Military Review

"Jeszcze Polska nie zginela". Russophobia as a result of the rejection of the imperial project

374

The incident in Warsaw shows that Poland is still a Russophobic buffer state, whose goal is a constant confrontation with Russia. Moreover, the Poles themselves do not even realize that they were simply made enemies of the fraternal Slavic people. It still began at the turn of the X-XI centuries, when a church organization was created on the territory of Poland, and the Poles began to be baptized according to the Roman rite. They made the Poles an instrument of the Vatican, then France, Great Britain and the USA intercepted the "baton", which constantly set Poland against Russia-Russia. This is the source of the millennial drama, when two great Slavic peoples were slaughtered to the joy of the leaders of the Western project. It should be noted that in recent centuries, and especially after the collapse of the USSR, two branches of the superethnos of the Russians — Great Russians and Little Russians — have been etched by a similar technology. The basis of this geopolitical technology is the programming of Russophobic, pro-Western and almost completely divorced from the common people political "elite" (nobility). Her distinctive historical features - extreme narrow-mindedness, arrogance, pride, worship of the West, hatred of Russians and irrationality.


Attack of the Embassy

11 November, Poland celebrated Independence Day with the fact that the nationalist youth attacked our diplomatic mission. Participants of the “March of Independence”, and about 50 thousand people took part in it, threw the Russian embassy with flares, burned down the police booth, outraged the Russian flag. Clashes with the police began. According to authorities, 19 people were injured, of whom 14 had to be hospitalized.

The unrest began with the fact that several dozen young people attacked the building where representatives of leftist movements lived. Clashes with the police began. Soon the riots spread to other streets, the radicals set fire to and turned over cars, garbage containers, etc. Then they got to the Russian embassy located nearby. Police to stop the attackers, had to apply force measures, including "rubber shooters" and water cannons.

The Russian Foreign Ministry demanded an official apology from the Polish authorities and compensation for the damage caused by the "excesses". Polish Ambassador Wojciech Zaionchkovsky was summoned to the carpet and expressed “strong protest” to Poland. The work of the Russian embassy was disrupted for several hours, there was a threat that hooligan elements would enter the territory of the diplomatic mission, which can be regarded as a violation of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations by the Polish authorities. In Moscow, they believe that the rampant Polish nationalists became possible because of the ineffective and untimely actions of the Polish police.

The organizers of the “Independence March” in Warsaw believe that there is no guilt in what happened and there is nothing to apologize for. The organizer of the “March of Independence” was the community of the same name, its leader Vitold Tumanovich believes that the provocateurs who attacked the marchers and were able to unleash a fight were to blame for everything. They hid in their squat (illegal premises) and threw petrol bombs from the roof. Obviously, this was a previously prepared provocation. The only mistake of the organizers is the insufficient number of guards who could not prevent the provocation. Witold Tumanovich stressed that "we would very much like to have good relations with Russia and the Russian people, although we have many things in common."

Polish President Bronislaw Komorowski apologized for the pogroms. The Polish President made a statement on the radio ZET. The head of state called what happened near the building of the Russian embassy "an absolute scandal that cannot be justified." Bronislaw Komorowski acknowledged that Russia should send an official apology on behalf of Poland. The head of state stressed that there is no justification for the actions of hooligans, and also noted that some forces want to represent Poland as a Russophobic state. The Warsaw District Court has already passed the first sentences to the pogromists.

Poland for the Poles

Polish right movements have flourished in recent years. This is a general trend for Western Europe, which does not know what to do with millions of migrants and is afraid of a surge of Islamic radicalism. In addition, Poland is still a Christian country, where demonstrations of “sexual minorities” still irritate Christians and rightists.

A special feature of Poland is the fact that it is practically a mono-ethnic state. Poles make up 96-97% of the population. Other Slavic minorities like Silesians, Kashubians, Russians, Ukrainians, Belorussians and Lemkos are close to them by blood. In modern Poland, they have no problems with integration into Polish society. Other ethnic minorities are Germans, Gypsies, Jews, Polish-Lithuanian Tatars. Such ethnic solidarity is a consequence of the historical events of the mid-20th century. The Belarusian and Ukrainian regions were incorporated into the USSR, the remaining Ukrainian population was evicted to the Ukrainian SSR. A significant German community, including in the lands that were annexed to Poland at the insistence of Moscow (the Poles should say “thank you” personally to Comrade Stalin) and have long been part of Germany (Prussia), was expelled from the country. A significant number of Polish Jews were exterminated by the Nazis. In addition, before the war, because of the pogroms, and after that, those who survived emigrated. At the same time, while the Republic of Poland was part of the socialist camp, it was isolated from the main migration flows from Africa and Asia. And after the collapse of the socialist camp, Poland is unattractive for migrants. First, Poland is removed from the main migration routes. Secondly, the degradation of the economy created in the years of socialism of the economy and social sphere makes it unattractive in the eyes of immigrants in comparison with other countries of the European Union. Those migrants who travel through Poland prefer not to linger there. And the Poles themselves became migrant workers in the more developed countries of Western Europe. Poland has not remained aloof from the pan-European trend - a decline in the birth rate. Due to the emigration of Poles to Western European countries in search of work and a drop in the birth rate in recent years, the population of Poland is gradually decreasing.

Thus, while Polish identity does not threaten anything, interethnic clashes for the Polish state are rare. On the other hand, nationalism in Poland has another source, and a very abundant one. Poland is the core of the former Eastern European empire, the Commonwealth. It included the vast areas of the modern Baltic States, Belarus, Ukraine and Russia. At the time of its heyday, Poland even managed to plant its prince in Moscow, and there was a chance that a huge Slavic empire would be created with its capital in Warsaw. Polish nationalism has always had not only anti-Russian, but anti-German and anti-Semitic character. This was due to the confrontation with the German knights, who occupied a large part of the West Slavic lands. And by the confrontation with Russia, taking advantage of the fragmentation of the Russian state, the Poles seized vast territories and gained even more when they unified with the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and Russian. The hatred of the Jews was caused by their significant influx into Poland, when the Jews were expelled and fled from other European states. The inclination of a part of Jewry in usury-trading activity with the enslavement of the population caused a social protest. In addition, many nobles, who had nothing but a sword and noble arrogance, were not averse to profit at the expense of the property of outsiders.

The national movement has a rich history. The struggle for independence, after three sections of the Commonwealth between Russia, Austria and Prussia. Here it is necessary to note the secret war of the Western powers against Russia, primarily France and England, which supported the Poles. In Austria and Prussia, where the German authorities pursued a tougher policy towards the Poles, this movement did not have much influence. In Russia, the liberal policies of Alexander I (who created the Kingdom of Poland) and Alexander II led to the uprisings of 1830-1831. and 1863. Many in modern Poland with a kind word recall the right-wing movements of 1920-1930. like the radical nationalist Phalanx. Even Poles of left-wing beliefs respect the nationalist party KNP (Confederation of Independent Poland), which fought against the communist regime of the Polish People’s Republic.

In view of such a rich heritage, nationalism and Russophobia are the norm for Polish politics. The Right parties include the “Law and Justice” of the Kaczynski brothers. As the mayor of Warsaw, the late Lech Kaczynski forbade gay parades. The basis of his presidential campaign was “moral renewal” and a return to “Christian values”. As president, Kaczynski held a pro-Georgian stance and blamed Russia for aggression against Georgia in 2008. The right-wing parties include the “Self-defense of the Republic of Poland” party, which was headed by the former vice-speaker of the Sejm and Deputy Prime Minister Andrzej Lepper (he died under mysterious circumstances in 2011 year). I must say that Lepper, unlike many of his compatriots, advocated friendly relations with Belarus and Russia. Another Polish pro-Catholic right-wing party is the League of Polish Families. She in 2000-s enjoyed great popularity, but then lost votes.

A more radical wing is the small ultra-right nationalist political party, the National Renaissance of Poland. Part of its activists and made up a squad of rioters who attacked the Russian embassy. This party opposes euthanasia and abortion, same-sex marriage and the permission of LGBT people, which makes it related to other rights. However, it differs in that it advocates the prohibition of any types of socialism and liberalism. Moreover, the CWP is recognized as an anti-Semitic and racist organization. Liberals, communists, “multiculturalists”, homosexuals, Muslims, Russians, Jews and Gypsies have been declared the enemies of the party and the Polish nation. NVP activists themselves consider themselves to be the successors of the Phalanx. Previously, the activists of NVP were classic skinheads, now their core is football fans.

The larger ultra-right movement is the “National Movement that organized the“ Independence March ”. The “National Movement” is a bloc of several organizations in which there are two wings. The first is the wing of the national-conservative, moderate, with the core in the form of the youth movement "All-Polish Youth." Figures of this organization often appear on TV, are part of public Polish politics. The second wing is a radical one, advocating a new national revolution. Moreover, both parts of the ND are in favor of creating an authoritarian Polish Republic, in the style of that which was under Pilsudski. The ND Offensive program - not only defend, but also fight against tolerance, multiculturalism, liberalism, communism, foreign influence, etc. A special feature of the “National Movement” is the combination of social justice requirements (“supporting Polish families”) with liberal economic principles and ideas free market. A revolutionary gets on with conservative rhetoric (no abortion, gay propaganda, migrants, etc.).

Russophobia

The attack on the embassy is not the only negative signal that broadcasts Poland to Russia. In 2012, the day of the Euro-2012 quarterfinal match between the national teams of Russia and Poland in the Polish capital, small groups of Polish hooligans attacked Russian tourists. Police detained a total of 190 people. Already in the summer of 2013, the investigating authorities reported that the attack was not spontaneous, the instigators organized the arrival of football hooligans from all over the country to Warsaw, and set a goal for them - beating the fans of the Russian national team. In addition, the instigators gave advice on how to start a fight, informed hooligans about the whereabouts of the Russians, and also conducted a course of legal literacy, explained how to behave with the police in the event of detention. They are accused of inciting ethnic hatred and promoting violence.

News about the desecration of memorials and graves of Soviet soldiers who liberated Poland from the Nazis, is already an everyday occurrence. But in this area, Poland was able to surprise. On October 12, 2013, a sculpture of the “Soviet rapist soldier” was installed in Gdansk. The sculpture, which consists of figures of a man and a woman in human height, is a scene of violence. A Soviet soldier holds a lying pregnant woman with one hand by the hair, with the other points the gun barrel into her mouth. The author stated that this sculpture restores historical truth and is dedicated to the fate of women in wartime. The double abomination of the sculpture is that it was installed in the Victory Alley with a tank T-34, created in memory of the dead Soviet soldiers who liberated the city from the Nazis. Let me remind you that the USSR lost 600 thousand people during the liberation of Poland. Due to the great resonance, the sculpture was quickly removed, but the information effect has already been obtained.

Russophobes do not care about their own history. They do not remember that the USSR liberated Poland from German occupation. Forgotten that it was Stalin who persuaded Churchill and Roosevelt to give Danzig, half of East Prussia and other territories of Poland. Forgot that in 1945-1991. Moscow practically “cleaned up” the history of Russian-Polish relations, trying to remove all negative things, and where it didn’t work out, all the blame was laid on the Russian autocracy and on Polish feudal lords. In the USSR, they actively promoted Polish culture. They supported the Polish economy at the expense of the Union, even when Warsaw took out loans in the West, Moscow did not abandon it. And after that, Warsaw in the 1991 year immediately made a lot of complaints. Russian (Soviet) immediately proved guilty of all sins - from the division of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (almost no mention of the Austrians and Prussians) and the suppression of the Polish uprisings to the Soviet-Polish war of 1920-1921. (as if it was not the Poles who first launched the offensive and seized the Ukrainian and Belarusian lands), Katyn and the Warsaw Uprising. Although the Polish nationalists had to say "thank you" to democratic Russia, which "abolished" the Soviet Union. After all, the Russian democrats did what the Polish russophobes dreamed of - they destroyed the Red Empire.

The source of this Russophobia is the impaired imperial consciousness of the Poles. The Poles can not forget that they belonged to the "Eastern Lands" (Gangways). Having seized the lands of the Old Russian state in the Middle Ages, including Minsk, Smolensk, Kiev and Chernigov, the Poles created a huge empire. At the peak of power, Poland laid claim to Pskov, Novgorod the Great, and even Moscow. However, the Poles were unable to create a stable centralized management system and began to suppress the national and cultural identity of the Eastern Slavs, which destroyed their power. The Polish gentry could not and did not want to develop the empire and missed the chance to head the huge Slavic empire. Now there is no empire, but ungrounded ambitions remain. The Poles are ready to blame anyone for their troubles - Russians, Germans, Jews, but not themselves.

Geopolitical aspect

Poland is a springboard of aggression against Russia. After the collapse of the socialist bloc and the Warsaw Pact, Poland was the first to provide its capabilities to strengthen the NATO military presence near the borders of Russia. When Washington made another negative report on the situation in Russia, Warsaw was one of the first to support the Americans. Whenever we talked about full-scale cooperation between Russia and the EU, Poland put its marks on the wheels. Poland was a conductor of American influence in the European Union. Poland has never opposed the policies of Washington, supporting all the aggressive campaigns of the United States.

In recent years, when most of the EU countries are reducing their offensive potential - the number of armed forces, the number of strike aircraft, helicopters, ships, armored vehicles, guns - Poland, on the contrary, is increasing its military potential. Of course, the armament of Poland is slowing down with its small economic opportunities, but the fact is obvious.

At the same time, Poland, like Romania, is another buffer state that actively cooperates with the United States in creating a global missile defense system. It is obvious that the United States wants to preserve the military potential of Poland, which will provide auxiliary contingent in the event of a conflict with Russia.
Author:
374 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. saag
    saag 14 November 2013 08: 45
    52
    And when were the Poles brothers ???
    1. Igor39
      Igor39 14 November 2013 08: 50
      30
      The reproach of the ignorant, the reproach of people
      High souls are not sad;
      Let the waves of the seas make a noise
      A granite cliff will not tumble ...
      M.U. Lermontov
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 14 November 2013 09: 01
        55
        "This is the origin of a thousand-year drama, when two great Slavic peoples slaughtered for the joy of the leaders of the Western project."

        I'm afraid there is no real opportunity to change anything without global shocks such as the global flood, the fall of an asteroid or an alien attack, even in the new world war, the Poles will be clearly against us. request
        1. Canep
          Canep 14 November 2013 12: 45
          +4
          NEWS! ! !


          The Polish Embassy in Moscow was bombarded with smoke bombs and fires. As noted on Wednesday, November 13, in a statement by the press service of the unregistered opposition party Other Russia, it was a “protest rally against pogroms staged by Polish nationalists” in Warsaw, near the Russian embassy.
          Four protesters, including the operator, were detained.



          source: http://inotv.rt.com/2013-11-14/Posolstvo-Polshi-v-Moskve-zakidali

          As I expected, the answer was not long in coming. The truth is now apologize to Putin's turn.
          1. Karlsonn
            Karlsonn 14 November 2013 15: 44
            +5
            off top

            from the series "Capitalism Today"

            1. vezunchik
              vezunchik 14 November 2013 15: 58
              -19 qualifying.
              And we have wrong ????
              1. Karlsonn
                Karlsonn 14 November 2013 17: 06
                13
                Quote: vezunchik
                And we have wrong ????


                During dispersal, not only water cannons, rubber bullets and tear gas were used, but also military weapons; remind me when was the last time we dispersed rallies and demonstrations?
                1. helg717
                  helg717 14 November 2013 22: 10
                  +2
                  Remarque: legal analysis of the actions of law enforcement forces when working with a crowd - the most disciplined (read humane) - BELARUSIANS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                  1. Karlsonn
                    Karlsonn 15 November 2013 01: 21
                    +2
                    Quote: helg717
                    Remarque: legal analysis of the actions of law enforcement forces when working with a crowd - the most disciplined (read humane) - BELARUSIANS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


                    I know, I'm sitting and thinking:
                    - maybe the Belarusian ghouls go bloody what
              2. catapractic
                catapractic 16 November 2013 01: 23
                0
                and you have it with someone, where do you live, in Burma or Bangladesh, or maybe in Africa ... well, then I sympathize.
            2. Yarosvet
              Yarosvet 14 November 2013 16: 09
              +7
              Quote: Karlsonn
              from the series "Capitalism Today"
              1. Karlsonn
                Karlsonn 14 November 2013 17: 07
                +5
                And it will be even worse. sad
          2. Sirocco
            Sirocco 15 November 2013 01: 10
            0
            Quote: Canep
            As I expected, the answer was not long in coming

            An interesting tendency has been taking place recently: sometimes our diplomats are beaten, or embassies are set on fire in democratic Europe. What's next to wait? We need to do something about this, otherwise we will soon be throwing shells and missiles at each other rather than throwing fires at each other, to please "partners" from overseas. PANA fight, and at halopov forelocks crack.
            1. densh
              densh 15 November 2013 01: 17
              +1
              This, it would seem, happened during the time of the Union with our diplomats. Moreover, a symmetrical answer followed - they put a bruise under the same eye as ours. yes
              1. Karlsonn
                Karlsonn 15 November 2013 01: 56
                0
                Quote: densh
                This, it seems, also happened during the Union with our diplomats.


                I'll tell you the scary:
                - in the 1920's they started killing our diplomatic couriers, those who carried the diplomatic post, the White Guards like Savenkova were different, the Chekists just started to cut the counter am and here all the secret services are ofigel bully , the KGB could end anyone and everywhere, but after the KGB they took the opportunity to block and destroy units up to 20 000 sabers or land troops and carry out operations to destroy the basmachi in almost 1 000 sabers; the KGB Glory began with this good drinks hi
                If anyone touched the Soviet embassy, ​​in the best case he throws his acquaintances into a sweat when recalling this.
                This is the Yankees who set tanks around their embassies - our armored vehicles were unnecessary. bully



        2. Shur
          Shur 16 November 2013 23: 14
          0
          Change is necessary, to prevent conflicts. Then they will simply be unnecessary to the owners and simply dissolve in the green wave from the europope. The best will remain for liberation from greening. The same thing will have to wash away Catholicism and fratricide.
      2. Polovec
        Polovec 14 November 2013 10: 59
        35
        A humanitarian organization "Psychiatrists Without Borders" should be sent to Poland. It's just an enclave of Dr. Freud's patients! Especially in the east of the country. I lived in Poland for five years (in the west) and there have never been any conflicts. But in Warsaw and Krakow there has always been a concentration of rot. Although if it were not for the Russians, the Poles would be present on the planet only in the form of soap!
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 14 November 2013 12: 58
          15
          Quote: Polovec
          A humanitarian organization "Psychiatrists Without Borders" should be sent to Poland. It's just an enclave of Dr. Freud's patients!


          Poles have always been strange fool .
          1. Fox
            Fox 14 November 2013 14: 34
            12
            This is from the same "opera" as the "Red Army man raping a pregnant Polish woman."
            They have such art!
            What do they smoke?
            1. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 14 November 2013 15: 28
              19
              Quote: Liss
              This is from the same "opera" as the "Red Army man raping a pregnant Polish woman."
              They have such art!
              What do they smoke?


              Yes, they don’t even need to smoke, they have been brainwashed since 1385 of the year - the result is obvious. request

              Poles are played wassat
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 14 November 2013 15: 33
                +1
                Urra-ah-ah-ah ... !!!!!!!

                Ittenbalas.
                1. Karlsonn
                  Karlsonn 14 November 2013 17: 11
                  +3
                  Quote: Spade
                  Ittenbalas


                  What kind of beast is Ittenbalas?

                  all in thought
                  1. catapractic
                    catapractic 16 November 2013 10: 46
                    +1
                    Apparently this is a Polish gentry, except for arrogance and show-offs, there is nothing.
                2. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 20: 07
                  +4
                  Quote: Spade
                  Ittenbalas.

                  Hmm ... is this an attempt to express your emotions in Kazakh? )))
                  "Ittyn balasy" - "son of a bitch" in Kazakh)))
                  Or what is it?)
                  1. Karlsonn
                    Karlsonn 14 November 2013 20: 11
                    0
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    Hmm ... is this an attempt to express your emotions in Kazakh? )))
                    "Ittyn balasy" - "son of a bitch" in Kazakh)))


                    belay belay what
                  2. alone
                    alone 14 November 2013 21: 06
                    +4
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    "Ittyn balasy" - "son of a bitch" in Kazakh)))


                    and we call it so "itin balasy" - laughing
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 14 November 2013 21: 14
                      +3
                      Quote: lonely
                      and we call it so "itin balasy"

                      I'm glad many understood
                      1. Karlsonn
                        Karlsonn 14 November 2013 21: 19
                        +1
                        Quote: Spade
                        I'm glad many understood


                        Obviously everything except me, I didn’t understand anything ... crying
                    2. SSR
                      SSR 14 November 2013 22: 31
                      0
                      "Dog child", not like a son or a kyzy
                      1. Karlsonn
                        Karlsonn 15 November 2013 01: 58
                        +1
                        Quote: SSR
                        "Dog child", not like a son or a kyzy


                        climbs into the bunker and puts on a helmet made of lead
                      2. Marek Rozny
                        Marek Rozny 15 November 2013 22: 40
                        +1
                        Quote: SSR
                        "Dog child", not like a son or a kyzy


                        "Dog child" is an incorrect translation into Russian, because it is literal. The word "it" here means a female dog (not a male), and under the word "bala" it means "a son", and not just a "child of an unknown sex." For example, in relation to a woman, this phrase does not apply, but only to males.
                        "Kanshygyn ulysy" - they don't say that. They say exactly "ittyn balasy".
            2. Shur
              Shur 16 November 2013 23: 23
              -1
              The Germans were apparently culturally "given", the Aryans after all. So the maiden was already pregnant. What a very self-deprecating people, those who really bend them love, and the brothers are killed. And it's true that the gentry are their root of evil. Foolish tsar, not to grind the corners, but to quietly mow the gentry and clean up its smell it was necessary. The communists are generally clowns, that the union is a national confederation of papers, that Poland is just an ally. The borders of a single country on a national basis are idiocy and a time bomb. She jerked and still smolders. If to be completely correct, then why not proclaim the GDP of the Russian Republic, eh? Where is he doing the RSFSR? All natsmans have, but Russians are in fact a myth?
          2. iConst
            iConst 14 November 2013 15: 33
            +3
            As I understand it - the glorification of the courage of the Polish cavalry.
            It is unclear which tanks the artist depicted. Surrendering crew in German helmets.
            1. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 14 November 2013 17: 16
              +9
              Quote: iConst
              It is unclear which tanks the artist depicted. Surrendering crew in German helmets.


              Painting - "The victory of the Polish cavalry over German tanks" No. 2
              (here the cavalrymen in helmets),

              clickable.

              CAPACITY: here the model of tanks is even more mysterious. wink
              1. Cat
                Cat 14 November 2013 17: 29
                12
                Quote: Karlsonn
                Quote: iConst
                It is unclear which tanks the artist depicted. Surrendering crew in German helmets.


                Painting - "The victory of the Polish cavalry over German tanks" No. 2
                (here the cavalrymen in helmets),

                clickable.

                CAPACITY: here the model of tanks is even more mysterious. wink

                along the way, these are secret SS anti-aircraft tanks - the leftmost one is clearly pounding on planes, that is, on floppy battle eagles under the control of heroic Polish aviators. The Polish army, this is not for you khukh-mukhras, there the interaction of clans is organized in the best possible way - and only the size of the picture did not allow the artist to fully convey this ...

                PS: and the fact that such tanks are unknown in our country, they didn’t manage to get to the territory of the USSR, the Polish cavalry knocked them all out ... and annoyed by such disgrace, Hitler immediately ordered the unsuccessful model to be discontinued.
                1. Karlsonn
                  Karlsonn 14 November 2013 19: 35
                  +4
                  Quote: Cat
                  PS: and the fact that such tanks are unknown in our country, they didn’t manage to get to the territory of the USSR, the Polish cavalry knocked them all out ... and annoyed by such disgrace, Hitler immediately ordered the unsuccessful model to be discontinued.


                  In my purely personal view on the picture №2 tanks what these are secret German lunar rovers.
                  But in picture number 1 these are mutated Churchillies with towers from Matilda, obviously the artist Kossak has already seen how the tanks look and redrawn his picture and it turned out like this:

                  clickable
                  1. Ascetic
                    Ascetic 15 November 2013 02: 19
                    +5
                    Pictures class! In delirium, it’s difficult to come up with such a thing.
                    1. catapractic
                      catapractic 16 November 2013 10: 48
                      +3
                      you don’t understand - you don’t see right away laughing
                2. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 20: 14
                  13
                  Quote: Cat
                  and the fact that such tanks are unknown in our country, they didn’t have time to reach the territory of the USSR, the Polish cavalry knocked them all out

                  There is one more suggestion why they did not reach the USSR.

                  Polish-Belarusian border. There are wagons, cars for several hours. The Polish customs officer lazily and leisurely checks the cars. Summer, heat, stuffy. Everyone was already tired of waiting for their turn. Then one motorist approaches the customs officer and says:
                  - Pan customs officer has been working here for a long time?
                  - Yes, for a long time.
                  “Does pan customs know when Germany invaded Poland?”
                  - Uh, well, they still know ... In 1939.
                  - And in what year did the Germans attack the USSR?
                  - In 1941 ...
                  - As I understand it, the Germans stayed for two years with a customs officer ...
              2. Anat1974
                Anat1974 14 November 2013 20: 29
                +2
                There are not only cavalrymen, but also German tanks (or is it still a UFO?) In helmets. Indeed, what are they smoking in the Commonwealth?
              3. alone
                alone 14 November 2013 21: 07
                +1
                belay the Wehrmacht didn’t have such tanks. Can the Poles attack the tank units of imperial Japan? wassat
              4. iConst
                iConst 15 November 2013 14: 44
                +1
                Quote: Karlsonn
                CAPACITY: here the model of tanks is even more mysterious.


                Yeah. With all due respect to national patriotism - it looks like a parody. To her!
          3. helg717
            helg717 14 November 2013 22: 13
            +3
            in 1987 year, on the eve of February 23, in Grodno, at a class hour, as a guest from CA, I gave this example
            they were not funny
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 14 November 2013 22: 28
              +2
              Kids on Folyush brainwashed?
              1. rudolff
                rudolff 14 November 2013 22: 43
                +3
                God, what a cramped world! I also lived in Folush in Grodno in the 80s, my father was a military man. From there, he was drafted into the army. good
                1. Karlsonn
                  Karlsonn 15 November 2013 02: 04
                  0
                  Quote: helg717
                  in 1987 year, on the eve of February 23, in Grodno, at a class hour, as a guest from CA, I gave this example


                  Quote: Spade
                  Kids on Folyush brainwashed?


                  Quote: rudolff
                  God, what a cramped world! I also lived in the 80's on Folyush in Grodno, the military father was


                  Cool to you proudly paces
                  and we, albeit in the Far East, got into the SKA complex good - just a fairy tale. bully drinks

                  [img] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-jza3mQACM [/ img]
          4. Ruslandeth
            Ruslandeth 15 November 2013 01: 50
            +2
            the black myth of the frenzied Polish cavalry, created at the suggestion of Guderian, debunked by Isaev.

            In fact, everything was not so - the Poles in horse ranks attacked the German infantry battalion that was at a halt, only tanks missed behind the neighboring forest. Koi approached a little later and stabbed the brave Poles, who suffered heavy losses - they quickly piled out of there. Chopping "Krupp's armor" with checkers - even the Poles didn't have enough idiocy for that
          5. Ascetic
            Ascetic 15 November 2013 02: 01
            +3
            Quote: Karlsonn
            Poles have always been strange


            The letter m in the last layer could be deleted? So itchy hands what
          6. Dovmont
            Dovmont 15 November 2013 15: 56
            +3
            In the picture, the battle of Westerplatte, I suppose. Although our great Marshal Tymoshenko in 1942 near Kharkov also threw cavalry units at German tanks, a whole cavalry division was destroyed with minimal losses from the enemy. So there were enough idiots in our guide.
            1. iConst
              iConst 15 November 2013 16: 31
              0
              Quote: Dovmont
              Although our great Marshal Tymoshenko in 1942 near Kharkov also threw cavalry units at German tanks, a whole cavalry division was destroyed with minimal losses from the enemy. So there were enough idiots in our guide.

              You can’t be so frantic. Tymoshenko was a rather talented military leader.
              It should be borne in mind that even talented people became hostages of all kinds of directives and directions from above. After all, Otteda is always more visible!

              It was Stalin who at that moment instilled his idea that after the winter 41/42 counterattack near Moscow, the German was weak, demoralized and needed a little push - and he would roll back.
              Then Soso was already more careful.

              And as it really was there - Tymoshenko commanded the front - and decisions were made by headquarters.

              Who is to blame is extremely difficult to establish. This is usually a chain of events. Crap could start with intelligence.
              1. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker 16 November 2013 16: 28
                +3
                Quote: iConst
                It was Stalin who at that moment instilled his idea that after the winter 41/42 counterattack near Moscow, the German was weak, demoralized and needed a little push - and he would roll back.

                But do not remember WHO exactly INSURED in the ears of the commander-in-chief, that the Germans suffered monstrous losses, that near Moscow they were defeated "to smithereens"?
              2. Shur
                Shur 16 November 2013 23: 34
                0
                The mess began with a "strategist" in the Kremlin.
            2. Bakht
              Bakht 16 November 2013 13: 21
              +3
              You can speak as you write, you can do anything. And the picture shows not the battle at Vesteplatte. And Tymoshenko did not throw cavalry divisions on tanks. If it does not make it difficult - a reference to Tymoshenko's "idiocy", please.

