Military Review

How? Again reform in the Ministry of Internal Affairs?

202
The other day law enforcement officers celebrated their professional holiday, in the course of the reform “Nurgaliyev-Medvedev” renamed together with the name of the structure itself, which we have long been accustomed to calling police. It seems that the renaming date is not round, and therefore the holiday did not spill over to the mass festivities of the Russian police, but there was a lot of interesting things around the holiday this year. And this is worth talking in more detail.


First of all, the Russian law enforcement officers in a peculiar manner congratulated the VTsIOM, which conducted a sociological study on the attitude of Russian citizens to employees of the internal affairs bodies. One of the questions asked to respondents was as follows:

Do you trust the police officers of our region or not?


We present the final result - the answers that were given by the Russians during the VTsIOM survey.

“Definitely trust” the regional police in Russia 7% of respondents, “rather trust” - 39%, “rather not trust” - 34%, “definitely do not trust” - 11%, 9% of respondents found it difficult to give a more or less unambiguous answer.

If you believe the results presented by VTsIOM (and in the course 1600 people were interviewed in 42 subjects of the Russian Federation), it turns out that 45% of respondents are negative to the police in the regions, and 46% are positive. Taking into account the statistical error voiced by the VTsIOM employees with a maximum of 3,4%, we conclude that there is an equal number of positive and negative things in Russian society in relation to law enforcement officers.

VTsIOM proposes to compare the results of the 2013 survey of the year and other years. For example, in the 2005 year, there were a total of 37% positive evaluations of the work of law enforcement officers, and negative - 57%. Such figures (once again - if they can be trusted) indicate a decrease in the number of dissatisfied employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

Another question was asked during the study:

How do you generally evaluate the work of the police in our region?


Here, 21% of respondents answered “very well” and “well” - also 21% responded, the rest either rated the work of the representatives of the internal affairs bodies as “moderate”, or found it difficult to answer. Eight years ago, the ratio was 13% versus 33% not in favor of positive ratings.

Thus, VTsIOM showed us and us that we treat the police better than we did the police a few years ago ... Well, it turns out that there are positive aspects of the reform, and a gift to the employees of the bodies for their professional holiday ...

Interestingly, in February of this year, the Ministry of Internal Affairs itself decided to conduct such research (although it was purely on the Internet), and since our people “visiting” the Internet turns into more courageous in their judgments, the result was appropriate. It turned out that more than half of the users who spoke out (only in the first few days, about 40 thousand people shared their opinion) did not see any improvements in the work of the police lately. Changes for the better saw 27% versus 51% not seen.

Then the deputy head of the Ministry of Internal Affairs Sergey Gerasimov spoke about this result:

It often happens: mother goes with the child and scares that if he behaves badly, the police officer will take his uncle. And if she said “he will save you,” this would be the main reward for us.


In general, it turned out that the whole thing is not in the police, but in the “improper upbringing” of the parents of their children, and in the “wrong attitude” of society towards the law enforcement officers. Interesting logic, especially if you imagine a situation where a mother says to her little tomboy: you will behave badly, an uncle policeman will come and save you ... Well, the only possible benefit is a tomboy for about five minutes, at least, will try to understand the meaning of this phrase, and therefore time for pranks will forget ...

However, it’s time to digress from the wonderful numbers of statistics. Especially when you consider that the Russian law enforcement officers “congratulated” not only VTsIOM, but also a completely unexpected character in this regard - the unforgettable Alexey Kudrin. Why unexpected? Yes, because lately, Alexey Leonidovich has increasingly spoken about the economic threats to Russia, the reduction in the growth rate of the financial system of the Russian Federation, and then suddenly he was carried towards the Interior Ministry. It turned out that statements about the work of the Ministry Kudrin did not allow himself to be accidental. The fact is that the ex-Minister of Finance is the head of the so-called Committee of Civil Initiatives and, moreover, has recently been a member of the public council under the Ministry of Internal Affairs. It was the entry of the chief economist of modern Russia into this very advice that gave him (Kudrin) an excuse to think about how “we better reform the Ministry of the Interior”.

How? Again reform in the Ministry of Internal Affairs?


Many will say: how to reform? Reform again ?! Have not yet been reformed?

Mr. Kudrin himself answers such readers to their poignant questions, believing that the reform of the Ministry of the Interior needs to be started again. That is - not to continue, but to start over.

It turned out that the Civil Initiatives Committee, headed by Alexei Kudrin, carried out painstaking work in close contact with the Indem political research foundation and employees of the Institute for Law Enforcement Problems (IPP) of the European University in St. Petersburg. After such contacts, the idea of ​​how to reform the Ministry of Internal Affairs came into being. This idea was voiced by the ex-Minister of Finance.

He said that for more effective work of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the police should be divided into three sectors: municipal, regional and federal. It turns out that such a division can increase the level of people's confidence in law enforcement officers, and trust in turn will raise the Russian economy to acceptable values. To ensure that the trust was comprehensive, Alexey Leonidovich associates propose to delegate to the federal police sector the investigation of serious and especially serious crimes. Regional policemen will be engaged in traffic regulation, investigating a minor crime. Well, the burden of law enforcement, the solution of local turmoil and everything like that will fall on municipalities. In this case, the municipalities will report on the results of the work done exclusively to the local authorities. In addition, Kudrin proposes to take away the Interior Troops from the Ministry of Internal Affairs, handing them over to the Ministry of Defense, so that the Ministry of Internal Affairs would feel complete freedom in the fight against crime ... And according to the Kudrinsky reform plan, the issuance of driver’s offices, the Ministry of Transport licenses .

Such a reform, according to the Civil Initiatives Committee, will make it possible to optimize (oh God! - again optimization?) The number of law enforcement officers (reduce the number by 22-27%), and the reform does not require investment. Well, and besides, it is declared that the police will, after such a reform, become closer to the people ... The authors of the reform project are confident that such steps will almost double the budget of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. Here, it turns out, where the economic Kudrinskaya vein manifests itself.

Of course, raising the budget by finding out internal reserves is good. But, to be honest, the logic at the same time looks, to put it mildly, strange ... After all, even if we assume that the Interior Ministry will hand over the Internal Troops to the Ministry of Defense and the licensing of private security firms to the Ministry of Justice, will not these additional agencies be required to take on new functions? That is, at the suggestion of Kudrin, savings in the Ministry of Internal Affairs will be based on the increase in funding for other ministries? To take water in one knee of communicating vessels and pour it into another ... For a budget, neither hot nor cold. Or budget vessels are not reported?

And the thesis that after the division of the system of the Ministry of Internal Affairs into three levels, each of which will deal exclusively with its field of activity, the police will become closer to the people, does not look unequivocal. The reason for this ambiguity is that in some cases, the so-called municipal police can finally turn into a sort of local nukers - guards of the interests of municipal princes. There are fears that such “nukerstvo” is already capable of consolidating itself at the legislative level in the regions of, for example, the North Caucasus. And if we take into account the fact that the police are proposed to cut down on the number of employees by a quarter, then we will have to forget about law enforcement in, let's say, problem areas. You can certainly hope that an honest and incorruptible precinct "Uncle Stepan" will turn any of the plots entrusted to him into a branch of heaven on Earth after he submits exclusively to local authorities, but to feed such hopes is somehow not serious ...

If you practice this kind of logic (the logic of new optimizations and cuts), then you can agree at all that it’s time to disband the Ministry of Internal Affairs, and for all our people, for our own safety, they must keep the ax under the bed or the cobblestone in the bosom ... not cheap whether Alexey Leonidovich ...
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  1. Evgeniy-111
    Evgeniy-111 13 November 2013 08: 55 New
    19
    After dividing into three levels and distributing subordinate departments to other ministries of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, you can safely liquidate!
    And with the success of such a thing - to deal with others, the Ministry of Defense, for example ...
    1. Nicholas C.
      Nicholas C. 13 November 2013 09: 07 New
      24
      Municipal police (or something like that) was in the 90s. Well, these were such bandits and crooks that the real bandits seemed to be graduates of a boarding house of noble maidens. If I exaggerate, then a little bit.
    2. Valery Neonov
      Valery Neonov 13 November 2013 10: 47 New
      +9
      Shaw AGAIN !! ... belay
      1. alone
        alone 13 November 2013 19: 49 New
        +6
        and what? Why only Syroezhkin? I also want to sing !!!

        what's so surprising? everyone is busy cutting. and Kolokoltsev the worse?

        Surely start with a uniform laughing
    3. PSih2097
      PSih2097 13 November 2013 15: 16 New
      +2
      Quote: Evgeniy-111
      And with the success of such a thing - to deal with others, the Ministry of Defense, for example ...

      It’s much further to do, then ... And so I already got on the most I do not want.
      Many will say: how to reform? Reform again ?! Have not yet been reformed?

      tady really need to format ...
    4. w.ebdo.g
      w.ebdo.g 13 November 2013 19: 08 New
      +1
      Now they are actively trying at various levels to reduce Russia's defense against terrorism, which has already come to the Caucasus.
      So, it is not surprising that Pido.raz Kudrin blathers about the police.
      When provocations begin (as it began in Syria) in cities, everyone will wait for help from the police ...
      and the fact that there are a lot of freaks among the militia - so far this has not gone away.
      and a banal reduction of 30% does not fix the system.
      how do you determine who is "good" and who is "bad"?
      but to reduce the defense of the rule of law at the same time easily by 30%)))
      and in a real battle there are no "good and bad" policemen - there is a Russian warrior. Only in times of real difficulty will the nation unite.
      And if, God forbid, Russia conducts the same scenario as in Syria, then we will win, of course, at the cost of a lot of blood, but this war will rally the nation around its leader.
      Most of the people, too, were unhappy with Bashar, and now they are carrying his posters and going to bed with photos under his pillow. The morning begins with a prayer for his health. That’s what kind of popularity the president received, which only 3-4 years ago only the lazy did not discuss in a negative light.
      The same thing will happen with our President.
      May God give him health, good luck and prudence!
  2. domokl
    domokl 13 November 2013 08: 57 New
    25
    The police reform was carried out in general to solve a simple, but carefully concealed problem ... Remove a quarter of the composition (22%), and put the rest in such conditions so as not to rock the boat.
    This led to the fact that now many territories are simply not covered from crime. People are forced to defend themselves. After the reform events, we all know.
    Once, my mother called me the main difference between a good housewife and a bad one. And as life showed, she was right. A bad mistress at the beginning throws out an old thing, and then goes to look for a new one in the store .. But a good one, on the contrary, buys a new one in the beginning, and then throws out the old ...
    Reform should not start, but continue. What works now should work. And what does not work should be reformed. Replaced by new. Stop kissing the West on the upper thigh ... It’s time to live with your own mind.
    1. os9165
      os9165 13 November 2013 09: 10 New
      10
      This led to the fact that now many territories are simply not covered from crime. People are forced to defend themselves. After the reform events, we all know.
      Exclusively to the point. By the number of employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, we are ahead of the rest, and there is no one to walk on the earth. Sponsored managers. As something ventures Medvedev wait "Kemsku volost"
      1. matross
        matross 13 November 2013 10: 55 New
        19
        Quote: os9165
        . By the number of employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs we are ahead of the rest, and there is no one to walk on the earth. Sponsored managers.

