Military Review

UMPO awarded for the production of blades for the T-50

139
UMPO awarded for the production of blades for the T-50

UMPO and MISiS University were awarded a silver medal for a new technology for the manufacture of turbine blades and a compressor for promising aircraft engines. The new technology allows to reduce fuel consumption and reduce the level of noise produced.


The award was presented to the International Industrial Exhibition Metal-Expo-2013, the press service of UMPO reports.

New technology is used in the framework of the state contract at the expense of the federal budget.

The first experimental batch of parts was manufactured at the facilities of the Ufa enterprise.

Casting vanes from titanium aluminide is a critical technology. Without these elements it is impossible to produce aviation fifth generation engines.

The joint development of UMPO and MISiS uses this casting method to create high-pressure compressor blades of a promising engine for a PAK FA (T-50 fighter) and low-pressure turbine blades for a promising PD-14 civilian engine.

Thanks to the new technology, it will be possible to increase engine performance, reduce specific fuel consumption and reduce noise.

This is achieved by a twofold decrease in the operating centrifugal stresses in the compressor and the turbines of the engines and by reducing the inertia of the turbines and compressors.

"Ufa MOTORCONTROL PRODUCTION ASSOCIATION" - Russia's largest manufacturer of aircraft engines. Engaged in the development, production, service and repair of turbojet aircraft engines and gas pumping units, production and repair of components of helicopter equipment. It is part of United Engine Corporation - 100% of the specialized subsidiary of OPK Oboronprom, JSC for engine asset management.

"OPK" OBORONPROM " - a multidisciplinary engineering group, established in 2002 year. It is part of the Russian Technologies Group of Companies. The main areas of activity are: helicopter building (OJSC Russian Helicopters), engine building (UK United Engine Corporation), other assets. According to the results of 2012, the enterprises of the Corporation produced products and rendered services worth over 270 billion rubles.
Originator:
http://www.rostec.ru/
139 comments
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  1. Volodya Sibiryak
    Volodya Sibiryak 26 November 2013 11: 55
    46
    The blades are simple and unpretentious at first glance, in fact this is a high-tech product that combines a whole range of technologies, from alloy to processing, essentially the most important part of the engine.
    1. Yuri Y.
      Yuri Y. 26 November 2013 11: 59
      19
      Under all other conditions, new technologies will pull us out of the economic pit. This is the hair for which Menhausen dragged himself.
      1. wow
        wow 30 November 2013 22: 57
        +1
        "Ufa-motor" is a very honest "office"! I have been there more than once or twice when I served in the USSR Air Force. I had to retrain on their basis for new engines and work with their factory representatives. Very competent, competent specialists. Then they produced izd. 55B (R-29B-300), these engines were installed on the MiG-27M (D). Good luck guys, well done !!!
    2. makarov
      makarov 26 November 2013 12: 03
      12
      Entirely and completely share your point of view.
      And not a 3D printer or some other motny for hearing and sight of enthusiastic people.
    3. ShturmKGB
      ShturmKGB 26 November 2013 12: 04
      32
      Give the shovels for the T-50! Let's hit with shovels on kickbacks and sloppiness!
      1. F117
        F117 26 November 2013 21: 04
        +8
        Even the little things can play a decisive role in the future.
      2. DimychDV
        DimychDV 27 November 2013 09: 36
        0
        Today we even buy titanium shovels for environmental scientists and oceanologists for earthworks! In - miracles of hardware production, you see - for the survival of aircraft factories consumer goods mastered! Can't I buy a stand for a frying pan made of space hot-plate from under the "Buran"?
    4. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 26 November 2013 12: 09
      54
      UMPO and MISiS University were awarded a silver medal for a new technology for the manufacture of turbine blades and compressor for advanced aircraft engines.
      New technology??? Here is a pancake, the most bleak news for the Chinese, they still could not copy the old, but here is the new laughing
      1. vkrav
        vkrav 26 November 2013 12: 26
        38
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        they still could not copy the old, but here is a new one

        They could not copy because it was once smart enough not to create production in Ukraine ...
        1. Rus2012
          Rus2012 26 November 2013 12: 56
          31
          Quote: vkrav
          They could not copy because it was once smart enough not to create production in Ukraine ...


          ... :)))
          The point is not, dear colleagues ...
          And the fact is that in order to pull new technologies, you need to make a breakthrough of the entire national economy for a whole generation, including the "brain processes" of course :)))))))))
          That's just the last problem ...
          I remember a remarkable conversation with the guys with NPO Saturn (Wait UMPO holding, by the way :) about whether they acted recklessly at one time selling several AL-31 engines. It was 10 years ago ...
          They answered like - we thought for a long time, wondered ... then they decided to sell it. They still have not really mastered the previous generation (Р13Ф300), but where is it ...

          And with the blades there is one more feature - you still need to be able to calculate them in order to work in the 3x dimensional flow.
          And this is the upper class, it is not without reason that the whole west is being trampled at the institute of aircraft engine building;)))
          1. Ascetic
            Ascetic 26 November 2013 13: 27
            10
            Quote: Rus2012
            That's just the last problem ...


            Yes, I am especially sorry for the VILS on Setuni on this topic. Oh, what intelligence and technological power there was at one time. And now almost nothing is left of its former power. Rostekh owns only 40% of the shares there, and 57% of Central Commercial Bank LLC (it is owned by the family of Sergei Veremeenko, a former partner of the notorious senator Sergei Pugachev).
            1. Revolver
              Revolver 26 November 2013 23: 36
              +1
              Quote: Ascetic
              it is owned by the family of Sergei Veremeenko, a former partner of the notorious Senator Sergei Pugachev

              Gay partner, or what? wassat
          2. Vasek
            Vasek 26 November 2013 22: 15
            +1
            Enlighten the infantry:
            Quite recently, a single crystal blade was considered "advanced technology", but now it is casting again.
            A step back or "did it not work out" to grow crystals?
      2. avant-garde
        avant-garde 26 November 2013 12: 35
        26
        you need to throw them a desu
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 26 November 2013 12: 43
          11
          Quote: avant-garde
          you need to throw them a desu

          So this is exactly what Chinese specialists get when trying to copy engine blades wassat
          1. avant-garde
            avant-garde 26 November 2013 12: 47
            +6
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            So this is exactly what Chinese specialists get when trying to

            not earlier is what they did, but the fact that from above it is a new level laughing
      3. VAF
        VAF 26 November 2013 14: 33
        +3
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Here is a pancake, the most bleak news for the Chinese, they still could not copy the old, but here is the new


        Sanya wink ..exclusively only for your phrase about .. "unlucky Chinese" wink

        After 20 years of research, the State Laboratory of Advanced Metals and Materials has achieved the creation of a new type of high-strength heat-resistant material based on an alloy of niobium, titanium and aluminum.

        China received independent intellectual property in this very promising alloy, which will allow "our aerospace industry to make a breakthrough and enter a new stage with the technological level of the leading countries of the world in this field."

        This "superalloy" in its strength is not inferior to an alloy based on nickel, but almost twice as lighter, which will significantly reduce the weight of aircraft engines.
        According to reports, the alloy niobium-titanium-aluminum will open a new era in the development of aerospace technology, ships, will be used in the automotive industry and other industries.

        High-temperature materials are primarily used in the manufacture of turbine blades (compressors) of aircraft engines, which are subjected to extremely high temperature and pressure of the working medium.
        One of the main indicators of the perfection of modern jet engines is specific thrust, that is, the ratio of thrust to engine mass.
        Currently, most modern turbofan engines have an indicator of 7,5-9,0 to 1.
        In this regard, the best in the world is the F119 engine (pictured) of the American F-22 fighter (11,0 to 1).



        The ability of an alloy based on niobium, titanium and aluminum to withstand ultra-high temperatures will increase thrust and at the same time reduce the weight of the power plant, which is very important for the development of China's aviation industry.
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 26 November 2013 14: 42
          +3
          Quote: vaf
          China obtained independent intellectual property in this highly promising alloy, which will allow “our aerospace industry to make a breakthrough

          Hello, Sergey! Yes, there is no market, but then what engines do they buy from us?
          1. VAF
            VAF 26 November 2013 15: 29
            +4
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Yes, there is no market, but then what engines do they buy from us?


