Military Review

300 BMPT-72 would help Assad troops defeat terrorists

116
300 BMPT-72 would help Assad troops defeat terrorists

Support combat vehicle options developed in Nizhny Tagil tanks are of great interest to the armed forces of different countries. The first country to purchase BMPT in Russia was Kazakhstan. The military of this state very highly appreciate this machine.


As Major General of the Kazakh Armed Forces Talgat Zhanzhumenov told in the studio of the BNews.kz portal, "this is a universal tool that allows 2-2,5 infantry combat vehicles or 3-4 BTR to be replaced in their combat potential."




Therefore, it is expected that in the near future the old versions of the main battle tank T-72 at Kazakhstani enterprises will be redone in BMPT. Recently, Kazakhstan Engineering JSC and Uralvagonzavod Research and Production Cooperation OJSC signed a Memorandum of Cooperation.

Given that Kazakhstan has about 1 thousands of seventy-two hundred, it is possible that over time it will be possible to jointly sell BMPT-72 to the countries of the CSTO, as well as abroad.

About what will be the version of the machine based on the T-72, told at the recent Nizhny Tagil exhibition "Russia Arms EXPO-2013". It was here that the premiere of the BMPT-72 tank support fighting vehicle took place.

This version takes into account the experience of creating and using the first version of BMPT. The result was a new car with increased tactical and technical characteristics. The BMPT-72 weighs 44 tons. Armament: two twin automatic caliber small-caliber guns 2А42 with ammunition in 850 shells. There is also a PKTM machine gun paired with guns, equipped with an automatic reloading device. His ammo 2100 cartridges.




In two (unlike the former, protected) launchers, 4 anti-tank guided missiles are deployed. They are able to hit the enemy at a distance of six kilometers.

A modern multi-channel aim-gunner-operator complex is equipped with a thermal imager, which allows detecting enemy tanks at a distance of three and a half kilometers at night.

Panoramic sight of the commander allows him to carry out a circular review and, unlike the first generation BMPT, is also equipped with a thermal imager, which greatly increases the commander’s ability to counter targets at night and in poor visibility conditions.

To enhance security, BMPT is equipped with a modular dynamic protection, which allows you to fend off most of the existing threats, as well as lattice protivokumulyativnye screens. Inside the BMPT is reinforced with special anti-splinter screens. All this, as well as modern fire-fighting equipment, dramatically increases the survival rate of the vehicle and its crew on the battlefield.

If we talk about mobility, then on BMPT-72, depending on the customer's wishes, it is possible to install hp 840 or 1000 engines. Maximum speed on the highway - up to 60 km / h. The machine can overcome water obstacles to a depth of 5 meters. Power reserve up to 700 km.

The machine has an auxiliary diesel generator. It is also equipped with the latest communications.




The most interesting thing is that in addition to the T-72 in BMPT, you can turn almost any tank, both domestic and foreign production. So the Russian representatives offered Peru to convert part of the existing T-55 into combat vehicles of this type.

According to military experts, the BMPT would be very useful to those states that reflect the aggressive attacks of world terrorism. Three hundred BMPTs would help Syrian government forces completely reverse the situation in this military conflict. The Syrians have a lot of outdated tanks that could be successfully converted into such anti-terrorist vehicles.

Recently it also became known that Algeria conducted a BMPT test cycle in order to familiarize and demonstrate the combat and operational capabilities of this vehicle before concluding a contract.

So, undoubtedly, BMPT and BMPT-72 expect success in the international arms market and we, it is very possible that we will soon hear about new contracts concluded.

Originator:
http://www.vestnik-rm.ru/
116 comments
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  1. andru_007
    andru_007 12 November 2013 08: 01
    31
    Break in the machine in Syria - the price would not have been to her !!!
    1. Grenader
      Grenader 12 November 2013 14: 45
      +5
      That’s what they did before.
    2. badger1974
      badger1974 12 November 2013 16: 17
      +8
      and did you read the abbreviation BMPT?, this is a means of supporting tanks but not infantry, the BMPT's tasks are to suppress anti-tank points and infantry (30 and 7.62, GHS), assistance in the fight against tanks (ATGM), in a partially open area , and not in dense buildings, and now tell me, do the opposition have tanks? and where are the fights? in Syria they are like a dead poultice without elite infantry
      1. Geisenberg
        Geisenberg 12 November 2013 18: 58
        +8
        Quote: badger1974
        Now tell me, do the opposition have tanks? and where are the fights? in Syria they are like a dead poultice without elite infantry


        The terrorists have it all. And you thought how they beat government troops out of the cities?
        1. badger1974
          badger1974 12 November 2013 19: 21
          +1
          anti-tank warfare, financial and general religious interest, I think it’s not a secret for you that there is a civil war, a civil war is brother to brother, it’s not a citizen of the 20th year in the Russian Empire, it’s a complete massacre regardless of kinship, it’s an eastern citizen the difference is almost the opposite
        2. Blackgrifon
          Blackgrifon 12 November 2013 19: 27
          +3
          Quote: Geisenberg
          The terrorists have it all. And you thought how they beat government troops out of the cities?


          To be precise, the number of tanks in the NBF in Syria is small. The bulk of the equipment is an armed civilian. And it’s a 30 mm cannon that it’s ant sneakers :)
          1. papik09
            papik09 13 November 2013 06: 47
            +2
            "... ant slippers ..." laughing
            Yes, he’ll add health to the ant, slippers wassat
        3. Andrey Skokovsky
          Andrey Skokovsky 13 November 2013 09: 00
          +4
          Quote: Geisenberg
          Quote: badger1974
          Now tell me, do the opposition have tanks? and where are the fights? in Syria they are like a dead poultice without elite infantry


          The terrorists have it all. And you thought how they beat government troops out of the cities?

          let's take a little look at who you call "terrorists"
          1) troops recruited from the inhabitants of any country, ready to fight
          2) troop training is conducted under the supervision and guidance of us instructors
          3) these troops are armed by NATO countries, mainly the United States
          4) these troops are fighting under the direct leadership of all the same NATO and the United States
          5) These troops operate within the framework of the policy and the solution of the political tasks of the USA
          6) payment of troops goes along the line of the west, the usa and their satellites

          Based on the foregoing, why do you call them terrorists ?????
          it is nothing more than the troops of the us and the west, which now and today are at war for their interests
          Yes, they do not have an official de jure status, before de facto this is exactly so
          something like "foreign legion of states"

          US troops are already fighting in Syria and throughout the East, they just were able to present the case in such a way that they are supposedly some kind of incomprehensible "terrorists"
          it is nothing more than a form of war under nuclear deterrence
          1. mvg
            mvg 28 November 2013 21: 06
            0
            not the United States, but monarchies such as the Saudis, Kuwaitis and Omani ... who do not need Syria as a country supporting Iran
      2. 31231
        31231 12 November 2013 19: 23
        0
        Do you even read the reports from there?
        Or just see reports from the areas of Damascus ?!
      3. Russ69
        Russ69 13 November 2013 01: 13
        +2
        Quote: badger1974
        Assistance in the fight against tanks (ATGM)

        It would be nice, instead of an ATGM, to put that thread of the "Bumblebee" type. For the city, it will be the most ...
        1. Bongo
          Bongo 14 November 2013 13: 52
          +2
          Why are ATGMs with a thermobaric warhead bad?
          1. badger1974
            badger1974 14 November 2013 13: 57
            -2
            "vacuums" along the way are prohibited, just like binary charges
            1. Bongo
              Bongo 14 November 2013 14: 01
              +2
              With what fright? What charge does "Bumblebee" or "Tanin" have? In aviation, ODABs are highly respected. Even the 80-mm NURS S-8 is equipped with such a warhead.
            2. mvg
              mvg 28 November 2013 21: 09
              +2
              are not prohibited, we have "Buratino", thermo bombs are constantly tested by many countries, but it's expensive, and to set fire to their own cities, then the people will definitely go for terror ... such things do not distinguish between right and wrong
      4. Andrey Skokovsky
        Andrey Skokovsky 13 November 2013 08: 43
        +1
        Quote: badger1974
        and did you read the abbreviation BMPT?, this is a means of supporting tanks but not infantry, the BMPT's tasks are to suppress anti-tank points and infantry (30 and 7.62, GHS), assistance in the fight against tanks (ATGM), in a partially open area , and not in dense buildings, and now tell me, do the opposition have tanks? and where are the fights? in Syria they are like a dead poultice without elite infantry

        Well, why is it so categorical that there is also a lot to read on the fence,
        a developer can guess and invent anything
        only real combat use and daily operation will dot the issues and indicate ways of further modernization
        and now why wave your hands
      5. Yars
        Yars 13 November 2013 15: 13
        -1
        Are you sure that the terrorists have no tanks in Syria? BMPT is much more effective in urban battles than tanks! Read to begin with the availability of weapons available on board this unique machine!
        1. rrrd
          rrrd 13 November 2013 22: 45
          0
          Trained foot soldiers are much more effective and this is just support
      6. Firstvanguard
        Firstvanguard 13 November 2013 18: 26
        +1
        BMPT's mission is to suppress anti-tank points and infantry

        Exactly the tasks for which the Syrians use tanks and infantry fighting vehicles, which this machine should support in urban battles. In an open field, the tank is not particularly required to be maintained wink
      7. rrrd
        rrrd 13 November 2013 22: 32
        0
        Totally agree!
    3. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 12 November 2013 18: 57
      +4
      Three hundred BMPTs would help Syrian government forces completely reverse the situation in this military conflict.


      And the bearded in their blogs now write something like: Three hundred tomogawks would help us topple the hated regime.

      Everything is definitely correctly said, but there is no way, so just take and deliver 300 units of heavy equipment. I think in response 314ndos immediately put the bearded Abrams or Merkava ... or, dumb me, Tomahawks ...
      1. badger1974
        badger1974 12 November 2013 19: 23
        -5
        oh come on, tanks and pahehas were not made at Syria's factories, delivery is possible, but why ... it is asked if there are no patriots
        1. e3tozy
          e3tozy 12 November 2013 19: 48
          +7
          Summary look. Look at the operations in Alepo, Barz, Damascus. During the week, up to four thousand militants were destroyed in these areas, more than a thousand were taken prisoner. There was always enough patriotism there, and combat experience was accumulated, plus 30 thousand Hezbola, several tens of thousands of Shiites from Iran and Iraq. Take an interest.
          1. alone
            alone 13 November 2013 00: 06
            +2
            Quote: e3tozy
            Summary look. Look at the operations in Alepo, Barz, Damascus. During the week, up to four thousand militants were destroyed in these areas, more than a thousand were taken prisoner. There was always enough patriotism there, and combat experience was accumulated, plus 30 thousand Hezbola, several tens of thousands of Shiites from Iran and Iraq. Take an interest.


            judging by the reports that the war has been going on all the time, the Syrian forces have already destroyed Polsiria, 40% of Saudi Arabia and all the Sunnis of Iraq. Do you really not understand that, besides the clashes, there is also an information war.
          2. badger1974
            badger1974 14 November 2013 14: 00
            -2
            what then tread on the spot. when is victory after victory already? I have not tried to analyze that someone is lying carelessly?
        2. Geisenberg
          Geisenberg 13 November 2013 01: 39
          +1
          Quote: badger1974
          oh come on, tanks and pahehas were not made at Syria's factories, delivery is possible, but why ... it is asked if there are no patriots


          With your flag it will be ... With my flag I would very much like to put ...