        Bravo, comrade! Right to the point. All subdivisions above the district level, with the exception of investigative, operational, expert and special ones - ballast and dependents, mailed papers and digitizers. At the district level, the same ballast is about a quarter of the train. And on the ground, one and a half operatives alive and three district police officers. This is where real reform is needed! All employees know and understand this. It is necessary to remove these hordes of managers and increase the number of teaching staff, district police officers, OVO squads, operas and trackers by 2-3 times. And let them work, and not report to exhaustion and stupor! All other "reforms" are GOVNO !!!
        1. Shur
          Shur 13 November 2013 23: 28 New
          +1
          If you just copy everything will be the same the old fashioned way. And businessmen are even more numerous, like traffic cops. The number should be optimal, really give green to operational and investigative workers. Further increase in crime prevention measures, gradually but surely. Wider involvement of the public in the maintenance of order at the level of the common people. Give us the floor, let us also decide together. If the same neighbors live in the house, who own the whole house, then there must be a government, there must be a general decision to evict these people (sorry, it hurts). And not only. Oh, a lot of good things for themselves would be decided by the people on the ground. And simply the PPP will not help to inflate. Now, if they have control before people give an answer, then another matter. Now they are in their "hostel". They are not servants of the people. No. All other options are oprichnina.
          1. studentmati
            studentmati 13 November 2013 23: 38 New
            +1
            First and foremost, it is necessary to teach everyone, absolutely everyone, to observe the Law! The old fashioned way, turn.
            1. iConst
              iConst 14 November 2013 10: 40 New
              0
              Quote: studentmati
              First and foremost, it is necessary to teach everyone, absolutely everyone, to observe the Law! The old fashioned way, turn.

              Well, and how does it seem? I have a playground near my home - it’s always there ... early and bruises.
              A law prohibiting drinking on playgrounds has come out!

              And now the death number: forty meters from the site a strong point! Its windows overlook the site. And to get into it you need to go along the path five meters from this very site!

              So what? - Nothing!

              И up chom a bazaar?
      2. Viking
        Viking 13 November 2013 11: 46 New
        +7
        Quote: os9165
        and there is no one to walk on the earth. Sponsored managers.

        It resembles a classic inverted triangle - where there are a dozen inspectors, supervisors, guides, and others and others ... per patrol officer ...
        1. PSih2097
          PSih2097 13 November 2013 15: 21 New
          +3
          Quote: Viking
          It resembles a classic inverted triangle - where there are a dozen inspectors, supervisors, guides, and others and others ... per patrol officer ...

          Yes, no, not reminiscent, rather reminiscent of the structure of the US police:
          Level 1 - Police organizations in cities and towns.
          Level 2 - Sheriffs and the agencies they lead in the districts.
          Level 3 - State Police Units.
          Level 4 - Police organizations of the federal government, included in the ministries of justice, post, treasury, internal affairs, defense, etc.
      3. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 13 November 2013 12: 37 New
        +2
        Quote: os9165
        By the number of employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, we are ahead of the rest, and there is no one to walk on the earth.


        one thing is not clear:
        - how does your comrade combine, the fact that we have the most policemen in the world and the mass reduction of the number of these same policemen (can you imagine what is the current burden on Uncle Step in the countryside?)
        ?

        BUT wink transparent areas are on the way !!! fellow
        So win !!!

      4. 31231
        31231 13 November 2013 17: 52 New
        +1
        By the number of employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, we are ahead of the rest, and there is no one to walk on the earth. Sponsored managers.


        Can you give me more details in figures from serious sources?
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 13 November 2013 18: 54 New
          +1
          Quote: 31231
          Can you give me more details in figures from serious sources?


          these figures are from the category - "investigations! sensations! scandals! and rumors !!!"

          wink
      5. Shur
        Shur 13 November 2013 23: 12 New
        0
        What were covered in the 90s?
    2. Tersky
      Tersky 13 November 2013 09: 45 New
      +5
      Quote: domokl
      .After the reform events, we all know.

      Alexander, hi ! I will add a little visual agitation, for a better perception of the consequences laughing(clickable)
      1. cosmos111
        cosmos111 13 November 2013 10: 44 New
        +3
        In the USSR: there were 2,1 policemen per thousand inhabitants. In modern Russia - 7,7.
        What is our police state.
        And the effectiveness of the palitsaevs in comparison with the Soviet police is zero (although there were enough problems in the Ministry of Internal Affairs during the USSR)
        Where there are more guards.
        Number of police officers per 1000 inhabitants:
        Russia - 7,7
        Italy 4,5
        Spain 4,0
        France-3,4
        Portugal 3,0
        Belgium-3,0
        Holland
        USA -2,3
        Luxembourg 2,0
        1. matross
          matross 13 November 2013 11: 22 New
          +8
          Quote: cosmos111
          the effectiveness of palitsaev compared to the Soviet police is zero

          Is this your personal "analytics" or do you have numbers? Maybe then we will try to compare the levels of criminalization of society and civil consciousness? And the word "club" is not necessary to rush, dear cosmonaut, Mr. Medvedev dreamed of this name in a nightmare, people have nothing to do with it!
          1. Shur
            Shur 13 November 2013 23: 48 New
            +1
            Why, not city police? What for colonial name-calling?
        2. Viking
          Viking 13 November 2013 12: 40 New
          +1
          Quote: Tersky
          I’ll add a little visual agitation, for a better perception of the consequences (clickable)

          By the way, this picture is not true. About the USA for example. The indicated number does not include the number of employees of the FBI (whose functions the police perform in Russia), the number of employees working in the sheriff’s departments, employees of the Secret Service (whose functions the police also perform in Russia, for example, the fight against counterfeiters) are not included
          1. Drosselmeyer
            Drosselmeyer 13 November 2013 14: 12 New
            +3
            Well then, add the staff of the Investigative Committee and drug fighters and counterintelligence agents (in Russia they perform some functions of the FBI).
          2. воронов
            воронов 13 November 2013 16: 14 New
            +2
            And partly the functions of the police for amers are performed by the maritime coast guard, these are not border troops in our understanding and their national guard during the emergency regime.
        3. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 13 November 2013 12: 59 New
          +3
          Quote: cosmos111
          In the USSR: there were 2,1 policemen per thousand inhabitants. In modern Russia - 7,7.


          As comrades have already noted, society in the USSR was not as criminalized as modern Russian society, --- this is ONCE;
          As I already said:
          - when counting, we considered everyone and explosives in particular, in the USSR, the Vovans went under the Ministry of Defense --- this is TWO;
          When bringing these ephemeral data, you personally asked the comrade if the employees of the DND were taken into account when counting, let’s say (those who don’t know the hint are those who were not few from Kaliningrad to Petropavlovsk-on-Kamchatka) --- THREE. hi
          1. Viking
            Viking 13 November 2013 13: 21 New
            +2
            Quote: Karlsonn
            As comrades have already noted, society in the USSR was not as criminalized as modern Russian society, --- this is ONCE;
            As I already said:
            - when counting, we considered everyone and explosives in particular, in the USSR, the Vovans went under the Ministry of Defense --- this is TWO;
            When bringing these ephemeral data, you personally asked the comrade if the employees of the DND were taken into account when counting, let’s say (those who don’t know the hint are those who were not few from Kaliningrad to Petropavlovsk-on-Kamchatka) --- THREE.

            And also I want to add that the above figures are not entirely correct.
            Using simple arithmetic, we can see the following:
            The population of Russia (as of 2010) is 142 856 536 people.
            Plus, the number of migrants located in Russia (and contributing a very, very large role to crime statistics) is from 5 to 15 million, depending on various sources. Take the average of 10 million.
            The number of police officers - 782 people (as of January 001, 01)
            So we divide the number of citizens of the Russian Federation + migrants by the number of police and we get about 1 policeman for 195 people. That for 1 thousand people is 5,1 employees.
            Which, of course, is not enough. And with a competent approach, with normal legislation, with the assistance of citizens themselves, in principle, they must ensure an appropriate level of security and the fight against crime.
            1. Shur
              Shur 13 November 2013 23: 54 New
              0
              I don’t know whether it’s true or not, but - "By January 1, 2012, according to the decree of the President of the Russian Federation of 01.03.2011 N 252, the maximum staffing of the internal affairs bodies, which are financed from the budget, will be reduced to 1 106 472 people."
          2. 7958
            7958 13 November 2013 14: 45 New
            +1
            Quote: Karlsonn
            Quote: cosmos111
            In the USSR: there were 2,1 policemen per thousand inhabitants. In modern Russia - 7,7.


            As comrades have already noted, society in the USSR was not as criminalized as modern Russian society, --- this is ONCE;
            As I already said:
            - when counting, we considered everyone and explosives in particular, in the USSR, the Vovans went under the Ministry of Defense --- this is TWO;
            When bringing these ephemeral data, you personally asked the comrade if the employees of the DND were taken into account when counting, let’s say (those who don’t know the hint are those who were not few from Kaliningrad to Petropavlovsk-on-Kamchatka) --- THREE. hi

            Here we have a BB with such calculations, then to the Armed Forces then to the Ministry of Internal Affairs they plus, to whom it is beneficial.
            1. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 13 November 2013 15: 01 New
              0
              Quote: 7958
              Here we have a BB with such calculations, then to the Armed Forces then to the Ministry of Internal Affairs they plus, to whom it is beneficial.


              More than sure, we and the entire prosecutor’s office calculated, unlike Western countries.
            2. воронов
              воронов 13 November 2013 16: 35 New
              +3
              Quote: 7958
              here we have explosives with such calculations, then to the armed forces then to the Ministry of Internal Affairs, plus

              The VV MVD of the USSR, and now the VV MVD of the Russian Federation, has never been and is not included in the structure of the Armed Forces of the USSR or the Russian Federation.
          3. воронов
            воронов 13 November 2013 16: 31 New
            +1
            Quote: Karlsonn
            VV in particular, in the USSR, the Vovans went through the Ministry of Defense --- this is TWO;

            There were never divisions of the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs in the USSR Ministry of Defense; there were NKVD troops, later the USSR Ministry of Internal Affairs troops, which included: the OMSDON named after F.E.Dzerzhinsky, operational regiments, special motorized police units (the same military units only in police uniforms), convoys and security units, military transport aviation of the Ministry of Internal Affairs Ministry of Internal Affairs, naval units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs Ministry. The structure is similar to that of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation. Except for the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation, there are no escort units; The Russian Federation is guarded by especially important state objects.
            1. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 13 November 2013 17: 16 New
              +1
              Quote: voronov
              There were never divisions of military units in the USSR Ministry of Defense. In the USSR there were NKVD troops


              I am in the know, as are the border troops, which also did not belong to the USSR Ministry of Defense, but here we are talking about something else!
              When counting, the Vovans were counted by the US, and the Amer National Guard was left out of the brackets.

              Quote: voronov
              OMSDON named after F.E.Dzerzhinsky, operational regiments, special motorized police units (the same explosives only in police uniforms), escort and security units, military transport aviation of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, naval units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. Approximately the same structure in the Ministry of Internal Affairs RF. With the exception of the convoy units in the MVD of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation, the escort and guard functions of convicts (zones) were transferred to the Federal Penitentiary Service of the Russian Federation. The Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation is guarded by especially important state objects.


              Thanks for the educational program hi, but as the son of an officer of the Internal Troops, I was brought up to date from childhood. drinks
              1. воронов
                воронов 15 November 2013 22: 48 New
                0
                Quote: Karlsonn
                as the son of an officer of the Internal Troops, I was brought up to date from childhood.

