Military Review

Revolution in the state defense order

38
Revolution in the state defense orderIn ria News A round table “Military Affairs - Competent Conversation” was held, at which Russian Deputy Defense Minister Yury Borisov and top officials or deputy heads of major state corporations and holding companies supplying weapons took part. The topic of conversation is the state defense order, its role in the implementation of the State Armaments Program until 2020.


Yury Borisov made a detailed forty-minute report. He described the situation with the production of weapons and military and special equipment (VVST), the implementation of the state defense order and changes in it compared with the previous period. It should be noted that a number of changes, I’m not afraid, of this word, are revolutionary. They affect the very foundations of the state defense order, change the relationship between the customer and the contractor, and contribute to the development of the defense-industrial complex of Russia.

WHY CONTRACTS BREAK OUT

By mid-November, the volume of government contracts for GOZ-2013 amounted to more than 95% of their planned volume. It is predicted that at the end of December 97,5% of the planned volume of all funds will be contracted. This is due to the fact that part of the funds (about 2,5%) will be directed to the construction of infrastructure facilities to accommodate and ensure the operation of new AMIS entering the troops.

The troops delivered more than 50% of the annual volume of the main types of weapons and military equipment. In accordance with the terms of the contracts, by the end of the year the volume of deliveries of the main types of weapons will be approximately 95%. The forecast is quite accurate, since it is clear that a number of enterprises have already broken the deadlines for the fulfillment of the state defense order, and for a number of contracts there are serious prerequisites for failure.

In particular, OJSC “Arzamas Engineering Plant” in the city of Arzamas cannot cope with the production of the BTR-80 and BTR-82A due to insufficient production capacities and qualified personnel. Due to the lack of risk assessment at the stage of pre-contract work of JSC “AVIAKOR - aviation plant ”in Samara was simply not ready for the production of An-140-100 aircraft. Scientific Research Institute of Steel in Moscow cannot fulfill the terms of the contract for the production of bulletproof vests 6B23-1, because the supplying companies have overestimated the prices of components, so delivery is not possible at the price announced at the tender. Nobody can influence them. We are talking about an inaccurate assessment by the lead contractor of their capabilities when entering the competition.

Another reason for the disruption of supply is the low quality level of manufacturing components and materials, as a result of which the final product does not withstand field inspections and, as a result, the final product, which leads to negative test results, as well as to massive failures in operation. As an example: the Ansat-U helicopter produced by Kazan Helicopter OJSC and the 40H6 rocket to the C-400 complex, manufactured by the Avangard Moscow Machine-Building Plant in Moscow.

These are the typical reasons for the failure of the state defense order that the MoD faces.

The decline in the quality of military products and weapons continues. This is evidenced by the growing number of complaints. If in the 2011 year the Ministry of Defense of Russia prepared a 2271 complaint, then according to the results of the 2012 year only 3154 claims have already been filed for basic samples. Growth - in 1,4 times.

The Ministry of Defense receives unfair suppliers in strict accordance with the terms of the contracts concluded and the norms of the current legislation. Fines are levied, the amount of which is set in the concluded contracts, as a rule, 5% for the fact of breakdown and 0,1% for each day of delay. For all the facts of non-fulfillment of contractual obligations, the Ministry of Defense of Russia organized the claim work.

SYMMETRICAL SANCTIONS

The violation of contractual obligations by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation did not attract any penalties or other sanctions. Therefore, the customer happened to break the contract himself, not translating the advance on time, not giving a sensible technical task or concluding a contract very late. In this case, the state defense order should be fulfilled in any case until the end of the current year. It happened that the MoD, as a result of the provoked penalties, received the ordered AMLTs practically free of charge, while the manufacturer suffered multi-million losses, slipping into bankruptcy.

Recently, the State Duma in the second and third reading approved a law equalizing in the rights of the customer and the manufacturer of weapons. For the failure of the state defense order through the fault of the customer also provides for penalties. Suppliers of cooperation should also be punished for disrupting delivery dates and breaching the terms of the contract. And the only bidders who won them, but refused to sign the contract.

In order to improve the quality of the samples developed by the Armed Forces of the Higher Military Service of the RF Ministry of Defense, the Institute of Military Representations is being restored. The number of military representatives at defense companies during 2013 – 2015 should be increased to that established by Decree of the President of the Russian Federation on April 22 2011 No. 504с “On the military missions of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation”.

At the same time, by the end of the current 2013, it is planned to recruit military missions for officer positions up to 80%, and for civilian positions - up to 85%.

The functions of the military representatives of the Defense Ministry at the enterprises for pricing control have been restored, events related to the effectiveness of their work, including the monitoring of the implementation of research projects, have been organized.

Often it is impossible to conclude a state defense order because of the absence of those who want to fulfill it. According to the deputy chairman of the military industrial complex, Oleg Bochkarev, cited by 21 in November at the first All-Russian conference “Procurement in the military-industrial complex”, 2013 did not take place in 200 bidding for the state defense order for 25 billion rubles, mainly due to the lack of participants. Dozens of trades worth 10 billion were canceled.
RBC daily, citing the deputy head of Rosoboronpostavka, Mikhail Ivanov, reports that of the tenders announced this year, only 73% ended with the conclusion of contracts. Total 1,2 thousand contracts concluded for 287 billion rubles.

“The state has to buy very expensive military equipment,” says Oleg Bochkarev. “Corruption and gray procurement schemes are flourishing in this area,” adds Ivan Polyakov, chairman of the branch office of Business Russia for the defense industry. - Dirty on the hand performers at the auctions achieve the lowest price, after which they get 80% advance payment and disappear. And the enterprises themselves, which did not cope with the order, can easily get a new one. ”

FULL CYCLE

In 2013, there was a small revolution in the state defense order system. An extremely important decision has been made to conclude government contracts for the entire life cycle for serial deliveries to the AMS. This solves a number of problems both of the Ministry of Defense and of defense industry enterprises.

The army will no longer engage in time-consuming current, medium and major repairs with modernization. Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu made a decision on the primary transfer of 40 repair plants - subsidiaries of the infamous Oboronservis OJSC to the Ministry of Industry and Trade, Rostec Group, UAC, USC and other integrated structures. The forces of military repair agencies will only perform service maintenance.

The repair plants of the Ministry of Defense were distinguished by a long cycle of repair and modernization, their high cost and low quality. Cases of large-scale thefts were regularly opened, when repairs were only on paper.

The transfer of repair in the hands of manufacturers will increase the number of combat-ready equipment in the army. And the defense industry enterprises themselves will be provided with work in the period between orders of large quantities of military equipment, calculated for years, which contributes to the preservation of workers' personnel and mobilization capacities.

However, defense enterprises will first have to carry out a deep modernization in their production, as they will have to introduce a number of new technologies. So, assembly production may well be suitable for disassembly, but it is unlikely to ensure the processing of large-sized parts. So you have to buy new equipment and entire production lines. However, if you conduct a competent engineering, it will be a flexible production, suitable for the production of machinery parts, and for their refinement in the process of repair and modernization.