            Sanya, here as in the song ... "it's not over yet" wassat .. Remember where the Chinese were 20 years ago wink where now?
            And where will they be ... scary to think recourse
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 26 November 2013 15: 30
              10
              Quote: vaf
              And where will they be ... scary to think

              It’s scary to think where they will be if the US economy collapses laughing
              1. Basarev
                Basarev 26 November 2013 20: 54
                +1
                Not if, but when. Under current conditions, even the Americans themselves have begun to realize that the dollar is just a candy wrapper
                1. Shadowcat
                  Shadowcat 26 November 2013 23: 08
                  0
                  But while this wrapper is wiping the whole world to worry that the demand for their paper will fall somehow silly, even this October-November clowning is no longer funny.
        2. sasha.28blaga
          sasha.28blaga 27 November 2013 05: 51
          0
          "will be used in the automotive industry" So I think I will not live to see the day when I, like that German, say that the best cars are produced in our country and I am very happy about that.
      4. URAL72
        URAL72 26 November 2013 15: 44
        +1
        "Military Parity." After 20 years of research, the State Laboratory of Advanced Metals and Materials has achieved the creation of a new type of high-strength heat-resistant material based on an alloy of niobium, titanium and aluminum, blog.sina.com.cn reported May 19, 2012.

        China received independent intellectual property in this very promising alloy, which will allow "our aerospace industry to make a breakthrough and enter a new stage with the technological level of the leading countries of the world in this field."

        This "superalloy" in its strength is not inferior to an alloy based on nickel, but almost twice as lighter, which will significantly reduce the weight of aircraft engines. According to reports, the alloy niobium-titanium-aluminum will open a new era in the development of aerospace technology, ships, will be used in the automotive industry and other industries.

        I am very sorry, but I have to upset you (he was upset himself) ... belay
      5. Cherdak
        Cherdak 26 November 2013 15: 47
        10
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        they still could not copy the old


        And this beauty will fly even faster!
      6. uncapital
        uncapital 26 November 2013 17: 28
        +9
        By the way, I will paraphrase an old anecdote. The Americans bought the newest disassembled aircraft in Russia. They brought it to their place, assembled it - it turned out to be a steam locomotive. Well, they thought that they had done something wrong, disassembled, reassembled, the result is the same - a locomotive. Well, they think these Russians have deceived again. They call the plant and say, "Guys, what did you sell to us, we wanted to buy the newest combat aircraft, but it turned out to be a steam locomotive? !!!" They are answered from Russia "Have you read the assembly instructions carefully?" "Yes", "If yes, you saw at the very bottom written in small print a note:" AFTER ASSEMBLY, CAREFULLY PROCESS WITH A FILE " laughing
      7. Pajamas
        Pajamas 26 November 2013 20: 09
        +5
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        New technology??? Here is a pancake, the most bleak news for the Chinese, they still could not copy the old, but here is the new laughing

        They still don’t know about the gold medal. laughing
    5. seller trucks
      seller trucks 26 November 2013 12: 18
      +7
      oh, well done, these are the very technologies that the Chinese cannot copy.
      1. Basarev
        Basarev 26 November 2013 20: 56
        0
        They can’t copy the Su-25 nozzles until now, although they tried very hard
    6. Dmitry Zurn
      Dmitry Zurn 26 November 2013 12: 44
      17
      By the way, the modern blades can be manufactured by the Russian Federation, the USA, England and France, even such a technologically advanced country as Japan cannot produce them. I am glad that we still have some technologically advanced areas.
    7. mirag2
      mirag2 26 November 2013 13: 14
      +7
      Yes, this is a very complex detail - my brother studied at the Moscow Aviation Technology Institute. Tsiolkovsky-told a long time ago about this, that's why I am against the Chinese transferring engine production technologies.
      1. Basarev
        Basarev 26 November 2013 21: 04
        -1
        All Asian and Pacific powers need to unite in a good way to control the import of goods and technologies to China in order to ensure controlled technological lag. We all understand that no one needs a strong China. Therefore, we must first cut China off from modern technology, and then systematically reduce the technological level of China - until it returns to its natural state - as before the Opium Wars
        1. atalef
          atalef 26 November 2013 21: 11
          -2
          Quote: Basarev
          All Asian and Pacific powers need to unite in a good way to control the import of goods and technologies into China - with the goal of ensuring controlled technological lag.

          China alone will crush them

          Quote: Basarev
          After all, we all understand that no one needs a strong China


          What about Russia? Who needs a strong one besides the Russians?
          Quote: Basarev
          Therefore, we must first cut China off from modern technology, and then systematically reduce the technological level of China - until it returns to its natural state - as before the Opium Wars

          Elephant laughing and pug
    8. largus886
      largus886 26 November 2013 13: 55
      +7
      Chinas completely licked the su-27, but the engine blades could not! Therefore, the resource of their engines is many times less than ours
      1. Basarev
        Basarev 26 November 2013 21: 10
        -3
        In a good way, China should not have jet aviation at all! China entered the twentieth century as a third world country and with our efforts it must return to this state
    9. stayer
      stayer 26 November 2013 14: 56
      12
      To keep the staff. For example, in Perm at the Aviadvigatel plant, blade grinders are one of the highest paid professions. I think that there are no "students" in the production of blades in Ufa either. We must keep the level.
    10. saturn.mmm
      saturn.mmm 26 November 2013 16: 09
      14
      Quote: Volodya Sibiryak
      The blades are simple and unpretentious at first glance, in fact this is a high-tech product

      I'm certainly not special about jet engines, but in the photo in the article it’s kind of like a jet engine fan is depicted. A turbine blade looks something like this
      1. stayer
        stayer 26 November 2013 16: 34
        +6
        Yes, that’s what the scapula looks like. Only in the photo is a very ancient sample from a civil turbine. I think that you will not find the appearance of a modern blade, the more promising engine in the internet and other resources.
        1. Rus2012
          Rus2012 26 November 2013 19: 26
          0
          Quote: stayer
          I think that you will not find the appearance of a modern blade, the more promising engine in the internet and other resources.

          :))))))
          What matters is not appearance, but technology that allows them to be made ...
          Here is the work of my colleagues from the "watermelon" institute - http://engine.aviaport.ru/issues/02/page32.html
          Bimetal “blisk”.
          Powder Alloy Disc
          with single crystal alloy blades.
          The impeller of the bimetallic blisk type turbine is a single-crystal blade, a nickel-alloy powder disk connected by hot isostatic pressing.
        2. APASUS
          APASUS 26 November 2013 20: 06
          +1
          Quote: stayer
          . I think that you will not find the appearance of a modern blade, the more promising engine in the internet and other resources

          The internet is full of information. The military are of course clutching, but you can find anything.
          For example, a drawing of a Rolls Royce Trent 900 engine installed on an A380, let's say not quite an old model
          1. stayer
            stayer 27 November 2013 07: 56
            0
            So it is true, but there are no drawings of blades and never will be. Only approximately or schematically, for understanding the process. And from what alloys, casting, cooling, grinding, hardening and other operations you will not find. Or there will be well-known facts from the middle of the last century. Not for nothing that the Chinese can not repeat. They do it only at the level of just the middle of the last century.
        3. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 26 November 2013 23: 34
          0
          Quote: stayer
          Yes, that’s what the scapula looks like. Only in the photo is a very ancient sample from a civil turbine. I think that you will not find the appearance of a modern blade, the more promising engine in the internet and other resources.

          More or less modern:
          ".... The air escaping from the holes in the side of the blades creates a thin film of air that insulates the blade from hot gases (left). The channels leading to the holes have a rather complex geometry (right) ....." http://www.nkj.ru/archive/articles/10706/


          "... A cooling cavity of a complex shape is created in monocrystalline blades. The latest developments in its configuration have made it possible to increase the efficiency of blade cooling by one and a half times ..."
    11. AVV
      AVV 26 November 2013 16: 10
      +2
      We have exclusive technologies !!! Skolkovo and Ros nano have a rest !!!
    12. w.ebdo.g
      w.ebdo.g 26 November 2013 16: 12
      +7
      This is how European democrats lure Ukraine into the EU.
      explaining to her that Russia in no way will be able to close the borders of Ukrainian goods, because Russia will immediately lose:

      Plaster, pebbles, gravel, crushed stone and crushed stone ... belay
      Chocolate and other cocoa-containing foods what
      ferrous metal rods and rods request
      Turbojet engines and aircraft parts lol

      Comrades, Bandera, please do not deprive us of plaster, pebbles and crushed stone, otherwise we have a lot of tension here with stones in Russia !!! crying

      yes they are there in Europe with oak collapsed or what? fool

      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 26 November 2013 16: 22
        +3
        Quote: w.ebdo.g
        yes they are there in Europe with oak collapsed or what?