                Not every officer of the internal troops, as well as officers of other power structures, including the Defense Ministry, can and should thoroughly know about the structure of their departments. Especially during the times of the union, when they were supposed to know only what directly concerned them . Many of my acquaintances, VV officers, were surprised to find out that there were and are naval units in the MVD system. belay
          4. Shur
            Shur 13 November 2013 23: 51 New
            +1
            But, but not society, the community of power and those who have a trough. Do not be on top of support, they would have disappeared.
        4. ism_ek
          ism_ek 13 November 2013 23: 03 New
          +2
          In the USSR there were 12 million combatants. Every day, more than 400 thousand combatants went on duty. Plus it was full of bodies working with associate citizens from comradely courts to party organizations.
          ps across the United States Your data is greatly underestimated by them 1,1 million police, plus 0,5 million, national guards (analogous to our explosives)
      2. Renat
        Renat 13 November 2013 11: 00 New
        +3
        Here is another word that I can’t remember at all. POLICE.
        1. Viking
          Viking 13 November 2013 11: 52 New
          +1
          Quote: Renat
          from another word that I can’t perceive at all. POLICE.

          Do you normally perceive the police in France, Germany, China? Well, basically? All over the world, "police" is a law enforcement system, "militia" is a people's armed formation, often created on an irregular basis to conduct hostilities with external enemies.
          1. Egoza
            Egoza 13 November 2013 11: 59 New
            +7
            Quote: Viking
            Do you normally perceive the police in France, Germany, and China?

            The police - it was the PEOPLE! And protected the PEOPLE! And the "police" appeared here during the German occupation! If in "Europe" the occupation was "pleasant", then in our country it was not! And why do we need to look back at the whole world hostile to us? "Fashion is what I wear, not what fagot couturiers dictate to me."
            1. Viking
              Viking 13 November 2013 12: 20 New
              +2
              Quote: Egoza
              And the "police" appeared here during the German occupation!

              In fact, the date of the emergence of the police in Russia is considered not 1941, but 1718, when by decree of Peter the Great in St. Petersburg the post of Chief of Police was approved. The history of the police until 1917 was almost two centuries old. Well, there are no questions about the "Russian auxiliary police" created by the Germans during the Second World War - traitors to the Motherland, in general, what are the claims, by and large, to the tsarist police?
              1. воронов
                воронов 13 November 2013 16: 39 New
                +1
                Quote: Viking
                In general, what are the claims by and large against the tsarist police?

                Large because there is no king, no tsarist police, no tsarist Russia.
                1. RUSS
                  RUSS 14 November 2013 14: 59 New
                  0
                  There is no Secretary General, neither the Soviet police, nor Soviet Russia.
              2. Shur
                Shur 14 November 2013 00: 06 New
                +1
                In 1827, a special gendarmerie corps was formed, and Count A.X. Benckendorf was appointed his first chief, who had been identified a year earlier as the chief chief of the III department of His Imperial Majesty's own Chancery. The gendarme corps became the executive body of the III division. All of Russia was first divided into five, and subsequently into eight gendarme districts, which in turn were divided into branches. At the head of each district was a general directly subordinate to the chief of the gendarmes; a head officer was assigned to each province, subordinate to its district general. This local organization was amended by the Regulation of 1867: most districts were abolished, and provincial headquarters officers were renamed as heads of provincial gendarme departments. In 1880, upon the abolition of Division III, the head of the gendarmerie corps was entrusted to the Minister of the Interior, as chief of the gendarmes, but militarily the gendarmerie corps remained subordinate to the Minister of War.
              3. Shur
                Shur 14 November 2013 00: 07 New
                0
                Here are the gendarmes.
            2. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 13 November 2013 13: 10 New
              +3
              Quote: Egoza
              The police - it was the PEOPLE! And protected the PEOPLE! And the "police" appeared here during the German occupation!


              Totally agree! good drinks

              Where not: France, England, the USA ... the attitude towards the police is at best cautious, and usually hostile (it was only in the bloody USSR that children wrote books about Uncle Stepa.), I can do this at home when I was detained in the "monkey house" have fun, but over the hill I'll think about it three times.

              1. воронов
                воронов 13 November 2013 16: 43 New
                +2
                Quote: Karlsonn
                Where not to take it: France, England, the USA ... the attitude towards the police is wary at best,

                I totally agree with you, it is not for nothing that the people call them cops there, but the pharaohs, our "cops" sound much more noble. laughing
                1. Karlsonn
                  Karlsonn 13 November 2013 17: 30 New
                  +3
                  Quote: voronov
                  I totally agree with you, it is not for nothing that the people call them cops there, but the pharaohs, our "cops" sound much more noble.


                  Better on - "you" hi, personally, according to my impressions, the police there historically guard the wealthy and the police there are so what peculiar, that personally I would send all our belolentochnikov to see what it is - "cop lawlessness" somewhere in Europe with great pleasure.

                  All fans of the Western law and order, as well as those who hate "cops" are recommended to watch.

                2. RUSS
                  RUSS 14 November 2013 15: 01 New
                  0
                  The cop in the US is not an insult.
              2. studentmati
                studentmati 14 November 2013 00: 13 New
                +1
                "American police officer hit the woman mercilessly"

                Should drink less! Normal self-defense.
                1. The comment was deleted.
            3. Shur
              Shur 14 November 2013 00: 03 New
              0
              I need to be comfortable, don't give a damn about "fashionable". Fashion is the engine of consumption.
            4. RUSS
              RUSS 14 November 2013 14: 57 New
              0
              There was police in Russia even before 1917, and the police is a "militarized militia".
          2. Renat
            Renat 13 November 2013 12: 28 New
            +2
            Not all over the world the police. There are gendarmerie, carabinieri. Well, why didn’t we have police left? Recently, only the forum discussed the purity of the language. With this certification they are still smart. More than sure, normal cops for the most part could not get through it.
          3. PSih2097
            PSih2097 13 November 2013 15: 25 New
            +3
            Quote: Viking
            "militia" - a popular armed formation, often created on an irregular basis to conduct hostilities with external enemies.

            if on simple - the people's militia ...
          4. воронов
            воронов 13 November 2013 16: 38 New
            +3
            In Belarus, Ukraine, Kyrgyzstan, the police and nothing.
      3. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 13 November 2013 12: 48 New
        +3
        Tersky hi

        Comrade I will reveal the terrible:
        - Russia does not take first place in the number of police officers. bully
        She was awarded only the 3 place after Belarus and Brunei.
        But there is one point in the counting in Russia and the troops of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, and in the United States, no one considered the National Guard, nor did the FBI consider it, although they are engaged in federal crimes, such as robbery of mail or counterfeiting money.

        So all these figures should be considered based on who counted these numbers and why. drinks
      4. igor67
        igor67 13 November 2013 18: 23 New
        +1
        [quote = Tersky] [quote = domokl]. After the reform events, we all know. [/ quote]
        Alexander, hi ! I’ll add a little visual agitation, for a better perception, hello Vitya, that I doubt Israel’s account here, I don’t understand the policemen in our country, I mainly watch these Druze people, etc., in our city there are about 27 thousand people, a police station it was closed many years ago, one patrol car of two policemen rides around the city, as it does not fit the schedule
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 13 November 2013 19: 12 New
          +2
          Quote: igor67
          in our city somewhere 27 thousand people, the police station was closed many years ago, one patrol car of two policemen drives around the city, as it does not fit the schedule


          right now they will run over and tell you that in your city all 27 000 are secret agents of the police (and Zionism in addition), and the patrol car is purely for conspiracy. We know you wink each with a grenade launcher under the bed and a mortar in the trunk ... wassat

          1. igor67
            igor67 13 November 2013 19: 49 New
            +1
            [quote = Karlsonn] [quote = igor67] in our city there are about 27 thousand people, the police station was closed many years ago, one patrol car of two policemen drives around the city, as it does not fit the schedule [/ quote]

            right now they will run over and tell you that in your city all 27 000 are secret agents of the police (and Zionism in addition), and the patrol car is purely for conspiracy. We know you wink each with a grenade launcher under the bed and a mortar in the trunk ... wassat
            Well, the film is wonderful, I recently watched, in fact, in Israel there are big problems with crime, like in the 90s there are criminal showdowns, explosions, cops supposedly fighting terrorism, and they overslept their own, laughing but this is for locals born in Israel, and such rudimentary noodles do not suit me, I already passed all this in the 90th
            1. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 14 November 2013 12: 32 New
              0
              Quote: igor67
              but such noodles of our rulers do not suit me, I already passed all this in 90 e


              throws a hat on the floor
          2. studentmati
            studentmati 13 November 2013 23: 26 New
            +1
            Quote: Karlsonn
            Quote: igor67
            in our city somewhere 27 thousand people, the police station was closed many years ago, one patrol car of two policemen drives around the city, as it does not fit the schedule


            right now they will run over and tell you that in your city all 27 000 are secret agents of the police (and Zionism in addition), and the patrol car is purely for conspiracy. We know you wink each with a grenade launcher under the bed and a mortar in the trunk ... wassat



            Pretty boy! drinks
    3. Eugeniy_369
      Eugeniy_369 13 November 2013 12: 01 New
      +1
      Quote: domokl
      This led to the fact that now many territories are simply not covered from crime. People are forced to defend themselves. After the reform events, we all know.

      And how can this be if Russia ranks first in the world in terms of the number of police officers per 1000 people? population? Why increase the staff? And can these be made to work, and not "sticks" to draw? All sorts of excuses like there and OVO, BB, etc. taken into account, it is not necessary to bring it, they are all employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. What are the post-reform events? Have you changed the name? NOTHING CHANGED! Where there was crime and thieves, he stayed there.
      It seems that this article here is being discussed entirely by current or former employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs (or maybe the FSB?).
      There was no reform, the police themselves reformed themselves into the police. Gathered star pot-bellied the generals also figured out how to reform everything (blot out), well, what? Soiled. To entrust the Ministry of Internal Affairs with reforming itself is also a matter of asking a woman to voluntarily list her shortcomings No. .
      1. Viking
        Viking 13 November 2013 12: 54 New
        +1
        Quote: Eugeniy_369
        Che another staff increase?

        Redistribute. To increase the external and operational service at the expense of the "leading, checking and indicating" staff.
        Quote: Eugeniy_369
        All kinds of excuses like there and OBO, VV and etc. taken into account, no need to bring, they are all employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs

        OVO just conceived one of the first to come to the challenges. But BB, with the exception of some cases, has nothing to do with the protection of public order, it has nothing to do with the fight against crime, they have a different profile and tasks.
        Quote: Eugeniy_369
        To entrust the Ministry of Internal Affairs with reforming itself is also a matter of asking a woman to voluntarily list her shortcomings

        Okay. And who can carry out the reform? "Effective managers"? One of them offers something like that ...
        1. Eugeniy_369
          Eugeniy_369 13 November 2013 14: 24 New
          +1
          Quote: Viking
          Okay. And who can carry out the reform? "Effective managers"? One of them offers something like that ...

          I am not an expert, I will express my subjective point of view. The reform of the Ministry of Internal Affairs should be dealt with by a council, a group, a commission under the president, it is he who should make decisions, it should include employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and members of the trade union of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the FSB, experts, representatives of the public, in short, the public should take part in the reform. Alas, this will probably never happen under the current government. Now everything is being decided by a group of clans, groupings near his "Excellency of the President of the Russian Federation", and which "handful" will drip more on others, that is on horseback. I think you remember how one of the contenders for the post of Minister of Mr. Sukhodolsky was "leaked". Kolokoltsev himself fell to the appointment.
          1. Eugeniy_369
            Eugeniy_369 13 November 2013 14: 36 New
            +3
            Without the police, nowhere is a bastion of law and order in any civilized country. I respect the Policemen who honestly do their job, I know those. Alas, there are few of them.
            Police reform should be in practice, not on paper.
            Let me give you one story- From a friend stole app. parts for agricultural machinery, our district officer pretended to be looking for, and then chatted with a friend to rewrite the statement where he changed the parts for metal, and transferred everything to the administrative wassat , and voila wink after a while he closed the case. As he was before our salary increase 2 times a month, he was swooped so and after the reform happens. So my question is as an ordinary layman, where is the reform then?
            1. Viking
              Viking 13 November 2013 14: 45 New
              0
              Quote: Eugeniy_369
              So my question is as an ordinary layman, where is the reform then?