              Cavalry was actively used in the Second World War. And quite successfully. For example cav. divisions ensured the success of the environment of Paulus. The whole cavalry division perished on Myshkov. But she was able to detain Rauss’s tank division for two days. Were it not for this suicidal battle of cavalry against tanks, the Germans would have broken through the encirclement near Stalingrad.

              And KMG (Horse-Mechanized Groups) were successfully used by the Red Army until the 45th year. It seems they were 2. You just need to refresh the sources.

              So it is unlikely that Tymoshenko was an "idiot".
            3. Bakht
              Bakht 16 November 2013 13: 34
              +1
              Who knocked on Krupp's armor

              The protagonist of the episode mentioned by Guderian (which went down in history as a battle near Kroyants) was the Polish 18th Pomeranian Lancer Regiment.
              -------
              On August 22, 1939, the regiment received an order for mobilization, which ended less than a week before the war, on August 25. After the mobilization, the regiment consisted of 35 officers, more than 800 podofitsers and privates, 850 horses, two 37-mm Bofors anti-tank guns (there should have been twice as many of them in the state), twelve 7,92-mm PTR Maroshek arr. 1935, twelve easel machine guns and eighteen light machine guns. The novelties of the century of the “war of engines” were 2 motorcycles with wheelchairs and 2 radio stations. Soon, the regiment was strengthened by the battery of the 11th horse-artillery division. The battery consisted of 180 artillerymen, 248 horses, four 75 mm cannons with an ammunition load of 1440 rounds and two heavy machine guns.
              -------
              A maneuvering detachment (1st and 2nd squadrons and two platoons of the 3rd and 4th squadrons) was allocated for counterattack, it was to reach the rear of the German infantry by 19.00, attack it, and then retreat to the line of fortifications in the area Rytel, occupied by Polish infantry.
              However, a workaround led to unexpected results for both sides. The head outpost of the detachment discovered a battalion of German infantry, located on a halt at 300 – 400 m from the edge of the forest. The Poles decided to attack this enemy on horseback, using the effect of surprise. According to the old command “szable dlon!” (Sabers!), The Lancers quickly and harmoniously exposed their blades, shining in the red rays of the setting sun. The commander of the 18 regiment, Colonel Mastalezh, participated in the attack. Obeying the trumpet signal, the lancers swiftly rushed towards the enemy. The calculation of the surprise of the attack turned out to be true: the Germans who did not expect the attack rushed in a panic all over the field. Cavalry mercilessly chopped running infantrymen with sabers.
              Interrupted the triumph of the cavalry hitherto hidden in the forest armored vehicles. Having left behind the trees, these armored vehicles opened machine-gun fire. In addition to the armored car, one gun of the Germans also opened fire. Now the Poles swept across the field under deadly fire.
              Having suffered heavy losses, the cavalrymen retreated beyond the nearest wooded ridge, where barely half of the horsemen participating in the attack gathered. However, the losses in the cavalry attack were much less than you could imagine from the description of the battle. Three officers were killed (including the commander of the regiment, Colonel Mastalezh) and 23 Lancer, one officer and about 50 Lancer were seriously wounded. Most of the casualties of the 18 Uhlan Regiment during the 1 of September 1939, which accounted for up to 60% of people, seven machine guns, two anti-tank guns, the regiment suffered in combined arms defensive combat. Guderian’s words, in this case, have nothing to do with reality. The Polish cavalrymen did not attack the tanks, but themselves were attacked by armored vehicles in the process of cutting a gaping battalion. In a similar situation, ordinary infantry or dismounted cavalry would have suffered quite comparable losses. Moreover, the situation with flank shelling from a gun could become piquant for a tank platoon that had left for the field. The story of chopping Krupp's armor turns out to be fiction from beginning to end.


              militera.lib.ru/research/isaev_av2/05.html
      3. mirag2
        mirag2 14 November 2013 11: 00
        +2
        How would the Jews cry if this happened to their embassy?
        Why are we silent?
        1. ale-x
          ale-x 14 November 2013 14: 16
          10
          So not Jews))))
    2. Vadivak
      Vadivak 14 November 2013 08: 55
      34
      Quote: saag
      And when were the Poles brothers ???


      Hitler occupied the Czech Republic by the shameful "Munich Agreement", but Poland, as Churchill said, "with the greed of a hyena took part in the plunder and destruction of the Czechoslovak state." And it turns out that it was the Poles who started the Second World War with the capture of Czechoslovakia in 1938, actually taking away a piece of it from Hitler. And judging by the statements they remember Hitler with gratitude

      We (Poland) could find a place on the side of the Reich almost the same as Italy and, for sure, better than Hungary or Romania. As a result, we would be in Moscow, where Adolf Hitler, together with Rydz-Smigly, would host a parade of victorious Polish-German troops "(Polish professor Pavel Vechorkevich).
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 14 November 2013 09: 04
        16
        Quote: Vadivak
        We (Poland) could find a place on the side of the Reich almost the same as Italy and, for sure, better than Hungary or Romania. As a result, we would be in Moscow, where Adolf Hitler, together with Rydz-Smigly, would host a parade of victorious Polish-German troops "(Polish professor Pavel Vechorkevich).

        Considering that it took Germany two weeks to trample Poland, Hitler did not need such "stoic heroes". And who the Poles were in the eyes of the Germans, so meat that was not considered a people.
        Now, by the way, we also have many such professors, a list of names in the article Speak, don't speak hi
        1. Vadivak
          Vadivak 14 November 2013 09: 18
          23
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          that would trample Poland, such "stoic heroes" Hitler did not need.


          Hitler served all the scum and this would not hurt if you read it

          September 29, 1938. Polish diplomats in London and Paris insist on "an equal approach to solving the Sudeten and Cieszyn problems," the Polish and German military agree on a line of demarcation of troops in the event of an invasion of Czechoslovakia. In Polish newspapers, touching scenes of "fighting brotherhood" between German fascists and Polish nationalists are described. A Czechoslovak border post near Grgava was attacked by a gang of 20 people armed with automatic weapons. The attack was repulsed, the attackers fled to Poland, and one of them, being wounded, was captured. During interrogation, the captured bandit said that there were many Germans living in Poland in their unit.

          Poland became the first state to conclude a non-aggression pact with Nazi Germany. It was signed on January 26, 1934 in Berlin for a period of 10 years (five years later, a similar Soviet-German pact reproduced this rule of the Polish-German treaty). Poland secured a quiet western rear in case of war with the Soviet Union. Since 1921, Poland had an agreement with Romania on mutual assistance in the war against the Bolsheviks. These treaties can be interpreted as purely defensive, just forgetting that back in 1919-1920 the Polish ruling circles proclaimed their goal to restore the Commonwealth within the borders of 1772 and conquer the corridor to the Black Sea ("Poland from sea to sea")

          Hitler and his entourage in every possible way encouraged in the Poles plans for joint intervention against the Soviet Union in 1934–1939. they were repeatedly considered in the higher spheres of Berlin and Warsaw. Hitler himself said in January 1939 that "every Polish division in conflict with the USSR will save one German division."
          On January 26, 1934, a Polish-German non-aggression pact was signed for a period of 10 years. The Polish ambassador to Berlin, Jozef Lipsky, said to the French correspondent: "From now on, Poland does not need France." “We are delighted with our first agreements with Hitler,” said the head of the Polish state, Pilsudski, to French Foreign Minister Louis Bart in the spring of 1934. From 1934 to 1939, strategic partnership with the Nazis was the core of Poland's foreign policy.
          1. Karlsonn
            Karlsonn 14 November 2013 13: 03
            +9
            Quote: Vadivak
            Hitler served all the scum


            There is such a thing.
            1. moskov1
              moskov1 14 November 2013 16: 09
              -18 qualifying.
              To the surprise of almost the whole world, the Soviet Union and Germany announced on the morning of August 24, 1939 that they had concluded a non-aggression pact, but the secret supplementary protocol signed the night before was not published. In it, in particular, it was said: "In the case of a territorial and political reorganization of the regions that make up the Polish state, the border of the spheres of interest of Germany and the USSR will approximately pass along the rivers Pissa, Narew, Vistula and San."
              1. Djozz
                Djozz 14 November 2013 17: 12
                +6
                Please "script" the secret protocol to the studio!
                1. Karlsonn
                  Karlsonn 14 November 2013 20: 13
                  +3
                  Quote: Djozz
                  Please "script" the secret protocol to the studio!


                  And where to get it if it is not in nature?
                  They say the Americans have some fragments of a copy from a copy of some protocol --- for sim everything request, there is no more evidence of such a piece of paper.
                2. iConst
                  iConst 15 November 2013 16: 35
                  +1
                  Quote: Djozz
                  Please "script" the secret protocol to the studio!

                  Chichas something! He is secret! laughing
              2. Karlsonn
                Karlsonn 14 November 2013 17: 22
                12
                Quote: moskov1
                To the surprise of almost the whole world, the Soviet Union and Germany announced on the morning of August 24 1939


                What is this for?
                To the fact that the bloody Stalin restored the territorial integrity of Ukraine and Belarus?

                This really can not be forgiven the bloody tyrant! bully
                If the banderlogs come to power, they will have to get rid of the difficult legacy of the bloody past and return Western Ukraine to Poland, and Crimea to Russia! wassat
                1. Shur
                  Shur 16 November 2013 23: 41
                  0
                  So the Poles will take VUKRAINE. She is now not very stale. What will they do with her? Now they themselves are "slaves for Europe".
        2. Ihrek
          Ihrek 14 November 2013 09: 28
          +8
          Along the way, in the eyes of the Germans, everyone was subhuman then, except naturally themselves.
        3. Dazdranagon
          Dazdranagon 14 November 2013 09: 29
          18
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          two weeks to trample Poland

          - and then because 12 days they were looking for her on the map! laughing
          1. Karlsonn
            Karlsonn 14 November 2013 13: 13
            +8
            Quote: Dazdranagon
            - and then because 12 days they were looking for her on the map!


            I recommend reading the book by the adjutant of Polish General Vladislav Anders Jerzy Klimkowski, which in the author's edition had the title "I was the adjutant of General Anders", we published it in 2011 under the title "The Most Vile of the Vile".

            http://www.ymuhin.ru/node/975/gnusneishie-iz-gnusnykh-chastx-1 - цинк,
            http://www.ymuhin.ru/node/976/gnusneishie-iz-gnusnykh-chastx-2 - цинк (полностью здесь),
            You can either buy the book http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/5728950/ or download http://lib.rus.ec/b/267051. hi

            CAPACITIES: the name of the book published here appeals to Churchill's statement about Poland:

            “... The heroic character traits of the Polish people,” Churchill wrote, “should not force us to close our eyes to his recklessness and ingratitude, which for a number of centuries have caused him immeasurable suffering ... It should be considered a secret and tragedy of European history that a people capable of any heroism, some of which are talented, valiant, charming, constantly exhibits such enormous shortcomings in almost all aspects of their state life. Glory in times of rebellion and grief; vileness and shame in times of triumph. The bravest of the brave too often were led by the most vile of the vile! nevertheless, there have always been two Poland: one of them fought for the truth, and the other crawled in meanness " .
        4. Vladimirets
          Vladimirets 14 November 2013 09: 34
          +6
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Considering that it took Germany two weeks to trample Poland, Hitler did not need such "stoic heroes".

          Alexander, hi the Poles are still far from the Romanians - allies of the Reich, right
          Quote: Vadivak
          Hitler served all the scum and this would not hurt

          Poland's problem was that it was too close to Germany, with which there were always territorial graters.
          1. smile
            smile 14 November 2013 13: 43
            16
            Vladimirets
            Hello.
            In my opinion, the problem of Poland was that it had territorial claims against all neighbors, without exception.
            The problem is that its main goal was to capture and enslave half (in the 20th century, appetites still restrained Russia), and this even excluded the idea of ​​cooperation with us, albeit for self-preservation.
            And finally, the problem is that Polska Uber Alles thundered too loudly in their empty heads. In fact, the psychology of the Polish leadership did not differ much from the psychology of the leaders of the 3rd Reich, and the aspirations and methods were the same. But their inherent arrogance so clouded their minds that they managed to raise their tail to Hitler, who they considered to be an ally.
            But the main problem is "God did not give horns to the vigorous cow." :)))
            1. Corsair
              Corsair 14 November 2013 13: 53
              +7
              Quote: smile
              In my opinion, the problem of Poland was that it had territorial claims against all neighbors, without exception.

              Quote: smile
              But their inherent arrogance so clouded their minds that they managed to raise their tail to Hitler, who they considered to be an ally.
              But the main problem is "God did not give horns to the vigorous cow." :)))

              An accurate statement of the facts, with the only addition that the interests of Poland were not limited to borderline, purely tactical claims against neighbors.
              The Poles firmly "stuck" in their head the idea of ​​"Wielka Polska from Mozha to Mozha ..."
            2. Vladimirets
              Vladimirets 14 November 2013 13: 54
              +3
              Quote: smile
              Vladimirets
              Hello.

              hi
              Quote: smile
              In my opinion, the problem of Poland was that it had territorial claims against all neighbors, without exception.

              In a wider context, of course, because all the lands of its neighbors have ever been under Polish rule.
              Quote: smile
              But their inherent arrogance so clouded their minds that they managed to raise their tail to Hitler, who they considered to be an ally.
              But the main problem is "God did not give horns to the vigorous cow." :)))

              I agree, besides Poland’s ambitions, there wasn’t a damn thing.
          2. Bagatur
            Bagatur 14 November 2013 17: 17
            +5
            Russia is also not so far away .. But as Bismalk used to say: "Geography is fate ...!
        5. Fin
          Fin 14 November 2013 12: 17
          +8
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          And who were the Poles in the eyes of the Germans, so the meat that was not considered for people.

          As the adjutants of Hitler testified, on the morning of September 3, 1939, after receiving English and French notes about declaring war, Hitler shouted: “The Poles are a miserable, incapable, boastful gang. This is as well known to the British as we are ... It is unheard of to introduce us to the Czechs and Poles, this rabble, which is no better than the Sudanese and Hindus, as sovereign states ”
          They cannot be corrected, mental illnesses are inherited. They just need not be paid attention to, like a yapping mongrel.
        6. edge
          edge 16 November 2013 05: 40
          0
          [quote = Alexander Romanov] [quote = Vadivak] We (Poland) could find a place on the side of the Reich almost the same as Italy and, probably, better than Hungary or Romania. As a result, we would be in Moscow, where Adolf Hitler, together with Rydz-Smigly, would host the parade of victorious Polish-German troops
          and at 43, along with adolf’s soldiers, they would love to stroll along Red Square under the escort of the NKVD troops
    3. zart_arn
      zart_arn 14 November 2013 09: 34
      +5
      And when were the Poles brothers ???

      Alas, unfortunately, historical circumstances have developed so that we (Eastern and Western Slavs) have been geopolitical rivals for centuries. This happens very often with neighbors - enmity breaks out over a closet in the stairwell, over a garden bed, etc. Then this enmity develops into an implacable confrontation in everything. It happened with our peoples, and if after a fight (war), even a big one, you can somehow reconcile (the abscess of contradictions has been opened), then in this situation it is unlikely that something will help - historical memory, and history itself does not remake.
      1. smile
        smile 14 November 2013 13: 54
        14
        zart_arn
        It's not even that. that we were rivals. the fact. that Poland carried out a consistent total violent polonization on the lands it occupied - they tried to take away the language, faith, education from the Russians, everything.
        Moreover, this policy in the 16th century was absolutely identical to their policy towards us in the 20th century. Were it not for this, we would not have had such enmity, and Poland had a chance to really become a center of Slavism. But the Poles were not able to recognize the Russians as equal (unlike us), they were ruined by Russophobia.
        Remember Pilsudski's statement, my cherished dream is to reach Moscow and write on the walls of the Kremlin - "Speaking Russian is prohibited." This is the quintessence of their relationship to us.
        Look at the current politicians - even now speaking about the desirability of friendship with us, they do not forget to screw up - "although our peoples are divided by a lot." Yes, we are separated by their terry Russophobia, carefully nurtured for over half a thousand years.
        1. Bagatur
          Bagatur 14 November 2013 17: 26
          +7
          дate in that. that Poland carried out a consistent total violent polonization on the lands it occupied - they tried to take away the language, faith, education from the Russians, everything.

          This is not so surprising .. So did the Serbs after the capture of the population from the Bulgarians of the land of Macedonia. Whether teachers and clergymen were expelled, they declared all nimidbeno "rule srbi" ... Total terror began and the persecution of everyone who did not want to be identified as a Serb began. The heir to the throne Alexander Karageorgevich himself beat a 2-year-old Bulgarian girl in the face when she didn’t ask him "Pa shcha si ti?" (Kakakya ty) answered-Bulgarian .. What am I talking about? As we say in Bulgaria, when a brother cuts, he always heals in the heart! So ... don't be surprised brattsi ...
          1. smile
            smile 14 November 2013 19: 48
            +5
            Bagatur
            Greetings!
            No. we will be surprised, because. that we never behaved towards the Poles. Even when we got tired of the eternal attacks of the Poles (with the goal of enslaving the Russians) to eliminate the Polish threat, we never destroyed their faith, education, or language. A citizen of the Russian Empire had no advantages over the Poles. But the Poles gave some preferences to the Russians. We gave.
            And to be honest, it’s unpleasant to read about your conflicts with the Serbs, we treat you equally well. Personally, I do not know which of you is more right there. Bulgarians come here. And this is very good. And no one voiced the point of view of the Serbs, I have not seen on the site of the Serbs. Although I am glad that there is no dispute on the site at least between Serbs and Bulgarians ... and so we often swear among ourselves here. :))))
            1. Bagatur
              Bagatur 14 November 2013 22: 55
              +5
              Hi!
              I’m completely right, I don’t have to argue here and offend for the past, for what became 100 years ago there is no guilty. I just wanted to give an example of how people are so close to the hedgehog, faith and everything that comes to mind can be so embarrassing that they don’t look into their eyes. That's all ... So let's drink a cup and make friends, virtual friendship is not as real as it is ... what are they doing?
              1. smile
                smile 14 November 2013 23: 11
                +2
                Bagatur
                Accepted! Of course, it's better to be friends than to swear. Even virtually. :)))
                If this was an example, then I agree. The example is correct. You are right.
                1. Bagatur
                  Bagatur 14 November 2013 23: 38
                  +2
                  Be healthy!
                  1. Karlsonn
                    Karlsonn 15 November 2013 02: 14
                    +3
                    Quote: bagatura
                    Bagatur
                    Received! Of course, it's better to be friends than to swear.


                    Quote: bagatura
                    Be healthy!


                    Nice to see adequate people. drinks
      2. Shur
        Shur 16 November 2013 23: 52
        -1
        If I will pay extra for your fights for a fight, then the rivalry looks strange. Divide and rule. Just a recycled nation, devoid of fatherland and conscience. Now the infection has gone further. Vukraintsy not better. When they become unnecessary and uncomfortable, they simply clean up the territory (alcohol, drugs, fat, segregation, replacing Asians with newcomers, etc.). Isn't that familiar?
    4. edge
      edge 14 November 2013 11: 15
      +5
      Quote: saag
      And when were the Poles brothers ???

      I, too, PSHEKOFOB, had a chance to live in Poland while my father served there back in Soviet times; relations were less tense, but the style is the same .... I’ll add, my whole family is rooted in western Belarus
    5. andrejwz
      andrejwz 14 November 2013 12: 42
      +4
      Quote: saag
      And when were the Poles brothers ???

      On October 12, 2013, a sculpture of the “Soviet rapist soldier” was installed in Gdansk.
      Who knows, maybe the brothers wink .
    6. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 14 November 2013 12: 55
      +6
      Quote: saag
      And when were the Poles brothers ???


      If anyone is interested, then here Russian-Polish relations from the time of the Mongol-Tatar yoke to the start of the Great Patriotic War are examined in some detail.

      1. es.d
        es.d 15 November 2013 03: 44
        0
        Quote: Karlsonn
        If anyone is interested, then here Russian-Polish relations from the time of the Mongol-Tatar yoke to the start of the Great Patriotic War are examined in some detail.

        Delightful! "... history teaches only that which teaches nothing ...".
        Really only 5 people looked?
    7. vezunchik
      vezunchik 14 November 2013 15: 57
      +2
      500 years ago, the first democrat Ordin-Nashchekin said that the Poles are extremely unreliable and vile people ... But only Russia, despite the aggressive behavior of the "brothers", has always protected them from Germanization and from the Tavsto-Hungarian aggression and fascism. And France and England constantly set the Poles against the Russians!
      1. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 14 November 2013 17: 34
        +2
        Quote: vezunchik
        And after all, only Russia, despite the aggressive behavior of the "brothers", has always protected them from Germanization.


        And here it’s wrong:
        - From the time of Boleslav and up to the Northern War, the Poles did not do a bad job with the Germans themselves; it is another matter that in the battles with the Germans, the Russians often stood in the same ranks with the Poles, for example, as in "Battle of Grunwald"
    8. Mature naturalist
      Mature naturalist 14 November 2013 23: 45
      0
      There is a different point of view on the historical roots of Polish hatred of Russia.
      Presented by Alexander Kas (can be read here - /http://oko-planet.su/history/historynew/118583-aleksandr-kas-stroim-posledovat

      el
      nuyu-versiyu-istorii-16-18-vekov-chast-1.html
      )
      Called "We are building a SERIAL VERSION OF HISTORY of the 16-18 centuries"
      but this in no way excuses the Poles in their attitude to Russia.
      Small people - petty behavior. By the way, I noticed something similar (petty) among both Czechs and Slovaks. But the Bulgarians - there is no such thing. They are closer to us - the breadth of the soul. (IMHO, of course).
      1. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 15 November 2013 02: 26
        +1
        Quote: Mature Naturalist
        It is called "Building a SEQUENTIAL VERSION OF THE HISTORY of the 16-18 centuries"


        in 1385 the Poles embarked on the path of Catholicism, from that moment the Pope blew in his ears and as a result the Orthodox howled so much that somehow the Polish king was taken prisoner (though these Orthodox Christians do not paint the campaigns on "Muscovy"), but oh well they then repaid with Siberia.


        Quote: Mature Naturalist
        Small people - petty behavior.


        The Poles, one at a time, are normal people, it’s quite possible for a Russian to live in Poland (although I would have ACSM, and I would keep everything on the list.

        Quote: Mature Naturalist
        By the way, I noticed something similar (petty) among both Czechs and Slovaks.


        Both those and others messed themselves with the Germans.

        Quote: Mature Naturalist
        But the Bulgarians - there is no such thing. They are closer to us - the breadth of the soul. (IMHO, of course).


        In the Bulgarians says:
        - a- sense of duty,
        - b- guilt.
    9. vjhbc
      vjhbc 15 November 2013 00: 37
      +2
      until they accepted Catholicism and how they accepted and became traitors to the Slavs, it’s like Croats (these are Serbs who converted to Catholicism) and therefore they are hated by normal Slavs and despised in the West, they understand this in their souls, only by ear they never admit it and are furious
      Quote: saag
      And when were the Poles brothers ???
      1. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 15 November 2013 02: 59
        +1
        Quote: vjhbc
        Croats (these are Serbs who converted to Catholicism) and therefore they are hated by normal Slavs and despised in the West, they understand this in their souls, only by ear they never admit it and therefore rage


        Once in a eatery, the Croats jumped on ours so that ours would not cripple them, I asked:
        - What is it like to serve the Germans in the form of non-management and slaughter villagers?
        - All Croats glanced at the floor, because there is something to be ashamed of. smile as well as many Slavic peoples that exist in the world thanks to the Russians.



        when face-to-face, knife-to-knife all of us are fucked up. bully
        Now they laugh at the phrase:
        - a foolish bullet, and a well-aimed bayonet!

        and at the same time, somewhere before 1943, fencing competitions were held with bayonets! No wonder the Russian bayonet attack, only the Germans and the French (in their best times) could resist! bully History knows of cases when a detachment of several thousand Russians stormed the fortress with the 80 000 m garrison and several hundred thousand inhabitants. soldier



      2. Shur
        Shur 17 November 2013 00: 02
        0
        So many times to sell that now they do not buy)))
    10. Siberian German
      Siberian German 15 November 2013 02: 28
      +2
      that’s exactly - during the service he was at the Warsaw Pact exercises –– then these Pshekas were using a sponge - and normal relations were with the Germans and the Yugoslavs
    11. catapractic
      catapractic 16 November 2013 01: 19
      0
      and to whom they were brothers ...
    12. Shur
      Shur 16 November 2013 23: 10
      0
      Euroyanchary. From glorious Glades to shameful Poles. Caines of the Slavic clan.
    13. Megatron
      Megatron 18 November 2013 02: 15
      0
      They are not brothers to us, I have seen such "brothers" in the grave.
    14. Apostle
      Apostle 20 November 2013 20: 35
      +1
      ... they threw embassies of Russia over fires, burned a police booth, and abused the Russian flag. Clashes with the police began. According to authorities, 19 people were injured, of whom 14 had to be hospitalized ..Geeks are shameful, you can get a couple of rocket attacks on Warsaw for violating the standards, insert their fire into them deeper so that they burn brighter ...
  2. Denis
    Denis 14 November 2013 08: 53
    12
    2018 World Cup in Russia, I am sure Polyakov is waiting for a warm welcome ...
    1. Warrawar
      Warrawar 14 November 2013 10: 03
      15
      Quote: Denis
      2018 World Cup in Russia, I am sure Polyakov is waiting for a warm welcome ...

      This will just be superfluous.
      1. smile
        smile 14 November 2013 13: 56
        +6
        Warrawar
        Indeed, there is no need to fall to their level.
        1. Shur
          Shur 17 November 2013 00: 05
          0
          Why to their level, it is necessary professionally.
    2. Grandson of Veteran
      Grandson of Veteran 14 November 2013 10: 38
      +2
      "The 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia, I'm sure Polyakov will receive a warm welcome ..."
      And the psheks won't go. The Eurovision leadership has already stated that in the event of the next competition in the Russian Federation, they fear for the safety of their ... hmm ... gays and demand security guarantees. love Here you go ... Warranties will be required soldier
    3. Alexander I
      Alexander I 14 November 2013 11: 14
      +8
      They would still make their way to the championship
  3. avant-garde
    avant-garde 14 November 2013 08: 57
    +6
    Quote: Denis
    olsky professor Pavel Vechorkevi

    I would not mix sports with thugs who arranged this, well, this is my opinion.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 14 November 2013 09: 06
      +3
      Quote: avant-garde
      I would not mix sports with thugs who arranged this, well, this is my opinion.

      In the modern world, everything has long been mixed up.
    2. Denis
      Denis 14 November 2013 09: 26
      10
      Quote: avant-garde
      I would not mix sports with thugs who arranged this, well, this is my opinion.

      Do you think that after these Polish cowards (under the tacit observation of Polish cops and their local population) attacked our fans who went with their families and children without touching anyone, you think that ours will be Tollerant (gad word) to them? It would be better if their team did not get to that championship.
      1. Ihrek
        Ihrek 14 November 2013 09: 37
        +4
        I agree with Vanguard, sport is sport. We need to be above them (all sorts of scumbags). As for the silent observation of Polish cops and the local population, this is certainly a shame for them, as well as a shame for our cops and the local population, in the eyes of which they beat and broke a police skull in Moscow not so long ago. The main thing for us is that Komorowski personally apologized, it seemed to me that they were sincere.
        1. smile
          smile 14 November 2013 14: 09
          +8
          jamal
          Yes. we should be higher .... but it is not clear what does the episode with the inaction of several of our cops in capturing a criminal in the market and the episode with a planned provocation against our embassy? you understand. Someone was agreeing on the route of this march, you understand that the Polish police could not have known what their compatriots would do? Good. Of course, Komorowski apologized ... but what does it matter. if total Russophobian propaganda has not changed one iota?
          When last year in Poland "unknown hooligans" systematically beat the children of Russian diplomats, the Poles also apologized and shrugged off their little hands ... and the beatings did not stop ... you know. how did it end? "Unknown persons" beat a member of their diplomatic mission in Moscow ... and, lo and behold, the beatings of Russian children stopped ... instantly! Although they were not caught.
          I do not call to fall to their level and become like the Poles. Just think about what it says? This suggests that at best, their law enforcement agencies perfectly controlled the aggression of "unknown persons", and orders for this are given from above.
          Well yes. and then they apologize. So what's the main thing - an apology?
    3. edge
      edge 14 November 2013 11: 26
      0
      Quote: avant-garde
      I would not mix sports with thugs who arranged this, well, this is my opinion.

      so after all, this is the people, and their attitude towards neighbors ...... I think that says it all, we must close their borders drinks
  4. Stiletto
    Stiletto 14 November 2013 08: 58
    10
    Quote: Denis
    2018 World Cup in Russia, I am sure Polyakov is waiting for a warm welcome ...


    But is it worth the Great Russian psheks becoming like them?
    1. Dazdranagon
      Dazdranagon 14 November 2013 09: 27
      17
      You are right - certainly not worth it! On the contrary, it is worth accepting them with honors and dignity (and also posters with photos to hang out where our grandfathers are liberating Poland). Let them be ashamed. Let them feel who the great nation is and who the mongrel is mediocre ... This distinguishes the Russian person from the subhuman! hi
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 14 November 2013 10: 16
        11
        Quote: Dazdranagon
        (and hang out posters with photos where our grandfathers are liberating Poland. Let them be ashamed.


