Military Review

Balanced and mobile. Experts see such a future Russian army

96
Within the framework of the international congress “Security and Protection of the Individual, Society and the State” held in Moscow, a discussion was held on the problems and pace of modernization of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. The forum was organized by the Public Chamber, the National Association of Associations of Reserve Officers of the Armed Forces (MEGAPIR), the International Advisory Committee of the organizations of reserve officers and reserve. "MIC" publishes the most striking presentations of participants.


Modernization and rearmament of the army cannot be imagined without fundamental science, its discoveries and breakthroughs that would allow creating weapon on new physical properties, so that it essentially influenced the military organization of the state. But we see that since the creation of nuclear weapons, these breakthroughs and discoveries have not existed.

Has anyone seen a plasma or liquid crystal domestic television, computer, laptop lately? How in the country, which itself does not produce consumer electronics, will the most complex automated combat control systems interface with the global navigation satellite system? If there is no domestic electronic component base and software, it is difficult to expect a quick modernization of the army. After all, rearmament does not mean the mechanical replacement of old equipment with a new one with old TTX.

Balanced and mobile. Experts see such a future Russian army

Why hasn’t 20 more than a year of reforms in the country failed to produce the State program for reforming the Armed Forces, but only the departmental one? With the arrival of each new minister of defense, only corrections were made to the documents, subjective factors were included, but by and large little changed.

The departmental program cannot affect other state institutions, the same fundamental science. For example, a resource tank - 25 years. So, every year we had to update it by about four percent. As of 1991, the Ground Forces had 16 thousand tanks. Four percent of this value is 640 vehicles, that is, so much should have entered the troops annually. And from 1993 to 2000 we received five to seven tanks a year, that is, for 20 years we did not rearm the army, but only lagged behind our western counterparts. Society is also to blame for this. Numerous polls show that only 10-12 percent of Russians are interested in defense issues. The media are also responsible. If they show the tank, then for some reason it must jump. But first of all, he needs to destroy the targets - the further, faster and more accurately, the better, but we are still inferior in the range of defeat to our main competitors. In the passive (active) protection of armored vehicles, we also did not find an antidote to shells with high kinetic energy.

Does the Ministry of Defense have to deal with the electronic industry? This is the business of the state as a whole. When there is no guardianship, there is no progress. As a result, the pace of rearmament has slowed down in recent years, the problems of our defense-industrial complex have become ever more acute, and its ability to produce new types of weapons and military hardware is questionable.

In turn, the Ministry of Defense must specifically distribute duties among the officers. A simple example. Who is responsible for the condition of the Armed Forces? There are commanders, but they are not responsible for the state of the troops, which are subordinated to the commanders of the operational-strategic commands (USC) of military districts. District commanders are subordinate to the Minister of Defense, Chief of the General Staff. The commanders do not have any levers of influence on the situation, including financial ones, they do not participate in the process of creating models of weapons and military equipment, they do not have ordering departments or research organizations that will help to form state defense orders. Now the weapon system is unbalanced to the utmost between the means of destruction and control systems, electronic warfare, the system of intelligence, communications, navigation. In the army, there is an excess of means of destruction, many of which are superior to their Western counterparts. But due to the lack of a unified automated control and reconnaissance system, due to the weakness of GLONASS, their high performance characteristics are decreasing.

The paradox is that today the technical policy is dealt with by people who are not responsible for the condition of the Armed Forces. Optimal may be a body that is in a complex responsible for the management, construction and development, preparation and use of troops. Then the commander will be able to control the full cycle - from calling a young recruiting to the prospects of weapons systems. This is how control is built in the Western armies.

Unfortunately, some of our military leaders perceive the Armed Forces as a set of tanks, armored personnel carriers, airplanes, military units. The bigger, the better. We also used to consider the Ground Forces to be a primitive type, although in one battalion of 30 specialties, the regiment had 140. At the same time, the Ground Forces never had their own research institute and did not conduct systematic research. Maybe that’s why the defense-industrial complex was profitable to supply the army with simple metal-based weapons of destruction, but it was reluctant to take on high-tech complex systems. This approach led to a complete imbalance in weapons systems. Why, for example, for our country with its vast expanses, the number of armed forces is set at one million people? No one can clearly justify, although it would not hurt to compare the ratio of our forces and assets with a potential adversary.

Yuri Bukreev,
Chief of the Main Directorate of the Ground Forces (1998 – 2001), Chairman of the Board of MEGAPIR, Colonel-General



As long as Russia has nuclear weapons, it can be a global arbitrator. But over time, nuclear weapons can lose their relevance. How to be then? Xnumx years we lived in the world. The Armed Forces of the Soviet Union were so powerful that no one on the planet thought about encroaching on our interests. And now more and more often there are statements that Siberia must be given away, the European part should be divided, the North should be abandoned. With the weak development of modern technology, we will not be able to play on an equal footing with developed countries. One of the key questions: whose electronic element base is in our military equipment, whose materials, technologies and machines are used in its manufacture? In any store, Chinese or Western-made tools are sold, but there are few of its own.

In the old days, 5,5 percent of GDP was spent on education and science, now - less than one percent. It is difficult to calculate how many years of the past 20 the best minds have gone abroad, how many academic and applied institutions are closed. Fundamental exploratory and predictive studies are not actually conducted in our country, and the theoretical base is lost. For the USSR, it came as a surprise when the United States announced the creation of a Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI). It was a bluff, but thanks to him the United States accumulated all the promising developments in the field of missile defense, missile attack warning systems, and other areas. Now the Americans are predicting a fifth-generation war — without the physical contact of the troops.

The harmonious development of the Russian Armed Forces should be multivector, based on modern industry and technology. Another direction is philosophy, military doctrine, strategy for the development of society. You can call in the army as many people as you like, but for what values ​​and ideals will soldiers fight and die? Without basic moral, worldview braces, it is impossible for them to explain this.

For a social development strategy to emerge, it is necessary to answer the question: are we renting our territory or not? If not, then we need a strong army, a well-thought-out State armament program, the harmonious development of all types of armed forces, based on the requirements and challenges of the modern world. In the initial period of the Great Patriotic War, we managed to transfer thousands of enterprises over the Urals and retain military production, but now we will not be allowed to do this. Here is a specific example. In accordance with the agreement signed by Mikhail Gorbachev, there are six seismic stations operating in Russia, one of them near Dmitrov. All shipments are controlled by the United States, as the devices allow you to determine even what is being transported in trains.

It seems there are plants - KamAZ, ZIL, GAZ, "Ural", and on the roads are more and more foreign brands, including Chinese ones. But what are we going to fight on? After all, mobility is the most important quality of aircraft. Now the ordering system, technical readiness, has been destroyed, everything has been outsourced. And who in the troops will be engaged in repair? From the experience of military operations, it is known that in the first days of the war, the output of weapons and equipment was 30 – 40 percent. Of these, 75 – 80 percent of weapons and military equipment recovered due to small and medium repairs in field conditions during the day. Now where to take this technique for repair? When you hear promises that in five years we will have all the new weapons, this is hard to believe. People endowed with great powers apparently don’t understand what they are talking about. Outdated weapons and military equipment we have 10 – 15 percent, modern - 35 – 40 percent, almost no advanced weapons.

There is a redistribution of functions in the direction of the information component - space, air, electronic warfare. All this allows us to have information about the intentions of the enemy before the war. But it is necessary to create a single phono-target environment, information space, target designation system, while we are still in place. Consider, as such, there is no such thing as the Main Missile-Artillery Directorate of the Ministry of Defense, which dealt with these issues. In Soviet times, 720 people served there, in 90, 560, now 32. There were 800 people in the Main Tank Office, 28 remained. Similar picture for other specialized departments.

Particularly noteworthy is the situation with personnel in the Armed Forces themselves, who are professionally engaged in armaments and military equipment. Before Anatoly Serdyukov in the army and on navy there were 357 thousand officers. In the course of “bringing to a new look,” they were reduced to 150 thousand, and 200 thousand were fired. Modern high-tech RF Armed Forces have become a set of conventional infantry regiments from the time of the capture of Ochakov. Unfortunately, the concepts of contract army and professional are confused here. The Soviet army was professional, the Russian until 2005, too. But after Serdyukov, it is very difficult to correct the situation. Our choice is small: to show tank biathlon on TV or on the scale of all aircraft to engage in combat training without any window dressing. For this, the army and navy should be the subject of constant concern for the country's leadership.

Anatoly Sitnov,
member of the expert council under the chairman of the military industrial complex under the government of the Russian Federation; chief of armaments of the armed forces of the Russian Federation (1994 – 2000); chairman of the board of directors of CJSC Vladimir Klimov - Motor Sich Engines, colonel general.
Originator:
http://vpk-news.ru/
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  1. Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 27 November 2013 15: 42
    +8
    Putinoids will again call the article decadent and panic. They always unpleasant truth pierces the eyes.laughing
    It seems that there are plants - KamAZ, ZIL, GAZ, Ural, and there are more and more foreign brands on the roads, including Chinese ones. But what are we going to fight on?
    In civilian life the same situation. Recently discussed a similar situation in the fleet. Where are the efforts of the government to stop stagnation inside the country? Become an optimist will not work.
    1. zart_arn
      zart_arn 27 November 2013 16: 00
      26
      Balanced and mobile. Experts see such a future Russian army

      Balanced and mobile. Such - the whole producing Russian economy should be, then the armed forces will correspond to it.
      1. Alex toll
        Alex toll 27 November 2013 16: 32
        12
        I completely agree ! The economic component is generally most important in this aspect - without funds there is neither the composition of technology nor culture, etc., and the funds are strictly taken from the economy and, moreover, not by handouts, but monthly) The whole country strained for this rearmament - all the plants howl, people shocked by the housing and communal services - they decided not to think stupidly, but simply robbed the people and paid in advance - okay do not care - they decided and decided, but until every ruble reaches the treasury it turns into 10 kopecks as the maximum, probably, officials, etc. they dragged it away and ...... most of it, and here the question in the apparatus of the state seems to be enough for the dependents air shocks - there is no culture, there is no idea there is only an account in offshore, but for the country - yes, there it will live)))

        The fish rots from the head .......

        Glory of the Great Russian Empire !
        1. Friend of Russia
          Friend of Russia 27 November 2013 16: 38
          -16 qualifying.
          The troops have an overabundance of weapons of destruction, many of them superior to their Western counterparts.

          laughing laughing laughing
          Russia could not even create a 5th generation aircraft. The T-50 is not such, since the main requirement of the 5th generation is stealth.
          Here is the point of view of the former Lecturer, Department of Aviation Radioelectronic Facilities, Chelyabinsk VVAUSH:

          T-50 is not good... And it was "not available" because:
          - Gondolas
          - Lattices
          - Direct viewing of KND from ON
          - 3 protruding spherical viziers, of which (if standing at 50-5) only one has signs of measures to reduce visibility
          - Sheathing or hoods of engine nacelles without signs even of attempts to reduce their visibility - bare unpainted metal
          - Nozzles of engines with a direct cut
          - Lack of metallization of a lamp
          - It is not known what proportion of RP materials in the glider skin. Campaign - bare metal with small and irresponsible surfaces made of polymers (such as hatches and hoods of the compartments for cleaning the landing gears, hatches of the arms compartments)
          - The power pads that appeared during the tests on various elements of the airframe.

          And try to unsubscribe, that all this does not affect the EPR at all. He was close to stealth.

          Proof: http://forum.militaryparitet.com/viewtopic.php?id=543&p=294
          1. Alex 241
            Alex 241 27 November 2013 16: 53
            0
            “I wrote that the T-50 is not good enough. I can repeat it 1000 times.
            - Gondolas
            - Lattices
            - Direct viewing of KND from ON
            - LDPE in metal
            - 3 protruding spherical viziers, of which (if standing at 50-5) only one has signs of measures to reduce visibility
            - Sheathing or hoods of engine nacelles without signs of even attempts to reduce their visibility - bare unpainted metal
            - Nozzles of engines with a direct cut
            - Lack of metallization of a lamp
            - It is not known what proportion of RP materials in the glider skin. Campaign - bare metal with small and irresponsible surfaces made of polymers (such as hatches and hoods of the compartments for cleaning the landing gears, hatches of the arms compartments)
            - The power pads that appeared during the tests on various elements of the airframe.
            And try to unsubscribe that all this does not affect the EPR at all. Chickens laughingly are a specialist. "You mean that? The fact that LDPE in metal does not suit him speaks of deep knowledge of aviation topics. In our country, too, a former deck pilot taught the Fundamentals of Soviet military legislation and the organization of military economy.
            1. Friend of Russia
              Friend of Russia 27 November 2013 17: 00
              0
              Quote: Alex 241
              Chickens laughingly are a specialist. "Are you talking about this? The fact that he is not satisfied with LDPE in metal speaks of a deep knowledge of aviation.

              I actually Voodoo meant. He agreed with everything except for LDPE in metal.
              About Voodoo (at the very bottom): http://forum.militaryparitet.com/viewtopic.php?id=1570
              1. Alex 241
                Alex 241 27 November 2013 17: 05
                +6
                As for the lantern, there is data on the Internet, coloring - look enamel "hyacinth"
                1. Friend of Russia
                  Friend of Russia 27 November 2013 17: 06
                  -3
                  And everything else ???
                  1. Alex 241
                    Alex 241 27 November 2013 17: 09
                    +1
                    Ask Poghosyan for the keys to the safe.
                    1. Friend of Russia
                      Friend of Russia 27 November 2013 17: 13
                      0
                      Quote: Alex 241
                      Ask Poghosyan for the keys to the safe.

                      Yes you wit. How will KND vanes be hidden? Radar blocker? So it leads to a decrease in speed (opinion of specialists).
                      1. Vadivak
                        Vadivak 27 November 2013 21: 19
                        +2
                        Quote: Friend of Russia
                        Yes you wit. How will KND vanes be hidden? Radar blocker? So it leads to a decrease in speed


                        And S channels in Americans do not lead to a decrease in speed?
          2. Cat
            Cat 27 November 2013 17: 06
            23
            Quote: Friend of Russia
            Russia could not even create a 5th generation aircraft. The T-50 is not such, since the main requirement of the 5th generation is stealth.
            ........
            The T-50 is a netels. And it was "not available" because:
            ....blah blah blah.....
            And try to unsubscribe, that all this does not affect the EPR at all.

