Military Review

Speed ​​"Lira": submarine project 705

69
The emergence of nuclear reactors dramatically changed the appearance and methods of combat submarines. Now it was possible for weeks not to rise to the surface, tracking down the enemy's ship formation. In addition, the power of new power plants has significantly increased the size of the submarines and due to this equip them with new weapons. A number of new technologies led to the fact that in the fifties of the last century, the leading countries of the world actively created new projects of submarines and weapons for them. So active that, with enviable regularity, the most daring ideas began to appear that could now be implemented.



K-64. 705 project


Idea

At the end of the fifties, SKB-143 (now the Malachite SPMBM) simultaneously developed several projects of submarines in which certain new design solutions were used. In 1959, designer A. B. Petrov proposed the creation of a small-sized single-shaft nuclear submarine (NPS) project with a reduced crew and a large number of automation equipment. In addition, the proposal implied the provision of high running characteristics: with an underwater speed over 40 nodes, a promising submarine could as soon as possible go into the required area of ​​the world ocean and carry out the tasks assigned to it. An interesting feature of such a submarine would be the ability to get away from enemy torpedoes due to high speed.

SKB-143 management became interested in the new idea and put it forward for discussion. Discussion of the proposal with the participation of representatives of the naval fleetThe shipbuilding industry and the country's leadership turned out to be quite long and stormy. The debate led to the correction of some nuances of the appearance of the future submarine. In a modified form, the proposal received the support of the Minister of the shipbuilding industry B.E. Butomas and Navy Commander Admiral S.G. Gorshkova.

In June, the 1960 of the Year of the CPSU Central Committee and the USSR Council of Ministers issued a joint resolution on the beginning of the development of the project with the code designation “705” and the name “Lyra”. In the draft submarine was supposed to use a lot of original technical solutions and new technologies, designed to ensure the implementation of technical requirements. Because of this, in May 1961, a new decree appeared, according to which the designers of SKB-143 were allowed to deviate from the norms and rules of military shipbuilding that existed at that time, if they could prove the necessity of such measures. The May 1961 of the year resolution virtually unleashed the hands of engineers and allowed to implement all or almost all plans.

The main designer of the project 705 "Lear" became MG. Rusanov, and the general management of the program for the development and construction of the submarine became the task of Academician A.P. Alexandrova. From the Navy, the project was monitored by V.V. Gordeev and K.I. Martynenko. The project to create a nuclear submarine "705" had a high priority and several scientific and design organizations were involved in its creation.


705 and 705K project


Project 705

According to the analysis of several variants of the overall architecture, the most successful one was chosen. The submarine of the 705 project was supposed to be built according to a double-hull single-shaft design. To improve the hydrodynamic characteristics and increase the speed of the underwater course, the project attracted specialists from the Moscow branch of TsAGI. The group of hydrodynamic scientists involved in calculating the appearance of a promising submarine was headed by KK Fedyaevsky. As a result, a recommendation emerged to carry out the hull of the boat in the form of a rotating body with a small streamlined felling on the top.

Steel and titanium were proposed as the main material for the hull construction. For some time, there was a parallel development of two versions of the case, which differed only in material. The titanium case had the best characteristics in comparison with the steel one. Therefore, the design of the latter ceased, and titanium became the main material of the hull of the submarine. Experts of the Central Research Institute of Metallurgy and Welding headed by Academician I.V. Gorynin.

The internal volume of the robust housing with sealed bulkheads was divided into six compartments. At the same time, the third compartment, in which the utility rooms were located and the main command post, had spherical bulkheads. Due to this, the third compartment could withstand the same water pressure as the robust case itself. Another measure taken to ensure the safety of the crew was the pop-up cabin. In the event of an accident, the cabin could become a rescue chamber for the entire crew. The design of the cabin allowed to float from the maximum depth and with a large roll or trim.

The preliminary draft of the promising submarine meant reducing the crew to 16 people. However, the absence of a number of important instruments capable of taking on part of the crew’s work led to significant changes. At the request of the fleet, the crew was increased to 29 people, and then brought to the final value - 32 officer and midshipman. Food supplies should be enough for autonomous navigation lasting up to 50 days.

The surface displacement of the submarine of the 705 project, according to calculations, was to exceed 2250 tons, underwater - 3180 tons. The maximum length of the submarine was 79,6 meters, body width - 10 meters. In the early stages of the project, it was assumed that the submarine displacement would not exceed 1500-2000 tons.

Requirements for the maximum speed of the underwater course, taking into account the size and weight of the boat, required the creation of a new powerful power plant. Of the several options, a variant with a single reactor using liquid metal coolant was chosen. Compared with the existing water-cooled reactors at that time, this power plant was more compact and lighter. According to calculations, weight savings reached 300 tons.

OK-550 reactor, developed in Gorky OKBM under the leadership of I.I. Afrikanov, set on a beam foundation, used in previous projects. For turbo gear units with shaft power up to 40 ths. Hp A new depreciation unit was developed, which allowed reducing the noise level produced by the submarine. A few more noisy units installed on separate pneumatic shock absorbers. The basis of the electric system of the submarine were two generators with a power of 1500 kW (voltage 400 V, frequency 400 Hz). In addition, the boat was equipped with an auxiliary diesel generator (500 kW) and an emergency battery.


705 and 705K project


Reducing the crew to the lowest possible level was possible only on condition that a new electronic equipment complex was created. In this regard, the Central Design Bureau of the plant. Kulakov (now the Central Research Institute "Granit") created a new combat information and control system "Accord", which allowed to manage all technical means and systems from the central post. The various components of the Accord system were designed to collect and process information about the environment, control weapons systems, ship navigation, etc.

The use of an automated information management system made it possible to change the methods of equipment operation. Thus, the 705 project did not provide for the permanent duty of the crew members at individual units and mechanisms. Instead, it was intended to periodically conduct a routine inspection of the compartments. Combat shift submarine consisted of only eight people.

The main tool for detecting targets of the 705 submarine of the project was to become the Ocean’s hydroacoustic complex. For navigation, the boat was equipped with the Sozh complex, to control weapons - complex "Sargan". The honor of their functions, these systems are performed automatically, which significantly reduced the load on the crew. In addition to these systems, the prospective submarine was to receive a number of other equipment designed to control various systems.

Prospective submarine received six torpedo tubes caliber 533 mm. Pneumo-hydraulic devices allowed shooting at any depth, from the periscope to the limit. The ammunition submarine of the 705 submarine consisted of an 20 torpedo SAET-60 or CAT-65 torpedo. If necessary, submarines could take on board up to 24 PMR-1 or PMR-2 mines.


For the first time, pneumohydraulic torpedo tubes were installed on the nuclear submarine of the 705 project, which ensured firing in the entire depth range of the submersible


Submarines project 705 should have the following characteristics. The maximum speed in the surface position had to reach 14 nodes, in the subsea - exceed 40 nodes. The working depth of the dive is 320 meters, the maximum one is 400 m. To control the course, the submarine received steering wheels on vertical feed stabilizers. One pair of depth rudders was placed on horizontal stabilizers, the second - in the forward part of the hull, if necessary it could be removed under a light hull.

