Military Review

How the Russians saved Shevardnadze

42
From the editorial board of “Valiance”: this is the story of a direct participant in the hostilities in Abkhazia and in Western Georgia, when E. Shevardnadze was its president. At that time, the hotbeds of interethnic conflicts that were tearing apart the former Soviet republics had not cooled. A small excursion into the recent history can show for the modern man in the street from an unexpected point the events in the Transcaucasus, which preceded the present-day relations between Russia and its southern neighbor.



In early January, 2000, Tbilisi appealed to Moscow with a request to immediately begin negotiations on an agreement reached in November on the withdrawal of Russian military bases from Vaziani and Gudauta. This, of course, put an end to contacts with Russia in the military sphere, both bilateral and within the CIS. Eduard Shevardnadze never hid the fact that with Georgia’s membership in the Commonwealth he pinned hopes on “restoring justice in Abkhazia”.

“I am in favor of broader economic integration with all states, including non-CIS countries. Unfortunately, integration with Europe did not work out for us, and living in economic isolation would have meant a complete disaster, ”the Georgian president said sadly even 7 years before. 19 September 1993, being in a stalemate in Sukhumi, Shevardnadze appealed to the international community for help: “Maybe someone will say that this is a cry of despair. If this is a cry, then the soul, of my and my people, and I want it to be heard. ” The President of Georgia was heard, strangely enough, his life was saved ... by the Russian marines!

The details hiding by the Georgian leadership so far are told by the commander of the coastal troops and marine corps of Chernomosky fleet in 1987-1995 Major General Vladimir Romanenko.


Sailors from such landing ship "Zubr" saved the life of the President of Georgia


A country fighting for its independence should think about how to protect itself. By the time of the collapse of the USSR, the Black Sea Fleet had a fairly serious naval base in Poti and bases on the territory of Georgia. Its main task was the strategic support of the USSR Armed Forces in the southern direction. When, after 1991, Georgia became an independent state, it was necessary to decide the fate of the Poti base. Immediately after the signing of the Bialowieza Accords, the Black Sea Fleet leadership held talks in Tbilisi with then-President Zviad Gamsakhurdia to preserve the base for guarding the Georgian border. Gamsakhurdia decided that the Black Sea Fleet should leave the base. An entire battalion was separated from the Black Sea Fleet to ensure the evacuation of the main forces and equipment, equipment and weapons. However, we left there a lot of materiel and equipment. When in December 1992, our last ships left Poti, on the pier were the slogans: "Occupants get out of Georgia!"

When Eduard Shevardnadze returned to Georgia in March 1993, the supporters of Gamsakhurdia - “Zviadists” - were already pushed back to the western part of the republic, and active hostilities were conducted simultaneously in Abkhazia. By the way, from there, by amphibious ships, the Black Sea Fleet brought about 11 thousands of refugees. On each ship was a company of marines, which provided security and order during landing.

In September, 1993, Shevardnadze went to Abkhazia, deciding to get acquainted with the situation on the spot. However, as a result of the active actions of the Abkhaz armed forces, the President of Georgia was blocked at the Sukhumi airfield. The situation was critical - the airfield was surrounded on all sides by “shilkas”, Shevardnadze’s security forces were fighting back from the Abkhaz armed formations.

The situation was followed closely in Moscow - then it was President B. Yeltsin, and Defense Minister P. Grachev. The task of ensuring the removal of Shevardnadze from Abkhazia was set directly by Grachev. A high-speed amphibious assault ship Zubr under the command of the captain 1 of the rank of Maximov urgently emerged from Sevastopol. On the ship was a company of marines, led by Colonel Korneev. The fleet commander Edward Baltin was directing the operation directly from the command post, I was next to it.

At that time, a company of the Airborne Forces was in Sukhumi, but by that time it had run out of ammunition and food, and it could not have an impact on the situation. It was planned that the airborne company would lead Shevardnadze to the shore and put him on the ship. Naturally, all Abkhaz anti-aircraft weapons were stationed around the airfield, waiting for the Yak-40 presidential plane to take off from Shevardnadze on board.

I must say that the loud noise of gas turbine engines of a landing ship resembles the noise of a jet aircraft. The Zubr came up to the shore at night, and Abkhaz soldiers decided that they were being attacked by a powerful Russian aviation compound. All air defense systems were brought ashore.

From the ship was visible a solid line of fire, and it was impossible to approach the shore. The hovercraft is made of light alloys and can easily get a hole, because they were firing direct fire. I had to maneuver violently - “Bison” went back to the sea several times. The ship all the time changed the direction of the expected landing, in addition, at night it was not visible, you can hear only a powerful roar. The ship fired on the shore with all its means. The Abkhaz formations, not understanding with whom they were fighting, tried to repel air strikes, then they prevented the landing of the naval landing. Taking advantage of the distraction of the forces and means of the Abkhaz air defense, the Shevardnadze pilots raised the Yak-40 and at a very low altitude over the river went out to sea, and then turned around, went towards Poti and sat down under Kutaisi ...

The Abkhaz military then very much wondered how a single ship created such a panic. Although exactly one year after these events, Baltin and I visited the president of the unrecognized republic Ardzinba in Sukhumi. He received us quite warmly, there was a very serious talk about events a year ago.

So, Shevardnadze owes his life to the Black Sea Fleet of Russia - the Abkhaz would not stand on ceremony with him. And this concerns not only what happened in Sukhumi in 1993 year.

