Military Review

The project of wide-body mid-range passenger aircraft An-218

35
The project of wide-body mid-range passenger aircraft An-218

Dry and in numbers - the An-218 was designed as a wide-body passenger aircraft. He had to fly on two engines from "Ruslan" and / or "Mriya", that is, the D-18TM, which was planned to upgrade. The number of passengers is usually different, depending on the planned modifications, in the 300-400 area. On the flight distance from 4500-9000 km. 59 meters length, wingspan 50 meters; diameter of the fuselage 5.6 meter. Maximum take-off weight 170000 kg.


When I first saw him (in the picture, of course), then my first association was something like this - “it's a classic.” Size, nose, keel, everything reminded me of the “essence of the plane”. All my life, when I used the phrase “passenger plane,” I used to draw in my head exactly such a picture. Everything is simple and elegant, nothing superfluous. It would be very interesting to look at this plane in reality. He would stand out very much from the general fleet of transports of the An family.

Why was he needed?

The main trump cards for him should have been, as they say, those who had anything to do with him: practicality in service, commercial profitability (for airlines), versatility of modifications ... in general, everything is standard (for example, they walk on the Internet data that he would have fuel consumption in 2 times smaller than the "Tu" or "IL"). In addition, P.V. Balabuyev saw in this (and further modifications) aircraft the future of the total passenger traffic in the CIS. Replace "IL", "Tu" ... really, if you dream, then of course the idea itself is good. Do not buy Boeing and Airbus, and build "their" large and small passenger aircraft. Orders are big ...


Calendar on 1993. Surely to raise morale in the team


Also, people as close as possible to the project have repeatedly said that by launching An-218 and making it more or less “massive” in production, it would greatly accelerate the program for fine-tuning D-18TM engines. That in parallel would be reflected in "An-124" and "An-225". And in general, the engine had problems that were fixed (and detected) before / during / after the first flight of the An-124. Since the An-218 engines should have been two, not four, as on the An-124, it was necessary to minimize all possible problems. Any plane crash of a passenger liner, due to engine failure, would put all the work at risk. Therefore, it was planned to allocate a considerable amount of fine-tuning and upgrading the engine. Looking ahead, we can say that it would be appropriate, since they are not being released at the present time, which slows down the program for the resumption of production of An-124.


Photo of the model of the museum of the ASTC. Antonov


Well, another reason that pushed the team on such projects as An-218 was “gigantism”. Create and build a large and successful liner, it is prestigious. It is beautiful, and against the background of other giants, released by Antonov, whether it is stylish or something. It is for this reason that the An-140 "was on the shelf" for a long time, which of course could not impress many fans of the "big one" comparing with the An-218. In the end, "An-218" still gave way to "An-140".


Photo of the model of the museum of the ASTC. Antonov


How far did the project go?

It is that far. This is interesting. It makes no sense to write so much, discussing only a picture marked “An-218”. After all, there are a lot of different layouts and ideas on any air production. There is no point in discussing them so seriously. And we are now talking about quite / almost finished aircraft. On paper, the plane was ready for 90 (85 as others say, but does it matter?) Percent (as for the final drawings and notes to them). The layout was compiled into a real (1: 1) value, made of wood. With a full layout of passenger seats, cabinets and of course the cockpit with working displays (special effects :)). Delegations of foreign customers drove into the aircraft mock-up at full speed ... As some eyewitnesses say, the workers really “burned” with this aircraft. At the beginning of difficult 90's, no one doubted that this plane would be in the sky. Not so long ago they raised "Mriya" to the sky. Now they have a new, worthy challenge.


This is how the layout looked like before disassembly-destruction. As you can see, there is already no part of the wing and the mock nacelle. 2007 year









Pages from various booklets about An-218


For the assembly of the first machine were laid stocks. According to some reports, some details on An-218 were even launched into actual production, but during 10 days, everything was discontinued. The parts themselves, according to the words, lay somewhere long outside. (maybe they are lying now, but what's the use?!)


Schemes An-218


And all this, all this work was in vain. In 94, funding stopped. Why? The future of the aircraft was very vague. This is a passenger plane. It had to be worked out completely before being handed over to the customer. After all, he does not carry goods, and people. And the reputation of the aircraft depended on the opinion of these very people. Compared to other players in the “passenger market”, the Antonovites lagged behind. And in those 90-e year "catch up and overtake" for "your account" was unreal. A lot of energy would be needed to bring the car to a "reliable" mind. So that the plane was not only good on paper, but also for passengers and airlines.