Enterprises will have to create a developed service network, equip service centers with modern diagnostic and repair equipment, train specialists in service (repair). And in order for repairs to occur less frequently, it is necessary to create training centers for specialists of the Armed Forces on the basis of manufacturing companies.

In accordance with the Decree of the President of the Russian Federation dated 7 of May 2012 No. 603 “On the implementation of plans (programs) for the construction and development of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, other troops, military formations and bodies and the modernization of the defense industry complex” 3 June 2012, No. РД-П7-3277, the Russian Ministry of Defense, together with the interested military authorities, has begun work on creating a control system for the full life cycle of weapons, military and special techniques .

WEATHER FOR TOMORROW

The current HPV-2020 is to a large extent focused on complete procurement and repair of VVST - their share is of the order of 80% of the total allotment. This allows for maximum maintenance of the existing fleet of vehicles.

According to preliminary results of the implementation of the state defense order jobs Purchasing, repairing and servicing AMSE 2013 the end of the year we can predict increase in the share of serviceable equipment in the armed forces in comparison with the previous year. The HEAT health record will exceed 80%. The health of the most important IVST images will be close to 100%.

The state program of armaments involves improving the quality of equipment of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation in the first place by providing modern weapons, military and special equipment and bring it to 2020 year to 70-100%.

At the end of 2013 of the year, the level of equipment of the Armed Forces with modern AMIS is:
in the Air Force - 42%;
in the naval navy - 53%;
in the Ground Forces - 17%;
in the armies of the East Kazakhstan region - 57%;
in Strategic Nuclear Forces - 39%.

It is planned to increase the level of serviceability of existing weapons, now from 48 to 100%.

Execution of the LG-2020 measures will bring the end of the program period serviceability of AMSE: the Army - to 85%, in the Airborne troops - up to 100%, in the Air Force - not less than 80%, while in the Navy - up to 60% good combat ships.

REVOLUTION CONTINUES

The day after the roundtable at RIA Novosti deputy head of the military department, Yuri Borisov at a working meeting in the federal "instrument" scientific-production center reported that the Ministry of Defense reduces the range of weapons and military equipment for the Army. He noted that in accordance with the state program of armament-2020, the ministry is implementing a set of measures aimed at the effective development of the weapons system of the Ground Forces. “Their implementation should ensure a reduction in the range of purchased weapons and military equipment by 2025% by 25 and, accordingly, increase their serial production,” Borisov said.

“In terms of optimizing the type of weapons, military and special equipment of the Ground Forces, their unification and standardization, there are a number of positive examples,” the deputy minister explained. - It is the creation of armaments on the basis of the unified inter-specific tracked and wheeled platforms such as the "Armata", "Kurganets", "Boomerang", work on the formation and transition to a unified series of types of artillery caliber. "

Another revolutionary change has occurred in the development of new weapons. Research organizations Defense reassigned species (genera) troops and interspecific contentment bodies responsible for organizing the operation (use) AMSE, which will set new development AMSE with the desired performance characteristics and to provide the necessary level of feedback between developers AMSE and troops - direct by consumers.

In this regard, work is underway to form a system of promising military research, including including the development of new technological reserves and the development of the latest weapon systems and robotic complexes.

The military-scientific complex and research institutes as the advanced section of the Ministry of Defense of Russia transformed by the decision of applied scientific tasks for the benefit of the species and genera of troops, deliberately maintains military-scientific support of the application and development of the Armed Forces, as well as the development and testing of modern samples of AMSE with the required tactical -technical characteristics, which allows for the creation of such weapons, which is necessary for the Armed Forces.

Under the influence of scientific and technological progress, the forms and methods of warfare change. And this predetermines equipping the army with innovative models of weapons and equipment, providing:

functioning within the framework of a single information management space;
the use of high-precision hypersonic weapons, as well as weapons on new physical principles;
the use of unmanned attack aircraft systems, robotics;
the use of unified mobile land combat platforms, etc.

At the same time, the development of concepts for the development of military technological resources, the creation of a scientific and technical reserve for promising technology, including the development of basic and critical military technologies, should be among the main priorities.

In order to ensure the dynamic development of breakthrough high-risk technologies in the interests of national defense and state security, a Fund for Advanced Studies has been created.

It is about creating an innovative army of the near future. But in order to provide it with high-tech models of weapons and military equipment, it is necessary to create a scientific, technical and industrial-technological base of the new generation at the defense industry enterprises. And this is not so easy.

In parallel with the armament program, there is a program for the modernization of the defense sector. Enterprises, as a rule, do not have their own funds for large-scale technical re-equipment of production, and the use of public funds is subject to a number of conditions that, in effect, emasculate the whole point of their use.

For example, there is no cooperation with engineering firms. And without competent engineering in our time to create a modern, cost-effective and high-performance production is impossible. Another problem is the competitions prescribed by federal law. We have to buy from the winner low-quality cheap stuff - machines of gray origin without service and supplies of the appropriate tool. In addition, 50% of purchased machines must be produced in Russia. And this, as a rule, is the “iron” of the last century.

In general, there are still enough problems in the field of state defense orders. For example, there is more than once a pricing problem. It is gratifying that these problems are systematically solved. But I would like them to be solved somewhat faster. But here the main “reshalschiki” will not be the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and not the defense industry complex, but the deputies of the State Duma. Because problems should be solved first of all at the level of legislation. Another thing is that the Ministry of Defense and the DIC could step up lobbying efforts and take a more active part in the drafting of intelligible laws that promote science and production, rather than hindering their development.
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  1. andrei332809
    andrei332809 30 November 2013 09: 29
    20
    educational institutions must be re-created. starting from vocational school and ending with academies. and then everything and the order, and production will be completed on time and QUALITATIVELY
    1. MIKHAN
      MIKHAN 30 November 2013 09: 47
      12
      I agree to all 100! It’s necessary to disperse all these breeding academies universities colleges .. prepare some (in the Amer manner) Where are technical colleges and technical schools, etc. All that we have now started with vocational schools of vocational schools, technical colleges ... (from the magazines Young Technician, etc.) bl.blah blah managers and financiers ... angry
      1. Civil
        Civil 1 December 2013 08: 14
        +4
        raise the payment to the workers - there will be a bunch of workers for you!
        1. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 1 December 2013 13: 40
          +3
          Quote: Civil
          there will be a bunch of workers for you!

