Military Review

“One day Moscow will regret selling weapons to Beijing”

111
Russian media reported that Sergey Chemezov, General Director of Russian Technologies, said that this year it was impossible to sign a contract with China for the delivery of Su-35 fighter jets, military.china.com writes today. The contract may be signed at the end of 2014 or the beginning of 2015. The delay in the conclusion of the contract allegedly occurred because of Beijing’s demands to equip fighters with Chinese equipment.


These messages did not fail to be used for “provocative purposes” by the Japanese press, in particular, Diplomat magazine (November 19). The magazine reports that “in view of China’s theft of Russian military technology, Moscow is cautious.” In 1992, China signed a contract for the purchase of more than 200 Su-27 fighters worth 10 billion US dollars, but later he himself began to produce their clones under the indices J-11 and J-11B, thereby partially fulfilling and terminating the contract.

The magazine reports that the current situation is very similar to the 1992 situation of the year. Beijing hopes that Moscow will help in setting up a Su-35 technical service center, so China will be able to carry out their own maintenance. But the “curse of the Su-27 clone” will force Russia not to provide a lot of technical documentation to China. In the future, Russia may lose incomparably more if China sets up production of cheap Su-35 clones.

The Japanese edition very clearly dictates its position: “Russian interests will suffer when one day Moscow faces military equipment that it has sold to Beijing, and this will be regrettable.”
Originator:
http://www.militaryparitet.com/
111 comments
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  1. Kibalchish
    Kibalchish 22 November 2013 11: 51 New
    47
    China is a country that has territorial claims to all its neighbors, even those so distant as Malaysia, the Philippines and Brunei and the déjea Korea. Since 1945, he repeatedly invaded the territory of neighbors. The current policy is frankly imperialistic. Encourage China is more expensive!
    1. Onyx
      Onyx 22 November 2013 12: 07 New
      -2
      Quote: Kibalchish
      China is a country that has territorial claims against all neighbors

      China has no territorial claims against Russia. It is necessary to keep an ear with him sharply. But NATO, as well as Japan, which has territorial claims against Russia, is much more dangerous for us. In general, if now we do not take measures to strengthen our forces in the Pacific, it is likely that the Japanese will try to capture the Kuril Islands. Moreover, they are now actively militarizing.
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 22 November 2013 12: 13 New
        29
        Quote: Onyx
        China has no territorial claims against Russia

        China does not have? Look at what ideas their young people are raising now, and you’ll understand everything. They are now driven into their heads from childhood that Russia had deceived them by chopping off excess territories. On the internet there is a Chinese clip with subtitles about a weak northern neighbor, read, a lot of interesting things. hi
        1. Onyx
          Onyx 22 November 2013 12: 38 New
          +2
          I’m talking about official complaints, and not about cards that are printed by unknown people in China and about some clips. I can also shoot any kind of clip and put it on the Internet
          1. mivmim
            mivmim 22 November 2013 13: 18 New
            +4
            In China, these cards are printed by those who in Russia are betraying swamp walks.
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 22 November 2013 14: 02 New
              10
              Quote: mivmim
              In China, these cards are printed by those who in Russia are betraying swamp walks.

              There they do it with the tacit support of the state.
              Quote: Onyx
              I can also shoot any kind of clip and put it on the Internet

              And clips and films just create social prerequisites and form public opinion, and in the future it is from him that the Government of the state makes decisions when making decisions. Mussolini and Hitler followed this very path, provoking discontent in society, and then projecting it onto the desired image of the enemy. Voila. hi
              1. Onyx
                Onyx 22 November 2013 14: 10 New
                0
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                There they do it with the tacit support of the state.

                Did the Chinese government report to you?
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                And clips and films just create social prerequisites and form public opinion, and in the future it is from him that the Government of the state makes decisions when making decisions. Mussolini and Hitler followed this very path, provoking discontent in society, and then projecting it onto the desired image of the enemy. Voila.

                You need to start with the fact that Mussolini and Hitler were initially brought to power for the war against the USSR.
                1. Pushkar
                  Pushkar 23 November 2013 10: 43 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Onyx
                  Quote: Ingvar 72
                  There they do it with the tacit support of the state.

                  Did the Chinese government report to you?
                  Well, you guys have found friends. I remember how the Chinese in Damansky and I kissed like brothers. The squadron of our 47th IAP was moved to the Swallow field airfield, our families had endured fear. And this was when they were weak, the planes were considered pieces, not regiments! What changed? They built a "museum of the island's heroes ..." (I don’t know and I don’t want to know what they called Damansky). In Cherkizon, five years ago, I spoke with the Chinese, met a major of the KPA, who at the same time was sitting in trenches in the Shinyan district, which is opposed to the Far East. So, they consider themselves victors, and us - traitors who betrayed the ideas of Marx-Lenin. And these notorious maps are printed in school textbooks. Our country has already given them 1949 military factories in 56. Maybe we’ll think about it now?
              2. Kasym
                Kasym 22 November 2013 21: 47 New
                +5
                Then the United States frightens us with China (An interesting moment happened during the first meeting of Bush Jr. with Nazarbayev (NAS). At the meetings of Bush with Kondalina Rice and NAS with Tokayev (Foreign Minister). Bush, having just greeted, immediately asks NAS: “Are you not afraid that China will attack you? You have such a large and rich country! And even in the center of the mainland!” You could even see how Rice blushed, although she was African-American, for her boss. But Nazarbayev was not at a loss and said to him: “Well, I’m probably here for this too!” And he laughed.). Europe is frightening by the expansion of China. Now the Japanese have begun. Want to fight China? Welcome . What is our business? Oh yes, they want with our hands. Let the lip roll up. And in fact, this is not their business - trade between the Russian Federation and the PRC. The Japanese can be advised to remove the US base in Okinawa, it is not appropriate for a country with 3 economies on the planet to seek outside protection. lol
            2. Warrawar
              Warrawar 22 November 2013 16: 54 New
              0
              Quote: mivmim
              In China, these cards are printed by those who in Russia are betraying swamp walks.

