Military Review

Exercises in the air: a fighter is flying to Moscow, bombers are flying to Rostov

184
Exercises in the air: a fighter is flying to Moscow, bombers are flying to Rostov

In the suburban Zhukovsky should land a multi-purpose fighter of the fifth generation T-50. He flew in the morning of November 20 from Komsomolsk-on-Amur. There at the aircraft factory named after Gagarin produce these newest aircraft. The current instance is already the fifth in a row, according to the Russia 24 TV channel. In the coming months, it will undergo ground and flight tests.


T-50 is developing a Sukhoi design bureau. The fighter is equipped with fundamentally new equipment, it is almost invisible to radar. His first flight took place at the beginning of 2010. A year later, the T-50 was first shown at the international aerospace show in Zhukovsky.

And on the airbase in the Rostov region received three new front-line bomber Su-34. They differ in modernized navigation equipment and weapon control system. Aircraft can conduct air combat at any time of the day. In total, by the end of this year, another 30 combat aircraft will be sent to the Southern Military District, including Su-30 and Su-27. In the near future, the pilots will have to master the new technique.

Pilots of the North fleet in the coming days they will practice landing on the aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov. The cruiser left on the eve of the Barents Sea for large-scale training. In addition to interacting with combat aviation Sailors will have to conduct training firing from anti-aircraft systems and repel air attacks of the conditional enemy. Maneuvers are expected to last about a week.
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  1. voldmis
    voldmis 20 November 2013 11: 19
    26
    The bigger, the better!
    1. ShturmKGB
      ShturmKGB 20 November 2013 11: 26
      10
      It would be nice if, in geometric order, the admission went to technology ...
      1. strannik595
        strannik595 20 November 2013 12: 07
        39
        for this it is necessary that the tax with geometrical acceleration takes offshore investors in the garages of the Tararam Islands, Cyprus and other .... and the Accounts Chamber, coupled with the RF IC, more closely watched and prevented those wishing to live luxuriously at the expense of taxpayers, officers, pensioners, large families, etc. .d ....... then America will startle from the rumble of Russian armada in the sky laughing
        1. Excalibur
          Excalibur 20 November 2013 20: 00
          -3
          Opinion of the teacher of the Department of Aviation Radioelectronic Facilities of the Chelyabinsk VVAUSH: the T-50 has turbine blades and in the front hemisphere the RCS will be incomparably LARGER than that of the F-22. That is, the Raptor will "see" it first.

          He also claims that radar blockers lead to a decrease in aircraft speed.
          proof1: http://forum.militaryparitet.com/viewtopic.php?id=1570
          proof2: http://forum.militaryparitet.com/viewtopic.php?id=1248
          1. Good Ukraine
            Good Ukraine 20 November 2013 21: 00
            +6
            hi
            Quote: Excalibur
            the T-50 has turbine blades and in the front hemisphere the RCS will be incomparably LARGER than that of the F-22. That is, the Raptor will "see" it first.

            I remember that the United States had one more F-117, the most invisible in the world, until one Serbian missile, of the old Soviet assembly, sent this “invisible” together with all its brothers to a landfill.
            And the whole world saw it very well. good
            1. Excalibur
              Excalibur 20 November 2013 21: 18
              -5
              Quote: Dobryak Ukraine
              I remember that the United States had one more F-117, the most invisible in the world, until one Serbian missile, of the old Soviet assembly, sent this “invisible” together with all its brothers to a landfill.
              And it is very well seen the whole world.

              About the F-117 and its downing in Yugoslavia in 1999.
              For detecting and tracking aerial targets, as well as for transmitting control commands to missiles, a missile guidance station SNR-125 is used, which operates in the I-wave band (8,9-9,46 GHz). It has antennas of a special configuration located in such a way as to reduce the influence of reflections from the earth. The maximum target detection range is 110 km. The width of the antenna pattern is 12 ° x 1,5 °. Antennas have a mechanical beam scanning device, which allows you to simultaneously view a specific area of ​​space. CHP allows you to simultaneously direct one or two missiles at a target. To ensure the ability to work in interference conditions, the station is equipped with a television optical camera, which allows to detect targets at ranges up to 25 km, as well as to control the results of firing.
              The average target detection range (EPR 1 m2) with a probability of 0,5, with a probability of false alarm of 10-6 in the autonomous search sector of maximum sizes, km - 56.
              Now in relation to our case: F-117 was detected and steadily captured by CHP-125 at D = 13 kmtherefore its EPR goes out 0.0029 m2. Which just fits perfectly into the EPR range for the F-117 that I brought in: from 0.001 m2 (front), to 0.01 m2 - at the back.

              http://forum.militaryparitet.com/viewtopic.php?id=1248
              1. Revolver
                Revolver 20 November 2013 22: 06
                +3
                Quote: Excalibur
                About the F-117 and its downing in Yugoslavia in 1999.


                quote: http://a1100.chat.ru/songs/sam.htm
                ZRK (music from the movie "Mimino", lyrics by E. Isakevich)

                You sit behind a strong, thick shell
                The plane sings with motors.
                Only the oscilloscope marked with a dot
                Your location.
                The anode bulbs shine appetizingly,
                The goal is already close enough:
                You know what flying weather is fraught with
                In the affected area of ​​the air defense system?

                For those who do not know: when the anodes are energized, it means that the missiles are in full readiness for launch, it remains only to press "start 1", well, or "start 2" to be sure. At least on the C-125 this is so, maybe on the newer complexes they refused the lamps, I do not know.
                And even if there is no radar capture, you can aim at the TVK, and detonate the warhead at the K-3 (this is in case the radio fuse does not work on "invisibility"). By the way, somewhere it flashed that the Serbs were on TCEs and spotted this "invisibility".
                And even if the launch has passed, the pilot of the F-117 does not shine except a catapult. He has neither speed nor maneuverability. Largely because they were written off. Such nice stupid Arabs to bomb quietly (and even the load is small), and a little smarter than the enemy, the same Serbs, they become expensive targets, and then taking out a pilot (if it survives and does not come across) is even more expensive. In general, they considered, wept, and put them all on a dead joke somewhere in the deserts of AZ or NM, I don’t know for sure, and it doesn’t matter.
                1. Excalibur
                  Excalibur 20 November 2013 22: 50
                  -5
                  Quote: Nagan
                  For those who do not know:

                  Are you a former teacher of the Department of Aviation Radioelectronic Tools of the Chelyabinsk VVAUSH?
                  Quote: Nagan
                  and then take out the pilot (if it survives and doesn’t fall) even more expensive

                  That is why they are developing the X-47 B.
                  Quote: Nagan
                  Such good stupid Arabs to bomb quietly (and even then the load is small)

                  Quote: Nagan
                  In general, they considered, wept, and put them all on a dead joke somewhere in the deserts of AZ or NM, I do not know for sure, and it doesn’t matter.

                  I can imagine how hard it is for you to live in the hated United States.
                  Can you return to your homeland?
                  1. Revolver
                    Revolver 20 November 2013 23: 44
                    +4
                    Quote: Excalibur
                    Are you a former teacher of the Department of Aviation Radioelectronic Tools of the Chelyabinsk VVAUSH?

                    No
                    Quote: Excalibur
                    Imagine how hard it is for you to live in hated The United States.
                    Not at all. How do you like in Britain?
                    And further. Hatred is a very harmful feeling, and most harmful for those who hate themselves. So try to stop hating, calm down, and relax. Better yet, love. At least someone or something. Both King Solomon and Jesus, all of them preached love, and they were by no means dyraki.
                    1. Excalibur
                      Excalibur 20 November 2013 23: 49
                      -1
                      Quote: Nagan
                      By no means.

                      What then are you all American hay?
                      Quote: Nagan
                      Hatred is a very harmful feeling, and most harmful for those who hate themselves. So try to stop hating, calm down, and relax. Better yet, love. At least someone or something. Both King Solomon and Jesus, all of them preached love, and they were by no means dyraki.

                      good
                      1. Revolver
                        Revolver 21 November 2013 00: 05
                        +3
                        Quote: Excalibur
                        What then are you all American hay?

                        Not all, but just what deserves it. Well, maybe it can be unpleasant for me when taxpayers' money, including mine, is spent by all sorts of Obama on every Mr.?
                        Yes, by the way, it wasn’t me who minus you. Although I disagree with you on some points, in my personal opinion, your comments do not reach the level of minus.
                    2. Sirs
                      Sirs 21 November 2013 06: 47
                      +1
                      We love everyone, but for some reason nobody loves us or love us in a perverted form such as pedophilia, pedaratism, etc. enlightened in Russia.
              2. Good Ukraine
                Good Ukraine 20 November 2013 22: 14
                +5
                good
                Quote: Excalibur
                just fits perfectly into that range

                Well, first of all - this is a theory.
                Although you are right, the C-125, with a target hitting range of 3-6 to 12-32 km, fits perfectly into the F-117, and thus all the remaining 63 aircraft (although I can hardly turn my tongue to call this iron an airplane) more and do not rise into the sky. And MIGs -21 in various countries of the world are still successfully guarding the skies of these countries, and are waiting for the next "invisible". good
                1. Excalibur
                  Excalibur 20 November 2013 22: 55
                  -5
                  Quote: Dobryak Ukraine
                  Well, first of all - this is a theory.

                  Only in your "brain".
                  1. Good Ukraine
                    Good Ukraine 21 November 2013 00: 15
                    +2
                    hi
                    Quote: Excalibur
                    Quote: Good Ukraine Ukraine First of all - this is a theory.
                    Only in your "brain".

