Military Review

Fight for the Arctic: Russia's icebreaking superiority

144
With regret we have to state the fact that over the past two and a half decades, our country has descended lower and lower along the steps of scientific and technological progress. In some areas, progress was initially replaced by stagnation, and then stagnation was completely replaced by frank regress. However, despite years of total underfunding and greater concern with political PR and, let's say, with daily bread, those technical segments remained that were not degraded and remained at an acceptable level. One of these segments is Russia's icebreaking fleet, which today appears to be the most impressive in the world.


Why was it specifically about the icebreaker navy? The reason is that for some time now an increasing number of states are inclined to turn their attention to the Arctic - a geostrategic region with its myriad wealth. Obviously, plans for active intervention in, say, the sharing of a large Arctic pie are impossible without the existence of ships capable of working effectively in the harsh conditions of the North. Russia has such ships. The states competing in the development of the Arctic are currently behind the level of development of icebreaking fleets from Russia. In order to keep this advantage of the Russian Federation in the future, the icebreaker group of the Russian Federation needs to be updated and supplemented, since the laying of all nuclear-powered icebreakers remaining on the move took place when the existence of such a state as the USSR on the world map. Most of the icebreakers have been maintained and upgraded. But is this enough to maintain a leading position in terms of the presence of an icebreaking fleet in the Arctic?

If we talk about the largest icebreakers that Russia has at the moment, the fleet is as follows:

Atomic icebreaker "50 Years of Victory" (project 10521). It is the largest, not only in Russia, but also in the world. The overall width of this giant is 30 meters, the maximum length is about 159,6 meters, the draft is 11 m, the power at the shafts (the energy flow directed at the shafts from the propulsion unit) is 49 MW, the propulsive power is 54 MW. Displacement - 25168 tons. The maximum ice thickness that the icebreaker is designed to cope with is 2,8. The crew is 106 people (today). Commissioned in the 2007 year JSC "Baltiysky Zavod" (laid back in 1989 year).


Nuclear icebreaker "50 years of Victory"


Not much behind the technical parameters of the "50 years of Victory" nuclear-powered icebreaker "Yamal". Launched in the 1992 year (tab of the 1986 of the year). Length - 148 meters, width - 30 meters, draft - a little more than 11 m. Displacement - 23000 tons. Propulsion power - 54 MW. Manufacturer - Baltzavod (St. Petersburg). Designed for maximum ice thickness 2 meter. In fact, working in the ice to 2,7-2,8 m. Crew - to 150 people.

Atomic icebreaker "Taimyr". The main direction of use is navigation along the Siberian rivers (river mouths). Laid down in Soviet times in Finland. The customer, of course, the Soviet Union. Maximum length - 151,8 m, width - 29,2 m, displacement - 21000 tons, propulsive power - 35 MW. Draft 8,1 m. Calculation on the maximum ice thickness - 1,77 meter.

Atomic icebreaker "Vaigach". It belongs to the same project as the icebreaker Taimyr (project 10580). The bookmark took place at the same shipyard where AL "Taimyr" was laid, was put into operation in 1990 at the Baltzavod.
Until recently, icebreakers such as the “Soviet Union” (removed from the fleet in 2010 year) and “Arctic” (removed from the fleet in 2008 year) were part of the atomflot.

In addition to nuclear-powered icebreakers, diesel-electric icebreakers lead their difficult service in the Arctic and Antarctic latitudes, including "St. Petersburg" 21900 project (2006 tab of the year, put into operation in 2009 year), "Moscow" the same project (commissioned in 2008 year), "Captain Nikolaev", "Academician Trёshnikov" (introduced in 2012 year) "Ermak"(1974 commissioning year).

The grouping seems to be impressive, but to solve the tasks that are voiced by the Russian leadership today and such a grouping may not be enough. The main direction of future work is full-scale maintenance of the Northern Sea Route (NSR). So that the attractiveness of this direction of transportation of goods for foreign countries does not lose its relevance in winter (and this is a super task), we need unique icebreakers who can overcome ice jams about 3,5 m thick. It would seem that it is simply impossible to solve this problem, but it is pleasant to be aware not only of what is possible, but also that the problem is being solved now.

At the same Baltic plant (the real cradle of the Russian atomic icebreaking fleet) in January of this year, the construction of an icebreaker of a new project, LK-60Я, began. The value of 60 in the name of the project suggests that the power (on the shafts) of this more than 172-meter colossus will be 60 MW (more than the most powerful to date AL "50 years of Victory"). The designers have increased the width of the icebreaker - to 33 meters. This will allow container ships and other vessels of suitable dimensions to be carried along the Northern Sea Route, - those that today, even if desired, their owners cannot sail along the NSR - the width is large. Nuclear reactors are developed in the experimental design bureau named. Afrikantov, representing the company "Rosatom". It is noteworthy that the maximum landing of icebreakers of the project LC-XNUMHA will be 60 m - less than that of the same AL "10,5 Victory Years". This will allow such an icebreaker to bring ships close to the mouths of some Siberian rivers. The commissioning of the first icebreaker of this project (a total of such ALs will be built 50) is scheduled for 3 year. They plan to assign him the legendary name "Arctic".

This update of the icebreaker group of Russia does not stop. The plans include the construction of a real arctic monster 200-meter length and almost 40-meter width, with a displacement of more than 55,5 thousand tons, the capacity of which will almost twice exceed the capacity of the current icebreaker "50 years of Victory". This is project LK-110Я. It is he who will have to turn the Northern Sea Route into a trade route that operates year-round, since it is designed with a view to working in ice about 3,5-3,6 m thick. The development of the reactor is carried out in the above-mentioned OKBM named after Afrikantov.

By and large, Russian nuclear-powered icebreakers in the Arctic do not have much competition now, but if we also have new ships of this type with more power, then Russia can safely talk about complete technical and technological monopolization in this region. In 2008, US congressmen issued a statement about the growing influence of the Russian icebreaking fleet in the Arctic. At the same time, it was calculated that in the coming years the USA will need at least 3-s billion dollars just to start implementing its own project to create powerful nuclear-powered icebreakers capable of operating in any latitude of the Arctic. But the idea of ​​new spending at the time of a major crisis somehow did not please the majority, and the United States does not have its own full-fledged analogue of the Northern Sea Route, and therefore decided that the Russians "would then catch up and overtake". In addition, a small group of congressmen insisted that nuclear-powered icebreakers in the Arctic would soon be superfluous, for global warming, melting and everything like that ... 5 years passed - in the United States, little has changed in the implementation of icebreaking programs, and in the Arctic in winter, it still happens for minus 45 and below (on the issue of early warming and large-scale melting of ice) ...

However, Americans are far from Russia's only competitors in the Arctic. Not so long ago a Chinese icebreaker "Snow Dragon" "Strolled" along the Northern Sea Route, apparently, after analyzing how freely merchant ships from China to Europe could be carried out here.


Chinese icebreaker "Snow Dragon"


He “walked” in the summer (2012 of the year), and in the summer and in the winter the NSR is, as they say, two big differences. At the same time, the Internet began to walk a joke about how much the crew of the Russian nuclear-powered ship "50 years of Victory" will take from the Chinese, if suddenly their "Snow Dragon" does not have time to leave home before September-October ... A joke with a hint of power and dimensions of the "Dragon "...

However, jokes and jokes, and not only the Chinese started building their icebreakers. South Korea also joined the number of icebreaking powers, having built several years ago "Araon" length 110 m and a displacement of about 7 thousand tons. Not a giant of course, but already managed to be noted by the fact that the Russian trawler “Sparta” (the truth was not in the Arctic, but in the Antarctic, but still) got out of the ice captivity.

Fight for the Arctic: Russia's icebreaking superiority

South Korean icebreaker "Araon"


So, our superiority in terms of the work of the icebreaker fleet needs to be proved in practice, continuing to build new powerful machines capable of solving the most ambitious tasks both in the Arctic and at any point of the world’s ocean.

Infographics (from CG-WWM, USA) on icebreaking fleets of different countries of the world:

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  1. Canep
    Canep 12 November 2013 07: 46
    89
    In Russia, icebreakers like mattress-carriers are more aircraft carriers than in the rest of the world in the place taken. This is one of the indicators of state priorities.
    1. Igor39
      Igor39 12 November 2013 08: 20
      37
      After all, not only icebreakers are needed, but also ice-class vessels that will follow icebreakers among huge chunks of crushed ice, no one says how much money and time are needed to build such a fleet.
      1. APES
        APES 12 November 2013 11: 04
        25
        Quote: Igor39
        not only icebreakers


        It remains to add that in the Arctic - only our aircraft can fly normally
        1. nerd.su
          nerd.su 12 November 2013 13: 50
          +3
          Quote: APES

          It remains to add that in the Arctic - only our aircraft can fly normally

          that's just more and more Boeing flies ... the trend, as in the rest of Russia sad
      2. GSH-18
        GSH-18 12 November 2013 11: 05
        +9
        Quote from the article: "In 2008, US congressmen issued a statement on the growing influence of the Russian icebreaker fleet in the Arctic."
        ================================================== ==
        Yes, look, you’re already sticking your nose here! And this is the case when you can say with pleasure, no guys, your jo will not pull! laughing
        1. Basarev
          Basarev 16 November 2013 17: 53
          +3
          And only our ICBMs can cross the Arctic Ocean
      3. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 12 November 2013 11: 23
        17
        Quote: Igor39
        After all, not only icebreakers are needed, but also ice-class vessels that will follow icebreakers among huge chunks of crushed ice


        We have them. hi



        Greetings to all. yes
        1. postman
          postman 12 November 2013 12: 16
          +4
          Quote: Karlsonn
          We have them.