            We take, it means, B-2 Spirit, put F-22 and F-35 next to it, and thoughtfully study the resulting landscape. On second thought, we come to the conclusion: neither the F-22, nor the F-35 are not that "under-", they are not "stealth" in any way. This means that there are no such 5th generation fighters in the US Air Force, and they are not expected in the foreseeable future.
            1. Friend of Russia
              Friend of Russia 27 November 2013 17: 08
              -2
              Whose opinion? Internet iksperda?
              1. Russ69
                Russ69 27 November 2013 17: 18
                +7
                Quote: Friend of Russia
                Whose opinion? Internet iksperda?

                Now experts, like dirt .... And they will prove with foam at the mouth that the soul will smile .
                1. Friend of Russia
                  Friend of Russia 27 November 2013 17: 27
                  0
                  Quote: Russ69
                  Now experts, like dirt .... And they will prove with foam at the mouth that the soul will

                  At the militaryparitet forum, a user with the nickname Voodoo has NEVER been found to be incompetent. And on this forum not ypa-potspeots sit. And immediately expose the Internet iksperda.
                  1. avg
                    avg 27 November 2013 18: 16
                    13
                    Russia could not even create a 5th generation aircraft. T-50 is not such

                    I don’t even want to answer.
                    1. Simply for each of your items, ask a question to Yandex and get answers.
                    2. Since when have such fat trolls signed up as friends with Russia?
                    1. Friend of Russia
                      Friend of Russia 27 November 2013 18: 19
                      -6
                      Quote: avg
                      1. Simply for each of your items, ask a question to Yandex and get answers.

                      Answers ura-interest ???
                      Quote: avg
                      2. Since when have such fat trolls signed up as friends with Russia?

                      View my profile.
                      1. avg
                        avg 27 November 2013 18: 30
                        +9
                        Why do I need a profile. Full face on my avatar and recognizable distortion of words speaks to me a lot. negative
                      2. Friend of Russia
                        Friend of Russia 27 November 2013 18: 40
                        -2
                        Quote: avg
                        recognizable distortion of words says a lot.

                        We all learn something ...
                    2. Cherdak
                      Cherdak 27 November 2013 20: 41
                      +1
                      View my profile. bully

                      Hey, bro, look at Paralai - they’re not childishly cut with such people here http://paralay.iboards.ru/viewtopic.php?style=12&f=5&t=2332
                    3. Friend of Russia
                      Friend of Russia 27 November 2013 20: 47
                      0
                      Paralay is a yp-pop-resource. I don’t go there ...
            2. Encoder
              Encoder 28 November 2013 08: 29
              0
              Not this case, but it is generally funny when such Internet experts prove something about one thing, and the pictures show others.
      2. Alekseev
        Alekseev 27 November 2013 17: 47
        +9
        Quote: Friend of Russia
        Russia could not even create a 5th generation aircraft. The T-50 is not such, since the main requirement of the 5th generation is stealth.
        Here is the point of view of the former lecturer of the Department of Aviation Radioelectronic Facilities of the Chelyabinsk VVAUSH:

        Yes, many created the 5th generation aircraft, but Russia could not. request laughing
        This teacher from the "former" at least saw the T-50 up close?
        I probably forgot that "a specialist is like a gumboil, because his completeness is one-sided" laughing
        What kind of "stealth" he is, only those who themselves observed the mark from him on the locator screen can tell plainly.
        And then it broadcasts common truths as if, apart from it, no one knows anything.
        1. Friend of Russia
          Friend of Russia 27 November 2013 17: 59
          0
          Quote: Alekseev
          This teacher from the "former" at least saw the T-50 up close?

          t-50t-50

          t-50_1

          Quote: Alekseev
          What kind of "stealth" he is, only those who themselves observed the mark from him on the locator screen can tell plainly.

          laughing laughing laughing
          F-22s fly with Luneberg lenses which increase real EPR (in peacetime).
      3. Dart2027
        Dart2027 27 November 2013 19: 14
        15
        There are no "stealths" in nature. You can make the plane invisible in a certain range, but it will remain perfectly visible in others.
        1. Friend of Russia
          Friend of Russia 27 November 2013 20: 15
          -2
          Quote: Dart2027
          There are no "stealths" in nature. You can make the plane invisible in a certain range, but it will remain perfectly visible in others.

          Another "expert."

          About meter radars (which supposedly "see" F-22):

          f

          Designed and made correctly stealth aircraft, - his ESR in the meter range increases compared to the centimeter only in:
          0.013: 0.004 =3.25 times (wavelength from 1.825 cm increased to 1.714 m)
          0.013: 0.0021 =6.19 times (wavelength from 3.57 cm increased to 1.714 m)
          As you know, with an increase in the ESR by an nth number of times, the detection range of the aircraft increases only to the fourth root of this number, therefore, in the first case, it will increase only by 1.343 times, in the second - in 1.58 times.
          That is meter radars will not "see" F-22 (point blank).
          (not my calculations, but the former Lecturer, Department of Aviation Radioelectronic Facilities, Chelyabinsk VVAUSH)

          Proof: http://forum.militaryparitet.com/viewtopic.php?id=543&p=295
        2. patsantre
          patsantre 27 November 2013 20: 58
          +6
          In general, it cannot be made invisible at all. Only subtle.
          1. Friend of Russia
            Friend of Russia 27 November 2013 21: 08
            0
            Quote: patsantre
            In general, it cannot be made invisible at all. Only subtle.

            Right! Near "see", in the distance - no.
            The range of modern guided bombs is about 100 km.
            http://rnd.cnews.ru/army/news/line/index_science.shtml?2010/08/26/406504
            gbu
        3. AVV
          AVV 28 November 2013 02: 25
          0
          Nothing is perfect! The main thing is that there are more pluses than minuses. The T-50 is such an aircraft that there are more positive and advanced ones! And the F-35 is not a 5th generation aircraft at all, but a commercial version of a 4+ aircraft !!! And raptors are so expensive that America is sorry for letting them into real conflicts, and suddenly they will bring down what then to say to the people and congress ???
      4. Vadim12
        Vadim12 27 November 2013 19: 27
        +3
        On the serial, all this can be modified, because the engines and glider are tested. And spraying the lamp, do not apply for long
        1. Friend of Russia
          Friend of Russia 27 November 2013 20: 21
          -1
          Quote: Vadim12
          On the serial, all this can be modified, because the engines and glider are tested. And spraying the lamp, do not apply for long

          Whose opinion is this? Another internet iksperda?
          Experts say that you can’t ...
          1. lotar
            lotar 27 November 2013 20: 52
            +2
            As I understand it, you are the next Troll. If you don’t like someone’s evidence, then bring your own, and the evidence base should be expressed not only in the technical specifications, but also in visual images.
            1. Friend of Russia
              Friend of Russia 27 November 2013 20: 55
              0
              Quote: lotar
              As I understand it, you are the next Troll.

              And how did you guess ????

              Quote: lotar
              Moreover, the evidence base should be expressed not only in TTX, but also in visual images.

              Immediately obvious - "specialist." laughing
      5. Gregazov
        Gregazov 27 November 2013 21: 11
        +3
        Cool guys in CHVVAUSH. One teacher replaces a whole research and testing center, and tests are carried out without a full-scale sample, and according to photographs.
        1. Friend of Russia
          Friend of Russia 27 November 2013 21: 15
          0
          Can you argue disprovedly?
      6. Onyx
        Onyx 27 November 2013 21: 29
        +3
        Quote: Friend of Russia
        Russia could not even create a 5th generation aircraft. The T-50 is not such, since the main requirement of the 5th generation is stealth.

        The main requirement of whom? Americans? If so, then where does the T-50? Even irrespective of the T-50, we can say that Russia has its own requirements for the characteristics of aircraft. There are no universal mandatory requirements for all fifth-generation fighters.
        1. Encoder
          Encoder 28 November 2013 08: 45
          +1
          There is one mandatory requirement is to effectively shoot down enemy aircraft. Checked hard.
    2. timer
      timer 27 November 2013 23: 59
      +1
      Firstly, the article is interesting and essentially a veran. Although I read about 5 such articles on the site at least.
      Secondly, I agree and disagree with the comments. In what I agree 100%, the fish rots from the head. What I do not agree with 100%, but only 50 that the economic component is as important as possible. It’s important and ideological. Maybe even more than economic. The people look like a blindfolded man. Where they are going, why and why they don’t know! The soldier doesn’t know who to protect and who to die for if he comes to Motherland or the bureaucrat of a thief or an oligarch with looted goods! The liberals and the shit-democrats suggest to the young generation that they take it all out, take everything from life with a bottle of vodka or beer than to study the national roots, your culture, and the customs of your ancestors! This is the ideology of the present day.
      And as regards the technical component of the army, the current model of the banana-raw materials appendage, which was built by liberals and shit, puts an end to the development of the post-industrial economy (knowledge economy).
      I’ve read the forecast for the development of the Ministry of Economic Development of Russia - it’s clearly indicated that the raw material orientation of the economy will be preserved until at least 2030. I see only the only way — IT IS NECESSARY TO BREAK THE CURRENT POWER SYSTEM IN THE COUNTRY AND THE ECONOMIC MODEL OF ECONOMY!
      To whom my koment is interesting write, let’s do something other than idle talk on the site, do something useful. My mailbox ([email protected])
  2. Walker1975
    Walker1975 27 November 2013 16: 37
    +3
    It remains only to answer the question: how will the economy become mobile and balanced with such a level of corruption and the growth of billionaires?
    1. Encoder
      Encoder 28 November 2013 08: 51
      0
      The fact that corruption in the West looks different does not mean that it does not exist. And there are many billionaires there, and poverty is no better. All is well only if you study countries on tourist packages.
  3. Gluxar_
    Gluxar_ 27 November 2013 17: 06
    19
    Quote: zart_arn
    Balanced and mobile. Such - the whole producing Russian economy should be, then the armed forces will correspond to it.

    The army should serve the people, not the people serve the army. Russia has many advanced technologies. The author in this matter is an amateur or a liar. Russia is not going to conquer Europe and there is no need to maintain 20 tanks that will not go anywhere because they are not serviced or a resource is depleted. To protect against any power, we have a strategic nuclear forces, the most advanced on the planet and they will remain such for at least half a century, unlike the situation of our sworn friends.
    Moreover, new developments exist and are being implemented. It's just that in Russia it is not customary to make a show out of this as in the United States. There are also hypersonic weapons and laser weapons, but one does not need to give them the meaning of "wunderwafe", it is much better to have a real army capable of performing any task anywhere in the world. It is in this direction that the reform is going, the army is real and strong, and not a virtual super army that will surpass the quantitative indicators of the USSR.
    As for industry, here everything is not bad. For many positions, we are ahead of the rest. The author is an amateur and does not know the difference between Chinese plasma and military technology. By his analogy, the USA and Europe are in full priest, since they do not produce as many plasma panels or personal computers as China. In Russia, there is one of the best elemental bases, just for military technology, but not for the consumer market and it is not appropriate to compare these industries. You can not put civilian fees on military equipment, not the level of stability and reliability.
    In general, you should not pay attention to such highs, which are done not on the basis of real facts, but on tugging at the ears of problematic pain points of our industry.

    By the way, look at who is writing the article. Representative of Motor Sich. Ukrainians often want to push through the ideas of "all-pro-Russia" and convince our society of the need to purchase products from Ukrainian military-industrial complex companies. So you can see where the trail of such customized publications comes from.
    1. patsantre
      patsantre 27 November 2013 21: 04
      -1
      Quote: Gluxar_
      Russia has many advanced technologies.

      We emitted even more of them, or hopelessly lagged behind.
      Quote: Gluxar_
      Moreover, new developments exist and are being implemented. It's just that in Russia it is not customary to make a show out of this as in the United States. There are also hypersonic and laser weapons, but one does not need to attach the meaning of "wunderwafe" to them, it is much better to have a real army capable of performing any task anywhere in the world.

      There is no weapon. There are only prototypes. And the show and we have much to do, did not watch military secret and striking force?
      Quote: Gluxar_
      In many positions, we are ahead of the rest.

      By what many? Much more positions, where we are specifically behind.
      Quote: Gluxar_
      In general, you should not pay attention to such highs, which are done not on the basis of real facts, but on tugging at the ears of problematic pain points of our industry.

      Well, of course. Maybe there is no successive personnel problem, is there no problem with new machines and equipment? Maybe there is no corruption?
      1. Gluxar_
        Gluxar_ 27 November 2013 21: 32
        +2
        Quote: patsantre
        We emitted even more of them, or hopelessly lagged behind.

        What is a gay position? We pissed off a lot. But we prosrali 40% of our technology, and the United States prosrali 98% of its technology. So who benefits? What kind of State Department logic, trolls change notes.
        Quote: patsantre
        There is no weapon. There are only prototypes. And the show and we have much to do, did not watch military secret and striking force?

        You do not have. And we have everything in our country. At secret Siberian bases, where your little arms will never reach.
        Quote: patsantre
        By what many? Much more positions, where we are specifically behind.

        What are the positions we are lagging behind. I will name the positions in which we are not the first places. Nuclear weapons, astronautics, rocket technology, aviation and helicopter engineering, tank building, submarines and missile carriers.
        Quote: patsantre
        Well, of course. Maybe there is no successive personnel problem, is there no problem with new machines and equipment? Maybe there is no corruption?

        No problem. There are some difficulties that arose in the 90s, but they are gradually being corrected.
        1. rsnv
          rsnv 27 November 2013 21: 53
          0
          Quote: Gluxar_
          But we prosrali 40% of our technology, and the United States prosrali 98% of its technology. So who benefits? What kind of State Department logic, trolls change notes.

          He himself calculated the interest, or wrote it off from the edrosovsky abstract?

          Quote: Gluxar_
          And we have everything in our country. At secret Siberian bases, where your little arms will never reach.

          Is everything everything, just like in Greece? Do you have flying saucers there?

          Quote: Gluxar_
          I will name the positions in which we are not the first places. Nuclear weapons, astronautics, rocket technology, aviation and helicopter engineering, tank building, submarines and missile carriers.

          This statement is strong. Even the great Vladimir Vladimirovich himself did not say such a thing, apparently modest.

          Quote: Gluxar_
          No problem

          No problem, pricked and hello.