                    Again, you are talking idle talk with no real arguments.
                    I explain the third time. F-117 - a vivid example of the unity of theory and practice. And this example is on earth in Serbia. And all theoretical calculations and advertising star-striped articles along with other planes went into oblivion.
                    And you can even beat your head against the wall, but do not change anything. lol
                    1. Excalibur
                      Excalibur 21 November 2013 11: 58
                      0
                      Quote: Dobryak Ukraine
                      Again, you are talking idle talk with no real arguments.

                      I cited the arguments above.
                      Quote: Dobryak Ukraine
                      I explain the third time. F-117 - a vivid example of the unity of theory and practice.

                      F-117 was shot down at a distance of 13 km. from air defense systems. At a greater distance they would not have been found. The range of modern guided bombs is about 100 km.
                      http://rnd.cnews.ru/army/news/line/index_science.shtml?2010/08/26/406504
                      GBU-53 / B

              3. Moskva-7
                Moskva-7 21 November 2013 08: 40
                0
                There is a version that s-125 Yugoslavs, we finalized using separate elements of the s-300 (control systems, laser / infrared tracking systems).

                It is believed that by the time the F-117 was shot down in the Russian Federation, work had already been done to upgrade the S-125 to M1 (1995-1998), in which about half of the station blocks containing 70% of its lamps and radioelements were replaced with two special computers and one functional block, which were then used for modifications of the S-300 type of air defense system. At the Yugoslav s-125, a coherent storage of radar signals and equipment for automatic capture and tracking of targets by the television optical channel of the air defense system (in exchange for Karat) were additionally introduced.


                After this successful shooting, Zolton was presented with a watch with the inscription: “To the commander of the S-300 air defense system,” and Russia in 1999. was able to get a contract for the modernization of the Egyptian S-125.

                This story has a second bottom - B-2 Spirit
                1. Excalibur
                  Excalibur 21 November 2013 12: 08
                  0
                  Quote: Moskva-7
                  There is a version that s-125 Yugoslavs

                  Where does infa come from? OBS?
          2. Good Ukraine
            Good Ukraine 20 November 2013 21: 09
            +6
            Quote: Excalibur
            That is, the Raptor will "see" it first.

            But she won’t have time to run away good
          3. VseDoFeNi
            VseDoFeNi 20 November 2013 21: 14
            +4
            Death comes to someone with a scythe, to someone with air-to-air missiles.
            1. poquello
              poquello 20 November 2013 22: 27
              +1
              Quote: VseDoFeNi
              Death comes to someone with a scythe, to someone with air-to-air missiles.

              http://rutube.ru/video/57e3ba6b992e2729f23f0d078b579bc8/
          4. Sirs
            Sirs 21 November 2013 06: 42
            0
            Well, the truth is true, but they are working on it and I think a new engine will appear in 3 stages, like a raptor with a vertical degree of freedom of nozzles, and maybe another but completely new ...
        2. shpuntik
          shpuntik 20 November 2013 20: 02
          +5
          strannik595 (1) RU Today, 12:07 PM ↑
          for this it is necessary that the tax one with geometrical acceleration takes offshore investors in the gills of the Tararam Islands, Cyprus and other ...

          It could be simpler: three words "REVISION OF THE RESULTS OF PRIVATIZATION". With amnesty for acquired capital. And that's all. This will add to the country 90 billion green rubles exported, enough for both an aircraft carrier and the purchase of a Boeing.
      2. Army1
        Army1 20 November 2013 15: 55
        11
        Eh We need more airplanes. Why are these Olympics, and the World Cup. We will never be good for the world, because of our territories, resources, and people who do not bend.
        1. GSH-18
          GSH-18 20 November 2013 21: 34
          +3
          Quote: Army1
          Eh We need more airplanes. Why are these Olympics, and the World Cup. We will never be good for the world, because of our territories, resources, and people who do not bend.

          I am joining. Only here in our country there is enough money for everything. Just a lot of sawing lately. Here it is necessary to take sawflies seriously. Then there will be money for planes and aircraft carriers and new ships! yes
      3. GSH-18
        GSH-18 20 November 2013 20: 40
        0
        Great news!
        But.
        Quote from the article: "Pilots of the Northern Fleet in the coming days will practice landing on the aircraft carrier" Admiral Kuznetsov ""
        "Admiral Kuznetsov" is a TAKR and not an aircraft carrier, this is a big difference!
        1. There is a springboard on it.
        This serious negative take-off is possible only in this direction, and will become impossible if the springboard is damaged.
        2. TAKR is smaller than a standard aircraft carrier, therefore it can carry up to 40 units of aircraft, against an aircraft carrier, up to 100 units of various aircraft.
        3. TAKR has a gas turbine engine (Admiral Kuznetsov) autonomous 45 days. A standard aircraft carrier has a nuclear power plant.
        Aircraft for the aircraft carrier are ready, it remains to build the aircraft carrier itself! yes
    2. klimpopov
      klimpopov 20 November 2013 13: 38
      18
      More pictures gentlemen! In white!



      The aircraft overcame 6414 km from Komsomolsk-on-Amur to Zhukovsky in the following stages:

      1. Komsomolsk-on-Amur - Kansk 2778 km
      2. Kansk - Novosibirsk - Shagol 2176 km
      3. Shagol - Zhukovsky 1460 km

      1. evil hamster
        evil hamster 20 November 2013 15: 06
        +6
        Wah WHITE, current tint and underestimate, dummy slush.
        1. klimpopov
          klimpopov 20 November 2013 15: 18
          +3
          Yes Yes! Nafig springs, and the next year in gold))))
        2. TSOOBER
          TSOOBER 20 November 2013 20: 32
          +6
          And so generally fire good
          1. Imigrantt
            Imigrantt 21 November 2013 00: 03
            +1
            When it’s good, it’s good! That's just not one at a time, but at least fives and more often !!!!! It would be just great! Well, of course, the bird is beautiful and formidable! A good answer to the Yankees !!!!
        3. Semen Semyonitch
          Semen Semyonitch 20 November 2013 23: 49
          +1
          Quote: evil hamster
          Wah WHITE, current tint and underestimate, dummy slush.


          Malchik Hatel is a color of Bordeaux, but Bely is also harasho ...
      2. TSOOBER
        TSOOBER 20 November 2013 16: 02
        +8
        Video to whom it is interesting!
      3. SEM
        SEM 20 November 2013 16: 46
        +4
        BEAUTY KRAASATA, LEPOTA)))))
      4. GSH-18
        GSH-18 20 November 2013 20: 58
        +3
        Quote: klimpopov
        More pictures gentlemen! In white!

        T-50 is just unrealistic cool machine!
        I wish the factory workers to run in a good quality without haste, and the Sukhoi design bureau to eliminate all the identified roughness! And into the series! And more. And cook, prepare pilots! good
    3. edge
      edge 20 November 2013 15: 03
      +3
      Quote: voldmis
      The bigger, the better!

      and prepare basing airfields, infrastructure, tech personnel ......
    4. starshina78
      starshina78 20 November 2013 19: 01
      +1
      The case is moving! This makes me happy !
  2. Stiletto
    Stiletto 20 November 2013 11: 20
    16
    Great news! Great mover in the sky!
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Corsair
      Corsair 20 November 2013 16: 11
      +6
      Quote: Stiletto
      Great news! Great mover in the sky!

      And what about those fish, who muttered: "The aviation industry has bent down, having drunk all the polymers ..."?

      Why are you silent Tobacco ????
      1. Manager
        Manager 20 November 2013 16: 26
        +2
        Well, yes, 2 planes a year is an industrial scale ...... But still better than nothing.
        1. Zlodeey
          Zlodeey 20 November 2013 16: 44
          -1
          Dear, is it not bold to declare two planes a year, just to fart in the air? And what it means is still better than nothing, it is written as if invented and run in some second-rate crap, but the troops are going to introduce what would be, than nothing.
          1. servant.
            servant. 20 November 2013 16: 50
            0
            Yes, even if so ..... What would it be ... Amerovsky 5th generation, although it is mass-produced, has problems with the raptor and 35 is higher than the roof ... although this is a full 5th generation, it is not so simple .. ..
            1. Zlodeey
              Zlodeey 20 November 2013 16: 57
              0
              I know that! You explain this to the manager.
          2. Russ69
            Russ69 20 November 2013 17: 32
            +3
            Quote: ZloDeey
            Dear, is it not bold to declare two planes a year,