Demonstration of the passenger compartment. Layout inside


For economic benefits, it was necessary to build and build. This is not a transport worker, and Antonov Airlines would not need it. This aircraft was built purely for sale. The profitability of such projects is usually far from 5-10 machines, but more. Therefore, in this situation, you need either "all" or "nothing." The project "An-218" turned into "nothing."


Kuchma and Chernomyrdin signed a number of agreements on An-70 in the An-218 cabin. ON the photo also P.V. Balabuev and D.S. Kiva. The photo was published in the book "The Calling" by D.S. Kiva


Afterword ...

To be honest, and I would doubt this project. It was not that time. It was during this period, the maximum that could “come out”, this is another long-term construction with the label “an unparalleled aircraft” and “that’s about to go into series”. The minimum is the guest of any air show, the maximum is the subject for pumping money from foreign customers. Against the background of the same competitors, it would be a shame. Shame would not be the plane itself, but its implementation. But this did not happen. And good.



A couple of photos that accidentally hit (to the back) parts of the “An-218” layout. On the photo itself keel on AN-70


You can imagine what it was for those who "burned" with this plane. But the time was difficult:

- An-70 is about to be completed, hopes for it (to this day :));
- “An-225” Mriya becomes a seven-year parking / analysis due to lack of funds;
- the production of An-124 inertly goes (or has come) to its end;
- in a hurry, the OKB “switch” to the “modest” An-140, which, it already seems, is much more real and necessary than the same An-218 (although P. Balabuev did not think so at the end of the 80);
- plus inflation and other delights start 90-x, and as a result we have thrown and forgotten, quite a real plane.
That's what I think and remember, looking at his photos.

FLIGHT TECHNICAL CHARACTERISTICS

Type: wide-body mid-haul passenger aircraft

Crew: 2 person

Power plant: two TRDD D-18TM Zaporozhye ICD Progress (2 × 245,2 kN, 2 × 25 000 kgf); planned installation of engines D-18TP (2 × 269,7 kN, 2 × 27 500 kgf) or Rolls-Royce RB.211-524Н4

Dimensions:

wing span 50 m
58,15 aircraft length m
height of aircraft 15,6 m
Wing area 270 m²
diameter of the fuselage 5,62 m

The weight:

empty equipped aircraft 90000-91000 kg
maximum payload 42000 kg
maximum take-off 170000 kg

Number of passengers:

in a single-class layout 350 or 400 (810 seating pitch mm)
300 three-class layout (1020 / 870 / 810 seating pitch mm)

Flight data:

cruising speed 850-870 km / h
cruising altitude 10100-12100 m
practical range

- with a maximum payload of 4570 km
- with 350 passengers 6300 km
- with 400 passengers 5100 km
- with 300 passengers 7200 km
- with a full supply of fuel and 200 passengers 9400 km
required runway length 2900 m

Design features: An-218 used design solutions, technology and systems, worked on the An-124 aircraft and planned to include components and complexes of the Tu-204 aircraft. Wing with aerodynamic end surfaces. The landing gear was supposed to allow the aircraft to operate at the same airfields for coating strength as the Tu-154M and Tu-204, which would significantly expand the geography of the new airliner and make more 50 airports available to it (IL-86 operated on 19). The predicted design life was supposed to be 60000 flight hours.

Equipment: the installation of a pilotage-navigation complex was planned, which allowed the aircraft to be used at a minimum category IIIA of ICAO, the use of a highly automated cockpit was planned, the display system had to include six electronic indicators

Status: Canceled

For more information:

development began in 1991, the release of technical documentation was to be completed in the first half of 1993, the first flight of the prototype was scheduled for 1994, certification in the CIS - a year later. It was supposed to build An-218 in Ukraine, cooperating with the aircraft manufacturers of Russia. According to calculations, An-218 should have surpassed Tu-154 and IL-86 in fuel efficiency (An-218 should have consumed 18 g of fuel per passenger-kilometer against 34,5 g of IL-86), comfort, possibilities of transportation of packaged cargo, operational efficiency . It was supposed to develop a fundamentally new system of servicing the aircraft at the airport, reduce its labor intensity and get the operating time 3,5-4 thousand hours per year for each aircraft. The complexity of aircraft maintenance is estimated at 9,5 man-hours per 1 flight hour.