          Quote: Gluxar_
          There are some difficulties that arose in the 90s, but they are gradually being corrected.

          Difficulties are gradually corrected, gradually corrected, gradually corrected ... stuck. And so for 14 years.
          1. Encoder
            Encoder 28 November 2013 09: 03
            0
            Are you stuck? Aelo ate lo.
            Why do you think only 14 years, in my opinion more than 30 is all. And, of course, earlier YOURs were at the feeder, but now the snout does not reach.
          2. Gluxar_
            Gluxar_ 28 November 2013 18: 46
            -1
            Quote: rsnv
            He himself calculated the interest, or wrote it off from the edrosovsky abstract?

            From the State Department broshurochki.
            Quote: rsnv
            Is everything everything, just like in Greece? Do you have flying saucers there?

            We have all. And people like you can howl with envy at the bucket.
            Quote: rsnv
            This statement is strong. Even the great Vladimir Vladimirovich himself did not say such a thing, apparently modest.

            I look at you edrosovtsy and some direct GDP fetish what you portraits in the anus or something they put in the State Department so that you do not forget to bark at whom?
            Quote: rsnv
            No problem, pricked and hello.

            Great solutions for you. Continue in the same spirit.
            Quote: rsnv
            Difficulties are gradually corrected, gradually corrected, gradually corrected ... stuck. And so for 14 years.

            This is called a process. Everything changes everything flows. Only at such bums like you nothing changes. pumped at a dose and sits satisfied, crap on people. Abomination.
        2. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 27 November 2013 22: 35
          +3
          Quote: Gluxar_
          The USA prosralized 98% of its technology.

          For all my dislike of the United States, explain why they pissed off.
          Quote: Gluxar_
          There are some difficulties that arose in the 90s, but they are gradually being corrected.

          Too slow. At this rate, we will lag behind even more. We are now in the role of the watchman of a drug addict in the zoo - "and the turtle rushed so hard ..."
          1. Gluxar_
            Gluxar_ 28 November 2013 18: 52
            0
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            For all my dislike of the United States, explain why they pissed off.

            This is the answer from the category of allegations that it doesn’t matter what is done in Russia, the main thing is that something was SPRAYED. With the same logic, I can say that the whole world EVERYTHING shit. This is a statement of stupid trolls that erode public debate and divert the essence of the conversation to the side. That is, they are engaged in sabotage. You should not talk seriously with such individuals, you just need to identify them and take them aside.
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Too slow. At this rate, we will lag behind even more. We are now in the role of the watchman of a drug addict in the zoo - "and the turtle rushed so hard ..."

            What is too slow? Where are the real criteria for the effectiveness of program implementation? There are problems and always will be. Give examples of our lagging behind the main competitors. Check the dynamics of the development of the armed forces of our sworn friends and you will see that the capabilities of Russia have grown at times in relation to their opponents. This is the real result.
            If you have any facts and suggestions, then voice them. just so unfoundedly accuse our country of "insolvency", I freely bark a wild dog. only annoying.
        3. patsantre
          patsantre 28 November 2013 00: 53
          0
          Quote: Gluxar_
          What is a gay position? We pissed off a lot. But we prosrali 40% of our technology, and the United States prosrali 98% of its technology. So who benefits? What kind of State Department logic, trolls change notes.

          Quote: Gluxar_
          You do not have. And we have everything in our country. At secret Siberian bases, where your little arms will never reach.


          I don’t even want to answer this nonsense. Just call an ambulance.
          Quote: Gluxar_
          Nuclear weapon,

          parity with the USA
          Quote: Gluxar_
          cosmonautics

          A moot point: The fact that we launch more rockets into space does not make us leaders. Amers have an incomparably larger and more efficient satellite constellation. All new planets, systems, stars are discovered by NASA. Not us.

          Quote: Gluxar_
          rocket technology

          It should be more specific, but I will not argue.
          Quote: Gluxar_
          aviation and helicopter industry

          No.
          Quote: Gluxar_
          tank building

          If you take into account the T-95 and Armata, which actually do not, then yes.

          Quote: Gluxar_
          submarines

          It’s ridiculous. The VNEU, which the Swedes and Germans have long had, will not get stuck on diesel-electric submarines. Amers of the 4th generation have adopted nuclear submarines more than 15 years ago, they are still chasing us in trials. noise and some other parameters, without troubles.
          Quote: Gluxar_
          missile carriers.

          Something comparing the performance characteristics of Ohio and Borea, it does not seem so to me.

          I don’t even have to bring the areas in which we are behind, you have outplayed yourself in your own field.
          Aircraft carriers, landing ships, any large displacement ships and associated technologies, UAVs, satellites, any electronics, control and communications systems, aircraft engines, stealth technologies.

          In general, we started talking about technology, and you started about industry. I don’t know to what extent you have brainwashed and at what stage of the disease to blab out such nonsense. We have been building Ash for 20 years, they can’t finish the frigate for the 9th year, fighters can hardly 25 pieces a year are being cut out for their army. It's a shame, I’m even ashamed to speak.
          1. Encoder
            Encoder 28 November 2013 09: 07
            0
            Here in the case, and then some kind of clicks
            1. Gluxar_
              Gluxar_ 28 November 2013 19: 36
              -2
              Well, a lot of things may seem to you, but your subjective feelings are not real facts.
              Quote: patsantre
              I don’t even have to bring the areas in which we are behind, you have outplayed yourself in your own field.
              Aircraft carriers, landing ships, any large displacement ships and associated technologies, UAVs, satellites, any electronics, control and communications systems, aircraft engines, stealth technologies.

              In general, we started talking about technology, and you started about industry. I don’t know to what extent you have brainwashed and at what stage of the disease to blab out such nonsense. We have been building Ash for 20 years, they can’t finish the frigate for the 9th year, fighters can hardly 25 pieces a year are being cut out for their army. It's a shame, I’m even ashamed to speak.
              Well, if you are ashamed, then be ashamed. Usually people are ashamed of their vices.
              You outplayed yourself in your imagination. Lagging on some segments is possible. Fools are new if you compare thick with hard. The topic of conversation is the modern army. That is, meeting the modern requirements of sculpting aircraft carriers, it’s juggling and pulling ears. Let's look at the real purpose of the army - to ensure the security of the people and the state. Security, including economic. The USA today has up to 11 AUGs, six of which cannot even go to sea. The biggest threat to US security is from the mutated and gluttonous military. Expenditures on the US Army exceed $ 550 billion, and NATO in general, more than $ 850 billion. Russia about 70 billion Nevertheless, there is military parity. At least, NATo cannot indicate something to Russia, and on all external venues Russia speaks on equal terms with its sworn friends. And in the case of BV and replayed on the head.
              Hence a simple conclusion: if NATO spends 850 billion and does not achieve its goals, and Russia spends 70 billion and reaches, then which of us chose the wrong side? That is, the Russian army is 12 times more effective than the western one for every dollar.
              So go re-read your manuals. This is not about quantity, but about quality and compliance with the real requirements and interests of the state.
              1. patsantre
                patsantre 28 November 2013 22: 33
                +1
                This parity is achieved only at the expense of nuclear weapons. And nobody will risk starting a war with conventional weapons, because it can turn into a nuclear one. Or it may not outgrow. Then we have no chance. But no one will take such a risk.
                And if you look at the situation from the other side? NATO and the United States can tell a lot of things to whom, and if they do not like the answer, they can be razed to the ground. Russia cannot do this. Different tasks. Different armies. You can’t compare them to a friend. but there is no point in opposing it while there is nuclear weapons. Without it, we could have been razed to the ground in the same way. The truth would be very expensive for them.
          2. Gluxar_
            Gluxar_ 28 November 2013 19: 36
            -2
            Quote: patsantre
            parity with the USA

            Parity in numbers. The United States has not upgraded its strategic nuclear forces for over 30 years. They do not have new generation missiles. The readiness of what is there raises doubts in the United States itself. The United States is at least 20 years behind the Russian Federation on this issue, and therefore wants to compensate for its lag in missile defense and agree on "disarmament." Russia has already adopted several fundamentally new carriers of the new generation.
            Quote: patsantre
            A moot point: The fact that we launch more rockets into space does not make us leaders. Amers have an incomparably larger and more efficient satellite constellation. All new planets, systems, stars are discovered by NASA. Not us.

            What is the logic of double standards? The fact that China produces more goods than the Russian Federation does not make its economy more Russian. The fact that Japan produces more high-tech household products does not make its economy a high-tech ... Of course it does. Russia is developing all segments of the space program and occupies a leading position in each. The United States had a satellite constellation, and Russia re-created it and today Glonass already has and is working. The Angara family is superior in economic efficiency to all projects in the West and in the East. A nuclear power plant and a heavy rocket launcher are being developed. Which countries are close enough to us and with which projects?
            Quote: patsantre
            No.

            Yes. Is this your adult conversation? I will give one example. The United States is buying Russian helicopters. The dynamics of the development of the aircraft industry and helicopter industry of the Russian Federation exceeds the dynamics in all Western countries, production capacities are reduced there, and are growing in Russia.
            Quote: patsantre
            If you take into account the T-95 and Armata, which actually do not, then yes.

            Even without these promising projects, today the T-90 is the best tank in the world. and no one in the world has proven otherwise. Russian tanks are the most popular and most warring in the world. As well as the best-selling in the world. And this is a real fact, not an allegation.
            Quote: patsantre
            It’s ridiculous. The VNEU, which the Swedes and Germans have long had, will not get stuck on diesel-electric submarines. Amers of the 4th generation have adopted nuclear submarines more than 15 years ago, they are still chasing us in trials. noise and some other parameters, without troubles.

            Russia is one of the leading countries in all segments of the construction of the submarine fleet. Only the Russian Federation has strategic missile carriers of a new generation. The United States leased Swedish submarines from VNEU, but they themselves did not. Russia did.
            Quote: patsantre
            Something comparing the performance characteristics of Ohio and Borea, it does not seem so to me.
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 28 November 2013 20: 21
              +1
              To be honest, I doubt the productivity of the conversation, due to your bias. Just do not again take the appeal to you as rudeness.
              Quote: Gluxar_
              The fact that China produces more goods than the Russian Federation does not make its economy more Russian.

              Where do you live? Compare the GDP of China and Russia, the gross product is used to evaluate the productivity of the economy.
              Quote: Gluxar_
              Even without these promising projects, today the T-90 is the best tank in the world. and no one in the world has proved this to the other.
              I am a patriot of my country, and I think the T 90 is the best today, but now is the evening of today, tomorrow, what will we boast about? Again developments of the era of the USSR?
              Quote: Gluxar_
              The United States is buying Russian helicopters.

              They are buying SOVIET helicopters. There Russian-on the fingers count. Not my opinion, the opinion of helicopter pilots from the Syzran training. MI 28 and K 52 are called obsolete. True Apache is also called gamma. laughing
              Quote: Gluxar_
              Only the Russian Federation has strategic missile carriers of a new generation.

              Nonsense. The pendos have them too. And looking at the pace with which China is developing, they will soon appear. And it’s eternal to say that Chinese quality is gamble, stupid, about the Japs in the 60s they also said that, but in the end, what? And our army also uses their components. The topic with launch vehicles is not relevant at all, it’s just beneficial for them to launch their satellites with our missiles, the price is cheaper, and again this is Soviet developments. We are just stupidly spending the inheritance of the USSR.
              P.S. I do not see Russia's future prospects with GDP, but on the political horizon of the leaders I do not observe him. The current opposition in the person of Navalny, Kudrin and Udaltsov, deserves nothing but a loop. Real contenders for the role of leader such as Kvachkov and Khabarov are simply being planted. hi
            2. patsantre
              patsantre 28 November 2013 22: 46
              +2
              Quote: Gluxar_
              Parity in numbers. The United States has not upgraded its strategic nuclear forces for over 30 years. They do not have new generation missiles. The readiness of what is there raises doubts in the United States itself. The United States is at least 20 years behind the Russian Federation on this issue, and therefore wants to compensate for its lag in missile defense and agree on "disarmament." Russia has already adopted several fundamentally new carriers of the new generation.


              In this matter, we have come a long way ahead, I don’t argue. But amers also have strengths. They have a greater operational voltage coefficient of the SSBN and actually more powerful RPKS than ours. Yes, and the missile defense you mentioned.

              Quote: Gluxar_
              Yes. Is this your adult conversation? I will give one example. The United States is buying Russian helicopters. The dynamics of the development of the aircraft industry and helicopter industry of the Russian Federation exceeds the dynamics in all Western countries, production capacities are reduced there, and are growing in Russia.

              As far as I remember, they didn’t buy them for themselves. And we bought our electronics for fighters abroad, which is much more serious. Nevertheless, this is not an argument.
              Look at the dynamics? Look at how much F-35 is currently on the assembly lines, and how much they will be assembled annually (don’t bother calculating, I’ll do it for you - about 150 units a year), production capacities are simply not comparable, and what kind of reduction is it, I do not understand.
              I can also give examples. Their 5th generation fighter is 15 years ahead of ours. There’s no point even talking about what's going on in the area of ​​UAVs. Well, I propose to familiarize yourself with the situation with air tankers and AWACS on our own. This is much more significant than a couple of dozen bought we have a Mi-17.

              Quote: Gluxar_
              Even without these promising projects, today the T-90 is the best tank in the world. and no one in the world has proven otherwise. Russian tanks are the most popular and most warring in the world. As well as the best-selling in the world. And this is a real fact, not an allegation.

              And who proved that he is the best in the world? What is this fact based on? How is this tank compared, for example, to a merkava? To start an argument is pointless, it’s like to beat your head against a wall.
              Quote: Gluxar_
              Russia is one of the leading countries in all segments of the construction of the submarine fleet. Only the Russian Federation has strategic missile carriers of a new generation. The United States leased Swedish submarines from VNEU, but they themselves did not. Russia did.

              Russia hasn’t done anything yet. As long as there are no working serial copies, it’s better not to stutter about it. And the US NPLs are not needed at all, therefore they didn’t.
            3. rsnv
              rsnv 29 November 2013 00: 38
              +1
              Quote: Gluxar_
              The dynamics of the development of the aircraft industry and helicopter industry of the Russian Federation exceeds the dynamics in all Western countries, production capacities are reduced there, and are growing in Russia.