              OO Hosspadia ... and there the hos.dep SYSHYA climbed a tri-gagged one ... who would have thought.
          2. FREGATENKAPITAN
            FREGATENKAPITAN 22 November 2013 14: 16 New
            10
            Onyx ... do not confuse God's gift with scrambled eggs ............. When the state has territorial claims to a neighbor for an officer. level, this is the danger level on the verge of a military conflict ... an example of the Russian Federation and Japan which are still at war on paper ............. There is a stele in Beijing (like a monument, something) is listed there all the territories and peoples of China .... Well, guess if there are Russia and Russians there? Even as it is ... and this is not a fairy tale or the machinations of the State Department, but at the genetic level among the Chinese!
            1. Onyx
              Onyx 22 November 2013 16: 14 New
              -2
              Evidence in the studio
              1. alone
                alone 22 November 2013 22: 22 New
                +1
                Quote: Onyx
                Evidence in the studio


                http://www.km.ru/world/2012/08/15/pogranichno-vizovye-voprosy-za-rubezhom/kitai-
                predyavil-rossii-territorialnye-prete
                ww.chaskor.ru/article/ploshchad_solntsa_19014
            2. Basarev
              Basarev 23 November 2013 11: 42 New
              +1
              With a dead donkey their ears, not our lands!
          3. Tersky
            Tersky 22 November 2013 18: 18 New
            +5
            Quote: Onyx
            I’m talking about official complaints, and not about cards that are printed by unknown people in China and about some clips. I can also shoot any kind of clip and put it on the Internet

            Read at your leisure, in many ways your view of China will change dramatically: On the history of the Russian-Chinese border issue
          4. atarix
            atarix 23 November 2013 02: 23 New
            +4
            official claims will appear in anticipation of the war
          5. shpuntik
            shpuntik 23 November 2013 16: 16 New
            +1
            Onyx (2) RU Yesterday, 12:38 ↑
            I’m talking about official complaints, and not about cards that are printed by unknown people in China and about some clips.

            It seems you are not familiar with the traditions of the Japanese, especially bushido. And vice versa, with a Chinese peasant who is told to sparrow to catch, will catch, they will say to go north — he will go without hesitation.
            The Japanese are adequate at times, have respect for weapons, for the enemy. This was proved by the war of 1905, the war of 1946. But the Chinese firing squads in civilian, about. Daman-just proved the omnivorous Chinese. They only need a new Fuhrer, instead of Mao, and everything, they will trample to the north - only on the road. Moreover, relatives there are already settled not measured, in the Far East.

        2. Praetorian
          Praetorian 22 November 2013 13: 24 New
          +1
          Do you know Chinese well to trust everything on the internet? Are you sure that the subtitles coincide with the song in reality?
          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 22 November 2013 14: 05 New
            +4
            Quote: Praetorian
            Are you sure that the subtitles coincide with the song in reality?

            Everything is checked so simply that your question seems um ... I don’t even know how to say it so as not to offend. hi
        3. ed65b
          ed65b 22 November 2013 16: 06 New
          +1
          you are wrong in China and in Russia there are enough Natsik who dream of gaining new territories. Why take them into account and use as a bogeyman? China has no complaints against Russia.
          1. Onyx
            Onyx 22 November 2013 16: 47 New
            -1
            I don’t know about the Chinese Natsik, but ours do not want to grow, but to decrease in size to three or four regions.
      2. Kibalchish
        Kibalchish 22 November 2013 12: 26 New
        11
        It has. Officially - a small plot in Altai. Unofficially - 1.5 Million Sq. km lost under the Beijing Treaty. In the northern provinces, there are even museums dedicated to the fight against Russia. Russians are not allowed there, but schoolchildren are taken on excursions.

        Recently opened another such museum. Yes, not just a museum, but a memorial complex.
        1. 31231
          31231 24 November 2013 09: 14 New
          0
          So to argue, then all our neighbors have claims against us. Have you forgotten that we are still a nuclear power?
      3. Volozhanin
        Volozhanin 22 November 2013 12: 31 New
        +2
        I remember how the situation around the Kuriles escalated in February 2011, some strange plots on TV, in particular in the "Main" program on Channel 5 ... do not be lazy, find it in the internet, it seems for February 27, 2011. And then this tsunami on March 11, so on time, I don't even know what to say ...
      4. Grandson of Veteran
        Grandson of Veteran 22 November 2013 12: 41 New
        15
        "China has no territorial claims against Russia"
        Not yet, YET! Serious rates of development of the PLA, the economic power of China, the abolition of the law "one family-one child" and a long common border with the Russian Federation. Doesn't it inspire concern? Oh, how inspires me!
        1. Bezarius
          Bezarius 22 November 2013 14: 08 New
          -3
          Quote: Veteran's grandson
          child "and a long common border with the Russian Federation. Doesn't inspire fear? Oh, how inspires me!

          The real border is not that big, thanks to the Himalayas.

          China will fight with us only when there is no threat from the United States and will have safe sources of resources, i.e. never. For it will have to fight once on the 100500 fronts, it will lose sources of resources and technologies.

          The current situation of China resembles that of the USSR, which was surrounded by enemies from all sides. The only difference is that China has a dofig of the population, and there is an economic baton instead of a nuclear one. And also in the fact that there is no resource and technological independence.