          Amazing, informative video ...
          Only?
          But:
          1. Tanker Timothy Guzhenko (RS number: 080202, IMO number: 9372561, Call sign: UBQF5)
          Manufacturer Samsung Heavy Industries
          (good at least Port of registry: Bolshoy port of St.-Petersburg)
          2. the project, the same them (the southern country, but by the way 93% of world shipbuilding dv over 60000tn belongs to them)
          http://www.shi.samsung.co.kr/eng/Product/p_major_01.html
          3. Arctic energy project Varandey (the operator of the Naryanmarneftegas project is a joint venture of OAO NK Lukoil and ConocoPhillips).
          ====
          Well, except that "our mother" (primordial):
          The Godmother of the new tanker became I. Iva? new, spouse Vice? Premier of the Government of the Russian Federation S. Ivanov.
          Although moreover, here is the wife of the ever-smiling Vice-HZ.
          1. Karlsonn
            Karlsonn 12 November 2013 12: 49
            +8
            Quote: Postman
            Amazing, informative video ...
            Only?
            But:


            Comrade, did you expect something different from the National Geographer? laughing They can be even tougher.

            Quote: Postman
            1. Tanker Timothy Guzhenko (RS number: 080202, IMO number: 9372561, Call sign: UBQF5)
            Manufacturer Samsung Heavy Industries
            (good at least Port of registry: Bolshoy port of St.-Petersburg)
            2. the project, the same them (the southern country, but by the way 93% of world shipbuilding dv over 60000tn belongs to them)


            And what? The Chinese have come up with rockets and gunpowder, where should we go now?
            Comrade is that we build ships not only at our shipyards - it’s sad, but the essence is that far from all states can afford an icebreaking fleet. The same South Korea can custom-build an icebreaker class tanker with a displacement of almost 100 000 tons, but as a country, South Korea can afford one icebreaker with a displacement of 7 000 tons.
            Do you feel the difference?

            --------
            ... Well, except that "our mother" (primordial):
            I. Iva became the “godmother” of the new tanker ... new ...


            Well, you're just like a fairy tale to us laughing, in Russia only when the Bolsheviks did not steal frantically, re-read our classics:

            “Two hundred years ago, the historian Karamzin visited France. Russian emigrants asked him:
            - What, in a nutshell, is happening at home?
            Karamzin didn’t need two words.
            - They steal, - answered Karamzin ... "

            CAPACITIES: purely secret:
            - And so (they steal) all over the world. wink
            1. postman
              postman 12 November 2013 14: 59
              -3
              I rolled my lip, watching the video that the tanker "Timofey Guzhenko" -OUR !!!!
              By the end of the video (remote control, monitors, equipment -NO WORDS in Russian), it came to a conclusion: Madein is not with us.
              Quote: Karlsonn
              but as a country, South Korea can afford one icebreaker with a displacement of 7 tons.

              Not right for 100%, South Korea can afford the icebreaking and tanker fleet MORE than the Russian Federation ...
              Only he (the fleet) does not need her, due to the geographical location.
              (Note to Angara they finance us)

              Quote: Karlsonn
              ships not only in their shipyards - sadly,

              VERY: We can’t build such tankers, what can we say about defense
              I was at the shipyards of Hyundai, and in St. Petersburg essno, during the descent and testing of our "stealth frigate" ...Feel the difference
              Quote: Karlsonn
              and so (steal) all over the world

              I will answer WITHOUT a secret, since we have- DO NOT STEAL ANYWHERE
              1. Karlsonn
                Karlsonn 12 November 2013 15: 25
                +6
                Quote: Postman
                I rolled my lip, watching the video that the tanker "Timofey Guzhenko" -OUR !!!!


                The fact that it was built in Korea does not make it not ours, our tank building began with "Vickers" and "Christie" and no cho request - we are ahead of the rest.


                Quote: Postman
                Not right for 100%, South Korea can afford the icebreaking and tanker fleet MORE than the Russian Federation ...


                Kamrad, yesterday I tried to argue with one here crying , the fact that South Korea is a world leader in shipbuilding is not proof that South Korea can afford to have an icebreaking fleet - not a senile cap.

                But the fact that Russia places orders for icebreaking class ships with the best shipbuilder in the world speaks volumes.

                Quote: Postman
                Only he (the fleet) does not need her, due to the geographical location.


                Everyone needs such a fleet, without regard to the geographical position and tasks for it, I immediately come up with a bunch. bully

                Quote: Postman
                VERY: We can’t build such tankers, what can we say about defense


                We build at our shipyards - ATOMIC ICE BREAKERS and order icebreaking class ships in South Korea - feel the difference! wink

                Quote: Postman
                I will answer WITHOUT a secret, as we- DO NOT STEAL ANYWHERE


                Come on laughing , the fact that you do not see a comrade gopher, does not mean that it is not.

                Purely for the seed (how to cut the loot and master the budget in the USA):

                The reason for the death of 80 percent of American soldiers in Iraq is poor-quality bulletproof vests. The Pentagon withdraws five million body armor.

                The U.S. Army recalled about five million body armor, including those used by the military in Afghanistan and Iraq, The Times writes.

                zinc - http://news2.ru/story/319762/
                1. postman
                  postman 12 November 2013 16: 01
                  +1
                  Quote: Karlsonn
                  and no cho request - we are ahead of the rest.

                  There was a war, the largest in the history of Ch. And we played a major role.
                  Our tanks yes WERE ahead of the rest.
                  Quote: Karlsonn
                  the best shipbuilder in the world says a lot.

                  This suggests that we cannot build them by technological limitations (and could not)
                  Quote: Karlsonn
                  that South Korea can afford to have an icebreaker fleet - not a senile cap.

                  I assure you "by senka"
                  The economy of South Korea as of 2011 is the 12th in the world in terms of gross domestic product (at purchasing power parity) and the 15th in the world in nominal GDP ($ 1 billion)
                  Nominal GDP of Russia in 2012 amounted to $ 2,014 trillion, 8th place in the world (economy)
                  SK is the 2nd shipbuilder in the world with an annual increase (real, not paper) of GDP from 5 to 7%,Gold and foreign exchange reserves, $ 320,1 billion (at the end of 2011)
                  In a country in which there are no (natural resources), they are not shy and the RICE MARKET_CLOSED
                  (open only in 2014)


                  Quote: Karlsonn
                  and tasks for him I’ll come up with a bunch

                  I would like to know the "bundle" for South Korea: ???

                  Quote: Karlsonn
                  We build at our shipyards - ATOMIC ICE-BREAKERS and order

                  Taimyr and Vaigach were built in Finland at the Wärtsilä shipyard (Värtsilä Marine Engineering)
                  The rest in the USSR
                  Even "50 Years of Victory" (project 10521) With a VERY GREAT stretch, you can say "we", "We" only finished building it and for a VERY LONG
                  Quote: Karlsonn
                  Purely for the seed (how to cut the loot and master the budget in the USA):

                  1. These figures are simply ridiculous in comparison with the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, or with Sochi the same

                  2: The source of trust information does not inspire
                  1. Karlsonn
                    Karlsonn 12 November 2013 17: 33
                    +2
                    Quote: Postman
                    Our tanks yes WERE ahead of the rest.


                    This is your personal opinion.

                    Quote: Postman
                    This suggests that we cannot build them by technological limitations (and could not)


                    And what? belay Americans fly into space on our engines and notice the groans of how bad things are with rocket science in the US from US citizens you can’t hear, so what are you complaining about?

                    Quote: Postman
                    The economy of South Korea as of 2011 is the 12 in the world in terms of gross domestic product


                    And do you seriously consider this an indicator? I don’t want to write you a sheet, just notice:
                    - in the UK, two-thirds of the runway is the service sector; tell someone else about this gross domestic product.

                    Quote: Postman
                    UK - 2 shipbuilder in the world with annual growth (real, not paper


                    46% is the share of the shipbuilding market in South Korea, I want to know who takes the first place.

                    Quote: Postman
                    In a country in which there is no (natural resources), do not shy


                    There is coal and uranium.

                    Quote: Postman
                    RICE MARKET_CLOSED
                    (open only in 2014)


                    How is it? This is a reduction to 8-9% of rice imports by 2014 year, that's all.

                    Quote: Postman
                    I would like to know the "bundle" for South Korea: ???


                    - posting caravans,
                    - research and scientific activities,
                    - development of the polar regions,
                    - tourism
                    - rescue operations,
                    - military activity ...

                    Quote: Postman
                    Taimyr and Vaigach were built in Finland at the Wärtsilä shipyard (Värtsilä Marine Engineering)
                    The rest in the USSR
                    Even "50 Years of Victory" (project 10521) With a VERY GREAT stretch, you can say "we", "We" only finished building it and for a VERY LONG


                    Comrade, cross the news again. wink

                    Quote: Postman
                    . These numbers are simply ridiculous in comparison with the Russian Defense Ministry, or with Sochi


                    I gave only one example of corruption in the United States, if you give yourself the trouble to research this issue you will discover a lot of interesting things.

                    Beijing Olympics budget is 44 billion.