A month after the events described, the situation in Western Georgia became aggravated - armed units paralyzed the life of this region, and of the entire republic, because access to the sea really only provide Batumi and Poti, through which fuel, food and other resources go. Considering the special position of Ajara, Poti is the main port providing life support of Georgia. Under these conditions, Shevardnadze had to turn to the Russian government to save his position and his regime. After Shevardnadze returned to Tbilisi, he continued contacts with the top leadership of the Russian Federation, and in agreement with the Foreign Ministry and the leadership of the Armed Forces in the fall of 1993, a representative of the Georgian president even flew to the Black Sea Fleet.


We discussed with him the terms on which the marines would operate in Georgia. A detachment of a detachment of warships of the Black Sea Fleet with a combat landing group on board was planned to support aviation. The basis of the landing group was the team of the Marine Corps of the Black Sea Fleet. There were about 1600 people on board.

4 November, 1993, the landing force landed in Poti. On the same day, Shevardnadze and Baltin closed negotiations began, which worked out the legal foundations of the presence of naval paratroopers on the territory of Georgia. Sign an agreement was necessary that the grounds for applying weapons were recorded legally. We developed a plan of proposed actions, which Shevardnadze signed.

Then the President of Georgia, in an interview with Sevastopol television, said that support for the Black Sea Fleet "is of great importance, both moral and political," but denied the fact of the infantrymen’s participation in hostilities. Meanwhile, in the first 2-3 days of our stay in Western Georgia, more than 500 militants left Poti and went to the mountains, some of them were handed over to the Georgian police, although all state power was practically paralyzed there. By the way, in Western Georgia we also encountered Chechens who fought on the side of the Zviadists. Chechens use imitations of animal voices as conditional signals. When a wolf howled in the Poti area, we realized “where the legs grow from.” Our scouts spotted them, but the Chechens did not go for a direct clash.

We carried out the so-called "stripping". On November 5, a commandant's office was established in the city, which took up admission control, patrolling streets, and a curfew was introduced. Immediately began to come the Russian ships with food.

Although we arrived in Western Georgia by decision of the presidents of the three countries - Yeltsin, Kravchuk, Shevardnadze (after all, the Black Sea Fleet was then under dual Russian-Ukrainian subordination), after some time, the Ukrainian Supreme Council issued a resolution: return all Ukrainians from the emergency zone to Sevastopol. I appealed to everyone personally with a request to make an independent decision on this matter. There were 86 people in Poti who took the Ukrainian oath, none of the marines agreed to leave, although they did not serve under a contract. Only 24 employees of the marine engineering service left for Sevastopol.

After we secured the work of state bodies and law enforcement agencies throughout the coastal zone, they no longer needed our help. The Russian maritime border guards, who ensured the safety of the territorial waters of Georgia, actively earned. After all, we came with a very serious detachment of warships, all smuggling was excluded. I think then for the Shevardnadze regime we were a salvation.

If you call a spade a spade, he came to power on Russian bayonets and stayed with that power. It is hard for me to look at it through the prism of the promises made by the Georgian president, since it was about restoring the naval base of the Black Sea Fleet in Poti. Even when Russian military bases were established on the territory of Georgia, Poti was not among them. I think after what Russia has done for the establishment of Georgia as an independent state, the current attitude of its authorities towards us is unacceptable.
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42 comments
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  1. samoletil18
    samoletil18 30 November 2013 09: 07
    +9
    Almost 14 years have passed since the article appeared, and the moral of Krylov’s fable about an animal under an oak tree is still relevant today.
  2. samoletil18
    samoletil18 30 November 2013 09: 07
    0
    Almost 14 years have passed since the article appeared, and the moral of Krylov’s fable about an animal under an oak tree is still relevant today.
  3. Denis
    Denis 30 November 2013 09: 17
    23
    Sailors from such landing ship "Zubr" saved the life of the President of Georgia
    One question, why?
    What did he do good Russia, a lot of himself, and what?
    Only a couple with a head with a patch sold
    In vain the guys spent fuel ...
    1. 225chay
      225chay 30 November 2013 11: 24
      13
      Quote: Denis
      One question, why?
      What did he do good Russia, a lot of himself, and what?
      Only a couple with a head with a patch sold

      It was worth saving this villain "White Fox" ...
      Napara with a hunchback helped to ruin the country!
      By the way, I signed a document on the transfer of the sea territory to several thousand square kilometers of the Bering Strait of the shelf where huge fish stocks are located and if I am not mistaken, oil deposits ...
    2. Setrac
      Setrac 30 November 2013 15: 54
      0
      Quote: Denis
      What did he do good Russia, a lot of himself, and what?

