Military Review

Gunsmiths of Dagestan

64
Once Dagestan was actually a center for the production weapons. In the old days, the mountain republic was called the "forge of arms" of the Caucasus. Now everything has changed a lot, the master has not yet been translated, but the weapon craft is on the verge of extinction.


Gunsmiths of Dagestan


I arrived in Makhachkala one day later than the main film crew, and could not get acquainted in detail with the work of the gunsmith, who, according to the plan, spent the night. We drove in for the filmmakers early in the morning, and in 10 minutes I ran around the workshop and took some photos. Then, in different villages, I met several people who are somehow connected with the weapon business and were shooting something. Of course, a certain mix came out, but still, quite interesting, worthy of a deeper and more detailed study. Next.

Before you make another sword or a saber, first sketches are drawn, the form and patterns are worked out, down to the millimeter. Only then begins work with the metal:



Wall with samples of different weapons in the workshop:



Father has several sons. Since childhood, they adopt the skill, as they say from grandfather to father, from father to son. But the tendency today is such that children are increasingly looking at the TV or IPhone and the delights of sitting behind the machine already attract few people. Masters earn money not so much:



Dagger:



In one aul, we were shown a real quaden sword. A fragment of this sword, decorated with cloisonne enamel on the title photo of the post:



Cane with "secret":



Such a “secret” does not seem to be enough:



Ornament scabbard pattern. Hellishly painstaking and time-consuming work:



What would have been clearly seen, sfotkal large one wooden vase which is also decorated with a wire pattern. Here you can see that the whole pattern is thin wire hammered into a tree:



And here is another master who makes pistols and shotguns. In the photo, he solves the pen to the gun:



So he will have such a cool gun then. Very beautiful thing:



At first I thought it was a sham, but no. It has a working mechanism, and there is silicon, from which a spark is cut:



Gunpowder is stored here:



And one more exhibit - a gun!



Being in Dagestan, we looked into the city of Kizlyar. For half an hour we were allowed to see the production of knives in modern workshops. This is how a modern factory works, practically without manual labor, stamping. True, Kizlyar has individual models, single-piece, or as they say, designer ones, to which a lot of human effort and talent is attached. But this again, piece goods. Anyway...

The machine according to a given program embroiders a cross) Sandblasting cuts 5 mm steel like scissors paper, impressive:



Piles of blanks of which then make a bunch of knives. The pun turned out)



People work at the machines, not like their colleagues in their workshops:



Here in this workshop we met a real blacksmith. His products are valued several times more expensive:



And I was standing next to a T-shirt without sleeves ...



Now a woman is involved in this type of work. Blade Ornaments:







On finished knives, they write with the laser the name of the product, the logo, and there may be some kind of drawing that is incorporated by the program:



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  1. Timeout
    Timeout 14 November 2013 08: 58
    +6
    I wanted to bring "Osman" from the Caucasus during the second campaign, but no burst, they took it away during the inspection ...
    1. Jaros81
      Jaros81 14 November 2013 15: 03
      +1
      Question as a specialist. How do you like Zlatoust?
      1. RPD
        RPD 14 November 2013 15: 43
        +3
        Zlatoust holds the brand, and Kizlyar as Dagestan cognac (((through the unit fawn
      2. Timeout
        Timeout 14 November 2013 17: 15
        +3
        Quote: Jaros81
        Question as a specialist. How do you like Zlatoust?