        Dear Dmitry. They will not be ashamed. They will say that the invaders are in the photo, but they would release themselves.
        1. edge
          edge 14 November 2013 11: 30
          +7
          Quote: Vadivak
          and hang out posters with photos where our grandfathers are liberating Poland. Let them be ashamed.

          who .... Poles ....... ashamed? they will be ashamed only when our garrison stands in Warsaw (as Goebbels called them -... these are jackals of Europe)
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 14 November 2013 11: 37
            +4
            Quote: hert
            ? they will be ashamed only when our garrison will be in Warsaw

            They will be scared, but not ashamed.
            1. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 14 November 2013 13: 29
              11
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              They will be scared, but not ashamed.


              Greetings! hi

              I agree, shame is not known to the Poles.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 14 November 2013 13: 31
                0
                You just didn't really come across them. Greetings.
                1. Karlsonn
                  Karlsonn 14 November 2013 14: 00
                  +2
                  Quote: Spade
                  You just didn't really come across them. Greetings.


                  Greetings! hi

                  You will not believe! He even visited Poland many times. wink
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 14 November 2013 14: 05
                    +2
                    Quote: Karlsonn
                    You will not believe! He even visited Poland many times.

                    So do I.
                    1. Karlsonn
                      Karlsonn 14 November 2013 15: 30
                      +2
                      Quote: Spade
                      So do I.


                      firmly shakes hands drinks
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 14 November 2013 17: 43
                        +4
                        I am also from Grodno
                      2. Karlsonn
                        Karlsonn 14 November 2013 19: 38
                        +3
                        Quote: Spade
                        I am also from Grodno


                        blowing dust out of a glass

                        And I was born near Gomel drinks
                      3. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 14 November 2013 20: 05
                        +2
                        Quote: Karlsonn
                        blowing dust out of a glass

                        And I was born near Gomel

                        Just do not blow on me, you are all radiation. laughing
                      4. Karlsonn
                        Karlsonn 14 November 2013 20: 16
                        +2
                        Quote: Spade
                        Just do not blow on me, you are all radiation.


                        mumbles from under the OZK and gas mask

                        I then lived in the Far East.
                      5. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 14 November 2013 20: 25
                        +2
                        Quote: Karlsonn
                        I then lived in the Far East.


                        And I am near Irkutsk. Rode around in year. Now I determine the temperature of meat with my hand (not a joke) But I was born in the Pinsk hospital. A word of honor, Grodno is the most beautiful city in the world ... But I'm still a Pole.
                      6. Karlsonn
                        Karlsonn 14 November 2013 21: 16
                        +1
                        Quote: Spade
                        Grodno is the most beautiful city in the world ...


                        That you just love your homeland wink
                        I like Khabarovsk, Kiev, Kobrin like
                      7. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 14 November 2013 21: 24
                        +1
                        He flew to Japan through Khabarovsk. No comparison. Grodno is the most beautiful city in the world.
                      8. Karlsonn
                        Karlsonn 15 November 2013 03: 26
                        +1
                        Quote: Spade
                        He flew to Japan through Khabarovsk. No comparison. Grodno is the most beautiful city in the world.


                        and I'm in love with the Far East. The title - "Khabarovsk" is proud! soldier ,

                        - "Kharabarovites" soaked:
                        - amers,
                        - Japanese
                        - white
                        - Canadians,
                        - the French,
                        - Czechs,
                        - Slovaks,
                        - Chinese and so on and so forth ...
                        The Red Cossacks of the Far East - slammed everyone! soldier

                        Cossacks of Dauria, sailors of the Amur Flotilla, peasants --- all bent! Then the Red Army men came and helped; Well, then our wick was inserted by a Japanese such that the Japanese decided to fight with the amers, and not with us. drinks

                        Khabarovsk is a beautiful city - a city of courage! if possible, I would show you. drinks

                        There is a video, but there is not a complete picture, - Khabarovsk has always been not easy --- there, better with a guide. wink

                        BUT, despite this, nobody canceled the "Law of Taiga".

                    2. edge
                      edge 16 November 2013 05: 52
                      0
                      and Kobrin is a Polissa fairy tale
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 14 November 2013 13: 44
    +3
    It will not be a shame. The Poles know how to fight.

    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 14 November 2013 14: 07
      +4
      The role of the 2nd Polish Corps, under the command of Lieutenant General Vladislav Anders, is immensely inflated by the Poles, personally, in my opinion, if it weren't for the American, British and French troops, the Poles would be shabby to break through the "Gustav Line". hi

      But this is only my personal opinion and I do not pretend that it is the only correct one. hi
    2. Djozz
      Djozz 14 November 2013 14: 11
      +5
      Monte Cassino, not a feat, but the shame of the Poles' corps could not take until the Moroccan troops entered the rear of the Germans, who successfully retreated from the ruins of the monastery, only then the Poles entered the monastery, so General Anders stole the victory from the Moroccans. Ksatati, only in November 1944 Churchill succeeded in pushing the Poles into the war in Italy. "Scarlet poppies and Polish bulls" link.
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 14 November 2013 15: 16
        10
        Quote: Djozz
        Monte Cassino, not a feat, and the shame of the Poles' corps could not be taken until the Moroccan troops entered the rear of the Germans, who successfully retreated from the ruins of the monastery, only then the Poles entered the monastery, so General Anders stole the victory from the Moroccans.

        The Allies used Anders' salines in the same way as Hitler intended to use them.
        Wehrmacht positions on Monte Cassino were perfectly equipped in the engineering aspect. The soldiers who passed the fields of Poland, France and Russia defended their positions. And the commander of Kesselring cannot be blamed for the lack of experience and initiative.
        In general, Anders and the company did not want to die on the fields of Russia, they had to do it in Italy. And Warsaw wasn’t released. So ... yap Polish. Brave, but stupid.
        The quintessence of this mixture of courage and stupidity can be called the fate of the Home Army. They could not create a partisan movement in the rear of the Germans (it’s necessary to sleep under the open sky, malnutrition, walk in whatever), the Warsaw uprising “framed” civilians, and the city turned into ruins. All they were capable of, these "heroes" - to bandit on the territory of Poland and the western regions of Ukraine and Belarus.
        At times, the Sage men, having caught these ghouls, and identifying them by the remnants of their uniforms and the Confederate women, did not hang on the trees, but shot them like former but officers.
        Interestingly, informal cooperation between the Polish and Russian generals continued until the mid-90s, when the pro-NATO "hawks" did not come to the top positions.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 14 November 2013 15: 22
          +3
          Quote: stalkerwalker
          In general, Anders and the company did not want to die on the fields of Russia, they had to do it in Italy. And Warsaw wasn’t released. So ... yap Polish. Brave but dumb

          In the Anders corps, the majority were not Poles, but Belarusians. And they were dying there. And therefore they do not shame.
          There was really a complete ass.
          1. Karlsonn
            Karlsonn 14 November 2013 19: 43
            +1
            Quote: Spade
            In the Anders corps, the majority were not Poles, but Belarusians.


            Honestly, I don’t own such information, all I know:
            - The three main parts of the 2-th Polish Corps were the 3-I Carpathian Rifle Division, the backbone of which were the Kopansky veterans who participated in the battle of Tobruk; The 5 I Kresov Infantry Division, transferred to Iraq and Egypt, and the 2 I separate armored brigade, which in 1945 were deployed to the Warsaw Armored Division.

            Tell me what to read on this issue ...
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 14 November 2013 20: 10
              +2
              Most were Belarusians, for example, my paternal grandfather. Only he and Anders did not go, although they took in Angarsk. Seltsy, wounded, Russian infantry, artilleryman ...
  • Doctorleg
    Doctorleg 14 November 2013 18: 39
    +1
    Quote: hert
    Quote: Vadivak
    and hang out posters with photos where our grandfathers are liberating Poland. Let them be ashamed.

    who .... Poles ....... ashamed? they will be ashamed only when our garrison stands in Warsaw (as Goebbels called them -... these are jackals of Europe)

    Goebbels said a lot more. and about us too. Not worth remembering
    1. Djozz
      Djozz 14 November 2013 18: 58
      +1
      Churchill said it, "Poland is the hyena of Europe"
  • Karlsonn
    Karlsonn 14 November 2013 13: 24
    +8
    Quote: Vadivak
    Dear Dmitry. They will not be ashamed. They will say that the invaders are in the photo, but they would release themselves.


    Something like that the Poles think.
    1. Ascetic
      Ascetic 15 November 2013 02: 28
      +4
      Quote: Karlsonn
      Something like that the Poles think.
  • Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 14 November 2013 12: 22
    +4
    after the Polish government "landed unsuccessfully" near Smolensk, we observed mourning and expressed all kinds of condolences, and who appreciated any help?
  • Marek Rozny
    Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 10: 00
    +2
    If Russia worthily and sincerely accepted the Polish fans, it would be more effective than another brawl of fans.
    The Poles are afraid of Russia (they are not afraid, namely they are afraid). Communicated with them closely and for a long time (my Polish nickname is a sign of friendship), they really have a lot of ambition. But no more and no less than the Russians. The only difference in mentality between Poles and Russians is that Poles are more religious. Even Belarusians and Ukrainians are mentally more different from Russians than Poles. Poles have absolutely all the same advantages and disadvantages inherent in the Russian people. Poles have exactly the same anecdotes as Russians. Poles have the same worldview as Russians.
    At the same time, the Poles consider themselves historically "worthier" than the Russians, while the Russians consider themselves historically "worthy".
    The Poles, like the Russians, are a brave, sincere, generous nation. The Pole doesn’t have to move anything and give the needy the last shirt. The Pole does not cost anything to instantly lose his temper and break firewood in a hurry. The Pole always has Slavic sadness in his heart for some reason.
    They are very different from the Czechs, Bulgarians, Serbs and are absolutely similar to the Russians.

    The author of the article well noticed that the Soviet government in the post-war years really tried to reset Polish-Russian relations by "cleaning up" the negative, and that which was completely bulging was blamed on tsarism and the nobles. If modern Russia did something similar, then relations would normalize. The Poles are not interested in the history of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, and they do not like the fact that Russia is overly idealizing Soviet influence on Poland and at the same time categorically denies the negative consequences of Polish-Soviet relations. Katyn, forced Sovietization, exile of Poles to Kazakhstan and Siberia, absolute foreign policy (and domestic political) lack of freedom of Poland in Soviet times - these are topics worth discussing and dotting the i's. Who is to blame, why it happened, what should be done so that this does not happen again.
    Of course, I understand that someone does not consider Stalin to blame for the shooting of Polish officers, and hell knows, maybe the Germans really shot him, but what prevents Putin from coming to this place and putting a candle in a Christian way?
    If Russia is the political successor of the USSR, then why not really apologize to Russia for the excesses allowed by the USSR (and they were) in relation to the Poles and their country? But after this, one can also demand gratitude from the Poles for all the positive things that our bilateral relations gave them.
    Poles - people are adequate and sensitive. If they see a normal attitude on the part of Russia, they will instantly forget about their claims and grievances. Well, if Russia ignores all the sensitive issues in the history of Soviet-Polish relations, then the Poles will continue to water the neighbor. And they never stop.
    Meet worthy of Polish fans. Do not deny negative pages. Do not forget about the positive moments of the overall story. And everything will work out. It is very strange to see that two close people - the Russians and the Poles, will delight in the joy of the same Germans or Anglo-Saxons. The more Slavs kill each other, the better the West. Che pretend to be there, the whole history of the Germanic peoples is the destruction of the Slavs. And so the West will always be willing to toss logs into your tears.
    1. Walking
      Walking 14 November 2013 10: 39
      +8
      Good such excesses are the territories of Danzig, East Prussia and other lands. I somehow did not notice the adequacy and sensitivity.
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 11: 15
        -8
        Quote: Hiking
        Good such excesses are the territories of Danzig, East Prussia and other lands.

        The USSR gave them these lands at the expense of the selected lands in their favor. Brest, Lviv until 1939, as you remember, belonged to Poland. We took their land, and so that they would not be indignant, they were given lands belonging to Germany.
        You are a Kazakhstani, probably there are familiar Poles. I think you know where and when they found themselves in our steppe. These are the descendants of deported Poles from the occupied Polish lands.
        1. IS-80
          IS-80 14 November 2013 13: 17
          12
          But Brest and Lviv are native Polish cities. Like Kiev. good
        2. ebrd
          ebrd 14 November 2013 19: 29
          +5
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          Brest, Lviv until 1939, as you remember, belonged to Poland ..

          And the whole of Poland, if, you remember, until 1918. belonged to the Russian Empire.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 20: 04
            -12 qualifying.
            Quote: berd
            And the whole of Poland, if, you remember, until 1918. belonged to the Russian Empire.

            And all of Russia once belonged to the Horde.
            Let's not chat up the question. These are Polish (well, or at least Polish-Lithuanian) cities. But not Russians. They are as much Russian as Tbilisi, Dushanbe or Helsinki are "Russian" cities.
            1. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 14 November 2013 20: 21
              +2
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              And all of Russia once belonged to the Horde.


              comes in from trump cards

              Greetings! hi
              And all people descended from the ancient ......!

              Quote: Marek Rozny
              These are Polish (well, or at least Polish-Lithuanian) cities. But not Russians. They are as much Russian as Tbilisi, Dushanbe or Helsinki are "Russian" cities.


              Tbilisi, Dushanbe and Helsinki are located on the site of the ancient cities of the ancient .....! tongue
              1. Apollo
                Apollo 14 November 2013 20: 30
                +4
                Quote: Karlsonn
                And all people descended from the ancient .......

                Quote: Karlsonn
                Tbilisi, Dushanbe and Helsinki are located on the site of the ancient cities of the ancient .......!


                Good evening Alexey hi
                I deleted a few words from your comment. No one is allowed to reduce the nationality to abbreviation. Either display in full or not mention at all otherwise, I will be considered as neglect or, in the worst case, as disrespect. Please follow the order in the content of the comments and respect for others visitors from Ukraine.
                1. Karlsonn
                  Karlsonn 15 November 2013 03: 30
                  +1
                  Quote: Apollon
                  I deleted a few words from your comment. No one is allowed to reduce the nationality to abbreviation. Either display in full or not mention at all otherwise, I will be considered as neglect or, in the worst case, as disrespect. Please follow the order in the content of the comments and respect for others visitors from Ukraine.


                  - miles sorry hi , as soon as I get to - "Marshal" as a punishment I will ask to demote, - "for non-compliance with the rules of the resource" hi , --- everything is correct.
            2. Lopatov
              Lopatov 14 November 2013 20: 27
              0
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              And all of Russia once belonged to the Horde.

              But Lithuania is not.
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 22: 11
                +2
                Quote: Spade
                But Lithuania is not.

                The princes of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania received labels shortly from the Horde khans until the beginning of the Great Memorial. Even Mamai wrote labels to them, although at that time labels were already written out purely nominally. Nevertheless, the fact remains that de jure permission to reign on princes received from the Horde.
                Another thing is that the imperial ambitions of the princes of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania woke up earlier than that of the Russians. They realized in time that the Horde "was no longer a cake", and slowly began to show with all their appearance that they were becoming independent. The Horde was not up to them. In the end, the Lytvins completely "got sick" (in the good sense of the word) and began to actually pursue their own policies. Incl. intervening in the feuds of "political parties" in the Horde, supporting their candidates for the Kagan throne.
                And it was the Lithuanians who first began to gnaw off their lands from the Horde in the region of modern Ukraine, when the Mamaevites urinated with the Tokhtamyshev / Tamerlaneites. Later, the Russian princes will sense that the Chingizid princes have crushed them, and that there is no longer any "hard hand" in the Horde, which means that you can conduct your own policy. But the first were exactly the Lithuanians. They were the first to organize their own really independent state from Sarai. And they were the first in the post-Horde space to lure into their service the Horde princes and simply steppe families as a military force (the current Polish-Lithuanian Tatars). Then Moscow will begin to lure Chingizids, Murzas and just warriors to itself.
                In general, "Lithuania" initially had more prospects of becoming the new core of the Empire, but it so happened that the Russians slowly harnessed, but quickly drove off, seizing the initiative)))
                1. Shur
                  Shur 17 November 2013 00: 50
                  0
                  The fog is all this. Where some kind of blood of Genghisites has gone, there is none. Not here among the Tatars in Tatarstan, not among the Russians. The term Tatar-Mongols is generally dregs of the finger. We know a version from the 18th century from Europe. But Mongolian blood is somehow not determined at the places of conquest, and so on. Old books were burned in Russia. Who came there and how it all was fog. Lithuania and others had no prospects — they are not capable of uniting peoples. These are just regular quasi-states. Time will put everything in its place, the process has already begun.
            3. IS-80
              IS-80 14 November 2013 22: 00
              +2
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              And all of Russia once belonged to the Horde.


              And the Horde of Russia. Not Polish, and you are right not to talk.
            4. catapractic
              catapractic 16 November 2013 11: 06
              +1
              do not distort all of Poland (part of it belonged to Prussia and Austria) and not all of Russia — they did not reach Novgorod or Pskov either.
            5. iConst
              iConst 17 November 2013 00: 12
              0
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              And all of Russia once belonged to the Horde.

              Yeah, Russia. Tell me, America also belonged to the Horde.

              No need to juggle - then there was no Russia. This concept appeared during the time of John III of the Land Collector, when he, in fact, sent the Horde in three letters, having killed (note!) The ambassadors.

              The fact that the Russian principalities bordering the Horde - Moscow, and the southern ones were levied with tribute - does not mean "belonged".

              Moreover, the Novgorod Republic was never accessible to the Horde.
            6. Shur
              Shur 17 November 2013 00: 36
              0
              But Kazakhstan in general, the brainchild of Leninists as such an answer?
        3. Setrac
          Setrac 14 November 2013 20: 10
          +1
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          I think you know where and when they found themselves in our steppe. These are the descendants of deported Poles from the occupied Polish lands.

          Now get 10 million minuses from Belarusians and 45 from Ukrainians.
        4. Shur
          Shur 17 November 2013 00: 35
          0
          Volhynia and Galicia are Russian lands wise guy.
    2. Fox
      Fox 14 November 2013 11: 06
      22
      Quote: Marek Rozny
      Of course, I understand that someone does not consider Stalin to blame for the shooting of Polish officers, and hell knows, maybe the Germans really shot him, but what prevents Putin from coming to this place and putting a candle in a Christian way?



      He admitted and obeyed, participated in the show in Katyn.
      Before him, E.B.N. sprinkled ash on his head.
      The Poles do not hate Soviet power, and not imperial Russia, but Russians, well, Ukrainians for the company.
      Yes, they are capable of personal friendship, but friendly relations are justified (precisely "justified", not "explained") by the fact that "you do not look like a Russian."

      The stereotype of the "Russian" is hammered into their foreheads and sticks out like a rusty nail.
      Since it was the Russian who stood up and stands on the road to the creation of Greater Poland "from Mozha to Mozha".
      The reason is not being able to expand to the West (due to strong western neighbors) their attempts "Drang nach Osten" were hampered by the east "all their life."
      Yes, stupid fans are not worth crushing, in my opinion. They have no "understandings" in their heads, but simple "psheki" - they are not needed, this is not human.
      Well, in general, they went ... the forest for Susanin.
      1. Fox
        Fox 14 November 2013 11: 10
        +1
        Here, even the purely Polish word "B.Y.D.L.O" will not be sent
      2. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 11: 25
        -1
        Quote: Liss
        He admitted and obeyed, participated in the show in Katyn.
        Before him, E.B.N. sprinkled ash on his head.

        Both true and false. To make it clear why the Poles are still annoyed, I will cite a boring text:

        "On July 13, 1994, the head of the investigative group of the GVP A.Yu. Yablokov issued a resolution to terminate the criminal case on the basis of paragraph 8 of Article 5 of the Criminal Procedure Code of the RSFSR (for the death of those responsible), and in the resolution Stalin, members of the Politburo Molotov, Voroshilov, Mikoyan, Kalinin and Kaganovich , Beria and other leaders and employees of the NKVD, as well as perpetrators of executions found guilty in the commission of crimes provided for in paragraphs a, b, c of Article 6 of the Charter of the International Military Tribunal in Nuremberg (crimes against peace, war crimes, crimes against humanity). It was such a qualification of the “Katyn case” (but with respect to the Nazis) that was already given by the Soviet side in 1945–1946 when it was submitted to the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

        The Main Military Prosecutor's Office and the General Prosecutor's Office of the Russian Federation three days later, Yablokov’s decree was canceled, and further investigation was assigned to another prosecutor.

        On September 21, 2004, the GVP of the Russian Federation terminated criminal case No. 159 on the basis of Clause 4 of Part 1 of Article 24 of the Code of Criminal Procedure of the Russian Federation (for the death of those responsible). Having reported this to the public only a few months later, the then Chief Military Prosecutor A.N. Savenkov at his press conference March 11, 2005 declared secret not only the majority of the investigation materials, but also the decision itself to terminate the “Katyn case”. Thereby, the personal composition of the guilty was also classified.

        The GWP also reported that in 36 volumes of the criminal case there are documents with the heading “secret” and “top secret”, and in 80 volumes - documents with the heading “for official use”. For this reason, access to 116 of the 183 volumes is closed. In the fall of 2005, the Polish prosecutors were briefed on the remaining 67 volumes “not containing information constituting a state secret”.

        In 2005-2006 years GWP RF refused to consider applications for rehabilitation filed by relatives and Memorial as victims of political repression of a number of specific executed Polish prisoners of war, and in 2007 the Khamovnichesky District Court of Moscow and the Moscow City Court confirmed these failures of the SHG ".

        In other words, Russia did not put an end to the Katyn case. Lyakhi, essno, negodue.
        1. Fox
          Fox 14 November 2013 11: 44
          +8
          Well, this is purely Polish: "We wanted to see not gray, but black ashes on your head. And to be on my knees with my pants down ..."
          Nonsense of Greater Poland.
          They poke around in this abscess in the KAIF, and they will "" these warts of grievances to the end of their life ...
          "Petty" some ...
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 12: 22
            -5
            Quote: Liss
            "Petty" some ...

            The Poles lost many of the best people in their country there. These are not just nameless ordinary soldiers, but the big names of their country. This is not said to the Russians by the name of a thread of Wojciech бbrschvršmršvsheshsky or Janek Karschmrрšvršgrшьršchukowski, but for the Poles they are all kinds of famous figures of culture, politics, science, and not just officers of the Polish army.
            1. Fox
              Fox 14 November 2013 12: 47
              11
              First, how many decades-centuries will they still "grieve"?

              Secondly, is it possible for "well-known figures" who were killed not on the principle of officers? List, pliz!

              Rousseau-Ukrainians, strangled by the Poles, is it "pno" (Ukrainian.)
              1. Bagatur
                Bagatur 14 November 2013 17: 39
                +2
                He will always remember! ~ And so it should be ... of course I don’t think that this will be justified by the first-signal Russophobia ... Didn't they in Biolgaria beat the Turks for 500 years as they cut and trample us on the way that now they are "allies" in NATO did not bring love to them quite the opposite. How man is made ...

                The one who was under the knives remembers his blood and tears, the one who cut the "deeds" or is silent ...
            2. smile
              smile 14 November 2013 15: 30
              11
              Marek Rozny
              We released almost three hundred thousand prisoners of war almost immediately. Among those 4 whom the Germans shot in the Goat Mountains, there were many. Mostly the gendarmes, counterintelligence workers, a significant part of their detainees, those who were imprisoned in war crimes of the 000s, and those who were oppressors who oppressed the population of our territories occupied by the Poles. Really the best people. :))) In principle, the road is there for them. :))
              Interestingly, the number of the best Polish people has gradually increased from 4 to over 20 now. In about five years, there will be 000. Then I look at why they are so strange, of course, there are no better ones left ... here the worst ones are lying - even the jacket is wrapped up. :)))
              1. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker 14 November 2013 15: 52
                +6
                Quote: smile
                Mostly the gendarmes, counterintelligence workers, a significant part of their detainees, those who were imprisoned in war crimes of the 20s, and those who were oppressors who oppressed the population of our territories occupied by the Poles. Really the best people.

                In 1945-1949, nothing prevented us from doing the same with the captured SS-Balts, with those who, like AKovtsy, continued to fight more against the civilian population than with the Soviet regime. But they didn't shoot. Sent to "raise" the Siberian expanses and Kazakh steppes. Now it turns out that not all (far from all!) Were expelled. And the sentences were soft.
            3. Setrac
              Setrac 14 November 2013 20: 25
              +3
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              The Poles lost many of the best people in their country there.

              The best people were dying in western Poland at that time.
            4. I am
              I am 14 November 2013 22: 44
              0
              Pi **** not tossing bags !!!! I lived under the USSR until the age of 10 in a garrison near Warsaw (In Soviet) and I don’t remember something in the lessons of the history of the analysis of the great Polish heroes mentioned here. So be modest be panov!
              1. Karlsonn
                Karlsonn 15 November 2013 03: 37
                +1
                Quote: I am
                I lived in the garrison near Warsaw (In Soviet) until the 10 years of the USSR and I don’t remember something in the lessons of the history of the analysis of the great Polish heroes mentioned here. So be modest be panov!


                Dear love , under the Soviet Power, the communists drowned such moments, as they drowned, that the Ukrainians burned Khatyn; internaciolism is when the communists do not blame the nation. And the DV fighters showed it.
                In the 1945 year, on the 9 of August, my grandfather, the Chekist, beat enemies!
                And beat hard!

        2. smile
          smile 14 November 2013 15: 19
          12
          Marek Rozny
          During the investigation, after the elbon left, it turned out that the bulk of the documents were falsified. That we are not guilty of the execution in the Goat Mountains and the Goebbels version is a fake. This is the position of our GWP. Two years ago, the courts of the European Court also connected with this the claims of the Poles.
          But I don’t understand otherwise. Why are you raising the question of 80 thousand Soviet POWs destroyed by the Poles and tens of thousands of victims of the Polish occupation of Ukraine and Belarus? Where is their apology and repentance7 And if they really demand compensation. Where are their much greater compensation, not fictitious by Goebbels, but of real crimes?

          Although, in principle, I am not surprised by your position - you will be for anyone, if only against the Russians, this is your credo. :)))
          1. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker 14 November 2013 15: 47
            +5
            Quote: smile
            And if they demand compensation. Where are their much greater compensation, not fictitious by Goebbels, but of real crimes?

            Goebbels first mentioned the "best Poles" after the defeat of the Wehrmacht at Stalingrad - it was necessary to explain to the "cultured German people" the reasons for the defeat ... But the idea turned out to be fruitful and was continued.
        3. 11111mail.ru
          11111mail.ru 14 November 2013 17: 50
          +4
          Yasnovelmozhny, after the "march on Warsaw" the pilgrims captured about 150 thousand Red Army prisoners. Repatriated about 59 thousand. Where are the bones of 90 thousand tortured smoldering? Are you afraid to remember them?
    3. Alexander I
      Alexander I 14 November 2013 11: 18
      11
      And Poland has nothing to apologize to Russia for? Are they smooth and fluffy?
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 11: 37
        -15 qualifying.
        Quote: Alexander I
        And Poland has nothing to apologize to Russia for? Are they smooth and fluffy?

        Let's not act like little children "He started first! Let him apologize first!" If the Russian people and the authorities consider themselves to be adults, then it is necessary to look not for those who "started" first, but to be the one who "finished" first.
        The Slavs love to pull out like bowls from the past and mess with them until they lose their pulse. What are Russians, what are Ukrainians, what are Poles. This is the difference from the close in spirit, but still different in this regard, Türks (including mental twins - Hungarians, Mongols and Japanese). These people will never apologize, and they won’t apologize to others, the war ended - good neighborly relations began, war began - good neighborly relations ended, war ended - good neighborly relations began again without any reproaches and insults. The Slavs do not know how to switch as Asian Turans, they like to wave their fists on the Internet and in the kitchen after a fight. Poles are made from the same test as the Russians. First apologize, if this is required by the mysterious Slavic soul, and then the Poles themselves will come with a bottle of vodka to finally come to terms.
        1. IS-80
          IS-80 14 November 2013 14: 34
          +3
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          This is the difference from the close in spirit, but still different in this regard, Türks (including mental twins - Hungarians, Mongols and Japanese). These people will never apologize, and they won’t apologize to others, the war ended - good neighborly relations began, war began - good neighborly relations ended, war ended - good neighborly relations began again without any reproaches and insults.


          Did the Turks wars among themselves because of mutual love and respect always started? Kazakhs love the Dzungars very much?
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 15: 44
            -2
            Quote: IS-80
            Did the Turks wars among themselves because of mutual love and respect always started?

            Because of the pasture. If one genus grew, then its herds and flocks increased. So you have to take pastures from neighbors. Or the climate suddenly podgadil and pastures became sparse, then again it is necessary to crowd neighbors. This is the main cause of the nomad wars with each other.
            But the Turks did not wage bloody wars among themselves. Because relatives are to each other. Big wars took place on the wreckage of the Horde, when khans from different Genghisid tribes tried to figure out who deserved to become the supreme khan (kagan). Impressive armies then gathered and clawed each other. But again, this is a war of armies against armies, and not a people against a people.
            Quote: IS-80
            Kazakhs love the Dzungars very much?
            Dzhungars - completely exterminated in the wars for the possession of the pastures of East Kazakhstan by the Kazakhs and the Manchurians of the Qing Empire. The Shurshuts pushed them from the east, the Dzhungars had to push back and clash with the eastern Kazakhs in their west. So, several centuries were cut for the right to graze their herds. When there were peaceful years with the Dzhungars, the Kazakhs and Dzhungars communicated very closely with each other. Kazakh medieval akyns sang that a real Kazakh can only be born from a male Kazakh and a female dzhungarka. If you were in Kazakhstan, you noticed the presence of very Mongoloid Kazakhs (even by Turkic standards). Usually these are the Kazakhs of East Kazakhstan, who came into closest contact with Dzungaria. I’m even afraid to imagine how much Dzungarian blood flows in modern Kazakhs))) A lot)
            The problem is that since the Dzungars are no longer in the world, it was very convenient to expose them to modern Kazakh historiography as a convenient enemy, which supposedly was always implacable. You can hang all the dogs on the dead Dzungars, make films where they are portrayed as 100% bad guys and don’t remember that between the warriors the Kazakhs and Dzungars got along well with each other, especially at sunset of the Dzungarian state. But as soon as the next war began, they wet each other without sentiment.
            I have a cousin - a Naimanka (East Kazakh family), so I usually call her "dzhungarka", because she has a sooooo Mongolian face. Although the eyes are green-emerald)))
            1. IS-80
              IS-80 14 November 2013 16: 11
              0
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              But the Turks did not wage bloody wars among themselves. Because relatives are to each other.