          In fact, they are in a stalemate, because in order to realize their ambitions, they need to seize our territories. Naturally, the US and NATO will not allow this, because if the dragon is saturated with resources, it will become a real threat to them. China understands this very well. In other countries, it is beneficial for China and the Russian Federation to cut each other out.
          1. FREGATENKAPITAN
            FREGATENKAPITAN 22 November 2013 14: 22 New
            +4
            What other Himalayas? It’s not about the Soviet-but the Russian-Chinese border, and there it doesn’t smell like the Himalayas.................................................. ...... The Russian-Chinese border is the modern state border between the Russian Federation and China. It acquired modern shape after the final demarcation in 2005 (with territorial concessions in favor of China). The current length is 4209,3 km (for comparison, the length of the Russian-Kazakh border is 7 512,8 km). It splits into two sections - the long eastern and short western (about 50 km). Between them is Mongolia, bounded by Russia in the north and China in the south. The Russian-Chinese border has both river (passes along the fairway of the Amur and Ussuri rivers), and land sections ..
            1. 31231
              31231 24 November 2013 09: 20 New
              0
              If China is with such imperial ambitions, then what can it not capture Mongolia, Korea and Vietnam ?!
              I look at you and think, has Russia really slipped to the level of Libya, what can you just attack and trample?
          2. The comment was deleted.
        2. stroporez
          stroporez 23 November 2013 08: 50 New
          +1
          do not forget, sho according to the original Chinese ideology --- China is the center of the universe. and WE are just "white barbarians" who temporarily, by misunderstanding, live on the lands of the Chinese. and this --- is suggested from the cradle ........
      5. APES
        APES 22 November 2013 12: 45 New
        +6
        Quote: Onyx
        China does not have


        I think the fact is that the country's leadership, including analysts Gen. headquarters - are aware that in the event of a direct military clash with China - the only means is WMD, in particular Nuclear

        Therefore, the sale of conventional weapons does not cause much concern.

        All this, Japan is more worried than Russia.
        1. Per se.
          Per se. 22 November 2013 13: 56 New
          17
          Quote: APES
          Therefore, the sale of conventional weapons does not cause much concern.
          Touches your optimism. It would be so simple, they would have one nuclear weapon. Even though Japan sits across the sea, it worries. We have already begun to make concessions to China, in 1991 China wrested Gorbachev's consent to pass the border along the Amur and Ussuri channels, Damansky went to China. In 2005, the shameful demarcation of the border, where the matter is not only in the lost hundreds of square kilometers. So, most of the island of Bolshoy Ussuriysky, where the fortified area of ​​our army was previously located, and part of the island of Tarabarov, where the takeoff trajectory of the 11th Air Force and Air Defense Army's combat aircraft stationed in Khabarovsk previously ran, went to China, the border almost reached the threshold of Khabarovsk. Most importantly, our "genius" agreement on a joint withdrawal of troops 200 kilometers from the border, where China did not lose anything from this, and our army retreated from the previously fortified borders, in fact, into the permafrost tundra. This is despite the fact that China has prepared many kilometers of underground tunnels for the hidden advancement of its troops to the border. In 2012, the Chinese again put forward territorial claims, this time along a section of the joint border in Gorny Altai. It seems that these are not their last wishes, since the total area of ​​their territorial claims to the bordering countries exceeds the area of ​​modern China, amounting to 10 million square kilometers. As for nuclear weapons, China was not afraid to unleash a military conflict with the USSR on Damanskoye in 1969; it is not always and not always possible to use nuclear weapons. China also unleashed border military conflicts with India and Vietnam. China is gaining strength, do not flatter yourself, the Chinese will soon stop smiling at us, we need to prepare for a war with China now.
          1. pahom54
            pahom54 22 November 2013 14: 08 New
            +5
            for per se
            I completely agree with you, and it is regrettable that many reject this point of view ...
          2. APES
            APES 22 November 2013 14: 19 New
            +3
            Quote: Per se.
            Touches Your Optimism

            in this matter, I’m rather a pragmatist
            I will say more - in the case of Chinese aggression - China will quickly reach the Urals, with all the consequences (Asians - they will cut out the entire male population in the occupied territories) - the question is, why do they need it - open aggression?

            all that you have listed is indisputable, but
            China and Russia are very interested in strong rear services amid possible future turmoil.

            Quote: Per se.
            As for nuclear weapons, China was not afraid in 1969 to unleash a military conflict with the USSR on Damansky


            then the USSR had a different doctrine - "the USSR under no circumstances pledged to be the first not to use nuclear weapons"

            Now the doctrine is different - and everyone knows about it

            Quote: Per se.
            not always and not everywhere nuclear weapons can be used

            in case of war with China - it will not be up to the flowers
          3. KERGUDU BIMBAR
            KERGUDU BIMBAR 22 November 2013 21: 18 New
            0
            ABROAD WILL HELP US!
          4. Basarev
            Basarev 23 November 2013 11: 48 New
            0
            And yet we must not be afraid of the Chinese
        2. Papakiko
          Papakiko 22 November 2013 14: 54 New
          +2
          Quote: APES
          the sale of conventional weapons does not cause much concern.

          Yes X ... not all weapons after Tesla went into production.
          I hope the Chinese can copy this in millions of copies:

          There is no hope for our auto industry. Including "Yo-mlyakh" from Proshka.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQyaUY7tyYM
      6. Siberian German
        Siberian German 22 November 2013 19: 59 New
        +2
        and you talk here with illegal immigrants from China - they directly say that they are eyeing the future
      7. recrut6666
        recrut6666 23 November 2013 10: 35 New
        0
        this is from some kind of parallel universe post, or seen the first channel !!!
    2. w.ebdo.g
      w.ebdo.g 22 November 2013 13: 44 New
      0
      Yes, this is the usual whipping up of a negative opinion about China, and in China about Russia ...
      conventional PR technologies. ignore this heresy ...
      Americans all over the world sell their processors, but NOBODY in the world could repeat them one to one)))
      so is the technique. Need intermediate technology, a lot of experiments and research. And most importantly, the TALENTED designer ...
      But this in China is not of Chinese origin)))
      one should not be afraid of selling finished equipment, but of luring specialists with experience and knowledge.
      this is valuable ...