2 June 1968, the first submarine of the 705 project was laid on the stocks of the Leningrad Admiralty Association. Already 22 April 1969, the boat K-64 launched on the water. 31 December 1971, she joined the Northern Fleet. It should be noted that during the sea trials a new submarine, in the construction of which a large number of bold and original ideas were used, was constantly harassed by various technical problems. Repeatedly there were malfunctions of the reactor, and cracks in the titanium case were identified. In 1972, during the execution of the combat training task, problems with the reactor began again. At this time, the liquid metal coolant began to harden, because of which it was necessary to shut off the reactor. Problems with the reactor led to the fact that in August 1974, the submarine K-64 was withdrawn from the combat fleet of the Northern Fleet.

Before the start of serious problems with the K-64 reactor, the industry managed to begin construction of three more submarines of the 705 project. In connection with the malfunction of the lead ship reactor, it was decided to suspend construction until the existing deficiencies were identified and corrected.

It took a lot of time to solve the existing problems. Because of this, the serial project boats became part of the fleet only in the late seventies.
Both Leningrad shipbuilders and workers at the Sevmash plant in Severodvinsk participated in the construction of new submarines. The serial ships that followed the K-64 boat differed from it in the length of the hull. When finalized in the early seventies, the reactor compartment submarines project 705 has become a little longer. Because of this, the total length of the submarines rose to 81,4 m. According to the 705 project, only four submarines were built, after which new ships were built in accordance with the updated 705K project.



Project 705K

Three submarines built project 705K were laid in the early seventies. They were supposed to build in accordance with the project 705. Some sources mention the construction of the fourth submarine of the project 705K, which was laid, but later dismantled on the stocks.

The nuclear reactor used on the K-64 submarine did not suit the military, which made it necessary to develop a new power plant for the new 705K submarines. Simultaneously with the OK-550 reactor, another power plant was being developed. Designers OKB "Gidropress" headed by V.V. Stekolnikov created a preliminary design of the reactor BM-40А; however, another system was chosen for use on submarines. After analyzing the problems encountered during the operation of the K-64 submarine, it was decided to continue the BM-40А project. The new main power plant had a different composition of units and was mounted on a foundation with double damping. The reactor using the coolant in the form of a lead-bismuth alloy developed thermal power up to 150 MW. The use of a new power plant made it possible to reduce the length of the submarine in comparison with serial ships of the 705 project.




The formation of an experimental automated nuclear submarine project 705 on the stocks


Exploitation

The seventh submarine of the project "Lira" (K-463) became part of the Navy in the last days of December 1981. New submarines created a real sensation in their respective circles. Despite the problems with various systems, the new submarines had the highest characteristics. During testing, the submarines of the 705 and 705K projects developed an underwater speed up to the 41 node. Thus, in terms of submarine speed, the Lyra was inferior only to the K-222 submarine, built according to the 661 “Anchar” project and developing a speed above 42 nodes. The new nuclear power plant could move to maximum operating parameters without special procedures. Because of this, the submarine was able to gain full speed in just 1-1,5 minutes and produce a turn of 180 ° in 40-45 seconds.

The unique driving characteristics of the Lyra submarines made it possible to create several new methods for avoiding enemy torpedoes. Having detected the attack in time, the submarine could quickly pick up the desired speed and escape from the torpedo. In addition, in the course of evading the enemy's attack, the nuclear submarine could turn around and counterattack. With the assumption that torpedoes were the only submarine weapon of the 705 and 705K projects, such capabilities became one of the main factors determining their combat potential.

The emergence of new Soviet submarines with the highest speed characteristics made a big impression on the command of a potential enemy. The most modern anti-submarine weapons have sharply lost their effectiveness and could not guaranteed hit the new Soviet submarines, which received the NATO designation Alfa. A number of foreign anti-submarine missiles and torpedoes used so far owe their existence to the Soviet 705 and 705K submarines.

As always with new bold projects, the operation of the Lear submarines was accompanied by a number of problems. First of all, it is necessary to note the fundamentally fatal drawback associated with the use of liquid metal coolant in the reactor. In order for the heat-transfer alloy not to harden, it was necessary to constantly maintain a certain temperature of the reactor, which accordingly affected the operation of the submarines. In particular, basing was difficult with the use of the existing infrastructure. In addition, it was necessary to constantly monitor the state of the liquid metal coolant and regularly carry out its regeneration - cleaning from oxides. Finally, it was supposed to form two crews for each submarine of the project. One of them was supposed to work on a submarine at sea, the second - to monitor the state of the systems while on the base. However, until the end of the service, all the "Lyres" remained with one crew.



Despite design flaws or operational problems, the submarines of the 705 and 705K projects were actively used by the sailors of the Northern Fleet. Submarines regularly participated in exercises and made autonomous campaigns. During one of the trips, the boat "Lira" clearly showed its combat capabilities. According to some sources, in the mid-eighties, one of the submarines of this type, while in the North Atlantic, pursued a NATO submarine for 22 hours. The boat of the likely opponent repeatedly attempted to escape persecution, but the high characteristics of the Lyra did not allow her to do so. Soviet sailors left NATO members only after the appropriate command from the headquarters.

In the mid-eighties, serious economic and political reforms began in the Soviet Union. Their result, among other things, was a significant reduction in the number of exercises and trips. The submarine K-123 became one of the first victims of the Perestroika that began. In the middle of 1983, it was sent for an overhaul, which was supposed to be completed in a few years. However, funding cuts led to the fact that repairs did not end until the end of the summer of 1992. Shortly before that, in early June, all seven submarines of the 705 and 705K projects received new names. In accordance with the updated nomenclature, in the name of the ships the letter "K" was replaced by "B". The numbers remain the same.

After the repair of the submarine K-123, renamed the B-123, remained the only submarine of the project, which was in service of the Navy. All other boats were withdrawn from it in 1990 year. B-123 remained in service until 1997 year. In the nineties, due to financial problems and the impossibility of timely service, the disposal of all submarines of 705 and 705K projects began. The process of dismantling boats and disposing of radioactive materials continues to this day.



The nuclear submarines of the 705 and 705K projects served no more than 15-20 years, during which they effectively carried out combat training tasks and were on duty in specified areas of the world's oceans. Unfortunately, due to technical and economic problems, the Soviet Navy received only seven such ships, but such a small number of submarines could have a great influence on the course of a hypothetical conflict.

The high fighting qualities of the Lear submarines were due to the large number of new original technical solutions. The use of the most automated control systems of the reactor, weapons, etc. allowed not only to reduce the crew, but also to get a lot of experience in creating ship electronics. It is probably the widespread use of automation that made it possible to avoid serious accidents and casualties. So, over the years of service there were several accidents of various kinds, including two disruptions in the operation of the reactor with thickening and solidification of the liquid metal coolant. However, during the struggle for survivability, the crews of the submarines did not lose a single person. All boats were retained, although the head K-64 was withdrawn from the fleet just a few years after the start of the service.



Unrealized projects based on "Lyra"

In 1963, work began on the deep modernization of the 705 project. In the course of the project, with the new designation “705A”, it was planned to create a submarine on the base of “Lyra”, capable of destroying enemy ships with the help of Amethyst cruise missiles. In addition to changing the layout of the corps, it was necessary to refine a number of systems for various purposes, as well as to create a combat information and control system capable of controlling missile weapons. Separately, it was required to provide target designation for missiles using sonar complex.