              In 2012, Russia built 290 helicopters, of which 252 are Mi and 38 are Ka. In the USSR, 485 Mi-brand helicopters were produced (on average) per year (excluding MI-2, produced in Poland), we will modestly keep silent about the Ka helicopters ... All the helicopter factories of the USSR were located on the territory of the RSFSR, i.e. ... on the territory of the present-day RF.

              Quote: Gluxar_
              Russian tanks are the most popular and most warring in the world.

              No matter how. These are the tanks developed and produced in the USSR that are the most warring in the world. T-90 has not fought anywhere. And at the expense of the greatest demand for tanks produced in the Russian Federation, prove that they are the most popular, and in demand for real money, and not on credit, which then (as usual) will be forgiven to customers.

              Quote: Gluxar_
              Russia is one of the leading countries in all segments of the construction of the submarine fleet. Only the Russian Federation has strategic missile carriers of a new generation.

              Strongly said. Immediately visible bird of great flight. Tell me when on combat duty these SSBNs will stand up.
    2. timer
      timer 28 November 2013 00: 13
      +3
      It is clear that the new realities dictate the new face of the sun. And the matter is not in quantity. The essence of the article is that there is a clear bias in the production of armaments, attention is not paid to a number of development issues of the Armed Forces, which indicates the ill-conceived and short-sightedness of the state program. Taxpayer money, which we are, should be spent efficiently! But the root of the problem is not in technology, and in ideology and a national idea (its absence). The people look like a blindfolded man. Where they are going, why and why they don’t know! A soldier doesn’t know who to protect and who to die for if he has to - Motherland or the bureaucrat of a thief or an oligarch with looted goods! To the younger generation, liberalists and shit-democrats offer to tear yourself out completely, take everything from life with a bottle of vodka or beer than to study the national roots, your culture, and the customs of your ancestors! Here is the ideology of the day. I see only one way-it is NECESSARY to BREAK THE CURRENT SYSTEM OF POWER IN THE COUNTRY AND THE ECONOMIC MODEL OF ECONOMY!
      To whom my koment is interesting write, let’s do something other than idle talk on the site, do something useful. My mailbox ([email protected])
      1. Encoder
        Encoder 28 November 2013 09: 09
        -1
        It's a pity I liked you, but you start repeating yourself like a troll or as a timer ... no troll anyway.
      2. Gluxar_
        Gluxar_ 28 November 2013 19: 37
        -3
        Quote: timer
        Here in the case, and then some kind of clicks
        What is the case here? The usual all-polymers and typical vyser gosdepovskoy propaganda.
  4. Cherdak
    Cherdak 27 November 2013 20: 58
    +1
    Quote: zart_arn
    Balanced and mobile.


    How is it or is it cooler?
  5. timer
    timer 27 November 2013 21: 00
    +4
    Firstly, the opinions of the experts cited in the article are true in essence. I would like to get into this discussion.
    Secondly, the future technical component of the Armed Forces is inconceivable without the development of the post-industrial economy of Russia! I believe that the core of this economy should be our military-industrial complex in general, and in the private, high-tech industries (space, aviation, shipbuilding, missile defense, radio electronics). industries to create scientific and industrial consortia, where to fasten scientific and higher schools, technical schools and vocational schools. This is in brief.
    Thirdly, I want to once again focus the attention of all members of the forum, the current model of the economy, which was built by liberals and crap, is a model of a "banana-raw" appendage. It will lead Russia to collapse. As we see. Besides the fuel and energy complex, the rest of the industry is destroyed or is being destroyed.
    And the last, second side of the Armed Forces is goal-setting and ideology. The concepts of protecting the Motherland, being a nationalist, champion of national roots and culture, spit on the liberal media. The people look like a blind person, where they are going, why, for what purpose they don’t know. Therefore, indifference and apathy reigns in the masses. Then there is an active installation - take everything from life, come off to the full with a bottle of vodka or beer. Be a consumer slave.
    There is no national idea and ideology. For whom a soldier must die for the bureaucrat of a thief, an oligarch with looted goods, or for his motherland. To whom my koment is interesting write, we will begin correspondence (my box [email protected]).
  6. timer
    timer 28 November 2013 00: 00
    0
    Firstly, the article is interesting and essentially a veran. Although I read about 5 such articles on the site at least.
    Secondly, I agree and disagree with the comments. In what I agree 100%, the fish rots from the head. What I do not agree with 100%, but only 50 that the economic component is as important as possible. It’s important and ideological. Maybe even more than economic. The people look like a blindfolded man. Where they are going, why and why they don’t know! The soldier doesn’t know who to protect and who to die for if he comes to Motherland or the bureaucrat of a thief or an oligarch with looted goods! The liberals and the shit-democrats suggest to the young generation that they take it all out, take everything from life with a bottle of vodka or beer than to study the national roots, your culture, and the customs of your ancestors! This is the ideology of the present day.
    And as regards the technical component of the army, the current model of the banana-raw materials appendage, which was built by liberals and shit, puts an end to the development of the post-industrial economy (knowledge economy).
    I’ve read the forecast for the development of the Ministry of Economic Development of Russia - it’s clearly indicated that the raw material orientation of the economy will be preserved until at least 2030. I see only the only way — IT IS NECESSARY TO BREAK THE CURRENT POWER SYSTEM IN THE COUNTRY AND THE ECONOMIC MODEL OF ECONOMY!
    To whom my koment is interesting write, let’s do something other than idle talk on the site, do something useful. My mailbox ([email protected])
  • Gluxar_
    Gluxar_ 27 November 2013 16: 53
    +5
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Putinoids will again call the article decadent and panic. They always unpleasant truth pierces the eyes.
    It seems that there are plants - KamAZ, ZIL, GAZ, Ural, and there are more and more foreign brands on the roads, including Chinese ones. But what are we going to fight on? In civilian life the same situation. Recently discussed a similar situation in the fleet. Where are the efforts of the government to stop stagnation inside the country? Become an optimist will not work.

    Another vyser all-compassionate. Most likely the article is aimed at modern adolescents who have not seen anything in life. The purpose of this informational impact is to distort the thinking of the new generation and to plant in their minds grains of dislike of their country and its authorities.
    Not everyone knows that the "super Soviet" army could not assemble a regiment of trained and equipped soldiers since 93. I served in 2001 and I remember how everything was there. Just went the first changes in the army and talk about a "new look" and the reduction of service to 1 year. So I know what the army was and what it is today.
    So the author is in many ways a liar and a provocateur. He compares the mythical Soviet army of the 91st model with the modern Russian one. Deliberately omits the fact that 16 tanks were largely scrap for storage, not completed to combat readiness. He does not take into account that it was such a huge army that destroyed the country's economy. He does not understand the process of improving technology, when one multipurpose aircraft replaces several others. The author compares the number of armies, adding 16 tanks to the power of the "old" Russian army, 10 of which are junk T-0000, T-55, T-62 and other samples, which are not even on the move.
    In general, there are plenty of such earplugs in our information space. Drive them to the neck and minus.
    1. Moore
      Moore 27 November 2013 17: 52
      +4
      Well, let’s say, I agree about the "all-perverted".
      But, sorry, muah, what kind of "super-Soviet" army could have been in 1993? Is that post-Soviet, in the worst sense of the word.
      And why compare thick with warm?
      1. Gluxar_
        Gluxar_ 27 November 2013 19: 50
        0
        Quote: Moore
        Well, let’s say, I agree about the "all-perverted".
        But, sorry, muah, what kind of "super-Soviet" army could have been in 1993? Is that post-Soviet, in the worst sense of the word.
        And why compare thick with warm?

        That's what I'm talking about. In such matters, everything is much simpler. You put a minus and everything is clear. It is sad that every year the resource slides to the site under information wrecking. After all, young people who do not remember what happened in the 90s honor and draw the wrong conclusions about modern Russia.
  • bragin
    bragin 27 November 2013 16: 54
    +4
    What does "Putinoids" mean? These are neither Zyuganoids, nor Zhirinoids, nor Mironoids? WHO? Alternative???
    1. old rocket man
      old rocket man 28 November 2013 01: 29
      +2
      Quote: bragin
      What does "Putinoids" mean? These are neither Zyuganoids, nor Zhirinoids, nor Mironoids? WHO? Alternative???

      And he probably wants Chubaisoids, navaloidov and prokhoroidov with hakamadoykoy laughing, only here I didn’t make out the milks laughing
      1. Encoder
        Encoder 28 November 2013 09: 16
        -1
        Ingvaroidov he wants 72 pieces.
    2. Ivan Petrovich
      Ivan Petrovich 28 November 2013 09: 14
      -2
      faithful Stalinists!
  • seller trucks
    seller trucks 27 November 2013 17: 02
    +5
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    It seems that there are plants - KamAZ, ZIL, GAZ, Ural, and there are more and more foreign brands on the roads, including Chinese ones. But what are we going to fight on?


    you just don’t have to interfere with everything in a heap, and even though absolutely not owning the issue.

    ZiL, it can be considered no longer, not at all, this is Luzhkov's "merit", and for the army he has not done anything since the beginning of 2000, and if he did something, then the frank G.
    Kamaz, now produces as many cars as it did, it did not produce in the Soviet Union in 2012 if you count and car kits (without ICE and gearbox) more than 50 thousand. In addition, to date, Kamaz and Gas are barriers to Chinese cars, a close competitor is only one Shanksi factory, but it is also essentially a one-time car, because there is no single service base and spare parts catalogs. And the author was clearly cunning, meaning most likely passenger cars. Now about foreign medium and heavy commercial vehicles

    here is the article: http://www.ati.su/Media/Article.aspx?HeadingID=7&ID=2411

    no one really puffs us in the back, but as for foreign cars of main tractors and dump trucks, they are usually 35-40% more expensive than domestic ones, though it's an order of magnitude better, but I think it's a matter of time
    1. rsnv
      rsnv 27 November 2013 17: 48
      +7
      Quote: seller trucks
      Kamaz, now produces as many cars as it did, it did not produce under the USSR in 2012, if you count car kits (without ICE and gearbox) more than 50 thousand.


      You are mistaken or intentionally lying.
      The first KamAZ car left the main assembly line on February 16, 1976.
      October 1977 - KAMAZ completed its first annual plan ahead of schedule, producing 15000 vehicles. By the end of December, there were already 22 thousand of them.
      August 1978 - a 50th truck was manufactured.
      June 1979 - a truck with the number 100000 got off the main conveyor.
      KAMAZ production growth is breaking world records and is unprecedented for the USSR.
      April 1980 - the 150th heavy truck was launched.
      In 1988, the 1 millionth car left the main assembly line of the automobile plant from the beginning of production.
      (source: http://www.kamaz.ru/ru/company/)
      In total, if we average (excluding the distribution by years) the output of KAMAZ cars produced from February 1976 to May 1988, we will get 83 thousand cars per year, which is much more than the number of trucks that KAMAZ produces now. In the mid 80s
      KAMAZ produced 100000 vehicles per year, i.e. twice more than in the "record" 2012.
    2. Encoder
      Encoder 28 November 2013 09: 23
      0
      My friend has been making money on a gazelle for 25 years already, so he says - "I change gazelles in 2 years and always use a new one, but if I buy a foreign car, I will have to drive for 5-6 years, and if it happens that I'll be there right away"
  • SAG
    SAG 27 November 2013 17: 04
    13
    Have you been in the army for a long time? and were there at all? all units and subdivisions are 99% equipped specifically with KamAZ and Ural. Replacement with new equipment is carried out by the same KamAZs and Urals, only by more powerful models with a reinforced chassis. And I advise you to whine for the most part in a pillow, anti-Putininoid citizen ...
  • Generalissimus
    Generalissimus 27 November 2013 17: 34
    +7
    An article in which there is no, even elementary analysis of industries, is a measure for you? Who does not agree with the article - is that putinoid?
    By this logic, you can be called a bulkhead, is not it? Or will it be praise for you?
    In vain you are so.

    As it were, the whole article can be reduced to several suggestions:
    * without the development of industry and modernization of production, economic growth is impossible
    * without a developed industry and a strong economy, the modernization of the armed forces is impossible
    * without ideology and a fair social order it is impossible ...
    --- and so on.

    In sum - banal truths that were not worth a separate article, claiming some kind of analytical information. And what is there to discuss?
    Even more so, as a commentator, the use of such expressions as "putinoids" and the like does not paint you. At a minimum, opposition implies belonging to the opposite camp, which has earned even less respect in society - a gang of white-tapeworms, talkers and the same corrupt officials, but already in the past, and dreaming of becoming them again in the future.
    Moreover, such terms are commonly used among direct ill-wishers and outright enemies of Russia, all sorts of representatives of the countries of the limitrophes, exhausted in their hatred of Russia and entrenched in the Russian media in the form of active components of "soft power".

    Constructive conversation, including in the discussion of such articles, requires at least a restrained expression of one’s thoughts. Otherwise, it's just trolling, worthy of only Rambler, Newspaper or Tape.

    If we return to the content of the article, it is similar to a recent article about the HEU-KNOW deal: - we will all die.
    Nadergans are a bunch of certain facts, both real and completely unfounded, both systemic and absolutely private, and based on them a certain analysis-forecast is made.

    For some reason, it is forgotten to mention that for the modernization of production you need not only desire, albeit burning, but also means, and time, and personnel. If all this state began to pay attention only in the last 3-4 years, can we expect impressive results now? Obviously not.

    I am not going to challenge the thesis that Russia has colossal problems. This is corruption, and a weakened, sometimes just destroyed economy, and personnel shortage, and much more. I just want to remind you that during the collapse of the USSR, Russia lost everything in many critical sectors in general, when both production, personnel, and design bureaus remained outside the "border." And I would also like to remind you that the reasons for all these troubles are not only in the actions of the working government and Putin, but also in the actions of his predecessors, who created all the main prerequisites for both the existing problems and the paradigm of the country's development as a whole, together with all its inherent fundamental foundations. So what to ask of Putin? Need for a Revolution?

    The article is not worth a discussion. Its only meaning is the apologetics of liberal mrias regarding Russia. Enough to read Kasparov.ru - there is plenty of it.
    Systematically change something and see the results of the changes - it will take another 10-15 years.

