Military Review

Why not all Russians will leave Kazakhstan?

96
Why not all Russians will leave Kazakhstan?
In the "new" Semirechensky Cossacks in Almaty stanitsa



Official история Russian-Kazakh relations begin on October 10 on 1731, when in the Manitiuba tract (near Aktobe) Khan Abdulhair and a group of Kazakh foremen were signed with Empress Anna Ioannovna the Act on the entry of the Younger Zhuz into citizenship to the Russian Empire.

The massive social territorial mobility of Russians to the territory of Kazakhstan began approximately from the middle of the 18th century. One should not, in principle, forget about such non-Slavic approximately 15% of the resident population of Russian-speaking ethnic groups living in Kazakhstan, such as Germans, Koreans, Greeks, Roma, etc.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, 6 million Russians in Kazakhstan became the second largest (after the largest in Ukraine - about 11 million), the Russian diaspora in the near abroad. According to the 1989 census, they were here the second largest ethnic group after the Kazakhs (37% of the population). In the northern regions bordering the Russian Federation, their share reached 66% [1].

The law on languages ​​1989 g. Politically proved to be one of the most liberal for all similar laws adopted in the republics of the former Soviet Union. Kazakh was declared in it the state language (Art. 1), which remains undeniable to this day. Russian received the status of "language of international communication" and could be used along with the official language (Art. 2) [2]. Meanwhile, it is not just a constitutional formality. For a poster, ad or poster, made only in one (Russian or Kazakh) not in two languages, can attract the host or artist to a fine. However, for the 90-s. About 2 million Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians, as well as 0,8 million Germans left the country. The population of Kazakhstan decreased from 16,9 million in 1991 to 14,9 million in 1999. The reasons for leaving 90's were caused by the ambiguity of the socio-political situation, the emergence of new states, the inability to have two (in RK) citizenship, fear of being divorced from historical homeland (Russia), fear of the possibility of interethnic conflicts, the emergence of its domestic currency (tenge), the liquidation of the former passport system, the rupture of family ties and many other reasons.

According to the Statistics Agency of Kazakhstan, on 1 January 2006 of 15 219 thousand inhabitants of Kazakhstan 130 nationalities 8913 thousand were Kazakhs (or 58,6% of the total population of the republic), 3979 thousand - Russians (26,1%), 449 thousand - Ukrainians (2,95%), 429 thousand - Uzbeks (2,8%), 230 thousand - Uighurs (1,5%), 230 thousand - Tatars (1,5%), 223 thousand - Germans (1,5%), 102 thousand - Koreans (0,7%) [3].

Moreover, it is possible to talk about the increasing identification of Russians in Kazakhstan as an independent subethnos from Russians in Russia.

It is necessary to consider the stereotypical perception of a Russian who has moved there from Kazakhstan as a “Kazakh” or “other” Russian that has taken shape today in almost all regions of Russia. Although external anthropological signs remained on the face: Slavic features, blue-gray eyes, blond hair, excellent knowledge of the Russian language, customs, traditions, Orthodox religion, etc. What are the socio-economic, political, cultural, spiritual, ethno-psychological mechanisms of formation of this phenomenon - The subject of a separate study. Meanwhile, Kazakhs and Russians in Kazakhstan have been living without serious conflict situations for almost one and a half hundred years. The phenomenon of this phenomenon, in our opinion, is not yet described enough.

Turkic-Slavic factors of vital activity are identified by us as a whole as fundamentally opposite, even contradictory in relation to Western similar concepts of social relations. So, in many respects, the core foundations of the social activity of an individual of our superethnos were and still remain not individual-personal, as is vividly manifested in Western European (American) manners, but collectively-related, community-based [4] styles of socialization of behavior and thinking. As the history of our peoples shows, for example, neither the ancestors of the Türks of the Kazakhs), nor the Slavs in sociogenesis, had neither classical, according to Marx, stable slavery, nor strict consistent feudal relations.

Even after the reforms of Peter I, who laid the foundations of capitalist relations in Asian than Western-style feudal Russia, vigorously introducing Western European principles of life, the peasant community, the lifestyle of citizens remained under the serious traditional influence of neighboring, kinship, family relations. Almost two thousand years of collective-clan coexistence declared itself to everyone not only within such a relatively closed cell of society as a family, but also in such larger social formations as the rural community, gender, zhuz, region, state education in general, etc. .

Particularly unique manifestations of commonality between the “lower” strata, groups, classes, detachments and “top” of the management of the social structure in Eastern Europe and in the Turkic superethnos were essentially the kinship relations with the supreme rulers of the principality, khanate or kingdom or other forms of state . The highest rank politico-administrative rulers were perceived by the ordinary population not as completely alienated from society, it is their individual rulers (as it was in the traditions of the rule of Western European slave-owning and feudal empires and kingdoms), but as real relatives (“Father Tsar”, “Agay "[5], etc.). These factors for centuries were fixed in all spheres of the way of life of social groups and groups of the population of Russia (Russia), as well as the nomads of the “Field” (Turkic ethnic formations: Sakas, Massagets, Kipchaks, Khazars, Polovtsy, Pechenegs, etc.). And the problems of solving conflict situations often, as history shows, were solved not one-on-one, but “wall to wall”.

Curious is the fact that the Bolshevik model of social relations, permeated by a communist orientation, in many ways actually coincided with the already established social and group guidelines of behavioral stereotypes and mentality, traditions of some peoples of Czarist Russia. The universal socialization of the main means of production, the creation of collectivist forms of farming in the countryside (where the main percent of the empire's population [6] prevailed, the formation of mass political organizations in almost all age groups, as well as at other organizational levels (such as October, pioneers, Komsomol members, communists, members of the trade union, village council, councils of people's deputies, councils of the public and others), in fact left the basic structural and functional elements of life activity and in the former conservative communal frameworks. The total monopoly role of the communist party in all matters of the country's functioning and livelihood actually compensated for the replacement of the communal system by another authoritarian governance structure. Probably, this can partly explain the relatively quick victory of Soviet power in Russia, Ukraine, in Belarus - in regions where collectivist principles of joint interaction were traditionally decisive. A new power was quickly established in Kazakhstan and other republics of Central Asia. At the same time, such former administrative-territorial divisions of the former state as Poland and Finland, the “Germanized” Baltic countries, hurried to separate from the nascent socialist (read, collectivist) relations, since historically they traditionally oriented themselves towards the West European individualized business system and lifestyle.

Russian diasporization, the study of it as an independent phenomenon is a new phenomenon. In Soviet times, the first and second wave of Russian emigres living in Europe, America, Australia, as it were, were not noticed for understandable ideological reasons. Today, millions of Russians who have remained in the near abroad, who have moved to the distant, cannot be ignored. It may be worth thinking about their “huanxiaozation” - designation with a specific term that would be succinctly formulated by foreign Russians, as their Chinese would designate.

The most remarkable thing at the moment is that Russians are in the first place, relative to the size of the main population, today are in the first place in a country that is not even in the CIS, but in the European Union. This, of course, is about the Baltic Latvia, where Russians have long been at least 30% of the population. But once their share in that country was equal to 25%, while in our country it was about 50%. As you can see, the situation has changed radically.

In the Central Asian region, the Russians were faced with a choice of one of the strategies: to preserve the citizenship of the independent state of Kazakhstan; obtain Russian citizenship and go there for permanent residence; get Russian citizenship and stay to live in the current country of residence?

We turn to the factors that in the ordinary, psychological plan now contribute to the fact that the Russians did not move to Russia, other countries, as it was 10 years ago.

Russian as well as other peoples of Kazakhstan, the Kazakhs themselves today are worried about the low standard of living, unemployment, low competitiveness, insufficient opportunity for social and career advancement, since the existing clan system, to which Russians, as a rule, do not have The quality of health care, the future of their children, the decline in the cultural level of the population, the prospects and quality of education, the criminalization of society, the ecology of the region, the increased seismic activity zone (the southern regions of the republic, including Almaty), peace or the threat of war (for example, invasion by China) and other

The significance of the historical memory of the territory of the current residence (Kazakhstan) to the USSR is still implicitly preserved. Today's Russian at the thought of moving have something to think about. They have housing, the prospects of his finding children, grandchildren; a lifestyle that has developed over several generations; relatively lower compared to Russian prices for basic foodstuffs and utilities, wages, favorable climatic conditions, low possibility of interethnic conflicts, etc. These and other generally positive conditions of present residence in the Republic of Kazakhstan are further aggravated by a conservative factor striving for global changes that impede the decision to leave. This is especially true for the older generation.

So the waves of mass return in search of a better life in Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, as it was at the end of 80-s and in the beginning-middle of 90-s, are not expected. Over 1989-1995 Kazakhstan left up to 10% of Russians who lived in the republic before independence. The peak of emigration came in the 1994 year, when almost 235 thousands of Russians left the country. Almost every fifth of them had a higher education, 36% - specialized secondary education, and 5% - incomplete higher education. Then the share of Russians in general in Kazakhstan decreased from 37,0% to 25,6%, Ukrainians from 5,2% to 2,8%, Germans from 4,7% to 1,4%, Belarusians from 1,1% to 0,6%. Russian emigration from the republic has depleted entire industries, primarily industrial enterprises and grain farms [7].

The statistics of the survey of post-Soviet states on the percentage potential of a possible outcome from their own country is interesting. The situation is as follows. 34% are ready to leave Moldova, 28% from Azerbaijan, 26% from Georgia, 25% from Ukraine, 23% from Armenia, 22% from Lithuania, Kyrgyzstan, Belarus and Estonia according to 20%, from Latvia - 19%, from Russia - 17%, from Kazakhstan - 13%, from Tajikistan - 12%. Please note, potential Russian emigrants from Kazakhstan in this list are in second place from the end of this list! Traditionally it is believed that young people who are interested in improving their standard of living most often travel abroad. The Gallup poll confirmed the accuracy of this observation, but added that the possibility of emigration is more often discussed by people who already have relatives abroad [8}; Nowadays, the Slavic population for the most part has chosen modern Kazakhstan for living in the future. How can this be explained?

In modern Kazakhstan, along with perestroika, came serious and tangible freedoms for the will of the ethnic groups of the country, including Russians. There are a number of organizations and movements in the republic that defend the rights of the Russian population, develop and support Russian culture. The most significant of them are the Lad movement, the Russian community of Kazakhstan organization, the Cossack organizations (they are a separate conversation). The Lad movement (created in 1992) has about 30000 members, has regional organizations in all 17 areas. The main activity is the sphere of interethnic relations, seeking to protect and preserve the identity of the culture, language and spiritual heritage of the Slavs of the region. The “Russian community of Kazakhstan” is part of the Assembly of the Peoples of Kazakhstan.

Then, between Russians and Kazakhs, no extreme antagonism existed and is not felt (the attitude towards the people from the Caucasus or Central Asia is more aggressive). Both ethnic groups evaluated the difference in their living conditions as small and were critical of the prospects for the full independence of Kazakhstan; Anti-Russian sentiments here, as compared with other Central Asian states, were expressed very weakly, which was recognized even in domestic, Western, anti-Russian-minded sources [9]. We must pay tribute to the leadership of the republic - in recent years it has done a lot for the integration of Russians into Kazakhstani society. The continuation of this policy in the coming years is the most rational strategy of peace and ethnic tranquility both in our country and in the entire Central Asian region.

Further, it is important from the psychological point of view of the mass, ethnic consciousness of an individual people and the fact that complex, contradictory perestroika events did not affect the general aura of positive focusings, fatal relations in Kazakhstan to Russians. No radical consequences, assessments of interethnic relations as bad, because It was the Russians with Russia who had arranged this entire perestroika mess (as it was estimated in the Baltic countries, partly in Ukraine, Georgia), did not follow. Insults with words and actions, as punctual manifestations of nationalism at the household level, became frequent in the first two years of independence (1992-1994), but declined again along with the general extinction of euphoria about the proclamation of sovereignty. The reality of independence turned out to be much more complicated than it seemed in all echelons and not only of power.

In addition, the national policy of the Kazakh leadership, reflected in the Constitution and other laws, reflects concern about the complex ethnic situation, its ability to prototype Karabakh or Yugoslavia, go into the bloodiest conflict without winners. This is due to the fact that the Kazakh governing elite, rallying around President Nazarbayev, consists mainly of mentally Russified functionaries who received mainly education in Russia and therefore meet nationalist requirements only to the extent determined by the situation requiring the status of an independent state in the CIS space internationally. These freedoms are limited only if their realization threatens peace in the state or violates the Constitution. So, for example, all actions that could violate "interethnic consent" are considered unconstitutional. Tension, therefore, does not exist between Russians and Kazakhs, but between ordinary layers of Kazakhs, Russians and the elite leadership of the country, mainly Kazakh, whose actions are not sufficiently publicized, few are under public control. In this regard, the interests of ordinary residents of the republic, the Kazakhs and Russians largely coincide. Here is a possible barrier to future conflict.

Then, the number of supporters of the Russian language in the republican leadership is still so great that the Russian language occupies much higher positions here than, for example, in the Baltic states or in Uzbekistan and other Central Asian republics of the CIS. And this trend will continue for a long time due to the lack of literature, textbooks, teachers in the Kazakh language. All efforts to push back the Russian language and support Kazakh have so far changed little. As before, the Russian language is dominant in science, the media and big politics, which is partly explained by at least the seven thousand kilometer border with Russia in the Guinness book.

The issue of citizenship, which was very worrying for Russians in the early years of independence, who were faced with the alternative of accepting either Kazakh or Russian citizenship, has now been made. Most Russians decided on Kazakhstani citizenship, hoping that they would be better off here than in Russia and other countries.