          But there are patriots in Syria, the whole country is practically, with the exception of those who breed sacred fleas in their beards.
    4. alone
      alone 13 November 2013 00: 03
      +1
      300 BMPT-72 would help Assad troops defeat terrorists


      5000 tanks T-72, T-62 and T-55 + about 9-10 thousand different types of armored vehicles didn’t help Assad, but 300 BMP-72 help. And you didn’t think about the fact that these machines can fall into the hands of militants ? After all, this is not uncommon
    5. papik09
      papik09 13 November 2013 06: 44
      0
      And, preferably, would be quick ... fellow
    6. mvg
      mvg 28 November 2013 21: 02
      0
      and if you fail? Khan's orders!
  2. Nayhas
    Nayhas 12 November 2013 08: 07
    +5
    Three hundred BMPTs would help Syrian government forces completely reverse the situation in this military conflict.

    Very unfounded. The Syrians would throw them like tanks without infantry cover into the quarters captured by the enemy with the same result. Assad’s trouble is not a lack of equipment, but a lack of competent commanders and stable infantry.
    1. PROXOR
      PROXOR 12 November 2013 09: 30
      19
      Quote: Nayhas
      Very unfounded. The Syrians would throw them like tanks without infantry cover into the quarters captured by the enemy with the same result. Assad’s trouble is not a lack of equipment, but a lack of competent commanders and stable infantry.

      I strongly disagree with you. The tactics of the use of tanks by the Syrians for 3 years has changed drastically. The Syrians faced the same problems of using tanks in urban battles as our army for two companies in Chechnya. Now the Syrians have relied on mobile infantry and weapons groups that can be mounted on light pickups. Tanks are now mainly used to destroy enemy fortified positions from long distances.
      1. smersh70
        smersh70 12 November 2013 12: 20
        0
        Quote: PROXOR
        Syrians faced the same problems of using tanks in urban battles

        how many would not use the best technique. all the same will go to bearded men ...
        1. vladkavkaz
          vladkavkaz 12 November 2013 19: 21
          0
          smersh70 (
          Absolutely not the fact that this equipment is captured from government troops.
          Tanks on video, old versions of which they just didn’t send to, delivered
          And it is absolutely certain that, including heavy equipment, was supplied by the Turks for illegal armed groups in Syria.
        2. 31231
          31231 12 November 2013 19: 28
          +4
          Then I'll ask you a question. Kars did not answer then. Will you throw a link to the same half-heels hung tightly with "contact" and with the same camouflage on the side of the ATS? And then I don't watch how many videos with ATS tanks, there is not enough contact for seventy-two to replace the triggered boxes.
          1. mvg
            mvg 28 November 2013 21: 19
            0
            I didn’t have time to read, I wrote my own ... they said almost the same thing (
        3. mvg
          mvg 28 November 2013 21: 16
          0
          these are 55 matches that have been modernized, and as the channels show, the elite is fighting for the government, such as the 2nd armored army, it is completely on 72 .. obviously showing off somewhere, they picked it up somewhere, there are 10 thousand of them, and the Saudis modernized ( rather Jordan, she can). There is an information war ... everyone looks almost new, only from the factory, even DZ is not battered
      2. Nayhas
        Nayhas 12 November 2013 15: 45
        +1
        Quote: PROXOR
        Now the Syrians have relied on mobile infantry and weapons groups that can be mounted on light pickups. Tanks are now mainly used to destroy enemy fortified positions from long distances.

        Not too much for three years? How long has it arrived? Or maybe the guys from Hezbollah will be more savvy?
    2. the47th
      the47th 12 November 2013 10: 41
      13
      You can watch videos of the fighting of the Syrian troops on YouTube. In my opinion, the tactics are very competent, tanks cover BMPs, BMPs land troops, and troops destroy militants. At least this video:
      1. Hudo
        Hudo 12 November 2013 14: 15
        0
        Quote: the47th
        You can watch videos of the fighting of the Syrian troops on YouTube. In my opinion, the tactics are very competent, tanks cover BMPs, BMPs land troops, and troops destroy militants. At least this video:


        Painfully, these videos are similar to the staged video. In the video you posted, the Brownian movement rather resembles the traffic of various vehicles in the center of the eastern city at rush hour of the h.f. "Diamond Hand", in the very place where S. Gorbunkov and Gesha Kozlodoev shout in turn: "Shyurt beat! " Civilians roll out as they like (apparently not warned), and the operator (as always) took a surprisingly advantageous position for filming.
        1. Somad
          Somad 12 November 2013 23: 25
          +1
          Actually, this reportage is from a series of reports about the battles of one unit (mobile group) to liberate the city of Jobar from militants. So if you look at all the episodes, you will see that this Brownian movement is in fact carefully thought-out actions of the infantry, supported by tanks, to dislodge militants from fortified positions in an urban environment. And believe me - in this "staged video" the corpses of infantrymen and tankers are real ...
        2. the47th
          the47th 13 November 2013 11: 00
          0
          I do not argue, they are similar. But why arrange such a show for a small Abkhaz television company ?!
      2. Nayhas
        Nayhas 12 November 2013 17: 35
        +1
        Quote: the47th
        In my opinion, the tactics are very competent, tanks cover BMPs, BMPs land troops, and troops destroy militants. At least this video

        Well against poorly armed militants, yes. And since the lack of engineering support makes such movements very risky, it’s enough to set a few tens of minutes on the path of moving the equipment with a multiplicity device and fun trips will come to an end ... For example, these:

      3. Geisenberg
        Geisenberg 12 November 2013 19: 01
        +2
        Quote: the47th
        You can watch videos of the fighting of the Syrian troops on YouTube. In my opinion, the tactics are very competent, tanks cover BMPs, BMPs land troops, and troops destroy militants. At least this video:


        Herringbone ... has been used since the times of the great Patriotic war. So far, nothing has been invented more effective.
      4. alone
        alone 12 November 2013 23: 55
        +1
        Well, where are the killed militants? look 03.42. two bmp cover another part of the street.
        and the video is in that part. what do you think, if there is shooting there may be militants, how did the video group of Marat Musin get there? Knowing the militants firsthand, they would have taken them hostage long ago. And if they weren’t there , then why are these bmp needed there. Look at the minibus, as if there wasn’t an operation there, but some sort of passage yard. All this proves that the shooting is indicative, and there is no operation in real life !!
    3. avt
      avt 12 November 2013 10: 51
      +4
      Quote: Nayhas
      Very unfounded

      No, this is a direct continuation of "Operation Y", 300 BMPT-72 would have helped Assad's troops defeat the terrorists, "This is not serious! How much do you want? 330! Everyone! "Another commercial in search of a place to use this unit. We have already discussed and do not want to repeat ourselves, all the same, the supporters of this unit love it almost on a religious level.
    4. Pimply
      Pimply 12 November 2013 11: 31
      -2
      Quote: Nayhas
      Very unfounded. The Syrians would throw them like tanks without infantry cover into the quarters captured by the enemy with the same result. The trouble of Assad is not a lack of equipment, but the lack of competent commanders and stable infantry

      The trouble with the Syrians is that they have a civil war on roughly equal terms.
      1. ed65b
        ed65b 12 November 2013 11: 59
        +9
        Quote: Pimply
        The trouble with the Syrians is that they have a civil war on roughly equal terms.

        stop helping terrorists and conditions will change.
        1. ruslan207
          ruslan207 12 November 2013 22: 05
          +2
          You might think that Prime Minister Pupyrych depends on you a lot, for example, there is no Russian policy, so nothing depends on Pupyrych
      2. Blackgrifon
        Blackgrifon 12 November 2013 19: 30
        +1
        Quote: Pimply
        The trouble with the Syrians is that they have a civil war on roughly equal terms.


        You don’t understand what - judging by the map: one third of the country is under the control of the Kurds, one third is of government forces, and a third is under various illegal armed groups.
    5. Geisenberg
      Geisenberg 13 November 2013 01: 43
      +2
      Quote: Nayhas
      Three hundred BMPTs would help Syrian government forces completely reverse the situation in this military conflict.

      Very unfounded. The Syrians would throw them like tanks without infantry cover into the quarters captured by the enemy with the same result. Assad’s trouble is not a lack of equipment, but a lack of competent commanders and stable infantry.


      This is not a tank with 39 shots, it is a sea of ​​fire and the caliber is just what you need. 4 things rolled around the block and killed all the dishes in the kitchen of the bearded. Then where is the evidence that the Syrians are stupidly throwing tanks under fire?
  3. Strashila
    Strashila 12 November 2013 08: 16
    14
    It is naive ... the fighting in Syria mostly takes place in settlements, in such circumstances, the advantage of armored vehicles is minimized. BMPT in the form that the article is presented in those conditions is simply about nothing, they are more likely for an open field, and the combat module open to all winds is simply ridiculous, it is posed a threat to both RPG-7 and simple small arms, given the distance of the battle ... pistol, fragments of buildings. Syria most likely needs modernized equipment as a result of which it should obtain the maximum possible elevation angle of the gun, to destroy buildings and fortifications, a 30 mm bullet will not work here, 100 mm itself, it is possible to use old T-55s here. Installing active-dynamic protection on equipment, optical instruments with a large vertical angle. EW tools for detecting and suppressing communications equipment, instruments for detecting the optics of snipers and observers. Communications equipment protected for wiretapping. Perhaps the use of UAVs for reconnaissance and adjustment of artillery fire.
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas 12 November 2013 08: 25
      +4
      Quote: Strashila
      Installation of active dynamic protection on equipment

      That's right, but active defense in an urban setting is harmful. Such equipment in the city should operate in contact with the infantry, and undermining the element of active defense in addition to enemy ammunition can harm its infantry.
      1. PROXOR
        PROXOR 12 November 2013 09: 32
        +4
        Quote: Nayhas
        That's right, but active defense in an urban setting is harmful. Such equipment in the city should operate in contact with the infantry, and undermining the element of active defense in addition to enemy ammunition can harm its infantry.