              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Dzhungars - completely exterminated in the wars for the possession of the pastures of East Kazakhstan by the Kazakhs and the Manchurians of the Qing Empire.

              Well, yes, yes, yes, among the Dzungars and Kazakhs, water flows in the veins, and not blood.
              And they destroyed the Dzungars the same way, by loving relatives.

              And by the way, what about those who were able to escape to the Kalmyks, or are they no longer considered?

              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Kazakh medieval akyns sang that a real Kazakh can only be born from a male Kazakh and a female dzhungarka


              And from the jungar and Kazakh woman who is real born?
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 19: 54
                +1
                Quote: IS-80
                And they destroyed the Dzungars the same way, by loving relatives.

                Dzhungars are not our relatives. These are Mongolian tribes, and we are Türks. We are united by the fact that we are nomads, but the language, religion and so on have always been different.
                Quote: IS-80
                And by the way, what about those who were able to escape to the Kalmyks, or are they no longer considered?

                Nobody ran away to the Kalmyks. The Kalmyks are in themselves the breakaway Dzungars, who fled from the Kazakh-Dzungar showdown into the Russian Empire. No one else was allowed to see them. Moreover, the Kalmyks very soon decided all together to return to Dzungaria (despite the opposition of the Russian authorities). The main part left the Volga steppes, and only a small part did not have time to leave. These remaining ones are the Kalmyks ("Kalmak" is the Kazakh name that stuck in the Russian language. It literally means "the one who remained"). Those Kalmyks who tried to pass through the Kazakh steppes were exterminated by the Kazakhs and only a small handful of these Dzungars reached their own. To your own destruction.
                Quote: IS-80
                And from the jungar and Kazakh woman who is real born?
                This KVN-schik))) Sangadzhi Tarbaev - captain of the RUDN University team))) On the father - Kalmyk, on the mother - Kazakh)
                1. IS-80
                  IS-80 14 November 2013 20: 56
                  0
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  Dzhungars are not our relatives. These are Mongolian tribes, and we are Türks. We are united by the fact that we are nomads, but the language, religion and so on have always been different.


                  As far as I remember from what I read among the Dzungars, there were quite decent Turkic people.

                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  Nobody escaped to the Kalmyks. Kalmyks are breakaway Dzhungars in their own right, which have fallen from the Kazakh-Dzungarian showdowns within the Russian Empire.


                  Kalmyks are those who migrated earlier. They didn’t all run away at once.

                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  This KVN-schik))) Sangadzhi Tarbaev - captain of the RUDN University team))) On the father - Kalmyk, on the mother - Kazakh


                  And yet you did not answer, but joked.

                  And yet, it is not necessary to idealize the Turks. They also cut each other decently.
            2. Starshina wmf
              Starshina wmf 15 November 2013 20: 22
              0
              The Dzungar Khanate fell under the blows of the Qing Empire. And the Kazakhs accepted the citizenship of Russia, and only this saved them from destruction. Although before the Soviet regime in Central Asia there was no state of Kazakhstan. Before the arrival of the Russians, in the middle of the XNUMXth century, on the territory of Central Asia there were three large feudal formations - the Khiva and Kokand khanates, and the Bukhara emirate, as well as a mass of small city-states. All of them in their development stood at the level of the early Middle Ages. In addition, nomadic tribes at the tribal system moved along their territory. These tribes did not have their own statehood, but they did not directly subordinate to the feudal lords, although they were often involved as mercenaries in feudal feuds.
              Not only did the present states of Central Asia not exist. The population was heterogeneous, represented by numerous tribes and small peoples - sedentary, semi-sedentary and nomadic, such as the Kipchaks, Merkits, Yomuds, Tekins, Ersari, Kirgyz-Kaisaks (Kazakhs), Sarts, Mangyts, Karakalpaks, Arabs), Persians (and , Gypsies-Lyuli, etc. In Bukhara, there were people of different faiths - Hindus, Bukharian Jews. From the second half of the XNUMXth century, all steppe nomads were called "Kirgyz-Kaisaks". They themselves called themselves "Hasak", but more often - by belonging to one or another clan - Naimans, Jalaiirs, Dulats, Argyns, Teke, etc. Sedentary peoples were called either by their territorial affiliation - "Bukharians", "Kokands", or tribal - Kipchaks, Sarts.
        2. Fox
          Fox 14 November 2013 14: 55
          +9
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          Poles are made from the same test as the Russians. First apologize, if this is required by the mysterious Slavic soul, and then the Poles themselves will come with a bottle of vodka to finally come to terms.

          If you, dear Marek Rozny, do not have enough apologies from 2 Russian presidents, please be kind enough to offer a RITUAL OF APPOKING APPEALS FROM THE FACE OF THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE TO THE OFFICIAL POLISH PEOPLE.
          In general, as I already understood, Poles are historically prone to cheap theatrical effects.
          Nichrome in this they are not similar to Russian.
          Only a great nation can forgive.
          It's like in a family: "Let's not remember ..." - It is customary not to remember or remind about unpleasant things if you want a normal relationship. It's in Russian.
          For the Poles, it is important that the spouse admits the guilt with humiliation and ate the earth in confirmation that "there will be no more."
          I repeat, they are some kind of ...
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 16: 21
            -5
            Quote: Liss
            offer the RITUAL OF AN APPLICATION FROM THE PERSON OF THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE TO THE OFFICIAL POLISH PEOPLE.

            There is no secret here. The Poles are asking to declassify information on Katyn, which was, as it was, complete lists of shot ones, who was responsible, etc.
            Russia does not give Old. Irritation of the Poles is understandable.
            In addition, the Poles are enraged that a significant part of Russians (or rather Russian historians) continue to deny NKVD involvement in this tragedy, trying to blame everything on the Nazis in Soviet times.
            My friend Tomasz, who graduated from high school in socialist Poland, said that even in Soviet times in Poland everyone knew who shot the Polish officers in Katyn - his history teacher during the lesson said that they were Germans, and during the break explained that it was there were employees of the NKVD.
            The Poles all these years silently endured lies from the USSR. As socialism collapsed, they broke through. Has accumulated. To such an extent the Poles parted that even "4 tankers and a dog" were banned from showing on Polish television. And although they strongly swear at this series for its excessive ideology, the Poles will willingly chat over a glass of tea about how they liked this film in childhood.
            Russia red tape the issue with Katyn, referring to secrecy and chip-board. I would also be outraged. My grandfather's younger brother was shot as a Japanese spy (although he is a simple Kazakh who did not see foreigners in the eye). In the 50s he was completely rehabilitated; in the early 90s, the KGB of Kazakhstan issued all his documents (even his passport was preserved). Everyone calmed down. And if the committee members did not give out all the information, then all my relatives would also boil like Poles.
            To me personally, the emotions of the Poles are very clear. Kazakhs, for example, regularly ask Russia: "You certainly do not have the head of our Kenesary Khan?" The Russians answer: "No. We ourselves do not know where we have lost." Ours will drown and calm down. Until the next truth-seeker starts to ask Russian museums anew: "Return the head of our murdered khan!" And the Russians shrug their shoulders: "Eeee, I got lost somewhere." Ours are annoyed, because it is a historical fact that the Kyrgyz people gave the head of the deceased khan into the hands of the Russian administration, and they sent it to St. Petersburg to the museum. We do not need an apology, but if the skull was found and returned, then it would be one less nuisance.
            Well, or Russia still does not tell Kazakhstan what bacteriological rubbish was tested on Barsakelmes island in the Aral Sea. Like, classified information. Like, understand yourself what the USSR Ministry of Defense has done there.
            Who would be pleased with this attitude? Okay, the steppes are calm people. If this Barsakelmes was on the Vistula River, and Kosciuszko’s skull would be hiding in the Kunstkamera, then your Slav brothers would not have stopped the noise-and-din for a minute.

            Quote: Liss
            I repeat, they are some kind of ...

            And what about the Russians, if they are talking about prisoners of war of the 20s? The Russian Ministry of Defense has already admitted that not 80 thousand died there, but less than 20 thousand, but the Russians are hooked on "80 thousand" and cannot let go of this figure. Moreover, the percentage of deaths of Red Army soldiers is relatively not much higher than the percentage of deaths of Poles in Soviet camps (20% and 10% of the total number of internees). So how are you different from the Poles?
            1. smile
              smile 14 November 2013 20: 02
              +4
              Marek Rozny
              Marek, that's the trouble. that the lists of those whom we shot we published, we shot about 6-8 hundred (I don’t remember exactly) war criminals, executioners soiled with Russian blood to the ears according to the verdicts of the courts.
              All. There are no other lists anymore. Where can they come from in the archives, if we did not shoot the Poles, as the materials convince. Goebbels concocted? Provide lists NOT shot? This is absurd. :)))

              I already wrote, provide us with evidence that the Kazakhs do not eat Russian on an industrial scale. Documents with roll-up lists (eaten) are required. if you don’t provide us, then what? And really eat them? But the logic of the Polish supporters of Goebbels and yours is exactly that. :)))
            2. Setrac
              Setrac 14 November 2013 20: 36
              0
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Moreover, the percentage of deaths of the Red Army soldiers is relatively slightly higher than the percentage of deaths of Poles in Soviet camps (20% and 10% of the total number of internees). So how do you differ from the Poles?

              You're lying.
              Let the Poles repent for the destruction of the Russian princes during the time of unrest, and a HUGE amount of other Russians.
              1. ramzes1776
                ramzes1776 15 November 2013 01: 27
                +1
                Quote: Setrac
                Let the Poles repent for the destruction of the Russian princes during the time of unrest, and a HUGE amount of other Russians.

                Yes, at least they said thanks for the fact that their country was freed from the fascist plague !!! So their nationalists, with the complete connivance of the police and with the tacit consent of the majority of the population, desecrate the graves of Soviet soldiers and sculpt incomprehensible sculptures in gratitude. not alike.
            3. I am
              I am 14 November 2013 22: 48
              +1
              Go to the cemeteries of the Soviet military in Poznan, Gdansk, Warsaw - count. Well then, then enlighten us all. And this is only the BIGGEST.
            4. Liss.
              Liss. 15 November 2013 13: 33
              0
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              There is no secret here. The Poles are asking to declassify information on Katyn, which was, as it was, complete lists of the shot ones, who was responsible, etc. Russia does not give information. Irritation of the Poles is understandable.

              For those in the tank: EVERYTHING that they found (and even for the sake of the Poles, forged) in Katyn were transferred to the Poles.
              To expose EBN, Kozyrev and others as a corrupt career pi-dote in concealing the "crimes of the communist regime" (they tried to arrange a trial over the Communist Party of the Soviet Union) is simply ridiculous.
              The result of this hysteria was the "additions" to the Katyn papers by the Ognkov-Yakovlev "remake".
              I think, if the lazy Poles had guessed to provide the lists of the "innocent victims" - THESE probably "for the sake of pacification" would have reprinted them on old forms.
              Well, the Poles and why the fuck is not necessary reason for hatred.
              Desirable forever.
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              In addition, the Poles are enraged that a significant part of Russians (or rather Russian historians) continue to deny NKVD involvement in this tragedy, trying to blame everything on the Nazis in Soviet times.
              What do the Poles care about Russian historians? To them our PRESIKI performed a bow of sorrow, not only on their own behalf.
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              My friend Tomasz, who graduated from high school in socialist Poland, said that even in Soviet times in Poland everyone knew who shot the Polish officers in Katyn - his history teacher during the lesson said that they were Germans, and during the break explained that it was there were employees of the NKVD.

              Yes, it's cool to have TWO VERSIONS. Taking into account the political conjuncture, you can attract both the Germans and the Russian in one "case".
              The proverb "Two Jews - three opinions" is no longer rolling, because "One Pole has two truths."
              Dirty, small ...

              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Russia red tape the issue with Katyn, citing secrecy and dsp-shn
              - give such a link, pliz, otherwise I will think that you are "zvizdyun". Give - together we will be indignant! I give a tooth!
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              We do not need an apology, but if we found the skull and returned, then one trouble would be less.

              Tell the size of the skull. It is very strange that they still have not returned!
              And then to offended Poles to get offended Kazakhs, here Pavlodar, Tselinograd, Kustanai will not work as yasak!

              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Well, or Russia still does not tell Kazakhstan what bacteriological rubbish was tested on Barsakelmes island in the Aral Sea. Like, classified information. Like, understand yourself what the USSR Ministry of Defense has done there.
              Want to know purely out of curiosity? Try outsourcing from ASASAIKE to get biologists that in Iraq chemical weapons were found in a test tube for the state secretary.
              Or compensation for? Poor Russia ...

              Quote: Marek Rozny
              And then what kind of Russians, if they discuss the topic of prisoners of war of the 20s?
              Apart from the Polish "grievances", the topic is not raised n-and-k-o-g-ah!
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 15 November 2013 16: 51
                +1
                Quote: Liss.
                For those in the tank: EVERYTHING that they found (and even for the sake of the Poles, forged) in Katyn were transferred to the Poles.

                Quote: Liss.
                give such a link, pliz, otherwise I will think that you are "zvizdyun". Give - together we will be indignant! I give a tooth!

                For those in the tank: a small part of the documents was handed over to the Poles. Are you too lazy to follow the correspondence here? I have already written how many volumes on Katyn in total, how many of them are classified as "secret", how many are classified as "DSP", and how many have been transferred to the Poles.
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                Chief Military Prosecutor A.N. Savenkov at his press conference on March 11, 2005 declared secret not only most of the materials of the investigation, but also the decision itself to terminate the “Katyn case”. Thus, the personal composition of the guilty parties was also classified.
                The Main Military Prosecutor’s Office (the Main Military Prosecutor’s Office of the Russian Federation) also reported that in 36 volumes of the criminal case there are documents labeled “secret” and “top secret”, and in 80 volumes there are documents labeled “for official use”. On this basis 116 of 183 volumes closed. In the fall of 2005, the Polish prosecutors were briefed on the remaining 67 volumes “not containing information constituting a state secret”.
                In 2005-2006, the Main Military Prosecutor's Office of the Russian Federation refused to consider the applications filed by relatives and Memorial about the rehabilitation of a number of specific executed Polish prisoners of war as victims of political repression, and in 2007 the Khamovnichesky District Court of Moscow and the Moscow City Court confirmed these refusals to the Main Prosecutor's Office. "

                Be careful, then you will not have to be rude.

                Quote: Liss.
                Tell the size of the skull. It is very strange that they still have not returned!

                Not at all funny. I think you wouldn’t mock if another state didn’t return the remains of Russian national figures to Russia.

                Quote: Liss.
                here Pavlodar, Tselinograd, Kustanai will not be served as yasak!

                A stupid hint that it’s all Russian? Open the census of the population of these regions of Kazakhstan in the 19th century (available in the internet) and see how many Russians were there only 100 years ago. After a careful study of the census of the population of these regions before the revolution, any smart guy who demands the return of "the original Russian lands" no longer wants to argue.
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 15 November 2013 16: 53
                  0
                  Quote: Liss.
                  Want to know purely out of curiosity? Try outsourcing from ASASAIKE to get biologists that in Iraq chemical weapons were found in a test tube for the state secretary.
                  Or compensation for? Poor Russia ...

                  Again not funny. On the islands of Barsakelmes and the Aral Sea Renaissance, biological weapons have been tested for 50 years. Renaissance Island is now a peninsula, and Barsakelmes generally became part of the land. It is impossible to close the entire territory. The study area is large enough. Kazakhstan is exploring the island on its own (formally closed under the guise of a nature reserve). But they themselves must understand that it would not be necessary to spend time, money and effort if they had information that Moscow is not going to share. People, cattle come into this territory, there are winds blowing in all directions. It’s not very pleasant to realize that some rubbish can fly out of a poorly buried burial ground (there thousands of animals were destroyed by biological weapons).
                  We don't need money from Russia. Don't whine. We do not even ask you for money for the treatment of thousands of victims of nuclear explosions, for these are the affairs of the USSR, not the Russian Federation. It is enough for Russia to pay for the reclamation of lands contaminated with heptyl during space rocket accidents. Now Russia has been billed for the last accident - it means that the other day the Runet will again choke on the shout: "Ungrateful! We gave them the Cyrillic alphabet, but they demand some money! Let them breathe heptyl and be glad that the Russians have built Baikonur for them." Complete nonsense, but the Russians write this under every Baikonur article.
                2. The comment was deleted.
                3. Liss.
                  Liss. 20 November 2013 10: 35
                  -1
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  Quote: Marek Rozny, Chief Military Prosecutor A.N. Savenkov at his press conference on March 11, 2005 declared not only the majority secret investigation materials, but the very decision to terminate the "Katyn case".


                  I consider it inappropriate to argue with you further. Sir, you are a sharpie.
                  "Investigation materials" are classified, not "documents about the" execution "itself.
        3. Tartary
          Tartary 14 November 2013 15: 18
          +6
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          then you need to look not for those who first "started", but to be the one who first "finished".

          It seems that just start Russia to follow your advice, it will immediately turn out that you need to rehabilitate non-Germans for fascism, and bring the Russians to the new Nuremberg process ... And all, including babies.

          Fig you!
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 20: 31
            -2
            Quote: Tartary
            It seems that just start Russia to follow your advice, it will immediately turn out that you need to rehabilitate non-Germans for fascism, and bring the Russians to the new Nuremberg process ... And all, including babies.

            1) Germany has already rehabilitated for the crimes of Nazism, both morally and financially. The Nazi criminals themselves received a well-deserved punishment and they are not subject to rehabilitation. No one else seems to have complaints against the German people.
            2) about Russians and Nuremberg - it’s something you have already imagined for yourself. better write about Fomenko.
            1. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 14 November 2013 20: 39
              +5
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Germany has already rehabilitated for the crimes of Nazism, both morally and financially. The Nazi criminals themselves received a well-deserved punishment and they are not subject to rehabilitation. No one else seems to have complaints against the German people.

              Well, Marek, you write, but think ahead. With this logic, Russia will be forced to "repent" for the liberation of Europe from the Nazis (which, by the way, was called by the Deutsche President). Or do you, like Svinidze, put SS-Waffen and SMERSH on the same board?
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 15 November 2013 17: 07
                -1
                Stalkerwalker, I don’t need to be encouraged to think. I already think what I wish you. I say that Russia should normally apologize for Katyn, as the successor of the USSR. The shooting of Polish officers taken prisoner, and even considering that formally the USSR did not fight Poland in 1919, is a crime. And no other way.
                And do not attribute to me fascist conclusions.
                Roughly speaking, I say: "Petya, you crashed someone else's car. This is not good." And Petya answers me: "Maybe I still have to repent for the fascists? Or maybe you are a fascist yourself, if you make me feel guilty ?!"
                They shot the Poles, give them all the documents, announce all the information that concerns Katyn. Do not scoff at the relatives of the victims. This is an open mockery, that of official Moscow, that of forum users.
                I'm not going to call you to Christian morality, because this is a weak argument for a "homo sovieticus" (which I myself am), but imagine if the leadership of the Federal Republic of Germany refused to provide information to relatives of concentration camp prisoners, referring to the fact that the documents on the extermination of prisoners of war - "Information for Official Use". Did you imagine the indignation of the Russians?

                Z.Y. Kazakhstan completely transfers all information on prisoners of war contained in Soviet camps on the territory of the Kazakh SSR. Just the other day, information was transmitted on Spanish prisoners of war.
                November 7 2013
                Spain thanked Kazakhstan for the transfer of archives from World War II.

                Spanish public organizations thanked Kazakhstan for transmitting archival materials about the Spaniards held in the Karaganda forced labor camp during the Second World War.

                A letter of gratitude from the leaders of Spanish public organizations was received in the name of the President of Kazakhstan Nursultan Nazarbayev. It is noted that archival materials about the Spaniards held in Karlag were transferred during the official visit of the Prime Minister of Spain Mariano Rajoy to Astana.

                "You are the first and so far the only Head of State from the former republics of the USSR who has shown humanity and readiness to help restore the historical memory of our country about those tragic years. We are deeply touched and grateful to you.", - says the appeal of the Spanish public organizations.

                The authors of the letter also note that the materials are invaluable documents for relatives and relatives, as well as for scientific researchers in Spain. It is reported that the transfer of these archives received significant resonance in the Spanish media and among the public in the country.


                1. edge
                  edge 16 November 2013 06: 25
                  0
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  I say that Russia should normally apologize for Katyn

                  Yes, you walk along the route laid by Susanin for your ancestors ..... what you thought was necessary, did not like it, look in the toilet ....
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    Marek Rozny 16 November 2013 10: 20
                    +2
                    Quote: hert
                    Yes, you walk along the route laid by Susanin for your ancestors ..... what you thought was necessary, did not like it, look in the toilet ....

                    In my opinion, I already wrote here that I am a Kazakh. So do not scare Susanin. The road to where I need to find myself, and I won’t ask others.
                    Secondly, I do not plump like a horse, and accordingly, I do not puke in the toilet. If this is a familiar image for you, then this is your problem.
                    Thirdly, if you think that Russia is acting correctly in relation to the Katyn issue, then do not be surprised why the Poles are annoyed. I would look at you if you received a similar attitude from another state. Themselves do not want to communicate in a human way with the Poles, and treat them like enemies, and in return you get a mirror-like attitude. All around are bad - Poles, Central Asians, Caucasians, Europeans, Turks, Jews, Catholics, Muslims, Ukrainians, Japanese, Hungarians, aliens, neighbors. Around only "envious and ungrateful" ...
                    How will you feel about your colleague at work or a neighbor on the landing, who will constantly sniff at the fact that he is surrounded by some scoundrels, ungrateful creatures, mongrels and envious bastards? I think you will consider that this person is magical to the full head and he is puffed with self-conceit.
                    What news on the site do not take about another country, there will always be a roar of voices: "They are nothing, traitors, ki, ungrateful pigs" ... Maybe it's time to stop before it's too late?
        4. smile
          smile 14 November 2013 15: 34
          +4
          Marek Rozny
          You broadcast to the Poles that if they are adults and they have a conscience, let them not demand from others what they themselves are not going to do. We are tired of the one-goal game. We were already meeting them, what did we get in return? Therefore, let them roll with their claims, lies, ambitions and shamelessness to the dupes.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 15 November 2013 17: 18
            0
            Quote: smile
            You broadcast to the Poles that if they are adults and they have a conscience, let them not demand from others what they themselves are not going to do. We are tired of the one-goal game. We were already meeting them, what did we get in return? Therefore, let them roll with their claims, lies, ambitions and shamelessness to the dupes.

            And I spoke with the Poles on these topics many times. Live. And he swore and put up. The reaction is the same as that of the Russians: "Let them apologize first!" That is why I call the relations between Russia and Poland a kindergarten.
            Z.Y. Russia did not move towards the Poles on the Katyn issue. The question is not closed.
        5. I am
          I am 14 November 2013 22: 46
          +1
          If the Russians apologize, then the Poles will be the same as the Germans during the assault by the Soviet troops of the Polish city of Poznan during the Great Patriotic War.
      2. Mhpv
        Mhpv 14 November 2013 12: 41
        +5
        Quote: Alexander I
        And Poland has nothing to apologize to Russia for? Are they smooth and fluffy?

        Well, what are you right, these are "romantic" natures:
        The military gulag of the second Commonwealth includes more than a dozen concentration camps, prisons, marshalling yards, concentration centers and various military facilities like the Brest Fortress (there were four camps) and Modlin. Strzalkowo (in the west of Poland between Poznan and Warsaw), Pikulice (in the south, near Peremyshl), Dombe (near Krakow), Wadowice (in the south of Poland), Tuchole, Shipturno (Szczypiorno), Bialystok, Baranovichi, Molodechino, Vilno, Pinsk , Bobruisk, Grodno, Minsk, Pulawy, Povonzki, Lancut (Lancut), Kovel, Stryi (in the western part of Ukraine), Schelkovo ... Tens of thousands of Red Army soldiers who found themselves in Polish captivity after the Soviet-Polish war 1919 were found here -1920 years

        The attitude of the Polish side towards them was very clearly expressed by the commandant of the camp in Brest, who declared in 1919: “You Bolsheviks wanted to take our lands away from us - well, I will give you land. I have no right to kill you, but I will feed you that way, that you yourself will die "(1). Words did not diverge from deeds. According to the memoirs of one of those who arrived from the Polish captivity in March 1920, "We did not receive bread for 13 days, on day 14, it was at the end of August, we received about 4 pounds of bread, but very rotten, moldy ... The patients were not treated and they died in dozens ... "(7). From a report on the visit to the camps in Brest-Litovsk by representatives of the International Committee of the Red Cross in the presence of a doctor from the French military mission in October 1919:

        http://www.politforums.ru/historypages/1333458101.html
        And here is also an analysis of the pogroms organized by the Poles:
        http://ruskline.ru/opp/2013/11/13/polsha_kak_zhertva_pogromnoj_spesi/
    4. Fox
      Fox 14 November 2013 11: 19
      +6
      Quote: Marek Rozny
      Poles - people are adequate and sensitive. If they see a normal attitude on the part of Russia, they will instantly forget about their claims and grievances. Well, if Russia ignores all the sensitive issues in the history of Soviet-Polish relations, then the Poles will continue to water the neighbor. And they never stop.

      What is abnormal in the present Poles from Russia?
      What can they have in the present claims and grievances against Russia?
      What other position should modern Russia (or its leader) take to close the fecal fountain of the descendants of Brother Lyakh?
    5. IRBIS
      IRBIS 14 November 2013 11: 35
      15
      Quote: Marek Rozny
      It is very strange to see that two close people - the Russians and the Poles, will delight in the joy of the same Germans or Anglo-Saxons.

      Do not compare the Poles with the Russian - this, personally, jars me. I don't look like a Pole !!! Neither character, nor culture, nor anything! And the definition of the Poles as "Slavs" does not make them close to us. These are our eternal enemies, even worse than the Germans.
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 11: 53
        -2
        Quote: IRBIS
        Do not compare the Poles with the Russian - this, personally, warps me. I do not look like a Pole !!! Neither character, nor culture, nor anything!

        Well, if you have Finno-Ugric or Tatar origin, then of course you will be different from the Pole. But even so, not very much.
        Quote: IRBIS
        These are our eternal enemies, even worse than the Germans.

        Russians and Poles are two twin brothers, figuring out which of them is more "cool and worthy". The Germans, from the moment they faced the Slavs, began to physically destroy or assimilate them. It is for this reason that the Slavic tribes moved from West to East, reaching the borders of modern Ukraine and Belarus fifteen hundred years ago. The process of forced Germanization of the Slavs continued until the collapse of Austria-Hungary in the 20th century. An Englishman and a German can fight each other, but they will never consider each other subhuman. But they perceive the Slavs as the "annoying misunderstanding" in their Lebensraum (now they say "geopolitics" instead), and they perceive it as such. The Slavic borders are constantly rolling back and rolling back to the east. By placing a fence between Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and Poland, you will accelerate the process of Germanization of the Slavs living west of the Bug, then west of the Dnieper, then west of the Volga. This is not done overnight, but in the mentality of the "German" ("Anglo-Saxon") nothing has changed - like the pearls "nah Osten", they will continue to grind until they receive the riches of Siberia, which the Russians "unfairly" own, from their point of view vision.
        1. IS-80
          IS-80 14 November 2013 13: 52
          +3
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          An Englishman and a German can fight each other, but they will never consider each other subhuman. But they perceived the Slavs as an "annoying misunderstanding" in their Lebensraum


          This is apparently their complex, which has remained from the time when they fled in skins with stone axes along the Roman fortifications, and the Romans mercilessly destroyed them.
        2. IRBIS
          IRBIS 14 November 2013 13: 55
          +8
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          Russians and Poles are two twin brothers,

          Their "brothers" in the ravine are eating the horse!
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          The Germans, on the other hand, as soon as they encountered the Slavs, began to physically destroy or assimilate them.

          Come on?! And who invited the Teutonic Order to protect and conquer the Prussians? Not Slav Poles? Who conquered and destroyed whom?
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          Well, if you have Finno-Ugric or Tatar origin, then of course you will be different from the Pole.

          I talked about character. And more about the age-old hatred of the Poles, which is almost at the genetic level. Prostitute country. And populated by citizens of the same social stratum.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 14 November 2013 14: 01
            0
            Quote: IRBIS
            Their "brothers" in the ravine are eating the horse!

            I have not lost a single person during the whole war. And in the ravine carrion yourself burst
            1. IRBIS
              IRBIS 14 November 2013 16: 36
              0
              Quote: Spade
              I have not lost a single person during the whole war.