          Lost the word Qualified ...
        2. PPL
          PPL 1 December 2013 14: 10
          +1
          Unfortunately money alone cannot solve the issue, without the necessary basic education and vocational training, no matter how much you pay, everything will not be for the future. Yes, and they get qualified workers, as many have noted here, unlike many managers and other "generalists". Will the last vocational schools retire (or where to go) and who will take their place? Really only on migrant workers to hope, but after all, there is the same with education and personnel. The great Chinese people remain, but will they want to feed the freeloaders? ...
        3. Evgenij.
          Evgenij. 1 December 2013 19: 46
          0
          And to engineers, for 8700 in the first year of work is not even funny!
    2. mirag2
      mirag2 30 November 2013 09: 51
      14
      It is necessary to re-create a layer of technical schools, something between the institute and vocational schools, in order to grow technically competent workers.
      Which will be able to perform technically challenging tasks.
      Well, pay for this work with dignity.
      This work is very interesting, in my opinion, I think many of today's boys would be interested.
      1. pahom54
        pahom54 30 November 2013 10: 45
        +3
        for migar2
        That's about the fact that it would be interesting for today's boys to study at technical schools in industrial specialties - in this I do not agree with you. They now have completely different life values ​​and attitudes, and few of them will be proud that they work on a cool CNC machine. Although at one of our plants people with higher education work on such machines, they even receive a decent salary by our standards (not Moscow). However, if we talk about their age, in 10-12 years there will be no one to work on complex machines ... It's insulting, annoying, but such is the prose of being ...
        1. APES
          APES 30 November 2013 18: 05
          +2
          Quote: pahom54
          what works on a cool CNC machine


          for reference:
          cnc operator (good) - 60-90 TR
          cnc programmer (excellent) - 80-120 tr
          cnc installer (magnificent) - up to 150 tr

          and this is in St. Petersburg, at my factory - and there is a shortage of such specialists
          1. pahom54
            pahom54 1 December 2013 19: 00
            +1
            for APES
            Do you want 40-50? And this is a highly qualified operator. For reference, a plant for heavy industrial valves in the city of Aleksin, Tula Region. Literally not so long ago there were such salaries as 140-150 thousand rubles, and then the owner began to cut people, lower salaries. If you want to, work, if you don’t want to, go to Moscow.
            However, it is not about that, but about the fact that a huge training and production complex was cheated, and guys from all over (!!!) the country studied in it. The reason is that there aren’t anyone who wants to ... I didn’t invent anything, I am writing about what really is. Well, I don’t think the current profession is prestigious !!! Why is another question ...
        2. yurii p
          yurii p 30 November 2013 23: 11
          0
          and this attitude is not only in your region, in the country is the cult of bureaucracy and this is the propaganda of the state, albeit involuntary, who will prove that an engineer gets more than an official, and most importantly an official "has" much more than an engineer, we have a bureaucratic nomenclature in the country , which saws the BUDGET, AND THE REST OF THIS PROPOSE.
      2. APES
        APES 30 November 2013 18: 12
        +2
        Quote: mirag2
        Need to recreate

        the main defense problem is the generation gap
        and for the most part this applies to developers - designers
        95% of all "developments" - "developments" - this is the backlog of the USSR, there is very little new,
        something breakthrough-revolutionary - we can say no

        to all this - tremendous damage caused by fundamental - applied science over the past 25 years.

        as for:

        Quote: mirag2
        to grow technically competent workers.


        at any working plant - this can be done in one to two years without any problems.

        now you say to a young "specialist" in 99% of cases: "forget what you were taught"
        1. SV
          SV 30 November 2013 19: 18
          +1
          My relative, after graduating from the university (a year and a half ago), works in one defense bureau of Krasnoyarsk. The situation there is bordering on insanity. The old team simply ignores the young professionals, they quit. And it’s not a matter of salary (in principle, acceptable for young people), but of respect. So, only a year later he was given a computer and a permanent workplace lol while serious work is not allowed. Moreover, they do not even provide an opportunity to understand the essence, motivating this by the fact that they are not paid for it fool . According to him: when the old people die (and they are already well over 60-70), the KB can be closed. He himself wants to work on a profile and does not exclude the possibility of working abroad (he had not even considered this before) ... recourse
      3. PPL
        PPL 1 December 2013 14: 32
        0
        While the private trader will be interested only in short-term profit, one can only dream of investing money in vocational training, both existing workers and potential ones.
    3. Joker
      Joker 30 November 2013 11: 17
      +1
      Salaries should be given normally, then there will be no staff turnover and there will be someone to do everything, otherwise they pay funny salaries and then complain that they lack staff. There are frames and there have always been, only promises cannot be kept by them, the private trader offers 1.5 times as much as z.p. Here are all the young people after working a year or half a year and leaving.
      1. pahom54
        pahom54 30 November 2013 14: 52
        +5
        for joker
        I will give you an example of how our fat businessmen deal with skilled workers. Our city-forming (in fact) enterprise - OJSC - was able to sign a contract with some Western company (I really can’t name it) with a production volume of about 5 years. Before that, 482 (!!!) people were laid off from the factory , including highly professional merry-go-round turners who immediately got a job in Moscow (they were hired right away, BUT !!! They paid less than Muscovites. Well, remoteness from the family ...). The personnel officers of our plant began to make contacts with the dismissed, two men quit the Moscow factory and came to get a job at their own factory. So what? But nothing ... The Director General left for the Canary Islands and forbade a single person to be accepted without him ... As a result, the guys (and the guys 48-52 children) have nothing to feed the family, and the contract because of the rest of the Director General as I understand it, barked ...
        Previously, the plant worked with might and main both for our economy and for export. Now he is breathing heavily, although his products are in demand. Before that, there were massive purchases of shares from the workers of the plant, and as I understand it, the CEO became not a hired manager, but in fact the owner. He drips and has enough for bread with caviar, but he does not need a powerful plant - "more effective managers" will be taken away ... That's the point ...
        I will add: before the mass purchase of shares, the plant had a strong educational production, in many specialties, future workers went to study from all over the country to us. Yes, and many workers studied at universities from universities ... And now this educational production also barked, from the factory to Universities do not direct anyone, etc., etc. Youth walks-wanders-shalmanit-hunk eats ... Not all, of course, but ...
        such prose, such possibilities. And this fat gentleman thinks neither of the development of production, nor of the social needs of the population. And not in answer to anyone ...
      2. afire
        afire 30 November 2013 14: 59
        12
        There is an enterprise in Moscow, I work there for only a week, but I have not seen such idiocy anywhere. A lot of high-tech equipment was bought, new competent people were hired, but those who develop the devices are the same. So, if I, as a process engineer, see errors in the board, its wiring, how it is assembled, how it is assembled, how the housing is designed and a lot of other things, I begin to turn to the manual, announcing all of the above, paperwork begins, reluctance to correct, cover their asses. The chief designer of the kosyachnik is rare and lazy. All this huge colossus does not work for quality because of one freak.
        First you need to change the top, and only then start earning, releasing a lot of high-quality equipment.
        1. andr327
          andr327 30 November 2013 23: 06
          0
          ready to put a hundred pluses, but you can’t
      3. andr327
        andr327 30 November 2013 23: 04
        +1
        in Novosibirsk, I’m watching the introduction of new technology. Alas, the preparation of the industry is very weak, the bulk know the tiny volume at the block level, the operating organization cannot get an answer for the complex, the industry is simply afraid of the military because of its illiteracy. The documentation is so raw that it is just right to give it to a potential adversary, then he will definitely go crazy or have to recruit such a staff for its decoding that the budget of any country is not enough.
        That is, the industry has a terrible gap between chief designers and field workers. during the transfer, the main task is to shove the equipment off, and not solve the problems that have arisen during operation. Kills the disunity of suppliers, every man for himself, and the military "e ... b as you can." With great ideas, performance is worse than Chinese consumer goods.
        may be rude, but pent. !!!
    4. Botanologist
      Botanologist 30 November 2013 14: 34
      +5
      And who will explain to me the numeral 53% of modern WWE in the Navy? Everything on the go, recorded in modern?
    5. starshina78
      starshina78 1 December 2013 17: 55
      0
      I agree with the author of the comment! I have already written about the same thing that it is necessary to revive vocational schools, technical schools (not colleges, namely technical schools, otherwise there are colleges in which it is not clear why and for whom they teach). We need to create such a program so that young people go to work in factories and factories, as it was before. Conclude contracts for free housing, but the worker must work 15 to 20 years. I think they will go - it's better than paying a mortgage for the same number of years. Come up with some other social benefits. It's funny when you go into the shop and see a turner who is 75 years old. What effect does it have if it takes half a shift to the machine, and you will see that it falls on the way. It is necessary to reduce the number of institutes and universities that train managers. It is not clear what, and it is not clear why, but the main thing is a manager's diploma, and then work in some "buy - sell" office on the invoice. Until this happens, nothing will come of it.
    6. VseDoFeNi
      VseDoFeNi 1 December 2013 19: 13
      0
      People do not want to work, they want to sit and mess around in offices with office plankton. I think in vocational schools there will be no hype.
  2. Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 30 November 2013 09: 31
    +6
    In general, there are still enough problems in the sphere of state defense orders.-and their (problems) will be added after the appointment of Serdyukov as general director of the Federal Research Testing Center for Mechanical Engineering ("FIITs M") ..., and State Duma deputies they will nod their heads and smile or what else to do on the spot.
    1. Metlik
      Metlik 30 November 2013 11: 19
      +3
      What does the deputies and the Duma have to do with it?
  3. 528Obrp
    528Obrp 30 November 2013 09: 32
    +3
    Defense Ministry Research Organizations Reassigned to Troops
    I think that's right

