Military Review

The era of separatism: does Scottish independence scare?

87
In the summer and fall of this year, British top officials — the prime minister, foreign minister, interior minister, defense minister, and others — alternately and together frightened and continue to frighten the Scots with terrible, practically unsolvable problems that would fall upon the country after it gained independence. unless, of course, in favor of such citizens vote in the September referendum 2014 year.


The era of separatism: does Scottish independence scare?


For example, in June, British Foreign Secretary William Hague gave a speech in Edinburgh, where he outlined the reasons for preserving Scotland in the United Kingdom. In his opinion, the current alliance is “viable, successful and respected.” However, the Scottish independence fighters called these statements "outrageous."

To preserve the union, the British Cabinet has developed a number of horror stories that are being introduced into the consciousness of the Scottish masses and, in theory, should lead to a drop in the share of those who are going to vote for Scotland’s independence in the year of 2014.

The main horror story is both economic and political: an independent Scotland will have to re-apply for EU membership.

Membership in NATO is also in question.

Questionable and the participation of Scotland in the UN Security Council.

Edinburgh will be denied a British currency - pound sterling.

The UK Postal Service will not serve "independent" Scotland.

Scottish scare even the introduction of huge payments for cellular roaming.

In July, 2013, the British military intimidated Edinburgh by proclaiming the sovereignty of the United Kingdom over the territory of Faslein, where the Trident nuclear submarine base with nuclear missiles is located. An unnamed employee of the London Royal Institute of the Arms of Labor told an ITAR-TASS correspondent: “By proclaiming Faslane as part of the United Kingdom, not Scotland, London uses the experience of Cyprus, where two British bases have the status of overseas territories of Great Britain.”

At the beginning of October, a report from the British Ministry of Defense was published in the press, in which the consequences of separating Scotland are considered in the context of the security of Great Britain. In this document, analysts wrote primarily about projected English problems.

According to military experts, in the event of a positive decision on the issue of independence, the two countries will need a long and difficult transition period in order to divide the assets of the British Ministry of Defense, currently prescribed in Scotland.

This problem is really key. We in Russia can remember the “carve-up” and the difficulties that arose in the “independent” RF after the collapse of the USSR and the appearance of new states on the political map of the world instead of the Soviet republics. The consequences of the separatist split are still “hiccupping”: there is no need to go far for Ukrainian or Central Asian examples.

But the Scottish nationalists are not interested in the future problems of British security and the division of property. Edinburgh generally considers the problem of Faslane to be artificial: an independent Scotland does not need expensive nuclear forces, but only ordinary ones are needed. So says the first minister, Alex Salmond. Moreover, in the event of a victory in a referendum, Salmond is generally going to remove nuclear weapons from an independent territory and prohibit them constitutionally. Scotland will be declared a nuclear-free zone.

Thus, if London tries to keep the base in Faslane behind it, then Edinburgh is going to demand that the submarines and weapons be removed from there. Salmond wants to arrange there its base - the national Navy. Such a confrontation can be an eternal stumbling block. Russia and Ukraine have an analogue for it.

The large expenses of creating a national army to the first minister do not seem exorbitant. Salmond generally represents his homeland exceptionally rich.

At the end of July, the first minister lucidly explained to the Scots, British and the whole world community that when independence was achieved his country would deviate 95% from UK oil and gas reserves - while observing the current practice of equidistance from the middle line (talking about the North Sea shelves).

Debt problems Salmond also solves in one fell swoop: the British allow the Scots to use the pound sterling, and the independent Edinburgh assumes part of the current British government debt expressed in this currency. If London decides to resist the use of the pound by Edinburgh, the latter is ready to live without London debts: let Britain pay for it itself.

As for the "pugalki" about the EU, then Salmond has nothing to answer about it. The question of the entry of a newly emerged independent country into the European Union will be easily blocked - for example, by Spain. Madrid made an appropriate statement in advance, not wanting a precedent against the background of claims of its own territorial entities, one way or another seeking independence, Catalonia or the Basque Country.

At the end of October, the horror story was introduced into the minds of the masses by the British Home Office. Interior Minister Theresa May said that the declaration of independence of Scotland would create a threat to the security of the United Kingdom: after all, the Scots will have to create their own army and special services, and this will take time. Without the security forces, the authorities of a new independent country cannot even ensure the safety of their own citizens. The threat of terrorism and cyber attacks was also mentioned. As for intelligence, Scotland will not have one.

The Scottish National Party, represented by the same Salmond, answered this question.

Instead of MI5 and GCHQ (the so-called “Center of Government Communications”, whose activities were recently popularized by Comrade Snowden), independent Edinburgh will not only create its own army, but also organize special services, and with minimal costs. As for possible terrorist attacks, Salmond does not consider their risk high: after all, the country will refuse nuclear weapons. In wars similar to those in which Britain participated (for example, the invasion of Iraq), Scotland will not participate. The cost of the defense budget of the country will be expressed in a modest two and a half billion pounds. Britain now spends nearly fifteen times more. Finally, Salmond won’t be crushed by fears about an unsafe life in an independent country: in case of a positive decision of the people, a transitional period to the 2016 of the year is envisaged. During this time, both the national army and the special services will be created.

From the point of view of propaganda, Salmond chose the most suitable time for holding a referendum - September. The referendum will be held exactly after the celebration of the 700 anniversary of the Battle of Bannockburn (23-24 took place on June 1314 of the year and ended in complete defeat of England, and the forces of the parties were unequal: the Scotchmen were 10000, the British were 25000. However, the numerical superiority of the English is historically challenged).

Recent sociological polls do not show an accurate picture of the preferences of the Scots. According to some, only a quarter or a third of the population supports the independence of the country, and according to the results of the others, it is already half or so. Some media outlets point out that the number of supporters of the Scottish secession is slowly but growing.

Undoubtedly, the celebration of the 700 anniversary of the Battle of Bannockburn will generate a powerful wave of patriotic sentiment, against which the number of separatists could increase significantly.

By the way, the Scots separatists also create political and economic horror stories.

Nikola Sturgeon, Deputy First Minister, warned those citizens that they were not supporters of independence about the coming pressure of London. The warning was well thought out in terms of political propaganda.

