Military Review

Heroes who stopped Typhoon

57
The Great Patriotic War was marked unprecedented in stories massive heroism of Soviet soldiers. Private soldiers, commanders and generals — all, without distinction of rank or rank, tried to protect their homeland, even at the cost of their own lives. This was especially important in the first, most difficult and terrible months, when an armored wave of Wehrmacht troops rolled to the East. It seemed to roll inevitably, but as a result, it broke about the reefs, which for it became the Brest Fortress and Odessa, Kiev and Sevastopol, Moscow and Stalingrad ... And, of course, the Dubosekovo railway junction, which wasn’t known before 16 in November 1941. that the locals. Then the whole country became aware of it.


Heroes who stopped Typhoon
Fearless division commander - Hero of the Soviet Union, Major General Ivan Vasilyevich Panfilov (far left). According to some reports, the picture was taken on the day of his death.


Shortly before that, at the end of October, the first stage of the offensive operation called “Typhoon” was completed, the purpose of which was to capture Moscow. The Germans reached the nearest approaches to the capital, smashing three Soviet fronts under Vyazma. The tactical victory was won, and the Hitlerite generals decided to take a breather - the battered units in the battles had to wait for replenishment. Ko NNUMX November on the Volokolamsk direction stabilized the front line, the Wehrmacht troops temporarily went on the defensive, but this fact is not particularly worried about the Berlin strategists, because to Moscow and really, if you look at the map, it was a stone's throw. One more shot, one more blow of the tank "fist" - like dozens inflicted all over Europe ...

After a two-week lull, the Germans again launched an offensive, trying, by all means, to complete the next campaign in 1941. The new blitzkrieg was as close as ever, because the defensive line of the Red Army was dangerously stretched. But its role was played by the fact that no headquarters could have foreseen it.

On the Volokolamsk direction, the 41-kilometer front was defended by the 316th rifle division under the command of Major General Panfilov, the flanks of which were covered by the 126th rifle division on the right, and the 50th cavalry division from the Dovator corps on the left. It was at these "joints" on November 16 that the main blow of two German tank divisions, one of which went directly to the Dubosekovo area, at the position of the 2nd battalion of the 1975 rifle regiment of the 316th division.

This unit previously suffered significant losses, but it managed to come replenishment. Anti-tank guns were at his disposal (although most of them were not powerful enough), and the novelty was the ATGM anti-tank guns. They were handed over to a special group of tank destroyers in the amount of approximately 30 people under the command of 30-year-old political officer Vasily Klochkov, formed from the most persistent and accurate soldiers of the 4-th company of the 1975-regiment. They became famous Panfilov, to break the rapid offensive tank armada. From 54 tanks, while under constant shelling and bombing, during the battlefield of an hour of battle that lasted for 4, a handful of fighters destroyed 18 vehicles. The Germans considered these losses unacceptable and turned from the Volokolamsk direction. The enemy was stopped at the cost of life of the brave ones who did not pass the last frontier.

Already on November 27, the newspaper Krasnaya Zvezda reported on this feat for the first time, indicating that all the Red Army soldiers guarding the siding were 29, but one turned out to be a traitor and was shot by the others. In the years of “perestroika”, this figure was the reason for the attempt to “cancel” the battle at Dubosekovo or at least downplay its significance. Indeed, a few days after the events, at the request of the correspondent Krivitsky, the company commander captain Gundilovich made a list of fighters, who later honestly admitted that he could not remember or make a mistake, because the fighter group included not only his subordinates, but also volunteers from other units of the regiment. But later, already in 1942, when the participants of the battle were presented to the title of Hero of the Soviet Union, all the circumstances were established. Only the turmoil of the war years did not allow timely delivery of awards to all Panfilovites, of whom, as it turned out, 6 people survived - two were injured or shell-shocked, two passed through German captivity ...

To this day, there are disputes over whether political politician Klochkov, who threw himself with a bunch of grenades under a tank, during the battle, actually spoke the famous phrase “Russia is great, but there is nowhere to retreat behind Moscow!”. But just so, 6 soldiers stand at the memorial to the fallen in the battle - representatives of 6 nationalities, united in the face of death by their love for their great Motherland, with their backs to their capital and face to where enemy tanks attacked. Their act then, in 1941, played a huge mobilizing role. The Germans did not break through in Moscow, the battle for which was one of the decisive during the entire Great Patriotic War and the most important event of its first year, when Hitlerite "Typhoon" did not gain full force. And the memory of the courage of Panfilov remained alive after decades.
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  1. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets 18 November 2013 08: 21
    14
    My cousin uncle went missing in October 1941 near Naro-Fominsk, and called in September, he was only 18 years old. Red Army 1st Guards Motorized Rifle Division.
  2. Rinat 1
    Rinat 1 18 November 2013 08: 32
    22
    These were worthy sons of their people! 316 sd was formed in Kazakhstan. And although the steppes of Kazakhstan were far from Moscow, they fought to the end. Realizing that she is alone, the Motherland. And I think that today's youth should remember this when a multinational country is united and no one can defeat it! Thanks to our grandfathers who defeated the fascist hordes.
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 18 November 2013 09: 47
      17
      Quote: Rinat 1
      These were worthy sons of their people! 316 sd was formed in Kazakhstan.


      Alexander Beck's book "Volokolamskoe Shosse", which I read as a young man, and in which we are talking about 316 SD, General Panfilov, strengthened my desire to link my life with the Army. A strong book about the Strong-willed People.
      1. Vadim2013
        Vadim2013 18 November 2013 16: 22
        +5
        I also read the book by Burdzhan Momysh-uly "Moscow is behind us". Eternal glory and memory to the soldiers and officers who defended Moscow in 1941
        1. Kasym
          Kasym 18 November 2013 17: 49
          +6
          Vadim 2013, good evening! Baurzhan will be correct. I apologize if that. Well done, he was not afraid to introduce "novelty" into battle tactics. I applied what my ancestors taught. Only for modern warfare. The tactics of a "wolf pack" or exhausting the enemy with constant maneuvers. His examples are still used to teach in schools. hi
          1. Vadim2013
            Vadim2013 18 November 2013 19: 44
            +4
            Kazym, good afternoon! Sorry for the typo, sometimes I don't print the "a". I wrote the author's surname from a book I bought in 1988.
    2. amigo1969
      amigo1969 18 November 2013 10: 03
      17
      That's for sure!! I often visit Central Asia. And only in Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan they honor the memory of their ancestors who died in the war. All the monuments are in place, always flowers, people remember and are proud. A significant part of the units participating in the battle of Moscow were formed in Siberia, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan. The unit of my grandfather, who left the encirclement in October of the 41st, was poured into the division from Kazakhstan. Thanks to the Soviet people !!!
      1. Walking
        Walking 18 November 2013 14: 30
        10
        Glory to all who fought and eternal memory to those who laid their heads in battles for a great country!
  3. aszzz888
    aszzz888 18 November 2013 08: 44
    +7
    Eternal Memory of the Fallen!
    These people then knew why they were dying.
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 18 November 2013 09: 51
      +3
      Quote: aszzz888
      Eternal Memory of the Fallen!
      These people then knew why they were dying.