sources:
Article taken from http://maksiemens.livejournal.com/3289.html
slightly modified flight performance and design description taken from http://www.uhlib.ru/transport_i_aviacija/aviacija_i_kosmonavtika_1995_05/p23.php
some photos taken from http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3766.msg174081.html
Originator:
http://alternathistory.org.ua/proekt-shirokofyuzelyazhnogo-srednemagistralnogo-passazhirskogo-samoleta-218-ukraina
35 comments
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  1. bddrus
    bddrus 16 November 2013 07: 56
    22
    a lot of good projects faded, sorry.
    Apparently I am older than the author - I do not associate a "passenger plane" only with the 90s, when masses of Boeings and watermelons appeared. Previously, only such associations are the classics:
    1. UVB
      UVB 16 November 2013 09: 33
      13
      Tu-154, in my opinion, is the most beautiful passenger plane of all times and peoples! And precisely in this laconic "Aeroflot" coloring.
    2. self-propelled
      self-propelled 16 November 2013 09: 41
      +3
      Quote: bddrus
      a lot of good projects faded, sorry.

      yes ... there was still such a project of the mid-range An-180. for engines and some equipment should have been unified with An-70.
      1. VAF
        VAF 16 November 2013 11: 28
        +4
        Quote: self-propelled
        there was still such a project of the medium-range An-180


        We ourselves had such projects .. "like dirt", but ... alas and ah crying
        All "sound", so to the end .. spoil the mood recourse

        Photo of the layout of the Tu-204P anti-submarine patrol aircraft, the prototype workshop of Tupolev JSC, August 2013

        1. Siberian German
          Siberian German 17 November 2013 04: 42
          +3
          not for ourselves, but for the USSR - such is the logic that you have there and we have here even further separates us from each other
    3. Thepawlik
      Thepawlik 16 November 2013 12: 15
      +1
      Opened from the series "Fly Aeroflot" !!!!
      In general, "fifty dollars" is yes! Not like the airbags flying foil))))
  2. sashka
    sashka 16 November 2013 08: 31
    +1
    What is the meaning of the article? I didn’t understand anything ..
    1. pahom54
      pahom54 16 November 2013 09: 36
      16
      for Sasha
      The article once again showed what we lost after the collapse of the USSR. Antonov’s company itself was not able to master and complete its promising developments, but the projects were necessary for the whole country (I mean the USSR).
      And now, they wouldn’t bark among themselves, have mastered these projects together with Russia, since by and large, except for Russia-Ukraine_Belarus and maybe Kazakhstan, nobody needs these aircraft. But launching a series of these aircraft and mass purchasing by the countries already mentioned would help Antonov’s company build up and develop its innovative design potential, and Russia’s move away from the purchase of various Airbus, etc. (especially - often used).
      However, the fucking policy divided our states and thanks to it, the economy and industry continue to fall apart.
      Today it will be decided whether Ukraine will be admitted to the EU.
      And I will say this: today it will be decided whether the 3,14-dec Ukraine and its economy or not.
      Only in alliance with Russia can Ukraine hope for a revival of its economy and industry. Russia is interested in Ukraine in such matters as space and combat rocket science, aircraft building and offshore shipbuilding, machine-tool and tank building ... We still need each other, but another 2-5 years will pass, and our paths will FOREVER diverge. I am sure that Ukraine will be the most losing side ...
      1. ATATA
        ATATA 16 November 2013 11: 37
        +2
        Quote: pahom54
        the procurement by the countries already indicated would help Antonov’s company build up and develop its innovative design potential, and Russia - to get away from the procurement of different Airbus, etc.

        Russia has its own aircraft factories.
        As long as the simulacrum * Ukraine state exists in one form or another, Russia does not make sense to develop its industry.
        ps
        * simulacrum is an image without the original
        1. sashka
          sashka 17 November 2013 05: 23
          +2
          Quote: ATATA
          Russia has its own aircraft factories.