A draft version of the 705A project was developed in SKB-143. However, in the future, the command of the Navy and the leadership of the shipbuilding industry decided to consolidate all the projects of nuclear submarines with rocket armament for one design bureau. In the mid-sixties, all materials on the new project were transferred to Gorky TsKB-112 (now the Lazurit Central Design Bureau), where the 705A project received a new index - 686. For a number of reasons, the 705A / 686 project was never completed, but some developments were used in later projects of multi-purpose nuclear submarines.

In the early sixties, there was a proposal to create a submarine on the basis of the Lira project, capable of carrying ballistic missiles. The project with the index "705B" was created by the designers of SKB-143. Already the first analysis of capabilities showed that the submarine of the 705 project will be able to carry ballistic missiles only after a number of major improvements, the consequence of which should have been an increase in its dimensions and a deterioration in running characteristics. The solution to the problem could be a new ballistic missile with dimensions that fit into the dimensions of the "Lyra", like the American Polaris. In this case, it was possible to slightly increase the size of the submarine and equip it with eight missiles, while maintaining a sufficiently high submerged speed.

Submarines of the 705B project could carry and use the P-27K missiles of the D-5 complex. By 1964, the employees of SKB-143 created several variants of the draft design, which differed from each other in various details, including the number of missiles: the ammunition load of one of them was 12 units. Already in 1962, the documentation for the 705B project was transferred to TsKB-16 (later renamed Volga CPB, now part of the Malachite SPMBM), where the development received a new 687 index. The design of a promising strategic submarine missile carrier continued until the 1969 year, after which it was closed in favor of the 667A project.

In the late sixties, SKB-143 began work on creating the 705 project. The letter “D” meant “prearmed”, which fully reflected the purpose of the project. It was assumed that the new submarines, in addition to the six torpedo tubes, would receive four or six rocket launchers of the 650 caliber mm. To simplify the project and eliminate serious modifications of the robust hull, the containers with missiles should be placed inside the felling fence. The basis for the 705 project was the 705K project.

A draft version of the 705 project was ready in 1970, and two years later the Navy command approved the technical task. In addition to additional armament in the form of rocket-torpedoes, the upgraded submarines were to receive several more new systems and aggregates that improve performance and facilitate the work of the crew. In the first quarter of 1974, SKB-143 presented a technical design of a promising submarine with reinforced armament for consideration. The project was approved, but this stopped all the work. Due to the protracted development of a promising boat no longer looked fit for use in the future.


On the materials of the sites:
http://deepstorm.ru/
http://voencomrus.ru/
http://army.lv/ru/
http://русская-сила.рф/
http://oosif.ru/
http://kuleshovoleg.livejournal.com/
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  1. Civil
    Civil 26 November 2013 09: 23
    10
    A tricky reactor, however, in the future it would be possible to return to this idea, water-metal, although taking into account the decline in the culture of production .... not a fact
  2. Nayhas
    Nayhas 26 November 2013 09: 24
    +2
    In general, Lira should initially be the first single-hull nuclear submarine in the USSR, but ... The author also forgot to indicate what happened to the first nuclear submarine, she did not live long, the coolant froze and the boat died ...
    PS: we are still building two-hull submarines ...
    1. vthrehbq
      vthrehbq 26 November 2013 09: 47
      -1
      Not quite so, the new one-hull bari
      1. doktor_alex
        doktor_alex 26 November 2013 16: 19
        0
        Oh, really? So that you know, new boreas, all are recruited from the backlog of Antheas and sharks lying not sevmash, only the third boat is built of its iron, so with what a fright can the bore be single-hulled? Even ash and that if I certainly am not mistaken one and a half-hull.
        1. skiff-xnumx
          skiff-xnumx 26 November 2013 19: 01
          +1
          Not quite right. The backlog of projects 971 and 949a went to the Boreas. Project 941 did not smell there. Firstly, such a backlog was simply not and never was. All that they wanted was built. Well, and secondly, it touched the sections of the durable body (cylinders if you want) and in its use there is nothing criminal
          1. saturn.mmm
            saturn.mmm 26 November 2013 22: 36
            0
            Quote: skiff-1980
            Project 941 did not smell there. Firstly, such a backlog was simply not and never was.

            Is not a fact. The case of the 7th submarine pr.941 could somehow be used.
          2. doktor_alex
            doktor_alex 27 November 2013 11: 17
            0
            Did I say somewhere that hurt it badly?
      2. spravochnik
        spravochnik 2 December 2013 16: 25
        +2
        Boreas are all double-hulled. Ash and a half shell.
    2. Arberes
      Arberes 26 November 2013 10: 53
      +1
      Interestingly, how was she doing with the noise? Somehow I already found a publication about these super-boats, but it was indicated there that by noise they left much to be desired.
      Who in the subject can share their knowledge? I will be very grateful!!!
      1. Sirocco
        Sirocco 26 November 2013 12: 09
        +3
        Quote: Arberes
        Who in the subject can share their knowledge?

        During the tests, they discovered a new phenomenon in scuba diving: at a speed of more than 35 knots, there was external noise from turbulent water flows when flowing around the hull, it was like an airplane roar with a level of up to 100 decibels! During a 12-hour full stroke, various external elements were frustrated or mutilated. (As always, you have to sacrifice something.) The boat worked out effective maneuvers for evading enemy torpedoes with a subsequent counterattack, in particular, for a 180-degree turn at maximum speed, it took only 42 seconds! With such a maneuver, the enemy lost his target, and the Lira hit him in a fighter way.
        1. yehat
          yehat 25 February 2016 15: 33
          +1
          at a course close to the maximum, it did not just tear off the elements, the hull was also polished, which somewhat improved the characteristics of the boat.
          as for noise and speed, it seems to me that at that time there simply wasn’t any technology developed to combine these two components.
          I suppose you need at least a variable pitch propeller like on airplanes
      2. Sgt.
        Sgt. 26 November 2013 12: 38
        +2
        Write down in the net 174 of the "Shock Force" series there about all the armament of the USSR is told in sufficient detail and clearly. highly recommend.
      3. rolik
        rolik 26 November 2013 12: 41
        14
        Quote: Arberes
        Who in the subject can share their knowledge? I will be very grateful!!!

        On Shumka, at high speeds, made a lot of noise. But her speed, at that speed, will never be quiet. At small and medium runs, the noise was normal.
        In my opinion, the most beautiful boat. Nothing more, everything is clear, verified and licked. Porsche, among other submarines, is a boat in itself.
        1. carbofo
          carbofo 26 November 2013 18: 59
          +5
          Beautiful is not the word :), but mobility is generally a song.
          The project is interesting and the fact that it was still implemented despite the risks, a huge plus for engineering science and management.
          Pros, constant combat readiness, if I remember correctly Lyra could have gone on an emergency campaign within an hour.
          High speed, a completely different combat technique based on speed, maneuver, and fire. (only a ram is missing :).)
          High combat stability achieved by high maneuverability and speed.
          High readiness of the reactor for operation at full power.
          A small crew, which allows you to equip the crew with full-time seamen, which increases the coherence of the crew and professional skills.
          Cons - mainly operational and structural:
          High noise, not even at full speed.
          The requirement of constant maintenance of the coolant in a liquid state, the entire life of the boat, with associated problems.
          The high cost of maintenance for the previous reason.
          High crew requirements, due to the high automation of the boat.