                    Quote: Postman
                    2: The source of trust information does not inspire


                    What exactly was the democratic mouthpiece of The Times caused your distrust?
                    1. postman
                      postman 13 November 2013 00: 44
                      -1
                      Quote: Karlsonn
                      This is your personal opinion.

                      The stump is clear, I have never claimed the opposite.
                      ("the armor is strong and our tanks are fast" .... Before Moscow-Leningrad-Volga and the Caucasus, it was very fast)
                      Quote: Karlsonn
                      Americans fly into space on our engines

                      engines is mine (specialty E1.1-LRE), repeat:
                      -Americans are extremely mercantile, at that price, no one will sell them
                      Quote: Karlsonn
                      and notice the groans how bad things are with rocket science in the US from US citizens are not heard

                      Who said such stupidity that there (in the USA) is bad with rocket science?
                      What kind of deer is this?
                      Quote: Karlsonn
                      so what are you complaining about?

                      For what? (Well, in the sense of what I complained about?)
                      Quote: Karlsonn
                      How is it?

                      Last year, per capita rice consumption in South Korea was the lowest in 40 years.
                      +
                      Entry into force of the free trade agreements (FTAs) of the Republic of Kazakhstan with the USA and the European Union
                      = market open, import allowed
                      Dazu crisis is over


                      Quote: Karlsonn
                      - in the UK, two-thirds of the runway is the service sector; tell someone else about this gross domestic product.

                      I'm not telling anyone anything
                      - you read the wiki, read wisely, so as not to repeat silly, visit Hyundai


                      -and we have 80-90% of GDP? make up commonplace oil gas?
                      1. postman
                        postman 13 November 2013 00: 47
                        -2
                        Quote: Karlsonn
                        - posting caravans,
                        and so on (other nonsense)
                        WHERE??? WHERE?
                        What a heresy. SC allocated a piece of the Northern Sea Route? Or the supply of Alaska, the United States gave?
                        Quote: Karlsonn
                        Kamrad, cross the news again

                        Genosse open your eyes and see WHAT TO BUILD !!!
                        Kozhubetych there conceived the re-equipment of ice, the current failure:
                        -Babs, finance
                        -Where to build? = study this question in more detail
                        Quote: Karlsonn
                        if you give yourself the trouble to research this issue, you will discover a lot of interesting things.

                        I will not open it: I (the question) him in the USA and in Germany I know very well. And not the farting of the Russian yellow press

                        Quote: Karlsonn
                        Beijing Olympics budget is 44 billion.

                        Budget (at the rate of 6,8 yuan for $ 1.): Plans - $ 14,3 billion
                        What did you spend on: $ 1,8 billion - construction of sports facilities ($ 500 million each - Beijing national stadiums open and closed; other facilities - National Stadium, Shuylifan Swimming Center, Ukesun Cultural Sports Center, Indun Water Sports Center), $ 3 billion - a new airport in Beijing with a capacity of 30 million people per year.
                        Quote: Karlsonn
                        What exactly is the democratic mouthpiece of The Times

                        - I do not like democrats
                        -This is not the times, you retell the news from other people's words
                        - And it's a little bit wrong: According to a Pentagon secret report, referenced by the publication, the lives of soldiers could be saved slightly more expensive body armor ($ 260 apiece).
                  2. Evgenij.
                    Evgenij. 12 November 2013 17: 47
                    +3
                    1. These figures are simply ridiculous in comparison with the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, or with Sochi the same
                    Especially in the picture, if you are so ardent and want to figure it out, then take out a list of the ones built and reconstructed in Sochi, discard exclusively sporting objects and finally understand how much they built there, FOR PEOPLE!
                    1. Karlsonn
                      Karlsonn 12 November 2013 20: 19
                      +4
                      Quote: Evgenij.
                      finally, how much was built there FOR PEOPLE!
                      yes

                      In addition, there are indirect costs for the Olympics, in particular for military units that will ensure security.
                      Purchased a whole bunch of everything (and built too):
                      - weapons
                      - professional alpine skiing and climbing equipment,
                      - military and other equipment (in particular, deputy group commanders for the assault rifle are regularly given EOTech 512 sights) .... anyone who is interested can learn about the 16 separate special-purpose brigade, its way of life and service, here is zinc - http: // twower .livejournal.com / 661958.html
                    2. postman
                      postman 13 November 2013 00: 54
                      0
                      Quote: Evgenij.
                      Especially in the picture, if you are so ardent and want to figure it out, then bring up a list of built and reconstructed in Sochi

                      1. I'm not ardent
                      2. I am VERY closely connected with this topic, we work there (or rather we supply equipment)
                      3. I have close friends with this topic, they work there
                      IMHO I do not need to take anything
                      Quote: Evgenij.
                      and finally understand how much everything was built there, FOR PEOPLE!

                      1. What a nonsense. IFRASTRUCTURE CREATED IN SOCHI-EXCESSIVE
                      2. BUILT HERENOVO. Need? I can let you read what a friend of the World Cup winner wrote, breaking her leg there (rarely you hear such a mat from a girl)
                      3. For the people ... oh naive. THIS WILL BE: at the residual book value, tidbits (hotels, roads, slopes, lifts, etc.) built with BUDGET money (for expensive) will be sold (for cheap) to anyone and when necessary.
                  3. 31231
                    31231 12 November 2013 18: 03
                    +2
                    Demotivating non-living picture?
                    And there is nothing official ?! It is advisable to estimate, purely on the deer, and not the infrastructure for the city of Adler and Sochi.
                    1. postman
                      postman 13 November 2013 00: 59
                      0
                      Quote: 31231
                      purely on the deer

                      purely on DEERno pyad, not related to deer belay
                      Quote: 31231
                      and not the infrastructure for the city of Adler and Sochi.

                      These are inseparable moments

                      Quote: 31231
                      And there is nothing official ?!

                      Do not understand..
                      “Our country may have invested more money in general in training, but our country has not invested more than any other country, in fact, in the Olympic venues. A total of 214 billion rubles will be spent on preparations for the Olympic Games, ”said President Vladimir Putin in an interview with Channel One and the Associated Press.
                      “Even more money has been spent on infrastructure. We did it consciously. We did this so that the south of the Russian Federation, and Russia is a sufficiently northern country, was attractive and comfortable, not only during the Olympic Games, but also for decades later, ”Putin added.
                      ===============

                      The total costs of the Sochi Olympics increased to 1,526 trillion rubles, or 37,5 billion euros, which is five times more than the original estimate in 2007. The Sochi Olympics have long been dubbed the most expensive of all the winter games. However, it turned out that there was no limit to expenses: it would become the most expensive in the history of games, breaking even the record of summer competitions in Beijing.
                  4. Ramadan
                    Ramadan 12 November 2013 21: 54
                    +3
                    What did you stick to this Sochi ?? As if if this money was allowed to go to housing and communal services or to Avtodor, would you immediately heal in chocolate ??
                    1. postman
                      postman 13 November 2013 01: 03
                      0
                      Quote: Ramazan
                      What did you stick to this Sochi ??

                      And what not?
                      Quote: Ramazan
                      As if if this money was allowed to go to housing and communal services or to Avtodor

                      - already let in, stole as fast
                      -What do you mean "let in"? You can run AVAILABLE (income), or print.
                      If you are associated with the payment of taxes (personal income tax, profit, VAT, customs payments), you will understand why you are pestering. I will allow myself to feel this (someone compromised and bought apartments in Moscow for $ Lyama, and someone will pay taxes, which is necessary + compensation for compensation)
                      -
                      Quote: Ramazan
                      then you immediately heal in chocolate ??

                      I don’t need much, much less chocolate I don’t like
                      1. Ramadan
                        Ramadan 13 November 2013 21: 47
                        +2
                        I understand very well what you are talking about))
                        They steal one way or another at all major construction sites and this is a guaranteed fact. then I have a question, if they steal everywhere, then what does Sochi have to do with it?
                        It's no secret that a rollback of 5-10% of the contract amount is still considered "humanly".
                        And now I have a question for everyone. What if the company does not pull out on the so-called retail? Reduce salaries or lay off employees? Do not pay taxes? And in order to take the medium and especially the large project, you need to roll back, then you can load your capacities.
                        Having shown nobility and refusing to pay a kickback, your competitor will certainly take advantage of this. Knowing the competitors personally, I have no doubt about this, 95% of them will do it without hesitation.
                        Do you think that they built the same bridge on Russky Island? My familiar builder worked there on a subcontract. And if you don’t bring it, then you will not accept the work done and will throw it on the remaining amount. If they are not able to pay off the workers, pay taxes, etc. in the chain ...
                        To summarize, I believe that corruption must still be fought. Difficult, but possible and necessary. The truth is I can not imagine how ....
                      2. Basarev
                        Basarev 16 November 2013 18: 07
                        +1
                        Stalin fought extremely successfully ...
            2. Evgenij.
              Evgenij. 12 November 2013 17: 42
              +2
              VERY: We can’t build such tankers, what can we say about defense
              I was at the shipyards of Hyundai, well, in St. Petersburg essno, during the descent and testing of our "stealth frigate" ... Feel the difference

              Ask what is being completed in Vladik

              I will answer WITHOUT a secret, as we- DO NOT STEAL ANYWHERE
              How to check, than prove?
              1. 31231
                31231 12 November 2013 18: 05
                +3
                I will answer WITHOUT a secret, as we- DO NOT STEAL ANYWHERE
                How to check, than prove?