      The holder of state secrets.
      1. DimychDV
        DimychDV 30 November 2013 18: 07
        0
        Most likely something in this spirit.
    3. DimychDV
      DimychDV 30 November 2013 18: 06
      +2
      And in the Pacific Ocean during the USSR, in recent years, he gave the Americans many sea territories. Before, we went to the Aleuto-Oregon fishing expeditions - now there is an American zone of influence.
    4. Very old
      Very old 30 November 2013 22: 25
      +4
      We remember how Edik (with the hunchback he was the Minister of Foreign Affairs) gave away a great piece of the sea space of Russia to the states. The agreement has not been ratified so far, but Russia cannot use these waters, but the Yankees manage it. THANKS, edichka.
    5. yurii p
      yurii p 30 November 2013 23: 03
      +1
      IT IS SEEN ONLY THEN THERE WOULD BE IN SUCH A SITUATION AND THEY WERE NOT THROWN, "WE ARE ONE BLOOD" AS ON KIPLING.
    6. Patton5
      Patton5 30 November 2013 23: 11
      +1
      Shevardnadze with ebn accomplices of one crime! So think about why ....
  4. datur
    datur 30 November 2013 10: 44
    +2
    [quote = Denis] [quote] Sailors from such a landing ship "Bison" saved the life of the President of Georgia [/ quote] One question, WHY?
    What did he do good Russia, a lot of himself, and what?
    Only a couple with a head with a patch sold
    In vain the guys spent fuel ... yes, you are right for all 100 - in vain they saved this freak !!!!!
  5. datur
    datur 30 November 2013 10: 44
    +3
    [quote = Denis] [quote] Sailors from such a landing ship "Bison" saved the life of the President of Georgia [/ quote] One question, WHY?
    What did he do good Russia, a lot of himself, and what?
    Only a couple with a head with a patch sold
    In vain the guys spent fuel ... yes, you are right for all 100 - in vain they saved this freak !!!!!
    1. smersh70
      smersh70 30 November 2013 21: 59
      +1
      Quote: datur
      and you’re right for everything 100 - in vain they saved this freak !!!!!

      look. a good movie .... the answer is from 40 minutes. in the face of a greater threat, we chose a smaller one.....
  6. kaktus
    kaktus 30 November 2013 11: 11
    +4
    and you come to cynicism: do not do good, you will not receive evil in return am
  7. smersh70
    smersh70 30 November 2013 13: 54
    -7
    these tales ... but not an article ... where the Abkhazians had Shilki ... who gave them heavy equipment .... after all, they fled when they first attacked at the beginning of the conflict ...... they didn’t even have money to buy weapons ... there was only security and riot police Ardzimba .... with one hand supported the Abkhazians .. to prevent the departure of Georgia left or right .. and when the Abkhazians surrounded Shevardnadze ... extended a hand .. that’s what we see .. we nothing to do with it ... here we are helping ..... they would just give the command to the Abkhazians ... to stop the fire ... and Chevy would fly away ... but no. we’ve arranged the performance .... winked ..
    1. Gamdlislyam
      Gamdlislyam 30 November 2013 14: 58
      +9
      Dear colleague Vurgun (smersh70), I have to agree with you that "shilki" is too much. "Shilka" perfectly sees at night not only "Zubr" at sea, but small vessels. No problem shooting to kill. At the same time, the Abkhazians seized a lot of equipment from the Georgians, whose army represented a rabble of all kinds of "battek" and "battalion commander", more like criminal bosses with their gangs. They were masters to rob, but the warriors were useless. The Abkhaz had ZU-23 (23-mm twin anti-aircraft gun) and MANPADS. Armored vehicles were expropriated from the Georgians.
      At that time, Abkhaz armed units were more likely partisan formations than well-coordinated army units. Therefore, it is doubtful that these formations would obey the demand of Russia (to release Shevarnadze), even if the agreement was with their leadership. Here we must take into account the age-old antogonism that was between the Georgians and the Abkhaz. Even in Brezhnev’s times, the Abkhaz did not hide their hostility towards the Georgians.
      But, as a distracting maneuver for Abkhazians, the Zubr fulfilled the task. The Abkhaz understood very well what kind of ship was and who was there. Well, the author embellished the real facts with a little hunting stories. fellow
      1. smersh70
        smersh70 30 November 2013 16: 02
        -1
        Quote: Gamdlislyam
        Therefore, it is doubtful that these formations would obey the demand of Russia

        1. DimychDV
          DimychDV 30 November 2013 18: 11
          +6
          In the summer of 1994, I was on a campaign in the Elbrus region, and in the Kabardino-Balkarian press I read the recollections of participants in the Caucasian-Islamic military volunteer formations that helped the Abkhaz. So the backbone of them was the Chechens and their commanders - the very ones who, in a year or two, made Russia a pain in their own home.
    2. smile
      smile 30 November 2013 15: 07
      +4
      smersh70
      They would not really obey us.
      The Confederation of Mountain Peoples, which sent a breakthrough of volunteers, including Chechens, there would definitely not obey us, because it did not obey us and was anti-Russian.
      And they didn’t know if they had them, but I know for sure that almost all the equipment, including tanks and hail, was taken from the heroic Georgians who invaded them. If the Georgians had Shilka, then they should have appeared among the Abkhazians ... :)))) And a pair of ZU 23-2 installations was enough to block the airfield - they selected a whole bunch of them from the Georgians.
      I understand that you really want to blame Russia, but alas, for this you will only have to stage performances and lie ... which is exactly what you are doing, rasssolivaya that we all controlled and quarreled.
      1. smersh70
        smersh70 30 November 2013 15: 53
        -3
        Quote: smile
        was selected by them from the heroic Georgians who invaded them on a visit.