            Actually, the aircraft are experienced and riveting 10 pieces a year does not make sense. Will be serial, then we'll see how much it will be.
            1. Zlodeey
              Zlodeey 20 November 2013 18: 29
              0
              Duck what I mean!
        2. F117
          F117 20 November 2013 18: 11
          +2
          Given the fact that PAK FA was not put on the conveyor, it is fast enough. Especially for equipment of this level
        3. True
          True 20 November 2013 19: 55
          +2
          One economist even thinks that it’s better than a plane for American satellites.
        4. Bashkaus
          Bashkaus 20 November 2013 23: 58
          +4
          Well, yes, 2 planes per year are industrial Sorkasm understood, but I hope you also understand that a completely new glider is being tested, completely new technologies. If I am not mistaken, then the first flight copy is now undergoing a major revision of "jambs and errors", which were revealed directly during the flights, and the subsequent ones were assembled taking into account the errors. But here, as they say, step by step, we worked it out, found a flaw, made improvements on the next glider, launched it, found more, on the next one and eliminated them. Agree that it would be stupid to rivet a couple of dozen aircraft, so that you would then suffer puzzling over how to eliminate them. Whether it’s the Americans with the F35 riveted a fucking cloud, and then they scratch their turnips that defects were found in the glider design))) Russia simply will not pull such a scale;)
      2. SEM
        SEM 20 November 2013 16: 47
        +2
        And as always, everything is bad with them)))
      3. niki233
        niki233 20 November 2013 17: 54
        0
        in the USSR they released up to 100 per month (of all types), and now one by one (also of all types)
        1. Zlodeey
          Zlodeey 21 November 2013 00: 29
          -1
          Who will release the pilots in such a quantity, or is it not important?
  3. yan
    yan 20 November 2013 11: 30
    +9
    in the Air Force, the news is good which day is already. More good and different teachings!
    1. major071
      major071 20 November 2013 11: 45
      14
      It is probably better to say this: there are more aircraft of the best, excellent + different and good teachings for them. good
    2. Dangerous
      Dangerous 20 November 2013 12: 33
      -1
      Indeed, that day is already good news! This news about three Su-34s has been repeated for the second day in a row. And about the temporary (consider - permanent) refusal to modernize the Tu-2 a couple of days ago - also good news "every day"?
  4. Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 20 November 2013 11: 45
    +5
    Positive changes in aviation are obvious. The main thing is to complete the organizational leapfrog faster. And ordinary pilots, well done. With a hundred flying hours, mastery will come. There is no doubt about it!
    1. Apollo
      Apollo 20 November 2013 11: 47
      12
      quote-The fifth-generation multi-role fighter T-50 is to land in Zhukovsky near Moscow. He took off on the morning of November 20 from Komsomolsk-on-Amur. There, at the Gagarin aircraft plant, these newest aircraft are produced. The current copy is already the fifth, according to the Russia 24 TV channel. In the coming months, it will undergo ground and flight tests.

      stock footage in the topic
      1. Botanologist
        Botanologist 20 November 2013 13: 27
        +2
        Quote: Apollon
        stock footage in the topic


        something on the splash screen is not "fifth", and not even "fourth".
        1. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 20 November 2013 14: 48
          +5
          Quote: Botanologist
          something on the splash screen is not "fifth", and not even "fourth".

          Video with the fifth, now on the news show. Painted in the colors of the Air Force.
      2. alexng
        alexng 20 November 2013 16: 22
        +2
        Quote: Apollon
        stock footage in the topic


        How easy and effortless he maneuvers! The beauty. good F-22 and did not stand nearby.
        Hurray, to Russian aircraft manufacturers and developers! drinks
        1. True
          True 20 November 2013 20: 04
          +1
          Quote: alexneg
          F-22 and not standing next
          Another expert? How many hours do you personally fly on f-22? How many personally shot down by you on Su? ... Wait, what is this?
          Hurray, to Russian aircraft manufacturers and developers!
          And, everything is clear, I have no more questions.
          1. alexng
            alexng 20 November 2013 23: 52
            +3
            My son is an aircraft designer and his opinion means more to me than the conclusions of various commentators on the forum.
      3. Mhpv
        Mhpv 20 November 2013 17: 05
        +8
        And here reporters cannot do without borrowing: "this is already the fifth jet"
        In Russia, jets fly, cars go, thorns at sea, etc. We have very "advanced" media.
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. The comment was deleted.
  7. танк
    танк 20 November 2013 11: 48
    +2
    And the engines on the T-50 are the previous generation, as I understand it?
    1. Warrawar
      Warrawar 20 November 2013 12: 03
      +8
      Quote: tank
      And the engines on the T-50 are the previous generation, as I understand it?

      There are 4 ++ engines of deep modernization (product 117). But these engines are temporary, a little later there will be special engines of the 5th generation, "the second stage"
      http://telegrafist.org/2013/08/14/78721/
      http://vpk.name/news/94764_finalnyii_dvigatel_dlya_t50_budet_razrabotan_v_2015_g

      .html
      1. Lissyara
        Lissyara 20 November 2013 12: 53
        17
        People get used to it. In the military get-together, Su-35 has long been called not 4 ++, but 5-
        1. Excalibur
          Excalibur 20 November 2013 13: 00
          -9
          Quote: LiSSyara
          People get used to it. In the military get-together, Su-35 has long been called not 4 ++, but 5-

          Yes, at least 10, the reality of this will not change.
          1. silver_roman
            silver_roman 20 November 2013 13: 42
            +3
            and what is the reality? tell me ...
        2. Botanologist
          Botanologist 20 November 2013 16: 21
          +3
          Quote: LiSSyara
          In a military get-together


          Dear, answer (you are in fact scouts, it seems bully ), what's up with A-50 and 100? Are looking forward to.
      2. silver_roman
        silver_roman 20 November 2013 13: 37
        0
        I'm wondering: according to official sources, our AL-41F1 has a thrust of about 8800 kgf.
        What is the thrust of the fu-22? meaning without afterburner.
        according to official sources, again, about 10000 kgf, but in fact, about how much? is it worth believing such performance characteristics or, as usual, everything is classified and the truth is not known ??? who knows from the "knowledgeable" ??
        1. Lissyara
          Lissyara 20 November 2013 13: 50
          +3
          Who cares about thrust-weight ratio, look here:
          http://www.vonovke.ru/s/tyagovoorujennost_-_tyagovoorujennost_nekotoryih_samolet
          ov
          1. silver_roman
            silver_roman 20 November 2013 14: 39
            +3
            thank you for the link
            but I have another question:
            thrust-to-weight ratio is the ratio of thrust of engines to aircraft mass. and the mass of the aircraft is taken in the table given by you as the mass of the glider or the mass of the aircraft with full fueling and armament?
            just not in the know.
            hi
            1. Lissyara
              Lissyara 20 November 2013 20: 05
              +2
              Weighted average, let’s say so. If the Su-27 carries 8 tons of suspension, then we count on the basis of 4 tons when refueling 60% tanks.
        2. Excalibur
          Excalibur 20 November 2013 13: 53
          -32 qualifying.
          Quote: silver_roman
          I'm wondering: according to official sources, our AL-41F1 has a thrust of about 8800 kgf.
          What is the thrust of the fu-22? meaning without afterburner.

          The F-22 has an advantage in stealth, it will be the first to "see" the T-50, the first to launch a missile, and the first to kill.
          1. silver_roman
            silver_roman 20 November 2013 14: 37
            12
            where did you get this info? What is the EPR of the T-50 and F-22 ??? Or do you take Old from Wikipedia and draw conclusions based on it?

            Your words:
            Quote: Excalibur
            The F-22 has an advantage in stealth, it will be the first to "see" the T-50, the first to launch a missile, and the first to kill.

            just unfounded.
            For the successful detection, guidance and subsequent destruction, there are a huge number of factors, namely illumination with the same AWACS or A-50, AFAR work, as if I’m not mistaken, then for long distances it works only in a very narrow angular range, and at the same time it cannot do this for a long time. By the way, at this time, the aircraft itself is extremely vulnerable to detection.
            T-50 today is only a promising model. To the final La he is still far away. This is not even a model for state testing, but only a model for testing technologies, assemblies and components. So you basically can’t know about who will beat whom! shorter minus !!!

            ps you probably can tell a lot more about fu-35 (considering your profile picture), about how he can shoot down su-35 packs?
            1. Excalibur
              Excalibur 20 November 2013 14: 53
              -6
              Quote: silver_roman
              where did you get this info? What is the EPR of the T-50 and F-22 ???

              What EPR in the F-22 no one knows. F-22s fly with Luneberg lenses that increase real EPR.

              I read (on military sites) that S-shaped air intakes provide less frontal EPR than radar blockers.
              1. Saburov
                Saburov 20 November 2013 19: 01
                13
                I don’t often visit the site, so sometimes, once honestly, I just stumble upon a stubborn position every time, military illiteracy, comparisons of airplanes with non-pilots and engineers, comparisons of tanks with non-tankers and mechanics, and so on, and at the same time, such convincing conclusions are drawn. that I am already scratching myself in the most modest places, there’s some kind of pimple kid who never even saw the sleeves and proves that the Raptor or some other lizard sees further, shoots better and generally he, he knows his exact characteristics, which even pilots e they don’t know that plane can do anything about information warfare and reluctance to learn from young people, you want to learn how to correctly evaluate the combat capabilities of military equipment, to begin with, go to the Army or graduate from an institute in some useful profession, for rocket science, for example, honestly let this be a lesson for misunderstanding.
                1. Excalibur
                  Excalibur 20 November 2013 19: 42
                  -8
                  Quote: Saburov
                  I don’t often visit the site, so sometimes, once honestly, I just stumble on a stubborn position every time, military illiteracy, comparisons of airplanes not by pilots and engineers

                  Quote: Saburov
                  sits some kind of pimple kid who never even saw the liner and proves that the Raptor or some other lizard sees further, shoots better and generally he, it is he who knows his exact characteristics that even the pilots of this plane do not know

                  Is cheetah really adit?