    work is underway to form systems promising military research, including the development of new technological reserves and the development of the latest weapons systems and robotic systems.

    A systematic approach is something that is always lacking.
  4. major071
    major071 30 November 2013 09: 45
    13
    due to insufficient production capacities and qualified personnel.

    For that fought for it and ran. Having collapsed production and shutting down enterprises (leasing production shops to Komers), EFFECTIVE managers pocked their pockets with money and dumped them. Those enterprises that survived in 90 continue their work, but with much less efficiency. The rest has to be re-created, and new enterprises and a training system for enterprises. Hence the disruption of orders and low-quality products.
  5. Fin
    Fin 30 November 2013 09: 47
    +3
    Finally, they seriously took up the military-industrial complex and the armed forces. Apparently it dawned that the market would not ruin everything, but would ruin it. Is there a round-table video?
    At the end of 2013 of the year, the level of equipment of the Armed Forces with modern AMIS is:
    in the Air Force - 42%;
    in the Navy - 53%;

    As if the interest is very high. I don’t know about the Air Force, but the Navy doesn’t exactly match it. Is every 2nd ship new?
    1. HollyGremlin
      HollyGremlin 30 November 2013 10: 26
      10
      It's simple:
      1. The percentage of what? from what is in service, operated, combat ready?
      2. Who is considered modern? Is Kuzya modern or not?
      3. How to compare: There is a new minesweeper and an old aircraft carrier - a total of 50% of modern technology.
      4. And what kind of dynamics? If, for example, yesterday there were 100 ships of which 10 were new - 10%; and today we wrote off and sold 50 ships, the percentage of new equipment increased - 20%.
      These are the tricky percentages.
      1. alone
        alone 30 November 2013 22: 20
        0
        in the Ground Forces - 17%;


        Apparently, when reforming the army, the Ground Forces are given secondary roles, since only 17% of the latest technology
  6. 528Obrp
    528Obrp 30 November 2013 09: 49
    +4
    Quote: major071
    managers pocked their pockets with money and dumped.


    This is not the worst. Little specials, it's scary
    1. Ascetic
      Ascetic 30 November 2013 11: 27
      13
      Quote: 528Obrp
      This is not the worst. Little specials, it's scary


      Where do they come from, even if there is a desire, because even in the Moscow region the salaries of the lower and middle management of engineering and technical personnel are somewhere at the level of a storekeeper or a junior assistant to a senior manager. In the 90s, there was a huge outflow of specialists when people were simply not paid salaries and enterprises did not have orders but means financing and working capital. And people were leaving just the most working age and having experience at the age of 30-40 years, that is, that middle link of specialists on which the enterprise essentially rests. As in the army, the whole combat readiness is essentially kept in the company-battalion link. And therefore there is no one to pass on and teach experience, if young people come, they cook in their own juice. And the universities designed to train specialists for the rocket-space and aviation industry. N.E. Bauman, MAI, Kazan and Samara universities train specialists only as a result they leave for other areas of activity. As a result, there is now a demographic failure in the defense industry. The average age of employees in all strategic industries is 55–57 years. Of these, the proportion of specialists over the age of 60 exceeds 30 percent. Big failure between the ages of 35 and 45. For example, a young specialist should work in my position as a mid-level engineering technician, and we have all retirees aged 45 to 60 years. And then "thanks" to Serdyukov for reductions in the army, or even they would not have been.
      There are only three things you need to attract people to the defense industry. technical re-equipment, decent salary and the formation of research and development.All and nothing more! Without all this, to ensure the attractiveness of work at the military-industrial enterprise, to retain personnel, to attract new ones, is practically impossible.
      Now Shoigu has brought Borisov into service. The man seems to be intelligent. The first thing he did was to stop the "price wars" between the Defense Ministry and industrial enterprises. The second contracts began to be concluded not for a year, but long-term with phased rather than advance financing in which unscrupulous managers twisted budget money on deposits, that is, enterprises appear current assets in the long run. Third is full cycle which is mentioned in the article, but for some reason they "forgot" the main thing. That the Ministry of Defense, with the hands of Borisov, transferred all the repair and service plants from the holding monopoly "Oboronservis" transferred to the industry at the same time also assigned all responsibility for the serviceability of the equipment by concluding "life cycle maintenance contracts" That is, these measures are aimed at solving two out of three tasks, there is money for the formation of R&D, at the expense of working capital there is the possibility of technical re-equipment and modernization. For the training of military personnel, under Serdyukov, research institutes responsible for the development of military-technical policy were transferred to military scientific centers and subordinated to the Department of Military Education of the Ministry of Defense, which was headed by the well-known Ekaterina Priezzhaeva. Now they have returned to the jurisdiction of the main commands and commands of the branches and services of the Armed Forces.
      2014 should be decisive when the system of long-term contracts for the full life cycle, a new algorithm for financing work are tested. The implementation of the whole GOZ-2020 depends on how far all these projects turn out.
      1. typhoon7
        typhoon7 30 November 2013 16: 40
        +1
        Welcome all. Reading the article, I remembered one conversation. In the mid-80s, he completed practical training in production. Somehow, during the lunch break, the whole team we basked in the sun and started a conversation about life. Of course, I don’t remember the conversation, but I remembered the words of one hard worker. Part of the phrase: ,, Now you take a stone, and where you don’t throw you will get into an engineer ,,. In times were. Pheasant women regularly produced good hard workers, and which specialists left the walls of universities. I wonder if now you take a pebble, not necessarily the size of a fist and throw, who will you fall into?
        1. SV
          SV 30 November 2013 19: 33
          +3
          throw at least a hundred times - you will get to the manager ....
          1. shpuntik
            shpuntik 1 December 2013 03: 50
            0
            Here, behind the banner, on the second tier of the woods, at 07:45, old-sick installers usually leave the site to look at the craftsmen. And so maliciously they say: "Well," dandruff "poured out, look how many there are". The bosses (builders, deputy chief of the workshop, etc.) gather on this patch, which is in the photo: discuss the details of the day's work.
  7. saved
    saved 30 November 2013 09: 53
    +1
    Revolutionaries do not always lead to good. It will take a long time for everything to work out.
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 30 November 2013 10: 52
    +4
    Quote: 528Obrp
    Quote: major071
    managers pocked their pockets with money and dumped.