      1. w.ebdo.g
        w.ebdo.g 22 November 2013 13: 55 New
        +1
        the fact is that China spends very little money and time on basic research, therefore it does not have its own established scientific school and, accordingly, intermediate and related knowledge. And discoveries are born precisely at the junction of sciences ...
        China spends 90% of the scientific budget on copying other people's developments.
        and if it rolls in sewing clothes and sneakers, then high-tech equipment cannot be copied 1 to 1. it just won’t work)))
        it’s the same as giving the Aboriginal people in the jungle a cell phone and they NEVER can create the same. since there is no intermediate knowledge)))
        what the Chinese from high technology were able to copy was exclusively used in those factories that other states built on their territory and taught their engineers ...
        Russia does not build factories in China and does not teach engineers. Russia just sells them high-tech equipment. Therefore, today they cannot even create a heavy aircraft themselves, but there is nothing to talk about a missile carrier)))
        1. APES
          APES 22 November 2013 14: 28 New
          +4
          Quote: w.ebdo.g
          if it rolls in sewing clothes and sneakers, then you can’t copy high-tech equipment


          there is another good example:

          Kalashnikov assault rifle - Chinese-made and ours.

          Who would prefer to take with them to the mountains?
    3. Army1
      Army1 22 November 2013 13: 53 New
      0
      What's not news is China.
    4. makarov
      makarov 22 November 2013 14: 11 New
      +1
      "... China is a country that has territorial claims to all its neighbors, even as remote as Malaysia, the Philippines and Brunei and even South Korea ..."
      Surprisingly to the whole world, will China soon file territorial claims against African countries? They all keep silent by twisting their fingers at the temple with the words of understanding - this is China.
    5. Siberian German
      Siberian German 22 November 2013 19: 58 New
      0
      I completely agree with you and with the Japanese
    6. gsg955
      gsg955 23 November 2013 09: 53 New
      0
      Doesn’t have yet ...
    7. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 23 November 2013 20: 16 New
      0
      Quote: Kibalchish
      Encourage China is more expensive!


      Another horror story to spur xenophobia ...

      Kiaty, by the time he himself can fully reproduce the Russian weapons will face the new generation of Russian weapons. It will be interesting to see this ...

      So that the Chinese do not plot, the Chinese themselves will stop them.
  2. Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 22 November 2013 11: 52 New
    11
    Unfortunately, the Japanese are right. You will extend a hand to the Chinese to say hello, and they are already looking at what you can remove from your hand.
    1. APES
      APES 22 November 2013 12: 37 New
      +3
      The Chinese about the Japanese and not so say ...
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 22 November 2013 14: 52 New
        +3
        Quote: APES
        The Chinese about the Japanese and not so say ...

        And they will be right too.
        Hi Andryukha. hi It’s just that the Japs now have not the same alignment as in 1904, otherwise they would also have dared blather.
        1. APES
          APES 22 November 2013 14: 54 New
          +3
          KU hi
          Quote: Ingvar 72
          the japs ​​now have the wrong situation


          they change it - have already begun - they were allowed
        2. The comment was deleted.
  3. Eugeniy_369
    Eugeniy_369 22 November 2013 11: 52 New
    +7
    The Japanese edition very clearly dictates its position: “Russian interests will suffer when one day Moscow faces military equipment that it has sold to Beijing, and this will be regrettable.”
    It’s clear why they write so what they want, etc. etc. But only after all ... there is a sense in these words, and our government needs to think about it.
    1. not good
      not good 23 November 2013 11: 49 New
      0
      The Japanese know what they are talking about, after the Second World War they were doing what China is doing now, namely, they were tyrilizing (copying) new technologies all over the world. And lo and behold, one fine moment they reached advanced scientific and industrial positions in the world. The Chinese government does not actively finance only industry, but also science, which means that over time they will begin to develop and produce the missing themselves. And about, they say, we have a terrible nuclear bomb, so they have their own nuclear bombs. Besides everything else, the bomb fell on Moscow and Peter CATASTROPHE, and for them fell to Beijing, well, what do you think 20 million against a billion.
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. major071
    major071 22 November 2013 11: 55 New
    10
    Well, Japan and China are two old "friends", everything is clear with them, not to pin up - it means the day has passed in vain.
    And we do not need to step on the same rake a second time. stop
    1. Manager
      Manager 22 November 2013 12: 53 New
      +4
      Quote: major071
      Well Japan and China are two old "friends"

      Well, China and I were also "friends" throughout history ...
  6. Stiletto
    Stiletto 22 November 2013 11: 56 New
    +7
    I talked about this for a long time. Only defensive weapons can be sold to such countries, but certainly not offensive. Today they are white and fluffy. What will happen tomorrow, no one knows.
    1. Yuri Y.
      Yuri Y. 22 November 2013 11: 57 New
      +2
      Economic losses are visible to the naked eye. Moreover, only in China there is some chance of colliding with its military equipment.
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion 22 November 2013 12: 45 New
      0
      What is defensive weapons? Even a concrete bunker, and that is a means of ensuring the actions of their parts in other areas.
      1. Praetorian
        Praetorian 22 November 2013 13: 29 New
        +1
        Well, s-300 is a defensive weapon. And the means of gaining superiority in the air are rather offensive.
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion 22 November 2013 15: 48 New
          -1
          C-300 can cover attacking tank columns from attack. There are no defensive weapons, as there is no defensive or offensive war, the phases of defense and offensive simply change each other.
          1. Onyx
            Onyx 22 November 2013 16: 49 New
            0
            Quote: EvilLion
            S-300 can cover advancing tank columns from an attack.