        Zlatoust, this is still a young enterprise. They also try to produce Damascus, damask. I do not argue there are outstanding samples, but this is all modernity. The production of Caucasian masters is technology from centuries ago, except for laser engraving. So no one has canceled their identity, daggers and sabers will always be in demand, as long as they will bear the stigma of Caucasian masters!
  2. Walking
    Walking 14 November 2013 09: 43
    12
    Thank you for the article. It’s better to do the work of creating such beautiful things than to run around the mountains while fighting and blow yourself up for other people's interests. I have several sabers, drafts and daggers from the 19th and 20th centuries in the collection; I have recently acquired modern works - beauty. Melee weapons fascinate.
    1. Djozz
      Djozz 14 November 2013 11: 08
      +9
      I have an avatar fighting dragoon checker sample 1882, Zlatoust damask steel with blackening and a gold notch, take it in your hands, the blood plays! By the way, not a remake, but an original.
  3. Semurg
    Semurg 14 November 2013 10: 00
    +5
    nothing to say except crassssot.
    1. Nagaibak
      Nagaibak 14 November 2013 14: 28
      +2
      Semurg "nothing to say except krassssot."
      I fully agree with your statement !!!
  4. bazilio
    bazilio 14 November 2013 10: 13
    +4
    Thanks to the author for the selection. Very beautiful blades and trunks. Art objects
  5. The fat man
    The fat man 14 November 2013 10: 48
    +3
    alas, the price of such masterpieces starts from several hundred to several thousand euros request
    1. Walking
      Walking 14 November 2013 10: 57
      +2
      If all this money was received by the master himself, what would be the incentive, and so basically it goes into the wrong hands of different businessmen.
    2. Slavs69
      Slavs69 14 November 2013 11: 54
      +7
      Shashak dragoon, produced by the factory in the city of Kizlyar costs 7 thousand with copecks of rubles, daggers Cossack or Dagestan from 2000 rubles. Go to the site, look. But this is mass production, piece goods at a price of about 30.000 and higher.
  6. xan
    xan 14 November 2013 10: 57
    +6
    I watched the film "Castles of France". There, an aristocrat of an ancient family boasted of his collection of weapons, which his ancestors began to collect. The most valuable he called the dagger of the early 19th century, bought in the Caucasus by the ancestor of a Frenchman. He took it off the wall, pulled it out of its scabbard, and on the blade was written "Shemakha" in Russian.
    1. Yeraz
      Yeraz 14 November 2013 16: 32
      +3
      Quote: xan
      I watched the film "Castles of France". There, an aristocrat of an ancient family boasted of his collection of weapons, which his ancestors began to collect. The most valuable he called the dagger of the early 19th century, bought in the Caucasus by the ancestor of a Frenchman. He took it off the wall, pulled it out of its scabbard, and on the blade was written "Shemakha" in Russian.

      Shemakha is a city in Azerbaijan.
      1. Timeout
        Timeout 14 November 2013 17: 22
        +3
        Quote: Yeraz
        Shemakha is a city in Azerbaijan.

        And the city of magnificent gunsmiths-blades!
      2. Kir
        Kir 14 November 2013 17: 33
        0
        And it’s worth adding that it was the capital of the Caucasian Kagonate, but the question is from what times the weapons trade has been going on there, since there are doubts that the roots are Hazara.
        1. Timeout
          Timeout 14 November 2013 17: 39
          +2
          Honestly, what roots are on the drum! Blades are appreciated, and will be appreciated! Regardless of the master, there are simply very few left ...
          1. Kir
            Kir 14 November 2013 17: 58
            +2
            And then let me disagree, where the roots are not the last thing, not without reason, everyone strives to ascribe to themselves the best of history. and it’s not uncommon to attribute foreign antiquities to its history. And you say .......
            And about the fact that it’s not enough, because they inspire everyone that money is the main value, and in what way it doesn’t matter, how many years to teach a craftsman-creator? and how many more years must He be in the profession to be noticed and appreciated? and then he still won’t earn that money.
            1. Timeout
              Timeout 14 November 2013 18: 14
              +2
              In those days, this was not considered art, but was considered mastery! If the blade was able to withstand the oncoming blow and not break, and after that also halve the adversary, this is a good blade and the one that does not cut a copper jug, ordinary iron!
              1. Kir
                Kir 14 November 2013 18: 24
                0
                And how do you draw the line between this and that? Yes, there is such a term as the art of doing something, whether to cook steel, or to make engraving, and Mastery also speaks of the level of doing!
    2. smersh70
      smersh70 14 November 2013 17: 56
      +2
      Quote: xan
      “Shemakha” was written on the blade in Russian.
      Well, you probably still remember Pushkin .-- I opened up ... and the girl,
      Shamakhan Queen
      All shining like a dawn
      Quietly met the king.
      Like a bird of the night before the sun
      The king fell silent, looking into her eyes,
      And he forgot in front of her
      The death of both sons.
      And she is in front of Dadon
      Smiled - and with a bow And then, exactly a week,
      Submitting to her unconditionally
      Bewitched, delighted,
      Feasted at her Dadon fellow
  7. sasha.28blaga
    sasha.28blaga 14 November 2013 11: 00
    +2
    I like this.
  8. IRBIS
    IRBIS 14 November 2013 11: 48
    +6
    So what's the problem? It is necessary to return mountain eagles to tribal nests. Let the crafts revive, the seniors take over the experience, and not jackalats in Russian cities. It may also learn to behave with dignity, like their ancestors, to respect the laws and other people. There are also places for dancing, if it suddenly cracks, and the fans are grateful. Well, there, let them knock down!
    1. smersh70
      smersh70 14 November 2013 17: 25
      -2
      Quote: IRBIS
      There are places for dancing, e

