Military Review

The generals did not pay off with the Odessa designers for electronic "ears" for artillery

30

Odessa Special Design Bureau "Lightning" appealed to the Economic Court of Kiev with a lawsuit against the Ministry of Defense. The company requires to recover almost 8 million hryvnias from the military department. This is money that the generals owed to designers for upgrading the existing and developing new "electronic ears" for the army.


It is, in particular, the reconnaissance automated sound-measuring complex (RAK) "Position-2", which was adopted in the spring of this year.

We note that “Lightning” is now more than ever in need of funds: even in the summer, the executive service seized the bureau accounts (CSC lost the court to the Pension Fund and should pay him almost 400 thousand hryvnia).

The state enterprise Special Design Bureau Molniya was founded in Odessa in 1972 year. SKB developments are used in military engineering, energy, communication systems, engineering and other fields. Over the 40 years of its existence, Molniya has developed and introduced several generations of sound systems that are in service with the Ukrainian and other armies.

His latest SPEC - "Position-2" - the bureau began to develop in 1995, and completed in December last year. The complex, says SKB Director Vladimir Mingalev, has no analogues in the post-Soviet space.

Such systems on the planet produce only six states - the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, the Netherlands and Israel. Odessa product in this company is quite competitive, say its creators.

The task of the sound complex is to determine the location of guns, mortars and enemy volley fire installations by the sound of shots, then direct their guns at them and adjust their fire.

Razk consists of a hardware machine based on a multi-purpose transporter MT-LBu, three acoustic bases, nine highly sensitive sensor microphones and a weather station. The used navigation equipment is “sharpened” under the American GPS or Russian GLONASS.

Audio information arriving through the receiver “Positions” is processed by a computer, which provides the coordinates of the enemy’s firing artillery and the points of breaks for shells and mines fired by friendly cannons. All data is transmitted via encrypted communication channels and is displayed online on the screen of the operator and the digital tablet of the artillery commander.

The maximum range at which the complex hears the enemy - 35 kilometers. He can correct his fire at a distance of 15 km. The closer the sound source is, the more precisely the SCM determines its location.
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  1. svp67
    svp67 27 November 2013 10: 19
    +3
    Odessa Special Design Bureau "Lightning" appealed to the Economic Court of Kiev with a lawsuit against the Ministry of Defense. The company requires to recover almost 8 million hryvnias from the military department. This is money that the generals owed to designers for upgrading the existing and developing new "electronic ears" for the army.
    Class, they are not only in no hurry to pay Russia, but they also seem to be unable to contain their own armed forces ... They have come.
    1. APES
      APES 27 November 2013 10: 25
      +4
      Quote: svp67
      but it seems that they cannot contain their own aircraft


      and why? laughing
      1. AVV
        AVV 27 November 2013 15: 49
        +2
        The whole army is being transferred to a contract well, well !!!
    2. ShturmKGB
      ShturmKGB 27 November 2013 10: 45
      +4
      Nothing, if the development is worthwhile, then I think Russia will be interested in it ... after it turns to face it ...
      1. Shadowcat
        Shadowcat 27 November 2013 11: 32
        +1
        IMHA, given the desire and the speed of turning, it is worth going according to the old aphorism - "If they turn their backs on you - do not get upset, but attach."
      2. ShturmKGB
        ShturmKGB 27 November 2013 12: 14
        0
        in the sense, Ukraine will turn to face Russia ...
      3. mirag2
        mirag2 27 November 2013 13: 41
        +1
        It is dangerous to use technologies from Ukraine, if they, of course, must be protected, the CIA is there, for sure, like at home.
        If such a mess in domestic politics is going on ...
        1. escobar
          escobar 27 November 2013 15: 34
          +5
          If such a mess in domestic politics is going on ...
          You look, they have order, thieves' power and order ... Look at yourself, the right ones are, well, Switzerland is right.
          1. Very old
            Very old 27 November 2013 16: 22
            +5
            No offense. Two sisters, and both are not yet in the mind.
            1. alone
              alone 27 November 2013 21: 57
              +2
              Hi Valentine! You are right, but few people understand this.
    3. Hunghuz
      Hunghuz 27 November 2013 14: 35
      0
      hi Odessans of all countries UNITY ........)))))))) or apyat wild ashibitsya ???
    4. Very old
      Very old 27 November 2013 16: 18
      +2
      I don’t even know what to answer for you; it’s not the generals who are holding up. Okologeneralsky
    5. Siberian German
      Siberian German 27 November 2013 21: 30
      0
      and if I had money, it would help them, and production would drag to us - an interesting device
  2. Migari
    Migari 27 November 2013 10: 33
    +3