        Ordinary trellised screens I will eat half the power of the cumulative stream and not harm the infantry units.
    2. mark1
      mark1 12 November 2013 08: 27
      12
      Quote: Strashila
      here you can use the old T-55

      And pair the ISU-152 with a "fashionable" anti-cumulative body kit and a remote module on the roof. That will break through the walls ...
      1. sscha
        sscha 12 November 2013 09: 00
        +4
        Humor is a valuable thing !!! good hi
    3. Evgeny_Lev
      Evgeny_Lev 12 November 2013 10: 01
      +3
      57 mm
      100 is not fast.

      And so, the buildings can be dismantled in bricks.


      I do not agree about the "field".
    4. smersh70
      smersh70 12 November 2013 12: 24
      +2
      Quote: Strashila
      In Syria, more likely need equipment that has undergone modernization

      how many do not say, halva. halva .. and in your mouth it will not become sweeter .....

      huge warehouses, the second largest captured in the colossus .. only 4000 Competitions .. I can put a video .. the head of the warehouse with the officers dumped .. leaving the soldier to the mercy of fate ..... what are you .......
      1. Nayhas
        Nayhas 12 November 2013 15: 44
        +1
        Quote: smersh70
        how many do not say, halva. halva .. and in your mouth it will not become sweeter ...

        This is on the topic of who supplies the rebels ...
        1. smersh70
          smersh70 12 November 2013 18: 02
          -1
          Quote: Nayhas
          This is on the topic of who supplies the rebels ...

          only Comrade Assad supplies ... I put it out and can still put it out ... how many weapons the FSAD has and everything almost falls into the hands of ... bearded man ... tons are taken from Makhin's warehouses. even there aren’t enough trucks ...
          1. 31231
            31231 12 November 2013 20: 00
            +1
            Well, lay out that again.
            1. smersh70
              smersh70 13 November 2013 02: 39
              +1
              Quote: 31231
              Well, lay out that again.

        2. smersh70
          smersh70 13 November 2013 02: 42
          +1
          Quote: Nayhas
          This is on the topic of who supplies the rebels ...
      2. 31231
        31231 12 November 2013 19: 45
        +2
        4000 contests in one place ?! ATS for all the time of existence, at least so much was delivered ?!
        Even if you take just rockets, not launchers, do you yourself believe in these numbers?
        And according to the news, the rebels did not capture the entire warehouse, but 3-4 rooms.
        1. smersh70
          smersh70 13 November 2013 02: 36
          0
          Quote: 31231
          And according to the news, the rebels did not capture the entire warehouse, but 3-4 rooms.

          Well, look. Especially after 4.30 ... it does not look like 3 interferences)))))
  4. saag
    saag 12 November 2013 08: 18
    +2
    Yes, it’s an extraordinary task to come up with a car for battle in the city, the most important thing is protection against RPGs
    1. Strashila
      Strashila 12 November 2013 08: 24
      +2
      Yes, not just protection from RPGs, the most difficult thing is that it should be from all sides and from the upper sphere.
  5. And Us Rat
    And Us Rat 12 November 2013 08: 19
    +4
    Hellish machine bully which year have they written about her, when will they start mass production?
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 12 November 2013 10: 54
      +8
      Quote: And Us Rat
      when to start mass production?

      Our generals still can’t understand why the hell is it. request
      1. Skipper
        Skipper 12 November 2013 15: 25
        +3
        Yes, who knows, the main thing is that "has no analogues" laughing
        They updated the pancake, made the cart more funnier. Two guns (in fact, only one can shoot, in turn, joint shooting is not provided) and 4 missiles.
        It was impossible to put on the ribbon tape with alternating shots ?! One gun would be enough then.
        For urban combat, automatic grenade launchers, a barrel lift of at least 70 degrees, and volumetric explosion ammunition for working on buildings (an analogue of a bumblebee) plus several anti-tank missiles for self-defense and covering the tank from its colleagues are needed. hi
        1. Yarik
          Yarik 12 November 2013 20: 30
          +1
          But what kind of a piece of iron is futuristic. It is necessary to appreciate it. This is not an armored car in "Aliens".
        2. Alexander Romanov
          Alexander Romanov 13 November 2013 04: 26
          +1
          Quote: Skipper
          For urban combat need automatic grenade launchers

          But isn’t there a grenade launcher?
          1. cth; fyn
            cth; fyn 13 November 2013 08: 44
            0
            now there are no AGSs.
  6. And Us Rat
    And Us Rat 12 November 2013 08: 24
    -1
    Quote: Nayhas
    Three hundred BMPTs would help Syrian government forces completely reverse the situation in this military conflict.

    Very unfounded. The Syrians would throw them like tanks without infantry cover into the quarters captured by the enemy with the same result. Assad’s trouble is not a lack of equipment, but a lack of competent commanders and stable infantry.


    That's right, you give them at least a fighting starship of the 25 century - they will kill. It is necessary to study the technique, and not only the materiel, but also the correct tactics of application.
  7. andru_007
    andru_007 12 November 2013 08: 29
    +5
    Quote: Nayhas
    Very unfounded. The Syrians would throw them like tanks without infantry cover into the quarters captured by the enemy with the same result. The trouble of Assad is not a lack of equipment, but the lack of competent commanders and stable infantry

    I do not agree with the statement, I saw a video of street battles, in my opinion competent guys and this is not surprising because they have combat experience like a fool wrappers! Judging by the frames of seventy-two, they feel pretty confident there, but the BMP-2 is hard to clean up during quarters. What Syria still clearly lacks is a heavy tank-based infantry fighting vehicle!
    1. Nayhas
      Nayhas 12 November 2013 17: 41
      +1
      Quote: andru_007
      Judging by the frames of seventy-two, they feel pretty confident there, but the BMP-2 is hard to clean up during quarters.

      Because the militants of the SSA and jihadists do not have serious anti-tank weapons, this refers to anti-tank mines and RPGs with a tandem B / H. Where they are, we see the result of their work ...
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. KDM-219
    KDM-219 12 November 2013 08: 37
    +2
    Sorry, that’s not the topic, but why there’s no news that the Russian Navy will deploy a base in Egypt and Egypt will lobby for Russia's interests in North Africa and the Middle East .. Campaign admins are not willing to talk about this and are hiding this fact in every possible way.
    1. faraon
      faraon 12 November 2013 10: 45
      0
      I will not argue about the base in Alexandria, but there are such tales, but the fact that the Suez Canal will be guarded by the Israeli security company is for sure
      In the middle of last week, Al-Jazeera TV set off an information bomb. The sensation rocked the Arab news space and then spread throughout the world.

      Citing a British civil society organization called the Arab Organization for Human Rights, Al Jazeera said the new Egyptian authorities have granted the international security firm Seagull Maritime Security the right to secure cruise and cargo ships passing through the Suez Canal. The piquancy of the situation lies in the fact that this company is Israeli. Moreover, its leaders and organizers are retired commanders of the Israeli Navy, intelligence and special forces.
      1. 31231
        31231 12 November 2013 20: 03
        0
        Al-Jazeera, and even a cueva cloud of links, et doo, et news.
  10. andru_007
    andru_007 12 November 2013 09: 08
    +6
    Quote: mark1
    And pair the ISU-152 with a "fashionable" anti-cumulative body kit and a remote module on the roof. That will break through the walls ...

    Great idea, In WWII, ISU-152 fired at home! A city tank with a gun in 152 mm with a twin in 30mm, powerful protection (even to the detriment of speed is not scary), bulldozer equipment and a remote module on the roof - a great concept!
    1. builder
      builder 12 November 2013 23: 30
      0
      Also not a bad option if
      cumulative body kit and a remote module on the roof

  11. Professor
    Professor 12 November 2013 09: 19
    +9
    Less to the author from me. There is no miracle weapon that defeats terrorists. To defeat them, a set of measures is needed, including undercover activity, the carrot and stick method, control of financial flows, and most importantly, where the local population supports terrorists it is impossible to defeat them: by day, a plowman, by night, majahid.
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 12 November 2013 09: 20
      -1
      And carpet bombing and a concentration camp like Buchenwald?
      1. Professor
        Professor 12 November 2013 09: 26
        +3
        Quote: The same Lech
        And carpet bombing and a concentration camp like Buchenwald?

        Is there anything clever to articulate?
        1. Same lech
          Same lech 12 November 2013 09: 28
          +8
          So much to me against ESTEIN. smile
          But seriously, your arguments also do not hold water.
          Remember the activities of FOREST BROTHERS in the Baltic States or the OUN - UPA in Ukraine was crushed despite the support of their local population.
          1. Professor
            Professor 12 November 2013 10: 34
            0
            Quote: The same LYOKHA
            But seriously, your arguments also do not hold water.

            My arguments are based on many years of experience in combating the terrorism of Israel in which others come to study.

            Quote: The same LYOKHA
            Remember the activities of FOREST BROTHERS in the Baltic States or the OUN - UPA in Ukraine was crushed despite the support of their local population.

            I remembered how the population of these regions suddenly began to explore the regions of the far north of the vast country. You remember Afghanistan or the North Caucasus. How many years have they been fighting terrorists there?
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 12 November 2013 10: 38
              +4
              Quote: Professor
              You remember Afghanistan or the North Caucasus. How many years have they been fighting terrorists there?

              Yes, less than you and yours.
              1. Professor
                Professor 12 November 2013 10: 50
                -5
                Quote: Spade
                Yes, less than you and yours.

                Have you already written about Soviet newspapers? We dealt with ours a long time ago, there was a problem with strangers, but there has been silence there too. And if we take into account the extent to which these "civilians" are financed, then this is an unprecedented achievement. In any case, up to a third; her intifada is not far off, but that's a completely different story.

                Quote: The same LYOKHA
                I carefully monitor the fight against terrorism in your country, I see a lot of useful and interesting for our country.

                Russian security officials do not think so, and they regularly train here. I remember Russia was very critical of the practice of "targeted liquidations", but now it uses it itself.

                Quote: The same LYOKHA
                RUSSIA has a great experience of armed struggle in the NORTH Caucasus and the fact that the KREMLIN leadership cannot properly apply it is a disaster and a big problem for RUSSIA.

                The fact remains that for almost 20 years now Russia has been "successfully" fighting terrorism there. Let's go back to the article. There is no such wunderwafe capable of defeating terror.
              2. Pimply
                Pimply 12 November 2013 11: 35
                -1
                Quote: Spade
                Yes, less than you and yours.