          I personally like the project as a layman.
          Projects of this type should be in the navy, they are a good addition to the Varshavyanka and missile boats.
          If the tool is used correctly, then everyone has their place!

          The activity of any enemy will be minimal if he knows that he will be caught up and punished, and there can always be a quieter boat nearby, for example, the Varshavyanka, which is not so noticeable but no less biting.
          1. rolik
            rolik 26 November 2013 19: 19
            +3
            Quote: carbofo
            Pros, constant combat readiness, if I remember correctly Lyra could have gone on an emergency campaign within an hour

            You can add forced combat readiness. Since the reactor was always hot, it worked at low speeds, so to speak. There the coolant is on lead and so that it does not freeze, it was necessary to keep the temperature, plus regeneration of the coolant, purification from oxide. But it was a charge for speed and its fastest set.
            1. carbofo
              carbofo 26 November 2013 19: 50
              +1
              rolik
              If I start listing all the problems I know, it will pull me into an article, I don’t set myself such a goal, since I’m not so up to date on the details of the project to authorize something authoritatively.
              A complex and interesting project, both from the point of view of combat use and engineering, no one in the world has so much information on LMT reactors, it was worth the effort, it’s a pity that the topic just dies when it is born.
              The small dimension of the ship is largely achieved thanks to automation and a compact powerful reactor.
              The ship turned out as a Formula 1 car, an ultra-technological machine that was decades ahead of time, but with its own complexities that they won’t find widespread use, although who knows.
            2. spravochnik
              spravochnik 2 December 2013 16: 28
              0
              An alloy of lead with bismuth, to be exact.
        2. Aleks tv
          Aleks tv 26 November 2013 20: 05
          +3
          Quote: rolik
          In my opinion, the most beautiful boat. Nothing more, everything is clear, verified and licked. Porsche, among other submarines, is a boat in itself.

          Yeah, Roman.
          yes
          Very nice boat.
          I'm not a pro in the Navy, but 705 has always fascinated me.
          1. andrey-ivanov
            andrey-ivanov 27 November 2013 15: 35
            0
            I support! Miss submarine of the world! wink
  3. archi.sailor
    archi.sailor 26 November 2013 09: 48
    +4
    sorry everyone drank, and so the boat was excellent. I personally know people who managed to serve on the 705 project (automatic)
    1. Old_kapitan
      Old_kapitan 26 November 2013 10: 53
      +6
      We were escorted by ice and met us back. I watched how mooring - beautiful !!!
  4. Stiletto
    Stiletto 26 November 2013 09: 55
    22
    Oh, what country have you lost! In the shortest possible time to be reborn from the ashes of the Great Patriotic War, to create a reserve of technologies that are still feeding all and sundry, to build such ships that take your breath away - we could all this, and exchanged everything for "Western values" .. ...
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 26 November 2013 10: 33
      +7
      But nothing, the mouse will pour out mouse tears. And the boat is very beautiful.
    2. yehat
      yehat 25 February 2016 15: 34
      0
      because no one in the country knew what we had, everything was secret
  5. Evgeniy46
    Evgeniy46 26 November 2013 10: 00
    11
    and only now we have resumed the construction of a reactor with a metal coolant. And the West has not even left the development stage. Project 705 was at least 30 years ahead of its time. Modified for "Onyx" and "Caliber", it could become a terrible commonwealth for NATO and China
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas 26 November 2013 12: 38
      0
      Quote: Eugene46
      And the West has not even left the development stage.

      The operation of LMT reactors is a rather complicated thing. Heavy expenses.
      1. vadson
        vadson 26 November 2013 15: 17
        0
        I agree with your first opinion, but not with the second. when did amers have little money for the military?
    2. turanchox
      turanchox 28 November 2013 17: 42
      +1
      the Americans are ahead of the rest of the world here too, 1957 built a boat "Seawulf" with a reactor on liquid metal core (potassium) in operation, they raked a bunch of smut and forever hammered in this direction for boat reactors
  6. Volodya Sibiryak
    Volodya Sibiryak 26 November 2013 10: 40
    +6
    The only country that could afford to build boats from titanium.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  7. Western Faces
    Western Faces 26 November 2013 11: 43
    +5
    Thanks to the author for a good article, I would like to add a little:
    1). 705 and 705K projects were distinguished by their PPU lineup. At 705 (Stand of LAO) there were 3 loops of 1 circuit, and at 705K (construction of the NSR) only 2.
    2). To service the ships in the base, 2 technical crews were created, 1 for each series (705 and 705k) consisting of 3 units (1 for each ship).
    3) .A particular feature of the operation of these ships in the database was that the rear services of the fleet could not provide the ships with the steam of the necessary parameters (for heating 1 circuit), it was necessary to constantly keep the reactor at a power of 0,5%.
  8. Stiletto
    Stiletto 26 November 2013 11: 46
    13
    The science fiction writer Ray Bradbury (1920 – 2012) was once asked: why are people still not living on Mars? The writer replied: “... people are idiots. They did a lot of stupid things: they came up with costumes for dogs, the position of an advertising manager and IPhone ... And if we developed science, mastered the moon, Mars, Venus ... Who knows what the world would be like then? Mankind has been given the opportunity to surf the cosmos, but it wants to engage in consumption: drink beer and watch TV shows. ”
    1. vadson
      vadson 26 November 2013 15: 21
      0
      why are you doing this?
      1. Stiletto
        Stiletto 26 November 2013 15: 53
        +5
        Quote: vadson
        why are you doing this?


        Besides, it is time to get rid of Western values ​​in the form of "eating sweet - thinking a little" and returning to the Soviet model of worldview.
        1. vadson
          vadson 26 November 2013 17: 06
          0
          I mean, what does the topic of the article have to do with it?
          1. Stiletto
            Stiletto 26 November 2013 17: 22
            16
            Quote: vadson
            I mean, what does the topic of the article have to do with it?



            Vadim, look at the topic of the article. The creation of "Lear" by the Soviet Union was a real shock for the States - they almost sincerely believed that they had encountered alien technologies in the ocean. As far as I remember, even the torpedoes could not catch up with this boat, so quickly it maneuvered. At the time of the first meeting, the NATO military believed that they had collided in the ocean with not one, but with a whole flock of the latest boats of a potential enemy.
            During the Soviet Union, which survived the Great Patriotic War, and managed to restore its economy in the shortest possible time, and build up its military power, the country of the Soviets was the leader - its breakthrough technologies were in the lead in everything. Now that we have taken as a basis the model of the political, social and economic structure of the Western world, we are gradually giving up these positions. You cannot combine the incompatible, at the same time go in line and be a leader. And then I will repeat again: it is time to get rid of Western values ​​in the form of "eat sweet - think a little" and return to the Soviet model of worldview. To build, to dream of space flights to distant worlds, correctly, in the Soviet way, and not in a gay European way, to bring up your children. Not to be limited to "Dom-2" and "Battle of psychics". Along with millions of thinking people, more and more there are those who live with the problems of concluding another profitable contract for their campaign, buying a new car, and other consumption. These are not our values, they are imposed on us from the outside. Sorry for the confusion, but something like that.
            1. vadson
              vadson 26 November 2013 17: 40
              +1
              Yes, I agree with you, you just veiled your idea that the lyre and Ray Bradbury somehow did not immediately fit.
              1. Stiletto
                Stiletto 26 November 2013 17: 42
                0
                Quote: vadson
                Yes, I agree with you, you just veiled your idea that the lyre and Ray Bradbury somehow did not immediately fit.