Through the press, Sturgeon explained to the future referendum participants that, with the Scots negative decision on independence, London would do everything to destroy the security system of Scotland, to weaken social guarantees, to destroy free health care, to cut the budget, etc., the course is proclaimed Panacea for all this on independence.

All this is, in principle, a game of emotions. In fact, the outcome of the vote will decide the issues of benefit - as ordinary Scots understand them for themselves. It is possible that economists will play an important role in promoting both independence and abandoning it. It is these people who are able to convince the Scots whether they need independence or not. But here, too, emotions are rooted in, originating in human expectations ... Once the economist Yegor Gaidar was in charge of reforms in independent Russia. A significant part of the people was led by Chubais and him with “vouchers”. Many believed that they would live richly and happily - just like in the blessed capitalist West, the impoverished and dispossessed part of which suddenly became considered a lie of socialist propaganda. Do Russian people remember the Gaidar period as happy? Not. This is a time of total impoverishment, theft, gangsterism, racketeering, the transformation of the police into a corrupt structure, the collapse of industry and science, hyperinflation, the domination of the ruthless economic ideology of the IMF advisers and the transformation of the unique Soviet society into a herd of individual consumers, terrible in its speed and irreversibility.

The Chinese rightly wish their enemies to live in an era of change. Namely, the changes are waiting for the Scots in the "transition period". The fall in GDP, social instability, rising unemployment, castles on the borders of EU countries, imminent inflation in the event of the introduction of its own currency, political and financial conflicts with London - all this will no longer be a horror story, but an ordinary reality. There are no painless transition periods. And the consequences of independence will be “hiccupped” to Edinburg for a very long time.

Did Ukraine need independence? Did she need Belarus? Or the Central Asian republics? Do the Baltic nations live well now, who, probably, in 15-20 in full force, excluding officials, will leave their homeland and move to work and live in the “developed countries” of Europe?

However, the Soviet Union collapsed completely not the will of the peoples who inhabited it. At the March all-Union referendum 1991, the question “Do you consider it necessary to preserve the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics as a renewed Federation of equal sovereign republics, which will fully guarantee the rights and freedoms of a person of any nationality?” Answered “yes” 76,43% of voters.

Let's go back to Scotland. It is unlikely that its economy will be rescued by the fact that the other day the Lonely Planet guidebook made Scotland one of the best countries to visit in 2014 for tourists. In 2014, of course, everything will be better than in 2013, but then ... When Scotland gained independence, the European Union countries will be closed by borders and visas from it, and tourism will suffer in the first place.

By the way, Salmond and Sturgeon hardly believe in an unconditional victory in a referendum.

It is for this reason that they want to put two questions to the popular vote: “Do you want Scotland’s independence?” And “Do you want more autonomy within the United Kingdom?” However, London insists on including only one issue in the ballot - independence. It is clear from this: Britain is not going to give oil Scotland neither independence nor greater autonomy.
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  1. aszzz888
    aszzz888 11 November 2013 08: 38
    +8
    The fact that the Britons still put sticks in the wheels of Scotland is a fact. But is it a fact that when separated from the Britons, the Scots will gain as much freedom and independence as they want. It is doubtful.
    1. tronin.maxim
      tronin.maxim 11 November 2013 08: 59
      +8
      Who cares what happens to them, fall apart or connect to us is not cold not hot. The main thing is that we do not have this!
      1. Civil
        Civil 11 November 2013 09: 16
        29
        Freedom of Scotland! Do not take in the EU, take in the vehicle! Cancel Visas! William Walesh is not forgotten. Freeeeedom!
        1. Canep
          Canep 11 November 2013 09: 27
          42
          Lavrov needs to go to Edinburgh and talk with the locals about the secession and accession of Scotland to the Customs Union and the Collective Security Treaty Organization, which suddenly burns out. And if they’re throwing some money at this thing.
          Imagine the base of the Navy and the Russian Air Force on the British Isles! Thatcher from the grave will rise to die again from horror.
          1. evgenii67
            evgenii67 11 November 2013 11: 37
            0
            Quote: Canep
            Imagine the base of the Navy and the Russian Air Force on the British Isles! Thatcher from the grave will rise to die again from horror.

            Scots want to get rid of one hemorrhoids "Moreover, if he wins the referendum, Salmond is going to remove nuclear weapons from independent territory and ban them constitutionally. Scotland will be declared a nuclear-free zone." and you offer another. Although the idea is interesting, but in general, because the country is large, it’s better to arm yourself well in your territory so that the borders are REALLY locked, otherwise our planes will disappear in Kamchatka and WHEN WHERE FALLS (lost) ) No need to spray bases abroad, what we have at the proper level to keep + I repeat, to arm well inside the country.
            1. smile
              smile 11 November 2013 17: 31
              -1
              evgenii67
              A person devoid of ambition will not achieve anything, a state like ours (possessing such enemies), closed within its borders and devoid of ambition, is doomed to degradation, and, as a result, to destruction. After the collapse, we already refused that we have interests abroad - by the end of the nineties, it was just right for Russia to ask - "Are you warm, girl, are you warm, blue" ... :)))
            2. edge
              edge 12 November 2013 03: 02
              0
              Quote: evgenii67
              Scots want to get rid of one hemorrhoids

              but there will still be one association .... Scotland, Ireland, Wales.
          2. edge
            edge 12 November 2013 02: 59
            0
            Quote: Canep
            And if they’re throwing money at this thing

            yes to organize a naval base, Chamberlain and Churchill's nightmares will come true
          3. KDM-219
            KDM-219 12 November 2013 06: 28
            +1
            yeah, and still put in Scotland s-400 and iskander from Samali pirates)
        2. Shadowcat
          Shadowcat 11 November 2013 10: 14
          +4
          What is the problem? There, Scotland’s northern neighbor just put a bolt on the EU and nothing. Given the location of Scotland in the military strategic with respect to the EU and the US, those who wish to place a military base there will be without any EU and TS.
        3. Egoza
          Egoza 11 November 2013 10: 19
          +4
          Quote: Civil
          Freedom of Scotland! Do not take in the EU, take in the vehicle!