          It is said loudly .. And why did they demolish the plant in Saratov? Meaning? I do not understand..
          1. Shur
            Shur 17 November 2013 16: 41
            -2
            When in Ukrostan these plants will be sold for scrap it is worth asking the price. Capital goes where conditions exist. Nothing prevents to drag everything to Russia, except for political arbitrariness, which, by the way, is most fair.
      2. timer
        timer 17 November 2013 14: 56
        0
        I agree with the comments. From myself, I will only add - as long as the brotherly Ukrainian people will tolerate such "political prostitutes" as Yushchenko-Yanukovych, Ukraine will finally fall to pieces with the loss of industry, and will cease to interest Russia as a partner in political and economic terms for years to come.
        1. Shur
          Shur 17 November 2013 16: 42
          +1
          While the West needs it as a whole springboard.
      3. Shur
        Shur 17 November 2013 16: 32
        0
        The Russian people will lose, from which they finally bite off another piece. Everything goes to the point that Russia, as always, will grind all misfortunes., But I would like for us to be victorious. Though not in full force, but the Slavic world is alive by Russia. Ukraine is an artificial education, it needs the West.
  3. Evrepid
    Evrepid 16 November 2013 09: 21
    +3
    It was interesting to read about the project.
  4. Gamdlislyam
    Gamdlislyam 16 November 2013 09: 52
    -3
    The article is nothing. An unsuccessful project for a competition for wide-body aircraft due to the collapse of the USSR. Then in Russia, for obvious reasons, the IL-96 was preferred. Well, and after the collapse of the USSR, advertising articles about the An-218 super-plane, which even in the working drawings never existed, went for a walk on the pages of the independent and independent Hohland.
    Why laid out a compilation of past advertising articles, it is not clear !? what
  5. saag
    saag 16 November 2013 09: 57
    +3
    The ideas are good, they would be embodied in the Union, and since there is no market for them, everywhere they are competitors, and no one will give money
  6. svp67
    svp67 16 November 2013 10: 32
    +2
    Of course it is interesting, but it is unlikely that the "Tupolevs" and "Ilyushchents" in Soviet times would have let this plane into the "sky", then each design bureau had its own "specialization". And now NO ONE is waiting for him either ...
  7. vtur
    vtur 16 November 2013 11: 13
    14
    To read this article is how to step on a sore spot ... :(
    Little real story. I can not vouch for the 100% accuracy of the retelling, but it was something like this:
    In the year 91-92 Balabuev came to us at KhAI and spoke for students and teachers. The topic was just about the prospects for the development of civil aviation. It was about the ill-fated PS-90 and the fact that we have a wonderful D-18, for which we need to "sharpen" the program of passenger trains. The line was supposed to include 2, 3 and 4-engine aircraft, which were named so by the number of engines, respectively, AN-218, -318 and -418. I must say that a beautiful poster was hung for public viewing - it's a pity the author of the article did not find it. Further. The Antonov Design Bureau, on its own initiative, undertook the development of the -218th, and other OKBs (most likely, Tupolev and Ilyushin) proposed to build 3 and 4-engine aircraft.
    Twenty years later, of course, we look at the world with completely different eyes. The author, of course, wrongly assuring that the aircraft has no analogues - the data given approximately corresponds to the Boeing-767-200ER. An-418, most likely would be a direct competitor to the A-380, 15 years ahead of the last (which, most likely, would force the Europeans to abandon it altogether - there are no places for two elephants in one china shop).
    Returning to reality, what do we have "in the exhaust"? Aeroflot, UIA and all others fly in "foreign cars". Post-Soviet aviation industry, fortunately, that somehow survived, irrevocably losing its former potential. Being an AVIACONSTRUCTOR has become not something that is not prestigious, but materially unprofitable. But this is a separate topic.
    PS And the wooden model was really chic, I had a chance to visit it ...
  8. Akim
    Akim 16 November 2013 11: 49
    +3
    If the government supported its aviation industry from the initial level to the consumer - from benefits to the manufacturer, ending with preferences for the passenger. otherwise our airlines buy either the Chinese analogues Anov or the European second-hand. Among them, even the An-140 or An-148 has no place.
    What to do business. A Chinese imported mini-tractor costs less than a similar Kharkov or Dnepropetrovsk produced from us. The same Crap (sorry for the rude word) and with cars. Yes, absolutely. With the same mining flashlights and self-rescuers.
    1. vtur
      vtur 16 November 2013 13: 28
      +1
      Quote: Akim
      our airlines buy or Chinese analogues Anov

      ? !! Here is how! More details, please!
      And I was sure that there was nowhere to put my own! After the collapse of the USSR, airplanes, countries of the socialist camp, etc., were quickly seized, which led to a fall in prices on world markets for air cargo - flight hours were sold at bargain prices, which still haggles ...
      1. Akim
        Akim 16 November 2013 14: 03
        0
        Quote: vtur
        ? !! Here is how! More details, please!