      Quote: IRBIS
      Need to return mountain eagles to tribal nests


      and YOU then, I wonder where ... smile because as far as I know .... the ancestors of the Slavs are not from the Moscow region or the city .... or YOU have no dances ... only pantamime .. winked .
      1. Kir
        Kir 14 November 2013 17: 40
        +5
        And then everything is simple. Unfortunately we see more often than not Worthy Caucasians, but rabble with ambitions and connections that are not needed in our hell. since not workers.
      2. IRBIS
        IRBIS 15 November 2013 09: 37
        +3
        Quote: smersh70
        and YOU then, I wonder where ...

        And I am Russian and already at home - in Russia. In the Russian city. And I'm not torn for a "long" free ruble or other currency. And in the most difficult times for my Motherland, I have always been its citizen.
        Quote: smersh70
        or YOU have no dances ... only pantamime ..

        We have dances, only we don’t dance in the squares and streets to demonstrate our youthful daring. Everything is in order with our heads.
        1. Kir
          Kir 15 November 2013 11: 11
          +1
          IRBIS Excuse me But here it's not so much in the "head" but in the fact that our so-called authorities and the so-called law enforcement agencies condone, so the question is more to them, and unfortunately there are many of ours, but not in spirit, but in blood. and they are using your definition

          ".... I have always been a Citizen (more appropriate with a capital letter) ....."

          citizens only by registration and in a formal language, but not according to their essence !!!,
          So it turns out that the problem with the "head" - the representatives of the People is with Us (People), not with them.
          1. IRBIS
            IRBIS 15 November 2013 13: 44
            +1
            Quote: Kir
            So it turns out that the problem with the "head" - the representatives of the People is with Us (People), not with them.

            I agree with you - permissiveness and impunity are to a greater extent the reasons for all this.
  9. biglow
    biglow 14 November 2013 13: 50
    +2
    the last generation of gunsmith craftsmen is living, but there is no replacement, their children do not want to work, it's easier to use drugs in Russia in cities ...
  10. Marek Rozny
    Marek Rozny 14 November 2013 16: 53
    +3
    Nice damn it. Caucasians that Dagi that Azerbaijanis have always been able to make beautiful weapons.
    The steppes had a completely different attitude to weapons. Our weapons seem so gray and boring, despite its real menacing and practicality. It is always difficult to take your eyes off Caucasian products.
    1. biglow
      biglow 14 November 2013 20: 18
      +3
      Quote: Marek Rozny
      Nice damn it. Caucasians that Dagi that Azerbaijanis have always been able to make beautiful weapons.
      The steppes had a completely different attitude to weapons. Our weapons seem so gray and boring, despite its real menacing and practicality. It is always difficult to take your eyes off Caucasian products.