                There is such a thing, do not blame me ... hi
            2. clidon
              clidon 26 November 2013 20: 09
              -7
              "Lyras" buzzed so much throughout the ocean that the United States soon understood who they were dealing with and calmed down. The boats were noisy, buggy in every way and terribly expensive, which is why their branch in the Soviet Navy quickly waned, just like interest in it. We decided to achieve underwater "records" by other methods, but only then the Union collapsed.

              I will honestly say that I am somewhat hostile to Soviet records in the form of gigantic underwater catamarans, titanium deep-sea divers and super-speed submarines. The impression is that the easy money thrown into the military-industrial complex burned the designers' thighs and "any dreams could be realized." At the same time, narrow-minded, expressionless Americans, calmly and without throwing, simply built batches of spent submarines and, as a result, "got the whole herd."

              As for consumerism, there is the concept of "golden mean". Empty shelves, flooded entrances and asphalt-free mud in military camps hardly had a beneficial effect on the minds and faith in human feat. For which they paid.
              1. ytqnhfk
                ytqnhfk 26 November 2013 22: 27
                +2
                You, one feels a new generation, just sit down at your leisure and think about the fact that safety has no price! Just because if you didn’t pay, then you won’t regret it after that! And anyone who goes ahead and searches can always be mistaken!
                1. voffchik7691
                  voffchik7691 27 November 2013 00: 43
                  0
                  How are smart people? Who does not want to support his army, he feeds someone else's!
                2. clidon
                  clidon 27 November 2013 05: 39
                  0
                  Security comes at a price. This is the state budget and its balance. In the Soviet military-industrial complex, at some point, they simply lost all sense of proportion.
                  1. andrey-ivanov
                    andrey-ivanov 27 November 2013 15: 45
                    +1
                    In fact, the US military budget was always larger than the Soviet one, and there were a lot of various unrealized and terribly expensive projects in the States. And the industrial sector working in the military sphere they had and is no less than in the USSR.
                    1. clidon
                      clidon 27 November 2013 17: 28
                      -1
                      Well, if you look at the fake Soviet statistics, then of course it was much larger (we have 20 billion rubles for everything about everything). But in reality ....
                      Let's compare "on the fingers". How many civilian vehicles did Chrysler produce? At the same time, how many tanks did he produce?
                      MIC programs are not cheap by default, but here it took the form of lawlessness. The United States built one series of nuclear-powered steel submarines and one missile submarine. In our country, only strategic ones could build two in parallel, plus a type with cruise missiles (a separate project), plus a couple of torpedo nuclear submarines (a separate project), plus diesel submarines plus nuclear power plants.
                      The same was true for tanks - three (and sometimes four) types of main tanks were simultaneously kept on conveyors.
                      The same thing prevailed in aviation. The Americans B-52 fly since the beginning of the 60s ...

                      However, it’s hard for me to poke at a Soviet or operating plant and not get into the "box".
              2. saturn.mmm
                saturn.mmm 26 November 2013 22: 53
                +1
                Quote: clidon
                At the same time, narrow-minded, expressionless Americans, calmly and without throwing, simply built batches of spent submarines and, as a result, "got the whole herd."

                In the sense, they threw everyone money, 17 trillion of debt that no one is going to give.
                1. clidon
                  clidon 27 November 2013 05: 41
                  -3
                  And yes, they built a system that allows them to have a public debt of 17 trillion and stand on their feet. But this is a different story ...
              3. voffchik7691
                voffchik7691 27 November 2013 00: 42
                0
                At the same time, narrow-minded, expressionless Americans, calmly and without throwing, simply built batches of spent submarines and, as a result, "got the whole herd."
                Dear, if it were not for the hunchbacked one with his gang, they would have fucked someone! Without a fifth column, they could not do anything.
                1. clidon
                  clidon 27 November 2013 05: 51
                  -5
                  These are all tales for the poor. Gorbachev perestroika was supported by an absolute majority. Then they also vehemently began to stand up for the separatist Yeltsian, against Gorbachev and the union. However, I'm generally talking about something else.
                  1. andrey-ivanov
                    andrey-ivanov 27 November 2013 15: 50
                    +1
                    Well yes. Perestroika was supported - that's a fact. Only with the implementation it was as always - "to the ground, and then ..." But in the end, others came and ... even demolished the base, all the way to the "ground". And the people ended up not even at a broken trough, but completely without it. As the classic said - fools and roads are the eternal misfortune of Mother Russia. You can build roads, but how to get rid of the second trouble?
  9. Ivan79
    Ivan79 26 November 2013 12: 20
    +1
    I think that the technology for the construction and operation of fast neutron reactors with LMW is with us
    sufficiently developed (BEAS). Why not return to the design of such boats?
  10. air wolf
    air wolf 26 November 2013 13: 16
    +1
    I think that such achievements can never be abandoned, and in general with modern technologies, the crew can be reduced to 10 people.
  11. Mhpv
    Mhpv 26 November 2013 13: 41
    +4
    Sometimes the USSR created projects that nullified the expensive ventures of the Americans. So one single flight of the Buran forced the Americans to abandon SDI, and Project 705 also managed to do its job for such a short life by naval standards, well, plus like Pushkin:
    About how many wonderful discoveries
    Prepare the spirit of enlightenment
    And the experience of the son of errors difficult,
    And genius, the paradoxes friend
    And the case, god inventor ...
    1. atalef
      atalef 26 November 2013 13: 47
      +5
      Quote: mhpv
      Sometimes the USSR created projects that nullified the expensive ventures of the Americans. So one single flight of the Buran forced the Americans to abandon SDI, and Project 705 also managed to do its job for such a short life by naval standards, well, plus like Pushkin:
      About how many wonderful discoveries
      Prepare the spirit of enlightenment
      And the experience of the son of errors difficult,
      And genius, the paradoxes friend
      And the case, god inventor ...