          A very good idea! This is exactly what London does not expect! And, by the way, it would be a great blow to any "European integrators"!
        4. Nogicune
          Nogicune 11 November 2013 14: 37
          +4
          hooray you give a bagpipe hybrid with a balalaika fellow
      2. mirag2
        mirag2 11 November 2013 09: 57
        +3
        The difference is very big, when they feel bad, we feel good!
        The worse they are, the more they spend money, and we are better.
        1. Abracadabra
          Abracadabra 11 November 2013 22: 04
          0
          Oh well ?! :) Are you sure about this? If they (the West?) Feel bad, then where will Putin sell oil and gas? And then who will be worse?
          1. edge
            edge 12 November 2013 03: 06
            0
            Quote: Abra Kadabra
            If they (the West?) Feel bad, then where will Putin sell oil and gas?

            west, otherwise they will freeze, especially since gold and foreign exchange reserves do not disappear anywhere ..... we will return our parcel for a land lease
      3. Wolf 1
        Wolf 1 11 November 2013 11: 00
        +5
        No. The collapse of our long-time geopolitical enemy plays into our hands.
      4. edge
        edge 12 November 2013 02: 56
        0
        Quote: tronin.maxim
        Who cares what happens to them, fall apart or connect to us is not cold not hot

        the difference is big, the collapse of Britain is the destruction of our main enemy that provoked the revolution, the civilian and the WWII. This is the destruction of a world predator, and this should be welcomed by everyone, all over the world ...... Britons are us .... ali everyone.
    2. GELEZNII_KAPUT
      GELEZNII_KAPUT 11 November 2013 09: 37
      +6
      Quote: aszzz888
      The fact that the Britons still put sticks in the wheels of Scotland is a fact. But is it a fact that when separated from the Britons, the Scots will gain as much freedom and independence as they want. It is doubtful.

      The Britons are the Scots, who have been for two thousand years now, either under the Romans or the Germans! Of course, they have a desire to secede, but I’m afraid the Celts will not have enough health. hi
      The photo is gorgeous! laughing
    3. Megatron
      Megatron 11 November 2013 13: 08
      11
      I am glad that the photo is really SCOTTISH, and not tolerant colored pedobes.
      1. Aryan
        Aryan 11 November 2013 13: 42
        +4
        Quote: Megatron
        I am glad that the photo is really SCOTTISH, and not tolerant colored pedobes.


        I saw them others
        not like kaku chalk gibtsan

        would you see my face muzzle
        when I'm in my native lab
        which is in the basement
        where through the narrow windows you can see
        only female heels
        and you don’t even look under the skirt
        not to mention the hair color of their hostesses

        and so I thought that I was a squirrel
        when under those windows marched
        hairy male legs in skirts

        but it turned out that these are fans of a Scottish football club
        came to support their match
        (I don’t remember which clubs fought, not a footbof)

        then our orthodox city buzzed for a long time
        about men in "yupkas"

        but they showed zhёppy on the square
        see at one time it was a psychological attack fellow

        and on
        heard that in due time the scottish highlanders
        so the angles punished their rebellion
        that banned the clan colors of tribal kilts
        yes so the clan clans themselves forgot them
        and after only 100-200 years
        the next king is already Britain
        he himself invented and composed these famous kilt cells

        I can say one thing
        guys are proud and sing like us
        but without massacre
        and honor their culture
        I take off their whiskey pulled
        and they are with me our vodka drinks

        one hurt
        I'm talking about theirs Burns
        but they don’t care about Pushkin to me what
        1. Ruslan67
          Ruslan67 12 November 2013 01: 48
          +2
          Quote: Aryan
          I'm talking about theirs Burns
          but they don’t care about Pushkin to me

          Here, unfortunately, a complete misunderstanding - Burns can be perceived either in the original but this is aerobatics good or translated by Marshak. But Pushkin in Scottish what not sure if there is any request
    4. alone
      alone 11 November 2013 20: 32
      +1
      Quote: aszzz888
      The fact that the Britons still put sticks in the wheels of Scotland is a fact. But is it a fact that when separated from the Britons, the Scots will gain as much freedom and independence as they want. It is doubtful.


      even canada and australia are independent in principle de facto. de jure these countries are considered possessions of the English throne. The English are cunning in politics and the collapse of the country will not be allowed.
    5. Megatron
      Megatron 11 November 2013 21: 35
      0
      By the way, regarding the film Braveheart: Mel Gibson, already mentioned here, is Irish by descent, so I think the topic of the struggle for independence is very close to him. That's why he played it.
      1. Aryan
        Aryan 11 November 2013 21: 49
        0
        I apologize for being rude but he is this struggle for the independence of his people
        in Hollywood for * ral
        and his other films are not a cake either
        about the same "conquest of the Indians" wanted to surpass Tarantino in blood?
        And what did he do with his Slavic wife?
        And for his Passion of Christ, I will knock him separately in the face in person
        I think that to him to the psychiatrist and not to the TV

        and so that we do not meet on his way there angry
  2. a52333
    a52333 11 November 2013 08: 41
    +5
    Pancake compote !! Wait another year! And then I already dreamed. Pichalka. recourse
  3. svskor80
    svskor80 11 November 2013 08: 41
    +5
    The tale of a bunch of branches is the same for everyone, one breaks easily, together is much harder. But the Scots have a good tooth for the British, since the question arose in general in today's tolerant times.
  4. makarov
    makarov 11 November 2013 08: 45
    +3
    Let them understand. Maybe the Scots will have their comrade Mugabe, then he will drink the blood from the Angles.
  5. Alikovo
    Alikovo 11 November 2013 08: 49
    +6
    the separation of Scotland will have negative consequences for the UK.
  6. Bigship
    Bigship 11 November 2013 09: 12
    +6
    Scottish branch will have negative consequences for all Europe.
    Here such a separatist compote will begin to seethe in old Europe, which will not seem like a little. Examples are far to go: in Spain - Basques, in France - Corsica, in Italy - the League of the North, etc. Many hidden activists will want to take a sip of such a "compote".
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 11 November 2013 13: 49
      +7
      Quote: BigShip
      The separation of Scotland will have negative consequences for the whole of Europe.
      Here such a separatist compote will begin to seethe in the old Europe, which will not seem enough.