                Oh, Lopatov. Where did Lermontov go to war?
                1. Vasek
                  Vasek 26 November 2013 04: 23
                  0
                  Oh, Pupyrych?
                  And Nebuchadnezzar 2 whom he scattered around the world?
                  Shovels about technology folding verbally, but about the History you try with me! (I consider anti-Semitism for sin, so you cannot blame it).
            2. Same lech
              Same lech 12 November 2013 10: 38
              +2
              I carefully monitor the fight against terrorism in your country, I see a lot of useful and interesting for our country.
              As for AFGHANISTAN, THIS IS A WONDERLAND GOING IN KISHLAK AND THERE WAS DISAPPEARED.
              RUSSIA has a great experience of armed struggle in the NORTH Caucasus and the fact that the KREMLIN leadership cannot properly apply it is a disaster and a big problem for RUSSIA.
            3. badger1974
              badger1974 12 November 2013 15: 15
              +3
              My arguments are based on many years of experience in combating the terrorism of Israel in which others come to study.
              about experience, no doubt. but in the light of the last 10 years, there has been a clear decline in the success of anti-terrorist activities in Israel, against the backdrop of the bright initiative of the last century, now there are some victorious reports, and the reality is clearly the opposite, I think this is due to several reasons
              1. Professor
                Professor 12 November 2013 18: 52
                +1
                Quote: badger1974
                but in the light of the last 10 years, there has been a clear decline in the success of anti-terrorist activities in Israel, against the backdrop of the bright initiative of the last century, now there are some victorious reports, and the reality is clearly the opposite, I think this is due to several reasons

                Quite the opposite. The peak of terror was in the late 90s, early 2000s (due to a number of reasons, for the most part "Israel allowed"), now there are no fewer terrorist attacks, but fortunately there are few terrorist attacks themselves.
                1. badger1974
                  badger1974 12 November 2013 19: 32
                  0
                  over the past decade, about 800 people have died, compared to the early decades, this is armageddon integral. strange statistics, very strange, and a noticeable decrease in the level of combined arms operations,
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 12 November 2013 20: 54
                    -2
                    Quote: badger1974
                    strange statistics, very strange, and a noticeable decrease in the level of combined arms operations,

                    Let us then give yours for years since 1991, and after I will show you "mine".
                    1. badger1974
                      badger1974 12 November 2013 23: 58
                      +2
                      Well, why mine, I examined yours, The following statistics are given according to the National Insurance Institute [11] and the Israeli Foreign Ministry, is this your lie? means evil languages ​​are lying, everything is much worse
                      1. Professor
                        Professor 13 November 2013 10: 09
                        -1
                        Quote: badger1974
                        Well, why mine, I examined yours, The following statistics are given according to the National Insurance Institute [11] and the Israeli Foreign Ministry, is this your lie?

                        Well let it be mine. Let her come here over the years and together we will see what happened to terror in 10 years.
                      2. badger1974
                        badger1974 13 November 2013 20: 36
                        -1
                        type in the wiki —List of terrorist attacks against Israelis and Jews — well, you can sort it out by years, and along the way explain how the DOT cornet died on tracks (supposedly indestructible merkava), and if there were 4 positions, the khan’s column , when you get more complicated, you go into shit, it’s especially interesting when your women’s special forces rotate you in YouTube, it’s really a shame, I don’t know, but even so gray-haired Ariel Sharon probably eschews now-clear strategists
          2. smile
            smile 12 November 2013 20: 08
            +3
            Professor
            The expelled population was very small, please do not need to on this topic .... they themselves crushed their bandits, with appropriate help.
            1. Professor
              Professor 12 November 2013 21: 00
              +1
              Quote: smile
              The expelled population was very few, please do not on this topic ....

              Don’t do it, don’t do it. Amnesty International was not there at the time, and all sorts of human rights defenders were not in the queue of the TV. The archives are still classified ...
              1. smile
                smile 12 November 2013 21: 16
                +1
                Professor
                No, the basic data - about the number of deportees, imprisoned, who died in clashes for a long time no one hides. Secret are only some of the operations of the enkavedeshnikov and military intelligence, and so, read, I do not want to.
                And I remind you that in May 47, the death penalty was abolished here .... and so, relocation is better than a camp. Agree that, for example, several thousand Lithuanians whom other Lithuanians decided to evict, probably when granting the right to choose, would choose eviction rather than a camp.
                1. Professor
                  Professor 12 November 2013 21: 22
                  0
                  Quote: smile
                  No, the basic data - about the number of deportees, imprisoned, who died in clashes for a long time no one hides.

                  Hide and how. Just now, for example, declassified documents on the parade on Red Square in 1941. You might think such a military secret ...
                  1. smile
                    smile 12 November 2013 22: 22
                    +2
                    Professor
                    Well, here you are certainly right :))) A ridiculous example ... and a fair one ... :))) But with regard to the numbers of the deportees and the convicts, not really, the materials remained not only with us, but also in the Baltic States and Ukraine. Our historians, in any case, often voice numbers. There are no discrepancies in Lithuania.
                    I don’t know about Ukraine, but Lithuanians have repeatedly stated that they have all the materials.
                    But they haven’t been published for 20 years - and not only because it turns out that they actively collaborated with the Soviet authorities in the destruction of the bandit underground and knocked on each other, but also because the number of deportees and convicts was ten times less than those already voiced figures by their politicians ... so that we are not the only ones secretive ... :)))
            2. badger1974
              badger1974 13 November 2013 00: 11
              +1
              what Israel (USA) needs to swallow, and what is really dangerous, then Israel (USA) is not giving up, there is no need for illusions, Israel keeps current because of a full US bank, that’s where the capital is, and Ariel Sharon is a hero who went down in history as a powerful strategist, there is no doubt
        2. Strashila
          Strashila 12 November 2013 11: 53
          +3
          There, their tactics were used against them, sabotage units ... and not as prosecutors and human rights activists.
        3. Walker1975
          Walker1975 12 November 2013 19: 52
          +1
          Until what year did the OUN-UPA crush? And this despite what forces the NKVD had at its disposal. Of course, you can walk and cut out all non-Alawites. Long, diligently ... but it is possible ... theoretically. But only then all the Alawites will be cut out by neighboring Muslim countries = West (for genocide)
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 12 November 2013 19: 58
            +3
            Well, they did the same. And the Ukrainians are in place, not killed without exception.

            There is no need to "cut it all out". It is enough just to take control of the border and cut off the supply. Like the OUN and the "brothers"
        4. smile
          smile 12 November 2013 20: 05
          +2
          Same lech
          Vv is fundamentally wrong - the main losses in the confrontation with Bandera Ukrainians suffered. They made the main contribution to the destruction of banderlog. The vast majority did not support Bandera, although they were afraid of them.
          In the Baltics, the same picture. Now they are screaming that everyone was against the occupation, but in reality everything else, a significant part of the fascists, was exhausted along with the Germans. Among those who remained for the Soviet regime was the majority. Detachments of hawks were created, which were reinforced by special groups of the NKVD. There were many Baltic front-line soldiers in the detachments. The local police were quite effective. Although, of course, it was hard. In fact, there was a civil war.
          The result - we crushed the Nazi (later replaced by the Anglo-Saxon) henchmen only because the people did not support them.
          The people there simply chose Soviet power.
  • And Us Rat
    And Us Rat 12 November 2013 09: 21
    0
    Quote: KDM-219
    Sorry, that’s not the topic, but why there’s no news that the Russian Navy will deploy a base in Egypt and Egypt will lobby for Russia's interests in North Africa and the Middle East .. Campaign admins are not willing to talk about this and are hiding this fact in every possible way.


    Because it is written with a pitchfork on water, there will be a base - there will be something to discuss, but for now this is demagogy.
  • And Us Rat
    And Us Rat 12 November 2013 09: 24
    -3
    Quote: andru_007
    Quote: mark1
    And pair the ISU-152 with a "fashionable" anti-cumulative body kit and a remote module on the roof. That will break through the walls ...

    Great idea, In WWII, ISU-152 fired at home! A city tank with a gun in 152 mm with a twin in 30mm, powerful protection (even to the detriment of speed is not scary), bulldozer equipment and a remote module on the roof - a great concept!


    At home, along with the civilian population who is hiding from street fighting, will you smooth out?
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 12 November 2013 10: 10
      +5
      Quote: And Us Rat
      At home, along with the civilian population who is hiding from street fighting, will you smooth out?

      They don’t have their own Ariel Sharon, so they won’t
      1. Pimply
        Pimply 12 November 2013 11: 38
        -1
        Quote: Spade
        They don’t have their own Ariel Sharon, so they won’t

        Sharon was not massacre. What he was really accused of - underestimating the situation. And Lopatov, do you really want to get into this jungle again? With names, dates, etc.?
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 12 November 2013 18: 51
          +3
          Well, what am I talking about? They don’t have A. Sharon, so there’s no one to think that there can be no one to hide in the houses of civilians.
          There are not so many such gifted people in the world who are capable of such "underestimating the situation"
        2. pawel57
          pawel57 12 November 2013 19: 43
          +1
          Sharon, being one of the commanders of the special naz, massacred an entire settlement (no less than 200 killed of both sexes) and personally killed it. "Evgeny Primakov Book Bltzhny Vostok on Stage and Behind the Scenes"
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 12 November 2013 20: 00
            +4
            He didn’t cut anyone out there. He simply blew up the houses along with the civilians who were in them.
  • tchoni
    tchoni 12 November 2013 09: 27
    +9
    Yes, about the serial - stupid is in vain. Judging by the video, they are fighting competently. They are not bmpt, and literate political support is not enough. if they blocked access to the country of mercenaries, left money and left weapons, the problem would be solved by itself. For the Sirishan partisan (and any partisans) live as long as they have someone to feed and protect.
    And as for the BMPT itself - I support the idea of ​​a powerful short-barreled gun with large pointing angles. whatever body like nona, but caliber 153 - what dohtur prescribed. The truth is, I think it is necessary to pair not 30 mm but the AGS + PCT. + The commander something remotely controlled (yes the same unit from the AGS and FCT, although FCT can be dispensed with).
    But what pleased me in the pictures is a good commander’s cupola!
    As for the protection - enough for Syria and the old contact1. only to the largest possible area.
    1. Evgeny_Lev
      Evgeny_Lev 12 November 2013 10: 08
      +5
      How to block mercenaries?

      Put your own border guards around the perimeter? It's better to cover the Saudis and Katortsev with a "vacuum"
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 12 November 2013 10: 16
      +5
      Quote: tchoni
      And as for the BMPT itself - I support the idea of ​​a powerful short-barreled gun with large pointing angles. whatever body like nona, but caliber 153 - what dohtur prescribed.