      And the Americans did not develop SDI (if you specify), PR and did not develop (invested a penny), And the USSR was seduced, and put in some worthless clouds of grandmothers (he himself served in the VKS)
      the Americans did everything to economically kill the USSR — SDI, Pershing to Europe, dropped ha prices for oil, an embargo on oil and gas and advanced equipment, supplies to dushmans — so that the USSR would settle more densely in Afghanistan, new nuclear submarines — and you’ve achieved your result, you like it or not- USSR late 80's early 90's almost universal deficit and crumbling economy
      1. Mhpv
        Mhpv 26 November 2013 14: 53
        0
        One of the real side results of the creation of the Energia-Buran ISS was a significant advance in the negotiations on arms limitation, primarily between the USA and the USSR. After all, the Buran spacecraft was created, among other things, for complex counteraction against plans for the use of outer space for military purposes. The scientific and technical potential that was demonstrated during the first unmanned flight confirmed our strategic capabilities and the need for an agreement.

        http://www.buran.ru/htm/gud%2021.htm
        1. atalef
          atalef 26 November 2013 16: 33
          0
          [quote = MCHPV] [quote] One of the real byproducts of the creation of the ISS Energia-Buran was a significant advance in negotiations on arms limitation, primarily between the US and the USSR. After all, the Buran spacecraft was created, among other things, for complex counteraction against plans for the use of outer space for military purposes. The scientific and technical potential that was demonstrated during the first unmanned flight confirmed our strategic capabilities and the need for an agreement. [/ Quote]
          http://www.buran.ru/htm/gud%2021.htm[/quote
          I attended that on the first, on the second launch, already then the officers talked about the exorbitant costs of the program and the launch price for 100 lemons at those prices, therefore it’s not a fact and far, but taking into account the fact that by that time the Americans were flying with might and main Do your statements somehow have no worthy facts under your feet, an unmanned flight? Well, if you prove to me that an unmanned single flight is better than 7 years of manned program
          Shuttle (by then) Maybe I will agree with you
  12. moreman78
    moreman78 26 November 2013 14: 14
    -4
    Quote: mhpv
    Sometimes the USSR created projects that nullified the expensive ventures of the Americans. So one single flight of the Buran forced the Americans to abandon SDI, and Project 705 also managed to do its job for such a short life by naval standards, well, plus like Pushkin:
    About how many wonderful discoveries
    Prepare the spirit of enlightenment
    And the experience of the son of errors difficult,
    And genius, the paradoxes friend
    And the case, god inventor ...


    And it is possible in more detail - WHAT EXACTLY managed to do pr.705 for such a short life?
    - to understand that due to the high speed of underwater running the boat loses its advantage in stealth?
    - or that it is impossible to get by on a small crew on a nuclear submarine (as originally conceived - such as a crew of 16 people)?
    - or that the time of the reactor with a metal coolant has not yet arrived (or maybe it will not come at all)?

    It was such projects as the nuclear submarine pr 705 - AND KILLED THE ECONOMY OF THE USSR!
    1. Cat
      Cat 26 November 2013 15: 29
      +6
      Quote: moreman78
      And it is possible in more detail - WHAT EXACTLY managed to do pr.705 for such a short life?
      - to understand that due to the high speed of underwater running the boat loses its advantage in stealth?
      - or that it is impossible to get by on a small crew on a nuclear submarine (as originally conceived - such as a crew of 16 people)?
      - or that the time of the reactor with a metal coolant has not yet arrived (or maybe it will not come at all)?

      more or less, only the last statement is true, and even that is not a fact. As for the rest:
      Noisy at high speeds - so no one forces you to go full speed all the time. But to quickly escape after an attack, or to dodge an enemy torpedo is a very useful quality. And even if the enemy PLO and hears the boat, so it is also necessary to ditch it with something. And if there is nothing - to keep in touch until the forces that have this "something" come up. Only here is the problem: often ships at speeds of 20+ do not hear anything except their own propellers. And even if they did, how many ships would be able to deliver 40 knots? That's it. Accordingly, the 705 will be able to safely break away from the adversary, then drop the move and hide, or slowly and quietly crawl in a completely different direction. And look for her later ...
      As a result, you give new anti-submarine weapons, new tactics, a new anti-aircraft defense structure, etc. etc. And all this is for ships and formations, the number of which is a couple of orders of magnitude greater than the number of the 705s. That is - money, money, money ... time, brains, resources.
      As for the small crew, all the bourgeoisie are now busy with all kinds of "drones" riveting. The Yankes won, the super-super-destroyer "Zumwalt" was composed, for 15 thousand tons of displacement - 150 crew members. It turns out that the concept invented (and implemented) in the USSR 40 years ago turned out to be very, very progressive.
  13. moreman78
    moreman78 26 November 2013 16: 05
    0
    Quote: Cat

    As for the small crew, all the bourgeoisie are now busy with all kinds of "drones" riveting. The Yankes won, the super-super-destroyer "Zumwalt" was composed, for 15 thousand tons of displacement - 150 crew members. It turns out that the concept invented (and implemented) in the USSR 40 years ago turned out to be very, very progressive.


    Actually, the concept invented (and implemented) in the USSR 40 years ago in pr. 705 is NOT a UAV! So do not distort. But the bourgeoisie is not only drones riveting. If you don’t know about the crews of all modern submarines, you can google it.
    1. Cat
      Cat 26 November 2013 16: 39
      +3
      Quote: moreman78
      Actually, the concept invented (and implemented) in the USSR 40 years ago in pr. 705 is NOT a UAV! So do not distort. But the bourgeoisie is not only drones riveting. If you don’t know about the crews of all modern submarines, you can google it.

      The concept, in this case, is a smaller crew with great (or equal) capabilities of equipment (nuclear submarines, ships, aircraft, tanks, etc.). Well, a drone is just an example of this very concept, its, let's say, ideal. And if the underwater connection was as simple and reliable as atmospheric - you can rest assured that the depths of the oceans would have long plowed the crowds of some underwater Traitors and Global Hawks.
      As for modern nuclear submarines - so Americans, I think, with great pleasure would limit the crew of their Sivulf to 30 sailors instead of 130. Moreover, the boat will be something newer than the 705s, and the level of bourgeois technology - compared to the Soviet one - is very awesome. Officially, at least. And unofficially - the crews of the US submarines will be more numerous than the Soviet / Russian ones. They see there, in America, too many extra submariners ...
  14. moreman78
    moreman78 26 November 2013 17: 31
    +1
    Quote: Cat
    And unofficially - the crews of the US submarines will be more numerous than the Soviet / Russian ones. They see there, in America, too many extra submariners ...


    Do not keep amers for idiots! It is precisely because they have, as you put it, "too many extra submariners" - the number of accidents on American nuclear submarines is several times (or even ten times) less than on ours. By the way, this is one of the reasons for the Komsomolets tragedy! So sometimes it's better not to skimp on the number of crew.
    1. Cat
      Cat 26 November 2013 17: 56
      +2
      Quote: moreman78
      Do not keep amers for idiots! Precisely because they have, as you put it, "too many extra submariners" - the number of accidents on American nuclear submarines is several times (or even tens of times) less than on ours ........ So sometimes it is better not to skimp on the number of crew.

      I agree that the larger the crew, the easier it is, in which case, to fight for survivability. And under normal conditions, the load on each crew member will be less, which means that the probability of making some kind of mistake is lower. Just as I mentioned above about Zumwalt, what’s it - the Yankees are deliberately planning to destroy the most expensive and expensive ship? The crew, in comparison with the same Burke, is less than two times more - despite the fact that the displacement is one and a half times more. If you follow your logic about the relationship between the number of crew and the probability of an emergency, it turns out: either the Americans are idiots, or one of two.