              Sorry, what’s this for you?
              Quote: Spade
              And in the ravine carrion yourself burst

              Are you a Pole?
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 14 November 2013 17: 27
                +2
                Quote: IRBIS
                Are you a Pole?

                I am the Grodno Belarus. So, on the eighth of the Poles. Everything, damn it, is much more complicated than you think.
                1. I am
                  I am 14 November 2013 22: 56
                  -1
                  Pan wielki znawca polskiej historii i polskiej mentalności? Proszę mi powiedzieć, jak należy się zwracać z szacunkiem do dziewczyny-córki Sowieckiego oficera z sąsiedniej części?
                  1. IRBIS
                    IRBIS 15 November 2013 09: 42
                    0
                    Pan just knows the history of his state well. And in this story, Poland has never been our ally, but always tried to snatch a piece under the general guise.
          2. Oberst_71
            Oberst_71 14 November 2013 14: 45
            +1
            even Lenin unraveled Poland. calling it a political prostitute! Being between Germany and Russia, she developed a huge inferiority complex. she also bites the Germans constantly. although they are silent already. in one word just Krylov's fable
          3. smile
            smile 14 November 2013 15: 37
            +2
            IRBIS
            There is another expression - the wolves went to them in the ravine srrrr ... we went. :)))
          4. I am
            I am 14 November 2013 22: 53
            +1
            Their "brothers" in the ravine are eating the horse!

            How else to eat up? Strange, in my opinion 20 years ago they had already eaten it, and now they are swelling with hunger, and they think that it is from their own greatness.

            Most Poles are petty and vile. BUT !!! among them there are and were decent, those who treated Russians well. Making all Poles love Russia, and not your own pocket, can only be done by placing our tank at every intersection.
        3. Lopatov
          Lopatov 14 November 2013 14: 29
          0
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          Russians and Poles are two twin brothers, figuring out which of them is more "cool and worthy".

          Here are right, the rest is fabrication.
        4. I am
          I am 14 November 2013 22: 49
          0
          The family is not without a freak, but such brothers must be beaten constantly so as not to forget their place on the rug under the stove.
    6. edge
      edge 14 November 2013 11: 39
      10
      Quote: Marek Rozny
      Poles - people are adequate and sensitive.

      but I don’t like that they starved 80 Red Army men and still haven’t apologized that until 000 they (defensive Polish intelligence) organized the destruction of my ethnic group in the border areas, that in 1936, 1941 160 psi (Anders army) - armed, dressed, shoe ran away through Iran to the Britons ........ and, what, now I kiss them in a hickey angry
      1. Marek Rozny
        Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 12: 17
        -10 qualifying.
        Well, so declassify the Katyn documents, recognize them as victims of repression, normally bring the matter to the end so that the Poles calm down. And then demand from the Poles that they apologize for the prisoners of war of the Soviet-Polish war.
        And then as a kindergarten, by golly.
        1. Djozz
          Djozz 14 November 2013 12: 41
          +7
          And you are not afraid that the declassified Katyn documents will reveal the truth, which does not correspond to Polish expectations about the "execution" of the Poles by the NKVD. By the way, the Poles were shot with German weapons, cartridges of the year of release, the end of 40, their hands were tied with paper twine, which was not produced in the USSR, both on the territory of the operating pioneer camp "Oblsbekassy", and next to the rest house of the NKVD workers, like in the morning choli get up and shoot pshek and then for breakfast!
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 12: 55
            -7
            Quote: Djozz
            And you are not afraid that the declassified Katyn documents will reveal the truth, which does not correspond to Polish expectations about the "execution" of Poles by the NKVD

            If the materials said that the Germans did it, then Putin and Yeltsin would never have thought of blushing for Katyn. In addition, the Chief Military Prosecutor's Office of Russia confirmed that the shooting was carried out by the Soviet side.

            Quote: Djozz
            By the way, the Poles were shot with German weapons, the cartridges were manufactured in the end of the 40th, the hands were tied up with paper twine in the USSR

            "... Were mainly used pistols" Walter "and" Browning "chambered for" Browning "caliber 7,65 mm (to a lesser extent 6,35 mm). ... At present, enough evidence and indirect evidence has been collected that these cartridges were used in pistols from Walter or Mauser, which were used by NKVD officers during executions.42 In addition, in the early 1990s, during excavations at the Mednoye NKVD test site near Tver, where, in particular, Poles shot in the Kalinin prison were buried - prisoners of the Ostashkov camp, investigators of the Main Military Prosecutor's Office and Polish researchers found shell casings similar to those in Katyn.
            1. smile
              smile 14 November 2013 15: 48
              +6
              Marek Rozny
              In any case, there is nothing to blush. even if Goebbels told the truth, in any case, compared to the Poles, we would be lambs.
              And so the felbon was constantly with a red face. They acknowledged anything. completely not interested in historical truth. Putin, directly, at your advice, went to meet the Poles for political reasons without telling them about the graves in Smolensk (which are mostly not Poles, but Russians shot by Germans). that this is all a Polish lie. And what did we get in return? The Poles are simply forced to send them to a goddamn grandmother with their false and untenable claims. :)))

              By the way. about the liner is the most obvious example of Polish lies. thank. that, unknowingly, brought this example :)))
              An analysis of the sleeves is irrefutable evidence of our innocence. Read:
              Swede "Katyn, Contemporary History of the Question". The book is solid documents. When you read it. then you will lie about Katyn only to the illiterate - before the rest you will be ashamed. :)))
              The author was involved in developing the position of the Russian Federation in the European Court, where the Poles were denied claims to Russia.
            2. Turkestan
              Turkestan 14 November 2013 17: 34
              +8
              Victims in Katyn were shot not only with pistols but also with heavy machine guns, and the shot NKVD teams used only revolvers and pistols. Goebbels propagandists claimed that the dead were identified by the insignia of the Polish army. But according to the Soviet order of 1931-1941, prisoners of war could not wear insignia.
              Another thing is interesting. Among the captured Poles were young soldiers Wojciech Jaruzelski and Menachem Begin. Subsequently, they reached heights in the political hierarchy: the first became the president of Poland, and the second - the prime minister of Israel. Neither one ever said a word about the involvement of the NKVD in the execution in Katyn. Moreover, Menachem Begin, whom no one could suspect of sympathy for the Stalin era, directly stated that the Poles near Smolensk were killed by the Gestapo.
        2. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 12: 43
          -4
          "Voluminous volume" Red Army men in Polish captivity in 1919-1922. " prepared by the Federal Archival Agency of Russia, the Russian State Military Archives, the State Archives of the Russian Federation, the Russian State Archives of Socio-Economic History and the Polish Directorate General of State Archives on the basis of a bilateral agreement of December 4, 2000.
          ... Due to the lack of comprehensive data in the Soviet archives, Russian historians, publicists and politicians provide a variety of information about the number of Red Army soldiers who died in Polish captivity: figures published in the mass media from the beginning of the 1990s range from 40 to 80 thousand people. For example, in the newspaper Izvestia (2004, December 10 and 22), Chairman of the Committee on Foreign Affairs of the Council of the Federation Mikhail Margelov, and after him the governor of the Kemerovo Region Aman Tuleyev talk about 80 thousand Red Army soldiers who died in Polish camps, referring to Russian historians .
          ... I would like to note the first agreement reached by researchers regarding the number of deaths in the Polish Red Army camps - who died from epidemics, starvation and difficult conditions. Prof. VG Matveev, the author of the introduction by the Russian side, notes: “Based on the average,“ usual ”level of mortality of prisoners of war, which was determined by the sanitary service of the Ministry of Military Affairs of Poland in February 1920 as 7%, the number of deaths in Polish captivity the Red Army would be about 11 thousand. In epidemics, mortality increased to 30%, in some cases - up to 60%. But the epidemics lasted a limited time, they were actively fought with, fearing the release of infectious diseases outside the camps and work teams. Most likely, 18-20 thousand Red Army soldiers died in captivity (12-15% of the total number captured)".
          Prof. Z. Karpus and prof. V. Rezmer in the introduction of the Polish side write: “Based on the above documentary data, it can be argued that for the entire three-year period of stay in Poland (February 1919 - October 1921) no more than 16-17 thousand Russian prisoners of war died in Polish captivity, including about 8 thousand in the camp of Stshalkov, up to 2 thousand in Tukholi and about 6-8 thousand in other camps. The statement that they died more - 60, 80 or 100 thousand, does not find confirmation in the documentation stored in the Polish and Russian civil and military archives".
          These consistent documentary assessments, together with other materials presented in the collection, in my opinion, close the possibility of political speculations on the topic, the problem goes into the category of purely historical - as, probably, it should be for the 85 events of the summer prescription.

          http://www.novpol.ru/?id=498
        3. Walking
          Walking 14 November 2013 12: 46
          +8
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          Quote: Hiking
          Good such excesses are the territories of Danzig, East Prussia and other lands.

          The USSR gave them these lands at the expense of the selected lands in their favor. Brest, Lviv until 1939, as you remember, belonged to Poland. We took their land, and so that they would not be indignant, they were given lands belonging to Germany.
          You are a Kazakhstani, probably there are familiar Poles. I think you know where and when they found themselves in our steppe. These are the descendants of deported Poles from the occupied Polish lands.


          These lands belonged to Russia and Poland captured them as a result of the Soviet-Polish war, so there was just a return.
          As for the Poles in Kazakhstan, first of all they deported those Poles who were not trustworthy, who in the event of war would have been stabbed in the back as the Craiova Army did. So not all of them were white and fluffy. I have Poles I know, both Soviet and Polish, Soviet, who were born and raised in the Union Poles only by passport and not when they didn’t separate themselves from the Russians, at least those that I know, the Poles from Poland were completely different, I had a chance to work with them, they were very enraged that some Russians were above them and getting more. Their self-doubt is big, they put themselves above others.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 13: 44
            -8
            Quote: Hiking
            These lands belonged to Russia

            Brest and Lviv - Russian cities? Under what tsar did they become Russian, or at least become Russian? From the 14th century Lviv was part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, and then the Commonwealth. Then as part of Austria-Hungary. And only in the summer of 1914 this city was captured by the Russian army and held for less than a year. In 1918, when Austria-Hungary collapsed, Western Ukraine declared itself independent and the Polish-Ukrainian war began, as claims on this city were on both sides. As a result, Petlyura surrendered the city to the Poles in exchange for help against the Reds.
            So Poland didn’t take anything from Russia.
            Quote: Hiking
            As for the Poles in Kazakhstan, first of all they deported those Poles who were not trustworthy

            Yes, almost all Poles were chochom sent from the occupied lands deep into the USSR.
            The first mass deportation The civilian population from Western Belarus and Western Ukraine was carried out on February 10, 1940. 141.759 people were subject to eviction, including 52.892 (37,3%) from Western Belarus; from Western Ukraine - 88.867 (62,3%), the vast majority - Poles.
            Second deportation took place on April 13-16, 1940. During it, 26.777 people (8055 families) were repressed in the BSSR, at least 40 thousand in Ukraine.
            Third deportation was carried out in accordance with the decision of the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR No. 497-177ss of April 10, 1940. It began on the night of June 28-29, 1940, and ended on July 2. In total, 76.382 people (25.682 families) recruited, including 22.879 people from the BSSR (7224 families), 53.503 (16.894 families) from Ukraine.
            Fourth deportation: Decree of May 14, 1941.
            The new flow amounted to 96.618 people (including 24.412 people from the BSSR, 72.206 from the Ukrainian SSR), not counting those who were exported from Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia at the same time.
            The second stage of the fourth deportation It was planned for June 26-27, 1941, but the Bolsheviks were prevented by the outbreak of hostilities.
            According to official Soviet data (the Prosecutor General of the USSR Vyshinsky), from November 1939 to June 1941 they were evicted from Polish territories occupied by the USSR 389.382 person (from the BSSR - about 125 thousand, from the USSR - about 264 thousand).
            For example: the number of Poles in Ukraine: 1959–363 thousand, 1979–258 thousand and 1989–219 thousand.
            Among the deportees, 52% (202,5 thousand) were women from 16 years old, 12% (46,7 thousand) were children of both sexes under the age of 16 years. In the echelons along the route of movement and on the ground during the first year about 39 thousand people died.
            The Poles themselves, taking into account others, insist on the figure of 1 million deported Poles (there were not only Poles there, but also Jews and a small part of Ukrainians and Belarusians).
            In short, the Poles really almost all kicked out of the former Poland. Like the Germans from Kaliningrad.
            1. Oberst_71
              Oberst_71 14 November 2013 14: 47
              +3
              Well, the Americans, too, drove all the Japanese and Koreans during the war to a concentration camp. and do not even repent
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 15: 05
                -2
                Quote: Oberst_71
                Well, the Americans, too, drove all the Japanese and Koreans during the war to a concentration camp. and do not even repent

                In 1976, US President Gerald Ford admitted that internment was "wrong."
                In 1983, the "Commission on the Displacement and Internment of Civilians in Wartime" was created in Congress. At the same time, this Commission submitted a report, where internment was called "illegal and caused by racism, not military necessity."
                In 1988, President Ronald Reagan signed a document that apologized on behalf of the US Government for internment caused by "racial prejudice, war hysteria, and political mistakes.". He also signed a decree according to which compensation was paid to every detainee in the amount of $ 20 thousand for a total of $ 1,2 billion.
                On September 27, 1992, $ 400 million was additionally allocated for compensation.
            2. IS-80
              IS-80 14 November 2013 14: 53
              +4
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Brest and Lviv - Russian cities?

              And whose else? Maybe Japanese? Who captured the city of Boleslav the Brave? Who recaptured the city of Yaroslav the Wise? And until the 14th century, unknown people lived there?
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 15: 20
                -1
                Quote: IS-80
                And whose else?

                Quote: IS-80
                And until the 14th century, unknown people lived there?

                Great Moravia (Great Power) - a Slavic state that existed in the years 822–907 on the Middle Danube. During the period of greatest power, it included the territories of modern Hungary, Slovakia, the Czech Republic, as well as Lesser Poland, part of Ukraine and the historical region of Silesia.
                The settlement that preceded the construction of Lviv belonged to the state of Great Moravia. In the 10th century, the city belonged to Poland (King Meshko the First). At the end of the 10th century, the city was captured by Vladimir the Great. Then he was included in the Galicia-Volyn principality. Since the 14th century as part of the ON.
                1. IS-80
                  IS-80 14 November 2013 15: 46
                  +3
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  Great Moravia (Great Power) - a Slavic state that existed in the years 822–907 on the Middle Danube. During the period of greatest power, it included the territories of modern Hungary, Slovakia, the Czech Republic, as well as Lesser Poland, part of Ukraine and the historical region of Silesia.
                  The settlement that preceded the construction of Lviv belonged to the state of Great Moravia. In the 10th century, the city belonged to Poland (King Meshko the First). At the end of the 10th century, the city was captured by Vladimir the Great.


                  From discharge it is possible and supposed. And the first documentary evidence is that he is Russian.
                2. Valentine
                  Valentine 14 November 2013 22: 29
                  +2
                  Lviv was founded by Daniel, Prince of Galich, Volyn, Grand Prince of Kiev from the oldest branch of the Monomakhovich family. So, a priori, it is a Russian city temporarily occupied by militant gutsuls.
              2. Doctorleg
                Doctorleg 14 November 2013 19: 04
                +3
                Quote: IS-80
                Quote: Marek Rozny
                Brest and Lviv - Russian cities?

                And whose else? Maybe Japanese? Who captured the city of Boleslav the Brave? Who recaptured the city of Yaroslav the Wise? And until the 14th century, unknown people lived there?

                Do not appeal to such ancient times. This is a double win. Everyone once won something, someone somewhere once lived. So you can delve into such ancient times that you can’t rake
            3. smile
              smile 14 November 2013 15: 05
              +3
              continued comment



              And about the lack of freedom of Poland in Soviet times, so now there is the same lack of freedom. only the vector has changed.

              So, despite all this, the Poles do not consider it necessary to repent for a completely Nazi style of behavior against Russians in the 20-40s, for almost 80 thousand tortured prisoners of war, for tens of burned Ukrainian and Belarusian villages for tens of thousands of executed peasants who did not like, that the land was taken from them for the benefit of the besiegers, the education in their native language was forbidden, because they were kept for second-class people ... for a lot of things ..... I know what I'm talking about, my grandmother is just from a family of such besiegers , her dad and uncles received the lands taken from the local people in the Vilno region captured by Zheligovsky. They entered the army in the expectation that they would be given land and peasants in Ukraine.

              So, dear, you better sing your peace songs to the Poles - they need them more, and they really should repent and dot the "Yo". the word behind them - after all, it is they who run over us, and not we run into them. The more we went to meet them, the more demands they made on us. Enough, were, they discouraged us.
              By the way. Do you know WHAT is their Institute of Historical Memory? This organization is clearly copied from the Nazis, in any case, it declares the same attitude towards the Russians. like the Nazis to the Jews, here you are broadcasting, persuade- let them repent and not incite ethnic hatred.
              1. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker 14 November 2013 16: 00
                +6
                Quote: smile
                So, despite all this, the Poles do not consider it necessary to repent for a completely Nazi style of behavior against Russians in the 20-40s, for almost 80 thousand tortured prisoners of war, for tens of burned Ukrainian and Belarusian villages for tens of thousands of executed peasants who did not like, that the land was taken from them in favor of the besiegers, the education in their native language was forbidden, because they were held for second-class people ... a lot for that ....

                It would not hurt to remember the hundreds of thousands of "missing" German civilians on the way from the eastern regions of Germany in May-June 1945, transferred to the newly-minted Polish state, which the "peaceful" Poles did not consider shameful to rob, kill, rape.
                In the mid-60s of the last century, a real wave of anti-symmetry swept through the Polish People’s Republic with the tacit support of the government. Not one thousand Jews, subjects of socialist Poland, were forced to leave the country.
                1. Bagatur
                  Bagatur 14 November 2013 23: 10
                  +1
                  For Silesia and more than 450 km on the Baltic Sea, Stalin should have a monument erected! Not to mention the deportation of more than 5 million ghans ... Polska got the entire industry of the Silesian industrial region, mines, porters, etc. We have lost the amount of `190 000 sq. Km. to the East, for that they received a quality of 114 with a colossal value for their consistent revival .. And for the fact that thanks to the Holocaust and the ethnic cleansing of the Germans after 000 they received a homogeneous nation and no nationalities ... Only in Yugoslavia it is necessary to look at what could be thought of what could it will happen if Polsch had after 1945 1989-8 million German population. As Churchill said after learning from Stalin what would happen to the post-war borders of Polsh, "can a Polish turkey swallow it?"
            4. ultra
              ultra 14 November 2013 17: 04
              +1
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Brest and Lviv - Russian cities?

              The ancient name of Brest is Berestye. The city was first mentioned in the “Tale of Bygone Years” under 1019 in connection with the struggle of the Prince of Turov and the Great Kiev Svyatopolk Vladimirovich with his brother, while Novgorod Prince Yaroslav the Wise for the Grand Prince of Kiev. Do you want to look for Lviv or will you search for it yourself?
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 19: 08
                -3
                Quote: ultra
                The ancient name of Brest is Berestye.

                Dregovichi lived on this land - the ancestors of Belarusians, not Russians.
                Berestye is not a Russian word, but a Slavic one. By the way, a city with the same name is in Poland (Brest-Kuyavsk).
                Brest the whole history until the 18th century was a part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and Poland (and until the 14th century it passed from the hands of the Galician-Volyn princes to the hands of Polish princes and vice versa). And only with the conquest of Poland in the 18th century, Brest became part of Russia.
                About Lviv, I have unsubscribed earlier. Did not see your post. My Mongoloid snout beats for all the Poles here, I can’t keep up with all the messages)))
                Here’s the paradox, the Kazakh calls on the Russians to find a common language with the Slav brothers ... Well, at least a Bulgarian has appeared here, who also advocates that the Slavs stop biting.
                Nobody in the know, the Poles do not issue awards for Internet protection of Poland? And how alone I protect Polska from these bearded "barbarians", my hands are already up to the elbows in Internet blood.
                Z.Y. Eeeeeh, I'm sorry I'm not a Rokossovsky Pole, otherwise he would have defeated you in an instant)
                З.З.Ы. Tired of proving the Russians that they need to make peace with the Poles or Ukrainians. They will devour you one by one. In 200 years, German children will study about assimilated lutichs and Poles with Russians, who argued which of them is "more arrogant" and "brighter" until they turned into Komarowitz and Ivanovstein, proud of belonging to the Germanic race.
                1. Semurg
                  Semurg 14 November 2013 20: 29
                  +2
                  [quote = Marek Rozny] [quote = ultra]
                  About Lviv, I have unsubscribed earlier. Did not see your post. My Mongoloid snout beats for all the Poles here, I can’t keep up with all the messages)))
                  Here’s the paradox, the Kazakh calls on the Russians to find a common language with the Slav brothers ... Well, at least a Bulgarian has appeared here, who also advocates that the Slavs stop biting.
                  Nobody in the know, the Poles do not issue awards for Internet protection of Poland? And how alone I protect Polska from these bearded "barbarians", my hands are already up to the elbows in Internet blood.
                  Z.Y. Eeeeeh, I'm sorry I'm not a Rokossovsky Pole, otherwise he would have defeated you in an instant)
                  З.З.Ы. Tired of proving the Russians that they need to make peace with the Poles or Ukrainians. They will devour you one by one. In 200 years, German children will study about assimilated lutichi and Poles with Russians, who argued which of them is "more arrogant" and "brighter" until they turned into Komarowitz and Ivanovstein, proud of belonging to the German race. [/ Quote]
                  Hold on, brother your nickname obliges to explain Polish issues, especially cool position of Poles protects "Asian muzzle".
                  1. smile
                    smile 14 November 2013 23: 32
                    +1
                    Semurg
                    Greetings!
                    That you need to live together, you say absolutely true.
                    Good. Let's see what happened the last quarter century.

                    Ours have repented of what is possible and what is not possible at the highest level and repeatedly, even that which they did not. No claims to the Poles without putting forward.

                    Did you do it right? In your opinion - right.

                    We go further - how did the Poles behave in response?
                    -Total Russophobia. Moreover, at the state level. A lot of claims and bills have been put forward. getting ready for the nomination even more. moreover, one of the main arguments is that your presidents there recognized your guilt .... well, etc.

                    What should we conclude?
                    Be honest, please.
                    Should we continue to repent, begin to pay and enjoy the state policy of Russophobia and new rounds of claims from a country that is more guilty before us than we are before it, and which belongs to a hostile military bloc and pursues a hostile foreign policy towards us?
                    Can we even kneel in the hope that they will forgive us? so they won’t forgive- any concessions to them only lead to an increase in claims.

                    So I'm really interested in what you answer. Only, I'm afraid you don’t want to answer ... your goals are clearly different. rather than reconcile peoples ... :))) I guessed? :)))
                    1. Semurg
                      Semurg 15 November 2013 08: 06
                      +1
                      smile mutually. Eka bent to reconcile peoples, for me the burden is not lifting laughing . Marek writes in the joint history of Russia and Poland there was everything and that the Russians and the Poles are similar, and then they themselves choose to be friends or quarrels.
                2. IS-80
                  IS-80 14 November 2013 21: 10
                  +2
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  By the way, a city with the same name is in Poland (Brest-Kuyavsk).


                  Well, here is the proof of Brest-Kiev.

                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  Brest the whole history until the 18th century was a part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and Poland (and until the 14th century it passed from the hands of the Galician-Volyn princes to the hands of Polish princes and vice versa). And only with the conquest of Poland in the 18th century, Brest became part of Russia.


                  So what? We returned what was ours.


                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  Here’s the paradox, the Kazakh calls on the Russians to find a common language with the Slav brothers ... Well, at least a Bulgarian has appeared here, who also advocates that the Slavs stop biting.
                  Nobody in the know, the Poles do not issue awards for Internet protection of Poland? And how alone I protect Polska from these bearded "barbarians", my hands are already up to the elbows in Internet blood.



                  Thank you, how touching. You would like to campaign there on the Polish forum. Hey hey, there’s a more accurate Kalmyk steppe with barbarians. laughing
                  It turns out badly. They won’t give a reward.
        4. IS-80
          IS-80 14 November 2013 13: 37
          +5
          An interesting approach to business. First, plead guilty without guilt, then maybe the proud Poles recognize something there regarding the Eastern barbarians, or maybe they don’t. Although what am I talking about, this is a delicate political move, not a kindergarten, so to speak. what recourse
        5. goldfinger
          goldfinger 14 November 2013 14: 11
          +1
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          Well, so declassify the Katyn documents, recognize them as victims of repression, normally bring the matter to the end so that the Poles calm down. And then already demand from the Poles that they apologize for the prisoners of war of the Soviet-Polish war. And then, as a kindergarten, by golly.

          From Minsk. Marek, remember the biblical words "The voice of one crying in the wilderness ..." For twenty years, I am afraid, irreversible processes have taken place in many heads. Take it easy. Nationalism is often a winning card, a trump card. But, .... for the time being. And then it turns into a cocked grenade in your bosom.
          1. IS-80
            IS-80 14 November 2013 14: 40
            0
            This grenade is in your head and apparently it has already exploded.
            1. goldfinger
              goldfinger 14 November 2013 16: 24
              +2
              Quote: IS-80
              This grenade is in your head and apparently it has already exploded.

              From Minsk. You are wrong, dear. And in a nightmare we will not see Pugachevo, Biryulyovo, Pikalevo, and other "ovo", lezginki in your squares, marches of Limonovites, neo-fascists, ridge, hammers and sickles, beatings of unfortunate Uzbeks, corrupt policemen, and so on, so on, so forth. Pip your tongue! Do not jinx it!
              1. IS-80
                IS-80 14 November 2013 21: 16
                +1
                It is you and others like you who cultivate Nazism. Fighting hard with him where he is not. And turning a blind eye to his manifestation where he is.
              2. IS-80
                IS-80 14 November 2013 21: 21
                +1
                Quote: goldfinger
                And in a nightmare we do not see


                Bear with a little left for you, the zmagars will help you.
        6. smile
          smile 14 November 2013 15: 43
          +3
          Marek Rozny
          All that could, declassified, we didn’t shoot. What to declassify? What didn’t shoot? And how will such a document look like? The fact is that there are no documents about the execution. Well, no, that's all, that's why. as the event was not. And this is the most important thing.
          Here you can declassify the documents that the Kazakhs do not eat Russian on an industrial scale. If you do not declassify, then what? Are eating? :)))
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 17: 00
            -4
            Quote: smile
            All that could, declassified, we didn’t shoot. What to declassify? What didn’t shoot? And how will such a document look like? The fact is that there are no documents about the execution. Well, no, that's all, that's why. as the event was not. And this is the most important thing.

            Russia has long officially recognized that the execution of Poles was the work of the NKVD. Another thing is that many Russians do not like this, because it does not fit into the popular print: "We only distributed rays of good to everyone."
            1. Cat
              Cat 14 November 2013 17: 10
              +4
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Russia has long officially recognized that the execution of the Poles is the work of the NKVD.

              admitted, apologized at the highest level, the memorial was repulsed ... what else is needed?
              If the issue is monetary compensation, announce the amount and compare it with the amount of money that the USSR poured into the economy of the NDP during the period from 1945 to 1991. Then contact the Central Bank of the Russian Federation - there they will call you the account number to which the difference should be transferred. Total and business.
              Or do the Yasnovemoglasny have any other, more different claims?
            2. Bakht
              Bakht 14 November 2013 17: 15
              +2
              The funny thing is that Poland lost all documents on the Katyn case and at one time asked for new copies. This is clearly a diagnosis. So, to prove the authenticity of documents is almost impossible. But how could the Poles lose SUCH documents? Only in one case - if they were false and could not be presented to independent researchers.
              1. smile
                smile 14 November 2013 20: 28
                +4
                Bakht
                This was done intentionally. Accidentally lose that. what the entire reconnaissance apparatus of the state and the specially created Institute of Historical Memory are working on is impossible. They lost because they took away a lot of material evidence that they allegedly found in the graves on their own, under the guarantee of return for research by ours - over 95 percent allegedly lost.
                Lost what disproves their version. but there were extra material evidence that was not present in the inventory. And they do not provide them to us for research, they are afraid. that the examination will reveal a fake.
                Like this. A fake of pure water. Yeah. and also the originals of some documents, supposedly the originals received from our GWP, were repeatedly published ... it turns out. that the number of originals of different contents of the same piece of paper reaches three or more ... :))) here is such proof ... Goebbels is very dissatisfied with the stupidity of the students. :)))
            3. 11111mail.ru
              11111mail.ru 14 November 2013 18: 08
              +1
              Well, then return to Germany "Dolny Szlensk" and other lands up to Wroclaw. THERE WILL NOT BE MORE "FROM CAN TO CAN"!
            4. smile
              smile 14 November 2013 20: 19
              +3
              Marek Rozny
              The fact that Elbon and Gorbachev recognized Goebbels and his Polish supporters was right, and Putin did not begin to wander about political considerations, does not mean anything - all these statements were made before the end of the investigation. Even during the perestroika period and with the Elbon. when GWP even falsified documents. Fulfilling the order of the perestroika, evidence of the execution was not found.
              Currently, the official position has changed, that's all.
              Well. and then. that some Goebels supporters (you, for example). I do not like. that the version crumbled to dust even in the European court. so we are not to blame.

              Marek, seriously. without jackets, I beg you, read the book by V. Shved "Katyn. Modern history of the issue." The book is academic, a lot of documents, no screams, calm presentation. The author was involved in the development of our position in the Euroskde. who refused to satisfy the claims of the Poles.