    Note that Lightning now, as never before, needs funds
    Like the whole of Ukraine.
  3. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 27 November 2013 11: 08
    +5
    Heroic people are these inhabitants of Odessa. In such a nightmare, such first-class complexes are created. And someone else owes for this ... complete insanity!
  4. Shadowcat
    Shadowcat 27 November 2013 11: 35
    +3
    Surely someone wants to close the enterprise. Do you believe in nonsense that you need to love a competitor, and not try to become a monopolist?
  5. makarov
    makarov 27 November 2013 12: 06
    +6
    I will comment on the words of Azarov: - The crumbling has already arrived, ale bagato hto yogo does not reel ...
    1. Panikovsky
      Panikovsky 27 November 2013 16: 38
      +2
      Quote: makarov
      I will comment on the words of Azarov: - The crumbling has already arrived, ale bagato hto yogo does not reel ...

      Makarov, you plus, it’s a pity that only a resident of Ukraine can appreciate the joke.
      1. Sergius
        Sergius 27 November 2013 17: 17
        +2
        "Improvement has already begun, but many do not see it" - translation for residents of Russia
        1. ZU-23
          ZU-23 28 November 2013 07: 45
          0
          He also knew, but if people write this, then it would be possible to translate immediately for others.
  6. Druid
    Druid 27 November 2013 12: 18
    +7
    The crisis in Ukraine, as we see, did not stop the developers, in this regard, the situation resembles the same in Russia in the 90s.
    The station really has few analogs in the world, unlike the Russian Zoo and its western counterparts, despite the great range and accuracy of the latter, this station is passive, which makes it difficult to detect, plus inexpensive, so it will be in demand on the arms market and I think the situation for this Ukrainian enterprise will improve.
    1. Very old
      Very old 27 November 2013 16: 20
      +1
      Moreover, the generals themselves do not pay for work. Who steers finances?
      1. makarov
        makarov 27 November 2013 19: 05
        +3
        "Moreover, the generals themselves do not pay for the work. Who rules the finances?"

        It is known who (!) - Bitch, Son and K *
  7. Neighbor
    Neighbor 27 November 2013 12: 40
    +2
    They were counting, apparently, that the EU, as a war, would write everything off.
  8. sapran
    sapran 27 November 2013 12: 57
    +4
    As usual in the article there are few specifics and arrows that are not at the addressees.
    If development or modernization was carried out, then people should have an Act of acceptance of research work or ACT of the work performed. (if there is such, I see no reason for concern), but if there are contentious issues regarding the quality or results of research, then this may be the reason for not paying the bills.
    In addition, it’s not the generals who rule here, but the Defense Ministry, and here we have the majority of civilians (from Makeyevka or Donetsk, Lugansk), in general, proteges of one clan, so there are questions to whom they chose.
    Marco decides not to pay the bills of the MoD and the head of the Procurement Department accepts, but not the chief of the General Staff or communications troops).
    A lot of entrepreneurs are trying to suck in or stretch out under state security that the tests have not passed or the declared characteristics are impracticable and then pouting sponges shout "guard! They don't like us"
    1. boris.sibir
      boris.sibir 27 November 2013 15: 26
      0
      like Taburetnikov. A flock of pubic lice.
    2. Akim
      Akim 27 November 2013 17: 37
      +1
      Quote: sapran
      As usual in the article there are few specifics and arrows that are not at the addressees.