      That is, Kosovo can be separated from Serbia, but if Scotland becomes independent so immediately in Europe, separatism will bloom violently?

      Like old George Orwell wrote:
      - all animals are equal, but some are more equal?
    2. illarion
      illarion 12 November 2013 16: 43
      0
      They want power! But they won’t win the referendum. People don’t need upheavals. And our referendum for the union showed it. Therefore, we met in B. Pushcha. Although no one authorized these guys.
  7. Standard Oil
    Standard Oil 11 November 2013 09: 39
    +3
    Come on, so that in the "lair of evil" this happened, maybe this is another game? What is Great Britain without Scotland, now devoid of its former imperial power, Scotland for the British is the last bastion, after which there will only be intensive Islamization and transformation into a natural sultanate , and what, after all, it is necessary to tolerately replace the word "kingdom" that offends the Arabs with "sultanate" and everyone will be happy. soon there will be no more, Germany, France, Great Britain, Spain, etc. have probably 30 percent Islamized and Arabized, and with such tolerance and love for gays and other dead ends of evolution, in 10 years the ratio will be 50/50, and after another 10 the next gay parade, marching aras will notice that there are not touching Europeans with rainbow flags around, but an angry crowd in hijabs, and it will come to them that they are a minority already at home.this will remain the only country with traditional values, though surrounded by Arabs and Chinese. What to do?
    1. zvereok
      zvereok 11 November 2013 12: 13
      +2
      Quote: Standard Oil
      Only now Russia will remain the only country with traditional values, though surrounded by Arabs and Chinese. What should I do?


      And what is good with the Asians?

      PS: All this is good, but when will they put Serdyukov?
    2. Shur
      Shur 11 November 2013 20: 50
      0
      Of course turn green, everything is predictable. The first France will drown. Let them atone for all their crusades and colonization. Violence returns with violence. Many will inevitably come to Russia, back to their ancestral home.
    3. Abracadabra
      Abracadabra 11 November 2013 22: 24
      0
      I have never met a single comment from the Europeans who would be happy about the problems of Russia, wish it harm, or consider it their enemy. I understand that the zombie hunter probably acts on the subconscious, but after all there is also the Internet, doesn’t it even pull you to check this or that info? Every second commentary about Europe is about fagots, a geyrop, or screams about its alleged Islamization .. In Germany, 81mio, of which about 5mio Muslims (3 mio Turks), where is 30%? There are a lot of Muslims, in percentage terms, in France, about 9%, but this is not surprising for those who know history, why so .. And how many Muslims in Russia? I’ll upset you, but there are as many villages in Russia as in Europe, Asia, or elsewhere, they are the same everywhere, 6-8% of the population. There is no reason to fear for Europe and its demographic situation, and no one has any effect on it. But in Russia, in addition to fag, there is an even greater problem of alcoholism and drug addiction, that today a huge number of girls can not find a partner, most of them rather want to leave.
  8. fennekRUS
    fennekRUS 11 November 2013 09: 47
    +4
    Verily, history teaches us that it teaches nothing.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  9. Fuzeler
    Fuzeler 11 November 2013 10: 22
    +5
    "... The centuries could not break us,
    But the traitor sold us
    To opponents of their native land
    For a handful of despicable money.

    We have become English more than once
    In the battles they dulled
    But gold in us
    We bought it at the market .... "

    Robert Burns Scottish Glory. My favorite poet, by the way)).

    In fact, it amazes me that the British taught us that, if some people of the USSR want freedom, then we must give it immediately (remember their flirting with the Chechen separatists, like Maskhadov in London in the 90s, or how Now some militants are immune from extradition). However, the British themselves do not want to give freedom to anyone.
    By the way, after all, a national referendum is the main and main expression of democracy, i.e. that for so long and hard they, together with the USA and NATO, defend all over the world.
  10. Fuzeler
    Fuzeler 11 November 2013 10: 22
    +2
    "... The centuries could not break us,
    But the traitor sold us
    To opponents of their native land
    For a handful of despicable money.

    We have become English more than once
    In the battles they dulled
    But gold in us
    We bought it at the market .... "

    Robert Burns Scottish Glory. My favorite poet, by the way)).

    In fact, it surprises me that the British taught us that, if some people of the USSR or the Russian Federation want freedom, then we must give it immediately (remember their flirting with the Chechen separatists, like Maskhadov went to London in the 90s, or as now some militants are immune from extradition). However, the British themselves do not want to give freedom to anyone.
    By the way, after all, a national referendum is the main and main expression of democracy, i.e. that for so long and hard they, together with the USA and NATO, defend all over the world.
  11. Yun Klob
    Yun Klob 11 November 2013 10: 35
    0
    Some Ben Ladan’s heir can help Scotland secede simply by publicly prohibiting her from doing so.
  12. Migari
    Migari 11 November 2013 10: 36
    +1
    Independence is a good thing, only not everyone can use it for the benefit of the people, we have enough examples after the collapse of the Union.
  13. Hort
    Hort 11 November 2013 10: 48
    +1
    And let them separate, and we will accept them in the CU and CSTO. In revenge for the deployment of missile defense in Romania =)
  14. Grbear
    Grbear 11 November 2013 11: 05
    -1
    God works in mysterious ways.
    For a year, Salmond or Sturgeon will drop a mug of ale on their leg and die from blood loss. Or what kind of misfortune.
    London will not miss the Celts. Definitely stop .
  15. Vorchun
    Vorchun 11 November 2013 11: 07
    0
    Quote: hort
    And let them separate, and we will accept them in the CU and CSTO. In revenge for the deployment of missile defense in Romania =)


    Yeah, and instruct Iskander there. laughing
  16. ed65b
    ed65b 11 November 2013 11: 11
    +7
    Correctly enough the Scots will be enough under the heel of the English. freedom of Scotland, Ireland and all peoples enslaved by the British.
  17. genisis
    genisis 11 November 2013 12: 12
    -7
    And, mind you, it never occurs to any British person to persuade the Scots to this or that decision by military means. Only through negotiations and dialogue. The "most tolerant in the world" zakavturkas, like their Anatolian brothers, would do well to learn - Sumgait 88, Baku 90, the shooting of peaceful Stepanakert from BM-21 ...
    1. zvereok
      zvereok 11 November 2013 12: 16
      +6
      Quote: genisis
      And, mind you, it never occurs to any British person to persuade the Scots to this or that decision by military means. Only through negotiations and dialogue. The "most tolerant" zakavturkas in the world, like their Anatolian brothers, would do well to learn - Sumgait 88, Baku 90 ...