        For a long time and irrevocably !!!!!! hello Sergey hi
        1. w.ebdo.g
          w.ebdo.g 26 November 2013 16: 32
          +1
          Hello, Sanya !!!)))
          I read your thoughts about Chinese shovels instead of shoulder blades)))))
          I’ve been reading for the fifth time and still fall under the table ... laughing
          thanks, had fun))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) )))
          + 1000!!!

          ps. In Vladik, winter is already winter ???
          something I specifically missed the Egerscheld district ...
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 26 November 2013 17: 18
            +1
            Quote: w.ebdo.g
            ps. Is Vladik quite winter already ??

            What a winter for edren, yesterday all wet came sad And at night, one ice, out.
            Quote: w.ebdo.g
            something I specifically missed the Egerscheld district ...

            Sergei, why are you bored here, the breeze is stormy, 15 minutes and home, the dog can’t stand it anymore laughing
      2. Cherdak
        Cherdak 26 November 2013 17: 03
        +3
        Quote: w.ebdo.g
        how European democrats lure Ukraine into the EU
        1. w.ebdo.g
          w.ebdo.g 26 November 2013 17: 08
          +5
          Meanwhile, in Europe, what is happening is. Chert knows that ...
          European crisis: Greeks infect themselves with HIV for € 700

          Unemployment in Greece remains one of the highest in Europe. Some people in the country intentionally infect themselves with HIV to receive € 700 benefits from EU authorities
          belay
          “People themselves infect themselves in order to receive € 700 payments from the European Union and quick access to substitution treatment programs,” the organization said.
          In addition, the economic crisis provokes an increase in crime, which contributes to an increase in the number of drug addicts and the spread of HIV. The number of murders and thefts during the economic crisis has doubled. In addition, the number of prostitutes has risen sharply in Greece, WHO notes.
          Public access to medical services decreased by 40% due to cuts in the healthcare system. This leads to the fact that the Greeks are less likely to visit doctors. According to EU studies, from 2007 to 2009, residents of the country became 15% less likely to seek medical help.
          The Greek government continues to take steps to reduce the number of workers in the health system. Only in the process of the planned "budget optimization" the country's authorities plan to lay off 26 thousand employees, including more than 9 thousand professional doctors.
          “The situation in Greece should be a warning to other countries that have to reduce the budget deficit, namely for Spain, Ireland and Italy. It’s necessary to find a way to consolidate finances without abandoning the necessary investments in the health sector, ”the WHO report says.

          in a word - prosperous Europe ...
          I think that it’s inappropriately seeking a visa-free entry to Europe. no need to rush ...
          1. Basarev
            Basarev 26 November 2013 21: 11
            +2
            Excellent! Soviet prophecies about the imminent collapse of the West are beginning to come true!
    13. w.ebdo.g
      w.ebdo.g 26 November 2013 18: 46
      +5
      detention of hachets who supplied money to the Wahhabi underground in Moscow
      grandmothers there are not measured ...

      1. imrek_ua
        imrek_ua 30 November 2013 20: 56
        0
        And when the money was stacked back, the package turned out less. No?
    14. w.ebdo.g
      w.ebdo.g 26 November 2013 19: 06
      +8
      Americans about Russian)))

    15. Lyokhin63
      Lyokhin63 26 November 2013 20: 01
      +2
      Already about twenty years ago, in an introductory practice at the SNTK them. Kuznetsova held in his hands the blade of the first stage of the theater of the NK-93 engine. Not pretty? NO! Piece of art! That's where nanotechnology is.
    16. Basarev
      Basarev 26 November 2013 20: 45
      -12 qualifying.
      I don’t quite understand something — why does the jet fighter need any blades? There are no blades in the engines of the Protons. And there is no difference between the Proton engine and the PAK FA
      1. w.ebdo.g
        w.ebdo.g 26 November 2013 21: 48
        +4
        Basarev, are you out of your mind? wink
        learn materiel ...
        At least in Yandex, type and read a couple of requests.
        The Russian alphabet took place at school?

      2. atalef
        atalef 26 November 2013 22: 06
        +7
        Quote: Basarev
        I don’t quite understand something — why does the jet fighter need any blades? There are no blades in the engines of the Protons. And there is no difference between the Proton engine and the PAK FA

        Yes, the country is waiting for scientists ... giving birth to ...
      3. APASUS
        APASUS 27 November 2013 19: 26
        0
        Quote: Basarev
        there is no difference between the proton engine and the PAK FA

        This is the knowledge of man!
        Lived far from school?
    17. Megatron
      Megatron 26 November 2013 23: 15
      +2
      We in St. Petersburg, on Sedov, had a plant of turbine blades, and now there is some kind of shopping center and AUCHAN with grub. It's a shame !!
    18. gridasov
      gridasov 28 November 2013 20: 24
      0
      Oversupply in the wrong direction of engine development. You will forever modernized the scapula, and the results are on the verge of critical achievements. The issue must be resolved radically in a new way. Change the flow of hydrodynamic flow in an alternating magnetic field. Everything is simpler and orders of magnitude more efficient. Toda, all cavitation processes will occur not on the plane of the scapula, but on their radial end. And the same energy as potential can be further converted into a new algorithm of magnetic interactions.
  2. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 26 November 2013 12: 00
    11
    Yes, for these technologies, the Chinese would give everyone sneakers for free! They probably come with saliva ...
  3. wolf1945
    wolf1945 26 November 2013 12: 10
    +8
    Looks not all ditched and plundered in Russia! Glory to the Ufa plant! soldier
    1. ytqnhfk
      ytqnhfk 26 November 2013 12: 21
      +9
      Not only does the factory mean new blades and the designer worked smart people, too, have not yet transferred! A few years ago, the Izhora plant developed a metal alloy that produces only 5 countries! The development was carried out for almost 15 years
      1. bomg.77
        bomg.77 26 November 2013 12: 43
        0
        Quote: ytqnhfk
        Izhora plant has developed a metal alloy that produces only 5 countries! Development was carried out for almost 15 years
        What is the alloy called?
        bully
        1. ytqnhfk
          ytqnhfk 26 November 2013 13: 07
          +2
          "Atomic Steel" I don’t remember thoroughly about 3 years ago on the media rattled!
      2. Asgard
        Asgard 26 November 2013 12: 49
        27
        Yes, there is a wire, with human hair, can hold several tons ...
        Once upon a time (in Soviet times)) at VDNH, a concrete slab in the air hung on them.
        I have a hand saw-noose, three metal braided in a braid-hair less than a millimeter in diameter with handles, in a few movements they easily cut a 70-year-old tree ....
        They told me that they saw both iron and concrete, but I'm on the shore))))
        USSR legacy, after all, only "aliens" can do this in Ufa)))))
        1. bomg.77
          bomg.77 26 November 2013 13: 47
          +4
          Quote: Asgard
          I have a hand saw-noose, three metal braided in a braid-hair less than a millimeter in diameter with
          Asgard, is this one sold in stores or is it a special order?
          1. atalef
            atalef 26 November 2013 13: 54
            +4
            Quote: bomg.77
            Quote: Asgard
            I have a hand saw-noose, three metal braided in a braid-hair less than a millimeter in diameter with
            Asgard, is this one sold in stores or is it a special order?

            Medical probably sawing such a bone
            1. Ascetic
              Ascetic 26 November 2013 14: 25
              +7
              Quote: atalef
              Medical probably sawing such a bone


              Rather, the seams are laid with a thin steel wire. The bones are sawed with a traditional saw in the form of a hacksaw for metal or circular. At number 10 on the link
              Orthopedic Instrumentation
              1. atalef
                atalef 26 November 2013 14: 32
                +1
                [quote = Ascetic]
                Still used
                I meant this one
                http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B0_%D0%94%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%BB%D
                1% 8C% D0% B8
              2. bomg.77
                bomg.77 26 November 2013 14: 44
                +4
                The ascetic found the saw "Gigli" by reference. I just don't know about her. Asgard says.
            2. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 26 November 2013 14: 43
              +6
              Quote: atalef

              Medical probably sawing such a bone

              Quote: Ascetic
              Rather, sutures impose a thin steel wire

              In short, we have a maniac on the site laughing
              1. atalef
                atalef 26 November 2013 14: 54
                +4
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                Quote: atalef

                Medical probably sawing such a bone

                Quote: Ascetic
                Rather, sutures impose a thin steel wire

                In short, we have a maniac on the site laughing

                Saw Peel (1234567), about him, or what?
                Asgard (2) Today, 14: 37 ↑
                Inherited

                Dad Chikatilo? belay )))
                1. Alexander Romanov
                  Alexander Romanov 26 November 2013 15: 32
                  +1
                  Quote: atalef
                  Dad Chikatilo?