        these are the same tales .. what the Armenians say .. as if at the beginning of the war they would have captured Shusha with only bicycles and berdanks .. (really took 366 regiment) .. but if really no FSB (then FSB) would have moved I would have from the North Caucasus .. who trained and prepared Basayev ... who sent him .... as soon as the militants flew from St. Petersburg. so on the way back all of them from the FSB plane.zamelo..and then the militants from the North Caucasus committed the FSK ..it’s also like a gamble with Lazbaev or like him .. before the invasion of Chechnya .. they gave several tanks, mechanics were assembled in Russian military units and moved to Dudaev .. and when he defeated them ... they said that this equipment was repulsed the Chechens ..... remember, yes this story ....
        and about Shilok ... from the Gudauti airfield they immediately delivered the self-propelled guns-122 ... although the Georgians didn’t have them ... and the Abkhaz rooks appeared in the air .... maybe they also captured them from the Georgians ....
        1. smile
          smile 30 November 2013 17: 23
          +3
          smersh70
          So, let's not touch the Armenians.
          Saying that our special services controlled everything and everyone is simply ridiculous, especially in relation to the Confederation of Mountain Peoples. Yeah, not a single fighter ... we also created, trained and controlled Azerbaijani fighters, right? The same applies, incidentally, to the Armenian fighters.
          The country was an unprecedented mess, like you.
          I don’t have reliable information about Basayev’s training - it’s just the tales of some sovereign nationalists and the rumors spread by our liberals - only not the FSB, ostensibly GRU, if there is CERTAIN information from OUR sources - please imagine - I will be glad.

          The comrade you mentioned was called Ruslan Labazanov. Personally, I, as a person, did not like him. Yes, such an operation was carried out, this is no secret. Tank crews were manned by Kantemirovs. But do you think that we tried in vain to stop the Russian genocide in our country, relying on loyal Chechens? Strange ....

          Some of your statements look exactly like the bikes, which I have heard enough forgive. You can quite say - and whose strategic bombers were taunting them with cruise missiles at the poor Georgians, who are freeing their land from bad Abkhazians. Hint, hopefully understood?

          I repeat, complete control was out of the question. By the way, for that matter, I would be glad if he was. Moreover, Georgia took a position hostile to us. It would be necessary to help for real, and not to breed them there in the corners. But the political will of the elbon was not enough.
          1. smersh70
            smersh70 30 November 2013 22: 45
            -1
            Quote: smile
            But the political will of the elbon was not enough.

            there was enough and even more ... As long as Georgian tanks and “Betaers” “ironed” Abkhazia, Boris Yeltsin was silent, like the whole world community, to which the Abkhaz leader Vladislav Ardzinba tried to shout in order to intervene and stop the bloodshed. However, the world community was, as they say, a damn what was happening there in this Abkhazia and where is this Abkhazia in general, since the main goal - the collapse of the USSR - had already been achieved by then, and the rest of the world leaders were not worried. Boris Yeltsin, if guided by materials about his unwillingness to answer the Abkhaz president, apparently had his own plans for this campaign. According to many experts, in 1992 the Kremlin needed a war between Sukhumi and Tbilisi in order to attract Georgia to the CIS and adopt new agreements on the supply of Russian weapons to Tbilisi. However, Shevardnadze, who was the Georgian president at that time, could hardly give Yeltsin such guarantees. He could not give them, because in 1992 Georgia was a real patchwork that burst at the seams: Abkhazia, Adjara, South Ossetia, Megrelia (Mingrelia), and therefore it was not controlled from Tbilisi not only de facto, but often even and de jure. The non-resistance of the KGNK by the Kremlin was a “sewer of separatism” to Abkhazia. Time has confirmed the correctness of Boris Yeltsin, who decided to withdraw KGNK from Nalchik, Maykop and Cherkessk, redirecting his "passionarity" to Gagra and Sukhumi. Political cynicism, national egoism? Maybe. But faced with the Chechen challenge and the Ossetian-Ingush conflict, the Russian authorities thus eliminated a very real Adyghe challenge, the ghost of which acquired very real features in Nalchik in the summer and autumn of 1992.
      2. smersh70
        smersh70 30 November 2013 16: 23
        -2
        Quote: smile
        I understand that you really want to blame Russia, but alas, for this you will only have to stage performances and lie

        I always answer for my words ....
        1. smile
          smile 30 November 2013 17: 28
          +4
          smersh70
          I have no doubt that you are responsible for your words .... but this video is not the answer. A certain unknown person, a certain unknown questioner with a Georgian accent, under certain, unexplained circumstances, it is not known when it says what the Georgian propaganda trumpets, of which we have repeatedly been convinced of the lying ....
          This is not even funny ... I think you do not need to spread such info further? :)))
          1. smersh70
            smersh70 30 November 2013 20: 04
            -1
            Quote: smile
            Some unknown person, no one


            his name is Mikhail .. and now he often comes to Abkhazia ... he fought on the side of the Abkhazians .. go to milkavkaz.net in the rubric of general war ... there is a theme-war in Abkhazia ... you will learn a lot of interesting things .. including. .and about him too .... overall I'm glad I agreed with me fellow remember once and for all .. everything that happened in the post-Soviet space ... everywhere there was the hand of Moscow ... I used to write about this hand in the years of the USSR .. I never believed .. thought of fables .... but that's when all these processes turned around ... I was personally convinced ... that the hand exists anyway .... besides it is very manipulative ... there are a lot of examples ... so let's not whitewash .... but why does it exist .. well this is another question ....
            1. smile
              smile 30 November 2013 21: 02
              +2
              smersh70
              I agreed with you only in the assessment of your person. not with your arguments.
              Regarding the hand of Moscow - I repeat, of course, we tried to make the newly-formed states treat us better, since they all together became cancer backwards to the Americans and started barking at us. So that they do not harm us. But given the lack of political will on the part of the elbon about Moscow’s hand, it’s ridiculous to say that otherwise the newly-formed countries would not have made so many concessions.
              But you were not convinced. that the hand of Moscow leads you (your propaganda convinced you of this). but the fact that Moscow has hands and it can fight back if someone has bad intentions for it ... Sorry. Chegozh here is surprising.
              but somehow I climbed into the site; I really know far from everything and I didn’t know what I know personally. Thanks for the link.
      3. smersh70
        smersh70 30 November 2013 16: 44
        0
        Quote: smile
        then we all controlled and quarreled.