      you forgot to see about Russian damask steel ... In Russia, the art of manufacturing chemical weapons is just reborn. Even in our non-weapons region, where such traditions have never existed, but there are a couple of famous masters whose names are known at least in the CIS
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 14 November 2013 20: 54
        +3
        Quote: biglow
        you forgot to see about Russian damask steel ...
        The Carolingian sword (named for the Merovingian dynasty) was very widespread. Through the Scandinavians it was also received by the Slavs, who modernized the manufacturing technique (from which the sword improved the lethal properties) and bent the guard towards the blade. Now the sword began to be called Russian. And the Russes themselves, transforming its name to the familiar "Horse" - the sun, began to call this species harazhuzhny.
        The manufacturing process of the haralug is shown in great detail in the movie "The Nibelungs."
        First, two rods of steel were cast - carbon (which was obtained in two ways: lined with coal during calcination in the furnace, or by adding chips, coal, graphite or crushed diamond powder to the crucible), then twisted the rods over the fire into one billet, and then forged to desired shape and mounted on the shank of the combined handle (crosshairs, cuttings and counterweight). Dales, which served to prevent deformation during a chopping and stabbing strike, as well as to facilitate weapons, were pierced in the blade itself, but, in some cases, they were forged separately - from soft wire intertwined in the form of a mesh, and this innovation allowed to reduce the destruction of the blade .
        Such a sword was very expensive - about 4,300 kg of gold.
        From the XIII-XIV centuries, in Russia, with the advance of the horse troops and the emergence of the so-called “Mongolian fashion”, the sword was pushed aside by a saber, lighter in weight and capable, due to its bend, to inflict a much longer and deeper wound when cutting blow.
        But this is a completely different story.
        Russian swords are not forgotten. I have a friend - 2 things unite us in this hectic life --- love of rock music and Russian edged weapons. He is a blacksmith. He forges beautiful things, in fact they show themselves average .. He just knows Masterpieces of weapons and trying to improve. That's right.
        1. Thunderbolt
          Thunderbolt 14 November 2013 21: 00
          +3
          On the subject: I have a Caucasian dagger. I want to "wash" all the silver and hang it on the wall in the hall, but so far there is an excellent blade in the closet good Very goodIn general, I have a sports category for sports fencing (rapier) and I’ve stuck more to the Japanese katana with my heart, although it hurts a little, but ... And now shoot bully !
          1. Mikhail3
            Mikhail3 14 November 2013 22: 30
            +2
            No need to "wash"! So hang up. With a rag, only work the oil blade and is good. Just back up the scabbard well. It is a very dangerous thing and it wants "blood" cruelly. They got to indulge, with all the precautions, and you see - a corpse among the guests ... It happens quite often.
            1. Thunderbolt
              Thunderbolt 15 November 2013 00: 47
              +1
              Quote: Mikhail3
              No need to "wash"!
              No, I’ll wash it, I’ll beat it to the ceiling and it will be a substitute for the chandelier! And for the guests I’ve got a little hot drinks
  11. Tanysh
    Tanysh 14 November 2013 18: 02
    +3
    Answer Timeout SU
    Please don’t have to talk about that you don’t know well. The Zlatoust company AIR in 2010 took 1st place at the Berlin exhibition.
    Want to have fun? Go to the exhibition The blade is held in Moscow 2 times a year. I missed 2 and regret that I could not go. That's where the music of metal and the work of Russian masters from which are breathtaking.
    I go to the Arkhangelsk stand only by spending all the money. Otherwise, you won’t get anything for work.
    1. Kir
      Kir 14 November 2013 18: 14
      +2
      And he probably does not know the monument to ANOSOV, and he also does not know the history of this Glorious city, coupled with the history of the Anosov "bulat". also apparently did not see the ZIK mark on the same daggers of the USSR Navy and Demidov's "Sobol", otherwise it’s not clear where this came from.
    2. Timeout
      Timeout 15 November 2013 02: 43
      0
      Have I lowered Chrysostom somewhere? You probably did not carefully read my words, I said that they are modern! All knives are produced using modern technology and modern equipment, of course they are trying to restore the technology of their ancestors, but this is a drop in the bucket. So there is simply no connection of centuries. And in the Caucasus, they basically do everything manually according to technology from their grandfathers. Well, at the expense of the beauty of the products, I did not say anything at all, they really produce amazing products.
  12. Kir
    Kir 14 November 2013 18: 08
    +1
    Honestly, in spite of the fact that the report was pleasing, I just didn’t understand why and the Masters hit the general stream of incarnation of fantasy shit in the Noble Steel (about the fesla dagger), or I don’t know something, but with regards to Kizlyar, I already wrote that part of the art is done in St. Petersburg, but the main reason why the main historical centers of the Russian Caucasus are not named, if I don’t confuse it, there were 6 of them, five of which are in Dagestan and one in Ingushetia, is interesting what is happening to them now.
  13. The comment was deleted.
  14. Massik
    Massik 14 November 2013 18: 15
    +1
    On the market in Khankala, you can buy a factory knife for 4000 maximum, forged individual production costs 2 times more expensive. But they can immediately give you a nail at 70 or 100 and offer to cut it, and then look and try the blade.
  15. Misantrop
    Misantrop 14 November 2013 18: 42
    +3
    Quote: Marssik
    On the market in Khankala, you can buy a factory knife for 4000 maximum, forged individual production costs 2 times more expensive. But they can immediately give you a nail at 70 or 100 and offer to cut it, and then look and try the blade.