            S-300 S-300 - discord. It depends on which systems to keep in mind. You are talking about the military S-300V.
    3. major071
      major071 22 November 2013 13: 17 New
      +6
      You can sell any weapon other than strategic, but here are the production technologies - figs! stop
    4. Migari
      Migari 22 November 2013 13: 33 New
      +3
      I completely agree, we have not always had good relations with China, and there is no guarantee for the future; selling the latest weapons to China is nonsense, the title of the article is correct.
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. Bashkaus
    Bashkaus 22 November 2013 11: 59 New
    +7
    This is the most walrus to the Japanese, not the Kuril Islands, but I completely agree with them about the sale of Su35 China)))
  9. ole_ga
    ole_ga 22 November 2013 12: 00 New
    +5
    If we sell, then with a minimum of technical documentation (like a "user manual") I don't believe in these "friendly" guys for a dime.
  10. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 22 November 2013 12: 00 New
    +4
    Quote: “Russian interests will suffer when one day Moscow encounters military equipment sold to Beijing, and it will be unfortunate.”
    Moreover, Russian interests are already suffering. China exposes clones of Russian aircraft and air defense systems to the world market. And due to the low cost of its pirated products, it reduces the weight of Russian exports. The export of Russian weapons to China may be permitted subject to full compliance with Russian copyright. If there are violations - sanctions!
  11. q_556
    q_556 22 November 2013 12: 00 New
    +3
    The general director of Russian Technologies should well believe in the progressiveness of the Su 35 if it believes that the Chinese cannot copy them. Although, I'm afraid the money worries him more ...
  12. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 22 November 2013 12: 01 New
    +2
    Quote: “Russian interests will suffer when one day Moscow encounters military equipment sold to Beijing, and it will be unfortunate.”
    Moreover, Russian interests are already suffering. China exposes clones of Russian aircraft and air defense systems to the world market. And due to the low cost of its pirated products, it reduces the weight of Russian exports. The export of Russian weapons to China may be permitted subject to full compliance with Russian copyright. If there are violations - sanctions!
  13. iwind
    iwind 22 November 2013 12: 06 New
    +3
    You need to be VERY careful with China. I would generally limit the sale of modern technology.
    Won America already fears China and strengthens the maritime borders and allies in advance. And this under the condition, they are divided by the ocean and the darkness of the allies.
    And we have friends for the ages "we will give the shirt to graying."
    If they already need airplanes, let them buy a Su-30 (from 40-50 units).
  14. ole_ga
    ole_ga 22 November 2013 12: 12 New
    0
    If we sell, then with a minimum of technical documentation (like a "user manual") I don't believe in these "friendly" guys for a dime.
  15. Poruchik 90
    Poruchik 90 22 November 2013 12: 20 New
    +3
    And I don’t believe. It would be nice for the special services to work out a certain branch of high-ranking guys (who sell everything and everything to the Middle Kingdom) on the subject of "friendship" with China.
  16. sashka
    sashka 22 November 2013 12: 23 New
    +2
    Doubts were in their right mind. Tandem .. And where to put the people?
  17. avg
    avg 22 November 2013 12: 24 New
    +5
    You need to be careful with everyone. But now Russia has a unique position - our relations with all our neighbors are better than those between them. So they are trying to get Russia, each to its own side. And we need to maintain the status quo and do what is beneficial to us.
  18. moskal68
    moskal68 22 November 2013 12: 25 New
    +5
    A question for historians - does China know how to fight at all? I have not heard of any major Chinese victories. They have always preferred to "dissolve" the invaders in themselves.
    1. Kibalchish
      Kibalchish 22 November 2013 12: 31 New
      +7
      I am a historian by education. The Chinese know how to fight. Some states, for example, the Dzungarian kingdom completely disappeared under his blows.

      In recent history, China has captured independent Tibet, for example.
      1. APES
        APES 22 November 2013 12: 39 New
        +5
        in recent history, China has attacked Vietnam.

        see loss ratio
        1. lex fim
          lex fim 22 November 2013 13: 35 New
          +3
          Vietnam at that time only got out of the war and did not have time to cool down. It's like we were from Berlin and the Japanese in the 45th. The Chinese at that time had zero chance.
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. Kibalchish
          Kibalchish 22 November 2013 12: 42 New
          +3
          Bad example. China was then backward, in addition, its main army stood in the North, awaiting a Soviet invasion.
          1. APES
            APES 22 November 2013 12: 52 New
            +4
            Is Tibet a Better Example?

            Quote: Kibalchish
            his main army stood in the North, awaiting a Soviet invasion.


            The Airborne Forces were raised by the alarm at the moment when they recognized the Chinese invasion of Vietnam, no one was going to invade China - neither before nor after.

            CHINA has no experience of successful large-scale wars

            Quote: Kibalchish
            China was backward then


            even now - in the event of a collision, for example China and Japan, I will put on Japan (even without the support of the United States)
            1. TRex
              TRex 22 November 2013 13: 12 New
              +8
              An example of successful wars? 1. China is the nuclear power of 2. The population is one and a half BILLION, and all as one are cross-eyed 3. Semi-desert, neglected territories of our Far East as opposed to the booming industry of the Celestial Empire

              And no examples are needed. If it goes on like this, in 30-40 years they will dictate their terms to the WORLD, and they will simply throw us their hats.
              Recipe: modernization of the nuclear triad with the global strengthening of Pacific Fleet and the restoration of SDs, accelerated development of territories in the Far East, the development of industry and high technology, increasing the birth rate of the titular nation, and much more ..
              1. APES
                APES 22 November 2013 13: 22 New
                +3
                Quote: TRex
                in 30-40 years


                they, like ours, don’t have so much time to prepare

                Quote: TRex
                they will dictate their terms

                no one will give them

                Quote: TRex
                China is a nuclear power

                Russia, too, with the Strategic Missile Forces of the Russian Federation being several orders of magnitude superior to the Chinese

                Quote: TRex
                The population is one and a half BILLION

                I agree, a problem - but they will solve it soon

                Quote: TRex
                and all as one - cross-eyed

                they are not as homogeneous as you think, they have a bunch of internal problems and the threat of civil war is more relevant for them than external confrontation

                Quote: TRex
                An example of successful wars?

                I think China will try to demonstrate strength - Taiwan,
                how it will end for China - see
          2. avg
            avg 22 November 2013 19: 00 New
            +1
            And we stood in the south, in Borz at the airfield and waited for the command "Fas!"
            A good example. The army corps of China could not cope with the Vietnamese border guards and parts of the militia.
      3. mivmim
        mivmim 22 November 2013 13: 27 New
        -4
        Quote: Kibalchish
        In recent history, China has captured independent Tibet, for example.