                And I, an additional question arose to the respected postman: how does he know how many steal in other countries and how many steal there?
                1. postman
                  postman 13 November 2013 01: 12
                  0
                  Quote: 31231
                  how does he know how many steal

                  1. Budget (s) open
                  2. poor head of DeutschePost, all that is a small fraud with finances and Liechtenstein ..
                  3. Poor former head of the German Ministry of Defense: if you think you took your mistress on a business plane to Spain, he himself flew on business
                  4.X X X- I would not want to name these famous companies ... but they stole it a bit (by our standards)
                  5.A HAVE DATA HOW MUCH THEY ARE STEALED FROM YOU?
                  It would be interesting
                  But just not JP please
                  1. stalkerwalker
                    stalkerwalker 13 November 2013 08: 59
                    +4
                    Quote: Postman
                    It would be interesting
                    But just not JP please

                    In!
                    We started for health ...
                    Continuing the theme of SevMorPuti.
                    Icebreakers alone cannot solve the problem, the Postman is right.
                    We need auxiliary icebreakers, as well as vessels of not just ice class, but reinforced ice class (UL). At their cost, they are not far from the icebreakers (auxiliary). In recent years, the USSR was built in Finland and transferred to shipping companies (Murmansk and Far East) such ships (popularly nicknamed "! Carrots", for the carrot color of the hull). Most of them have been sold, a couple of them remained in Murmansk (they are carrying ore from Norilsk), in Vladik, in my opinion, there is nothing left.
                    And finally. Such specialized vessels require specialized support (work at low temperatures, in ice leads to accelerated wear of the main engines, the ship's hull, and mechanisms). And in Russia the fleet, as such, did not remain. Everything that floats under the Russian tricolor belongs to the category "could not sell for an acceptable price."
                    Summary.
                    To fully ensure year-round navigation on SevMorPuti, Russia needs to invest no less than MORE than invested in Sochi. But it is not known whether there will be a return.
                    1. Basarev
                      Basarev 16 November 2013 18: 11
                      0
                      It is necessary to abandon capitalist standards. Profit is not an end in itself. It is necessary to build for the domestic and international prestige of the Motherland, regardless of means. But at the same time it is extremely strict to ensure that they do not steal a penny. Experience of the thirties already exists. So it remains to heat up projects - and forward.
              2. Karlsonn
                Karlsonn 12 November 2013 20: 29
                +3
                Quote: Evgenij.
                Ask what is being completed in Vladik


                To those who shout that



                It may be recalled that in St. Petersburg, the Admiralty Shipyards OJSC is building six submarines of the 636 B-237 project for the Russian Black Sea Fleet, so our shipyards are not idle either. hi
              3. postman
                postman 13 November 2013 01: 05
                -2
                Quote: Evgenij.
                Ask what is being completed in Vladik

                enlighten, I will be grateful
                Quote: Evgenij.
                How to check, than prove?

                But am I obliged?
                1. zardoz
                  zardoz 13 November 2013 08: 29
                  0
                  Quote: Postman
                  But am I obliged?


                  Then about corruption in Sochi can enlighten?
                  1. postman
                    postman 13 November 2013 11: 50
                    -1
                    Quote: zardoz
                    Then about corruption in Sochi can enlighten?

                    I do not understand the question!
                    -How to enlighten? (shape, volume)
                    Why in Sochi? (There are no cash flows in Sochi)
                    -and what do you need to shine? More specifically !!!
                    1. zardoz
                      zardoz 13 November 2013 12: 23
                      0
                      - by numbers
                      - You can also in the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation (they raised the issue themselves)
                      - Well, sobsna corruption
      4. Tersky
        Tersky 12 November 2013 13: 58
        +7
        Quote: Karlsonn
        We have them.

        And in theory they should still grow. The Russian government decided to allocate budgetary investments for the construction of two new nuclear icebreakers such as LK-60Я.
        On 19 on August 2013, Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev signed Decree No. 715, which addresses the allocation of budgetary investments for the construction of two serial universal nuclear icebreakers in 2014 – 2020. The first icebreaker should be commissioned in 2019, the second in 2020.
        As follows from the text of the resolution, the total investment is 86 105,43 million rubles. At the same time, the estimated cost of building the first icebreaker is 42 002,81 million rubles, and the second - 44 102,62 million rubles. The state customer in relation to the construction of icebreakers has established the Rosatom Corporation and the Atomflot FSUE. Read fully here
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 12 November 2013 14: 35
          +2
          Quote: Tersky
          And in theory they should still grow.


          Great news comrade! drinks

          Share your skill, how did you fix it "here"?
          1. Tersky
            Tersky 12 November 2013 14: 41
            +4
            You write whatever you like (here, read, link, etc.), copy the resource address, select the word, press "Insert link" in the comet window menu (the chain immediately after inserting the smiley). In the window that opens, paste the link, and ..... Good luck drinks !
            1. Karlsonn
              Karlsonn 12 November 2013 15: 26
              +1
              Thank you so much. drinks hi
      5. Sirs
        Sirs 13 November 2013 07: 46
        0
        In the video on the screw assembly is C.T. - acceptance made
    2. Grandson of Veteran
      Grandson of Veteran 12 November 2013 18: 50
      +2
      Such vessels are already in operation. The same "Rosneft" operates an icebreaker transport ship. Not an icebreaking vessel, but an icebreaker. Used to supply production sites in the Arctic. The ship's counter-ice breaks, going stern forward, turns around in clear water and spits, like everyone else, in the bow. I don't remember the displacement, but the ship is huge. Carries everything from fuel to bulk cargo. I think that in case of military necessity it will be withdrawn by the Armed Forces as civilian "UAZ" laughing The only negative built at the shipyard in Germany according to the German project.
      1. Basarev
        Basarev 16 November 2013 18: 15
        +1
        So what? The cruiser Varyag was also built at the Kramp shipyard in Philadelphia, but no one has the right to doubt its Russianness.
    3. timer
      timer 12 November 2013 23: 24
      +1
      I agree that vessels of Arctic specialization will be required. But I do not agree that it will take a lot of time and money. As I have already commented above, who is stopping us from establishing a shipbuilding cluster in the Far East to establish close cooperation with the same Koreans, Finns. Jointly built vessels can be used together. Also, progress in the field of materials does not stand still. In short.
  2. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 12 November 2013 09: 25
    +8
    well, the complex "klub-c" to help us ... good
  3. fzr1000
    fzr1000 12 November 2013 09: 42
    +6
    Thanks to the USSR! As with all other similar issues.
  4. Col.
    Col. 12 November 2013 10: 31
    +8
    Quote: Canep
    In Russia, icebreakers like the mattresses of aircraft carriers


    I would call the article "USSR Icebreaking Superiority". That would be more honest.
    1. Migari
      Migari 12 November 2013 12: 29
      +7
      Exactly, and most importantly, this advantage should not be missed.
      The nuclear-powered icebreaker "Arktika" was designed at the Central Design Bureau "Iceberg" and according to the design and technical documentation, the ship's design provides for a three-shaft ridge installation, aft propellers, three decks and two platforms, an elongated tank and a developed eight-tiered superstructure. The launching of the nuclear-powered vessel of the LK-60Ya project is scheduled for November 2015, sea trials should begin in August 2017, and ice tests in November 2017.
    2. Igor39
      Igor39 12 November 2013 14: 00
      +4
      That's for sure! Now there is a tendency to harass the Communists, and they have built up so much and achieved so much and done so much that we will use it for another 100 years. Collective work!
    3. Evgenij.
      Evgenij. 12 November 2013 17: 49
      +1
      like Russia and the USSR are different countries?
  5. Civil
    Civil 12 November 2013 10: 38
    +1
    But the Northern Sea Route was written off, without really explaining why ... the decision of the owner, he built the USSR perfectly, and a certain privatizer decides
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 12 November 2013 11: 30
      +3
      Quote: Civil
      But the Northern Sea Route was written off, without really explaining why ...


      Like this, watch from 19: 25

  6. WIN969
    WIN969 12 November 2013 13: 54
    +3
    Dog Gorbachev didn’t get to them and thank God, apparently the Yankees were hoping that Russia would do everything for them in the Arctic as a raw material colony, well, everything was broken off, and there’s nothing to build on, it’s obvious that our superiority in the Arctic will be undeniable in the next 20 years least.
    1. Aryan
      Aryan 12 November 2013 18: 49
      0
      about the Chinese ice drifts ...
      remember how in the 1940 USSR
      on the Northern Way led to the Pacific Ocean
      German raider Comet
      and paved his way
      and icebreaker Lenin
      and icebreaker Joseph Stalin

      then it cost us death in an unequal battle of our ice drift Sibiryakov
      not to mention what Comet did in the Pacific with the Allies

      Well, I'm talking about the fact that comets did not happen2
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. 755962
    755962 12 November 2013 19: 08
    +4
    Quote: Canep
    In Russia, icebreakers like mattress-carriers are more aircraft carriers than in the rest of the world in the place taken.

    And there will be even more ..
    United Shipbuilding Corporation buys Finnish shipyard Arktek, which is one of the world leaders in the construction of ice class ships
    http://file-rf.ru/news/16559

    Russia's positions in the Arctic are becoming more confident every day. By asserting a monopoly on the construction of an icebreaker fleet, we are establishing our control over the northern seas.
    1. Basarev
      Basarev 16 November 2013 18: 19
      0
      It will be cool to get yours back - Americans in Alaska are completely gone
  9. nycsson
    nycsson 12 November 2013 22: 20
    -4
    Quote: Canep
    In Russia, icebreakers like mattress-carriers are more aircraft carriers than in the rest of the world in the place taken. This is one of the indicators of state priorities.