                  А opinion of the teacher of the Department of Aviation Radioelectronic Tools of the Chelyabinsk VVAUSH means anything to you? So he says that the T-50 has turbine blades and in the front hemisphere the RCS will be incomparably LARGER than that of the F-22. That is, the Raptor will "see" it first.
                  He also claims that radar blockers lead to a decrease in aircraft speed.
                  1. Alex 241
                    Alex 241 20 November 2013 20: 05
                    +3
                    Here read, I think you will find the answers to your questions. http://oko-planet.su/politik/politikarm/194973-na-pyaterochku-o-istrebitele-pyat
                    ogo-pokoleniya-t-50-1-sravnenie-s-zapadnymi-analogami.html
                    1. Excalibur
                      Excalibur 20 November 2013 20: 15
                      -9
                      Compare, some icteric site and forum Militaryparitet.
                  2. Lissyara
                    Lissyara 20 November 2013 20: 58
                    +4
                    About EPR and the visibility of machines, I left a lecture somewhere here on the site. Read.
                    For Excalibur. There is the Internet, and there is official project documentation.
                    1. Excalibur
                      Excalibur 20 November 2013 21: 03
                      -6
                      Quote: LiSSyara
                      About EPR and the visibility of machines, I left a lecture somewhere here on the site. Read.

                      Are you a pilot If so, how can you evaluate the EPR?
                      Quote: LiSSyara
                      For Excalibur. There is the Internet, and there is official project documentation.

                      Is Poghosyan admitting that the T-50 is inferior to the F-22?
                      And there are opinions of independent experts: Lecturer, Department of Aviation Radioelectronic Facilities, Chelyabinsk VVAUSH.
                      Link at the top of the branch.
                      1. Lissyara
                        Lissyara 20 November 2013 23: 25
                        +4
                        Eggs begin to learn chicken)))))
                      2. Excalibur
                        Excalibur 20 November 2013 23: 28
                        -1
                        You have not answered my question.
                2. Albert1988
                  Albert1988 20 November 2013 23: 16
                  +4
                  Quote: Excalibur
                  Does the opinion of the teacher of the Department of Aviation Radioelectronic Tools of the Chelyabinsk VVAUSh mean anything to you?

                  You see, dear, "former teachers" are such "teachers" ...
                  1. Excalibur
                    Excalibur 20 November 2013 23: 31
                    -2
                    Quote: Albert1988
                    You see, dear, "former teachers" are such "teachers" ...

                    Well, yes, they have worked for 7 years and do not know anything.
                    1. Albert1988
                      Albert1988 21 November 2013 22: 36
                      0
                      Quote: Excalibur
                      Well, yes, they have worked for 7 years and do not know anything.

                      Well, there are those who have worked for 10-20 years, but at the same time they do not know anything, especially if something is "authoritatively" not declared according to their profile)))
                3. Saburov
                  Saburov 20 November 2013 23: 29
                  +2
                  You, a young man, first find out what a MIRROR RADIO NAVIGATION PULSE is in electronic warfare, and then get into disputes about the timely detection of a target, in order to know such things, you at least need access to the OP or SS.
                  1. Excalibur
                    Excalibur 20 November 2013 23: 34
                    -1
                    Quote: Saburov
                    You, a young man, first find out what a MIRROR RADIO NAVIGATION PULSE is in electronic warfare, and then get into disputes about the timely detection of a target, in order to know such things, you at least need access to the OP or SS.

                    I do not fit anywhere. I just give a point of view Lecturer, Department of Aviation Radioelectronic Facilities, Chelyabinsk VVAUSH.
                    1. Corsair
                      Corsair 21 November 2013 02: 45
                      0
                      Quote: Excalibur
                      I do not fit anywhere. I just give the point of view of the teacher of the Department of Aviation Radioelectronic Facilities of the Chelyabinsk VVAUSH.
                      Yes, I know this "teacher", for a bottle of beer he will tell you something else ...
                      And in general, ON SECRET, only between me and you:
                      The guy UNTOT is an agent of the FSB, works for counterintelligence, listen to him less. wink
                    2. Excalibur
                      Excalibur 21 November 2013 12: 13
                      0
                      Quote: Corsair
                      Yes, I know this "teacher", for a bottle of beer he will tell you something else ...

                      How do you know? The name of? Where does he live?
                      Quote: Corsair
                      And in general, ON SECRET, only between me and you:
                      The guy UNTOT is an agent of the FSB, works for counterintelligence, listen to him less.

                      He has not lived in Russia for many years. Therefore, the FSB cannot work.
                    3. Corsair
                      Corsair 21 November 2013 13: 25
                      +1
                      Quote: Excalibur
                      He has not lived in Russia for many years. Therefore, the FSB cannot work.

                      JUST? Do not believe it! They are agents of passion as dodgy, beware of them.
                      And then relax NATO "rolls" and OP-PA ...

                      P | S:Have you already "not grown together" with humor in Britain, or have you already arrived THAT?

                      Although in both cases My deepest and most sincere condolences ...
                    4. Excalibur
                      Excalibur 21 November 2013 14: 20
                      -2
                      Quote: Corsair
                      JUST? Do not believe it! They are agents of passion as dodgy, beware of them.
                      And then relax NATO "rolls" and OP-PA ...

                      Some strange erotic fantasies you have, although I do not blame you ...
                      In Europe, this is one of the norm ...
                    5. Albert1988
                      Albert1988 21 November 2013 22: 37
                      +1
                      Quote: Excalibur
                      In Europe, this is one of the norm ...

                      This is what perfectly characterizes Europe - In Russia, whatever one may say, it is a deviation from the norm ...
            2. silver_roman
              silver_roman 21 November 2013 11: 14
              +1
              This is understandable, but it is NOT possible (!) To compare the layout and the finished product.
              When the T-50 passes state. tests, when he will be assigned his name - Su - **, when new engines will arrive (although it is possible earlier), then we’ll talk about who is better.
              This debate is similar to talking about aliens or philosophy: no one really knows the facts, but draws serious conclusions.
            3. Excalibur
              Excalibur 21 November 2013 12: 59
              0
              Quote: silver_roman
              This debate is similar to talking about aliens or philosophy: no one really knows the facts, but draws serious conclusions.

              You don’t see turbine blades or don’t you know that radar blockers reduce speed?
        3. Saburov
          Saburov 20 November 2013 23: 34
          +2
          And do not forget that on the Internet you will not find the exact (valid) data on the performance characteristics of modern military equipment, for example, the performance characteristics of the PAK FA in the Russian Federation are known only to 34 people.
          1. studentmati
            studentmati 20 November 2013 23: 39
            +1
            Quote: Saburov
            And do not forget that on the Internet you will not find the exact (valid) data on the performance characteristics of modern military equipment, for example, the performance characteristics of the PAK FA in the Russian Federation are known only to 34 people.


            Goodnight! It will be very interesting to know even the smallest details!
            For scientific purposes only.
          2. Excalibur
            Excalibur 20 November 2013 23: 45
            -1
            Quote: Saburov
            And do not forget that on the Internet you will not find the exact (valid) data on the performance characteristics of modern military equipment, for example, the performance characteristics of the PAK FA in the Russian Federation are known only to 34 people.

            Why TTX? On the F-22, the blades are hidden; on the T-50, they are visible.
            Quote: Saburov
            TTX PAK FA in the Russian Federation is known only to 34 people.

            How do you know this?
          3. Good Ukraine
            Good Ukraine 21 November 2013 02: 24
            +3
            laughing
            Quote: Excalibur
            How do you know this?

            This information is from
            Quote: Excalibur
            Lecturer, Department of Aviation Radioelectronic Tools, Chelyabinsk VVAUSH.

            lol
      3. Good Ukraine
        Good Ukraine 21 November 2013 02: 19
        +1
        hi
        Quote: Saburov
        You, a young man, first find out what a MIRROR RADIO NAVIGATION PULSE in electronic warfare is, and then get into disputes

        He learned one phrase:
        Quote: Excalibur
        I just give the point of view of the teacher of the Department of Aviation Radioelectronic Facilities of the Chelyabinsk VVAUSH.

        This is the standard of knowledge and reliability of information. And this teacher allegedly saw some shoulder blades, although this information has long been refuted.
        1. Excalibur
          Excalibur 21 November 2013 12: 19
          0
          Quote: Dobryak Ukraine
          He learned one phrase:

          Can't you answer reasonably?
          Quote: Dobryak Ukraine
          This is the standard of knowledge and reliability of information. And this teacher allegedly saw some shoulder blades, although this information has long been refuted.

          Are you visually impaired? I posted the photo in this thread, where the protruding vanes of the VNA (input guide vane) and the first stage of the engine compressor are clearly visible.
  • PLO
    PLO 20 November 2013 21: 57
    +2
    I read (on military sites) that S-shaped air intakes provide less frontal EPR than radar blockers.

    the radar blocker does not differ much from the S-shaped air intake in principle
    Thanks to the adjustable air intake, the T-50 has excellent LTX
    And to lower the EPR, something like this is planned
    1. Excalibur
      Excalibur 20 November 2013 23: 05
      -2
      Quote: olp
      And to lower the EPR, something like this is planned

      A radar blocker reduces speed.

      http://forum.militaryparitet.com/viewtopic.php?id=1248
      1. PLO
        PLO 20 November 2013 23: 15
        +3
        The S-shaped air intake reduces speed much more, which is why with a slightly more powerful engine the F-22 flies much worse than the T-50

        the radar blocker allows you to flexibly change the characteristics of the aircraft
        1. Excalibur
          Excalibur 20 November 2013 23: 42
          -1
          Quote: olp
          The S-shaped air intake reduces speed much more, which is why with a slightly more powerful engine the F-22 flies much worse than the T-50

          Americans are Dumb! Yes?
          1. PLO
            PLO 20 November 2013 23: 48
            +4
            Americans are Dumb! Yes?

            well yes)
          2. silver_roman
            silver_roman 21 November 2013 11: 19
            +1
            Dumb is not the right word !!!
            Mikhail Zadornov (s)
            lol
  • poquello
    poquello 20 November 2013 22: 40
    +3
    by the way about AWACS
    “Recall that the S-400 can use at least five types (“ indexes ”) of anti-aircraft missiles: 48N6E, 48N6E2, 48N6EZ, 9M96E2 and 40N6E.