As for the real participation in the political struggle, the ethnic factor is weakly involved. Russian will never become the president of the Republic of Kazakhstan, since, at the request of the Constitution, it does not speak Kazakh fluently. Perhaps that is why the overwhelming majority of Russians express political apathy. It is assumed that this is also a consequence of the lack of real chances to reach the “heights” of power, where the overwhelming majority of Kazakhs, and among Russian speakers, the same Russian people are involved: M. Shkolnik, N. Korzhova, G. Marchenko, M. Bortnik, A. .Lukin; Germans - G. Belger and A. Rau; Korean - V.Ni and others.

Meanwhile, the modern Kazakhstan electoral system cannot be called ethnically closed. Russians in this system also have chances of success to get to deputies of the Majelis (lower) and senate (upper house of parliament) and akims (mayors) of individual cities (such as Kustanayky-S. Kulagin) and regions. Of course, in this case, the overall loyalty to the government and the President is very important.

It is necessary to agree that political apathy is typical for all Kazakhstanis. They are not accustomed to unite to defend their own interests and to consider the elected deputies as their real representatives. The reason for this lies, obviously, not only in the legacy of Soviet times, but also in the pre-Soviet structures of thought and power that survived socialism.

The Russian population of Kazakhstan is split along several lines, and this is due, among other things, to the Russian migration to these lands, which stretches for 150 years. Immigrants and their descendants, depending on the time and purpose of their arrival (Cossacks, peasant migrants, exiles of Stalin's time who left for the war, workers in production, virgin lands, etc.) differ greatly from each other in their social, economic and cultural level; there are large differences in the degree of their attachment to Kazakhstan. Russian villagers often speak Kazakh and for the most part belong to the first wave of immigrants, so they have deeper roots in Kazakhstan. Post-war immigrants - both virgin lands and industrial workers, on the contrary, believed that they came for a while, not intending to change the country of residence; they only moved here for temporary work (like Turksib, Mangitka, BAM, etc.), from one part of the Soviet Union to another.

We should not forget that Russians, like all of Kazakhstan’s society, are divided into poor and rich, rural and urban, educated - uneducated, and the gap between different generations is also widening. The Kazakhs are also by no means a single nation, they are also very noticeably stratified, above all, unlike other local ethnic groups, into clans (zhuzes).

Recently it has become more noticeable (perhaps this is somehow connected with the crisis of Russia) and the fact that Kazakh Russians are increasingly feeling that the government and the population of Russia are no longer considering them as "their own". In the first years after the collapse of the USSR, there was no shortage of bellicose statements about the protection of Russians in the “near abroad”, however, real politics showed that their interests are not the highest priority for their historic homeland. Repeatedly the settlers were convinced by their own experience that they were not particularly welcome here. According to S. Panarin, Russian society is isolationist in the East and in the South of the former empire. One part of society simply “forgot” about the Russians living there, the other rades about its “fellow countrymen” in those parts as something abstract, about carriers of higher ethnic interests, but not as real people [10]. Even during perestroika, the difference between Russians in the Russian Federation and abroad was already felt: “foreigners” turned out to be more patriotic (a typical phenomenon of the diaspora - part of the people (ethnic community) living outside their country of origin, their historic homeland) dispersed-gopnicheskih-minded Russian in Russia. NATO aggression in Yugoslavia, perhaps for the first time, stirred up the swamp of Slavic identity (“our Slav brothers are beaten!”).

Formally, Russia everywhere and everywhere stands for the protection of Russians anywhere in the world. In reality, it is a question of the refusal of the Russian authorities to act as a refuge state for the Russians. Any Jew on the planet knows that if an anti-Semitic sentiment appears in his country of residence, the Israeli embassy will stand up for him. Regardless of citizenship. Germany accepted the Volga Germans 200 years after their ancestors left their homeland and granted them citizenship, simply because they were Germans.

When the anti-Chinese pogroms began in the Solomon Islands, this caused immediate intervention by the government of the PRC. The Chinese evacuated approximately 300 citizens to China from the rioting island nation. Note, the Chinese government saved the Chinese simply because they are Chinese, and not at all - citizens of the PRC. Moreover, China does not have diplomatic relations with the Solomon Islands (the latter recognize Taiwan as the “Republic of China”).

Russia is not yet a refuge for its ethnic group, it does not support Russians abroad. Ethnic Russian can not automatically receive Russian citizenship. Is it about Kazakhstan with his oralmans. During the years of independence, about seven hundred thousand ethnic Oralman Kazakhs from China, Mongolia, Afghanistan, Iran, Uzbekistan, and even Russia moved to the republic. With instant citizenship and benefits, which, however, in many ways turned out to be formally demagogic, their receipt drags on for years. That is why, in general, the positively conceived “Relocation Program” suffers a collapse among Russians in modern Kazakhstan.

Now let us turn to some socio-psychological factors contributing to the formation of a unique diaspora specifics of the Russians living, and at the same time the specifics of their “freezing” in Kazakhstan.

The first. The Russians survived here in Kazakhstan and took their place in the everyday life not colonial, as some local researchers believe, by the methods of imperial pressure on the local population, because of themselves, their resilience and hard work. The Kazakh population was in the middle - end of the nineteenth century predominantly nomadic. Kazakhstan is a zone of risky farming. Near Siberia with its fierce frosts. Up to 70% of the harvest could disappear in the months of frosts. And they can be in two years on the third. Consequently, the n settlers could feed themselves only on persistent agricultural labor, not relying on the help of the generally friendly nomads. Why friendly? Because almost three thousand-year history of nomads is based on the constant movements of herds across the steppes from the Carpathians to the Pacific Ocean in search of food for them. The arrival with its numerous cattle, even in the conditions of the boundless steppes, was always associated with the possibility of a clash with the owners of local lands, where the steppe men came to wait. And a thin world in these conditions has always been better than a “good” war. Hence, the traditional friendliness and openness of the Kazakh people to any ethnic group.

So, hard work has become one of the existing images of Russians in the Kazakh lands. It should be noted that the Kazakhs themselves are also very hardworking and executive people. One of the obvious examples of this is real, “without fools” or “stabbing”, service in any kind of troops in the Soviet, and now in the Kazakh army. Thus, isolation from the historical homeland, living in a foreign language, a different kind of specialization of work environment, has caused considerable labor motivation of wide layers of the Russian-speaking population.

The second. The Russians in Kazakhstan, unlike their Russian counterparts, remember very well and honor all their relatives, no matter where she lives or whatever distance she is related to. Moreover, not only traditional forms of communication, such as weddings or funerals, are taken into account. There are many more reasons for the frequency of communication between relatives. Living among alien ethnic groups has stimulated these blood-related contacts and connections for clearer, more stable coordination in helping each other and possible protection from problems. By the way, the positive, close, permanent, undisguised traditions of close kinship and zuz communication are relevant here. Up to, for example, a real opportunity for even a distant relative of the Kazakhs to live with you, as much as he needs, including years ... This ethnically-behavioral setting is one of the most difficult for our stereotypes of understanding ("an uninvited guest is worse than a Tatar" “It's time and honor to know”). If young Kazakhs or Russians want to start a joint family, this is one of the most serious obstacles to the happiness or strength of the future family from the point of view of relatives on both sides. Kazakhs are well aware that in the traditions of the Russians there is no obligation to tolerate even a perished relative for a week ... Hence, marriages between Kazakhs and Russians are not welcome. And if they took place, then secretly the relatives of the Kazakhs recommend their not to stay at a party out of respect as the traditions of the Russian side! Hence, the increased contact between Russians and their relatives has grown against the background of possible ethnic incidents, strengthening self-confidence and complacency for a successful labor process and everyday forms of communication.

Third. Internationalism. Tolerance for other nations. In general, this feature is peculiar to the Russian people historically. The composition of the Russian lands from the Ruriks always included a sufficient number of foreigners, who were not particularly targeted by ethnicity. In the conditions of Turkic-speaking Kazakhstan, this is especially significant. With the moderate mode of co-residence of different peoples in the territory of tsarist Turkestan, the Kazakh SSR, an independent Kazakhstan, forced for the Russians and tolerant by the indigenous ethnos, so that Russians stably behave tolerantly and with respect to the Kazakhs.

Here, the author suggests a digression from a strictly scientific style of presentation. The author recalls a trip in the city bus of Rostov-on-Don (as well as of any city in Russia). Swearing between passengers, with the mention of the plaintext of everyone and everything, that is called "without brakes" - an ordinary thing. In Almaty, any other city of Kazakhstan - this is impossible because of ... peace and quiet between the passengers. They are of different nationalities! A pair, collective quarrel will surely touch someone in the cabin, primarily an ethnic Kazakh or Russian. And this is fraught with intolerance of domestic nationalism, which can quickly move to more serious actions due to the ugly comments of a representative of one nation - another, but already in droves. However, further than “go to your Russia”. - And in response: “I have grandfathers and great-grandfathers here,” the situation will not work. More than four million Russians from Kazakhstan have nowhere to go. In Russia, in the same Rostov, one ethnos predominates - Russians. Hence, the possibility of more free to start a scandal in transport, at least removing the stress. In Kazakhstan, this is not possible. The ethics of inter-ethnic relations are already cultivated here, respect for Russians and Kazakhs is well established, and it is difficult to break them.

Fourth. Greater integrity and decency in relation to official duties. This generally quite legitimate thesis in Kazakhstan can still have a dual character of social-motivational realization. Yes, open nationalism, hostility, threats in Kazakhstan to the Russians were not and are not. This will confirm any. Meanwhile, to the Slavs there may simply be more attention from the indigenous ethnos. So that they are less or not late at all, they are not truant, they quit their jobs at the time, diligently carried out their duties and other postulates that are completely harmless in this regard, which require constant stress and self-control after the Soviet traditional or perestroika disorder. Today, if something is wrong, if everything is not working out for you or this negativism is included in the system, then you may be subject to complaints, up to and including dismissal. It is not a secret for anyone here that the overwhelming majority of bosses in the republic are Kazakhs (they speak the state language for the most part, and this is required by law for superiors).

There are many more well-known people in the country than the Russians, close Kazakh kinship ties and the need, even almost the obligation, to help their relatives, including in finding employment, even if they do not have sufficient qualifications or knowledge. This is not about nationalism; Kazakhs from other regions, zhuzes can also fall under such a subjective “press” of the authorities. The fifteenth anniversary of the active initiation of Kazakhstan to market relations is already breaking down these stereotypes, and there is an ever more dense reorientation in personnel policy towards education, experience, and professionalism. However, all this happens more slowly than we would like. This is where the Slavs form an additional vital need for increased motivation, principle in carrying out their official duties, and in forming and maintaining the image of decency at work.

The fifth. Orthodox Christian religiosity. After the collapse of the Soviet system with it went into oblivion and religious prohibitions. In Kazakhstan, this process has received a specific continuation. Today we can say that in the republic there are successfully two religions: Islam and Orthodox Christianity. Both are allowed to function by law. Although the state in Kazakhstan is secular, religiosity is tacitly encouraged. The social status of clergymen increased, meaningful acquisition of religious education, the free exercise of cult activities, sale and use, and the wearing of symbols. The problem is that religiosity in the republic today is specifically of an ethnicization type: all Kazakhs are Muslim, and all Russians are Orthodox. It is worth noting that the confession of other religions (Krishnaism, Scientology, Bahai, etc.), belonging to sectarianism (especially Muslim) is not openly approved. As well as criticizing almost openly the adoption by Kazakhs of Christianity (more often), or by Russians - of Islam (less often). It is believed that every cricket should know its hearth. The fact that any of these two world religions can be individually accepted by any person of any nation is preferred not to advertise. This factor contributes to greater religiousization of both areas of the population, rallying them also on a specific spiritual basis. I think that under these conditions, the Russian Orthodox Church of Kazakhstan, more and more, in the modern American manner, is also beginning to wear the status of a Slavic center-club of communication. Where you can come not only with traditional religious sentiments, but also with the purpose of communicating on everyday topics. At the same time, the further religiousization of the Slavs in the republic and their more profound ethnicization take place.

There is a personal opinion that in Soviet times, Russians in the KazSSR were more religious than throughout the USSR for the same reasons, although their numbers prevailed over the Kazakhs. The spirit of Islam has always prevailed in the region, supported by the presence of the Uzbek, Turkish, Tatar, North Caucasian, Azerbaijani, Uygur, Dungar traditional Muslim diasporas. Today, in fact, each of these Muslim ethnic groups is more concerned with surviving in market conditions than with the tasks of confronting the Orthodox Russian.