    Article sucks! And here are icebreakers and the battle for the Arctic ??? Will we fight on icebreakers? The fleet needs to be built underwater and surface. request
  10. timer
    timer 12 November 2013 23: 18
    +3
    The meaning of the article is clear and understandable - in order for the NSR to work to its fullest, modern icebreakers (useful and different) are needed. But apart from the icebreakers, for some reason, the issue of building the infrastructure that will serve the NSR is missed. By the way, the Far East can become the basis for building this very infrastructure. Here you have the development of the region + jobs. You might think about creating an analogue of the Baltic Shipyard in the Far East (that is, create a number of shipyards that will be sharpened for the construction of ships for the Arctic). The shipbuilding industry is one of the high-tech.
    I see the world specialization of Russia as a transport and communication hub. And the NSR is an important component of this hub.
    1. Bekzat
      Bekzat 13 November 2013 14: 50
      0
      Greetings to all, for Timer, the right words ...
  11. Sirs
    Sirs 13 November 2013 07: 49
    0
    HERE an aircraft carrier would start to do to us, not as much because of himself but how much for new jobs - designers, technologists and many other enterprises of allied companies, new breakthrough solutions.
  • Same lech
    Same lech 12 November 2013 08: 04
    19
    I think the real breakthrough of RUSSIA in the ARCTIC will be when floating nuclear power plants are started to be operated there - this will give a powerful impetus to the industry, of course, with the right Kremlin policy.
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 12 November 2013 08: 35
      24
      Especially there is nothing to produce, there is basically an extractive industry.
      The fleet must consist of at least five nuclear icebreakers.
      How cool they look at night.
      [Center]

      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 12 November 2013 08: 46
        13
        Quote: lelikas
        The fleet must consist of at least five nuclear icebreakers.

        Yeah and put more rockets on them laughing
        1. Canep
          Canep 12 November 2013 09: 28
          16
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Yeah and put more rockets on them laughing
          Why not? Heavy nuclear missile icebreaker cruiser (TARLK) "Ivan Papanin" or "Admiral Kolchak" - sounds? And then if they come in handy when dividing Antarctica. soldier
          1. Black Colonel
            Black Colonel 12 November 2013 10: 21
            0
            Yeah and put more rockets on them
            To drive all Greenpeace workers, so that it would be disgraceful. am
            1. Simon
              Simon 12 November 2013 13: 41
              0
              And what to chase them, they will freeze into ice, they squeal from the cold themselves, they will ask the icebreaker to the rescue.
            2. stroporez
              stroporez 12 November 2013 20: 58
              +1
              Quote: Black Colonel
              To drive all Greenpeace people, so that it would be disgraceful
              Grinpisovtsev - from a slingshot, because - do not cost much .... even bullets ....... because --- parasites ...
          2. Simon
            Simon 12 November 2013 13: 39
            0
            Or maybe immediately for the Northern Fleet to build ice-breaker-type warships and icebreaker cruisers. Then, for sure, no one will snoop to the north, especially as American aircraft carriers on ice can walk it the same way. yes
          3. Basarev
            Basarev 16 November 2013 18: 32
            0
            But the Antarctic belongs to Russia as a pioneer ...
        2. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 12 November 2013 13: 20
          +8
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Yeah and put more rockets on them


          The dual purpose and use is our everything! fellow

          Soviet peace tractors - BE !!!
        3. Tersky
          Tersky 12 November 2013 14: 09
          +6
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Yeah and put more rockets on them

          Sasha, you are not far from the truth. yes ! Officially, the icebreakers of the "Arktika" type are not armed. Nevertheless, somewhere in the 1980s, a photo of the icebreaker Arktika appeared on the cover of Ogonyok magazine, after which the editor got into trouble with the KGB. The fact is that an artillery mount (presumably AK-725) flaunted on the bow of the icebreaker. Apparently, the icebreaker was tested with standard weapons, later dismantled.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 12 November 2013 14: 34
            11
            Quote: Tersky
            The fact is that on the bow of the icebreaker there was a gun mount (presumably AK-725). Apparently, the tests of the icebreaker took place with standard weapons, later dismantled.

            Well, we do not stand still and where the chest will open, one ...... Putin knows, Lord food sweep america bully
          2. Karlsonn
            Karlsonn 12 November 2013 14: 55
            +4
            Quote: Tersky
            Officially, the icebreakers of the "Arktika" type are not armed. Nevertheless, somewhere in the 1980s, a photo of the icebreaker Arktika appeared on the cover of Ogonyok magazine, after which the editor got into trouble with the KGB.


            Comrade in the 10520 project itself (icebreakers of the "Arctic" type), at the moment they are: "Arctic", "Russia", "Soviet Union", "50 years of Victory" and "Yamal"; the possibility of converting icebreakers into an auxiliary battle cruiser was laid. Accordingly, for "Arctic" and "Soviet Union" equipment and equipment are partly placed on board, partly in warehouses and mothballed.

            Quote: Tersky
            The fact is that an artillery mount (presumably AK-725) flaunted on the nose of the icebreaker.


            And in my opinion we are talking about a fire control radar and a removable artillery mount MP-123.

            Gun in case "... if tomorrow is a war, if tomorrow is a campaign ..." on the 10520 project icebreakers they are installed on the tank, on this barbet. hi
            1. Tersky
              Tersky 12 November 2013 18: 23
              +3
              Quote: Karlsonn
              The cannon in case "... if tomorrow is a war, if tomorrow is on a campaign ..." on Project 10520 icebreakers, they are installed on the tank, on this barbet.

              Respect for clarification, hi !
              1. Karlsonn
                Karlsonn 12 November 2013 20: 32
                +2
                Quote: Tersky
                Respect for clarification


                Always happy to help drinks .
                Turned over mountains of everything, but did not find pictures from the installed gun and radar. crying Obviously, the KGB destroyed everything.

                1. svp67
                  svp67 13 November 2013 00: 31
                  +4
                  Quote: Karlsonn
                  Turned over mountains of everything, but did not find pictures from the installed gun and radar. Obviously, the KGB destroyed everything.

                  Maybe this will do


      2. Same lech
        Same lech 12 November 2013 09: 14
        +2
        Mining - what is better to carry out the semi-finished product to the mainland or to conduct full ore processing on site (this requires a huge amount of energy)
        1. Tommygun
          Tommygun 12 November 2013 10: 58
          +4
          I don’t know how it is with the mining industry, but an offshore natural gas liquefaction plant is needed. But today, the construction of marine plants in the northern seas is a huge problem. Let's look at the experience of Yamal-LNG.
          1. 31231
            31231 12 November 2013 13: 32
            0
            They will build a plant, I have no doubt. It will be more fun to see how the Chinese will walk up to such a shoulder. And in winter and spring it will be a separate song.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. Valery Neonov
        Valery Neonov 12 November 2013 13: 01
        +1
        Here are just not to share with the Chinese, because they climb there too ... they mow ihu under the Chukchi ... and then they will begin to present "about the primordially Chinese territories."
      5. little man
        little man 13 November 2013 00: 25
        0
        lelikas
        Wow Space picture!
        Thank you
    2. 31231
      31231 12 November 2013 13: 29
      0
      Good things are needed for these gizmos. The Yamal and Krasnoyarsk coasts are switching to gas. Gas generators and branches from them. Only if in the coastal area of ​​Taimyr and Chukotka a large rich deposit is fed.
    3. AVV
      AVV 12 November 2013 14: 30
      0
      When, there will be not one Prirazlomnaya, but a couple of dozens !!! And other platforms for the extraction of other minerals !!! When the Northern Sea Route really starts functioning !!!
    4. JIaIIoTb
      JIaIIoTb 12 November 2013 14: 57
      +4
      Well, not only floating nuclear power plants are being prepared, they are almost ready for the start of mass production of SVBR-100.
      http://www.akmeengineering.com/svbr.html
      The SVBR-100 reactor installation is one of the main components of an innovative nuclear energy system based on the use of unified low-power reactor installations of the SVBR type with fast reactors cooled by a liquid metal lead-bismuth coolant.
      An important distinctive feature of the reactor is the integral (monoblock) layout of the primary circuit equipment, in which all primary circuit equipment (the reactor itself, steam generator modules, main circulation pumps, etc.) are housed in a single case with the complete absence of pipelines and primary circuit fittings.
      They will not only go to the North.
      According to the IAEA estimates, the global demand for low and medium power reactors (100-400 MW) to 2040 is 500-1000 units. The total capacity of this market segment is estimated at 300-600 billion.
      Amount impressive isn't it?
      So we do not live with a single oil and gas.
    5. Basarev
      Basarev 16 November 2013 18: 31
      0
      Both floating nuclear power plants are needed, and all-metal cargo airships
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 12 November 2013 08: 04
    +5
    Well, at least here we are ahead of the rest! I hope in the future it will be so! Our Arctic should be ..
    1. Gari
      Gari 12 November 2013 11: 47
      +4
      Quote: MIKHAN
      Our Arctic should be ..