        I know what you did last summer! am
        In June that year, Ukrainian airline MRK Airlines signed an agreement with Chinese manufacturer China's Xian Aircraft to supply three MA60 twin-engine turboprop aircraft.
        This is a small airline that previously had two Saab 340As.
        Here these Chinese fly or not I don’t know. They are very similar to the An-24, only a little longer.
        PS The price of An-140 is about 15 lemons. The price for this Chinese hole is less than 12 million. Our business jades naturally buy it.
        1. vtur
          vtur 16 November 2013 18: 47
          0
          I was surprised. Thank.
          Once I saw the MA-600 (further modification). Unfortunately, I didn't get inside. And outside, being well acquainted with the An-24, I saw many copied design solutions, down to the smallest detail. The chassis, for example, absolutely all components are copied from the An-24, but made for different wheels and the dimensions of all parts are different. But the hatch for grounding is the same "slop" as on the An-24 - one to one. As for the Saab 340, next to it is the An-24 superliner. I flew this airline and spat every time. I still do not know why the An-24 disappeared from the domestic airlines of Ukraine ...
          1. Akim
            Akim 17 November 2013 19: 07
            +1
            Quote: vtur
            I still don’t know why the An-24 disappeared from Ukraine’s domestic airlines ...

            Not removed. Scraps fly. But worn out already. And most of them are sold to Africa. Although there are accessories for them. Kharkov mass-produces An-32, and this is actually twin aircraft.
            1. vtur
              vtur 17 November 2013 19: 41
              0
              Quote: Akim
              Kharkov mass-produces An-32, and this is actually twin aircraft

              Well then! Two blunders in one sentence!
              1. Akim
                Akim 17 November 2013 20: 46
                0
                Quote: vtur
                Two blunders in one sentence!

                Well, explain the mediocrity. I found one. Not Kharkov, but Kiev.
    2. Corsair
      Corsair 16 November 2013 15: 22
      +3
      self-rescuer ShSS-1P
      Quote: Akim
      Yes, absolutely. With the same mining flashlights and self-rescuers.

      And what is not SO with the products you listed?
      As far as I know, all the mines of Ukraine (and Russia! fellow ) are staffed exclusively with "rescuers" of the "Donetsk mine rescue equipment plant".
      With "horse race" (lamps), the question is broader, several manufacturers are certified, including. the oldest Kharkov plant "Miner's Light", new (?) production in Sevastopol, etc.
      It is possible that the fixtures use components from China (LEDs and batteries), but the quality and characteristics of the products are even VERY level ...
      By the way, light methane signaling devices built into the luminaires also use EXCLUSIVELY domestic (Ukrainian) sensors.
      1. Akim
        Akim 17 November 2013 08: 05
        0
        Quote: Corsair
        As far as I know, all mines in Ukraine (and Russia!) Are staffed exclusively with "rescuers" of the "Donetsk mine rescue equipment plant"

        Now yes, and two years ago (even under the old regime), Chinese self-rescuers bought three mines. There was a whole conflict.
        1. Corsair
          Corsair 17 November 2013 12: 06
          0
          Quote: Akim
          Now yes, and two years ago (even under the old regime), Chinese self-rescuers bought three mines. There was a whole conflict.