      What's the point? Why are the elevation angles of a 152 mm projectile high? Excessive it. Here we need much less powerful shells, a smaller caliber, new ammunition-shrapnel, with remote programmable fuses.
      1. tchoni
        tchoni 12 November 2013 15: 42
        +1
        Why caliber 152 large elevation angles? - for shooting at short distances in an urban environment or a canopy - this is exactly what the tank lacks.

        And I don’t know the smaller caliber. in the city, a high-explosive action is important, i.e. the ability to destroy a structure, and not cover it with fragments. Even the cornflower will be too small.

        And BMPT in the form in which it is now, in my subjective opinion, is bullshit after three glasses of alcohol passed through a vein.

        I can’t imagine what tasks she can solve:
        Fighting small tank-dangerous targets? - no, she’s unlikely to be able to work out a tank better only if in a very narrow situation such as a battle in the city, and even then ... my grandmother said in two because there are very few advantages over the tank here - only a large angle of pointing the weapon. the same effect can be achieved by installing a com.tank remotely controlled machine gun. In addition, the solution of this kind of combat mission requires a round-robin review, a target reconnaissance system, and a technical reconnaissance system. Multichannel and multitasking system of detection and destruction of targets.
        Fighting low-flying targets is unlikely. Too thin SLA and intelligence, again, no ... Yes, and weapons for this will not work.
        The fight against secondary goals such as armored personnel carriers, infantry fighting vehicles - yes, it is quite possible, but there are not so many of them on the battlefield. You can spend the shell.

        In my opinion, the optimal BMPT will be a heavy armored personnel carrier armed with several (3-4) normal-caliber machine guns in independent ones. remotely controlled installations and having enough surveillance equipment to provide an all-round view of the landing. And it’s not this crook-worm at all - nedotank-re-bmp.
  • And Us Rat
    And Us Rat 12 November 2013 09: 54
    -2
    Quote: And Us Rat
    Quote: andru_007
    Quote: mark1
    And pair the ISU-152 with a "fashionable" anti-cumulative body kit and a remote module on the roof. That will break through the walls ...

    Great idea, In WWII, ISU-152 fired at home! A city tank with a gun in 152 mm with a twin in 30mm, powerful protection (even to the detriment of speed is not scary), bulldozer equipment and a remote module on the roof - a great concept!


    At home, along with the civilian population who is hiding from street fighting, will you smooth out?


    Minus instead of justifying your position? That's right - bydlyak is not capable of anything other than minus a flag, there isn’t enough intellect to debate, I’ll draw a swastika and that’s all. No.
  • Internal combustion engine
    Internal combustion engine 12 November 2013 10: 11
    0
    "Three hundred BMPTs would help the Syrian government troops completely turn the tide in this military conflict."
    Dreaming is certainly not harmful. But all this is empty, because the Americans and Israelis forbid us to supply modern technology to Syria. And outdated too. Our "independent" presidential majesty cannot disobey their instructions.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 12 November 2013 10: 22
      +4
      I do not think that the Israelis will be against the supply of BMPT. The device, frankly, is not so hot, it does not pose a special threat to them.
      1. cth; fyn
        cth; fyn 13 November 2013 08: 53
        0
        Well, given how much Merkava-4 can withstand, then 4 ATGMs are not enough for her, yes.
  • andru_007
    andru_007 12 November 2013 10: 13
    +6
    Quote: And Us Rat
    At home, along with the civilian population who is hiding from street fighting, will you smooth out?

    judging by the personnel who are arriving, there are no longer civilians in the ruins where the operations take place. And houses can no longer be restored ...
    Quote: And Us Rat
    Minus instead of justifying your position? That's right - bydlyak is not capable of anything other than minus a flag, there isn’t enough intellect to debate, I’ll draw a swastika and that’s all.

    I would ask you not to get personal! Well, a flag is like a flag, a country is like a country, people are like people! what is the problem?
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 12 November 2013 10: 21
      +3
      Quote: andru_007
      judging by the personnel who are arriving, there are no longer civilians in the ruins where the operations take place.

      Is not a fact. Civilians were even in Stalingrad. In Tskhinval, despite the fact that a huge number of civilians left. In Grozny, although the command gave time to exit, and provided humanitarian corridors.
  • andru_007
    andru_007 12 November 2013 10: 22
    +3
    Quote: Spade
    What's the point? Why are the elevation angles of a 152 mm projectile high? Excessive it. Here we need much less powerful shells, a smaller caliber, new ammunition-shrapnel, with remote programmable fuses

    If you load a flamethrower projectile like "Bumblebee" in 152 mm - in my opinion it's beautiful ..
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 12 November 2013 10: 29
      +2
      What's the point? It is necessary to buy a high-rise building - enough "Tulips" on the outskirts. The "daredevil" can do this very effectively.
      But if you need to do business, i.e. maintain infantry - 152 mm ammunition will be redundant.
      Imagine a high-rise building being cleared by infantry. They needed support. Are you going to shoot "suitcases" around the house? Your own infantry as a consumable?
      1. mark1
        mark1 12 November 2013 14: 16
        +4
        Quote: Spade
        Imagine a high-rise building that the infantry cleans

        No, if the infantry has already climbed into the high-rise building, then of course it is not necessary to jam it with suitcases, but before getting into it (or if it was knocked out), I think any infantryman will ask you to shandarahnut (I want to live). Yes, and for educational purposes to apply, I think, the effect will be - it’s one thing to guess that the gift will fly from somewhere out of the outskirts, another when the six-inch vent is looking at you almost point blank. Well, problems with target designation disappear.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 12 November 2013 18: 54
          0
          Quote: mark1
          but before getting into it (or if they got kicked out of it), I think any infantryman will ask you to shandarahnut (I want to live)

          "Before" is how? That way, just in case? Well, there are enough tanks for that.
          1. mvg
            mvg 28 November 2013 21: 52
            0
            "before that" - this is in every suspicious house, as in 44-45, so as not to lay down extra lives, and to warn the civilian population, in a couple of hours, that there will be a cleanup operation .. Would Joseph go there, maybe Assad needs to be even tougher? And he really lacks not tanks, but special forces ... With large snipers and information, it is necessary to block Turkey and the Saudis ... to catch caravans of militants. Instead of spending billions on the war, you need to spend million for information and bribery, amnesty, money, infa .. That's right "professor" grit .. specialists are needed, let the FSB send specialists there, on a "voluntary" basis
  • Cruorvult
    Cruorvult 12 November 2013 10: 24
    +1
    Yes Prof. is right, nothing can be solved with one technique. Any equipment without support is a barrel with suicide bombers, especially BMPT is tortured to join tanks and help them work on infantry, pillboxes and birds for long distances, in the city is a useless thing. Well, to hang all the DZ, and screens, but for example from a termite checker, which is not so difficult and gash nothing at all will help :-D
  • andru_007
    andru_007 12 November 2013 10: 32
    +3
    Quote: Spade
    Is not a fact. Civilians were even in Stalingrad. In Tskhinval, despite the fact that a huge number of civilians left. In Grozny, although the command gave time to exit, and provided humanitarian corridors.

    recourse Then there is only one way out - good reconnaissance and point strikes ... request
    But if you hit - everything is in trash !!! laughing
    Especially the car will be valuable for business trips. In 1956, in Hungary, the ISU-152 was used as a sniper rifle, they say that the local population itself gave out snipers and grenade throwers if there was this product nearby ...
    1. ssergn
      ssergn 12 November 2013 19: 52
      0
      It was so. It was like an order like: to respond to each gun shot with a cannon, it was like in the Czech Republic. Or am I wrong?
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 12 November 2013 20: 02
        +1
        What's the point? There were no such orders.
  • andru_007
    andru_007 12 November 2013 10: 39
    +3
    Quote: Spade
    What's the point? It is necessary to buy a high-rise building - enough "Tulips" on the outskirts. "Daredevil" can do it very effectively

    In a dense building to attach a certain house - I doubt it ...
    Quote: Spade
    But if you need to do business, i.e. maintain infantry - 152 mm ammunition will be redundant.
    Imagine a high-rise building being cleared by infantry. They needed support. Are you going to shoot "suitcases" around the house? Own infantry as a consumable

    to support the infantry Spark 30 mm - I think quite effectively ...
    and the "suitcase" for fortified points is just right, cheap and cheerful ...
    1. uhjpysq1
      uhjpysq1 12 November 2013 12: 28
      +2
      152mm immediately brings down the entrance))) and 30ka in the socket panel makes the holes neat BTshkami. OFZ will be more interesting of course. But it’s better to bring down the whole house along with the defenders at once.))
  • andru_007
    andru_007 12 November 2013 11: 04
    +1
    Quote: the47th
    You can watch videos of the fighting of the Syrian troops on YouTube. In my opinion, the tactics are very competent, tanks cover BMPs, BMPs land troops, and troops destroy militants. Although this video would:

    Well, who said that the guys are not literate ... You can write a textbook on this video!
    Another conclusion, well, a heavy BMP is just necessary!
    Civilians amaze, they go there and are not afraid of anything ...
    1. smersh70
      smersh70 12 November 2013 12: 35
      +2
      Quote: andru_007
      Well, who said that the guys are not literate.

      a competent person will not put tanks and equipment in a clean field .. so that they are shot at just like that ..... (This is already an assad trying to counterattack warehouses, rebels shoot at an assad tank with a competition captured in the warehouse)
  • marshes
    marshes 12 November 2013 11: 19
    +3
    Yesterday, UVZ and KI signed an agreement on the joint modernization of military equipment in Semipalatinsk.
    A year ago, a memorandum of cooperation was signed between UVZ and KI, it said about BMPT and TOS-1. In the spring, I hope to see the fruits of joint work.
  • And Us Rat
    And Us Rat 12 November 2013 11: 41
    +1
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    Quote: And Us Rat
    when to start mass production?