        we will not get into an argument ... but I think during the war in Abkhazia in 1992-93. Russia took part (of course, not with its own regular armed forces). And paradoxically, she "fought" for two sides at once, so to speak. The official authorities in the Kremlin "Yeltsin and Co" transferred weapons to Georgia, helped with ammunition, and the transfer of troops (to Gagra).
        The Abkhaz side was also helped from Russia, but already at the level of Ardzinba's immediate friendship with Russian generals, so to speak, assistance with weapons and ammunition came only out of friendship. Something they bought for real money (for example, suppliers for the Armenian battalion in the Rostov region bought weapons from art warehouses) - then everything could be bought for money, and preferably for "green"
        1. smile
          smile 30 November 2013 17: 36
          0
          smersh70
          The fact that there were our mercenaries on both sides in all conflicts in the Caucasus is a fact.
          The fact that militants of all sides, like yours and the Armenians, for example, seized weapons on a massive scale with the connivance of our command who did not let down such beauties in the bud, is a fact.
          The fact that unscrupulous soldiers sold weapons to everyone in a row is a fact.
          The fact that during the partition of the country all of the neoplasms demanded their share of arms and military equipment, and the elbon was forced to give it to them under the agreement is also a fact.

          And the fact that Russia controlled everyone, quarreled everyone for their pleasure - arrogant lies and propaganda of Russophobes ... especially the Azerbaijani and Georgian sides are trying. Why, I think, is understandable. :)))
          1. smersh70
            smersh70 30 November 2013 20: 09
            -2
            Quote: smile
            Azerbaijani and Georgian side. Why, I think, is understandable. :)))


            yes .. you forgot..kazakhstan and ukrainian too ... laughing in principle. in the last time they forgot about us and the Georgians fellow right now your brothers-Slavs-Ukrainians are in fashion ... wassat
            Quote: smile
            controlled everyone

            it’s a fact ... it’s useless to argue .. the young. undeveloped states ... there was still a great influence of the center ... but every day it gets harder and harder ... the national part nomenclature is getting stronger and stronger ... here we are We signed an agreement with the EU ... it's true ... peculiar ... well, until Moscow touches ... knows ... that we have oil and money ... Yeltsin tried to come to us in the mid-90s - nothing happened. ..that is now Ukraine ....
            Quote: smile
            all quarreled for pleasure - arrogant lies

            Well, I didn’t say that .... Much is already involved here ...
            1. smile
              smile 30 November 2013 20: 56
              +2
              smersh7
              I have not forgotten anyone, I have indicated only those whose propaganda is yelling about this very thing ..
              Propaganda from Poland, the Baltic states and Bandera. whom I do not consider to be Ukrainians — otherwise — there we did not quarrel — we occupied everyone. Kazakh propaganda on the topic of whom we quarreled and whom we helped at the same time does not apply.
              So, you don’t have to try to bring down the coalition :)) it won’t work .... it’s exactly the countries I have indicated in this field have distinguished themselves especially ... :)))

              You are still thinking. what did we all control? :))) yes, you are right - it is useless to argue with you. Since you are an intelligent person, you are intentionally, for obvious reasons, trying to mislead in this regard. :)) Sorry :)))
              The entire elite of the newly formed states came under the slogans of Russophobia .. almost everywhere. They were ready to shit themselves, if only we were worse. What kind of control are we talking about? if the special services split and some of them also fell into the ranks of Russophobes - along with the archives. The agents turned out to be illuminated. A host of traitors arose in the special services themselves, and personally you can’t know about it because of your professional activities ... :))) Elbon gave up all the positions of Russia wherever and wherever possible - such concessions were made to all republics, which they didn’t even hope ... for anything to control ... you are wrong.

              If Russia went to you, even with the Elbon, excuse me, but there would be no wet place left from you ... and you cannot but know this. So, please do not say that Yeltsin went to you ... well, why not tell a lie ...
              According to the last sentence, I exaggerated, but your statements were approximately as follows.
              1. smersh70
                smersh70 30 November 2013 21: 35
                -3
                Quote: smile
                but there would be no wet place from you

                left .. only 80% left laughing they chopped off the rest ... they could certainly have done more ... but then G. Aliyev intervened ... and outplayed Yeltsin ... and then the eokonomic noose went ... maybe you were young then ... but you must remember that starting from the year 95, Yeltsin completely blocked the border .. didn’t let in a single gram of fruit and vegetables .. the truth then Onishenko was still not in power .. his methods didn’t work)))) and the cover was the war in Chechnya ....
                Quote: smile
                if the special services split and some of them also fell into the ranks of Russophobes -