        You confuse it, the Americans are trying to chop off Tibet from China.
      4. Altona
        Altona 22 November 2013 18: 10 New
        +2
        Explain, then, how far the Chinese tanks will advance deep into our Far East and what will they do there? How to supply all this in the Amur region, if there are no roads at all, I'm not even talking about their normal carrying capacity ... Our railways are guarded by armored trains ... Third, even if "sunny-faced and victorious China" will enter us with a firm stupid head , then the problem of resources will quickly throw it back into its territory, like when it was imperial Japan, stupidly diesel fuel and gasoline run out ... So, rejoice in the new sun, Chinese soldier! The fourth aspect, Vietnam and India will not fail to knock on the ass of the aggressor, their military potential will not be idle either ... And it is comparable to the Chinese ... Fifth, do the military academies of the PLA have normal combat experience that can be taught and developed? Or is the entire military legacy only Chiang Kai-shek and the Korean War, 1929-1951?
        1. mivmim
          mivmim 23 November 2013 10: 29 New
          0
          Quote: Altona
          Please explain, then, how far will the Chinese tanks advance deep into our Far East and what will they do there? How to supply all this in the Amur Region, if there are no roads at all, not to mention their normal throughput ... Our railways are guarded by armored trains ...

          What is this nonsense? You were a freak in the Far East? Or just inside the garden ring?)))))))))))
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. Altona
            Altona 23 November 2013 16: 18 New
            +1
            And you, crank, can you organize a Chinese tank campaign from the Far East to the garden ring? If you can, then explain how the Chinese armored columns will break into Moscow from the east? Will you show them the way? Or the capture of Khabarovsk and Vladik will be the fall of Russia for you? Or will you sit out in Chita? Further, how will the Chinese Politburo chew its aggression to the rest of the world? Are you probably a great diplomat? The fact that you are a great military strategist is already visible ...
  19. x.andvlad
    x.andvlad 22 November 2013 12: 31 New
    +2
    Quote: Kibalchish
    The current policy is frankly imperialistic. Encourage China is more expensive!

    It turns out "not to encourage", but specifically to arm. And against whom this weapon will be used - one can only guess. You need to be more careful with China - definitely!
  20. Stinger
    Stinger 22 November 2013 12: 33 New
    0
    What else can the Japanese say if they are with knives with China and China is at hand? And then, we all catch up with the states. And so, caught up?
    1. Kibalchish
      Kibalchish 22 November 2013 12: 40 New
      +6
      China needs resources. In Japan, they are not. In Russia they are. For whom is China more dangerous?
      1. amp
        amp 22 November 2013 13: 27 New
        0
        Potentially for Russia, but potentially here is the key word.
      2. Stinger
        Stinger 22 November 2013 18: 43 New
        0
        I do not dispute the potential danger. It's about copying aircraft. This is by no means copying jackets from Versace.
    2. zhihaar
      zhihaar 22 November 2013 13: 23 New
      +1
      and we don’t need to catch up, we need to cut
  21. propolsky
    propolsky 22 November 2013 12: 44 New
    +5
    Russia has two allies - the army and the navy, therefore, China cannot be forever a friend, and arming it with promising technology, one must not only think about incomes, but also about possible difficulties in relations when these planes or their clones shoot, God forbid ! It is necessary to cross the sea to the territory of America and Taiwan, and Russia, with its tidbits, through the garden.
  22. umah
    umah 22 November 2013 12: 51 New
    +2
    Too many articles about how dangerous it is for Russia to be friends with China. Japan last fought in World War II, and who will remember when China participated in full-scale hostilities?

    And yet, too many Busurmans say that we will regret: we regret that we did not let Syria smash; we regret that we are selling weapons to China.
  23. lewerlin53rus
    lewerlin53rus 22 November 2013 12: 54 New
    +2
    Japan is not worried that "Moscow will regret it," but that China is getting stronger. But of course, there is some truth in this.
  24. amp
    amp 22 November 2013 13: 16 New
    +1
    In fact, Russia is much stronger than China.
    Everyone is simply mesmerized by the size of the Chinese population, but now the 21st century is in the yard, not 20 Y. Now you can’t win the war simply by overwhelming the enemy with corpses. This was no longer possible in the 20th century. When the Soviet Union sent infantry against the Germans with a Molotov cocktail and 5 rounds of Mosin rifle, the army suffered serious losses, but achieved no results. The only exception was the battle for Moscow, but then the frost helped a lot, because of which German technology simply got up, and the Germans did not expect any offensive in such weather. All the victories that the Soviet army gained were won precisely when there were enough tanks, artillery and aircraft.
    And now, in general, the 21st century, and just infantry cannot win a victory.
    And if you compare what China has other than infantry, then in all, China will be worse than Russia. Especially aviation.
    As soon as the Russian Air Force seizes dominance in the air, their offensive will drown.

    And this is not hat-thinking mood, this is a real analysis of the situation. In the short term, China has no chance against Russia.
    1. lex fim
      lex fim 22 November 2013 13: 45 New
      +4
      The Chinese economy is stronger than the Russian one, and therefore China will have better and more armaments, and helping it to arm itself is not in our interests.
    2. Uncle
      Uncle 22 November 2013 15: 40 New
      +3
      Quote: amp
      In fact, Russia is much stronger than China.

      Friends travel to China, they are simply shocked by the pace of development. We will be in full g. at such a pace, you don’t even have to fight with us. And Japan with Korea, 22 century. For example, the train to the airport accelerates to 450 km / h, and the airport is only 40 km away! 10 minutes! Keep silent about us ... It's sad.
    3. Odysseus
      Odysseus 22 November 2013 19: 40 New
      0
      Quote: amp
      In fact, Russia is much stronger than China.

      I got a joke. It's funny ....
      Quote: amp
      . In the short term, China has no chance against Russia.