Sixth: language semi-mortem. In the republic, in everyday life, in business, in interpersonal communication, Kazakh-speaking people are increasingly spreading. Attempts of mass teaching of the Kazakh language to other ethnic groups of the population have failed. It went unsystematically, with rush waves, without an appropriate educational and pedagogical preparation, literary and methodological basis. The biggest problem in this is, in our opinion, the psychological factor. The Russian language is still in demand more than Kazakh in interpersonal communication, in education; It’s not a secret on radio and television that Russian-language programs are more popular, although there is a law for mass media that 50% of all broadcasts must be in Kazakh, 50% in Russian. The main strata of the Russian population are those who are now behind 30, and this is not a fruitful age for learning languages. The motivation for learning the language is still low — the Russian language is also much more popular in communication than Kazakh. There is a factor in mastering the Kazakh language in order to reach its fluency for career purposes. However, in practice this is not possible due to the same widespread range of the Russian language. Consequently, to occupy some administrative and political positions to the Slavs, therefore, is hardly possible. Meanwhile, Kazakh-speaking as the main way of social communication for Turkic-speaking ethnic groups (Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Turks, Dungans, etc.), has grown noticeably in recent years. And if in the institutions, departments, workshops, there was a factor in speaking in well-known Russian, including out of respect for Russians who do not know Kazakh, now it is becoming more common to speak Kazakhs, Turks and Kazakhs. Russians find themselves in a situation of linguistic semi-mortem. She also rallies the Russian speakers even more. Meanwhile, this situation does not provoke a surge of domestic nationalism. Moreover, she provoked a curious fact: Russian-speaking parents began to send their children to nurseries and kindergartens with Kazakh-speaking teachers. In the hope that children will learn conversational Kazakh in childhood through games, communication with the children of the Turks, and will grow up not as “dumb” as their parents, the older generation. By the way, this is another factor emphasizing that the Russians are not going to leave the republic!

(INSTEAD OF CONCLUSION)

The processes of Kazakhization in the republic will increase. Firstly, due to the higher birth rate of the indigenous population, especially in towns and villages. Secondly, due to the ongoing relocation of the Oralmans home. They do not know Russian at all, contributing to the Kazakh communication. Further, the crisis in the country further reduces the chances of employment, especially in rural areas of the country, contributing to the active migration of the rural population (mainly Kazakh and youth) to the cities, further increasing the percentage of Kazakh-speaking people there.

The share of the Russian population in Kazakhstan will further decrease and, consequently, the value of the entire Kazakh will grow, and at the same time the already existing feeling of ethnic discomfort among the Kazakh Russian-speakers.

They are already characterized by low fertility, high mortality and low rates of natural increase. The total birth rate of the Russian ethnos was 8,6 ‰ (lower than the national average by 65,1% or 1,7 times), while the mortality rate is much higher than 1,4 times [11]. The average age of Russians in Kazakhstan is 45-47 years against 25 from the Kazakhs. Given the low life expectancy in the country (of the order of 60 years), there is no need to be a visionary. If we compare it with one of the “oldest” countries in Europe - Sweden, then the average age of the population is 41 a year, with an average life expectancy of 80 years.

At the same time, it should be noted that of the current contingent of the Russian population, almost the overwhelming majority would like to live in Kazakhstan. This is one of the reasons why the Russians, for the most part, support the presidency of Nazarbayev, who openly declares the Eurasian principles of international politics.

Over four million Russians intend to continue to remain citizens of Kazakhstan. A lot has been said here about the positives of their life. However, identifying problems is always more significant. It reveals painful points, makes it possible in time to assess the degree of negativity of the situation and take timely measures not to bring the situation to a conflict, especially international, in which there are no winners. Not enough confidence in their future, a sense of inability to fully realize their potential, future uncertainty of their children, fears at the next redistribution of property when the new president of RK came to power, to become a victim of a surge of domestic nationalism, envy of their viability on the part of marginal Kazakh people, first of all, from immigrants from regions and regions of the republic, who were unable to obtain stable employment, housing, and their children - education, etc. These reasons can serve as a fertile ground for even greater separatism of the ethnic groups of Kazakhstan. Although I would not say for now, it will definitely lead to further destabilization of the situation, growth of aggressiveness, activation of domestic nationalism. Although such an extreme, of course, with the failure of appropriate preventive measures, is possible.

What conclusions from here suggest themselves? It is possible that the Russians here have not yet found a new identity; they cannot realize themselves as a self-centered single group, although the Lad movement, the Russian community and, above all, the Cossacks, have gone beyond local boundaries. Cossacks here in Kazakhstan is a special phenomenon that should be taken seriously, primarily because of their readiness to use force and as a result of close ties with the Cossacks of Russia. However, the behavior of the Cossacks are not typical for all Kazakhstani, even among Russian Russians.

The Russians in Kazakhstan today are noticeably in a particular historical, ethnical, cultural, linguistic, religious position in relation to Russia; here they have their established interests, socialization, lifestyle, and are no longer specific agents of Moscow’s policy, as some Moscow nationalist-minded politicians would like.

They should develop their own local identity and recognize that they are different from Russians in Russia and in some ways even closer to the Kazakhs today than it seemed to them themselves. It is important for them to continue to master all forms of education (including in Russia, abroad), a variety of specialties, a general package of knowledge and skills. All this, in spite of the emerging, sometimes negative, events described above, will allow us even in times of crisis, with the current and progressive decrease in population, to remain leaders of foreign-language groups of the population of the republic, retaining that high socio-political status and role one hundred and fifty years have been noticeably inherent in them here.

SOURCES
1 http://www.apn.ru/publications/article1931.htm.
2 Constitution of the Republic of Kazakhstan. Almaty, 1995.
3 http://russkie.org/index.php?module=fullitem&id=12256.
4 “zhuz” in translation from the Turkic language means literally “hundred”. But in a figurative sense, this word is understood as “a hundred relatives”, which in Kazakhstan is represented by three zhuzes - “senior”, “middle” and “junior”. Sometimes zhuz is also understood as a “genus”, of which there are several dozen in the republic. Thus, the Argyn clan includes over three million of its representatives, who consider each other relatives, from N. Shaprashty. Nazarbayev.
5 “Agay” in the Turkic and modern sense means “elder”, including as “elder brother”.
6 So, according to the 1897 census, peasants made up 77,1% of the population. See. Lapshin A.O. Changes in the countries of Eastern Europe: what they lead to. M .: Knowledge, 1991. C. 19.
7 Russians in Kazakhstan: Present and future prospects http://russkie.org.ru/index.php?module=fulitment&id-12256.
8 Washington ProFile. 27 June, 2008.
9 Gudkov L. Attitudes Toward Russians in the Union Republics // Russian Social Science Review, 1993. No. 1. P. 59; Levada Y. Public Opinion. Moscow, 1993, etc.
10 Panarin S. Security of the Russian-speaking minority in Central Asia and the policy of Russia // Nationalism and security in the post-Soviet space. M., 1994. C. 26.
11http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D1%83%D1%81%1%81%D0% A%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%B2_%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%85%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B5.
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  1. Volodya Sibiryak
    Volodya Sibiryak 21 November 2013 07: 11
    13
    Why won't they leave? Where should they go? Who awaits them in their historical homeland? Its unemployed dimes.
    1. vladsolo56
      vladsolo56 21 November 2013 07: 32
      +7
      I agree, there is no coherent resettlement program, elementary Russians are not needed in Russia. At least the authorities.
      1. ZU-23
        ZU-23 21 November 2013 08: 58
        +4
        Russians who wanted to come to Russia before the 2000s, we have plenty of them in the north, and there is no Pontus to go from a Kazakh village to a Russian one either. And what a coherent program can be, come buy housing in Russia, and so we barely relocate locals from dilapidated housing, plus a young family program, etc. My family friend came from Kazakhstan in the 2000s, and has long had citizenship and housing, but he worked hard at first, he made cinder blocks with a shovel, and took off his hut. And whoever comes here from a Kazakh glass to a Russian, then they are not particularly needed here)))
      2. Canep
        Canep 21 November 2013 09: 22
        12
        Quote: vladsolo56
        elementary Russians are not needed in Russia

        From 95 to 97 he served as an officer in the Armed Forces of the Republic of Kazakhstan, now I will never be able to obtain Russian citizenship. The new rules for obtaining Russian citizenship clearly state: military service in a foreign country is the reason for the denial of Russian citizenship. And there were about 30-40% of Russian officers (two-year-olds) in our division, that's about 200 people, and they have wives, children and parents. and It is only in one division and for a limited time and only officers. How many Russians went through the Armed Forces of the RK in 20 years ?, I think tens of thousands. Russian deputies seem to think the place they are sitting in. WE DO NOT NEED RUSSIA.
        1. Canep
          Canep 21 November 2013 10: 23
          16
          I am Russian from Kazakhstan, I do not have the right to obtain Russian citizenship, in contrast to the Papuan from New Guinea, who has the right to citizenship if he lives in Russia for 5 years and passes an exam in Russian.
        2. ZU-23
          ZU-23 21 November 2013 10: 27
          0
          Or maybe you are an officer recruited by the Americans and that we are now openly stepping on a rake, there are all kinds of nuances, it’s from your belfry that you understand that you are normal and think that you have done me an obstacle. So throw at least a family in Russia.
          1. Canep
            Canep 21 November 2013 10: 34
            +8
            Quote: ZU-23
            Or maybe you are an officer recruited by Americans

            Citizenship of Russia does not imply automatic access to classified documents.
            Quote: ZU-23
            So throw at least a family in Russia.

            And to die alone in Kazakhstan? WE DO NOT NEED IN RUSSIA.
            1. ZU-23
              ZU-23 21 November 2013 11: 52
              +3
              Well, of course you have your own troubles, well, I’m saying that working on a shift in Kazakhstan, and living in Russia with my family, is full of people working like that. He worked in the oil industry so we had a lot of shift workers from any country, Americans who want Canadians. I just know that if a person is not critical, then he will sit still and not twitch. The fact is that not everyone wants in Russia itself to do some kind of movement around the cities)))
              1. Canep
                Canep 21 November 2013 13: 50
                +3
                Quote: ZU-23
                that working on a shift in Kazakhstan, and living in Russia with a family, is full of people, because it works like that.

                And wait for deportation to their homeland (to Kazakhstan), after the adoption of another law aimed at "facilitating" the resettlement of Russians to Russia. If earlier I had a chance of obtaining Russian citizenship on a general basis (like the Papuans), because close relatives (father and mother) also lived in Kazakhstan, but now they are not there at all. In fact, in Kazakhstan, over the past 20 years, no laws have been adopted that worsen the situation of Russians, and in Russia, at every step, they declare that Russians should return to Russia, but in fact, they are adopting a law in advance according to which I had to live in Russia for 5 years, to obtain citizenship, and now, according to the new amendments, I do not have the right to citizenship at all. And there are a lot of Russians who served in the Armed Forces of the Republic of Kazakhstan during independence, there are a lot of about (according to my calculations) 200000 ... 300000 people, add to them their wives and children, who also will not go without husbands and fathers, and we have approx. 1 million Russians who are denied Russian citizenship. And there will be 3 million unnecessary Russians in Ukraine.
          2. diver1977
            diver1977 21 November 2013 10: 46
            +8
            Yes, you yourself have full recruits) They openly go to the embassy to bow to the new US ambassador (Nemtsov, Latynina, and so on).
            1. ZU-23
              ZU-23 21 November 2013 11: 53
              +1
              haha, so they are already citizens of Russia unfortunately.
        3. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 21 November 2013 17: 19
          +5
          Quote: Canep
          From 95 to 97 he served as an officer in the Armed Forces of the Republic of Kazakhstan, now I will never be able to obtain Russian citizenship. The new rules for obtaining Russian citizenship clearly state: service in the army of a foreign state is the reason for refusing to obtain Russian citizenship. And there were about 30-40% of Russian officers (two-year-olds) in our division, that's about 200 people, and they have wives, children and parents. and It is only in one division and for a limited time and only officers. How many Russians went through the Armed Forces of the RK in 20 years ?, I think tens of thousands. Russian deputies seem to think the place they are sitting in. WE DO NOT NEED RUSSIA.

          Or maybe it is for the better? Together, the Kazakhstanis have already made a significant leap forward, and the pace of nifig is not slowing. Maybe this is not always recognized by us, but it is enough to read newspapers 10 years old, 15 years ago and you begin to understand what we have already done.
          We don’t notice how the tree grows when we look at it every day.
        4. Alibekulu
          Alibekulu 21 November 2013 22: 47
          +5
          Quote: Canep
          Russian deputies seem to think the place they are sitting in. WE DO NOT NEED RUSSIA.
          Yes, it’s not on purpose, they’re just like the Chukchi in that joke about declaring war on China, did not think:
          Chukchi declared war on China! In China, general mobilization, a many million army is going. Moves through the snowy desert: infantry, tanks, etc. In the middle of the desert stands a yurt. The army surrounds the yurt. The main Chinese general with adjutants, retinue, guard enters the yurt. Three Chukchi are sitting in the middle of a yurt near a dying bonfire.
          General:
          -Are you Chukchi?
          First Chukchi:
          -We are Chukchi !!!
          - Have you declared war on China?
          Second Chukchi:
          -We!!!
          - Are you woodpeckers ?! We are one and a half billion !!!
          The third Chukchi calmly pulling his pipe on the exhale says:
          - * yours even we did not thinkand where are we going to bury them all ?!
        5. Alibekulu
          Alibekulu 21 November 2013 23: 30
          10
          Quote: Beck
          And now, in the end, I’ll say for youth
          And at the end I would like to ask the question: "Has Hyle Marek been banned ?! fool "
          Interestingly, Marek the Terrible was going to "take Washington" as part of the Russian army, and it looks like him ...
          Actually, its history perfectly characterizes the relationship of the Great Russians with the "younger brothers" ..
          You are crushing your friends with your own hands (and despite his sometimes harsh statements, Marek consistently, in my opinion, too much, advocated an alliance with Russia) - and you don't need to talk about all sorts of crap about the "Anglo-Saxon conspiracy" and "Dulles plan "...
          You yourself, with your own hands (and you do it perfectly good ) repel those who sincerely and fraternally treat you.
          And banned, the one who systematically, consistently and vehemently advocated an alliance with Russia.
          Well, "his fate is a lesson to others"
          When I hear about the "mysterious Russian soul", the thought comes to my mind that no one like the Russians succeeds in acting so effectively against Russian interests.
          The Americans frankly oxyeated when the Russians (Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Kozyrev and others ..) "gave up the interests of their country, their homeland with sense, with feeling, with conscience .. Read the memoirs of Cheney and other Americans - they show frank bewilderment belay Russian actions ..
          And, you are shy from them, not far gone.
          And don't be surprised why Kazakhstan is pursuing a "multi-vector policy" and consistently avoiding the "Russian embrace" ..
          R.S: And then the Russians are surprised why Russians are negatively treated in the territory of the former USSR ..
          And the Kazakhs need to understand for a long time that the "Russians" are not the same negative
          Or maybe these are not Russians, but really "scattered" ...
          1. Semurg
            Semurg 22 November 2013 09: 45
            +6
            Salam Alibek could still understand that Esenzhera was banned; a man openly wrote that he was for Kazakhstan without equivocation towards a union Russia and that he was a fan of the European choice, and Marek as you write for Kazakhstan and the Russian choice. It turns out that in general their positions are opposite and they are united in that they just put the interests of Kazakhstan in the first place (as I understand it, they are persecuting them in the bathhouse, which is primarily for Kazakhstan). IMHO.
          2. Beck
            Beck 22 November 2013 09: 57
            +5
            Quote: Alibekulu
            And at the end I would like to ask the question: "Has Hyle Marek been banned ?!