      Does the IRA abbreviation say nothing to you?

      PS: All this is good, but when will they put Serdyukov?
      1. Karlsonn
        Karlsonn 11 November 2013 13: 57
        +4
        Quote: zvereok

        Does the IRA abbreviation say nothing to you?


        Welcome hi .
        Obviously he doesn’t speak, and the comrade did not hear about the last major attack by the IRA, which was launched on October 5 of the year 2010.

        1. SSR
          SSR 11 November 2013 22: 01
          +1
          genisis apparently doesn’t even know how the British genocide peoples and apparently does not know that for example the British completely destroyed the inhabitants of Tasmania
          If you shoot the natives like a raven is shot in some countries, then the [native] population should be greatly reduced over time, ”Robert Knox wrote in his“ philosophical study of the effects of race. ” Alan Moorehead described the fatal changes that befell Australia: “In Sydney, wild tribes were overthrown. In Tasmania, they were completely exterminated ... by settlers ... and convicts ... they were all eager to get land, and none of them was going to let Black prevent it.

          I won’t talk about others either. Let him broaden his horizons.
        2. Altona
          Altona 11 November 2013 22: 21
          +1
          It would be better to put a video of the rock group "Autograph" "Ireland-Ulster" ...

          Here the fire of conflagration will not warm you!
          PROHIBITED! NOT!
    2. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 11 November 2013 13: 52
      +7
      Quote: genisis
      And, mind you, none of the Britons comes to mind by military means to persuade the Scots to a particular decision.


      Present a history book?
      1. genisis
        genisis 11 November 2013 15: 15
        -3
        And what side of the IRA to Scotland ???
        And the funny picture about the Irish is what?
        Those. over 55 years of Irish people in the world has decreased by 3,5 million people?
        Shaved all of them killed?
        And those who emigrated to the USA are counted? Or were they killed too?
        1. Karlsonn
          Karlsonn 11 November 2013 15: 41
          +5
          Quote: genisis
          And what side of the IRA to Scotland ???


          The IRA militants are just like everybody else in England, and the British government came up with the idea of ​​using military force against the citizens of their country.


          Quote: genisis
          And the funny picture about the Irish is what?
          Those. over 55 years of Irish people in the world has decreased by 3,5 million people?


          You may not be aware, but as a result of the systematic and destructive economic policy of Great Britain, the famine in 1845-1849 years was provoked, as a result of which, according to various sources, people died from 500 000 to 1 500 000.

          Quote: genisis
          Shaved all of them killed?


          Well, when you learn what the "Fenian Movement" is, give yourself the trouble to learn about the uprising of 1867 - the questions will be different.


          Quote: genisis
          And those who emigrated to the USA are counted? Or were they killed too?


          In the United States, ships with the Irish were called "floating coffins", the average mortality was something like this:
          - Of the 100 000 people, 16-17 000 died during the voyage.

          And still buy yourself a history book! wink
          1. SSR
            SSR 11 November 2013 22: 14
            0
            And so buy yourself a history book

            The textbook will not help him anymore, he mastered the Internet and the search for information at the level of tyranny and that's enough.
          2. Altona
            Altona 12 November 2013 18: 42
            +2
            The conflict in Ulster is not ethnic, but inter-confessional in nature, even so, let's say inter-Christian ... This is a conflict between Catholics and Protestants, and this conflict is long-standing and the Protestants in it, in my opinion, are initially wrong ... -new ... In general, the challenges faced by British society in the 70-80s of the last century are very interesting ... In addition to interethnic, inter-religious conflicts, trade union and youth riots, the rapid fall of industrial cities into poverty, the development of a counterculture in the form of punk and grunge, the war in the Falklands ... And a lot of other things, including the long-term "TV series" with the People's Princess Diana ... The British Empire in military terms is more and more like an old sick dog, it seems there are teeth, but the grip is not the same. ..Yes, and more and more looks like an old intriguer than a fighter ...
        2. Shur
          Shur 11 November 2013 21: 11
          0
          One-sided thinking is the first sign of unwillingness to realize reality.
        3. Shur
          Shur 11 November 2013 21: 22
          +2
          You will also affirm the idea that the Americans "freed" their red-skinned "brothers and sisters", and more argumentation. By the way, on top of that, you don't know where the Slavs who inhabited the territory of the European countries went:
          Oldenburg is a Slavic Starograd (Starigard).
          Demmin - Dymin.
          Mecklenburg - formerly called Rarog (Rerik), later - Mikulin Bor.
          Schwerin - Bodrich Beast.
          Ratzeburg - the ancient city of warriors - Ratibor.
          Brandenburg - Branibor.
          Dresden - Drozdyany.
          Leipzig - Lipsk, Lipetsk.
          Breslau - Breslavl.
          Chemnitz - Kamenitsa.
          Roslau - Rusislava.
          Prilvice - Prilebitsa.
          Regensburg - Rezno.
          Meissen - Mishno.
          A sprout is the sprout.
          Merseburg - Mezhibor
          Elba Laba River
          modern German cities, the ancient names of which you already guess: Lubeck, Bremen, Weiden, Lübben, Torgau, Klutz, Ribnitz, Karov, Teterov, Malkhin, Mirov, Rossov, Kirits, Beskov, Kamyanets, Lebau, Zebnits, etc. ., etc. It is appropriate to add here that the Austrian capital Vienna is the Slavic Vindeboz, and the city of Tsvetl is Svetla. Austria itself was called before the Germanization the Principality of Ostria! And where are the people ??? Slavic Slavs for example?
          “These Slavs occupied a vast territory from the mouth of the Laba (Elba) and its tributary, the Sala (Zale) in the West, to the Odra (Vodra, Oder) in the east, from the Ore Mountains in the south and to the Baltic Sea in the north. Thus, the lands of the Polabian Slavs covered at least one third of the modern German state. , who lived along the southern coast of the Baltic Sea, approximately from the estuary of the Odra to the mouth of the Vistula, and in the south, along the Notecha River, bordering on Polish tribes. The Germans traditionally called and still call the original, indigenous Slavic population of Germany "Wendy."
          1. datur
            datur 12 November 2013 13: 05
            0
            Quote: Shur
            You will also affirm the idea that the Americans "freed" their red-skinned "brothers and sisters", and more argumentation. By the way, on top of that, you don't know where the Slavs who inhabited the territory of the European countries went:
            Oldenburg is a Slavic Starograd (Starigard).
            Demmin - Dymin.
            Mecklenburg - formerly called Rarog (Rerik), later - Mikulin Bor.
            Schwerin - Bodrich Beast.
            Ratzeburg - the ancient city of warriors - Ratibor.
            Brandenburg - Branibor.
            Dresden - Drozdyany.
            Leipzig - Lipsk, Lipetsk.
            Breslau - Breslavl.
            Chemnitz - Kamenitsa.
            Roslau - Rusislava.
            Prilvice - Prilebitsa.
            Regensburg - Rezno.
            Meissen - Mishno.
            A sprout is the sprout.
            Merseburg - Mezhibor
            Elba Laba River
            modern German cities, the ancient names of which you already guess: Lubeck, Bremen, Weiden, Lübben, Torgau, Klutz, Ribnitz, Karov, Teterov, Malkhin, Mirov, Rossov, Kirits, Beskov, Kamyanets, Lebau, Zebnits, etc. ., etc. It is appropriate to add here that the Austrian capital Vienna is the Slavic Vindeboz, and the city of Tsvetl is Svetla. Austria itself was called before the Germanization the Principality of Ostria! And where are the people ??? Slavic Slavs for example?
            “These Slavs occupied a vast territory from the mouth of the Laba (Elba) and its tributary, the Sala (Zale) in the West, to the Odra (Vodra, Oder) in the east, from the Ore Mountains in the south and to the Baltic Sea in the north. Thus, the lands of the Polabian Slavs covered at least one third of the modern German state. , who lived along the southern coast of the Baltic Sea, approximately from the estuary of the Odra to the mouth of the Vistula, and in the south, along the Notecha River, bordering on Polish tribes. The Germans traditionally called and still call the original, indigenous Slavic population of Germany "Wendy."