      Quote: moreman78
      By the way, this is one of the reasons for the Komsomolets tragedy!

      IMHO, it would be more correct to write not "one of the reasons", but "according to one of the versions." Because what and how happened there actually - Unfortunately, no one still knows, and not the fact that he will ever know at all.
  15. moreman78
    moreman78 26 November 2013 18: 29
    +2
    [quote = Cat]
    By the way, this is one of the reasons for the Komsomolets tragedy! [/ Quote]
    IMHO, it would be more correct to write not "one of the reasons", but "according to one of the versions." Because what and how happened there actually - nobody, unfortunately, still does not know, and not the fact that he will ever find out at all. [/ quote]

    And that is precisely why she doesn’t know, since only one sailor, who died first, managed to report about the fire in the compartment.
    The bottom line is that the boat has a huge amount of cables, steam and water pipes, electrical and electronic equipment, etc. - all this requires "live eyes" to monitor the state of the entire economy, and the state of the inner building must also be monitored. I don't remember anymore, but I met the standard that all compartments should be inspected by mine every half hour! Accordingly, you correctly noted that only a large crew can do this. Therefore, if there were a larger crew on Komsomolets, they would have found a fire earlier and extinguished it.

    Regarding Zumvolt - we will wait as they say, we will see what the Amers will do. But still, the service on a surface ship is safer than a submarine. You will be rescued from a boat in the depths of an accident on lifeboats and rafts.
  16. max702
    max702 26 November 2013 21: 26
    0
    From the article made several conclusions, as always saved on people "Finally, it was supposed to form two crews for each submarine of the project. One of them was supposed to work on a submarine at sea, the second was to monitor the state of the systems while at the base. Nevertheless, until the end of the service all the Lyras remained with the same crew. " What is it like ? The boat is made of titanium, the reactor is the newest and most complicated, and to maintain this wealth on the shore there is no money for qualified 30-60 people? Idiotism! That is why today planes and missiles are falling, we do not want to pay the working people. And also "To prevent the coolant alloy from freezing, it was necessary to constantly maintain a certain temperature of the reactor, which accordingly affected the operation of submarines. In particular, it was difficult to base using the existing infrastructure." Was it really possible to build a CHP plant near the base with a capacity 10 times higher than the need for heating the coolant on the boat .. is it very expensive or very difficult? I think it’s not something else, but ordinary idiocy from the series "a soldier must steadfastly endure ..", but here technology is not more complicated than space technology, and does not tolerate such an attitude, so we saved. It's a pity there are no figures for the cost of the boat, so it would be possible to calculate what for what ..
    rs: When the United States in the 30s supplied us with a lot of equipment worth millions if not billions of dollars, sent its specialists to debug equipment and train personnel, they were very surprised "you spend such huge money on equipment. machines, tractors, etc. .. well a hundred other dollars You don’t want to spend on toilets and showers .. "This is what we always have, a boat costs 1-2 billion, but we don’t want to spend 1-2 million on the dock and service staff for it. and this applies to absolutely all equipment and personnel, look in what conditions they are, tu160. Tu95, Tu22 and other aviation, and even talking about ground equipment is not even a hunt, but about the people that they serve in what conditions they live even more so.
  17. moreman78
    moreman78 26 November 2013 23: 07
    0
    Quote: max702
    From the article made several conclusions, as always saved on people "Finally, it was supposed to form two crews for each submarine of the project. One of them was supposed to work on a submarine at sea, the second was to monitor the state of the systems while at the base. Nevertheless, until the end of the service all the Lyras remained with the same crew. " What is it like ? The boat is made of titanium, the reactor is the newest and most complicated, and to maintain this wealth on the shore there is no money for qualified 30-60 people? Idiotism! That is why today planes and missiles are falling, we do not want to pay the working people. And also "To prevent the coolant alloy from freezing, it was necessary to constantly maintain a certain temperature of the reactor, which accordingly affected the operation of submarines. In particular, it was difficult to base using the existing infrastructure." Was it really possible to build a CHP plant near the base with a capacity 10 times higher than the need for heating the coolant on the boat .. is it very expensive or very difficult? I think it’s not something else, but ordinary idiocy from the series "a soldier must steadfastly endure ..", but here technology is not more complicated than space technology, and does not tolerate such an attitude, so we saved. It's a pity there are no figures for the cost of the boat, so it would be possible to calculate what for what ..
    rs: When the United States in the 30s supplied us with a lot of equipment worth millions if not billions of dollars, sent its specialists to debug equipment and train personnel, they were very surprised "you spend such huge money on equipment. machines, tractors, etc. .. well a hundred other dollars You don’t want to spend on toilets and showers .. "This is what we always have, a boat costs 1-2 billion, but we don’t want to spend 1-2 million on the dock and service staff for it. and this applies to absolutely all equipment and personnel, look in what conditions they are, tu160. Tu95, Tu22 and other aviation, and even talking about ground equipment is not even a hunt, but about the people that they serve in what conditions they live even more so.

    What did you think? On the service staff and saved! The economy of the USSR is not rubber, either! I couldn’t pull so much - hundreds of submarines, thousands of aircraft, tens of thousands of tanks, etc. Therefore, the main thing was to rivet all this technique - to receive bonuses for the implementation and overfulfillment of the plan, for new projects, etc.! And to serve - why, hell with it with equipment, will die - the industry is still riveting, and the women / soldiers of the sailors will give birth ...
  18. erofich
    erofich 26 November 2013 23: 58
    0
    For your information on the economy of the USSR, Ukraine has survived to this day by selling tanks. Were these tanks really built? Unfortunately, not mine, everything was built during the USSR. And now, sales are falling and will soon die out altogether.
  19. BBM
    BBM 27 November 2013 03: 26
    0
    Quote: Eugene46
    and only now we have resumed the construction of a reactor with a metal coolant

    whoever resumed it? Lyra's power plant was one of the weakest points of this project. On the same "goldfish" of an absolute wunderwuffle, even today and tomorrow they have managed with a pressurized water reactor. Compared to water for safety and energy efficiency, everything else sucks. So these liquid-metal fantasies are suitable for a maximum of fast reactors, and as a result of half a century of "progress" in this area, most of the new ideas revolve around the idea of ​​how to make the BN reactor work with water as a coolant.
    The use of liquid metal in a nuclear submarine reactor is not delusional.
    1. carbofo
      carbofo 27 November 2013 18: 02
      0
      And what is the problem of heating up to 120 s, no, VVER has its own problems, for a combat submarine a compact dynamic reactor is an opportunity to dramatically increase the combat potential of the ship, an experiment which is still considered successful, albeit expensive.
      I hope that these secrets have not been sold during perestroika, they are researching an entire industry, this is a tremendous amount of money and an engineering and scientific project, not every country can pull it off.
      Moreover, such reactors may be of interest for other projects, provided that some key problems of LMT reactors are solved.
  20. sivuch
    sivuch 27 November 2013 10: 28
    +1
    As they already said, the boat doesn’t always rush at full speed, like the Georgians after the blonde. It would be interesting to compare the noise at speeds of 3-6 knots with pr.671. And the maximum is for the case when the stealth is already lost, for example, after a torpedo volley, moreover, not only the speed itself is important, but the exit time is not it, as well as maneuverability. And, as far as I know, very fast acceleration is due to the reactors with LMW
    1. carbofo
      carbofo 27 November 2013 17: 55
      0
      An interesting idea, it remains only for someone to take up the implementation of the report.
      maximum speed can be used to wreak havoc on the enemy’s group in order to breed a guard order for anti-submarine actions, in order to weaken the rear of the group for the actions of less noisy submarines.
      Also, such a light can be used to hamper the actions of a ship’s group, due to the inability to suppress the actions of such a high-speed submarine due to the fact that just not one ship develops such speed, you will have to crawl in a compact group in full combat readiness, even if the submarine is gone.
      The weak ability of modern submarines to evade the attack of modern torpedoes, and the inability to throw such a hunter off the tail, and the small chance to simply catch up with Lira's torpedo, makes the actions of enemy submarines very limited.
      I see it as a meeting with a mad bull in an open field! if you notice then krantets.
      1. clidon
        clidon 27 November 2013 18: 01
        0
        and due to the fact that just no ship develops such speed, you have to crawl in a compact group in full combat readiness, even if the submarine is gone.