            Yeah. I hurried to administrators plus to deliver.

            They banned Marek. They banned and are silent, they would explain specifically for that. For the mat, for inciting ethnic hatred, or something else? The comments of Russian painters with overt nationalist passages are not deleted, they are not even commented.

            If Marek answered sharply, it was only to outright nationalist rudeness on the part of the Urashniks.

            Admins didn’t like Marek’s reasoned statements, backed up by historical data?

            Admins didn’t like Marek’s desire to create EurAsEC?

            Admins didn’t like Marek’s statement for Russians in Kazakhstan?

            Or admins cannot provide something reasoned publicly, but silently use an administrative resource. I did not like the comma or the dot was banned.

            Of course, this site is not the personification of all of Russia, but characterizes some of the private ones in the pursuit of greatness, selectivity, and exceptionalism, neglecting historical development. Such a worldview, if it covers all layers of Russian society, and not just Urashniks, will only lead to the isolation of Russia from the world community with a new iron curtain.

            As a visual komenty urashnikov on this site. About whatever country, in the district, there would be an article, the workers will always find negative words about it. And not just negative, but with a nationalistic color. This is at least Poland, even the Baltic states, even Ukraine, even Central Asia, even the Caucasus, even Finland, at least Someone to bark at. And admins are kindly silent not that they do not ban the authors of explicit nationalist and racial statements, but do not even make comments to them.

            Waiting for an answer. Whatever he is. Explanation. Comment. Warning. Silent Ban.

            The master is the master. But this applies to a fair host. This proverb does not apply to those who turn it around as they like; there are other definitions of such.
          3. The comment was deleted.
        6. Igor Ovcharov
          Igor Ovcharov 10 July 2017 05: 32
          0
          What is characteristic ... I found it on the website of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation: http://recrut.mil.ru/career/soldiering/conditions
          /foreigners.htm
      3. Max_Bauder
        Max_Bauder 21 November 2013 13: 25
        +7
        In essence, people without a homeland (where they were born, where your family lives and lived) cannot be a patriot. Russians in Kazakhstan so long ago that this is their homeland, as well as the Kazakhs of Orenburg Russia.
        To leave the country is an act of a coward, to live everywhere is bad if you do not know how to work. Another thing is if the war in the country is going on as in Syria, and then the real patriot will fight for the country with the enemy, and everyone can escape.
        1. Andrey KZ
          Andrey KZ 21 November 2013 19: 50
          +6
          Quote: Max_Bauder
          In essence, people without a homeland (where they were born, where your family lives and lived) cannot be a patriot. Russians in Kazakhstan so long ago that this is their homeland, as well as the Kazakhs of Orenburg Russia.
          To leave the country is an act of a coward, to live everywhere is bad if you do not know how to work. Another thing is if the war in the country is going on as in Syria, and then the real patriot will fight for the country with the enemy, and everyone can escape.

          Where he was born there, a popular proverb came in handy.
          1. Semurg
            Semurg 22 November 2013 10: 24
            +1
            Yes, Andrei each has his own concept of homeland. folk proverbs are based on life experience that there is a better examiner.
          2. Igor Ovcharov
            Igor Ovcharov 10 July 2017 06: 14
            0
            The stupidity of this saying is that it enslaves a person’s location at the place of birth (village, city, region, country, continent), if you take it literally!
            And if he was born on an airplane or on a steamboat, then that he is obliged to sail or fly all his life? Where is the logic?
            And the logic in it is that it was about the planet Earth, and not about the village!
            Such a sadness! laughing
    2. atalef
      atalef 21 November 2013 12: 38
      +7
      Quote: Volodya Sibiryak
      Why won't they leave? Where should they go? Who awaits them in their historical homeland? Its unemployed dimes.

      But it’s a pity that Russia first of all needs Russians (ethnically), it is clear that it’s easier to import Gaster and spend money on olympiads, but it is asked why there is money for this, but there is no Ivan Ivanich who wants to return to Ivanov’s homeland to relocate? In general, it’s a shame, here you have ready-made specialists, loyal people, ready to work, why not create real conditions for resettlement?
      I do not want to give the example of Israel, but in the 90s Israel accepted and settled 1 million (with a population of 6 million), the fruits of this he is reaping now, including that giant leap forward in industry and science, Germany received more than 1.2 million people , Greece - tens of thousands --- why can't Russia? Why the Russians do not have enough work for themselves, if we thought so, neither the "Russians", let alone Ethiopians, would never have got to Israel.
      1. Walking
        Walking 21 November 2013 13: 44
        12
        The article correctly says that we are Russians of Kazakhstan, other Russians, we may be more Russian than Russians in Russia and this will not be said in reproach.
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 21 November 2013 14: 43
          11
          Quote: Hiking
          The article correctly says that we are Russians of Kazakhstan, other Russians, we may be more Russian than Russians in Russia and this will not be said in reproach.

          Almost all my acquaintances, Russian Kazakhs, constantly mention in conversations about their differences from Russian Russians. And it's hard to argue with that. And the majority of Kazakhs consider our Russians to be different from Russian ones. Even if a Kazakh is a terrible nationalist and Rossiiafob, even he usually clearly distinguishes between the "Russians" of Russia and the "Russians" of Kazakhstan. The second are "ours".
          The most important difference is that our Russians have more pronounced positive features inherent in the Russian ethnic group - adequate thinking, hospitality, courage, internationalism, hard work, less addiction to addictions.
          Russian Kazakhs taught the Kazakhs a lot, and in turn learned a lot from the Kazakhs. Cultures are mutually enriched and made stronger.
          The Kazakh can calmly quote any excerpts from Russian literature, and the Russian Kazakhstani can reproach the Kazakh in a dispute somewhere, defending himself with the words of Abay’s edification.
          Every Russian in Kazakhstan eagerly feasts on horsemeat, and Kazakh gladly eats a plate or two of borsch or pancakes.
          The phrase from the lips of my Russian friends: "Come in the evening, we have prepared beshbarmak" is very common. True, beshbarmak can be prepared from beef with potatoes, and from chicken, if there is no horse meat or lamb at hand))))
          Russian Kazakhs have a peculiar accent that they do not even realize. They pronounce many sounds in the Kazakh manner, even if they do not speak Kazakh at all ("Kaneshna" (of course), "Orbita" (orbit), "BYL" (with the pronunciation of the sound "Y" in the Kazakh manner), etc. ) and even chatter quickly, as is typical of the Kazakh speech. Russians speak slower)))
          Because I lived in Russia, and only in the 90s moved to KZ, so I know the difference between the "Kazakh" dialect of Russian Kazakhs and the Russian speech of the regions. Although when I say that Russian Kazakhs speak differently than Russians, they usually disagree and argue. Although they themselves always "ransom" a Russian as soon as he starts talking))))
          And not only the Kazakh influence was on the Russians, but also Ukrainian, German, Korean, Uyghur, because in the KZ everyone lives mixed up. Many Russians will not blink an eye if they are offered Korean spicy foods and salads. And then they can easily grind a dog. For most Russians, dog-breeding (or horse meat) is unacceptable.
          Yes, Kazakhs are divided into zhuzes and clans. But jokes are jokes, and our Russian-speaking people are already called the "fourth zhuz" with the subgenus "orys", "nemis", "ukraine", "korea" laughing What? Arabs (now the clan "Kozha") and the Mongol-speaking Dzungars / Oirats / Kalmyks (clans "Oirat", "Kalmak", etc.) joined the clan Kazakh system)))
          Russian Kazakhstanis must remain Russians и Kazakhstan people... This is their uniqueness, this is their advantage over the "Russian Russians" and "Kazakh Kazakhs".
          1. Beck
            Beck 21 November 2013 16: 52
            +8
            Quote: Hiking
            The article correctly says that we are Russians of Kazakhstan, other Russians, we may be more Russian than Russians in Russia and this will not be said in reproach.


            Quote: Marek Rozny
            Almost all my acquaintances, Russian Kazakhstanis, constantly mention in their conversations about their differences from Russian Russians. And it's hard to challenge it.


            Yeah. Our Russians are Russians. According to history, Russians with the most energetic mentality traveled to Kazakhstan. It was not easy to abandon habitable places in the Tambov region, Smolensk region and follow the Stolypin reform to go to the Unknown (to the Basurmans). It was not easy for Russian Cossacks to go to Semirechye from Omsk to equip the Semirechye Cossack army. The tsarist regime exiled to Kazakhstan a variety of freethinkers, from the anarchists to the Bolsheviks. The Soviet regime exiled to Kazakhstan the salt of the Russian land - kulaks, this standard of prudent agriculture. The most energetic youth also went to shock construction sites and to the virgin lands. All this mixed up and gave our Russians.

            For many Kazakhs, our Russian will be dearer to one blood relatives or another.
            1. Igor Ovcharov
              Igor Ovcharov 10 July 2017 06: 25
              +1
              The main thing here is that you do not forget these words when Natsik (God forbid) come after Nazarbay (long years of his life).
              And it will turn out like with the Ukrainians, they, too, until a certain time, were also roughly expressed, and then they seemed to be completely embarrassing ... Well, you yourself know! wink
    3. Max_Bauder
      Max_Bauder 21 November 2013 13: 20
      +9
      It seems to me that in the current geopolitical situation, Russia and Kazakhstan only need to unite, the Customs Union, joint border guards, common missile defense, interaction of the Armies, for the enemy is from the outside. Against this background, the resettlement of people from Kazakhstan to Russia looks like a "resettlement" of lice from the groin to the butt, there and there hair, no difference. =)
    4. Bath
      Bath 16 June 2017 15: 44
      0
      Oh well in the Kazakh country live))))
    5. Weyland
      Weyland 21 June 2017 00: 46
      +1
      Quote: Volodya Sibiryak
      Where should they go?

      What the article says in plain text:
      “Formally, Russia everywhere and everywhere advocates for the protection of Russians anywhere in the world. Actually, it is a question of the Russian government’s refusal to act as a refuge state for Russians. Any Jew on the planet knows that if anti-Semitic sentiments arise in his country of residence regardless of citizenship, Germany accepted the Volga Germans 200 years after their ancestors left their homeland and granted them citizenship - simply because they are Germans.
      When the anti-Chinese pogroms began in the Solomon Islands, this caused immediate intervention by the government of the PRC. The Chinese evacuated approximately 300 citizens to China from the rioting island nation. Note, the Chinese government saved the Chinese simply because they are Chinese, and not at all - citizens of the PRC. Moreover, China does not have diplomatic relations with the Solomon Islands (the latter recognize Taiwan as the “Republic of China”).
      Russia is not yet a refuge state for its ethnic group; it does not support Russians abroad. Ethnic Russian cannot automatically receive Russian citizenship. "

      And forever be damned and EBN with all your kind am am am to the end of the century, and every single filthy deputy am adopting such laws! In the 9th circle of hell, all this is Judas seed! May their life be short and death long!
    6. Spnsr
      Spnsr 25 July 2017 19: 13
      0
      Quote: Volodya Sibiryak
      Why won't they leave? Where should they go? Who awaits them in their historical homeland? Its unemployed dimes.

      there is their historical homeland
  2. makarov
    makarov 21 November 2013 07: 35
    +5
    Ehm ...
    Everywhere is good, where we are not.
  3. svskor80
    svskor80 21 November 2013 08: 26
    +2
    Recently, it has become more noticeable (perhaps it is somehow connected with the crisis in Russia) that Kazakh Russians are increasingly feeling that the government and the population of Russia no longer regard them as "their own".