    This is not the worst. Little specials, it's scary

    The worst thing is that old specialists of the highest class are leaving (turner, locksmith, etc. masters of "golden hands"), they simply beg to give their experience to no one (for free ..) instructions to write this is not that .. This is learning to profit .. There is such a concept transfer your knowledge and the soul of creativity to the student .. Machines-robots cannot do this.
  10. lotar
    lotar 30 November 2013 10: 52
    +3
    Many in the military-industrial complex consider themselves lamb and their ilk. But in most cases, this is a common question especially in the past decades, the question of the distribution of money. When either nothing is allocated at all or absolutely nothing. But then it goes to its last penny. Also I have not once observed the picture when the bosses steal whole squads and no one can find anything.
  11. Kulneff2009
    Kulneff2009 30 November 2013 11: 15
    +1
    The training of technical personnel must be carried out unequivocally. This means that special educational institutions are needed. Yes, and a decent salary for technicians. Then you get something.
  12. MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 30 November 2013 11: 49
    +1
    The real leader must go through all the steps .. to feel the factory factory or research institute, etc. .. In the USSR, such a selection (the nomenclature was called) was in the order of things .. Distribution in institutes (the state taught you to be kind enough to work out where to send ..) Result everyone knows .. We are now still using the specialists of that generation and very successfully .. So who will come after them ??
    1. mountain
      mountain 1 December 2013 14: 14
      +1
      And, doesn’t it seem to you that before you teach a future specialist, a profession, you need enterprises where fresh staff could come. At one time, both vocational schools and technical schools subsidized enterprises in need for these cadres. And today, how and who will undertake the preparation, oh well, if you wish, you can hang on the state. And factories, who will build them? There should be a support program, manufacturers, soft loans, and maybe without interest, a tax, or even just missing, for 10,20 years. Well, accordingly, salary, which would stimulate the interest of young people in the profession and long-term growth.
      In a word, do not build to break.
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. poquello
      poquello 30 November 2013 14: 39
      +2
      Public procurement is a balanced thing, you can not turn to face either the customer or the supplier. Laws and amendments will not be formed harmoniously soon and IMHO by typing. I think it is necessary to single out the defense industry from the general legislative base, the matter is of state importance.
  15. Stinger
    Stinger 30 November 2013 12: 51
    +4
    Advances, of course, are, but far from the revolution.
    A revolution is when the action of 94-FZ with respect to weapons and military equipment is canceled. Causes:
    1. He leads the winners of competitions in terms of serial deliveries of pocket intermediaries who do not have anything for their souls, but are ready to offer kickbacks and know that they will still cheaply hire real manufacturers for whom losing is tantamount to bankruptcy. In terms of R&D, it’s even more convenient. There is actually a contest of intentions, because the winner is determined by a comparative assessment of engineering notes of the contestants. Not even outline designs. There are even more options. Either he took an advance and disappeared, or hired, by labor agreement, designers from real design bureaus, wrote a preliminary design, and protected him from the screw. Budget money can no longer be returned. Attempts to amend the law that ZAO, LLC, etc. Offices can conclude a contract with the state customer for an amount not exceeding their authorized capital + the cost of fixed assets, to no avail.
    2. The directors of defense enterprises are not interested in updating production due to the uncertain prospects for the foreseeable future.
    The fact that they finally made a decision on a three-year budget and, accordingly, on contracts for the same period is a plus. If the contracts are really concluded with the head contractor for the entire product life cycle, this will certainly remove this problem and strengthen the cooperation of the contractors. And with confidence there will be an incentive to train personnel.
    3. Even if the manufacturing company won the tender in a fair fight, let’s say for the supply of tanks, what do you want to do with the rest of the tank manufacturers? Close? You won’t open anymore. Hold as mobility? Useless. Workers will run away, and you will not save up the budget.
    4. In the context of a lack of appropriations, cooperation needs to be narrowed, not expanded (to produce intermediaries) in order to ensure the loading of real producers and to maintain the possibility of modernizing production.
    And about prices, I would like to ask Yu.I. Borisov, when will the discrimination of the defense industry cease? If the level of profitability of such intermediary structures as Rosvooruzhenie is set at 25% and manufacturers do not exceed 10%? What salaries are there.
    1. SV
      SV 30 November 2013 19: 40
      0
      The aforementioned in paragraph 1 also applies to the entire production sector of the country ...
      1. poquello
        poquello 30 November 2013 20: 18
        +1
        Quote: SV
        The aforementioned in paragraph 1 also applies to the entire production sector of the country ...


        I would not say that, but sometimes customers are surprised that we ourselves are manufacturers of the supplied systems.
  16. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 30 November 2013 13: 19
    +1
    Falling quality, overpricing and other problems will only get worse. Let me remind myself modestly. In the West, military products are considered ... the worst. Incredibly expensive, and at a cosmic price, it is always extremely low quality. People who buy military surplus are considered (and not without reason) to be marginalized. It is absolutely amazing to read fantastic opinions about the fact that "the military-industrial complex will become the engine of the economy." A funnel in which public funds disappear - yes, of course. But the motor ... is, excuse me, from a different social formation and, most importantly, from a different self-awareness of society.
    Very briefly about the reasons. Capitalism is profit. The best, ideal scenario under capitalism is to do nothing, and resources are flowing to you. Well, this is how the United States arranged with the Fed. But it’s difficult to do so, you still need to do something, change resources for something (the Fed exchanged a full present for the future of the USA, which they now have not). Means what? So the best scenarios will be as close as possible to the ideal. Whoever managed to get closer to doing nothing and getting the maximum price for it - he always wins. As a thief official, always, under all conditions, defeats a hard worker.
    The enterprises of the military-industrial complex are, of course, forced to receive long-term contracts. What is easier and closer to the ideal capitalist scenario - to work hard, pouring in an abyss of resources? Or buy reviewers? Dexterously "creating an opinion", repeatedly demanding additional funds, and then sadly declaring - it did not work out. But this is at a closed meeting in the government. And there sit those bought by you, so as not to do anything but to raise money. And all the unbought ones cannot rock the boat either! Because how can you explain why billions were spent? And now it turns out that "a magnificent 5th generation aircraft F22 has been built!" It just needs to be a little more refined ... for the same cosmic amount that has already been spent. And so on ...
    No, strengthening the punitive system will not help. In the given conditions of the problem, money will move until it is natural to find someone who blocks punitive functions. So the "supervision of the authorities" will simply result in additional funds that will be snatched from the country and stolen.
    1. atalef
      atalef 30 November 2013 13: 35
      +1
      Quote: Mikhail3
      In the West, military products are considered ... the worst. Incredibly expensive, and at a space price it is always of extremely low quality.