              The reform is that (for example) before your district officer was engaged in one district, and now - in three. At the same time, the amount of paper work he increased 3 times. Here is such a reform.
              1. K9_SWAT
                K9_SWAT 13 November 2013 22: 38 New
                +1
                I support !!! I myself am a police officer. Now it happens that ONE crew travels around the Moscow region, because there is no one else. Plus, he will bring the detainee to the department and sit down to draw up him, because there is no one else, and in theory there should be more people for paperwork. Further, if the client is intoxicated, he must be taken to the hospital for medical examination and until the client comes to his senses, the outfit is on duty there. And there is nobody on the street! Then he can be sent to bring the suspects from the department to the prosecutor's office or vice versa, and again no one is on the street. Then a squad arrives to summon or search, until you find attesting witnesses or witnesses, until you sort everything out there. And there is no one on the street. And the injured outfit is waiting, and the outfit is busy. And then he, i.e. outfit, and also to blame: "garbage" and so on ... And about the precinct, I generally keep quiet !!! I can't understand how they still work there !!! He is responsible for EVERYTHING !!! Plus, he is pulled out to the mass: football, rally and so on. He must inspect roofs, attics and basements. Do ten unsubscriptions for each application. Solve a crime every month !!! And of course, not only for myself, but for the comrade who was laid off ...
                And the people are literate now, just around 02 and the employee calls and then proves that he is not a camel. And so he goes on a patrol and thinks, why should I get in if I will be guilty later ...
                1. iConst
                  iConst 14 November 2013 10: 53 New
                  0
                  Quote: K9_SWAT
                  And the people are literate now, just around 02 and the employee calls and then proves that he is not a camel

                  Yes, yes, I know, it took place when in the evening a drunken little companion boiled over her head with a bottle on the head of the bottle and she lay for several minutes in the snow in a blackout, so in the ward there was a dumb question in my eyes: h .. were they pinned down? ..
            2. kirpich
              kirpich 13 November 2013 18: 34 New
              +1
              Yes, without the police, nowhere. But, then, logically, let's revive the city, near-station, gendarmes. And that, we already have governors, mayors, prefects, the police formed, instead of the districts we have okrugs.
              And so I see - On Tverskaya, there is a policeman with a broadsword, and is watching.
              1. Karlsonn
                Karlsonn 13 November 2013 19: 24 New
                0
                Quote: kirpich
                And so I see - On Tverskaya, there is a policeman with a broadsword, and is watching.


                if you revive, then all seriously! with legal torture, shackles and other joys.
                1. Eugeniy_369
                  Eugeniy_369 13 November 2013 20: 04 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Karlsonn
                  if you revive, then all seriously! with legal torture, shackles and other joys.

                  Well ... Sorry, Alexey, you (I can’t with a stranger), then propagate immediately after the auto-da-fe laughing And there is Torquemada laughing , in Russia, this good has always been enough for us.
          2. Viking
            Viking 13 November 2013 14: 43 New
            0
            Quote: Eugeniy_369
            in short, the public should be involved in the reform.

            And who exactly will represent this "public"? We are discussing the project drawn up by such a "group of public figures". It's good that he has no chance of incarnation, but what would have been otherwise?
            1. Eugeniy_369
              Eugeniy_369 13 November 2013 17: 21 New
              +3
              Quote: Viking
              And who exactly will represent this "public"? We are discussing the project drawn up by such a "group of public figures". It's good that he has no chance of incarnation, but what would have been otherwise?

              I meant a society without quotation marks, that is, you, yourself, other citizens of Russia, but apparently this is a conversation between a blind man and a deaf person. I understand that there is a current on the "tsar" hope and "specialists from the Ministry of Internal Affairs", and the people-society is like, Th talk with him. We have such professionals in power
              And about the precinct, from the post above, since he had a certain territory before the reform and remained and I don't need to "open my eyes", I know better than you about my local police)))))
              1. Shur
                Shur 14 November 2013 00: 43 New
                +1
                You, like me, are also interested, but why do not they want to hear us.
            2. Shur
              Shur 14 November 2013 00: 41 New
              0
              Imitation and no more. What do you think so on people? We have normal people. Make an open statement of ideas and their open selection at the level of expert advice in the first person.
          3. matross
            matross 13 November 2013 15: 00 New
            -1
            Quote: Eugeniy_369
            in short, the public should be involved in the reform

            How do you imagine this? Will we gather human rights defenders? Fighters for human rights, green letters, different blues, mothers who had not given birth? Or doctors, steelworkers, combine operators? Reform can be allowed to have a hand only for professionals! For both former and current employees. Yes, taking into account the prevailing public opinion, foreign experience, national traditions, etc., but only to professional practitioners !!!
            Quote: Eugeniy_369
            As one of the contenders for the chair of the Minister, Mr. Sukhodolsky, was "leaked" I think you remember

            If you are "aware of the problem" according to some media reports, it is better not to talk about this character at all. This, by the way, is about the issue of public participation ... a very typical example. We heard something somewhere, but we already have an opinion. Either he stole, or it was stolen from him - a dark, in general, a story came out ...
            1. Eugeniy_369
              Eugeniy_369 13 November 2013 17: 45 New
              +5
              Quote: matRoss
              How do you imagine this? Will we gather human rights defenders? Fighters for human rights, green letters, different blues, mothers who had not given birth? Or doctors, steelworkers, combine operators?

              Why do you hate your people so much? What do you think he is nothing at all? If an ordinary steelworker-combine operator is given the right to choose a district police officer, will he choose to guard a bandit or a drug addict? For your information, given the state of the art in agriculture, it is more difficult to work on a combine than to steer on a "goat" and to put squiggles in the protocol and plans.
              Quote: matRoss
              Only professionals can have a hand in the reform! For both former and current employees

              Well, this is generally the slogan of all bureaucrats. Professionals in what? Are you going to force operas to reform? And I think the generals are happy with everything, but if you give a bit of power to the current fellow . Moreover, they have already reformed themselves from police to police. The result I think is ZERO, and to some acquaintances (employees) it seems that it has become even worse.
              PS Therefore, in Russia we have champagne bottles and have a dual purpose, proffi hands put in their reform.
              Without the control of the Ministry of Internal Affairs by society, the people, through their representatives, this structure will continue to be a state in a state.
              1. matross
                matross 13 November 2013 19: 47 New
                -1
                Quote: Eugeniy_369
                Why do you hate your people so much?

                This is not "my people", but Russian. And I am part of it. Therefore, there can be no talk of hatred. Do not twist and do not punch for a tear.
                Quote: Eugeniy_369
                If an ordinary steelworker-combiner is given the right to choose a local police officer, will he choose to protect a bandit or drug addict?

                Hope not to choose. And in principle, I do not mind the election of district police officers if they are chosen from trained professionals. But this can only work in rural areas. Need to explain why?
                Quote: Eugeniy_369
                steer on the "goat" and squiggles in the protocol and plans to put

                You have a simplified view of the work of law enforcement. To put it mildly ...
                Quote: Eugeniy_369
                Are you going to force operas to reform? And I think the generals are happy with everything, but if you give a bit of power to the current

                Then I agree. The opera would have done it, but without the generals it will not do. Therefore, their participation should be at least minimized.
                Quote: Eugeniy_369
                Without the control of the Ministry of Internal Affairs by society, the people, through their representatives, this structure will continue to be a state in a state.

                And then I agree. Will be. But it is better to let it be a state in a state and successfully fulfill its law enforcement and law enforcement mission for the benefit of society, than to turn under the total control of this, let us say frankly, imperfect society, into a toothless and useless impotent with constant guilt syndrome.
                Quote: Eugeniy_369
                I express my personal opinion here

                The opinion of a person with knowledge on the subject under discussion is interesting. Otherwise, this is gossip, idle reasoning and retelling of dreams that no one
                Quote: Eugeniy_369
                not interesting

                I have the honor! hi
                1. Eugeniy_369
                  Eugeniy_369 13 November 2013 21: 02 New
                  0
                  Quote: matRoss
                  Therefore, hatred cannot be discussed. Do not distort and do not break through a tear.

                  I’m not punching you for anything, but I just think that "Will we gather human rights defenders? Fighters for human rights, green peas, different blues, nulliparous mothers? Or doctors-teachers, steelworkers-combine operators?" this pearl says a lot about you, "greenpeace" or rather members of the "Greenpeace" organization, I think very little here, I see the blueness of the current in the zomboyaschik and when I visit Moscow. And human rights defenders are needed, just not those who are "former ..." or are on a salary. After all, only after the noise that they arranged with the "freaks-proffies" from "Dalniy" began to work. Summing up, you personify the entire Russian people (to which you rank yourself) with the "categories" of citizens you have listed (probably invented). By the way, doctors, combiners did not please with what?
                  Quote: matRoss
                  But this can only work in rural areas. Need to explain why?

                  But at least start from there, and there you look, and in small towns, experience can be applied
                  Quote: matRoss
                  You have a simplified view of the work of law enforcement. To put it mildly ...

                  What I see with the local police is what I write, but to put it mildly, but firmly speaking, I don’t have time to go and find out where they work.
                  Quote: matRoss
                  Then I agree. The opera would have done it, but without the generals it will not do. Therefore, their participation should be at least minimized.

                  Yes, let them participate, but only without the right of sole decision-making.
                  Quote: matRoss
                  But it is better to let it be a state in a state and successfully fulfill its law enforcement and law enforcement mission for the benefit of society, than to turn under the total control of this, let us say frankly imperfect society, into a toothless and useless impotent with constant guilt syndrome.

                  And I don’t speak for total control, and the current civil society, although it may not be perfect, but it is developing gradually and the Ministry of Internal Affairs does not want to develop, they have their own world. And about impotence in the future, you better now tell my friend who faced impotence with our police in the present (a long example to describe).
                  Quote: matRoss
                  The opinion of a person with knowledge on the subject under discussion is interesting. Otherwise, this is gossip, idle reasoning and retelling of dreams that no one

                  Well, do not blame me, I am not a relative of Sukhodolsky, and I do not belong to his enemies. I read the press, political scientists, there are familiar acquaintances, I analyzed it with my own mind, I made conclusions for myself.
                  "which are not interesting to anyone"
                  Why is the phrase torn? I wrote "I'm not interested"... I speak for myself. And you, as I understand it, for everyone who speaks out on this site? And "a hat according to Senka?", The contingent here is literate, and as I understand it, they do not like someone like you to decide something for him. You have to be more modest No.
                  1. matross
                    matross 14 November 2013 11: 15 New
                    0
                    Quote: Eugeniy_369
                    By the way, doctors, combine operators didn’t please?