    It’s a very controversial statement, the population of Russia belongs to Russians abroad in a completely related way, but to come to Russia is certainly difficult, there’s nothing special to help, even if people were given land without problems.
  4. saag
    saag 21 November 2013 08: 30
    +2
    The author writes from the position of a Russian, perhaps he does not know some of the nuances, as in his speech at a forum of businessmen in Turkey he stated that Kazakhstan was first oppressed by the Russian Empire, then by the Soviet Union, and with the help of the Almighty they gained independence in 1991, i.e. ... publicly declares who is who at the highest and international level. Internationalism is dead, no one proclaims it publicly, behind the scenes, a course towards a mono-national state. Society "Lad" and the like are more decoration. People went and will go, they are simply limited by the fact that it is not so easy for all the camp in the "open field" to withdraw at once, secondly, this is obtaining accelerated citizenship only according to the program, which creates certain inconveniences with the regions of settlement
  5. ed65b
    ed65b 21 November 2013 08: 35
    0
    The author poured water, mixed everything in one pile, pulled him by the ears, refuted himself, in a word, a graduate of the Fulbright program. Doesn’t.
  6. sashka
    sashka 21 November 2013 08: 57
    +8
    From "good" "good" is not looking .. Where to go and why.? The point is to twitch if you know that it won't be better? And no one is waiting and nobody wants you? My Rod 95 people have moved, so what? They just sent and no problem .. With words and who invited you here? But we are ALL RUSSIAN ..
    1. ed65b
      ed65b 21 November 2013 18: 05
      0
      I don’t know how Sasha worked there. My all got out of the way and pulled out the penultimate one from Uzbekistan last year; You have to go to the right places. In particular, to Siberia, there is a simplified citizenship program.
      1. Weyland
        Weyland 21 June 2017 00: 48
        0
        Quote: ed65b
        In particular, to Siberia, there is a simplified citizenship program.

        Yeah, and generous offers of work with a salary of 3000 rubles (no, I didn’t miss a toe - I personally saw it on the list of “offers” - true, 5 years ago, but even then I had to hit in the teeth for such offers!)
  7. saag
    saag 21 November 2013 09: 01
    0
    Quote: Sasha
    And no one is waiting and nobody wants you?

    And why should this be an obstacle, it smacks of some kind of dependency, you need only one thing - the ability to quickly, without red tape, get citizenship, the rest - we can take our own
  8. Beck
    Beck 21 November 2013 09: 05
    16
    Yeah. Admin plus. Against the background of other articles in the past that only complicated the situation.

    I do not agree with the author in some formulations, but this is a personal matter for everyone, and I agree with his style of presentation. Without hysteria, without falsehood, without terrible inventions of the average man. Everything is real, sober, calm.

    Domestic nationalism broke out in the CIS in the beginning of the 90s; in Kazakhstan, it quickly and died away. State nationalism, socio-informational, ideological never existed in Kazakhstan. Not to be confused with Kazakh Urashniki, they do not make the weather outside.

    To Kazakhstan, this wave of population departure in the nineties, Russians, Germans, Caucasians, Greeks and others, to their historical homelands brought only losses. Kazakhstan with its territory and natural resources is tritely lacking in the population and will not be enough for a long time to come.
  9. sashka
    sashka 21 November 2013 09: 08
    +3
    Quote: saag
    you need only one thing - the ability to quickly, without red tape, get citizenship,

    This turned out to be the MAIN problem .. Two years is fast and without red tape?
  10. Astronomer
    Astronomer 21 November 2013 09: 08
    +8
    The Russians from Kazakhstan will never leave ... And not that not all ... After all, those who left (read - escaped), in fact, betrayed the interests of Russia ...
    Carefully consider the maps of the 18-19th centuries, read the Treaties, just study the sequence of historical events without coloring their black and white tones - sequence, logic and only, and you will understand that abandoning Kazakhstan is crazy for Russia as a whole.
    1. Weyland
      Weyland 21 June 2017 00: 49
      0
      Quote: Astronom
      After all, those who left (read - escaped), in fact, betrayed the interests of Russia ...

      stop This Russian authorities meanly betrayed us all - to Yeltsin to hell of all the filthy deputy am adopting such laws!
  11. Clegg
    Clegg 21 November 2013 09: 23
    12
    1. The number of Russians is 3,7 million, not 4
    2. If the Russians want to go to Russia, no one should interfere. Man is free to live wherever he wants.
    3. The process of Kazakhization will continue, regardless of what Russia thinks or does not think about it. It's unavoidable.
    1. Weyland
      Weyland 21 June 2017 00: 51
      +1
      Quote: Clegg
      The process of Kazakhization will continue, regardless of what Russia thinks or does not think about it. It's unavoidable.

      And wait for what they deserve:
      Kara Kytay kaptasa - sary orys akeney bolar! (sorry, there is no Kazakh keyboard layout - but I hope you will understand!)
  12. saag
    saag 21 November 2013 09: 25
    -4
    Quote: Astronom
    Russians from Kazakhstan will never leave.

    They will leave, some outside of Kazakhstan, others outside of life in general
  13. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 21 November 2013 09: 33
    +2
    Quote: "The stereotypical perception of a Russian from Kazakhstan who moved there from Kazakhstan should be considered prevailing today in almost all regions of Russia. like a Kazakh "Other" Russian. Although external anthropological signs remained on the face: Slavic facial features, blue-gray eyes, blonde hair, excellent knowledge of the Russian language, customs, traditions, Orthodox religion, etc. "
    I want to note to the author that he is Russian in Africa - Russian. Who can distinguish Russian from Kazakhstan from Russian from Turkmenistan? We all Russian want to live in Russia. And the state, finally, must do everything for the Russian people to return to their historical Motherland.
    1. diver1977
      diver1977 21 November 2013 10: 13
      12
      I don’t know, Ivanovich. I was on a business trip when I was in Moscow - Russian Russians are different from Kazakhstan, I noticed that. Many of them. Psychologically, externally. Outwardly higher and larger, lighter. Psychologically - more aggressive, meaner or something. Our Kazakhstani Russians are just ours and that's it.

      It seems to me that the outflow of the Russian population from Kazakhstan is a purely economic problem. Russians have lived in Kazakhstan for centuries, they came here in different ways, including Karlag, forgotten by the author. And it must be solved by economic methods (what needs to be decided is obvious, since I cannot imagine Kazakhstan without Russians). If we have better living conditions than in the Russian Federation, then no one will leave without extreme need, excluding natural migration processes. But in principle no one listens to the patriots. Natsik ka clowns from time to time jump, wave their hands, earn points. Now is the time to work, not the right to download.
      And about work - my classmate and friend named Semyon has a salary of $ 30 a month, in the company he has risen from an English translator to the very top with his extremely smart head, for which everyone respects him very much. But he says, for example, "I don't see myself here in the future." He wants to leave. But not to Russia, but to the States, I always wanted to live there, since school.
      1. Black Colonel
        Black Colonel 22 November 2013 14: 19
        +1
        "... when I was in Moscow, Russian Russians somehow differ from Kazakhs, I noticed it."
        Moscow is not all of Russia. There, people are really different, and from the rest of Russia too. Yes, and under the Soviets was also different. On the periphery is the same as in large cities. So, judging by all the Russians in one capital will be too one-sided.
  14. Archikah
    Archikah 21 November 2013 09: 53
    +3
    I disagree with the calls to return. The Cossacks lived in ethical enclaves. Then, too, there were a lot of all kinds of Basmachi and they, too, did not speak Russian in the overwhelming majority. So what. Tsarist Russia - created enclaves of Russian Cossacks from which later zones of influence on local elites were created. Of course, this is possible with a coherent Moscow policy. But. The situation is at an impasse. And at the turn of 2000, many immigrants from the "fraternal" republics dangled around Mother Russia. So their hearts sank from how they had to survive.
  15. Nomad
    Nomad 21 November 2013 10: 07
    +9
    "The official history of Russian-Kazakh relations begins on October 10, 1731".
    Wrong. This is the date of the adoption of Russian citizenship by Junior Zhuz. Kazakh-Russian relations began under Ivan the Terrible. There are indirect indications of establishing contacts under Basil III.
    “Mass social territorial mobility of Russians to the territory of Kazakhstan began approximately in the middle of the XNUMXth century.” Again, it is wrong. There was no mass resettlement in the XNUMXth century and could not be. It began in the second half of the XNUMXth century.
    But in general, a quick look, the article is reasonable and balanced, unlike many other Russian articles on this subject with screeches about the Russian genocide.
    1. Walking
      Walking 21 November 2013 13: 51
      +7
      Yes, the article is largely happy written correctly. I am glad that the author did not set out to write chernukha.
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 21 November 2013 16: 13
      +3
      Quote: Nomad
      "The official history of Russian-Kazakh relations begins on October 10, 1731".
      Wrong. This is the date of the adoption of Russian citizenship by Junior Zhuz. Kazakh-Russian relations began under Ivan the Terrible.

      Indeed, official relations between the Kazakh Khanate and Muscovy began under Ivan the Terrible and Khak-Nazar. Moreover, not just diplomatic relations, but allied ones. Moreover, the Kazakhs were the only Turkic khanate, which from the very beginning created equal friendly relations, despite the fact that the remaining fragments of the Horde were at enmity on the principle of "all against all".
      It is possible to interpret the actions of the Kazakh khans in different ways, which attacked the opponents of Muscovy (siblings of the Nogais, Siberians and Bashkirs) for their part, but the fact remains that even then we were allies.

      Z.Y. But it must be recalled that the Nogais and Siberians are essentially the same Kazakhs, but ruled by other Genghisides. So in relation to them - these were fratricidal wars. Hack Nazar pursued his political ambitious goals. And in principle, he achieved them, thanks to which, the Kazakh Khanate became the largest Turkic entity on the ruins of the Horde. Who knows - if the Kazakhs were not aggressive towards their consanguineous neighbors, then we would be a small Turkic-speaking people living in a small territory, like the current Nogais or Siberian Tatars, or even be completely absorbed by relatives (the same Nogais , Siberians or nomadic Uzbeks of Abulkhayir). And certainly we would not have survived the Dzungar strike if we had not incorporated the Turkic relatives from the West and the North into our growing ethnic group.
      1. Zymran
        Zymran 21 November 2013 16: 30
        +4
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        It is possible to interpret the actions of the Kazakh khans in different ways, which attacked the opponents of Muscovy (siblings of the Nogais, Siberians and Bashkirs) for their part, but the fact remains that even then we were allies.


        Quote: Marek Rozny

        Z.Y. But it must be recalled that the Nogais and Siberians are essentially the same Kazakhs, but ruled by other Genghisides. So in relation to them - these were fratricidal wars. Hack Nazar pursued his political ambitious goals


        Marek under Hak Nazar, the Nogais were vassals of Muscovy, moreover, the Russians rendered military assistance to them by sending a detachment of archers, which drove the Kazakhs away from the vicinity of Astrakhan.

        One should not imagine his military operations as some kind of help to the Russians. He had his own interests, which sometimes intersected with Moscow — the war against Kuchum, and sometimes even contradicted them — the war against the Nogaev.
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 21 November 2013 17: 05
          +3
          Quote: Zymran
          under Hak Nazar, the Nogais were vassals of Muscovy; moreover, the Russians rendered military assistance to them by sending a detachment of archers.

          Quote: Zymran
          and sometimes they were contradicted - the war against the feet.

          It was to beginning of relations between the Kazakh Khanate and Muscovy. At first, the Nogais (Russian subjects) really asked for military assistance from Moscow. But very soon the Nogais rebelled against Moscow (and Kuchum rebelled immediately after that) and then he sent Hack Nazar first embassy Ivan the Terrible. After which, the Kazakhs launched an attack on the Nogais, Bashkirs and Siberians, which clearly indicates that the Muscovites and Kazakhs acted together.
          Quote: Zymran
          He had his own interests, which sometimes intersected with Moscow - the war against Kuchum

          Well, what is "alliance" then? Intersection of interests. Ivan the Terrible and Khaknazar had to defeat the Nogai and Siberians. They did it. The lion's share of the Siberian Khanate and the Nogai Horde became part of the growing Kazakh Khanate. Look at the map of these non-Kazakh khanates - this is a hefty chunk of today's Kazakhstan. Grozny had to eliminate the military threat from these states. in alliance with the Crimeans and others, they really could crush the Moscow ulus in the bud. Khaknazar needed the land of the Nogai and Siberians. Interests (not contradicting each other) coincided absolutely.
          And now the modern interests of the Republic of Kazakhstan and the Russian Federation as a whole coincide completely. And this is the basis of the coexistence of two countries that consider themselves to be historical allies.
    3. Kunar
      Kunar 18 July 2017 09: 42
      0
      )))) Kazakhs of Alexander Nevsky consider Aruah .....
  16. Nomad
    Nomad 21 November 2013 10: 11
    +2
    Assessment of Interethnic Relations in Kazakhstan
    http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D1%86%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%BC%D0%B5%D
    0%B6%D1%8D%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%85_%D0%BE%D1%82%D0
    %BD%D0%BE%D1%88%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%B2_%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%85%D1
    %81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B5
    1. The comment was deleted.
  17. Rinat 1
    Rinat 1 21 November 2013 10: 23
    10
    A good article, in principle, is as in the article. And as for work, many Kazakhs themselves cannot get good places because of tribal troubles. Although now there is already a tendency for qualified and educated people to work in spite of the nation, kinship, etc.
  18. major071
    major071 21 November 2013 11: 15
    10
    I don’t know how others, but I liked the article. I have relatives living in the same Aktobe region. and in Aktobe itself, it’s full. We constantly communicate, we go to visit each other, since the border is not locked. They are not going to leave from there, I like everything. Maybe the factor also played a role here, that Aktobe and the region are located next to Russia and during the Soviet era had extensive connections with the Orenburg region. We ourselves in the city of Kazakhs percent 10-15 population. good
    1. sashka
      sashka 28 November 2013 17: 28
      0
      Quote: major071
      We ourselves in the city of Kazakhs percent 10-15 of the population.