      Dear colleagues, I advise you not to regret it.
      Special report “The Arctic. We have returned"

      Size: 389.17 MB
      Russia is renewing its presence in the northern latitudes on an ongoing basis. Two film crews of the Zvezda channel went on trips on vessels of the Northern Fleet: one on the Horizon military hydrographic ship to the shores of Franz Josef Land, the other as part of an Arctic military expedition, the aim of which was the archipelago of the Novosibirsk Islands and the largest of them is the island Boiler room.

      About the dangers and attractiveness of the northern latitudes, the dedicated service of naval sailors and the importance of their missions in the special report of Maxim Gritsenko and Maxim Rumyantsev.


      http://tvzvezda.ru/schedule/filmsonline/content/201311061452-yht4.htm/
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • MolGro
    MolGro 12 November 2013 08: 07
    10

    here is more detailed!
  • krasin
    krasin 12 November 2013 08: 13
    +9
    The Arctic has always been Russian and will remain it. Until recently, no one was interested in our Arctic, no one wanted to freeze snot. Build and restore scientific bases, military, develop the shelf. By longitude from these still OUR ..... their mother's leg! am
  • aszzz888
    aszzz888 12 November 2013 08: 18
    +4
    With our northern borders, you cannot survive without an icebreaker fleet. And the more modern this fleet is, the more invulnerable in terms of world championship, with possible competitors from neighboring, and not only, countries.
  • Polovec
    Polovec 12 November 2013 08: 18
    +6
    USSR left a good start! The main thing is not to merge this advantage.
    The icebreaker is a very complex ship, and if we can build such machines, then not everything is bad in terms of modern technology.
    The article pleased. The Arctic requires our presence, both civilian and military. It is also necessary to revitalize the northern airfields and ensure regular patrolling of the NSR.
  • Boris55
    Boris55 12 November 2013 08: 20
    20
    When I was looking at a map of the USSR when I was little, I kept asking myself the question why our border is at the north pole, and the rest of the states do not. Now we don’t have one ... One is happy - we are restoring the bases, so you look and again the border, in its previous form, will return to the maps.

    1. Canep
      Canep 12 November 2013 08: 25
      14
      If we defend the Lomonosov Ridge, then the Russian border will be further than the Soviet border
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 12 November 2013 08: 47
        13
        Quote: Canep
        If we defend the Lomonosov Ridge, then the Russian border will be further than the Soviet border

        And if you also return Alaska ....................... winked
        1. Canep
          Canep 12 November 2013 09: 57
          +1
          If Vanga does not lie, then Alaska itself may return after the collapse of the United States.
        2. lelikas
          lelikas 12 November 2013 10: 13
          +8
          On the issue of returns - there is an old tradition to transfer the names of the ships ....
        3. Black Colonel
          Black Colonel 12 November 2013 10: 44
          +4
          And if you also return Alaska .......
          Then for the passage along the Bering Strait as through the Panama Canal it will be necessary to take dibs. smile
  • makarov
    makarov 12 November 2013 08: 21
    19
    I remember how in the first school textbook (either the Primer, or the Native Speech) there was material about the atomic icebreaker Lenin, its brief description, capabilities, and image. Then I was proud for my country that created such a MIRACLE.
    1. polly
      polly 12 November 2013 10: 56
      +5
      Now, if such textbooks were written now, it would not be scary for the future of Russia!
  • knyazDmitriy
    knyazDmitriy 12 November 2013 08: 38
    +3
    It is necessary to build lighter carriers of the Arctic type again, I remember A. Kosygin steadily came to Nakhodka in my childhood, for the North Sea route the best solution, I took the elevator and tug it to the port, quickly and conveniently
    1. Apollo
      Apollo 12 November 2013 08: 46
      21
      On the topic and content of information.
      When the USSR (Russia) mastered the Arctic, other countries only chewed snot, but now you see, give the right to participate in development.
      Rather, a donut hole and not the Arctic. laughing
      1. pensioner
        pensioner 12 November 2013 12: 15
        +9
        Quote: Apollon
        Rather, a donut hole and not the Arctic.
        You can still add the ears of this animal:
    2. Evgenij.
      Evgenij. 12 November 2013 17: 59
      -2
      SevMorPut? worth not know what to do
    3. andrey-ivanov
      andrey-ivanov 13 November 2013 06: 02
      0
      He tried to enter Nakhodka and the atomic "Sevmorput", but it was several years after the Chernobyl accident and, in the wake of anti-nuclear hysteria, he was not allowed into the port.
  • Bort radist
    Bort radist 12 November 2013 08: 41
    +4
    It’s not enough to build an icebreaker. They still need to be able to manage - to walk in the ice. That would not sell.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • rodevaan
    rodevaan 12 November 2013 08: 43
    +9
    Icebreaking fleet - This is one of the few areas, strong groundwork that we inherited from the USSR, and which degenerate shit-democrats did not manage to take over.
    God forbid to develop this industry further, for no one has access to the North Seas like Russia. We should be there!
    Oh, Peter I would have us in this area!
    1. Ihrek
      Ihrek 12 November 2013 08: 49
      +3
      I would say one of the many backlogs inherited from the USSR.
      1. Canep
        Canep 12 November 2013 09: 20
        +5
        Very many. Unfortunately, most were relishly crashed. Education as well.
        1. stroporez
          stroporez 12 November 2013 21: 08
          0
          so accurately. and without education ----- there are no polar captains ..........
      2. SkiF_RnD
        SkiF_RnD 12 November 2013 13: 52
        +3
        How tired of reading that this or that region got from the USSR ... But where else could it get ?? The Russian Federation is 20 years old, all American achievements of the last twenty years are EXACTLY LIKELY based on the achievements of "those US times when there was a fierce enemy of the USSR" twenty years ago. The fact that the United States is leading in the achievements of recent years is due to the catastrophe of the 90s-early 2000s in our country + the advantage in financial and some other resources. What's the point in writing this at all? What's next? Yes, it got from the USSR. What's next? New ones are being built, the article says in Russian ... Yours faithfully ...
        1. Col.
          Col. 12 November 2013 16: 46
          +4
          Quote: SkiF_RnD
          How tired of reading that this or that region got from the USSR ... But where else could it get ?? RF is 20 years old, all American achievements of the last twenty years are EXACTLY LIKELY based on the achievements of those USA


          Do not confuse hell with an eggnog! The USA was and remains a capitalist militarist. The USSR was a SOCIALIST country oriented towards "ever fuller satisfaction of the growing needs of the Soviet people" (from the Program of the CPSU). And hundreds of billions of "theirs" rubles were spent on supporting the countries of "social orientation". Modern Russia is a country of wild capitalism, where 1,5% of the population suddenly became the masters of everything that tens of millions of people have created over several generations. There is no money for the support of friends and allies (and all friends were thrown away and "wasted"). Oil and gas production has hardly declined, and revenues have therefore increased. Question: "where is the money, Zin?" Answer: in the pockets of the current government, eating up the backlog of the USSR and doing NOTHING to ensure progress in areas that determine progressive development: science, education, support for the military-industrial complex, social and national politics, medicine, culture, even housing and communal services and mass sports! Everywhere - one PR and verbiage!
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 12 November 2013 17: 01
            +3
            Quote: Colonel
            And hundreds of billions of "theirs" rubles were spent on supporting the countries of "social orientation".

            Which forgiven everyone, and most importantly, where are these allies now and whom they are supporting now.
            Quote: Colonel
            ... Question: "where is the money, Zin?" Answer: in the pockets of the current government, eating up the backlog of the USSR and doing NOTHING to ensure progress in areas that determine progressive development: science, education, support for the military-industrial complex, social and national politics, medicine, culture, even housing and communal services and mass sports! Everywhere - one PR and verbiage!

            It’s easiest to sit at a computer and criticize, although I don’t exclude that you use a keyboard for the blind.
            I recommend that you talk with Smirnov (not an admin) with the avatar of Dzerzhinsky, you will find a common language with him. He, too, from those who say the mustache is gone.
            1. Basarev
              Basarev 16 November 2013 19: 06
              0
              Traitors always come back when you get in favor
          2. Evgenij.
            Evgenij. 12 November 2013 18: 01
            +1
            The USSR and NOTHING doing nothing to ensure progress in the areas that determine ongoing development: science, education, support for the military-industrial complex, social and national politics, medicine, culture, even housing and communal services and mass sports! Everywhere - one PR and verbiage!
            Do you
          3. SkiF_RnD
            SkiF_RnD 21 November 2013 15: 40
            0
            Good day hi
            There is only one question for your post? How did you manage to compare the wealth of the USSR with Russia based on a comparison of hydrocarbon production?

            In general, this is not entirely correct. Different economic systems. The Soviet Union, measured from the point of view of capitalism, was a poverty-stricken country (for its, so to speak, scale, and in comparison with the same modern Russia), because to implement its projects it was not at all necessary to spend currency at all. Inside the country, there were completely different economic relations, in fact (if we capitalize all state property, the same military plants, research institutes, etc., construction companies, or rather their equivalent, and other "assets" of the state) the USSR was the richest country, for that to have everything, it is not at all necessary that this "everything" be measured in dollars. From this it turns out that we have become richer than under the Soviet Union, and less work is being done.
  • drop
    drop 12 November 2013 08: 47
    11
    I am concerned about the use of patrol helicopters on these icebreakers. We are the creators of the Radioengineering Flight Control System for aircraft, their navigation and approach and landing. Helicopters are not regularly present on icebreakers, unlike foreign ones. Appeal to the Government does not give decisions. The use of ships of the Northern Fleet in operations on the Novosibirsk Islands showed that without helicopters many problems could not be solved. On warships, our system is applied regularly.
    1. EdwardTich68
      EdwardTich68 12 November 2013 14: 07
      +3
      A helicopter is required on icebreakers, and there is a hangar there as well. In the tourist version 2
      helicopter (one on the site, the other in the hangar (I mean LA)
  • erased
    erased 12 November 2013 08: 52
    +6
    It is necessary to train polar bears, let them play the role of saboteurs. There are fighting dolphins, we will have fighting bears. Lay the mine, break the equipment. And they will eat enemy soldiers and sailors. Nutritious diet.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 12 November 2013 09: 00
      +3
      Quote: erased
      And they will eat enemy soldiers and sailors. Nutritious diet.