    And if the neoliberal approach is closer to you than the "putinoid" conservative liberalism, then I am afraid to disappoint you - if you delve into the ideas of Mr. Kudrin, or the ideas of the more marginal, but more popular in a certain environment, Navalny, Nemtsov and others like them, then they are openly against and the allocation of such large financial resources both for the armed forces and for the modernization of the defense industry, and, by the way, against increasing funding for the same science and education. Only in words for their development, but in deeds - from the content of their liberal ideas of modernizing the economy - are categorically opposed. In fact, neoliberalism and its experience in other countries.
    -----------------------------------------
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 27 November 2013 19: 06
      +5
      Hello to you, too. hi
      Quote: Generalissimus
      You can call a bulkhead, is not it?

      Chur me. laughing Industry analysis say? Where is it, industry? It is referred to as the achievement of army modernization, but without a parallel economic upswing, it depends on the price of oil, and in the event of a serious conflict, the price of this modernization is worthless, the country's defense capability depends primarily on industry, and the ability to renew losses. There is a lot of pathos, but there are no real cases under the magnifying glass. All public attention is now focused on successes in foreign policy, I believe that this is nothing more than a distraction from domestic problems.
      Quote: Generalissimus
      For some reason, it is forgotten to mention that for the modernization of production you need not only desire, albeit burning, but also means, and time, and personnel. If all this state began to pay attention only in the last 3-4 years,

      Where are the real steps? You are talking about 3-4 years, but what was done not in words, but in practice? You accuse me of liberalism, you are wrong, I am a supporter of tough measures, most of the current opposition needs to brush their foreheads with brilliant green. Just got blind faith in the king. 13 years in power, and practically nothing. I cannot offer anyone in his place except Lukashenko, we do not have a worthy opposition.
      Quote: Generalissimus
      Constructive conversation, including in the discussion of such articles, requires at least a restrained expression of one’s thoughts.

      In some ways you are right, emotions are off scale, you want to move forward, but it is not, you take a step forward amid loud applause, and then, quietly, two back. "Optimists" do not see these steps back, they revel in pseudo achievements. Enrages.
      PS Thanks for the capacious answer hi I didn’t set you a minus.
    2. Encoder
      Encoder 28 November 2013 09: 31
      0
      I can only add that it was precisely these Nemtsovs, Prokhorovs and Navalny who, together with those who still firmly grasped (not tear), created these problems. It was they (and the like) in the 90s that were power.
  • sub307
    sub307 27 November 2013 17: 58
    +1
    The grounds for optimism, unfortunately, are not enough so far. There is hope.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 27 November 2013 18: 00
    +4
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Putinoids will again call the article decadent and panic. They always unpleasant truth pierces the eyes.laughing
    It seems that there are plants - KamAZ, ZIL, GAZ, Ural, and there are more and more foreign brands on the roads, including Chinese ones. But what are we going to fight on?
    In civilian life the same situation. Recently discussed a similar situation in the fleet. Where are the efforts of the government to stop stagnation inside the country? Become an optimist will not work.

    You suggest to give up immediately ..? Tipo weapons ... but all the thieves no one will fight and nothing ..And we will surrender quietly peacefully eat burgers and Coca = drink cola ..? Hitler also remembered thinking about the USSR like that ... So don’t whine .. You’re tired of liveries already (20 years = the same thing) now, though you’ve got some tails wrapped up ..
  • w.ebdo.g
    w.ebdo.g 27 November 2013 21: 43
    +3
    after reading this - "first of all, you need to destroy targets - the further, faster and more accurately, the better, but we are still inferior in the range of defeat to our main competitors."
    I realized that the article was written by another "specialist in the humanities", and the high names signed in this article were used for the solidity of the supplied nonsense ... wink
    This article sets a topic for conversation "all-fledged".
    but if the article isn’t there, there’s nothing to talk about)))
    the article is purely for "people".
    I don’t understand how she got to this seemingly patriotic site? and something often began to slip through such articles.
    I hope that the site administrators did not receive orders from advertisers - skip such texts ...
    wink
  • mirag2
    mirag2 28 November 2013 03: 43
    +2
    I’m Putininoid himself, but I agree with you, where is our production?
    After all, I believe it would be quite simple to direct at least part of the energy that wasted on the Olympics that did not give us anything (except for ruin) —not building up industry.
    In Germany (which I greatly respect for the order and cultivation of technical thought), a technical specialist receives more money than a financial one, on the contrary, in our country.
    Here is my brother’s woman, a financial specialist in an advertising company (in fact, an accountant, the whole 1C business program) will receive 200 rubles, and the lead engineer -000 rubles.
    And 1C Accounting needs to be studied-time is needed-a month, well, I don’t know well three months before the configuration source code it can be studied.
    And this, together with the lack of attention to production, is not only the legacy of the 90s (by the way, advised by Chubais-creature and nits Gaidar), but also a direct result of the wrecking activities of our liberal government.
  • Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 28 November 2013 06: 15
    +2
    Has anyone seen a plasma or liquid crystal domestic television, computer, laptop lately? How in the country, which itself does not produce consumer electronics, will the most complex automated combat control systems interface with the global navigation satellite system? If there is no domestic electronic component base and software, it is difficult to expect a quick modernization of the army. After all, rearmament does not mean the mechanical replacement of old equipment with a new one with old TTX.
    request how true ... but with the commodity economy oh how hard it is to create something high-tech .. crying
  • negeroi
    negeroi 28 November 2013 11: 03
    -1
    Debiloids demand the power of the USSR from a plundered country, they say they are trying poorly, and new revolutions. What optimism is there.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • q_556
    q_556 27 November 2013 16: 10
    11
    How will a country that doesn’t produce consumer electronics produce sophisticated automated combat control systems coupled with a global navigation satellite system?

    Unfortunately, the bitter truth is that in terms of electronic computing systems, our country is far behind other major powers. Therefore, we have only two options: either purchase abroad, or learn how to do it ourselves. I think the right decision is obvious.
    1. SV
      SV 27 November 2013 22: 26
      0
      "unfortunately" where does this knowledge come from? On radio "Zvezda" several months ago I listened to an analytical program and interviews of those responsible for this industry ... According to this source, the failure of the 90s has largely been leveled, and the absence of Russian computers on the market is not an indicator. Design bureaus work (in one profile I have a brother-in-law) soldier
  • WIN969
    WIN969 27 November 2013 16: 16
    0
    Pessimism always leads to a loop.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 27 November 2013 16: 27
      +6
      Quote: WIN969
      Pessimism always leads to a loop.

      And heedless optimism for the chopping block, or the wall.
  • Volodya Sibiryak
    Volodya Sibiryak 27 November 2013 16: 19
    +5
    As always, the question of money arises, first of all, it is necessary to restore order in the financial sphere, the rest will follow. With a competent distribution of funds, production and technologies can be pulled to a new level. In general, the prosecutor’s office is not the edge of the work.
  • JonnyT
    JonnyT 27 November 2013 16: 21
    +6
    Ah dreams, dreams! If we restore our production, then Europe and England will die of hunger! We will not be allowed to do this! We are a huge market!
    1. rsnv
      rsnv 27 November 2013 16: 44
      +4
      Russia has no other choice but to restore its national production and this must be done as soon as possible, as long as the bearers of production knowledge and culture are still alive and capable. If this does not happen, then in the foreseeable future the "huge sales market" will cease to exist.
      It’s just whether the stealing Russian elite is capable of restoring the industry that it killed ... I think that it’s beyond her power.
  • Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 27 November 2013 16: 23
    +3
    Balanced and mobile. Experts see such a future Russian army

    You do not have to be a specialist to see this. But exactly how mobile, in what direction, quantity and for what purpose - this is already the lot of specialists. As well as balance.
    But with such a situation in the economy and with the dominance of liberals and compradors in power, there will be no real army.
  • Asgard
    Asgard 27 November 2013 16: 42
    12
    In 86 he wrote an analytical note "On sufficient Forces and Means of the USSR Armed Forces"
    in which he noted that the development of delivery vehicles (air and sea transBorts)) + the development of promising areas, such as hovercraft, ekranoletov, airships, gyroplanes))
    SHOULD BE A PRIORITY FOR THE COUNTRY's MIC ... and a "locomotive" for the entire industry ...
    And the concept of using the Armed Forces of the Army in accordance with the Military Doctrine for the Protection of Frontiers and Interests of the Country should be changed, from the front to the Local-focal ......
    To achieve the protection of the USSR from future threats, 4 groups are enough, with a strength of 100 thousand people, deployed in the; - Far East, -Siberia (reserve) - Ukraine, and -Western District ... As the most likely place of attack !!!!!
    And two branches of the armed forces brought together in a "network structure" of Air Defense and Rocket Space Troops. UNIFORMLY DISTRIBUTED IN THE TERRITORY OF THE USSR. Recruited from the PROFESSIONAL military.
    As they say - counter-agents, and then I wrote about "Engineers of the USSR Armed Forces" ....
    The total strength of the Army (sufficient)) is 450 thousand people (with the declared mobility of deploying the group for 4 days))
    The reserve of conscripts (persons not older than 40 years)) - 2 million people.
    In peacetime, the means of "transport" troops can be used for the delivery of national economic goods within the country, as well as in the field of Foreign Economic Trade ...


    Previous exercises have shown that the Economic Residents are not prepared to interact with the military interests of the country. Remember the situation with the MILES on the airfields of the Far East.
    And the Moscow Region had somewhere more than a thousand of GDP throughout the country (in Soviet times))
    Then the Army was reduced, removing the most feckless commanders (just like in the police)) and after all it was possible to carry out the capture of the airfield as on August 20, 1968 At 23.00, a Soviet transport plane, having reported an engine malfunction, made an emergency landing at an airfield in Prague. The special forces units jumped out of the plane before it came to a complete stop and ran towards the control tower. The confused Czechs offered no resistance. The seizure of the airfield ensured the transfer of the Vitebsk airborne division to the capital on Antonov-class aircraft. The invasion of Czechoslovakia marked the beginning of the most successful period in the history of the Soviet airborne forces. At the very beginning of the operation, the soldiers of the 103rd Guards Division and the GRU (Army Intelligence) landed at the Prague airport and captured it.
    Two hours later, the ASU-85 (self-propelled artillery unit) of the paratroopers took up positions in front of the building of the Central Committee of the Communist Party in the very center of the Czechoslovak capital. Meanwhile, in Prague, other special forces units that had penetrated into Czechoslovakia a few days before, occupied radio and television centers, telephone centers and editorial offices of major newspapers, and at 4.00 entered the building of the Central Committee, where a meeting of the cabinet of Alexander Dubchek was taking place. And here there was no resistance. Having "taken by storm" the government, the commandos held the ministers of the sovereign state at gunpoint for five hours, and then took them to Moscow.
    In the evening of August 21, Czechoslovakia was again in the Soviet camp. Unlike the actions in Hungary, when 25 thousand Hungarians and 7 thousand Soviet soldiers died, the seizure of Czechoslovakia was almost without bloodshed.
    So it was necessary to do in the exercises))))))
  • mak210
    mak210 27 November 2013 16: 49
    +5
    Balanced and mobile. Experts see such a future Russian army


    An idiotic name, purely captain Evidence. Who wants to see the army unbalanced and sedentary?
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 27 November 2013 16: 56
    +4
    Quote: "Before Serdyukov, there were 357 officers in the army and navy. In the course of 'bringing to a new look', they were reduced to 150, and 200 were transferred to the reserve."
    Dismissed young lieutenants who had just graduated from military schools and experienced young colonels. They drove them out of the army mercilessly. This situation developed shortly before the war (in 1937 year). True, officers were shot then. Now they say: there are not enough officers, it is necessary to extend the service life of those remaining in the personnel. If people like Serdyukov carry out the reform, the Russian army will turn into an analogue of the amusing troops of Peter I, at the dawn of the formation of the regular Russian army.
    1. rsnv
      rsnv 27 November 2013 17: 14
      +6
      Quote: Ivanovich47
      They drove them out of the army mercilessly. This situation developed shortly before the war (in 1937). True, officers were then shot.


      No need to write nonsense, you are not Novodvorskaya.
      "In 1937, 18656 people were dismissed, or 13,1% of the payroll, of which:
      a) for political reasons (expulsion from the party, communication with enemies of the people) - 11104;
      b) those arrested - 4474;
      c) for drunkenness and moral decay -1139;
      d) due to illness, disability, after death - 1941.
      Of those arrested (4474 people), far from all were repressed, and 517 people. were restored to service in 1938-1939. "
      (source: I. Pykhalov. Great slandered war. 4th expanded edition of 2012)
    2. seller trucks
      seller trucks 27 November 2013 17: 31
      +2
      Quote: Ivanovich47
      This situation developed shortly before the war (in 1937 year). True, officers were shot then.


      did you read this with Khrushchev? 90-95% of the arrested officers were rehabilitated, and all the executions seem to be to you.
    3. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 27 November 2013 19: 15
      +6
      Quote: Ivanovich47
      Dismissed young lieutenants who had just graduated from military schools and experienced young colonels.

      The bulk of the downsized were captains. Namely, the captains and majors are the most efficient part of the officers - they have ALREADY gained experience, but they have not yet had time to "eat".
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 27 November 2013 21: 26
        +6
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        The bulk of the abbreviations were captains.


        But I didn’t shrink, I left (by the way with a cap) without a pension, I could not see this drunk face on the walls in the offices.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 27 November 2013 22: 42
          +3
          Quote: Vadivak
          And I didn’t shrink, I left (by the way with a cap) without a pension,

          It is a pity that they were counting on exactly that, creating unacceptable conditions as a method of reduction. The cops are now in a similar situation. At least got a civilian job?
          1. Vadivak
            Vadivak 28 November 2013 09: 39
            +3
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            At least got a civilian job?