                  So Asgard admitted
                  Quote: Asgard
                  In the inheritance)))

                  So to speak, the family tradition laughing
              2. pensioner
                pensioner 26 November 2013 17: 48
                +3
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                In short, we have a maniac on the site

                Why is this? Just a friend of the surgeon ...
          2. Asgard
            Asgard 26 November 2013 14: 37
            17
            In the inheritance)))
            I was searching, in the 90, I had one at the Paton Welding Institute in Kiev, I arrived, but already sold, some Jews were ahead of me)))))
            But I never found out where it was produced ... In the 90s everything was sold, money was a "shaft", but there was no Internet))))

            There is something like that - it’s called a saboteur’s saw, but it’s just a piece of iron, I didn’t keep it a little, it rusts, bursts, saws for a long and tedious ....
            I have a dry one (initially lubricated, cut my hands, then threw it, just rubbed it and that's it))))), weight with handles is 50 grams, I have owned it for 20 years, dumped 50 cubes of wood (already for sure)) to the reflection brass gleam gives, the wire in the handles is sealed and a little springy, I’m a neat guy, but once I wound up on a snowmobile goose and jammed the course, breaking everything that was possible)))) I had to move 30 km in the snow for a new goose and ice rink ....
            And this "reptile" is like new)))))) because Soviet))))
            1. atalef
              atalef 26 November 2013 14: 41
              +1
              Quote: Asgard
              In the inheritance)))
              I was searching, in the 90, I had one at the Paton Welding Institute in Kiev, I arrived, but already sold, some Jews were ahead of me)))))
              But he didn’t find out)))

              Since then, have you had such love for Jews?
              I’m telling you, an ordinary medical doctor, I saw those, I had to go to the morgue, and not to the Paton Institute
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 26 November 2013 15: 01
                12
                Quote: atalef
                it was necessary to go to the morgue, and not to the Paton Institute

                Well, he took it and sent a man. laughing they don’t use such ones in the morgue, there are not demanding clients on the quality of the instrument. wassat
                1. atalef
                  atalef 26 November 2013 15: 06
                  0
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  Quote: atalef
                  it was necessary to go to the morgue, and not to the Paton Institute

                  In my memory, no one has been sent yet. lol they don’t use such ones in the morgue, there are not demanding clients on the quality of the instrument. wassat

                  We’ll all be there, and surgeons, up to the clients ’claims for quality, are on the drum; she’s most comfortable doing the same trepanation, so we’ll try it sometime by our mothers and we won’t be able to complain crying
                  probably the quality of your saw is explained by its medical origin
              2. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 26 November 2013 15: 33
                +2
                Quote: atalef
                , I had to go to the morgue

                And why go to the morgue with a saw, everything is already dead there, but the institute has it, there is someone to cut laughing
                1. atalef
                  atalef 26 November 2013 15: 41
                  +4
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Quote: atalef
                  , I had to go to the morgue

                  And why go to the morgue with a saw, everything is already dead there, but the institute has it, there is someone to cut laughing

                  Well, they go to the hospital with their medicines, why not go to the morgue with your saw? wassat
                  1. Alexander Romanov
                    Alexander Romanov 26 November 2013 16: 23
                    +2
                    Quote: atalef
                    why not go to the morgue with your saw?

                    Sanya, I don’t like the topic, I don’t even know why laughing
                    1. atalef
                      atalef 26 November 2013 16: 36
                      0
                      Quote: Alexander Romanov
                      Quote: atalef
                      why not go to the morgue with your saw?

                      Sanya, I don’t like the topic, I don’t even know why laughing

                      The same to me, well, tell me, why the heck do I spend money on a saw?
              3. bomg.77
                bomg.77 26 November 2013 15: 36
                +2
                Quote: atalef
                I tell you, ordinary medical,
                Yes medical. The "Gigli" saw is used for hard-to-reach bones.
              4. Ascetic
                Ascetic 26 November 2013 17: 20
                +4
                Quote: atalef
                it was necessary to go to the morgue, and not to the Paton Institute


                In Morgue, they are generally sawing a grinder.

                Sanitar_morga


                Guys !!
                I'll be honest. Believe it or not. Personally, I don't need any electrician. I am so used to working with an ordinary hand-held sheet hacksaw. The main thing is that the tool is always well sharpened. But there are no problems with this - for this we have a household in the court. the part where a locksmith for a half liter of alcohol will sharpen the entire section set every day. : D And I still have enough free alcohol (pah-pah B)) ...
                Yes, of course, for a novice-orderly "hand" hacksaw is an everyday torment. I know this very well, because I myself went through it. But over time, skill, experience, and dexterity appear. And cranial bones of any thickness have long been no problem for me.
                1. Ingvar 72
                  Ingvar 72 26 November 2013 18: 26
                  +2
                  Quote: Ascetic
                  In Morgue, they are generally sawing a grinder.

                  What a gloomy day it turned out today ... laughing And the table of contents of the article did not portend anything sinister ....
                  1. atalef
                    atalef 26 November 2013 19: 03
                    +3
                    Quote: Ingvar 72
                    Quote: Ascetic
                    In Morgue, they are generally sawing a grinder.

                    What a gloomy day it turned out today ... laughing And the table of contents of the article did not portend anything sinister ....

                    Yes, who would have thought that an innocent saw comment would make it so scary to die wassat
                2. atalef
                  atalef 26 November 2013 19: 02
                  0
                  [quote = Ascetic] [quote = atalef] it was necessary to go to the morgue, and not to the Paton Institute [/ quote]

                  In Morgue, they are generally sawing a grinder.

                  [/ quote] [/ quote]
                  Scribe, killed belay
                  1. igor67
                    igor67 26 November 2013 20: 45
                    0
                    [quote = atalef] [quote = ascetic] [quote = atalef] it was necessary to go to the morgue, and not to the Paton Institute [/ quote]

                    In Morgue, they are generally sawing a grinder.

                    [/ quote] [/ quote]
                    Scribe, killed belay[/ Quote]
                    The Bulgarian, as I recall, is because the first were produced in Bulgaria, laughing like bell pepper, my neighbor had an operation to replace a joint, he said there was an ordinary "grinder", though made by Bosch wassat , now afraid to change the second joint. And on the topic I collected the NK 12 engine, I just found out recently that on the Royce engines in 60 years the thermocouple was in the blades, and not how we screwed it into the turbine crankcase
                    1. atalef
                      atalef 26 November 2013 21: 00
                      0
                      Quote: igor67
                      In Morgue, they are generally sawing a grinder.

                      Igoryanitch, hello. here is a complete tin today, it seems to have begun so beautifully

                      Quote: Asgard
                      I have a hand saw-noose, three metal braided in a braid-hair less than a millimeter in diameter with handles, in a few movements they easily cut a 70-year-old tree ....

                      Damn it ended

                      Quote: Ascetic
                      In Morgue, they are generally sawing a grinder.

                      Quote: Alexander Romanov
                      Yes you are all maniacs here

                      Quote: Alexander Romanov
                      Sanya, I don’t like the topic, I don’t even know why

                      Quote: atalef
                      Dad Chikatilo? )))

                      I just don’t know, it’s scary to fall asleep wassat
                      1. igor67
                        igor67 26 November 2013 21: 12
                        -1
                        Quote: atalef
                        Quote: igor67
                        In Morgue, they are generally sawing a grinder.

                        Igoryanitch, hello. here is a complete tin today, it seems to have begun so beautifully

                        Quote: Asgard
                        I have a hand saw-noose, three metal braided in a braid-hair less than a millimeter in diameter with handles, in a few movements they easily cut a 70-year-old tree ....

                        Damn it ended

                        Quote: Ascetic
                        In Morgue, they are generally sawing a grinder.