    In Severodvinsk, a similar knife made of case austenitic steel once cost 5 liters of alcohol. And they shredded their nails directly on a steel table into noodles. And after that they could shave
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 14 November 2013 18: 49
      0
      And how many cans of mm could be opened before blunting?
    2. albai
      albai 14 November 2013 20: 00
      +2
      Oh, it would be for hunting like that! And refresh and other work! It is a pity we are far from such steels.
  16. Misantrop
    Misantrop 14 November 2013 18: 59
    +2
    Quote: Spade
    And how many cans of mm could be opened before blunting?

    To sharpen it after quenching, it took two diamond cups, completely. This metal, by the way, is very interesting to heat up - it heats up to a yellow-straw color, and then cools down with the oven. Unlike conventional (pearlitic) steels, the resistance of which depends on the strength of the bond between the grains, and the "creep" depends on the strength of the grains themselves, austenite is actually a single crystal. To blunt it is VERY difficult. True, the price of this metal is off the charts.
    In a number of submarine compartments with a solid hull made of this steel (only not hardened) there are so-called "removable sheets". These are places where you can cut through a rugged case to replace massive equipment without dismantling a bunch of pipelines, systems, etc. And if they cut it in one place and then brew it, they cut it in another place. Since when welding, the metal is slightly sticky and then cutting it in this place is almost impossible even in a factory
    1. Kir
      Kir 14 November 2013 19: 33
      0
      And what about the diamond, the infection is salted and the speed also requires a certain one, otherwise it pours more than it processes. By the way, at one time they made several models (I saw only two) from some kind of "tricky" aviation, the same properties were the same, but at a price not very expensive than from "everyday" varieties.
      And about the banks, so from the valve, that’s the most.
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 14 November 2013 19: 55
        +1
        Quote: Kir
        Why diamond, the infection is salted, and speed also requires a certain
        The reason is simple - the rest do not take at all, they slide like glass. Green corundum is still somehow, but there the consumption of the circle is generally bad. So it was necessary with a diamond or elbor, with water from salting ...

        Valve steel is good for everyone, but ... afraid of temperature, fragile in the cold. My wife broke an excellent knife, trying to split the meat from the freezer. Half the blade just cracked ...

        There is a knife from the blade of an aircraft turbine. I would not say that it has a good cutting ability. But it’s not worth doing from ship’s steam - it’s steel that’s not at all
        1. Kir
          Kir 14 November 2013 20: 11
          0
          Excuse me, but then what is the strength of this miracle? If green, even the hard alloy is peeled. and on CN and CNT it is necessary to look at the range of operating temperatures.
    2. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 14 November 2013 21: 43
      0
      Most likely, titanium is simply added to the alloy. Could have been tungsten, but when welding it gives little ferrite, that is, it can be cut. You can (and even easily) cut it with titanium. But he is already terribly hard at the welding spot ... that is, it is fragile. If you would have itched your hands to try it - after welding it was necessary not to try to cut it but to crack it with a sledgehammer. He would have burst like a darling.
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 15 November 2013 00: 35
        +2
        Quote: Mikhail3
        hard ... that is fragile. If you would have itched your hands to try it - after welding it was necessary not to try to cut it but to crack it with a sledgehammer. He would have burst like a darling.