      let me disagree with you, and deeply. I can not judge the analogues (civilian version) of a cruise missile, SSBN or tank, but the military equipment of a soldier (shoes and clothes), knives, emergency kits, lights, prod. rations, etc. --- civilians are very far from this. and if there are analogues - then at no less price.
      This applies to all-terrain vehicles, jeeps, trucks, walkie-talkies

      Quote: Mikhail3
      ... It is absolutely amazing to read fantastic opinions about the fact that "the military-industrial complex will become the engine of the economy"

      absolutely right - the military-industrial complex cannot be the engine of the economy - because everything there is too costly and certainly profitable. (I don’t take conversion or military technologies introduced into civilian industry) because to invent teflon - it’s not at all necessary to make ICBMs (I mean its nozzles)


      Quote: Mikhail3
      The defense industry enterprises are, of course, compelled to receive long-term fat contracts. What is easier and closer to the ideal capitalist scenario - to work hard, dumping the abyss of resources?

      And the military-industrial complex of Russia has long been no different from the military-industrial complex of the same states - neither in terms of price, nor in squandering funds - more precisely, they differ - in the United States it is still working more efficiently and this is what we see in their weapons line

      Quote: Mikhail3
      And now it turns out that "a magnificent 5th generation aircraft F22 has been built!" It just needs to be improved a little more ... for the same cosmic amount that has already been spent. And so on ...

      Yes . There is nothing new under the moon, both here and there, the state is captured by the military-industrial complex (especially giant corporations), such as ..... a bit more. another dozen other billions and the Mace flies, Armata - will go, Glonass (it will show them), etc. It is high time to understand the military-industrial complex in any country - this is a monster who will gobble up as much money as you give and still require an addition.
      1. Mikhail3
        Mikhail3 30 November 2013 15: 05
        +1
        Quote: atalef
        let me disagree with you, and deeply. I can not judge the analogues (civilian version) of a cruise missile, SSBN or tank, but the military equipment of a soldier (shoes and clothes), knives, emergency kits, lights, prod. rations, etc. --- civilians are very far from this. and if there are analogues - then at no less price.
        This applies to all-terrain vehicles, jeeps, trucks, walkie-talkies

        Let me remind you. The West is well aware of all the problems I have listed. And has some package of methods aimed at mitigating the consequences. For example, what you listed is not issued by military corporations. All this is done by firms that have some military orders. Do you understand the difference?
        Firms produce high quality civilian products. They would love to produce a low-quality one, but they have to "make a contract" with you every time you buy a flashlight. Having millions of individual "counterparties", each of whom buys one single product and will not buy another if they let him down, these firms are forced to lower the quality smoothly and together with everyone else, which is happening now all over the world, and not immediately release rubbish as purely military companies. It is difficult to organize a kickback payment for you so that you buy garbage, because it will be you who will use it, and not the soldiers, to whom buyers of military products usually do not care. It is with them that separate military contracts are concluded, this helps to keep the quality more or less at the level.
        But conceptually this does not solve the issue. The funny thing is that the West is violently attacking "traditional values" and many have already won. This is understandable, these values ​​seem to be contrary to capitalism. You need to be extremely cynical, then success awaits you! Here is a short expression of all capitalism. What is this success? As someone aptly put it - to eat to sweat, to shit to tears! Hooray! But. When solving a question that every minute arises in any person - is it good for me to do my job right now or worse? What does cynicism advise? Strain as little as possible. That is, worse.
        This problem was temporarily solved for the West by the USSR - an ideological adversary. That is, people worked really well not from under the stick. They believed that they were protecting their way of life, and that was true. Really defended. We will not argue now whether a different lifestyle would be better or worse. There was simply an incentive, and this is real and not false, for the manifestation of the highest spiritual qualities. And at the moment? WHAT FOR?
        Why work properly? No, there is WHY. Because the employer is constantly improving the punishment system. Not guys ... Punishment will not do the job really good, even if you tear in half .... The military-industrial complex simply revealed this problem, it is expressed more clearly in it. The West has a recipe for resolving it. They make people dumber and dumber. They are deprived of all social orientations, taken away self-consciousness as something independent. Such people will not create masterpieces but will persistently do what they were told, simply because they will not find the toilet without external control. Well, the higher managerial caste, new aristocrats, so to speak, will be motivated even more simply - look, let’s lower it into the holes. Do we want this?
        I am not asking you, Israel has no place in the "Bright New Capitalist World". You will be destroyed much more surely than even us, although this is hard to believe. Unfortunately, there is no place for Israel in any other version of the future. Somehow it happened that your wars consist only of meanness, sheer. So among people, and not biomass in the Western manner, there is no future for you either ...
        1. atalef
          atalef 30 November 2013 15: 20
          +1
          Quote: Mikhail3
          Let me remind you. The West is well aware of all the problems I have listed. And has some package of methods aimed at mitigating the consequences. For example, what you listed is not issued by military corporations. All this is done by firms that have some military orders. Do you understand the difference?

          Of course. there is generally no state corporation and their governments have much more leverage. I was just talking about quality - it’s never worse than civilian counterparts
          Quote: Mikhail3
          Firms produce high quality civilian products. They would love to produce a low-quality one, but they have to "make a contract" with you every time you buy a flashlight. Having millions of individual "counterparties", each of whom buys one single product and will not buy another if it is let down, these firms are forced to lower quality smoothly and together with everyone else, which is happening now all over the world

          I agree 100%

          Quote: Mikhail3
          You need to be extremely cynical, then you will succeed!

          I do not agree with this. An example of Switzerland. Norway. Sweden and so on (developed kapstran says the opposite), but there is a framework and borders for everything - there is wolf capitalism and there is 9 with a human face, how strange it looks 0
          I won’t go far - my company gives such privileges and rights to workers that no one dreamed of an enterprise of the USSR era

          Quote: Mikhail3
          This problem was temporarily solved for the West by the USSR - an ideological adversary. That is, people worked really well not from under the stick. They believed that they were protecting their way of life, and that was true.

          They worked. about everything and well --- worked, I know, I do not agree. And the grandmothers in the USSR also had far from the last meaning

          Quote: Mikhail3
          They make people dumber and dumber. Deprive them of all social landmarks,

          Yes ? It’s strange. I repeat again, if I list the set of benefits at my enterprise - just do not believe it or .... But after all, nascapitalism and believe me is far from the most developed


          Quote: Mikhail3
          You will be destroyed much more truly than even us, although this is hard to believe. Unfortunately, in another version of the future, Israel also has no place

          laugh, oh well

          Quote: Mikhail3
          So among people, and not biomass in a Western manner, there is no future for you either ...