              I understand that not all Goebbels supporters like to read documents that smear their argument in the dust, but I read what the Poles write about Katyn - you should read it too.

              By the way, you can also read Mukhin's "Katyn meanness", the book is valuable in that it fully sets out the position of the Poles and their argumentation, in great detail, sometimes literally a third of the materials in the book are Polish. And no stone was left of her.
              The bad thing is that the author is not shy in expressions - this greatly reduces the value of the book. But it perfectly complements the Swede.
            5. I am
              I am 14 November 2013 23: 03
              0
              Polacy w 1939 roku też przyznali, że to oni napadli na niemiecką radiostację i brutalnie zabili prawdziwych aryjczyków!
            6. Michael_59
              Michael_59 16 November 2013 11: 32
              0
              If the EBN is often heavily drunk and radio-controlled from overseas, the most shameful President of the Russian Federation, for whom it is REALLY ashamed, and then the successors of his "deeds" admitted something - this does not mean that it was so. They did not recognize a lot of things, but it is. Not an argument never, in short.
        7. IRBIS
          IRBIS 14 November 2013 16: 45
          +3
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          Well, so declassify the Katyn documents, recognize them as victims of repression, normally bring the matter to the end so that the Poles calm down.

          Well, our Poles were shot. For what to repent? After all, those who at one time participated in one way or another in the campaign against Russia and other dubious events were killed. The rest went to the camps. Or did they have to issue tickets to the Crimea for their "adventures in Belarus and Ukraine in the early 20s?"
          By the way, why do Jews insistently keep silent about the fact that the Poles started the genocide of the Jews, just on that campaign? Cut out by villages. And in 38, without troubles, they shot Ukrainians from Transcarpathia (under the partition of Czechoslovakia).
          So who should confess what?
        8. ultra
          ultra 14 November 2013 16: 57
          +2
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          Well, so declassify the Katyn documents, recognize them as victims of repression, normally bring the matter to the end so that the Poles calm down.

          Do you believe that? The hostility between Russia and Poland did not begin with Katyn and will not end with it!
        9. 11111mail.ru
          11111mail.ru 14 November 2013 17: 59
          +2
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          And then demand from the Poles that they apologize for the prisoners of war of the Soviet-Polish war.

          What was primary and what was secondary? No, only after you!
          1. Doctorleg
            Doctorleg 14 November 2013 19: 09
            0
            Quote: 11111mail.ru
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            And then demand from the Poles that they apologize for the prisoners of war of the Soviet-Polish war.

            What was primary and what was secondary? No, only after you!

            What was said - we are very similar to them
            1. 11111mail.ru
              11111mail.ru 15 November 2013 17: 45
              0
              Quote: DoctorOleg
              What was said - we are very similar to them

              Do not, "DoctorOleg", confuse fresh and salted! "Let the schismatics perish and!" - a favorite saying of the noble ones. We were not the first to start. There was once such a proverb: "the first whip to the closer" ... So that: only after you!
        10. I am
          I am 14 November 2013 23: 00
          0
          A niech polska wikileaks ujawni, z kolei dokumenty o udziale armii krajowej w obronie tzw twierdzy "Orzeszek". I przy okazji, jak właściwie nazywał się ten gród w mieście Poznań?
    7. zub46
      zub46 14 November 2013 13: 26
      -1
      I fully support your comments and suggestions.
    8. smile
      smile 14 November 2013 15: 02
      +6
      Marek Rozny
      Hello.
      Your quote:
      “If modern Russia did something like that, then relations would normalize. Polyakov is not interested in the history of the Commonwealth, but they do not like that in Russia they overly idealize Soviet influence on Poland and at the same time categorically denies the negative consequences of Polish-Soviet relations. Katyn, violent Sovietization, exile of Poles to Kazakhstan and Siberia, absolute foreign policy (and domestic political) lack of freedom of Poland in Soviet times - these are topics that are worth discussing and dotting the i's. "

      There is a feeling of communication with the Poles and an attempt to feel a soul mate. :))) In this quote, you are fundamentally wrong. Drastically. I won’t be fussing about the other conclusions, as you have stated something nevertheless true, and it’s not fundamental.
      So.
      1. The current leadership in the USSR and Russia in the person of a hunchback and an élbon recognized all the historical claims of the Poles and all the blame for all the troubles of the Polish people, including Goebbels’s fiction for our shooting in the Goat Mountains. Even Putin, for political reasons in Smolensk, indistinctly sympathized with them about Katyn and said that this was our common misfortune, and that they supposed to be reconciled and calm down.

      What have we achieved? The explosion of Russophobia! Ordinary Poles generally do not know much about Katyn, and not everyone likes that all the accusations are based on the materials of the Nazis, and here we ourselves admitted.
      This only encouraged the Poles to make multi-billion dollar claims for amounts comparable to their budget. Not only that, our participation in the execution, and the documents concocted by the perestroika, is a fake (this is indicated by the publication at the request of the Poles (which is generally nonsense) as much as three different originals of a piece of paper, which is considered the main documentary evidence of our guilt proof). So this lie only contributes to the deterioration of our relations, because it is used from Russophobia to the fullest.
      Further, the expulsion of the Poles, but what could be done if the Polish government in exile in November 39 declared war on us? A real sabotage war unfolded on the liberated Ukrainian and Belarusian land with the help of the sent Polish groups, which we managed to cope only in the spring of 40 years.
      Of the approximately 400 thousand prisoners, however, we immediately sent home about 300 thousand. Of the remaining, about 600-800 people were shot for war crimes - are you aware that the Poles behaved with the Russians in much the same way that the Nazis and Polish concentration camps were no less deadly? So, ALL the rest were released into the Anders army. Those who did not want to fight, but there were also many of them, remained where they were settled. In Kazakhstan, for example, it depended solely on their will. Moreover, they were agitated and asked to join there. :))) but not everyone wished.
      Further, in the ranks of the Wehrmacht with weapons in their hands more than 60 thousand Poles were captured. It is more than Italians. Not impressive? And this despite the fact that from the age of 43 a prisoner of war card was not even put on a captured Pole if he entered our Polish Army. So, don’t pour hypocritical tears, don’t ...

      To be continued
    9. Tartary
      Tartary 14 November 2013 15: 08
      +4
      Quote: Marek Rozny
      but what prevents Putin from coming to this place and lighting a candle in a Christian way?

      What prevents one of the Polish presidents from coming to the monument to Minin and Pozharsky, kneeling there, weaving Christian forehead several times into the paving stones of Red Square ??

      And the Poles should be met peacefully, and escorted to the station / airport in a dense ring of silent and gloomy Russian "fans" ...

      Silently keep safe and sound - let the horror be tested for their villains to the fullest, the seed inside the dense ring of marching strong guys ... Yes, and not directly, but by lengthening the path deliberately ...
      1. Bagatur
        Bagatur 14 November 2013 17: 52
        +4
        While the Slavs of Soritsa and argue, who did what to whom ... all our friends are great joy ... But unfortunately, the end is not visible .... Soritsa Poles from Russians, Bulgarians from Serbs, now even Ukrainians have taken up ... This is ambition and will destroy us!
    10. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 14 November 2013 15: 30
      +6
      Quote: Marek Rozny
      The only difference in mentality between Poles and Russians is that Poles are more religious

      Let me, Marek, make a correction. Due to the nature of my work, I often visit the Polish seaside cities: Gdansk, Gdynia, Szczecin. He discussed the topic of embracing the current young and middle generations by religion. The interlocutors, the Poles, who also often visit our Baltic enclave, believe that in this regard the situation in Poland and Russia is similar - the church has remained in the background for everyone who is between 15 and 30 (or so). A generation of devout Poles is leaving, as is the generation of those who saw a lot of good and useful things from the "radetsky gazdek". Information warfare affects all young people around the planet. Deafening and falling education levels are a problem for the whole of Europe.
      1. 11111mail.ru
        11111mail.ru 14 November 2013 18: 13
        0
        Quote: stalkerwalker
        "radetsky's guazdeka"

        "zvetek radetskiy" - type: Soviet Union
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 14 November 2013 18: 15
          +3
          Quote: 11111mail.ru
          "zvetek radetskiy" - type: Soviet Union

          Something like that...
    11. Setrac
      Setrac 14 November 2013 20: 08
      +1
      Quote: Marek Rozny
      The only difference in mentality between Poles and Russians is that Poles are more religious.

      The fate of 80000 captured Red Army soldiers interrupts all your laudatory deferambs to the Poles.
    12. Shur
      Shur 17 November 2013 00: 33
      0
      They perceive apologies as nothing more than weakness. The very essence of centuries of incited Poles in Russophobia. Even the LADY said, "Forever we will not apologize." Judging by the flag, you are from Kazakhstan. I am just working with a Russian who has escaped from there. And no need to throw up, I understand. There are interests of the country and they are in normal relations, nothing more. You can't be cute. Imagine that the Chinese will speak out about you as Poles about the Russians and dream of forbidding Kazakhs to speak Kazakh? Ahh .. probably not believe it?
  • Proud.
    Proud. 14 November 2013 09: 00
    +5
    And what do we have ahead of the "global", in Russia? I'm talking about international competitions. I don't take into account the Olympic Games, although there, I think, the Poles will run on "bream". But football ..., 2018. Or Do the Poles think that they will forget 2012? I strongly doubt it. And in the Poles, I think, not only the fans will note.
  • RBLip
    RBLip 14 November 2013 09: 00
    10
    ... an eternal political prostitute ...
    1. edge
      edge 14 November 2013 11: 44
      +2
      Quote: RBLip
      .. evening political prostitute ..

      turn on the word political good
    2. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 14 November 2013 13: 37
      +3
      Quote: RBLip
      ... an eternal political prostitute ...


      Exceptionally true words! good
      1. Bagatur
        Bagatur 14 November 2013 17: 55
        +3
        Is it really bad that the Leopard 2A4 was transplanted? If I had money, I also wanted the Bulgarian army for such vehicles ... T-72yvreme long ago ... On the old woman give a brand new skirt, all the same, the beauty will not ..
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 14 November 2013 19: 52
          0
          Quote: bagatura
          Is it really bad that they transplanted 2A4 to Leopard?


          Well, Challenger 2 is even cooler.



          Quote: bagatura
          If I had money, I also wanted the Bulgarian army for such vehicles ... T-72 has been a long time past ...


          Well, for the Bulgarian army - a good option to change to the "Leopard", and if Bulgaria did not fit into NATO, then the obvious solution would be to replace the T-72 with the T-90SM.

        2. builder
          builder 14 November 2013 20: 01
          0
          Quote: bagatura
          If I had money, I also wanted the Bulgarian army for such cars ...

          Transfer to the tanks of those you lie under.
          1. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker 14 November 2013 20: 19
            +6
            Quote: stroitel
            Transfer to the tanks of those you lie under

            And you can borrow from the Baltic states: for a parade, for exercises ... laughing
            1. builder
              builder 14 November 2013 20: 24
              +1
              Also for Bulgaria is a good option if someone lends money.
              1. builder
                builder 14 November 2013 20: 36
                +1
                The second option
                1. stalkerwalker
                  stalkerwalker 14 November 2013 20: 48
                  +4
                  Quote: stroitel
                  The second option

                  It could even be ... laughing
            2. Lopatov
              Lopatov 14 November 2013 20: 32
              +2
              Dear, this is not a reason for jokes. Our tanks NEVER and UNDER ANYONE. We ...... better die
              1. builder
                builder 14 November 2013 20: 50
                +1
                Dear, you probably did not understand my comment.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 14 November 2013 21: 01
                  +1
                  Maybe I didn’t understand. But we would rather die than surrender. It is so?
                  1. builder
                    builder 14 November 2013 21: 22
                    +2
                    We are more likely to win than die.
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 14 November 2013 21: 33
                      +2
                      We'd rather die than lose. Seriously. Even if there are no options to win. Traditions are such, and not for us to fight them.
                      1. Valentine
                        Valentine 14 November 2013 22: 49
                        +3
                        We will die, not die, but we must win. For Russians, death is no excuse.
                    2. RBLip
                      RBLip 15 November 2013 10: 03
                      +1
                      Quote: stroitel
                      We are more likely to win than die.

                      mattresses: do it or die!
                      Russians: die, but do it! soldier
          2. Karlsonn
            Karlsonn 14 November 2013 20: 24
            +2
            Quote: stroitel
            Transfer to the tanks of those you lie under.


            Why be rude to a stranger?
            1. builder
              builder 14 November 2013 20: 42
              +1
              What is rude?
              Bulgarian officers on maneuvers near the city of Nova Zagora 1942.
              1. Bagatur
                Bagatur 14 November 2013 23: 20
                0
                So what? Where problems ... the form does not like))) I’m calm, I’m not offended ... everyone has their own opinion ...
              2. Karlsonn
                Karlsonn 15 November 2013 03: 43
                +1
                Quote: stroitel
                Bulgarian officers on maneuvers near the city of Nova Zagora 1942 year


                Give me at least one example (apart from the alleged use of Bulgarian pilots against the Black Sea Fleet of the USSR, it is extremely doubtful)
                , fire, between the Bulgarians and the soldiers of our army.
                1. Bagatur
                  Bagatur 16 November 2013 11: 39
                  +2
                  You will not find! They didn’t fight .... The Soviet ambassador sat in Sofia right up to September 5.09.1944, XNUMX when Stalin declared war on Bulgaria, but this is another song! No one shot at the Red Army, regretted that then the Bulgarian Communists took power and began the massacre of the country, just why would the Nada clean up everything and free the put on Sovietization.
                  1. builder
                    builder 16 November 2013 23: 20
                    0
                    There were enough jackals there without you. Hitler would have won would have received his piece from Russia or Yugoslavia for loyalty. (Like Romania in 1913)
                    The participation of Bulgaria in the occupation of Greece and Yugoslavia and the hostilities against the Greek and Yugoslav partisans freed up German divisions to be sent to the Eastern Front. In addition, on December 6, 1941, Bulgarian patrol ships sank the Soviet submarine Sch-204 in the Varna region.
                    1. Bagatur
                      Bagatur 17 November 2013 17: 06
                      0
                      Hi! About the so-called occupation:
                      1. The Bulgarian troops were in A) Eastern Serbia, in our western outskirts and Vardarska Macedonia (then the Serbs had not yet thought of making the Bulgarians "Macedontsi") and B) White Sea Thrace was given to the Versailles peacekeeping Greece.
                      2. Of course, they fought with the partisans, but it’s not a denial ... but to another, it’s possible to fight in a war as in a war! It must be said, for the Bulgarians in1941 we are ally of the country-national masochism, but all the same, the Russians and Tatars Batia Bratalis ..
                      3. Bulgaria and the USSR were not in a state of war, your ambassador was in Sofia in the occupation of the country of the Red Army in 1944 .. What did your submarine do in our waters? I’ll tell you, the special cargo delivered by the Bogar communists will create illegal resistance ... the people didn’t get behind them ... they grabbed and shot them as it should! True, they were bailing and such but ... 3-4 000 could only wait when Comrade Stalin and makes them rule the country ... and waited 44 years ...
                      4. Will your friends tell you that in 1940 Arkady Sobolev came to Bozhlgaria and offered a pact and support against Turkey, but instead of military bases in Shumen, Yambol, Varna and Burgas .... then the Bulgarian communist, by order from Moscow, deployed the so-called. called "Sobolev, I am an action", here is such a call "for an alliance with the USSR and a revived socially just Germany!" ... Ved by the Molotv-Ribentrop Pact, Comrade Stalin and Adolf were friends ... But after the winter war and the occupation of the Baltic States, A man is ready to give Sofia the country of the USSR ...
                      5. Bulgaria signed the Tristranium Pact with Geramnius on 1/03.1941/23.06.1941 and no one from the BCP shouted that the country was sold to the Nazis ... but ... only Hitler attacked the USSR and our "comrades" woke up in XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX as antifascists ...
                      1. builder
                        builder 18 November 2013 00: 23
                        0
                        Hello dear Bagatur.
                        I remain in my opinion about the foreign policy of the Bulgarian government from 1913 to 1945 (just like you do with it). I regret to see that these days your government is stepping on the old rake - joining NATO, abuse of the monuments of Soviet wars, etc. d. With all this, I respect the simple Bulgarian people who, after 7 centuries of foreign rule, managed to preserve their faith and language, their writing and their traditions, and (no matter what) were traditionally good towards Russians. I hope that my next visit to Bulgaria, having stopped in Plovdiv, I will see in my place Alyosha and not a pile of ruins (I do not want to be disappointed).
                        Sorry if in my comments "went too far" - not out of malice (solely because of its harmful nature wink )
                      2. builder
                        builder 18 November 2013 00: 38
                        0

                        Having stopped in Plovdiv, I will see in my place Alyosha and not a pile of ruins (I do not want to be disappointed).
        3. Bagatur
          Bagatur 14 November 2013 23: 15
          +2
          That’s your problem ... you always wanted someone lying under you! And then blame anyone for Russophobia ... We in Bulgaria do not and will not ... but it is not your merit!
          1. builder
            builder 14 November 2013 23: 30
            +4
            We in Bulgaria do not and will not ...

            World War I vs Russia
            World War II vs Russia
            Now in NATO, if there is a mess against whom will you fight?
            Thank you very much, our Bulgarian thank you, Russian brothers for Shipka.
            That's your problem.
            1. Bagatur
              Bagatur 14 November 2013 23: 59
              +1
              In the First World War, we had a score with Serbia, all then the consequence! It’s unpleasant, of course, but .... it looks like our people in Macedonia are happy and are silent in the name of "Slavic unity," they did not collect "... Russia has chosen Serbia for a friend, of course, and our rulers cannot be called.
              The Second World War, not one of our soldiers fought against you! If you’d think about it, I don’t know who helped the Wehrmacht more or the Czechs who worked pretty well, the entire military order is excellent! I don’t say I’ll say about neutral shchved and iron ore from which 90% of Germany’s weapons were split .. I don’t say about the monument, I don’t have to paint it like that ... But if I knew what the Bulgarian Communists had done after Stalin put them in power, it’s possible think about a lot!

              I do not think that Russia’s problems are NATO .... better look at China!
              1. builder
                builder 15 November 2013 00: 16
                +1
                In World War I we had a bill with Serbia
                .
                I understand this is about how the BULGARIANS, SERBES, and GREECE defeated the Turks, gained independence and immediately began to fight among themselves over Macedonia?
                1. builder
                  builder 15 November 2013 00: 39
                  0
                  Russia vybryla itself Serbia for a friend
                  And not mistaken.
                  World War I with Russia
                  World War II with Russia
                2. Bagatur
                  Bagatur 16 November 2013 11: 55
                  +1
                  Yes ... Serbian igreki ustropoili real genocide of the Bulgarian population in Macedonia ... Is it possible that a country in which 1/3 of the officer corps, 10% of all officers could watch this? Serbia has refused to fulfill the pre-war treaties and concluded an alliance with Greece behind Bulgaria ... Of course, if Ferdinad and the people in Sofia had a mind in their head, they held back! The Vedas behind Romania, wanted Dobrudja and was furious after the defeat in the First Balkan War, Turkey ... If the two countries didn’t work, Bulgaria could have managed Serbia and Greece but .... didn’t! Russia supported Serbia, what must be understood, on the threshold of World War I! But the deplorable-Serbia will result in an alliance with Greece, then Romania and Turkey took the Bulgarian snakes .. Then there was no talk about any union with Serbia. Bulgaria had one whole return of the Bjlgar lands and salvation of a fellow tribesman from Serbian and Greek terror. If Russia and the Entente could convince Serbia to make concessions in 1915, then the story would be different. The Serbs preferred that Bulgaria be an enemy and would not give up the loot. And then, when in the summer of 1915, Rossi expired in defense of the same Serbia! A mogbo and another, in return for Macedonia, where there are no Serbs, Bulgaria could have been ready to defeat Turkey and open. Having spilled where the allies settled on the Dardanel ... Then the war will be beaten by a friend ... I won’t be a Bulgarian right-winger, they are also many they made a mistake but ... I do not agree all the blame on the Bulgarians will be blamed for everything! Serbia is good and Bulgarians are thankless!
                  1. builder
                    builder 16 November 2013 23: 02
                    +1
                    1. On the night of June 29th, 30 Bulgarians treacherously attacked the Serbs in Macedonia (For Serbia, this was a surprise, since that I expected the start of negotiations in St. Petersburg.)
                    2 July Greece accused Bulgaria of aggression and spoke on the side of Serbia.
                    3. A Romanian hyena appears: she demanded from Bulgaria Dobrudja to Balchik for neutrality and, including Balchik, for military support.
                    4. On September 29, 1913, a peace treaty was signed between Bulgaria and Turkey, practically restored the pre-war position.
                    PS The Russian Empire, under whose auspices the Balkan Union arose, opposed its collapse. The Russian government called for a peaceful settlement of the issue. It was planned to convene a conference of all "interested parties", where new borders would be established.
                    Because of its greed and stupidity of its government, Bulgaria blew everything that was given so much blood.
                    1. Bagatur
                      Bagatur 17 November 2013 17: 40
                      0
                      For stupidity, the government completely agrees! but do not forget that Serbia and Greece entered into an alliance against Bulgaria on May 19, 1913. And they already wrote terror and violence against the Bulgarians! When the future king of Serbia is beaten in the face by 2 laziness Bulgarian girl for the fact that she is asked a question. replied-Bulgarian ... UTB says a lot! If they didn’t have a Roman hyena, they got their own ..
              2. builder
                builder 15 November 2013 01: 38
                +3
                Quote: bagatura
                I do not think that Russia’s problems are NATO ....

                Then again you will say: "none of our soldiers fought against you!"
                What is NATO created for and what is the purpose of NATO membership in Bulgaria.
                1. builder
                  builder 15 November 2013 13: 57
                  +2
                  By the way, on the next branch I find out that the only arms supplier to Georgia after the 08.08.08/XNUMX/XNUMX war is Bulgaria (
                  Bulgaria became the only supplier of weapons to Georgia in the post-war period, from where twelve self-propelled guns, guns and MLRS were received (we can say that Georgia compensated for the losses in artillery due to this), as well as ten Su-25 attack aircraft, which were in non-flying condition and intended for disassembly for parts for 12 Georgian attack aircraft.
                  )
              3. 11111mail.ru
                11111mail.ru 15 November 2013 17: 53
                +1
                Quote: bagatura
                World War II none of our soldiers fought against you

                Well done! Now, thank that not one Bulgarian was killed in that war.
                1. Bagatur
                  Bagatur 17 November 2013 17: 53
                  0
                  THANK YOU VERY MUCH!! Are you comfortable?
      2. Starshina wmf
        Starshina wmf 15 November 2013 20: 47
        +1
        You must be able to fight. There the Syrians on the T-72 swatter militants.
  • makarov
    makarov 14 November 2013 09: 04
    +8
    ".. Poland is still a Russophobic buffer state, the goal of which is constant confrontation with Russia ..."

    I do not think so. Buffer is yes, I agree.
    With the rest, - no, because I think that the "opposition" has not grown, and will never grow, - not the same TS. "texture", has long been worn out.
    1. Grbear
      Grbear 14 November 2013 09: 44
      +1
      Buffer is yes, I agree.


      Such a "buffer" that both sides are not torn to touch - rotten and smells.
      1. zub46
        zub46 14 November 2013 13: 37
        +5
        It is not for nothing that our ancestors, having heard the first lines of the Polish national anthem ... "Polska has not perished yet" ... they added from themselves: "But it has already given a scent!"
  • Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 14 November 2013 09: 25
    +6
    Tired of them already, can Poland again be divided?
    1. sergey72
      sergey72 14 November 2013 10: 04
      +3
      Quote: Standard Oil
      Tired of them already, can Poland again be divided
      DONT thank you, what for do you need to tinker with this golozadoy and violently mad panel? There are enough of their own problems ...
      1. edge
        edge 14 November 2013 11: 49
        +2
        Quote: sergey72
        DONT thank you, what for do you need to tinker with this golozadoy and violently mad panel?

        and after all they will run away, to Britain, France, Germany the paths are trodden and not yet overgrown with grass
  • major071
    major071 14 November 2013 09: 32
    +6
    Poland is a small coin in the game of big players on the geopolitical map of the world. Only in the last few hundred years has it been played by Western players. And for a long time this coin fell into their wallet under the press of dollar bills. negative
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 14 November 2013 13: 44
      +1
      Quote: major071
      Poland is a small coin in the game of big players on the geopolitical map of the world.


      Such is the fate of countries in the state of a geopolitical mouse, and it is better for the Poles to sit quietly when geopolitical elephants run near their mink, which happens if the Poles behave differently - we know from history.
  • amicus
    amicus 14 November 2013 09: 33
    +6
    "Liberals, communists," multiculturalists ", Muslims, Russians, Jews and Gypsies are declared enemies of the party and the Polish nation .."
    Well, what can I add? .- ORDINARY Polish FASCISM!
  • vladsolo56
    vladsolo56 14 November 2013 09: 41
    10
    I still think that most Poles treat Russia calmly, if not indifferently. They have enough of their problems. But there is a certain amount without brains, which are clients (Russophobia as a diagnosis). They are used for their own purposes by unscrupulous politicians. You would think that in Russia there are none.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 10: 05
      +2
      Vlad, you are right. Most Poles really have a normal attitude towards Russia. Although in any one you can pick out a sore from "grievances" in 5 minutes. Well, it is really a fact - Poles believe that they are more educated and cultured than Russians (in fact, they are not at all more cultured and educated than Russians). Naturally, such a look always interferes with seeing another person as an equal interlocutor.
      They have stupid politicians, but I would not say that they represent the entire political system of Poland. It is the Russian media that usually snatch out anti-Russian rhetoric, and thus form a certain negative image of Poland.
      The current president, Komorowski, is a very adequate politician. Despite the fact that he is, essno, pro-American.
    2. ultra
      ultra 14 November 2013 11: 16
      +4
      Quote: vladsolo56
      I still think that most Poles treat Russia calmly, if not indifferently.

      As a matter of fact, most Russians are to the Poles!
  • Ihrek
    Ihrek 14 November 2013 09: 45
    +5
    And so, by and large, Poland is always hostile to Russia. It behaves as if we owe something to her and a lot. This soil is constantly fertilized by the west, led by the United States.
  • tank64rus
    tank64rus 14 November 2013 09: 46
    +3
    It is a pity that in Western Ukraine they forgot about the concentration camps created by the Poles in the 20-30s, but let them join Poland in the European Union.
  • CHILD
    CHILD 14 November 2013 09: 53
    +4
    Quote: Standard Oil
    News of the desecration of memorials and graves of Soviet soldiers who liberated Poland from the Nazis is already an everyday occurrence. But in this area, Poland was able to surprise. On October 12, 2013, a sculpture of the “Soviet rapist soldier” was installed in Gdansk. The sculpture, which consists of figures of a man and a woman in human height, is a scene of violence.
    ..... WHAT ARE NOT PLEASANT PEOPLE, AFTER THE NEXT WAR, IT WILL BE GIVEN TO GIFT THEM TO VIETNAM am ......
  • Vaskes
    Vaskes 14 November 2013 09: 57
    +3
    As they say do not do good, you will not get evil.
  • Turkestan
    Turkestan 14 November 2013 10: 14
    17
    And when were the Poles brothers ???

    - This is when Soviet Russia granted independence to the Poles in 1917 after the Revolution, and they, in gratitude, declared war on Soviet Russia and destroyed 20000 thousand captured Red Army soldiers.
    - This is when the 30s of the leadership of Poland twice offered Nazi Germany their territory for war with the USSR.
    - This is when General Anders refused to fight on the Soviet front and the death of 500000 thousand Soviet soldiers for the liberation of Poland.
    Or when we talk about the Katyn tragedy, we don’t remember the Poles killing 1941 Jews in XNUMX in the town of Yedvaban. So to whom should we apologize and for what.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 11: 06
      -11 qualifying.
      Quote: Turkestan
      - This is when Soviet Russia granted independence to the Poles in 1917 after the Revolution,

      Well, actually Russia once forcibly occupied Poland. Therefore, the fact that they gave her independence is not a merit, but a correction of the policy of the previous government.
      Quote: Turkestan
      and those, in gratitude, declared war on Soviet Russia and destroying 20000 thousand captured Red Army soldiers.

      20 thousand prisoners - this is 23% of the total number of Soviet prisoners in Poland. For example: about 10% of Polish prisoners died in Soviet captivity. And this despite the fact that the Poles did not have a normal opportunity to give such a large number of prisoners normal conditions.
      Quote: Turkestan
      - This is when the 30s of the leadership of Poland twice offered Nazi Germany their territory for war with the USSR.

      Well, what are we better? With the same Germans, they calmly shared it in the same 30s. The USSR and Poland were very hostile to each other.

      Quote: Turkestan
      - This is when General Anders refused to fight on the Soviet front and the death of 500000 thousand Soviet soldiers for the liberation of Poland.