          Given the level of corruption of Ukrainian officials, I am not at all surprised by your comment.
          True, I did not find descriptions of this "feat" on the network, but as a "chuyka" suggests, we can rather talk about semi-legal "holes" which by hook or by crook bypassing GosGorTechnadzor (or for bribes request ) assign the status of a "coal mining enterprise" i.e. "mine".
          Considering that at "normal" enterprises without a MANDATORY (!!!) certification at the Mac Research Institute (super-duper of the most authoritative organization of such a profile in the whole world since the days of the USSR), the operation of ANY equipment (including, of course, personal protective equipment) is impossible ...
    3. freedom2013
      freedom2013 16 November 2013 17: 48
      0
      Dear Akim, let's reason logically !!! Almost all airlines are now private, capitalism is his mother. Their owners know how to count money, so I mean: fuel consumption, MTBF, MTBF, average cost of transportation of a passenger, etc., etc. And Russia with Nenko in the 90s pumped almost all of these indicators. And, well, bachim - the market for wide-body civilian aircraft is packed with Boeing and Airbus and we should urinate against them against the wind (I believe so far). We need to look for our niche, which is done: An-148, SS-100, etc. As long as our states do not stand confidently economically on their feet (I apologize to you, I finally can’t see any prospects, because I visit Kharkov 2-3 times a year) and there’s nothing to twitch. It is necessary to perceive reality as it is, although this reality is very disgusting to me.
      1. Argon
        Argon 17 November 2013 04: 21
        +2
        Excuse my dear freedom 2013, but your statement is nothing more than the result of "shitty propaganda." The realities were somewhat different. At the moment, I cannot say anything because I have no information. Brother, commander, retired was released in 2007. At that time, the operation of the Tu-154, which is not capitalized in the period from 85 to 89, cost 1,8-2,5 times cheaper than any similar foreign car aged 10 to 20 years. (The main contingent that is now operated in Russia) Even taking into account a slightly higher fuel consumption. first, each regulation of a foreign car costs 3-4 times more (it really means some kind of replacement, and not climbing with drawing checkmarks in the check sheets), someone will say, "they need to be done less often" - In fact, the developer adjusted the maintenance requirements to GOST and they were the toughest in the world in the USSR (everything related to safety). Airbus allows the operation of a car with a crack in the wing element only after inspection!? (In the USSR, this was simply not conceivable). Spare parts for foreign cars are more expensive, with The cost of retraining, maintaining qualifications, was entrusted directly to the employee. The size of the bribe paid on the service in Moscow (for Boeing the only service station in Russia at that time) for setting \ position in the queue (otherwise a simple board) significantly influenced the economic efficiency. to certify repaired / converted domestic cars, and a lot more can be said. It's just that someone at the top really wanted planes to come to us from over the hill, so they began to squeeze out Soviet cars from the market, but about profitability, in our realities, all this is very relatively.
        1. Shur
          Shur 17 November 2013 16: 50
          +1
          Weak and useless power. All from the head. There is not even a desire for them to do something, there is no desire to pay these losers. We need really productive people. Everywhere they are screaming for competition, come on, we are "for", but there is no fair competition among them. While the government is dull. Such a person presses only her own people and suffers failures, is incapable of changing anything, since the support of the people is only in shouts and conversations.
        2. vtur
          vtur 17 November 2013 20: 12
          0
          Yak-42. Periodic maintenance form F-1 every 300 hours (then a schedule was introduced after 500). So, F-2 600 hours - is performed by changing periodic maintenance of 10 of those. and 4 ing. (this is min.) + AiREO laboratory, at best for 4-6 days.
          DC-9. R-Check the same 600 hours - enhanced night shift 8-10 people - ONE NIGHT.
          The plane flew in the evening, in the morning on a flight ...
          Of course, servicing western equipment is not cheap at all, especially for aircraft with a large operating time (for example, from 60,000 (!!!) flights), but the entire western MOT system is designed so that the aircraft does not stand idle ...
          Quote: Argon
          In fact, the developer customized the requirements for maintenance to state standards

          And what were these? Where can I find them?
      2. Akim
        Akim 17 November 2013 19: 26
        +1
        Quote: Freedom2013
        . We need to look for our niche, which is done: An-148, SS-100, etc.

        Okay, Ukraine - there are only domestic flights here. And then domestic planes do not buy. Because there are few flights inside the country (to arrive at the end of the city, register, sit down, fly if the weather permits, land and hell too from where to get. All this takes three hours from Odessa to Kiev (Zhuliany airport). I’m better in 6 hours by bus or 5 hours to Inter-City (train flight from January next year) I’ll get from center to center and 5-6 times cheaper. Banking systems don’t want to buy domestic planes to lease them. And aircraft manufacturers themselves can’t so tighten the navel - without a dispute will untie
        But in Russia, where there are several time zones, large ones are needed. And the government only speaks loudly and that’s it. And still buy Boeing and Busik.
  9. Alexey Prikazchikov
    Alexey Prikazchikov 16 November 2013 11: 50
    -5
    Another Antonovsky searchlight, in the ass ... It is necessary to cut silts and Tupolev, and not to moan hohlofilam about ana ana.
  10. sevtrash
    sevtrash 16 November 2013 12: 36
    +3
    Antonovtsev apparently retained personnel. They brought An70, An 148, but their capabilities are probably worse than Sukhoi - Poghosyan. And the Cossacks make good engines. Probably Antonovtsev would have succeeded in 218, but now, probably, the project has become outdated, at least in range.
    1. Akim
      Akim 16 November 2013 13: 38
      +2
      Quote: sevtrash
      but now, probably, the project is outdated, at least in range.

      You can adapt everything to modern requirements. But you need a solid party customer. This is not a large aviation giant, which has a margin of flexibility. Vaughn Boeing swallowed MacDouglas, and he will be bigger Antonov, but let out the same type of aircraft with him. While the Antonovites are floundering in the regional transport children's pool, the giants are not paying attention to them.
    2. vtur
      vtur 16 November 2013 14: 04
      +5
      Quote: sevtrash
      but now, probably, the project is outdated, at least in range.