      Of course, with one motorized rifle brigade with weapons from the 70s to the entire Trans-Baikal Territory and 170 flight-suitable old fighters for all of Russia, our chances are very high.
      As the fathers-commanders say, for the Chinese army the main problem will not be to defeat the Russian army, the main problem will be to find this army ....
  25. Tuzik
    Tuzik 22 November 2013 13: 18 New
    0
    China is now more difficult than Russia, because it is really one against all enemies (it does not even have pseudo-friends), to attack anyone means to destroy itself. If it attacks Japan, both the USA and NATO and other friends will fit in, the same thing will happen if it attacks Russia, strangely enough, the Anglo-Saxons and shafks will fit in for us (though not immediately), it’s beneficial for them to destroy the largest creditor and get out thereby raising the industry from the crisis, so that China is now building up muscles not for attack, but for defense, because puppet provocations have long passed and a religious card is being played out.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Altona
      Altona 24 November 2013 17: 51 New
      +1
      China will need to draw up a new military doctrine, which should justify the movement to the North ... Under this doctrine, draw up a road diplomatic map, because war is a continuation of diplomacy by military means, and bring this dish to the world community ... Under the possible occupation, estimate the number of garrisons and the cost of servicing them ... In addition, China is ally of Russia in many matters and has similar views ... Possible aggression will make it a center of power with many costs involved, and the Chinese leadership is not ready for this task and recognizes this ... Now, if China will be able to overcome these factors, then you can talk about something and discuss possible invasion schemes, and not engage in forum trolling ...
  26. dengy12
    dengy12 22 November 2013 13: 24 New
    +2
    Quote: 68
    A question for historians - does China know how to fight at all? I have not heard of any major Chinese victories. They have always preferred to "dissolve" the invaders in themselves.

    and what difference will they conquer or dissolve? anyway -.op
  27. Evgeniy667b
    Evgeniy667b 22 November 2013 13: 27 New
    +4
    Russia should not think about participation in the arms markets, but about its own security and its own weapons. The paranoid desire to get hold of arms sales will never do anything good for the dying. These are the pyrrhic attempts of gentlemen from maritime and aviation construction associations. Everyone will receive what he deserves.
  28. Evgeniy667b
    Evgeniy667b 22 November 2013 13: 27 New
    0
    Russia should not think about participation in the arms markets, but about its own security and its own weapons. The paranoid desire to get hold of arms sales will never do anything good for the dying. These are the pyrrhic attempts of gentlemen from maritime and aviation construction associations. Everyone will receive what he deserves.
  29. Mareman Vasilich
    Mareman Vasilich 22 November 2013 13: 35 New
    +5
    I have no idea to belittle the role of China and its growing power. But it will not be out of place to say about how the Chinese miracle appeared, and why China, with its half-billion people, bent Japan in World War II. I think with China it is necessary not only to keep an eye on it, but also to be prudent and pragmatic.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion 22 November 2013 13: 54 New
      +1
      And then there was no single China, it’s already 100 + years, they bent down everything and everyone, and the USSR bent 18.5 by the Chinese army 300 thousand in the 1929 in the conflict on the CER. True then China was allowed to save face, simply confirming the pre-war status of the CER.
  30. awg75
    awg75 22 November 2013 13: 41 New
    +1
    I hope the story of even such frank fools as our officials should teach something
  31. Lawless
    Lawless 22 November 2013 13: 50 New
    0
    I don’t understand the panic around China ... In New History, I don’t remember that China attacked Russia, enemies came from the west ... We teach History, gentlemen.
  32. Vadim12
    Vadim12 22 November 2013 13: 56 New
    +2
    China cannot be helped by weapons. Intellectual property is an empty phrase for them. It is likely that under the pretext of territorial claims they will climb Russia. They are rapidly building up their economic and combat power, and from childhood they have been hammered into the exclusiveness of the Chinese nation.
  33. Koronik
    Koronik 22 November 2013 13: 56 New
    +1
    The Japanese edition very clearly dictates its position: “Russian interests will suffer when one day Moscow faces military equipment that it has sold to Beijing, and this will be regrettable.”
    "I think with China we must not only keep our ears open, but also be prudent and pragmatic."
    You can’t say better. Yes, really smart, patient and prudent politician. As it seems to me such people we have the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. (But God save us from the likes of Shevornadzev)
  34. Bezarius
    Bezarius 22 November 2013 13: 58 New
    +1
    They have clones only because protoukry sold them blueprints, and not because we sold them airplanes. These are not tape recorders to copy ...
  35. vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 22 November 2013 13: 59 New
    +2
    America sells technology and weapons to Japan, but it is Japan that does not bother. Although I am certainly against the sale of modern weapons to anyone other than Belarusians
  36. Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 22 November 2013 14: 05 New
    +3
    The Japanese edition very clearly dictates its position: “Russian interests will suffer when one day Moscow faces military equipment that it has sold to Beijing, and this will be regrettable.”

    So that they sympathize with Russia? HA! They sympathize with themselves, because it is very likely that they will encounter this military equipment.
  37. Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 22 November 2013 14: 06 New
    0
    The Japanese edition very clearly dictates its position: “Russian interests will suffer when one day Moscow faces military equipment that it has sold to Beijing, and this will be regrettable.”

    So that they sympathize with Russia? HA! They sympathize with themselves, because it is very likely that they will encounter this military equipment.
  38. VADEL
    VADEL 22 November 2013 14: 07 New
    +3
    We need a deep modernization of the Soviet rubber bomb from an anecdote- "dropped two years ago, and she still jumps". belay
  39. mountain
    mountain 22 November 2013 14: 30 New
    +1
    Already gave a comment on a similar occasion, but with the delivery of our helicopters to China. I have an unequivocal opinion that it will become more expensive to not sell them anything. Or fill everything with a compound, Let it become harder, lose, flight qualities, but they won’t know the fillings. And in general it is difficult to believe, then they could come up with gunpowder, porcelain and a compass.
  40. Nitarius
    Nitarius 22 November 2013 14: 36 New
    +2
    USA launches its usual policy to dissolve neighbors! and most ON THIS! and then finish off the rest ... HOW DOES IT DO IT IN 1941-45!
    The United States and England first pumped Hitler with weapons, and then they told the FAS to the USSR.
    Now they are also trying to do the same!