        After welding, the submarines go to sea. And often - to the extreme depths. Can you imagine HOW it compresses the case? The thread stretched at a meter height along A 12-meter compartment at 300 m depth center lies on the deck, I personally observed ... And there was no case that the weld seam burst request
  17. Misantrop
    Misantrop 14 November 2013 21: 01
    +1
    Quote: Kir
    and then what is the strength of this miracle?
    And hell knows, did not meet in reference books. I have never seen this steel used in the civilian sector of the economy ...

    It should also be borne in mind that the roughing of the face and the work "plane on plane" are quite different. And a lot goes "not according to textbooks". For example, a fast cut is perfectly processed with green (precisely along the plane), BUT at very low speeds and with cooling. Razor sharpening for 2/3 of the blade width is easy and hassle-free. And in no textbook such a mode can be found
    1. Kir
      Kir 14 November 2013 21: 39
      0
      By the word peeling, I meant rough processing, but with regards to quick-cutting and stainless steel, let's say it is not easy to notice the "critical moment" because of the low thermal conductivity. I don't like a razor, I like a double "wedge" - stronger, but if the hands are not crooked, it's not so difficult, that's for sure, which cannot be said about a flat one. For high-speed modes, so everywhere they write from 200-600 rpm. And on a quick cut, raspberry and purple are good.
      Well, in terms of hardness, I don’t think that for 65HRC, since the legendary diamond with the correct thermal value goes exactly to this value. In general, the mind is a "working knife" from 56-60.
  18. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 14 November 2013 21: 16
    0
    I'll be trampled ... The weapon is beautiful. Melee weapons are beautifully cold beauty of perfection and millennia of experience invested in each line. The bullshit shown in the pictures is disgusting. Enamels, hammered wires, wild, disgusting shapes ... rubbish. THIS is the master ?! How was it when the masters of the Caucasus were masters? "Look - gourde!" When these footers deservedly disappear, the ancestors insulted by their existence will finally sigh calmly ...
    And yet, people, "make damascus and damask" ... Vanka, look at some pimples! You fool, not a pimple, but a dirigbandel! Yearning...
  19. Misantrop
    Misantrop 14 November 2013 21: 38
    +1
    In the arms of the Caucasus, I was always surprised by the shape of the handle of a dagger. As soon as I tried to take it in my hand - NOT CONVENIENT. Under which palm are these handles? ... what
    1. Kir
      Kir 14 November 2013 21: 43
      +1
      Well, I already said "fungus" in the palm rests, well, in general, it comes out like a butcher only length gauge, although it has a cutting-cutting property, it is not clear for what kind of butcher.
    2. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 14 November 2013 22: 16
      +1
      For any. It's a dagger. Looked on the net dumki on this topic "experts", neighing ... Understand, this is not a knife. They can't do ANYTHING. Nothing at all, do you understand? It is gripped into a fist with a firm grip, forward or backward. Then they are injected. All. Ideal for backstabbing. It is also great for pinning an unprotected person in the chest and striking him from below in the stomach. All.
      Haven't you had a chance to practice hand-to-hand combat? Funny initial techniques "from the knife" are hammered in in the first lessons. How can you fight off a knife like that? I twisted my brush and finished the fight with an undercut. But these techniques in all Russian gyms forced the trainer to train until they dripped from their ears. But against the Caucasian dagger wink
      The Japanese, inclined towards beauty instead of courage, called this "battle" the art of iai-jutsu. Well, simply, in Caucasian style - both horsemen grab for daggers! And whoever was the first to stick it in the belly was a hero. You can't complicate the handle here ...
      1. Misantrop
        Misantrop 15 November 2013 00: 29
        +1
        Quote: Mikhail3
        Have you ever been involved in melee beginnings?
        That's the thing that happened. And not only the beginnings. Moreover, not trusting his personal impressions, he was repeatedly interested in special forces officers who had serious experience of the mountain war. ALL have the same opinion - it is difficult to imagine a more useless object in the mountains. And I have been engaged in knives for about 40 years, I have repeatedly made knives to the same officers of the Special Forces on their orders. They didn’t ask to do anything closely resembling a classic dagger. On the contrary, sincere laughter followed his proposal lol
        Quote: Kir
        Well, I already said "fungus" in the palm rests, well, in general, it comes out like a butt
        At SUCH distance from the tip of the blade? Wrist is not a pity? With the slightest deviation from the axis of the impact, a dislocation is almost inevitable request
        Quote: Mikhail3
        it is caught in a fist with a firm grip, direct or reverse. Then they are pricked. All.
        You can break your fingers when meeting with something harder than a stomach without an armor with a very high probability. Since three fingers will lie in the narrowing of the handle (if the palm is not for children). Have you tried using such a dagger SEVERE to poke at something? I personally did not dare, and I do not advise you, I feel sorry for the fingers. Own, which is characteristic.
        And the length of the blade? Is it possible for two to pierce at a time? lol Or to stab a rider by poking a horse in the stomach? wassat