                    I respect both of them. You just did not understand why I mentioned them.
                    Quote: Eugeniy_369
                    competent contingent here

                    There is no arguing. But, I hope, you do not consider yourself literate? It would be too presumptuous ... laughing
                    Quote: Eugeniy_369
                    You must be more modest

                    Modesty and so, along with intelligence, beauty and strength, is one of my main virtues wassat laughing
                2. Shur
                  Shur 14 November 2013 00: 55 New
                  +1
                  There are no simple solutions, therefore, we must together and first choose the option, then detailed proposals. Yes, fundamentally and not otherwise, but with such a sequence that security does not suffer. That is, a phased transfer of functions to newly created structures. Also territorially and by levels (from top to bottom). It may happen that the generals become teachers.
            2. Eugeniy_369
              Eugeniy_369 13 November 2013 17: 53 New
              +1
              Quote: matRoss
              If you are "aware of the problem" according to some media reports, it is better not to talk about this character at all. This, by the way, is about the issue of public participation ... a very typical example. We heard something somewhere, but we already have an opinion. Either he stole, or it was stolen from him - a dark, in general, a story came out ...

              I express my personal opinion here, if you want to express yours, and your philosophical conclusions like
              Quote: matRoss
              This, incidentally, is on the issue of public participation ... a very characteristic example

              I'm not interested. If we discuss something specifically, and not in the style of "if someone is somewhere where we sometimes ...."
              Quote: matRoss
              Either he stole, or stolen from him - a dark, in general, history came out ...
              .
            3. Shur
              Shur 14 November 2013 00: 47 New
              0
              Professionals are needed for dropping out proposals; ideas of self-regulation and self-reform are utopian.
        2. Shur
          Shur 14 November 2013 00: 24 New
          0
          And, excuse me, for us, this people, you can, as a thread, take a little bit at least to participate.
    4. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 13 November 2013 12: 25 New
      +2
      Quote: domokl
      The police reform was carried out in general to solve a simple but carefully concealed problem ...


      1. studentmati
        studentmati 13 November 2013 23: 22 New
        0
        The circus hooted, the clowns stayed! Words, as usual, diverge from deeds.
    5. gendarm
      gendarm 13 November 2013 12: 35 New
      +4
      I don’t agree with you on everything, but I will emphasize that the reduction was carried out at the expense of the executive unit, and not the administrative unit. The rest of the performers are loaded with writing all kinds of "personal plans" and "reports on the implementation of items of the personal plan." All this rubbish was brought to the militia by staff officers and political commissars who were dismissed from the Ministry of Defense. And they began to destroy the Ministry of Internal Affairs for the sake of Western creditors long ago. First, the UIS was torn off, then the fire brigade, the BNON service, the BOP service, etc. As a result, horizontal ties were broken, bureaucracy reduced the interaction of structures to practically zero with bloated reporting and absolute profanation of the execution of direct duties. Your mother was absolutely right about the housewives.
    6. I am a Russian
      I am a Russian 13 November 2013 13: 04 New
      0
      Quote: domokl
      It’s time to live with your own mind.


      It is fantastic fellow
    7. zub46
      zub46 13 November 2013 18: 45 New
      +2
      Especially noted about the upper thigh. The reformers, together with Kudrin, picked up a not weak bacillus in the West, as a result, everything that "There" is seen exclusively in pink or blue tones. They want to turn the police into a kind of American police. They will not understand that on Russian soil that experience is not acceptable for a number of reasons.
      Terribly far from the people ...
    8. Shur
      Shur 13 November 2013 23: 10 New
      0
      The best hostess keeps a new thing in stock until the old one is out of order :) According to the normal, it was still necessary to create a new structure, on new principles and transfer functions gradually, in stages. The legacy of punitive organs is not a thing of the past. So are the prisons.
  3. Reasonable, 2,3
    Reasonable, 2,3 13 November 2013 09: 01 New
    +3
    HELLO: NEW Kickbacks, LIBERASES AND CATTLE, HELLO TO NEW IDEALS-WITHOUT DIFFERENTS AND, NO MORE TIME TO CONSTRUCT - THINK THE GUYS?
  4. Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 13 November 2013 09: 01 New
    +3
    "Reform again ?! Have you not reformed yet?" - they probably want to format what they reformed, that is, until the end they have not ruined what remains.
  5. fzr1000
    fzr1000 13 November 2013 09: 01 New
    +5
    The main thing is that they should not be renamed again from the police. And then so much money will fly into the pipe for free.
    1. cosmos111
      cosmos111 13 November 2013 09: 17 New
      +6
      What to do, to study at a police university, officially, it costs 300-400 thousand
      Who will these universities graduate from? Corruptionists.
      Without scrapping, all liberalistic authorities from a single renaming and reform, nothing will change
      The system of the state .. apparatus of Russia is rotten and mired in corruption.
      1. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 13 November 2013 13: 17 New
        +2
        Quote: cosmos111
        What to do, to study at a police university, officially, it costs 300-400 thousand


        Lies! You go and act, tea is not MGIMO.

        Quote: cosmos111
        Who will these universities graduate from? Corruptionists.


        They are letting out normal people, but when they get into the system, the most interesting thing starts and begins, this is firstly;
        secondly, comrade, we must honestly admit that stories in the media about law enforcement officers who sacrificed their lives do not really catch anyone, and stories about Yevsyukov or "the case with a bottle of champagne" excite the blog-sphere that Vesuvius, then there is something I want to say:
        - We indifferently pass by the news about the feat, but we argue hotly when the guano happens. sad
      2. воронов
        воронов 13 November 2013 16: 52 New
        +1
        Quote: cosmos111
        What to do, to study at a police university, officially, it costs 300-400 thousand

        Where does this statistic come from? My son graduated from the Tyumen Institute of the Ministry of Internal Affairs (formerly the Higher School of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR), without paying a dime, and now at the Ministry of Internal Affairs, sergeants, if age permits, are forced to enroll in law schools in absentia, including and through the Ministry of Internal Affairs and what does everyone pay? From individual facts, do not draw general conclusions and do not spread gossip.
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 13 November 2013 17: 36 New
          +2
          Quote: voronov
          Where does this statistic come from? My son is finished


          Kamrad just do not know the realities, read somewhere stupid and believed, somehow request .
          I personally "hung out" at the Academy of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine, I did not see this point-blank, of course there were majors - someone's sons and daughters, but against the background of everyone else they did not do the weather.

          Well, for the mood. drinks
  6. fzr1000
    fzr1000 13 November 2013 09: 02 New
    0
    The main thing is that they should not be renamed again from the police. And then so much money will fly into the pipe for free.
  7. IgorND
    IgorND 13 November 2013 09: 03 New
    0
    If you practice this kind of logic (the logic of new optimizations and cuts), then you can agree at all that it’s time to disband the Ministry of Internal Affairs, and for all our people, for our own safety, they must keep the ax under the bed or the cobblestone in the bosom ... not cheap whether Alexey Leonidovich ...

    A similar experiment was carried out in Ukraine, when traffic cops were reduced, like an unsuccessful experiment, it is necessary to conduct the same in Russia, only on a larger scale, all the Ministry of Internal Affairs on unpaid leave, I think the level of confidence after this experiment should rise.
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 13 November 2013 13: 26 New
      +1
      Quote: IgorND
      A similar experiment was carried out in Ukraine, when traffic cops were reduced, like an unsuccessful experiment


      As a resident of Kiev, I will tell you how it was:
      - Our pimpled (Yushchenko) reacted sharply to some regular corruption scandal, like diarrhea and the crew of the traffic police disappeared from the streets. What happened on the roads, how much I personally died, as a Kiev citizen I can only speculate, but one thing is for sure, I tried not to drive and went across the road in compliance with all traffic rules and at maximum speed, turning the head at 360 degrees in all planes. If succinctly, a carnage began on the roads.
      So I think the idea that instilling respect for employees in citizens by removing the latter from the streets for a month is generally true.
      1. Viking
        Viking 13 November 2013 13: 34 New
        +2
        I will also bring my "5 kopecks". I think that many have seen this article, but to anyone who has not caught sight - I recommend spending a couple of minutes and reading.

        KP journalist Dmitry Steshin spent several days in a million-plus city where policemen could be beaten with impunity. The journalist had enough impressions for the rest of his life.
        http://www.kp.by/daily/24402.5/578246/
  8. Valery Neonov
    Valery Neonov 13 November 2013 09: 05 New
    +8
    Quote: domokl
    .Remove a quarter of the composition (22%), and put the rest in such conditions so as not to rock the boat.

    So, in fact, most of the employees were "removed" from the ground, those who really WORKED and did not sit their ass: operatives, and district police officers.
    1. IgorND
      IgorND 13 November 2013 09: 14 New
      +9
      So it was, we have reduced 30 nicknames out of 8 DPS, and only one platoon from the company in general has remained one PPS.
      1. en 45
        en 45 13 November 2013 09: 31 New
        +7
        About DPS and PPS, that's for sure. We have a small town with a population of about 16 thousand, a DPS outfit consisting of 2 employees in 1 car is on duty. Knowing where their car is located, you can do anything on other streets, which is what youngsters use on their father’s cars. No signs of speed limits apply to them. But faculty can only be seen on holidays.
        1. Viking
          Viking 13 November 2013 11: 57 New
          +2
          Quote: en 45
          and the duty of the traffic police, consisting of 2 employees in 1 car, is on duty.

          Quote: en 45
          But faculty can only be seen on holidays.

          Well, if we look at how many people are left in the administration, in the headquarters, in the rear, we will see that all the former faces are in place, as many were before the "reform". This damn thing was done - "optimization".
          1. Karlsonn
            Karlsonn 13 November 2013 13: 27 New
            +1
            Quote: Viking
            Well, if we look at how many people are left in the administration, in the headquarters, in the rear, we will see that all the former faces are in place, as many were before the "reform."


            Not true, many were fired and among them there were many sensible people.
            1. Viking
              Viking 13 November 2013 13: 49 New
              +2
              Quote: Karlsonn
              Not true, many were fired and among them there were many sensible people.

              I see what I see - on the ground, one auto patrol and one PLR ​​crew are entering the area. That is 4-5 people, including drivers. To a densely populated area of ​​Moscow! And the Department of Internal Affairs (buildings of 6-8 floors) is like anthills - a bunch of offices and in each office several people "fight crime" by recycling paper. Departments of "inspectors" have already been created.
              1. Karlsonn
                Karlsonn 13 November 2013 13: 57 New
                0
                Quote: Viking
                I see what I see - on the ground, one auto patrol and one crew of the People’s Republic of Poland come to the area. That is, 4-5 people, including drivers. To the densely populated area of ​​Moscow!