      If these People survived to our time, then, I am afraid, they would die of grief and shame when they saw our reality. I wouldn’t be able to look into their eyes out of shame.
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 19 November 2013 03: 18
        +2
        Kazakh group "Motor Scooter", director - Russian, actors - Ukrainians. One of the best songs about the war, about us, and about what we are stuck in.
  4. albai
    albai 18 November 2013 08: 56
    +6
    But just like that, 6 soldiers standing at the memorial to those who fell in that battle stand with their backs to their capital and face to where the enemy tanks were advancing - representatives of 6 nationalities united by love of a great Motherland in the face of death.
    And it is precisely these people, united by the great goal of saving the Fatherland, who began to die in the snowy fields of the Moscow Region.
  5. amigo1969
    amigo1969 18 November 2013 09: 57
    11
    My grandfather is a participant in the battle of Moscow .. In January 1942 he was seriously wounded near Rzhev. The son of dispossessed, on June 22, together with his brother volunteered for the front. Once again you are convinced of the steel will of our ancestors. The enemy has attacked - go and fight, destroy him !! GOOD FELLOWS !!!
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 19 November 2013 03: 06
      +4
      In general, I am amazed at how many people from the families of "enemies of the people" turned out to be valiant soldiers! They tried with their blood to prove that they were not enemies to their country and their people, that a mistake had occurred, and that neither they themselves nor their relatives were the notorious "enemies of the people."
      Children of bays, kulaks, mullahs, priests, relatives of "spies" really thrashed the Nazis with wild rage, not yielding to the impeccable communists.
      I am studying the military history of Kazakhstan (just an amateur), and I often come across the fact that we have no-no bays in the KZ, they say, why was this or this Kazakh not given the title of Hero of the Soviet Union, although he performed all imaginable and inconceivable feats, and, essno, begin to blame that in Moscow, Russians and Jews clamped down on the nationalists in the matter of rewarding. Perhaps, somewhere these claims are justified, but in most cases, I come across the fact that this or that person could not just be awarded the Golden Star, because he was a relative of the "enemy of the people". And we, the Kazakhs, are all relatives to each other. Any Kazakh can find a relative in a cool position, and a convict, and a businessman, and an unemployed, and a drunkard, and a convinced Muslim, and who has a foreign MBA and graduated from school with triples. Studying the biographies of Kazakhs who did not receive the highest military award, you understand that the main reason is the family connection with the repressed.

      ZY My grandfather on my mother’s side was also nominated for the title of Hero of the Soviet Union in early 1945. He was a descendant of a bai (and one of the richest in southern Kazakhstan, and even received a title of nobility from the king). But the truth is, in his case, he received a refusal due to the fact that, having learned about his submission for the award, he, in joy with his fighters, opened a wine cellar in Prague and there they made some fun. He was then 18-19 years old. At the age of 15, he volunteered for the war, stealing the documents of his older brother. The trouble was a kid. In 1941 he went to the army, he was sent to the front in 1942 near Leningrad, but he took his first battle near Moscow, then, when the German was driven away from the capital, he fought near Leningrad (in the Museum of Defense of Leningrad there is his name), then he liberated Rzhev, and near Kharkov he almost killed - his commander wrote him down on the lists of those killed, not expecting that he would survive after the wounds he received (documents stating that he was killed hang in the Memorial WBS), his name is written on a mass grave in Kharkov, but he survived and returned to duty and ended the war in the spring of 1945 in the Czech Republic. Then he fought with the Japanese (not far from my paternal grandfather), then from 1946 to 1948 he rebuilt the Moscow region and only in 1948 returned home, proving to everyone that he is a real son of his people, his country, and not a member of the family of "enemies of the people" ...
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 19 November 2013 03: 07
        +5
        My father's father is also from a family of "enemies of the people" (our family even had to change the surname, which we still bear). His younger brother, a railway engineer, was shot in 1937 as a "Japanese spy" (rehabilitated for lack of corpus delicti in the 50s). Grandfather went to war from the very beginning. Unfortunately, I don’t know the details, I’m slowly extracting from the archives. He ended the war and defeated the Kwantung Army. True, he returned home immediately after the victory over the Japanese in 1945.
        So, personally, I perfectly understood you -
        Quote: amigo1969
        The son of dispossessed, on June 22, together with his brother volunteered for the front. Once again you are convinced of the steel will of our ancestors. The enemy has attacked - go and fight, destroy him !! GOOD FELLOWS !!!

        And no matter how they swear at the authorities, at banks, at prices, etc. - if the "X" hour comes, then we or our children will give 200% to protect the Motherland, whatever it may be. We - Turks, Slavs, Caucasians, Russian Jews, "Mongolians", Finno-Ugric peoples, peoples of the Far North - have been living in one country for fifteen hundred years. With the same outer border. It's one thing to boast with each other, and another - when a brazen Western European or Chinese muzzle climbs towards us. A Georgian with a Russian, Rabinovich with Akhmetov, a Moldovan with a Yakut will always find a common language. With an external enemy - never.
        1. amigo1969
          amigo1969 19 November 2013 13: 46
          +1
          I agree! Quarrels in our communal apartment, the West perceives as enmity between peoples ... They are deeply mistaken))
  6. Bosk
    Bosk 18 November 2013 11: 20
    12
    At the end of the 41st, my grandfather volunteered, in the winter of the 42nd his regiment, where the same volunteers served, almost completely died in the Rzhev region ... my grandmother said that up to now two-thirds of the regiment are missing ... such here’s a sad story, a regiment that delayed German tanks for a day or two ... almost all of them are considered missing. And how many such heroes were missing during the whole war ... many human thanks to them.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 19 November 2013 02: 21
      +3
      May the earth rest in peace to your grandfather and grandfather Amigo1969. As the Kazakhs say in such cases - "imandy bolsyn".
      The Rzhev meat grinder is a heroic and tragic page in our history. And it is good that many now understand its significance, which is no lower than the Battle of Stalingrad.