      This is Anders' right where to fight. He did not want to lead the communist army, so he himself asked to leave the USSR.
      We did not liberate Poland because the Poles wanted to do something good, but it was in our interests to go to Germany and finally defeat Hitler.
      Quote: Turkestan
      Or when we talk about the Katyn tragedy, we don’t remember the Poles killing 1941 Jews in XNUMX in the town of Yedvaban.
      Budyonnovtsy also distinguished themselves by pogroms, robbery, rape and killings of civilians. The soldier didn’t even listen to the commanders, and if all sorts of divisional commissars tried to stop the bacchanalia, they could be killed as well, as commissar Shepelev in the 6th division during the Polish-Soviet war.
      By the way, as soon as Polish historians found out that the Poles had committed the pogrom, the Poles immediately represented by the country's president, Kwasniewski, made an official apology to the Jews. So do not say that the Poles allegedly do not admit their mistakes or are trying to shut them up.
      1. Djozz
        Djozz 14 November 2013 11: 49
        10
        In the most difficult year of the Second World War, the USSR, tearing resources from itself, fed, clothed and armed Anderson’s army, which was hanging around in the rear and did not want to fight, and then dumped in the Middle East, where the bulk of the army settled, only a small part in the form of a corps fought in Italy and then without much zeal. And about Katyn, you repeat Goebbels rehash!
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 12: 07
          -12 qualifying.
          Quote: Djozz
          In the most difficult year of the Second World War, the USSR, tearing resources away from itself, fed, clothed and armed the Anderson army, which was hanging around in the rear and did not want to fight

          Didn't want to fight for communist ideals. But the USSR wanted the Poles to create a communist army. Anders was ready to fight "For the Motherland", but not "For the USSR". They were fed and dressed, by the way, so-so. Most of them were worn by the British and Americans, passing the clothes through the USSR.

          Quote: Djozz
          And about Katyn, you repeat Goebbels rehash!

          Kanesh, I'm Goebbels. Also, Putin and the Chief Military Prosecutor's Office and the General Prosecutor's Office of the Russian Federation are Goebbels, because officially recognized that the shooting was carried out by the Soviet side. Well, I forgot that Stalin handed out only flowers to everyone and built the Dnieper hydroelectric power station.
          1. Djozz
            Djozz 14 November 2013 12: 19
            +7
            The European Court dismissed the Poles' claim on Katyn. And look at the "documents" of the so-called "Special folder" from them rushing fake. Expertise Starikov.
            1. Doctorleg
              Doctorleg 14 November 2013 19: 18
              -2
              Report abuse of site rules

              Quote: Djozz
              The European Court dismissed the Poles' claim on Katyn. And look at the "documents" of the so-called "Special folder" from them rushing fake. Expertise Starikov.

              Starikov notable "expert"
              1. 11111mail.ru
                11111mail.ru 15 November 2013 18: 06
                0
                Quote: DoctorOleg
                Starikov notable "expert"

                Without quotes it will be more accurate! And if Nikolai Starikov hooked you, then I recommend reading the book by Yuri Mukhin "Anti-Russian meanness." Scientific and historical analysis. Investigation of the falsification of the Katyn case by Poland, the General Prosecutor's Office of Russia in order to inflame the hatred of the Poles towards the Russians. Then you can discuss your statement.
          2. I am
            I am 14 November 2013 23: 06
            -2
            A sami polacy białe i puszyste. I w ogóle nic nie pomagały niemcom. I niemcy ich w podzięce za to w getcie nie sadzili, w obozach koncentracyjnych nie spędzono i tak dalej.
            1. The comment was deleted.
      2. edge
        edge 14 November 2013 11: 55
        +5
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Budyonnovtsy also distinguished themselves by pogroms, robbery, rape and murder

        and that he shares bread with the murderers of his relatives. If you have raped and killed your wife, daughter, will you hug him?
        1. edge
          edge 14 November 2013 14: 42
          +1
          Quote: hert
          Budyonnovtsy also distinguished themselves by pogroms, robbery, rape and murder

          The old Russian proverb says, “Sow the wind, reap the storm ..... get
        2. Doctorleg
          Doctorleg 14 November 2013 19: 21
          0
          Quote: hert
          Quote: Marek Rozny
          Budyonnovtsy also distinguished themselves by pogroms, robbery, rape and murder

          and that he shares bread with the murderers of his relatives. If you have raped and killed your wife, daughter, will you hug him?

          This is when the Poles got to the wives of the Budyonnovsk Don Cossacks? And about the war, you can read Babel, who was in that war. There is nothing to be proud of.
      3. IS-80
        IS-80 14 November 2013 11: 57
        +8
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Well, what are we better? With the same Germans, they calmly shared it in the same 30s. The USSR and Poland were very hostile to each other.


        Yes, still pay with crocodile tears for the Polish occupiers of the Belarusian and Ukrainian lands. Hyena deserves its fate. Although of course, honest and good Poles are a pity.

        Quote: Marek Rozny

        20 thousand prisoners - this is 23% of the total number of Soviet prisoners in Poland. For example: about 10% of Polish prisoners died in Soviet captivity. And this despite the fact that the Poles did not have a normal opportunity to give such a large number of prisoners normal conditions.


        And they tried so hard. Yes Yes.


        Quote: Marek Rozny
        This is Anders' right where to fight. He did not want to lead the communist army, so he himself asked to leave the USSR.
        We did not liberate Poland because the Poles wanted to do something good, but it was in our interests to go to Germany and finally defeat Hitler.


        Indeed, at least on the side of Hitler, what reproaches could be? And in the interests of Poland was the occupation by the Nazis? It was they who raised the uprising in Warsaw, and cried that the Soviet army did not help them.

        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Budyonnovtsy also distinguished themselves by pogroms, robbery, rape and killings of civilians. The soldier didn’t even listen to the commanders, and if all sorts of divisional commissars tried to stop the bacchanalia, they could be killed as well, as commissar Shepelev in the 6th division during the Polish-Soviet war.
        By the way, as soon as Polish historians found out that the Poles had committed the pogrom, the Poles immediately represented by the country's president Kwasniewski made an official apology to the Jews. So do not say that the Poles allegedly do not admit their mistakes or are trying to shut them up


        And Polish soldiers and officers have always behaved exemplary and disciplined, not like oriental barbarians. But it’s interesting to us that they apologized for anything at least? Or are Russian barbarians not worthy of them?
        And about the Jews it’s generally funny. The current liberals and progressive universal people have made of them some kind of idol around which they dance and throw like mad dogs at everyone who is trying to say that they are people too and are not always right, which by the way is largely harmful to the Jews themselves. Hanging the label of anti-Semite is generally a favorite pastime of liberal civilized civilizers.
        1. Fox
          Fox 14 November 2013 12: 18
          +6
          Quote: IS-80
          And Polish soldiers and officers have always behaved exemplary and disciplined, not like oriental barbarians. But it’s interesting to us that they apologized for anything at least? Or are Russian barbarians not worthy of them?


          I can clarify a little: WHO STARTED THE SOVIET-POLISH WAR?
          Who is the aggressor?
          How did the Poles behave near Kiev, I do not ask.
          They had a purely "humanitarian" operation.
          1. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 12: 32
            -7
            Quote: Liss
            WHO STARTED THE SOVIET-POLISH WAR?

            Poland did not invade the territory of the RSFSR (the USSR did not exist yet). The Poles were going to collect the lands of the Commonwealth (Belarus, Lithuania). Formally, the BSSR (or rather the Belarusian-Lithuanian SSR) was an independent state, and in theory, the introduction of troops of the Red Army belonging to Moscow was the same fact of aggression against the BSSR.
            The Poles did not take into account that the communists not only did not intend to give up the Belarusian-Lithuanian lands to some semi-mythical Rzeczpospolita, but also planned to blow up Poland itself with a communist fire, so that through the "corpse of white Poland" they were going to one of the main points of the "world fire" - Germany. It makes no difference whether the Poles would have entered the territory of the eastern lands of the ex-Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth or not, the Bolsheviks would have unleashed a war with Poland, expecting that the "Polish proletariat" would rise up against the "lords" and join the regiments of the Red Army going to Berlin.
            Nobody even concealed this in the RSFSR. The Poles understood perfectly what the Bolsheviks were going to do. It was enough to read the usual Soviet newspapers or speeches of the leaders of the CPSU.
            1. Fox
              Fox 14 November 2013 14: 31
              +8
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Poland did not invade the territory of the RSFSR

              Yes, you clearly taught history in the Polish version.
              If the USSR did not exist, it means they didn’t invade, and if they didn’t invade, it means they didn’t hang, they didn’t shoot, their bellies didn’t rip open.

              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Poles were going to collect the lands of the Commonwealth

              And this, in your opinion, justifies the atrocities. It is convenient to recall the XXVI century, forgetting that 18-19 and the beginning of the 20th are the lands of the Russian Empire.

              Quote: Marek Rozny
              Formally, the BSSR (or rather the Belarusian-Lithuanian SSR) was an independent state, and in theory, the introduction of troops of the Red Army belonging to Moscow was the same fact of aggression against the BSSR.

              To put on one board both the executioner and the liberator- AH, HOW IT'S POLISH.

              Quote: Marek Rozny
              the Bolsheviks would fall in love with Poland

              The story, of course, is a "walking girl" but there is no "if only" in it.
              Let me remind you that the troops of the KR.AR. were removed from the Southern Front. to the Polish front.

              Quote: Marek Rozny
              expecting that the "Polish proletariat" would raise an uprising against the "gentlemen" and join the regiments of the Red Army marching on Berlin. Nobody in the RSFSR even hid this. The Poles perfectly understood what the Bolsheviks were going to do. It was enough to read ordinary Soviet newspapers or speeches of the leaders of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks.

              These plans appeared AFTER Pilsudski's mad dogs were kicked out of the USSR and the BSSR. But this does not change the essence - POLES AGRESSORS. Received "on the tinsel" in a hostile territory.
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 18: 12
                -2
                Quote: Liss
                Yes, you clearly taught history in the Polish version.

                I don’t speak Polish except for single phrases. I haven’t studied at a Polish school; I don’t read Polish newspapers before or after dinner.
                It is enough just not to divide peoples into great and small in order to calmly study history. Unfortunately, both the Russians and the Poles are turned on their mythical "greatness" and are ready to bark at anyone who objects to them on this issue. Well, there are no great or small nations. What is incomprehensible here? Each nation has its own time to be on the crest of the wave.
                Quote: Liss
                If the USSR did not exist, it means they didn’t invade, and if they didn’t invade, it means they didn’t hang, they didn’t shoot, their bellies didn’t rip open.
                Do not distort. I wrote that no one attacked Russia in 1920. Minsk and Vilnius are not Russia in those years, but independent lands.
                In addition, the Poles and Russians, white, red, green, and Ukrainians ripped open their bellies. Too lazy to study the issue? In those years, all parties tried to surpass themselves in the issue of violence against a captive enemy or a foreigner.
                Remember the old joke?
                The partisans captured the village, knocking out the fascists from there. They are standing over the grave of the brutally tortured and murdered Jews, they took off their hats. The commander with a trembling voice: "Fascist bastards killed our Jews! But nothing, comrades, we will take revenge on the German fanatics! Let's get to Germany and kill all their Jews in revenge!"
                During the years of the Civil War, native people shredded each other with sabers, and here you are talking about international relations. The Budyonnovsk people I mentioned still distinguished themselves as atrocities in these same territories. Well, you must know how the Bolsheviks dealt with villages there that did not support Soviet power. All these Trotsky, Blucher, Tukhachevsky, Uborevichi, Yakirs, Budyonny, Kotovsky deserved their main awards for the suppression of peasant riots, which to a damn were pans or Bolshevik ideals.
                Yes, and there were ... no legal borders between Ukraine, Poland and Belarus. Yes, the Bolsheviks offered negotiations on the borders, but it was already clear that the Bolsheviks were going to leave Ukraine and Belarus, so the arrogant head of Poland refused meaningless negotiations. He was going to draw the border where the Commonwealth was. Which of the Bolsheviks would agree with this? The positions of both sides were extremely clear. Purely legally there were no borders. So, Warsaw and Moscow claimed this land with equal rights.
                1. Marek Rozny
                  Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 18: 14
                  -4
                  Quote: Liss
                  To put on one board both the executioner and the liberator- AH, HOW IT'S POLISH.
                  The Poles are exactly the same executioners / liberators as the Russians in this war. Nobody asked the opinion of the "farmers". And if they objected, they were extinguished with fire and sword on both sides.

                  Quote: Liss
                  Let me remind you that the troops of the KR.AR. were removed from the Southern Front. to the Polish front.
                  Yes, the Poles did not climb at the right time to restore their medieval borders. It was necessary to wait until the Bolsheviks got stronger and were ready to "liberate the Polish peasants from the oppression of the bourgeoisie."


                  Quote: Liss
                  These plans appeared AFTER Pilsudski's rabid dogs were kicked out of the Ukrainian SSR and BSSR.

                  Nothing like this. The plans of the Bolsheviks from the very beginning were aimed at a "world revolution". Not that they were preparing to enter Poland and Germany, even in Afghanistan in almost the same years the Red Army climbed. Back in the 20s, the "red" aircraft bombed Kabul, because the "unreasonable" Afghans were not going to make the communist revolution on their own. Why waste time on trifles - "to wash boots in the Indian Ocean" was already planned in Moscow. And it's not a joke.
                  1. Liss.
                    Liss. 15 November 2013 14: 09
                    0
                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    The Poles are exactly the same executioners / liberators as the Russians in this war. Nobody asked the opinion of the "farmers". And if they objected, they were extinguished with fire and sword on both sides.

                    Nope, the Poles began, "the instigator is the first whip." They seized not a "farm" - a land alien to them, destroying the inhabitants on a national basis.

                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    Yes, the Poles did not climb at the right time to restore their medieval borders. It was necessary to wait until the Bolsheviks got stronger and were ready to "liberate the Polish peasants from the oppression of the bourgeoisie."

                    But it’s even very Polish, to cut an unarmed garrison at a feast day, at a time Napoleon stuck to free. Movement, at a time the Russian Empire collapsed.
                    "White Eagle" - this is "Black Crow", on the exhausted used to feast.

                    Quote: Marek Rozny
                    Nothing like this. The plans of the Bolsheviks from the very beginning were aimed at a "world revolution".

                    Lenin was not banned in Kazakhstan? Read about the victory of the Revolution in a particular country. Trotsky is a maniac, yes, he raved about "MR".
                    True, as a result, the Brest Peace came out. In general, do not leave the topic or lead others away.
                2. Thunderbolt
                  Thunderbolt 14 November 2013 18: 54
                  +1
                  Quote: Marek Rozny
                  the Bolsheviks offered negotiations on the borders, but it was clear that the Bolsheviks were going to leave Ukraine and Belarus, so the arrogant head of Poland refused meaningless negotiations.
                  And, as always, there was a "third force" in European politics. Allies of the Russian Empire in the Entente:
                  On December 12-13, 1919, at a meeting of the Entente Supreme Council, where the question of further policy with respect to Soviet Russia was discussed, French Prime Minister J. Clemenceau proposed making the main bet on Poland, setting it against the Bolsheviks. To this end, he called for military and financial assistance to Poland. The French Prime Minister was supported by his British counterpart D. Lloyd George and US representative D. Davis. After it was not possible to create a wide anti-Soviet bloc from small states bordering Russia, the main hopes were placed on Poland and Wrangel’s troops.
                  Only from France came 9 generals, 29 colonels, 63 battalion commanders, 196 captains, 435 lieutenants and 2120 privates.
                  I believe that Poland was a vile parabellum in the hands of the West. Young Soviet Russia responded to this threat with a desperate saber strike.
                  1. Marek Rozny
                    Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 19: 18
                    0
                    Quote: Thunderbolt
                    I believe that Poland was a vile parabellum in the hands of the West. Young Soviet Russia responded to this threat with a desperate saber strike.

                    The West also supplied arms to Russian White Guards fighting against the Bolsheviks.
                    Well, Soviet Russia made enemies immediately as soon as it announced its plans for the world revolution. On October 26, 1917, at the Second All-Russian Congress of Soviets, Trotsky publicly declared:
                    "We pin our hope on the fact that our revolution will unleash the European revolution. If the insurgent peoples of Europe do not crush imperialism, we will be crushed, - this is undoubtedly. Either the Russian revolution will raise a whirlwind of struggle in the West, or the capitalists of all countries will strangle ours."
                    Lenin, in a letter to Sverdlov and Trotsky on October 1, 1918, pointed out that "... The international revolution has approached ... to such a distance that it must be reckoned with as an event of the coming days."
                    On March 6, 1919, in his closing speech at the closing of the I (constituent) Congress of the Comintern, he declared: "The victory of the proletarian revolution throughout the world is assured. The foundation of an international Soviet republic is coming."
                    The Chairman of the Executive Committee of the Comintern G. Zinoviev already in October 1919 announced that within a year the World Revolution would spread to the whole of Europe. And at the II Congress of the Comintern, held in July - August 1920, Zinoviev announced that they would "hold the III Congress of the Comintern in Berlin, and then in Paris, London ...".

                    "... We are on a woe to all bourgeois
                    A world fire will blow up,
                    World fire in the blood -
                    God bless! "
                    (A. Block, 1918)

                    The Bolsheviks were then treated exactly the same way as the whole world is concerned with the Taliban and other Wahhabites who dream of a World Caliphate.
                    1. Thunderbolt
                      Thunderbolt 14 November 2013 22: 02
                      0
                      Quote: Marek Rozny
                      "... We are on a woe to all bourgeois
                      A world fire will blow up,
                      World fire in the blood -
                      God bless! "
                      (A. Block, 1918)
                      The bloc shout of Soviet Russia? Why adapt simply the great Russian poet to make him the mouthpiece of the world revolution.
                      Quote: Marek Rozny
                      The West also supplied arms to Russian White Guards fighting against the Bolsheviks.
                      I in my post and pointed out that the vector of military-political assistance to the country of the West was sent to Poland and the black baron Wrangel.
                      Quote: Marek Rozny
                      On March 6, 1919, in his closing speech at the closing of the I (constituent) Congress of the Comintern, he declared: "The victory of the proletarian revolution throughout the world is assured. The foundation of an international Soviet republic is coming."
                      Our Edros (incidentally, the name of Wrangel licked bully) and do not speak at their plenums, but loud speeches are not a real threat. Relate the resources of the victorious countries and the Soviet Republic, well, at least in soldier carports
                      Quote: Marek Rozny
                      The Bolsheviks were then treated exactly the same way as the whole world is concerned with the Taliban and other Wahhabites who dream of a World Caliphate.
                      Well ... if so, then all the red Bavarians are Wahhabi bearded wassat List of victims and destructions in Europe from a young Soviet republic (the burning of the Reichstag is not accepted wassat ) But here I have a list of the victims and destruction of the Russian Empire by the West until 1918, but I will not post it, because. it will jam the Internet. Civilization will stop if I press the key and there will be an endless stream of information about the struggle of enlightened Europe against Russian Wahhabism. Will we repel ourselves from the Battle of the Ice or remember the war of Neanderthals with the inhabitants of French caves?
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 14 November 2013 22: 06
                        0
                        And on the other hand, with whom else can Russia agree? With the French, or with the Saudis Swiss?
      4. Fox
        Fox 14 November 2013 12: 07
        +9
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Well, actually Russia once forcibly occupied Poland. Therefore, the fact that they gave her independence is not a merit, but a correction of the policy of the previous government.


        Yes, you just had to give in to the Austrians or the Germans. Why the heck was the Kingdom of Poland with its own Constitution and other "pribludy" such as local laws?
        The Poles would be happy, since they have no claims to the other two "dividers" and the question of statehood would be settled forever.
      5. Fin
        Fin 14 November 2013 12: 49
        +6
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Well, actually Russia once forcibly occupied Poland. Therefore, the fact that they gave her independence is not a merit, but a correction of the policy of the previous government.

        Well, actually we can remember 1612 and still take revenge. And they shared her for always behaving like a prostitute.
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        20 thousand prisoners - this is 23% of the total number of Soviet prisoners in Poland.

        There is still no exact data on the fate of Polish and Soviet prisoners of war. According to Russian sources, about 80 thousand of the 200 thousand captured in Polish captivity died from hunger, disease, torture, bullying and executions. The question is complex.
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        This is Anders' right where to fight. He did not want to lead the communist army, so he himself asked to leave the USSR.

        What an ideological one must be. Liberate the Polish people faster with ter. THE USSR. And he is through "Vladivostok". Of course, it's scary at the Germans in the forehead, let the Russian fools die, and then we'll drive up on a white horse from the West. The jackals of Europe as Hitler called them.
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        So do not say that the Poles allegedly do not admit their mistakes or are trying to shut them up.

        Something I did not hear for the prisoners of 19-21, or is it not considered?
      6. tomas.09
        tomas.09 14 November 2013 14: 41
        +5
        Poland, as part of the Russian Empire, had almost the same privileges as Finland, and the fact that the Soviets gave them independence immediately affected their self-conceit, and rushed. "Greater Poland", etc. etc.
      7. yur
        yur 14 November 2013 22: 54
        0
        In general, all your arguments, dear, on the principle, he is not good.
    2. Bagatur
      Bagatur 14 November 2013 17: 58
      +3
      Hmm, the aliens will be freed, the put to Berlin through Warsaw is coming ... that's the trouble ... In Bulgaria, we say, when Germany and Russia are friends, it seems good for us and for the Poles .. the same
      1. Setrac
        Setrac 14 November 2013 21: 40
        0
        Quote: bagatura
        In Bulgaria, we say, when Germany and Russia are friends, it seems good for us and for the Poles .. the same

        When was Russia friends with Germany?
        1. 11111mail.ru
          11111mail.ru 15 November 2013 18: 27
          0
          From 1813 to 1896
      2. 11111mail.ru
        11111mail.ru 15 November 2013 18: 26
        0
        Quote: bagatura
        Hmm, the aliens will be released, the put to Berlin through Warsaw is coming ... that’s all the trouble.

        Well, those Bulgarians on September 8, 1944 turned out to be smarter than the lords.
  • crambol
    crambol 14 November 2013 10: 26
    +5
    Jeszcze Polska nie zginela ...

    Jeszcze Polska nie zginela, but turned up a choke!
  • sky17176
    sky17176 14 November 2013 10: 46
    +6
    Among all the Slavs, it was the Poles who did more harm than fraternal help. We had 300 years of the Mongol yoke, but wasn’t it Polish.
    1. mamba
      mamba 14 November 2013 11: 28
      +5
      Quote: sky17176
      We had 300 years of the Mongol yoke, but wasn’t it Polish.

      It was. Poland is the only state with which Russia / Russia has been fighting for more than a thousand years intermittently. Where are the Tatars, Turks, Swedes and Germans!
  • borisjdin1957
    borisjdin1957 14 November 2013 11: 04
    +8
    from the Don.
    I would like to quote the words of Bismarck, who is the ambassador of Prussia in Russia, to Gorchakov: Beat the Poles so that they would lose their desire for life; I personally sympathize with their situation, but if we want to live, we will have no choice but to exterminate them .. ..
    No comments.
  • hohryakov066
    hohryakov066 14 November 2013 11: 09
    +7
    Dreams and Reality
  • Diviz
    Diviz 14 November 2013 11: 17
    +1
    We have no trade and economic relations with Poland. I have not met Polish apples. It is necessary to leave the west slowly .. Siberia is east .. China, Korea, Vietnam.
  • Alexander I
    Alexander I 14 November 2013 11: 21
    +4
    How not to twist the Pole - everywhere **
    1. Fox
      Fox 14 November 2013 11: 37
      +8
      A nation living in the past
      looking for only insults in him
      and only insults from one neighbor
      - insignificantly dirty in peacetime.
      Hostile to the military.
      This should be our perception, I think so.
  • Fastblast
    Fastblast 14 November 2013 11: 45
    -1
    something is already sick of this "brotherhood of all Russia" ...
    Unfortunately, resources, territories and loot decide everything.

    Regarding the embassies - well, the zigging teenagers at the embassy of the Russian Federation in Poland encouraged and, on the other hand, exactly the same zygomets arranged the same thing at the Polish embassy in the Russian Federation ... two pair boots.

    Ordinary citizens, hard workers of these two countries, this question does not concern at all.
  • msv
    msv 14 November 2013 11: 48
    +8
    Marek Rozny
    How dashingly you gradually led to the fact that Russia should repent, apologize Christianly in the person of Putin to Poland. And they will immediately become good and friendly.
    I am not a supporter of retaliatory measures against Polish fans. It is not good that those whom we invite to such international events as the World Cup are immediately wet. At least unworthy.
    But I am categorically against your promise. The first stupidity of Russia is that it began to repent and apologize on behalf of the state (or the first persons of the state), either for Stalin or for someone else. This is regarded as weakness and never leads to the results you are talking about.
    If we are talking about some kind of pacification, then it should be mutual (and from Poland). There is a reason. But they do not get it.
  • Fobos-grunt
    Fobos-grunt 14 November 2013 12: 01
    +3
    Turkestan : And when were the Poles brothers ???

    There was never unity among Poles — their blood was shed — rivers. They used to organize a gang: more precisely, a CONFEDERATION - and let's knead everyone by sending - their kings, priests to the address on TRZY ZABAWNY ZNAKI
    ( 3 FUN LETTERS - for reference EXPLAINING IN RUSSIANS AND POLES ARE CONNECTIVE !)
    They came up with a “confederate” cap and their cap for this thing.
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 14 November 2013 13: 51
      +6
      Quote: Fobos-grunt
      They came up with a “confederate” cap and their cap for this thing.


      "... (believe me)
      One hundred million fatal troubles
      Life has an asymmetrical answer ... "
      1. pensioner
        pensioner 14 November 2013 17: 31
        +1
        I’m familiar, familiar with this cap ... Good evening Kplsonn !! I'm glad to see you!! You haven’t been seen for a long time. During your absence in America, a couple of planes fell, the British submarine had problems with the reactor, in Turkey they nearly overthrew the government, and in Egypt they overthrew. Tell me please repeat about your further creative plans ...
  • morpogr
    morpogr 14 November 2013 12: 04
    0
    All the same, the Pole is a diagnosis, it is necessary to urgently use the medicine. And then the infection spreads.
    1. I am
      I am 14 November 2013 23: 09
      0
      Yes, 10 thousand tanks will be a good stabilizing factor, well, or the TU-160 on a shaver flying over Warsaw.
  • Stinger
    Stinger 14 November 2013 12: 23
    10
    It is difficult to object to the author. But, in my opinion, the Russophobia of Poland, and the Baltic states, too, is based on the realization of missed opportunities to seize, or at least dominate, the territory of Russia. Instead, due to their geographical location, their countries turned first into a passage yard for those wishing to conquer Russia, and then a bargaining chip in resolving conflicts between other powers and Russia. An inferiority complex arose. And, since it’s not very pleasant to be offended (we are great!), They were offended by Russia.
    1. crambol
      crambol 14 November 2013 19: 03
      +1
      ... awareness of missed opportunities ...


      You can’t say better! Fine!
  • Turkestan
    Turkestan 14 November 2013 12: 38
    +9
    In February 1920, the 20th White Guard group of General Bredov was interned in Poland, retreating there under the onslaught of the Red Army from Ukraine. At that time, the Poles were at war with the Bolsheviks. However, instead of fraternally accepting the allies in arms and making it easier for themselves to fight the common enemy, the creator of the Polish state, Marshal Jozef Pilsudski, sent them to concentration camps.
    According to archival documents, the interned White Guards were almost not fed and did not provide medical assistance. Camp guards raged: she not only robbed the internees, but often brutally beat them. As a result, mortality was terrifying: by August 1920, at least four thousand people had died out before the survivors were sent to Wrangel. The situation was so egregious that Boris Savinkov, an ardent opponent of the Bolsheviks, in his letter to Pilsudski about the plight of officers and volunteers of the interned White Guard armies in the Polish camps of December 21, 1920, was compelled to humblely ask: “I respectfully ask you, Mr. Head of State, not to refuse and give the necessary orders so that the fate of people who, with arms in hand, shared the gravity and glory of the war with the Polish heroic army was facilitated. ”
    About the same way they treated the white army of Yudenich, forced to retreat to the Baltic. They passed through the border in small groups, then took away weapons, after another kilometer all valuables, and then clothes. So, as one of the historians put it, they didn’t beat on the “ideological passport”, but simply on the Russian face.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 13: 02
      -9
      Turkestan, tell me, what would happen to Poland if the White Guards won in Russia? The White Guard, in case of its victory, would first of all send troops against Poland and Finland in order to "return the lost lands", which Lenin "got rid of" like. Lenin simply denounced all the tsarist agreements on the redistribution of the world in order to arrange his new redistribution. None of the Bolsheviks was going to let the Poles and Finns go. By the way, the Red Army was practically sent against the "white Finland" in those same years, which the Finns kicked their ass, like the Poles.
      Pilsudski did not think that supporting Denikin and other white generals was in the interests of Poland. To hell who of these generals would give the Poles not only to encroach on Vilno and Minsk, but also within the borders of Poland to develop the Polish flag.
      And the Poles remember perfectly how the Russians during the time of tsarism treated the Polish rebels. Poland in the blood was repeatedly drowned by the gentlemen of the Romanovs.
      1. IS-80
        IS-80 14 November 2013 14: 08
        +4
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        By the way, the Red Army was practically sent against the "white Finland" in those same years, which the Finns kicked their ass like the Poles.


        Oh well, the Finns there by chance did not help the Poles write history?
        1. edge
          edge 14 November 2013 14: 54
          +2
          Quote: IS-80
          By the way, the Red Army was practically sent against "white Finland" in the same years, which the Finns kicked their ass, like the Poles

          they kicked him, and for some reason the result of this nader was the appearance of Karelia as part of the USSR, the transfer of the border into the interior of Finnish territory. Or does defeat always end with the acquisition of territories? n-yes The strange, irrational logic you have ....- or rather its absence: pull phrases out of context and throw them away. This speaks of the organization of intelligence at the level of a yard dump. Study the sources, analyze, generalize them into a single whole, we are taught this in high school, unlike probably yours ..... PAN hi
          1. IS-80
            IS-80 14 November 2013 16: 18
            +1
            be careful and do not ascribe to me what I did not say.
          2. Marek Rozny
            Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 17: 31
            0
            Quote: IS-80
            Oh well, the Finns there by chance did not help the Poles write history?