                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        Yes you are all maniacs here

                        Quote: Alexander Romanov
                        Sanya, I don’t like the topic, I don’t even know why

                        Quote: atalef
                        Dad Chikatilo? )))

                        I just don’t know, it’s scary to fall asleep wassat

                        Come on 50 grams?
                      2. atalef
                        atalef 26 November 2013 21: 19
                        0
                        Quote: igor67
                        Come on 50 grams?

                        Get out on Skype. Hanukkah today !!!!! drinks
            2. Kuzkin Batyan
              Kuzkin Batyan 27 November 2013 06: 28
              +1
              You are probably talking about this here. Saw in the form of a wire. A creepy video, but on your topic from 5:45 minutes, somber.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73X2GuqcHLw
          3. velikoros-xnumx
            velikoros-xnumx 26 November 2013 15: 08
            +2
            Quote: Asgard
            And this "reptile" is like new)))))) because the Soviet))))

            laughing good
            1. atalef
              atalef 26 November 2013 15: 16
              +4
              Quote: velikoros-xnumx
              Quote: Asgard
              And this "reptile" is like new)))))) because the Soviet))))

              laughing good

              The amount does not change from a change in the places of the terms
              As a result, we get
              Soviet New Gadina - (CIS) so we will call your saw belay
              CIS - sawing - so you will believe in the relocation of souls
          4. bomg.77
            bomg.77 26 November 2013 15: 31
            +3
            Quote: Asgard
            some Jews were ahead)))))
            Wow, they are))) laughing
            Quote: Asgard
            There is something like that - it’s called a saboteur’s saw, but there it’s just a piece of iron, I didn’t follow it a little, it rusts, it bursts
            He took an interest and got to the forum, they say they’re cutting a leg at the hip with a bone in 10 seconds, not to mention the neck wassat Looks like
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 26 November 2013 16: 26
              +4
              Quote: bomg.77
              they say a leg at the thigh with a bone in 10 seconds is sawed not to mention the neck

              Yes you are all maniacs here lol
              1. bomg.77
                bomg.77 26 November 2013 17: 05
                +5
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                Yes you are all maniacs here
                Alexander, I’m fucked up by what they discuss there !!! Either Natsik were on this forum, or specialists, I still did not understand until the end. That's what they write "Pan Raskolnikov, thank you for the exile, but ask yourself - if you try to use a stranglehold (FSUs in what situation) - where is your consciousness?
                Yeah ... that's why the noose will steer only against the sucker, stupid, who can be sent to Morpheus with his bare hands.
                And any person in the subject will deprive you of either heirs or the joy of contemplating the color of tulips, and you will only have to bitterly cut the fly.
                P.S. strangulation in real life used, a little. Without previous trenki - cautiously shopper. The body in the hands just in a second turns into a flowing sack of shit, and treason pounds immensely.
                You stand to bleat and think - is it alive? " belay
            2. Asgard
              Asgard 26 November 2013 16: 56
              +5
              You guys look funny! Well done, do not lose heart)))
              So you adequately evaluate the jokes, I will tell the Jews separately) I used it in the expectation of a "reaction" and of course I joked))))

              Quote: bomg.77
              Looks like

              Very similar, but not her, I tried to take a picture (a long time ago)) - only the handles are visible))) the thickness of all three strings is somewhere about, 1mm or less, I cut my hands several times when I untangled it))
              A tree with a diameter of 40 cm is sawn in seconds 10 ...
              I have a familiar surgeon in Chup (friends)) showed similar "devices" But it's cooler ...
              Hello everyone, special Jews)))))
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 26 November 2013 17: 14
                +1
                Quote: Asgard
                , I will tell the Jews separately)

                And where are the Jews?
              2. bomg.77
                bomg.77 26 November 2013 17: 36
                +3
                Quote: Asgard
                I have a familiar surgeon in Chup (friends)) showed similar "devices" But it's cooler ...
                So this is exclusive.
                Quote: Asgard
                A tree with a diameter of 40 cm is sawn in seconds 10 ...

                My chainsaw and then saws longer recourse
          5. ATATA
            ATATA 26 November 2013 17: 37
            +5
            Somewhere in the mountains of the United States they found a hammer, he is 140 lyam years. He is the same Soviet! laughing
            United States of America. Here in 1934, in a mountain range, not far from the Texas city of London, archaeologists discovered an amazing object. It was an ordinary hammer, which literally grew into limestone. But the age of the rock is about 140 million years.

            No one can explain, but they say they made it in the ancient USSR.
            The topic is real.
            ps The purity of the hammer alloy on the ground has not yet been replicated. hi
            ps.sp.s Conclusion. Russians (Ugrotataromongols) aliens! On this fight in Ukraine against joining the EU is uselesslaughing
            PPSPPSP with the first Omerika colonizers were Ugrotatomongols.
            ps.s.p.p.s.p.s laughing
            1. Alexander Romanov
              Alexander Romanov 26 November 2013 17: 49
              +4
              Quote: ATATA
              No one can explain, but they say they made it in the ancient USSR.

              The answer is a simple-time machine wink
              1. ATATA
                ATATA 26 November 2013 17: 58
                +7
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                The answer is a simple-time machine

                Anecdote:
                They ask a khachik (sorry you won’t erase words from a fairy tale).
                -What would you do if you had a time machine?
                “I would toned her.” drinks
                ps This is no offense, just irony. hi
              2. Bad_gr
                Bad_gr 26 November 2013 23: 59
                +3
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                The answer is a simple-time machine

                So I imagined it: a time machine, and in a carriage people with pickaxes, shovels, crowbars for the Sabbath in the Darkness of Tarakan 140 million years ago. Migrant workers, in general.
          6. pensioner
            pensioner 26 November 2013 17: 53
            +3
            Quote: Asgard
            the brass reflection gives

            Can a residence permit alloy? It really looks bronzed, has springy properties, Young's modulus is close to tungsten, i.e. awesome.
          7. Andrey Yuryevich
            Andrey Yuryevich 27 November 2013 06: 01
            +2
            my friend and I have the same "hacksaws", we raft with them, and indeed always with us in the forest and on the river, how I got to me personally, I don't remember ... also twenty years ago, or even more ... the reflection is exactly yellowish-brass, it does not dull - the aluminum tube was sawed once. A friend considers it to be "spetsnaz". good
  • akreworpa
    akreworpa 26 November 2013 12: 18
    +2
    Most recently, some kind of comrade was on the forum shouting something terrible about shoulder blades.
    1. rolik
      rolik 26 November 2013 12: 30
      20
      Quote: akreworpa
      Most recently, some kind of comrade was on the forum shouting something terrible about shoulder blades.

      On this I grappled with one "connoisseur" of the EPR area. Then the conversation turned to the shoulder blades, how they shine on the radars. Here is my answer to the nonsense of this expert)))))
      Forgot to add. About the shoulder blades. Why the material was so named, you need to apply to the Ufa Engine-Building Production Association. There they will tell you everything, show you, but most likely, they will not let me go further than the entrance.
      The intermetallic compound is obtained by alloying titanium and aluminum. The second name of the material sounds like that - titanium aluminide.
      Only the blades are not cast, they are grown.
      And do not ask in which garden they grow. I will not say - this is the most important military secret. And the location of this garden is strictly classified

      The topic of new materials, for me, is always a living topic)))) Because as I work in the Seva, I pass through all the materials that go to the construction of boats and other products. We check everything, up to Aleks and the smallest shaebochek))))))) Forgot to mention in the article that these blades are also covered with ceramics on top)))))))
      1. ytqnhfk
        ytqnhfk 26 November 2013 12: 37
        +2
        Thanks for the info, I don’t know much about this, but I know that the process is not a 3D printer and never will be!
      2. Nayhas
        Nayhas 26 November 2013 12: 59
        +1
        Quote: rolik
        Forgot to mention in the article that these blades are also covered with ceramics on top)))))))

        Do Ufa residents work on domestic equipment?
        1. rolik
          rolik 26 November 2013 13: 02
          11
          Quote: Nayhas
          Do Ufa residents work on domestic equipment?