      ZY Three years ago, the Kazakhs near Rzhev built (at their own expense) a memorial in honor of the killed Kazakhstanis. There, shoulder to shoulder with other Soviet soldiers, several divisions formed in the Kazakh SSR fought. The state even organized a special train "Kazakhstan-Rzhev" so that veterans and descendants of Kazakh soldiers who fought there could come to the scene of these battles.
      The baptism of fire was accepted by the soldiers of the 100th and 101st national Kazakh divisions from November 25 to December 20, 1942 at the Second Rzhev-Sychevsk operation (Operation Mars). They fought to the death, like other compatriots - out of 10 thousand Kazakhstanis near Rzhev, eight and a half thousand died.
  7. ed65b
    ed65b 18 November 2013 11: 29
    +4
    And the Uzbeks and Georgians erased the memory of their ancestors - heroes of the Second World War.
    1. amigo1969
      amigo1969 18 November 2013 11: 42
      +4
      Yes unfortunately!! I was in Tashkent. All monuments are destroyed, the eternal flame is extinguished. the alley was cut down where there was a monument to the only Uzbek general (Rakhimov, if I'm not mistaken ..)
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 18 November 2013 15: 59
        +6
        Quote: amigo1969
        Yes unfortunately!! I was in Tashkent. All monuments are destroyed, the eternal flame is extinguished. the alley was cut down where there was a monument to the only Uzbek general (Rakhimov, if I'm not mistaken ..)

        The avenue was renamed, the monument was moved to another place - to the outskirts. Sabir Rakhimov is an ethnic Kazakh, his wife is alive, his son is alive (lives in Moscow). He lived in Uzbekistan before the war, so he was registered as an Uzbek. Likewise, other ethnic Kazakhs who were Heroes of the Soviet Union - Uzbeks Rasul Isetov and Plis Nurpeisov - were recorded as "Uzbeks".
        It seems that the Uzbek authorities have decided to remove the monument to the hero of "foreign nationality". Moreover, the theme of the Great Patriotic War is being hushed up there. May 9 is a "Day of Remembrance and Honor", not Victory Day.
        1. amigo1969
          amigo1969 18 November 2013 16: 12
          +4
          Interesting about Rakhimov. thanks for the info!!
    2. Hudo
      Hudo 18 November 2013 14: 16
      15
      Quote: ed65b
      And the Uzbeks and Georgians erased the memory of their ancestors - heroes of the Second World War.


      I won’t tell about Uzbekistan, it’s only a fact that the evacuated children were placed on the forecourt (there was nowhere to place them), by the morning there was not a single child left - the Uzbek women took all of them into their large families, raising those adopted as their own, sharing much like that between children. And Georgia !!! Of the called up and mobilized 700 (000/1 of the population), 5 returned !!! And spit and spoil the deed of these people, can only infamous and worthless people, the last blasphemes. But we are not Chmyr, we remember and honor their feat!
      "The Soldier's Father" - a feature film directed in 1964 by director Rezo Chkheidze according to the script by Suliko Zhgenti - sneaks to the core! Who looked, reconsider again, and who didn’t look when they were young, it will be useful to know that Georgia is not only a tie-tailed mishiko.
  8. Stas57
    Stas57 18 November 2013 11: 40
    +4
    a very strange title for an article, which immediately drops the Ilyin line or the defense of Tula and other exploits.
    For me, they stopped Typhoon, and they, and soldiers of the 50 and 26 armies, and many many unknown and illustrious. After all, Typhoon is not a fight at d Dubosekovo
    1. Nagaibak
      Nagaibak 18 November 2013 12: 43
      +5
      stas57 "Typhoon is not a battle at d Dubosekovo"
      I'll correct you a little ... Not only at Dubosekovo. And I agree. It was a huge battle.
      It would be wrong to think that only the heroic 316 division met the Germans in the battles on the Volokolamsk direction. And only infantrymen with grenades stopped the enemy. Without detracting from the merits of the 316 Panfilov division, it should be said that ... as a result of a pause between the occupation of the Mozhaisk line and the start of battles on it, the 316 rifle division received at its disposal quite large artillery forces: four cannon artillery regiments of the RGVK, three anti-tank artillery regiments.
      Together with the regular artillery regiment of the compound (sixteen 76,2 mm guns, eight 122 mm howitzers), the defending artillery had 207 (two hundred seven) guns: four 25 mm anti-aircraft guns, thirty-two 45 mm anti-tank guns, fourteen 76,2 -mm regimental guns, seventy-nine (!) 76-mm guns, sixteen 85-mm guns, eight 122 mm howitzers, twenty-four 122-mm guns, thirty 152-mm howitzers-guns. There was no such powerful artillery fist in either the Mozhaisk or Maloyaroslavets directions. "P. 253
      “It is well known that following the results of the battles in the Volokolamsk direction, I. Panfilov’s division received the rank of 8th Guards, but few people know that at the same time 1 and 2 anti-tank artillery regiments received the rank of 289st and 296nd Guards. The role of artillery in this case is difficult to overestimate: unlike many battles of the summer-autumn campaign of 1941, the REDUCTION of the battle formations of the 316th Infantry Division was compensated by strong artillery support, both of 76-mm and 85-mm direct-fire guns, and mounted fire heavy guns "STR, 256 Isaev A.V. Five circles of hell. The Red Army in the "Cauldrons" .- M.: Yauza, Eksmo, 2008-400s.
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 18 November 2013 16: 24
        +7
        Yes, Panfilov struck in the front command the idea of ​​allocating reinforced artillery, and not discharging it in separate defense sectors. Panfilov and Momysh-uly used tactics that had not previously been used in the Red Army at the level of battalions and divisions - they created mobile groups that constantly "stung" the enemy in unexpected places, after which they abruptly left this sector to attack in another sector defense. The German units stupidly did not know where the main forces of the division were, since the line of defense of the 316th division was constantly changing. In short, the "Asian nomad strategy" is to fire with bows and knock to attack elsewhere. The tactics turned out to be absolutely winning, despite the fact that there were many times more Germans, they could not use their power to their full potential. The German fist "sank" into the void. At the same time, when the Germans got bogged down with Panfilov's men, they tried to attack Moscow from the other side of the front line, but Panfilov's men went to meet them again and again began to harass the enemy.
        Plus, a huge role was played by the fact that strict discipline reigned in the division, controlled by the unit commanders. The division really turned out to be "iron". Stalin could not fail to impress, especially considering the fact that many divisions (for example, the 52nd first formation or divisions of the Moscow militia) were easily crushed by the enemy in a few days, and the personnel turned out to be "morally unstable."
        The second Kazakhstani division, which at that moment was near the walls of Moscow - the Aktobe 312nd (with the death of the 52nd division, formed the 312nd division of the second formation, putting the commander of the Aktobe division) as extremely valiant.
        These two divisions proved to be a saving straw for Moscow. And it was they who played the main role in the dangerous weeks near Moscow, giving time for the arrival of fresh units from the Far East, the transfer of Kazakh divisions from the Leningrad direction to Moscow, and then the Siberian divisions arrived.
        1. Kasym
          Kasym 18 November 2013 19: 02
          +5
          Because of the large number of Asian faces, the Germans initially nicknamed it "Black Division". But then this name received a double meaning for them. She really turned black for them.
          As you know, in the initial period of the war, two regular armies from Central Asia were transferred to Iran to protect Lend-Lease and consolidate in the region. Therefore, mainly newly created units arrived at the front, but received at least some training. hi
      2. Stas57
        Stas57 18 November 2013 19: 14
        +2
        Nagaibak
        I really hope that next year a book will be published on this topic and in this area, with a complete analysis of both German and Soviet documents of different levels-railway, reports, etc.
        What I happened to read on the topic from what the author provided
        very interesting episodes, which were completely blurred with "feat 28".