    The latter is designed to engage the most complex and valuable targets, including enemy airborne early warning (AWACS) aircraft at ranges of up to 400 km. "
    http://vz.ru/news/2013/11/20/660528.html
    1. Lissyara
      Lissyara 21 November 2013 01: 20
      +1
      Have you read in the internet?
      1. poquello
        poquello 21 November 2013 01: 49
        +2
        Quote: LiSSyara
        Have you read in the internet?

        Yes, the link in the post, on the Internet, the Internet in the computer. It’s hard not to guess.
  • Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 20 November 2013 14: 49
    +9
    Quote: Excalibur
    The F-22 has an advantage in stealth, it will be the first to "see" the T-50, the first to launch a missile, and the first to kill.

    Did they tell you this at the Pentagon?
    1. servant.
      servant. 20 November 2013 14: 58
      +2
      F-22 has a target detection range? If I’m not mistaken, it’s about 200 km, missiles start up over 120 km, we seem to have similar stations, but missiles?
      1. poquello
        poquello 20 November 2013 23: 08
        +1
        Quote: serviceman.
        F-22 has a target detection range? If I’m not mistaken, it’s about 200 km, missiles start up over 120 km, we seem to have similar stations, but missiles?

        And what do they mean? The raptors guaranteeing the destruction of 10 km fly, and distant under harpoons with tomahawks are sharpened. Those who start up over 120 km guarantee the destruction of closets?
  • ZU-23
    ZU-23 20 November 2013 15: 32
    -3
    F-22s aren’t even released anymore, so goodbye! would you still remember the game console dandy)))
    1. servant.
      servant. 20 November 2013 15: 40
      +1
      You’re right .... Yes, only the T-50s are still not produced, and there are no engines yet, and weapons ... Amers have about 200 raptors, are they good or bad, but for them it’s already passed the stage yesterday. ..
      I am glad that something is being done with us, but it’s probably not worth it to go into the euphoria ....
      1. ZU-23
        ZU-23 20 November 2013 16: 19
        +3
        Yes, the fact is that not everyone is happy with their new F-35s, so after the Raptor they actually stand still.
        1. servant.
          servant. 20 November 2013 16: 32
          +1
          Will we be happy with the T-50m after it enters the troops? What kind of surprises will it present? For amers, the raptor began to be produced in 2001, 200 were riveted, they realized that crap is too expensive and ineffective, they spat and went on, we still have prototypes and all the joys and disappointments (pah pah) are yet to come .....
          1. 31231
            31231 20 November 2013 16: 55
            +2
            ineffective, they spat and went on,


            Are you talking about the F-35 that they went further? What next?
            1. servant.
              servant. 20 November 2013 17: 07
              0
              And what did they roll back? Their aircraft are mass-produced, correspond to 5 (without ++++) generation, have a full range of weapons ... And a bunch of flaws ...
              We have all this ahead ....
              Do not underestimate the likely enemy, we already had strong armor ...
              If the T-50 were to be made by 6th generation aircraft, there would be a breakthrough! While we are trying to catch up, but before we get in at least one row still oh how far ...
              But I want it, everyone wants to ... and including me, wait and see ...
              1. PLO
                PLO 20 November 2013 17: 36
                +2
                Are you talking about the Fu-35 which has no cruising supersonic and will not?
                But is there a fifth-generation engine?
                it's a hard case belay
              2. patsantre
                patsantre 20 November 2013 21: 10
                -1
                omg, well, there’s no cruising supersonic, and what ??? This is for the most part nothing more than a show off. And nothing is determined by one cruising supersonic.
              3. servant.
                servant. 20 November 2013 21: 24
                +2
                This is not a show-off, it is less fuel consumption in the first place, less heat trail, etc. etc....
          2. poquello
            poquello 20 November 2013 23: 50
            +1
            Quote: serviceman.
            And what did they roll back? Their aircraft are mass-produced, correspond to 5 (without ++++) generation, have a full range of weapons ... And a bunch of flaws ...
            We have all this ahead ....

            you mean that we rivet a few hundred, and then we will look at the flaws? ))))
          3. Corsair
            Corsair 21 November 2013 11: 57
            0
            Quote: serviceman.
            If the T-50 were to make 6 generations of aircraft, there would be a breakthrough!


            And if in comparison with the F-35 you get 5 +?
          4. servant.
            servant. 21 November 2013 12: 19
            0
            Quote: Corsair

            And if in comparison with the F-35 you get 5 +?


            You can answer this no earlier than at least the first simulated air battles appear.
            So far, only the f35 is known to be net inferior to the SU-35.
          5. Excalibur
            Excalibur 21 November 2013 12: 25
            +1
            Quote: serviceman.
            So far, only the f35 is known to be net inferior to the SU-35.

            What are the parameters? By maneuverability? So in close combat, the F-35 will use the DAS system, which provides multi-directional guidance of missiles. (see my video at the bottom of the thread)
          6. servant.
            servant. 21 November 2013 12: 38
            0
            Quote: Excalibur
            Quote: serviceman.
            So far, only the f35 is known to be net inferior to the SU-35.

            What are the parameters? By maneuverability? So in close combat, the F-35 will use the DAS system, which provides multi-directional guidance of missiles. (see my video at the bottom of the thread)

            So it's not mine, this is the opinion of our specialists, the amers have the opposite opinion .... and not the fact that our rights ... http: //topwar.ru/7009-protivostoyanie-su-35-protiv.html
        2. poquello
          poquello 21 November 2013 20: 00
          +1
          Quote: serviceman.
          Quote: Corsair

          And if in comparison with the F-35 you get 5 +?


          You can answer this no earlier than at least the first simulated air battles appear.
          So far, only the f35 is known to be net inferior to the SU-35.

          Sorry I read on the Internet, raptor battles with puffa have been modeled since development.
  • evil hamster
    evil hamster 20 November 2013 17: 00
    +5
    Quote: serviceman.
    and no engines yet

    And that is, he flew from Komsomolsk on horse drawn?
    Quote: serviceman.
    and weapons ...
    On the basis of what do you think so?
    1. servant.
      servant. 20 November 2013 17: 13
      -2
      What it flew by is not an engine for a 5th generation airplane because can’t provide cruising supersonic flight at afterburner mode (this is one of the conditions for a 5th generation aircraft) and is installed on this aircraft before the release of a new engine, which unfortunately is still in the process of development ...
      1. evil hamster
        evil hamster 20 November 2013 17: 18
        +1
        Quote: serviceman.
        What it flew by is not an engine for a 5th generation airplane because cannot provide cruising supersonic flight at afterburner mode (this is one of the conditions for a 5th generation aircraft)

        1. Have you read TTZ on the car?
        2. Where does the information that is not provided come from? Poghosyan says that all the requirements of TTZ are met?
        3. You can reference these very mythical requirements for the 5th generation and at the same time you can determine what it is.
        1. servant.
          servant. 20 November 2013 17: 23
          -3
          http://topwar.ru/29802-poetapno-k-pyatomu-pokoleniyu.html
          About engines, about all the characteristics of aircraft of the 5th generation Internet to help you ...
          1. PLO
            PLO 20 November 2013 17: 30
            +3
            and? I have this
            What engine is now at PAK FA?
            Alexander Davidenko, chief designer of the T-50, according to Andrei Fomin, editor-in-chief of Vzlyot magazine:

            engine of the second stage, we do not wait a year until 2020. "The engine of the first stage meets all the tactical and technical requirements, including cruising supersonic, and serial fighters will go with it in 2015-2016. Again, I was very angry with the journalist, who consider the engine of the first stage" old "(because a completely new FADEK, new turbine, thrust "+2500 kgf", less weight and consumption, etc. etc.).

            http://paralay.iboards.ru/viewtopic.php?style=12&f=5&t=2326
          2. servant.
            servant. 20 November 2013 17: 36
            -1
            God forbid! I'm all for it
        2. evil hamster
          evil hamster 20 November 2013 17: 34
          +2
          You know me deeply flat-panel opinion of Roman Kretsul on this subject. Where in the given link it is said that AL41F1 (Vol. 117) does not provide afterburning supersonic sound? Where is it said that an aircraft with a first stage engine does not meet the requirements of the TTZ of the RF Ministry of Defense?
      2. servant.
        servant. 20 November 2013 17: 26
        -2
        Yes, and if you read the article in series, the T-50 will be produced with engines for 4 +++ aircraft and only then will the second stage engine be installed ... corresponding to the 5th generation
        1. PLO
          PLO 20 November 2013 17: 33
          +3
          for airplanes 4 +++ and only

          hmm .. tell me the difference between 4 +++ engines from 4 ++ engines and 5 engines? lol
          carry less nonsense, the quality of the engine has always been determined by its characteristics, and not by the mythical attitude towards generations
        2. evil hamster
          evil hamster 20 November 2013 17: 38
          +1
          About how, maybe you can tell us how is this 4 ++ engine different from the 5th generation engine?
        3. servant.
          servant. 20 November 2013 17: 43
          0
          Well, if you position yourself as an aviation expert, then you yourself should know ...
        4. PLO
          PLO 20 November 2013 17: 51
          +1
          Well, why are you so frankly merging?
        5. evil hamster
          evil hamster 20 November 2013 18: 02
          +1
          Imagine, I don’t know, but you write so confidently about it ... I thought you were in the know, didn't it?
        6. servant.
          servant. 20 November 2013 19: 40
          -1
          Quote: evil hamster
          Imagine, I don’t know, but you write so confidently about it ... I thought you were in the know, didn't it?