            set + but my friend do not smoke any more rubbish !!! wink COGNAC tastier and better !!! laughing
        4. Shur
          Shur 11 November 2013 21: 28
          0
          "Kind" Anglo-Saxons know how to reduce the population that is not pleasing to their civilization plans.
        5. Skuto
          Skuto 11 November 2013 21: 29
          +1
          The main handwriting of the IRA is a telephone warning for 90 minutes before the explosion of a car filled with explosives, which reduced the possibility of human casualties, but served as a demonstration of power. One of the main suppliers of weapons for the IRA was Libya. The main target of the IRA were British Army soldiers, police officers and judges.

          This is relatively noble, at least in comparison with Wahhabi filth.
          1. zvereok
            zvereok 13 November 2013 16: 29
            0
            at least in comparison with the Wahhabi scum.

            Saudi.

            PS: All this is good, but when will they put Serdyukov?
        6. SSR
          SSR 11 November 2013 22: 09
          +1
          Quote: genisis
          And what side of the IRA to Scotland ???
          And the funny picture about the Irish is what?
          Those. over 55 years of Irish people in the world has decreased by 3,5 million people?
          Shaved all of them killed?
          And those who emigrated to the USA are counted? Or were they killed too?

          Your post is ridiculous and not a picture, do you even know something or something? Do you know how the British starved the Irish to genocide? How did the Boers exterminate (by the way the concentration camps of their invention), how did they destroy the Aboriginal people of America to tell you too? How can Indians say genocide in India? tell how the Chinese opium genocide?
          In general, as they say - learn the mat part
    3. Grandson of Veteran
      Grandson of Veteran 11 November 2013 15: 24
      +1
      “The country's membership in NATO is also questionable.
      Questionable and the participation of Scotland in the UN Security Council.
      Edinburgh will be denied a British currency - pound sterling.
      The UK Postal Service will not serve "independent" Scotland.
      Scots are even frightened by the introduction of huge charges for cellular roaming. "
      Cool, huh? And these people are yelling to the whole world that we have arranged a trade war for Ukraine?!? Is this in your opinion, "dialogue and negotiations" ???
      1. genisis
        genisis 11 November 2013 15: 31
        0
        Well, certainly not shelling the city at home. I drew a parallel between the events of the withdrawal of Nagorno-Karabakh from the Azerbaijan SSR and the withdrawal of Scotland from United Kingdom. The difference, as they say, is on the face.
        1. SSR
          SSR 11 November 2013 22: 21
          0
          Quote: genisis
          Well, certainly not shelling the city at home. I drew a parallel between the events of the withdrawal of Nagorno-Karabakh from the Azerbaijan SSR and the withdrawal of Scotland from United Kingdom. The difference, as they say, is on the face.