        if possible, in the near future I can lay out some of the memories of the soldiers who fought in the division and division commanders made in 42-47
        although not all urapatriots may like it there, but sorry 41 is not 45.
        1. Nagaibak
          Nagaibak 18 November 2013 20: 27
          +1
          Thanks for the info we will wait. Documents? I love it ... I agree that reality is somewhat different from the canonical options. Who is the author? All the more interesting ... With all this, in truth, I respect the feat of 28 Panfilov’s. In principle, the symbol is not really important to me. Or a feat. I was brought up on their example. And in me, in general, all this harmoniously coexists.
          1. Stas57
            Stas57 18 November 2013 21: 50
            +1
            Nagaibak
            I can’t divulge yet, unfortunately, but the author is a very worthy and little-known specialist in the 41 year.
            I am sure at 99% that there will be no disruption of the veil, tantrums and screams, there will only be facts supported by documents from both sides
  9. George
    George 18 November 2013 12: 56
    +9
    It is clear that they were not the only ones who stopped the Fritz.
    It's just that Panfilov’s are a Symbol. A symbol of a big bummer for the Germans waiting for an early victory.
    For our people, they have become a symbol of resilience and heroism.
    Like Sailors, like Gastello, like Pavlov and Zaitsev and many others.
    1. slava_sherb
      slava_sherb 18 November 2013 15: 47
      0
      I only wish that the feats were true if they were symbols. The journalist of the "red star" himself later admitted that he wrote an article without leaving the dugout, and one of the heroes later served the Germans dead
      1. Peaceful military
        Peaceful military 18 November 2013 15: 54
        +3
        Quote: slava_sherb
        I only wish that the feats were true if they were symbols. The journalist of the "red star" himself later admitted that he wrote an article without leaving the dugout, and one of the heroes later served the Germans dead

        Who did he confess to? You? This is the anti-Soviet lie of liberalist periodicals during the perestroika period.
        1. slava_sherb
          slava_sherb 18 November 2013 15: 58
          0
          actually the military prosecutor’s office of the Ministry of Defense of the USSR
          1. Peaceful military
            Peaceful military 18 November 2013 16: 21
            0
            Quote: slava_sherb
            actually the military prosecutor’s office of the Ministry of Defense of the USSR

            Main Military Prosecutor's Office (GWP).
            I read this mole 25 years ago, no facts with the source (document). Do you know a reliable source?
            1. Stas57
              Stas57 18 November 2013 19: 09
              0
              no one bothers to go to the RGVA and check if the archive link is in the same wiki,
              and then argue
              1. Peaceful military
                Peaceful military 18 November 2013 20: 17
                0
                Quote: Stas57
                no one bothers to go to the RGVA and check if the archive link is in the same wiki,
                and then argue

                So what? Have you personally checked? Do you know where exactly this is and do not give this link? Why? fool
                1. Stas57
                  Stas57 18 November 2013 21: 47
                  0
                  So what? Have you personally checked? Do you know where exactly this is and do not give this link? Why?

                  you are very lazy.
                  forgive me, I wrote Russian in white, there is a link even on Wikipedia. for you. boldly
                  Reference report "About 28 Panfilov". State Archive of the Russian Federation. F.R. - 8131 c. Op. 37. D. 4041. LL 310 — 320

                  if you go to the archive website, then such a document of the prosecutor’s office is actually available in the catalog. Seek and dress.
                  and besides him there is still a mass of accompanying documents - cards, reports, etc. there are memoirs, memories. HBS Memorial in your hands, this is the easiest, I don’t have more saucers with rifles today
                  I read this mole 25 years ago, no facts with the source (document). Do you know a reliable source?

