO \ KnAAZ plant began to offer everyone the Be-103 and Su-80 (remember who-thread ?, there was such an airplane). But this plane was not initially successful. Suffice it to recall that 3-6 died during his test? test pilot. Moreover, Pekarsh (CEO) got on takeoff and a plane crash (takeoff from Khabarovsk to KnA, it seems 2004?). By the way, about 20 of these monsters are still standing in the sump at the airport - nobody needs coffins on the wings?
    It was necessary to somehow "occupy" the enterprise. The military did not need planes, the "repair" was "piece". It was then that the idea arose to produce civilian products. I don't know who slipped this "idea" into Poghosyan, but the idea was clearly not Russian.

    Here, someone wrote that KnAAPO was "lucky" that the plane began to be made in KnA. Not really. Especially if we remember that in those years 2004-2006 Shport was a deputy of the State Duma (former chief engineer of KnAAPO), who was a member of some kind of committee on military issues.

    The Ulyanovsk plant - "something" was producing, Chkalovskiy in Novosib (with his "smart" heads in Akademgorodok) - still can not normally start the serial production of the Su-34. Samara - initially focused on repairs and space themes. Kazan -?

    It was in such conditions that the production of the aircraft began. Those who wanted to began a gradual transition to the GSS. They proposed Moscow working conditions - salary for heaven :) :):
    In 2008, the number of GSS in KnA was ~ 800 people.

    2.1
    2.2
  44. Cherdak
    Cherdak 2 December 2013 19: 25
    0
    Quote: Takashi
    a separate topic about SuperJet.


    That way:

    http://superjet.wikidot.com
    http://www.sdelanounas.ru/sphinxsearch/?s=суперджет

    Frolic!
  45. Takashi
    Takashi 2 December 2013 20: 35
    0
    By the way, about Mexico

    1.0 Here is an example of the number of aircraft flying hours. It should be noted that despite the name "regional" - not so many airfields in Russia can accept this aircraft. And those who can easily accept Boeings / Airbus. I think that in small Mexico with its small open spaces the quality of airfields is higher :( :( :(
    45 minutes of summer is the distance from Khabarovsk to Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk
    1.1 Maybe we really achieved the build quality and fixed the flaws: landing gear release, air conditioning in the cabin, equipment problems, ..... in any case, the first passengers were "not very happy" about flying this car
    1.2 By the way, but the price for Mexico is incomprehensible to one aircraft? and the price of the same aircraft for Aeroflot?
    1.3 When buying an airplane, there is such a concept as a Service Center. In small Mexico - where the delivery of spare parts may not take much time, but in Russia - try it.
    1. Felix2012
      Felix2012 2 December 2013 21: 09
      +1
      Peculiarities of RRJ-95 aircraft operation at Aeroflot JSC
      … Obligations for the delivery of RRJ-95 aircraft to Aeroflot OJSC contain requirements for the SCAC's financial responsibility in the event of aircraft downtime due to the fault of SCAC CJSC.
      Such a requirement of the Operator, reasonable in the process of mastering new equipment, over time led to the fact that downtime of aircraft became a more profitable commercial enterprise than the operation of the aircraft.
      The overestimation of the requirements for the technical condition of the aircraft along with the insufficient filling of the operational documentation provokes the operator to direct the main forces to prove the guilt of the Developer, and not to solve specific problems of operation
  46. saag
    saag 2 December 2013 21: 00
    0
    Can anyone clarify why the MS-21 became known as the Yak-242? As far as I remember, cars with the Yak brand manufactured in Saratov Aircraft Plant, who rested in the Bose, what does the Yak brand have to do with this project?
    1. Felix2012
      Felix2012 2 December 2013 21: 12
      +1
      Yakovlev Design Bureau is involved in the development of MS-21. Their project is taken as a basis
  47. Zubr
    Zubr 2 December 2013 21: 04
    +3
    Hello ! Yes, the article is very good, the arguments given by the author are rather weighty. That's really really, maybe it's enough to scold ours? Okay, SSJ was going to the whole world, BUT THIS IS EXPERIENCE, and the experience of civil aircraft construction. There is no need to remember SOYUZ now, we live now and we need to do this now and support our manufacturer. Errors have always been, are and will be. Of course, it is very sad that people are dying because of the so-called "human factor". I have not yet met more than one person who is acting, active and enterprising who has not made a single mistake. And let the spiteful critics smoke on the sidelines. And we need, first of all, the STATE PROGRAM for retraining pilots for new aircraft and training new ones, as well as attracting experienced personnel who quit the ranks of the Air Force. Remember how much we lost during the collapse of the UNION, and it is much more difficult to create, maintain and learn to fly than to abandon and forget. Is there any of the pilots who flew the SSJ, can you give clear reasoned answers about this bird?