    Our generals still can’t understand why the hell is it. request


    Well, nafig generals, for export - developing countries will buy them a bang, especially those where there are problems with any portability, at least the same Mozambique or Afghanistan, it’s just what the doctor ordered them. The military-industrial complex must be fed, and regularly.
  • Cruorvult
    Cruorvult 12 November 2013 11: 44
    0
    One FIG aircraft are waiting for the armature, on its platform there will be a tank, and bmpt (I feel that in general with another module) and in fact the tos on it will be the same.
  • marshes
    marshes 12 November 2013 11: 53
    0

    Here is a video, the same was found thanks to Alexei Khlopotov.
  • kirgudu
    kirgudu 12 November 2013 11: 56
    +3
    The latest trend of bandits in Syria is to hit optics with snipers. And in such a huge optics as on BMPT - it’s a sin not to shoot. Still, not a very urban machine turned out.
  • Cruorvult
    Cruorvult 12 November 2013 12: 02
    0
    And no one did a city car, a city battle is such a joke, you’ll do a damn thing when it’s adequate.
  • And Us Rat
    And Us Rat 12 November 2013 12: 07
    0
    Quote: the47th
    You can watch videos of the fighting of the Syrian troops on YouTube. In my opinion, the tactics are very competent, tanks cover BMPs, BMPs land troops, and troops destroy militants. At least this video:


    I watched the video. The provision of the army is very deplorable, the equipment simply wrecked in the trash, or there is so little left that they don’t have time to repair it between battles, or they have a complete train ... with spare parts, the soldiers are outfitted in disarray, who was especially killed in the last shots blue civic flashlight stuck to the helmet. It looks like this is the rebels ...
    1. uhjpysq1
      uhjpysq1 12 November 2013 12: 16
      +3
      ) duck they are not in the parade)
    2. iSpoiler
      iSpoiler 12 November 2013 15: 55
      +3
      You were not a fellow in the army ... or you were 30 years ago.!
  • And Us Rat
    And Us Rat 12 November 2013 12: 27
    -1
    Quote: Spade
    I do not think that the Israelis will be against the supply of BMPT. The device, frankly, is not so hot, it does not pose a special threat to them.


    The device is scolding in vain, for certain tasks - a very good device. And it really does not pose a threat to Israel, so I don’t think there will be objections, BUT! The device costs money, and Assad has almost no money left, and they will write off another loan (read at the expense of the Russian tax payer) ... here you already think what is more important, new hospitals, roads, schools, pensions for Russians or weapons for Assad.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 12 November 2013 18: 56
      0
      Quote: And Us Rat
      The device is scolding in vain, for certain tasks - a very good device.

      Well, the generals still cannot invent these tasks.
  • Cruorvult
    Cruorvult 12 November 2013 12: 58
    +1
    Nobody scolds the device, we say that you cannot do business with devices alone without trained people. And on the account of the Russian taxpayer, things in the Middle East in the long run can turn out more abruptly than the salaries of state employees, over in Afghanistan they broke everything that people are doing there now - poppy is growing! Or your neighbors are doing fine, your neighbors are fighting, it’s getting into the cost of additional border protection, it’s not in vain that our neighbors have a base, we help on our borders so that we have rest.
    The delivery ban prevents the delivery of such cars, and it would have been possible to put a free trial around the real combat operations, quite a profit, not 300 pieces of kanencho but a dozen - 2.
  • And Us Rat
    And Us Rat 12 November 2013 13: 14
    +2
    Quote: CruorVult
    Nobody scolds the device, we say that you cannot do business with devices alone without trained people. And on the account of the Russian taxpayer, things in the Middle East in the long run can turn out more abruptly than the salaries of state employees, over in Afghanistan they broke everything that people are doing there now - poppy is growing! Or your neighbors are doing fine, your neighbors are fighting, it’s getting into the cost of additional border protection, it’s not in vain that our neighbors have a base, we help on our borders so that we have rest.
    The delivery ban prevents the delivery of such cars, and it would have been possible to put a free trial around the real combat operations, quite a profit, not 300 pieces of kanencho but a dozen - 2.


    Bans - bullshit, Russia has always put these bans on the device with the device, 10 pieces would have been brought to the noise long ago if they wanted to. But then they don’t want to. Most likely the problem is really that the machine needs to be trained. I mean the tactics of the application, otherwise it will either be killed, or they won’t get any effectiveness from it - embarrassment will come out. And to send their soldiers to run around the car is fraught with political scandals.
  • And Us Rat
    And Us Rat 12 November 2013 13: 16
    +5
    Quote: CruorVult
    And no one did a city car, a city battle is such a joke, you’ll do a damn thing when it’s adequate.


    But you can try wink



    There is a version for urya-patriots that would not grumble laughing

    1. badger1974
      badger1974 13 November 2013 00: 15
      -3
      degenerate roller
  • mithridate
    mithridate 12 November 2013 13: 23
    +1
    it would be nice to test this car in real combat conditions
  • sapran
    sapran 12 November 2013 13: 50
    +1
    what test are you talking about? (I don't believe in "marketing" miracles)
    1. I would be sure that this "pepelats" can be effectively used for a counter-terrorist operation 100% of the BDK delivered to its destination, and either everything in the form of a running model, or something with the reliability of individual systems. (Which in general can undermine the reputation of promising product)
    2. But how will this device be used ?!
    a) like a tank
    b) BRDM Toko caterpillar
    BMP Toko without infantry
    The idea of ​​upgrading obsolete chassis is sound, but the implementation is, to put it mildly, a weak principle, I blinded you from what it was! (to love and favor everyone)
  • Cruorvult
    Cruorvult 12 November 2013 13: 56
    0
    Quote: sapran
    But you can try


    Lol, the Israelis fellows of kanencho, succeeded in creating drones and cars like that, but why did you decide to make a war in the city, but we’ll make a jammer out of the electric lighter and take it apart in 10 minutes. This is for reconnaissance and patrol. Our same fellows, AGS set up, and the whole 1 store weighs, it needs to be driven back to reload, developers need to beat for such a face.
  • Cruorvult
    Cruorvult 12 November 2013 14: 05
    0
    Quote: And Us Rat
    Bans - bullshit, Russia has always put these bans on the device with the device, 10 pieces would have been brought to the noise long ago if they wanted to. But then they don’t want to. Most likely the problem is really that the machine needs to be trained. I mean the tactics of the application, otherwise it will either be killed, or they won’t get any effectiveness from it - embarrassment will come out. And to send their soldiers to run around the car is fraught with political scandals.


    so without a bazaar, you need to bring people - to train, then ride, + send your people, analyze, and so on, everything is indisputable, without a clever crew, at least give them lepard, there will be no profit, everyone will be hauled right there.
  • badger1974
    badger1974 12 November 2013 15: 28
    0
    any battles in buildings cannot be resolved without infantry, preferably elite, that is, not in the literal sense, but formations of patriotically inclined strong-willed people, and this is precisely what Syria does not, therefore, the "mopping-ups" are ineffectual, or even completely formal, so no technology will not help there, so when such people are found and grouped, it is possible to form the type of assault groups of Stalingrad, giving them equipment, the first is people, then everything else, and so a tank to support tanks, I do not think that this is power
  • dart_noos
    dart_noos 12 November 2013 16: 15
    0
    I think the Syrians will be more likely to benefit from night vision devices and armed drones.
    1. badger1974
      badger1974 13 November 2013 00: 17
      -1
      absolutely not, you give the coward at least an exoskilet
  • And Us Rat
    And Us Rat 12 November 2013 16: 31
    0
    Quote: CruorVult
    Quote: sapran
    But you can try


    Lol, the Israelis fellows of kanencho, succeeded in creating drones and cars like that, but why did you decide to make a war in the city, but we’ll make a jammer out of the electric lighter and take it apart in 10 minutes. This is for reconnaissance and patrol. Our same fellows, AGS set up, and the whole 1 store weighs, it needs to be driven back to reload, developers need to beat for such a face.


    By and large, yes - this is a patrol device, but it can be driven into the city, although it is more suitable as a field scout or tank / armored vehicles / tank hunter for a big war, you can stick a lot of things on it, it is modular.
    And about the jammer I do not agree. Google at what level the electronics produced in Israel, electronic warfare, radar and communications. Yusovtsy PR their technology, but for their marines for some reason, Israeli systems are buying, an occasion to think.
  • And Us Rat
    And Us Rat 12 November 2013 16: 36
    -1
    Quote: iSpoiler
    You were not a fellow in the army ... or you were 30 years ago.!


    It was 12 years ago, I have combat experience, and I regularly go to training camps ... and in our army, everything is tip-top in this regard lol
  • And Us Rat
    And Us Rat 12 November 2013 16: 52
    -2
    Quote: badger1974
    any battles in buildings cannot be resolved without infantry, preferably elite, that is, not in the literal sense, but formations of patriotically inclined strong-willed people, and this is precisely what Syria does not, therefore, the "mopping-ups" are ineffectual, or even completely formal, so no technology will not help there, so when such people are found and grouped, it is possible to form the type of assault groups of Stalingrad, giving them equipment, the first is people, then everything else, and so a tank to support tanks, I do not think that this is power


    There are options without infantry:

    1. IS-80
      IS-80 12 November 2013 17: 03
      +2
      Quote: And Us Rat
      There are options without infantry:


      You are joking?
  • And Us Rat
    And Us Rat 12 November 2013 17: 01
    -2
    Quote: dart_noos
    I think the Syrians will be more likely to benefit from night vision devices and armed drones.


    They also need to be trained on drones, their commanders have NVD, and each soldier simply has no money for sights or PNV points, and Assad has no desire to invest greenery in yesterday’s peasant, he’s worth ten new soldiers in every sense.
  • tchoni
    tchoni 12 November 2013 17: 59
    +1
    Exactly. What the companions lack is money.

    And about BMPT - a stillborn child.
  • Marek Rozny
    Marek Rozny 12 November 2013 19: 11
    +2
    IMHO, Assad does not need BMPTs (they were created for other combat conditions), but TOSs.
  • pawel57
    pawel57 12 November 2013 20: 01
    +1
    bmpt car still with an emasculated idea. It has all the shortcomings of tanks (deaf, half-blind, noisy, easy to detect, not capable of firing at 3-4 targets at once, limited patency, has weak armament compared to tanks, visibility is even worse than that of a tank, the city is vulnerable to special conditions , forest, mountains, etc., requires infantry support). The infantry is deprived of these shortcomings. Without infantry support in special conditions, the tank and bmpt are a weak fighter. There is a way out. Replacing the bmpt weapon system with a 57mm gun with large elevation angles and a modern complex of control. fire and for air targets, we save the birds. We include tank battalions BMPT, heavy armored personnel carriers (tanks without a tower with a pool.) With infantry and art. large caliber with a small firing range at the base of the tank. We get ready-made tank units capable of conducting combat operations on any terrain.
    1. mvg
      mvg 28 November 2013 22: 03
      0
      in mekawa, all this together
  • DesToeR
    DesToeR 12 November 2013 21: 13
    +2
    I like this BMPT in weapons more - a powerful high-explosive fragmentation shell is not lost
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 12 November 2013 21: 26
      +2
      Nice, but pointless. The same "Vienna" as battalion artillery is much more effective and versatile.
      1. Kars
        Kars 12 November 2013 21: 52
        +1
        Quote: Spade
        The same "Vienna" as battalion artillery is much more effective and versatile.