          Honestly, I don’t know. I only know about the material. Because there is such a thought, they want to try it on one of our (future) products. I’m working in Seva))))))
          But only ours know the technology for growing turbine blades. Mattresses came from Boeing, they intend to order shovels from us for their civilian vessels. They do not have such technology, and our blades are better at all characteristics. So, I think, the decisive equipment, nevertheless, is our production.
          1. Nayhas
            Nayhas 26 November 2013 13: 27
            +1
            Quote: rolik
            Mattresses came from Boeing, they intend to order shovels from us for their civilian vessels. They do not have such technology, and our blades are better at all characteristics. So, I think, the decisive equipment, nevertheless, is our production.

            Those. American industry in general can not? And then the news came from China, they say that:
            “After 20 years of research, the State Laboratory of Advanced Metals and Materials has achieved the creation of a new type of high-strength heat-resistant material based on an alloy of niobium, titanium and aluminum. Significantly reduce the weight of aircraft engines According to reports, the niobium-titanium-aluminum alloy will usher in a new era in the development of aerospace technology, ships, and will be used in the automotive industry and other industries.The ability of the alloy based on niobium, titanium and aluminum to withstand ultra-high temperatures will increase thrust and at the same time reduce the weight of the power plant, which is very important for the development of China's aviation industry. "
            It is doubtful that the Chinese are lying, too loud a statement. The question is if ours and the Chinese can, then could Europeans and Americans really not be able to do this, since they ate something in the creation of the dog’s aircraft engines that the Koreans envy ...?
            1. Rus2012
              Rus2012 26 November 2013 14: 00
              +4
              Quote: Nayhas
              It is doubtful that the Chinese are lying, too loud a statement. The question is if ours and the Chinese can, then could Europeans and Americans really not be able to do this, since they ate something in the creation of the dog’s aircraft engines that the Koreans envy ...?


              As for the amers, they did without it in due time. Niche is missing. They are also excellent marketing experts and understand that it’s better to buy than to raise from scratch. They order a lot from us. Of titanium, for example ...

              And the Chinese are HZ, but prototypes are one thing, the implementation and serial production are quite another. Well, the main question is about the same processing technology ... With ceramics there have always been problems with adherence to foreign materials ...
              1. Nayhas
                Nayhas 26 November 2013 14: 16
                +1
                Quote: Rus2012
                They are also excellent marketing experts and understand that it’s better to buy than to raise from scratch. They order a lot from us. Of titanium, for example ...

                Well, here is a moot point. To buy something is not very important, yes. But here the question lies in a slightly different plane. The use of such alloys is an increase at times in the characteristics of not only aircraft engines used in civilian aircraft. The importance of such alloys is strategic, to become dependent on Russia or China in such a matter threatens some sort of proceedings in Congress ...
                1. Rus2012
                  Rus2012 26 November 2013 18: 49
                  +1
                  Quote: Nayhas
                  to get dependent on Russia or China in such a matter threatens some sort of proceedings in Congress ...


                  It all depends on where the materials and products go. If there are no problems with commercial aircraft, they have collected more than half of components and REI from around the world. And if for military aviation, there is a requirement - there must be its own analogue. By the way, we also have the same rules ...
              2. ssergn
                ssergn 26 November 2013 14: 59
                +3
                Take an interest in VSMPO-Avisma, how many titanium products they supply to Boeing.
              3. Cherdak
                Cherdak 26 November 2013 16: 01
                +1
                Quote: Rus2012
                And the Chinese - HZ



                Here is also doubtful something. Reminds us of the Great Leap Forward, an attempt to solve China's economic problems through mass enthusiasm
            2. rolik
              rolik 26 November 2013 19: 24
              +4
              Quote: Nayhas
              It is doubtful that the Chinese are lying, too loud a statement

              As my aunt said - Lies)))) They do not have a culture of working with titanium, such as ours. Even in spite of some used technologies that ours (to beat for it) were leaked to them. And the tangent to this "secret" alloy, here is infa and it is not secret)))))))
              The invention relates to the field of metallurgy, in particular to alloys based on titanium aluminide, manufactured using casting technology or powder metallurgy. The alloy contains titanium, aluminum, niobium with a niobium content in the range of 5 × xxAt% and carbon in an amount of less than 2203339 at%. The technical result of the invention is to increase the heat resistance of the alloy , which will allow the use of the alloy as a replacement for nickel-based alloys. 220333910 s P. f-ly, 0,5 ill.
              To further increase the strength of the alloy, it is preferable to add carbon and boron components to the alloy of titanium, aluminum and niobium, due to which, in addition, the aluminum content in the alloy can be 45 at.%.
              An advantage of the solution according to the invention is that, as the tests show, a significantly higher strength can be achieved in the temperature range up to 900 ° C and higher, that is, at such operating temperatures to which the alloy according to the invention is exposed, namely compared to previously known alloys based on the mixtures of titanium aluminide used so far.
              Another significant advantage created by the proposed solution according to the invention is that the oxidation resistance of the alloy is significantly greater compared to the hitherto known alloying mixtures of the type mentioned in the restrictive part of the claims, that is, in total, the alloys proposed according to the alloy is suitable for other additional applications, for example, for use in high-performance turbines for jet engines in civilian and military aircraft.
              Here's something like this)))))) Punchinel's secret))))))) The authors of this "Chinese" invention (drum roll) ...... Chigrin Yu.L., Vasin V.V., Konakov A. V., Dovgal O. V. Patent holder Closed Joint Stock Company "Far Eastern Technology". Filing an application:
              26.06.2001/26.06.2001/27.04.2003, the beginning of the patent: XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX, publication of the patent: XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX. It's time for the children of Huang He to present the bill)))))
              1. Nayhas
                Nayhas 26 November 2013 21: 19
                0
                Quote: rolik
                It's time for the children of Huang He to present the bill)))))

                Those. The Chinese have achieved results on the topic of which for more than 10 years, and not developed by them? Then the question is:
                1. Rafting, which became the topic of this article, roughly speaking, is better than what the Chinese have achieved?
                2. If this is our development (in the sense that the Chinese used it), then did we use these alloys in the manufacture of aircraft engines? Or went on the principle of the best enemy of the good?
                3. Europe and the USA are far from lagging countries in the field of engine building, you will probably agree that it is difficult to equate companies like Pratt & Whitney, General Electric, Rolls-Royce, SNECMA to Chinese. Can it now be said that they have no such developments and that the titanium-aluminum alloy is an exclusive to Russia?
                1. rolik
                  rolik 26 November 2013 22: 14
                  +3
                  Quote: Nayhas
                  1. Rafting, which became the topic of this article, roughly speaking, is better than what the Chinese have achieved?
                  2. If this is our development (in the sense that the Chinese used it), then did we use these alloys in the manufacture of aircraft engines? Or went on the principle of the best enemy of the good?
                  3. Europe and the USA are far from lagging countries in the field of engine building, you will probably agree that it is difficult to equate companies like Pratt & Whitney, General Electric, Rolls-Royce, SNECMA to Chinese. Can it now be said that they have no such developments and that the titanium-aluminum alloy is an exclusive to Russia?

                  On the issue of alloy quality. You did not provide data on the Chinese alloy, what percentage of components in it. Therefore, talking about whose alloy is better is pointless. I gave an example, mind you, the alloy for which the patent was obtained. keyword patent i.e. This material was actually made and tested and patented 12 years ago. This is an indisputable fact. I will say a little more, without giving out any secret))))). Along with the main components of the alloy of titanium, aluminum and niobium, in order to increase the strength at high operating temperatures of parts made of alloys, i.e. up to 900 ° C, boron and / or carbon can be added in an amount of less than 0,5 at.%. And that was the previous generation of materials. Now the gas temperature in front of the turbine barely reaches 1950 K, and in new engines it will reach 2000-2200K (1927oС). High-temperature alloys have been developed for them, containing up to fifteen elements of the periodic table, including rhenium and ruthenium, and heat-protective coatings, which include nickel, chromium, aluminum and yttrium, ceramic made of zirconium oxide stabilized with yttrium oxide.
                  Let’s say softer here, these alloys are improved, plus, as I said, the use of ceramic coating.
                  If the mattress technology was better, they would not come to us))))) But the titanium-aluminum alloy is, of course, not exclusive. Exclusive alloys made on its basis.
                  1. pensioner
                    pensioner 26 November 2013 23: 24
                    +1
                    Quote: rolik
                    high-temperature alloys containing up to fifteen elements of the periodic table