                  liberal mura too?
                  New world: magazine. - M., 1966. - No. 2. - S. 237.
                  In Lenin this number is

                  although if you are a believer, it is your business, but if a doubter and a seeker of truth,
                  Archive Addresses:
                  The archive is located in 2's buildings:
                  1. 119435, Moscow, ul. Bolshaya Pirogovskaya, 17 (main building)
                  2. 121059, Moscow, Berezhkovskaya nab., 26

                  http://www.statearchive.ru/contacts.html
                  I repeat, no one bothers to refute this "crap" by proving that there is no case of falsification
      2. amigo1969
        amigo1969 18 November 2013 16: 18
        +6
        Symbols and heroes (even embellished ones) are always necessary !! Americans and others. they did not skimp on embellishing the exploits of their soldiers (for example, the machine gunner Basilone) .. Even if there were not 28, but 128 of them and Klochkov did not utter his famous phrase - the fact remains! The Germans did not pass, they got a good hit on the "nostrils" and paved the winter roads of the Moscow region with frozen corpses.
      3. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 18 November 2013 16: 20
        +1
        The journalist himself, perhaps, did not get out of the dugout, but the event displayed correctly. The military prosecutor’s office then (in the forties) questioned the surviving Panfilov’s and they confirmed what was written in the article, including Klochkov’s words about Moscow.
    2. slava_sherb
      slava_sherb 18 November 2013 15: 49
      -3
      Can you imagine live this bunker that closed the Sailors, I imagine covering it with his body so that he does not shoot impossible.
      1. Sugar Honeyovich
        Sugar Honeyovich 18 November 2013 16: 21
        +2
        So how did the Sailors close it? And 400 others?
        1. slava_sherb
          slava_sherb 19 November 2013 09: 03
          0
          I read the article and I advise you
          The Germans were the great docks in terms of building fortifications. Long-term emplacements, often made of steel or concrete, covered each other, behind them were self-propelled guns or batteries of anti-tank guns. All approaches to the bunkers were entangled with barbed wire and thickly mined. In the cities, every manhole or basement turned into such firing points. Even the ruins turned into impregnable forts.

          Of course, for the capture of such fortifications it was possible to use penalty boxes — it was pointless to lay thousands of soldiers and officers, bringing joy to future accusers of “Stalinism”. It was possible to rush to the embrasure - of course the act is heroic, but absolutely meaningless. In this regard, the Stake, which began to realize that it was time to stop fighting with the help of “cheers” and bayonet, and chose another way.
      2. Alexander 1958
        Alexander 1958 18 November 2013 22: 44
        +2
        That bunker, which the Sailors covered with an embrasure, I did not see, but the very meaning of the bunker design is to make its embrasure as close to the ground as possible, literally 30 centimeters no more. and the person lying in front of the embrasure on the ground simply closes the visibility of the machine gunner. It is impossible to remove the body because for this you need to get out of the bunker
    3. Stas57
      Stas57 18 November 2013 19: 26
      0
      HM, and for me the symbol of those who stopped the "typhoon", the Repeat Bryansk front, it was because of him that the movement of 2 TGs began to slow down, while the Germans were busy with it - they managed to collect 1 GVSK and fight back behind the Orel, the symbol of the Orlov landing, almost completely knocked out in an unequal battle, holding the defense for a day being surrounded, a symbol - an ISB 4 tbr, rushing with grenades at tanks from their cells and still lying in the craters unburied in a human way, symbol, Tula cadets and soldiers of the NKVD, symbol, 6th Guards Rifle Division and 11th brigade, which from 21 to 25 held back the superior enemy forces at Cherni, forces exceeding 2 if not 3 times (3,4,17 PzDiv, GD, corps and army art), I will write on a few more sheets of such events that really stopped Typhoon
      For me, they stopped the typhoon near Orel and Tula, I have such a symbol.
      I’m reading the heshihta of one division, and there, everything is fine, everything is fine, and then wai-wai-wai, alarm, drape march.
      ps, maybe just carefully choose loud titles for articles?
      Yes, and with symbols maybe it's time to round off? in the days not so distant, it was customary for us to put a concrete symbol in the field, and then still 40 for years around, through ravines and funnels, they find unknown fighters, and for years there will be enough searches for 50. After 70 years, people gather little stories in bits and pieces, find people, tell their relatives where they died, now grandfathers and great-grandfathers, because not all the children have waited, But the concrete symbol is worth it.
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 19 November 2013 02: 04
        +1
        Stas57,
        no one belittles the heroism of the soldiers of the Bryansk Front and other soldiers who got in the way of the Nazis to the capital, but the Panfilov division really stands out clearly from the rest of the Red Army divisions in 1941. And therefore only it is named after the divisional commander. There are simply no other Soviet units that received a name in honor of their commander in the Soviet army (except for the Chapaev division during the Civil War).
        1. Stas57
          Stas57 19 November 2013 08: 37
          0
          Hmm, but Katukov’s team does not stand out? And what about the guys? And the Tula militias?
          I repeat, why too loud a name that gives a double meaning "and what did the others do?"
  10. Walking
    Walking 18 November 2013 14: 38
    12
    We Kazakhstanis are proud of the Panfilov’s division, but we understand that not only did it decide the outcome of the battle, the Kremlin cadets and Siberians and many others stood side by side and were only able to defeat such an enemy together.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 18 November 2013 16: 29
      +4
      At the time the Germans attacked Moscow, there were no "Siberian divisions" at the walls of the capital. There were cadets, but their number was insignificant (without diminishing the feat). The Siberians were at that moment in other sectors of the front, but Moscow did not have them directly.
      Fresh Siberian divisions appeared later, when the Soviet counter-offensive began. And before them, Far Easterners and Kazakhstani divisions from near Leningrad arrived near Moscow (they only arrived there and were immediately transferred to defend the capital).
      1. Kasym
        Kasym 18 November 2013 18: 14
        +8
        Marek, you're right. Even the commander of the 16th Army, Rokossovsky noted. "Since the beginning of the war, this is the first time I have seen such a well-equipped and manned division. And what is especially valuable is that it is trained and prepared. You cannot throw unprepared volunteers into battle." And he put Panfilov's men in the most dangerous place.
        During the battle for Moscow, 16 divas were formed. Moscow militia - volunteers (160 people). In reality, there was not enough strength - volunteers, cadets, hastily formed units from retreating and emerging from the encirclement, units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. This is well described in "Memories and Reflections" by G.K. Zhukov . And it was only later that a reserve of Siberians and other units was formed for a counter-strike. Panfilov's men arrived at the most critical moment. hi
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 19 November 2013 01: 34
          +1
          312 and 316 were already created during the war ("over the norm"). The personnel consisted of conscripts and volunteers. If I'm not mistaken, they trained for about a month near Alma-Ata and only after that were they sent to the front. Of course, their training was better than that of the divisions of the Moscow militias, but it did not exceed the training of the personnel units of the Red Army, which were part of the Armed Forces before the war (reading the diaries of soldiers drafted into the newly formed divisions, I often come across the fact that their training lasted only several days, and the preparation lasted almost formally - in 1941-1943 they were in a hurry and very often just unprepared units were thrown into battle).
          Most of the soldiers in the 316th were adults in their 30s, not 18-year-old boys. In general, there is some evidence that the division was considered "unreliable" before the battles. many of the fighters were from families of "enemies of the people", of which in Kazakhstan it was above the roof, both from persons of the titular nationality, and among the settlers (dispossessed, exiled). And all the more surprising is the fact how staunch they were in the struggle for the Motherland.