                Well, about this ... it's not our fault that the 3 Slavs decided to split up the country ... so not to give everything to the rest. Each republic had the right to its share .. because everyone made their contribution to the development of the USSR .. even the agents smile
    3. Setrac
      Setrac 30 November 2013 16: 02
      +1
      Quote: smersh70
      these tales .. but not an article .. where did the Abkhazians have Shilki ... who gave them heavy equipment .... after all, they fled when they first attacked at the beginning of the conflict ...... they did not even have money weapons ... there was only security and riot police

      Yes, there were no shilok, the Abkhazians were not even going to resist initially. But Georgians marched through Abkhazia as occupiers in the occupied territory. Abkhazians stopped the Georgians with rifles and pistols, few had automatic weapons.
      1. smersh70
        smersh70 30 November 2013 16: 19
        0
        Quote: Setrac
        Bkhazians stopped the Georgians with rifles and pistols, few had automatic weapons.

        better read.)))) version of V.Eshba’s memoirs about S. Sosnaliyeva about events ... Abkhaz writes ...
        I was born on March 13, 1949 in with. Duripsh of the Gudauta district. In 1970 he graduated from the Egorievsk Aviation Technical School, in 1973 - the Kremenchug Flight School, in 1983 - the Leningrad Academy of Civil Aviation. In the pre-war period he was the crew commander of the Tu-134 aircraft, the commander of the Sukhumi squadron. A confidential conversation took place between us. “We are in a fairly serious position. - said Sosnaliev. “In order to facilitate it, it is necessary to establish air links between Abkhazia and the North Caucasus.” I was instructed to get to Nalchik and get in touch with the right people. By sea, I reached Sochi, and then from the Adler airport on the Tu-154 I flew to Mineralnye Vody. From there, I took a bus to Nalchik, then, by car, to Grozny. The whole city was noisy, people from Chechnya, Kabardino-Balkaria, Karachay-Cherkessia, Dagestan gathered on the central square and held solidarity actions with Abkhazia. Gennady Alamia was already in the Chechen capital, and Sergey Shamba soon arrived. Yusup Soslambekov accepted us at the headquarters of the KGNK, assuring us of his unconditional support and promising to assist in the acquisition and transfer of arms and ammunition to Abkhazia. On the second day, we met with Dzhokhar Dudaev. The head of Chechnya gave what is called a “green light”. We rented two An-2 planes, signing flight assignments to Khabez and Cherkessk, and then flew over Abkhazia through the Main Caucasian Range. The first plane I flew with the Chechen Abdullah Eldarkhanov, the second - Nodar Gerzmava and Leonid Pkin. On August 27, 1992, we landed in a clearing in the vicinity of the Lykhny Temple, unloading weapons and ammunition. I was brought to headquarters to Sultan Aslambekovich. He was very happy to learn about the successful completion of the mission. And on August 27 from that time we celebrate as the Day of Abkhaz aviation.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac 30 November 2013 18: 00
          +3
          Quote: smersh70
          better read.)))) version of V.Eshba’s memoirs about S. Sosnaliyeva about events ... Abkhaz writes ...

          I do not need to read, my father is from Abkhazia, and there are many relatives there. First-hand information. How Georgians walked without resistance, how Georgians shot at windows of houses, burned cars, killed unarmed people. Abkhazians certainly did not expect such behavior from the Georgian army. Yes, they were stopped by militias and police at the last frontier, in the suburbs of Sukhum. Like a German near Moscow, the scale is certainly not the same, but the meaning is the same. My uncle participated in this war, I can ask him, and you advise me to read propaganda here.
          1. Geokingxnumx
            Geokingxnumx 3 December 2013 18: 03
            0
            Quote: Setrac
            I do not need to read, my father is from Abkhazia, and there are many relatives there. First-hand information. How Georgians walked without resistance, how Georgians shot at windows of houses, burned cars, killed unarmed people. Abkhazians certainly did not expect such behavior from the Georgian army. Yes, they were stopped by militias and police at the last frontier, in the suburbs of Sukhum. Like a German near Moscow, the scale is certainly not the same, but the meaning is the same. My uncle participated in this war, I can ask him, and you advise me to read propaganda here.

            which in the suburbs of Sukhum? Sukhum was taken for 4 of the day) the Abkhazians retreated) they controlled a very small territory! they had no equipment! then there was a ceasefire! and then they took Gagra (with the help of Basayev of his people and Cossacks)! and Pat and already from Russia went Technique and weapons) so) Russia helped their weapons and their Air Force also participated! even the ships were given for the Tamish landings! Well, isho and Russian ALFA was in Sukhum with Shoigu! They guarded Shevardnadze if something happens in Sukhumi)
      2. DimychDV
        DimychDV 30 November 2013 18: 15
        0
        But the Chechens had incentives to practice fighting, and I think they were among the most determined defenders of the faith brothers - the Abkhazians. More precisely, the raiders on the Georgians.
        1. 225chay
          225chay 30 November 2013 19: 52
          +1
          Quote: DimychDV
          But the Chechens had incentives to practice fighting, and I think they were among the most determined defenders of the faith brothers - the Abkhazians. More precisely, the raiders on the Georgians.