          Inet to help you! Well, if you don’t know, then why talk with the air of a specialist about what are you zero?
        7. evil hamster
          evil hamster 20 November 2013 19: 52
          0
          Well, you see everything on the Internet, you already know, tell me the siroma, so be so kind.
        8. servant.
          servant. 20 November 2013 20: 02
          -1
          The Internet is for you .... If you did not have and do not have a relationship with aviation, then what can you talk about? And if you have everything, you understand perfectly well that I have no desire to troll. Have a rest ...
        9. evil hamster
          evil hamster 20 November 2013 20: 08
          +1
          About how, for some reason I did not doubt that I would not wait for specifics from you. It’s a pity, but they started so confidently ...
        10. servant.
          servant. 20 November 2013 21: 19
          0
          Answer me if you consider yourself a person not the last in aviation. What are the parameters of the 5th generation aircraft? What are the parameters of the T-50 at the moment can be considered a 5th generation aircraft? According to what data can we conclude that the T-50 is superior to the raptor if all the performance characteristics are still secret? I’m a patriot of my country and I’m glad that at least something is being done, but I’m not going to try on pink glasses, I really need to look at things and the reality so far is that all the superiority over amers is only in the words of the manufacturers, that's when at least computer models of raptor air combat and T-50 and our plane will surpass Amer. I’ll be the first to sing diferembes .. In the meantime ... I’m just glad that at least some new airplanes appear in the army ..
        11. PLO
          PLO 20 November 2013 22: 01
          +1
          Listen, servant, if you don’t know a damn about the fundamental differences between the generations of engines, why are you disgraced? request
          your baby talk about the Internet looks very sorry.
        12. evil hamster
          evil hamster 20 November 2013 22: 36
          +2
          The points.
          1.
          What are the parameters of the 5th generation aircraft?
          This is determined by the planning authorities of the customer, that is, the RF Air Force. The opinion of the Internet community on this matter, I think, is of little interest to them. And in general, "generations" is a conditional thing, here the F22 has a non-afterburner supersonic, but the F35 does not, but the concorde accelerated to 2M on afterburner, then it was turned off and continued to cut further, already without afterburner, and why is it now a 5th generation fighter? Or maybe the 5th generation Olympus engine?
          2.
          Quote: serviceman.
          What are the parameters of the T-50 at the moment can be considered a 5th generation aircraft?
          I have no idea. see below.
          3.
          Quote: serviceman.
          According to what data can we conclude that the T-50 is superior to the raptor if all the performance characteristics are still secret?
          Here we come to the most interesting. You recently argued that the T50 does not have any over-the-top supersound, to which I asked you where the firewood came from, and in response, search for silence and advice on the Internet.
          4.
          Quote: serviceman.
          I’m a patriot of my country and I’m glad that at least something is being done, but I’m not going to try on pink glasses, I really need to
          So look, who's stopping you? Deferembes are not defermbes, but there is no reason to believe that the T50 has no afterburning supersound until other data appear, I ask you to notice the authoritative data.
          As for your previous question, then:
          - Probably PAKFA will be faster than F22, as the adjustable air intake indicates to us
          - PAK FA radar will be at least no worse in terms of range and more widely angled due to side grilles
          - with great certainty we can say that at subsonic speeds the PAK FA will be more maneuverable
          - probably the afterburner will be more heavily armed
          - Most likely he will be able to use large ammunition from the internal compartments and a wider range of them.
          - Well, the optical system is definitely better than Raptorovskaya due to the complete absence of such.
          But these are assumptions on indirect grounds and extremely mean of. information.
        13. alexng
          alexng 21 November 2013 00: 18
          +1
          From the information from the designers, the T-50 made the opening of the wings of the internal weapons compartment with super sound and the results confirmed that it is possible to launch rockets in supersonic mode. This cannot be done by the F-22 and it needs to switch to subsonic speed, otherwise it will fall apart in the air when the shutters open, and this was confirmed by the Americans themselves.
          And some of the figures F-22 makes using afterburner, while the T-50 does it all with ease without afterburner.
        14. servant.
          servant. 21 November 2013 07: 58
          +1
          Well, I understand you, you definitely took all your calculations from the Internet, all your reasoning "can be assumed" is "probably" and nothing more ... F35 has supersonic sound in non-afterburner modes, so for your information. According to all statements, the teshka will have a non-afterburning supersonic sound only with a second stage engine ...
          Take off your pink glasses, we don’t have a 5th generation plane yet, as much as we wouldn’t want, while prototypes ... According to all statements by our officials, it will not be such until 2020 ..
          Everything backward from the opera, the armor is strong ..
          http://topwar.ru/29802-poetapno-k-pyatomu-pokoleniyu.html
        15. evil hamster
          evil hamster 21 November 2013 11: 25
          0
          Hmm ... I confess I thought that you are a sane person who just read something wrong, apparently I was mistaken
        16. servant.
          servant. 21 November 2013 12: 28
          0
          Quote: evil hamster
          Hmm ... I confess I thought that you are a sane person who just read something wrong, apparently I was mistaken

          You also seemed to me to be a man who graduated from high school!

          Where do you get data on the amer technique? Is it from an Internet? Then where from? Where do you say you have the tiniest data on the T-50 if they are secret? Are you a designer or veneer? Or do you still draw your meager thoughts after reading on the Internet but still failing to systematize the information received?
          Learning you need an hamster inetny! Good luck arguing with you, don't respect yourself!
        17. evil hamster
          evil hamster 21 November 2013 13: 01
          0
          Bggg, as I understand it, is this an attempt on your part, having liquidated yourself, to get out of the dispute with your head held high? Well, as you say, it didn’t come out very honestly.
        18. servant.
          servant. 21 November 2013 13: 26
          0
          You do not want to crawl out of your liquid. The answer to the questions asked by a connoisseur and everything will become clear with your hamster bravado!
        19. evil hamster
          evil hamster 21 November 2013 13: 49
          -1
          Quote: serviceman.
          What it flew by is not an engine for a 5th generation airplane because cannot provide cruising supersonic flight at afterburner mode (this is one of the conditions for a 5th generation aircraft)

          Quote: serviceman.
          According to what data can we conclude that the T-50 is superior to the raptor if all the performance characteristics are still secret?

          Quote: serviceman.
          Where do you say you have the tiniest data on the T-50 if they are secret?

          It’s running down your foot, wipe it away faster until no one sees it!
        20. servant.
          servant. 21 November 2013 14: 01
          0
          Where are the answers to the questions hamster? Do you have any answers? Then relax your buttocks and enjoy your hamster !!!!!
  • alexng
    alexng 21 November 2013 15: 59
    -1
    Which one? The schoolboy is a twosome, with the intellect of a blonde. From the comments you can see that he just got up because of the school desk. Huskhorn.
  • PLO
    PLO 21 November 2013 15: 27
    +1
    Well, I understand you, you definitely took all your calculations from the Internet, all your reasoning "can be assumed" is "probably" and nothing more ... F35 has supersonic sound in non-afterburner modes, so for your information. According to all statements, the teshka will have a non-afterburning supersonic sound only with a second stage engine ...

    Do you have problems with long-term memory?
    I just brought you the link yesterday I already forgot apparently.
    so your frank lies about the whole statement are just ridiculous

    Fu-35 afterburner supersonic does not have according to the vice president of LM

    http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2012/November%202012/1112fighte
    r.aspx

    enjoy, just write it down, otherwise you’ll forget again, sickly
  • servant.
    servant. 21 November 2013 17: 12
    -1
    Relax and write down the idiot .., on different links different data, according to other statements it has, before being rude, study the issue.
    Yes, and your link is broken ....
  • PLO
    PLO 21 November 2013 17: 23
    0
    yeah, and you choose the ones you need and declare all the statements? yes you are a model of cunning

    Yes, and your link is broken ....

    what irony
    half-wit, unable to open a link, talks about 5th generation airplanes lol
    maybe you should go to school again, ask to be taught
  • Semen Semyonitch
    Semen Semyonitch 21 November 2013 00: 06
    +2
    Quote: Excalibur
    Quote: silver_roman
    I'm wondering: according to official sources, our AL-41F1 has a thrust of about 8800 kgf.
    What is the thrust of the fu-22? meaning without afterburner.

    The F-22 has an advantage in stealth, it will be the first to "see" the T-50, the first to launch a missile, and the first to kill.

    Yes, calm down, my dear. He will be the first to see, the first to release, the first to kill ... He will be the first to see ... But he will not tell anyone already ...
  • Good Ukraine
    Good Ukraine 21 November 2013 02: 07
    0
    laughing
    Quote: Excalibur
    The F-22 has an advantage in stealth, it will be the first to "see" the T-50, the first to launch a missile, and the first to kill.



    You got confused: "he will be the first to FOOK and DIE" lol
  • Excalibur
    Excalibur 20 November 2013 11: 48
    -5
    T-50 is developing a division of Sukhoi Design Bureau. The fighter is equipped with fundamentally new equipment, it is practically invisible to radar.