      Well, finally, give sensible comments, not political XE ... above.
  9. stayer
    stayer 27 November 2013 13: 30
    +1
    Judicial trouble is always not a pleasant thing. But I want to ask on the technical side those who are probably in the know. Is such a complex necessary? Hearing 35 kilometers in war is perhaps cool. Just what is the real accuracy? Just sound waves, especially in mountainous terrain or on a landscape with a heterogeneous coating, are very strongly reflected and distorted. Surely there are a bunch of other conditions for the propagation of sound waves. Can it be much more accurate to use electronic tracking systems or drones at last? In general, there are many questions.
  10. SovMan
    SovMan 27 November 2013 14: 25
    +6
    In Odessa there were many factories, design bureau, research institutes connected with military and not only electronics and other near-military subjects. I happened to visit the ruins of some of them, those that did not occupy the business centers. The picture resembles shots from Pripyat - collapsed abandoned rooms that were not captured just because there were too many who wanted and the territory of the decade was under arrest. The most painful thing to see on the walls is the old wall newspapers with photographs of working shops full of life, at the sight of the current state, my heart is contracting and tears are coming to my eyes - this is how everything had to be requested ...
  11. ParapaPanda
    ParapaPanda 27 November 2013 14: 47
    +3
    It pains me to read such news about Ukraine, but even more painful to read about their "independent successes". They would cease to dress up and become part of the union state.
  12. Cristall
    Cristall 27 November 2013 14: 49
    +1
    unfortunately you are right - the picture of the collapsed shops there is still no business cents - depressing.
    Sometimes only in VO you learn about Odessa developments, but I do not know about it in Odessa inside the city
    There was a lot in Odessa - staff were prepared right there (many institutes, universities, etc.). The city is big. The big picture of how things are now - there’s even nowhere to find. Recently I tried to find out how many percent of GDP the city gives to the treasury ... except for the figure of 5 million, I did not find anything ...
  13. Kulneff2009
    Kulneff2009 27 November 2013 14: 49
    +2
    Who does not want to feed his army, will feed someone else's!
    1. IGS
      IGS 27 November 2013 22: 48
      0
      Let the army buy checkers, not modern weapons. Explain to me the tactics of using this "barn" in modern combat conditions? In a city battle it is useless because of the acoustic features of the city itself, and because of the use of seismic sensors to determine the coordinates of surface vibrations with a large presence of underground utilities. In the conditions of the mountains, the same, but also because of the sharp changes in altitude and the unevenness of the atmosphere (pressure, temperature, humidity, etc.), it is for this that a weather station is installed on it, but the calculations are carried out for the place where the station itself is located, and not over the entire path of propagation of the sound wave. The fact of deployment to get started, not "on the go", low accuracy. Determining the position only after the firing of a shot, and not obtaining data to prevent it, a small drone will cope with this better and more accurately, and most importantly, cheaper. She was very necessary in the First World War, where positional artillery duels prevailed.
      1. And Us Rat
        And Us Rat 28 November 2013 00: 10
        0
        Quote: IGS
        Let the army buy checkers, not modern weapons. Explain to me the tactics of using this "barn" in the conditions of modern combat? It is useless in urban combat due to the acoustic features of the city itself ...


        This device (I don’t remember the exact name) detects the direction of the stelage by sound, sniper, mortar, and so on. including in the city, the computer of the device can distinguish the sound source from the echo and cut off background noise, can be mounted on everything that goes - the soldiers are very praised.

        1. IGS
          IGS 28 November 2013 07: 12
          0
          I wrote about this device above, the thing is necessary, it makes it possible to quickly determine the direction from which the shot was made and the approximate range, it will save many lives when fighting in a city, where it is sometimes impossible to immediately determine even the direction of the enemy firing point location. Plus, the automatic mode, simplicity: a computer with software and highly sensitive microphones, software is easily updated, not only the sound of a shot is heard, but the flying bullet itself, with a good database, it can even determine the type of weapon from which the shot was fired, and .... lack of crew smile Let's say the task for this device is very necessary, to show the direction where it is diving, and not fussing and dumbfounded to twist your head with the question: "B. I, where from?" No, of course you can fix that "shed" on which thread "armored car", and determine the shot of the howitzer at 30 km.
  14. Cristall
    Cristall 27 November 2013 14: 49
    0
    unfortunately you are right - the picture of the collapsed shops there is still no business cents - depressing.
    Sometimes only in VO you learn about Odessa developments, but I do not know about it in Odessa inside the city
    There was a lot in Odessa - staff were prepared right there (many institutes, universities, etc.). The city is big. The big picture of how things are now - there’s even nowhere to find. Recently I tried to find out how many percent of GDP the city gives to the treasury ... except for the figure of 5 million, I did not find anything ...
    1. 222222
      222222 27 November 2013 15: 31
      +1
      Cristall UA Today, 14:49 New .. picture of crumbling shops
      ... And on the road from Odessa to Chabanka - Mansions and Palaces ..
      1. Akim
        Akim 27 November 2013 17: 40
        +1
        Quote: 222222
        .. And on the road from Odessa to Chabanka, there are Mansions and Palaces ..