          The parallel, unfortunately, is in the face ....... You are talking about Karabakh and the city, and you didn’t even think about the conflicts in all parts of the USSR at that time. Transnistria, Central Asia, the Baltic states, the Caucasus, you don’t even know that the peoples in referenda 75% voted in favor of preserving the USSR. In general, the math part is to teach and to teach again and maybe then the petiole will disappear.
    4. Altona
      Altona 11 November 2013 22: 24
      +1
      You somehow forgot about the Boer War ... How to persuade by military means towards that, and not another solution ...
    5. datur
      datur 12 November 2013 13: 01
      0
      [quote = genisis] And, mind you, it never occurs to any British person to militarily persuade the Scots to make one decision or another. Only through negotiations and dialogue. The "most tolerant in the world" zakavturkas, like their Anatolian brothers, would not hurt to learn - Sumgait 88, Baku 90, the shooting of peaceful Stepanakert from BM-21 ... [the only small-shavens from the "old Europe" who were not stupid in into it !! or in her !! --- the question why? - maybe because they know what it will be? !!! belay wassat
  18. Ahmed Osmanov
    Ahmed Osmanov 11 November 2013 12: 15
    +4
    London will not give Scotland independence - never. There are a number of reasons: economic, military, political. In particular, in the territory of Scotland there are nuclear submarines carrying nuclear weapons (UGM-133A Trident II), and this is one of the foundations of British national security and who does not know, this is a continuation of the US nuclear shield.
    1. smile
      smile 11 November 2013 17: 45
      +2
      Ahmed Osmanov RU
      Unfortunately, I agree. If secession really begins there, the British will go to any lengths to prevent the collapse of the state. Any. Up to the use of troops. And they were never shy about methods. Perhaps, they will start with a personal discrediting of the "leaders", especially since I am convinced that their special services are keeping the separatist comrades under control. And they may end up with shooting - it is not the first time for them to engage in political assassinations both abroad and on their territory.
      1. Ahmed Osmanov
        Ahmed Osmanov 11 November 2013 19: 16
        +3
        Vladimir You quite rightly noticed that their special services are under the control of radical comrades. Anyway, the British are the founders of intelligence, if I'm not mistaken. It was they who helped the Americans create intelligence, and for the first time the British were the head of the OSS (Office of Strategic Services - the progenitor of the CIA). This nation can be discredited as much as you like, but I have no doubt that they are the strongest geopoliticians. A competent vision of geopolitics was a distinctive feature of Great Britain both when they had global influence, holding dozens of colonies in Africa and the Middle East, and right now, but to a lesser extent. As they say size does not matter.
        1. smile
          smile 12 November 2013 00: 36
          0
          Ahmed Osmanov
          I agree completely and unconditionally.
          the only thing about the founders of intelligence ... :))) Intelligence appeared a little earlier than man - when the monkeys were thinking whether to become humans or, well, they don’t care, they already sent a part of the pack to monitor the environment and find out what to eat :)))
          But seriously, the ancient Roman intelligence and the Byzantine one practically didn’t differ much from that. what happened in the 19th century.
          But I repeat, as a whole, by the 19-20th century you are absolutely right.
          1. Day 11
            Day 11 12 November 2013 00: 40
            0
            Volodya is great! Look in PM
  19. The comment was deleted.
  20. Ermak
    Ermak 11 November 2013 12: 26
    +5
    Great Britain is our old geopolitical adversary and enemy. They always supported separatist sentiments in our territories, heated them, brought confusion and sowed discord. And sometimes openly opposed us by military force. So why don’t we support similar movements in the UK itself? Moreover, they do this without hesitation! Therefore: Freedom to the people of Scotland !!! ... (and so on) :)
  21. VadimL
    VadimL 11 November 2013 13: 05
    +2
    Independent Scotland. Is it good or bad? Here it is necessary to clearly distinguish between "good" or "bad" for whom? For Scotland itself? For the UK and the West in general? For us?
    It all depends on what will be the policy of Scotland after separation. If Scotland will build an industrial high-tech neutral state based on the interests of its people and its national identity, then this will be good for Scotland (otherwise Britain will increasingly become a British Caliphate). For Britain, this will be very unpleasant, but not fatal. For us, this is definitely a positive option, both in the political and in the economic sense.
  22. Muadipus
    Muadipus 11 November 2013 13: 50
    0
    The main horror story is both economic and political: an independent Scotland will have to re-apply for EU membership.

    Membership in NATO is also in question.

    Questionable and the participation of Scotland in the UN Security Council.

    Edinburgh will be denied a British currency - pound sterling.

    The UK Postal Service will not serve "independent" Scotland.

    Scared !!!)))
    - Instead of the EU, there is a TS, moreover with a more loyal attitude towards its members.
    - Instead of NATO, there is the CSTO
    - In the Security Council, Russia will put in a word, as recent events show - this is enough.
    - etc. etc.
    - Scotland is in a better position now than the former republics of the USSR. Today there is a lot of experience of a state startup. there are options. you can learn from other people's mistakes.
  23. smart ass
    smart ass 11 November 2013 14: 03
    +5
    Attention is the question of why Russian non-profit organizations in Scotland did not intensify ??? Why don't our media sing about oppressed highlanders ?? Why does Lavrov not escalate the situation ???
    1. Karlsonn
      Karlsonn 11 November 2013 14: 36
      +3
      Quote: Clever man
      Attention is the question of why Russian non-profit organizations in Scotland didn’t become active ??? Why do not they rock the situation ??? Where are the FSB and GRU ???


      A flaw however.

      It is necessary to send here to England such a couple of hundred barges.
  24. Aleksandr2
    Aleksandr2 11 November 2013 15: 47
    +2
    It's time for the English to throw.
  25. Gav-111
    Gav-111 11 November 2013 15: 58
    0
    Quote: Civil
    Freedom of Scotland! Do not take in the EU, take in the vehicle! Cancel Visas! William Walesh is not forgotten. Freeeeedom!

    The Queen's bloody regime oppresses the free highlanders!
  26. EdwardTich68
    EdwardTich68 11 November 2013 17: 14
    +2
    As for fear, do not be afraid.
    As for the UN Security Council - they know that they will not be taken (nuclear weapons will remain in England)
    As for his pound, they have had it for 20 years.
    They are by the way terrible nationalists. I hope that it turns out.
  27. Son
    Son 11 November 2013 19: 57
    +3
    DON'T SPARE MONEY ..! Throw "in the furnace" of the Nezalezhnosti ... Abramovich! Oh, little help (buy) Scotland .. !!!
  28. Son
    Son 11 November 2013 19: 57
    0
    DON'T SPARE MONEY ..! Throw "in the furnace" of the Nezalezhnosti ... Abramovich! Oh, little help (buy) Scotland .. !!!
  29. Altona
    Altona 11 November 2013 20: 21
    +3
    I always support this proud and courageous people in all his endeavors ... It was his sons who brought glory to the British Empire ... In everything! In brilliant literature, in science, in business, in military affairs ... These are great and beautiful people, noble, living in the mountains, among gloomy rocks and modest flowers ... It doesn’t matter to me whether the British kingdom decays or doesn’t decay this is good ... Let people living among gray rocks and crystal streams live happily and as they want!
    1. Sour
      Sour 11 November 2013 20: 31
      +2
      Quote: Altona
      . It was his sons who brought glory to the British Empire ..