        Interestingly, is it faster than an anti-submarine plane (helicopter) or a submarine? What about the rocket?
        1. carbofo
          carbofo 28 November 2013 13: 18
          0
          Quote: clidon
          Interestingly, is it faster than an anti-submarine plane (helicopter) or a submarine? What about the rocket?

          I wrote a little about that.
          But oh captain, the evidence of the aircraft is certainly faster, and the rocket.
          But as I said, the change in the tactical pattern of the battle of this ship to an attacking one, and the low efficiency of using conventional weapons (torpedoes), according to the "Lear" in connection with its high maneuverability and speed characteristics.
          This greatly limits the individual defense capabilities of both enemy submarines and his ships, since the probability of defeat in a counterattack from Lyra is close to 100%. The likelihood of the Lyra being hit by torpedoes and missile-torpedoes is assessed as low, since it requires perfect accuracy to reach an attack-intercept position, because there is nothing to catch up with, there is not enough speed.
          The only effective method is a dense squadron order with overlapping ASW zones of individual ships, so that there is a possibility of interception, it seems to me that only by interception, you can get to the Lyra with acceptable efficiency.
          And in fact, it will resemble a raid by fighters on bombers, which were knocked together for defense, for more tight cover for each other from attacks.
          About this was meant.
          1. clidon
            clidon 28 November 2013 17: 44
            0
            Do not exaggerate the capabilities of the boat, which is faster than its counterparts by as much as 10 knots. This is not some element of the superweapon (no one will catch up, no one will catch). The boat will be detected due to the noise and a rocket or a helicopter or an airplane will fly to the area where it is located. On this, the submarine's combat path will be completed. Without any counterattacks and "enticements".
            The advantages of this type of submarine were manifested during underwater duels with enemy submarines, when the distances are small and the role of maneuverability increases. However, these advantages were not so great, so the very line of high-speed submarines today is sub-sequestered.
            1. carbofo
              carbofo 29 November 2013 21: 36
              0
              Quote: clidon
              Do not exaggerate the capabilities of the boat, which is faster than its analogues by as much as 10 knots

              Nobody exaggerates, I understand perfectly well that the Americans did not sit idly by for 40 years in order not to create a missile-torpedo with acceptable characteristics for intercepting the Lyra.
              But the tactical pattern of the battle changes if the target is still noisy but very fast. And then do not forget about the psychological effect, many Americans were decommissioned from the fleet because of problems with nerves when they were waiting for kamikaze attacks.
              Even a slight advantage, with proper use, can be wrapped with a joker in the sleeve.
              And then, I don’t offer to fly like a cowboy into a saloon with torpedoes naked!
              In the history of our army and the Navy, even for the sake of insignificant advantage, they built entire complexes of hundreds of missiles that were very expensive, ships whose advantages were not obvious, we constantly spent colossal funds, including on essentially experimental projects. The R-7 was later on the Soyuz space rocket, it was developed as a ballistic missile, although the missile engineers perfectly understood the complexity of the launch and the almost zero combat stability before reaching the upper atmosphere.
              The military did not receive super-weapons, but received haemorrhages with a reactor, they did not like it, moreover, the submarine is expensive and requires not only highly qualified service, but also practically an officer crew, which is also not cheap.
              I consider the project successful.
              1. clidon
                clidon 1 December 2013 08: 53
                -1
                That's the whole point, that the battle pattern with such a slight increase in speed did not change in any way. This was the hope precisely of the advantage, first of all, of underwater combat and nothing more. Which turned into problems with cost, operation and noise. As a result, the program of such submarines was abandoned.
                I already wrote above - the Soviet military-industrial complex was spoiled by huge amounts of money and expensive programs, which did not benefit the country.
                With the "seven" it was at least clear that there was practically no alternative. But they did it too (long-range cruise missiles, nuclear bombers), here the cost of an error was too high.
                1. carbofo
                  carbofo 2 December 2013 15: 25
                  0
                  Well, no one even says that speed is a panacea, the military realizing that everything is not going too well, they have lost interest.
                  Yes, and the report techniques were only written on the troubles with the reactor, but once they’ve built they need to drive out the resource, otherwise why did they build boats that don’t float, and see how you can use such boats in the future.
                  The military-industrial complex did its job, developed and built, the Germans also made a lot of good and promising models during the war, it must be innovative weapon, otherwise, it’s expensive, and it’s expensive.
                  Well, the seven became a political weapon, since Korolev spread the military, essentially making initially a space rather than a ballistic missile, but it was HE who developed the technology. The military went their own way, and Korolev became a propaganda tool, if it weren’t, there wouldn’t be space.
                  In general, I believe that such a high-speed, automated, strike submarine is needed, at least for the protection of missile carriers, not necessarily nuclear, ours are eyeing the closed systems of the Norwegians, the fighter must be a fighter.
                  We seem to have specialization in boats, but judging by some articles they often send whom God will put to heart, despite the suitability of the project for the tasks that they are aiming at!
  21. sivuch
    sivuch 2 December 2013 15: 35
    +1
    Read a parallel article on the same site Anxiety under the ice, in particular, this passage
    Only the commander instantly gave the command: "Raise the power of the power plant to one hundred percent." Turning on the sound of a torpedo on a speakerphone instantly sober everyone, but time has passed! The commander, the officer of the watch on duty, jumped; the teams fell out: "Left aboard, the most complete turbine." Without the percent of reactor power output to 100, this would have been impossible.
    1. carbofo
      carbofo 3 December 2013 11: 22
      0
      http://topwar.ru/36630-trevoga-podo-ldom.html
      It is strange that they didn’t find out who launched the torpedo, although for some reason I guess.
  22. fedok
    fedok 6 November 2014 23: 33
    0
    Comrade experts! Watch the submarine project 705 movie on YouTube. With Alexei Potekhin studied in the same platoon at VVMU them. Frunze, now we meet annually on Navy Day, so here he is, having served for 705pr. from lieutenant to cap. 1r., still loves this ship ...