          From the report of the commander of the 4th tank formation Erich Göpner about the 316th SD:
          "This is a savage division, fighting in violation of all regulations and rules of conduct of battle, whose soldiers do not surrender, are extremely fanatical and do not fear death."

          In the book of the former head of the information department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Hitler Germany, Paul Karel's "Eastern Front", compiled on the basis of archival documents and memoirs of German soldiers:
          “Moving quickly, the tankers broke into the positions of the Mongol brigade. But the sons of the steppes did not rush to run: they began to throw bottles with Molotov cocktails into the tanks.
          "On the other hand, the Mongolian and Siberian divisions transferred to Moscow from the Far East, differing from other units in their fighting spirit, fought bravely. Moscow was defended largely thanks to these troops."

          From the diary of a German corporal: "Hereditary Kazakh soldiers, trained in military affairs from an early age, are fighting against us."

          From another German diary about Panfilov’s: “If we knew that only one“ wild division ”was opposing us, we would add strength and crush this division or bypass it.”
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 19 November 2013 01: 36
            +1
            Not about Panfilov’s, but as a supplement:
            "Guidelines for the conduct of troops in Russia" (memo for German soldiers).
            3) In relation to all members of the Red Army - including prisoners - it is necessary to exercise caution and the most careful vigilance, taking into account their cunning in waging war. Especially secretive, unpredictable, insidious and insensitive Asian soldiers of the Red Army.

            From the memoirs of a German soldier:
            "From the point of view of an ordinary soldier, based on the experience of 2,5 years of close combat, we could distinguish [Soviet ethnic groups] from each other. We knew for sure if this company consisted mostly of those whom we called Tatars - not Muslims, but people with narrow eyes, different from the normal Russian face. Indeed, we saw it. We captured them - and what was the difference? In many ways, these people were even harsher and ruthless. Not a drop of Western morality. they shot everyone, including the wounded, and therefore we knew that the Tatar would shoot or throw a grenade at the last moment ... ”.

            From a letter from a murdered German non-commissioned officer: “We are now fighting near the old Russian city in the area that we call the“ death corridor. ”This is hell. Severe cold, minus 30-40, and every day a fierce battle. Russians, despite the hardest losses, continue deadly attacks. And these are not even Russians, but some narrow-eyed Asians, the hordes of Genghis Khan. We fight to the end, leaving the last cartridge, they do not take prisoners. Do you remember my comrade Vili? Yesterday he was in combat with his squad At night they were all cut out. Vili's throat and belly were cut open. "

            Halder, in his diary in 1941, first wrote that the Asians of the Red Army are garbage on a stick, but after a few weeks, wrote that it was the Asians who gave so much lyuley to one of the German divisions that Halder suggested that this ... personal protection of Stalin))))
            1. Marek Rozny
              Marek Rozny 19 November 2013 01: 42
              +1
              I don’t remember the details, but somewhere I read (you can google and search if you wish) the memories of one Kazakh who captured several fascists, but was wounded, and fearing to lose consciousness, and without wasting bullets, he cut the throats of all the prisoners, and only after This went off. Then our soldiers found him.

              ZY I found Halder's diary - in his "War Diary" on June 29, 1941 he first wrote: "... they surrender, first of all, where there is a large percentage of Mongolian peoples in the troops (before the front of the 6th and 9th armies ) ".
              But already on July 5 I had to write:
              "During the battles with the 'hordes of Mongols' (obviously, Stalin's personal bodyguards), wedged into the rear of the 6th Army, the 168th Infantry Division showed complete failure. A change of command staff is necessary."