            I work thank God.
  • 2sila
    2sila 27 November 2013 17: 03
    -4
    Just a bunch of jerky and tailored to the article subjective insecurity, secondary.
    The enumeration and statement of which, without factual justification, is simply "water".
    And in general, how does it happen that when you:

    Yuri Bukreev,
    Chief of the Main Directorate of the Ground Forces (1998 – 2001), Chairman of the Board of MEGAPIR, Colonel-General

    ........... and you serve in the Army, then everything is smooth and bunched, and when "washed" you have to fill everything with shit ?!
  • polkownik1
    polkownik1 27 November 2013 17: 10
    +2
    Unfortunately, the old philosophical question about the role of personality in history in our country has taken on an ugly form. One dilettante talked about our aviation industry and the need to purchase aircraft from abroad - the "effective" business was happy to hurry up. Buys. Now we know what and how it buys. The picture is roughly the same in other industries. The government, as a collegial body, should be composed of specialists who have gone through fire and water. Design bureaus should be led by general designers; factories - experienced production workers. Everything should be focused on quality, not profit. There will be quality - profit will be required! Itself will come! But alas, this whole strategy is in the hands of one or two people and is built on the basis of their level of amateurism and self-confidence ... Stalin was not a design engineer and production worker; but he met with designers, engineers, directors almost every day. He was not afraid to seem ignorant, listening to their opinions. He was a strategist; they were tacticians. To each his own. But the goal was common. Today, each participant in the process has its own goal.
  • tchoni
    tchoni 27 November 2013 17: 36
    +3
    The little thing of course - ah. We all will die. Yes, there are moments (for example, with the reduction of officers, they went too far, but I think it’s wrong, because to prepare a person for 5 years, then from 3 to 15 years to pay him a salary and throw out a ready-made specialist - nonsense) that the author guessed, but the rest didn’t go to the village to the city.
    To begin with, the basis of the army is the country's population and its economy, and if we start to correct everything and be consistent, we must first deal with demography, then economy, and then the army. This is good China 1.6 billion Chinese are quite able to feed 2 million Chinese military And with us? - a million for 138 million civilians ?.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 27 November 2013 19: 20
      +3
      Quote: tchoni
      To begin with, the basis of the army is the country's population and its economy, and if we start to correct everything and be consistent, we must first deal with demography, then economy, and then the army

      You think correctly, but with our income from the sale of resources, all this can be done simultaneously.
      1. tchoni
        tchoni 28 November 2013 09: 31
        0
        That is not the question. And the fact that an army of even a million is redundant.
        Comrade Asgard cited the above conclusions and I almost agree with them (minus the futuristic component) that 400 is enough for Russia now.
        1. old rocket man
          old rocket man 28 November 2013 11: 16
          +2
          Quote: tchoni
          That is not the question. And the fact that an army of even a million is redundant.
          Comrade Asgard cited the above conclusions and I almost agree with them (minus the futuristic component) that 400 is enough for Russia now.

          So, according to the calculations of "iksperts" and for the life of an average "Russian" 7 thousand rubles is enough. a month, you don't mean laughing did you do it
  • Oskar
    Oskar 27 November 2013 17: 55
    +6
    It seems that there are plants - KamAZ, ZIL, GAZ, Ural, and there are more and more foreign brands on the roads, including Chinese ones. But what are we going to fight on?
    You’ll fight the Chinese, however))))!
  • patriot2
    patriot2 27 November 2013 17: 55
    +2
    Quote: q_556
    How will a country that doesn’t produce consumer electronics produce sophisticated automated combat control systems coupled with a global navigation satellite system?

    Unfortunately, the bitter truth is that in terms of electronic computing systems, our country is far behind other major powers. Therefore, we have only two options: either purchase abroad, or learn how to do it ourselves. I think the right decision is obvious.

    NOT ONLY Chinese ELECTRONICS!
    Quote: polkownik1
    Unfortunately, the old philosophical question about the role of personality in history in our country has taken on an ugly form. One dilettante talked about our aviation industry and the need to purchase aircraft from abroad - the "effective" business was happy to hurry up. Buys. Now we know what and how it buys. The picture is roughly the same in other industries. The government, as a collegial body, should be composed of specialists who have gone through fire and water. Design bureaus should be led by general designers; factories - experienced production workers. Everything should be focused on quality, not profit. There will be quality - profit will be required! Itself will come! But alas, this whole strategy is in the hands of one or two people and is built on the basis of their level of amateurism and self-confidence ... Stalin was not a design engineer and production worker; but he met with designers, engineers, directors almost every day. He was not afraid to seem ignorant, listening to their opinions. He was a strategist; they were tacticians. To each his own. But the goal was common. Today, each participant in the process has its own goal.

    So I think so that it is impossible to LET ALL PROCESSES IN THE COUNTRY DEPARTURE. And a word that was invented - THE MARKET, THE MARKET WILL ADJUST IT.
    BUT ON THE "MARKET" SHOULD BE A DIRECTOR OR OWNER! AND SO - THIS IS ALREADY NOT A MARKET, AND A SHOPPING ROOM!!!
    1. rsnv
      rsnv 27 November 2013 18: 26
      10
      Quote: patriot2
      NOT ONLY Chinese ELECTRONICS!

      Chinese electronics are very different. Many of us, unknowingly or under the influence of stereotypes, underestimate China. For example, Huawei Technologies Co. Ltd. - One of the largest Chinese companies in the field of telecommunications, the equipment of which is used by MTS, Megafon and Beeline (previously these companies used equipment from Alcatel, Nokia, Siemens). The modern RF does not produce communication equipment for mobile and wireline networks, it is too complicated, it is easier to trade in oil and gas.
      The Chinese company Sujun Electronic Co. (trade mark "QUICK") produces BGA repair centers, soldering robots and soldering stations of the QUICK brand, which are widely used at the factories FOXCONN, SHINCO, PANASONIC, SONY, PHILIPS, NOKIA, MOTOROLA, DELTA GROUP and many other well-known companies. Soldering robots QUICK are also used at the enterprises of the military-industrial complex of the Russian Federation, since in the Russian Federation they do not produce soldering robots, as well as industrial robots, too. Domestic 40-watt soldering iron is difficult to find even now.
      RIGOL TECHNOLOGIES, INC. - became the first Chinese company to produce digital oscilloscopes with a sampling frequency of 1 gigahertz, and the DS5000CA series was so successful that it served as the basis for the production of DSO3000 series oscilloscopes for Agilent Technologies, USA. In 2006, RIGOL took the 2nd place in the world in the production of low-cost digital oscilloscopes. In Russia, unlike the USSR, they do not produce digital oscilloscopes, multimeters, functional generators, and the like, without which the development, production and repair of electronic equipment is impossible, but the Russian Federation occupies a leading position in oil export.
      These are just three examples that characterize the state of China's electronics, you can continue, only it will be completely sad ...
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 27 November 2013 19: 25
        +3
        Quote: rsnv
        Chinese electronics are very different

        Yes, it’s clear that it is different, they can do good things. It's about what you need to do your own, especially for the defense industry. And when we are engaged in technology with Chubais and Serdyukov, with the greatest allowance of GDP, I see no reason for optimism.
        1. rsnv
          rsnv 27 November 2013 19: 35
          +3
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          It's about what you need to do your own, especially for the defense industry. And when we are engaged in technology with Chubais and Serdyukov, with the greatest allowance of GDP, I see no reason for optimism.

          What optimism is there. These people will not raise and develop domestic industry under any circumstances, they have opposite tasks.
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 27 November 2013 20: 30
            +1
            Quote: rsnv
            they have opposite tasks.

            In fact of the matter. But for some, the belief in a good king is unshakable. I understand them when you sink, and you grab hold of a straw, and here I am trying to take a straw.
            1. Vadivak
              Vadivak 27 November 2013 21: 28
              +4
              Quote: Ingvar 72
              and here I’m trying to take a straw.


              Do not take away, be a man, their anchor is tied to their feet
  • demotivator
    demotivator 27 November 2013 18: 02
    +5
    Just recently, our Minister of Defense, Sergei Shoigu, in an interview with Saturday’s News with Sergey Brilev. “The main enemy is international terrorism. Maybe this is a boring, banal phrase, but look who is fighting in Syria, in Afghanistan, in Mali, in Libya. The second is 2014, Afghanistan. Third, this is the approach of NATO to our borders, ”said Shoigu.
    What does terrorism, even international, and the tasks of the Ministry of Defense have to do with it? The FSB is engaged in terrorists, partly the Ministry of Internal Affairs, if the terrorists gather in large teams, then the internal troops and special forces of the relevant departments (but not GRU special forces, this is not his task). Was Shoigu going to fight with tanks on terrorists or on strategic bombers? We, like Shoigu, saw on TV who were fighting in Syria, in Afghanistan, in Mali, in Libya. But the troops of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation do not fight there, and I hope they will not.
    As for terrorism in the territory of the Russian Federation, there is not much international here, basically everything is local, North Caucasian. And this is also the concern of anyone, but not Shoigu. For the entire time of the war in the Caucasus, the army took part (and also on a secondary role, as a participant in the military operation) in the elimination of two terrorist attacks - in Budennovsk and in Kizlyar-Pervomaisky. Both times, by the way, are extremely unsuccessful. But the state security was in charge of both operations.
    But the minister did not say anything about the task of ensuring the defense sufficiency of the Russian Federation.
    Who is our strategic adversary? In what sequence, and how is the Ministry of Defense preparing to repel one or another military threat from these probable opponents? Well, at least the problem of the fleet in the Black Sea - and the Mediterranean theater of operations.
    What is being done to strengthen the position of the Baltic Fleet in connection with finding its main base as an enclave surrounded by NATO countries? How will the communications base in Kaliningrad be provided in case of war?
    In connection with the surrender of Soviet positions in the Arctic, extended communications in the area of ​​responsibility of the Northern Fleet should somehow be protected. What is being done for this?
    How will the disputed strategically important territories in the Far East be protected under the conditions of the progressive degradation of the Pacific Fleet?
    The minister does not even say anything about the distant prospects of creating an aircraft carrier fleet - is he waiting for the approach of NATO countries to make it impossible for bases to exist in Sevastopol, Kaliningrad and the Kuril Islands, or maybe in Nakhodka? Waiting for the Northern Fleet to be locked by NATO aircraft carrier formations in the White Sea?
    1. Vadivak
      Vadivak 27 November 2013 21: 35
      +2
      Quote: demotivator
      What does terrorism, even international, and the tasks of the Ministry of Defense have to do with it?


      It was he who had heard enough of the Americans, they always declare them terrorists before attacking someone with their army.
    2. Russ69
      Russ69 28 November 2013 00: 29
      0
      Quote: demotivator
      What does terrorism, even international, and the tasks of the Ministry of Defense have to do with it?

      The minister will not openly say that America is the main enemy or who else. And terrorism, a convenient wording ....
      Strategic missiles riveting against terrorists? Yes and much more.
      Next year, strategic 22 missiles should be received.
  • EvilLion
    EvilLion 27 November 2013 18: 19
    +2
    Has anyone seen recently a plasma or LCD domestic TV, computer, laptop? How will a country that does not itself produce consumer electronics have the most sophisticated automated combat control systems coupled with the global navigation satellite system? If there is no domestic electronic component base and software, it is difficult to expect a quick modernization of the army.


    Well, on the same "Elbrus" 500 MHz is quite sufficient for practical computers are released, if the author has not seen, then he is simply stupid. "Buran" became the first genuine UAV on computers with 64K opera, electronics itself does not define here, they define quite specific technologies that the Russian Federation has, and it is not a technical process, the F-22 is built on 1000-1500 nm chips.
    1. rsnv
      rsnv 27 November 2013 18: 51
      -2
      Quote: EvilLion
      Well, on the same "Elbrus" 500 MHz is quite sufficient for practical computers are released, if the author has not seen, then he is simply stupid.

      Well) I'm stupid, I can't understand what the above phrase means) and where is that "Elbrus" now.

      Quote: EvilLion
      "Buran" became the first genuine UAV on computers with 64K opera, electronics itself does not define it here, they define quite specific technologies

      Of course, "electronics does not define here," say electronics engineers like you.

      Quote: EvilLion
      it’s not a technical process, the F-22 is built on 1000-1500 nm chips.

      You know what it is equal to 1500 nm, for a connoisseur of technological processes of microelectronics, I inform you that 1500 nm is equal to 1.5 microns - such a process was first used by Intel in 1982, i.e. 31 (thirty-one) a year ago !!!

      Quote: EvilLion
      determine the very specific technologies that the Russian Federation has

      The Russian Federation does not produce technological equipment intended for the production of microcircuits; its electronic engineering has long ceased to exist.
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 27 November 2013 19: 29
        +1
        Well, I’ll tell you a secret, it’s impossible to change the equipment of military equipment like video cards for the next Crysis and Battlefield, the F-22 was laid in the 80 years, then the 1500 nm was advanced, then military-grade chips appeared on such a technological process. These are already the 90 years, and the F-22 on what is set then flies. NASA EMNIP 8088 procured on E-bay for shuttles.
        Moreover, if the technical process suits everyone, then no one changes it, and on your mother with 45 nm, there may well be microcircuits on 500, 800 nm.
        Equipment for 90 nm has recently appeared in the Russian Federation, but in fact this is only needed for iPhones, but not for the controller in the engine control unit.

        where is that "Elbrus" now


        Well, for example, in control systems C-300, C-400.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbPbozDcqB4
        Do not buy this in stores, but for practical tasks, if they do not involve playing Crysis 3 with maximum graphics, that's enough.
        1. rsnv
          rsnv 27 November 2013 20: 41
          +2
          Quote: EvilLion
          Well, I’ll tell you a secret, it’s impossible to change the equipment of military equipment as video cards for the next Crysis and Battlefield

          I’m better for you - play less in Crysis and Battlefield.

          Quote: EvilLion
          F-22 was laid in the 80s, then 1500 nm was advanced

          The aircraft was "laid down" as a concept, and the first pre-production aircraft took off at the end of 1997. The 1500 nm process technology was advanced in 1982, in 1989 they moved (USA) to 800 nm.

          Quote: EvilLion
          This is already the 90s, and the F-22 on what was then delivered flies.

          Do not flatter yourself, avionics built on a modular basis and is constantly being upgraded, this is not a glider that can survive several avionics upgrades.

          Quote: EvilLion
          Moreover, if the technical process suits everyone, then no one changes it, and on your mother with 45 nm, there may well be microcircuits on 500, 800 nm.

          According to the technological process, 500, and even more so 800 nm, analog microcircuits developed in the mid-80s and simple digital logic are now being produced on my mat. there are no such elements on the board.
          Quote: EvilLion
          Equipment for 90 nm has recently appeared in the Russian Federation

          Yes, a second-hand French-Italian STMicroelectronics appeared to consider it obsolete and sold it to the Russian Federation.

          Quote: EvilLion
          90 nm, but in fact it is only needed for iPhones, but not the controller in the engine control unit.