        A battalion? With its own cardboard armor? What is even the near gap of the 6 dummy OFS? Or the 120 mm minamet?
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 13 November 2013 08: 41
          0
          Yes, with their "cardboard armor" they will still be more effective.
          1. Kars
            Kars 13 November 2013 10: 53
            +1
            Quote: Spade
            but, with their "cardboard armor" will still be more effective

            Only in your imagination. At least it will be fun to try to use Vienna as an assault weapon. At least the military of the Russian Federation may have something like that. The new year in Grozny taught you nothing.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 13 November 2013 11: 19
              0
              I saw how the 2C3 was effectively used as an "assault weapon". Any SPG can fire direct fire. But "Vienna", among other things, has a sufficient set of tools for this. Starting with a laser sight, a range finder coupled with a night sight. Plus "Curtain-1"
      2. Aaron Zawi
        Aaron Zawi 13 November 2013 01: 09
        -1
        Quote: Spade
        Nice, but pointless. The same "Vienna" as battalion artillery is much more effective and versatile.

        Well! Therefore, even in the tank battalion there is a battery of 120mm mortars. Even if they hit from above at the corners of a tank gun that is not accessible, two dozen 120mm mines will collapse the entire facade.
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 13 November 2013 08: 41
          0
          You have it. We do not have.
    2. badger1974
      badger1974 13 November 2013 00: 22
      -1
      from the top level I’m a miracle - I’ll work with RPG-7 at a time, and a professional with SVD will blind almost as fast as the trigger is pulled, stupid
      1. cth; fyn
        cth; fyn 13 November 2013 08: 58
        0
        Provided that there are new recruits in the car, try to get into a tank that does not stand still for a second, but constantly maneuvers.
        I agree about the sights, it’s painfully big for them, it’s clear that the matrix needs to be made bigger to improve the performance, but a bucket-sized sight is just a joke and a joy for the SWR.
  • DesToeR
    DesToeR 12 November 2013 21: 19
    +2
    and instead of two (why only?) 30mm guns installed one, but 37mm. All weapons, except the remote 37mm gun and ammunition, are protected by tower armor.
    1. vladkavkaz
      vladkavkaz 12 November 2013 21: 26
      0
      DesToeR
      Is it a real development or just a fantasy?
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 12 November 2013 21: 32
        +1
        Photoshop. And Ukrainian. "Reincarnation" of Soviet missile tanks. Moreover, it is rather strange - a recoilless gun cannot be installed in such a turret.
        1. Kars
          Kars 12 November 2013 21: 51
          +1
          Quote: Spade
          Moreover, it’s rather strange - a recoilless gun cannot be installed in such a tower.

          And what is visible tower feed? Maybe there is a hatch for the release of gases.
          Quote: Spade
          "Reincarnation" of Soviet missile tanks.

          Reincarnation? And all the Soviet tanks that couldn’t shoot rockets through the barrel? And there’s no problem with scoring BC only with missiles, except for finance.

          And it is quite possible to put an analogue of M81 M551 and Shileily.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 12 November 2013 22: 09
            +2
            Quote: Kars
            And what is visible tower feed? Maybe there is gas discharge hatch.

            wassat


            Quote: Kars
            And all the Soviet tanks that could not shoot rockets through the barrel?

            Translate.

            Quote: Kars
            Reincarnation?

            Reincarnation of the Soviet Ob. 775, in which the BC included not only controlled Rubies, but also uncontrolled Boers. Only there was nothing "recoilless low-ballistic"
            1. Kars
              Kars 12 November 2013 22: 17
              +2
              Quote: Spade

              wassat

              Self portrait?
              Quote: Spade
              And all the Soviet tanks that could not shoot rockets through the barrel?
              Translate.

              You are not aware of the presence of guided missile weapons on Soviet tanks?

              Quote: Spade
              Reincarnation of the Soviet Ob. 775,

              Probably then the T-90 reincarnation of the T-64 since it also has 125 mm gun launcher?
              Quote: Spade
              Only there was nothing "recoilless low-ballistic"
              So it’s not reincarnation?
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 12 November 2013 22: 35
                +2
                Self portrait?

                Portrait of a gifted man who believes that it is possible to install a recoilless gun in a turret with a "gas vent"

                Quote: Kars
                Probably then the T-90 reincarnation of the T-64 since it also has 125 mm gun launcher?

                A T-90 shoots NURSami and can not shoot normal shells? Did not know.


                Quote: Kars
                You are not aware of the presence of guided missile weapons on Soviet tanks?

                I am not aware of the availability of guided missile weapons on All Soviet tanks.


                Quote: Kars
                So it’s not reincarnation?

                Reincarnation.
                1. Kars
                  Kars 12 November 2013 22: 42
                  +1
                  Quote: Spade
                  A T-90 shoots Nurses

                  Well, after the tank biathlon, we can assume that it shoots.

                  Quote: Spade
                  Did not know.

                  Well this is not a discovery of course.
                  Quote: Spade
                  I am not aware of the presence of guided missile weapons on ALL Soviet tanks

                  And you are from such a side.
                  Quote: Spade
                  Reincarnation of the Soviet Ob. 775,

                  Well, take from the year of testing this object.
                  Quote: Spade
                  Reincarnation.

                  On the basis of one gun installation called reincarnation? In addition, there is a rifled, here in theory smoothbore.
                  Very, very strange.
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 12 November 2013 23: 02
                    +1
                    Once again: this "project" is the reincarnation of the Soviet missile tanks Ob.775 and Ob.282, which had a D-126 launcher with a b / c, consisting of guided and unguided rockets as the main armament.
                    At the same time, smooth-bore is rather a step backward, since it either leads to a decrease in the accuracy of NURSs or to a significant increase in their cost due to the need to give them rotation due to inclined nozzles
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 12 November 2013 23: 08
                      +1
                      Quote: Spade
                      Once again: this "project" is a reincarnation with

                      Once again, this project is no one's reincarnation. It only uses a remotely similar art system.
                      Quote: Spade
                      At the same time, smoothbore is rather a step backward, as it leads to a decrease in the accuracy of NURSs,

                      It’s interesting here - for long distances who will shoot Nursami, it’s a weapon for close range and urban battle.
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 12 November 2013 23: 23
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        Once again, this project is no one's reincarnation. It only uses a remotely similar art system.

                        "Distantly similar"? Rather, on the contrary, it is very difficult to find the difference. Well, except for the already mentioned deterioration due to the rejection of rifling.

                        Quote: Kars
                        It’s interesting here - for long distances who will shoot Nursami, it’s a weapon for close range and urban battle.

                        If to make smoothbore. And here is the D-126 NURSami at 9 km. shot.
                      2. Kars
                        Kars 12 November 2013 23: 31
                        +1
                        Quote: Spade
                        "Distantly similar"? Rather, on the contrary, it is very difficult to find the difference.

                        Find the differences between tank guns (modern tanks)

                        Quote: Spade
                        Well, in addition to the already mentioned deterioration due to the rejection of rifling.

                        It’s not a fact that something is getting worse. Especially for Cumulative warheads, but for OFS shells.
                        Quote: Spade
                        And here is D-126 NURSEY at 9 km. shot.

                        WHY? And if it's not a secret with what accuracy? There were even meters in the 200 QUO?
                      3. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 13 November 2013 00: 14
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        Find the differences between tank guns (modern tanks)

                        Just do not find the difference between the Soviet launcher and its Ukrainian Photoshop reincarnation


                        Quote: Kars
                        It’s not a fact that something is getting worse.

                        Fact. Without rotation, the accuracy of NURSs is very low.

                        Quote: Kars
                        Especially for Cumulative warheads

                        ATGM based on the name of the thing is never uncontrollable.

                        Quote: Kars
                        yes for OFS shells.

                        Photoshop project does not provide for the presence of 125-mm shells in the BC


                        Quote: Kars
                        WHY? And if it's not a secret with what accuracy? There were even meters in the 200 QUO?

                        Artillery unguided ammunition has no "KVO". There is a scattering ellipse
                      4. Kars
                        Kars 13 November 2013 00: 29
                        +1
                        Quote: Spade
                        Just do not find the difference between the Soviet launcher and its Ukrainian Photoshop reincarnation

                        Smooth and rifled barrel is no longer a difference? Long? Ejector?))))
                        You just rested like an animal that likes to look at a new gate)))
                        Quote: Spade
                        Fact. Without rotation, the accuracy of NURSs is very low.

                        what about stabilization by plumage?
                        Yes, and you do not know the characteristics of the expected nursa.

                        Quote: Spade
                        ATGM based on the name of the thing is never uncontrollable

                        What are you talking about? That you haven’t heard that rotation badly affects the efficiency of the cumulative warhead?
                        Quote: Spade
                        Photoshop project does not provide for the presence of 125-mm shells in the BC

                        But it provides for the presence of uncontrollable Nurses with the PF BCh.Although you only have such small preservatives left. By the way, the UR has PF

                        And by the way, why did you get that this is Photoshop?
                        Quote: Spade
                        Artillery unguided ammunition has no "KVO". There is a scattering ellipse

                        Cool - you understand what I mean but didn’t deign to answer))

                        So why shoot nuros at 9 km and what accuracy? Will it hit the football field?
                      5. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 13 November 2013 08: 59
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        Smooth and rifled barrel is no longer a difference? Long? Ejector?))))

                        Compared to the main, these are trifles.


                        Quote: Kars
                        what about stabilization by plumage?

                        Stabilizers are unable to compensate for the eccentricity of the thrust vector.


                        Quote: Kars
                        But it provides for the presence of uncontrolled Nurses with the PF warhead.

                        Like D-126

                        Quote: Kars
                        And by the way, why did you get that this is Photoshop?

                        And what, another drawing program?


                        Quote: Kars
                        Cool - you understand what I mean but didn’t deign to answer))

                        Because the question is stupid. The default accuracy is not lower than that of the "Grad", which means that Wb is not more than 40 meters. So it will get to the stadium.
                      6. Kars
                        Kars 13 November 2013 10: 59
                        +1
                        Quote: Spade
                        Compared to the main, these are trifles.

                        So compared to the mortar of the 16 century, too, little things. There’s a trunk and there’s a trunk))))
                        Quote: Spade
                        Stabilizers are unable to compensate for the eccentricity of the thrust vector.

                        Type America discovered - and before you came across this, and nurses with stabilizers still use.
                        Quote: Spade
                        Like D-126
                        So what? Uncontrolled Nurses began to be used first in D-12b?
                        Quote: Spade
                        And what, another drawing program?