          Well, about biomass the same would argue, what is the difference between our biomass? Therein . What do people treat me like at work? Therein . what do i have rights Therein . that any court will protect them?
          It’s silly to talk about what you don’t know hi
          1. Mikhail3
            Mikhail3 30 November 2013 16: 00
            +2
            Quote: atalef
            Yes ? It’s strange. I repeat again, if I list the set of benefits at my enterprise - just do not believe it or .... But after all, nascapitalism and believe me is far from the most developed

            I believe. You will be destroyed.
            Quote: atalef
            I do not agree with this. An example of Switzerland. Norway. Sweden and so on (developed kapstran says the opposite), but there is a framework and borders for everything - there is wolf capitalism and there is 9 with a human face, how strange it looks 0

            Very simple Darwinism. Remember the superpower - UK? What is the speaker sitting on? On a bag of wool. Woolen fabric - that's what killed all the opponents of this country, that's what created a colossal Empire. But as? After all, was a rag worse? The Netherlands fought with England. And who won? And why? And because in the Netherlands they paid for the work.
            And the British drove millions of people from the earth and began to hang them "for vagrancy." And these people tossed up the industrial empire, receiving three times less than the cost of living. It is very convenient - for about 7 years he works over his strength and then dies. Minimum costs, maximum profit, therefore an unconditional victory.
            It just takes people to become stupid and completely powerless. And the New Capitalist Empire again ... Do you see any place for your country here? Or for those who will cling to "frames and boundaries"?
            1. atalef
              atalef 30 November 2013 16: 12
              +1
              Quote: Mikhail3
              I believe. You will be destroyed.

              The only question is how do you feel about it, with joy or regret

              Quote: Mikhail3
              ? And because in the Netherlands they paid for the work.

              It is not so simple with the Netherlands, but it only confirms my words - there is capitalism with a human face - it is not a numbed substance 0 it develops and adapts. Here socialism, led by the dogmatist Suslov, could not adapt, did not want to change - the result is exactly the opposite - to the smart and not the logic of Deng Xiao Ping. Two socialism - but what a striking result. Therefore, capitalism does not stand still. he is changing

              Quote: Mikhail3
              And the British drove millions of people from the earth and began to hang them "for vagrancy." And these people tossed an industrial empire skyward

              Fading with the hatred of England. proclaimed independence and ... turned into both the USA. so to Australia and Canada - and who now has vassals?

              Quote: Mikhail3
              It just needs to make people stupid and completely powerless. And the New Capitalist Empire with

              You know, I’ve been looking at the last 40 years, capitalism is turning more and more face to person (in normal countries) - and what you write is probably the Russian Federation - well, in Russia capitalism is not developed, but it’s not clear what .
              1. Mikhail3
                Mikhail3 30 November 2013 22: 32
                +2
                Quote: atalef
                Fading with the hatred of England. proclaimed independence and ... turned like in the USA

                Funny ... No, they didn't "dump". Do you understand what it is like to find a place on a ship? Well, that is, not on the quarterdecks but as a passenger? With children and households? The people who were driven off the land were not merchants. And not the intelligentsia, it did not exist then. They were peasants. They had no money and a piece of bread, let alone a transoceanic cruise! They accepted the hanging even with gratitude - suicide is forbidden by religion, it is a huge sin, there is nothing to eat at all (I advise, for example, to find out why 95-degree whiskey was called "Black Jack", brand, so to speak), to see relatives and friends die in a ditch is unbearable .. ...
                No, those who died in a ditch and those who died in factories did not "become Australia". Much later, thieves, bandits, professional beggars, etc. began to be taken there. And people themselves went to the future USA. Not poor people, very much even. Even then they were preparing "freedom and independence." In the sense of an enchanting kidka for an unsuspecting Britain, carelessly pouring uncounted millions into the colonies, today it is hundreds of billions ...
                Quote: atalef
                You know, I’ve been looking at the last 40 years, capitalism is turning more and more face to man (in normal countries)
                There was a case. While the USSR was. Now why? Why does capitalism need a "human face"? To keep you optimistic? So him your optimism along the leg. You have to work many times more for capitalism! And consume less! Otherwise, your capitalist will be devoured by another who has achieved! You will be destroyed ...
  17. Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 30 November 2013 14: 09
    +2
    "The patient is more alive than dead."
    "Touches" the statistics of throwing dust in the eyes:
    By mid-November, the volume of state contracts for public defense contracts-2013 amounted to more than 95% of their planned volume. It is forecasted that at the end of December 97,5% of the planned volume of all funds will be contracted.

    We are talking about the money spent and does not mean produced in the same proportions of products.
    It’s good that it doesn’t start to drift. The President has to act according to the principle: "if you want it done well, do it yourself." This suggests that there is no one to rely on. DOCOLE?
  18. Harmony
    Harmony 30 November 2013 16: 00
    +2
    Putin needs to steal less to steal, then there will be sense
    1. Grbear
      Grbear 30 November 2013 17: 28
      +1
      Putin needs to steal less to steal, then there will be sense

      And you would like to read more and learn to listen.
  19. ole_ga
    ole_ga 30 November 2013 17: 32
    +1
    Unscrupulous performers at the auction achieve the lowest price, after which they receive 80% of the advance payment and disappear. And the enterprises themselves that failed to cope with the order can easily get a new one.
    Is it impossible to catch them? Why then all these "power departments"?
  20. ole_ga
    ole_ga 30 November 2013 17: 49
    +1
    Unscrupulous performers at the auction achieve the lowest price, after which they receive 80% of the advance payment and disappear. And the enterprises themselves that failed to cope with the order can easily get a new one.
    Is it impossible to catch them? Why then all these "power departments"?
  21. Grbear
    Grbear 30 November 2013 17: 57
    +3
    If the institution of military representatives is restored, many problems in pricing will be removed. There used to be economist military representatives. They collected costing for each product and at all stages. Compared with analogs, etc. The process is very "painful" for normalizers, but objective. Further - either changes in technical processes, or the norm was approved. For development - the norm is valid for six months, then - for approval. And stars flew for the "linden". It is impossible to "buy" such a horde of military personnel.

    With workers, this is really a problem. The average age of machine operators is 54-56 years old, and vocational schools - pure zero (according to experience) and serve to maintain statistics of the "average" age of workers, because Young workers "live" for a year or two, then anywhere. There was an article about the "Lomonosovs in Russia", so not only the Lomonosovs will not be, Lefties will remain only in garages.
    Somehow shitty, and you can not see the gap. sad
  22. 11111mail.ru
    11111mail.ru 30 November 2013 20: 14
    0
    Quote: GrBear
    If the institution of military representatives is restored, many problems in pricing will be removed.