          For some reason, the leading manufacturers of avionics and other electronic systems for military and industrial purposes do not think so, but you probably know better). Many modern microcontrollers and DSPs are manufactured using the 65 nm manufacturing process, and FPGAs have a smaller manufacturing process.
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 27 November 2013 22: 12
            0
            Do not flatter yourself, avionics built on a modular basis and is constantly being upgraded, this is not a glider that can survive several avionics upgrades.


            And rewrite the software? Go to any plant, there they will show you systems that have been operating for 10 for years and 20, the monitors of the operators may have changed, and the controllers are all standing.
            1. rsnv
              rsnv 27 November 2013 22: 31
              +1
              Quote: EvilLion
              And rewrite the software?

              Rewriting and software, but not all, it is also built on a modular basis.

              Quote: EvilLion
              Go to any plant, there they will show you systems that have been operating for 10 years and 20, the monitors of the operators may have changed, and the controllers are all standing.

              I saw systems (CNC) that have been working unchanged for 30 years (since 1984), but this is not from a good life, but from the beggarly state of the enterprise and to the avionics avionics it has nothing to do. Industrial electronic equipment and aviation avionics have a completely different life cycle.
  • Snipe 74
    Snipe 74 27 November 2013 18: 21
    +5
    Yes. We have something to threaten the adversaries with. In some ways we have no analogues in the world. We supply the troops one by one. They promise a new, balanced army. They promise a lot more. But I have no faith in our government. The army may be created, but whose interests will it defend? After all charges were dropped from Serdyukov and appointed to a new position, I can no longer trust either Putin or the government. Previously, echelons with military equipment passed more than one per day. Everyone saw, knew and understood that the army is physically visible. And now I only read articles about the army and the comments of various "specialists". Earlier, planes from Savastleika did not give rest and fly and fly. And today I do not even know if this flight unit exists ... Of course, it is necessary to discuss the problems of the army, only I want to see real deeds and not verbiage.
    1. rsnv
      rsnv 27 November 2013 19: 01
      +4
      Quote: Snipe 74
      Yes. We have something to threaten the adversaries with.

      Yes, while there is, thanks to the USSR.
      Quote: Snipe 74
      Something we do not even have analogues in the world.

      That's for sure. Nowhere in the world have there been defense ministers who previously traded in furniture, and theft of budget funds on such a scale is also nowhere to be found.
    2. Walker1975
      Walker1975 27 November 2013 19: 07
      +2
      And when Taburetkin was only appointed Minister of Defense, did you believe the government?
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 27 November 2013 18: 52
    +1
    Here, men, remember how the collapse of the USSR began in the 80s and 90s (there was a peak) this is from hay to all that our industry produced science agriculture .. (maybe the packaging is not quite beautiful and somewhere rough ..) but the quality was at the level.! Now again the wave went like what can Russia produce besides pumping out crude oil and gas ...? Again, such articles humiliate us too .. If it were a simple criticism, then I agree .. here the boat is being rocked again .. That's what I think ..!
    1. rsnv
      rsnv 27 November 2013 19: 18
      0
      Meehan, no one is humiliating you, why. You do an important thing - you make ideologically correct comments, and in the mean time, probably, raw materials for the toilet, the quality of which is at the level of your comments.
      PS: I ask you not to be offended by criticism, perhaps not entirely correct. You are not the only patriot here.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • M. Peter
    M. Peter 27 November 2013 19: 28
    +6
    The article correctly noted that we have a huge problem in the lost production. We have a huge failure in machine tool construction. We have now fallen to the level of the beginning of the Stalinist period of the beginning of industrialization.
  • nemec55
    nemec55 27 November 2013 19: 29
    -2
    If they show the tank, then for some reason it must jump

    We have the most important thing, meat (cannon)
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 27 November 2013 19: 33
    +2
    Quote: rsnv
    Meehan, no one is humiliating you, why. You do an important thing - you make ideologically correct comments, and in the mean time, probably, raw materials for the toilet, the quality of which is at the level of your comments.

    Of course, in terms of level, it is far from you (and people like you) in ideology and analytics .. excuse me .. why are we simple mikhan ...))) Only then such "ideologists" scatter .. plunging the country into confusion house .. but we were not to blame, we did not understand .. we wanted the best .. fool Do not like it, do not read .. Do you know such an ideology ..?
    1. rsnv
      rsnv 27 November 2013 19: 55
      +3
      Quote: MIKHAN
      To me, of course, the level is far away from you (and people like you)

      Do not despair, work more on yourself) and you will succeed, be optimistic.
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Only then such "ideologues" scatter .. having plunged the country into turmoil and house .. because we didn’t understand us to blame .. we wanted the best ..

      I have nowhere to run, and there is no need. Unlike the "patriotic" leadership of the Russian Federation, I have no accounts and real estate abroad. I also don’t understand how I, a simple engineer, can plunge the Russian Federation into confusion and "house", I think this will be done without my help by the current "very patriotic" leaders of the Russian Federation, personally I do not want this, because they will fly to London, and I will stay here and you, most likely, too.

      Quote: MIKHAN
      Do not like it, do not read .. Do you know such an ideology ..?

      Of course I know, but only after you do not write, I will not read
  • moskal68
    moskal68 27 November 2013 19: 36
    0
    And more bombers, please!
  • MolGro
    MolGro 27 November 2013 19: 40
    -2
    I did not think that on this site there are so many gosdepovskih trolls !!
    and with such low qualifications, I look even too lazy to change the style
    1 person under three nicknames))) speaks on his own and will not be surprised that he is a plus)
    And as for everything, everything is bad and everything has disappeared, everyone here has more or less http://sdelanounas.ru/ a realistic idea of ​​what is actually happening.
    And not the opinion of pseudo experts and pseudo commentators.!
  • major071
    major071 27 November 2013 19: 44
    +8
    As in a country that itself does not produce consumer electronics, sophisticated automated combat control systems will appear,

    And how did the combat control systems appear in the country, the algorithms of which the Americans still cannot decipher. It’s just that the whole country used to work for the defense industry, but now we are working in the uncle’s pocket.
    1. MolGro
      MolGro 27 November 2013 19: 58
      +2
      Well, about the same as this thing appeared
      The Multiclet company released the first pilot batch of microprocessors created on the basis of its own multicellular architecture, and began their delivery to electronic industry enterprises.
      can be found here http://multiclet.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=146%3A2012-06-
      27-14-36-18&catid=45%3Amicro-news&lang=ru

      PS this problem of "multicellular architecture" could not be solved by bourgeois specialists with all their money!
      1. Marine One
        Marine One 28 November 2013 01: 32
        +1
        Quote: MolGro
        Multiclet Company has released the first pilot batch of microprocessors created on the basis of its own multicellular architecture

        Please don't talk about Multiclet. They have been running around the world for about 7 years looking for money for their "mega-project". Of course, I understand that we have a general impulse for innovation and modernization, and forward Russia, and receive funding from Rusnano or RVC ... Only this processor has nothing new and original, except for beautiful press releases. This idea is already twice as old as the MK company, and everyone and everybody drove it. Further, those who wish to google superscalar architecture and read texts in English, mainly in the language.
  • chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 27 November 2013 20: 02
    +4
    Balanced and mobile. Experts see such a future Russian army
    This means that experts do not understand what kind of army is needed and get off with general phrases. It's like saying - "the army should mainly consist of the military and a certain number of civilians, under the general leadership of the president."
    We have very different opponents, and the tasks of defeating them are solved by different means. And if a balanced and mobile army rules against one enemy, then against another it rowes on cabbage soup from a turntable, and the third one will not even see. For example the south direction. The task is to block the Caucasian ridge, to destroy the infiltrating groups in the foothills and prevent the landing of troops on the coast of the Caspian, Black and Azov seas. Special forces, artillery, motorized infantry maneuvering groups with tanks, rocket artillery and helicopters. URs on the coast, fleet, coastal complexes. In the north of the country, URs along the land border, there is a lot of rocket artillery, very few tanks, powerful front-line aviation. Special units for operations in small groups in harsh climatic conditions, powerful fleet. In the west, "Balanced and Mobile" with an emphasis on URs. In the Chinese direction there are a lot of machine guns, a lot of artillery, a lot of tanks, missiles, gigantic stocks of ammunition, many pre-equipped positions. The Far East, a lot of aviation, a fleet, URs against Japan, USA, against China, the same as in the East. Central Asia, special forces, helicopters, planes, help the allies, infantry and tanks from them. Where is mobility and balance here? Or experts believe that all problems can be solved by mobile and balanced strategic nuclear weapons.
    I apologize for the confusion, but how much can each acne expressed on the topic be considered a specialist, then let me count, and we will write all those present here as specialists.
    1. MolGro
      MolGro 27 November 2013 20: 27
      +3
      I completely agree that it is necessary to build a defense taking into account the directions of the expected attacks and the number of the enemy.
      I would also add the construction of warehouses with more reliable protection than a slate roof, strong points like a headquarters bunker in each military district and moving headquarters away from the border !!
      1. atalef
        atalef 27 November 2013 20: 30
        0
        Quote: MolGro
        I would also add the construction of warehouses with more reliable protection than a slate roof, strong points like a headquarters bunker in each military district and moving headquarters away from the border !!

        How are you with such knowledge and just a junior lieutenant, you urgently need to put on a plus sign. fellow
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 27 November 2013 20: 37
          +2
          Hi Sanya. hi Do you always laugh? There are already crows flying, not to joke.
          PS For a long time you slept with a hangover. laughing
          1. atalef
            atalef 27 November 2013 20: 43
            +2
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            Hi Sanya. Do you always laugh? There are already crows flying, not to joke.
            PS For a long time you slept with a hangover.

            Hi, what a hangover, at 5,20 I get up every day, at 6,30 at work already. Yes, I’m so Igoryanych, a little bit (he was at night). Today I bought it again. in two weeks we are driving away on a picnic. Only damn it’s hot we still have +30, the temperature maximum for all years. I would like to have rains and mushrooms. We have white ramparts. but without rain request
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 27 November 2013 21: 07
              +1
              Quote: atalef
              by a little (

              Tell tales. laughing
              Quote: atalef
              I would like to have rains and mushrooms. We have white ramparts. but without rain

              I mean -We have? Are mushrooms growing in Israel? belay
              1. atalef
                atalef 27 November 2013 21: 49
                0
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Quote: atalef
                by a little (

                Tell tales. laughing
                Quote: atalef
                I would like to have rains and mushrooms. We have white ramparts. but without rain

                I mean -We have? Are mushrooms growing in Israel? belay

                And, what is it, white, honey mushrooms, butterfish, such as brown boletus, russula and champignons, but I'm more about white and butter, my mother pickles and we eat one of them with our brother-in-law. I’m not so, and he’s brother-in-law in general, ready to go picking mushrooms at night, so first I eat mine, and then I fall on the tail.
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 27 November 2013 22: 22
                  0
                  Yes, got your brother-in-law. lol And mushrooms, are they kosher? And then, I know you can’t do everything, for example shrimp. I can eat 3 pounds of shrimp, of course with beer.
                  P.S. The fact that you love fat will be our secret. drinks
                  1. atalef
                    atalef 27 November 2013 23: 27
                    0
                    Well, mushrooms will be kosher laughing
                    And once again, who do we need?
                    In general, believers do not eat shrimp, I’ll explain to you the system, which is simple to ugliness, a meat animal should have a cloven hoof and chew gum - everything else is not kosher, sea (freshwater) must have scales and gills - everything else is not kosher, meat can be eaten after milk after 3 hours (in my opinion), milk after meat (6 hours) - due to the different digestion rates, vegetables and fruits can be eaten with everything and always, well, like everything. the animal must be stabbed with one cut, with the sharpest knife (so that it does not feel pain) all the blood should be released. - now everything is fine, it concerns believers they still have fasting when you can’t eat one or the other or even, Alcohol can hi
                    1. builder
                      builder 27 November 2013 23: 37
                      +6
                      there are options wink
                      1. atalef
                        atalef 28 November 2013 00: 28
                        +1
                        Quote: stroitel
                        there are options wink

                        Class !!!!!!!!! good
                      2. builder
                        builder 28 November 2013 00: 38
                        +1
                        Quote: atalef
                        Quote: stroitel
                        there are options
                        Class !!!!!!!!!

                        wink drinks
  • old rocket man
    old rocket man 28 November 2013 12: 48
    0
    Quote: chunga-changa
    let's then consider me, and all those present here will also be written to specialists.

    Well, why, you very intelligently stated everything correctly. drinks
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 27 November 2013 20: 14
    0
    Quote: rsnv
    Quote: MIKHAN
    To me, of course, the level is far away from you (and people like you)

    Do not despair, work more on yourself) and you will succeed, be optimistic.
    Quote: MIKHAN
    Only then such "ideologues" scatter .. having plunged the country into turmoil and house .. because we didn’t understand us to blame .. we wanted the best ..

    I have nowhere to run, and there is no need. Unlike the "patriotic" leadership of the Russian Federation, I do not have accounts and real estate abroad. I also do not understand how I, a simple engineer, can plunge the Russian Federation into turmoil and "house", I think this will be done without my help by the current "very patriotic" leaders of the Russian Federation, personally I do not want this, tk. they will fly to London, and I will stay here and you, most likely, too.

    Quote: MIKHAN
    Do not like it, do not read .. Do you know such an ideology ..?

    Of course I know, but only after you do not write, I will not read

    Well, simple engineers (Ph.D. Berezovsky) were also at first simple department heads and modestly sang songs in the kitchen "Let's join hands friends ..))). Well, in the end, I'm not an FSB operator and I live modestly like most in Russia .. I just remember the 90s, how it all began and how it ended .. We will take it all out for a long time .. And I suggest you resign and go to dvrrniki closer to the border with the EU .. (I advise you to grow a beard) and put on a turban. . when you cross the border .. There are such love .. And you will be happy! laughing
    1. rsnv
      rsnv 27 November 2013 20: 57
      +3
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Well, simple engineers (Ph.D. Berezovsky)

      Why are you reducing the scientific merits of the deceased, he is not a candidate of sciences, he was a doctor of physical and mathematical sciences and a corresponding member of the Russian Academy of Sciences. In the days of the USSR, he worked fruitfully and on business, worked a lot, then they just did not become a doctor of physics and mathematics, it’s now that he’s not a deputy or a big bureaucrat, then he is a doctor ... of sciences. He became a freak in Russia in the early 90's, but he did not ruin the USSR.