                        There are many.
                        Quote: Spade
                        The default accuracy is not lower than that of the "Grad", which means that Wb is not more than 40 meters. So it will get to the stadium.

                        not lower than 40 meters? and what for shoot at 9 km? Grad then compensates for the accuracy with the number and here is one trunk. Consequently, you messed up with your argument again.
                      7. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 13 November 2013 11: 14
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        So compared to the mortar of the 16 century, too, little things. There’s a trunk and there’s a trunk))))

                        When the French screwed the rifled barrel to the mortar, he did not stop being the mortar. So it is here.


                        Quote: Kars
                        Type America discovered - and before you came across this, and nurses with stabilizers still use.

                        The presence of stabilizers does not eliminate the need for stabilization by rotation. All medium and large caliber NURSs are stabilized by rotation. Otherwise, this leads to a drastic decrease in accuracy.


                        Quote: Kars
                        So what? Uncontrolled Nurses began to be used first in D-12b?

                        This is the first and last receiver launcher capable of firing Nurses.

                        Quote: Kars
                        not lower than 40 meters? and what for so shoot at 9 km?

                        As far as I know, all modern tanks can shoot from closed OP.
  • badger1974
    badger1974 14 November 2013 11: 53
    -1
    the Vietnamese conflict put an end to Shillel, they tried to improve it for 10 years, but they could not "sell" it to the US Marine Corps, and if this elite organization disowned the Sheridan with Shilel, then we can safely say that the system is unsuccessful
  • DesToeR
    DesToeR 12 November 2013 22: 01
    0
    By the way, I myself wanted to write about Shileila - the caliber is so good, especially for OFS. And as for the recoilless gun, the Germans drove a self-propelled gun with Marty on the tiger’s chassis in the WWII, the same kind of rocket-propelled guns fired a larger caliber and nothing at all.
    1. Kars
      Kars 12 November 2013 22: 12
      +2
      Quote: DesToeR
      MV on a tiger chassis a self-propelled gun with a martyra drove,

      To be more precise, the rocket / bomber))

      But there is another type of recoillessness - when there were no recoil devices with the classic gun.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 12 November 2013 22: 24
        +1
        Quote: Kars
        But there is another type of recoillessness - when there were no recoil devices with the classic gun.

        This is not a "recoilless weapon", it is a weapon without recoil devices. The difference between these terms is huge.
        1. Kars
          Kars 12 November 2013 22: 35
          +1
          Quote: Spade
          The difference between these terms is huge.

          Huge of course. But there is no rollback.
          Quote: Spade
          This is not a "recoilless weapon"

          Maybe then remember about the dynamoreactive weapon? What would be without confusion?
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 12 November 2013 22: 41
            0
            Quote: Kars
            Huge of course. But there is no rollback.

            Rollback is. It’s just that its energy is not extinguished by recoil, but by the inertia of the self-propelled gun’s body


            Quote: Kars
            Maybe then remember about the dynamoreactive weapon? What would be without confusion?

            Will not work. Free-reactive are also recoilless - i.e. not having a rollback when fired. However, they are not dynamo-reactive.
            1. Kars
              Kars 12 November 2013 22: 49
              +1
              Quote: Spade
              Rollback is. Just his energy

              But it doesn’t flare. The tool is simplified. And such a tool may well fit in this sketch.

              Quote: Spade
              Will not work.

              How does it not get?
              Often recoilless guns and grenade launchers are combined into one category - recoilless systems.
              Classification of recoilless systems:
              Dynamo-reactive systems (with loaded barrel)
              With the expiration of back powder gases
              with widened chamber and nozzle - B-10, B-11, RPG-7
              besoplovye (Ryabushinsky) - "Panzerfaust", RPG-2
              With anti-mass - “recoilless gun of Davis” [1], “Armbrust”, “Panzerfaust-3”
              With a fictitious shell (Kondakova) - GK-45 [2]
              In dynamo-reactive systems, the propellant burns out in the barrel (chamber) and in the combustion process remains in place, as in a conventional gun.
              Free-reactive systems (with an unloaded trunk)
              With a jet charge burning within the launch tube - M72, RPG-18
              With a jet charge dying away after the projectile is launched - “Pantsershrek”, PG-82


              Moreover, what exactly in the picture is exactly YOU do not know)))
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 12 November 2013 23: 08
                +1
                Quote: Kars
                But it doesn’t flare. The tool is simplified. And such a tool may well fit in this sketch.

                It sways. It is necessary to call a spade a spade.



                Quote: Kars
                How does it not get?
                Often recoilless guns and grenade launchers are combined into one category - recoilless systems.
                Classification of recoilless systems:
                Dynamo-reactive systems (with loaded barrel)
                With the expiration of back powder gases
                with widened chamber and nozzle - B-10, B-11, RPG-7
                besoplovye (Ryabushinsky) - "Panzerfaust", RPG-2
                With anti-mass - “recoilless gun of Davis” [1], “Armbrust”, “Panzerfaust-3”
                With a fictitious shell (Kondakova) - GK-45 [2]
                In dynamo-reactive systems, the propellant burns out in the barrel (chamber) and in the combustion process remains in place, as in a conventional gun.
                Free-reactive systems (with an unloaded trunk)
                With a jet charge burning within the launch tube - M72, RPG-18
                With a jet charge dying away after the projectile is launched - “Pantsershrek”, PG-82

                Didn't I write this, but without copy-paste? By the way, if you quote, add a source- "(c) Wikipedia"
                1. Kars
                  Kars 12 November 2013 23: 15
                  +1
                  Quote: Spade
                  It sways. It is necessary to call a spade a spade.

                  The gun is recoilless. But you can call the self-propelled guns retractable)))
                  Quote: Spade
                  And didn’t I write this, only without copy-paste?

                  no, I didn’t write

                  Well, how do you admit that you drove off?
                  Quote: Kars
                  Lopatov
                  Moreover, it’s rather strange - a recoilless gun cannot be installed in such a tower.
                  And what is visible tower feed? Maybe there is a hatch for the release of gases.

                  And that a recoilless gun / launcher cannot be delivered?
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 12 November 2013 23: 47
                    0
                    Quote: Kars
                    The gun is recoilless. But you can call the self-propelled guns retractable)))

                    Tool without recoil devices. It’s so simple ... By the way, the D-126 didn’t have chokes either.

                    Quote: Kars
                    no, I didn’t write

                    You don’t know how to read it. Read it carefully again and compare it with your Wikipedia copy-paste.

                    Quote: Kars
                    And that a recoilless gun / launcher cannot be delivered?

                    The recoilless gun should not be set up like that. The diffuser or rear section should be located outside the tower, and if it is necessary to shoot with large elevation angles, then behind the stern of the machine (so that the engine does not burn with powder gases or shut off when firing.)
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 13 November 2013 00: 36
                      +1
                      Quote: Spade
                      Gun without recoil device

                      And who has no rollback)))
                      Quote: Spade
                      Read it carefully again and compare it with your Wikipedia copy-paste.

                      Why? You have done everything.
                      Quote: Spade
                      The recoilless gun should not be set up like that.

                      yah)))
                      Quote: Spade
                      The diffuser or back cut must be outside the tower

                      And how did you determine that the rear section was not brought out to the rear of the turret? And this is necessary only for dynamoreactive guns.
                      Quote: Spade
                      and if you need to shoot with high elevation angles,
                      There’s an interesting question - but it’s not provided along the way, and there’s no need. There is no shortage and there is no mention of a variable charge. And the reflector will fix everything. At the same time, the option of exhausting gases using a pipe with a radius is interesting.
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 13 November 2013 09: 07
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        And who has no rollback)))

                        There is a force causing a rollback, it is not compensated for in any way, which means that the gun is not recoilless.


                        Quote: Kars
                        Why? You have done everything.

                        No, because you stupid, confirming my words with your copy-paste.


                        Quote: Kars
                        yah)))

                        Well, yes.


                        Quote: Kars
                        And how did you determine that the rear section is not displayed in the stern of the tower?

                        The shape of the tower. The trunnions for its fastening should be placed in its stern.


                        Quote: Kars
                        And this is only necessary for dynamoreactive guns.

                        And free reactive. That is, for all recoilless. Re-read your copy-paste from Wikipedia.


                        Quote: Kars
                        Here is an interesting question - but along the way this is not provided, and there is no need

                        That is, the device will have even lower elevation angles than the tank, and can only shoot at the first floors of buildings? Why is he like that?
                      2. Kars
                        Kars 13 November 2013 10: 50
                        +1
                        Quote: Spade
                        There is a force causing a rollback, it is not compensated for in any way, which means that the gun is not recoilless.

                        But it doesn’t have a rollback. Recognize that not only dynamoreactive can be called a recoilless gun.
                        Quote: Spade
                        No, because you stupid, confirming my words with your copy-paste.
                        Done, do not be shy.
                        Quote: Spade
                        Well, yes.
                        Well, huh?

                        Quote: Spade
                        The shape of the tower. The trunnions for its fastening should be placed in its stern.

                        Should not,
                        Quote: Spade
                        And free reactive. That is, for all recoilless.
                        yes you are a hard case.

                        Quote: Spade
                        That is, the device will have even lower elevation angles than the tank,

                        Why are there no problems within -6 + 13?
                        Quote: Spade
                        and can only shoot at the first floors of buildings? Why is he like that?

                        Like now tanks are firing on the upper floors at close range.
                      3. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 13 November 2013 12: 31
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        But at the same time it does not have a rollback

                        It has. It's just that its energy is not compensated by recoil but by the inertia of the self-propelled gun body. Repeated for the third time

                        Quote: Kars
                        Done, do not be shy.

                        Okay, you have done it. It'll do? Here you have it in pictures, because even what is written on Wikipedia reaches you tightly.



                        Quote: Kars
                        Should not,

                        Here you have the picture again. For maximum ease of perception.


                        Is it clear now? Or is it deaf?
  • Kars
    Kars 12 November 2013 22: 13
    +1
    __________________________
  • Ivan Tarasov
    Ivan Tarasov 12 November 2013 22: 05
    +1
    Efficiency at 30 mm pulkalok is minimal.
    The shooting range is huge, yes, it’s possible you can still work on the areas, but in urban conditions there is a different specificity ...
    Syria needs a completely different weapon.
    A special assault tank with a high-explosive shell (152-160mm smooth-bore gun), or a modern analogue of the "Sturmtigra"; - received target designation - demolished the house - moved on, and so on.
    What is the use of shooting at concrete ruins from 30 mm machine guns when the same sniper is sitting behind three walls ...
    There it is stupid to demolish to zero.