                    In the mid-80s, I had a chance to touch the topic of ZhSs. A little - I measured the density of melts from Melting to 2200 according to C. I remember: continuous empiricism and no science. Stupidly, various elements in various concentrations were added to the already known composition. Then they tested in VIAM. Interesting: in our time there is some kind of scientific approach to development. Well, like: is it possible to predict the properties of the alloy theoretically? But there were more elements. I remember, until 17. I understand that I’ve got into a topic, .. But still, Roman. If it’s not difficult, then in a word ... I just forgot about it, and here you reminded ...
                    1. rolik
                      rolik 27 November 2013 12: 03
                      +1
                      Quote: retired
                      . Then they tested in VIAM.

                      everything is correct, now VIAM is working in close contact with TsIAM. Some brains complement others. And the preparation of new formulas takes place as before on the knee)))))) No, I do not argue, there are mathematical models of interaction at the atomic level of various materials. But these are only models, in real life, when connecting simulated components, the expected does not always work out. So, basically, these are experiments on sort of adding one to the other and pouring in a third substance, and it’ll turn out to look cheat)))) Although it’s much easier now, there are tried and tested models of blanks, so to speak, the foundation on which other components are planted.
                      1. pensioner
                        pensioner 27 November 2013 18: 29
                        0
                        Thank you Roman! hi hi hi
                      2. gridasov
                        gridasov 28 November 2013 20: 38
                        0
                        It is absolutely true that there is no mathematical model of modeling, not that of multicomponent materials, but about the modeling of dynamic processes and the transformation of matter, it’s similar. Until there is such a mathematical model, everyone will stagnate.
                        For example, we created the concept of radial computing and experimented with screws. That is, mathematically modeled all the cumulative processes occurring not only in each component of the process, but also group and complex interactions. Note that the model must comply with a one-time accounting of all changes and transformations. The conclusion is that it is possible and not very difficult to create such a device that will not have all the flaws that are on the screw, and accordingly on the turbine. And the main disadvantage of modern devices is the very low limits of non-destructive rotation. These boundaries can be theoretically and obviously almost completely removed. But this is for specialists.
              2. Nayhas
                Nayhas 26 November 2013 21: 21
                0
                Quote: rolik
                It's time for the children of Huang He to present the bill)))))

                Those. The Chinese have achieved results on the topic of which for more than 10 years, and not developed by them? Then the question is:
                1. Rafting, which became the topic of this article, roughly speaking, is better than what the Chinese have achieved?
                2. If this is our development (in the sense that the Chinese used it), then did we use these alloys in the manufacture of aircraft engines? Or went on the principle of the best enemy of the good?
                3. Europe and the USA are far from lagging countries in the field of engine building, you will probably agree that it is difficult to equate companies like Pratt & Whitney, General Electric, Rolls-Royce, SNECMA to Chinese. Can it now be said that they have no such developments and that the titanium-aluminum alloy is an exclusive to Russia?
            3. luiswoo
              luiswoo 26 November 2013 22: 17
              0
              Quote: Nayhas
              Those. American industry in general can not?

              Rolls-Royce can, so at a minimum, we can assume that they can.
        2. kaktus
          kaktus 26 November 2013 15: 30
          +2
          Basically, and not only on the new good
        3. ben gun
          ben gun 26 November 2013 16: 01
          +2
          They work on everyone, part of the machine tools from Sterlitamak machine-tool building, part German, some Japanese, some bolts, nuts and all sorts of shiutsers are still cut by Soviet 16K20 laughing .
          In my third-year practice, I saw in the UMPO workshop an installation for measuring holes and their relative position on engine parts using a laser, and then I got it from accuracy.
      3. evil hamster
        evil hamster 26 November 2013 14: 08
        +2
        To be fair, turbine blades are "grown", and here we are talking about compressor blades. Although I do not know exactly whether they pour them in the direct sense of the word or "grow" "pull". But since we are talking about a low-pressure compressor for PD 14, then most likely we are talking about casting.
        1. Rus2012
          Rus2012 26 November 2013 18: 58
          0
          Quote: evil hamster
          But since we are talking about a low-pressure compressor for PD 14, then most likely we are talking about casting.

          they write in the text -
          Casting titanium aluminide blades is a critical technology ...

          The joint development of UMPO and MISiS applies this casting method to create high-pressure compressor blades of a promising engine for PAK FA (T-50 fighter) и low pressure turbine blades for the prospective PD-14 civil engine.
      4. Cherdak
        Cherdak 26 November 2013 15: 52
        +2
        Quote: rolik
        these vanes are also covered with ceramics
      5. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 27 November 2013 00: 07
        0
        Quote: rolik
        ... Only the shoulder blades are not cast, they are grown ...

        I read that in the future there will be not a blade from a single crystal, but a disk with all the blades.

        Americans do the same from single crystals, but the technology for growing them is completely different.
  • Ivan Pomidorov
    Ivan Pomidorov 26 November 2013 12: 20
    +2
    Quote: makarov
    And no 3D printer


    Not at all !!! This is precisely the best application for a 3D printer.
    For the manufacture of injection molds or product models.
    Instead of laborious, expensive and long milling on a 5-axis machining center.
    1. ytqnhfk
      ytqnhfk 26 November 2013 12: 26
      +2
      It’s not going to be alloyed there. It’s not so easy to make it, and the shape will probably not work.
    2. makarov
      makarov 26 November 2013 12: 48
      0
      This is no longer for me. Refer to the International Industrial Exhibition "Metal-Expo-2013", maybe 3D printer and its creators will be awarded.
  • kafa
    kafa 26 November 2013 12: 21
    +4
    on the old engines of the MIGs of the Korean war I heard in the shoulder blades a maze of cooling channels winked
    1. Bort radist
      Bort radist 26 November 2013 14: 24
      +2
      Quote: kafa
      heard in the shoulder blades a whole maze of cooling channels was

      Not long ago I watched a documentary film. Inside each blade, the net is the thinnest and coolant circulates through it. Without cooling, the alloy melts. I can’t even imagine how this is done !!!
      1. Bort radist
        Bort radist 26 November 2013 14: 34
        +6
        Here about the engine and a little about the blades.
  • VADEL
    VADEL 26 November 2013 12: 31
    +1
    One can rejoice until Serdyukovich got comfortable there.
    1. rolik
      rolik 26 November 2013 12: 43
      +4
      Quote: VADEL
      One can rejoice until Serdyukovich got comfortable there.

      like infa from the UK passed that stools are transferred to the category of suspects. And this is a little different than a witness.
    2. ssergn
      ssergn 26 November 2013 15: 02
      +3
      Well, why .... Are you talking about this again? No matter how the topic - so about Serdyukov.
  • REDBLUE
    REDBLUE 26 November 2013 12: 52
    -1
    Only we and Michael Jackson have such a blade.
  • bomg.77
    bomg.77 26 November 2013 12: 52
    +2
    UMPO and MISiS University were awarded a silver medal for a new blade manufacturing technology
    If they got silver for that, then who got the gold they invented!
    1. rolik
      rolik 26 November 2013 13: 07
      +2
      Quote: bomg.77
      If they got silver for that, then who got the gold they invented!

      Gold was received by someone who learned to apply ceramics to this blade so as not to peel off))))))) joke))))))
      1. Botanologist
        Botanologist 26 November 2013 14: 59
        +3
        Quote: rolik
        Gold was received by someone who learned to apply ceramics to this blade so as not to peel off)


        I'm afraid that, according to tradition, Chubais received gold, who came up with a way to nano-polish the air intakes ... or something no less nano - necessary crying
    2. ytqnhfk
      ytqnhfk 26 November 2013 13: 09
      +2
      This info is not for simple ears!
      1. bomg.77
        bomg.77 26 November 2013 13: 38
        +1
        Quote: ytqnhfk
        This info is not for simple ears!
        bully Clear hi
  • i.xxx-1971
    i.xxx-1971 26 November 2013 13: 23
    0
    And who then received the gold medal?
  • gladysheff2010
    gladysheff2010 26 November 2013 13: 49
    +2
    Joyful! We will be able to know the engines for the T-50 soon. Another splinter in the grabbing paw of a star-striped beast. You look, it will jump smaller and lower.
  • vikov
    vikov 26 November 2013 13: 55
    +2
    Quote: ytqnhfk
    Thanks for the info, I don’t know much about this, but I know that the process is not a 3D printer and never will be!