    Already out of date. Read the first page of the "Krasnaya Zvezda" dated November 21, 2013. The "GOSOBORONZAKAZ-POSITIVE TREND" pack From January 1, 2014, the military missions will not agree on the price.
    "According to Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov, in 2013 the military department prepared a draft law on state defense order, which will enter into force on January 1, 2014. This document makes significant adjustments to the existing pricing model for military products. The main role, according to Borisov, is in the new model of pricing will be given not to the Ministry of Defense, but to the Ministry of Industry. The new law establishes new principles for the formation of the State Armaments Program. " Ce la vie. The Serdyukov case lives on and wins.
    1. Grbear
      Grbear 1 December 2013 11: 14
      +1
      11111mail.ru
      I don't quite agree with you here. According to the project - the Ministry of Industry will justify the price on the basis of analogs, calculations, etc., and not "roll out" - like "take it, don't want it - but where will you go." Competition among manufacturers may arise, although a corruption component appears.
      Road going by walking.
  23. m.asfa
    m.asfa 30 November 2013 20: 54
    +2
    Everything is rotten in the GOZ system: from the system of tenders for R&D to the pricing of serial production. OCD is received by firms that have never dealt with this topic (they probably give the necessary rollback); Naturally the development level is below the skirting board. Pricing also raises a bunch of questions: the increase in value next year compared to the current year is determined by the coefficients, which are determined by the Ministry of Economic Development and which are much lower than the real level of inflation. Therefore, after some time, the output becomes unprofitable and the company is doing everything in its power to refuse to release it. And the average salary in an enterprise producing sophisticated equipment cannot be higher than the average in the region. Specialists leave for other enterprises - here rockets fall.
  24. voliador
    voliador 30 November 2013 21: 17
    +1
    We produce machines and equipment, but very rarely they can be called 100% ours. Electronics and software for it - bourgeois, universal turrets for multi-tool - the same. So they are ours with a stretch. And yet, if you do not buy from our manufacturers, then they simply will not remain, and then - complete dependence on foreign countries, which is not good.
  25. voliador
    voliador 30 November 2013 21: 17
    +1
    We produce machines and equipment, but very rarely they can be called 100% ours. Electronics and software for it - bourgeois, universal turrets for multi-tool - the same. So they are ours with a stretch. And yet, if you do not buy from our manufacturers, then they simply will not remain, and then - complete dependence on foreign countries, which is not good.
  26. andr327
    andr327 30 November 2013 23: 16
    +2
    The revolution in the state defense order is accurate, but just what? They demand everything from the killed military industrial complex, but you can’t create any material and base and personnel for no money. As a result, we have what we have. and one and the other fucking.
  27. andrei332809
    andrei332809 1 December 2013 08: 25
    0
    where are the "results" ?! "Results" then where?
  28. stranik72
    stranik72 1 December 2013 13: 12
    +1
    Revolution, again just words. One example is the existence of management companies in the military-industrial complex with very dubious functions, for example, UAC and BP, if they only monitored the correct spending of the FS (allocated by the state) and the quality of the technology being created is understandable, but they pull on the developer's functions while practically destroying OKB (MI, IL, Tu MiG and further down the list). People are often put in trepmanagers for nepotism, not rarely from the UAC or Rostec, where they have not shown themselves in any way goes to BP, or vice versa, the program director in BP is paid from 300 ... to 500 thousand rubles, the "simple" leading engineer at BP is 70 thousand rubles , and in the OKB 40 thousand rubles while the OKB creates a product and BP "organizes" its sale well with very high prices, the product is not competitive in the world market according to the criterion of efficiency-price. The decision on modernization and money for manufacturing enterprises is given by the management companies. Managers (managers) at factories are appointed by the management company, therefore 25-year-old deputy directors of factories are no longer a rarity. And this is only a small part of the authorities' fallacy in creating a military-industrial complex management system. And everyone knows about corruption in this area for a long time. So I do not believe in improvement, not even a hint, one, "blah blah."
  29. bubla5
    bubla5 1 December 2013 15: 20
    +1
    “The state is forced to buy military equipment very expensive. Unscrupulous performers at the auction achieve the lowest price, after which they receive 80% of the advance payment and disappear. And the enterprises themselves that failed to cope with the order can easily get a new one. ” ] Wow, but where is the state, country, and finally power structures
  30. The comment was deleted.
  31. AlexA
    AlexA 1 December 2013 20: 16
    +2
    Quote: andrei332809
    where are the "results" ?! "Results" then where?

    After reading all of the proposals, which are practically very similar and, in general, efficient, the simple conclusion suggests itself: within the framework of the existing economic and political model, no decent (and indeed no) system of formation and execution of the state defense order can be formed by any private measures.
    1. andrei332809
      andrei332809 1 December 2013 20: 21
      0
      Alekha! I meant weekly "totals". waited a long time in the morning hi
      1. bask
        bask 1 December 2013 21: 38
        +1
        Evening Good namesake. hi
        At least one positive news for the weekend:
        "" The newest armored car KamAZ-53949 was presented by the delegation of the Ministry of Defense of the Republic of Kazakhstan. "" Http://www.military-informant.com/index.php/army/4223-1.ht
        ml
        Suspension, independent, booking 5-6 GOST. It should already go to factory tests this year.
        But the most important thing is what will be the price of the product, if above 300, thousand $$$, then you can’t see it in the troops.
        1. bask
          bask 1 December 2013 21: 47
          +1
          "" The French company Nexter offers Poland the SZAKAL-2 armored personnel carrier instead of the outdated BRDM-2 "" http://www.military-informant.com/index.php/army/3539-1.html
          Our KamAZ-53949, the French Nexter, is already painfully similar.
          It’s good that even the French supply us with completely modern technology.
          The main thing is to choose the latest.
          1. bask
            bask 1 December 2013 22: 15
            0
            Armored Car Stallion MPV Indian Air Force.

            "" "The new AFV is being developed on the basis of the project of the armored vehicle" Matador "with a 4x4 wheel arrangement of the South African company, using the engine compartment of the all-terrain vehicle" Stallion "Mk.4 of the" Ashok Leyland "company." "" Http: //www.military -informant.com/index.php/army/499-
            stallion-mpv.html
            Armored Corps, double, joint development with Paramaunt Grup, chassis, transmission, engine, all domestic. On the bridges, serial, truck, made in India, Stellion Mk.4. Therefore, the price will be minimal.
            Hindus have already done this with our Urals 4320 and South African Caspir Mv.
            Here is an example to follow. Joint development on the nodes and chassis of serial cars ..
            1. bask
              bask 1 December 2013 22: 30
              +1
              Revolution in the state defense order

              While we continue, the “revolution” in the military-industrial complex in Australia.
              And in Australia, they will order an additional batch of BBM Bushmaster.
              One of the best MULTI-PURPOSE, armored cars .. in the world.
              Bushmaster four-wheel drive with all-wheel drive. Diesel power of 330 l / s, independent suspension, allows the car to accelerate to 110 kilometers per hour. Without refueling Bushmaster is able to overcome 1000 thousand cells.
              The armored car has proven its worth in Afghanistan, both in the mountains and in the desert.
              Resistant to blasting similar to MRAP.
              1. bask
                bask 1 December 2013 22: 53
                0
                Oshkosh Corporation signed a contract with the United States Department of Defense for $ 2009 billion in 1. On the production of a new M-ATV (MRAP 2) cross-country mine clearance vehicle for use in Afghanistan.
                And already by 2013 about 10, thousand units were riveted (These are the volumes of production and rearmament).
  32. lelikas
    lelikas 2 December 2013 00: 31
    0
    Quote: pahom54
    for APES
    Do you want 40-50?

    Well, somehow I manage to live by 30, let’s give your 40-50.