    PS While we scold our equipment, we scold ourselves.
  48. ism_ek
    ism_ek 2 December 2013 21: 32
    +2
    At Aeroflot, the entire business is built on kickbacks. There are no kickbacks from the superjet. Therefore, he does not fly in Aeroflot.
    Aeroflot buys Boeing for ten years. Now it turns out that there are not enough pilots. Demand foreigners. The question is, in ten years it was impossible to train pilots? Why are young GA pilots learning to fly a Yak-40?
    Here is a guide in Aeroflot.

    Regarding the large number of imported parts ... And you know, during the Soviet Union, even on military aircraft, he put imported engines and avionics. It’s not so easy to create a modern airplane from scratch. Sometimes it's cheaper to buy.
  49. NKVD
    NKVD 2 December 2013 21: 41
    +1
    Russia has always built the best airplanes. One of the Yak-42Ds is worth it, a record holder for reliability. But there were always people in Russia who were ready to sell its interests for money. And in the interests of foreign campaigns to buy foreign-made aircraft. And the SSJ in Mexico flies really much and often Take a look at http://www.flightradar24.com/23.75,-101.93/6
  50. saag
    saag 2 December 2013 21: 55
    +1
    Quote: ism_ek
    . You know, under the USSR, even on military aircraft, he put imported engines and avionics

    This is how, and KOKOM, and Johnson and Vanik?
    1. ism_ek
      ism_ek 2 December 2013 22: 42
      0
      Quote: saag
      Approximately 85 Nin and Dervent Rolls-Royce engines were sent to the Soviets. The British Air Force Attaché in Washington cabled to London about outrage in US military circles. Britain, in response, referred to the economic situation, "which is deplorable and has become similar to the situation in France" ...

      Reckoning for this deal came in November 1950. In the midst of the Korean War, the Russians stunned the West by deploying MiG-15 fighters that surpassed anything the United States and Britain could take into the air against them, until Sabers were deployed to Korea. In April 1951, Clarence Brown, a congressman from Ohio, announced that a downed MiG-15 was found to be equipped with an engine — an exact copy of those supplied by the British to the Russians.

      Washington categorically denied this, saying that the wreckage of the aircraft did not fall into the hands of the Americans. Brown's revelations seemed discredited. But the congressman was not far from the truth. The US government lied to preserve the Atlantic Alliance. It was true that not a single downed plane was found. But the Allies knew that the MiG-15 engine was indeed a copy of the Rolls-Royce Nene. Confirmation came after studying the plane, shot down several days after Brown's statement. London was forced to admit. that the 1946 decision to sell to the Soviets was a terrible mistake. ”

      http://www.politpskov.com/index.php/polit-info/1340-rolls-royce-derwent-nene.htm

      Before the war, in general, massively imported engines were purchased.
      http://www.airaces.ru/plane/voennye-samoljoty-sssr/sb.html
      1. stranik72
        stranik72 3 December 2013 06: 14
        0
        Before the war, in general, massively imported engines were purchased.
        But Yak, Ily, PE and Lavochkin already fought on Soviet (our) engines
        1. Rakti-kali
          Rakti-kali 3 December 2013 13: 55
          0
          Quote: stranik72
          But Yak, Ily, PE and Lavochkin already fought on Soviet (our) engines

          Yes, but the possibility of their creation has grown from the purchase of a license for the Spanish-Suiz and Pratt-Whitney.