    Already discussed, but still ...
    t-50t-50

    t_50_1
    1. PLO
      PLO 20 November 2013 11: 51
      +2
      radar blocker, no?
      1. Excalibur
        Excalibur 20 November 2013 12: 08
        -5
        Quote: olp
        radar blocker, no?

        Quote: Altair
        There is an opinion (of a comrade who is well versed in this matter): protruding blades of the VNA (input guide vane) and the first stage of the engine compressor are clearly visible in the input device.
        1. PLO
          PLO 20 November 2013 12: 10
          +3
          what?
          -----------
          1. Excalibur
            Excalibur 20 November 2013 12: 35
            -2
            Quote: olp
            what?

            Not a radar blocker in the photo.
            1. PLO
              PLO 20 November 2013 12: 37
              +3
              this is a prototype, and one of the first simplest
    2. Moskva-7
      Moskva-7 21 November 2013 08: 59
      0
      This problem has been solved comprehensively, there is a patent.
  • Tarpon
    Tarpon 20 November 2013 11: 59
    +3
    The fifth flight model of the promising T-50 fighter (PAK FA) November 20, 2013 arrived safely to the airfield of the Gromov Flight Research Institute in Zhukovsky near Moscow!
  • Retx
    Retx 20 November 2013 12: 01
    16
    Have you seen a new coloring book? How do you like it?
    1. PLO
      PLO 20 November 2013 12: 02
      +2
      interesting is it RPM or just a new coloring
      1. Retx
        Retx 20 November 2013 12: 13
        +5
        write that just camouflage.
    2. Phantom Revolution
      Phantom Revolution 20 November 2013 12: 47
      +5
      The camouflage is cool, not seriously, it had to be done like that a long time ago, from below like a cloud, from above under the color of the landscape).
    3. silver_roman
      silver_roman 20 November 2013 13: 45
      +1
      Handsome!
      but it seems that this is far from the latest version!
    4. TSOOBER
      TSOOBER 20 November 2013 16: 07
      11
      It looks like a shark! (Photo clickable)
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Corsair
        Corsair 20 November 2013 18: 09
        +5
        Quote: TSOOBER
        Like a shark!

        The photo caused the same associations ...
        1. TSOOBER
          TSOOBER 20 November 2013 18: 26
          +1
          I just found in good quality who are interested in http://michaeldec.livejournal.com/22140.html
        2. TSOOBER
          TSOOBER 20 November 2013 18: 33
          +2
          conformal tanks wassat
      3. F117
        F117 20 November 2013 18: 58
        +2
        "smile" would he still
    5. Fraid
      Fraid 20 November 2013 18: 46
      +5
      Of course she is super. The luminous edging in the air has a kind of melting fuselage effect. The fighter imperceptibly becomes, really, the code flies, it seems that it is melting.

      In general, the coloring of Russian military equipment is the most innovative ever!
      Take camouflage of Su-35s fighters. So this is some kind of fairy tale !!

      Our beauties with samples of coloring 901 and 902 fascinate attention so
      that you just can’t come off.

      902


      901


      And the Su-47 Golden Eagle? Isn't it original?


      And our Su-33 aircraft carrier decks ?? Mm, marine!
      soldier
      Su-33


      Even more, the celestial crocodile Ka-52, presented to the world public this year in La Bourget, did not impress with its "skin"?



      Find something similar on NATO aviation. While looking,
      I declare completely responsibly - RUSSIA LEGEND OF FASHION
      on the podium of battle battles. wink
      1. TSOOBER
        TSOOBER 20 November 2013 20: 29
        +6
        And how do you like this coloring? good
        1. patsantre
          patsantre 21 November 2013 01: 11
          0
          Fucking, what kind of aircraft? 1 is the engine of everything, although similar to the Su-30.
          1. PLO
            PLO 21 November 2013 01: 20
            +1
            this is MiG-29UB
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 21 November 2013 01: 30
              +1
              Yes Oleg, he ran ahead of the paravoz. The PTB was embarrassed.
        2. Alex 241
          Alex 241 21 November 2013 01: 22
          +2
          The MiG-29ub is definitely brothers, it’s time to go to sleep apparently, it’s already buggy.
          1. studentmati
            studentmati 21 November 2013 01: 25
            +1
            Quote: Alex 241
            MiG-29ub .........................

            Who would doubt that?
          2. The comment was deleted.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 20 November 2013 12: 06
    +6
    Every day I would read such news! ... Flies takes off, they have passed tests of training, etc. Russia is focusing!
  • morpogr
    morpogr 20 November 2013 12: 15
    +3
    Lepota! Such news in the morning cheer up.
  • click80
    click80 20 November 2013 12: 44
    +5
    Exercises in the air: a fighter is flying to Moscow, bombers are flying to Rostov

    after reading the headline, I thought that these aircraft were training targets. Although it would be nice to test air defense systems using advanced military equipment, because the enemy will not fly to us on the old junk
  • chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 20 November 2013 13: 20
    +6
    Oh, these journalists, it has no analogues, then it is practically invisible to radars. How to understand, it is "invisible to radars", or it is "as if not visible to radars." Or it is theoretically visible, but in practice it is not. What language is that.
  • Oberst_71
    Oberst_71 20 November 2013 13: 54
    +2
    engines stand out like all Dryers. what is invisibility. if the engine floor goes out. And it's warm! what is invisibility? I don’t understand yet.
    1. evil hamster
      evil hamster 20 November 2013 17: 12
      +3
      This is not an engine, its fairing, and it is not painted because the titanium and hot, similar areas at Khryapa are also hot, because there are 1500 degrees in the combustion chamber just in case, and the gas stream, which is also characteristic, is very hot.
  • Oberst_71
    Oberst_71 20 November 2013 14: 14
    0
    Differences in engines. At the Raptor, everything is hidden, and no nozzles can be seen. And although it’s the Su-35, the T-50 has the same engine layout.
    1. patsantre
      patsantre 20 November 2013 21: 16
      -2
      What is characteristic, we even stated the fact of the fact)
  • mithridate
    mithridate 20 November 2013 15: 03
    0
    Quote: strannik595
    for this it is necessary that the tax with geometrical acceleration takes offshore investors in the garages of the Tararam Islands, Cyprus and other .... and the Accounts Chamber, coupled with the RF IC, more closely watched and prevented those wishing to live luxuriously at the expense of taxpayers, officers, pensioners, large families, etc. .d ....... then America will startle from the rumble of Russian armada in the sky laughing

    and which of those in power will climb into his own pocket?
    1. servant.
      servant. 20 November 2013 15: 10
      -2
      Why pocket yourself? For servicemen, the second year there is no indexation of monetary allowance, the solution of the housing problem has been delayed for a year. Housing and communal services, gas prices, taxes on the poor and not the introduction of progressive taxation .... etc.
  • ZU-23
    ZU-23 20 November 2013 15: 27
    +2
    We are waiting for the T-50 to enter the Air Force, I would also like to see a super aerobatic team at PAK FA such as Swifts and Russian Knights, this will be a mega show, you need to arrange this show for 70 years of Victory Day, shots all over the world.
    1. arnulla
      arnulla 20 November 2013 15: 39
      +2
      There will be no aerobatic team on the T-50 for another 20-30 years. And maybe never at all. Too expensive equipment for these fun.
      1. ZU-23
        ZU-23 20 November 2013 16: 14
        0
        Well, he took me naive upset))), well, at the expense of the group, you might be right, but they alone fly on all kinds of frogs, and on Victory Day it's generally sacred.
      2. Fraid
        Fraid 20 November 2013 19: 06
        +2
        You yourself are fun if you do not understand what is generally behind the aerobatic teams known around the world.
        Wherever they appear, there is frantic interest everywhere.
        That is why last year, Medvedev said that it was time for the pilots to transfer from the Su-27 to the Su-35. To advertise our latest weapons outside the homeland. And these are contracts, procurements, competition with NATO and all that follows from this. Of course, the development of thought is a group of T-50s.
        Americans are sure to get to the end !!
  • pahom54
    pahom54 20 November 2013 16: 04
    +2
    Good news. Only I DO NOT UNDERSTAND who was minus this article, to whom it is not a joy ??? !!!
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • UmaR
    UmaR 20 November 2013 16: 18
    -1
    The good news would be more T-50_tykh smile .
  • typhoon7
    typhoon7 20 November 2013 16: 27
    +2
    The car turns out absolutely cool. It is thought that if it is possible to realize the plan conceived by the fathers of designers, it will be the king of heaven, and for a long time. Well, judging by the fact that he gets up in the air, in close combat he will crush any enemy. We need more of these machines.
  • MBA78
    MBA78 20 November 2013 16: 27
    0
    Super ... flying saucer ... and she has a laser gun
    1. Excalibur
      Excalibur 20 November 2013 18: 08
      0
      Quote: MBA78
      Super ... flying saucer ... and she has a laser gun

      Nah ... Poghosyan says I’ll put the disintegrator of matter ... wink
      1. Alexander_
        Alexander_ 21 November 2013 03: 00
        0
        Well, yes, the Tanev annihilator is ready.
  • servant.
    servant. 20 November 2013 16: 35
    0
    Quote: typhoon7
    Well, judging by the fact that he gets up in the air, in close combat he will crush any enemy.


    If it comes to close combat .....
    1. Excalibur
      Excalibur 20 November 2013 18: 11
      -3
      Quote: serviceman.
      Quote: typhoon7
      Well, judging by the fact that he gets up in the air, in close combat he will crush any enemy.


      If it comes to close combat .....