                So no one hides the numbers, if necessary, you yourself can find out how many generals and senior officers are in the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
                Situations that over one policeman I do not see five inspectors and three generals point blank.
                1. K9_SWAT
                  K9_SWAT 13 November 2013 22: 55 New
                  +1
                  Report to the police, at least for a couple of months, as an intern and find out how many people are actually checking ....
  9. Colonel
    Colonel 13 November 2013 09: 10 New
    +3
    Damn, this is not even funny !!!
  10. vlad0
    vlad0 13 November 2013 09: 12 New
    +3
    And again, responsible for the collapse, in this case - the Ministry of Internal Affairs, as well as for the waste and cuts of billions of budget funds NO ???? That is, stupidity, mediocrity, negligence and incompetence in our government is not only not punished, but also welcomed and encouraged by an uncontrolled increase in salaries! am
  11. pv1005
    pv1005 13 November 2013 09: 21 New
    +3
    Stages of the new reform:
    Divided into three parts
    Each part to develop its own form and change clothes
    Each part in its own orchestra and let them upload videos to the Internet
    Add 10-15 new reporting forms for progress not canceling the old
    The issuance of weapons licenses to the hunting community
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 13 November 2013 11: 10 New
      +2
      Quote: pv1005
      Each part to develop its own form and change clothes
      Each part in its own orchestra and let them upload videos to the Internet
      Add 10-15 new reporting forms for progress not canceling the old
      The issuance of weapons licenses to the hunting community

      All the same, it will be cheaper to rename the police! And then:
      Check everyone who is currently listed there.
      Reduce officials, increase the number of "acting" (operatives, etc.)
      Reduce the number of papers and reports that take up expensive time!
      And further. I understand that now there seems to be a large number of police officers, but the violent revelry has gone too much. And in order to stop at least the "youth", in order to reduce the supply of the criminal environment, it is necessary that the police are seen constantly, patrols of 2-3 people - constantly on ALL streets. Even if it will be necessary to increase the number of people, even if they call it a "police state" - do not care about Europe. But then they will very much even think about whether to arrange fights or not, to get rid of the monuments of the Eternal Flame or not. That's when they learn to behave normally, observing the laws - then you can cut it. By the way, in many countries, rich people set up guards near their homes (in the "comrade" booth), moreover armed. And they don't see anything wrong with that! laughing
    2. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 13 November 2013 13: 30 New
      +2
      Quote: pv1005
      Stages of the new reform:
      Divided into three parts
      Each part to develop its own form and change clothes


      In queue!!!
      In Ukraine, this was the first to be invented. bully
    3. PSih2097
      PSih2097 13 November 2013 15: 28 New
      0
      Quote: pv1005
      The issuance of weapons licenses to the hunting community

      +1 laughing
      1. Dimy4
        Dimy4 14 November 2013 06: 19 New
        0
        The issuance of weapons licenses to the hunting community

        As an option, it’s immediately in arms stores and there will be all happiness!
  12. svp67
    svp67 13 November 2013 09: 23 New
    +6
    How? Again reform in the Ministry of Internal Affairs?
    And like this, not again, but AGAIN ... I propose it as the first stage - the introduction of the post of Deputy Minister of Internal Affairs for Reforms, and form a whole department for this. This is a very "important" matter. And for the order on the streets, while "conscientious" citizens, from private security companies "look" fool
  13. Nayhas
    Nayhas 13 November 2013 09: 31 New
    +3
    The division into three types of police will not lead to anything. Absolutely nothing will change. Reform itself, of course, was necessary, but not in terms of reducing executors, but of reducing endless administrations. Here, in Novosibirsk, we have reduced district administrations, branches, respectively, external services, as well as district and opera houses. However, the city administration and the regional administration were left unchanged (and there is also the district!), I.e. the number of parasites per artist only increased. Well, so they are now ready to divide managerial positions across all three levels, what difference does it make to them ...
    1. Viking
      Viking 13 November 2013 12: 01 New
      +1
      Quote: Nayhas
      The division into three types of police will not lead to anything. Absolutely nothing will change.

      Will change. At the proposed 1st level (municipal), the police will become completely dependent on local authorities (after all, they are the ones who pay them their salaries). All. Manual police are the dream of many "appanage princelings".
  14. WASABI
    WASABI 13 November 2013 09: 31 New
    +5
    I put the article "-", but this is not a minus to Alexei, as the author of the article, but a minus to Kudrin and his "reformist" fervor.
    What the hell can there be a reform AGAIN ??? Nowhere to put money ??? Let the law enforcement officers work for you and me! What kind of optimization of personnel can we talk about, if each investigator has a heap of criminal cases with his own growth (and this is at least). And then - what kind of work can be during the "reforms" ???????? am
    1. Ascetic
      Ascetic 13 November 2013 10: 44 New
      +7
      Quote: VASABI
      minus Kudrin and his "reformist" fervor.

      The essence of the sentences is
      patrol service, precinct and duty units will go to municipalities, investigators of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and investigators of the ministry and the FSKN, as well as riot police and traffic police units - to the regional, the federal level will be created on the basis of TFR. A federal criminal statistics agency and a federal service for the investigation of official crimes, including corruption of officials, will be created separately, which will be subordinate to the State Duma (it will also confirm its head).
      All this is based on research by the notorious Indem Foundation, led by the notorious Georgy Sattarov.
      What is the purpose of such reforms. First, reassign the main divisions of the Ministry of Internal Affairs to regional authorities (governors), essentially eliminating the Ministry of Internal Affairs as a unified federal structure. The next step is to create regional and municipal troops, delegating the authority of the Ministry of Defense to them, and why not. And thus lower Russia to the level of specific principalities with its own police and army. All this is in very good harmony with the calls to separate the Caucasus, Siberia and the Far East, which have been particularly active lately. Anyone will understand that behind all these calls and reforms there are quite definite powerful circles interested in the further collapse of Russia.
      1. Valery Neonov
        Valery Neonov 13 November 2013 10: 52 New
        +6
        Kudrin’s star on his forehead is six-pointed (with the inscription from the grateful children of Moses).
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 13 November 2013 13: 34 New
          +2
          Quote: Valery Neonov
          Kudrin’s star on his forehead is six-pointed (with the inscription from the grateful children of Moses).


          How already got this talk about the Jews!
          Do you have a Jew stealing a girl? Stole an apartment? When buying diamonds threw?
          What do you personally do the Jews?

      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 13 November 2013 10: 54 New
        +2
        They offer this:


        http://polit.ru/article/2013/11/11/ref/
        1. iConst
          iConst 13 November 2013 11: 14 New
          +1
          Quote: Spade
          They offer this:


          http://polit.ru/article/2013/11/11/ref/

          It is very similar to the American system: the upper level is the FBI, the middle is the state police, the municipal is the sheriff’s service.

          And the specialized functions are special congressional investigations.
          1. Viking
            Viking 13 November 2013 12: 11 New
            +4
            Quote: iConst
            It is very similar to the American system: the upper level is the FBI, the middle is the state police, the municipal is the sheriff’s service.

            Crap it. For America, it may do. And each country has its own characteristics. In Russia - it has long been, historically - centralization of power, as soon as the central government weakened in places, the devil knows what is happening.
            Imagine that the police will be from the subjects, in fact, we will see the creation of our own - Tatar, Bashkir, Kalmyk and so on. by the police. Who will lead? Are they not close relatives of leaders of all levels, will these units not turn into purely ethnic formations, where the road will be (not advertised aloud of course) only for indigenous nations?
            1. iConst
              iConst 13 November 2013 12: 13 New
              0
              Quote: Viking
              Imagine that the police will be from the subjects, in fact, we will see the creation of our own - Tatar, Bashkir, Kalmyk and so on. by the police. Who will lead? Are not close relatives of leaders at all levels,

              And now, what, isn’t it?
              1. Viking
                Viking 13 November 2013 12: 26 New
                +1
                Quote: iConst
                And now, what, isn’t it?

                Not this way. The funding is federal, that is, there is no dependence on local authorities on this issue, a rotation of the management staff has been introduced - after 5 years of service, it will be transferred to another region and there will be strict vertical subordination, that is, the police will primarily comply with the instructions not of the local head of the region but of Moscow.
            2. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 13 November 2013 13: 37 New
              +2
              Quote: Viking
              And each country has its own characteristics. In Russia - it has long been, historically - centralization of power, as soon as the central government weakened in places, the devil knows what is happening.


              Let me subscribe! drinks
              We can only be so ---
          2. Shur
            Shur 14 November 2013 01: 05 New
            0
            Where they started, they continue. Kolipastory.
      3. WASABI
        WASABI 13 November 2013 11: 07 New
        +3
        Quote: Ascetic
        The essence of the sentences is

        Hello Stanislav! Thank you, I figured out the essence of the "proposals" to decentralize the management system of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. I think this is an attempt to continue Medvedev's "reform", which he for some reason (???) did not finish, stopping halfway. What or who forced him to slow down is anyone's guess, but one thing is already clear - an attempt to disintegrate Russia like the USSR gives serious failures, the old "proven" schemes cease to work effectively. The lack and activity of the LGBT community and the statements of "some" figures in the regions like "we feed all of Russia" (Krasnodar Territory), "fence off the North Caucasus with barbed wire ..." (Zhirinovsky) and the like ... By the way, and "human rights activists "they did not change to mark on this topic, echoing the" blessed memory "of Margaret Techcher that the territory for Russia is too big and it is necessary to" cut off "(!!!) Russia along the Urals.
        The trimmer would not go bad ...
        1. Ascetic
          Ascetic 13 November 2013 11: 46 New
          +4
          Quote: VASABI
          an attempt to disintegrate Russia along the lines of the USSR gives serious failures, the old "proven" schemes cease to work effectively. The lack and activity of the LGBT community and the statements of "some" figures in the regions like "we feed all of Russia" (Krasnodar Territory), "fence off the North Caucasus with barbed wire ..." (Zhirinovsky) and the like ...


          Who is the main beneficiary of this process is clear to every sane person. But who is the conductor of these ideas in Russia itself: these are people without a homeland (or rather, their homeland is not ours), people without honor and conscience, ready to sell everything and everyone for the Judas silver coins. This is what is called the Russian liberal opposition, but in fact agents of influence and the "fifth column" of the West, at the top of which is the government of the same Medvedev.

          1. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 13 November 2013 14: 09 New
            -1
            Quote: Ascetic
            This is what is called the Russian liberal opposition, but in fact agents of influence and the "fifth column" of the West, at the top of which is the government of the same Medvedev.

            Put there by the same Putin.
            1. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 13 November 2013 15: 07 New
              +2
              Quote: Yarosvet
              Put there by the same Putin.


              For you, comrade power is this supposedly such a monolith? How is Everest?
              I will open the terrible:
              - there are groups in power that are fighting among themselves and it’s not worthwhile to reduce everything to the death rays from the Spasskaya Tower.
              1. Yarosvet
                Yarosvet 13 November 2013 16: 59 New
                0
                Quote: Karlsonn
                there are groups in power

                They may be, but I have only one thing that has real weight, for the time being - the mayor’s office which has made friends on the foundation.
                1. Karlsonn
                  Karlsonn 13 November 2013 17: 40 New
                  0
                  Quote: Yarosvet
                  They may be, but I have only one thing that has real weight, for the time being - the mayor’s office which has made friends on the foundation.


                  Comrade, do you enter the Kremlin and know the situation there?

                  Listen, but I have a case in this case repeat , can you solve it in the Kremlin for a considerable gesheft?
                  1. Yarosvet
                    Yarosvet 13 November 2013 18: 33 New
                    +2
                    Quote: Karlsonn
                    Comrade, do you enter the Kremlin and know the situation there?
                    I have a head - accordingly, I can imagine a general alignment.
                    1. Karlsonn
                      Karlsonn 13 November 2013 19: 29 New
                      0
                      Quote: Yarosvet
                      I have a head - accordingly, I can imagine a general alignment.


                      This is the essence - we can only imagine.
                      How did Churchill say:
                      - politics is a fight of bulldogs under the carpet.

                      We hear noise, screeching and din, but what really happens we can only imagine, that is, fantasize.
                      1. Yarosvet
                        Yarosvet 13 November 2013 20: 57 New
                        -1
                        Quote: Karlsonn
                        that is, to fantasize.