              For information: July 8, 1941 the commander of the 168th German infantry division was removed.
      2. Nagaibak
        Nagaibak 18 November 2013 20: 40
        +1
        Marek Rozny "At the moment the Germans attacked Moscow, there were no" Siberian divisions "near the walls of the capital."
        By the way, the 316th division near Leningrad was headed for a strike near Tikhvin. He was soon undertaken. But already without them. They were redirected to Moscow. Were it not for them, another division would be sent from the Leningrad direction. Without artillery attached, the division would have been knocked down from positions earlier. There are no miracles. On October 16 and 17, tanks were knocked out by 85 mm anti-aircraft guns. On October 24, our 17th 53rd 312nd and 32 divisions were defeated. They did not have so much artillery. By the way, the Panfilovites were also shot down from the Mozhaisk line and they moved away. The main thing is they won time.
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 19 November 2013 01: 23
          +1
          Nagaybak, instead of Panfilov's division, another division could be sent. But Panfilov, the former military commissar of the city of Frunze, who at one time twice tried to be shot for willful character, and who, in a military way, creatively approached the fulfillment of his task, would not have been there. It was this divisional commander who "infected" his division with his tactics, and it was this Russian man, a Soviet officer, who saved Moscow. With all that it implies.
          1. Nagaibak
            Nagaibak 19 November 2013 06: 03
            +2
            Marek Rozny. "But Panfilov, the former military commissar of the city of Frunze, who at one time twice tried to be shot for willful character, and who, in a military way, creatively approached the performance of his task. It was this divisional commander who" infected "his division with his tactics, and it was this Russian man, a Soviet officer, who saved Moscow. With all that it implies. "
            With all due respect to Panfilov and his fighters, I can say that he certainly made decisions. But I can’t say that his decisions were fundamental and decisive. The army commander Rokossovsky made decisions and threw Panfilov artillery units of the force. For example, without infantry, he gave the command to send one tank brigade and one cannon regiment of the Russian Army and Military High Command on October 16-17 to the place of the planned breakthrough.
            Nevertheless, "On October 18, the attackers bypassed the barrier on the highway, and they advanced 10 km deep into the defense of the 316th division. Nine of the twenty 76mm guns of the 296th anti-tank regiment were disabled. However, time was gained by the relatively successful artillery duel. -mm and 76-mm guns with the 85nd tank division, allowed K.K. Rokossovsky to push the 2th anti-tank artillery regiment, the 289th cannon artillery regiment of the RGVK and the Katyusha group on the direction of the German offensive. 138-mm cannon A-122 arr. 19) were put on direct fire for firing along the highway.Attempts to develop the offensive on October 1931-19 did not bring success to the attackers, and from October 20 to 20 the 25nd Panzer Division put itself in order, waiting for the infantry to approach. "Page 2.
            Isaev A.V. Five circles of hell. Red Army in "boilers" .- M .: Yauza, Eksmo, 2008- 400s.
            The Germans failed to break through the Volokolamsk URA on the move. On October 19, Katukov’s tank brigade came up from under Tula. But they did not throw her into battle. In general, Marek, you know where the Germans dealt the main blow in the battle for Moscow. Right on the flanks. And it was there that their main forces were concentrated. Under Klin and Solnechnogorsk in the north and in the Tula region in the south. And it was from there that our counterattack began. And he made key decisions in the battle for Moscow, so I’m sorry not Panfilov, but Zhukov. To be completely objective. It is not true to reduce the battle for Moscow to the actions of one division. Panfilov commanded and made decisions at his own level and did not do it badly. But to say that he alone saved Moscow is stupid. If the Germans broke through to the north or south, the defenders would have had a hard time. This is what I want to say. You do not seem to notice the whole picture of the battle. We concentrated on one site. And suppose if the Germans took Tula and began to crush from the south? And from the north they came closest to Moscow. Those notorious 30 km ...
  11. yan
    yan 18 November 2013 15: 01
    +4
    Great in its essence understanding of the MOTHERLAND! Not just words, but the territory, which is everything for a person, home, protection, confidence! only this saved the great country, this is what united people, regardless of nationality and place of residence. The cry is not invented "For the Motherland!" And now? It is insulting to bitterness.
  12. Bigriver
    Bigriver 18 November 2013 15: 38
    +4
    "A courageous handful of fighters with a PTRD against an armada of tanks."

    A new reading of Glavpurovsky article? For the mass media - it’s good, for VO - no.
    Meanwhile, it would have been worthwhile to analyze the actions of the division! Since she showed a really well-organized defense, in which there were more than 10 artillery barrels per 1 km of the front in tank hazardous areas. The division, it seems (not sure), was one of the first to use mobile barrage units and counterattack tactics against the enemy preparing for the attack.
    As the author correctly quoted, the connection occupied a strip of 42 km. That is, the site is three times as large as the charter prescribed. And she kept the plot. Whereby? That's what you need to talk about.
    1. amigo1969
      amigo1969 18 November 2013 16: 23
      +5
      PTRD in 41 was a very effective weapon. the tanks that the Germans had at that time (T-2, T-3, Czech, Polish, etc. + armored personnel carriers) PTRD perfectly "worked out". So talking about unarmed soldiers and fierce NKVD officers behind your back is stupid and out of date for a long time ..
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 19 November 2013 01: 18
      +1
      Quote: BigRiver
      The division, it seems (not sure), was one of the first to use mobile barrage units and counterattack tactics against the enemy preparing for the attack.

      Everything is correct. This tactic was first used by the Panfilov division in the Red Army, therefore it is called "Panfilov's loop".
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. Asan Ata
    Asan Ata 18 November 2013 15: 54
    11
    General Panfilov near Alma-Ata ran his tractors into tractors - they imitated tanks. He was a real general, died in battle. And memorials dedicated to the war, we carefully guard. Eternal memory!
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 19 November 2013 01: 09
      +1
      I add with your permission:
      The native granddaughter of General Panfilov - Alua Baykadamova:
      "Grandfather's" Wild Division "... Who did it consist of? Soldiers - natives of auls. They didn't see cars, but the Nazi tanks stopped! ... How he prepared his rifle division for military operations - on his order in Talgar where the exercises took place, they dug trenches, and tractors, depicting tanks, were “ironed”. "

      Another granddaughter of Panfilov - Aigul Baykadamova:
      "... It brought together representatives of almost all the peoples of Central Asia, and not only Kazakhs and Kyrgyz, as it is commonly thought. Turkmen, Tajiks, Uzbeks - 42 nationalities, mostly Asians ... It is difficult to imagine the horror of the Germans who saw in front of them dark-skinned soldiers with twisted faces shouting not only “Hurray!”, but also strong curses in their own language. And our soldiers called the tanks “tractarlar” - “tractors.” During the attack, they loudly shouted these German letters in three letters. tractarlar "and beat the enemy mercilessly ..."
  15. vladstro
    vladstro 18 November 2013 17: 46
    +6
    The book by Alexander Bek "Volokolamskoe Shosse", which I read in my youth, and in which we are talking about 316 SD, General Panfilov, strengthened my desire to link my life with the Army. A strong book about Strong-willed People. And senior lieutenant Momysh-Uly battalion commander, Panfilov's reserve is a clear example of a real Soviet officer, I advise everyone who has not read "Volokolamskoe Shosse" to read everything there clearly why the German did not reach Moscow, are we capable of this now , that's the question, and then from one Serdyukov sick.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 19 November 2013 00: 59
      +1
      The book about the 8th State Duma (316 SD) is required for reading cadets of the military academies of Israel and Cuba.

      Well, the fact that we are Kazakhs, Russians, Ukrainians, Georgians, Azerbaijanis, Turkmens, Yakuts, Armenians, Belarusians, etc. able to repulse together any new attack on us - this is something that I have never doubted and do not doubt.