      Exactly...
      1. Alex 241
        Alex 241 20 November 2013 18: 18
        +8
        ..............................................................
  • Was mammoth
    Was mammoth 20 November 2013 18: 18
    0
    Arrived already!
    1. Alex 241
      Alex 241 20 November 2013 18: 53
      +4
      ............................................
      1. Excalibur
        Excalibur 20 November 2013 19: 15
        -3
        What is more maneuverable - a rocket with gas-jet rudders launched into the rear hemisphere or T-50?
        1. Alex 241
          Alex 241 20 November 2013 20: 20
          +4
          What rocket? From what range?
          1. Excalibur
            Excalibur 20 November 2013 20: 26
            -6
            The situation is as in the video. Watch from 6: 16
            1. Alex 241
              Alex 241 20 November 2013 21: 24
              +4
              You mean how, in this case, the launch into the ZPS through the "back", here we are talking about the receipt of the target from the GOS from the NSCU, and the trajectory capture of the target. So the rocket must have maneuverable characteristics, since the predicted coordinates of the target are entered into the PIM. But the video is purely advertising, the eurofighter pours out all pipes, and ours, being in a more advantageous position, flies and smokes.
              1. Excalibur
                Excalibur 20 November 2013 21: 36
                -2
                Quote: Alex 241
                But the video is purely advertising, Eurofighter pours from all the pipes, and our being in a more favorable position flies and smokes.

                I do not argue...
                I'm talking about the fact that the USA / Europe is planning to use missiles launched into the rear hemisphere instead of over-maneuverability for close combat (read somewhere, I don’t remember where already).
                That is, it would be better to have more "stealth" (in the rear hemisphere) than super-maneuverability.
                1. Alex 241
                  Alex 241 20 November 2013 21: 42
                  +1
                  Such a launch is difficult to implement, there are a lot of factors. Especially in BMW, when the target is actively maneuvering. It would be better then to consider the return launch missiles when the GOS sees the target.
                  1. sams
                    sams 20 November 2013 22: 11
                    +1
                    Hello Alexander!
                    I go to the site irregularly.
                    I have not seen Dear VAF for a long time.
                    Is he still here?
                    1. Alex 241
                      Alex 241 20 November 2013 22: 13
                      +2
                      Greetings, sometimes it comes in. There is a lot of work.
                      1. sams
                        sams 20 November 2013 22: 18
                        +1
                        Thank you.
                        Glory to the Air Force!
                  2. Excalibur
                    Excalibur 20 November 2013 22: 35
                    -3
                    Quote: Alex 241
                    Such a launch is difficult to implement, a lot of factors. Especially in BMW, when the target is actively maneuvering.

                    Northrop Grumman claims the DAS F-35 is capable of this (melee guidance).
                    Watch video: 2: 02-3: 49.
        2. Onyx
          Onyx 21 November 2013 20: 02
          0
          Quote: Excalibur
          What is more maneuverable - a rocket with gas-jet rudders launched into the rear hemisphere or T-50?

          T-50
  • Manitoo
    Manitoo 20 November 2013 19: 03
    +1
    I don’t understand everything - can someone explain: some people have unsubscribed here that the engine has not yet been made for it and when they will do it - it is not known, but in open sources, but at least in the same Wikipedia it is written: “On the prototype T-50, and also on the first production models, which are to enter service with the Russian Air Force in 2015, engines of the first stage - "AL-41F1" (Product 117), are installed. This is an aviation turbojet bypass engine with an afterburner and a controlled thrust vector, which meets ALL requirements to an engine for a fifth-generation fighter ", - meets ALL the requirements for an engine for a fifth-generation fighter, so tell me who's lying to Wikipedia or is it just some people who are cheating here ???
    1. Botanologist
      Botanologist 20 November 2013 20: 46
      +1
      Quote: Manitoo
      satisfying ALL engine requirements for a fifth generation fighter ",


      The engine of the second stage will be easier by 15% and lower fuel consumption. And in aviation, as you understand, 10% is already a breakthrough in technology and a civil feat.
      In addition, it is simpler (as promised), and this is reliability.
  • ochakow703
    ochakow703 20 November 2013 19: 43
    0
    Good news. Great plane. The men at the factories and the design bureau have not yet transferred. This makes me happy. Here in the Kremlin, but in the government there would be more brainy ones, otherwise it’s only thieves ...
  • ZU-23
    ZU-23 20 November 2013 19: 45
    +1
    Now the Americans themselves admit that the average age of the fleet is about 25 years. In the foreseeable future, a large number of military aircraft for various purposes will be decommissioned. At the same time, replacing them with new ones is not a near-term prospect, since the production of the F-22 is discontinued, and the F-35 is not yet a “brought to mind" machine, which also causes a lot of criticism.
    1. patsantre
      patsantre 20 November 2013 21: 21
      +1
      But they have this fleet repeatedly upgraded, and has little in common with machines 25 years ago.
    2. alone
      alone 20 November 2013 22: 05
      +1
      Quote: ZU-23
      Now the Americans themselves admit that the average age of the fleet is about 25 years. In the foreseeable future, a large number of military aircraft for various purposes will be decommissioned. At the same time, replacing them with new ones is not a near-term prospect, since the production of the F-22 is discontinued, and the F-35 is not yet a “brought to mind" machine, which also causes a lot of criticism.


      American planes have the specifics of being constantly modernized. Unfortunately, in this regard, Russia has lost a lot of time. Because of the ineffective managers.
      1. poquello
        poquello 20 November 2013 23: 27
        +1
        "You see, they actually fly, but low, low!"
        (piece of an old joke)

        IMHO they slowly kill amers_ on airplanes, now drones rule.

        To robot: if I write "am" - will it also be like "Americans" on the screen?
  • ded10041948
    ded10041948 20 November 2013 22: 29
    +1
    And how else did the stool with makar not promote the rulers for the purchase of the f-22 from the Yankes? The perfect addition to the mistrals! And there would be a complete "paragraph" and the Su-35 and T-50 and the entire military aircraft industry.
    Now the "bones" remain, but we will increase the "meat"!
  • darksoul
    darksoul 20 November 2013 22: 40
    +2
    Well, now 5 pieces of T-50 are still experimental, I hope soon fighting as part of the Air Force
  • ikrut
    ikrut 20 November 2013 23: 04
    +1
    [quote = Excalibur]Opinion of the teacher of the Department of Aviation Radioelectronic Facilities of the Chelyabinsk VVAUSH: the T-50 has turbine blades and in the front hemisphere the RCS will be incomparably LARGER than that of the F-22. That is, the Raptor will "see" it first.

    actually - in the T-50, according to its creators - the shape of the air intakes is such (curved) that the turbine blades are just NOT visible. I don't think this "teacher" saw near the T-50. I read that even when it was shown at the exhibition, the air intakes were closed. Therefore, there are speculations in this regard. IMHO. And to discuss conjectures - there is not much point.
    1. Excalibur
      Excalibur 20 November 2013 23: 11
      -2
      Quote: ikrut
      actually - in the T-50, according to its creators - the shape of the air intakes is such (curved) that the turbine blades are just NOT visible. I don't think this "teacher" saw near the T-50. I read that even when it was shown at the exhibition, the air intakes were closed. Therefore, there are speculations in this regard. IMHO. And to discuss conjectures - there is not much point.

      Do you have vision problems? See my photos above!
  • typhoon7
    typhoon7 21 November 2013 02: 35
    +1
    Quote: olp
    Are you talking about the Fu-35 which has no cruising supersonic and will not?
    But is there a fifth-generation engine?
    it's a hard case

    Yes, and it looks like a congenital pathology.
  • lazy
    lazy 21 November 2013 09: 54
    0
    Tell me, in order to "see" you need to turn on your radar. and then is it so important, the blades are visible, the shoulder blades are not visible. yes, let the f-22 be like a super ninja in black clothes on a moonless night but with the flashlight on, well, shoot at the flashlight wink
    1. Excalibur
      Excalibur 21 November 2013 12: 46
      0
      Quote: lazy
      Tell me, in order to "see" you need to turn on your radar. and then is it so important, the blades are visible, the shoulder blades are not visible. yes, let the f-22 be like a super ninja in black clothes on a moonless night but with the flashlight on, well, shoot at the flashlight wink

      F-22 has LPI mode - low probability of interception, in which the enemy’s STR / RTR stations do not register that they are being irradiated:

      The Low Intercept Probability (LPI) radar capability defeats conventional STR / RTR systems. The AN / APG-77 radar is capable of performing an active radar search for a fighter aircraft equipped with STR / RTR equipment without the target knowing that it is being irradiated. Unlike conventional radars that emit powerful energy pulses in a narrow frequency range, AN / APG-77 emits low-energy pulses in a wide frequency range using a technique called broadband transmission. When multiple echoes return, the radar signal processor combines these signals. The amount of energy reflected back to the target is at the same level as a conventional radar, but since each LPI pulse has a significantly lower amount of energy and a different signal structure, it will be difficult for the target to detect the F-22.

      Well and AWACS of course.
  • Manul
    Manul 21 November 2013 11: 41
    0
    [quote = Warrawar] [quote = tank] And the engines on the T-50 are of the previous generation, as I understand it? [/ quote]
    There are 4 ++ engines of deep modernization (product 117). But these engines are temporary, a little later there will be special engines of the 5th generation, "the second stage"
    http://telegrafist.org/2013/08/14/78721/
    http://vpk.name/news/94764_finalnyii_dvigatel_dlya_t50_budet_razrabotan_v_2015_g

    Thanks for the question and answer with links. I also wanted to ask and learn about the process of creating new engines.