        Along the coast so.
      2. O_RUS
        O_RUS 27 November 2013 18: 03
        +3
        Quote: 222222
        ... And on the road from Odessa to Chabanka - Mansions and Palaces ..


        so there the servants of the people rest
  15. IGS
    IGS 27 November 2013 15: 10
    +2
    Dimensions, cost, deployment time for an accurate determination (the fact of deployment itself), the actual impossibility of using it in a city, makes the use of this system effective in positional warfare, and firing at areas. The drone is cheaper, and the accuracy of target designation is higher. In America, acoustic systems are installed on equipment, they instantly, in automatic mode, determine the direction and range to the firing point from which the fire is fired, primarily from small arms, is used mainly in urban combat, and the volume of equipment is slightly larger than the box from under the boots. Perhaps there is a need for such systems, but with the modern development of technology, there are ways easier, more reliable and more accurate, and most importantly cheaper. Maybe I'm wrong. Then explain how, it seems, the time of positional artduels has ended.
    1. Lesnik
      Lesnik 27 November 2013 23: 21
      0
      I completely agree absolutely outdated device
  16. Igor_kh
    Igor_kh 27 November 2013 16: 41
    0
    And cho, if in the Russian Federation now the revival of the agro-industrial complex, a state official (s) in power, then don’t hesitate and they will buy this design bureau soldier
  17. Igor_kh
    Igor_kh 27 November 2013 16: 43
    0
    And cho, if in the Russian Federation now the revival of the agro-industrial complex, a state official (s) in power, then don’t hesitate and they will buy this design bureau soldier
    1. Akim
      Akim 27 November 2013 17: 43
      0
      Quote: Igor_kh
      then don’t buy it and buy it back in the bud

      Approximate scheme please?
      1. Lesnik
        Lesnik 28 November 2013 01: 11
        0
        Like most enterprises in Ukraine
  18. avg
    avg 27 November 2013 17: 32
    +1
    Yes, ascetics in Ukraine have not been extinct.
    The article vividly reminded me of how in the dashing 90s my friend, an Academy teacher, was preparing to conduct classes at night, guarding the warehouse, with computers that were newfangled then. And the other, a GS officer, guarded cow carcasses at a meat processing plant so that workers would not cut out their tongues.
    So maybe they can earn some money in the port so far? good
  19. Cristall
    Cristall 27 November 2013 20: 01
    +1
    historically Odessa is a city of moving people, always traded at all times.
    But I personally don’t like it, buy it. these guys from Lightning are doing business, not in the vegetable market.
  20. Druid
    Druid 27 November 2013 22: 25
    -1
    Quote: IGS
    Then explain how, it seems, the time of positional artduels has ended.
    No, everything is as before, for most conflicts on the planet, artillery still plays a crucial role.
    Quote: IGS
    The volume of the equipment is a little more than a box from under the boots.
    And even here it is not large, the Ukrainians chose the chassis on the principle "that I have that and I am glad", especially since there is MT-LBu in the divisions and it will be practically impossible to single out this particular vehicle.
    Quote: IGS
    The drone is cheaper, and the accuracy of target designation is higher.
    Misconception, firstly, drones are cheaper, and secondly, you forgot about this:

    thirdly, drones are not omnipotent, however, like satellites, and their capabilities do not allow to detect many targets, especially at the right time, for example, at least depending on weather conditions.
    Etc. etc.
    1. Lesnik
      Lesnik 28 November 2013 01: 13
      +1
      You dear imagine the battle formation of this complex? If so, what other questions do you have no answers?
      1. IGS
        IGS 28 November 2013 08: 14
        +1
        For such devices, there is no problem of choosing a chassis, it MUST NOT have a chassis, as well as the crew serving it. Such devices are installed as a radio receiver. It would be interesting to watch your reaction if I tried to sell you, for example, a DVD player the size of your apartment, and to it five more who will live with you, turn on the player and insert discs, and these five so that you they could enjoy their favorite melody, they will have another hour to measure, arrange, turn on before you hear the melody itself. The performance characteristics of this wunderwafe with a ball (it seems that the weather station includes a meteorological probe) is much worse than the "Zoo" where the radar is used for the same purposes. And for positional battles, wall to wall is more suitable. The presence of external radio emission in the course of combat operations, which, in your opinion, remain the main ones, will not have a large unmasking effect.
        and their capabilities do not allow you to detect many targets, especially at the right time, for example, at least depending on weather conditions.
        But this thing depends constantly and is critical to the slightest changes in weather conditions, even at 1C, therefore the weather station is on it. If the UAV is even more expensive than this miracle of weapons, it will also destroy the target itself. A simple drone at the same distance will be at the price of a weather balloon in this machine. Say just the grandmother was needed, so they tried to suck in what was at hand. I apologize answered a little in the wrong branch smile
  21. Vasek
    Vasek 28 November 2013 05: 58
    +1
    Pleased with the (very) name - POSITION-2 (like "Position Number One") - even the Bryansk "Krasukha" is not up to the Odessa wits (InMyHumbleOpinion) laughing
  22. VADEL
    VADEL 28 November 2013 07: 02
    0
    Now they will know what is steeper than Privat kidalovo in Moscow Region. wink
  23. ZU-23
    ZU-23 28 November 2013 07: 48
    0
    Poznyak rushing about, denyuzhka already at least in Europe
  24. Druid
    Druid 30 November 2013 19: 01
    0
    Quote: IGS
    it MUST NOT have a landing gear, as well as the crew serving it. Such devices are installed as a radio receiver. It would be interesting to watch your reaction if I tried to sell you, for example, a DVD player the size of your apartment, and to it five more who will live with you, turn on the player and insert discs, and these five so that you they could enjoy their favorite melody, they will have another hour to measure, arrange, turn on before you hear the melody itself. The performance characteristics of this wunderwafe with a ball (it seems that the weather station includes a meteorological probe) is much worse than the "Zoo" where the radar is used for the same purposes.
    You just have no idea about the subject of the topic. This is not to say that the discussed complex is worse than the "Zoo", well, if you only hate everything Ukrainian and, again, simply do not own the subject.
    "Zoo-1" in Soviet times was created by two offices, one of which is in Ukraine and currently produces the complex "Zoo-2" (iskra.zp.ua).

    That is, the Ukrainians have an analogue of the Russian version of "Zoo" a. "Position-2" is a different solution for detecting enemy artillery positions, I repeat, passive (ie, secretive), jam-resistant, and less expensive than complexes such as "Zoo", UAVs, and other vinaigrette in the heads of amateurs.
    To at least understand what is at all, look at the Lightning website video about the modernization of the AZK-7 http://molnia.odessa.ua/
  25. Druid
    Druid 30 November 2013 19: 01
    0
    Quote: IGS
    it MUST NOT have a landing gear, as well as the crew serving it. Such devices are installed as a radio receiver. It would be interesting to watch your reaction if I tried to sell you, for example, a DVD player the size of your apartment, and to it five more who will live with you, turn on the player and insert discs, and these five so that you they could enjoy their favorite melody, they will have another hour to measure, arrange, turn on before you hear the melody itself. The performance characteristics of this wunderwafe with a ball (it seems that the weather station includes a meteorological probe) is much worse than the "Zoo" where the radar is used for the same purposes.
    You just have no idea about the subject of the topic. This is not to say that the discussed complex is worse than the "Zoo", well, if you only hate everything Ukrainian and, again, simply do not own the subject.
    "Zoo-1" in Soviet times was created by two offices, one of which is in Ukraine and currently produces the complex "Zoo-2".

    That is, the Ukrainians have an analogue of the Russian version of "Zoo" a. "Position-2" is a different solution for detecting enemy artillery positions, I repeat, passive (ie, secretive), jam-resistant, and less expensive than complexes such as "Zoo", UAVs, and other vinaigrette in the heads of amateurs.
    To at least understand what is at all, look at the Lightning website video about the modernization of the AZK-7 http://molnia.odessa.ua/