          I apologize, but the Muslims are Chechen, and the Abkhazians are Christians ...
          Nevertheless, the highlanders of the North Caucasus helped the Abkhaz in their struggle, as did the Cossacks, Transnistrians and just the Russian people
          1. Gamdlislyam
            Gamdlislyam 30 November 2013 22: 54
            0
            Quote: 225chay
            I apologize, but the Muslims are Chechen, and the Abkhazians are Christians ...

            Dear colleague 225chay, you are not quite right. In Abkhazia there are Christians, Muslims, and Gentiles. In Abkhazia there are now several dozen Orthodox churches, two monasteries, five functioning pagan sanctuaries, two functioning mosques, a Catholic and Lutheran church, and a synagogue. In essence, most Abkhazians practice their traditional religion (Abkhazian monotheism), even if they are formally considered Christians or Muslims. Christians in Abkhazia rarely attend church. Muslims eat pork there, drink wine and do not circumcise. Rarely does anyone read the Bible or the Qur'an. All religious holidays - Christian, Muslim and pagan - are celebrated jointly by representatives of different religions, which are united at one common holiday table.
        2. Setrac
          Setrac 30 November 2013 19: 52
          +1
          Quote: DimychDV
          But the Chechens had incentives to practice fighting, and I think they were among the most determined defenders of the faith brothers - the Abkhazians. More precisely, the raiders on the Georgians.

          This was later, when the Georgians could not quickly win.
  8. RoTTor
    RoTTor 30 November 2013 14: 24
    +2
    In vain saved the traitor!
    And Abkhaz troops were commanded by my colleague, neighbor and senior comrade Sultan Aslambekovich Sosnaliev, in the past - the commander of the fighter aviation regiment of air defense in the North, who went through all the steps in the Soviet Army, later - the Minister of Defense and Deputy Prime Minister of Abkhazia, Lieutenant General, Hero of Abkhazia . But the main thing is the REAL SOVIET MAN AND OFFICER. He also won the 2008 war. Everlasting memory!
  9. RoTTor
    RoTTor 30 November 2013 14: 24
    0
    In vain saved the traitor!
    And Abkhaz troops were commanded by my colleague, neighbor and senior comrade Sultan Aslambekovich Sosnaliev, in the past - the commander of the fighter aviation regiment of air defense in the North, who went through all the steps in the Soviet Army, later - the Minister of Defense and Deputy Prime Minister of Abkhazia, Lieutenant General, Hero of Abkhazia . But the main thing is the REAL SOVIET MAN AND OFFICER. He also won the 2008 war. Everlasting memory!
  10. Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 30 November 2013 15: 06
    +1
    This legend is many years old ...
    "53rd" (Bison) did everything in his power, just dashing Moremans.
    good
    And how the Chevy really escaped, either on his Yak-40, or on the "teshka bees" (Mi-8T) of the Emergencies Ministry with Alpha ... there are many rumors.
    Good do not remember ... eheh.

    It is a pity that the heroic Bison, later transferred to Ukraine ("Gorlovka"), was first rendered useless, and then ... if I am not mistaken, he is now working in Greece, he was sold.
    1. kudwar68
      kudwar68 1 December 2013 10: 46
      0
      I saw this "ZUBR" in September 93, the handsome man has nothing to say, next to the coast from us he transported Georgian refugees to our airfield! It's a pity if this is the fate of this ship ...
  11. kafa
    kafa 30 November 2013 16: 48
    -2
    anathema to yeltsin am glory to the marines soldier
  12. kafa
    kafa 30 November 2013 16: 48
    0
    anathema to yeltsin am glory to the marines soldier
  13. biglow
    biglow 30 November 2013 16: 57
    +1
    politicians will be forgotten for betraying all this grief ...
  14. biglow
    biglow 30 November 2013 16: 57
    0
    politicians will be forgotten for betraying all this grief ...
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. Black
    Black 30 November 2013 21: 33
    0
    That's what is amazing ....
    Russia by and large, to the detriment of itself, investing immeasurably in the fact that the peoples of the same Caucasus live, live with dignity, turns out to be in the eyes of these same "freedom-loving" representatives of the peoples of Janus, a bastard.
    What comes to mind ... You need to push to a wet spot. Crushed-more love and respect will be.
    The trouble is that in the beginning of 90 there was no one to push ....
    1. smersh70
      smersh70 30 November 2013 21: 57
      +1
      Quote: Chen
      the peoples of the same Caucasus lived, lived in dignity,

      all peoples belonging to the USSR lived in dignity ...
      Quote: Chen
      appears in the eyes of these same "freedom-loving" representatives of the peoples

      and it turned out to be not Russia ... but representatives of its elite .. against the people, nobody says anything ... who sold the USSR ... Gorbachev .. who weakened Russia. Yeltsin ... they were not Georgians. or Azerbaijanis ... and it was precisely under Georgian-Stalin that the USSR-Russia achieved great influence and prosperity ...
      Quote: Chen
      Press it to a wet spot.

      Well, this is not the way ... this is the whip method ..... here is the pro-Russian Yanukovych .. so he wants to dump wassat but you have to gingerbread .. gingerbread .... good
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 30 November 2013 22: 35
        0
        Quote: smersh70
        all peoples belonging to the USSR lived in dignity ...