      Yes, do not give a damn about the British Empire. The Scottish mercenaries in the 16-17 centuries were willingly and in large numbers in the Moscow military service, at least for this they should be appreciated. Their exploits are known in the battle of Molodi against the Crimean Tatars, in wars against the Poles. Thank you from us for this already.
      1. Altona
        Altona 11 November 2013 20: 57
        +1
        And here are the mercenaries? The Scots also glorified the American army ... The notorious General Douglas MacArthur, for example ... I’m talking about you high, but you are raising some dirt from the bottom ...
        1. Sour
          Sour 11 November 2013 21: 03
          0
          I do not see any dirt.
          Honestly and boldly work out your military bread, choosing a military profession for yourself - no dirt. You stop it.
          Dirt is when they run from the battlefield or refuse to go to it.
          And MacArthur is nobody to me and there is no way to call him. If he was in the Russian service, then, of course, respect. He also worked out his bread, but not for Russia. And I have nothing to thank him for.
          1. Altona
            Altona 11 November 2013 21: 27
            +2
            Honestly and boldly work out your military bread, choosing a military profession for yourself - no dirt. You stop it.
            ----------------------------------
            But not by mercenarism ... At least remember the same Barclay de Tolly ... This is a worthy servant of Russia ... Or Mikhail Yurievich Lermontov ... plus Robert Burns is enough ... hi
            1. Sour
              Sour 11 November 2013 21: 36
              0
              You generally remembered these in vain (except Burns).
              Barclay is a German. It has Scottish roots, but by origin, upbringing, language and Lutheran religion - Ostseey German. He is the same Scot as Pushkin African, Fonvizin German or Miloradovich Serb. Nationality is not determined by where your great-great-grandfather lived.
              Therefore, Mikhail Yuryevich is Russian, and not a Scotsman even once.
              And Robbie Burns, like MacArthur, is a foreigner to me in foreign service.
              1. Altona
                Altona 11 November 2013 21: 43
                +1
                Well, why in vain? I’ve spoken about the roots ... Good seed has matured on healthy soil ... The roots are Scottish, and the shoots are both Russian and German ... Yes, whatever ... It is strange to hear about foreign immigrants when a person composes poems about his homeland ...
                1. Sour
                  Sour 11 November 2013 21: 53
                  0
                  Burns read little and only in translation. Therefore, I cannot appreciate it. Here "Faust" or "Di fane hoh" I will easily appreciate as a lover of poetry. Ich weiss genug Deutsch. I don't speak English.
                  And to judge a person’s nationality by roots is a golem racisi. Strongly against this, otherwise Suvorov will have to be recognized as not entirely Russian.
                  This is despite the fact that I myself have no non-Russian (by blood) relatives at all. Even distant and second cousins. But I don't define nationality by "roots".
                  1. Altona
                    Altona 11 November 2013 22: 00
                    +1
                    And to judge a person’s nationality by roots is a golem racisi. Strongly against this, otherwise Suvorov will have to be recognized as not entirely Russian.
                    -----------------------
                    There was not a word about racism at all ... Okay, they didn’t understand and didn’t understand ... Poems can be read in translation, you can’t strain anything with the original ... It’s very touching and soulful, some poems seem to have come out of our lives. ..
  30. Sour
    Sour 11 November 2013 20: 25
    +1
    It will not be worse for the Scots, the author is wrong.
    1) It is on the Scottish shelf that the largest remains of North Sea oil are.
    2) They will have miserable military expenses.
    3) Social, too, will be scanty if they put a barrier to blacks and Pakistanis, who are full in England.
    It is all of these that fuel Scottish separatism. He was always, but blossomed right now, and not by chance
  31. Altona
    Altona 11 November 2013 20: 26
    +2
    SCOTTISH GLORY poems by Robert Burns



    Say goodbye forever, Scotland
    With your ancient glory.
    The name is goodbye
    Majestic homeland!

    Where tweed sweeps into the ocean
    And Sark in the sand flows, -
    Now the possessions of the British,
    Provinces border.

    Centuries could not break us
    But the traitor sold us
    To opponents of their native land
    For a handful of despicable money.

    We have become English more than once
    In the battles they dulled
    But gold in us
    Bought on the market.

    What a pity I didn’t fall in battle
    When the enemy was fought
    For honor and homeland
    Our proud Bruce, Wallace.

    But ten times in the last hour
    I will say without hiding:
    The curse of the betrayer
    A fraudulent gang!
  32. The comment was deleted.
  33. GUSAR
    GUSAR 11 November 2013 20: 52
    0
    Yes there will be no independence
  34. Altona
    Altona 11 November 2013 21: 35
    +1
    To be honest, the British horror stories for Scotland are like a naked butt for a hedgehog ... The British budget will lose a lot of income from such a disconnection ... Scots are unlikely to be threatened in the near future ... They will probably find allies who are British dominance is already sick and, in addition, the Scottish lobby in the United States has no less influence than the Jewish ...
  35. Altona
    Altona 11 November 2013 22: 08
    +2
    If we take into account that a country with the cross of St. Andrew on the flag may hypothetically appear on the world map, then this event can only be welcomed ...
  36. Peter76
    Peter76 12 November 2013 09: 57
    +2
    The separation of Scotland, the weakening of the centuries-old enemy of Russia, long live the separation!))
  37. Marek Rozny
    Marek Rozny 12 November 2013 12: 33
    0
    The Russian Foreign Ministry should express concern that the British authorities ignore the opinion of the country's inhabitants, do not respect human rights, and violate the principles of self-determination of the nation. Friiiiiidooooom! Scotland! Urine Urine!
  38. Stasi
    Stasi 12 November 2013 13: 29
    +1
    The problem of separatism in the West is becoming more acute. The West collapsed the USSR skillfully playing on separatist sentiments and buying all the local princes by false promises that were never fulfilled. I think that we should pay the West with the same coin supporting the separatists. As the saying goes, hit the enemy with his own weapons. Of course, the British will fix all sorts of obstacles to the Scots, right down to the use of force.