      And if vice versa? What then? Who will you be?
  19. Asan Ata
    Asan Ata 21 November 2013 11: 36
    11
    I have a lawyer, Stepan. Russian guy. Somehow I give him a document in Russian, to work. He says: aha '(respectful address in Kazakh to the elder), but in Kazakh is there, is it easier for me? She speaks excellent Kazakh and, of course, Russian. Nice guy, hard worker. So: while in the country in which you live, you do not learn the language, laws, rules of life, you have no peace, you all want to disappear somewhere. This applies to any country, be it Kazakhstan or Russia. drinks
  20. ed65b
    ed65b 21 November 2013 11: 57
    0
    And where in the statistics Russians from Uzbekistan have gone. and another question, to see the Russians living in Tajikistan is better than the minimum percentage in Kazakhstan. I do not believe. statistics are incomprehensible. Did the author invent the numbers himself?
    1. Zymran
      Zymran 21 November 2013 18: 19
      +3
      Maybe it's not specifically Russian, but in general citizens of countries without reference to the nat. accessories?
  21. George
    George 21 November 2013 12: 06
    0
    Hello everyone .
    In principle, one should not forget about such non-Slavic approximately 15% of the total population of Russian-speaking ethnic groups living in Kazakhstan

    gypsies

    Do not forget at all.
  22. Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 21 November 2013 12: 26
    +3
    All this is very familiar.
    Formally, Russia everywhere and everywhere advocates for the protection of Russians anywhere in the world. In reality, this is about the refusal of the Russian authorities to act as a refuge state for Russians.

    I confirm.
    Okay, the endless cries of the titular fascists - the FEM (suitcase, train station, Russia), are used to, and even they have begun to get tired, disgusted and insulting to hear yapping from Russia that they supposedly betrayed Russia, they sold out to Europe. RAVE! fool angry To whom there was something and where, and other circumstances allowed, they left ... And they say from there, do not go ...
  23. marshes
    marshes 21 November 2013 13: 47
    +6

    He comes to the comic, about the Kazakh language, his grandfather was born and lived all his life in Kazakhstan. He was taken to Germany in a serious condition, dying. When he starts to speak Kazakh, they were shocked at the hospital. Relatives in Germany in the store, in certain cases, switch to Kazakh . The niece who was born in Taraz, knows 4 languages ​​and Kazakh, asked how you managed, a simple language for constructing sentences is similar to German and English.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 21 November 2013 14: 52
      +3

      Marina Volnova is a Kazakhstan athlete, Olympic champion.
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 21 November 2013 15: 02
        +3

        And this is my friend - Kostya Kharlamov. A wonderful person, optimist, joker and an excellent master in his work.
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 21 November 2013 15: 04
          +2
          Another beauty is Almaty Tatyana Eremina.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 21 November 2013 15: 10
            +5

            Another beautiful girl is Anna Danchenko. And there are more and more such people.

            ZY Does it seem to me or do all Russians who speak the Kazakh language look very perfumed, whole and just beautiful people? ))) Language will not turn to call them "oppressed", "forcibly Kazakhified" or losers. Moreover, knowledge of the Kazakh language is the tool that helps them achieve great success in life in comparison with mono-lingual Kazakhs and even bilingual Kazakhs.
            Z.Z.Y. And people who slop down the Kazakh (or Russian) language are usually 100% losers with health problems, psyche, and even appearance)))
            1. ed65b
              ed65b 21 November 2013 18: 08
              +2
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Z.Z.Y. And people who slop down the Kazakh (or Russian) language are usually 100% losers with health problems, psyche, and even appearance)))

              Your conclusions are rather strange.
  24. reality
    reality 21 November 2013 13: 49
    +7
    The article is absolutely adequate, just a lot of generalizations, because the question is voluminous.
    For me, this question is even simpler. The author did not write that everyone surrounding the Kazakhs, Turkic and Persian peoples, they are not friends. The Uzbeks are old enemies, they don’t like Kyrgyz people either, they say wild mountainous traitors, they don’t like Uyghurs like Jews, Kalmyks (Jungars) will never be forgotten. So it turns out that only with the Russians there is no history of genocide. This is felt in everyday life, - an aul taxi driver who does not speak Russian well will tell you about his whole family how much money he has, etc., and if the Turks sit in the car for no reason, then the taxi driver becomes silent, puts on a mask. This is not always, but do not say that this is not.
    Previously, the Russians were at the top of the social ladder, then we were shown our place. Warm, but still indicated. We are sitting there. Now the question is, when will the Kazakhs come to terms with us as equals? Then there will be real Kazakhstan. The path to a mono-ethnic state or back to colonial dependence is a step backward for all Kazakhstanis.
    1. diver1977
      diver1977 21 November 2013 14: 07
      +7
      Fiercely plus. As for recognition as equal - those who are in power and Kazakhs are not considered equal. Apparently power is a separate nationality. And for the most part, those who are in power come from rural areas, urban ones are more Russified and open to everything new.
      1. Black Colonel
        Black Colonel 22 November 2013 14: 27
        +4
        "Apparently, the authorities are a separate nationality."
        Buddy Your phrase is for all time !!! +
    2. Zymran
      Zymran 21 November 2013 15: 00
      +4
      Quote: reality
      . The author did not write that everyone surrounding the Kazakhs, Turkic and Persian peoples, they are not friends. The Uzbeks are old enemies, they don’t like Kyrgyz people either, they say wild mountainous traitors, they don’t like Uyghurs like Jews, Kalmyks (Jungars) will never be forgotten.


      Come on. Household hostility such as dislike for Muscovites or Kuban.

      Quote: reality
      So it turns out that only with the Russians there is no history of genocide.


      I mean with the Uzbeks, Kyrgyz and Uighurs there was a story with genocide? fool

      Quote: reality
      Previously, the Russians were at the top of the social ladder, then we were shown our place. Warm, but still indicated. We are sitting there. Now the question is, when will the Kazakhs come to terms with us as equals? Then there will be real Kazakhstan. The path to a mono-ethnic state or back to colonial dependence is a step backward for all Kazakhstanis.


      I completely and unconditionally agree with this !! drinks
      1. Weyland
        Weyland 21 June 2017 01: 44
        0
        Quote: Zymran
        I mean with the Uzbeks, Kyrgyz and Uighurs there was a story with genocide?

        It was. With a shibbolet (even with the almost complete coincidence of the "sign word"): in Kokand, EMNIP, about 160 years ago, the guards showed an ear of wheat to everyone they met and asked: "Isn’t you?"
        Who answered: "Bugday" or "Buudai" - they let go, who answered: "bid" - immediately head off your shoulders.
    3. Clegg
      Clegg 23 November 2013 12: 09
      +4
      Quote: reality
      from and it turns out that only with the Russians there is no history of genocide.

      Wise guy, what happened in the 1920s and 1931-33s?
      1. Weyland
        Weyland 21 June 2017 01: 46
        0
        Have ukrov read about the "famine"? And in the Volga region in those same years, who was the genocide of the Russians? If there was genocide, it wasn’t carried out by the Russians, but by that unnamed people, of which in those years 85% of the Politburo (in Kazakhstan, in particular, Shaya Goloshchyokin)
      2. Kunar
        Kunar 18 July 2017 09: 48
        0
        And what happened? Goloshchekin stained everyone .... And Kazakhs, and Russians, and Uighurs with Dungans ....
  25. marshes
    marshes 21 November 2013 14: 08
    +3
    Quote: reality
    Now the question is, when will the Kazakhs come to terms with us as equals?

    Do not be offended when there are more than 10% of conscripts in the army, then there will be confidence, because sometimes akims and deputies of maskhlikats have dual citizenship, which is prohibited by the constitution of Kazakhstan. And there is no extradition or "they raise a wave."
    Without a military ID and an oath, the path to government agencies is "barred".
  26. reality
    reality 21 November 2013 15: 05
    +8
    And we argue that not all Kazakhs working in state structures have a "red" military ID? That is, their loyalty to the state formally (and indeed) is not higher than mine. Maybe among the Kazakhs, by definition, there are no people ready to betray their country for personal gain? And what about women?
    Yes, I agree that a real fraternity is forged in the army. But from the life experience of the comrades who served, I’ll say - there it most often remains. In civilian life, everyone pretty quickly diverges in their ethno-social niches.
    So I used to go in for sports, I didn’t achieve anything, but I really dreamed))) And I dreamed of climbing the top step of the podium and turning into a blue flag. In my life there were only two flags - red and blue. I respect the tricolor, I am a fan of him, but - he is with his neighbors. I know a little Kazakh, but I won’t pass the exam. Why are you sure that you cannot trust me, or people like me?
    Many Russians say that Russian means honor, loyalty to duty and homeland. So if I want to be Russian, then I must faithfully serve my homeland. And my fatherland is in Kazakhstan. I like to think so.
    1. marshes
      marshes 21 November 2013 15: 32
      +5
      Well, in state structures, people with higher education, the presence of red in many is green, of. Reserve, due to the end of these educational institutions. Yes, there is a problem with women, even Kazakh women hardly make their way into the power circle.
      At the expense of trust, you need to earn it somehow. As long as it’s quiet and smooth, it’s hard to judge a person.
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 21 November 2013 15: 36
      +7
      Do not worry. You are not higher and not lower than Kazakhs. You are in the place where you put yourself.
      I am a Kazakh born in Orenburg. I am a fan of both Russia and Kazakhstan. It does not interfere. Debilov, who try to consider themselves above the rest solely on the basis of nationality, is always enough in any environment. Put them in their place.
      My Russian friends have never heard "Suitcase, station, Russia" in their lives, well, for the life of me, Kazakhs do not show any hostile feelings towards them. And if they were mumbles who whined how they were allegedly infringed upon, then the phrase "Go to Russia" they would have heard every day. Why do we need whiners, weaklings? The more of these knocked out of the KZ - the better. Let the best and most worthy remain. People are wealth that is worth more than oil, metals, herds and wheat. It is better to send the weak link to all four sides and leave those who every Kazakhstani will be proud of.
      The state policy and ideology of Kazakhstan is very simple: we, the single people that should become the most competitive in the world. This is an ambitious task designed for decades. We need better people, regardless of their ethnic background. This is the only way to create a Power.
      Each Kazakhstani citizen should speak at least three languages ​​(Kazakh, Russian, English), should have the best world education, should be athletic and healthy, should be patriotic, should be open to the world and absorb all the best from other countries, must adhere to moral and ethical standards. This is not my bravado, this is an ongoing state policy.
      We have a lot to learn. To be precise and orderly as the Germans, to be adventurous as the Americans, to be responsible as the Japanese, to be hardworking as the Chinese, to be educated as Singaporeans. And at the same time preserve all our traditional positive qualities inherent in the Eurasian peoples - courage, generosity, hospitality, quick wit, generosity.
      Who does not want to realize this - let him bring down from Kazakhstan. And the faster, the better, and we all need to change ourselves and change our state. Every day, drop by drop, but without stopping.
      1. ed65b
        ed65b 21 November 2013 18: 19
        0
        Have you forgotten Chinese? China is already close by and breathes garlic pepper in the face. so the priority is not right. and by the way, what about the Russians somehow forgotten, nothing to learn? But the Russians beat them all the time. Well, unless they got to Singapore. laughing
        1. Zymran
          Zymran 21 November 2013 18: 25
          +4
          Quote: ed65b
          Have you forgotten Chinese? China is already close by and breathes garlic pepper in the face


          Quite a few students are currently studying in China. Education is good and inexpensive, even by our standards.
        2. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 21 November 2013 19: 54
          +5
          Quote: ed65b
          Have you forgotten Chinese?

          I spoke about those languages ​​whose command of the state is a priority. A Kazakhstani wants to know German or Chinese - this is his personal wish. And knowledge of Kazakh, Russian and English is an obligatory norm for the future Kazakhstani who now goes to kindergarten.
          In addition, knowledge of a Chinese or other foreign language in Kazakhstan is not uncommon. I have two brothers studying in China (one sister studied in the USA, another studied in the Czech Republic, now in Austria, one more is going to enter a German university).
          Quote: ed65b
          and by the way, what about the Russians somehow forgotten, nothing to learn?
          Studying at Russian universities in Moscow, St. Petersburg and Siberia is a common thing with us, you can not even mention this. So don’t worry. Another thing is that, unfortunately, Russian academic education is inferior to foreign academic education (especially because of the poor material base), so Kazakhstanis are trying to get education in the best universities in the world. The number of Kazakhs in prestigious western universities exceeds the total number of students in them from the CIS. The state systematically invests large amounts of money in youth education in the best universities in the world. Every year, up to 2000 schoolchildren and students under the state program go abroad. In addition, a lot of people send their children to study abroad on their own, even if they have to take a loan from the bank for this.
          Kazakhstan itself is beginning to create a new educational system, which should become no less prestigious than studying at Harvard and Oxford. Of course, this is still a long way off, but the main thing is that officials have a desire to do this, an understanding of how to do this and money to implement these ambitious plans. Not without errors, but the process is ongoing. If you look at the results of international school olympiads, you will definitely see a Kazakhstani student-prize-winner, which causes a fierce butchert for all British and Austrians. However, they once freaked out when the Japanese, Singaporeans, Koreans, Hong Kongs appeared in the first places, and now they don’t even kick)))


          A picture showing the places of students in mathematics. Adapted from an English article: "British pupils 'lead the western world at maths' - but Borat's glorious nation of Kazakhstan puts us to shame" Laura Clark ("British schoolchildren have overtaken everyone in the Western world in mathematics, but the Kazakh nation of Borat put us to shame")

          http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1093174/British-pupils-lead-western-worl


          d-maths - Borats-glorious-nation-Kazakhstan-puts-shame.html
    3. Kasym
      Kasym 21 November 2013 18: 59
      +8
      reality. Once one official said: "I understand that I will not become the president. Because the Uyghur. But I would like to grow up to the prime minister." I think you know who we are talking about. And I would trust you more than any agashka. So go ahead! hi
  27. reality
    reality 21 November 2013 15: 13
    +4
    Zymran, I exaggerate of course, the term is completely different. But the Bukhara and Khiva khans, as far as I know, constantly tried to subjugate the Kazakh clans, and were not scrupulous. For some reason, none of the local Türks love Uygirov. When the conquest of Turkestan was going on, only Kazakh volunteers helped the Russian troops. Why?
    1. Zymran
      Zymran 21 November 2013 15: 43
      +5
      More precisely, they tried to subjugate Khiva and Kokand, the Bukhara emirs basically demanded nothing but respect for themselves and a small tax. In general, this process was much more complicated than it is considered. For example, the troops of the Kokand Khanate consisted largely of Kazakhs, and in the Tashkent district, Kazakhs generally formed the basis of the troops. This is the data of Ch. Valikhanov. However, I do not deny bloody wars and devastating raids both from the side of the Central Asian khanates and against them.