      Quote: MIKHAN
      I just remember the 90s how it all began and how it ended .. We will disentangle all this for a long time ..

      Remember, not everything, but it would be worth remembering that it was Boris Abramych who helped your idol climb the imperious Olympus.

      Quote: MIKHAN
      We will disentangle all this for a long time ..

      This is rightly noticed, we will disentangle for a long time, if we do not choke.

      Quote: MIKHAN
      And to you dear "engineer" I propose to quit and go to dvrrniki closer to the border with the EU .. (I advise you to grow a beard) and put on a turban .. when you cross the border .. There are such people love .. And you will be happy!

      How original, you progress, keep up the good work.
      1. MIKHAN
        MIKHAN 27 November 2013 21: 37
        0
        No, everything is clear with you .. (there are many such "engineers" in Russia who envy people like Berezovsky .. and dream of a new section and "integration" even with the devil himself .. heh heh .. I think this is the main problem of Russia .. (a screwdriver pick in the microcircuit .. out of spite and that's all ..) or even worse, drawings, etc., are thrown off ..
        1. rsnv
          rsnv 27 November 2013 22: 02
          +3
          Quote: MIKHAN
          No, everything is clear with you ..

          Meehan, you are like a godfather, prone to philosophical generalizations.

          Quote: MIKHAN
          there are many such "engineers" in Russia who envy people like Berezovsky

          Has a poll been conducted for a long time? Wake up, Berezovsky died, who envies the dead man. Do not cast a shadow on the engineering corps of Russia.

          Quote: MIKHAN
          and dreaming of a new section and "integration" even with the devil himself .. heh heh ..

          This is a strong, already impure force has gone, it’s not scary looking at night.

          Quote: MIKHAN
          This is the main problem of Russia I think ..
          If you think so well, but I thought fools and roads.

          Quote: MIKHAN
          poked around with a screwdriver in a chip .. to spite, that's all ..) or even worse, drawings, etc. are thrown off ..

          With such knowledge and analytical abilities, it’s time to work in counterintelligence, and not to sit on the forum.



  • Andrey Peter
    Andrey Peter 27 November 2013 20: 38
    0
    Quote: Volodya Sibiryak
    As always, the question of money arises, first of all, it is necessary to restore order in the financial sphere, the rest will follow. With a competent distribution of funds, production and technologies can be pulled to a new level. In general, the prosecutor’s office is not the edge of the work.

    If the matter is only in the prosecutor's office. Every day you hear that millions were stolen there, then in another sphere. But in general, a person is found guilty only by court order. And the funny thing is that the court always lacks evidence of guilt (especially when it comes to big money) request
    As for the development of both the army and production, there isn’t enough money for all, but I agree with those who believe that production had to be restored first, so as not to depend on imports. Fortunately, the former supply of the USSR allowed to maintain the advantage in terms of armament.
    And yet, how much money do we spend on Skolkovo? I watched yesterday a program about their achievements - "kindergarten". So understand what we have money for and what we don't. It has long been disgusting how money is used, moreover, earned on the resources of the country and the people.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 27 November 2013 20: 44
    0
    In the article, of course, everything is written correctly (regarding .. I put a minus to her) Just tell me when it was ideal in Russia so that you could not criticize ulcers, etc. .. Tell me those times ??? .. There has always been a lot of theft sloppiness .. and yet we remain a world power influencing global processes .. If we hadn’t produced anything (except oil and gas) Russia would not have existed for a long time ... so small house areas (well, except for oil and gas fields). So it’s enough to engage in self-abasement and criticism of everything connected with Russia .. to the joy of our enemies ... I said everything! ..
  • kundyshev
    kundyshev 27 November 2013 20: 47
    0
    Is this a forum for Advanced Computer Shooting Players?
    Who to me (to the bast shoes) Available (at the level of "moss and lichen") will explain - who is this - "STELS frightened"?
  • yurii p
    yurii p 27 November 2013 22: 45
    0
    "Balanced and mobile. Such specialists see the future Russian army" ... what are these theses, "balanced" is it to spend less money on the army? "Mobile" so that the higher ranks would run around in cool foreign cars? Apparently this is what officials see from the military departments.
    1. servant
      servant 28 November 2013 13: 09
      0
      Former MO for balance and mobility rolled around the world! What has changed? MO new theses are old and everyone applauds? !!!!
  • Levinson 1st
    Levinson 1st 27 November 2013 23: 43
    0
    How will a country that doesn’t produce consumer electronics produce sophisticated automated combat control systems coupled with a global navigation satellite system?


    What kind of country are you talking about? For example, the United States has not been producing consumer electronics since 1994 and still holds on ... I do not think that the author of the article owns the topic he claimed. Clearly sings from someone else's voice.
    Moreover, Sitnov himself for 6 years in the post of chief of armament of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation under Yeltsin, except for dubious transactions for the sale of military equipment, became famous for nothing. So whose cow would mumble, but he would be silent!
    1. rsnv
      rsnv 27 November 2013 23: 59
      +2
      Quote: Levinson 1st
      For example, the United States has not been producing consumer electronics since 1994 and still holds ...

      Yes, almost no produce on its territory. They produce it mainly in China, so it’s cheaper (for now), while the brands, technologies and production equipment belong to the USA, the main engineering developments, for the most part, are also carried out in the USA and the main income from the sale of this electronics on the world market , again, get the USA.

      Quote: Levinson 1st
      I do not think that the author of the article owns the topic he claimed. Clearly sings from someone else's voice.

      You are apparently in the subject, so write an article, do not be shy.
  • zloi_dekabr
    zloi_dekabr 28 November 2013 00: 34
    0
    Hmm, the tendency of the author of the article, however, is funny)) As soon as all these b ... b, experts, retired colonel-general and others, others take up the pen - so such nonsense in the style of "pro-raspolymers" comes out - it is no longer interesting )) Nonsense in the style of Khramchikhin, to be short. Article minus.
    1. rsnv
      rsnv 28 November 2013 00: 44
      +1
      Quote: zloi_dekabr
      Hmm, the tendency of the author of the article, however, is funny)) As soon as all these b ... b, experts, retired colonel-general and others, others take up the pen - so such nonsense in the style of "pro-raspolymers" comes out - it is no longer interesting ))


      If you think that the author wrote "nonsense", then refute it, but only with facts and figures, and then some cheap emotions, but essentially nothing.

      Quote: zloi_dekabr
      Delusions in the style of the temple, to be shorter.

      In your case, brevity is clearly not a sister of talent.
      1. Marine One
        Marine One 28 November 2013 01: 44
        -2
        Quote: rsnv
        You think that the author wrote "nonsense", then refute it,

        Most of these general experts were kicked out of the army just under Serdyukov, and in view of their obvious incompetence. Now it is very funny to see how the same commentators under one expert article howl "Serdyukov's gang of 9 grams", and under another "Down with the expert general" !!!!
    2. servant
      servant 28 November 2013 13: 13
      +1
      Now the former commanders who destroyed single-engine aircraft are also shouting - Serdyukov ditched the aircraft! But they are silent about their merits ...
  • Mizhgan
    Mizhgan 28 November 2013 02: 43
    -3
    If they show the tank, then for some reason it must jump. But he first needs to destroy goals

    For the author - In a jump, the TANK fires a shot ... And very successfully. The target is amazed. (Search engine to help you).
    Only for this moment - a minus article. And the Russian Army - only pluses, for achievements, for getting up off the knees, for posing as a leader in the international arena .... And if someone is dissatisfied with domestic politics, then I’ll answer, first deal with foreign policy (and even, dohrena money goes to all sorts of NGOs), and then the treaties and conventions Yeltsin can x .. put ...
    Well, no matter how, but I see our president is doing the right thing.
  • Alex Danilov
    Alex Danilov 28 November 2013 03: 55
    0
    Quote: rsnv
    Quote: Gluxar_
    But we prosrali 40% of our technology, and the United States prosrali 98% of its technology. So who benefits? What kind of State Department logic, trolls change notes.

    He himself calculated the interest, or wrote it off from the edrosovsky abstract?

    Quote: Gluxar_
    And we have everything in our country. At secret Siberian bases, where your little arms will never reach.

    Is everything everything, just like in Greece? Do you have flying saucers there?

    Quote: Gluxar_
    I will name the positions in which we are not the first places. Nuclear weapons, astronautics, rocket technology, aviation and helicopter engineering, tank building, submarines and missile carriers.

    This statement is strong. Even the great Vladimir Vladimirovich himself did not say such a thing, apparently modest.

    Quote: Gluxar_
    No problem

    No problem, pricked and hello.

    Quote: Gluxar_
    There are some difficulties that arose in the 90s, but they are gradually being corrected.

    Difficulties are gradually corrected, gradually corrected, gradually corrected ... stuck. And so for 14 years.

    Listen, if Russia was weak, as you are trying to portray it here, it would ALREADY not be. Russia can destroy the entire plan in 3 days. And Russia will never surrender its army. The Army is itself the guarantor of life and protection of Russia. Quietly, quickly and efficiently rearm, retrain, build up the army. Within the framework of the Collective Security Treaty Organization, it will do the same. The mosquito will not undermine the nose, it will not fly. Clear? Glory to Russia !!!
    And for the "pricked, hello, and no problem" you have a good trip. But shouldn't I prick and sit on a yars or poplar? Completely new weapons and weapons are also being developed and developed. Wave, psychotic, chemical, biological

    Skye, viral, genetic engineering, êàî in all directions, etc. + Everything with technology. If you do not see it and do not know about it, it means it is classified, you can not show it.
    Read in the link what will happen to Russia.
    http://itar-tass.com/politika/769888
    1. rsnv
      rsnv 28 November 2013 23: 49
      0
      Quote: Alex Danilov
      But do not prick me and sit on a yars or poplar?

      Of course, prick, take off your pants and sit on a hedgehog. There are many of them in the Belarusian forests, you won’t be looking for a long time.
      Quote: Alex Danilov
      Completely new weapons and weapons are being developed and developed in the same way. Wave, psychotic, chemical, biological,
      viral, genetic engineering, êàî in all directions, etc. + all with technology.

      Lyosha, you are late, the place of Sveta from Ivanovo has already been taken, you are secondary, but don’t worry, victim of a "psychotic" weapon, you are not the only one here.
      A few quotes for you and colleagues in misfortune: "we began to dress better", "vegetables there, rye, that's all", "there was nothing that right now" ...

      Quote: Alex Danilov
      If you do not see him and do not know about him, then it is classified, you cannot show him.

      I don't see him, but do you see and know? You have hallucinations, you are delusional, but nothing "and you will be cured."
  • Rainman69
    Rainman69 28 November 2013 04: 18
    0
    And from 1993 to 2000 we received five to seven tanks a year, that is, for 20 years we did not rearm the army, but only lagged behind our western counterparts.
    the author has a problem with arithmetic, obviously))))) and how could we modernize something if the first 10 years the country slipped into a * opu, and for the second 10 years it got out of it under the motto "not to fat, I would live" ?! )
  • Rainman69
    Rainman69 28 November 2013 04: 21
    -3
    In short, the site has turned into an anti-Russian one, it’s sad .... no matter how I come in, there will definitely be something anti-Russian, and it will certainly be clicked on ... = (
  • MolGro
    MolGro 28 November 2013 07: 01
    0
    Quote: atalef
    How are you with such knowledge and just a junior lieutenant, you urgently need to put on a plus sign.
    I like to read more than to write comments)
  • individual
    individual 28 November 2013 08: 13
    +1
    Yes everything is correct.
    It is necessary to raise the economy.
    In a country where flourish, buy-sell expanse only to hucksters.
    There is no development of industrial production.
    Look around, who is developing, expanding?
    Only traders who build more and more shopping centers, markets and shops where goods abroad are bought in bulk, and sold on the domestic market at a premium and profits are not invested in the production of goods, but only in their circulation. This is called speculation.
    This government policy has no future.
    This is the policy of temporary workers and these politicians rule the ball in modern Russia.
  • Encoder
    Encoder 28 November 2013 09: 48
    0
    Quote: rsnv
    Yes, almost no produce on its territory. They produce it mainly in China, so it’s cheaper (for now), while the brands, technologies and production equipment belong to the USA, the main engineering developments, for the most part, are also carried out in the USA and the main income from the sale of this electronics on the world market , again, get the USA.

    But only in the event of a hypothetical conflict between China and the United States (I’m not talking about a big war, nobody will need anything there), the Chinese will deeply apply to all trademarks, and factories will work for them. And the Americans also have to bomb these factories.
    1. rsnv
      rsnv 28 November 2013 23: 56
      0
      Quote: Coder
      the Chinese will deeply nas.at all brands, and the factories will work for them.

      "Nourishing the hopes of young men." The Sshtatites have very good coders, they will not have their technological equipment without their knowledge to work for China, do not dream.
  • Soviet_Union
    Soviet_Union 28 November 2013 10: 16
    0
    Quote: Coder
    a mandatory requirement is to effectively shoot down enemy planes

    Whoa, what nah stealth. Why is he needed? Airplane, fighter, dear - his work is to gain supremacy in the sky, even if he is not a stealth. All that moves in the sky, he must bring down. Whether it’s a 5-6 ... 10 generation airplane, or a GZ rocket. Here is his main performance characteristics I think. And stealth, it's just a trend, fashion.
  • Syrdon
    Syrdon 28 November 2013 11: 39
    0
    America stole the ekranoplan technologies from us, but was never able to build even a prototype, America stole from us the technologies of mobile lasers and airborne lasers, but could not really implement them. America launched the SDI program, but was never able to put the combat platform into orbit, and the USSR created SKIF in less time and put it into orbit. America claims that it has a fifth generation fighter, but the Raptor is such a raptor that flying on it is dangerous for the pilot's life, and there is not even a question of combat use. Stealth? So our modern radar station sees this stealth, and also the radars of the old generation in Yugolsavia saw it perfectly, where, by the way, it was shot down. The Abrams tank is not like it was created in the 70s, but it has been fighting since then, periodically modernizing, ours launch the Armata. The "Stryker" armored personnel carrier is not a US development, but the Finnish armored personnel carrier Patria was bought, ours make Kurganets themselves and this is all in the presence of mega-budgets that ours can only dream about.