        With regards to all these jewelry such as sunflower seeds, cloisonne enamel, false decorative elements, etc., all this is good on the wall or on the belt. But not in the hand in a serious situation. A similar thing is good in the form of a STATUS or REWARD. But not as a weapon request
        1. Kir
          Kir 15 November 2013 01: 45
          0
          So the native said the identity, so there are questions to the carriers of the Caucasian culture. And now the question about your manufacturing experience, you didn’t have to deal with B-titanium or something similar (not ferrous metal), or you just have a piece of titanium lying around and it seems like there are 50 units in it, but the contacts with the production are lost, Can you advise whom to contact?
          1. Misantrop
            Misantrop 15 November 2013 10: 47
            0
            Quote: Kir
            can you advise whom to contact
            How do I know where you live? what Most often they make either daggers (a piercing weapon, it keeps its shape perfectly, does not bend), or knives for fishermen or for diving (light weight, with a light handle has positive buoyancy, is not afraid of moisture). And poor cutting properties can be compensated with the help of a microsereutor (as in kitchen Tramontins). It is processed quite well, but, since it has a very low marginal processing speed, at low speeds. And with cooling, it heats up quickly during processing
            1. Kir
              Kir 15 November 2013 11: 24
              0
              No, I meant "consultation" and not direct communication, about mozheli, well, given the thickness and other dimensions (thickness 10mm), it is more likely either a hatchet or a throwing device, although the "fool" will come out that still, about the revolutions yes I know and also good the salinity of the abrasive, plus the loss of properties at temperatures over 400, I don't really like the ikrosereitor - read one-sided sharpening, ideally wave-like - tearing sharpening.
              By the way, and you don’t know the Amer’s for KPPR sheep (obsolete) from which they drive, because there is such a shadow on the wattle fence in the light of hardness and other characteristics of the blade that .....
              1. Misantrop
                Misantrop 15 November 2013 11: 43
                +1
                I made a 8-sided dagger with a diamond-shaped blade from an 4 mm strip. Does not "ring" on any protective frame, but Kevlar armor sews like a newspaper without effort lol But here is the ax, that IMHO is not very thrown from it - the mass inertia is too small, it will not stick or stick well. And the microcerator (unlike the usual one) is good because it comes down almost symmetrically.