      Simply, "voluntary joining Russia" was not bloodless and not always voluntary.


      Quote: reality
      When the conquest of Turkestan was going on, only Kazakh volunteers helped the Russian troops. Why?


      In fact, a much larger number of Kazakhs still fought against the Russian troops. You can read about this, for example, from General Terentyev in the "Conquest of Central Asia" or from Anichkov in the work "The Kyrgyz hero Dzhankhoja Nurmukhamedov".
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 21 November 2013 16: 54
        +5
        Quote: Zymran
        For example, the troops of the Kokand Khanate consisted largely of Kazakhs

        Before the accession of the Kazakhs to Russia, it was so. But when Russia invaded the Central Asian states (and Kazakhstan was already part of the Russian Empire), the Kokand army at that time no longer consisted of Kazakh mercenaries. There were Sarts, Iranians, and Turkmens. The Kazakhs were on the other side. Only a small part of the "Kyrgyz" (and these were usually sedentary poor peasants who were no longer free nomads and grunts) who lived in these khanates took part in the battles against the Russian army.
        As for the regular clashes between Kazakhs and Russians, these are usually squabbles between Kazakhs and Orenburg and Ural Cossacks for pastures. Or the showdown between Kazakhs and Kazakhs, where Russian soldiers were attracted to the side of the Kazakh official. And often - a banal boom: that the Cossacks, that the Kazakhs regularly indulged in it. Only offended Cossacks, in case of failure, immediately complained to the tsarist administration, and they sent a "punitive detachment" who stupidly wetted the first aul that came across, even if he was not in business. Well, or in general, having searched the steppe for several days, I came back with a zero result, since the Russians did not know how to look for Kazakhs-barymtachi and they could not stroll along the steppe for a long time.
        As for Zhankozhi Nurmukhamedov, he himself beat the Khivans during the Russian conquest of the Central Asian khanates and was a loyal Russian subject))) And only when Russia liquidated the khan’s power and Kenesary’s khan rebelled against this step, Zhankozh joined the khan. It should be noted that most of the Kazakhs did not support the disgraced Kenesary, and therefore he did not have support in the Steppe and had to move to the Kyrgyz borders. 90-year-old Zhankozh during the time departed from the Kenesary rebellion and even received the rank of Yesaul (including gifts and money) from the imperial army. But he not only refused Russian gifts, but also began his rebellion, because the tsarist government began to annoy the Caspian Kazakhs (forced labor by decision of the Orenburg administration, road taxes, the seizure of Kazakh land for the needs of colonial policy). These reasons soon became the basis for numerous disputes and conflicts between the Kazakhs and the tsarist administration, and eventually resulted in a bloody uprising of 1916.
        But Kazakhs did not fight on the side of the "Uzbeks" (Khivans, Kokands, Bukharians). They defended their interests, but were always aggressive towards the Sarts. There was no real Khiva-Kazakh or Kokand-Kazakh military cooperation.
        So, in the conquest of the Central Asian states, the Kazakhs were almost completely and completely on the side of the Russians. But this did not mean that these same Kazakhs did not oppose the Russians when the tsarist government infringed on Kazakh rights.
        1. Zymran
          Zymran 21 November 2013 17: 52
          +3
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          Before the accession of the Kazakhs to Russia, it was so. But when Russia invaded the Central Asian states (and Kazakhstan was already part of the Russian Empire), the Kokand army at that time no longer consisted of Kazakh mercenaries. There were Sarts, Iranians, and Turkmens. The Kazakhs were on the other side. Only a small part of the "Kyrgyz" (and these were usually sedentary poor peasants who were no longer free nomads and grunts) who lived in these khanates took part in the battles against the Russian army.


          Half of the Kanagata-parvanachi army in the Uzyn-Agach battle consisted of Kazakhs and Kyrgyz. The defense of Tashkent after the death of Alimkul was commanded by Sadyk Kenesarin.
          The garrison of Turkestan was half composed of Kazakhs, as was the garrison of Akmechet.

          Quote: Marek Rozny
          So, in the conquest of the Central Asian states, the Kazakhs were almost completely and completely on the side of the Russians. But this did not mean that these same Kazakhs did not oppose the Russians when the tsarist government infringed on Kazakh rights.


          Kazakhs were configured differently.

          Anichkov "Kyrgyz hero Dzhankhoja Nurmukhamedov":

          "At the same time, it is involuntarily striking that almost all of these last heroes of the Central Asian wars and indignations or Kyrgyz (Kazakhs)like Kenesary, Dzhankhoja, Iset or Sadyk, or Kipchaks, like Mulla Alimkul ... or Abdurahman Avtobachi ... and not Sarts or Tajiks, which seems to be explained by the greater development of a sense of nationality among the Kyrgyz than among other peoples of Central Asia. "
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 21 November 2013 20: 50
            +1
            Quote: Zymran
            Half of the Kanagata-parvanachi army in the Uzyn-Agach battle consisted of Kazakhs and Kyrgyz. The defense of Tashkent after the death of Alimkul was commanded by Sadyk Kenesarin.

            data on the number of Kokand troops vary greatly in different sources, and apparently "slightly" exaggerated, which was typical of the reports of the Russian troops, which did not have reliable intelligence. Which, however, slightly diminishes the military leadership talent of the Russian generals, who really crushed the Central Asians not by number, but by skill.
            The number of attacking Kokandans is indicated in both 40 thousand and 20 thousand. The spread is large. How many exactly Kazakhs were not known for certain. It is only known that these were representatives of the Dulat clan. One source (written 60 years after the battle) indicates that it was 6000 Kazakhs, and in another source it is mentioned that 5000 Dulat families supported the Kokand people by one thousand riders. What figures are accurate - no one knows. But it is known for sure that the Kazakhs nevertheless mainly supported the tsarist administration and participated in all campaigns of the Russian troops. Do not forget that when the Russians invaded Central Asia, the Kazakhs had long been Russian subjects (with the exception of a small number of settled Kazakhs living in Sartian territory).

            Jankoja - as I already mentioned, I always fought on the side of the Russians against the Khiva. And only when the Caspian Kazakhs began to oppress - then he turned against the Russians.
            Yeset Batyr also fought against the Khivans. And also only when the Kazakhs began to oppress the Young Shezhuzovs - did he make a storm against the imperial authority. At the same time, the case eventually ended in a truce, when the uprising was crushed, but the Russian administration made concessions to the rebels. Moreover, Eset even then went to St. Petersburg and served further in the Russian administrative system as a local judge.
            Concerning Sadyka (Syzdyka) - then consider that he is the son of Kenesara. And he was fanatically ready to fight against the Russians for the fact that they liquidated the khan’s power. He did not care about the interests of the Kazakhs, but a thirst for personal revenge. At the same time, the other two sons of Kenesary - Taishyk and Akhmet served in the Russian army - for the merits of taking Yani-Kurgan they were awarded the rank of ordinary coronets, and since 1867, Akhmet worked for almost twenty years as a junior assistant to the chief of Chimkent district.
            In addition, Sadyk did not really participate in the defense of Tashkent - he was just taking the place of Sart Alimkul, when he was forced to leave Tashkent because of Sart intrigues. The capture of this city took place without his participation. And Tashkent is a Sart city, not a Kazakh one. Although I myself sometimes call it "Kazakh", since it was often conquered by the Kazakhs and, as a result, the main population of the region consisted of nomad Kazakhs. But the citizens of Tashkent are the Sarts. Kazakhs did not participate in his defense.
            Sadyk is a desperate head that did not climb out of the fighting, as a result, he fought in Afghanistan and in Kashgar against the Chinese. In the end, he was simply tired of the war and wrote to Kaufman that he wanted to return to his homeland. And as usual, the Russian governor-generals willingly reconciled, Sadyk was forgiven, he was honored according to his status, and even received a pension from the Russian government. Kaufman also personally strove for the Emir of Bukhara to send his family back to Shymkent to Sadyka, who at that time lived within Bukhara.
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 21 November 2013 20: 51
              +2
              The colonial policy of Russia was cruel with the commoners (however, they did not spare their Russians either), but with respect to influential and respected persons (even if they were of the "black bone") tsarism pursued a rather wise policy, persuading to its side not only by force, but how much conviction and peacefulness. Otherwise, the Russian Empire would have remained within Moscow.

              Alimkul and Abdurahman Motor Vehicles - Kyrgyz Kipshaks, not Kazakhs.

              If we recall the names of the Kazakhs who fought against the Sarts, then there is a much more significant list of names than the number of Kazakhs who raised an uprising against the tsarist administration. And to ascribe the Kazakhs to the defenders of Kokand, Khiva and Bukhara is generally wrong. On the contrary, the Kazakhs beat these khanates all the time. These are only the Chingizids-Kazakhs, who were left without a throne and subjects, and went to the Central Asian states in order to at least steer or recruit an army there. But even there, no one wanted to share power with them, and to recruit an army from the Sarts was a stupid idea (for obvious military reasons). And ordinary Kazakhs and Kyrgyz did not want to fight for the ambitions of the Chingizids. That's when the "black bone" thought that they had infringed on their rights specifically - then they arranged large-scale storms, and the offenses of Kenesary and his descendants to the nomads were deep on the drum. Khan Kene did nothing to get the people to follow him. The German Kaufman and the Russian Kolpakovsky even aroused more sympathy among the Kazakhs.
      2. Kunar
        Kunar 18 July 2017 09: 54
        0
        And about the battle of Kara Kastek)))) Under the leadership of General Kolpakovsky))))
  28. The comment was deleted.
  29. FormerMariman
    FormerMariman 21 November 2013 15: 49
    12
    I am Kazakh from Kazakhstan and I want to hear Russian speech in public places, I want to live with Russians, I want to work with Russians, train, etc. This people is close to me and spiritually understood! I will shut my mouth to any Natsik in Kazakh, Russian, Uzbek who opens his mouth in Russian in Kazakhstan!
    1. Bekzat
      Bekzat 21 November 2013 17: 21
      +5
      + Dear you
  30. Bekzat
    Bekzat 21 November 2013 16: 53
    +7
    Greetings to all, I don’t know how the rest of the forum users, but my childhood passed on Pushkin's fairy tales, my first love was a Russian girl, Katya, I literally drowned in her blue eyes (I even wrote poetry to her smile ), and I always thought that my wife would be a Russian girl and a teacher of the Russian language (although she married a Kazakh woman, she is the same as me), I drink vodka, sometimes on Saturdays, with my friend Seryozha — he is Russian and his wife is Russian Yuna, and I think that there is no closer people to the Kazakhs, except for the Russian people.
    1. Focker
      Focker 21 November 2013 18: 19
      +6
      Quote: Bekzat
      my first love was a Russian girl - Katya, I literally drowned in her blue eyes (even wrote her poetry smile), and always thought that a Russian girl would become my wife

      Well, I'm in love with the Kazakh woman. More precisely in a metisko. But this is not ice, everything is bad. I was in St. Petersburg and my eyes were scattered in different directions from the number of beautiful girls per square kilometer. Slavs mainly. But to myself, I thought that I would trade any of them for that one. Such pies ((

      PS in the box spin Antonio Banderas advertising Caspi Bank and where he speaks Kazakh.
      1. Zymran
        Zymran 21 November 2013 18: 22
        +4
        Quote: Focker
        PS in the box spin Antonio Banderas advertising Caspi Bank and where he speaks Kazakh.


        Off. Our macho got old. smile
    2. Asan Ata
      Asan Ata 22 November 2013 02: 11
      +1
      Well, with you, Bekzat, everything is clear: this is how you treat your inferiority complex. bully
      1. Bekzat
        Bekzat 22 November 2013 11: 18
        +1
        Greetings to Asan Ata, I wonder what my inferiority complex is.
  31. Kasym
    Kasym 21 November 2013 18: 23
    +8
    Wow !!! Such a crowd of fellow countrymen - salaam, guys! When I read the title of the article, to be honest I didn't even want to look. I opened it, didn't even bother to read the article, and immediately opened the comments. I thought the cut was coming. I remember the times when only a few Kazakhstanis were on this site. I remember the aksakal, in my opinion he does not come to such articles - he "ate" the earthenware, it was really difficult to conduct discussions with those who left long ago. Times and the situation in Kazakhstan have changed, and they all remember the nationalists. So pull yourself together, it's easier to "keep the answer" together.
    A sensible article - I liked it. Thanks to the author. hi
    1. Weyland
      Weyland 21 June 2017 01: 51
      0
      Quote: Kasym
      Times and the situation in Kazakhstan have changed, but they all remember the nationalists

      Have changed - for the worse. stop Russian language is pressed not childishly. In state institutions all signs - only in Kazakh. Will you deny the obvious?
  32. alone
    alone 21 November 2013 19: 41
    +8
    despite the fact that I live in Azerbaijan, but I would also like to express my opinion. because we also have Russian citizens in our country, whose number is from 120 to 140 thousand people.
    if a person is not prevented from living, working and speaking his native language, he has no need to go somewhere. and even if he wants to leave, he will leave. and no one has the right to disturb him. this is his life and only he decides where he will OK. hi

    but it is advisable that these people do not leave. because they are Our Russians.
  33. wanderer
    wanderer 21 November 2013 19: 41
    +3
    It seems that this applies not only to Kazakhstan.
    Why are Russian-speakers in no hurry to leave that Baltic, Moldova, etc.?
    As it is, there is no great interest on the part of Russia in the return of the Russians to the homeland of their ancestors. This is not Israel for you. It seems that we are needed there as the same pliers from Vysotsky.
    1. Zymran
      Zymran 21 November 2013 19: 51
      +3
      Quote: wanderer
      Why are Russian-speakers in no hurry to leave that Baltic?