        These are all fairy tales like all equal, in fact, some are more equal than others. For some reason, the republics lived more worthy of the Russians, why should they get such privileges?
        1. smersh70
          smersh70 30 November 2013 22: 47
          +1
          Quote: Setrac
          For some reason, the republics lived more worthy of Russian

          Well, where did such loud statements come from ... the level of life in the USSR was the same .... there is nothing to pull the blanket on others ....
          1. Black
            Black 30 November 2013 22: 56
            0
            Quote: smersh70
            Well, where did such loud statements come from ... the level of life in the USSR was the same .... there is nothing to pull the blanket on others ....


            You, apparently, were unlikely to find the USSR.
            I happened to compare the RSFSR with Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, the Baltic States, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan.
            With full responsibility, I can say, the level of investments in the social sphere, in roads, in infrastructure in national formations was an order of magnitude higher ... maybe for excl. Moldova ...
            1. smersh70
              smersh70 30 November 2013 23: 25
              +1
              Quote: Chen
              You, apparently, were unlikely to find the USSR.

              look at the nickname .. and I hope you can guess .. I caught or not the USSR .... I traveled around the USSR more than you probably ... was not only in Central Asia ... and right now I can easily pass from memory a column of cars on or other routes))) or cities)))) .. and I can tell you that according to my views .. the level of investments according to your parameters was that .. Belarus Russia .. Georgia ... Ukraine .. Baltic ... . well this dispute has no continuation ......
      2. Black
        Black 30 November 2013 23: 02
        0
        Quote: smersh70
        well this is not the way ... this is the whip method ..... here is Yanukovych pro-Russian .. so he wants to topple wassat but he needs to have a carrot ... gingerbread .... good


        I'm talking about the situation of 89-91. The child must be flogged - when it lies across the bench, it’s easy late.
  17. alone
    alone 30 November 2013 22: 17
    +2
    what happened in the early 90s is still shrouded in mystery, which will not soon be open to everyone. It was interesting that the Grozny airport at 92-93, planted several IL-76s a day, loaded everything there that could shoot and sent to the Caucasus, all without exception. and for this Dudaev was paid with different weapons. They say most of all he liked to pay with grenade launchers.

    but the fact that Shevardnadze was rescued is not surprising. Well, let’s say if he would be overwhelmed. Then just another Gamsakhurdia would come instead of him, or something similar to him. Although the EBN did a lot of trouble, but in this case it turned out to be right.
  18. Black
    Black 30 November 2013 23: 09
    0
    Quote: lonely
    what happened in the early 90s is still shrouded in mystery


    Yes what secret there !!! Gagging, irresponsibility, a complete lack of skills in analyzing and constructing plans for at least a short time perspective.

    In general, all that happens when people came to power at the level of regional grinding, and this is at best.

    Sheva was saved ... surely sure, but even so sorry ... he is one of the active distributors of the Motherland. You bastard!
    1. smersh70
      smersh70 30 November 2013 23: 27
      +1
      Quote: Chen
      You bastard!

      Class. Liked .. laughing good .immediately obvious ... they said from the souls ... !!! but he was not the main one who determined the policy of the party and government ... all the same, tell the same thing about Gorbach ... that's where the root of evil lies ....
  19. xomaNN
    xomaNN 1 December 2013 16: 59
    +1
    Abkhazia - I have loved the Land of Souls since Soviet times for its wonderful nature, foothills and coast. I’ve been there several times since my students, and I read all the materials about it with interest.

    But to save the forces of the Black Sea Fleet Shevardnadze? It was not worth it to risk sailors' lives for this "hero". In the post of Minister of Foreign Affairs of the USSR, this man (who was elevated there by no less "specialist") surrendered the interests of the Union on the world arena, as if he was working for the enemies!
  20. xomaNN
    xomaNN 1 December 2013 16: 59
    0
    Abkhazia - I have loved the Land of Souls since Soviet times for its wonderful nature, foothills and coast. I’ve been there several times since my students, and I read all the materials about it with interest.

    But to save the forces of the Black Sea Fleet Shevardnadze? It was not worth it to risk sailors' lives for this "hero". In the post of Minister of Foreign Affairs of the USSR, this man (who was elevated there by no less "specialist") surrendered the interests of the Union on the world arena, as if he was working for the enemies!
  21. PUHACH
    PUHACH 1 December 2013 20: 48
    +1
    Quote: smersh70
    all peoples belonging to the USSR lived with dignity ..
    ............ What is worthy in your concept ... very interesting ..
    1. smersh70
      smersh70 1 December 2013 21: 38
      +5
      Quote: PUHACH
      What is worthy of your concept?

      at least there was bread on the table, walking home with his head held high, with a certain amount of money in his pocket and confidence in the future ... fellow .
  22. PUHACH
    PUHACH 1 December 2013 22: 40
    -1
    Quote: smersh70
    there was bread on the table, he walked home with his head held high,

    ..................... That's just the point .... only the bread was on the table ... Why did you lift your head up like that? ...
  23. Jack7691
    Jack7691 2 December 2013 14: 18
    -1
    1. Just a warning (if you want to believe it, you want to - do not believe it) - never believe Georgians. After you believe in love and respect for him, a Georgian will sit on your neck and, with assurances of love, will live at your expense. And in addition he will cherish you with all his countrymen.
    2. As the response of PUHACH: not only bread. And to judge, you need to know at least something. Proudly raised head because:
    a) Learned for free, and excellently taught
    b) Treated, too, for free, and good. And no one demanded money for the extra day you spent in the hospital
    c) Pioneer camps were for everyone - also free
    d) They even gave out apartments - but the truth was, it was necessary to work somewhere