                And salting of the stone can be avoided by the abundant use of coolant and the selection of stone and revolutions. And there are special abrasives for machining titanium. They are similar in structure to volcanic rocks which have almost dried up from old age and are not plastic under the fingers. Quite small grain, but titanium is nibbled much more efficiently than grinders. Recently I bought myself another one. Marking on it 14A5NSM
                1. Kir
                  Kir 15 November 2013 16: 00
                  0
                  I have funny memories with the grinder in general, and just with my "titan", one former air navigator decided to cut it, well, well, such sparks that at least read, but the cut is zilch !!! And as for the "stones" for titanium, I saw that they are of some kind of pink color interspersed with white or gray grain.
                  According to the thrower, I wanted to make a copy of the Wasp, there is still a relief of the "handle" due to double-sided sampling and 4 holes - displacement of the center of mass, and with an ax and a sapper from VT, they cut it, and here it should be all the more.
                  By the way, do you fully customize the cups, or just make the samples, the last bad for all 100, though it's easier.
                  1. Misantrop
                    Misantrop 15 November 2013 17: 16
                    0
                    Quote: Kir
                    I saw "stones" for titanium, they are of some kind of pink color interspersed with white or gray grains.
                    My dark gray color, with a light green-yellow (damn, you can’t even describe properly)
                    Quote: Kir
                    to make a copy of the Wasp, there is just anyway the relief of the "handle" due to double-sided sampling and 4 holes - displacement of the center of mass
                    You can move anywhere if the mass itself is. And if her - the cat cried? I have a copy of the AKM bayonet made of titanium, in Sverdlovsk they did it back in the USSR. Shitty stuck, no matter how you throw it - there is not enough mass to push the fibers of the tree when hit.
                    Quote: Kir
                    and you fully customize the cups
                    But I don’t think about what the question is ... what
                    1. Kir
                      Kir 15 November 2013 17: 38
                      0
                      And everything is simple, I mean that, according to the mind, it is necessary not only to center, but in general to make a different base and to "sharpen" the whole whole, and after that, shoot-put as much as you like, you do not need such fuss as usual. I worked at the sentry and there I had to catch the sizes, up to a micron, and the cups and the circles were bought cheap, so they adjusted it up to the regrinding of the diamond itself.
                      1. Misantrop
                        Misantrop 15 November 2013 20: 09
                        0
                        Quote: Kir
                        I mean that in the mind it is necessary not only to center, but in general to make another base

                        Ah, here's the thing ... I’ve been sharpening home-made, powerful and low-speed. The base is made with high quality, with several seats. And there is a mark on it. When installing another stone, I deduce the mark in the upper position and pulling the stone slightly, I select so that there is minimal runout (namely at the upper position of the mark). After that I pass the stone with a straightened diamond and ... I also draw a mark on it opposite to the one on the shaft. So at the next installation, combining the marks in the upper position, I get a precisely set stone (the force of gravity is constant and always acts in one direction, so that the stone sits exactly). Otherwise, there’s no way, you’ll try a dozen and a half stones for another piece of metal, while you pick one that is optimal ... request
  20. uzer 13
    uzer 13 14 November 2013 22: 56
    +2
    In Soviet times, when it was impossible to buy anything, I made a hunting knife from a spring from a truck, found a piece of rubbish in a landfill of suitable size. The spring was forged on an industrial hammer to a thickness of about 5 mm. Steel is very strong and hard (brand U for all it must be), it does not need hardening, it is very difficult to handle. You cannot drill it with a drill, hardness is high. It is also problematic to sharpen, if only with a diamond tool. In short, it’s a very laborious manufacturing process. But the blade turns out reliable, will not fail. I even cut through it road through the bush instead of a machete.
    Kizlyar knives make a good impression. There are models that I would like to have. The prices are also divine, the price / quality ratio is good.
    1. Misantrop
      Misantrop 15 November 2013 00: 40
      +3
      Quote: uzer 13
      brand U for all estimates should be
      Spring steel, maybe even 65G or equivalent. And in fact, not bad for knives, if the term is done correctly
    2. Kir
      Kir 15 November 2013 02: 37
      +3
      And at Kizlyar, just some of the models are made from 65G, and in terms of hardness they do it normally, unlike any raspers (about 67 units), and with regards to the spring, it's generally around 56, and it's better to drill, if of course there is a drill with insert (though what depending on the diameter of the hole, otherwise the entire cutting part or even the whole may be) VK6M, even better TTK or "ceramics" VOK50 or harder, by the way, when the hard alloy fails, starting from 60 units, just VOK50 or harder go, all the more since we (USSR-Russia) have long ago had the material of 1,1 diamond standards.