      Range, passenger capacity, etc. - not an end in itself - we need an economic calculation based on long-term forecasts. The problem was different - which airlines would like to buy this plane? Production in Ukraine could affect only Ukrainian airlines that would buy 2, maximum 5 aircraft.
      Boeing and Airbus have a well-developed maintenance support structure. We also had a similar experience of selling and escorting aircraft to third world countries, but it was practically not suitable for developed countries. Everything would have to start "from scratch", and at that moment we simply did not have the appropriate specialists for this. The very certification of an aircraft according to JAR or FAR requirements is the very tip of a huge iceberg. At that time, it was necessary to promote the An-140 (at least something is better than nothing) to the international market, primarily to the countries of the "third" world and the former socialist camp, and to create a service structure. For such a large company as the An-218, the opportunity to enter the market at that time is an unreasonable dream. But, again, I will make a reservation - 20 years ago we did not realize this yet ...
      1. sevtrash
        sevtrash 16 November 2013 18: 29
        0
        Yes, this is all clear, the market is already divided. It’s impossible to get into the place of Airbus and Boeing. Can the Chinese be able to do something for their own market?
        It is simply respectful that the Antonovs brought An148, An70 under completely incomparable conditions with the same Poghosyan, not to mention the market leaders. And the planes are not bad, as if.
  11. Yankuz
    Yankuz 16 November 2013 13: 44
    +5
    When Ukraine was part of the Great USSR, its projects and plans were great, because the spirit of its nation as an important part of the Russian nation was great. And when Ukraine became in itself, independent and independent, then its spirit narrowed to the size of a couple of medium-sized Russian regions, and accordingly the projects and plans .... in general, also narrowed, blown away ... Unfortunately.
    1. Ascetic
      Ascetic 16 November 2013 13: 59
      +9
      Quote: Yankuz
      When Ukraine was part of the Great USSR, its projects and plans were great, because the spirit of its nation as an important part of the Russian nation was great.


      The point is not in the spirit of the nation, but in the fact that almost the whole country worked on such projects. There was intra-union cooperation and intra-farm relations. There was a single ministry that distributed orders. Let’s say on rocketry there was the Ministry of Environment, which included more than a hundred enterprises throughout the Union. Topol RK, for example, tied up more than 30 factories, not counting design bureaus and research institutes from Riga to Novosibirsk. And now who are the allies of ANTK? In addition to ANTK itself
  12. freedom2013
    freedom2013 16 November 2013 18: 08
    0
    To make the aircraft you need, you need to professionally study the needs of the market, and after designing and making planes for the future, everything else is a dead end. This project (worthy) is the 20th century, and we live in the 21st. I am sure we can, but only together. Apart - to Antonov’s kerdyk.
    1. vtur
      vtur 16 November 2013 19: 14
      0
      Quote: Freedom2013
      To make the aircraft you need, you need to professionally study the needs of the market, and after designing and making planes for the future, everything else is a dead end.

      You can’t argue with that. Only in real life often comes out very differently.
      Here's a quick glimpse of the failed projects of only bourgeois jet passenger trains: De Havilland "Trident", Vickers VC-10, Dassault "Mercure", Lockheed "Tristar", "Concord" ...
      1. freedom2013
        freedom2013 16 November 2013 21: 32
        0
        Whoever does nothing, he is never mistaken.
  13. clidon
    clidon 16 November 2013 19: 33
    +2
    While the countries of the former USSR embarked on the path of capitalism, not everyone was aware of the fact that the domestic market has collapsed and will eat up what remains after the collapse in 10-15 years, while the external one favors only products that have real competitiveness.
    An-218 is the last breath of post-perestroika hopes for a bright future for everyone.
    1. freedom2013
      freedom2013 16 November 2013 21: 59
      0
      clidon - no-no-no. Read the article carefully. When he was good, time passed. Materials, engines and ergonomics. (Unfortunately). But perfectly done developments, lose nizya !!!
      1. clidon
        clidon 17 November 2013 08: 44
        +3
        He was good compared to what? In the domestic market, it could be - here the IL-96, a machine that already required modernization, would compete with it. But on the foreign market, by definition, nothing was shining.
  14. Cosmos-1869
    Cosmos-1869 16 November 2013 20: 25
    +3
    Quote: Ascetic
    ... Let’s say for rocket technology there was the Ministry of Environment, which included more than a hundred enterprises throughout the Union ...

    MinTotalMash.
    MinSredMash is nuclear matters.
  15. saag
    saag 16 November 2013 22: 49
    0
    Why is there no analogue of the L-410, is there nowhere to produce it? So I could land and take off everywhere
    1. Gamdlislyam
      Gamdlislyam 17 November 2013 10: 39
      0
      Quote: saag
      Why is there no analogue of the L-410, is there nowhere to produce it? So I could land and take off everywhere

      Dear colleague saag, there are analogues (An-28/38 and Be-30/32), there is no demand. But no and no production.
      1. samoletil18
        samoletil18 18 November 2013 11: 31
        0
        Quote: Gamdlislyam
        Quote: saag
        Why is there no analogue of the L-410, is there nowhere to produce it? So I could land and take off everywhere

        Dear colleague saag, there are analogues (An-28/38 and Be-30/32), there is no demand. But no and no production.