      I will cause a storm of indignation, but in my opinion it is a matter of culture. And specifically in European culture in the Baltic countries. http://postomania.ru/post288659445/
      And the fact is that it is easier to leave the Baltic countries for European countries.
      1. Weyland
        Weyland 21 June 2017 01: 53
        0
        Quote: Zymran
        And specifically in European culture in the Baltic countries

        Culture - for those who were only centuries serfs from European owners, and for trying to enter Tallinn received 50 pyrruthenes? Do not tell my slippers! The reason is the second one you named:
        Quote: Zymran
        from the Baltic states it is easier to leave for European countries.
    2. Allegedly
      Allegedly 22 November 2013 03: 36
      0
      Quote: wanderer
      Why are the Russian-speaking in no hurry to leave that Baltic


      You have no idea how many have left. In some cities, up to 80% of the working population, and these are 18-50 year olds. To all who have where or to whom they have left or are leaving.
  34. Beck
    Beck 21 November 2013 20: 05
    11
    And now, in the end, I’ll say for youth - All fellow countrymen respect and respect. Not a single comment, not even a sentence in it with a nationalist coloring. Unlike the Urashniks, Kazakh and Russian, the complete concept is that all PEOPLE are HUMAN. And the main thing everyone knows - the main thing is that the person is good, the rest will follow any nationality.

    In history, we are neighbors with Russians for 2000 years, and nowhere in the future can we get away from each other. Only good neighborhood living.
  35. Nomad
    Nomad 22 November 2013 06: 01
    +4
    Quote: Kasym
    Wow !!! Such a horde of fellow countrymen - salaam, guys!

    Who knows where Marek Rozny went? All his comments are deleted.
    1. Semurg
      Semurg 22 November 2013 09: 23
      +6
      Quote: Nomad
      Quote: Kasym
      Wow !!! Such a horde of fellow countrymen - salaam, guys!

      Who knows where Marek Rozny went? All his comments are deleted.

      Alibek kind of wrote above that Marek was sent to the bathhouse for disagreeing with the general line that only gingerbreads fell to the Kazakhs and other people, and he often wrote and lashes. The article is surprisingly weighted without tantrums about the persecuted and the persecutors, and what is even more surprising komenty the same without hysteria.
      1. Andrey KZ
        Andrey KZ 22 November 2013 12: 10
        +4
        Maybe the administration will come down to explain the reasons for Marek’s ban. Yesterday I read his comments, I didn’t see crime. Maybe I missed something?
  36. Nomad
    Nomad 22 November 2013 11: 05
    +4
    Quote: Alibekulu
    And at the end I would like to ask the question: "Has Hyle Marek been banned ?!

    The most annoying thing is that all comments deleted it. There is a whole popular science encyclopedia of history! You can only read them. I even made a separate bookmark on them and read, like news, over coffee with buters, as I updated. Apparently, the admins were jealous. wassat
    1. FRIGATE2
      FRIGATE2 1 December 2013 05: 03
      +2
      Quote: Nomad
      The most annoying thing is that all comments deleted it. There is a whole popular science encyclopedia of history! You can only read them. I even made a separate bookmark on them and read, like news, over coffee with buters, as I updated. Apparently, the admins were jealous.


      I also have bookmarks on the comments of Beck, Marek, Alibek and Normal on a separate browser.

      By the way, I was also removed from the site about 6 or 7 times without explanation, I don’t remember it myself for a long time, but I’m glad that I came across the ideas of the above people.
      Since then, I have not visited the site very much, and the articles from the genre "humiliate us, we are threatened, we are kicked out" were pretty bad. In a word, most Russians live here as in a parallel world, fed by propaganda and Putin's plan
    2. Aldar kose
      Aldar kose 8 May 2014 11: 11
      0
      Quote: Nomad
      Quote: Alibekulu
      And at the end I would like to ask the question: "Has Hyle Marek been banned ?!

      The most annoying thing is that all comments deleted it. There is a whole popular science encyclopedia of history! You can only read them. I even made a separate bookmark on them and read, like news, over coffee with buters, as I updated. Apparently, the admins were jealous. wassat


      Yes, it was interesting to read! Argued, systemically! Apparently, they feel a strong opponent, and that's banned!
  37. The comment was deleted.
  38. The comment was deleted.
  39. romb
    romb 22 November 2013 11: 20
    10
    Admins! And the point was to ban a completely adequate person? You would be better off putting a bunch of your acquaintances wizards, including individual virtual marshals with clearly fascist inclinations.
    1. Aldar kose
      Aldar kose 8 May 2014 11: 10
      0
      Quote: romb
      Admins! And the point was to ban a completely adequate person? You would be better off putting a bunch of your acquaintances wizards, including individual virtual marshals with clearly fascist inclinations.


      Unfortunately, this will not happen.
  40. babayang
    babayang 22 November 2013 19: 45
    +3
    An interesting, good and balanced article, thanks to the author.
  41. Aldar kose
    Aldar kose 8 May 2014 11: 08
    0
    Quote: Beck
    but it characterizes some particulars in the pursuit of greatness, selectivity, exclusivity, neglecting historical development. Such a worldview, if it covers all layers of Russian society, and not just Urashniks, will only lead to the isolation of Russia from the world community by a new iron curtain.

    As a visual komenty urashnikov on this site. About whatever country, in the district, there would be an article, the workers will always find negative words about it. And not just negative, but with a nationalistic color. This is at least Poland, even the Baltic states, even Ukraine, even Central Asia, even the Caucasus, even Finland, at least Someone to bark at. And admins are kindly silent not that they do not ban the authors of explicit nationalist and racial statements, but do not even make comments to them.


    And what, before this was not visible and not clear?
  42. janna84
    janna84 28 May 2014 23: 47
    0
    Greetings to all, I don’t know how the rest of the forum users, but my childhood passed on Pushkin's fairy tales, my first love was a Russian girl, Katya, I literally drowned in her blue eyes (even wrote poetry to her), and I always thought that a Russian girl would become my wife and necessarily a teacher of the Russian language (although she married a Kazakh woman, she is the same as I was Russified), I drink vodka, sometimes on Saturdays, with my friend Seryozha — he is Russian and his wife is Russian Yuna, and I think that there are no people closer to Kazakhs, except Russian people.


    I completely agree with you. I am one of those oralmans who "do not know Russian at all." The author is right, the majority of oralmans do not know Russian. And I was more lucky.) I speak Russian well, although I studied in a Kazakh class, in Uzbekistan. I also grew up on Pushkin's fairy tales and Gaidar's stories. I love Russian literature, favorite writers Turgenev and Dostoevsky, favorite poet Pushkin.
    For the last two years I have been working abroad on a cruise ship. There were not so many Russian speakers there, but these Russian guys: from Moscow and St. Petersburg, and the rest of the Russian speakers from Odessa, Minsk, Chisinau, became the most dear people for me. We were generalized by one thing, native: Russian. We were born in the same country, we have a common childhood, everyone watched "Well, wait a minute" and were october. Therefore, young people from the former Soviet Union quickly found a common language, compared to the Americans or the British. We were even called "russian mafia".
  43. kolossOV
    kolossOV 13 June 2017 10: 37
    0
    “The identification of Russians” in modern Kazakhstan as a “separate sub-ethnic group,” or rather, diasporas, minorities, the Kazakh ethno-regime wants. But this is a manipulation - not a fact. The opinion of the author of the article fits into his status as a “Fulbright graduate”.
    In everyday conversations, Russian Semirechye associate themselves with Russia; events of Russian reality are taken to heart, and the sympathy for Russian brothers in Russia is quite strong, also due to the preservation of kinship in the historic homeland. The similarity of lifestyles manifests itself in the fact that the Russian Semirechye entered in Soviet times and are now arriving, without “special equipment”, in Russian universities.
    In Soviet times, there was no contradiction in such an orientation toward Russia. It was created by mono-ethnic regimes.
    In general, the Russian factor in the current zones of “ethnic idiotization” is strong precisely because of the sense of cultural roots in Russia (some Kazakhs and Kyrgyz people feel similar roots, despite the apparent contradiction), and multi-generational family ties, which are of primary importance to Russians , in spite of the cheers-patriotic and other manipulations of ethno-stubborn power.
    Kazakhization is perceived as a simplification, primitivization of the social life of Russians. Only the most “muzzled” Russians by Kazakhization can consider themselves Kazakhs; Both in the cultural tradition and in the language they are Russians. In blended areas, bilingualism is not uncommon; but this is a two-way process with centuries of history, and it does not imply substitution, but supplements native speech and cultural tradition.
    Ethnic idiotization expresses itself in this way: in socio-economic development, ethnicity has a regressive vector moment, and all the signs of socio-economic growth contradict the ethnic “background” to which they are trying to “fix” them.
  44. Leonid Dymov
    Leonid Dymov 19 June 2017 00: 07
    0
    I think that while President Nazarbayev is in Kazakhstan, the Russians of Kazakhstan will live more or less normally. But when Nazarbayev leaves, most likely there will be an escalation of nationalism, which will be steeper than Ukrainian. Kazakh Maidan is quite real in the future. It may well be supported by China.
    1. Kunar
      Kunar 18 July 2017 10: 03
      0
      There are no prerequisites)))
  45. Weyland
    Weyland 21 June 2017 00: 39
    0
    Kazakhs and Russians in Kazakhstan for almost a hundred and a half years have been living without serious conflict situations

    Yeah ... especially in 1916 ... They didn’t write to the scoop that these "rebels" am got up, we remember something! Then they poured a little!
  46. Spnsr
    Spnsr 27 June 2017 23: 55
    0
    The official history of Russian-Kazakh relations begins on 10 on October 1731, when in the tract Manityube (near Aktyubinsk) Khan Abdulkhair and a group of Kazakh foremen signed an act with Empress Anna Ioannovna on the entry of Younger Zhuz into citizenship of the Russian Empire.
    I just didn’t understand one thing! the Kirghiz were, though quite tough guys ... - this is according to the stories of my ancestors, and certainly not in 1731 but in the 19th century, but they didn’t say anything about the Kazakhs, though the Kyrgyz were often called kaisaks, less often the Kyrgyz!
    and the territory, now Kazakhstan, its western part, right up to the Caspian is the home of the native Cossacks. another question, who are the Cossacks! but it’s just clearly not those who call themselves Kazakhs. this is not a claim! you just have to stop turning the story around a bit!
    the Bolsheviks made from Turkistan those republics that are now available in Central Asia, having slightly diluted herders (the definition only emphasizes life activity), people who were also engaged in farming and fishing, while in the case of Ukraine, together with the territories, to raise the level the life of the former, both the uplift and the dissolution of such a people as the Cossacks, some of which after the revolution went to Iran, some dissolved in Turkestan! and here about zhuzes at once!
    my ancestors told me a different story, kaisaks lived, sometimes they were called Kyrgyz, they were quite belligerent people. they could attack livestock, girls, for which, from those who led a more settled way of life and were called Cossacks at the end of the 18th century, they were periodically given their faces, but more often they had commercial relations, and life was built, but about Kazakhs and especially about zhuzi nini!
    1. bnm bnmbm
      bnm bnmbm 18 July 2017 20: 18
      0
      The Internet is there, but to the point. The Kazakhs were mistakenly called the Kyrgyz, and there were some, a little smarter - they called the Kyrgyz-Kaisak. This is all from the filing of one unreasonable journalist-correspondent. The magazine was waiting for the article. Like the story with the Indians. As Columbus called them, it was so customary. Or as the Germans were called Germans (they say you ask them and they are dumb) and it happened. Or the Chinese, they call themselves differently, or Chechens and many other nations. And then, as their neighbors call them, well, what to do is life. The Kyrgyz were a more studied nation than the Kazakhs. As you know, they moved from Siberia to the territory of modern Kyrgyzstan. And Siberia was already mastered by the Russians. Before you write something, learn to dig. And you need to dig a lot, to the source.
  47. captain
    captain 13 August 2017 14: 14
    0
    “The misfortune of Russia lies in the fact that its leadership is very much non-Russian” - General Skobelev, in a speech to Bulgarian students.
  48. Shaft
    Shaft 28 October 2018 19: 10
    0
    They will not leave, if only because they cannot — purely economically, and not to their homeland, since their homeland abandoned them — as they had abandoned Yugoslavia in due time. Russians in Kazakhstan no longer have confidence in their historic homeland, which sells passports. But it becomes impossible to continue to live further here !!!