    It will be, the blade is an aerodynamic profile, where it is very important, in addition to any cooling troubles, to withstand the twist angles of the profile itself, growing an expensive process.
    1. Rus2012
      Rus2012 26 November 2013 19: 10
      0
      Quote: vikov
      It will be, the blade is an aerodynamic profile, where it is very important, in addition to any cooling troubles, to withstand the twist angles of the profile itself, growing an expensive process.


      here ...
      dear colleagues, a 3D printer is one thing, but besides that, it is also required to give the blade body certain mechanical properties under certain specially set conditions (temperature, pressure, environment ...). I'm not quite sure that a monocrystalline structure can be "printed" by a 3D printer ... And a figure cast in a certain way.
      And so, yes, blade models, shape models - quite ...
      In any case - bye;)))
    2. gridasov
      gridasov 28 November 2013 20: 52
      0
      An uncooled blade is simply made and the temperature regime in the combustion chamber rises to ... by orders of magnitude. The concept of such a process has been developed. Awaiting practical application.
  • kafa
    kafa 26 November 2013 14: 00
    +3
    i am proud of these guys fellow
  • Kulneff2009
    Kulneff2009 26 November 2013 14: 03
    +3
    Well, at least something pleases. At least we do something better than others. You look and our defense industry will come out.
  • Ezhaak
    Ezhaak 26 November 2013 14: 36
    +1
    I perfectly understand scientists who are engaged in things useful for humanity, but I will never understand a "scientist" who strives to turn a chicken into a dinosaur using DNA changes. Such experiences are profanity.
  • avolk
    avolk 26 November 2013 15: 00
    +6
    Quote: rolik

    Only the blades are not cast, they are grown.
    And do not ask in which garden they grow. I will not say - this is the most important military secret. And the location of this garden is strictly classified

    Expert))))) .... grow)))). Do not grow a shoulder blade, but just cast it. It is simply cooled in a special way so that a single crystal is obtained. And this is not such a long and terrible process, as you describe. The crystal growth rate in the melt is almost equal to the cooling rate of this same melt, which is poured into the casting mold. It literally sounds like this - they grow a crystal in a form that is flooded with melt. Those. in the first place, it is still more casting than growing crystals in the understanding of the general public. Something like this. Smoke Theory.
  • Ustian
    Ustian 26 November 2013 15: 19
    +2
    Quote: Hedgehog
    I perfectly understand scientists who are engaged in things useful for humanity, but I will never understand a "scientist" who strives to turn a chicken into a dinosaur using DNA changes. Such experiences are profanity.

    With dinosaur meat more! fellow
    1. Ezhaak
      Ezhaak 26 November 2013 17: 11
      0
      So after all, according to ideas, that "scientist" wants only to grow a tail for his kurosaurus, a moron. And religion does not allow him to search for genes associated with the most common diseases. Better a chicken with a lizard tail.
  • Makarov
    Makarov 26 November 2013 15: 26
    +1
    Krasoten ... as I understand those Kotore in the turbine ND - they remained cooled?
    1. Rus2012
      Rus2012 26 November 2013 19: 13
      0
      Quote: Makarov
      LP turbine

      They are divided into refrigerated and uncooled :)
      Those. there are different ...
      1. Makarov
        Makarov 26 November 2013 20: 08
        0
        ok, I’ll put the question differently: are the TND blades cooled or not?
        1. Lyokhin63
          Lyokhin63 26 November 2013 23: 12
          +1
          NO! Only the blades of the first stage of the theater rotor are cooled. And not with liquid, as some people write here, but with a sigh because of the VD compressor. The storytellers divorced here
  • Aristarch
    Aristarch 26 November 2013 15: 32
    +1
    I am glad that we are developing similar technologies, well done Ufa residents!
  • kaktus
    kaktus 26 November 2013 15: 34
    +1
    Hurray, fellow countrymen! Know our! Now there are still good orders, otherwise you won’t be full with one medal for the whole plant smile
  • rainufa
    rainufa 26 November 2013 15: 35
    +2
    I am glad that my native, city-forming, Ufa enterprise brings such benefits to our country and thus puts off the thoughts of the adversary about tasting our wealth).
  • crambol
    crambol 26 November 2013 15: 56
    +3
    Quote: Yuri Ya.
    ... new technologies will pull us out of the economic pit

    This is possible only on condition that these technologies will be carried by someone. While the professions of engineers, technologists, developers are in the deepest down in comparison with the characters of "House".
  • kartalovkolya
    kartalovkolya 26 November 2013 16: 07
    0
    It is very encouraging news (although there is no doubt about the abilities of our scientists and engineers), now the main thing is to introduce it as soon as possible. The new 5th generation device was waiting for new engines, and there was an opportunity to pull in old engines to Chinese brothers, do not grumble!
  • duchy
    duchy 26 November 2013 16: 25
    0
    Why not gold? what Although it is encouraging. good
  • Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 26 November 2013 16: 26
    0
    Every day would be such positive news, and you can not go to the pharmacy.
    1. Alex 241
      Alex 241 26 November 2013 18: 30
      +4
      ......................................
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Altona
    Altona 26 November 2013 18: 50
    +6
    I believe that bonuses for such achievements should be directly paid from DAM salaries (author Skolkovo); from money trickled into Skolkovo; from the salaries of Chubais and Gozman ... In addition to the prize, award vouchers for the Olympics in Sochi ...
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 26 November 2013 21: 11
    +1
    Quote: Altona
    I believe that bonuses for such achievements should be directly paid from DAM salaries (author Skolkovo); from money trickled into Skolkovo; from the salaries of Chubais and Gozman ... In addition to the prize, award vouchers for the Olympics in Sochi ...

    Here you need to plant accounts with confiscation and seizure of real estate .. (foreign) You can Squeeze out half the budget (RUSSIA)! .. (but they will scream all over the planet ..))) There is a hope that they themselves will give everything back ... (little truth. .)))
  • vikov
    vikov 26 November 2013 21: 34
    -2
    I'm not quite sure that a monocrystalline structure can be "printed" by a 3D printer ... And a figure cast in a certain way.
    And so, yes, blade models, shape models - quite ...
    In any case - bye;))) [/ quote]

    Now in the world, experiments on new materials with a pre-programmed crystal lattice are in full swing, which will greatly advance the development of aviation, rocket technology, and indeed military affairs.
  • vanderhaas
    vanderhaas 27 November 2013 06: 07
    +2
    Technology by technology, and most importantly - the material titanium aluminide. An example of a non-pushy fit. Those who created such an alloy need a gold medal and other honors. There would be something to pour!
  • 10kAzAk01
    10kAzAk01 27 November 2013 13: 19
    0

    "Military Parity." After 20 years of research, the State Laboratory of Advanced Metals and Materials has achieved the creation of a new type of high-strength heat-resistant material based on an alloy of niobium, titanium and aluminum, blog.sina.com.cn reported May 19, 2012.

    China received independent intellectual property in this very promising alloy, which will allow "our aerospace industry to make a breakthrough and enter a new stage with the technological level of the leading countries of the world in this field."

    This "superalloy" in its strength is not inferior to an alloy based on nickel, but almost twice as lighter, which will significantly reduce the weight of aircraft engines. According to reports, the alloy niobium-titanium-aluminum will open a new era in the development of aerospace technology, ships, will be used in the automotive industry and other industries.

    ...... again stolen from our .......
  • gridasov
    gridasov 28 November 2013 21: 06
    0
    It is not surprising, but the blades should be made of a very popular and affordable material. Then, in a new organized algorithm for the process of expiration of the air flow, it is possible to obtain non-cooled blades and the temperature in the combustion chamber by orders of magnitude higher than modern ones, but instead of hydrocarbons, use other simpler types of fuel and with milder requirements for them.
  • fero
    fero 28 November 2013 21: 20
    0
    Quote: Vasek
    Enlighten the infantry:
    Quite recently, a single crystal blade was considered "advanced technology", but now it is casting again.
    A step back or "did it not work out" to grow crystals?

    single crystals hold dynamic loads relatively poorly, unlike static ones.
  • Sirs
    Sirs 1 December 2013 15: 32
    0
    I’ve been to Yekaterinburg at a training course so I can say that, our specialists who deal with aluminum alloys say that we are now in the role of aviation aluminum in catch-up with respect to the United States. But all the people work and everything will be OK. By the way, a new aluminum alloy (for the T-50 and SSJ 100) turned out to be at random - elements were added to the alloy in quantitative terms at random.