        L-410 occupied their niche. Political interests to the detriment of their own, sort of. But during the Soviet era, aircraft factories were not without work, and the purchase of a niche aircraft in Czechoslovakia allowed us to produce other products. But the collapse of the Union is not provided.
  16. aud13
    aud13 17 November 2013 11: 41
    +1
    Demand can and should be formed at the state level.
    When, after the crisis of 2008, domestic cars stopped buying, they adopted a good program for recycling old cars. At the same time, there were fewer old cars and car factories were loaded with work almost to the maximum. It seems that if a similar program to replace old and imported aircraft were available, then if there were good aircraft, they would be sold out pretty well.
    1. clidon
      clidon 17 November 2013 12: 08
      +2
      As a result, the auto industry, one way or another, switches to the assembly of foreign cars. This is not to mention the fact that such "programs" are financed from the state budget and the money for them will have to be taken from someone. Well, it is worth mentioning that the profitability of such rather big cars cannot be extended even if all domestic carriers are forced to buy them at gunpoint. They will pay off only when the external market is involved.
  17. saag
    saag 17 November 2013 16: 50
    +2
    Well, they try to buy either Austrian or Canadian planes for regional transportation, if you raise the schedule of aeroflot flights of the times of the Soviet Union, then there’s where and where to carry, it’s all about the price, if you make a discounter, then they will fly
    1. samoletil18
      samoletil18 18 November 2013 12: 46
      0
      The Austrian will gather in Yekaterinburg. Czech turbine 51% of the shares were bought by UMMC.
  18. samoletil18
    samoletil18 17 November 2013 22: 22
    0
    Here, another old Boeing crashed in Kazan - 50 no lives. Another leasing. A new domestic one, at least tell me something, but it is more reliable than any junk, should replace this trash, and not another leased used one.
    The article immediately somehow became relevant. Gorky + to the author. I express my condolences to the families and friends of the victims.
    1. clidon
      clidon 17 November 2013 23: 04
      0
      One more ... And how much has it crashed? For all the time of operation in Russia?
    2. vtur
      vtur 18 November 2013 05: 29
      0
      Quote: samoletil18
      Here, another old Boeing crashed in Kazan

      I fundamentally disagree with such formulations. First, this Boeing 737-500 is not so old - it is 23 years old. Secondly, in world practice there are a lot of examples when the latest aircraft suffer accidents and disasters. At the same time, the percentage of accidents associated with AT failures is not so large and is not so large - much more often the notorious "human factor" plays a decisive role.
      And also, as a rule, a whole chain of events and adverse circumstances leads to disaster, and to prevent them, a huge bureaucratic system has been created in the world civil aviation and a huge number of people and organizations are involved.
      We will wait for the results of the investigation ...
      1. samoletil18
        samoletil18 18 November 2013 06: 03
        0
        Quote: vtur
        Quote: samoletil18
        Here, another old Boeing crashed in Kazan

        I fundamentally disagree with such formulations. First, this Boeing 737-500 is not so old - it is 23 years old. Secondly, in world practice there are a lot of examples when the latest aircraft suffer accidents and disasters. At the same time, the percentage of accidents associated with AT failures is not so large and is not so large - much more often the notorious "human factor" plays a decisive role.
        And also, as a rule, a whole chain of events and adverse circumstances leads to disaster, and to prevent them, a huge bureaucratic system has been created in the world civil aviation and a huge number of people and organizations are involved.
        We will wait for the results of the investigation ...

        According to the results of the investigation, the crew will definitely be guilty, otherwise there will be no insurance. And 20 years of operation from different owners, with repair after an accident in Brazil in 2001? How many similar accidents do you still need?
        1. vtur
          vtur 18 November 2013 06: 23
          0
          I am sure that the results of the investigation will be objective ...
          The problem is much deeper - why are non-Russian registration aircraft operated on domestic (and international) lines of Russia? This is the stove from which you need to start dancing. And I urge you to close the topic, which has nothing to do with An-218 ... Thank you ...
          1. samoletil18
            samoletil18 18 November 2013 12: 55
            0
            I gave an example of what happened to aviation in a country with a ruined aircraft industry. And the history of the An-218 - the history of the collapse more than the history of the aircraft. And for this collapse they pay LIVES.