                        E no - in the case of the Russian Federation, the carpet is quite thin, almost everything is visible: to put together a puzzle of known connections, psychological characteristics, declarations, actions, etc. It doesn’t represent much difficulty - it would be a desire to perceive the real state of affairs, and not to attract pseudo-facts by the ears, thereby trying to substantiate their hopes.
            2. Shur
              Shur 14 November 2013 01: 09 New
              0
              The difference between the dual rulers and those who are "for", some want to build Europe of local bottling themselves, but werewolves let them colonize Europe at least in parts. That's all, or almost all, the difference between them.
          2. Shur
            Shur 14 November 2013 01: 07 New
            0
            More precise and sadder nowhere.
  15. Stinger
    Stinger 13 November 2013 09: 32 New
    +5
    They correctly say that the most important thing is to be afraid of an accountant with civic initiative.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 13 November 2013 11: 54 New
      +2
      Quote: Stinger
      They correctly say that the most important thing is to be afraid of an accountant with civic initiative.

      Oooh! and this was brilliantly proved by Mr. Yushchenko in Ukraine! You need to learn from the mistakes of the neighbors. hi
    2. Shur
      Shur 14 November 2013 01: 11 New
      0
      Oh, but a swindling lawyer?
  16. pilot-mk
    pilot-mk 13 November 2013 09: 42 New
    +1
    Kudrin (as an agent of our enemies) received a new task: to completely destroy what was left of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
    1. Yarosvet
      Yarosvet 13 November 2013 14: 17 New
      0
      Quote: pilot-mk
      Kudrin (as an agent of our enemies) received a new task

      And what are you ashamed to name the name of the main enemy? laughing
      1. Onyx
        Onyx 13 November 2013 16: 40 New
        -1
        Quote: Yarosvet
        And what are you ashamed to name the name of the main enemy?

        Hold on troll
        1. Yarosvet
          Yarosvet 13 November 2013 17: 23 New
          -1
          Quote: Onyx
          Hold on troll

          But essentially there is something? Or tokma offended feelings of a believer? laughing
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. Yarosvet
              Yarosvet 13 November 2013 18: 28 New
              0
              Quote: Onyx
              Essentially there is a lot of things, but I do not want to waste time

              Nu-nu: you have time for senseless vysyers, but in essence you don’t want to spend it - as I understood bully
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Yarosvet
                  Yarosvet 13 November 2013 19: 16 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Onyx
                  meaningless vyser is you

                  Very reasonably laughing
                  1. Onyx
                    Onyx 13 November 2013 19: 21 New
                    0
                    Quote: Yarosvet
                    Very reasonably

                    Maybe not really, but right
                  2. Yarosvet
                    Yarosvet 13 November 2013 20: 50 New
                    0
                    Quote: Onyx
                    Maybe not really, but right

                    I look at your self-confidence itches so that there is no urine - asks outside, but here I mixed up holes

                    Look do not choke laughing
            2. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 13 November 2013 19: 32 New
              +1
              Onyx

              and you don’t much afigee in the attack?

              why did you decide that you can insult strangers?

              and this, re-read the rules of the resource again, so as not to go to the admins with a stupid question:
              - for which I was banned.
              1. Onyx
                Onyx 13 November 2013 19: 59 New
                -3
                Carlson, I’m going to go crazy or not go crazy without you, do you understand?
                1. Karlsonn
                  Karlsonn 14 November 2013 12: 38 New
                  0
                  Quote: Onyx
                  Carlson, I’m going to go crazy or not go crazy without you, do you understand?


                  Resource rules follow!
                  And you don’t understand me, understand? laughing
  17. Stalin
    Stalin 13 November 2013 09: 45 New
    +3
    Why are you listening to this Kudrin? His time has come to the dustbin of history. There is no sense in him, a pro-Western agent, strangling the Russian economy with his money and storing dough in American bonds. An official with Western interests is not needed here. Let it go to hell.
  18. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 13 November 2013 09: 45 New
    +2
    Something does not see a positive result of the "reforms", although, however, any actions of the current government only exacerbate the situation, in general this "power" should be driven with a nasty broom, but we all choose nothing and choose the party of "crooks and thieves" headed by Putin what do you want then?
  19. major071
    major071 13 November 2013 09: 50 New
    +4
    Such "reformers" should not be allowed to shoot a cannon shot at the Ministry of Internal Affairs, and indeed at the security structures. They ruined the country, so they want to finish off with their reforms what was left after the reform of the LADY. So there is no one to work, only young people. The division of the Ministry of Internal Affairs into three levels will do nothing; without the vertical, chaos and fermentation will begin. Everyone will pull the blanket over themselves or, on the contrary, push things onto others. And most importantly, each level has its own CHIEF, who will report to whom? And the idea to remove the FSKN does not fit into any gate at all. Marasmus! If only you Alexei Leonidovich were going to water the flowers somewhere, the reformer of hell (n) s!
  20. Kerch
    Kerch 13 November 2013 09: 56 New
    0
    Like the United States - state and federal police?
  21. morpogr
    morpogr 13 November 2013 09: 56 New
    +2
    Reform has a beginning; reform has no end.
    1. Landwarrior
      Landwarrior 13 November 2013 10: 48 New
      +1
      Reform is like repairing a house. You can’t finish, you can only pause laughing
  22. pv1005
    pv1005 13 November 2013 10: 01 New
    +1
    I suggest reforming (reducing) EFFECTIVE MANAGERS, and put professionals in their place.
  23. godun
    godun 13 November 2013 10: 07 New
    +1
    Well, it is impossible now to carry out such reforms in the Ministry of Internal Affairs, which will make their work effective, because the police then jail the reformers themselves, and then, as "honest people", they will have to jail themselves for old sins.
  24. fennekRUS
    fennekRUS 13 November 2013 10: 08 New
    +1
    And you are friends, do not sit down ... (c) Grandfather Krylov. Again the sharing of financing.
  25. Prapor Afonya
    Prapor Afonya 13 November 2013 10: 09 New
    +5
    Where to reduce? In Moscow, the metro lacks 1500 thousand employees, other structures, when scheduled, every other day, work three days off a month, those who work after three days shift, go on a part-time basis on a voluntary-compulsory basis, and in fact, a policeman even a weapon can’t use will sue. I’m silent about the trails and operas, they live at work. Some of our reforms are not correct, they take away more than add.
    1. iConst
      iConst 13 November 2013 10: 29 New
      0
      Quote: Prapor Afonya
      Where to reduce? In Moscow, the metro lacks 1500 thousand employees, other structures, when scheduled, every other day, work three days off a month, those who work after three days shift, go on a part-time basis on a voluntary-compulsory basis, and in fact, a policeman even a weapon can’t use will sue. I’m silent about the trails and operas, they live at work. Some of our reforms are not correct, they take away more than add.

      The picture above reflects the truth (I don’t presume to judge the numbers). In Russia, the number of siloviks goes off scale.

      That’s why migrants are being dragged because their healthy men in various ass uniforms are wrinkling, right down to the guards in every vegetable shop.

      Sorry for the harshness - but I had to run into law enforcement "defenders" a couple of times. There were attacks on his wife and another daughter.

      And both times they looked at us with evil eyes - one more peered, there is little work without them ...
      1. Ascetic
        Ascetic 13 November 2013 11: 35 New
        +2
        Quote: iConst
        And both times they looked at us with evil eyes - one more peered, there is little work without them ..


        And they will also say they are to blame and where to look for them now ... And for some reason they cut employees from the "land" of precinct and operatives. As a result, in the same Moscow, there is one district police officer for almost 50 thousand people.
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 13 November 2013 13: 47 New
          0
          Quote: Ascetic
          And they will also say they are to blame and where to look for them now ... And for some reason they cut employees from the "land" of precinct and operatives. As a result, in the same Moscow, there is one district police officer for almost 50 thousand people.


          Yes sir! soldier
  26. iConst
    iConst 13 November 2013 10: 14 New
    +1
    Another chatter around right thoughts/unsolved problem (choose to taste).

    Only no one (as it happened with Gorbachev - especially with a small letter) knows what to do. And if you know - then the gut is thin.

    This militia needs to systematically replace region by region with brainwashed units specially trained in the centers - that is, with ideology.

    And the old guard - 100% at rest, because it is completely infected and incurable from the virus of money-grubbing, contempt for the population and do not care about duties. Well, maybe, with the exception of units.
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 13 November 2013 13: 50 New
      0
      Quote: iConst
      This militia needs to systematically replace region by region with brainwashed units specially trained in the centers - that is, with ideology.


      Comrade, you are fundamentally wrong, you must start with the people, literally from yourself.
      Those who do not serve in the militia from Mars also arrive in a society where the guarding citizens are contemptuously called "cops", where no reforms will help the traffic police officer as quickly as habitually. hi
      1. Yarosvet
        Yarosvet 13 November 2013 14: 28 New
        0
        Quote: Karlsonn
        Those who serve in the police do not fly from Mars

        This is where Alexey disagrees with you: in society, it’s not customary to put bottles and mops in your ass - for this you need your own special atmosphere that arises only in non-transparent structures that are not controlled by society and have real goals that diverge from declarative ones.
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 13 November 2013 15: 18 New
          +1
          Quote: Yarosvet
          Here Alexey does not agree with you: in society, bottles and mops in the ass are not accepted


          It’s also worse for us:
          - teenagers burn alive homeless people (a funny clip will come out!),
          - veterans are killed because of awards,
          - Criminal songs are played in minibuses and so on ...

          when I participated in a dummy, those caught in handcuffs rushed at me with a cry:
          - I’ll kill if I catch, snitch!
          to which I noticed that I was not hiding, and if we met in a deserted place with pleasure and special cynicism, I would re-qualify a screaming person with a disability.

          bully

          Quote: Yarosvet
          This needs its own special atmosphere, which arises only in non-transparent structures that are not under the control of society, which have real goals that diverge from declarative ones.


          comrade and what is the atmosphere in our society? I personally know few people who pay taxes, and I don’t really want to talk about the rest. crying
          1. Yarosvet
            Yarosvet 13 November 2013 16: 51 New
            -1
            Quote: Karlsonn
            It’s also better for us
            It happens, but there are several nuances: such cases are not an ordinary occurrence, society is perceived extremely negatively and is precisely a crime with a capital letter.
            But in the structure of the Ministry of Internal Affairs (and similar ones), such cases are an ordinary phenomenon, they are treated as an ordinary phenomenon, they are perceived as a crime in connection with the provisions of the Criminal Code, and not with their content.
            And mutual responsibility, squeezing out or breaking dissenters, only worsens the situation, especially since all the abomination is covered by repressive mechanisms of the state, thereby greatly complicating the possibility of resistance to this phenomenon.

            With regard to tax evasion, it is impossible (neither legally nor morally) to put on the same level the unlawful purgation and brutal murder.
            1. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 13 November 2013 17: 54 New
              +2
              Quote: Yarosvet
              It happens, but there are several nuances: such cases are not an ordinary occurrence, society is perceived extremely negatively and is precisely a crime with a capital letter.


              The criminally punishable action has long been not perceived negatively by the society - TV series like "Brigade", mass drunk driving and so on.
              See for yourself how many screams about drugs, and who actually does anything against it? I mean statements to the district police officer and above who writes?
              My epic with drug addicts at the entrance ended surprisingly very quickly, I live on the very outskirts of Kiev - the forest is visible from the window.

              Quote: Yarosvet
              But in the structure of the Ministry of Internal Affairs (and similar ones), such cases are an ordinary phenomenon, they are treated as an ordinary phenomenon, they are perceived as a crime in connection with the provisions of the Criminal Code, and not with their content.
              And mutual responsibility


              Good - we’ll dismiss all the bad, where will we pick up the good and honest if we have a criminal society through and through? Are you familiar with the concepts already in kindergarten?

              And by the way, we have a bunch of employees about whom we must blow all the fanfare, but for the media this is boring and not sensational.

              - Who is to blame and what to do?

              pay attention to the number of views comrade, and then compare with the number of views about Evsyukova, something like that.