      Refer to FIG.
    2. lelikas
      lelikas 12 November 2013 09: 27
      13
      Angry you, one rocket, the second battle bears laughing

      Although to all who climb into our part of the Arctic - we will show -
    3. seller trucks
      seller trucks 12 November 2013 10: 03
      +2
      Quote: erased
      It is necessary to train polar bears, let them play the role of saboteurs.


      And brown:
      1. Igor39
        Igor39 12 November 2013 14: 04
        +3
        And here is a good emblem of the Russian army smile
    4. 31231
      31231 12 November 2013 13: 42
      +1
      And they will eat enemy soldiers and sailors. Nutritious diet.


      Feed the bears with amn bones ?! Yes, fear God!
    5. stroporez
      stroporez 12 November 2013 21: 10
      0
      this - do not eat healthy food ..... little animals do not mind ??? all the same ours .......
  • vjatsergey
    vjatsergey 12 November 2013 08: 54
    +3
    From the eastern beginning of our borders to the western end, draw straight lines to the North Pole and poke the nose of all applicants - these are our borders and the point.
  • Eugeniy_369
    Eugeniy_369 12 November 2013 09: 01
    +6
    It's nice to see so many icebreaking ships near my homeland. good ... But one must be realistic, pay attention to the fact that they were built mainly in the era of the USSR or or in the first time after its collapse (i.e. on that backlog). In those days, ensuring the navigability of the Northern Sea Route was the main task of this squadron. Northern delivery for the military, geologists, industrialists, etc. Now the volume of cargo has decreased, and it seems that such a quantity is excessive, but close glances "from there" suggest that "this is not easy." In light of the current situation in the world (pirates, warming) and the struggle for raw materials and hydrocarbon deposits, it is not at all superfluous to have trump cards in the form of a powerful icebreaker fleet. It is necessary to modernize existing ships, build new ships, balance the fleet in terms of composition and purpose. Yes, it requires a lot of money, but we lose more on theft. You can’t just ..t what the ancestors worked so hard to create.
    Article +.
    1. Gari
      Gari 12 November 2013 10: 02
      +1
      Quote: Eugeniy_369
      But one must be realistic, pay attention that they were built mainly in the era of the USSR or or in the first time after its collapse (i.e., on that groundwork).

      You are right, dear then, the state was USSR and state tasks were solved.
      "The total volume of budget investments in the construction of two serial universal nuclear icebreakers for the period from 2014 to 2020 in prices of the corresponding years is 86 billion 105,43 million rubles. The estimated cost of building the first serial universal icebreaker is 42 billion 002,81 million rubles. the cost of construction of the second serial universal icebreaker - 44 billion 102,62 million rubles. ", -
      42 billion 002,81 million rubles, this seems to be about 1.285 million dollars.
      One Abramovich’s yacht, Eclipse, cost more than $ 300 million, the length of the yacht is 162 meters, $ 1,9 million per meter.
  • ed65b
    ed65b 12 November 2013 09: 17
    +8
    Well, what quietly peacefully did the USSR poke around in the Arctic building icebreakers without noise and dust and set up dear Minesweeper correctly said
    In Russia, icebreakers like mattress-carriers are more aircraft carriers than in the rest of the world in the place taken. This is one of the indicators of state priorities.
    . I’m becoming more and more convinced that the USSR could not deceive anyone and couldn’t, but they looked ahead 100 years ahead. The time has come, and here they are WE, you will not go around, you will not slip through. Try to catch up and gain experience.
    1. polly
      polly 12 November 2013 11: 03
      +7
      So it was the great "huge plans" and they made friends with their heads, and did not rename the state structures with a clever face and fought over time: summer-winter.
  • major071
    major071 12 November 2013 09: 25
    +9
    ster (3)
    It is necessary to train polar bears, let them play the role of saboteurs.

    So they still represent us in the West. Unshaven men in padded jackets, caps with earflaps with a red ribbon, with a Kalashnikov assault rifle on brown bears. Now add on whites.
    And the Russian icebreaking fleet was, is and will be the strongest in the world.
    The United States does not have a Northern Sea Route, and therefore decided that the Russians “will then catch up and overtake”.

    The catch-up with the distillation did not grow in order to catch up with us.
  • Vladimir-35136
    Vladimir-35136 12 November 2013 09: 29
    +2
    [i] It is regrettable to note the fact that over the past two and a half decades, our country has descended lower and lower along the steps of scientific and technological progress. In some areas, progress was initially replaced by stagnation, and then stagnation was completely replaced by outright regression. However, despite years of total underfunding [/i] ... and what is money — the intangible equivalent of people's labor, and their absence, underfunding is the inability or impossibility of organizing labor activity in the right direction .... Therefore, to create something, it is not money that is needed, but people and resources. And money is only a virtual tool for organizing labor. Well, the regression is a consequence of the loss of the goals of social development, new goals will appear, the flywheel of progress will spin.
  • morpogr
    morpogr 12 November 2013 09: 30
    +2
    To develop the Arctic and the nuclear fleet to improve and develop the Northern Sea Route infrastructure and learn how to make money from it so that we can invest in the development of the Russian Arctic again. We must use the unique opportunity that the Russian Arctic gives us. And the last actions of the state inspire hope to lay new icebreakers and restore the military infrastructure of the airdromes , bases, etc. Reconstruction of the ports of the Northern Sea Route. Creation of the Arctic military brigade.
  • Internal combustion engine
    Internal combustion engine 12 November 2013 09: 54
    0
    And why should the Americans spend money on icebreakers and on the development of the Arctic? Sooner or later, all the same, all proceeds from the sale of raw materials from the clutches of the Russian oligarchs flow into the clutches of the American. And even more so, for the Russian people, we do not see these incomes as our ears.
    1. sashka
      sashka 12 November 2013 11: 51
      0
      Quote: ICE
      sooner or later, all revenues from the sale of raw materials from the clutches of Russian oligarchs flow into the clutches of the American.

      It’s logical .. Glory to Pu ..
      1. 31231
        31231 12 November 2013 13: 55
        +3
        It’s logical .. Glory to Pu ..


        Pu is not Glory, he is Vova. wink
    2. 31231
      31231 12 November 2013 13: 54
      0
      Can you give me more details and figures?
  • Megatron
    Megatron 12 November 2013 10: 14
    +1
    Here is another video
  • Vanya Ivanov
    Vanya Ivanov 12 November 2013 10: 41
    0
    the author has incorrect information. "Moscow" and "SPb" have never been in the Arctic latitudes. "Captain Nikolaev" has been providing the Gulf of Finland for three years already.
  • Curt
    Curt 12 November 2013 10: 58
    0
    Given the industry in the West, I believe that they can do it in 1-2 years if they want to rebuild their icebreaker fleet, so we can’t relax the rolls - while there is an advantage, we need to rebuild and develop the Arctic
    1. 31231
      31231 12 November 2013 13: 58
      0
      Why do they need it ?! Do I have berths idle?
      The West has the main rule "the money invested must pay off." Will you find orders for them with this invested money ?!
  • kmike
    kmike 12 November 2013 10: 59
    0
    Especially now, when the West, despite the crisis, shows an unhealthy interest in OUR NORTH, it is necessary to build up the Northern Fleet.
  • sashka
    sashka 12 November 2013 11: 34
    0
    Oh oh All that mg we have time to sell. Our wealth belongs to Israel .. Ordinary Jews. Actually, they have always been by no means other options .. As Ukrainians .. And you still hope for something.
  • lewerlin53rus
    lewerlin53rus 12 November 2013 11: 44
    10
    Some in the west .. rolled their lips into the Russian Arctic in the expectation that "global warming" will make it possible to do without icebreakers. But this warming is a myth from the same opera as the ozone hole, bird flu and SARS. Therefore, the development of the icebreaker fleet is one of the priority tasks of the state.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 12 November 2013 15: 34
      +3
      Quote: lewerlin53rus
      Some in the west .. rolled their lips into the Russian Arctic in the expectation that "global warming" would make it possible to do without icebreakers.