    China must be afraid! BUT CHINA, UNLIKE THE USA, is building AROUND RUSSIA its bases and air defense stations!

    And the Anglo-Saxons are still RATS!
  41. rudolff
    rudolff 22 November 2013 15: 15 New
    +3
    It is not so much the current level of military power in China that is alarming, but the pace of military development. In 15-20 years, China will no longer measure biceps with Russia, but with the states. But it is premature to talk about a possible conflict with Russia in the foreseeable future, while this is unlikely. If only Russia with such wise rulers does not begin to fall apart, then the vultures will line up in line. But who really needs to worry, it's Mongolia. The vast territory is rich in natural resources, a scanty population, the almost complete absence of its own army, non-participation in any military and political blocs and alliances. There has been talk in China for a long time that the province of Inner Mongolia should become just Mongolia. Of course, China has undergone abstractions, but no one will really step up for Mongolia, including Russia. After the collapse of the Union, we turned our ass to her, as well as to our other allies, and we do not even want to notice her point blank.
  42. FunkschNNX
    FunkschNNX 22 November 2013 15: 54 New
    +1
    Of course he’ll regret it, only commerce will already be far from Russia.
  43. Sergey Medvedev
    Sergey Medvedev 22 November 2013 16: 33 New
    +1
    In 1992, China signed a contract for the purchase of more than 200 Su-27 fighters in the amount of $ 10 billion, but subsequently he began to produce their clones under the indices J-11 and J-11B, thereby the contract was only partially completed and terminated.

    It was necessary to take an advance payment immediately for all 200 aircraft. And let them dissolve themselves.
    1. Onyx
      Onyx 22 November 2013 16: 51 New
      0
      Quote: Sergei Medvedev
      It was necessary to take an advance payment immediately for all 200 aircraft. And let them dissolve themselves.

      I agree. But even more effective would be a refusal to supply engines to the Su-27. They copied the glider with avionics, but the engines were purchased from us anyway.
  44. kim. 230752
    kim. 230752 22 November 2013 16: 52 New
    0
    Quote: APES
    in the event of a direct military clash with China - the only means are WMD, in particular Nuclear



    China will use its own in response to our nuclear weapons. And it will reach the Urals and Moscow. Further pure arithmetic: there are only 140 million of us, and more than 1 billion of Chinese! Who will survive more - he won! And now in China’s border areas, Russia has an advantage over TEN of manpower and equipment (albeit somewhat outdated)! So for now, everything is not in our favor. It would be good if honest people could be found in the highest military circles, capable of reporting the TRUTH at the highest levels.
  45. Ross
    Ross 22 November 2013 17: 12 New
    +1
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Quote: Onyx
    China has no territorial claims against Russia

    China does not have? Look at what ideas their young people are raising now, and you’ll understand everything. They are now driven into their heads from childhood that Russia had deceived them by chopping off excess territories. On the internet there is a Chinese clip with subtitles about a weak northern neighbor, read, a lot of interesting things. hi

    And this is the failure of our historians. Hiding many 18 century materials, we inflict enormous damage on ourselves. On old maps of the 17-18 century, China (China!) Did not even own Manjuria. Muravyov-Amursky was not able to defend the old border when setting the borders - now we get Chinese claims.
  46. SEM
    SEM 22 November 2013 18: 37 New
    0
    Quote: w.ebdo.g
    Yes, this is the usual whipping up of a negative opinion about China, and in China about Russia ...
    conventional PR technologies. ignore this heresy ...
    Americans all over the world sell their processors, but NOBODY in the world could repeat them one to one)))
    so is the technique. Need intermediate technology, a lot of experiments and research. And most importantly, the TALENTED designer ...
    But this in China is not of Chinese origin)))
    one should not be afraid of selling finished equipment, but of luring specialists with experience and knowledge.
    this is valuable ...


    I AGREE FOR ALL 100% since you still need to trade in finished products, otherwise the whole market is necessary, but specialists developing all these technologies need to be protected and nothing should be shown to anyone where and what is taken !!! And then there will be order. It is unlikely that anyone will want to climb with us, even with the 10 millionth army, knowing how high the stage of development of science is with us and with it weapons !!!
  47. polkownik1
    polkownik1 22 November 2013 19: 20 New
    0
    The very last thing is to trust someone's official assurances of eternal friendship. Today, China does not have official territorial claims against Russia; the day after tomorrow it will. Become a Chinese for a minute and look around ... Most of your country (China :))) - mountains and deserts. There is nothing, there is no water, there is a problem with housing, there is no work, and around - two billion hungry neighbors! The idea of ​​expanding territories is inevitable! Mongolia - sands; Korea - mountains and Koreans: Russian Far East -... stick-trees: deserted, unpopulated millions of hectares of excellent land! And no (well, almost) people! USA, Europe, Japan will support with a bang! Chinese steam will be released a hundred years ahead, and Russia will not have time to fight for their markets. In general, the wait is not so long ...
    Just a version :))
  48. studentmati
    studentmati 22 November 2013 20: 20 New
    +2
    “One day Moscow will regret selling weapons to Beijing”

    One fine day, Moscow will regret that it did not give birth to as many children as Pikin gave birth ...
  49. alone
    alone 22 November 2013 22: 26 New
    0
    In some ways, the Japanese are right. The sale of advanced Russian military technologies is already harmful to Russia. Having scanned and multiplied, China has already begun introducing these technologies into the arms market and has begun to compete. If you take into account the cheapness of Chinese copies, you can understand that Russia will not even lose from this but also won’t win anything.
  50. Thirsty for wind
    Thirsty for wind 23 November 2013 02: 23 New
    0
    Washington sells and does not regret, Moscow for some reason should suddenly. Who are you kidding?