              1. Yarosvet
                Yarosvet 13 November 2013 18: 51 New
                +1
                Quote: Karlsonn
                Criminally punishable actions have not been negatively perceived by society for a long time
                Perceived.

                and who actually does anything against it? I mean statements to the district police officer and above who writes?
                Still trying, despite the mutual responsibility.

                Good - we’ll dismiss all the bad, where will we pick up the good and honest if we have a criminal society through and through?
                If the society was criminal through and through, then people would not go to court, but would decide the issues themselves - in the meantime, cases with independent solutions to issues are isolated and morally justified. Set adequate leaders with the goal of upholding the rule of law, and the situation will begin to normalize.

                And by the way, we have to fig guys about which we must blow all the fanfare
                It’s not necessary, since the actions of such employees are the norm - but the opposite actions are not the norm: you take normal service in the store for granted, and if you are obscured in the same store or if you buy a harkanut quite rightly, I’ll arrange a bunch of bucks - that's all the same thing, but with a different specificity.
  27. calocha
    calocha 13 November 2013 10: 20 New
    0
    That Chubais, that Kudrin’s hoes are still those ... Activists of the collapse in Russia. They had to look closely at law enforcement agencies a long time ago, but the employees stubbornly ignore everything ....
    1. iConst
      iConst 13 November 2013 10: 32 New
      0
      Quote: calocha
      it was necessary long ago to have a closer look at law enforcement officers

      For a long time they not only looked narrowly, but also entered a share ...
  28. yan
    yan 13 November 2013 10: 23 New
    0
    The passion for reform killed the Soviet Union, caused a wave of local wars on its territory, almost ditched the Ministry of Defense, now we will reform the internal organs and get a complete collapse. It's time to stop the reformatory itch
  29. Lopatov
    Lopatov 13 November 2013 10: 35 New
    +2
    In the main, he is still right, it is necessary to reform. Because the previous "reform", like the reform of the state. apparatus led to an increase in the number of bureaucrats against the background of a decrease in the number of performers. Which is clearly not good.

    And in the light of this task, decentralization personally does not seem necessary to me. It will rather lead to the opposite - to an increase in the number of different kinds of "managers"
  30. iConst
    iConst 13 November 2013 10: 35 New
    +1
    Quote: yan
    Passion for reform killed the Soviet Union
    Say it to the CPC Central Committee. And then they, gray, do not know ...
  31. ed65b
    ed65b 13 November 2013 10: 36 New
    +2
    In our country, every former effective minister first of all tries to reform the cops. Nurgaliev worked hard, reformed. comrade, district militia, one in 3 districts remained, but in the office department divorced, it is difficult to pass. Now another "reformer" has emerged. we contain a million cops, more than in the USA.
    1. iConst
      iConst 13 November 2013 10: 39 New
      +2
      Quote: ed65b
      In our country, every former effective minister first of all tries to reform the cops.

      Shoigu! Shoigu! Shoigu! laughing
  32. Ihrek
    Ihrek 13 November 2013 11: 01 New
    0
    After the last reform, order in the system of the Ministry of Internal Affairs has increased, but not by much.
    1. UrraletZ
      UrraletZ 13 November 2013 11: 22 New
      -1
      Do not talk nonsense, naive ...
  33. The comment was deleted.
  34. UrraletZ
    UrraletZ 13 November 2013 11: 05 New
    +1
    All reforms, from the late 80s to the present day, are direct sabotage against the life of the country and EVERYTHING, the so-called. "democratic forces" are obliged to bear the well-deserved punishment for treason.
  35. hohryakov066
    hohryakov066 13 November 2013 11: 11 New
    +5
    Personally, I gave most of my conscious life to work in the police and I am absolutely sure that you should not get into the working mechanism. Will be worse. It all began when Yury Andropov came to power. The committee, fearing the strengthening of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and under the slogan of all sorts of cleansing, shook up the police so that under various pretexts they imprisoned most of the "peaceful plowmen" - people who dragged all the rough work on themselves. Further, after the collapse of the USSR, our liberal "minds" decided that if everything was "sharpened" to the standards of Hollywood, then everything would work a hundred times better even without funding. The police were divided into municipal and federal by name and funding, but in fact both municipalities and federals often worked in the same office and did the same job, but paid them differently and delayed their salaries in different ways. We have achieved that the staff of managers has doubled and the once unified structure has begun to bite itself by the tail! And the "Medvedev" reform in general finished off all that was good. Instead of getting rid of the useless ballast, they squeezed out of service (creating absolutely unbearable conditions) the most talented and intelligent ones, on whom everything was still held up! Remained or those who need to make it to retirement, those who have nowhere to go (seven in the shops, loans, mortgages ..) but those who diligently licked the anus to the authorities! A year later, they looked at the result and they themselves became scared - they began to call back those who were kicked out, but not all returned. Some have already found a job that is much more highly paid, and some were mortally offended when they were fired, and even in the same field with the current bosses ... they will not sit down. As a result, they turned over a lot of money, the result was negative. Now, even an amateur can see that the situation is KARAUL, and again the cries of all European reformers about further collapse are heard. Sure! It's so convenient to steal when there is NO ONE to catch you!
    1. Apollo
      Apollo 13 November 2013 11: 14 New
      +4
      On the topic and content of information.
      Maybe it would be time for Alexei Leonidovich to get away from Russia, to the countries that he listed in the resume. I will be more than Russia and the people as a whole, from his departure !!!
    2. iConst
      iConst 13 November 2013 11: 25 New
      0
      Quote: hohryakov066
      Personally, I gave most of my life to work in the police and I am absolutely sure that you should not go into a working mechanism. Will be worse.

      Do you deny that the world around us and the situation is changing?
      And claim that once a well-established mechanism will be forever effective?
      1. dag 05.ru
        dag 05.ru 13 November 2013 14: 31 New
        0
        That's right, the mechanism needs to be reformed, no matter how it is adjusted over time, it requires adjustment. And in our case, even more so, since it was never effective.
  36. matross
    matross 13 November 2013 11: 37 New
    +2
    Quote: Egoza
    you need the police to be seen constantly, patrols from 2-3x people - constantly across ALL streets

    Right! Street crime without enough walking outfits cannot be curbed. And the cynological service needs to be strengthened multiple times and involved in patrols. And for improper parking, glue a fine sticker on the windshield. This is particular, of course, but important ...
  37. Demetrius
    Demetrius 13 November 2013 11: 42 New
    0
    Quote: Tersky
    Quote: domokl
    .After the reform events, we all know.

    Alexander, hi ! I will add a little visual agitation, for a better perception of the consequences laughing(clickable)

    Well, not quite like that: http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst/most-heavily-policed-countri
    es
  38. Wiruz
    Wiruz 13 November 2013 11: 49 New
    +1
    Oh, got a bureaucracy ...
  39. iConst
    iConst 13 November 2013 11: 56 New
    0
    Quote: Viking
    It resembles a classic inverted triangle - where there are a dozen inspectors, supervisors, guides, and others and others ... per patrol officer ...

    This is a "reciprocal" reaction of dull-headed government officials - ordinary employees do not work well - which means you need to put an inspector in charge and check, check ...
    Oh - the "inspectors" do not check well - we need to put inspectors to them ...
  40. iConst
    iConst 13 November 2013 12: 08 New
    +2
    Quote: matRoss
    Right! Street crime without enough walking outfits cannot be curbed. And the cynological service needs to be strengthened multiple times and involved in patrols. And for improper parking, glue a fine sticker on the windshield. This is particular, of course, but important ...

    It's not about quantity, but quality. Take one hard worker and one hundred loafers. Arithmetic: 1x1 = 1; 100x0 = 0. At least a thousand, even a million.

    But you are absolutely right about the prevention of minor violations, which are the foundation for more serious ones, because they create an atmosphere of permissiveness and general indifference. I voiced my "Khabarik Theory".
    And then: the rule of law is largely on the citizens themselves. It is not mentally accepted in our country to "knock", prison romanticism is still rushing in "Russian chanson". And what do we want after that?
    1. Viking
      Viking 13 November 2013 12: 48 New
      +2
      Quote: iConst
      prison romanticism and rushing in "Russian chanson".

      By the way, it was rightly noticed - if all over the world "chanson" is a romantic song (well, exaggerating), then in Russia chanson is often a criminal prison song.
  41. sub307
    sub307 13 November 2013 12: 09 New
    +1
    And why not "reform" one more time. The occupation is expensive and there is no responsibility.
  42. I am
    I am 13 November 2013 12: 42 New
    +1
    Bullshit it all! It is necessary skolkovo and personally nanoGlavnyuk to entrust the development of ROBOKOPA !!!!!! This thing will be !!! And then ...... damn it will be in life, a continuous order!
  43. kmike
    kmike 13 November 2013 12: 44 New
    +4
    A lot of acquaintances were reduced in connection with the reform of the police. Very worthy people who have repeatedly been on business trips to the Caucasus. My son went to get to the police, to the teaching staff. For a whole year they humdied, ended up being unsuitable (for health), I don’t know, maybe it was necessary to shove someone. As a result, I went to the FSB, went through various commissions for six months, psychologists, everything is fine, my health is excellent. PPS (patrol service) to catch drunks, to keep order on the street, is much cooler and more responsible than service in the FSB, comes to idiocy.
  44. shtanko.49
    shtanko.49 13 November 2013 13: 12 New
    0
    Quote: os9165
    This led to the fact that now many territories are simply not covered from crime. People are forced to defend themselves. After the reform events, we all know.
    Exclusively to the point. By the number of employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, we are ahead of the rest, and there is no one to walk on the earth. Sponsored managers. As something ventures Medvedev wait "Kemsku volost"

    It’s exactly how Medvedev will break everything in or sell it out, an effective manager in a word. And as a result of such reforms, they remove those that are not acceptable to the authorities, and they don’t give a damn about the professionalism, you can make friends with bandits, why fight with them.
  45. The comment was deleted.
  46. Terrible ensign
    Terrible ensign 13 November 2013 13: 46 New
    +4
    In organs senility grows stronger from year to year. Tolerated until 2004. More could not.
    The working "Soviet law enforcement system" was actively destroyed even under Andropov by the KGB purges and reinforcement. It's sad to talk about the 90s, but the "shaft of stupidity" that began after Kulikov in the ministers of the Interior continued on the rise under Nurgaliev and, ultimately, resulted in the "Medvedev reform", it is necessary to stop, otherwise it may well have to be implemented " divine dystopia "about ASB in his book" Culling "...
    All real "cops" with the past! Health, well-being and calm shifts!
  47. Drosselmeyer
    Drosselmeyer 13 November 2013 14: 21 New
    +1
    In Ukraine, it seems that there are a lot of policemen in total, but in fact there is only one "bobby" on duty in the urban area. They just physically do not have time to quickly go to the crime scene. And the attitude and respect for the police is at zero. Moreover, the police have already gradually ceased to even be afraid, they can openly use foul language and even resist. And if there is some kind of turmoil with the participation of a couple of dozen citizens, the policemen stand like mice.
  48. limon
    limon 13 November 2013 15: 01 New
    +3
    Separatists need the municipal police. This is another step towards the division of society. I hope this insanity does not materialize.
  49. arnulla
    arnulla 13 November 2013 15: 19 New
    +1
    And that Kudrin was silent about the reform when he was in power? Another liberal clown-balabol ... Theorists, ..
  50. Forest
    Forest 13 November 2013 15: 24 New
    -2
    Let the mendel with the nurgali for the reform passed answer in all severity of the law.