      Those who in the West insist on global warming and the uselessness of icebreakers should look at the map and think about what happens in this case.

      the picture is clickable.
      1. Horst78
        Horst78 12 November 2013 18: 35
        +3
        What good news bully
  • erofich
    erofich 12 November 2013 12: 05
    +4
    An ordinary ship - you can build in a year or two, but not an atomic icebreaker, especially for the Arctic. First of all, knowledge is needed, how to do it, and then technology. As with aircraft carriers, the rest have icebreakers.
  • vuvarovskiy
    vuvarovskiy 12 November 2013 12: 12
    +2
    Thanks to the author of the article! God forbid that our rulers had the wisdom not to break up the icebreaker fleet too! Often I see in the news how our nuclear powered ships go to the pole and ride imported geese for loot, but you have to keep the atomic fleet somehow expensive!
    1. Serg 122
      Serg 122 12 November 2013 14: 59
      +1
      Hardly ruin it! These are living grandmas. If they lose the Arctic now, they will remain with a big nose
  • x.andvlad
    x.andvlad 12 November 2013 12: 16
    0
    Quote: Curt
    while there is an advantage, you need to rebuild and develop the Arctic

    I completely agree. Until it’s too late, it is necessary to develop infrastructure, a fleet and a common permanent presence in the Arctic, primarily the military.
  • Diviz
    Diviz 12 November 2013 12: 37
    +1
    We need scientific discoveries in the Arctic. Waiting for .... or we are encrypted as Arians with Mars.
  • 31231
    31231 12 November 2013 13: 18
    +1
    I think it’s normal with the icebreakers and the situation will continue. All PI deposits are now going north to the coast, plus the shelf. 50 years of Victory took place in March before the Yamal Harasavey. I was still wondering how much foolishness was in him if there were more than 2 meters of ice.
    And the Chinese, if they really carry gas from South Tambey to themselves, then we will have to use our services. In any case, until they make their giant ice ax.
  • Peaceful military
    Peaceful military 12 November 2013 14: 29
    +2
    It is gratifying that not everything is delayed, i.e. so much is left of the USSR that the best pros_teli of the planet could not punch_ in 20 years.
    BUT!
    Icebreakers alone are not enough; we also need a military component. Although, in the news they say that some kind of stirring has begun. Yes, God!
  • Bersaglieri
    Bersaglieri 12 November 2013 14: 50
    +2
    Quote: APES
    Quote: Igor39
    not only icebreakers


    It remains to add that in the Arctic - only our aircraft can fly normally

    Why would you? For many years now, the passenger and cargo boards of heaps of airlines "over the crown of the Earth" have been making the way short (since Russia allowed overflight over its territory)
  • Dejavu
    Dejavu 12 November 2013 16: 07
    0
    Everything was broken in the country except for the icebreakers, and here the BAC will look useful, and even become leaders in the field - beauty. Russian unsinkable.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Technologist
    Technologist 12 November 2013 16: 25
    0
    Quote: dejavu
    Everything was broken in the country except for the icebreakers, and here the BAC will look useful, and even become leaders in the field - beauty. Russian unsinkable.


    They will come in handy for sure, if only in the right direction, otherwise they will build another "stream" with their help and it's good ...
  • The comment was deleted.
  • moremansf
    moremansf 12 November 2013 16: 33
    +4
    On November 5, 2013 at the Baltic Shipyard, the laying of the lead universal nuclear icebreaker of the new generation took place. According to Vyacheslav Ruksha, general director of FSUE Atomflot, with the commissioning of a new icebreaker, the Northern Sea Route will be open for navigation throughout the year. “We are looking forward to this event, since by 2017 we will have only two of the four nuclear-powered ships operating today,” he added.
    The icebreaker LK-60 of the 22220 project will become the largest and most powerful icebreaker in the world. Its length is 173,3 m, width - 34 m, draft on the design waterline - 10,5 m, minimum working draft - 8,55 m. Displacement - 33,54 thousand tons. The icebreaker has a two-reactor power plant with the main source of steam from the new generation RITM-200 reactor plant with a capacity of 175 MW, specially designed for this vessel.
    The technical design of the nuclear-powered icebreaker was developed by the Iceberg Central Design Bureau in 2009. The vessel's double-draft design allows it to be used both in Arctic waters and in the mouths of polar rivers. The icebreaker will operate in the western region of the Arctic: in the Barents, Pechora and Kara seas, as well as in the shallower areas of the Yenisei estuary and the Ob Bay area.
    The contract for the construction of the LC-60 worth 37 billion rubles with the Baltic Shipyard was signed on 20 on August 2012 of the year. The launch of the vessel is scheduled for November 2015 of the year, delivery to the customer - at the end of the 2017 of the year.
    So we still have a problem with icebreakers ... they built more on imports than for themselves, so they played it out. Yes, and the leadership, too, was looking in the wrong direction, for the collapse so far no one has answered, and indeed will answer ...
  • Ivanovich47
    Ivanovich47 12 November 2013 16: 35
    0
    You can’t stop! A year, another overslept and already jump. God intended for Russia to have the most powerful icebreaker fleet in the world.
  • Captain45
    Captain45 12 November 2013 17: 51
    +2
    Quote: Igor39
    After all, not only icebreakers are needed, but also ice-class vessels that will follow icebreakers among huge chunks of crushed ice, no one says how much money and time are needed to build such a fleet.

    For 4 years in Finland, Norilsk Nickel has built 5 ice-class vessels and one tanker for gas condensate, which the plant is successfully operating. This is about time and money. In winter, Taimyr and Vaygach are escorting to Dudinsky port. True, the "Vaygach" was under repair for a year because of the fire, one drunken, stupid person left an unextinguished cigarette butt in the cabin, two died in the fire, but now the icebreaker is out of repair.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • i.xxx-1971
    i.xxx-1971 12 November 2013 19: 24
    +2
    It's outrageous that this fucking Geographer poured a tub of dirt on us again. I wanted to loudly be indignant, but in the picture about 100 icebreakers on the footnote everything is in its place: the Pomors were the first to start walking in the ice. The first icebreaking vessel was the Russian Pilot. Further more. The Finns, Koreans and Martians can build icebreaker-class ships. But the concept of an icebreaking vessel that breaks the ice with its hull and all subsequent ideas, including a nuclear reactor as a propulsion device, belong exclusively to Russian engineering. Western mentality is like a power limiter on an engine. They are really dumb. Almost all breakthrough inventions, as it is now fashionable - innovations, are the birthplace of one sixth of the land. Western and most Eastern people only: they patent, introduce, improve, write in history under their own name. I am sure that the wheel was invented by some Pithecanthropus Vanya, because he was too lazy to carry and he rolled. Much nonsense has been written about the Chinese invention of gunpowder, porcelain, and the Chinese wall. It does not happen that a nation of inventors has slipped over the millennia to the level of banal copying. What did the Chinese invented in the 20th century, besides the SU-27 integrated circuit?
    By the way, this is a vivid example of how Western people, because of their stupidity, have reduced the idea of ​​an atomic propulsion system on ships to absurdity. In the sixties, the Americans, inspired by the successes of Soviet shipbuilding, built an atomic dry cargo ship (I can't remember the name). The benefits are obvious: almost a perpetual motion machine - you can transport goods even around the world, there is no need to spend money on fuels and lubricants. This super ship has rotted off the pier, away from human eyes. Firstly, it was not allowed into any port due to being on board a nuclear reactor, and secondly, the nuclear reactor occupied almost a third of the ship's volume and there was less space for commercial cargo than on ordinary dry cargo ships, and thirdly, the content of such a ship , created on a commercial project, for profit, was, to put it mildly, not profitable, and its capacity was excessive. We flew into the pipe. The highly respected engines of world progress, the Japanese, did exactly the same. We made the same mistake. The comrades did not understand the concept developed in the USSR. Build-built, but why such ships are needed did not understand. And such ships in the USSR were invented and began to be serially built exclusively for operation on the Northern Sea Route. Only such ships are needed there, not in the tropics. And it has always been like this: we invent, they steal and then they think what to do with all this good. Previously, the Soviet magazine for youth "Modelist-Constructor" was studied by a special department of American intelligence. Our children surprised them with their ingenious simplicity of solving the most complex engineering problems.
  • voliador
    voliador 12 November 2013 20: 29
    +1
    Not only icebreakers are needed, but also ships that can protect them. And there are problems with this - the composition of the Navy is rapidly aging.
  • m262
    m262 12 November 2013 20: 48
    0
    Quote: 755962
    United Shipbuilding Corporation buys Finnish shipyard Arktek, which is one of the world leaders in the construction of ice class ships

    Great news, (competitors will have nowhere to build icebreakers wassat wassat ), it would be nice if our fleet would grow with one more trophy: in the Arctic, recently the HOOLIGANS were caught by the "Arctic Sea" (Dutch) am
  • poquello
    poquello 12 November 2013 21: 05
    +3
    With these everything pleases, it is necessary those who break the ice from below more.
  • alone
    alone 12 November 2013 21: 26
    +1
    apparently the hands of the reformers did not reach the icebreakers, since they are in service. lucky icebreakers
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 13 November 2013 09: 36
      +3
      Quote: lonely
      apparently the hands of the reformers did not reach the icebreakers, since they are in service. lucky icebreakers

      This is a special technique that requires "special services" for "special money". Not to mention the special personnel that need to be trained.
      1. Vladimir Petrov
        Vladimir Petrov 7 September 2014 12: 23
        0
        Why didn't we, we got there. In the photo, the VLADIVOSTOK icebreaker is being cut into metal in Bangladesh ...
        Source: http://trinixy.ru/15675-chittagong_chittagong__mesto_gde_razdelyvajut_korabli_80

        _shtuk.html
  • Governor
    Governor 12 November 2013 21: 58
    0
    Great Power Returns!
    Although she did not go anywhere. Only the world has hope for you, Russia!
  • Freelancer7
    Freelancer7 12 November 2013 22: 21
    0
    Super!!! I have a model from the past - the Arctic icebreaker! Power!!! :))