      Z.Y. My Buryat friends are proud that almost no Buryats were captured by the Nazis. I did not double-check their statement, but I have no doubt in their hardening.
  16. psyholirik
    psyholirik 18 November 2013 20: 00
    +4
    Eternal memory to the WARRIORS OF DEFENDERS OF OUR MOTHERLAND
  17. moskal
    moskal 18 November 2013 22: 06
    -2
    A military unit in which less than 30% of Russians are considered non-combat ready !!! (Marshal Bagromyan)
    1. Hudo
      Hudo 18 November 2013 22: 23
      0
      RU RU Today, 22:06 PM New
      (Marshal Bagromyan)

      Ivan Khristoforovich (Hovhannes Khachaturovich) Baghramyan twice Hero of the Soviet Union, holder of the seven orders of Lenin, Marshal of the Soviet Union. hi
    2. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 19 November 2013 00: 14
      +1
      Quote: b
      A military unit in which less than 30% of Russians are considered non-combat ready !!! (Marshal Bagromyan)

      In Kazakhstan there was not a single unit where the Russians would be at least half of the number. Nevertheless, absolutely all Kazakhstan divisions were distinguished by high combat efficiency. I’m not at all sure that Baghramyan said something like that. The marshal should have known that non-Russian divisions were not only not less combat-ready, but also that the Red Army had purely national divisions, where the Russians had a couple of people for show. For example, in Kazakhstan, the 101st, 102nd National Kazakh Rifle Divisions, 105th and 106th National Kazakh Cavalry Brigades were formed.

      And I will quote myself:
      "It is interesting to compare references to Soviet divisions in foreign sources and ours. Here, for example, is an excerpt from the book" Stalingrad "by the English historian Anthony Beevor (Anthony):
      “The political departments liked to talk about the multinational composition of the Red Army. Indeed, almost half of the 62nd Army, for example, were non-Russian fighters. Gradually propaganda stopped focusing on this. A lot of trouble was brought about by immigrants from Central Asia. One lieutenant, the commander of a machine gun company, reported: “They hardly understand Russian speech. It is very difficult to work with them. "Unfamiliar with modern military equipment, Asians were simply shocked by air strikes. Not knowing the language made it difficult to communicate. The soldiers did not understand the commanders and their orders. This often led to large losses that could have been avoided. 196th Infantry Division consisting mainly of Kazakhs, Uzbeks and Tatars, suffered such heavy losses that it was removed from the front and sent to re-form. "

      Thus, there is a feeling that the soldiers who did not understand the Russian language fought so badly that they had to send it to the rear ...
      Hmm, apparently, the British did not dig deep into this division - the 196th division really had language problems, the vast majority of the division (some of its divisions were 80%) consisted of Kazakhs from Western Kazakhstan and the Orenburg region, while the officers were exclusively Slavs. It is also true that the division suffered heavy losses and it had to retreat on the orders of the army headquarters - 500 people remained from the division, 200 of them were commanding and commanding personnel.

      However, the division was not only not punished for its "bad" ability to fight, but on the contrary - according to the submission signed by the commander of the 62nd Army, Lieutenant General V.I. Chuikov and a member of the Military Council, Major General K.A. Gurov, division was awarded the Order of the Red Banner for persistence and courage.

      The fact is that the "inattentive" English historian E. Bivor, noting that the Soviet division did not understand the language of the commanders and, indirectly linking this fact with its losses, "forgot" to add that only one 196th rifle division (together with a separate anti-tank regiment and a separate tank battalion of 40 tanks, half of which is a T-60 type trifle) managed not only to survive in the Stalingrad battles with several German divisions, but also inflict serious defeats on the 20th , 76th, 100th, 296th, 376th Infantry and 16th Panzer Divisions".
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 19 November 2013 00: 37
        +1
        Another "Stalingrad" Kazakh division - 72nd Guards Division, formed in Akmolinsk (present-day Astana) in the fall of 1941 (at birth it was called "29th SD").
        When the division went on the offensive on November 20, 1942, taking part in the encirclement of a German group near Stalingrad, for the courage and heroism shown by the personnel of the division in the Battle of Stalingrad, it was awarded the title “Guards”. Later it was renamed the 72nd Guards Rifle Division.
        The division itself was nicknamed the soldiers "Irreplaceable, Waterproof and Non-Drying" because of never for a long time was taken away from the front line either to the reserve, or to rest, or to reorganize.
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 19 November 2013 00: 56
          +2
          You can search further for information on other Kazakhstan divisions, and if you find at least one unit formed in the Kazakh steppe, for which you and I will be ashamed, then I will send a box of Kazakhstan cognac. If you do not find this, then it will be enough for me so that you do not write similar phrases that Baghramyan allegedly said, plus learn your native language.
          1. amigo1969
            amigo1969 19 November 2013 13: 52
            +1
            .. raise the statistics of draftees / deserters in all republics of the USSR. Especially gloomy statistics for some peoples of the Caucasus .... Kazakhs fought (massively) very worthy. Good gunners, mortars, sniper. Very hardy and unpretentious soldiers. When the commanders reported incapable national units, it was a question of the Caucasus region ..
  18. Stas57
    Stas57 19 November 2013 08: 38
    +1
    related article
  19. Sugar Honeyovich
    Sugar Honeyovich 19 November 2013 09: 51
    0
    Quote: slava_sherb
    I read the article and I advise you

    Of course, for the capture of such fortifications it was possible to use penalty boxes — it was pointless to lay thousands of soldiers and officers, bringing joy to future accusers of “Stalinism”. It was possible to rush to the embrasure - of course the act is heroic, but absolutely meaningless. In this regard, the Stake, which began to realize that it was time to stop fighting with the help of “cheers” and bayonet, and chose another way.

    And what is this "other way"? And throwing your chest into the embrasure is apparently not such a pointless act if it was used from August 1941, when there were no penalties and until August 1945, in the Japanese war. This included foreigners who were fighting on our front against the Germans.
  20. mithridate
    mithridate 19 November 2013 18: 55
    0
    eternal glory to the heroes who died in the name of our life! And in perestroika, the fifth column tried very hard for the benefit of their masters
  21. Antiaircrafter
    Antiaircrafter 21 November 2013 11: 25
    +1
    In the 282th motorized rifle regiment of the 8th Panfilov division (now the 1st separate motorized rifle brigade), stationed in the village of Koy-Tash 20 km from Bishkek, a memorial obelisk with the names of Heroes-Panfilovites is installed. The eternal memory of those who broke the ridge of fascism.
    Quote: amigo1969
    That's for sure!! I often visit Central Asia. And only in Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan they honor the memory of their ancestors who died in the war. All the monuments are in place, always flowers, people remember and are proud. A significant part of the units participating in the battle of Moscow were formed in Siberia, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan. The unit of my grandfather, who left the encirclement in October of the 41st, was poured into the division from Kazakhstan. Thanks to the Soviet people !!!