            Quote: hert
            they got kicked, and for some reason the result of this nader was the appearance of Karelia as part of the USSR, the transfer of the border into the interior of Finnish territory.

            Quote: hert
            This speaks of the organization of intelligence at the level of a yard dump. Study the sources, analyze, generalize them into a single whole, we are taught this in high school, unlike probably yours ..... PAN

            Now carefully read what I wrote:
            Quote: Marek Rozny
            By the way, against "white Finland" in the same years practically

            The Winter War is not the first war between the Soviet Bolsheviks and the Finns.

            First Soviet-Finnish War - military operations between the White Finnish troops and units of the Red Army in Soviet Russia from March 1918 to October 1920.
            It ended on October 14, 1920 with the signing of the Tartu Peace Treaty between the RSFSR and Finland, which fixed a number of territorial concessions from Soviet Russia.
            In 1920, under the Tartu Peace Treaty, Soviet Russia made significant territorial concessions - independent Finland received Western Karelia to the Sestra River, the Pechenga Region in the Arctic, the western part of the Rybachy Peninsula and most of the Middle Peninsula.

            Then there was the second Soviet-Finnish war (1921-1922), when the Finns decided to return the "ancestral lands", but then they broke off. The peace treaty secured the borders according to the Treaty of Tartu in 20.

            And the winter war of 1939 was the third Soviet-Finnish war. Learn the history of your country. It will come in handy. Otherwise, as I understand it, only the 1939 war took place in your school, so as not to litter "your intellectual garbage."
            1. IS-80
              IS-80 14 November 2013 21: 36
              0
              Quote: Marek Rozny
              And the winter war of 1939 was the third Soviet-Finnish war. Learn the history of your country. It will come in handy. Otherwise, as I understand it, only the 1939 war took place in your school, so as not to litter "your intellectual garbage."


              Thank you valiant fighter for a bright Slavic future, it was not worth spreading
              a piece of Wikipedia article, we are in the know. And where are the grand victories of the Finnish army?
              1. Marek Rozny
                Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 22: 41
                0
                Quote: IS-80
                not worth spreading
                a piece of Wikipedia article, we are in the know.

                I am glad that you are in the know. and then they started to convince me that the Soviet-Finnish war in the 20s ended in the defeat of Finland and the seizure of territories from it in favor of Soviet Russia.
                Quote: IS-80
                And where are the grand victories of the Finnish army?

                grandiose or not, but it was the Finns who defeated the Red Army and chopped off to the territory received from Lenin another piece of land.
                Now answer what your answer was:
                Quote: IS-80
                Oh well, the Finns there by chance did not help the Poles write history?

                Once again, Gru, the Bolsheviks tried to set fire to both Helsinki and Warsaw with a communist fire. Broke off in the 20s, both there and there. It was not the Finns and the Poles who "wrote" it, this is Russian history as it is.
          3. Doctorleg
            Doctorleg 14 November 2013 19: 35
            +3
            Quote: hert
            Quote: IS-80
            By the way, the Red Army was practically sent against "white Finland" in the same years, which the Finns kicked their ass, like the Poles

            they kicked him, and for some reason the result of this nader was the appearance of Karelia as part of the USSR, the transfer of the border into the interior of Finnish territory. Or does defeat always end with the acquisition of territories? n-yes The strange, irrational logic you have ....- or rather its absence: pull phrases out of context and throw them away. This speaks of the organization of intelligence at the level of a yard dump. Study the sources, analyze, generalize them into a single whole, we are taught this in high school, unlike probably yours ..... PAN hi

            You should also read more closely. it was not about 1939
      2. Yuri Y.
        Yuri Y. 14 November 2013 15: 04
        +3
        You see, it talks about the state of their mentality towards Russians and their stupidity on the basis of this (your persuasion will not help to convince). They lost the Polish-Lithuanian state only on the basis of this, you see from what time it sits in them. Again, with the filing of Western intelligence services of the West of that time wassat , namely the Vatican. If they had not started the persecution of the Orthodox, it is not known what the world would look like now. The Orthodox simply got up and left, and then they were pugs in terms of quantity. I have a clear picture: a small little pig looks perplexedly after a quietly leaving hefty Russian, then with a furious face rushing to catch up (like now I will punish). Since then, it is worth Russia to weaken as they are right there, and the West always plays on this thread.
        Quote: Turkestan
        In February 1920, the 20th White Guard group of General Bredov was interned in Poland,

        And here, too, instead of accepting the White Guards and sending them to the Bolsheviks, let them kill each other, no, we better drive away even these Russians (let it be worse). This is evident in relation to the prisoners. Although historically I don’t even mind, Russia is what it is and thanks to their attacks (Poles). And I think the same zapadlo to speak out against athletes and fans, although it’s dripping on my nerves, you won’t get those.
      3. Turkestan
        Turkestan 14 November 2013 16: 42
        +4
        And I agree with your conclusions.
        But what about the international humanitarian treaties that were in force at that time in the world, which Poland was obliged to fulfill as a subject of international LAW.
        But what about the genocide organized by POLAND against Belarusians and Ukrainians in the territory they occupied, where 800 uprisings of the local population took place only in 1922.
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 21: 25
          +1
          Quote: Turkestan
          But what about the international humanitarian treaties that were in force at that time in the world, which Poland was obliged to fulfill as a subject of international LAW.

          Soviet Russia, Ukrainian SSR, Byelorussian SSR, West Ukrainian Republic (there was one in Galicia) were not recognized by anyone. Formally, it turns out that they were not subjects of international law. There was a division of the heritage of the collapsed empire between the uluses of the Russian state. And the main organizers of this storm were the Russians, represented by the Bolsheviks, and the Poles, represented by Pilsudski. Plus the Germans, the British, who were also not averse to snatching a four-thread for themselves. And also all sorts of small-town nationalists, Cossacks, anarchists, in the east of the ex-empire - the Kazakh "Alash-Orda", and later the "Kokand government", in the Caucasus, Turkish influence became more active, etc. The mess is shorter.
          Quote: Turkestan
          But what about the genocide organized by POLAND against Belarusians and Ukrainians in the territory they occupied, where 800 uprisings of the local population took place only in 1922.

          The Poles, of course, made life for foreigners (Belarusians, Ukrainians, Jews) life is not sugar. But the Bolsheviks also turned a bunch of peasants against themselves. How many rural riots did the Bolsheviks have to put out with blood just because of the notorious "surplus appropriation"?
      4. yastr
        yastr 14 November 2013 16: 52
        +8
        I, as a native of the BSSR with the Poles, are not on the way. He lived near Lida until the Strategic Missile Forces were withdrawn. I saw you. Frankly, I do not like them. Nothing to do with them. I am a Belarusian. I am with the Russians.
        1. Altona
          Altona 14 November 2013 17: 52
          +4
          When I served in the Red Banner Belarusian Military District, in the Soviet Army, our privateer was called Jundzil, a Pole, naturally ... But there were 1988-1989, and there were Lithuanians with Latvians, Ukrainians and Belarusians, of course, Moldovans ... us interethnic garbage, and did not even tease each other on this topic ... Everything was as usual, the whole division along the line "normal kid-brake", nothing more ... There was really one eccentric, boasting that it was a Cossack, but A Cossack is not a nationality, but an estate, although now the crazy and turned to the whole Kubanka will run ... Many Zapadentsi are arrogant, like my former sergeant ... I found a polka on leave, I wrote letters to her in a notebook of 12 sheets ... I deliberately do not mention the eastern peoples ...
          They are faster than the Poles to figure out how to get out or steal, do not go to the grandmother ... But in general, everything is difficult with the Poles ... There is frank trash (Brzezinski, Kaczynski), but there are Rokossovsky and Jaruzelsky ...
      5. Walking
        Walking 14 November 2013 20: 58
        +2
        Quote: Marek Rozny

        And the Poles remember perfectly how the Russians during the time of tsarism treated the Polish rebels. Poland in the blood was repeatedly drowned by the gentlemen of the Romanovs.


        That's just about the bloody suppression do not need to talk. Quite the contrary, it was the Poles who began to pour blood attacking unarmed soldiers, peasants, and their compatriots who served Russia. But after the suppression of the uprising, there were practically no executed; the most malicious were sent to Siberia, the rest were forgiven. It is not necessary to declare so indiscriminately the drowning in the blood of Poland. here on the site there were several articles about Polish uprisings
        1. densh
          densh 14 November 2013 21: 26
          +3
          I, who lives in Ukraine and knows her history, with all these laments about the unfortunate, bloodied Poland, would like to discuss them exclusively with obscenities. If you suddenly come across such a patriot-mourner, take an interest in him that he knows about the town of Kodnya.
          As Mikhail Stanislavovich Tchaikovsky wrote in his memoirs:
          I was born in the village of Galchintsy, Volyn province. Zhytomyr district, in Kodnensky it comes, 13 versts from Berdichev, this commercial Jerusalem of Israel, in Dnieper Rus, 9 versts from the "holy" Kodnya, where the Gaidamaks of Gonta and Zheleznyak were punished with a sword all around and the Hangman for the glory of the King of Poland and the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Such fear was then brought to the Ukrainian people, that today this people, pronouncing a threat or a curse, repeats: "so that the holy Kodnya does not pass you!"
          And if it begins to spread about the atrocities of the Haidamaks, take interest in the root causes.
      6. Setrac
        Setrac 14 November 2013 21: 45
        +1
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Poland in the blood was repeatedly drowned by the gentlemen of the Romanovs.

        By the time the Romanovs were over, Poland was drowned in blood by the Holstein. In addition, it was drowned poorly.
    2. Peaceful military
      Peaceful military 14 November 2013 14: 09
      +5
      Quote: Turkestan
      About the same way they treated the white army of Yudenich, forced to retreat to the Baltic. They passed through the border in small groups, then took away weapons, after another kilometer all valuables, and then clothes. So, as one of the historians put it, they didn’t beat on the “ideological passport”, but simply on the Russian face.

      Not just, but just and not just in the Baltic states, but in Estonia. And not in small groups, but all at once, having arranged the next villainy. Having agreed with Yudenich on the passage through its territory subject to preliminary disarmament. After disarmament, instead of passing through the territory, they really stripped and drove to a concentration camp in the swamps, to obtain peat, where everyone simply died out from typhoid and hunger.
    3. iConst
      iConst 16 November 2013 22: 11
      0
      Plus. Poles were never white and fluffy. So the question of who "owes" whom remains open.

      According to history, they were always offended: why Europe considered their gentry (chivalry) second-rate. This is reflected in their historical novels about medieval Poland.

      PySy: "they will answer us for Susanin ..." (paraphrased, "Brother 2") laughing
  • Andrew-001
    Andrew-001 14 November 2013 13: 07
    +7
    Quote: Marek Rozny
    Brest, Lviv until 1939, as you remember, belonged to Poland. We took their land

    Warsaw until 1917, as you remember, belonged to Russia. We gave them our land.

    And how did they repay us for this ?! They invaded our territory in 1918 and declared it theirs. And when we in 1920 unsuccessfully tried to expel them, they drove our prisoners to concentration camps and starved them, and the cavalry was trained in saber chopping on them.
    "According to the agreement of 1921 on the exchange of prisoners (an addition to the Riga Peace Treaty), 65 thousand prisoners of the Red Army returned to Russia. If the information about 200 thousand captured and the death of 80 thousand of them is correct, then the fate of about 60 thousand more is unclear. man."
    Against this background, 4 421 Poles shot by the Germans in Katyn are somehow not impressive.
    1. Marek Rozny
      Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 16: 37
      -4
      Quote: Andrew-001
      Warsaw until 1917, as you remember, belonged to Russia. We gave them our land.

      Warsaw was an occupied province of the Russian Empire. There was no voluntary accession of Poland to Russia.
      And what "your" land did you give to the Poles?
      Quote: Andrew-001
      They invaded our territory in 1918 and declared it theirs.

      Nobody attacked the territory of the RSFSR. Pilsudski's army entered the lands of the former Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Of course, Pilsudski was legally wrong, but Western Ukraine, part of Belarus and Lithuania - it was a single country. Poland was not trying to recreate "Greater Poland", namely the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, the Polish-Belarusian-Lithuanian union. At the same time, Poland did not encroach on the integrity of Ukraine and officially declared that it had no claims to the Ukrainian SSR.
      Do you live in Russia? If so, then the Poles did not attack Russia in 1920.

      Quote: Andrew-001
      "According to the agreement of 1921 on the exchange of prisoners (an addition to the Riga Peace Treaty), 65 thousand prisoners of the Red Army returned to Russia. If the information about 200 thousand captured and the death of 80 thousand of them is correct, then the fate of about 60 thousand more is unclear. man."

      Official military historians of Russia recognized that there were less than 20 thousand dead prisoners of war. Which is consistent with the arguments of the Polish side. The difference in the assessment of the dead is 1-2 thousand people.
      1. Turkestan
        Turkestan 14 November 2013 16: 50
        +1
        As a result of the war started by Poland against Soviet Russia, the Polish army captured over 150 thousand Red Army soldiers. In total, in combination with political prisoners and interned civilians, more than 200 thousands of Red Army soldiers, civilians, White Guards, anti-Bolshevik and nationalist (Ukrainian and Belarusian) militia turned out to be in Polish captivity and concentration camps.
        1. Marek Rozny
          Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 17: 16
          0
          Quote: Turkestan
          As a result launched by Poland against Soviet Russia

          Soviet Russia in 1920 is the RSFSR. At the same time, I recall that the Ukrainian SSR and BSSR were independent states. The Soviet Union did not exist yet.
          The Poles did not invade the territory of the RSFSR and did not intend to invade. The task of the Polish army to go to Vilna, to support the local supporters of the recreation of the Commonwealth and restore the republic within certain historical limits.
          Roughly speaking, it was not the Polish army that attacked the army of the RSFSR, but the Russian army entered the territory of independent states and attacked the army of a third party. Well, if legally.
          And if in a normal way, then the Poles with the Litvinians were going to create their own country, which, of course, did not fit into the plans of the Bolsheviks, who planned to obolshevichnit not only the territory of the ex-Russian empire, but also enter Germany. And here, Panimaesh, the Psheks began to bother, instead of fanning a revolutionary fire, they began restoration of the medieval Zhecha. More often than not according to the plans of Lenin and Trotsky.
          I don’t know what kind of power a simple farm Belarus or Lithuanian wanted, but the Bolsheviks were determined to unambiguously unify both the Litvins and the Psheks. Therefore, a war with Warsaw was inevitable. And sho is characteristic, the local population did not support the Red Army ...
      2. Andrew-001
        Andrew-001 16 November 2013 03: 03
        +1
        I will return your words to you:
        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Warsaw was occupied province of the Russian Empire.

        The question of whether it was "occupied", whether it joined voluntarily, or from time immemorial was in this state can no longer be considered.

        Quote: Marek Rozny
        No one attacked the territory of the RSFSR. The Pilsudski army entered the lands of the former Commonwealth. ... the Poles did not attack Russia in 1920.

        You say that the former Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (part of it in the form of Poland) attacked the lands of the former Russian Empire (Little Russia and Belarus - that is, Russia) - and you immediately declare that there was nothing of the kind - is that how?

        Quote: Marek Rozny
        Official military historians of Russia recognized that there were less than 20 thousand dead prisoners of war. Which is consistent with the arguments of the Polish side.

        Official historians of the 3rd Reich recognized that the introduction of German troops into Czechoslovakia was carried out for its own good. Which is in full agreement with the arguments of the Polish side (which also occupied Czechoslovakia) - do you want to believe ?! After the collapse of the USSR, Russia's "military historians" were ready to admit anything - the main thing was to pay grants on time. And one could directly turn to "Herr Humpbacked" (ugh 3 times on his grave) - he would have admitted at all that the Red Army in 1920 did not lose a single person on the Polish front, and the Poles shot red caviar at the Red Army soldiers.

        P.S. All of the above does not exclude the presence in nature of a chill by humanly normal Poles.
  • vkrav
    vkrav 14 November 2013 13: 17
    +3
    "The smaller the mongrel, the higher it lifts its leg." (C) Do you think why the fuck and other shitcrats needed defeat in Chechnya so much? Just so that these mongrels could yapping at Russia!
  • Odysseus
    Odysseus 14 November 2013 13: 30
    11
    The article is not bad, but there is one fundamental error in it. Poland is considered as a state here, which is incorrect since at the moment it is simply a territory that does not have independent statehood.
    Moreover, Poland is a territory controlled by both the European Union (the youngest owner) and the United States (the big owner). It is therefore senseless to consider any actions of Poland or Poles as independent, since Poland does not exist as the subject of significant decisions. It was necessary to pay attention to them. First they need to conduct a national liberation revolution.
    So far, this has not happened; for any problems created by Poland, the European Union and the United States should be responsible, and any decisions regarding the fate of Poland or the Poles should be made by negotiating in Brussels, Washington, and for the future in Beijing without what Poles themselves think about this.
    1. pensioner
      pensioner 14 November 2013 17: 24
      +2
      Quote: Odyssey
      The article is not bad, but there is one fundamental error in it. Poland is considered as a state here, which is incorrect since at the moment it is simply a territory that does not have independent statehood.
      Moreover, Poland is a territory controlled by both the European Union (the youngest owner) and the United States (the big owner).

      Odysseus! hi
  • Unisonic
    Unisonic 14 November 2013 13: 42
    +5
    Poland and Russophobia are synonyms. There are many reasons for this. The main one is a Russian peasant, whom the Poles had for centuries considered an uneducated and dirty barbarian from the East to build an Empire that the Poles had just dreamed of, and which had never succeeded in doing anything like that. And what's more, Russia has also subjugated this very Poland to itself in the end. This is the base, the foundation of Polish Russophobia - the Poles have it in their blood and will not go anywhere. Well, further on this foundation are bricks of the Katyn type, with which they have already buzzed all our brains. Fate is a cruel thing and the fall of an airplane with a bunch of the most notorious Russophobes near Smolensk is certainly a cruel irony of fate, its mockery of Poland.
    Well, Polish Russophobia, of course there is one thing that can send it to the dustbin of history. This is the folding of the Russian state, either in its entirety, or before the Russian principality within the Moscow region. Then the Polish Russophobes will finally calm down.

    My opinion.
    1. edge
      edge 14 November 2013 15: 04
      +1
      Quote: Unisonic
      This is the curtailment of the Russian state or the whole

      there is another option, the resettlement of Poles across the territory of the Yamalo-Nenets Autonomous Okrug and related areas; the Yakut guys will hang out great, and it will be useful for the Psheks to live in the plague, to run around for the Oleshki .... drinks
  • Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 14 November 2013 13: 57
    +8
    During the times of the USSR, etc., neither in Poland, nor in the Baltic States, nor in the Ukrainian SSR, nor in Central Asia, nor in the Transcaucasia, nor in the North Caucasus, there was no scent of Russophobia. Why did it bloom? Someone will say that it smoldered, and the totalitarian regime brutally suppressed, that's why they were afraid. Bullshit, I say. Using the example of Estonians, among whom I had quite a few good acquaintances (I still have quite a few), I boldly declare there was no Russophobia, and even now, it is not among the normal title ones. Again, judging by my native Estonia, it began, as if on command, in 1988, after the so-called. "Singing Revolution" and the creation of a "Popular Front", through the media. It was so dashing that many Estonians simply apologized. And this wave of Russophobia is not weakening, and the daredevils from the titular, trying to protect the people from this infection, are more rotten than the KGB.
    So all this is a circus ordered and well paid for by "partners", and there have been, are and will be in any society.
  • Stasi
    Stasi 14 November 2013 14: 15
    +3
    Few people know that Poland, having signed an alliance agreement with Hitler, was also preparing to attack us. So in the event of a war with the USSR, the command of the German-Polish army was entrusted to Pilsudsky. But for unknown reasons, Hitler attacked Poland and the idea of ​​a joint German-Polish army did not materialize. If we talk about Katyn, we, in turn, have every right to remind the Poles of the Red Army tortured and executed in Polish camps. It is useless to tell the Poles that you should not live in the past, they are incorrigible. It’s time for Putin to give the go-ahead to Germany about the German lands that were transferred to Poland by the will of Stalin, let the Germans return their eastern lands.
    1. Tartary
      Tartary 14 November 2013 15: 46
      +1
      Quote: Stasi
      It’s time for Putin to give the go-ahead to Germany about the German lands that were transferred to Poland by the will of Stalin, let the Germans return their eastern lands.

      Again, bring the Germans a little closer?
      In my opinion, the layman, speaking of the European Union, where Germany occupies a leading place in political and economic affairs, we can safely say: - The 4th Reich took place ...
      1. Stasi
        Stasi 15 November 2013 13: 09
        0
        You are mistaken, the 4th Reich these days is the United States. And Germany, despite its leading position in economics and politics, is in the humiliating position of a cash cow in the EU, paying a freebie to Eastern Europeans. Of course, the Germans themselves created the EU in many respects, but the position of the euro wallet is beneficial for Eastern Europe and the United States, they are hardly satisfied. I am sure that soon the Germans will send the whole EU to hell, introduce their own brand and will not give the EU a penny anymore but will spend it all on themselves. We need to strengthen ties with Germany, compared with Poland, the Germans are much more adequate and respectful towards us, despite the fact that we fought a lot with each other.
  • mr_Doom
    mr_Doom 14 November 2013 14: 36
    0
    Brad, comrades, it was a crowd of miserable, cowardly people hiding their faces, together feeling the strength they walked and smashed everything, if in the place of our embassy any such would not have changed, and even more so to call the whole country `` Russophobic '' ... Yes, the same thing as I think the cars they burned, to talk about renofibia, for example.
    1. Fox
      Fox 14 November 2013 15: 13
      +3
      Yes, no. Just the proximity of a POLITICALLY PUNISHY Dwarf at the borders of a political giant causes scabies of the pubis in an attempt to obtain preferences from an overseas host.
      Poles live with this enmity- Babos get.
      No, ts, "repentance" will not remove "resentment".
      While the "offense" is well sponsored, they will be "offended".
  • Horn
    Horn 14 November 2013 14: 45
    +3
    Poland is a hyena country.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 14 November 2013 15: 06
      +4
      Churchill said so, and was right. But do not put an equal sign between people and authorities.
    2. pensioner
      pensioner 14 November 2013 17: 20
      +3
      Quote: Horn
      Poland is a hyena country.

      Yes, perhaps a rat or even less - a brazen mouse. Hyenas are even afraid of lions. Especially females with puppies ... And who is afraid of Poland?
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 14 November 2013 17: 39
        +1
        Distinguish Poland and the Poles.
        1. pensioner
          pensioner 14 November 2013 18: 04
          +3
          Dear Lopatov! It is about Poland, as a state entity, with its political and ideological system, which I am talking about. And with the Poles, who are usually called simple, I probably had a chance to communicate and more than you (I'm not sure here, of course, but still ...). In Stary Oskol, for example, in 89-93, in Minsk at 90m. Not so long ago in 2007 in Kursk. Somewhere else, I don’t remember where. The feeling I got from communicating with the former CMEA by the beginning of the 90s formed the following (ess-but at the household level): the Yugoslavs are friends, unambiguously, the Germans are not friends, but respected people, the Bulgarians are a fig in their pockets, the Mongols are younger brothers (even a Mongolian friend was at the Choka University Chuuinbolsan - national master of sports in chess), the Poles are definitely not friends. Not enemies, of course, but not friends - for sure. They always turned their face away during conversations, pedalized the moment of ignorance of Russian, and when Rokossovsky was mentioned, they switched to selected Russian mat. Moreover, without an accent. I say it again - at my personal, everyday level. Moreover, the latter circumstance was especially surprising to me. After all, we were brought up in the spirit of internationalism! Four tankers alone are worth something! As a former person from science, I tried to understand the reasons for such an attitude towards the USSR on the part of the Poles - and to my surprise I did not find a rational explanation! This was one of the most amazing discoveries for me personally in the era of "perestroika". And I crossed paths with them often and for a long time ...
          1. pensioner
            pensioner 14 November 2013 22: 38
            0
            Quote: retired
            Choka Chuinbolsan

            Previously mistaken, remembered: Choka Chuuilanbatr !! 100 pounds! Find him and ask him: how did life turn out ...
  • Alexandr0id
    Alexandr0id 14 November 2013 14: 52
    0
    "mutual love" between Poles and Russians is already so old and commonplace that it is not even interesting.
    such tricks will and will happen, do not even pay special attention to them
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 14 November 2013 15: 04
      +4
      This is more of a myth. There is no "mutual love". I remember that I was fermenting in Grodno with psheks, when we learned that we put pine needles in Seltsy on their mass graves (this is a tradition), they tried to swing me, barely fought back.
      1. densh
        densh 14 November 2013 21: 54
        +2
        From an old joke about the film: If the Russians gave us another tank, one Georgian and one dog, then we would end the war in Tokyo. lol
        But to be honest, in childhood I watched the film with great pleasure. hi
      2. I am
        I am 14 November 2013 23: 11
        0
        Cool movie. Like it very much. I dziewczyna w tym filmie trochę do mnie podobna i też jest ruda.
  • Samsebenaum
    Samsebenaum 14 November 2013 14: 56
    +7
    I just want to call on the Poles - "Calm down finally!"
    What is the use of demonstrating your negative attitude?
    Then they attacked the fans from around the corner, now the embassy ...
    You do not humiliate us, but only yourself ...
    By the way, according to the laws of the pendulum, all deeds are returned.
    Aren't you afraid for your compatriots? After all, the Poles come to Russia ...
    Live at home and do not twitch, this is stupid.
    Let me remind you of the saying - "you can't beat your butt with a whip."
  • PureGUN
    PureGUN 14 November 2013 15: 18
    +3
    Vanya Susanin to help them.
  • RPD
    RPD 14 November 2013 15: 34
    +1
    even Pilsudski spoke impartially about his own people
    1. 11111mail.ru
      11111mail.ru 15 November 2013 18: 33
      0
      Quote: RPD
      even Pilsudski spoke impartially about his own people

      He was Litvin.
  • iConst
    iConst 14 November 2013 15: 39
    +2
    One of the reasons - the Poles themselves do not hide it - is the so-called "Polish ambition".

    The whole movie was dedicated to this.
    One of the arguments is that in Poland there was already a university of a European scale, and in "wild" Russia they were still impaling and tearing their nostrils ... And then Poland was included in the Russian Empire. It's a shame to them ...
  • Ilya Mikhalych
    Ilya Mikhalych 14 November 2013 15: 58
    0
    As my dad would say - not from a great mind.
  • shasha
    shasha 14 November 2013 16: 00
    +1
    well and dog crav or crev in one word they
  • MG42
    MG42 14 November 2013 16: 14
    +4
    It is difficult to remember the periods when the Poles treated Russians well .. >> in the late period of perestroika under the USSR, I still had a chance to visit Poland for the first time, even then there was quiet hatred among the unbiased Polish inhabitants, what can we say about a centuries-old history ..
    Is that a Polish film about tankers and a dog demonstration of friendship .. three tankmen drank three hundred ..
  • olviko
    olviko 14 November 2013 16: 29
    +3
    "Well, why are we better? We calmly shared it with the same Germans in the same 30s. The USSR and Poland were very hostile to each other."

    One of Hitler’s most active allies was the Anglophile elite of Poland. Liberal propaganda is silent that a year after Hitler came to power in 1934, the Pilsudski-Hitler Pact was signed, almost word for word coinciding with the treaty, which was later called the "Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact." The agreement was concluded with the direct participation of a high-ranking Polish diplomat Tadeusz Brzezinski (father of Z. Brzezinski), who until September 1939 was an active conductor of Poland’s policy as an ally of Hitler Germany. Working in Germany during the heyday of Nazism in 1931-1935, he did everything to create this union. After, being appointed ambassador to the Soviet Union, Brzezinski categorically refused on behalf of his country to give a guarantee of admission to Soviet troops to repel the alleged fascist aggression. It should be noted that the Poles in the 1930s had an extremely high opinion of themselves, they even formally raised a question in the League of Nations demanding that they be provided with colonies, on the grounds that they have a large and growing population and high birth rate. On September 30, 1938, Poland, together with Germany, attacked Czechoslovakia, introducing its army at the same time as German troops in the Tieszyn region. Instead of the SS men, they also marched in Karlovy Vary and Karvin. And the Polish army went even further - outside the Czech Republic, capturing four mountain villages in Slovakia - Gladovka, Lesnitsa, Sukhaya Gora and Tatransky Yavorina. Even during the 1938 Khasan battles between Soviet and Japanese troops, Poland, which was actually a militaristic state, with the longest term of active military service and the ability to put up to 5 million soldiers with a huge trained reserve, turned to Japan with the initiative to open a "second front" against Soviet Union, beating up to this and Germany. Therefore, it was no accident that there were all further provocations of Japan and the “unknown war” between the USSR and Japan at Khalkhin Gol (May – mid-September 1939). The defeat of the Japanese by the Soviet army then convinced Germany that they were not ready to attack Russia yet. Therefore, then Hitler preferred the partition of Poland. The same Churchill, who certainly cannot be suspected of sympathizing with Russia, said that "Poland behaved like a hyena among lions, trying to snatch its piece of booty." Hyena both lions and tore.
  • FlyEngine
    FlyEngine 14 November 2013 16: 42
    +2
    It is strange that, having imperial ambitions, Poland dutifully exposes its mouth to the American fly. Real empire, bravo! How much can you trade yourself, Poles? Are they not disgusted by themselves?